Not a very well designed study
I could send a twin to Patagonia for example and get similar results
Very intersting. I am just amazed the brains that think of going into space and studying such interesting topics. Way to go guys. Way to go
7
I’m wondering why, if someone is in outer space for a year, would they need a flu shot? How could they possibly be exposed to the flu virus up there?
2
Measuring his response to antigenic challenge
Typical measure of immune responsiveness
4
He looks older than his twin.
1
NASA should do two things:
1. protect our satellites and national security from other nations
2. protect earth from being hit by an asteroid etc.
The billions saved could change the Earth and these brilliant scientists could be involved with advancing technology and science for Earth and human needs.
3
The beauty of evolution. No surprises there, his body responded to his environment. Plus, he’s no spring chicken.
3
As reported "Susan Bailey, a cancer biologist at Colorado State University and a co-author of the new study. “We can say that, as best as we can tell, these changes are due to spaceflight.” "
However there's another variable: isolation. A control for this experiment would have been to have a third person on earth in (semi) isolation. I would expect one's mental state and cognitive skills would be affected.
8
And to think that all of this complexity and mystery in our selves and the entire universe was created by some magical being in just a week, or slightly less.
And this Being put all these tricks and diversions in the plan to make us think other wise, such as some believing there may actually be an evolutionary process.
And we were even left a manual to follow – literally, so that we don't have to ask any questions.
It seems clear that the genome was simply designed to confound us. Also, we clearly are off off off on the long term dating of objects from the past, because interpreters of the manual tell us it is not possible for things to be so old, because the manual says so.
And this is just the tip of the iceberg of all the infallible knowledge in the manual.
No wonder the Being needed rest on the last day of the week, that is a lot to accomplish.
3
This article is full of “maybes” from “experts” that add zilch to the basic facts reported.
I am very excited about the new U.S. planned manned Moon mission, but given the very high costs to the astronauts' health and financially to the taxpayers, with so many people on Earth in dire need of basic amenities, it seems that proponents of humans engaging in space travel might do well to state the urgency to humanity to engage in space travel at this point in human history. It should be more than it's there and we must explore it now. I have not heard of one good reason for new activity. Perhaps, a really good one exists. For instance, why must humans engage in this activity now and not a million years from now when the Sun has a few billion of years left of life?
23
@Isle. There is always a good excuse for not doing everything.
10
For the resources required for human habitation on Mars, particularly with NASA/Boeing/LockMart in charge, we could spend the same on rehabilitating the deserts on Earth.
3
While this is fascinating, it is not a new story. I read this long ago. Why wasn't it reported when it first came out?
1
"Decline in cognitive test scores": after 340 days without Fox News, is that a surprise?
4
They should send up his twin brother to see what happens. This may verify the finding very well. And if they are different that would also be very useful data.
I have a few takeaways after reading this article.
First: We better cherish this planet, make sure we protect it as the precious gift that It is. We've been looking up in the skies for a long time and have not found a planet similar to ours.
Second: For those who were planning to destroy this planet and move to another one , well apparently when they'll reach the new planet, they might have the intelligence of a monkey (a kind of reverse evolution if we can call it that way).
Third: The Earth is all we've got.
79
Geez!! This proves it!! Human beings did NOT evolve in outer space!! Stop the presses!!
9
There is a finite amount of time, money and human energy.
While some may find "space" and it's adventures fascinating...
even helpful at a scientific level, I find it ridiculously wasteful in the face of the scientific challenges right here on the ground and in the ocean.
Speaking of the latter, we have barely explored our own planet and especially the biggest portion of it. That research would be more meaningful and equally challenging. What lies below in the sea continues to surprise us. Yet we are forever looking up.
On a very basic and practical level, I would prefer that NASA money and Jeff's money and Elon's money be devoted to:
1. Cleaning up the nation sized swirling trash messes in our oceans.
2. Establishing international standards and time frame goals for reducing our pollution of our lands>waterways>lakes>oceans.
3. Establish an international court to enforce such rules with the ability to apply sanctions and potentially stop all commerce with repeat offenders. A Hague for the planet.
That's just the beginning. Simultaneously, we need to address the endless production of junk based on commercial goals that employ planned obselesance - rather than reuse of materials and devices.
Let's get honest about the damage we are doing at home. We don't deserve to leave this planet until we clean up our shameful disgusting act.
8
"Some considered the risks manageable, while others wondered whether it would ever be safe for astronauts to take long journeys to Mars or beyond."
Then maybe we should take care of the one beautiful, life-giving planet that we have and dispense with this ridiculous notion of colonizing outer space once we destroy our only home.
9
In all the years I've been a sort of amateur scientist, the one thing I've learned is that when you learn the answer to a question you find your self with a new series of questions that need answering. The cycle repeats itself continuously. So far I haven't found anything resembling an ultimate answer.
That might be what makes science so much fun
7
Can they rotate the space station along an axis to create a centrifugal (gravitational) force? This would put some strain upon the body as gravity does. It could be done periodically with a "gravity" area with flat floors on the perimeter.
4
our terrestrially evolved pampas running, ocean sailing, mountain climbing, sunshine dancing body is not adapted to prolonged habitation in a weightless, technical and in every word artificial environment resembling a sardine can.
who knew?
8
This article states an obvious fact about a man in space: “Three years after Mr. Kelly, 55, returned to Earth, NASA researchers reported that his body experienced a vast number of changes while in orbit.”
It’s an obvious fact that a Homo Sapiens isn’t built to travel in outer space, therefore he quickly changes to adapt to less gravity and close quarters. But these changes are done too quickly therefore his body doesn’t have time to adjust.
It took a Homo Sapiens 250,000 years to adjust to Earth’s gravity and ample spaces. It took him a long time to learn to walk long distances on two legs, while pulled down by gravity. Then it took the right bone density, the right bone cell, the right heartbeat, & the right blood cell to defy Earth’s gravity.
Nonetheless, it took just 1 year for astronaut Kelly to change 250,000 years of evolution. That’s going over the “speed-limit” allowed by a Homo Sapiens pace of evolution!
4
Isn't it possible that long-term travel in general affects the body in unpredictable ways, wherever it takes place? Think of the months or years-long journeys of the past. What if our ancient ancestors had said, "Nah, we're not walking out of Africa, it might be stressful, or hurt our cognitive abilities." Although they certainly couldn't have put it that way, they surely understood the journey to be a risk. Regardless, they didn't let that stop them, and neither should we.
5
I surely hope that this is not one of the early steps of a duex ex machina-techno approach to the quagmire humans have created for ourselves. Trashing ( also known as "terraforming") one planet at a time will turn out to be an even worse solution than the problem it's supposed to solve.
That aside, fascinating results.
2
This is an amazing and unique study. It is possible that the limited stimuli in space is responsible for the cognitive changes. Here on earth out range of encounters is much greater than in space. Because of the uniqueness of the space experience, I imagine that cognitive abilities should at first increase and as the novelty wears off, then the decrease in cognitive ability might occur. We thrive on novelty. It feeds our economy.
4
The changes in genes are not merely limited to deformations resulting in cancer.
The changes also relate to the processes the deformed genes normally regulate. Who knows where this line, or lines, of research will lead?
This research is very exciting.
3
While reading this wonderful article, I could almost feel Gene Roddenberry in the room, taking notes for another "Star Trek" sequel. This stuff is what makes great reading while inspiring one's imagination.
The stories Astronaut Scott Kelly could tell . . . so cool.
A very sincere and deep thank you.
4
@Marge Keller Gene Rodenberry had a very successful imagination that caught the eyes of a lot of people. The problem with pop imagination is that it is subject to group think as the path of likely success. That is not necessarily the case. Any evidence of sub space communication or the existence of warp speed is scant and questionable. Even if these things do exist, they might not be of any practical use.
2
@GS
I realize and understand what you stated GS.
I just loved his imagination and often wonder if he were still alive, how much more interesting today's events could have inspired his unique brain and brand of fantasy.
Thanks for bringing me back earth with your logic and insight.
2
Until we can at least replicate gravity long space journeys will remain science fiction unless they are manned by robots.
5
What a fascinating story and well written article by Carl Zimmer! I had no idea that Mark Kelly had a twin, much less a twin who circled the Earth for 340 days.
But while I found myself on the edge of my chair while reading this, I also found myself worrying about Scott Kelly's health, both mental and physical. I'm so glad the topic of his exposure to radiation was touched upon because I wonder and worry if his cells "may start growing uncontrollably — “taking steps on the road to cancer."
The photo of the Kelly brothers standing, facing each other was pretty interesting. Scott's face looked fuller and actually YOUNGER than his brother, Mark.
I think what Scott was willing to do and risk for the sake of science is extraordinary and extremely brave. I wish him the very best of good health. I certainly hope that ALL of his current and long term medical scenarios will continue to be covered and paid in full by NASA. After, isn't that the very least they can do for this exceptionally courageous astronaut?
I see another Tom Hanks movie in the works about this story and these incredible brothers.
8
Inspiring story. Thank you NYTimes, Mark, Scott and NASA.
Now slow down. Build a high tech moon station with round trip crews to work on sustainable farming, air quality etc with medical facilities and comfortable social conveniences. Include a station to launch low gravity liftoff vehicles for exploration with multiple stations between goals to provide leapfrogging to further outposts.
Trade the design of "capsules" at the top of giant propulsion engines (Rockets) with low and zero gravity transports between outposts (Space ships) capable of carrying smaller landing and exploratory vehicles.
Much of the preliminary work can be done using robotics.
2
There were conjectures on radiation induced changes in the study. There were no comments on the obvious factor.
Zero G for the duration! What effect did being weightless have. Simple resistance exercises are not equivalent to 24/7 Earth.
Another example of looking for the 'weird' solution instead the simple.
First Principles.
1
@P.C.Chapman There were a number of temporary changes Kelly experienced that most likely were caused, at least in part, by zero gravity. The mutations that Kelly gained have a distinctive signature indicating that they're most likely caused by ionizing radiation. (Kelly's mutations include a lot of flipped sections of DNA, for example, which radiation causes but not other factors.)
5
I do not know any good reason for sending humans into space when automated machines have greater sensory and analytic power. Why send a person when we can send sensors and actuators that do a better job and do not require elaborate human life support systems? This study reinforces my opinion because it shows again the deleterious effects of living in space for organisms long adapted to the web of life on earth. I think understanding the universe beyond our living planet is a great scientific and technical endeavor. Also, it has in the past and can in the future bring many practical advantages to life on earth. But none of the science or advantages are dependent on a human passenger sitting in the automated machine that maneuvers and gathers the information that it communicates back to this world.
4
Really interesting. Obviously a massively not-controlled experiment (as the researches note) - the point about Kelly doing media tours and being exhausted and so forth is just one of the complicating factors.
But still an important first step. High fives to the selfless, big-thinking Kelly brothers.
2
Shielding should be an integral part of the design of every habitat, vehicle and article of clothing intended for use beyond the earth's atmosphere and magnetosphere. Hydrogenated boron nitride nanotubes can be turned into a strong, flexible radiation barrier suitable for both structures and garments. I hope to see NASA and private space organizations make extensive use of hydrogenated BNNTs in the near future, and to make the development of new radiation protections a top priority going forward.
2
@SSG Any long term trip would require water. Storing the water in a sheath around the living space would also help to decrease the radiation exposure and would not require any extra items to be brought on board.
I am not familiar with the properties of boron nitride except that it is very hard. Perhaps hydrated BN tubes rather than hydrogenated would serve a dual purpose of helping to protect from impact in space as well as water storage.
My, there are a lot of interesting questions that need to be addressed in the complexity of space travel. We have to be humble enough to admit to the possibility that one may one day have to abandon it for practical reasons..
“Drawing his own blood in zero gravity, for example, was a familiar routine.“
You mean ZERO-G; there is no such thing as “zero gravity,” an expression that should be written within quotation marks if, indeed, it needs to be written at all.
The “g” in zero-g refers to a force EQUAL to the force of gravity at the earth’s surface, but it is a consequence of one of three things: acceleration, deceleration or centrifugal force. It is NOT the result of the warping of space-time by mass, as Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity defines gravity.
Objects on the earth are bound to it by gravity; the pull of gravity a hundred miles above the earth’s surface is only marginally less than at its surface. Objects in orbit are weightless because gravity cannot be felt if an object is not being pulled against an unyielding surface, as everything on earth is. The Moon is bound to the earth by gravity, as is the earth to the Sun, and the Sun to the Milky Way galaxy. As far as we know, there is no place in the universe where there is actually zero gravity; if there were such a region, it would be outside the laws of physics as we understand them.
So, please, zero-g, NOT “zero gravity.”
3
So, they're not twins anymore?
4
@Hong Kong Johnny Heh. Actually, they probably were no longer genetically identical even before they were born! I wrote about this in a recent piece for the Times https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/01/science/twins-dna-crime-paternity.html & an excerpt from my latest book that the Times ran: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/21/science/mosaicism-dna-genome-cancer.html
3
Well....one thing seems clear to me from all of this. Leaving the Earth, over the course of a few eon's, is bound to be similar to that experienced by the first ancient primates who left Africa. It will be a species changing path we walk. Homo Sapien Spacicus anyone?
Bottom line? Evolutionary theory says an organism experiences change in direct proportion to the shift, or alteration, in its environment. If nothing else, going into Space in a big way will be about the biggest, most radical, alteration the species has experienced to date.
It all but insure the species morph's, though into what is anyone's guess. Just another step along evolution's path isn't it? Dinosaur's became birds; so who knows what we might become.
John~
American Net'Zen
3
Would we be surprised if a political opponent of Mr.Kelly emphasized the cognitive changes noted after return to earth?? Surely some insulting name is already coursing through Trump's mind
It’s his brother Mark who’s running for political office in Arizona, not Scott Kelly. I don’t believe that Mark experienced any measured decline in cognitive abilities.
Thank you for your mutual and unselfish contribution to mankind! The future of humans is tied to space as a multi-planet sepecies, and these first steps will endure in their importance for as long as we exist.
5
Sounds like Mr. Kelly was experiencing menopause.
4
It's really scary, but nobody cares. They will go to Mars anyway.
2
@James Ribe
Going to Mars is nothing, but how do you come back?
1
Civil servants! Thank you to both Kelleys.
5
Does this mean we might be better off if we try to solve our problems here on earth?
4
After 50 years on earth, my body's not the same either. Just sayin'.
5
Probably the worst part of this (mostly underreported) story is — Kelly was still Earthbound. Still subject to gravity, still mostly shielded from radiation by Earth’s magnetic field, his gut microbiome still “cross-pollinated” (if you will) by bacteria that had originated on the Home Planet; still genetically intact. The distance between Earth’s metallic core and its silicate surface is 4,000 miles. Kelly’s distance? 4,250 miles. Earth’s gravity at that altitude is ~90% of what it is on its surface so he was far from weightless. His apparent weightlessness was caused by circling Earth at 4.76 miles per second (17,100 mph).
All these deleterious changes happened while Kelly was just 250 miles (on average) above Earth’s surface. Imagine what will happen to him outside Earth’s protective magnetic shield, far beyond Earth-gravity, isolated from Earth’s biospheric genetic feedback loop?
We are constantly evolving creatures and extraterrestrial humans’ evolutionary dynamics will change. Trillions of human cells, bacteria and fungi will randomly mutate into new lifeforms. Some will be benign or minor nuisances; others deleterious. I suspect a host of new skin diseases will emerge that astronauts will find intolerable. But a few will be toxic, even lethal. New untreatable diseases unknown on Earth will spring up as if from nowhere, their hosts astronauts’ bodies whose immune systems are compromised by irradiation from the Solar Wind, absence of full Earth gravity and sunlight.
10
There's something exhilarating about reading of the molecular changes undergone by Scott Kelly but also something eery about the thought of viruses coming alive. Like science fiction.
2
Polio and chickenpox viruses go dormant and can become active again later in life. There are probably many other viruses that can reactivate.
3
Fascinating. What an amazing opportunity that NASA had and what a wonderful sacrifice Scott Kelly made for science. Bravo.
5
The "telomeres" issue is most likely due to "zero gravity", which is the main factor of space travel as well as "radiation". The bottom line; is it worth deleterious effects of space travel to go to Mars? Frankly, I would colonize the Moon and then think of long term missions to Mars. On the Moon we could get a better understanding of long term effects of inhabiting Space and other concerns.
3
@D-
Kelly was never actually in a true “Zero-G” environment. His apparent weightlessness was caused by being inside a vessel traveling at 17,100 mph — approximately the speed of a just-fired artillery shell. You’d be weightless, too, had you been fired from a cannon while crammed inside an artillery shell — at least for a few microseconds before the sudden launch acceleration crushed you flat as a pancake, turning you into a bloody red stain. That soon followed by a sudden deceleration as the shell hit and stopped, turning itself (and you) into incandescent powder. Too much energy involved to survive the trip.
An actual Zero-G environment is called a “Lagrange Point”, an invisible place in 3-dimensional Space where the Sun’s, Earth’s and Moon’s gravity cancel each other out. There, and only there, will an actual Zero-G environment exist. But because all three bodies are moving, circling each other and other gravitational attractors (including the center of our own galaxy) Lagrange Points are constantly in motion, twisting, turning, expanding and contracting; invisible gravity-less geometric shapes. They are the gravitational equivalent of solar or lunar eclipses.
They aren’t unique to us. Mars has Lagrange Points with its two moons. So do the bolides drifting in the Asteroid Belt between Mars and Jupiter. And Jupiter, and its moons. And Saturn, and the other Ice Giants. And all the bizarre mysterious objects slowly orbiting the sun in the Kuiper Belt and Oort Clouds.
1
Fortunately, it will soon be unnecessary for humans to endure extended periods in space. In less than a lifetime, machines will exceed our capabilities in every metric including cognition. Even today, we have sent rovers to Mars and probes into deep space to do jobs humans could not duplicate. Artificial intelligence is progressing at a rate that many in the discipline believe will surpass humans by mid century. Artificial super intelligence is inevitable. Only the timing is in doubt. Machines do not require all the expensive and heavy equipment to sustain life. They don't eat, drink or breathe. They don't require sleep or medical attention. They are much better suited to space exploration than humans could ever possibly be.
7
As someone who has worked in "AI" for 35 years the answer is NO! There is no machine that can or will be able to deal with the unexpected (like Neil Armstrong steering past unpredicted boulders at the last minute to save the Apollo 11 landing) the way a human can. People need to stop buying the corporate AI hype. Leaving aside life support issues we can do more good science in five minutes on a planetary surface with a human than 5 months with a machine. We know the challenges and we will do what humans do, adapt. To quote Bradbury said "the meek will inherit the earth, the rest of us are going to the stars".
1
Did Mark Kelly back home do the same things that Scott Kelly up in space did?
Similar exercise patterns, sleep cycles, work tasks, leisure activities, and daily schedules?
If not, and I’m pretty sure he didn't as the politically active spouse and caregiver of Congresswoman Giffords, then there is no way of knowing whether the changes were due to weightlessness and radiation or the host of other differences in their lives!
It's also strange that so many, in the article and elsewhere, have focused on the cognitive weakening, while ignoring key questions about how big the changes were, in which areas were they and how did they vary, and the obvious counter-explanations of a busy life, stress, and retirement that article identified!
41
@Mark Pembroke Obviously, Mark Kelly did not spend each day like Scott Kelly, nor could he. Some experts thought that the fact he didn't eat the same diet of space food might have been particularly significant in their different patterns. Although I haven't eaten space food, I get the impression it's something that would be hard to get anyone to volunteer to eat...
28
@Mark Pembroke
"Two hundred and forty miles below, Mr. Kelly’s twin brother, Mark, who also served as an astronaut, carried out identical tests."
4
Fascinating! First, Scott Kelly is a science hero, and embodies the very definition of an “explorer.” Thank you to both of the Kelly brothers!
Second, I’d be interested to learn how these results map to other confined-space, high-stress, low human-contact scenarios. For example, long-range shorthanded ocean sailing, long deployments on smaller classes of submarines, and those year-long cave experiments to test human diurnal cycles.
Third, to those people who say that we should perform such experiments using rats or monkeys or any animals other than humans, I would remind them that it’s not about physiology alone; it’s also about psychology and psychological effects on our physiology.
Finally, to those who say that space exploration is a waste of money or time or simply not worth it, I say balderdash! In addition to practical benefits, some already realized, some not yet anticipated, the beautiful intangibles of imagination, aspiration, exploration and dreams are what make us most sublimely human.
(Please pardon my sermonette, but this is really exciting stuff!)
110
@Scott Fordin Regarding your question
"Second, I’d be interested to learn how these results map to other confined-space, high-stress, low human-contact scenarios. For "
America is a pioneer in this human studies .... test the solitary confined prisoners in American prison systems.
6
@Alpha: I thought about prisons also. And while I agree that the physiological and psychological implications of imprisonment may in some ways be relevant here, I don’t believe that there are clean mappings between the two kinds of subject groups.
Someone who is subjected to involuntary incarceration, with its concomitant punitive deprivations, stresses, abuse, and surrounded by hostile and often mentally ill co-subjects is hardly in an aspirational or even vaguely healthful space. Voluntary exploration or service involve drastically different kinds of subject groups.
Perhaps one way to map a bridge between voluntary and involuntary subject groups would be to study the differences between voluntary and conscripted members of the military.
3
@Scott Fordin It's possible that Scott Kelly's response to space was basically an all-purpose response to stressful conditions. That's a hypothesis, and one could test it by tracking mountain-climbers, submarine crews, etc. But until someone deploys the kind of molecular biology tools on those people, it's going to remain just a hypothesis waiting to be tested.
3
So, we have another confirmation that our bodies and mind developed as a part of Earth biosphere and we are connected with our planned for good and bad. I think this gives us a strong support for redirecting resources from a long range human space travel to robotics and to other more urgent goals such saving our planet. We perhaps will be able to return to this issue when we solve technological roadblocks such as propulsion for a rapid space travel and providing in spaces ships "earthy" condition as they required for balanced functioning of the body. However, I am skeptical because at least from the theory of relativity we know the limits for the speed.
80
@Adam We “know the limits for the speed” based on the “theory of relativity”? Might want to check in with some subatomic particle and quantum physicists, maybe even a string theorist or two.
2
@Adam Yes, we were made for the earth. But we also have an instinct to explore the unknown, to which we either adapt or abandon.
There is NO rational reason for sending humans to Mars.
Research can be done more effectively and far less expensively by unmanned spacecraft. It's not only a question of the astronauts' health, but the diversion of funds from medical research, helping the impoverished and other pressing issues. Many more lives could be saved.
Philosophically, one also has to ask in what sense would humans actually be on Mars when they will be hooked up to machines to control every aspect of metabolics. inc adjusting to the Martian atmospheric pressure .6 % of Earth's.
9
@Linda. In a perfect world, or just a better world, I’d be inclined to agree with you. However, I look back at the Space Race of the Cold War and realize that if the US had allowed the Soviet Union to get, and stay, very far ahead, the implications for our national defense, and the technologies developed for it, would have been dire and, quite possibly, disastrous.
There is also the possibility of life in other parts of the universe. Do we want to find it first or have it find us first?
2
“Because it’s there” is reason enough for me.
@Linda Fortunately, humans are not Vulcans. We very often do irrational things, and we are better for it.
Someone will have to forgive me for this, but when I read the article title I instantly thought of the change to Dr. Frederick Frankenstein’s body at the end of Young Frankenstein.
6
It makes perfect sense to me that certain cognitive scores declined during a long period away from the myriad of human, social, and environmental stimuli one would have on earth. As they say: use it or lose it. There is absolutely no way to replicate the millions of micro stimuli we are exposed to in a day on earth, as opposed to a day in an enclosed space with only a few people. Bet it happens to inmates in solitary confinement over time also.
The question is how quickly does our brain reacclimate, and how many headaches do we get in the process.
9
Could the telomere's have lengthened due to zero gravity and then disappeared after returning to the earth due to the impact of gravity? Just a thought.
6
Telomere length isn’t measured in actual length like inches or centimeters. They are measured in terms of numbers of base pairs of DNA. So “longer” telomeres really means more molecules of DNA. So gravity has no effect.
8
@Siobhan
I do understand your point. My question was poorly worded. When telomeres shorten enough and reach a certain "length" then cell division no longer occurs. Is it known whether or not zero gravity has some influence on the "lengthening" of telomeres? Is it a protective mechanism? Radiation exposure and an environment of zero gravity would seen to me to be the governing factors in the effect of space travel on the human body IMHO.
In a study done of clean up workers following the Chernobyl incident, the study indicated the workers' telomeres lengthened, except in those with various underlying diseases. Perhaps the lengthening of Scott Kelley's telomeres was a protective reaction to radiation exposure, but the effects of zero gravity cannot be ruled out - again IMHO.
Endurance is one of the best autobiographies, one of the top books I have EVER read. Do yourself a favor and read it
7
Well, there goes the Musk stock again.
4
Could this be a hint that we can no more leave our home planet than cells of our body could leave us and strike out on their own ?
9
Why don’t we spend our money, energy and time on creating a habitable and clean earth before we start trashing the rest of the universe with our lack of respect for nature and our environment. The human mind is capable of immense destruction but maybe with forethought we could do something beneficial for earth rather than rape and pillage the planet with natural resource depletion. Maybe earth would be better off with human extinction. We seem to be on that trajectory. We need enlightenment, but not possible with our political system. It would require a revolution in thought processes.
17
I wonder if these findings correlate to other species? Maybe this is the the reason alien hominids haven’t visited us?
@Mary Nagle I haven’t really thought specifically about hominids, but have wondered about viruses in that context for a while. Going either direction. Less developed communities here on Earth have been decimated by viruses brought by people that find them via more advanced technology. Would our world look like a sewage drain of nasty superbugs to other intelligent life? Or are our defenses primitive compared to theirs such that new viruses could be weaponized against us? If we get to them first, what could we be picking up?
I don’t lose sleep over such questions, but it is interesting to ponder. Perhaps I’ll see if I can scarf a few extra flu vaccines each season to ingratiate myself, or defend myself, in case I come across a few space aliens 😉
I wonder if Klotho will end up being a solution?
1
" Whitey on the Moon" Gil Scott Heron
3
Maybe we should take better care of our planet.
6
Two words: Suspended animation. Think Khan in "Space Seed". Where's Ricardo when you need him?
3
This story is years old.
Didn't have time to read all the posts, so forgive me if someone's already asked this ... why did Kelly need a flu shot?
2
Astronauts in the International Space Station get some protection from harmful radiation from our planets magnetic field:
https://www.nasa.gov/audience/foreducators/5-8/features/F_Shielding_Space_Rays.html
But, if traveling to Mars, the only protection Astronauts would have, would be from the spacecraft they were traveling in, which and because of mass restrictions for the spacecraft, it wouldn't offer much protection at all.
A solar flare could prove deadly as would Galactic Cosmic Rays.
Once on the surface of Mars, the crew would still be exposed to higher levels of radiation. NASA won't be able to engineer their way to a solution for this problem. Radiation caused damage to DNA and Chromosomes will be far worse for travelers to Mars than for occupants on the ISS.
Despite what so called experts say, interplanetary travel to Mars will at best, be a rare novelty that will, in many cases, be a one way trip... if it happens at all.
(When the International Space Station crew can stay in orbit for 2 years without being resupplied - then we might be ready to try for Mars!)
Think radiation is bad for the ISS? Think radiation is really bad on the way to Mars? Just wait until people try to get beyond the Heliosphere... and it gets worse the faster you go. Interstellar travel is, at best, just a fantasy!
2
Get back to me when you send a twin woman into space for a year and how it affects our capacity to think long-term, feel compassion, and reproduce.
4
Be a Guinnea Pig ?
I’ll take a pass .
Rather than risk humans’ health by sending them to Mars, maybe we should wait until the Martians come to us.
5
.. Man in space is another entry on the long list of.. ' Replaced by Artif.Intel software ..or you can just read nyt Dr.VanAllenBelt.. here..
nytimes.com/2006/08/10/science/space/10vanallen.html ..which reads.. ' Dr. Van Allen was staunch advocate of planetary exploration with robotic spacecraft and critic of ..human space flight.. done better less expensively ' ... Gosh.. i wonder if any corporations benefit from the very expensive MAN in space programs that cost 100 times that of robotic exploration.. ok.. back to my robotic images of saturn.. I wonder what human endeavors will not be eliminated.. maybe writing science fiction stories like star trek ? I bet LockMart Grumn Corp.. love that captKirk STORY line.. very profitable !
Long duration human missions will likely require some form of centrifugally generated stand-in for gravity, as depicted in 2001 and The Martian. Even those scenarios will need to be thoroughly tested. Ships designed with that capability will be far more expensive at first. It makes no sense to go unless you’re willing to build the right infrastructure. These missions should be made both safe and repeatable. Going to Mars only a handful of times just to grab some rocks makes no sense. Large groups of humans will inevitably live and work off-planet someday. We might as well start laying the proper groundwork now. The untold knowledge and technological benefits this type of adventure always brings with it always tends to more than pay for itself. Pushing the boundaries of exploration has never gone unrewarded.
5
Just a thought, but maybe it would be useful to consider Peggy Whitson as she spent 534 days in space; much longer than a one-way trip to Mars. Was she similarly tested for radiation, genetic mutations, stress, etc, as Mr. Kelly was? It would appear that these biological tests would be essential for the well being of all returning astronauts, not just for a twin study.
21
This is so funny. All this time and money spent on the assumption that colonizing Mars is a worthwhile endeavor. Mark Fisher quipped that it is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism...on a similar note, apparently the colonization of another planet is similarly easier than thinking about how to sustainably coexist on the only one we have...
45
Of course there will be changes, and remarkable and substantive changes—
If there’s one thing I’ve learned, is that the human body, in fact all life, is exquisitely sensitive to its milieu and there is nothing that doesn’t have an effect.
A physician M.D.
12
We won't get there via rocket fuel, no matter its composition. Our great grandchildren will be comfortable in quantum processes we can't even imagine, and on this level they may reach the outer limits.
5
Welcome to the club, I turned 60 the past week. Genetic mutation and cognitive abilities, what was I going to write?
20
Maybe the reality is that all the science fiction stories have got it wrong all these times: that we have to genetically engineer different humans to traverse interplanetary (and in the far future, interstellar) distances and to live in alien worlds, so that we have less in common with them, physiologically, than we have with, say, the Cro Magnons.
7
@wlieu Given how complicated biology is, and how little we really understand of it, genetically engineering super-astronauts seems firmly ensconced in science fiction.
5
@Carl Zimmer
So that was precisely my point. The idea that we can start sending people to Mars for extended stays just because we have large enough rockets is a pipe dream (unless you are doing one-way suicide trips).
We have been so technology-centric in our thinking that we forget that evolution had trapped us on this planet and made us total dependent on its ecosystem and physics (1-g gravity, e.g.).
To live on Mars we first need to created martians, they won't be us.
8
this is further proof that trying to send humans into deep space using chemical rockets is a non-starter. unless we develop engines that can run continuously at a minimum of .25 g then we are not getting much further than low earth orbit.
2
For long distances - a constant 1g acceleration, craft flips at half-way point and applies 1g deceleration. No zero-g affects. Now we just need to get over our 'no nukes in space' squeamishness, as its the only current solution for the propulsion we need to achieve that.
5
Wow.
How fascinating.
God bless these twins for adding immense knowledge to rigors of space travel.
It would be interesting if NASA now found a female and male as twins to take part in a study like this. Not that I am advocating them as guinea pigs or something.
But just knowing from earth bound folks - I am expecting a female astronaut in space would fare better.
8
The legend of Antaeus, son of the Earth goddess Gaia, comes to mind. Antaeus was invulnerable as long as he could touch the Earth. Heracles killed him by holding him aloft and crushing him.
Every living thing is, in a manner of speaking, descended from Gaia. We may, someday, be able to live in space, but we do not yet know enough to thrive beyond our own planet.
11
Is it just me or does this history of “pain, trouble sleeping, other woes...fighting through quicksand”, sound like depression or PTSD from having been isolated for a year? You might expect Mark to also have similar issues due to the awful trauma of his wife, Representative Giffords, having been wounded in the assassination attempt. All in all, we owe a lot to this family of patriots.
30
So... was there a control group of twins they compared them to?
5
@Petey There was not. One expert I talked to said that would have been a good addition to the study--maybe even dozens of twins. They would provide a clearer picture of the "noise" in our biology.
8
To add insult to injury, Earth-bound Mark is now slightly younger than Scott, due to general relativity time-dilation effect of being closer to the center of the Earth ; (
4
He already had super powers - brains, strength, dexterity and the courage of a lion plus a degree SUNY Maritime - before he went into space. Interesting how he thought up the Twins Experiment. I had not known that.
Got a kick out of this quote from the article “The main conclusion I got from this paper, based on all the objective data, is why would anybody want to go to Mars or be in space?” he said. “Because this is really scary.”
You need super powers to do that kind of stuff. Not mentioned in this article was that Capt. Kelly (USN Retired) was a topnotch fighter pilot and at one time captained the Navy stunt flying team, The Blue Angels.
That's some really scary stuff, as well.
Hoping there are no long term negative impacts on his health.
Thank you.
18
Since we seem to be so obsessed with robots, electronics, computers, artificial this, that, and the other whatever, and finding we are becoming less human, why don't we just shoot all that electronic gobbledygook out into space, keep our feet on the ground, exercise, eat right, and let those machines gather data? Sorry about the long sentence.
12
I was pretty confident that we had covered this the first time around last year: Scott Kelly's DNA did not mutate.
Results from NASA's Twins Study indicated that 7% of his genetic expression - how his genes function within cells - did not return to baseline.
Am I missing something?
2
@SteveRR There was definitely some confusion last year when some preliminary data got reported. The 7% you heard about actually refers to gene expression (what has now bumped up to 8.7%). In other words, it's the percentage of Kelly's genes that began to be transcribed at significantly elevated levels. The percentage did *not* refer to mutated genes.
Here's a piece on how the news got scrambled last year. https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/03/scott-kelly-dna-fake-news/555794/
4
@Carl Zimmer
Thanks Carl!
1
I have always wondered why NASA has not created a gravity system by rotating any space platform meant for long term human habitation.
The rotating space wheel has been part of science fiction for generations.
4
@Eric Merklein I guess science fiction writers have made us think it's easier than it really is. Here's an explanation of the challenge, from astronomers at Cornell: http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/about-us/155-people-in-astronomy/space-exploration-and-astronauts/aeronautics/922-why-doesn-t-nasa-build-rotating-spacecraft-to-simulate-gravity-intermediate
4
I find this article very interesting on a number of levels. If the human organism has apparently so much difficulty orbiting our own planet for a short period of time, what would be the price paid for an extended trip like Mars? We have two choices. We can figure out a way to protect the human space explorers or turn the job over to computers. Maybe HAL 9000 should have been alone.
5
An intelligent experiment, even with a small sample size, and thanks to the guys for putting up with the inevitable extra constraints and tests. It is interesting that, beyond the mostly banal bits of science tested over our decades of long-duration flight, that the human body does remarkably well in zero-g. Indicates the good chance for a 1/6 g lunar outpost, if not a true settlement, and, given some engineering development, long trips to, for example, Mars. NASA, if not other scientists, has for years wished for some water to be found on Mars (and lately, the Moon, and outer planet moons). Water is one potential enabler for much else, especially budget. Like the Apollo program, going to the next planet is a costly project, but it is certainly within range.
Off-Earth science, of course, is vastly better done without human crews.
3
Well, humans evolved on earth and their bodies reflect that relationship down to the molecular level. It is probably better to let robots make the journeys in space. Humans seem to think they can trash the earth and move on to another similar planet and start fresh, but I suspect this is a fairy tale that conveniently excuses all human failures at protecting this planet. Our only home.
37
The sci-fi series The Expanse made me appreciate its pragmatic attention to such vital details as our exquisite adaptation to Earth and thus its singular preciousness to us as we steadily destroy it, and maladaptation anywhere else.
It also deflated my dreams, fed by other sci-fi series like Star Trek, which I can no longer watch quite like before when travellers assume constant gravity and never bother with inexistent seat belts, amid the occasional space ‘disturbance’ or fight with another ship.
7
@ml The physics of "The Expanse" is wonderfully realistic. The biology can get a little fantastical. But still a great series.
1
There should be further cognitive studies done, since at this point in time Scott Kelly may no longer be experiencing the stress he felt at the time of his return, when he took the post-flight tests. How would he test now?
6
Interesting study, but he is old for his profession and of course there are many issues that they must accept to say do to Mars. If we are going to Mars we will have to preposition many things to assist them.
1
The food in space isn't all that healthy. Nothing fresh, unless they're growing bean sprouts somewhere in those shipping container-like living spaces. Water is recycled from you-know-what.
11
I traveled all over the Universe as a child. Science fiction at least doesn't change your body. It's humbling to see how strongly our human biology is tied to our planet's gravity, when we travel outside of books.
32
Some questions occur:
-could encapsulated batches of cells be sent into space and returned to earth a year or more later with the result that certain desired, engineered chromosomal changes occur?
-do today's entrepreneurial space pioneers like Elon Musk and Richard Branson plus others already know about this and are working on this?
-now that this information is available, will the international space race ramp up for entirely new and potentially more troubling reasons?
Beam Us Up, Scotty.
8
Well, thank God for this. I'm so happy we spent the money to do this study
Now all Americans will know that if they fly into space and orbit the earth for an extended period of time, their "molecules will change"
Certainly this brings a high level of value to physicians and patients everywhere.
4
@Greg It is indeed very important to know -- it means we are stuck on Earth without prospects of another colony on another body in the Solar system for the forseeable future. While this was true in the short term already, it makes it absolutely critical that we take care of this planet. We cannot abandon it. It was not an obvious truth already for everyone.
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@Dani F. It absolutely does not mean what you assume it does, and of course we need to protect the planet no matter what. That does not mean drastic methods to restrain CO2 emissions. The Earth has survived much more drastic changes.
The Earth has, humans not so much.
I'm old enough to remember the Saturn V launch vehicles. Since those days we've just gone downhill when it comes to launch vehicle capability. The idea of the Shuttle was originally to make a literal space plane. It was a nice dream but when they couldn't do it, we just went for cheap and strapped a couple of solid fuel missiles onto a "space glider", and sprayed foam on the fuel tank. Since then things have continued to go downhill in terms of actual capability. We still can't make a space plane. Whether we can make a rocket as big as Saturn V is an open question. But we can do studies of astronauts alright.
1
@roseberry I too was alive then, it is not that we could not do it, we just were not willing to pay the price or it is more expensive to do than use traditional rockets.
2
@vulcanalex That's right, so in the last 60 years we've made zero progress with launch vehicles, unless you count that private companies can now do what the federal government could do in the 60s.
1
@roseberry
I would say that a rocket launched into space then returned to a precision landing back on Earth is a rather impressive sign of progress. Just think of how much money we'll save.
3
So he felt like he was fighting through quicksand. I find this very interesting. My now deceased brother contracted a horrific case of West Nile disease. When he was comatose and near death, given a 5% chance of survival, he would move his arms about before he fought his way back to us. When he came back to us 6 weeks later, he stated that he felt like he was fighting through quicksand while he was comatose. The human mind is so interesting.
28
This gives a different manting to "there's no place like home"? My gratitude to the experimenters here, all of them, particularly ones in space. While I think this is extremely important, there is also the irony of dire problems here on Earth in search of solutions.
10
So we can shelve all the moon colonies ideas and the fantasy of surviving well and producing on Mars.
Then we dedicate our selves to saving the planet and making it a "home sweet home".
27
@Discernie yep. Looks like the only sustainable long term space habitats will rely on centripetal acceleration, which means man-made, which means small, which means Earth is IT.
4
@Discernie. Not necessarily. A year on a zero G space station is not the same as a year in a 1/6 G lunar habitat withe greater shielding.
@Dani F. Or say Mars, the Moon, or Moons of gas giants. Earth is not IT.
1
It’s interesting. When I looked at the picture of Mark and Scott to see if I could guess which one had experienced cognitive decline, I got it wrong. While such a picture is no scientific mesure by itself, it does make me wonder if he was doing what all creatures do under the stresses of environmental change, and adapt. Is it possible, even probable, that to send humans into space for thousands of years, they might return as a different species? It seems almost assured.
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@Daniel Kauffman ✅
Read Kim Stanley Robinson’s trilogy about the colonization of Mars.
Humans born on Mars can not survive on earth.
Besides the books are a hoot.
Shout out to Kim Stanley Robinson for his great science fiction writing.
Really interesting, but I am bemused by Dr. Topol asking why anyone would want to undertake a long mission to Mars given the increased risk of cell mutations. I mean, they're on a mission to Mars where one out-of-place space object would end it all very quickly. The relative increase in lifetime risk of cancer would seem to pale in comparison to the actual risk of undertaking the mission.
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@OneView
If we wind up colonizing Mars, the life expectancy of those in the colony will most certainly go down, perhaps significantly. We've been lulled by our cocoon of modern conveniences and medical advances into believing we're a few steps closer to immortality; in reality, those living in the new frontier will have to brave many similar difficulties that our forbears on Earth did not that long ago.
51
@OneView Obviously, any mission to Mars would be highly risky, and one way. Those brave enough to take that risk will want all the information they can get about what to expect. That won't stop them to be sure.
23
@Greg
National Geographic has run a two season and counting superb series on the first manned Mars missions. Part science fiction and science fact.
And the dangers of space travel to humans have been recently explored in science fiction series " The Expanse" and " Nightflyers".
5
I'll say this: the Kelly twins are true patriots for devoting so much of their lives to expand knowledge of the effects of human activity in space.
534
@Paul Bernish
Yes but Peggy Whitson holds the NASA record for time spent in space.
While our Russian friends charge us $75 million per American to ride to the International Space Station.
While private industry works on building the rockets to get to the ISS, the Moon, Mars and beyond.
Will Mars be an international or national trip?
Will Mars be private or public or both?
We need an alternative to chemical rockets.
We nred gravity and radiation protection.
6
@Paul Bernish
Omigosh, AMEN. These are amazing people.
12
@Paul Bernish-
We actually have yet to send humans into “Space”, as you call it, meaning far beyond Earth’s orbit and gravitational pull. Yes, the Apollo missions pushed us in that general direction. But, while admittedly dangerous for their brave crews they were merely tentative first steps that barely qualify as stunts; one reason why we haven’t done any more. NASA might not admit this openly but its senior scientists and managing directors know perfectly well just how lucky we were that half those missions didn’t end in disaster and death.
We have yet to manufacture so much as a paperclip from non-terrestrial materials in near-Earth orbit or beyond. We have yet to grow so much as a pound of non-terrestrial food in a sustainable way, forget in quantities that can feed even a tiny extraterrestrial population. We have yet to generate a single life-support element — like oxygen and hydrogen — from water mined from a bolide. No social safety net out there. No hospitals or hotels, no way to recreate or relax.
There’s nothing out there — no “there” there — just a radiation-saturated void occasionally punctuated by widely-separated relics of Creation. Barren, airless rubble drifting this way and that, their regoliths a paucity, a small selection of elements. And we haven’t a clue how to turn that paucity into the cornucopia needed to survive while we thoughtlessly — and stupidly — destroy the only one that nourishes and sustains us called by some the “Third Rock From The Sun”.
25
Scott Kelly is a true hero, but are there no twin rats upon which these experiments could have been conducted? In a short-lived creature any anomalies would be more pronounced. Also, it could be tested whether these mutations were heritable and cumulative over generations.
1
Which would give information about rats, not people. And Scott was going anyway, so why not learn something from that?
4
If we stop planning a future in space, would we start taking better care of earth? It is likely the only home we will ever have.
12
@Thomas T No rational person is stopping planning for a future in space, and it is not an either or type of situation.
2
Perhaps as a comparison, someone should study pairs of adult identical twins in the same detail to see if they also develop differences as they age.
2
@JRW Identical twins start developing biological differences from the moment the egg separates into two. We talk about the embryos sharing the "same environment" because of the common womb, but in fact the embryos have different environments. Embryo A has an environment impacted by Embryo B and vice versa.
I'm an identical twin, born a month premature. I weighed more than my sister at birth, and her lungs and nervous system weren't as developed as mine. It seemed that I got the larger share of the available resources.
The "stronger"/"weaker" divide followed us through life.
We share one big-ticket genetic condition, being on the losing side of the family history of bipolar disorder. But the course of our illnesses was different, the intervention we received was vastly different, and our current treatments have similarities and differences.
And speaking of big-ticket items, my sister was working on Wall Street on September 11. Apart from the PTSD, she was exposed to heavy-duty toxic substances.
Now in midlife, I would be VERY interested to know how my sister and I differ at the molecular level. Perhaps the NASA study will prompt terrestrial twin studies to move in a like direction.
3
Why is his head-shape so different from his twin's?His skull looks elongated, his nose is longer. This isn't mentioned at all in the article. Were these differences present prior to, or only after, the journey? Scott's neck is thicker, suggesting he is more muscular and fit than Mark, but I don't believe one's cranium changes shape from working out. Is it due to differences in earth/space gravitational pull?
5
@GWoo In an interview he gave about a year ago, he noted not only that his head got measurably bigger but that it *felt* bigger, as if filled with fluid. He didn't like the feeling and hoped it would return to normal at some point. But he knew that might never happen. I remember listening to him and thinking, "Ugh, I'm so glad I never had any interest in going into space."
9
Thank you Kelly Twins for your service towards the United States and SCIENCE! Thank you NASA and the ISS for supporting this study.
37
Given that we've not travelled an inch beyond the moon in half a century, I doubt we will get to Mars anytime soon. And I doubt, like most scientists, that I human being will ever leave the Solar system, let alone the Oort cloud.
3
@Kevin Over time you might be surprised, surely not in my lifetime.
The article is missing information about how the preflight genetic and other data compared between these putatively "identical" twins. How genetically identical were they at the start of the study?
Missing too is the within subject comparison of the earthbound twin's own pre and post flight data, which the study presumably collected too.
6
@urbanprairie I thought the same thing, "identical twins" are not exact replicas of each other. That's especially true of the genes that control the immune response.
During fetal development, the DNA that codes for immune response undergoes random reassortment in each twin.
Even if they start out with the same DNA sequences, the final genes are quite different.
In addition, each twin accumulates mutations and epigenetic changes throughout their lives that are unique to them.
6
Which brings to mind the question, "What is the urgency of sending humans to Mars?"
As much as I love astronomy and space exploration - and I do - there is no satisfactory answer to that question. Meanwhile, there is a HUGE cost in treasure and people for human missions.
Let the robots/AI do the work for now.
9
@Early Dawn There is no urgency, if there was humans would already be on Mars. And of course we have no real AI, we do have machine learning systems.
It's surprising that more of this hadn't been learned by animal studies. Has no one ever taken a cloned rat into space for a few months, made it drink Tang every day, and compared its blood with that of its copy, and compared their times running through a maze?
9
Terrific article. Thank you. I would be in interested in a study, perhaps here on Earth, that separates the effects of the variables gravity and radiation.
4
Better shielding to block out radiation, without extra weight, and higher speed of the spacecraft to minimize time in space, without using huge amounts of fuel. These are big challenges which could require new scientific discoveries, which means their arrival is unpredictable, otherwise they wouldn't be discoveries.
4
@walkman Better light weight shielding, and faster. The laws of physics make these things difficult. Exploration has always been risky, this seems like a small risk.
Very interesting, but there's a clear problem with the research. Specifically, the age of the men. Even if they are twins, at some point in time their bodies can go on separate paths in aging. So it's not surprising that there are cognitive differences.
I realize that this is a first and not many twins around to do such an experiment, but the control was weak. Specifically one can't distinguish between so many different environmental variables such as space food vs earth food, or being in space with no wife vs being on earth with your wife. Jeff Dunham's Walter would surely have an opinion on this.
2
@Peter With all due respect, I am certain that those involved in the study fully recognize its limitations. Given the circumstances, they did the best they could.
8
What amazes me is that apparently the big shots at NASA didn't even think of using the fact that they had these identical twin astronauts as a unique opportunity for physiological research along these lines, until the Kelly brothers suggested it.
And here I'd always assumed that part of the reason these two men were both astronauts was precisely that they presented this research opportunity.
5
All the costs of a manned mission to Mars are not worth it compared to robotic exploration.
Robots and artificial intelligence make manned exploration unnecessary.
Take any test a man would do and build a robot to do it since a machine will be doing the analysis regardless.
When men returned from the moon, we valued the moon rocks/dust/photos/experiment data more than the personal stories.
“I can’t swim!” Sundance yells into Butch’s face.
“Are you crazy?” Butch asks, blues eyes sparkling. “The RADIATION will probably kill you!”
6
@RonRich There is no real AI today, if there was I would agree with you. No robot can respond or think like a human being well trained. A human can fix things and adapt to conditions that no robot can. There is a great movie and book about this on Mars.
@vulcanalex
Have you heard of Sojourner, Opportunity, Spirit and Curiosity?
Heard of AI self-driving cars?
1
Cancel my trip to Mars. I forget enough as it is already on earth.
14
@John Doe
LOL best comment!
2
With all the money that human have spend on mission to outer space, it would have been better to used that money to keep Earth healthy so many more generations can survive. Human body was form and created for Earth environment. Why can't we as an intelligence specie just realize that? Spend more money on how to preserve Earth and stop producing materials that is harmful to other species and the environments.
4
@bay1111uq The amount of money spent on this is trivial. The enormous benefits we've seen from the space programs make the expenditures a pittance.
7
@Bill
like what benefits?
2
@urbanprairie
You do realize that all the orbiting satellites that monitor weather and climate, agricultural conditions, pollution and even military threats on earth are the result of the space program?
7
I give this man a lot of credit. He took one for mankind. If we ever have to leave this planet, we can thank HIM for the ability to do so safely.
72
@Frau Greta
Yes, or we can thank him for alerting us to the fact that we probably can't do so safely, at least not for long periods of time.
The carbon footprint, not to mention the money spent on these manned space flights is spectacular and what we learn is that radiation causes DNA damage and provokes the immune system. Fabulous.
6
@roseberry Both the carbon footprint and the money, which is spent here on earth, are a drop in the ocean by comparison to the wider consumer economy, for a far greater benefit.
11
Cells and whatever else, not subject to constant gravity, will, in the absence of gravity, start to do what they do without being dragged down,
1
“Thousands of genes that were once quiet increased their activity — genes that remained quiet in Mark Kelly’s body back on Earth. The longer Scott Kelly stayed aloft, the greater the number of genes becoming active.”
The science fiction stories could almost write themselves. I might even take a crack at it.
37
@Alex You should seriously take a stab at it. Could end up launching a whole film franchise, seriously:)
4
No point in first going to Mars
Moon must be Base Camp
Then produce a Mars mission on Moon
We prove nothing with suicide missions
Fact is if we can’t keep Earth alive we have no hope for beyond
15
@No hope Quite true, but the Earth will be alive unless several large rocks hit it. Even one did not destroy the Earth or life on it 65 million years ago.
1
Wait - when climate change makes the earth uninhabitable, aren't we all just going to flee to another planet?
4
@Michael Climate change won't ever make the Earth uninhabitable, it might kill off some species and some excess human populations. Thinking it could happen is well a fantasy alternative reality.
This, unfortunately, is what we scientists call “n=1”.
Until more of these studies are conducted it will be impossible to tell if the observed changes are significant due the effect of space flight.
1
@Jon. Yes, of course. But it’s more information than “n=0”. And “n=2” or more must start with “n=1”.
1
Nothing surprising that there was a change in the intestinal flora. Space food differs from normal diet and the space station is presently quite dirty, full of various bacteria.
6
If a human being could be put into suspended animation (as in the excellent Star Trek episode "Space Seed") I wonder if that could that mitigate any detrimental effects on the human body. Too bad we're not close to that capability yet.
2
@susan
Radiation would still be damaging their DNA that whole time though.
5
"The main conclusion I got from this paper, based on all the objective data, is why would anybody want to go to Mars or be in space?"
Because it sounds cool. I remember when the Navy asked me if I wanted to be a fighter pilot. I almost signed the papers right there. Never mind I would have to learn how to fly a small plane loaded with explosives on and off a moving deck I may or may not be able to see. Add to that living aboard ship for a 9+ month deployment between long flights where, guess what, there are no bathrooms. WWII pilots were treated for burns on long flights because urine would puddle in the metal seat before boiling off. Added bonus, the water supply on board is often mildly contaminated with jet fuel.
And Topol is worried about astronauts? At least someone is studying what goes wrong with their bodies over time.
12
@Andy And yet many want to be fighter pilots, if I could do it I would have.
1
What a great story. I have to say, it strains credulity to think that Scott Kelly had to suggest to NASA that, uh, hey maybe they should compare his results with his identical twin, who's also an astronaut? I'd think that scientists would be chomping at the bit to conduct research like this.
177
@QTCatch10
I agree. That was definitely hard to believe.
4
It seems silly to send humans into space or out to other planets, given modern computing and robot power. The two Voyagers have given science so much and are still at it.
2
Kind of myopic thinking...wouldn’t you agree that if man will eventually colonize other planets, knowledge of how space flight affects the body would be of supreme importance?
6
@Jon
Man? Do you mean humankind or humanity?
3
@Jon That's just science fiction. We need to try to distinguish between reality and fiction. With another couple of hundred years of basic science (as opposed to manned space flight which applied science), maybe it'll look feasible and we can start applied research at that time.
I remember reading a few years ago about an astronaut who broke his leg while riding his bike -- assuming sadly, that a car had hit him. I learned further that he broke his leg just riding around his driveway. I wonder to what degree space flight promotes osteoporosis?
12
From what I have read that is a major concern. The lack of gravity does supposedly affect bone density.
10
Consider, this 'test' had a sample of two middle-aged white males. Two. But, I think it's clear from these data and previous astronaut studies that being outside earth's atmosphere presents us with many serious dangers. We are obviously not evolved to live off this planet. We may eventually visit Mars or an asteroid but we cannot live anywhere but earth. All the more reason not to continue trashing it. There is no 'planet-B'.
126
@Cody McCall well said, we are creatures of our biosphere, albeit with instincts to explore.
6
That was fun to read and very fascinating!!!!! It seems we have a long way to go before a manned trip to Mars and if it happens, the explorers will be like those in Project Mercury who took unimaginable risks to advance space exploration.
7
@Patricia Let's not forget Yuri Gagarin who first took the unimaginable risk of launching into space.
1
“If you had a period of slower cognitive processing speed and difficulty with balance and eye-head coordination, those behaviors would be at risk,” said Rachael Seidler, a cognitive neuroscientist at the University of Florida.
If you are having difficult with eye-head coordination, does that mean your eyes are just rolling around randomly? That sounds a little dangerous while operating any heavy machinery, much less an interplanetary spacecraft.
4
@Derek If an interplanetary spacecraft can float in space do we still refer to it as heavy machinery?
1
I wonder if the uptick of immune-system activity had something to do with the flu shot in space.
3
If a newly made pharmaceutical triggered these changes in the body, would it get approved for sale? I doubt it highly. Why should astronauts be exposed to such risk, much of it unknown in the long term? I think a lot of research into shielding spacecraft from radiation and creating artificial gravity in transit is in order.
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@John McGlynn. Umm... because they agreed to take such risks, and because that’s how knowledge advances?
You'd think getting away from Earth once in a while could result in better health...
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I know that this hero was in contact with other people and had daily routines that exercised his mind and body, but it seems frightening and both physically and mentally precarious to be in a kind of solitary confinement for such a long time.
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@towngown And then imagine what it would be like for people on a mission to Mars with a long time-lag in communication with people on Earth, and no giant blue planet right out their window!
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@towngown The older I get, the more time I spend alone. And if you gave me a chance to fly into space for two years and totally miss everything about the next election, I would jump at the chance.
Even if you locked me up in Gitmo, I would not be able to escape the upcoming barrage of Ann Coulters and Chris Cuomos, Jeanine Pirros and Rachel Maddows who are going to rant and rave into the cameras night after night telling me why I should fear everything on earth. I'm ready for space. Where do I sign up?
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@towngown
From the perspective of someone who loves space travel, science as well as science fiction - I can imagine an astronaut feeling like being out in space, free of gravity and people as the less confined space.
The more we know, the more it confirms that we cannot live in space. This should lead to more respect and stewardship of our decreasingly hospitable planet.
Reforming our habits of using stuff up and dumping vast amounts of material is wasteful of a finite resource. Deregulation is exactly backwards, since we are already adding what we now know are vast amounts of questionable material to our air, earth and water.
Going to Mars and "terraforming" it is a fantasy, vastly expensive as well.
What we refuse to know and observe is likely to kill the civilization we depend on. We have increased our habits of consumption and self-deception at an astonishing rate.
We should not be wholly owned subsidiaries of marketing, with its monofocus on convenience. We don't need more toys and enhancements, but more opportunities to breathe and be creative with what we have.
I am grateful to NASA and the Kelly twins Scott and Mark for the work they have done to increase our knowledge.
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There are other changes such as vision, the shape of the heart, and immune system that aren't addressed in the article. I'm curious this will be written into a book or proper research paper.
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@KC Royal It is. See:https://science.sciencemag.org/content/364/6436/eaau8650
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@KC Royal Alas, in a 2000-word story on 10 separate experiments, some things have to go missing. But if you'd like to dive in, the original paper (and supplementary file) are open-access: https://science.sciencemag.org/content/364/6436/eaau8650
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@Carl Zimmer
Ah, thanks for that link.
I really don't understand the push to go into space considering the problem the earth faces, as well as the need for some huge form of atmospheric changing technology. I could easily support exploration of the world's oceans considering their importance to our food supply, weather. not mentioning the fact that they cover over 70% of the earth's surface. The thought of thousands of folks walking around any of the known planets is pretty far fetched. The idea of cleaning, preserving, and making the ocean's food supply sustainable seems far more feasible and realistic.
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@Carlton
Carlton thanks. You will be told that you have no verve, no imagination, that your spirit is dead. It never eases to astound me that otherwise intelligent people will look you in the eye and say we must go into space to fire up our spirits. As if saving the Earth is not spiritualizing enough. We have met the enemy.
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@operadog. For nearly everything there is always a good argument that we should do something else instead. Sheesh.
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@Carlton There is financing for space travel, not a lot, but ocean study is limited to private groups, axe-grinding fishermen for example and academic studies, important but financed by volunteers. The historical and scientific death of earth will never get written. Oceans have become visibly morbid in our lifetimes. Humans rely on oceans but focus on getting the last fish, the last cruise ship, the last oil well above the Arctic Circle. Remediation of oceanic oil spills is strictly limited to window-dressing akin to Potemkin Villages and nil on land.
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This is absolutely fascinating (and very significant). This study would be highly informative (and of course raise even more questions) in any event, but I happen to be an identical twin, so I feel even more "involved."
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@jdc One scientist I spoke to said it would be interesting to recruit lots of twins like yourself and just compare them over the course of a year in ordinary life. Day by day, how identical--or not--is the molecular biology of an average pair of twins? We don't really know. That insight would help with the interpretation of a study like this one.
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Fascinating read.
It's also interesting that so many of the top read stories as of late, are about space. It's like we want to escape thinking about things on planet earth these days.
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@YReader
Yes, because this planet is being systematically trashed so we’ve got to find another for those who can afford it and leave this wasteland behind with us in it. Kind of like the Jody Foster movie Elysium where the very wealthy live on a man made space station while the rest of the population lives on a ruined earth.
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@Patricia Yes. But there is no escape from what we're doing to our fragile planet, and there is NO AIR on Mars.
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"Strangely, the average length of Mr. Kelly’s telomeres increased in space, rather than decreasing, as if his cells were becoming more youthful."
Is it just me, or do others think the twin who went to space LOOKS more youthful too?
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@FS Yes! Before i even read the entire article I thought Scott looked younger. He, sort of, seemed to glow.
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@FS: he probably looked younger partly because he lost 15 pounds
All of this is nice, but let's shy away from the real question. Did Mr. Kelly receive any Super Powers?
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@Dundeemundee Taking blood samples from himself in zero-g seems like one super-power at least...
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@Dundeemundee He already had super powers - brains, strength, dexterity and the courage of a lion plus a degree SUNY Maritime - before he went into space. Interesting how he thought up the Twins Experiment. I had not known that.
Got a kick out of this quote from the article “The main conclusion I got from this paper, based on all the objective data, is why would anybody want to go to Mars or be in space?” he said. “Because this is really scary.”
You need super powers to do that kind of stuff. Not mentioned in this article was that Capt. Kelly (USN Retired) was a topnotch fighter pilot and at one time captained the Navy stunt flying team, The Blue Angels.
That's some really scary stuff, as well.
Hoping there are no long term negative impacts on his health.
Thank you.
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" declines in cognition test scores"
So perhaps our descendants, sent on generations-long interstellar voyages (hope that never becomes necessary, or even "logical"), will arrive at a new world too dumb to survive. Or, if landing on an inhabited planet will hardly be representative of the best of our species.
"They're from Earth."
"Oh. Well, that explains it."
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Human beings evolved fit for their current ecological conditions over many millennia. Anatomy and physiology vary widely by selective adaptations impacting genes.
Space is not one of those places where there have been enough human beings over enough time to determine all of the dangers Gravity and radiation make a big human difference. Dealng with those two factors will be very critical.
Learning to fly in the atmosphere was rough. Flying in space will be very difficult. Apollo 1, Apollo 13, Challenger and Colombia must never be forgotten.
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"Thousands of genes that were once quiet increased their activity — genes that remained quiet in Mark Kelly’s body back on Earth"
This makes me wonder if there is a comparable study of genes getting activated when a person is thrust into any extreme or alien environment. Is this a normal adaptation mechanism? Is this genes finding probable adaptions on a cellular level rather than relying solely upon survival of the fittest at the individual level?
Does this mean people living in space could adapt to space within a few generations?
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@Luigi K I don't know of any comparative study in this kind of detail where someone climbs a mountain, etc. It's possible that Scott Kelly switched on a very general mammal stress-response program, rather than some special combination of genes. As for adaptation--it depends if you mean evolution or just individuals retooling their physiology....
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@Luigi K "Does this mean people living in space could adapt to space within a few generations?"
Assuming you're talking about a permanent colony in space - I'm guessing that pregnancy and childbirth would create many more issues, plus who knows what the effects would be on the growth and development of children born in space.
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@Luigi K
"Does this mean people living in space could adapt to space within a few generations?"
Of course we could, didn't you watch Wall-e? We become masses of blubber who look at a screen, sit in a moving chair and drink pop all day long.
Yay, what a bright future! Sounds just like the present.
Just kidding here, but the way things are going here on Earth, I wouldn't be surprised to see some comments that the decline in cognitive functioning was due to the fact that he's a Democrat, and IT'S ALL OBAMA'S FAULT!
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@follow the money
Obama is "passé". But it might be Sanders' fault (he is a communist, you know).
How does the cognitive decline differ from common Jet Lag?
What about the effects of prolonged confinement? How about diet. Maybe the next twin study should try to replicate these factors in the twin so we find out more about the relation to space travel per se. there are so many factors to look at including the lighting environment, weightlessness , bone density etc. A fascinating topic
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@Matthew Carr And maybe it is just the aging process.
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These results might usefully be compared to some other recurring extreme activities. Climbing Everest or K2, extended time spent deep underwater, extended extreme dieting, or lack of sleep are but a few examples. Perhaps a standard scale could be created for recovery times, and another for permanent (>10 year) loss of ability. Learning might go far beyond time in space.
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@Old Ben Some experts I talked to wondered if Scott's changes were a distinctive signature of space flight, or just a generalized response to a challenging experience. I don't know if Scott would be willing to climb K2, but some sort of study on twins along these lines would be interesting!
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I have no scientific expertise, but why are these results even the slightest surprising? Humans have evolved to achieve a compatibility with the circumstances and forces that exist on the surface of the earth. Shouldn't it be expected that long term existence in a very different environment should cause the body to suffer physical problems and that the body responds in attempt to deal with those problems?
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@Errol The scientists on the team that I talked to saw this study as just an initial, base-line study on which to build more research. Dr. Mason likened it to the first time someone took a blood pressure reading. You look at the numbers and aren't sure what they mean. But then you can measure another person, and another, and eventually insights into physiology emerge.
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@Carl Zimmer
I see. Its not that this was unexpected. They did expect it and are just engaged in assessing what changes will occur, not whether changes will occur.
Thanks Carl
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@Carl Zimmer
If the plan is to extend this research by sending more and more twin halves into space, then this is definitely not a low cost project. Even if it's a one time test, whoever has said the cost is a "drop in the bucket" and the benefits outweigh the downside, please give us the evidence. Data please.
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A possible solution to prevent some of these gravitational related issues was designed on the Pinewood Studios set for 2001, a Space Odyssey. A giant centrifuge within the spacecraft, providing an artificial gravity.
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@Steve Clark Arthur C. was a brilliant, imaginative and prescient man!
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I wonder how many of these changes were due to lack of gravity? The article doesn't say, so maybe some of the scientists are wondering the same thing. If we go to Mars, perhaps we should be thinking about creating a ship that's shaped like a circular tube that spins, creating artificial gravity.
But maybe that's easier to do in the movies.
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@Jamie
I've wondered about this, but unless the tube was enormous in radius, there would be differences, probably noticeable with this artificial gravity. First, the force at your feet would be greater than the force at your head and if you bent over and out of alignment the effects could be disorienting.
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@Jamie It is hard to disentangle all the conditions of space flight when they're hitting an astronaut all at once. As for artificial gravity--that would cost a lot and be very heavy, two things that don't thrill NASA.
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@Jamie
If you want an in-depth explanation of the almost impossible task of artificial gravity, you must watch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3D7QlMVa5s&t=3s
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