Few bands had more turnover than Fleetwood Mac, but they were not HUGE until Buckingham & Nicks joined. Most fans would say they are essential, but in reality, it's always been John McVie and Mick Fleetwood with as many hired hands as needed. I like their early and middle stuff, and the first few B & N CDs, not so much what came later. But the last show I saw live without Lindsey was still great.
1
I'm a longtime fan of King Crimson. I recognize that King Crimson is whoever Robert Fripp decides comprises King Crimson; right now, this includes (among others) three drummers, one of whom has been in the last two incarnations of the group; a bassist who has been in several versions; and a reed/woodwind player who was in one of the very first incarnations of the group, almost fifty years ago. I first saw King Crimson in 1974, and I have never been disappointed in any concert (or almost any album) by King Crimson since I first started listening to the band. That includes the current lineup, which I've seen twice so far.
2
Seems like The Blues Brother went through a lot of trouble for no reason.
5
This was hilarious, thanks.
1
Great article...I insist Haim hasn't been the same since Dash Hutton left either...Oh well life goes on !
Steve Perry - not an original member of Journey. The band formed in 1973; Steve Perry would not join until 1977. Do your research Rob Tannenbaum.
6
i kinda liked spin the guy from blood sweat and tears put on things.considering the band a franchise like a sports team.
as for me not real big on the reunion or bands trading on their past trying to imitate what was done decades ago.
1
Nice article! Brought to mind a comedy sketch (I believe on Saturday Night Live) a while back, with a performance by "& the Pips" singing just the backing vocal portions of "Midnight Train to Georgia." And now I don't feel so bad for not wanting to attend concerts of my (formerly) favorite bands missing original members.
7
As a bass player, I'm underwhelmed by Rob Tannenbaum's musical expertise.
3
I had a hard time when Ron Wood joined the Stones. Still do.
5
I've seen Styx about 17 times now, and I think only twice did it include the full original line-up. (Once was without Shaw, the rest were without DeYoung.) I've never been disappointed. The current lineup has been touring for a long time, puts on a very good show, released a new (excellent) studio album a couple of years ago, and still sounds great. Gowan has been with them so long now that there's no feeling, at all, of this being anything other than a tight, on-their-game live band.
I've also seen Dennis DeYoung live twice, and he puts on his own fantastic show (with quality similar-looking replacements for Shaw & Young). (Expect goof-ball humor and Mr. Roboto!)
Tip: If you're a big Styx fan, it's best to see them when they're not part of a three-band combo. They will play longer and go deeper into their song list. It's a treat to hear them play the deep tracks!
2
Biggest ripoff incomplete band of all time... CCR!
4
"Hope I die before I get old." Or have to play casinos?
The common denominator for all of these bands is that they haven't done anything new or interesting in 40 years or more.
Can't decide what's sadder, them or the fans that pay ridiculous prices with the hope of feeling young and skinny again for a couple of hours. Much rather play their early albums. Then take a nap.
5
I saw the Who twice in the early 70s, just the original lineup. plus organ/synthesizer tapes on Baba O'Riley and Won't Get Fooled Again. A big part of the act was the visual of Townshend's antics, Daltrey's microphone twirling, Moon going crazy on drums, and Entwistle standing there stolidly and glowering at the 3 idiots. But also, each of them was really unique as a musician. I saw them again in the mid-90s, post-Moon, with a horn section and a keyboard player, and Townshend's younger brother on lead guitar. Daltrey was still Daltrey, but Townshend had hearing problems and mostly played an acoustic guitar that often got buried in the mix, as did Entwistle's bass, which I had really come to love. The music was great. But the music was great when I saw them with the original lineup, and I missed the visual inspiration of the four originals. I haven't seen them since Entwistle died, not necessarily because of a lack of authenticity, but simply because I didn't feel the need. I've also seen latter-day versions of Procol Harum, Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd and some others. I did see Procol Harum back in the day, but by '73 or so they were down to two originals anyway. I feel some loyalty to the original configurations, but these days the sound is way better and the replacement musicians are often just as good or better. It's a shame to let the music die even if it isn't "authentic." Maybe the prices are too high ....
4
When Al Kooper left Blood Sweat and Tears it became a very different thing and should have taken a new name.
3
YES like the Dead is a band whose evolving identity is rooted in a continuing line-up rotation. Fans know who's who and what's what. Only casual fans who don't really care anyway are going to be fooled... and they may not care so long as the hits are faithfully replicated.
3
This article hits right on the money -- almost literally. Money.
I've referred to this phenomena as the, " Lynyrd Skynyrd-dization" of music(as noted, they are the worst purveyor of this trend); A genuine original artistic power reduced to a artificial, gift-wrapped money grabbing machine.
Classic bands -- like pro sports team now -- have been reduced to vapid commercial revenue genrators with little to none of the original substance that made them worthy of attention, alliegence and accolades.
Farewell tours! Enough!!
Grateful Dead died with Jerry Garcia! Period! Full stop! Steely Dan WAS Donald Fagan AND Walter Becker. Becker passed on. Steely Dan went with him. Rikki lose that number.
So, please artists, do keep producing great music -- but look forward. Let go of the past.
It was fun while it lasted but it is lasting waaay longer than it was fun
3
POCO.
The only original member left is Rusty Young and he tours as POCO. I couldn’t tell you who is now in the band.
Other members went on to very successful bands- Timothy B. Schmidt to the Eagles, Jim Messina to Loggins and Messina, Richey Furay to Souther, Hillman, Furay Band.
Young wrote a couple of their songs but the best and most popular were by Furay and Messina.
I just wish there was a bit of honesty when advertising them. I went to a POCO show a few years ago and it was only when I got there that I discovered who was and was not in the lineup.
2
Reminds me of one of my first writing assignments in college, Philosophy 101. A man buys an axe and sharpens the blade for several years as needed, until he can no longer do so and needs to replace the head. Meanwhile, he keeps the handle in repair as it begins to split, but a few years later he needs to replace that. That cycle repeats over a decade or two.
When would he consider he no longer has the original axe?
Judging by the fans that still pack Eagles concerts, Uriah Heep reunions and Brian Wilson shows...the answer is in the eyes and ears of the beholder.
2
We are fortunate here on Long Island to have an abundance of cover bands that play for free in the parks in the summertime. They cover groups such as the Eagles; Earth, Wind and Fire; Journey, CSN, and many others, and are usually quite good. All at no cost to the consumer (aside from the obscenely RE taxes we pay). No reason to pay more!
3
So many bands went through so many different members in their heyday that they could tour three or four different circuits simultaneously and each could stake some claim to the band's legitimacy! I'm thinking especially of such British bands of the 1970s as Jethro Tull, Fleetwood Mac, King Crimson, Yes and Fairport Convention. I believe the last had a 100% turnover in its ranks by decade's end. Ian Anderson and Robert Fripp were the only constants through tha many permutations of Jethro Tull and King Crimson respectively. It's not unlike the various incarnations of Drifters and other 1950s-era R&B acts.
There are bands I’d rather see a new version of rather than the originals.....
2
Seems odd to read this story without a mention of Dead and Company, where the younger players have kept the music vital and growing; perhaps an antidote to the sclerosis described here.
5
Outside of rock, add the Inkspots and the Kingston Trio. Not sure about currently, but not too many years ago.
Like cities, bands never die if there is a ticket to be sold.
1
As a consumer of music, I've found a simple solution to address the issues outlined in the article. No matter how much I might have once liked the performer (band), if the performer has not released new music within the last five years, I won't go see them live. A good friend was shocked when I turned down his offer of Who tickets a few years back.
Ironically, the headline reference to Mott the Hoople struck home. I noticed that they will be playing at the Chicago Theatre. Despite my rule, I was tempted to make an exception (knowing that one or two members were dead). Then I read the article. I'll be listening to the records.
Based on similar reasoning, I won't be attending Woodstock later this year. There may be new musicians performing, but the overall effort is an attempt to recapture the past. Not going to happen. Now if they want to have an anniversary concert celebrating Altamont, I might make an exception.
And that is the problem with Fandom, and the scourge of most decent musicians - the fans only want to hear the oldies and hits from the past. Most musicians do NOT want to play the same tune every night for 47 years. They want to progress and improve and do new material. Its management and the fans who want these bands encased in Amber like a fossilized bug.
2
When John Bonham died, the remaining members of Led Zeppelin did the honorable thing, they called it quits as Led Zeppelin. The brief reunion for Live Aid in 1985 with Phil Collins drumming gave us a sad and uninspiring performance, and a later one-off reunion concert with Bonham's son Jason on drums was considerably more successful.
No one, though, believes that a reunion tour with the three surviving members would be "Led Zeppelin." Not without Bonzo.
2
According to actual founder Al Kooper, Bobby Colomby was not a co-founder of Blood, Sweat & Tears although he was an original member. Colomby did however trademark the name and with other band members, threw Kooper out of the group after the first album. According to Wikipedia, there have been over 140 members of Blood, Sweat & Tears, so it's really just a brand, not a band.
When Kooper celebrated his 50th birthday with three nights of concerts at the Bottom Line in 1994 with members of the Blues Project, Blood Sweat & Tears and his then-current band, The Rekooperators, Colomby wouldn't let him use the name, so for those concerts, they called the band "Child Is Father to the Man", the name of the first album.
With all the bands from what we now call the Classic Rock era aging and with many original members deceased, there's almost no choice: if you elect to see the band in concert, there may not be too many original members. I was under the impression that in New York State, there was a law passed that stated that a band had to have at least one original member and if not, had to state as such in any ads, but that might be moot in the internet age where newspapers might not be the primary place people get info about shows these days.
4
Won't see a band if one original member is dead, fired, or quit?
I guess you haven't seen the E Street Band for 40 years.
5
Fugazi Reunion Wanted.
4
Ian Hunter should call his new band Not the Hoople.
8
Sorry if you are a die hard fan of The Hoople, but I wasn't aware that they actually had any "Hits".
@Patrick Vecchio
good one
Slight tangent, but I'm really looking forward to Roxy Music's HOF induction, wondering if Eno will be joining Ferry, Thompson, McKay, Manzanera and a bass player to be named. I saw Roxy twice in the 70's but was floored by the 2001 Apollo DVD performance with Chris Spedding -- they were better than ever.
@mapleaforever
Saw the same tour in Toronto, I thought it was a lifeless, going through the motions show with Ferry reading lyrics off the teleprompter. Maybe the Apollo was a better show?
You could write an entire book on the Motown groups still touring. Heck, the Supremes were doing it 50 years ago when Diana Ross went solo. The Temptations went through lead singers like Trump goes through cabinet officials, and the Four Tops? Well, less than four, for sure.
Glen Miller, Dorsey, Les Brown...these names are still used to sell nostalgia from the Big Band era - they are referred to as “ghost bands”. So it appears what’ s working for the parents of the boomers is now working for the boomers...
1
Maybe we should turn the mirror on ourselves: Those of us who hang on to tiny shards of what once was and shell out money for ... what? My pet peeves are NRBQ with co-founder Terry Adams who reclaimed the band's name after publicly stating he'd never do so on WFMU. And then there's The New York Dolls. David and Syl hired a few young turks to fill the spots of the dead. The Dolls without Johnny Thunders, Jerry Nolan and Arthur Kane? Please. At least Ian Hunter has the good manners to tweak Mott's name.
1
@Rob Dudko. I think the current line-up of NRBQ sounds as good as the band as ever sounded, and I say that as a HUGE NRBQ fan. In a way, it would be even stranger to NOT call Terry's current line-up NRBQ, not only because of many of the songs they play from the NRBQ songbook, but even more so because of the ATTITUDE and APPROACH of this band to the performance. I would argue that this line-up is capturing the NRBQ vibe better than the period after Al (not the original guitarist) left the band. John Perrin on drums is practically channeling Tom (without copying him).
1
@Michael M.
Spoken like a true believer. Between 1979 and 2003 I saw the band more than 100 times. Terry's a brilliant musician and like the rest of us, a fickle human. He put together a good post-NRBQ band, playing his new tunes and old Al and Joey songs from NRBQ's halcyon years, but apparently felt the need to recant his words. I understand that a guy has to make a buck, but it still smacks of a bit of a hustle to me. I'd feel the same if Al or Joey or the late Steve Ferguson grabbed the name for their own.
Reunion tours are almost always cringe worthy. The only older bands or performers worth seeing are the ones that never stopped playing.
I find it hilarious that anyone would miss Darcy from the smashing pumpkins. She was just a talentless hack, eye candy on stage, who didn't even play on their albums.
2
Forget the cigarette—Bun E. Carlos has an inimitable feel that their current guy doesn’t come close to getting. He may be playing the arrangements correctly but a huge part of their magic, for me, was that terrific groove Bun E had. Reminded me of Earl Palmer.
2
Even if it's an original member, after 40+ years, is it really the same guy who made the hits you remember? Is the Pete Townshend touring today the same guy who tore up the stage at Woodstock? No. The energy is just not there. I love the guy, but the past is dead. Cherish your memories.
3
@Craig Willison No, it's not the same Who, but on the other hand, I very much prefer having Endless Wire to not having Endless Wire.
OTOH consider King Crimson. The only active original member is Robert Fripp. IMO the “Discipline” era quartet is by far the very best of the group’s numerous iterations.
1
I stayed with the Dead after Pigpen died and Hart took a sabbatical and after Godchaux, then Midland, died. Then Jerry died. Any band featuring John Mayer isn’t the Dead no matter who else is on stage.
It’s also interesting to consider Ron Wood who was a sideman, a hired hand rather than a band member, for a decade with The Rolling Stones, before he attained band-member status.
1
The Dead know that too: thus the name change. If you like that music, though, give Mayer a chance—he’s an excellent and expressive player and has grown a lot in his years with the band.
4
Don’t complain about bands changing out members.
The solution is to not go to these concerts.
Stay home and put on the CD, or put the vinyl on the turntable, or just stream their old albums.
At least by playing the original music you will be getting the original members.
7
In a more classical vein, The King's Singers and Chanticleer have changed personnel many times, but none of their fans are complaining. The level of artistry by these groups has never faltered.
Hey Rob:
Thanks for the heads up on the Bikini Kill tour.
I don’t really care if Billy is no longer with them because the band was always about Kathleen’s amazing vocals and song writing.
I’m going to see them in NYC from N.C. and if I can hear and see Kathleen sing Rebel Girl, the trip will have been worth it.
1
When I was a teenager in the early seventies and the Fifties revivals were in full force, I would sneer at all the people my parents age who where trying to recreate their youth to compensate for an adulthood that had largely been a disappointment. Then one evening in '83 or '84 I attended the Happy Together tour and was horrified to realize I was at a Sixties revival concert. Anyway, at that point I swore off the nostalgia trip and have, for the most part never looked back.
3
Disputes about who owns a name are the unfortunate side effect of one of the many gifts the Beatles gave the music world. Used to be, bands had to have a clearly designated leader in order for record labels to sign a contract with them. Now there's at least the potential for democracy within a group.
I'm a curmudgeon; I think music began in 1963 (December '62 if you want to be fussy) and pretty much ended in 1972. I remember enjoying being in a hot, noisy room crowded with people, but I'm about the age of the musicians I love, so I'm happy to stay home and listen in comfort.
@Brian Harvey. I remember the 70’s music too and saw the Beatles as a kid, at Shea. But I am not so old that I would say “music stopped in the 70’s”. The 80’s brought amazing music and your comment discounts the Cure, whom I saw in 2016 in Madison Square Garden and they most definitely didn’t “phone it in”.
There has been some great music produced since the 70’s. My music library spans 6 decades, I am not so old that I want to hear the stuff I grew up with constantly.
1
@Brian Harvey you certainly missed a lot of great 70s, 80s, and 90s music if you think it ended in 72.
I was delighted to see my students at a Decemberists show a few years back: one of the great indie bands making Rock as great any anything from your purported "Golden Age."
1
@denise Oh, sure, I wasn't expecting anyone else to agree with me! And, yes, there are exceptions. My (now adult) kid taught me to like the Gin Blossoms. And, giants such as Ray Davies and Randy Newman are still going strong.
The thing is, back then I was a DJ at my college radio station, so I heard more or less every record made in the period, and we took seriously our duty to listen to everything so we could discover stuff that those other radio stations didn't know anything about, people who ended up famous, such as David Bowie, Giorgio Moroder, and Cat Stevens, and people who didn't, such as Proctor Amusement Company, Van Dyke Parks (famously on other people's records, but his own remain pretty obscure), and the immortal Captain Zoom and the Androids.
I'm telling this story only partly to show off. The real point is that I don't have that kind of time or (especially) energy to devote to new music today. Much easier to listen to, for example, the Appletree Theatre, which my computer is playing right now.
By the way, an unsolicited plug for Pandora: One day they played me a song that I immediately loved, and it turned out to be a Marmalade album cut that I already owned -- I'd never played the album it was on in its entirety.
I just saw Fleetwood Mac last week and well...lets just say
its not 1977 anymore ..and its sad
I'm glad I don't have tickets to see The Who or the Stones...I mean Mick Jagger is 75.
Who wants to see a 75 year old dance??
Hang on to your memories
10
@David
At least FM brought back Christine McVie, and included Neil Finn (Split Enz) and Mike Campbell (the Heartbreakers), who are great musicians in their own right. It ain't 1977, but at least they didn't mail it in.
7
Last week I saw the "Yardbirds" at The Egg in Albany. The drummer Jim McCarty was the only "real" Yardbird but the others were all excellent musicians and it was a great show. They played the tracks from the '60's I loved and also some deep cuts I' never heard. Screen projections behind them showed original band singing the same tunes, but it was inexact with no attempt at lip synching, though a bit disorienting.
4
Mott 74 is getting fantastic reviews, as they basically injected Morgan Fisher and Luther Grosvenor into Ian's Rant Band, which knows the material (playing together for nearly two full decades) and is tight as all get-out.
Ian Hunter is a treasure.
6
@mapleaforever
isn't Luther Grosenovor " Ariel Bender " of Mott Fame in the 1970's
and HE came from Spooky Tooth ( ' 60' s )
1
They say the reason Bob Dylan doesn't sound the same as he used to is that he has hired a string of "new Dylans" from the 70's through the 90's to tour for him, while he makes whiskey in Malibu. He is getting worried, because there have not been any "new Dylan's for a few decades.
1
Perhaps it's unfortunate bands like Blood, Sweat and Tears, Foreigner, Three Dog Night, Styx, Journey, Little River Band, Kiss etc. don't have their original members, but who cares?
These are not bands that changed Rock N Roll, had a particular sound or released seminal, career defining albums.
The music is derivative but popular for its day and they carry on to pay the bills, but doing so is not a blow to the spirit of Rock N Roll because they're not important enough to get upset about.
4
@T.W
Included in my ticket to the fair last year was a concert by the Pointer Sisters (one original gal with her daughter and granddaughter in the lineup). I wouldn’t have shelled out a lot of money for it but it was a lot of fun! My kids were mortified but who cares?
3
I'm not sure any rock musician has been less important to a band than D'Arcy Wretzky was. What an odd person to fixate on.
5
And what about the Melody Makers? Legal weapons, such as trademark, have nothing when you are Ziggy Marley! Growing into the record business is a new phenomenon, if web-based. Writing pro- or con-, the story is mired in business concerns. Usually, road shows are relegated to recording artists on this scale, Mott the Hoople. Wow, a reunion can go either way...like a break-up. Personalities here are not so important. Corporate rock sucks.
1
The Four Freshmen were established in 1948. They invented jazz harmony singing. Brian Wilson credits Bob Flannigan, the original Four Freshmen lead singer, as the inspiration for the Beach Boys. They also influenced Manhattan Transfer and others. The group has never stopped touring and performing since 1948. All of the originals are dead. Counting each personnel change they are now up to group #25 (26 men in all). They do not consider themselves a "tribute" band. They ARE the Four Freshmen, and they are a national treasure.
8
@JB The Four Freshman were phenomenal. But The Boswell Sisters were a very influential jazz harmony vocal group long before them. The Revellers were hugely influential in harmony jazz vocal in the 1920's. Not to mention The Mills Brothers.
1
@Kevin The other groups you mention were wonderful, but they are no longer performing. One slight correction: The Four Freshmen ARE (not were) phenomenal. They still tour and perform. They do some songs that the originals did (like Poinciana and their first big hit, It's a Blue World) as well as material that is new to them. Their most recent CD, Four Freshmen and Friends, was done by Group 24. While the songs on that CD are not new, the charts are. All of the charts but one were done by Curtis Calderon, who is an electrifying trumpet player as well as a wonderful singer. He has left the group and now performs in his native South Texas.
The Freshmen have lasted 71 years and are still performing. They are the longest continually touring jazz harmony group, and so far as I know there has never been any scandal attached to any of them. There is no other group that can say that.
2
Peter Hook tours every year through my area and I see him each and every time. He is billed as "Peter Hook Plays Joy Division (and some New Order songs). It is great every time and I don't feel cheated. I felt like I was watching Joy Division.
When New Order (finally after 30 years) toured this summer lead by Bernard Sumner it was amazing. I felt like I was watching New Order.
There was no "cheating" you knew who was coming and it was great to be transported back to your youth each and every time.
3
I guess with the prevalence of dinosaur and county fair rock acts it is easy to see that one of the giants of the no-original-band-members was overlooked: Napalm Death!
Formed in 1981, Napalm Death had constant turnover of band members until the group solidified into it's current lineup in 1991. Only one original member even appears on their recorded material, Nic Bullen, and he only managed to last out Side A of their first, ground breaking LP 'Scum'.
Dinosaurs of rock take note: if you're going to do the original band member shuffle, do it early and do it often, or don't do it at all.
3
@Chris I LOVE someone brought up Napalm Death in the NYT! Reading this article all I keep thinking of is the hoopla surrounding Black Flag & their variations.
Sigh, this sounds like a sour grapes article a bit. First off, the only people who think Peter Criss and Ace Freely were part of Kiss were people who are not Kiss, as neither Stanley or Simmons ever wanted them to be considered permanent band members. Only marketing did, and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame which never consulted the band members over it. So, in other words, you don't know Kiss if you think they are supposed to be part of them.
But secondly, exactly what do you want? People die, but the music lives on. I'd rather hear a band with some of the musicians then none. And you want people who are 60 to shred like they are 25? You need to bring in new band members just to play the songs you used to.
This is not new, and there is nothing wrong with it. People want to hear music, they want to hear it from as many of the original artists as they can, but bands break up, people die, people change....Yeah, you know, if you're going to drop money on a ticket, find out who's playing. Not hard in the age of search engines. :P
1
@D Collazo Peter and Ace weren't meant to be a part of KISS? Never heard that one before - and I've read about the band's history extensively. They were single-handedly responsible for the band's first radio hits - 'Beth' and 'New York Groove'. It was Gene and Paul who called the band's early days "a total democracy" that relied just as heavily on Peter and Ace's input as it did the other two.
7
That's amusing - that Kiss could "shred"... sure
Pose --yes. Shred - NO
Very good article. Thank you for it.
3
How can an article purporting to cover the "replacement" phenomenon in rock fail to mention one of the most famous. of all, QUEEN! They're touring this summer, with Roger Taylor and Brian May, (50% of the original group). They're not depressing, they've still got juice, and their music is still vibrant!
1
I wondered why Queen wan't mentioned. They have the hardest band member to replace (well..."fill in", as one could never "replace" Freddie Mercury), and doing so has divided Queen fans even though they bill it as "Queen Adam Lambert", not just Queen. I say rock on, as long as there are people who want to see you play.
I'm right there with you on Van Halen. Michael Anthony's bass playing is important, but his high background vocals are really integral to VH's sound (at least for me).
I suppose they can tour as Van Halen, but calling it a reunion without being reunited?
3
Jane's Addiction released a CD called Strays that WAS good but without the original bassist Eric Avery it didn't SWING. So it wasn't REALLY JA.
There is something about watching old rockers perform that saddens, if not depresses, so much that I can't bring myself to attend their concerts any longer. It's more than being reminded of my mortality and old age. It's the combination of the memories of sweet, joyful and carefree times that their music evokes with the present reality of my aching joints, failing eyesight, and other maladies of the advanced aging process. In other words, it's a form of mental torture.
I've tried just closing closing my eyes and letting the music and those ancient pleasant memories solely occupy my thoughts during concerts. But then I think I could be doing that at home and that I had just paid a lot of money to see a band that had enthralled me at the Fillmore or Winterland. So I open my eyes. And I see balding, gray-haired guys with beer bellies and wrinkled, unrecognizable faces belting out songs, backed by young musicians I've never heard of or seen previously. If that sight isn't enough to make you wish you stayed home, nothing would.
Then again, if those old rockers need to return to the stage so much, whether out of financial desperation, love of performing and/or a narcissistic disorder, that they are willing to risk disapproval, failure and even humiliation through poor ticket sales and concert attendance, and/or trademark infringement lawsuits from former band mates, then I say keep rockin' on dudes.
12
If you've ever stood on a stage (at any level) and belted
out a tune or mesmerized a crowd with your instrument - well, it's something you will never forget. And it's something you will surely miss. Regardless of how old you get. I totally get why so many can't give it up.(even though many should).
Plus it was a very shaky existence (at most levels). For 90% of all creative people it is one of THE worst returns on investment ever. But also something well worth doing. Because 90% of everyone will never know the feeling...
5
i think there is a subtle but distinct difference between the way bands either "evolve" as opposed to "resurrect". bands like fleetwood mac went through many different guitarists, but evolved to produce new and fresh music over time. same with bands like the allman bros. my favorite, the grateful dead, was always evolving from the get go, and ive always enjoyed the various iterations of the band. i love hearing the creative differences between good ol grateful dead and the now dead and co.......as for bands like the who (one of my all time favorite), who are resurrecting their umteenth "final" and "reunion" tour......or the stones.....yawn, zzzzzz, ill pass. if it smells stale, it probably is
1
Go see a good cover band or tribute act. They sound twice as good as the older bands do now, and you can usually see them in a more intimate setting with a meal and a beverage.
2
I do this all the time. I'm still in my early 30's, but I honestly prefer the tributes to the real thing in some cases. Paying $120 to see band on a stage a half mile away from my seats is not great. And the tribute bands, in some cases, really do sound better. They are superfans of the music, so they really take care to get little details right and do justice to music they admire.
Some of the real bands are clearly just going through the motions for a paycheck. It's very disappointing to see.
But more than anything, people should go see local bands. There are countless young groups -- some of them very talented -- that give it their all and really try to show you a great time. And it's usually $10 or free to watch them.
You might even see the next rock icon.
12
@Kevin
Brit/Aussie Floyd are a great example of what you are referring to. They play Pink Floyd note for note, with the same "anonymity" on stage as the original band (i.e. DSOTM and later). However, they're so good that $10 tickets don't exist -- they charge premium dollars to play at premium concert halls.
Having said that, David Gilmour works the old material quite well, thank you.
4
Even better, go see Pink Floyd drummer Nick Mason’s amazing band Saucerful of Secrets. Playing material only from the early Floyd era of 1967-1972, they pay tribute to seldom performed Floyd material, including a healthy dose of Syd Barrett songs. But this is by no means a tribute band, but rather a modern day interpretation of some great, overlooked music. If you get a chance, go!
6
I understand why any musician would want a shot at a bigger audience and some pay, but I really hate it when bands, original line-up or not, are taken out of cellophane to play the hits one more time when they are not prepped or are no longer up to the task. It's the performance that counts, and as long as key members who contribute the unique elements of a band's sound can still hold it together, I don't mind if they replaced some of the "backup" players, who contribute necessary but easily imitated parts.
4
I'm torn on this... The Ramones were known for rotating drummers, and DeeDee's addiction made them "adopt" a new brother, CJ for their last few albums... And I saw the Who with only Townshend and Daltrey in 2012, who consider their touring band (including Zak Starkey) as full members - and it was an amazing performance!
Then, there are bands who I'd never bother to see, for reasons besides rotating membership. The nostalgia of a Sex Pistols reunion was so antithetical to the ideas of the band - the same goes for the Dead Kennedys. Mick Jones and Paul Simonon don't use The Clash as a name for their no project, but Carbon/Silicon works, and they can always play "Lost in the Supermarket" if they want.
Perhaps Ian Hunter could just use The Rant Band - "with 1974 Mott" as his backing band. After all, he still did Mott songs as a solo artist quite well, with an audience choir singing along...
1
@anastasi
The Rant Band IS the backing band.
@anastasi
I never listened to or followed Mott the Hoople but I can tell you the only name I ever associated with that band was Ian Hunter.
1
@anastasi
I never listened to or followed Mott the Hoople but I can tell you the only name I ever associated with that band was Ian Hunter. So for me Ian Hunter IS Mott the Hoople, and I still will probably never listen to them.
1
I was at the second to the last Lynyrd Skynyrd show in October of 1977. The plane crashed and that was it for me. What has masqueraded as Lynyrd Skynyrd since is a bar band doing covers. On the flip side, I would go see Paul Westerberg or Ian Hunter in whatever they wanted to call their band. Who can say? I suppose that if the heartbeat is still there...
5
For the last ten years, I've been writing reviews of albums and concerts and conducting artist interviews for several music publications. In that time, I've discovered so many young, unheralded musicians that fans of 60's and 70's "classic rock" would adore. This article demonstrates why there's no better time to keep an open mind and give some new artists a chance. Algorithm driven streaming services make that easier than ever. Gone are the days of shelling out 20 dollars for a CD by an unknown musician and hoping for the best. Let an up and coming musician show you that blues, country and no-nonsense three chord rock are alive and well.
4
I'm surprised this article didn't discuss Yes more. They're the case I think of first when this issue comes up.
The band went through countless permutations and by the time the late 80s rolled around there were no original members left. When the original members of the time wanted to do a reunion tour they had to do so as "Anderson-Bruford-Wakeman-Howe" because the mutated group owned the Yes name.
11
@todji And until just recently we've had "Yes featuring ARW", baldly promoted as a more real version of Yes by the band's 1970s manager Brian Lane. Although in recent interviews Jon Anderson says that group is on indefinite hiatus. So we may soon see an Anderson-Howe version of Yes again. While these guys are all still alive it appears anything's possible!
2
@todji
You are incorrect about one thing, Chris Squire was a constant member until his death, he owned the name after Jon Anderson left the band to join up with Vangelis, which was the reason for the ABWH band name, who had the superb Tony Levin playing bass. Since Squire's death, the right to the title fell to guitarist Steve Howe, who joined on the third album. Jon Anderson has since begun using the name for AWR. Is any of this still YES?
2
I liked the way Elvis Costello handled it. Once he lost a member of The Attractions the group became Elvis Costello and the Imposters.
They were still great!
24
It was interesting seeing two different lineups of The Zombies back to back on the Odyssey and Oracle tour. The current lineup played first and wasn't my cup of tea at all. But when the (as close as they could get to it) classic Odyssey lineup played the entire record for the second set it was pure magic.
2
In 1969 when "Time of the Season" was a hit in the U.S., The Zombies had already broken up. Undeterred, American promoters simply hired local musicians to perform The Zombies songs. Not as cover or tribute bands, but advertised as the actual British Zombies. One of these lineups included two of the main members of ZZ Top.
4
@BenR I love that story, so insane!
1
I'm old enough to have attended the Beatles concert in 1965 at Shea Stadium, and spent many an enjoyable evening at the Fillmore East. I saw the Police and U2 at small venues when each had only one album released, and predicted they would be monstrously big. When I accidentally saw Greta Van Fleet on SNL in January, I couldn't take my eyes off them, when most musical acts on that program cause me to change the channel after 10 seconds. Since they're already playing stadiums around the world, I'll have to watch YouTube to see what they're up to. Re predictions of success, hopefully, my winning streak will continue. Rock on, boys!
4
Yeah, cuz only guys rock out
2
@Chris F
I think they take alot out of the Led Zeppelin playbook
3
Ya Chris, be very careful what you say...we're almost outta the Teens -EVERYTHING has changed don't ya know ?
This is the problem when a concert experience is more a cult of personality than about music. "Classical music", jazz and other genres do not have this problem as it relies upon a changing cast of stars and supporting performers to carry on the music. ("Classic rock" also by definition is "historical").
Works of music and their performance will be truly judged when the baggage of the original performer and their culture is cast by the wayside. The only criteria then is the value of the musical idea itself and the success of the current performance of that idea.
6
It's the quality and energy of the performance that matters to me, not who's in the band. Of course, seeing the original iteration of a band is best, but one can't always be in the right place, time, or be old enough to have seen it. What's beyond the pale is for a band to be performing to prerecorded music and vocals though, which one of the prominent bands mentioned in this article is said to be doing on their current tour. If I wanted that, I would have gone to a K-pop concert, guys!
2
Those critical of these musical acts should remember that they’re composed of people who are just trying to make a living. Most have no pretense of being artists or world-changers, they’re just doing the only thing they’ve ever done to put food on the table.
I watched a complete Foreigner concert on TV recently. Mick Jones had the good sense to hire a singer who sounds quite like Lou Gramm, and I’m sure 99.999% of concert attendees on that tour came away happy. These big musical acts are brands, and as long as the brand is being respected and protected, I say have at it.
My only two rules would be that there must be some kind of founding presence in the band, and more importantly, the signature sounds, be they vocal or otherwise, be reproduced as faithfully as possible.
5
I always thought that no original members was a tribute band.
5
Actually, tribute bands are my solution to this problem. I have “seen” The Smiths, Fleetwood Mac, The Clash, David Bowie (after his regretted passing), Neil Young and Devo in the past year, all on small stages in small clubs for very little money in the past year, and each one was a more joyful experience than paying a big price to see some version of the original in a huge venue.
8
It's the artists, and their music not the named band that has me going to shows. Poco, with Rusty Young touring; Jim Messina 'sittin in', and sometimes, Richie Furay.
Just saw Peter Asher (of Peter and Gordon fame) playing with Jeremy Clyde (of Chad and Jeremy) playing the oldies.
The original Rascals; I saw the BST 25th anniversary shows of "Child' with the original cast.
Saw CSN & Y all together a few years ago at Jones.
Elton John, Fleetwood Mac last month. Billy Joel. Van. JT and Carol King; Stevie Wonder, Elvin Bishop (who can really bring it); and my new favs: the Mavericks; Arlo, Judy, Del and Dawg; Bela. Phil and friends.
The old, the new, it's all rock and roll, and folk and bluegrass and call it whatever else you want. Big venues, small stages.
If you like great music, get out and go.
2
I regularly drive past billboards advertising upcoming concerts at two Native American casinos near where I live. The concept of rock bands with performers not part of the bands' original (or most famous) line-ups is a common theme in the billboards' imagery. It's common to see a photo of the band featuring two gray-haired musicians, along with performers who are clearly 30 or even 40 years younger than they are.
As I drive by these billboards, I can't help but look for the small lettering at the top which reads:
"Two of the original members of..."
Followed by huge lettering in the middle that says:
"Blue Oyster Cult"
and then in small lettering at the bottom which reads:
"..and a few other guys."
1
saw Led Zeppelin and The Who several times back in the late 60s and early 70s...glad that Zeppelin avoided touring forever...wouldn't see The Who now without John or Keith, and even though they may put on an OK show, they're far from the performances of old...a quick look at upcoming local shows: Big Brother and the Holding Company, Allman Betts (Brothers), Felix Cavaliere's Rascals, Jay and the Americans (without the original Jay), and, of course a number of Tribute Bands...really, these half groups are essentially their own Tribute Band...
9
I would go see the Rascals with just Felix. He wrote and sang the great hits. He is an important artist where Kiss, Styx and Little River Band are disposable annoyances.
13
@Jim
Zep and The Who are interesting in this regard. There are bands who are one or two people and a collection of fill-ins/session people. Steely Dan was largely of this scheme. Other groups are cohesive communities of shared creativity and consistencey, like The Band.
Zep and the Who are in between. Zep was created by Jimmy Page, hired a street singer, Robert Plant, and filled in with two superb blues players, Bonham and Jones, who contributed greatly to the band's sound.
Later, Page and Plant became the visible image of Zep, fully deserving to carry the LZ name when they chose (or implied).
The Who ARE Pete Townshend's band, but they would never have been who they were without the ridiculously important Keith Moon and John Entwistle. Townshend has admitted this in interviews, relegating, perhaps humorously, that Roger Daltry is "just a rock vocalist." But with Keith and John now dead, Townshend and Daltry are now (justifiably) The Who.
Eric Clapton does fine very rarely using the names Cream, Blind Faith, or Derek and the Dominoes. While he shared artistic capacity in all those bands, his standalone efforts (Eric and the Session People) are deservedly his alone.
Was Brian Wilson actually really the only Beach boy?
Peter Green gave Fleetwood Mac its name predicting that Mick Fleetwood and John McVie would be the long-standing core of the group, and neither of them has ever really been the visible creative center of this ridicuously successful 50+ year old band.
3
@Jim While Moon and Entwhistle were an integral and crucial part of the Who sound, they are not as indispensable as Townsend/Daltry. I feel the same way about Jones/Bonham Vs. Page/Plant. The singer matters, as do the songwriters.
1
Foreigner takes it one step further: Not only does one, when going to a Foreigner concert, not get Lou Gramm (the guy who sang all the hits from “Feels like the First Time” to “I Don’t Want to Live Without You”) singing, but also, when you buy a $5 Foreigner CD at Wal*Mart, you get a CD with either post-Gramm live versions of the songs or straight up studio re-recordings of the songs without Gramm at the helm.
2
@strenholme .... Many bands re-record their old catalogue. The reason is Warner's owns the original Foreigner "master recordings". By re-recording the songs, Foreigner - or Mick Jones - gets all the money from CD sales..... Gramm still gets his songwriting royalties.
4
Grace Slick said "All rock-and-rollers over the age of 50 look stupid and should retire." A bit harsh, but I see her point. I find these reconstituted bands with no or one original member to be sad, kind of like those tribute bands. I would much rather watch them preserved in their prime on YouTube. And these bands from the 70's were so talented - current music is not very good in comparison. I recently came across a video where the drummer was doing what looked like to be a drum solo and simultaneously singing - and he was doing it live. That is pretty amazing.
1
@Chat Cannelle
Speaking of Grace, her former band provides a classic example of how a band’s name become a contentious contractural point resulting, in this case, in Jefferson Airplane, Jefferson Starship, Starship and no doubt further permutations...
Styx? Journey? Foreigner? KISS?!?! Most of the bands discussed in this article were horrible WITH all of the original members. Frank Zappa was right: with very few exceptions, musical quality exists in inverse proportion to commercial potential. That said, touring bands flogging old music played by 2 or fewer original members is sad, very sad. Don’t stop believin’!
9
As my musical roots were planted in the '60s, a few notes:
1. Canned Heat - part of the Woodstock 50 line-up - tours without its frontmen, Bob "The Bear' Hite and Alan Wilson.
2. The "Fleetwood Mac" of 1974 was not the group with which I fell in love. The three-guitar attack of Peter Green, Jeremy Spencer and Danny Kirwan surpasses anything that followed (to me).
3. As "Child is Father to the Man" is my favorite album ever, (not what I consider "the best"), for me, when Al Kooper left Blood Sweat and Tears, it was over.
I'd have no problem seeing Ian Hunter front a band called Mott The Hoople, but seeing the Velvets with no one? That just ain't right.
8
Geez, all that "Corporate Rock" was boring back in the day. Are we to believe it got better over time? Oh well, I guess some folks need to pay the rent.
3
All the more reason to love The Stones (minus Bill Wyman, of course)
2
@tom from jersey.... and Brian Jones!!
2
Its simple. Rock bands should be required to be named like law firms, with the names of the band members listed in relation to their importance. the Who would instead be: Townsend, Daltrey, Moon & Entwistle. The Stones would be: Jagger, Richards, Jones, Watts, & Wyman. The current touring versions would be Townsend, Daltrey, et al, Jagger, Richards, Watts, Wood et al. You know when Jones isn't with Foreigner and when Kim Deal isnt with the Pixies. Easy.
1
And yet The Stones keep Rolling.
Keith Richards is still alive.
I want to be on his health plan.
26
@John
Keith Richards' "health plan" was to pick the right parents.
1
@John
I think I would rather be on Jagger's health plan.
@John And, when the end of the world comes, only cockroaches, twinkies, and Richards will remain.
2
I figure if the original vocalist and lead guitarist are present, it's close enough. No offense intended to drummers, but changing them out doesn't change the sound that much.
A few years ago Jimmy Page and Robert Plant toured as Plant and Page. They didn't call themselves Led Zeppelin but most of the set was Led Zep hits. I couldn't tell the difference.
7
@Jomo Saw Page and Plant twice in Philadelphia and they were both incredible shows. I'm pretty sure that everybody in the arena got a contact high !!
2
Well, at least in the case of the Replacements, there's truth in advertising.
20
In my 70s, I like bands that are still making music, especially regional bands that sell their own music online and tour. I can’t stand these oldies tours with singers who are off pitch, and who have lost their vocal range, if they ever had one. Occasionally, I’ll see an oldie show where I am knocked out by the performance, like Buddy Guy or the astounding voice of Judy Collins who can still hit all the notes. Or I like a night of young musicians playing famous covers, like the ones I saw last fall at Wolf Trap in suburban DC. As for the fake oldies groups, I’ll pass.
8
@John Smith
Colin Blunstone doesn't have the vocal range he did back in the day, but when I saw the video of the Metropolis Studios concert where the living members of the original group performed Odessey and Oracle in its entirely, I cried. I would kill to have been there live.
2
I've got a ticket to see Mott, 74 and I understood what I was getting into when I bought my ticket. How is it a problem if members of a group continue to play their greatest hits to adoring fans? All I know is once I hear the opening piano on "All The Way To Memphis" I'll have a big smile on my face. I say, aging rockers, hangers on and newcomers please keep delivering! Your music makes people feel good.
24
I think the honesty of a band changing members matters. For example, the Allman Brothers Band lost two founding members very early on, but never pretended to be the exact same band whenever the four surviving original members put together a new iteration (most of which also recorded original music of their own, and never attempted to sound exactly like the first iteration when playing live). Even after they fired original member Dickey Betts, the final (and longest running, by quite a long stretch) version of the band seldom played the songs most associated with him.
5
For god sakes, go see a new band. Relive past glories by cranking up the vinyl and smoking a joint, or make up a fresh batch of Purple Jesus.
There is only one artist over 60 who I would pay big money to see - Tom Waits. Other than that, I like to visit small clubs and hear some new stuff, and no I am not the only grey-locked, black levis - clad misanthrope in the hall.
Now, lower the lights, turn on the lava lamp, and sit back to absorb some warm, embracing vinyl.
31
@johhnyb
I haven't heard anybody mention Purple Jesus in ages! Ah, the memories :-D
4
@johhnyb
Tom Waits is not an oldies attraction.
It’s sad to watch some of these bands and compare them to the originals. Just sad.
1
Really, nowadays all these bands are the Replacements.
10
I am beginning to consider myself lucky that I tend to get tired of music over time and am constantly looking for new music. I saw a number of classic late 60's and 70's bands in their prime but now I'm only occasionally interested in hearing a song or two they did from time to time. I don't consider the older music bad or flawed, I'm just tired of it.
When finding newer music I often get to see a band in one of it's earliest incarnations with "original" members.
I was lucky enough to be in London a few weeks ago and saw a number of bands I've discovered in the last few years or saw bands I'd never heard of before. I had an amazing time and saw some wonderful performances. The two oldest bands I saw were The Dandy Warhols (on their 25th anniversary tour) and Flunk. However I really only started listening to them back in 2008 so even their older stuff is relatively new to me.
There are an amazing number of new bands out there if one looks for them. I was blown away at the number of venues and shows in London. I was able to see a show every week night often for the price of a CD at Rough Trade East or free. There were some stinkers in the mix, but for the most part there was a lot of great music. I saw 22 bands/artists over 10 nights.
My favorite (new to me) bands I saw were Penelope Isles (who recently played a SXSW), Public Practice (out of NYC), Vanishing Twin, Blood Red Shoes and Chemtrails.
5
When Lowell George died quite young, the other members of Little Feat said there was no more Little Feat. Then the money came knocking. But they were right.
6
When I was writing about pop music for the Calgary Herald during the 1970s, a group billed as The Platters played at a hotel in town. I became suspicious after interviewing the lead singer. When I checked with the Buck Ram organization in Las Vegas, which held the rights to the name, I learned that the group playing in Calgary had no permission to call themselves The Platters. My editor, Al Rach, wrote a great headline for my column: "Oh yes, they're the Great Pretenders." We never heard back from the imitators.
7
A, A, we're the Robots
People say mechanical
But we will never stop touring
Cos we won’t ever break down
A group with no original members?
Fairport Convention was doing that 20 years ago, before it was cool
3
@I Shall Endure
Actually, Simon Nicol has been there since Day 1, and Dave Pegg since Day 2, circa 1969. After retiring in 1979 they held a reunion festival in 1980, which has evolved into an annual event that draws 20,000 people to a village in Oxfordshire. Meanwhile they rebooted themselves with a couple new people in 1985 and have been going strong ever since.
2
I'm sorry - this 'process' has been going on since, oh, the early 60s at the very least.
What exactly makes this 'news?'
1
@manta666
What makes it news is that people (largely baby boomers, of which I am one) are discovering their expectations aren't being met (which are seldom my expectations, as it happens).
And it's that those expectations weren't valid, ever.
So it makes a good news filler.
1
Kim Deal was not just the bassist. Her vocal parts were a big part of their sound. Cheap Trick without Bun E. Carlos? Forget about it.
7
I’ll say what we’re all thinking. It isn’t the Sabs without Bill Ward.
2
Quite frankly, you may as well go and see a cover band.
2
As far as authenticity and honesty go, the Sex Pistols cannot be beat. Remember the 1996 reunion tour with all four original members and aptly named "Filthy Lucre." To quote Johnny from memory:''We're fat and we're back!"
10
How can you write an article about rock band branding without untangling the complicated web of Jefferson Airplane/Starship and Yes/Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe/Anderson Rabin Wakeman? Oh, and what about all of the permutations of the Supremes, the Temptations, the O'Jays, etc.?
9
Hey, what good is it to have someone like President Trump in the White House if he can’t fix problems like this? He should issue the “two guys edict,” which is you can’t use the old name unless you have at least two survivors. So The Who is OK, barely. And if you have just one then it must be “Joe Smith and the new X Band.” If you’re down to zero then something like “Joe Smith and a tribute to the X Band.”
This would give our President something harmless to do, and it might keep him from arbitrarily doing his things that actually hurt people.
13
@Jerry Schulz
Joe Smith wasn't IN X , it was John Doe !!!
1
Even folk bands from the 40's and 50's changed personnel. The Almanac Singers had so many different members it was hard to keep track of anyone but Pete Seeger. Both Woodie Guthrie and Lee Hays were members.
Later, Hays and Seeger formed The Weavers, and when Seeger left, after blacklisting, Erik Darling replaced him, who then moved on to the Rooftop Singers with the hit "Walk Right In".
We saw Gladys Knight and the Pips on a cruise. While the Pips change over, Knight was the key.
Last month, the Oscars opened with Queen, but only 2 original members were there.
It seems to me that if the creative force behind a distinctive sound leaves, it's not the same. Even the Rolling Stones require Keith Richards and Mick Jagger or....they are not the Stones.
BS&T was an interesting example. The first album, with Al Kooper "Child is Father To the Man" was utterly different than the Spinning Wheel album when Dave Clayton-Thomas joined--and Kooper left.
But...most of the golden oldies bands are really just ossified, nothing new under the sun.
And the moment you hear , or see the the David Clayton Thomas Blood Sweat & Tears, you know why Kooper left....
Loved the article and the comments too. No mention of the Grateful Dead but that’s understandable I guess. They clearly changed their name somewhat to “The Dead” and soldiered on without Jerry. But they were always something of a collective with varying keyboardists, vocals, guests, etc. not to mention side projects. This was unlike most 60s/70s rock warhorses. They’ll continue on pretty much until the human race is extinct, I guess. There were more than a few references in the article and the comments using the construct: would be with . It’s funny once. Hey, let’s not forget that Ron Wood was paired with Rod Stewart for the first half of his career. (And guess who had the better half of their career?) And then there’s the band named for one artist and various musicians, like The Magnetic Fields. Funny, too, the references to Hawkwind. I’m hoping all these comments aren’t 50/60/70 year old white men like me and there’s more of a varied audience, but alas, it doesn’t read that way.
1
Yeah, my neighbor knew I was a big Humble Pie fan and they were touring Canada last year and coming to Ottawa. I don't think any of the original members were in the tour and lamented that young fans who may have attended the concert will never know how good they really were unless they check out You Tube. Without Steve Marriot's voice (he died in the 1980's) there is no Humble Pie. (Go to You Tube and watch "I don't need no doctor".). That's why I live in the past.
3
In the past few years I've seen Bowie, Blondie, and the Talking Heads, among other greats from my earlier years. All the hits for not more than a 10 spot to get in, cheap beer, and plenty of free parking. No pretensions, lots of fun. Find a tribute band of dedicated musicians in your locale and reminisce!
4
You act like this is new. Ever heard of the Count Basie Orchestra? It was formed in 1938. Count Basie died in 1984. The Orchestra still plays over a hundred shows a year internationally. Nobody seems particularly upset.
18
@TLibby Glenn Miller disappeared in a plane during World War II. The World Famous Glenn Miller Orchestra is still playing. The Four Freshmen is the longest continuously touring jazz vocal group ever, founded in 1948 and touring and performing since.
All of these groups are still wonderful.
3
If you want to hear old rock, put on the record, CD or MP3. If you want to hear live music, go down to your local music hall, bar or performance space and check out something new. I guaranty you will find something to suit your musical tastes,
Support the up and coming artists who actually need the support and are creating great new sounds. #TheAccidentals, #JenSygit, #OneForTheFoxes, #GretaVanFleet and a host of others.
9
@Thomas , thanks for the recommendations! I'm 57, so I've loved many bands and many kinds of music (rock, jazz, Classical, punk, indie, ska, Maxwell's-era indie, etc.) in my life. Lately I've been doing mostly the record/mp3/Youtube thing, because I've heard little-to-nothing that's new these days that feels and sounds authentic and interesting, and I'm not even sure where to look.
I'm kind of rooting for Greta Van Fleet, although I think they need more time to ripen and find more of their own sound (not that I haven't loved Zeppelin to the point of worship at times in my life!). But I'm on the hunt for new, truly original, guitar-driven, non-autotuned non-pandering-drivel music. (I should say that I love Amy Winehouse, but only figured that out after she died, as is the case more often than I care to admit.)
My musician/composer son dearly loves Dream Theater and a few other prog-type bands in addition to Classical and jazz, but "contemporary" prog doesn't quite do it for me.
So feel free to suggest away! I would love to support truly talented young musicians--although I will be supporting the Stones to the tune of almost $450 per ticket this summer if they all take their vitamins until then. :)
1
@NGB
I should have mentioned in my original comment that a good litmus test for me was always (to paraphrase Marie Kondo) "Do they spark joy?" GVF does. May they rock for many years to come!
2
@Chris F , that's a litmus test I can embrace!
I probably haven't given GVF enough of a chance yet. And I certainly can't discount the potential of a contemporary band so clearly enthralled with Zeppelin (which I WOULD go and see if Page and Plant would play nicely, even without Mr. Bonham--tribute bands and/or reconfigured ones without the original members just wouldn't cut it).
1
Add to this labyrinth the cover bands that simply do a well-known band's music without having an original member. How many Dead cover bands are there? Beatles?
1
@Joyce Shelley: Many years ago, I was bored one night and went to see one of the first Beatles cover bands at a local club. I expected it to be lame, but better than drinking alone. I walked in as they were beginning "Lovely Rita". The whole audience burst in to a spontaneous sing-along, even including the heavy breathing part. It was the same, whatever song they played.
It wasn't the Beatles, but it was great.
9
"So Hunter will tour with the guitarist and keyboard player who joined Mott for its anticlimactic 1974 swan song, 'The Hoople.'" Interesting topic, but would argue the Mott The Hoople '74 case is a poor example, since there were no tours with the band name for over 40 years. Furthermore, for many Mott fans, 'anti-climatic' is the last expression one would employ for the 'The Hoople' LP and tour, captured on their 'Live' LP, both of which featured Ariel Bender and Morgan Fisher.
1
@cgpublic
Mott reformed for a number of dates (UK only) in 2009 and, again, in 2013. It was the original line-up (I've got concert recordings from both reunions and a performance DVD of the 2013 show, which were fantastic. This included Buffin, who was there mostly in name only -- he was too sick to play, so Martin Chambers (Pretenders) filled in in all but very few numbers. Since then Dale (Buffin) Griffin and Peter "Overend" Watts has passed, so Mott 74 is what we have (i.e. the Rant band plus Morgan Fisher and Luther Grosvenor (Ariel Bender).
The oldies circuit has been ever thus. A money grab made possible by nostalgia. It’s all good clean fun and no one gets hurt. But it’s not the place to look for creativity. You can’t help loving the music you heard when you were about fourteen... proven fact. Glad it was The Beatles for me!
6
Rock and pop music are like fast food. It's pretty good when it is hot and you are young. But it can be really sad when it is reheated leftovers.
31
What constitutes the "real band" is entirely subjective. For years, Van Halen was derisively referred to as "Van Hagar" after Sammy replaced David Lee Roth as the lead singer. But they still recorded and toured... until they kicked Sammy out and brought back Dave.
Meanwhile, KISS has been touring for years in various incarnations. In spite of some fan backlash, Gene and Paul insist that because they are the founders, it's still KISS. They have even mentioned the possibility of having KISS continue AFTER they've left the band, presumably suiting up new recruits in face-paint and leather.
3
Even better, there are 2 bands, both claiming to be The Temptations out there touring.
3
Nowadays, audiences accept this kind of thing, perhaps because they don’t want to acknowledge change and loss of what excited them as young people.
In the past, they weren’t always so accepting. A case in point: In the late 1970s, the mega popular band Deep Purple (of Smoke on the Water fame) had broken up (temporarily, it would turn out). A promoter located the earlier lead singer of the band working in a hospital, and recruited him and some no-name musicians to tour internationally under the name Deep Purple. When audiences at concert venues figured out they’d been scammed, there were some ugly scenes, including one at a club in Staten Island. The current band’s management went after the ex-singer, who had to surrender any rights to royalties for the albums on which he’d sung. If only he had waited 40 years.
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@CA Meyer
Good comment. Rod Evans was the original singer for the first three Deep Purple albums. He went on to be a founding member of Captain Beyond with Bobby Caldwell from the Johnny Winter Band, along with Lee Dorman and Rhino from Iron Butterfly. Oddly enough, I’m going to see Captain Beyond on April 13th in the Detroit area. Lee and Rhino have passed away, Rod Evans is still working as a physical therapist, so Bobby Caldwell is the only original member left. Rod Evans signed away song writing royalties in lieu of the $600,000 Deep Purple judgement against him. He could have had a decent royalty income, otherwise, for the last 30 years, had he not made that one mistake. He never went back to the music business.
2
Surprisingly enough, Black Sabbath and Aerosmith are two of the only bands from that era I can think of that still have all of their original members alive (and they were both noted as being the craziest of their era!).
I saw Black Sabbath on their first reunion tour
(after drummer Bill Ward got through health problems) and it was one of the best shows I've seen in any genre.
5
@Ignatius J. Reilly I don’t think Sabbath fits into the theme of this article because as Sabbath fans we have come to expect an ever-changing band with one critical anchor: Iommi. As someone in his 50s, listening to Sabbath for more than four decades and now listening to them with his sons, I see them differently. I watched the Live Aid reunion as a boy and saw the reunion tour in NYC. I loved every original lineup minute but I didn’t hope for a permanent reunion. Over the years, I accepted all forms of the band. I just found a vinyl version of Forbidden at a San Jose record store and snapped it up. Sometimes even the trademark doesn’t matter. For me, Heaven and Hell, with the late Dio, was Sabbath. Tony Iommi, and the lineup he chooses for his latest experimentation and stamp on the genre, is Sabbath. But change in Sabbath is more than just lineup. Black Sabbath the album sounds vastly different from Sabotage. Never Say Die! couldn’t be any more different than Paranoid. Change in Sabbath was constant and addictive. I would love another album with Martin, Gillen or how about the lead singer from Windhand? Black Sabbath, long ignored by mainstream media, will always stand above and apart because of their influence, longevity, and ability to create amazing music through constant internal and external change.
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I believe the New York Philharmonic does not have any of its original members either.
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@Quasar And they don't write their own songs!
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@Quasar I believe you win the internet with that!
3
I saw The Beach Boys about 20 years ago at some company party. They had one guy who looked propped up possibly playing keyboard and two other stand in’s and the singer.
I also saw Kraftwerk perform 4-5 years ago and one of the four guys couldn’t have been over 40.
At least they weren’t holograms!
5
Old rockers trying to make a buck. Eh, let them be, we all need drug money ;-)...some for legal and some for illegal...to me there is no difference.
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To be fair about these groups lacking their original members, I now show up at these reunion concerts without any much of my original hair, waistline, and alcohol tolerance.
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Some Beatles fans I know are hoping for a "Beatles reunion" with Dhani Harrison and Sean Lennon or Julian Lennon replacing George and John. That would NOT be a "Beatles reunion." Just like Jason Bonham replacing John Bonham would NOT be a "Led Zeppelin reunion."
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@susan Yes and the story might have noted that McCartney, Starr and Harrison (when he was still with us) all insisted there could be no Beatles without John Lennon. It's interesting that the band that, during its heyday, was tightest both musically and personally (before Epstein's death), even 25 years thereafter insisted only the original lineup was the real thing. They always had it right.
5
If you go back to the 1950's you discover a situation where one group of people would make a recording under a name, while two or three other groups of people would tour different parts of the country under that same name. It was considered a business, and individuals were secondary to the bottom line. If you look to the 1960's, you learn about the Wrecking Crew; an unorganized but talented group of studio musicians who played on most of the big California hits under dozens of "name" artists and groups. The hapless group, Milli Vanilli were considered frauds for lip-syncing to recordings and claiming it was their own voices. However, we now have singers lip-syncing to their own voices right in front of audiences that pay hundreds of dollars to see the singers. One would hope if they are paying that much money, they'd actually get to hear them really sing. But that's show biz. Fake it till you make it seems to be the mantra, followed by, once you make it, keep faking it. During their 50th anniversary tour, Mick Jagger said of the Rolling Stones, "I don't see how this can be a reunion tour when most of the people on stage weren't around when we started." He's right. Only three original Rolling Stones were there. Still, it didn't stop them. They made millions. As long as people will buy the tickets, someone will sell the goods. So, with this in mind, when can we expect a reunion tour by The Beatles?
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What this article fails to even mention is that the litmus test of fake vs. authentic lies not in who is an original member, but in whether the current lineup is a creative productive group that is creating original music that fans love. In most of the cases cited here, they are definitely sham bands that produce nothing of value. But rock history is rich with examples of the second or third iteration of a band being considered the “classic” lineup. Examples from the 70s include Pink Floyd, Deep Purple, Fleetwood Mac (with Buckingham/Nicks), and Journey (Steve Perry was not in the original lineup). The classic versions of those bands had shed key original members. Having said that, you’ve got to respect bands like Led Zeppelin who refused to play this game.
14
This question is as old as the Greeks, when it was known as the Ship of Theseus problem: If you take Theseus's ship, and change out the boards one at a time as they begin to rot, eventually all of the original boards will have been replaced. At that point, is it still Theseus's ship? If not, when did it stop being Theseus's ship? With the first board? at 50%? When the board who wrote all the songs is replaced? Heraclitus answered with the famous observation that you cannot step into the same river twice. Is U2 even the "same" band they were in 1980?
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@MIke -- yeah. I've always heard it as the story of George Washington's axe. The handle has been replaced three times and the blade twice, but it's George Washington's original axe.
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These bands are following a long established road. Many big band era orchestras are still touring such as the Tommy Dorsey Orchestra and Glenn Miller Orchestra. A live performance that respects the style of the original will always be special, even if the original members can no longer participate.
5
We saw The Beach Boys wednesday night . Only 2 originals left . But they hired good replacements and their songs carried the day . Everyone had a good time . We knew going in that it would not be the real thing - it no longer exists .
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@GPG I saw The Beach Boys in 1974. I was confused by all of the additional musicians on stage with the band. Years later I learned that the original Beach Boys couldn't really play their instruments very well, and that Wrecking Crew musicians not only recorded the instrumental tracks, they actually were on stage in live shows. Their instruments were plugged in, while the Beach Boys were unplugged. I know a guy who was the tour drummer for The Monkeys. Alas, they weren't all that great with their gear either. The Wrecking Crew played backup on Mr. Tamborine Man by The Byrds, with only one member of the group actually playing on the record, and that guy was a former studio musician. It goes on and on, and I really don't care except for the fact that it costs so much money to see these acts, and they aren't really who they say they are, or doing what they are known to do. Give me a good old garage band in a dive bar who pour their hearts into it, and let it all fall where it can. Now, that's rock and roll.
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@Michael Kennedy Look up the new song The Wrecking Crew by The Tearaways.
@Michael Kennedy
I was an enormous Beach Boy fan in the '50s, still have all of the first dozen or so albums. Still love the music (and so do my daughters). Since then, when my wife offers to get tickets when they're in or near town, I decline. They were never the Beach Boys I knew from records.
Roger McGuin won't play with old Byrds members any more. He was the lone musician from the group on the first recordings. But he tours solo in their stead.
The Monkees were a manufactured band anyway, though composed of reasonable musicians. Mickey Dolenz was a guitarist the producers turned into a drummer for the show. Mike Nesmith was a country artist and composer (Ronstadt's "Different Drum"). Tork reporttedly became a more accomplished multi-instrumentalist only after the band formed and went independent.
So all in all, what does history tell you?
The biggest story here could have been the Grateful Dead, whose musical lodestar, the late great Jerry garcia, died at the young but very worn age of 53 back in 95. First they called themselves the Dead, leaving out the Grateful, then they did a Grateful Dead turn a few years ago.
Narrator voice: It wasn't anything close to the Grateful Dead.
3
@pjc Not quite right. After Garcia died they permanently retired the Grateful Dead name, and the first couple of post-Jerry bands comprised of several surviving members used the name The Other Ones. They then used The Dead when all of the "core four" survivors got together for a few tours, and now three of the core four are in Dead & Co. (and different pairs have been in Furthur, The Rhythm Devils, and a handful of other shorter term projects). The Grateful Dead name has never been applied to any configuration since, though the Fare Thee Well band from 2015 was billed as a celebration of the Grateful Dead, in their 50th anniversary year.
7
@pjc - Saw The Dead @ The Cap in the early 70's. Um, wait, did I? So hard to remember…
1
@Miss Anne Thrope
The second set was killer.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_bXHbUqOd0
Shouldn't we distinguish between bands whose lineups change/evolve over time, but maintain a constant presence, and bands that dissolve for many years, then reform for the nostalgia phase? Both may be legit, but it's the second type that is open to doubt.
At an extreme level, you'd have to say that once the Beatles replaced their original drummer they weren't the Beatles. A step further down the road, the Roling Stones or Pink Floyd ceased to be when Brian Jones or Syd Barret fell off the roster. And then there's the ever-shifting lineup at Hawkwind, clearly an "authentic" band that tours and records relentlessly but one that's had at least 40 members over the last 50 years.
The ones that reform because someone craves the limelight, or needs a bit of cash, well, as long as they're honest about what you're getting, so what? Sure helps if the ones doing it include the key original members, of course.
What you describe Blood Sweat & Tears doing is the real travesty. Basically create a series of cover bands to play the music and pretend it's the band.
10
Seems to me that promoters are trying to squeeze big money out of concert go-ers of a certain age. I'd just as soon stay home and listen to my favorite bands' music than try to 'stay hip' and go to a live show. The recordings sound better, and I've already sunk a bunch of money on buying the music on multiple formats over so many years. That said, seeing Ian Hunter play with an assembly of very talented musicians in a small venue is a very rewarding experience. Check it out.
@Ann
I've read about older bands who make a very good living on the secondary circuit of county fairs and such. They get paid well and have appreciative audiences, which seems to me a nice deal for older musicians who may not have the millions we often think they do and really do need to continue working for a living.
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@mossdalw
I believe what you say is true. I live in a city with a lot of venues for live music. I'm thinking more of $125 a head for Bryan Ferry or similar. We used to have some places where you could see "Thin Lizzy" for $25 - it was really the original drummer and three guys who bought the right to the name. I heard the Monkees made tons of money doing State fairs in the 80s. Good times
1
I love some bands enough to really care about who is on stage playing. Other times, I love the music, and I really don't care who is playing.
I saw a band, called Tributosaurus, 'become' a new iconic band every month, and it was always a celebration of the music. I saw them perform Peter Gabriel, and I thought it was better than the original because they covered so much more of his catalog than Peter ever would.
Conversely, the Tragically Hip, went on a brief tour when it became clear that their singer would soon die from brain cancer. They got to wrap up an artistic career on their terms, and it was beautiful. They won't be playing again.
Its a personal relationship for the fans and the bands. We can collectively decide how the music and our memories are celebrated. I'd like to see great music and great memories live on.
4
Yet another example of this trend excluded from the article (not that there was anything wrong with the article) is King Crimson. Where Robert Fripp goes, there goes King Crimson. When a group of musicians that includes RF is deemed worthy by RF to bear the moniker "King Crimson," then it's King Crimson. When he reformed a band in the late 70s that included Adrian Belew, Tony Levin, and fellow former Crim Bill Bruford, the band initially was going to be called Discipline. Somewhere along the way, RF decided that the quartet actually was KC. So KC they were, and their maiden album was called "Discipline" instead. I'm sure RF figured out that the King Crimson name was more lucrative than Discipline and that helped him make the decision. But I like to think that when he sensed the Crim feel, he switched the name.
8
There is also the sub-group of bands that, right from the start, had one or two principal members, and an ever-changing roster of band members in the studio and on tour dates.
Steely Dan and ELO spring to mind immediately.
10
This makes me almost admire that Yes somehow settled on two surviving versions who tour simultaneously, each with some of the original members. Talk about a Roundabout! But age wise they are Close to the Edge.
4
@BillW Yep, Yes is the only band I'm aware of that toured concurrently and had the word Yes in each name. Was somewhat confusing which members were in each and went to one version uncertain whom I would see,
1
@Michael S. Tierney Don't forget Gong.
Rock fans, like classical and jazz listeners, are going to have to come to terms with hearing music not being performed by its originators.
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@P. Bannon - Double Irony - (aging) rock fans, are having to come to grips with NOT hearing music NOT being performed by it's originators (w/o the tinnitus undertones, anyway)! Curses!
PS: The Tinnitus Undertones would be a good band name.
2
@P. Bannon - That’s not the complaint. The complaint is the fakery. There aren’t random black guys touring as Dizzy Gillespie.
The Grateful Dead did it right, in my opinion. After Jerry died they toured as The Dead for a decade, then Further after that, and now as Dead & Co. The fans know what they’re getting, and it’s not the Grateful Dead. But it’s still something, and without them wearing out the original name it somehow feels more honest and respectful of the original band.
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@Matt
I second your emotion.
1
@Matt -
"In the Land of the Dark,
the Ship of the Sun,
is driven by The Grateful Dead."
2
I recall 2 separate incidents in the late 1970's/early 1980's where 2 bands using the same famous band name performed simultaneously at different venues in the same city.
Evidently, person 1 of the original band broke off and formed his own band using the same name. Person 2 of the original band did the same. They just happened to be booked in the same town on the same night.
A few years later, the identical situation occurred with (2 versions of) a different band in a different town.
No, I don't recall which bands they were.
1
@Sarek Badfinger was one of them. Joey Molland and Tom Evans had competing groups.
4
Journey? Steve Perry?
The band I saw back in 1974 (opening for Hot Tuna) was comprised of Gregg Rolie, Neal Schon, Aynsley Dunbar and a bass player whose name I can't recall.
I dug that band. That was the original Journey.
15
#journeynerd
@Jeff Douglas
Rollie and Dunbar gave the original Journey more of a jazz feel, and they were great. I saw this iteration, and then the Perry (still including Rollie on keys) only a couple of years apart, and didn't mind the change, initially. When Rollie and Dunbar finally left, it was over.
1
How do you write this article and not at least mention Pink Floyd? This was a particularly interesting battle over the name because, Roger Waters the bands lyricist and part time singer, gradually became the bands main creative force over time...penning nearly all its biggest hits. When the rest of the band continued without him, the band rightly countered that the instrumental component of the band was integral the overall sound of Floyd and they had as much right to the name as he did. After many years of acrimony, Waters has since apologized for his role in the feud.
This is also leaving out the chapter that Waters himself, initially was not the main song writer, but took over that role after Syd Barrett, the groups founding guitarist, went insane after their first album.
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@Jcp at least now we know "which one is NOT Pink."
1
@Jcp -
"…somewhere old heroes shuffle safely down the street,
where you can speak out loud about your doubts and fears and what's more,
no-one ever disappears, you never hear their standard issue kicking in your door.
You can relax on both sides of the tracks, and maniacs don't blow holes in bandsmen by remote control…"
@Jcp Syd Barrett was an acid casualty, but the best Floyd music was his, and even after he left the band, he created a couple of great albums, even if not all the songs were spectacular.
No mention of Guns N' Roses? That's a huge oversight.
4
Excellent piece. I'm with you on the Pixies, man
8
Jethro Tull and ELO also come to mind. Seeing bands I loved as a teenager has become a bittersweet proposition, joy and an awareness of my own mortality mixed together like gin and tonic.
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@Saturn5Dad
"Jethro Tull and ELO also come to mind." Too true. Tull was Anderson and Martin Barre, while ELO was Bev Bevan and Jeff Lynne -- Roy Wood moved on shortly after the segway from the Move. Others in the same light were Foghat ("Lonesome" Dave Peverett), T-Rex (Marc Bolan), Big Country (Stuart Adamson), the Mothers of Invention (Zappa), Be-Bop Deluxe (Bill Nelson) and, of course, King Crimson (Robert Fripp). They all toured and recorded with a multitude of session and tour musicians, and never skipped a beat. This isn't even mentioning Jeff Beck who can (and has) play with anyone, and everyone, but will always be the greatest guitar innovator that ever lived.
3
My tests:
When a once-edgy band plays an office park’s “after hours” Friday concert, with free admission for bored office-clones, it is nearly over.
When a band opens for a puppet show at a theme park, it is over.
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@Peak Oiler Exactly. That's when I knew Spinal Tap's days were numbered.
20
@Peak Oiler - As long as the marquee lists band first, puppet show second, it’s ok.
13
@Jim & @Matt, there's hope as long as the puppets get worse dressing rooms.
1