In a way, we are looking at ourselves, mirrored in the current British travail. Not so much in the expression as in the cause.
1
Mrs May is a Remainer. She reveals nothing about her true thoughts, She is also untruthful as her many broken assurances demonstrate.
As a True Believer in Europe she intends that the UK remains in Europe despite Brexit means Brexit. This process will be dragged out for as long as it takes until the MPs collapse with exhaustion, fear or ennui and vote for another referendum, The next referendum will "surprisingly" result in Remain thanks to clever manipulation and EU funding.
What May said needed to be said. And that is an absolute truth. There is no chance of getting this, or any other deal through this parliament. And there never was. Even if the approach was opposite - first put an acceptable deal through the parliament and then put it before the EU as a take-it-or-leave-it proposition - those MPs would still fail to come up with any kind of compromise. Simply because that mob does not represent the will of the British people. It was always going to be a no-deal Brexit and now May has reconciled herself with that reality. She worked hard to get it done, but MPs would not let her. It is all on them.
2
@David: She worked hard to get a deal that she hoped to sell to her party and coalition partners. If her strategy had succeeded, the Conservative Party could be held together and credited with delivering what the referendum voters wanted. Engineering a last minute showdown to force MPs to vote for her deal was part of the strategy. But the hard line Brexiters and Ulster Unionists don't have to come on board because they know that by default, they will get what they want anyway. In stubbornly pursuing this course, even in the face of historic parliamentary defeat, Mrs May did not allow serious consideration of a soft Brexit deal (or anything else) that might have garnered the support of Labour MPs (many of whom represent pro-Brexit) constituencies) and MPs of smaller parties. The reason is obvious: a softer Brexit would never have been supported by a third of her MPs. So pursuing that option would have split her party asunder. The original reason for the referendum was after all, to keep the hard-line Conservative MPs in line. If Mrs May had worked as hard to keep the UK together as keeping the Conservative Party together, I would have more respect for her.
3
May has shown her true colors - a clueless politician who resorts to nationalist rallying calls of violence
3
Having recently finished a book about the India-Pakistan partition in 1947 engineered by the spiteful British forced to exit their most economically exploited and profitable colony, leading to one of the largest and bloodiest forced mass migration in known history- I have only one thought for Britain’s self flagellation with Brexit- Karma, baby!
4
I agree with this analysis. Politically, Ms. May should not have alienated those MP's that she may need to support her in Parliament. But Ms. May is also right in that Parliament cannot coalesce around any particular plan that has any realistic possibility of also getting EU support. Parliament is arguing that Ms. May should have secured a deal - with UK control over immigration, removing itself from the European Court of Justice but keeping the favorable current tariff regime - that no EU country would ever support. The EU would never support such a deal because then every other member country would also try to seek the benefits of the EU without its costs. But the EU only works with both the benefits and the burdens of membership.
4
The French diplomat in Brussels was spot on about the UK: we are dealing with a failed state.
4
@Charles
London is pretty calm. Paris on the other hand.............
3
well, at least the government in paris is functioning and able to make decisions...
1
It feels like some of the British people and its elected officials do not want to take responsibility for its votes. Have the British people forgotten that it got itself into this impossible situation? And now it expects the PM or Parliament to magically solve the mess the voters and the Leave party got the country into?
Have the British people forgotten that former PM Cameron QUIT on the spot after the Brexit vote? Have they forgotten that being PM would be a very undesirable & frustrating job, given the LIES that voters were fed about leaving the EU?
I would not be surprised if PM May quits a few months right after they exit from the EU.
3
I hold a UK passport, although I live abroad and was thus disenfranchised for the referendum.
To me, Ms. May has gone from a sympathetic figure stuck with an impossible and unenviable task, to an outright coward. She is either delusional or flat out dishonest when she blames this predicament on "Parliament". This is the same Parliament in which her corrupt and petulant party holds the most seats, and formerly a majority. All of the charade we have seen for the past 2 years has been for one purpose and only one purpose: attempting to navigate the Brexit process while above all clinging to power.
Spare me this utter nonsense about you being on "our side". You have played brinksmanship with people's lives rather than doing the honourable thing of admitting to a deadlock within your own ranks 12 months ago and calling an election, as you ought to have.
This level of party before country action borders on treason.
39
The referendum should never have been binding. Cameron could have appeased some of his foaming-at-the-mouth Tories by forming an exploratory group of some kind. Then when the truth finally came out, public opinion could have been surveyed again, either with another vote or an election. If the majority still wanted out, then at least the British would know what they were getting themselves into ahead of time. PS I thought May's speech was the first time she spoke like a human being rather than a collection of platitudes.
16
It was never binding. A binding referendum has no meaning in the UK’s parliamentary system. Parliament has full authority in every matter. Invoking Article 50 is a statute approved by both Houses and signed by the monarch, after the referendum. If anyone wants to change it, they have to approve another statute. It is not a game over, reset situation.
7
There is absolutely no doubt that the MPs behave as neither fish nor fowl on this matter.
Corbyn apparently enjoys being unhelpful, looking for his own gain in this matter.
And May has been unreasonably stubborn although, perhaps, one could understand her position given the impotence of the MPs in general and apparent schadenfreude of the Labour.
So, no good guys here. I feel no sympathy for the MPs, sacred cows, and see nothing wrong with her rebuking them, as they rebuke her daily and with perverse pleasure.
23
Well now decisions have to be made, essentially by the Tory Brexiters. What they want is a no deal break and the elevation of one of theirs to the Tory Leadership and at least immediately to the position of PM. Failing that "Her Deal" and her ouster so that they will be in a position to negotiate the elements of "A No Deal".
In reality this is all about political power in Britain. If it results in even further immediate degradation for many of the British people this does not matter.
We wealthy descendants of aristocrats will be in charge: our rightful position.
6
while may has been somewhat uncompromising, the MPs have been at least as much so. Corbyn wouldn't even accept May's invitation to sit down in January to discuss issues. MPs have been obstructing the process since day 1 and now are attempting to hold out for something that is impossible to achieve:a new, renegotiated deal and blaming it on May. the EU has told parliament, this is the deal. there will be no other so accept it or not but you will still be out of EU. with a no deal exit if necessary. but the MPs refuse to believe this and are expecting May to negotiate a whole new deal. it's not gonna happen. the vote to say they wouldn't exit without a deal--what a joke. that's not their decision, it's the EU's decision. the UK decided to leave, the EU said ok here's the deal take it or leave it. and the MPs say, we dont like that deal and we decided we wont leave without a deal. it makes my head hurt it's so stupid. and let's blame it on may to boot.
2
The MPs think they can stick with their positions, let the exit occur and not have elections for several years. It is a cold, political calculation. A lot of ranting is not going to change that calculation in each of their minds. The whole negotiating effort seems a complete waste of time. The UK should have spent the time setting up process to handle the inevitable conclusion. If the PM made a mistake, it was not setting up that effort in parallel.
I love watching these Brits flail as they expect the 27 other members of the Union to save them from their own incompetence and lack of resolve!
2
Don’t leave the EU. Get leadership that can solve the issues which David Cameron could not, which was the real reason for “Leave,” back in 2016: Not that the UK had no other choice. It was that British leadership WITHIN THE E.U. was unavailable at a critical time, now not so critical at all!
The UK’s problems can be solved within the EU.
Now, the public is well informed. So, a new referendum would be the FIRST GENUINE democratic referendum.
Polls show consistently that Brits don’t want to Leave. Scotland will leave the UK, if the British Parliament allows Brexit. Metro London never wanted Leave.
For the most part, it was countryside England that rightly wants a better economy, but was misled and ill informed.
VOTE TO NOT LEAVE. HAVE NEW ELECTIONS. Gain and preserve UK leadership in the EU. Solve problems that were never insurmountable. Live happily ever after.
10
@gary e. davis
If only our leaders had as much sense as you Sir.
2
@Lawrence in Buckinghamshire
Here, here! Thus speaks common sense. We are trying to achieve this despite our 'Leader' (who is not on our side) tries to lead everyone like lemmings over the White Cliffs of Dover.
We will just have to hope that we don't accidentally drop out of Brexit on 29th -but that we muddle our way through to a Referendum - sensible questions to be asked on the voting paper hopefully.
1
Bloomberg has an article today that over 1 MILLION people in the UK signed a petition in the first day to STOP BREXIT. They boke the internet connection.
UK lawmakers must consider any citizen's petition with 100,000 or more signatures.
Ms. May still swears she will not consider leaving. She is guaranteeing that she and her hard-right brethren will not survive. Average people in the UK have figured it out.
Good Job, Good People of the UK! Make your country stay in the EU and continue the peace you have enjoyed since WWII.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-21/petition-to-cancel-brexit-attracts-more-than-800-000-signatures?srnd=politics-vp
9
Ms. May still swears she will not consider STAYING.
Sorry for the error. I'm glad to see my comment appeared. Thank you NY Times.
2
@njglea - nope, they are on their way out. It might hurt for awhile but the EU will be better and more stable for it and the UK will be worse. All the people I care for won :)
@njglea
Brexit is a Tory gig and the Tories will not abandon it when they have an ace card - victory in the referendum - that makes their little coup 'democratic'.
Hmph. I can’t blame her for being frustrated with the Boris Johnson “my manhood” types. But really - their country risks being cut off from all sorts of critical trade including medical supplies if they don’t make a deal. And does their Parliament even accomplish any other business
What is infuriating is this shouldn’t be happening at all. This version of “liberal democracy doesn’t work” has been brought to you by Cambridge Analytica and Vladimir Putin.
8
As we know from shouting zealots of all political stripes, an abstracted and selective fantasy of "The People" is the last resort of a scoundrel. If she's so sure what they want, commit to give them the Final Say. (It's a matter of public record that if Leave had lost by the same close margin in 2016 it would have considered it had solid license to pursue a Second Referendum of its own.)
1
“This is a confidence matter now,” wrote Steve Reed, who represents Croydon North. “Deal gone, May gone.”
Maybe.
But "May gone" is absolutely irrelevant dear Mr. Reed. You have missed the really important point completely. The only matter that matters right now is "Deal gone, will UK crash into a nowhere zone in Europe". This is what it is all about.
As long as you as an MP of UK are not willing to realize this much more important problem you have to deal with right now immediately I will not listen to you any more in any way.
So stop whining, carry out your duty and do what decent MPs have to do in the situation the country is in - and then you might throw out Ms. May for all her horrible mistakes in a wide arc out of what ever she had been in. No objections.
But in THIS order, please.
3
Unfortunately, I think PM May is right. Nigel Farage and his merry band of Brexiters have done nothing but lie and cheat and throw tantrums since stupid Cameron allowed the vote.
The conservative pro leavers have stabbed her in the back at every turn. Ok, she did not handle it as adroitly as she could have but it has been clear that the knives have been out for her and she will be 'leaving' too. Too bad Corbyn is in the wings.
Parliament did not have to leave it to one person - the PM - to get everything right. They chose to do so because it saved their accepting any responsibility.
6
Good lord. May is easily the most incompetent politician in British history. How pathetic. It's hard to even connect the dots of the thinking that led to this speech - it's hard to even imagine even drawing the line. What Britain needed after that referendum was a principled leader who would have committed only to examining in detail the implications of the idea, particularly given that the Leave campaign was so full of lies, and then allowing Parliament to determine the matter. What it got was May, who was Remain, come in and renounce HER OWN professed view in order to make some sort of deal to get power. Truly criminal. She will go down in history as a complete failure.
3
No, this statement is flawed:
“There is, of course, a measure of truth in what Mrs. May said: Though few members of Parliament truly advocate a no-deal exit, members have proven unwilling to compromise, instead holding out for maximalist outcomes like a second referendum or the illusion of a renegotiated deal.”
May has NEVER asked anyone who voted Remain about compromise. She sidelined us. She took 48% of the country and rounded it down to 0. She even sidelined the Softer Leavers, the fans of EFTA or Norway. She instead veered hard right, into the camp of the ERG who have only ever wanted No Deal. Losing her majority in 2017 should have been a blatant clue her approach was not working, but instead she retreated into silence.
She has proven utterly unfit to be PM, and now, desperately, she resorts to a populist, authoritarian appeal. When the dust settles there needs to be a serious debate on the failures that got us here, but I fear that is a vain hope. The establishment foxes are guarding the henhouse, and us ordinary citizens will be too busy coping with the wreckage to care.
And the anger at certain politicians and those servile enough to parrot their themes (“GoWTO!” No Deal can’t wait!”) is pretty substantial. It’ll be like Iraq, where in 2003 54% of the country supported the war - but where are they now? No-one admits they were one. This is going to be the same. Give it ten years and no-one will admit they voted Leave.
7
@Mat
You are, sadly, so right.
Perhaps a vote of no confidence is exactly what Mrs. May is looking for. Given the complete stone-walling her own party have delivered to her in her quest to carry out Brexit, I would think she is completely fed up...and exhausted. Let them vote her out and let them kick someone else around. Her statement last night was quite right.
3
unfortunately... she is correct ...
now our legislators are on the same track.. personal attacks ... and no GOVERNING
4
May is toxic. She apparently thinks that compromise is a dirty word. This is what happens when you allow a simple majority to determine national policies through referendums. At least use a super majority vote. Cameron should be exiled to Elba.
4
May chose a move right out to Trump's playbook. The Blame Game.
3
If this is Parliament's fault, the rational response should be to replace Parliament. Starting with the Conservative Party.
1
starting with Labour and Corbyn.
Give it up U.K.! Now that your citizens have heard the facts as adverse to the lies and have a much better understanding of the risks of LEAVE, have another referendum and move on. If the vote is again to LEAVE, then leave and suffer the consequences. If it now toggles to STAY, then stay and suffer the benefits of doing so. Also, either way get rid of T. May.
3
The “mandate” for Brexit was a fabrication, and even more so now. It is time to revoke Article 50 and return to the E.U. before that option expires. The refusal of Parliament to consider this action even in the face of increasing support for it shows a lamentable failure of common sense and responsibility to the Country.
6
If what’s going on with Brexit is “liberal democracy”, than nobody should regret its demise. Ms. May simply stated the obvious truth. And that’s exactly the reason why she hasn’t been replaced yet: nobody really wants to be in her shoes and have to solve an impossible problem.
6
She should cancel the notice on art 50 and start an electoral process...then we will see what the people want!
May is still trying to foster Putin's attempts to weaken the free world. She's doing a great job. Between May and Trump, it's hard to tell whom Vladimir has on a shorter leash!
4
So, the Brits need an extention. First a short one and maybe later a long one. There is a total disregard for the EU position at this stage. Could someone mention there are EU-elections coming up ? There is no need for those elections to be completely messed up by Brexit, but does anyone in little england care ?
If Britain stays as a member it should organize elections for the EU-parlement as well. What could possibly go wrong ? Either they fail to participate (and who can force them?) or they will vote in large numbers of Brexiteers in the EU-parlement. Who in Brussels want to be responsable for that ?
Seems to me what is needed is a cooling off period. Delay Brexit by a year or two. Have a dispassionate and exact accounting of all the pros and cons of leaving the EU (which didn't happen the first time). Put all the information before the public in a manner everyone can understand. Have another referendum. Get on with life.
1
@Michael The best way to do it is in cancelling art.50 notice...!
2
It is way past time to revoke Article 50 and have the U.K. return to the E.U. The refusal of parliament to consider this action is not only a violation of common sense and any responsibility to the citizenry, but a testimony to the corruption of parliament.
2
that's like suggesting we should have a new presidential election right now.
1
@bored critic No it is not. It is a legal and legitimate binding action which Parliament could take. They just do not have the nuts to do it.
@bored critic
No - we can revoke Article 50 any time we like - the US has to wait until four years are up.
3
The WA is actually pretty reasonable and should be voted through.
The pity is that May is such an unpleasant character that no majority in Parliament will ever support any of her proposals. Time for her to go, and fast.
1
Theresa May’s underlying message is sound. Over the past two years the Euroskeptics in her party have used her just as they used Brussels in the past: as a convenient punching bag to divert attention away from their own lack of ideas. It’s now time for another Conservative to step up and lead. Who is brave enough?
5
It looks like no deal exit will happen. The Tories will stand together, and not vote to revoke the Article 50, not approve the current plan and not call for new elections. That is the path of least pain to those individual MPs. They will get through the transitional pain and have elections in a few years.
The problem for P. M. May is a plurality of Parliament opposes Brexit whilst a plurality of the public supports it.
She, herself, opposed it; but, is now P. M.
She tried to call a snap election to increase her majority but
lost it and is P. M. but leader of a non-majority party.
She is attempting to deliver something that she does not believe in.
Hence, the problems mount; are exacerbated; and, the EU has no reason to be reasonable.
What a mess. They should probably leave on Mar. 29th and get the whole thing behind them.
@Pad McLoughlin This is not factual. A plurality does not support Leave per the latest opinion polls. https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was-a-referendum-on-britains-membership-of-the-eu-how-would-you-vote-2/
In fact, support for Leave has been dropping for some time, particularly because the Leave campaign was so full of lies.
2
and do what about the Irish backstop issue? just set up a hard border and a restart to the "Troubles"?
May sounds like someone who’s trying to get fired. I wonder if this would be a way to postpone without really calling it a postponement. Parliament calls for a vote of no confidence, the country goes into elections and asks Brussels to give them a bit more time because of the elections. The election becomes, in effect, a referendum on Brexit and a new government comes in to deal with it. Regardless, history won’t be able to say that Theresa May was there when Britain left the EU.
9
@M I'm British and writing from the UK. It is a lot more complicated than that. If there is a vote of no confidence then the PM has two weeks to call another vote in the hope of reversing the result (Fixed Term Parliament Act 2010ish) . I have no idea how the EU would react in the two weeks. If the result is not reversed Jeremy Corbyn becomes PM . This would the first time such an event would have happened so again I have no idea how the UK or the EU would react. The likelihood is that EU would grant a long extension (no less than 1 year) and the UK would have to (would be grateful to) accept it. In any event TM would get the blame/credit either way.
OF course , as I have said, I don't really know and the scary thing is, nobody does. Literally nobody knows what is going to happen.
11
@Ralph Dickinson So the question remains: Why would any one follow-through with an action that has so many unknown consequences? Revoke Article 50 and take more than a few days or weeks to think about it. This spectacular demonstration of national self-destruction at the hands of an indecisive and fractured government is tedious and sad.
1
The Labor leader has to get a majority in the House. He does not automatically get to be PM. The Tories and that party for NI will not approve a no confidence vote. They see no reason for new elections.
It was a terrible idea: Cancel every trade agreement with over twenty nations, with no plan for what agreements to replace them with. Toss in an arbitrary deadline which forces cancellation of the agreements whether replacements are negotiated or not.
Sounds like the sort of plan Vladimir Putin would concoct in order to weaken the West.
36
@Marshall It is like the global edition of The Bird Box, where an entire nation's eyes glaze over and they simply step in front of a speeding train.
1
@Marshall
Don't be paranoid - it's not as if there is any evidence of secret funding, dark money from tax havens, data manipulation and micro-targeting of voters using illegally-obtained data is there?
Why would Mr Putin want to do that - next thing you'll be saying he interfered with the US Presidential election.
3
In a parliamentary democracy where the executive and legislative branches are combined the representatives of the people are given legal elective license to substitute their judgment and expertise for that of the people.
Asking the people to vote on Brexit was a dereliction of that duty.
Other than the Vatican participatory individual democracy in a civil secular state is impossibly unwieldy.
Even in the era of the Internet and digital technology age an informed choice by most citizens is impossible.
Social media is prone to the propaganda that appeals to the worst demons of our primate African ape nature.
7
It's asking too much to expect strong leadership from an assortment comprising so many timid rich old hyper-privileged power-grasping white men.
10
have you watched any of the parliamentary proceedings? your assessment of the make up of parliament is totally wrong.
2
@Dan K
What has the GOP got to do with
Brexit?
3
@Dan K
You are confusing Parliament (House of Commons) with the House of Lords . House of Commons is multi cultural/racial/feminist. However you could apply the adjectives rich, hyper privileged to some of the far right..
Now a whiff (stench?) of autocracy hits Britain. This contagion has to be contained. At least May won't be able to beat the 2010-16 House record of voting to Repeal & Replace over 55 times - they will throw May out long before that.
The UK seems ready for the "Thelma and Louise" Brexit now — rip the band-aid off, pay the price, and wise up that the whole idea was a big lie perpetrated by cowards from the start. Keep Calm and Carry On! After all, it could have been worse — right?
5
@MCV207 I still don't understand why they can't go the route of just listening to the majority of Brits now, cancel Brexit, avoid having to pay any price, and STILL recognize the whole thing was a big lie.
It's like if Thelma and Louise got out of their car, walked over to the cops, and said, "Folks, we've got videotape that proves our innocence, you might wanna give this a watch."
2
NO! It is Cameron's Fault. It is the fault of every underhanded, agenda-laden lie ladled out to UK voters prior to the vote that initiated this depbacle. The premise and promises for leaving the EU were lies or half-truths. If the UK ends up leaving, they asked for it. What is a mystery to me is why they will revoke the Article 50 Declaration and just start over. Just because you find yourself in a building pot of soon-to be boiliing water does not mean you have to stay there until the end.
11
Correction...What is a mystery to me is why they will not Revoke the Article 50 Declaration and just start over.
Good for Ms May. Parliament has been useless and they should called out for being useless, a chamber full of petulant and feckless babies, all squalling and squabbling over the mess they made. At some point you have to get over the illusion that you can somehow manage the tyrant.
8
For once, Ms May is right: parliament has made every effort to drag this out and blame her rather than the powers that led to this idiotic decision. She was destined to be ousted no matter the outcome—better to go honestly.
12
Imagine the screaming here if nafta included free movement of people and the new laws were coming out of Quebec City or Mexico City.
2
It's the fault of ignorant, willingly duped British voters. They told the government they wanted the milk taken back out of their coffee and still haven't admitted that, whatever you might wish, it really isn't possible. You can try, but you'll end up with no milk and no coffee.
7
@Jim
You say: 'It's the fault of ignorant, willingly duped British voters.'
Many took it in good faith – responsible leaders were reassuring them it was nt a big matter at all. It was presented as a straightforward matter and no one knew any better. The conflicting campaigns were so opposed it was impossible to know which side to believe. I was going to not vote and only decided at the last moment to participate and vote remain. The following morning when it became clear the Leavers had won I was not really disturbed and thought 'all right so it will be a return to when you were a young man with visas and travellers' cheques'. It was only as time went by that it became clear how ignorant and dishonest the Leave campaign had been.
I think a lot of Leavers have got wise to this and this is why Brexiteers want us out the door ASAP before anyone can do anything.
3
Without knowing much about Brexit, I just read Maggie from Germany and she seems to have nailed it.
From my uninformed position I still don’t understand why Brexit is such a big deal. During WWII, England was under attack and rose to the occasion. Now we are speaking of either leaving the EU or not, and England seems paralyzed. What’s the worst that can happen? Everything becomes marginally more expensive or burdensome?
Folks, this is not life or death. Just do it. If it doesn’t work after a couple of years, change back. I’m sure the EU will welcome Britain back with open arms because friends and alliances these days are very hard to come by.
To me what’s more troubling is the dithering. Britain was once a courageous country. Not anymore if this all they have to worry about. Much, much larger threats abound like Russia, China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Iran, hacking, political instability, climate change, the inexplicable rise of Autocratic morons due to Conservative thinking, ineptitude and malpractice.
Britain, get it together. At least you’ve got Steven Wilson. It could be so much worse.
3
@PC
The problem is that the EU at its core is a union of nations that are individually not strong enough to remain global players in the aftermath of WW2 so they banded together for two reasons: To keep peace on the continent (considering its history) and to forge bonds maintaining that peace via tying their economies gradually together. The UK has enjoyed some preferential treatment over the course of the EU's existence as an organized group of states and trade agreements for individual countries don't per se exist; instead, the EU negotiates on behalf of its member states.
The problem for the UK, then, is losing all those agreements, having no replacements in place and losing access to a functioning, vibrant market that weakens itself more than it does the EU, but it still comes at a cost for both. And that's not even including internal UK disputes and the Irish border issue.
Try this: The US is a federation, right, but now think of each state within the US as a separate country with only a vague idea of belonging to the same overarching group (i.e., no sentiment of being a nation like the real US has). Now one of those, say, California, wants out after getting special treatment during its membership because of some referendum. That's basically what this is.
3
That sort of happened. Only it wasn’t California, it was the entire South. But it wasn’t Sexit (Southern Exit). It was the Civil War. So far, England is doing pretty well-at least by those standards.
@PC
Though the New York times explains the difficulties better, I will try to give the short version. One problem with a no-deal Brexit is that British ports rely on speedy, no check ports. Leave, and customs checks can create delays of up to 6 days between the U.K. & Europe.
The big issue, however, is Northern Ireland. Any kind of border between it and the Republic of Ireland will result in violence. It's a long story, Google "The Troubles." Problem is either you don't go Maximum Brexit or you get that border when you leave the EU. It's this paradox of wanting to close borders with the EU but not Ireland that's stalled out talks, and no one has a solution.
1
This article paints Theresa May as a petulant child throwing a tantrum for not getting her way on Brexit. The debate both in Parliament and by the public is getting very ugly and nasty !!!
The note by Sam Coates that appeared in the Guardian at the time of 14:07 is interesting:
“Theresa May recently read the riot act to her cabinet about leaking.”
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/mar/19/brexit-latest-news-bercow-speaker-theresa-may-to-chair-cabinet-as-government-responds-to-bercow-ruling-against-repeat-vote-on-deal-politics-live?page=with:block-5c90f7e8e4b0e8eadf7804dd#block-5c90f7e8e4b0e8eadf7804dd
The British public should read the riot act to Theresa May to stop repeatedly riding her rocking-horse of arguments for Brexit and hold a new Referendum.
The UK is now at the 11th hour and she is off to Brussels seeking a new extension … enough, already !!!
8
May is writing the latest chapter for Trump's "Book of Excuses" - but she is correct. If Parliament would get its act together, and had done so at the outset of this massacre, the issue would have already been resolved, one way or the other.
Trump, on the other hand, will use the same "explanation" to cover for his incompetence and ignorance. That is the difference between a leader and a blithering narcissistic fool.
6
One positive to come from Brexit is the British example has done more to strengthen the European Union than the Euro-centric were ever able to accomplish on their own.
After witnessing the political upheaval, chaos and inanity of Brexit other nations have stopped talk of following the UK example. Macron and Merkel are deeply indebted to the ineptitude of their British counterparts.
14
May has to revoke Article 50 and then re-invoke it to buy a new two years. And then resign. In two years, we'll get to do it all over again, like Groundhog Day, because you can't have an open border between Ireland the Northern Ireland without having a open border to the EU because Ireland IS the EU. If you have an open border with the EU, what was the point of Brexit?
5
No, it is not the parliament's fault. The Tories and the people are to blame. Hamilton argued that the British government was the best in the world, because it provided the right mix of democracy and stability. The Tories broke this government by organizing a referendum on a topic that quite frankly is just too complicated for the people to decide on. There never was any good way of exiting the EU. Nobody even knew what the terms of the membership were, its benefits and disadvantages, what it enabled and disabled. They just voted based on emotions - leave or remain; the result was like throwing dice. The British establishment has known for centuries that things of this magnitude should not be decided by the unruly passions of the people. Why on Earth, then, did the conservatives call for a referendum circus that has taken them to this miserable dead end?
7
Yes. Brexit is Parliament's fault. The fault was taking a general, open-ended referendum and turning that into a mandate. If the people of Britain wanted Brexit they should have been given a SPECIFIC plan to vote on, not a feel-good (or feel-bad) general question Parliament messed this up by accepting the results of the referendum policy. Leadership was and is lacking.
7
What do these barmy Brits want ??
As an Irishman, born in the Republic of Ireland, I'm well enough enlightened to provide the answer, in my opinion of course.
See, it's like this - the Brits, the leavers in particular, are pining for some kind of a return to the heady days of lost glory, the days of imperialism, the days when British economic rule, and dominance, made their stiff upper lips stiffer, and the beauty of listening to the subjugated begging for a tad more recognition, a few more of the stale royal breadcrumbs, so reluctantly doled out.
I'm expecting Brussels to not grant the extension, as they require the cooperation of the British Parliament, to agree to a deal, now very unlikely after that humdinger of a statement by Ms. May.
Ah well, that other barmy Brit wannabe, in our Northern province, the still occupied lands of our sovereign nation, Arlene Foster, is no doubt torn since nothing she could do, was able to alter anything, given her desire to keep Northern Ireland in the economic union, and not do anything that might cause such a scenario to draw our Northern province closer to its natural home, the Republic of Ireland.
Those barmy Brits; I'm thoroughly enjoying how they walked into the quicksand of their own hubris, blessings be upon them.
11
@Mel Farrell
That about sums it up! Me, I'm a realist (aka Remainer) and know which side my bread is buttered. I also know the Empire ended with WWII - the Brexiteers(unrealistic) still look to see the sun setting over a would be empire and dream of all past glories.
May is either incompetent or has never wanted Britain to leave the EU in the first place.
Her deal is so bad; putting England in a far more dependent, powerless position under the EU that Leave would be worse than Remain.
She either has to be wholly inept or complicit. Time to head to Trafalgar Sq.
2
Given the absolute impasse, it is only proper to point out that Cameron expected to win the election, planned to go to the EU for a "better deal", and then present his deal to the public to see if it was acceptable.
It seems to me that we are now at the point that Cameron anticipated:
May has a deal and it is now time to go to the public to see if they accept it.
It is the only logical way out, given that no other agreement can be achieved.
2
@Frank Casa
‘It seems to me that we are now at the point that Cameron anticipated: May has a deal’
Cameron never anticipated this – his deal was a supposedly-improved deal to remain and May’s one is for leaving.
(Are you in Durham, Carolina, or Durham UK?)
Their only way out is a no-deal Brexit, which I assume is the default option.
There will be short term pain, but the UK is a grown-up and proud nation and they will pull through this, especially with Trump's full support.
1
What I can't seem to find is what effect brexit will have on U.S.
1
There hasn’t been a single Tory leader in the last 50 yrs ... or a Republican President in US for that matter, who has done anything worthwhile for the common good or for the masses .
And yes I am including Margaret Thatcher and Reagan in that .
The ruins of the western democracy as we have known it, lies at the feet of these once great parties .
12
I feel bad for May. She got handed Cameron's mess. At least she has an idea of what she's trying to do. What are her opponents offering?
5
What became the EU was just fine as the 'Common Market' for trade. But, as such organizations do, it swelled, grew pompous, and now has entrapped many who object to having their sovereignty trampled upon. It's too late for the UK, but should serve as an object lesson for the rest of us not to get too close to any international institution.
3
@David Godinez Or maybe not to get too close to any inter-state institution either.
OK, the MPs are mad. But was she wrong? From afar, it appears she's been playing the extremely weak hand the Brexit vote gave her to the best of her ability, and Parliament seems unwilling to accept a deal that never was going to be good for England. The MPs are mad, but perhaps they need to listen to a harsh truth.
8
I am just wondering what it is that I am missing as it is irrational to so insist on the validity of a plebiscite everyone knows was corrupted from inception of the campaign to have it.
9
I would like to make a prediction:
(1) After the joint CBI/TUC statement (which if it had occurred inside other European countries would have made a big impression) and the successful petition, the EU will not grant an extension of Article 50. The required clear supporting signal is lacking.
(2) In that case, the choice becomes one of between revokement or no-deal Brexit. This will result in a contest between May and parliament.
(3) My prediction is that parliament will win this contest and that we end up with revokement of Article 50: i.e. with no Brexit.
Given Theresa's body language in Brussels, I think she understands this already.
4
The joke’s on the MPs. Ms May will be gone sooner or later, when she wouldn’t need to care any more.
2
I’ve tended towards the hard Brexit camp, but given the possible Russian influence, and lack of consensus, maybe another referendum might be the best answer. The voters will be better informed on the ramifications and if they still vote to leave, then.....leave.
I wish we had a do-over option. Whatever happens, I’m for the Brits!
9
@Jo Williams
The supposed "Russian influence" is fake news being peddled by the Remainders to explain away their loss.
1
First and foremost is the fact that Theresa May and her obstinacy, inability to compromise, and her unnecessary delays have been responsible for the impasse, not Parliament.
2
the toxicity of May' speech is something we here in the US have unfortunately grown completely used to.
6
Couple of things. Anyone else see the irony of May asking parliament to vote on the same deal three times in the hope she will get a yes vote, while at the same time ruling out a second plebiscite because once is enough?
"The deal" currently on the table is really just an extension of the leave process. Trade and immigration will continue as before while negotiations for permanent agreements take place. So why the angst about how long an immediate extension should last?
48
@Derek McQuarrie
People are blind to irony where their own interests are at at stake.
It IS funny though.
I didn't know Trump University had a college in Cambridge. Concentrating on fault instead of solutions is an introductory class in it's business curriculum.
38
This is where the Queen ought to come in. Send half of Parliament to the Tower and half into the Thames and reclaim that divine right!
/s. (Though I sort of do wish for that).
18
@Mike
Not even Henry VIII nor Charles I dared this.
(Only single members of the House of Commons were sent to Tower from time to time. Charles I even failed to arrest five members of Parliament at once.)
1
@Carsten Neumann
But you will recall that Charles 1 lost his head when he crossed parliament (aka Divine Right of Kings you refer to)
Let the British people cake. Maybe then they will rise up and take back their country from the people like Boris Johnson who is a racist and willing to destroy the fabric of British Society just to relive some delusion of grandeur
34
@FV
I think he just wants to be Prime Minister.
Apparently he is the favourite to win the Tory leadership in the event of a contest.
What Mrs. May "desperately needs" is to resign. Finally. How much incompetence does it take?
Handed a terrible situation by her predecessor, she proceeded to let it drag on, making it worse as her "leadership" continued to fail. A superhuman task? Maybe. But that's what leaders are for -- and kicking the leader and/or his/her party out is what a parliamentary system is for. Both the leader and the system have failed Britain in this mess that they themselves have created. The leader of the Labour party, a deplorable throwback to 1950s failed economics (with a bit of 1930s anti-semitism thrown in to add flavor) has not made anything better.
How obvious is it that at this point, with no good options available, Britain needs a long breathing space to take in what's been happening (meaning a long postponement of any kind of Brexit,) a resignation by May, a new election (forget referenda; one fiasco per decade is enough), and hopefully new leadership of both (all?) parties that can understand the 21st century and apply some common sense to its issues.
23
@joel bergsman
Hear hear!
3
I have little to no idea what is in PM May's Brexit plan, so I can't speak to the merits, although I agree with the so-called "soft Brexit" proposals that would see Britain remaining in the customs union and free market. As I understand it, that would be similar to Norway's semi-membership, and has proven workable. However, as one who supported the "Remainers", I still hold out hope that a second referendum will eventually come to pass. If one thing became obvious after the original vote, it was that proponents of Brexit were lying through their teeth, promising a virtual "Second British Empire". Charlatans like these sometimes prevail. Look what happened here, after all!
41
@TRA How right your are, TRA
The UK is rapidly declining into a lost cause to be first ignored and then forgotten by the EU and the US. It just doesn't get it that the Western World has become one reality and for the UK to be outside of it is social and financial suicide. Why the UK doesn't understand that is boiled in their blood - they always have taken great pride in being the odd one out, be it their religion (the King is in charge), be it driving on the left side (why!), and now becoming a small country where "Fish and Chips" has become the final definition of what was once a true empire. Goodbye.
15
@rudolf
Sorry -- One of your criticisms is ridiculous. Why drive on the right? There is no reason. In fact, driving on the left has historical precedence; trains go on the left (most places) and they set the example.
1
@rudolf Please don’t mistake the utterly shameful failure of the entire UK political class for the demise of the entire country.
At the moment we have a Queen not a King, she’s a constitutional monarch: she can’t unilaterally take us into a war like other heads of state and she acts as a unifying figure above party politics. The PM has to visit the Queen each week to report as she represents us as a nation. Imagine a building in Washington where Uncle Sam lived as the representative of what your country stands for: the living embodiment of what you aspire to as a nation. Imagine your President had to visit every week to report: remember Uncle Sam is a clever chap who doesn’t stand for double talk and is more than ready to call out lies when he hears them. Our Queen might look like an old lady in a variety of hats but she’s razor sharp, forthright & takes her role very seriously.
We drive on the left by habit: we learned it first from the Romans who marched on the left. In time it became common to ride on the left to ensure the sword arm was free at the side one was likely to need it: most people are right handed. Castle stairs also turn in a way that allows right handed sword use. Wagon drivers sat on the right to keep their whip hand free.
Our national dish is now Chicken Tikka Masala not Fish & Chips. Both brought by immigrants: Jewish migrants in the C19th brought us fish in batter and migrants from India brought us Tikka Masala in the C20th. Fish Tikka Masala is lovely
7
@rudolf. I am as a Brit, as frustrated with Brexit as everybody else. It is an intransigent power struggle between opposing factions within the Conservative party (and others). However, we do currently have the fifth largest economy on the planet, so heavily influence the economies of France, Germany, Italy, for whom it would be equally detrimental if we crash out of the EU and trade under WTO rules. Like everybody else, I have absolutely no idea how Brexit will turn out, but although we are a small island nation, it will cause a financial tsunami. Our National dish is actually curry by consumption and the Romans drove on the Left, as do a surprising number of other countries, Google it.
4
We need to start charging the UK for all of these pointless meetings. Their nonsense is taking up our valuable time that we need to deal with real issues.
22
@Mons
I disagree. You should charge May herself. She's the one who pretends to keep negotiating.
1
Wrong. The Brexit mess - all of it - is entirely the fault of an arrogant and ignorant David Cameron calling for an unnecessary referendum without truly understanding all of what he was dealing with and what the potential fallout could be. Last I remember, Cameron was a Torie, just like May. And the ulta-conservatives, Orangemen and the like in N. Ireland, are making a bad situation even worse. All of this was avoidable, but the conservatives messed it up. Again. And needlessly.
73
You want somebody to blame, little england? Look in the mirror and talk to that person. This is headed to the equivalent of the sinking of the Spanish Armada by a storm, with you in the role of King Philip. By all that is righteous and good, little davie cameron should be in May’s shoes right now, instead of wherever he might be.
11
@Cap’n Dan Mathews
Isn't it typical? The men make a mess and then bring in a women to clean it up and all the while they kick her in the shins.
2
I'm not too big a fan of Theresa May, by now means. But Britain has painted itself into such a corner, there's no coming out of it really.
The country voted in a referendum where so many lies were circulated, that after the deed was done, the google searches for "what is brexit" rose exponentially. Then Cameron stepped down, and with Theresa May a pro-European MP became PM and had to deal with the Brexit. The EU had to negotiate as tough as possible to keep other states from leaving as well, so they did not make the concessions May would have needed to sell her deal to Parliament. And in the end the basic misunderstanding: Not wanting to abide the EU's strict trade rules, but still wanting to trade with the EU. That's not how anything works.
And now they still cannot decide: They don't want the deal, but they also don't want another referendum, they don't want the no-deal scenario, and they don't think May should be replace. I think it's a fair question to ask: what does the House of Commons actually want?!
And how can they ever square it with their completely divided country?
At the same time, I feel no pity for them. All of these people are elected, the information was accessible, nobody had to believe the lies, and still most people didn't participate at all, and a majority of those who did voted to leave. I'm not saying they deserve it, but... Great Britain could have done better.
71
This is what comes of relying on a slim majority in a plebiscite to decide a massive change. In no way should such a difficult change be undertaken unless a supermajority were in favor of a clear alternative. If the vote were 60% or 66% in favor of Brexit, this would not be difficult to get through. But at a bare 52%, it must be understood that it doesn’t have any mandate for change large enough to withstand deep inspections of inevitable compromises when any deal is finally made.
Cameron should have taken his dumb referendum as an opportunity to press the EU for structural changes internally to address rising continental concerns over external immigration and labor movement. Then he could have tried to sate some fraction of the 52% to forestall a true Brexit. Instead, he fell on his sword and hid from view in embarrassment.
6
It's difficult to lead the nation when close to 50% don't want to leave the EU. She's chosen the technocratic path i.e. Leave won the referendum. Brexit means Brexit means it's not a political process. She's right, the MPs political posturing is the problem. They need to get on with it.
5
Get on with what, precisely? The terms were not defined in the referendum, hence the disagreement now.
Suggestions like "Get on with it' are very childish.
6
@CM MPs need to get on with the job of leaving the EU instead of trying to take political advantage e.g. to get the Tories out which Labour has been trying to do.
@Vivien
You've evaded CM's question - how do they 'get on with the job of leaving the EU' - every Brexiteer and his dog has their own version of Brexit? Even if everyone had the same idea leaving would be a massively complex task.
When we DO leave we are going to have to re-negotiate trade and other treaties with the EU so there will be further patriotic strutting and more horse trading.
One of the things that is most damaging about what May has done, the seriousness of which, I think, most Americans are not fully aware, is her ignoring of the norms of parliamentary government and cabinet responsibility in the U.K. (Though Americans should, in fact, be finely attuned to the dangers of ignoring norms of government.) For example, when her government was defeated on the single most important issue facing the country by the widest margin in the history of the country she did not resign, as every prime minister before her would have. A few days ago, her minister in charge of Brexit spoke to the House of Commons urging members to back May in an important vote. Then he voted against her. He did not resign, and remains in the cabinet. Neither of these things would have been conceivable before now.
27
The UK has allowed/enabled the "conservatives" to hold the government hostage to their retrograde version of a kingdom where the sun never sets.
It presents an immediate opportunity for Ireland and the six counties of Ulster to sieze the moment and unify, establish a healthy relationship with the EU minus UK, and prosper.
Let the UK go their own way toward irrelevance and status as an economic also-ran. While they are at it, they can also erect more trade barriers and cut taxes for the wealthy, hoping enough of the wealthy, well-educated, and recently immigrated decide to stick around. They may even continue supporting a monarchy whose usefulness is only history.
6
Ms. May seems to regard her fellow Members of Parliament as a herd of sheep. Now, if so many sheep choose not to follow directions, it's usually either the ineptitude of the shepherd, the obstinacy of the sheep, or the sheep instinctively shying away from danger that is to blame, or a combination of all three. This seems to be a combination, but an inept leader will most definitely not help.
11
Just how many countries have their own Donald Trump 2.0 running things? The UK seems to. The buck doesn't stop with Ma. It stops with anyone else that she can blame. Oh Britain, I feel for you. I know just what you're going through. I wish you well, but I know how I feel about our country as it careens out of control from hour to hour. Drink more. It helps to numb the panic and disgust.
7
Mrs May invoked Article 50 without a clear plan agreed as to what Brexit should look like in detail, but with her own red lines that inevitably set up the problem of the Irish/Northern Irish border and led to the Irish Border Backstop.
She then squandered her slim majority in a General Election that she fought with an ill-conceived and badly delivered campaign, leaving her dependent on the extreme Brexit DUP and the ultra-Brexit ERG, effectively a party within the Conservative party. She failed to bring onboard any of the other groups of MP’s which would have worked with her on a softer version of Brexit.
She then delayed her original Meaningful Vote from late 2018 until January 2019, whilst accomplishing nothing useful at all. When she lost that vote she went back to the EU to renegotiate, but we kept hearing from the EU that no meaningful negotiations were taking place.
She then chose to put her deal back to Parliament, despite knowing it would fail and having agreed to a series of votes, to decide future actions including removing No Deal as an option. She then mishandled a series of votes seeking to prevent No Deal and has refused to allow votes to explore what Parliament would pass.
After a litany of errors she now says it’s all Parliament’s fault and further alienates the MP’s she needs to support her deal.
Mrs May is the author of her own troubles, despite having picked up a rotten hand originally.
28
@Fiona Senior
Clear as a bell; thanks, Fiona.
3
It sounds like Parliament doesn't like to hear the truth. With all factions firmly entrenched in their positions, and unwilling to budge, what possible outcome is there? If Ms. May were to resign today, the predicament would not change at all. The same M.P.s would hold the same positions.
Parliament voted to exclude a no-deal exit, but most in May's party really do want to crash out without a deal. Those hypocrites are mostly to blame for this impasse: they won't vote for any outcome at all. They want a clean break with the EU, but don't want to be held responsible for the likely chaos. They won't consider a second referendum because it will likely reverse the first one. The won't vote for a soft exit because that will leave the UK with some of the EU's rules in place. They won't put forth a plausible solution to the problem. That exhausts the options.
And I thought our Congress dallied around.
12
@Bill McGrath
You could have noted that Parliament is taking the control of the process as is its constitutional* responsibility, unlike our supine Republican Senate and previously supine House.
*Britain does not have a separate written constitution, but it has an effective constitution, of which the most important provision is that sovereignty resides in Parliament.
@Bill McGrath
Our Congress does't dally around!
It's very busy destroying democracy and civil rights and the planet.
3
With the exception of the extremists, e.g., Boris Johnson, most MPs are terrified of the effects of any Brexit and cannot vote to support any version presented. Neither can they stand up and say Brexit is folly. So much for representative democracy in the UK...
12
2016, the year the U.S. committed suicide by electing Trump, and the U.K. committed suicide by voting for Brexit, both my small margins. In both cases manipulated by right-wing xenophobic hate-mongers and in our case by foreign agents. The U.K. appears to be stuck in the tar pit of nostalgia and jingoism it's been waltzed into, and a much-impoverished country can expect Northern Ireland and Scotland to liberate themselves from self-wounding England. Let's save ourselves if we can, 2020 is at hand, and the possibility of a Democratic victory here is much greater than a Labour win over there. A radical change of course needed in both countries.
22
@Sidewalk Sam
It was a botched suicide resulting in a coma followed by a vegetative state, ending on life support with half the country trying to turn it off and the other half keep it on .
2
Steve Bannon was for it, enough said. Take upset people, tell them lies about how great everything will be, reality sets in, blame someone or something else and walk away. Trump, Bush II, Republican party. Sad.
20
OK. Pass a no-confidence motion. Then what?
2
@Juvenal
The government falls. Election called and comrade Corbyn is swept to power. Huzzah!
1
Theresa May isn't desperate, she's disgusted. Her life will continue just fine regardless of what happens. She's frustrated with all the people who love to whine about her plan, but have nothing constructive to propose. I wouldn't blame her for just stepping down and leaving the whole mess to the irresponsible M.P.s and uninformed voters who created it.
24
Whine?? Brexit is the most appalling, serious and compmex disaster to have befallen my country this century. Please don't be so glib.
Many commenters here forget that most MPs and -according to recent polls- most citizens are against Brexit, period.
The solution is to cancel the whole stupid thing and beg forgiveness from our European friends.
Mays deal is no use to anybody; Leavers or Brexiters.
3
Effective a week before the upcoming EU election:
1. Scotland and N Ireland granted independence so as to remain in EU
2. England/Wales adopt same deal Norway has
3. May and Corbyn resign, pledge never to return to politics, binding agreement to forfeit their pensions if they even try
4. Parliament election in 90 days.
There - isn’t that simple? EU would surely accept on 1 & 2.
It would be nice if Boris Johnson made himself scarce for a few decades, too.
51
N Ireland would not accept independence. And the EU won’t do a Norway so that others will not think leaving is easy to do.
1
For this American, it’s difficult to understand Brexit beyond knowing that too many people listened to and believed Boris Johnson and Steve Bannon and now there is a fiasco to deal with —
a situation that is similar to the US and it’s fiasco with the GOP.
107
No it’s worse. Trump at least comes with a time limit.
13
It seems that Teresa May spoke truth to the MPs and they recognizing that truth responded by huffing and puffing and being filled with outrage. Brexit was a bad vote from the beginning and there should be a second referendum especially now that everyone knows how the original vote was accomplished through deceit.
34
A no deal Brexit will force the Protestants, the Catholics and all the others in Northern Ireland to ask seriously whether affiliation with an adjacent member of the European Union will be vastly more in their interest than going down with H.M.S. London.
The Scots may ask the same question.
Before this is over, the Queen may be forced to abbreviate her title.
71
@Daniel P. Doyle It would certainly be interesting to see the effects of a hardened border between Ireland and Northern Ireland. I don't suspect it would be pretty.
1
@Matt
Yes, it would be terrible to return to the old days before the E.U.
@Daniel P. Doyle
I'm sure the negotiators have wargamed in detail the impact of no-deal on the island of Ireland.
For the rest of us, it does not bear imagining beyond knowing it will become a criminal haven for smugglers and terrorists.
It will be difficult to forgive the English nationalists for breaking the GFA. Also for deliberately trying to break the EU. Cynical vandals, as Fintan O'Toole once called them.
As an American who has lived abroad for 50 years, 40 of them in London, I have very different views from those expressed above. Did you know that Parliament cannot introduce bills, consult on them and vote? In order for a bill to become law it has to be introduced by the government. That's the role of the Prime Minister.
Somebody, somewhere, told Mrs May to appoint her political enemies to the Cabinet, where she can keep and eye on them.They are department ministers, she is the Prime Minister.
She became Prime Minister within days of the referendum that was fought with dodgy facts and Russian money (check out Carole Cadwalladr) but when MI6 began to investigate the sources of the Leave campaign funds, she ordered them to stop. I hope they haven't and when this blows over - years from now? - we'll find out what really happened.
So our Prime Minister, lacking in negotiating skills and finesse, finds herself hampered and hemmed in by her own ministers but unwilling to make alliances, ask other opinions or, especially, consider compromising on what her cabinet will not allow.
Her deal has failed dramatically to win over the House of Commons and the country. A petition went on-line to the government last night to revoke Article 50 - it has almost one million signatures already.
Parliament is fraught, but Mrs May is broken.
158
@Jessica- Yes, they should revoke article 50, pause, and come to some kind of agreement on going forward. But no one has the courage to step up and tell the voting public that they will not get the Brexit that was promised, a promise that was never possible. Instead, all the major parties are more interested in appointing blame and covering their backsides when the no deal happens. They are more concerned about winning the next election no matter how much suffering the people will endure because of their cowardice. Lions led by lambs.
15
@Jessica, I certainly agree that formally revoking the UK's invocation of Article 50 is the only plausible unilateral action that May's government could take right now in order to avoid a Brexit with no transition plan. In fact, since Parliament has made it illegal for the UK to leave without a deal, it seems that she is legally bound to take this one last option. I suspect that the fairest thing for her to do right now is to resubmit the current EU offer one more time, but make it explicit that the alternative would be to immediately revoke Article 50. If that didn't convince Berkow that there had been a substantive change, nothing would.
Given that May seems to be hunkering down in a bunker with the DUP and other hard Brexiteers, I am not sanguine. However, there is one more thing that could be negotiated if this path were decided on. When the EU court opened this lifeline in November they also opened a huge loophole in Article 50. The way it and the new precedent read now, there seems nothing to prevent the UK from revoking the current exit clock and then later reinvoking Article 50, opening a new two-year clock. This is exactly what would be needed, for example, for a second referendum or a new Government under Corbyn. Since a second invocation would be likely contested by the EU, perhaps May could get a guarantee from the EU of one more invocation, possibly with time limits.
5
wow I hadn't heard of the Russian angle in any detail. Sounds eerily familiar. obviously Russia was successful in destabilizing at least two Western Democracies.
8
We were made to expect some major address with significant information about Brexit. Instead, May just repeated herself and blamed MPs for the problems she has created through her intransigent delay. Had she held the first meaningful vote in December, she would have had an idea of where her plan stood (historically low in the estimation of her colleagues).
Any other prime minister would have resigned in the face of such catastrophic votes against her legislation. But no, she sails on, not even attempting to change course, right into the iceberg. Parliament needs to take control and revoke their legislation setting Article 50 in motion, until they can find a solution. And that solution: remain.
22
Completely disingenuous speech, as per usual.
11
@Joseph
General remark: "as usual" or "per usual".
The most common objection to the May Plan is that it really isn't Brexit at all, tho it would soften the drawn out process of negotiating a whole new relationship with the EU. But that tedious process is going to occur with either the May Plan or a No Deal exit.
If Parliament decides to vote "no" on a third Meaningful Vote, placing the blame for No Deal on May will sound like a joke.
The Murdoch supported media, and moderate Labor MP's are to blame as well as May. Labor leader Jeremy Corbyn has proposed a moderate Brexit solution, one that maintains union in a common market, for months. But rather than consider it, the conservative press and Blairite MPs prefer to stoke anger and resentment toward Corbyn. Mostly because of false, incendiary and hypocritical claims that he is an Anti-Semite. These charges have poisoned the atmosphere, and made the Labor party itself seem like a circular firing squad.
16
Brexit has exposed the rot of all the major parties in Parliament. They sold a fantasy of Brexit with nothing but rosy outcomes.Like all divorce proceedings some negative outcomes are going to happen, even if it is the right thing to do. May's leadership in this affair has been awful but her opponents seem more concerned with avoiding political blame and saving their their own hides then actually stepping up and solving the problem.
13
Making May the villain to get out of collaboration isn’t working.
6
Let us imagine you are on the board of a corporation. The CEO is tasked with re-negotiating a contract with your single biggest supplier: you rely on them for 70% of your raw materials, which you cannot get anywhere else. For two years, the CEO issues press releases bragging about what a tough negotiator he is and what a great deal he's going to get, he refuses to include the board in any of the negotiations or solicit any advice, he promises shareholders the moon and stars, and then--a month before the deadline--he presents the board with a "take it or leave it" deal that looks nothing like what was promised, assuming that the board will have no choice but to swallow it to save the company. When the board votes it down, who is to blame?
18
@D. Green
The Board, for failing in their duty of oversight.
18
@D. Green
Are you thinking of Trump? And the Board is his Republican Party?
Is it a thousand years of bad government for Britain or two thousand?
5
The point May is making is that the consequences of Parliament's inaction won't be felt by Parliament but by the people in Europe and Britain. Parliament is insulated from the consequences of its own decisions, but there are serious, irreversible consequences that will affect everyone else, globally. Parliament is acting without conscience for everybody else will have to endure the hardships. Parliament expects everyone else to keep that stiff upper lip, as the disaster unfolds in everybody else's lap, but they whine when the voice of the conscience, through Ms. May, rubs their pretentious noses in the facts.
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@Maxine and Max I am British, I live in London and I follow this very carefully.
Your analysis is pretty confused, so I'm not entirely sure where to begin. You mention that parliament's inaction and then reference their action. So which is it?
But to the substance:
1. Most MPs in parliament are against the idea of harmfully crashing out of the EU with no deal, which is why they voted (probably pointlessly) to avoid that - precisely to protect people who aren't insulated.
2. May triggered Article 50 -and therefore started the countdown- prematurely, with no plan. It is her fault that there is a clock ticking at all.
3. Apart from vaguely cohering against no deal, there is no consensus in parliament, which is why there is a deadlock. The idea that 'MPs' are one entity with a single point of view is patently untrue.
4. I have literally no idea why you think May is the voice of conscience. That's laughable. Her only objective is to remain PM. That's it. Nothing else.
5. The reason that Brexit is not going well, is because it is an inherently harmful and pointless project, akin to attempting to remove eggs from an omelette. There is no such thing a good Brexit.
Unfortunately, our country was presented with an intelligence test in June 2016 that around half of my compatriots failed.
Or to describe the referendum using a more British phrase: "If you ask a silly question, then you'll get a silly answer".
We were asked a silly question, and collectively gave a silly answer.
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@CM
'4. I have literally no idea why you think May is the voice of conscience. That's laughable. Her only objective is to remain PM. That's it. Nothing else.'
There WAS something else - to maintain the unity of the Conservative Party and mollify the ERG - that's what her actions suggest and deeds speak louder than words.
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@Lawrence in Buckinghamshire
There is good reason to think you and CM are both right. May desperately wants to stay P.M. and desperately wants to keep the party together. She may succeed at the cost of the British economy.
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Better a brief, terse, to the point address limited to the topic at hand than a rambling hour plus long speech bouncing inanely from one "issue" to another in chaotic and disconnected fashion like someone we all know.
Whether Ms. May is right or wrong as to how Brexit should occur, she is right to point out that Parliament, not unlike Congress, has sought to have it both ways, to criticize but never quite muster up a solution of their own. (Examples here abound - say, like stirring the anger pot about the president not releasing his tax returns, but for years never having introduced legislation to do that. Just easier to complain.)
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@George S
You expected the Republican Party to introduce that tax-return legislation and Trump to sign it? Really?
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Ms. May is responsible for the mess and harm that may come to most British subjects because she has been trying all along to negotiate a Brexit that is profitable for her husband's and friends' businesses.
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When you open the box, you find out if the puzzle pieces are big or small. This is the game that moves as you play. The pieces just changed shape again.
The maker of the puzzle has an absurd sensibility for design.
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To quote John Adams, "facts are stubborn things" and in the case of BREXIT and Parliament, speak for themselves. Parliament has repeatedly voted for amendments on issues that it does NOT want but has NEVER in this process voted for what it DOES want, and therefore PM May is correct in the assertions she made during her speech. They vote that "no deal" is off the table without saying what kind of deal they want. Now honestly, what does THAT mean? They have hemmed the Prime Minister into corner that has made negotiating Britain out of the EU nary impossible, and her accusations against these legislators are accurate.
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@ManhattanWilliam
I'm sorry, but May hemmed Labour into a corner, not the other way around. She refused to bring to the table any deals that had a semblance of passing parliament. Much of her own party doesn't even support her.
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@ManhattanWilliam
Parliament has been very clear on what they want. They want a deal that gives the UK all the benefits of EU membership, with none of the responsibilities. They are angry at May for not presenting them with this option.
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They've had the chance to vote no confidence in her twice and failed—they are as much responsible for this mess if not more. No one wants to pull the brake on the trainwreck that is Brexit.
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