Stop Fixating on One Elite High School, Stuyvesant. There Are Bigger Problems.

"The compulsion with STEM is producing a tunnel vision in which one kind of life is prized above too many others — the life of start-ups and public offerings and enormous windfalls." THANK YOU!! I have been saying this for years!!!!

"Of the more than 8,400 Asian students who took the specialized high-school test this year, more than half listed either Stuyvesant or Bronx Science as their first choice, while just 200 or so named Lehman or Brooklyn Latin as first choice." This is very important information -- where did it come from? And what is the breakdown of other ethnic groups?

Cultural worship for money over all other attainments

While I agree with the article and the comments below, I feel the need to point out again that the author repeats the common misconception that the elite schools set the cutoff. There is actually no cutoff score. Students taking the SHSAT indicate their preferences of the specialized high schools when taking the test. The scores are sorted, high to low, and each student is allocated their first choice, until that school is filled up. The lowest score that is granted admission to a school is what is referred to as the cutoff. Therefore the reason Stuyvesant comes up highest is that it is listed as first choice on the most applicants. In fact I know a parent who bribed her kid to select Stuyvesant as the first choice, even though he had other preferences. So yes, the parents are promulgating this status system. The mayor should be touting the available alternatives and developing more alternatives, rather than dis a system that he in fact took advantage of with his kids.

No one will argue that it's better to improve all our public schools rather than focus too much attention on a few. But I can remember when the state approved 90 million dollars for the construction of Townsend Harris, the elite hight school in Queens. In that same year kids in overcrowded schools in the Bronx were holding classes in converted bathrooms and kids in Harlem had plaster falling from the ceilings. We always hear these calls to support the elite schools accompanied by promises to improve all our schools. It's a promise generally not kept. So small wonder that black parents try, mostly without success to get their kids into schools that are well staffed and well funded. The answer really is let's do better for all our kids. But no one has explained why that promise keeps getting put off.

To say there are bigger problems that need to be addressed is the understatement of the year. From 2013 to 2016, 80% of incoming freshman at the City University of New York’s seven community colleges required remedial instruction. In 2017, only 62% were deemed not college ready, but only because the City University lowered the bar in math. It’s outrageous that many graduates of New York City’s high schools do not have the competencies needed to enter a community college. This can only be the case if the Department of Education fraudulently provides its students with credentials they did not earn. The Times needs to expose the circumstances that have allowed this to happen and hold the Mayor accountable for failing to provide its most disadvantaged students with a legitimate education.

The playing field needs to be leveled. We already know that the admissions exam is culturally and economically biased against minority students life and educational experiences. The real issue which is never addressed in this discussion is the inadequate education provided in elementary and middle schools such that the students are not remotely prepared to take these exams, not for high school or later for college. I know someone who taught for one of the test prep companies. She did her best with them, but the kids knew they had been written off by the NYC educational establishment, and their knowledge and skill gap was too huge to be remedied in a few months of tutoring. The predominantly minority schools get the least experienced or burned out teachers and the worst equipment.

*Rectify*? It is incredible the aplomb with which you frame Asian American dominance in a random area as a problem to be rectified. If any minority-dominated area should be "recitified", shouldn't the overrepresentation of Jews in the Ivy League or the legal/financial/entertainment professions and blacks in professional sports simultaneously be "rectified"? You say, "Presumably, a Stuyvesant graduate will have a better than average chance at getting into Harvard." This is decidedly not the case for Asian American Stuyvesant students, who have a much lower admissions rate than Stuyvesant students of any other race. The average Harvard admit rate from 1995-2013 was 13.2% for blacks, 11.1% for whites, 10.6% for Latinos, and 8.1% for Asians. Going by the information below, the admit rate for Asian Stuyvesant students to Harvard in 2014 was 6% and the admit rate for white Stuyvesant students to Harvard in 2014 was 13%. As part of a deposition for the Harvard lawsuit Casey Pedrick, Stuyvesant's assistant principal, was shown statistics showing that in 2014, Asian students were half as likely to be admitted to Harvard as whites: 7 of 55 of white students were admitted, compared to 7 of 115 Asian American students. Looking at the numbers, Pedrick began to cry. "These numbers make it seem like there's discrimination, and I love these kids and know how hard they work," she answered, when asked why she was upset. "These look like numbers to all of you guys, but I see their faces."

“no prestigious college uses a single test as the basis for admission”- Prestigious colleges have full time staffs of admissions officers who evaluate, discuss, and meet regarding applicants. There is no money -no staff - devoted to admissions at any Individual nyc public high schools nor will there ever be. With tens of thousands of public hs applicants - it will always be a computerized algorithmic numbers game. With no admissions staffs to evaluate candidates, there can never be the “holistic” evaluation called for by the chancellor. So can we finally stop this ridiculous comparison? But thank you for reminding people that the fixation on a handful of schools is also ridiculous. Can we talk now about how to lift middle schools, and elementary schools, more generally now? THAT is how you solve this. Oh, and more specifically- How about bringing back tracking and gifted programs to every school that qualifies by the nyc standards as economically disadvantaged (over 60% free lunch) -instead of leaving the brightest and/or well behaved to languish in classrooms year after year as teachers struggle to differentiate across the widest spectrum imaginable? Oh wait - we cant bring it back because the same ‘progressives’ who ended based on “elitisit” and “racist” charges are the same ones now demanding an end to “elitist” high schools. Gifted programs amd tracking were a bigger pipeline in elementary and middle schools past...and the high schools were more diverse then.

For years, I’ve wondered about the concept behind these ‘special’ schools. Shouldn’t the best teachers be farmed out to the worst students to help them along, to show them what they are capable of, to change the future?

The specialized schools only educate a tiny portion of the total NYC high school aged population. The controversy takes away the focus away from the horrible state of education for the masses.  Many Asian immigrants come from a culture wIth a study ethic and test prep industry that generates elite test takers. Let the specialized schools continue to serve them, or anyone else who can pass the test. The real problem is with the quality of schools where the kids who score in the 97th percentile and below have to go. This is where the focus and resources need to be directed.

As a graduate of Stuyvesant and a dad with two kids in a public school in East Harlem, I found this article to be very refreshing and wish to add my two bits. Despite its stellar reputation, Stuyvesant isn't some academic paradise. It too suffers from grade inflation, inept teaching, and cheating. Alas, the sad fact is that the city's other public high schools are so much worse. Talk to any teacher or high school student in the city's numerous other high schools and you'll be treated to horror stories about teachers and students not doing any teaching or learning, respectively. Too many students graduate or leave the city's high schools with a third grade competency in reading and math. I've seen this firsthand from having taught at the city's many colleges. At Stuy, kids learn to be cutthroat and cynical, but at least they can read, write, and do math. I'm also puzzled that the mayor and the school chancellor haven't set their targets on dismantling the city's gifted & talented programs. Getting rid of these dubious citywide and districtwide programs in kindergarten and elementary school, which ostensibly serve "the gifted" but also function in effect to siphon white and Asian kids out of brown schools, would do more to de-segregate our schools than re-tooling admission at a handful of elite high schools. To focus only on high schools without attempting to address inequities in the lower grades seems inconsistent, irresponsible and disingenuous.

I am a graduate of Stuyvesant HS, class of 1967, having graduated number 707 out of 711. I am a successful school administrator who has had a wonderful life, despite my time at SHS. To be honest, I hated every moment there, being pulled out my Queens neighborhood where all of my friends lived, having to endure chess tournaments while all I wanted was to be outside and play baseball. I had no school friends in my neighborhood as I took the "A" train an hour each way during the height of the rush hour. I recommend 8th grade students to stick with your neighborhood school, enjoy your friends and your life. Both are more meaningful than enduring Stuyvesant HS.

Again, slots at these schools are not "offered"; they are earned. That said, the job of parents is to parent, the job of kids is to learn patience and perseverance and apply those virtues to their studies, and the job of the DOE is to make sure teachers are given the right conditions to teach. Even 1-2 students acting out can ruin a class for all the others who want to learn -- and it's what happens all over the city. Finally, it is the job of schools of education (and politicians) to stop pretending all kids should be on academic tracks. There's honor and satisfaction in doing work that doesn't require an overrated BA. And then, down the line, there's always the chance of evening classes and a degree.

Finally an article pointing out the obvious: Schools like Stuyvesant only comprise 6% of NYC’s high school population. The inordinate time and attention paid to them by NYC’s leaders (and the press) results in the other 94% being neglected, as well as the entire pre-high school population. Maybe everyone prefers it that way to avoid having to tackle the larger and more difficult discussion as to how to reform the NYC system from the ground up so that every child gets an equal opportunity from the start. Because if leaders had the courage to fix inequity at its roots, then we wouldn’t be seeing such a skewed racial distribution in the first place, regardless of what selection criteria was used.

Between High Tea at noon and his 8am fitness appointment in another borough and his relentless campaigning across the country, Mr. De Blasio has no time to fixate on the larger issue of a generally broken education system in NYC. He would rather just score a few political points with the far left by characterizing as racist (and ultimately destroying) a test that consists solely of math and English questions. Never mind discussing how we can improve education for ALL kids.