Christ said,' Let the ones who have no sin be the first to throw a stone.' The hypocrisy of Catholic Church is boundless, Jesus Christ was just a wonderful human being.
Child rapists, child molesters, sexual molesters of all kinds and their enablers all get a pass from the RCC but a couple in a loving relationship?
Noooooo
1
If Melissa Marti worked in a Yeshiva, she would probably have to forego bringing a ham sandwich for lunch and eating it in the school cafeteria. All religions have doctrines and rules, and so does life. It seems a small thing to ask of someone who was already intending to get married, to simply set a good example for students at Cathedral High School. The article clearly disapproves of the actions of the school board, and makes a principled heroic fighter of Ms Marti.
In the same section of the newspaper, we read about two men, George Arison and Robert Luo, who are getting married and spending hundreds of thousands of dollars via in vitro fertilization to create a designer child. Like Ms Marti in the above example, they are defying customs and norms for their own ends. They seem like perfectly fine people who would make excellent parents – to a living, breathing, orphaned child somewhere in this sad, embattled world.
The New York Times is socially conscious on the front pages – today we read about older black artists having difficulties in the modern art world – but when it comes to Styles, you celebrate willfulness and a certain social irresponsibility.
But some male pedo priests having unfettered access to children is just, "Meh, what can you?"
2
OK, I suggest new guidelines for employees at Catholic schools:
You must submit a weekly, verified report of attendance at a Sunday service or a doctor’s excuse.
We require an annual verification that you have confessed your sins at least once a year and received Communion during the Easter time.
Any reports that you have used the Lord’s name in vain, including OMG, will be taken seriously and may be grounds for dismissal (see 3 strikes policy)
Incidences of lying or disrespecting your aging parents may also fall under the 3 strikes rule.
Any consumption of meat on Fridays during Lent is grounds for dismissal.
......just kidding, we really only care about sex.
2
Maybe I'm the only NYT reader who's been to both New Ulm and Olivia (the Renville County seat). It's a not unfamiliar story of rural area acceptance and denial in a changed cultural landscape that finds rural America the most active commuter culture in the nation, two lane roads or no.
With all the pedophilia and rapes that the Catholic Church has and still condones, they choose to take action on, compared to sexual assault, this (minor) "infraction"?
Yes, pre-marital cohabitation is against the rules. However, the church tolerated and even facilitated criminal acts by not reporting and just re-assigning these pedophiles and rapists to let them continue to abuse and assault congregants. While preaching against homosexuality the church really condoned it. The church shouldn't (be able to) turn a blind eye to something so egregious and then enforce rules against living together .
I wonder if Ms. Marti could bring a wrongful termination lawsuit against the church and win.
9
Cohabiting before marriage...not acceptable.
Sexual abuse against children by priests.
(Shrug) not too much..
We can cover it up.
8
I find the Catholic church so hypocritical. They have priests abusing boys, girls and women all over the planet while the leaders of the church turn a blind eye until they are forced to deal with it. Please, how do they suppose they have some moral high ground?
8
It is important to address Ms. Marti’s frustrations regarding this incident, and while there are arguments that have been made about the ethicality of this situation, the bottom line is that this teacher violated her teaching contract. The arguments made in this article are red herrings and are not getting to the bottom of the issue. Stating that the school was allegedly “being selective about the Catholic doctrines it enforced” is a logical fallacy. There are some doctrines that the Catholic Church has that are difficult to enforce without invading the privacy of the staff, i.e. the comments on birth control). However, the issue that is in contention was that her teaching contract stated that cohabitation was not allowed. If Ms. Marti had an issue with the teaching agreement, she should not have been teaching at the Catholic school. She was most likely not coerced into accepting a position within the Catholic schools, so any arguments about the lack of knowledge are invalid. Similarly, the news of the ultimatum should not have come as a shock to Ms. Marti, because these guidelines were outlined in the teaching contract she signed before becoming a teacher. While it is necessary to be sympathetic to the feelings of Ms. Marti, it is still important to again point out that if there was any concern about struggling to abide with the Catholic teachings while employed by the private school system, then she should not have accepted a position within that system.
5
@Comment: Did you read the article? She is NOT employed as a teacher. She is a dance coach. She works for a bank for her career; being a dance coach is a labor of love. What a shame that such narrow mindedness prevents her from coaching. I’m sure many dancers that she’s coached over the past 20 years (!!!) would say that she’s been a very good role model for hard work and team work, and many other positive traits. What hypocrisy. The Catholic Church continuously ignores the rape and sexual abuse of countless children by its priests but feels entitled to judge and punish this non-catholic woman for her relationship status. I will never understand how the Catholic Church still has followers.
Congratulations to her and her new husband. May they have a lifetime of good health, good humor and love.
11
This is nothing new at NUACS. They've been forcing teachers out for years. I'm glad someone has pushed back. But yet they blatantly ignore the background of the elementary school principal....they pick and choose who they push out. They lost really good teachers and the students are the ones who suffer.
23
@Unanimous YES!! Agreed, 100%!
2
@Unanimous A Catholic school has the right to do this, thanks to the First Amendment. If one cannot agree to the stipulations in a contract, one probably should not sign the contract.
2
@CC
Not if they are operating with government funds at all, they can't!
6
The leaders of the church don't live by its teachings. Church officials should spend their time investigating the horrors of sexual abuse and rape done by priests in their ranks. While they are at it, they may consider how the coffers of the church might be emptied to feed and clothe the poor.
14
To all the school's families who say they thought Ms. Marti was wronged, if you continue to send your kids there and continue to fund this institution, you are just as guilty as the administration.
8
Most Catholic schools have morality clauses in teacher contracts. It's really not news. Did she read the contract before signing it?
3
@CC Ms.Marti was never a Catholic and therefore is not expected to know all of the teachings of the Catholic Church, much less which ones they would choose to uphold versus ignore. Additionally, From a morality perspective, she had been coaching for 18 years— why her, and why now?
10
@Unanimous I think it can be expected for one to read a contract that one signs. If you sign it, you are bound by it. The article could have been clearer if a morality clause was in her contract or not. Or if she signed one every year, or was it 18 years ago. It doesn't matter if she's Catholic or not to abide by the contract. As for why now, they probably heard through the grapevine, and the board acted on it when they knew, that is their purview. A private, Catholic school has a right to do this.
2
As a Roman Catholic, I would like to address some questions put forth by previous comments. Firstly, this is not the Catholic Church dictating or interfering with her personal life. Please notice that the school gave the party an option to correct the problem or discontinue employment, simply to maintain the true teachings of the Catholic Church. This is not an injustice, this was a personal choice made by Mrs. Marti. Secondly, to go a step further on judgment (Although not even relevant in this case, I would simply like to share the Catholic stance), the Catholic Church teaches "Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another's statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love. If that does not suffice, let the Christian try all suitable ways to bring the other to a correct interpretation so that he may be saved. (CCC 2478) This teaching is simply saying that we cannot judge the state of someone's soul or their position in existence, but we may and ought to judge their actions. Therefore, as a Catholic institution, it is this school’s responsibility to uphold this standard. Anything less would be hypocrisy and inconsistent with the true teaching of the Church. As a Catholic, I am proud that this school was able to stand for what is good, true, and beautiful.
4
What does the school do to teachers that are divorced? Catholic doctrine requires members do “acts of mercy”. Doesn’t sound like the school itself follows that one.
6
Guess what...she signed a contract. She didn’t adhere to said contract and therefore was not offered a contract for the following year. Yes, she was given a deadline to get married but she CHOSE not to and as a result, she was in BREACH OF CONTRACT. She made her choice and threw a tantrum when she didn’t get what she wanted.
There was another couple with the same school that were living together and decided to live apart (honoring the contract they signed) until marriage so that they could continue coaching because they love coaching the kids in the school.
4
The hypocrisy of the Catholic Church continues to be breathtaking.
24
I would have resigned, with no regrets.
13
Wait, isn't the Catholic Church the non-tax paying institution who enabled thousands of priests to abuse children for decades? Hope the Catholic church is not in charge of teaching logic. This is beyond tone deaf.
29
to Ms. Marti and Mr. Visser,
Mazel Tov.
26
Having grown up Catholic, the first thing to go in the practice of my faith was confession. I walked away from it shortly after being confirmed.
"You have to tell me about your private life, but you'd be appalled and sickened if you knew what went on in mine."
I figured that if the clergy could forsake Matrimony, I could ask for Penance directly at God's feet, without the need for a broker.
The Church seems determined to make things worse than they already are and as bad as they can possibly be. It's not just the Vatican; it's the whole lot.
Last one leaving the nave blow out the two dollar votive candles.
17
The politics and religion stuff aside, this is a really sweet love story. I guess I'm just an old softie.
3
I recommend that Catholic schools fire or refuse to hire any divorced person; or anyone who has ever used contraception; or have ever had sex with someone outside of marriage (with or without the other person's consent); or who have ever been avaricious, or drunk; or lied; or disrespected their parents. The pre-hire questionnaire should be detailed and include a sworn statement of veracity and completeness. That should simplify the process.
25
Side note: The Netflix show “The Keepers” will tell you why I and so many others are no longer Catholic.
11
@Dreamline
Excellent show. One of the must-see on Netflix.
6
The Catholic Church at its worst: turning a blind eye to MEN in their priesthood who are pedophiles or rapists, while condemning a woman for "living in sin"!
Who is really "living in sin"? I'd argue that it is the church that is immersed in sin - and that this is just one more incident showing in what low esteem even the most capable women are held by those not-quite-celibate guys in the rectory.
13
From a small component of the organisation that protected paedophiles this smacks of hypocrisy to equal Pell's.
The concept of formal marriage did not appear until centuries after the concoction of christianity/catholicism and appears to have been an effort to cash in on ceremonies in the church.
For what it is worth, my sympathy is with Ms Marti.
10
Oh, ok, I get it. It is fine to shield and transfer priests who are destroying the lives of children they have abused. But an adult living consensually with another adult, now that's a bad example for a coach to set. Amazing, simply amazing.
26
And the Catholic Church wonders why the pews are emptying. Maybe the cardinals and bishops should clean up their own glass house before scrutinizing and throwing stones at others. For their penance, church leaders should perform a thorough examination of conscience and perform continuous acts of contrition. Anyone who attended catechetical classes or Catholic schools will recognize this recommendation.
12
Apparently, priests secretly abusing any number of adults and/or children is not as terrible as two people openly committed solely to each other and living together before they decide to marry.
The sclerotic Church needs an intervention.
10
This event (among many) illustrates the perversity that is at the core of the Catholic Church's approach to love and sexuality. It is hostile to the former and pathologically dense on the latter.
8
The moral posturing of the Catholic church is so absurd as to be humorous. Let's let them continue their march off the cliff.
17
What abuse of students by other faculty , ? clergy?, has taken place at this school?
1
The losers here are the Catholic Church and those students.
I think the Catholic Church should ONLY hire provably perfect Catholics to work in their schools - you know, the way they've only ordained provably perfect men to be their priests, and then only elevated provably perfect men to becoming bishops and cardinals, etc.
I wish Ms. Marti and her husband a long and wonderful life together!
15
That's my rural flyover Midwest. A busybody behind every lilac bush going tsk,tsk and incessant political attempts to return to the 1950's or earlier. No wonder half the kids leave and never return.
9
Wow! So an organization that cannot keep Priest’s hands out of children’s pants spends its energy making sure that people who love each other shouldn’t live together outside of marriage. Talk about having your head in the sand.
12
Interesting... The morals of the Catholic church are so high that they fire a beloved coach of 20 years, yet they turn the other cheek knowing that there are many priests still practicing who have abused and raped children. Best of luck to Missy and Seth!
8
Given the major moral stain spreading from the Catholic Church I'm amazed this is what they are high and mighty about.
7
Insert religion other than Catholic--would this article have been published?
1. This wasn't her full time job.
2. She coached seventeen weeks out of 52.
5
The Catholic Church just never misses an opportunity to shoot itself in the foot, does it?
Well, congrats to the happy couple from a very ex-Catholic!
11
The hypocrisy of the catholic church is beyond comprehension. They have the audacity to look into this woman's life which is hurting no one, yet they very conveniently look the other way at the global pedophilia that they've been covered up for decades.
8
I wish the church would also notify by email all the pedophile priests, who are also their employees, that they should report to the local police station and turn themselves in.
14
If this was part of her employment contract then the school had every right to do what they did.
I once worked for a small firm that absolutely forbade smoking. Period. You had to sign a form that you did not smoke anything, anywhere. I had no problem with it. Did not matter one bit if they allowed people to break other rules. This was a rule and it was expected to be followed.
This is a similar situation. If she was aware of the rules and agreed to abide by them she had a decision to make. She made it. Deal with the consequences.
4
She is not Roman Catholic. How can they impose on another's religious beliefs. Is her church less Christian. So wrong, so unAmerican. Enough of this meddling in our democracy by a foreign state, religious or not.
3
But isn't remarrying after divorce also a sin? I'm just confused ... It's a private religious school, they can do whatever they want, but if they have decided to actually impose Catholic law on straight people instead of just gay people, they are going to have a lot of work on their hands!
8
Happy for this couple and their love, and that she found a good job outside of the Catholic Church! The church has proven time and again that it is unfit to provide any moral leadership given all the scandals and unspeakable acts it has inflicted on the innocent. I can't imagine how event a small Catholic school can muster the feeling of superiority over an employee's living arrangements!
6
I'm deeply touched by this story.
I refrain from any invidious comments.
I just wish this lovely couple all of the very best life can offer.
They deserve it!
6
I wonder how many of the students and families at this school are catholic. I bet it doesn’t really matter provided they’re paying the school tuition.
35
@CC C I go to this school and most 90% of the people in the school are catholic. That being said most of the school was shocked by what happened since it didn’t seem anyone’s business and there didn’t seem to be a problem whatsoever
6
Love it! Rules must be applied, except by the clergy!
I go to a church that doesn't even perform weddings, and does not instruct people in who to love, live with, sex/birthcontrol, etc.
The only instruction is to love God first and foremost and your neighbor as yourself, which was Jesus answer to "what is the most important commandment."
But the church is not about Jesus' teachings. It's about perpetuating the institution. Why else would they try and control people through marriage and reproduction?
Sounds like incels aren't the only ones buying into the idea of the "great replacement."
4
Gandhi is often quoted as saying:
"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
While many dispute that there's any evidence he said this, the sentiment strikes home.
It's not simply Christians, it's every religion. But Jesus' message of forgiveness, helping each other, tolerance of failure, but not tolerance of cruel immorality, seeking peace, not wealth, seems much more focused, and much clearer, at least in this country.
Power and the desire to judge other people's harmless actions is a great corrupter on its own. So many "men of the cloth" go for the power over the message they are supposed to be championing regardless of the label on their faith.
4
If she didn't intend to abide by the school's rules regarding personal conduct, she should have never taken a position there. In all likelihood, she was required to sign off on those rules prior to being hired. But when following the rules she voluntarily agreed to became difficult she quit. What a poor example for her students.
21
I see, when she signed that 20 years ago, she knew that in 20 years, she was going to meet someone, “live in sin”, therafore she shouldn’t have signed it. Your logic astounds me.
The other writers comments about the church having a “plank in ones eyes” fits.
Let he who is without sin.....
100
@Jason B there is nothing in this article that says or suggests she was presented with a job contract requiring her to sign that she would not cohabitate-- something that in and of itself speaks of undue interference in one's private life. This small town mentality amd hypocritical mentality sadly, appears to still perdure in some communities. I will never regret the day I left the Catholic Church for its hypocrisy. double standards and attempts to dominate one's life by fear and damnation-- all the while by turning a blind eye on the criminal acts (sexual abuse of children) of its priests who, far from being a minority, represent only the tip of the iceberg.
117
@Jason B: Did you READ the article? She was working there for 20 years - and they didn't seem to have any issue with her being divorced nor with the fact that she is NOT Catholic.
And I wonder how many pedophiles that archdiocese has covered up for?
176
I was raised by a conservative protestant school and atheist parents. I've lived both sides, seen both the positives and negatives of someone who practices a religion and believes it is truth and someone who doesn't. As a result - I believe in a Christian God that exists, but have many, many doubts if not things I very much dislike about Christianity.
All I'm going to say is that Christ would be ashamed that this woman was not treated with love and instead shunned from a community. As an employer the line is murky between discrimination and keeping employees that align with their values... but this does no favors for the image of Catholicism and the devout. I wish that the media would report on some favorable things that the church has done for a more balanced perspective.
36
Thankfully, Ms. Marti was able to move on with her life and by all accounts has done very well. Unfortunately, the big losers in this sorry affair are Ms. Marti’s students who lost a reportedly trusted, highly regarded and loved teacher. For an institution that time and time again has shielded child abusers, to be concerned with Ms. Marti’s living arrangements reaches the apex of hypocrisy.
Reading about this simply confirms that I made the right decision when I decided to leave behind my Catholic upbringing and instead go to the local Episcopal church.
143
As a Catholic, I find this totally outrageous. The school had no right to interfere in her private life, especially considering that she is not Catholic and is under no obligation to follow Catholic teachings. Was this laid out in the contracts this school gave to all its employees? Follow Catholic doctrine to the letter or risk unemployment? If not, why are they making a big deal out of this now, and why with this particular employee? She’s also been divorced, which is also against Catholic teaching, and she was divorced for a while before she met her current husband. Why didn’t the school fire her the minute she got divorced if they’re so concerned with Catholic morals? Why was it OK to employ her as a divorcée but not as a divorced woman who eventually met someone else and moved in with him?
I also find the timing of their action suspect: this woman had been teaching dance at the school for 20 years and had been living with this man for several years when they threw this at her. I suspect that they were spurred on by either a vindictive faculty member or a hideous parent but either way, the fault lies with them. This school lost a good coach and the students lost a good mentor, and for what? So some jerk can feel righteous while waving the Catholic values banner for a hot minute?
I swear, every time I feel guilty about not going to church something like this comes up. I can’t believe they’re still pulling this stuff with the abuse scandal raging. Shameful and ignorant!
200
You also have to wonder about the reasoning ... In our day and age, a single adult divorced woman is usually not celibate, yet the school and the Church are willing to assume that as long as a woman is not living with a man, she is indeed not having sex. Why not simply extend this fiction to the case of a woman who is living with a man but not married? Why not assume that, of course, they are simply roommates? The Church politely ignores many things, why not also ignore this? The only way to hold onto traditional sexual morality while also hiring good people who are not necessarily religious is to ignore the things you do not wish to see. This is practically an art in the Catholic Church -- what happened to creative thinking?
16
@SDK why should it be a woman's load to bear in re: to celibacy? Would it not beholden on the church to scrutinize all single people for sexual activity to ensure they are in compliance with church teachings? How about rifling thru the medicine cabinets of married couples to ensure they are not practicing birth control? There is no church that should be allowed in the bedrooms of adults, married or single, unless they are paying the rent/mortgage.
14
Truly, it is astounding that anyone still believes that it is marriage that makes a relationship moral, good, or acceptable.
29
I would hope that the school be stripped of any charitable status as their self interest does not support the public good, only their view of what is “good”.
3
So unfortunate that the Catholic Church hasn't applied some of that investigative zeal towards addressing the far more egregious sins within its own ranks. Such moral inflexibility, properly applied over the last 50 years (or more) could have prevented extraordinary damage to so many lives.
25
I went to a Catholic convent school.
At the age of 15 or so, I inadvertently discovered that the school secretary ran with a gang of bikers.
It must have been OK though, because she was married to one of them.
Good Grief!
In 2019 this is still an issue? Even my devout 95-year old mother came to terms with the fact that my sister never married her second 'husband.' She's been with him longer than she was with the person to whom she was legally married.
11
If she was divorced, and not annulled they shouldn't have hired her in the first place. That also goes against teachings.
3
She certainly can be divorced, no annulment necessary-unless she were to remarry. The church doesn’t recognize the divorce but still pushes for her to get remarried? The whole thing is convoluted on the part of the RC. Never once regretted leaving that church!
7
Public schools also teach values; but if I'm teaching at one, unless I commit a crime, the administration doesn't concern itself with my private life. It only concerns itself with what and how I"m teaching and behaving in the classroom. The administration here could perfectly well take the same position and should! That is perfectly consistent with their moral stance. Didn't the Pope say something about not judging? And "Judge not, that ye be not judged." (Matt:7) . (The rest, about considering the beam in one's own eye, is not without relevance also, as most here have pointed out.)
5
Sounds like the school lost a good teacher, the girls lost a mentor, the lesson is the Catholic Church is a moribund, inflexible, and hypocritical institution. As a practicing Catholic and someone who attended Catholic institutions through college, I find it incredibly sad that the Church can't evolve with the times while continuing to preaching the Gospel of love and acceptance which is the embodiment of Christ's teachings. The Catholic Church will soon exist as a going concern only in the Third World where there are more pressing problems than who is living with whom.
55
@Rita ironically in other some other countries, cohabitation is required, and even bearing children, before people can be married in the Catholic Church. Cohabitation is not Canon Law. It’s about what is the cultural “norm”
6
The gnostic gospels get short shrift in the church. Who wants people deeply knowing, accepting, and trusting themselves, when i's so easy to control them by finding fault and convincing them they need you in order to get to heaven?
I've never been a believer. I've spent enough time in "Christian" churches, including Roman Catholic, to know that should I ever develop faith in a supernatural power, it won't be anywhere near these organized religions that derive their power from scaring and threatening their flocks.
And this is a church whose cardinals (to say nothing of "lesser" officials) have been found to have engaged in egregious conduct.
The hypocrisy is breathtaking.
34
A female coach was fired from a Columbus Catholic High School. Why? Because in her mother's obituary it mentioned her female partner's name. Some small minded parent thought it best to report it to the church. So in her time of great sadness of losing her mother, she lost her job too.
63
It's terrifying how many comments are condoning the school's treatment of a good person who was good for their students. Way to go, Catholic Church, you just isolated a whole new generation of potential participants, yet again.
35
@Mary: she is not “good for her students” in the church’s eyes if she is encouraging wrong behavior. I personally disagree with the Catholic Church in significant areas, and cannot say whether I would agree with their decision here, but as a church they should be concerned about an audience of one (God) and not about our opinions.
2
@Andrew - They should absolutely be concerned about God. According to the Bible, He has quite a bit to say about people who are full of sin yet insist on casting stones at others.
4
@Andrew
Where did you get the idea she was "encouraging wrong behavior"? Was she telling/encouraging her students to go live with someone? It sounds like she was encouraging them to be their best. Not sure how that is bad...
4
Complete hypocrites. I worked for Catholic Charities - which actually does the work of the church by helping those in need - and the employees were treated so badly by the Diocese ... while the Bishop and his cadre of men who worshiped him walked around like they were superior to everyone else. I just don't believe in the Catholic Church anymore and stories like this make me glad that I don't support the Roman Catholic Church any longer.
43
This is exactly why I am no longer a Catholic. Imagine, depriving young students of an inspiring teacher, while allowing priests to rape children.
I don't know how anyone can call themselves a Catholic with a straight face.
48
Yet again the church shoots itself in the foot.
25
Absolutely the Roman Catholic Church was out of line here, but this article spent way more time in pointing out how unreasonable the church was being than normal for these articles. I’ve begun to believe that the NYT has some anti-Catholic bias swirling around in it.
N.B. I am not Roman Catholic.
4
The Church needs to make a choice: hire real world people, accepting they have private lives that are out of reach of their regulations, or go back to running schools with only nuns and priests (good luck there)
18
How dare they. See where I am from. The Catholic church has no right to have any say in anyone's lives until they clean house.
28
Maybe the church wouldn't get in so much hot water if it can just figure out some simple truths. Truth No. 1: Don't tell a woman what to do.
17
When kids at school approach sex like a sport with scores and goals and bases? They’re just having a laugh. But a dance coach living with her love? Throw the (good) book at her, of course that’s what Jesus would do. Good on her, may she have a happiness abound.
12
@Rourke Kavanaugh methinks!
1
Somebody needs to tell the religious school police that if they want to follow their faith they should do something about the sex offenders, priests, bishops, and cardinals who were responsible for grievous offensives against Church doctrine. It’s the old adage, do what I say, not what I do. This narrow minded group of hypocrites should grow up. They are virtually destroying what’s left of Catholicism.
25
just one more example of religion spreading grief because some human thinks he/she can subvert god's plan to their own interpretation. in this case, black kettles, stoves, etc. pathetic. no wonder i have so many fellow former catholic friends. the Vatican is a centuries old hippocracy, with many cases of self-righteousness blindness.
7
The Catholic Church has an obligation to be consistent in its teachings. The choice presented to Ms. Marti was wholly in line with the values of the church. It doesn’t represent me or my values, but they have a right. Ms. Marci can work for them or not. I’m not Catholic. I’m not Christian but I support the Catholic Church in its efforts to maintain a consistency and integrity of belief. That’s what it was trying to do. You may not like it, but in a country founded on the idea of religious freedom, it has that right.
7
@Nancy I could not agree more; however, here in Indiana Catholic schools allow vouchers from public funds to be used for the payment of tuition. That's having your cake and eating it, too.
13
@Nancy I agree, consistency is incredibley important. The problem is she held the job for 18 years, several of which she was cohabitating, before this came up. That is the opposite of consistency.
I would also add she is not Catholic, never was, and the requirements of the job were never discussed asa condition of employment.
17
@Nancy if consistency is the stated outcome I hope the church is also combing the files and medical histories of the men they working for them. Find the ones who have had children out of wedlock, behind in childcare, have had vasectomies, etc. For far too long women in the church have borne the brunt of archaic rules and regulations while men were free to do as they please, until they create a scandal. Yes I am a Catholic.
3
If the powers that be in the Catholic church want to inspect 'sleeping' arrangements, they should start with their priests.
Forty years ago I belonged to a club and met a nice young couple who were living together. Neither felt ready for marriage, but her job teaching at a Catholic primary school was jeopardized, so they committed. When they separated a year later, she was able to get an annulment because he had refused to convert. But it was traumatic, and she was humiliated. Nobody deserves that kind of interference in their private life when it just doesn't matter.
51
When we were raising our children we taught them to respect different ways. But, we instilled values in our children we believed would help them in life. We are not in anyway religious conservatives, but, the concept of living together before marriage was not something we hoped our children would do. Our daughter was married 7 years ago to her high school sweetheart, and they are expecting their 2nd child. They did not live together before marriage and several of her friends who did have told her they wish they hadn't. I am ok with this high school, which charges tuition to parents who have a certain value system holding their dance coach to that standard. To expect to have the rules changed just for her is childish. We all have expectations in our jobs and our lives. Sometimes they are hard and we have to make adjustments. She may have cried in her driveway, but she wasn't willing to just go to the courthouse, get married, (and then have a lovely ceremony). So how important was this job? All she had to do was provide a marriage license. When did adults all become so needy and desperate and immature?
6
@Fleurdelis:
"All she had to do was provide a marriage license."
Apparently you hold the institution of marriage in low regard, if you say "all she had to do"!! Yeah, all she had to do was LIE by having a civil ceremony to prove something that she was not ready to prove, THAT is what you're really saying.
I don't subscribe to your values at all, since you think living together before marriage is bad, but lying is good. Nope, not my values at all.
29
@Fleurdelis
It is not the morality, it is the hypocrisy. How many of their staff members are remarried without getting an annulment first? They are not legally married in the Church's eyes. How many staff members are having affairs? I went to a Catholic high school. My senior year, one of the teachers was found out having an affair. He was not censured or fired ( although his wife divorced him). Two years prior to that, a female student got pregnant and was forced out of school. The student who fathered the baby was allowed to stay in class without harassment. The hypocrisy reeked even back then.
40
@Fleurdelis: Well, whoopee that your kids lived up to what you high-pressured them into. But out here in the real world, plenty of people have lived together before marriage & have done just fine both in life and in their marriage.
15
The moral authority of the Catholic Church is, at this point, weak at best.
If they focused more time on not having child abusers in their ranks (and covering it up) and less on things like cohabitation before marriage their membership wouldn't be shrinking in this country.
35
The Roman Catholic Church condemning so-called sexual immorality is comparable to John Dillinger condemning robbery. What kind of cucko la-la land do the bishops and clergy live in?
37
@J. C. Beadles Blinded by a sense of superiority the rest of us cannot comprehend, given the evil done in the name of the church and the evil they abet while pretending it doesn't exist.
1
They say that a mention in the NY Times is worth $40K of advertising. Well, the New Ulm Catholic School District has just informed its locals and the rest of the country which schools to avoid.
Congrats, Ms. Marti and Mr. Visser.
53
Wow coming from a Catholic institution that really takes the biscuit. The last time I looked having sex with underage children was not only not allowed but actually illegal but it didn't stop a lot of priests. Hypocritical much?
71
The hypocrisy of the Catholic church is astounding. And to this day, it still hasn't really dealt with the pedophile priests and those priests who raped nuns. The church makes a big stink about little things in order to hide the greater crimes.
47
"Let he who is not guilty cast the first stone". The Catholic Church should take care of it's own messes before if causes unnecessary harm and grief to a woman living a good and decent life and who contributed significantly to her community - not to mention the girls in Ms. Marti's class and their parents who were also impacted by this capricious enforcement of a foolish rule. There are more important things that the Church should be concerned about.
42
May they have a life of abundant happiness. Their smiles say it all.
It saddens me how often the NYT enjoys taking a swipe at the church. You are portraying her as a victim. She has made a choice and although she would have liked a different outcome if you want to teach/coach in a religious school there are standards. Can we all just agree that adults have freedoms to make choices and sometimes it doesn't work out the way you would like. If her job were that important to her she could have made a different choice. Creating victims where there aren't any is too often this newspapers mission.
6
@Fleurdelis What about the child abuse victims and the pedophile priests the church covered up for years. Does that sadden you as well? Those priests made a decision to abuse children and the church turned a blind eye to it. But you think it's appropriate for HER to be punished. Lord help us.
17
@Fleurdelis
The priests who preyed on children could have also made different choices. The Catholic Church could have made the choice to expel them instead of moving them to a new parish. I agree with you that we all have choices.
13
@Fleurdelis: It's not the Catholic Church's business to get into other people's private business. If it were, then Cardinal Dolan would have publicly excommunicated Governor Andrew Cuomo a long time ago. I'm still waiting for Dolan to clarify who has to follow the rules of the church and who gets a free pass.
13
I was raised a Catholic, and when I went to get married I told the priest at the college chapel that I really didn't go to church anymore. He told me I probably shouldn't' have a Catholic wedding. I didn't, and I've never looked back. BYE BYE Catholic church.
61
The problem is not just the Catholic Church. In 2002 I wanted to get married in a church. I was new to the central valley of California and didn’t have a church home. My future wife and I were living together. We looked at four churches. They were different Protestant denominations but were not concerned that we were not church members. BUT they all agreed with some strange theology that the wife had to sign a contract that she would be subservient to her husband! We were dumb struck. You have to understand that I had grown-up in the South and had been a church goer my entire life. So I figured they were just nuts, and we visited a fifth church. After visiting the pastor for over an hour, he surprised us by asking if we were living together.
Of course I said. He then said he couldn’t marry us, as we were living in sin. (Two years later, he performed the marriage of his unwed pregnant daughter in his church). By this time I was ready go pagan, wear shrubbery and hug a tree. We tried one last church, which was Methodist. As we were looking at the Sanctuary, an acquaintance of my beloved walked in and asked what we were doing there. I explained and she yelled “THE LOST SHEEP HAVE BEEN FOUND”. We had a wonderful marriage there, without the subservient baloney.
51
Which lesson do you think was impressed more profoundly on the minds of the girls of the Cathedral High School Sonics Dance Team: that cohabitation outside of marriage is wrong, or that you can be true to yourself and live happily outside the strictures of the Catholic Church?
The board of the New Ulm Area Catholic Schools might have taken a stand for one of the Church's principles, but the longer term interests of the Church and the schools might have been better served if they'd just left well enough alone.
68
“The morals she taught us about believing in ourselves” — having grown up in the Catholic Church I feel confident in saying that this is not a quality the Church values. Members of the laity are expected to submit to all decisions of the church hierarchy, not follow their own moral compass.
20
@RAJ
So true, RAJ.
Good sheep need "guidance."
Words fail me.
2
I was raised as a Roman Catholic and I find this story very disturbing in the wake of the biggest scandal the Church has ever had to deal with. I was taught that God is Love, and, if this is true, marital status means little or nothing when Love is the driving force behind two people's PERSONAL relationship! Holy Cow! I am glad that the universe and I came to the agreement that I do not need to go to a building and have someone preach their interpretation to something I am quite capable of reading to me in order to have faith.
21
“It didn’t make a point of determining which teachers might have been using birth control, for example.”
This completely misunderstands the traditional concept of scandal, which is precisely the issue here. You don’t have to agree with it—I don’t think anyone in the comments section will. But we shouldn’t be willfully ignorant of what the decision hinged upon here.
Birth control is, normally, a private issue—so no students are being encouraged by its practice. Cohabitation was—in this case, at least—clearly public, and thought to possibly set an acceptable standard for students that runs contrary to Catholicism. No one is completely free from sin, especially occasional sin. But scandal involves someone in a public role (ex. a teacher) diminishing the standards of behavior. The Church abuse scandal is an obvious scandal in the traditional sense.
Again...I’m not debating the issue...just pointing out that this is another example of reporting on Catholic matters without knowledge of the issue. A better line for the reporting would have been, for example, “It didn’t make a point of determining which teachers might have been remarried after a divorce without having received an annulment, for example.” At least that’s a similarly public issue contrary to Church teaching.
12
@Stephen M: I am a Catholic and I certainly *do* understand the topic of scandal, especially since the Roman Catholic Church has generated so much of it within its own hierarchy for decades, and usually at the expense of so many innocent young victims.
This school district is being awfully "cafeteria catholic"! If they are oh-so-concerned, then they should never have hired anyone who's been divorced in the first place. And they should never hire anyone who isn't a practicing Catholic.
So, therefore, this school district should insist on its strictest morals for administrators, teachers and students - even if doing that means they have to close down the entire school district. If they can't find enough of the "right kind of people" to teach in their schools, then be honest enough to shut the doors and turn out the lights.
22
@Stephen M ... another example of reporting on Catholic matters without knowledge of the issue...
I think we all know the issue of hypocrisy and treating women as chattel are century old behaviors for the Catholic church. If what you are saying counts for knowledge you might want to take an enlightenment pill.
8
This is a good point. In fact, it helps me understand how the church hierarchy managed to justify to themselves hiding the criminal behavior of priests who sexually assaulted children, seminarians, and nuns. They weren’t engaging in male solidarity or protecting themselves; they were rightly avoiding scandal! Ugh.
8
This is the church than for decades looked the other way as priests (and nuns) were abusing children and actively worked to hide these offenses. It should expend some energy on correcting and atoning for those sins rather than worrying about the living arrangements of a teacher. I suspect the fact that she's a woman also played into it.
Forty years ago I sought to be married in the church, mostly to appease my mother. We had to jump through hoop after hoop, including months-long marriage classes. Our choice to be married at a local college chapel was vetoed because the cardinal decided that everyone needed to be married in their parish church. I hadn't lived with my parents in more than a decade, and they had moved to another town, so the first time I set foot in my "parish church" was the day I was married. I thought that they should have made it easier for us to get married, rather than harder.
There were seven children in my family, raised in the church and educated in catholic schools. None of us remain practicing catholics. It is a church that is a danger to children and hostile to women. It would help if its leaders practiced some humility and empathy.
216
How did Ms. Marti's employer even learn of her living arrangement? If the employee arrives on time, does her job, and obeys rules of conduct while on the clock or representing the school in the community, her home arrangement is simply none of her employer's business.
An institution which for generations covered up and even enabled the continuing criminal conduct of some of its own priests has no business dictating the private life of employees willing to leave their home life at home.
333
In a town of 13,000 everyone knows everything.
14
Makes you wonder why it wasn't an issue until suddenly it was. Smells to me like someone wanted to get back at this woman or her now-husband for some slight and decided to do so in a petty way that ended up aggravating so many people.
I love the happy ending this couple is creating for themselves. It's so easy to get our lives stopped by unfairness, but they've just kept trucking. Their community loves them and their futures are bright.
12
@raph101 Maybe some bigwig’s niece wanted her job.
3
And this autocratic church holds tax exempt status because why ....?
150
What a shame, but all the better for the happy ending. Somewhere it feels like one human being started the whole thing. Doubt it made them happy.
14
Isn't that great?? They may have had a moment's delicious schadenfraude -- but that sweetness was no doubt followed by the terrible bitterness of watching the couple and the whole community flourish while turning their backs on the petty attempt to hurt them.
Did the snitch learn a lesson about minding their business and trying to spread joy rather than destruction? Highly unlikely. There's not much worse we can do to such people beyond sentencing them to live with themselves.
1
Intolerance is usually linked to nasty secrets. Righeousness
the smokescreen. So kids lose a fine teacher and learn
to costs of honesty.
23
@Poesy: Yep! I wonder who in that school district is "living in sin" (or worse) and pointed a finger at Ms. Marti as an attempted distraction.
9
Hard to stomach when so many priests have not followed the church’s teachings and have permanently harmed the lives of so many young people. Are all the priests in New Ulm now and in the past above suspicion?
97
If this was a rule the church planned on enforcing, it should have been a part of the contract, and the powers that be should have said something when the couple moved in together. The school hired a non-catholic, so there would seem to some acknowledgement of mores outside the catholic doctrine. The catholic church also requires celibacy, but didn't have a problem over the years hiding sexually active priests.
61
I'm really biting my tongue right now with great determination.
48
Congratulations to Ms. Marti and her new husband.
But it is maddening that the Catholic Church denies marriage to its priests... that then often causes them to sink into hidden, forbidden sexual or aberrant behavior, often with minors.
7
@MyOpinion
Did you read about all those sexual abuse victims in the Southern Baptist Church? The pastors and other church officials who were the abusers were often married. None had taken a vow of celibacy. I now think that sexual abuse come as a result of power, not unrealistic vows of celibacy.
4
Good for her. Uneven, sporadic and selective application of "religious requirements" is not a sign of faithful dedication to Catholocism; it's a sign of petty, controlling and deeply flawed leadership.
Ms. Marti did the right thing and any other employee of the system, man or woman, who was in or might some day become in violation of a similar "rule" should take the next opportunity to get out.
105
Religious organizations have the right to insist employers comply with their religious doctrine and tenets. Most employees agree to conform when they apply and accept positions with religious organizations. Cathedral High School gave Melissa Marta reasonable options.
20
@William Case
"Religious organizations have the right to insist employers (sic) comply with their religious doctrine and tenets."
Would a Catholic school have the right to deny employment to a Jewish teacher who found the sacrament of the Eucharist to be idolatrous and offensive?
14
@William Case
The article states that Catherdral High School picks and chooses which tenets of aith to follow. I agree if you work for an institution with rules, then you need to abide by. I also believe that if you are the institution, then you need to enforce all of the tenets of faith of the Catholic Church.
Congratulations to the happy couple.
7
@William Case If they feel free to ignore some rules and all rules for some people, then their employees should feel the same. A strong and supportive female leader sounds like just what the Catholic church needs to cultivate. Who would risk leaving their child alone with a Catholic priest of any rank, and how haughty of the Church to enforce such silly rules when their house is far from in order.
41
Congratulations, and my sincere best wishes. As for " the Church ": you have your own House to clean. Period.
184
A school is entitled to expect its teachers to model moral behavior for its students.
I'm not Catholic, but the idea that couples should be married if they live together is subscribed to by all religions, and is only common sense. Flouting it sets a bad example for the students. Cohabitation should demand a serious commitment, and marriage is the means to give that commitment moral, legal and sacred force.
15
@Jonathan Katz-I think there is a right to a private life. Perhaps if one is an actual religion teacher, one should perhaps live by the precepts of the religion. Then again, all those priests, practicing the very opposite of what they preach.
34
@Jonathan Katz - if you believe that couples should be married if they live together, then by all means don't live with your partner outside of marriage. However, your beliefs give you no authority to decide what other people should believe and how they should live. This is strictly a private matter between consenting adults and should remain that way.
92
In your opinion.
I keep my nose out of other peoples business. Being concerned what other people do with their private parts sounds unhealthy to me
13
So happy for them now, and wishing them every blessing.
However, I am puzzled why she was angry when the church acted according to its principles and acted against cohabitation. True tolerance means allowing others to hold strong opinions, whether it is about rights or responsibilities. Taking a position at a Catholic institution should involve keeping to house rules.
To anticipate responses: no, I am not a Roman Catholic. And the other point: while it is indeed sad that a minority in the RC church has found it difficult to live up to other principles that make the news headlines, that is no reason to drop its other ones.
13
@Andrew The bride wasn't Catholic. The Church would be better off dealing with it's own moral failings before casting the first stone.
83
@Andrew (1) The bride was not catholic, so not their business, and (2) people in glass houses should not throw stones --- the same catholic clergy turned a blind eye to the horrendous cases of child sexual abuse by their own priests, and abandoned children fathered by a supposedly celibate clergy. And they have a problem with a woman cohabiting? Sheesh!
26
@Andrew Isn't it, though? Perhaps the Catholic church and its school systems have better areas to focus its energy, and perhaps they should weigh the value of a strong female role model in an era where every figure of Catholic authority is suspected of having a role in child abuse?
11