Will the horrors never cease?
We have many allies. While there have been abberations in some countries, this kind of thing has never been a policy in civilized countries. Nazi Germany and some of the southeastern asian countries, yes; and we have not been saints, particularly in our dealings with Latin and Central American countries - and, of course, not with our own native Americans. Idi Amin, Pol Pot...and now, MBS.
Saudi Arabia needs to consider its current ruler. And we need to consider our alliances.
6
Saudi Rapid Intervention Group, sounds very American, the Saudis lack both the imagination and drive to put together such a team and train its members, this has to be the brainchild of the CIA sold to the Saudis as a must have adjunct to their security services.
The CIA and the Saudi security services have been working together hand-in-glove for many years, its is unimaginable that the SRIG would have been set up without the direct supervision of the CIA.
The question is what was the CIA's involvement after the group was up and running.
3
MBS is an old fashioned tyrant with expensive modern cars, private jets, etc.
He is to be reviled.
5
Saudi Arabia looks like a modern country but in fact it is still an old tribal culture ruled by authoritarianism. MBS’s behavior is long considered by their culture to be completely within the norm. Western cultures don’t have to do business with them but to be shocked by their behavior shows cultural ignorance.
8
Doesn't the US have a list of State sponsors of terrorism? Given their recent and past activities, Saudi Arabia should readily qualify. I'd like to see Mr. Pompeo testify before the applicable house committees why his State department is not classifying Saudi Arabia as such a State sponsor of terrorism. Sending death squads consisting of trained torturers and killers to other people's countries is an act of terror, isn't it? But then, candidate Trump often went on about 9/11, spouting all kinds of nonsense like Muslims in New Jersey celebrating it (they didn't, was never proven ). These attacks, which killed over 3,000 Americans, was perpetrated by citizens of Saudi Arabia, and most certainly a vile, terrorist act. Importantly for this subject, the Saudi government did nothing to stop it or other activities of Bin Laden and consorts. I noticed that Trump hasn't mentioned the 9/11 attacks recently; I wonder why? I guess he and Jared got paid, and handsomely so.
9
If Ivanka Trump wishes to be considered a champion of women's rights, she must condemn the torture of these courageous women and demand their release. If she - seemingly a good friend of the Saudi's Prince of Terror - cannot do so, yet continues to meet with MBS, she must be loudly repudiated from Congress, as well as the press.
8
it is berating the common person's intelligence when the Saudi mouthpieces say Saud alqahtani is under house arrest. this is a nation of meticulous liars. lying is bred from childhood. Therefore what ever they say about putting murderers on trial is total hogwash.
3
So Prince Mohammed is a "forward-thinking reformer with a grand vision to modernize the kingdom"?. Seems to me that Saddam Hussein was more "forward thinking" and in many respects did more to "modernize" Iraq than the "Prince" has for his country. The U.S. government's embrace of murderous totalitarian thugs, especially of the "religious" (opposed to basic human rights especially for women i.e.) zealot kind, is getting more disturbing by the month.
4
I think if the Western leaders just shut out the Prince , no talks,no meetings , no communications whatever , he will lose his power and be banned to a castle in the desert . This can be done without affecting legitimate business dealings with the Saudis.
2
Here are a list of the US companies that do business with Saudi Arabia. For the average American, many of these companies are hard to boycott, but you could sell your stock holdings in them, if you have them.
Any high level executives that read this paper and are in the position to make decisions to work with them could also have influence that impacts their bottom line. Money is the only thing that makes a difference unfortunately.
http://the-saudi.net/business-center/links-usa.htm
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/corporate-americas-deep-ties-to-saudi-arabia/
Plus, this great article NYT reported on McKinsey last year
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/22/business/.../mckinsey-saudi-dissidents.html
2
Americans need to ask themselves. Why is Jared so Chumy
Chumy with Bin Salman, after all that has come out? I fully understand sometimes you do business with everyone. This was a American resident working for a American Newspaper. Where is the Outrage from this Administration? The world sees the American voters as fools based on this Administration.
3
American allies at their finest. (cue eye roll)
1
I feel confident that US foreign policy toward Saudi Arabia is set in part great part by the petroleum industry. The west needs to do everything we can to free our dependence on fossil fuels to both economically cripple totalitarian petro-states and end our complicity with their behavior. Besides saving the planet and creating new industry this would be a benefit of a Green New Deal.
The "Saudi Rapid Intervention Group" sounds like just another name for a state sponsored death squad. Everybody seems to know about Saudi torture and political repression, but nobody seems to know how to stop it.
Perhaps we need to place tobacco-style warning messages next to the lever at every gas pump, that reads: "WARNING. Use of this product may lead to the torture and execution of innocent civilians in Saudi Arabia."
4
Softbank's Masayoshi Son had a chance to distance himself from bin Salman after the Khashoggi murder. But no. He thought the Saudi investment in his Vision Fund was too important. And he took MbS at "his word". Sound familiar? We got a president who also took MbS at "his word". No doubt that this president and his son-in-law have vested interest with the Saudis. America First -- for suckers.
2
MBS is a dictator and a thug, who acts the same way their prior Sauci leaders acted throughout time. the documentation against Saudis noted in this article is cold and chilling. The worst case that we know about so far, is the obscene torture and cold blooded murder of Khashoggi, which they have still denied.
That Kushner is his best buddy, is also just as bad as MBS. He is in it solely for his personal and family's self-aggrandizement for Kushner family investments.
What needs to be investigated is Kushner's involvement in obtaining US permission to obtain nuclear power and arms from the US, in return for Saudi investments, and any non-compliance therewith pursuant to US laws, approving same.
And if that is the case, Kushner and any other alleged culpable party need to be investigated by the appropriate US entity, and thereafter prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, if it is found that they have violated the US laws for the sale of atomic weapons and/or energy.
1
So glad the Saudis are our friends.
Once more the United States back a despotic regime.
4
All one needs to do is look at how Saudi Arabia treats its women to understand just how repressive and oppressive this government really is.
If women who just want to drive are being subjected to torture and imprisonment -- is it any surprise the lengths they'd go to just to silence dissent?
7
Saudi Arabia once had us by the throat because of their vast oil reserves. They basically controlled the price of oil. Today we have no real reason to treat them with kid gloves. We no longer need Saudi Arabia for anything. Frankly, I do not see why Iran is regarded as such an enemy while Saudi Arabia is regarded as such a friend.
6
Jarad don’t turn your back when you leave the negotiating room.
2
Saudi Arabia is a different universe. They and we, the secular Judeo-Christian west, will never understand each other. Let’s just live independently of each other. If the Saudis don’t like their system, let them revolt. Not our problem. One thing we can do is to provide safe asylum to those who escape. In my view, their biggest sin is that they imported millions of slaves whose lives are miserable. Let me add that, unlike most commenters, I visited Saudi Arabia several times (and lived to tell my story).
2
9-11 was brought to the U.S. from Saudi Arabia. We must never forget.
11
Add Saudi Arabia to the international list of terrorist countries and stop ALL American investment in that desert theocracy.
5
What Americans does not realise is that even under the House of Saud, most citizens were honest. Their friendship with America has made them deceitful, dishonest, and murderers. I wish we could roll back time to 1945.
And it seems completely reasonable for me to believe that Jared Kushner must have shared US intelligence information about the Prince's enemies in order to facilitate the evil. It seems likely that it was precisely because of his relationship with the Saidis that his security clearance was not supposed to be granted. With this administration it turns out that even the most preposterous explanations of its behavior pretty much always turn out to be true.
3
House committee should investigate
Jared Kushner's relations with the crown
prince, MBS. What is the nature of
coziness: business deal or simply
move Saudis close to Israel.
Bush family was close to the royal
family. Obama was so concerned
about the special relationship he
canceled a scheduled visit to Taj Mahal
in India and rushed to Saudi Arabia
to offer condolences on death of King
Abdul Aziz. The nature of this relationship is a puzzle wrapped in enigma. it needs investigative reporting.
7
Please explain to me again how the Kushner/Trump Middle East peace plan using Saudi Arabia as the main lever for peace won't come back to haunt the world?
5
We don't live there so we have no idea what anyone is up against. Don't get involved. We should have learned that lesson by now.
1
Trump administration is encouraging illegal (violation of Islamic principles) behaviours by the NOBABS claiming sovereignty over the Holy Lands of Islam.
For this God will punish Americans who elected him.
If only. Those who elected Trump insist that Gd is on their side. That leaves whom in charge....?
2
No oil, no Saudi family dictatorship, no MBS. Simple as that. We know what to do. We know why we are not doing it.
4
Mohammed bin Salman was thought to be a reformer who was going to bring the country into the modern age socially and end the Wahhabi support for violent jihad to convert the world to Islam by terror. It turns out that he was just trying to consolidate the power in the country to be centered on him. Worse he’s either mentally ill or a human predator, the kind of man who tules by terrorizing not by good leadership. He needs to give up power and the U.S. should apply pressure to make it easier for the people in that country to do.
1
Please keep shining a light on this. The Saudis can't control all of the media. There needs to be a continued focus on their indifference to human rights and their continued fostering of Wahabbism and their brutal war practices (which the U.S. has shamefully abetted).
6
Trump is besties with all the world's autocrats. He envies them, because they can jail, torture, and kill their opponents.
[3/18 noon]
9
We need to cut ties with this regime and stop selling them weapons. The U.S. government should also put the kind of sanctions that we put on Iran, North Korea and others until the House of Saud is consigned to the ash heap of history and MSB is swinging from a rope like Saddam.
7
It doesn't appear then that the US Senate will take any action that won't be vetoed by the US president; however, the fact that the Senate took action against US involvement in the Yemen war suggests there is some hope for more sanctions.
While this article shows the extensive reach of the Saudi "killing machine" and the urgent efforts waged to silence dissidents, we must understand that in killing Khashoggi, Saudi authorities were doing more than just killing a dissident; they murdered a journalist who had command of global speech, if you will, through his column at the Washington Post.
Through a combined effort by UN, EU, USA and other pro-free speech NGO's, a sanction that draws a line in the sand around nation / state acts of impunity against journalists can / must be established.
Using civil court levels of evidence, "preponderance of evidence," which certainly is evident in the Khashoggi assasination, then penalties should be assessed and sanctions used to compel the Kingdom to pay up.
Establish a fund in Khashoggi's name that protects journalists from authoritarians.
4
Let embargo them and place sanctions on them and deny them the right to export any goods including oil just like we have done to numerous other countries. Thats the American way.
5
Perhaps this information should be shared with Jared Kushner and Thomas Friedman, two of MBS's closest friends and supporters.
4
MBS is a psychopath who should be taken out of power, for the good of his country and the world. That he's best buds with Kushner says all you need to know about both men. That he needs his own death and torture squad is weak, paranoid and despicable. We should put Saudi Arabia in the penalty box as long as MBS is in power.
7
It’s not surprising that Trump and Co. want to be best friends with the Saudi’s. Both groups are corrupt, immoral, power-hungry misogynists who will do anything to gain wealth and power. And they’re both a threat to the free world.
8
Abuses like this happen whenever power is concentrated in a ruling elite. The lives of the less powerful are deemed insignificant. The only thing of value keeping and expanding power and subduing rivals. It's already happening here with the poor and needy deemed unworthy by wanna be oligarchs in the Republican party.
7
This Saudi regime is an abomination. The US, simply by being allies, is complicit. Remember this in 2020!
14
What does the US need from SA? Nothing. We no longer need their oil. Moreover, they are not a stabilizing effect in the Middle east given their behavior in Yemen. Therefore, cut off military aid to these leaders and hope that the corrupt leaders are overthrown and suffer the fate of other worthless dictators in history.
8
We import about one million barrels of oil per day from KSA. We consume about 20 million barrels per day. If we completely stopped the KSA imports, that would be merely five percent, which we surely could get from elsewhere (or, possibly, conserve a little?).
A little over a century ago Saudis were riding camels and living in tents around oases. And they were not wreaking havoc elsewhere. Perhaps they need be made to return to those simpler times.
5
Don’t blame the Saudi people, especially the women. They didn’t choose the Saudi hereditary dictatorship.
2
@Peeking Through The Fence
You have a good point. This is so typical of totalitarian countries: the people don't count.
Women in KSA are treated like slaves. And, sorry I must admit, they are just gorgeous when you can actually see them.
Chickenlover's wistful description of the candidate we need to elect next time--"a sane, sensible, erudite, and thoughtful POTUS who respects the media and believes in facts"--reminds me of the one we had last time.
Is there anything in the constitution that forbids a former POTUS to run again, after a gap in serving? On the other hand, being demonstrably sane, Obama would likely never step back into the White House, after it has been so slimed.
2
Yes. Two elected terms only.
Jared Kushner picks only the best people as friends. The US needs to reconsider it relationship to the Saudis immediately.
5
I have urged the Saudi engineering student living in my boarding house not to go home, but to emigrate to the United States permanently. I can't imagine living under this kind of dictatorship.
4
Thanks to the New York Times for this exclusive reporting on the brutal tactics of the Saudi Regime.They are not our allies and deserve condemnation for their treatment of their citizens including the reporter for the Washington Post Jamal Khashoggi.They are persecuting Women for driving a car? They should be enabling their women to become physicians, researchers and professors. I don’t know what calendar they use ,but it is 2019, not 1519, the dark Middle Ages.
6
All the top US company executive leaders who met with MBS on his well publicized tour of their companies should renounce him publicly. Please Tim Cook at Apple.
6
There we have it again. Saudi Arabia is a sick autocratic society that refuses to evolve with rest of world with the sole exception of serving its own internal interests. Multinational Oil men & women should be sanctioned directly perhaps and required to pay Saudi-related reparations to the U.S. Treasury going forward. Saudi oil, like Iran oil, will always make it into the global market for no lasting price effects at day's end. Cut the cord.
Makes me grateful for all the courageous people here in the US who stand up to bullies.
2
The kingdom takes allegations so seriously that it silences the people who allegedly suffered. Lets the women drive though.
2
Do we owe Saudi Arabia money? Have they promised to buy the Boeing Fleet that falls out of the sky? Do we need their oil? Is Iran that great a threat to our country that we need to get in bed with sociopathic murderers, slavers, and haters of women? Why exactly do we have diplomatic relations with this country?
9
Iran is bad as Saudi Arabia, and on top of that they explicitly state creating instability through their proxy war and making nuclear weapons. Therefore, The US has to go with the least problematic country.
And the republicans are okay with Jared and Ivanka meeting with this murdering regime? What does that say about this country?
7
Hey folks, it's a monarchy not a democracy.
1
It should be embarrassing to all who participated in the MBS dog and pony show across the country last year. Follow the huge Saudi investments in many large U.S. companies. Compass Real Estate and Uber are two of many in California.
MBS has inoculated his country from criticism from many in power here due the intertwining business and Congressional loyalties/relationships/investments/bribes.
Reading about the plight of Saudi women’s lives (they all seem imprisoned even if not in actual prison), thinking about the details of Khashoggi’s murder and hearing about MBS’s
other “leadership” choices and actions influence my opinion of the country as a whole. Trump and Kushner are complicit since they are “buddies” with this thug.
5
Precisely the M.O. of a tyrant who maintains control over the many. How dare one whisper a word, engage a thought or perform an act that expresses the slightest transgression against the youngest defense minister in the world, the kingdom's deputy prime minister and the first in line to the throne. I recently read the following;
"The Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi has been stripped of some of his powers by King Salman. The Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman has faced claims he may have ordered the hit on journalist Jamal Khashoggi who was butchered by a Saudi hit squad in Istanbul last year. www.dailymail.co.uk/3-18-2019.
Why? Because;
"Mr. Riedel said the team’s sloppiness showed that it was used to operating freely inside the kingdom and not under the watchful eye of an adversary’s intelligence service." King Salman
The Saudi king should consider replacing a hypocritical, blood thirsty prince, unable to rule fairly. Pretending to uphold western values while at the same imprisoning, torturing and killing dissenters do not qualify Mohamed Bin Sultan as a competent leader. He brings dishonor and shame to the kingdom. And the United States should stop lusting after Saudi money and impose sanctions on Saudi Arabia.
1
Is it any wonder trump's clan loves MSB, he is narcissistic, a liar, dictatorial places himself above the law nd then denies all culpability. It must feel like good old home week for them.
7
Seems irrelevant. I see a lot of comments on here stating that we should boycott Saudi. Why is it the United States’ job to police another country’s government? The US has done these types of things as well 🙄
2
The Saudi regime is just that a regime, a huge tribal family who crowned themselves about 100 years ago, and now have all the wealth their oil. This wealth has given them great hubris.
For many years now due to their oil we have not questioned their lies about about what goes on inside the closed “kingdom”. But we do know about how they treat women and the foreign workers. We do know they cut off peoples heads for capital punishments. And for far lesser crimes public whippings which is torture. Yet they deny. This deceit is no different than many past and current dictatorships. Why should we respect this country like our other nation friends in the face of decades human rights abuses?. We do not need their oil. We can accelerate our Green Economy at home in the US. And promote peace in the middle east with diplomacy and other non war or weaponized means. Lets try something different.
10
It’s their wealth and already made investments that leash the big multinationals and congress (and of course, tRump) to the Saudis, not the oil. We are already in so deep with these sadists that it’s going to be hard to separate.
Imagine how much intelligence Kushner could be sharing with MBS including methods and sources. This, in turn, could be used to abuse Saudi citizens. Kushner's reason for doing so is the potential for business deals. We are possibly enablers.
10
The press is doing what our government has failed to do: hold the Saudis accountable. Is it any surprise Trump characterizes the press as "the enemy of the people"?
11
All this, to secure profits for American military contractors? The men and women I met years ago when I volunteered for the U.S. Army would gladly support withholding our armaments from these murderous thugs, whose actions are an insult to the Constitution we took an oath to uphold and protect. Trump is a disgrace as a Commander in Chief.
11
US alliances with unsavory regimes is nothing new, and turning a blind eye is a tried and true tactic. If our political leaders choose to get involved, then the decision for Congress is whether such regimes -- which, like Saudi Arabia, usually are located in geopolitically sensitive regions and which provide the US with unique intelligence or military access -- supply benefits sufficient to offset public opinion's distaste for news such as this being reported today in the NYT.
My guess is that the US-Saudi alliance will continue into the indefinite future. And that, in my opinion, is as it should be.
1
NYT, please publish a list of American businesses which do business with Saudi Arabia, including business provided by the US government. Then we US citizens can boycott these businesses, refuse to do business with them.
27
@Anne Russell I goggled just your question and here are links that provide the answer:
http://the-saudi.net/business-center/links-usa.htm
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/corporate-americas-deep-ties-to-saudi-arabia/
1
The west is absolutely dependent on Saudi oil. Let that oil be cut off and the world economic system would collapse. Perhaps this state of affairs puts blood on all of our hands.
3
@Gary
The US does not need Saudi oil. This is more about our need for a regional bulwark against Iran than it is about gasoline.
2
@Frank J Haydn. The world economy needs Saudi oil
Our economy is interdependent on the rest of the world. Let Saudi oil be cut off and we, too, suffer. Sorry. No country is an island when it comes to the global economy.
Either MBS knew about and ordered Kashoggi’s assasination or he did not. If the former is true, that makes him a sociopathic despot; the latter case, which he seems to be promoting, makes him a tool in the hands of his security services and a puppet ruler who can’t control his own country. Either case means he is an unreliable ally and must be kept at arms length and slapped with financial sanctions that would make it difficult for him to travel and move his money around the international financial system. MBS is no better than Kim Jong-Un or Maduro and should be treated as such.
6
And surprise. surprise, Trump supports Prince MBS. But, maybe now that Congress has ceased supporting the Saudis in Yemen, things may begin to change. Fingers crossed!
6
@Sam
Don't get your hopes up. No one in the US knows nor cares about Yemen. That's easy to give up. But not the alliance with Riyadh.
1
Reporting on this international outrage should be conflated with stories coming from coverage on Homeland Security on the US / Mexican border now intercepting and detaining American attorneys and journalists!! These intercepts are demanding access to the iPhone contacts and messages of these American citizens attempting to return across the border.
Prima Facie this appears to be policy cut from a totalitarians clothe. Yet further evidence of high crimes by the President of the United States against our freedom and democracy.
9
The world is a big and interconnected place. Like it or not, many of our allies are dependent on Saudi oil and the Saudi's play their part in keeping the lid on the powder keg that is the Middle East. The world still has some key strangle points and the Saudi's are at the center of one. Every President since Roosevelt, every current major European leader, every significant Asian country have paid court to the Saudi's. Comes with the Territory. President Obama, the gold standard of correct Presidential behavior, had several reciprocal meeting with Saudi's and described warmly our relationship.
3
Ok, so then what is the correct way to deal with their abuses?
4
I wish this myth of Saudi oil dependence would go away. We import far less oil from Saudi Arabia today than ever before. At the start of 2018, we were importing about 6m barrels a day, and now we’re importing less than 2m a day, and there is enough evidence to show that number can and very well may drop to zero.
Donald Trump loves MBS for the same reasons he loves Putin and Kim: these men have the power Trump wishes he could have.
5
The deeper journalist dig into (our friend) Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman's actions the worse it becomes.
Secret 'Rapid Response Teams', imprisonment of family and other suspected dissenters, the murder and dismemberment of a noted Saudi journalist , and the imprisonment and physical abuse of women protesting for their human rights are actions that our government should be critical of rather than embracing.
No amount of 'potential treasure' dangled before our "leaders" should be allowed to blind the eyes of the American government.
10
@Lalo
So, connect the last dot for me: What are Mitch McConnell and Lindsey Graham getting out of this?
Their obstruction is all that is holding Trump up.
Why? What's their game?
1
@rosa
Because they have access to classified USG documents which spell out the vital necessity of maintaining our alliance with Riyadh. Anyone who knows ANYTHING about Saudi Arabia knows this.
Somehow, our media and politicians lead many of us to believe Saudi Arabia is a "friend" to us and has at least a part of our own approach to life and values. We should now be concluding that the royal family members are not friends and do not share our valued other than uncontrolled wealth.
If this article is true and the guy commonly - and pleasantly - called 'MBS' is, in fact, the one who orders killing and dismemberment of anyone in opposition to their extremist religious views, we should all break up with him.
But we probably won't. We still need some of their oil.
4
The US relationship with the Saudis needs to be reconsidered. The Trumps and Kushner are too excited about real estate opportunities in the Middle East to act in the long term US interest. But the next Administration will probably reassess the costs and the benefits of an alliance with the Saudis without the influence of personal gain, leading to less engagement and more scrutiny.
The Congress, in unanimously opposing our role in Yemen, is signaling the future
.
222
@Look Ahead
"The Congress, in unanimously opposing our role in Yemen, is signaling the future."
Yes, but only our support for the war. The alliance with Riyadh will continue.
5
@Look Ahead "But the next Administration will probably reassess the costs and the benefits of an alliance with the Saudis without the influence of personal gain, leading to less engagement and more scrutiny."
Are you sure? This relationship has been going on for a while, despite all of their human rights abuses.
Voters must demand change at the polls, and protest if the demands are not met.
Americans, Democrats, Republicans have all been passively enjoying the oil money from Saudi Arabia despite their criminal and morally outrageous behaviour in the world and against their own citizens.
11
@Ravi Gupta I don't think that the US imports any Saudi oil now. Trump's partiality to Saudi Arabia is based on their purchase of American war materiel, their willingness to permit the US to use Saudi air ports for military transit, Saudi active hostility to Iran, which appeals to rightwing American supporters of Israeli prime minister Netanyahu and, of course, Trump's and Kushner's desire to engage in personal business in Saudi Arabia.
7
None of this is surprising to those us who have observed the relentless tactics of the Saudi regime for so many years.
They are part of the governing style that many other authoritarian leaders partake in around the world.
Watching the U.S. bend and conform to this form of government on the international stage, starting with Donald Trump, man it hurts.
344
Right onto Impeachment
30
@Umar: No, this 'bending and conforming' to Saudi Arabia and other islamic theocracies did not start with trump. But trump should end it. We shouldn't be doing business with regimes which have a long history of human rights violations. And that includes all islamic theocracies.
12
@Umar Have you considered that Trump and others are severely compromised in their quid pro quos with SA? You don't negotiate with international crime syndicates.
16
Criminal wars, cluster bombs,torture, murder, dismemberment, detention, reporters imprisoned and killed...that's our kind of guy.
And that is one big reason this country needs to make some big changes.
3
Mr. Trump implicitly endorses the behavior of MBS and his regime towards dissidents. He probably envies the prince's ability to shut down critics through jailing, torture, and even killing. Consider his reaction to criticism he receives here. Be concerned that if he were able to get away with more than tweeting invectives against his critics, it is very probable that he would elevate his reprisals.
7
@zzzmm
This is why the man sleeps alone.
2
Let's have a look at the tenants of Trump and Kushner properties.
13
"A spokesman for the Saudi Embassy in Washington said the kingdom “takes any allegations of ill treatment of defendants awaiting trial or prisoners serving their sentences very seriously.”"
Such lies flow freely from the Saudi Prince MBS and his minions. He is nothing more than a common criminal in the eyes of international justice...whatever that is anymore. It is probably too much to ask of our government to cut all ties with him...follow the money, you know.
18
@Etienne
And the "Emoluments Clause" of the Constitution says we MUST 'follow the money'.
2
I'm sure our president believes the team carrying out this campaign include some very fine people.
20
But Trump and Kushner have good relations with this guy and they spend lots of money in the U.S. Doesn't that count for anything. Prine MBS is a friend of Donald and Jared. Surely we can overlook his intemperate behavior toward Saudi citizens for the sake of good relations with Saudi Arabia.
4
@RLW They also spend lots of money at Trump hotels.
3
I don't mean to be flip, but it's a little bemusing to hear all of the voices of outrage here (and I am outraged as well) - essentially saying, now THIS proves that our relationship and complicity with Saudi Arabia is now ineluctably immoral!
It has been so since the dawn of time - as have been and will continue to be our relationships with every other repellent regime that can provide us access to something geo-strategically or economically advantageous.
Decade after decade, our elected leaders have offered up to the electorate the most feeble and embarrassingly sophomoric explanations for our self-serving and morality-free "partnerships".
The only real question should be why, decade after decade, these explanations seem to be enough to allow them to continue. Could it be that at the end of the day, we value our cheap fuel, cheap consumables, and global hegemony more than we value what is morally right? Will we put our votes where our outrage is?
12
@Clayton
Thanks for one of the most sensible comments here today.
1
Did our Administration (trump and Kushner) use their friendship with MBS as a kind of mentorship program for architecting ways to deal with journalist? I ask because the Tweets against SNL sound threatening as well as those against journalist as a whole. Security for journalist needs to be increased in case this Administration gleamed any ideas from their good friend MBS.
6
Support for Saudi Arabia has been bi-partisan among US presidents. But islamic theocracies rely on the kinds of human rights violations described in this article to hold their regimes together. Countries which use these tactics should not be include as our allies.
9
Trump is hardly the man who cares for justice, nor will he ever condemn a brutal Saudi Prince, a promising future source of lucrative business . Scarcely what will benefit this country.
4
But Trump is more incensed about Judge Jeanine.
17
And John McCain.
2
My friend Amr al Dabbagh, a Saudi businessman, was rounded up with others in the Ritz and very recently released. I understand he was tortured. MBS is being enabled by the Trump White House. I pray MBS will be brought down and all these people he's hurt given restitution.
7
It is MbS the way we all know him here in the kingdom.
But for the West he is the guy that "allowed women to drive".
And the US fell for him, even before Trump.
Saudi Arabia is by far the major source of terrorism in the region, way ahead of all the other bad guys on the block like Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran.
The kingdom has the power, the will and the money to fund global terrorism and they do.
MbS is only the tip of the iceberg.
26
Why are our knickers getting in such a knot? America has a long history of cozying up to, aiding and abetting vicious dictators all of stripes and nationalities. We have never shrunk from doing so when "national security" (code for: corporate interests - whether oil, weapons, fruit, and on and on) are at stake. Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Cuba, Hawaii, China, Guam, Phillipines, El Salvador, Mexico, Domincan Republic, Costa Rica, Nicaraugua, Guatemala, Panema, and more.
Let's face it: America First isn't really new. We put varying degrees of veneer related to "collaboration", "world order", and "rule of law" with our Allies, but at the end of the day, we go for it and take what we want and support others who do the same (while decrying Russian and China when they do it). And I get it - our Allies do it/have done it too. But they don't tend to hold the "Shining City on a Hill" over everyone else's head.
8
@sgoodwin
This is in direct contrast to exactly which other large countries on the planet? Take your time....
The U.S. has interfered in the affairs of other states and it’s world order since WWII, while it has prevented big wars, has done so to promote trade and international development mostly as the private sector guides it. There has been relatively greater peace than before and the level of violence in human life has diminished overall. The focus upon the failings of U.S. policies and conduct is fair but not to obscure the intentions of belligerent and disruptive countries who think that they can find a way to get ahead in a violent and chaotic world, especially Russia. Right now, most efforts to denigrate the motives of the U.S. is by people who think that just tearing down the old order will release nothing but good instead of chaos or people who are pushing for the kind of world order that led to the World Wars.
5
A dream for Donald Trump. These leaders don't bother about justice. They killed their enemies.
9
We really do appreciate this article on activities of Saudi leadership. The Houthi of Yemen, who are supported by others in the region, say they will soon send rockets at the Saudis. All of what is coming could effect the supply and price of oil.
How long before this "prince" turns on America? Economic sanctions need to be imposed on Saudi Arabia. There is no place in the world for this type of regime and the world should boycott the kingdom until MBS is punished for his crimes and removed from power.
4
Three days ago, Trump threatened his political opponents with violence from the military, police, and bikers. Trump has a history of encouraging political violence in his followers, including imitating a body slam of a journalist, by a politician that Trump called "my guy" for this assault.
In respond to the mass terror attack in New Zealand, Trump says that white supremacy is not a problem, even as the acceleration of white supremacist attacks is large in the data.
Trump regularly encourages political violence, admires world leaders that terrorize their own people, retweets the memes and conspiracy theories of white supremacists, attacks the protections against government violence in the Bill of Rights, takes the side of a foreign intelligence agency against our own foreign intelligence agencies, on Russia, and Saudi Arabia...
The wall is merely am excuse to test his emergency powers, because abuse of emergency powers is exactly how wanna be dictators suspend elections and their constitutions.
Michael Cohen said under oath that he is afraid Trump may not leave the the Oval Office peacefully. He agrees with what Office been saying for two years. Trump is a direct reader to our Constitution and or Republic. If the Republicans weren't completely corrupt, they would have I impeached him already.
There is no excuse to support a president that puts his own wealth and power abortive We the People, is blatantly defrauding the People, and who threatens political violence against Us.
11
@McGloin
There is no way that Trump will leave office peacefully. He declared the 2016 election fixed, even though he won it. Imagine his reaction to an election that he loses. In addition, the office of the president is probably the only thing keeping him from being charge with multiple crimes, let alone abuse of his Constitutional powers. He's not going to willingly subject himself to punishment for those crimes. Look for January 20, 2021 to be very traumatic day in the history of this country.
3
And yet he’s Trump’s friend and Kushner’s ally, and of course remains America’s favorite ally. He’s a prince, this ‘MBS,’ a rock star of a leader, a grand butcher and depressor of rights, bringing Saudi into the modern era—which for them appears to be the Middle Ages.
9
I bet Trump wishes he could act with such impunity.
8
On the proverbial eve of its offering, Saudi Arabia compromised its country's economic future, its standing around the world that it spent decades reengineering... for this one man's life? Only US intelligence services, deflecting from its own failures, could create such a convenient story. On the day that Michael Cohen testified before Congress about the alleged malfeasance of the President of the United States, Jared Kushner was in Saudi Arabia to scant coverage. Concurrent with these events, the Kushner organization announced it had acquired a certain set of holdings from a former US citizen, his financial crisis enhanced wealth safe in Ireland, joining the Kushner's to a powerful slate of hedge funds who collectively represent one big US landlord. In the midst of collapse, as banks and investment firms were on the verge of extinction, the taxpayer funded "bail out" covered an insurance company and select banks, creating this flow of valuable but depressed US real estate assets that has since allowed the financial industry to commoditize housing and effectively create Oligarchs of US real estate. Is it possible the murder of Mr. Khashoggi was not an assassination but rather a warning? A pay back? An attempt to silence more than mere dissidence. Besides Jeffrey Epstein, were others in the financial sector implicated in the Epstein case? Was diplomatic immunity an issue? Would Congress have Approved that generous Bailout if its recipients were implicated in sex trafficking?
1
Jared Kushner made the Saudi Crown Prince's brutal repression much easier.
Back in 2017, Kushner gave the Crown Prince a highly classified list from American Intelligence Agencies, of people perceived to be opponents of the Prince.
That made the crackdown by the Prince, a very efficient ruthless event.
In exchange for this list Kushner was rewarded by associates of the Prince, who facilitated the bailout of his Manhattan real estate debt.
"666 Fifth Avenue" - an appropriately named building.
23
& then there are war crimes in Yemen, execution of Nimr al-Nimr etc.
4
As long as America supports Saudi Arabia our claim to be some sort of moral beacon are utterly and laughably meaningless.
25
@Virgil T.
In a perfect world, diplomacy is dispensable. Let us all know where this perfect world of yours is.
America supports any Killer regime when there’s a buck to be made .
Same old Same old
13
Torturing women for driving cars should have been enough to break with the Saudis. Trump does not care about human rights. He pretends that the CIA does not have conclusive evidence as to MBS involvement in the journalist's murder. Same as he says white nationalists groups are small numbers of a fringe groups and not really a major concern around the globe. His own DOJ says otherwise.
7
History will long remember those who continue to support MBS. Those figures are forever tarnished, from Israel to the USA.
9
As long as Trump is in office there won't be any justice for Khashoggi. Too many business deals going on to punish the Saudis. We went to war to protect them from Iraq back in the early 90s. They ignored their massacre of those in Yemen. Maybe with a new President Crown Prince MBS will discover that he doesn't have a blank check.
5
Anytime you see the word torture attached to the leader of a country, in that country you will also find state sanctioned murder. And any country that uses murder to control the population, in that country freedom does not exist. Thank your lucky starts that you were born in a democracy in which your leaders are duly elected.
2
Were duly elected. Past tense and BTE (Before Trump Era). The dark ages return.
2
No meetings by Kushner or any member of the administration with Mr. Bone Saw until Americans jailed in Saudi are freed.
8
It's no wonder that Trump believes this guy, they have the same attitude toward their country men, which is why we have to keep an extra eye on Trump.
4
America now has sufficient oil production to offset what is imported from Saudi Arabia and thus can finally wean from Saudi Arabia completely. We have a unique opportunity (once in our lifetime) to crank up sanctions substantially. Jared and Donny, it is difficult for you to understand, but this is not just about a shiny Trump tower in Saudi Arabia; your friends are oppressive and diabolical and we must sanction them, call them out as this article does, and make absolutely sure that USA never provides them with nuke components.
5
This article is a clear representation of why a free press in the US is so important to our Democratic Republic & to the World.
16
All the support over the years that the US government has given to Saudi Arabia, both public and private, has ended up to be a bad investment. Congress! Cut the losses and disengage with this brutal regime. Start treating the Saudi elites to the sanctions that they deserve by giving them a prominent place on the No Fly List. Apply the same presure routinely doled out to every other brutal regime for bad behavior. Contrast how the US has sanctioned the tiny island of Cuba over the years with all that hand holding with the Saudis.
8
We don't need the Saudi's oil and we don't need the Saudi's "friendship". They have always been double dealing, providing financial support to Isis among other attacks on our interests.
Support for the Saudis only serves to dirty our hands by implicit support of the illegal and immoral activities of the Saudi state.
5
So this is how the People get information critical to their assessment of the performance of their leadership, through anonymous sources who have access to classified information. With this level of reporting being apparently the only access to a fuller appreciation of the facts, it is not to be wondered, the People get confused.
1
Tension between Trump and the CIA? This article would make you think that the relationship prior U.S. administrations have have had with Saudi Arabia was somehow vastly different from what currently exists. It is as if to say prior administrations were not actively working closely with Saudi Arabia, despite its regime's authoritarian tendencies. As per my usual comment, I dislike Trump immensely, but a lot of what he gets criticized for appears to be consistent with prior administrations' policies. He just seems to be far less sophisticated (and disliked by so many within and outside of the government) when communicating these things to the public.
3
"The C.I.A. assessment has created tension between American spy agencies and President Trump, who has made warm relations with the Saudis a cornerstone of his foreign policy."
I get the feeling that Donald Trump admires the freedom MBS has to put the entire country under his thumb, use torture on his enemies, and pretty much lock them up on false pretenses.
I'm not sure its only money keeping Trump entranced with Saudi totals who are little more than thugs.
in any event, that the president would so actively try to marginalize US intelligence officers trying to assess instability and chaos in an ally country is chilling in and of itself.
65
The monarch butchered the human because the human criticized the monarch, so of course trump and his supporters side with the monarch against the human.
29
Looking at the photo....where are the women ?
11
With "friends" like Saudi Arabia, who needs enemies?
22
It's disgusting and immoral that Trump and his team are so hypocritical in their condemnation and efforts to topple Maduro in Venezuela under the fabricated concern for the lives of Venezuelan citizens while continuing their support of the killings of innocents in Yemen by the Saudis and the murder of Khashoggi and others critical of the crown prince. Just as it was with our invasion of Iraq, it's all about the oil in Venezuela and all about selling weapons to SA. Anyone who still supports Trump is complicit in his evil.
39
Venezuela has substantial petroleum reserves and so has Saudi Arabia. Venezuela nationalized it’s oil industry and all other industrials while Saudi Arabia partners with private foreign businesses.
Nice friend you have there, Jared.
43
Our administration's coziness with the Saudi Kingdom has aggravated the entire region, perverting policies with Israel, Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc, undermining our relationship with our European allies… oh: European Allies?
12
The Saudis took down the World Trade Center. Iran didn't.
63
This is good reporting, hopefully honest, and it should shake the US government to the core as it plays buddies with these corrupt Saudi officials. Terrifying.
19
Thanks to Trump abd Kushner fir enabling, supporting and protecting MBS to carry out mass torture and mass murder around the world. This person is dangerous and God forbid if Saudis attain nukes.
Kushner, please seek therapy for the drive to accumilate wealth at any cost.
17
These killings have been going on for 1,400 years. World has been slow to acknowledge.
I appreciate the Times keeping on this important story but nearly every detail in the article has been previously reported.
If you want to disarm these brutal dictatorships then get us off oil.
Want to stop the US from going to war with Venezuela to steal their oil. Get off fossil fuel.
30
Saudi a reflexion of US value again, to repeat, we are the most toxic evil country on planet earth today. Very few can even consider this much less agree. All I can do is watch and post. Feeling helpless.
7
At least the Bush gang were smart enough to use the Carlyle Group. Now the corruption is out in plain sight and still no one really cares.
11
While I frown upon the cozy relationships of the Trumps with MBS and the Saudis, lets not forget that the main assistant of Hillary Clinton was a Saudi woman, that Obama, G.W. Bush, and Bill, G.H. Bush all had a cozy relationship with the Saudis. G.H.Bush carved out a Muslim county out of the former republic of Yugoslavia to make it a stand-alone Muslim country Kosova, where the Saudis exported their Whahabbism and created a Whabbism foothold in Europe where it had never existed one, in its over 3000 years of history.
4
Please get your facts straight. H. Clinton’s advisor lived at one point in Saudi Arabia, she is of Indian descent. Living and being from mean two very different things.
4
Hillary’s assistant was an American woman.
6
This brutal and degenerate family has long been kept in power by massive American military and political support- this is why 9/11 happened and not because of "American freedom".
15
With friends like this who needs enemies? Trump and the Princeling only care about two things in the middle was: their personal pay-off in terms of cheap financing from
Gulf financial institutions and property sales to the Gulf States money launderers,and whether or not Bibi Netanyahu its on board.
To determine the latter, Trump placed his bankruptcy lawyer and Jew from central casting as ambassador in our lonely embassy in Jerasulum and enjoys the advice of his son-in-law, a man who disdains history and approaches the region after a lifetime of "Zionist indoctrination.
1
Jared already has the architectural plans drawn for the most beautiful Trump Towers in downtown Riyaydh.
5
That Trump refuses to denounce this shows that he condones it.
7
Jared submitted a list of characters he thought MBS would find unsavory.Were any of his suggestions then "offed"?I remember Khashoggi made it onto jared's revolting list.Sounds like conspiracy to commit murder to me
10
Saudi oil is increasingly less important as Americans discover and rediscover petroleum exploitation technologies of our own. Freed from the export ban on petroleum, we are seeing the Permian Basin boom of Texas and will doubtless see many other such greed-spawned initiatives before it's all over. The desert demons of Arabia are merely showing their desperation to a world that doesn't reify their absurd Wahhabist beliefs, including the one that Allah cannot see Bahrain, so that, like Vegas, whatever happens there...
1
Thank you to all the journalists who keep the pressure on this corrupt regime and courageously seek out the truth about MBS and his web of thuggery.
20
The GOP’s silence on this, as well as the daily ridiculous revelations from this corrupt and inept administration, is absolutely mind boggling. Surely they will pay for this. One can only hope. But I keep coming back to the same question: Is the entire Republican Party compromised by Russia?? How anyone can look at the state of our country and say “This is totally normal. Everything is great!” is beyond me (side eye to you Fox News). When will this all end?
15
I don’t disagree with your larger point but didn’t the Senate Repubs vote to end funding for the Yemen war? There are glimmers of awareness that this is a toxic relationship in the halls of Congress and not just in the House.
Maybe I haven't payed enough attention, but have any of the Democratic 2020 candidates stated that we would sanction Saudi Arabia, or just walk away from our relationship with them? Or do the candidates by their silence concede that it is one we must maintain?
4
I don't remember reading about elections in Saudi Arabia. I don't remember reading that there was a constitution indicating how a leader should be elected. I am looking at the countries around and certainly Iran had an election. Was it free and open? Did anyone who differed too much from the leadership end up in prison? How about Turkey and its elections? Same question. Same answer. Only Israel, that country that has been targeted by the UN and by the BDS people because of its inhumane treatment of those it allegedly colonized actually has a democratic system, actually lets its Arab citizens, its women, its citizens of any religion vote. So, how do you think someone takes power when there isn't a specific system of elections protected by a constitution that is upheld? Ever hear of the War of Roses in England? The brutality of others who take and consolidate power is well documented in history books. I suspect that if someone looked closely at Turkey, Syria, Iran and other area countries' treatment of those who dissent from the government, it wouldn't be pleasant. MBS isn't the pure, gentle, good reformer he was portrayed to be in the news. However, he is limiting the religious forces and bringing some reforms to a very closed society. For that he should be applauded. Would there be another leader who would do the same without having to consolidate power in a cruel manner in that country? If so, who? And, how would that person take the government?
3
A Saudi student studying English in the United States of America, told me that the Saudi government pays all school expenses, including lodging and food. On top of everything a yearly stipend of 120K. Also mentioned that every student or person of Saudi origin is considered an ambassador from The KSA. I have witnessed some of these student living large engaging in carnal pleasures, including drug use and alcohol. These students going back and forth between the United States of America and the KSA, never seen any of them “disappearing” as this report claims.
3
They may indulge in ”carnal pleasures” while here but they’re not criticizing the regime, are they?
2
@RBR
If your government paid all you’re college costs plus gave you 120k spending money - wouldn’t u be inclined to follow your government rules? Basically the Saudi government buys the students’ silence.
That this man could be called the friend and ally of a leader of a society of free men and women beggars belief: and make me weep.
9
The chickens have, unfortunately, come home to roost. Since Dick Cheney, W et al supported the extraordinary rendition program, in which the US kidnapped, detained and tortured foreign nationals at black sites, the US has zero moral standing to criticize even these grotesque abuses of human rights. The current head of the CIA, approved for her position with the support of some Democratic senators, ran a black site in Thailand and oversaw the torture of kidnapped foreign nationals. She destroyed the tapes of the torture sessions so we can't look at the prisoners screaming as they were waterboarded. What is most unfortunate about this story is not how different the US is from Saudi Arabia, it is how much--at least when it comes to kidnapping, torturing, jailing political opponents--the two countries are. If the US is actually different, a good way to prove it to the world would be to force Gina Haspel out at CIA and overwhelmingly reject Trump and his political allies in the 2020 election.
12
"The kingdom says that 11 Saudis are facing criminal charges for the killing and that prosecutors are seeking the death penalty for five of them, but officials have not publicly identified the accused."
These people actually believe they are "very smart". In reality they are so dense that even a child has no problem seeing through them.
The Saudi regime is not publicly identifying the killers because their family and close friends know who has been giving killing orders and, if they live outside the country, they may go public. Keeping the names secret also allows the regime to execute five individuals who are already on death row and then declare them as Jamal Khashoggi's killers receiving death sentences.
3
Kudos to the NYT for pursuing the story of Crown Prince Mohammed's murder of Mr. Khashoggi. Messrs. Trump and Kushner were hoping this story would just fade away. They will not be pleased.
9
And we have to hear the continued nonsense from Donald and his defenders that he doesn’t condone violence. Sure he does. This is still more proof.
And remind us GOP, why does Jared need a security clearance? Why does he need to have off the record conversations and meetings with MBS? Is MBS to aired as Putin is to Donald?
4
It wasn't long ago nor far away from Saudi Arabia that the US went to war to destroy another Middle Eastern tyrant who used state brutality to eliminate internal dissent.
That man was Saddam Hussein.
So now it's just fine with the Trumputinkushner gang to look the other way?
3
Very likely aided and abetted by Kushner's and his security clearance. In exchange for what exactly...? Follow the money. Congress needs to put their full weight behind getting to the bottom of this corruption and criminality.
3
Don't believe that Kushner would not do the same at home if he could. Believe what Trump and his group tell us everyday. Stop seeing what you want to see, see what is there.
3
Mr. Bone Saw's death squad. It is equally tragic if the there were intercepts about the threat into Mr. Khashgi's life and he was not informed.
4
Would the accused actually be convicted in Saudi Arabia, or would it just be made to appear so? It makes one wonder about the scope of the lies this country creates, and the United State's motive for supporting said country's 'alternative facts'.
1
I wonder how Jared and Ivanka sleep at night. Is the money and the power worth it? I know Donald has no soul, and I suppose we have to assume none of the rest of them do either.
6
MBS is by no means better than Bashar Al Assad, he is much worse. And yet we waged a covert CIA effort to overthrow Assad, and then an open one, and the Saudis continue to be our best friends... One can only surmise that Bashar had to be toppled not for humanitarian reasons but before he did not pay proper tribute to the US.
2
Reliable sources report that an instrument that greatly aids them is the Pegasus spyware that spies on phone, and emal messages, and so forth, gathering information on targetted individuals abroad.
1
How is it that a property owned by a subsidiary of Marriott International, ends up as a sort of luxury prison? I'm having a hard time imagining how the entire staff goes along with such abuses. I hope it was worth the money.
2
MBS, while being a close ally of Trump’s, appears to be unfazed by Trump’s treatment of Muslims and Trump’s negative views of Islam and Muslims. It is all about power to MBS (and to DWT). At some point won’t this cause problems with the Saudi clerics?
2
Middle east is broken beyond repair - and the West has played the key role in making this happen, going on for decades. At this point - its a bit too late and a bit too rich to shed tears, some may say crocodile tears, about lack of basic rights and functioning civil society in the those benighted lands - full of brutes of various kinds and degrees stalking and killing with abandon.
So now - what are we supposed to do about Prince Salman the Brute? Not much really, given that he is our legacy, his wealth is our wealth, he is us and we are him.
Real Question is - How did we get here? Should do we continue to pretend as keeper of rights and civility - or should be finally confront the reality of who we really are?
1
After 9/11 one would think we’d have considered our relationship with these folks. But somehow we got caught in a frenzied and misguided effort to bring democracy to Iraq.
3
Should we be surprised that strongmen and despots all over the world feel like they have a license to do whatever they need to when our own President advocates torture, talks about use of force if things don’t go his way and generally bonds well with rogue leaders all over the world. So let’s not stand on some moral high ground judging others when we have serious clean up to do in our own front and backyard.
3
I’m praying for Jared. I hope his Brookfield loans are in good shape. As long as prince Kushner is well financed, and the trump family properties are filled with Saudi billionaires we can all rest easy. Let’s keep the rich getting richer as America becomes greater.
4
Saudi Arabia is a long term ally of the U.S. and there are no indications that King Salman had any involvement in this affair. Concerns are with the behavior of Crown Prince bin Salman.
Congress needs to assert its position on this matter forcefully. Congress has no rights or responsibility regarding the Saudi justice system. The Saudis must solve their own problems. Congress has responsibility for oversight over U.S. foreign relations. Advisor Jared Kushner's role and his close contact with the Crown Prince raises many questions. Congress has the authority to demand that Kushner stop all contacts with Saudi Arabia particularly in view of past financial dealings with people from Saudi Arabia.
2
Those leaders who are truly interested in serving people rather than themselves, are not afraid of dissent, or even criticism, as they engage those they are leading, communicate, and are even open to change. However, if you really believe that you as the head of a country are the only one who should make all the decisions, then out of fear, they often become so brazen as to lose all sense of morality, and don't care who, or what they do to punish those who might threaten their power, and usually money that goes along with it.
3
One would think that he events of September 11, 2001 alone would be enough for the US to have rethought its policies with respect to the Middle East in general and with Saudi Arabia more specifically. Instead, we doubled down.
The current state of affairs was predictable, perhaps even inevitable.
3
My concern is that America and other countries make allegiance with Saudi Arabia for the oil, and are willing to overlook human rights abuses, such as the suppression of dissenting voices and the inequality between men and women. The economic value of a relationship between countries should ideally be weighted on the same level as the social value or lack thereof.
2
"Members of the team that killed Mr. Khashoggi, which American officials called the Saudi Rapid Intervention Group, were involved in at least a dozen operations starting in 2017, the officials said."
The "Saudi Rapid Intervention Group" appears to be a typical US military designation, which raises the question whether the US military or CIA has been involved in training that group. If so, that is not the first time the US has engaged in training such a group for a close ally.
19
What kind of Empire are we running here?
The real question is who at CIA or US Embassy in Raidh, approved this operation, or are you saying MBS is off the reservation, and therefore will shortly die in a car accident?
20
@Citizen888
".... are you saying MBS is off the reservation, and therefore will shortly die in a car accident?"
Not as long as he is submissively following Mr. Trump's orders to change Saudi oil production levels to keep the oil price low. Or, not as long as Mr. Trump has not found another Saudi prince who will be willing to do the same, but without the MBS luggage!
1
I just can’t believe that the Saudi Monarchy could be responsible for something like this. With such a good track record of human rights, this seems so unlike them in every way. I’m totally floored?
Just kidding; could anybody be surprised to learn this?
32
Where are the critical speeches and biting, snide tweets from Congresswoman Omar and her co-first-ever Muslim Congresswoman regarding the Saud regime?
13
@Avoter: Where is your president and his son-in-law?
48
You mean trumPutin and back-channel Kushner?
Not who I chose.
29
President Trump and Jared are busy making business deals with the Saudis.
4
"One of the Saudis detained by the group, a university lecturer in linguistics who wrote a blog about women in Saudi Arabia, tried to kill herself last year after being subjected to psychological torture, according to American intelligence reports and others briefed on her situation.”
Our relationship with Saudi Arabia is in many ways so insanely unfortunate, and so complex, it’s a shame our foreign policy czar has both little experience AND an apparent interest in seeing Saudi Arabian investments in his family’s real estate ventures. It’s also a shame that his mentor expresses favor for regimes that use assassination and human rights abuses as tools.
32
A ‘ businessman’ as leader of or nation?
How much is each life worth? 1 jet, 3 missiles?
What a farce
18
What utterly brutal depravity of violence must the Saudi 'royal' crime family torture the innocent and decent with before the NYT acknowledges there aren't 'two sides' to torture and abuse?
5
They did that months ago. You simply insisted on clouding the issue, for reasons that likely do not bear inspection.
Did Khashoggi know this? Is this why he told his wife to call if he didn't return? Had he tipped off the Turks to point their recording devices at the right place and time?
He was a superhero.
19
How does one "force" Trump to confront things he doesn't believe in? Each day he remains in office, the more time is wasted.
Tick, Tock...
11
@FritzTOF
Huh? You want to force him into acknowledging a murder that he played a part in? Why would he ever do that? I'm confused...
6
Trump knows all this and so would his son-in-law because they have access to top secret intel so what gives with this cosy suckup relationship with the Saudis and this prince. I put my money on future business dealings with the Saudis when out office (maybe even current business dealings). Trump and his family are in this for self enrichment. Shameful.
24
It is not just money — but it’s Middle East Machiavellian politics.. If it was just money then Adelson would not pour hundred of millions of dollars into this - he is Trumps largest donor and one of Netanyahu’s biggest supporters - spending and floating the largest newspaper in Israel to trump up Netanyahu
What kind of people are these Repub members of congress who are wiling to support a man who professes being "in love" with a gulag master, who supports a war targeting civilians and children in Yemen– bombing children! Who defends the murderer of an American journalist, who foments racist violence and villifies the free press?
I don't understand the willingness to sell one's soul, honor and integrity for the temporary political benefit of promoting Republican judges or relaxing environmental rules. The harm to the country and themselves is lasting. The political gain, fleeting.
Do these old men (mostly old men) need money that badly? To sell one's honor and the honor of one's country's to retain the title of "senator" or "congressman?" Is it a 1930's calculus that brutality is OK if one can keep the trains running on time?
Happily, I do not understand what status, power or money motivates these sorry specimens. They will be remembered as villains. I would cross the street to avoid them.
44
I see this as the legacy of American official sponsored torture practices and the dark age of the madness that took the country.
And do not think this is limited to one country such as Saudi Arabia. This empowerment of military state sponsored violence, nationalism and xenophobia has been legitimized in the eyes of the very human people in positions of power.
And they now explore everywhere just as far as they can go with the modern tools of oppression they have at their disposal.
Only with a firm reaffirmation of human rights by the western nations where part of the democratic ideal is still alive can we begin to slow the tide of political violence.
Before the world just burns either when the latent tension of Muslim hate and Islamic extremism finally comes to a flashpoint state, or the Orwellian state China is building that is already taking hold in South East Asia just wiped away all individual rights to freedom and privacy.
8
Why is this even surprising? The absolute corruptness of the Saudi family versus the Trump family? Win-win.
6
So he had blood on his hands and got caught before he managed to wash up. But what about countless other leaders, their secret agents, and minions who routinely carry out murders, launder money and are deeply involved in transnational corporate crimes à la the #PanamaPapers? Do we forget about them simply because they wear the Ring of Gyges, which renders them invisible?
If the various investigations into Trump tell us anything, it is that the veneer of legitimacy that cloaks party machines and governments even in long-standing democracies is actually quite fragile and can be exposed. But for that, as Machiavelli pointed out long ago, the people must be vigilant and not be corrupted.
7
And who sold him the weapons to do this?
Obama, the nobel prize winner
@AutumnLeaf
The bone saws?
6
Yes. Obama owns a bone saw franchise located in Tampa Florida. Right next to his birth certificate forging factory.
19
And who honored him with his very first international trip as President?
Trump, the immoral.
And who buddied-up to his family's regime for profit?
The George Bushes, the war-starters.
Your point is?
12
Thank you for your reporting. I hope this stays in the news and is not swallowed up by nonsense.
Harry Caudill, in his 1962 Night Comes to the Cumberlands, wrote: "Congress has given support to 'anti -Communist' governments around the world.. have voted vast slush funds for Saudi Arabia, an absolute monarchy and one of the few lands were human slavery is still legal.. the question may be fairly asked, 'If we can afford to subsidize autocratic medieval kings, a communist dictator who's expressed ideology is a detestation of our liberties, can we fail to spare the funds required to convert an island of destitution (Appalachia) within our own country into a working self-sustaining partner in the nation's freedom and progress?"
How much has changed since then?
9
Prince Mohammed is Joseph Stalin in the age of the internet.
10
You have to keep on good terms with a nation that has a history of offering a comfortable exile.
They did take in Idi Amin, so why not the Trump's?
If he loses in November 2020 , could he offer to resign and leave, never to return, to avoid prison?
7
Khashoggi murder by Salmon needs justice. Why it hasn't happened is a sad reality of today's world.
After his murder the Putin and Salman high-five at G20 summit, another disgusting moment in time.
11
Rapid Intervention Group has to be a name decided on by someone with a medical background. Like the Rapid Response Teams in most hospitals nowadays.
1
Now what, Mr. Kushner?
6
Banishing Saudi Arabia from the world of nations would be the appropriate remedy.
I guess that really means "ditch the Saudis" (the ruling family -- possibly a fairly high number given their marital and reproductive practices).
It wouldn't be the first government in the area under international mandate.
I'm someone who in far yesteryear was a world federalist and an editorial intern my pre-college summer at the short-lived United Nations World magazine.
If the
"Some of the operations involved forcibly repatriating Saudis from other Arab countries and detaining and abusing prisoners in palaces belonging to the crown prince..." [Let's not gloss over this part:] "...and his father, King Salman."
The imprisonment, torture, and murder of opponents, dissidents and perceived enemies of the Saudi royal family did not begin with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.
And, as many have asked, why is the United States steadfast allies with such a corrupt government? I believe firmly that both men and nations can be judged fairly by the friends they keep.
5
After 9/11, we should have closed all Saudi ports and bombed all the Saudi oil refineries....instead of whatever it was the US did there....
10
And we helped. Especially Jared. Blood on our hands.
8
@db2
Lotsa blood on "trump's" hands for instigating it.
3
I’d much prefer to be opening a relationship with Iran, admittedly a tough theocracy, but still possessing an educated middle class that historically is predisposed to the fundamentals of an open western capitalistic culture, than deal with a monarchy headed by a murderous thug who happens to finance our defense industry and probably much of the Trump branding and real estate syndicate as well.
19
The term "Saudi Human Rights Commission" is ironically oxymoronic. Does one of the last, and definitely the worse, of the world's remaining absolute monarchies think they are fooling anybody?
5
We should have declared war on Saudi Arabia on Sept. 12, 2001. Instead, we became their accomplices and all of our presidents and houses of Congress since then are guilty as sin.
16
The Saudis are obviously murderers and the entire world knows it, so why are they afraid to just say "yes we did it, what are you going to do about it?"
Why keep acting like some great charitable country. Just admit you murder or jail dissenters, finance terrorists and don't care what anyone thinks.
7
@Mr Peabody
"trump" did it for the Saudis. Re-think your pre-2016 notions of "charitable country". That's long since passed.
1
The Saudi government, to be distinguished from its citizens, is to be trusted about as much as a thinking person would trust our president to tell the truth. Not at all.
10
Why do we curry favor with these medieval brutes? We don't need their oil. We have other allies in the region to ensure free passage through the Straight of Hormuz. We have blood on our hands from their indiscriminate bombings in Yemen. We can handle Iran ourselves, along with other allies in the region.
4
@charlie corcoran
"We" don't. "trump" does.
Why is this confusing to people?
4
Add MBS to Trump's other friends who have total disregard for human rights....Duterte, Edrogan, Putin, Kim....and you have quite a cast of characters. He likes all these strong men and takes them all at their word when they deny a whole host of atrocious deeds. This is who sits in the White House. It still never ceases to amaze me.
14
Remember all this come November 2020. We have a chance to end this absolutely wrong relationship we have with this barbaric kingdom. It is clear it will not change under this current "administration".
21
Jared and his father-in-law don't mind.
The money is in the bank.
21
Another reason to revoke Jared’s security clearance and get him out of the decision making being done in the Middle East on behalf of this country.
5
These are barbarians who just happen to often wear expensive garb, drive luxury cars and flaunt other trappings of exclusive, rich civilized life.
What a sham that the Saudis have Mecca and other critical Muslim holy places.
Personally, I have serious ethical concerns about people worldwide who give business to any of the airlines from the Gulf nations, where repression remains so widespread.
15
And this is a great big surprise to whom?
15
Strange that Turkey is holding a symbolic funeral and the two countries that he has citizenship show no humanity.
9
This is horrifying. It is time for the United States to end diplomatic ties with the Royal Crown Wizard.
23
@Brewster Millions
Republicans just read this and laughed.
4
Will Saudi "officials" seek the death penalty for the one, at the top, who authorized and gained the most from the killing of Khashoggi? The one who's voice was the only one the team leader would, under all circumstances, do anything to please?
I'm betting No.
And our so called president and his son in law call him "a good friend".
10
Let's revisit another Sunni leader in the Mid-East that consolidated power throughout the government, had a secret army that killed dissidents all over the world and finally was fortified by the West- because we wanted him to take on Iran.
Oh yeah, Saddam Hussein. How did that turn out?
10
For years, North American and European PR firms gobbled at the trough of bottomless Saudi Arabian contracts, providing “reputation management” and controlled narratives about the Saudi royal ruling class. The National Enquirer even stuck glossy mags with MBS’ headshot in US supermarket checkout lines.
The Saudis’ reputations are now beyond repair, and the controlled narrative has gone AWOL. It’s all just a giant pile of gilded manure at this point.
I’m very curious to know how those PR firms are now undoubtedly pitching to mend the un-mendable.
15
Angela Stent’s just released “Putin’s World” notes the close association between Putin, Netanyahu and crown prince Mohamed bin Salman as Middle East regional architects. Turkey’s Erdogan forms part of the quartet, but he’s proven unreliable and has quarreled with this bunch. Each with its own agenda, all corrupt, undesirable human beings. Then, there’s Putin’s relationship with Trump who has given cover and excuse to all assassinations.
11
I would be surprised if they ever find the body. Bodies are evidence. There have been actual cases where murder victims were placed if a bath tube of acid or lye and run down the municipal sewer.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2009/12/how-long-does-it-take-to-dissolve-a-human-body.html
@JSH
More on this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_conviction_without_a_body
Murder convictions without a body are difficult. If the CIA has convincing recordings of his death and are keeping evidence under wraps, would they be complicit?
The victim was legally entitled to protection under US law and the crime occurred on Turkish soil. It seems inconsistent to allow prosecution in Saudi Arabia. Is there any push for the CIA to provide the evidence to an international court, with the prosecution representing the US and Turkey?
This column is utterly horrifying.
9
The fact that America is in bed with this barbaric regime is an abomination. Kushner and MBS apparently text on WhatsApp while dissidents are dismembered with a bone saw? What planet are we on that this is ok? Congress must act and impose sanctions. They are a terrorist regime.
33
Have to assume that Jared Kushner knew all about this, given how buddy-buddy he has been with MSB.
How long will the Trump White House or family continue to protect him, let alone let him retain his security clearance? When his views and behaviors are so antithetical to American moral ideas?
And, please, can anybody clarify what Ivanka knew about all this and when she knew it? What if she knew about MSB death squads 2 years ago when her father was calling for somebody to kill Hillary Clinton. Maybe that was a killing too far even for MSB or the Kushners??!!
14
MBS is a murderous thug, the kind of criminal the President of the United States of America is utterly besotted with, like a child. Really, like a child.
17
Did MBS get intel about "enemies" from the US consulting firm, McKinsey?
7
Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. The Saudi’s are so utterly corrupt that they have to resort to these despicable acts.
6
It is only a matter of time before the people of Saudi Arabia are going to overthrow the monarchy just as the Shah was overthrown in Iran. Then what will be America's foreign policy towards our 911 attackers?
11
Saudi autocracy has been highly repressive even before the advent of MBS .American media ,however,mostly ignored the whole thing because the country was a crucial ally of the U.S in the region.
5
This story misses the Shakespearean depth of this psychotic tale. It revolves around the weakness of kings and their need to know what their subjects are saying about them.
Mohammad bin Salman petitioned Jared Kushner for support in obtaining the latest in proprietary technology that facilitates the monitoring of iPhone sms and text messages as well as conversations at a distance. This software was obtained with Kushner's help and support for MBS via an Israeli software firm and cell phone company under contracts to our intelligence services. It required chief executive intervention.
Remember the love fest with the glowing globes? MBS floated 666 and Jared, and got his magic mind reader.
But, when MBS got his insight into what his subjects were saying about him, it drove him around the bend with fury.
The take out crew was sent to Turkey to bring back the pieces of Jamal Khashoggi, and make no mistake, it was no mistake. They brought bone saws. Come on!
29
Thank you NYT for this article and for not giving up on getting to the truth about what happened to Khashoggi and the problems with MBS’s regime.
As a citizen of the US, I am concerned about the $40 billion private US infrastructure deals that were made with MBS (Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund- PIF) and Kushner/Trump with Blackstone Inc, Stephen Schwarzman, during the first international trip made by Trump after his election.
Trumps Head of business council and friend, Stephen Schwarzman signed a $40B contract with PIF that has not been transparent or available to view.
Schwarzman is on the board of the Russian Direct Investment Fund
https://rdif.ru/Eng_fullNews/53/
And also on the Saudi Arabia advisory committee for the PIF
https://english.alarabiya.net/en/business/economy/2018/08/30/PIF-announces-Future-Investment-Initiative-2018-advisory-panel.html
Most of the websites showing these connections have been deleted.
18
Let's see . . . North Korea's Kim Il Sun kills thousands, Saudi Arabia's MBS kills thousands, the Philippines Rodrigo Duterte kills thousands, Russia's V Putin arranges the murders and assassinations of thousands . . .
These are the characters Trump admires. No wonder we have lost standing in the world. It's a repugnant lineup of autocratic murderers and what does Trump say about them? Nothing, because he's preoccupied with attacking John McCain.
Tell me whether this isn't sufficient evidence to conclude that Trump is unfit for the Office of President.
19
Well, it matches pretty well what America did and do - killing thousands.
1
Not surprised at all. In a country where oppression is rampant and the government and/or the monarch rules without check and balance, they can do whatever they want to their own citizens. I mean, look what they all are doing to their own women. Tell me what good the Syariah law brings. Nothing.
6
Are they actually going to execute people for killing Khashoggi? And then that is supposed to show they are serious and we in the West are supposed to nod and be grateful? Are they that clueless as to our sensibilities? Such executions would greatly compound the situation. What a nightmare regime.
8
Michael Moore was right (Fahrenheit 911)
9
Crown prince Salman is despicable and highly insecure, unable to tolerate a healthy dose of constructive criticism, hence, torturing his own folks for wanting to improve things. This, in addition to Salman's assassasination of Mr. Khashoggi, for which Trump and Pompeo and Jared seem unfazed, shameful and suspicious of graft on this side of the Atlantic. And not a 'peep' from the U.S. about the trampling of human rights in Saudi Arabia? How can the Saudis be considered Allies, with such an abuse of power, just because of their oil? It smells rotten!
12
Let's clarify something. Khashoggi was dismembered alive first, and died in the process of being chopped up. It was an obviously agonizing death, aka torture. The article makes it sound like he was first killed, then dismembered.
17
Perhaps another look at the death of journalist Danny Castillaro and the BCCI scandal might uncover a much older historical precedent and reveil who he was referring to with the label "the octopus".
2
Another blow to the fantasy that we are somehow a beacon of justice, fairness, goodness and freedom.
And folks, it is not just Trump.
6
When Trump and Kushner buddy up to people like bin Salman (and Putin) don't they realize that these kind of amoral men are just as likely to turn against them as they have turned against their own people and own families?
There is no honor among despots like bin Salman, Putin, and Kim Jong-un. If Trump trusts them, as he says he does, he is either a fool or one of them.
20
The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is a medieval crime syndicate. Its royal family sees women who exercise their simple human rights (e.g., driving) as a threat to national security. What a bunch of coward and shameless men!
What is most shameful is that we have a president who sees this criminal regime as an ally and covers up its crimes by accepting its dozen different explanations (lies), as was the case with the Khashoggi murder. No wonder that no one respects us around the world, or takes us seriously when we lecture at them about democracy, human rights, justice, etc.
22
On second thought, they can have Jared.
15
Do any NYT readers believe the president would do the same if possible?
9
I am disgusted that this Crown Prince is the "best friend" of Jared Kushner, who works in the White House and has a security clearance despite recommendations from intelligence experts that he not receive one. It's obvious that Trump does not value human rights, but at long last, I believe that most Americans will not accept Trump's flattery and coddling of the most heinous of dictators and autocrats.
17
It seems we are moving into an era where the worst people become the leaders of countries. Unfortunately, the behavior at the top of any organization influences the behavior all the way down the line.
5
Well, the history of KSA or for that matter the countries in the Middle East, has not been one of honoring human rights since the seventh century. Many Khashoggi’s fought and always lost these dastardly rulers over the centuries, even in modern days.
One may want to quickly search for a British docudrama titled “The Death of a Prince,” a sad story of the public beheading of a royal woman for falling in love with a commoner from Lebanon. Khalid bin Abdulaziz Al Saud was the ruler of KSA at that time. The genes of MBS has not been all that innocent.
The movie portrayed the public beheading with graphic details. The offended KSA applied pressure on the West to prevent screening this film. The British ambassador to Riyadh was sent home along with many British businessmen. The British supersonic Concord flights between London and Singapore were banned from KSA airspace making that commercial route uneconomical to run.
On May 8, 1980 New York Times succumbed to the pressure and accepted an advertisement from KSA proxy, the Mobil Oil, condemning The Death of a Prince as a mere fairy tale. So, American media has always capitulated to oil money in the past- the new holier than thou posture in the Khashoggi matter is disingenuous.
Public beheadings continue in KSA. Honor killings and revenge killings are common in countries from Pakistan to Morocco. Life is like that over there. Nothing new.
8
There is much dishonor in so-called "honor killings".
You describe some brutal repressive societies.
As reported the Saudi's and in particular the butcher Mohammed bin Salman has been a close ally of Jared Kushner and it has also been reported that Kushner may have assisted in supplying the list of Saudi businessmen and others who were held at the Ritz Carlton. In addition we have learned that Trump and his crime family in particular Jared Kushner were trying to fast track nuclear technology to the same regime. While the level of scandal is breathtaking from this criminal gang it is important to remember that this unholy alliance stands near the top of the list right behind the separation of children from their parents which while not necessarily treasonous is certainly a crime against humanity. The shame these monsters will stain us for a cery long time.
8
This shocking, repulsive revelation of international criminality will only enhance the reputation of Saudi Arabia's Dark Prince with our authoritarian-admiring Fake President, who likewise admires the dictatorial "toughness" of Putin and Kim. Trump is absolutely shredding whatever standing we had with allied western democracies before his incumbency. It will take years to restore this nation to its previous status. Suffering another term with him ensconced in the Oval Office is simply unimaginable.
10
Democrats, Republicans, oh, we’ve all been in bed with the saudis for many decades now. Just as we are with the many small tyrants of oil/gas rich Central Asia, and many other unsavory regimes.
6
Your sitting president backs this corrupt to the core regime. His son and law virtually sleeps in the same bed as MSB, thanks to his ill-gotten security clearance.
Trump is a role model for white supremacists around the world.
Your country was the last one in the world to ground 737 Boeings not to ruffle a CEO's feathers.
Big Pharma is killing your people with opioids while insulin is too expensive for the common folk.
,but you are all just waiting quietly until 2020 for things to change
31
Khashoggi was a US national, killed in Turkey. "trump" clearly was involved.
10
The US has engaged in torture itself in the not very distant past (some overseen by the current CIA director). We have sqandered a lot of any moral high ground we may have held because of this. I feel outrage must be tempered. We blew our purported values for nothing.
4
So now we must keep quiet like good chastened little girls and boys? Whatever you think "we" may have "squandered", it is no time to keep our mouths shut.
7
He Kingdom takes any allegations of of ill treatment of prisoners awaiting trial or sentencing seriously... all such complaints are satisfactorily disposed of...such satisfaction is clearly proven by the fact that the individuals make no further complaints.
2
Bring the ICC a bill of complaints. So there can be Indictments once and for all
1
You might think you are rich, but in any country where they can just come and get you, China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, you are nothing. So you have people in abject poverty that want to leave their home country, Venezuela as an example, but you've got wealthy citizens of China and Russia that want out.
2
It certainly could be a possibility that Trump was involved in the grisly death and disposal of Mr. Khashoggi.
I'm not a conspiracy person, but Trump (and family) are close to the Crown Prince. Trump himself despised Mr. Khashoggi as did MBS (and the Press in general). Is it too much of a stretch to think Trump knew all about it in advance--maybe actually set it up via Jared and MBS
I wouldn't put anything past this treasonous president! He's way too busy defending fascist leaders against us.
10
As long as Kushner and Trump's daughter are getting loans and cash from the Saudi's, the POTUS will continue to be a willing party to Murder.
17
OK, It's not a stretch to believe that Trump is living vicariously through M.B.S., with Jarred supplying him with lot's of salacious details of each mission.
4
The fact that the president and his son-in-law support this miscreant, is beyond the pale and just another indicator of what an unprincipled and low life president we have.
15
The Times and the left are always lecturing us to be respectful and tolerant of other peoples' culture - what's the problem? Criticism of the king is a capitol offense so if you are an SA citizen don't do it - or move.
3
You’re kidding, right? For starters, there is a huge difference between respecting a culture and respecting political repression and abuse, which are not an inherent part of any culture. By your logic, we had no business being outraged over the rise of Naziism, as it was just another foreign “culture”. Does that wash with you? Also, as this article points out, you can’t just leave SA and criticize it from afar because they will hunt you down and either bring you back or kill you.
Don’t try to use this to make a point about hypocrisy on the left. That argument doesn’t work at all.
5
Ah the Saudi’s, the source of the Wahhabi version of Islamic extremism that has birthed so much repression & terrorism and we foolishly call our ally. Amazing isn’t it how all that petro wealth buys influence and apologists of all political persuasions in D.C.. Trump & company are just another link in a long line of Washington enablers and are pikers compared to the Bush dynasty. There’s nothing new here except that now they travel out of Saudi Arabia to kill their critics. In country they just arrest, do show trials & execute or imprison the opposition. The current princes sin is that he’s clumsy and impulsive and that fits well with the Trump administrations equally clumsy and impulsive Saudi whisper Jared Kushner. What a farce we’ve become under our great leader the Donald. Sad
7
Thanks NYTimes for keeping up the pressure.
15
On one hand, the West criticize Saudi Arabia for its arch-conservatism, for the political role of reactionary clerics, its strict adherence to a radical Islamic education, for its 'contribution' to Sunni's jihadist, for its 'privileged' princes and princesses, for its lack of democratic institutions we, in the West, cannot imagine ourselves without.
On the other hand we, in the West, raise a "call to (a diplomatic) arms" when an attempt is made to change these by a'strong man prince'.
Now, we do want to see Saudi Arabia change, yet, can it be changed without harsh methods we would otherwise condemn had they been used in the West, including 'elimination' of opposition?
1
Geez. Illuminating article, which really is chilling in light of the demise of presidential truth-telling and moral integrity which we seem to be witnessing in the US.
The US president's son-in-law is a friend of MBS.
The US president openly predicts (and implicitly condones) violence by his "base" against his personal enemies.
The US president repeatedly proclaims that the media is the enemy of the people.
"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark!"
10
@KG
The U.S. is not in any way similar to the desert sheikdom which came into power in WWI, because the Brits needed access to the oil fields. The West developed the Kingdom which sits on oil, a much needed commodity for the industrialized West, especially during periods of mechanized war. That does not stretch to similar forms of government. We do not behead prisoners; remember Pearl's filmed execution. We do not cut off the hands of thieves as a public lesson for potential miscreants. We do not throw public enemies off tall buildings. We provide protection and weapons in return for oil; it is no more transactional than our relationship with Israel which now condones more activity along a conflict border zone due to a provocative move of its capitol to Jerusalem. We also condone the violent behavior of Russian Jews on the West Bank. Congress applauded Netanyahu's insults to a sitting host President Obama. Israel is no more peaceful than her neighbors; she is better armed. The Saudis want to be better armed in case of an insurrection at home. We have aligned the U.S. with the Saudis and Israelis against Iran. How many Iranians were on the hijacked 9/11 planes?
1
Jared wouldn't want to hang out with anyone not as brutal as MbS. How else could he show to the world just how manly he is? It's a point of pride to him, his treasonous wife and traitorous father-in-law, that he's included in that lovely inner circle in S.A.
8
Trump, Jared, and every Congressional Republican enabler of the crime family currently living in the White House all have blood on their hands. People who truly love this country will not vote Republican in 2020.
8
The first executive order Trump signed, EO-1, was a "total and complete shutdown on Muslims coming into the the United States" ... except Saudi Arabia and a couple of other faves who export terrorism. His first foreign trip was to Saudi Arabia. Why? Because Saudi Arabia is one of the world's largest military spenders.
Between 2016 and 2017 the value of US exports of weapons to Saudi Arabia doubled, from $1.8 to 3.4 billion. The US supplies 61% of its weaponry.
A few key corporate players feed at that trough. Raytheon gets five percent of its annual sales from the kingdom. Lockheed-Martin alone will sell Saudi Arabia almost a billion worth in 2019-2020. (Its profits overall were $14 billion in the 3rd quarter of 2018.) Boeing gets as much as 10 percent from sales of Boeing's F-15s, Apache helicopters, and other military gear used in its war against Yemenis who dare to follow the Shia branch of Islam. God forbid.
"Beware the military-industrial complex", said Eisenhower when he left office. He meant their slick-suited CEOs, lawyers and lobbyists would come to control our government and force us to make deals with the devil. And indeed they have.
18
Trump and Kushner are gealous as they would like to use MBS methods to evict tenants from rent control apartments..
4
Mohamed Bin Sultan is known in the Middle East as "Abu Monshar", a chilling moniker which, in colloquial Arabic, means "the one with the saw" in reference to his ordering the brutal murder and savage dismemberment of Mr Khashoggi in Istanbul.
It's high time the Saudi people rose up and removed the Saudi so-called monarchy in its entirety, and meted well deserved punishment on these tyrannical leeches.
It's also high time that our government -and the remaining Western governments- ostracize the Saudi regime, and recognize it for what it is...a murderous misogynist backward tyranny that has absolutely no place amongst us.
20
America has always supported brutal regimes when it needed them. An empire of the magnitude of the United States cannot afford to have any other ethical standard than what promotes its power and what finances its business interests.
Bush and Cheney even let such regimes do our dirty work for us, with secret renditions of terror suspects to countries which permit torture.
At the same time, we have been obliged to change our policies when especially egregious ones become impossible to cover up or minimize. Our foreign policy towards Saudi Arabia is quickly becoming one such; Trump will either have to double down on his demonization of Iran, or distance himself from the Magic Kingdom.
In addition, oil is becoming obsolete, will be obsolete as soon as 2030 for most transportation and energy purposes, probably to be replaced by nuclear and somewhat less by wind and solar. Our willful blindness on the horror of Saudi Arabia has been the result of our need for their oil. Once we no longer need it, the truth that Saudi Arabia is our ideological enemy (more so than Iran) will become more and more apparent.
3
@Mr. Little
The U.S. exports oil.
So here we have Jared Kushner's best friend. And a favorite of Donald Trump. What a collection of thugs and worse.
20
I wonder if Jared has taken notes from the Crown Prince and shared them with his white nationalist father-in-law.
13
There needs to be an investigation of whether Kushner green lighted these operations
16
Time to drop the realpolitik excuses with Saudi Arabia.
10
This has been well known for a long time, that Saudis do not respect human rights and will stop at little to silence their critics.
Why is the NYT going after this story now, with vengeance?
Nothing is reported in mainstream American media without approval from the higher-ups. I do not want to give credence to Trump's paranoia about a "deep state" directing all action by the govt.
Yet, one wonders, where was the NYT for the last several years when it did not report anything negative about Saudi Arabia? Why are the gloves off now?
7
So clearly you don’t actually read the NYT on a regular basis or you would know better. Try doing a search of the online paper & you will find numerous articles and opinion pieces about the Saudi’s, oh & leave that deep state nonsense out of your comments if you want them taken seriously.
9
Don't forget:this is Jared's best buddy.
18
GOP has sold it's soul (if it ever had one) to Satan as per bible.
No christian or a no decent American can support it.
17
Well written article. Disturbing content. Aside from the raw facts presented, it’s peripherally unnerving that this much classified information was disclosed to the press. Someone felt the release of this information to the public was of enough import to risk compromising sources and methods. Someone also felt confident that the leadership of the current administration would never act ethically in response to this information.
My gut is telling me Gina Haspel or some folks very close to her and very authorized by her have had enough of this President’s treatment of their work product are taking matters into their own hands. There is too much sensitive information here for a career intelligence official to violate their normal standards of discretion regarding classified points of interest. Only a high ranking official could have so much information consolidated at the ready. And only a high ranking official would feel within his or her rights to make a decision as consequential as talking to the press unilaterally.
This article is a provocation meant to ring alarm bells for Congress and the American public before the Kushner-MBS bromance yields policy fruit that leads us irreparably astray. I hope both the public and Congress are all paying attention to what any suspected Haspel (posse?) is trying to say.
18
It's clearly not enough for Congress to end U.S. participation in the Saudis war in Yemen. It's time for the House to investigate the assassination of Jamal Khashoggi, a U.S. resident, and, if as the intelligence community concluded, cancel all arms deals with Saudi Arabia, sanction them, and refer Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman to the International Criminal Court for trial.
26
I'm confused, am I supposed to conclude Mr. Thomas Friedman's previous declaration that SA was on the way to reform to have been almost George W. "Mission Accomplished" - like premature? Am I supposed to reframe my opinion of SA considering The Times declaration there were no ties to SA in the redacted 26 pages of the 9/11 commission report, that incidentally, turned out to be 28 pages that connected Bindar Bin Sultan to Abu Zubaydah and Sultan's wife to everyone in San Diego. Forget that he was a partner in Fox and whatever that meant. I mean, hasn't the story been all along that SA is our ally and therefore who cares what they do? Make up your mind NY Times.
8
Traitors are in position of power.
9
Americans call it the "Rapid Intervention Team"?!?! Worthy of Orwell, certainly.
7
This team of monsters serves Mohammed bin Salman. Their acts are his acts. He is a monster, too. Since they violated Saudi law, MBS violated Saudi law. Pretty clear that his authority is illegitimate and Trump has made an alliance with a criminal dictator. Trump’s knowledge of history seems to have missed the inability of monsters to last. They mostly end up dead and out of power.
23
Brave reporting. May you be protected from what befell your colleague.
9
I am appalled that we have anything to do with this oppressive regime.
21
Trump must be so jealous.
5
It might be far fetched but don't you think in the back of the vacuum of his mind the President gets a teensy-weensy little throb of jealousy when it comes to MBS?
9
What's your point? Everyone knows that the U.S. is in bed with violent sociopath dictators around the world. The only violent sociopath dictators we don't like are those that won't do our bidding, like China's Xi.
6
To claim one doesn’t believe there is sufficient evidence to pin the murder of Mr. Khashoggi on the crown prince is to invoke the Theory of Plausible Deniability beyond its limit.
The question of whether the crown prince dunnit is either an I.Q. Test or an indicator of fitness to serve the Republic, and perhaps is both.
8
How can the US condone MBS this regime? This makes Jared Kushner’s private talks with MBS and his strange financial ties all the more concerning. Our country should not befriend murderous dictators because they buy expensive weapons from us. The Saudi’s are known for having lots of money I wonder if financial improprieties are going on.
18
We've embraced torture abroad as a US government policy under the Bush/Cheney regime. We are dear friends and allies of foreign governments who practice torture as a matter of domestic policy. Our fondness and accommodation of countries with atrocious human rights records increases at an alarming rate.
Unless something changes with the republican party and their unquestioning support of Trump, it is easy to imagine American citizens, on American soil, rounded up for dissenting with the ruling regime and enduring psychological and physical abuse. There may come a time for America when it really is 'too late.'
18
And meanwhile our president insults John McCain.
72
The entire middle East is a mess, as are all the various cultures and religious ideologies and people from the area. So sad that the West pretends to have cultural roots in Greece, but it's religion from the middle East.
2
It’s just the sort of behavior trump and his cabal wish they could duplicate.
Usurping the power of congress with the national emergency declaration and veto of legislation to block it are taking our democracy down the road to dictatorship.
The congressional vote should have been unanimous in the House and the senate. Those who voted against the bill have failed to live up to their oaths and the constitution and have failed their constituents.
St. Patrick drove the snakes out of Ireland but they have ended up in Washington DC.
25
We’re energy independent. What rational reason do we have for supporting this barbarian regime? Do they support our non-existent effort at ME peace? Nope
7
Didn't the old communist countries of old like USSR, East Germany, Romania, North Korea Communist China do these things? You can still include China, Russia, North Korea, Venezuela. Didn't we almost go to nuclear war with the USSR because of our differences and went to war with North Korea and China? Now we embrace them, which means our supposed devotion to freedom and democracy was/is a sham. The Great Lie. Money and trade talks, democracy, individual freedoms and liberty walks. Now we have most of our country embracing greed as the primary American value and ideology. What a sad bunch of loser hypocrites we are always were.
11
But, but, he's wealthy, like super-wealthy and he buys a lot of American military stuff so it's just so much easier to put all the little stuff behind us, ignore it and get on with it. RIght Donald?
15
False branding (ie. the product is not as advertised) and the belief system it creates is not the exclusive domain of Donald Trump and his gullible hoards of followers who buy into his branding strategy no matter what the facts say and their eyes tell them. Intelligent people can be hoodwinked too.
In the Mid East alone, we had the prestigious NYT through Judith Miller buy into Dick Cheney weapons of mass destruction branding lie with Saddam. How many people after reading her series of Times articles on this issue then believed it was worthwhile, in fact absolutely necessary to invade that country.
Back several years ago, we had a whole series of glowing articles on Erdogan of Turkey from journalists lauding Erdogan as a new role model for democracy in the Muslim world. Major retraction please.
And today we have the esteemed editorial writer Thomas Friedman past words praising MBS as a breath of fresh air in the Saudi world only to look down on the floor and see the dismembered body of Khashoggi. Now the NYT sanitizing crew is called into action and we get an article like this.
So Trump, when he is wined, dined, and flattered is not the only one who can be pliable and used. In the end you can say your motives were purer than Trump. But it adds up to the same thing you were fooled.
13
To be fair, the columnists are independent opinion writers. So one needs to draw a distinction in your two examples.
1
It sounds like President Trump could be taking some very good lessons from the Crown Prince in regarding to instituting an American Rapid Intervention Group here in the United States.
The Trump Administration seems to be primed to do this, and it is the best positioned Administration since the Nixon Administration to be able to do it.
There are a number of dissenters and dissidents in American society including those in Government who need to be taken in hand and re-educated by the Trump Administration.
Threats from the Left, the Right, the Socialists, the Liberals and the Conservatives need to be dealt with strongly. Surely our American Black Ops Teams and Black Psy-Ops Teams can deal at least as well with OUR problem children as the Saudis can deal with theirs.
3
Trump will do nothing and his 'senior advisor,' Jared Kushner, who received top-secret clearance by our White House despite multiple warnings, will continue to court the demonic and homicidal Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. Republicans need to decide how low they will go. Does dismembering a human being meet the threshold of how far you'll sink before standing up to Trump?
18
House of Sawed. Bones, no Problem.
16
It was right after Kushner’s visit with MBS that MBS rounded up many Saudi’s, including family members and kept them like prisoners. Did Kushner give MBS classified information from the U.S that contributed to that? Wasn’t it soon after that money went to Kushner’s 666 building problems from who knows where? What is the full story there?
68
And still the POTUS is buddies with Salman for the sake of Jarrod and his bad real estate deals and for whatever reason.
That Saudi government represents what is underneath Trump and all his "base" supporters -- male power and domination at any cost.
It is shameful and embarrassing that Trump, who hates the truth and those who attempt to tell it, continues to be in his office and make the USA look ridiculous. What if Mr. Hannity or his other cheer leaders at FOX were killed and dismembered? Would he care then? Sadly, if it made him look "good" he wouldn't give a you-know-what.
11
might be that the only thing worse that the saudis is the trump administration
5
The small bit of gratification I get from writing a comment about these egregious abuses of power is a cop out. We, and I mean I, need to be protesting loudly and frequently outside the White House and in the halls of Congress. Like the Australian teenager, I'm at the egg throwing stage. I'm completely disgusted with my hypocritical country right now.
27
Not much new here. My conservative friends were upset at Michael Moore's depiction of Prince Badar, aka Bandar Bush, photographed holding hands with George W. Bush. It seems George and Bandar were just that close. That's what money does; makes friends. Stack money up against humanity and money wins, every time.
12
I'm ashamed that Donald Trump, regrettably our President, supports this sociopath Saudi Prince, and of course I know that Trump himself is a sociopath, an extremely dangerous one, given that he is the President of the United States, the one remaining super-power on the planet.
There is no doubt that this Saudi maniac needs dealing with, and when I say dealing with, I mean capture by whomever, covertly and quickly, his life ended, painfully, and his vile remains fed to the fish, just as was done with his landsman Bin Laden.
This is how evil must be dealt with, and every instance of failure to take evil to task, emboldens would-be future evildoers, resulting in acceptance of atrocities by state actors all over the planet.
Surely here in America, surely we must have some decency left.
5
At this point we know what to expect from Trump regarding these latest revolting revelations about the kidnap-torture-and-murder perverts who keep the Saudi feudal monarchy in power. He will deflect and dismiss obvious questions about whether we should change our foreign policy toward them.
5
Does anybody here really care what the Saudis want to do to themselves? Can’t we just be grateful to have big water on each side of us and worry only about top and bottom rather than importing new ones from places we have no business being? We get it that “dismemberment” sells papers. Cover butcher shops then.
And in all of this, please do not forget that 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were Saudi; as was Osama Bin Laden.
The Saudis are not friends of the US, or indeed of the West. They see us as a market for their oil and nothing more. We are only to be conquered and used.
The current occupant of the White House isn't equipped to play in MBS' league. Neither is his puerile son-in-law, an idiot without portfolio.
37
Trump is not the first president lacking morals. If social media existed back then, the same would have been said about the Bush dynasty’s allegiance with this tyrannical, murderous regime.
13
With the White House in the Saudis pocket, they can continue doing whatever they want. Thank you deplorables.
10
The CIA has a history of taking out good actors and bad actors. This guy is a real bad actor. Come on CIA do your stuff.
7
The killing of Khashoggi seemed much too slick to be a one-time job, a first and only effort; way too many bad guys and too much preparation to believe they just came to interview him, but then they had to kill him in self-defense because he fought back. No surprise that they're revealed to be a well practiced hit squad.
Now they're supposedly "on trial", but the Salman government won't "identify the accused" or let reporters see the trial. If convicted, they'll probably be sentenced to "hard times" with prostitutes and Champaign, possibly at some of the private rooms in the basement of Mar-a-Lago?
Isn't this the same Salman who arrested most of his extended family on some "bribery" charges, for doing much less wrong than Salman is doing? If he'd go after his own family, he'd go after anyone.
And they forcibly repatriate dissidents, even for "...critical or sarcastic comments". Gosh, that seems reasonable to me... (oops, was I sarcastic or critical??).
So of course Trump cuddles up to this sort of dictator, the kind Trump would like to be if only he could get away with it in the USA.
If Trump wins another election, expect hit squads in this country, with the Secretary of Hit Squads chosen from some of the "good people" yelling raging hate speeches at Charlottesville. Believe me, believe me.
15
As long as the USA's current administration is in power, I don't expect anything to change. Both Trump & Kushner are emboldened to MBS, to what extent, I doubt we'll ever know. MBS, Putin, KJU know exactly how to manage & manipulate Trump. What's more disgusting & infuriating is the GOP Congress who also have lost all moral values, ethics, integrity & honesty. Their complacency with everything this vile administration does has made more Americans lose faith in their country.
We're heading in the same direction as these fascist dictatorships with more rights being stripped from women, minorities & the LGBTQ community every day. Discrimination, bigotry, racism, religious persecution, misogyny and, yes white supremacy is growing stronger. I just can't fathom two more years of this insanity.
6
We are redoing with Islamic extremism the same errors we did with communism with the same gains for the military industrial complex. The same errors that killed democracy in Africa and Meso and South America, not to mention genocides and political assassination campaigns that these countries never recovered from. Now the children of Yemen and real Saudi reformers bear the brunt of ‘these jobs’ saved by selling weapons to Mr Kushner’s bff. Those who ignore history - again?
4
Saudi nationals were the majority of the "team" who brought down the twin towers. Yet New Yorker Trump shows no outrage - or even recognition -over this. Osama bin Laden was part of the Saudi royal family - shirttail kin though may have been. Yet, no reference or mention of this by our propadandaist in chief. Because the Saudi Royal family controls a significant amount of the oil which feeds the US oil habit - and the price of which to US consumers can make or break a politician - Trump and his advisers immediately ran to and fawned over MBS, in order to keep the flow going, and the price artificially low. Notice that Trump also raided the US Oil Reserves, and sold a significant amount shortly after being sworn in, similarly to flood the market and help depress the US consumer price of oil. Time to end this, to shift to renewable power resources, and to call out and sanction such human rights abuses. We may not be able to prosecute MBS, but we don't have to humor him.
6
Are we really supposed to be surprised by any of this? Extrajudicial killings are not the sole preserve of the Saudi princes.
The Israelis have been carrying them out for decades. The Philippine president, Duterte openly boasts about the dozens of extrajudicial killings that have taken place during his current 'drug war'.
Trump's latest love interest, the North Korean dictator Kim Jong-un has no hesitation in indulging his murderous whims by eliminating all threats to his power.
Add to these, Trump's other best buddy, Vlad Putin, whose favorite form of killing seems to be the deadliest of chemical weapons, and no - we should not be surprised about this.
Even the United States can not claim to have clean hands or a clear conscience with regard to this issue. The extrajudicial elimination of dozens of perceived enemies via the use of drones are just a more sophisticated (and expensive) way of eliminating people seen as threats to the country.
No, we should not be surprised by any of this.
I often wonder if T.S. Eliot was right when he wrote: “This is the way the world ends/Not with a bang but a whimper.”
5
He very strongly denies it though, so says the traitorous criminal.
3
The United States of America must stop supporting the Ibn Saud gang no country in the world is being tried secretly does it make sense in 2019 countries like this. I am from Hijaz
3
The rulers of Saudi Arabia are a criminal gang no better than the Mafia - worse, because their reach is wider.
10
If Americans abandoned their pickup trucks for Priuses could we dump these losers because their fuel was unnecessary?
6
So, why are Kushner and Trump vigorously supporting the Crown Prince. Even with political realism taken into account, there has to be some limit of American support. Trump ought to insist the the Royal family hold the CP to account and that American will be conditioned upon designation of another CP.
4
It’s all about Trump and Kushner real estate deals, American foreign interests are a secondary concern.
42
Wonder if Jared is getting some ideas of how to handle Donnie's critics here in America? This horrific behaviour would never be tolerated by any other past administration...it is shocking that Pompeo can meet with this murderer at all, let alone smile and enjoy himself. And Donnie and Jared encourage more of this horror with every day that passes.
26
@Lynn F.
"W" allowed all Saudis to fly out of the U.S. from FL after all flights were grounded. The Bush family have extensive business interests in SA. You think that influenced a decision to exempt Saudis from a government edict?
1
Where are the BDS supporters on this?
1
I'm not a BDS supporter but still wondering why Israel supported the United States and was the only country to do so in supporting the sanctions against Cuba.
3
Many great comments about this villainous regime here. The question I want answered is what is the hold the Saudis have over Trump and Kushner. What are the financial entaglements? What promises have been made to prevent Trump from berzting and condemning MbS for the murder/assassination of a U.S. green card holder and journalist for the Washington Post Jamal Khashoggi whose children are U.S. citizens? Why is our government not raising a major complaint for the release and repatriation of dual US-Saudi citizen Dr. Walid Fitaihi? He was caught up in the November 2017 Ritz Carlton roundup and has been in custody, and probably tortured, ever since.
22
It really isn’t just the Trumps who are in thrall to the Saudi regime. The US government has been licking the boots (sandals?) of the Sauds for decades. Remember where most of the 9/11 hijackers came from? Can you imagine if they’d been Iranian?
17
@MNPatt
You are absolutely correct, especially about helping out our own citizens and residents.
Kushner received an enormous loan from the Qataris, presumably at the request of Saudis and negotiations about his white elephant building have been ongoing. Basic corruption, as usual with this crowd. - https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/17/nyregion/kushner-deal-qatar-666-5th.html
5
So to be clear, Prince Mohammed bin Salman gets to set up his kangaroo court and execute 5 other people in this ever expanding coverup as the US continues to support our oil rich allies. Nice...
10
No shame at all. These are such transparent lies. I, however, am ashamed of our own government and the role that they are playing in the systematic torture and killing of innocent Saudis. I hope the next administration brings these people to justice.
16
You just know that Trump is thinking, 'I wish I could do that to get rid of my enemies'.
22
Interesting that Jared, who looks like he couldn't punch his way out of a wet paper bag, cozies up to this monster. Aside from whatever monetary benefits he foresees, there is definitely some perverse dynamic going on there. If I was Ivanka, I'd be jealous.
17
Let me see if I understand this correctly. Crown Prince Mohammed in Salman is a murderous dictator who oppresses his people. Beheads them in the street if they get out of line. Tortures women who have the temerity to ask for human rights. Sends death squads into foreign democracies to abduct and murder his opponents. Invades other countries killing and starving hundreds of thousands women and children. Check. And when does our regime change attack force begin? Oh wait, it's tied up in Venezuela and Syria. It's all about the Benjamins baby.
61
The Saudis would probably outsource these goons to Donny to take of Alec Baldwin and the SNL crew.
12
And the reaction from our Executive will be a big, fat shrug, as being brute animals is no longer looked down upon.
19
Just like the early days of the Gestapo regime, everyone looked the other way with the excuse that Germany was a sovereign state, the result was catastrophic it changed the history of the world as we know it, now the world is experiencing a resurgence of Gestapo like governments and characteristics and the United States looks the other way even by action and statement acquiesced to it. History is about to judge us Americans and our elected government harshly for our actions. America has failed morally to be the leader of the free world.
93
And this is the Best Bro of Jared Kushner, United States minister of everything on earth without security clearance? Is he taking lessons in getting rid of political opponents and critics by torture and assassination? A Saudi gift he can bring back to his father-in-law once he’s abolished Congress and declared himself king?
62
And the Trumps including Kushner call him, friend.
All the lamest people name check Trump. And Trump namecheck all the lamest people. And 26% of the electorate voted for this guy. I no longer wonder why Germany became what it did in 1933.
62
Recently two Saudi teenage sisters were found dead along the Hudson River. I believe that the most recent theory for their deaths was that they didn’t want to return to Saudi so they committed suicide. They died holding hands, by drowning themselves together. I can’t imagine the helplessness and hopelessness that led these siblings to end their lives rather than return to their homes. The Saudi rulers take away the very elemental rights of their citizens just because they were born into some pathetic royal family and they get off on watching torture. They are beasts. We must cut ties with them.
37
The government for decades has had dirty hands regarding this cruel regime founded on a cruel “faith.” By default all of us are implicated; including and especially 9/11.many of us are sickened.
12
Yeah, and the US govt couldn’t care less than they do already. There is no longer to go.
4
When will our country wake up and see that Trump is a one man wrecking ball in our country. He has emboldened our enemies, infuriated our allies, ignored the americas, rejected human rights, embraced racism, flaunted his lack of respect for the office and this only the first 2 years. I KNOW I am not the only person who is wondering where is the party I use to belong- the R’s?
18
There should be a test (like for glucose) to identify psychopaths and sociopaths. A smart haircut and expensive clothes are deceiving. How much horror and pain has the world suffered with evil leaders?
12
Sadly and fearfully, I believe Trump would love to be like MBS. He has the very same tendencies. Will we let it happen? Seems like maybe we are going there.
14
In the fantasy administration of Donald Trump and his ethically-challenged, completely inexperienced and cash-strapped son-in-law, Jared Kushner, we hear the murderous Saudi Crown Prince, Mohammed bin Salman, repeatedly depicted as a reformer and good friend of the United States.
Not only are Americans expected to accept meekly the lies and evasions of our president and his family, people around the world, who traditionally looked to America as an example of justice and moral rectitude, no longer trust our government.
19
These poor people. These brave people. May both their pain and their courage be remembered. The women who simply drove cars as a crime, the lawyer who simply defended the women, the journalist who tried to provide an explanation of the Saudi world to those abroad.
Barbarism is awake and active now. And it is encouraged either implicitly or explicitly by the Trump regime. This is unprecedented in America, and the moral leadership we used to have of the free world is circling down the drain.
The crown prince boasted before his detention and torture and imprisonment of the elite in the hotel that Jared Kushner had shared highly classified information with him.
He who sups with the devil should have a long spoon. it doesn't matter if it is silver.
I am so sorry to the families, friends, and victims of the Saudis (including the 9/11 victims as well as the more recent ones).
85
You should not talk about the prince that way. He is President Trumps good friend, much admired by our President. And he is America's staunch ally whose foreign wars the President supports. I am sure the President believes their domestic policies should be left to them.
Besides he did is not responsible for the death of the American journalist. The prince can be believed because he is rich, and anything rich people say is truth. The attacks on the prince are just fake news. What would Snow White say about attacking a prince?
2
The Clown and his trumpist puppets will simply call this "fake news" and continue with their destruction of American values. Sickening.
24
Congress must force Trump (and his ridiculous "senior advisor" and close bin Salman friend, Jared Kushner) to confront this head on.
And not with talk of how many jets they are buying or "maybe he did and maybe he didn't" or "I take him at his word".
1004
@srwdm Trump/Kushner are complicit in murder
151
@srwdm Don't count on it! Gutless Congress and tyrant loving President and his family! A truly toxic mix.
118
@srwdm That is a nice thought but I think you underestimate how amoral Trump is and how that huge character defect leads to a brutally transactional approach to almost everything.
118
In return for Saudi Arabia's purchase of 110 billion dollars of American weapons, President Trump has made us accomplices to the murder of Saudi critics of MBS and of thousands of Yemenis. And, understanding that our consciences are not for sale, he has done all he has been able to do to conceal this monstrous behavior from us.
43
@Joel A. Levitt
And there is absolutely no guarantee the Saudis will actually spend those billions on American weapons. They've reneged on commitments before.
7
It`s time to abolish these out of date kingdoms.Let`s bring them democacy, put boots on the ground.
3
@Pale Rider
I think we did that once before: Iraq, Afghanistan, and now Iran? How many Afghans and Iraqis died in our last "boots on the ground" adventures?
2
A spokesman for the Saudi Embassy in Washington said the kingdom “takes any allegations of ill treatment of defendants awaiting trial or prisoners serving their sentences very seriously.”
More legal-speak, taking these allegations “very seriously.” Please.
They may take the allegations seriously but what exactly does that mean?
If there is smoke there’s fire. The Saudis are guilty as sin.
20
@Len "What exactly does that mean?" It means they torture the complainers even more brutally.
7
Other than offering a new name--Rapid Intervention Group--does this article tell readers anything they haven't already read about recent Saudi actions?
5
@GHB
If nothing else, this article keep the topic current. We cannot allow MbS to walk away from all of his criminal behavior.
7
@MNPatt
What do you suggest? Trial before an International Criminal Court? Russia and China didn't join our sanctions against Iran. Canada withdrew her troops from Afghanistan and Iraq. This isn't 1948; we don't own the world as we did after WWII.
1
Everytime another democratic candidate enters the 2020 race for POTUSA the more it appears that Donald T will be the next President. The democratics just get it
1
@lftash what has this got to do with this article?
6
Trump touts US oil refining and exporting abilities, which have the potential to provide the US with oil-energy independence if managed properly. We currently receive less than ten percent of our oil imports from Saudi Arabia.
Trump also dramatically inflates the US's dependence upon SA regarding weapons sales.
Trump, though, decries his and his administration's affinity for hard-line, conservative, immoral regimes.
His attitude is obvious; his incentive is greater than what speculation suspects, and is somewhat documented as well.
Trump: Please enlighten us as to other reasons for supporting SA.
2
@JC
Our refineries are not able to handle large quantities of heavy crude; we ship it to China.
I hope Saudi Arabia's oil profits plunge as the world hopefully moves faster to more Earth friendly energy sources.
May the House of Saud become a fossil like the oil they've used to become the authoritarian despots they are. Never forgot that 9/11 was perpetrated almost entirely by Saudi Arabians.
43
@a goldstein
We have the sources; we don't have the storage capacity or technology.
@Gary No. just don't want morally corrupt complicity, in highest ranks of US leadership, with that Iron Fist
1
This looks like realpolitik at its grisliest--both among the Saudis and among ourselves. There was, indeed, a time when alliance with the Saudis equated to some geopolitical benefits for the US, in particular concerning a reliable secondary supply of crude oil. Reliance on overseas oil has declined substantially since that time. Perhaps some residual benefit remains to amity with the Saudis--though none comes to mind, unless it's profiteering by ol' Agent Orange. He seems to feel he's the reincarnation of Otto von Bismarck. I think Rex Tillerson got closer to the truth. Here's hoping the free press keeps the lights and the pressure on. . .
12
It's reprehensible to think that "we" support the Saudis, in part, so that we can sell them American airplanes. In addition, we are involved in wars in Yemen, Somalia, Afghanistan, etc., and maybe soon in Venezuela. It wasn't all that long ago that "we" were invading and destabilizing Iraq and water boarding people at Abu Ghraib. When, if ever, will we have a sane, humane foreign policy, let alone a fair and just domestic one?
19
The two places in the world that frighten me are Saudi Arabia and N. Korea. Citizens have no rights and are brutally killed if they complain. It is hard to see how Saudi Arabia has a holy city when such horrors can occur and nothing is done. I have no problem with the Islamic religion but I don’t understand why ongoing brutality in Saudi Arabia isn’t condemned.
Dictators of the world can feel embolden when Trump retreats from the US's traditional role as a leader in the world to stand up for traditional democratic values, including freedom of expression. Trump speaks with authoritarian and anti-media rhetoric.
Trump: "We're not going to put a human life above Saudi Arms sales." This position speaks volumes about his priorities. Saudi sheikhs, their cash and their oil are Trump's American values.
Trump praises U.S. relations with Saudi Arabia as 'excellent,' and insisted that any consequences for the disappearance of the U.S.-based journalist "would not be economic."
22
The inhumanity of the Saudi's is heartbreaking. What civilized nation would continue diplomatic relations with such a brutal government? Unchecked greed and the unending pursuit of wealth should not be the foundation of our Democracy.
22
@Sasha I KNOW....I KNOW.......the USA.
2
No surprise that Jared saw MbS as 'best bud' even after the Khashoggi murder was ascribed to him by CIA. "Kushner, Inc: Greed, Ambition and Corruption, the Extraordinary Story of Jared Kushner & Ivanka Trump" by journalist Vicky Ward is out Tues. They're both corrupt to the marrow.
47
Let's hope that Trump's keepers don't read this article to him. He'll be overwhelmed with admiration. .. A wonderful incentive to move ahead on supplying the Saudi's with nuclear technology...That's still in the works, isn't it? Can't say the current administration is compromising our ideals by dealing with these people....They're definitely on the same track..
5
Brookfield Infrastructure bails out the Kushners at 666 5th Ave to the tune of 1.6 billion. Brookfield Infrastructure buys insolvent subsidiary of Westinghouse that builds nuclear reactors. Kushner leads the charge to provide nuclear technology to the Saudis, completely bypassing all American safeguards for the transfer of nuclear technology. Donald shrugs and asks if he can put his hands back on the glowing orb. Tiny minds and tiny hands but voraciously greedy.
138
Strange: Brookfields owned by Qatar Sovereign Investments - Saudi's(MBS) dislike of Qatar is well documented, so looks like Q bailed out Jared to the chagrin of MBS and yet Jared appears to answer to the bone saw man?
9
Maybe the US Congress will have the backbone to stop giving aid to the Saudis whether through planes and weapons or through nuclear "energy" deals.
15
@stefanie Hello Stephanie, is't been quite some time i haven't heard from you and i wish to get a reply anytime soon to know all i have been missing all this years. Please take good care of yourself and have a wondeful time. Here is my email address [email protected]
The most loyal Trump supporter better realize that this con artist President is in bed with the devil. Trump allows his daughter to be married to an individual who will do anything for money. Couldn’t even get into an elite school without criminal daddy.
Vote and get these murderers out of office. How did the GOP sink so low to support this con man. There is a special place for GOP and it’s not in America.
For any trolls who want to take me on with your fancy words the truth is in plain sight.
Democracy will not die on our watch
56
@Tony Well, Trump and his father were willing to do anything for money, so I'm sure he thought Kushner would fit right in. I don't think there is enough bleach in the world to cleanse the stain these vile people have smeared all over this country.
13
What I find most disturbing about the crown prince’s behavior is the rumored possibility that Mr. Trump will refuse to vacate his office in 2020 if he is voted out. This is suggested by those familiar with the Trump family’s way, that he’ll claim the election was stolen, just what you’d expect from the crown prince.
22
But Jared likes him!
31
This is the guy at that we were told was a big reformer. To start he should be persona non grata for the brutal war in Yemen as well as the Kashoggi murder. If he is not immediately charged for these crimes in the World Court, it is only a travesty of justice, it encourages other similar acts.
43
I thought US dependence on Saudi Arabia for oil was reduced since fracking gas in the US has been so successful ?
dealing with woman-hating murderers just seems the wrong thing to do.
P.S. I believe they also supported Osama Bin-Laden - remember what he did for America ?
36
The US has looked away at the horrific Human Rights abuses in Saudi Arabia for decades. We know over half the population are literally under house arrest. We even help. We help them bomb and starve Yemini children. We send our sons and daughters to war with Iraq on their behalf.
Why? Follow the money.
79
How weak must the Saudi kingdom be if they are afraid of three women driving cars?
153
@Jack McDonald
First you let them drive cars. Next they want to be able to leave the house, go to school, go to the doctor, and even travel abroad without permission from a male guardian. Next thing you know, they'll try to run for President!
34
It looks like Donald Trump and his ilk have found kindred spirits in the Saudi royals. Corrupt, deceptive, repressive and murderous; what's not to like?
130
I can not think of anyone better deserving of the Nobel Peace Prize than Loujain al-Hathloul and Aziza al-Yousef.
16
@Thomas
Add Greta Thunberg to your list.
6
Of Course--who's his BFF-DJP...Right now anyone wanting to Crush Dissent or Kill Invaders has a US President in his corner
11
You can tell much about a person by the company they keep. I'm looking at you, Jared.
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We, the USA, want a deeply conservative and religious Muslim country to modernize, to secularize, to treat women well and to upend its social order. I think that isn't going to happen without an iron fist. The Muslim countries where women often have the most rights have been ruthless dictatorships. Think, Stalin and the Soviet Muslims, Saddam Hussein and Iraq, and Syria the Assads. In Turkey, the Muslim establishment was disgraced in WW 1 and Attaturk, a dictator, committed the country to a secular future. That's not a stamp of approval, but a historical observation.
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@Gary No, we just don't want the morally corrupt complicity at the highest levels of US government to continue. History is one thing and time for a change is another.
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@kfm. It's our need for their oil that has corrupted our government long before Trump became the President. Saudi money has bought off our government since the 1960's.
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The sheen is off of the so-called reformer MBS. It seems that he is just another classic Saudi thug, albeit a well-dressed one with a nice smile and a deep Rolodex.
Now that the truth is coming out, drip drip drip, will the US pull back from the unilateral support it has always given the Saudis? With Trump and Kushner putting their personal business interests front and center, I have a good guess what will happen. And that makes me deeply worried and concerned.
This is a wake up call for all sensible Americans to make sure that we elect a sane, sensible, erudite, and thoughtful POTUS who respects the media and believes in facts when we go to the polls next. Our country's image and the safety of our citizens is at stake.
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@chickenlover
Don't hold your breath re: "a thoughtful POTUS." Saudi Arabia is an enemy of Iran, and since American foreign policy in the Middle East revolves around Israel, the realpolitik of the situation means that no POTUS ever will take a stand based on American principles against the Saudi dictatorship. (The Bushes were owned by the House of Saud and Obama bent the knee, if you remember.) Trump & Javanka may be taking things to a new level with their fawning over MSB (a sure sign that there is big $$$ involved), but American foreign policy vis a vis Saudi Arabia essentially has been unchanged since the end of WWII -- and will continue in the same manner for the foreseeable future.
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@chickenlover
Our countries image? Too little too late.
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@Keeping it real even after 9/11 where 15 of the hijackers were Saudis and tons of Saudi Money had gone to support bin Laden.
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I keep reading “killed and dismembered“ over and over and over again, this man was a journalist about to be married and his future wife waited outside. Simultaneously I’ve just viewed literally dozens of pictures of Trump, numerous GOP Senators and Ivanka and Jared in the company of guess who... one wonders what happened to integrity, empathy, decency & respect for the rule of law, this man was literally butchered and these “stains” on America couldn’t care less .. bury them all in 2020. Annihilate them at the ballot box...
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@Shane Michael Boland Unfortunately " integrity, empathy, decency & respect for the rule of law" died in the U.S.A. in January 2016.
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@WAHEID January 2017 - but we get your meaning.
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@Shane Michael Boland: In that society it is doin' what comes nacherly! They have always been that way and most likely will remain that way regardless of anything done or said in Washington or anywhere else.
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They are nothing but hypocrites frauds....Trump Family and the pseudo "Royal" family of the Arabian peninsula. Evil. We gave them a pass on 9/11, and sold our soul in the process.
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@Marko Polo. Agree!
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Sounds like they need a coup in Saud Arabia.
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@emm305
Not a coup--that would replace one gang of thugs with another. A democratic revolution.
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@Martha Shelley
'We' need the coup.
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Time for Strict Boundaries and Limits on this blood thirsty mentally ill Prince and his Ilk. I saw it in Saudi w their behaviors ..... and we enable this horrible Regime ,,,this administration is in the thick of it.....
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He reached the top in a regime known for its cruelty. Ibn Saud, the founder of Saudi Arabia left behind 5,000 progeny. He beat out all his cousins to reach the top. In any totalitarian regime, whether it is communist, fascist, theocratic or a monarchy, reaching the top and maintaining control requires control of the penal system which includes the secret service, judges, police, prisons, torture chambers etc. to keep the public and rivals in line and control of information which includes the press, broadcast, the pulpit, what gets taught in schools and what gets discussed on the internet. The prince was able to fool the world because he controlled the narrative and the world was naive. The world wanted to believe him as so many regimes in the middle east are equally reprehensible and he projected the image of change. The Prince's methods are no different from any other dictator whether it be Putin, Xi, Assad, Maduro, Khomeini etc. The world must understand that there are no white knights in the wretched politics of the middle east. It is a choice between the bad and the worse.
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@Rahul
Are we concerned that Trump admires these brutal dictators and yearns to rule as one for example he threatened to use the govt FCC to crack down on night shows critical of him and mentioned he had the military police and biker thugs on his side a thinly veiled threat of violence vs his opponents a dictators ploy.
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@Rahul
The dictators you named Putin, Xi, Assad, and
Kim Jong-un are admired and even revered by Trump, and apparently he does not mind their tactics a bit. Just the other day he said that there are people within the US military, NRA and the biker gangs who can be tough on Trump's critiques. Does that mean that the people who write their opinions in this column criticizing Trump should await a similar fate that these dictators have meted out to their opposition? Just asking!
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@Rahul President Maduro is no dictator. He is a legitimately elected President of a country that has a remarkably democratic Constitution; it contains a provision for recall of a President. The process to hold a recall referendum to vote on recalling Maduro was started on May 2, 2016. On that date, opposition leaders in Venezuela handed in a petition to the National Electoral Council (CNE) that started a several stage process. They lost, he won. Also do remember that Murder and torture are also well employed by so called democracies notably the United States - the torture is well documented; I regard the use of Drones as murder, as it is under International Law.
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Thank you NY Times for shining the light on this evil treatment of Saudi citizens. You may not be able to force Trump to respond appropriately, but you have exposed them and given them the chance to do the right thing. It's up to Trump and his cohorts to decide whether they choose to fight the evil or scurry back into the dark like roaches.
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How come nothing about Jared's sharing of Intel with MSB? This story feels a little incomplete.
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Is anyone even remotely surprised? Maybe I'm jaded, naive or possibly delusional, but I have always assumed the worst case scenario when it comes to the Saudis, the Iranians, Russians, Iraqis, Isrealis, Syrians, North Koreans, or anyone else really. Because at every turn, they will burn us. Always have, always will.
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@BorisRoberts
I agree with your comment in general but I would not club Israel with the others. Netanyahu may himself have his shortcomings but Israel stand out like a beacon of hope in the middle east. Israel lives in a tough neighborhood and it is not a crime to defend oneself. Israel has made mistakes, but the which nation has not.
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@BorisRoberts. Israel shows the inherent stability and restraint of real democracies which must answer to public opinion in a way that not one of the other countries needs to take into account.
It’s sad that some are so blinkered by their ideologies that Israel is even mentioned in the same breath as the strong man autocracies and dictatorships on the list.
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@Rahul
Israel as a beacon of hope? Palestinian life and property mean nothing to Israel. Israeli snipers shot thousands of protesters in Gaza last spring, including medics and journalists.
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Why is Kushner going there with no agenda and no reports? And why is he communicating with MBS using WhatsApp?
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@DGH. And why did Trump overrule advisors and take insist that Kushner get top-level security access? Kushner and MBS as “friends” is an extraordinarily dangerous situation for our country.
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@DGH
"Why is Kushner going there?"
Hmmm....maybe hotel deals? Golf courses?
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Nothing matters to Trump& Jared except their own personal wealth. They are laying the groundwork for their future deals while pretending to work on behalf of the American people. They disgust me almost as much as the GOP who allows them to pursue their personal agenda.
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The USA should be placing as much pressure on Saudi Arabia as we do on North Korea, if not more, to encourage the Saudi government to join the civilized world and stop their human rights abuse of women and activists. Where are the economic sanctions against Saudi Arabia?
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@AnnieT- never will happen, unfortunately. Too much money at stake. they've invested about a Trillion dollars or more in our corporataions over the years. Profits count; democracy individual freedoms don't. Now we have Boeing to shed light once again about corporate profit influence on American policy, whether domestic or foreign.
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@AnnieT There was something in the news recently about plans for US companies to sell Saudi Arabia nuclear reactors and nuclear power plants as an alternate to fossil-fuel sources of energy. I think Jared Kushner and MBS came into it somehow. If so, economic sanctions won't be on the agenda any time soon. 2020 at the earliest.
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@AnnieT
Wake up. The U.S. has no plan to use sanctions against Saudi Arabia; the position of djt and his pet Kushner is to reward the Saudi's and make more deals with them to gain family deals.
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Remember, Trump has the military, the police and the Trump bikers (according to Trump.) He doesn't need secret police.
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And US backing of this behavior by Trump is due to arms sales?
WOW!
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we are looking at the monstrosity the trump wants to be.
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Why don’t Trumpers see it?
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Dictators are not compatible with dissent. The Latin term 'dictator' means his word is law, so anyone who dissents is a lawbreaker by that definition. Supporters of such tyrants find every kind of fake reason to blame dissenters for the repression, but really it is just the Bully's way or else. We give dictatorial behavior many names, but basically it is all just Bullyism.
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Follow the money. Trite, but true.
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Our cozy relationship with this country is disgusting. We don't need their oil. We don't need their strategic support - especially if we restructured our relationship with Iran. Like not demonizing them.
Actually, based on this article, we should be leveling sanctions on this monster, halting ALL weapons sales and pouring on a barrage of efforts to unite the international community to shut this regime down. MBS and company are horrific dictators and murderers.
Their treatment of women alone disqualifies them as legitimate leaders.
Where are our values? Where is our leadership for human (womens!) rights? Our support for these people is beyond embarrassing. It is ridiculous.
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@Bob Bruce Anderson- we don't need their oil but our policy to become a self suffcient energy producer has been sidetracked. We still import their oil while we export ours!! So the intent has always been to not become an energy self suffcient country. Freedom from the Arab countries with regards to oil was just a marketing ploy to allow for more oil/nat gas domestic development. We not too long ago allowed the export of oil and nat gas. Perhaps the biggest mistake ever made, but greedy people are blinded by their greed in their decision making.
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@lou andrews we "need" their sovereign $ now..our defense contractors depend on their sales to Saudis, our real estate developers need their $ 🤯
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Unrestrained power/money in the hands of despicable dictators, presidents, etc. will continue to bring more of the same and probably even worse acts to the people and the nature @Bob Bruce Anderson
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The US supports with aid 73% of the worlds dictators. The Saudi’s agreed back in Nixons time to back using US dollars in oil trades (Petro Dollars), in exchange they received our protection. We are currently supplying air support and weapons for the Saudi massacre in Yemen where tens of thousands have died and over 20 million are on the verge of starvation - the worlds worst humanitarian disaster. The Saudis are also the largest financiers of al Qaeda and terrorists in the world.
Anytime you hear that the US cares about democracy and human rights, just remind yourself of our support of the Saudis.
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@steve And we could on and on and, on our past help in over throwing, democratically elected presidents that we couldn't control or didn't like. Example Mohammad Moussadegh of Iran in 1953, Jocobo Arbens of Guatamala in1966,Allende in Argentina,Bosch in Dominican Republic and Aristide of Haiti in both 1991 and 2004 !!! We tried but didn't succeed with Fidel, or Chavez but are now trying with Maduro !!!!
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@MA Preston
Allende in Chile.
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@K Bombach
....wasn't it corporate U.S. mining interests involved in that national bloodbath....
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Round up the usual suspects. trump certainly has interesting friends-and lovers.
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Our support of this brutal regime is no different than our installation and support of the Shah of Iran. It's not just Trump who has turned a blind eye to the injustices in the Middle East. I yearn for a time when America will once again stand up for the principles of freedom in the world. If not us, who?
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@David DeSmithI yearn....,,,,,Godd luck with that, fat chance that will ever happen never was!!!!.
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@David DeSmith
Yes. And just as with Iranians, when the Arabian citizens finally overthrow their government, they are going to hate America forever for having sponsored such a murderous regime.
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@David DeSmith - At one time we were moving in that direction. Jimmy Carter was President and we had a foreign policy based on human rights. But we got away from that, better to support right wing death squads in Nicaragua (Reagan's foreign policy).
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No surprise, brutal authoritarian monarchs are what we have long known. That's why we use to demand improved civil rights and basic human rights in our dealings with these types of governments. Now, we have a president whose self-interest has undermined civil rights not only at home but across the world. Any suggestion that he isn't contributing to the rise or authoritarian and right wing extremism is pure gas lighting.
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Is it coincidental that Kushner is BFF with the Saudi Prince and that the Prince helped him bail out 666 Park Ave. Quite frightening that such a person as Kushner has top security clearance yet so many instances where he is enriching himself.
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Jared Kushner was right we can work with these people. Thank God Jared is our point man on the ME.
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The most chilling aspect of this report on our Jared's best friends is the promise of the kingdom's spokesman, that the family takes any report of abuse "very seriously." What could be more obvious?
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Right. Apart from ordering the murder of Kashoggi, MSB has “led a blameless life.”
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"There are good people on both sides. The people killed and their killers. Fine fine killers in that dictatorship. Very trustworthy."
Remember when the United States used to stand for something. Feels like a long time ago, but it was just two years. G_d help us.
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@Andrew Lee It's been a lot longer than that.
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In a few words: this is barbaric actions by the Saudi Crown Prince.
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Sounds like the same teams doing anti terrorism work. It’s only a matter of time before these despots around the world turn around those skills and barrels to face democratic and or any activists they disagree with!
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So, the history of salman has been known for some time, and yet this is the ally trump chose? There is money here, to either trump or his son-in-law. Probably both. What will trump do when an American is killed by salman?
American, you are alone, should be the response of the world.
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Did Jared use his forced top security clearance to feed intel to MSB enabling him to loot and torture Saudi royals? Jared would be following in the footsteps of Trump who provided the Russian spymaster with top secret Israeli intel to impress him or payback Putin for his help in 2016 election. Congress needs to find out why the intel community and his own chief of staff/legal counsel did not want to give it to Jared or Ivanka . Besides being unqualified on international affairs there maybe financial entanglements that would compromise our national security. The national security of the USA should not be compromised by the financial interests of the Trump/Kushner families.
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No one is going to know the whole truth about this, but it seems that the vast wealth of the Gulf region, coupled with a repressive government, makes for place that I would not want to visit-especially if I were female.
That our current president and his children try to placate both Israel and Saudi Arabia is something that will haunt the US in the coming years.-Especially when the US hasn't been trying to influence the region through unwarranted invasions of neighboring countries.
I would also remind my fellow Americans that there are greater issues closer to home. Namely, Latin America.
When people will walk 1000 miles to come to the US, there must be a reason-One most likely that is not good.
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@Gdnrbob
I would say that those people walking a thousand miles to get here have a very good reason for doing so. I think that's what you meant.
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As for MBS, I think the saying applies: Wash a dog, comb a dog, still a dog. As for the Ritz Carlton, you'd think they'd want their name off that "hotel;" perhaps the Trump Organization needs a place to hang some of those brass letters that have come down from other locations.
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Surely the U.S. is a mature enough and rich enough democracy — Trump notwithstanding — to resist the lure of Saudi money.
You cannot preach democracy while propping up blood-thirsty despots.
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I’m sure they do take “allegations of ill treatment very seriously”. The “allegers” immediately go on the list of people to be tortured or killed. And the US sits by giving them weapons.
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Predicted Tweet from the Oval Office: "Maybe he did, maybe he didn't!"
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If, as a country, we were half as reputable as 'flag-waving patriots' might have you think we are, we would have a push to use only vehicles which get high mpg so that we would no longer support the horrible country of Saudi Arabia. So they buy our military weapons by the billions? That makes them our friend? They have a worse civil rights record than does China! They are the Apartheid system of the Middle East, along with many other countries with high concentrations of Muslims. When will we ever set the bar a bit higher (quite a bit higher) for how we choose who our so-called allies are? What do MBS, Putin, Trump and Kim Jong Un all have in common? They will out and out lie to your face at the drop of a dime. Not one of them can be believed.
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This is the bosom buddy of Kushner and Trump. More proof that one is known by the company he keeps. Birds of a feather with no regard for ethics or human rights.
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@Avatar I seem to remember our Nobel Peace Prize winning president warmly embracing and selling weapons to them not too long ago. This sordid relationship is very old and pre-dates Trump. It's just that people are finally paying attention to things now because Trump is so horrible. Let's finally be honest, we as a nation have sold our soul to this despicable theocratic monarchy for their oil and money.
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@FXQ the full depth of MBS's depravity was not known at that time. It is now fully known. And Trump does nothing.
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@Avatar A full congressional hearing must be brought by Democrats to investigate any type of financials between Senior advisor Kushner, his family and third party interests as well as Trump between Saudi Arabia via Israel and shady off shore accounts!
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A barbaric gangster regime. We should stop supporting them.
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@BR Which gangster regime are you referring to?
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@JAB:
Both. . .
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@JAB That's not a nice thing to say
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Having read this, I can understand why the intelligence officials in Washington wanted to prevent Jared Kushner from receiving top-secret clearances. However, knowing how much Trump admires authoritarian leaders such as M.B.S., I can also understand why he overruled those officials and gave Kushner clearances.
I wish Representative Cummings all the best as he tries to find the back story to this inexcusable decision.
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