I never understood the idea of embalming.
1
As a volunteer at Woodlawn (and only speaking for myself) and a graduate student at Fordham , doing a thesis based at Woodlawn, I heartily recommend walking thrugh the fascinating groinds. I find especially interesting to walk through plots not only of the rich and famous (Woodlawn has a great many-well worth seeing) but to also add in visits to those plots of the less than rich and famous.
I always find out new facts and fascinating stories walking the cemetery (not in Covid 19 times, of course). Makes for a teriffic Sunday outing.
1
If you want to get a closer look at the financially advantageous death business, get a look (online or otherwise) at Jessica Mitford's still-relevant 1963 best seller, The American Way of Death."
1
Cremation into a cardboard box, then sneak to the top of a tall building and gently let the spirit waft into the wind and down onto the city.
Burial?
Green burial?
Cremation?
Crypts?
Laser-etched tombstones?
All old hat solutions to a perennial problem.
Soylent Green is the way to go
- quite literally.
In any case cemeteries are for the living,
not for the dead.
It’s where we grieve for ourselves,
for our loss.
It’s where we temporary survivors impotently rail at the very existence of death itself, to no avail.
Whenever I drive across the Kosciusko bridge on the Queens-Brooklyn border, I take can’t help but take note of the hazy slew of Manhattan skyscrapers in the background, as they mimic the shapes and echo the forms of acres & acres of cemetery tombstones in the foreground. It’s quite a sight. To my mind, as I speed by, it all blends together in a blurred memento mori tableau, a metaphor for the fleeting nature of our lives, our strivings, our vanity & our civilization.
6
@Stan Chaz not sure whether to laugh or cringe that the first comment I see on this article suggest we eat the dead instead of bury them...SOYLENT GREEN IS...PEOPLE!
1
won't need an address after I'm dead...
3
"...'green burials,'which forgo embalming, metal caskets and cement or metal liners in the earth, in favor of biodegradable coffins or shrouds."
Also known as a Jewish burial and, I think, a Muslim burial.
8
@Yiddishamama, the last time I attended a Jewish funeral (last summer), a concrete grave liner was required - county code, I think.
1
Yep! And in israel no coffin at all. Just wrapped in a shroud and given to the earth.
2
Those headstone etched with the photos of the deceased look nice.
Could n't the reporter find another example than the disreputable Boss Tweed?
2
No one should be allowed to take up space after they have died. I support mandatory cremation.
2
What's the environmental impact / carbon footprint of roasting and burning an adult human body and of scattered ashes or the manufacture, distribution, sale, and storage of urns?
Personally, I prefer simple cotton or other plant-based shrouds (cloth covering) and in-ground burial without embalming.
12
Cemeteries, much like religion itself, needs to go the way of the Dodo. The sooner the better. What a waste of space and resources. Cremation should be law for everyone.
2
Sky burial or bird burial is the way to go. Google it.
2
@anna magnani
This is hardcore... Which mountaintop? Skyscraper?
Did I miss Moravian Cemetery on Staten Island?
4
Since the author neglected to mention this in her article:
Calvary Cemetery is a Roman Catholic cemetery in Maspeth and Woodside, Queens. With about 3 million burials, it has the largest number of interments of any cemetery in the United States; it is also one of the oldest cemeteries in the United States. It covers 365 acres and is owned by the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of New York and managed by the Trustees of St. Patrick's Cathedral.
7
Baffling what people find important. Thousands of dollars for a gravesite? It's status seeking for sure. My dad was a gravedigger and owner of a funeral "service," later the boss at Iowa City's municipal cemetery. He had zero loyalty to costly funerals and gavesites. He and my mother donated their bodies to the medical school and were cremated. I dug some graves myself and a few times helped "disinter" a body of a person whose descendants wanted their loved one's remains to be buried in a more suitable spot. Not pretty. A reminder that dead people are dead; they are gone and have no appreciation of the attractions of prestige and scenic beauty that are important to the living.
4
I'm going to donate my body to science, with the wish that my remains be cremated and given back to my family. I've also asked my brother-in-law to roll me up with some choice weed and smoke me.
6
As a veteran , I already have a place to go... for free!
1
Except that it is not free. Tax dollars pay for it, and your contribution to the nation's safety earned it.
3
My sister died in 1990 at 28. She is buried in a single plot in queens. I want to buy the empty plot next to her for my mom but it is owned by a defunct organization. I wish I knew how to proceed.
7
My mother opted for burial at the cemetery affiliated with her parish church. She had been a member for decades. It was truly wonderful that she planned for her burial and made her own arrangements. All that was needed was the funeral home when she died. We went with the one the family used when her own mother died.
5
Curious that there is no mention of Calvary, which I believe is the largest in the city with something like 3 million served, including including my grandparents and a kazillion Irish immigrant ancestors who came to the big onion and stayed forever.
I like visiting all of their graves, saying a prayer, leaving a flower or a stone, and moving on with my day. Those visits remind me that others walked these streets before me, saw all the sights Walt Whitman talks about -- the Brooklyn Ferry, the 12th month gulls, etc. -- and that still others will come after. To be part of a continuim seems to me a good thing.
That said, on this St. Patrick's Day eve, I am reminded not of a New Yorker (though his dad lived here a while) but an Irishman: William Butler Yeats, who took pains in his lovely Poem Under Ben Bulben to remind us that:
Many times man lives and dies
Between his two eternities,
That of race and that of soul,
And ancient Ireland knew it all.
Whether man dies in his bed
Or the rifle knocks him dead,
A brief parting from those dear
Is the worst man has to fear.
Though grave-diggers' toil is long,
Sharp their spades, their muscle strong,
They but thrust their buried men
Back in the human mind again.
4
New York City did not ban burials in Manhattan in the 1800s. The city passed Sanitary Codes prohibiting new burial grounds from opening in Manhattan. Burials at cemeteries which opened before 1860 continue today.
Additionally, burials on public land are untitled and graves can be recycled. There is a shortage of space for titled graves in private cemeteries. However, there is an abundance of space on Hart Island for future burials where graves have long been reused and these natural burials are much better for the environment than cremation.
Every New Yorker already owns burial space. With new legislation to transfer jurisdiction, their gravesite will soon be parkland.
5
@Melinda Hunt
Many compliments to Ms. Hunt for advocating inexpensive and natural (Green) burials on Hart Island and other public lands.
6
What does the cemetery provide? It is the paradigmatic heterotopia, or other space, that provides a contrast to the space occupied by the living. Without contrasts, none of our cultural beliefs have any validity. Not utopian or dystopian, but other. And Foucault’s most incisive heterotopia: the mirror. In it we see that place of otherness where we are reflexively absented, the virtual image that everyone relies on to form their image in the space we cannot absent ourselves from. These ideas in large part, I believe, supplant the notion of sacred and profane spaces. There is nothing really sacred about the cemetery, it’s just another component of society’s control over everything you do and think.
1
I grew up in Newark NJ, near Mount Pleasant Cemetery. As a kid, I walked by it four times a day to and from school. It is the nicest thing in the neighborhood, with fancy monuments of all sizes and styles. A grave there costs $2000, and I am thinking about it. There is already a grave for me in a family plot in Worcester Massachusetts, but then I cannot imagine spending eternity with my parents.
The third, and most likely, final disposition of my remains will be in one of the small rural cemeteries in my Vermont town. It has a number of graves over 200 years old, and from the cemetery you can see 40 miles on a clear day. But if you are a permanent resident, you would need a periscope. The best part, graves run $200 each.
I intend to be cremated, but not scattered, as I would like to leave a witty headstone behind. Something like
"His entire life he was in the dark....
And still is."
23
WHAT A GREAT ARTICLE.
I HAVE BEEN PRE-PLANNING SO MY CHILDREN WILL NOT HAVE TO DO ALL THE WORK.
WOODLAWN IS THE HOME OF SOME OF THE ROSE FAMILY SINCE 1902. TODAYS OPTION MAY BE CREMATION SO MORE FAMILY MEMBERS COULD USE THE SAME MAUSOLEUM.
SINCE THE COST OF A HOTEL IS SO HIGH, I ASKED IF I COULD SLEEP ON THE FLOOR OF THE FAMILY MAUSOLEUM. . . THE ANSWER WAS NO.
WOODLAWN STILL REMAINS HIGH ON THE LIST FOR CREMATION REMAINS.
THANK YOU FOR THE ARTICLE.
2
Note the similar characteristics of cemeteries and golf courses. pricing might vary with being in the rough or or the 18th green. At least one pun come to mind; have fun.
1
@Bill R Both are a waste of space and should be outlawed.
Do people still want to be buried? Everyone I know wants to be cremated and scattered!
14
Cremation is forbidden by some religions and may be repugnant to many people, especially survivors and descendants of survivors of the Holocaust, in which many Jewish people were cremated (against Jewish tradition) and, reportedly, some Jewish people were alive when forced into the crematory oven. Similarly, families who lost someone(s) to a fire, and people who were in a fire themselves understandably want to avoid cremation.
7
Wait, the word status does not appear one time in this article? Seriously, the word status does not appear one time in this article. You do actually know that funerals are for the living, right? You do know that the dead really aren't there? Funerals are, of course, all about the living even when it's the living decedent who sets the whole thing up. Why do people spend money on the dead, because there the only ones who can, the dead are dead. So please rewrite this article from the correct perspective. Status.
1
Just status?
I think not.
Funerals serve a purpose. They always have even among the poorest of us.
4
Great story. Mausoleums just don't cut it for me they look really tacky. I love to run in cemeteries and some of the ones I have run in in the south have huge mausoleums. Everything about them is cheap and tacky including the stains on them from the bodies exploding under pressure in the caskets. This is very common. I think cremation and burial in a cemetery is the way to go. Not enough land left, too much money and if anyone knew what happens to a casket buried in a vault in a wet cemetery, they would never want to be buried.
4
You left out Holy Cross Cemetery in Bklyn.
6
Tree burial. Better for everyone, esp the planet. All that money can go to helping people in need, to solve problems, to do good.
13
Oh my goodness! The decadent pleasure of mingling with the rich and famous, elbow to elbow, cheek to cheek, and worm to worm! It’s certainly ... well, food for thought!
8
Ridiculous. The entire earth would be covered in gravestones if we honored every death.
9
Time to dig up grandpa and sell his plot so the grandkids can pay for college!
20
I've always thought of cemeteries as wasted space.
Ashes to ashes.
Move on.
15
Tell that to the ancient Greeks for whom their ancestors' bones were sacred.
True, most modern Greek villagers recycle graves, exhuming bones with tenderness and an appropriate religious service and placing them in wooden boxes to be stacked in a structure adjacent to the church.
I am looking forward to cremation, but until then I will tend to my family's plot in Maspeth. The spring bulbs and late-summer hostas occasionally need a boost, the summer annuals some deadheading, the foot stones some brushing. Christmas sees a wreath and boughs at the monument's base.
Everyone but me is there. It is indeed sacred ground.
8
I only realized how serious this cemetery real estate business was when a classmate of mine who graduated at the top of the class from NYU Stern and whose first job was at a prestigious management consulting firm with almost twice the salary of everyone else in the class, has recently become an EVP of finance for a national conglomerate which deals with such real estate.
1
We just buried my mother in LI for under $2000 for the plot. These figures seem quite skewed to me. And people have to be buried in Manhattan in a crypt that looks more luxurious than some apartments? It sounds like yet another scam for wealthy people who don't know what to do with their money, that could be better spent in some charitable way to help the living who really need it.
6
Burial plots- the ultimate act of denial after a life filled with belief in the promise of an afterlife.
Upon information and belief, when you're dead, you're dead. You really won't care who's buried next to you, and you won't matter very much to them, either (Spoon River Anthology notwithstanding). The view from 6 feet under is pretty much the same everywhere.
You might as well be cremated, or have your body turned to mulch so at least it will do a plant some good. Better yet, be an organ donor, and/or will your body to science, to train the next generation of healers.
And remember- in 2 generations, anyone who has ever known you will also be dead. Putting up a monument for their benefit is therefore a waste of time. In just a few years, most people who see it won't have the slightest idea who you were.
Still on the fence? If there really IS an afterlife, surely it wasn't created just for you to spend eternity cooped up in an expensive box. So either way, you're wasting your time and money. Time to cast off the shackles of the superstitious past and think for yourself.
14
@alexander hamilton: Aw, you oughta know better than to say those things, given how many people make the trip to see your grave in downtown Manhattan!
PS: You have no idea how hard it is to "will your body to science" - it requires a lot of paperwork & pre-approval, completed long before you leave this mortal coil.
3
@ alexander hamilton
Please see my comments above.
Also, you are incorrect that in just 2 generations everyone who knew a given individual will be dead as well. There are families with four or five living generations (i.e., great-great grandparents still alive); and there are numerous ways to "know" someone and feel drawn to honor them.
Additionally, a "green" burial (which is how numerous cultures and subcultures, such as Jewish people, do it) IS essentially allowing oneself to become enrichment of the earth around one's body -- to eventually become earth -- from which plants may grow and thrive. Such burials served billions of our ancestors and their animal companions, without, it seems, much harm to
future generations. Burial, and even markers on burial sites, are not the problem. Contemporary practices of using chemical and other preservatives in the deceased's body and/or coffin or other burial objects are. As are chemicals used for and/or released by cremation.
1
If you "will your body to science" in order to train future generations, your body will likely be chemically preserved in order to stop or slow the natural process of decomposition. The toxicity of those chemicals probably aren't much different from those used in modern embalming. Therefore, while donating one's body so that it may be used for the common good of advancing scientific/medical knowledge may be noble, it still results in releasing toxic or hazardous material/gassed into our earth, water, and/or air. Including, most likely, during cremation.
With apologies to Marvell.
"The grave’s a fine and private place,
But none, I think, do there embrace..."
6
@J Milovich great book that makes use of that quote...about life in a cemetery.....https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Fine_and_Private_Place.
Bulldozer the cemeteries and turn them into parks. Alternatively, remove tombstones greater than 100 years old, so you can recycle the plots. Place memorable ones in a tombstone museum. Of course, cremation is another good choice.
1
@Quinn: Are you suggesting bulldozing Arlington National Cemetery? Just curious.
1
Some of us feel quite interconnected with our predecessors, even ones we did not know personally or met as a young children. Some of us need a physical touchstone (double meaning intended) to facilitate and maintain our healing from loss, our ongoing relationship with the deceased, and our sense of belonging to something greater than ourselves.
You may not feel it (or feel it yet), but that need is not weakness or lack of imagination. It is basic and ancient and may even exist in other animals (e.g., elephants -- a basis for the association of elephants with long memories).
Also, for a variety of entirely valid reasons, some people and some families may feel repulsed by cremation. Some traditions forbid it (while others require it) of their adherents.
So, personally, I wouldn't say it's mere vanity and selfishness that motivate people to want their family or beloved community to remember them, but also a certain generosity toward one's survivors and descendants, for whom the memory of and tangible connection to you may be a life-preserving blessing.
2
@Another Human Being
As someone who has always leaned towards not taking up the space, I appreciate this food for thought.
Stop wasting land on the dead! Once you are gone, it does not matter what happens to your body. In this day and age your loved ones may not live close enough or may not have the time to visit your Mausoleum, Tombstone or Grave and strangers do not care. You can have an obituary on the internet and your memory can stay there for ever at very little cost. At least your loved ones can visit your mausoleum on the internet and relive the memories whenever they remember you. If anything, you will be remembered for your deeds during your life so make sure you get those right.
6
@Rahul: So, how many of your deceased family members have you had disinterred? Think of the money you could make re-selling the grave sites.
1
For some reason, perhaps because of St Patrick's Day, reading this article made me think of "What Then?" by WB Yeats:
His chosen comrades thought at school
He must grow a famous man;
He thought the same and lived by rule,
All his twenties crammed with toil;
'What then?' sang Plato's ghost. 'What then?'
Everything he wrote was read,
After certain years he won
Sufficient money for his need,
Friends that have been friends indeed;
'What then?' sang Plato's ghost. ' What then?'
All his happier dreams came true -
A small old house, wife, daughter, son,
Grounds where plum and cabbage grew,
poets and Wits about him drew;
'What then.?' sang Plato's ghost. 'What then?'
The work is done,' grown old he thought,
'According to my boyish plan;
Let the fools rage, I swerved in naught,
Something to perfection brought';
But louder sang that ghost, 'What then?'
3
Very informative artice. Interesting though thst no mention of the vast number of Catholic Cemeteries...Mt. St. Marys, Calvary, St. John’s etc. cemeteries. Many famous people buried at these historic cemeteries.
3
Urban cemeteries are a waste of space, as well as toxic with embalming chemicals and other materials that would not otherwise be allowed to be buried
I myself don’t care if I’m put out with the trash when it’s my time, either way my atoms will be released back to the universe from which they came.
2
Nah, you just have to go vertical. Get the oil rig drillers in there and shoot a several hundred ft hole. You pay for your final resting place based upon the diameter of the hole necessary to put you away. If you are a bit overweight a vacuum pump may assist fitting you into a smaller diameter plastic tube. Once in the tube (casket) they cap the ends & they drop you in the hole. Done and done. Maximizes resources, saves space and solves the urban density problem. Urban planners should take note!
2
@Jack Frederick No more plastic in our waterways! Otherwise, something decomposable would make this work well. The new reef building structures for remains actually benefit coral & other sealife.
I had the honor of visiting the American Cemetery near Cambridge, England. It was late in the afternoon and the bells in the carillon were ringing softly. The lines of crosses mixed with stars was impressive but most poignant was the wall of those Americans who perished, mostly in aircraft, but were never found. Among the names were Joseph P. Kennedy, Jr. and Alden "Glenn" Miller. Located along a country road, it is a very worthwhile stop as one tours that part of England.
18
@Martha MacC I would recommend any of the American Cemeteries located overseas. Last year mom and I were at the cemetery at Normandy the day after Memorial Day. The day was foggy and overcast, much like 6 June 1944. Of note were were the numerous student groups paying respects with horsing around or the taking of selfies.
4
@Chuckw The last sentence should read ... with no horsing around or taking of selfies.
1
When I was a child we periodically went "to the cemetary," The Evergreens, to visit my grandfather's grave. We said a prayer, and while my grandmother, aunt, and mother planted and tended, my sister and I wandered around looking at gravestones and peering into mausoleums. I always thought it was a beautiful, but melancholic place. A vivid memory at about age 8 or 9 was reading a gravestone that listed seven children in a family, all of whom had died by the age of 12.
My great-grandfather bought a giant plot at St Mary's (Mount St Mary's?) and someday my mom will be the 25th and last one put there, filling that up.
Medical students will carve me up, and what's left group-cremated. Before coming to that decision, I suggested that after leaving the crematorium w/ my ashes, the car door be cracked open and the ashes allowed to flutter along the highway's edge. Then there was the "drop them in a little babbling brook" w/ the thought that eventually I'd end up in the sea. Then out in the woods to nurture a future forest. It's all just vanity.
It seems that more and more we are coming to a place where corporeal remains after death are not something to obsess over.
7
My grandparents, aunts and uncles and others long gone are buried in cemeteries where their children, spouses and other family members would visit the grave site from time to time. Maybe on a birthday, or a special holiday. There is something special about that. There is also something almost profound if you have an opportunity to walk through a cemetery where there are headstones dating back to the birth of our country ( and in Europe many years before that). It's as though you can almost feel the history as you think about what the ground you are standing on must have looked like back then. But today, people are more transient. The younger less apt to visit their ancestor's graves even if they live close enough to do so. I will be breaking that pattern of my parents and family. Cremation, scatter the ashes unless someone in my family wants to hold some for a time. That seems more sensible in this day and age at least for me.
3
The great Bill Bryson wrote about an English hamlet churchyard so brimming with centuries of dead, the ground and remains rose up around the church. Why subject future generations to that sight!
My money is on Eternal Reefs, an outfit that fashions reefs for sea life from Florida to Hawaii, adding human ashes and name plates to cast reefs and marking the nautical spot via GPS.
As a productive citizen of the 21st Century, I like the idea of being useful, even in death, and of offering an alluring vacation spot to draw kin willing to don snorkeling or scuba gear to visit my remains. The skittish could just rent a boat and stop the engines above the reef.
I call it destination funerals. For once, I can do something that doesn’t muck up the planet.
4
Isn't the business of death just fascinating? I love to walk around cemeteries and see how people choose to be remembered or choose to remember loved ones.
6
In the early part of the 20th century, my grandfather bought a very large family plot in a beautiful non-denominational cemetery in lower Westchester County. The view of the Hudson is stunning and the grounds are beautiful. We now have five grave sites that we will never use and have inquired as to whether we can sell them. We have been told no but according to this article, it is a possibility. Does anyone know the answer? The buyers would be in excellent company too.
4
@Martha MacC
The rules vary, with each cemetery having it's own guidelines. Most will buy back plots, but only at the original price and w/o any adjustment for inflation. Privately reselling plots is usually not allowed to discourage the kind of morbid speculative buying some have mentioned in other comments.
2
@Martha MacC
Read section 1513 of the NYS Not-for-Profit Corporation Law, which governs resales of MOST cemetery plots in New York. The cemetery has the right of first refusal, and their price is determined by the original selling price plus a low rate of interest.
If they refuse, there are a few ways to dispose of your plot on the resale market. I recently purchased a plot on Craigslist. In the end it was a good transaction, but buyer and seller were both nervous about getting scammed. eBay might be a safer way to go and the prices tend to be higher than on CL. There are also resale brokers who can help find a buyer and handle the paperwork, though I couldn’t guess how to find a reputable one. Good luck!
1
@AnneWhoo Thank you for your information. I hope the ability to sell applies to those of us with one large family plot that still has space left - lots of it. I will have to check the deed to see if each grave site was individually purchased. That would make it easier. How did your seller determine a fair price, if you know?
My husband and a longtime friend checked out a burial site some 20 years ago. The cost for the little mausoleum was $250K and the site was $250K. His wife was excited. The sales person was emphasizing the beautiful view one had from this particular location. This whole scenario did not sit well with my husband.
1
We can't keep putting people in the ground indefinitely. I think we are approaching a point where the city should pass an ordinance setting a date after which in ground burial will no longer be allowed and restricting above ground interment to cremains. Those who have already purchased plots should be grandfathered as exceptions.
Yes, I do understand that there are some people for whom cremation is not an option for religious reasons. But that represents a small and shrinking minority. Most Muslims and some of the more conservative Jewish sects do not allow cremation. But among Christians where cremation was once almost universally banned, almost all now accept it. Even the Roman Catholics allow it. Only the Greek Orthodox still prohibit cremation.
For those who still insist on in ground burial I suggest following the example of San Francisco and establishing some kind of burial ground outside the city in a sparsely populated area. The city of Colma in California has been accepting the dead from the Bay Area for almost a hundred years and is now our country's only true necropolis.
7
@John C. - You recommend establishing a burial ground in a sparsely populated area outside the city.
But that's what New York did in the 19th century. The area was called Brooklyn.
28
Cremation should be made mandatory in most big cities. Influence of religion must be reduced if any country wants to prosper as religious faith mostly create problems for making sensible public policy and affect politics the most.
10
@bonku: Are you aware of the environmental effects of the actual cremation process? Maybe you should look it up.
5
The carbon footprint of cremation is enormous. Go for a green burial.
7
My family has had since around 1960 a nice corner property in a cemetery in Maspeth.
Over the years our large tree grew old and died and was replaced by a forsythia. The once-tiny Pieris Japonicas have grown tall. The flower bed beneath the large monument, at first immaculately tended, has become a sort of perennial garden: spring bulbs, then hostas, with pine boughs and a wreath laid for Christmas.
In the meantime, the number of foot stones has grown considerably.
There's enough room for everyone, including the urns of a couple of cats.
I'd also like to be cremated.
8
My family has a sizable plot in All Faiths in Queens. However, when my German Lutheran great grandfather bought this last chunk of real estate in 1888, it was called Lutheran Cemetery. Having a sense of what the family was about, I think they were not banking on being surrounded by non-Lutherans! What are you going to do!?
9
I have three plots in Lutheran (I reject the All Faiths name), one dating from the late 1850's, two in Calvary and four in St. John.
Oh the choices on where to rest my weary bones.
4
So, instead of stocks or conventional real estate, investment in THIS extremely limited real estate, where location really is everything, would really have paid off over the last 10- 20 years!
6
That's what it would seem. But you cannot sell your crypt to anyone. You can only sell it back to the cemetery, basically return it. You won't get the current, going rate.
2