Christchurch Mosque Shootings Were Partly Streamed on Facebook

Mar 14, 2019 · 456 comments
Robert (Seattle)
The suspect was inspired by this list of exemplary individuals: Mr. Trump, Dylan Roof, Anders Breivik, David Lane. According to the FBI, right wing white supremacists--that is, extreme white nationalists--have perpetrated most of the terrorist acts on American soil since 9/11. And yet today Trump has said that he does not see them as a threat. How can we not impeach such a person who defends white supremacists and slyly welcomes them into his Trump McConnell Republican party?
Stefan (Klagenfurt, Austria)
Just finished reading James Bridle's New Dark Age a few days ago. Chilling. Especially the part about YouTube's algorithms. Personally I have decided to use YT as little as possible and unsubscribed from Premium a while ago. While I have already deleted my FB/Twitter/Instagram accounts I also plan to terminate my LinkedIn profile. Social media has evolved into antisocial media and it really represents and amplifies deeper issues within our societies. The only thing that is going to hurt those companies is when people stop using them. FB already is in a sort of downfall, but newer "hype" apps take its place and serve as platforms for narcissistic self-installment. My kids are still young but I will do my best to keep them away from these future platforms while hiking around the local forest with them or watching the stars.
Jocelyn (Nyc)
Turn off your phones. Close your FB accounts. Reach out and really touch someone and have a real conversation.
Roslan (Nj)
After so many years of right wing media propagating fear mongering of Muslim and islamaphobia, it is just a matter of time of this terrorist act to happen. These right wing media (e.g. Fox New) needs to be condemned and exposed as the enabler for these attacks. The right wing media will start spewing hatred on minorities and people of other religions once the anger subsides.
AE (France)
I urge all actors in the book trade -- publishers, wholesalers, bookshops and librairies -- to cease the distribution and sale of the French 'thinker' Renaud Camus' writings from on. The Australian gunman in Christchurch voiced his enthusiasm for Camus' putrid racist theories of 'population replacement' in Europe and other bits of insanity showing support and nostalgia for Third Reich ideology. Any other position towards Camus smacks of complacency towards the neo-Nazi criminals out there in the world.
Kaari (Madison WI)
Yet Facebook often blocks me, when I have posted a photo of a frightened shelter dog in need of rescue, saying my post is "in violation of community standards". Obviously there are a lot of incompetent employees at Facebook.
LC Walker (Fort Hood Tx)
The guy is not praising Trump in his manifesto.
Robert (Seattle)
@LC Walker Nonsense. The terrorist suspect "... hailed President Trump, mocking his leadership skills but calling him 'a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose.' " He praised Trump for his anti-immigrant actions (which are, of course, based on lies, racism and fear). Trump returned the favor today when he said that white nationalism is not a problem.
ALN (USA)
Social Media like Facebook gives these terrorists platform to spew hatred and tout white supremacy. Social media cost us the elections, social media is used to spread hatred and broadcast killings of innocent people in their place of worship. Facebook and Instragram is making people narcissists , it is giving an avenue for people to sit in the comforts of their homes and instigate violence and cause mayhem. What will it take for Facebook to take responsibility and the justice department to penalize them?
Wayne (Brooklyn, New York)
How can someone go from one country where such weapons are banned to another where they are allowed and make those purchases without any suspicion?
AE (France)
@Wayne In addition, questions are being raised about the exceedingly long delay for EMT units to arrive on the scene of the massacre. A full twenty minutes ! to reach a site located in the heart of Christchurch.
Wayne (Brooklyn, New York)
@AE that's amazing. Here in NYC ambulances are on the scene in a few minutes. That man should have never been allowed to have those guns. On another point usually people immigrate from New Zealand to Australia because Australia is where the jobs are. So suspicion should have been raised someone from Australia going to New Zealand that lacks the good jobs in Australia.
Colin McKerlie (Sydney)
Presumably, teary-eyed Jacinta will be announcing tomorrow that all semi-automatic weapons are banned in New Zealand - following Australia's eminently sane example. There should be no compensation - the desire to own a weapon specifically designed to kill people is clear indication of serious mental problems - and failure to comply with the new ban should be punished by life imprisonment and forfeiture of all assets. It will happen in New Zealand because they live in Australia's shadow and there are enough sensible New Zealanders who will now scream bloody murder - appropriately - because this step was not taken when Australia led the way in 1996. The point is that the nutjob who committed this atrocity went to New Zealand because he could not have done it here in Australia. So one more advanced nation will set the example of sanity and thereby highlight the deep, deep and awful insanity which is such a feature of the culture of the United States. The reason these people want to own assault weapons is that that fantasise about murdering people - that is the only reason anyone would ever want to own such a weapon. In America, they don't just want to murder people, they plan on murdering any law enforcement official who tries to enforce a reasonable ban on assault weapons - they live their lives planning heavily armed rebellion - so many rebels wanting to play out a civil war fantasy. These people are scum. And if you don't publish this comment, you own the next massacre.
Ancient (Western New York)
"the desire to own a weapon specifically designed to kill people is clear indication of serious mental problems"? I know a woman of small stature who keeps a so-called "assault rifle" to deal with the occasional predator which threatens her goats. It just happened to fit her frame better than other styles of rifles. I'm sure she's not suffering from any type of mental illness, other than a serious addiction to chocolate.
Duncan Lennox (Canada)
I hope NZ finds a way to successfully sue the gun manufacturer(s) who made the guns involved and the seller of the guns. Drive these organizations/shops out of business.
Terri McLemore (St. Petersburg, Fl.)
Until today most of what I knew about Christchurch was based on how the city and its citizens recovered from a devastating earthquake with grit, determination, and great ingenuity. We will be visiting there next summer, and I have no doubt that once again the people of Christchurch will be showing the way forward after this horrific tragedy-with the same grit and strong sense of community!
Jack Shultz (Pointe Claire Que. Canada)
When I heard of the latest attrocity in Christchurch my first thought to worry at how this cancer of hatred has spread to every nook and cranny of the globe. It seems to me that if global climate change doesn’t destroy us, this spreading cancer in global body politic will.
Ma (Atl)
This is such a tragedy it's hard to find words. I hope it brings about changes in the way that FB, Youtube and other streaming apps are allowed to run. There should be a moratorium on 'real-time' posting of any video, everywhere on the planet. The perpetrator was obviously looking for his 'moment' of glory, believing the world would watch and he'd be famous. It is the latter that these sickos are looking for as their sick minds seek someone or something to blame for where they sit in the world. Secondly, I'm equally disheartened to see the comments. Understand anger resulting from frustration and tragedy, it is part of the grieving process. However, Trump is basically held to blame. He has nothing to do with this. Anyone that thinks 2 years in office in the US creates these monsters is a lunatic. I'm not a Trump fan, did not vote for him, but I am astute enough to see this for what it is - a lunatic gets a gun, plans his 'starring role' via FB, and goes out and murders strangers in cold blood because they were worshiping in a mosque. The NYTimes should do a better job of reining in it's own hateful readers.
Gerithegreek518 (Kentucky)
#Ma I agree with your concern about social media streaming the real-time filming of the massacre in New Zealand. Streaming apps must be made to monitor what's being posted and filter such items out. I, however, disagree with your suggestion that NYT censor the comments of those of us who consider the spreading hatred of immigrants as related to Trump's political ranting. One of Donald Trump's obsessions is "his wall" to keep immigrants out of this country. The shooter referenced a desire to stir-up discord in the United States about 2nd amendment rights (as if we needed our discord "stirred-up"). His crime is not unlike others that have occurred here. He certainly could be following our lead—if this country leads the world in anything anymore, it is mass murders with guns. Trump's constant repetition of false statistics regarding the danger of immigrants, and lies about their intentions for wanting to come here is heard by countries other than this one. Fear and loathing can be contagious. We all must be mindful of what we say and do. Our nation prides itself on the freedom and rights of its citizens. We need to remember that we set examples for others.
DS (Montreal)
@Ma Doesn't help when Trump uses the word "invaders" to describe refugees and other immigrants -- he just used it again in his press conference on his veto, even though Trump knew about this massacre and that the killer apparently appreciated his invective -- these are facts not hateful comments, first hand, out of the horse's mouth.
LH (Beaver, OR)
It appears that the lead photo for this story plays into the hands of the “(c)onsider your man card reissued" marketing campaign by gun manufacturers. Not to diminish the story itself and the horror involved, editors could have done better than illustrating a firepower mentality even if it involves the police. Mentally ill people filled with hatred don't recognize the difference. There appears to be little difference between a soldier vs. cop wanna be today by people who are unfit for service. Guns are of course part of the problem but so are Hollywood producers and media editors who inadvertently encourage sick people to engage in violence in the name of some flag they carry.
Yoandel (Boston)
8chan and Facebook, as well as other online media that provides harbor to these monstrous and murderous ideologues and terrorists should be heavily penalized including multimillion fines if not even pushed offline till they implement changes that prevent this hatred and violence to be posted. The perpetrators were well known for their radical supremacist views —any content they posted should have been screened by moderators before it could be presented by the platforms. There is no excuse for any of the horrible content to be allowed to be automatically uploaded and distributed. These platforms might very well share responsibility for these henious acts.
Don't make Albert Einstein or Ibn Sina (pilot so many souls early to heaven)
Those who bring up stuff like the Bowling Green Massacre or 'last night in Sweden' to lend substance to their talking points, will avoid at all costs to take their share of the responsibility for actual tragedies underpinned and incited by right-wing, white supremacist thought, policies, and propaganda: e.g. Utoya, Charleston, Quebec, Parkland, Pittsburgh, the killing of Heather Heyer, the death of an 7-year old Guatemalan girl and an 8-year old boy in custody, the pipe-bombs, and now the Christchurch Massacre. Refusal to own up is strong with the Make Atrocity Glee Ascendant crowd. As with Islamic extremist violence the roots lie in a primitivity overhang promoting violent vengeance in the foundational texts our religions have declared sacred, an overhang that doesn't get reflected, recanted, apologized for, let alone rooted out. Instead it keeps reverberating sanctified throughout the religious echo chambers straight to the far out, dark corners. We see church leadership, GOP leadership, and media rantership emblazing and emboldening the fires of hatred and sanctimonious, Mike-Pence-level bigotry. Like with Boeing's planes falling out of the sky forced by faux lines in its software programming, we need to remove the wrong, fatal programming. Alas nobody will ground the hate mosque of all, FoxNews, nor its internet offshoots fostered by Facebook etc., until they got reprogrammed. As a result many more active shooters will fall out of that hate sky. Very stupid. Very sad.
Ethan (New York)
You may want to read the manifesto before assigning ideals. If you had it is easy to see that he disliked all msm. It also highlighted that he chose to use guns and Target mosques for the way they polarize our society.
Barbara Holtzman (Middletown, New York)
@Ethan "he chose to use guns" to add to the 2nd Amendment argument in the US and sow discord. The tone of your post is that the murderer had some justification for what he did. I assure you that he did not.
Stephanie (Earth)
Mosques, places or worship and prayer, polarize our society? Really? Do explain.
Wally Wolf (Texas)
My heartfelt sympathies and condolences go out to your great country. Trumpism has become synonymous with Cancer and it has spread to New Zealand.
Judith Stirling (Texas, USA)
@Wally Wolf I am an American in Texas. Trump is the most awful individual ever to represent the United States. YES, Trump is the cause of much animosity and hate in the US and in other countries. The world watches the US and models itself after us. Anyone that refuses to realize that Trump has started a Cancer in the world for hate and white supremacy is naive, period.
Alice's Restaurant (PB San Diego)
The man's mental state aside, culturally forced tolerance in Western democracies for a religious ideology based on the adherence to Shariah, whether it's in the Middle East or benign New Zealand, that is contrary to natural rights and freedoms will continue to create such events. That's a fact despite all the mass-media drumming to the contrary. More to the point, shutting down, as the cultural Marxist wish to do, open debate in the public square will change nothing, save drive the issue underground where it will continue to fester and then reemerge again as it has here.
Patty O (deltona)
@Alice's Restaurant Absolute nonsense. So you're saying that Muslims and Christians can't live together without trying to kill each other? Are you suggesting that getting all Muslims out of western democracies is more favorable than getting rid of the nutjobs that want to kill everyone? Please respond.
Alice's Restaurant (PB San Diego)
@Patty O Fair enough: What I'm saying is that, as Tocqueville pointed out some time ago, Shariah and Western democratic traditions are not compatible and cannot exist side-by-side. One, Islam, is a one-stop shop religious-political system driven by imams and clerics based on the adherence of Shariah, while the other is based on natural rights and freedoms sans religion, e.g., Bill of Rights, constitutional government. There is no Islam 2.0 for Western democracies--it is as it always was.
Patty O (deltona)
@Alice's Restaurant If you follow tenants of all the major religions, you have the same problem. I could put up a rather large list of biblical quotes, old and new, that are in direct opposition to our Constitution. But I'm not advocating the removal of all Christians and Jews. Because, as in most religions, the participants follow what they find most appealing in their religion and ignore the rest. The difference of how extremists define Sharia and how moderate Muslims define it is pretty different. And attacking moderate, peaceful Muslims only serves to create more extremists. As an atheist, I find all religions equally ridiculous. However, I have nothing against those to chose to practice it. Extremists are the ones that we have to fight against, regardless of what religion they follow.
Ahmed (New York City)
I denounce the shootings in the strongest terms. It was reported that the shooter was inspired by President Trump. Clearly Trump is encouraging religious and racial violence everywhere. Which should be used as another article for Impeachment. Giuliani accused a blind Muslim cleric of inspiring a group of Muslims arrested regarding the first World Trade Center bombing. He said although nothing pointed to the cleric, somehow his preaching persuaded those apprehended to carry out the attack. By such logic President is guilty. We should all remove Trump as the leader of our nation.
petey tonei (Ma)
@Ahmed, Giuliani is clearly a mischief maker.
MomT (Massachusetts)
Yeah, Facebook has made "the world more open and connected” but not in the way they intended it to be. Unanticipated consequences of the connectivity that there is no way to control. This is horrifying, in a country where the entire population is about the same as metro Boston. I heard on the BBC interviews with two people that survived (one in one of the mosques and a woman who was driving by a mosque when the shootings happened) and they are victims as much as the people killed or injured. They will never feel safe and this will haunt them for a long time, perhaps the rest of their lives.
Par4me (AZ)
Another example of failed gun laws that do not work. Only the criminals will have them. And tragedy happens. As a Christian, I am praying for the families of the victims.
Colorado Lily (Rocky Mountain High)
@Par4me: They have indeed worked. Most years gun deaths have been down to single digits. I guess ignorance only sees what it wants to see.
Gregory (Dallas, TX)
@Par4me The 1990 shooting led to tightened gun laws, including restrictions on “military style semiautomatic weapons.” That's like stopping drunk drivers from running people over by stopping good drivers from driving their cars. You can't fix "stupid!"
Bill (New Zealand)
@Par4me As an American living in Christchurch, I can say the gun laws here do work. Horrible as this was, it was the first shooting of this kind since 1990. Despite its rosy reputation, NZ has a violent streak, including a serious domestic violence situation as well as suicide issue. Yet, you rarely hear of guns being a factor in crime, which I can assure you would up the death rate here significantly. Many of my friends own guns, yet they view the completely unregulated US system as bizarre and stupid. The only real question is how this type of gun was allowed in NZ. Please leave the nonsense NRA claptrap that is ruining my home country out of this.
WGM (Los Angeles)
I am Jewish from California and I stand with Muslims in solidarity against these killings.
Alice's Restaurant (PB San Diego)
@WGM How about in Gaza?
petey tonei (Ma)
@WGM, I am human and I stand with fellow humans.
Ethan (New York)
Nice! Way to root out their dual loyalty!
Scott Goldwyn (Woodstock NY)
The gunman’s “manifesto” credits trump for bringing back white pride. The fact that our president foments hatred and has influence over violent white nationalists is news. It should have been mentioned in the story.
Greater Metropolitan Area (Just far enough from the big city)
@Scott Goldwyn Every former President would be appalled beyond belief by this behavior, not to mention the living ones, or most of them.
Mary (Atlanta)
@Scott Goldwyn what do you mean it should have never been mentioned in the story? Which story?
Ancient (Western New York)
@Mary You're asking Scott Goldwyn about something he did not say.
UTBG (Denver, CO)
The gun culture in the US stems from the end of the Civil War, when the violent rebellion of the Slave States was put down after 4 years. Southern Slave State Neo-Confederates started preaching about the Lost Cause against the Federal government. This was followed by a mythology that the reason for the 2nd Amendment was to maintain the instruments required for insurrection in the hands of the people. Now we have a bizarre population that worships guns, and racist hate.
Lilo (Michigan)
@UTBG But (1) that has nothing to with this terrorist attack in New Zealand, (2) 2nd Amendment fundamentalism predates the Civil War, (3) The American Revolution was kicked off at Concord and Lexington by privately equipped and armed militia, who were in part resisting a British attempt to confiscate weapons.
Ancient (Western New York)
@UTBG You meant to say "subculture". I own a few guns. I don't worship them any more than I worship my string trimmer or my dishwasher. Okay...maybe the dishwasher a little bit. But not the guns. You need to stop listening to inaccurate sources like Michael Bloomberg.
Jus' Me, NYT (Round Rock, TX)
@Ancient You don't worship them, that's as it should be. But you don't need to spend but a few minutes in America on this topic to know that tens of thousands of Americans worship their guns. I wonder how many profess to be Christians and are told to put no other gods before "Him."
Zaquill (Morgantown)
Idiots have always been around and always will be. Sometimes technology gives them a new way to have an impact. You can blame guns, deeply ingrained racism, or migration, but the proximate cause is social media. The mass appeal of the Nazis and the indoctrination of an otherwise civilized country (Germany) was made possible by cheap press, radio and later by movies. Social media gives a forum to a range of ideologies and crazies that would otherwise be limited to isolated individuals, who would be instantly recognized as the outliers they are. This thing won't stop until social media gets a real grip on limiting extremism of all kinds.
Marie S (Portland, OR)
@Zaquill AND we do something about easy access to guns. It is most definitely also about the guns...
Colorado Lily (Rocky Mountain High)
@Zaquill: Funny, how you redirect attention from mass murder with guns to social media. Really good try but you ain't fooling me nor a lot of other wise people. High capacity magazines and AR-15's need not be available to civilian populations. Period.
Randall (Portland, OR)
@Zaquill No, the proximate cause is guns. Mass shootings and right-wing white supremacists murdering people have been going on for far longer than we've had social media.
Assay (New York)
Whether Facebook or Instagram or any other technological platform and device; we have to remember that they are tools at humanity’s disposal. The only way to overcome the hatred is through education and awareness. Not the kind that is just delivered in school by teachers to children but the kind that is exhibited through tolerance exhibited by adults. Our heartfelt condolences to loved ones of the victims and the nation of New Zealand.
IA (TX)
Really sad and heartbreaking news. New Zealand was the last place you would think this would happen. So should I call all white people terrorists now? Apply the same formula that’s been applied on Muslims in general? Definitely NO. Obviously that’s what these mentally brain-washed perpetrators want from both sides. Muslims have been dealing with these kinds of extremists since long and suffering. I hope people now see that extremists on both sides are same. Every single decent person need to come out strongly and speak against these kinds of terrorist attacks, wether on social media or any other platform.
Colorado Lily (Rocky Mountain High)
@IA: The White Nationalists/Supremacists are the most dangerous in our country.
James Barth (Beach Lake, Pa.)
The murdering white supremacist terrorist listed a number of white men who inspired his beliefs and actions. The most important figure within that list is President Donald Trump. The question remains, what are United States citizens, legislators and jurists going to do about it? Donald Trump has run off at the mouth and Twitter with racist and sexist comments and support for the racists and sexists, for the past three and a half years while running for President and while President. Both he and S.H. Sanders made conciliatory comments towards the victims, but those words are exceptionally meaningless, and it should be clear to everyone in the world that Trump inspires such violence. He is a major inciter of violence against Islamic worshippers, people of color, and women. Donald is a disgrace and should be publicly censured by everyone in the House and Senate, if not soon removed from office. The "bully" pulpit of POTUS should not be accessible to a hateful promoter of violent, racist, sexist, religionist ideology. The world has had more than enough of this disgraceful man, Donald Trump.
Colorado Lily (Rocky Mountain High)
@James Barth: from your mouth to God's ears.
Donna Read (California)
Let us call this what it is. Terrorism driven by a warped ideology
D B (BK)
I saw the video, The Police response time was terrible. That he was able to spend over 6 mins at the 1st Mosque firing away including on the street, then drive off to a 2nd crime scene while firing randomly at pedestrians is shocking to say the least.
AV (NYC)
@D B Shocking? Not surprising at all. When seconds count the Police are minutes away. It's not their fault, they can't be everywhere, but it is a testament to the fact that individuals and organizations need to provide a first line of defense.
Colorado Lily (Rocky Mountain High)
@AV: Mass shootings don't occur in other countries like ours does. Because it was so unusual in New Zealand, it probably added to the delay.
Chilawyer (Chicago)
@D B Ever seen a photo of a kiwi? (You'll never see a live one.) You can't expect a kiwi to fly at all, let alone soar like an eagle.
Wayne (Brooklyn, New York)
"Tarrant posted a 74-page manifesto explaining the reasons behind the shooting, which is New Zealand's worst ever terrorist attack, leaving 49 dead and 48 injured. In the document, Tarrant said that he supported President Donald Trump as a 'symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose' but not as a 'policy maker." https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6812653/Christchurch-shooter-supported-Trump-launched-attack-spark-civil-war-U-S-manifesto-says.html No surprise Trump is admired and has a cult following by white supremacists around the globe.
Martina (Chicago)
Two points: First, my sorrow and condolences for the families and friends of the dead and wounded and the great country of New Zealand. Second, for the perpetrators (and they include the hate-mongering incendiary propagandists Breitbart, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, Fox News, and the Murdock family that owns and orchestrates these hate mongering rabble, plus America's "stable genius" Donald Trump and his own inflammatory and divisive rallies, tweets, and reality tv antics), are you proud of the whirlwind of suffering and murder you have reaped?
AV (NYC)
@Martina Wow, I'm not a fan of Trump but blaming him for a hateful act in New Zealand is ridiculous. Please stop trying to score political points on the bodies of the innocent.
Patty O (deltona)
@AV Right. Sending thoughts and prayers is so much more useful.
Betsy (Portland)
@AV. The shooter praised US P45 (trump) in writing. Your comment is ridiculous.
Frank J Haydn (Washington DC)
Lots of comments here today blaming Mr. Trump for creating the conditions that led to this horrific event. Its ok to hate Mr. Trump; he is a divisive figure, heaven knows. But to say that his presidency is the cause of this sort of tragedy? Lots of people may fantasize about committing acts of suicidal violence. But only the most mentally ill actually do so. And Mr. Trump has nothing to do with them.
Greater Metropolitan Area (Just far enough from the big city)
@Frank J Haydn Nevertheless, over and over, they name him as an inspiration. What does it say about our country that we elected him and have not removed him?
Colorado Lily (Rocky Mountain High)
@Frank J Haydn: Foolish argument! If these mass murderers are stating that Trump was their inspiration, then for Lord's sake, it doesn't take more than that that Trump is the instigator.
Mary (Atlanta)
@Frank J Haydn President Trump is a serpentine that literally enjoys inviting chaos and hate, no matter how it is disguised. Nothing he has done has been for the highest good of all. And who are all these people that “fantasize about committing acts of suicidal violence?” I guess the ones that drink the koolaid and get INCITED by Trump. Please show me just one speech where he’s not been a promoter of hate and chaos.
Bill (Westchester County, NY)
Trump ended his condolence tweet on the New Zealand assassinations today with the words "God bless us all." I ask the community of New York Times readers to consider for themselves what exactly was meant by this. I contend that it is another intentional, if deviously subtle and deniable, expression of his position that there are "good people" on both sides of the divide that self-described white supremist, fascist shooter in New Zealand drew in his posted statements. I invite the community to offer other explanations for Trump's valediction.
Marie S (Portland, OR)
Donald Trump is complicit in these deaths, in this horror. According to the NYT (in another article) the gunman, in his "manifesto", called Trump “a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose." Trump offered his "warmest sympathy and best wishes" to the people of New Zealand on twitter. He should have offered his apology.
Par4me (AZ)
@Marie S Why? Trump is not at fault. your warped thinking that he is "complicit" in these deaths is bizarre. It was a sick mind that would do what this person did. Period.
Marie S (Portland, OR)
@Par4me It was a sick mind - encouraged by a lot of racist rhetoric plus access to killing machines that caused this. You've conveniently forgotten that Trump called the neo-Nazi/white supremacists in Charlottesville "very fine people." And that he demonizes immigrants regularly. And dragged his heels before disavowing David Duke. That he allows Stephen Miller to write his speeches. White supremacists around the world LOVE Trump. Think long and hard about that...
MJL (CT)
Leave Facebook and Twitter now. These businesses do absolutely nothing of value for society and in fact are the preferred conduit for the mass spread of hate and disinformation in the world. Zuckerberg and Dorsey have blood on their hands from this terrorist attack as well.
Wally Wolf (Texas)
Paul isn't blaming Trump for just this shooting; he's blaming him for all these acts of violence and his tolerance for violence against immigrants and people of color by white supremacists. He’s blaming him for encouraging violence as a solution for protestors in his campaign rallies to those who use extreme violence to express disapproval of other religions and races. Trump’s building an army of ignorant white people who hate and hide behind Christianity and who he hopes will vote him back into power in 2020.
Samuel Owen (Athens, GA)
The Holocaust, 9-11, Vietnam War, Yemen/Saudi War, Pearl Harbor etc. etc. ....or Tornados, Earthquakes etc. etc. .... The grieving is all so human and real. And our living so variable in time and endings but certain. Why do some persons seem always in a hurry to bring death to themselves or to kill others without a ‘just cause? A starved mindfulness or a hunger for vanities? God Knows Best I presume. May He grant a brief period of grief to those who mourn and extend His Mercy & Forgiveness to the dead as it pleases Him.
Ralph Petrillo (Nyc)
Zuckerberg possibly increased advertising rates as it played. Facebook should be shut down before maniacs become competitive to get their atrocities online. Weren’t there atrocities committed in Iraq, and Syria on Facebook as their earnings increased Facebook is not needed in society. They should be closed down two days a week until this is brought under control.
CS (Florida)
@Ralph Petrillo Facebook should be closed down entirely. As far as I can see FB has made our sick society sicker. They have done nothing to enhance quality of life on any level--time to rid ourselves of this scourge. Let Zuckerberg find something else to do with his time.
Colorado Lily (Rocky Mountain High)
@Ralph Petrillo: Facebook and Twitter should just be closed down. Period. Let's start all over again and take AR'15's and high capacity magazines off the streets and out of the hands of civilians.
AE (France)
@Ralph Petrillo Mr Petrillo The flippant tolerance contemporary society demonstrates towards Facebook is another sure sign of the looming anarchy characterizing our lives today. No single company's existence is worth the lives of innocent individuals who are the potential victims of this horrendously toxic enterprise whose matrix was associated with sexual harassment when Zuckerberg set up his girl rating system before dropping out of college….
Michael Rosenthal (NYC)
In 1985 my wife and I spent an absolutely delightful and wonderful week in New Zealand touring the South Island by car. We developed a love for the country and its people. What a horror! That this could happen in such a peace-loving and calm country is so much worse than appalling. I know it is daunting, but we must get rid of guns.
manfred marcus (Bolivia)
Tragic outcome when you have a combination of too many weapons at your disposal... with eventual mental derangement (if hate of 'the other' is part of it). Even if understanding that the licensing to acquire, and use, guns, is 'strict', who is to say that that individual may become an assassin when a trigger comes along? Just listen to our own bully in-chief (a coward in disguise), spreading via his big mouth nonsense that 'fear and hate and violence' is O.K., easily picked up by a susceptible person and act on it? If society really means to stop this outrage, it must cut down the prolific amount of guns in our midst. Period. That we have prostituted politicians selling themselves to the gun lobby ought not be a surprise. But the power of the people must be there, and the will to exercise their prerrogatives. Don't you think that part of the violence we witness day in and day out may be due to our passivity, even complacency, in the status quo?
Mark Miller (WI)
These terrorists seek publicity and recognition. We give it to them, inspiring more terrorists. In most cases there is a manifesto, bragging, or some effort to publicize themselves. They know they are likely to die, but being a hero to their peers is more important. This gunman filmed and posted, and had names of white supremacists he admired on his weapons. Facebook and others are to blame; in part for not having better screening of posts, but in larger part for allowing hate groups to even use their sites. If a site is known to promote hate messages, it should already have been taken down. If they can't easily reach millions of others, their acts and messaging will dwindle. The general news media is to blame as well. When the terrorists' names and faces are published, they receive the glory they were seeking and that glory encourages others in their groups. Since the hate groups (whether white supremacists, muslim terrorists and others) are using this media for publicity and glory, you must stop giving it to them. Use terms like "perpetrator" or "suspect" and leave their names and pictures out of the news. If a would-be murder believes that he will die with very few people even knowing who he was or that he existed, very few will take such actions. And very few others will idolize or emulate them.
Mark Miller (WI)
These terrorists seek publicity and recognition. We give it to them, inspiring more terrorists. In most cases there is a manifesto, bragging, or some effort to publicize themselves. They know they are likely to die, but being a hero to their peers is more important. This gunman filmed and posted, and had names of white supremacists he admired on his weapons. Facebook and others are to blame; in part for not having better screening of posts, but in larger part for allowing hate groups to even use their sites. If a site is known to promote hate messages, it should already have been taken down. If they can't easily reach millions of others, their acts and messaging will dwindle. The general news media is to blame as well. When the terrorists' names and photos are published, they receive the glory they were seeking and that glory encourages others in their groups. Since the hate groups (whether white supremacists, muslim terrorists and others) are using this media for publicity and glory, you must stop giving it to them. Use terms like "perpetrator" or "suspect" and leave their names and faces out of the news. If a would-be murder believes that he will die with very few people even knowing who he was or that he existed, they are unlikely to act, and very few others will idolize or emulate them.
RLB (Kentucky)
Those who perpetrated this horrendous act need to be held responsible, but we should not overlook the role that beliefs played in this awful deed. For centuries, religions have pitted groups of people against each other, and countless numbers have died. It has to stop. In the near future, we will program the human mind in the computer based on a "survival" algorithm, which will provide irrefutable proof as to how we trick the mind with our ridiculous beliefs about what is supposed to survive - producing minds programmed de facto for destruction. These minds see the survival of a particular group of people or a belief as more important than the survival of all. When we understand all this, we will begin the long trek back to reason and sanity. See RevolutionOfReason.com
Shahbaby (NY)
It twists ones heart strings just to imagine the intensity of grief of the loved ones of the dead and seriously injured. I wanted to make a point here. These people were murdered by a hate filled terrorist, not by Facebook. Too many commentators here, I feel, are entirely blaming Facebook for this event. Please let's try not to deflect. The blame for events like these lies squarely on the person/s who pull the trigger. It is true that divisive and inciting influences like rabid TV networks and hosts, social media and irresponsible hate filled politicians in positions of great power share some of the culpability. It is also true that Facebook makes it easy for them to broadcast their vitriol to the whole world, but there are plenty of other media to facilitate this as well like WhatsApp, Twitter etc. These terrorists would likely have killed just as surely even if they didn't have the ability to live stream. I'm no fan of Facebook; when I realized its toxicity, I weaned myself off with great difficulty two years ago. But Facebook didn't kill these people and deflecting by suggesting it is to blame without mentioning the total responsibility of the person who pulled the trigger is a disservice to society at large and is like sweeping the dirt under the rug...
Cheryl (NC)
@Shahbaby I want to thank you for your comments. You wrote a very true & fair commentary of an awful act of terror. I look forward to reading more from you in the future.
Yo (Alexandria, VA)
I routinely check out Breitbart, specifically to see how its readers comment on various news stories. This story is exceptionally heavy with response and the great weight of the response is: "the leftists are responsible for this because they forced integration upon us." This is a very bad sign for American democracy, plurality, and social stability.
Patty O (deltona)
@Yo Unfortunately, I went there and to Fox News just to see what kind of comments were getting posted. It's repulsive. I feel the need to bath now. What is wrong with those people?!?
jeffrey w (portland)
I am saddened by all this madness. Worse yet ,I know that our president has fostered sentiment that fuels extremists to feel justified in getting their "15 minutes". Sure,someone issued a lame, boiler plate apology on tweeter. Livestream massacre courtesy of the greedsters from Facebook who sold us this pox on the world. At this point the only solution is ammunition control.
Harley Leiber (Portland OR)
No wall could have stopped this. It is domestic terrorism. Plain and simple. Very very sad.
Mark (Indianapolis)
Hatred is a terrible virus. Once a person is convinced that they are superior to another person’s faith, race or gender, they can act upon this belief. Facebook magnifies this kind of hatred because it’s an easy platform to find fellow travelers and to obsess with an endless online addiction.
Greg Hodges (Truro, N.S./ Canada)
Three things sadly divide humanity into tribalism. Nationalism, religion, and culture. We see these three forces now being turned into a mindless violent attack on the "OTHER" time and time again. Whether it is chants of "Death to America," in Iran; or another mass murder in New Zealand; the fear and insanity that is now a big part of the still young 21st Century is the new reality. Violence breeds violence. There is nothing new here. The problem is our pathetic so called leaders are a Big Part of the Problem... NOT the Solution! Whether it is a Anne Coulter/ Donald Trump tweet about how all muslims are terrorists at heart; or a Bin Laden leading a holy war against the western infidels; if we do not stop throwing gasoline on these fires it will consume the whole world. Nothing in either the Bible or the Koran excuses or justifies mass murder. Those who commit these terrorist acts are evil; plain and simple. They must be rejected and called out for what they are. And for God`s Sake; let us just say a prayer for the victims; whatever their faith may be. We are either ALL GOD`s CHILDREN; or we are NOT. STOP the hate; and STOP the INSANITY.
Pataman (Arizona)
@Greg Hodges We cannot stop the hate with people like trump, putin and other dictators in power. He foments hate of everyone not "white." He also encourages violence. Oh, he says he doesn't, but reading his "tweets" it is quite obvious he wants his followers to be ready for civil war if he is ousted from the Oval Office come 2020. Or if Mr. Mueller exposes incontrovertible proof of crimes which will make it mandatory for congress to start impeachment proceedings.
Michael (NYC)
My deepest condolences to the victims and their families and loved ones. As a white person, it's quite obvious that white people are consistently the most dangerous and deadly terrorists. Kind of sickly ironic how we're also the ones blaming every other ethnicity for all the violence and social disruption.
JerseyGirl (Princeton NJ)
Numerically speaking you're not even close to being right. As someone pointed out this level of terrorism happens in the Muslim world literally almost every week. But go ahead and point fingers and blame a racial group because that's exactly be kind of division this terrorist said he wanted to stir up.
Cheryl (NC)
@Michael As a white woman, I am not responsible for these murders. I have never murdered anyone nor do I plan to murder anyone. The only person or persons responsible for these murders are either in jail or soon to be arrested.
Disillusioned (NJ)
While the horrific New Zealand slaughter might lead some to believe that racism is a world wide problem, I suggest that the more important conclusion for Americans is that our nation's recent turn to the right emboldens racist terrorists both within and outside of the country. Clearly, the reference to American gun laws confirms the fact that maniacs throughout the world pay attention to the alt-right drivel published daily on the Web, but also impliedly approved by many state and national leaders. We need to control guns, but it is imperative that we do something to control racist hatred. If we continue on our current path we increase the likelihood of similar incidents in America.
P2 (NE)
We the real American, majority of us are with you New Zealand. We pray with you and let's work together to get rid of this hatred and weapons.
Kara Ben Nemsi (On the Orient Express)
While the murderous rampage was horrific, I am even more terrified by the tsunami with which the barbarism spread on the internet. What that shows me is that there are thousands, possibly millions, of others who are getting a kick out of people getting killed. They are just too afraid to do it themselves. But when there comes a time when society breaks down due to war, famine or climate change, these same people will become animals just like this shooter. Realizing that for me is the scary part.
Sherry Bellamy (DC)
Notably, while your story mentions the terrorist’s inspirations, you omit any mention of Donald Trump. Why? Readers need to be aware that America’s president is inspiring white nationalist terrorists not only in the US, but abroad. My prayers go to the families of the victims and to the people of NZ.
Lifelong New Yorker (NYC)
@Sherry Bellamy Trump - making the world safe for hate.
Frank J Haydn (Washington DC)
@Sherry Bellamy What utter nonsense. Its ok to hate Mr. Trump, but blaming him for the psychological problems of a disturbed human being is beyond the pale.
Gary F.S. (Oak Cliff, Texas)
@Sherry Bellamy If Trump was the inspiration for these latest killings in New Zealand, then who "inspired" white nationalist Anders Breivik to murder 77 people in Norway back in 2011? Who "inspired" Dylan Roof to kill nine black Charleston worshippers in 2015? Obama was President then, not Trump. Trump is all-kind of awful, but blaming him, even tangentially, for a mass murder in N.Z. is an outrageous form of blood libel. Trump's drivel has no more encouraged murderous rampages in the world's houses of worship than the cloyingly sentimental sermons of Barack Obama have prevented them. Trump's words have hardened the hearts of his supporters to the dreadful humanitarian crisis his policies have caused on our southern border. He's also responsible for abetting the Saudi bombing of Yemen that offend even Senate Republicans. This is where the outrage should directed to.
Phyliss Dalmatian (Wichita, Kansas)
New Zealand : Most of Us abhor this violence, this death, this meaningless Slaughter. It's routine here and happens almost Daily, it's just a question of the Location and number of Victims. We have a feckless, paid -off Congress that will do NOTHING to even limit the Deaths. I am truly sorry you've caught this Contagion. Don't be US. BAN ALL GUNS. It will only get Worse. Stop the Madness.
su (ny)
We are evolving, malign things and benign things hand to hand , neck to neck. After all these self adulating social, narcistic chest pounding media sites, If anyone says this was unexpected or unprecedented, I would be appalled.
Roark (Massachusetts)
Time to wake up and put some sensible controls on Facebook. At the same time, society needs to come to terms with the notion that any person (typically an angry white guy in this country) with a gun can kill lots of innocent people. You can't eliminate the number of crazy people in our society but we can certainly put strict limits on access to guns.
Skidaway (Savannah)
Maybe we all have this backwards. Perhaps the gunman, without the prospect of being able to stream his act to terror live, facilitated by Facebook, on the internet, might not have perpetrated the act. Facebook is a megaphone for sociopaths. Without a platform from which to scream, would they scream at all?
Elizabeth Hamon (San Francisco)
@Skidaway Agree. Facebook and Social Media was also used as a weapon.
Lifelong New Yorker (NYC)
@Skidaway As if there were no sociopaths before Facebook. As I type this, there's a 73-year-old one in the White House.
Skidaway (Savannah)
@Lifelong New Yorker you are correct...but think for a moment about what propelled him into that office and his favorite tool for communicating with his base
Lonnie (NYC)
I fear censorship more than I fear the one or two madmen among us. And I fear the people who immediately volunteer to give up our freedoms more than anything. Terrorists succeed beyond their wildest dreams when their actions produce the kind of radical responce which encroach on any freedom, and the freedoms allowed by social media, the freedom to express yourself to a world wide world is one of them. There will always be the insane, we don't allow them to make the rules.....that would be truly crazy.
Marie S (Portland, OR)
@Lonnie But we MUST take their guns away.
Bill (Westchester County, NY)
@Lonnie - I agree. I thought the initial response of this latest act of insanity was different and a positive, if only subtle, improvement. There seemed to be some restraint, some attempt to contain the damage done by the very problematic gaps in the phenomenon of social media. You are absolutely right that there is an opening here for totalitarians to step in under cover of otherwise righteous indignation at the misuse of the First Amendment and its marketplace of ideas. We are at risk of embracing the very fascists we fear.
DMB (Brooklyn)
This is such a misplaced conceit The freedom of a terrorist to publish a self made video of slaughtering people to the world is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard anyone fight for. This is the most inane slippery slope argument I’ve ever heard. It’s pretty clear cut - when someone films their own act of terror, they don’t have the right to have the entire world be the audience in the name of freedom That is not a freedom that any sane person would fight for
Jen (Maryland)
Make a political statement today, and quit Facebook. It’s wasting your precious time and causing so much harm to our collective humanity.
Frank J Haydn (Washington DC)
@Jen There are some pretty awesome support groups on Facebook that help people with disabilities, addictions, and other maladies. I agree that most of FB is nonsense, but it makes sense to take what works and ignore the rest.
Stephanie (Paris, France)
Why call these shootings and not terrorist attacks?
AE (France)
The election of Donald Trump in the United States as well as the wholesale tolerance of overt racism in European politics have facilitated the Christchurch act of terrorism launched against the Muslim faithful in two mosques. How long will it take Americans and Europeans to ever come around to admitting that they and their behaviour are part of the orchestrated strife between peoples and cultures ? Until then, the Breiviks of the world will continue to slaughter in the absurd name of 'saving the white race'....
dupr (New Jersey)
This incident reminds me of the Dylan Roof church tragedy in South Carolina where the people in the church welcomed him into their bible study and he killed dozens of them who were all Black American citizens. This hatred not extends to anyone who is non-white and who is perceived by some whites as getting an unfair advantage over the white race. This is a deep rooted hate that is promulgated by people in high places like trump, steve king, steve bannon, stephen miller(jew), Fox News, Sean Hannity, Lauren Ingram, Roger Stone, Tucker Carlson, Rush Limbaugh,billionaires (Mercers), Mitch McConnell (undercover) and the list goes on and on...... Sadly, racism is never going away. However, the best one can do is to spread as much love and kindness to each other regardless of ethnicity or skin color to help destroy the hatred one step at a time.
FM (Brooklyn)
My condolences to the muslim community in New Zealand and around the world. This is not a gun issue, unlike in the U.S in which there is a gun issue. This is a white nationalist (yes, there is something wrong with the phrase), racism, islamophobia issue, like the U.S, in which this is also an issue. This is heartbreaking and we need to vote out/quiet anyone who wants to perpetuate these ideas on a public platform. Whether it be the president, representative, or facebook or youtube. NYT, why put a link to the Youtube star cited by the gunman?? You sent so much traffic his way.... I don’t understand.
Bill (Westchester County, NY)
@FM - Agree wholeheartedly. NYT posting of a link to the YouTube star is voyeuristic not journalistic. Describe it, yes. Analyze it, yes. But to afford a coveted place in the marketplace of ideas to what are at best clueless, irresponsible narcissists, at worst, shameless facsists is a not the role of a news organization with a long and dignified history. A modern trend which I wish the Times' millenial staff would resist more proactively.
David (Philadelphia)
This atrocity can be laid right at Trump’s feet. He’s been encouraging white supremacy and the purchase of more and more guns by these violent crackpots. It’s bad enough that Mitch McConnell’s corrupt GOP supports everything evil and disgraceful about Trump; now Trump’s racist poison is manifesting in peaceful New Zealand. Do you remember when the United States was looked up to, and admired by, the entire free world? That was two long years ago. Seems like forever.
Lilo (Michigan)
@David Ok. When Muslims slaughter Christians in Egypt, when Hindus murder Muslims in India, When Buddhists rape and murder Muslims in Myanmar, when Chinese imprison Muslims in Xianjiang, when Jews shoot Muslims in the West Bank and Gaza, when Muslims rape Christian Brits in England, when Christians kill other Christians and Muslims in Norway, is all of that Trump's fault as well? This is bigger than Trump. I'm not saying he's good. But let's not pretend that white supremacy and the larger set of ethnocentrism to which it belongs, is unique to Trump. This stuff has been going on before he was elected or born.
Mkm (NYC)
50 or 100 people killed in attacks on mosques, markets or churches are pretty much a monthly occurrence in the Muslim world. Attacks are so common the stories barely rise above filler in most news coverage. So, I find it heartening that we can still muster true outrage when it happens in a none Muslim country. This terrorism cannot be allowed to spread here. I do not know how to bring down these white supremacist, but we must figure out the how and get going on it.
petbo (Germany)
My biggest fear is that just as school shooters are learning from previous cases, this new breed of white racist terrorism will be an example for others to follow. This guy admired the Norwegian killer Breivik, no doubt he is already being hailed by others like him all around the world. Rightwing terrorism has become an international brand. And just like this time worshippers in a Mosque in New Zealand were targeted, next time it could be a Jewish congregation - again. Or Black church goers - again. Maybe next time it is a house of God somewhere in Europe, where guns are increasingly easy to come by. My heart goes out to the victims and their families, to the people living in Christchurch. And to all Muslims all around the world, gathering today in prayer - may God be with all of us.
Kara Ben Nemsi (On the Orient Express)
@petbo Correct. Divide and conquer. Pit one group against another. Identity politics is the road to power. And war. These are all pages out of the imperialists playbook read and written by dictators for millennia. There is something said for maintaining a homogeneous society to keep the peace. Keep divisions to a minimum.
Leslie (Oakland)
We are a horror.
William Doolittle (Stroudsbrg Pa)
Facebook is a powerful megaphone for the demented who have always been with us spreading terror. Who will stop it ?
JET (III)
One of the questions going forward will be how a man from a country with very tight gun restrictions obtained guns in order to commit this crime in another country with very tight gun restrictions.
Lifelong New Yorker (NYC)
@JET Maybe he ordered the weapons online from America.
Mark Bau (Australia)
Hang on a second, Hollywood makes billions glorifying graphic violence that the majority can't get enough of but when it comes to real-time violence the police/politicians/ press, want to shield us because we are such sensitive souls. We need to see, first hand, the end result of intolerance. What cemented me as a pacifist was the famous footage of the bulldozers pushing mountains of bodies into the pits at Belsen. Only when we are confronted with the obscenity of hatred and violence do we begin to understand where hatred and intolerance lead us.
D.A.Oh (Middle America)
It's all over the dark web if you really want to wade into that morass.
Bill (Westchester County, NY)
@Mark Bau - Good point. But let's not let the perpetrators of these horrors control the dissemination of the first-hand witness testimony. Those pictures at Belsen were taken not by the Nazi madmen but by British army and documentary filmakers, including Alfred Hitchcock, who was hired by the British government to do exactly what you point out is needed: confrontation with the reality of these horrors. We do not, however, need the perpetrators' storylines.
T. Goodridge (Maine)
The gunman also wrote of how he supported US President Donald Trump “as a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose,” but not as a policymaker. He goes on to reference Candace Owens: “The person who has influenced me above all is Candace Owens”. Owens is an outspoken US pro-Trump activist known for her criticism of Black Lives Matter and of Democratic Party.
USA Too (Texas)
I'm sure the White House is sitting with baited breath waiting and hoping that there isn't a copycat incident in the US over the next few days. Trump really needs to control of his tongue and his tweets because words have power and can lead to real life consequences.
Ultramayan (Texas)
Social media companies must do more to aggressively stop hate-speech. The American guarantee of free speech in the First Amendment to our constitution did not envision this at its design. Social media must face scrutiny from the Congress or this horrible business will continue.
J. Waddell (Columbus, OH)
I thought mass murders like this only happened in the US where gun laws are lax. What is the explanation for how this could happen in New Zealand?
Lifelong New Yorker (NYC)
@J. Waddell Maybe the guns came from America. We do arm the world after all.
Gshock2008 (Minnesota)
@J. Waddell The difference is two mass shootings in 13 years [NZ] vs 50+ mass shootings [US]. That's like asking, "What good are traffic rules and regulations? People die anyway." Things can always get worse.
Tiny Tim (Port Jefferson NY)
@J. Waddell About 1/4 of New Zealanders already have guns. Of course, common sense gun access controls won't stop all mass shootings as long as so many guns are already out there, but they will certainly help reduce the slaughter.
Vanman (down state ill)
Most people, 99%+, find this a horror. What is going on in a head that allows this sick imagination to become reality?The lethal potential of an individual comes from between his/her ears. There is poison to be found on the 'web' allowing manipulators to exercise influence on other flawed and weak minded. Those supplying that 'link' are at very least enablers for underestimating the influence they make available. As this planet continues to evolve as a more aware 'world' society, the test of our metal will increasingly be how we deal with that 1%.
CP (NJ)
First and foremost, my sympathies for the victims, their families, friends and country. Beyond that, words fail to express my sadness, anger and frustration. "Isms" travel all too well: terrorism, racism, fascism, religionism - and trumpism. Of course Donald Trump didn't kill those worshippers, but his own racism, hate speech, misleadership and perpetual lying have travelled too easily across borders and handed terrorists a permission slip to commit their heinous crimes. Shame on the shooters and those who do or would support them as well as on Trump for opening afresh the Pandora's box of hatred. We can't change events that happened, but we must begin to change minds.
Paul (Brooklyn)
Schumer and Pelosi don't want to impeach Trump yet. I think it is a wise move both politically and legally. However there is such a thing as censure. The maniac who killed the people in New Zealand specifically referred to Trump as part of his inspiration with his rabble rousing speech. If this isn't enough to censure I don't know what is. A US president aiding and abetting a massacre in another country. This is how far America has debased itself.
JJ (Toronto)
On one hand, these actions are disgusting and have no place in a society such as ours. On the other hand, I should have the right to watch whatever newsworthy videos I want. Neither the government nor any private tech company should be able to ban someone who wants to view this video from doing so, and as of now it is impossible to find this video on the internet. The NZ police has scrubbed it. I don't want someone halfway around the world be allowed to decide what news I am allowed to consume.
WHM (Rochester)
Local police scrambled to get the video off the internet. That is certainly a good thing for depriving this guy of additional notoriety and protecting the privacy of those massacred. There is one down side to the international effort to protect victims, that the public gets a sanitized version of the events of the day. There are several graphic descriptions of gunshot trauma on the web, some by emergency room doctors. One particularly powerful series of photos showed simply the littered trauma room after an unsuccessful attempt to save a teenager. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/14/opinion/sunday/guns-violence-hospitals.html. An important consideration for those interested in gun control is that military style weapons (e.g. the Bushmaster used in New Zealand) so thoroughly destroy human organs and cause sufficient bleeding that trauma surgeons are often unable to help much. Muzzle velocity is a major distinction between military weapons and those used to hunt, target shoot or defend ones home. The odds of surviving such weapons is minimal unless one is accompanied at all times by a trained medic who can administer first aid in the first few seconds after injury. This fellow went to New Zealand from Australia, where guns are strictly controlled.
Ryan (NY)
Hate speeches by Donald Trump and by the right wing leaders are making the right wing terror attacks bigger and more frequent. The world must hold the Donald Trump and the rightwing leaders accountable. Even declare War on Right Wing Terror.
Brooklyn (Brooklyn)
To paraphrase Goethe, if you are ignorant of history, you stand on the shore of the day's frontiers. Blaming today's news, media and politics for today's results ignores the millennia of butchering done in the name of country, religion, ethnicity, etc. That most of us today find human slaughtering abhorrent is, historically, uncommon. And if we bridle this slaughtering under the grand notion of war, why there is nothing wrong with it at all. I doubt we animals will ever move past the slaughter of one another.
DMB (Brooklyn)
Horrible, but shows the difference of an enlightened leader. It takes a PM like the Ardern to call this a terrorist attack. The New York Times and US leaders fail to call shootings from white supremicists terrorist attacks. This is a racist conceit that only Muslims are terrorists and white shooters are “shooters.” Look at your coverage of Charleston vs. San Bernardino. The language used is very different. Your coverage propagates myth and stop using “suspect” and “alleged” shooter when the police drag out a shooter carrying a bunch of AR 15’s. Stop it. You quickly fleeced a high school kid at a rally and yet walk on egg shells in language for a shooter. Despicable.
Didier (Charleston, WV)
“The real cause of bloodshed on New Zealand streets today is the immigration program which allowed Muslim fanatics to migrate to New Zealand in the first place,” Queensland Senator Fraser Anning said in a written statement immediately after the massacre. "Muslims," he said, "may have been the victims today, usually they are the perpetrators.” This is the world that Donald Trump and Steven Miller reinforce with their rhetoric and their policies. Homicidal lunatics find solace and comfort in Donald Trump and his fellow travelers. "Good people on both sides." "Muslim ban." "Caravans." "Terrorists." " I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump—I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough—until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad." These are code words and calls to violence. And, the list of the unhinged who respond grows longer and longer. Cesar Sayoc. Robert Bowers. Christopher Hasson. Republicans and, particularly, Mitch McConnell, I hope you can sleep well at night with a soul you surrendered to hate for nothing more than holding on to power.
Bruce Stafford (Sydney NSW)
@Didier We here cannot point a finger at your archaic Electoral College system while we have in place a system that allows a clown like Queensland Senator Fraser Anning to get a seat with just 19 votes! Yes, you read right - 19 votes. He only got a Senate seat when Malcolm Roberts, another member of his former Party (One Nation) lost his seat for a breach of the Constitution. Anning was appointed to take his place. Hopefully Queenslanders will kick Anning out at the next election.
Thomas (Galveston, Texas)
Anyone who thinks his religion or race is better than another's is not a human. Anyone who kills a defenseless immigrant is a coward. Any leader who doesn't immediately condemn such acts is a part of the problem.
Christianto (Indonesia)
As a muslim, i feel really sad that my muslims brothers and sisters were killed on this tragedy. And one thing that i really hate about media is that the fact when ISIS do something bad, Muslim is the one to blame even though what ISIS do is the opposite from what Muhammad and Quran taught us, they're not a muslim but still when they do something bad then media and people will labelled us(muslims) as a terrorist and when someone slaughter 40+ innocent people and child, they're not called as terrorist.
Ed (America)
@Christianto Now you know how the majority of law-abiding, nonviolent American gun-owners feel. Who gets the blame when a crazy person shoots up a church? Innocent people -- almost always Republicans (even though Democrats own guns too) -- who have never fired their guns at another human being and never will.
Andrew (Christchurch)
Kia Kaha Christchurch
JackC5 (Los Angeles Co., CA)
Terrible and tragic. Those people would be safe at home in their own countries if it were not for the white liberal virtue-signalling NZ government's obsession on immigration. Liberals ought to be more concerned about peoples' well-being and stop immigration, but sadly they will not.
Mick (Wisconsin)
This is the most horrific thing I have seen in my life. I am numb. Why is the president's Twitter feed linking to Breitbart, where the coverage on this includes a comments section full of racist filth commending the shooter? This is unlike anything we've seen before, and I hate to think of the perpetrator's pleasure at that fact. The livestreaming, the 4chan threads. References to Candace Owens in this "manfiesto" that is as absurd in the sense of modern "trolling" as it is chilling. This attack was designed to metastasize on social media. The slaughter of these people will be overshadowed by "false flag" theories, gaslighting, alternative facts.
Samuel (Seattle)
Delete Facebook
petey tonei (Ma)
@Samuel, never got an account in the first place. Never.
ageng (Indonesia)
sorry for my opinion ... but why does the media not mention this news as a terrorism? is that because the shooter is not Muslim? they mention the shooter a 'gunmen' .. I am sure if the shooter is a Muslim, the media will mention him a terrorist .. so sorry for my opinion
Avatar (New York)
When the president of the United States and his Fox policy advisors including Secretary of State, Sean Hannity, spew hatred of immigrants and Islam, how can we be surprised when deranged psychopaths act out? When a chief adviser, Stephen Miller, rails against immigrants, how can we be surprised? When the president tells us that there were “some very fine people” among the neo-Nazis in Charlottesville, how can we be surprised? When the Republican Party remains silent when the leader of the free world foments white resentment and hatred, how can we be surprised? And, how is it that this atrocity was permitted to stream live on Facebook? This itself is an atrocity. MAKE THE WORLD HATE AGAIN! Thanks, Donald.
Robert (Seattle)
Enough is enough, Mr. Trump. Your words and your actions, your lies and ignorance, hate and fear are inciting racist violence around the world. These terrorists said they were motivated by your gun and immigration nonsense. No more lies, demonization and fear. No more praise for the "very fine people" in Charlottesville. Our biggest terrorist threat is our right wing, white supremacist terrorists like these. It is time to kick them out of the Trump McConnell Republican party. It is time to start telling the truth.
natan (California)
Obviously this was a terrorist attack. Call it what it is.
PG (Lost In Amerika)
Anyone care to place any bets on who the shooters' favorite world leader is? Remember Trump saying "I think Islam hates us?" I'll bet the shooters do.
jrinsc (South Carolina)
Can someone explain to me the advantages of a social media platform like Facebook? The ability to re-connect with high school friends, share family pictures, or promote one's career? It seems to me that, on balance, Facebook has made the world more dangerous, lonelier, more anxious about one's social status, and more susceptible to political and monetary exploitation. To those who believe that all technology is "neutral" and that it's up to us how it's used, consider that we've never had such personalized, interactive technology before. A hammer doesn't monitor its user and change shape to accommodate itself to the user's preferences, while sending detailed information back to the tool company about the user. Perhaps I'm a Luddite, but I could happily live in a world without social media. Yes, it would be less convenient. But I'd trade that convenience so that the murder of 49 people cannot be live-streamed.
Blackmamba (Il)
White supremacist Islamphobia anti-immigrant xenophobia is endemic in America, Australia, Israel and Europe including Russia misled by growing bigotry among the citizens and their leaders. Among the English speaking countries Canada, New Zealand and United Kingdom are not yet on that list.
Ralph Petrillo (Nyc)
Facebook may need to be closed down 2 days a week , and brought under control. the lunatics in the world will keep streaming their violent acts, and mass murder is being aired. Next it will be massive killings, and Facebook will play naive. Facebook can lead to good honest communication but with so many nut jobs in the world, it is time to restrict Facebook , first by closing it down two days a week. Until they can better handle the content, it may start with two days a week of closures, to possible only being allowed to open one day a week. Lunatics all over the world have been videotaping murders, and this will lead to mass murders being shown on Facebook.
Joe (NYC)
Time to take away all the guns. They do no good.
Kori (Texas)
Greasing up that (not so unreasonable) slippery slope for us, huh? Force registration on short barrel rifles&shotguns, machine guns, and silences they said, that'll stop all this crime, we're not banning guns just controlling them (1934 NFA). Let's ban sales across state lines and require a special license to sell guns, ban buying them through the mail, that'll stop all this crime (1968 GCA). Let's outright ban new machine guns, no one needs them, we're not banning guns just these bad ones (machine gun ban, Ronald Reagan 1986). Hey let's ban "military style weapons" THAT will REALLY solve gun crime, we aren't banning guns, just these bad ones..... and so it goes, till there are no gun rights left and only criminals have them.
Lilo (Michigan)
@Joe How are people without guns going to take away guns from those who have them? More and more people are ignoring new gun laws, whether it be the SAFE Act in New York or other states out west. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/11/us/state-gun-laws.html As predicted, empowering people to establish "sanctuary cities" and ignore laws they don't like has caused the opposite reaction of causing other people to establish "sanctuary counties" and ignore different laws that they don't like. Trying to forcibly confiscate weapons would put this country into a new Civil War.
Bill Camarda (Ramsey, NJ)
The Sydney Morning Herald reports that the gunman "praised United States President Donald Trump as "a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose." https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania/christchurch-shooter-s-manifesto-reveals-an-obsession-with-white-supremacy-over-muslims-20190315-p514ko.html
Andrew (Ann Arbor, MI)
YouTube enabled this; Twitter enabled this; 8chan enabled this; Felix Kjellberg ("PewDiePie") enabled this These sites and the individuals on them who generate ad revenue with their alt-right/white-supremacist-speckled content (even if "it's just a joke, bro!") are all complicit in this death and destruction
Bennedict (Edmonton)
I suspected this was going to be the response to this event. What the gunman did was stupid and counter-productive, but a lot of the commenters who are pointing fingers about racism, hate, and Islamophobia are doing exactly what he wanted everyone to do, to achieve his goal of adding more blood to the already heated issue of politics. And the more we point fingers, the closer monsters like this idiot will be to achieving their goal of creating instability and chaos. You don't win in politics by being right, because arrogance only breeds more arrogance, as stated in Newton's law (every action has an equal and opposite reaction). You win by getting inside their mind and countering based on problem solving. Because not everyone lives under the same set of circumstances (ex. A person living in a low-income neighborhood vs a company CEO or a middle-class IT worker) And the same reason why a Republic (all states and social groups having the same opportunity of representation in government, so long as there is a legitimate argument) is stronger than Direct Democracy. And if we were strictly a Direct Democracy, suffrage and Civil rights would have never existed because the rich, Conservative White man held the majority for the longest time in Western History. We like to talk a lot, but we don't listen. And that is the Achelles Heel that keeps this nonsense going.
Robert (Out West)
Is this really a good time to take blaming the victim to the next level?
Fayyaz (Bari)
One needs to understand that how media labels people or community instead of the phenomenon; Black terrorist and Muslim Jehad terrorism un apologetically in a minute and politicians repeat them in public for different motives. I don't know where that 'branding' has disappeared this time.!!! a person has killed 49, yet he is 'shooter'. Look at his manifestos. He is still not white. It took hours to call him terrorist by Govt and reluctantly by media. Fuel the hatred and this is the result. Double standards
Bos (Boston)
So sad, terrorists are terrorists, it doesn't matter they are right wing, left wing, religious fanatics or anarchists. None of them has any place in civilized society.
Rob (London)
Right wing extremism has risen its ugly head again and must be condemned outright. Politicians espousing or providing cover for these animals need to be held accountable and banned from public service.
Dina (NYC)
When will the world finally see that hate is fostered by and allowed to flourish on social media?!! The Pittsburgh shooter posts on social media before his deplorable act. This monster filmed his slaughter live on Facebook. It’s time to stop blaming one another and take a long hard look at Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat and Instagram. I firmly believe that they are to blame for this carnage!
Lifelong New Yorker (NYC)
@Dina There's been carnage since the beginning of the world. Take away Facebook, et al. and there will still be carnage. Facebook isn't the problem. It's us.
Leigh (Qc)
What misery these haters inflict in a misguided attempt to prove their destiny wasn't to be among the greatest losers in the game of life since the very day of their birth. Many in Quebec tonight find themselves in tears over their newly shared grief with the people of New Zealand.
Devil's Advocate (NY)
Slowly but surely, little massacre by little massacre, we may ultimately come to agree with the Ancient/Current Chinese model of regulating and controlling the Contemporary/Modern World's Unbridled Internet/Social Freedom of the masses' impulses that result as a byproduct in inevitable uncontrolled animosity, chaos, violence and destruction, based on age-old irrational retro-grade animosities. Who's to say that the Chinese are wrong, and that so-called Western Liberal freedom-democracy is always right and preferable, no matter what the horrific consequences unleashed..........????
Cheryl (The Bronx)
Insecure White Supremacists (distinguished from the more secure we heard about with the college scam) + guns and weapons always = pain for Communities of Color. Each version awful, destructive killers of other people's hopes and dreams.
Julia (Berkeley)
My first thought was Thank You Trump. I know that's totally irrational, but living in the USA with all hate he spreads, it's knee jerk reaction.
me (AZ, unfortunately)
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. As a white nationalists' enabler, Donald Trump is part of the problem; now on a global stage. How is he going to tweet his way out of this tragedy?
Kevin (Dc)
“Tarrant said he was a supporter of Donald Trump as a 'symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose'.” “Those Who Can Make You Believe Absurdities, Can Make You Commit Atrocities” And Jesus wept.
William (Tbilisi, Georgia)
Still not calling it terrorism? Why?
CosmosHuman (Mentor)
Of course President Trump will be blamed for this act of terrorism. The liberals will have a field day stating the terrorists were inspired by US politics. This is a horrible act of terrorism against residents of New Zealand. Stop blaming the US for terrorist acts committed on foreign soil by non US citizens.
confounded (noplace)
We liberals didn't have to say it. This terrorist said it himself.
Tiny Tim (Port Jefferson NY)
@CosmosHuman Information and misinformation have no boundaries, especially in this age of the internet. Hating people who are different than you has always existed but those who use it for their own selfish purposes now have a global audience. We need leaders who will help bring people together, not further divide them.
Simon (Auckland, New Zealand)
When the tragedy was unfolding in Christchurch, I was at the local barber shop, having my hair cut by a muslim immigrant from Jordan. Hard working, and a father, like me, who just wants to raise his kids in peace. He is also a welcome addition to the fabric of our society - diversity in a small country like ours is a strength, not a weakness. I've seen the video of the massacre, I had to look, to see it for myself, and not shy away. Most of those killed, fathers and mothers, were executed in cold blood while lying injured. It was an act of cowardice so callous it was impossible to comprehend. I've visited the 8chan forum where this lunatic posted his manifesto of hate, and where he advertised what he intended to do. Where his actions were being lauded by other users. This is where the real cancer lies, in the dark recesses of the internet where madmen find validation and approval. Gun control won't fix this, they'll just find other ways. Where to from here in New Zealand? It's simple really. Expect to see an outpouring of support and aroha (love) towards our muslim communities, and those broken families, the likes of which the world has never seen. We need to show we care, and that they are us. Kia Kaha
Scott (Paradise Valley,AZ)
How could this happen with gun laws? Hmm.
AnnaT (Los Angeles)
Completely absurd “argument.” Do murder laws prevent all murders? Shall we take them off the books if not? Come to think of it, there’s no law that doesn’t get broken. Shall we suspend them all? Give me a break.
Ancient (Western New York)
NY Times: Whenever there's been a shooting like this here in the USA, you've updated an article called "How They Got Their Guns". Please be sure to add this New Zealand shooter to the article as soon as possible. It's important.
Joe (New York)
Facebook's business model facilitates murderous mayhem.
petey tonei (Ma)
@Joe, they are not alone. Entertainment industry has been selling violence since before Hollywood became a thing, globally.
Mike (Canada)
Racism and discrimination against muslims is common in NZ. This terrorist took it to a whole new level. Sad for the victims of this hate ideology
Tom (Antipodes)
New Zealand police are asking people not to watch the streaming video's - this is what the killers want. The services carrying the streaming should block them. Carnage of this nature and on this scale is never a public spectacle - it is an obscene, cowardly atrocity.
brahim (algeria)
I cant believe it ... Yesterday, I was on the map. I was hearing a state called New Zealand but I did not know it was in a semi-detached place. I read and searched for its inhabitants, its traditions, its belonging, and the geography of the place. I was talking about her isolation from the world and her people living in peace away from the hustle of people. There are Muslims on her land I was impressed by and I wished to visit her someday. In fact, at the same time she was carrying out this horrible crime. Praise be to Allaah. Was this a coincidence or a message? I am really shocked and I do not know what is going on? Is Islam becoming an enemy even on a land that I thought was so peaceful with its geography, nature and location?
Hugh Massengill (Eugene Oregon)
America shares its values and shows how its leadership creates love and hope throughout the entire world, one mass murder at a time. I have little doubt the animal who did this was inspired by American white power actions of the same sort carried out on American soil. One does wonder what "church" he attended. Hugh Massengill, Eugene Oregon
Nathan (New Zealand)
Let's not blame Trump, Kiwis. Clearly, his rhetoric is of no help but pockets of racism and stupidity were alive in NZ long before he was elected. That Norwegian loser spouted the same hate-filled nonsense in 2011 before his cowardly killing spree. These guys can pop up anywhere, at any time. Let's rally behind the victims and their families, reaffirm our commitment to a tolerant, multicultural society, and hopefully learn something about weeding out these crackpots so it never happens again.
Deborah Altman Ehrlich (Sydney Australia)
The shooter is an Australian in his twenties. He spent his entire life living in a country dominated by the spewing hatred legislated & encouraged by Australia's conservative party, the Liberal Party. These days it's dominated by extreme 'Christians', hypnotised by their white skins, English dialect, & the bottomless pit of their fantasies of righteousness. The current Prime Minister, Scott Morrison, is a perfect example. This is the result: as I write, 49 dead, and as many physically wounded; and no idea how many psychologically. The people who created this monster to win votes will never see the inside of a jail. They will happily retire with their fat parliamentary life pensions, the foundations of which are stacks of bodies.
Buzz D (NYC)
New Zealand needs to bar trump from entering their country ever. His hateful communications are infecting their country.
petey tonei (Ma)
@Buzz D, Scott Brown must be cringing, he represents Trump in this beautiful peaceful nation.
Le Michel (Québec)
A white Australian supremacist exports his version of 'your way is not acceptable' to another country. “There wasn’t even time to aim, there was so many targets,” he says at one point. America's playbook for the Iraq invasion experiment on a much smaller scale.
v (pittsburgh)
When, when, WHEN are we going to get some sensible regulation of the internet? The internet comprises public airwaves, in essence, and should be regulated as such. That someone can live-stream a mass shooting, AFTER indicating they were going to do so, is insane. TV broadcasts require several second delays for the purpose of preventing offensive content from airing, but the internet, which can be clearly be used for so much good, has also become an incubator for propagating the most vile facets of humanity. It is absurd that companies making billions of dollars invading privacy and marketing the most minute keystrokes of their users, are allowed to continue contributing to the deepening cesspool by saying they are doing the best they can to remove abhorrent content as soon as they are alerted to it. By then it is already too late.
Paul (Ramsey)
First and foremost, prayers to the family. Can we please get rid of Facebook? I think we all need to cleanse ourselves of social platforms. Time to re-engage and have personal conversations and experience real life. So more VR, love through other people’s awesome lives Let’s re-connect... but for real this time.
Kirby (Minneapolis)
@Paul You beat me to it. Has any good ever come from facebook?
Kaari (Madison WI)
Yes a lot of good has. People use it to raise funds for people in need. Small businesses often get more publicity there than they do from advertising in print or broadcast media. My friends and I use it to alert rescues to pets in shelters about to be euthanized for space. That said, Facebook is too big, too many employees worldwide are not well trained, and it needs to be broken up.
Melissa Duffy (Oak Harbor)
Today, one despicable man used social media to laud his egocentric, carefully planned murderous rampage. He callously killed innocent people in their places of worship, intentionally desiring to engender fear. His man misused the life force he's been given to destroy the lives of children, families as did those other persons involved in this attack. To the ones massacred or wounded, their families, their loved ones, my heart weeps for you and stands with you. To the police who caught these terrorists and to the emergency responders and all those who helped, thank you for your bravery and care. Our places of worship, regardless of our religion, need to be places of safety, peace and refuge.The killers designed this violence to terrorize innocent persons in the vulnerability of their house of worship. For Christians, those of other faiths and atheists, now is the time to reach out in support of Muslims, be their 'angels' take actions to ensure they can live and worship freely. Consider literally standing beside them, before and behind. Walk/drive with them to their mosques so that they know there are non-Muslims who care about their safety and well being. Now is the time for provide support, to offer to encircle mosques in solidarity so that those inside can worship in peace and feel safe and loved. Meet small-minded hate with the fierce eye of the eagle, forever free and insist on bringing out the best, not the worst in humanity.
Taha (Karachi)
This is just horrible and sad. My heart goes out for the victims and their families. May they all rest in peace Aameen. And can we please call it what it really is ‘A terrorist’ attack. That man had the intent for it he wanted to spread fear. I would like to see NZ government deal with him in a manner that further such incidents will not happen.
Hollis (Barcelona)
Several months ago a Canadian expat who lives in Wellington made an overzealous comment that gun violence is an American affliction but no country is impervious to hate. Healing with you, New Zealand.
M. Grove (New England)
“...a grim development in terrorism that raised questions about the ability of global tech companies to block violent content from spreading around the world.” This carnage is tragic and horrifying enough without it being multiplied by Facebook. Tech companies have proven time and again how amoral they are. Time for government to step in and regulate.
Boomer (Middletown, Pennsylvania)
Jacinda Ardern, Prime Minister: Take note of the name and the person, a picture of grief, but articulate in her expression of pain. "We were chosen (and I paraphrase) not because we support right wing fascist and white supremacist causes, but because we don't!"
EGD (California)
Evil comes in many guises, as always. The Sydney Morning Herald shows a graphic the murderer created for his manifesto. Among several others, the topics the shooter supports include: — Anti-imperialism — Responsible Markets — Worker’s Rights — Environmentalism Rightly condemn the evil this man is but do not try to shoe horn him into the usual left-right categories to advance an agenda. May the victims rest in peace.
Robert (Out West)
While I don’t think this is a great time for the usual squabbles, I think it should be said that this is complete nonsense. This creep wasn’t motivated by a desire to save the whales, or women’s rights, or any such thing. He was motivated by far-right, violent white supremacy, which he said and said all too loudly, and which is precisely what the “Morning Herald,” actually said, and said very clearly.
Ambroisine (New York)
Many commenters have asked what Facebook has done to stop the streaming of the murders. This is, to me, a misplaced question. As long as there is a public platform enormous as Facebook's , it will encourage murderers to show off and enact their hateful fantasies. The supposed tool for good has gone rogue.
Karen (Australia)
How have these white fundamentalists fuelled their unhinged hatred of religious difference? It's not one political leader alone. A perfect storm of decades of political dualism world- wide, increasing gaps in health, wealth and education, closed information systems created by social media and media, insufficient mental health services and ineffectual social media monitoring systems all incubate this rise of futility. Possibly 50 (largely ) white males could come together to address these issues in OECD countries. One wonders if it does not suit their premise to do so. I look at my children and hang my head in shame of what we are handing over to them. I can explain why such evil exists, but I cannot explain why it continues.
Larry Woldenberg (Sydney, Australia)
Terrible news! Social media, unfortunately, has become the purveyor of hate and shocking videos. The internet was supposed to be a blessing but has now become a means of spreading hate and dissension. I think free thought has to have limits and we must hold internet media companies to task. China has internet censorship. It can be done. Live video postings can be reviewed before being allowed. Freedom has to come with limits when the planet has 7 billion people. There will always be psychotic people to hold to account.
Sunspot (Concord, MA)
In this grave and tragic context, it is all the more imperative that our Congress pass a very public motion of censure against Mr. Trump's thinly veiled fascist threat to unleash his thugs against his opponents. Let us all take the time today to contact our representatives and senators.
Pete (Santa Rosa)
The wrath of the video game babies continues.
Nassir Hussein (NJ)
This isn't about NZ. The shooter chose NZ of all places because in his words he wants to sow discord and show not even the safest places in the world is safe for Muslims in the Western world. Well guess what? As an American Muslim, we aren't scared and we count our blessings that America is - despite the rise of right-wing hate that has been unleashed by its President - has more people filled with goodness and love than those filled with anger, Islamophobia, and hate.
James R Dupak (New York, New York)
Ideologies appear to be the great controlling virus of the human species. This particular group of lunatics had a virus, make no mistake about it, and it is spreading, mutating, and transforming at accelerated rates thanks to the powers of the Internet and social media. It is through communication that these viruses spread and fester. Just as we are able to get the latest news in mere seconds after a tragedy such as this, some of us are also able to absorb and disseminate the most vile and antihuman propaganda that the world has ever witnessed. Most humans, I believe, are resistant to particularly virulent strains such as this variant of White Supremacy, but there are many out there gorging on conspiracy theories and the increased confidence of like-minded conspirators through forums and the dark web. This will not be going away any time soon, I'm afraid.
James Mazzarella (Phnom Penh)
The killer of 49 in New Zealand cited Trump as one of his role models ( "a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose"). Trump has blood on his hands today, up to his elbows.
petey tonei (Ma)
@James Mazzarella, trump himself owes his white identity to folks like Steve Brannon. Add to it his newfound love for Christianity especially choosing pence as his VP. White Christian nationalism, sealed the WH for the couple, Trump-Pence. So glad PM of Ireland (of mixed Indian Irish origin) chose to visit Pence with his gay partner, so publicly.
Locho (New York)
I'd love to live in a country that went 29 years between gun massacres.
Alain (Montréal)
White supremacist terrorism at the same level than ISIS. Not much more to say. I hope NZ has the death penalty even if I am usually against it. Hate crimes and murders need capital punishment. My thoughts and respect to the victims and their family and friends.
Oceanviewer (Orange County, CA)
The entire world needs to take a serious look at the scourge of white nationalism/ white supremacy and not leave it up to those of European descent to tackle this problem with deep historical roots.
petey tonei (Ma)
@Oceanviewer, as well as violence. As long as we glorify fictional violence, weapons, use them for entertainment, we will be numb to the implications of "real violence".
Steven McCain (New York)
A terrorist comes in all shapes, colors and gender. The leaders of the pack who feast on making people fear people who don't look like them need to stop their rhetoric. Preaching hate and divisiveness works with one's base but when to objects of your hate turn the tables on you then what? People should be able to worship in peace no matter what name they call their Higher Power.
scientella (palo alto)
Horrendous. The left and right to blame. The right...well that needs not explanation But the left? Arden has been a polarizing figure in that she is text book politically correct and sometimes quite hypocritical. This makes the right desperate and crazed.
dianne manttan (Auckland, New Zealand)
40 people dead, and dozens with dangerous ICU injuries. Prime Minister says it is terrorism.
ART (Athens, GA)
Identity politics breeds division and violence.
petey tonei (Ma)
@ART, also territorial-ism. This guy from Australia was apparently motivated to kill “invaders” people who immigrated to NZ. His attack was well planned and deliberate targeting “outsiders”. He does not realize that white peoples who occupy Australia and NZ were also outsiders and invaders in lands previously and peacefully resided by aborigines in Australia and native Maoris in NZ (who themselves were sea fading Pacific Islanders).
TH Williams (Cape May, New Jersey)
“We have neither the intention to compromise with the U.S. in any form nor much less the desire or plan to conduct this kind of negotiation.” - Far, far Right North Korean government spokesman. As a civilization we need to decidly reject far right, white-nationalism, aka racism, like we thought we did in the 1940s, 1950s and 1960s. I guess we didn’t get the message out. This gross violence is connected, in too many ways, to the synagogue massacre in Pittsburgh. The Far Right Ultra-Conservative Dictator Un thinks he has the right to lob nuclear weapons at Japan. Another is keeping brown children in dog kennels. The tragedy in Christchurch foretells greater tragedies so long as certain leaders espouse a philosophy of hate, greed and violence. Education, love and peace can eventually prevail, after we finish teaching all our children that shooting each other solves no problems.
Snidely Snodgrass (Australia)
I am overwhelmed by grief that such a hideous crime of hate (terrorist attack) was committed at all but that it was purpetrated apparently by an Australian in the country of our closest friend and ally just makes me feel ashamed. If only we could have kept our own human trash within our own borders.
Celeste (CT)
This is another reason Facebook must be put out of business. It has no control of its content. Between that and selling everyone's private information, and essentially spying on them, the harm they do is more than the good of keeping in touch with far off friends and relatives.
CP (NJ)
@Celeste, something else will rise to take its place. The cause must be cured: people's attitudes. Leaders can lead us there. America's can't or won't.
Mildred Pierce (Los Angeles)
Sending thoughts of safety and peace and strength to all New Zealanders. I had recently visited Christchurch (and other parts of NZ, on both North and South Islands). I remember that CHC downtown area well. In every NZ town that I'd experienced, I encountered *only* warm-hearted, very down-to-earth people - so consistently, that it had been a jarringly pleasant adjustment! No surly attitudes, no threats of violence from strangers, no condescension, no meanspiritedness. There is a pervasive kindness, an open spirit that had touched me. This violent obscenity is not who Kiwis are; that's clear to me as an outsider. New Zealand! Remain strong! Show your heart to each other, as you had so generously to this traveler. Justice will prevail - and compassion will conquer hatred.
Carli (Tn)
Sending love and peace to our brothers and sisters in mourning.
Craig (Oz)
What did facebook do to stop this video? What have they done to stop its spread? I cannot understand people who would watch the video of this tragedy. Please show empathy and respect for your fellow humans by not watching them be hurt in any way, let alone this.
Jeremy (Missouri)
@Craig do you say this to criminals who hop in a car and shoot each other because they are in rival gangs or clubs. of course not.
petey tonei (Ma)
@Craig, whether FB took down the video belatedly, does not matter. The video is in cyberspace and scores of people have already seen it. People are so numbed by Hollywood, BBC, major networks, cableTV, now Netflix glorification of fictional violence in the form of thrillers, detective series, FBI, gang violence...that to many this livestreamed video is just "entertainment". Children are raised on violent video games and the toy industry lobbyists are so much in cahoots with the pediatric psychologists that they have not yet banned these games. How many more massacres do we need? How many more TV series do we need that glorifies murder mayhem violence just so people get a few thrills?!!
macktan (tennessee)
It's past time to demand a halt to the words, lies, attitudes, threats, & bullying that poison society and inspire the worst among us. Why do we allow the leader of the free world to daily broadcast lies & threats via the public airwaves? And why are the elected officials in his party supporting such vitriol? This only gets worse if he is enabled for two more years. Let's see some courageous leadership that puts democratic institutions, civility, honest talk & good heartedness over power & re-election fears.
Stephen Gergely (China (Canada))
Perhaps NZ will learn from the Aussies and ban all guns. I’m Canadian and hope canada also bans them as gun violence getting worse fast in canada. I live in China 25 and never heard of gun violence in China and its near impossible to buy them. China only has knife attack’s which are bad enough.
Craig Welch (Washington DC)
@Stephen Gergely Australia has not "banned all guns", although you certainly could not legally obtain the kind of gun used in this massacre. In both countries you need a licence. Most all farmers have a few guns, and you can acquire handguns to shoot with them at a gun range. In neither country can you "carry" a handgun.
EGD (California)
@Stephen Gergely Gun violence in China is commited by its communist government against the population.
Cato (Auckland, New Zealand)
@Stephen Gergely I'm 100 percent sure Australia hasn't banned all guns.
Phil Otsuki (Near Kyoto)
Very sad and distressing events. With deepest condolences to the families and victims, and to all the fine Kiwis who find their beautiful and peaceful country subjected to savage, hate-filled violence.
I.Keller (France)
In the "old" days all a crazy person could do to broadcast its deranged ideas was to harangue and yell at others in a public park. Internet in general and social media in particular have completely changed that and started an era where reason, facts and moderate views have very little edge against disinformation, "alternative facts", extremisms and all kind of manipulations. We all urgently need to think about what can be done about this spreading corruption of both information and minds.
Milton Lewis (Hamilton Ontario)
Is Trump capable of expressing genuine grief and empathy in the mass shooting of victims that Trump considers to be less than full Americans or true New Zealanders? Or will he declare that he is sure that there are fine people on both sides of this tragic equation?
EGD (California)
@Milton Lewis Your dishonest premise about the appalling Donald Trump considering anyone less than a full citizen is false.
dorothyinchina (Amity PA)
@Milton Lewis I don't believe he is capable of feeling empathy for any human being.
SVS (Madison, WI)
One more reason to get out of this social media platforms that allow themselves to be used to spread hatred around the world. They won’t get me back on it unless they prove through concrete actions that they are for something far better than greed. How can they possibly justify this latest blatant ‘glitch’ in their platform? They aren’t clearly doing enough, they continue to be the vehicle with which the worst among us spread their ideology.
Daniel Rose (Shrewsbury, MA)
@SVS, perhaps. But social media is also where many of the best among us spread their love. For example, how else could millions of women have come together around the world to celebrate their power just days after a paragon of hate was inaugurated as our 45th president?
Anna H (New Zealand)
The fourth Article in the Treaty it Waitangi (Te Tiriti o te Waitangi) is freedom of beliefs and religions. New Zealand’s founding principles is that everyone has the freedom to believe. Everyone has the freedom of access to whatever higher being they are loyal to. No religion, no belief, has superiority in New Zealand. What happened today in Christchurch - a city still scarred from natural disaster - undermines that Article. Undermines what it means to be a New Zealander. A kiwi. New Zealand is a nation formed by people coming to paradise, whether that was in 1500 or 2019. New Zealand is a nation who, despite a rocky history, strives to make itself paradise. Paradise for all. What I will remember of today, and what my descendants will remember, is not the anger. The hatred. The fear. It will be that every New Zealander who strives to be the best they can be is deserving of love, regardless of their past. A New Zealander is not determined by race, religion or belief. A New Zealander is determined by the love in their hearts, and their willingness to welcome others to paradise.
Kaleena (New Zealand)
Such a devastatingly sad thing to happen in a country that has forever felt so safe. Having experienced both earthquakes in Christchurch and witnessing people’s amazing resilience after losing so much, I know that the community will come together to support each other just like they did then. Extreme hate has no place in our peaceful nation. Thinking of everyone in Christchurch today.
Phillip (Australia)
As a resident of Australia but a citizen of the United States, I am sickened that an all too familiar type of gun violence has been exported to New Zealand and was apparently perpetrated by at least one Australian. I visited Christchurch with my family soon a few years after the devastating earthquakes in 2010 and 2011 and found the resilience of the remaining residents and businesses inspiring. I hope that they find a way to recover from this tragedy. I admit that I take for granted the relative safety of Australia and New Zealand where you normally do not have to worry about mass shootings or lock-downs. Only yesterday, there was shock that a New Zealand government minister was punched by an unknown man while walking to work in Wellington. And now this...
M.R. Khan (Chicago)
Another one of Trump and Morrison's "very fine people". I am quite familiar with both Australia and New Zealand and the Kiwis who identify with their Maori heritage as much as their Anglo-Saxon one are notably distinct from their Australian cousins when it come to rejecting racial and religious supremacism. Thus, it should come as no surprise that the killer was born and raised in Australia where Rupert Murdoch has long infected the country with politicians like PM Morrison and Pauline Hanson before bringing this disease to America. When will Murdoch and his minions promoting racially and religiously tinged "clashes of civilization" both at home and abroad be finally held accountable?
Bruce Stafford (Sydney NSW)
@M.R. Khan I am no Morrison fan but to say thet the that the Australian-born shooter in Christchuch was regarded by Morrison as one of the "very fine people" is shameful and in fact possibly defamatory. I'm surprised it got past the moderators. Morrison has condemned the attack, maybe clumsily by using Trump's and the GOPs "thoughts and prayers" phrase, but genuinely condemned it nevertheless. If Australia is the big bad racist country that you seem to imply, then how come hundreds and thousands of Indians and Sri Lankans have emigrated here along with their hard-earned money?
Johnson (Australia)
Heartbroken! I feel for the people of Christchurch, and feel ashamed of the Australian that led the shootings. Kiwis are strong and I know the people of NZ will rally around the survivors and families of those lost.
D.j.j.k. (south Delaware)
Connecticut is allowing gun victims families to be sued. I want to go one step further. Any Republican representative receiving any NRA money or gun company kick backs needs to be sued too. For too long the GOP have been letting the gun industry continue their daily massacre and this will stop it. Since Trump supports the NRA he should be sued. We must stop the sale of bullets in America and make all the gun owners pay a fee yearly to have the privilege to have a weapon. Make it expensive . I want no more bullets to be sold to the public just the police and military.
EGD (California)
@D.j.j.k. Should Democrats face lawsuits for supporting recent Democrat legislation supporting abortion right up to the point of full term delivery?
D.j.j.k. (south Delaware)
@EGD Abortion is wrong. God will deal with those killers. It should not be in our elections. Our founding fathers warned us mixing religion with our elections will divide this country and they were so right. The GOP is anti life by destroying our planet with coal and fossil fuel use supporting the NRA and getting us into 1000 years wars. You are no angels.
Lilo (Michigan)
@D.j.j.k. You can't just sue people you don't like. There has to be a damage and a law that allows for that damage. Supporting the NRA is a legal use of free speech. And no I most definitely do NOT want only the police to have weapons. Ask Fred Hampton about why that might not be the best course of action. Owning a weapon is not a privilege. It's a right.
Steve Fankuchen (Oakland, CA)
Those commenting who simply say the world would be a better place without guns are essentially in the same category as those politicians who send prayers after each mass shooting. Neither has anything useful to say about what one can actually do in the real world to minimize the slaughter. As to those who seem to think this is Trump's doing: the only relevant similarity between Trump and these early reports of the perpetrator(s) is that both want public notoriety. The best thing to do with both is to deny them fulfillment of their narcissistic compulsion. The more publicity given to these people, the more it tells others who want their fifteen minutes of fame that this is the way to go about it.
Melissa Duffy (Oak Harbor)
I'm angry. Today, one despicable man used social media to laud his ego-centric, preplanned murderous rampage. He callously killed innocent people in their places of worship, intentionally trying to engender fear. His man misused the life force he'd been given to destroy the lives of children, families. Evidentially three others have been arrested in this terrorist attack against Muslims. To the ones massacred or wounded, their families, their loved ones, my heart weeps for you and stands with you. To the police who caught these terrorists and to the emergency responders and all those who helped, thank you for your bravery and care. I am angry because the ones who were terrorized and brutally massacred were in their house of worship, peacefully praying Our places of worship, regardless of our religion, are places of peace, of refuge and need to be places of safety. The killer/s designed this to terrorize. I say, to all who are not Muslims, rise up, go to those who are Muslim, be their 'angels' and protect these ones. Stand on either side, before, and after Muslims. Walk with them to their mosques, as Christians, as Jews, as Buddhists, or as whatever is your spiritual persuasion, or as atheists. Now is NOT the time to stop the Muslim people from going to their places of worship for fear of being murdered. Now IS the time for them to go with the support and protection of those of all faiths providing a wall of prayer, protection, love and safety.
rwtogo (Toronto CA)
This and shooting along with others in the past confirms the point that words matter. Individuals who try to " Weaponize Language" that we read on many social media is a huge concern. Unfortuantly, today it was a Mosques shooting, in Ameirca it was a Synagogue shooting. My point is that we all have to be vigalent in how we express ourselves online with out try to Bully our points across to others. Going forward I would ask all religious communities to talk to their communities to and to be aware of extremists within their midst. I believe that one motivating factor of this shooting is the brought on via MSM. In regards to FB live streaming, it is hard to catch until FB until given notice.
ChristineMcM (Massachusetts)
Fifty people! Praying--still gunned down. Incredibly tough gun laws and a long process to ensure they are used successfully--still gunned down. And the gunman wanted to stir trouble in our this country, knowing we have such a serious problem with guns? The culture of hate and violence, associated with white nstionalism, is racing across the globe, committing atrocities in the most unexpected ways. My heart goes out to the families of the victims and to all New Zealanders who were blindsided by such hate, and as such, will never be the same.
Civic Samurai (USA)
Another senseless tragedy fueled by hate. Innocent people are turned into political props by zealots so convinced of their righteousness they proudly take part in ruthless slaughter. Unfortunately, this kind of depravity has long been with us. It's celebrated in of our holy books, both Christian and Muslim. It's celebrated in of our entertainment. It's the raw material of flags and national anthems, a primitive and brutal force that some seeking power shamelessly exploit. The personal tragedy of those who lost loved ones in New Zealand are beyond the comprehension of the rest of us. But we can all share in the sorrow that our species has reached a tragic stage where breakthroughs in artificial intelligence and god-like technology live alongside people mired in institutionalized superstition handed down for millennia -- and armed with modern weapons. Human beings need so desperately to grow up.
A. Stanton (Dallas, TX)
It will be very small consolation for New Zealanders today but at least they will not be hearing any of their leaders say there were “very fine people on both sides.”
USNA73 (CV 67)
Look more closely into the politics in NZ. Winston Peters is alleging that it’s ethnicity that determines whether people will have the same view as him on these issues – it’s not a matter of choice or preference of the individual. That is one of the strongest expressions of racism possible - It is often referred to as profiling - concluding what someone's views are simply by their ethnicitiy. It is awful. The point with all this is that Peters and his party NZ First are recidivists when it comes to the ethnic nature of immigration. He simply does not like immigrants that are not from countries he doesn’t approve of. This RW hatred is being used ll over the world today. It is a cautionary tale.
Basant Tyagi (New York)
The American war on terror has been, in practice, a continuing massacre of innocent civilians. It’s violent reverberations continue to shake the world in strange and disturbing ways.
Liz (Japan)
These events are truly awful, but I am glad that Prime Minister Ardern has used accurate language to describe them: terrorist attacks. Not "mass shootings", but a terrorist attacks. Media and politicians in the US should take note.
J c (Ma)
There are many fine people on both sides, of course.
John in WI (Wisconsin)
Would we have called this "terrorism" if it happened in the US? More likely, we would offer thoughts and prayers and call it a lone indecent by a deranged individual. Motivated by hate. Just like many of the mass shootings here in the US. It is terrorism.
Ryan (GA)
First Al-Qaeda, then ISIS, and now the White Supremacist movement. All conservatives, all right-wing terrorist organizations. It's really quite ironic. Ideologically, these people are comrades in arms with identical views on a wide range of topics such as the role of religion in government, the presence of arms in everyday civilian life, the place of women in society, and the general question of progress versus society's regression into medieval feudalism. Whether he wears a turban or a MAGA hat, the conservative fundamentalist seeks to wage international warfare against civilization itself in an effort to take the human race back eight hundred years into the past.
Bev (Australia)
As a person born in New Zealand my heart breaks such a sad day. The world news services have excellent coverage except for Fox News which is still talking about their beloved President. Lack of empathy for others so obvious.
Jan (Redlands, CA)
Too bad Facebook didn't have the integrity to block this streaming video if for no other reason than respect for the victims and their families. No surprise.
Calum (UK)
I abhor & deplore this type of extremism, and express sympathy for those who have so lost family-members & friends. Such extreme events are sadly occurring in many countries - anti-Semitism is on the rise and Christophobia is spreading with many Christians being massacred, and somehow that does not get the public media coverage to the extent that Islam is reported, and it seems to be seldom reported in the UK! Within the last week a whole community of Christians, in Nigeria, were slaughtered either by shooting or trapped in their homes which were out on fire. I in no way condone what happened in New Zealand, but it would appear more balanced reporting if extremism against Christians was also given even as much coverage as Islam cases do.
petey tonei (Ma)
@Calum, religions divide us, they become excuses to anti anybody. And sadly it is not just confined to Abrahamic religions. Witness rohingya massacre in Buddhist Myanmar. Tribal genocides in Rwanda. Sudan. Violence has been used by humans to kill other humans, how does it matter what nation religion tribe ethnicity culture!
Boomer (Middletown, Pennsylvania)
@Calum This is not the time for your concerns. I speak as a Christian and as a person who grew up in Australia. We grieve for our own Commonwealth family right now at this time. The religion of the victims is actually irrelevant. We are kin with New Zealanders. None of that is to say that we do not grieve for those victims killed in Nigeria last week.
M. Gessbergwitz (Westchester)
When are we going to accept that stuff like this will be the new normal in societies that chose diversity and multiculturalism over maintaining its cultural and demographic heritage? I don't see stuff like this happening in homogenous societies like Japan, Poland, South Korea, or Portugal.
Tracey Wade (Sebastian, Fl)
@M. Gessbergwitz This is happening for one reason only - ignorance. Ignorance that generates hate. And guns. Humans always find a way to 'fear' other. This fear is being manipulated for political purposes. Let's all work toward wisdom and away from ignorance.
Steve (Maryland)
The wide world of extremism and what value is this attack? Innocent people have died and nothing has occurred but unnecessary misery. My heart goes out t you New Zealand and I wish you and your country God's Peace.
FB (NY)
In the face of such a monstrous crime one naturally seeks a motive. What could drive a person to do such a horrible thing? Often the motive is obscure or hard to pin down. In this case the criminal has spelled out his motive in great detail. “In his manifesto, he identified himself as a 28-year-old man born in Australia. He listed his white nationalist heroes, described what he said motivated him to attack....” Well what was it then? What motivated him? The reporter oddly doesn’t say. I wonder why the reticence. In order to combat hate surely we must try to understand the actions of the hateful person and understand what drives him. It seems that too often there is confusion between explanation and justification, and it’s almost as though people are afraid of the explanation. But to explain is not to justify and one shouldn’t be afraid of it. It’s too easy to chalk things up to “hate”, simply. In this case the murderer is a nationalist obsessed with what he describes as a problem of demographics. His own tribe, he feels, is being threatened by the higher birth rates of other tribes. Soon the other tribes may become dominant and replace his. His action was intended to make his own nation seem less hospitable to immigrants. One might describe this as an almost ironic mirror of the story told by the original immigrants to New Zealand when faced with the native tribes whom *they* were coming to replace. It’s all a problem of demographics.
mark (phoenix)
Successful treatment of a social cancer requires strong medicine.
petey tonei (Ma)
@mark, violence is not the answer to curb violence.
EC (NY/Australia)
We love you NZ. We stand with you and honour your peaceful country. These actions are no way an indication of the life of the NZ people. The victims will not be forgotten.
Mirko (Mauritius)
So sad, outraged and disgusted to read these terrible news. I have a niece studying in this beautiful country, and we're always exchanging on how peaceful and tolerant it is. Her parents and myself have struggled hard to be able to cope with the financial cost of sending her there, and though her father and mother were a bit worried of how far from us it would be, i thought it was a good idea because it was so safe compared to all these big european countries where we hear so many horrible things happening almost everyweek/day. And now this! When will humans stop soiling everything they touch.
DENOTE MORDANT (CA)
No one and no place is free of mass killings. Sick individuals abound in this world to accentuate our prejudiced actions. There is no acceptable recourse that doesn’t deprive someone of their human and lawful rights. In other words, expect more of the same everywhere. Stay lucky.
Talbot (New York)
New Zealand has been seen by many as one of the last refuges--a place safe from the insanity and violence circling the globe. This bloodbath shows that there is no such thing. Any place is vulnerable.
Mark Crozier (Free world)
Here we go again... already talk about the guns. The guns did not commit this crime -- crazy people did! New Zealand has strict gun control laws and yet this crime still took place. Gun control can only do so much, that's the harsh reality. If a person is intent on committing a heinous act, they will find the means to do so, laws or no laws. Plain and simple.
Patty O (deltona)
@Mark Crozier From what I understand, this is the first mass shooting in NZ since the 80's. Compare that to the number of mass shootings in the US. So yes, if a person is intent on killing indiscriminately, they will find a way. However, NZ's strict gun laws seemed to have made a difference. Stop dismissing a policy that works, simply because it's inconvenient to you.
Chris (Paris, France)
@Mark Crozier I find it telling that gun control activists never mention the fact that gang gun violence in places like Chicago is performed by non-NRA members, nonwhites, with guns primarily bought on the street rather than with a license, and in Democratic fiefdoms with strict gun control. As long as they insist on obfuscating an important part of reality, no workable solution will be found.
Patty O (deltona)
@Chris And as long as NRA members, of which I once belonged as well, continue to spread misinformation, instead of looking at details of the problem, there's no reason for gun control advocates to bother trying to work with you. Chicago's gun laws are not the strictest anymore and haven't been for more than a decade. Please feel free to google it yourself and check. New York and Los Angeles both have stricter gun laws than Chicago and both have far less homicides. And I'm sorry, I find your reference to "nonwhites" very telling... and very sad. Another fact people like you generally leave out is where the guns are coming from. They're coming from other states with more lax gun laws, like Indiana. So ya, strict gun laws in one city isn't going to have the desired effect when they are simultaneously surrounded by states with very lax gun laws. In 2016, Illinois had 1490 gun deaths and a violent crime rate of 436 per 100,000. Texas has 3353 gun deaths in the same year, with a violent crime rate of 434.4 per 100,000. Arizona had a crime rate of 470.1 per 100,000. Nevada's was 678.1 per 100,000. Tennessee was 632.9 per 100,000. Missouri, 519.4 per 100,000. New Mexico, 702.5 per 100,000. Alaska, 804.2 per 100,000. One has to look at all of the stats to be able to figure out how to deal with the issues relevant to each area. The one thing I see they have most in common is poverty.
SusanStoHelit (California)
I wish the NYT would be less cautious about labelling this what it clearly is - terrorism. There can be only one thing to come from this - better precautions to prevent the Internet from being used to spread hate, better methods of ensuring the wrong people do not get guns. I only wish I had some hope that my country would participate in that. My sympathy to the people of New Zealand.
Robert Dole (Chicoutimi Québec)
Trump has made islamophobia popular. The NRA glorifies firearms. I wonder to what extent American white supremacy is to be blamed for the horror in New Zealand, one of the most beautiful and peaceful countries that you could ever imagine. All monotheistic religions teach us that we should strive for peace. Blessed are the peacemakers.
petey tonei (Ma)
@Robert Dole, white supremacy is not an American patent, it exists in subtle forms, in many countries, in Europe. Especially threatened by recent immigration, white nationalists have surfaced, their masters are silently at work. If you check Steve Bannon's connections with European counterparts, there might be a clue to how these masterminds influence politics business economy and religion (white supremacists are mostly "Christians").
Lynn in DC (um, DC)
My thoughts and prayers are with everyone in New Zealand. This is a terrible tragedy.
Paul (Greensboro, NC)
Love Trumps Hate. Humanity needs to learn that lesson. War and Hate are not the answer.
Vid Beldavs (Latvia)
This horrific killing has the potential power of unleashing cascading violence in other communities with vulnerable minorities. Leaders need to condemn the killings in the strongest possible way and call on the people to bury hate care for and love one another.
Mike B (Manila)
Where and how this guy (not a Kiwi) was able to obtain the assault rifle used in the massacre, will become a major part of this story in the coming days
Alexia (RI)
This is awful, my sister-in-law is there now as a tourist, having just come from the Middle East on a UN trip.
Perignon (Portland, OR)
Go ahead and accuse Donald Trump of fostering hatred and violence; few will argue the fact. But the ultimate blame here falls on the maniac(s) who felt that slaughtering innocent people is an acceptable choice in an effort to force change. It's easy to blame the wolves, but it's the sheep who follow those wolves we need to deal with.
chambolle (Bainbridge Island)
It seems mindless bigotry, right-wing extremism and mass gun violence are now among America’s major cultural exports. Heaven help us and the rest of the world.
citybumpkin (Earth)
This is terrorism. It is motivated by a political ideology. You could say the white nationalist ideology was muddled and there are, as of yet, no confederates. But same can be said of the ISIS inspired lone wolf acts in the early 2010’s. We’ll see how the NZ authorities handle this. But in America there is an already long tradition of treating white nationalist violence like one-off crimes, and even claiming the killer was “just mentally ill” when there is no actual diagnosable condition.
SridharC (New York)
You cannot escape the fact that some of these fringe groups were encouraged by Trumps's deliberate public comments.
petey tonei (Ma)
@SridharC, true...and all that anti muslim rhetoric elsewhere.. like in Modi's hindutva India. Sad.
SteveZodiac (New York)
Any word yet from the president about the good people on both sides?
James Wallis Martin (Christchurch, New Zealand)
We are a city that survived over 15,000 earthquakes over two years and have been rebuilding the city for coming on nine years now. We have come together as a community and this tragedy will bring us closer together rather than divide us. We have given people sanctuary from their war-torn countries and we will continue to bring them in and help them find a new and better life. No crazy Australia, white male with hate, fear, insecurities, and a fully loaded assault rifle is going to make us reject out true principles of acceptance and welcoming of those from around the world. The hope to divide will only make us more united. This deranged man learned nothing about the people of Christchurch and how we have persevered through natural disaster and now human disaster. We have rejected the fear and hate sold on American TV, we have rejected any notion that we are anything but one race, one planet. If we cannot determine shooters before they act, we will make it harder for guns to be brought in that can be modified into mass killing machines. We have no second amendment and this attack will not change the US and their unhealthy gun obsession, but it will change legal gun owners' rights here, first Australians will no longer be allowed to automatically convert the Australian gun license for a New Zealand one like they can now.
Boomer (Middletown, Pennsylvania)
@James Wallis Martin I weep with you and pray you will not be deterred from your path forward. You cling to your humanitarian values, your love of Christchurch and the wider world, your concern to offer peace and sanctuary. I use the word "pray" because I have no tangible way to offer my love and support. Your example will bear witness throughout our whole world.
r mackinnon (concord, ma)
@James Wallis Martin On behalf of most Americans, let me apologize for the “fear and hate sold on American TV” that you have correctly identified as one of the causes of racism and the incitement of violence against “other “ We are, most of us, absolutely sickened and disgusted by this virulent “export” and by the irresponsible, ignorant people that spew it and are, sadly, influenced by it, I am so very sorry that you have had to suffer a bloody massacre, the likes of which have become increased and almost commonplace in America. May the good in humans somehow help us all and prevail.
Jennifer Ward (Orange County, NY)
"Gun owners must be licensed, a process that includes a review of criminal activity and mental health, attendance at a safety program, an explanation of how the gun would be used, a residence visit to ensure secure storage, and testimonials from relatives and friends." Their government tolerated one shooting almost 30 years ago and immediately changed their laws which effectively reduced gun accidents and violence. Yet their citizens own a lot of guns. Americans on the right-can you see that these laws are effective and would work here without affecting the "good guys with guns"? I'm sick of my kids going through traumatizing and expensive lockdowns in school to enable the irresponsible stance of the GOP on gun regulation.
Anne-Marie Hislop (Chicago)
I wonder what contributes to the very low murder rate when there are "plenty of guns"? Are the licensing processes so effective or is it something else? The general attitude in this country, at least among gun manufacturers, enthusiasts, and the NRA is that there is nothing that we can do about the use of guns for violence. Yet, to say that the gun ownership process has no roll in the murder rate would be to suggest that human beings are simply different down under. I doubt that.
Kurt Kaletka (Watertown, MA)
@Anne-Marie Hislop – Probably the high regulation of guns in New Zealand is the determining factor. Guns are easier to trace, so illegal guns aren’t so common. I would think that America’s gun culture really does make it different from New Zealanders and other peoples. The fetishization of guns makes it harder to pass and enforce laws about them, since there’s an American thread of thought that seems to hold that we can’t be truly free without unregulated weapons.
Kim (New Zealand)
@Anne-Marie Hislop The low rate of firearm homicides in New Zealand largely comes down to the type of guns available and the extensive background checks on anyone who holds a firearm license. No, the guns themselves are not registered or tracked (which is something of a problem). However, handguns and assault rifles are illegal. Large magazines are illegal. Open carry is illegal. Firearm owners are required to keep their weapons locked up. If you shoot a burglar in New Zealand you will be prosecuted for manslaughter. The law is not set up to protect anyone's right to shoot anyone else. Firearms are meant to be for hunting and target shooting - nothing else. The end result of this less deaths. Less accidental shootings. Less "heat of the moment" shootings. Less firearm suicides. Yes, there are gun nuts here just like in any other country. However, most of us think they're weird and therefore they don't tend to flaunt their passion in public. This massacre is a huge aberration in New Zealand.
Cato (Auckland, New Zealand)
@Anne-Marie Hislop I think it's both. You can get guns in NZ if you want to, but it is treated as a privilege rather than a right (for example, you might not get a licence if you were to state that you need a gun to defend hearth and home; we would regard that as intemperate and likely to end badly). However, your typical NZer (i) doesn't regard, culturally, handguns as adding anything to civilized society, (ii) while being a big fan of hunting, thinks the animals should get every possible chance if it's truly sport and (iii) finds the concept of resisting the government in 2nd amendment style as absurd. It's also true that we have had a conceit about this, and have been pretty consistent in mocking the NRA "guns don't kill people, people do" mantra. Unlike the US though, we think both contribute.
J. (Ohio)
My heart absolutely breaks for New Zealand, a country and people I love. My family and I lived in NZ for several years and continue to maintain very close ties with friends there. New Zealand is a peaceful, civil society where no one even thinks about guns, except for hunting. I am profoundly sad that the peace of one of the most special places on earth has been shattered by the hatred infecting so many other parts of our planet. Stay strong - Kia kaha, New Zealand.
petey tonei (Ma)
@J., same my family lived in NZ for a decade and are still non resident citizens of the beautiful kind loving welcoming country. Golden warm hearts.
LTT (New Zealand)
Today is unbelievably sad for our country for so many reasons, many of which are commented on here. To understand our sadness and confusion as a nation, 49 people dead [at this writing] is about the equivalent of 4000 people in the USA. In this little nation, events like this feel extremely personal. I am proud of our reactions, led by Jacinda Adern our young and brilliant Prime Minister, our first responders and our citizens in general. New Zealand has been forever changed by today's events. But we will fight to retain our specialness , creating a culture that is strong, decent and inclusive. Kia Kaha New Zealand
Shane Wilson (Brisbane, Australia)
@LTT G’day my Kiwi cousin. Hang in there. We had our mass shooting in Hobart and we stood together and got through it, and NZ will as well. You’ve got a great PM, but I hope ours says the right things, given that one of the killers was Aussie. Cheers
J Upton (New Zealand)
@LTT No offence to Prime Minister, but it is a shame she had time to put on makeup when the nation was in deep shock and horror.
SteveZodiac (New York)
@LTT: there are people of good will all over the world who share your grief. We will end this violence.
Jo Ann (Switzerland)
Christchurch was my childhood town. I lost my home, my family's graves, and so much more with the earthquakes and now I lose the belief of a beautiful peaceful country protected from all the hatred blaring elsewhere. We are one world and we need to remember our humanity in times like these.
brahim (algeria)
Jo Ann Unfortunate thing that what happened to u and for this country its really sad and i pray for u .
Jo Ann (Switzerland)
@brahim Thank you. Together we hold onto love.
Dan Frazier (Santa Fe, NM)
While much of the attention is on guns, and rightly so, some of the attention should also be on social media and streaming video. If this does not force some changes at Facebook, Youtube and other web platforms, I don't know what will. First, if your country allows you to have a gun(s), there should be a price to pay that includes government monitoring of your social media posts. Second, instant streaming video should just be banned outright. Video (and photos, audio and even text) must be effectively screened by social media platforms before posting. If that means charging users money to upload content, or forcing them to wait three days before their video or photo is live, so be it. There are millions of people who desperately want to work, and these content platforms would rather pocket their profits and pay their executives and shareholders rather than hiring people to do the screening work that must be done.
Chris (Paris, France)
@Dan Frazier Umm, no, "government monitoring of your social media posts" is not OK, in any circumstance. They have that going on in China right now; you tell me if that's the kind of world you want to live in. I'd rather pass, thank you very much.
Aristotle Gluteus Maximus (Louisiana)
@Dan Frazier But that would do nothing to stop such incidents. They are going to cancel a massacre because it won’t be streamed on Facebook.
Shane Wilson (Brisbane, Australia)
@Dan Frazier Great suggestions mate. No one will implement though.
Julie (New Zealand)
As a (recently) former resident of Christchurch, it’s with great sadness to see this unfold. I agree with most other kiwis on their comments - we don’t have a gun control issue, nor is it a heated debate in any way. This is one (or a few) mans act of hate. The sadness comes from the fact that the Christchurch community is strong; 8 years ago, a community became closer-knit and worked together to rebuild a city. Immigrants came to help, people stayed and had families, the fabric became stronger and more colourful. As people struggled with the trauma and aftermath of the earthquake, neighbours checked on neighbours, people were inclusive with their community. This fabric will prove strong again. Thank you NYT for being considered in your reporting. Kia Kaha Christchurch.
Lilian (Toronto)
It’s heartbreaking to see the devastating effects of islamophobia around the world. The politicians and lawmakers need to listen to people when they say that islamophobia, anti-semitism, racism, xenophobia, homophobia and all other awful and horrible rhetoric white supremacists advocate for: is a real issue!White supremacy is a national threat to any country where this hateful rhetoric exists. My though are with the the victims and the families of the victims. May the victims Rest In Peace and may their families heal from this tragedy soon.
Calum (UK)
@Lilian You could include Christiophobia in the list of ”hatreds”, but it is seldom reported on in public media. Institutions which have benefited enormously from Christian practice seem now to suppress & even ridicule the Christian religion as if it is fair target for ”jokes” and the name of Jesus Christ is often profaned, even although that is offensive to Christian believers. My criticism will quite likely not be published because of what I am saying - and that proves the point.
Misinterpretation (GA)
@Lilian- While I certainly do not condone the outright killing of any group of individuals while they are minding their own business, we must remember that a "phobia" is an "irrational fear" of something. The word "islamophobia" was created to shame those who have a rational fear of being run down in a Christmas Market (Germany & UK), being stabbed or killed by machete, or having your head removed by one who follows islamic doctrine. They believe that all who do not follow islam are "infidels" and should not be allowed to live, and they preach this in their mosques. Our concern for Islamic presence in our countries is not unfounded, nor does is qualify as an "irrational fear. Those who believe that have been brainwashed.
Alice's Restaurant (PB San Diego)
@Lilian Have you Tocqueville's analysis of Islam v. American democracy? If so, then he's guilty of "islamophobia" back in the 19th century. This self-indulgent bourgeois ranting about "phobia" this and that ignores the reality, cultural Marxism isn't a panacea, but it does make everyone feel better, or so they believe.
Sheema Khan (Ottawa)
These attacks took place at two mosques, on a Friday afternoon, during the weekly congregational prayer. This is the time when mosques are filled with congregants. It was planned. According to news reports, the shooter began murdering people while they were in prayer - on their knees, prepared to bow to God. This was calculated. It has brought back awful memories of the Quebec City mosque shooting, when 6 men were murdered in cold blood by a right-wing, anti-immigrant male (fan of Trump; a consumer of online hate chat), and dozens injured. As a Muslim, it is clear that the hate spewed online must be reined in - through regulation. In Canada - as in New Zealand - we have tough gun laws. Yet, the hate consumed online spreads without much pushback. We must all unite against all forms of hate. Over the next little while, we Muslim minorities will feel vulnerable yet again. Please reach out to us. In solidarity. Against all forms of hate. Heartbroken from Ottawa, Canada.
rohit (pune)
@Sheema Khan The full video is there why speculate? I can say definitely that no one was on their knees. The worshippers were trapped and could not get out as the attacker came from the only passage. The worshippers were all in two big Huddle's trying to save themselves. They knew the attack because he shot some people in the hallway also. He finished one round, went back to the car and took another gun and came back. While coming back he shot people on the road near the mosque. He also drove over one of them (I think it was a lady)
Melissa Duffy (Oak Harbor)
@Sheema Khan Thank you for what you have shared. Today Muslim people have been dehumanized. You bring us back to our humanity and remind us how to proceed with healing.
Deb (Blue Ridge Mtns.)
@Sheema Khan - I am heartbroken with you. And I am ashamed that we have a president who has conspicuously done nothing to stop this kind of hatred and madness from spreading. Anyone who blindly denies his culpability in empowering the sick white supremacy movement has not been paying attention. Those of us who have been, stand with you.
PBV (San Jose, CA)
This is truly heartbreaking.
And Justice For All (San Francisco)
I just saw New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern's remarks on CNN about the shooting. I'm awed that she demonstrates much moral and active leadership in dealing with this crisis.
Arby (Wellington, New Zealand)
And thoughts—but not prayers—offered, which was a relief.
Smoog (Downunder)
@And Justice For All And tomorrow I guarantee she won't be claiming there's 'good people on both sides'.
steve (new zealand)
@And Justice For All she is a profoundly good leader you just got a peak . im shocked such a act has taken place here in nz against people im proud to call kiwis .who even after this violent act have and always will stand beside us. the shooter never will be a kiwi and doesn't represent the australia i know .
as (New York)
Multi Kulti does not work in Bangladesh or the nuclear powers of Pakistan or India. They have made no progess since Partition as we see in the recent news. Many people are drawn to NZ because they think they are getting away from Multi Kulti. Multi Kulti seems to work best in the US because, practically speaking, the US has no ethnic identification but even here it is not working all that well. While gun control makes a lot of sense in terms of cutting down on family violence and local sporadic violence a determined ideologue will get around it. This looks like a determined ideologue just like Al Quaeda and ISIS members.
Raj Shah (NY)
@as Most muslims, and Indians in general, there are almost like refugees from Fiji. That migration is much more than just an issue of multi culti or whatever.
Jennifer C. (Buffalo NY)
@as. There is no alternative to multicultural existence. I don’t understand why you would mock the term when it is an appropriate descriptor of human reality. Failure or unwillingness to co-exist among people whose ethnicity or manner of worshiping may differ is dysfunctional and has no remedy or outlet other than hate and violence. This is an ideological failure if in the marketplace of ideas, individuals are persuaded to join terrorist movements rather than live and let live.
petey tonei (Ma)
@as, if you were to do a dna analysis you would be shocked surprised to know that our entire human race is multi cultural. There is no such thing as purity it is all mixed. People who appear as “white” have ancestors who were thousands of years ago, migrating from Africa! Skin color is just that - skin deep, underneath we are one human race. Always were. And the universe rejoices in our multiplicity diversity plurality. Imagine how boring it would be if everyone was the same. Just look at who were attending the mosques, people from all over the world who observe Islam. Just like if you attended a church there are so many flavors so many kinds of churches even within Christian faith. Multi culturalism is a good thing, it is how humans evolved inhabited the whole planet..
Andrew M. (British Columbia)
We need to ask some pointed questions about how gun-sickness spread to a previously well country. The rarity of this crime in New Zealand means that we can reasonably ask how the murderer was incited. There will not be quite so many confounding factors. And if we find that talk show host X or rabble-rouser Y had influence, let’s see charges laid and lawsuits filed. It’s long past time to call these people to account. It’s grotesque to say that the victims should not have died in vain, but decent people could still maybe wring some small good from this appalling horror.
Chris (Paris, France)
@Andrew M. That's some pretty appalling logic. "Talk show host X or rabble-rouser Y" have the right to their opinions, and the right to express them. Societies advance when political discourse is allowed, and ideas are exchanged and/or challenged (even those you don't like), not when people live in fear of expressing their opinions. People who exert violence on others are responsible for their actions, no one else. Let's say some mentally unstable individual happens to be triggered by the phrase 'confounding factors", and believes that phrase is a coded order to go out and kill people. Are you willing to accept the responsibility for that? It was you, after all,who unwittingly uttered the order, right? Unless you're ready to accept the responsibility for any unintended consequence of anything you say, don't suggest that be the rule for others.
mm (east coast)
This is so sad - in my mind New Zealand was the last decent, peaceful refuge to get away from the ills of this world, particularly since the rise of Trumpism. I felt safer traveling alone there than anywhere else in the world. If not for family and friends, I would liked to go live there years ago. I hope its people will rally together against some of the worst American cultural exports : gun violence and white supremacists.
Ignatius J. Reilly (N.C.)
@mm I agree it's very sad. Note that White Supremacists have existed in Australia (and many other countries) for some time and America did not export it there. As evidence see the film "Romper Stomper" from 1992.
AE (France)
@mm MM -- France is chock-a-block with racists and white supremacists, too. Fortunately gun laws are stricter, making it harder to launch bloodbaths banal in the United States, though the Paris attacks were a sad exception.
Chris (Paris, France)
@mm I'd suggest you try out places in Africa or Asia where there are no White supremacists, and few guns. But I'm guessing you wouldn't really be interested in the trade-off.
Murad (Boston)
Why does the media not label this as a terrorist attack? The motive was political and multiple shooters were involved. It seems that the word "terrorist" is used to denigrate Muslims only.
Caitlin (Wellington, New Zealand)
@Murad Our PM has just declared it as an act of terror, so our news media will begin to characterise it as such. They have been referring to him as a white supremacist since the news broke, but were waiting for confirmation from police and the PM as to his motives.
NYKiwi (Auckland)
@Murad In NZ it IS being called a terrorist attack. Perhaps the US media is not including that but it is being deemed terrorism loud and clear here in NZ
Johnson (Australia)
NZ press is calling the abhorrent act of terrorism for what it is.
Red Sox, ‘04, ‘07, ‘13, ‘18 (Boston)
America’s worst (best) advertisement is the president of the United States. He took office praising the defenders of “the Second Amendment” as the antidote to all things un-American. He banned Muslims from America and has said “I am a nationalist.” He would probably say that the shooter is a “very fine person.” When unhinged individuals see and hear the American president saying things like this, his soldiers, wherever they may be, interpret his words of hate as a call to arms. He has inspired horrific acts of violence. I await his Twitter “thoughts and prayers” storm of lies. It’s what he is. New Zealand will never be the same.
AE (France)
@Red Sox, ‘04, ‘07, ‘13, ‘18 Red Sox : Yes -- Donald Trump is definitely facilitates such acts of folly, comforting extremists in the 'validity' of their ideas and actions.
Billy Jo Marshall (MS)
@Red Sox, ‘04, ‘07, ‘13, ‘18 Sadly, there appears to be NO way to remove the Trump stain from office. He can commit crime after crime and remain in office. In fact, he is likely to pardon himself making a complete mockery of our system of gov. With Climate Change demanding cooperation amongst humans, we are stuck with Trump. These are America's darkest days.
Deb (Blue Ridge Mtns.)
@Red Sox, ‘04, ‘07, ‘13, ‘18 - Thank you sir for stating so eloquently what my anger prevents me from doing. He is a cancer not only on us, but it seems to be spreading around the world. Bush blew the Middle East apart, trump is blowing us apart. Every day, he brings us shame.
Shaun S (New Zealand)
Weapon has been confirmed as an AR15 with a large capacity magazine, and arrested main suspect is Australian. I wonder if he specially travelled to New Zealand to obtain access to a rifle as AR15s are virtually impossible to purchase legally in Australia. Sporter configuration AR's with thumb hole stocks and 7 round mags can be purchased with an ordinary firearms licence in New Zealand. If shooter has Australian firearms licence may have even allowed to him to purchase gun legally locally. This incident will ferment violence and hatred. By law abiding New Zealand firearm owners against white Australians with similar values as those far right white Charlottesville marchers. I far as I know only one other shooting death incident has involved an AR15 in New Zealand, most shootings by AR15s here are by the Police. I'd find it very offensive for any American to post anti or pro gun comments at this time or anti immigrant, anti diversity comments.
Shaun S (New Zealand)
I'm upset as you can't get a soft target as soft as the New Zealand Muslim community. And I also think our gun laws are perfectly fine, I think border control laws need to tighten against the far right even if it means barring 20 percent of white Australia or 40 percent of Americans. Most New Zealanders would consider any body who watches Fox News to be extreme right. I wouldn't care if wearing a red MAGA baseball cap would be grounds for turning an American around at the border.
WHM (Rochester)
@Shaun S Sorry Shaun. We live in a highly integrated world and US citizens have a perfect right to use this event to try to figure out solutions. In fact, I find your comments pretty informative. I got from what you are saying that although AR15s are pretty available in NZ, this event involved a wacko WS Australian who took advantage of their availability in NZ. I cannot comment on NZ gun laws, and I expect that they are probably perfectly fine if something can be added to keep travelling white supremacists away from them. As you know, in the states we have a different type of problem. Guns are pretty available in all US states. In some places, like cities, AR 15s are not the main problem, since easily concealed weapons are much more useful, and sadly they are highly available to all. All types of guns are available across the country, and this is a problem for issues like suicide and the infrequent, but devastating, occasional mass shooting by a disaffected young male. US citizens mostly discuss these issues after massacres; random murders and drive by shootings are just too common to even register.
Slooth (Palestine)
“an extraordinary and unprecedented act of violence.” Terrorism.
Ann (California)
@Slooth-Just like the reckless words routinely mouthed by Trump, his Fox enablers and pundits. The fomenting of violence and hate has consequences.
Caitlin (Wellington, New Zealand)
@Slooth Our prime minister has characterised him as a terrorist. I hope the international news media will refer to him as such as our news media is doing here in NZ.
Woman of a Certain Age (Western US)
Hideous, and all the more so because it’s just like America.
Sarah (Denver, CO)
America? Sure. New Zealand? Unheard of.
DB (San Francisco)
I’m sorry this happened to people praying in peace. It’s tragic when anyone is targeted for someone’s hate to be unleashed. New Zealand always felt like a safe space in the world. For all people. Tone down the angry, dividing rhetoric yellow-head in the White House, and media please stop rebroadcasting his hate. Like a stone thrown into a pond causing ripples, words of hate against certain people has an effect. Stop the spread of such words. Spread stories of good will instead.
Bob (NZ)
It happened in New Zealand today. Someone, possibly more than one, opened fire in two mosques in Christchurch killing multiple people and injuring many others. There hasn't been a mass shooting in New Zealand since 1990 when 13 people were killed. As an American who lives part of the year in New Zealand I am used to hearing about mass shootings -- there have been over 100 mass shootings in the US since 1990 with 804 people killed and 1249 injured (this is from a survey of gun violence done by Mother Jones News.) 38,658 people died in the US from gun injuries between 1990 and 2016. I used to tell my American friends that Kiwi's were smarter about guns: used them primarily for hunting or pest control; had stricter rules on who could get a gun; had more requirements on how to safely store guns; and were just generally more responsible about guns. I still believe these are all true. But that was not enough to stop what happened in Christchurch today. Hopefully as we learn more about what happened and why, New Zealand will come up with new, rational ideas to prevent another mass shooting in the future. While we will all pray for the victims and their families, I believe we as a society need to do more. We have to stop promoting hatred and fear of people who are different than us. We need to help those with mental illnesses and make sure they don't have access to guns.; Finally, I believe we have to stop the spread of guns that have no use other than to kill another person.
CHB (Phoenix)
@Bob Yes, all those things are true. The US experiences these types of events multiple times a month; Kiwi's less than once a decade. We can never prevent all bad things from happening, but here in the USA we don't even try when it comes to gun violence.
Curiouser (NJ)
True enough. But real change comes when we stop tolerating bigotry. There has been and still is massive bigotry in country after country. Bigotry is the fuel for violence. Our education systems cannot focus solely on traditional subjects. We need to teach and model real tolerance and compassion. Our priorities as modern nations must reflect all humanity and not just specific incomes, skin colors, or religious beliefs.
Concerned Citizen (Anywheresville, USA)
@Bob: maybe each story is individual and stands alone. Not every mass shooting is terrorism -- sometimes they are just acts of anger from very sick individuals. There was no political agenda in Sandy Hook or Parkland and no specific groups were targeted, just the destruction of people -- children -- that the individual shooters hated. Also 100 mass shootings in the US in 30 years is not "several every month" as someone here alleges. I believe this article states that 49 dead in tiny New Zealand would be like 400 dead (proportionate to overall population) in the US -- meaning MORE proportionately lost here than all those US shootings. And the figure of 38,658 dying from gun injuries is very misleading, as most were suicides -- something liberals promote and admire -- and most of the rest were gang-on-gang drug violence. Nothing political in any of that. I too have always read how peaceful and evolved and accepting all New Zealanders are, and the nation is always held up as an example of everything the US is not. Maybe we don't really know New Zealand very well at all.
Paul (New Zealand)
Congratulations President Trump. You wanted the U.S. to increase exports? Your greatest export has even reached our shores, 10,000 miles from your hideout. Your message of hate and intolerance, the greatest pestilence of our age, has managed to darken our shores of light and peace and acceptance. You and your henchmen are on the wrong side of history. Enough is enough.
Texan (Texas)
I'm so sorry.
Dave (Albuquerque, NM)
@Paul Paul, I confess, I am not a fan of Trump. But blaming Trump for this shooting is patently absurd.
Ryan (GA)
@Paul I would suggest that it's not fair to blame this on Trump. But he has a perfect opportunity to publicly condemn these attacks, and denounce terrorism in all of its forms. Will he do so? No. Because the criminals are white and the victims are Muslims. After his fumbled response to the white supremacist terrorist attack on Charlottesville, we can only hope Trump will have the common sense to not babble some incoherent tripe about how both sides are wrong. Instead, we'll get dead silence. Or a tweet where he threatens to sic his biker gang on the Democrats.
Covert (Houston tx)
Muslims are the new targets of scapegoating, and violence. Shootings, being relegated to ghettos, and even death camps aimed at Muslims are a global problem. NZ is generally a very nonviolent country. This is a global problem.
Peasant Theory (Las Vegas)
One improvement is the NYT didn't name the shooter, but that is sure to change. The media won't name juveniles or victims of sexual assault, but can't see the good sense not to publish shooters' names giving them the noteriety they seek, guaranteeing another copycat attack, and making the media complicit in these atrocities. No one "needs" to know shooters' identities. Uh, from the limited information -rush to press? - they all appear to have contributed to his behavior to some extent: "He listed his white nationalist heroes, described what he said motivated him to attack, and said he purposely used guns to stir discord in the United States around the Second Amendment."
Ann (California)
@Peasant Theory-Indeed the shooter's "white nationalist heroes" are all likely U.S. born and bred.
Ephemerol (Northern California)
This deeply disturbed and hate filled piece of trash arrived just three months ago and is hardly a piece of the wonderful and caring culture in New Zealand. Remember at *all* times that these are 'cult members' with serious bad brains and unfortunately military grade weapons. Their lives were going nowhere and they were deeply damaged in early childhood, despite his denials. I feel _deeply_ sticken along with the rest of the world at this violence against civilized Western Culture. We need to locate these men and women in early childhood as they need special help very early on to help them succeed in life.
Barry Moyer (Washington, DC)
@Ephemerol How do you "locate these men and women in early childhood" much less actually go about reshaping their lives, and who decides these things? It looks to me that New Zealand doesn't really have a problem and that this unfortunate event was an extreme exception. Oh that we in America were as civilized as New Zealand!
Alice's Restaurant (PB San Diego)
@Ephemerol "Their lives were going nowhere and they were deeply damaged in early childhood, despite his denials." More post-Modern excuses. The person did it because he wanted to do it and felt a need to do it. Looking into his environment or lineage is to ignore the reality: Things--the cultural ethos--aren't as the government pretends they are. More important, just because these ideas or feelings are not expressed in the public square, does not mean they do not exist. Norm-shaming only works in Hollywood.
petey tonei (Ma)
@Ephemerol, I shudder to think that these cult like figures actually influenced our President, lawmakers ought to investigate Steve Bannon's presence in the WH, during the campaign and in the early years of the presidency. Much brainwashing likely happened because of this ultra right cult figure.
BoSox Fan (New Orleans, LA)
THIS sad and hideous act is truly an outlier in the NZ culture and polity. No functional society is immune to these regretful and heartbreaking situations. However, let’s take a look at the number mass shootings over the last 50 years in NZ. NZ has only done the right thing by their people. NZ residents are among the safest people on the planet. There are more mass shootings in the US annually than there are plane crashes worldwide. A mass shooting in NZ is a rare and tear jerking sad occurrence. My heart aches for those affected and I only wish that we in the US had the wisdom to govern ourselves in ways that made sure that acts like these were as rare as they are in NZ.
Greg (Seattle)
I blame fake “News” outlets like Fox News which has for years promoted racist, bigoted and misogynist ideology spewed out of the mouths of ignorant and bigoted commentators who claim that Christianity and white supremacy are sacred. They aren’t. It foments acts of terrorism lke this. I for one would like to see the bloviators on Fox, and the network, sued for a inciting violence. It is destroying the US, and is spreading to other countries. There needs to be a day of reckoning for Fox. Our ignorant and racist president is also contributing to this trend.
Martha Shelley (Portland, OR)
@Greg You'd like to see the bloviators on Fox sued? I'd like to see them behind bars.
Shane (New Zealand)
@Greg I might also wonder then, what on earth is Rupert Murdoch's game? Seriously, does he enable this just for money?? Surely he's in large part responsible for the ruination of the US and it seems he's happy to see the destruction spread.
Joseph B (Stanford)
@Greg Media matters is exposing FOX news advertisers. Maybe a boycott of their advertisers will put FOX out of business.
Beth Grant DeRoos (Califonria)
Hearing of this horrid event I thought 'New Zealand'? But I also said the same when in 2011 a white racist in Norway posted a 1,500-page manifesto online before unleashing a pair of attacks in Oslo that killed at least 92 people. Norway? New Zealand?
Concerned Citizen (Anywheresville, USA)
@Beth Grant DeRoos: American liberals who dominate these forums have always idolized Scandinavia and "down under" -- Australia and New Zealand -- as absolutely ideal lefty paradises, where all their favorite socialist policies are in full effect. But….maybe we don't know those places as well as we think we do. Clearly, they have their OWN terrorism, their OWN dissatisfied people -- their OWN crazies -- and their own homegrown hatred and bigotry. Blaming this on the US and Trump is pathetic and highly politicized, and does nothing to contribute to sane discussion of what really happened.
herne (china)
Call it what it is. A terrorist attack and a hate crime. Deliberate and politically inspired killing of civilians going about their normal activities.
Eliot Attridge (Blenheim, New Zealand)
Please don’t give oxygen to this evil terrorist. Don’t air his ‘manifesto’. Don’t link to his video. His victims didn’t get the luxury of explaining anything.
Kim (New Zealand)
This is an extraordinary and horrendous incident for our small country. Given that this gunman appears to have been very vocal online about his hatred of immigrants in general (and muslims in particular) I sincerely hope that our government launches an inquiry as to how he got possession of these firearms. There are angry, dangerous people like this in every country on Earth, but I genuinely thought that our firearm licensing system was doing a good job at keeping them unarmed. Our Prime Minister was right when she said that this gunman is not one of us. Anyone else in New Zealand who supports or cheers him on is also free to leave. You have no home here.
dianne manttan (Auckland, New Zealand)
@Kim Sadly, the main one is a white Australian. Not sure about the other two men and woman arrested. Heartbreaking.
herne (china)
@Kim I am sorry but to the shame of all New Zealanders, he is one of us. There has always been people like this in our country and although there have been malignant influences from outside, this is likely to be local in planning, supplying weapons and execution. We need to face up to the utter failure of the SIS, our domestic security service, and the NZ police in not seeing this threat. The rest of us have to bear responsibility for regarding these bigots in our community as harmless nutters.
Griffin (Midwest)
@Kim your country's gun laws are doing a great job. We in the US passed that number of gun deaths halfway through January 1st of this year according to gunviolencearchive.org but it's spread out so we never "see" it. I am so sorry that our US insanity has spread to your country.
NJLatelifemom (NJ)
Sending thoughts of love and peace to all of the citizens of New Zealand.
Bryce (New Zealand)
Firstly this is a terrible, terrible day for NZ. The entire country is in shock. Some of the commentary in this story is exaggerated and some needs to be put into context. The article is correct to say that there aren’t many murders here, however, to say that there is a ‘heated political debate’ over guns is just not true. This is never discussed or debated by the left or the right. In New Zealand the political parties on the left and on the right both operate largely in the centre compared to many other western countries. Many people in NZ own guns because there is are large farming and hunting communities. Hand guns in NZ are illegal. To own a rifle you need a license which is strictly controlled by the NZ Police.
Steve Fankuchen (Oakland, CA)
@Bryce Bryce, thanks for adding some useful perspective, something sadly lacking in the "Breaking News" paradigm of contemporary media, where being first transcends being right.
Craig Welch (Washington DC)
@Bryce Handguns in New Zealand are *not* illegal. What is illegal is "carrying" a handgun in the American sense. Many people have handguns for competition purposes. They can only be taken from their container on the gun range.
Concerned Citizen (Anywheresville, USA)
@Bryce: thank you. But simply making things illegal does not make them disappear. I assume hard drugs are illegal in New Zealand but I'll bet you still have drug addicts and drug dealers. Stealing is illegals, but people still commit theft & burglary. Obviously the four shooters here -- one an Aussie! -- were able to circumvent what we are told are "strict gun laws".
mc (New York)
What awful news to read as the day closes here in New York. My heart aches for New Zealanders, who surely thought this kind of gun violence would not strike them. New Zealand has such relatively strict gun control laws, which I hope we will one day have here in the US. That will certainly decrease mass killings here. But how do we change the modern psyche, which is so much more prone to violent acts, violent speech, violent thought, which seemingly pervades the entire world? In the meantime, thinking of those in Christchurch with tremendous sorrow. I am so sorry that what we see so often––too often––here has befallen your beautiful country.
annpatricia23 (Rockland)
@mc. Thank you for this thoughtful reply.
slime2 (New Jersey)
I feel sorry for the New Zealand and its people. I feel sorry for Christchurch which after 8 years is still recovering from the earthquake which killed almost 200. That being said, elsewhere is today's Times is an article about Facebook and it's future direction. I have to say if its future direction is to be a more responsible company, how could it let the Christchurch shooter live broadcast his terrorist rampage. I wish Facebook would think about how to immediately take this stuff down instead of thinking of new ways to monetize such content. If this terrorist didn't have access to these social media apps, maybe more people would be alive today. It's becoming more like anti-social media, and the heads of these companies do not care. I hope Mark Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg view the entire 17 minutes before going back in front of Congress and lying again. These terrorists want publicity. Unfortunately, innocent New Zealanders were the target and Facebook became an integral tool of terrorism.
AM (Sydney)
@slime2 Totally agree about Facebook. The 'live' broadcast video capacity needs to curtailed and definitely not 'public'. In fact all posts ought to be on a delay system that filters them for content before they go public. This is such an irresponsible global media company. I don't call it a social media company. It's just a media company and needs much much tougher regulation.
On the coast (California)
@slime2. Your last sentence says it all.
KBronson (Louisiana)
When people are dehumanized because they think differently, anything becomes possible.
Woman of a Certain Age (Western US)
@KBronson, people aren’t dehumanized because they think differently. You’re blaming the victims. These innocent people were murdered by evil, horrible, hateful monsters. Their fault. No one else’s fault. Certainly not the victims.
KBronson (Louisiana)
@Woman of a Certain Age I am sorry that my comment lacks clarity. “Dehumanized” refers to the perspective of the subject, not any quality of the victim. In the shooters minds, the victims lacked some basic human quality that made it possible for them to kill them. We all do it to a greater or lesser degree and with greater or lessor specificity. Commenters on this platform and every other do it all the time.
Suzanne Moniz (Providence)
I'm sorry this hate has reared itself in such a horrendous way in New Zealand. This must be a terrible shock. Please don't let it become shockingly normal. I trust good people won't.
Doug Fuhr (Ballard)
Another crazy, deluded by his weapon into thinking he can influence world affairs. He is no more influential than the crazy lady who started screaming at the back of my bus just now, tried to damage it, and was carried off. The only difference is that he had an automatic weapon and has caused immense grief for many.
fast/furious (Washington, DC)
What a tragedy for the beautiful country of New Zealand. This is what happens when a group of people are demonized and dehumanized, branded as "other." This kind of demonization occurred in the United States beginning in 2017 with the administration's "Muslim ban" and it continues to this day as various groups are demonized by the current administration - including holding small children taken from their parents in detention camps even if it means allowing an arm of the state to torment little babies. My thoughts are with the people of Christchurch.
Yuri Pelham (Bronx, NY)
Yes I predict this will be shown to be a US export.
Concerned Citizen (Anywheresville, USA)
@Yuri Pelham: I am sure the investigation will reveal that Trump was actually there, and did all the shooting himself personally, while in disguise in one of those "Mission Impossible" rubber masks. It's gotta be, since the US is guilty of everything always.
MFinn (Queens)
As a Kiwi living in New York, (a) I apologize for this disgusting behavior in my homeland, and (b) you Yanks own part of this--not all of it, but part of it.
Michael McKay (New Zealand)
As an American living in New Zealand (now also a citizen of New Zealand) I completely agree. This is the worst of American culture manifest here in New Zealand. My only hope is that our reaction to this will be more humane than what we see in the US. Beyond support for the victims and their communities, its time for more serious gun control measures here in New Zealand. Right now gun owners are registered but not the guns. We need both.
M.R. Khan (Chicago)
@MFinn Well said, this is alien to Kiwi culture which has long prized its multi-cultural heritage from the Maoris. This was a spawn from Trump and Murdoch who literally arrived from abroad to carry out his evil precisely because New Zealand represented the anti-thesis of everything Trump and Pauline Hanson stand for.
Lilo (Michigan)
@MFinn A White Australian commits terrorism and murder in New Zealand because he's inspired by Breivik and disgusted by non-white immigration into France and the UK but this is an US problem? Not seeing that.
Eric Strunz (Atlanta)
A sad day for New Zealand and everyone worldwide who wants religious tolerance and peace. I also appreciate the Times' decision to not publish the name or photo of the gunman. As a subscriber, I deeply respect this editorial discretion and do not feel like any newsworthy details were missing from this somber report.
Nightwood (MI)
Is the human experiment doomed? If we don't have leaders of so called powerful nations threatening each other with nuclear weapons, we have zealots in small numbers and "small" weapons doing it for us. We better evolve fast or we are doomed to fail. The rest of the Animal Kingdom are waiting. May all those lions, tigers, elephants, and other small creatures world wide win. We may have "big" brains but are we too stupid, too evil, to actually exist? Peace unto this rare, life filled planet. Humans no longer wanted.
Yuri Pelham (Bronx, NY)
We are a mistake of evolution and will become an extinct species in several hundred years. The planet will benefit.
petey tonei (Ma)
@Yuri Pelham, we are NOT a mistake. We have built-in inside us the ability to learn from our mistakes and not foolishly repeat them. History teaches us lessons, but we ignore them, every generation repeats the same mistakes because they have a stubborn streak and want to see how far they can go before they have to "pay" for their mistakes. And wealthy rich people keep going because they are never questioned, or if they do, they are let go, lightly. We have a President before us whose parents were epic failures, who never taught him honesty decency respect honor kindness and authenticity.
Shahbaby (NY)
@Yuri Pelham I concur completely...
James (Canada)
It is yet another terrible tragedy and a call for all of us to rise up to our responsibilities. To speak out against prejudice and racism and intolerance and hate and those that traffic in bigotry. Those that cave-in to fear and hate are giving the lifeblood to those that traffic in bigotry so they can achieve their goal of bringing people down to their pathetic level. I’m so tired of the fear and hate people have in their hearts. The only way to beat fear and hate is with hope and optimism. Its so incredibly sad.
Daniel Kauffman ✅ (Tysons, Virginia)
These occurrences are the result of two things lacking in acceptable quantities relating to valuation and self-care. The valuation of the worth of individuals is necessary for both the economic viability of the community and the wellbeing of individuals. We need better measures and safety nets to bolster the economic value of individuals. Individuals who have high levels of self-esteem and integration into the community for mutual betterment are vested in construction, not destruction of the community. When we talk about self-esteem, we need to talk about the entire landscape of individuals’ mental health issues. Self-care is central to individuals’ self-esteem, their creation of a valid and viable social contract, and the contributions they make to the community in coordination with others. In a globalized world, a global mental health and economic standard for individuals is required. It is the foundation upon which individuals’ rights will be built, and it is the only way the world will move forward.
winteca (Singapore)
The economic value of individuals? I suggest you push economics aside for a minute and focus on the intrinsic human value of individuals. That is what is really missing in this picture, especially in the U S where unless you have "economic value" it seems you barely count as human and get treated accordingly (homeless people, 'welfare' recipients, death penalty).
Lance Pawley (Auckland, New Zealand)
It isn't fair to say gun laws are source of "heated political debate" here in New Zealand. It is very long and involved process to become registered so you can own a firearm, and handguns as well as military style assault weapons are generally banned. You can own a hand gun if you are a registered collector, but that's about it - you certainly cannot carry it in a public place, either overtly or concealed. I think it would fair to say that the "general" population of our country do not believe handguns, nor military style weapons, have any place in our society. I certainly cannot remember the last time we had any debate on gun ownership, let alone heated political debate.
Sandra Hunter (New Zealand)
@Lance Pawley, I agree, there is no "heated political debate". Perhaps the only thing debated in recent years is whether our police force should be armed. For those who don't know, regular police do not carry guns as a general rule. They may have them for a specific purpose, and we have a special group called the Armed Offenders Squad who respond to events involving guns. Otherwise they just have a baton, pepper spray and access to a taser. There is no debate in the general public about guns, most people agree they should be highly regulated and restricted.
Barbara Reader (New York, New York)
@Lance Pawley Thank you for that information.
Ian (Los Angeles)
It actually did a lot of good. Their annual murder rate is and has been extremely low, especially compared to ours in the USA. This one incident doesn’t in any way prove that their gun restrictions don’t work; on the contrary it just suggests that they should be even stricter.
Sandra Hunter (New Zealand)
I am in shock, this just doesn't happen in our country. As the article states, the last time this happened was in 1990, nearly 30 years ago. The rise of extremism around the world has even made it to our "hidden" corner of the world. The difference between the US and NZ is that this event will mean that gun laws will be tightened even more and very quickly. I'm sure all parties in parliament will support this.
Perspective (Canada)
@Sandra Hunter Just so - but, as another member of one of the Commonwealth nations, I am in shock that NZ does not have any form of gun registry. How naive is this? And why not? I certainly hope that "all parties in Parliament" will support registration; I just can't imagine how it was not already a fait accompli.
me (AZ, unfortunately)
@Perspective Can you explain how a gun registry would have changed this tragedy? I'm not opposed to strict licensing to obtain weapons, but once someone possesses a weapon, how would a registry help prevent its use to attack innocent victims?
Sandra Hunter (New Zealand)
@Perspective We don't have a gun registry but we have a registry of gun owners. But I am sure that a gun registry will be enacted soon.
Skillethead (New Zealand)
This is an incredible tragedy for New Zealand. It cuts at the core of who Kiwis are. I'm an American who has lived in New Zealand for the past twelve years. Many New Zealanders live in rural areas and will have a .22 rifle or a shotgun for shooting possums and rabbits. Police checks are thorough for obtaining a firearm and have to be renewed. Handguns are essentially illegal. You never see a gun in a public setting.
Sara (California)
I'm sorry to see the cancer of violent, bigoted hatred metastasize to New Zealand, considered by myself and I'm sure many others to be a peaceful and safe country. It is a sad reality that I wish all nations could go without realizing, unlike the US. This targeted, rightwing violence towards religious and minority groups (Tree of Life shooting, the Bloomington mosque bombing and Portland train stabbing) is on the right and must be recognized and discussed as a serious domestic and international threat. My thoughts are with the people of New Zealand.
Kathy (Australia)
So sorry to hear this news. 😔 Poor Christchurch residents..already having coped with a major earthquake tragedy!
dutchiris (Berkeley, CA)
Guns are a curse on the entire world. Yes, people would find other ways to kill their fellow human beings, but at least it wouldn't be a simple matter of buying a weapon, loading it will bullets and using it to kill as many people as possible in a rampage of murder.. A world without guns for any reason would be a better world.
lmp33 (New York)
@dutchiris Thank you so much for your comment and for letting me know there is another person who feels the same. The data backs your sentiment. (I teach mental health to graduate students training to be clinicians.) When there is less access to guns and fewer guns, deaths by gunfire decreases. May I borrow this heartfelt sentiment? "A world without guns for any reason would be a better world." I used to travel often to a country where not even police carried guns. Wouldn't that be wonderful too? My prayers for the families and those lost.
Mike (Austin)
Guns are only a curse until the only ones with guns decide they want to remain in power forever and you have no way to fight back. As if there aren’t enough examples of governments violently suppressing their people throughout history.
dutchiris (Berkeley, CA)
@lmp33 I'm certain that this sentiment is shared by many, many people.
Weehuddy (New Zealand)
I would just take issue with the last comment . There is no ' heated gun debate ' in any way comparable with the United States , people do have guns for hunting , and gangs are tooled up with all manner of weapons mainly stolen from the Armed forces . Police don't open carry , I have two relations that spent time in the Police Armed Offenders Squad , one is Gung Ho for arming the police, the other , a recently retired area commander is not . The average kiwi in the street doesn't give a rat's about guns or gun laws , nobody except a few in the Security industry carries sidearms and they are very hard to get . I have a friend that does competition target shooting , he was scrupulously checked , has to renew his licences every year , they must all be kept in a safe and the police can drop in to inspect them at any time night or day , with no notice ,and if they are not it the safe they can be removed instantly . Like anywhere there are small groups of loonies that want to have a private armoury , but nothing like the gun mania that grips Americans
Noel (California)
This is totally accurate. This American lived in New Zealand for years. Guns there are for hunting. I never once feared getting shot there as I do in the US. I'm so sorry to see this horror spread to my former, and always in my heart, home.
Concerned Citizen (Anywheresville, USA)
@Weehuddy: but the article clearly states you guys have 1.2 MILLION guns in a nation of only 4.6 million. That's a LOT! that's like one gun for every 4 people. In the US, we have about one gun for every 3 -- not such a great difference, and we are vastly larger than NZ.
ChristineMcM (Massachusetts)
I sure hope New Zealand isn't catching what ails us in terms of gun violence--though the article does state that gun issues are as fractious there as here. That said, their gun permit process sounds far more onerous, so I wonder how the gunman obtained his weapon of mass destruction.
Peter P (Singapore)
@ChristineMcM As other posters have mentioned, gun issues aren't in the slightest bit fractious in NZ. I spend many months there every year and have never heard anyone, anywhere, talk about gun control. Not sure how the NYT got that so wrong. But now they will. Which is really sad.
Liena
@ChristineMcM The silence of the interfaith community is deafening. We are an American and German couple currently traveling in Oman and Dubai . Muslim community could not be more friendly . The only thing extreme here is the very low crime fate and overall cleanliness. Thank you
MN (Michigan)
@ChristineMcM Gunman is an Australian only been in NZ for 3 months. did he bring the gun with him???