“It’s a waste of your energy to be hating on astrology, because we really aren’t out here trying to harm people” OK, but you aren't helping them either, suggesting that people make decisions based on non-sense.
3
Like religion, astrology offers grifters an audience to persuade others and make them want to believe in something, and make it so it somehow benefits them.
1
"Astrology has soared in popularity in recent years, particularly among young, female and queer online communities."
I clicked on the linked article and it didn't mention anything about queer, gay, or lesbian communities. What's the evidence for the reporter's assertion?
3
When astronomy is playing second fiddle to astrology it is a tragic reflection on the state of our education. Astrologers are charlatans enriching themselves at the detriment of naive and ignorant people. How can they believe in this none sense and pursue technology, all science based at the same time? It is beyond my understanding.
3
I had my wallet stolen on Friday, a colleague was hit by a car on Thursday, someone at work called in sick also on Friday....something was up! I blamed it on the ides of March but perhaps it is Mercury’s doing....or maybe just a coincidence to be sure.
Is there a science that studies the human need to find relevance reasoning and explanations when many things go awry at once?
This article is a subtle experiment by the NYT to gauge the level of scientific awareness and thinking of their digital audience.
Thank you for your data point.
3
Most people misunderstand what Astrology represents. They have the misconception that Astrology claims that planets “control” our lives. The accurate statement would be that the archetypal representations of the planets "reflect" our lives as evolving souls and evolving societies - like a mirror reflects our image - like a dream reflects our psyche.
In its most valuable form, Astrology is a psychological tool for greater insight. At its core are the concepts of reincarnation, the karmic lessons of this lifetime, and the evolution of the soul. The psychoanalyst, Carl Jung, considered it useful when greater insight was needed.
We limit the confines of our soul and psyche to boundaries we can comprehend, and dismiss that which we can't. The densities of our minds can't comprehend what is beyond our knowing. Scientific knowledge is like an ever-expanding balloon. We only know what we know so far. We still have so much to learn.
1
I've never followed astrology on any serious level. That being said, if the moon's gravity can affect tidal change and adult humans are around 60% water, I have to entertain the notion that it may be having some affect on us (I've spent enough time working in ERs during full moons to make a circumstantial case). Expanding this out to the rest of the solar system where all planets are having some gravitational affect on one another, thus keeping the whole system in place, it might be reasonable to assume that distant gravitational pull could affect us in some minuscule way. If we throw my admittedly simplistic understanding of Chaos Theory into this mix where the smallest action in one place may create, over time, larger actions in another...Well, I just can't rule out the possibility of astrology. On the other hand I could just be full of ....
@Eric Of the 2 hypothesis, I go for #2. Let's just talk about gravity: Yes, gravity exists. So? Why would that effect anything that Astrology claims to have influence over? Yes, the moon and sun 'pull' on water - and everything else, so your water content is not in any way a factor. All other gravitational effects you mention are completely overwhelmed to insignificance by the proximity and mass of the Earth in any case. Jeesh.
1
The power of astrology isn't "the motion of the planets can influence events here on Earth." It's a 3,000+ year old data set of human patterns. The reason astrologists are more successful than most at predicting things is the shear immensity of the amount information they have to work with. Imagine what humanity will be like when genetic scientists have even .01% of that history to draw from...
@Patrick Mallek "The reason astrologists are more successful than most at predicting things..." Who says they are?
2
When Goldschneider and Elffers wrote the Secret Language Series, starting in 1997, including the Secret Language of Relationships which was based on their new astrology field, which they called Personology, it revolutionized and made astrology relevant for a new generation of people, including me, 21 years ago, at the ripe old age of 27.
What I learned years later was that the authors did 40 years of biographical research to come up with that and the other books in the series. As do most serious astrologers. The vibrational astrology program I am in is based on 45 years of research. It just happens to be qualitative research.
Meanwhile, the good old folks who happened to put in the Wikipedia entry for this one refer to it as pseudoscience, apparently not knowing what the term qualitative actually means. Somebody please protest the entry, or better yet, alter it.
1
I have a sometimes clear view to the western horizon and have seen the planet Mercury a few times. Ir's kind of bucket list thing. And I live on Mercury Drive.
3
i used to be an Virgo, but I went to Denmark and had it changed.
9
So it's become more popular, especially with "young, female and queer online communities?" Something about this statement seems both unprovable (is there really a good sample of opinions categorized?) and slightly slighting to all communities involved.
5
You know, with so much madness and misinformation in the world these days, and some of it leading to acts of violence, and with many important, real, scientific crises at hand, I do not have any time to find this nonsense "cute."
We need to buckle down. Astrology is not "fun" -- it is an example of how modern citizens abrogate their duty to be rational, and given events these days, I have no patience for this garbage.
Do better, Times.
6
@pjc
What a thoughtful entry. /s
2
How many ways have humans tried to figure out the universe? Astrology is just one of them. If it helps someone somewhere understand something, then I say bring it on. As they say in Men in Black, "Fifteen hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat. And 15 minutes ago, you knew that people were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll knew tomorrow."
5
“It’s a waste of your energy to be hating on astrology, because we really aren’t out here trying to harm people,” she said.
Unless you consider gulling people and scamming them into wasting money on useless junk as harming them. And then there's the story of the college prof who passed out horoscopes to each of his students based on their birthdays. They agreed that the horoscopes were pretty accurate, Then he pointed out that they were all identical and just made up. Bunk is bunk, whatever you may call it.
4
Younger people are less likely to reject astrology, per this article. They are also less likely to reject socialism, also per NYT. Seems like those open to fantasies can have more than one. I am concerned about our future.
2
Look up manglik (Mangal Dosh). Some women get C sections to avoid giving birth 'under mars'. Women born as manglik can suffer discrimination. Marriage proposals can be refused to male mangliks.
Astrology is not harmless.
5
Unfortunate that the NYT despite decrying fake news and anti-vaxxers, is now legitimizing astrology.
I do think that a widely held perception that Trump and Salvini are anti-vaxxers is partly responsible (together with the measles outbreak) for the visible shift in opinion in liberal circles. Which is great!
Maybe Trump should express his admiration for this particular pseudoscience for NYT to finally drop its support.
3
I hope the NYT can once and for all bury the old saw of astrology being a 'pseudoscience'. Astrology is no science, period, no serious astrologer ever claimed it to be one. It solely belongs to the art of interpretation, as do other domains, literature, art, theology. It is part of the humanities, not the natural sciences.
Ms. Miller and Ms. Nichols may be 'famous' but their writings are both shallow and, to put it mildly, disingenuous. They play with people's credulity. Serious astrology is a totally different world.
6
@Christian Campe I looked up oxymoron in the dictionary and found "Serious astrology" as the first entry.
1
First of all, it is not an 'optical illusion'. It is straight forward orbital mechanics. Sir Isaac figured it out 4 centuries ago.
Second, what is it with the Recaptcha's to write a comment, NY Times? I now need to prove I am human to some machine? Not any more, no!
2
I once recall a Catholic priest refusing communion to teenage girls wearing their zodiac sign on a necklace, saying it was a "pagan superstition" (he was not an Australian-born priest BTW).
Obviously he has never visited Chartres Cathedral which has a 40 foot high stained glass window depicting all 12 signs of the zodiac!
6
So your advice (or the astrologer's) is to not sign contracts or buy electronics. I would also add that you should not believe the photographs printed in your most trusted newspaper, in articles written by the trustworthy science writer. I guarantee that if you look at Mercury through a powerful telescope or if you were miraculously transported to a satellite in Mercury's orbit, you would not see such vivid blues, greens, purples and yellows. You would just see gray, maybe a little brownish.
2
Perhaps the New York Times should start quoting faith healers for medical articles and psychics for articles on mental health.
Actually, please don't.
5
As a person who values rational thinking and logic, who is also a poet, and takes pleasure in the sounds and connotations of words as well as their dictionary definitions, I have no problem embracing both worlds.
While my astrological sign doesn’t influence the choices I make about daily life, there’s something beautiful about it, just as there is about being able to pick out the constellations in the night sky and learn the mythology behind their naming ( another man-made imposition of imagination on the natural world).
I can't see why there shouldn’t be room in the world for both sciencep and story.
11
Why is the NYTimes publishing this woo? Are they trying to get me to cancel my subscription?
13
"Why is the NYTimes publishing this woo?"
The article is in the *style* section, not the science section.
"Are they trying to get me to cancel my subscription?"
Here is a link to the woo-free science section:
https://www.nytimes.com/section/science
5
Come on people, Kepler's laws have been in place for literally 400 years now. Quit acting all surprised and magical about things you don't bother to study.
8
It is disheartening to see NY Times endorsing and publishing articles promoting astrology. Think about it --- Did over 6 millions people who died due to holocaust and second world war do you think they all had same or similar astrological configurations to suffer that fate. What about the current tragedies of Syria and Iraq? How does astrology explain that? Or dinosaurs? Or slavery or poverty? In India astrology is widely practiced and yet India is not a prosperous country. It is the enlightenment and science which has propelled humanity to progress not astrology. People can choose to believe in what they want to but if they think rationally they will realize it is not the truth. Principles of astrology are inherently unjust. I have read some books by ancient Indian vedic astrologers and it seems like your natal birth chart can predict your destiny and there's no fighting it. The dye is cast. Which is totally wrong. Think about it millions of babies are born on a certain day and time, and they all have different destinies.
8
@anonymous
"Did over 6 millions people who died due to holocaust and second world war do you think they all had same or similar astrological configurations to suffer that fate. "
No. But there is some evidence that the highest levels of the Nazi leadership did.
1
@anonymous, when you get into broader social and historical events then you are going into Mundane Astrology, which concerns the effects of long-term configurations. Some of those last decades, or start events that last centuries. But it's important to apply those to historical background. Europe had a history of ethnic cleansing well before Hitler. But with Pluto, the planet of dictators discovery, in 1929 (?) we had Hitler, Mussolini, et al. The Uranus/Pluto conjunction, which denotes challenges to the status quo during the mid-late 1960s, we had the Civil Rights Movement reaching a culminating point, for example. For Dinosaurs, precise dates are needed, not spans of hundreds of millions of years to have a practical viewpoint. But each of those areas you mentioned require more space than simple paragraphs, but complete studies and there is astrological literature and writers to sample if one seriously wants to understand the basis and uses of astrology.
2
Astrology is ancient. I tend to think that there are reasons certain things last a long time. My mother practiced astrology for many years, and I am open to its ideas. If only as one (of the many) ways to understand the world we find ourselves in. And the idea that each planetary and stellar body is a unique mass of various elements which has effects beyond their physical boundaries seems possible to me (radio waves anyone?). Maybe its hokum, but who really knows? That said, my mom always told me to beware communication problems when Mercury went retrograde. And I have been experiencing a few strange issues these last few days. So there you go.
8
Religion is ancient too, and just as unsubstantiated. Science is a much newer thing, a more sophisticated human endeavour. But people will always want to believe in mystical phenomena because it relieves them of responsibility for their actions and makes for easy convenient explanations.
3
The number of people who have read Joseph and His Brothers by Thomas Mann is quite small I think, but I was struck by the many references to astrology pertaining to Joseph and Abraham in this work. The role of the night sky in earlier days was very strong.
9
"The role of the night sky in earlier days was very strong."
In the desert, the night sky is especially noticeable. Mann has a beautiful passage describing the "glorious" skies in the section titled "Ishtar".
7
There was a story I read years ago about a newspaper astrologist who upon being fired found a note on his desk which read
"As you know, the paper is terminating the astrology column".
7
Astrology does cause harm when it influences decisions, since such influence decreases the use of whatever information is available and gives a false sense of certainty. There is an opportunity cost to avoiding taking actions based on a horoscope. And of course, there are gullible people fleeced by
charlatans who use astrology as one of their tools of deception.
So I think the view that astrology is benign is simplistic and misguided.
4
@seattle expat
And as I a sure someone has posted, Reagan has a court astrologer. Yea.
Don't worry about the moon, it's just going through a phase.
10
Maybe one of you astrology buffs can explain why it's a bad idea to buy electronics when Mercury is retrograde? The devices are already assembled, aren't they? They were built maybe months ago when Mercury wasn't retrograde, no? Is it the act of money changing hands that affects the machines somehow? Are washing machines and lawn mowers similarly affected? Paint sprayers? Instant Pots?
Since buying during retrograde is apparently the important factor, what is it that "protects" devices we already own? Below, someone notes that the Ethiopian airline crash occurred during Mercury retrograde. Surely this "proves" that the purchasing date is irrelevant--or, ooohh!...did Ethiopian Air make an installment payment during retrograde? Inquiring minds want to know. C'mon, 'splain it to us skeptics. You can do this!
4
"... why it's a bad idea to buy electronics when Mercury is retrograde?"
The article quotes an expert who says to "keep your receipts". That could mean that the *decision* might be bad, not the product.
Have you ever made an impulse purchase that you later regretted?
5
@GSB "could mean". Precisely. The Oracle of Delphi never made a statement that couldn't be interpreted in more than one way. She knew cryptic and indecipherable was best.
Meantime, this how the article starts out: "Do not buy electronics, or anything with moving parts or gears. Do not be surprised if the mail is screwed up, or something goes awry when you’re in transit. And be mindful: You’re liable to forget something, like your glasses or phone."
Sounds like more than just regretting a decision, no?
1
@Bill, Planets, signs, all have areas of association (avoiding "ruling"). It is necessary to combine the many manifestations of a planet's or sign's areas. So: Mercury's areas are: counting, communication, registering, receipts, brothers, sisters, short journeys, the press, writing, tools, concrete perceptions, synthesis, for example. Then there are characteristics: speedy, curiosity, immaturity or youthfulness, being fickle, ambidexterity, speculative, flexibility, and more. An experienced astrologer will be able to see what that might mean for an individual, or a broader social situation.
4
It might be better to analyze and write about the impact of Mercury in retrograde during the 11 months when it's not in retrograde. The thinking would be more clear then.
2
@DM, Please look for those studies. They have been written by astrologers. I find that most of the criticisms of astrology are not based on what astrology is, and there is so much literature on it. The general public only sees commercial magazine articles, or pieces of it like this article!
4
You might’s well tell me that nine out of ten purveyors of Dr. Kickapoo’s Joy Juice heartily recommend Dr. Kickapoo’s Joy Juice.
People believe in divinities. They even believe in Trump. So why not astrology? Nancy Regan did.
4
Do you know how to deal with Mercury in retro-grade?
Stop believing in astrology.
5
In the 50 years I’ve been studying and following astrology, I’ve noticed that those people who shout the loudest that astrology is fake or unbelievable or has no merit have never studied it beyond reading the daily horoscope columns in the paper. Some of these comments sound like Trump when he spews his ignorant beliefs. How many of you nonbelievers of astrology believe in a religion? A virgin birth? A resurrection from the dead? A parting of the Red Sea? Come on all you scientists who speak here, let me hear your scientific explanations of religious belief.
15
@Emma I'm an atheist and I think astrology is bunk too.
5
@Emma, an important point! I have never in my nearly 50 years of practice and study of astrology heard of someone who thinks that astrology is a pseudo science based their opinion on what astrology is, and how it should be used. And, like going to a good or bad dentist, you can go to a good or bad astrologer!
A bad dentist doesn't mean that dentistry is false...
Astrology is no more or less ridiculous than other religions and superstitions.
1
Is this why I keep losing things?
1
What’s dangerous about this claptrap—beyond the money it sucks from the suckers, and the occasional appearance of First Ladies dumb enough to believe in it—is the spread of magical thinking.
Specifically, the type of magical thinking that likes to dress the buncombe up in pseudoscience, like a little kid dressing up in mommy’s too-big red pumps.
Look at the demands for scientific studies disproving astrology, when as mentioned, the burden of such proof is on the True Believers.
Look at the comments that start out with “I am a scientist,” and then throw a bucket of adjective-heavy pseudoscience at the wall, before concluding with some version of the same old piffle.
Look at the bizarre claims about magnetospheres and sunspots and quantum mechanics and the reality of constellations as anything more than human beings imposing patterns on the sky that aren’t actually there.
And don’t forget the stabs at shifting the TYPE of astrology, to Indian or “tropical,” or something, and stick critics with the brilliant “I’m talking about the kind THAT WORKS!!”
Astrology isn’t a science, despite the “ology,” at the end. Its only reality is as: a) a way of understanding how the actual sciences developed, b) a somewhat-interesting set of cultural practices, c) a place to study human gullibility.
6
@Robert
So, you've studied it?
1
Never, ever, nor under any circumstances, underestimate the immense and appalling stupidity of many in the human species.
4
[Astrologists] really aren't trying to hurt anyone?
About five years ago a number of my high school students were despondent and terrified that the world was going to end--there was purported to be an invisible dark Earth on the other side of the Sun, or the Mayan calendar was about to expire. I forget which.
But some of my students' families were ridding themselves of possessions, keeping kids out of school so they could be together, and even whispering about suicide pacts. A simple mathematical equation could prove instantly it was all bunk.
Astrology, by nature, is anti-science; the gravitational pull of the people and equipment in the delivery room when we're born is stronger than that of the planets. And putting stock in anti-science gives rise to cults, destroys vaccine immunity, and causes us to go backward.
6
As someone who has studied astrology and has observed the effects of retrograded Mercury for a number of years I can say that it does seem to have some truth to it. It also indicates unfinished business as in something you thought was complete in the past comes back again to be redone. Does this mean that I throw the covers over my head and not go out of the house? Absolutely not. However, I personally wouldn't make a major purchase like buying a house, car, or electronics while this Mercury is retrograded.
Thank you so much for pointing out that it is an optical illusion and that even astrologers say that it is not a very big deal.
One more thing - all of the planets except for the sun and moon go retrograde. However, that is a subject for a different column.
7
@Angela - so since you buy all your big-ticket items in "safe" times, none of them has ever been a problem?
Should be easy enough to prove. Do retailers see a spate of returns during/right after Mercury in retrograde? Or are big-ticket items returned at a rate similar to how frequently they're bought throughout the year?
@b fagan
Assuming you are asking a legitimate question and are not making a joke:
I wouldn't know if retailers have a spat of returns as I don't work in retail. It would be an interesting study to see if this is the case.
As for cars or homes I would assume it would be difficult to "return" them as there are contracts involved. Many times the problems don't spring up right away but when they do there seem to be a lot of them. The best solution in this case is to sell them. I once bought a car under retrograded Mercury and it was a real lemon. You can buy the same items when Mercury is direct and still have problems especially as they age. Let's just say that Mercury retrograde represents a breakdown of communication, problems with electronics and machinery and unfinished business to name a few of the most obvious traits.
At work many times I would find that cases I had worked on while it was retrograded Mercury tended to the be the ones that came back around during the next retrograded Mercury period Especially if they were difficult and complicated.
At any rate - as they say don't be too Sirius.
3
@Angela by the way I do believe in science and am always interested when we learn something new about the cosmos. I am a supporter of the space probes that have been launched and love it when they send back information about our universe.
2
Even if the stars did affect life on Earth, which I know they don't, why would the effect be different for people based on their birthdays? That is what makes the least amount of sense to me!
"Even if the stars did affect life on Earth, which I know they don't, ..."
Actually, stars do "affect life on Earth", with the Sun being the most obvious example of a star. Further, cosmic rays and meteorites also have some effect. Indeed, meteorites have caused mass extinctions of life.
Of course, none of that, as you suggest, is considered relevant to astrologers.
3
@Dianne: I am not an astrologer, though I would play one on TV if asked. But I've pondered this question. I'd liken the differing effects to the differing alignments of planets and stars depending on the date. Take the Sun for instance. You feel the difference greatly between day or night, summer or winter. It depends on our alignment with the Sun (itself an astrological body). The effects of other planets and stars would also be changed depending on alignment. Just more subtly than we can all feel with our closest star.
2
@Syd, Yeah! That's precisely it. We live in an environment and are not beyond or above it! And of the greatest influences, the Sun and Moon manifest the grossest or most obvious of all the bodies. Our Sun/Moon cycles are unique because they are approximately the same size, with their relationship to our planet like a mother and father, which they represent, along with other astrological factors. If we could lose our ego, we'd see that we are no more than the tape worms that mate during Full Moons. Actually, astrological predictions are made for expectant mothers unknowingly by doctors when they determine the date a baby is due, by combining their fertility cycle with the Moon's, then counting so many lunar cycles. That is astrology!!!
And yes, the other bodies and cycles are subtler, and together they are strokes in a complete drawing.
At first I didn't like your statement about how you'd play an astrologer, but I have no doubt now that you have enough of a feel of it to play one.
1
I lived half my life in India where everyone seems to follow astrology and read the daily horoscope. It's a way of life there - to begin every new day by reading something in order to "reign in the randomness of uncaring universe."
No different form others who start their day by praying or others who figure out stock market prices and variations with geopolitical events.
Reading some mumbo jumbo to counter the mumbo jumbo of life gives the brain a sense ( even though false) of control. Our brains cannot deal with randomness and uncertainty. A false sense of certainty is considered a better option.
3
Reading this helped me understand why it will always be an uphill battle to get people to accept scientific evidence of anthropogenic climate change or the safety and utility of vaccines. For better or worse, consistent rationality is not a hallmark of our species.
5
I think it's perfectly appropriate to place astrology in the category of religion. Although based upon observation of the cosmos, which resembles scientific inquiry, it is essentially faith-based.
4
Astrology is a pseudo-science. It has never passed a controlled, double-blind experiment. But that is not the point.
Ask yourself why, if they can truly predict trends, most astrologers are not rich, but rather are toiling among the masses (yes, there are rich celebrity astrologers with marvelous PR, but they are the exception).
Astrology is a cop-out - it gives people an excuse for failure, for they cannot control the stars and planets.
But does astrology work? Maybe - it is cheaper than psychotherapy, and can make people feel good about themselves.
2
I find that beer works for that.
2
Astrology I can take or leave; however, I love astronomy. When I was 13 years old, I was a member of the Shreveport Astronomical Society, and stayed one for 3 years. This was in the mid-latter 1960's, so there was no light pollution. My parents lived in a suburban home, and I could use my little 3" refraction telescope in our driveway, to the fullest.
The best part was on Saturday nights, when we had open viewing to the public for free at the local society's telescope; a 20" reflection model, if memory serves correct (it may have been 16" or 18").
A few other member and I would set up our telescopes for viewing on various objects; usually Saturn, Jupiter and their moons. If the Moon was small or dark, we had full sky viewing, as the main telescope was out of the city limits in the middle of miles of cotton or soybean fields: horizon to horizon.
I can still remember most of the constellations and stars. If I had taken another path in my life, it would have been in this field.
I chose a different one, which turned out to be very exciting, anyway.
6
Would it kill ya to have a visual?
I know you're a wordsmith, but in this case a diagram or even an animated clip would help people understand this so much better than the lame and misleading car analogy. While the photographs you do display contribute nothing at all.
1
After reading some of the comments here that do not ridicule astrology properly, I am getting a sandwich board out and painting on it: WE'RE DOOMED
3
Why should you care if Astrology is not real?
Because you should strive not to be gullible. You should always avoid being fooled. You should require good evidence before being convinced that something is true or real.
Did you ever stop to ask how Astrology works? How it began as a theory? Or did you just buy into it because one of the intentionally vague predictions it made applied to you? Now might be a good time to investigate these questions.
Chances are, if you believe in Astrology, you're also believing in some other farce and you're unaware of it. Be more critical or you risk being a fool.
It's good to be open-minded, but not so open-minded that your brains fall out.
6
Well, if astrology had any basis is science, astrologers would have discovered black holes, pulsars, the ort cloud, the moons of jupiter and saturn...etc.
But astrologers have done nothing of the sort...when science discovers a new object in space, astrologers "adjust." I guess everything before the scientific discovery was wrong.
STEM is in retrograde....
5
I'm aa child of the '60s. Astrology was huge back then. " This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius ..." We survived it. But the point is that this is not something new. Young people have always been attracted to astrology. Even the scientifically literate. And most of them eventually outgrow it. Only for a new generation to come along and take the plunge. Same old, same old.
1
I lived half my life in India where everyone reads and follows astrology and daily horoscope. It's a way of life there - to begin the reading something to try to ring in the randomness of uncaring universe. No different form others who start praying in the morning or some others who follow stock market variations.
Reading some mumbo jumbo to counter the mumbo jumbo gives the brain a sense ( even though false) of control.
6
That's all fine and good but the fault still lies in ourselves.
Happy Ides!
2
@J, astrology does not deny choice. It's like hearing a weather report: if it rains, do you use an umbrella, take a cab, or go out at all.
Science can and does vindicate astrology.
In France at the Lascaux caves, there are paintings of game and predator animals on the walls. Only for a few hours on the first day of Spring a beam of light pierces the cave and touches the tip of the nose of an ancient massive ancestor of domestic cows the aurochs. In its nose are seven stars painted - exactly depicting the Seven Sisters of the Pleiades. The Pleiades occur in the sign of Taurus the bull. These cave drawing are about 28,000 years old.
Science? No. Pre or proto - science. {I use the term reluctantly, because they were every bit as smart as we are, but 30 thousand years later our refined tools are better} There are bones found in near by caves with carved notches in them that depict the 12 new moons a year.
6
@emcoolj
You describe the orbital mechanics of astronomy...and it has nothing to do with astrology which has nothing to do science.
7
@emcoolj None of the items in your post are related to astrology. They are all evidence of early efforts at understanding astronomy.
1
@emcoolj - as glennmr points out, people documenting what they can observe has zilch to do with "astrology". Where in Lascaux is there any indication that stars on an auroch's nose means Ogg will drop a stone axe on his foot?
2
Maybe the Placebo effect is the most accurate answer to everything that ails us...Placebo works in just about all forms of medicine (YES, including use of pharmaceuticals, and even surgery - check out some studies). Perhaps the secret to the universe is within us all...whatever you believe in will help heal...
2
Recognizing that there's no actual cause-and-effect to the pseudoscience of astrology isn't "hating," it's simply an acknowledgement of reality.
9
I think of it as “giggling,” myself.
I'm curious. What happened to astrology when Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto were discovered starting in the 1700s? Did the astrologers say the "new" planets had astrological significance? Did mean all horoscopes before 1700 become invalid (which of course, they really were) ? Did the astrologers pretend the planets didn't exist and hope their clients didn't read science news? What a mess.
6
The spiritual magic of the Renaissance was catalyzed by astrologer Marsilio Ficino’s renewal of Platonic and Hermetic philosophies. Astrology created a humanist Awakening in the past.
Why not now?
4
If you watch the planets from the Northern Hemisphere, most of the time they appear to be going right to left.....
Are you facing North, or South? The "direction" in which they move would be different, depending on which way one faces as the look "up."
1
“It’s a waste of your energy to be hating on astrology, because we really aren’t out here trying to harm people.”
Except you're profiting off mass deception. You're proliferating boxes based on fake news created by a box obsessed racist past, and convincing people to define themselves and others based on your profitable lies. And when you tell someone long enough that they're X, eventually they'll believe it. Whether X is gender, sexuality, place in the world, or that they are destined to be intense because they were born in March - they will eventually internalize it, give into the hoodwink, and allow themselves to be manipulated, all to buy you more ad revenue. It's manipulation for profit, and whatever the intention, it's wrong 💖
4
"Astrology has soared in popularity in recent years, particularly among young, female and queer online communities."
That's scary, considering that "female and queer" communities are gaining in political power.
1
Scary is male and guns
Not female and queer
5
Sad commentary on science education in this country.
5
Didn’t Facebook and Instagram both go down this week, affecting millions of users? Just sayin...
4
I don’t “believe” in astrology, but I’ve been writing and working in communications for over 40 years, and when things start to get stupid I look at the calendar. Retrograde again. I redouble my efforts to be clear, accept that most people will read only parts and misconstrue the rest, and answers will be delayed. I just work harder til it’s over. And the flow of communication does change then. I still don’t make financial or important decisions during that time unless forced to. Mercury retrograde obscures, rather than hides.
3
@Laura Borders. Amen.
“The stars incline, they do not compel.”
1
The late Carl Sagan in the mid-'90s wrote "A Demon-Haunted World", a book which beautifully describes the origins and purposes of irrational beliefs and cults. Recommended reading.
7
@Ron Clark
We sorely miss Carl Sagan and his sane voice.
10
A con and a mark walk into a bar separately and leave together Evidence that reinforces their belief is always welcomed by most
1
I’ll say this for astrology: except of course for the spreading of unreason and the waste of money, it’s pretty much as harmless a crackpottery as there is.
2
@Robert Not in India where it has been ruled a science in the courts. It does real damage. Did you see The Orville episode on astrology? There is a similar problem with Indian Astrology, that's probably where they got the story idea from.
The term "illiterate" needs to be broadened. It's clearly not enough to be able to decode the alphabet. The concept needs very much to be broadened so that we can have a functioning society. Otherwise, ignorance and supersition will be our epidemic along with measles.
3
No, they're not harmless. Astrologers are harming people with misinformation. Many of those gullible folks could end up taking terrible decisions ,sometimes life-altering ones,based on these charlatans' counsel.
4
What's the Dark Matter with you?
2
Nancy Reagan had an astrologist in the White House!
2
My father used to say that astrology was a lot of Taurus.
5
A Windows 10 upgrade was downloaded on my laptop and failed. After that some of my other software programs would not work. I called Microsoft and never got a call back. I had to reset my computer's date and get assistance from one company to reload one software program. Coincidence? Or is there some truth to Mercury being in retrograde and can wreak havoc?
2
@susan No, being in "retrograde" (lol) had nothing to do with your problems.
Seriously? tedch support doesn't call back, like that's never happened before, and this is evidence for astrology???
2
Astrology's foundaiton is hogwash - we know. BUT: It's an excellent and often useful pretext that allows strangers to seek out people who are naturally empathetic, good listers, attentive to fine nuances in others' behaviour / comportment - and who offer soothing counsel based on there fine sense of observation (a.k.a "a good friend"). It's a pretext to allow those good listeners to make a few dollars doing what they do well. In that sense, there's nothing wrong with it. Sadly, some of these astrologers will exploit the gullible and ratchet up the stakes to ensure they keep coming for more, and paying more. There should be a "College of Astrologers" out there to uphold standards....
4
Evolution, global warming, and astrology. There is something dreadfully wrong with the way science and scientific method is taught to the general population in this country. Perhaps Karl Popper should be required reading in high school.
Our population does not know how to assemble facts and form a reasonable opinion. This is really the worst problem facing our country.
2
@Charles Vekert- how true. Evolution and global warming have both been observed and experimentally validated yet some people still toss off references to Popper in those contexts, as if that affects how nature works.
5
Hmm. If the same survey had asked if each of the major religions of the world are “scientific”, I wonder if the responses would have been higher or lower. Since when are most people’s belief systems based on science - for good or for ill?
2
the moons gravity effects water on earth. science discovers thing all the time. each human cell has 10 raised to the 18th power of chemical reactions per second. brain science is still a mystery.
astrology perhaps is a theory. remember theories are allowed in science.....
3
The scientific meaning of "theory" is not what you imagine it to be.
8
Astrology needs to be accurately tested before anyone jumps to conclusions. The correct questions need to be asked and tested, as in any other science.
I don't think that you can predict events with astrology...you don't need to really especially when you have a defective economic systems in place, you know that it sets us up to fail. This is besides the point.
Food for thought. Recently, I visited the Caltech LIGO Lab and discovered that the universe is a noisy place. It's possible to detect a little more than just two black holes merging.
I asked students in a history of sciences class this question a couple of weeks ago:
What are the differences between “Mercury in retrograde” and “the butterfly effect”?
3
Cute article but in it you sayin it that there is no proof that the movement of any plant affects life on earth. That is so wrong! Every police department and hospital and church and performance venue and meteorologist and Shakespeare knows that the FULL MOON affects absolutely everything, including the tides. It is such arrogance to think that we are somehow not connected to the rest of the universe and affected by it. What about sun spots?.
4
@george
What about suspension bridges? They defy gravity.
2
@george - that we are part of the universe and so are affected by it (and affect it) isn't the question. The issue is to have deliberate confusion between two things:
1 - the real effects of forces like gravity (tides, etc)
2 - supposed effects on individual people's lives due to where other planets happen to be on some given day
4
Okay, I’ll bite...what about sunspots?
1
Not everyone who attends church believes all that is said by a pastor or priest, or all that is written by the ancient prophets. Not everyone who follows their horoscope believes at an especially deep level - or at all. We do lots of things to be around people we like, for community, for something to share.
When I was younger I explored some of the ancient teachings - Old Testament, astrology, numerology... So what? I can still follow a rational argument and make one.
Waaaaay too much ink spilled over something that isn't going to destroy life as we know it. So not worth all the divisiveness.
1
Thanks Karen,
The beef against Astrology stems, in my view, from what I would call Starlight Savings Time. If you were to set your celestial clock back 2,000 years, you would have a better claim. Ask yourselves why the Tropic of Cancer isn't called the Tropic of Gemini. Why isn't the Tropic of Capricorn called the Tropic of Sagittarius? It isn't just because those don't roll off the tongue; it's because of what astronomers call the Precession of the Equinoxes (which simply means Equal Night -- [equal to daylight]). The clue comes from the phrase the Age of Aquarius. The Age of Pisces, when the sun appeared in Pisces on the equinox for roughly 2,000 years (which is special this year because of a full moon on that day -- Bunnies' delight) has come to an end. Your claims would be more credible if they were in fact in tune with what any 1st grader could observe by looking up at the sky. The fault, Dear Astrologer, is not in our stars, but in ourselves . . . And it is surely arguable that the pull of the midwife is more important at the time of birth than the pull of Mars or the moon. This doesn't mean we still don't love you though.
@Henry Hewitt
You are talking Western, dear.
You need to look into the ancient, Sidereal Astrology.
Sidereal is Greek for “with the stars”.
Easy mistake to make.
I still love you though
1
@Henry Hewitt, while you might think your idea has logic to it, that is not what astrology is based on. Yes, the constellations have "changed," relative to the seasons, they have not really changed. While there are disagreements between siderealists (constellation-based) and tropicalists (season-based) systems and philosophies, the movements and cycles of the planets and how we decide to use their potential offerings are the basis for it.
I've been a practicing astrologer almost 50 years, and it seems that people who say astrology is bunk, usually argue points that are irrelevant to what astrology is, how it is used. And it shows that they are ignorant of it. Please at least study it enough - and speak with astrologers to understand what it is.
I have a degree in the History and Science of Astrology from the University of Massachusetts, Amherst. I earned my B.A. through the BDIC program at UMass. BDIC stands for Bachelor Degree with Individual Concentration. I have taken college courses in Astronomy, Physics, and geology.
Unfortunately, most astronomers do not comprehend that daily horoscope astrology is strictly for entertainment. Furthermore, the ignorance of most astronomers about astrology is simply unconscionable. They generally lash out blindly with their unwieldy attack that the constellations have shifted because the Earth or the equinoxes have precessed. Most astronomers refuse to accept that most astrologers use a tropical system of astrology that is based upon the SIGNS of the ZODIAC and not the constellations. The equinoxes and solstices define and determine the tropical system of astrology- not the constellations. However, as a system, tropical astrology is a limited tool: it is not strictly a science such as are physics, geology, biology, and astronomy.
It is my opinion that empowering Retrograde Mercury is a silly superstition that falls into the same category as empowering solar and lunar eclipses and super moons. All of these occurrences are normal astronomical phenomena that are best explained by physics and astronomy and best enjoyed with a good telescope. These naturally occurring astronomical phenomena are nothing about which to get astrologically exercised!
3
What you have, actually, is an undergrad degree in humanities, from a program that allowed you to design your own major. It isn’t a science degree of any kind. And somebody should’ve watched over what you studied a heckuva lot better.
This is why you don’t know something as simple as the fact that “the signs of the zodiac,” are human inventions, patterns we impose on the night sky. They have no astronomical or scientific significance whatsoever, except as ways of discussing a) steps along the road to actual science, and b) human gullibility.
Fun fact: the stars “in,” a constellation such as Gemini aren’t anywhere near each other, generally speaking.
3
When I was a teenager, I read a prediction that, being a Scorpio, I should expect bladder and kidney problems. I am past 84 and still waiting.
10
Let’s just call astrology a religion, and leave it at that. We try not to judge other people’s faiths in things intangible, and the American experiment is based on leaving religion outside, separate, tolerated. Once we start talking about evidence, science, technology versus invisible beings, unicorns, planets with Greek personalities, we’re dangerously close to wanting to do something about it.
Personally, I’m currently believing that our government is in prolonged retrograde motion...
7
I am a scientist, and retired recently after spending over 20 years doing discovery research in a major pharmaceutical company in a biology-chemistry area. In discovery phase of research in pharma, following evidence and generating experimentally verifiable hypothesis which sometimes bring disparate information closer together on careful experimentation based on sound hypotheses.
To me, astrology has substantial parallels. It brings together disparate experiences closer together revealing unexpected connectivity. Without a hypothesis,and an open mind to explore such connectivities will remain undiscovered.
Despite my scientist's skepticism towards the field of astrology, I bought "Light on Life - An Introduction to the Astrology of India" by Hart Defouw and Robert Svoboda.
Over the last seven years I have been looking closely at my chart and those of others like my parents, siblings (whose chart information I had easy access to) and others who I know fairly well. I have been impressed with the predictions, and how the predictions would be much better than random.
In my opinion, the Vedic birth chart of an individual seems to have strong say as to the phenotypes of the physical/mental phenotypes (a phenotypic and possibly genetic map) which can be robust when taken together with those genetically close to that individual (parents, siblings, children, grandchildren). I find it fascinating a grandchild will carry the same chart features and the phenotype of her grandmother.
6
There sure seem to be a lot of these posts that start with “I am a scientist,” and then move through a heap of adjective-heavy, pseudoscientific drivel before reaching ridiculous conclusions.
1
Astrology is just like the weather forecast. You can wear the right clothes and adjust your schedule but it doesn't have to rule your life. You can ignore the weather forecast and you can ignore astrology at the risk of being a bit less prepared for what may be ahead.
2
It's much easier to see Mercury at its greatest elongation at latitudes such as Sydney (33 degrees S), or places closer to the Equator, because of the much shorter twilight than places more distance from the Equator.
That's why the ancient Greek and Egyptian astronomers could see and describe it, while Copernicus, living in Northern Europe, never saw Mercury in his lifetime.
6
You quote Krista Burton's remark, "The meteoric rise of New Age practices may be trendy, but it’s one way millennials are acknowledging that the current system isn’t working."
That's awfully fuzzy. I haven't checked whether Burton's Op-Ed makes clear which "current system" those alleged millennials have in mind or in what way it isn't working (not yielding reliable information? not making the world a better place? not moving boomers out of the picture, finally?). However, I wonder that they think it's a good idea to respond by turning to something that can't possibly work.
After looking through these comments, I also hope it doesn't get around that The New York Times, a frequent forum for discussions of climate science, is getting input from so many people who are open to astrology.
9
I don’t think I get your point: is it that deniers of the way we’re warming the planet are every bit as silly as people who believe in astrology?
@Robert
Thanks for your reply.
That's not quite my meaning, which I know I failed to make clear. I meant that deniers might see a conjunction of climate science and astrology in the Times reader community as tending to discredit climate science. I wasn't entirely serious about it, though.
As a working astrophysicist, I understand the appeal of astrology. It offers people a connection between the events of their lives and the movements of the cosmos. As such, it helps explain the “slings and arrows of outrageous fortune” that all of us encounter in our lives.
I can’t fault believers in astrology who want to find a connection between their lives and the cosmos. I get to experience and reinforce this connection every working day, whether I’m contemplating the motion of the moons of Jupiter, the stability of the Sun, the history of the Milky Way, or the reason why lead is more common than gold.
So my motives are not so different from those who profess astrology. I share and respect their desire for harmony with the universe. But I consider every bit of my knowledge provisional, and subject to revision if contradicted by observation or experiment. That’s why I’m a scientist and not an astrologer.
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@joshbarnes
So you have studied Astrology, and done your own experiments?
How does one "do experiments" (in a scientific sense) in astrology?
3
Well, there’s the Anazing Randi, who’s been known to sucker a whole roomful of people by giving them the same horoscope, written in such general terms that everybody was amazed at the accuracy.
I once thought astrology was bunkum. Then, my astrologer wife got me interested in it. After reading a few hundred books on the topic and going to classes taught by pros, I changed my mind. When I understood what it all meant, I looked at my own chart and that of my immediate family and realized how amazingly accurate it is. Consider that astrology has been around for about 5000 years and was used, with variations, in every culture on the planet. Essentially it formalized a system of observable and repeatable (hence predictable) phenomena. In fact it was the first science.
If one approaches the topic with an open mind, you'll be blown away by how profound astrology is. It will change your understanding of how nature and the world works. When the Jussy Smollett story unfolded I told my wife that the planet Neptune had to have a profound, probably negative, influence in his chart. Then I confirmed it in the Ephemeris. Neptune being the planet connected to movie making/drama and deception. At his birth, Neptune opposed his Gemini Sun and any competent astrologer could explain the import of this config. Just as one example. Open mind people!
9
I find it useful never to keep my mind so open that my brain falls out.
8
@Economy Biscuits
Most people don't have what it takes to focus long enough to learn anything subtle; they skate along the surface for a few minutes and get bored. These average people bounced off math and the sciences and art - their lives are barely worth living.
Because it's all too hard for them, they loudly call it bunk and have another beer.
For people who have trouble understanding as above so below, consider that the only thing between us and the other electrically charged planets in our Solar System is the Air that we breathe.
The Mercury retrogrades happen three times each year and last for about 21 days. They represent a challenge in receiving reliable information especially when that information is in the form of our own reasoning. What we hear from others is more questionable in these times up to the point that we may even be able to see through the deceptions that might be thrown our way.
6
@Joe Gilkey - well, there's our magnetosphere, too. It's not made of air, it's made of magnetic force lines generated by the dynamo in the interior of the planet.
And only some of the planets have magnetosphere's, no matter what deceptions are thrown.
https://mobile.arc.nasa.gov/public/iexplore/missions/pages/yss/november2011.html
I'm an agnostic because I feel that it's sort of useless to try to prove that a god does not exist as it is to prove that one does.
Similarly, just because there is no proof that the planets affect our behavior is not proof that it does not.
Since science, however, has shown that movement of a particle here on earth can affect an identical movement of a particle elsewhere in the universe, I am not inclined to dismiss out of hand that it may be possible for what I will call extremely intuitive people to see patterns and infer from them that most of us cannot.
18
Except that astrologers claim no psychic powers—they claim to be doing science—and have been debunked again, again, and over again.
8
Yup.
As a scientist I think it is 100% real, just off by about 9 months. Consider the arrangement and gravitational superposition of the universe and the very weak yet non-zero unique 3D gravitational force coupling with the dance and tiny, almost infintesimal energies involved in the joining of the chromosomes at that exact few miliiseconds of time when the first cell is created. Of course experimentally unmeasurable and forever buried in the noise but just because we will never have the apparatus sensitive enough to measure and quantify it doesn't mean that some incredible cosmic time stamp and coupling to the Universe was not placed on a being at those moments....
9
@LG - would you please, as a scientist, explain how tiny, infinitesimal changes in gravity could make a difference when sperm and egg combine? Then please explain the difference when you consider that the passing of a tractor-trailer nearby has a greater gravitational effect than any star besides our sun.
We're coupled to the universe because we're in it. We're part of it. Undetectable effects sometimes aren't detectable because they aren't there.
Thinking that the total, yet basically undetectable, differences in gravity between each blessed event makes a difference is simply transferring the concept of homeopathic effects of infinitely diluted substances to instead affect conception via no-longer-detectable remote gravity fields.
What about the Supermoon?
I have watched the past two Supermoons w/o any toxic or spiritual effects.
I even watched the lunar eclipse and survived.
Another Supermoon is coming soon.
Don't worry - it's just perigee.
Supermoons and retrograde inner planets are like wind chill - a prediction w/o a result.
1
If the moon can move the seas, what effect does it have on us? are we not mostly water too? And if the moon and its trifling mass would have such an effect, then what of the planets and stars?
10
We know what the mechanism is that governs the tides. What's the mechanism that enables astrology to "work?"
4
Even if it's a process you automate, make sure your electronics are backed up now, people, then back them up again when Mercury goes direct.
1
@Julie - backup is a regular process. People who fail to make backups regularly will not "prove" the effect of Mercury's orbit on gadgets if a failure happens to occur during a specific time.
But I'm curious. Were scribes advised to copy documents an extra time during these cycles? Must have been time-consuming, leading to haste and transcription errors.
1
I’ve been having a lot of miscommunications and haven’t been getting my writing done! It is definitely affecting me! Maybe because I believe in it!
30
@Imohf Good point! But it may give you hope that when the retro period is over, you will get your writing done. So you don't
panic and in that way astrology is a help!
Shortly after getting married for the first time 30 plus years ago, a dear old friend of my wife started to drop off each month to the doorman, I lived in Manhattan at the time, a Xeroxed copy of the monthly horoscope. It was so well written and quite enlightening as it were, that I simply started to read it on a regular basis. AND never stopped. Today i just check it online for free. It is written by Katherine Merlin and published by "Town and Country". I highly recommend it. It is both entertaining and often quite accurate as it were. It "possibly" provides another way to look at what is going on in one's life and certainly causes no harm. As to Mercury, when it is out of phase, being a Gemini whose ruling planet happens to be Mercury, it helps for whatever it's worth to be aware when it comes and goes. No matter what though, Life remains uncertain and an interesting process.
70
@erwan I too am Gemini ruled by Mercury. I stay aware, but don’t obsess. If I can avoid a major purchase, trip, or decision, I do. And later find out that was a wise move. I trust my stars.
5
Thank you so much for this! I’ve really enjoyed reading Katherine’s horoscope. I hadn’t heard of her before.
@NinaMargo
Right on!
May The Force be with you.
Astrology is a part of daily life in many parts of the world - it can tell us what colour to wear each day, when best to buy electronics or sign a contract and who we will get-on with easily and who we might not. I’m a Water Rat and an Aries... I loosely pay attention to both and fully intend to visit a temple during the Spring Festival next year to ask for the least troublesome year of the rat possible. Like Mercury in retrograde - better to be safe than sorry!
21
@Connie Your post is an excellent example of why astrology -- and religion -- is popular among so many people. We all seek affirmation that we're doing the right thing, as well as relief from the the thousands of decision modern society confronts us with -- what to wear, what consumer product to buys, who to take a romantic leap with. What a relief it is to rely on some cosmic force to assist us in these endeavors and to have a scapegoat for choices that don't work out. I envy your ability to believe in that cosmic force and wish you the best of luck during this murky time.
13
@Number23 thanks for your well wishes! I’m not sure if I believe or that I don’t not believe. In China when my colleagues suggest we wear or do xyz because of the moon or stars I go along... (why tempt fate)... during the PhD my Indian colleague wore colours for luck on specific days of the week ... I decided I needed all the luck I could get and followed the prescribed recommendations... I read my horoscope weekly and have been known to let a friend read my tarot. I guess I am a passive (and promiscuous) follower of astrology and the esoteric who enjoys getting caught up in the experience of benign collective belief.
4
@Connie
People need confidence but that doesn't imply there is any objective reality to the confidence-builders.
1
I am an experimental particle physicist, having worked at CERN for many years. I say this only to express that I am a scientist to the core. I look for insights and trends via data, petabytes of data if possible.
Being a curious person by nature, I started questioning this ‘astrology thing’. And as an experimentalist, I went on to study, conduct my own experiments .... to obtain empirical data.
I have spent about 10 years now studying Vedic (ancient Indian) astrology.
What can I say?! I’m confounded! I’ve been able to predict, well in advance, major events in mine and close family members’ lives. I have data to support my predictions vs actualization. I am simply stunned.
I don’t know what to say. As a scientist, I struggle. I really don’t understand how to explain this.
All I can say is a true scientist questions everything, even astrology. For a scientist, there is no such thing as ‘belief’. That’s for ideologues and theologians. Be open minded. Experiment. Conduct your experiments in as unbiased ways as you can. And respect the results. You might learn something new!
213
Yes ! Can't tell you how much your comments are appreciated. I am not a scientist, but an artist, and about a decade ago, i started studying vedic astrology. And it is astounding. It is 10's of thousands of years old, with texts and oral history providing a true and accurate background and basis. It shines light on the mysteries of all life, and if one is open, can touch ones heart and mind to the paradox and mysterious beauty that is life itself.
14
@Quantummess
Thank you for your brave comments.
I've personally given up trying to scientifically "prove" astrology, especially given the profoundly dishonest fashion that the professional skeptic community dealt with Michel Gauquelin's primitive studies, believing that the best that I can do is to fearlessly "demonstrate" it - and allow the chips to fall where they may.
I wonder if you have read Robert Lanza's two books - Biocentricism and Beyond Biocentricism - in which this working stem cell pioneer uses the core experiments of quantum physics to IMHO decimate the materialist worldview.
7
@Quantummess It's always easy to "predict" things if you start with the vague predictions of astrology and then define them as specific events later. Your idea of an "unbiased experiment" likely means no controls and ignoring of predictions that don't ever come true. Your supposed credentials don't mean much unless you can show actual data that anybody else will believe.
35
"studies have shown no correlation between the behavior of planets and of people."
The stars, though, have been shown to have many correlations with the behaviors of people. As Hesiod noted in his book Days and Works, the stars tell us quite well when to plant and when to reap. The Egyptians knew the correlation between the stars and the flooding the Nile, so the Egyptians lived their lives so that they would be in harmony with the stars.
People also have behaviors that or correlated with the motion of the moon. In addition to the menstrual cycle--the cycle of the moon--if you smudged ash on your forehead last Wednesday, your behavior was aligned with the movement of the stars because Ash Wednesday is found
At times the problems are in the stars as well as within ourselves. notwithstanding Shakespeare's comments. The correlations are not magic, nor is it madness to notice the connection. Our ancient ancestors surely surmised that we were not the cause of the moving of the stars, so it was a logical inference from the elimination of this possibility to think that it was the planets determining when we should plant and reap. when to work with the changing Nile, and when to perform our religious rituals.
40
@Che Beauchard
"The stars" didn't tell us anything. Keeping track of the stars' positions were a convenient timekeeping device that helped keep the calendar in sync. After all the
"movements" of the stars were another optical illusion. It was the Earth that was moving.
20
@Charlesbalpha
My point was simple, Charlesbalpha. There are correlations between the movements of the stars and the moon and human behaviors, and it was not crazy for people to notice them. Indeed, as Hesiod made clear some 28 centuries ago, noticing the correlations proves to be useful and tells us when to do or avoid useful things.. In the absence of better explanations, it made much sense to entertain the hypotheses based on the observations that the movement of the stars and the moon per se were important. Until the modern era, people had no way of thinking that these were optical illusions.
By the way, assuredly our explanations of the cosmos will be thought quite quaint to those who might be surviving in a few centuries, but we tend entertain the better explanations available to us at a given time. Of course, professional pride often leads to one explanation be preferred over another even when its not the best, and that's as true today as it was centuries ago, but that's grist for another article and another thread, and isn't the issue you are raising anyway.
7
@Che Beauchard The stars were a good way to keep track of seasons, a completely scientific phenomenon. That was science, not astrology. The ancients who studied astronomy had the upper hand over those who depended on superstition.
17
How can the position of planets affect affairs of people on Earth? In no way whatsoever.
Why, however, should we be shackled to Aristotelian concepts such as cause and effect?
Perhaps there are acausal connections between phenomena. Rather than dismissing such possible connections as nonsense, some consideration of them may be worthwhile.
1
The bottom in oil prices and the top in bond prices coincided with Halley's Comet in 1986. The top in stock market indexes in 1987 occurred on 8/24/1987, the date of the harmonic convergence. The crash on 10/20/87 coincided with the high in sun spot activity for the entire decade of the 1980's.
All that may be coincidence. Astrologists think otherwise.
8
By simple definition, these things are "coincidence." If the astrological interpretation of that coincidence is to be taken seriously, it must address the issue of cause, and the relevant forces involved.
1
I bought a new TV before I saw this. Fortunately, I have 15 days to return it.
4
@Sharon
Don't return it. Just leave it alone for a while; it will "ripen" (astrologically speaking of course) and work perfectly, even when planets are in "retrograde" mode.
Believe me, I know.
For anyone interested in the early scientific attempts to explain Mercury's appearance of retrograde motion, I recommend Thomas Levenson's "The Hunt for Vulcan". Subtitle "... and how Albert Einstein destroyed a planet, discovered relativity and deciphered the universe".
But regarding the astrological angle, if enough people walk retrograde at the same time, do things happen, like Jupiter misplacing one of it's smaller moons?
1
I was greatly alarmed last week. I no longer am thanks to this reassurance.
2
Is Mercury "flat" as well? Just asking. Curious if there is any overlap between the flat earthers and the astrologists. It would be great to see a debate between the two sides.
9
@Belasco
no, scientists will tell you that it is round. But it only has one side ...
4
I have a feeling that there isn't. Astrology isn't based on a rejection of science in the way that flat earth "theories" are. Astrologers do not deny that our solar system is heliocentric - rather, many astrological models are theoretically geocentric because human beings believe they are the center of the universe. That's not the same as believing that the universe is actually geocentric, in the same way that most models, scientific or not, are simplistic (e.g., scientists don't really think that atoms are made up of little red and white balls). It's not a scientific system, but it's also not a system fundamentally reliant on denying our observations of our world, the same way that art is not scientific. But no one would argue that art is not a useful way to try to understand our experiences.
Flat earthers are often paranoid and use fear-based arguments to push their craziness. Astrology is not a pseudoscience because it doesn't claim to be a science. I have heard flat earthers say "we're winning against science" which is insane. Unlike flat earth theories, science and astrology are not explicitly at odds. There is very little overlap between astrology and flat earth ridiculousness.
I think it’s hilarious that you’re ignorant of astrology’s own basic premises, and insist that you’re not calling something that you end in “logy,” a science.
Anyone who has visited an Emergency Room during a full moon will tell you that there’s something to the effect of the heavenly bodies on the human ones.
36
@S Connell Unless you actually check evidence, not anecdote, in which case you will find there is no such effect. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0735675796901242
15
“It’s a waste of your energy to be hating on astrology, because we really aren’t out here trying to harm people,” she said.”
Really? If you give people advice based on nonsense, it can be harmful. Think of medical advice, or telling someone not to take a job or get married until the stars are aligned. And, if you charge someone for astrological advice, you’re certainly causing them financial harm.
21
Why is it that uneducated feature writers refer to Mercury _in_ retrograde? Mercury's daily motion is sometimes faster, sometimes slower than the earth's. When it is in the portion of its cycle which is slower than the earth, it is retrograde , not "in" retrograde. Some people who pay attention to cycles pay attention to this. Just as there is a cycle of direct and retrograde motion of the planets, the price of hog futures, or in fact, the seasons, there is a cycle of articles debunking astrology abetted by uninformed writers, and people who feel it important to beat the drum for science. Loosen up, people. Live and let live.
4
In actual fact, Mercury's "daily motion" doesn't speed up or slow down.
2
@emcat
Your statement that Mercury's daily motion is sometimes faster and sometimes slower than Earth's is factually incorrect and indicates that you do not understand the idea of retrograde motion. Mercury is always moving faster than Earth in its orbit around the sun. Mercury only appears to be moving backward against the backdrop of the stars when we view it along a tangent of its orbit. Draw a diagram and see for yourself. Anyone who suggests that this simple optical illusion will somehow have any effect on our lives is delusional.
I always tell people that I know that astrology is all pseudoscientific nonsense. Then I say that my birthday is in early January, and a Capricorn is not gullible.
(I don’t REALLY know if a Capricorn is supposed to not be gullible, but re-read the first sentence.)
5
Astrology is bunk. The physician attending your birth has a greater gravitational pull on you than any planet.
"“It’s a waste of your energy to be hating on astrology, because we really aren’t out here trying to harm people,” she said." (I spend no energy on it.)
But it *can* harm people. If you rely on astrology to make decisions you can easily make a bad decision. If that decision relates to one's health, it could be disastrous. You can't do anything about gullibility, but it's imperative to develop a critical approach to unsubstantiated claims.
Now, I *am* getting new tires today. That should cover me.
7
Astrology is so retro!
; ]
" studies have shown no correlation between the behavior of the planets and people"
LOL.
Right, so we will all wake up when the sun goes down tomorrow.
13
@MaryTheresa - the sun is not a planet and it doesn't actually go down.
4
@MaryTheresa perhaps the sun is a star which emits light? Just a theory.
4
@MaryTheresa
This level,of scientific ignorance is apalling.
Once again, the sun is not a planet. The sun is a star.
The moon is not a planet, either. It’s a moon.
Planets are WAY too far away to exert any influence on people.
1
I’ve noticed that people usually fit their astrological sign and Chinese zodiac animal but daily horoscopes are ridiculous. It’s one thing to paint a picture of who we are but predicting the future should be left for climate scientists.
2
At the moment, 10:00 pm 3/14/19, Mercury is Cazimi*.
Time for the courageous to have a conversation (Mercury Rx) with their “inner light” (Sun) whereby they might realize Astrology is as old as time and full of human truths.
Science, yes! However, humans are also made of thoughts and emotions, which any learned Astrologer will help to support.
*Cazimi is a Medieval astrological term that is used to refer to planets that are so close to a conjunction with the Sun that they are “in the heart” of the Sun.
The astrological significance of the concept is that it was thought to be an ameliorating and strengthening factor for planets.
2
What do you believe the relationship is between "human truths" and facts?
1
@Brad Blumenstock
Love is the only true fact. Until we all get there fights and differences of opinion (over facts) will occur. Astrology teaches one to be patient as we all progress, however slowly, towards the everlasting light.
I thought that widespread interest in astrology died - along with the daily comic strips - when print newspapers pretty much vanished from life. I admit that almost every day for fun back then, I used to read what a Leo like myself could expect to occur in life. Astrology was good for laughs and it was even funnier when it was disclosed that Nancy Reagan was a true believer and was consulting astrologers in the White House. Hard to believe it continues to draw interest from otherwise serious people in 2019. Let's all embrace reality, folks.
8
@mpound
The reality is that Reagan is considered by many Democrats to be an inferior thinker - and his reliance on Joan Quigley (the astrologer) to elect times for events that that he did not wish to have enduring impact is alleged to be evidence of his lack of intelligence and seriousness.
And yet he nonetheless humiliated Democrats in two consecutive elections - and I say this as a Democrat - and was absolutely instrumental in bringing the Soviet Union to its knees.
Those are the facts.
Could Joan Quigley have played any part in forging Ronnie's presidential Teflon?
How did Reagan make fools of us for 8 years - while simultaneously bringing down the Soviet Union?
3
@Matthew Carnicelli
Is there any credible evidence that Ronald Reagan brought down the Soviet Union? A lot of people choose to believe that it was Pope John Paul II who did that. There may be other candidates claiming the honor; ... or could it be that the Soviet Union just collapsed on its own, when its people decided that enough was enough?
Do not underestimate the power of the people, and the stupidity, vanity, incompetence and arrogance of "the leaders".
1
@Fran
Soviet insiders themselves admit that Reagan's arms build up during the 80s pushed them beyond their capacity to compete, and especially after their Afghan debacle, beyond their capacity to compete.
Could a moderate Democrat have achieved the same effect, given the weakened state of the Soviet Union by the 1980s? Possibly.
But the fact remains that Democrats were never able to land a glove on Reagan - and Quigley may well have had some role in that.
1
Astrology is popular because science is hard.
53
And yet, and yet! Carl Gustav Jung worked with astrology, psychology, mythology, as well as philosophy, archeology and religion. We live and die inside a cosmos repeat with mystery and poetry, which sometimes provides a welcome break from politics, no?
21
And yet Jung played footsie with Hitler, too, as Freud did not.
Jung read alchemy; Freud started out as a student of Helmholtz. Bit of a diff, there.
1
not when it informs politics
I like to tell people that I know that astrology is all pseudo-scientific nonsense, because my birthday is in early January and “a Capricorn is not gullible”.
3
I guess this explains why FB went down yesterday
12
What is being missed is that astrology is fun...and funny. Could it be that millennials are just trying to lighten their days? I'll have to ask my millennials...I've got two.
Anything that brought us the musical Hair and the song Aquarius can't be all bad.
11
It’s ridiculous that people believe “mercury in retrograde” would affect anything in their lives.
3
@N
The Mercury retrograde biz was in effect when the Ethiopian flight went down. The fact of you not understanding something does not make it untrue.
Perhaps you could explain the cause and effect of that relationship (and the actual forces involved) to the rest of us.
1
The author states “studies have shown no correlation between the behavior of planets and of people.”- I’m curious -what studies have shown no correlation? Can you please provide the citation?
3
Better yet, what studies have shown such a correlation.
1
How do we reconcile Mercury retrograde with the fact that it the Chinese year of the pig? Should we have a TLB? Maybe a pulled Mercury sandwich? Oh forget it, let’s just all be Vegans.
1
omg, I so blame global warming.
amazing how people still believe things like this, or the earth is flat, or socialism.
@AutumnLeaf
I take it that you think it's written in the stars that we must organize our society around capitalism? In fact, capitalism has been around only for about 2 1/2 centuries--hardly evidence that it must be superior to other systems. Further, capitalism mandates that each person maximizes their own benefits over the benefits of others; and then somehow some magical hidden hand will bring benefits to everyone. But the hidden hand seems not to be functioning, as the top most rich people hold more wealth that the bottom 50%, quite a few of whom are homeless and often hungry, and many of those a young children. Capitalism isn't living up to what it promised. On its face this magical hidden hand is just as magical and nonsensical a belief as is the idea of mercury retrograde.
5
It's not about heavenly bodies influencing us, it's about repeating patterns.
7
Maybe we're looking at this the wrong way. Maybe we are affecting the planets. WHAT?! Oh....
2
PS: How many times does 88 go into 365-6? I'm sure some nice teacher's third grade can solve this for us. It should explain a lot.
I am willing to bet that people who follow astrology are not climate science deniers. So there’s that.
12
What about anti-vaxxers?
1
I'm an engineer and think astrology is a fun amusement. No serious person really takes it as anything beyond that.
For instance, if Barack Obama was astronomy, Trump is astrology. Y'know?
Yeah, astrology can be dangerous if you actually believe in it!
4
Of course! That explains everything that has been happening to me the last few weeks!
Can't the Air Force blast that annoying rock out of the sky!?
What do we have our military for?
Where is Trump when I need him????
5
People fail to realize that empirical science is just as much a human construct as astrology or any other new age trend. Substitute “the church”!for science and “priests” for scientists and the processes of knowledge construction and social control become much clearer.
3
Of course astrology is whacky. Numerology, on the other hand...
1
It's depressing that we would even be having this discussion. Astrology ranks right up there with phrenology and alchemy as utter frauds aimed at the scientifically illiterate. It's on the same level as flat-earthers and dragon slayers.
Hello! We're living in the twenty-first century and people are fretting over an apparent reversal of direction that is entirely explainable by a simple diagram? Are we really that painfully stupid? Apparently so.
No wonder we have Trump in the White House.
30
“If you have a situation where if there is intelligent guidance or there is not, you get precisely the same fossil record. So how can you scientifically distinguish? And what if the intelligent guidance was coming from a being, or intelligence, that is not a physical creature? Then how would you detect it? (…) the core definition of empirical science is, that it is a process that operates, that studies the natural world (the physical world) through observation and experiment. Now, if there is a supernatural - meaning ‘beyond the physical’ - intelligence that guides evolution, then by the ground rules of science itself, by their own self-definition, they cannot detect it. So in various ways, if there is or isn’t intelligent design a scientist could not detect it. And therefore when someone says everything evolved without intelligent guidance, they’re not making a scientific statement, they’re giving a declaration of their faith. There is nothing scientific about the statement because that statement does not derive from any recognizable scientific process. So therefore what is actually going on in the world, is that you get these materialists, philosophical materialists, that’s all they are, they are preachers, and materialism is practically a religious view, and they are preaching this crazy doctrine, and masking it, pretending that it’s science, when actually it’s not.”
– Howard Resnick, PhD
"The fault ... is not in our stars/ But in ourselves..."
3
Hey, I’m always forgetting stuff, whether Mercury is retrograde or not!
2
It is amazing that garbage like astrology is in the science section of a major global newspaper. Articles like this give legitimacy to fake science and should be in the lifestyle section or some other non news part of the paper. You might as well put some articles supporting anti vaxxers and perhaps some race superiority articles here too. Equal time for debate was meant for opinions not science. Scientific debate is something completely different and is fact based.
12
I'm speechless.
Anti-Vax. Identity politics. Crystals. Astrology. Donald Trump.
Surely this is the end of civilization.
6
"... Mercury, which is currently in retrograde."
Many NYT readers have heard of retrograde motion, but most of those don't know what it means. Virtually nobody has ever heard of bare "retrograde."
Here's a link to my Powerpoint slides from a 2008 lecture on the impact of the United States' Mercury retrograde (yes, the United States was born with Mercury retrograde, regardless of whether one uses July 2, the day of that the vote for independence took place, or July 4, 1776, the day that the Declaration of Independence was ratified).
This lecture is entitled "The Unfinished Work - The United States of America — a Mercury Retrograde Phenomenon", and I believe that it nicely illustrates the endemic confusion and complexity of initiatives that begin under a retrograde.
http://hpleft.com/unfinishedwork.pdf
4
Both dates could be considered arbitrary, given that neither the vote, nor the ratification, actually established the "United States of America" as a discrete and unified entity. That arguably wasn't accomplished until the Constitution was ratified.
Why is this in the New York Times?
Was it really necessary, to speak to "two prominent astrologers"? You could, you know, stop after mentioning that "In fact, studies have shown no correlation between the behavior of planets and of people".
What's next? Are you planning to interview any prominent flat Earth theorists? Or any cutting-edge pizzagate enthusiasts?
13
Astrology is just silly enough to be condemned.
Burn the tarot cards, shred the star charts, fire the horoscope writers, and please focus journalism elsewhere.
2
Astrology. Bunk. Back in the 70's I studied astrology for a year, but since I was a scientist, I looked at it skeptically as everyone should look at anything that does not have a firm foundation of evidence. I concluded then it was bunk. Now we have a new generation of nitwits and they're falling for it. I want to cash in on this, as in strip mine some cash from all the gullible idiots running around in this country.
5
Hitler and other top Nazis were way into astrology, and based major decisions on their astrological readings, including the decision to keep fighting to defend Berlin when it was obvious the Russians were going to overrun the city - because their reading told them a surprise change for the better was in their future. This cost maybe a hundred thousand more people their lives than if Hitler had surrendered at the point when he got that reading done.
So... maybe saying "not harming people" should be used a little cautiously.
6
@Mark
Are you suggesting that science cannot be similarly harmful? Why did Albert Einstein say that if could have seen the future he would have become a locksmith?
2
Astrologers are well aware that the planet Mercury doesn't actually move backwards when it is retrograde. It only appears to be moving backwards from our perspective on Earth. You can do better than this, NYT.
22
Since the phenomenon is actually only a matter of (flawed) perception, how does it actually "cause" any of the effects it is used to explain?
Do the placements of the stars in the heavens at the moment of your escape from the birth canal affect who you are in a "cosmic" sense?
Sure
Can it be explain in words and language?
Hahahahahahahahahaha.
1
What utter nonsense.
4
Leonardo da Vinci was an Aries, but so was Hitler. A lot in common those two. Mercury in retrograde? So, are some humans, apparently.
4
@Didier
Hitler was a Taurus.
Just when we're being told that Millennials are becoming more engaged in politics (which is the ONLY legitimate way to change Reality) - now this article tells us that they're seeking refuge in nonsense like astrology because they can't deal with Reality.
For thousands of years the "Powers That Be" have tried to distract the masses from "the man behind the curtain" with nonsense like "bread and circuses", papal indulgences, superstitions galore (including astrology), religion ("the opiate of the masses" according to Marx), gambling, sports - and lately TV, video games and "virtual reality".
All of these distractions are laid out like a smorgasbord of "shiny objects" by the Oligarchy so that the masses will lose sight of the fact that they're being exploited, manipulated and abused by "the people who really run things".
Please, Millennials, keep your eyes on the prize. Or as John Lennon once sang:
I don't believe in magic,
I don't believe in I-Ching,
I don't believe in Bible,
I don't believe in tarot,
I don't believe in Hitler,
I don't believe in Jesus,
I don't believe in Kennedy,
I don't believe in Buddha,
I don't believe in mantra,
I don't believe in Gita,
I don't believe in yoga,
I don't believe in kings,
I don't believe in Elvis,
I don't believe in Zimmerman,
I don't believe in Beatles -
I just believe in me
Yoko and me
And that's reality.
_______
That's all there is, folks. "We the People" - acting in unison to try to make the world a better place.
2
Say what you want. The notorious 2000 election happened during Mercury retrograde.
I notice EVERYTHING with my computer screwing up about this time.
This is not to determine that a planet *governs* our lives. But there *may be* something to being able to discern through the heavenly bodies. They do not govern, but they might inform.
For centuries, skeptics and seekers alike have pondered the star of Bethlehem. The Bible describes unusual or even impossible astronomical events at Christ's birth. Was it a miracle or mere myth? A compelling DVD examines Scripture, ancient writings, indisputable astronomical facts and more. Read: the "star of Bethlehem" was basically a Mercury retrograde.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1121971/?ref_=nv_sr_4
1
@Padonna
Too bad we cannot blame the calamitous 2016 election on Mercury retrograde!
Real astrology, not mass media "sun sign" horoscopes, is incredibly interesting and provides great insight into the history of both science and human self-knowledge. I'm always surprised that D&D and Magic the Gathering playing, Sci-Fi and comic book reading, cos-play going science PhDs and arm-chair skeptics who find insight and inspiration in those things can't spend a couple of days cracking open some serious books to learn about astrology fundamentals.
10
I've been an astrologer since 1971 BC, Before Computers. It is an art/Science, like any major discipline taught in universities.
The apparent motions of planets, like the stars, are interpreted because of their geocentric relationship, to us as individuals and collectively. The predictable cycles of these movements provide dates and times for the "weather" we experience. There are vast amounts of variables and modifications in the many combinations and ongoing cycles.
The science of astrology lies in its calculations, simple for any computer, allowing for the measuring of the timing of phases.
The art (and the proof) is in the reading. Some readings involve layered study, to recognize the key aspects. Or, if I'm handed a chart without study, it's like sight reading music. I look at the Ascendant and go from there, moving around the chart like I'm studying a melody. What is critical is to be able to, as astrologer Noel Tyl said, "Communicate the chart."
BTW, The Gore/Bush 2000 election occurred when Mercury, the planet of elections and certifications was Stationary, just leaving retrograde, a critical state for Mercury.
10
Planets are never "Stationary." How does something that isn't even actually occurring produce effects?
1
@Brad Blumenstock, Again, it is the apparent relationship and movement that defines Sationary, Retrograde, and Direct. It does not mean that the planet stands still. Like the Solstices, the Sun is not actually standing still, but its position and view from the Earth makes it appear that way. Why does that matter? Because astrology is based on relative positions and movements in connection with the Earth, and not the planets behaviors by themselves.
1
It's so discouraging. How can our country hope to make any rational policy decisions when there are really people who believe this stuff?
29
@Thomas
Ronald Reagan used astrology, didn't he?
4
@Thomas, as a practicing astrologer, I don't believe in it, I use it. It's a tool.
1
@emcat - Nancy Reagan did, and he was fine with going along with it.
1
I tried to ignore the retrograde warning regarding electronics years ago because of the opportunity to buy a computer on a tax-free day. What could go wrong ? you can’t always believe these things, I told myself ... It turned out to be the one computer I’ve bought which consistently has bizarre electrical problems - worse of all, it would be fine at the Apple store, so could never get properly fixed. Not quite a dud, but not quite right either
9
@mm sounds like most apple prouducts I’ve bought no matter if the planets were going forward or backward
"Of course, actual scientists point out that any “retrograde” motion by Mercury is an optical illusion."
On the other hand, actual *competent* scientists know that it is not an optical illusion.
2
I'm confused by your statement. Do you believe that scientists think Mercury actually sometimes moves backwards, or not?
Dr. Carl Jung, the founder of analytical psychology, stated,"I would never attempt deep analysis with someone without first looking at their astrological chart." It is clear to anyone who seriously explores the art of astrology that it is an extremely useful tool for self-understanding.
The sun is considered one of the most important factors in astrology and scientific evidence points to its enormous impact on our lives. From a 2018 article in the journal Scientific Reports (published by Nature) entitled "Long-Term Study of Heart Rate Variability Responses to Changes in the Solar and Geomagnetic Environment": "Many studies have been published describing a broad range of physiological, psychological, and behavioral changes associated with changes or disturbances in geomagnetic activity and solar activity....Increased solar activity has not only been associated with social unrest, it is also associated with the periods of the greatest human flourishing with clear spurts of innovation and creativity in architecture, arts, sciences, and positive social change, as well as with variable human performance in the financial markets....It appears that sharp or sudden variations in geomagnetic and solar activity as well as geomagnetic storms can act as stressors, which alter regulatory processes such as melatonin/serotonin balance, blood pressure, breathing, reproductive, immune, neurological, and cardiac system processes."
12
@Jonathan
You haven't cited any real scientific studies, so please elaborate. It's also important to note that astrologers have no basic understanding of solar and geomagnetic fluctuations, and I've never seen an astrologer do anything more than discuss which "house" the sun is in.
Apparently, things have changed since I was a student at Cornell, in Ithaca. Back then, we dealt with science, not psychobabble.
16
@Jonathan And astrology predicts these (imaginary) effects in what way? Are Libras immune from solar activity today while Geminis are not--or "whatever"?
Stop deceiving yourself--astrology is bunk.
4
@Jonathan But isn't your reply trying to combine two points that are kind of incompatible? In your first paragraph, you suggest that astrology is useful as a tool of self understanding. Ok, fair enough. But then you jump to a vague, implied association between astrology and sociology. It's a bit intellectually dishonest to juxtapose a relatively benign first statement (who am I to judge a person's methods for self discovery?) with an implication that astrology has scientific merit as a field. But the fact that "the sun is considered important in astrology" (ok... the sun has a pretty central role in a lot of culture) somehow implies a particular relationship is simply misleading.
5
As someone who to rabidly pro-science and a fan of Susan Miller And other astrologers, I think there’s a larger conversation that’s missed here and that’s entailed in the history of Western religious thought. Yes, I am also a person of faith. Astrology was a religious system and after the establishment Christianity in the West, the destruction of great ancient libraries, part of the development of the West since the Renaissance was to recover ancient knowledge that we know was lost. One book that clarifies this is “John Dee and the Empire of Angels”. I am of the view that we don’t know everything and we need to stop putting people’s faith in whatever on trial and test. Astrology does provide insights that I’ve found resonates. People should talk about it. You never know how things are connected and that curiosity should be respected as well as we would another’s faith in an unseen but all powerful Creator.
35
@YAJ There are lots of things we do that are entertaining, enlightening, and enjoyable that don’t have to be scientifically proven or even reality based to be valuable. Nothing wrong with that. However, there has to be some way for us to resolve our differences, and evidence and reasoned arguments seem like a pretty good way to do that. What would it be like if our courts based judgments on opinions and beliefs? So perhaps the only issue with astrology is that might take away from practicing rational throught based on available facts. Given how our current politics is drifting away from the truth for specific benefit, maybe we should renew our commitment to rational thought.
4
@jim
Our courts do base judgments on opinions and beliefs. That's how valued athletes get different sentences for rape than other folks. That is how white collar crime is somehow less serious than street crime even when it affects more people and costs more.
1
As an 11 year old I remember hearing Carl Sagan as he addressed astrology. I don't remember the exact wording but to paraphrase: "Some say that horoscopes are harmless but they're wrong. They harm your mind".
68
@alr52159: Live long and prosper!
4
@alr52159 If this quote is correctly attributed to Mr. Sagan, it bespeaks prejudice and frankly, Mr. Sagan is/was wrong. Astrology is a tool for guidance, personal growth, understanding and healing. Yes, it is an art form that has a basis in ancient astronomy and the artful interpretation of the planets as they relate or aspect one another. It is not a harmful art form or science, and horoscopes do not harm the mind. Horoscopes are useful to develop personal understanding and understanding of others, nevertheless, Mr. Sagan's quote and opinion makes sense. Everyone, every group, everyone but everyone it seems (except for broadminded people confident within their own selves); everyone needs a black sheep, an "N" word, and or a whipping post to sacrifice; brand as harmful or evil and anti-God for that matter in some instances. Mr. Sagan is no different in that regard, now is he?
8
No, it’s not harmful directly, but it is a symptom of something that IS harmful - scientific illiteracy and susceptibility to pseudoscientific ideas. Astrology itself might be harmless but the scientific ignorance that allows it to be popular in the first place such id not. It’s the same ignorance that enables climate change denial and the anti-vaxx movement. I understand the appeal of astrology but I will never respect it.
130
I STRONGLY AGREE.
10
@Alexandra
Replace "astrology" with "Abrahamic religion" and we arrive at common ground- exemplified by your last sentence.
Enough said?
11
It is not the same ignorance (astrology does not claim to be a science, and does not ignore science). I encourage you to read more of the arguments from actual astrologers rather than on arguments from non-astrologers. You don't have to buy into astrology, but repeating uninformed arguments is not useful.
7
Astrology is not scientific, but many people find it an insightful framework that helps them in their relationships and it life. You could say exactly the same about the Myers Briggs Type Indicator - it is not at all scientific, but may people find it an insightful framework that helps them in their relationships and in life. Perhaps all of the corporations and government agencies that promote Myers Briggs as a personnel management tool should also look into astrology.
41
"... but many people find it ..."
Many people find all kinds of nonsense helpful. That is not a good reason to believe the nonsense.
11
When one speaks of Astrology, one really needs to specify whether, Vedic, Western, Chinese, etc.
These are very different schools of thought. Same planetary mention, of course, but very different interpretations of it!
34
@Quantummess
"When one speaks of Astrology, one really needs to specify whether, Vedic, Western, Chinese, etc."
Like we need to distinguish dragons from unicorns? No, we don't. They are all exactly the same: non-existent.
8
@Quantummess
The very fact that these different schools of thought have very different interpretations of astrology is a strong indication that they're all wrong. Any scientific hypothesis that fails to accurately predict behavior is discarded, and astrology fails miserably. It ranks right up there with religion as a sound explanation of natural phenomena.
10
@Quantummess
"These are very different schools of thought. Same planetary mention, of course, but very different interpretations of it!"
And they ALL work. ANY discipline that provides a framework for introspection and self-knowledge will produce visible, quantifiable benefits to the practitioner. The power is not in the stars or the cards or the runes, but in the mind striving to obey the Greek maxim: Know Thyself.
Astrology is essentially a religion with neither a god nor goddess nor ethical teachings. Even the Greek and Roman and Norse gods and goddesses had something to teach us, even if it mostly reflected human weaknesses. It shows the failure of so many conventional religions and their immoral leaders that people are willing to believe in this. It is also a commentary on the failure of our schools to explain the difference between science and psuedoscience.
15
@Ken modern science has ruined everything honestly if you did do your research astrology was a science
2
What???? Clearly you don't know much about astrology - the planets are named after Greek, Roman, Indian, etc. gods and goddesses and their mythology is key to astrology.
1
My wife is a semi-professional astrologer, and while I don't buy into the "model," I've certainly seen first hand the value that astrology can provide to some people. She doesn't predict the future, she doesn't tell people what to do, but she does tie people's personalities to events in their lives, using astrology as a tool to help them understand themselves.
So, no, astrology's not scientific and it's not supported with peer-reviewed analysis, but it certainly offers a perspective to many that is very helpful. As my wife always tells me, don't bash it until you fully understand it, and if you take the time to understand what the overall point of astrology is (as I have tried to do), you might just be pleasantly surprised.
91
@Peter Christensen There is no value to astrology. It offers no valid "perspective". It is a crock. Period.
16
@Peter Christensen In other words, your wife is a good listerner and empathetic, able to see the whole person, attentive to fine nuances in their behaviour, provides soothing support. The world can always use more people like that. Now, whether Mercury really affects people, or it's just a pretext to have people come in and bare their souls to your wife, that's another matter I should think.
7
“The meteoric rise of New Age practices may be trendy, but it’s one way millennials are acknowledging that the current system isn’t working,”
Right, that system called Rational Thinking doesn't function well for millennials, I've witnessed that problem.
54
@SL: OK this comment is something I owe a couple friends. They are part of the Millennial Age Group. Just when they were born. However as they have told me, several times, they are not ‘millennials’. They are regular human beings, who worked hard to get through college & now to make way in careers. Just like us old codgers did. (I’m 68 & have no kids, so no grandkids. They have adopted me as a grandmother, for which I thank them). To make amends for calling them millennials several times I said that here in the comment columns of TNYT I would remind everyone that just because you are part of a certain age group, doesn’t mean you have the same beliefs, actions, or wants as those being discussed. As they told me. I am the right age to have been a hippie. Wasn’t was dating Sailors & married one 47 years ago. No hippie would do that.
That’s 1. OK Kami & Snow?
2
@SL. That's not really fair. The current system ISN'T working for younger generations - they have more debt, lower income relative to cost of living, climate change, and a sort of general feeling that aspects of American culture, ideals, and the notion of success are unfulfilling. They have grown up in a hyper-competitive world. There is a massive amount of very evident hypocrisy at all levels of society, churches are political and out of step with many young people's values (and I mean good values - acceptance, caring for others and the planet, science). Many traditions and skills have been lost and not passed on (I didn't learn my family's traditional food culture because my parents never learned it). Many young people have grown up with the idea that if they just get a job and a small house in a small town and have a normal life that is a failure. Sure, you can work against that notion, but it takes time, courage and self-awareness to get there, often while you've already given a lot to a different path. People are mobile and often live far from families. Depression, anxiety and drug use are rampant. So yeah, something isn't working.
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..." studies have shown no correlation between the behavior of the planets and people". Two of the most dominant heavenly bodies are the moon and the Sun. The Moon has a major effect on the tides and their daly cycles, the movement of water around the earth is constantly in motion, that affects every person on the planet. Also, the moon has an impact on the menstrual cycles of all of the women, and probably animals on earth. The Sun's effect on life on earth can't be overstated, all life on earth is dependent on the Sun's energy for the cycles of life, in plants, animals, and people. I don't think one has to be a rocket scientist to understand the interconnectedness of all things, why the big controversy?
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There is no correlation between the behavior of planets and people. The sun and moon are not planets. The planets have no ( or a negligible ) effect on the Earth.
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@DPK The sun's effect on Earth through its immense radiation and the moon's gravitational effects on the oceans are real.
The impact of a planet's location on someone's luck or success is not.
You're correct. It shouldn't be a controversy. But your point is apples and oranges.
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@Freddy, I think you should dig a little deeper into your preconceived notions of the interconnectedness of all living things, plants, animals, and humans. you might be amazed!
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Humans bodies are not just bones and muscles. Water is vital. We are 60% water. The the moon can affect the tides on the beaches to ebb and flow twice a day, certainly there must be some effect on our bodies and emotions. So it makes sense that other planetary bodies would have effects as well. It's quite a fascinating study.
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@zcaley What study? There is no sound study demonstrating differential gravitational effects of other planets, let alone stars, on the human body to any significant degree. An 80-ton truck exerts about as much gravitational pull on a human body from 100m away as does the whole of Mars.
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@zcaley
Even if gravity were to influence emotion, and I don't believe that is anything other than anecdotal, if you consider how gravity works it makes no sense at all. Other planetary bodies are orders of magnitude further away and the influence of gravity decreases as the cube root of distance!
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@anakbetawi
Field Effect or inverse square law, i.e. inversely proportional to the square of the distance
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This would explain why my Magic 8-Ball stopped working. I guess I could cross my fingers and use science until March 28. Wish me luck.
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Outlook: Hazy.
Try. Again. Later...
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People willingly ignorant of scientific fact are the bane to our society. What is terrifying is that there are so many ignorant people among us, some forming government policy.
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I know, those Democrats man
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Since forever
@Paulie
Ignorance is a lack of knowledge or information. Since you ignorant of Astrology I will try to help a little. Astrology is a symbolic interpretation of Astronomy. It has been used for thousands of years to understand our spiritual natures and predict events. Think of Astrology as Yin and Astronomy as Yang. Because Astrology is esoteric in nature, requiring years of ongoing study, Astrology and Astrologers are often marginalized and misunderstood.
I started studying astrology 35 years ago when I was going through a particularly difficult period. I found that Astrology provides a framework for understanding myself and others and helps me to understand the seasons of my life. It is amazingly accurate, as a scientist has attested to in another comment on this post. Many people find comfort in traditional religion, some are only interested in material based science but others, like me, have found meaning through Astrology.
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