Vance's charges are totally political.
Which is fair for Democrats to do, but just without the hypocrisy that Dems stand for "fairness" in the system.
After all, before Marc Rich was pardoned by Bill Clinton in 2000, the Manhattan DA's Office, a Dem bastion, would never have thought of filing "state charges" against a Clinton pardon recipient.
The NYT Times once knew this fact, and condemned it.
The New York Times: An Indefensible Pardon, JAN. 24, 2001.
But Vance's filing of "state charges" is just one more sign of Trump Derangement Syndrome.
And thank goodness we don't have "political prosecutions" in the USA.
3
The indictment from Manhattan mentions only the Howard Street property. Manafort also owns a brownstone in Cobble Hill on Union Street. It has been reported that bank fraud is also involved in this property. Can Manafort be indicted by the Brooklyn district attorney in regard to his lies to get a loan for the Brooklyn brownstone?
1
NYT reporting identified the key advisder who helped the Trumps and other wealthy families evade NYS estate tax. These families stole more than Manafort and have been nourished by their stolen gains for decades. If the cooperation and/or records of the fixer who guided them can be obtained by state authorities restitution could be sought. The state should seek to collect the correct tax even if it requires repealing the applicable statute of limitations.
6
As a former Fed, I assure the Times' readers that there is (or should be) no joy in imprisoning anyone. So forgive me for being taken aback by the glee expressed in some of the comments. Perhaps we should pause to consider whether and how our country's ideological divisions are affecting how the justice system treats Paul Manafort and Roger Stone and those who will surely follow.
2
The criminal charges against Manafort are very clear and he must be punished for his crimes just like everyone else. The fact that his crimes may be considered "white collar" crimes does not affect his sentencing. He lied, worked with foreign governments to the detriment of U.S. interests, committed tax evasion and got caught because of his greed. He must receive the maximum sentence from NY state, since he will be pardoned for his federal sentence anyway.
3
I have yet to understand why everyone thinks Trump would pardon Manafort. Politically it's crazy and they were not particularly close in any way. Don't hold your breath. Not gonna happen.
"...the president said, “I feel very badly for Paul Manafort,”...
Shouldn't the next question for President Trump be ---- Why do you feel so for badly feel badly for Manafort?
A felon convicted of five counts of tax fraud, two counts of bank fraud and one count of failure to disclose a foreign bank account.
5
I really have some problems with these sentences. Some black guy sells drugs to willing customers, and gets the book thrown at him.
Paul Manafort spents his life working for the sleaziest dictators on the planet, defrauds the US government of millions (sticking it to the honest taxpayer in the process), uses his cronies to defraud numerous banks (stcking it to their shareholders in the process), tampers with witnesses, breaks a cooperation agreement and lies to federal investigators (sticking it to us all in the process), and finally gets all teary-eyed and repentant because he's 70 and going to jail. Like the man who killed his mother, and claims pity as an orphan.
The President thinks he's a good man, and deserving of sympathy. I think any sentencing guidelines and exercise of judicial discretion that don't send him away on hard time for the rest of his natural life require our revision. Because this is a lesson in how greed and evil pay, and it is the wrong lesson.
7
Good grief, how many times can you possibly burn the same witch at the stake? The Salem trials weren't near this bad...political expediency makes all the difference. His only real 'crime' here was helping DJT get elected POTUS. Obama's DOJ even passed on prosecuting him for unrelated crimes from years ago.
3
Actually, Trump has a few options here, for Manafort and himself: he could pardon him for the Federal crimes now, get him released before the NY trial, then let him be spirited out of the country to a friendly or non-extradition country like Russia or Saudi Arabia. Trump could also do this himself. In fact, I suspect that if Trump loses the election that he will disappear one day, a few weeks before the innaugaration, leaving a note of resignation with a lawyer, and having himself spirited out of the country to Russia or Saudi Arabia. And Mike Pence will get to be president for a few weeks.
2
Being a friend of the president or should I say member of his criminal enterprise does not give you a get out of jail free card for criminal activity. Everyone is subject to the law. We have many instances where wealth has exempted so many including the current low sentences for Mr. Manafort on serious federal charges. This must stop. A new wave of enforcing the law for all may be the only good thing to come out of the Trump disaster. Wealth will still help bail out many but let's get as many people who commit crimes to pay the price like ordinary citizens do.
6
Yeah! As usual, the criminal shows up in court in a wheel chair looking for lenience. Please punish him for all of his malign activities....
5
You have to admit, it’s quite something to see Trumpists get up on the ol’ Moral Virtue soapbox and yawp about decency, the rule of law, and human rights.
I mean, it’s been obvious for years that that stuff’s just stuff that Trump mouths when he’s feeling clever, but still...
6
trump sought multiple military deferrals and believed that his acts of bravery consisted of dodging STDs in the Manhattan nightclubs. trump also criticized John McCain for getting captured.
So when trump classifies Manafort as a brave man, we can gain some insight from the foregoing: 1) Manafort was brave enough to lie on his bail application and brave enough to try to suborn perjury from his jail cell?; 2) Brave because he is stupid enough to think that trump can or will protect him?
Given the state directed prosecutions, Manafort may never see the light of day. It will be no small irony that the state prosecutors' fear of a presidential pardon will have stripped away from Manafort the potential protections of any such pardon by leaving him exposed to state prosecution as the state's defense against trump's malfeasance.
Manafort will have fallen to friendly fire, but only in the metaphor, that is the closest trump will ever get to combat: bringing down one of his own with his negligence.
3
More money New York State doesn’t have wasted on endless vindictive “investigations” . How about that 850 mil the mayors wife wasted?, where is the investigation on that ?
3
@Bill Lombard Yeah! Whattabout that? And how about Bengazi?
3
But won't the judge have been paid off again? Or someone will expose how he cheated to get into Law Skool?
Double Jeopardy? Is this serious?
4
This is how you “drain the swamp”.
Maybe we can get our “representatives” to stop betraying us if there are real consequences for their corruption.
4
Vance says “no one is beyond the law in New York”
No one if course except Ivanka and Jared who gave Vance campaign contributions while under investigation and then avoided prosecution
You connect the dots
Had Vance done his job then we could have been spared the Trump nightmare Presidency.
Nice that he at long last is doing his job. But will he stop at Manafort or will he go for the Trump crime family?
Or do they have too much on him?
6
Surely tough on crime conservatives are not in favor of looking the other way just because a criminal is on their team. Lock her up and drain the swamp must apply to all,not just to Hillary and her connections in the nefarious underground of wealth and power. And states rights, aren't they important here? Shouldn't a state have the right to charge criminals even when the all powerful feds try to free admitted criminals with a pardon? Conservatives should applauding this.
3
@GW It all depends on whose criminal is being looked at. Republicans can find so many excuses/reasons why their guy was 'forced' into impropriaties (crimes). Any pardon would be on Trump-he does not represent the Federal government despite his position at the present time.
More of his “otherwise blameless life”. I think we’re up to 40ish crimes he’s been charged with so far. Good instincts Judge Ellis.
3
Well, so much for the "otherwise blameless life." Under the United States of Trump, Paul Manafort is someone we should feel sorry for. So he twisted the rules or even broke them? He was playing the system! It's not as if he robbed a bank.
Well, yes it is. Manafort has been playing dirty for decades and if he is sorry, it's because he got caught and finally has to pay the piper. This is what would be happening to Donald Trump if he wasn't hiding behind the Resolute Desk in the Oval Office.
We are a nation of laws. Book 'im, Danno.
4
This is not prosecution, but selective persecution of a person because they don't like Trump. They are proud to admit they will charge him with spurious crimes on the off-chance that Trump will pardon him for the actual crimes he is accused of committing. All stemming from a fake Russian dossier paid for by Democrats trying to anoint Hillary as President.
3
Harold Washington was sentenced to Federal prison for income tax evasion (before being elected mayor of Chicago). It would have been unconscionable for the state of Illinois to also go after him for state income tax evasion (even though that would have been a different crime). Vance’s action is as wrong as Manafort’s conduct.
1
And did he evade State taxes? To a significant degree?
By the way, it’s pretty unconscionable for a Trumpist to be using the wird, “unconscionable.”
4
Wallstreet is in New York. There seems to be many people above the law often because they buy people who make the laws.
3
Donnie- Tell him not to do criminal activities and then you won't have to feel sorry for him. Not hard to figure out.
PS: And tell your son in law th same thing.
16
Maybe they’ll throw the Bible (book) he swears on once convicted and put away?
That would be an amazing story.
4
@JC If he signs it an Evangelical will pay big bucks for it.
3
8 to 25 years if he's guilty... I love N.Y. Now they need to go after all the other people guilty of these crimes too (including the Trumps).
17
Utterly despicable the way the Democrats and their minions are going after Mr. Trump's allies. Total witch hunt and abuse of the judicial system. I cant wait for Mr. Trumps re election in 2020. Revenge will be sweet.
6
What is it about these two short paragraphs you find so hard to comprehend?
"About a month later, he pleaded guilty in the related case in federal court in Washington, D.C., and agreed to cooperate with Mr. Mueller’s office. But the deal did not last long, blowing up after a federal judge ruled he had repeatedly lied to the government about his contact with a Russian associate during the campaign and after the election.
Prosecutors claim that the associate, Konstantin V. Kilimnik, has ties to Russian intelligence, and have been investigating whether he was involved in a covert attempt to influence the election results."
6
It’s pretty rich to see Trumpists trying to yank those tattered, -smeared Moral Virtue and Due Process cards out of their ragged sleeves.
2
@PGM And, assuming the impossible in 2020, what will that revenge be?
3
How Manafort had been doing these serious financial crimes without getting caught? How many criminals and corrupt big shots like Manafort are there? Where has been FBI ? IRS ? Police ? Where was our government ? It is fishy and suspicious. May be bribes worked for him. The Republican judge was very unfair to judiciary recommendation. He did not see the serious degree of criminality. He saw a millionaire white male of his own political party. People are loosing trust in our judicial system, the courts and the judges. Our judges are very cruel to the African American and latino people even to the kids for simple shop lifting .
9
I have read a few comments about double jeopardy. I’m no legal eagle but I’m pretty sure if the same crime is committed in two different states, each state has the legal authority to indict and criminalky prosecute. So those of you who think “he led a blameless life” manafort is being picked on...sorry he deserves the book that will be thrown at him.
“While you cannot be charged twice in one state for a crime that you were acquitted or convicted of, you may be charged twice in different states for the same crime. For instance, your conduct can be treated as two (or more) separate criminal acts if that conduct violated the laws of more than one state. Furthermore, if that conduct was a federal offense, you may be tried and convicted in both a state and federal court. This is known as the "dual sovereignty doctrine," and it is an exception to the "Double Jeopardy Clause" of the U.S. Constitution.“
11
Looking forward to NY lining up indictments to level onto Trump the moment he leaves office.
This man will rue the day he decided to take this entire country for a ride so he could build some hotels and golf courses in Russia.
Proud to be a New Yorker.
10
@Nick I'm not sure, Nick, but I think it could be permitted only for a capital crime; and even then, a new president would hesitate almost forever because of the way it would look both at home and abroad.
What's shaping up is an exceptional tactical response to Trump that won't rely on impeachment or Republicans. Manafort and Trump both be hounded by New York state, and other Attorney Generals, if necesscary.
Manafort will be out of reach of Presidential pardon, and Trump will have court rooms, legal bills and business ruin awaiting him once the Democrats replace him in 2020. At some point we'll see Trump turn into a lame duck, and salute Nancy Pelosi all the more.
Now it's time for Democrats to start governing, setting up issues and clear choices for voters.
11
Liberals are cheering this politically motivated prosecution
Just like when folks said when Harry Reid changed the rules approving judges democrats would rue that day, democrats will once again rue this very questionable political use of the states attorney office.
3
@William Rodham and therefore?
@William Rodham
Just once can we set aside attempts to label folks judging the issues on their merits?
What would be the greater miscarriage of justice, Mr. Manafort being pardoned by the president, or the possibility of the case involving double jeopardy?
The answer is clear to anyone who wants to discourage their fellow citizens from engaging in similar criminal activity in the future.
6
What about these two simple paragraphs do you find so hopelessly difficult to comprehend?
"About a month later, he pleaded guilty in the related case in federal court in Washington, D.C., and agreed to cooperate with Mr. Mueller’s office. But the deal did not last long, blowing up after a federal judge ruled he had repeatedly lied to the government about his contact with a Russian associate during the campaign and after the election.
Prosecutors claim that the associate, Konstantin V. Kilimnik, has ties to Russian intelligence, and have been investigating whether he was involved in a covert attempt to influence the election results."
3
“Show me the man, and I'll show you the crime".
You might be celebrating now, but you won't be once its your party members being jailed for being on the wrong side politically.
This is bad for everyone!
5
@Eddy " Mr. Manafort used foreign accounts to hide millions of dollars he earned from his political consulting work in Ukraine and evade taxes, and lied to banks to obtain millions of dollars in loans. About a month later, he pleaded guilty in the related case in federal court "
Of course, it's all about party politics. That must be why he pleaded guilty.
7
@Eddy
Who is celebrating?
What's really bad for everyone is insisting we all look the other way because Mr. Manafort happens to be a Republican who supported Trump.
If people like Mr. Manafort would keep their noses clean, they wouldn't face these kinds of problems.
2
Ordinarily we would not charge him, but we're worried about a POTUS pardon. So we will pass on our usual policy of ignoring white collar crime..as we usually prefer harassing small shop owners.
5
What a waste of time and money. Political grandstanding by a DA whose primary motivation seems to be publicity. How will the public good be served by any of this? Trump did not collude with the Russians so we get this instead?
6
@Larry "Trump did not collude with Russians"? You know this how? If you have your advance copy of the charges against the Trump campaign and administration, please quote your sources.
2
A gross, obvious politicization of our "justice" system.
The clear statement by the District Attorney of Manhattan that " an effort to ensure he will still face prison time if Mr. Trump pardons him for his federal crimes" means "We are after President Trump and will use our court system to visit revenge on him.
Worse, Vance doesn't worry that the statement is biased from a guy who is supposed to mete out equal justice. If this were a blatant attack on someone from a Democrat Administration, the Press would hound the guy out of town.
Shame on them all.
5
@Tom Mariner And shame on him for pleading guilty to a crime he didn't commit ??? Wow !
3
Yes, Trump can pardon Manafort, even though the charges are politically motivated State charges. Just because no president has pardoned anyone charged with State crimes before does not mean that Trump won't do that or that doing that would be unconstitutional. The constitutionality would be a determination for our Supreme Court to make, not liberals at the NYTs. The U.S. Constitution simply says that the president can pardon anyone for crimes against the United States without defining what that phrase means. Past presidents have deferred to the governors of States in the past but we have never had a situation like this one where an out-of-control political party has charged someone convicted of federal charges with essentially the same crimes in a State court as an act of defiance against a duly elected sitting president. I would remind everyone that the power to pardon is the only right of kings granted to the president by our Founding Fathers, and as a power of kings it makes no sense the our Founding Fathers intended that power to be limited only to Federal charges.
6
The Fifth Amendment to the US Constitution prohibits placing a defendant in double jeopardy and this prohibition applies to the states via the principle of incorporation. Therefore Cyrus Vance's double prosecution of Manafort in New York is unconstitutional. Such double jeopardy prosecutions are rationalized by the intellectually weak principle of so called "dual sovereignty" famously enunciated by Justice O'Connor. However, any rigorous application of reason and logic would conclude that the Fifth Amendment prohibition of double jeopardy is fatal to the common law principle of "dual sovereignty" in the Manafort case. The federal combination of an $11 million financial forfeiture plus 7.5 years in prison is just punishment for Mr. Manafort and Mr. Vance's thinly veiled double jeopardy prosecution constitutes ghoulish partisan piling on.
7
You are missing the point. This is about political revenge and is what passes for "justice" in some quarters. A surprisingly high number of people think this is a good thing, as long as it "happens" only to politicians (and their supporters) who they don't like.
6
I guess you didn’t read the story. These are people who have law degrees and they know the law. Here for you in case you missed it.
“No one is beyond the law in New York,” he said, adding that the investigation by the prosecutors in his office had “yielded serious criminal charges for which the defendant has not been held accountable
5
try again. they're new charges.
4
According to The Times article on the Trump family finances, it seems that the Trump Organization has engaged in the same kind of mortgage fraud Manafort has been indicted for.
10
I have an eerie feeling that in Ex-President Trump's last days in office, we will see a slew of pardons "?"
5
Now this all sounds like the appropriate use of the State's prosecutorial power -- yeah right?
One of these days Donald Trump will not be the President of the United States, but all of the means the left has employed to destroy him will have become part of our public process. What the left did to Robert Bork became a standard part of the playbook against conservative nominees, making the entire Senate confirmation process an embarrassing joke.
The NYT should be ashamed of itself for encouraging its State officials to use their offices to carry out personal and political vendettas.
11
@AR Clayboy: Donald Trump appears that he has been a crook for a very long time and has evaded prosecution. He will have a chance to defend himself if he is charged with a crime.
Robert Bork was in Nixon's Justice Department and was known mainly in his early career as the man who carried out Nixon's order to fire the special prosecutor after Richardson and Ruckelshaus refused to. Reagan nominated him to the Supreme Court. He was a prime advocate of "Originalism," and he had some rather extreme legal views. (A poll tax was just a little tax to him, for instance.) After his nomination was rejected by the Senate, Nixon nominated Anthony Kennedy, and he was confirmed 97 to 0 in the Senate.
Most "Originalists" believe that the Constitution should be interpreted based on what reasonable persons living at the time of its adoption would have understood the ordinary meaning of the text to be. Others assert that interpretation of the Constitution or should be consistent with what was meant by those who drafted and ratified it. Both positions freeze legal thinking in 1787.
11
Robert Bork believed in segregation. He was the third vote that sided with Nixon on the Saturday Night Massacre, the one who was next in line and said, yes, I will fire the Special Prosecutor. And there's strong evidence that he did so with a promise of an eventual appointment to the Supreme Court. Possibly they were uncouth in their verbiage, but the case to not raise Bork to the Court was pretty solid. Unlike Merrick Garland...
7
@Matthew OMG! Robert Bork!! Just goes to show how valuable a good background in history can be. Or, what goes around-comes around.
1
You NY lawyers are the last hope of bringing justice to this crawling slime ball. It is your chance to restore some dignity to our justice system after the ridiculously light sentences the Federal Judges, now a national joke, gave him. This man has a lot of blood on his hands. Show us that justice is not just for the poor and not wealthy. How can anyone trust the rule of law after this debacle. I certainly don't anymore. People, it is time to stand up and shout scream and kick for fair justice for ALL.
6
Lies may be pilled up, yet it's not very solid.
2
This is where we are: an openly corrupt President*
8
what would stop trump from issuing a pardon for state crimes and letting it play out in court..Manafort may spend his next twenty years being investigated as the state v fed presidential pardonswind out, and then he will be dead...why not? that is what trump is do ing in everything else - they wil l be drilling for oil off the atlantic coast, killing whales and exacerbating climate change, for decades, as it winds through court. Trump will pardon him for his federal AND his state crimes..mark my words..
3
@grace thorsen
Yes, and I worry about the effect it will have on the continental tectonic plates as well.
Those seismic waves will go around the world.
Talk about an addiction crisis! It doesn't even make sense to do something this drastic
1
Trump cannot pardon him for state crimes. Only the governor can.
1
Trump can only pardon federal crimes
1
I suspect trump will wait to see if New York convicts him. If they do, he won’t get his hands dirty. If they don’t convict, his pardon will come.
3
I hope NYS is able to charge each and every person associated with Trump who is found guilty of a federal charge. I don't trust Trump to NOT pardon any one of them so for NY to convict them is the only way justice can be served. If any other state can step up, all the better.
5
I am no fan of this man at all, but the article States this is to ensure that he'll spend time in jail in case Trump pardons him on the federal charges. Is that proper? If there are appropriate State charges they should live or die on their own merits, not as part of a plan to circumvent a presidential pardon. Supposed Trump is impeached or never pardons him? Then the man spends an extra 20 years of his life in jail for a political agenda?
Like I said, he's a criminal and deserves to go to jail. But this sounds more like a political prosecution.
7
@John I wonder if these state charges could yet slap Manafort awake to being a more honest, forthcoming rat and cooperate with state prosecutors to, even after a criminal Trump pardon, reduce how many more years--decades?--behind bars.
1
There is little question in my mind that Manafort will be pardoned by Trump. When? In 2020 after the election. If Trump loses he will issue pardons for all his fellow cons. Ditto if he wins. Either way there is no downside for the Donald.
3
Throw the book at him. He used every possible lever of class, privilege, connected friends and shady associates to defraud lots of people (if you count the citizens of the countries he hoodwinked) and suddenly shows remorse. He's not sorry he did it. He's sorry he got caught.
10
Folks, in a most basic way, it's double-jeopardy. You don't have to think Paul a good man or innocent, he's a very successful scoundrel. But Vance & Co. are out for glory, and Vance is out for a political career. And Paul is going to get run over for their glory. He's been through two trials already and, folks, it's by and large the same subject matter.
5
This guy has been commiting crimes for what? Decades? And the public only really became aware of him 3 or 4 years ago? This is the problem.
5
This is great and it backstops the Feds conviction nicely. BUT, my question remains. Was Vance paid off by Trump's lawyer to not indict Kushner and Ivanka for fraud by their misrepresenting and deceiving condo buyers of the Trump Soho? This was a big story in The New Yorker. If true he should now pursue them for their crimes.
7
Always remember Trump's classic comment about Manafort, his own onetime presidential campaign chairman (my paraphrase):
"I barely know dis guy!"
4
@Jim Steinberg In fact, he'll later remember that he doesn't know the guy at all.
I am often disappointed by reading of the politically motivated actions of corrupt American prosecutors . Rarely am I ashamed that I am an American because of them. Anyone defending what Mr Vance is doing just because it is Trump they are going after should consider what will happen if the Republicans respond in kind....
8
@Retired Vet And are you not 'ashamed to be an American' because of the actions and policies of the Trump administration? Don't worry-the Republicans will, and have 'responded in kind'- otherwise, President Hillary Clinton would be well on her way to addressing Climate Change, infrastructure, education, and health care.
Thank you for your service.
1
Does NY really have to pile it on a man who "has had an otherwise blameless life"?
If I decide to murder someone, I hope that I get Judge Ellis, because I actually have lived "an otherwise blameless life." And, unlike Manafort, my action would be over in a split second, after a bad decision on my part, not over a couple of decades as Manafort's criminal activity did.
PS: I have no plans to murder anybody.
8
Political prosecutions are unconstitutional and will be dismissed. That said I doubt Trump will pardon him anyhow so just some grandstanding for the base.
7
@Mkm
What makes this a political prosecution? I've seen nothing charging him with being a shady Republican operative.
5
I like to think of this as foreshadowing of similar indictments of Individual 1's children and son-in-law, and his when he's out of office.
21
This will become the BLUEPRINT to take down the Trump Crime Family.
13
@DeVon When the other side responds in kind what will you say then?
3
@Retired Vet
No problem. Just declare "an emergency" and shift the money around. Right?
1
Ah, states' rights!
6
"The best People"...yeah right
6
About time.
6
Mr President, Don. Jr., Eric, Ivanka, Jarad ; Hello, can you hear us?
New York State is waiting for you, with open arms.
12
@New World
Let's hope "You Can't Go Home Again" becomes the narrative of their lives in the future!
“No one is beyond the law in New York,” says Vance expect when they are...https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/14/opinion/cyrus-vance-campaign-donations.html
5
Hurray!!!!!
4
Way to go New York! Now just make sure you reserve a cell next to Manafort's for his partner in crime.
8
If Paul Manafort were the Democratic 2016 campaign manager for Hillary Clinton, would the New York District Attorney, Cyrus Vance Jr. do this? it's all dirty politics. The Democrats, who claim tolerance and mercy for all, want Manafort to die in prison. And that's too bad. The Democrats spew too much hate. Just too much hate.
12
@KJH - A Democratic candidate wouldn't tap someone as dirty as Manafort to be their campaign manager.
8
A good template for criminal charges against the trump crime family
You are not getting away with anything.
It’s about time
8
Yes, yes, yes! One way or another, this man, who has committed—and enjoyed the fruits of—his criminal behavior for decades may finally suffer a fraction of the penalties he deserves.
I have no sympathy for him and am not at all moved by testimony submitted by his erstwhile “friends” that he deserves leniency.
There are so many more individuals who have suffered far greater penalties for far less serious offenses. Our country will succeed or fail to demonstrate the integrity and fairness of our justice system by how it treats Manafort.
5
This guy needs to go to prison, and it looks like he's heading there, one way or another. Good.
5
Let's see - Club Fed or Attica?
2
His sidekick Gates said Manafort was working from "...a huge dumpster full of cash"; let's hope prosecutor's efforts generated enough heat for an all-consuming dumpster fire.
Would hate to seem him be paroled early only to start living the good life again.
2
This really could not be happening to a nicer guy. Go New York!
3
"He's a brave man" says the birther blowhard who threatens people during his rallies -- as long as he can behind at least a half-dozen bodyguards.
6
"on Wednesday, the president said, “I feel very badly for Paul Manafort,” and that he had “not thought about” a pardon for him."
Uh huh, sure! He (the president) has never given it a thought. The fact that ever other sentient being that has paid any attention to this entire investigation HAS given it a thought, including the president's support base, makes us all what? Clairvoyant? Or are we all just fools on the hill like so many frightened legislators? Frightened of losing cushy powerful positions vs. losing a democracy. If you watch as much of CNN and Fox News and MSNBC as we are told you do Mr. President how is it that pardoning Paul Manafort has never crossed your mind. Sorry, just a moronic question I guess.
5
Welcome to NYC Paulie….now duck!
2
Kangaroo court!
1
Will Manafort sing to avoid going to Sing Sing?
3
but it's ok to smoke pot, jump subway turnstiles, be drunk and urinate publically in NY with no fear of arrest or prosecution.
4
Cy Vance Jr. pursues Manafort's fraud crimes, but has never done a thing about the Trump family's tax fraud and housing scams.
Why?
4
Please, New York, if you're listening, I hope you can serve up something for Roger Stone.
14
"....an effort to ensure he will still face prison time if Mr. Trump pardons him for his federal crimes."
Is the New York Times aware, factually, that this is the motivation behind his state indictment, or are the authors making a conjecture, and stating it as fact?
While it is true that a state conviction will have that EFFECT, it is irresponsible and inflammatory to assert that Mr. Vance's motives are other than to uphold NY State law.
If the New York Times is going to make that assertion, the authors and editors should include IN THE ARTICLE their reasons for making that claim
7
@ImagineMoments Mr Vance should go to prison over this misuse of his office for politics. I am a Democrat who apparently care more for the law and ethics than the Manhattan Office of the District Attorney.
2
These are new charges for similar crimes that include fraud, tax evasion, laundering. When a serial killer is convicted of one murder, the other cases do not constitute double jeopardy if tried as separate crimes. I did not realize that NYT readers included so many that opine like attorneys.
2
Manafort is a convicted felon i.e. a bad guy who helped get Trump elected, is now the subject of a 16 count indictment for mortgage fraud.
This raises a few questions aside from the double jeopardy issue: Can Vance actually secure convictions in addition to today's headlines? Recall Spitzer and AIG that seemed to fizzle out without any trial? How about the initial Harvey Weinstein matter? or the Ivanka real estate issue? How many times did his office have to try the Etan Patz murder case, and that was with a confession?
Were these loans repaid or did he default? How many cases of fraudulent loan applications involving the housing bubble/subprime mortgages did his office prosecute?
This smells like a publicity stunt and a political trial wasting resources that can be best utilized going after Trump for a host of tax frauds.
5
Manafort is certainly a contestant for the ‘best ugly tie’ today.
Well, that's something, at least.
2
The Con Don thought running to be president of OUR United States of America would be a great marketing tool for he and his "brand".
The Russians found a less-than-brilliant, narcissistic, loud mouthed, morally/ethicallly bankrupt, insatiabley greedy mark to help them throw the election.
They will all lose. This corruption at all levels of OUR society - and the world - will not stand.
Not in OUR United States. Not in OUR world. Not now. Not ever again.
5
Don't forget.. Trump is OUR president!!
@DB Illegitimate. Trump is not my president.
1
Good luck. Crime pays in America. Crime pays in New York too.
2
Manafort got it very easy because he did not commit the two cardinal crimes (for which he would've gotten a much longer sentence):
1 - Being black
2 - Being poor
15
The country is rooting for NY to succeed in their charges against Manafort.
9
Let's not completely lose sight of the nature of Manafort's work in Ukraine for Viktor Yanukovych, who is now wanted by the Ukrainian government on charges of corruption, treason and murder.
Yanukovych is in hiding in Russia, protected by Putin.
Manafort got his $50 million as a result of Yanukovych stealing from Ukrainians, with Russian support.
The Ukrainians have plenty to charge Manafort with as a result of his thefts of Ukrainian government funds through Yanukovych, and after he is finished in the NY state courts, he should plan on facing extradition to Ukraine.
Let's take a hard look at a this 'consultant' to a criminal like Yanukovych - shouldn't Manafort eventually face the charges pending against him in Ukraine as well?
We will all be well-served to see his final incarceration someplace in Ukraine.
8
If New York successfully prosecutes Manafort despite double jeopardy laws, Trump will pardon Manafort for the federal cromes or commute his sentences to offset the New York sentence.
1
Absolutely no realization of the way that this works.
2
@William Case Not "double jeopardy" because different crimes.
3
@William Case I would like to see federal charges against Mr Vance and his team...
1
So what penalties do Manafort's New York crimes suggest?
1
The idea of indicticting/charging/arresting, trying, convicting. and incarcerating a former president is unthinkable.
Correction: "was"
6
“No one is beyond the law in New York,” said Vance, "unless they get someone to donate to my election campaign, like Jared and Ivanka had lawyer Marc Kasowitz do."
6
It would have been nicer if NY charged and convicted Manafort before the federal courts did as then there will be no chance of Trump pardon and no possible dispute with the double-jeopardy clauses. Now that he already got tried and convicted in the federal court, what are the cases against Manafort if he claims double-jeopardy? I really like to see this criminal and traitor, corrupt to his bone, spend not a single free day while he is alive, but I do not wish to see another disappointing sentence like in the two federal sentences.
7
Nice to see Cyrus Vance take action.
Now, if only he had taken action against Eric and Ivanka Trump when he had them on tape defrauding investors.
And if only he had taken action when he had Harvey Weinstein on tape sexually harassing someone.
As happy as I am to see Manafort accused of something that Trump can't pardon, it makes me wonder a bit whether the Manhattan D.A. only charges people when he knows their lawyers won't be able to make any campaign donations to him, as Trump's lawyers did.
8
@RVC
If only he....
If only he....
Accused doesn't mean convicted.
This is just show-boating and a terrible misuse of power by the D.A.....the Left complains about how our President "abuses" his power..but when it comes to them, sure, no problem...it's OK because we are Democrats
Bunch of hypocrites
2
Even a 7 year concurrent sentence would undermine Trump's pardon power, while not adding any time to Manafort's existing sentence.
It will be interesting, if it ever comes down to it, to find out if the State of NY has a duel sentencing policy of one set of guidelines for poor, and the middle class, and another for rich white guys of this country like the Feds seem to do. If Mr Manafort found the fed pens he's been locked up in cruel and harsh, I'm sure he'll find NY state facilities just a tad harsher. Lets hope so.
2
Some people will see this as a "witch hunt", others as the pursuit of justice. And one these groups is full if it.
1
@Chicago Guy If you remove the names of those being charged and their associates and the charge does not look like how others are charged it is easy to determine who is full of it. Mr Vance should be removed from office.
1
@Retired Vet
While your observation is correct, your conclusion is absurd.
1
New York should spend more time investigating in its own back yard. There would not be enough prison cells to handle all the convictions. If they looked.
5
No one is beyond the law in New York? What about the people who caused the financial crisis?
5
They were largely Obama donors, so no problem. Don' you understand how "justice" works?
If only to make sure that he serves a prison sentence and save society from a Liar’s pardon, go right ahead. He deserves every minute spent behind bars.
2
Paul Manafort continues to lie and push his 'spin' about his past actions. Still no remorse - other than that he was caught.
Glad to see a quick and serious dose of reality being given to this greedy thug. He can ponder the new charges while he is in jail awaiting The Donald's disposition - or not.
2
Good things happen to those who wait, wag to go, SDNY!
2
This let's the Trump family know that, in NYS at least, no one is too big to nail.
You can put him on the rack and tighten the thumbscrews but it won't change the facts that: 1) he worked for the Trump campaign for only a few months and 2) he knows absolutely nothing about collusion and there is nothing to suggest otherwise.
I guess the more politically motivated and malicious he is the better the Manhattan DA will do in his next election. Are ethics a concern anymore in the practice of a law or is scoring political points the only guiding principle?
5
@Peter Laslo Well, let's see because he supposedly provided voter data to the Russians, had the GOP platform revised....
5
I agree with these charges based on what I have read: let the courts sort it out. In the meantime I am appalled that his criminal life was exposed due only to his excessive hubris in joining Trump's operation. Had he used his nous and stayed under the radar he would probably never have been caught. One wonders how many more Manaforts there are out there, who have the common sense to keep their heads down.
3
I wonder if his lawyers will claim this is a case of double jeopardy...
And how the courts would react if he is pardoned for the original crimes by a co-conspirator? Still double jeopardy?
2
Trump or as I like to call him Mr. Crumbs believes he and his team are above the law. The sad part about all this is, he makes Nixon look like a baby compared to all the corruption going on. It takes a real New Yorker to find the loophole and go from the back door to get justice in the country. There's still hope in our legal system when a team of Lawyers from New York is on the case. Mr. Crumbs your next.
3
I wonder if restoring the rule of law might help scale back corruption in government.
I wonder how Mitch McConnell might feel about that.
4
Trump accidentally made a truthful statement!
Later on Wednesday, the president said, “I feel very badly for Paul Manafort,” and that he had “not thought about” a pardon for him.
We all know Trump is challenged with it comes to feeling. We just didn't' know that he was that self-aware.
1
"'No one is beyond the law in New York,' Vance said..."
Though it was hardly audible over the guffaws and outright boisterous laughter of Wall Street.
Regardless, go get him, State of New York!
2
“No one is beyond the law in New York”
Of course, this is not true. A lot of people are apparently beyond the law in New York. But I like that Manafort will likely not escape justice.
3
Tiny comment on Trumps language. He may indeed feel badly, given that peripheral neuropathies can bedevil the elderly. However, I think he meant to say "I feel bad for Mr Manaford".
1
This rather encourages white collar crime. If Trump wasn't being investigated would he have gotten away with it?
1
Manafort is no criminal genius and without the belief that powerful people for who he works will take care of him he probably would not have the courage to rob, cheat, or steal. So imprisoning him is not as important as getting those he serves out of positions of power.
2
These are improper grounds for bringing charges. If Trump pardons Manafort - that should not be any concern of this prosecutor. Justice is supposed to be blind. This is raw politics.
4
Meanwhile Justice Ginsberg with Justice Thomas is saying
these type of Fed and State Collisions on Citizens Must Stop.
In fact they have allowed a case to come to Court that
will say they can continue to Collude, or they must stop NOW.
1
I am noting all the comments predicting Trump and Co. will engage in politically motivated prosecutions and pardons unless NYS stands down. I’m pretty sure that Trump and Co. is already prosecuting and pardoning to the extent they could get away with. So NYS should follow the law without concern that it is giving Trump some sort of excuse to abuse his office. He never needed an excuse.
2
I wonder how much lower the national debt would be if the Trumps and Manaforts of the world had paid all the taxes they legally owed.
24
If the federal courts allow New York to prosecute Manafort despite double jeopardy laws, Trump will either pardon Manafort on the federal charges or commute his federal sentence to offset any sentence New York courts might impose.
1
@William Case - What is Trump's motivation to pardon him? Remember Trump likes guys who don't get caught.
Face it, another one of the crooks you revere so much is going down.
3
@DR
I don't revere Trump or Manafort. I did not vote for Trump and hope he does not run for reelection. If he does, I won't vote for him a second time.
The important thing is that he will serve time. How much time matters little. He’s a little fish, and the big one is still swimming.
17
Belt and braces approach by the federal and state authorities. Interesting to me is that the state charges relate to property financing. So, whilst the federal crimes could be dismissed by someone as a political witch hunt and a pardon issued, the state crimes are a more mundane fraud and more down to earth.
5
@Philip Lees More to the point, the president has no power to pardon someone convicted of state crimes.
1
@Mike L
The State of NY certainly can prosecute for State tax fraud regardless of Manafort’s conviction for evading Federal taxes.
The bank fraud charges would presumably be different from the federal charges in some way as well. If not, they’ll likely be dismissed.
5
@Chickpea
So that's an assessment of 2 out of 16.
He's going to jail.
And I hope Trump ends up sharing a cell with him.
1
So, first and foremost, if you don't want to go to jail, don't break the law....
That N Y State can and will prosecute is Manafort's problem, although I wonder if double jeapordy standards may apply in some cases. We'll see.
What bothers me about this, is the publicity and acceleration of the case.
It's not like the state prosecutors had nothing on their task list, after all.
So the sudden promotion to high priority after the federal sentencing tells us all something very important.
This prosecution is a cynical, and sinister, political stunt.
10
Doesn’t render it without basis, does it? As one accepts Judge Elliot’s sentence as within the Judge’s purview regardless of appearances, so should one accept NY’s prosecutors as within their purview, regardless of appearances.
10
@Objectivist The prosecutor explained that they had started their investigation and the grand jury issued indictments but they were forced to hold up their action because of the Federal prosecution. Now that is over, are you suggesting a "grace period" before they were to go ahead with the State prosecution? If so, how much time would satisfy you?
3
@Objectivist
"So the sudden promotion to high priority after the federal sentencing tells us all something very important. This prosecution is a cynical, and sinister, political stunt."
Nonsense. Manafort was the campaign chairman for the candidate who became president. His case is one of the most important in the country. Nobody is above the rule of law. That is a vital American tradition.
3
Skip the trial in New York. All of the evidence has been presented already in the other trials, and he is guilty of everything. Just lock him up immediately and save the good taxpayers of NY some of their hard-earned money.
6
@Harry
Methinks that something called "Constitution" might make the rhetoric moot.
1
@Harry
Not a big fan of due process, Harry?
1
@Harry Heck, why bother with trials for anybody? Just ask Harry for his informed decision and be done with it.
So he’s been charged with fraud for lying on mortgage applications. How do we know it isn’t more than that — for example Manafort could have been working with an individual at a lender to launder money from Russian or other entities under the guise of a mortgage loan. The lender on the Brooklyn house has ties to Trump. Trump and associates have also been involved in real estate deals and received loans that also could potentially have been vehicles for money laundering. Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but fraud could be just the easy to prove tip of the iceberg.
8
@Mopar Nobody said there couldn't be more. And nobody said he might not be charged with more. But it's a funny thing about legal justice-- it just proceeds one step at a time. Sometimes there really is more; sometimes there isn't. I for one appreciate the slower pace, allowing time for all the evidence to be presented.
2
The Brooklyn property in Brooklyn on Union St. is in Carroll Gardens, not Brooklyn Heights.
If you walk past it, its a very nice house. In the front window are boxes of belongings packed in haste but left behind, and on the front door is the fattest chain and padlock I’ve ever seen on a brownstone.
8
I think this is an inappropriate reason for prosecution.
4
The only basis for prosecution is breaking the law. Everything else is window dressing
2
Please include which law school you attended.
2
Isn’t that double jeopardy? How in the world can you convict someone twice for the same crime? What a waste of time and money. New York needs to stop being so political and wasting tax payer dollars while their at it. And I’m no Manafort fan, believe me. This is just sheer overreach for political purposes at the expense of the NY taxpayers. Who, by the way, are the highest taxed in the country. Why don’t they go after some real criminals like those pharmaceutical companies that are making billions by price gouging us on drugs?
3
@Mike L It's not double jeopardy - this is a whole new set of crimes. In the first federal court decision, Manafort was ordered to pay nearly $25M in restitution plus $50k in fines. I'd be happy to see my tax dollars go towards something with that kind of return on investment.
6
Don't you think the NYAG knows about double jeopardy? they probably have a list of crimes to pick from ha has not been indicted on yet.
2
Why not go after both? Manafort has enough property in his name, which can be seized if illegality is established, to fund this and a few other prosecutions.
Just because a prosecution can appear political, one cannot let criminals free from full consequences of crimes. Why then, every criminal will associate himself with politicians or run for office and cry witch hunt!
1
Just remember these immortal words to be carved on Rudy Giuliani's tombstone - "Truth isn't truth."
I myself remain blameless!! Ha!
14
The disappointment with the two last sentences is huge but it seems that there is some hope to see Manafort behind bars for longer.
This kind of people, defined by Donald Trump as a model of integrity, are the real cancer of our society.
18
the President will be impotent, once again. Manafort's NY crimes are the very same of the Trump family & organization. Trump and his "children" should be very nervous about this trial
15
Trump has been using his mob code to let Manafort know he will be getting a pardon. He will pardon Manafort, Stone and Flynn.
At least his pardon power won't reach into the State of NY.
16
Exactly
For Manafort and any and every member of the trump crime family
1
Why oh why do people continue associating themselves with Trump? Seems as though anyone close to him ends up in prison.
12
A fine use of my NYS tax dollars!
12
@Sparky I totally agree with you Sparky. It is a fine use of New York State tax dollars.
I hope Manafort will stand trial and be convicted in New York because his life has been a cesspool of working for foreign dictators, evading paying his taxes, lying to investigators and who knows what he was doing as the "I'll work for free" Trump campaign manager of the Trump campaign.
It shows you how cheap Trump is that he picked Manafort to run the campaign - because he didn't have to pay him anything - unconcerned about Manafort's horrendous work for foreign oligarchs and dictators. Only Donald Trump would have thought that wasn't a problem.
I hope Manafort is convicted in New York so Trump can't pardon him out of this. The PR firm Manafort and Roger Stone ran for years in Alexandria VA was a filthy business.
Hopefully, Manafort and Stone will wind up in the same prison in N. Virginia. Neither has any allegiance to the United States of America even as they messed around in the highest reaches of the Trump campaign and administration.
9
Trump and his family will also be charged for similar crimes in New York State.
17
Justice is when the long arm of New York State law keeps Manafort out of reach of Trump's pardon power....
14
With Cyrus Vance, its OK to not pay for the subway if you jump turnstiles, smoke weed, public urination and drunkenness, etc.
But somehow, Paul Manfort is declared Public Enemy #1 in Manhattan.
I am glad the Manhattan DA has his priorities straight to keep the streets of Manhattan safe ???
8
@Edward V - Are you really comparing jumping a turnstile with massive fraud?
2
@Edward V
And I bet your glad there’s fox where you can get all the no news from!
1
Grow up
Conflating apples and figs
1
Now, if the SDNY charges Donald Trump and the little Trumpettes for all their felonies they can then pat themselves on the back. Until then an even bigger criminal is still on the loose and committing crimes daily.
8
So after Trump pardons him for Federal crimes, he will run for governor of New York, so he can then pardon him for state crimes. NOT!!!!
1
Re: “No one is beyond the law in New York,” he said, adding that the investigation by the prosecutors in his office had “yielded serious criminal charges for which the defendant has not been held accountable.”
I'm only, surprised Trump HASN'T given B. Madoff a pardon / followed by interview, 'N, hiring offer...to replace Wilbur 'sleepy_head' Ross, L.O.L.!!
1
Manafort is corrupt to the core and will probably not serve any time for his numerous crimes. Trump will pardon the federal crimes and it will take forever to take him to trial on NYC crimes. He will be out of his wheelchair, dyeing his hair and eyebrows red, back in the snakeskin jacket, and getting a hero's welcome in Ukraine in no time.
3
Double jeopardy and stupidity. Remember that zero charges were for anything related to collusion which is not against the law anyway.
Just another example of our unconstitutional and oppressive government.
5
collusion with a foreign power in an election IS a crime.
1
@yaba
Yup. Both judges cleared Manafort and RICO Don of collusion with the Rosenbergs and Auric Goldfinger as well.
Of course conspiring with Russia to corrupt and influence an American election is against the law.
Just another example of criminal activity by the Trump Crime Family.
Stop watching Fox News and read about the
different charges in the two separate trials.
The Manafort lawyers mislead the public
by chanting the Trump mantra of no collusion,
Twice!
1
New York State had better be quick, because when Trump pardons Manafort, Manafort will be gone.
4
@rpache Trump wasn't going to pardon Manaford before the election next year anyway, but the day after the election he would have pardoned everyone involved in his Crime Mob.
This is a corrupt act done only for political reasons. It is a disgrace the way our law enforcement and judicial system has been abused by Democrats because they lost the election. This is something one would expect from some third world banana republic. The liberals are cheering loudly, though. That is what liberalism has become.
10
@Tim Fitzgerald Giving your children jobs in the government in which they have zero experience and even less ability is the epitome of the term, "Banana Republic". Using the office to enrich himself also defines trump as the bananas head banana of our own banana republic. Project much?
2
Does he get to take his own Clothing ? Surely, he can't be expected to wear the common garb. LOL.
7
@Phyliss Dalmatian
I would think not. Maybe just his ostrich jacket !
I wonder if he’ll be able to use his hair dye in the slammer.
Nah, he's led such a blameless life, it's all a which-crook-to- hunt hoax.
The way things are going maybe he'll get 4.5 minutes in a really nice room with his ostrich jacket in his very own closet and a cashmere jumpsuit.
4
Proud of my State and sad for the country. To circumvent a president who has pardoning power we have to do all of this? States have to step in because the Federal System has a tough time holding The Wealthy and Well Connected to the same standard as they do the people who have less. Very sad!Is it any wonder why The Wealthy think their undeserving kids should get into Elite Schools?
14
Let’s not fool ourselves here with the fake outrage. If “Jamal Dante Jenkins” had stood before any judge, accused of far fewer crimes (in both cases), he sure as heck wouldn’t have a collective 7.5 years to reflect on his so-called misdeed. Jamal Dante Jenkins would have gotten the maximum twenty-four years, in case #1, and the maximum ten years, in case #2, for that grand & maximum total of
thirty-four years.
And then, when Jamal Dante Jenkins had served his thirty-four years, he would have been on probation for the next ten years. And the slightest screw-up during those ten years of probation would have resulted in him returning to his home of the past thirty-four years, never to see a ray of free sunshine again in his natural lifetime.
Paul J. Manafort’s collective sentence is absolutely, definitely and without a doubt a result of WMP.
(That’s: White Male Privilege, for those in the un-know.)
24
Thank-you Manhattan district attorney in your efforts to see that this crook will face prison time even when and if he gets pardoned by Mr. Trump. I was stunned this morning regarding another light sentence for Paul Manafort. There is something at issue here with the broad 'power of the pardon'.
19
@Jackie He won't get pardoned and he won't give any evidence of collusion or crimes related to the Trump campaign. Bill Clinton, by the way pardoned Susan McDougal, despite the fact that she could have implicated him in real crimes and she went to jail for refusing to testify as to whether Clinton actually committed them.
2
Until more details of the actions which lead to this indictment become known, I will not make a final judgment on them. If they are for the same actions that led to the Federal convictions, then this looks like a case of double jeopardy to me. If they are due to different actions, then let them proceed.
@mikecody actualy the corrupt stae of NY recently passed a law allowing for NYS to pursue the same charges pursued at the fedral level. If there are the same charges, NYS's new law needs to be challenged on constitutional grounds. This new law should be called the "Let's Indict Friends of Trump" law.
1
@mikecody "then let them proceed"? I"m glad you agree with them. However, I'm pretty sure your approval was neither sought nor required.
1
Lies, games, schemes, justifications, rationalizations abound. It's disgusting. Manafort is a HEINOUS LIAR who has conned, defrauded, and gamed the system for much of his adult life, living as an entitled glutton. He has ZERO morals. Does anyone value the truth anymore or are we all about money, manipulation, politics, whataboutism, and but, but, but....? I hope he spends the remaining days of his life as a convicted criminal, behind the bars of prison and I don't give a rat's bum if it's federal or state. Actions should have consequences. He made his choices and it's time he paid the price.
21
Couldn't happen to a nicer guy...
26
Thank you New York.
14
@DKS
You’re most welcome.
Our pleasure!
1
"Paul J. Manafort... the Manhattan district attorney, Cyrus R. Vance, Jr., said Wednesday, an effort to ensure he will still face prison time if Mr. Trump pardons him for his federal crimes."
That's a very poorly written sentence leading to confusion and misportraying Vance's comments today. The sentence mixes fact--what Vance said--with conjecture--comments made previously by others about the motive for (then merely potential) NY changes.
It suggests Vance said today "an effort to ensure he will still face prison time if Mr. Trump pardons him for his federal crimes" when he didn't. That latter phrase should be its own sentence, qualified by explaining from where that comment originated. The article uses a hyperlink to a prior article where that claim about "an effort to ensure..." was made.
A hyperlink isn't good enough; we readers shouldn't have to read a prior article to know the context and origin of that extremely significant comment. A new sentence explaining that point and suggesting the hyperlinked article to read more about that issue for those interested would be better.
I'm very displeased by the increased use of hyperlinks--in the Times and elsewhere--to other articles as a means of composition rather than writing and explaining the point, thesis, idea, or fact at issue in the immediate text.
I assume the use of hyperlinks is a means to get more “clicks” and increase volume, but it shouldn’t be done at the expense of clear exposition and good composition.
7
@AnotherCitizen No, it doesn't suggest that. The indictments Manafort has been charged with are before the 'Cyrus R. Vance Jr., said Wednesday'. The fact that it's an 'effort to ensure he will still face prison even if Mr. Trump pardons him for his federal crimes' isn't conjecture - it's sourced reporting according to several people with knowledge of the matter, most likely people inside the DA's office. The hyperlinked article is a comment on Cyrus Vance's motives.
And by the way, the internet was designed with hyperlinks in mind (HyperText Transfer Protocol is the most fundamental language of the web, the language of how to handle hyperlinks and text). The NY Times are using hyperlinks exactly as they were intended; if you can't be bothered to click, that's on you.
1
@Alex My claim that it "suggests that..." is based on the confusion demonstrated in comments here from some posters who think Vance said that and my own need to carefully parse the sentence to get the correct meaning. If people think the sentence means that, that shows poor writing. You can't explain away a lack of clarity by sentence structure, the lack of clarity speaks for itself: If readers are confused, they're confused.
On conjecture: The distinction I’m drawing is between reporting facts of what Vance said today and what unnamed others said at another time about his thoughts--distinct kinds of truth-claims. Whether what they said is certainly true of Vance's thinking/motive is unknown and unknowable by we readers.
The NYT is using hyperlinks "exactly as they were intended." I'm not addressing why hyperlinks were invented; I'm addressing their good use and that’s debatable. Hyperlinks are great for many things, but they shouldn't be used as a substitute for writing and directly conveying critical, relevant information in an immediate text, in my opinion.
If you don’t mind being manipulated so media can inflate its readership numbers in order to charge higher ad rates, that's your business. I don't like it--and I'm already paying to be here in the first place.
2
I want to wake up where the law is not asleep/ to find this horrible creep/ at the bottom of the heap/ just send him to jail/ don't concern yourself with bail/ it's up to you New York, New York. With apologies to the late Larry Eisenberg
18
This is what fascism looks like, using government to destroy your enemies. This is political persecution at its worse. Meanwhile the Podesta brothers, who worked with Manafort, get off scott free. A revolution is coming and it won't be pretty.
6
@Jon Galt - Manafort broke the law, multiple times. I'm not sure how you missed that.
2
Finally, some good news.
16
Funny that Trump is unwittingly (how else?) draining the swamp and exposing its creatures after all.
12
Glad to know he can’t be absolved of his crimes by 45.
14
Hm. Is this a warmup for an indictment of the Donald?
9
@Barney Rubble
Yup.
Thank you, New York!!!!
17
@Aiden Riot, truth and justice honored in NY.
1
I believe Mr. Manafort gave up this country for one of the seven deadly sins—greed. He deserves the worst possible sentence— either life without parole or death by firing squad. That’s what should happen when citizens commit treason. I don’t even buy his faked illnesses.
14
Let's hope Trump pardons him on Federal charges so he can go to NY State prison instead. No tennis courts for you, buddy!!
19
Let's go through all of President Clinton & President Obama's pardons.
What's right is right-
4
I am still in total disbelief! How did Trump become President! My worst nightmares were better.
8
@SridharC, he’s just showing us how bad things can become when lawmakers don’t listen to voters and don’t do their jobs, prompting these voters to vote for the first guy who promises them MAGA! For these voters America didn’t deliver the greatness they wanted, they were neglected, ignored for too long. Hopefully now put lawmakers will actually listen to their pain and fix the system which is rigged in favor of the rich Uber wealthy guys and corporations.
1
Hillary was his opponent!
1
“No one is beyond the law in New York,” he said, adding that the investigation by the prosecutors in his office had “yielded serious criminal charges for which the defendant has not been held accountable.”
___
In line with Mr. Vance's comment, keeping this apolitical, if/when Manafort is convicted, use al the tools necessary to maximize the punishing guidelines under the law.
6
There sure seems to be a lit of New York Times readers that are more or less cheering Managor6 going to the joint. All because of his association with Trump. I read a lot of the gripes about privatized prisons and unfair sentencing of black defendants, but I almost get the feeling of glee from you guys that a white man associated with Trump is going to the joint.
2
@BorisRoberts I always get gleeful when a deserving criminal is sent behind bars. No matter what colour their skin is. *Shrugs*
5
@BorisRoberts He broke the law. Just a few years ago people were going to jail for years just for having a joint on them. The glee comes from seeing a power broker finally getting his due.
2
Time for Paul to “do the right thing” and maybe have some life left not behind bars.
2
Trump calls him "a brave man ". The rest of us call him a liar and fraud. Let's see how brave he is in prison.
21
Best news of the day! Thanks to all the state AGs who will not let these crooks get away scott free.
12
Hoping New York will be successful in removing the stench that guys like Manafort and the Trump family have dumped everywhere they’ve gone.
Manafort acts like an old time mob boss except he was in Eastern Europe working for real creeps. No one wanted him here so he had to work for thugs that answer to Putin. Odd how the only people that wanted Manafort’s brand of gangster back in the US was the Trump family.
8
Mr. Vance has some making up to do if he wants to keep his job.
3
@Texpatriate Yep, he had 6 years to get Trump indicted -- instead, Vance ignored Trump's crimes and allowed him to be Potus.
3
This is wonderful. He will end up in prison SOMEWHERE.
6
So where is the indictment of Trump?
5
Once he is pardoned, what's to keep him from absconding to Ukraine?
2
@Bette The Fret
Maybe they hang on to his passport?
3
Consider this a calling card intended for the grifter currently occupying the White House and those who aid and abet him. The Sovereign District of New York has other plans.
7
Wow, this is really going to crowd out his "otherwise blameless life".
23
I am disgusted, but not surprised, by Manafort's lawyers lying into microphones in regards to collusion. This is a blatant and egregious insult to the people of this country who are being held hostage by a gang of thieves and traitors. With any luck, we will learn that he will be exposed by Mueller with charges waiting for him after he is impeached. If we have to wait for DT to get out of office with an election, I am very much looking forward to him in a NYS court with his comb-over destroyed by the lack of hair products and the swanky orange suit to match his hair. His kids will look very smart in their orange jumpers too! I will be cheering for his business to be destroyed, his ill gained wealth to be taken and used by the government for the good of the people in reparations for his crimes. I want his freedom to be taken and his jail cell in Attica to be his new domain. I can only hope he doesn't kill too many people while tearing apart of our Democracy. We must vote for and demand integrity, fairness and transparency from our elected officials above all else in our elections moving forward. We cannot survive in a society based on lies and greed. Our Republic and the Constitution that is the cornerstone of it's structure, must be honored and protected. If not, we will lose our freedom and we will no longer be the greatest country in the world.
14
The Manhattan AG will see to it that Manafort will pay dearly for his crimes against American taxpayers. Like the president, Manafort feels that he is above the law and that he can get a pass for his numerous bank fraud offenses and money laundering.
Pardoning Manafort will be a waste of time for the president. Being "a brave man" will not save Manafort from going to prison.
13
My son has done more time than gout-boy for stealing c.d.'s & resisting arrest.
18
The fact that the actual, proper charges couldn't be brought at the federal level, including the most serious crime of all, treason, just goes to show how off track we are when it comes to governance, justice, and parity.
The fact that we have to resort to contortions to bring one man to justice, only to turn around and bring him to justice again in order to ensure the sentencing sticks is one big reason why we need a constitutional reboot and a jurisprudence system that only includes judges who are civil servants. 7.5 years added by Judge Amy Berman-Jackson are not all consecutive. This is a sick joke.
This joke will be even sicker when the time comes to see to it that Trump himself is judged.
We are a broken society in which those who are innocent pay the heaviest price.
---
Things Trump Did While You Weren’t Looking [2019]
https://wp.me/p2KJ3H-3h2
10
Just asking if the left finally happy with this news?. Let's not talk about Syria, Yemen, Libya, Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan. Looks like the left led by Mueller and his famous gang of Democratic connected lawyers have found their justification for spending millions of dollars. Hope Mueller is happy now.
2
@Larry
Hey, isn't all this other stuff ( Yemen, Syria ect.) you mentioned the President's job, that is when he can tear himself away from his national emergency?
7
@Larry trump for prison 2020. lock um up.
Most which you speak of is a direct result from our previous republican president w.
Very, very, very happy.
1
@Larry Mueller is neither happy nor sad. Mueller is doing his job. I"m guessing you heard something on AM radio today. SAD.
2
Manafort might want to weigh his only option: Singing like a Bird and Giving Trump Up to the Authorities. Trump can't save him, so he'll have to save himself. So, far Manafort hasn't been interested in coming clean.
5
A lifetime of crime should mean a lifetime of time.
20
Good. Even if he doesn't get a corrupt pardon from the crime boss he will stay in jail until he dies. His absurdly light federal sentence is a spit in the face to justice, but adding on another half dozen or so years in state prison after he is done should make it more just.
8
I appreciate our federal system- federal and state sovereigns. I hope to see the 16 charges that will be laid against him and no one in New York will pardon him. I wonder if Manafort will begin to "sing" knowing that he will have hard prison time in New York State!
5
And why haven't other financial malfeasors been charged? Is New York really that interested in protecting the public or simply flexing not so democratic muscle?
1
@James Neal He committed crimes and therefore is being prosecuted. Not much more to say.
6
@James Neal
How do you know that other financial malfeasors haven't been charged? This is a highly publicized case--that doesn't mean there aren't other cases which don't have much notoriety.
1
Trump's admin is the most wildly criminal in the history of hour republic. These are extraordinary times, and both the rule of law and the truth itself are under sustained assault.
Staying within the letter of the law, I hope that the full weight of NYS law can be brought to bear in the fight against the criminal cabal in the WH.
Trump's supporters and apologists crying crocodile tears while an unreoentant and hostile Manafort got about 25% of the linen sentence while poor and black or brown folk regularly get 100% of the maximum.
Justice would be seeing Manafort sentence to 30 years, but we clearly do not live in a just country.
7
Karma and Lady Justice move on their own time table! Manafort's been breaking the law for decades and now he needs to pay. He better hope that Trump doesn't pardon him. Spending the rest of his life in what will probably be a cushy Club Fed would be a lot better then a NY State Penal Institution! I do LOVE NY!
7
Hopefully, when and if he is convicted in NY, he will get more than the pittance he was given these past two weeks for federal crimes.
7
This sends a healthy signal to Mr. Trump and members of his family: You can pardon, but you can't hide.
12
“No one is beyond the law in New York.” Except the NY state legislature. Maybe Vance should start looking around in Albany. All the corruption is there to see.
3
Cy Vance, Jr. could have prevented this whole administration if he'd investigated the Trump organization, rather than looking away...and accepting contributions from them.
Too little, too late...but it's good that Manafort continues to be under scrutiny for his crimes.
8
@Kathleen Warnock Yes, good point. Vance may have been able to spare the nation -- he's been the New York County District Attorney since 2010. Civil suits against Trump, whether a win, lose, or draw, have all failed to rein him in.
6
@LSW
He could have done even more good if he had charged Harvey Weinstein when he had the opportunity.
He had a chance to nail not only Trump, but Ivanka and Don Jr.
Had he done both, Trump would not be president and fewer women would have been harmed.
Thank you New York!
Trump has also spoken often about how the government has treated individuals "unfairly" to justify his pardons, clearly laying the groundwork for Manifort and others who he says are not "rats."
Our federal justice system may be in shambles, thanks to Trump and the GOP, but thank goodness for New York.
7
NY was holding these charges over Manafort so that the president wouldn't pardon him.
Seeing as NY has played its hand, the president should just pardon him for the federal crimes now.
The states can charge him and he can start serving those sentences.
Why wait till he's done federal time if the states are going to charge him?
1
@don "wouldn't pardon him" -- no. It's Trump can't pardon. "Holding" has nothing to do with it.
FYI: Indicted, to trial, convicted, then sentenced -- all within the statue of limitations, timewise. The states aren't waiting to charge him, or did you mean "why not wait". Either way, Manafort's time has come, and he'll still be in prison even with a federal pardon from Trump. After the way Manafort has acted in the past, no judge is going to let him out on bail.
1
Does it really makes sense for NY to be hostel to this President, clearly he's not going to help New York in any way, no tunnel funding, Federal projects, SALT changes, etc.. so winning the battle doesn't mean New York will win the war. Politicians are only hurting the citizens of New York, they're the one being hurt by this hatred between liberals and the President.
1
@Tino NY is not being hostile (please check your spelling) to Trump.
They are enforcing the law, which Trump doesn't think should place a limit on his behaviors, but it does.
3
@Tino
So we are supposed to allow Trump to continue breaking the law?
Many states have gone their own way, evoking states rights, to get around Trump's dreadful policies. California has their own immigration and environmental policy.
Montana has defied Trump on net neutrality. Other states are circumventing Trump's policies when they are harmful to local interests.
Besides, punishing Manafort is not the problem. The problem is the the right's hatred of people, especially in blue states. They create the policies.
3
@yogi-one
Agreed. The state has an obligation to enforce its laws. New York isn't hostile to Trump. Trump is hostile to the state. But that is neither here nor there. You can't kowtow in the hope of favors from someone who is already punishing you for not "loving" him.
New York will survive and thrive and I predict Trump will never return here. -- thegamesmenplay.com
Interestingly they joked about if Obama keeps making new appointments the federal deficit will be paid off because so many of his appointees paid their taxes and back taxes just before their vetting investigations. None of these Obama appointees were ever prosecuted for tax evasion like Manafort. Dinesh D'Souza was the only person in the United States who served jail time for the same crime of donating campaign money through a third party. It was because he made a movie critical of Obama. All of you democratic hypocrites who think there is plenty to convict Trump on after the presidency there is more to convict Hillary on and she has never been indicted. There is a two-tiered justice system and manafort was pursued not because of Russian collusion which was the purpose of Mueller's investigation and found nothing after 2 years he was pursued because he would not roll over on Trump. If you think that is Justice and okay well what comes around goes around there are going to be a lot of Democrats locked up and rightfully so.
1
@R Rosen
Please, there is no way anyone Republican or Democrat, has done as much wrong as Donald Trump. The list of his crimes is mind boggling, and that is only the ones we know of.
The truth is Donald Trump is an unconvicted criminal. He had bragged about it often. Those who refuse to accept this are in denial.
3
The posters who support Manafort have lost track of several facts: 1) Manafort appears to have corrupted a presidential election; 2) Manafort has not led a blameless life, he has consulted with/to/for dictators; 3) Manafort, whilst under arrest, lied on his bail bond form; 4) Manafort, whilst under arrest, tried to suborn perjury and engaged in witness tampering.
Given the weight of the foregoing, had he been charged with treason and queued up for the chopping block, I'd be OK with that, especially given the tampering with the Presidential election.
As to the people below impersonating attorneys by trying to deconstruct what is and what is not double jeopardy, ask yourself this: "Is it at all possible that the most talented attorneys in the country have heard of double jeopardy and were also smart enough to take cognizance of that precept whilst they were crafting the charges to be brought?".
The folks/attorneys of the "Sovereign" district know how to lay a charge that can be successfully prosecuted. If Mr. Manafort thinks otherwise he and his legal team are in for a rude surprise.
11
@R.Will Exactly. Organizations like Mueller's team, the FBI, and SDNY take a long time and move very methodically while building their cases. People who want quicker, sloppier justice get impatient, but they should cool their jets.
When these organizations finally bring charges, they usually have a pretty airtight case.
This is what scares the former (and current) Trump waterboys.
They are indeed all lawyers themselves with knowledge of how these things go.
And they know the Mueller, the FBI, or the SDNY teams are not going to leave them much wriggle room.
That's why so many of them realize it's in their better interest to co-operate with the investigations, regardless of Trump's ability to issue pardons.
Speaking of which, it's very likely that Trump will discover that his pardoning power is not the get-out-of-jail-free card that he thinks it is, especially if it's recognized that he is using the power to pardon unethically, for political purposes, or for personal benefit.
1
The Billionaire Boys Club with D J Trump as lead conspirator is getting hacked up a bit. The scope of the crimes and the expectations that they would not be discovered or prosecuted is a testimony to just how untouchable these wealthy, privileged scoundrels thought themselves to be. I await the day when DJT is hauled into court along with his family and criminally prosecuted. While we are focused on this parade of malfeasance, unfortunately, DJT and his appointed goons are still doing their damage to alliances, institutions, the environment, and people in need. Pelosi should forget about whether the Republicans will or won't support impeachment. The facts are already there to justify impeachment. And it is high time prosecutors bring criminal charges against this sitting President despite the DOJ memo to the contrary.
7
Another reason why "I Love NY" A message to Trump of what's in store for him the moment he leaves office.
3
This is what 45 can look forward to providing he survives losing the '20 election.
3
@Petra Lynn Hofmann This is another whole discussion, but my feeling is that even if Trump loses in 2020, he won't fade quietly into the background. My bet is that he'll gather up all his media friends and go start a TV network so he can continue to blast off everyday on national TV. He has built an audience and a brand already, and his loyal 30% aren't going to care even if he's convicted of crimes and does jail time. In fact, if political history is any guide, doing time in prison often boosts a would-be dictator's popularity. Devotees would see jail time as proof that the establishment is out to squash him, thereby enhancing his appeal as their rebel hero.
1
This thorough airing of right-wing Republican dirty laundry - of which Paul Manafort is just one piece of - deserves a full airing to the American people.
America is corrupt, and while it will never be a perfect country, the indictment, conviction and incarceration of some of the nation's 0.1% white collar criminals will send a message that crime pays with prison time.
See you in jail, Manafort.
And we hope to see many others of your wretched white-collar criminal ilk in prison with you, including Individual #1 and his family-operated criminal syndicate.
12
Let's hope this does provide a pardon-proof way to ensure justice is served by a man who seems to be able to get away with a lot.
I love the fact it also thwarts Trump. This American is sick and tired of seeing him and his cronies thumb their noses at the law.
7
These are just charges, but there goes the "otherwise blameless life" justification for a short Federal sentence.
6
Checkmate!
7
Is this what they mean when they say throw the book at him? Trumpy must be getting queasy waiting for the next shoe to drop. On him.
4
In other news... since some comments brought up concerns about double jeopardy:
NY State legislature moves to close the double jeopardy loophole that prevents the State from prosecuting someone for the same Federal crime for which they were convicted and given a Presidential pardon.
https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2019/03/12/ny-lawmakers-expected-to-pass-bill-closing-double-jeopardy-loophole/?slreturn=20190213131158
These NYS charges carry a penalty of up to 25 years if convicted. Looks like he will be spending the rest of his life behind bars and Trump cannot pardon him.
If Manafort had any brains, he'd start singing.
5
Manafort was charged with several crimes; however much Trump can pardon anybody he wishes, don't you think there is a strong conflict of interest by the latter in supporting those crimes...by the pardon? This all is mafia-like, and ought to have consequences...unless we think that the current vulgar bully in-chief has impunity and immunity to do as he pleases...at our expense.
6
Go get 'em Cy!
Put this cretin behind bars for the rest of his days.
8
President Trump can keep downplaying Manafort's role in his election - as he has repeatedly has.
"He was replaced long before the election. You know that, right? He was replaced long before the election. When all of this stuff started coming out, it came out during the election. But Paul Manafort, who’s a good man also, by the way -- Paul Manafort was replaced long before the election took place. He was only there for a short period of time," Trump said.
But the truth is Manafort ran Trump's campaign at the most critical juncture - when Trump was securing the nomination right before and at the Republican National Convention. Without Manafort, Trump may not have gotten the nomination.
As Benjamin Franklin stated in Poor Richard's Almanac, "If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas."
You can also tell a lot about a man by the company he keeps.
Trump has a heck of a lot of fleas - and they're growing with each indictment and conviction of those associated with him, his campaign and administration.
And there will be more to come.
273
@Eugene Gorrin If you want to get to the real truth with Donald, just look where he repeats the same thing over and over, and over again.
27
Those who believe that Manafort will finally face justice in state courts should perhaps think again.
What is missing from these articles is any reference to Gamble v US*, a case heard by the Supreme Court last December. Should the Supreme Court overrule the decision of the lower court, this may gut a number of the state charges against Manafort and the rest of the Trump crime family. The effect of a reversal may mean that Manafort, et al will never have to face trial for state charges.
Should the Court so rule (and I think this is a given, with Gorsuch and Kavanaugh now toadying to Trump), then all we may hope for is that some state criminal charges do not come within the ambit of Gamble.
It should be noted that Orrin Hatch and several right wing organizations (such as the Rutherford Institute) have submitted amicus briefs in Gamble, urging the Court for a reversal. Clearly, they have the protection of Trump as their motivation here.
More importantly, should Gamble be reversed, then Manafort, Trump and the Republican Party will know that they are above the law. There will be virtually no constraints on their criminal wrongdoing.
The Gamble opinion will, if nothing else, tell us one way or the other which side this Supreme Court is on. And I wouldn't bet the rent that it is on the side of justice.
*See https://www.scotusblog.com/case-files/cases/gamble-v-united-states/
for a good summary of the Gamble litigation
4
@Nicholas Rush when the day comes that the Supreme Court is a “ Get out of jail free” card for Republican criminals, the USA is dead in the water.
1
As I retired federal prosecuting attorney, I applaud the indictments secured by Mr. Vance. I would only add that th this new development, anyone who remains in Trump's orbit should be very, very worried.
8
What a sham. If only Cyrus would walk down Wall Street he could have charged those more deserving of prison time and punishment for wrecking our economy and perpetuating disparity in our country.
6
I have no doubt that Manafort's a slimy character, but this latest prosecutorial move "an effort to ensure he will still face prison time if Mr. Trump pardons him for his federal crimes" is clearly more about Trump than Manafort, which makes the whole thing stink of political pettiness. Note that so far, at the Federal level, the sentences handed down have been decidedly shorter than what the prosecutors wanted.
7
@ODIrony It seems you're okay with a Trump pardon, but the state prosecuting him for his other crimes is petty and political.
4
@ODIrony I don't think so. Mueller could get to Trump via Manafort; New York can't. I think it's about disgust that such a slimeball could be freed.
@ODIrony
"which makes the whole thing stink of political pettiness."
Cheating on state taxes results in a crime which is different than cheating on Federal taxes given that both are sovereign entities in that sphere. Likewise, fraud committed in NY is not the same as fraud committed outside of NY. This is not pettiness, this is the law.
As to the brevity of the sentences, I think the length turned more on Manafort selling his poor health as a feature for mercy than any link to your theorized but unobserved and untestable concept of pettiness.
The SDNY better demand that Paul Manafort surrender his passport if he’s released from federal custody.
13
@Red Sox, ‘04, ‘07, ‘13, ‘18
He is afraid of Russians as he owns one of the oligarchs large sums of money.
3
Time to play. . .DOUBLE JEOPARDY!
3
@Publius
Riddle me this:
In which of the federal cases was Comrade Manafort charged with bank fraud in connection to the property on Howard Street in Soho?
1
Manafort must be immediately jailed in Ndw York for life. Obviously the federal prosecutors were under the sway of trump’s so-called Justice Department. His vacation at Club Fed must end.
8
The rule of law is paramount and justice is being served.
8
This may implicate the GAMBLE case, currently in front of SCOTUS.
Manafort will never get out of prison alive. No pardon from Trump now. Better flip (for real) quickly. Throw yourself on the mercy of the courts. It could help. Trump, his children, Jared, and many of the rest of his accomplices face indictment in the state of New York (and other states). Trump will resign from office and go to prison in exchange for not indicting his children. If he doesn't, his children and Jared will flip on him. No honor among thieves.
6
I think Manafort fears his Russian handlers more than prison.
1
@SBHope your version could come to fruition.This is all part of the Swamp.Exposing the differences in law and the politics involved.Hopefully the Trumps have The Same fate,would restore some faith.
Thank you New York. You made my day.
19
So it's a crime for a foreign nation to influence an election in the US through Facebook, if a politician colluded with that foreign nation. This is so grade school stuff, considering US policy to assassinate democratically elected presidents of other nations if we didn't like them. Iran and Chile, to name a few.
2
@Marty Rowland, Ph.D., P.E.
Yes,, it is a felony for a foreign government to hack into DNC emails AND commit a conspiracy with other actors to influence an American election.
It is also quite illegal to launder foreign (Russian organized oligarch) money which the Trump Organization has been doing for years.
Then there are all the violations of the emoluments clause. Shame on 44% of Americans to roll over for this level of criminality and corruption. All in the name of racism and their 18th century patriarchal control over women's bodies.
"Lock him up! Lock em up! Lock em all up!"
Time to return to a nation founded on the rule of law.
And yes, we have an ugly history. And present: keep an eye on Venezuela, and of course, Iran, with the help of our "ally" Saudi Arabia.
1
Knowing from previous history that DC’s spotlights would soon be cast in their directions I would have thought the morning after Trump’s election that an item on the agenda of all close Trump associates would have been to immediately initiate efforts to make good with local and federal authorities. The objective would be arrive at some kind of agreement to quietly pay back taxes, arrive at any other restitutions, plea deals to misdemeanors and avoid criminal incitement of felonies. One might even have supposed a quiet pre-inaugural effort within the transition team to organize a sanitation effort. Arrogance or stupidity it would appear got the better of them.
1
Congress needs to pass legislation altering who can be pardoned. Anyone connected to the president's (any president) campaign, personal business dealings, cabinet, appointees, etc., cannot be pardoned. Period. Ever.
8
It's weird how the Mueller Investigation was supposed to be about colluding with Russia and all it has discovered is fraud and tax evasion. *Yawn*
@AzLady that's all you have seen so far. All of this was in aid of getting witnesses to collusion to flip. Possibly that did not work in Manafort's case. Stay tuned. more to follow.
3
@AzLady Hey, Ken Starr was supposed to investigate the Whitewater real estate investments of Bill Clinton, but he expanded it into a ton of things including Bill's private sex life.
I wonder how much we would find if Mueller probes Donald's sex life and gets him to testify under oath like Bill did.
3
@AzLady
The party is not over . THe best always comes last
1
If they can give life without parole to someone for running an illicit website (and they did), they can certainly sentence Manafort to life without parole. Life without parole is appropriate and necessary to correct the disastrous course of this administration.
7
Since Trump can pardon him on fed charges these really don't matter; it's the state convictions he cannot pardon and if proven will land him in jail the remainder of his life.
3
Is this the same Cyrus Vance Jr. who declined to indict Ivanka in past years despite massive evidence of wrongdoing? Apparently, some people really *are* above the law when it's politically expedient for him.
7
Amazing how they feel he needs to do time. Yet many of their crooked politicians still walk free on tax evasion and many other fraud charges to the U.S. citizens and they don't bother them because it doesn't suit their political agenda. No justice New York.
1
@Dplease name,names.So we can know who you are talking about.
Both federal charges give me pause due to the fact that trump can pardon Manafort.
That NY can indict and potentially convict him makes my heart sing.
The man willfully turned on his country for money. He more than deserves to go to jail for his traitorous crimes.
453
@C Lee
Did you read the article? He is charged with mortgage fraud. Nothing about Trump, Russia or being traitorous. Not saying he didn't commit a crime but let's get it right or else you lose credibility.
2
@A-4151 Al Capone wasn't convicted of murder. He was convicted of income tax evasion.
8
While I still need to digest all of this, I wonder what would be the result if we investigated every person in the United States, looking for several years for evidence of a misdeed. I wonder.
1
@SFNorthwest Yes, i wonder too. I'm sure if we dug up everyone's history we'd find that they have also committed tax evasion, money laundering, bank fraud, conspiracy to fraud the U.S. embezzlement, and witness tampering. I mean we are all Paul Manafort, right?
4
@SFNorthwest
“for evidence of A deed”- singular?
Manafort committed a huge number of crimes over a long period. Investigating for a single crime, or finding a single crime is not comparable to Manafort’s record.
Manafort is indeed a career criminal, and knew exactly what he was doing when committing his crimes.
3
I am comfortable that millions and millions of my fellow citizens would have no problem at all. Most of us don’t open foreign bank accounts to hold money and then not report them to the IRS, don’t lie to investigators, and on and on. It’s not that hard.
2
this just gave trump good rationale to pardon him, since Manafort is now subjected to sleazy local politically inspired indictments that are aimed at anything associated with trump. the political system and false "legal" system operated by local and state political hack district attorneys has reached new and dangerous lows, Mueller must have already investigated his mortgages. The banks also do substantial investigation and due diligence before they approve a loan. There is also the double jeopardy issue that has become politicized in new york with attempts to weaponize only toward trump. The banana republic/anarchy that the left is now causing is especially troublesome.
2
@shSDNY has a good reputation for prosecuting both sides of the aisle.Trump is being investigated from Campaign fiancé to possible conspiracy to obstruction.Really how would he be reacting to his behavior and his his appointees if they were Hilliary actions.
Let's imagine that both judges decided to go full-boat and sentence Mr. Manafort to decades in prison. Who would be the most annoyed (after Mr. Manafort of course)?
You got it in one: Mr. Trump. And Mr. Trump couldn't run fast enough to get to his big honkin' black sharpie to sign a pardon for Mr. Manafort.
Without unreasonable sentences for pleading guilty, Mr. Manafort's attorneys would be hard pressed to appeal.
Now that New York is charging Mr. Manafort with bank fraud, justice may yet be seen to be done . . . and pardoning may not matter.
15
"The president has broad power to issue pardons for federal crimes, but has no such authority in state cases."
We don't know that for sure anymore. The Supreme Court has taken a case on double jeopardy that could upend that rule.
5
@Mark Thomason If the Supreme Court “upends the rule” that will be the end of federalism. The states have not given up their sovereignty to prosecute crimes that have occurred in their territory that are crimes against the citizens in their territory.
12
@Mark Thomason Not all the charges are duplicate. Double jeopardy only applies (?) to duplicate charges in the same court system.
8
@Mark Thomason
"We don't know that for sure anymore. The Supreme Court has taken a case on double jeopardy that could upend that rule."
The same amendment that protects states' rights (such as separate but equal) and which are invoked by the Klan and or folks of the sort that work to protect a guy like Roy Moore, will be protected by the racists currently on the court. If it is a question of protecting one guy (Manafort) or racist practices such as voter registration and voter suppression (ask Mitch McConnell about his rejection of a bill protecting voter rights at the state level), SCOTUS will protect states rights.
As Geogeek below notes, SCOTUS is not about to end Federalism. Posters here who invoke the specter of the use of double jeopardy to protect Manafort simply don't understand what makes crimes differ.
Cheating on a state tax form is behavior which a state can punish. Likewise for the Federal form, fraud relative to which may lead to Federal punishment. Each entity will protect its primary tool for eliciting revenue. In the face of that protective instinct, Manafort is indeed a puny creature who will be steamrolled with dispatch.
Poetic justice? Most of us speculate that Manafort probably had an ace in his back pocket, a likely get out of prison free card in exchange for his silence. It's pure speculation but a good educated bet based on the shady characters we have been introduced to over the years.
Brilliant outcome for the rule of law, stating clearly to the world and the seemingly scofflaw white collar crooks, that the game is finally over. The message is clear - you will not undermine this country's systems and institutions crafted by a constitution and the rule of law.
Congratulations to those who are saving us.
24
Readers should consider the Constitutional issue raised here. Under the law of double jeopardy, no one can be prosecuted twice for the same or related crimes. But a defendant acquitted by federal courts can be charged with essentially the same charges as long as they are brought in a state court. This is because of what is known as the dual sovereignty rule.
Under dual sovereignty, a defendant who is charged with murder by the feds and is acquitted can be charged at the state level with the same murder or a related charge. That's the rule that New York is taking advantage of, which allows them to prosecute Manafort a third time. (New York can do that even if Manafort is not pardoned under dual sovereignty.)
Sometimes dual sovereignty serves justice -- as when an Alabama jury acquits the KKK of a lynching. But in a boiler plate criminal case, it gives the government two bites at the apple.
The Supreme Court recently affirmed the dual sovereignty rule, allowing two prosecutions for the same crime. So if you are acquitted by the state of a crime you didn't commit, you can be charged again by the feds. The dual sovereignty rule raises grave questions regarding criminal justice. What's good in the Manafort case could be terribly unjust in other cases. People should consider whether the dual sovereignty law should be modified or abolished.
15
@michjas
First, no, double jeopardy does not prevent prosecution for "similar crimes," only the same crime one was prosecuted for before.
Second, crimes are not the same just because they are similar. Crimes are creatures of statute. Unless the statutes at the federal and state level have identical elements, they are not the same crime regardless of the broad labels affixed to them (e.g., a crime may be labeled "murder" at both federal and state level, but the actual elements of "murder" are not identical at the federal and state level). Double jeopardy does not apply.
18
@michjas
NY is charging crimes around a Howard Street property in Soho and lying to a bank to finance it.
Please point out in either of the Federal cases where this fraud has been considered and adjudicated.
9
@michjas 10 of the 18 original federal charges ended in a mistrial. I was under the impression that mistrials aren't covered by double jeopardy law.
3
The double jeopardy defense shouldn't work for Manafort.
Aside from there is a great deal of precedent for a person being charged with both federal and state crimes, Manafort has the additional problem of the 10 federal counts that resulted in hung juries.
Since he has not been exonerated for those crimes, he can still be charged with them.
12
@Biji Basi
Has Manafort already pleaded guilty to any of the crimes he is being charged with in NYS ?
Anyone know?
This was surprising only that the charges came from the Manhattan DA, Cyrus Vance Jr., who previously had shielded the Trump children from prosecution for the Trump Soho crimes, and who in return had received a donation to his campaign fund from a Trump lawyer. I had instead expected charges to come from the state AG's office, under the nominal supervision of Letitia James, and the actual supervision of her far more qualified predecessor, Barbara Underwood. I suspect that further charges will be coming from that office soon. That all of these charges are beyond the reach of Trump's pardon power is comforting.
27
@Joey...My exact thought as well. This DA will do only what is best for him. Before, that meant getting a donation from the Trump family in lieu of prosecuting them in what was claimed to be an open and shut case. Now. The publicity of prosecuting Manafort suits his purpose.
1
The only downside to this is that this state indictment will give Trump an excuse to pardon Manafort, saying that “this is overkill and the poor guy has suffered enough.”
It may be the only excuse he could use in order to tone down the backlash he will receive from such a move. Trump supporters will agree with him.
Of course this also gives prosecutors leverage to force Manafort to spill what he knows about Trump in order to not possibly spend the rest of his life in prisons.
11
I look forward to the day that Manafort, Cohen, Donald Trump (Snr and Jnr), Ivanka Trump, Eric Trump and Kushner are all inmates, be it federal or state. Crime doesn't pay and no one is above the law.
46
@Andrew No one is above the law? Proof that humans only see what they choose to see. Good grief.
Well, let’s make room for Hillary and Bill while we’re at it.
2
@Andrew
Think Melania will visit any of them???
As long as people don't march in the streets after massive miscarriages of justice like this, they will continue to get worse and worse, and the system will continue to grow more and more unfair. Soon, judges will be cutting guys like Manafort huge multi-million dollar checks for all the "inconvenience" the courts have caused them.
Justice in this country has past being a joke and become a full-on atrocity.
12
@Chicago Guy
Agreed.
The time for civil disobedience in America is now.
Where are the state tax evasion charges?
7
@Claudia Becker
Hah, they are coming, for sure. Patience! Manafort is cooked.
2
I'm confused as to why some of the comments on this article seem to be applauding Cyrus Vance as some kind of hero. According to an article from a few years ago, Vance had a pretty open-and-shut case against Ivanka and Don Jr. They had actual email evidence showing that the Trump kids were lying to prospective buyers about how well the condos in Trump SoHo were selling. After Vance mysteriously dropped the case, he received a "campaign donation" from Donald Trump's lawyer, Marc Kasowitz, to the tune of $50k.
For those wondering how Trump ever came to be President, we can thank people like Cyrus Vance.
https://www.wnyc.org/story/ivanka-donald-trump-jr-close-charged-felony-fraud/
23
This charge is much less “cynical” than Manafort‘s fishing for a pardon. It is much more a vindication of the rule of law.
15
While I am certainly no fan of Manafort or Trump, my sense of fairness and justice and my understanding of the US Constitution compels me to say that this NY indictment is unfair, unjust and, most importantly, unconstitutional because it violates the constitution's clear and explicit prohibition of double jeopardy. The absurd rationalization for such double prosecution is called "dual sovereignty" which, when applied to a state and the federal government, is nothing more than a state prosecutor's misguided fantasy: No such equality of sovereignty exists between the federal government and a single state. The US Constitution is the supreme law of the land. Judges would have to completely disengage their intellects in order to go along with something as nonsensical as "dual sovereignty" in this instance. Such shallow, uncritical and unjust thinking would not pass muster with an intelligent kindergarten class.
5
@John Cahill Someone didn't read the article. This set of charges is separate and distinct from the charges brought forth by the Special Counsel. As such, this does not constitute double jeopardy. NY state is free to continue with the proceedings without worry. Most likely, the state charges are an attempt to get Manafort to cooperate to some greater extent, and to ensure he will face prison time.
10
@John Cahill
The state charges involve lying to obtain a loan for a property on Howard Street in Soho.
Please point out where the Fed accused and tried Manafort on this bank transaction.
Similar fraudulent activity, but a wholly different transaction.
No double jeopardy issue at all.
6
@John Cahill
Double jeopardy only refers to the same criminal act.
If a thief robs 2 different stores on 2 different occasions but is only prosecuted for one of those thefts, double jeopardy does not prohibit prosecution for the second crime.
That is the situation with Manafort. He is still subject to prosecution for other state crimes he committed which were not prosecuted already by the federal case.
5
The glee expressed by some commenters here is truly disturbing. Manafort didn't kill anyone. Where are the victims of his crimes? The same people celebrating Manafort's demise are the folks who hate the "rich banks", Manafort's victims (to the extent that there are any).
One of the biggest online movements of the left is "moveon.org", named for those who wanted to "move on" and let Bill Clinton off the hook for his crimes. How does this all work? Are we only supposed to "move on" when the accused is a Democrat? Clinton had already been publicly accused of sexual assault by several women when moveon.org was hatched. The proposed punishment was removal from office 1 1/2 years early, not imprisonment. Yet for crimes that surely are less serious than sexual assault, some won't be happy unless Manafort spends the rest of his life behind bars. I say if he is not pardoned by Trump, then his federal sentence is plenty. How about we just "move on"?
1
@VCuttolo
"Where are the victims of his crimes?"
They are everywhere. They are the taxpayers who footed the bill for the roads and bridges he drove on, and police and fire protection available to him while he was evading his taxes. They are the customers and the shareholders of the banks he defrauded. His victims are all the people who don't lie, steal and cheat.
3
@VCuttolo
Your argument seems to be "Other wealthy and powerful white guys got away with far less punishment, so why pick on Manafort?" Show equal compassion for the poor and/or non-white who are given far more prison time for minor drug offenses or petty theft than Manafort got for defrauding others of millions of dollars and I might have some sympathy for this argument. Until then, spare me.
3
@VCuttolo last i checked cheating on your wife isn't a federal crime, or a crime at all for that matter. Not sure how that relates in the least to Manafort. So I guess can we can "move on" from that point. Manafort is accused of conspiracy to defraud the United States, tax evasion, embezzlement, money laundering and witness tampering just to name a few. Much different story.
3
This is such a politically motivated "gotcha" indictment by DA Vance. He has already been convicted and sentenced to 7 1/2 years in Federal prison and has served 9 months already. Unlikely that Trump would pardon him until he is on his way out after the 2020 election or if re-elected after his second-term starts.
Why would NY waste the time and money to pursue these charges, oh wait, the resistance, I get it.
6
@Jason A.
New York has been working on this case since 2017 way before being sentenced by the feds. They have every right to charge Manafort in New York.
5
@Jason A.
Nah.
Vance did the same thing before.
This is merely a campaign donation solicitation.
With Ivanka and Donnie Jr. facing fraud charges in selling real estate,
Family consiglieri Kasowitz made a large donation to the Vance campaign.......poooooof.
1
@Jason A.
"Why would NY waste the time and money to pursue these charges, oh wait, the resistance, I get it."
Read the article, the federal and state charges are not remotely similar. Mueller referred these crimes out for a reason. For your argument to hold water, you'd have to show us the overlap between the two sets of charges.
So, the purpose of these prosecutions is to ensure that Manafort serves prison time, in case of a federal pardon? Shouldn't the purpose of the prosecutions be that he committed crimes and needs to be punished for them? The judicial system should not be used to settle private vendettas, even in the age of Trump Derangement Syndrome, which seems to be sweeping New York State.
9
@Richard
He did commit crimes and was sentenced for them. The New York State indictment isn't happening in a vacuum.
"The new state charges against Mr. Manafort are contained in a 16-count indictment that alleges a yearlong scheme in which he falsified business records to obtain millions of dollars in loans, Mr. Vance said in a news release after the federal sentencing."
5
@Richard It's other people saying that this will ensure that Manafort will serve time. It's not necessarily the prosecution's purpose. It's not settling a private vendetta. Manafort is a crook, pure and simple. He has violated both state and federal laws. And white collar crime is NOT victimless. It is just a more abstract victim in that we all suffer from fraud and criminal behavior. This Manafort creep has to be kept away from society. He's a threat to us all.
2
@Richard
I think you're confusing AOC Derangement Syndrome with the Trump Crime Network.
Given the prejudice of the Virginia judge and the likelihood that Trump will continue to obstruct justice, it's imperative that the crook who represented autocrats and dictators spends the rest of his worthless life in prison.
1
Seems like overkill.
Is there a Statue of Limitations that will run out
after Manafort is released from Federal Prison
or if Trump pardons him in the last days of his
Presidency ?
If not, why not spend the money and time to carry out the
prosecution of other criminals and worry about
Manafort later ?
1
@John Brown
Because there is collusion.
3
@John Brown
The Statute of Limitations is tolled (suspended) where the defendant is unavailable.
Sitting in a Fed prison is such an unavailability.
3
@ANNE IN MAINE
I am not up-to-date but
with whom is it held he colluded with ?
1
This is very important. Manafort must not be allowed to escape punishment for his crimes. He has gotten off very lightly for his Federal crimes, and many believe that Trump will pardon him. Charging him in New York is ethically and morally justified. He broke the law flagrantly and is expecting Trump to save him. He should not be excused in that manner.
496
@William O, Beeman
"He broke the law flagrantly..."
Not only that, I believe he was actually proud of his ability to break the law with impugnity and escape the consequences. That level of hubris alone should be a crime.
19
@arusso
As we may all recall during the presidential debates Hillary mentioned that Trump had likely not paid any taxes and he replied that it was because he was smart. He was bragging about it. Birds of a feather....
16
@nora m
I recall all too well, and with great pain.
12
Gout is not a life threatening disease. It is inconvenient and painful. It is quite often due to an excessively rich and unhealthy diet and alcohol. It has been my suspicion all through the court appearances that the wheelchair is being used as a sympathy getting stunt. I hope it doesn't work.
41
@Jamie Troutz
A conspicuous scene to justify a(nother) shameful pardon?
2
Prosecutors in New York State are going to save the democracy! Thank you for your diligence and hard work.
26
save Democracy? at the price if Justice.
1
@mkm Do you think the citizens of New York do not deserve justice for crimes that were committed against them? White collar crimes are not victimless.
1
@Sheila
Diligence and hard work? Cyrus Vance could have prosecuted Don Jr. and Ivanka years ago for fraud. Instead, Vance was paid off by Trump's lawyer and dropped the case. THAT was his chance to "save democracy."
I still don't see how pardoning Manafort is going to help Donald Trump, and that's all that matters. To Donald Trump, that is.
I do see how Trump might think dangling the carrot helps Trump.
Pelosi is correct to wait for Mueller. This is not the political climate of the 70s.
17
@Skeexix
Manafort didn't talk--that's how he helps Trump and earns his pardon.
1
@theresa
There was that nod and wink moment. But then what?
Eventually Trump is going to be in a world of trouble. We still have ongoing cooperation from Gates, Cohen, maybe Flynn.
I'm trying to visualize various scenarios. Assuming our legal system continues to operate as designed, say Trump loses in 2020; Where would he rather have Manafort while Justice is crawling up his pantleg? Would Manafort be more useful as a free man, as maybe what - a character witness?
Or if Trump wins re-election, would he spring his buddy in time for him to join the campaign?
I just can't see it. But then I'm not a lawyer, a lobbyist, or any other kind of political insider.
I'm just a guy who can't shake the same creepy feeling Bill Maher has, that the only way Trump survives is if he blows up the system and declares himself il capo for life. That can't happen in America.
But then Trump has a penchant for renaming things.
I'm still waiting for him to use the word "democracy" in a sentence. It is clear that he sees our method of governance as an obstacle to his primacy.
My other hope is that he really does have 'handlers' in the White House that have America's best interests at heart. And I sure hope they have reached a consensus on what the definition of 'best' is.
I feel that the sentences Manafort received were unduly lenient given the scope of the crimes and there is also the possibility of a pardon by Trump so I think it is great that State of New York is charging him as well.
That said I am not a lawyer but it sounds like some of the charges could indeed be seen as double jeopardy. The courts should review the charges to make certain that this is not the case, not because I have any sympathy for Manafort but because of the Constitutional question.
10
@Dave
And you seriously believe that they haven't already considered that aspect thoroughly? Wow.
1
@Dave
"The courts should review the charges to make certain that this is not the case"
Wow. Just brilliant. Send the SDNY a note as they may have totally missed the boat on the double jeopardy issue. /s
One of the primary reasons for the 2007 Mortgage crisis was:
"Fraud: Lenders were eager to fund purchases, but some home buyers and mortgage brokers added fuel to the fire by providing inaccurate information on loan applications. As long as the party never ended, everything was fine. Once home prices fell and borrowers were unable to afford loans, the truth came out."
Did the tens or maybe hundreds of thousands of failed loans where mortgage holders filed fraudulent "inaccurate" applications for loans get prosecuted and sent to prison in the same manner as Manafort?
What was different about what those people who filed fraudulent loan applications that caused the World financial markets to collapse and trillions of dollars in stock value to disappear and what Manafort did?
4
@NYChap Your question can be categorized as a "what about...?" argument. It seems that you are suggesting that we not indict Manafort because other people were not indicted.
4
@Carl Kelley If other people were not indicted I am suggesting that we arrest them and indict them too. Justice is supposed to be dispense evenly without regard to politics or anything else. Also, if we did not prosecute thousands of others then why are we singling out Manafort?
My point is why only Manafort? If you do it to him do it to everyone. I think selective prosecution should be a crime. How would you feel if both you and your neighbor both lied on your mortgage applications and the government prosecuted you and sent you to prison but did not prosecute your neighbor because he was a Democrat and you were a Republican? Is that fair? Of course not. Prosecute everyone or no one.
I appreciate a strong federal government. But this is one of the few times when I have appreciated the distinction made between federal government and state government.
Whoever determined that crimes prosecuted in a state cannot be pardoned by the fed was a genius.
Go democracy!
80
@David S. It is called federalism, and the US is a federal republic. Is no one taught American political philosophy anymore?
3
Long time friend and campaign manager for Trump. Please remember this as an example of the sleaze that embodies this man and his administration .
41
“No one is beyond the law in New York”
9 words that must terrify a President who is convinced he can pardon himself for any and all crimes.
This is your future, Mr. Trump. Democracy bites back.
139
@LT "Unless you are Hillary Rodham Clinton", only six words but true in NY.
1
@LT All DJT has to do is resign on Jan 20th at 8 AM, have Pence sworn in as President, who signs the pardon. From there, its off to Mar-A-Lago.
1
@LT
RICO Don and the rest of the Trump Crime Family have experience "handling" Cyrus Vance.
Tsarevna Ivanka and Uday Donnie Jr. escaped prosecution for real estate fraud when Mark Kasowitz, the famalia consiglieri delivered a large campaign donation to Vance.
You can look it up....no Trump flop sweat here.
3
Trump and Manafort have behaved as if they want to spend the rest of their lives in a courtroom or prison cell. Enjoy!
22
NY DA's political motivations are clear and appalling, on some levels. The law should be blind to race, religion and political views. If he wasn't a Trump guy, no one would bother.
Yes Manafort seems like a bad guy. Yet, the rule of law should be paramount.
5
@Joe Yoh
Millions in tax evasion.
Are you willing to pay what he didn't?
6
@Joe Yoh your right the rule of law is paramount, that's why New York state will go after him!
2
@Joe Yoh, if he broke the law, he should be indicted. End of story. Although of these Trump-affiliated elites need to be prosecuted. The elite, including Trump and his daughter, have previously gotten away with many crimes less affluent people would not have. It's time for real accountability. And you are ignoring Trump's stated willingness to use his pardon power even if it helps him. That is a clear breach of what the power is intended to be used for, unless you believe we should act like a banana republic.
2
The New York indictments are a strong indication of what the Trumpies have to start tweeting about - the American public has pardon-proof protection that will be able to indict Donnie, as well as his corrupt, criminal family of grifters, and the "Trump Organization".
The sun's coming out.
Karma, Donnie, baby (and, I do mean baby).
Start tweeting.
38
Trump: "...a brave man..."
It takes "bravery" of a certain kind to stick up a bank (unless one's having a manic episode). That doesn't make it a virtue. Depends on what the bravery is used for.
14
I approve of exposing the truth - but I will never believe in “punishment”, another name for blind vengeance.
If all of the crimes I suspect Manafort has committed are exposed, and proven, non-pauperizing fines and civil judgments might make some people whole.
Paying $70,000 a year so he will spend the rest of his life imprisoned really won’t accomplish more than full exposure of a life spent seeking power and wealth - amorality without reason.
Those who believe him innocent will push for more of the same, while those educated by his exposure might learn not only what the law is, but why most of the law keeps most of us free.
4
@Eatoin Shrdlu remember those who are law and order types say prison has a deterrence element. Maybe another craven guy will think twice.
9
@Eatoin Shrdlu
Vengeance? Doesn't seem the same as punishment to me. Punishment that's administered by a relatively neutral authority and that's reasonably commensurate with the crime seems a lot closer to "justice" than "revenge" to me.
Be that as it may, "blind" seems completely off base here.
And his fine should help offset the costs of prison & the trials.
We do have a welfare safety net and social security - many people are getting by with that, so I don't worry about his becoming a pauper.
5
I don't disagree, but it's the time we live in and if a guy can get life for stealing a Snickers bar, wouldn't it be equitable that Manafort, who has stolen millions from Americans and betrayed the U.S. which I'd call treason, spend the rest of his life in prison, as well as lose every penny he has left.
306
Well, this is uplifting news, but still, I am totally non plussed about the USA legal system. Manafort was a one man crime spree and he totals out at just 7 1/2 years of prison time?
The other thing is that, if anything, it is incredibly easy to cheat, apparently, and that should not be the case. The way the rules are written, it almost appears they are made in such a way as to encourage cheating. In short, it's just business as unusual.
In all probability, what we see with Manafort is just a sliver of what is really happening. Obviously, things need to be more transparent. Someone needs to check the information being provided, duh! As well, somebody needs to check the guy checking the information, and a public notice should be made. On top of all this chicanery, and I don't if this happens everywhere, but we should know who is purchasing the realty and how much money is involved in the transaction, where the money came from, and who it is that is making the purchase, assuming we know already who is selling it, which we might not even know, given how the rules work.
On the brighter side of things, I am almost certain that Trump will be found guilty on a myriad of similar counts due to his scheming in realty. It's just a matter of time. Thank you Mr. Cohen. He did not plan to be President. Putin planned it, but it will all come back to bite Trump in the end, no pun intended. Manafort just dropped in one day and said, "Can I be your campaign manager for free?" Really?
28
@Reuben you're delusional. President Trump (I'm sure that drives you crazy to hear) will be convicted of nothing because this whole investigation had been a politically motivated hit job. He should use the Clinton method of exoneration and destroy all evidence of any of his business dealings. Worked for Hillary and her actions were treasonous. What this whole witchhunt has done is reduce us to a banana republic. Imprison your political enemies. Really quite sad.
This situation has gone from a zealous, not overly though, law enforcement effort to full on personal revenge mission against the Trump circle by the Democrats.
Obviously Manafort has been involved in some pretty shady stuff. So he's getting what he deserves. Well, probably not as much as he should be, but still there's plenty of cell time.
I wonder if they can actually accomplish this without a pardon from President Trump. The double jeopardy principle is supposed to prevent this. But I don't know if it applies across jurisdictions. At any rate President Trump would be a real fool to pardon him, though we all know he doesn't care what others think of him.
6
@Mark instead of a pardon he can simply commute his sentence thus remaining guilty keeping intact the double jeopardy law intact and still be free.
2
Double jeopardy doesn’t apply. The state charges are for mortgage fraud. Different that what he faced the last 2 times.
4
@Fconti
Good point. Forgot he has that option. Manafort's days of doing anything meaningful are long gone given his age. So having that felony condition won't have any meaningful real world effects on him.
1
Two aspects of the Constitution that I think should go are the Electoral College and the power of the President to issue reprieves and pardons.
Trump has been maintaining about 40% popularity, which in itself is incredible - but still this is the minority. How is it sane that a candidate can win with the minority of votes, and maintain a shot at a second term while still maintaining the support of the minority of voters?
And why does it make sense that the President has the power to subvert the entire federal justice system? It would be one thing if there were some process involved, and the pardon had to be based on some legal grounds. But the entire thing is so politicized that it is primarily a corrupt power.
Of course, I know that the Constitution is exceedingly difficult to change, but some thoughts.
43
@Evan Meyers - Republicans will fight to the death to preserve the Electoral College. If not for the EC, and various GOP-led voter suppression schemes, Republicans would have no chance of winning the White House.
8
@Evan Meyers The National popular vote bill in each State legislative chamber is being voted on or will be soon. It already has been enacted by law in 23 States. When enough States vote to give all their EC votes to the person who wins the popular vote in each state
(270 votes) the electoral college will be bypassed, as it should be....We then will never have another trump, who did not win the election, become president. As more Democrats get elected in State Legislatures this will come to pass. The Democracy will then be much stronger.
8
@Rich
Wouldn't we need 2/3 of the states (or 2/3 of Congress) for such a change to go into effect? It would not make sense for each state to decide for itself whether or not to abide by the electoral college system.
If it weren’t for the probability of a Trump pardon, state prosecutors wouldn’t be so interested in additional prosecution. A conviction at on level usually goes a long way to satisfy the needs of justice. But th specter that Trump will make a mockery of the rule of law with a pardon forces other jurisdictions to step up in order to vindicate the people’s interest in justice.
34
Not really. NYS is pretty independent and is conscientious in going after offenders within its jurisdiction.
11
@Yeah: Needs of justice? So states should ignore crimes committed in their jurisdictions?
1
Let voters who do honest work and can't get a break remember Paul Manafort when the "capitalist" candidates berate the "socialist" candidates. He is one of theirs who play by their own rules or none at all in pursuit of wealth, more wealth than anybody needs for a decent standard of living.
56
@abigail49 LOLz @ "more wealth than anybody needs for a decent standard of living"- as if I could anyone else can tell me what MY decent standard of living is here in Maine versus MY decent standard of living in NYC, let alone tell me that I have earned enough money, at any point, while on my unique path of "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."
@Jevon Dore - No one needs or deserves more money than they can live long enough to spend.
Remember, Manafort didn't just come on the scene. He was an adviser to the U.S. presidential campaigns of Republicans Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, and Bob Dole. His current convictions are for crimes that date back to 2014, but one has to wonder how long his schemes were actually going on.
96
@James Hoffa-
Not to mention that the headline reads: "New York Charges Manafort With 16 Crimes. If He’s Convicted, Trump Can’t Pardon Him". It's obvious to a bling duck that this is about nailing Mr. Trump and not for what Manafort has done NOT in support of Mr. Trump and includes a dig at him because even as the US President, he can't pardon Manafort for state level crimes. In other news, a federal pardon really hasn't made the news yet except in minor passing.
1
Indeed, Manafort asking for leniency due to his age is blaming the prosecution for not catching him earlier in his career as a criminal.
20
I don't doubt Manafort is guilty of crimes in NY state, but doesn't indicting him in, "an effort to ensure he will still face prison time if Mr. Trump pardons him for his federal crimes," suggest that the charges are inherently political?
An equitable justice system would charge people, or not charge people, based on whether or not they'd committed crimes and warranted being charged, not because it's politically expedient. If this is being done for political reasons, it's very unethical.
9
@NYC80 It's a response to the potential of a pardon, which would also be based on politics (or worse) and not on its merits.
States don't need to waste valuable resources going after already convicted criminals. That law enforcement is selective in its prosecutions of cases can be logical without being necessarily political.
22
@NYC80
In an equitable justice system, a President would not think of exploiting his pardon power as a means of insuring the loyalty and silence of his henchmen.
34
@NYC80 It may be political, but it sounds like he also may have committed crimes. It's sad that it comes to this. But this kind of "thinking" happens every day in this country, and not just for rich guys. Prosecutors decide and sometimes, maybe they decide wrongly.
4
I have read that Trump cannot pardon individuals convicted for violating State law. If Federal law enforcement is reluctant to indict him for violating Federal law, can he be indicted for violating State laws ? I am sure there is a quick and easy answer to this but as a non-lawyer I am interested in a knowledgeable answer.
1
@Charles
I am an attorney and the short answer to your question (without the nuances) is "Yes", he can be indicted for violating state law to the extent that the crimes alleged to have been committed are different than the ones for which he was tried in the Federal courts.
25
@CA Reader
I think the question was, can Trump be indicted for state crimes even if the DOJ believes they cannot indict a sitting president?
3
I do not like Trump or Paul Manfort, but this indictment is cynical and political and should not be applauded.
While it's easy to do that here, it should be remembered that 99% of the time overzealous prosecutions result in harm not to the powerful but to the weak.
Mortgage fraud and financial crimes are serious and should be prosecuted, but the only reason he is being prosecuted is because of his ties to Trump.
Government and prosecutors are incredibly powerful and I wonder how many regular people can have every aspect of their lives scrutinized minutely by experts without there emerging some grounds for prosecution.
Treating people, even powerful unlikable people, differently based on who they support politically is not something we should cheer.
13
@Atruth Some of Bill Clinton's close associates from Arkansas came under scrutiny for business dealings having little or nothing to do with the Clintons soon after Clinton became president. Some of that scrutiny resulted in criminal prosecution. The same thing happened with one of Jimmy Carter's close associates from Georgia when he took office. It seems very likely this scrutiny would never have happened had these people not been thrust into the spotlight by their connection to the president. I don't recall Republicans complaining about unfairness in any of these cases - their attitude was that crimes should be prosecuted no matter how those crimes come to light. Shouldn't the same apply to Manafort?
143
Manafort is being treated like one found guilty of multiple felonies and who is trying to escape punishment.
37
@Atruth He's being prosecuted because he broke the law - but it may well be the case that he was CAUGHT because of his "ties to Trump."
51
Hmmm
NY, like all states, is an independent state sovereign. (rooted in the Constitution).
This is the hallmark of 'states rights' - the Republican mantra.
The irony is almost too much..
225
This is not the time to talk about this...or...thoughts and prayers...or ...who would have thought criminal charges could be so complicated...or...only the best people...drain the swamp...lock him up...et al.
3
@r mackinnon-
True, until the ox getting gored is the one pulling your wagon. Now when will the precipitator [the Hillary Clinton campaign member] of that nasty "Russian" un-vetted and disproven dossier be brought into to toe the line?
Unfortunately for Mr. Trump, his family and all his associates, they all have ties to New York State. Thus,New York state charges can be brought against all of them for their illegal dealings over the past 50 years.
When New York State steps in and brings indictments, no Presidential Pardon can save Mr. Trump, his family or associates if they are convicted.
Finally, there is some justice in the American legal system.
282
@nkda2000
Currently his company is being investigatedas a 'corrupt organization' that would call for "huuuge" fines. billionaire no more.
10
@nkda2000 The new indictment mentions an unnamed coconspirator. Gates or Kilimnik perhaps.
2
@Jack Cleland
Maybe within the next 2 years, Trump Inc will declare bankruptcy for the 5th [or is it 6th] time.
5
He did his best to destroy democracy in two different countries. We shouldn't forgive him, or his boss.
345
@Mike McGuire
This is the most concise expression of the outrage Manafort represents that I have read.
4
Don't be surprised if a counter effort is made to go after various New York officials from the DA to the governor on corruption charges. On the local level, Eliot Spitzer, deeply involved in Microsoft antitrust, and Vito Lopez, a driving force in New York City affordable housing, were both sidelined over ethics charges, to name just two examples. Not a comment on whether or not such charges are warranted, just pointing out the strategy and convenience for those who would profit from their undoing.
4
@Mopar
There is difference between hard evidence of criminal acts that will stand up in criminal trial and "ethics charges." You do understand the difference?
15
Nice try, but Spitzer’s ethics charges had zip to do with Microsoft or any form of fraud. Not to mention that New York DAs just put away a pretty famous REPUBLICAN last week.
1
People who would abuse the justice system by obstructing justice would also abuse the justice system with political prosecutions? Of course. Nobody was surprised to hear that Sessions had put Clinton under a secret investigation OR that the DOJ had lied to Congress about its existence. Those are awful, thuggish wannabe totalitarians and everyone knew it.
1
Is our full-time golfer and bloviator and part-time sitting president vulnerable to indictment by the state of New York for any alleged crimes there? Meaning, are there similar restrictions in policy or practice as there are with the federal Justice Dept.?
27
@uga muga
They're waiting for him to be out of office before they exact their revenge. Indicting and trying a sitting President is significantly harder to achieve than a former President. They're just salivating at the prospect of getting the Mueller report to start going after President Trump's inner-circle which is completely doable while he's still in office.
3
@uga muga I think you can not indict a sitting president. Once impeached or out of office, then its fair game.
Wow! Now HIS kids and son in law and the rest of Trump's workers are in real troubles. He should've never ran for the office. TRUMP FAMILY'S is going down.
79
@bay "gOING dOWN" - BUT NOT SOON ENOUGH.
2
@bay It really is a sign of Trump's complete ignorance that he thought he could ever step into such a white hot spotlight like the Presidency of The United States and somehow keep his decades of criminal behavior from coming to light. Unbelievable.
6
We all know the name Manafort now. Let's keep more of these ridiculously rich white collar criminals in the news. Their names should become more famous than those of Hollywood celebrities so the public can react to what they do and maybe they'll think twice before doing it again.
The purpose of a criminal sentence is to rehabilitate and/or to punish. Neither will happen unless these people are exposed and their names are on everyone's lips. Do people even remember the name of the person involved in the Enron scandal? Note it is known as the "Enron" scandal and not the Kennth Lay felony.
59
I agree, but the list would be far, far too long for most of us with limited memorization powers. We'd probably lose count. And there's not enough room in the prisons for those "white collar" offenders because the prisons are too full of people who committed petty theft out of a sense of desperation and true deprivation of opportunity.
Watch for the Republicans to move heaven and earth to get a Republican elected governor. They know Trump is powerless to pardon, not only his co-conspirators, but himself.
11
@Kvetch
Inasmuch as we recently reelected Andrew Cuomo, no Republican could take power until January 2022, at the earliest.
1
@Kvetch trust me, people hate Trump so much in NYC that this State will never have a GOP Governor again!
@Kvetch
Oh please, with all the rich folks fleeing and nobody but illegals moving there a Republican Governor is a real possibility without the party lifting a finger. Unless you figure out a way for those illegals to vote.
Since Manafort was Trump's campaign manager and engaged in a conspiracy with members of Putin's inner circle to rig our 2016 election in Trump's favor, I don't see how Trump can pardon him.
A pardon for Manafort should wake up Congressional Republicans, who have been turning a blind eye to Trump and company's criminal behavior.
22
@L -
Never happened. Manafort's convictions stemmed from his illegal financial dealings in the Ukraine and had NOTHING to do with the 2016 campaign of election. These financial dealing were well before the election. Keep these straight friend.
@L Nothing can wake up Congressional Republicans until Trump is indicted and convicted. All they care is to keep their seats.
2
Mstrdiver,
While it's true that these cases were not about the election conspiracy with Russia, it's a fact that Manafort had a quid pro quo with a Russian oligarch and gave internal polling data to a former Russian intelligence agent.
When Robert Mueller releases his report there will be more of Manafort's malfeasance laid bare. Manafort is not out of the woods.
2
Here's top hoping that none of Mr. Manafort's lawyers decide to make a substantial contribution to Mr. Vance's campaign.
8
Seems like these charges also apply to Mr. Trump and the Trump Organization? A preview of what is to come?
19
Thanks to Michael Cohen's documents showing Trump's fraudulent financial statements submitted to Deutche Bank-- that clearly shows he lied about the value of his Castle Mansion property to the tune of $271 million dollars worth. The State of NY has the evidence to pursue Mr. Trump and family for bank fraud. It is not a witch hunt, if they turn out to be witches. Hopefully poverty and jail awaits the Donald and the rest of them Trumps, once he leaves the WH. It couldn't happen to a nicer family.
193
I LOVE New York.
(They need to bring back the old ad campaign!)
34
Manafort's attorney claimed at today's sentencing that his client wouldn't "be there at all" were it not for the brief time he spent working as campaign manager for Trump.
I guess that means Manafort was guilty of ... nothing? Important to say when a pardon is likely on its way.
Let's see what he says to the Manhattan prosecutor. A little more contrition will be forthcoming on behalf of his client is my guess.
14
An upper-class white collar gangster -- this is what Manafort is. Drug dealers, bank robbers, muggers and rapists should not be above the law (and usually aren't, unless they are wealthy). We see another example of white collar crime in the current university scandal.
All criminals, including white collar, must be held accountable, otherwise the entire system rots and corrupts.
46
@D.J. Francis I wouldn't go so far as "upper class". He had money, but nothing about him was "upper class".
6
I’m in disbelief that - not just that the President of the United States’ close friend and former campaign chairman is a convicted felon - but that the People of New York have to indict him and use public funds for a trial against him in order to prevent the President from releasing him. Is there a historical precedent in any country from any period?
18
@JM – if you mean to ask "is there historical precedent for indicting and trying people for crimes they have almost certainly committed?" – the answer is yes.
Why would that not be a reasonable thing to do?
Surely you're not suggesting that his NY State crimes should be ignored just because he's already been sentenced for federal crimes!
4
@JM
Look up a guy named Marc Rich...
1
From Trump University to his manipulation of expenses to bilk renters in Shore Haven Apartments Trump, Donald Trump is the quintessential fraudster. Will New York bring indictments against Trump? Is there anything that precludes a state from indicting a sitting president?
29
Trump cannot pardon Manafort. - That's probably the most positive news I've read this week. However, could Manafort receive a "compassionate release" for medical reasons? Sorry, but I don't see this guy doing 7 years much less 7 months in federal prison.
9
@Marge Keller
..."don't do the crime, if you can't do the time"...
In State he might end up like Jeffery Dahmer. In federal he will play tennis and work on his memoir. Let's hope he rots at state.
@Marge Keller Democrats have been releasing 'non-violent' criminals for years. Why would you have a problem pardoning manafort?
Maybe, just maybe, the US plutocracy/oligarchy/kleptocracy is coming apart at the seams.
We have this example of Manafort having the sociopathic gall to persist in committing crimes even after getting caught because he knows Trump will pardon him. Next is Roger Stone flaunting his, um, whatever he flaunts, also because he knows he's an oligarch that very likely will be pardoned.
Then we have the exposure of the wealthy turning to inexplicable fraud to get their kids into colleges (inexplicable since there are other many other "acceptable" ways to do it). In at least one case (Giannulli's), it seems solely to make money from building a brand.
We can thank our president for shoving noblesse crass greed, entitlement and corruption in our faces on a daily basis.
The question is, how much more of this can, and should, we take?
43
@Roxy
I see "me too" expanding to "you too" and finally people coming forward to expose the greed and graft of the "ruling class". We are seeing it now with the exposé of college admissions cheating....this has gone on for years and is just now being exposed. Who needs pitchforks and torches to storm the oligarchs' castles when you have social media?
2
Good on New York! Wonderful that America’s system of justice continues its work to stymie Mr. Trump’s awful allies in their quest to destroy the Republic.
16
The state of NY is going to be our saving grace, clearly the Federal courts are just about worthless.
28
@Oz –
not quite. Sure, many of us think Manafort got off too lightly, but besides the prison sentence, he's lost about $22million in real estate, plus owes back taxes and penalties.
If a NY jury finds him guilty (assuming this goes to trial), he'll likely go to prison for a couple more years. He'll get out and be old and broke, his days of grifting essentially over.
1
Hmmm, Manfort gets the book thrown at him but the kingpins he worked for got immunity?
NY has zero interest in justice and is flexing it's legal muscle for political reasons.
5
@Michael - Sorry, prosecuting crime is not political. Are you saying that NYS should not prosecute and that NOT prosecuting would be justice? Not in my book.
2
I look forward to the campaign ads next year, extolling the virtues of Trump's coterie of "very best people." But, will Manafort be available for cellblock interviews to gain his unique perspective on the 2020 campaign?
9
The GOP and their rich masters have succeeded in destroying our Federal Government's capacity to protect and serve the People. It is up to the states now to protect and serve their citizens.
29
amount of fines levied in the 2 convictions?
4
@hank - I have that same question. I am hoping he gets a multimillion dollar bill from the IRS for back taxes and fines, but I have yet to read anything about that.
1
Manafort gave current (not old as was misreported) polling data to the Russians, and there are no good reasons for having done so. Call it what you will, I think it's treason. He's getting off light, no matter the consequence.
43
If Manafort is pardoned, he cannot plead the fifth amendment when asked about his interactions with the Russians. But he could be charged with perjury if he lied. . . .
It is not over yet. . . .
15
Trump can characterize Manafort as "brave" for the same reason he can delusionally consider himself as "brave," a guy who except for those bone spurs would have served in Vietnam and made a difference.
Make no mistake about these men, they are delusional. They are two men marked with personality disorder who are nevertheless capable of functioning in society. Just as Nixon found Murray Chotiner and Lee Atwater and surrounded himself with similarly dysfunctional human beings, so has Manafort been found by men, like Trump, willing to pay him to employ his anti-social skills.
Trump is brave the way a man on the Titanic who dressed as a woman and got into a life boat is brave. Manafort is the sailor manning the boat who took Trump's money and helped him in.
65
@John F McBride
...and, the "bone spurs" did not even exist
7
@John F McBride Apparently, Trump would also have charged into Marjorie Stoneman Douglas high school even without a gun and solved that problem.
6
Why has NY State not investigated Manafort before? Or Trump, for that matter? Both have been perpetrating fraud and tax evasion for decades. It's what they do.
120
@Sunny
Sadly, there was a previous investigation by the SDNY of the very corrupt trump organization, that investigation vanished after the trump organization made a sizable donation to the AG of NY.
That is also why Chris Christie is out, especially with the corrupt Jared Kushner, his father was convicted in NJ by the then AG, Chris Christie. Strange how all the same corrupt names appear over and over.
In white collar crimes money talks. Let's hope that the SDNY can fulfill their duties appropriately this time and in the future.
10
@Sunny Bribery and kickbacks in the form of campaign donations perrhaps?
1
Manafort's lawyer should be reported for making false statements today after the sentencing. The trial was not about "collusion" (e.g., conspiracy with Russia to interfere in the election) and so there was no guilt or innocence on that issue. His lawyer knows this but uses this fact as a basis for saying "there was not collusion." As a court officer, he knows better.
22
If he's pardoned will he still have to forfeit the $24 million and and the $11 million?
4
@M Shea
I believe he will still have to forfeit the money because he pled guilty. A pardon doesn't exonerate you of guilt. You have to plead guilty (or be found guilty) to be eligible to receive a pardon.
12
@M Shea the pardon still means he's convicted, but doesn't have to spend any more time in the slammer.
so fines and forfeiture not forgiven.
manafort should sing big time. as a "rat" on trump he will serve less time.
I certainly hope the prosecution can overcome a double-jeopardy defense. The issue was settled in 1922.
US v. Lanza ruled: "An act denounced as a crime by both national and state sovereignties is an offense against the peace and dignity of both and may be punished by each."
That's unless of course Gamble v. US overturns the ruling. A man was arrested for illegally possessing a firearm in Alabama. He had a prior felony conviction and was therefore prohibited from owning a gun. He pled guilty in Alabama state and was sentenced to one year in prison. However, the Alabama federal AG charged the man with the same crime and sentenced him to 47 concurrent months in prison. So essentially one year for state law, one year for federal.
I would normally think the concurrent ruling is respecting the principle of double jeopardy while respecting state sovereignty. However, with a now Trump appointed conservative SCOTUS, who knows? I'm hoping the court will just table the Gamble case until after Manafort serves his time. Failing that, they should punt with a narrow ruling. There's to much going on with this issue to fairly decide the issue right now.
7
@Andy
Same fact pattern but different crime charges by Cy Vance.
If history is accurate, the indictment of Manafort is merely a campaign donation solicitation,
Just like the fraud charges pending against Ivanka and Donnie Jr. years ago.
4
@Andy
There’s no double jeopardy.
Manafort already pleaded guilty for these crimes.
3
If Manafort did not work for Trump for several months in 2016 it is likely he would not be going to prison. His mistake, other than actually breaking the law, was working for the Republican candidate for President rather than the Democrat candidate. I don't think he would have been investigated at all if Hillary had won the Presidency.
10
@NYChap
So let me see if I got this straight. If Hillary Clinton uses a public email account, then it's "Lock her up!" If Ivanka uses a public email account, then it's "Who cares?" And if one of Trump's minions commits some really serious crimes, then it's "It ain't fair he's locked up." Did I get that right? I just want to make sure.
14
@NYChap
Maybe, Maybe not.
The states are more reliable, though.
@NYChap: It has been clearly established that Russia interfered in the 2016 election. That's what started the investigation in the first place. Putin made it clear that he hated Clinton and wanted Trump to win. Nobody disputes that, either.
Manafort didn't just "work for Trump for several months in 2016"--he was Trump's Campaign Chairman, the top guy. He had multiple shady connections the Russians. He attended the infamous Trump Tower meeting. The idea that he shouldn't have been investigated is ludicrous.
8
A trial in state court following a federal conviction does not constitute double jeopardy under the doctrine of dual sovereignty. See Bartkus v. Illinois. Congratulations on the good work by the Manhattan D.A.'s Office.
73
This is everything I fear about government. They have such power over all of us. New York is charging him with the same crimes. This is all about filing false information on loan application.
I don't find any joy in these charges.
7
@Julia They are not the same crimes. They may appear similar, but the differences are enough to convince a Grand Jury that the man can be indicted. A NY Judge will also look at the indictment to insure Double Jeopardy does NOT apply. You'll need to read the three indictments.
Has not been a good day for Mr. Manafort.
60
@Julia - You should. This kind of white collar corruption shouldn't go unpunished. It's not victimless and it absolutely rots our society from the inside out. When you wonder where our values and morals as a society have gone, look to this. Look to the 2008 collapse. Look to the recent college bribery scandal. Think it's excessive? Try doing the same thing without getting caught. This isn't government overreach, this is a correction for the government not doing enough in the past to prosecute these crimes and create a deterrent. It may be true that Manafort would have never been prosecuted had he not stepped out of the shadows and onto the national stage -- but criminals usually get caught when they make a mistake. And this was a mistake.
13
@Julia
Flipping your reasoning, you would prefer that the gov't have little or no power over all of us? If so, you're essentially saying you prefer that Al Capone and El Chapo have considerable power over you, because absent the government, these types certainly would have that power.
2
Good news for justice, not so much good news for Manafort. And NO Pardon coming...
22
This is truly scary. The headline and opening paragraph say it all - "don't worry leftists, we still have a chance to get back at this guy." Is this really how we want justice to work? Politically motivated charges simply to ensure he goes to jail? At a minimum, he will need to spend money and time defending himself. He's going to jail and if Trump pardons him, then Trump should face the consequences either through impeachment or losing in 2020.
If this is how politics will evolve going forward, we're going to see lots of this on both sides and its going to get real ugly.
10
@Mike C. This is not getting back at anyone, this is a truly shady character who has skirted the law for years and inflicted much harm (yes, so-called "white collar" crime harms also). I live near his hometown, trust me, we have known for years and years that this guy and his family are bad news.
172
@Mike C.
What? He committed massive crimes against the state and country. This is how the legal system works. Dont commit a crime and then you wont have to face an indictment. States and cities are owed taxes he did not pay. Those taxes pay for infrastructure etc. Partisanship would actually be not trying for crimes.
93
@Mike C.
This entire process of indictment, trial, conviction and sentencing occurred with a Republican controlled house (up until a few months ago), senate, President and Supreme Court. With a Republican heading the special investigation.
Any balance argument here goes to constitutional balance of power because of control and potential presidential pardon in furtherance of obstruction of justice and crime. This is what the framers intended by state checks and balances on federal government.
15
Yes! Do the same to the Trump family so they don't escape prosecution for their numerous crimes.
50
Interested to see whether Manafort decides reconsider his loyalty to Trump.
One can only hope the SDNY is also readying charges against Trump himself.
Why impeach Trump when he can look forward to his days in court after leaving office?
19
@Democracy / Plutocracy
My dream - Trump leaving the WH after losing the next election, surrounded by legions of cops and law-abiding citizens wielding handcuffs and banners stating: "Lock not Her/but HIM up!"
3
Could someone please define "exemplary life"?
84
@MJB - "exemplary life" - when you don't get caught... or when you're rich and well-connected.
"He lived an exemplary life." Well, yes. Except for the part about 'earning' his living through lying, cheating, fraud, and influence peddling. Oh, and there's that whole 'promoting the interests of strongmen dictators' and 'lobbying for foreign interests' thing.
But other than those little pesky details, yes, "an exemplary life" indeed, except for the decades of shady criminal activities.
14
@MJB - In this case it means white and wealthy.
5
@MJB
"Exemplary life" means, if you're a Republican judge you'll invoke big words in an attempt to con the public into believing that someone is above the law.
"Ex"=out of; "emplary"=(forced) employment making license plates.
the double jeopardy argument is pure moonshine
he is going to die in prison
32
@bill b. Nah. There is a reason there is a double jeopardy law. As long as Trump commutes the sentence and doesn't pardon, that protection remains intact. Sorry to disappoint you.
I'll drink to that.
Aside from all the crimes he’s committed, Paul Manafort has led a blameless life. Other then the numerous federal felonies of which he has been convicted, and all the state felonies he has been charged with, Paul Manafort has lived a lawful life, helping brutal dictators consolidate power, and advising America’s enemies on how to torture people. Why should he go to prison for doing nothing worse than any other ethics-free criminal?
72
@Randall, I'm sure most Repubs would agree with you! - and not get the joke
When Trump leaves office, he'd also better leave the country because his home state of NY is going to come after him with a vengeance.
131
@Orangecat Of course, the state doesn't have to wait until he leaves office. The federal DOJ policy is to wait, but that is irrelevant to New York or any other state.
13
@Orangecat
I sincerely hope that charges will eventually be brought against Individual-1 in the Hague for human rights violations. Then, there will be no where in the world--except possibly Russia, with his BFF Vlad--where he will be safe from arrest.
4
It's interesting that these charges were filed immediately following the light sentence that Manafort got on Federal crimes.
It makes me wonder what other sealed indictments are waiting for Trump and Manafort that will be quickly unsealed as soon as he pardons Manafort.
I hope that the SDNY will take on the DOJ's policy and go ahead and indict a sitting president immediately after he pardons Manafort!
25
I hope they get some quick convictions, but drag out the sentencing phase.
8
This is awesome and a preview of what is in store for the others that are criminals in this criminal presidency
40
Glad to see the states taking the lead on some of these matters so 45 can't use his pardon powers. Any chance any state has charges to bring against Flynn, Stone, etc.? Thank you NY!
21
@Jackie Shipley Stone’s NY apartment was raided the day he was arrested, so I’d bet prosecutors there will go through everything with a fine-tooth comb, and Mueller will refer charges to them as he sees fit. Not sure about - Mueller seems to have concluded that he was helpful enough to avoid prison time, though the judge in his case may disagree...
5
@Jackie Shipley my hope is that someday someone makes false accusations against you and the government manufactures a case against you the way that have done to most of the President's associates. FBI admitted that Flynn didn't lie. They charged him anyway because he wouldn't manufacture testimony against the president.
@Jackie Shipley Most financial crimes have a nexus in NYC
Good. Now Mr. Vance has to revisit the fraud charges against Jared and Ivanka that he dropped (as per Jed Shugerman on MSNBC last night) after receiving that generous campaign contribution.
69
@Matthew Carnicelli
What a coincidence, that Vance would get that donation just as he decided to drop charges. What are the odds that would happen?
2
I hope that one hour after he’s convicted and sentenced on state charges, a county prosecutor charges him with something. And then when he’s sentenced to THAT, a city DA comes forward and charges him with something else, which he will also be found guilty of. Things will eventually end with his condo board issuing him the death penalty.
7
@Chris The 'county prosecutor' is already charging him. Vance is the New York County DA..sometimes called the Manhattan DA, and is charging him in NY state court.
A 'city DA' would also file his charges in a NYS trial court. There is no 'city DA' in NYC. Only DA's representing each of the 5 counties ( AKA boroughs).
1
@Chris
The Manhattan DA is in fact a county prosecutor, operating under NY state law.
@Chris
ha! it ALWAYS comes back to the condo board
2
Reading the New York County indictment and comparing it to the charges in the indictments in the Eastern District of Virginia and the District of Columbia, it appears that DA Vance has brought charges that do not overlap with those in the other jurisdictions. The crimes charged are not identical.
184
Also keep in mind the 10 counts in the EDVa case where the jury neither acquitted nor convicted, leaving those 10 counts open either for retrial by the feds or (if the feds choose not to retry him on those unajudicated counts) by the relevant state authority. There would seem to be no possible "double jeopard" claim as to those 10 counts, which surely have their counterparts under state tax and state fraud criminal provisions. And recall that all but one juror voted for conviction on those 10 counts -- the basic evidence of which was laid out in plain sight for state prosecutors.
2
Yes. And remember, there are going to be NY State charges against Trump as well, regardless of what happens with the Mueller investigation.
159
Believe it or not, sometimes, state charges can be different than federal charges. I think it's only double jeopardy if the same federal charges are tried in New York state courts. However, if there are state charges that were not tried by the Feds, Manafort's goose is cooked.
51
@Jake Mt These appear to be wholly separate charges (e.g., mortgage fraud) that double jeopardy wouldn't cover. I think his goose is in fact cooked.
14
I think Trump has been publicly using his personal "code" to bring up pardons. It's pretty telling that Trump praises Paul Manafort and Michael Flynn while they were selling out our country to benefit Trump and themselves. Mueller and the other investigators have used good strategy to farm things out to the states where appropriate.
196
This is the brilliance of Mueller's approach. He's filed simultaneous charges in NY State, knowing full well that Trump can't pardon Manafort for state charges.
Trump's likely to lose a lot of sleep over the next few months, knowing that Manafort will more than likely flip on him.
131
@Jim In Tucson
No, he didn’t. The charges filed, or really referred by him were to the Federal SDNY.
46
@Jim In Tucson
Mueller didn't file the state charges, Manhattan D.A. Vance did. The facts of the cases came up in Mueller's investigation, and surely he was conscious of the possibility of state charges against many of the people associated with Trump's campaign and business.
But a larger point is: it's been blindingly obvious for 3 decades to an savvy reader of NYC news that the entire Trump enterprise is a cesspool. Money laundering, loan fraud and bribery are among the city's biggest businesses. If the state and city authorities devoted half as much attention to white-collar crime as they do to small-time pot dealers, the luxury-goods trade would collapse and this paper would lose half its advertisers.
16
Not Mueller, not this time. These are not federal charges, they are state law charges, filed in state court by Cyrus Vance, Manhattan DA.
11
Oh good, now he will have to sell his million dollar homes and tap whatever money is stashed in some overseas account. Anyone check to see if his lawyers have a lean on his property cause the costs will continue to increase?
95
@poslug He forfeited 22 million in properties back in September as part of a plea deal.
9
@poslug...lien, not lean
@poslug. Was just thinking his legal bills must be well into 7 figures.
There appears to be no end in sight with Manafort's criminality so why would this man take on the role of campaign manager for a candidate who's locked up his party's nomination? Why wouldn't someone with so much to lose stand clear of the spotlight?
Why did Trump and his Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight act with so much impunity when sitting on a mountain of past behavior others could use to destroy them?
If there's a Theory of Everything tying this all together it has to be the fact that none of them thought Trump would actually win the election, including Trump himself.
When these people won they really lost. Sadly, so did the rest of us.
361
@Darrell
I think we'll never know what anyone thought about winning or losing the campaign. What we do know is that Manafort presented Trump with an offer Trump couldn't refuse: he said he'd work for free.
Trump was paying Corey Lewandowsky $20,000 a month to be his campaign manager...whatever that means. Trump saw the savings and jumped at it. After all, he probably thought he didn't really need a campaign manager because he's such a genius.
86
@Darrell
It’s called Hubris.
34
Re: "...Why did Trump and his Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight act with so much impunity when sitting on a mountain of past behavior others could use to destroy them?" {@Darrell}
...'Hubris'!
23
Thank you, Mr. Vance and the state of New York, for letting Americans know that justice WILL be served, no matter what.
603
@Panthiest, except what is the rumor going around about mr Vance receiving donations? What was that? Sigh. We are truly orphans of the law itself is in cahoots with the wealthy.
2
Sure. This is justice? Charging someone for "crimes" that millions of Americans committed (mortgage fraud) leading to the financial crisis in 2008? This is pure politics, continuing to criminalize policy differences and attempting to punish anyone brazen enough to be associated with Trump and his victory over Hillary and the corrupt Obama DOJ. Only partisans see this as "law enforcement" versus pure political payback and a continuation of the slide toward a deliberate corruption of the purpose of the policing powers to favor outcones that could not be achieved via the 2016 election.
@Fred Rick Justice will be served, hard and with a big stick. Manafort deserves worse, and the same is coming for Trump.
3
Hallelujah! Now, the backdoor pardon is no longer a meaningful threat, and Manafort may now have to reconsider his lack of cooperation.
192
If he’s pardoned by Trump, is there a window in which he will be released and in possession of his passport and his date to appear in NY court to answer these charges?
8
@jjohannson
about 30 seconds as he leaves the prison sally port and walks into the arms of NY Cops taking him to his next bail hearing.
When is New York going to charge Trump for his very apparent numerous fraud and state tax evasion crimes? The federal Department of Justice guidance that a sitting president cannot be indicted should not apply to state laws.
503
@Tim Agreed. It has always seemed to me that if "no one is above the law" ...then the President is not above the law. Even if this one thinks he is.
114
a sitting president can't be indicted while in office. Unless he gets impeached or lose the presidential campaign, it will be the only way
But his children's and his son a law can be indicted and charged.
51
@kunio A sitting president can't be indicted is - if I recall correctly - simply a "rule" from the Justice Dept's Office of Legal Counsel that applies to a federal indictment, and legal experts still debate if that should stick, as it is not in the Constitution. It seems to me the OLC rule would have no effect on what a state does.
104
The wheels of justice turn slowly, but grind exceedingly fine.
Sometimes crime pays, but it usually demands a full refund with usurious interest sooner or later.
230
@Eric Blair I think the psychology of people like Manafort is, let me make my millions first and then I'll take my chances afterwards. If he gets caught, he has a lot of money for a good defense, if not, crime indeed does pay, especially white crime.
5
@Eric Blair, wheels of justice are too slow, witness how Trump’s father was able to dodge and evade for decades. Perhaps his daughter bring a judge helped? Although as a court judge trumps sister should have known better than to evade laws...
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@Eric Blair
Can we get justice for Mitch McConnell now?
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Manafort has been angling for a presidential pardon from the beginning. Maybe the threat of state charges will finally convince him to cooperate honestly and fully with authorities.
Trump’s defense against Russian collusion probably hinges on the silence of both Manafort and Roger Stone. If one goes state’s evidence, there’s no reason for the other to stay silent since he’ll be further implicated.
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@Michael Tyndall
Would anyone four years ago have imagined that federal felony charges had to be repeatedly backed up by state charges to prevent a crooked president from pardoning his crooked friends? In America?
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@Michael Tyndall I think its too late for Manafort to strike a deal now with Mueller's team. Paul burned that bridge.
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@DeVon
'I think its too late for Manafort to strike a deal now with Mueller's team. Paul burned that bridge.'
I believe federal law allows cooperation up to a year after sentencing. Sometimes only a few days in the slammer amongst hard core criminals changes one's perspective.
On the other hand, if Manafort goes to Club Fed, he may prefer to stay safely quiet and ensconced there. He'd also avoid repercussions from potential assassins.
I'm not sure how I feel about this. It smacks of double Jeopardy. I get the separate sovereign argument and I don't think he is being treated like anyone who isn't part of the 1% would be, however, it be hypocritical for me to not be uncomfortable with this.
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@Bob “When a defendant in a single act violates peace and dignity of two separate sovereigns by breaking laws of each, he has committed two distinct offenses for double jeopardy purposes.” This statement, made by the U.S. Supreme Court in Heath v. Alabama, simply means that the Fifth Amendment prohibition against Double Jeopardy only applies within a specific sovereignty.'
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@Bob Battaglia This isn't double-jeopardy; it's good prosecution. It guarantees against Trump saving his own skin by pardoning Manafort on the Federal charges.
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@Bob Battaglia Double jeopardy would not apply to State tax fraud, since only the States can prosecute that.
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Although the state charges are beyond Trump's ability to pardon, the state has to convince a judge that Manafort is not subject to double jeopardy. And that entirely depends on what the charges are and if a judge can be persuaded that these charges are different from the others that he was charged with in the federal case.
I am not sympathetic to Manafort, but I am concerned about the possibility of double jeopardy.
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@chickenlover Double Jeopardy does not apply with federal – state crimes.
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While I hate the idea of throwing state charges against someone who has already been convicted of federal charges (I think criminal charge stacking is an abuse of our justice system in general), I understand the necessity of it in this case. The president has already stated (just two days ago) that he will at least be considering the pardoning of Manafort, and we're talking about a president who has literally boasted of a willingness and ability to pardon even *himself* of crimes if necessary.
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@OfNoConsequence Most likely they can ensure the charges are different. It appears there is more than enough liability to spread around -- as with Trump himself.
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@OfNoConsequence
If you hate the idea of throwing state charges against someone who has already been convicted of federal charges, you do not understand how our judicial system works.The new state charges are for different crimes. They have nothing to do with any federal charges. This is not "criminal charge stacking", whatever that may be. Are you saying that once someone is convicted of federal crimes that they shouldn't be charged for completely different state crimes? Ever? Your comment is baffling, to say the least.
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@OfNoConsequence
I believe the charges are not the same
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Thoughts and prayers, Paulie.
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And if I might add: Now is not the time to discuss changes to gun control ...and definitely not mercy, pardons or parole.
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"The loans were also the subject of Mr. Mueller’s investigation and were the basis for some of the counts in the federal indictment that led to Mr. Manafort’s conviction last year in Virginia."
Well, it seems that the NY DA has decided that Article 40 just doesn't apply to him. This will be an interesting test of NY's double jeopardy statute.
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@SRM “When a defendant in a single act violates peace and dignity of two separate sovereigns by breaking laws of each, he has committed two distinct offenses for double jeopardy purposes.” This statement, made by the U.S. Supreme Court in Heath v. Alabama
8
So proud to be a New Yorker at this moment.
But I still wonder how we produced Trump. We have to clean up this mess. It started here.
Can we banish the Trump family from New York? We should look into that. Is "banishment" on the books?
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@Former Banished at sea would be my choice.
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@Former
If "banishment" is on the books, don' banish him to Mar a Lago. Florida doesn't want him, either.
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@Former I suspect Trump claims to be a resident of Florida so he does not have to pay any state income tax.
But please feel free to issue a banishment.
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A seven year sentence, just as the appetizer. Glorious.
I wish Paul Manafort a very long life in whatever prison he winds up in.
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@ubique I'm hoping for Sing Sing.
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If justice is blind then I hope that DA Vance goes after every mortgage application that contains false information that resulted in a loan being made that otherwise would have been declined. Justice should not be political and yet that seems to be where we are.
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@Dissappointed
As well as every mortgage company that persuaded the applicant to lie on the application or provided a mortgage to an applicant they knew could not afford it, and the hedge fund companies and banks who knew what was happening and didn't report it and turned a blind eye. Don't ask for the little man to be punished while letting the big corporations get away with "too big to fail".
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@Dissappointed evidence of this mortgage fraud was entered into public record during the Eastern District of Virginia prosecution into separate crimes. This has nothing to do with politics.
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@Dissappointed - Uh, well, no surprise. There is no place, no time, no case where politics do not enter into our justice system. From wealthy corporations that employ law firms with over a thousand lawyers to defend civil cases against injured individuals; to the politics of money, race, religion, sexual identity, ability and gender in indicting, pursuing a case, jury selection, conviction and sentencing. It is present in the lack of accountability for the multitude of crimes of the philanderer in chief and his "Buds" [both federal and state].
The affairs of politics and justice may not inspire confidence or give comfort, but long ago they moved beyond a passing familiarity under the soiled banner of Manafort. Politics and Justice wine and dine and court and rendezvous everywhere from back alleys to the Orchids of Asia Day Spas, and to the the Maralagos of our world. It's not enough to lament - it demands serious changes.
Men like Manafort and his partners in - yes, crime - have profited mightily from undermining the changes that must occur. Indeed, given his age and the sentences he faces, one might observe that he seems to have given his life to facilitate the politics of injustice within our system.
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