So, let me understand. Websites that allow people to rate a movie believe that those that don't like, or want to see a move are trolls. Those that resent identity politics and the false focus on diversity are to be silenced as their views are flawed or racist or do not match up with the Hollywood elitist's idea of how everyone should think and accept shame for their thoughts or skin color or religion or whatever Hollywood and the NYTimes decides.
Maybe US citizens should be forced to carry their smart phones with that Chinese app installed where the thought police can just punish us and turn our neighbors against us if we are 'thinking right.'
7
Bravo to Rotten Tomatoes for taking the high road. In the realm of super heroes, as in the real world, there's lots more room to be made for inclusiveness.
7
Forget these men. At the cinema where I watched Captain Marvel, parents brought their little boys and girls to watch the film. I got to experience the movie surrounded by children. Little boys and girls were IDENTIFYING with the hero of the movie, a woman. They were completely engaged with the movie and the story. This is revolutionary.
9
Is this really the hill people want to die on? Its just a movie, and a marvel movie at that. Looks entertaining enough. Maybe a little too much on the cookie cutter side of things, but innocuous at best. One thing I feel the need to point out though is that trolls love watching people squirm, and this article is only going to add fuel to their (tiny in the grand scheme of things) fire.
4
Let’s bring the fair-fearing trolls into the 20th century. Then into the 21st.
Kicking and screaming is ok with me.
3
A flimsy and unconvincing argument here. I'm pretty secure in my femininity, support unflinchingly my fellow ladies and can say without question that Captain Marvel was mediocre and justly received lukewarm reviews from those meddlesome, 40 year old, white, male critics and audiences alike (conversely, Star Wars was a crap movie that deserved far worse than it received from twitchy male critics, afraid of backlash from feminist and minority groups). Far from the embodiment of feminine power and vitality, Brie Larson was as flat as the screen the movie's projected on. She ain't no Gal Gadot, for sure. In fact, apart from her characters keen ability to blow stuff up, she did little to convince me she's anything more than a pretty face that can get her teeth whitened with the best of them. Not a glowing representation of my gender when she's out-acted and overshadowed--no, eclipsed!-- by a cat.
8
I was initially opposed to the movie, as I was only familiar with the original, DC universe Captain Marvel as the alter ego of Billy Batson. After a bit of research, however, I found the Marvel Universe versions and changed my opinion.
Just goes to show the value of checking things out before speaking out on a subject.
2
I guess there are people who really care what the internet votes on? I find it irritating that someone would have so insignificant a life that they would go to all the trouble to manipulate an internet rating or bomb a review with negative votes. It's troubling in that it reveals how many really terrible men there are in our society, but I'm glad that they no longer hide in the shadows!
It reinforces for me how nothing I read on the internet can be taken at face value and it leads me to be far more appreciative of our traditional TV and print media as these sources are written by people with a solid background in film and acting and edited by learned people.
1
I look forward to the day when people will realize that Social media is a toilet. The Marvel Universe is fantasy based entertainment with maybe a few tropes about teamwork & helping out your fellow man/women. The day that the world took social media as a valid news & information source was the day that it exposed the world to an unlimited universe of propagandists, espionage from all angles, manipulation of our voting process, a complete distortion of factual reporting, the body shaming of people, lazing reporting, and an overall sense that there's no civility anymore. If you're a Marvel fan go to the movie. Let's get away from these "Media Influencers". Make your own choices. Embrace your own freedom.
6
Ironically, your comment is a kind of social media as well.
2
This comment from the article about sums up this trolling phenomenon: “Imagine being so insecure, you cry about a movie with a girl as the hero"!
3
All this story is clearly an inception of stupidity, a chain of failures and tentatives of remedy which turned into even bigger failures. It is very hard for me to pick what and who in all this disappoints me the most. My trust in the humanity suffered a serious bow.
This. is. gold.
“I do not need a 40-year-old white dude [professional film critic] to tell me what didn’t work for him about ‘A Wrinkle in Time,’” [Ms. Larson] said during a speech last summer. “It wasn’t made for him.”
4
Do the people calling this film out -- boycotting, going crazy -- know that they are doing exactly the same thing they complain about her doing?
There's an unruly mob running this country right now... they can't spot fallacy two inches in front of their nose... just sooo angry.
---
Loved her in "The Room"... don't care about what she advocates... fully expect another top notch Marvel flick.
Get over yourselves, people.
2
Makes me wonder if - back in the day - the "Alien" franchise would have been trashed by insecure boy-men who aren't comfortable seeing a movie with a strong female lead.
BTW - I'm sure it's no coincidence that SpaceX nicknamed their test dummy "Ripley".
1
Apparently they care more about the money than what the reviewers think.
"while protecting our ... public forums from bad actors."
So Rotten Tomatoes chooses who are the bad actors, and casts them from the public forum. I always wondered who's job that is. Now I know; Rotten Tomatoes.
4
One has to be realistic about Captain Marvel whether the character is male or female and that is that the character has been essentially abandoned for years. At one point Captain Marvel was a DC character but because they were utilizing it Marvel was able to steal it, (well appropriate it). All this 'professional criticism' from fans who probably would say "what does Batman have to do with the Detective series or Action #1? I want a Superman comic!" Marvel is a essentially a new character given its lapsed history and who cares if it is a female and more importantly who cares if they push the envelope in some respects. I don't recall anyone screaming about how Margot Kidder's Lois Lane was far more in line with the 1950's TV show... "Oh Superman SAVE ME!" then the comic of the day but oh my word some males are unhappy that her character isn't just a female version of a male superhero. Time to grow up children.
“'social justice warrior,'” a pejorative term for progressives"
Close. Social justice warrior is an ACCURATE term for progressives.
2
"'I do not need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work for him about "A Wrinkle in Time,"' she said during a speech last summer. 'It wasn’t made for him.'"
Well that seems more like a way to dismiss criticism, more than any political agenda. "It wasn't made for you" is pretty much the oldest trick in the book for invalidating someone's opinion.
6
I always wonder how these "trolls" have so much time on their hands to inundate dozens of websites en mass with such a concentrated effort. I surmise they don't date or have much of a social life which could very well be the problem.
It’s called scripting.
1
The article should provide full context: there was more than the 'Wrinkle in Time' and 'too many white guy reviewers' quotes that set off the trolls. Ms. Larson also discussed an all female Avengers with Kevin Feige and the Captain Marvel Super Bowl spot started by saying "let's show these boys how we do it." Taken together, all this was unnecessarily provocative for the trolls, many of whom live, eat and breath comics.
Take that, together with things like Marvel handing out director gigs to small independent directors who have had nothing to do with comics but bypassing highly successful independent directors who have lived, eaten and breathed comics their whole lives (like Kevin Smith) and long time fans begin to feel that its all being taken away from them -- by people who only want a piece because the MCU has developed into a cultural force.
That's the larger dynamic that the trolls are lashing out against. It echoes of Ghostbusters, whose whole marketing strategy was to be provocative to males to motivate female viewers. Again, no one cared about the MCU until it developed into a cultural juggernaut. The Fantastic Black Panther showed its power. The MCU is a big tent and it is great that films like Captain Marvel are being made but did Ms. Larson and the Disney marketers have to stick a finger in the eye of their core life time fans?
Remember, there were no reviewer assaults for Wonder Woman because there was no social politics in its advance marketing.
4
You do express the opinion common to these trolls that they’re the “real” fans, the ones that are more important the wider general audience. They think that they are much bigger and more important than they are. At the end of the day they are dwarfed by the size of the general audience. Of course, the studios are going to cater to the wider world over this very narrow demographic.
Hopefully they will eventually learn how little their rage about their insignificance means and get on with their lives. Captain Marvel’s success is a good first step to this.
5
Is there a glowy thing in this movie, too? I am thinking of Bill Maher's rant against comic books and superhero movies...
1
“I do not need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work for him about ‘A Wrinkle in Time,’” she said during a speech last summer. “It wasn’t made for him.”
No, it was made to make money and before I pay my money I'd like to hear from that dude who may be the best at what they do. It's not about age or looks, it's how well they do their job. And show a little compassion...they have to watch a lot of bad movies to get to a rare good one.
1
I think Brie is right. While it’s fine to have some older, white dudes review movies, it would be better if professional reviewers represented a wider demographic. Critical assessment of movies is very much culturally bound and this to our own experiences. If you don’t believe that just read review from a generation or two ago. The assessment of older movies has changed, sometimes drastically so because of the cultural context in which they are viewed.
A wider set of voices and viewpoints that people can choose from is only a good thing.
4
@BobbyBlue
I used to work in pictures, now I work in the performing arts. Her comment is naive. Movies in the U.S. are commercial pop art. They follow a formula, they test screen to appease audiences, and they're all about the bottom line. Even the biggest names you can think of "fix" the film in post (editing). Yes, some pictures have a point of view, but foremost, it's about storytelling and good craft. People want a good story. Television is the writers' medium, if you want allegory, go there.
To believe that only narrowly defined members of a cohort are qualified for professional commentary is indefensible. People study and earn degrees in the subject. To bag on the guy because you don't like the review is childish. Most everyone I've worked with has disagreed with negative reviews.
Directors make pictures outside their own experience all the time, and critics in reviewing, do the same, but being fond of the scientific method I have no problem in having vast diversity in reviewership. If only to see if the group "experienced" to Brie's liking also dislikes the movie.
1
Please do not lump all progressives in with the social justice warrior crowd. All because I believe in a progressive tax code doesn't mean I think that social constructionism makes for good politics.
I myself will not be seeing Captain Marvel. Not because I'm a 47 year old white male who believes that Brie Larson didn't make the movie for him, but because I am marveled out.
2
I read with interest this story because my son approached me with „Hey do you want to go see Captain Marvel? But RT is giving it a score of 36...“. It sounded like „yet another“ movie review sabotage.
But what has nagged me from the start is: why would we look to the internet to inform our decision to see a movie in the first place? It’s groupthink. I like to remind my son (and myself) to evaluate critically and draw one‘s own conclusion.
And I think we‘ll still go see the movie despite the mixed reviews here.
1
“I do not need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work for him about ‘A Wrinkle in Time,’” she said during a speech last summer. “It wasn’t made for him.”
However, the studio decided to destroy a story that had thrilled millions for decades for their social justice manifesto. That movie bombed entirely because they butchered it so severely, and pointlessly. The main protagonist was a girl. The witches were female. No changes were necessary, but the family had to become mixed race and Oprah needed to be one of the bewitched fit... diversity.
It’s been a long time since I’ve read A Wrinkle in Time, but I’m fairly certain no mention of Meg’s race is made. There is not reason not to cast a person of color.
I think the movie failed more for its quality than its cast, but if you are right and people avoid a film like this because of race, we are in a sad state as a society.
2
Trolls and hateful people who are so insecure that they can't stand seeing a woman or a minority in a superhero or sci-fi movie and see every plot in which people behave decently as the efforts of liberal "social justice warriors" are one part of what's destroying civil discourse and our society.
All of the review sites should find a way to ban reviews from anyone who hasn't seen the movie, read the book, heard the recording, etc. They can do so by asking a random multiple choice question about the plot. If it can't be answered correctly, the review should't be posted. Or they should ban user reviews completely because they've become worthless, due to the trolls.
There's no way to stop the trolls from commenting on general social media sites, but anyone who believes anything on such a site from someone who they don't know has questionable judgement anyway.
The trolls are unfortunate. What is even more unfortunate is that "Captain Marvel" isn't very good. The main character is wooden and her arc from imperialist pawn to independent agent isn't well executed or interesting. The 79% rotten tomatoes score is almost as absurd as the trolls "want to see" score. But we won't get a real debate on the merits of the film because of the culture war surrounding it.
1
Nah, it’s box office reflects its general appeal. It was a fun movie. Certainly not groundbreaking, but enjoyable and both Larson and Jackson were fun to watch. I went with five other people of different ages and genders and they all liked the film.
1
Blow up the Internet. It has consistently failed to live up to its promise since Day One, and is now predominantly the domain of trolls, conspiracists, contrarians, "tastemakers," and other peddlers of dishonesty. The age of the Internet as a reasonably accurate research tool and clearinghouse of independent reasoning and ideas has long since passed, and the world would be a better place today if it had never been unleashed upon an unsuspecting global populace in the first place.
2
People need to chill out. Can a girl be a superhero once every so often? Can a girl direct a film at least once out of 100 times? The lads protest too much.
4
Am not great at writing movie reviews, but our family really liked the movie for its pure entertainment value. And yes I appreciate seeing female warrior, hero types. Also loved last years Black Panther for similar reasons.
5
For decades the portrayal of gays and lesbians in movies was appalling. In countless stories they were stereotyped in the worst possible ways. If social media existed in the past and gays and lesbians took to YouTube to criticize those movies would they have been labeled “trolls”?” In many respects I feel like straight white males are the new gays. Many new films and shows go out of their way to paint them all as villains, liars, brutes, sadists, and hapless fools at best. Meanwhile the female characters are uniformly flawless. Singling out any specific race, gender, age, or orientation for special negative treatment is going to generate a backlash. In the end, I think most people just want good stories with a board mix of interesting characters representing a mix of humanity as we know it. Thor: Ragnarok, Black Panther, and Wonder Woman have shown that you can make entertaining films with diverse casts without polarizing fans.
1
And yet there is no shortage of films where the heroes are straight, white males. No doubt you are right we could have some greater diversity in the villains and the mooks. Hopefully that is coming.
When you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.
1
I can’t be alone in seeing the irony of the alt-right who claim to be against so called “safe spaces” are demanding that movies give them a safe space against view which are opposite their backwards viewpoint.
3
Have you stopped to consider that perhaps many of the bad reviews were because the movie was just... bad?
I couldn't care less about what Brie said or what the filmmakers intended to do. The fact is, this movie didn't live up to the excellence of the other Marvel movies. The writing didn't sparkle. The battle scenes were uninspiring. And most of the characters were poorly developed.
3
@Matt S.—perhaps if the person had seen it.
1
Captain Marvel is good but not the best Marvel movie. Even though the only things in common with the original comic book origin were the names Carol Danvers and Captain Marvel they still made a decent origin story.
Actors need to shut up about their political agendas and just let the audiences decide if they like a movie on it's own merits by themselves because no one really cares what critics say anyways.
BTW I'm a 57 year old white male, ignored what she and others said , and still liked the movie.
2
Between corporate sabotage and actual political sabotage, trying to sort out either on behalf of Miss Larson is just not worth it. I wrote several pieces of, what I believed were, thoughtful pieces on how her comments were taken out of context for nefarious reasons.
But it dawned on me, somewhere in the middle of that week and a negative medical visit, that neither Brie Larson, Captain Marvel nor most especially film criticism, matters in the least.
What I find actually irritating is the tendency for elite groups attempting to lay claim to the struggles of the underprivileged. This is the elephant outside the room which just goes unnoticed under the rabble. It happened after the supreme court ruled in favor of LGBT marriage and it happened again after the 2016 election. It also happens every time feminism attempt to claim another social cause under its umbrella, such as claims that men's rights are unimportant because workplace deaths and general mistreatment were already under the banner of feminism.
As much as I hate the term 'social justice warrior' this might be how it should be legitimately applied. Feminism is not a catch-all for civil rights and social struggles, and sidelining those groups only fuels their own claims to underrepresentation in the national conversation.
Sure it might seem like having action heroes that look like you is important, but in reality it's nada compared to an open discussion about gender within suicide or judicial reform.
5
It’a comic book movie folks. Remember when they made movies for adults? Good times.
7
I saw it last night. Fun, entertaining and lots of action and humor.
Brie Larson is beautiful, both physically and as a person.
2
It is interesting how noone points out that neither Ghostbusters, Star Wars TLJ or Captain Marvel weren't very good.
One was apparently a train wreck that didn't even earned a dollar. One threw away 30 years of established story without gain and offended it's fans plus made it's follow up be the first movie of the formerly most valuable intellectual property in movies to lose money. And one ranks somewhere in the last third of a franchise with over 20 movies.
It would be helpful if the news media analyzed it's own prejudices a bit more open minded. And to take a hard look in the mirror and evaluate it's own susceptibility to a marketing strategy that means "push females" or "push non-white people" based on their race and gender as opposed to their merits. And how they become marketeers and tools for exactly one global entertainment corporation.
Delegitimizing critique because of an ideological camp you put yourself in instead of the merits of the argument is not the right way to enlightenment.
7
@_Flin_—I haven’t seen Star Wars: TLJ (not really a Star Wars fan) so I can’t speak to it. I did see Ghostbusters and liked it. It wasn’t brilliant but it wasn’t as bad as the trolls who lampooned it before it even opened. I’m looking forward to seeing Captain Marvel.
My camp is simply that movies can be reviewed by those who see them.
2
I sat through a long’ish movie, after finding tickets selling like hot cakes -and though I found Wonder Woman better/enjoyable.
The story did develop well and fits in to Avengers canon.
But my view was clouded by my experience of watching 1000’s of movies-my pre-teen who is much harder to please said it was “good”.
To be perfectly frank, who cares if Hollywood is diverse? I don't mean to sound cynical or nihilistic either, I just mean to say that we seem to spend a lot of time worrying about which celebrities make it from the D-list to the A-list and I'm not sure what good it does. I'm not on the D-list, neither are 99.9% of people talking about this. Why should we care which of the entertainment elite becomes more or less influential? These people don't make decisions that affect us.
I don't care about the source material. Marvel doesn't care about the source material. Why are we wasting our times being offended that Marvel doesn't care about something that we also don't care about? They're just trying to earn our money; we're just trying to buy some entertainment. If they want to cast an historically heterosexual white character as a gay brown amputee, why should I care? Was I entertained? If so, move on.
Treating Hollywood as if it is the arbiter of our social norms is foolish. Not every movie has to be the next cultural landmark. It's so much easier to make a movie now than it was even twenty years ago and so there are more of them. Not everything that comes out will be the new "Gone With the Wind" or "Citizen Kane." Don't forget how many "Hollywood After Dark"s and "Reefer Madness"es there were back in the day. With production value as easy to come by today we don't get flops like those as much anymore. How about we enjoy that?
7
My family and I saw it opening weekend and while we all loved it, it was not, IMHO, the best MCU movie, but thoroughly enjoyable. I loved how Carol Danvers was depicted as a strong woman, who didn't need a man to tell her how to do her job or how to fix the world. She was independent, strong, and funny, a thoroughly modern woman!
In regards to the trolls, we knew that they had tried similar actions to the recent Star Wars movies and Black Panther (another amazing MCU movie) and therefore discounted the "fan" reviews. Personally, I am gratified to see Rotten Tomatoes acting to make user reviews more representative of the watching public and less vulnerable to troll attacks. The era of the anonymous review has created many keyboard warriors who wouldn't have the strength to truly act if the chance presented itself.
7
I saw the movie with my son and we both really liked it. I thought she was good but not the best actor in the movie (or second best). I hope they make a sequel and look forward to her appearance in Avengers Endgame. But I wasn't impressed with the 40 year old white man comment. Even putting aside race it at least hints at age discrimination - what does 40 have to do with it? I also find these types of comments to be a bit disrespectful of the source material because it shifts the focus away from the character and history of the source material to something that's potentially alienating to parts of the fan base.
44
@Peter Maybe, but she didn't make the 40-year old white dude comment about the movie, she made it about a Wrinkle in Time, which was a diverse kids' movie pilloried by a bunch of angry old white dudes because of its diverse cast.
Look, I'm a 40-something year old white dude, and speaking on behalf of that group of people, it's beyond time for us to stop getting fussy when people push back on our hegemony. We've unfairly been at the wheel since the dawn of this country, so if other people want to drive, or even complain about how we've been driving, that's okay. Next year and for years to come, white men will continue to have a wildly disproportionate share of the power and attention. If others want some, or want to complain about the fact that we have it, it's okay, because it's not fair that we've had it to ourselves for so long. Yes?
94
@Peter
The 40 year old white man comment was with regards to A Wrinkle In Time, which was written for a younger audience. If you're 40 reading a book for children and don't like it, it really shouldn't surprise you since you're not the target audience.
29
@VivaLasVegans
Agreed, though many of the best children's books reach multiple age ranges and other broad demographics. A Wrinkle in Time is such a book, as is the Lion The Witch and the Wardrobe series and many Dr. Seuss books, among many others
5
I own a number of the original comics with Captain Marvel (aka Ms. Marvel, aka Binary) from my childhood. I was actually really happy with how they portrayed her in the movies. One of the things about Carol Danvers in the comics that I always remember is that she was a military woman, a roll you didn't often see women in during the late 70's and early 80's, even in fiction (I know the movie is set in the 90's but the comics were published earlier.) It was great seeing the portrayal of Carol and her friend as women trying to break into flying before the military allowed women to fly in combat. This movie isn't deeply philosophical like Black Panther but the Captain Marvel is a great roll model to take young girls (and boys) to see.
31
I'm glad to see this article. I had used IMDb for many years as a way to gauge movies and read the reviews. The synopsis and actor information was great. I noticed a several years ago something changed. Movies were getting really poor reviews that, after I saw them, couldn't understand why. There seemed to be a pattern. If the movie had social themes to them, good over evil or the little guy succeeding over the rich and corrupt, the ratings were low and reviews were inherently negative with no valid description why. These weren't overtly political movies - Tomorrowland and Elysium were a couple. Not stellar movies, but they were entertaining and nowhere near the travesties that were being described. The reviews could not be trusted, trolls had taken over. It's a shame IMDb did not comment for this story or even acknowledge they have a problem, because it used to be a good site. I'll still go there from time to time and look at the critic reviews, but usually, I'll stick with the ratings on Netflix or Google.
22
@Doug "The reviews could not be trusted, trolls had taken over." You mean people who think the film isn't good.
1
Is there some reason that movies by and about women should continue to be dismissed as not valid, regardless of their content and success? Obviously there is an audience. Is there some reason that a woman should be attacked for pointing this out? Obviously there is a much smaller audience for that.
1
I saw this movie with my daughters and they both really liked it. I thought the story itself had some interesting plot twists, and had plenty of fun action. One might argue that her superhero powers were a bit over the top -- like Superman -- but isn't this what a superhero is supposed to be?
1
There is truth on both sides here. People are tired of super hero movies and many are also tired of being told these movies are some profound reflection of how diverse our society is. Did Black Panther ended segregation and I missed it? Did Captain Marvel give women the vote? Let’s just say what this blatantly is. It’s the commodification of social justice by Hollywood because they have calculated that is sells, and articles like this help to do it. it’s a shrewd tactic the producers of these movies are utilizing to make 150 million dollars over a weekend. Let’s demand better, more complex narratives in popular movies. And, much, much less identitarian virtue signaling out of Hollywood.
13
I'll go see it before it leaves the theaters, not because I have any great desire but because I want to stay in the knowledge loop for the next movie. However when Cap dies in the next movie, I'm done. I'll be getting off this merry-go-round.
1
"If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind."
Remember when we used to revere people like J.S. Mill and his book "On Liberty"
5
I went to see this film over opening weekend. As someone who isn’t a huge fan of the comic book movie genre (I get bored with all of the endless battles by the 3rd act) I went with few expectations in terms of narrative. I was so pleasantly surprised by how the story unfolded so effortlessly, something I attribute to the directors Anna Boden and Ryan Fleck, and of course to Brie Larson. She was fabulous! I wasn’t bored for one second of this film, which for me, is mind blowing.
I’m glad Rotten Tomatoes is taking charge of their troll situation. The whiny misogyny of the internet trolls who attempt to take down women themed/helmed/written/acted/etc. needs to cease. The Marvel Cinematic Universe doesn’t exist just for them.
16
I usually stay away from these movies but I do like good science fiction which has similarities to this type of genre but not enough to make me want to go
I have a friend who does and he told me that the film is very similar to the other ones so if you like those and do get tired of seeing in assents the same story being retold than you should see this one.
I believe if he had not seen those movies before he saw this one he would have felt different about this one.
I probably will see this film not because I will like it but because I will be with someone who will.
There are reasons we go to films with other people.
It's to have a shared experience.
This might not be a movie I would ever go to see by myself or even with a guy but I might if I am with a woman.
When a "hero" or "heroine" is totally impervious to any physical harm, there's no need for courage or heroism. Where's the role model in that? The answer is, there is none. It's just a fun fantasy movie, and who cares if the lead is a woman or a man. Both genders have two arms and two legs and a brain, and can do things.
6
Kudos to those trying to make this a better world for everyone. Thanks Larson and everyone else.
14
@Larry Roth You do know this is just a movie. If you want change the world. Run for Congress or something.
I just saw the movie today with my daughter and her friend on one of her school's many 1/2 days. We all loved it. It had lot's of humor and David beats Goliath moments. As well, the early 90s sound track brought me back to my college days.
8
This is one of those things that seems completely obvious -- why pre-release reviews were ever allowed is a mystery.
19
@Roy They weren't reviews. RT use to allow you to indicate if they wanted to see a movie or not. That all it was. None of these sites let you vote for something before it comes out.
Good to know something is being done about the mobbish potential of one social media website at least.
The diversifying of movie reviews would be a breath of fresh air. Nearly all reviewers are white men, mostly middle-aged. Over the years, I have been routinely baffled by these critics negative reviews of movies that I found excellent. There's such a consistent skew that I actively avoid reading them anymore. I want more complex films and more nuanced reviews by a normal range of people. It's insane that such a tiny slice of society should be able to influence the massively expensive operation that is a movie. Explains why we've had so much of the same for so long I guess.
17
I wasn’t expecting an Oscar contender. I expected a fun, CGI filled ride, which is exactly what I got. I enjoyed it.
18
Captain Marvel was a fun if undistinguished movie in the same tradition as all the rest: flashy and exuberant. What it did have was a powerful message about how women can be strong and beautiful on their own terms, with or without the romantic or social approval of men.
What the movie most certainly was not was an affront to men or their rights. I take heart that it has now paved the way for more female-led movies of all genres, in the same way that Hillary paved the way for Liz and Kamala.
14
Ms. Larson's unwise words have no doubt made her into a bit of target. Stories like this probably just encourage yet more trolling, seeing how big a story has now been created.
3
@Thomas Translation: If it wasn’t for such unwise words not much would change. Change rarely occurs without blowback.
23
@Thomas
What about her words were "unwise"? Should she just keep her opinions about her movie roles to herself? She didn't say anything incendiary, just noted as how most critics are middle-aged white men and not all movies are made to appeal to their tastes.
10
@AmyR
I suspect he's referring to Ms. Larson's quote in which she expressly calls out the race, age, and gender of a movie reviewer. Did the movie reviewer have valid criticisms? Who knows? Ms. Larson dismissed them because the reviewer was a 40-year-old white guy. If you substitute a different race or gender into her statement, I think you'll see why some people found the statement offensive. And if she had made that statement using a different race or gender, ask yourself whether she'd still be getting acting roles today.
6
I just like that this article doesn't at all mention that 50,000 reviews were lost in what Rotten Tomatoes calls a "glitch." Or the thousands of reviews that are exact copy and pastes of one and from bot accounts.
5
goodreads may still allow pre-release reviews of books. Years ago, the author Patrick Rothfuss was so fed up with reviews of the third book of his series - which has yet to be released - that he published a tounge-in-cheek letter thanking those who had the foresight to review a book he hadn't even finished writing.
12
I am happy that Rotten Tomatoes took action against "trolls." But there are only two real solutions to trolling. Either actively moderate comments like the NYTimes does (a labor intensive comment by comment effort) or end anonymized posting, like The Nation magazine does. If "trolls" were easy to identify, and liable to receiving the same treatment they apply, there'd be far fewer of them.
18
Rotten Tomatoes is rotten with politics.
9
The thing that gets me is, the ones who are defending the movie have no clue why the "trolls" actually hate the movie.
See, the problem with feminism is that, sure men have had control and women have been fighting to become equals for a while and equals we should be, it's called egalitarianism, but that's not what feminism is. They are not trying to be equals, they want to be above men, and that is not how this battle will be won and is why it has got to the point it has today. Women were already doing a great job as feminist and people today have ruined some of the great things they have done. Every feminist I have encountered has never heard of the word egalitarianism and it's those types of things that make me think that it shouldn't even be called feminism but something else. On the other hand; I think there have been some great things that have came out of the movement like #metoo.
This movie has the same problem as feminism, men do not hate it because there is a woman there, and the few that do are not worth yours or my time. The problem most have is that you for some reason feel this need to go after the women haters in the comments instead of letting them die off, you feed them and give them publicity and then the trolls of the internet come out to make fun of you, not because there is a woman there, but because trolling is easier when the hook is already been bitten.
On the internet, which now is the world, if you reply to stupidity, trolls will show up. like me;)
6
@Shawn. I am an egalitarian and believe "feminist" is a synonym for the same. I have not met any women trying to create inequality of women above men. That would be ludicrous when we are trying to catch up for respect, air time in the conference rooms and executive positions.
32
@Shawn
I'm saying this sincerely, without any snark whatsoever.
I don't know what 'feminists' you have met. I know plenty of 'feminists', both among men and women - I count myself as one - and I haven't met a single one who believes that women have to be proved to be 'above men'. Feminism is not complicated; it's equal treatment for women and men. Nothing more, nothing less.
5
@Carrie
Feminism is not synonymous with egalitarianism because it only cares about equality when it benefits women and they don't care about inequality where the inequality benefits women.
For example, they want more girls in STEM but they don't want more boys in nursing. They're not fighting for women to be in the front lines of war next to men. They have no opinion on the unequal treatment men get in divorce and custody cases. They want more women in the C suite and the boardroom but not in the janitor's closet.
They know that boys are falling behind in school because it has become geared to the needs of girls. That's fine with feminists. There are fewer young men going to college. That's also to be cheered. Feminists don't care that women get lighter sentences than men for the same crimes. They don't care about men who are the victims of sex crimes or domestic violence, only women victims.
And then when you point these things out, the response is something to the effect of, "Well, we're not responsible for solving men's problems too."
So egalitarian.
Right on Ms. Larson !!!!
13
Right-wing trolls cannot be allowed to distort the audience rating of a movie.
If we are truly serious about changing the world, only certified progressives should be permitted to register opinions on a new film.
4
@JasonM - anyone can post a review, but posting reviews before having seen the movie is no longer possible. Obviously pre-release none of these reviewers had seen it. That would make the RT score useless, since they're reviews made in bad faith.
@JasonM Im trying figure out if this a joke or not. Because if its not a joke. Its just sad. "Your only allowed to like the movies that support my political beliefs."
I’m a fan of movies and use professional criticism as a guide (NYT is one).
I can’t care less about anyone else’s opinion except friends that enjoy the same films I do.
6
I miss when we used to just watch films and enjoy them for artistry or fun or to tickle a romantic bone.
10
@Freedom Found I don't miss when "romance" meant tired old archaic gender tropes where the man "chases" and the woman plays "coy."
So when my son, who loves comic book movies and the book a Winkle in Time, hears that the lead actress of Captain Marvel has declared that the movies are not meant for his dad--who, by the way, always enjoys watching movies with his son--he is supposed to feel good about that, and her?
Call her comments what you will (identity politics, social justice), but at the root, they are certainly callow and sick.
21
@Frank Scully but AWIT, no matter how much we may enjoy it, was *not* written for white 40-something dudes. It is a kids book. There is nothing wrong with that, and we can still enjoy it. But not everything has to be targeted at white 40-something dudes, no matter how much some of us may think we deserve it :-/
3
@Gribley
But why is the response to those who want it to never represent anyone but them need to be met with an equal amount of selectiveness? Can't it just be for everyone? This all becomes divisive and frankly unnecessary. Kudos to her for insisting on interviewers that fit into other groups than the norm for that job, but can't we let viewers enjoy the film without putting everyone into boxes. It's getting tedious.
1
What I think needs to happen with these reviews from regular people (and not real reviewers) is to keep them off these websites, blogs and other resources for films coming out. Reviewing (or commenting) on a film a month before it comes out and that particular person has not seen it does not have a right to post anything. Rotten Tomatoes, IMDB and these other film websites should let you post your reviews AFTER you've seen the movie. That's how you fix this. Get rid of the trolls and let people decide what they want to see. I didn't get a chance last year to watch SOLO at the theaters, but the reviews of it before it even came out were bad. Then, I saw the movie on streaming and IT WAS GOOD! It was good. It made me laugh and excited and I want to watch it again. Leave the reviews to the pro's and let the other comment after when the film is released. Thank you.
1
If you want to be taken seriously, don't star in a comic book movie. Or direct a comic book movie. Or watch a comic book movie.
11
@Rico Suave That's a pretty silly statement given that this work reaches so many more millions of people than some "serious" films.
1
@Rico Suave
Did you see her in “Room”?
For all other movies, the same rules apply.
For this PC fest, you cannot criticize or post a 'not interested' comment or vote. They are only allowing glowing raving reviews.
What is the point of a critic if all he sees is rosy colored clouds of happy and neglects what the audience has to say?
11
@AutumnLeaf
Criticizing something you never saw doesn't make sense.
As for saying you are not interested in seeing a movie, how is that helpful to anyone?
1
" all found themselves in the cross hairs of armchair critics, some aligned with alt-right groups."
" Moms' sofa-bed losers" is a more accurate description.As a male, I am deeply embarrassed that my gender now includes so many INCELs living in their moms' basements and thinking they represent anything but the end of their gene line. Which end is a good thing.
33
If you are bent about Brie Larson and this film than it probably says more about you than them. I dont watch Marvel films generally but women in front of the camera and behind it is long over due and a refreshing change.
33
"The backlash against “Captain Marvel” resulted from a collision of two major forces. One was the popularity of websites that at their best democratize the reviewing of movies, restaurants and businesses and at their worst can be weaponized for score-settling or political grudges."
It is staggering and sickening how many "nice things" society cannot have because of the bad behavior of a handfull of destructive, loud, and very motivated jerks.
21
“I do not need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work for him about ‘A Wrinkle in Time,’”
So, as a white dude, should I not bristle at that comment? If not, I'm curious why.
In other words, are movies allowed to be exclusive (not geared towards but exclusive, which is what her aggressive comment suggests) to certain audiences including race and age? If so, is it also acceptable to for a male film star or director to say...
"I don't need a 40-year-old [insert race/ethnicity] chick to tell me what didn't work for him about '[insert movie]'
I don't know--sounds rude and might cause a lot of [insert race/ethnicity] people to fire back.
I get that people would like to broaden the interest and reviews and whatnot of something that has mostly been the focus of white men--sure why not--, but why the rudeness; just because some white men are jerks, why do I get roped in? ...and what does 40 years old have to do with it anyhow? Like at 40, white men, despite themselves, transform into a monolith of intolerance or something.
Honestly, a huge turn off for Larson, Marvel and on and on.
21
@Frank Scully
maybe instead of being "turned off" you could take a different approach. Imagine this: you are not a white, middle aged man, yet have spent your entire life listening to what middle aged white men (this is really just a stand-in for "white men at the height of their powers") have to say about literally EVERYTHING. Why "everything"? Because first of all, they have the floor far in excess of their numbers. And they have opinions about literally everything. And they talk about their opinions literally all the time. Including about things with which they have zero experience (I cannot even count the number of times I've had white men explain to me what my actual experience as a woman is, or is not.)
At this point, instead of shutting down, maybe try just listening, even if it hurts your feelings to hear what is being said. Especially if it's that maybe listening to your opinion is not the top priority at this point in time. Chances are, you've had plenty of time on the floor. It's ok to let other people have a chance to air their opinions.
13
@0sugarytreats
Thank you for defending the vastly important role that a diversity of opinions on comic book movies has on our nation. It's the premier issue of our time. I want you to know that I'm listening and I hear you.
2
@0sugarytreats
Ms. Larson has made rude comments about more or less my demographic.
If I were "shutting down" I would not be writing here.
I'm pushing back. Such comments as I quoted are bigoted. You cannot have a double standard and expect results or for people to listen.
It is a turnoff. Anyone who is rude and callow, especially if it is generally aimed in my direction, is a turnoff to me. It's pretty much that simple.
I'd suggest a different tactic.
And no, I'm not going to take a back seat because for some reason it is assumed I have had plenty on time on the floor. What does that mean? And how can you tell?
If I have something to say, I will speak, as you have.
The notion of cordoning off the speech of certain demographics won't work, except for perhaps among those who do not care that much or have few opinions.
2
I do not need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work for him about ‘A Wrinkle in Time. It wasn’t made for him.”
The problem is that this is a terrible, lazy argument that doesn't stand up to real scrutiny. "Moonlight" wasn't made for 40-year-old white dudes either, yet somehow, film critics showered that movie with near universal acclaim. If you were to apply Larson's dubious logic in that case, only LGBTQ individuals of color might understand, find truth in, or appreciate "Moonlight." Similar arguments could be made for films like "Black Panther" and "Roma."
Professional reviews for "A Wrinkle in Time" and (let's get to the heart of it) "Captain Marvel" were decidedly more mixed because those films contained some obvious flaws. Rather than accepting any of those reviews at face value, Larson is instead attempting to discredit the reviewers using a very shaky, pseudo-postmodernist line of thinking in which only the perceived target audience for something can truly appreciate and understand it, let alone fairly evaluate it.
Would more diversity among film critics be a good thing? Sure. Is any lack of said diversity the source of Captain Marvel's OK, but not great reception among professional critics? Not really, at all. It's a shame because this is a worthwhile cause to draw attention to, but it's being done based on a very misguided premise, and over a very mediocre corporate product no less.
25
"The all-female remake of “Ghostbusters,” “Black Panther” and “Star Wars: The Last Jedi,” which had a diverse cast, all found themselves in the cross hairs of armchair critics, some aligned with alt-right groups." But not just armchair critics and alt-right trolls. A lot of the critique is justified, especially regarding the 2016 Ghostbusters fiasco. Badly remaking classic movies with a diverse (or gender-swapped) cast doesn't help any social issues. Representation matters, but doesn't make a movie immune to criticism.
7
That’s the beauty of the NYT and other news organizations that require a subscription. The opinions here a diverse but at least the people writing them care enough about reasonably accurate news that they will pay $15 a month for it.
9
Saw the film with my grandsons this past weekend. It was flashy and loud. But thanks to my grandsons I know the Marvel Universe.
Subtle and quiet is not their forte. But complicated interrelated diverse characters presents a coherent vision.
My only critique of Captain Marvel is if she is omniscient and omnipotent then where is the suspense? In other words what is her weakness aka kryptonite aka Achilles heel? Help me please?
God had Lucifer as a foil. Jesus had Judas. Captain Marvel has????
6
@Blackmamba Indeed. When a "hero" or "herione" is totally impervious to any physical harm, there's no need for courage or heroism.
@Blackmamba
That’s the problem, she’s a dull Mary Sue which is why her comic book iteration has failed 12 times in the last 20 years. Her character doesn’t work.
I think people take this stuff way too seriously. Even then, it's hard for me to understand why people tie themselves in knots everytime anyone talks about diversity or inclusion - especially when it comes to silly fantasy films. Maybe I need to be a 40-year-old white dude to get it.
5
One wonders how the original "Alien" from 1979 would have fared had Rotten Tomatoes and its ilk had existed back then.
13
Kudos for Rotten Tomatoes taking action, but saying 'I do not need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work for him' is problematic.
I wonder what the much beloved Roger Ebert would have to say about that comment. He was widely considered one of the best critics in the business, but his skin color and gender would have all of a sudden made his opinion mute?
13
@Dustin: I agree and I miss Roger Ebert. The new generation of millennial reviewers is substandard IMHO. I often did not agree with Roger, but I welcomed his thoughtful and insightful reviews and often they made go out to see a film I might have otherwise ignored. (For that matter, I miss Gene Siskel too and their excellent movie review show "Siskel and Ebert" on PBS!)
What matters to me in a reviewer is that they know a lot about movies -- the history, the backstories, how they are made and written and financed and produced -- that they can speak intelligently about stuff like plots and dialog and cinematic quality.
I find less and less of that, and I actively try to read review sites like Rotten Tomatoes and IMDb.com. I don't give a rat's patoot about the race or gender of a reviewer!!!
1
No one should be directing hate toward Ms. Larson, but the notion that a female-led action movie is some kind of novelty is absurd. I think a lot of people are just tired of the wokeness and lectures on diversity. Men and boys are not shying away from seeing movies led by female action stars.
15
I'm reading some of the comments here penned by men and am appalled. I swear it must be a generational thing. At my age (almost 60) I feel absolutely and completely unthreatened by women. Perhaps because I have seen how they have been systematically denied access the resources typically handed out to men. Or perhaps because at the height of my carer I did not face "competition" from women because in my field they were few and far between.
My advice: calm down gentlemen. Women are great managers, and many make great superheroes. I won't spoil the movie, but the manner in which Brie handles her erstwhile "trainer" -- who wants to go mano-a-mano close to the end of the film --was a brilliant testimonial to female levelheadedness.
53
@Frank J Haydn
"I'm reading some of the comments here penned by men "
Correction--they are nowhere near genuine manhood.
17
@Frank J Haydn
"Women are great managers, and many make great superheroes."
You do know that these people don't exist in real life, right?
1
First: are there actually reviews that aren't just about how many millions of dollars a film made?
Second: Superheroes? Arguing about diversity in superheroes? Really!
10
My review is that Captain Marvel was another mid-tier MCU movie. It's neither "Thor: Ragnorok" nor "Thor: The Dark World". For me those two movies define a spectrum Ragnorok being 5/5 and "The Dark World rounding up to 3/5. Captain Marvel rounds up to 4/5. For me that puts it in the same area as "Dr Strange", "Ant-Man and the Wasp", and "Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2."
Regarding those who would campaign to tank the film before it was released, no one is forcing anyone to see these movies. The best way to stop the trolls who need to protect their worldview by giving a negative review to a movie they haven't seen yet is to ignore their comments. We learned this when the same group of empowered trolls tried to game the Hugo Awards in Science Fiction. If you are curious look up "Sad Puppies Hugo Awards" on your favorite search engine.
11
@CH When the trolls post thousands of times, and game the system to make their opinions appear to dominate the discourse, "ignore their comments" is naive. They are not making individual comments, but influencing social media opinion on a large scale. None of us is immune. This is the great challenge of social media (and arguably the direct cause of the worst presidency in memory).
2
Please, please, please... we need more diversity in films. That are WAY too many super-hero movies. I can't stand them.
28
I couldn't agree more! Hollywood is afraid to make any real movies that might offend someone so that just keep putting along on the superhero train. I haven't watched any since Toby Maguire was Spiderman in what? 2002? and they've run out of superhero movies to make so not they are using D grade comics. Ant man? really? I'm sure that was a real winner.
3
Don't watch.
Might I suggest "The Batchelor", "Jersey Shore", or "Real Housewives"?
Those are "Real" people.
@Beezelbulby Come on--there are plenty of good, character-driven movies.
2
The controversy (on both sides) over this movie is irrelevant. The movie has grossed over $500 million worldwide since its opening. And, frankly, that's the ONLY thing the studio cares about.
12
didn't know that actress much. didn't know she is so outspoken. and I didn't see this film. but now she is a very important actress in my mind. because cinema is not only about entertainment. I suppose it's necessary for public figures to say what's important. it give them depth. we need more courageous people like Brie Larson.
I'm a white male by the way.
27
I just now got home after seeing Captain Marvel. I absolutely loved the film. I'm a 59 year old white male; yet despite my status as a member of the "privileged class," I saw nothing offensive about it. Brie Larson was great, the actors who played the black characters were superb, and the star of the show was the cat. Simply adorable.
48
To every man feeling marginalized by Larson's "A Wrinkle in Time" remark, surely you can appreciate the frustration that prompted it. You're feeling marginalized? Imagine what women feel in this lopsided world. This very article is about ridiculously over-the-top attempts to smother a movie before it even comes out--simply because a woman carries it. I know you know it's not the first time this kind of suppressing and silencing of women and women's work has been attempted, far from it. History shows us it succeeds, more often than not. This is example is simply the tip of the iceberg, where misogyny's concerned.
I assume Larson was simply exasperated that, after the 100th+ man's face and voice and opinion she experienced in PR interviews for her movie, she'd had it. And I can understand that.
125
So if you're feeling marginalized you are allowed to do the same thing to other people? That seems to be where we are at as a society. "You did it first so I'm not sorry!"
13
@Benjo Given what men are routinely 'allowed' to do to women, routinely allowed to get away with doing to women, I'd consider a small frustrated exclamation forgivable, wouldn't you?
And I don't agree that she was marginalizing men: I spoke of men who FEEL marginalized by what she said. It doesn't take much to make a man feel marginalized in a world where any criticism feels--to a man--like a loss and a slippery slope to....well, to women doing to men what men have actually done to women for all time.
25
@Benjo Who is she marginalizing ? Trolls ? They are not such a rare breed, I love all sentient beings but trolls should be culled.
6
"The backlash against “Captain Marvel” resulted from a collision of two major forces. "
I think there was a third force. There was a conspiracy theory about connections between Rotten Tomatoes, Fandango, and Disney that led to deliberate negative critics' reviews of Alita: Battle Angel. Critics scored Alita 59% while the audience scored it 94%; the huge gap looked and smelled bad.
Since Alita didn't get a fair shake (even NYT's Dargis phoned in her review), trolls, immaturely, took it out on Captain Marvel and Brie Larson.
2
@Mike Y. Sure, but fanboys love everything.
Most of the targeted films with like Captain Marvel and Star Wars, seem to have had spectacular box office runs, except possibly the forgettable Ghostbusters (2016). So these disgruntled film fans who object to diversity are at best, spinning their wheels.
7
@The Buddy
The backlash comes after. Look at Solo. We’ll see with Marvel after Endgame.
“I do not need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work for him about ‘A Wrinkle in Time,’” she said during a speech last summer. “It wasn’t made for him.”
Yes, so true. As a white male of that age range, I guess I'll agree with whatever she tells me my opinion should be. On the other hand, my 9 year old daughter didn't think it that good of a movie. Because she is of the correct gender, we have to accept her opinion uncritically too.
26
@Bill I think her point was that the point of the movie was to inspire other minorities, a movie from minorities for minorities.
4
@Bill. It also did not seem to be made for those of us who loved the book.
9
@Bill I think you misread her quote: she's not telling you what your opinion of a Wrinkle in Time should be, she's telling you she doesn't care what your opinion of Wrinkle in Time is. I bet she would be interested, however, in what your daughter thought of it.
11
I liked it. More than I expected to.
My solution to the opinionshphere, at least when it comes to movies, is to find a reviewer whose opinions on films past align with mine. That doesn't always mean I'll like what they like, but it's better than a collection of random spew.
In this case, my trusted reviewer wrote "Cutting straight to the chase here, I love this movie." He wrote more, but avoided all spoilers. So I went, and I liked it.
10
I remember a few years back when a movie made about the Armenian genocide had become the lowest rated movie of all time weeks before its release. It turned out an army of Turkish trolls had given it horrible reviews because of politics. Having no pre-release reviews makes sense.
I take extreme issue with one quote in this article. Being a forty year old white dude who grew up treasuring the Wrinkle in Time series, why wasn't the movie made for me? Maybe it should have been.
14
@Benjo
I think it might have been made for the 10 year old boy you used to be (when you treasured those books, which I did, too).
I thought she was speaking about the 40 year old men coming in to the material for the first time and expecting it to be film for grownups.
3
I'm not sure Larson's logic is completely on solid ground. So if a Wrinkle in Time is made for children (I have no idea, didn't see it) then we should only listen to child reviewers? So by her thinking, she only cares about reviews by the film's intended audience? Being a 40+ white dude I had no idea who she was until this controversy started but I certainly don't agree with her if that's her stance on film reviews.
14
maybe your analysis is simplistic. she had many interviews with white males and maybe her experience proved her that the same homogeneous pool of critics had the same views, indictating that gender, race and status have an influence. maybe, film critics are not as scientific as we could hope. maybe it is most of the time a point of view, with all that implies.
so when she reads a review of the movie she names, she recognizes the white male speaking. so yes, her comment is too simple or not totally accurate. but she certainly has a point. so I'd like to read critics from many different origins. I'm sure it will also bring diversity in the content.
my favorite film critics are Manohla Dargis, A. O. Scott, André Bazin and the early team of critics at the Cahiers du cinéma (Jean-Luc Godard, François Truffaut, Éric Rohmer, Jacques Rivette, Claude Chabrol). yes, a majority of white male, but I think they had/have the ability to understand movies made for others. not sure it's true for many of others. so again, let's bring a new breed of critics.
3
@Frank P She just means dudes are overrepresented in the reviewer community/positions of power in her industry, and they are.
6
@rachel b portland I don't disagree but she certainly could of refrained from using language that basically tells a large group of people that she doesn't care what they think about her work. Just good business.
2
I saw the film on opening night last week. Not great art (duh!) but perfectly good fun and very funny in places. Well worth seeing for light weight entertainment
12
Yes - the good score on Rotten Tomatoes induced me to go to a movie I had feared would show too much pedantic 'woman power' - you know, the ones where a small lithe woman beats up a bunch of bulky guys. But Capt. Marvel had Superman like powers and wouldn't take the bait of fighting the bulky male villain without her powers - she just smashed him. Three cheers! It was a really good overall movie. Characters were developed, there wasn't as much constant fighting, there were new angles and fresh twists - I drove home really refreshed and happy and my mind pleasantly dwelt on the movie for several days. I thought it was much better than when they throw all the male and some female superheros together and its just chaos.
16
Larson (and the young boy) were outstanding in ROOM. So, I can't wait to see this. Besides, the trailers look good enough to me to want to see the movie.
6
I enjoyed Captain Marvel. It wasn't the best Marvel movie, but it was fun. What I find fascinating is the tendency to label movies that show strong women and people of color as "political" and movies that show strong white men in charge as "apolitical." All movies are political. Movies that represent reality better -- by showing that half the world is women, and that a lot of our country is people of color -- should probably be viewed as "less" political, if anything, because they more accurately represent who actually lives in this country, rather than the relatively small (roughly 30%) number of white men who live here.
Men who subconsciously react this strongly to a fun superhero movie need to give some thought as to what their real issue is. It's not the quality of the film. It's that those men understand perfectly well what the message behind the movie means, and they resent having to share space.
341
@RVC
Exactly. I remember when Ben Affleck's Batman vs. Superman came out, all the sexists who criticized it because they are resentful and don't want to share space with Ben Affleck.
I get annoyed by the notion that something can just be a "bad movie". There is always some social dynamic behind it that makes me a superior, enlightened person in the end.
6
@RVC
When the star of the movie goes out of her way -- indeed, makes it her life's mission -- to turn everything into a political statement, we should take her at her word. She wanted a "big feminist movie"; she obsesses about the race and sex of journalists. (Which, as it happens, couldn't happen to a nicer bunch.) It's not the critics who turn this into a political statement; it's the star herself. Take it up with her.
2
@Dan RVC, and a lot of people, thought Captain Marvel was a good movie. Don't cut yourself on that edge while you're projecting the need to prove yourself intellectually and morally superior onto others.
14
Good for Brie Larson.
Different types of people from different backgrounds ask different questions.
We need to hear and read those perspectives.
185
I agree with you in the sense that we need that we need different types of people from different backgrounds to have more diverse perspectives. The problem is language matters. You cannot say something wasn't made for someone regardless of their gender or race, granted I too would like to hear more different perspectives.
The thing is gender and race are not the only context in which we critique movies. Everyone should be entitled to their opinions.
All that being said, I may not agree with everything she has done or said in the past, but I loved the movie and people who judge it before seeing it should learn to keep an open mind.
18
@KJ That being said, most movies are not made with me in mind -- a middle aged gay female who wants to see strong female characters who are the leads in a film.
24
You are quite right and I absolutely support more movies with more diversity. Like I said I really enjoyed this movie and I am a male. And that is my point, it was not necessarily intended for me but even I felt empowered :). I really do believe the only way we can start to change peoples minds is too make sure everyone is included. In this particular case I think that was her intention even if it may have been poorly worded.
11
The following are not mutually exclusive:
People with right-leaning views are dedicated to sinking "Captain Marvel" for its feminist message.
People with left-leaning views are dedicated to lauding "Captain Marvel" for its feminist message.
"Captain Marvel" is a mediocre film whose makers are depending on progressive hype to guarantee blockbuster performance.
15
@Len Arends Not exactly. In the US, the opening weekend total was a very decent $153 million, and the international total was $455 million. Clearly, this success is not due merely to American progressive cheerleaders!
12
Yes, and the weekend box office for the Captain was almost three times all other movies combined. So the story of the aggrieved old guys is interesting, but the people involved with the film are laughing all the way to the bank.
11
@Jerry Schulz
Captain Marvel has zero competition and Disney practically took over most screens in the country. It was practically the only choice at the cinema last weekend, and this weekend too. The other studios just can’t and won’t compete with Disney.
2
"Social justice" is now a pejorative term? The U.S. has sunk so low.
51
@ML Good old Martin Luther King, that social justice warrior.
9
That's because the term "social justice" has been co-opted by the Left and no longer means what the plain words suggest and formerly meant.
8
@Michael Cohan Or perhaps the term has been co-opted by the Right to use as an attack on a straw-man version of the Left?
30
Now I want to see that movie.
9
Captain Marvel was male in the comics,
Does this mean that the Captain Marvel in the
movie is Transgender?
Gotta love the American PC generation.
2
@horace Greeley Both male and female characters have taken on the role of Captain Marvel. Carol Danvers first became Captain Marvel in 1982.
18
@horace Greeley In Marvel Comics there are two Captain Marvels. Air Force Captain Carol Danvers was introduced in Marvel Comics in the 60s, and gained her powers from the original male Captain Marvel in 1977. She has been one of the Marvel comics mightiest heroes ever since
15
@ML Actually I had that wrong. Carol Danvers appears in the '70's as Ms Marvel and then eventually takes over the role of Captain Marvel.
9
To be honest, there is something sad and pathetic about grown men claiming their lives are ruined because there is a female superhero. That is one miserable life these guys are living.
217
So much of it comes from sexually frustrated young men who don't know how to act around strong women in real life.
19
Anyone criticizing the movie or the past statements/comments made by the actress that they found offensive, is a woman hating, racist, troll and it’s perfectly acceptable censor, delete or completely change every mechanic currently running the internet or websites to silence their hate-based opinions. Got it.
The only problem is that the premise is entirely false. Virtually all the franchise/comic book guys hating on this were highly recommending Alita Battle Angel, out at the same time-also starting a female lead and will rate Aliens, staring Sigourney Weaver, almost unanimously as one of their top 5 sci-fi movies of all time.
Guys don’t actually care about the gender of the character. The working theory is that fanatical feminists write terrible characters because they’re flat, one-dimensional and are generally so over-powered the movie is boring. The starting point of their stories are a political statement, instead of writing a good story around characters vs conflict. The new Star Wars is garbage because of this backward style of storytelling.
Having watched the movie, Capt. Marvel was exactly the movie character predicted by the “trolls”. It was watchable, but I’d put it as the weakest of the Marvel movies and will not buy the blu-ray.
12
@David
None of the following are overpowered?
1. Hulk - can lift a mtn
2. Superman - nuff said
3. Silver Surfer - flies through space on a surf board
4. Wolverine - unbreakable and regenerates.
There’s many more to that list.
Just try to kill them. They’re still compelling characters though, why? Is it possible you don’t find this Captain Marvel compelling because you have an issue with powerful women? That’s a sincere question.
Also a sincere question, maybe you (and the guys you point to) find female characters more compelling when they display more sex appeal or are more childlike like Alita?
I’m not asking you these questions to pick on you. I’m a guy too. I’m just suggesting that maybe you’re being defensive instead of self-reflecting.
6
The “working theory” is bigoted, and the reviews prior to seeing the movies were an act of prejudice based on the bigotry. That you stuck by your prejudices despite seeing the movie doesn’t mean much; people who are prejudiced without facts tend to stay prejudiced despite facts.
5
My daughter liked it ...gave it a 6 out of 10 ...
brie was OK ...not the best ... per her
I don't like how she stated her opinions ...she came across as bad as what she says she is fighting against...
I approve of the positive women's outlook ...but not the white man hating part ...
12
Agree, it was good, not great. I loved Brie in "The Room" but she seemed miscast to me :(
2
@DVMLF I’m just imagining Brie Larson saying “Oh hi Mark.” :)
1
How sad that there are people who are so threatened or irked by other people asserting themselves that they feel the need to lash out like this. No one is forcing you to see the movie, or to praise it.
But if you're going to attack a work or art, try doing it on the merits, not just because you think girls have cooties and you don't want them breathing girl germs inside your club house.
33
I am not a "white dude", but her statement concerning white males could have been made with more tact.
15
@Paul The same tact white dudes have been using to describe everyone else for the last 500 years?
26
@Todd
Not the same, more tact. 40 year old white men (not dudes) aren't 500 years old. People should just speak respectfully to/about others, it's not complicated.
3
@Paul You mean the sort of tact the white dudes use to talk about women they do not like?
7
There was a montage where Captain Marvel as a young girl and woman shows her true grit and gets up again after falling down. My husband said he got teary-eyed watching that scene, exclaiming he can't wait to show the movie to our daughter when she's old enough (she's two now). He was already a huge Marvel fan but has been snapping up all the Captain Marvel action figures to save for her future birthdays.
It's just so, so, so refreshing that Hollywood is finally waking up to the fact that it has a very diverse audience and an audience that would love to see more diversity. For example, we saw "Crazy Rich Asians" several times and I had turned to my husband and exclaimed, "Wow, it's so refreshing to see someone I can identify with (Constance Wu) be the heroine on the big screen. I never saw someone like her in movies when I was growing up!" I know, my husband, who is a white dude, is relieved and excited that his children will see a more diverse cast of people at the movies!
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« I do not need a 40-year-old white dude to tell me what didn’t work for him about ‘A Wrinkle in Time,’” she said during a speech last summer. “It wasn’t made for him.”
I liked wrinkle in time. It must have been made for *50* year old white dudes.
8
If you liked Wrinkle in Time, you certainly were among a small minority of moviegoers. The general consensus was that it was terrible. But I'm a white male, so clearly I'm not entitled to have an opinion.
5
I'm a *60* year old white male. I also liked "A Wrinkle in Time".
2
Oh, Michael, grow up. You sound exactly like a 6 year old. Think in shades, not black and white. Larson is entitled to her views. Nothing she said disenfranchises you and you status. I’m a 60 year old white male. I’m looking forward to seeing this movie on its merits. You’ll find gentle acceptance of difference works so much better than fear.
7
I look forward to seeing this movie for a lot of reasons.
How pathetic when someone has to resort to trolling and fake reviews to make a political point. Seems to me this behavior reveals the emptiness of your point, and nothing about the movie or it's actors.
If MRA's had something legitimate to contribute to modern society, feminism or film, they would not have to engage in dishonest means to do so.
7
I'm sure I'll get hounded for this, but as a white straight man, I don't care who helms a superhero movie. 'Alien' had a female lead, and I never thought, 'why is she there?' It was organic to the movie, she was fantastic and no one thought twice about it. What annoys me is that Larson tells me flat out that my sex and skin color make me some force of evil, and this movie is engineered to be a response to that idea. To me, that's the definition or racism and yes, I do take offense.
19
@dmansky Thats a pretty lose paraphrase.
6
When the star/ creative director of a movie actively badmouths a group of people, those people are going to get angry, and will probably want the movie to fail. Maybe it's not a good marketing strategy to insult half your audience and expect them to just sit there and take it.
10
@Mike H
Looks like it worked out just fine. Do you think the actress in the business might know more about how this type of press might play out than you?
7
@Mike H Would you include objectify half your audience as insulting half your audience. IF so have I got 100 years worth of films for you.
6
I remember that a few years ago when The Interview (a comedy about the killing of Kim Jong-un) was released a similar online campaign took place. The objective: Make The Interview one of the top movies on IMDB to fight back North Korea's hacking of Sony. Back then, to no one surprise, there were no tweaking of the algorithms.
Certainly there was a campaign against Captain Marvel and trolls had their field day, but this happens all the time.
Users rate movies based on political views or mere "fanboyism" frequently and yet this is the first time the apps do something about it. This leads me to believe that their reason for changing the ratings is not about "accurately and authentically represent the voice of fans" but about political correctness.
Will they do the same thing if, say, a movie about Jordan Peterson hits the cinema and is sabotaged? Will they defend conservative or right-wing views of the world in the same way they defend Captain Marvel?
Policing reality is not an easy job, so only time will tell.
4
Dude, it's not about political correctness. It's about a small majority of bored, angry man-babies trying to be relevant by sabotaging anything that they feel threatened by. Which, apparently, is everything. :) They haven't even watched the movies they are so critical of so how is their opinion even relevant?
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@Ezequiel
Sorry, being able to review a movie you've never seen should have never been a thing. This is a good change, and not just for a single movie.
18
@Ezequiel
Only certain groups are allowed to set the parameters of what is real and unreal. Bias complaints by outsiders are "politically correct" and therefore invalid. It's a common enough tactic, it's called gaslighting.
4
Anyone who has ever run email servers for a living knows that probably 50 to 90 percent of all email messages are spam, or worse. Social media comments are the same. They cannot be trusted. There is an entire industry built on slamming competitors with bad ratings.
10
I bet the producers of previous classic flops like "Ishtar" or "Gigli" had claims of sexism or racism to distract from the widespread public narratives that their movies were terrible. People today have it easy.
4
I congratulate western capitalism for having succeeded to the point where the major social campaign extant is battling for gender and racial diversity in superhero movies. Oh, and in the Hollywood press corps. Kudos. One suspects battles in Venezuela, Yemen, Syria, etc are over somewhat more pedestrian issues. Such as not starving.
9
@JFB Why should we not address all topics in a newspaper?? As if homelessness is not an issue in America? And kids hungry campaigns? Why be selective??
6
I think we can be real that The Last Jedi was an objectively bad movie and that from a diversity standpoint it was much the same as The Force Awakens, which didn’t have such a negative effect on audiences. Analysts trying to cover for The Last Jedi’s faults by conflating it with negative social trends are doing everyone a disservice. The movie was half baked in a thousand ways other than the diversity of the cast.
30
@Jason Well, everything since the original three SW films was pretty "half-baked" and even the first three seemed to be mostly about marketing toys.
5
@Jason Hi Jason, there's no such thing as an objective opinion, by nature, all opinions are subjective, a rule easily proven by the fact that millions of people, including me and my kids, love the movie.
Sorry you didn't, but that doesn't change the fact that the Last Jedi suffered a great many online attacks by misogynists and racists, just like Captain Marvel.
13
@Jason There is no such thing as an "objectively" bad movie as art by definition is "subjective". And I completely disagree with your assessment of The Last Jedi which I thought was one of the best of the series. Subjectively so.
Part of that problem might be that I have no emotional or spiritual investment in the Star Wars series so it was not possible for me to go completely mental over any of it's episodes.
7
This article can't be accurate, because Rotten Tomatoes removed certain functionality from its website for ALL movies, not just a single superhero movie starring an outspoken feminist.
This is about a movie review website suppressing opposing viewpoints because it fears its ability to monetize unpaid for content from fans (or detractors) will be lessened unless the reviews are generally favorable.
It's unfair to criticize Brie's detractors (not "trolls") for negatively reviewing the film based on political bias, when she herself made her political and social viewpoints central to the evaluation of the film, as well as the evaluation of its evaluators.
12
@hula hoop Problem was that the "detractors" were "reviewing" a movie they had not seen because it had not been seen by anyone.
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@hula hoop
Unfair to criticize trolls? Who posted negative reviews without having seen the movie? I think you missed the point.
18
Did you write this opinion before your read the article? Just like the reviewers who wrote reviews before seeing the movie.
20
Its intriguing that Rotten Tomatoes has implanted itself in being anti-troll, which could open the website up to drawing the ire of right-leaning misogynists in a new way.
Ultimately, this site has cemented itself (for better or worse) as a universally-accepted barometer of a film's overall quality. Any reactionary newcomer would have a long hill to climb to match its clout. In short, it may be untouchable. So, its commendable that they took an active step to neutralize bad actors. Bravo.
Facebook: your turn.
63
I am a white male, 69 years old. I like Marvel movies, well most of them. If Captain Marvel is a woman, that is fine with me. I commend Rotten Tomatoes for taking on these bad actors spewing their garbage behind the safety of a computer screen. Finally, I'm also relieved I can still rely on Rottentomatoes!!
104
Wonder Woman's reviews on Rotten Tomatoes were 10-20% higher. The backlash isn't about sexism, it's about divisive loudmouths spewing bullcorn about their ideologies and expecting to be handed success because they belong to some oppressed group, instead of being talented.
16
@Ben L.
Right, sexism and misogyny don't exist. It's just a coincidence that any time a leading role is performed by a woman that the trolls come out in force, I'm sure. I can't seem to find all the "Why does Superman have to be a dude" comments for some reason. I can see why Wonder Woman was scored a bit higher, it was a bit better. But Captain Marvel was a good movie in its own right and very much worth seeing.
92
@VivaLasVegans
Sexism and misogyny do exist and it is not a coincidence that strong female characters cause some men (and women) to be insecure. By the same token, a leading actress that dismisses opinions because they are held by men will become a lightning rod for negative attention. Ms. Larson should learn that it is possible to stand up for herself and others without tearing down the other 50% of the population.
8
@jpbaz
Ms. Larson's dismissal of 40-year-old-men was with regards to them not being the target audience of A Wrinkle in Time, which was written for a much younger demographic. I think people are stretching that specific case to paint all of her comments with a broad brush.
15
Ms. Larson does appear to be an insufferable identity warrior. A Wrinkle in Time was a great book – and an unwatachable movie, so obviously in thrall to “diversity” that it was impossible to get through it. Ghostbusters wasn’t nearly as bad, but taking a classic movie and deliberately turning it into a PC vehicle made it grate. And The Last Jedi is the only Star Wars movie I have seen only once, and will never watch again.
If Ms.Larson is all that concerned about “diversity”, she should refuse all further roles in favor of black, disabled, trans women. Every time she takes a role, she deprives a real “victim” of that opportunity.
But now that they’ve changed Captain Marvel into a woman (like Gallactica turned Starbuck and Boomer into women), it’s about time that we had a male Wonderwoman and a white Black Panther.
Wonderwoman was a great flick, precisely because it didn't seem forced. Apparently, it featured a woman director; query why that's important, or whether anyone could tell the difference from the final product? Perhaps Captain will be a decent movie in spite of the star's silly obsession with identity.
21
@Brenda Captain Marvel from Marvel comics was always a woman. You are thinking of DC comics
6
@Brenda -
Just to get it clear, the Marvel Comics Captain Marvel was a man first, then in the 70's an offshoot Kree-powered hero was made called Carol Danvers-- Ms. Marvel. In the '80s Marvel Comics killed the male Captain Marvel and they created a non-Kree powered female character called "Captain Marvel". That 2nd CM was later name-changed to Photon. In the 2000s, Carol Danvers/Ms. Marvel Inherited the Captain Marvel name in a new series and has been the 3rd and latest person to use the name "Captain Marvel" in the Marvel comics continuity. No one "changed Captain Marvel into a woman". A woman character who lives in the same world as the previous one, with powers derived from the same power source and shares a genetic heritage with, took up the mantle of the prior dead character. Sorry, no great injustices to root out here.
12
Starbuck as a woman was way better than Dirk Benedict. Everything about the remake was better.
2
I had no idea prior to reading this article that there was such a stir regarding Brie Larson as Captain Marvel. For me the idea of a woman superhero, or villain, was laid to rest with Mystique, 19 years ago in X-Men. I saw the movie yesterday and for 5 bucks it was worth the money spent. Ms. Larson did well with her part but nothing remarkable. I really didn't notice the absence of white guys. If you're a Marvel fan the movie won't disappoint but it won't be your most favorite one either.
15
@Kurt Pickard
Since I take pains to avoid spoilers for a movie I plan to see, I was surprised there was all this hoopla about it also. The main villain was a white guy, but I have to admit I didn't even notice the colors of the rest of the cast. I barely even noticed the genders.
3
Pre-release audience reviews are a dumb idea and shouldn't have existed in the first place.
For the longest time, I thought allowing everyone to post/have a voice on the internet was a good, new thing. I'm old enough (42) to remember when you had to get your opinions from TV, radio, news papers, magazines, etc. Professional critics and writers. And, of course, people you actually knew personally.
Now, I question that. Trolling, review-bombing, and 'fake news' is rampant. Maybe more people should just shut up and leave the critiquing to the professionals...
PS: I am aware of the irony of me stating that opinion in a post.
37
@Matt - so true.And at the same time, you are to be aware that we are the country of free speech and that everyone, even rotten citizens, can express their feelings!
@MykGee
Everyone has the right to express their beliefs, but they are not guaranteed a platform to do so, nor are they guaranteed to be without consequence.
9
I wonder if the trolls realize all the negative publicity just makes folks want to see it more? They're probably responsible for the movie's stellar opening weekend.
I went to see it because I suspect knowing what's in it will make the next Avengers movie more enjoyable. Personally, I liked it quite a bit. It's not Marvel's best movie, but it was good fun and had some great action sequences. I thought the climax was a little over the top (Carol suddenly turned into Superwoman), but I can overlook it and still like the character.
10
@Amanda
That's actually in keeping with the comics. She was strong, could fly, was nearly indestructible, etc. The movie was her origin story, so she grew into her powers over the duration.
9
I gave Captain Marvel a 10, it’s a really fun and entertaining movie.
10
Good job Brie Larson (and rotten tomatoes)... I still don't want to see Captain Marvel because superhero movies tend to be pretty reductive and trite... (especially heroes I've never actually heard of).... but good job anyway! I'm more inclined to see the movie now than I otherwise would have been.
9
I think it would be a good policy for studios to require actors to not make overt political statements that alienate large portions of the core audience of their films. If Brie Larson were an intelligent commentator, she would understand that her opinions are going to have impacts on her product; especially in a puff piece like Captain Marvel. Since she seems oblivious to this fact, I can't see why I would take her opinions very seriously, which should probably be the case for almost all entertainers, who are not chosen for their intelligence or judgement, but instead their looks and ability to convince audiences they are who they are not.
19
@Jon Nordland Considering the film had a very strong opening weekend (it beat Thor, Ant-Man, and Capt. America's raw opening numbers), I don't think her opinions have hurt it one bit. I also think Brie Larson has a better grasp of the entertainment industry than you do.
69
I’m a movie goer and I find refreshing her comments. And after have seen The Room this week I think she is a great actor and that is a reason to watch Captain Marvel.
If you feel alienated maybe you should do some soul searching and try to find out why a woman talking about a real issue that affects her, all woman and society makes you feel that way, I can see an opportunity to change a bias, use it.
Proudly feminist since 1974.
Saludos from Mexico City
51
@Jon Nordland what makes you think she doesn't know it will have impacts on the project? I don't think she's particularly surprised about the pushback she's gotten and if anything just validates her comments more
32
And yet again the cancer in our society can be traced to the overt misogyny of Fox News and the GOP. At a time when those far-right forces are rushing to brand Tucker Carson a "victim" for being called out as a vile misogynist, we should assume these noxious voices will continue to be amplified.
The problem isn't a movie about a woman. The problem isn't a movie about a strong, feminist woman. The problem is that Fox and the GOP seek to normalize and promote an outdated, abhorrent misogynistic worldview, and their under-educated followers gleefully take up the cause.
Rotten Tomatoes proves that media companies can successfully push back on these targeted attacks if they so choose. Facebook and Twitter should take note, and follow their lead.
216
@Todd
No, the problem is that Captain Marvel -- the comic book character -- was a man. By turning him into a woman, the film destroys the authenticity of the character. It has nothing to do with politics or Trump or Fox News or Tucker Carlson or misogyny. It has to do with the fact that transforming Captain Marvel into a woman makes for a bad film.
14
@HEJ - Captain Marvel's character was a woman in the 1982 version of the comic, and again in 2004, AND AGAIN in 2012. The film simply decided to use the current version of the character. I don't know what "authenticity" is being destroyed when the source material itself is identical.
157
@HEJ
The comic book character Captain Marvel was male, alien, female. Flooding Rotten Tomatoes with bad reviews definitely has to do with misogyny.
53
I wouldn't say "social justice warrior" is a pejorative for progressives. At least not generally. The majority of my views are progressive. (Like the majority of Americans I don't follow a monolithic, set dogma of political beliefs.) Even I use the term "SJW" in some instances to mean those who see everything and every interaction in society that doesn't mirror their ideal as a reason to be aggrieved. It's led me to have outrage burnout.
21
@Topher S then you don't use the term like most people do, who use it, generally (as you say) to mock or hate on people who work or speak against actions, speech, or laws that further marginalize disenfranchised people. What's funny is that those of us who *are* SJWs are proud to be working for social justice, so its use as a pejorative term is for naught.
9
@Topher S
Express resistance to misogyny online, in a gaming chatroom, and see how quickly you get labeled a “SJW.” Try swimming against the grain in the comment section on a site like quillette, for example, supposedly a site advocating open thought, and see how quickly you get attacked as “SJW.” Those venues may change your stated perspective, because as you say, that’s not you, but they’ll all call you that if you oppose them.
3
@Topher S
Using a word in your own way really doesn't help with facilitating communication (what words are for in the first place). SJW is a pejorative in general use.
5
It would help a lot if sites like Rotten Tomatoes would simply screen reviews to make sure that audience reviews at least seem to be reviews of the movie, and not simply attacks on, say, the lead actress.
8
@Dan Frazier
But that'd require paying people. Lots of people. At least until AI algorithms are advanced enough to accurately identify the subtleties of trolling and other internet attacks/bigotry.
I think that'd be a great idea, though. I just don't see it happening. Personally, I'd love to work from home making a living wage screening comments!
10
@Dan Frazier It would also help all of the discourse if you couldn't post your trash-talk anonymously. That's true on every social platform, not just Rotten Tomatoes. When you can hide behind a screen name, avatar, or outright alias, the spewing simply becomes outrageous. Would it stifle some commentary? Probably. Would that be a bad thing. Most likely not.
8
@Matt NYTimes screens comments for trolling. Why can't Rotten Tomatoes?
2
The problem is the likes of this:
"n her speech, Ms. Larson also revealed that the Sundance and Toronto film festivals had each pledged to set aside one-fifth of their press passes for use by diverse journalists, including women and people of color."
It really is becoming tedious beyond belief.
If it were just a matter of a female superhero, well, then, so what.
But the quota obsession is destroying everything that those of us who fought for civil rights were fighting for.
44
@Josh Hill systematic discrimination requires that rules in those systems push change through a society. The Civil Rights movement knew that. Quotas are one way of enforcing inclusion.
53
@Laura Or there could be reason for change beyond quota's, say talent or a market beyond the self-made one created through internet outrage for past injustice.
6
@adam
Past injustice? We live in a perfect Eden where everyone treats everyone else with dignity and respect? When did that happen?
16
There's nothing wrong with the actor's sentiment, I think it's an important one. It was the aloofness of her language that was problematic. Singling out '40-year-old-white-dudes' to be silenced and disregarded will of course make members of that identity bristle.
She may better understand if the lens were pointed in her direction, the question asked: why do we need another young white woman to play a superhero lead? How about a hero who's a person of color, one who perhaps for (please, just one single time!) isn't young... What about age and wisdom? And why must they always be attractive? Aren't we also tired of hearing attractive people's opinions? I hear them all day. They are the most privileged and most often wrongfully righteous...
Facetious, of course, but identity politics are a difficult game, and while one that needs to be played and rules ironed out, I think speaking of identities with respect, no matter your level of disdain for them, is a step in the right direction.
Most importantly: congrats to Rotten tomatoes for wresting control of their platform's reins...
117
@JayAre
I agree that the emphasis on good looks is part of the problem. That’s not the case in almost every other country, where those besides “beautiful” people act in movies.
11
@JayAre "40-year-old-white-dudes" is short hand to refer to larger issues of discrimination and under representation. Sort of like when someone refers to me as a "young chick" as short hand that I am incompetent and not worth being taken seriously.
23
@Laura-Indeed; I’m thrilled to see talented foreign actors with real faces working in exceptional quality films. A joy to watch!
7
We truly do have a long way to go. It amazes and depresses me how much misogyny is in the world, and a heavy contingent resides in the video game and fantasy/superhero universe. The "SJW" moniker always makes me grind my teeth but I guess that's the point - jeering, intentional misdirection, etc.
33
@Scribbles
What have many marginalized groups done with pejoratives? Reclaimed them! :)
I wear "SJW" with honor because it means that I am a person who fights for justice for everyone, an outcome I think is excellent and worthwhile! They can try to throw that at me to try to cut me down, but I simply smile and say "Why, yes I am, thank you!"
15
Good for Rotten Tomato's and a hearty Huzzah! for Ms. Larson. Although I am not a fan of Marvel and comic genre in film, I had read of the attempts sour ticket sales by the likes of has-beens crusty like James Woods et al who feel their masculinity threatened by comments made by the star of the film.
23
My eleven year old son was playing Fortnite with his friends the other day. I heard him say, "And what's wrong with being a girl?" A moment later he said, "That's not what gay is!"
Ugh. I guess I should be happy that at least he defended girls. (He had chosen to be a female in the game that day, which apparently is verboten in the world of male tweens.) I told him I was happy that he stood up for his beliefs in front of his friends and suggested that the next time he also add, "And there's nothing wrong with being gay either."
We've got a long way to go.
143
@bellhop
I don't understand what your son said wrong. Presumably his friends responded to "And what's wrong with being a girl?" with "That's gay." To which he said, "That's not what gay is!" He's correct. Pretending to be a girl isn't gay.
18
bellhop,
My freshman year of high school, I was assigned a gym locker next to some athletes. I’ll never forget the day when one of them made a super disparaging comment about gay men and Jeff, the star basketball player, without missing a beat, told him not to say that, that their mutual friend’s older brother was gay, and that he was a good guy. It was all the more surprising because he couldn’t have known I was gay; I was still deeply closeted. But it had a big impact on how I felt about myself and how safe/comfortable I felt at my school.
Straight guys tend to be more homophobic than women, and unfortunately a lot of them are afraid that standing up for gay guys will invite speculation about and ridicule of their own sexuality. It’s a big deal when one of them says something, especially if he doesn’t know that someone affected by it is listening. You should be really proud of your son. Please thank him for me.
12
It appears that their efforts at Rotten Tomato have balanced the ratings to an accurate assessment (ie, one of the bottom tier Marvel movie attempts). Both the viewers and the critics are converging on a rating somewhere between 60% and 80%; indicating a flawed movie that nevertheless has some entertainment value.
3
@Stefan
Nothing wrong with an entertaining movie. Spend a few bucks; have a few fun hours. Never understood people who think they are going to find enlightenment or validation in a 2 hour movie.
8