Trump as Carter? What are you smoking? Must be good.
But yeah, Bernie is just as much a fraud as the Gipper.
3
The sooner any or all of the Democrats running for president get their answers together for the SOCIALISM!!! onslaught of right wing pundits and Fox News talking heads, the sooner they will diffuse them. When Democrats are asked if they are capitalists or socialists they should answer simply and succinctly. They should say they are for regulated capitalism that doesn't allow companies who make billions of dollars to not pay their fair share of taxes. They should also mention they are not for a capitalist society where millions of dollars go to subsidize corporations who don't need the help. Next, they should ALWAYS say they are for Democratic Socialist programs and policies we already have in place that are hugely beneficial. Military/Defense, Highways/Roads, Public Libraries, Police, Fire Departments, Postal Service, Farm Subsidies, Social Security, Public Schools, Veteran's Health Care, Sewer Systems, Medicare, The Court System, The G.I. Bill, The Pentagon, Medicaid, Unemployment Insurance, FEMA, The Department Of Homeland Security, Secret Service, are all government - run, taxpayer funded Socialist programs, agencies and laws. Capitalism and Democratic Socialism are BOTH already here. Telling this to the American electorate every time a right wing tool drops the Socialism bomb would take the wind right out of their sails.
9
How about we compare Reagan to Trump. Intellectually disengaged. Check. Pandering in simple slogans. Check. Using race baiting for votes. Check. Cutting taxes on the wealthy while raising the debt and slashing social benefits. Check. Mindless ineffective military spending at the cost of valid military spending. Check. Slamming predecessor’s successful diplomatic and military achievements while proving weak and cowardly in one’s own. Check. Obstruction of justice and lying to Congress. Check. Stealing funds and directing them as one pleases undercutting Congressional authority. Check. Catering to fossil fuels while cooking the globe. Check. Going “soft in the head.” TBD.
8
I cannot believe that you insulted Carter comparing him to Trump . I read that this am and was nearly shocked that anyone would do this let alone a man who writes For the New York Times .
Now it’s been hours since I first read it and I still can’t believe it .really!
4
I believe one thing to be certain should Sanders ascend to the presidency, and that is the entertainment value would be just as great as it has been under Trump. In our entertainment- and media-obsessed culture, a good bit of the electorate would find that satisfying.
2
The analogy falls apart when we get to actual governing. In 1980, the Republicans took the Senate (53-47). It's not highly likely that the Senate will go Democratic in 2020. And note the "53": even with the small majority, Reagan didn't face the threat of filibusters that a Sanders White House (even if the Dems take the Senate) would face, nor would we see as many (any?) Republicans crossing the aisle as Democrats did in support of Reagan.
Sanders would not be transformative simply because the Republicans would thwart him at every turn.
1
Wow interesting thoughts. I especially liked the point that 77 is the mean as 69 was when Reagan was elected. I love truth tellers like Bernie, especially Bernie. But I never had the belief that he could actually win the whole thing. This op-Ed has me thinking differently.
6
If Bernie ran against Trump, many Trumpsters (who correctly want money out of politics and no more foreign wars and no corporate socialism and a $15+/min wage) would vote Bernie, but not one Bernie socialist vote would ever go to Trump.
That leaves the middle, which is all Democrat and Independents (since 90% of Republicans support Trump).
Very few in the middle would go to Trump. Bernie would get about 80%, including half the non/never-Trump Republicans and just about all the Independents (because otherwise they'd be Trumpsters, not Independents).
Since there are many more Independents than Democrats, and many more Democrats than Republicans, that a big win for Bernie.
* By the way, let's remember that Bernie is a registered Independent - the largest by far of the Three political parties. Strange that no one ever mentions that. Bernie really can't lose.
Bernie would get those turncoat Electoral College states Hillary lost (because he previously won them, except PA, in the 2016 primary).
The 2016 Bernie would have beaten Hillary, but he ran out of time - now he's in even more demand, and with greater name recognition.
Bernie has no equal for ginning up Turnout, or pulling in first-time and non-voters. He has a huge reserve; Trump has none at all. There's not a single person who'd vote Trump now who did not vote Trump previously.
That means Bernie would beat Trump, and we'd also get both the Senate and our future back.
I predict a Landslide for Bernie.
12
The MSM gave Sanders a complete pass during the primaries in 2016. The positive press that he received outnumbered by many times any positives that may have drifted Hillary's way. The Press was just too chomping at the bit to cover a fight in the Democratic Party. They were too happy to stress the superdelegates and the prejudices of the DNC as opposed to the fact that Sanders was only winning caucuses and that three million more of us long time Democrats preferred Hillary over Sanders. I am begging the press this time around to give Sanders the scrutiny that he never got 4 years ago. You guys let him get away with so many ridiculous statements. Seriously, calling McConnell to the window to look at a million screaming kids was going to make him change his mind because he'd be scared for his job. He said that to Chris Matthews and to the Los Angeles Times editorial board. Please this time around do your job as journalists.
2
Once again, Mr. Douthat trolls the Democratic Party for the GOP.
2
Democrats like this opinion writer and this news paper are showing more and more they are desperate.
Sanders had his turn, but the chance was stolen by the NYT’s darling Hillary Clinton.
Debbie Waserman gave Hillary the nomination before the race started by gifting her the Super Delegates, without which, Sanders would have won the nomination.
Yet the NYT forgot to investigate that juicy bit because you parroted Hillary, or as she was called by your writers, ‘queen Hillary’, as the next president before the race begun.
That was his chance, burnt to a cinders which were fueled by you.
Now that you’re desperate, you are now ready to sing praises to the guy you helped defeat.
He’s done, move on. And so should all of us do as well.
3
@AutumnLeaf
That flame still burns - and brighter than ever now that it's needed more than ever.
2
Republican Party hack to do list.
Socialism socialism socialism.
Repeat.
Repeat.
Repeat.
The beast president worshipped by republicans not only raw dogs porn stars to celebrate his son’s birth, but hangs with Chinese Communist Party assets who sex traffic and influence sell to the billionaire crowd, loves and is played for a fool by a family murdering Korean dictator ready to nuke the US, trashes the constitution as what is that Douthat word... Caesar, is played for a fool by the Chinese Party communist dictator, is played for a fool by the Russian assassain, works to destroy the NATO and the free trade put together by generations of republicans, makes up fantasies about immigrants as a national emergency..,
What what is that Douthat you have something important to say ?? ?
Socialism socislism socialism.
Good boy. So virtuous.
I Doubt that Douthat knows what he is talking about! Convoluted nonsense is what it is. No more believable than his usual blather about the wonders of the mafia-like Catholic church!
5
It's hard to believe you'd sully the name of Jimmy Carter by comparing him to a felon with no moral standards and a low IQ. Really, quite outrageous.
5
Ross tooth out sorry that’s how my voice recognition typed your name ha ha. What a maroon don’t even start to compare trump with Carter. One a truly spiritual man the other an abomination. I think you might’ve lost any little respect you had from liberals.
3
like the comment by Nial McCabe below,
i add this : Isn’t it about time the NY Times
elevates its level of opionion writing on the conservative side by transferring Douthat
(, whose poorly informed musings on the very dogma of his self proclaimed concerned devout cathoicism , his obsessions within that,
prove he is unable to accurately discern )
to writing about somethng within his cognitive grasp? I thank Mr McCabe for eliquently stating the obvious. Also, Douthat is an easy mark for the long con game of corporate thought conditioning.
1
Trump = Carter. How can this analogy hit the front pages of this venerable newspaper? Why are you demeaning yourself in this way, New York Times?
3
An empty column filled with historical inaccuracies and sloppy inference.
1
Just when I thought hallucinogens were illegal, here comes Douthat with another doozy of a fever dream.
1
I find these disgraceful comparisons a total insult on the characters of Jimmy Carter and Bernie Sanders, two men of integrity, wisdom and progressive ideas. To dare to compare them to Reagan, a racist, dishonest, and senile baffoon and Trump an incompetent grifter, mentally unstable crook is the heigth of hipocrisy. Shame on you NYT for even publishing this trash!
5
Mr. Douthat just endorsed Bernie for President, which proves Bernie's universal appeal.
Will the Editorial Board follow?
5
Funny how all the Readers who can't handle the Sanders-Reagan analogy --the real meat of the article-- and the pro-Bernie tilt Douthat brings to it, fixate on the Carter-Trump analogy, which is mostly there to get things going..
4
Trump doesn't have a hopeless chance of winning the 2020 election. Unless...
Maybe if the stealthy Republican pundits can mesmerize the Democratic voters into nominating Bernie or maybe even AOC - divide and conquer, I always say - then maybe a sterling character like Chris Christie, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio, Rick Scott, Ron DeSantis, Ben Carson, Ted Cruz, Rick Perry - statesmen, frogmen, intellectuals, foreign-policy experts, businessman, lawyers, sycophants all - might steal the presidency...kind of a "W" type deal.
Republicans would love to see Bernie Sanders running as the Democratic Party candidate, if only...
Sorry. I just don't trust Bernie or his fanatical cohorts who helped Clinton lose the election.
For all her ties to this and that , she was far more liberal and policy oriented than Bernie.
We need someone who can put this fractured government back together, including it's institutions.
Bernie is too old and obstreperous to do it, I think.
Warren or Harris ( in that order) for me!
You lost me at "if Trump is a Carter figure". There's no resemblance. Trump is a foul-mouthed idiot and Carter was an honorable man trying to handle a crisis beyond his control.
5
Ross Douthat, Capitalism's Martin Shkreli?
2
One striking difference: one is a corrupt, treasonous money launderer working for a hostile nation
Ross, if you torture these metaphors any harder, I'm calling the cops on you.
4
"Though personally the two men are ever so slightly different..."
Huh? Is this a typo or sarcasm?
2
I see the DNC's paper of record is ramping up its coordinated smear campaign....must be time for me to send another check to Bernie.
3
Yes history books are filled with the great porn star scandals of the Carter years. It's hard to tell the two of them apart.
7
Journalists, grow up!
Once and for all, Bernie Sanders is NOT a socialist!
NYT editors, please strike this out every time it appears, or put it in quotation marks, at the least.
2
What stupid binary comparisons. Look, folks, Cons are trying really hard to hand Socialism around the neck of every single Democrat.
Socialism will not win elections in America no matter how much you love Bernie.
1
Too old? Check
Too Jewish? Check
Too white? Check
Too male? Check
Too many homes? Check
1
Among your many qualities, I never before detected impishness. I welcome its presence in your current column, along with a healthy dose of Rooseveltian Happy-Warriorism. A little joy in the contest is most welcome!
1
THANK YOU, Ross. Finally, someone wrote the obvious.
Amazing that the NYT actually published this article!
1
Could there conceivably be a whiff of cynicism in this suggestion? (Even if the analysis is in some ways correct.)
Jimmy Carter who now builds homes for the poor. Close to godliness.
Donald Trump who thinks of only himself and material things. Close to satanic.
11
Yes! Yes! Yes! What us Bernie supporters have been screaming for decades now! Stop being Republican lite, proudly defend liberalism and the New Deal, all the while privately be dirtier and nastier then the Republicans AND YOU WIN!!! FDR showed us the way and FDR’s tactics were just as valid then as they are now!!!
10
@Paul.rodgers
Decades???
Ross:
It really bothers me that the media, yourself included, continue to label politicians left and right wing. Left-wing compared to what? The GOP is left-wing compared to the Nazi party of the 1930's.
Bernie is certainly to the left of today's GOP. But taking a more global view, Bernie is a centrist candidate while the GOP is an authoritarian, fascist-leaning, reactionary party.
Why can't the media just use the correct terms? Progressive and Conservative.
I'd also like to see the media retire the words "socialism" and "socialist" as most Americans cannot accurately define these terms, often equating socialism with communism.
Progressives are not anti-capitalists. They are not communists either. In place of socialism why not collectivism or public?
In poll after poll, just like with Obamacare, the majority of Americans are in favor of socialist policies. Publicly funded national health care. Publicly funded higher education. Defined National Holidays.
But then ask Americans if they favor Socialism and they are overwhelmingly against it.
Just like Obamacare. Polls say we like what's inside the box while hating the box itself.
9
Oh please. Since when do we call Canada a socialist country? Or England? We don't. We call them Democracies that just happen to guarantee their citizens health care. It's Republicans who are beating and beating the socialist drum. We're all supposed to get so used to the term vis a vis articles like this that the press and the public just take it for granted that Democrats are all Socialists now.
Maybe you people could give it a rest. Y'all are just flogging us to death with your messaging.
11
Are you encouraging the Democratic party to lose in 2020?
Thanks, Ross. I needed a good laugh.
Bernie Sanders or Larry David...both make me laugh
And Henry Louis Gates just discovered that by their DNA they are cousins!
Given all the past columns from Douthat, one can only draw the conclusion that he wants Sanders to be the nominee because he thinks he would probably lose. Ross sometimes criticizes Trump, but usually there is also a Democrat that he's slamming as well.
I truly believe he would rather have Trump than Sanders.
The most important issue for the 2020 election is to be certain that Donald John Trump is not reelected! The issues preached by some democratic candidates such as Medicare for All, $15/hour minimum wage, and Free Public College Education are admirable goals; HOWEVER, THEY PALE IN COMPARISON TO ESSENTIAL NECESSITY TO REMOVE TRUMP FROM THE OVAL OFFICE. This applies equally to the people in his cabinet and especially to John Bolton, and Mike Pompeo.
I'm appalled, but not surprised, that Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren have thrown their hats into the ring. They are possible nominees, but they are both totally unelectable. President Trump has already started shouting the words that would be used in the campaign to deny them election; SOCIALIST and COMMUNIST! The USA citizenry has been brainwashed for over a century that these two economic and political systems are evil.
I'm a 76 year old physicist, retired after 38 years from Los Alamos National Laboratory; my field provided me the opportunity to live, work, and travel in over 50 countries. I spent over 20 years in countries that have versions of Democratic Socialism, or its cousin, Social Democracy. I consider these systems better than the present one in the USA that I consider a Capitalist Oligarchy, not a true Democracy.
Yes, I would hope the USA will eventually adopt many of the ideas that Bernie and Elizabeth advocate, and become a more peaceful and humane member of the World Community.
2
@Dr. T. Douglas Reilly I'm confused. You state that Bernie and Warren are "totally unelectable" then state that their policies are policies that are working throughout the world. You continue by saying we are a capitalist oligarchy and not a true democracy. What exactly was your point? I've traveled extensively around the world, too and see what benefits social democracies have for the majority of their citizens.
Furthermore, our children and grandchildren do not have time to wait for your, "hope" that the U.S. will eventually adopt many of Bernie and Warren's issues. When exactly would their policies be acceptable for you? Time to send another $27 to support the person who has never wavered in his beliefs and who refuses PAC money. Gp get em, Bernie
2
He's the one who genuinely loves and is loved by his supporters. The working class has vague memories of a long dormant class consciousness, and Bernie is reminding us that bringing the most leverage to the table is the way the system is supposed to work. Power is out of balance and the zen thing to do would be to check the power of wealth with the power of the collective will.
11
Are the Old Bernie supporters bros or bots? Hard/impossible to believe they want this Old man to be the Democratic Party's nominee.
@Pecan I'm a 52 year old woman who sends "Old Bernie" $27 at least once a month. Definitely not a bro or bot and hoping his progressive policies get the nomination.
6
@Sue Salvesen
And if the non-Democrat fails to get the Democratic Party's nomination, will you vote for Trump again?
Well, it's obvious you aren't willing to admit that Reagan was a terrible person who - during his acting days in Hollywood - ratted out fellow actors during the McCarthy era, and then he was implicated in Iran-Contra.
Why don't you ask the farmers' wives who survived Iran-Contra what they think of your iconic figure, St. Ronald.
7
Bernie, if he runs and is dubbed as a "socialist" need only point out that Turmp has been "antisocial-ist."
4
Can anyone explain what Bernie Sanders foreign policy is? Reagan had Russia to stand up to. Bernie, despite being Jewish will lose the pro-Israel vote. Will he be more isolationist even than Trump? Too busy rebuilding the American welfare state? Sanders can do wonders domestically but like Carter he may not have a clue about how to deal with foreign intrigue.
@Carl Hultberg,
That anyone is always a mouse click away.
Let me help you...
https://www.vox.com/world/2017/9/21/16345600/bernie-sanders-full-text-transcript-foreign-policy-speech-Westminster
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/sanders-speaks-on-foreign-policy/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=3&v=kxvP6jDtt4c
There you go. Easy. Text and video.
Give them a whirl. He's got some great stuff.
5
Reagan's presidency a success. If you consider the speeding up of the economic disparity of rich and poor and the downward march of the middle class as successes, then it was successful.
6
@John Smith Don't forget the dismantling of unions and their power. Reagan was terrible for workers.
2
The Republicans can continue to try to bludgeon the Democrats as socialists in the Bolshevik sense all they want. The problem they face with Sanders is that he can defend himself, hurl insults back, or effectively ignore them altogether. With his confidence in what he stands for he can make a monkey out of Trump pretty easily. Unfortunately, Hillary had trouble fighting back on the 3000 emails that Trump effectively devastated her with. Sanders can and will fight back - be assured of that.
Don't forget that when Rubio and Cruz ganged up on Trump in the last debate or two it appeared as though they had the old man begging for the fight to stop as he was up against the ropes. Unfortunately, they applied their assault too late.
3
I'd rather see Colonel Sanders as President than Bernie Sanders.
2
This is Ross trying on his best Obi-Wan with poor man's Jedi mind tricks.
No. Bernie isn't anything. He's an almost 80 year old kook, riding on the coat tails of a movement that exists without him. He's the worst possible nominee, except for possibly Warren.
These aren't the dems you're looking for. We can go about our business. Move along.
2
Sanders - Warren or Sanders - Harris. Either one wins in a landslide.
3
Refreshing to see the NYT allow an opinion in favor of Bernie and his progressive ideas. The reason I support Bernie is because he has never wavered from his values, which are mine. He does not accept PAC money or influence from the rich. He is consistent, trustworthy, and extremely intelligent on the issues we need to address to transform this nation from a plutocracy to a democratic republic. Go get em, Bernie!
4
If the USA doesn't elect a president & congress that is progressive (in the spirit of the 2 Roosevelts), then it is game over; the oligarchs win and everyone else can just look out for themselves. I am so glad I got out of Dodge in 2001. I have one living sibling who is 57, single and living in the SW USA. He is holding out for 62 when he will be eligible for Social Security, and then he will emigrate here. He can enjoy retirement. If he stays in the USA, he says "I will never be able to afford not to work...I'll die working". So sad. I already see other family members who are in their 70's and still working in the USA...not because they love working...because they'd be homeless if they didn't.
8
Socialism does contend with right wing populism. A large chunk of the electorate wants both - new deal style job creation, expansion of health insurance AND immigrants out, women’s rights curtailed etc. That is not something Bernie offers
2
Oh Douthat, you are playing the troll I suspect by pumping up the left wing of the Democratic party (which you abhor)and positing an absurd analogy between Carter and Trump. Unlike those here under 45, I actually lived through both Ford and Carter administrations, then the 1980 election.
I also have less than fond memories of the one time the hard left seized the reins and nominated McGovern at 2 AM. He suffered an historic blowout to tricky Dick Nixon.
What poll by any reputable polling firm says we are a majority liberal country, much less a democratic socialist country? None, nada. Neither are we a hard right country. We are in fact a moderate country as every poll demonstrates. Our majority in the House (media dissembling notwithstanding) is built upon moderate center-left liberals winning red districts gerrymandered in some cases against them. Hard facts the leftist dreamers do not want to deal with.
For the hard left it is something analogous to a secular religion. Don't bother them with contrary facts, we have our beliefs and we are passionate about them. The zealotry of a medieval Catholic prelate hunting heretics or a Puritan in the old Bay State colony hunting witches or Quakers. Minds are closed, passions control. But we need to win, not for party but for country.
That will not be true with the hard left rampant. Realism not self-delusion.
I find it unbelievable how many commenters don't understand Ross' analogy betwixt Trump and Carter. And I not only have great respect for Carter and loathe Trump, but am a die-hard Bernie supporter. The outrage-industrial complex has infected both left and right -- and reading comprehension ain't what it used to be.
7
This article strikes me as spot on in exposing the problem with "electability" considerations raised by the moderate wing of the Democratic Party against Sanders and other progressives. All the writing on the wall indicates that we're at point where the political paradigm is dramatically shifting--much as it did with the election of FDR and the beginning of the New Deal, or with Reagan's election. To think otherwise is, I fear, to remain wedded to criteria of electability that no longer apply.
Still, not convinced Sanders is the ideal candidate. Also, I'm unsure why the fact that both Reagan and Sanders are old is a relevant similarity...
Wrt the parallels between Carter and Trump, I don't think Douthat's point is that the two are similar in terms of temperament, character, intellect, etc. Rather, the idea is that there are some broad structural similarities between the state of the Republican Party today, and the state of the Democratic Party during Carter. That may be correct, all of Trump and Carter's myriad differences notwithstanding. (But I admit, I've also been unaware that people have been comparing Trump and Carter since the beginning of Trump's presidency...)
Yes, the biggest difference is that, despite their politics, both Carter and Reagan were honorable people of excellent character. Trump is not about politics. His only constituent is himself. As far as I can tell, none of the Democratic candidates is as cynical or corrupt or mendacious as Trump is.
29
@Jim Linnane,
Sorry, but "honorable" Reagan...HA!
By the end of his term, 138 Reagan administration officials had been convicted, had been indicted, or had been the subject of official investigations for official misconduct and/or criminal violations. In terms of number of officials involved, the record of his administration was the worst ever. Bush the Lesser gave him a run for crookedness. But Trump may top them all.
No, Reagan was an actor playing Pres. He was a grifting crook, like the current occupant of the Whitehouse.
http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/Reasonable/Reagan.html
8
@Jim Linnane
Re: Trump I agree with your assessment. However, the bar is low in that regard, and there is a remarkable and fascinating degree of opportunism being displayed by a number of the leading Democratic candidates.
1
"Though personally the two men are ever so slightly different..."
Was that sarcasm Mr. Douthat? I certainly hope so, because I cannot think of two other modern-day politicians that are more different that Carter and Trump. In every meaningful way these men are polar opposites.
If your comparison was meant as humor, it failed miserably. If it was made in earnest, then it is possibly the most disrespectful thing that has ever been written about a truly great man. You should be ashamed of yourself.
2
Ross, this is just so contrived. How do you think Agent Orange would handle nuclear physics? I think the much better parallel was made be Tom Brokaw in his op ed the other day.
1
Yes!
1
Interesting, but I believe this column amounts to Douthat trolling the left.
2
In your dreams.
I don't know why everyone talks about socialism as an economic system. Democracy is a social program, as well as public school education and even the military (I don't see people buying their own missile defense systems for their backyard).
Right now, we have deficit of democracy as Republicans have transformed us into a client-state - selling policies to the highest bidder. Example: Medicare Part D sold to drug companies who can charge taxpayers any amount without negotiations. The latter proves that socialism is not against capitalism, but it is against crony capitalism. When we had more democratic accountability in our political system we had an economic system that worked for everyone. We are not presented this view of socialism in most media outlets because they are owned by crony capitalists - the same shareholders who own news outlets also are shareholders of drug companies, big banks, etc. Concentration of wealth obviously leads to concentration of political power, but what is forgotten is that wealth concentration also leads to media power to brainwash and manipulate many to vote against their interests, or divide-and-conquer the electorate who actually agree on many issues (close budget deficits, negotiate on drug prices, fix the opiate epidemic, regulate big banks, build infrastructure, etc...) And socialism is also presented with Venezuela, which is not socialist, but ignores countries like Denmark and Sweden.
2
Being registered GOP, I can’t vote for Bernie in the primary. I would vote for him, though, in the general election. Or Biden. Or Warren. Or Harris. Or any competent adult, actually.
4
@ThePB,
Of course you can.
Change your registration.
It's easy. Especially in Ca.
2
Um, how about changing your party affiliation? Can’t you do that in California?
For goodness' sake. He's not a socialist. Neither is anyone who has so far announced their candidacy.
4
@Albert K Henning So, bernie was lying when he shouted out in the 2014 Move On conference that he was not a Democrat, he was a socialist?
2
Historical analogies are always difficult . I read one today that made the case for this being a repeat of 1972 where the Democrats frustrated at their loss in 1968 when they nominated a safe moderate, establishment candidate went full left wing and paid dearly for it. There were problems with that one Nixon had some foreign policy successes though the economy had issues though mostly with inflation. Trump may have a better economy but I think he is less trusted than Nixon which is hard to do. It will be interesting to see how well Sanders would do if he wins the Democratic nomination. Will Suburban voters go back to the Republicans. What about rich Progressives do they really want to see their taxes go up .
1
I don't get the reference to Reagan but I don't think that Sanders would be doing the left a favor by running for president again.
I am also not a fan of Ross Douthat so I don't understand his thinking at any time!
We need to let the normal processes occur before we decide who can best beat Trump.
5
I think Mr. Douthat likes some of what Bernie supports.
2
@Ed Naw, I think he likes that if Dems elect bernie, trump gets a second chance to totally destroy the country.
1
In most other first world democracies, Bernie Sanders and the policies he talks about, including universal healthcare, would generally fit into the center of the political spectrum, leaning a bit left.
In America, the center line is hugely to the right of the rest of the world, which makes Sanders look like something of a socialist radical.
A coconut just off the tree would beat Trump in most other places in the world. But . . . . in America, I'm not convinced Sanders is a shoe-in to beat Trump given Republicans are seemingly master salesmen in convincing vast swaths of the electorate to vote against their own self-interests.
3
Amen. Many of us have been languishing for Bernie Sanders for the past 2 to 3 years. When he speaks it is like oxygen in the room for an otherwise oppressed populous.
Don't think we are oppressed? Not in the Lenin, Stalin sense. But what do you call insurance rates, pharmaceutical costs, housing, too low wages, higher education for the kids, insufficient retirement income, etc., the constant effort to balance one need against the other without falling through the hole in the floor.
8
My no longer secret hope is that Sanders is in private talks with Sherrod Brown to have Brown run as his VP.
"Left", "Right" and "Center" no longer apply, not since the rise of populism. Trump and Sanders ran with "Populist" style, though with Trump it clearly ended at style. Sanders, on the other hand, is the real thing. This was recognized during the primaries, by the swing voters in the key swing states (PA, WI, MI, OH, FL) that decided the elections.
In April-May 2016 Quinnipiac ran several polls comparing a Trump/Sanders contest to a Trump/Clinton contest, in PA, OH and FL. In EVERY case, Sanders had a larger winning margin than Clinton. He clearly spoke a message that resonated with those swing voters who eventually opted for Trump over Clinton, or didn't vote at all, or went 3rd party.
EVERY presidential election in our lifetimes has hinged on who can persuade those swing voters to get off the fence, either to the Left or the Right. It's simply the way the Electoral College works.
I firmly believe Sanders can do it, especially if he teams up early with the right partner.
Quinnipiac polls:
https://poll.qu.edu/2016-presidential-swing-state-polls/release-detail?releaseid=2345
5
Can we please stop calling what Bernie and other progressives want is Socialism! Socialism is a form of government where the central (federal) system manages and owns the means of production and allocates everything accordingly. This is so far away from the model we are presenting.
What we are advocating is a curb on unfettered oligarchism. It isn't even capitalism that the right espouses. Capitalism needs to have unfettered asccess to the markets and many competitors in all markets. What we have is an economy run by the few for the benefit of the few. This is oligarchism.
What we call what we are supporting has real consequences. Lets get it right so those who want to see what it is we are all about can find the correct answers on google or wherever else they look. What we want is managed free market economies which provide fair distribution for all with safety nets for those who need them. Keep production and the markets intact. Just make them more fair to all and make all who engage in production get a fair return for their efforts.
This is the Managed Free Market and Democracy.
9
The very first sentence is from the '-said nobody, ever' file.
3
Bernie Sanders promotion by a Republican - it feels like 2016 all over again.
1
I appreciate your rather positive emphasis on Bernie. I really do.
But if you’ve called Senator Sanders a socialist—instead of the proper democratic socialist—simply or primarily to play troll, then in my estimation you’ve committed a low blow unworthy of serious public intellectual discourse. For there is a world of difference between a socialist and a democratic socialist—and you know it, I’m sure. That’s why I find your play contemptible at best and unethical at worst. For it smacks of willful dishonesty, and, if the proverbial tables were turned, you yourself would rightly cry foul.
5
@Professor62 Sorry, but bernie himself called himself a socialist at the MoveOn conference in 2014 in D.C. he didn't say democratic socialist. He very clearly shouted out:
"I am not a Democrat! I am a socialist!"
1
"personally the two men are ever so slightly different"
I hope that was meant as a wry comment.
4
I know people say we only read those who we agree with nowadays, but I always read Ross. And he's always full of it.
2
No matter who gets the Dem nomination, I hope he/she will be smart enough not to trot out speakers at the convention who are '"Identity Politics" people. At the 2016 convention I, a Democrat, remember thinking - "Where is a middle class white guy? Or woman? Or regular working people?" It's nice and right, to speak for everyone in this country no matter race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. But guess what, there are caucasians too, and they're still the majority. And, oh yes, there are lots and lots of heterosexuals too. Oops, have I said something insulting?
Please stop with the identity politics. It's ridiculous and self defeating. (As in the motion passed by the House this week wherein the motion which would have decryed "Anti-Semitism" wasn't enough and every other "injured" group insisted on being added.)
1
@leftrightmiddle
Excuse me? You missed the middle class white people heading the Democratic ticket?
HRC and Tim Kaine are what? Orange?
1
It must be fun writing an Opinion column if you like playing chess with yourself. You can set up any scenario you like. Then if you are a conservative you can work it to try to fool the liberals. If you are a good writer with a thesaurus at hand (we love big words) you can offer advice not ment help, but confuse. Come hear a tale of yesteryear when Ronald Reagan was a liberal and everybody was happy. He was fighting Communism and Socialism we all washed our hands before dinner and snapped to attention when Aunt Bea gave us the stink eye. But you been telling the wrong story again Ross we have been living in Potterville as if George Bailey had never been born.
I took a walk with a friend and our dogs this morning. He has made large charitable contributions for years, and is very well read. A good guy. We talked about 2020. He would happily vote for Biden or Klobuchar, but Sanders, a bridge too far. He can’t get over the comment that Venezuela is where the American Dream lives. He also believes that a Sanders Presidency would result in massive tax increases and spending and tank the economy. He would vote for a third party candidate if the choice is Trump Sanders. A one person anecdote, I know. I suspect there are many like him.
4
"Nor does he need to adopt the strident tone of younger would-be revolutionaries or the politicians pandering to them to prove his socialist bona fides." You really think Bernie isn't strident? He is the most angry, strident person I've seen on the presidential trail yet.
We need a real change from Trump. But Bernie isn't it.
4
Bernie draws crowds and has a good chance of beating Trump on the stump and in debates. He is too well known for Trump's lies to stick, and can attract those non-evangelical Republicans who are embarrassed by Trump. Bernie project a strong sense of "what you see is what you get", and that sentiment is important when, alone in the voting booth, you cast your vote.
6
@Matt-in-maine I see bernie as an opportunist.
2
". . . with Trump weak and Carteresque, . . ." That you for that, Ross. Savoring that slight puts a spring in my step and a song in my heart.
Again, this is such a waste of time when we have a group of people greedily attacking our environmental laws, banking laws, stripping healthcare and education, and pushing the debt to levels never before seen. Bernie will not get the nomination, so who really cares except those who want to muddy the waters in order to get either the present con artist re-elected, or another like him in there. Time for the Democrats to stop infighting and become a party of stability.
4
My goodness! "If Trump is a Carter figure, there’s an obvious candidate to play the Gipper." Let's analyze that logically. Trump is as far from being a Carter figure as the birth of the universe is from now. So, the second clause is meaningless. "Bernie Sanders, Socialism’s Reagan?" Destroying unions? Turning our government into the enemy of the people? (Deliberate reference to Ibsen.) Conspiring with enemies in Iran? Financing a forbidden attempt to overthrow a foreign government in Nicaragua? Douthat has outdone himself. I didn't think it was possible.
2
All government is socialist in some way or other. Bernie Sanders advocates moving the US ball in the direction of "more socialism" from where it is now. The policy proposals in play all have merit, but they can only come to pass IF they can be combined with taxing the rich roughly as much as they were during the Eisenhower years.
In my opinion, it is a grave tactical error to assume that all of the broad coalition wanting to remove the immoral and incompetent Donald Trump from office also will go along with that kind of tax increase.
For now, what's needed is a candidate who has administrative experience; a former Governor, preferably with experience in disaster recovery.
1
I cannot imagine why a Democrat would prefer some milquetoast centrist, or one of the Bernie Lites, when they could have the real thing. Bernie's a hella better Democrat than most "real" Democrats.
6
@Lisa bernie has only been a Democrat for the short time it took for Democrats to reject him. He would get some respect if he ran as either the Independent he has been in congressional records, or as the socialist he has loudly shouted he is.
2
It is no more valid to claim that Sanders wants to turn the US into a socialist state, then to say Trump wants America to become Germany, circa 1939. Come to think of it...
So the Democratic Party has finally reached the point where the old class warrior, feel-at-home in the Soviet Union Bernie Sanders is a moderate candidate, compared to young revolutionaries...
And the USA has finally reached the point where it will might have to choose between Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump, the lover of autocrats everywhere, Putin’s best friend, the would-be dismantler of NATO.
As an immigrant coming from a former communist country, it makes me wonder if it was worth it. Maybe good old Nikita Khroushev was right after all: “we will burry you”.
"If Trump is a Carter figure, there’s an obvious candidate to play the Gipper?"
Well, that was fun, but, seriously, if Trump is no way a Carter figure and we are talking about leading the nation not casting a skit at summer camp, who is the best Democratic candidate?
2
"Bernie Sanders, Socialism's Reagan?"
That's a scary thought. Look at what Reagan's revolution has given us: Lousy schools. Horrible roads and unsafe bridges. Universities filled with the children of the rich. Unaffordable health care. No pensions. 40% can't afford a single $400 health care emergency. Epic societal division. And now the very worst president we have ever had.
America doesn't need another extremist, ideological movement and personality cult, of any political persuasion. The slow-motion train wreck and hot mess that is our own rightwing extremist un-factual counter-democratic movement should be a warning to us all.
"If Trump is a Carter figure, ..."
Structural similarities aside, there is something extraordinarily vile about using those two names in the same sentence.
2
Any comment that begins "As a lifelong Democrat..." and then goes on to attack those Democrats who are actually energizing the party is a comment written by a closet conservative who is a "lifelong Democrat" the same way Bernie Madoff was a lifelong investment adviser.
4
Isn't a socialist one who believes the government should own all means of economic production? If that is the case, then Bernie Sanders is far from a socialist.
Sanders wants the government to essentially control the medical insurance industry and wants private interests, such as banks and corporations, to pay their fair share of taxes. It is hard to see how that is socialist. Better to call it a "fairer and more moral form of capitalism".
4
I’m rewording my earlier comment. After seeing it posted it sounded like I was putting down Bernie Sanders looks. I wasn’t.
In the television age of politics. Bernie Sanders occasional bad hair day compared with Reagan, an ex-Hollywood movie star, is not a good comparison.
We are in an era here Trump says he is for the little guy, but actually he is a "socialist" for billionaires. He is borrowing a trillion dollars a year to give away to the richest people in the country.
Why is Medicare for all and free college worse than ransoming the country for billionaires?
And you see that Trump wants to undermine Medicare and Medicaid so that his billionaire friends and contributors can own all of the country. And his tariffs are taxes on every consumer in the country making his tax cut a tax increase.
Why are so many complaining about Sanders wanting to care for the real people of the country? Why don't they attack Trump's endless welfare for billionaires? Which we will all have to pay for eventually.
5
Trump was also considered too extreme. His nomination and election were the greatest right-wing shock to the status quo we've seen in my lifetime. We're used to shock-jock politics now so Sanders' version of left-wing "extremism" (which is really isn't) is not so shocking. Trump has broken all the rules and opened the door to Sanders. I have a feeling Republicans' tactic of "smearing" Sanders and ANY Democrat with the "socialist" label is not going to work after they have enabled and protected Donald Trump's outrageous behavior.
4
Well I don't know if Sanders is Left Wing Reagan but I do know this: the pendulum has swung about as far right as it can without toppling the US.
So it's long past time we saw a swing back to sanity.
That means, back toward the Left.
PS: Sanders is not a "Socialist." Nor is he extreme. He is not so far left of a Tory in England, Ross.
It's just that Europeans take health and welfare of their citizens for granted, whereas Republicans in America are trying to steal everything we own, from our labor to our privacy to our right to healthcare and a secure, decent retirement.
Do we see huge numbers of homeless sick people in Europe? No we do not.
For pete's sake can we introduce a little sanity and compassion into our lives?
7
@Sophia
You do not have a right to healthcare.
Comparing Carter to Trump takes a leap across a swamp in terms of morality and intelligence that Douthat ignores. While Carter’s lack of effectiveness was highlighted by Reagan’s tax cut plan there are several important aspects of Carter’s Presidency that Trump couldn’t even dream of doing. 1. Restoring image to a Presidency. 2. 40 year long peace between Egypt/Israel and Jordan/Isr. 3. Natural Gas deregulation which probably boosted the economy more than the tax cuts the the Republicans take credit for. 4 peace during the hostage crisis(regardless of how he handled it)
If Carter’s rescue attempt worked and he realized that inflation let to rapid bracket creep we would never have had a Reagan Presidency until 1984
Now Reagan to Bernie takes some imagination. Maybe he can come up with a response like”There you go again, Donny” but not sure he can pull it off.
The problem with the Democrats that there are a lot of ideas that are out there than can be modified and redirected to the benefit of the many but are ignored because the started as conservative. Instead the are pushing too hard for a poorly thought out health plan that is mostly responsible for the rise of the Republican Party.
Instead the emotions are driving the party to the left just speaking louder. We need to be careful.
I think that if we vote for Sanders, Douthat will think he’s all powerful.
1
Venezuela's policies of Hugo Chavez closely mirror Bernie's roadmap and policies.
The days of prosperity, only a few years ago, had a capitalist system of freedom and human rights. Imperfect and some corruption, for sure. Yet, all were better off, with jobs, reasonable inflation, and abundant food. Now, starvation.
Capitalism ain't perfect but its far better than any alternatives, Bernie.
1
I don't see Trump or any Republicans trying to build a majority. Where are their policies to help the people who are struggling economically? What I see them doing is trying suppress the ability of the majority to vote or be represented if they do vote by gerrymandering. Why is voting in Georgia now being investigated? What are all these ID laws supposed to accomplish. And why is some purging of the voter rolls being questioned? And how come so many minority neighborhoods have a lack of polling booths? Even when a Democratic governor is elected Republican legislators try to strip them of their power as happened in North Carolina. And when all else fails pack the courts with right wing extremists as Trump is attempting to do.
1
Boy! Talk about a false dichotomy...but Trump IS the Gipper. Now, who is Carter?
1
Socialist! Socialist!
I see what you're doing.
1
Gobsmacked, by the crazy analogy of the first paragraph. Astounded by the 4 paragraphs that followed. Encouraged to click OFF, by whatever followed that.
2
Trump is to Carter what Bozo the Clown is to Albert Einstein.
Jimmy Carter was one of the most intelligent and decent human beings to become the POTUS.
Just his appointments of people like Brezinski as national security advisor, Harold Brown as Secretary of Defense and Cyrus Vance as Secretary of State
are sufficient to make the point. Compare them to the clown’s appointments and laugh.
Bernie is the best candidate for 2020. This is the first time I agree with you. For totally different reasons.
And by the way, Bernie is to Trump what Olaf Palme was to Bozo the Clown.
Sorry Bozo the Clown.
5
Wow... seeing Trump and Carter as somehow parallel.... that's SOME stretch! A bridge too far for me. Can you imagine Carter scribbling his illegible signature with a magic marker on the cover of a Bible? Nah.....
3
Either Ross Douthat just embarrassed himself by displaying his total lack of a moral and ethical compass, or in his claim that Carter and Trump "personally...are ever so slightly different," he has gone full troll. Carter was and is a good and decent and highly ethical and very intelligent and well-informed man who, sadly for the country and the world, was not a particularly good politician. Trump is a bad and shockingly indecent and stupid and ignorant and ravenously self-centered man who, tragically for the country and the world, is having some success as a politician.
2
Jumping the Shark.
Seriously.
3
“Trump as Carter” is the most inept comparison in the ash heap of punditry. You sound like a fourth grader that just learned about the scientific method. The sky is blue. And. And. The grass is green. So. So. Then. Then...
3
Want another four years of Trump? Nominate Bernie Sanders!
@Jary Earl
Trump is far better than Bernie.
Trump is to Carter what Bozo the Clown is to Albert Einstein.
Jimmy Carter was one of the most intelligent and decent human beings to become the POTUS.
Just his appointments of people like Zbig Brzezinski as national security advisor, Harold Brown as Secretary of Defense and Cyrus Vance as Secretary of State
are sufficient to make the point. Compare them to the clown’s appointments and laugh.
Bernie is the best candidate for 2020. This is the first time I agree with you. For totally different reasons.
And by the way, Bernie is to Trump what Olaf Palme was to Bozo the Clown.
Sorry Bozo the Clown.
2
As a Catholic, shouldn't you have been concerned that your computer would burst into flames after comparing St Jimmy Carter to deplorable Donnie? Sure would have saved us both some time.
3
The Times aims to keep conservative GOP supporting columnists on its op ed page to show FOX News/GOP critics that the NYT is not so biased toward liberals. At least liberals by America's warped definition.
But as the GOP gets more extreme, infected by the Trump virus, the Times has to keep these columnists and their far out rationalizations and warped excuses. No matter what the rw wing thinks up, the Times has to keep these supporting columnists. Can't fire 'em no matter what. How would that look?
But even the Times liberals are often middle of the road, moderate, by the US warped definition of liberal.
Only after recent new proposals by some Dems-- Ocasio, Warren, etc, have some liberal Times columnists even started discussing ideas that most other democracies have as centrist policy.
HC for all, green energy, free or low cost college, break up the banks and monopolies. All too 'radical' here to previously be discussed. Columnists will have to start using unused muscles in their commentary. They'll look humanitarian, but not defy previous taboos too much.
What next, unions? OMG. Don't go too far. You don't want to lose prestige and influence in the center of politics.
2
Ross, do you have a designated driver to drive you home, because you have had too much conservatism to drink.
You’re slurring your words as you attempt to smear Sanders and “socialism” with cheap snark (“Bernard” and “Soviet-friendly video clips”). You’re ranting loudly and incoherently with your bleary-eyed vision of history for anyone at the bar who will listen. “Ronald Reagan was a success!” Really? A more sober assessment would identify Reaganomics and his small-government crusade as causing the problems that eventually opened the door for Donald Trump.
You declare “history doesn’t actually repeat or mirror or rhyme that simply,” but you’re going to try and prove that it does anyway, filling an entire column with a bloated claim based on tenuous connections. A lot of words – not much of an army with which to fight your crusade against “socialism.” You refuse to call it by its correct name – Democratic Socialism – in the same cheap spirit that Republicans refer to the Democratic Party as the “Democrat” Party.
People start to move away from you at the bar, and the bartender thinks maybe he should cut you off when you try to summon the ghost of Edmund Burke as you cry about the “decadence of American institutions.” If we would all just go back to church, the anti-Christ socialists would be defeated.
Have another drink Ross – it’s on me.
6
the difference isthat Reagan became a cult AFTER his presidency
2
Boyo, you will denigrate anybody to make a specious point, won’t you Mr. Douthat.
President Carter is a decent human being. Donald Trump* is an immoral capitalist embedded with the creepy American exceptional attitude of stupid money, ‘I know everything and you need to get down on your knees at my brilliance.’
Stupid America as a front for devious and immoral business practices.
As for Reagan...That cadre of liars, war criminals, goons and financial robber barons never were taken to task for their crimes, the result after years of no one being accountable. You get Trump.
Really stretched column to make a silly analogy. Not worthy of the Times.
2
Lucky Bernie Sanders, capturing your attention and undeservingly getting his photo in the NYT.
Poor President Carter, undeservedly having the brokendown rat trap Trump legacy somehow glommed into him, beneath your wildly creative hand.
This far fetched column is so tone deaf to reality, so fictional, so astoundingly bizarre it’s hard to believe it is published in the New York Times.
Are you struggling for real legit subjects to write about?
Let me suggest one: how the press is elevating Bernie Sanders/Joe Biden and ignoring far more deserving Democrat female presidential candidates.
Oh for crying out loud. Sanders is not a socialist. He's a democratic socialist. Do you really have to carry Fox News' water?
4
@Garrett
No difference between the two. Both want to steal money from those who have money.
Sanders/Inslee/Warren
Avenatti Attorney General
Really.
This, Mr Douthat, might just be the smartest thing you've ever written.
1
Wow! If nothing else, by the comments posted by readers, Ross has just proven without a doubt that those on the Left can't take a joke. The opening lines of this column: "Though personally the men are ever so slightly different..." has got to be one of the funniest lines I have ever read in the Gray Lady!
2
The subhead on this column made me ill.
"If Trump is a Carter figure, there’s an obvious candidate to play the Gipper."
Trump isn't a "Carter figure." What an insult to Carter.
Ross Douthat will stoop to anything to smear and defame Democrats. Shame on him.
1
Donald Trump has no American historical political parallel. You have to go back to Ancient Rome for a comparable level of Trump level debauchery. A little bit of Tiberius, Caligula and Nero all rolled into one big soupy bowl of sewage.
2
When do we stop talking about how ridiculous this analogy is and start asking 'Is this really the brightest conservative thinker the NYT could drum up?'
2
Please do not compare the honorable Jimmy Carter to Donald Trump......Carter is a man of integrity.....Mr. Trump is not.......
1
Bernie is nice but seriously is a self proclaimed atheist, Socialist Jew from Brooklyn going to sweep middle America?
Many of the left wing candidates like Warren and Bernie may wow the NY Times comments crowd but they will never beat Trump and that is what's vital for me.
1
Father Douhat is so judgmental.
While of course I’ll vote for Sanders if he’s the nominee, it’s Mayor Pete who has inspired me to donate to any campaign.
The importance of ensuring that Trump is not re-elected is greater than any other consideration. The Democratic Party is home to a wide range of philosophies, any one of which would be preferable to Trump's...well, maybe not actual philosophies, but more like reactions.
I would be delighted to see any of those Democrats running or about to run for president get elected. My recurring nightmare is that the party nominates an unelectable candidate, but even if we avoid that outcome it gets harder every day to see how the party can avoid a repetition of the 2000 or 2016 elections when the number of votes by which the Democratic candidate lost was less than the number of votes received by a left-leaning third-party candidate.
I don't sleep very well these days.
2
I think I understand the parallels Mr, Douthat is attempting to draw here between Ronald Reagan and Bernie Sanders, in addition to parallels between Jimmy Carter and Donald Trump. All of these comparisons require some giants leaps of imagination or exaggerations of the truth to be rendered even remotely credible. It would be a serious omission not to mention Richard Nixon here. Jimmy Carter appeared to be the honest and ethical toothy grinning cure for Nixon's sweaty upper lip criminal deviousness. If Carter represented absolution for America after Nixon, essentially anyone who ultimately replaces a perpetually lying Trump, weighed down by so many ethical and moral scandals, would be viewed (by many) as the appropriate antidote to Trump's poisonous personality. That being said, Bernie Sanders presents his utopian vision of a future that is entirely foreign to most Americans, sounding more like an angry old man yelling at kids to keep off his lawn. Ronald Reagan, by contrast, presented a calm reassuring demeanor that promised a future that resembled a familiar past era in America not unlike the post war 1950's.
3
Ross's analogies make no sense at all.
Bernie, Warren, AOL, and Harris just embraced Omar before she was slammed down hard by 95% of the House of Representatives with that anti bigotry resolution, which was made necessary of course by Omar's explicit bigotry.
That resolution against bigotry and antisemitism was a first in American history. Unprecedented.
That tells us how the vast majority of American voters feel about Omar and people who support Omar.
Hardly likely that any person who embraced Omar would win the general election in 2020.
@David, you got it backwards. republicans do not represent a "majority" of the country..
1
The truth is not only inconvenient it is painful.
When my my father arrived in NYC in the 1920s he arrived with a unique set of experiences. He was a product of affluent middle class Jewish Poles an ability to read and write a number of European languages and a Jesuit education. He was an accomplished boxer because if you were a Jew in Jesuit school you needed to know how to protect yourself and he was well into his 80s when he threatened a young man who was beating up his woman in the street in Montreal.
In 1980 when Reagan was elected my father was livid. He understood that the conservative answer to a dynamic and changing world was cowardice and would lead to the same kind of disaster that befell Europe. My father knew that Reagan wasn't evil but simply banal and the cowardice that saw him elected would lead to the polarization and dysfunction that failing to confront one's fears would bring.
My father never forgave his brother-in-law who left NY with his wife and family to return to the comforts of Poland where they would all reap the rewards of the being too comfortable and its incumbent cowardice.
Carter's malaise is in full flower and cowardice has reduced the USA to the shadow of its former self. Carter's bravery still stands him in good stead as it did in the early 1950s when he lead his team into a failing nuclear reactor while the USA resides in the fear of fear itself. I remember the Vermont Bernie came to from the UofC. The antonym of conservative is bravery.
2
Good argument, but the thesis rests on the following assumption:
"...if Trump is a Carter figure, trying and probably failing to build a new conservative majority inside the decaying institutions of the old one..."
"trying to build" being the operative phrase.
DJT does not build anything except his own wealth and aggrandizement. Anyone who attaches to him to accomplish anything always ends up supporting only and exclusively what DJT wants. And what he wants is money and fame. Nothing else.
With a fundamental axiom false, the rest of the essay, while well-written, falls down.
1
2016 was a protest election in the wake of the Great Recession where the GOP played its outsider card and the Dems their insider card. 2020 will be a protest the protest election, where the Dems need an angry outsider to beat Trump. Bernie and Warren are great outsiders, but Warren doesn't display sufficient anger. Biden is an insider with no anger. Bernie is the Dems best chance to channel the discontent in the entire electorate.
3
I've really come to appreciate Ross's weird sense of humor. The comparsion between Trump and Carter really is next-level trolling. Kudos. (I get that the comparison is extremely limited to the feckless incumbent aspect; it's just hilarious to even put them in the same conversation.)
Like many other commenters, I lament the Democratic Party's insistence on going further and further to the left as a response to Trump, a right wing radical who emboldens the worst elements of fringe-right "thought." I know this is a taboo phrase in woke circles, but whatever happened to just being... normal?
The ultimate antidote to Trump and his ilk is an opposing candidate who promises to return things to normal. You know, a return to NORMS. The norms of American governance; the norms of American foreign policy; the norms of public discourse and behavior, yadda yadda. It's a lovely prospect, isn't it?
We need to reset to the norm. Once we're there, THEN we can move the needle forward on these further-left ideas. You can't do it all at once. Going from far right to far left governance, and presumably back and forth again, is pointless whiplash that only makes people more and more exhausted by and resentful of politics, and meaningful, effective governance becomes even more elusive.
2
Sanders won’t get any more support from congress than Trump gets. It’s hard to revolutionize the world when your policies don’t become law.
Bernie seems to draw a lot of ideas from Canada and Scandinavian democracies. While this may work in Northeast and Northwest, I am afraid that it may be a hard sell for the rest of the country.
2
@observer
You got that right observer. Bernie is for bankrupting the country.
reagan? you insult bernie - reagan was a phony old actor with alzheimer's (that became really apparent when told of the Iran-Contra Scandal - what a blank face!), whereas bernie, whether you like him or not, is still sharp as a tack. there is no comparison other than they're totally different. and once again I ask what was it with that ex-CA gov and his queenly wife that makes them heroes to the GOP? neither of them was overly liked here in CA - there are still those of us living who wonder what the hell is wrong with people on the east side of the Rockies? first reagan, now trump. what gives?????
3
Ross, you're not paying attention.
Bernie's just too old. He a very good man but he's too old. Look to the youth. The "socialism" card will get the Republicans nothing. It worked with my parents. It worked somewhat with my generation (war babies and post-war babies), but with our kids?
Uh-uh!
They're a lot smarter than we ever were. They know how badly we all screwed them over and they (and most of their parents) are going to throw those Republican bums out come 2020.
My bet's on Liz Warren.
1
“…(Bernie) was just attacked from the left by Julián Castro for insufficient zeal on reparations.”
And this is what the Democratic nomination, hence the general election, will boil down to:
If a Sanders-style economic progressive who speaks to the economic realities of the broadest swathe of America wins the Democratic nomination, he or she will go on to win the election in 2020. If a social justice warrior obsessed with race, color, gender and sexual orientation wins the Democratic nomination, he or she will lose in 2020.
It’s that simple.
12
Two perhaps small but very important issues with this column: " ...some Republicans hope that a Sanders-led ticket would help the unpopular incumbent sneak to re-election...." One: Republicans don't hope. They plan, and the real power brokers in the U.S. both plan and spend dark money; and Two: "unpopular incumbent" is about the worst euphemism I can imagine for the train wreck supposedly running the joint south of me. Just saying...
2
If the Democrats' current lurch leftward results in four more years of Trump, the President in 2024 will make Sanders look like Howard Schultz. Indeed, if the left were strategic, they'd let Trump win four more years. The right is fond of mouth-watering at the thought of a Sanders ticket in 2020, but they should remember their own backlash victory in 2016.
2
Look, Carter was a sheep. And Donald is a wolf in sheep's clothing.
The only comparison is the blinding wool.
5
Trump = Reagan = Men who said they would turn things around. They did. Ballooned Deficits --Amid all of the outrages of the Trump administration and Congress, the fact that the federal budget deficit has surged by 77 percent above the same period last year somehow got lost. "Last week, the Treasury Department reported that the government borrowed $310.3 billion from Oct. 1 to Feb. 28, up from $175.7 billion in the same period a year earlier. The accumulated national debt, including the liabilities of Social Security, is now $22 trillion. That is $67,000 for every man, woman and child in this country.(USA Today 3-11-19)
3
Donald Trump...Jimmy Carter?
Bernie Sanders...Ronald Reagan?
Someone did way too much acid in college.
This is way beyond going through the looking glass and is certifiably insane.
4
oH Me God! He's equivocating DJT and Jimmy Carter! What is wrong with the conservative mind?
And Reagan? Geez! Reaganomics is what DJT and the Repubs are all about - Trickle Down, Waterfall Up! This is the problem.
GREEN NEW DEAL - BECAUSE WE HAVE TO.
4
Leaving out the bad hair days, a Hollywood movie star Bernie Sanders is not.
@Thomas
Do you think the now hallowed out middle-class and working poor give a whit about Bernie’s hair? Well, actually, the Millennials find his hair—a now iconic symbol of his lack of vanity—endearing.
1
And you need to give a hat tip to Corey Robin.
How many iterations on Socialism can the NYT op-ed come up with? All five fingers of my left had are up. Why not just add a new category and just be done with it:
2020's all-things-socialist is beginning to look a lot like 2016's "But is she likable?"
Aside from the Trump vs. Carter comparison, I largely agree with this column.
I have been arguing for at least two or three presidential election cycles that corporate centrism was killing the Democratic Party, and Hillary Clinton put the nail in that coffin. You simply cannot inspire people or impact politics with incrementalism, and the Democrats have allowed the GOP to drag them to the right since the 1980s.
Reagan was considered radical for his time. He wasn't able to implement many of his most radical ideas; the most recent tax cut package surpassed his wildest dreams. But he started the conversation. Similarly, Bernie Sanders swings for the fences with his policy proposals. Would he be able to implement all of them as president if he wins in 2020? Probably not, but he has already changed the conversation completely. The fact that the left is setting the terms of debate is already transformational. If he never accomplishes anything else, Bernie has moved the Overton window to the left.
I never thought that I would see Medicare for All, marginal tax rates of 70% or free college become mainstream Democratic proposals -- despite the wailings of the centrist Dems and the loathsome Howard Schultz -- and yet, they are. And they are massively popular with the American public.
Bernie Sanders has the potential to be the paradigm-shifting Reagan of early 21st century politics, leading a generational move to the left -- and not a moment too soon.
11
Reagan lost the popular vote in 1980 to Al Gore. His so-called revolution did not represent a change in politics, but was an artifact of our unrepresentative system of government. Sweeping generalizations about the meaning of his “success” are false.
Al Gore was 32 in 1980?
1
@PJF
"Reagan lost the popular vote in 1980 to Al Gore."
Just like how JFK lost to James Polk in 1942!
I think left out of your piece is that the “great communicator” also testified to the house un American activities committee or HUAC while the head of the Screen Actors Guild. He was a “friendly witness” and confirmed that a “small clique” of communists in Hollywood “have attempted to be a disruptive influence.” I don’t know if Reagan named names but another friendly witness, Walt Disney did. Both of these men helped to destroy the careers of many.
3
I understand the attempt here to make some comparisons, as extremely broad as they are. It's like those people who made the comparisons between the assassinations of Lincoln and Kennedy--clever but basically specious. I've likely joined the probably very large group of people commenting here who are dumbfounded by this attempt. Surely, Douthat was being ironic with the observation that "personally the two men are ever so slightly different." Huh? Here are two men who couldn't be more different, especially personally. And I must put in a plug for Sanders about the terms that Sanders repeatedly regards as outdated, clearly and firmly based on the evidence from survey research. He continually asks how a majority of citizens shown as in favor of his main proposals would still make them (and him) "leftist." I cannot help but think this opinion piece is basically an attempt at being clever about critically branding Sanders and deviously but just as clumsily letting Trump off the hook. Or it's just plain weird.
1
The worries about Dems becoming too "extreme," "very far left," "socialist," or whatever other misnomer you want to call policies (such fair taxation and environmental protection) that were mainstream until Reagan.
In this century, which Dems lost, and why? Al Gore in 2000: bled votes to Ralph Nader on the left, and LOST. John Kerry in 2004: no significant socialist tendencies, LOST. Hillary Clinton in 2016: Third Way Corporatist Dem, LOST.
Barack Obama, of course, won promising Hope and Change, and achieved the longstanding goal of providing more health insurance for Americans (very socialist!). On the other hand, he failed to prosecute the banksters or reverse the growing inequality of wealth.
Show me a Dem who lost for being too liberal, and maybe then I'll start wringing my hands. If Identity Politics doesn't kill the left by self-immolation, Bernie will have a clear shot to the Presidency.
8
@Unconventional Liberal = Perhaps if Bernie gets the nod (I hope not, though), he will be smart enough not to trot out speakers at the convention who are '"Identity Politics" people. At the 2016 convention I, a Democrat, remember thinking - "Where is a middle class white guy? Or woman? Or regular working people?" It's nice and right, to speak for everyone in this country no matter race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. But guess what, there are caucasians too, and they're still the majority. And, oh yes, there are lots and lots of heterosexuals too. Oops, have I said something insulting?
Please stop with the identity politics. It's ridiculous and self defeating. (As in the motion passed by the House this week wherein the motion which would have decryed "Anti-Semitism" wasn't enough and every other "injured" group insisted on being added.)
It's so funny how people are completely incapable of understanding the Carter/Trump comparison. Folks, he's not suggesting they are men of similar temperament or character. It's about being the president in office as an ideology/party is in its death throes.
2
If only Bernie had Reagan's personality, Democrats might have a winner. Senator Sanders has the charm of a mildewed towel.
2
More accurate :
Bernie = FDR 2.0
And that scares Republicans.
Ross and his conservatives know that in fact FDR is "socialism's" Reagan. But you conservatives are afraid to invoke FDR's legacy because you know America honors him next to Lincoln and Washington and is ranked greatest President of the 20th century.
In fact, you conservatives still call him a "socialist" and his programs like social security,labor rights, high tax rates on rich, GI Bill that provided free college to returning vets, etc. ( btw,LBJ was a New Dealer too, hence Medicare)
You also know that the Greatest Generation elected that "socialist" to a record FOUR times ! I guess America's Greatest Generation was "socialist" too eh ? Western Europe, Canada, Australia loved his "socialist" New Deal so much that they copied it and Reaganism dismantled it.
C'mon Ross, admit it...."socialism is American as apple pie" and Americans love it ! Just call something else...Freedom and Democracy.
4
@Tom
Yes sir but Father Ross missed those lectures at Harvard as he was waving the incenser at the church on Mount Auburn Street.
1
This column is the ultimate in bothsidesism. Comparing Trump to Carter is beyond ridiculous. Carter didn't 'sieze control of a divided exhausted party". That was Ford, the accidental president, whose party had been almost exterminated by Nixon, Agnew, and Watergate. Carter won the popular vote by 1.4 million votes. Trump lost by 3 million votes. Carter was probably one of the most honest, decent, albeit ineffective presidents in history. Trump is clearly the most dishonest, indecent president ever. Indeed, he is in a class by himself in those categories. Carter did not have the assistance of a malevolent foreign power or an egotistical FBI director.
2
Carter figure? Trump is more of a Hummel figure. Just without cute or other appeal and totally without value..
3
The movement of the American people away from the merciless depredation of financial conservatism did not begin with Bernie. It started as a reaction to Clintons compromise with the devil in the 1990's. The people wanted a true liberal in 2000 and voted in the closest candidate that was available but their choice was stolen by the Supreme Court. The next time the people had a chance to vote in a liberal they gave Obama the election and both houses of Congress. Unfortunately Obama was more conservative than Clinton and they were again thwarted. The movement has been growing for 20 years and the next time the people will have a chance to let their voice be heard will be 2020 when they put in Bernie with both houses of Congress. But unlike their bad luck over the last two decades, this time they will have elected a liberal who is as committed as the people are, a person who can ring in the era of rational equality that will transform America into the middle class powerhouse that it once was. So yes, Bernie's revolution will be as substantial as Reagans, but no it will not be a pack of lies designed to rob the people and enrich the few. And it will last as long as the people can remember the bad old days of Reagan and Trump, which is about one generation as the crow flies in America.
4
A skim of the comments agree with me. Carter compared as similar to Trump? How absurd.
And no clear clarification of the meaning of socialism. America will never be a "socialist" country. In the old meaning of socialism. Douthat needs to go to Youtube and watch some videos of Richard Wolff who will explain the history of socialism to him. America and many other western countries have a mixed economy with capitalistic elements and socialistic elements and that's the way it will stay. But we need a serious national health program and regulated capitalism. Corporations have too much power and control now as do the wealthy, which has also led to the horrid wealth disparity. Even Trump was vomited up largely due to the wealth disparity, movement of jobs off-shore, low wages, ruination of unions, etc. Tjhe climate disaster upon us is caused by corporate power and loss of democracy in this country.
Shame on Douthat. He was not thinking with this one. Better luck next time.
1
Look to Norway. Socialism is a dead horse. Democrats and Republicans are inviting NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg to address a joint meeting of Congress next month around the 70th anniversary of the trans-Atlantic alliance.
1
Douthat does such a convincing imitation of an old fogey that it's easy to forget he's too young to know what he's talking about much of the time. This is an example. Nobody who was alive when Carter was elected would ever compare him to Trump.
3
The slightest suggestion of a Democratic baby-step leftwards from the party's right-of-center position raises horrified cries of "socialism". Interestingly, far-right positions taken here and now by the GOP and the administration haven't been referred to as "fascism" by mainstream commentators.
4
What a crazy mixed up column. Trump and Carter comparison?
The NYTimes obviously aims to offer the range of political opinion on its op ed pages, even as our political rationalizations get more extreme. They have to have GOP supporting columnists.
The GOP has been powerful, and at times dominated our 3 branches of govt. They are tied to big donors who finance elections. The media gets big money for paid political campaign ads.
So the Times has columnist Douthat, who gets more and more far out thinking up new rationalizations and theories, as our politics have turned to right wing extremes. It's the pushback trying to restore balance in our politics that is then called extreme.
If the Times didn't have Douthat's type, then FOX News and GOP would call it a 'liberal left wing radical socialist paper'.
3
We have Bernie Sanders and his supporters on this site to blame as much as anything else for Hillary's loss in 2016. I left this site in disgust when it became dominated by the arguments between the "Never Hillary" Bernie Bros and the Hillary supporters like me. I will do everything in my power to make Joe Biden our nominee in 2020. I will not let the Bernie Bros kick me out of the party I have supported for my entire life for a Socialist.
@Richard, much as we appreciate your power, we are thinking about our children and grandchildren's future..
1
Socialism is now the new right wing buzzword to scare all its believers, what a waste of time.
1
Reagan was likeble. Sanders is not. End of discussion.
Well, I suppose if one squints fir a very long time in really bright light, one can see some parallels between Carter and Trump but a more compelling argument can be made for the stark differences between the two men. Their respective character, personality and circumstances to win them the White House in the first place, could not be viewed in any starker contrast. Furthermore, Mr. Carter had political experience as a governor where Trump had none.
Ronald Reagan was a handsome, glib actor more than at home in front of the camera sounding like a parent reassuring their children all will be well after an energy crisis, gasoline shortages and a protracted Iranian hostage crisis that made America look powerless. Bernie Sanders looks much older and sounds angry and cranky in comparison to Reagan. Reagan promised a return to 1950's Leave It To Beaver values. Sanders promises a foreign utopia where the wealthiest Americans and businesses guarantee and pay for the future of everyone else. If Ronald Reagan and Bernie Sanders were paintings viewed by the masses, Reagan was a familiar, safe and pleasing Norman Rockwell whereas Bernie Sanders is an abstract and unsettling Jackson Pollock. Both Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan existed in an era before social media and 24/7 cable news (or Citizens United). Trump and Sanders, in contrast, are both products of social media and 24/7 cable news in an America and a world that will seemingly be forever agitated and polarized politically.
1
Thanks, Ross Douthat, for this column. It was a pleasant surprise, especially for those who want to see real change in the government.
I appreciate the global comparisons of Reagan, Carter, Trump and Sanders. Ideologically, the two Dems align with each other, as do the two Reeps. (although Trump's package is an angry and bitter one)
What I liked were the power comparisons, which were accurate. The Republicans took a risk fielding Reagan, and it really paid off for them.
The same could be said for nominating Bernie to head the Democratic ticket.
After more than 2 years of daily abuse by Trump, Americans do want a sea change in government. They do not crave incrementalism and tepid, polite leadership (which, by the way, would not stand up to Trump's lies and bombast).
Americans need someone as tough as Trump to represent what the majority of voters now wants. This would be Sanders. His long-held social values have never wavered, and align with those of the electorate. And he doesn't back down.
Sanders is polling well, has established support throughout the U.S., and could definitely beat Trump, delivering to Americans programs they need and want.
1
As individuals, Carter and Trump are as diametrically opposite as could be. They’re like matter (Carter) and anti-matter, order and chaos, benign/malignant...pick your polarity. But as regards political significance, political impact, yes, Douthat could be right.
3
Nobody over 60 should be nominated. The rates of cancer, heart disease, dementia, and other chronic diseases sky-rocket after 60.
@Diogenes
Agree. Ageist to pretend otherwise.
This article is really weird in so many ways. The fact is, Senator Sanders isn't very far left, he's a humanist. The center has moved very far right. In order for capitalism to function properly there has to be competition and at least a somewhat level playing field. Extreme wealth inequality isn't going to sustain capitalism. We can have capitalism that works, in a social democracy. My money is on Sanders to lead the charge with common sense.
13
@Lleone The socialists have to bail out the free-market every few years and many times in between to keep the economy alive. The free market needs a broad and strong working middle class to produce the wealth of the nation. In short, a free social market economy is needed.
2
@R. Littlejohn yes!
http://blogs.reuters.com/edward-hadas/2012/01/25/the-social-market-economy/
Cut the ‘socialist’ trope, please.
We already have publicly managed fire departments, police services, roads, trains, air traffic control, market controls, farm policy and subsides, schools, universities, hospitals & health programs, food programs, libraries, broadcast systems, energy production and distribution, and on.
It’s called a civil society.
15
Except Sanders wasn't a near miss. He got hammered. The fact he was able to rally small numbers of devoted followers to win in caucus states doesn't change the fact the vast majority of Democratic voters supported Clinton.
Sanders is closer to George McGovern, an idealistic candidate who also inspired a small core of passionate followers whose outrage over the party nominating an establishment candidate directly led to the election of a "worst nightmare" Republican and whose subsequent nomination four years later led to disaster.
1
Inadvertently perhaps, Mr. Douthat has elevated Mr. Sanders to a real man of the people. By calling him President Bernie in his column, he has cemented his appeal to the masses.
I don’t recall anyone referring to Carter as President Jimmy, Reagan as President Ronald, Clinton as President Bill, or G.W Bush as President George. The closest is probably “the Donald”, but aptly, without the word President preceding it.
I say go for it, President Bernie!
4
As Trump showed in 2016, anyone can not only get elected in America today, but also get elected without even trying.
So, yes, Bernie can win, but so could arch white supremacist David Duke, if he chose to run. Anyone can win for any reason and without really trying, as long as a candidate can exude cult of personality qualities and capture the undivided attention of all of the major press outlets as Trump did in 2016, anyone, absolutely anyone can win today, and without even really trying to boot.
In defense of President Carter.
While President Carter was not the best of presidents; he certainly had more experience and intelligence than Trump. President Carter's problem was he did not have the right people on hi staff, he had to deal with stagflation (left by Nixon and Johnson), the aftermath of the Vietnam War, USSR invasion of Afghanistan and the Iran Hostage Crises. The latter, causing the OPEC oil embargo and the beginning of run away inflation (high oil prices). Overnight the US manufacturing economy, dependent on cheap oil, was in shambles (high unemployment). And, uncertainty (high interest rates). The Federal Reserve's policies strangled the US economy. Most of this happening between 1979 and the 1980 elections
Carter is no Trump. His term was a very difficult time fro this country, because of a number of external events Events that any president would have had a difficult time dealing with.
Yes, President Carter is more conservative than Mr. Sanders; most centrists are. But, President carter should not be compared with Trump. A better example is President Andrew Jackson. Even then Jackson has m ore intelligence, and experience, than Trump.
If the US survives a Trump presidency, not that Pelosi is trying to save her re-election, instead of going for impeachment, history will show the Trump Administration will be the top 5 in worse presidencies. President carter doe snot even come close to the top 5.
4
Trump hasn't tried to build any coalition. Trump is about Trump. He has no ideology except Trump. I doubt he even knows what ideology means. As far as any parallels to Carter, that is absurd. Could there be any two men more different? The only thing unfortunately (in Trump's case) they have in common is that they both were/are Presidents. Just as there is no parallel at all between Trump and Carter, there is no parallel between Reagan and Sanders. If anything Bernie is a repudiation of Reagan's disastrous trickle down rip-off. Also there are many many people who do not view Reagan's presidency as a success but the beginning of the end of the middle class.
3
Another difference is that Bernie is not an extremist and Douthat and the GOP insist. Medicare for all, free college, and campaign finance reform all are majority favored positions with voters. Reagan's supply-side economics was not popular.
It's hard to believe that you call Reagan a New Deal Democrat - maybe he was but he changed. He also sold out his colleagues in the entertainment business to Joe McCarthy.
Reagan's short-sighted policies did more damage to the U.S. than any president in my lifetime.
3
@Moonwood the social programs all have a record of success. Reaganomics trickle down economics failed, it is still killing the working middle class.
"...a possible doorway into a future where right wing populism and socialism contend for mastery.."
This is a cagey op-ed. Sanders' policies are actually social democratic, but for Douthat's purposes it is convenient that rumpled old Sanders self-describes as a socialist. Ignore the subtleties of social economics, and create a puff piece for the new Reagan. Now Douthat can paint Bernie's supporters as socialist. It's very clever, but we need to define "socialism", don't we?
9
From an 8/23/2017 Newsweek article by Jason Le Miere:
"According to the analysis of the 2016 Cooperative Congressional Election Survey, fewer than 80 percent of those who voted for Sanders, an independent, in the Democratic primary did the same for Clinton when she faced off against Trump a few months later. What’s more, 12 percent of those who backed Sanders actually cast a vote for Trump."
The Bernie-crats did at least as much as anyone to put Trump in the White House.
@Carl
Yes, just as they promised to do in their comments here.
@Carl The electoral college put Trump in power, he lost the popular vote and Comey was helpful.
The electoral process needs reform badly.
This is great. Everything will be "free." Food, college, health care, housing. Why work ever again? yay!
@Jerome,
How about working to get real, useful, valuable things done, rather than just spinning away your labour under coercion because you need to eat?
Comparing Sanders to Reagan is like comparing FDR to Homer Simpson. However, we should be aware that the GOP never attacked Bernie during in the 2016 Democratic primary, and in fact they actually donated money to his Iowa campaign against Hillary.
2
@Jefflz
They didn't need to attack Old Bernie. But they still have a mountain of oppo research to loose on him should it become necessary.
Looking at this form the outside, Bernie is too old and too cranky. I cannot believe that this guy will be able to pull people together, and not just because he has shunned the democrats when it has been convenient.
For my money, the best-prepared, most-proven, and actually reasonable person is the ex governor of Colorado. But will the party embrace him?
I think maybe Ross has a point in Sanders being a known quantity, but I would rephrase it as Sanders being unknown in a way that's helpful to him.
Nobody knows, for example, his ideas or ideals more deeply than the level of slogans, but lots of people believe it doesn't matter. Douthat thinks this allows for flexibility, which it does: but flexibility in which way? Douthat assumes it means fliexibilty towards the center and towards pragmatism, in other words, that Sanders will become a better president than he is a campaigner.
In much the same way, people thought there was a deeper, better Trump that would appear once he stopped campaigning and became president.
Here's the bottom line: don't expect a 74 year old to change dramatically for the better.
Trump clearly lives in 1970, and Sanders lives in 1968, and they have both been amply rewarded despite, if not for, their shortcomings. In the same way that Trump saw winning the presidency as proof that he's fine just the way he is, Sanders will see his presidency as vindication that his shallow approach and knee jerk love of all things Denmark is fine just the way it is.
1
Here’s one difference between Bernie and Ronnie. Reagan was charming and funny. Even when his policies were reprehensible, it was hard to dislike the guy. Bernie on the other hand is the only member of my tribe I’ve ever come across with no sense of humor whatsoever.
2
All this chatter about the front-runner Sanders requires a braver imagination and broader perspective. It is true that the DNC is now nothing but a machine owned and championed by the elite, the very elite who brought the country the ills it now seeks to eradicate. It is true that Sanders offers an appealing alternative.
Yet his candidacy has hardly tackled the problems of automation, digital privacy, and the great displacement of jobs in convincing ways. He was absolutely essential to advancing progressive thinking in 2016. Now it is time to hand the baton to candidates who possess greater familiarity with the digital era and who also share the values and conviction Sanders has so successfully promoted.
To me, these candidates are Pete Buttigieg and Andrew Yang, who speak urgently, eloquently, and yet calmly about the challenges that this union must confront.
Sure.
But just please stop saying "Socialist."
Bernie is a Democratic Socialist, and there's a big difference.
For example, Bernie does not propose state ownership of all industry. And more.
4
I think part of what you are saying is that Bernie is genuine. Reagan might have been genuine, but it was hard to know as years went by and he increasingly said things that made no sense or just parroted slogans. Bernie is the real deal progressive, not an opportunist. He's not senile. He's also a better person than some of the younger candidates. I don't care if he's a one term President if he's followed by Elizabeth Warren.
9
We saw Bernie speak to a very large and enthusiastic crowd in, of all places, Oklahoma City. We were impressed with his vigor and his intelligence. The Democrats have been playing defense since the Reagan years. This election cycle is an opportunity to go on offense. I have no idea whether he can win or not. But, I don't think running as Republican light is a great plan.
11
Yesterday Nancy Pelosi gave her best judgment about a possible Trump impeachment. She said, "He's not worth it."
Today Ross Douthat compares Donald Trump to Jimmy Carter.
Other than being interesting observations, these are two of the funniest things I've heard all month coming from two completely different directions. Placed side-by-side, these two assessments should make President Trump's head spin.
3
Yeah, Democrats should follow the advice of a right-wing Republican and nominate a Socialist in 2020. A wee bit disingenuous, no? Sending Joe Biden to the White House will give Bernie's fans approximately four-fifths of what they want (including, most importantly, some actual human beings sent up to the Supreme Court). Trump will continue doing what's doing now: tearing down the social safety net and replacing it with a border wall. Considering the peculiar animosity towards Socialism in the American heartland (if not to Socialist-inspired policy proposals) Biden is by far the safer choice for Democrats. If that doesn't work for you in the primaries, it had better work for you come next November.
4
If Trump is a Carter figure, then I’m a 100 pound, blond, 20 year old Supermodel. Sure, it’s possible, but not bloody likely.
Get a grip, or take a Vacation. PLEASE.
8
Ludicrous
6
I love it! I was with Bernie in 2015 and I am with him now. He is truly one of the only straight shooters we have in America and he will help us build our country into the place it was always aspired to be. Feel the Bern!!
8
@Nick DeNezza
Just a suggestion. Don't start in with that "Feel the Bern!!" slogan, because it's a real deal-breaker for those who don't...yet.
1
"...the decadence of American institutions threatens to make every president effectively disjunctive, keeping real realignment forever out of reach."
The decadence of American institutions? More like the decadence of individual characters like Mitch McConnell, John Boehner, Clarence Thomas, and Dick Cheney. We can attach names to our decay. Most recently McConnell's no vote on Merrick Garland -- utterly disgusting. Let us not sweep our fall under the rug with phrases like "American institutions threaten...." But instead put names behind selfish, politically motivated decisions that swept away rule of law, our Constitution and the norms and traditions of our government.
That said, if anyone is going to realign our mojo, it won't be from one president, but a team of quality people in all branches of government. Bernie Sanders goes nowhere without a functional Legislative and Executive Branch led by individuals with integrity, honesty, courage and respect for the rule of law on both sides of the aisle.
8
Sanders is not relative to Reagan other than as an old man trying to be primetime news. Just remember, if Sanders gets elected, younger proxies will be running the Nation for a tired, old man struggling to stay awake.
1
Trump is a Reagan Figure Alone--They both got the U.S. economy drunk on deficits---Carter's a Saint
5
Is Old Bernie going to release his tax information this time, or is he going to blame "Doctor" Jane again for failing to do so, as he did last time?
It's Old Bernie who's like Trump.
3
@Pecan, same old Hillary campaign tired talking points...
Yes, history might repeat itself but remember the words of Karl Marx thinking on Hegel: history does repeat itself, the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce. I would say that Trump, as heir to the Reagan right, is the farcical part, and Sanders might just be the political sweeper we need to clean up the mess. In any event, until some political party starts taking the environmental issue seriously the battle between left and right will look like one of the most silliest battles in history. If Sanders (or any other candidate) picks up that mantle and carves out the correct message (s)he will win because there are just enough republicans who still believe in science.
4
Sanders as a Reagan? You gotta mass produce whatever you're taking. Reagan is loved by wide parts of America and many European countries. Sanders? The Upper West side of Manhattan and maybe the Politburo in Havana.
To compare Jimmy Carter to Donald Trump is to compare a pair of stiletto heels to a pair of flip-flops. Anyone who builds such a specious comparison is desperately trying to find an excuse for the country's current psychosis.
3
There may be something to this. Fox News has become a 24-hour doom-and-gloom screed on the evils of socialism now. It’s practically all-AOC all the time. That sort of panicky coverage tells me they’re terrified.
4
How dare you even speak the name of Jimmy Carter in the same sentence as that one I never speak?!
There is no - I mean NO - similarity whatsoever between a man who has lived a life of public service and a juvenile whose entire life has been about himself.
7
At any level, making the comparison between the 45th and Carter is simply disgusting. Unable to read beyond that.
3
We teach ourselves a warped picture of the Modern World......entirely defined by the past.
And Socialism as we currently know it.....is the past.
Not the future.....the Past.
Socialism as we define it.......is the economic mechanism of the 1930s. A bygone era when industrial capacity was at its peak, mass production of goods, rigid definitions of labor, housing, transport, communication, etc.
Socialism had its failures.....the Nazis, the British Socialist Model, the Russian model.........and one brilliant success........the American New Deal.
Bernie Sanders, the pied piper of Socialism, leading the indoctrinated youth astray(think Sandy Ocasio ,, David Hogg, and the like)....because America has refused payment.
There is a new frightening model arising..........look towards China, which is learning how to control the human population through advanced electronic media platforms. The Flash Mob. Social Media. MetaData....and then harness that human energy to produce value added goods which can be traded outside its self-contained society to enrich an Elysium type upper class Communist Party society.
Much as in the 1930s...as socialism became both an ideal and a nightmare......America will need to use its unique talents for pragmatism and survival to adapt to the Chinese Model without losing its individual freedoms and egalitarianism.
1
The 42 percent of the uninformed or racist voting public that approve of Trump’s disgusting performance do not read the New York Times. So what is the purpose behind the smearing of Sanders and Carter by comparing them to Reagan and Trump respectively. Satire?
6
Republican sabotage of democracy went into high gear with President Carter.
1
Buckle up, about 15 months of tea leaf reading to go.
The problem with using the word “socialist” is twofold. First, since the USSR and the Nazi Party both used the word “socialist” in their self descriptions, the word has become a horrible dog whistle for many people, who envision being dragged out of their homes, forced to dig ditches, sent to re-education camps, or worse. The fact that even Scandinavian countries don’t describe themselves as socialist, using “mixed economy “ instead, further clouds the issue.
Second, Bernie and his supporters never really talk about where they would draw the limit on government power. Yes, a social safety net is important, but you need to have a tension between the public and private sectors, each ensuring that the other’s power is limited. Bernie,to my knowledge, never discusses this, leading one to be skeptical of his true motives.
2
A right-wing columnist wants the Democratic candidate to be Bernie Sanders. Let us note that he is also the only human on this planet to turn intellectual backflips to compare Donald Trump and Jimmy Carter. Let us also note that allowing your opponent to pick your candidate is insane.
2
Please explain to me again how Donald Trump and Jimmy Carter are similar.
While I rarely agree with Ross Douthat's political philosophy, his columns are usually interesting and well thought out.
Not today. One assumes the blurb under the headline, suggesting Trump is a Carter figure, was designed as click bait. It probably worked on that level, but was otherwise dishonest, poorly reasoned and insults the reputation of the most decent and genuine President in my 73 year lifetime.
Shame on you Mr. Douthat.
Your central thesis is totally false. Trump is an evil fascist, who cares nothing for the well being of the people he was elected to govern or the health of our planet. His primary mission is to gain as much wealth & power for himself, his family and the ultra-rich who support him. Carter is a man of integrity who has worked tirelessly over the decades to support poor and middle-class people and the environment. Although I am not a supporter of the far left, Bernie has a lot more substance & integrity than Reagan.
3
It must be a strain to come up with topics for these columns, because you gotta really twist things to compare the senile story-telling Reagan to the very with-it and honest Bernie Sanders.
2
" [P]ersonally the two men are ever so slightly different," WOW!. What a perverted observation! On the central point of honesty, they are polar opposites. Carter sinned in his heart, Trump sins EVERYWHERE else. His heart is solid fool's gold.
2
Bernie Sanders !
Getting wealthy off “ small donations “
Which he gets to keep all to himself after he loses to trump !!!!!!
That is if we r crazy enough to let him win the place setting next to trump as our miserable choices.
Bernie and Biden and Shultz please think of our country .
Too much EGO in Washington.
It is too bad that Mr. Douthat has to produce two columns a week. Otherwise, he might not engage in silly speculation.
There is no comparison between Carter and Reagan: Carter was a decent, caring man; Reagan was a racist who began his campaign by praising "states' rights" at the site of the murder of civil rights workers by the Ku Klux Klan. And there's not comparison between Sanders, a decent man who cares for those left behind, and Trump, who is a bigot and racist.
The increasingly extremist authoritarians of the Right, like Douthat, are desperate to pretend that Democrats are just as vile and racist and anti-democratic as they are.
They're not.
3
Why not Elizabeth Warren instead?
Really, Ross, you should have written something more substantial than idle comparisons!
Reagan was an amiable dunce who could read Peggy Noonan speeches convincingly from a teleprompter. Bernie is no Reagan. Bernie thinks for himself and actually cares about democratic and fair government.
Trump is a vacuous, bloated caricature of an angry old white man wallowing in unearned, undeserved wealth. Carter is no Trump. Carter blazed the trail of fair governance and sensible foreign relations that Clinton and Obama followed. Carter continues to this day to help the unfortunate help themselves.
3
I suppose I should find it hilarious that Ross Douthat completely skipped what actually links Reagan and Carter: moral backbone.
Oh, well. I guess when you’re busy pinning, “the decline and fall of practically everybody,” in Will cuppy’s aged phrase, on everybody who isn’t in church, you can’t really notice the small stuff.
1
Transformative? If anyone other than a mobster is elected instead of Donald Trump, it will be transformative.
3
Mr. Douthart shouldn't speak of what he clearly doesn't understand. Not only does he conflate Carter with Trump in the most intentionally dishonest manner, he fails to know the difference between a socialist and a social democrat. Shame on the false representations, Mr. Douthart. Trying to get everyone in a lather by this kind of Trumpism is disgusting. You're not qualified to have an opinion piece in the NYT.
2
Poor Ross. It's a terrible thing to lose your mind. It's even worse when you put your condition on full display in the NYT. Trump a Carter figure?? As his Ross' spirtual leader would say, "So sad."
3
Ever dip into Gibbon's "Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire"? Bet you have!
He concludes one chapter, discussing the Emperor Aurelian. A success, everyone said at the time.
But future writers, said Gibbon, would find in him the seeds of the Roman Empire's eventual decline and fall.
Which brings me to Ronald Reagan.
Gosh, he certainly licked inflation, didn't he. Remember "stagflation" that haunted the Carter presidency? Zooming prices PLUS economic doldrums.
BUT--
--it came at a price--
--when Mr. Reagan reached out a placating hand to big business. As who should say:
"We're sorry! We've been so MEAN to you guys! Pestering you with laws and regulations.
"You just do your thing, guys. You just keep on making money hand over fist--
--and that'll be good for the rest of us."
Two results:
(1) The extraordinary greed and selfishness that became endemic. CEO salaries soaring into the stratosphere--
--while the rest of us--
--limped along.
(2) The malignant hatred of government--any government--that afflicts today's right wingers like a cancer.
I'm thinking of that crusty old Texan who (interviewed by BBC News America) expressed his delight--
--that the USA's credit rating had been dropped a grade.
Having said all that--
--no. You're right, Mr. Douthat. History does NOT repeat itself. Every day really IS--
--a new story. And, as a chess master once remarked--
--all the mistakes are there. Waiting to be made.
2
Rarely have I read something in this paper that is so completely utterly wrong on all counts. Take Carter's name out of your mouth. No one has been comparing them, and certainly not from the "beginning". This is not a thing.
2
Comparing Trump to Jimmy Carter is pretty inane..
2
It is an insult to Jimmy Carter and to the readers intelligence to compare him to Trump’s incompetence, ignorance, and massive corruption. What planet is Mr Douthat living on ??!
3
I had to double check that this wasn't written by Andy Borowitz.
Didn't make it past the first paragraph.
Comparing trump to President Carter is insane. They are both "outsiders?" President Carter was the Governor of Georgia. trump is a loser bum who never held even the lowest of public offices and who was installed by foreign powers.
6
Reagan was the worst.
3
Interestingly, Reagan was 69 on election day in 1980. Sanders will be 79 on election day in 2020.
Sanders stands alone in American politics.
Bernie's message is manifest: human capital is the most important asset this country has as opposed to money (capital)
Money can be obtained through exploitation, cheating, financial schemes, buying political power and legislation to lower taxes. "The system is rigged" belongs to Bernie more than anyone else's claim to it.
Capitalism in America is as the jugular of democracy. This is a mortal danger.
Bernie is the Savior of American Democracy! People know it. We need Bernie. He has the incomparable moral power to help change the course of our democracy.
3
I would be VERY surprised if Sanders walked away with the Democratic nomination if Joe Biden finally committed himself to running -- if for no other reason than the majority of Democrats might view the left/progressive agenda of the new "Social Democrats" as a bit too much, too soon... even though it may all make sense.
And then there's the demographic Sanders failed to reach last time, namely the African-American (and Latino) communities, who as Democrats tend to skew a bit conservative, and in part explains why they by and large voted for Clinton.
Not being clairvoyant, it's hard to tell who will remain standing in such a large and diverse field of candidates, but whomever it is, let's just hope they get the job done.
1
I'm not surprised, Ross, that you would stoop to comparing Ronnie Raygun and Trumpence to the finest President that we have had since FDR.
This is simply the continuance of smearing anything that was ever good in this country, just so that your latest greedy incarnation doesn't look so bad.
Well, you can't clean up this mess by spreading swill.
Shame on you.
You owe President Carter an apology.
4
First, I don’t see Ross Douthat as out to smear Bernie or promote him in order to sway Dems not to vote for Bernie, as some here have implied or outright stated. I listen to the Argument podcast weekly and read Douthat’s columns. Though I may disagree with some of his viewpoints, it’s clear (to me at least) that he is committed to actually engaging in discussion with those who do disagree, unlike many Americans on both ends of the spectrum these days. I appreciate that his values and views are those of a large chunk of Americans, and Douthat’s willingness to put them out there helps me to empathize and understand better the other side of the argument. I may think he’s usually wrong, but at least he’s trying to have the conversation. Also, he’s no Trumpian.
Having said that, I am a Berner. I voted for him in the primaries in 2016, I donated the day he announced he was running in 2020 and will continue to donate, and I will be voting for him in 2020. Bernie has been fighting the fight for a long long time, and he energizes people to rise up and join in the fight. He’s right when he says that those policies and views that he ran on in 2016 are now commonplace. He has plans on how to pay for them, though I agree that he needs to explain them more often. He literally wants to make the world a better place for everyone, and half the time the argument is, yeah, but he’s not a Democrat. Who cares? Are we voting for a label or for someone to lead our country?
11
Having lived through the era of Reagan me-ism and corporatization culminating in its most extreme case with trump I'd welcome a change and not the half baked regurgitated right of center ideas of various so-called centrists like Schultz. The oligarchs have had their way and run our government into the ground to line their pockets. As I heard AOC say the other day it is past time to remind them just who the government works for. Go Bernie!
8
"From the beginning the presidency of Donald Trump has inspired analogies to the years of Jimmy Carter."
Analogy #17 will SHOCK you!
22
Many of the commentators who criticize the column for making a comparison between Trump and Carter miss the kind of comparison that is being made; it's not one about their personalities or policy orientations bur rather about the political dynamics of partisan conflict and realignment.
2
The notion that Carter has any parallel with Trump is so absurd that the words in the rest of this article may as well be a result of an explosion in the type-setting room.
154
@Nial McCabe I think Douthat is referring to the concept of a transition president, presiding over the shift from one political era to another. But, "incompetent" works well too.
1
It's OK, Ross. We all have those weeks when the deadline is looming, the ideas have dried up, and we have to come up with something, ANYTHING to go to print.
It's the kind of thing that leads to tortured comparisons.
1
Can you be serious? Donald Trump does not inspire analogies to Jimmy Carter other than they are both white males. Although, Carter supported a conservative platform, he was a humanitarian. During his tenure in the Oval Office, President Carter’s behavior was vastly different than Donald Trump. First off, Carter was not a self-absorbed, malicious liar and manipulative cheat. He acted like a responsible adult. You may support Bernie Sanders. He represents and supports values and goals that are far more constructive to the American People than Donald Trump’s diatribe. But that fact is true, for just about every and any one else considering running in the 2020 election. If the American People have any hope of saving our democracy, Trump needs to be defeated in2020. Sanders is unelectable. If he continues to actively campaign for the 2020 Election, he will do nothing but provide Trump with inroads to remain in office, which will be disastrous for this country. Intellectually, Bernie Sanders knows this. Sanders is not anything like Reagan. His age has nothing to do with his “electability” He does not have and will not receive the financial backing that Reagan had. A country that technically… well actually “gamed” our electoral system to place Trump in the White House is NOT going to allow a Socialist to replace him. If Mr. Sanders really, really cares about the survival of the American Democracy he will embrace his intellectual side and step aside.
2
But Reagan never sounded angry . Bernie can’t speak without yelling.
2
@Jackson, he has much to be concerned about. We cannot stand Trump's elementary school level vocabulary...
1
All this tortured sophistry, week after week, to outlaw abortion, promote tax cuts, abolish the minimum wage, give carte blanche to polluters, ensure we do nothing to prevent climate disastrous and conduct endless war.
What a noble calling, is the life of the Republican shill!
3
Please don’t insult Bernie Sanders by comparing him to the original pretender Ronald Reagan. It’s ridiculous. For example, I don’t remember Reagan ever championing the rights of workers or any vulnerable populations for that matter. On the contrary, he showed complete contempt for American workers, especially if they were unionized, and poor people, particularly if they came from communities of color. The lionization of Ronald Reagan is what’s led our country to its current catastrophic state.
I do, however, agree with the last line of your column, with one critical edit:
“Sanders [and Warren] 2020: Accept No Substitutes.”
3
Yes, but where is Sanders going to get an Iranian hostage crisis?
Carter's Presidency was also viewed as a "cleansing" period for the Executive Branch. At the time, the country was sick and tired of both the fatal lies about how the war in Vietnam might be won and the corruption of the Nixon Administration.
Perhaps Carter and Trump share, to the author's point, the attribute of being disjunctive. However, as Carter's later life was to show, the man through his acts has proven to be of the highest moral integrity. Trump is his complete opposite in this regard. Indeed, many find it challenging to place both names within the confines of one sentence, out of deep regard for the former.
2
Wow. Conservative columnist Ross Douthat just dubbed Sir Bernie a socialist Ronald Reagan. That is pretty interesting and definitely food for thought, I must say. So far I am unimpressed by the lackluster cast of moderates who are running. Perhaps the Democratic ticket should be Bernie for Pres, Elizabeth Warren for VP. That way, if septuagenarian Bernie experiences serious health issues or passes away while in office, we will have someone with a very similar style and values to pick up the mantel. This is an important election. We can't be Biden our time.
3
"Sanders 2020: Accept No Substitutes." This troll of an opinion piece raises an interesting question: Of whom on the left is Ross Douthat actually afraid? Which of the substitutes makes him and his kind quake. Sure, Bernie is scary enough to apologists for the corporate order and billionaire class. But my guess would be Warren. She's a Sanders with ready-formed legislative packages.
In any event, while all this is fun, we'll know soon enough where the Democratic party is going for 2020. As Rahm Emanuel aptly remarked, it's impossible to discern now, but, far from Washington and the current media spotlight, someone will catch fire on the campaign trail. And that will be the one. Unless, of course, the Democratic party establishment does it's usual institutionally-ordained trick of stomping on that candidate in the name of "electability." Then Trump can keep mucking up his job, lining his pockets, and damaging American markets and foreign interests until even Republicans are willing to impeach him.
1
Like all Republicans, Ross wants Sanders as the candidate, just like Nixon worked to make McGovern his opponent, and the Reagan worked to make it Mondale, and Bush worked to make it Kerry.
They ALL wanted the Democrat they knew they could beat!
I kinda like Bernie Sanders, although his arrogance and sometimes mulish tunnel vision is worrisome, but I have troubles believing he can win much more than college-educated Whites. I see much the same in Elizabeth Warren.
And the fact that Trump and Douthat want him as the candidate tells me something as well.
To compare Jimmy Carter, a man of high moral character his entire life, who still, in his mid-90's is STILL working for others, versus Trump, a man who only serves himself, his own pleasures with ZERO moral character, is an insult to basic intelligence. In his 4 years, Carter ran the cleanest WH seen in decades....Trump was in violation on Day 1!
Carter EARNED his Nobel Peace Prize, Trump tried to cheat his way to one (which he'll never get).
Carter worked HARD at his job. Trump spends he time screaming at the TV, screaming at his aides, tweeting an playing golf.
Carter brought back Harry Truman's sign "The Buck Stops Here" and put it on the Resolute Desk. Trump never accepts responsibility for ANYTHING, not even calling the Apple CEO "Tim Apple", but he ALWAYS takes credit, deserved or not.
I see nothing in common between Reagan, a con man for corporate interests, and Sanders, dedicated to improving America.
2
Jimmy Carter took office just as OPEC formed plunging us and the rest of the world into an energy crisis. The Iranian hostage crisis was also not of his making. Trump took office under relatively very sunny skies and has been moaning about the "mess" he inherited ever since. Carter's handling of the Israel -Egyptian peace talks at Camp David was masterful. Compare that to Trumps handling of ANY foreign affairs. Carter sold his beloved peanut factory to avoid any whiff of profiteering on his office.To compare these two in any way is a disgrace.
Who in their right mind is equating Carter to Trump? Yet another apology and rationalization to somehow normalize Trump and make him seem human. Trump is defined by his amorality. Carter, one could say, is defined by his morality. Does that make the somehow the same? This is a reach at best, a clever topic to choose in that people like me will read it simply out of "What?" reaction. But stuff like this is irritating. C'mon Ross. I rather see something on massage parlors and trafficking. Or how about voters' varying views on voter suppression? Sheesh already.
1
Come on, Mr. Douthat. There's no way you kept a straight face while writing that Trump is a Carter figure.
2
despite the column inches wasted on this ridiculous comparison, the difference between Reagan and Sanders is far more simple: regardless of his policies, Reagan loved this country, and showed it. I don't think Sanders loves anything. . .not even himself.
1
Can we stop losing our minds and just focus on what should be an eminently doable task: beating trump? That is the only that matters for the future of our democracy and we seem to be treating the whole affair as a circus.
Donald Trump is no Jimmy Carter. Carter is a decent man who tried to govern with real Ethics. He did get a peace agreement between Israel and Egypt. And just imagine if Reagan had not been elected and ripped the solar panels off of the roof of the White House in 1981 -and the country really delved into energy change starting in 1981. Geez!
2
Ross, no actually, FDR is "socialism's" Reagan. But you conservatives are afraid to invoke FDR's legacy because you know America honors him next to Lincoln and Washington. In fact, you conservatives still call him a "socialist" and his programs like social security,labor rights, high tax rights on rich, GI Bill that provided free college to returning vets, etc. ( btw,LBJ was a New Dealer too, hence Medicare)
You also know that the Greatest Generation elected that "socialist" to a record FOUR times ! I guess America's Greatest Generation was "socialist" too eh ? Western Europe, Canada, Australia loved his "socialist" New Deal so much that they copied it and Reaganism dismantled it.
C'mon Ross, admit it...."socialism is American as apple pie" and Americans love it !
5
Oh joy, a choice between plague and cholera. Trump and Sanders: two sides of a counterfeit coin...
1
How can you utter the words "Trump" and "Carter" in the same sentence? The former has a sense of ethics, public service, andserved in the Navy for seven years. The Latter is utterly selfish, incapable of thinking of serving anyone but himself Trump is not fit to shine Carter's shoes.
to call universal health care, a joint approach to working on climate change, and social security 'socialism' is just daft. There will still be capitalism, all you 'socialism snowflakes' Germany is one of the most successful capitalistic societies in the world, and London is host to the entire worlds banking industry - for now, at least.
So just stop with the 'socialism is the Freddie Kruger of republican' attitude. It is just ridiculous.
3
Optics matter - Reagan looked a lot younger than Sanders, and he presented himself much better.
Bernie is like most Canadian leftists, living in a cocoon, with no basis in reality. When we had a realistic, honest Socialist (NDP's Monclar - who I voted for) he got his lunch eaten by our Telegenic Prime Minister that promised the rainbow with no ability to deliver. To date our PM has delivered legalized pot (versus decriminalized pot) and higher taxes and um, um, um...
The take away - promise the impossible and keep taking those selfies. This isn't Bernie - this is Bob O'Rourke. (In multi-cultural Canada - it's bad form to call an Irishman by a Latin nick-name - cultural expropriations and all)
1
No, I can't follow the "If Trump is Carter" thought at all. There doesn't seem to be anything there. Why say Trump is FDR's evil twin in the Bizarro-world, and see what punditry you can extract from that? I mean, you can demonstrate anything, if you start with any random x=y that comes to your mind.
Sadly, it really feels like the inclusion of (President Jimmy) Carter as an implied comparison to Trump in the subtitle is merely “clickbait”.
1
Such a trite way to frame political life. And again the focus is on individuals, not policy, not issues. Look what the demented attraction to an individual's personality has gotten us at the moment.
And anyways, if he runs, Biden is clearly the Reagan surrogate.
Equating Jimmy Carter to Donald Trump is a sacrilege.
Gross, I'm gagging as I read the lines comparing trump and Carter.
1
He is not a socialist, he's a democratic socialist. There's a huge difference. Why are we conforming to Fox News's warped definition of the word?
205
@George When Sanders and some of his followers, AOC immediately comes to mind, define themselves as socialist democrats rather then social democrats they play right into Trump's hands. Definitions have a lot of practical and emotional power and it's beyond my comprehension how sanders and others do not understand it.
When one define himself as a socialist democrat, the emphasis is on socialist. Democrat comes next. Socialism is a lofty social-economic-political system that failed miserably everywhere. It bred autocratic, corrupt governments who mismanaged the economy and stole what little was there to steal. Venezuela justifiably comes to mind.
When, on the other hand, one defines himself as social democrat, he brings himself to the group of Scandinavian and North European countries who created the most successful, social minded economies, of post WW2.
The fact, George, that you have to explain why Sanders is NOT a socialist points to the problem. Trump will not miss such a silly mistake by the socialist democrats.
5
@George When Sanders and some of his followers, AOC immediately come to mind, define themselves as socialist democrats rather then social democrats they play right into Trump's hands. Definitions have a lot of practical and emotional power and it's beyond my comprehension how sanders and others do not understand it.
When one define himself as a socialist democrat, the emphasis is on socialist. Democrat comes next. Socialism is a lofty social-economic-political system that failed miserably everywhere. It bred autocratic, corrupt governments who mismanaged the economy and stole what little was there to steal.
When, on the other hand, one define himself as socuial
@George
Semantics.
Socialism is socialism and it fails. Always.
3
Sanders isn't a socialist. He's an old-fashioned, New Deal Democrat. Socialism is public ownership of the means of production. Sanders isn't talking about that.
4
Douthat, for a start before you write another column would you define how you see socialism for us? Bernie is a Social Democrat. Look it up. And stop comparing Bernie to the Soviets. It demeans you.
Trump is not trying to build anything except his brand.
Carter may have stumbled as President but he has had the most inspiring post Presidency career in modern times. He is a good person. Trump is a very amoral and bad person. Please do not compare them.
All in all this column wins the Douthat Prize for a jumble of poorly connected ideas.
6
First things first. Author is to be commended for a piece written 2 years ago in which he noted that assimilation, learning the official idiom of 1's adopted country is the highest form of patriotism. Good line, great thought and profound. Re Sanders's chances of becoming the nominee and beating Trump in 2020, I would say they r very good.Latest polls indicate young voters favor socialism, and Sanders's supporters r itching to get back at the Democratic Party for its "coup fourre,"2 years ago when HRC and DWS sabotaged his candidacy for the nomination, and irony was that his supporters were more motivated than HRC's. We might be looking at a Sanders presidency now if Schultz and Clinton had played it fair and square and if SANDERS had remained outside on the steamy streets--Earl Caldwell's words--of Philadelphia with his supporters during that hot spell, rather than genuflect to HRC INSIDE THE AIR CONDITIONED CONVENTION HALL.Regardless of whether his supporters really know about the 2 isms which dominated the last century, fascism and communism or socialism, whether they have even heard of Norman Thomas or Upton Sinclair, they will vote robotically perhaps for Bernie.Just think of the huge crowds AOC is drawing and her 3 million Twitter followers. "On verrra ce qu'on verrra!"
I'll give you that both felt "feet in the mud" political energy(really like Carter anyway) but Reagan was like Santa Claus to the GOP and Sanders definitely not...maybe Biden better analogy
Regardless whether it is Bernie, Kamala, Liz or Beto who ends up in the driver's seat next year, the choice of vice-presidential running mate will be every bit as crucial as the nominee to winning the election. In Bernie's case --and to a much lesser degree, Warren's-- age has to be calculated into the equation. I, and I think, most of us Yellow Dog Democrats will accept any combination, but we're not enough to win it on our own. We have to appeal to the widest possible range of ideologies that don't match our own.
For the Republicans, they could, almost literally (I do believe the VP has to be technically a human being, preferably homo sapiens, but alongside Trump, homo erectus will suffice) run a dog of any hue (except brown or black or yellow) without losing any of the Orange One's base. Nor will the choice of V.P. matter to independents and cross-over voters. Trump IS the show. Anything or anyone else attached to it barely reaches the level of embellishment, and lucky if mentioned as the credits scroll up the screen.
Ross, I truly hope your tongue was securely in your cheek when you penned this. There is no clearer way to ensure Trump's reelection than to nominate Sanders. God help us.
I worked in the Carter administration. He was an extremely thoughtful, intelligent, empathetic leader with bipartisan tendencies - in other words, nothing like Trump.
244
@David
I believe the "ever so slightly" was intended sarcastically.
3
Here is another, albeit meaningless, similarity: Reagan's nomination and victory drove me to leave the republican party and a Sander's nomination and victory would drive me to leave the Democratic Party.
Interesting algebraic equations, Mr. Douthat. Trump = Carter? Reagan = Bernie?
This is one of the most bizarre exercises in the art of false equivalency I’ve ever seen. And, as many have already commented, your comparison between venal, dishonest, vindictive, soiled, hollow Donald Trump and honorable, responsible Jimmy Carter is offensive. Dizzying. Weird.
There’s a simpler way to sort out these men. So let’s try a different equation. Let’s pair Carter and Sanders on one side, and Reagan and Trump on the other.
What do we see then?
Two men, both Democrats, who have shown compassion to other people. (Jimmy Carter is surely one of the most admirable ex-presidents in our history.)
And two men, both Republicans, who clearly didn’t and don’t care about American men and women who 1) benefit from national programs (Medicare? Medicaid? Obamacare?) that use fair taxes to help provide food, shelter, education, and healthcare to those who need it, 2) benefit from workers’ unions, 3) don’t have a couple of million dollars to donate to their campaigns and country clubs.
It’s all in the math.
3
The Dems need to stop being frightened by the Republicans into being scared of their own shadow. As an old geezer, I'm really encouraged by the cohort of young Dems coming up and putting some spine into the party. AOC nailed it at SXSW. Moderate aspirations can only lead at best to mediocre results, or perhaps none at all.
137
@mancuroc: Mediocre results "or none at all" would still represent an improvement over what we've got now.
9
@mancuroc I second that.
8
@stu freeman 30+ years of accepting mediocre results "or none at all" is how we got Trump. Let's give "bold" and "ambitious" a try.
7
I think Bernie is more likely to be king-maker than king, but it's so early in the race that almost anything is possible. My complaint with this column (and others) is about the phrase: "...socialism and right-wing populism contend for mastery...."
Bernie, AOC, et al are not "socialists" as the term is understood historically or elsewhere around the world. The correct term is "social democrat" or "democratic socialist." These American progressives would be centrists in western and northern Europe, and somewhere between Liberals and New Democrats in Canada.
The "socialist" label seems hysterical, though Bernie bears part of the blame for his own misuse of it. And the right is only "populist" when it suits the plutocracy. It would be more accurate to say the U.S. struggle is "between progressives and reactionaries."
Two cents from a grumpy old one-time poli-sci major.
1
Unique prospective. I was with Bernie already contributed to record setting 24 hour fundraising. But my logical reasoning suggests that his protege Mayor Pete is the best choice to be in the top of the ticket. Bernie should be the VP which will allow him to work with senate and get things done.
2
Douthat and many others deride Bernie Sanders as "too extreme" to win the presidency. Please tell me what is so "extreme" about wanting a $15 an hour minimum wage, subsidized higher education and having everyone with health insurance? Most of the countries in western Europe have these in place, and I've never heard of the UK, France, Germany, et al condemned as having "extremist" governments. We need to stop labeling and compartmentalizing people based on progressive policies that a large percentage of the population supports.
4
Bernie Sanders is FDR 2.0. New Deal 2.0. Yes he has come to reverse what has been catastrophic Reaganomics pushed by both sides of the aisle. Trickle down economics is a disaster. Low taxes on the wealthy and meager social programs (austerity) for everybody else has been a disaster.
What millions of people still seem to need to learn is that the Democratic Party is in on it. Very few can be trusted. I believe Bernie Sanders can be trusted to do everything he can to get us back to the New Deal, get us back to the point in which both parties abandoned it, and then build on it from there.
The style of capitalism we are practicing now will only be more and more of a disaster as time goes on. Owners of capital will have less of a need for people as machines can do the work of people...and they own the machines. Of course we have to find a fair way to do wealth redistribution, the alternative is more people dropping to and below the poverty line as opportunity continues to dry up.
An immoral system allowed few people to get way too wealthy (legislators creating an economy that favored the wealthy), we now need a just system to undo that. It’s so obvious to me.
1
Can Sanders energize a broad swath of the Democratic base to turn out while also winning over enough of the voters he needs to take him over the top- the white working class and socially liberal upper income suburbanites.
He can because his political vision is broadly popular. Universal health care is supported by 60-70% of voters. The Green New Deal by 80%, including a majority of Republicans. Free public college enjoys support from 60% of voters. The Democrats need to both embrace these popular policy visions wholeheartedly and work out the details. If Sanders, or any other halfway decent candidate does so, they will win by 6-8%.
2
Many men are taller, smarter and better looking than I am.
A few even have better looking wives.
I have happened to experience a bit of luck on the stock market.
For this, I should be selected out for special punishment and verbal abuse by the ideas of Bernie?
2
I work in the tech industry. I'm a first-hand witness to corporate America's insatiable desire to vanquish the American worker, even at the expense of its own success. I have an expression: corporate America would rather fail with Indians than succeed with Americans. I'm doing quite well for myself, but only because I'm crazy-talented and I've been willing to make sacrifices no normal human should consider. I know how unsustainable the status quo is, even in one of the "good" fields.
I caucused for Bernie over Hillary in 2016, not because I agreed with his solutions but because I appreciated that he was willing to recognize this nation's problems.
Right now, I'm hoping Hickenlooper gets off the fence and comes out with a real platform to match his pragmatic winning record in CO; I'm leaning toward Warren because she's offering a bold but concrete agenda. I wouldn't hesitate, though, to get behind Sanders as the nominee. And I'm confident in his ability to trounce Trump, especially in PA, WI, and MI.
Bernie's shown a willingness to compromise to get things done. Unlike most of his fellow Democratic contenders in the Senate, he didn't use the vote to reopen the government as an opportunity to grandstand; he voted yes.
But above all, we know we can trust him. He's an authentic progressive who isn't beholden to the status quo, unlike well-heeled fake progressives like the senator from Silicon Valley, Kamala Harris, or the senator from Wall Street, Kirsten Gillibrand.
5
Reagan is easily the worst President ever. He helped create the modern GOP that has seen the best country that ever was turn into a failing nation state.
Those of us old enough remember when we called Vermont Mississippi North and it was the reddest state in the union impoverished, uneducated unchanging. For families like mine we knew all too well where we were unwelcome.
I was 32 in 1980 and Canada was well on its way to having a healthy, educated and optimistic population and a healthy democracy and we sensed the USA's growing malaise.
Today Canada enjoys a healthy population, a healthy democracy and its citizens are wealthy and optimistic and America despite all the irrefutable evidence continues to deny reality.
When Reagan was elected my father despaired but he was 70 in 1980 and didn't live to see all his fears realized.
The truth is not always inconvenient sometimes it is painful. America has failed its people and the world. Conservatism and neoliberalism have destroyed your once forward looking and successful nation. I understand your hatred of Carter forty years after his presidency he is still what America wanted to be but because of lack of courage failed to be. Even with Trump in the White House Reagan is still the worst President ever.
4
Sanders basic idea is for the US to copy countries like Sweden and Denmark when it comes to social programs. I think Sanders is out of step with most Americans. The appeal of Reagan was smaller government. To Reagan, government was the problem not the solution. Many people bought into that and still do. A candidate who wants to the turn the US into the next Sweden is going to meet a lot of resistance. Achieving less radical goals may be the only option at this time. I think Democrats in the end are going to opt for a more moderate candidate.
Jimmy Carter has a world view grounded upon religion, hope and good deeds. He was a state legislator and Governor, not merely a peanut farmer. He graduated Annapolis and served in the Navy. He was a civil rights activist. He may have been an outsider vis a vis conventional Democratic politics.
Donald Trump possesses none of those attributes and has no underlying guiding principles except for one: self aggrandizement. He is an outsider to conventional behavior and morality.
There is no rational basis of comparison.
3
@Asher Fried, Jimmy Carter is a Christian Jesus would be so proud of. Trump....even Jesus would cringe... but poor thing he would still ask for forgiveness on Trump's behalf because in Jesus' eyes, we are all children of that one Father...
I never thought I'd see, even a back-handed compliment, from Ross Douthat for any but a conservative Presidential candidate. This column was a surprise.
I appreciate the global comparisons of Reagan, Carter, Trump and Sanders. Ideologically, the two Dems align with each other, as do the two Reeps. (although Trump's package is an angry and bitter one).
What I liked were the power comparisons, which were accurate. The Republicans took a risk fielding Reagan, and it really paid off for them.
The same could be said for nominating Bernie to head the Democratic ticket.
After more than 2 years of daily abuse by Trump, Americans do want a sea change in government. They do not crave incrementalisn and tepid, polite leadership (which, by the way, would not stand up to Trump's lies and bombast).
Americans need someone as tough as Trump to represent what the majority of voters now wants. This would be Sanders. His long-held social values have never wavered, and align with those of the electorate. And he doesn't back down.
The DNC chose an unpopular incrementalist last time, and half the electorate didn't bother to vote -- both candidates were unpalatable.
Sanders is polling well, has established support throughout the U.S., and could definitely beat Trump, delivering to Americans programs they want, which Trump is against.
Socialism's Reagan ISN'T Bernie Sanders, Ross!
A near future where Socialism (e.g. Bernie) and Right-Wing Populism (e.g. Trump) contend for mastery is as horrific to contemplate today as war.
We are facing Earth's decay from mankind's using up the seas and land of the planet. As long as human beings ignore and deny the truth of climate change is as long as a fight between socialism and capitalism won't matter.
1
Wow. I can't tell which is more disingenuous -- suggesting a parallel between Trump and Carter or that Douthat would actually welcome a Sanders presidency. It is true that both Trump and Carter were outsiders who had trouble pulling the usual partisan levers as a result. But, until quite recently, Trump has had absolute command over the GOP anyway, because the party fears his base. And Trump may not have got much legislation passed, but he got everything the party's true base of supporters -- rich people -- wanted. And I suspect Douthat is only cheering Sanders because he thinks an old white male socialist will lose.
4
Senator Sanders is no extremist. The mild liberal reforms he advocates are long overdue. A President Sanders would be a return to the pre corporate Democratic politicians like Presidents Kennedy or Franklin Roosevelt. The fact that Mr. Douthat can mislabel such a moderate program as "left wing extremism" simply demonstrates how radically to the right the whole American political scene has been shifted by the ever growing corporate power.
10
Bernie Sanders is not the leftist reincarnation of Ronald Reagan. He is the Socialist reincarnation of Norman Thomas, who ran against the more pragmatic New Dealer, FDR, four times. Ever wonder why progressive Democrats are called "liberal" (which means capitalist)? That was the epithet Socialists flung at the New Deal Democrats because they weren't sufficiently leftist. Socialists have been trying to take over the Democratic party for generations. One reason Democrats "made America great" in the 20th century was because they resisted the extremes of both right and left in this country. Progressive pragmatism is the name of the game in the Democratic party. Whoever claims that mantle with a reasonable set of highly detailed policy proposals will win the nomination.
3
@Ladyrantsalot
democrats didn't "ma[ke] america great". american working people did so. the democrats simply were trying to do the most minimum reforms possible while ensuring that working people did gain any real power or entitlement to real economic equality
1
Call Bernie Sanders a democratic socialist if you want, but many of us know that his advocacy is actually democratic capitalism. His aim is to spread prosperity & stem oligarchic control of the few from within the prevailing system.
The brilliant young policy analyst Jacob Greenspon has written about anti-competitive horizontal shareholdings & common ownership of banks,airlines & pharma that tilt the scale inordinately from consumers to investors, decrease labor's share of profits due to concentrated ownership and even awards executive pay based on the industry rather than the firm they ostensibly represent; all anti-competitive.
Although Greenspon is a Canadian, young economists like himself are the people Bernie Sanders will choose to implement his policies. Bernie will reform the capitalist system, contrary to the naysayers.
8
interesting article, Mr. Douthat. But it's clear that you didn't get the memo (or the meme, if you prefer): 2020 is the year when the Dems will nominate a woman (other than Hillary) and it's the year, according to the Dems, when that woman will -- must -- win the presidency. Just because Bernie could actually win, is no reason to nominate him.
Besides, your column ignores certain intersectional issues that Bernie has: he's old, white, male, and Omar and her pals would, wink-wink, question his loyalty.
Rahm Emanuel (see his article in The Atlantic) has it right: Thanks to AOC, the Green New Deal, an open border policy, and a policy on abortion that is the reverse of Bill Clinton's, the Dems are alienating (and will lose the votes of) all those deplorable non-intersectional Americans. And allow Trump to win, by default.
5
@Uysses, seriously? You would take advise from Rahm Emanuel?
An intriguing argument, certainly worth considering. I like your way of thinking. What I might add is something left unmentioned and that is Sander's patriotism. This may seem odd, but I detect in other candidates left-wing condescension and hostility. Many of the candidates along with some of the freshmen congress people seem very quick to go beyond criticizing Republicans and conservatives to attacking America, its heritage and values, even, if I may, its soul. They may not be aware how discordant their resentment is. For my generation, such sentiments are intolerable. Sanders, however, never moves in this direction. Like Reagan, he stays nice. It's genuine, too. He is a decent man with morals. He exudes personal confidence and loyalty to American values of decency and fairness. He is a gent. This is not a small thing. Leftists can't see it, but this is what some people see in Trump. Leftists accuse him of selfishness and narcissism, but followers appreciate his love of country. "Make America Great Again" implies the belief that America was once great. Trump believes this and so do some Americans. Sanders talks the old labor party line, 1930s union workers' rhetoric which at heart is based on a hearty sense of brotherhood. The 60s anti-war movement introduced new levels of rage that many Americans found a turn-off. Bernie's old-fashioned patriotic decency is exactly what people found so attractive in Reagan.
2
Folks, calm down about about the Trump-Carter comparison. This is the Internet: got to recognize when one's being trolled and maybe even enjoy it a bit. "Sanders 2020: Accept No Substitutes."
5
Ross, you are missing one other parallel with Reagan--Sanders is a very likable person. Like Reagan he smiles a lot, has a self-deprecating sense of humor, seems willing to modify is more extreme stances, and above all, comes across as genuine---On the debate stage, he will expose Trump for the sociopath he really is and will play into the public's yearning for Morning in America with Bernie.
5
Words have meaning.
What is the point of reading articles where the author abuses misuses labels?
Which one of the following most accurately describes Sanders?
Socialism:
An economic system in which the production and distribution of goods are controlled substantially by the government rather than by private enterprise, and in which cooperation rather than competition guides economic activity.
Social democracy:
A political, social and economic ideology that supports economic and social interventions to promote social justice within the framework of a liberal democratic polity and a capitalist economy.
9
@oldBassGuy: The difference is whether the government contracts out publicly-funded projects and processes, or performs them with its own employees.
Sanders is like Reagan in being the leading figure in a historical transition, from neoliberal centrism to the right or left. But unlike Carter, Trump has a base of two out of five Americans who believe in him deeply. Sanders’ base of young progressives is smaller than Trump’s but more politically active. Sanders has a year and a half to explain his program to win converts, especially African-Americans, and soothe fears. If and when his base reaches critical mass and energy, moderate anyone-who-can win Democrats will join, and he’ll get the Democratic nomination. He needs at least 5% higher popular vote than Trump to win the electoral college and the Presidency.
3
Can we dispel this notion that Democrats have gone too far to the left? The fact is that Democrats of the past 25 years have drifted so far to the right, that they seem to have forgotten the place from whence they originally came, and from whence they were significantly more popular vs today.
Democrats used to be for things like Universal Health Care via Single Payer, higher taxes on the wealthy particularly to reduce the deficit, worker benefits, consumer protections, etc well into the 90’s.
If affordable health care, education, defending opportunity for the poor and middle class, protecting the environment, etc are now considered taboo by the Democratic party, I guess they dont represent my interests anymore.
12
You lost me at "if tRump is a Carter figure"... Just, "NO".
7
Carter: lifelong Humanitarian.
Trump: tosses paper towels at hurricane victims.
Yes, exactly the same. They could be twins.
SAD.
12
How can you compare Trump to Carter? The one an honorable man (Carter) and the other a known liar, shady businessman, etc. A very poor article!
10
Bernie has my vote.
4
Please do not ever again put President Jimmy Carter in any category that includes trump. Thank you.
11
Finally a true picture of Bernie Sanders and what he stands for. Who would have thought that Ross Douthat would be the one to explain how strong and courageous and true to his principles Bernie has always been.
Who should be the VP to run with Berne? Ideally a woman.
10
@Jean
Stacey Abrams?
1
@linden tree islander
She sounds good to me.
I’m currently leaning toward Sanders. My main concern is that, rather than a Reagan figure, he’ll turn out to be a Goldwater.
2
It's time for decent people to stop throwing the term 'socialist' around as if it actually describes any real person's economic views. It's a pre-loaded word, generally used pejoratively in the US.
The United States has many, many economic and civil attributes that are undeniably part of our greatness that are supported by nearly every thinking person that fall under the general actual definition of 'socialism'. We also are undeniably a prime capitalist nation. Those two 'methods' of delivering our broad economic structure work fairly well -- but absolutely require tweaking, like any machine.
Bernie Sander is one of those rare leaders who has the intelligence and courage to help us understand where some tweaking is needed right now.
13
@Feldman Since this opinion piece is at best a game of useless ideas and comparisons, It would be beneficial to recall that it's Sanders and some of his media darlings, AOC, obviously, come to mind, who define themselves as Socialist Democrats and not Social Democrats. It's a gross political mistake that I find difficult to comprehend.
Words and definitions matter a lot. By defining themselves as Socialist Democrats they play right into Trump's hands. The definition immediately, intuitively and comfortably call for comparisons with Cuba, Venezuella and other third world countries who tried socialism and failed miserably. Socialism is a lofty idea that wherever tried, deformed into autocracy, deeply corrupt failed states where inequality was small because there was nothing to share and the little that was, was robbed by the ruling elite.
If, on the other hand, you define yourself as a Social Democrat, you immediately place yourself among the Scandinavian and north European countries who created the most economically successful and people-oriented democracies following WW2. and that is exactly what the middle and poorer classes of America would look and vote for, I believe.
2
Bernie is the problem, not the solution. Trump would love to face Bernie, in fact, he would accept it as another gift(Hillary was the first) from the generous Democrats. Thankfully, moderates normally decide almost every presidential election because we have the wonderful genius of the misunderstood Electoral College which forces a candidate's message to resonate in places as diverse as Wisconsin and LA. Biden is the only person that can beat Trump and Obama will help Biden immensely in that effort.
1
Except Reagan had a sunny personality and Sanders is perpetually grouchy.
2
If anyone believes that the voters in this country will elect a nearly 80-year-old, rumpled, Jewish socialist from a tiny white state who yells and wildly gesticulates when he speaks, please get in touch with me. I have an original Van Gogh painting in my attic I can sell at a very reasonable price.
7
It would be almost as weird as socially conservative voters electing a rude, obnoxious New Yorker who routinely trades his trophy wives in for the newest model.
While I used to think the same thing about Sanders, Trump's election has upended most ideas I have about electability. Of course, Sanders never starred in a reality show. It seems that really raises your credibility these days.
3
If anyone thinks a ultra-tall beanpole, totally uneducated hick from the Illinois backwoods, with a squeaky voice--who didnt even support our war with Mexico--merely a one term congressman--could possibly lead the American Union through its greatest crisis, I have a President Lincoln to point to. . . . Judge the man by his proposals, not his appearance.
2
You lost me at "Though personally the two men are ever so slightly different...."
9
Carter was a decent man dedicated to human rights and one who gave up his peanut farm to avoid any conflicts of interest when he became president. Trump is no Carter, and Sanders is no Reagan. This column is nonsense.
23
What? Carter like Trump? Sanders like Reagan? I'll just say again, What?
Lol I thought I was reading The Onion.
14
Just what we need: Ross Douthat advising the Democrats on selecting a presidential candidate!
9
Probably the best human being to occupy the White House compared to surely the worst. Are you kidding me?
Yes I get the point but not the analogy.
11
It takes gall to use your powerful forum to equate Jimmy Carter, arguably the most decent man to occupy the White House with, inarguably, the most indecent.
23
Sanders 2020. But then who as vice president?
4
@Max Lewy
Stacey Abrams for Vice President. Authentic, doggedly persistent in pursuit of what’s right, strong convictions, morally centered, not corrupted by politics, smart, able to hold her own in debate, extremely likeable...
1
@Max Lewy
Trump. Duh. Peas in a pod.
Trump is the obvious analogous comparison to Reagan...and Bernie is clearly the Carter...an amiable failure who prmosies that Anmerica's greatest days are behind it. Trump will win in a landslide next election with all he has done with tax cuts, border security, lowest unemployment for women, Hispanics and blacks. His bi partisan Prison reform, 20 foreign prisoners brought home...without trading away terrorists to do it. Low gas prices and reduced oil imports. SO many accomplishments and on the other side the dems offer me more years of unfocused witch hunts, obstruction, fake hate crimes, impeachment threats, socialism and antisemitism. NO thanks. I didn't vote Trump last election, but will next election, directly because of the crazy policy of of the once great democrat party.
2
Bernie Sanders is a joke - he's done very little while in Congress.
He's a radical who has no concept of fiscal discipline.
The US has record levels of debt - and unfunded pension liabilities. We are paying $750 billion to a bloated Defense Dept. and $350 billion in interest on our debt.
...and all Bernie talks about is free college tuition, free health care and take from the rich and give to the poor.
He's a loser and doesn't stand a chance of being the Democratic nominee.....if you want Trump in there for another 4 years, nominate Bernie.
The Democratic Party isn't even recognizable anymore.
To put Trump and Carter in the same sentence and draw an equivalency is not only insane but offensive. Carter is the epitome of decency. Why does the NYT give a platform to such a small mind as Douthat? There are surely other non-liberals with intellectual heft that could do the job.
9
Why would a liberal take the advice of a conservative? To be sure Sanders is the best person for the job, but not because he is a slime-ball like Reagan. Sanders actually wants to help people, not be an actor on a fantasy stage.
7
Compromising videos showing the candidate in a friendly relationship with Russia! The candidate is toast!
Ross, why did you even bother with the Carter/Trump comparison, which adds nothing to this piece but is sure to irritate anyone with a heart and a brain? You don't need the clickbait, and it makes little sense rhetorically or as a description of reality.
4
No Ross. You're completely wrong about Bernie Sanders.
Bernie is more like a sad tragic Eugene Debs type.
A Wobbly.
Patheticly out of touch with mainstream America....but encouraged to soldier on because he has an easily identifiable, vocal, and active base of support.
Bernie likes to call himself an independent and has never, ever attempted to participate inside of a major political -party as an influencer(such as the way Ronald Reagan and JImmy Carter did).
worse for Bernie's legacy.....he promised to retire, after being defrauded in the California DNC controlled primary and bought out by the Clinton Foundation....only to discover he and his wife will be dragged into court for some kind of collegiate financial malfeasance.......He comes out of retirement to get re-elected and begin collecting campaign money to help pay the bills.
No.....Bernie is already in the dustbin of history.......next to Eugene Debs.....and the Russian Revolution of 1905.......
How can you have the audacity to compare Trump to Carter? How can you describe Trump as someone who seeks to "build a new conservative majority inside the decaying institutions of the old one." Trump is not concerned with any philosophy. He has no interest in his legacy, at least not beyond his lifetime. He is an egomaniacal man who desires only personal wealth and fame. He is a disgrace to his party and his office. He is no Jimmy Carter.
7
"If Trump is a Carter figure...."
Mr. Douthat is off on a false narrative right from the headline.
Jimmy Carter was and is a tower of morality. How DARE you attempt to put them both into the same context.
9
@faceless critic Did you bother to read to article? Ross outlines his reasoning quite well. If you think he's talking about the morality of the individual, you aren't paying attention.
Sanders could have beaten Trump... It was the visceral distaste for Hillery that made all the difference last time... The DNC must have known this is their core ... but for the $$ that Clinton lent them she got the nod.
My fear is after the Midterms, the Democrats are in grave danger of going too far left to catch the disaffected moderates they will need to capture the executive in 2020.
1
Trump predicted that the Democrats would shoot themselves in the head by nominating an extremist. It looks like he was right.
The Democratic Party, to its own disadvantage, “otherised” and underestimated Bernie’s potential in 2016. Despite all that effort to make him irrelevant, he is a perennial favorite, touching on even some unlikely sectors of support.
Learn a lesson from Vermont: we have consistently trusted Bernie and sent him back to Washington for decades now. That’s because his voice is straightforward and authentic, advocating tirelessly for progressive change so that the little guy can finally catch a break.
He isn’t just a big bag of wind blowing in from the towers of his own selfish ego; and he isn’t a word parsing political hack. Bernie is the genuine article, and as such, has the Democratic Party following his lead. If only they could admit that he has become their lodestar.
5
Sanders/Harris with a “ Yes we can” slogan that will rock the house
It is logically true that if Trump is a Carter figure, then I am the Queen of England. You may address me as Your Majesty.
You perhaps care not to recall that Carter was a state governor before becoming president. He was always a decent human being in office. Perhaps one of the great tragedies of modern times is that he never got to name a Supreme Court justice, leaving Reagan to wreak the full extent of his damage.
6
Mr. Douthat is a columnist and writes to confuse more than enlighten. His education has not taught him preciseness or worse, that guessing wildly injures credibility. Using well constructed sentences to playfully denigrate positions by assigning inaccurate labels to them, if they are needed at all, brings an out of context universe to make an invisible point.
He is hiding the usual traditionalist foreboding that the future will be worse with change. Yet, being a democracy, we are suppose to rely on majority opinion. The polls say livable wages, national comprehensive affordable health insurance, affordable higher education, immigration reform, and affordable housing are priorities.
None of these has the present President delivered.
Voters are looking for a candidate who has listened to their concerns and studied these issues enough to produce reasonable solutions. The ubiquitous response is always how do we pay for bold change. If these changes bring greater productivity, piece of mind, and a more unified nation the country will be in sync with the original founders' hopes, something we all agree with.
1
A completely forced and ultimately weak analogy. Many commenters have accurately pointed out its multiple fallacies. What could possibly be the point of this article, which seems to support the concept of Sanders as an electable candidate? Possibly the desire to stifle other candidates who may be less easily vilified by the right?
The comparison of Trump to Carter is preposterous. Carter was a leader, for one thing, authentic and driven to do right by both parties. He was an exemplary occupant of the White House. I guess, yes, you could say both men built housing units (Trump for Trump and Carter for Habitat for Humanity). And, similarly, you could say both faced opposition in the kind of House (pun intended) and were stymied. But really. Really?
4
There you go again....
Oh the Bernie acolytes are once again gearing up to bombard anyone within earshot about their guy. But at least they have talking points.
But I'm afraid the same issue will derail those hopes yet again - a woman candidate. Women were stung badly at HRC's defeat and you know that saying about fury that hell hath nothing like.
Women such as myself wouldn't vote for her because of a variety of reasons but that won't be valid this time around. (For me, I don't give a wit who you are, if you bluntly ignore my blue collar friends you don't have my vote.) But this year is all about single issue voters.
Women are going to vote for a woman just because she's got two X chromosomes and lacks an 'R' in the parenthesis after her name. To extend this articles analogies..after Watergate the Democrats could have run Mickey Mouse and won the Presidency. They actually ran Goofy, but you get my point.
1
There is only one constant across those years of political debate, when neither party represented the fortunes of the American worker. " Sanders is (suddenly) a known quantity, because nobody doubts his commitment to left-wing policies, there may be less pressure on his campaign to embrace every idea floated by reporters or touted by activists. "
A veritable blackout of news about Bernie Sanders by all mainstream media, left him an unknown entity. That in itself supports his argument that powerful economic interests had been shielded from public view by the obfuscation that this very article demonstrates.
The Canadian social democratic leader whose fight to bring social medicine's medicare to his home province Saskatchewan, the late Tommy Douglas, found it necessary to demonstrate that the old-line parties,Liberal and 'Progressive' Conservative, both representing banking and insurance interests, were best understood out on the hustings as 'Tweedledee' and Tweedledum', indistinguishable when it came to questions of social and economic policy.
There were further entertaining comparisons in his campaign speeches like the one about invisible differences in government by parties of the "white cats" and "black cats." Only when the mice decided to attempt governing themselves would there erupt cries of "Bolshevists".
Douglas, a one-time minister of a little prairie church was after his death voted history's "greatest Canadian" in a country-wide media poll.
1
Also, Bernie will eat away at the fringes of Trump's support. The mid-west farmers who are suffering from tariffs are getting soft on Trump and the factory floor guys are not seeing their jobs coming back, same for coal country. Our infrastructure is still bad and getting more dangerous. And that tax cut? The people are paying for it.
These are men who supported Trump out of financial insecurity and may not like what he does to children or other vulnerable members of their communities. They were not all racists or bigots. They supported Bernie in 2015 until he was out of the race and may well return to him now.
Bernie is sincere where Trump is a showboat. Bernie has a life story that connects with the average person; Trump is a wastrel scion of a wealthy family. Bernie has been a mayor, a congressman and a senator; Trump has been a grifter, a con man, and a cheat. Bernie is honest; Trump, well, we all can see for ourselves.
Bernie is the anti-Trump. He was last time, too. He led the polls right down to the wire in 2016 but the DNC didn't care. Now, perhaps, they do.
"It takes an old cat to catch an old rat." Leave the younger, less experienced candidates for milder days when the stakes are less important.
Bernie 2020.
1
Dude, You are literally the ONLY person in the world to draw a parallel between Trump and Carter. I mean, they’re both carbon-based life forms, I’ll give you that. But the similarities end there.
504
@Jim
Well, for starters, Trumpy and President Carter were human males. Both have been on submarines, one as a warrior and the other as a, well you guess. Yes, they're both 1-time presidents. One lost a 2nd term because of his unyielding morality. The second should for the opposite. One has spent his post-presidential life in pursuit of the betterment of humankind. The 2nd will spend his life in pursuit of the betterment of his kind.
51
@Jim, dude: Bernie proposed tariffs on foreign imports which were nearly identical to the ones Trump did impose, AND they're both carbon-based life forms.
A political landscape littered with these labels: "socialist", "capitalist", "populist", etc...it's a minefield.
3
@Jim
Absolutely right on. Actually there is only a slight tiny difference between the two men. The letter 'A'. One is moral. The other - amoral. Seriously, I found Mr. Douthat's first paragraph so offensive I had trouble reading through to the end of the essay.
34
These historical analogies that ignore an ocean of variables can only be labeled as some kind of pop psychology. Trump is his own twisted phenomenon. The way I see the future is more like 'All bets are off. We're at the mercy of fate."
Thank God I'll be dead before too long.
1
Douthat is preoccupied with archetypes. It’s a pattern in his writing.
Maybe it’s a device for manufacturing discomfort or just a way to facilitate narrative on a tight deadline. But the pegs don’t fit the the holes and any impulse to history devolves into mythology.
For example, this characterization of Trump’s presidency is obviously inane: «... trying and probably failing to build a new conservative majority inside the decaying institutions of the old one.»
Trump doesn’t think about conservativism or decaying institutions let alone a vision of a conservative majority. Everyone knows that Trump approached the presidency as a media platform for promoting Trump. Trump started as a licensing hack leaning on a niche, far-right-populist audience. His win was a fluke, and he’s transformed into a demagogue.
Demagogues appear when democracies face tests. Globalization, climate awareness, the failure of neoliberal economic policies are testing democracy. Sanders is a little too nationalistic in his campaign tactics to know whether he aims to strengthen and advance democracy to address these frontiers.
1
Comparing Trump to Carter is the kind of insult only a staunch and contemptuous conservative could come up with. A hostage rescue that failed to have enough redundancy to survive sand in the gears (literally) allowed the always eager liberal-bashers of the GOP to label Carter a "failure". And NOTHING about the rest of the Carter legacy suggests that he was aware of the good ol' boy sleaze of Bert Lance. Carter, with his values and his religious fervor, is the kind of candidate the so-called "Moral Majority" should be embracing, not the egomaniacal misogynistic demagogue they have foisted upon an outraged and disgusted majority.
And why should we "spare" Douthat the obvious chasm between a sincere socialist with a lifetime in politics to a B-movie actor who switched parties and adopted a faux persona after having watched too many WW2 movies...
Carter's "malaise" speech was 10 times more honest then Reagan's "morning in America", especially for a guy who kicked off his campaign in Mississippi.
4
Sanders isn't even an authentic socialist. He doesn't wanna abolish capitalism, he isn't some radical, he doesn't want workers to fully control the means of production. I like Sanders, and support him, but he isn't socialist. Reagan was a far right extremist who ran terrorist squads in Latin America and waged war against the working class at home. The comparison is ridiculous.
1
Ross,
You may be on to something, our country is sick and tired of the same old do nothing parties that spend their time trying to discredit one another.It’s time for a Revolution & your right Sanders is the Socialist Reagan, that will give us universal Health Care, and stop abject poverty in our country.
1
While I understand Ross's attempt at analogy, to draw equivalence between President Carter and the current occupant of the office of US president is outrageous. Yes, the Carter presidency has the reputation for being ineffectual, but this is not fair. For example, he signed into law the Alaska Lands Act, which placed the single largest amount of lands of any single act under federal protection, more than doubling the size of lands under National Park Service jurisdiction. He had to deal with a hostage crisis in Iran, which his administration resolved peacefully, but without public knowledge until after the election. He was also challenged for the Democratic nomination by Senator Kennedy, weakening his re-election bid. He made human rights a pillar of foreign policy and thought naive for doing so, while our current occupant cozies up to despots and dictators. If our current occupant has to deal with foreign policy crises, it will largely be of his own doing and a direct result of his incompetence, corruption, and self-dealing. Any primary challenge is likely to be by someone outside the center of gravity of a Republican Party full of Trump Toadies. More to the point, President Carter was probably the most ethical person ever to be elected president. In contrast, our current officeholder is the most corrupt and amoral person ever to occupy that office. Can you imagine this guy volunteering for Habitat for Humanity, or leading a campaign to eradicate guinea worm disease?
3
Ross,
You do realize that President Carter was a nuclear scientist and a humanitarian, whereas Trump paid fixer Michael Cohen to bully various schools into sealing his academic records. Under what conceivable logic is Trump a Carter figure?
8
Interesting comparison between Trump and Jimmy Carter.
For all his shortcomings as POTUS, Carter has mire than made up for them; between Habitat For Humanity, and his apoarent success in dealing with brsin cancer, the onetime peanut farmer has become aruguably the best ex-POTUS of the 20th Century.
As an ex-POTUS, Trump,on the other hand, will at best, be looked upon with the same disdain as Nixon.
At worst, he could have the distinction of being the first ex-POTUS to serve time.
2
Pres Reagan described our nation as a ‘shining city on a hill.’
Sanders and most Democrats — true to form — describe our nation as a Skid Row dumpster fire.
They simply cannot help themselves. We’ll see soon enough if their endless negativity sells.
Trump as Carter figure is not even a stretch, merely absurd.
4
I didn't even get past the title of this column. Bernie is not a "socialist", and analogies comparing a Reagan "figure" against a Carter "figure" are too stretched and lazy to be worthwhile.
Try harder Ross, why do you call Bernie a "socialist" when he doesn't call himself that?
2
Oh, please! Using the names Trump and Carter in juxtaposition is such an insult to an extraordinarily decent person like Carter.
3
I'm a huge bernie fan, but please stop giving him all the credit for wanting to return to FDR policies. By calling it socialism, bernie-ism, AOCism, the Times is just fueling the partisan flames that are trying to scare people away from the left trying to correct for a half century of rightward drift.
Starting to put the poor people first? Reigning in corruption? Healthcare and education that wont bankrupt us? If you want to call it anything, call it Sensible.
5
There is no comparison between Jimmy Carter and Donald Trump. Jimmy has served his country and given of his time and energy most of his life. Trump as we all know, is a snake. A man who steals, cheats and lies about everything. Even things it makes no sense to lie about.
Jimmy is a role model and a hero to
me and many others. Trump is Marvel comic villain. To suggest anything else is completely false.
3
Trump and Carter? Relax. This is the same guy who defends the Catholic Church. Of course he makes ridiculous analogies. Just like his base--and Trump's.
3
At first, I thought this was another one of Ross's meandering hypotheticals that lead nowhere on closer reading, but this time, I think he's on to something. While I was never a fan of Reagan, I had to recognize that he radiated optimism and good will- that he seemed likable and that he seemed to like people. These qualities also belong to Bernie Sanders. As Ross intimates, he makes what might well be a political sea change in US politics a lot less threatening than when it comes from his younger political allies.
2
In my opinion, there are only two Democratic candidates who can stand up to Trump in the debates: Sanders and Biden. I have two beefs about Sanders: (1), it is not enough to advocate policies, he has to figure out how to pay for them which he hasn't done, and (2) he does not understand Teddy Roosevelt's maxim "speak softly but carry a big stick." Force has a place in international affairs (although certainly not to the extent the Republicans talk about and threaten to use it) and he doesn't seem to understand that.
No matter what Sanders is, he is mostly a spoiler. Because of him and his supporters Trump won in 2016. He may be good as a senator but he really needs to remove himself from the 2020 race. Too many people in the ring right now anyway.
2
@Rescue2 Oh please, Clinton was pro war, pro wall street and anti medicare for all, she lost because she was a horrible candidate, she could not even win against a know nothing buffoon. It had nothing to do with Bernie.
1
@MDM It had everything to do with Sanders. A great deal of his supporters refused to vote at all in the election. They should have voted and given their support to the nominated Democrat (Hillary). Clinton would have been the best president we had seen since Bill Clinton.
1
I'm going to take a wild guess that these comparisons might have more to do with theories regarding the cycles of generations (i.e.Strauss-Howe) than the actual politics. In that respect it has everything to do with whether Bernie is a capable spokesperson to change the direction of public discussion -- the first since Reagan -- and nothing to do with whether Trump will join Habitat for Humanity. Sanders could do it; not convinced that he's the only one. Just as interesting - and relevant - is the realignment of the political spectrum, something worth further comment from the op-ed folks and the commenters.
1
I disagree with those who say that Americans are not ready for a somewhat socialist President. This is not 1980 it’s 2019. Americans now know that the ‘emulate the successful’ model of Reagan does not work in a society where there has been a massive concentration of wealth to 1% of the population. This was not the case in Reagan’s time. Bernie’s message will resonate with a public that is tired of globalization and the fleecing of the middle class. People are ready for a fairer and more just capitalist system. The Great Recession has made most people realize how rigged the system is (TARP). 10 years later and the wealthy are more wealthy while everyone else is still recovering from it. No, America is changing with a backlash to the New Gilded Age. It’s time to re-allocate the wealth in this country and tear down the dominant tech monopolies.
If we're going to do what right? Trump is not close to a Carter figure. He is an Al Capone figure.
This election shouldn't be about socialism or nationalism. It should be about restoring the rule of law, taking big money out of politics and re-establishing an international order to set standards for trade, global warming and cleaning up the world of WMD's including nuclear weapons.
The swamp has to be drained. We need to re-establish the law and standards of ethical behavior. We don't need someone on the left to emulate Ronald Reagan we need someone left of Center to emulate Teddy Roosevelt.
8
There is a reason Sanders luckily does not have a chance: millions of lifelong Dems , who see him for the populist demagogue mirror image of Trump that he is, will not vote for him.
2
@TMS
Demagogue meaning anyone who is not a member of the ruling class like Clinton or, yes, unfortunately Obama.
If you are propounding principles that you actually believe in, you are not a demagogue. No one can doubt that Sanders believes what he preaches. It may be that in the end, voters will not accept his arguments and policies, but there is no reason to doubt his honesty.
Sanders is not a mirror image of Trump. Trump's principles come down to doing what is good for Trump. He was pro-choice, now he is pro-life. He promised not to cut Medicare as other Republicans would, Now his budget proposes cuts of over $500 Billion over ten years.
I don't think anyone believes that Sanders will go back on his promises the way Trump has.
1
@Andrew Zuckerman
"No one can doubt that Sanders believes what he preaches." Credulous, much?
And, no, demagogue meaning (from Websters) "a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power."
It’s the one of the most fascinating, and completely erroneous, aspects of Bernie Bashing, subtle or not so, by hard right conservatives in their ceaseless branding of the Vermont senator as the dangerous coming of the American Lenin, that in reality his progressive policies are solidly endorsed by substantial majorities of the public. So utterly out of touch, delusionally so, with the truthful state of affairs.
2
There is a useful comparison to be made between Reagan's and Sander's use of high rhetoric. But they differed dramatically in their views of wealth, wealth creation and its utility.
Reagan was an unabashed Any Rand, free-market capitalist.
He felt little for the common man. The AIDS epidemic didn't touch him. Were he president today, he'd have had no trouble maintaining the rule of the 1% as the status quo.
Bernie is a socialist in the Scandinavian way; that is to say, he's a capitalist whose capitalism is held in check by, and in service to, the will of the people.
At present, the will of the people is being trampled by the will of the wealthy few.
This is Bernie's essential point.
In this, he is the anti-Reagan.
9
The problem with the argument is that, however you feel about Reagan, he represented an ideal that resonated with America. Sanders does not.
Reagan championed an image of a self-reliant, individualist America where hard work was rewarded. It was simplistic, for sure, but it struck a chord with the nation that was certainly amplified by Reagan's personality and his skills as an empathetic communicator. Where Reagan asked us to look at the successful among us and try to be like them, Bernie tells us that success results from fraud or oppression, and that instead of emulating the rich we should figure out how to take their wealth from them.
It's apparent now that the Democratic party has climbed on board Bernie's snarling vision-train of a corrupt capitalism that needs to be demolished, but it is far from evident that the rest of America will.
3
@Chuck French
In another words, Reagan was a good actor skilled at creating illusion.
1
How offensive that you would compare Trump to Carter, who was one of the most sensible presidents in recent history.
20
You are right on the money with the analogy. Harris does not have the legitimacy as a left-wing candidate. I think Warren could also work, however. I think that Bernie may hurt himself if he is too complacent and just pitches the same thing he was pitching last time. I think all of what he was pitching are good policies; however, I am not positive that they are the best or even intuitive policies to focus on. I think, for instance, Warren's idea to turn the Tech Monopolies into national utilities is a better idea than expecting employers to implement a market-based minimum-wage system without negatively effecting unemployment. I also think the Green New Deal as an overarching policy goal, is a more germane way of communicating change than just railing against Billionaires, without specifics.
Bernie's core ideas of economic justice are in vogue and they are the future of the party. However, I think Warren actually might have the better vision of the 2. My only fear with Bernie is that he has a handful of main policy proposals that he commits to dogmatically despite their being better and more creative options. In that vein, he needs to not lose his freshness, while sticking to his principles. I would love a Bernie/Warren ticket no matter which one is on top. Obviously, I'll vote for whoever has the best chance of winning when it is my chance to vote, but I would not be surprised if Warren ends up being the era-defining president you refer to. Either way, it's coming
10
Sanders is not a socialist.
He does not believe in social ownership of the means of production.
He is a reformer of capitalism.
36
Not a Democrat either. He's too pure for that. But he'd steal their nomination in a heartbeat. He's a hijacker.
3
@Emil
Marx was a reformer of capitalism as well. There are a lot of critics of capitalism because it as a lot of faults but since it is the only system that works we have to fix it somehow. There are a lot of collections of improvements for capitalism, to socialism, to the New Deal, and so on. Bernie advocates the tried and true principles that we all know still work from the original New Deal legislation but has updated them to todays society. No matter what the criticism, we all know that Bernie's ideas will work and that they can be built into a functioning capitalistic society with little problem. The issue is whether we are going to let Bernie have a chance to fix this mess or double down with the criminal class.
1
I don't begin to see Trump as a politician akin to Carter at all. Jimmy Carter brought a whiff of decency and integrity to the presidency. While he was frequently hounded for some of his shortcomings, perhaps, voters chose him after Nixon essentially to purge the scandals and disgrace of that former president. And at 94 years old, he still strives to make the world a better place....isn't he talking of trying to make it to North Korea to address some of the nuclear issues that Trump, despite "falling in love" with Kim Jung-Un, has failed to do.
Trump was elected because...well, it's hard to truly comprehend the reasons. But he certainly brings nothing in the way of integrity, decency and honesty to the plate.
He was elected by a minority of voters, with if it can be considered as such the good fortune of Russian help, Comey's last minute intervention, the peculiarities of the Electoral College, and the cohort at Fox/"talk" radio hard at work on his behalf.
What makes more sense, Mr. Douthat, is to view the mission of our next head of state as one of restoring integrity to the office of the presidency...the same hope that brought Carter to office after Nixon's fall.
22
Bernie is fighting for a decent future for the middle class. Reagan was fighting to spread horror and death across Latin America.
So yeah. Exactly the same.
14
The left's Ronald Reagan? That's like saying Miles Davis is the left's Ted Nugent.
Makes no sense.
10
A big difference between Sanders and Reagan is that the former has a set of principles he has held to his whole adult life. In contrast, Reagan switched his political affiliation and went from liberal Democrat to conservative Republican depending upon what was most beneficial to him.
Also Sanders is looking to improve the future; Reagan tried to reinstate the past. Remember Reagan got a big start to his political career by opposing that radical, socialist proposal Medicare.
Finally, Clinton did get the Camp David accord between Israel and Egypt which had fought several wars since the founding of Israel. This agreement has held despite all the turmoil in the Mid-East. What has Trump done other than make things in that region worse?
8
Why do I have a sneaking suspicion that rather than a historical parallel Ross is trying to foist Bernie Sanders - and thereby unacceptable far-left vision - on to the Democratic party just to kneecap it?
11
@Haynannu
Trump's real fear is Bernie who could undercut his support in the mid-west considerably and without pandering.
The comparison is wrong and is irrelevant. Trump is neither a principled person nor an intellectual. Carter is an intellectual who is driven by what is good for the community; moral imperative. Sanders is an outspoken progressive whose principles have not changed since early high school days. Reagan is an opportunists and has no concern for the ordinary citizens.
Sanders is committed to the ordinary citizens and Douthat and those who share similar thinking attempt to discredit him by calling him socialist. There is a fear among right-wing groups that Sanders might win or at least his campaign will change the political landscape in the U.S. They fear the young and the oppressed and value the rich and the foolish.
263
@John Globe......People really don't want change .
1
@John Globe Can anyone imagine Trump associated with something like The Habitat for Humanity? Like hell freezing over?
2
Trump is NOT a "Carter figure."
Carter is a compassionate human being who works hard to make other people's lives better. Trump? Just the opposite.
25
@Robin Sanders Thank you. I was going to say the same thing. To suggest the two men have anything at al in common is a deep insult to the great Jimmy Carter.
13
Comparing Carter, a truly good, honest, and scrupulously ethical man (he was bankrupt when leaving office), with Trump, as corrupt as a man could be, is painful and I am uncomfortable with this premise. Nevertheless, Carter was not a successful President because he couldn't get stuff done with Congress - it was his way or nothing, and a fully Democratic Congress was happy to give him the latter.
10
@CT
Carter was ruined by the Iranian hostage crisis, which was the result of actions by previous presidents.
1
Can we please stop pushing the myth that Sanders came close to winning the nomination? He won CAUCUSES. Where his organizers could easily corral a bunch of the bros to get on the bus and scream and yell and intimidate for a fun night out. For proof look what happened in Washington State where his biggest caucus win became his biggest loss in the primary which didn't count. Luckily the DNC is reforming the caucus system which had much more influence than Sanders' other complaints had. I can see the mainstream media making a lot of the mistakes that they made in 2016. Despite that many of them have liberal inclinations, in the long run they will win no matter who wins. And they won big with Trump
3
As a lifelong Democrat I am truly afraid that the extreme left wing of the Democratic Party will push us into another 4 years of Trump.
Look at all the reasons Bernie Sanders, Ocasio-Cortez and their merry band of socialist Congresspersons (and quite a few announced Democratic Presidential candidates) are giving the electorate to vote for Trump in 2020: free Medicare for all, free college for all, confiscatory taxes, open borders, late-term abortions, anti-Semitism, a Green New Deal, reparations, the list goes on and on.
The ultra-left Democrats (socialists) seem to think that those in fly-over land (and quite on few on the elite coasts) are dumb as a stump, and won't realize that these pie-in-the-sky opium dreams are fiscally and politically impossible.
Isn't it time we should all admit that "progressive" really means "socialist?" And, as Margaret Thatcher so aptly put it, "The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money."
Multi-millionaire Bernie Sanders has made an expedient pledge to run as a Democrat, thus almost masking his true socialist identity and intentions. The old-guard Democratic leaders (the really old ones, you know who I mean) seem totally flummoxed by the likes of Ocasio-Cortez.
I sincerely hope the moderates can take back of our party's platform and return the Presidency to the Democrats.
46
@Mal T
I don't understand how as the Republican Party has gotten more extreme to the right, it has been more and more successful yet people say the only way Dems can win is by moving more to the center.
Do you have any evidence that the U.S. has moved more and more to the right?
37
@Mal T I disagree on all counts.
33
@Steve
I can tell you when i hear Bernie, Warren, or any of the others speak about their ideas.........i can't run right fast enough.
These people are truly frightening.
7
It is possible to compare to see Sander's as a Democratic Reagan, but there is no real comparison between Trump and Carter. Trump dominates politics and the news cycle in a way that Carter never did. At least for now, he enjoys a rock hard base of support and is a far better and more effective campaigner than Carter ever was. Anger at and fear of Trump remains the single best motivator for Democrats. Few people of either party had much fear or even respect for Carter's leadership and by this time in his Presidency, most thought him increasingly irrelevant.
Trump also uses the powers of his office as Carter never would, and he has delivered for his base in several key areas, including the tax cuts, two supreme court justices and many lower court appointments. Once can disagree with his policies, but it is hard to say he hasn't accomplished much and had a large political impact.
I got to the first flawed premise and quit reading.
Our President is no Jimmy Carter.
Rather he is Pat Buchanan, a hijacker of an established party (in Buchanan's case, the Reform Party) who bent it completely out of shape in service of his own ego.
Thanks for putting the whopper in the lead, Ross. And now on to the rest of my day!
9
But why do you keep calling him a socialist, feeding into the right's narrative? He is a social democrat. You know there is a difference.
9
It is downright laughable watching old Bernie preaching socialism as we see lights out in Venezuela and the low incomes in Cuba. Since a Socialist could never win the general election, the DNC will once again take care of Bernie. It's surprising you don't hear in the news about how Bernie was cheated in the last election by Mrs. Clinton and the DNC.
1
First Bernie is not a Cuban type Socialist. He accepts private business ownership, a disqualification in Cuba. He proposes tighter regulation, more government oversight of business excess and malfeasance. He wants affordable college and universal health care. It is truly sad that Republicans are able to convince too many ignorant* people of a fallacy, that any actions to help the mass of people is Cuban or Venezuelan socialism. It approaches European social Democracy, in areas like Scandinavia where the people are more satisfied with Government than we are.
Let me give you one proof of the fallacy. Britain brought in the National Health Service, a universal government single payer service in the ‘40s. There have been a horde of Conservative Governments since then. Yet not even Thatcher’s rightists abolished the NHS! So is universal Medicare style healthcare so radical, so Venezuelan?
* I use the word “ignorant” to mean that those I so describe have not educated themselves to what such a term does and does not mean. It is not a synonym for “stupid”. I myself am ignorant in a vast array of knowledge, and in many areas I could cure my ignorance by bothering to do a little research. In reality, however, I’m much too lazy and not concerned enough to do the work!
@P McGrath, Your examples of failed "Socialist" governments are actually examples of governments destroyed by "strong man" dictators much as we have with Trump. Look at the actual "Socialist" countries and you may see something the U.S.A. could be like without the crooks we have running the country at present.
1
Bernie's the cheat. Wouldn't call himself a Democrat and sttll won't, so he got exactly what he deserved. Bro.
Here we have more of it from the New York Times. We are at the brink of committing human-civilization suicide, by igniting continuing processes of climate change. And here is more diversion to labels of "left" and "right" -- and the "moderate" middle of the Neville Chamberlains of our time as we fill Earth's atmosphere with our doom.
4
It’s absolutely tiresome, and frankly I’ve been embarrassing, to see the senior citizen parading around with these crazy ideas thinking you has a legitimate chance of the presidency.
I’m amazed how much this man can delude himself, he should just take the 9% of the vote he’s going to get and go home, enjoy his retirement and relax .....
2
This column is just downright weird.
Trump a Carter figure?
Trump the immoral vulgar con man who will likely wind up a convicted felon and Carter the highly moral and eminent humanitarian in the same sentence?
Then Ross goes on, once again, to show how little he understands socialism and why it must coexist with capitalism.
I suggest he read how the Federal Reserve and Citi Group analysts agree with Karl Marx, Adam Smith and Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez about the inherent contradictions and risks in the capitalist system --- yes, that's right: Marx, Smith and AOC -- and the very same analysts' assessment of and concerns about the gap between productivity and wages over the past 70 years.
https://www.businessinsider.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortezs-tweet-workers-paid-far-less-than-the-value-they-create-2019-3
3
I wish I could say Mr. Douthat is wrong but I’m afraid he is right. Extremism on the right calls up extremism on the left, and vice versa. Incidentally, I think many have misread this column. It is not an endorsement of Sanders but an ironic reminder that socialism may indeed be coming to the US in all its tattered Soviet glory. Reagan contributed to the fall of the evil empire. He did not bring it down - that was done by ordinary men and women who got sick of living in a socialist paradise and marched in millions to end it once and for all. Does America really want a past supporter of the USSR to be president? Russians don’t want socialism. Do you?
Ross should reconsider Bernie Sanders's position as the Democratic front runner. For starters being the Democratic front runner in 2019 means absolutely nothing. Secondly Bernie Sanders is a shameless flip-flopper who conveniently changes his party affiliation from I to D just whenever a presidential election cycle begins.. Bernie Sanders is nothing more than a cynical political opportunist. Only this time Bernie Sanders is facing a crowded field of Democratic presidential wannabes. The novelty of his "free stuff for everyone" 2016 has also faded since 2016.
3
@sharon5101, he will be our first Jewish President.
How about Bernie as the Dems' good angel inversion of Satanic Trump who out trumps Trump at creating a cult of die hard supporters, but does it with the much, much bigger voting cohort of Millennials and younger than Trump's rapidly dying cohort of fat, bitter Boomers? The corporate media do all in their power to play down Sanders, to belittle him, to laugh at his "pie in the sky" platform, etc. But the Dem pros actually focus on the polls. They realize what a serious threat this guy is to do to low energy Jeb Biden what Trump did to Bush. The pros get it when they see the Texas poll that has Bernie statistically tied with Trump in a yuge state that's the furthest right this side of MS and Idaho: Trump 47/Bernie 45--in TEXAS! Bernie polls one point behind Biden, and one point ahead of the sainted Beto. If Bernie is actually that close to Trump among likely voters in Texas, that means he takes FL, GA, NC, VA and the entire Rust Belt. Good-bye not only to all that Trumpism but to Dem Wall St. neoliberalism, too. If Trump can scare the Republicans into lockstep, why can't a Bernie scare the Dems if he becomes equally dominant in their party? Bernie gets this. Trump pulled off a brief "revolution." Now it's Bernie's turn. No one in the Dem field has a tenth of his charisma, just as no Republican could match Trump with the Republican base last time. No wonder Biden's "taking so long," and Beto too.
2
It must have been a slow day in the opinion room. This is a stretch at best. I sort of get it but comparing Carter to Reagan? Come on!
3
Another right winger with an opinion about our party? Go away Ross, don't you have another essay to write about how in California they ask you if you want a straw?
Bernie has a woman problem. He ain't one. I want a woman President of the United States. All these men leaders are awful and only care about wars and selling bombs. It is time to stop caring about wars and bombs only. Or caring about the corporate overlords only.
4
As a first generation, bi-racial American whose parents came from countries taken over by Communists just after the war and where our families land, houses, and business were nationalized, I experienced the America of anti-miscegenation laws, the civil rights movement, the ERA and most recently the LBGTQ movement. Perfection has never been America. But unlike the former Gov Hickenlooper, I am a humbled by the opportunities available to me in America and a full throated Capitalist. The Democrats espouse policies which are in fact the precursors to Socialism. There is no daylight between government control and government ownership. Free college tuition is a the "consumer marketing" version of nationalized higher education - we see how well it's worked for K12. Single payer healthcare does not mean better or less expensive care if controlled by our central government. 70% tax rates mean you work for the government from Jan to Sept before you take home a $. Capitalism has become too successful and people under 30 do not remember China under Mao, the former Soviet block or the other failures of state controlled government. The did accomplish one thing - lower income inequality by virtue of chopping off trees 5 feet off the ground, everyone was "equal" but stunted.
3
Chris, there is one statement that destroys your entire argument. Government control equals Government ownership. Without some level of Government control we have no government ie anarchy. The FDA controls what medications may be put on the market. Government controls how a building may be constructed, how young is too young. Heck, every law states whether government’s control is increased or decreased, every SCOTUS decision likewise.
Saying that social democracy is the precursor to the horrors of Eastern Europe is also not true. Funny Western Europe has not moved inexorably in that direction.
That’s the beauty of democracy. If the people feel that government is sliding too much in the wrong direction they can remove that administration. In Russia, in China, in Eastern Europe it was the permanence of dictatorship that caused the misery.
I think this is a tragic misreading of events. Carter was an honest man who did not fully grasp how to be a good President. Trump is a liar who has no interest in being President except for what he can get out of the job. Sanders has a whole bunch of unworkable ideas just like Reagan. Medicare for all eliminates the private healthcare insurance industry, how does that help those people? Free college for all? How much do we taxpayers get charged for that? We would be better off with a competent President who can work with people to fix actual problems and not a liar who does not care or a dreamer with out a clue.
5
" and because the decadence of American institutions threatens to make every president effectively disjunctive, keeping real realignment forever out of reach".
The decadence of American institutions, Mr. Douthat? Thy name is Trumpism, a fascist movement supported by almost all of our oh-so-pious Evangelicals.
4
Comparing one of the most moral presidents to the amoral buffoon currently in office is a new low in the NYTimes false equivalency contest. Congratulations, Russ, you have overtaken Tommy F. and Dave B., champions of small-minded dichotomies and equivalencies; these are records that no one imagined would ever fall. Then the next comparison: I'm no fan who was named after National Airport, but to adjoin Trump to his legacy is the logical reasoning of a C+ freshman essay. C'mon Russ, you are smarter than this.
8
OK Ross, lets get serious. Who do you really want to be the Democratic candidate? Because it's either a Democratic president or four more years of Trump. And we know you have no love for Trump.
1
No love of Trump? Nonsense. He, Brooks, and all the other pearl-clutchers gleefully voted for him as a death-to-Hillary gesture.
And they're still over the moon.
See that clearly.
Bernie please go sit down! The dirt on Bernie did not come to light as I am sure it will if he should still be standing 2020. He talks well but talk does not make you president.
3
@Wade, talk made Trump president. Even though it was mostly lies.
Not really true that Bernie has so much room to grow. He got 43% in 2016, but then he was head to head with HRC. Now, he had a half dozen rivals for the leftie vote.
We would not even be having these conversations if the wealthy and corporate America had not gone insane with their psychopathic greed, started by Reagan.
6
To even mention the genuine good soul of a Jimmy Carter in the same sentence with the current occupant of the White House, one without any moral fiber at all -- is an affront to human sensibilities.
7
History seldom repeats itself...
But it sure does rhyme a lot
Where have I been these many years? This is the first time I have been made aware of the parallel between Carter and Trump. Carter who was occasionally painfully honest and Trump who lives in a universe of lies. Carter who lives to serve and Trump who lives to steal.
7
Just as in 2016, an election campaign is the wrong time to try to convince an electorate that socialism in a good thing, especially when they never were inclined to think that before. Sanders, AOC and others have furnished one half-baked idea after another and in the process given the Right wing endless talking points to use against Democrats, starting with the mistaken idea that Democrats support socialism. Also, the purity standard that has carried over from 2016 is just as corrosive to the party now as it was four years ago.
1
"If Trump is a Carter figure", he's not and never will be, so this article is essentially "noise shaped air", to borrow a line from Veep.
4
Hey Ross, how about these 2020 tickets: Sanders/Cortez, or if you prefer, Cortez/Sanders since the same good is spread out on the table.
A president and by extension a vice president needs to be 35 years old to occupy the office according to the US Constitution.
3
"his actual presidency also has to be understood (as Reagan’s was, rightly, ...as a success."
Reagan's Presidency had the image of success. A good, congenial actor
It was not a success--we still are paying the price, much as the worlds still pays the price for the boundaries drawn after WWI.
We have not recovered from Reagan's tax policies, which exploded the deficit while setting the stage for pulling the rug out from under the middle class
We have not recovered from Reagan' foreign policy, which included supporting Saddam Hussein while illegally selling arms to Iran to fund his explosive war in Central America, funding and strengthening radical Islamists in Afghanistan* then cutting and running when the Soviets left, rather than rebuilding and resettling and supporting the education of refugees from that war, he left them in camps in Pakistan to be schooled by the extremists he strengthened.
And remember that Reagan opposed Medicare.
Democrats have supported universal health insurance at least since Truman if not, actually before----it is Republican opposition (and people who don't vote for enough Democrats) not "centrist Democrats" who have blocked universal health insurance, raises to the minimum wage, programs to support workers displaced by trade agreements, affordable college,.....
*when I asked Richard Pipes what would happen with the extremists he armed after we drove out the Soviets, he said "we'll worry about that then---9/11 was "then"
9
@Lynn
Thank you! I am so tired of the myth that RR was a great president.
1
Bernie is too old. 79 on election day. If elected, he would be 83 when his first term ends. Reagan, we can remember, had advancing senility in his second term. Reagan was too old. Biden is too old. Trump is too old. I am too old (who cares?). My time would be spent watching TV, doing crossword puzzles and figuring out where to plant the rhubarb. Can't we have a president (he or she) that is less than 70?
2
Love your final line: "Sanders 2020: Accept No Substitutes." Can we use if for a bumper sticker?
1
Other than for the fact that he is likely to be a one term president, the only comparison between Donald Trump and Jimmy Carter is in Douhat’s fantasies.
Carter was a man of integrity. He was president during a difficult period in American history – an economic downturn, fuel price inflation and the Iran hostage crisis – but he handled himself and conducted the nation’s business with skill, honesty and intelligence. To compare him to Donald Trump is to liken a Christian martyr to Al Capone.
10
Is this column a representation of the mental calisthenics Douthat goes through every morning? Comparing the amoral Trump to the selfless public service of Jimmy Carter? Aligning the telegenic Reagan with the absent-minded backwoodsman?
Apart from the obvious lunacy, here's the problem facing Bernie Sanders: he's not a member of the political party of which he hopes to take ownership. Maybe that's his biggest connection to Reagan, the former Hollywood boss who was all about being part of the Screen Actors Guild until he decided he was really all about being for himself. Sanders continues to think he'll be embraced by Democrats, even though he's never lifted a finger for another one while spinning free in his own orbit. There comes a time to make a choice, Bernie--and for you that time is long past.
2
Some interesting points, but I think Ross is straining to make the analogy. The primary reason that Reagan won was Carter’s abject failure in the Iran hostage situation. He blew it badly, and the country didn’t forget its humiliation. Secondly, the Carter presidency was a brief hiatus in a Republican era that extended back to Lyndon Johnson (another Dem who failed in a wartime situation). While Reagan was certainly a consistent conservative (without foaming at the mouth), Bernie has been a professional outsider, with a miserable congressional record, who has spent 50 years hiding in the Vermont woods while scolding and criticizing people who were trying to get something accomplished. Personally, I think this will,catch up with him.
2
Mr. Douthat,
Clearly you are far from enchanted by Bernie Sanders, the Presidential frontrunner, and the man who will surely be our 46th President.
Regardless your barely hidden barbs, and your attempt to compare Bernie to whomever, you apparently are willfully blind to the fact that the American people see Mr. Sanders as a clean clear breath of fresh air, from the pristine mountains of Vermont, by way of Brooklyn, the man who will bring true representative government, of the people, by the people, and for the people, back to our once respected United States of America.
And, it is so heartening to see the staid old Democrats and Republicans, and their status quo maintenance attempts falling apart, to say nothing of the palpable fear in corporate America, especially in the boardrooms of Big Banking, Big Insurance, Big Pharma, and all the other corporate owners of this present, and past several governments.
Yes sir, change is heading down the highways and byways, carried along in the mind and hands of the gentleman from Vermont, Mr. Bernie Sanders.
8
I see Bernie combed his hair for the photo, oh hush, female politicians get judged from their hair to what they wear.
Bernie will get my vote if he wins the Democratic nomination, I'd vote for a red ripe tomato rather than Trump.
But if he makes the general, he'll lose.
3
Socialism worth the name aims to reduce the gap of high and low income to virtually nothing, from something like a thousand or ten thousand to one, to (say) two, or five, or ten to one.
It's a matter of some numbers in the tax tables.
And power.
19th century economics, the materialist caricature of Hegel's philosophy, the PoMo absurdity of the creation of the complexity of race and sex by class structure and power, in a couple centuries or millennia, are concerns for dogmatists and fanatics.
And State ownership of industry is not a principle, but a technique to be used or not, according to its efficacy.
This is real Scientific Socialism, inferred from the hideous experiments of the 20th century
Except for a few thousand pretentious intellectuals (disclosure: of whom I was once first), the population cares about its standard of living. The rest---culture, religion, philosophy---it can handle on its own: or more likely, ignore.
Income equalizing means a revolution: all or nothing.
The only thing worse than no revolution is half a revolution. Which breeds fascism.
Income leveling is all that we need for the concerns of the left. With middle class incomes, the formerly struggling can pay for housing, medical care, food, clothes, recreation---the necessities of social life.
That is, bureaucracies of do-gooders are unnecessary, indeed an unrelieved evil, in an equalized income society.
Equal standard of living; the market; do your thing:
Libertarian Socialism.
Mr. Douthat, you switched your names. Reagan and Trump were the ones illegally dallying with foreign governments, respectively Iran, Nicaragua, and Russia.
8
You've really jumped the shark now. Carter was a saint compared to Trump. There is no comparison for Trump. Buchanan, Andrew Johnson, Harding, Hoover, Nixon, all seem competent, moral and honest now. At the James Buchanan memorial in D.C. there should be a big sign that says "Thanks Donald, I will never be rated worst again!"
4
Did you say Trump has done next to nothing? What about the tax giveaway to the rich? By executive fiat he is devastating environmental protection and any regulations on corporate greed. He has been very good to the 1%, and by virtue of their great wealth they own the media.
So Bernie will have to end run around the media blitz and take his message to the people. Against him will be the fossil fuel folks including Koch Bros. with their cash, Citizens United and their ilk, the healthcare insurance establishment, and the Federalists, to name a few. They buy a huge chunk of influence.
He'll also need a progressive congress in order to get anything done. That's where the will of the people, stymied for so long, may just prevail.
97
@betty durso; I'll say it again. I did the research. Bernie is all talk but no history of any significant action as an elected official. Even his election website was devoid of any significant accomplishments in his long political life as an office holder. He talks the talk but he has never delivered on that talk.
2
@Jeff
He has put forth much legislation that didn't pass, such as keeping Glass-Steagle, opposing war in Iraq, and others that in retrospect look pretty good.
You can look them up. And you can see that they were opposed by powerful interests in each case.
His proposals for affordable healthcare and education for all and addressing climate change are being opposed by the entrenched interests I mentioned above.
But he persists. This time he has the ordinary people behind him.
10
Carter was a man with principles who had been a governor. Nothing in common with Trump. I could not proceed one paragraph from this dubious premise.
6
Please stop comparing Trump with Jimmy Carter. I get (kind of) the reasons for the comparison. But the differences in character between the two individuals--despite whatever historical circumstances brought them to power--are just too great to sanction a prima facie absurdity.
3
Ross Douthat's prescription for the Democratic Party - Sander's in 2020 - is a poison pill, so pretty much as you'd expect from a Republican with Holy Mother Church leanings against a woman's right to choose. But why the Reagan comparison? Reagan for all his faults was witty and charismatic. Sanders is a drone - monotone, twitchy, petulant and scolding. In fact Sanders, in character and his effect on American politics is more Ralph Nader right down to his indifference as to which way the general election goes so long as he gets to repeat his point, over and over and over...
2
In yet another case of false equivalency with the Left, Reagan did not come to his politics honestly. He was a liberal Democrat who considered FDR a hero. He became a Republican in the 1950’s when his agent, Lew Wasserman, wanted a Screen Actor’s Guild waiver to allow him to both represent Reagan while acting as a producer on a television show employing Reagan. Controlling both the talent and the production would, of course, help Wasserman become one of the richest and most powerful men in Hollywood.
Luckily for Lew, Reagan was SAG president at the time, while his wife, Nancy, held one of the other five executive board seats. The upshot is that he and Nancy sold out the union and made themselves rich by approving a secret waiver for Wasserman.
Actually, maybe Reagan was a lifelong Republican after all: greedy and corrupt.
3
Ah jeez, did I just enjoy a Douthat Op-Ed?!
Well done thought experiment sir.
One quibble.
"...his (Reagan) actual presidency also has to be understood as a success." Really?
If success is criminal activity maybe.
"By the end of his term, 138 Reagan administration officials had been convicted, had been indicted, or had been the subject of official investigations for official misconduct and/or criminal violations. In terms of number of officials involved, the record of his administration was the worst ever."
http://www.liberalslikechrist.org/Reasonable/Reagan.html
But thanks for the enjoyable Op-Ed Ross.
Sanders 2020: Accept No Substitutes.
2
Carter had real accomplishments: Camp David, Panama Canal Treaties, a national energy program(!); strengthening NATO. Trump has none.
4
Douthat's likening of Trump to Carter and Sanders to Reagan is a a lame effort to get people to read his column. It's not worth the head scratching. And his glib labeling of Sanders (e.g. "rumpled-professor style of socialism"), which deliberately ignores the fact that Sanders does NOT advocate socialistic nationalization of the private sector but seeks only to build a stronger safety net and address income inequality through more progressive taxation, is downright dishonest. This is not a serious piece, but just another example of a conservative's determination to demonize terms like "New Deal," "left-wing," "socialist" and "liberal."
3
The comparison is astute but I would venture farther and highlight the economic inequality, which is getting more and more extreme.
Whether a socialist or neoliberal it makes little difference because events are heading toward a chaotic Initiation.....
History has patterns that expose the hubris and fancy of those who are sheltered. A storm is on the horizon my American friends which will require perseverance and a quasi religious mi mindset.
Consumerism is rotten.
Careful lefties. The right is pushing Sanders because they know he’s the only chance Trump has at winning. Don’t fall for it.
3
"Of course the analogy is imperfect"
Mr. Douthat is referring to Reagan and Sanders, but the analogy of Carter to Trump is obscenely imperfect. Carter was imperfect, but Trump is obscene, and the anthesis of perfect, in everything.
Everything.
Carter wasn't a very talented politician, had no charisma, and a tin ear, which was not attuned to what Americans wanted to hear, and believe. We didn't want a sermon about a crisis of confidence.
His famous "malaise" speech was a public relations nightmare.
But he was, and still is, a fine, and a very moral man, tirelessly working for a better world. And, for a politician, amazingly selfless.
Trump is not only a disastrous president, he is a disastrous person.....in everything. Everything.
7
Does it matter at all to Douthat’s little theory that Trump’s “populism” is a complete lie? Because he sure plows forward as if it were true. It seems fallacious framing of reality is the lifeblood of both conservative politics and conservative punditry.
4
My strong guess is that Carter has been a much greater ex-President than Trump will be.
6
Reagan had a hold on the imagination of the middle and working class cobbled out already constructed cultural narratives. The word “socialism” for many America conjures up images of bread lines and Sputnik and the Bay of Pigs. Even reasonably informed and educated people I know—moderates— have used words like “disgusting” when discussing their misinformed notion of Bernie’s socialism. I don’t think we are at a place yet where the two can be compared. I will say this, Bernie is going to have a lot of educating to do if he expects to win. If he doesn’t, we can expect another four years of performance art in the White House.
2
Ronald Reagan was our nation’s first true Manchurian Candidate, and for some ungodly reason, we’re all still digging ourselves out from the nightmare that is neoliberalism.
Capitalism is fine. It would be great if the bourgeois would stop stepping on everyone else, though.
1
Big difference Trump-Carter: Energy. Never in a million years, Trump's energy will equate to Carter's lack of it. That alone would make Trump a two-time president.
It would make Trumpians day to have Sanders as the Democratic candidate. It would be like a three-party race delivering the presidency to Trump.
Democrats should start impeachment processes just to exhaust him. Sorry, Ms. Pelosi. You negotiated with the young crowd to step down. Do not give-up impeachment.
1
don't ever compare Carter and Trump. Carter was a good person.
6
Lefties hated Reagan, but not for his philosophy.
They hated him mostly because so many Americans liked he guy, and chose him over two Democratic milquetoasts, and because his policies were (largely) implemented with vast public support.
He was a charismatic, plain spoken, and straight forward speaker whoose opinions were in line with those of most of America.
Bernie Sanders is a shrill and marginal crank on his best day, and no Ronald Reagan on any day.
The Dems have a real problem in this cycle. Everyone they have, is a shrill marginal crank. Everyone.
Never mind every person in the major news knows full well Bernie Sanders is a Democratic Socialist, not a Socialist. Check the meanings at Wikipedia, a quick source, if you must. The reporting will be relentlessly misleading. That its Douthat is no surprise. Mislead and misinform away!
You lost me at “If trump is a Carter figure.” Might as well begin with “If Attila the Hun is a Mother Teresa figure. The contrast could hardly be greater.
That said, if there is any justice in the world (a highly debatable point), trump and Carter will share one characteristic: being one-term presidents.
3
Mr. Douthat, you owe President Carter an apology. After reading your first couple of sentences, I could not read the rest of the column. Mr. Carter is an intelligent, moral, compassionate, humble leader, and has continued to serve this county (and the world) since his first day in office and for forty plus years after leaving office. .
2
Most Americans are capitalists soul, mind and heart. So is Bernie Sanders, who is otherwise quite good at attacking unruled capitalism. There is the connection.
President Jimmy Carter pledged to eliminate the deficit, and during his administration the deficit decreased from $74 billion to $41 billion.
President Donald Trump pledged to eliminate the deficit, and during his administration the deficit increased from $585 billion to an estimated $984 billion.
What kind of commentator could call these two administrations "analogous"?
The same kind of commentator who would say that at "the beginning the presidency of Donald Trump," when it was not known what Donald Trump would accomplish, it was already known that he would accomplish "next to nothing".
The same kind of commentator who would urge people to break their promises:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/12/opinion/you-must-serve-trump.html
1
I had to stop reading when the author inferred Trump pushes an ideology.
It's just narcissism from winning at all costs and self-transaction.
We get all the caveats on the Trump-Carter comparison - a moral retrograde, humorless narcissist, blowhard and thief vs a kind souled and humble and deeply religious man. But the comparison brings to mind what a post Presidency Trump will be doing, along the lines of Carter building homes and fighting eye disease in Africa. (After his 2 years in minimum security prison - maybe just an ankle bracelet at Mar a Lago?) Rebooted XFL commentator, or commissioner? Like Nixon's late life revival, a respected elder statesman for third world authoritarians? A "We are the World" concert series promotor for released sex offenders? We can't wait for Bernie to boot him, just to see the possibilities.
2
This is the most wrongheaded article I think I have ever read in the NYTimes.
Taking a few superficial characteristics and painting Jimmy Carter as being like Trump, and then looking at Bernie Sanders and playing at his being Reagan...no, just no.
Each of the four are, or were, individuals, who carried the day with their own words and ideas.
Don't look at the leader in this instance, look at the voters who are, or were, desperate for a champion. In that, Bernie and Reagan are spectacularly different.
I guess I am railing at the fact that in this article no one is really taken seriously, rather they seem to be clowns.
American politics isn't a clown show, present President notwithstanding.
It is a deadly serious survival attempt by a lot of people in a rather damaged lifeboat, the USS Democracy, and if it sinks, so sinks the hopes of humanity.
Hugh Massengill, Eugene Oregon
4
The Brits are finally waking up to the reality of Corbyn, and Labour is suffering heavy defections.
I hope people in the States, drunk on Bernie Punch, finally realize that he is not the solution. The Bern will never win a red state. And the purples are doubtful too.
At his core, Jimmy Carter was and is a fundamentally decent human being, a person we all refer to as a good man. At his core, Donald Trump was and remains a warped human being, a person next to no one refers to as a good man. Compare the two presidencies if you wish, but never conflate these two men.
3
I can only read sentence number 1, and claw part-way through sentence 2. Jimmy Carter - the country wasn't successful enough to be worthy of him.
3
How anyone could make a comparison of Trump and Carter is mind boggling .
Carter is a honest moral person .
When I think of Carter my first thought is of a humble caring man . I couldn’t finish reading the article because it was a ludicrous comparison.
6
It’ll be interesting to see what lengths the New York Times will go this time around to undermine Bernie’s populist appeal. Bernie will never be sufficiently corporate to mollify the corporate interests of the New York Times, and I think we can count on the Times picking up where the Democratic Parry left off in regard to Bernie.
2
How dare Douthat compare Trump to Carter. Except for being outsiders there is no comparison. Carter was dedicated to service of his country, smart and stood up to the Russians. Trump is dediccated to serving himself and tearing the country apart.
6
I see your conceit, but please do not compare Trump to Carter in any way. One of the worst characters in the presidency and one of the best. Please.
2
Boy do you have it wrong
While I detest trump, he is and will go down in history as a most consequential president. Our courts and moral standing with the rest of the world are but 2 examples.
Sanders has spent his career accomplishing nothing while having a position on everything.
2
@Brad
Yes, trump will be consequential, in a similar vein to, say, Mao, Pol Pot, and Stalin, to name but a few of 20th-century history's most infamous leaders.
4
@RickyDick
and Douthat says "accomplished next to nothing"
1
Compare Donald Trump with Jimmy Carter? OK.
Carter: successful family business; never in trouble with the law or the tax man.
Trump: racist red-liner; serial bankruptcies; wastrel of magnificent proportions.
Carter: served with distinction as a naval officer in WWII.
Trump: served with distinction as a playboy par excellence when his bone spurs didn’t hurt.
Carter: married Rosalyn Carter who’s still his wife.
Trump: serial wedder and bedder of wine of dubious repute.
Carter: governor of Georgia.
Trump: no public office.
Carter: man of faith without being doctrinaire and unpleasantly aggressive about his faith.
Trump: man of boundless faith in himself.
Carter: courageous enough to fire a long-time friend (Andrew Young) for freelancing Middle East policy.
Trump: forced to fire subordinates because they got caught, not because they were grifters.
Mr. Douthat, you lionize Ronald Reagan as a “success.” Was he blamed for the Marine barracks bombing (Lebanon, 1982)? Was he impeached for Iran-Contra? Was he criticized for negotiating the release of Iranian hostages while Jimmy Carter was still in office? And how has “trickledown” worked for the average American?
Bernie Sanders has ideas that have never been attempted? Republican capitalism has failed everyone except the wealthy and the lucky—like Donald Trump
Finally, Jimmy Carter built his wealth from the soul. Donald Trump inherited his—and threw it away. Like he’s throwing away our country.
8
I cannot for the life of me imagine why anyone who supports Bernie Sanders would support Biden first. They are extremely different politicians with vastly different voting records. Biden is the ultimate Washington insider and Bernie was the uninvited guest at Hillary's coronation tour in 2016- just ask the Hillary supporters still spewing bile at any mention of Senator Sanders being the nominee or President.
Something largely ignored in the pages of the NYT has been the struggle for control of the Democratic Party in the time after Hillary's defeat by Trump and the long faces at the Javits Center under the glass ceiling that did not break. Many people energized by the Sanders candidacy got involved and pushed for rule changes such as reducing the number of Super Delegates and keeping them from even voting on the first ballot- a substantial change that would have kept Hillary from a first ballot nomination in 2016. Many people who supported Bernie have since gone on to run for office or take positions within the Democratic Party apparatus or work in organizations like Justice Democrats and Brand New Congress. The party in 2020 will be very different than the one in 2016.
93
@David Gregory HRC supporter here who will vote for Bernie in the primaries. If you want HRC supporters to stop spewing bile, get Bernie and his supporters to do a bit of explaining about why Bernie wasn’t more supportive of HRC in the general election, why Bernie supporters sat out the general and Bernie’s record on underpaying women.
There was an awful lot of bile that continues. Voters didn’t control DNC candidate selection rules, we didn’t squelch Bernie and we don’t control the media.
Let’s get over 2016 and move forward together already.
13
@David Gregory Glad to hear that many Bernie supporters came out of the 2016 campaign and took positions within the Democratic Party. Unfortunate that Bernie still is unwilling to be a part of the Democratic Party. Sort of feels like the local Superintendent of Public Schools that sends his own kids to the private school up the road. So, explain to me why we Democrats are supposed to turn over the party to a guy who finds Democrats, as a group, so abhorrent that he will not even join the organization? I would be much more receptive to his message if he hadn’t implicitly denounced the Democratic Party his entire adult life.
10
@Lee N
He caucuses with the Democrats as he always has- and that counts toward determining majority status. He is also not a member of the Democratic Party, but the Democrats in the Senate and House have seen fit to appoint him to committee assignments to include being a Committee Chair or Ranking Member.
Do not get so hung up on party membership. Few of the people who vote for Democrats are members, either.
15
In order for this analogy to work, who is the modern day Ted Kennedy of the Republicans? What popular Republican will run against him and y torpedo Trumps reelection bid as Teddy did to Mr Carters?
I cannot see any Republican in todays RP, childishly refusing to embrace their incumbent while seeking to make the Convention all about him at the party's detriment as Mr Kennedy did.
You can say alot of awful things about the RP but one thing they do is all get behind their candidate and message. One can honestly say, Teddys ego wouldnt allow him to do that. but if he did we probably would never have had Reaganism.
21
@Sara
William Weld is running. I wish him luck in his quest to dump Trump.
4
@rich Who is William Weld?
2
@Sara John Kasich? He seemed the sanest Republican in the mix in 2016. Maybe he will run again.
1
At the risk of sounding pessimistic, I see a closer historical analogy to 2020 in 1972 than I do for 1980. Substitute Richard Nixon for Donald Trump, George McGovern for Bernie Sanders, and (less perfectly, I know) Hubert Humphrey for Joe Biden. The president didn't have high approval numbers even though the economy was coming out of a recession, and his party lost seats in the 1970s mid-term elections. The Watergate break-in had happened in June, but it seemed almost no one but the political junkies were paying attention yet. And Richard Nixon, the man nobody loved and who had barely won in 1968, won everything except DC and Massachusetts en route to a landslide re-election.
All that said, I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
@charrisd
Valid points. But I can't imagine a group calling themselves "Democrats for donald" analogous to Democrats for Nixon. (I hope I am not being naive!)
1
This article is very wrong from a political standpoint and obscene from the standpoint of presidential character. The key to the Carter presidency is that he was chosen largely in response to the Nixon administration's corrupt misdeeds and nastiness. Carter was the most honest and moral president of recent decades. His was not an ideological presidency. His goal was to cleanup government and put an end to wasteful pork barrel politics. That was his undoing. The powerful Democratic committee chairs chose to destroy him in order to preserve their fiefdoms fueled by pork. Trump is the lowest character president we've had in many decades. While Carter was undone by his party leadership, Trump has had the slavish support of R congressmen and party leaders.
Don't be surprised to see the public seek honesty and personal character in our next president, the same sort of switch we saw from Nixon to Carter.
9
@allentown
"Don't be surprised to see the public seek honesty and personal character in our next president, the same sort of switch we saw from Nixon to Carter."
I believe that was Douthat's point. No one doubts Bernie's sincerity. He is the real deal, an FDR for our time.
1
As an apolitical and non-practicing progressive liberal of the center, I never understood how could Bernie Sanders, a dyed-in-the-wool socialist and descendant of East-European Jewish immigrants, be adopted by Vermont and rise within the Democratic Party. Furthermore, Sanders has spawned a new generation of leftist radical trouble-makers, some of them with the political profiles -- so far, only on paper -- of US enemies.
1
@Tuvw Xyz
Oh, baloney. You obviously don't know the history of Sanders in Vermont. And your designation of "leftist radical troublemakers" by an "apolitical & non-practicing progressive liberal of the center"? It makes me wonder what your real history is.
The current resident of the White House does not belong in the same sentence as the honorable president Carter.
21
Neither Sanders nor Biden offer anything new or exciting. Both are ‘old school’ in both ideology and appearance.
Both are a very safe bet that with their past experiences, they won’t do something really stupid regarding domestic or foreign policies, but neither of them offer something new and exciting.
Enter Beto! He could bridge the huge gulf between teams of Red & Blue! I really like Kamala, but she’s got several really difficult enculturations to overcome for a general election; race & gender. Is she ready for Prime Time?
Here’s my prediction. Both Sanders and Biden will hold an equal amount of delegates in the beginning, but sooner or later, Democrats will have to decide who’s going to carry the torch and beat Trump. Out of nowhere, a dark horse slips by the two of them with one singular goal; BEAT TRUMP at all costs and wins the nomination.
1
@Eric Cosh
Beto is interesting, and my guess is that he could appeal to both Trumpites & Dems because he's young, attractive, and articulate. I wonder what his limits are.
How radical is Bernie's socialism?
Do you wince when you think of how much of your income goes to health insurance premiums, deductibles, co-pays, prescriptions? Do you avoid medical care because of costs?
Are you burdened with college debt? Terrified about how to pay for your children's college education?
Do you struggle to find affordable daycare? Do you find affordable daycare is an oxymoron?
Are you afraid to take time off work to care for aging parents or a sick child because you could lose your job?
Are you working two or three jobs, none of which have health benefits, retirement benefits or job security; working 50, 60 or more hours a week and still struggling to make ends meet because you earn a non-living wage?
Do you like paying a higher percentage of your gross income in taxes than Donald Trump? Oh, that's right we don't know if he pays any taxes.
Bernie's socialism is not your grandfather's socialism. It is not government ownership of industries, production and property. European socialism is capitalism harnessed to serve the working class.
Bernie's socialism is capitalism with a conscience. It is the recognition that government can/should regulate capitalism to serve all of The People, unlike Reagan's Republican unregulated capitalism which fomented a parasitic burden on The People for the benefit of the wealthy.
Is promoting health and welfare of The People too radical an idea for Americans? Or is America too misinformed by Republicans and their owners?
25
@JABarry: Trump is considered a hero for paying no taxes.
Please do not compare Jimmy Carter, a man of integrity and compassion, with the current president, a broken human being who lacks both integrity and compassion.
27
@Joanne H
I think you misunderstood Douthat's reasons for comparison.
2
Another Reagan/Sanders comparison, ego. Sander's ego may be even bigger than Reagan's. He doesn't care that he did a 'Kennedy' on Hillary, but chipping off her support in the primaries like Kennedy did to Carter, he doesn't care that he's a caricature of himself that even a Trump size brain can handle with insults, he doesn't care that he's going to energize Schultz into action, he just cares about his ego.
4
@Richard Mclaughlin
The fact that there are still people blaming Sanders for Hillary's loss blows my mind. When will the Democrats accept responsibility for the fact that they nominated a weak candidate, and it's their own fault they lost?
3
@Richard Mclaughlin
Please write a letter to Hillary. She needs to let you folks off the hook. Sanders' supporters were never Hillary supporters. Yes, most of us held our nose and voted for her, but it is arrogant to claim that she was "owed" our votes just as it was arrogant to believe that this was "her" turn. Voters are free to chose. Unbelievable, I know, but it is true. It is called democracy.
As for Schultz, he is a sideshow whose brand may take a hit for his hubris in thinking that the United States is just a huge coffee shop.
@Richard Mclaughlin, that narrative, Sander's ego is straight out of the media hit job, that was advanced during the 2016 campaign by those beholden to Hillary's campaign. This includes NYT. So please do not post false rumors based on media's perception of Bernie motivated by malice and jealousy (they were astounded that he was drawing so much crowd and they falsely attributed it to "free stuff" and Bernie's ego). Sheesh.
1
A better question: who will be Ted Kennedy, and challenge the out of step incumbent in his own party?
3
We can tell when Bernie is doing good, Doubthat is at the top of the front page. In our view, Bernie is always front page material, most of your readers are of a 'for the people' class that dominate most of the comments. On age, Bernie will have a running mate that will be younger and most assuredly a peoples choice. We will be voting for both, it is necessary for strength. The combination will be strong, not like Clinton/Cain. Bernie has no ego making the choice and can choose for the people. Someone like "Pete', wouldn't that make a statement?
Democratic Socialism benefits Society, not corporations.
4
@s.whether
Warren for vice president. She's one smart cookie and as genuine as Bernie himself.
Surely you jest (and don’t call me Shirley) . 79 and 71 as a ticket. If Bernie or warren or Biden heads the ticket the Veep would need to be a younger person ( and I didn’t mean because everyone else IS younger!)
I will vote for, donate to, and help however possible whoever the Democratic nominee is. End of story.
6
Mr. Douthat, please take a vacation. You need one. Just the title of this column suggests a bad analogy.
To compare Jimmy Carter, an admittedly flawed president who worked to achieve peace in the Middle East and continues to help house the poor, with Trump is . . . laughable. To compare a lifelong democratic socialist with an actor-convert to right-wing politics compounds the absurdity.
Take a break.
11
Let’s start with your first sentence. I must be out of touch, because I can’t think of any inspiration to compare Donald Trump to Jimmy Carter; unless you are indulging in a Sophist mental exercise to find similarities in people who are as dissimilar as possible. And to what end? Turning reality inside out is not clever, it’s confusing and certainly not predictive of Bernie Sanders winning the next presidential election.
7
@jim frainI
It's called obfuscation, a paid for form of sophistry.
The NYT could barely bring itself to acknowledge Bernie Sanders as a candidate in 2016 and now, in one of your few articles on Bernie you superficially focus on his age and make meaningless comparisons with past Presidents. When the Debbie Wasserman Schulz was exposed for rigging the DNC nomination in favor of Hillary, it was glossed over. Please give the man his due.
I remain convinced that Sanders would have beaten Trump in 2016.
16
"From the beginning the presidency of Donald Trump has inspired analogies to the years of Jimmy Carter. Though personally the two men are ever so slightly different"
Yeah, Jimmy Carter has a soul.
31
Tell me about it. Try to imagine Trump spending his retirement working for Habitat for Humanity.
248
@Ned Ludd
Are you the restaurant in Portland, OR? No, Trump would never work for Habitat for Humanity. Evah. Carter's roots were in the people, his peanut farm, his religion and he lives it and abides by it. Trump does nothing for anyone else. Nothing.
2
May difficult for him to work for Habitat from inside a Federal Prison or Sing Sing ( New York State penitentiary)!
3
The comparison Ross offers is attention grabbing because both Carter and Trump often have looked like a drowning man, flailing around looking for both support and answers, and finding little of each. A lot of Republicans and Independents that are disgusted with Trump would vote for Bernie and would be happy to have an honest non-pandering President in a divided government environment. That could be a win/win that forces compromises that neither side could ever stomach if they were solely calling the shots, and could be the prescription for dealing with solving social issues and bending the curve on thee national debt. Many won't acknowledge that at his age there are going to be health and age concerns, so hopefully he doesn't kills his chances if he wins the nomination by making a bad VP choice that was put together by some consultants to balance the ticket. That thinking instantaneously torpedoed John McCain who was in a similar situation to Sanders in some ways. Sanders doesn't need someone in lock step with his positions, it is more important that if he wins the nomination that he has a competent truth teller alongside him that the country could be comfortable with , and ready to step in if ever needed. He won't find those qualities in those likely to be fellow front runners, with at least a few of them trying to catch fire with poll tested, newly hatched convictions
1
There was a giant factor in Douthat column that was left out concerning the 1980 election: the Iran hostage situation. It sunk Carter any chance of getting reelected.
In addition, I remember Carter being very cozy to Bert Lance, a notorious wheeler and dealer. Having said that, Carter has led an exemplar life since.
So what did I do, I voted for Anderson, an Independent. My brother told me prior to the election that Anderson would not receive more than 5% of the votes. He was right but I felt good anyway!
4
Well said, Ross. I find the younger candidates to be less trustworthy on coomitments to principles. That is, they will if elected, pull an Obama and cave to the establishment at the first rough patch throwing hope, change and all their loyal volunteers under the bus. Time to send another $27 to President Sanders...
3
He helped to bring Hillary down. Good job.
Why would we choose reasonable Elizabeth Warren, if we can have an exciting Bernie?
Down with substitute Warren.
1
@polonski, nope Hillary lost because of her campaign's mis steps in: PA MI WI and OH. Nothing else mattered, no other excuses needed.
If anything, Bernie opened our eyes.
3
@polonski
Silly comment.
No one is putting Warren down.
A Bernie - Liz or Liz - Bernie ticket would be my dream.
The order is just alphabetical btw.
1
@Blunt
Smart comment.
No one is putting Bernie Down.
A Bernie - Biden or Biden - Bernie ticket would be my dream.
Caring about order is anti-socialist, I guess, so let's not care.
25% of Americans do believe Earth is a flat disk, Donald thinks global warming doesn't exist. We just need 51% of Democrats to believe Bernie is the guy to complete the picture.
PS. The New Deal was the best thing ever done, Europe included. Why promote it when you have an exciting wild goose chase trying to nail Socialism?
Down with Roosevelt! Up Sanders!!
Like Godfather said: "Only in America"
1
Mr. Douthat's effective endorsement of Sen. Sanders is based on Douthat's assumption that Trump is like Carter. In 1979, the year before the 1980 election in which Carter lost to Reagan, Carter was twice at an abysmally-low 28 percent approval rate, in June and October. That drew a primary challenger, Ted Kennedy, and a third-party candidate, John Anderson. Ayatollah Khomenei and the inflation rates also did their parts to undermine Carter. Paul Volcker as Fed chair starting in 1979 jacked the interest rates to break the back of inflation -- and also undermined Carter's chances for reelection.
Trump has none of that sort of trouble. He will not be primaried by anyone serious. He will not face a serious third-party candidate. Inflation is low. His approval ratings, though not especially high, are not especially low like those of Carter. If it comes down to Trump v. Sanders, Trump will look more like Reagan than Carter on November 3, 2020.
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There is a wonderful inverse symmetry, and it makes me hopeful. However, there is a disturbing detail: the economy. Reagan benefited as a new cycle led to an upturn in the economy. Whoever wins in 2020 will likely inherit an economic crash of monumental proportion. It is a grave pity Bernie didn't win in 2016.
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What's the difference between Sanders and Trump when it comes to the trade war and protectionism? Both have short-sighted views of the world economy; they both endorsed protectionism in the previous campaign. If anything, Sanders only invigorated the support for Trump. Sanders praises socialism as if it were some solution to the U.S. economy but socialism is dead in Europe. Why do we need to talk about that kind of vague, unscientific, old-fashioned ideology when we can instead talk about concrete policies? Only in the U.S. do people still talk about socialism vs capitalism. What do you mean by that? There are many different meanings of those ideologies, and we will only be trapped by useless semantic battles. Unless you endorse the U.S.S.R. style socialism (like Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea), there is no point of even using the term 'socialism', because what you mean by 'socialism' in such a case will be totally synonymous with 'capitalism'. Who says that capitalism objects to public healthcare, safety nets, public education? Only people like Trump and Sanders would say so, because they have a wrong idea of what is meant by 'capitalism' and 'socialism'. That's why it is useless to talk about those ideologies in the 21st century. Only Americans who are 30 years behind the world trend still talk about socialism vs capitalism. Please talk about concrete policies with detailed measures. Be scientific when you do politics.
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@Sunny
U.S.S.R., Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea...
Are these countries dysfunctional because they are socialist? Or because they are corrupt?
It is funny how the free-marketeers always forget Sweden, Norway, France and England are strongly socialist as well.
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England does not have a government, Britain does! How many Scots, Welshmen and Ulstermen do you malign! Also Teresa May, David Cameron, John Major and Margaret Thatcher might take issue with you calling Britain socialist, and de Gaulle and his successors would do the same in France!
Bernie Sanders, and a number of other policy thinkers (including several also running for POTUS) get tarred with the broad brush of "Venezuelan style socialism" because the oligarchic libertarians out there have captured enough of the airwaves to constantly blare their highly inaccurate characterizations, basically because they fear having their tax rates raised.
I have written many times that what Bernie and others propose is not only quite mainstream in Europe/Australia/New Zealand etc., but it used to be much more mainstream here--in fact, it used to be called the platform of the Democratic wing of the Democratic party. (I'm old--I actually remember this.)
Still, words matter, and a lot of people find "socialism" as a term toxic, so I've proposed that we start talking of "Social Capitalism", which is a lot closer to what is actually being proposed and what goes on in France, Germany, Sweden, Denmark, et. al. It's a system of private enterprise with regulations to even the opportunity field and a commitment to certain basic levels of health, education, housing and other services--and these are to be universal, not means tested, in order to promote maximum buy-in.
I suspect the first POTUS candidate that starts uttering the phrase and then explain what it entails is going to get a substantial jump in support.
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@Glenn Ribotsky
The economic systems of Germany, Netherlands, Sweden, and France are not "socialist" in any interesting sense. Who says that those systems are socialist? It is just appalling to see how wrongly American people use the terms 'socialism' and 'capitalism'. Can you prove that capitalism is incompatible with public healthcare, public education, and other safety nets? If you think those two are incompatible, it is because you are American; you have a wrong idea of Republican capitalism. In other words, you are ensalved by Republican capitalism. Capitalism, as it was meant by Adam Smith, does not mean an economic system which objects to the well-being of a large community. What do you think the title of Adam Smith's book? It was 'The Wealth of Nations', not 'The Wealth of Individuals.' The rest of the world does not want to go through the re-run of ideological war between socailism and capitalism just because Americans are so ignorant of what happened in the 20th century. The rest of the world is done with that kind of game.
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I was never a Reagan fan.
But one big difference between Reagan and Sanders is that Reagan actually was successful at a ........job.
Sanders hasn't. He can't really cut it in the real world, never could. He's always been a politician. He talks like he knows what life is like for ordinary people, but he's never had to actually live an ordinary life, where he got up every morning and went to work. And where he was successful in that job, got raises, etc.
We have seen what happens when we have a President who never had to be successful at a job. ( I mean, who can't make it in the world when Daddy has given you millions of dollars?)
Neither Sanders or Trump understand what real life is like. Both live life in their own minds instead of in the real world.
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@Dan You might be right about Sanders, but what successful "job" did Reagan have that gave him a feel for "ordinary life"? Hollywood? Financially, he was propped up by millionaires before and after his presidency.
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Oh Dan,
“Reagan was successful at a job”. A job? He was, by the way actors are graded, not that successful. He was no A list star, no Cagney, Bogart, Cooper or Gable. He had a range which ran the alphabet...from A to B as someone once accused Katherine Hepburn ( a much greater star). Oh and he was a paid Spokesman for GE (another acting job). Neither of these occupations, it would seem to me, would give him the world view of the average man.
Bernie has indeed spent many years in politics but prior to that (according to Wikipedia) he had a wide variety of jobs including Union organizer, writer, teacher, and carpenter). True, since he first got elected Mayor of Burlington he has constantly been in office, but that would seem to indicate that Vermonters like the job he’s been doing.
@Dan
Bernie has certainly had an extended education in what used to be called the school of hard knocks. Growing up in a family of four living in a three (and a half) room rent-controlled apartment gives one an early education in prudent choices.
You also dismiss his eight years as a popular mayor of Burlington who was hated by the city's political class. He developed a lovely waterfront park that is enjoyed by all, prevented an affordable housing complex from becoming luxury units, brought dental care to poor children, and revitalized the city. He did this while being understaffed because he had the equal of Mitch McConnell fighting him every step of the way. If that isn't work, what is?
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' And there are good reasons, conservative and otherwise, to doubt that a President Bernie would be successful enough to run on his own version of “morning in America” in 2024. '
This brings up a good point. Progressive/moderate Democrats/independents are going to want a presidential contender who can be set for two terms and a full takeover of Congress. I've no doubt that a President Bernie Sanders would work well with such a dynamic. But does he have the staying power to go the full distance? Does that even matter if there's other younger Democratic contenders could take up the torch in 2024 -- but, is that likely? It doesn't usually work that way.
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I do think Bernie Sanders and other like-minded liberals are making a mistake by adopting the socialist label because the term is already associated in people's minds with the old USSR (Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics). The dictionary is also against them, defining socialism as state ownership of business and industry. Democratic socialism is defined little differently in this respect.
Bernie is using a different definition of socialism, or democratic socialism, but in doing this he is fighting an uphill battle with both what's already in people's minds and with the dictionary. It is okay to redefine your terms, but in this case it seems a very tough uphill battle against public attitudes about socialism.
So this labeling *is* a significant problem. When you're in favor of social programs that help people and society in general, what else do you call it but socialism? Makes perfect sense. However, in most people's minds socialism has a different and more sinister definition. I think American socialists have to find a different label.
About your link to that video of Sanders praising the Soviets for their investments in culture and infrastructure, you only provide a short clip so it's not possible to know the full context, but it seems doubtful that he was also advocating state ownership of business and industry. But the distinction won't be apparent to many, and it does represent an obvious problem for him.
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What is sad is that Americans do not know what Socialism actually is. Having lived in the UK until 1978, I know what real socialism (as practiced by the 1945-50 Labour Government) is. It entailed wholesale nationalization of major industry, major welfare introductions including the National Health Service, and taxes topping out above 90%. Bernie? May be on the left-wing of the Democrats but REAL socialists would guffaw to hear him described as one of them.
Let’s be clear, to the present Republican Party, anything left of center, heck anything in the Center, is socialistic, to scare the ignorant!
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@Percy00
See my comment about "Social Capitalism".
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What? I'd argue that Sanders is more like Trump, than Carter was...
I get the idea from Sanders (the same that I get from Trump) that he cares more about being president, than actually presiding. I think Sanders uses the lonely extreme left end of the political spectrum in the same way that Trump uses the slightly more crowded extreme right end of the political spectrum. They both capitalize on marginalized ideology.
Sanders is too old, too... if he makes it two terms, I'm sorry but he will be 85 and that's just too old for this...
I'd still vote for Sanders over Trump in a heartbeat, though... and Trump is a REALLY low bar... I'd vote for literally anything over Trump. Really... the only way that side of the spectrum could get worse is to nominate someone like Mike Murdoch--the late night seed-faith conman. I'd actually take Trump over that guy, all day long... so yeah... it does get worse...
---
I like John Hickenlooper or Kamala Harris -- for what it's worth...
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Mr. Douthat seems to be asking for hate mail, but I appreciate this novel take. It also may be true. And another thing. Four years later, his tried and true progressive (and oh my, socialist) ideas no longer seem that far-fetched, there are those that have taken positions to the left of him. He may win, but I still think it'll be Joe (Biden).
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Bernie Sanders owns three homes and is reportedly worth $2 million. This is not bad for someone who espouses socialist values. Will we all be so lucky and fortunate to succeed in the same manner as Bernie Sanders if he is elected? Free education, free health care, free homes, etc. all sound nice but who will pay for this? How about Bernie Sanders dipping into his own pocket and footing the bill.
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@WPLMMT
$2 Million net worth will pay for quite a lot indeed.
It will not buy you a two bedroom apartment in some Trump Tower even.
Bernie, I am sure, whatever his net worth is, and however many houses he owns (doesn’t sound like palaces from doing the math) pays his taxes.
Let’s not go to Trump’s finances and even the good old Hillary’s who could make $650k in two hours while Bernie you claim is worth $2 million working for the past 50 years!
Can’t take you seriously, sorry.
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There are people in the mid west and fly over states that own 5 homes and worth 500,000 big deal, like Trump you can inflate each home to sum up your worth. Sanders in his heart’s heart has always believed in the erosion of the simple man
I think too many people are getting hung up on the Carter Trump comparison. I don't think the author was comparing them in general as people--definitely not comparing them morally. Just that they were both outsiders attempting to push their party ideologically.
1
There's one big glaring hole in the argument. True, Reagan changed course, but he lured the country into a small-government, neoliberal zone where it had never been in modern history. Bernie on the other hand, is urging us back to a saner pre-Reagan world with higher (and fairer) taxes on the wealthy and government solutions to big problems like crumbling infrastructure.
All of his other policies stem from that basis - that government can and should solve big problems - insure the health and education of it's citizens, respond to the environmental crisis of global warming, enact policies that will eventually erode the deeply entrenched racism that still exists in America.
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Ross, Jimmy Carter might well have been a two-term President if not for the Iran hostage crisis.
You're probably too young to remember it, but that was the crisis that undermined Carter's popularity as President - and elected Reagan.
As for Bernie, let's wait for the debates and then see what the Presidental polls look like after a few of those. My strong suspicion is that neither Biden nor Bernie's poll numbers will hold up once the attention of the Democratic electorate becomes focused on some of the other candidates.
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Matthew, one thing I definitely agree with you on is “let’s wait”. This time in 2015 the only Republican candidate, as I recall, was Ted Cruz, and the only announced Democrat was nobody! This time in 2007, no candidates. To put it simply, this is ridiculously early for any prognostications. So let’s cam down and wait, at least until the debates, until some candidates distinguish themselves and others are forced out.
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1.) Trump is to Carter like Nero was to St. Paul ... disjunctive ok, but alike? No. Jimmy tried to project humility which came across as timidity; Trump is the complete opposite.
2.) Ok, you recognize that Reagan was a Roosevelt Democrat until his father-in-law and the tax man changed his mind...
3.) Norman Thomas, Socialist candidate for president in 1928 proposed things that fit comfortably in the 1952 Republican Party platform, but he didn't get them there. Things like a 40 hour work week and social security were the doings of a popular and powerful Democratic party war-president.
4.) Should Senator Sanders ever be nominated and elected {a real long-shot} I doubt he could accomplish much. Unless under extreme crises and with a collapse of pre-existing leadership, America moves very S L O W L Y toward major policy changes.
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I find the analogy with Carter/Reagan tormented, as not only was Carter an ethical president, but Reagan was a dim bulb and empty suit.
But more to the point, the climate emergency is bearing down on the world. What political reorganization is required for us to mount a meaningful defense? Clearly one that gathers the necessary resources and insists the common good must overrule neoliberal or plutocratic self-interest.
Give me the Democratic Socialist who’s been warning about climate change for decades and has the activist youth of the nation behind him.
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Even though it is early I appreciate Mr Douthat's comment that "...every normal metric makes Sanders a front-runner, and a stronger-looking candidate than all his declared rivals..."
But looking around the pundit world you would never get that impression. Which, I fear, indicates that his will be a tougher row to hoe. One can only hope that all the negativity toward Sanders will simply backfire.
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We are some 19 months from the election. First, somewhat closer to 2016, by normal metrics it was to be Jeb! vs Hill. Second, there a number of possibly strong contenders to declare, and third the campaign has not, in any real sense, started.
A British Prime Minister once said: “A week in politics is a long time” and we have EIGHTY weeks before Election Day. Conditions in the country, in the world may play heavily in the Democrats’ choice, as, of course, will the various candidates’ performances.
Personally, while I believe Bernie will run strongly, I do not see him taking the nomination. (I almost wrote “I see it going to a younger candidate” before “Duh!” reached the surface of my brain!)
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As voters seem to gravitate toward elderly folks for President, I think it's time to let voters decide who they want as Vice-President as well since the odds are higher that a person post-75 may not live out his/her 4 year term. Let the candidate choose 4 people to run with him/her; then let the voters pick the one they want. Of course, in Trump's case, it would be picking from bad to worse to awful to OMG NO based on his cabinet picks.
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Interesting parallels, but of course it's never always exactly the same each time. Carter was hobbled by the Iranian hostage crisis, being unable to resolve it was probably a major contributor to becoming a one-term president. That being said, I think he's set the best example for what to do with the rest of your life after the presidency than any of them.
Sanders, if elected, would face a Republican contingent in Congress with the same bull headed determination and resolve the Iranians had with Carter. So the eternal political question, if change is coming in a big way, what will happen when Sanders, embodying that irresistible force, meets the immovable object of Congress?
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It is an error to assume that the assumptions and preconditions of the 1980s are true today. Donald Trump is a creature from the swamp of reality TV who has thrived in the era of Twitter.
The Republican Party as we once knew it is a discarded relic of times past. Foreign powers have learned how to manipulate our people and opportunistic American oligarchs are reaping the benefits of a decades-long propaganda campaign against democracy and the middle class. There's no comparison between America now and the era of Carter and Reagan. No comparison.
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The Sanders-Reagan comparison is interesting, if far from persuasive. But the comparison offered at the outset between Carter and Trump is simply outrageous. Whatever Carter was and intended, Trump is something entirely different. He is our first president who doesn't understand or wish to understand the rule of law; who runs the country for the financial gain of himself and his family, and has turned the major departments of government over to profiteers. DeVos runs the Education Department so for-profit educational operations can flourish; the EPA and the Interior Department have been run so fossil fuel companies and real estate moguls can profit, and so on. Trump is deeply and committedly corrupt and quite open to running foreign policy not for the country's but for his own interests. And so on. Nothing of this can be said about Jimmy Carter.
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i don't buy the analogy of Trump to Carter somehow, but i would like to see a full on debate between Sanders and Trump. i don't think we would see anything resembling a Carter affectation in Trump either in manner nor means nor following.
I have thought for some time that Bernie Sanders could be the most transformative political figure since Reagan. For the past 40 years, the dominant American political narrative has been Reaganism, i.e., that government is the problem, not the solution. The result has been wage suppression, corporate largesse and extreme wealth inequality. Now politicians speak openly of universal health care, a living wage and tuition free higher education. This is the result of Sanders' influence. For the good of the country, it is time for these ideas to become government policy.
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All I know is this: all revolutions start with the young.
At 64, I see a broiling anger among my age-35 & under pals-- these "kids" are debt-drowning in an economy that hasn't worked for them in decades-- massive student loan debt, non-affordable housing, gig jobs with no benefits/no health insurance, high cost of living, & the knowledge they'll pay the costs for a trashed environment.
In 2016, in Norfolk VA (*hardly a hotbed of political activism) I saw 3000+ of these young people wait in line for hours to attend a Bernie Sanders rally.
They trust this old man. He is authentic to them in ways that transcend youthful cynicism-- the Granpa you wish you'd have listened to a long time ago, because he had your best interests at heart.
Among my own peers in our 60's, I see another cresting tide of discontent. Economic uncertainty & no peace in our old age, plus a humbling dose of shame-- how did we ever let it get this bad?-- the inequity, the political gridlock, the inability of social institutions to function effectively due to corruption and/or incompetence.
The Dem power-brokers who sidelined Sanders in 2016 still don't "get it". There is a large and expanding cohort of energized voters out here-- both young and old-- who are the grassroots corollary/counterpart of the cohort that elected the "unthinkable" Donald Trump.
Sanders is a known quantity. He now has both the press & public's attention-- and the time-- to make his case. He can win this.
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@BedfordFalls
Hopefully the "Press" will not ignore him as they did Carter and Sanders first run. Both lost (Carter's reelection bid) and Sanders first bid by the press either ignoring them or ignoring their good deeds.
Remember it was Carter who put Solar on the WH and advised the country to turn down their thermostats in the winter and to wear sweaters. I can still see him in his sweater.
How different the would would be if Carter won his second term, and Kerry a presidential term. People want to slow down or stop Oil companies' hold over our lives. That is why so many are for solar and wind and electric vehicles (Tesla's).
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@BedfordFalls I'm with you in my late 60s and have observed the same things you've described. We are the witnesses, not only to the many young people supporting Sanders, but people of many age (see the person whose hand he's shaking in the photo).
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@BedfordFalls
As someone in his 60's I can say don't blame me, I didn't let it come to this. I have voted for the most liberal, most socialist candidate in every election of my life for all the good it did me. Finally the ignorant masses are catching up. Good, its about time, and all they needed was a generation of pain and financial abuse. But whatever it takes. They are there now and all that is standing in the way of the Bernie revolution are the secret insiders who run the fixed Democratic primaries. Which way will they tilt the scales this time in all their strategic brilliance? They didn't do too well last time.
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This time I'm all for Bernie, accepting no substitutes. I think the time is right for a progressive redirection.
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