I assume she is sorry in the same way that Roger Stone is sorry for demonizing Judge Berman once he realized he probably went too far and may end up in the slammer. If she really is a US citizen, I say she should be allowed to return, put on trial for treason and, if proven guilty, sentenced to life in prison without possibility of parole. The kid, needless to say, should be fostered out for reprogramming.
49
I don't believe this woman. Isis has such a stronghold on its followers, she doesn't look frightened or alarmed at all. She's calm, almost calculated, and nobody is trying to quiet her? Something just doesn't add up.
42
While most of us make mistakes and errors of judgment in our life, some of these are life-long sentences, where there is no returning back. Although follies in youth are more understandable, it can happen at any age.
Unless one is kidnapped, or taken hostage, America can not make exceptions for any U.S. citizen who leaves our country with freedom of will to live in an alien state, and be expected to receive and debrief on return, the former citizen who has become a victim.
29
Beyond family and country, these women terrorists have yet another, more important, community to whom they should apologize: to the countless kind, caring and peace-loving Muslims globally who struggle daily with the misperceptions of identity and motive.
Because of their actions and affiliations, the many potential Malala Yousafzais and Sadiq Khans of the world face unnecessary obstacles to acceptance and the unencumbered sharing of beneficial contributions. As a result we are all held back.
68
Britain has a program where repenting former terrorists are used to lecture to schools, etc., about their experiences and why they've abandoned what they once thought was a promising way of life now turned nightmare.
We use former addicts to talk with our youth about the dangers of drug use and it's very successful.
Why not offer these women a path of redemption by utilizing their first-hand knowledge of the real face of terrorism to give informative talks to others?
15
Indeed there are certain things you get a second chance on in the United States. As an adult advocating for mass murder of innocents for religious purposes isn't one of them.
If somehow they are let back in, they need to be tried and most likely jailed for treason.
53
They let the men return (I presume that they were fighters). Why not let the women return and have their day in court?
17
They should be givena chance to return to Guantanamo where other terrorists are waiting for anyone to believe them. They seem to have trouble with decision-making, and are inclined toward radical and irrational choices. Thus it would be hard to guess what other choices they might make once they are back in this country. Would they be pleading to come back if ISIS hadn't finally been defeated?
18
These women are not the Devil’s Spawn — deserving of Eternal Damnation. They are Americans who fell under the influence of certain conditions, became radicalized, and made some horrible decisions.
Let them come back and face trial. Let’s learn from their mistakes rather than just cast them out.
This kind of thing is bound to happen again. The experience of these women can help us to understand why it happened and help prevent it in the future.
20
As Canadian or American passport holders these women ought to certainly be repatriated with the stipulation that they will be charged with and tried for treasonous activity. Their children are blameless, of course, but the mothers made a choice and ought be held responsible for those choices.
21
These individuals should be tried in Jordan or Syria. And then spend the rest of their lives in prison. We must remember the ISIS victims.
34
They need to be made examples. I hope Mr. Trump does not allow them back.
18
Justice, tempered with mercy.
No one has stated either what behavior of their violated what law. Clearly, their rejection of the US was treasonous in mind and attitude. Perhaps Ms. Muthana's immature, obnoxious, anti-American tweets violate the law; I don't know. Neither individual is alleged to have directly engaged in fighting the US. On the other hand, they renounced their allegiance to the countries of their birth and swore allegiance to ISIS, a cruel and violent terrorist organization whose members have committed war crimes and crimes against humanity (e.g.sawing off heads, burning people alive, engaging in mass torture, engaging in rape, enslaving women, committing genocide against the Yazidis).
I'll leave it to others to decide exactly what justice tempered with mercy means here.
Is making common cause with America's enemies a punishable offense? If so, is Donald Trump guilty of doing exactly that with Vladimir Putin? And, isn't his subordinating America's national interest to that of his business empire simple treason for money?
11
There are many people more deserving of American citizenship, waiting inside this country or outside the border. There are hard-working people. There are probably even veterans, who’ve already fought for the US. These women should apply for citizenship to a Muslim country like Saudi Arabia. They don’t need to come back here and we don’t have room for them.
38
There is no recourse for individuals that commit treason and aid and abet terrorists overseas. Regret is not enough. They should never be allowed to step on US soil again. Who knows if this is simply a foil to bring their ISIS learnings to plan a terrorist attack in the US? What could be a greater benefit to ISIS than American citizens to plant Trojan horses? No way. They made their beds and now need to lie in them.
23
I'm sure that prisons are full of men and women who cry themselves to sleep at night when they think about how they have ruined their lives.
27
2 American Wives of ISIS Militants Want to Return Home.
Short answer: absolutely not.
32
Ms. Muthana regrets living a miserable life there, not the horrific crimes of butchering ordinary people. And, having an American, liberal education, how did she develop such an overwhelming hatred for ordinary American people? Did she learn this at home, was she brainwashed online? Or, both?
I'm sure the French yellow vests protestors would love her to join their cause, or, when they figure out what exactly are they still protesting. Hint, it ain't the price of gas, and my instincts tell me Ms. Muthana can't understand how she turned into a Jihadi monster, either.
13
They both made it clear by their words and actions that they would be more comfortable living in an Islamic theocracy, which is most definitely not the U.S. They will never be happy here. Send them to Iran or the taliban to live. That seems the ideal solution to me.
21
They have to be kidding. Along this vein, we would release all the young women who are imprisoned in the US for making stupid choices. The difference here is that their crimes are much more severe and shameful than most (targetting innocent Americans for death). Not one ounce of compassion here.
19
Per the GWU survey 11 of the 14 ISIS Jihadis were arrested & charged when returning to the US--What about the other 3?
4
“Ms. Muthana grew up in an *ultra-strict* household — no partying, no boyfriends and no cellphone.”
Lol—“ultra-strict” by Western standards, maybe? Check your cultural biases, please, NYT. This is the reality for so many South Asian and/or Muslim youth, but they don’t end up joining terrorist organizations. Please reconsider your characterization of how she grew up. No partying, no boyfriends, and no cellphone is not anywhere near what “ultra-strict” actually is. Are you really suggesting that the opportunities to take part in such activities would have kept her from flirting with extremist ideology? She used her phone as a means to engage the ideas she believed in. She didn’t just fall prey to extremist ideology, as was suggested in this article, after getting her hands on a phone. Her family’s restrictions did not make her vulnerable. She intentionally endorsed those ideas on her own. Pin it on the individual, not the culture from where these restrictions stemmed from.
28
Hoda is not the first young person to do something naive and stupid. Her case is worse because she betrayed her own country and its values. Hers is a grave offense.
But, in America we believe in justice and rehabilitation. If a person pays for their crime, they can rejoin society. So I would like to see her brought before a judge, her case tried in open court according to our laws, and the appropriate punishment handed down.
Some men who have returned from ISIS have acted as mentors to other young men, to tell them the truth and counter the propaganda. Perhaps she could so the same for young women.
I can't tell from the article whether she has repudiated her belief in violent Islam. A clear statement from her might be a start toward bringing her back to face a court of law. Yes, she regrets her rash choice, but has she abandoned her radical ideas?
10
Actions have consequences. Too bad that these women had never learned that.
19
Bring her back but put her on trial.
Surely she will be punished in prison
for few years. That will be just for
her stupid decision to betray the
country. Chelsea Manning also
betrayed her country, served time
and now living as a free person.
Our prisons are full of people who
have made bad choices and they are
paying a price for that. Let her pay the
price. She might be reformed and
become a productive, law abiding citizen.
6
I can't believe there are people who would support bringing these people back. Why were the men brought back? if we're to waste more tax payer money on this, let it be the cost of sending the rest of the traitors back. We have many asylum seekers at our border who want to be a part of the wonderful dream America represents, yet we're debating these rat traitors? You play, you pay... and I hope they pay dearly.
12
@ "Steve" If they "do not deserve our mercy" why do you bother trying them? You already have them convicted.
1
Not a tough call. If they committed crimes they should return and face charges. If they were just foolish and did nothing criminal they should be permitted to return. What's so hard here?
6
decisions have consequences.....
5
Gosh, it's hard for me to imagine how these women could be so unbelievably stupid. What kind of person gives up a comfortable existence to join a misogynist terrorist group? Did they think their lives would vastly improve? How? Isis is not a champion for women or women's rights. I don't get the reasoning of their choices. As for whether or not they should be repatriated, that's a tough one. How can we know for sure they've had a change of heart?
9
Repatriate her right back to Aliceville prison and let her stand trial for her crimes. She needs an awakening to the realities of having taken part in the brutal bloodbath that is ISIS. Her children should be cared for by family not devoted to religious extremism of any stripe
5
Treason can’t just be forgiven and forgotten. They can be forgiven after they face criminal charges first, then pay their debts to their country. Otherwise, let them live out the lives they chose for themselves in Syria.
2
Bowe Bergdhal was an American military deserter and is thought to have collaborated with the Taliban. Even he was brought back. These 2 women who joined the ISIS programs have the right to be back because they are American. And they should be punished.
5
John Phillip Walker Lindh is a U.S. citizen who was captured as an enemy combatant during the United States' invasion of Afghanistan in November 2001. Brought to trial in the U.S. Lindh pleaded guilty to two serious charges and was sentenced to 20 years in prison without parole. The Lindh case is a precedent for Americans who defect to terrorist organizations. Let Ms. Muthana come back to the U.S.A. in handcuffs. Put her on trial for treason, conspiracy to murder U.S. citizens and for providing material support to a terrorist organization. I feel no pity for her. She is an adult, not a juvenile. She was not legally incompetent when she joined ISIS by her own admission. I think her "remorse" is contrived to get her out of the miserable camp she is living in. By the way, I am an Army veteran and a liberal Democrat.
18
these isis brides aren't sorry about their behavior . . . they're sorry that isis ended up on the losing side . . . imagine if isis were to regenerate and recapture fallujah in iraq, for example . . . these women would be dancing with glee on the rooftops . . . they were old enough to make their decisions, they knew what they were doing, they're still trying to deny the horrors that their husbands visited on innocents (and maybe they even participated) -- "i don't know what to believe" -- well, we know what to believe, and this is an easy case . . . let them waste away in some desert somewhere . . . never back in our country . . . never . . .
14
Yep, now that the caliphate has fallen and they're living in a POW camp has got to be the pits. Wonder how many Kurdish and Yazidi enslaved women they reached out to and tried to protect? I'm sure they have plenty of 'witnesses' who are happy to vouch for their humanitarian efforts. s/
11
Well, instead of bringing them back to the U.S., perhaps they should be left where they are in Syria. It is a nasty sort of prison and probably worse than any Federal prison. It will allow them to stew in their own radicalized juices with little expense to the United States.
ISIS is no friend to a civilized society. You do not sneak into Syria because you are lonely and lost.
9
Pathetic. They fell for the “romance” of beheading people and burning people alive? Stupid and desperate, but for what exactly?
15
What gets me about all these jihadists who martyr themselves to have all the virgins in heaven is why they feel they need to recruit temporary brides for them just so they can have sex with them before they go and die. Either they’re very impatient or they really don’t believe in any of that nonsense and just fight pointless wars to get girls here on earth. Probably not the first time men have done that. Of course compared to our pointless war in Afghanistan, at least there’s has an understandable rationale.
4
Um , no thank you ladies. When I read about the awful things you posted on your Websites, rejoicing at the news of the deaths of innocent human beings, it made me sick . You are both awful people, we don't need anymore religious fanatics like you two. I would rather let in a thousand hard working Mexicans /South Americans at our Border than either one of you. You made your beds , now you must lie in them.
21
They were both old enough and smart enough to have strategized their way out of their respective countries and into the Caliphate. To claim ignorance is a ploy.
I wonder if we should ask the families of those that were savagely beheaded whet their feelings are on these women.
22
So they are appealing on the basis that they were suffering under temporary insanity? I'm not saying that breaking the spell of religious dogma is impossible but I'm hard pressed to believe someone who has exhorted others to acts of violence in the name of God deserves a clean slate with no repercussions. How can you forgive? "I can't believe it. I ruined my life. I ruined my future." NO! You ruined your families life, your son's life, the lives of future victims of ISIS who took your message to heart. You are the least person to be concerned with your suffering. You should be apologizing, not weeping about your fate. You at least had a choice in the matter and chose badly.
13
What was it that showed her the error of her ways? The beheading of journalists, the rape of the Yazidi women, the burning alive of prisoners, or the fact that she had to forage for grass in the cracks of the pavement?
22
These traitors only want to come 'home' because they have lost the war and isis doesn't have a welfare state.
Also, that woman that has her citizenship revoked by Great Britain, was bought up by her parents to love isis and hate Britian as I saw photos of her and her parents in the Daily Mail uk , approximately a couple of years ago, being unpatriotic.
Next minute, the woman who want to come back to the western world and use our democracies to clothe, feed, house, and care for them, will be bringing up their kids to avenge their isis fathers deaths and they will be bought up to hate our Democracies and will become terrorists within our Democracies. The risks to our own citizens safety is too high.
22
Since they didn’t actually fight, the women don’t seem to have broken any US laws. Hoda Muthana’s vile tweets inciting violence don’t appear to meet the standards of prosecution set forth in Brandenburg v, Ohio. If Syria chooses not to prosecute them, then the women have a legal right to live in the US (or Canadá in Ms. Polman’s case).
3
They don’t want to acknowledge the atrocities on YouTube-“who knows what’s real?” They haven’t really learned or regretted anything, except their own physical discomfort, right? These women are all about self interest. they don’t deserve a moment of worry or action from the US.
17
These women are certainly not trustworthy and could be a very smart ISIS plant when back home. I feel for their situation, but they have sought and found their new home, it's now up to them to live there and perhaps make it a better place. Returning here should not be an option.
18
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
So they get there day in court and there children get to be American Citizens with all rights.
1
Girls, this is happens when you believe internet propaganda. When deciding to marry a man, it is not a decision to be made if you've only interacted with him through social media. Each of these girls was old enough to know better that going to a dessert and living in a mud hut and being passed around to a new 'husband' each year in order to breed new freedom fighters was not going to end well for them.
12
My concerns are twofold:
1) the article states that all the men have been repatriated. Why??????
2) We have all been shocked time and again by the Jihadi act of violence created by those living in America, England and France to name a few. The shock we feel is because these people appear perfectly normal.....until they don't. The need to carry out the violence runs deep in the psyche and is well hidden. How can we ever trust any of them again?!? Not the women or the men. Brainwashing and true belief don't just go away.
11
If we don't bring them back and prosecute them we lose control over their future actions. They will be free on the streets of other countries, where they may well do harm again, to others as well as the USA. We cannot rely on the justice systems of other, highly corruptible countries to keep us safe from them.
9
My instinct is to completely agree with most thoughts here about not allowing them to return (at least not without a trial and punishments). However, I would like to pose the scenario in a different light and play Devil’s Advocate.
We do not know what challenges these women faced while in the USA that drove them to join ISIS but I can imagine how hey may have faced years of prejudice and racism, as our country still needs to work on how we treat Muslims. As teenagers or young 20-year-olds, human instinct is to want to “fit in.” Perhaps these young women were looking for a place where they could fit in and escape the prejudices they face here (and I can imagine Alabama could be a tough place to live as a Muslim). Couple those pressures with the fact that the prefrontal cortex above the brain is still developing until (on average) 25-years-old, which means that young adults are more susceptible to making impulsive decisions with disregard for how it impacts others or what the long-term consequences may be. Does any of this excuse their actions? No. But hopefully it’ll allow us to keep more of an open-mind to the context with we consider their actions.
(As a side note, I am a white Christian female in my late 20’s so I can only hypothesize, but I assure everyone that the decisions an 18-year-old make may be very different from those of a 30-year-old)
10
My sympathy for their situation extends until they advocate for the death of other people, including their former countrymen. I think they should be brought back and held accountable. I don't see any indication that they acknowledge the harm that ISIS has brought to other people, especially women in these war zones. They mostly focus on how joining the organization was not as great as they thought it would be, while questioning whether ISIS really committed the crimes that have been well documented by human rights organizations across the world.
10
What is the legal basis of denying them the right to return home? Was the US ever legally at war with ISIS? I don’t recall a declaration of war. Without a war, did they legally commit treason? As despicable as their behavior was there has to be some legal argument for depriving them of citizenship rights. I’m not familiar with the law on these matters. ISIS was never a legal nation was it? If not it’s not as if they adopted citizenship in another country.
3
You realize she is a traitor for joining ISIS and should be punished don’t you? That fact cannot be ignored.
10
If Ms. Muthana is willing to risk imprisonment, or worse--execution, to return to the US, I would like to hear why.
6
I have zero sympathy for her however the settled law should take it's own course and not the opinions and pronouncements of people like Pompeo or that serial law-breaker and enemy of the people who currently resides in the White House (even if he happens to be the President of the US).
That said, I'd highly recommend the remorseful ISIS Brides from America and other Western nations consider applying for asylum in Saudi Arabia. ISIS Beheads, Saudi Arabia beheads. And MBS (Mr. Bone Saw), the Saudi ruler would be a natural host given his behavioral affinities with ISIS.
There's no need to inject religious arguments in this situation. At the end of the day, religion is a "crowd control and crowd funding" mechanism that has nothing to do with the Divine or individual or collective consciousness.
10
Had she committed cold blooded murder at home in the US she would be behind bars for the rest of her life, or perhaps even put to death depending on where the crime was committee. If for some reason the law does determine it appropriate that she come back, it is only fair that these are the best possible fates to befall her. God knows its better than the innocents who suffered under ISIS could have hoped for.
6
Are they truly sorry, or only sorry because the Caliphate has been depleted? I believe in redemption, but I don't think we should allow people back into the country who have actively worked to destroy it. The posts about running over crowds of innocent people with trucks chills my blood. Anyone who could do that does not deserve American citizenship. There are too many people waiting who do.
22
I can't believe how many comments here are welcoming her home, I would not think this is a good idea, she should go live in an Islamic country where Sharia is practiced, she made that decision to live by those rules and laws, and that was final. To welcome her back would be a mistake, she is a danger to herself and others, and even her son. She could raise her child to believe in extreme and radical points of views. I hope she does not return, she has no place in this society anymore.
20
This doesn't seem very complicated. They committed crimes against the United States, and should face trial in an American courtroom on American soil. I leave what to do with them from there to a jury of my peers. It's the American way.
4
Of course I can feel some compassion but this mistake is too big to repair. What if they have been brainwashed and will act out some terrorist action that kills innocent people ? Both women were obviously not of right minds to join Isis. I would like to know where the men who were repatriated are now.
6
In another interview she says she should get therapy if she's allowed to return. No.
7
I am incredulous that so many are talking about forgiveness, amnesty, whatever, and shaming others who disagree by claiming the higher moral ground. Really? We are not talking minor infraction here. At the age of consent, this individual thought that her best interests and those of any child of hers would be better served by living amongst ISIS and its affiliates. She not only willingly espoused the mindset of people who slit the throats of Americans whilst videotaping this vile act for all to witness, but she actually moved to live amongst them to help further their agenda. She and her children (and others like them) should never be allowed to darken these shores again.
16
This is such a difficult situation. These women are American citizens, who rejected our country and our values and joined a group actively seeking our destruction. That said, they are entitled to consideration under our laws, as citizens. I am sure that they regret their decision now that they are in a Syrian refugee camp, but is that decision regrettable because they lost the benefits and comforts of living in the US or because they truly reject jihadist ideology? And how do we know what is truly in their hearts? Maybe they should be brought back to the US, evaluated for competency and perhaps placed on monitored probation for an extended period??
71
This is exactly what should be done!
2
@Cathlynn Groh "How do we know what is truly in their hearts?" She pledged her allegiance to ISIS and fled the US to join them on the battlefield. We have the opportunity to not only rid the country of this terrorist, but also prevent admittance to the future terrorist anchor baby. I vote that if she does get allowed reentry, part of her conditions upon reentry are that she gets to live in your home (please make sure all crockpots are locked up).
41
Ownership for her actions.
She renounced her citizenship, burned her passport and abetted a terrorist state.
No mercy.
What good can come from allowing her entrance.
Her child is not a US citizen, but a bastard of the failed caliphate.
Stateless.
32
No child is a bastard; no matter your opinion of her very stupid abhorrent decision to leave her country and join a gang of murdering thugs.
3
if you read the entire article, you would know that most of the men who joined ISIS and since "changed their minds" have been repatriated to the U.S. How come they can come back but not the women?
4
“Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”.
These women made some horrible mistakes. Let them come back, tell their stories, and face justice. But we have much to learn from them. This happened, in our country, for a reason, probably will happen again, and these women could be valuable in preventing it. And helping us understand why it happens.
Every human being has the capacity for redemption and deserves the opportunity....
10
Yep. Let's let all the murderers out of prison too. I'm sure they'd like a second chance and would profess remorse for it too. Who wouldn't. On the news, when this well educated privileged daughter of a diplomat was asked if she deserved punishment, she claimed instead that she deserves "therapy"... No ma'am. You deserve prison.
12
Wondering if her real regret was that things didn’t work out the way she though they would. That being the case, what she wants is a ‘do-over’.
35
Reading the comments here, I can only contribute that this (like any other legal case) is ot one that needs to be tried by newspaper. We have laws. Ideally, at least some thought went into establishing these laws. This is a case for the courts to decide by applying existing laws and precedents.
I am against fanaticism of any sort, especially that which results in death or destruction, be it ramming an airplane into a skyscraper, detonating an explosive-laden truck next to a federal building, or shooting a doctor who performs abortions.
Keep calm, let the legal system do its work. If you don't like the result, change the laws, keeping in mind that the change will apply only to future cases.
This is the American way.
9
I completely agree. These actions were committed by an adult with a sound mind without duress. This is a a job for the legal system. The men are repatriated so they could face their charges so the women should be too. The children, however are a different story.
3
It looks to me as though for purposes of the photograph she was instructed to pick up the sleeping child. Something about her posture suggests that the act of holding him feels alien or off-putting to her. She appears to be holding him at a distance, reluctantly. (Do we know for certain that it is her child?) The only sympathetic comments here rightly are focused on that poor child, whose value to her I suspect is limited to his potential ability to get her a ticket home. Her texts celebrating murder are monstrous.
25
I am not buying the pious, pieta-like photo or expressions of regret in the article. Actions have consequences.
29
These women are valuable. They are worth bringing home for intelligence gathering alone. They need to be put on trial, convicted, and offered reduced sentences in exchange for cooperation.
5
@So Sorry
What makes you think they'd talk? Even if they did talk - what makes you believe they'd tell the truth?
7
@So Sorry - They also need to be subjected to some sort of re-education. It could take the form of studies with American mullahs who espouse liberal views. But by all means they need to be tried for crimes related to terrorism and aiding and abetting an enemy of the state.
2
My sympathies in this case are reserved solely for the families of the victims of ISIS, whose crimes and atrocities these women elected to align with, support, and encourage. As the article states, that included "beheading journalists, enslaving and systematically raping women from the Yazidi minority and burning prisoners alive." Reading her words of regret and how she realizes now "how important the freedoms that we have in America are" move me not at all. Some things cannot be undone.
59
On reading this story I was immediately reminded of the protagonist Philip Nolan in Edward Everett Hale's 1863 short story 'The Man WIthout a Country' who on renouncing his country during a trial for treason is sentenced to spend the rest of his days at sea without so much as a word of news about the United States.
I would be completely satisfied to hear that a similar punishment is meted to both Hoda Muthana. Let us take back her child and raise it in a country of laws but the mother should suffer the fate of never hearing again (or benefiting from) the country which she so blithely and reckless condemned years back.
17
They made their choices. Let them live over there as refugees & remember how good they had it before defecting.
39
I am interested in her regretting her decision, but apparently not the awful murders she observed and maybe participated in, but at least condoned. She was a terrorist. She is also an American citizen. Perhaps a trial for treason applies, if we actually declared war on Isis. She should be returned to the U.S. and placed on trial. Let the jury decide. Her child is an American citizen, and should be given an opportunity in life. I feel very sorry for the child who someday will know he is the off spring of two terrorists. I have no sympathy for her, but she is entitled to her day in court and the U.S. deserves it also.
14
@JimVanM, since she had renounced her US citizenship at the time her child was born overseas, that child is NOT a US citizen.
24
@doy1 Hi, renouncing USA citizenship is a bit more complicated than saying you renounce it and burning a passport, there are official actions and forms and the payment of a considerable fee. Also there are tax liabilities to be considered as well. So, though I am no expert, her child may, in this case, very well be a US citizen.
More info: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/060515/why-people-renounce-their-us-citizenship.asp
2
She is also the daughter of s diplomat and may not have been a citizen from the get go.
3
Seems to me she forfeited any right to citizenship (to the extent she had any per the later article) when she joined ISIS. It's a farce that any time is even being spent on her. Meanwhile,.im curious to know why, if her father's diplomatic stays was terminated.why is he still in the US?
14
Neither of these women should be allowed to return. They may have renounced ISIS, but they will forever continue to maintain their extreme Islamic views even in civilian life. We don't need that here in our country. They should resettle in a country in the Middle East where they belong with others like them.
23
A good time to remember Patty Hearst.
4
@Linda - I remember Patty Hearst. She was kidnapped against her will and suffered Stockholm syndrome. I was living in San Francisco at the time.
4
Very very different.
3
@Linda
She was kidnapped first. Not these two.
7
Suuuuurrrreee. Let them back and then prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. Joining a terrorist organization to give them aid and comfort must have legal consequences.
12
I've absolutely no sympathy for these people; the horrific and unthinkable acts of murder and mayhem they were a party to is beyond the pale. They must under no circumstance be allowed to return to this country.
22
They made their decisions and now they must live with these decisions. They don't deserve to return home. They could still be ISIS sympathizers and working to undermine oour country.
18
Here're just the facts. They made great efforts and were excited to join the business of killing the "infidels". Now when the killers have been crushed, they want to get back to live among "infidels". They remain walking time-bomb which may or may not go off in the future. Why take chances?
29
You have to ask yourself.
What would she now be saying to the media,had her side won?
25
In forgiveness lies the greatness of a humane society.
4
@M Troitzsch One can forgive another but that does not mean they are not held accountable for their actions. I thought treason was a "high crime" - did that change?
1
@M Troitzsch A humane society does not permit dangerous terrorists (who have advocated violence towards Americans) to walk free, remain unaccountable for their crimes and pose a risk to the safety of innocent people.
6
I'm sorry, but no. As a Canadian supporter of human rights for all, I signed petitions to repatriate Omar Kadr to Canada after he was sent to Guantanamo: he was a child soldier raised by militants. I signed petitions not to expel his awful Canadian mother, despite her loud and odious Taliban views: she's a piece of work, but she's OUR piece of work. But Polman, like Muthana, was an adult who left, ripped up her passport, and encouraged (perhaps participated in) extremist violence against our people. You can move on from that, sure... but you don't get to do it here.
28
Just like the girl from the UK - and the timing - all 3, at almost the exact same time? Really?
The issue with her was she was 15 when she left, so, legally she was a minor. Here, these 2 were/are adults.
It's very simple; they, or anyone who does such wonton recklessness should lose their citizenship immediately.
Being an 'adult' means taking RESPONSIBILITY for one's actions - both good AND bad.
This was their choice - live with it.
Letting any of them back is only asking for trouble, plain & simple.
I'd even even go one step further; they willingly joined a terrorist organisation, they've become threats to this nation, as such any attempt to re-enter will be met with lethal force, period.
As for the offspring, that's a no-brainer; their citizenship might be part-based upon the mother, BUT, they're also citizens of where the male was from. If that county wants to allow (either/both), that's at their discretion, but, to do what this nation usually does (waffle) only sends a terrible message to anyone considering doing something as patently stupid, 'gee, they're terrorists, they want to KILL our citizens, and DESTROY our country', but, if they want to return and promise to be nice & behave, (nor ask for any benefits, etc), then we'll just consider it a 'dumb phase'.
When I fell into drug addiction, my mother threw me out (I'm fine, now). Even though I'm sure it broke her heart, it was the smartest thing she could've done. She made a tougher choice than a country?!?
13
To those who reject their return, please consider this argument.
My emotions lead me to want to reject their return too. But when I set that emotion aside and ask myself, what is in my and the USA's self-interest, I come to a different conclusion.
If they are forced to remain in exile, they will be resentful and are free on the streets, in another country, where we have no control over them and they can plot to do harm again, to others and to the USA.
But if we bring them back to the USA, AND put them on trial, we have the good possibility of being able to control their actions and monitor them.
I absolutely don't think we should allow them back out of compassion or forgiveness. We should allow them back so we can make sure they never do any harm again.
2
I don,t buy some of this. Married to three? Four years? ISIS is not winning, their money is drying up, there beliefs have abandoned their spirit, times are tough. They now face death, poverty, humiliiation and that is happening to them now. So, beg a handout from mean old capitalist christians and Uncle Sugar? Well, I don’t belive they deserve anything. Nothing. We have a hard enough time in this coutry convincing our citizens to take care of the poor and sick and of all religions in this country. These folks betrayed this country, contributed to the deaths of Americans and our allies. Life is tough all over, deal with it ladies.
20
These women chose to become breeders--which is really what women were reduced to by ISIS--for a nasty insurgency that used religious to justify genocide, rape, murder, slavery and a host of other evils. They married ISIS soldiers and had children they intended to raise to continue and expand the same kind of intolerant "Sharia"-based government.
Now they want to return and bring their children home with them? I believe the security risk of repatriating them is too great.
28
I know that during my lost rebellious years, I was reading the holy books , trying to figure out how to be more loving - the things she said about murdering people, from a young woman , hard to fathom. Her most frequent plaintive bleat is ' she realizes now! All the silly free mall days, and in and out burgers she traded for a cold dirt floor, etc .. she made a mistake ! , '...not a sincere regret about the people who her gang strives to murder in cold blood , just a generalized oh yeah, and I didnt mean those things I said ...
That left me cold .
17
You reap what you sow. Now that you don’t like the harvest you want to change.
11
do not let these women back. they are completely remorseless about the violence and only want back bc their side lost.
17
First of all, let us think about these women's idea of "home." They left the United States willingly to live and breed with avowed enemies of said "home." They, in the truest sense, made their beds; now let them and their progeny sleep in it--back in the so-called Caliphate.
6
As long as they leave all of the ISIS ideology in Syria.
1
They had access to the internet, they knew but apparently ignored, the reality of the atrocities committed by the terrorists they picked and willing join. Return for life in prison for treason only.
10
Sorry. People make decisions all the time that wreck their lives, and virtually all of them have regrets.
A 19-year-old drinks too much at a party and hits an older woman in an intersection, then flees in panic.
A young mother feeling the financial pinch agrees to smuggle a few ounces of powder onto a flight in exchange for a wad of cash.
These women agreed to join a movement dedicated to the murder of American children in terrorist bombings. It wasn't a snap decision. And they weren't facing economic crisis. They embraced an ideology of hate and death. I can think of millions of people I'd rather see given a second chance.
18
Frankly they both provided comfort and support for a terroristic regime of unspeakable brutality and medievil savagery. If this was war, they would be classified as traitors and probably face the death penalty. if you bring them home and sentance them for a long long time.
11
They were mostly young, clueless, naive and stupid. Unfortunate ones. They crossed the Rubicon. Some actions are irreversible... of course I have no truck with other people's primitive beliefs about the nature of reality. If one imagines that a great hallucinated "Creator Entity" calls, all responsibility falls on the one with the profoundly conditioned hallucinating imagination. So many in this world choose being led around by the nose by religious nonsense.
3
Revoke their passports and keep them out of the US. Anyone susceptible to this type of ideology based on killing infidels and intolerance should not be allowed back in this country. Who knows when they will flip again.
9
I've seen a lot lately in major news media about women who joined ISIS and now wanting to come back with their babies.
What about the men who joined ISIS and now want to come back?
What are the news media trying to do here, only telling stories about these women and children?
Is there hidden agenda in getting the public sympathy?
2
Perfect candidates to work for the CIA.
1
Bring both of these Prodigal women and their children back home, and give them a second chance! The U.S. is their home, and they realize that now. They have seen the light; so it does not matter that they were duped into following a bad cause. They've suffered, so bring them back!
What should go forth is the elimination of social media agencies, because they are hotbeds of lies and deceptions. From Russian hackers to the folk who propagandize for evil causes! Close up social media until they can get their regulatory act together!
Emails are enough!
@Gwendolyn
Yes, now that their side lost, they want to come back.
3
I feel nothing for these women. Whether they receive due process in the US or are stuck in a camp for the rest of their lives, they deserve misery.
12
There is no redemption for these bedraggled, foolish women. But are we all so innocent ourselves? We Americans allowed, with our complicity, the Cheney White House to invade Iraq leading to the deaths of more than a million people, most of them innocent civilians. Be careful when you pick up that stone to hurl.
3
Let them rot in the bed of their own making. After all, they knew what they were getting into. One joining ISIS after murders of journalists, the other cheering on and trying to evoke the murder or civilians in Europe and the US. Bringing them back and putting them in prison while looking after a child will literally cost millions of dollars...who will pay for their defense in a court case (I doubt if it would be crowd funded), the procurators, the prison time etc... the tax payers. Yes, they made bad choices. Strip them of citizenship as eminies of the US and let them be a lesson to others...look twice before you jump. I know this is harsh, but far less so than being burned to death or beheaded.
10
I'll bet their sorry. Let them sleep in the bed they've made for themselves.
4
“You made your bed, now lie in it.” Surrender to the FBI and face the consequences of your behavior.
3
Marry in haste, repent at leisure.
2
These naive, gullible, irresponsible and ignorant women must face the full and complete legal consequences of their life choices.And it appears,they have yet to even acknowledge their complicity in the barbaric savagery perpetrated by ISIS , both here and abroad.They deserve no compassion or pity from anyone anywhere.
9
Home is ISIS-land.
It would send a wrong message for a country whose citizenship they left when they joined ISIS to return.
They are in Syria. Let Syria do with them what they want.
And the stupid media has better things to report.
6
we have hard working people risking death to come here and we want to bring some people who are looking to recreate the middle ages? you threw away the gift of US citizenship, how you can enjoy your Caliphate paradise, all 4 square burnt out miles of it.
13
What I don't understand is why the world hasn't convened a war crimes tribunal to hold these people accountable. Something along the lines of what they did with the Nazis, or with countries like the former Yugoslavia. These women should be brought to trial and they should have to face their victims. Too many of these foreign nationals are melting back into their own countries as if they hadn't committed horrific atrocities. As to citizenship my understanding is you can't strip someone of their citizenship and leave them stateless. The woman from Yemen might be able to be sent back to her home country but we'll be arguing with Canada over who gets stuck with the other lady. Or maybe we could declare them all citizens of Syria? As to the children I think they have to be put up for adoption and raised by families trained to deal with extremists. No one in the family should be allowed contact with them again. That sounds harsh but we need harsh measures if we don't want another generation of extremists. As to their "regrets" - I might have believed them if they hadn't waited until ISIS was on the run. I think they'll say anything to get their comfortable lives back. This should never happen. My sympathy is for the innocent Syrians and the Yazidis. Not for these women.
14
These people joined a group bent on torture, rape, murder and slavery. One celebrated the murderous rampage in Paris and both only abandoned ISIS once it became clear their chosen side lost.
They are not simply treasonous. They were not simply soldiers or scientists pressed into service. A closer analogy would be someone who chose to leave the US during WWII to join the SS or run a concentration camp or someone who chose to join Pol Pot knowing full well what the Khmer Rouge were doing.
10
It used to be the case - and maybe still is - that any American citizen who joined the forces of an armed enemy of the US that was actively fighting against the US was stripped of US citizenship by law. This was automatic and was prescribed in the appropriate section of the Immigration and Naturalization Act. It would take an act of Congress to restore US citizenship (and the right to a passport). I do not know how US males fighting for ISIS were readmitted to the US so "easily", nor why the US women who joined ISIS are having so much difficulty now. There is obviously much more to this issue than meets the eye.
3
A brief comment was made about male American jihadists being repatriated, while female American jihadists and their children were not. The article did not provide any additional information, so the following is supposition, but I suspect the males were repatriated to ensure they could not escape. If they were to escape, they could rejoin the fight. In addition, the males probably have more valuable intelligence that might be extracted though legitimate, humane questioning and cajoling. The women and children, not so much. If they're let go because there is nowhere to send them, they probably won't pose any threat to the United States, so why not let them go? I suspect their parents aren't terribly keen on taking them back, either.
2
My first thought is that these are naive women who thought it would be romantic to enter such a cause. Strong, virile men galore is, I believe, all that they envisioned and their western brains were unprepared for reality.
My second thought is that they should not be allowed to re-patriot. Humans live with the choices they make.
3
This past week, I have learned that no matter who you are, every action you make is followed by a consequence. Whether the consequence is deemed 'good' or 'bad', is decided by the initial action. In this case, she messed up. She decided to illegally leave the country, and went to a place where you literally never hear anything good about. I have no sympathy for her actions, nor her consequences.
5
I think since they were old enough to know what they were doing they should have thought about what would of happened knowing how life is over there. They brought all the stuff that happened to them on their selves.
4
I think the child should go to the grandparents and the adults left where they are. The women will probably end up in a Syrian prison, and not survive. The child is an innocent and deserves a chance.
4
The grandparents were not so great at raising their own children. Not so sure they should be raising any others.
2
How do we really know if they have abandoned this virulent ideology? Britain has denied re-entry for such people and I think we should as well. Let their families go to see them there.
9
We all live daily with the consequences of our actions, period.
4
A friend of mine was murdered by a drunken driver. He could barely stand when he was arrested. Driving drunk is a non-ambiguous choice, and because of his choice, a dear friend is dead. Those were the consequences. Choosing to become an enemy of the US is also a non-ambiguous choice. There should be consequences.
10
She wants a "Do-over."
Helping enemies work to kill Americans. Aid and comfort to enemies and all of that. Did it as an adult.
Now, it's no longer convenient...Oh, I regret it. Well, "regret" is not apology. Did she make it easier or more comfortable to kill my cousin over there? That's ok, pass Go, collect your benefit of starting over (or, depending on what's really going on inside you, maybe become a domestic threat, plausible cover for a radical after all...people say all kinds of things, tools you know), do not go to jail.
After all, it was just a harmless youthful (adult) indiscretion, a learning experience. Like going on a field trip.
Maybe we can set a precedent here for anyone to use, friend or enemy..."Oh, yes, now it didn't work out the way I like, didn't realize, now I do, I want a do-over."
Something else: if we let her come back, that's Trump's excuse for him to get away with the far more dangerous, destructive and horrific impacts Mr. Trump has visited upon this country in the same time period. "I didn't know better."
Good idea?
1
There are innocent women who are kidnapped, coerced, or forced out of the US by their families, husbands, etc. and want to return. And there are innocent refugees who have even helped the US in material ways that have had difficulty immigrating here. Let's focus our energy and resources on those people rather than adults who voluntarily left to join a terrorist org.
7
No, sorry, I don't trust them. I wish them well over there, though.
2
I'm mystified why these women might actually be reissued American passports/repatriated to the U.S. They denounced their citizenship. They deliberately joined arguably the most heinous terrorist organization on earth. They used the internet to incite terrorist attacks inside the U.S.
That's treason, by any standard. It is tragic that they decided to throw their lives away and betray their country and enthusiastically support horrifying violence, but they did.
They're not children who couldn't understand what they were doing; but they sound like children, as if now because they're "sorry" they think all should be forgiven and forgotten.
They absolutely should not return to the U.S. unless it is to be prosecuted.
9
My husband is a citizen of the EU. If we decided to move there I would want to be a citizen and participate fully. But, in order to do that, would have to renounce all claim to being a citizen of the USA. Those are the rules, like it or not. (We don't require naturalized citizens coming here - my husband still has both, but the US is a jealous country to its natural born citizens.) We submitted mountains of paperwork and jumped through all sorts of hoops over many years to get his citizenship and prove he genuinely wanted to be here.
So you tell me, why can either of these women disrespect and renounce this country, destroy their passports and support crimes against the United States, and still expect to be allowed back?
If they want to come back, I believe that these women should be tried for treason, and have to reapply for citizenship like anyone else who has cast it aside. If they want so badly to rejoin our community, they can and should follow and submit to the US law that they now hold so dear. There are a lot of other countries that are not nearly so judgy as the US, if they don't like it.
5
Perhaps they should be rehoused at Guantanamo Bay while their status is adjudicated and investigated as to their participation in war crimes.
6
Let them stay right where they are forever
5
So back to censoring for those to whom the NYT panders: "The comment you are looking for is currently unavailable."
Point of fact--our young men died at the hands of Isis while she willingly chose sides.
Once again:
Being young and stupid is no excuse for treason. Many of our young men who died at the hands of Isis were younger than she. If she comes back, she'll be the darling of the left that hates America. Leave her where she is.
10
@Alice's Restaurant
You too? I inquired and Customer Care informed me that they had a problem with a particular link. I observed that an IT technician could remedy the problem quickly, but the relevant comment remains inaccessible. It is censorship, especially after they accepted the post. I am rather taken aback.
3
Way to bury the lead!
Why are they taking back the men but not the women?
3
20 years in prison might be enough to rehabilitate these women.
3
I'd like to know what happened to the American men who fought for ISIS and were "repatriated." Are they in jail? Were they tried for crimes against humanity? Treason?
9
Send them to Guantanamo, lock them up and forever throw away the keys. They deserve to live with their horrible decision. I'm sure the Socialist leftists would probably disagree, but that's fine. #MAGA
4
They knew exactly what they were doing and contributed to the death of American soldiers as well as other people. These traitors should never be allowed back in the United States and I am a very progressive liberal. Let them live out their lives in any other country that will have them.
13
No repatriation. I hope the male fighters are being repatriated only to life in prison or execution for treason.
Sorry, but what would we do if these women again want to marry someone who sweet talks online of the joys of jihad? Let their jihadi spouse live here too?
Her child was presumably born after she renounced her citizenship. She expected confinement but didn’t know she’d be locked in?
She embraced the glory of murdering in the name of Allah. Her child is not an American citizen, and giving him to her parents—who produced this daughter and were credulous enough to write her tuition check so she could cash it and steal off—deserve scrutiny of their own, not a new young child to raise.
Put her at the tail end of the line of people wanting a better life in America.
13
This is a no-brainer. Of they should be allowed to come home. They should be arrested on their return, tried for treason and executed if found guilty. Some mistakes you only get to make once.
Dan Kravitz
5
No. Just, no.
11
After reading many comments, all I can say is that the next time I commit an especially heinous crime, I hope that I can draw my jury pool from the ranks of NYT Digital subscribers.
You guys will make excuses for just about any untoward behavior.
4
No way. They made their beds
6
How does isis handle defections on their end?
I thought so.
10
I have no sympathy for these women and don’t wish them to return.
7
I wish I had a better understanding of why these women went to join ISIS. I'm not sure that I agree with the politically correct explanation of their radicalization or strict adherence to Islam.
I know a high ranking, retired Army officer and mentioned a General's widow who is much disliked by both military and civilians. He commented that the phrase in the army for her behavior was "she wears HIS stripes" and that it wasn't meant as a compliment. I replied - oh, is that like being the great man's wife? He laughed and we both agreed.
My point being that women seem to need to bask in a husband's reflected glory.
Do these girls to go ISIS to be the wife of a great warrior, and perhaps to bear his children? (Shades of Nazi Germany here).
Do they think these guys love them, when what they want is their creature comforts including care, meals and easily available sex? As long as they are in the catbird seat these women turn a blind eye to their husband's cruelty and destruction.
I don't buy the sob story ie the pc explanation given to the press and general public. They really want out because they are on the way out. There was at least some initial ego driven self promotion, or search for glory that didn't pan out. So you get to take the consequences.
As an aside - I am such a feminist that I usually defend women and their actions. But not here because the truth of their thought process eludes me and I would hesitate to let them back here -and not just these two, any of them.
7
Are these women and men of ISIS really repentant and want to return home (be it the US, England, France Germany, etc) because they genuinely sorry or because their barbaric Daesh "Caliphate" has been destroyed. I suspect the later and would not be surprised if many maintain their allegiance to medieval Daesh death cult and could be a grave danger to society. Would you ever trust an obviously psychologically weak person like Mrs Polman to work in healthcare? Would you trust a former ISIS fighter to be a school bus driver. One of the UK's problem is the clearly brainwashed Shamima Begum who shows little remorse, fully accepts beheading, supports the bombing of a Grande concert in Birmingham and has in the last few days named he new born son after some fierce ancient jihadi warrior. Yet she wants to come "home" to the UK. Really!!! Many countries around the world would like the US to take in the detritus of the Caliphate and lock in Guantanamo, because they do not want these diseased people back in their own countries as true justice is fundamentally impossible. Locking people up in a place like Guantanamo makes sense even if they don't want to do it themselves, let the US do it. Funny many are the same groups that decried the US for Guantanamo for years. Clearly these jihadis cannot wander about as if nothing happened is wrong, but how do you try them, how do you determine true remorse should they express it. A question many nations are going to struggle with.
6
These women provided aid and comfort to the enemy. They voluntarily did this. Now that they get caught they are crying poor little ole us. They didn't give one iota when the men they went to love and support were beheading folks and burning them alive in cages. ISIS and their followers and supporters should meet the fates they blithely meted out to others. I would ask these women if the tears the are experiencing are like the one's their husbands victims wept before their heads were cut off. I wonder what their answers would be....
8
The Russians for once have the right idea here. These people will eventually, legally, make their way back to this country. Better to bring them back now while they are still young rather than after having spent 10 or 15 years living in some god-forsaken refugee camp where they will become even more twisted and bitter. These babies should not have to suffer deprivation because of their idiotic parents. Let the mothers be processed through our court system and if found guilty, let them pay the price.
2
These sleeper cells can either live in Iran or some other enemy of US territory, as they felt so passionate about doing before their side started losing, or they can face execution here for treason. We are not morally responsible for sheltering our enemies. How stupid have we become to even consider it?
6
God told her to do it. So it must be OK.
7
The only way I would want to see them back here is if they go straight to a supermax prison, to remain there until they die. Otherwise, turn them over to the Yazdis...
8
If they voluntarily went to join ISIS after that gang of evil, idiotic cowards burned alive the Jordanian pilot and beheaded all of those poor men, these women knew exactly what they were doing and wanted only to join in the evil. If that is indeed the case, I would not only not allow them back into the US, I would also keep them in a camp where the videos of that burning and those beheadings, proudly posted online by the people who inspired these women, would play incessantly, 24-7.
Sorry it didn't work out for you, ladies. But, some actions are just unforgivable. Voluntarily joining ISIS is one of those actions.
11
There is a phrase that applies here and I quote, "not a chance in Hades" to these individuals who so blithely declined the freedoms, promise, and residence of US citizenship for the murdering fanatics and hoodlums of a soon to be extinct political group.
5
Guantanamo!
4
These women want to come "home" to the u.s.? A half Canadian Mennonite and a 20 year old of Muslim background who married 3 Isis fighters? I can't wait to see how we handle this.
4
In the Guardian newspaper now.
US says it will not readmit Alabama woman who joined Isis
Mike Pompeo says Hoda Muthana, 24, is not a US citizen but refusal to take her back likely to face legal challenge
2
Criminals, psychopaths, traitors. They want mercy when they cheered killing and repression. They were fully cognizant. Leave them and their craziness where they are. To paraphrase: “Sell your crazy someplace else, ladies. We’re all stocked up here.”
7
With the end of WWII, we brought back thousands of German Nazi members to develop our missile programs, pharmacology, plastics, aerospace, and nuclear weapons, among other technology areas. Unless we’re a savage race, we do not abandon even treasonous Americans. We punish them, but we reclaim them, particularly their innocent American children. We’re not like ISIS. We do not treat Americans or any peaceful person like the Islamic Caliphate.
119
@Bayou HoumaMike Pompeop US Secretary of State just announced that Mrs. Muthana will not be allowed back in the United States.
14
@Bayou Houma. "Peaceful person"? You're kidding, right? Please tell me you're kidding. You did in fact read her history, right?
45
@Bayou Houma I agree . I am appalled at the many mean-spirited comments following this one. It is no wonder we live in perpetual wars of hateful aggression when the powerful have no mercy for the powerless, inflaming ignorant violence and desperation everywhere. None of this would be happening if we weren't manipulated by vicious, criminal "elites" determined to hoard resources and wealth at the expense of their neighbors. We should have outgrown supremacy, violence and revenge long ago. I had no idea that human behavior could be so chronically cruel, criminal and unwise.
11
I'm a progressive, but not in this. These folks seeking repatriation provided comfort and support to the enemy. They made a decision, left their homes, knew better than any of their relatives, friends, and neighbors, and now acted *shocked* that their home of birth doesn't want them back. Brits have it right on this. Move to strip them of their citizenship. Actions have consequences - we see that in courts of law every day. I'm sorry: but saying I'm sorry doesn't fix anything.
27
Families of those who died also regret that she supported their murders through her choices. Those who are grieving don’t have the chance for their loved ones to return to their former lives. Why should she?
15
The foreign women that joined daesh sat in a place of privilege in occupied areas. They were given homes, slaves, and amenities that others weren't. Some of these foreign women were part of a female security force that metted out punishments that most likely included death sentences. While I don't oppose their children being allowed to enter the US for relatives to care for, I only support the mothers returning to face trial. I hope that they expressed regret and concern for those who were enslaved, maimed, killed, and displaced because it isn't coming across as an emotion they entertain when reading this article.
7
These IS supporters don't need to come home, regardless from where they originate.
They joined a terrorist group and supported their crimes.
So they need to be charged and tried in those places they committed these crimes, in Syria and in Iraq.
And, if convicted, they need to face punishment in these places too.
After all, IS did not leave its victims a choice of place for their treatment.
The US has a legal system that is based on "An eye for an eye", just like the IS.
Why not just apply this idea here too and let the Syrians and Iraqis handle the legal side of these people, try and charge them and punish them?
6
I think they effectively revoked their citizenship. I don't think we need them back. Are they really remorseful or only that way because ISIS has failed. Can we trust them? Sometimes you have to live with your bad decisions.
13
I see a lot of back and forth here but it is really quite simple and clear cut.
Like gravity, actions = consequences.
That's it. These women now feel regret? Those that they and their kind tortured and murdered now feel nothing, and never will again. Leave them or bring them home to serve a life sentence for high treason, murder and terror (after trial, of course). What should not be done is to forgive them.
8
For those who feel these folks should return to face trial and prison, I say Why Bother. Such trials and likely prison sentences would place a burden upon Americans to pay for all of that. Keeping people in prison and providing legal help is expensive. Much less expensive to keep them out. They made a choice with lifelong consequences; let the consequences commence!
10
As a human being I wish I could say I have sympathy for them. I just do not. They chose their path and now they must walk it.
13
"...witnessing executions like those she had once cheered on social media," To use the claim that "everyone makes mistakes" as an arguement for leniency is a false analogy. Most people make mistakes that would be considered pretty run-of-the-mill by comparison. What these women did was knowingly join and support criminals guilty of some of the most heinous crimes in recent history: slaughtering innocent people for the glorification of religious and political zealotry.
As for their children, they, too, may not be so "innocent". Kids are sponges -and these have surely absorbed some measure of the hateful vitriol of their parents. But the children might be salvageable, as damaged as they probably currently are, depending on their ages.
If these women's American families are willing to raise the children, and the women are willing to give them up, let the kids come to the US while the women are left to wander until they find a country that will take them, just not the US.
6
Putting these people on trial seems like a bad idea. Too hard to get evidence. The fact that they left the country to join an enemy army should suffice to revoke their citizenship.
If their children were born in another country, then they do not have American citizenship either. So they should stay with their mothers.
But another lesson here is that while these few hundred people are clearly traitors who do not deserve citizenship, the thousands of Central Americans at the border would all be patriotic Americans if given the chance. They are not our enemy; we should welcome the asylum seekers. They deserve freedom far more than these terrorist supporters and/or terrorists.
8
Ask the Yazidi, the Kurds, and the Shia, who were mercilessly and unjustifiably slaughtered and sold, by the the sick philosophy these women supported, what should happen to them and their children. Then follow those instructions. Americans, who mostly followed this disaster, unaffected, from afar, are in no position to judge.
15
No doubt their are people in the world who are naive, easily mislead and believe the cons. And while, I sympathize these women may be among them, they burned their passports which is on par with renouncing their citizenship and joined another "state". They made their choice to reject this country, why should we repatriate them? Why did we repatriate the men? And, why should other countries take theirs back?
I'd much rather issue citizenship to the members of the migrant caravan and the families separated at the boarder. People who have scarified to come to America, who value what this country represents, who believe in the dream and that their hard work can contribute to a better future for them, their families and the country.
9
Yesterday, February 19th, was the anniversary of the United States invasion of Iwo Jima. Plenty of 18 year olds (and younger!) died defending our country.
They were young and impressionable then but did what was right for their country. Ms Muthana was older than many of our valiant warriors when she made her fateful choice. Too bad for her she chose unwisely.
Revoke her citizenship.
10
Defections have consequences.
7
both treason and renouncing citizenship are well covered under the law as reasons to not admit them freely into the country. As prisoners, certainly.
7
They are citizens, so bring them back. But there need to strings attached. They need to be found or plead guilty to a crime. That sentence should put them under court supervision to regulate their activities.
The kids are innocent and should be placed with family.
2
I usually believe in giving people second and third chances, but in this case there is simply too much downside for other citizens. Two people made bad decisions, we should contain it at that and let it be a lesson to other Americans that if you join that enemy: bye-bye.
7
My instinct tells me that Ms. Polman has a significant mental illness. I would hope there is some way to take that into account as a decision is made on her future.
To think Ms. Polman was raised as a Mennonite pacifist but chose to live with ISIS. . . . There is the making of an opera libretto in this story.
6
There is a middle ground here. These women do not deserve immediate citizenship reinstatement, but we are a country of second chances. Suspend their ability to apply for citizenship for 10 years. After that, if they have proven that they are not still radicalized and accept the principles of tolerance and freedom of thought, we should consider their applications.
Yes, they will have to sacrifice during those 10 years... a very small penance considering their part in war crimes that will be remembered long past those 10 years.
2
I think it's weird to think that someone you has loved,breed,and lived with the enemy of the U.S.A wants to come back and expect to have the same laws everybody else has but still I want to know how law enforcement will handle her cause maybe she has information about the enemy that we could use to our benefit or she wants to harm the lovely people that live in the united states or america but alas i shall not know what she or the american government will do.
1
I believe that the appropriate response would be to allow them re-entry and then prosecute them for aggravated first degree murder. They participated in a conspiracy to murder (and rape, torture and steal from) innocent people. There's no reason they should be allowed to roam our streets.
1
We need only look at our current political situation to see what happens when people who are astoundingly gullible are allowed to make decisions.
I have a very open mind, but I am NOT open to their return. If my own son or daughter had done this, I would have trouble accepting their return. We have no idea how they have been influenced OR what they intend to do when they get back here. Like maybe blow themselves up and take some capitalistic Americans with them. NO THANKS.
10
Yea, this is what we need to be spending our time and money on.
1
The only redeeming factor for these particular women is the community service they might provide in helping other vulnerable women from making the same disastrous mistake.
1
But, tellingly, they have not offered such.
The thought never even occurred to them.
She is interested only in having her and perhaps her child's life improve. And in that photo, she doesn't even seem properly attached to or engaged even with him.
She has not admitted to any crimes, she has not even acknowledged how and why she was wrong, except to claim that it wasn't as she expected. Guess what? Neither was being burned alive and aware what that Jordanian soldier expected. Neither was having their heads sliced off while fully aware what Mr. Foley and the others expected. The blast that recently murdered our fine military members, including a brave and skilled and loyal patriotic woman, what those service members or their families expected.
It's not even like she was already living in the region and was drafted into service to genocidal ISIS; she went to great trouble in order to proactively leave America, travel across seas and ocean and arrange to be smuggled (smuggled!) into daesh territory in order to aid and abet their anti-American, anti-everything not their kind of Islam cruel and barbaric and highly organized hate-motivated genocidal violence.
One doesn't get forgiveness merely by saying sorry. SHOW you are sorry by owning your crimes and paying the consequences and doing only everything possible to stop others from following the lead you had set.
3
My thoughts may seem very cold. They are not born of misguided flag-waving. The nature of ISIS and its actions has been very clear since essentially the beginning. These women chose to make a significant effort to join, and commit to, a campaign of intolerance... murder... massacre. Back on our own soil, young people who make other poor decisions that aid and abet the taking of life are not granted a fresh new start because they plead, however sincerely, that they are very sorry. These people are incarcerated and made to pay for their crimes. As far as American volunteers for ISIS are concerned, the minimum cost of their actions should be a lifetime ban from this nation. If they wish a new beginning, let them find it elsewhere. I no more wish to share my community with these than with child molesters.
7
These women were delusional beyond words. Now it did not turn out so well and they want to come back. But if ISIS had done well and they had a good life there then would they have wanted to return? I think not.
7
How do you go from taking actions to realizing they have consequences?
2
Many Americans have joined cults at various points in time, including traveling over seas to join them. This is a very tricky situation in many ways, but at the end of the day these are two women (one very young, and one with what sounds from her family like mental illness issues) who were essentially brainwashed into joining a cult.
1
I have absolutely ZERO sympathy for these women, especially the younger one who, in writing, encouraged bloodshed and acts of unspeakable violence. Now they've fallen on hard economic times they claim they've made a mistake. They are a danger to civilized society.
12
This headline is itself misleading: these two women were not just wives of ISIS terrorists - they WERE ISIS terrorists.
This was a choice each made freely. At the time they traveled to Syria, the horrific atrocities ISIS was committing were already known worldwide - often, because ISIS was bragging about their heinous acts!
Seems to me that they're now sorry only because their poor choices have not led to glory, but instead to suffering deprivation and abuse, including gang rape.
There are millions of incarcerated people in this country who are suffering the consequences of their poor choices - often, choices far less significant than joining a terrorist group at war with our nation and all of Western democracy!
We also have millions of undocumented workers in this country - the vast majority of who are law abiding and extremely hard-working - as well as thousands of immigrant and refugee children separated from their parents.
Unlike many US citizens, immigrants, and those hoping to immigrate here, both these women had many opportunities in life - which they could have used for good instead of the evil they chose.
Why should these two women be given any kind of preferential treatment whatsoever? They want a second chance - let's give them a second chance - AFTER they serve long sentences for joining, aiding and abetting a murderous terrorist organization. Their kids can be raised by their grandparents or other family members.
5
They have homes, leave them there, our prisons are overcrowded.
4
Thou shalt reap what thou hast sown.
I would worry alot about these women's recidivism when back in a country they had conveniently abandoned, and who were married to people who deeply hated the USA.
They should not be allowed any sanctuary here.
5
Not one person on this site thinks that the United States should let them back into our country. So, why then is Trump urging the Europeans to take back their traitors? When will he shut up about it as his statements are completely contrary to what he is doing(not letting our ISIS traitors back) or what the rest of us think should be done about these people. Are there any conservatives going to come on here now and defend Trump's position on this?
3
These women are guilty of treason. They provided aid in the form of recruitment to our enemy. I want for them what the U.K. is proposing. Revoke their citizenship and leave them overseas. They are Americans no longer. I don’t even want to see them extradited and put on trial. Make them live out their days away from the country they claimed to hate.
5
Munthana made her bed and her horrendous choice. She doesn't deserve to be allowed back and she should live with her consequences.
5
You now show a photo of the loving Madonna & child. She wanted to kill Americans. I don't feel this is an authentic portrait. She should not be repatriated.
7
I thought the same. Out of the hundred or so photos taken, that’s the one chosen?
3
I oppose Trump’s border and immigration policies, but I equally oppose these women’s return. Yes to the people who want to be part of America, no to those who renounced their birthright. Let them live as refugees and as examples to the Al-Awaki enthusiasts of Sharia and Caliphate.
6
Stupidity is not an excuse.
4
Does anyone think that these terrorists won't commit crimes if they were to be allowed back?
11
Too bad for them.
8
If ISIS hadn't cratered she'd still be tweeting no?
15
Donald Trump et al are deporting hard working contributing illegal immigrants that do things like clean rooms at Trump golf courses, but we’re going to consider taking these two crazies back? Sorry ladies, but you made your beds, and now you’ll lie in them. It is too late for you.
19
@RC Really hard working people don't break our laws. Illegals have nothing to do with treason by US citizens.
3
@RC ACTUALLY, they just announced they are going to strip the 20 year old of her citizenship and her family is out there trying to make it a case where Trump wants to deprive their innocent daughter of citizenship. I'm saying now this is a hot potato the Democrats don't want to be caught holding. Come election time they do not want to be seen as the party who sympathizes with ISIS. This is an entirely different kettle of fish than South American immigrants who just want jobs. I hope the Democrats don't take up the banner of letting these former ISIS members back in the country or we will have another 4 years of Trump. Read through the comments from all countries - you can count on one hand the people feeling sorry for these women ( and men).
3
I'm torn by this. My heart tells me no....they thumbed their nose at their countries. I would hate to think it was just for the romance of a "cause"....or were they just looking for a "husband"? We train our children to think...make good decisions....use your brains..... and we still cannot control the outcome. How can you say "I'm sorry" to Perlman's parents? Could these women not see ISIS was so brutal, they could be brutal to them? (That's thinking). Did they not think that once they abandoned their country they couldn't come back? (That's making good decisions.) Didn't they figure out that life would never be the same for them? (That's using their brains). Did they think by just saying "I'm sorry" will forgive everything? My heart tells me no!
9
These women were part of ISIS when it beheaded Americans like John Foley and Stephen Sutloff. Let them stay in the camp in Syria. They were either ignorant or dangerous but either way, they made a choice and they should live with it.
20
This woman is worried that she ruined HER future.. HER life.
After she spent her days tweeting to others encouraging torture, murder and destruction.
Dangerous sociopath comes to mind.
NYT, it’s nice to be informed... but these articles can stop now. These women deserve no attention or nor any help from our governments or communities.
Britain is absolutely correct in nulling the citizenship of its traitors.
27
Heck no!
It sounds dubious to find remorse once your cause is lost. And even if they are truly sorry, why should the country they abandoned care? The country they left to procreate with combatants willing to die in the process of doing harm to their birthplace?
I consider these women Trojan Horses. Peace out, traitors
16
These women forfeited their rights when they tried to foment attacks on their fellow citizens. Enjoy Syria, ladies.
12
Revoke their citizenship
18
I think we should send her whole family to join her and in their place take a Rohinga family or partial family to the USA. Because, like the Armenians, you won't catch them burning their passports and joining an enemy combat against this country.
She is not being sold as a sex slave. Her children are not raped or beheaded or thrown off a cliff or being beaten into becoming suicide bombers. They all receive basics and compassion, she is not grateful for this compassion, just as she never appreciated what she had in this country. She thinks after taking part in genocide, rape, slavery and countless 'lesser' atrocities she is entitled to a life of luxury. She is not grateful for the Western values sparing her life at this very moment.
Back of the line, reapply if you wish to immigrate. She is not even just asking this for her child. She wants to come with. Compare that to the selfless acts on our Mexican border and over the decades where innocent law abiding parents gave up their children permanently and sometimes their own lives to send them here.
I want a Rohinga family to get a Visa in her pkacd. It will help clear the blood from her hands.
As I have previously posted, their unwillingness to view themselves as adults and accept their choices show these women still belong to an ISIS mindset where women are less than men.
15
Absolutely No! These people walked away from the Bill of Rights and the values inherent in the U.S. Constitution. They made their bed, let them and their spawn lie in it.
12
Bring them back to Guantanamo.
13
I'm sorry. America has enough traitors in our midst. Stay away.
12
You lie down with terrorists, you wake up with regrets. Or rather, you made it into a terrorist bed, now lie in it.
11
Awesome! They want to come back yet they are still wearing their wedding rings. They married terrorist, they became traitors as soon as they married the enemy.
17
The Clint Eastwood movie “Hang ‘em High” comes to mind...
Finish your enemies decisively. Why let them reconstitute...
Revoke their citizenships and let them figure out their own way out.
They turned their backs on us and now we turn their backs on them. Offspring included.
Don’t be weak people.
8
Elsewhere, the Times just posted an article about female ISIS terrorists (link below). So why should be let these two return?
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/20/opinion/islamic-state-female-fighters.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage
2
Muslims have trouble adapting to a progressive World, so they reach with voilence. The world owes nothing to muslims, shape up and expect scorn from rest of the World.
It is what it is.
12
They made their decisions willingly to join the ISIS terrorists so now they can stay in the middle east with their children. There is no good reason to allow these women back into the country they abandoned for their islamic dream world.
4
They committed crimes in Syria so let them face Syrian Justice.
9
I think those who joined IS should be brought to ICC in The Hague, and that the Yazidi people be consulted as to punishment.
IS's "jihad" is nothing less than ethnic and religious cleansing/attempted genocide of all who are not their brand of "Islam"
11
How about – NO
A good lawyer already got freedom for the traitor who walked off his watch at night, abandoning his people as they slept. He did not get dead for desertion, he was squeezed under the ‘he’s a misunderstood boy that deserves our understanding’, and got off Scott free.
Then there is the American Taliban, who actually was caught after a fight with the Taliban in AF, and he too was let go because of a good lawyer convincing the jury that it was ok to join the enemy and shoot at your country men.
And now these folk who, after what? 18 years of war, up and voluntarily went and joined forces with ISIS of all things, they want to come right back and rejoin the flock, because they are really really sorry
If you let them, you are telling the world that it is ok to attack the US, aid the enemy, and then you can come right back, so long as you learned from your mistakes.
No sir.
If you’re here, you help push the USA forward. If you helped destroy us, if you voluntarily joined a group known for its brutality and crimes against mankind, you can go ahead and stay with them. End of story, this should not even be a discussion.
6
Let them return, in handcuffs.
2
I definitely think we should be merciful of the decision of this young ignorant girl to join ISIS. Get her a 1-way ticket to Iran.
9
"Both women...were trying to figure out how to have their passports reissued, and how to win the sympathy of the two nations they scorned."
Imo ladies, passports are out of the question now and forever; however, if and only if none of your traitorous actions or behaviors led directly or indirectly to an allied death and you can prove that...then go ahead, get escorted back under guard, plead guilty to willful treason in court, spend 25 years in a maximum security prison and then feel free periodically till you die to try and convince a skeptical parole board of your penitence and rediscovered benevolence towards a Christian based society.
If that's not to your liking, well, you made your bed, go kill yourself if the ramifications of your convictions are no longer appealing and their consequences unpalatable. The last thing any country needs to repatriate and let loose is a potential quisling.
5
Philip Nolan lives.
2
Why are any of these people being brought back, men, women or their children? They murdered, or were accessories to the murders of thousands of people. They beheaded men, women, and children. They kept thousands of women and children as sex slaves. They threw gay people off of rooftops. They burned people alive and jeered about it. I listened to their attack in Paris from my flat there as they massacred 60 innocent French people having a fun Friday night out. ISIS fighters should either be brought back and executed, or left to their fate in Syria or Iraq. These two women are traitors to the United States and Canada and don’t deserve their citizenship. The child is his mother’s responsibility and she failed him. That’s not on us to worry about.
11
We cannot permit her for rentrance. End of story!
4
Actually, I guess I might say a little more about this. It seems as if the New York Times wants to dig deeper into tabloid drivel for allowing the voices of traitors who think they deserve another chance after blowing it big time the first time around. It seems to become a commonplace circumstance amongst liberals in the media industry. If these shameless renegades, which is what they really are, think they should live a normal life in a country which is becoming as pathetic as these individuals because journalistic drivel like this becoming commonplace in the American media, then they should be allowed to arrive simply at the nearest major American airport and be given a choice--for the sake of "democracy" or "liberal decency"--to either become occupants of the highest security prison in the country for the rest of their infernal lives, or sent back immediately to that wasteland country from which they came in the first place. Considering that space is a luxury we no longer have, and that trials for non-citizens by choice are a waste of expense and financial resources, the logical solution is the latter, and journalistic resources would be preferably served by promoting stories of legitimate victims of war, which these women are not. Better yet, just do not waste time on these traitors, deny them entrance once and for all, and stop reporting this shameful garbage, which is indeed "tabloid drivel".
4
I object to the Madonna portrayal of this young woman. She was fine supporting beheadings, crucifixions and the sexual enslavement of Yahzidi girls among other heinous acts perpetrated by ISIS.
I refer the authors of the article to a book published in 2014 entitled, "Hitler's Furies: German Women in the Nazi Killing Fields" by Wendy Lower. Nazi women were often more depraved when it came to the murder and torture of Jews than their husbands.
Many of them were NEVER punished for their actions. Why? Because courts found it difficult to believe, let alone convict women for their depraved acts, particularly if they were mothers.
Let's not make the same mistake.
17
They should have had their citizenship stripped from them the day they left the US. They also should not be allowed to return now or ever. They may have been young and stupid but that is no excuse to allow them back into this country. I don't care if they have a doz kids. Let them sit in the sand and make a life where they chose to go to. We do not want them or need them back here
4
Bye girls. You ain’t coming back.
6
No way.
5
We should follow Britians lead and revoke their citizenship
7
Why does The NY Times headline state that these women “married” ISIS fighters? They went abroad to advance the terrorist cause of ISIS, not to marry their high school sweethearts, and thus changes the narrative. Your headline is misleading.
9
They made their home ! Now LIE in it !!
From the article...
"She took the name Umm Jihad, or “Mother of Jihad.” Home alone as her husband went out to fight, she posted toxic tweets under her pseudonym. “Hats off to the mujs in Paris,” she said in one of them, using an abbreviation for “mujahedeen” on the day in 2015 when jihadists stormed the offices of Charlie Hebdo and killed 12 people at the satirical magazine.
She also urged others to join the terror organization. “There are soooo many Aussies and Brits here but where are the Americans, wake up u cowards,” she posted."
9
Sorry girls- you made your bed, now you lie in it.
2
Nah
1
Absolutely NOT. You made a decision to be a traitor to your country and to advocate for the killing of innocent citizens. You made your bed, now lie in it.
4
Why does The NY Times headline describe these women as “Wives of ISIS Militants”? They joined ISIS to advance its brutal agenda, not to marry their high school sweethearts. They are not “wives” of ISIS militants, they ARE (or were) ISIS militants. Your headline is misleading.
8
Dumb, dumb, dumb. Poor kids. Too bad.
1
Possibly having psychological profiles of these people who acted as though without conscience would be helpful to psychiatrists and then the actions might be generally explained, but now I only find these people impossibly ferocious and frightening.
5
One can ask the question about what would happened to these young wives of ISIS militants if the Caliphate in Iraq/Syria was able to manage to conserve some autonomy like Al-Qaeda is getting in Idlib with the support of U.S. and Turkey. Nevertheless, it will be very interesting in the present situation, to see how Trump will receive back these ladies in the U.S. after his ‘urgent’ call to European leaders to repatriate 800 jihadists locked in Syria under Kurdish care.
2
I could imagine an argument for bringing back the young children of these women, who have done nothing wrong. The women have committed crimes and while their remorse is understandable, they must accept responsibility for the terrible choices they made.
10
Oh but the kids are Syrian; perhaps Yemeni but they are not Americans.
It would be easier, wouldn’t it, if there were an obvious solution that neatly resolved this mess — so that we could feel merciful without also feeling like complete saps. But there’s not. So, with that in mind: Hoda Muthana chose not to only to leave the US, but to slam the door on her way out. She wanted to be an active part of creating an ISIS caliphate, and, according to the article, chased the caliphate even as it shrank. Her current sorrow and regret strike me as convenient emotions to express, since obviously “rent a big truck and drive all over them” isn’t likely to regain her passport anytime soon.
Muthana’s son, though, didn’t make any of the choices that led to where he is now. I think that his grandparents should have an opportunity to make a case for bringing him to the US and assuming responsibility for him.
And as unsatisfactory an outcome as it may be, I think that Ms. Muthana needs to try to begin to remake her life where she is.
8
I accept as valid arguments on all sides. 1. These women were adults (in one case, barely) and made a decision they had to know was risky if not wrong. 2. These women (and men) have besmirched the patriotism of Muslim Americans. 3. ISIS repentants should be brought back, especially if with children, and given a chance to repatriate.
What is troubling to me - they are interested in coming back because ISIS is backed into a corner, and [maybe] defeated, so they face a life as refugees. Would they be as sorry for what they did if ISIS was still rampaging the country, killing and terrorizing? Unfortunately, the only person who knows for sure is them. We cannot know.
If we bring them back and deep in their hearts they would still have allegiance to or ideological support of their new family of jihadists, they are likely to enlist with homegrown terrorists. To safeguard this and for our protection they would need to be on probation and their correspondence monitored for years. Of course that is illegal.
As for deferring to what is best for the children...the BEST for the children is they are not raised by adults who show such poor judgement. That means adopting them out - way away from religious fanatics. Obviously that is not acceptable in our country.
There are just no good options.
6
they are our citizens they are our responsibility. they should be brought back. and they should understand that if they do return they will most likely face prosecution and imprisonment. my guess is they will prefer Justice back home where, at worst, they will one day be free after years in prison. I would imagine that the prospect of a United States prison for women would be a welcome change from what they've been through and currently face if not repatriated.
1
Two different stories. Ms. Polman wanted to do good things for bad people. Her plea for mercy warrants some consideration.
Ms. Muthana, OTOH, actively tried to encourage the murder of Americans. She is not worth the cost of punishing her.
However, her parents should have the opportunity to raise her son if they wish.
6
They want to come "home"? Because the Isis Caliphate has lost the battle in Syria but then why not seek to be with their brethren in parts of Africa where Isl is active? They hated the west and all it stands for. Home Secretary Sajid Javid has revoked British citizenship for Shamima Begum and the human rights advocates have come out in full force against him. Bravo for him. I am fearful that the dual national Isl wife will try to seek entry to Canada her bid for the US fails. If the Canadian government readmits her I will renounce my Canadian citizenship.
10
I don't suppose there's a way to revoke citizenship of people that advocate for the violent destruction of the US? Best solution would be to find a way to keep them out of the US.
They regret their decisions to join ISIS because, well, what other options do they have. Their words of contrition ring hollow. My personal view is that they can rot in a Syrian prison, but alas, I don't think that will happen.
If they are repatriated, they certainly should be on some terrorist watchlist to ensure they don't import their evil into the US. Honestly, their evil is based on ideology, which is hard to overcome. How do you teach Ted Bundy not to kill? You don't. You contain and eliminate his ability to kill. Similarly, these terrorists should be isolated and kept track of.
11
I am reluctant to allow these people back into American society AND wonder why it would be different for them from their male counterparts?
If we, Americans, are repatriating ISIS males, why would we not receive the women who want to return too? The choice to exclude the women would clearly be gender discrimination.
Everybody counts or nobody counts.
5
This is a Twitter comment from @JenanMoussa, who is a working reporter in the Middle East. Basically what she is finding is anger among Syrians and Iraqis because they feel that their demands for justice are being ignored by the West.
“It's really a shame. Nobody is asking or investigating the actual crimes committed by these foreign ISIS fighters against the local polulation in Syria and Iraq.
The whole discussion in the West is whether ISIS members will hurt their countries of origin if they return.”
These are valid points. ISIS and it’s supporters shot their way into these countries. Now they want to just wave goodbye and return to their comfortable lives in the West?
20
Ooops. Guess you didn’t give this enough thought. And now how will we know to trust you in the future? Consequences, my dears.
5
I'm sure they regret it as they are no Isis "state" anymore and no place to live "normally" with their wicked ciminal beliefs. The cause they have embraced, the tweets and supports for terrors actions they have demontrated, offer no possibility for an opportunistic redemption. High trahison during WW2 was punishable with a death sentence. These women -as ALL ISIS supporters- should never be allowed to have a second chance and their babies should be send be back home if they have a family to take care of them.
6
I have a question for these women. Are they sorry they joined an evil organization doing terrible things, or are they sorry this evil organization treated them badly after they joined? There is an awful lot in this article about how it was so terrible for them due to how they were treated by ISIS AFTER they arrived, how they weren't treated the way they thought they would be.
I want to know, if ISIS had treated them kindly, would they still be sorry they joined?
7
@Jen I think the answer is obvious. They were looking for the good life under the Caliphate regime.
Actions have consequences. Especially if those actions include burning your passport, publicly denouncing your U.S. Citizenship, and joining a terrorist organization whose stated goals include killing, killing, and inciting more killing of Americans.
17
No. They can stay were they are at. "You've made your bed, now lie in it."
12
Makes me wonder - what actions would they be taking if ISIS had won and taken over a country in that part of the world?
12
Set up an anti ISIS propaganda unit in the refugee camp and have these women, and others in similar circumstances, create daily youtube, twitter and facebook feeds detailing their terrible experiences. They must publicly denounce ISIS online, engage and debate ISIS followers and potential converts. Re-evaluate their petitions after 5 years.
Redemption. Must. Be. Earned.
8
@Mary- Your suggestion would certainly solve the problem. If these women did as you suggest they would be dead in a New York minute. When the goons have guns and are psychopaths willing to kill anyone for any reason, that pretty much spells out the fate of anyone daring to speak their mind and telling tales out of school.
1
Retreating adversary asymmetric tactic: feigning remorse.
7
They made the choice to leave this country and take up arms for the Caliphate. Had the Caliphate succeeded they would be happy in their world.
No, I don't think they should come back, and nor should anyone who fought on the side of the Caliphate. It's a no-win for all involved. They will likely go on to continue to follow a twisted ideology in whatever backwater place they end up, but they gave up the right to come back here.
10
Bring them back, charge them according to our laws, which I hope would include Treason and conspiracy against America with terrorists, and have justice served. The same logic should apply to Trump and associates, but I digress.
3
I live in a neighborhood with a lot of Muslims from various countries. From what I've observed, their religion is what guides their lives. They do not speak to people outside of their very isolated community, they do not treat women as anything more than second class citizens, they do not dress appropriately for the weather and environment that they're in, some of them who have been here for decades do not even bother to learn English.
Assimilation seems to be something incompatible to them which is why I find it very hard to consider Hoda Muthana an American. She was a citizen, yes, but bringing her back home and placing her back into the very community that discourages blending into this great melting pot we live in is a scary thought. After seeing her give an interview this morning where she said she did not deserve jail time shows that she has no remorse. I believe a true path back to forgiveness should be for her to be held in US custody overseas where she turns on her brothers in ISIS. She has to give up all of the information she knows about their terrorist cells, training, brainwashing techniques, sources of income and hiding places if she wants any kind of redemption.
9
As with the British teenager whose citizenship has been revoked, so should the US citienship of these women. Enough coddling in the guise of respect for rights.
7
At least the Times didn't use the word "missteps." It saves that for heroin dealers.
11
Are you kidding me, return home to America?
If returned home to America I would hope it would be to stand trial for Treason against the United States, with swift punishment to follow; there can be no doubt about guilt, especially considering the type of comfort they have given to the enemy. Bleeding hearts, wake up and start using your brain.
18
These women in the camp say that they have changed, but they are still wearing their burqua and their black gloves. They are still dangerous criminals and they are taking us for fools.
20
hate to say it..... bring them back and throw them in prison. they are criminals.
8
In Hitler's Willing Executioner's, we learn that many wives of German officers were living in Poland and other countries while the killings were perpetrated, that some were present at the killings themselves. There testimony as to one officer's wife, pregnant at the time, carrying a whip.
6
When you decide to cross over to the enemy side you become a traitor. You can repent all you want but there is no going back.
I wonder if ISIS was winning big would these women be regretting their decisions and wanting to come back. The only reason they are doing it is because ISIS is mostly destroyed.
Sorry but we do not want you back. Ask any of the Muslim countries to take you in.
16
I simply do not understand why any educated, Western woman (regardless of ethnicity or religion) would want to travel half a world away to a war zone to join a group of bloodthirsty misogynists. ISIS has made it very clear in word and deed that women are subhuman chattel to be used by their husbands as they wish. This women were apparently bored of their suburban American existence and wanted excitement. Swimming in shark infested waters is more exciting than swimming at the local pool, but choosing the former is still extremely stupid.
10
@DougBackes None of these women would ever be considered to be "Westernized".
Americans have zero common sense. You do not allow repatriation of traitors who willingly burned their passports and chose to join a terrorist organization that commits horrific crimes against humanity. Why are Americans so willfully obtuse about these people? These are not sweet little women. These are hostiles. They will never ever fit into western culture. They chose to be affiliated with terrorists, which makes them terrorists. They don't get to come back to civilized society after something like that. They want the benefits of America while actively working to undermine democracy and freedoms. We can't have citizens like that in our country. You want to knkw what's driving a populist backlash around the world? The Muslim religion and their regressive worldview is a very big reason. They want to live in western nations to enjoy our benefits, but they want to hang onto their oppressive hateful ways.
16
hate to say it..... bring them back try them and then throw them in prison. they are criminals.
7
You made your bed, now sleep in it.
11
I find it extraordinary that such individuals should expect any leniency from the people or government of the USA. Their children unborn or not, are not innocents....as they were conceived by women whom freely let men impregnate them knowing, their men were terrorists. There is no love or decency in that..None of these Women ought to be allowed to enter the USA ever again..they made their beds they lay in them and now they can stay beneath the sheets having learnt the error of their ways..wallowing for their lifetimes and crying in despair..God Bless America and protect Her from these traitors..
13
I'm as liberal as they come, I am also a realist, and a NOPE..........
I'll take my cue from the funny-mentalists and harden my heart to these mistakes trying to un-mistake themselves, life is hard.......life is harder when your stupid
15
@Bob Westfall And it is the hardest when you are really stupid. I too am very liberal but No Way should they be allowed back. Maybe this is the one thing WE ALL can agree upon.
5
Being good after you get everything you want doesn't count as being virtuous.
Being sorry after your bad choices blow up in your face also doesn't count as true contrition..
No mercy for either woman. If they are returned here, it should be only to be tried for treason.
11
Difficult decision, they may be sleeper agents of ISIS. Once free, do great harm. Suicide bombers are not always men. Also, how to keep the children from also fulfilling any sleeper-cell agenda. The mother can easily 'brain-wash' their children also.
The remedy maybe to bring her back and send her to federal prison for life. Treason is a serious crime. As for the children, don't send them back to the households that spawned the radicalism, best they go into adoption under an alias to protect them.
7
Try putting a hat on with a United States flag
Or maybe offending the MeToo Movement and kissing the soldiers who saved you
1
This is plain and simple treason
9
We have no idea the real extent of particular atrocities these women have committed or supported and enabled. Are they that far removed from the likes of Nazi concentration camp guards?
I say never allow them back.
And I would love to hear about any American men who have been repatriated.
7
The example that you never get to come home from a failed terrorist cult hellhole war zone seems like it would have a deradicallizing effect on those watching.
I would be happy to take blameless refugees in exchange.
10
No dice.
Hoda Muthana and Kimberly Gwen Polman did not make mistakes. They voluntarily chose to join Isis and support its efforts to establish an Islamic caliphate.
Repatriation and judgment may be necessary to prevent recidivism, to preempt them from abetting another terrorist campaign.
Ms. Muthana relinquished a comfortable life in Alabama and embraced her newfound role as sex slave and propagandist, becoming a veritable Islamic “Baby Momma” to a succession of Isis fighters with whom she had three children who will populate the caliphate. What a courtship.
Ms. Polman was born into one religious sect and embraced another. Her story is not reliable. The facile defense of post-traumatic stress disorder—originally invoked to describe the anguish of WWI veterans—has become meaningless. Ms. Polman is a fantasist, occupying a world created by her romance with religious Others in which she gets to sport a hijab.
Both women are young enough to educate and reintegrate themselves into Western civilization with the support of their families. If returned to ordinary society, Ms. Muthana and Ms. Polman would add to the already strained welfare rolls for a considerable period of time.
Credibility will remain a long-term issue.
Why should these women be given the benefit of the doubt when Leslie Van Houten, a young woman obviously under the spell of a criminal cultist and psychedelic drugs, remains in prison after almost fifty years?
Why is the NYT even airing this story?
12
These ISIS women are regretful only because the Islamic state failed. If ISIS had succeeded, these women would still be living out their terrorism nirvana, cursing out at America, and inciting random violence on our streets.
14
Um, no.
8
No way. Slam the door in their criminal alien faces.
6
We can perhaps take these people back someday, say in 10 years or so or once the threat to us from ISIS/Taliban, etc. have subsided. Unless these poor souls have some truly valuable intel (i.e. Werner Von Braun) I'm afraid they will have to live elsewhere for a reasonable period of time.
2
President Obama famously said "elections have consequences". Sometimes permanent ones.
Joining ISIS, burning your passport and encouraging people to steal trucks and drive them into crowds has consequences.
I'm sorry, but people are allowed to make life-changing decisions. There are no tollgates or interviews to make sure when you leave the country. Now, you cannot come back.
12
I too was raised in a radical fundamentalist religious environment. I too couldn’t wait to break out and rebel. When I finally did, I chose sex, drugs, and rock ‘n roll. Never would it ever cross my mind to travel to a desert to marry into a gang of brutal thugs beheading people in the name of some pie-in-the-sky utopian adventure. Instead, I followed the Grateful Dead and lived out of my car for a spell.
These aren’t simply teenagers who went through a rebellious phase; they are irreparably damaged adults now with stone cold hearts. I read that one of the young British women casually dismissed seeing her “first severed head in a barrel”. That’s a dealbreaker for repatriation unless it’s straight to court and then to prison.
The women in this article not only evaded acknowledging the brutal violence they knew they had actively supported, they’re documented cheerleading it the whole way through. And they were not only cheerleading, they were aggressively recruiting via social media more of their former compatriots to merrily join in the bloodshed while happily burning the bridges back to their home countries.
There’s a degree of scale that goes with forgiveness of the misdeeds of youth. Not batting an eye at the barrel of severed heads is so far off the scale, there’s no coming back to civilized society. They can stay where they are and work out their pennance to the people of the Middle East.
21
Looks like their due for 20 years like John Walker Lindh. They'll be out in 17 on good behavior and able to restart their lives.
1
Welcome to America.
Via the immigration process, where the vetting will be most thorough.
2
These women are in limbo. Coming back to the States won't be easy, especially after the feature run in this publication and on national news. I can't imagine leaving my homeland to move to any other country, much less the Middle East. Maybe they should collaborate on a book that would discourage other young, naive (men and) women to think twice about doing the same.
2
Despite her regrets for past decisions Ms. Muthana hasn't learned to look ahead to consequences. She said of her enforced marriages to ISIL fighters, "I did know that would happen, but I thought there was a way out." If she is repatriated to the U.S., has she thought about a lengthy prison sentence for treason? Or does she believe she can find a way out this time? That. Will. Not. Happen.
2
The dead killed by the husbands that these women aided and comforted would surely disagree that they are deserving of repatriation. Sadly, the dead have no voice. Someone needs to speak for them.
12
"Nearly all the American men captured in battle have been repatriated, but it is unclear why some of the American women and their children — at least 13 known to The Times — have not been."
I am inclined to agree w argument that these women are not trustworthy to live in US again & that their "regret" is based on discomfort of refugee camp.
It is a huge red flag to me when women are treated more harshly than men for similar offense.
Do any readers have facts abt. what happens to the men who are allowed to return to US ? Tried & jailed ? Probation ?
5
@elizabeth forrest Yes, how come we haven't heard about how many of these ISIS fighters have been accepted back, and what is happening with them?
5
They knew these guys were not choir boys and still, they chose to be with them. Now that the thrill is gone they want to come home? Let God forgive them I can't.
6
Reasonable people can, and clearly do, disagree on this. Reflected in all the comments here is the utter repugnance and disgust that commenters feel for the wanton barbarity of Isis - not just seeking to establish a pure theocracy by war, but doing it by summarily torturing and/or killing anyone who was identified as an enemy, often by grotesquely inhumane means. Those who joined Isis should have known that they would reap the whirlwind.
Refusing Americans who joined Isis re-entry to the US is satisfying - it seems quick, efficient and justified but I think it's the wrong solution. Bringing them home means they don't become martyrs, they receive due process and take responsibility for what they have done, we monitor them so they don't get into more mischief and perhaps we learn more about why people join terrorist groups.
1
If in some unimaginably horrible outcome, ISIS had prevailed and established their caliphate extending their message of hate to an even wider audience - would these women feel differently about their decisions? I don't think so - I think they would feel vindicated about their choices and justified their "sacrifice".
And there, you have your answer.
4
I am in no way an Islamophobe, and I can sympathize with many of the grievances that Muslims have regarding their treatment by Westerners. I try to see the good in everyone, and I believe in compassion and forgiveness. All of us--particularly many young people and those who come from difficult circumstances or who struggle with mental illness--can be drawn into (or easily manipulated into) situations and ideology they may come to regret participating in later.
But I struggle with the idea of forgiveness here. To willingly, enthusiastically, become part of ISIS, which has shown itself to be a group of the most sadistically cruel bunch of miscreants ever to take up a "cause," is beyond my powers of empathy. I can barely allow myself to think about some of the things they've done to people--they make "mere" beheadings seem almost humane. A 20-year-old woman with the intelligence and wherewithal to get herself into college--or pretty much anyone else who hasn't lived in complete isolation for the last decade or two--has no excuse for wanting to become a part of that group of psychopathic murderers. Those who have done so are complicit, and should be treated accordingly, either in prison or in a facility for the criminally mentally ill.
5
I am a very liberal Democrat (never voted for a Republican candidate) but these women seem to have betrayed their country and what they have done appears grossly treasonous. American and allied soldiers have died at the hands of ISIS, along with countless innocent civilians, additionally women and young girls have been enslaved and repeatedly raped by ISIS. These women now want to come back to the U.S. with all of our freedoms and opportunities. They can come back but they must face criminal charges and mount a strong defense. Youthful indiscretion is likely insufficient!
We all make mistakes in our youth, but joining a terrorist group whose only aims are to destroy Democracy around the world. Along with threatening the safety and security of the US, Europe and Israel is so egregious, I don’t believe there can be leniency nor sympathy for these women. They can come back to the U.S. but charged as criminals—let the justice system sort out their innocence or guilt. The deserve a fair trial but their actions will seem incomprehensible to a lot of jurors. Raised in a small town in Minnesota, I simply cannot relate to their decisions. It is a tragedy in so many ways. Deeply tragic.
6
That's a hard no to both. They demonstrated colossal and potentially lethal lack of good judgment and trustworthiness, in addition to a host of serious psychological problems. Let them reap what they sow. Better yet, they should spy for ISIS enemies, if they are not already doing so.
1
These ladies miss their good life in the US and want it back very badly. Imagine how grateful they should be if they are allowed to return. Imagine now how any immigrant that has only known deprivation, disease and war feels being granted access to the US. These ladies have lived in the US, they know what they are missing.
1
It is a shame any members of ISIS survived.
Where western citizens joined ISIS but survive our strategy should be to actively encourage Syria or Iraq to prosecute and punish them for the terrorist crimes committed on their sovereign soil.
The idea of long sentences in abjectly miserable jails and the odd execution really fits the crime.
If after that it remains necessary for technical reasons to repatriate any of these traitors to decency, then they should be prosecuted and incarcerated as terrorist all over again upon return to the west.
If of course we can rescind citizenship and send them home to some other miserable place then that’s acceptable too because it avoids the cost of incarceration.
4
Sad and predictable. Actions have consequences. This woman did terrible things and now decides she's sorry. She may be legitimate in her remorse but if she's successful in returning what's to stop ISIS from using that tool to infiltrate? How can we be sure that isn't her goal? What about the children born to ISIS? Will they grow up to reject or reclaim their heritage?
It's easy for a lonely teenage girl to believe in the romance but returning after years means they may or may not still believe. It's a tough call but also dangerous to take them at face value. We do not need embedded terrorists and we have no successful way of determining someone's inner thoughts.
4
If ISIS had been successful, having taken over a nation-sized area of land and continued to torture, rape, behead, and burn alive its captors, I would think that a large number of the men and women who left America to join ISIS would now feel no remorse for their actions, and they would not be asking to come home.
But ISIS is presently losing, so some of those Americans who joined, and who praised online the atrocities committed in the name of Allah, even urging more violence, and some of whom committing atrocities in Syria, now are saying in essence, "My mistake, I regret my past sins, I want to come home."
That being said, we Americans would be a better people if we acted with kindness and mercy, allowing those who want to return to do so, as long as they are brought back to be taken through the legal processes that have evolved in America. In this way the returnees would learn what they did not learn when they were young and impulsive, namely justice with deliberation.
We would need to spend money to do this, even as our poor and middle class are living paycheck to paycheck. The issue at hand is complex, so I can understand those Americans who want to show mercy, as well as those who would rather leave them to the ravages of the Middle East.
It is ironic that such a god-forsaken land with little to offer in the way of fresh water and abundant food, would have living in it nations that espouse such respect for violence and repression in the name of Allah.
1
What are these intentional ISIS members willing to do in the way of restitution or restorative justice? What are they willing to give up in order to return to the US? How and how much are they willing to help the US and the people directly harmed by IS?
We hear and see nothing of that from them. Nor from their supporters. That is telling.
Let her go and toil to rebuild Yazidi communities, to save children in war-torn Syria and Iraq and Afghanistan. If she is allowed by Allah to live, her life should be dedicated entirely to serving those threatened or harmed by IS. All of her efforts and labor and money should go to this. And she should daily kiss their feet in contrition and gratitude.
8
Thanks for this revealing article. I think that the last paragraph sums it up pretty well, ending: "the United States had an obligation to bring her home — “albeit in handcuffs.”"
We need better education for everyone, to give young people the resources to resist the tempting candies offered on-line by radical groups such as ISIS...not to mention by right-wing extremists of other kinds. Critical thinking, folks: necessary in our world.
It's women like these that make you wonder aloud whether people understand that they are accountable for their choices and actions in life.
2
Bring these girls home and let them speak far and wide about how they discovered they had made such an astoundingly bad decision. They should be rewarded for learning something and changing their minds. Help them publish books and start blogs to educate other young people about the snares and dangers of extremism, not just Muslim extremism, but all the sorts of extremism that are threatening our world. Revolution always appeals to the young and ignorant who see few options for their future. Maybe if these young women can figure out how to support themselves and their children on the basis of what they have learned, they could even seduce their husbands back from the nightmare of pointless war, if they are still alive.
Bring these "girls" home? Publish books? Yeah, perhaps start a "go fund me" account for them. You go, Meredith...ugh.
3
You play the game and you take your chances. There are doors you may choose to walk through in your life that close and lock behind you. There is no going back through that door, not now, not ever. Find another door, or learn to live with your choice.
4
The problem with allowing this woman to return is that it is very difficult to prove any crimes she was directly involved with while in Syria. Europe has the same problem: once these jihadists return, many of them are free to roam at great cost to us, both in terms of money spent on security and, sometimes, in blood if they are determined to cause us harm. This is why governments would rather find a way to rescind their citizenships so that they cannot return. The chances are good that returning jihadists will remain a threat. If we can’t guarantee a conviction due to lack of evidence, we should do everything we can to keep them out.
3
The fact that these women remained with ISIS until nearly the end of its Syrian campaign, would indicate that they are totally committed to the ISIS cause. If returned to America, these women would probably continue to recruit and raise funds for Isis and/or similar organizations. There are already too many people in both the US and Canada who support Isis. French officials have discovered - too late, it seems - that people serving time in prison can become easily radicalized.
5
I have no pity for their warped decisions.
I only do wonder if they pose a greater risk for radical attacks in the USA or outside of it. If we are safer from them inside the US, so be it - but they must spend a lot of time in legal battles or prison - expensive for us, but less expensive + traumatic than the aftermath of an attack.
3
The possible repatriation of each of these Americans should be in accordance with law, not by popular vote. The cases will likely fall into a number of buckets, ranging from individuals who have no criminal culpability to those who committed or aided and abetted in war crimes and murder. Keep in mind that the perpetrators of the My Lai massacres were reintegrated into society without fanfare and that Henry Kissinger, who some regard as a war criminal, remains a confidante of US presidents and an advisor to CEOs.
1
Since I am not a lawyer versed in this area, I hold no educated opinion on it's legalities.
Public opinion should be irrelevant to the matter at hand. Political calculus should be irrelevant.
To do other than what the law demands in this case would be the capricious rule of men over that of law.
Decide. Are you a nation of laws or not?
If you are not, then you accept the shifting mob as the prevailing instrument of rule, and all the unpleasantness that goes with it.
180
@Mark F- Times change and the laws written for another decade or century require either rewriting or reinterpretation through the courts, even to the Supreme Court. If laws were constant and totally clear cut, we wouldn’t need courts, judges or lawyers. And, I suggest, it’s just because our laws often need reinterpretation that we have no shortage of courts, judges or lawyers.
5
@Mark F
"Are you a nation of laws or not?" I choose to believe we are. We need to strengthen our laws to deal with people who like those who wish to return after committing treasonous crimes. In the meantime we are obliged to put people on trial, to learn from their defense and uphold legal outcomes. Pretty sure neither their age, gender or ignorance will save them from being legally accountable.
8
@Mark F, both treason and renouncing citizenship are well covered under the law as reasons to not admit them freely into the country. As prisoners, certainly.
24
Might this be a lesson for those parents who keep their children in the dark then suddenly springing LIGHT (in this case a cell phone) and expecting . . . what? It's like the kid who was so scared of his folks or the consequences that he never tried drinking or pot until going away to college and coming back a "stoner" or worse. This young lady's upbringing, being so fundamentalist and strict, obviously contributed to her poor judgement.
Still, in both cases, we have brought back men, why not the women and their children too? The crime is huge but no amount of punishment will serve as a deterrent to such acts, we either are taught and know that this is evil and wrong or we don't, punishment will not deter future moves like this. Bring them back, punish them appropriately and give them the chance to rebuild their lives.
Bring them back! Are we a country that believes in mercy--or are we merciless?
Besides the above, these women have a powerful story to tell, which might prevent future children from taking the same reckless path to a dreadful future.
I think they need to be returned, and face trial. If they have not caused direct harm or violence to Americans, then they should serve a reasonable imprisonment, perhaps a year or two, followed by a very long parole period.
The imprisonment sentence also would give them a basis for saying they have done penance and so deserve forgiveness.
They should also be required to do community service, for a decade or two, in the form of meetings where they tell their story, again and again. They should answer truthfuly what was good about their decision, and what was bad. (My guess is that once they detox, the bad will immensely over-weigh the good.) Require them to meet with teenagers of all faiths, and hopefully with Muslim American teens.
America has nothing to fear from these women--and much to gain from their experience. If you're a Christian, you may have heard the phrase: vengeance is mine sayeth the lord.
Whatever your belief, opt for forbearance and mercy.
1
@PNK And if they are sleeper terrorists? Nah, they can stay where they are.
1
"I'm not interested in bloodshed," is a quite the stance from someone who left their country and children to join a terrorist organization. I cannot imagine what else Ms. Polman thought was waiting for her, as it seems clear from Ms. Muthana's story that ISIS incites violence even in the "recruiting" stage.
Willingly sneaking into a foreign country to support a group that murders and rapes with impunity is a choice I will never understand, particularly as a woman in a place where woman's lives are of little value. I feel sorrow for both women for their mistakes and regret, and I think America should treat all defectors in this scenario the same (if the men were repatriated, why not the women?). That being said, the life that should await them in America should not be the comfort they spurned - jail time seems appropriate for aiding and abetting a dangerous terrorist group.
3
Why am I not sympathetic? They come back become normalized then what? The relative youth of these women leads me to think immaturity drove a lot of their actions. That they are now having second thoughts support that. Having said that, I don't think they should come back without severe consequences. The one that went on line promising to burn her passport, etc needs to be put on trial and pay for her actions. She was an adult when she took these actions. As for the older woman - it is unfortunate she suffered but then she should have known better. From the article sounds as if she has some other issues going on. Oh well. The worst thing would be if they are welcomed back, rehabilitated and write a tell all bestseller and make the rounds of the talk shows. No thanks!
1
@Mahalo Actually, it would be worse if they were sleeper cell terrorists.
1
@T.R.I.they could be if ISIS is using them they are scraping the bottom of the barrel
In one of the NYT's Op-Ed pieces for 2/20/2019, the author, a women who was embedded with pro-US forces in Iraq, talks of women having become fighters for ISIS , with the future of ISIS being more of this since women currently "fly below the radar". According to the author, women have become willingly active in ISIS, in come cases more so than men. Do we need to know more for the West to deny the right of return to these women (and men)? They represent a potential threat to our safety. This isn't cruelty; it is prudence, particularly toward people who willingly made a decision to join a foreign terrorist organization. Better to allow the DACA kids to become citizens and strip the would-be terrorist of their citizenship.
3
Let them stay. They made the choice, they should live with the consequences.
1
Why would we not bring our citizens back? They escaped and turned themselves in to the nearest American authorities. Having endured the horrors of ISIS and now possessing information, it seems these two people are entitled to the same rights as other Americans. Arrest and prosecute them. Give them the opportunity to mitigate their actions by proffering useful information. We are a nation of laws. Still.
1
This isn't the first time someone raised in comforts of western democracies has been radicalized enough to join forces with the militants. How can anyone so radicalized feel real remorse. Having attained such a high profile, how can she not become a "role model" for equally delusional people? After witnessing violence with their own eyes, some become desensitized by it, while some internalize it only to get triggered later in time to commit the same atrocities they once saw. Do we really need such a powderkeg back in our society, or even in our prisons?
2
My initial inclination is that they should never be allowed to come back because the odds that their real motive is for good vs. evil in returning appears to be slim to none. But my logical, risk-averse inclination is to bring them home and make them stand trial because taking these terrorists out of action may lead to fewer murders, and that helps to protect humanity in the long run.
2
As the Kurdish administrator in the video said, you can't trust these captives' *words*. There are reasons to be uncertain about whether they will continue to do atrocities wherever they land, as ISIS has told them to do.
Muthana, was raised in a strict closed home that trained her for compliance, not critical thinking, perhaps with harsh punishments. She went from a restrictive home in Alabama to a world that was more so. She, and others who went to Syria, knew that brutality and death were part of ISIS, and they embraced it.
But they have been deprived of facts about the full scope of ISIS carnage. They wanted to escape only when the horrors came close. They arrived in Syria without critical thinking skills, and then bought into ISIS propaganda. What kind of choices are they capable of making with such an "education"?
They should be taught the scope of the ISIS horror show so they comprehend the full bestiality they chose, so they might begin to see the difference between their fantasy and reality. There are other choices, but they have little experience with making - or even knowing - good choices.
Everyone wants creature comforts. But we're not obligated to bring them back. Take their actions at face value. Prosecute them as war criminals, like others have been.
2
Maybe with 10-to-20-year sentences in a SuperMax for directly aiding and abetting an enemy, and terrorists to boot. Or, leave them to the tender mercies of the Assad government or the Kurds, on whose territories they committed their crimes.
1
And what if ISIS had succeeded? Would we hear these cries of sorrow and regret? How is this not anything but buyer’s remorse? I find it difficult to generate sympathy. I’d rather see us take displaced refugees than restore passports to these would-again-be citizens.
2
I have been waiting days for my emotions to subside. Only a little progress so far.
It seems she (they) abetted crimes of hate, murder, and destruction of so much.
They should stand before a court of law just as someone else who had abetted crimes of hate, murder, and destruction.
It's interesting to me that despite my own troubled youth, I sense the "not in my backyard" when thinking of them returning to my hometown of Seattle.
ISIS fighters evoke emotions in me equivalent or even beyond that of sex offenders.
A second chance should cost a great deal .
1
Two predecessors:
-Ezra Pound
-Iva Toguri D'Aquino, Tokyo Rose
I am a Visa holder living in the United States, my family of 3 will not feel safe to be with ISIS linked people coming back and living in the United States. There are other countries where Shariat Law is implemented, these people should be given an opportunity to live there and not in a modern democracy like the United States. As a personal preference, we will never ever travel to places where Sharia Law is implemented and where my wife and daughter will have unequal rights compared to me.
This is the land of the free and home of the brave, there is no place for ISIS affiliates here. I am not a US citizen but consider an enemy of the United States my enemy, these people are enemies of the United States. It is only because their Caliphate has now reduced to some square miles, they are repenting and they cannot be trusted. Saudi Arabian sunni Wahhabi extremists will be happy to have them, I don't understand why people are even considering allowing them back.
318
@Justin Joseph "It is only because..." You have no proof of what you assert. And it's sweet that though you are "...not a citizen" you consider "...an enemy of the US my enemy," but that is not how it works in this country. In spite of the current regime attempting to ignore and, in some cases, revise the rule of law, it's simply not how we do things in this country.
17
@Justin Joseph: how truly, truly nice it would be
if the world had "the good people" one one side
and all "the bad people" on the other.
ALAS, things have never been that way.
let us not forget how much the wrong kind of US
[and european and other countries'] support and
pursuit of very selfish causes helped the causes
of countless extremist groups around the globe ...
whether in latin america, afghanistan, syria or elsewhere.
[what goes around ... wants to come home now.]
8
@Justin Joseph As the child of an immigrant mother and as an American I appreciate your sentiments, Justin. I think the reason we are discussing bringing them home is that America is a nation of laws. If legally they are citizens, and that seems to be the case, then legally they have a right to return. Of course, we then have a right and a responsibility to try them in a court of law and to put them in prison assuming they are found guilty of breaking our laws. It's the child who presents a real problem. He too, is a citizen, I think, with a right to return home. Since he is innocent, he has all the rights of any other American child. But he's not any other American child, is he? While ordinarily I would fiercely fight a family separation, this may be a case, as in severe child abuse or neglect, where that can be justified in the best interest of the child. It's certainly in the best interest of society.
21
We must do well to remember that citizenship is a responsibility and not a right. Those that abuse that responsibility, or disown it entirely, cannot be subject to the same rights afforded to those that uphold the values and respect for citizenship.
8
Many Americans are too far removed from their immigrant ancestors to know the horrors that prompted them to come to America: forced conscription at any time or age, brutal dictatorship, rule by whim of the sovereign or dictator, rigid social hierarchies that kept people in deprived conditions, death or persecution for expressing an opinion or a religious preference, and on and on. In recent years, we have forgotten that the true American Dream was the body of freedoms written into the Constitution, not just the freedom to chase after the newest fad or ideology. These women had a highly lacking knowledge of American freedoms and the often cruel alternatives. We need to make sure that every child in school and their parents understand that America's strengths and challenges lie in our freedoms, not only in our economy and consumerism.
1
Forgive. But don't forget. First, investigate and make sure they haven't participated in any crimes. Then, if they are allowed to come back(at their families' expense, of course, not ours)they must undergo a period of debriefing and rehabilitation-call it de-programming if you want-followed by probation and ongoing spiritual and psychological counseling.
1
There used to be a common law in many countries that when you fight for a foreign nation then your citizenship gets revoked. Sometime in the fifties International Laws were put in place to avoid people becoming stateless since that would put them at risk of human rights abuses. For instance, without those laws Trump could revoke the citizenship of all the fake news perpetrators and drop them from a helicopter in the ocean.
The UK neatly circumvented the problem by revoking the UK citizenship of Shamima Begum because she had dual citizenship. Bangladesh now has to deal with this problem.
I am extremely ambivalent about all these ISIS supporters that now show such great regret. Logically the human rights laws have to be maintained. From the heart I feel that there has to be some balance of justice and not wanting to have these bad apples returning to our countries. Maybe an international tribunal and incarceration in the countries that have suffered under the ISIS regime is more appropriate.
2
I understand moral indignation and a craving for retribution, but it is a great disappointment reading so very many comments here with so little understanding of civility.
The law is quite clear. Federal law allows US citizenry to renounce citizenship. If their family provided lawyers cannot prove otherwise, it seems obvious that is exactly what they have done. By American law, their children would not be citizens either, though they could be adopted by family. This means they are stateless, and as such the responsibility of the government where they currently reside.
All that said, we learned something from WWI then WWII and their contrasting aftermath. I believe it is that populations living in the bloody dirt and destruction of a war faire a much better outcome when treated with legal justice, compassion and mercy, and are much less likely to nurture hatred and resentment. When treated well, the prospects of real peace and reconciliation are even possible.
That probably means offering aid and support to the general population these women and their children are a part of. But that is not contingent on restoring their citizenship. It is human decency in the complex aftermath of war.
We are all better off when we treat others with generosity and mercy, if for no other reason than we might make ourselves more worthy of justice and mercy.
The argument seems to be between the "they were young and naive, have some compassion" camp, and the "they did something heinous and we have to draw the line" camp. We keep talking about what we think they deserve or who we should be as people.
But I don't see anyone arguing, here or in Britain re: Shemima Begum, from a place of plain, practical self-preservation.
If we fail to repatriate these women, what will become of them?
That's not a rhetorical question. They will become bitter, they will become martyrs, their stories will be used as proof that the West has nothing to give but hatred and exclusion. ISIS will use them as propaganda. They will leverage their stories to recruit more disillusioned youth. Future radicalizing youth will see them as proof of how America is failing them.
If we bring them back and work to deradicalize them, we will know where they are, what they're doing, who they're talking to. Their stories will reflect western compassion and personal redemption, and can be used to sway radicalizing youth away from that path.
We aren't just making the best choice for them. We need to make the best choice for us.
1
I find the comments on this article to be thought-provoking. First, should these women be treated merely as "people" with no gender bias and be judged as any man would be? I think that's the right way to go. Did they incite behavior in others that led to terrorist actions that harmed innocents? One would have to conclude they did. In aiding and abetting the enemy, are they traitors? It appears that way and, if so and as they are both adults, age shouldn't be a factor. Are the children USA citizens or, as the mothers renounced their citizenship, are they now nationless, i.e., ISIS is part of 'caliphate' that claimed itself a nation and at one time was geographically as large as many other countries. That country will soon cease to exist though ISIS will persist in inflicting terror, so, neither the women nor the children appear to be "American" any more than I am English (my family renounced that with the American Revolution). There is no clear "right thing to do"; however, accepting the children associated with these kinds of cases for adoption and raising them in a well-vetted household would appear to be humane and sentencing the women as terrorists would seem to be the appropriate action, though, it's unclear if that country should be the USA. If it is the USA then an additional charge of treason is warranted. Everyone needs to keep in mind they condoned if not encouraged beheadings, murder, etc. Professing to have made a mistake is not the same as justice.
2
As the European experience can attest, weeding out potential terrorists from legitimate refugee populations is already hard enough. The last thing we need is to be taking in known terrorists who have already betrayed our country once despite the wide availability of information on the viciousness of the group they joined. When one or more of these people inevitably commits a terrorist act in the United States it will be sure to spark further backlash against their former victims trying to live peacefully in our country and other Western nations.
2
It's treason then.
4
I have been seeing these ISIS videos, fighting the God's war in death and depravity. These fighters are so brainwashed, no amount of Truth will change them. In Hinduism Hells are called Anda-Tamas [Blind[Dark] Tamas [Inertia]] Tamas is part of Nature called Inertia but is attributed to morbid states. Entering Hells is like entering a dark tunnel. Fastest thing in the Universe is the GodHead.
Being good Americans would have meant that these ladies give these ISIS guys gunpowder smeared Carpets, a new meaning to Carpet Bombing.
1
No mulligans for traitors! Either prison for life or leave to rot and die where they are...
7
I am sorry but there should be no sympathy for this vile traitor. Treason is one of the few crimes laid out in the Constitution for severe punishment. Worse yet there seems to be little or no remorse from her for what she did. "Oh well, ISIS was fun while it lasted but the party's over so time to go home! Mom can you pick me up." I dont think so. Sure bring her back here, try her and lock her up for life.
5
The children may be innocent and I pity them. But these women are treasonist terrorists. They chose their fate... Caliphate!
9
The women made their choices long ago and they KNEW what they were doing, they also KNEW that they would be used to bear the children of future terrorists. No mercy for them or their children.
2
I have no sympathy for these treasonous vipers.
They chose their fate...make that Caliphate.
They chose Sharia Law over American Justice.
They chose EVIL.
God may forgive them.
I won't.
6
These traitors can pound sand in Syria.
5
Traitors during wartime do not receive “do-overs”. Instead, they get the firing squad. Your choice lady - hell on Earth or hell for eternity?
4
These women are traitors and deserve no sympathy forgiveness.
If they were too stupid that they allowed themselves to be brainwashed so be it.
Let them rot
Forgive them not
8
When you join ISIS, you join ISIS for life.
8
I wish that I could understand the motivations that led these women to choose life and possibly death with ISIS - what is it in Islam, however bastardized, that prompted them to forsake their families and friends ? They now find themselves captives of the prevailing military force properly unwilling to treat them as ISIS would have done its captives. How do we know that they or their offspring won't rent that truck to mow us down ?
3
They should be made to stay there and suck it up. It was their choices. Now that life is really hard they want to come back to the comfort of their old lives in America. No. Traitors are traitors. We don’t want them.
4
Forgiveness is fine, allowing them back in our country is not. Some mistakes (if that is what they were) are forever.
5
Let's have some real gender equality and execute these female traitors for treason. And their using babies as hostages to dodge their criminal responsibility, as so many millions of female foreign illegal immigrant invaders do now, is a moral horror, the destruction of the rule of law, and must be stopped now! If these women are allowed to whine and wave their babies around like shields in front of cameras and sneak back in to (probably to life off of welfare for decades) then our nation has no moral authority to hold any treasonous American male or "domestic" terrorist accountable either.
51
@winthrop staples "as so many millions of female foreign illegal immigrant invaders do now, is a moral horror" What an ignorant statement. ISIS whore brides have nothing to do with people coming across the US boarders seeking a better life because US foreign polices have ruined their countries by placing in dictators, mono crops societies, fought out wars in their homes, have US corporations running roughshod over their lives, imported guns and gangsters to their homes and yet here you are going on with you Fox news Ruch Limpbaugh lies and disinformation.
2
You make way too much sense (for people - and this paper - to handle).
2
@winthrop staples
As a normally bleeding heart liberal, I agree with you.
I don’t trust these women.
Read their interviews. All of them seem to have the same personality. A long litany about themselves. Tone deaf to the horrors they promoted. One of them spent her days tweeting encouragements to torture, death and destruction
They loved being groupies to violent men and doing their bidding.
These women should be tried as a war criminals in the countries they are now.
2
These young women are examples of why ISIS is very effective in recruitment. The decisions they made in younger versions of themselves now have life-long consequences which are sad. They have no freedom to change their mind or to learn from their mistakes.
9
I might add that the millennials are falling into a similar trap: big government socialism. They may come to regret that wholehearted decision. I hope they do.
1
@njbmd I believe that, in the end, Ms. Muthana will return to the U.S. She will have to face justice and probably prison for what she said and did. After prison, she can then either learn from her mistakes, or do it again. As before, the choice will be hers.
1
United States citizens have certain rights and the United States government has certain duties to them. These women are abroad and in danger and want to return home. If they can be repatriated without anyone incurring harm, the State Department should do so. The costs should be borne by the women. Once in the U.S. they should face criminal prosecution, if the Justice Department finds there is probable cause.
18
@Purple Spain Did you watch the video of the hard core ISIS witches burning down the other women's tents that dare talk bad about ISIS? They even admitted their crimes and said, "What are you going to punish us for ever for these injustices?" They are crazy terrorists and make no mistake they will be in the future. I think we should take any children under five from them and put them up for adoption and the older kids and their nasty moms can rot.
3
@Purple Spain
If you commit treason, or join a foreign military, you lose your citizenship according to U.S. law. It's seems clear to me that these women committed treason by voluntarily joining and abetting an enemy of this country. The children were never citizens and are no more deserving than any other child in Syria.
2
Posts to controversial articles inform me. Having cleaned my email box (reading what interests me), I'm struck, "trust" is key here. Some just want to punish, because??
For me, can we trust these people to be productive citizens? Schools, courts, police, banks, friends, etc. - ask - who can we trust to act responsibly, in a humane way? These women are still victimizing themselves. I understand "I'm sorry." But, their choice in ISIS wasn't a negligent act. Even if they can't come back to the US - if they are to be believed - they have a greater understanding who they are regarding responsibility and trust. This is a start.
3
They are of the Muslim faith and their lives are theoretically governed by the principles of their religion. I think they should be repatriated to the countries where they last held a passport and judged by juries mostly made up of fellow Muslims. I am not sure that it is doable under western legal systems but it feels instinctively just and beneficial to society. Among other things, I see it as having the distinct advantage of letting the Muslim community take a more pronounced/definite and official position regarding terrorism. Similarly, it would provide a foundation for soul searching among ALL religious communities and for an in-depth discussion as to why religions so often turn people into fanatics.
6
Did you read the article? One of them is a white woman who has never been a part of a Muslim country. And why can’t she be judged by a western jury? There are people of all religions and non religious folk in this country who are more than capable of judging them. Most Muslims in Muslim countries have denounced terrorism because its evil and most victims of terrorism have been Muslims. Even the attacks in Belgium and France had Muslim victims - because news flash- Muslims are normal people like everyone else.
I wish our national inclination for redemption would be appreciated, but judging from the amount of those that decided to leave their families and adoptive countries to join ISIS leads me to believe that we should better be safe then sorry.... these children could grow up hating the "west" for what they did to their families and may seek retribution as did their parents.
2
Anyone who has ever or now supports a group who has performed the atrocities that ISIS has, will never get my sympathy or support. Never never never.
42
I feel the same way towards Americans that support Russian interests and Russian Assets in the Federal Government (Trump).
2
@ Naima: Have you heard of the School of the Americas?
How ironic that the freedom granted to them as an American led to actions which severed their identity as one (and worse).
It's tough love, but no taxpayer wants to pay for the consequences of their decisions.
21
As a Muslim-raised immigrant from Turkey, (Steve is my nom de guerre for privacy reasons) I say bring them back, try them for joining an organization that they knew was aiming to destroy the US before they made their journey, and give them the maximum penalty allowed under the law. One of the main reasons I left Turkey was because I did not want to live in a country full of people with fantasies about resurrecting an Islamic empire with Erdogan as their new sultan. These women were driven by a similar fantasy that led to the deaths of thousands and suffering of millions of people. They do not deserve our mercy.
24
bring them back just to put them in jail for years and years, maybe life at taxpayer expense? no thank you. they made their choice. leave them where they are.
3
If a 20-year-old chooses to act as an accessory to multiple murders and other horrific crimes, he or she would rightly expect to spend life in prison. This situation would seem similar.
14
How about if we let them (or what’s left of them) back into the US after they’ve been through the Syrian and Iraqi judicial systems?
9
I wish I felt more compassion for these two people, but too much blood has been shed and too much treasure wasted.
11
Three days ago one of our local news stations showed an interview with a woman named Amy from Alberta who left with her Muslim husband and two children to Syria where he fought for ISIS. He has since been killed, she remarried a man from Bosnia, also killed, and is carrying his child. She feels she should be allowed to come home to Canada. She said he has done nothing wrong, she didn't kill anyone, she doesn't regret anything.
Something tells me we wouldn't be hearing from any of these ISIS brides if the terrorist organization hasn't been pushed to the edge of defeat and the caliphate reduced to approximately six square miles. I think they are coming out of the woodwork because there is no where else they can now go. We've heard nothing from them until defeat appears inevitable.
I like to think I am compassionate and willing to give second chances to anyone. But the sudden rash of mea culpa stories from Canadian, American and British women publicized over the last few days come across as insincere and self-serving to my ears. They didn't go to a war-torn country as missionaries, or medicine sans frontier doctors looking to help people. They went to support a brutal, vicious terrorist group activity looking to kill as many of the citizens of their home countries as possible.
My compassion has run out.
70
I agree fully. If the come back it will be with criminal charges.
2
Or we could be hearing from so many of them now because IS has a plan-B to use our sympathy and sense of fairness against us by planting female terrorists and their children who were/will be weaned off of the corrupting, sour milk of brutality and warmongering but, if stay with their mothers, will be fed the bitter food of resentment and hate that still lives in their mothers' hearts, and grow up to complete what their fathers failed to accomplish.
4
Well said. Brava!
1
I feel for these women who made such a terrible mistake. At the same time, their actions meet the judicial standard of treason, and they have to be held accountable. I find it hard to forgive a person who calls for the death of innocent Americans. There have to be consequences, no matter what the religion of the perpertrators.
16
We cannot know whether these two are genuinely regretful or moles, just that they left.
The families of Americans killed by ISIS should be given the last word on how to treat these two.
6
Would these women want to return to the USA if ISIS had been successful? Would they have a change of heart about the crimes they saw and the betrayals they participated in? It didn't work out for them and they have nothing except living in refugee camps. So they are sorry and want to return. As other readers have said, you live with the consequences of your choices and so do your children.
14
Maybe, but no immediate reintegration into American society. There has to be several years of detainment to make sure they aren't being manipulated.
2
If we weigh the potential dangers of these radicalized ISIS brides to American citizens (now or in the future) against their desire to ‘return home’, then the answer is simple: No.
This isn’t a portrait of some innocent ‘Madonna and Child’ despite the photographer’s attempts to make Hoda Muthana appear so.
13
For the younger woman, it doesn't sound as if she regretted anything until she found herself essentially a single parent scrambling to feed her child. That isn't reason enough to return her to America. What if she continues her encouragement of ISIS once she's safe and sound? If her family here is willing to care for her baby, fine. But she made her bed and should lie in it. If it isn't as comfortable as she wants, too bad.
12
I'm sure they regret it as they are no Isis "state" anymore and no place to live "normally" with their wicked beliefs. The cause they have embraced, the tweets and supports for terrors actions they have demontrated, offer no possibility for an opportunistic redemption. High trahison during WW2 was punishable with a death sentence. These women -as ALL ISIS supporters- should never be allowed to have a second chance and their babies should be send be back home if they have a family to take care of them.
3
We have thousands of people at our southern border who, aside from a different language, share much of the cultural idioms and values of the US. It's easy for someone from Honduras or Mexico to assimilate in the US - we are more similar than different. So now a woman who has no real concept of American culture or values, who cheered on murderers and married several - knowing *full* well what ISIS stood for, has buyer remorse. Maybe the Times needed to PhotoShop a halo over Ms Muthana's head to complete the Madonna and child look. We should welcome folks who want to embrace American culture and values and be very wary of letting in those who loathe who we are as a nation.
20
@wlgiv those seeking entry at our Southern border are Christians who are not espousing terrorist beliefs nor advocating radical Islam. These 2 women freely gave up their freedoms to embrace jihad; let them live with it. Decisions have consequences.
1
Repatriating any of these people sounds like a bad idea.
People willing to fight and die and have children for the enemies of the United States are not the sort of people I want to meet at the local supermarket.
575
@Rocky L. R.
I'm with you Rocky. I don't want them in my neighborhood either. But then, what do we do with them? And who should foot the bill for this? If we leave it to others to solve and they fail, are you OK with fighting them again?
I don't know what the answers are, but to just say were done with it has risks as well.
9
@Rocky L. R.
Many of the early immigrants from Europe to the colonies were those who had committed crimes and escaping the law. Please keep that in mind when you smile at the person in front of you at the grocery store. She might very well be one of their descendants ;)
2
@Momof2boyz
I think their may be a small problem of directions here.
I would not equate a person LEAVING the US and committing treason against it before wnating to return with a person rightly or wrongfully considered a criminal in a home country wanting to start anew in the US.
I understand a joke, but this debate (in the US, Canada, the UK, France ...) will not advance much and with public consent unless we consider the situation with clarity and poise.
4
its extremely difficult to have sympathy for a voluntary idiot.
36
She is not an idiot, though. She made numerous choices and actions that took careful thought and planning in order to get from college life in Alabama to Syria and the clearly religiously bigoted, misogynistic, genocidal ("death to all non-believers") IS. There is no indication, given her admittance to university, that she had intellectual disabilities or similar. And all this talk of forgiveness -- has she even asked for forgiveness? Not just from the American people and our members of the military (for example those whose friends and family members were murdered by IS or others they enabled), but also from all of the other people harmed by IS and maybe particularly by her husband and his band? And from Muslims worldwide, whose religion she and IS slander and who suffer the resulting prejudice of others?
1
They should be admitted back here when "hell freezes over." Of course, that could be sooner than later if Trump remains in office.
8
You're an idiot. We should spend zero money repatriating you, but as a citizen, you should be allowed in if you get here. At that point, charged and processed like any other war criminal. I fully support legal immigration and think the wall is nonsense, but here, you have a legit traitor. Sorry.
21
@Casey-I agree with every point you make
We must all live with the consequences of our actions. These women, and men, who willing make such radical and extreme choices, should live with the consequences of those choices. Everyday we are confronted with opportunities to make the best choice for ourselves, our families, our society. Despite being sucked in by the propaganda, they freely, and willingly, chose this path. It will be a long and hard road to reconciliation.
467
@Julie K
They haven't posted it but I said "You made your bed now sleep in it"
That said I must quibble with you a bit. We all make mistakes and compassion is due depending on the level of willingness to admit to and correct the mistake.
But here these people chose unambiguous evil. It was not a mistake it was a fully conscious choice to join with evil hoping for a future where they could be part of that evil regime lording over the rest of us.
You simply cannot come back from that ever. You get to live the rest of your life showing your learned and changed by how you behave but you never get to be treated as anything but an existential threat to everyone and everything.
33
@magicisnotreal
I truly doubt their change. They’re only “changed” now because their side lost. They went to the Middle East to do or support incredibly brutal violence against those with whom they disagree. They owe the Middle East, not the US, Canada, or Britain. They can spend the rest of their lives making amends to the Middle East and proving their change right where they chose to be.
24
@magicisnotreal A mistake is like not putting your wet towel in the hamper after you shower. This is not a mistake. It's also not as casual as some make it out to be either. She didn't just move to a foreign country and married someone, then changed her mind/got divorced and wants to come back. At least in the case I'm more aware of, they knowingly joined ISIS and called for violence against U.S. military on Facebook. I'm sure she did other things as well.
That being said, I think she should be allowed to return with the understanding that she could (and should) be arrested and prosecuted. Then, maybe, after her sentence, she could live in peace here somewhere.
6
I think that we can forgive them like a toxic partner in a relationship, and wish them all be best, without letting them get close enough to ever do harm.
As we say in the South, "Bless their hearts."
12
The article notes: "The daughter of Yemeni immigrants, Ms. Muthana grew up in an ultra-strict household — no partying, no boyfriends and no cellphone." I may be reading more into the sentence than I should, but it seems that the current problem arose when we had allowed immigrants who had no interest or ability to assimilate into, or accept, this country. I do not believe that there is a good answer to the current predicament, but, if allowed into this country and into the same Yemeni culture, how do we prevent her son from following his father's footsteps?
29
@George - No partying and no boyfriend does not create a traitor.
3
I'm aware of children of immigrants who grew up or are growing up without cell phones or boy/girlfriends and who are in religiously observant households, and not one of them would make the decision to join a group like IS.
Stop trying to explain away these people's choices to join what is essentially a genocidal movement.
3
Aside from the question of what to do with these women (who should minimally be afforded the same treatment as men in their situation) is when will Google, with YouTube, and FaceBook finally step-up and do the right thing by removing and eliminating the accounts of those who aggressively prey upon the weak? I'm all for free speech, but the propaganda that claims these lives frighteningly feels like something else altogether.
9
There are desperate families with children crossing deserts, fleeing violence and madness in their home countries, seeking asylum here. In SPITE of the malevolence of 30+% of the our population.
I'm afraid these ladies made their choices when they decided to fall in with avowed enemies of the US. Forgive? Yes. Forget? No. I must live with the choices I make in my life, and so must they. Let's welcome people here who truly believe in America.
11
No, they cannot return! Please keep in mind, they represent such a brutal, and inhumane organization -- letting them return sets a very bad precedent.
19
Let them stay where they are. They made their decisions so they can now live with it. We have enough problems currently in the country; don’t need to import more. No sympathy here.
15
The problem is that the government ‘where they are’ is not inclined to let them remain. That is the quandary.
Saudi Arabia may be an option for them
1
I don't understand the issues here.
Unless there is actual evidence that either of these women formally renounced their American citizenship, they are citizens of the United States and entitled to passports and, even without passports, the right to return to the United States.
If, on their return, the government believes that there is evidence that they have committed any crimes, then of course it is the responsibility of the government to bring appropriate charges - in the United States, in our civil courts.
Our system or "ordered liberties" and due process requires that our government obeys and caries out the law.
4
@Eugene
She burned her passport. Says so in the article.
That's speaking pretty loud and clear. What she did is also the very definition of giving aid and comfort to the enemy. If she does get to come back, it will be to see the inside of a jail cell forever.
5
I consider myself a liberal person and I have a deep aversion to the current administration for all the obvious reasons. However. I do not think these young women should be allowed to return to the USA. This is exactly the type of infiltration ISIS is capable of. Even if they claim now to be un-brainwashed - who is to say they will not suddenly become susceptible/loyal again? Why would we allow known ISIS sympathizers into the USA? Even if they say they have reformed? I believe this is too big of a risk to public safety.
46
Not to mention that frankly this will play right into Trump's hands. I'm not for trying to chase Trump into the gutter but this is a clear case where liberals should stand strong in the name of national security.
7
I’m shocked by the plea to come home, as if Iraq and what’s left of Syria have no say in what laws and atrocities they helped commit in those countries. As naive as they were to get involved with ISIS, now wanting a do over just shows how ill informed they are. Clearly, they have no concept that they helped murder innocent people.
36
They must be repatriated and convicted and imprisoned like their male counterparts. Governments can’t just say they don’t want the responsibility of punishing their citizens, if that was the case what is the point of extradition and extradition treaties?
8
There are so many things in this world for which I feel sympathy, for which I pray to change or to understand or to accept.
I have nothing but antipathy for these two women, and I don't feel any inclination to spend another moment thinking of either of them.
28
I have the perfect solution. In exchange for returning, they have to appear with Trump and thank him for defeating ISIS and praise the USA for being a beacon of freedom, free speech and religious tolerance. Then they can return.
5
@Paul Old saying: two wrongs don't make a right.
I’ve lived my life believing that second chances are always warranted; in this case, I simply refuse to support any efforts to bring these women home. Do I feel badly for them? Yes, I’m not emotionless. But these women threw away there chance and the honor of being her in this country. I wish them well, of course, in their future, just not here.
15
Some of these noncombatant women – fighters are a separate issue – are dangerous and would likely raise their children to be dangerous. If we abandon them in the Middle East they aren't going to disappear. It's like winning a war but leaving mine fields in place.
The question is, if we decide to take them back, what do we do with them and their kids? There are few enough of them that a de-radicalization program would be doable. It might combine intensive supervision with reeducation with the help of imams who strongly oppose Isis and violent jihad. If they can stay out of prison and keep their kids, nearly all of the women will be very compliant.
Religious indoctrination is hard for me to square with my abhorrence of government-sponsored religion. I associate "reeducation" with totalitarian governments. But something has to be done. Possibly the women could be given a choice between secular and religious programs, although I think a religious program is more likely to reach them.
Rehabilitation would also be worth trying for the sake of gaining a greater understanding of why people follow the path of violent jihad and how to keep more from doing the same.
I understand that these women are as popular as cholera, but sometimes compassion is more practical than vengeance. And their kids are innocent by any standard.
2
If ANYONE has memorized the encyclopedia of reasons to reject ISIS, it is Hoda Muthana. And here she is, risking her life and safety to "out" herself and plead for mercy as every one of us have done after a wrongdoing. LET HER COME HOME. We will learn more about ISIS from this survivor than all the spies put together, and she will be able to live as an American again, which is clearly what she truly is.
2
At this point, I think we know pretty much all we need to know about isis.
1
Sorry, but the only way i would want those who took up arms against this country to come home would be to life prison sentence or casket. How could we ever trust them?
13
these people crossed a bridge too far. they are far gone. let us not compound the problem by bringing them back. if they were so easily swayed in the past, what is to prevent it in future.
8
Not to be overly callous, but perhaps people should read their passports prior to defecting from the United States, and going to join a group of international extremists.
When you join a foreign military as a US citizen, you forfeit your rights under American law. This concept should not be difficult to understand for individuals who willingly made their way to Syria in order to produce children for ISIL.
21
I agree with those who believe they should be brought back to the US and tried for treason and for advocating violence. I hope they get long prison terms. A simple verbal apology means nothing. They were responsible adults when they made these decisions.
5
I believe in forgiveness...more than any other single concept, but forgiveness does not mean taking action that puts you or your community or your country in danger. There is no easy answer to this dilemma. The closest I can get to a resolution is to bring them home, try them, imprison them, and later decide if they deserve freedom from prison. Their children should go to homes that instill love and do not tolerate violence in mind or deed.
4
I spent more than a decade throughout the Middle-East and North Africa and while it is true that radical "brain washing" is powerful, nonetheless lets be very careful when it comes to reintroducing persons who have made choices to turn against our country and our way of life. In almost all instances the journey into Islamic radicalism is already present in the minds and hearts of those who make the choice and remain dedicated to the cause for a number of months and years.
While we must, and rightly so, respect Islam as we would any other religion we nevertheless must be weary of any radical movements that espouse religious or political based violence domestic or foreign.
If there is a desire to give them the benefit of the doubt because of compassion or even because of lawful reasons and allow them to resume their lives back into our communities, we must also keep a weary eye on them for the rest of their lives, only because the rate of recidivism with that group is much higher than most of us realize.
Probation has to be for life, including their foreign born offspring's. To some this might be rather harsh treatment, however we do have an obligation to restrict their normal rights as we expect to have as lawful citizens. In this case, they broke the law and became enemy combatants.
There is a long list of what they would be expected to do and not to do, our law enforcement and intelligence agencies are well versed in the art of restrictions and surveillance.
2
These women should be treated exactly as have the men who have been repatriated. Why the gender difference?
8
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
Sure they can come back, stand trial, and await their punishment.
3
In one case discussed here, I keep wondering what the public's reaction would be if a 20 year old committed, say, a murder, and under the influence of an older person and then said that she regretted the action. My guess is that only that woman's parents would call out for mercy.
I think that most of us would say that she be brought to trial and made to answer for act according to US laws and an unbiased jury. The same standard should be met here.
1
They renounced Their U.S. citizenship when they were outside the country, they lose their citizenship or at least I know that's what happened to Ezra Pound. If you're not a citizen and not in the U.S., you're not subject to U.S. law, and thus, Pound couldn't be charged with treason. But neither could he come back to the U.S. The children may be innocent, but they were never Americans. In my view, they should just be released. I can't fathom why we, in the country, would have any responsibility for them.
5
If they were men nobody would even consider letting them back in.
5
@Luciano Except the article says most of the men have, in fact, been repatriated. Presuming the men were the actual combatants, why are the women being treated differently? Isn't this a question of how to properly apply the law and, in the case of the dual citizen, of whether Canadian or U.S. law takes precedence? Gathering a bunch of random opinions isn't particularly useful.
They are U.S. citizens. We cannot bar them from their home. When they arrive, the women should face charges and the children should go to relatives to be raised. They must face consequences for their choices, but ultimately they have a fundamental right to come home.
5
Both of these women were educated adults living in first-world countries who made a choice. If they couldn’t make a judgment call that joining a violent extremist group was wrong or would have consequences should they want to return to the countries they turned on, then I highly doubt they would be low-risk members of society now. Decisions and actions have consequences. There are a lot of people I have sympathy for in this world, but these women would never make that list. There is no “just kidding, I didn’t mean it” defense in terrorism or the willful intent to be a part of a terrorist group.
8
They don't seem to have changed opinion for the things they were advocating when they decided to go there. They only realized how difficult it is to live there, running homeless with a cold from town to town and husband to husband... They even burnt their passports.
I would be more open to discussion if they showed some regret about the crimes they have been part of.
5
There should be some decisions that lead to a one way ticket, and this is one of them. Who didn’t see this happening? But they left voluntarily to support a violent terrorist organization that murdered American military and lay men, women, and children in the most brutal ways. They should not be allowed to return to America.
3
Sorry, actions have consequences. Joining ISIS made them enemies, or worse, traitors of the United States. They should never be allowed to return. What kind of message would it send to others if we allowed traitors to return to the country they left to fight against?
6
These women were full adults when they made their decisions. The way they are dressing shows they are still buying into the denigrating views on women (the ones where men control women - a viewpoint that allows rape and doesn't even criminalize it). These women, of their own free will, went aided murderers. Bring them home. Put them in jail. Put the kids with relatives. The ones that we owe are the American citizen children. Not one of those women seem to be repentant. Also, we should give money to the Kurds.
10
@BNYgal
Feel free to give money to the Kurds. Not mine, thanks. I don't feel like paying for a trial for these traitors either. Why would we? So a sympathetic jury can absolve them in whole or in part of their guilt? They've not disputed the facts. Nothing to try.
1
These people are not redeemable. They participated in murder. No deal for them.
18
Keep them out. Too many security sacrifices and violations of the Constitution to keep citizens "safe". 'Nuff said.
6
Did anyone even read the article? Why have all the men been repatriated but none of the women and children? Why are these innocent children being left to grow up in refugee camps?
5
@Sara
People read the article. I'll bet they just didn't see the unexplained gender issue as the most important takeaway.
5
I don't want one cent of my tax dollars supporting her or her kid
1
@Wine Country Dude Some of us don’t really care about gender issues. Sick of it as a matter of fact.
1
De brief them, then prosecute with leniency.
3
Prosecute to the fullest extent of the law.
5
If the U.S. repatriates these unrepentant women (have any of them really apologized to the country for committing treasonist acts?), then they will be subject to our judicial process, likely convicted, jailed, and the taxpayers' dollars will support them during their period of incarceration. Their children likely will enter the foster care system and taxpayers again write the check to support the offspring. While I believe in charity and forgiveness, the abject lack of contrition by these women is deafening. Revoke their U.S. citizenship -- which is a privilege, not a right -- and send them eslewhere.
3
But if the men are repatriated and then convicted and incarcerated at tax payer expense, why not the women? Did you actually read the full article?
When you have sworn allegiance to an ideology that wants to destroy the Western way of life, you cannot just say "oh my bad" and come home when you don't like it anymore.
I am very sorry for these women and their kids. That doesn't mean I want them back here. I don't think we could ever trust them again.
7
These losers are our problem. We shouldn't burden other countries with housing them. Assuming there are reasonable grounds for charging them, bring them back here for trial and -- most likely -- conviction and imprisonment, for a long time, I hope.
5
@Marc
Not our problem, anymore.
They chose their fate... Caliphate.
Why should we spend a dime to prosecute and imprison these traitors?
1
There is much talk in the comments about treason. Treason is a crime against a country. What these women chose was to abandon civilization itself by joining the most violent faction, famous for its gruesome murders and the killing of innocents. After seeing all that up close, they were even more ardent. If ISIS had won would there be any regret? Or is it a life eating grass? Now they want the comforts and safety of civilization again. Their crime is not treason against the US but crimes against humanity.
12
They are citizens, plain and simple. They have apparently committed crimes. They get dragged home, they go on trial.
It’s simple, unless you prefer to trash our laws and the Constitution.
5
Sounds very vengeful and extremely uncharitable but the bottom line is - I have zero empathy for these women. They were not young, uneducated girls who were coerced into the world of horror. They are not innocent. They knowingly, deliberately did what they did. Not only were their actions treasonous but they also doomed their families. The devious actions of these girls have left these families between a rock and a hard place. They are just Americans who happen to be Muslims. The families are not terrorists but now they are looked down upon - by the Country and their faith. It is easy to just say, "forgive these women because they just went astray " But how can you argue away their role as enablers? Remorse, guilt? Not enough when they were gleeful about burning their American passports! They can come back but into a high security prisons. But I have great empathy for their innocent children. They have also been branded forever for no fault of their own.
5
They have decided to pursue an evil ideological movement. They aided in the expansion of this horrid campaign by providing support, via marriage, to terrorists who slaughtered men, women and children. Their "husbands" beheaded untold number of innocents, videotaped the slaughter and broadcast the horrors they were inflicting. Mass graves, rape, murder, destruction were the ethos of this movement and these women willingly joined.
These women should never be allowed back into the US. They made choices that help to fuel death and destruction.
11
Traitors often have second thoughts, regrets, laments, or in the words of Mike Tyson, "Everyone has a plan until they punched in the mouth."
No, Hoda, the door is closed.
5
No mention of why men have been repatriated but not women. Did i miss something here? I am also reminded of the widow of one of the Marathon bombers. She seems to have been exonerated after her hubs built bombs in her kitchen. Hmmm
4
ISIS is arguable the most brutally evil organization in the world.
And they videotaped it. Did you watch?
No way back.
The fact there are American immigrant families that could even raise someone with that kind of judgment is extremely troubling and evidence that our legal immigration system should be reformed to prioritize applicants that share liberal Western values (and completely screen against those that harbor reactionary fundamentalist Islamic values—our immigration system can’t be a Trojan horse).
8
What has social media done for the world?
2
Let them come home and run for congress... the more the merrier.
1
They MUST be brought back AND tried, just like the men. It’s sad they will be bringing children with them; children who did not ask or choose the lives their mothers chose. Remember the main reason these women were brought in was for propagating, and growing the caliphate. These small, currently innocent, beings need to be nurtured in love by the families of these women, as far as possible. The women must pay the price of their crimes, and their children must be brought up to love their mothers and forgive their mistakes.
4
Too bad. If ISIS had won, they would not be asking to come back. Their husbands got killed in the war? Let them try to find another and live out their life’s in a camp or village.
1
I noticed that these women say they realize there's a problem when they start missing their family, but nothing when their husbands are literally killing human beings for not being Muslim enough.
Doesn't seem like their priorities are straight. If they do intend to return to the US, they better be ready to face every criminal charge laid out against them. If they start making excuses to weasle their way out of it (which is almost a certainty), I have absolutely no sympathy for them.
7
The short answer is no. Absolutely, no. Some decisions have life long consequences. This is one of them. You, my dear, are a traitor.
5
No.
These women made their choices to participate in a truly debased, humanitarian and human rights nightmare predicated on a philosophy of misogyny, homophobia and anti-intellectualism.
Their support contributed to untold suffering and brutalization and killing of thousands throughout the region. The only thing that doesn't classify them as war criminals is that - as far as we can tell - they never carried weapons into battle.
No. They deserve no safe harbor, no redemption for their crimes, no forgiveness for their insidious and putrid fanatical beliefs.
I for one am content to know that they'll spend the rest of their days rotting in some camp under a hot sun.
3
Lady ISIS Brides, a title from one of Tom Wolfe's novels has the answer for you.
2
I read this and I understand how Donald Trump got elected president. The average American thinks making excuses for this person is absurd.
Sometimes you got to sleep in the bed you make and this girl's bed is in Syria.
5
These women should be treated the same as US citizen men who left US to fight for ISIS. No better, no worse.
The right with their blind patriotism should take a look at most of these comments for examples of our (left) eyes-wide-open patriotism <3
2
They should be tried in a court of law with all the judicial guarantees afforded in the US. The problem will be proving their crimes. I guess joining a terrorist organization and inciting terrorism are the easy ones. Let the families take care of the children.
@Phantomnyc That's probably what the law requires. The sentence should be very long: 25+ years in prison. They won't see their kids mature...which is one type of punishment, too.
The children of these women will grow up to "explore their identity"; some will choose to re-embrace terrorism. They will not be mature people b/c they grew up w/o fathers, or knowing their fathers.
Our government should NOT risk that; do NOT allow these women back in.
1
As a liberal democrat, I don’t want to live with religious fundamentalists- Christian, Jewish, Muslim or any other flavor of insanity.
These people are the biggest threat to our society, our rights and progressive policies. Why should we welcome anyone back who is clearly aligned with insane fundamentalists? We have our hands full with the ones who already live here.
2
As a Republican conservative, I agree
Additional thoughts are these women were shooting for the downfall of America as well as people in their chosen region, Isisville. They deserve none of the support one would get as a citizen of the USA. I also believe any man, other women, trans, or any other self-identified group should be treated the same.
Comfort women. They volunteered to become comfort women for ISIS. Judging from the posts cited, Muthana was all in as well. What were they expecting?
1
I can't believe the number of people commenting that we should offer these traitors the benefits of the American justice system. These women are no longer eligible, having revoked their allegiance to our country a long time ago. If they couldn't figure out that they were affiliating themselves with people whose thinking hadn't evolved in centuries, that's their problem. My sympathies lie with all those innocents who have been murdered by terrorists, not by people like these traitors.
1
These insanely adventurous young women knew of the unspeakable brutality of the regime they chose to willingly follow, yet follow and join they did. Just from the headlines alone, they knew of the decapitations, the burnings, the drownings, the mutilations, the sundry atrocities of innocent young men -- their captives -- and they also had knowledge of the rapes, the sexual slavery and violence directed against women before they booked passage to Syria to meet up with their monsters. However dissatisfied they may have been with lives at home, it could not have been anywhere near the routine barbarity they were signing up for. Take 'em back? Not on your life!
8
Is the Madonna like photo supposed to tug at our hearts? If so it's an epic fail for me. College educated, not a citizen, burning a passport and renouncing the country that gave you a home and now you have buyer's remorse? So sorry, your leaving was a final sale. No deposit no return (to America). Enjoy Syria.
9
@Margo Channing If she were fat, homely, and childless as opposed to young, pretty and a madonna, I suspect there would be less sympathy than if we imagined her urging Americans to run other Americans over with a truck or her applauding the beheading of innocent fishermen.
Sorry; Really sorry for them.
But leaving your country and getting married to a terrorist is a one way ticket. Actions have consequences. That's called Karma.
Same for people who collude with Russia.
3
You betrayed your country and now you want back in? I really have a tough time with allowing them back in.
2
Would they be begging for "forgiveness" if ISIS had achieved its goals?
4
For all those who would have these women extradited, tried, incarcerated if found guilty and then deported, where would you have them deported to? Or would you have them become real life Philip (Phyllis?) Nolans?
As you sow, so shall you reap.
2
The younger woman says that she is deeply sorry and bemoans her ruinous life. Yet, she made no apology to the lives, including her child's, that she has ruined . Shameful!
The child should be returned. But, to whom? Obviously, neither set of grandparents had failed to raise their children properly. Poor kid!
@RK. No obligation to the child. He is not a citizen.
In the France24 video, one of the jihadi brides states "the decapitations, unfortunately you get used to it." I'm sorry, I could never get used to that and don't want anyone allowed back into the United States that expressed that type of sentiment.
9
Does anyone think that if ISIS took over the world and slaughtered all infidels, that these women would be regretting their decision and apologetic? No. Just like the male jihadists that died in battle, they should have perished too as part of a horrible group of people inflicting atrocities on innocent people. I have just as much sympathy for them as I do for the male terrorists which is exactly zero. These people are the enemies of a free and just society, and have no redeeming qualities.
2
She should be allowed to return and then executed on national TV.
Honestly, if they her come back I might just kill her myself. Not like a jury would convict.
These women carry two major problems. They committed an act of Treason and they blindly followed their religion and used it to justify their potential Treason. What did we do with Aaron Burr? The way seems to be clear.
Sure they can come back. A year from Shavuot they can come back.
1
Many of the comments to this article defending the ISIS brides remind me of the mother of a just convicted felon standing out on the courthouse steps and proclaiming "Oh, but he's such a good person."
1
Now that ISIS is defeated, they have no hope for the future?
1
In the France24 video, one of the jihadi brides states "We are human being." Right, and so were all of those innocent people your ISIS husbands brutally murdered.
4
Joining a terrorist organization that is an avowed enemy of the USA and the west, should end your citezenship.
The problem here is not that the men have been repatriated and the world men haven’t, it is that anyone has been repatriated.
If they have to be brought back, let them renounce their citizenship, designate them enemy -combatants and send them to gitmo.
The children can be raised by the baby daddy family.
1
The price for considering their return should be for them to take an active role in retribution on say 10 ISIL fighters- make their bones!
1
Both traitors and fools, these women aided and abetted murderous killers...enemies of all humanity. Today, the STILL equivocate and don't fully acknowledge their acceptance of the brutalities. No making excuses for them. IF they come home, they should come only to a cell in which they should live for a VERY long time. Actions have consequences. TS.
2
They need to stand trial in the U.S. system ... they committed treasonous acts
1
At first I felt sorry for Hoda Muthana. People make regrettable mistakes all the time. Then I read the part where she urged followers to rent a big truck and run over as many people as possible. Most of us, when we said or did stupid things, did not urge people to murder. That's the point where she lost me.
Twenty-years-old is not a kid. She was old enough to know better. I don't have an answer. I do feel sorry for the little boy.
6
Actions have consequences. And while we can agree what has happened to them is terrible, it was easily avoidable. All they had to do was not join a terrorist organization. That's a pretty low bar.
Yes, bring them back. Have them stand trial and let the chips fall where they may. But they absolutely can not, nor should they be brought back with a clean slate.
13
Even though I have tried hard to imagine what I would do if these were my daughters (I have two), I have no sympathy for these women and their crocodile tears.
If this article and others like it are supposed to make us feel sorry for them and welcome them back with open arms, it's not working.
If they return, they deserve to be punished as extensively as the law allows.
12
Such a polarizing issue. It sounds like both women are edge cases, i.e., neither was a middle class socialized American who suddenly became entranced by a corrosive ideology. Both came from repressive backgrounds, so they were vulnerable to this sort of propaganda. Before rushing to judgment, we should use their experience to learn from. Gain knowledge about the mechanics of recruitment and how it impacts people, hopefully developing strategies to prevent it. Then, of course, a considerate review of both women and how they are now -- has this been a learning experience for them and they can understand a better way to go forward? Or is the ideology a part of them and they remain a danger? As readers, we can't know. Pronouncing judgment from the outside makes no sense. Hopefully they will be treated respectfully but pragmatically.
1
I wonder why those who are sympathetic to these women, and think they should be forgiven and rehabilitated, aren't equally sympathetic to all the young men who grow up in dire circumstances, are forced into gangs, and commit a murder or two and some other violent acts while still in their teens? These women had choices, free will, and some maturity and education, so why should they be forgiven and "re-assimilated" when our prisons are filled with teens serving lengthy sentences? Also, as other comments have noted, at least one of these women was never "assimilated" in the first place, and is very unlikely to embrace American ideals if she is brought back to the US.
7
England is refusing to repatriate at least one of the women, who has dual Pakistani citizenship. So -- she can go to Pakistan if they will take her. She is not a stateless person.
I have no sympathy for these women. They were deeply involved and complicit in the crimes committed by the fighters. They have earned the pain they are feeling now.
10
@Remembers History As a Muslim woman, she should be delighted to live in Pakistan, a Muslim state.
My heart goes out to these individuals but as much as I would like to say "give them a second chance" I can't. They renounced their way of life and joined an enemy of our society. An enemy that cries for the death of our society. How can we possibly trust their motives for returning to a life they deserted in favor of ISIS? Sorry, they made a really bad choice.
9
Okay, bring the American home in handcuffs and let the judicial system handle her case. The child should be placed with family, if they will have him. Otherwise, foster care. This is how criminals are treated in this country. Not much room for debate.
2
Bringing her back gives her another chance though, more than likely, she'll get in front of a liberal judge in the ninth circuit and be set free, heck she might even get a reward
I think we should bring them back. This is the merciful decision, as well as the decision that is in our self-interest. These women have information that could help us. They should face appropriately severe consequences after we bring them back, but we have a chance to show the world that our values are superior, and here is why.
1
Do you guys remember John Lindh Walker? He was the US citizen caught fighting for al Queada after 9/11. He was brought back to the US, tried and sentenced to 20 years in prison. Muthana may not get the same treatment since she may be viewed as not having any worthwhile information. I think she will be left over there to fend for herself and her child. I don't think the State Dept will be going out of their way to reissue her passport. Besides, what are the chances the Trump Admin would let her come back - they are not even letting in decent, hardworking people, let alone anyone who voluntarily joined ISIS.
1
These women were adults when they made their decisions, and they should accept the consequences. Perhaps sympathizers will raise funds to help children of such women, but to make their lives better somewhere else, not in the country they chose to defy.
1
There is usually no return from crossing the Rubicon.
7
I had so hoped that I would be more compassionate for these women than I am turning out to be. I want to understand that they made a bad decision, that they were young and impressionable and now regret their early foray. What is surprising to me is that when I discuss this issue with friends who are otherwise compassionate--forgiving for murder, for instance, when it comes to going to fight with ISIS, the line is drawn. It may be that our reluctance to be compassionate has more to do with the woman's association with Islam and Terrorism and the irrational fear of "Muslims" or just the fact that it was war, but there is something about this act, this time, perhaps coming after 9/11 that has made it much more difficult for me to find the compassion that I so hoped was there...right now...I 'm struggling...as I believe most Americans are..
3
I think she needs to account for her actions and be treated as an enemy asset.
2
For me, the first line says it all...."She was a 20 year old..." This was not some teenager acting out. She made a conscious decision as an adult to embrace the Islamic State as well as denounce the United States going as far as to advocate violence and cheering executions.
How can we say no to the many immigrants who want to come to this country believing in its liberties, its way of life and the opportunities it offers while allowing someone like her to return?
8
We are currently deporting illegal immigrants for minor transgressions like traffic violations. Some have lived here peacefully and productively for decades and are parents to American citizens. Given that reality, why would we bring home enthusiastic enemy combatants, even if they face the American justice system? To me, they are dramatically less worthy than the hard workers we are currently deporting.
12
Actions have consequences. Many who commit crimes regret their actions. They must still face the consequences, including legally prescribed punishment. In these cases, the women actively supported and participated in one of the most vile and violent organizations imaginable. Thousands upon thousands lost their lives at the hands of ISIS; millions had their lives destroyed; irreplaceable historic monuments were desecrated.
They should be punished to the full extent of US and international law. Whether they should face punishment in the US or abroad is a legal matter, but they must be held accountable.
The article states "Nearly all the American men [who joined ISIS} captured in battle have been repatriated." The article does not describe what happened to these men after they returned home. I very much doubt they were let off without punishment.
2
As a feminist I am aware of a double standard in our society that still permeates our culture- that a woman is incapable of evil deeds unless she is mysteriously under the influence of an evil man. You see it in the criminal justice system- women’s prisons have more opportunities for learning, classes, and opportunities to be with their children than incarcerated men. In sentencing they are so often seen as bystanders caught up in the crime because of blind love, ignorance and support for the man. None of these women were children when they left the country to join ISIS. It took inguinuity to deceive their families, the government, and laws to travel across the world to join a vicious group. Stop treating them as lost little girls- they had zero empathy for the citizens of France in the attacks. Strict upbringing doesn’t cause you to lose the ability to have empathy- Chinese American families often forbid dating and outside distractions until college is completed to a very successful outcome. That they didn’t join the combat had more to do with the fact that ISIS was traditional in their values toward women and saw them as sexual companions and producers of new humans to lead the caliphate in the future, rather than their reluctance to fight.
4
While I have neither sympathy nor empathy for either woman - or anyone who joins ISIS - I do feel terribly for the child. He is little older than a baby and is in no way responsible for the horrific actions/behaviors of his parents. As an American, he should be repatriated back to the US, and given to his grandparents to raise - if they will take him. And no, this should not be the mother's choice; she lost her ability to decide what happens to him once she joined a terrorist organization. Let us not forget our humanity in regard to the boy - bring him home.
1
@Jelly Bean He is not an American.
These women remain US citizens. International law (to which the US is a signatory) makes it illegal to revoke citizenship and make somebody stateless.
They can be tried for crimes (potentially even for treason), but they cannot be denied citizenship.
2
Why were the men de-briefed but the women were not? I'm ambivalent. How could one possibly believe that murdering people is justified? I tend not to believe the crocodile tears of the grass-is-greener apologies. If they bring them back, they should face sentencing. But were the men given the same treatment?? And why should U.S. taxpayers foot that bill? No easy solutions.
1
@Debussy. The men were no saddled with infants and children who also must be accounted for. There have, I believe, been childless women who returned from the ISIS state.
I don't want these women to return to the US. You'd think I'd believe otherwise as I'm a civil rights and criminal defense attorney. However, there are lines which few people can cross and then return. For instance, people with no history of violence do not simply wake up one day and commit heinous violence. Unless a person's psychopathic, they must cross line after line, which normal people not only refuse to cross, but don't even get close to, before they finally cross the final line. It's why most violent offenders are recidivists. As documented, these women didn't wake up one morning and join ISIS. They started with reveling in ISIS videos of innocents being decapitated, and after far more, finally left the US, joined ISIS, and burned their passports.
That's me writing as someone who's dealt with people who deliberately desensitized themselves to brutal violence. Now there's me, the civil rights attorney.
U.S. born citizens, which Hoda Muthana is, can't under the 14th Amendment have their citizenship revoked against their will. They can renounce citizenship. The question is: Did Muthana burning her passport in-itself constitute renunciation? No. Naturalized citizens can be denaturalized if they become members of a terrorist group like ISIS within 5 years of being naturalized. Muthana cannot. However, while the U.S. government cannot bar Muthana if she's able to enter the U.S., since she destroyed her passport and has been added to the no-fly list, she cannot get here.
3
Often people who go to jail for crimes they regret. Some are young or emotionally disturbed when they've committed their crimes. Some, have committed twisted crimes in the name of God. But, they are obligated by our system to take their punishment and accept their responsibility.
These women were accessories in heinous crimes. They are not simply prisoners of war. If there is a way to bring them back and try them for treason that seems like the most appropriate approach.
2
This morning I was watching on TV an ICE raid on a house full of people who came to this country undocumented. These people came to work (and they work hard) to try to better their lives and the lives of the family they left behind. Going out into the world to help create chaos, death, destruction and suffering is something I simply do not understand. I feel for the poor children of these women and hope they did not absorb the negativity their mother's created. Who would you rather have in your country?
2
Neither, the only difference is one is a criminal, being illegal, and the other one is an enemy combatant, neither have a legal status or the right to be in this country
The article states that "Nearly all the American men captured in battle have been repatriated...." The women should be "repatriated" in the same manner as the men.
@Ridge The men did not come back with children.
They weren't so naïve that they had no idea what they were doing. They knew ISIS was a war machine determined to set up its Caliphate by killing and subjugating many people, and they knew it was an enemy at war with the US and other countries. "I didn't know" just doesn't cut it.
They must be viewed as traitors to the US, at the very least giving aid and comfort to our enemy. They have encouraged men to fight and kill. (ISIS's main reason for recruiting these women was 'Hey guys, come fight with us and we'll get you some wives', and the women knew it.)
Before we even consider letting them back in, they should be required to tell us everything they know about ISIS; names, tactics, horror stories, war crimes, what motivated them and others (ISIS is still recruiting) - anything that our Intelligence finds useful.
They should be expected to express their regrets publicly and repeatedly, in ways that discourage others from being recruited. They should be expected to apologize to the families and friends of those killed and maimed by ISIS; our people and those of other countries.
If they can convince skeptical Intel. teams they're sincere, then we might consider letting them come back. I'm not saying guarantee them anything, but only that we might consider it at that point; they still have a lot to make up for and a lot of convincing to do.
"I'm not happy in a refuge camp" just doesn't cut it. They're better off than the people they helped kill.
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She chose of her own free will to leave and join a well known terrorist group.Now that the group is on the verge of collapse and likely to be decimated she suddenly regrets her decision.It only smacks of opportunism and she cannot just like that change her view.What if the group had been successful?.Would she still wish to return? Doubtful.
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No. No, and no. Ms. Muthana's posts document her casual embrace, encouragement, and enthusiastic support of the worst kinds of violence and barbarism. Her child should be allowed to reside with its grandparents, if they are willing. She belongs in prison.
I find it very difficult to feel any sympathy for an individual who could watch beheadings and cheer them on; could witness the violence from a terrorist attack and, cheerleader-like, urge more carnage. She might be mentally ill, perhaps... But she does not deserve re-entry, or forgiveness.
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These women knew what they were getting into before they did it. This is no Patty Hearst kidnapping or brainwashing. These women are clearly Trojan horses.
In theory, I wouldn't take issue with their children coming to the U.S. However, if these women continue to procreate, we may have a steady stream of children who are coming here. This may not be a security issue when the kids are very young, but what about teenagers who might already be indoctrinated? Anyway, lots of complex issues here.
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The younger woman was clearly a highly sheltered girl extremely vulnerable to cultivation by religious fundamentalists, who know well how to appeal to the idealism of the young. The older woman is mentally ill.
While I don't think they are a moral equivalent, we should remember that we not only accept, but CELEBRATE, young men Ms. Muthana's age going off to foreign countries to kill people. Yes, the cause is (much) better, but the bloodlust, the viewing of others as subhuman, the rejection of the standards of civilized society that so many (and the wannabes back home) develop...we are happy to foster these attitudes in our soldiers and look away from the results (at least until they come home and we realize we've made people unfit to live in a peaceful multicultural democracy). I say this not to excuse Ms. Muthana but to point out that she is not so incomprehensible a creature as some seem to think. It is very easy to exploit the idealism and black-and-white worldview of the young.
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Sorry ... I have no sympathy for these women. This isn't just boneheaded decision making. They are idealists who sympathized with our enemies. They have no right to return, nor should they be welcome to. It's sad their kids will have to be raised in third-world conditions, but I'm more concerned about my own kids than theirs, frankly. There's just some decisions in life that are final.
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Sorry but not necessary, practically or morally, and not a good idea.
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I fear that the beginnings of betrayal of our country, the USA, began with religious upbringing within a chosen faith with very rigid determinants of womanhood: an Islamic faith which covers women's heads/hair as puberty begins, and often by garments covering all of their bodies...not a reformist form of Islam which would treat women equally with men, girls with boys. The former Mennonite also led a covering garment existence prior to joining a totally sexist form of the Islamic faith. Read the novel by by Margaret Atwood, or watch the series The Handmaid's Tale, to get an idea of an America thus transformed by militaristic rigidity regarding one's sex...and understand that this already exists in very rigid religious communities of different faiths in our country. I understand the hijab worn by many women as a testament to their "chosen" faith, often along with closefitting jeans and high heels, makeup and jewelry. I believe that Islam is due for a reformation, and it should begin in the West, as an extension of MeToo#, not as an "antidote" to all western values and freedoms. It never surprises me that rigidity breeds a craving for adventure that breeds even more stifling rigidity.
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Unfortunately, they must be refused entrance. When people south of the border cross illegally into this country with their children, many Americans feel that we can't prosecute them because they would have to be separated from their kids. So, we decide to do nothing and give them asylum. This will be the result of allowing these women entry with their children.
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Sorry - I agree with the Brits on this one. Choices have consequences. Nothing in their history shows a change of heart or dawning realization up and until the moment when the caliphate fell apart and they were captured. The tweets, continued marriages, vile pleasure in the horrific violence on innocent people - it was all there until they got to a place where they fell into Syrian custody.
Plus - this quote from the article shows a page from Trump's playbook - pretending to not acknowledge facts: “I’m not interested in bloodshed, and I didn’t know what to believe,” Ms. Polman said. “These are videos on YouTube. What’s real? What’s not real?”
They know what's reall - and if we bring them back we are bringing the seeds of terroristic violence right back with them. They are not at all sorry for what they did - and given a chance - will do it again. But this time - it's Alabama or Canada - not Syria that will feel it. These aren't innocent migrants who happen to be Muslim - these are women who made a choice to endorse and embrace the most violent extremism. Let them stew in juices far away from these shores. They are now - and should be - women without a country.
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"I thought I was making a big sacrifice for the sake of god and I was giving up my family, my home, my comfort, everything I know, everything I loved"Yes that is EXACTLY what you did, now you can just sleep in that bed.
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Ms. Muthana is still an American Citizen. Burning a passport does not legally strip a person of U.S. citizenship. A person must go to a consular office and formally renounce his/her citizenship through the completion of forms and affidavits. Even in cases where people formally renounce their citizenship, the U.S. has allowed them back. In the case of Ms. Muthana, she must face prosecution in the U.S. for joining a terrorist group and for enticing others to do the same.
Let us not make the same mistake we made when we allowed a treasonous American, who had formally renounced his citizenship and consorted with the enemy, back into the U.S. without criminally charging him. The consequences can be disastrous. Remember Lee Harvey Oswald?
1
The tweets of Hoda Muthana while she was living as a wife of an IS terrorist/enemy combatant--willingly and able to enjoy online surfing and "napping" as she notes--showing her video promise to burn her U.S. passport, and then to detail what vicious hate crimes and mass murders she wanted Americans in sympathy with her terrorist regime to carry out against innocent citizens, are abhorrent. She is and was an adult. She only expressed regret when her caliphate paradise turned into a disaster. No more time for tweeting or napping, I guess. Both she and Ms. Polman seemed delighted to join the terrorist group, and only now want to "come home" because their lives are so uncomfortable. Anyone who goes online to urge terrorist acts has no place walking around free in our society. They may be misguided or confused women, but they also could be very dangerous.
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If they are American born, you have no choice but to take them back and prosecute them with the full extent of the law. If they were immigrants and became naturalized citizens, then do like the Brits just did and revoke their citizenship and ship them back to their original country, or leave them in Syria if Syria will have them.
Why should those who fought with, or supported, ISIS, a declared enemy of the United States not suffer the consequences of their decision? If they were old enough to vote they were old enough to be responsible for supporting an enemy. America would be far better off with Central American asylum seekers who want to live the "American Dream" than those who left that opportunity for the Islamic Nightmare". Let them seek asylum in an Islamic Caliphate.
1
The president has demanded Eropean countries take back their defectors to ISIS. Consequently, we too are similarly obligated.
The mothers should be tried under US law. The children, who are innocent US citizens, should be turned over to families or social services.
This is more evidence that religion should be avoided.
I guess having 19 year old twins brings into to focus how immature you are at 19 even though they consider themselves adults. Her having grown up in an isolated bubble is most likely the cause of her decision, as foolish as it was. I remember wanting to rebel against my parents and this was a doozy she selected. As for marrying 3 times, I would ask if she would have been safe over there without a male to protect her? I don't see it as she was so in love with the fighters or the movement, more an act of preservation for herself and her son. How would she provide for her son if she couldn't work? My vote would be to allow them back and letting them face the consequences with the goal being rehabilitation. What good is proving your point? Isn't it better she can speak to the dangers of extremism in any form? This won't be the last battle.
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Even before their contact with ISIS, both of these women showed an attraction to subversive ideology and are a risk to any community. They are essentially prisoners of war and should be treated as such.
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It is interesting how many posts don't consider the disparate treatment between the male FIGHTERS and the females who gave them 'comfort.' I believe these women should be prosecuted and sent to prison. But prison in the US is a lot better than your child and you starving on the street in a hostile land. The US gave the men a break - it is just pure sexual discrimination not to treat the women equally.
1
@Diane Brown There are, according to some internet reports, thousands of children born to these women. Maybe that is responsible for the difference in treatment.
"I can't believe it. I ruined my life. I ruined my future." I wonder if it has dawned on Hoda Muthana that, by publicly applauding the Charlie Hebdo attack and encouraging like atrocities, she has helped to ruin countless other lives and futures of people far more innocent than her.
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