Anyone, did Trump ever ask the Mexican president if Mexico was willing to pay for that wall between the U.S. and Mexico?
Or did Trump just assume he could force Mexico to do so?
To me, this whole thing long ago turned into political posturing.
Over what? 55 miles of border fencing/wall and some beds? While Americans suffer under shutdowns? Childish politicians don't want a comprehensive overhaul of immigration law, they just want to get their candy: Re-elected.
4
Even the GOP in Congress no longer support Trump's wall.
Trump is flailing, DESPERATELY trying to pacify his dwindling base...
1
There is so much pure posturing. We already have 654 miles of wall or fencing on the boarder. Why was it a good idea during previous administrations?
I have no idea if we should or should not have a wall. I don't live on the boarder. I do know that I hear many people criticizing the wall who live in no outlet communities, gated communities, buildings with guards and vigilant door men. and fences and walls around their home with gates.
It is also difficult take seriously the comments of public officials and private businessmen who believe that they need to be protected from the public by armed security guards. I know this is different, but maybe we need to be more cognizant of the realities of diverse corners and center of our county. This should not be used as a weapon in a partisan political fight for power.
1
So then, if democrats like their legislator's faces then they can let them keep their faces by approving the president's wall $1B+ at a time...which is btw why American voters elected Donald Trump.
Except the deal doesn’t include a wall, not at all.
@Richard Fleishman
Imagine it's, say, 1850.
It is a sad day when Americans can't agree that the integrity of our economy is not a priority. This is not an issue of racism or hatred or fear of black people; it is simply a fact that there are rules regarding the owning, maintaining, and freeing of slaves, and if you choose not to follow them and escape from your master illegally, you are breaking the law.
You see how pointing at the law and saying, "It's the law!" is not an appropriate answer?
@Tiago Correia You wouldn't compare the Holocaust to illegal immigration would you? So stop comparing slavery to illegal immigration. It's an offensive facile analogy.
Slaves were brought to America against their will. Their children were also enslaved. They couldn't go back home. They couldn't have documents translated to Akan or Igbo. In fact reading was illegal for them. They had absolutely no rights a white man or woman needed to respect. None.
Illegal immigrants CHOSE to come to America. No one is stopping them from leaving. Far from being robbed of their culture and language, many insist that we take up their culture. The only reason they even have the protections that they do is because of the struggle and sacrifices of ADOS.
Find a better analogy than slavery.
4
ICE has turned into the SS Secret Police. They weren't satisfied with the numbers of actual criminal immigrants they were getting. So they've started preying on regular working people. People who don't officially have papers but are contributing to society and paying taxes and many doing many menial jobs that NO American wants to do anyway. So now the SS numbers "look" good but they want to complain about not having enough room to house these disadvantaged people? It's not bad enough the SS is taking their kids and losing them in the system, but they still have to feed and clothe the parents? Trump and his SS now have their boogeyman. How long before he decides to start building "showers" like his family's countrymen in Germany?
@Tom Jones
The meager taxes supposedly paid by illegal aliens do not begin to cover the costs for taxpayer bennies soaked up by them and their families for schools, hospitals, roads, sewers, police and fire protection, parks and other government services and infrastructure.
2
Why do Americans not want do these jobs?
1
@fFinbar Menial jobs are messy and do not pay as much as unemployment insurance.
1
The wall was not a campaign promise. It was a catch phrase that the times showed was a device to keep trump on message. Please don’t forget that the expenditure is required because some hassled campaign strategist had to keep his client from going off on an even more ridiculous tangent.
3
Having negotiated hundreds of high-dollar deals I will say that Pelosi is an extremely weak "negotiator". Trump won this without trying because the Democrats gave him far more than he would have settled for.
Here's how it should have been done:
I'd offer Trump $175,000 in exchange for about ten thousand things that would have destroyed the Republicans. Trump would give them all up because they'd not cost him anything. The Republicans would be the ones paying, not him. In his mind they'd be free.
Trump would sell the $175K to his Trumpsters as a huge win; he's a genius at that. He'd use a combination of inflated lies and blame shifting - and the mush-brained Trumpsters would cheer their Great Dealmaker.
Here's the win-win-win-win:
If he bites, we win. If he walks, we win even more. If he walks he can Shutdown, or not.
No Shutdown with no Deal means he loses Trumpster support. If he Shuts-down, he also loses Trumpster support just like last time. That's a third win-win for us.
Then, after watching his ratings fall, his Reopen is a cave; 4th win-win for us.
In every case we win and he loses. So much winning we'll get tired of winning.
The above should be obvious. Trump is transparent as the world's worst negotiator and his history shows it.
Pelosi should have taken the shirt off his back such that he'd come back to hand over his pants. That she did not proves she's the world's second worst negotiator.
We have a bunch of amateurs in charge.
2
I take it that you have considerable experience as a negotiator. Would it have included knowing that Pelosi wasn’t on this team?
@Robert
She was behind the team - and in continual minute to minute communication - so she could present tactical advice. The Japanese do this but it's a common methodology.
1
BEDS? The division & fighting is over beds? Is it over a wall?
How about the millions of our own people who will go hungry because the budget hasn't been passed? No food stamps in March? Virtually 110 million people rely on Snap every month. The government took away our jobs with NAFTA. They food pantries will not be able to handle the volume. Shame Shame!
It's no different than the third world countries whose government starved their people for population control.
Government officials who were elected by us to do your job: Fighting is not in your job description. If I were your boss, you don't get paid for fighting in the schoolyard instead of doing your job. In other words, you're fired. It is time for term limits.
If the government shutdown does not end and these people go without eating There Will Be innocent Blood shed.
4
Trump believes in socialism so much that he loves Putin. He admires Putin and other socialistic autocratic leaders.
@Lee Ah, so that explains the wall.
I, for one, am very tired of points of view which focus on outcomes as "winning" or "losing", either/or being the focus. Instead I am energized by points of views which focus on outcomes as representing compromises between rational adults who attempt to find middle ground, both/and being the focus. This proposal seems to represent the later resolution and gives me some hope for this country.
4
If individual-1 can't get Mexico (the promise after all), or the US taxpayer to pay for his phallic symbol, maybe he could get a few Russian oligarchs to cough up the dough. After all, it is in Putin's interest to keep the US in a state of constant turmoil, and to have individual-1 continue to carry out Putin's agenda. Maybe Putin could use the NRA as a conduit for the money, kind of like what happened in the 2016 election cycle.
4
This all has to do with one single thing. No matter what, the GOP wants no people of color coming into this country because to them, they will be Democratic voters who could potentially cause them to lose elections. And as for the 25 billion Don could have had vs. the 1.3 billion he's getting in wall funding? Oh yes, he knows all about the 'art of the deal' alright. Just so happens I have some ocean front property in Arizona that I'd like to sell to him, too.
1
Almost correct. Republicans do not anyone, white, black or brown to come into the US illegally or to overstay their VISAS. Why are you in favor of illegal entry and illegal overstaying?
2
President Trump is starting to sound like the Jimmy Stewart character, Elwood P. Dowd, who had an invisible friend named Harvey the Rabbit. Trump talks about "finishing" a wall that has not yet begun. Maybe if we all start admiring the non-existent, beautiful new wall, he'll believe it has been built and will stop talking about it.
2
the debate seems generally to be how cruel can we be to these migrants and I would suggest that for the next two years, we will be very cruel because of this Administration and I can only hope that in the future this changes.
Just to put the "only a fraction" into perspective, $1.375 billion is actually almost 25% of the demanded $5.7 billion. That's not such an insignificant amount as the story leads one to believe.
2
I truly hope and Coulter does not let this happened, she needs to direct the president to get that wall up.
1
Just saw on CNN:
“I don’t think we’ll have a shutdown.” —Trump
Scoreboard:
TRUMP: 0
PELOSI: 2
Trump’s full display of cowardice must be very painful to the MAGA crowd to see.
1
This is a lousy decision that will do nothing to keep Americans safe and will allow thousands of illegals to be released into the country, never to be heard from again until they commit other crimes.
We have a huge problem at our southern border that Dems and Rinos have decided to ignore after voting for money for walls in 2006 and 2013.
Once people from these countries hear about the pathetic decision, even more of them will swarm our southern border. 50,000 people per month? That’s enough to replace everyone in my small California city.
4
Even if the wall was built 'he' still has reneged on his campaign promise because over and over again Mexico was to pay for it. As usual the narrative has been altered by the usual suspects. How many would support the wall if Donald had said we're going to build his great beautiful wall and YOU are going to pay for it.
3
@James Mc Carten
Reneged on this promise? At least he's consistent. Make America Guess Again.
@James Mc Carten Why isn't El Chapo's family paying?
55 miles for fencing? Why? How was this number developed?
This is idiocy for the sake of idiocy. There is no empirical basis for putting up any more fence. As the El Paso example shows, fencing does not change crime or illegal immigration.
I advise Congress not to vote for any more fence. Period. Why pay for something that does nothing? I do not endorse paying for symbolism.
1
A dem from NC, who was part of the negotiation committee, stated in an interview on MSNBC last night that the $1.375B included in this "deal in principle" is LESS than the funding that was allocated for these purposes -- had a simple continuing resolution been passed. I'm not seeing that reported, is it incorrect? He was very concise in stating the case. If he is correct, the statement changes the tone of the negotiation as reported...
2
If Pres. Trump wants, "Nancy neutered me so much now I can only tweet" to be his legacy for the rest of his life; he should sign this bill.
Speaker Pelosi would do no such thing. I know for a fact that she’s not good with tweezers.
1
@Robert
While the president is adding somethings to this proposal, how about a demand to Congress to pass legislation that would restrict asylum-seekers to designated ports-of-entry (for the safety of all involved), and an immediate return of all those who try to cross our borders elsewhere to the nearest port-of-entry facility for further asylum processing in Mexico, and agree to birthright citizenship reform restricting the offspring born here of alien parents from becoming U.S. citizens at birth?
3
In other words, you want us to ignore current law and rewrite the Constitution to suit you.
Lesee...no.
55 mils of new wall? This is not going to play well with the base. Not even Trump, "the master negotiator", is going to be able to sell this as a win to the base, Limbaugh, or Coulter.
I have a bad feeling this ain't over yet. By a long shot.
So lemme see... The "compromise" gives republicans marginally less than what had already been agreed to by democrats two months and a shutdown ago. If Trump signs this it will be a total and complete capitulation. The "gutless president in a borderless country" comment will be amended to a "gutless and lousy negotiator president in a borderless country". His only plausible path forward is to veto a bill and get his veto overriden. He can then freely pander to his base without loosing face, and try to declare emergency to show toughness.
1
If the Democrats back this deal they basically lost a battle they had already won. After losing public support over the shut down Trump can now claim the wall is being built anyway with more to follow.
4
So it looks like Dems would eventually cave in and give lots of money to Trump for his wall. If that is the case I am seriously thinking of voting for Trump in 2020. Because what's the point in voting Dems anyway?
1
“We’re building the wall anyway,” he told the crowd...
Because, who needs that silly "democracy" and "congress" or "courts" business.
Wake up people.
4
These immigrants come to the U.S. primarily to escape problems in their native countries (Mexico, Belize, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Costa Rica, and Panama) which includes a stagnant economy, high levels of crime, political corruption and widespread drug use. There is a legal way to request a green card to enter the U.S., however unlawful mobs entry is not allowed. Shame and disgrace of all these central American countries and their governments who fail to feed their people, to give them medical care, good housing, and jobs. These central American countries and their governments are the ones at fault.
Sorry that your country does not love you anymore. To find true love you need to find and walk on God’s Holy road which will one day open the gate to His Kingdom in Heaven. The road you are currently walking is man made and will only bring you tears and despair, darkness and regrets.
2
Sean Hannity called the deal "garbage" on his program last evening. By this evening, Trump will be on the same page and it's back to the drawing board and the Trump's manufactured crisis.
1
What about using this amount of money to actually help these countries to solve their problems and help other human beings instead of creating more separation and hatred? A different solution is possible.
10
Why do Democrats want fewer detention beds. Maybe detention is the wrong word - 'refugee allocated beds?' We know most are not refugees, so need at least the number of beds we have now. The Dems have, rightfully, been upset when their are not enough beds or the number of asylum seekers exceed their ability to house them. Isn't this what we want - adequate housing while they wait on the request? And, don't we want them kept with their parents (if they are their parents) vs. sending them into the country to 'stay with a family member or friend somewhere?'
1
@Ma
ICE rounds up people who are not “bad hombres” but have roots in their communities. These people often have traffic violations or have overstayed their visa, but they are not violent felons. They are taking up beds that, as you say, could be used for families seeking asylum at the border. The Dems want the administration to tell ICE they have to be more discriminating about who they detain in the interior of our country. A side benefit would be more beds at the border.
1
@Wendy Holtzman
It does not matter one bit whether they are violent felons.
They are not authorized to be here.
We do not need them.
We have plenty of people here already.
We also allow a million or so to come here every year legally if they meet our standards for skills we need.
We do not need more.
And we do not need ones who do not meet our standards.
Our standards require much more than simply not being violent felons.
1
He'll sign the bill. The Dems have given Trump enough for him to declare a 'win", Fox will agree, and his base is too stupid to know the difference. You can see the change already "Finish the Wall" is now the mantra -- his next rallies will be full of how many miles of border he's 'secured'.
11
@Annie
DId Trump bray that Mexico would be paying last night at his thinly disguised campaign rally?
More important.....Did Hannity approve?
1
There continues to be a difference between reporting the news ("all the news that's fit to print") and commenting upon it. The Times has fallen into the trap set by Trump of becoming one of the partisans in a struggle to which it should be a neutral observer. I understand that this temptation is great in an age when "fake news" is used to justify everything, but it is-as I say-a trap into which you have fallen.
1] The news is that "a tentative deal was reached." The headline "Without Full Wall Funding" is a gratuitous slap at one side.
2) The news is that "congressional negotiators agreed in principle...."The lead paragraph includes "far less than what President Trump had demanded."
3) The news is that "the agreement would allow for 55 miles..." The emphasis on the fact that "That is a fraction of the more than 200 miles of steel-and-concrete wall that Mr. Trump demanded" is-while true-also a gratuitous slap.
Donald Trump's behavior is execrable. The New York Times, having fallen into his trap, is regrettable. Your op-ed people can do what they wish, but the so-called news pages should rise above this.
5
My definition of hopeless. A guy that looks like a walking blocked coronary, stopped at a red light in a old truck, that is about to die, maybe just a little before the driver. The rear bumper sticker reads “ Trump Pence Make America Great Again.” Fourty per cent of those folks around. P.T. Barnum was correct. There is a sucker born every minute.
5
What the heck, we have 50,000 people detained. Sounds like what the Nazis did to the Jews, homosexual, gypsies and blacks. However the Nazis killed those people, we are killing them slowly and separating families from their kids and spouses. There is something wrong with our government and Donald Trump the mastermind of all this hate. Let us not forget that other than Native Americans all of us came from immigrant relatives. A very sad time for our country.
8
Even Native Americans came through Siberia to North and (later, as they migrated) South America over a land-bridge about 40K years (IIRC).
@Dr. B
They can leave the detention facilities any time they want -- outside the USA.
They are not authorized to be inside the USA.
It is our right to decide whether they are authorized to be here.
It is not their right to decide that.
If you cannot manage to grasp that,
then you are for open borders.
And you better get yourself ready for hundreds of millions of the world's seven billion to come here.
2
@Dr. B
They can leave the detention facilities any time they want -- outside the USA.
They are not authorized to be inside the USA.
It is our right to decide whether they are authorized to be here.
It is not their right to decide that.
If you cannot manage to grasp that,
then you are for open borders.
And you better get yourself ready for hundreds of millions of the world's seven billion to come here.
Your precious Berkeley will turn into a giant jam-packed arena.
Either way, the subject of completely negative environmental effects isn't being faced, talked about, mitigated. Damn the torpedoes, "we" don't care. They never really did. Migration routes? Screw 'em.
Like the Monarch Butterfly Sanctuary, 70% of which is being destroyed for this.
The more we destroy the environment, the more we destroy us.
Wonderful.
8
That man should not receive ANY press, yet here he is, with a newsworthy quote of propaganda-proportions that the Liberal media is all too happy to repeat. And you wonder why Americans are so clueless and uninformed? All you feed them is this garbage.
Media assuming Republicans govern in good faith, is the reason why Americans think D or R is all the same. Media is complicit in ruining our democracy.
1
OMG! Is this all poor Donnie Trump is getting after listening to Ann Coulter and Rush, and rejecting the original deal??? How sad!
5
By all means, pay for more detention facilities to be built — in Mexico on their southern border
Outrageous.
Is there nothing better to spend $1.375 billion of government on than some bollards that will stop no one and achieve nothing? Maybe food for hungry children?
Democrats, you just love to pull out a way to lose, don't you? Trump got creamed in the first shutdown, he's terrified of a second one, all you have to do is say "still a stupid idea"and you win.
Obviously the real wrath is reserved for Trump's narcissistic lunacy, but the Democrats just agreed to waste a whole lot of taxpayer money to appease his narcissism.
An ugly day.
3
So what happens when Trump vetoes this because he's arrogant, stupid, and has absolutely no government experience, training or understanding?
3
Congress should override his veto. It's that simple and constitutional.
Make my day, shutdown the government.
You will be given the bum's rush out of town so fast that …. we will only see an orange streak...
4
Trump is claiming dictatorial powers. Democrats should not be enabling this tyrant. Vote against the racist wall. All of you. Or we will vote you out of office.
1
Wouldn't it be nice if Congress would do their job? If the president decides to veto, wouldn't it be great for McConnell to let him know Congress has the votes to override this veto? Then let's get on with governing the country instead of this sham kabuki that's been playing out over the last few months at the expense of government workers, government contractors and all who rely on a stable immigration policy?
3
Republicans - Do not repeat the mistake of shutting down government operations. Either agree to a compromise or separate general federal government funding from border security funding. Border security is the issue, not the wall. A wall is only a means, not an end in itself,
Democrats - Provide the funding needed to protect our borders from illegal entry. Provide the means to enforce the immigration laws enacted by past Congresses. If that means providing more detention facilities, make it happen. If it means adding barriers in vulnerable places, make that happen too. By their unaccountable intransigence, Democratic politicians are sending a clear message that they don't want to prevent illegal immigration.
2
In reference to Senator McConnell's remark about "criminal aliens," the Senator and others apparently do not understand the quirks of immigration law. In recent years, a majority of the persons who become undocumented immigrants reportedly do so by overstaying their visas. These persons cannot properly be called "criminal aliens" because being present in the United States without proper documentation is a civil, not criminal offense (although the penalties for this civil offense include deportation). Crossing the border to enter the United States at other than an official port of entry is a criminal offense (a misdemeanor), and attempting illegal entry after previously being deported is a felony criminal offense.
8
If Trump won't sign, aren't there enough Senate votes to override a veto?
2
Well, since Trump has already told us he has built the wall, what is the problem? His followers will believe anything he says. So, just agree with him that he has built the wall. Crisis averted.
4
@Joe We could just get somebody in a hard hat to tell Trump his crew just finished building the wall, and he'd probably believe that and immediately tweet it.
Trump’s threat to divert other monies is heinous, childish and unconstitutional. Nevertheless, Congress could insert a provision in its bill prohibiting that, and pass it by veto-proof majority.
What is really crazy is that even Trump’s full $5.7 billion would build only 10-20% of his Wall. Is he going to threaten to continue to divert hurricane, etc. relief funds until he gets there?
I’d rather just beat him in 2020 than see government obsessed with impeachment 2019-20, but this kind of behavior by a President renders our governance unworkable.
4
@Mike G It would not be proper to avoid removing him while he is in office in favor of allowing him to continue and campaign for another term, particularly since so many of his campaign officials have turned out to be traitors to our country.
Couldn't we just build a pyrite statue of Trump and put outside Mall of America for a fraction of the price? It would achieve everything that this achieves... probably more...
4
Pelosi owns Trump. He'll sign whatever Congress puts in front of him. It's comical, really.
3
I can't believe we are giving Trump 55 miles of hiss wall-fence without reducing number of beds for ICE. A wall or fence is not needed, immoral, ineffective, expensive and evidence of being a bad neighbor. We had Trump cornered and yet we gave him that?
2
Republican trumpists believe The Con Man in Chief because most republican members enabler the con man . Mitch McConnell's main goal is to hide (remember the shutdown, Where's Mitch ?) and not to contradict Donald's lies. Mitch's leadership is based on providing his constituents as little truth as possible so that the con man in chief can lie and lie and lie. It is simply unbelievable how the Senate republicans rollover for this lunatic criminal residing in our White House. Senate Politburo Majority leader and his gang of enablers are destroying are country, their slogan is "party before country".
3
The headline is misleading: the agreement clearly contemplates funding for a new wall. The Democrats bring Trump into submisison but capitulated.
1
So...we are gonna spend 1.375 billion dollars on 55 miles of "fencing"? You have got to be kidding me. I'll do it for 800 million. And as a bonus, I will personally take the sledgehammer to the 17% of migrant detention beds that we are getting rid of. Now come on, that's a deal. For once in my life I'm with Sean Hannity, this is "a garbage compromise."
1
Trump is not going to be buffaloed into signing a bad bill that only gives him about 25% of what he wants...get ready for 4 more weeks of shutdown...thanks to the stubborn Pelosi & Schumer...and the rest of the dems...
2
Cost of the "fence": $4,735 per foot.
2
You know, we have a successful business man who says he's
worth billions of dollars. He wants this wall pretty badly. He would like to have it be a great monument that he is going to build. The Great Wall of Trump. Yeah, so he brags how rich he is; he brow beat's Forbes to be included in the list of 400; think this could be his great legacy.
So let's let our big shot billionaire president pay for the wall.
2
While I appreciate the NYTimes giving the details of the agreement, does it matter what the House and Senate worked for?
I ask this because the President and his administration have increasingly taken the 'tactic' of simply ignoring Congressional action. The recent example being ignoring a request for fact finding and suggestions for action regarding the killing of Jamal Kashhoggi. The deadline was this past Friday and the WH could have cared less.
Despite the hard work of the negotiating committee members, Trump will do as he pleases. That is a dangerous and 'unprecedented' grab for executive power especially when money allocation and use are concerned. The POTUS does not and should not have unilateral and singular say over use of taxpayer dollars.
That the GOP Senate will not uphold it's duty to serve only emboldens Trump to increasingly ignore his mandate from Congress.
2
I think Mr President Trump is not at all worthy of accepting the compromise proposal. Because country security is more important than shut the goverment down. Mr. Trump is a fair man with his word. I believe he will stick to what he has promised; for 5.7 billion dollars.
1
My health costs are going up, up, up along with my health insurance benefits getting diluted more and more. Mr President build a wall around these costs! Or, do you care? And if you say that you do, can I trust you? And, frankly I could ask the same of the Democratic leadership. I still hear noise without substance. Now, with this void in change will it lead to to a repeat of a failed McGovern presidential nomination? Do not let this be a repeat of 1972!
1
What strikes me in these articles and comments about this crisis is that many have forgotten the humanity of those seeking asylum. They are people who are running from danger and seeking a better life.
1
@Zoned
Then how about a smaller version of Lady Liberty at intervals along the wall depicting her holding out the torch and pointing one finger toward the nearest Customs and Border Protection entry.
The reason the deal is described as "tentative" is because Rush, Ann, Laura and Sean haven't come on the air yet.
3
Ann Coulter has yet to sign off this thing, so a little patience.
There is always a chance that she would go for a veto—sending Trump crying into a corner and demanding three scoops of ice cream as a consolation.
2
It is very disappointing that there is not a DACA compromise in the agreement, and that the article doesn’t even mention DACA.
2
Do members of Congress know what the U.S. Code is? Have they read it, or even parts of it? Read this:
10 U.S. Code § 284 - Support for counterdrug activities and activities to counter transnational organized crime
(7) Construction of roads and fences and installation of lighting to block drug smuggling corridors across international boundaries of the United States.
1
Mr. McCarthy is keeping up the tradition of never let them see you sweat. Too late, there is a reason Paul Ryan left and McCarthy can't pull it off, he has the lies down pat but just can't deliver them.
Surely he can hire someone to take a few fake pictures of the wall to spread to his base, which thrives on lies. That way he can agree to the compromise and make himself feel that he's "won" something. His supporters are immune to the facts, anyway.
Ok. And Trump will syphon the rest from emergency funds. Build the wall, Trump.
1
The whole "wall" thing is a metaphor for what happens when separation of powers is no longer respected. It is ludicrous to shut down or even threaten to shut down the government in order to give a president what he or she wants. Yes, I recognize that no one thought that we would have a president whose priority is to put Hannity, Coulter and Limbaugh's "ideas" above the well-being of all others. But that is the situation we are in thanks to an inability (or reluctance) to prepare for the worst. Lawmakers should make it their highest priority to craft legislation aimed to stop a president of any party from ever again forcing a shut down.
1
Once this is done I hope Tramp will be as strong campaigning for the long promised best cheapest healthcare, infrastructure improvement, cheaper drugs, and reducing the deficit, but I doubt it.
1
This sounds very similar to the deal presented to Trump before the previous shutdown. Will he sign the bill? If he doesn't, will Congress vote to override his veto?
7
Bravo. Our legislators are finally doing what we pay them do, which is to make agreements. It is not the job of legislators to take hard and fast, unmovable positions. It is their job to bring conflicting positions into confrontation and, through good faith bargaining, come to a consensus. No one says this job is easy, but that is why we the voters elect our legislators.
18
@Joseph
A Gerrymandered and Electoral Colleged Government, with stolen Supreme Court seats is not what "We The People" elected or wanted.
It is the republican way. Look at how far the US has fallen from grace as republicans loot our nation with endless wars while tax gutting our treasury wholesale, begrudgingly allowing u to scrounge for what crumbs may sustain us.
We once had honor around the globe.
The world now sees the hideous face and hears the sickening voice of an imbecile who lost the election to Mrs Clinton by nearly 3,000,000 ballots.
Last November gave us hope. The winds of change are stirring in America.
2
Assuming the deal goes through, I want to compare it to the compromise that was negotiated and accepted by almost all except Limbaugh and Coulter in December.
Right now, Mr. McCarthy is pointing out how the Democrats caved. That's a good sign. It's the loser that starts talking, pointing out what a great deal they got.
13
@kamikrazee
Celtic individualism...refreshing, isn't it?
When Democrats dismantle the existing wall and floodlights separating El Paso from Ciudad Juarez to make a point things should get interesting.
U.S. State Department advisory:
"Exercise increased caution in Mexico due to crime. Some areas have increased risk.
Violent crime, such as homicide, kidnapping, carjacking, and robbery, is widespread.
The U.S. government has limited ability to provide emergency services to U.S. citizens in many areas of Mexico as travel by U.S. government employees to these areas is prohibited or significantly restricted.
U.S. government employees may not travel between cities after dark, may not hail taxis on the street, and must rely on dispatched vehicles, including from app-based services like Uber, or those from regulated taxi stands. U.S. government employees may not drive from the U.S.-Mexico border to or from the interior parts of Mexico with the exception of daytime travel within Baja California, and between Nogales and Hermosillo on Mexican Federal Highway 15D.
Do not travel to:
Colima state due to crime.
Guerrero state due to crime.
Michoacán state due to crime.
Sinaloa state due to crime.
Tamaulipas state due to crime."
4
Sounds like the same risk in most American cities.
@God, You better stay home then, I think they are looking for you. Just returned from the Mayan Riviera and it was terribly beautiful and fun .
3
I'm waiting for the Senate, in particular, to sit up and say that they are not going to be forced into passing legislation based on lies and the whims of a President who puts our country last. Impeachment is not the answer. Governing according to the country's needs is what we should be doing. Surely there are enough things Congress can agree upon by a 2/3rds vote?
11
Never Interfere With an Enemy While He’s in the Process of Destroying Himself-Napoleon Bonaparte.
There the Democrats go again. Whenever Republicans really mess up, there the Dems. are to help them out of their trouble and hand them another victory.
Not one Penny, that is all they had to keep repeating and no way Trump even gets the nomination much less re-election. But no there they go again. They just handed Trump 4 More Years. Maybe they don't really want to win?
5
@Rick While I would love to say "Not one penny," we all know that's not the way politics works. The optics of Dems refusing to negotiate at all, would at some point, come back to bite them in the behind. At some point, the repubs would begin appear to be the 'sympathetic' party, and that's NOT the appearance we want them to achieve. It's pretty clear that what Gottmann (relationship scientist) once said seems to apply here: "We can be right, or we can be happy," (or something to that effect).
2
@Rick united we stand divided we fall. Why must it be about Republicans versus Democrats? Let's unify and work as one for the good of the country.
1
@Rick
Exactly!
The weak-kneed Democrats caved, as always. (Why is that?)
No deal. Bring on the Shutdown, then sit back and watch Trump's support erode as he tears his hair out.
That's what happened last time and it's the only thing that's shaken Trumpster support, but the Democratic leadership is weak. That's why even a Democrat doesn't want to vote for a Democrat - they're afraid to use power.
Or so it seems, but it's much worse than that if you see clearly what's been happening.
The Democratic leadership oldsters (average age 72) are secret Republicans, feeding from the same corporate payroll as their Republicans colleagues.
Get rid of them all and start with Pelosi. She's lost five of seven elections and over 1,000 national seats also lost to Republicans since 2003. That's not winning!
Why is she still in?
Because she's made sure there's no bench depth, and because she raised $83,000,000 in donations for the 2018 election cycle.
Who from, and how? All from corporations - in exchange for favors. Every one of those dollars comes with a corporate favor attached. Pelosi sells favors!
She's as anti-democracy and anti-People as the Republicans. Don't be fooled by the false flag that Republicans hate her - she's really the Republicans best friend. They couldn't do it without her.
Can't get rid of the Republicans without first dumping the entire snake-in-the-grass Democratic leadership.
And any Democrat that likes Pelosi is a Republican.
Enough already! I am so sick of this. The laws need to be changed so that the president (especially one like this one) cannot hold the country hostage. He has no clue how government works and it is not designed to work on the whims of one person regardless of his title. Meanwhile while he's tweeting and posturing nothing else is getting done in the country. I certainly wouldn't approve handing him 5.7 billion dollars for his stupid wall but something has got to give already. This nonsense has been going on far too long.
19
In El Paso last night, as justification for his wall, Trump said "Safety is every AMERICAN's birthright". On this basis, he seeks to deny asylum to people fleeing persecution, in contravention of international law.
He failed to say that it is every HUMAN BEING's birthright too, enshrined in the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights since 1948.
Article 3 says: "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person." Article 2 makes clear that "no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs."
Trump and the the notional Christians who support him have not explained how the morality of 'America First' squares with the Universal Declaration or the teachings of Jesus.
16
@tardx That doesn't mean that everyone on the planet gets to move to the United States. Anyone who is reading that into it is badly missing the point.
And there is a separation between church and state. It's funny how people who condemn Christians for picking and choosing moral precepts turn around and do the exact same thing when it's convenient.
As Jesus said “Am I not free to do as I wish with that which is mine”?
@Richard Winchester
Casting Trump as Jesus is beyond parody! "Is thine eye evil, because I am good?"
There appears to be so much hooting and hollering one way or another on this tentative deal.
It's politics. It's a compromise.
You didn't get everything, you didn't get nothing. At least something is happening. This should be considered normal.
7
"A federal appeals court ruled Monday that the Trump administration has the power to waive environmental laws in order to speed up border wall construction, dealing a major blow to the president’s opponents."
Not over yet folks.
2
It upsets me that the Democrats caved so easily. My only guess is they’re hoping trump vetoes this so they can then say, “see, we tried compromising.” But that in and of itself shows just how weak the party is.
We should be as hardlined on this issue as he is. No wall money. Ever. Let him shut the government down and declare a national emergency and then let the republicans explain why they still support him.
I’m extremely disappointed with this bit of legislation, as it proves what has been proven so often in the last decade. Dems don’t or can’t stand up to republican bully tactics. What a shame.
4
Did Ann Coulter sign off on it?
11
@SridharC It's not going to matter. She's been barred from the royal presence (unfriended) ever since she called Trump a wimp, three weeks ago.
1
$1.375 billion dollars, 55 miles. That's $4734/foot, for a fence, not a wall.......
5
Someone’s going to get rich building this wall. There’s no way it should cost more than $1000/ft, including design and land acquisition cost. Maybe Whitaker’s company can build it.
2
100% of illegal aliens should be deported, regardless of their age when they arrived or length of stay in the US. Similarly, 100% of employers should be using eVerify with crippling fines for those who don’t. Watch illegal immigration drop to zero.
8
@QED If you want higher deportation levels, then you also need to support a massive expansion in the number of immigration judges. That's where the money should be going, not to a wall.
2
@QED
Exactly WHO do you think is picking YOUR produce to bring to market?!!
2
it would not be much of a decline since illegal immigration, especially of the sneaking over the border type, is already at an all time low. like most everything else, Trump frames things to suit his goals: when refugees present themselves at our borders, seeking asylum, Trump frames it as "illegal" immigration. according to news reports, more people just overstay their visas, or illegally work on study or visit visas, than sneak over the order. here in CA, the agricultural sector is now hurting for workers. this whole thing is a made up sham by the President and his supporters to rile his base and furher divide our nation. it is about the same as Hitler's use of the Sudatenland to grab more dicatorial power. a much better use of Congressionak time woud be to actually come up with and pass an updated, realistic immigration law.
2
Since when does Sean Hannity's opinion deserve a mention in the news? He is not in government. Are the other newscaster's being mentioned for their opinions. This just incites Trump to save face since he does what makes him look good. Hannity plays Trump like a fiddle and the NYT just provided the orchestra.
19
Here is the best part of it all - Trump and his anti-immigrant staff just a year or so ago could have had $25 Bn for the wall, if not for all the other nasty things they also wanted in their bill, and today, they are looking at $1.375Bn a 95% reduction of what they could have had and absolutely none of the other nasty things they wanted. This is the master negotiator at his finest.
Based on this, just imagine what Xi Jinping is going to do to Trump and the US in the China-US trade deal to come, let alone what that psychopath North Korean dictator will do to Trump.
13
Where is the line on the accounting sheets that adds the cash from Mexico? They are paying for the wall, right?
16
Rather than a concrete wall, how about a continuous row of twenty foot high steel frame bunk beds along the border?
America has become like the mansion with a mouse. The cute invasive rodent and what harm it can do is the least problem, it's the fastidiously proud owner who'll burn down the whole thing first to solve the problem of the mouse finding a way in rather than admitting that even he is unable to outsmart the mouse and keep it out by any other way short of.
3
It's time to cut the cord and move to impeach. Trump's deal with Putin to call off the nuclear treaty certainly advances Russia's interests at our peril. The Senate continues to resist all reason because we've got a truly bad apple in charge there, too, whose loyalties are arguably tied to other than US interests at this point. We need to stop chattering about the 2020 elections and get this goon out of the White House first.
13
The slow-moving train wreck continues along the track while the rest of us watch with our mouths agape.
Trump lost. He just can't call it a loss or he'll never accept it and move on.
His rabid base don't care about the government being funded - they elected Trump to thumb the eye of "guvment". Sad considering Trump supporters seemed disproportionately affected by the shutdown...
4
@Nicky
Your comments rate a NYT pick!
1
@Nick Unfortunately, the term "Trump supporter" means people who support(ed) Trump BUT not the other way around.
Build the wall is the Apprentice WH’s failing catchphrase. Schwarzenegger had better ratings.
3
The article frames the compromise as "a fraction" of what what Trump demanded. Given that Pelosi demanded zero funding for the wall, why not frame the compromise as "democrats cave on funding for wall"?
5
@Michael
Probably because this is even less than offered in the previous legislation Trump refused to sign.
So after all this, the master negotiator got less than he asked for, and less than he was offered previously.
I'm beginning to understand how he managed to bankrupt a casino.
Hopefully the Congress is able to override any veto by Trump. We shall see. Trump would let the country sink into anarchy if they don’t stop him.
5
How is it that nowhere in this article is there any mention of the campaign pledge that Mexico would pay for the wall. It was apparent right from the start that this was a ridiculous lie, but lies should not be countenanced and forgotten just because most of the population knows they are untrue. Until the reality show nature of this presidency is constantly called our for what it is, and every lie is labeled a lie in every article which relates to the subject of the original deception, the demagogue in chief wins. And please, no more polite euphemisms. Not untruths, exaggerations or misrepresentations - lies, plain and simple.
11
"White House officials did not respond to requests for comment about the terms of the agreement, and the president’s conservative allies on Monday night were already denouncing the deal."
If Trump throws another tantrum and shuts down the government again, we know where to place the blame (as we did the first time).
Haggling over the number of beds for non-criminal detainees just shows that we need comprehensive immigration reform. A Republican Senate once upon a time passed such a bill, which protected Dreamers and reformed the system. The Republican House rejected it. Let's see if we can move this forward too. We should have a reasonable plan to admit those whose labor and talents we need in this country.
If Trump vetoes such a bill, then he reveals his petulant xenophobia yet again.
2
If Trump is such a deal-making whiz, why doesn't he ask Putin or MBS to donate a few billion for his fantasy project ? He's already neck deep in debt to them.
5
Trump gets 55 miles of new barrier. Expect him to huff and puff and demand more (maybe even shutdown again for a few days - why not - it can't hurt him any worse than the last one). But if Trump can proudly proclaim "finish the wall", then this is a deal he can spin to his supporters as delivering on his promise. It's just a down payment baby.
Pelosi gets no new wall and an improvement from the previous deal. She caved on the number of beds issue but that looks more like a political trap the Republicans took the bait from. She's got plenty of room to throw a dozen Pro V1s into the deal to make Trump happy. She scores another win and officially starts a streak.
Now, is it too insane to ask what the cost of this 55 miles of fence is per immigrant stopped from crossing the border? How, exactly, does this stuff pay for itself?
3
I understand that new news always pushes out old news, but I am still very sorry that the continuing prolonged detention of children has nearly disappeared from front pages everywhere.
11
The 1.75 billion should be enough to build The Wall around the White House to incarcerate Trump et al. until he is escorted of the grounds by U.S. Federal marshals.
8
Why doesn't Trump just stand and the border and declare "mission accomplished!" the way that he did with the Afghan War and the Syria miasma?
If his toadies tell him that he's "solved the problem" and he's doing "great," he'll be happy and move on to the next self-created crisis
3
We have people in Puerto Rico still suffering from the hurricane, we have people in Flint without safe water to drink, we have teachers who have to pay for supplies themselves, we have crumbling roads and bridges, we have children living in cages...and we have a president who wants taxpayers to pay for a great big wall to satisfy his sick ego. And the Dems have agreed to allow this twisted man to have at least part of his ego stoked instead of taking care of things that really need attention. This is so wrong. Giving in even a little bit to a temper tantrum guarantees a further tantrum in the future. There should not be any money for even so much as an inch of Trump's ego wall.
9
Put some sedatives in his happy meals and then tell him what he wants to hear while you present him with the legislation for him to sign.
He doesn't read the bills anyway, and who would even notice that he's high.
3
It is a sad day when Americans can't agree that the integrity of our borders is not a priority. This is not an issue of racism or hatred or fear of brown people, it is simply a fact that there are rules regarding entering this country and if you choose not to follow them and cross the border illegally you are breaking the law. If you don't like where you live either fix the problem or move, legally, somewhere else. I don't have an obligation to take care of every person on earth who is dissatisfied with their government.
28
@Richard Fleishman
Sure, but when you dont allow the legal process to occur for refugees or separate children from their parents, dont expect your talking points of law and order to stand.
39
@Richard Fleishman
We had a fix to the problem five years ago: bipartisan comprehensive immigration reform. That deal was ripped up by John Boehner, with a gun held to his head by the Tea Party Republicans.
You are not taking care of undocumented immigrants. They are working, contributing to our economy, paying taxes, and taking care of themselves.
39
@Richard Fleishman
I agree you do not have an obligation to those illegally here and I agree that a secure boarder is a good idea. However, the least disruptive and expensive path is not to build a wall. The economy of the southwest states relies on illegal immigrants for better or worse, and they are less likely to be criminals than your neighbors. Building a wall will be much more expensive than a thoughtful gradual humanitarian solution to this problem, which would also be less costly to you as a tax payer.
26
I live on the border and could easily cross undetected, but never do as I prefer to pay the $3 and drive as that way I have my car to use.
My simple question is what type of person would avoid legal entry (or asylum declaration) at a point of entry?
3
@Brando Flex
In answer to your question...criminals of all types...just the kind of people the president is trying to stop getting in by a wall...
2
@Brando Flex Assuming your question is sincere - here's an answer. Trump is preventing asylum seekers from crossing at points of entry by enforcing artificial limits, forcing families into dangerous conditions while they wait for weeks or months in the queue. They are preyed on by gangs; they're sleeping out in the open; and they have no money for food or shelter. As a result, many resort to crossing the border outside entry points and surrendering to authorities to request asylum - which is also perfectly legal. Trump would like you to believe it is illegal, but he is lying, as usual.
We could address the problem by increasing the number of processors at the border to process asylum claims instead of tear gassing children, taking them from their parents, and locking them in cages. But Trump prefers to paint these desperate migrants as criminals in order to stoke fear and rile up his base.
1
@Brando Flex
The Dems need to step up coverage on the complete insanity of Trump's stupid 14th century wall.
I have visions of Trump's completed "great big beautiful" $50 BILLION wall being easily decimated with massive tunnels being dug UNDERNEATH his wall, thousands of drones flying drugs OVER the top of his wall, and acid BURNING big holes right through his highly penetrable wall.
"Smoke & Mirrors"
What will Trump do ?
Will he get on board with the late Monday night bipartisan deal from the Legislature ?
Or will he play out his "tiny" hand and move toward a National Emergency ?
Doesn't really matter to Trump so long as he can monopolize the news cycle and keep attention away from the a far bigger nightmare for him, his family, and his brand.
The Mueller and Southern District of New York investigations are dangerously close to "Individual One".
Trump's base and Fox cling to this "Nobody on the Actual Border wants" Wall !
Our security experts fully understand how building a "Medieval" wall has no effect on any of the problems we face with our border security.
While the; "Will he shut down the government again" soap opera rages on . . .
Nothing in the way of Important Governing is happening.
As the next election cycle rapidly approaches -
Nothing has been done to secure our Democratic Election Process.
Nothing has been done for the; "We the People" -
All we really have witnessed is a mass giveaway of our rights, our protections from corporate and financial bullies, and the wealth of America given away to the wealthiest 1%.
As the wall saga continues, America, we're being robbed !
7
@Leonard Dornbush
Will Trump pull the rug out from the GOP again?
Depends on whether there is news of a damaging scandal that Trump needs to deflect the headline news from.
1
I don't see Trump agreeing to this compromise and ending the chaos by signing annual budgets for all the affected agencies. Doing so would make him look weak before his base by giving up and accepting less than he could have gotten last year while congress was under republican control. Getting $1.375 billion , less than 25% of his $5.75 billion he demanded when this all started; "2 bits worth for the Wall". He will either invoke a national emergency for the rest or agree to sign only a portion of the agency budgets and require temporary budgets with others so he can continue this fight for his wall. At this point he has to make it look like he's still fighting for it to keep his base. Remember he said "We're building the wall anyway". No this isn't over yet by a long shot.
3
It doesn't need the Presidents signature. What it needs is a veto override.
11
1.375+1.7 = 3.75 billion! Once again the Democrats demonstrate their lack of having backbone. This deal will impact the environment terribly. It will not solve anything other than waste our tax payers money. Mean while our infrastructure is in dire straits. It will lead to future mismanagement of funds. If the Democrats really want to win in 2020, they need to stand up and define there “real” values. Nancy Pelosi, this does not sit well at all with your fellow constituent.
3
@A.Sousa Your math is a little off: 3.075 billion. Plus this money is only wasted if you are actually opposed to taking steps to make the border more secure.
News flash: we Democrats are not opposed to improving border security, we're opposed to Trump's stupid, medieval wall because it won't be effective at improving border security and it will be a terrible symbol.
I understand that you want us to carry your left-wing water but we ain't interested. That doesn't make us weak, just means we don't agree with you.
As for the impact on the 2020 election, your views are very much a minority in the country and if we catered to them it would truly harm our chances.
So the ultimate deal artist shut down the government for a month, made 800,000 hard working American families thoroughly suffer, dinged the economy, wiped out all last year's gains in everyone's 401k, and lied through it all to get 10-miles less of border fencing (wall) than he would have gotten if he just signed the fudging funding bill in December. Brilliant. Thanks for that Ann, Rush and Sean.
4
"The agreement would allow for 55 miles of new bollard fencing, ... That is a fraction of the more than 200 miles of steel-and-concrete wall that Mr. Trump demanded "
I wonder if Coulter, Limbaugh, Ingraham, Hannity, and Carlson will sign off on this...
I never understood where the $5.7B number came from, since it's not nearly enough to build "a big beautiful wall from sea-to-shining-sea". Do Trump supporters not understand that illegal immigrants, migrants, and "4000 radical terrorists" can just walk around an uncompleted wall? Did Trump ever plan how he'll get another $20B to finish it? Or is he counting on electronic/others measures to secure the remaining 1200 miles? I sense someone thought 20% is a reasonable down payment that Trump can use on "the campaign trail" to tell his supporters he's building the wall - none of those people consider anything past the next Trump rally.
If this is an example of Trump's "deal-making" skills, he showed he doesn't have any - it's like starting construction on a $100M hotel after securing only $20M. Such projects are rarely completed. He'll likely be gone in 2020 (he'd have to win that pesky general election), and the unfinished wall would be known as Trump's Folly. It'd be a fitting symbol for the end of the "Celebrity President" show.
4
@chris87654 There was never a plan. It was just a campaign slogan to help him get elected. Trump cares nothing about anything except himself. Even when being magnificent would cost him nothing, he refuses to do it.
5
A 35 day shutdown for 55 miles of fence - or 1.6 miles of fence per day. TIred of winning yet, GOP?
Take a step back for a moment. This proposed wall along the southern border is now a centrepiece legislation of Trump's administration. Let that digest. It portends an administration that is either bankrupt of ideas, or lacking the confidence or skill to execute larger and more ambitious projects that serve the public good. It is an index of Trump's smallness, lack of vision, and diminished sense of the possible. When people say the name JFK they remember him as the President who put American men on the moon. We associate Reagan's "tear down this wall!" speech with the fall of Communism. Clinton, for all his personal scandals, righted the economy and brought the US into historical surpluses. These are just a few examples. Other presidents have have their own historic achievements.
But when the dust settles on the Trump Presidency, his crowning achievement may very well be a fence that only partially covers the Mexico-US border.
America is a land of dreamers and doers, a land of dazzling ambition and unbridled imagination. Perhaps there was a time, decades ago, when Trump embodied one version of that dream. But today Trump is an empty husk of a man whose instinct is not to look to the heavens but race to the bottom, then go deeper.
9
@Norman
No, Trump's biggest accomplishment will clearly be remembered as this: shoveling $2 trillion at the 1%, who already have more money than they know what to do with.
3
Hopefully, Trump's El Paso rally will convince his base that he is keeping his promise to build his "beautiful wall".
My question is: when will Canada build its own border wall to keep out impoverished Americans seeking health care?
6
I can't wait to see Democrats explaining how they are against jailing people and yet support Kamela Harris.
1
@Hellen
I can't wait to see how our Art of the Deal President explains that after his government shutdown, he wound up with a couple hundred million dollars less for his "wall" than he would have had two months ago.
5
Yes particularly since ALL of the people seeking entry to this country are either robbers, murderers, and/or rapists.
1
@Hellen Like most sensible people, Kamela Harris is in favor of locking up people who break the law. Unlike many Republicans, Democrats are not in favor of locking up people fleeing violence & persecution. Where do you stand on human rights?
1
And how will Chimp receive this?
WHO KNOWS!!! Take a guess!
It will depend upon:
(1) What time of day he receives it.
(2) What Hannity tells him it means.
(3) The side of the slab on which he got up.
(4) What Pinochet would do.
(5) How much Executive Time he has allocated.
(6) The news du jour from Venezuela.
(7) How well (or poorly) he putted yesterday.
(8) His receiving a Valentine's Day card from Kim (or not).
(9) Something else inconsequentially VITAL in Chimp World.
15
Hey folks....Trumps got three more day s of Hannity/Coulter/Windbag opinion to evaluate during "Executive Time(code for watching teevee, tweeting, and snoring).
All I know is:
Mexico will NOT pay for the wall.
US Taxpayers were lied to about Mexico going to pay...no, WE will pay for the wall with OUR tax dollars.
If there IS a shutdown, all government workers should stay home starting day one.
Wall Irony? Trump causes more distress to American workers than the imaginary caravan and illegals do. These are Government jobs worked by Americans.
They are NOT threatened by illegals in any way, including the border agents who are presumeably well armed against mostly poor women and children.
Their biggest threat comes from.....you guessed it...Donald Trump.
14
"CRIMINAL ALIENS "
if someone was to ask you ,5 or 10 years ago , had you heard about Criminal Aliens ..
you would probably respond "I have not seen that movie yet.."
"Is that a new Sylvester Stallone movie ?"
7
Democrats caved and agreed to fund a monument to racism. Despicable.
8
Imagine… talk about Merry Melodies gone the way of minstrel shows gone the way of assignations gone the way of sexual assault. Talk about, conflicted politicians; if their hypocritical antics weren’t so criminally sad they would be comical. The latest slap in the face by a couple of newly elected political Queens; is the cunning chatter of Rashida Tlaib and Ihan Omar espousing their ancestral anti-Israel hatred.
Imagine… anti-Semitism in America, or wondering what’s going on in the minds of so-called constitutes who voted for these political wastrels. Ooh-well maybe their constitutes are as surprised and sad as the rest of us. Maybe Rashid’s follows didn’t know she kept company with Louis Farrakhan penning anti-Semitism op-eds for him prior her latest political win.
Imagine… infanticide or genocide in America, or anti-Israel rhetoric in America. Talk about conflicting political views on tolerance in America; you have to shake your head wondering, what’s next. Talk about Merry Melodies, when lawmakers aren’t dressing in black face, or espousing anti-Semitism. The latest liberal wunderkind, aka a Presidential candidate, aka the marijuana Queen Kamala Harris laughed it up with a couple of DJ’s suggesting let the good times roll! Ain’t life grand in Pixie Hollow.
2
@Wolfgang Imagine if America passed a constitutional Amendment declaring itself a country for Caucasian Christians of European descent and that all laws must recognize that fact. Imagine that America treated Jewish citizens _half_ as badly as Israel treats Palestinians.
And then imagine that if someone criticized this American white supremacist law and practice, Americans accused that person of anti-white racism.
Sign the agreement, Mr. Trump!!!!!
Oh, wait. He doesn't read and especially not here on the NYT.
5
Build the wall; keep illegals out
2
@NYC Dweller No human being is illegal.
6
@Stephen
If you don't like the correct term of "illegal", then these persons should adhere to our immigration laws and cross our borders where designated.
The terms has no bearing on a human being. It is associated with people who circumvent the legal process of entering the US
NY Times, with 325 comments, why do you repeat some instead of covering different ones?
1
Democrats need to loudly proclaim that they won and Trump lost. Trump is a loser. The Republicans are losers. Fight back, Democrats!!!
7
I'll bet you he will shut it down. Ask yourself: "What would Putin do?"
3
Donald will kinda, sorta, maybe agree to sign anything until he turns on the TV and hears Fox tell him how badly he's getting screwed. Then the cycle starts all over again...
10
The deal is not the best, Pelosi promised nothing, but in avert of dealing with a tantrum from the idiot, she decided to give him something. Unfortunately in his eyes it is weakness. She better to amp the pressure on all directions. Second the democrats need to learn to work and play in a cohesive manner. I see a lot of noise with candidates and tweets by many of the new members, show me muscle flex an, action but more than anything results. Best example candidates that they do not even have a chance. They are crowding the arena for what. All those candidates running campaigns weakens their presence in the senate, by the simple fact of their absence.
7
Gross. If we have $1.3 billion lying about for some fencing, can we just spend it on something useful, please? Like scientific research or something. NSF funding is pathetic right now. Fencing doesn't even stop my dog from leaving the yard, and he doesn't have the proper appendages to climb.
24
This is D.O.A.
"... and the president’s conservative allies on Monday night were already denouncing the deal. Sean Hannity, ... called it “a garbage compromise.”"
5
Forget Congress, forget Trump, does Stephen Miller agree and does Ann Coulter agree. Both are rabid bigots and pull Trump’s strings, and, I should point out, neither have been elected by even one American. America had unelected racists running the country. And let’s be clear, the violence in America, the shootings in schools and nightclubs, the murders of cops, are almost ALL committed by native born Americans and, as has been widely confirmed, the story about hordes of killers and rapists swarming across the border is a myth concocted by Trump for electoral purposes. But the real danger in America is not the southern border; it’s these disgusting immoral people like Miller, Coulter and Hannity, not to forget the dishonest owners of Fox and the National Enquirer. It’s sick and certainly undemocratic that such people basically are allowed to run the country.
45
@Cranford
It also highlights just what a pathetic empty suit Trump actually is. The great deal maker has no ideas of his own without the ones they give him.
5
@Cranford
Well said! These same commentators whip up the anxious public on TV and especially on rural radio stations. Then, indoctrinated with fear, our fellow citizens go to Trump rallies and look amazingly similar to Hitler's and Mussolini's mobs.
Democrats happily support wasting hundreds of billions of dollars per year fighting dumb wars in the Middle East.
They kick and scream and begrudgingly offer $1 billion for security on our own border.
But only if we agree to catch and release criminal illegal detainees, 97% of whom are never heard from again.
Trump can’t agree to this farce.
3
@Ken
Um, hate to mess with your fact-free reality, but it was a Republican president who got us into that "dumb war" in the Middle East. And - remember this part? - by lying about weapons of mass destruction.
5
@Marie S
Happily supported by warmongering Democrats.
Fewer detention beds means more migrants released into the general population. And 54% are criminals? Thanks, Dems.
2
@M We need to check that 54% figure. The Administration has a rather broad definition of criminals--generally they include people that they criminalized by charging a crime for the border crossing, among other ways of broadening the definition of "criminals." These cretins will detain legit families and asylum seekers for years counting on the susceptibility of their "base," who are probably like the rest of us too busy to check his facts, to fear-mongering about a horde of invading criminals from the south as a smokescreen for their own misdeeds. Also, since we are not Venezuela, a criminal is not someone who is suspected or even charged; a criminal is someone found guilty through due process.
4
Don't hold your breath waiting for Trump to sign it...
3
“We’re building the wall anyway.” That's all you need to know.
As the fictional - but now eerily close to the real - House of Cards president, Frank Underwood, remarked: “Democracy is so overrated.”
9
Trump can always use his "ace in the hole" for funding in the mean time he will get a little here and a little there from Democrats down the road
Democrats want to limit the number of beds ICE can maintain.
That, along with their enabling sanctuary state and city policies for sheltering illegals and the desire on the part of some to abolish ICE, tells you all you need to know about Democrats and the rule of law.
2
The Democrats gave up permanent protection for DACA people and protection for one of the most beautiful and ecologically sensitive areas of the US, the Rio Grande Valley.
3
Trump doesn't want a deal. He just wants a fight. Everything is about his base. He wants tax payers to fund his vanity project. The same man who is a freeloader and doesn't pay taxes.
14
To comprehend this article, I first had to get a grip on what the nature of the so-called "Border Crisis" is. I found an excellent summary at https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/trump-border-wall-arrests/?utm_term=.8a6d81414f10 -- with charts and graphs of the history of border apprehensions over time and by national origin.
Clearly, the statistics show that the "crisis" essentially ended almost 2 decades ago when annual detentions averaged about 1.25 million (eye-ball analysis method). Since 2010, the rate has been about 400,000/year -- roughly 1,000 per day.
So, in simple arithmetic terms, Trump wants to build a 2000 mile border wall to "catch" about ½ person per mile -- or one person per 2 miles.
Imagine that! Find a country road and walk for two miles and find one person! That's what The Wall would do. Does that meet the test of common sense?
9
@Maynnews
If border agents are catching 1,000 people a day now, how many would they catch if border security measures were actually effective? Your logic is flawed, but taking it at face value, if a wall did actually prevent the illegal entry of one person for every two miles, every single day, this year, next year and the one after that, I would say it was money well spent.
@Maynnews I no longer expect common sense from the current administration. Even calling them "an administration" makes my skin crawl.
2
@PWR
Pretty big "IF" ... Any proof that a wall is really effective in preventing illegal entry? (Hint: Answer is NO!)
Be happy liberals, Trump caved, and many more migrants will be coming to the sanctuary cities. In the suburbs, where I live, no so much. :)
Whether he gets 65 cents, or $1.37 billion doesn't matter since his base is too ignorant and insulated to understand that Pelosi and the Democrats ate his lunch.
Trump/Fox will crow that "Totaler Kreig" was successful, the Democrats caved, and the wall is fully funded and being built.
Maybe they are successful. My Blue state tax dollars support a gaggle of ignorant rural Red state welfare queens who don't even know they are on Democratic welfare, but they still control the country.
8
It's unfortunate that this article does not discuss how detainees at the border are being coerced into slave labor.
2
Ironic, isn't it! Richard Nixon ("I'm not a crook") and Donald Trump ("No collusion"; "Lock her up"):
The two foremost Republican criminal presidents in my lifetime, who staked their campaigns and presidencies on law and order and mischaracterizing and stereotyping minority groups as "criminals."
I don't care if Trump ends up being locked up in a prison, under house arrest, or in a mental health facility, but that man is both criminal and nuts, and this country is paying a terrible price for his psychopathology and narcissism.
17
Mr. Trum, you had two years with both chambers of congress held by your party and they did not give you the wall. Time to give up!
I want my grandchildren to enjoy real benefits of the taxes I’m paying today not just suffer your humongous debt.
7
As they say, it ain't over until the fat lady sings. In this case, Trump will have to wait and see what Rush Limbaugh and his inner circle of Ann Coulter and Laura Ingram think before he will accept or reject anything. Most Americans probably do not know who is really running the country and setting the agenda. This border wall issue may finally out our real president.
5
Let's get real here, this is all about politics. 1.3bn, 5.7bn or even 25bn is peanuts relative to a $4 trillion budget. If Obama asked for 25bn for border security the Dems would have rubber stamped it.
1
For those of us who are suffering thru a long cold winter, and starting to plan for summer vacation, could the WH please advise where this big beautiful completed wall is located. Some people are saying it's the eighth wonder of the world.Can't wait to see it, if only I knew where it is.
3
This whole thing started with the Democrats offering Trump $25 Billion for the wall. Now he might-- might-- end up with 1.37. Our President really is a genius.
10
Go along and roll along. Congress really wants to see the wall in its rearview mirror. Congress has bigger fish to fry and big donors to please. If that's not progress what is it?
1
“We’re building the wall anyway.”
The epitaph on democracy’s tombstone in America.
8
Mr. Trump, you had two years with both chambers of Congress held by your party and they did not give you the wall. Time to give up!
I want my grandchildren to enjoy real benefits from the taxes I’m paying today, not just suffer your humongous debt.
3
So now the question is, do Faux News hosts agree? That is what will determine the outcome, after all.
4
The president will derail any compromise that does not give him his ridiculous campaign promise for a Mexican funded wall.
Most Americans and world citizens, too, find the POTUS, Donald J. Trump, to be a repulsive human being. I am grateful to be an American but I am horrified that he is our president. Looking at this man fills me with dread. The sound of his voice and its cadence incites me to anger and disgust. I know others feel as I do. We are hopeful that he will be voted out of office or impeached within two years. We are counting the days. Unfortunately, this former president to be will remain a menace to order and governance as long as he has a platform to bark out his divisive and disruptive rhetoric. It is clear that he will leave an indelible stain on the Whitehouse. Let the stain of the Presidency of Donald J. Trump be a cautionary tale for what is possible in a great democracy such as ours if we let down our guard, relinquish common sence and put partisan politics over country
10
As a Democrat, every day I wonder when we as a group will hold ground on any principle. Republicans are always pushing for their wrong ways and we are always caving for whatever reason. Just yesterday Pelosi castigated the congresswoman from Minnesota that dared to criticized Israel. Stop it. Hold ground. We are the ones at the bottom suffering inequality with our children attending dilapidated schools while we send billions of dollars every year to sustain Israel. We are the ones drinking bad water while the trump administration dismantles regulations. Stop it. Just stop it.
15
@Frank Lopez
The congresswoman from Minnesota was not admonished by the Majority Leader because she criticized Israel.
She was admonished because of her continuous anti-semitic remarks.
And so, the reason your schools are dilapidated is because the US supports Israel? Ridiculous.
But, hey - good luck with that.
2
@Frank Lopez
Schools are funded by local property taxes and state subsidies. Your city, county and state are controlled by Democratic party politicians. You can blame Trump for plenty of things, but not this.
For me, one of the most frustrating things about this entire nauseating and repetitive "story" is the regular reminder about Trump's conservative supporter's reactions to legislation on the table. In this case we see the president’s conservative allies in the form of Sean Hannity, described as a confidant of Trump, already denouncing the deal calling it “a garbage compromise.” Hannity did not get elected. Neither did Ann Coulter. I am convinced Trump is too heavily swayed by these people and equally convinced it is causing him and the Republican Party a great deal more harm than good.
5
I have a question. What kind of gross inefficiency does it take to spend $1.375 billion on 55 miles of wall? I mean let's be serious here. That's about $4700 *per foot*. Are they telling us that it costs $4700 to build a single foot of concrete wall? Because that is beyond absurd.
10
All the president wants is one panel. Big. Solid. Strong.
And with a neon "TRUMP" for all to behold, at the top.
7
I believe that the media reported that only 6 people caught at the border in 2017 were serious criminals, and I think 4 of those came through the Canadian border. Trump wants more beds to lock up ‘brown’ people, whom he detests.
7
Too bad the dems didn't stand firm -
to give him one dime - after saying they would not
is not a victory
he will claim victory - he gets some of his wall -
they gave him money for a wall -
after saying they would not
a second shut down would further weaken him
he got his speech - and he got his wall
too bad they didn't prevent the speech
that is what he wanted -clearly
1
This isn't exactly good news. It all sound like a political calculation by the democrats to be able say that they gave ground on the wall, so now no one can blame them. I don't think they should be worrying about ignorant people who might have blamed the democrats for the shutdown. Trump owned it, on television. Speaker Pelosi stood up to him and said no to the wall, and now the democrats are caving in? Yes, another shutdown would be horrible, but caving in by disregarding common sense and moral principles is disappointing. I suppose it is self-defense, so that when Trump tries his next move, he will be standing alone, but it makes me sad to see the democrats folding on their support of the rights of immigrant rights. We can do better. In reality, they are giving over 3 billion to border security, half for measures that they think will work, and half to placate Trump. Nobody should be placating Trump. He is a reckless madman endangering our country at every turn. He is empowering racist and giving in to Putin's every request.
7
Trump watches TV and makes his decisions. He always wants positive reporting. Instead, he sees the coverage that he lost to Nancy Pelosi or he surrendered or he is lying, etc., that irritates him. So, he goes on temper tantrums. Press should stop poking at him and give him some room to lie. Democrats can accomplish plenty by stroking his ego, rather than fighting him all the time.
1
I believe in legal immigration. If you are an illegal immigrant and you violate anything, I have no sympathy for you.
I'm not sure why so many of you do, unless you routinely think it's fine to violate the "little laws".
I wonder how many of you park in handicap spaces when you are not handicapped?
IF you happen to be here and you are working hard, paying taxes (people can even if they are illegal) and don't violate ANY rules, then I'm not a fan of that person being targeted, but saying that these poor people violate minor offenses and should not be targeted, makes no sense to me.
Why not just encourage people who come here legally who are ok with following our laws to begin with.
Let's get productive members of society to join us.
For those of you who think walls or barriers are a joke, kindly mail me the keys to your house and cars.
4
@Ralphe you make an excellent point. The Dems have no concrete plan and have never proposed outlines for public scrutiny. This lack of leadership and vision causes stagnation. Bernie has vision and leadership but liberals hate progressives because they're not corporate but social capitalists.
Trump has vision and leadership but it's 1950's conservative white nationalism. So here we are stuck on a wall with no one debating liberal immigration policy vs Trump's brand.
@Ralphe Illegal immigrants who park in handicapped spots sure are the scourge of the earth. Not like any 'legal' citizen has ever done that. What a joke.
1
Behind closed doors Trump was no doubt told that a second shutdown was impossible. His bluff was called.
My grandson (4) wanted 3 cookies for snack and threw a small tantrum when I said he could only have 2.
After a brief standoff, I gave him 1 cookie. He ate it with gusto.
He seemed quite satisfied with his negotiating skills.
5
@Barking Doggerel
Keep him at current intellectual development, and he could be President!!!!
(No disrespect to your CHILD. Just meant we have a child in the current White House....so start grooming him now!)
@Barking Doggerel
Did it ever occur to you that he really only needed one cookie?
He should be satisfied with his negotiating skills.
You think you won.
1
@Ignatz I'm afraid it's too late. He can already speak in complete, logical sentences.
A few months ago we had a story in the NYT on how we spent 8 billion on the Afghanistan airforce. And that the airforce it still struggling. The total cost of that war could be over a trillion. I don’t see outrage from the left over the cost of that complete waste of money.
I really don’t care that much about the wall. It isn’t the top of my priority list. But I would much rather spend on the wall then spend money on the Afghanistan war that seems to have no purpose and no end.
For the left it isn’t the spending of money. And unlike wasteful military spending, the wall isn’t going to hurt anybody. And we already have 500 miles of wall. It’s not a new idea. The only reason left opposes the wall just because Trump is for it.
4
@Jim
You mean....like the GOP opposed EVERYTHING Obama proposed?
7
Here we go again, and again,... Probably no shutdown, but limping from CR to CR with Trump hammering "The Dems" for their failure to fully fund "The Wall." This is, and will be, his key electoral message right up to November 2020.
Does Trump actually care about "The Wall?" Not really, but it makes such a wonderful unifying issue to bash "The Dems" for the next 600 plus days.
Of course the House and Senate could craft a good appropriations bill that could garner more than the required 2/3's majority to override a veto. However, financial forces in the deep background will have none of that and woe-betide any Republican that dares break ranks with Trump and his oligarchs along with the bloggers and talk radio hosts that promote the oligarchic agenda.
We now live in an oligarch limited democracy where money manipulates public opinion and quenches any desires of the elected officials to stand up for the constitution and laws , rather to get re-elected is the only goal.
5
If you want to know what will happen next you'll have to watch Fox News (which I don't have the stomach to do)
If they react positively or even just have a neutral reaction to this deal then Trump will sign it.
If they react negatively to it then it will be vetoed.
Its sad that this is how our government works now but its a fact. I really hope the next election changes this.
6
Still no mention of the big-money interests that love cheap labor and don't care if it's legal or not. (like Trump did for years until his son was ordered to carry out his purge). Donald wants to paint these people as existential threats, but a lot of people sure welcome the cheap labor they provide. A few candidates talk about it once in a while, but those in power never do.
4
The President should learn from this negotiated "deal" . I assume it was negotiated with more "art" and regard for the opposition than was recommended in his own volume on the subject.
2
The Godfather movie is useful in this situation. Don Corleone offers a deal to a guy. The guy turns it down. So the Godfather reduces his offer, signalling to the guy that if he doesn't take the deal, the Godfather's going to have him removed from the game. The Republican congress last year passed a 'no wall' bill last year for more than this deal's $1.375 billion for fencing. Trump turned it down, now he's still not getting a wall, but even less for fencing. We know he doesn't read, but maybe he'll catch the movie's warning?
1
1987, Conservative hero Ronald Reagan/congress provided a general amnesty for non-criminal undocumented workers, with a proviso that employers who thereafter hire such workers would be fined and/or imprisoned for doing so. Enforce the law and the jobs will dry up and law violators will self-deport. Congress should also streamline the current temporary worker visa program to allow these workers to fill needed job vacancies which will provide them the full panoply of U.S. labor law protection - minimum wage, 40 hour work week, etc. - while they are here awaiting legal permanent residency. Otherwise our immigration system remains a joke.
3
So have we gotten to a point in the United stats that the document helps to clear these types of issues up is no longer important. the document is called The Constitution of the United States. Last time i checked the president does not get his way so shutting down the federal government is okay. NO! Send the bill to him and be prepared to veto it if needed.
3
Time to play hardball with Trump. Senate committees should canvas the full Senate for the agreement to ensure 67 veto-proof votes. Modify the agreement if necessary to reach this number. For good measure, threaten to not only override a veto but add on a Presidential Censure resolution targeting inflammatory rhetoric spanning the last 2 years.
1
A sure fire plan to stop the hiring and employing of undocumented workers. Make it a felony with mandatory prison time and $2000 fine for each undocumented worker in any capacity. Reward snitches with a tax free payment of $1500 dollars for the reporting of each undocumented worker used by their friends and family or anyone else.
2
This is a political fight.
And it is not seriously about large amounts of money.
$5 or even $10 billion is a drop in the bucket for a federal budget of several trillion dollars.
This is really a fight about immigration control.
America needs much stronger immigration"control.
At the border.
In the interior.
We do not need massive immigration.
We already have 330 million people.
Plus every year, one million more "green cards",
the right to legal permanent residence,
plus hundreds of thousands supposedly "temporary" visa,
in a plethora of categories, that somehow get extended endlessly.
That is plenty.
The world has well over 7 billion people.
Hundreds of millions would come here if we let them.
Limits are needed.
Limits on total immigration in all categories combined.
Numerical limits.
And they need to be enforced.
But Dems never lose an opportunity to try to gut serious immigration control.
Dems are not really fighting to control spending.
They know it.
And so does everybody else.
5
Slightly less than $ 5,000 per linear foot. A real bargain.
2
Whatever deal is reached doesn't matter. Trump aims to go around Congress. He will declare his emergency, or simply appropriate money earmarked for other projects and take the money for his wall. He will not let Congress or anyone else tell him he can't do what he wants. His delusions of absolute power with no restraints will finally be tested. If he's able to bypass Congress, then he will have proved that Congress is unnecessary and powerless. This will be the ultimate test of our representative government. God help us if he's successful.
4
Maybe there was a rationale for the “number of beds” issue pursued by the Democrats, but the optics on it are bad, and I don’t understand why they made it an issue in the first place. If someone is breaking the law by overstaying a visa or coming to the country without a visa and are caught, they should be detained which is a good deal more humane than simply taking them to the airport or the border and dropping them off on the other side. If we think detention is unreasonable, we should change the law and state explicitly what penalties (if any) there are for coming to, or staying, in the country illegally.
I do think Republicans have shamed their party with their disgraceful attitude and behavior towards non-white immigrants since Trump took office. I think it’s important for Democrats to oppose Republicans race-baiting immigration policies, but I also think it’s important that Democrats not go overboard and be seen to be undermining our country’s laws with respect to legal immigration. If the laws need to be changed, fine. Make the case for that and do it. But in the meantime don’t give in to special interests that want the US to end enforcement of its immigration laws. I doubt very much that most Americans favor that approach.
27
Agree completely, I’m not sure why “number of beds” is the thing Democrats chose to seek concessions on. I don’t want to be pessimistic, but it seems like democrats are holding true to the idea that they always find a way to screw something up. I get why they’re concerned with it, less space means ICE should be focused on criminals instead of low hanging fruit. But the optics of that is absolutely horrible for them.
3
@It’s News Here
That's the point, ICE is sweeping through neighborhoods and arresting people who they suspect - key word - suspect, are here illegally. In central Texas in 2017 half of the people ICE arrested in raids had no criminal background.
ICE isn't rounding up criminals, they are ripping families and communities apart. I live in Austin and saw the nighttime secret police raids first hand. Often, they will arrest people in the house that can't immediately produce papers/birth certificates. They detain these people for weeks. How would you like to be detained for weeks because you can't produce a birth certificate to a man holding a gun to your head?
Any "optics" of Democrats not wanting to round up criminals is being pushed by the Republicans and regrettably people fell for it.
14
Once again a conflated statement;
These people are coming legally; they are asking for asylum. It’s the law and they are allowed to do that. They aren’t breaking the law; they aren’t illegal.
16
If president Trump ever sign this deal, it is not because he backs down on "Wall" demand but rather the trade negotiation is under pressure. China is no dummy that can easily be cornered to sign everything Trump demanded. And the trade deal has much greater impact on his re-election in 2020. He knew deeply in heart that he needs the deal to satisfy his constituents in Idaho, Michigan, Ohio, and Pennsylvania, and several other Midwest states. He cannot afford that people blame him on government shutdown again affecting his re-election. He will make the deal and sign.
5
@Usok
Huh?
He'll build a wall blocking peope at the Mexican border to satisfy people in Michigan who are worried about people in China ?
It's clear Republicans don't support border security. They would vote for a wall and do nothing to fix the ports of entry were most illegal immigration, drugs, weapons and other contraband comes through.
Republicans support undocumented workers and trading guns for drugs coming through our ports of entry.
If Republicans really believed in border security they would raise revenue to pay for the wall. They have not asked for any tax revenue for border security they are asking for an unfunded appropriation.
The Republican party isn't just morally bankrupt, they are bankrupt.
Democrats are the only party that actually supports both border security by fixing our leaking ports of entry and stopping the use of undocumented workers. They also believe in taxes to pay for appropriations.
The Republican lie that Democrats are for open borders has to be challenged. The Republican donor class wouldn't have workers if it wasn't for undocumented workers who come in through our ports of entry.
67
@HL
Um, the wall has nothing to do with border security.
1
@HL you are exactly correct. The GOP need the wall like they "need" abortion restrictions. Not because they care but because the rubes that vote for them care. The GOP lawmakers understand the wall is stupid and wasteful, however it is a cornerstone of their decrepit "brand".
9
This compromise doesn't propose to terminate the Mueller investigation. If it is passed into law then wouldn't that mean that we actually can have both legislation AND investigation? I'm looking forward to seeing what Trump has to say about that.
1
The Democrats have to look like they're not actively supporting illegal immigration while doing everything they can to appease activists and prevent deportations.
The Republicans have to look like they're willing to negotiate while doing everything they can to appease the "Lock her up! Build the wall!" base.
If anything passes it will be a miracle.
2
Democrats:
Please do not do this. Even though you’ve brought Trump to heel, it’s still. $ 1 BILLION.
More importantly, there’s a principle at stake here; one having to do with what the United States stands for.
I’m not in favor of open borders. I’m not in favor of admitting anyone for any reason. I’m not in favor of amnesty for all.
But, we’re talking about a wall, and these kinds of wall s have all kinds of negative historical connotations. They serve only one purpose...either to keep people in l or, to,keep “others” out.
Sometimes, political parties and elected officials have to make a stand on principle. I believe this is one of those times. And, the principle is not about defeating Trump, it’s about what we, in this Country , want to stand for.
10
@Patrick alexander
Having trouble figuring out what you stand for?
If youre not for open borders, then why don't you support a wall? Because it keeps people out? Isnt that the point?
Youre worried about the negative connotations? Or maybe is it that its just inhumane to physically prevent people from walking across the border?
All this time - and OUR money - being spent to try to appease a demented, corrupt loudmouth who managed to get ahold of OUR white house.
Pretend this was when Hitler came to power and there were still a few people who didn't allow him to take them over. "Okay, fuhrer, we'll give you two extermination camps - but no more."
We all know how that turned out.
When will people in power in OUR political, legal, military and secret service complexes find their moral compass and spines and Lock Him Up to await prosecution, along with Minister Pence and Traitor Mitch McConnell?
He is trying to destroy OUR United States of America and the world because he thinks it is his right, like some demented child.
This must end right now. There is not time for the "law" to work when a crazy man has control.
17
@njglea
Unfortunately, the example of comparing Trump against Hitler when he came to power rings a bell of truth.
At what point in time do people rise up (backed by their own government) and impeachment and eject the one who NEVER had the talent to be president..He should take a page from earlier history, and
like Nixon who resigned to avoid impeachment
The speech he gave yesterday in El Paso was a perfect example. What a farce it was compared to a counter-speech a short distance away which had far larger crowds.
As this is being written, we now have to see if congress approves the "latest deal" or even reject it. Either way, we are heading towards a "no-win" deal.
What a pity.
2
@njglea Thank you for articulating my gravest concerns. There are days a I really can't believe that I'm living in America.
1
I'll believe any announced agreement actually has teeth when it becomes the law of the land and not before.
This is the summary of the last shutdown:
1. Congress: "We have a deal!"
2. Ann Coulter: "The president is weak because the deal doesn't include a wall."
3. Donald Trump: "We don't have a deal!"
4. Mitch McConnell: "The Senate will not even be allowed to consider any deal that Trump doesn't like."
5. 33 days go by, causing great harm to the entire federal civil service and a bunch of private industries.
6. Donald Trump: "OK, we'll do the deal, with no wall, but only for 21 days, and only because I want to give a speech."
Starting back at step 1 of this dance does not give me the slightest bit of confidence.
14
Make it veto proof. Then what Trump thinks won’t matter. It will also test McConnell—he may be so eager to pander to Trump that he won’t want to go the veto proof route. It would be nice to find that out and use that information against the person most responsible for destroying our democracy. McConnell may not succeed in destroying our government, but it won’t be for lack of trying.
41
@Barbara8101 You need 2/3's Senate to vote it throough if Trump vetos it. Not impossible, but unlikely.
I support legal immigration; I do not support illegal immigration. Obviously, with so many undocumented immigrants already in the country, not enough has been spent on border security. I therefore support additional funding for fencing where needed, electronic monitoring (drones, motion sensors, etc.) border agents, and more judges to process the asylum requests
23
@White LIghtening Border Security is certainly important but most illegal immigrants crossed the border legally via a visa. Compliance enforcement is needed to truly reduce the number of illegal migration into our country. The wall is political not practical.
2
@White LIghtening
Sounds reasonable to me!
@White LIghtening
Build a wall, and we wont need any more judges.
Asylum is supposed to be applied for in your home country. Crossing into the country illegally, then applying for asylum isn't how its supposed to work. That's why we have this ridiculous backlog
1
Does anyone have the funeral arrangements for Mr. Schumer? He said that the only way Trump would get a dime more than 1.3 billion dollars for border security is over his dead body.
9
@Richard Winchester --- reminds me of a "Goings On About Town" blurb from the New Yorker many years ago when they first introduced supertitles above the stage: "Supertitles make their debut in tonight's production over the dead body of James Levine, who will conduct."
4
@Bruce But James Levine won in the end and Met supertitles were junked.
@Richard Winchester I believe it's one day after Trumps who once promised Mexico was going to pay for the wall.
“Taxation without representation is tyranny.”
--- James Otis, 1761
In a few days, I am going to be considerably poorer than I am today because I just mailed a check off to the IRS to pay for a wall that nobody really needs or wants.
Wars and revolutions frequently get started for reasons much less
justified than this.
21
@A. Stanton 1.3bn for a 55 miles of fencing, US budget is 4 trillion. Never has more time been spent for an issue that is so little money in relation to the US budget. Congress writes checks for far larger projects without a blink of an eye. It's like buying a house in a day, while spending a year on figuring out what groceries to buy this week.
And you have representation, you can vote.
2
@Not 99pct
I'm glad you got what you wanted.
A big majority of American voters didn't.
http://time.com/4608555/hillary-clinton-popular-vote-final/
1
@A. Stanton
It appears you are still holding a grudge that the Republicans and Trump understood the nation and how to win the election in 2016 better than Hillary and the Dems.
As per our laws, a President is elected by attaining 270 or more electoral votes. Apparently Hillary and the Dems thought she would would win by campaigning with celebs and by ignoring a large section of voters who "do not count"
You don't like the electoral college? Then try to change the laws (good luck with that)..don't blame the winner for understanding how to win.
1
I'm confused. The article says that the negotiators thought that their congressional constituents would vote for the compromise. It also says that McConnell said "Just get it done." Then at the end, when it describes right wing outrage, it says that: "Republicans closed ranks to blast the plan." and McConnell said that "This is a poison pill that no administration should ever accept" and threatened to not bring it to the floor for a vote. So does it look like this is a compromise that will get voted on, or not?
28
@Eero I think the last section you are referring to of Republicans blasting the plan is in regards to the Democratic plans during negotiations to limit to a specific number illegal immigrants or "beds" that ICE detain at any point in time.
@Eero They “closed ranks” on capping the number of beds.
@Eero
See the Post article at https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/why-immigration-detention-beds-are-the-new-front-in-trump-border-wall-fight/2019/02/11/9c8e6d2a-2e15-11e9-813a-0ab2f17e305b_story.html?utm_term=.7310a84ea9a2
Apparently the Democrats backed off the cap on beds, but limited funding to the 2018 level. It still isn't clear to me that McConnell will let the compromise come to a vote in the Senate. If not, though, will he let the funding of the other agencies come to a vote, since the Republicans already approved those before the shutdown?
Trump should have taken the senate deal last year for 1.6 billion. The dollar amount is just going to keep going down...
The Art of the Deal. Haha. What a joke of a president.
29
@Josh G i also would like to know why my tax dollars are being spent on these trump rallies, where he lies like a rug with no recourse but fact-checking which leads to nothing. i resent it to the full extent of some law out there that must be against this travesty.
1
It is tiring to hear the arguments. Those who want a gilded Trump wall and do not like the government wasting their money have a much more effective and much MUCH less costly solution: make the hiring of people not legally able to work painful to the employer. Include very costly, punitive penalties and if egregious then add jail time. That is if you are willing to put your money where your mouth is.
Those not for spending money on walls to the extent you feel you are being extorted: ALL you have to do is state unequivocally that your vote will be significantly based on this issue and then actually vote.
12
@rg
What and do harm to the millions of hotels, restaurants and agribusinesses? Trump would never do that!
Trump was one of those employers until the spotlight got to bright. The employers don’t want what you propose because they know the role illegal immigrants play in our economy and their profit margins. The plutocrats play us all with these nonsense distractions.
@rg I don't think you realize the dynamics of labor, business and politics in the border states. Ranchers, construction contractors, roofing businesses and other small businesses that involve menial back breaking work rely heavily on illegal immigrant labor. Go to a Home Depot very early on a week day to watch it happen. This is all under the table work cash work. The employer like this labor since there is no workmans compensation or unemployment insurance to be paid and workers have no where to go if injured on the job or treated unfairly. All ICE would have to go is to every roofing job in the summer and check ID's. Come on don't be naive. All you have to do is drive in an air conditioned car on a hot sunny Texas summer day and see them work on the roof removing shingles. I admire their hard work and also feel sorry for them.
If you want ICE to go after this as you say they would be shutting down and putting in jail a lot of small local business men many of whom support Trump. That's why we're arguing over a wall that won't really reduce illegal immigration rather than do what you are suggesting. It's a safer way for Trump to fire his base while not effecting them.
The bottom line is summed up in that last quote from McConnell. The GOP and Trump's followers see immigrants as "criminal aliens" and "illegals" that are therefore not entitled to the basic human rights Americans pretend to value - you know, like not being forcefully separated from your children and detained indefinitely. Limiting the beds is the only way Dems have to check an ICE agency run amok. They are grabbing people out of the communities they have lived in and contributed to for years. Many of these folks are not criminals or animals or whatever, they are people and members of our society whether our byzantine immigration system has processed them or not. Do we really want our humanity prescribed and allotted by mindless bureaucrats and grandstanding politicians? I have no doubt that many of these immigration "hardliners" would have a change of heart if they had to look people in the face people and explain to them the bureaucratic reasons why their lives are being destroyed. Funny how the party of "don't tread on me" has become the party in full throated support of the militarization of our law enforcement and of extracting people from their lives because they don't have their "papers". Is it really racism that blinds people to this amazing hypocrisy?
17
@Josh: Well you have the Democrats to thank for this situation. Trumps just trying to straighten out their mess
@Josh illegal immigrants. That is all.
We live in an area of Governmental Armchair Quarterbacks.
This top down, ill-informed management does not work when it comes to big instatutional systems. And because of this nonsence we will lose the best we have in the government.
3
I'm glad that Congress has done its job and compromised, and it's way off Trump's demand. That just shows how much the charlatan president is out of touch with reality. Let him veto it, so that Congress can stick it to him and override it. And get back to the job of governing.
15
So, is Trump going to get Mexico to pay for the $1.3 billion wall? Or, how about Trump paying all those contractors who lost five weeks of pay due to the shutdown? Or, how about, Trump paying all those businesses who lost revenue because of the government five week shutdown?
So, what need up as the "compromise" was what Congress had, in December, before the government was shutdown by Trump. Actually, slightly less.
Instead of taking that deal, he caused a major stock market correction, put 800,000 government workers out of work, put thousands of contractors out of work, and cost many small businesses millions of dollars. All told, costing the economy $11 billion.
So, what does Trump do? Says he is victorious; he got his wall and claims the Democrats gave in.
So, Trump, and the GOP, will now use government shutdowns, as a matter of course, to get what they want. This is no longer government of the people; but government by extortion.
27
"Build that Wall!" has morphed into "Build a little bit of Wall!"
Trump promised to build a mountain.... and instead produced a molehill.
He couldn't even get the job done when the Republicans controlled the House and Senate.....typical.
I think it's going to be a long 2 years for Trump supporters, and the past 2 weren't that good for them either.
Or am I missing something here?
25
@Kenneth Johnson You are missing the lengths Trump and his band of supporters will go to to impose their ridiculous and simplistic policies on the rest of us. The more they lose (or win, it doesn't matter), the madder they get. Eventually the fragile dam holding back the violence will break. Then America will experience the crucible. Gird thyself.
1
This is so stupid. We need immigrants to shore up Social Security. Legal working immigrants pay into Social Security, but only collect on what they pay after they become citizens. And they mostly take jobs that Americans won’t, like picking produce. Immigrants are a gift, and we are turning them away.
41
@Laurie
The issue, as always, is legal immigrants, not illegals who just walk in or overstay a visa.
5
@Laurie you touch a point that people do not want to talk about. They accused all these illegal immigrants, that often use fake SS#s and the Social security system knows. They contribute to the system but because they are illegal they never will get what they put in. The question is where is the so call a country with morality? It is the new way to keep slaves. If those hard working people would get the legal permit to work they will also be paying taxes and probably spending more money. Most of them are hard working people. If anybody in this country has not hired an illegal immigrant must have statues in their honor. I doubt anybody in one way or another has benefited from the work of illegal immigrants.
@EGD
Trump is limiting ALL immigration and THAT is a problem.
1
End the nightmare, get rid of Trump. You can yell and complain about Trump, but the nightmare will continue if we don't get rid of Trump and Pence
35
@William yes, i agree. where the heck is mueller and his endless investigation. if he doesn't have something concrete by now, he won't find it. 2 years! this is ad nauseum. release the investigation findings.
The deal stinks. I don't want any of my tax dollars to go for Trump's walls, nor for private prison corporations that are making money "detaining" asylum seekers.
29
@Martha Shelley
Don't worry the Republicans don't believe in taxes. It's just more deficit spending. You won't notice the increase in what you pay for food.
@Martha Shelley
140 billion of your tax dollars goes to handling illegal immigration every year.
does that stink too?
@Sports Medicine
We could run our current deficit with zero taxes.
Déjà vu? Didn’t the same thing happen before Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity intervened?
11
@J Park
They still have a few days to persuade him not to sign off.
Let us remember that Trump has hired more undocumented workers than any other politician. Not one has murdered or raped his country club patrons. And is Trump even charged with the illegal hires? No. The law doesn’t apply to lying white Presidents.
48
@Malcolm
Trump has created more jobs than any other politician. More than every single current politician combined. Especially when you own so many hotels and resorts, its expected that a few illegals will fall through the cracks.
Think about the current Democrat candidates.
How many jobs have any of them created? Have any of them created even one job, besides perhaps some federal beaurocrats?
1
@Malcolm that is the problem. Somehow there are a lot of the ethics that apply to all federal workers including the senate and the house members, but no to the president.
1
@Sports Medicine
Trump has also caused more small businesses to die, mostly family businesses, by not paying his bills. He has went bankrupt 6 times (according to Allan Sloan) and thus hurt even more businesses.
2
Show your taxes so America can build the wall you need, 6 by 8 feet.
18
@Hollis
You think the Trump organization has never been audited?? LOL
The long view is Mr Trump and Ms May have led their nations into a fact free Universe not unknown to Mr Xi who invites the world to examine pebbles on the dark side of the moon while eclipsing his vulgar solution to the threat from phantom boogey men.
China incarcerates Muslims who have hung out in western China for generations.
Ms May grimaces about the dilemma of a Post Brexit recession while Boris Johnson opines that the UK would benefit from encouraging whites from former colonies such as Australia, not from Europe or Africa to fill jobs.
Boris is a border man and selective about the "quality of migrants".
Donald is a Xi man who would love to "edit" not just the news but the US gene pool.
Australian politics has degenerated to debating whether, yes, paedophiles, murders and rapists, terrorists as determined by the Immigration Minister, without resort to a court for public scrutiny can be excluded.
The Brexit process is ultimately predicated and will determine the future of rational democracy on one four letter word:
Wall
The Berlin Wall was obliterated by democracy
Hadrian used his wall to keep in the free people of Scotland
Walls encourage prisoners to escape.
I guess its just part of being human to enjoy liberty.
Building walls is a reaction to insecurity.
The Bird Man of Alcatraz said great things about America, a nation of kind gentleness still plying the caves of Tom Sawyer.
The US is needed for new great stories.
3
Mrs May did not lead her country into the mess it is in. She has tried, and continues try, to get the country out of said mess. Blame Tony Blair and The Boris. She is a woman of principal, hard working and duty bound. I ad mire her. She is NOT responsible for the mess in Britain. I come to her defence as she is one of the few politicians I admire and trust...
This much we know about Hannity: He really, really knows and loves garbage--his own, that is. Compromise is how things get done in the sausage-maker Congress, consigning it to a personal garbage heap to the contrary notwithstanding.
6
@FactionOfOne I love the description of Hannitythat one television reviewer recently used. He pointed out that on the rare occasions when Hannity isn't telling the world how smart he is, he has a "dog peering into in a mirror" look on his face -- head slightly tilted, brow furrowed, puzzled expression.
4
With a president as insecure as Mr Trump, who is more worried about his image as a strongman than core issues, I often wonder if the Times is inadvertently blocking progress by pointing out the score board minutiae in “Democrats win” language before the issue is signed. X amount less money, Y amount less fence. This will only harden POTUS’ position and make it more difficult for him to save face and let go of this silly project. Just a thought, perhaps let lawmakers do their job and publish the pros-cons after. This blow-by-blow score keeping can’t be helpful to good dialogue, debate and compromise.
9
@Alain Thebus
"With a president as insecure as Mr Trump." What nonsence. If anything, President Trump is certainly not insecure.
1
The dems fail miserably on border security. If they enter illegally they are breaking United States laws and should be arrested. That’s where money should go, in deporting and detaining and new ways of actual boarded protection. No need for new physical barriers or wall. The boarder is very important as a independent I am watch what the marshmallow Democrats do on this critical issue
4
@J Clark
Herein lies the problem. Ever since Obama issued DACA, Its family units coming across the border now with kids, not single men. Our laws say once a kid is involved, they don't get deported. They are held for a maximum of 20 days, then set free into the population, waiting years for their court date. In other words, once they make it onto US soil, they are in. That's why we have 22 million illegals here, not just 11. That's why we have a backlog of over 800,000 asylum cases. in order to stop this madness, we have to prevent them from stepping foot on US soil. Technology wont do that - only a wall will.
2
@Sports Medicine
Have you heard about the tunnels? What about them?
This may be far less than what Trump requested, but it is far more than the zero or one dollar announced by Pelosi. Trump can sign on this deal and still declare a national emergency as soon as the next caravan appears at our Southern border.
Meanwhile, Pelosi had to cancel hers and her compadres overseas excursion, but Trump got to give his SOTU which was well-received by republicans and a reasonable number of independents.
In other news:
We got confirmation by democrat Howard Schultz of the radical left turn of his party that would force him to run as an independent.
We witnessed the deep-seated racism and sexism in the Virginia democrat leadership. Incredibly, in just one week's time, the same Northam who tried to justify sporting a blackface in a yearbook picture as a young adult also defended a new definition of "post late term abortion".
We were also shocked by the anti-Semitism of the newer members of the democratic majority in Congress.
If we always knew the democrats full-fledged support of illegal aliens, from sanctuary cities and states to desperately trying to preserve the dangerous catch and release program, the last two weeks have proven that many of their positions are just as indefensible.
18
@nomad127 So many straw men! Where to begin?
First, please name one democrat who offers "full-fledged support of illegal aliens." No one supports open borders. The question is an ethical one: how should we treat those who cross the border? I hope you would agree that that is a legitimate question.
Second, Northam certainly has his issues, but the conservative focus on late-term abortions is nothing but a political rallying cry. As far as I know, no one supports anything called "post late term abortion." Lest we forget, Northam was a physician. He's not proposing post birth abortions!! He misspoke, and that's all there is to it. Abortion is certainly a complicated issue, and it deserves critical reflection. Parroting Fox soundbites isn't particularly helpful.
48
@A Wells - don't bother. This one's part of the cult.
15
@nomad127
Since when is criticizing APAC considered anti-Semitic? I don’t get that.
12
If Trump wanted to govern he’d take deal and move to another policy agenda item to help the country. But this is really about campaigning so he’ll probably reject it and fight over his wall as long as possible. He’s leading his campaign, not the country. From a political tactical sense I can see why he thinks it works for him because it’s all about him 24/7. Sad but true.
10
@Tim Carroll
Oh yes, the Democrats are not even considering what a deal on border security means for their chances in 2020.
Never entered their minds.....
Businesses are soft on illegal immigration. If you’ve ever lived in an area with chicken or meat packing plants, then you know who works at these facilities! These big name employers do not try hard to determine whether their employees were legal. The work is fast-paced and low paying. The cycle of poverty is enabled by businesses which talk from both sides of their mouths and profit mightily.
11
This compromise bill shows that legislators can, once again, work together in a give and take process. Regardless, for the first time since 2016 I feel there is hope for America - even though Trump will toss the proposal in the trash bin.
4
And now will Trump agree to this deal? Will his right-wing media critics allow it? Or are we back to shutdown or national emergency declaration? It's tough to predict when we don't know who is running the country. Or if anybody is...
6
@Meg
Meg, here how it will work. Trump will declare a state of emergency right after he reads, but before he signs, the bill and will start building the wall using Pentagon funds. Get it?
2
First, Trump needs to stop using the royal "we." He does not speak for the majority of Americans.
Second, "The Wall" is 530 years too late in the building to have any positive benefit for the inhabitants of this continent. The natives of the late 1400's are not responsible for the dismal state of our environment, ecological or political.
Finally, a second temper tantrum shutdown will not win Trump a second term. We (not the royal kind but the collective) are tired of histrionics.
Trump should be smart enough to understand that, but his ego gets in the way of what little ability to reason he does possess.
11
If you came to an airport without a visa, you would be detained until deported, no reason land entry should be different.
5
@Qcell People don't spend years in the airport building lives and families. It IS different. Don't try to imagine otherwise.
6
@AJ Garcia
Nope, you're wrong.
Coming into our country without successfully going through our immigration processes or without proper documentation means you will be detained and potentially deported. Doesn't matter if you are at an airport or at our southern borders.
These scenarios are EXACTLY why the US has well established, long standing immigration laws.
Seeking asylum is legal.
1
Bollard “fencing” is a wall. Bollard walls are highly destructive walls that are impenetrable to wildlife and cause destructive flooding and resource damage. The dems caved in this respect and it’s time the press and elected officials call a spade a spade. The media does no one any service by perpetuating the spin that as long as it’s not a “concrete” wall it’s not a wall. NYT, I hope to see better.
6
Democrats obviously fear that a substantial border barrier extending across a larger portion of our border would nullify what for them is a winning election issue among their constituents who see no difference between legal and illegal immigration and don't understand why there should be limits to either one. In both NY and California there are plans or rules already in place for taxpayers to pay for the healthcare and higher education of illegal immigrants, the granting of driver licenses to them and an active effort not to cooperate with federal officials seeking to identify and detain illegal alien criminals. The reasons Democrats provide are that we are a nation of immigrants, or that we have a moral obligation to help those in need. In reality they simply believe that they can get more Hispanics to vote for them by supporting open borders. If, say, there were much larger numbers of more conservative Eastern (white) Europeans making their way here illegally Democrats would be demanding immediate and strong action. What they are doing, however, is educating people in many areas that will help decide the 2020 election that their concerns lie not with their potential constituents but with non-citizens they want their constituents to support. Soon we will see Democrats demanding that illegal immigrants receive an income, housing and transportation paid for by American citizens.
4
@Allen It's 2019, Allen.
The factories are still shutting down.
Companies are getting richer as their employees are getting paid less.
Houses, school, and healthcare seem to be growing less affordable by the day.
Nothing is getting better for "citizens" under this administration. Throwing a bunch of undocumented immigrants into lock-up hasn't solved your problems.
8
oh my, a fence to enforce our immigration laws. What a tragedy that we will try to do what every nation does; keep immigration through legal channels.
Letting folks wander over the border implicitly biases our immigration policy against Asians who have to patiently apply for visas. They can't just slip over a border but have to fly.
Legal immigration is fabulous; undocumented chaos is silly.
5
But, but, but...Mexico's funding the wall - not me, not us, right? I mean we're already paying for trump's big tax break for himself. He's got social security and medicare cuts in his budget plan (and more tax breaks for himself). He wouldn't charge us for this wall that no one knows what it looks like, and seems to be waaaay overpriced - would he? Our fine, moral, upstanding president?
9
@Sook
Sook, we now own Mexico. They love us down there.
Why do you think the immigrants wait for asylum approval on the Mexican side of the boarder now?
It is time to stop this political nonsense. The necessity to build a "wall" or "barrier" should not be about speeches and politics it should be about common sense. If walls and barriers did not work we would not have them all over the World to protect life, limb and property from unauthorized intruders and to mark sovereign boundaries. Partially shutting down the government and deferring government workers pay and furloughing some employees has got to stop as well. Presently our system is punishing the wrong people. The laws need to be changed so that Federal Employees pay and work schedule is not interrupted during a budget impasse. If I were President, until Congress did change the law uncoupling Federal Employees pay and the Budget, I would declare a National Emergency. If the Congress and the President are not able to come to an agreement regarding approving the Budget I would authorize payment of all Federal employees, as usual, regardless of what the present law says. That being said, there would never be another "Government shut down" for a Budget impasse. The time is now.
20
@NYChap If common sense was indeed such, people would not incessantly appeal to it
@NYChap "If walls and barriers did not work we would not have them all over the World ".
For example: How many flights (one-way or round-trip) are there between Israel and Palestine? Likewise, back in the day, Berlin?
Compare to all International flights into the U.S.
3
Why is there little or no mention of increasing the legal resources to process detainees in a timely fashion? The number of beds used is a function of the influx due to ICE and Border Patrol action minus the efflux of legally processed detainees. It is so obvious that the number of judges and amount of legal resources is far too small to provide for proper processing in a humane and effective manner, and as a result, a large number of beds must be available. An effective approach that I have not seen proposed would be to greatly increase the number of judges and legal staff to handle the crushing load provided by the apparently very efficient of the ICE/BP process. Is anyone proposing this as a part of the solution to this humanitarian disaster?
9
It sure seems like the Democrats' focus is spiting Trump. To want to limit detentions and by extension, limit the number of illegals getting into the country, is saying they don't want to enforce immigration laws. How did the Democrats go from being fairly concerned about border security to being stupid? Because they don't like Trump (and with good reason) doesn't mean to cave in on immigration enforcement. I wish the Democrats would focus on income inequality, health care, infrastructure, all the things they said they would.
12
@gmt
Because the majority of immigration detention centers are for-profit, they maximize profits by keeping the beds full. But they are paid by the federal govt. If Congress passes a budget to house 100,000 detainees, these companies will find a way to round up 100,000 undocumented immigrants. It's a money game. Most of these folks pay taxes and many have served in the US military. Yet Rep lawmakers want us taxpayers to pay these companies more and more to lock up law abiding, tax paying non-citizens.
10
@gmt. Your comment is the one I hear most often by various people. It is why Democrats fear an independent running in 2020.
@Jake The problem Democrats have is that they have long ignored the prison for profit jailing of American citizens. Especially members of one of their most loyal voting blocs.
They are going to have a hard time explaining how they fought so hard against jailing illegal immigrants and yet their leading presidential candidate has upheld imprisoning Americans even when there has been proven misconduct by law enforcement.
Now the next step is to get the deal approved by Russ Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Lou Dobbs, Sean Hannity, Tucker Carlson, FOX News and any other conservatives pundits you may think of. And when you get their approval, present the deal to President Trump.
24
Democrats and liberals share as much blame for the toxicity of Hannity and Coulter. Colmes willingly played sidekick to Hannity and Maher routinely gave Coulter a platform.
I remember Jon Stewart going on Crossfire and chewing out both sides for their complicity. Yet both sides continued and now Democrats cry foul because Republicans proved better at the sideshow. It has been a disgusting spectacle that contributed to the decline in real journalism and Democrats were part of it. Stop playing the victim now.
3
Nah. One party is made up of adults intent on governing and it ain’t the GOP. The most harmful narrative out there is the endless equivocation, like you’ve offered here in this comment. That you’d even compare the two sides!
9
To not have a good Southern border barrier is very shortsighted. With global warming washing away coastlines, deforestation causing mudslides and land to be unusable in South and Central America, and the countries South of the US border becoming unlivable in the decades, there will be even larger invasions than the current mobs.
Hopefully the cheaper border wall will be supplemented with drones, cameras, and patrols.
I can't imagine where the environmental refugees will go, but they can't come to the US.
5
@mrmeat Hmm. Let's say for the sake of argument that we in this country became the environmental refugees, and, no country would let us in?
We, the United States, needs to quit with the exceptionalism we believe we have.
5
@Dan You will all try to come to Canada. We like you a lot. But all your politics will have to remain in your former country. For so many years, the nastiness of US politics has bewildered us. Such nice people...such lunatic ideas. So self righteous, convinced the American way is a shining light for the world..so eager to impose it on others. I could go back to the treaty of Versailles, all the liberating interventions...all, without fail, disastrous. No, I lie, the Marshall Plan was beneficial, at least if you lost ww2. Now, just when a global outlook and global cooperation becomes vital, back to some form of isolationism. Sigh.
While Trump focuses on his wall, the rest of the world is falling apart. Thank you Trump and all you Trumpsters for giving the lead to our adversaries.
6
@DSS
Every objective in the Trump "plan" is intended to weaken the rest of the world. They don't lead anymore, we do and they just fall in line...
DSS, you don't get it and probably never will.
Finally, we have members of Congress acting like adults---now, the problem, the father of the house, is too distracted with TV, social media, and food to pay much attention to what the adults in the next room have come up with.
9
Who knows where this will go, as in depends on Trump's mood when it crosses his desk. How can congress, or the american people, know what will happen when even Donnie Trump doesn't know what he will do.
12
We AVERAGE. 25 to 40k per month apprehensions and recently it has gone to 50k-presumably because people know that better security is coming?
We cannot let somewhere between 2.5 million and 6 million people walk in per year.
I am a Democrat. I loathe Trump. But those numbers are not sustainable.
12
@Lefthalfbach
Take the $1.375B and use that for the 55 miles of wall.
Declare a national emergency and use that as the basis to fund the remaining 145 miles of wall you want.
1
@Lefthalfbach Do the apprehensions come at the border or at the various entry points? From the studies I've heard the rate of those crossing at the border (Rio Grande entry at Mexico border) have been down. The great "caravans" trumpeted by Trump are more myth than reality. Border control at all points must improve, but "The Great Wall of Trump" isn't the answer!
5
Not only are those numbers unsustainable, they’re NOT BELIEVABLE. Dept of Homeland Security estimated 70,000 per year from 2010-2015
5
A compromise was reached. I will breathe a sigh of relief when it passes both houses, and the ink has dried containing djt's signature.
Let him, the "fugitive at large" have his fictitious victory dance.
3
This and every other article on the topic always contains lines like "concerned about reneging on his signature campaign promise..." I don't want to hear anymore of that. Every article about the wall instead needs to say "...unconcerned about reneging on his signature campaign promise to have Mexico pay for the wall, Trump continues to insist that Congress fund it."
19
Sounds like Brave Sir Donald caved again. Snicker. I will be interested to see what Coulter, Vox and that crowd have to say.
5
I am not a Trump supporter but if I was I would not be soured on him merely because his promised wall may not be built. Even Trump supporters should be smart enough to realize that it’s always been up to Congress to fund a wall (Trump never said anything during the 2016 campaign about invoking any emergency powers to build the wall). Trump has done as much as he could to get a wall built. If you are someone who wants a full wall, blame Congress, not Trump. That goes for you too Donald.
8
@Jay Orchard - you assume that Trump's supporters understand how the government works. I doubt that many of them do and certainly Trump himself doesn't.
24
Does any other country have this type of detention facility machine on a large scale? Why are the facilities kept secretive? How long does the average person stay in a facility? These are incredibly expensive undertakings yet the U.S. has no money to modernise education or provide basic health care? 40,000 people in one facility seems massive. I'm clueless.
12
@Patricia
Right. all good points. That's why we need a wall.
5
@Patricia
No other country has people illegally immigrating to it on this scale. Europe had large scale migration for a little while, but since Trump defeated ISIS, it has slowed to a trickle.
5
@Patricia
So how is it you are not aware of the fact the "whole" world wants to immigrate to this country.
2
I would suggest someone send hatemonger Trump a copy of the Constitution, but he apparently can't read and wouldn't abide by it even if he could.
12
The US Constitution says that those who enter America illegally can be detained, arrested and deported. With 11 million people inside our borders who have no legal permission to do so, America needs to rally its security forces, find these people and send them home. No more "catch and release" because they disappear into America once they've been released. No amnesty for lawbreakers.
3
Wow, all this heartbreak over jailing illegal immigrants yet American citizens have been jailed and had their lives ruined over smoking a joint or other minor offenses. The hypocrisy is really evident when Democrats are pushing Kamela Harris. It's interesting to watch attempts to reconcile that.
5
"Sean Hannity, a Fox News commentator and a confidant of the president’s, called it 'a garbage compromise.'”
Who cares what Sean Hannity thinks? He's a TV/radio personality lacking all qualifications required of a legitimate journalist or analyst. He is to his field what Trump is to the presidency -- someone...
- out of his depth, who:
- owes his position to luck and circumstance
- long outlasted his expiration date
- should realize that the less he says, the better he looks.
For most of us, Trump himself is the garbage compromise. We're forced to tolerate his incompetency, drama and braggadocio 'til the (by whatever means) end of his term.
If the House and Senate Democrats and Republicans all agree on this deal, the Hannitys of this world should stop stirring the pot so Trump can (one hopes) sign it and we can finally, finally, finally move onto more urgent issues.
48
Very disappointed that nothing about the reunification of families was included. The DHS still has not reunited all of the children with their parents from the first couple of caravans. This has to stop. Building that many detention centers is outrageous since illegal crossings are at a 40 year low.
16
There are not enough detention beds. Only 40,000? We need probably upwards of 100,000. Maybe a million detention beds. This seems the core issue to me --- not the wall. Whether you build a wall or not, illegal immigrants will get in. There was an article not long ago showing how illegal immigrants dug a hole under a wall and 147 of them got through, only had to dig about 2 feet down. What a dumb wall that was.
Much better than a wall, is the ability to detain illegal immigrants once they illegally enter the country. THis nonsense about breaking up families needs to be exposed for what it is... a prevalent distaste for enforcing immigration law. If everyone who entered the nation illegally could expect to be detained indefinitely until deported or granted asylum (with over 80% of asylum claims rejected, remember) then this would be far more effective than a wall, which will just funnel illegal immigrants to other points of entry.
3
All I know is that Republicans were "in charge" in 2001. Soft on security? They know what they are talking about.
6
@Scott Franklin yessir, great comment. A Republican's promise lasts as long as the taking of his oath of office, then it's "who, me, I said what???"
My family members are airline employees.
Donald Trump and the govt should not be toying with the lives of those that need safe airlines, (which is all of us) whether employees or passengers.
Donald Trump is from the city that endured 9/11. If he had any brains he would consider the danger in the air that he himself created in the last shutdown for 35 days. No one else to blame but himself. Has he forgotten or is he just clueless about airline tragedy?
When Trump’s border issue tampers with our airlines, it’s time to get a grip. We cannot have another govt shutdown, we just can’t. Trump was fortunate this past time, but even his supporters would turn their backs if innocent lives are lost or maimed mid air because of Donald Trump’s lies, recklessness, and irresponsibility.
17
This is a huge victory For President Trump. So what if he only got $1.3 billion. He gets that each year. He can't spend more per year anyway!
Weak Dems. He couldn't shut down the government or declare an 'emergency' again... McConnell said as much. What a great campaigning speech to his nation this will make. Added to the amount he didn't spend, he'll have at least half by election day. He was right all along. I guess he really is a great President.
5
Hannity has already blasted this deal...guess we’ll see what Coulter and Limbaugh have to say about the deal. Only then will we know if #45 will sign.
13
Deems, once again, giving up without any gains in negotiations. Typical.
5
@kilika
Wrong. There won’t be a shutdown. Trump knows he lost on this one. If it passes the Congress and he signs, accept a win.
3
There is a 'Huge" difference between Hardened Criminals that should be behind bars and the "criminal aliens" that have false social security numbers to enable them to work for less than minimum wage for their legal employers like Trump.
It is a lot easier for ICE to throw women and children into detention than to go after Hardened Criminals.
16
@Clint Yes it is. Which makes it even harder to accept that there are 11 million of them living in America.
2
Now he can go forth and claim he built half a wall, and if we just elect him to four more years...
1
If we have billions for a small piece of wall that will need endless maintenance, then why don't we have the money to fix the problems immigration creates? Why the need for a sacrifice when we clearly have vast amounts of wealth at our access?
2
How many new judges? How will cases be prioritized?
Hopefully they kept at least the 75 new judge teams that were proposed. And hopefully the cases can be reprioritized so the newest cases are handled first.
If we can rapidly process, reject (90%), and deport new illegal aliens and asylum scammers, we will send a deterrent signal back to Central America, which could lessen the need for a complete border barrier and more detention beds.
5
It seems ICE agents have a reputation and a culture it seems that is as cruel and even rogue as the criminals or so-called criminals they detain. This is Trumpism too. This does not make America great.
4
Republicans and Trump do not appear to want a wall. They want to give the appearance to their base and to ultra-right wing commentators of wanting a wall. Trump doesn't want to be called a wimp and the Republicans don't want to be seen as shilly-shallying. The Republican hoopla about the wall is all political posturing. The noise about the wall is just noise. Yes, and most of the base will not see it as the disingenuousness that it actually is. They will lemming-like follow the clarion call for the wall, rattling their muskets, and loudly proclaiming the virtue of their cause. Cannon fodder!
8
@Samantha
No one wants Trump’s Wall. It was never more than a slogan. A slogan of racism and xenophobia. Trump will continue the slogan - racists and xenophoes make up a lot of his base
2
If the agreement is based on principles, Donald Trump will not understand it.
8
From the print article: “Mr. Trump was catching on. When Senator Richard C. Shelby, Republican of Alabama and the chairman of the Appropriations Committee, presented him with the Democrats’ demand, he rejected it quickly and said he would rather shut the government down than agree, according to two people briefed on the exchange.”
That this administration would still shut down our government for political leverage is appalling—yet that quote, “said he would rather shut the government down than agree, according to two people briefed on the exchange,” has been omitted from this online version of the article. Why the change?
6
And so now we will find out if Hannity values his market share more than his ability to hobnob with this White House. I predict will start hearing major spin about how Trump won in this deal, just like Fox tried about 24 hours after the shutdown collapsed. Hannity and friends just don’t want to lose this pipeline any time soon.
1
Let's all hope that Congress has demonstrated "The Art of the Real Deal" rather than Trump's autocratic "The Art of the Raw Deal." It's a bipartisan deal that represents how government must and should function. Now the leaders of both chambers of Congress should marshal their members to pass it with a veto-proof majority. It's time to #MakeDemocracyWorkAgain.
6
It is a compromise. Too often, people watch from the sides insisting on a perfect bill or nothing - causing serious collateral damage to many.
Passage, once again, will come down to McConnell doing his job. If it passes the House and a vote is allowed in the Senate, then Trump will likely have no choice but to sign it. If not, he will once again own the shutdown, which will harm both him and the entire GOP.
8
That is the GOP charge that you're letting criminals in. Which certainly isn't indicated by the crime statistics. The real issue is that Trump wants to make immigration as the destroyer of US society. It is a major issue not a existential threat to the republic. This is a major mistake by the GOP to allow Trump to hold the entire gov't hostage to this issue.
11
Way to go Democrats. Being Soft on illegal immigration is not a traditional left wing cause. But picking the biggest fight in a area that plays into Trumps hands. Bring him back into the race. The hypocrisy will be found out, as the penny drops. The Democrats are not really against walls, they have built 600 miles of them. They just don’t like Trump.
10
@Dactta I think dems don't like blackmail or the huge cost to taxpayers for this wall when we don't even know what the wall will be.
6
It’s 2019. Democrats are certainly not against border security, but they want it at the most effective cost. It is bizarre to see the Republicans being the most fiscally irresponsible party.
6
@Dactta. I am a lifelong liberal and was a Democrat but they lost me when they went ultra left and supported illegal immigrants. Liberalism meant a helping hand, not handouts. It meant civil disobedience, not anarchy. It meant fighting for Americans first. Staunch liberal icons were against illegal immigration but supported strictly enforced guest worker programs. That was true of even Cesar Chavez.
6
Trump's signature isn't neccessary if they can muster 60 votes in the Senate. Why does Trump get a say in this,
13
@Blueinred actually 67 to override a veto.
Trump lost this one. He didn't get what Fox News demanded. His leverage is weak. He already played his hand. He got outplayed by Nancy Pelosi.
He can either tout this as some kind of victory and risk the wrath of Fox News, or he can condemn it and take the wrath of Fox News as having failed.
Or, he can veto the whole thing and send the nation into turmoil, get blamed for that, cause many future losses for Republicans, and still take the wrath of Fox News.
This should make for some exciting political theater in the coming days. Theater is Trump's specialty. He certainly doesn't know how to be a president.
700
@Bruce Rozenblit
The Theatre of The Absurd is really Trump's speciality, and the imaginary wall saving his presidency bears the name Godot.
91
Having watched the way the last shutdown played out, he’s not that good at theater either.
62
@Bruce Rozenblit He'll go with the turmoil, I'm betting, since that will get him the most attention. The aftermath is beyond his attention span.
58
3 big questions. Will the House and Senate vote approval, will Trump then sign it and if Trump vetos it will the house and senate vote to override?
As far as detainees go, who benefits from having 40,000 people locked up? How much money is the private prison industry giving away to Washington? It would be a lot cheaper to put them on buses and send them south.
6
@Alan it would be a lot cheaper to stop security around trump and his family and leased properties.
8
Has anybody done the math here? Whether it’s 1.375 B for 55 miles, or 1.6 B for 65 miles, it comes out to $25 Million per mile. Seriously? Who buys a fence for $25 Million per mile??? This seems less about border security and more about stuffing some cronys’ pockets.
23
@Tom Rose
"Who buys a fence for $25 Million per mile???"
Well, nobody normal - but this isn't a normal wall (and don't call it a fence. Nope, not a fence. Not ever).
I had read that this eye-watering cost per mile includes not only the staffing and guarding of it but also all the sensors, cameras and other expensive hi-tech that such a wall demands.
But, I'm sure you're right. Lots of money to made here if you have the right connections.
6
Trump has never said, Now that I look at this issue, I’ve changed my mind. He is incapable of analysis and creative thinking. His only method is to double down on his initial position. Sadly, the only fix is removal or to render him useless. I believe Republicans are started to see a way out by making their own (Trump-proof) decisions.
6
Compromise? I dont think so. Still smacks of trying to appease the perpatrator of a made up crisis. POTUS has yet to formulate a refugee policy direction that the American people can vet and Congress can fund. Politics has replaced governance. Again, Congress's job is to work for the country, not the President.
13
Who seems to be steering Trump? His West Wing staff, whoever is left, certainly is not. Chief of Staff Mulvaney is merely being a Yes-person to whatever Trump utters. No one in Trump's inner circle is playing devil's advocate, making Trump consider multiple angles in any policy decision. Trump appears rudderless and Trump left to his own devices makes poor decisions.
Oddly enough, it may be Sean Hannity. Sean and various other Fox Entertainment talking heads (e.g. Fox & Friends personalities) who aren't journalists say things on TV and Trump immediately tweets those ideas. Fox is handing Trump talking points.
For example, Sean already stated that any GOP Congressional rep voting for the bipartisan plan will come under sever questioning by himself and others at Fox. The reason is because the new budget may not fund any wall construction.
So who cares about a wall? If Democrats and Republicans fund improved border security that's an acceptable negotiated compromise and how politics works. So if Trump vetoes a bipartisan budget deal that Congress approves, it shows Fox steers Trump. After that, we'll see if Fox steers the GOP because Congress can nullify a presidential veto with a 2/3rds vote but that requires Republicans voting alongside Democrats for a deal they already approved in bipartisan negotiations.
If Fox Entertainment is steering Trump, and influencing the GOP, then they are not reporting news, they're a propaganda machine.
8
Democrats:
Once again, don’t give him ANY fig leaf for his wall that he can use to brag about a “win”.
Absolutely no money for his wall or anything that can be construed as money for his wall.
21
He's already bragging about a win. I saw signs proclaiming "Finish the Wall," as if it were legitimately begun.
1
@srwdm the dems will cave in, as they always do. They hung howard dean out to dry because the repubs screamed loud enough. remember, dean gave a big whoop when he won the iowa caucus? that was it for him. the dems didn't tell the repubs they were ridiculous and make that the issue. No - they let dean go. (and they care not that trump insults, lies, screams, and is the russian's darling!! and our fight there is equally weak! they wouldn't have put up with that from Obama, i guarantee it!) they won't fight. even with clinton, they didn't fight for her. they just knew she would win, right? i knew she wouldn't, even though i wanted it badly. When will the dems learn to fight?
It’s a messy compromise that neither side likes.
In other words, it’s a good compromise. Or at least the best one possible at this point.
Most importantly, it brought Congress back to some semblance of normal working order.
Perhaps another conference committee can now be formed to explore a bigger immigration deal.
13
All reporting is slanted to show how this we less than what trump wanted so it must be a setback. Well it’s more than the Democratic lawmakers campaigned on. Why is that not noted. It was a bi partisan negotiation with each side getting some of what they wanted. It is $1.4 billion more than what the Democratic lawmakers campaigned on. That is not mentioned.
And the children separated from their parents? And the ICE raids on homes? And the people who adjusted working papers at his golf courses? And the meddling over oil in Central America destabilizing Venezuela and Honduras driving these people here fleeing for our help? And all the promises of self sufficient oil within our Borders? Why are we continually invading or supporting manipulation for oil magnates?
Education and human services have been deemed socialism and lay rotting on the ground while Bolton and Pompeo prepare invoices to the American people for military services in blood for oligarchs and dictators all in the name of freedom and liberty to burn their oil for Citizens United.
We are turning our country into a militarized New Jersey Turnpike strewn with the bodies and blood of children.
31
Forty or fifty thousand people a month crossing the border illegally is a lot of people. (Assuming for ever apprehension, one is getting through).
I don't see what harm a shutdown would cause, big corporations lose a little money, so what. Only downside is federal employees that didn't save for a rainy day, not so bad when you consider the millions of other Americans who have lost jobs and livelihoods.
3
@somsai
I agree, although when the shutdown started affecting air traffic controllers, thats when the President gave in. We could deal with a few closed museums and parks, not a plane crash.
@somsai, “I don’t see what harm a shutdown would cause”
Think again.
First, you appear to have just picked a number out of the air with regard to the rate of ICE apprehensions; and in any case, just declaring such a figure “a lot” is meaningless statistically- a lot compared to what? Even 30,000 a month is a little less than 0.01% of the US population- meaning a decade of uncontrolled crossings would still basically be a rounding error in US demographics.
On the other hand, estimates are that, per week of a government shutdown like the one we had already, the rate of economic growth is cut by 0.13% on a quarterly basis (this is from the White House itself). That reduction cascades through the economy and creates billions of dollars of lost wealth for millions of Americans. This is the harm you are missing.
9
If you don't see what harm a shutdown would cause, you didn't pay attention for any of the 35 days of the shutdown in December/January. And setting aside your generally false notions about the saving habits of federal employees and your heartless conclusions about what should happen to them, do you agree that their children, their customers, their landlords, and their local business vendors should also suffer? Because when federal employees don't get paid, neither does anyone else they do business with. SMDH
1
This isn't progress, it is capitulating to an extortionist.
23
I believe we found, in the 35 day shut down, the breaking point comes when the airline industry becomes compromised.
If he continues with the shut down on Friday, all it will take is a strike, soft or hard. I believe flight attendants have already threatened to walk out? Any move along these lines will make short order of a shut down.
Since we know that now, it behooves congress to pass a continuous funding bill and stop shutting down the government as part of a negotiation strategy.
Not that Trump won’t pursue his insane wall idea by other means, it’s just that a shut down is not the power move it once was.
24
@Amelia
AOC doesn’t believe in airplanes so all is good.
This is Trump's Art of the Deal: pounce, beat, repeat until you get the deal you want. Why does Congress go for it? That's the question.
17
No DACA? No TPS? No additional money to address the problem at its roots in Central America? The deal the President offered a couple of weeks ago was better than this one. So disappointed.
8
@LLB I respectfully disagree. He offered temporary "solutions" to problems he caused in exchange for a permanent, inefficient, non-solution to a problem that could more effectively be addressed by applying funds differently.
9
Oh course Trump will sign on to this compromise. It's to his political benefit, that he did not get the $5.7 billion he was seeking. That is because he can now run for re-election on 'completing the wall'/'fully funding the wall'. Trump has a certain political genius for harping on issues, particularly illegal immigration, that split Democrats (and as NYT comments on that issue attest, Democrats are in fact quite conflicted between folks who are not fussed about 'open borders' and folks who have environmental concerns about unlimited US population growth, who are concerned that illegals drive down wages etc.). Indeed, if Democrats weren't split on this issue, Trump would find another. The Democratic nominee has to be someone who can co-opt these issues, and neutralize the divisiveness. A bitterly divided electorate will ensure Trump's re-election.
7
So Trump gets $1.3bn for 55 miles of fencing.
This falls short of the deal struck last year for US taxpayers to fund more fencing.
It falls an extremely long way short of the $20bn wall that Trump promised Mexico would pay for.
But Trump will tout this as a campaign promise fulfilled. He only has to convince his base.
3
Well, as compromises should, this one will make no one entirely happy. Each side will claim that it saved the country from the 'extreme' impulses of the other side; each will paint those impulses as ridiculous and claim victory over the opposition. Looks like a true compromise. I, being left of center, am not happy with the number of detention beds. So be it.
What continues to make me furious is Trump's stated intention (egged on by his policy team at Fox News) to simply ignore Congress and do what he wants anyway. IF he does, hopefully it will be tied up in court for the rest of his term.
As a Navy veteran I am especially outraged by his use of the military for political purposes and campaign symbolism for they are responding to a "crisis" which exists only in his fantasy world in order to satisfy his xenophobic demands and those of his followers.
128
any agreement must include removing trump's, just trump not future presidents', ability to divert money!
7
All eyes are on Trump as the possibility of another govt. shutdown looms - and that's exactly what he wants, indeed craves. For him it's not about responsible policymaking, or even about adequate government, let alone about the people in and out of government who stand to be grievously hurt if yet another shutdown ensues. Trump's priority is simple: is he being watched, feared, written about by the media? Is he the center of attention? Is his so-called base getting the message that their tough-guy president is hurting the rest of us? Yet the underlying situation is that we have no president, we just have a posturing nitwit taking up space that should be occupied by someone at least minimally qualified to be the President of the United States. As he likes to say, "Sad!"
41
"We're building a wall anyway [in spite of what the people want]" are the words of a tyrant. In ancient Rome all of the deeds of a tyrant were nullified. We need to impeach Gorsuch and Kavanaugh once we get rid of the tyrant Trump. Justice Roberts's assertion that there are no Republican or Democratic judges was as inane as his statement that we live in a post-racial society. The SCOTUS is so illegitimate at this point that it has come down to one man's conscience, a man with a demonstrably faulty vision of reality (or transparency (or both)). We have an illegitimate Supreme Court.
53
It’s a matter of time before a blue state ignores a SCOTUS opinion via token enforcement. That state will couch its rationale in Kavanaughesque language explaining that its action accedes to the decision.
5
In the end, technicalities aside, Trump got (some of) the money he needed. Now he will play the part of a winner. What a support material for his propaganda: "In the end, Congress will pay for MY wall". Unfortunately, his supporters are right: he won't lose a vote on that. Too bad for the world that the democrats capitulated. What is a majority for if not to block things like that and bring better options to the table?
6
Better options were brought to the table.
But we have a child for a president.
7
and if Trump doesn't sign, immediately get the Senate and House together and get the votes needed to over-ride his veto!! That simple.
12
Will Trump accept this compromise or decide that his ego is more important than The United States of America?
7
Normal and good business practice is to reduce "agreements in principle" to writing. As we have repeatedly seen over the past two years several of the deals, agreements or understandings Mr. Trump and/or executives negotiating on the administration's behalf have allegedly reached and announced have not been memorialized in concrete, written terms initialed by the parties and appear to be no more than figments of the negotiator's imagination or wishful thinking. Democrats, write it down and have it signed.
2
Who is running this government anyway? Congress is an equal arm of our government which passes legislation.
I didn't vote for the far right media, off the charts, talking heads Hannity, Coulter, and Limbaugh!
Time for our pretend President, Trump, to learn to read, and run our government like every real, prior President has done for the last 250+ years.
43
"lawmakers agreed to adhere to levels, set by a number of detention beds, established in the previous budget. That would fund 40,520 beds, a decrease of about 17 percent from current levels, which Immigration and Customs Enforcement reached in recent months only by surpassing its funding caps."
How does ICE get away with "surpassing funding caps"? If they can spend unbudgeted money on whatever they want, what's the point of arguing about wall funding?
8
Nancy cleaned his clock, again. He got nutt'n. Senator Graham said that his presidency would end if he caved on the wall. Will be fun to hear his commentary, and that of Rush and Laura and Sean.
36
Instead of holding a campaign rally on the border in which he resorted to his usual "lock her up" chanting aimed at Hillary Clinton, Trump should be working feverishly to get Mexico to pay for his wall project. That, after all, was the real promise he made about this subject. However, he has not even bothered to ask for the money over the past two years. Trump shut down the government once and he is threatening to do so again over taxpayer money for a wall that he promised taxpayers would not have to pay for. As it is, every dollar he demands is a dollar's worth of broken promises under the guise of some heroic effort (while watching television and trolling folks on Twitter) to redirect taxpayer resources where he said they would never have to go as a candidate. And so it is, at long last, that Nancy Reagan's old slogan has a legitimate purpose: "Just say no!"
47
I may have been a little impassioned in my previous letter, but that's what Trump brings out in people, on either side. Trump only cares for a win, no matter how small. His 1.4 for barriers, no walls, is good enough for him. After all, he'll have his name on the barriers. This is, of course, that the land owners don't take their complaints to court. The sad part are the beds, which most are filled with people that contribute to the American dream. Those poor folks may be deported for nothing more than entering the country looking for a better tomorrow, and they had that until Nov 8, 2016.
23
There’s too many beds, which amounts to a blank check to detain and breakup families and hardworking people.
This is blank check for Trumpism. The house must reject this proposal immediately. Trump and hate must be fought at every turn not succumbed to or enabled.
19
Well... when all is said and done, it's going to need Trump's signature, and he's going to need Coulter's permission. I don't see that happening.
My prediction is: another government shutdown, to make him look like he has the marbles to stand up to Pelosi; then he will cave again, and try to frame himself as the savior of the country for keeping the government open against the wishes of the evil Democrats who wish to destroy the USA.
His base will believe him; Congressional Republicans will swallow their embarrassment --- again --- and some of them might remember, for just a moment, what it was like back in the days when they were capable of feeling shame. A few may criticize him publicly in a couple of years when they decide not to run for re-election, so they can feel like they retired with their honor intact. And the country and government will resume business as usual.
Or maybe I'm just a cynic.
50
Hannity hates the proposal, several Democrats posting here aren't happy with giving Trump anything.
Sounds just a tad like compromise, which is overdue.
I still believe if the wall goes up, Trump could still win due to the fractiousness of the Democratic Party in choosing a nominee but Republicans would take heavy losses down-ticket.
8
@Mark The Republicans should take heavy losses. And Trump should not win, although the Rasmussen poll was scary yesterday when it was revealed. With all the turmoil of the Trump administration and all the failure and collusion he still comes up higher than he has been, after shutting down the government for nothing. What is wrong with so many Americans?
62
The Rasmussen poll is skewed to make him look good. other polls average 4-6 points lower. Still, your conclusion holds: it is disgusting that a third or more of American voters can support this cruel, corrupt, traitor.
1
I keep getting confused. Is it $1.4bn of new "barrier" or is part of that bill, like 2-400mn, for the new sections?
This may not look like much but it makes a world of difference. The former is (forgetting the type of barrier) 25% of what Trump wanted. The latter is 3-6%. One is giving a free billion to republicans. The other is mocking Trump.
So which is it?
3
1.375 Billion for barriers, no walls. That's all Trump wants. Even if he were to declare a national emergency things are going to go to court. So, who knows if the wall will ever be built as Trump may be out of office by then and all of his supporter will have nobody to chant to. They'll just be in their houses with a VHS (no less) yelling, Build That Wall, with their tattered MAGA hats on their heads, wanting to remember what they'll call, The Golden Days, They're day in the sun, as they drift into obscurity.
13
Trump can easily live with this compromise. All he has to do is declare that even the $1.35 billion will get things going in the right direction and that he will get the rest and finish that great wall. He won't lose one voter.
11
As a Trump supporter, I am proud of how hard the President has fought to keep his campaign promise. He got the wall started and I look forward for him to finish it. I look forward for him to detain and discourage illegal immigrants. Thank you Mr Trump.
17
@Qcell: It's fine to support the President keeping a campaign promise, but is that as far as your analysis goes? Just blind faith in the rightness of a campaign promise? Why do you think a wall or barrier is so important? This is a frustration I have with Trump supporters -- if you support him, then why? What independent thinking have you done to justify your support? Can you supply any facts or arguments beyond just chanting MAGA or other slogans?
12
@Qcell Well, in reality Trump hasn't actually "got the wall started". What is done so far has been repairs to 20 yo sections of the fencing in CA that Obama arranged. Now there IS a current plan from 2017 to build 33 miles of fencing in 15 segments in southern Texas. It only cuts through 3 wildlife areas and a State park and will displace 100 American families but other than that it's in a low traffic area so it won't really affect the immigrants or the drug runners, so that's OK then. They've been planning for 2 years so it should only take 2 more years and they'll start building this 33 miles of 15 un-connected segments of Trump's fence. So THEN you can say Trump "started" the fence. He should be playing golf every day by then.
13
As you will recall, his campaign promise was that Mexico would pay for the wall. Since that’s not happening the President didn’t keep his campaign promise. He has the ability to use smoke and mirrors like a magician, fogging up his supporters’ memories.
13
The Congressional deal that still accommodates Trump's border wall funding ransom demand even partially (from the initial $5.7 billion to $1.375 billion) is still succumbing to Trump's political blackmailing and coercive tactics, but never a negotiated deal as being publicised. Hopefully, the House Democrats under the able guidance of Nancy Pelocy, the Speaker, will see through the whole gameplan and call the bluff spun by Trump and actively aided by his Republican minions.
14
If Trump blocks this bi-partisan compromise, he takes ownership ownership of Shutdown 2.0. And if he invokes emergency powers for his fake and bigoted immigration emergency, he gives Democrats a tool to pummel Republicans with on a whole host of their favorite issues after 2020.
Pelosi owns the "President" again.
93
President Trump will now move additional troops to the border.
5
@Dr. John Better languishing at the border than fighting in some Trumped up war.
1
I for one am glad the art of compromise still has some place in Washington. Our system of government is designed so people have to come together to deliberate the issues and reach consenus. As long as each party tries to have it "their way" we will never move forward as a country. I am a Democrat, and might not agree with everything that Republicans say, but I am willing to meet in the middle to get things done for the betterment of the country, our representatives need to do the same.
28
Historically, Senator McConnell has supported shutting down the government to achieve his party's policy objectives--that is absurd. Limiting the amount of beds that can be used to house detained 'criminal aliens' will force ICE to prioritize the detention of illegal immigrants that may actually pose a threat to our country, unlike desperate women and children.
218
@Tony C Thank you.
1
@Tony C And will release thousands into the country, thousands that may not be the parents of the kids they have in tow, thousands that we cannot afford care for just because they choose to come?!!
If this deal passes, it will be the end of the Democrat party. I cannot overemphasis that point. Vote no on the final deal.
8
why? because they compromised? that is how a government should work. you meet in the middle. you have to see that you perspective on the world may differ from other people and they might be correct on some points to.
frankly, it's pretty arrogant to think that you are the only one that is right.
20
@mat
How is this a compromise? What did the Democrats get in exchange for the $1.375 B in wall funding? How does this deal advance the progressive agenda?
I agree with Patrick. If the Democrats support this deal I will stay home with 2020. What’s the use—Republicans win whether they are in the minority or majority.
3
@Juvenal How is it a compromise? Trump wanted 5.7 billion and is getting 1.3, which is what the democrats agreed to ages ago. Sounds like compromise to me.
There's a giant swath of center-leaning democrats and republicans and independents up for grabs, win them over and you win in 2020. Democrats have to look at the long game, this is one step.
9
It feels to me that with the election of Donald Trump we have now entered the Age of Cruelty, where victims of state sponsored terror who seek asylum here in the US are further victimized by supposedly "decent" people (Republicans) who actually despise them and believe them to be less than human.
This is truly the darkest of times I've ever experienced. Of these born again "patriots" I feel ashamed, deeply ashamed. and outraged and ANGRY.
297
Please explain what is so cruel about not enforcing our laws and allowing US citizens to go without food, shelter and healthcare so we can take care of people who are in our country illegally. I am waiting for this explanation from a rational being, if there any left here.
9
@Unhappy JD
The situation is far more desperate than anyone could imagine. So many Americans are destitute for allowing aliens to remain, even if they are productive. The world recoils in horror at the sad plight of US Citizens going without food, shelter and healthcare.
6
@Unhappy JD So you think republican lawmakers actually care about US citizens without food, shelter and healthcare? Instead of wasting money on a wall that's not going to solve the problem, instead of a tax break for the rich, instead of paying for multiple trips to Mara Lago, perhaps that money could be better spent for exactly what you say.
76
That Trump sure is a master negotiator! Shut down the government for a month, and he got even less than was being offered before the shut down. World class "Art of The Deal", for sure. No wonder he's been bankrupt so many times.
393
@Jim Brokaw Don’t forget, Trump didn’t even write The Art of the Deal.
10
@Jim Brokaw Wrong. You need to understand the concept of leverage.
@Rob Campbell
Do you understand the meaning of "political capital" and how it's different from leverage in a corporate/business setting?
11
As has been said and written many times, a much more effective way than walls and sweeps to disincentivize illegal migration to the U.S. is to enact and enforce mandatory e-verify, requiring employers and hiring agents to confirm the validity of social security numbers, with heavy fines for violations and ultimately prison time for repeat offenders. Until mandatory e-verify is adopted and enforced rigorously, both major political parties are engaging in nothing but hypocritical kabuki theater, each pandering to its perceived base.
32
Sounds like a good compromise. There's nothing wrong with Democrats building more fence where it needs to be built and makes sense. Also glad they dropped the "bed limits" proposal, which doesn't make sense. Hope the conference bill pass both houses, President Trump declares victory and signs it, and they can get to work on the REAL national emergencies INSIDE our borders.
63
@abigail49 ...and that sounds like a good idea. Trump is waiting to work on infrastructure.
2
@Rob Campbell
Why is he waiting? It could have started two years ago. Presidents of the past were capable of working on more than one issue at a time.
6
@abigail49 actually environmentally there is a great impact!
3
Bollard fencing is not a wall and Mexico will not pay for it, as Trump promised. $1.375 billion for a 200 mile stretch, as Trump wanted, isn't enough for a beaded curtain. So, the big question is: Will Trump sign the legislation after Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter check in?
25
It ultimately comes down to a cowardly cave in by Democrats, who after all the grandstanding of ‘no wall ever’ by Pelosi, basically are giving Trump 55 miles of the 200 miles wall. They must have argued forever about the right wording in these last hours and decided that the word barrier sounds more harmless, but a barrier it is a wall, Pelosi’s words can never be trusted again.
If Democrats cave in to an ordinary election gimmick and immediately call ‘the green deal’ an absolute no-no and Universal healthcare a non starter, why would anyone vote for Pelosi and her so-called proven unparalleled experience, the last election was a mirage with false promises.
It is time that all newly elected House members stand up and break what is a real wall around the Democratic establishment.
3
@Johan Debont Democracy is about compromise. Totally unrealistic to think they could reach a deal without giving something. It's less than Trump would have gotten way back when he agreed to a deal with Schumet & Pelosi and then reneged. We have to move forward and focus on other important things. Fair wages, health care and climate change anyone?
59
This is not a clean CR. Pres. Trump will have to reject this proposal if he believes its prohibition against building "wall barriers" blocks him from building the type of border-barriers he thinks he needs.
“… Ms. Roybal-Allard, whose Los Angeles-area district is 85 percent Hispanic …”
What percentage of the residents in her district are living here illegally?
If illegal immigrants were not counted when it was decided how to divvy up Congressional seats, California would have fewer seats.
It is no wonder that she and other Californian representatives want fewer illegal immigrants to be held in detention until their immigration hearings, and likely deportations. They do not want to lose their constituencies and their seats.
7
@ann " If illegal immigrants were not counted when it was decided how to divvy up Congressional seats, California would have fewer seats"
No basis in fact for this statement-- A "Trumpism" to be sure.
4
@ann These demographics are Info that anyone can check. Don't invent them.
1
@ann
That Constitution thingy says we count every single live person in the Census. Maybe there is a good reason for that.....I seem to recall the Founders were trying to make sure slaves were counted as 3/5’s of a live person when they wrote the silly thing.
1
Consider history:
2019 is the 30th anniversary of the Berlin wall coming down. (Before it came down, the determined and the creative found ways to get around or under the wall.) The political leaders saw the benefits of unity and led the country to its current status as one of the most powerful countries in Europe.
The Great Wall of China from hundreds of years ago now serves as a reminder of the region's warring past. China has long since moved on to building long bridges to other regions, and one massive Belt and Road & focusing on high tech and AI. The farsighted has moved from erecting barriers to promoting regional collaboration, and from physical to digital.
Does some people's obsession with wall and make America 'great' again sound coincidentally similar to China's ancient 'great' wall? Politically and ideologically, the left and right in America seems to heading in the direction of the old, divided East and West Germany.
Berlin and China worked on unity and moved on to create new futures. "Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
23
Sorry but the reunification of Germany was very different. There was a homogeneous population that was arbitrarily ripped apart by Soviet Russia in a post war power grab. It almost bankrupted West Germany and was very painful and caused huge dislocation on both sides. The situation is it the same here....
2
@Unhappy JD
+ Berlin Wall was to keep citizens trapped in Soviet East Germany. It was not West Germany trying to keep them out.
If we had political leaders who were able to think and to read, then we would hear how the President was reaching out to global leaders to come up with a comprehensive “life essentials” aid program to keep nations like Guatemala and Honduras from collapsing under the weight of climate change.
Instead of fighting over money for a medieval wall, our Congress members would be getting a group of nations to chip in to help struggling countries so their citizens could stay home. Mexico might not want to build a US border wall, but they might want to help their neighbors to the south.
How about cobbling together money for desalinization plants for Central America and a linked canal project so farmers can continue to farm as they have for thousands of years, even when the rains are poor?
Our political leaders are behaving like people who nail boards against their front door to keep a flood from getting in rather than working together to create a flood control channel for the whole community.
We are all in this together on this planet. If we ignore root causes, we are going to waste a lot of money and end up in a lot of misery.
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2018/10/drought-climate-change-force-guatemalans-migrate-to-us/
231
@Heather
Great points, thank you - I suggest a step farther: check out American history in central and South America. We enabled Battista in Cuba to create conditions ripe for Castro. Panama, El Salvador, Costa Rica ... Very few eluded the reach of the U.S. I do not say it was all negative, nor deny that some of these countries needed 'help'. But the overall cold war strategy was tragically simple: Any 'leader' who was 'anti communist' was to be embraced, supported, even those who ransacked their nations wealth and abused their citizens. This winning formula spread, so of course after the Iranian revolution the new leaders, just like Castro, did not like the U.S.
Will we ever learn ?
16
@Heather
In most of these countries it would be fruitless to "cobble money together" for aid purposes. These are countries whose governments are RUN by drug cartels and criminals. Many of those who are supposed to help their citizens - elected officials and police alike - are corrupted by money and demands of doing the bidding of the cartels else their own lives and those of their families will be lost. There is no easy answer to helping these unfortunate souls but pouring money in where it won't make it to those who need it just doesn't make sense either.
5
@Heather
While I agree that global warming might in many cases be the root cause of migration, there are definitely other contributory factors.
Somehow we need to approach a position where the regime in a developing country is judged on genuine measures of competence without constant reference to Trump's favourite question: "Is he on my side?"
Aid needs to start with trying to keep the birthrate down. This means help with education, but it also means not getting precious about whether it's OK to support direct birth control, mainly with condoms.
And on a less positive note, a desalination plant is not a great answer to a climate change issue, because it uses loads of power and so, on a global scale, can only make things worse.
4
A successful negotiation is one in which all parties feel that the deal does not benefit them as much as they desired but the deal is better than no deal.
Yes, the Trump Administration is not following the law on asylum seekers.
After 2020 all of this will change.
16
@Brad
After 2020 either trump will win and get his wall funding or a democrat will win and the wall will be funded as a sign of comity and bipartisanship by the incoming democratic president
1
These people for the most part are not eligible for asylum without grabbing kids and legal coaching from do-glider lawyers. Some are true refugees and we should save our resources for these folks.
Congratulations to Congress. This is how government should work — through hard-fought, yet respectful, compromise.
Let us hope hat the President does not try to block this positive step.
16
Interesting. Once again, as with the last 20 years, the move that might work as well or better than a Wall (-i.e. passing a Federal law to make E-Verify mandatory for ALL employers and ALL employees) appears to not even be on the table.
Same old story. As Chris Mathews explained live on the air during the MSNBC panel discussion late on election night in 2016, as the panel was discussing illegal immigration while watching Hillary go under, "...business wants the cheap labor and Democrats want the votes". Of course, Chris was correct. Both parties, for very different reasons, want to maintain a very leaky border.
Republicans still want cheap labor. Democrats want not only the current Hispanic vote, but the absolute bonanza somewhere in the future where 11 million new Democratic voters are created via a "path to the voting booth" amnesty.
17
You have a good point.
Call your representative, senators and the White House. Weekly or as frequently as you can until they get the message.
3
Funny that your boy Trump never managed to run checks on his own maids and groundskeepers.
45
As a former employer in AZ that always used e verify, unless there is greater surprise enforcement action, this will be a band aid on a gaping wound.
1
Like him or not, Trump gave a good state of the union speech that drew a clear division for 2020. Trump for Americans vs Democrats for illegal immigrants. Even people I know who despise Trump agreed he made some good points and expressed frustration that Democrats aren't connecting with Americans. There is a push for Pelosi and other Democrats to get this over with and start on issues that affect citizens. To give Democrats something for the 2020 platform.
14
Last I checked I’m an America and no he doesn’t connect with me at all. He doesn’t speak for me nor does he speak for the country. He speaks for himself and a minority of nationalists.
174
@Hellen "Even people I know who despise Trump agreed he made some good points..." I can see you've learned one of Trump's favorite tactics - to just throw out phrases like "I've been hearing..." or "People tell me..." when exaggerating or fabricating. Trump is for HIMSELF, not the American people. And those of us who still care about decency and how our society treats the less fortunate, we will push back against Trump and his cronies.
164
Name one of the good points, please. No points if your answer involves the Sudentenland in any way.
39
The threat of another government shutdown and the debate about immigration and border security are linked solely because Mr. Trump failed to get his wall through legislation (even with his party in power for the last two years) so he's turned to extortion, threatening the livelihoods of 800,000 government employees to get his wall funded. If Trump succeeds and Congress agrees to his demands, then he will use this shortcut around democracy to force through whatever policy he cannot legitimately pass every time a funding bill comes due.
68
Constitutional question here. If both chambres of the legislature pass this bill and the president vetoes it...the legislature can vote to override it? Fascinating opportunity for the Republicans, no?
9
@RDR
Very unlikely that 20 Republic Senators would vote with 47 Democrats to override his veto but it would be fun reading the tweet storm that followed such a vote.
3
Trump signs this, and then declares an emergency anyway to get all his wall money and waive the bed limitations. How long that is stayed depends only on the Supreme Court, and specifically Chief Justice Roberts. Unless, course, the GOP grows a spine and stands up to him. Good luck with that.
9
I predict our deal maker in chief will flip-flop at the last minute anyway.
But luckily, the fraud will never get his 'wall' and it certainly won't have a plaque to bear his name.
25
The NYT should refrain from applying spin (eg, the deal “appears to be a significant victory for Democrats”). You aren’t fooling us. What did the Republicans give in exchange for $1.375 B in physical wall funding? What progressive objective was achieved in this bill? Trump was stuck in a no-win situation and the Democrats bailed him out for free?
If the Democrats’ definition of victory is only partially granting the Republican wishlist, then the Democrats deserve to lose and Trump deserves 4 more years.
13
@Juvenal
"This is a fraction of the more than 200 miles of steel and concrete wall that Mr. Trump demanded -- and 10 miles less than negotiators agreed on last summer, before Democrats took control of the House."
-- From the article attached to this Comments Section
10
@Juvenal
What happened to helping the dreamers?
What did the dems achieve by allowing this?
What did the dems get in return for agreeing to some of trump's wall?
Doesn't compromise mean each side gaining something while also giving something up?
Are the dems returning back to the bad old days of them being spineless?
4
Yeah. Where's the DACA deal that was supposed to be part of the comprehensive negotiations touted 3 weeks ago as the reason to terminate the shut down and return to the negotiating table.
2
50,000 people in ICE slammers? That’s equivalent to half the population of Albany, the state capital of NY. Boggles the mind. And could we please stop calling these people criminals? The only ‘crime’ most of the detainees have committed is to seek asylum, which is not an illegal action. ‘Criminals’ is merely a slur used to justify the Government’s abuse. Shameful.
726
@Robbie
Shameful is the history of corruption and abuse in ICE and the Border Patrol and under-reported by the mainstream media.
20
@RobbieVery true but some of them became criminals by working illegally for Mr. Trump.
21
@Robbie You're right. It is the size of a small city, crossing the border each month. Have you ever bothered to do the math? There are 30 to 50 thousand apprehensions at the southern border every MONTH! The media will go on for weeks about how 800k federal workers will suffer from a skipped a paycheck, but say nothing about illegal immigrants half the size of the entire federal workforce claiming asylum at our border each year! Its lunacy! What country would put up with this? MILLIONS have walked across our border in the past decades. Don't you find it odd that the media completely does not report this? And dont you find it odd that you are called a racist at the mere opposition to it? And isn't it strange that walls are immoral but no one is calling to take down the existing walls? It is absolute lawlessness at the border.
4
they gave in. what a waste of resources. will make it difficult to vote for Democrats again
4
@xyz
Yes, Republicans gave in -- Trump is getting 10 miles less border fencing than was agreed to last summer.
7
Did they? How so? You do know we know you didn’t ever vote Dem, yes?
4
Can we stop wasting our time on this idoitic fear mongering now? Trump will declare victory by saying the Democrats want a "brown crime wave" to destroy "America". Good news folks!!! The people attempting to get asylum & immigrate to the US actually ARE from "America". They walked here 20,000 years ago.
10
This is why Democrats have been losing under Pelosi since 2010. The only reason we won the House in 2016 was because Trump is so bad, not that the Democrats were deserving.
Here we are back at square one.
2
@PATRICK
The Republicans held the House in 2016. Democrats won it in 2018.
13
The whole thing is mad. But the worst is the prospect that government shutdown threats (vs. clean CRs) will become a "new normal" in the legislative process. A new low for our democracy.
12
How is the wall going to work by the Rio Grande river? If the wall is on the US side (it can't be on the Mexican side), then illegal border jumpers will be on US soil before they need to get out their ladders to climb the wall. They can ask for asylum if they are captured.
The wall is a solution to the 2000 migration problem. Today, aliens are looking for the border patrol to turn themselves in, not running away. A wall will only work if its defenders are authorized to shoot to repel invaders. When Trump proposes that, the GOP will be massacred. I haven't put that past him yet, but I can't see that policy getting more than 20%GOP support.
7
Civil detention is supposed to be civil detention, not arrest or punishment. The problem is that the Trump Administration is using civil detention as punishment to deter Hispanics from seeking legal entry into the US. They are also intentionally abusing the administration of immigration and particularly the political asylum law in order to defeat the rule of law in this area. Think of it as a work slow down in labor relations, a type of illegal work stoppage used to get around a prohibition against strikes. Increasing the beds has only enabled the Trump Administrations illegal work slowdown.
246
@Bob Congress has had bed quotas for years. Nice to see people finally paying attention...
2
This is border militarization and Trump wins the shutdown after all.
20
No it is not.
29
@Robert How about we just let trump think he won?
3
@grump
This is not a game. Who cares who wins as long as the right thing is done.
3
Trump has been played. If he rejects this deal, the Congress will pass it with a veto proof majority; no Republican in Congress can handle being blamed for another shut-down. If he signs the deal, the radical right will vomit disdain on him and his administration.
The Republicans in the Senate will turn on Trump when they realize that their political fortunes are being squandered at a rate that they can never recover from; they will not get re-elected. He is a lame duck president now. The only thing he will be able to do is start another war.
Donald Trump has been the most incompetent, least capable President in my lifetime. I go back to Truman. My guess is that he is easily the worse president in our history.
537
Unfair for him. He is a true believer of MAGA and american first. 5.7 billion is not cheap but it will be worth it.
1
@Harry How can you compare Trump to Truman? Have you never seen Gary Sinise as HST in the biopic???
@Harry
Well said Harry. I only go back to Nixon in my lifetime but I agree that Donald Trump is the worst president in the history of this nation. His term cannot end soon enough.
15
I’d like to suggest that the “leftists,” baying at their own side do some negotiating in real life, when something real’s on the line.
You know...get in the room where it happens, walk out and get yelled at, then lecture.
5
@Robert - And the reason you think they don't is . . . ?
Zero dollars should be allocated for trumps stupid wall. Trump put Zero thought into boarder security, and that's exactly how much he should get for it.
The wall just sounded like a good gimmick to him, so he went all in on it.
Please tell trump that taxpayers don't want to pay for his poorly thought out ideas that he wants for personal political gain.
35
Trump doesn't care about the shutdoown because it doesn't have an immediate, personal affect on him.
15
The shutdown may effect him when he wants to go on a golfing vacation next weekend to Mar-A-Lago, and there are no air controllers. We can only pray that he says he doesn’t need them as he knows more than the air controllers do. Happy landing.
4
@Marcia - I don't know, Marcia. Rumor has it that his putting game since the shutdown is greatly improved . . .
1
Just like Europe we have failed states on our borders. A wall will not change that. President Trump likes to use Israel as an example where walls work. They do not have a wall. They have a fence that is guarded every mile. I know because my son was in the IDF guarding that border. Israel is not that much bigger than Rhode Island. What would happen if Canada became a failed state.
15
Unfortunately, the public perception of Democrats as protectors of illegal aliens and adversaries of law enforcement just got a boost. Not a good look for 2020. Wish my Democratic Party would go to the mattresses like this for legal U.S. citizens. Will you fight just as hard for Medicare for All or some version so all of us can have hospital "beds" when we need them and get the medicine the doctor prescribes?
20
I’m on Medicare now. You need to learn reality. If one has a stroke, the money you get for all rehab. (speech, physical, occupational) is only $2500. I have to pay a high premium to get that.
I have just spent $6200 out of my pocket for rehab if I want to be able to move. Medicare helped me the first part of 2018 until the money ran out. Then I paid. BTW I have a supplementary insurance plan that I also pay for. Alas, it only pays on claims
Medicare pays for.
12
Medicare does not have a benefits cap, and I hope you do well.
7
@Marcia So you're saying we need to improve Medicare? I'm all for that too! It should cover eye exams, eyeglasses, hearing aids and dentures, which are typical age-related health needs, and have a whole lot to do with staying independent, prevent falls and broken hips, eating a healthy diet, etc.
6
Trump wins the shutdown after all as democrats fork over more than a billion to militarize the border.
5
@grump No he did not "win" the shut down. He was demanding almost 6 billion for his Wall and he got less than was even being allocated in the deal he had in front of him in December.
8
The military is working way below its pay grade when Donald demands they install coiled razor wire. That stuff is lethal, so I guess they can pretend while stringing it that they are having hand to hand contact with ISIS. What a waste of their specialized training and time.
7
While waiting for the sports segment at the BBC, I’ve had the misfortune to catch a live patch of the Trump rally.
Glad to know that the chant is no longer Me-xi-co!!! but U! S! A!
Seems the deplorables have accepted that they’re going to pay for the wall after all.
41
We are supporting many of the deplorable, so we pay both for us and for them. And Trump gripes about welfare for new immigrants.
7
No, most Deplorables have so little money that they’re not going to be the ones paying anything for a wall. If anyone is going to get soaked, it will be those of us with college and graduate educations, successful careers and financial stability, who don’t resort to begging the president* to artificially save our jobs from the free market. We are the ones who will have to pay. The Deplorables will still get to spend their disposable incomes at the bar.
9
I am truly sorry that these immigrants, their families, and ancestors have created a failed state. But seeking better job opportunities are not grounds for amnesty. As per the UN 1951 Immigration Resolution.
13
"It still must pass the House and Senate, and secure Mr. Trump’s signature."
This is not true. Congress has the constitutional right to enact legislation over the president's veto, with a two-thirds majority in each house. A bi-partisan bill might command such majorities, especially if congress members wish their body to regain status as a co-equal branch. I explained how this could happen in a recent commentary:
"How Congress Could, But Probably Won't, Take Charge."
https://www.newsmax.com/paulfdelespinasse/congress-constitution-presidency/2019/01/02/id/896623/
13
Maybe I'm missing something here, and no doubt more information will come in soon and the article will be updated. But first this article says the following, without immediate explanation:
"The negotiators also agreed to reduce the number of migrants and undocumented immigrants who can be held in detention."
It's not clear from the passage how this reduction would work. But later in the article, we read about a debate on lowering the number of detention beds. This seems to be the only thing the above-quoted passage could refer to.
Also later in the article, we read in two different paragraphs that Democrats have agreed to waive the demand.
So if this is what it appears to be, let's call it what it is. It's not a "significant victory for Democrats," as the beginning of the article opines. It's throwing away $1.375 billion on something everyone knows is stupid, in exchange for... nothing concrete that the article identifies.
In other words, the Democrats are rewarding a hostage taker by paying 20-25% of his ransom. And they're doing this right after they broke that very same hostage taker and made him look terrible the first time he tried it. Buying 20-25% of something worthless is still (obviously) a waste of money, and paying 20-25% of a ransom still (obviously) encourages hostage taking.
The problem is, the Democrats have caved to the GOP so many times over the years that this is what many Democrats genuinely believe "significant victory" looks like.
7
@Bluelotus - I was wondering the same thing re the first part of your post.
The "hostage situation" metaphor is no more realistic than "running America like a business" is.
Democrats are running true to form; compromise is good.
1
Democrats need to get their act together and speak with one clear voice. They can't just press for no funding for a wall and then come back and begin to make additional demands. That's not how negotiations work. The number of beds needed to be part of the original discussion, not brought up at the last minutes. Democrats have yet to learn how to work as a majority party than enter into serious discussion over differences.
22
@Tab L. Uno I believe the number of beds was in fact part of the original deal. The Republicans brought it up at the last minute.
21
@Tab L. Uno
Read, watch, and learn the negotiation details that are coming out. The number of detention beds was ALWAYS part of this negotiation. It was NOT some surprise issue that Democrats brought up in the final days, though Republicans are saying it was.
49
Um, it WAS part of the original negotiated solution that would have passed both houses in December but which Trump trashed after Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh called him a whimp... The Democrats did not pull this out of thin air at the last minute.
46
Why ask Trump? Just consult Rush and Coulter directly.
415
@Charles Hannity has already shot it down. What higher authority could you want than him?
42
@Marcia Jerry Falwell Jr. is in direct communication with that Higher Power. Jesus has made it clear to him that it’s a sin to welcome strangers, love one’s neighbor, or take care of the poor and the persecuted.
18
@Marcia
I want Ann Coulter to approve it too!
OMG, what sort of a nation have we become? I have said in the past that ours was like the government in Hunger Games but we're worse than that already.
11
Well, we all know it needs to be run past little Stephen Miller to embed it with racist screeds before we call it "done", right?
153
Dead in the water, as it deserves. Declare the emergency and start impeding the pedestrian invasion.
11
@Peter yes, let the court cases commence. Let Trump also explain to the Republican senators why he usurped congressional powers to appropriate. Stealing from set budgets in governmental agencies and departments will be more than frowned upon. In the end Donald will have to pay for the wall himself as his hide will be tanned by the senators.
13
Numbers not yer strong suit, I take it.
1
@Peter
And die in court.
And probably in the Senate.
8
Why are Democrats willing to give 1.375 billion dollars for bollard fencing and waive the demand on bed numbers? I don't consider this negotiating or compromise when you get nothing in return.
58
@Eh I think the number was limited.
5
So, the Dreamers were dumped on the side of the road? These people deserve to have their fate settled.
73
$0 for a wall please. Taxpayer dollars have better places to be.
303
Jenny said "Taxpayer dollars have better places to be." i agree. the last major tax bill reduced taxes for Billionaires and raised taxes for the average taxpayer by 17%.
trump should pass another tax bill that double down on his last tax bill. give "bozo" (Trumps name not mine ) the keys to fort knox and have the average taxpayer pay for it.
@Jenny Agree wholeheartedly. Our nation has far more real needs.
1
@Jenny
Agreed.
Walls are easily defeated and it would be a waste of America's tax dollars to build walls.
Sadly Trump has a narcissistic need for building his wall because he believes it will fulfill his ridiculous campaign promise.
What Trump and his MAGA minions seem to have purposefully forgotten is that Trump promised Mexico would fund his wall. Where's Mexico's money in this issue?
So Trump already lied to his MAGA loyalists and America. But by Trump's egotistic word-smithing, he's merely created "alternative facts" by ignoring how Mexico said they would never fund a wall. And by word-smithing I mean Trump has told 7,000+ falsehoods where fact-checking showed Trump distorts the truth and/or outright lies.
2
Well, awaiting the approval of the Grandstander-in-Chief is a pretty big detail. Just weeks ago, we were at a standstill with McConnell shrugging that he wouldn't support a bill that Trump wouldn't sign.
16
So now he can claim victory on the wall issue on Fox, while continuing to round up people who have lived as Americans for decades - including those serving in our military - on technicalities, or nothing at all. This is a win??
43
Fix the immigration system which should have been done way before Trump. Just think if they did there job Trump would have never showed up to get the job done.
3
@Sean Mulligan
Republics controlled one or both houses of Congress with numbers OR filibusters for the last 24 years except for 7 months in 2009-2010.
3
It sounds like House Dems got nothing, while still allowing funding for a barrier that Trump will undoubtedly claim is his "wall".
12
@Brent Trump will claim a major victory like he always does when he actually loses his shirt. Dems have the upper hand but it is important they not overplay their hand.
38
@Dems got a decrease of $5.7 to $1.7 billion. trump’s latest demand for the wall. Republicans also are limited to around 40,000 detention beds when they asked for 52,000. The Dems have also made their best effort to head off a shutdown which will hurt millions of people, cost at least $3billion, more if it lasts longer. Worst of all it is a slap in the faces of federal workers and contractors who will struggle to survive.
Bottom line is that it does not matter if Trump signs this latest bill or not. He will definitely use Executive Orders to steal funds that congress appropriated to meet critical needs in government agencies/departments. Slush money? Maybe not as he could jeopardize the security of our soldiers by grabbing those funds to fulfill his campaign promise to his base ... a wall.
6
Well now, it's really about Government Security after all, not National Security. Am I right, or am I right?
4
Democrats never fought this hard for justice reform for American citizens but go all out to limit the arrest of illegal immigrants. In fact the leading democratic candidate for 2020 has done just the opposite. Democrats never fought this hard for single payer insurance but go all out for medical or other care for illegal immigrants.
This may play well in their insular bubble with the abolish ICE crowd but this is going to backfire. Voters may not vote Republican but they will sit out the election or give a closer look
at independent candidates. This is why Democrats fear Howard Schultz.
31
@Hellen Trump has made the wall his presidency and that is why. There are many more serious threats to American security and people aren’t going to let him waste any more money on this false crisis. His dishonesty is a disgrace. We deserve better.
113
Isn't it true that the prior deal offered for the shutdown and rejected by Trump, was for essentially this? $1.3B in additional fencing that matched current designs, plus misc other improvements to staffing and technology?
4
@Curbside
Yup, so the Democrats basically caved, giving trump a gift, that he's going to crow about like its a victory. Why didn't they just let him stew in his over reach? Why do we always play the care bear card? Why does this party constantly seize defeat from the jaws of victory?.....
There is a reason this clown became President, and we're all complicit in it. Don't meet him half way, or even a quarter of the way. Give him nothing...
31
Since this is the same as the prior deal passed by Congress, it is Trump who caved not the Dems.
57
@PJO not fair. Trump on the losing end of this deal.
6