I missed the photo of Amal Hussain, the starving 7-year-old girl from Yemen, when this paper published her frail frame in late October shortly before her death. As appalling as the death of a journalist is, upon seeing her photo I felt shame for focusing more attention on one adult male than the 1.8 million starving children suffering through this conflict without direct access to humanitarian aid.
10
Trump and Pompeo made this about whether the Crown Prince was personally involved in planning the murder.
The personal involvement of MBS is not the main issue; Which is that the government of the nation of Saudi Arabia acted to kill a journalist that was critical of that government.
America became America in a revolution based on the right to criticize any government, and the founders made it the very first of our Constitutional amendments because it is that important.
Trump has made plain what he thinks of the pillars of our democracy, our rights and how much he loves Saudi cash, and McConnell and the feckless GOP will bow to Trump once again as Trump bows to Saudi cash.
11
When was Khashogi elevated to the role of journalist at the WASHINGTON POST, how many reports did he author?
2
How could Jamal Khashoggi be so stupid as to voluntarily step onto Saudi property at the Consulate? He knew enough not to return to Saudi Arabia.
1
In anticipation of tomorrow's tweet storm from POTUS - The disclosure of the threat to use a bullet obviously excludes MBS as a possible suspect. He said he would have had Khashoggi shot, not throttled and dismembered. Nothing to see here folks... Move along.
Time for a hamberder?
1
MBS doesn‘t care for the thousands killed by his bombs in Yemen...including children....so why would he care about putting a bullet into the head of a dissident.. He is a killer.
5
The murder of Khashoggi should be condemned and thoroughly investigated, but it’s interesting to me how the attempted murder of an American citizen by the CIA is given absolutely no importance by the US government. When I reported that the CIA was trying to kill me to senator menendez in 2016, the Congress brought in a notorious liar, Michael Hayden, who reliably reassured the Congress that the CIA is full of patriots and our country is not a “banana republic.” Not eager to enforce its role of oversight where the CIA is concerned, Congress bought this malarkey hook line and sinker.
What hypocrisy we practice! We condemn the taking of khashoggi’s life by Saudi Arabia, but when murder is deployed for political ends here, the American government launches a vicious, determined coverup.
The truth will out yet and many heads will roll.
Another question is, what's Turkey going to do about this? Are they issuing an arrest warrant for MBS which might lead to his extradition? Or did they just make a big deal about the murder for some political gain later?
What's wrong with this world? This isn't how we were raised, y'all.
Or at least how I was raised.
3
RE: "the crown prince said, then he would go after Mr. Khashoggi “with a bullet,” according to the officials familiar with one of the intelligence reports,"
Are our own President's words, direct quotes, no longer suitable for the comments section to to reflect on the casual acceptability of violence to get what you want?
"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose any voters, okay? It's like incredible,"
“I’d like to punch him in the face, I’ll tell you.” “Get him out. Try not to hurt him. If you do, I’ll defend you in court, don’t worry about it.” “Part of the reason it takes so long is nobody wants to hurt each other anymore,” “The audience hit back. That’s what we need a little more of.” “If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks, although the Second Amendment people—maybe there is, I don’t know.”
“CNN is not my enemy, it is the enemy of the American People!”
6
---So, the Saudi Prince, MBS threatened violence against Mr. Khashoggi, previous to his eventual murder at the hands of Saudi Security forces...and...David Pecker, head of A.M.I., and known friend and ally of president trump, who has "lucrative business ties" with Saudi Arabia(A.M.I.), and has threatened to expose potentially embarrassing aspects of Jeff Bezos' personal life- the same Bezos, who, as owner of The Washington Post, was perceived as perhaps being behind exposés of A.M.I.'s relationship to the Kingdom, and also, the same WP that has written extensively about the president's support of MBS, stating that he believes MBS's claim of not being involved in Mr. Khashoggi's death, despite evidence of the contrary from US Intelligence services- if Bezos' WP continued to unfavorably cover A.M.I., and...perhaps, by extension, the president...What might be some of the factors behind this behavior, by A.M.I.? Is Packer, beyond protecting his own interests, doing the bidding of trump and the administration? It's certainly hard to know for sure, at this point, but I DO know something that might help clarify some of these questions.
Two words....TAX RETURNS!!!
8
Apparently M.B.S. reconsidered, deciding a bullet was far too merciful. Sorry, but is anyone confused about this still? M.B.S. sent an assassin squad to kill Khashoggi and chop him to bits with a bone saw, which is why we call him "Mister Bone Saw". Trump sees no problem with this sort of behavior, clearly, because while Congress is against helping M.B.S. wage war in Yemen, Trump is still on great terms with him. As is Jared, the son-in-law with no security clearance.
7
This is the same model used by two of The Donald's other BFF's.
Putin has had a number of his critics poisoned - KJU had his own relative poisoned.
This speaks volumes to the character of POTUS - the friends that he keeps are a peek into his soul.
7
We all know that Trump will never acknowledge this because he just doesn't care. He doesn't see people as human beings, he only sees dollar signs. Trump had openly encouraged violence against the media at his rallies and didn't even a knowledge a deadly mass shooting in the newsroom of a newspaper last year. He publicly abhors the media but, let's face it, he needs them to feed his ego and spread his lies and hatred to feed his hoodwinked and racist base.
3
Saying things in anger and frustration is not the same thing as acting upon those words.
@Linda Camacho . . . and then Kashoggi ends up dead. Go figure.
4
He does it in more subtle ways. He calls them “fake newsmakers “, tells lies, calls them names, prohibits coverage. That’s how Trump kills freedom of the press. Not as barbaric but just as deadly. That is why we continue to fight as the founders of this country did. That is why we have to hold his every word to the fire.
5
I'm seriously getting to the point where I can't watch or read the news anymore.
It's like having a front row seat to a non-stop vivisection.
NOT my president
10
Saudi has always been a questionable ally when one considers their religious rule. The 'Kingdom' has always struggled with the Wahhabi sect. They started exporting extremism decades ago. They do not treat women well, by my standards at least, and their goal has always been to keep the family rule. I'm not sure why people here use this latest evil (murder of Khashoggi) as if it's a first and the responsibility of Trump or the US to 'do something.' What about Europe and other countries? What should the US do? Obama went and kissed their hands, considered them an ally even though their history is not one of tolerance or even humanitarian actions. They've murdered many citizens over decades - why now, are we upset or surprised or expecting some action. Sanctions? War? Or do we just want another complaint to use against Trump? Hypocrites.
2
He'll do this again.
2
It’s probably too much to hope for any consequences or even a statement of concern from this administration. In the meantime, though, the greater society needs to seriously boycott, divest etc from SA. It’s as bad as South Africa in the 80s.
For example, last week you had most members of the PGA playing a brand new tour championship in Saudi Arabia. It’s disgusting. A lot of players said they “weren’t politicians” — well you could send a very strong message by boycotting based on human rights concerns.
5
I feel sorry for the innocent Saudi citizens, but why do business with them anymore? In Portland last year, a Saudi community college student (sociopathic loser) decided he was too important to stop behind a couple of cars that had stopped at a crosswalk. He sped around them and killed a teenage pedestrian. Then while he was awaiting his trial, the Saudi government actually arranged for him to leave the country illegally and flew him back to Saudi Arabia!! Unbelievable!!!
One of my friends taught English to Saudi college students and said it was a nightmare dealing with their pompous attitudes.
I remember when I bought my car, the salesman said something about how Saudi students will come and buy the most expensive cars and avoid some type of insurance that normal people would get because they’ll just buy another car if the first one gets trashed.
Not to stereotype, but we aren’t dealing with the best and brightest. It’s a bunch of spoiled rich kids who happen to come from a country with a lot of oil.
15
@MelWhy do business with them? GREED!
3
Think and Cry.
The president of the US and his son in law licking boots of a murderous Saudi Prince for money. In their privacy, amidst themselves, what do you think Saudis think of us? It's absolutely Disgraceful. Totally Disgusting.
For public consumption, Trump talks about Saudi purchases of American goods, though, mostly of defense items. But we also know what it means to his own businesses in terms of large scale room bookings in his hotels, and purchase of condos from him.
If he were doing all this as a private businessman, he'd still be looked down upon as a black sheep in his industry, As head of the US, he's absolutely the Pits.
6
The President and Kushner are co-conspirators in this crime. By knowing the truth and doing nothing, he has enabled MBS to get away with murder.
All the while, MBS and Putin joke about it and laugh at us.
15
Were our country not led by trump, and his weak, self interested republican enablers, we would be demanding the removal of the Prince from power, same as we've done for decades vs Cuba, Nicaragua, now Venezuela, etc. This passive, tacit approval by the current American regime - that itself lusts to squash all opposition media- is disgusting! Trump is NOT my president!!
11
I dunno, people. It's starting to sound like maybe MBK has Khashoggi killed and Donald gave him a pass on it because he's corrupt and greedy.
8
Can the Crown Prince be indicted here for the murder of an American journalist? If not here, then surely in Turkey where jurisdiction is clear?
6
Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman seems to think he somehow owns Saudi citizens abroad. According to the article: "In the conversation, Prince Mohammed said that if Mr. Khashoggi could not be enticed back to Saudi Arabia, then he should be returned by force."
This perception of ownership of another human being also seems to be the basis for the alleged kidnapping of Jayme Closs by Jake Thomas Patterson in Wisconsin. At some level the control dramas enacted by these two men are alike.
7
Certainly true, regardless who is in charge in Saudi Arabia, an evil kingdom since its creation by the British. SA has created or co-created and financed (with Qatar and United Arab Emirates) every extremist terrorist organization with blessings from both Republican and Democratic US presidents. From Al Qaeda to Boko Haram to Isis. They would not stop these type of activities until their rules are terminated.
6
I just watched -- with great interest -- the accompanying video with its analysis + re-construction of the killing of Jamal Khashoggi (RIP).
Here's my question: Why assemble such a big team to carry out such a complex murder plan?
Why not, instead, just have him bumped off more simply -- e.g. by a hitman or sniper in the street? or by something like a bomb planted in his car?
3
@Ess. They thought since it was concealed in the Embassy and they hacked him into manageable pieces they wouldn't discovered. That somehow Kashoggi just vanished. Powerful corrupt people like MBS live in their own fantasy world, and usually get away with thinks like this.
4
We're told the Saudi Arabia's a counterweight to Iran. Who is worse?
8
@Bob Saudi. Iran has more freedoms for women.
5
Trump (and by extension GOP) has sold our country to highest bidder.. And they all are operating together to steal our highest value - Morals. It takes years to build the values and trust; and takes few sleazy politicians like Mitch M, Paul Ryan and Con Don to sell it for few bucks.
Unless they're removed and put in jail; we will cease to exists as a western society and an America.
6
Saudi Arabia (it is a shame to call it Saudi Arabia, because Arabia does not belong to the family of Saud) is loaded with tons of petro dollars but no brains or decency. The brutal and heinous murder of Jamal Khashoggi, and weekly public beheadings and cutting of limbs in the Kingdom is a clear indication of their level of barbarism. This is an oppressively medieval absolute monarchy with extreme religious views who do not understand nor value freedom of opinion and the rule of law. I shudder when I think of the last moments of Mr Khashoggi's cruel and excruciating murder. These animals did not even leave a trace of his body.
16
I am glad to see that this horrendous act is still being investigated by the press even as our Republican "leaders" would like it to fade away. The Saudis -- who were described by someone as the Beverly Hillbillies of the middle east -- are a thuggish lot. It's a creepy world we are inhabiting right now and I hope that McConnell, DT, Kushner and all who support these thugs will be publicly exposed and humiliated as soon as possible. I can hardly wait.
11
You equate Saudi killers with “The Beverly Hillbillies,” and clearly you mean “hillbillies” and not the show or its characters. “Hillbilly” is an offensive slur. See, e.g., JD Vance, Hillbilly Elegy. cultural group’s plight to be abe very sad, but not his policy prescriptions or self-important tone). To use that word alone is shocking. You proceed to equate the American cultural group that you disparage with the brutal House of Saud, the Government of the Kingdom of Saudia Arabia, and its loyalists. You are culturally tone deaf, a “block head,” as Samuel Johnson might say, or downright malevolent. To be fair, I suspect you fall into the first category and probably dashed off your post without pausing to review it. I hope so at least. Returning to Mr. Vance’s book, Hillbilly Elegy, I finished reading it convinced that the Nation should do everything that we can to ameliorate the tragic plight (including poverty, physical and psychic disease, and emotional despair) of Appalachia’s residents and emigres. I do not agree, however, with Mr. Vance’s libertarian policy prescriptions. I blame the Obama administration for failing to aid these neglected people, but recognize his Republican opponents strove to block every Obama administration policy initiative they could. Republican House Whip Eric Cantor said exactly that when interviewed the evening after the Congressional leadership hosted President Obama for its traditional, post-Inauguration lunch in January 2008.
Murderers. The Saudis are not our friends and never have been. May God remember them for what they did.
12
@Mr Peabody
No one should forget that the majority of the 9/11 terrorists were Saudi nationals. This criminal regime has the blood of 3,000 innocent American on their hand. You are right, Saudi is not our friend, Mr. BoneSaw (MBS) is a friend of Donald and his son-in-law.
That is sad that no one inform Mr. Khashoggi about the imminent threat he faced.
11
Your not going to let a journalists murder stand in the way of a business opportunity are you? Wasn't there even a little bit of truth to the fact the Saudi's funded the 9-11 bombers if only inadvertently?
That nation has more money than they know what to with and a skewed view of religion as well, absolutely anything is possible and sanctioned with anyone that has dealings with them for the sheer fact those involved don't want to lose out on a business op. Who is the real loser?
5
I am slightly amused by the comments here today which suggest that the US reputation will be forever tarnished, and the US will never, ever be trusted again, because of Mr. Trump's position on the killing of Jamal Kashoggi.
My friends who process visas at Embassies around the world tell me that there has been no slowdown in the number of applicants for US citizenship. Nor has the USA been placed on any sort of "watchlist" by other powers.
We continue to be a beacon of hope to the rest of the world. And the US continues to work with allies and friends globally to advance our mutual security and economic interests.
That's because everyone understands that Mr. Trump does not represent America, and that in time, he too will pass from the scene.
3
The murder of Jamal Khashoggi will never go away as it highlights the real threat to writers and journalists at large.
In this phrase in the article, "Mr. Khashoggi’s articles and Twitter posts were tarnishing the crown prince’s image as a forward-thinking reformer," we must all remember that in fact Mr Khashoggi himself was a reformer, and if he spoke out against the brutal tactics of the Saudi regime he did so out of a concern for his country. If he did not care about his country, he would not have been so vociferous.
One cannot be an enlightened "forward thinking reformer" and murder and dismember your opposition. Those two concepts are diametrically opposed, in the most hideous way possible.
6
In Trump's eyes it's about MAGA for Trump; making America Great Again just for him and his cronies. The niceties of an international assassination don't concern him particularly since the act was committed against a species of human he despises; a journalist. Yes, the media can be a thorn in one's side. But without the media where would Trump be now? He'd be nothing more than one spoilt rich boy who doesn't understand how much he owes to the country he was born in.
3
Far more than Trump himself, this casts a particularly harsh spotlight on Jared Kushner, the anointed boy wonder who has staunchly supported the crown prince. One wonders how history will document and analyze the wildly inexperienced Kushner’s time as a senior adviser to his wildly unethical father-in-law, the President of the United States. It is simultaneously amazing and depressing that critical aspects of the foreign policy of this great country should be controlled to a great deal by a young man who’s only qualification is that he’s married to the daughter of the President.
303
@HK
Oh, I think we all know how history will document this. What a sad period of history for the US, well, except for about 30 to 40%, who know no better.
53
@HK
Yes. And a fake President at that. And his world view is to find investors to bail out the underwater Kushner real estate "empire".
Spoiled little rich-boys who have more power than understanding of what to do with it; MbS, Trump, Kushner, soooo many others. Wouldn't it be nice if those with established power required that their sons actually grew up and developed some wisdom, before they were allowed to play with the keys to the Kingdom?
47
@HK History has already given a pass to both Bush presidents for their service to saudi. Even to the extent they were not punished for 911
41
The amorous, infatuated feelings that Trump, Pence, Bolton and the GOP have for the prince and Saudi Arabia reveal the utter hypocrisy of their threats against Venezuela's Maduro.
If the Boltonites were really concerned about overthrowing murderous dictators and freeing oppressed countries, they'd be going after Saudi Arabia, which is far more a threat to world peace than Maduro and Venezuela.
Of course, Bolton has already admitted that getting rid of Maduro is intended to give American petroleum companies the ability to steal state oil from Venezuela.
3
Of all the reasons to despise Jared Kushner - and there are SO many reason - his bromance with this criminal is the worst. We kiss up to this regime because of oil, but I thought that we had broken free of those shackles - at least that was what we heard Tuesday night. When will someone hold them responsible for 9/11 and other acts of terrorism, not to mention the abuse of half its citizens (women)?
6
If socialist's get blame for Venezuela, then capitalism should get the blame for Saudi Arabia. Moreover, if the CIA is throwing a coup in Venezuela, why are we not doing the same in Saudi Arabia where there is a far more obvious threat and grievances to point to (9/11) and there is the same overt benefit from invading Venezuela (oil) as there would be to invading Saudi Arabia. One is a dictatorship that has attacked our country, beheads women, despises democracy, and has committed International Atrocities (Yemen, Khashoggi, terrorism). The other has done nothing to us, despite the fact that we have done plenty to them (we are doing to Venezuela what Saudi Arabia is doing to Yemen). Seems to me that the National Security Apparatus is broken.
Not to mention that there is a quite easy pretext for a coup in Saudi Arabia. The crown prince is clearly not the true born son in King Salman. I mean, he jailed his own mother for god's sake.
Why else jail your own mother and not let her see his daddy unless your scared what she'll tell your daddy.Everyone knows it. All you would have to do is tell King Salman, before he dies--and you could overthrow a brutal megalomaniacal dictator who is slaughtering innocent Muslim's by the millions and turning them further against the West.
The CIA has always been a soulless institution, but they are putting international security at risk, and in that way are no better than Trump, using totally unjust and incoherent policies that endanger us
3
I never realized until now that Trump was speaking metaphorically during the 2016 campaign when he said at his rallies, “I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody...and I wouldn’t lose any voters.”
Maybe the Saudi Embassy in Istanbul is on “Fifth Avenue?” Inquiring minds want to know. What a shameful time it must be to be a Trump-supporting Republican.
2
This is why I subscribe to the NY Times. Our government lies and is led by a mad man, so the Free Press is the only counter balance.
4
Even if the benefit of the doubt is given to MBS and he did not want to silence Khashoggi with a bullet, can anyone be expected to believe the people who surround the prince and know of his, shall we say, ability to hold a grudge would understand the royal gallows humor?
If half the reports on how this execution was carried out is true, the gang who committed the crime would not be described as a nuanced bunch of intellectuals.
1
Where is the consequence there has been none. Trump makes it clear he hands out golden tickets. No question the Prince got one.
I must say, this whole US-Saudi relationship has been a head-scratcher from the start. Even as a kid I wondered why Reagan (and later Bush of course and his incestuous relationship with the bin Laden family) was sidling up to them. It was explained to me this was a "the-enemy-of-your-enemy-is-your-friend" type arrangement. It's all about Iran, I was told. Still, with 'friends' like Saudi Arabia, I sometimes have trouble distinguishing them from our enemies. I often feel the same about Turkey especially since Erdogan took command.
Israel, on the other hand, has proven their friendship a thousand times over. Israel has run countless operations into every countryin the region up to no good, like the many bomb runs over Iranian nuclear facilites. What has Saudi Arabia done? Have they contributed one meaningful deterrent, other than allowing the U.S. air base in Riyadh? We are talking about a country that composes more than half the middle east, and just last year allowed their women to drive a car. That still doesn't allow its grown women to bare their faces. That still conducts public beheadings.
37
@Martin X
"What has Saudi Arabia done?"
You and millions of others will never know because you are not cleared for such information.
There is, however, ample information about Israeli-Saudi relations available on the internet. Do a search on "israel relationship with saudi arabia" and read, then read more. From those articles you can extrapolate.
4
Why won't the Saudis release the names of the people for whom they are seeking the death penalty? If justice is being carried out, what's with the secrecy? This isn't justice, rather, it's some kind of internationally-televised performance, a show.
As I former career intelligence officer with the USG, I am at once appalled and fascinated by the citations in today's story of the "conversations" that Crown Prince Mohammed is said to have had regarding Mr. Kashoggi.
Appalled because there was a time, not too long ago, that references to such intelligence reporting would never have seen the light of day owing to concerns about sources and methods.
Fascinated because it appears for all the world that Mr. Trump has managed to ignite a full-fledged political and personal insurrection on the part of elements of the US intelligence community against his presidency. (Its also possible of course that these leaks are coming from within the White House, which would suggest a more serious challenge to his rule.)
52
@Frank J Haydn
Why would you be surprised Frank? I'm not a former career intelligence officer and even I can see that it is obvious that Donald Trump is a very serious threat to America's National Security Interests, its Democracy, and its Rule of Law.
If Donald Trump is allowed to get away with the stuff that he has done, America will surely devolve into a banana republic.
As a patriot, wouldn't that concern you even more?
25
@Frank J Haydn .... Hope this insurrection occurs soon because this is all making Putin happy beyond his wildest dreams. Pawn takes another knight.
15
@Frank J Haydn
What a great State of the Union address last Tuesday.
Trump again in 2020!
Prince Jared's pal.
3
Pompeo and Trump had to know this. (And, likely Jared.) And seeing them continue to cover for MBS must be what led some to leak this to the Times. I applaud them. Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures.
6
We, no not we, the U.S. government sides with and supports terrorist regimes when they fight against our enemies or just because we get a good deal on oil. We the people, for the most part, support a just and moral way of life. Siding with or explaining away Saudi Arabia's crimes is a failing that the US of A will be ashamed of for years to come.
3
I will not use adjectives like horror, disgust etc. like so many others are using. I just want to know if this murderer will be held to account?
Up till now, I see him getting away with it. The news of the murder has subsided or drastically slowed down. We hear almost nothing on it, and I am glad that NYT has published this article.
When is this man going to be held to account? When is he going to he persona non grata everywhere? This is murder we are talking about.
9
Gee, I’m shocked. Shocked.
Cmon, with the trump-kushner crime family in power, this will continue. Supporting murderous tyrants.
We need a president who will enact policies that will put Saudi Arabia and Russia in their places... as third rate nations, and thwart their undue and overbearing influence in the world.
Sanctions.
4
Our government has no business doing any business, or even being allied with Saudi Arabia as long as that regime is headed by murderous thugs like MBS. We don't need their oil since Trump himself acknowledged we are now self-sufficient in it. We don't need to arm their genocidal war in Yemen. We don't need them to contain Iran. We don't need their disputes with Qatar or Canada. And we don't need the Sunni terrorism spawned by Wahhabism. Oh I forgot, the Saudis gave Trump a golden sword.
9
Killing a journalist causing trouble in a foreign country at a foreign media outlet is not an aberration, as the Yemeni radio journalist found out, when killed by a drone of a certain superpower.
2
That prince Salman, the Saudi 'boss', is an assassin, leaves no doubts whatsoever. As to why these United States keep supporting the unsupportable is incomprehensible, especially when the U.S. has the upper hand. Unless there are hidden vested interests by the current governmental mafia headed by Trump and Pompeo. The only rational, and ethical, way out is to suspend relations with Saudi Arabia unless, and until, there is a change of guard, and Salman is sent packing (by his own father, who knows best his unhinged son, an abusive monster ready and willing to kill at will...and with no apparent consequences). Justice demands we break our silence on this matter. Over and over.
4
To all the people, who are condemning this killing - your outrage isn't enough. It has to translate into action. You are loving the $2 gas at the pump, aren't you? That's the main reason why MBS is getting away from these and other heinous acts. Until you take corrective action against the gasoline import from SA into the US, you are aiding and abetting this dictatorship (and by proxy Trump).
2
Where is gas $2?
RE: “We are focused on uncovering the full truth and ensuring complete accountability.”
After this crack Saudi team finds the full truth of the Khashoggi murder maybe they can turn their attention to and find the full truth behind who really killed Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman and help out poor OJ who has been searching for the real killer for 25 years now.
1
Imagine the moment of terror that flashed through Khashoggi mind when he realized he had walked into a trap and what his gruesome fate would be.
His final outcome must have created gleeful laughter from Trump. Oh how many American journalists must be on his list to suffer a similar end, if only he could.
Our Intelligence community must recoil at Trumps lack of outrage at this incident. Trump reaction seems to be we cannot endanger our arm sales with Saudi Arabia over so trivial a matter.
When we learned of the predominately cast of Saudis in 9/11, Bush allowed many Saudi diplomats to leave our country.
What an unholy alliance Republicans have had over the years with this ugly and unholy Kingdom. It is the way they do business.
7
Trump's and Kushner's supposed friendship with MBS is more than a little curious.
Would you feel safe being friends with someone who could--and successfully did--order an assassination and dismemberment?
Chat with them, text them, have dinner with them? That wouldn't give you the creeps?
2
As his aide said about seemingly conclusive evidence to implicate the prince: "These efforts will prove futile.” With the president of the U.S. as an accessory after the fact how he lose?
The murderous inclinations of Mohammed bin Salman are of no interest to his good friend, Donald Trump, or to his very best buddy, Jared Kushner. Indeed, the love of the Saudi Crown Prince for violence endears him to both Trump and Kushner.
The Saudi money in their pockets, of course, is the frosting on the cake for both Trump and Kushner.
2
The Prince needs to be brought to justice. I hope the World Court can get involved. At the very least Saudi Arabia should be boycotted until justice is served.
2
It is interesting to note the scope and reach of our national intelligence agencies, who are consistently attacked and demeaned by Trump. If they can monitor the calls of the Saudi crown prince, what do they know of Trump's extensive communications on an unsecured phone? When will this information come out? It seems inevitable that payback time will come for Trump from the powerful agencies he seeks to undermine.
3
Trump and Pompeo made this about whether the Crown Prince was personally involved in planning the murder.
The personal involvement of MBS is not the main issue; Which is that the government of the nation of Saudi Arabia acted to kill a journalist that was critical of that government.
America became America in a revolution based on the right to criticize any government, and the founders made it the very first of our Constitutional amendments because it is that important.
Trump has made plain what he thinks of the pillars of our democracy, our rights and how much he loves Saudi cash, and McConnell and the feckless GOP will bow to Trump once again as Trump bows to Saudi cash.
2
I’m sure that Trump’s constant attacks on the Washington Post and it’s owner Jeff Bezos gave MBS another reason to murder Khashoggi. MBS probably thought that he was doing his buddy Trump a favor by attacking a Washington Post writer as well as getting rid of a critique of his own regime. At the very least he was assured that Trump would do nothing about the murder and in that assumption MBS was totally right.
4
Trump is not allowed to question MbS because those massive weapons contracts were the first part of Trump and Putin's agreement to start a new cold war and improve their nations' bottom lines selling arms to the rest of the world that will attempt to keep up.
For Trump it's twofold -- do what Putin wants and increase government revenue, anything to offset the massive debt we are incurring under Trump.
2
All attempts to apply our mores to the Middle East are simply silly. It's a different world with different rules to play by. The biggest surprise is the fact that Mr. Khashoggi ignored that notion and willingly walked into his own deathtrap. The 1st Amendment still applies here, but not so much in other countries. Ignore that thought at your own risk.
@Mike
Oh, yeah (sarcasm). Khashoggi was responsible for his own death because he walked into a Saudi consulate in Istanbul to secure needed documents for his impending marriage. Wow! Would you be so glib if this had happened to a high powered American business executive, military officer or government official? I think not.
There are no rules or mores, sir, that justify cold-blooded, premeditated murder. Khoshoggi's killing was a state ordered execution. MSB was responsible for this and all of the snark in the world (that means you Mike Pompeo!) can't change that. The damage that this administration has done to this country's reputation will never be completely undone.
2
The Saudi regime is one of the most evil on earth and it is profoundly disturbing that Mr Trump continues to favor this regime and Putin who also murders his political enemies in his own and foreign countries .
Saudi Arabia is the home of Wahibism a extreme religion that drives the evil of ISIS and Al Quaeda . Saudi Arabia funded the formation of the Taliban.
Saudis attacked us on 9/11 , all terrorists acts have been committed by Sunnis the predominant religion of the Saudis and none by Shias the religion of Iran.
Then we have the annhilation of innocent children and women in the Yemen.
President Trump boasts of beating ISIS in Iraq and Syria and is going to keep our troops in Iraq to watch Iran.
Does Mr Trump not understand that it was Iraq and Iran forces that reduced ISIS in Iraq .
Trumps blind obedience to Saudi Arabia is very concerning and it is clearly due to more than the sale of arms.
The Iran rulers are also a bad lot but the people of Iran are essentially good .
What we need to do is cut ties with Saudi Arabia completely , replace jobs with our Green Deal and build our energy resources with renewable energy .
We also need to rejoin our International partners in The Iran agreement , constrain their ability to get nuclear weapons and give hope to the Iranian people that they can rejoin the International community.
85
Aside from the horror of Khashoggi's murder and our current president being hypnotized by a glowing ball & sword dance (if not payments to his properties,) this points out one glaring thing to me:
if not for our journalists and free press this could be the United States. Let that sink in.
9
When will the people who support the BDS movement against Israel start proposing and supporting one against Saudi Arabia for their crimes against humanity? Over 50,000 Houthi killed not just directly with weapons but with starvation. Unknown number of Saudi citizens jailed and tortured. Suppression of women. Lack of freedom of religion.
8
There should be an expansion of the movement that includes Saudi Arabia. Agreed.
Both are violating human rights.
2
MBS is Trump with more power! Remember when Trump said he could shoot someone in the middle of 5th Avenue. MBS actually took it to another level by torturing dismembering and killing Mr. Khashoggi. We should have ended our relationship right after 9/11.
7
How can we as a nation think for one second that we are a so called Democracy and exceptional when we continually prop up brutal dictators and cause civil wars and coupe’s just so we get a friendly leader to US interests......oil for Chevron and Exxon-Mobil!
Solution to America’s brutal brand of fake Democracy(we are a corrupt plutocracy):
1) No billionaires allowed - period!
2) Repeal citizen’s United
3) Restore the voting rights act and stop Chief Justice Roberts from killing the right to vote for minorities in red states!
4) 90% tax on all income over $10 M, 99% tax on all income over $100 M, no offshore ban accounts allowed - period!
5) Restore a real military draft where rich whites serve on the front lines
6) Break up the monopolies and enforce anti-trust laws. Restore Glass- Steagall and bring back regional banking
7) Universal healthcare via Medicare for all modeled after the Canadian and German healthcare systems. A national umbrella with regional plans at least meeting the national law! Advanced regions can adopt more robust care plans if they choose.
8) Travel ban on Russia
5
@citizenUS....notchina
GET RID OF ALL SPECIAL INTEREST FUNDING.
Not just Citizen's United, that includes Unions, PACS of all kinds, foreign money etc Soros and Koch's. Publicly funded elections is the only way to end it all.
....life goes on. It's unfortunate, but true - leaders like Salman, Putin, Jong-un, Maduro, Assad and even President Xi Jinping's black jails - have been repressing and murdering their citizens for decades. We cannot control what other countries do to their citizens. A journalist was murdered with the approval of the the Saudi leader - it's not a first and won't be the last. We have murdered civilians - Obama ordered a drone strikes which killed 474 civilians (www.foreignpolicy.com) - that's been documented.
It's the world we live in. Sad but true.
1
If Saudi Arabia wants to maintain a modicum of credibility their illegitimate, unelected, so-called "king" Salmon, "the Kingfish", needs to replace the murderous Clown Prince with one of his other dozen or so kids who might have some intelligence and a clean track record.
Or maybe try something new and different, have Democratic Elections.
5
Fake president loves the evil people of the world ,..Putin, Duterte, Kim Jong-un, This Saudi crown murderer, China's Xi.
Anyone know why ?
Americans rejected the Trump/Pence ticket. They lost the election to Hillary Clinton by almost 3,000,000 ballots. Yet here he is, another republican loser, installed by the anti democratic electoral college, inserted into the oval office, against our will.
9
I have to be honest this obsession with Khashoggi is absolutely ridiculous. Of course this is a tragedy and it's terrible that MBS was able to order this act to be carried out and get away with it but honestly there's an actual war in Yemen going on where children are being bombed and starved. In the grand scheme of horrible things that the Saudi regime is doing this is just not that far up on the list but everyone in the media is obsessed with it because he's a journalist and one of their own. Meanwhile we forget about the war in Yemen and the US support for the Saudi Regime that continues to bomb school buses and hospitals. Stop obsessing about one journalist and cover actual stories.
1
It has to do with Trump. These are the “leaders” and “allies” Trump favors over countries like Germany and France. Trump’s support and admiration for this murderous, journalist-killing despot is despicable and un-American and quite chilling, because i think he is signaling what he would do here if left unchallenged. That is the story. And yes, people are interested and paying close attention.
2
@Alexander You're missing the point. In war there are two sides (at least) trying to kill each other. This creates uncertainty about who should be blamed. (The fact that you've made up your mind doesn't change this. Why should anyone accept you as an ultimate moral arbiter?)
This murder of an unarmed, peaceful journalist is utterly clear cut. And it shines a light on all the murderous activities of the evil Saudi royal family. Thus there's no reason not to use this murder to undermine them.
2
I am disappointed in the Administration's response to the evidence of Prince Mohammad's complicity in this murder. I am not surprised.
Khashoggi represented the search for truth engaged in by the press and the struggle for freedom by the oppressed. Prince Mohammad is the face of oppression and dissembling in Saudi Arabia, enabled by that government's wealth.
The White House chooses to ignore the evidence, to ignore the truth, and to support the oppression, all for the love of money and power.
7
“American intelligence analysts concluded that Prince Mohammed might not have meant the phrase literally — in other words, he did not necessarily mean to have Mr. Khashoggi shot — but more likely he used the phrase as a metaphor to emphasize that he had every intention of killing the journalist if he did not return to Saudi Arabia.”
Yes, he might not have meant have him shot literally. He might have just meant have him ambushed and strangled and then chopped up with a bone saw.
8
Not only do we ignore this to sell weapons to the Saudi's. We now know the weapons are killing women and children in Yemen.
Shame isn't great.
10
America’s light has dimmed considerably with this so-called president and his incompetent, corrupt, and borderline evil administration.
9
With synchronicity, this latest story of Saudi sordidness breaks at the same time we learn of their possible involvement behind the Bezos extortion and blackmail claim against AMI, the parent company behind the National Inquirer. If it turns out to be true, no one will be surprised.
The close ties behind AMI's David Pecker and the new Saudi Crown Prince have been well documented in the NYT. AMI's publication of a glossy brochure mag entitled "The New Kingdom" was pure National Inquirer propaganda.
Add to the mix the already documented involvement of Donald Trump with both parties, and you have a putrid mess!
I look forward to the coming investigations by Congress, particularly by House Intel Chair Adam Schiff, to uncovering the money trail behind all this.
Echoing Lindsey Graham, the U.S. has to make it clear to Saudi Arabia that it's not going to be business as usual, and that Mohammed Bin Salman is not acceptable as a future leader. He is beyond reckless, and must be held account.
4
'American intelligence analysts concluded that Prince Mohammed might not have meant the phrase literally — in other words, he did not necessarily mean to have Mr. Khashoggi shot — but more likely he used the phrase as a metaphor to emphasize that he had every intention of killing the journalist if he did not return to Saudi Arabia.'
The most likely scenario is this: the genial prince had finally concluded that since he had already won the hearts of Donald and Jared, he need not worry about what this pig was writing in foreign papers. He probably told his aids, 'Let the man rest in peace'.
As may be expected, not all of aids are Oxford-educated and, as such, probably poor in English. They probably interpreted the prince's musings as, 'Leave him in pieces'.
The rest is history.
It’s not surprising that Trump & Co.’s best friends in the world are murderous tyrants. As long as they stay at Trump hotels and buy American goods from Trump supporters, they can commit whatever crimes they wish to.
9
Do “Crimes Against Humanity” still exist??
3
Anyone that knows anything about the Middle East and particularly SA knows that nothing happens without the blessing of the royal family. So the denials have been a joke while a member of the free press was murdered. That is bad enough...but for our government to support this atrocity is a degradation of our values ( once again).
3
It is well accepted that it was a bunch of Saudi Arabians that financed, planned, and then flew planes Into the WTC and Pentagon.
Yet the Saudi’s never taken to task.
So the Donald isn’t alone in his enamor with the Saud’s
6
"the C.I.A. finished its first assessment about the operation, concluding that Prince Mohammed had ordered it."
The Saudis are lucky they have the right American president in office at the right time. And regardless of that the CIA finds he dismisses it. Putin is also lucky. Hopefully when the House panel gets hold of Trump's tax return the American people will see that there is a criminal sitting in the Oval Office.
1
Trump approved Kashoggi’s murder that much is true.
3
Nice going, Jared.
3
Yes, but what is a lowly journalist's life worth compared to investment in Kushner Properties, or permitting a Trumpolini Tower of fascism t stand proud in the nation whose princes financed 9/11, or investment revenue from the taxpayer-backed bombing contract against Yemeni civilians? Sheesh. Follow that money, it's all clear. Such nice people the American tsarist family is beholden to.
6
This story will intersect with the Jeff Bezos story and the final, fatal exposure of the KSA and Mohammed bin Salmon and their links directly to Trump and Kushner that ran their twisted course through David Pecker.
The nature of the information divulged by Bezos tonight opens the very real possibility that Trump either directly or through Kushner or another member of his immediate clique gained the Komprimat that Pecker attempted to wield through American Media. It is also more than likely that this occurred out of concern that Trump himself is now implicated in the murder/kidnapping/dismemberment of Khashoggi via his awareness of "MbS's vow" to dispose of the annoying journalist.
The reason that what would seem at first glance to be such outrageous speculations appear likely is that the nuclear risks being taken by AMI in embarking on its seeming suicide mission of interstate extortion and blackmail to silence the Washington Post through silencing Jeff Bezos (thereby voiding their recently gained immunity from prosecution by agreement with the SPO, could only be explained if the Saudis were holding the financial survival of David Pecker in the balance, which after their secret financing of the acquisition of Touch, Life & Style, Closer and 10 other titles from Bauer Media in June of last year.
You can't get more surreal or tacky than this lowly place that Trump, Prince Mohammed and Trump's very own Mr. Pecker has brought out nation.
3
It makes me so sad what has happened and how KSA refuses to demote MBS. As a nation is is time to demote the Bonesaw’s accomplices: Justa Killer and Deny Thedeath
Who doubts that MBS ordered this execution. Whether he issued the order a year ago or immediately before, it seems clear that he did it. So for Americans: Why does Trump condone this? Our "President" is clearly an accessory after the fact. Notch up one more crime for Emperor Donald the Dumb.
3
MBS is a vile human being, yet the Trumps love him. Even after the recent slaughter of children in Yemen and the butchering of a journalist.
That says as much about the Trump family as it says about him.
7
ok so we have the killer.Where is the punishment.
1
Gee what a surprise! Nope.Vicious killers enabled by Trump. Anyone surprised that the royal family and barbarian tribes that supporte Bin Laden and the 911 attacks, to keep him from creating attacks on their insane rule, would kill someone? No.
1
Despicable: Their prince and our king.
1
It's amazing that the Saudi Prince and Trump have something in common.
They both hate the news media.
1
We now know why Saudis wear picnic cloths as turbines: To Better Serve You
Saudi has long horrible history regarding civil rights, treatment of women, terrorism, and now this. We need to drop this creep MBS like a hot potato. No mercy, no exceptions, no tax dollars.
2
Live by the sword die by the sword.....different rules in SA
That Saudi “prince” is one totally sick person. No getting around that for sure.
1
The news is really confirmation for Trump and his cronies that one can shoot (or strangle and dismember) someone on 5th Ave and walk away from it without anyone even blinking an eye. The Trump supporters have ZERO, absolutely Zero concern about this. End abortion. Take all the lives you want to do that. We absolutely will not stand in your way.
1
The lack of action on this issue by the Administration and Republican Congress, and their lack of action on the Russian "meddling", (in fact even going so far as removing some sanctions on an Oligarch), when strong evidence is evident to anyone paying attention, is truly signaling the end of our democracy and standing in the world. Truly immoral and disgusting.
2
Sometimes, in order to avoid work, I play, "What Would I Do If I Were President."
First, I would cut Mr. Bone Saw and Saudi Arabia off.
We EXPORT oil. We don't need to import it from Saudi Arabia. So, no more oil from the rich, spoiled, criminal sheikhs.
Pressure our allies not to buy anything from Saudi Arabia.
Refuse to do business with Saudi Arabia until they have released women from wearing Burqua's, released all their political prisoners, and have proven that they will respect human rights - like not chopping people's heads off at soccer games mid-way through for speaking out against the Saudi's brutal dictatorship.
Get rid of MBS and his henchman. Put them all in jail for the murder of Jamal.
Isolate the country economically and politically until they are forced to come into the 20th century. (21st century too much to hope for.)
Refuse to allow any new Saudi students to come to the U.S. for schooling. The ones that are here can finish up their degrees, then go home. (In Oregon two Saudi male students raped two girls here. The Saudi embassy paid off their bail and helped them escape. No Saudis should be able to come to school unless their government agrees not to secretly ship these Saudi rapists out of the country.)
Deny all Saudis entrance to the US for work or play. Freeze the accounts of all Saudis with criminal or human rights ties.
Shut 'em down.
Yes, I like to play What Would I Do If I Were President...
sigh...
6
"Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi Arabia told a top aide in a conversation in 2017 that he would use “a bullet” on Jamal Khashoggi ... according to current and former American and foreign officials with direct knowledge of intelligence reports."
With multiple professional officials giving us the information, there are simply no more excuses for sweeping it under the rug.
Thanks NYT, for continuing to seek justice.
2
Do not forget the female Saudis who have been imprisoned, beaten, tortured, subjected to electrical shocks according to Amnesty International for the 'crime' of driving. Amnesty's report was issued in November, 2018.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/21/saudi-arabia-tortured-female-right-to-drive-activists-says-amnesty
8
It is important to Youtube search Hasan Minhaj's history of Saudi Arabia, especially his revealing that MbS's nick-name is Abu Bullet.
Remember, this is the episode S.A. demanded be deleted from Netflix.
3
Don’t be surprised if Trump has been collaborating with MBS to have Bezos assasinated too.
The 9//11 terrorists were Saudi.
1
Trump wants to steal Middle East oil, grab it from Saudi Arabia. Without Americans working on their military equipment, as they do, it should be over in a week. Their military is nothing but mercenaries and without the prospect of getting paid they'll abandon them.
As a bonus trump can default on all the loans he owes them.
So is the rogue killer theory out the window?
1
How can Kushner look in the mirror? How can Ivanka look at her husband befriended with a murder?
How can America have a president who calls a murder a “good friend”, and allies “enemies”?
8
No wonder Trump doesn't read his intelligence reports.
4
If our government and any other government can intercept our communications as a matter of standard operating procedure, especially in regard to "important people", why would anybody think that everything and anything we put on the internet, a phone call or any other communication would be private...like this response!
We now live in a world when from the day you are born to the day you die, your entire life will be recorded in some form or fashion.
Knowing this, generations will eventually become stricter, more moral and homagenized (what you did or did not do when you were 10 yrs old) will follow in your adult life till the day you die, (e.g. wore black face, lied or stole, or had inappropriate behavior either sexual or not,or said or did something that was recorded), it'll be fair game.
1
Imagine my surprise.
2
"What was more important, the president indicated, was that the kingdom had pledged hundreds of billions of dollars of investments in the United States, including $110 billion in arms purchased from Lockheed Martin, Boeing and other defense firms."
And it's supposed to be a good thing that they'll then turn around and use these things to kill innocent civilians in Yemen? Do we really want to profit as a nation through this type of slaughter?
First it was their role in 9-11, then their creation of Yemen's humanitarian crisis, and now the murder of a journalist. Mr. Khashoggi was a brave man to take on such a disgustingly ruthless family.
5
"...dinners at the homes of Hollywood moguls, meetings with tech titans..., talk about space travel with Richard Branson...a stop at Lockheed Martin....he made time for Eric Garcetti, the mayor of Los Angeles; Leon Panetta, the former defense secretary; and Oprah Winfrey....Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman of Saudi Arabia...cruised through California, buying up Four Seasons hotels in Los Angeles and San Francisco, promoting a new, modernist image for his conservative nation....
...the Saudis announced a deal with AMC to open the first movie theaters in the kingdom in decades, and reached pacts to open a Six Flags park...discussed cloud computing services at Google headquarters...met with Tim Cook, Apple’s chief executive.
The tour came after...the crown prince...consolidated his power at home by jailing...some of the country’s wealthiest businessmen, including members of the royal family. He has also been dogged by criticism from human rights activists for waging a war in Yemen...
But Prince Mohammed has been fully embraced by the Trump administration, which sees him as a reliable partner to push back on Iran...and for the most part his trip was not overshadowed by human rights concerns. In California, though, he met some dissenting voices and drew gatherings of protesters.
Mayor Garcetti was one of the few luminaries who met with the prince and then spoke out in public about Yemen and other human rights issues."
NYT, 4/7/18
That kind of money has friends in high places.
4
Trump turns his back on NATO while embracing the brutal acts of Putin, Kim Jong Un, and MBS? Two more years of this national disgrace of an administration.
3
This free ticket to do what ever they want to from the Saudis has to end. They and their subjects are not above the law here, and if this ever happens again they must be made an example of. If anyo of them commit murder, rape or any other felony, they must be held in prison without bail , and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. They are only two generations removed from nomadic, primal, bedouin, bandits living out of tents of the great desert, and must abide by the laws of the civilized world. I know that you cannot expect miracles in two generations, but they must learn how to live in a world of law and order if they want our true respect.
Money and power trump life. Can there be any doubt?
1
How many crimes, how many deaths, do the Saudis have to commit before our supposedly freedom loving, justice loving, government says "Enough!"?
Which is more evil: doing the deed, or condoning it?
2
Does anyone doubt that if the Saudis get away with this, that it will spur many such undemocratic regimes to kill even more journalists?
We either face facts and sever our connections with the murderous, undemocratic, antihuman and anti-woman Saudi Empire, or we watch our own country, at the highest levels, shrug and ignore human rights abuses here in our own country.
Hugh Massengill, Eugene Oregon
4
Why is anyone surprised. The man is a barbarian, enabled, supported, protected, weaponised and feted by the United States. Chopping up political opponents abroad is second nature to these people.
When will the United States finally bear at least a passing resemblance to the principles it purports to uphold?
4
Journalists are frequently killed in other parts of the world - many are politically linked. In India last year, Sandeep Sharma was killed for investigating the police's involvement in an illegal sand mining operation in Madhya Pradesh, an Indian state. Also in Madhya Pradesh was the great big Vyapam scam - where several members of the Madhya Pradesh government (including the states' education minister!) were involved in a cheating ring for medical and state government job entrance exams. It is estimated that almost 100 people (yes, 100) including the journalists who tried to write about it, witnesses and whistle-blowers, mysteriously had accidents, committed suicide or disappeared. According to the CPJ, 50 journalists have been killed in India since 1992, 21 of whom are suspected to have been killed by political groups. Should Trump be expected take a stand against India too?
1
Nothing surprises anyone about the USA and its stance in the world anymore. I think ISIS has done a pretty good job of exposing the "Land of Liberty", "Policeman of the world", "Leader of the Free World"; today the USA is just another country looking out for itself.
And Trump? What's to compare, we have our own version!
It is obvious that the United States and Saudi Arabia are both Mafia regimes. It doesn’t matter who is in power in either country and frankly what is laughable is the Democratic position as being holier than thou.
1
When the truth is published, and the money is followed, we will learn what we already know...
Donald Trump owes his economic life to foreigners.
We, the people, endured a perfect storm in 2016.
The primary system is broken, like our ethics.
Thank God for Chairman Adam Schiff.
3
This startling revelation results from "...an effort by intelligence agencies to find proof of who was responsible for Mr. Khashoggi’s death." Great to see that we've put Inspector Clouseau on this important job. Hopefully he can wrap it up faster than Mueller.
Several administrations have supported the Saudi government. The late president, George Bush, and his associates had a business relationship with the Saudi regime. It is a vile regime and exports a very vile religion throughout the region. Its religious beliefs should be condemned. It should be treated as an outcast and democracies should break diplomatic relations with it. Saudi Arabia funded 9/11.
5
Since when does US Intelligence release the contents of their ongoing work. Normally we can't know stuff because it would compromise spy craft yet with the Crown Prince, intelligence agencies just open up. Does anyone else find it amazing that the Turks had a microphone in the Saudi Embassy and they made it public even though they would lose the asset. Saudi Arabia is a terrible country but this attack seems to be uniquely politically motivated. With all of the Saudi history, why this case? Why now?
2
“Truth to power”. One can only hope that investigations continue until some American position is reached buy independent arms of our government outside the powers and influence of the Oval Office. Some facts are irrefutable. Mr Khashogg a Saudi government critici is dead dismembered and his body missing still. There was a botched coverup. The King at a minimum hasn’t demoted or censured the Prince. There is intel. We only get leaks. But in the end just what is penned here is enough for a very strong American response. It won’t come from the Oval Office. Our “president” does not take on powerful King’s, King’s apparent or dictators. I vote for Congress or the UN. I vote for independent best intel. Truth will be elusive on who done it, but it appears evidence is possible. How strong TBD. To all involved in the search, don’t give up. America is bigger than any smoke screen the Saudi’s can put up.
43
@Bob
A very strong American response will have to come from the Senate and House and be able to sustain a presidential veto. It is conceivable this could occur given that the first act of Congress in 2017 was to pass a bill / resolution that said the President may not unilaterally change American policy toward the Russians.
So now, Congress just has to do it again, but with legislation akin to a Magnitsky Act for journalists murdered and attacked by nation / state actors.
The report from the UN Raporteur indicates that a criminal trial will be based on circumstantial evidence since the Turkish intelligence that reveals the murder is off limits in a court of law; but given a civil procedure and a lower bar for rules of evidence, a judgment against the Saudi regime is in order immediately.
Saudi Arabia should be sanctioned and required to pay billions of dollars into a Defense of Journalism fund as a penance for violating the civil rights of journalist Khashoggi.
If a criminal conviction is achieved later, great, but don't expect such a thing.
4
@Bob ---Just as it is an imperative regarding Russia, a full disclosure of the president's- and those of his companies- financial involvements with, and obligations to, the Saudi Kingdom, must be disclosed, so that we see a more complete picture of the motivations behind actions by trump that are, at very least, immensely suspicious. There is a palpable stench emanating from the swamp. The...trump swamp.
6
And, Trump calls Iran barbaric and needs to be watched. MBS has shown his abilities to cause terrible harm to basically harmless people, the attacks on the men, women, and children of Yemen, and Khashoggi are just the higher profile atrocities. Who knows what lurks in the shadows.
10
Bin Salman kills people. Civilians. Anyone who displeases or threatens him. To gain more power.
Saudi and Yemeni civilians.
To exercise power over them, to consolidate power, in other words, for his own selfish reasons. Just like any serial killer--he gets something out of it.
The US needs to radically change course with Saudi Arabia until such time as Bin Salman is no longer in power. We cannot implicitly condone the injustices committed by him and his minions, not for arms deals, not for Jared Kushner's desire to please Netanyahu, not for oil.
The lack of outrage from the Trump administration is a stain on every individual in that administration.
7
@Sandra Campbell. And you think this just started when Trump became president?
1
Thank you New York Times for keeping this story alive.
5
Jared swears by him.
That’s enough reason to convict.
3
The fact that Trump would continue to offer support to MBS raises the question of how many American journalist murders this president would be willing to overlook.
1
Maybe someone should tell the Saudis not to use the OJ defense, "On Thursday evening, a Saudi official issued a statement saying: “We again deny any involvement on the part of the crown prince in the heinous murder of Jamal Khashoggi. The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is moving forward with its investigation and has already indicted a number of officials linked to the crime. We are focused on uncovering the full truth and ensuring complete accountability.”"
Are they going to start looking for the "murderer/s" in Turkey or in Saudi Arabia?
Trumps's likely response to any retributive justice for MBS would be "How much will it cost us?"
4
It has not escaped notice, particularly in Saudi Arabia, that bin Salman is A-ok with dispatching five of his most loyal subodinates with hardly a thought. Could there be a more vile betrayal of trusting one's boss? It also mirrors our President's understanding of loyalty (one-way, bottom up) and explains the affinity Trump has for such a loathsome criminal pretending to be a human.
7
I really struggle with why Khashoggi’s murder merits any expenditure by the US government. He wasn’t a citizen, and he wasn’t on US soil when he died. I really see this as a waste of tax dollars.
Brilliant.
This explains in much greater detail the sad story of this Saudi journalist. He should have known better than to enter the Lion's den.
1
I wonder how those who have been "indicted" are being treated - are they actually in "custody" and sitting in a Saudi prison? Imagine being one of the "players",having obeyed & done exactly as "ordered" and then after the news got out being completely abandoned / scape-goated and possibly facing a beheading in the near-future. Loyalty definitely pays......
4
Yes. Many of us do not need further proof than what has already been said along with a knowledge of how the Saudis operate.
Unfortunately, in Trump world there is no evidence which would be believed. Maybe - maybe - a video of the prince himself with a bloody chain saw might force Trump to grudgingly take some action, but short of that I expect nothing. Trump believes anyone who pets, pampers, and praises him, especially if they are rich and ostentatious, must be a good guy and his "friend." He wants to keep the "love" going, so they can do what they want with impunity. He will always look away and/or offer excuses.
4
Just another proof that the "foreign policy" under Trump and Pompeo is going in the wrong direction, a choice of tyrants, one which most Americans decry.
6
Absolutely nothing justifies the releasing of classified information thru the media. This is rampant throughout DC and all involved should be apprehended and punished to the fullest extent of the law.
And how else would we citizens keep our elected officials honest? Wait for The likes of Trump to be "transparent"?
1
I would have to agree with Senator Chris Murphy. Trump's ‘foreign policy garbage fire" is not making us safe. The Saudi Royal Family won't be in charge forever.
1
"... outrage around the world and among both parties in Washington, where senior lawmakers called for an investigation into who was responsible."
My oh my - what far reaching consequences all that outrage has produced. /s
Sill, there is all that money and the GOP and DJT are ALL about the dollars. If not military purchases then perhaps through other channels.
2
"American spy agencies are now sifting through years of the crown prince’s voice and text communications that the N.S.A. routinely intercepted and stored, much as the agency has long done for other top foreign officials, including close allies of the United States.
And the US is accusing Huawei of spying and stealing?
1
'Saudi Arabia has since begun criminal proceedings against 11 individuals involved in the operation. Prosecutors are seeking the death penalty for five of them.'
I hope that, if and when, these five are executed, the US will take them off its sanction list. I think it is very unkind to place sanctions on dead people - that is not the kind of people we are.
All I keep thinking about is the Saudi business investment conference and its roomful of business leaders giving him a standing ovation. What has the world come to?
4
This embrace of Saudi Prince bin Salman is never going to end as long as Trump is in office. He and his family are getting something, or plan to gain, from bin Salman, hence their support. Even in the face of strong evidence of bin Salman's direct hand in Khashoggi's murder, Trump's support did not waiver. We will have to have a new administration for this to change.
1
The governing cancer of our time must be cut out.
This is another sign of the need for the remaining civilized world to respond --- sit straight up --- and never forget where we need to redirect our determined efforts to rebuild --- truthfulness, honor, dignity and decency.
Millions upon millions will not remain silent, nor, will we forget.
How many have forgotten Franco?
3
"The Saudi government has denied that the young crown prince played any role in the killing"
It is not clear if the "young" is the prose of Mr. Mazzetti or the description of the Saudis.
It is time to stop with the "young" MBS, even if he is young by Saudi standards of rule and power. "Young" implies a capriciousness that will be tempered with maturity. MBS is 33 years old. He is an adult, fully grown and responsible. Alexander the Great, and MBS should not really be mentioned in the same sentence, had conquered a world by the time he died at that age. Hussein of Jordan ascended the throne at age 17. 33 is old enough to be responsible.
6
It would be hard to believe that the crown prince wasn't directly involved, or gave direct approval to, the assassination of Kashogi. It fits with everything we know about Saudi Arabia's governance and expectations. And also it's not surprising that any US administration would prefer to deny it - the benefits are greater than the negative press. Assassination is part of the playbook for many countries, regardless of minor consequences (including the US). But getting caught, that's another matter. It is surprising that there aren't significant consequences for a small country like Saudi Arabia...oh wait, they have oil and money, right?! And an interest in Trump's business?!
1
How ironical! The US admits it has all the wherewithal to spy on any nation and anyone including their autocratic friends using western equipment and is asking their allies to be worried about Huawei communication equipment without any proof that it helps China spying activities. I suppose US is worried that Huawei equipment may not allow the US to spy on their allies and their leaders any long. Some friends indeed.
1
How do you bring down a dictator? How can democracy and rule of law prevail? Then, when you get democracy, how can it flourish and not be overcome once again by dictatorship? There are countless examples. International pressures, even direct interventions, can come into play, but ultimately each separate country has to find its own way, sometimes repeatedly. Think Argentina (democracy today) or the Philippines (closer to dictatorship). Or Egypt (no democracy). Or Spain (democracy since Franco). Or Germany and Italy (democracies since WWII). Saudi Arabia looks like a dictatorship that isn't going away anytime soon.
1
The latest development in the most sordid Administration in our national history.
The evidence is overwhelming that Saudi Arabia planned to assassinate Jamal Khashoggi. MBS organized the hit, assembled the hit squad, and oversaw the planned execution.
There can be no doubt that high officials of the Trump regime were aware of the plot, and turned their collective backs on Khashoggi. After it went down, the President of the United States and the Secretary of State both dismissed the incident as inconsequential, not even bothering to listen to the audio recording of Khashoggi's last moments. (MSB's bro, Jared Kushner, has not been heard from). The United States of America didn't even issue a denunciation of the murder; not even that. And all we've gotten from Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is an assurance that he gave a stern talking to to MBS.
It is disgusting and disgraceful that our nation can't decry such a blatant act of murder. It is even more disgraceful that the Republican Congress (at the time) couldn't muster the courage or the votes to place sanctions on the medieval Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
There is no telling how widespread is the damage to our global reputation. But it will take years to repair.
370
@Paul Bernish
I'm glad I'm not the only who can add 2 plus 2. It took 20 some odd years for the truth to come out about the Gulf of Tonkin incident, I'll be dead in 20, but I can add 2 and 2. (Hint-Ross P's VP's book)
8
@Paul Bernish
Nikki Hall knows.
@Paul Bernish
Jared better watch his back but I don't think he is smart enough to do so.
4
This must be disappointing news for the White House, especially Trump's adviser, Jared Kushner, who said that the story about Jamal Khashoggi's murder would fade away and be forgotten. Wishful thinking on Kushner's part.
338
@Whole Grains You're right. However, do you really think anyone in the Trump Administration actually cares?
21
@Whole Grains what does this say about Kushner and his moral compass? His best buddy murdered an innocent man in cold blood, and all good ole Jared cares about is that the story will fade away.
13
@Whole Grains
In a perfect world, Jared Kushner will fade away and be forgotten.... With a possibility of following in the footsteps of his papa, with a stayover in a federal prison.
24
You see?? You see!!!?? It couldn't have been MBS- I call him MBS- because he only talked about using a gun on what'shisname. He never said anything about strangling him or chopping him up into little pieces! I told you, I'm a great judge of character. In fact no one's a better judge of character than me.
No collusion.
#realdonaldtrumpfakepresident
41
As we know Trump won't act citizens need to use BDS against the Saudi Arabian regime. Entertainers should not go to Saudi Arabia, academics should not cooperate with Saudi universities (especially the University of New Haven which arranges curriculum for a Saudi police college in Riyadh). U.S. colleges should not take money from the Saudi state that is meant to establish a layer of academics favorable to the kingdom.
25
Inequity and indignant emotion are commingling in people’s mind regarding the undetermined death. It might still be true that proper or thoroughbred investigation should have taken place. Above all, should we put a stop in the argument? It’s out of the US sovereignty. Was the deceased journalist an American citizen? We don’t have abundantly accurate or confirmed information about him or the reported vitriolic relationship between him and Saudi Arabia. Wasn’t the US intelligence informed by the Turkish informants at first instead of The Washington Post? We only heard of some innuendos. If it has been put on spotlight because of our president, we should focus pertaining to domestic issues.
People who do not acknowledge the details of this case are either head in the sand, or else as morally bankrupt as Trump and the prince.
22
The threat to kill Khashoggi is either to be taken literally or not. It is either a direct or an idle threat. Any English teacher can tell you that a threat to kill someone is not a metaphor. Raining cats and dogs is metaphor.
14
Our nation lacks a coherent centralized voice of reason. In the absence of a consciousness that might sway opinion, we find ourselves, as has been observed, rudderless.
7
"Tell your boss the deed has been done."...Mutreb
In a world of truth (rather than one Trump wants to create for us), we would know who the person at the other end of the line was and who his boss is.
The fact that we don't know this means that there is a cover up, and I will refuse to listen to the protestations of Trump, Pompeo, or any Saudi spokesman.
17
I don’t know who is more despicable, the Saudi man or our own Trump. Probably the latter. After all, the former comes from a brutal culture whereas Trump despite being given every opportunity to be a good citizen has gone totally rogue.
19
We need to end all diplomatic ties with this country. The regime is truly barbaric and brutalizes anyone who questions it. Those who are opposed to radical Islamic fundamentalism should be totally opposed to any sort of relationship with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.
23
This is our ally, and Iran is our enemy?
36
No, we have it all backwards. The Iranians are some of the most hospitable, kindest people that I have ever met in the Middle East. The average Iranian really does love Americans, they are not bashful about letting you know it when you are around them. An attack on Iran of any sort would be a grave error.
The Saudi's are just using us. They feel that they are above the law when they visit here, and can do as they please .We need to send a strong message to them that they need to follow our rule of law and criminal justice system.
Iran is a progressive Islamic state with progressive democratic values. It's woman subjects enjoy immense freedom and autonomy as opposed to the repressive state of Saudi Arabia. We should be closer friends with Iran and not Saudi Arabia.
3
It's sad that the American government is so dependent on the Saudis that they'd climb in bed with a guy like bin Salman. It's really an embarrassment for this country.
15
The irony here is that Erdogan of Turkey, a first-rate despot himself, played an essential role in bringing to light the crimes of the Saudi butchers, entirely for geopolitical reasons. I suspect, at some point, someone with a grudge will air Erdogan's dirty laundry internationally, to the delight of millions in Turkey.
107
@JB
BECAUSE this happened on Erdogan's soil, under Erdogan's watch, and without his knowledge.
If the Saudis tipped him off about what they planned on doing it would have occurred with his back turned and Kashoggi's "disappearance" would have been little more than a blip in the news we hear about.
Erdogan remains furious that no one told him, or had any knowledge that this was planned, going to happen, etc. He's an autocratic dictator who demands knowing everything and telling people nothing. That he was kept in the dark is the only reason he let the world know about this. That, and the fact that he's made no secret about attempting to reestablish Istanbul as the epicenter of the Sunni Muslim world, the status of which was lost when the Caliphate collapsed at the end of WW1 and the Muslim center of the world defacto reverted to Saudi Arabia.
6
"The National Security Agency and other American spy agencies are now sifting through years of the crown prince’s voice and text communications that the N.S.A. routinely intercepted and stored..."
Please share anything interesting with the Mueller team. Trump has gone to extraordinary lengths to ignore our intelligence agencies in this matter.
Maybe there is a reason, other than just his war on the Washington Post.
15
If anyone had made up a work of fiction with interlocking threads like about the Khashoggi murder, Jeff Bezos, the National Enquirer, catch-and-kill stories about trump's liaisons, Russia's infiltration of the Republican Party and the NRA, its interference in the election, crooked real-estate and money laundering deals around the world.....a publisher would have rejected it as just too much of a stretch on the imagination.
And nothing is ever far away from trump. If the Mueller report were to cover every one of these threads, it could extend to 5000 or more pages. Methinks that Toto is about to pull back the curtain.
34
Totally agree. Did you see Mitch McConnell’s sour face at SOTU Tuesday night? He knows, the jig is up soon. Time to power up the 25th Amendment.
You know what scares me the most? That other governments are intercepting the voice and text communications of US top officials. Just imagine what leverage they might hold over people who have trouble saying the right thing...!
27
We know they killed Khashoggi. 100% fact. Trumps denial of our intelligence agencies factual data is terribly dangerous. Even when they say a fact he says maybe - maybe not.” No we do know! About Isis and the Taliban we know, about Syria we know, about his obstruction of justice, we know! Insane. I’m surprised he haven’t said “some say the world is round, some flat. Who knows?.” It’s that crazy. He’s that crazy and the Saudis are a sad alliance with him. Quid pro quo diplomacy for Trump interests.
16
@KH Or...they could simply get a Twitter account...
It all boils down to these two questions: (1) how much money does Donald J. Trump, his family and affiliates, owe to the Saudi Royal family and its affiliates, and (2) how much money does Donald J. Trump, his family and affiliates, owe to Vladimir Putin and his affiliates?
173
Did not the same Saudis rescue Citibank a while ago? The US created the Saudi kingdom. The Saudis have been a moderating influence on oil prices for many years. The only way going against the Saudis would make sense is if the US invaded Venezuela and made it a state. Turn the Saudis against us and you are looking at a very rapid drop in living standards. Anyone for 10 dollar per gallon gas? Saudi Arabia owns the US and we gave our soveignity away long ago .
2
@Ann
It's so good to have you among the commenters day after day, always ready with the facts and links to relevant data. Thank you!
1
If we had doubts about it, we shouldn't anymore. TRUMP IS AMORAL! When news of Khashogghi's murder broke, we saw how grief-stricken he was-----but only by the thought of losing business with Saudi Arabia. Our President's aversion to confronting evil is encouraging and empowering despots. Trump's cowardly acquiescence endangers not only the US but the rest of the world as well. It is WAY past time to get tough with the Saudis.
65
A lesser but also lesser known outrage perpetrated by the Butchers in Riyad is their illegal transport home of their citizens charged with crimes in the US, including four notorious cases in Oregon and one in Ohio. The US government has been reluctant to even acknowledge its complicity in the scandal. Watch the migras and FBI deflect Sen Wyden's demands at the recent intelligence committee hearings.
29
Is there anything to link Kashoggi to the investigations of the Trump Whitehouse dance or knowledge about Trump campaign links to the Russian intrusion on American and British electoral politics? Might be have had some information threatening to the Trump/Putin/mid east geopolitical instabilities?
1
Why is there even a question? Of course MBS had Khashoggi murdered. What else would you expect from a regime bereft of any moral character whatsoever?
30
Why did this news not surprise me? It's pretty obvious who was being the murder of an American resident and contract employee of the Washington Post.
No surprise either that the president would take Saudi Arabia's lies over the truth.
Here we gave a president getting himself enmeshed in the thuggery of autocrats he admires. What's next? Watching Russia poison an enemy on soil and taking their side?
In my lifetime I've never watched a US president so totally cozy up to an autocratic regime to the point of being having it be the first country he officially visited.
Funny what money can do to you--thank God for Congressional oversight.
29
@ChristineMcM Let me rephrase your last sentiment...
--thank God for oversight of Democrats. Republicans have so far, shown no real interest in justice for Jamal Khashoggi
The Saudis are nothing if not pragmatic. Over the years various sons of Ibn Saud were pulled out of the line of succession for relatively minor transgressions. Muhammad, Nasr and Saad, to name but three, blotted their copybooks in some way and didn't make the cut. MBS's immediate predecessors as Crown Prince, Muqrun and Muhammad bin Nayef, were promoted to that position and then removed. There is a system, albeit opaque, for keeping the king in line, and there is no reason to suppose that it will not function again. I think it is possible that MBS will decide, at some point in the next six months, that he needs to spend more time with his family.
6
If there was any doubt of intent or of the Saudi Prince’s connection to this gruesome massacre, this conversation shuts the door on both counts. The only remaining question is, what will our government do about it? Given the Trump family’s financial entanglements with the Saudis, the answer is, probably nothing much, at least until Trump is removed from office or defeated in 2020, whichever occurs first.
16
The Saudis are poised to murder again to cover up the role played by its most senior official(s) by putting on trial "those repsonsible" for Kashoggi's murder -- with the intent of executing the very people who yes, may have been involved, but more importantly, also may know exactly how Prince Mohammed bin Salman was involved in this sordid affair.
The international community, led by the US, must call for the extradition of all accused to stand trial in Turkey or a neutral third state.
In no way can Saudi courts be trusted to render justice after the Saudi Kingdom has been caught in bare-faced lies to cover up Jamal Kashoggi's death.
31
It will of interest to see if the Democratic House will pursue the truth. Frankly I don't think so
2
“Saudi Arabia should not care about international reaction to how it handles its own citizens”
Saudi Arabia, or any country including the US, should not be killing journalists, period. Or humanitarian aid workers. Or civilians. We are conditioned to avoid the fact that every human being here on this planet is in fact a human being. I do not understand why anyone would be killed by any state outside of internationally agreed upon rules of engagement. But I don’t really understand why we insist upon having wars and occupations either, and I sure don’t understand why when we do, we don’t have the decency to even call war exactly what it is.
Human life predates government. Government exists to serve its people or to control its people. Surely there is gray area, in that citizens including those in the US trade limitless anarchistic freedom for protections from the state, like policing and defense.
If a state fears dissidents, it must fear its people and view them as a potential force and threat which must be subdued. No state is immune from criticism. Our current president threatens the press all the time. I hate it. Critical reporting serves the public. No state is infallible. I don’t know why putting a dissident to death would reassure me that my government is working in my best interest. I would feel more like a potential problem that must be controlled to maintain power. Human beings weren’t born to submit to control. It codifies inequality of members of our species.
7
Enough!!! This is the brutal tyrant, Trump's friend to US business, who WE are selling billions of dollars worth of military equipment to, as he methodically cons us with his reformer image... Yes, does sound just like Donald Trump. Hoping the UN and Congressional Dems keep up the fight on behalf of the rest of us, who hope to salvage our souls & our democracy from this darkness.
15
Has there ever been any serious doubt about the hand of the Bone Saw Sheikh in this gratuitously brutal assassination? Perhaps not in the self-serving responses from President Trump and Mike Pompeo, but nobody else in or outside the Saudi or American government harbors the slightest shadow of doubt.
15
From its origins as a new faith community, Islam had the overwhelming need to remain unified or risk reverting back to tribal fragmentation. The first schism over the question of succession nearly led to the collapse of the religion. Within Islam, fitna—strife or disagreement—was therefore seen as fundamentally destructive. Dissent was a form of betrayal; heresy as well. These individualistic impulses had to be suppressed to preserve the unity of the larger community. Those who wonder at the ferocity of Islamic punishments for dissent fail to grasp the threat that skepticism and critical thinking were believed to pose.
Ali, Ayaan Hirsi. Heretic (p. 89). Harper. Kindle Edition.
10
NO to Saudi Arabia. NO arms sales. NO diplomacy. Cut them off. War against Yemen; Stop It. Ray Sipe BTW Investigate Trump and Kushner; what roles did they play?
13
Since Mohammed bin Salman's ascension to power, and his appetites for "interrogation", torture and worse, the acronym MBS has taken on a second meaning: murder by Saudi Arabia.
His treachery is clear.
If - it is true that our collective conscience requires us to stand with our intelligence agencies' conclusions and apply enough diplomatic and economic pressure that the Saudi Government feels the consequences of this tyrant's behaviors -
Then - Jared Kushner and Donald Trump are each either devoid of conscience, are cowards or worse yet, admire the young prince.
8
It is truly disheartening to see United States chose expediency over principles, tyrants over oppressed, profits over people, lies over truth..again and again.
Perhaps power corrupts everyone and we are simply witnessing that US is no exception. I hope China's rise to superpower-dom will help US ground itself.
7
@John from Tel Aviv
You wrote, "That 'prince' will not hesitate from killing milions if he would grasp a chance of getting away with it and some vague notion of it being beneficial to him."
He is already doing that in Yemen. And the U.S. is supplying him with weapons, refueling and directing his bombers, etc
25
So the Prince had Khashoggi killed. Shocking, no, this is what happens when freedom does not ring loudly. A world where a child of oil decides who can live or die, who can be wealthy, who can speak or not speak. Who gave him this power -- "oil" who benefited from the "oil" and his chosen tribes & the west. Now the monster created is the one we must live with -- no. It is up to our children of freedom to make "oil" so insignificant that this prince of oil must invest in his people not his ego. Let freedom ring loudly...
6
there was never really any doubt. trump and the saudis fake newsed this to force people to get the evidence, which required time and took the steam out of the brouhaha and outrage. that approach is pure trump. the saudis got away with murder thanks to trump.
6
How impressive! the murder of a journalist generated 'weeks' of outrage. And the good prince simply out waited the critics and what's happened to him or his regime? Not much as far as I can tell. then anyone expecting much was wishful thinking. The most important thing is our world is money. comparatively speaking little else matters.
131
@Roger H. Werner I fixed your comment for you: The most important thing in Trump's world is money.
6
We have Mike Pompeo, in an Orwellian moment, telling a reporter who asked him if he intended to take any action on the Khashoggi murder, "You should be careful about the facts that are out there. Not all of them reflect the American understanding of what took place."
It strikes me that that statement is likely factually incorrect. American intelligence agencies almost certainly know the truth about what occurred. Based on the limited disclosures that have been publicly released, it is reasonable to conclude that MBS did order the murder of Khashoggi.
Americans understand that. A more accurate assessment is that the administration is deliberately failing to acknowledge the truth, proceed accordingly, and is crafting a narrative on behalf of MBS that allows him to get away with murder. It's purely political as dictated by Donald.
This is a tragedy. The Senate must take action and at a minimum, force the administration to impose the sanctions allowed under the Magnitsky Act. And they should make sure Jared, who should not have any security clearance stays off of the phone with his pal MBS.
263
@NJLatelifemom
Trump and his administration are taking the immoral high ground.
5
Would there be a need to align with Saudi interests if America were not so heavily invested in cheap oil? Many in the world pay higher prices for petrol; perhaps it's time for Americans to embrace higher oil prices as a step toward equality and management of climate change.
45
10 dollar per gallon gas would help. Invading Venezuela and Mexico and annexing them to the US as was done in 1848 with Texas and California would solve it and provide for the millions of poor Central American refugees the US has absorbed over the years. Obviously the citizens in these countries would prefer being in the US.
@M But think of all the americans who died for our cheap oil.
@M: The US is now the world's largest producer of oil. We don't need the Saudi's oil anymore. We are awash in oil and natural gas! But.... the corporations producing armaments are desperate to maintain their markets. And trump loves the Saudis....or their $$$$$, at least!
2
Turkey is in the driver's seat here. Prince Mohammed has too much power over the Republicans for the US to sanction him. Turkey has the authority to indict Prince Mohammed. There seems to be enough circumstantial evidence to do so. But Turkey's interest is probably just to maintain leverage over the Prince by keeping the threat open.
17
@tebtebm Heaven forfend the GOP do the right thing!
NYT, the public needs a detailed analysis of all business relationships between members of the Trump family/administration and the Soudi royalty/government. Our inaction is shameful, and apparently our leaders must be shamed into acting.
192
@DaWill Why stop at Trump? Obviously the Bushes were in the Saudi's pockets as well but very few politicians of either party have stood up to Saudi Arabia. When 15 of the 19 911 terrorists were Saudi the US immediately retaliated against Afghanistan and then Iraq that should tell you something. It seems pretty clear that the US government has been bought and paid for.
36
@DaWill they couldnt be shamed into reveling how total the house of saud's control over the house of bush has been.
The Bush presidents each fought a war against SAudi's #1 enemy Saddam. We are still paying for the last
15
@DaWill
Why? I could care less if Saudi Arabia killed their entire press corps on TV. How is that relevant to US policy?
Deny. Lie. Deny. Lie. They're using the Trump playbook, which is not surprising with Jared Kushner in a featured role for both of these immoral and undemocratic regimes.
82
This is not surprising and backs up the mounting evidence this was a state-sponsored hit by Saudi government assassins sent to Turkey on private planes. Trump has not fired a diplomatic bullet in return, placing trade above human rights. If America supports loathsome autocratic tyrannies without any shame or consequence, I fear the free world stands for nothing. It too has become ensnared in unimaginable capitalist wealth at any cost, unable to free itself from the soothing nectars of oil, superwealth and power. The US cannot just watch people like MBS eradicate their own inconvenient truths unchallenged, in flagrant breaches of international law, in a sovereign Embassy. Freedom of speech is a fundamental human right, unless of course you assume the President still believes the press and journalists to be Orwell’s “enemy of the people”? MBS is a vile monster and to enjoy the protection of the USA, diplomatically, is repugnant.
57
@The Oculist "America supports loathsome autocratic tyrannies without any shame or consequence" is correct.
1
@The Oculist Don't worry we have been doing it since the end of WWII. The presidents were just able to sell it more convincingly than clown boy.
We placed the Shah along with the brits in 53
Reagan took Saddam off the terror states list in 82 and armed him
There's greece, viet nam, almost every latin american nation, the list is impressive. We never learn because our citizens are stupid. That is not an insult, that is an assessment based upon this repetition
1
GOP Senators, though conservative, have families and loved ones. Rather than explain a repugnant vote against the upcoming House bill, they will at last repudiate the President. Who knows where they will stop?
5
I wasn’t going to comment but then I remembered the promise I made to myself to not forget about Mr. Khashoggi’s brutal murder and the savage MBS. Let’s continue airing the sordid princes’ crimes.
129
@Grace Let's continue airing the Kushner real estate debt and submission to the savage MBS as well.
24
Khashoggi was just the tip of the iceberg in that corner of the world. MBS probably has someone murdered every day.
Big reform, they let women drive now, if the woman has the permission of her husband or son.
35
It is not just the lack of respect to this one man and the horrible way that he was murdered that matters.
At a time when we are all at risk, all corners of the world letting democracy slip away, treaty after treaty broken, murderous dictators praised as 'strong', and climate change happening before our eyes but still denied......
We need reporters of truth more than ever. But, when the strongest country in the world signals indeference to their safety, how will they be able to do their jobs?
This betrayal of one of our most important institution, freedom of the press, should be enough to demand a new administration!
434
@Maria
Your comment is an excellent, big picture statement about why this matters. Well said. Thank you!
26
@Maria
"We need reporters of truth more than ever. But, when the strongest country in the world signals indeference to their safety, how will they be able to do their jobs?"
Great question: how? Journalists need to feel safe and secure even when reporting on terrible deeds, human rights violations, etc. But when monsters act with impunity, safety is just a meaningless abstraction.
A strong international reaction, led by the UN Human Rights Commission, combined with action from the EU and even the US Congress is all we can hope for.
But I think we need to distinguish getting criminal justice against the bad actors and getting civil justice for human rights violations against journalism.
Civil justice can look like the Saudi's paying a significantly large fine that will feed a fund that then finances security operations for journalists doing dangerous work, and serve as a counter force against the acts of impunity carried out by bad state actors.
Let's ask for this now, before we forget.
5
But, but, the Saudis paid for 500 Trump hotel rooms within a month of the Inauguration. So we're all good, right?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/saudi-funded-lobbyist-paid-for-500-rooms-at-trumps-hotel-after-2016-election/2018/12/05/29603a64-f417-11e8-bc79-68604ed88993_story.html?utm_term=.cdd93c2a6081
115
The question, we need to ask, is our government has been supporting and abeiting these bloody dictators for the last 100 years, is it time to stop it? Let’s face it, it was only for money, oil and these days to support israel, so saudis and israelies can attack and destroy iran. Is this in usa interest? While we preach human rights to others with a straight face, we support killing of babies, civilians in yemen with weapons. Is this what freedom is about? Forefathers created a country where liberty and happiness and equality for all that were the principles and look at us now or government of usa, it is an empire with no shame, pretentiousness of respecting human rights all over the world. It is time to come to terms that government has become an empire. Using lower middle class families and their children to fight wars while elites enjoy parties, travel. Where in the world you have correspondents, newspaper people hang out with president, politicians and have a dinner party with them? Arent they supposed to be the check and balances? Instead they become friends with politicians and enjoy the benefits. State department also became a toy in the hands of these small group of ivy school emotionless robots with no empathy towards fellow human beings. And most do not know what they are doing except follow the line. Time for a change.
70
"The Saudi government has denied that the young crown prince played any role in the killing..."
the "young crown prince" has a clear innocent ring to it
don't get why a 33 yo man is referred to as such
when his many actions in that role don't stack up
as clear, innocent or guileless.
96
But Pompeo was amused by the Prince and Trump and Jared think of him as a friend.
I still feel so sorry for Khashoggi’s fiancé, waiting for him outside to come out......
229
@MIMA Which raises the question: Why did Khashoggi feel it was safe to enter a Saudi Embassy/consulate which is, in effect, Saudi Arabia?
Tump (“...maybe he did it, maybe he didn’t.”) and Jared Kushner’s guy in the Middle East; how far we as a nation have fallen off the track.
217
@Bob Newman. We the people have allowed this....we have allowed radical religious groups and big dirty money to corrupt our govt....we are "friends" w/ 3rd world dictatorships that do not respect the rights of people or the environment. We have allowed this and we are the ones that have to rectify our situation....get rid of dark $ and those criminals who now squat in our Whitehouse and those cheap anti-American political hacks & lackeys who while on our dime continue to work against the best interests of the American people.
4
People say Trump is not evil even though he does bad things, because he does not directly aim to do evil, but is merely self-serving.
What gives the lie to this viewpoint is that Trump loves evil men.
And, as Machiavelli said: judge the prince by his friends.
Because Trump loves the crown prince, he himself is evil.
QED
286
@Iced Tea-party You're on the right track, the truth is that there is no "good" or "evil." Boiled down to their essence, good is selfless and evil is selfish. All of Trumps actions are selfish, so he is therefore "evil." This is why we imprison those that kill for their own purposes and give medals to those that kill for our country's purpose... even when that purpose is contrary to the will of the people, the act is still "selfless" and therefore good.
7
@Iced Tea-party I think you totally misinterpret Trump.
If, tomorrow, MbS admitted to ordering the killing of Khashoggi, Trump would say "I suspected that all along; MSB is a ruthless guy." End of discussion.
4
@A
Of course he would, how does that alter his moral standing?
2
Kushner's BFF. Anyone surprised?
131
MBS is the one who needs to wear a veil...
19
Trump ally and role model!!
18
Saudi Arabia is a criminal, tyrannical state that the Trump administration is not confronting. They have violated US laws when the illegally whisked away Saudi students in Oregon for rape, first degree manslaughter and child pornography just before their trials.
https://expo.oregonlive.com/news/g66l-2019/01/d73efd44ce8523/saudis-suspected-of-illegally-helping-students-facing-prosecution-in-us-read-the-oregonians-coverage-here.html
46
Jared is now our Metternich !!
I would say "like father like son"
16
Well, do we need to find the gun he had in mind of using ? What are waiting for ? Call this psychopath to face justice....even if it’s symbolic. No American leader is going to stand up to this guy, but can we agree to be call murder when we see it ?
21
Well, sir.... too bad you didn't use a bullet.
It would have been cleaner.
It wouldn't have become farce with your special bone saw doctor going on so about which music one must use when chopping someone up.
Your initials: "MBS" would not forever be remembered as Mr. Bone Saw.
Yes, MBS, you have smeared your name forever.
You will always be remembered as "that crown prince over in Saudi Arabia that had that journalist chopped up and then blamed it on the men he had ordered to do it".
We will remember you forever, Mr. Bone Saw.
If I were Trump I wouldn't let Jared come over and play with you anymore.
Most men try to prove to the world that they ARE trustworthy.
That doesn't seem to be your goal at all.
Please, do not ever return to my country.
You are not welcome.
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@rosa: No , its "mohammed bone saw". You're forgetting who was the origina inspiration for MBS' tactics.
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Nice fella the Prince.
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His Royal Highness The Crown Wizard is up to his eyeballs in this premeditated killing. Time for sanctions.
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@Brewster Millions
I would like to see a resolution naming MBS a persona non grata in the USA.
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@Brewster Millions
Not only that but the imprisonment and torture of a woman for driving!!!
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Wow... In light of this, I’m sure the BDS people must be working overtime to add Saudi Arabia to their boycott campaign.
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We don't have a reliable system for applying the correct penalties for the rulers, other than ordinary people applying the death penalty if they can outwit the bodyguards of the state. Most of the time the rulers get away with it even if they perpetrate holocausts; for example, Idi Amin, the butcher of Uganda, exterminated hundreds of thousands; Nixon and Johnson exterminated millions in Southeast Asia; Bush exterminated hundreds of thousands in Iraq; etc., etc. With all the outrage at M.B.S. for exterminating tens of thousands and creating a humanitarian disaster in Yemen, and the killing of Jamal Khashoggi, what are the chances that he escapes justice?
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This guy is a wrecking ball who will wreck himself with his own wrecking ball. Amen !
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Who lured Khashoggi out of the safety of the States?
He was writing within Washington D.C. where I'm certain that many government figures knew his writing.
The writing risked rupturing relations between our nation and Saudi Arabia. Oil is a theme to consider.
He was murdered and butchered by the bedoins in Turkey, just to the north of Saudi Arabia. It's obvious he was lured there to be killed.
I firmly believe Americans played part in the murder. Our Government has killed American citizens before.
All you Republican Oil industry servants really make me sick.
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@PATRICK
The Saudi Ambassador to the USA, the Crown Princes brother, called Kashoggi and told him it would be safe to visit the Saudi consulate in Turkey.
That man is a direct accomplice to murder and his diplomatic credentials should be revoked and he should be banned from the country.
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@Joe
I don't think it had anything to do with the Bedouins who are nomads and not in Turkey although there are some in israel.
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Trump's buddy, America's shame.
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Great. Someone Trump respects and supports tortured and murdered a journalist 3 or 4 months ago who was critical of the Saudi royal family while here at home there's a circular firing squad over blackface yearbook photos from 35 years ago.
It makes one wonder about priorities.
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Prince Chop Chop.
Not very surprising.
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Trump's friend. Nuff said.
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"Late last year, Mr. Trump tried to blunt the outrage by issuing a statement saying that it was possible that Prince Mohammed ordered the killing, but the facts might never be known."
In other words, the Saudis hung something bright and shiny in front of our president and as long as someone could make money from them, we would overlook the savage murder of a journalist. The Bushes also had ties to the Saudis and after 911 let them leave the country, even though the worst terrorist attack on our soil had been sponsored by them. It is beyond me, why we have anything to do with this brutal dictatorship, which subjugates half its population and routinely inflicts medieval punishments (including murder) on its own citizens. If anyone should be on a no fly list, it is the Saudis. The US used to be the moral leaders of the world, no the only thing that sways us is money. This has been brought to its apex under Trump. We have lost our moral authority. Everyone and everything is for sale under this president, even our values.
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@thewriterstuff
It used to be for the oil, but now, supposedly, we have so much we don't need theirs and are exporting. So how come they still seem to have our president and his family unt=der their thumb? Is it the shiny huge gold necklace they gave him? And maybe some other gifts we haven't heard about? The 500 rooms they booked at one of his hotels? The multimillion dollar apartments they have over paid for?
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MBS is reputed to use video games. The problem with video games is that they teach rote behaviors in response to stimuli.
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Trump publicly denying what our intelligence agencies KNOW about Bin Salman's involvement is impeachable on its face. There are any number of justifications for this action, and it will take place sooner rather than later.
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I am convinced that Trump would act in the same way if he thought he could get away with it.
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The leaks from the Intel community will increase as the rank and file intel folks realize Trump does not support their efforts to inform the Trump admin, Trump was suspected of being a Russian asset as much as Jared may be suspected of being an asset to MSB the suspected murderer of Khashoggi. Jared has his security clearance forced thru by a Trump lacky. Trump regime seems compromised by its own personal financial interests ,which seems to be the reason Trump brought his family into govt as 3rd world dictators do to cash in on govt power.
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Worked, too. It is not like the US government is interested in this at all.
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Trump and his son in law Jared are so infatuated with the Saudis and their wealth and power that the prince could probably tell them he ordered Khashoggi's execution and both would say, "so what? Now, how about that arms deal?" Trump has no ethics where human life is concerned unless it is placating the far right in this country who hate a woman's right to choose. Then, he will cry about keeping the unborn from being harmed. Crocodile tears.
I have never been so disgusted with a president in my life and that says a lot after 8 years of Dubya Bush. Trump makes Bush look like a saint.
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Think of the upper echelons of a gangster regime, a confirmed sanguinary governing body of a nation, state, or community, and the image that springs to mind is of the confirmed central villains or chief criminals of Saudi Arabia, whose cruelty has no parallel among the world’s slaughters.
Yet, such a sentiment, as affirmed by the October 2, 2018 bestial murder and decapitation of what had immediately thereafter become the tortured, lifeless body of Jamal Ahmad Khashoggi, a Saudi Arabian dissident, author and columnist for The Washington Post.
A barbaric act of murder; one, by many measures, that had no equal, at the Saudi Arabian consulate in Istanbul, indisputably it proved to be. Still, the notorious, chiefs of chiefs terrorists (mainly self-designated Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman) the civilized men and women are convinced should theoretically and practically now be classified as nothing more than historical curiosities continue to, with maximum ferocity, to obstruct democracy. This, also by way of a so-called Anti-Cyber Crime Law , which provisions read as such: “Production, preparation, transmission, or storage of material impinging on public order, religious values, public morals, and privacy, through the information network or computer.” A person even assumed by a kangaroo court to have breached or violated such a said law, the punishment assigned to the defendant is up to five years in prison – in many cases beheading.
Business and money above all else. This is a Trump partner. The only difference between MBS and other Trump partners is that MBS will not end up in jail.
5
The US admits it has a 110 billion dollar conflict of interest in this investigation.
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My ex wife once said to me, "I hope you die a slow and painful death."
I'm guessing this did not make the news because:
- I'm still here
- I'm a nobody
Either way, that's a stretch, finding someone who will say that they heard someone say something bad. Although that someone is Prince MBS. I guess being somebody comes with intense scrutiny where the world hinges off your every word, or maybe just the bad ones.
Unfortunately, "Civilization" and "Human Rights" have become concepts of convenience.
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The president of the United States does not trust his intelligence agencies. One might wonder why that is but I think the answer is that he isn’t at all interested in what’s happening around the world. I mean, why bother attending security briefings when Fox And Friends is set to air?
But even if the president paid attention to this awful matter of the Crown Prince and the doomed Jamal Khashoggi, he would probably address it in a Rose Garden press briefing and tell us there are “fine people. On both sides.”
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The greatest scandal here is that Trump refuses to condemn the prince because Saudi Arabia wants to invest in the American military industrial complex. How evil can a person be? We who left the United States to protest against the war in Vietnam would like to ask those who stayed behind to examine their conscience.
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All this is clearly horrible and makes us ever more wary of dictators. However, i am a bit blown away by the magnitude of the coverage on this issue given the lack of focus on even more horrible crimes. The NY Times has paid lip service to how we invaded Iraq based on little more than faulty intelligence - an invasion that has resulted in the death of tens of thousands of innocent civilians - men, women and children. It has written even less about our horrible support to the Saudi regime in their brutalization of Yemen where scores of people continue to get slaughtered everyday. This laundry list of crimes committed by the US - call it misguided foreign policy if you will but that is just euphemism- never gets a proper scrutiny. Why ? Instead you write about the death of a journalist (no doubt important) because it is easier to bash an enemy that you cannot see. Strange indeed.
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How many will we execute this year in America? We embarrass ourselves to no end carrying on about this story as we do.
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@John Doe - I totally agree. Best and most appropriate comment on this thread.
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@John Doe Very true, & a great shame. But we do it openly after a trial, which gives us citizens a chance to criticize it & agitate for change because it can't be denied.
Secret assassinations of citizens is another thing, though I don't know if it's morally worse. Maybe being open & shameless about killing is even worse.
1
"What was more important, the president indicated, was that the kingdom had pledged hundreds of billions of dollars of investments in the United States,..."
Naturally,Trump thinks money is more important than a principled man's life.
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"Saudi Arabia has since begun criminal proceedings against 11 individuals involved in the operation. Prosecutors are seeking the death penalty for five of them."
Does anyone really believe that the actual conspirators/murderers are the ones going to be on trial?
If you do the king a big favor, I doubt you're going to be punished for it.
The real murderers/conspirators have probably already been given new identities and lifetime pensions. Perhaps some poor beggars off the street have been rounded and will be executed. With so much secrecy and intrigue, who will ever know?
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The hope in Saudi Arabia is that the killing of the dissident Saudi journalist, Jamal Khashoggi, will die down, fade away as more relevant, up-to-the minute, news takes its place on the viewing screens of the people who unlike Mr. Khashoggi continue to live and breathe the air, such as it is, in today's world. "Old news" is what they hope for, waiting out the outcry, imagining that that outcry will find a new target and the brutal murder and dismemberment of the Washington Post columnist by a Saudi hit team, flown into Istanbul with their forensic specialist who brought along a bone saw and the full-size suitcases we've seen in the surveillance snap shots, for but a single night, loudly proclaim their sinister purpose. Despite Mr. Trump and his wannabe billionaire son-in-law, despite the support of the decrepit father who is King of the country, despite the hubris of the Crown Prince who would be king, Mr. Khashoggi's death will not go unanswered. The voice of the United States Congress will be heard, the arms currently raining down on the Yemeni populace will be staunched, and the blood of the journalist which was spilled to the man's death in Istanbul will eventually be avenged. Count on it, MSB, your days, dark, young prince, have their number, too.
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Given the ample evidence, it is clear that Mohammed bin Salman ordered and achieved Jamal Khashoggi's gruesome murder. Butchered in the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul and then whose body was dissolved in acid at the official Saudi residence in Istanbul, Khashoggi is a beacon of the importance of objective and fearless reporting, and alas, of the complicit and morally corrupt US administration that continues to embrace the heinously corrupt and murderous Saudi regime. Oil. Just like the US intervention in Venezuela's politics. Anything is permitted if, ultimately, oil is allowed to flow the US. Disgusting. But, the reality du jour. The Trump administration and Kushner's dependance on Saudi money explain it all. I am Canadian and refuse to enter the USA, even to change planes there, while its corrupt and nepotistic administration is in place. Quelle honte!
7
Is there any rational literate person who does not believe that MBS is the prime suspect in Khashoggi’s barbaric murder? “Saudi Arabia should not care about international reaction to how it handles its own citizens” so said MBS after authorizing the hit. He was right, Trump and other world leaders look the other way. Is the military-industrial-global-petroleum-complex driving this complacency? Or is it Trump’s tacit approval with how heads of state should be able to deal with dissent?
5
Donald Trump's position in the assassination by the Saudis is that a bullet is worth a new luxury hotel and perhaps a few dozen personal business opportunities. That is the sort of man he is.
9
I hope this story will continue being updated. As long as it, is there will be less of a chance for countries, companies and individuals to look the othet way and do buisness with those sociopaths.
It doesn’t matter if it’s russians, arabs or other nations - people from democratic states must not look away when the most basic right is trampled upon: the right to live.
It’s not popular by heads of nations, but it’s true: the means should justify the end, not the other way around. Those who cannot graspe that concept in the core of their intuition should not rule and should not be allowed to do so.
That “prince” will not hesitate from killing milions if he would grasp a chance of getting away with it and some vague notion of it being beneficial to him. We have enough of such people in our history books.
5
If Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman stood in the middle of 5th Avenue and shot somebody he wouldn’t lose any of Trump's support.
At least as long as the Saudi royal family still buys Trump condos, book Trump hotel rooms, and invest in Trump projects.
Career white collar criminals just don't make good Presidents. And people who vote for them don't make responsible citizens.
11
Complete coincidence. Just like Trump calling on Russia to hack the Dems during the campaign, and the hacking occurring the next day.
6
The Saudis are not our friends or allies. Doesn’t anyone in the current administration remember the nationalities of the bombers on 9/11? The military industry as made countless billions, as have contractors, but America has lost untold blood and treasure. (And the Afghanis and Iraqis have suffered ten times as much.) We don’t need their oil at that price. The Saudis get away with terrorism, and America turns a blind eye. For shame.
8
One could have obtained a recording of MbS murdering Mr. Khashoggi and it still wouldn't prompt this corrupt government to stop doing business with Saudi Arabia, demanding from the king that he jail his son and pick a different successor, nor would it change the way our European partners have let up the pressure and gone back to business as usual.
It takes principles to act on one's ethics. We don't have that and, it seems, no one else does, either.
Khashoggi was butchered in Turkey. No one will do anything about it. The stain and shame are on all of us.
RIP!
---
Things Trump Did While You Weren’t Looking [2019]
https://wp.me/p2KJ3H-3h2
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It hasn't stop any of our European allies from doing with the Saudi's nor China. I guess they all corrupt too.
4
Agreed, sad, but true- everything we were taught (or most of us) about honor, doing the right thing, standing up when it is difficult...….our country didn't do. I'm not sure what we stand for anymore, or ever did. But by all means let's invade Iran (after we overthrew their democracy in 1953 and installed a brutal dictator which they then overthrew and here we are..).
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@Rima Regas I couldn't have said it better.
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