"In October, the Homeland Security secretary, Kirstjen Nielsen, visited to unveil a plaque crediting the president with the barrier."
The most important sentence in the entire article.
This is the crux of the wall policy and thus the shutdown.
9
If a wall is ever built - it will be destroyed with dynamite and explosives. Of this - I am sure.
3
The "wall" was a campaign promise to trump's lunatic fringe. Mexico was to pay for it or so he promised at his many rallies. Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan aided and abetted Trump for the first two years. Ryan is gone and McConnell is MIA. Trump cannot bend Pelosi to his will. Meanwhile, the federal workers are suffering in this civil war.
7
Two years into this disastrous Presidency its time to have a new slogan with 2020 in mind.
"Make America Smart Again."
6
Words and more Words. Attempts to present facts and pleas for rational thought. Debates over effectiveness. Pleas for sane discourse. All are complete wastes of time and energy. Everyone, on both sides of the fence issue, knows that the battle is about race. A large segment of Americans want to prevent all Latinos and Muslims from entering the country or from becoming citizens, regardless of skills, abilities or talents. If they could, they would also eliminate Blacks from the population. The wall speaks to them, and expresses their attitudes, in a way that cannot be surpassed. It affirms and legalizes their beliefs. It makes them feel as if they are not bad people. Discourse is useless.
5
Government agents repeatedly lied to residents: "It's not a wall." So, it's a wall. And a learning experience for those unaware that government is allowed to lie its head off to you, but you commit a felony when you lie to it.
2
It´s been documented that President Trump has hired illegal immigrants to work on his properties. His lies on immigration and hypocrisy will only be matched by his corrupt businesses and cronies serving in his administration. I look forward to watching the Elijah Cumming´s Congressional oversight hearings on Security Clearances in his administration.
6
The only thing more absurd than the "wall" is standing next to it at a lectern. I guess if you can get away with that, the border must be pretty secure, at least from any sense of humility.
2
Trump is a shameless huckster. The tragedy for him and us is that his lies are utterly transparent, completely stupid, and revealing of his self-centeredness, and lack of concern for the citizens he took an oath to serve. We have never been forced to tolerate such a hopelessly pitiful and inadequate national leader.
6
The problem for Central Americans marching to the wall stems from the drug cartels in their country. It seems opium production, via opium farming, needs to be squashed. I suggest, akin to native unwanted military action in the Middle East, we should increase domineering military action in Central America. Intercede the problem at the source.
Shut down the drug machinery in the country of origin.
USA Military action is probably needed, as the corrupt governments there will not help or intervene.
We need to press for USA intervention, if not invasion.
I believe our military could shut down the cartel farming and subsequent operations that fuel the exodus.
Our country is under attack from the south.
Rather than being reactive, be proactive.
3
An idea: why don't we have a voter referendum in each and every principality that will have a wall built along/through it? Let's get the government going and let the people decide for themselves, rather than having all these residents and federal employees used as pawns. The folks most affected should decide.
12
Mr. President, tear down the wall dividing the American public and open the government! Honor and respect the dignity of the citizens who simply wish to provide for their families and work to make America better everyday.
9
The Democrats should counter with an offer to make it mandatory for all American employers to register their employees with the e-verify program along with a government commitment to prosecute any employer who hires illegal immigrants. This would be far more effective than any "Wall."
But that is pure fantasy. Both the Democrats and the Republicans' inner cores are beholden to corporate interests and thereby only pretend to be serious to halt the flow of cheap labour.
Australia is much more stringent than the U.S. in ensuring that all employers are hiring people who are legally entitled to work in the country. And this greatly benefits its most vulnerable citizens and legal residents.
Not in America though, as it has too many conflicting interests to put the brakes on illegal immigration. And so it will continue.
3
Ah, rust. Oxidized steel or iron. Corrosion. Decay. What does a rotting wall, or fence, say about our country? That we're really on a decline?
If there's a barrier of any kind at least make it attractive, not another Rust Belt.
5
Today China offered to sell a fully functioning wall to the United States at a steep discount. Much less than the 5 billion dollars the President is asking for to build one from scratch. It has great historical value and is quite enticing in all dimensions. The Chinese guarantee that no immigrant, terrorist or drug dealer would ever be able to scale it, go around it or dig under it. The Chinese have mothballed this wall for there own defense purposes as the are now concentrating there efforts on higher tech satellite surveillance and smart drones and cameras in every tree bush and corner to interdict the bad guys. Still they say that the wall they have for sale is a Great Wall.
9
Border denizens do not determine national policy.
Immigration - legal and illegal -- is a matter of national policy.
The American people -- acting through their national government elected by people nationwide -- determine national policy.
The national government can listen to American citizens in border cities and try not to unnecessarily take actions which hurt them.
And American citizens in border communities can voice their opinion and cast their vote for representatives Congress, along with their fellow citizens through the USA.
However, in the end, the American government can and ought to do whatever it has determined is necessary to implement national policy, and border community citizens need to learn to live with it.
1
Calexico and Mexicali were once lovely little towns to visit and a wall would have been an intolerable inconvenience to both town's residents. As far as that goes, Juarez and Tijuana were years ago great fun for U.S. citizens to visit. It all began to go wrong with Nixon's war on drugs. Before that Mexicans had been smoking marijuana for hundreds, maybe thousands of years, without a whiff of a problem. Like Trump's war on illegal immigration, the real purpose of Nixon's war on drugs was its political appeal as an expedient distraction from their own criminality. Great wrongs were done to both nations.
16
Awful. On the bright side, it might help the payment of taxes by having the 'Undesirables' place delivery orders with the eateries in Calexico. An enterprising company could begin with the 'Trump Slat Shopping Depot': A Good-Will line of life essentials and food and beverage produce. 'One club sandwich, with bacon, heavy on the mayo, turkey and plenty of lettuce' to be hand-delivered to a child out in the cold, through the slat, and tax-deductible year end.
It sounds as if this president would not recognize a wall from a hole in the ground; he is most likely surrounded by moles in The White House, and he is not planning to celebrate Cinco del Mayo this year.
To our fellow Californians in Calexico hold strong, and be prepared to receive a lot of barbed comments, while States across the border are appealing to their Representatives to put an end to this crisis. We care.
A large portion of the southern border is already walled or fenced off. I don't see the problem with renovating existing barriers or erecting new ones. At the same time, opening up legal immigration to this region would be beneficial for all parties, namely, the immigrant and the United States.
3
The Berlin Wall was also erected by a misguided sense of keeping people from escaping. Hopefully we'll all be able to escape the trump nightmare in two years or less. I, for one, feel walled in.
10
Trump is DESPERATE for a win - even if he has to make it up!
Meanwhile: Coast Guard, the FBI, the CIA, and (ironically) ICE, are all either under furlough, or they are working without pay.
Real National and Homeland Security? Forget about it! Trump does not care!
8
Just let everyone who wants to just come right into our nation no ?s asked. Give them all the benefits and money they want.
That's the ticket.
It is so disheartening that Trump supporters cannot distinguish the difference between the wall and actual border security. They are NOT the same thing! Virtually every independent security expert has said the wall would be a terribly ineffective waste of money. The border patrol and Department of Homeland Security want more personnel, drones, other high-tech gear, better access roads for their vehicles, and other security measures. They do NOT want a wall! The majority of Americans do NOT want a wall! There are better, more effective ways to spend money.
The House has just offered Mr Trump the money he's demanding, to be spent on all the security measures that would be more effective than the wall, but NOT for the wall. He needs to give up this ridiculous idea.
And, his supporters have to get it through their heads that there is better, more effective protection available than the wall would ever provide, and that just because Democrats don't support this gigantic, wasteful boondoggle does NOT mean they do not sorry secure borders.
And, the Times needs to do a better job reporting on actual proposals and the efficacy of each, instead of waiting in the mud of the Trump circus and allowing ignorance to prevail. If you don't do your job, you are complicit.
12
They killed Pablo Escobar in 1993. The cocaine keeps coming.
Add to that we now get marijuana, meth, and heroin.
We will never stop the drugs coming with a war on drugs.
Only by stopping the demand will the drugs stop coming.
8
Trump and the Republicans had two years of complete control. They could have built two walls and no one could have stopped them. Trump wants a monument to his ego. He is what he is. However, McConnell should have allowed the original budget to go through so Trump would veto it and then it could have been overridden. This is McConnell's mess. He was supposed to be the grown up in the room.
7
That would be a great setting for Trump’s state of the union speech.
3
Ego. All presidents, senators and speakers of the house have it.
But this President also has an undisciplined tongue, and he has put himself in a corner.
This will not conclude well.
5
A wall is nothing more than a symbol. Let’s leave this matter to the symbol minded.
3
Good thing they rolled up a podium for her otherwise I just wouldn't be able to take this whole thing seriously...
1
I wish folks would stop referring to it as "barbed" wire. It isn't barbed wire. It's razor wire --- a huge difference.
Barbed wire is intended to prick and annoy animals to keep them in a designated area, but cause no great harm.
Razor wire is intended to slice up people, causing great harm.
3
Please excuse my comedy, but I was imagining Ms. Nielsen without the speaker's platform with her hand gripping a whip!
Back you Huns, back!!!
12
As long as we're condemning and buying all that right-of-way, buy enough for a high-speed rail "bullet train" to connect the coasts. That would be something many would use and all could be proud of. Fold it into the infrastructure package Trump has promised and create jobs for a decade or more.
17
@abigail49
He also claimed he was going to lower the deficit.
Apparently, he was referring to his personal bank account.
5
Trump's wall will be a monument to racism and xenophobia. America should not want this on any of our borders and especially on the southern border. Aren't the existing fences and barbed wire already making us look like a prison camp?
We need to acknowledge the immense benefit that flows to us from immigration. How many fewer families with elderly relatives in care facilities would be unable to afford that without low-cost immigrant labor? Ports of entry and work visas need to be expanded so that workforce, which we desperately need, can reach us without having to climb over or tunnel under walls in order to satisfy our economy's labor demand.
16
But what about the 700 miles of wall we already have? when will we tear it down?
1
At the time when the Easterner Xerxes invaded Greece, his immense army-was thought unstoppable and only Themistocles (and his supporters, as well as the Oracle at Delphi, thought the Persians might be stopped. But only by "a wooden wall". Most walls in those days were masonry, brick or stone, the idea of wood for a wall seemed absurd-(but few understood the Oracle)-to Themistocles and others, the Oracle meant that Athens must literally move it's people to another place, of safety-for the city would fall-except that it could only be saved by a Wooden Wall. Apparently this was the earliest important naval battle (with the Persians, great grandparents to the Iranians), who demanded Earth and Water as a sign of enslavement to Persia. As a consequence-Themistocles and the Athenian/Greek allied naval force were able to crush the immense naval forces of Medizing Greeks,(like American Copperheads in 1860-65), and then to frighten a fleeing Xerxes out of Europe. A smaller wall was constructed and never saw use. After Salamis, Athens ruled the East Med for almost a hundred years and remains a major shipping power, today.
Had they relied on any sort of fixed land wall-Athens would be remembered only as a minor enemy destroyed by our wonderful precursor, Xerxes-and we'd all give thanks to Zoroaster for his victory! Many philosphers believe keeping Xerxes' forces from Greece had the historical effect of making the West, Western.
6
@meloop Excellent example. The greeks fell to an army.
We are not facing an army. We are facing individuals or small groups.
When Mexico sends their army against our wall, it won't last long. Until that, the wall will be exceptionally effective.
Trump's claims that we are facing a crisis at the border are simply unsupported. According to a GAO report from July, incarcerations of illegal immigrants in Federal prisons decreased by 22% in the five-year period from 2011 - 2016; in state prisons that decrease was just about double. According to that same report, only 12% of those were re-incarcerated. If the bottom line of that report is that the numbers of illegal immigrants that are incarcerated is dropping precipitously (as well as costs) then Trump's shutdown of the government is based on lies. Shame on this self-professed supreme negotiator for subjecting 800,000 Federal employees to financial hardships just so that he stands a chance in 2020.
12
If, as the residents say, there is no real need for a better wall because so few illegal aliens cross there then how can it be that building a better wall is going to effect legal commerce in their town? Are we really to think that a 30 foot wall replacing a shorter barrier is going to cause legal crossers not to come? Seems very unlikely.
It seems far more important to border towns such as these that the ports of entry be expanded and modernized just as called for in Trumps offer to the Democrats. Logically these people should be cheering Trump on.
4
I once spent a summer working in a farmworker clinic in Calexico. We did home visits across into Mexicali for some of the patients: women with pre-eclampsia who were assigned to their beds, a baby with hydrocephaly and a girl with disseminated TB. When we needed drugs for parasites for children and the CDC was slow in sending them, we went t a farmacia in Mexicali. Although it was now years ago, I can't imagine that the situation is that changed: families, friends, businesses on both sides. Yes, we are 2 countries but, please have some understanding of the local economics and culture.
18
Walls work. They stop the flow of persons.
When don't they work? When those who want to defeat the wall bring artillery or large armies. That's how the Great Wall fell, Hadrian's wall - all fell to armies.
But WE ARE NOT FACING AN ARMY.
Walls will work exceptionally well against peasants with pitchforks. And the tunnels? Sure, let them dig a tunnel. It will take 2-3 weeks to dig a tunnel, and 30 seconds to eliminate it.
8
@GeorgePTryebyter: If getting rid of those tunnels were as easy as you make it sound, the smuggling of heroin and cocaine would have been all but eliminated. Sure; you can take a whole 30 seconds to bury a tunnel that took 2-3 weeks to build. But, finding and destroying those tunnels in Mexico would be like playing "Whack-a-Mole." Let's see Trump try to make Mexico pay for that!
And, are you going to wall off the Rio Grande, too? "Walls may work, but this one is neither sound, or workable.
4
If I lived in Mexico I'd be building 30 ft mobile staircases with a drop down ladder at the top. There might be a market for just such a thing.
13
@Syd Gosh, what a clever idea. I'm sure that the thousands and thousands of BP agents won't even notice that.
Is it possible for liberals to actually make a sensible proposal? This wall seems to have destroyed the ability of liberal "minds" to actually think about the border.
1
How much longer will we allow this craziness to continue? Five billion dollars plus of hard-earned taxpayer dollars for a "wall" that serves almost no purpose? Now, Democrats (per the NYT) are willing to discuss spending that much money but not on a "wall"?
How is this possible when we our national debt has become even frighteningly worse with Trump's tax cuts?
In what other country or world would legislators even consider shelling out five billion taxpayer dollars solely to appease the enormous ego of the president in the face of ever-increasing hunger, homelessness, unbearable student debt, unaffordable health care, and the ravaging effects of climate change?
14
It is preposterous to believe that our southern border does not need barriers to define US and Mexican sovereignty and prevent illegal border crossings. The "no borders" mantra of one-worlders is as dangerous as it is naïve. PS the US welcomes more legal immigrants every year than the rest of the world combined, and that hasn't changed under Trump. But Trump has a right to try to finally end the corruption of illegal immigration.
7
@Underclaw Your arguments crystallize the confusion that Trump elicits in so many people in this country. There are some who champion no borders, but these are not influential in this country. Do you think otherwise? The charade of this "wall" should be played out by now. How do you feel about a politician whose principal claim was that this country is under continuous and dangerous assault across the southern border, a problem to be solved by constructing a solid concrete wall across the entire border, to be paid for by Mexico? Did you believe that he was serious? Did you actually believe that another country would pay billions of dollars to the country that still refuses to clamp down on employers who knowingly hire undocumented workers? Do you know that most of those who enter and stay arrive through legally monitored entry points? Do you realize that the family farm of Rep. Devin Nunes in Iowa (no, not California, after all) is sited in an agricultural area where large numbers of the workers are undocumented?
The entire Build the Wall game is a fraud: a game that at least not everyone is buying. Trump has a very well-documented history of cheating in his interactions with others, lying about nearly everything, and getting away with it. The wall is simply the latest in a long series of fraudulent actions. And now he has chosen to punish innocent bystanders because he cannot get his way. What a country!
5
I keep wanting for Pelosi, Schumer, and other Democrats to explain why a few years ago, they called the influx of people entering the US a crisis and voted to spend billions to build border walls and fences. The ones shown in the article were constructed during the Obama administration. What is different now that a Republican is President? Thousands still illegally cross the border. This should be an easy question for them to answer.
7
The problem remains that the complex problem that is immigration reform has been boiled down in Trump's mind to one simple problem: Mexicans and others getting in the country. To which he can apply one and only one solution: Build a wall to keep them out. He has neither the wits nor the temperament to deal with immigration any other way.
And to his previous failures he now adds a third, and very dangerous one: He wants the US to build the wall he wants. Nothing short of absolute obedience to his whim will suffice. He wants the wall and that is all there is to that, and he will ignore and submerge any other problem or concern until he gets his way. This is not merely tyrannical in the extreme; it also displays Trump's absolute inability to work within a democratic framework. He wants to be Putin, or better yet, Kim Jong-Un, giving orders and making great things happen in His name.
The longer we let this unbalanced and dictatorial person sit in the Oval Office the greater the damage he will do to us as a nation. He must be removed that the country can be restored to normal. Otherwise the US becomes nothing more than the Wall, the Wall, the Wall.
14
Re drugs, couldn't the stuff just be thrown over the top to an accomplice on the other side? In fact it looks like it could actually be squeezed through the bars, depending on the size of the container.
4
Trump always forces his way and will despite being told No. This seems to be how he always gets his way. He wears people down with his relentless bullying. He knows people will eventually compromise. But. Why do people always cave in? Some fights -- especially against people like Trump -- are absolutely non-negotiable.
Trump's behavior is EXACTLY like that of children in the throes of temper tantrums and bullies in the schoolyard. I've never understood why people tolerate (even idolize) brats and bullies. There is something seriously disordered about men like Trump, McConnell and their Republican pals in Washington and at Fox News.
We as a society need to examine why we keep raising generations of men (some women but mostly men) who behave this way, whether opportunistically or premeditated. Either way, the repercussions of this behavior in men should be serious enough to stop the majority of this bro-culture from taking root in future generations.
7
What hapened to States' Rights and smaller govt preached by GOP? So they want ot use eminanant domain in addition to forcing "walls" on border towns? What would make more sense would be to let the border towns dictate if they really feel the need for these barriers that cost tax payers money that SHOULD be spent elsewhere like education... My guess is businesses along the border and inland that use temporary workers think the wall is also a waste of money. This is standard GOP - small government and no interference - unless they want it for some agenda most citizens don't even support.
6
If American businesses, including Trump did not hire illegal immigrants there would be no need for a wall. Will a wall stop American businesses from hiring illegal immigrants?
11
Will a wall stop American businesses from moving to Mexico? Even after their big, non-expiring tax breaks?
Dear Congress:
1. FIRST AND FOREMOST, please combat this President’s amoral effort to treat DACA children as SLAVES FOR SALE in his normal/amoral strategy in bargaining for HIS WALL.
2. Recognize the WALL as the BUMPER STICKER concept it has always been.
3. To approach our President on his terms, REMEMBER HE NEEDS A PERCEIVED WIN. Agree with any national problem he has identified — and thank him. Agree with the abstract solution he suggests — and thank him.
Then, define the “WALL”: All reasonable means necessary to BLOCK ILLEGAL DRUGS and PERSONS ENTRY into the USA via open borders, shorelines, and ports of entry.
Then, identify the NET DAMAGE RISKS AND COSTS for unregulated entry OF DRUGS AND PEOPLE.
Identify the relative cost effectiveness per person stopped of 40’ high walls, steel planks, versus seismic tunnel construction sensors, drones, electronic surveillance, wire fencing, and combinations of options, etc. Compare specific costs to relative risks, to area coverage, and to current illegal entry practices and modes. Consider cost/risk of gaining low paid workers for golf clubs.
Only then come up with a cost-effective plan and thank our Greatest President Leader.
If walls are a complete sham, why are they still used all over the world? Why did Democrats back wall funding over the years before Trump was in office? Why aren't Democrats advocating for tearing down existing "immoral" walls that were built years in the past? Because, this is all politics. On the face of it, there's absolutely nothing wrong with a country building a wall on its border, especially from a country where the presidents accept millions and millions of dollars worth of bribes from the cartels. Wall please!
2
I have not been to this steel slat wall yet to test this, but it sure looks like anyone could slip bags of coke and heroine thru there fairly easily. So much for stopping drugs coming in from Mexico.
6
@c-c-g
It also looks as if a relatively small/thin person could slip between the cracks. I was hoping to see more visuals, or at least be given the measurements of the gaps between the slats.
2
Why are the voices from those living in these border towns not being broadcast, loudly, clearly and over and over again so that they finally penetrate those favoring a wall?
Their is clear consensus form those residents that their is no crisis, there is little crime, that life is good, and that the walls in border towns as constructed and maintained are intrusive, unnecessary and wasteful.
This message should be piped in non-stop to the wall supporters across America.
7
Democrats are not against border security, but they are against paying for walls that won't do the job.
8
The photo heading this article tells you everything you need to know about the logic of this so-called president's so-called wall. As much as anything, it's the optics of their hostile posturing before the media, amid the fear-mongering directed against people who don't look or speak (or, God forbid, vote) exactly like the proper Americans they imagine themselves to be.
The bigger national crisis -and outrage- is that the poseur in the WH continues, on multiple fronts, to hijack the government apparatus and our taxpayer dollars in furtherance of his signature campaign stunt: The Wall.
2
There is a major irony in Trump's holding fast to his wall: Current poll numbers show that many in his base of support -- for whom he dedicates his intractability -- are now disgusted with him.
Indeed, 57% of Americans (including more than a million of Trump's supporters, and growing) have declared this week -- as a direct result of that intractability -- that should Trump run in 2020, they will not vote for him.
Stubbornness and anger (etc., etc., etc.) aren't Trump's only shortcomings. So is ignorance.
4
Just waiting for the article in the Times n the downsides of illegal immigration.
Waiting . . . waiting . . . waiting.
Sheesh, I remember when this was a newspaper.
15
Illegal immigrants do not come over the southern border for the most part. The vast majority arrive at airports with legitimate visas, and then they overstay them. The largest group are Canadians. So what would the $50 billion, 20-year "wall" accomplish? Next to nothing! Trump swoons over the thought that his name will go up on the wall, but he should think again! The wall is a boondoggle. If it gets built, it will be known forever as Trump's Folly
@Josh Hill: Without illegal immigrants you would not have your staff of gardeners, domestic helpers and nannies. Your formal dinners and holiday get togethers would probably be woefully understaffed.
With such a huge downside to not having illegal immigration how can you even think about the down side of the alternative?
Sheeeeesh!
@Josh Hill, What? There are downsides? Who knew?
We will never hear or see them here that's for sure.
The reality is that it is a "physical barrier". I wonder if anybody ever climes the old barrier. Either you want a border that allows control of the flow of things between two countries or you don't. I do, and since many don't stay in their country, or go through the established ports of entries some methods of control are required.
8
@vulcanalex, Hmm, if I lived down there I believe I would be working on a tunnel under it. What people fail to realize is that the larger the wall the more it costs to maintain and repair. I am not in favor of anything that increases my taxes. If other people want to pay for a 30 foot wall and maintenance of such wall, let them and their children and grandchildren keep paying for it.
4
It’s a normal program of previous Governments replacing parts of the wall and Trump wants to sale the idea, like something new of his administration
Next up on Fox watch "Border Wall Olympics."
First up: Men's wall climbing (free style)
Next: Open wall climbing - all comers, any non-mechanical assistance.
After that: Contraband flinging: Toss a 20kg bag of weed over the wall
5
The NYT now wants to argue the semantics of the word ”wall” when this has no meaning whatsoever in this political context. From a security point of view, those vertical steel plates at an angle plus razor blade wire on the top are far better than a masonry wall. They will scare away even the chickens.
6
You can see through it, so it's no more imposing than chain-link and actually even easier to pass drugs through.
It's a boondoggle.
2
Unbelievably UGLY. Ugly in thought, word, and deed. This monument to hatred shames everything this country has been proud of in the past.
10
@J.Sutton This isn't art appreciation. And besides, walls are definitely more attractive than anything by Helen Frankenthaler.
1
The picture of Kirstjen Nielsen is priceless. So Trump has to stick his name on a 2 mile fence? Just a thousand or so more plaques to go! To think they spent tax payers' hard earned money on this stupid photo op. This actually would have made a great cartoon. "Which one of these lucky contestants will win what's behind door number one?'"
10
This is getting really silly. Do people fall for this?
1
That podium looks ridiculous
1
can't they just pass the drugs through the slats, like?
6
@hugh: Exactly what I was thinking. I'm pretty sure I could package plenty of drugs in long flat parcels that would pass right through.
NYTimes journalists and others need to know the difference between BARBED WIRE (used to deter livestock from raoming by pricking them when they run into it,
and
RAZOR WIRE, designed to cut the skin of people horribly.
RAZOR WIRE is a militarizing tool that no farmer would ever risk using on livestock, as it would injure or killl them if they became entangled.
PLEASE USE "RAZOR WIRE" to describe this militarizing use at our borders and at prison walls and war fronts.
13
@Richard And that is why razor wire is so effective in this case. We are not trying to help the criminals. We are deterring them.
1
@GeorgePTyrebyter See a cardiologist.
We are not at war with poor people and their kids.
Crossing is the equivalent of jay-walking-- a misdemeanor.
A misdemeanor punishable by horrifying lacerations is the act of a criminal mind.
4
Calexico and its sister city Mexicali have gotten along fairly well over the years, including handling immigration and smuggling issues and building what walls they need. They don't need Johnny-come-latelies to tell them what's going on in their neighborhood.
These local leaders know what they need, and are the people the White House and others should be listening to. If they need something more the country should provide it, but what they don't need shouldn't be foist upon them by Washington. What happened to the Republican principle of leaving local matters to local governments whenever possible?
Nor does the wall pictured do much to slow down tunneling or flying, over or a couple 30 foot ladders on a dark night; it's mostly show, not so much substance.
And of course it needs to be repeated: If Washington would fix the immigration system, including a quota from Mexico and other countries which actually addresses our need of more employees, there wouldn't be any need of a wall - if people who have a job waiting in the US could just pay the green card fee and enter at any of the existing checkpoints, then live and work openly in the US, they wouldn't bother sneaking over, under, around or through anything. (Asylum, I'll grant, is a little different, but it doesn't involve very many people.)
Trump said in a campaign speech that he was going to "build the wall then fix the immigration system". He should try it in the reverse order from what he's doing now.
27
Well said
3
66,000 immigrants from Mexico were allowed into the US last year, approx. 1.5 million are on the waiting list.
2
It is interesting that most of the people who love the wall live far from where it would go, while the people who would have to live with the physical reality hate it. Like many fantasy constructions, the Great Border Wall does not translate well to the real world.
23
The wall devastates the ecology along our border where migrating animals are isolated from their larger herds on either side of the border, a tragedy for the future Rio Grande River where plans are already in place to build the wall about two miles from the river above the floodplain. The YouTube link is Krista Schlyer reading and showing photos from her book Continental Divide: Wildlife, People and the Border Wall, which depicts the wildlife, ecology and people of the US-Mexico borderlands. The book was published in 2012 by Texas A&M University Press and has won several national literary awards, including the National Outdoor Book Award for 2013. https://youtu.be/3KLSqtHS6zQ
15
@Keith Completely right. But, by this point it is abundantly clear that Trump knows close to absolutely nothing about the natural world. I am concerned about the irreparable harm to nearly every species except humans by their collective ignorance. Everything else must be crushed for our glory!
1
In the big picture, $5B isn't a large number.
Has there been any itemization as to where and how this pittance will be allocated? Being a great planner would be vital to being a great negotiator. We talking more steel, barbed wire, bodies or some combination of the above?
Let's set up some accountability.
2
hilarious. does he think something like that is going to stop Deutschebank and a number of Russians coming after him for excess US$2billion he owes them?
14
There is no wall, no fence, of whatever material, whatever size, that will constrain the human need for safety and individual progress. When will this America, built and maintained by immigrants and their later generations, say that loud and clear by devising a fair and balanced entry system?
13
I read in another newspaper that this wall in this specific area has meant the the Texans along this wall have experienced no or minimal illegal immigrant and drug trafficking, as compared to other sections of the border.
4
That’s really interesting, seeing how this isn’t in Texas at all.
11
@Jane It's really not that interesting, it just means he's referring to a separate section of the wall than what the article is.
2
Thank you for this article about how this wall thing is a complete sham to satisfy Trump's ego and his campaign lies.
We all know by now that anything Trump says is very likely a lie or a planned deception. The same thing goes for his toadies like Kirstjen Nielsen, Sarah Sanders, Mike Pence, etc. How these people can get up in the morning and know they will lie and try to deceive the American public day after day is beyond me.
We have come to wearily accept this dishonesty from the administration after a continuous torrent of 2 years of lies and deception. What bothers me about this article and the photo that accompanies it is the Border Patrol agents lined up behind Nielsen and with Trump during his border visits to give their lies and distortions credibility. As a former government employee, I would never have participated in an organized public deception for the political gain of a tyrant as is seen in this photo op. Where is your self respect and sense of decency folks? Stop letting them use you like this. Please, refuse to participate to help them advance their deceptions.
10
Sounds like he got a plaque. That confirms a lot. Everything is temporary including this administration. Everyone turns to dust. I just hope I get to live long enough to his monument come tumbling down by our enlightened youth who see this charade for what it really is. "President Emma Gonzalez, Tear down this wall!"
11
Never mind the misanthropic message Nielsen and Trump publicly avow, you'd think there would be somebody high up who'd see that the optics of this photo-op is a dystopian nightmare.
4
The emperor has no clothes.
When will his staff stop supporting his fantasies?
3
I watched Trump brag and say numerous times during the 2016 campaign: "I am going to build a big wonderful CONCRETE wall."
He never said "slats."
6
I noticed this morning that Cap'n Schlump's great quarry, the White Whall, surfaced again on Twitter as he pursues it with a new tack:
"BUILD A WALL & CRIME WILL FALL!"
Ye olde harpoon was:
Trump: What'll we do?
Cult: Build the wall!
Trump: Who'll pay for it?
Cult: Mexico!
This ship of fools is fueled by false promise after false promise.
It will be a relief to see this obsession sink the SS Trump, but I just hope it doesn't take us all down with him.
8
Why do the majority of illegals enter the U.S.?It's a four letter word.WORK!
So before one puts the wagon in front of the horse,shouldn't one put things like priorities in the right order?
Who gives them work?Who hires them?
Has anyone been punished for hiring them?
Trump has hired them.My neighbor has hired them.I hired them by way of a legal contrctor who used them.
The answer is not a wall.
"Give them work.Hire them.They will come."
9
No multi-billion-dollar cheese grater ever kept a country safe!
What Trump never says is that the overwhelming majority of illegal drugs and contraband enter this country via LEGAL POINTS OF ENTRY and that illegal immigration has DECREASED markedly for the last ten years WITHOUT A CHEESE GREATER!
There is no emergency at our Southern border other than the fake one that Trump has created. The REAL issues of our economy and government are not, and have not been, addressed by the Dotard and his sycophant partisan cult.
This nation is losing ALL credibility throughout the world - due to TRUMP. Our national security is severely compromised, our economy beginning to fail, our alliances disappearing and our morals absent. Putin is amazed at the great job that his puppet has done in destabilizing the U.S. more than anyone/anything ever. Tokyo Donald is a traitor, without question.
7
I don't know why they don't just call it the Trump/Republican Iron Curtain
7
I came from another part of the world. My view of the United States was the famous JFK speech at the Berlin wall with images of East Germans charging towards the Berlin wall while being shot, escaping to freedom. When I came a few months later Ronald Reagan told Gorbachev to tear down that wall. My view was images of American GIs storming the beaches of Normandy freeing Europe from Tyrannical Nazis. I saw images of North Koreans desperately escaping from their country while being shot at with machine guns. In the brochure that they gave me when I entered this country, had moving pictures of immigrants in Ellis Island and the importance of the Statue of Liberty. We have come a long way. Now the rest of world still sees similar images but instead of us, they have Canada.
11
For the love of God, please hang the gold plaque, take a photo with Trump, invite Fox news, and, finally, call it done. (has anyone from Fox visited Calexico or talked to any residents?)
3
The purpose of the wall is not to stop illegal immigration. The purpose is for Trump to get the ignorant voters among the non wealthy to support him. The 10% couldn’t care less about a wall. Shame on them for supporting bigotry and hatred.
9
The rusted steel slats look more like a wind barrier than a wall.
And, as his been pointed out in the NYT, can easily be penetrated with a saw and a blowtorch.
5
Or if you're patient enough, a teaspoon.
1
That first image (of Nielsen in front of a row of police, in front of ugly rusty slats) is straight out of a dystopian novel.
8
Ms. Hurtado said, "Help us by knowing us." about Trump's border policies. Trump doesn't know anybody who wasn't born to wealthy fathers. He's lived by sucking money from anybody dumb enough to work for or with him, starting with his own dad and ending with Russian oligarchs. It's a fantasy to think Trump would get to know the real problems of real people on the border. At the start of his presidency, he said he only wanted to surround himself with people who made a fortune. He wants to hand the wall construction to his billionaire buddies. Care about the middleclass and poor along the border? Not Trump.
13
The de facto border with Mexico has been moved north in quite a few places. Want to know why many in these areas don't want the wall? They don't want a border.
For those who believe this is a sovereign country with a real border that separates the US from Mexico it is important to (a) mark this border and (b) defend this border and (c) prevent illegal entry -- whether the local residents care or not.
9
@Kurfco Funny, the only border changes down there in this country's history involved us taking territory and annexing territory; I'm pretty sure we never gave any of it back. Don't get wrapped up in lies and delusions.
1
There's no situation Trump can't manage to make worse.
He's so defective that I often believe he likes to wreak damage just so he can point to it and say, proudly, "I did that."
So we're stuck with a POTUS who diminishes his fellow citizens' lives just for the bragging rights.
18
Since when have Democrats been so concerned with semantics? Wall, fence, barrier, steel slats in the ground what difference does it make, we are all well aware of the intent. It's understandable that the residents of Calexico would not support anything which would impede their businesses, If I owned a business there that did a lot of work with Mexico and the wall would make it difficult or impossible for me to feed my family I wouldn't want it either. The problem is that it's not about just the people in Calexico, illegal movement across US boarders affects all Americans, in all states.
6
@Kurt Pickard
But it’s got to be at least partly about the people in Calexico, right?? Are you not concerned for them? Are you not interested in solutions that benefit them? Surely the opinion of someone in Calexico matters as much as that of someone in Murfreesboro?
Somebody should convince Trump that he invented a new wall. Its amazing, it is invisible and works better than any other wall out there. Name it after him. Give him an award. Let him have a book written about the art of the wall. But don't build a wall...
20
@AlkThank you for this. I spilled my coffee because I was laughing so hard! The funniest part is that your plan perfectly suits Trump and would probably work.
6
The so-called "wall" is a vanity project for Trump. Just imagine how billions could be spent to actually improve the situation rather than use tinker toys to build an effective and, in some ways, a destructive barrier....never mind the negative environmental repercussions.
No wall.
9
One country, under a deplorable leader, totally divided, with chaos and pain for all.
10
What is Nielsen doing in a crisis zone without a helmet? Maybe she's as daring as Ford who played football without head protection. Or, maybe the whole drama is revealing itself for what it is, a political farce. Meanwhile, as Secretary of Homeland Security, an oxymoron, she is getting paid for grandstanding with the Anglo-hombres, in flak jackets, by The Fence. There are 40,000 US Coast Guardsmen under her command who are diligently at work Without pay. Their families suffer the indignity of skimping on healthcare and stand inline at food pantries for sustenance.
Or, maybe she's doing a Prell commercial? I am not feeling secure and neither should any other sick and tired rational person.
15
Production designers for the next dystopian blockbuster, take note of the photo accompanying this article. It's exactly what we're looking for.
2
”We do not have a crisis on the border. We are not in fear of being invaded like he said,” Mr. Renison said. “What’s really laughable is you think you’re going to stop illegal immigration by constructing walls and fences.”
Kamala Harris correctly called it Trump's Vanity Project.
Kamala Harris has put the Democrats into a tailspin - a moderate running for office - not with AOC at the helm.
Now, with that said, why didn't and why haven't Pelosi and Schumer gone to the Oval Office with a shopping list with their wants, instead of primping and posing for the last 4 weeks? They would rather see Trump fail than see their own agenda succeed. Tragic.
And people wonder why the Che Guevara from Westchester has over 1.54 Twitter followers. She has some funny and extremely naive ideas but the people are listening.
Useless Washington.
2
I believe the story of the wall is the story of a lazy president and administration. Instead of going through the appropriations process that exists for funding government projects, this president chose to take the "easy" road, avoiding the usual presentations to Congress with hard facts and figures, and then picked a number from the sky, with seemingly no concrete rationale. Once pressed, a vague list of how $5.7 billion will be spent was presented.
Bottom line: do your due diligence, come before Congress and present your project, complete with facts and figures. Subject the project to the usual hearings in front of the appropriate committees, and request the money for the project on its merits. You've already wasted two years, so you better get going. And open the government today.
8
The awful feeling hanging over our nation reminds me of the time my home was burglarized, my few prized possessions ripped away senselessly by strangers. This endless shutdown, and Trump's obsessive Border Wall fantasy, are destroying whatever trust we had left in our Republican leaders. Our National Parks are literally getting trashed, the Coast Guard and TSA are struggling to protect our waterways and airports, property on our southern border is essentially vandalized with an ugly Border Wall monstrosity. On top of this, a million people are missing paychecks, some permanently. For the entire nation. this is a real, viscera and personal gut punch . We will never be the same again.
6
Seems that the plan is that once trump has his wall, we will all be imprisoned along with him. His will likely be a smaller cell within that of the rest of the country.
2
Why are some people so afraid to be a free nation?
Seriously, I would love to hear from some honest to goodness trump supporters, who without any hint of hatred, or racial intonations (or just thinking I'm stupid because we disagree) might explain to me what he or she personally think of "The Wall?"
My thoughts? Such a symbol of hatred and fear is embarrassing. I don't know why it's just the way I am.
For work purposes, I and my wife have moved several times.
It is not an easy thing to do.
We moved to Canada in late 1990 and back to the states in 2002. Just moving to a different country was stressful in so many ways, and Canada is an English speaking country.
I remember whenever I needed to go to the embassy on business, it was always comforting and stirring to see the American Flag.
The point is, I was a middle-aged man in good shape with positive employment, adequate cash in my pocket, my entire family around me and it was still a daunting move. Even with professional movers doing the hard work.
I personally have tremendous respect for people with the courage to strike out and seek a better life for themselves and their families.
We used to call such people "Pioneers" and respect their grit and determination. Wait! Most of them were Western European or at least not Asian or African.
The thought of building "trump's wall" is too symbolic of a fearful and defensive nature.
The state of the planet is such that we need to focus on handling mass migration. Seriously.
6
The people called pioneers came to this country and had zero support. No free medical care no free schools no free school lunch no supplemental housing.
2
The entire governmental face of the United States government is now focused on one element: a wall.
The entire history of the USA is painted with the color "we are better than them." With the exception of the original people (who had great freedom and faced great challenges to survive in nature, ll Americans have their roots someplace else (mine were Irish from the 1880s and Serbian from pre-WWI).
PT Barnum said, "You fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time." Internationally the USA is a laughing-stock because its president and his fixation on a wall that achieves very little. It is absolutely incredible that so much attention is paid to so little.
6
Has anyone noticed how reluctant Trump's Know-Nothing party (formerly known as the Republican Party) is these days at quoting Ronald Reagan?
This is probably why:
“Behind me stands a wall that encircles the free sectors of this city, part of a vast system of barriers that divides the entire continent …. [T]hose barriers cut across … in a gash of barbed wire, concrete, dog runs, and guard towers. Farther south, there may be no visible, no obvious wall. But there remain armed guards and checkpoints all the same--still a restriction on the right to travel, still an instrument to impose upon ordinary men and women the will of a totalitarian state. Yet it is here ... you have imprinted this brutal division of a continent upon the mind of the world. …
“Today I say: As long as the gate is closed, as long as this scar of a wall is permitted to stand, it is not the German question alone that remains open, but the question of freedom for all mankind….
“Perhaps this gets to the root of the matter, to the most fundamental distinction of all…. The totalitarian world produces backwardness because it does such violence to the spirit, thwarting the human impulse to create, to enjoy…. The totalitarian world finds even symbols of love and of worship an affront….”
1
No need to waste money on a wall. The military can lay a field of landmines all along the border. Works for other countries and doesn't require the support of the Democratic party in Congress.
2
It’s not barbed wire, it’s concertina cable. Branding is everything.
3
If that slatted wall is supposed to be big and beautiful then you have a different definition of big and beautiful than I do. Even the Berlin wall was more beautiful than this and that was ugly.
3
The more Liberals move to the left (Abolish ICE, Citizenship for illegals etc), the more Repubs move to the right (Wall, banning muslims etc).
where is the middle ground?
The Dems need to acknowledge that illegal immigration is a major issue and Repubs need to understand that the Wall wont work.
3
@jack...Most people I know want real border security but realize that a wall is a political symbol with no real purpose other than Trumps vanity.
10
The picture of Kirstjen Nielsen, the secretary of Homeland Security by the "not-a-wall" looks right out of a futuristic dystopian film.
Are we there yet?
5
Those metal beams will really stop drug smuggling. They really outwitted the narcos this time!
2
Only reason he appointed Kirstjen Nielsen was to improve his Nielsen ratings.
1
If Trump cared about national security, he would leave immigrants alone, and work with Mexico to fight the cartels who flood our streets with drugs and slaughter people in Mexico. The same goes for working with Honduras to fight MS-13. But Trump has never shown any inclination to actually help anyone anywhere. It's as if he made a bet he could go his entire presidency without ever doing the right thing for the right reasons, even once.
359
@Steve Remember, the wall has always been just a distraction from DT's, and his administration's criminal activities. When I lived in El Centro around 2001, contractors bussed around 13,000 farm workers daily from Mexicali to Imperial County fields. l imagine the situation is about the same today.
27
There's been no solution to this problem for decades..... governmental corruption, the murder of prosecutors, judges, law enforcement and elected officials....... absent all that, Mexico could have had a successful and strengthening economy. Imagine the available work force there rather than going half way across the world. But it's all Trump's fault..... of course it is......right?
@Steve
They killed Pablo Escobar in 1993. The cocaine keeps coming.
Add to that, marijuana, meth, and heroin.
We will never stop the drugs coming with a war on drugs.
Only by stopping the demand will the drugs stop coming.
12
Physical barriers do not secure a border. Any barrier can be breached, surmounted or tunneled under. Even a 30-foot steel wall serves as little more than a "speed bump" for those determined to get past it.
Monitoring is what secures a border, and in the 21st Century technology has made monitoring not only more effective, but more COST-effective than ever.
Recently, The Times' Bret Stephens wrote a column about the "smart fence" that secures Israel’s border. It is little more than a standard chain-link fence equipped with sensors. The sensors are monitored at a central location 24/7. Any attempt to breach, and a rapid-response team pounces. http://tinyurl.com/yal659ew
This high-tech approach, Stephens adds, is made even more effective by close cooperation between security officials on both sides of the border.
The Israelis call this a "smart fence," Stephens says. Why could it not also be dubbed a "virtual wall," the 21st Century's answer to a traditional physical wall, providing greater security at far less cost to the taxpayers, and without the negative symbolism of a massive physical barrier.
There’s an old saying in politics: "You can’t beat somebody with nobody. The same can be said of an idea. You want to beat Trump's wall, Democrats? Then offer a better idea, like a "virtual wall," and beat the drum like hell for it.
6
I keep thinking about how Republicans keep saying we shouldn't have a federal solution for a state, local, or individual problems, but as soon as it's something that they personally approve of this distinction goes out the window.
Trump's administration and Congressional Republicans aren't listening to the local border towns that would be seriously hurt or even wrecked by his wall project. However, Trump said he listened to the steel workers, the coal miners and the farmers. To be a good leader, you need to listen to all kinds of locals, not just a few groups here or there.
He's not supposed to be President of Trump Nation; he's supposed to be President of the United States.
9
@Jacob Sommer
Immigration and national security are exclusively a Federal responsibility. If this country were invaded by another country, it wouldn't be OK for a particular state to welcome them in. There is no state's right to violate immigration law or to induce others to do so. And it doesn't matter what might be good for their business.
2
The article talked about people from both sides crossing the border for consumer and entertainment purposes. It wasn't about welcoming illegal activity. I don't at all feel threatened by people who are shopping, getting medical care, and going to the movies. Why do you? Many of those crossing back and forth are Americans. It's good for everyone to have a helpful rather than an adversarial relationship with our neighbors to the south. That doesn't require condoning lawlessness at all. And it definitely doesn't require building a wall through wildlife corridors in areas far from centers of commerce.
Seeing that shutting the government down helps terrorists and hurts national security, I think the wall is being built to keep us in when his policies and governance lead to a collapse of society as we know it.
7
Last weekend I hunted along this stretch of border. There is certainly room to improve the physical barriers in the area and there are portions near Calexico which have no/minimal barriers, but are easily within walking distance of roads on both sides of the border. We found empty water bottles (Mexican brands) and pieces of tarp which are wrapped around shoes to conceal footprints. Clearly people are crossing easily. However, the technology which Border Patrol uses, can make up for lack of fencing. It took a minute or two to be approached by Border Patrol when we stopped next to a barrier designed to stop vehicles. The agent who approached us was polite but warned us to lock our car (to avoid unwanted stowaways) and to be wary of anyone we encountered. She had already caught one group who crossed illegally that AM and said the area can be dangerous.
On the other hand, I cross the border frequently on foot at the busy San Ysidro port of entry and have seen people arrested many times as they attempted to cross into the US with another person's ID, for example. I also frequently fish in Mexican waters and launch my boat from Mission Bay in San Diego. I've only been stopped by Border Patrol a couple times.
Build a wall and you'll see more tunnels, boat traffic, and crossing with others' IDs. Why not allocate more resources to CBP and Border Patrol and let them allocate it accordingly between fencing, tech, more agents, etc? A bit of this, a bit of that...
11
@Patrick
You are exactly right. Border security should be a system of reinforcing techniques and methods. We should be talking about "and, and, and", not "or.
3
Walls may be perceived as useful by some for keeping people out. But they can also be used to keep people in.
How long before we can't go to Mexico because the U.S. fears losing another tax-paying citizen?
There is already a growing ex-pat movement out of the U.S.
Many retirees are already living in Mexico because they can get good medical care for a fraction of what it costs here.
Not all of Mexico is drug-ridden and dangerous, as "some people are saying." In fact, it's looking better and better, the longer Trump is in office.
10
I am a bit concerned with the part where Border Patrol officers asked townspeople several times to avoid participating in the drama. A similar thing happened to a recent event I was attending where we were asked something similar, and if we had an alternative views, to please leave. While courtesy is important, I am concerned that there is a focus on appearances which may speak to our sense of politeness, but may also be like asking us to suppress our own opinions. This woman sounds like she wants to say she isn't happy with it, but to be polite, she is being asked to say nothing and to smile.
Isn't it a concern that we have an administration more interested in optics than in really solving any problems or understanding real conditions, wants, or concerns on the ground? If I were president, or even any concerned CEO, I would want to go around hearing what my people are really thinking, good or not, not interested in creating a seamless vision of harmony and agreement.
7
That photo looks straight out of a dystopian film. Unfortunately, knowing the context of the image does little to combat its dystopian appearance.
4
I am a daily NYT reader, a “progressive Democrat,” do not believe “the wall” is the answer, and I’m proud to be part of that tribe. However, I want to read/see/hear more opinions from those with whom I disagree. In this article, specifically, there were no cited interviews with folks who agree with the wall, who think illegal immigration is a huge problem, who voted for Trump. Just a reference to one man who used to identify as Republican. This article could be much more balanced and impartially written.
9
@Michael S., if you want, try reading a conservative online publication (i. e. Newsmax ) the stuff readers post is thoughtless & idiotic. It makes you realize how public education has failed miserably.
1
Those who support a wall (and yes, it is a wall) like this simply have no sense of history or context. Walls like this never have a happy ending for anyone, and for what is supposed to be the consummate open society (the U.S.), it is beyond a dereliction of all that we stand for, even if and as we strive to develop sensible immigration policy. Further, they have no sense of what might happen in the future -- there may well come a time when a catastrophe of some sort that right now is unforeseen might prompt droves of people from the U.S. to need to make a mass exodus to South of the Border.
4
I grew up in Brawley, which is 22 miles North of Calexico. I think my family went to Calexico and Mexicali maybe once a month. We went to Mexicali for the Chinese food, of all things. At that time there wasn't much of anything dividing the 2 towns. I hadn't been to Calexico for a long time, so I was shocked at the size of the barrier or whatever you want to call it, when I went to Calexico and Mexicali this winter. I also couldn't believe mess that this port of entry has become. Imperial is the poorest county in California. It needs Federal help much more than it needs a wall or the mess that Trump seems made of our relations with Mexico. I would rather is $5 billion invested in drug treatment programs than any more money in a wall. Fixing our drug culture would do more to stop immigrants from Latin America than any wall will do. The drug cartels only exist because of the American drug culture.
13
You can not tell lies to create fear forever, sooner or later Americans will see the truth. It is imperative that those elected Representatives come to this conclusion and understand the truth is the only message to deliver to fulfill their oath to protect and defend America. Who would have thought the threat would come from our President.
3
Slavery is alive and well in the US. First, illegal immigrants are forced to work for unlivable wages and threatened with legal action if they don't do what they are told.
Second, federal government employees are forced to work without being paid.
Third , this is being done to supposedly solve the illegal immigration crisis which is not a crisis at all.
Fourth, Republicans had total control of the gov't for 2 years and made no move to create and enact comprehensive immigration laws and policy, preferring to scream emergency and build that wall
I live on the main path from Nogales to the North and I see no crisis only people in need on both sides of the border.
Stop the shutdown and start governing like you were elected to do, Dems and Rep.
Slavery is against the law and it is still here. Open the Government now!
5
The wall is a huge farce! A very costly one! Anyone who cares to know the truth about immigration can easily learn the facts, and realize the Donald has been lying and promoting fear! Fear, lies, hate and division have been the strategy of the Republicans for years.
Also, Donald is afraid of Coulter, Rush, and all the other hateful talking heads! The. There's Putin, who must be so pleased to see our government is complete disarray! Donald has been an exceptional asset!
To the Republicans and McConnell whose side are you on ?! America or Donald's?! YOU had two years to fund Donald's wall completely and you didn't...why?! Hypocrites!
Not a single dollar of hard earned American taxpayer money for Donald's wall! Not one!!!
25
@Mari
Yes- We are better off using our, "hard earned American taxpayer money," by giving it to thousands of undocumented immigrant workers and "asylum seekers."
3
@Aaron....The backlog of asylum seekers is more than 740,000. Maybe if there were enough immigration judges to handle the load expeditiously (more than 90% are rejected) asylum seekers would stop coming. But no, let's spend $5.7 billion on a wall - and next time an appropriation bill comes around Trump can shut down the government again and get $5.7 billion more.
3
The GOP hates Our government and want to destroy any part of it thats not making the ultra rich richer.
This "wall" is supposed to stop drugs from crossing the border? LOL... they can't just pass them through the slats?
What a joke.
14
@Chris ....Not to mention they are already using drones and the fact that 90% passes through legal check points.
2
A wall is a lot better than drugs, guns, and illegals. People can always come in legally just the way all other immigrants have come to the USA.
3
The point is that the wall isn’t actually doing anything to stop the tunnels where illegal activity is actually happening. We definitely need border security and a system that can handle large numbers of asylum seekers, but a gigantic expensive wall is not a sensible solution and is not supported by the majority of citizens actually living on the border or working security at the border. It’s a big glitzy boondoggle that Trump has gotten fixated on to the extent that he is bankrupting federal workers and harming our existing security forces.
226
@Sandra J. Amodio Sandra, you're right! They can come in legally. And then stay here... forever. Which is how most "illegal" immigrants end up in the United States. So, why are we supposed to spend $5.7 billion on a wall that does nothing to stop it?
8
@Alexandra Hamilton I agree with you 100%. Trump can spend 70+ billion dollars building a wall (not counting maintenance costs). It takes some 20k tunnel to render it useless. Big waste of US resources, reminded me how he bankrupted his own casinos at AC. Frankly, nobody will do such things after the industrial revolution. Are we still talking about medieval defense systems? Make America Great Again ?!
15
Know who REALLY needs a Wall ??? Canada.
Seriously.
11
I always enjoy your comments Phyliss!!
2
Hey, Nortes! Stop snorting cocaine and stop smoking pot. Without the funds they take from selling these things, the gangs of Central Americ would lack funds to buy military-grade weapons here in the States and would have to go back to shaking down school kids for their lunch money.
8
@Mark Hughes
Better still legalize it and use the resulting tax revenue for fighting the scourge of alcohol addiction, the nation's new #1 cause of death.
1
This is just plain ugly. And Kirstjen Nielsen is proud of it? Trump should get China to show him how to build a wall. It worked for them, didn't it? Trump's Folly. Amazing.
6
Nice to hear comments from the ‘real’ people who actually live on the border. Very interesting.
18
At some point Trump mentioned that the Wall that the State of Israel built, is working wonderfully. It seems strange that the biggest so called Democracy in the world, is taking Israel’s apartheid as sample how “amazingly” a wall can work.
8
I photographed the first 14 miles of the border fence at Tijuana in 1997 for a project with the La Jolla Museum of Contemporary Art and one of the first things I noticed was the absence of razor wire. This was deliberate because the government did not want to associate the fence with the barriers of repressive regimes such as East Germany. Sadly this is no longer true. Trump seems happy to align himself with the fence builders everywhere.
19
@Geoffrey James I had a conversation with a Trump supporter last week that thought that posting guards with machine guns every 50 yards on a concrete wall along the entire border, and shooting anyone that neared the wall would be the solution. Some of these people have completely shut down any semblance of rational thinking. Another Trump supporter I know advocated for restoring public hangings on Facebook the same week....
4
While a wall might make the Border Patrol's job easier in some applications, it would be much cheaper to discourage people from coming here illegally by removing the incentives to do so:
- Make eVerify mandatory.
- Prosecute employers and landlords who enable illegals.
- Deny all services to illegals, including schooling for their kids.
They won't come if there's nothing here for them. Those already here will leave without the need to chase them down.
10
@Amanda
Include the elimination of the lunacy of Birthright Citizenship. As long as illegal "immigrants" can have US citizen kids, paid for by the taxpayer via Medicaid, we will have US citizens to support.
4
@Amanda the incentive for coming here is to not get murdered by cartels in their home countries. Denying services to undocumented refugees helps no one.
1
@Amanda
Liberals don't want that! Liberals want thousands of illegals to enter and have children [future Democrats]. That's the hidden truth behind all of this- The wall is a farce and any common sense suggestion to curb illegal entry [i.e. e-verify] is quickly shot down by the left.
3
Mending Wall
By Robert Frost
Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
That sends the frozen-ground-swell under it,
And spills the upper boulders in the sun;
And makes gaps even two can pass abreast.
The work of hunters is another thing:
I have come after them and made repair
Where they have left not one stone on a stone,
But they would have the rabbit out of hiding,
To please the yelping dogs. The gaps I mean,
No one has seen them made or heard them made,
But at spring mending-time we find them there.
I let my neighbour know beyond the hill;
And on a day we meet to walk the line
And set the wall between us once again.
There where it is we do not need the wall:
He is all pine and I am apple orchard.
My apple trees will never get across
And eat the cones under his pines, I tell him.
. . . .
"Why do they make good neighbours? Isn't it
Where there are cows? But here there are no cows.
Before I built a wall I'd ask to know
What I was walling in or walling out,
And to whom I was like to give offence.
Something there is that doesn't love a wall,
He says again, "Good fences make good neighbours."
7
I don't understand why people aren't stating the obvious, but its not a wall, its a curtain; as curtains have slats. Its an iron curtain.
17
Trump’s “iron curtain”. I like that. It shows him up for the little dictator he is.
3
@Norman Klein Vertical blinds?
I'd really like to get a hold on one of those "It's not a wall" T-shirts
6
It looks like I could just stick my hand through the wall and pass drugs to the other side.
10
The wall serves the same purpose as Jim-Crow legislation. It legalizes racism.
That is its emotional appeal to Trump's followers.
The rest is just a lot of baloney.
20
A good circular saw with a diamond blade, and less than 10 minutes, would make Trump's $5.7 billion wasted money.
13
If they build this thing they had better appropriate another 100 million for an army of welders to do daily repairs. LOL!
Reporting such as this exposes how Trump as president is nothing but a bad virtual reality show. The issue of border security, fear of invading Mexicans (criminals who also, apparently are eager to work, stealing our jobs, too) exists for old, white or simply out of touch Americans, living far from any border, who grasp onto Trump’s and Fox News’ Oz-like projections. Cue the flying monkeys.
10
I suspect that many Americans do not realize that just about any middle class or upper class Mexican citizen can apply for, and obtain, a Border Crossing Card (BCC). The BCC document is similar to a visa and allows the bearer an unlimited number of crossings into the United States, with the limitation of remaining within 25 miles of the border in California and Texas, 55 miles of the border in New Mexico, and 75 miles of the border in Arizona. (The higher range limits in New Mexico and Arizona are due to the distance to major shopping locations such as Las Cruces and Tucson.) The visits by BCC holders are very important for the economies of the border regions of all of the states on the U.S.-Mexico border. This is one of the reasons why there is little support for the Wall from persons who actually live on or near the U.S.-Mexico border.
7
@Allan Langland...You might have added that 600,000 cross the border every day and any one of them could become an illegal immigrant if they wanted to.
What I do not understand is that while we know that most of the people trying to get across are from Central America, (many less from Mexico now) we are doing nothing to put pressure on or assist those governments in improving conditions in the countries of origin of the people trying to get in. It appears that gang violence is a big factor in the people of these countries not feeling safe, and not able to earn a decent living, why not start there? Why not encourage the global community to be pushing for humanitarian solutions in the places where there are problems instead of focusing on The Trump Wall?
14
I’ve been saying that for years. I’ve also been saying that the U.S. needs to start looking into its failed Central American policies that created this refugee crisis in the first place. However, getting American’s to accept and resume responsibility for the problems they create is difficult at best.
5
@Bryan I absolutely agree with you Bryan, but many Americans are wholly unaware of US policy (current and historical) in Latin America, and that those policies are largely responsible for the terrible conditions from which our southern friends are trying to escape.
3
Generally the concern of border towns are long lines to cross, as in who wants to wait hours and hours to go shopping at an outlet store? Or go to a dentist? Border security generally makes little economic sense to the locals, so I can imagine the resentment of being a political prop.
7
A few years ago, my husband and I drove to Big Bend for a nice vacation. We drove along the Rio Grande for miles and miles and miles, through some incredibly desolate countryside, and practically the only vehicles passing us in either direction were Border Patrol agents!
We never ventured across the border into Mexico, but we were nevertheless stopped at a check-point two times, questioned, and our sport-ute received a quick once-over. The agents were courteous but business-like. You would not want to mess with them, I can assure you.
My husband and I felt completely safe the entire time we were a literal stone's throw away from Mexico -- with no wall to protect us from invading hordes, no less.
My point is that the people we already have in place along the Texas border are doing a great job -- without a wall. In fact, I keep asking where a wall along the Texas border would be placed. Would it be put in the middle of the river? Would it be constructed on our side of the Rio Grande, thereby denying river access to wildlife and humans. (Some people actually use the river for recreation, if you can imagine that. River rafting on the Rio Grande is actually a "thing.") Would Mexico let us build it on their side of the river? (I can hear you laughing.)
The whole wall idea is a complete folly. It's so "low-tech" and "last-century." There are lots of better and more effective ways of securing a border. I pray that common sense and reason will prevail.
12
Customs and immigration figured out a long time ago that the most effective way to control illegal immigrstion was with spot checks on the highways and elsewhere. Trump's Maginot Line will work about as well as other expensive static defences, which is to say, not at all.
I'm concerned that the next step after certain failure is the placement of the military equiped with search lights and machine guns for the length of the border. That's insane right, but remember who's president.
8
I've been waiting to hear about plaques going up on the big beautiful wall bearing the brand of Trump. All he ever wanted was a testament to his greatest topped with razor wire to stop the tunneling. Problem solved.
4
The main reason for people illegally crossing the border is for employment. Workers that the agricultural industrial complex could not operate without. These same employers are also against a guest worker program that would effectively end illegal border crossings. Maybe it's because someone that is here legally for work is more likely to organize and demand living wages.
I live near Immokalee, Fl and see the conditions in which the immigrant field workers live in. I personally know more than a few of the farmers that employ these "illegal" workers, every one is a trump supporter. The hypocrisy is staggering. These farm owners should be in jail for employing the people they so detest.
11
I agree that an "Iron Curtain" is much more appropriate!
1
Have we learned nothing from Game of Thrones? Walls no matter how tall or how “impenetrable” rarely work. However, this President’s wall seems more like it would be informed by “Ozymandias” than Game of Thrones.
7
@Island man Game of Thrones is fantasy; this isn't. A more pertinent question is whether we have learned enough to realize that Trump's comparisons to the wall in Israel or the Great Wall in China don't hold up if you exercise just a few brain cells.
2
Looks like an art installation to me.
1
60 year old migrant to old to shimmy up pole.
Takes throw bag( a rock with a piece of cord attached) throws rock over wall, hauls line up that hauls up rope ladder. cuts wire at top.
30 seconds
New sport at the x games on tv.
My Mar-a Lago membership (and offering a piece of the contract) allows me to discuss with the presidents advisers my fool proof barrier.
A moat with Sharknados and Octosharks.
3
It's not the wall.. It's our bent system granting anyone "asylum" then allowing them to remain in the U.S. until a legal hearing. Our immigration laws need to be changed. Having worked in Tijuana, I can tell you these people are not asylum seekers.. They just want jobs- education and a future for their kids. Not one of the people I've spoken with ever mentioned fleeing "gangs" or "spousal abuse." My heart goes out to them but it isn't fair to the many thousands who are playing by the rules and waiting their turn.
If a liberal was waiting in line at Whole Foods with a liberal "service dog" and somebody cut in front them.. The liberal would scream and their dog would bark! But liberals could care less having thousands of illegal immigrants cut in front of people who have filed their paperwork and waited years to enter legally.
This is what I call the liberal hypocrisy.. Something only matters unless it affects them directly. The Whole Foods [with K9 companion] litmus tests validates my thesis.
3
Just because you worked in Tolerance does not make you psychic, so that you can log into these people's minds and tell what they have been through, or what they think.
Tijuana is one tiny little speech on a 2000 mile border.
That would be like me saying all young white men are mass shooters because I used to live in Colorado.
3
Why is it that the people that support trump's monument live nowhere near the border and have no problem employing "illegal" immigrants?
9
Washington Post recently reported on a new antibiotic resistant bacteria affecting U.S. patients going to Mexico for treatment. Open border advocates could care less about potential devastation to U.S. border communities.
5
Your argument makes absolutely no sense. A wall won’t stop patients bringing bacteria or infectious viruses back and forth. The visitors to Mexico are not crossing illegally. The solution to that is affordable healthcare and dental care here at home.
Not funding a wall has absolutely nothing to do with wanting unsecured open borders either. There is a huge budget already for border security and Democrats are willing to increase that budget. They just have not seen any data to convince them that a giant wall is a cost effective or sensible solution along the entire border. Trump has done NOTHING to supply well researched evidence that his wall could actually work. He has just fixated on a simplistic idea, said “it will work”, and figures if he repeats himself enough everyone will believe him. He might just as well be a toddler screaming “I want it” over and over again. That is not the kind of argument rational adults are persuaded by.
5
@clarity007 Conspiracy theorists could care less about the big picture. I don't think a wall would do much to stop the spread of bacteria among people who cross the border for medical treatment; they are 100 percent legal. Perhaps we should just close the border completely?
1
Illegal Immigration is a crisis. It's a crisis in lack of dignity. I know a little bit about illegal immigration. I was an undocumented worker for most of the 80's.
Immigration has changed the cultural landscape of southwestern communities for the worse. This cultural change has created a veritable caste system and has reduced illegal immigrants to hazy characters in an impressionist painting easily missed in the composition.
A critical viewer will see crouched images in open fields picking crops, in mechanic shops, laying tiles, making beds in motels and washing dishes in restaurants. That's it, illegal immigrants are reduced to two-dimensional images with no depth, dreams and aspirations.
Reality is stark and provides a cruel an needed contrast, illegal immigrants and their children need services which requires expenses in schooling, medical services, etc.
I've been in Calexico mid-summer, I don't know what the point of this story is other than there have been aesthetic changes, but I suspect it has changed little since I was there.
There used to be a time in Latin American countries when an emerging middle class considered making the trip north to the U.S. a sign of defeat and desperation. We need to go that place in time. A time with dignity, when people didn't have to make the trip north.
Assimilating to a different culture is a never ending struggle, but what frightens me the most, is for my children to remain as hazy characters in the painting.
106
@F1Driver
Yes we need efficient legal immigration with careful background checks. If legal immigration wasn't measured in decades, illegal immigration would be less popular.
6
@F1Driver I think this is absolutely so - though I am not certain that the thought to go north should automatically equated with defeat.
However, the current debate about a wall does not connect to the issues spurring immigration or any attempts on our side to deal with immigration governmentally or societally - other than to construct physical barriers.
What's the point fo the article - that at least many in Calexico do not see the same issues or same reality that president Trump describes in talking about the area. and that when he does talk about it, he does not all about what they do see as the issues.
Again, the lack of connection to a need for a wall.
8
@F1Driver I so agree with you! Our undocumented immigrants are pushed to the shadows, and ripe for exploitation, if they even get here safely.
8
Cartels must be overjoyed. Instead of all the expense of tunneling, all they have to do now is pass the drugs thru the slats.
17
Maybe the next administration will tear down this stupidity and ship segments off to Iowa, Alabama, Wyoming and Georgia - wherever citizens voted for the monstrosity.
20
Agree!
1
This story really is hiding behind its headline. I thought it was going to be about slats vs concrete or something else based on the headline, a story that's been told 100 x and almost caused me to pass it by. Its really about twin cities and a symbiotic relationship. Its about real people with businesses and families on both sides of the border. And its a start at giving a voice to the people who will really be affected by this wall. If NYT can shred the construction material aspect and go deeper into the "on the ground" impact this could be a really good story.
11
Don't we need one of these lovely fences all up and down our coastlines too to keep out the "boat people"?
3
"We don't need a wall. We've been struggling to get the money for a door." I guess her opinion doesn't matter. She just LIVES there...
16
The insanity goes on and on. Personally, I would find it both psychologically depressing and morally empty to see a wall topped with barbed wire in my home town every day. That exists for a person occupying the White House who is basically a perpetual adolescent with a grade school mentality.
I live near the Canadian border. We have immigrants making their way up North by the droves with nothing but the tattered parkas and dirty clothes on their backs- children and babies too. I think to myself, " But by the grace of God there goes I."
9
America doesn't need a wall but Trump definitely does, elsewise Ann Coulter won't vote for him. (Remember when she said she knew he was a lazy ignoramus but she didn't care?)
How does a $20-30 billion, US taxpayer funded, wall do anything about the hardworking human beings who are already in the country? I know many immigrants - some undoubtedly undocumented - through former jobs. That's how I know what a positive force they are in America life. While I grow increasingly ashamed of being an American, they still believe. Ironic, isn't it?
I believe the right's obsession with the word "illegal" is just their way of trying to put a PC face on naked racism.
I believe we'd all be better off learning a second language (take your choice) than building walls. The bilingual person always has the advantage.
Walls, like tariffs, are for a party with no ideas.
14
Amen! Well said!
2
Let's move the White House to the Alamo. President Trump can direct his wall-building effort from there.
7
There has been far, far, far too much attention given to "Trump's wall", and we all know this is what he craves most (attention). Therefore, please stop media coverage of the same "story" for the 1 millionth time . Thank you.
6
Walls are not only built to keep people out, but to keep people in.
Consider that possibility as well.
8
Migrant shimmys up pole secures rope( woven from hemp discards) ladder, cuts wire, drops descending rope on other side.
30 seconds and 10 dollars in material
6
Umm, OK, it's not a wall if two people can stand on opposite sides and hand drugs and cash to each other.
Why is everyone so caught up in what the thing is called? What does it matter? The point is that some places are Mexico, and some places are the United States. Everyone needs to deal with that. There should be a clear distinction on which is which.
2
@Nadia Yes, they should draw a line in the sand.
2
A better solution? Way more Global Entry interviews and cards on both sides. The crossing goes both ways.
Here is San Diego, a smoother, easier, more reliable border crossing will help the economy and help both cities grow and thrive. At increasing rates, San Diegans use the Tijuana airport (cheaper, sometimes more convenient flights), head south to Baja to enjoy the natural shorelines, go to concerts, doctors, dentists, shops.
The border crossings go both ways — in our towns, we want them to be healthier. Crossing should be a positive experience — in both directions.
9
Drugs enter the United States for only one reason: people use them. It is the law of supply and demand. Meantime, drug users are oblivious to the crime, death, social degradation, and government corruption they cause - on BOTH sides of the border - and beyond.
11
Those slats can be cut through, as demonstrated by Homeland Security, so no need for tunnels.
One possible scenario would be that some enterprising capitalist will come along with a saw, and cut through a slat cleanly enough to replace it when not in use. That way border patrol agents won't see the breach as they drive by. Then at night they'll sit out there and charge an entry fee for people to pass though the fence.
What a huge waste of money, and added stress to the people who live down at the border.
The money would be better spent on better technology and more manpower.
2
The fencing pictured are the steel posts that can be sawed through with a Sawzall, available in any hardware store in both countries. You can make it 100 feet tall, it makes no difference.
Trump's America, using innocent people as pawns whenever possible. While ignoring the fact that these border cities are among the safest cities in the country and have been for years. The border unites, not divides, them. From villages to towns to cities.
5
Reality Check if mexico wants send criminals here into usa.Then usa must take it as act of war an invade mexico an clean up the crime all way to panama canel,end of the need for wall. Freedom should be for all not just for usa. Wall is sign we allow mexico an central america to free for all where crime is excepted way life to do onto one another.
1
Just like we have managed to make Iraq and Afghanistan so drug free and law abiding?
1
What else would you expect from a "tax and immigration" consulting office business. The more illegals who arrive in her town the more money she makes.
3
This liberal lawyer should not look at it as she's being in prison, she should look at it as our government is protecting her, typical response from someone who makes her living on illegal immigration.....
2
Trump's wall is the physical symbol of his racist dream to keep brown people out of America. Ray Sipe
9
To all members of Congress: Please, Please, Please, temporarily suspend (1) Party affiliations (2) Local "pork" bills (3) Re-election campaigns. Of the utmost importance (quoting the name of Spike Lee's brilliant film), "Do The Right Thing", aka "Do Your Job", and get this madman, loose cannon, dictator wannabe Donald Trump out of the White House and (potentially), into prison.
Specifically, I am referring to Speaker of the House of Representatives - Nancy Pelosi, and President pro tempore of the Senate - Chuck Grassley.
I would bet a dollar to a nickel, there is far more than enough damning information available, to legally do this. Collusion and Conspiracy have "with the *(almost) utmost assurance", already taken place. Who knows, possibly treason may have been committed (let's hope not); However, if it has been done, it was most likely done out of ignorance ("one can only hope").
* the average USA citizen can see this
So do it already!
3
I look at this idiot, Kirstjen Nielson, and I look at that ugly fence of steel, and I can't help but think of images of the Berlin Wall growing up.
What a really disgusting representation of what America has become under these morons.
22
Of course Mitch and his crew of fools cannot hear the words or acknowledge the facts from Americans residing in the border that don't want a wall. All they see is that our naked President has clothes.
8
Mr Putin: Tell him to tear down this wall!
(So the rest of the country can go back to work and get done sleep...)
4
No matter what you call this wretched barrier...wall, fence, this 30 foot tall barrier is a shameful symbol of American hatred, bigotry and exclusion can never be called beautiful.
btw... besides Trump's slatted fence being easily sawed through, it sure provides a lot of easy openings by which to hand drugs through to the other side.
8
According to the MAGA world view, all problems in America were caused by foreigners, so a wall make sense. But the wall won’t really solve our internal problems, so the next step will be mass deportations. But that will get ugly fast, so mass incarcerations will happen. But jails are so expensive to run.
This is the slippery slope toward a “final solution” that Germany fell into. We must stop the wall and stop this MAGA movement before it’s too late.
3
These slats are great! Easy to slip a rope around, climb right up and over. Awesome!
5
Nero had his fiddle. Your President has his wall.
17
Of course the locals arent the only ones who know a costly wall is ineffectivene folly. Conservative friends go slack jawed when I play them clips of St. Regan discussing his belief of an open border with Mexico.
3
“ In October, the Homeland Security secretary, Kirstjen Nielsen, visited to unveil a plaque crediting the president with the barrier.“
A president proud of barbed wire.
15
Just wait, if he gets his wall it will have a huge gold “TRUMP” written on it. I am surprised he hasn’t planted marigolds on the White House front lawn spelling out TRUMP in giant letters. If he was allowed to I am sure there would be a big gaudy gold Trump sign on the White House roof.
1
The southwestern states, all of them, including Texas, were stolen from Mexico. It is just that Mexicans live in those states. If you want a wall, build it along the original Mexican border to keep Americans out of Mexico
3
In my view, the problem with republicans is they try to take a complex, multi-faceted issue and propose a simplistic, ineffective solution. Are there areas where fencing is helpful? Sure, else there would be no fencing. Is a giant monolith to Trump helpful or effective? Heck no! It's stupid.
On the other hand, the problem with democrats is they take a complex, multi-faceted issue and propose no solution at all, or propose realistic solutions and then do nothing to push them through.
Republicans manipulate through fear and democrats just think everyone who doesn't agree with them is either evil, dumb or both. Republicans want everything to go back in time and democrats make promises about forging ahead to the future and then fail miserably.
This isn't working.
135
@Patty O - Democrats hadn't controlled either house of Congress for 8 years. If we expect Democrats to actually accomplish something, we have to elect Democrats to control both houses of Congress and the presidency.
67
@Patty O
Perfectly stated. It's a shame we don't have a political party that combines the best of both worlds, but our current system traps us between extremes.
It's easy to sit at the dinner table and propose effective strategies for dealing with problems that anyone could get behind, but politically impossible to implement anything useful.
14
@Patty O First paragraph: "areas where fencing is helpful? Sure, else there would be no fencing." The fencing is political and racist-why is there no fencing at the US/Canada border? The majority of drugs go through port of entries in vehicles that are not inspected at the US/Mexico border. Let us not forget tunnels and planes. (Also 41 suspected terrorists entered via Canada border ; 6 via Mexico border.)
"Democrats think everyone who doesn't agree with them is either evil, dumb, or both" Actually, that is a perfect description of Republicans-I read many comment sections in different MSM, and, in general, that applies more to Republicans. They excel at derogatory name-calling.
"Democrats fail miserably"-well, yes, they can't get past the Senate and the present occupier of the WH.
The Republicans are no more enlightened on effective border security than they are on global warming. Yes, they do want to go back in time. And, most of all,, they want power, money, and rich white male privilege.
50
I think we should have the same border control as we do with Canada. Just put up signs every few hundred feet marking the border with arrows pointing to the nearest official entry point with how far it is. Spend the saved money for immigrantion courts and for humanitarian assistance for migrants which likely include medical, educational, social services, teachers, teacher aides, and other support personnel and vastly improved infrastructure. There would be no tents. There would modern livable air-conditioned facilities. Gone would be the cages!
"Canada and the United States share the world’s longest international border. Officially called the International Boundary, it’s known as the “world’s longest undefended border” because of the friendly relationship between the U.S. and Canada and because there’s no wall separating the countries – just checkpoints at highway crossings. There are rules, however, about traversing the border from either direction." (from USA Today)
5
Yes! That’s what we want to achieve one day in San Diego and Imperial Counties. Thank you for the hopeful illustration.
1
The wall is needed because the US doesn't enforce its own immigration laws. It's a crude, relatively cheap, harmful, and ultimately ineffective alternative to actual law enforcement.
3
Compromise idea:
A ban on shutdowns in exchange for $6 million in border security, the use of which is decided by a nonpartison panel of 3 experts?
1
I just watched a representative from Louisiana talk tough about the border. I’d love to take him on a tour of the algodones dunes and the dragoon mountains or the area west of naco not only is the area beautiful but to build a wall in these areas will be difficult at best and way more expensive than anyone can estimate. Between eminent domain and labor the costs will be exorbitant. It would be like building a wall in one of rep Higgins swamps
2
The Canadian border is protected with electronic surveillance which includes infra-red cameras, having a residence less than 5 miles south and knowing border patrol agents personally, I can tell you they know every time someone crosses that border in rural Washington.
The idea that a wall on the southern border will do anything to stem the flow of illegal immigration is something only a dimwit would believe.
What’s really busted is legal immigration, which is woefully understaffed and badly in need of modernization.
What used to take less than a month in the sixties when I immigrated from Australia now takes a year or more, and it’s getting longer.
With 7+ million open jobs, tax cuts and the aging working force we need a bigger tax base and we are scaring the best and the brightest (most college educated for free) away.
6
How about printing "This barrier is a monument to racism, courtesy of Donald Trump" on every ten-foot section of the wall? It would be true. Brown people would agree to that. And as long as I'm dreaming, we could put it in front of Mar-a-lago, where Trump could see it every day. Win-win. (Or maybe in North Dakota or South Carolina, where people support it. Definitely not on the border, where people don't.)
7
@Alan - I've read that the farther people are from the border, the more they fear foreigners and support the wall. People who live on the border, for the most part, are opposed to the wall and are NOT afraid of Latin Americans.
4
Let's all step back and take a look at the root of this problem. The Mexican cartels are smuggling drugs into the US because the US has a drug problem. Mexico doesn't. The guns the cartels use come from the US. Not Mexico. It's supply and demand. Allocate $5.7bn toward the escalating US drug addiction crisis and make assault weapons illegal and we're on our way to solving our own problems.
11
Thanks for the article. It is simply too bad that pieces like this are rare. Our news cycle is so fast that the narrative is driven by falsehoods, paranoia and fear. When journalism slows down and actually spends time in the places, a different more truthful story emerges.
4
I wish NYT would do a story on the land grab aspect of the wall... how many acres, how many families, at what cost, duration and impact of construction. I noticed on the election map back in Nov that the bulk of the districts in which the wall would be built are blue ones. Don't the folks on the ground have a voice in this?
10
@Cathleen Thanks for your comment. Our journalists have traveled down to the border to talk with many of exactly these type of families. You can see some of that coverage here https://nyti.ms/2Wd2PQM and here https://nyti.ms/2k2XThF
This graphic can provide a scope of the undertaking: https://nyti.ms/2EsgM7i
And in terms of cost, we've covered that in stories like these: https://nyti.ms/2KxuLru and https://nyti.ms/2hg97vH
I hope this helps. Thanks again for reading.
4
I appreciate the stories you've sent links for, even those I'd already read. I'm kind of hoping you get the whole point from the stories you sent... 3 of 5 are from 2017, one from Aug 18, well before the current crisis, and Dec 18, again before the shut down, although at least more recent. Timing is everything, and old stories are rarely defined as news. I suspect many readers are experiencing, similar to me, an increased interest in the topic. I found the landowners dispute story compelling and not an over-told story, with voices of real people. More of that would be wonderful. Thx, C
1
This is trump's obsession, vanity project and red meat he throws to his base that does not live anywhere near this fence. I'm waiting for the gaudy gold "T" to appear on the fence.
3
I live near Nogales, Arizona which has the same close relationship to Nogales, Sonora as Calixico and its sister city across the border. It's an interdependent relationship with lots of commercial and cultural connections. We go to the dentist in Mexico and many Mexican come across each day to work and shop. And now our parking lot has been bought by the feds so they can store barbed wire and military supplies there. We don't want barbed wire or increased militarization. We have a wall, but drug smugglers go under it. That's not the solution!
466
@Carolyn Wayland Maybe the fences need some censors to detect underground tuneling...
2
@Alexgri I also live near the border. Technically and financially, censors are impossible. Please try not to search for technological solutions to a political and goverance problem. Resolution of our broken immigration system is a more permanent solution.
32
@Alexgri: I think you mean "sensors".
14
Steel slats might allow border patrol agents to see through to Mexico, but it works both ways. Refugees seeking asylum can see through to the US side and cutting or burning through those slats is very easy. The whole idea is rediculous and a waste of time, money, and effort. Just to satisfy his massive ego and narcissism. A fake contrived crisis. God help us when a real crisis befalls us.
289
@jwgibbs Good point. Crying wolf is diverting our attention from REAL threats, including Russia which has REAL ICBMs targeting the US and REAL agents trying to influence our democratic elections. Trump is trying to distract us.
28
@jwgibbs
The real crisis is in play already. It resides in the White House and US Senate.
16
They tested all of the prototypes for the wall. They were all breached fairly quickly.
12
Just like every country and race there are good and bad people.
I believe we should have higher limits of people allowed and to strengthen our borders. Allow more people in. I think people don't empathize that the majority of the immigrants are looking to flee violence and threats and to pursue a better life. I can't blame anyone for that. I am a third generation immigrant on my Dad's side and my Mom's side first came over in the 1600's. We all came from somewhere which people should remember. I welcome more lllegal immigration.
The real tragedy here -- and I use the term deliberately -- is that Trump's followers not to mention Trump himself will never hear what these people actually living on the border have to say. Fox News will never broadcast interviews with them, right-wing media will never run articles about them, and so Trump's "base" will continue in a fear-based perspective fed by ignorance. In other words, communication around this and many other issues seems more and more impossible. This is a real-time tragedy, no different from how characters in ancient Greek tragedies destroyed one another out of an inability to hear, to listen. It's like the gods are laughing at us.
1
@free range
People who cross the border illegally don't hangout along the border they just illegally crossed. They scatter very quickly away from the border to cities where they are most likely to find employment. So asking the people literally living along the border isn't going to really tell us much about illegal immigration. People living in cities in border states is another matter entirely.
Please don't talk about people being 'fed by ignorance' on this subject all the way from upstate New York. This is a very complicated issue and people living out in the US away from it all have no idea just how complicated it really is and no idea as to whether or not their political passions around this issue are the result of them being sold a bill of goods.
Plus, the media certainly DOES go down and interview people living directly on the border! I've seen those interviews and features. They do it because people living on a border are the least likely to encounter the issues of illegal immigration as they exist in places far from the border and also because they're not likely to speak negatively about this issue given that they live exposed, isolated, and vulnerable out in the middle of nowhere.
Just remember, with steel see-through slats, not only can the US border patrol see through to Mexico, refigees seeking asylum can see through to the US and anyone patrolling the border. In addition cutting through those slats or even burning through with an acetylene torch is really quite easy.
1
We need a physical barrier in some additional locations along the border with Mexico, not a wall from sea to sea. The additional sections of barrier should be built where CBP says it is necessary. It is not envisioned to stop drugs or crime. It is intended to reduce the numbers of unauthorized entries by people. As a Democrat, I think some money for selected sections of a border barrier could be agreed in exchange for a long term solution to DACA and the release of the 800,000 government employee hostages. I know there are problems paying ransom to a hostage-taker, but let’s do it and move on.
4
This was offered to Mr. Trump last year (and he seemed in agreement) when Republicans were in control of both houses of Congress. It was only after hearing from his more conservative advisors that he backed out of the deal. Anyone who "negotiates" in this manner should not be negotiated with. Just make sure he is voted out in 2020.
3
There's a great slogan that can be gleaned from this article " We don't need a Wall we need to fix the Door ".
2
The wall has existed since 1993 and nobody cared. This is one of the stupidest debates in history and it’s costing 800,000 people their paycheck. Grow up everyone.
17
@Tom
Your comment is inaccurate and overly simplistic. The “wall” as envisioned by the President has not existed since 1993. Portions of walls and fences and barriers have been at the border, WHERE IT MAKES SOME SENSE, for long time. But, the President is seeking a 30’ foot wall all along the border where it makes no sense, either from a security standpoint or a cost effectiveness standpoint. Growing up might be to recognize that sound immigration policy should not be held hostage to jingoism, fear mongering and ridiculous chants of “build that wall”.
5
@Tom
Wait until Donald Trump starts pushing for the Border Wall from coast to coast between us and Canada for the 2020 campaign.
1
@Island man
Well that's not true either. And I dislike Trump as much as anyone but he is not asking for a 30 foot hall all along the border. He is asking for money to pay for more wall, fencing, and barriers.
Looking at this situation from Britain the problem seems insane
I ve seen TV programs showing the present ^frontier^ a length of rusty wire on thin steel poles. You simply lift up the wire and cross. Hidden the US side are drug dealers insisting on recruiting you but that’s part of the risk Its this situation that it seems half of America is defending so desperately
Incidentally there is in my opinion a strange reason for thIs Spanish speaking/Hispanic invasion game Its this.
In 1945 America was finally King of the world Its one real enemy the British were bankrupt bombed out food rationed their once mighty Empire vanished London was a good place for romantic tourists …^Gee I love those creepy old railway stations^
The suddenly a strange thing happened ..A few British pop groups appeared and within months had smashed Americas world wide cultural dominance and made London the capital of everything that was new and modern .And so it has remained ….You can forget any nonsense about New York etc
(Note . all this maychange with Brexit but lets wait and see)
America reacted to this British invasion and said angrily ^Why do we have to speak their language anyway . Why cant we speak Spanish ? And so the invasion of Hispanics began
If ever a nation wanted to destroy itself its America!
America should stop supporting S A states where people live in appalling poverty and help them establish civilised governments ..but sadly theres no hope of that..Bye Byeeeee….
last time I traveled in Europe there were no walls between countries until you went east to Russia. Open borders works well. Immigrants who make it here can be found in malls cleaning tables. Work no one wants to do here.
built bridges not walls. and fix infrastructures in need of repairs.
9
One would think this would be illuminating to a Trump supporter, but this has never been about facts. Nothing about the election and presidency of Donald Trump has been about facts. It’s been about fear.
20
But I think its incumbent on the rest of us to keep bringing it back to facts. The DT supporters need to incrementally find their way back to truth, and that comes from finding out how many other of their treasured values are assaulted by this wall. The building will require a considerable land grab, commerce will be substantially impeded, it will take taxpayers years to pay for it and will impact the debt: we need to tell those stories.
1
The only bright spot I see is that the longer Trump rants on this, the less damage he is likely to do on other fronts. We must, however, open the government as soon as possible. These hard-working people are being held hostage to a political impasse. Can something be done to isolate and solve this problem while continuing to negotiate on wall and immigration issues? Re-opening the government needs to be pursued as a win-win issue for all sides.
5
The main point of the design seems to be to ensure that anyone who falls from the top will be killed or maimed.
Not something that "pro-life" people would ever worry about.
13
In exchange for a wall (that Trump will likely never get around to building anyhow) Democrats should agree to nothing less than comprehensive immigration reform, for which bipartisan bills apparently already exist in the Senate.
Temporary, piecemeal reform in exchange for a permanent wall makes no sense.
7
One good thing about steel slats is that they're recyclable.
In a couple years after Trump is in jail or gone in disgrace, we'll wake up to the realization that this was all a huge, costly propaganda stunt.
When we reach that point, at least we can recycle the steel for other uses. Concrete, not so much.
7
If the republicans really want to end illegal immigration they could make e-verify mandatory for all employers. The program is already up and running it would cost very little to make it the law.
17
I feel for the people in Calexico who are intertwined with the residents of their sister city, Mexicali, in Mexico. I lived in a border city in Ontario for many years and people on both sides go back and forth, whether for shopping, entertainment, recreation, fuel, etc. Canadians like the low prices in the U.S.; Americans like the advantage their greenback enjoys in Canada : )
People also meet and marry folks from the "other side" becoming family in the process.
It was and is a mutually beneficial relationship on both sides.
Trump's demonization of illegals pouring through the border and demand for "The Wall" is harmful to border towns like Calexico.
Can't wait for him to start harping about illegals rushing the border from the Canadian side!
6
Not for the wall but we do have an issue with illegal immigrants. We are paying for them everything day. My daughter was just hit by an illegal in California, no license, no penalty to him. My daughters car was totaled and she will have to find the 1,000 for her deductible. He won’t pay it for sure.
47
@David Undocumented aliens have been eligible for special driver's licenses in CA, and insurance, for four years. It's called an AB-60. By driving without a license or insurance, that "illegal" was committing a crime that made him vulnerable to deportation, even in "sanctuary" California. Most undocumented aliens get the license, and pay income taxes, for this reason.
63
@David There are lots of uninsured drivers here in Florida.....and the vast majority of them are legal citizens or residents.
81
@David
Suppose they could get licenses and register their cars legally?
12
I think we'd be better off installing a wall "below the surface". It would address the tunnel issue and would be a great compromise on both sides. Trump could still say he got "his wall". And the Dems could still say they have open borders.
Win win.
34
@kz Dems aren't looking for open borders. That's a Fox talking point only.
53
@kz
But then Ann Coulter will say that Trump "caved."
13
@zoe Thanks so much for clarifying that point.
9
Love the photo of KN, the Sec of Homeland...it is just so preposterous. I wonder if they get the same two or three people beefed up with body armor for each of the photo ops she and her boss have done in front of what really looks like prison bars. And, are they actually being paid? Maybe they just use cardboard cutouts since the real border folks are furloughed.
4
Calexico residents voluntarily chose to live on the border with Mexico. The border is being overrun by illegal immigrants. The only thing that will stop them from illegally entering our country is a wall. If Calexico residents don't like border security they always have the option to move. I'm sure Mexico will welcome them with open arms.
3
Where, in this story, did you see any mention of the border being "overrun by illegal immigrants"??? It appears that most border towns coexist to each town's benefit.
3
@paul Please stop spouting illogical nonsense. Also, have a look at the statistics; the numbers of illegal aliens entering the US has dropped precipitously in the last 15 years. Then please tell me how a wall will stop the ones coming in, generally through the legal border points of entry (including airports) and overstaying. That is how we are receiving almost all the illegal aliens that are still entering the USA.
2
The wall is just a joke, nobody believes that it would stop illegal inmigration and -worst- drug trafficking. This is simply a political message to those whites who still believe that "browns" and other kinds of human beings are destroying their right to rule the world.
If someone does really want to solve the issues in central america, which is the main poiunt of origin of current migrants, should create a realistic economic program which insures those persons would stay and live a prosperous life in their land, nobody wants to leave their country, only if they face unsurmontable harships, but those are not the concerns of current conservatives, they only want to obtain easy political gains from those who really don't understand the migratory problem
2
Can we honest about Pork?
every year, this same bunch of selfish, narrow agenda promoting Senators approves a line item for funding a Wall.
There isnt anything new about this. The only motivation for denying the president 5billion for "a wall" is to destroy the nation and make Trump take the blame for it. There is no longer any interest in WashDC to play the ole bargaining chips so that everyone gets what they want. Its all deliberately Lose-Lose, "cut-off-your-nose-to-spite-your-face" style.
Also in this ridiculous budget is 11Billion for Senators Schumer and Bookers self-centered tunnel projects in NJ-NY....
then there's Masala Kamala's 77Billion earmark for a useless High Speed Rail system in California.....while Californians suffer from lack of water......next to an ocean.
Then theres another Pile of Billions for Mitch McConnel so he can save Kentucky Coal Industry and get re-elected.
Is the light begining to flicker on for any of you readers??
2
Certainly not for you. Tunnels for millions of people who live and work in and around NYC, probably justifiable. High speed rail in California, it’s about time. It shouldn’t be limited to California. There will come a day when, due to the price of fuel you won’t be able to travel to far in your car or on a plane. Double the price of aviation fuel and take a guess at what your airline ticket will cost. Don’t be so short sighted.
5
I would like to see trump's name writ large and burned into every slat as a reminder of the consequences of putting a complete incompetent in a position of power. As the chief enabler, McConnell's name should be there, as well, in smaller letters.
6
Thirty foot “wall” meet forty foot ladder!
4
Does that "wall" strike anyone else as a set prop out of the Hunger Games?
4
Jacumba airport is next to fencing like this. There is a glider winch operation there.The tow line has a parachute on it and it blew across the fence one day on to the Mexican side. The ground crew put up a ladder to retrieve the line. The Border Patrol drove up and wanted to know what they were doing. The jocular answer- ‘we’ve had it! We’re leaving!’. The tow line was then retrieved.
Trump’s monument, if built, will be a mixture of impediment, waste of money, and bad joke.
8
@ThePB Yes, the fencing near Jacumba is visible from Interstate 8.
Back in the 1970s during my high school days in the San Diego suburbs, me and my friends would engage in illegal night fishing at Lower Otay Lake east of Chula Vista, five miles north of the border. While we were sneaking through the scrubland terrain to avoid park rangers, we would occasionally spot Border Patrol agents in the area but they never bothered us, probably because they could see that we were carrying fishing poles, not standard equipment for border crossers.
Trump has stepped into a Bear Trap with his ridiculous demand for a Border Wall and now he has no way to extricate himself from it without gnawing his own leg off. While this may not be a visually appealing sight for some, it is a very permanent way to relive oneself of a bone spur.
7
I hate border walls. They do not work.
During my Army service I had the opportunity to see the inter German border that had been erected by East Germany to deter "western aggression" according to the Soviet puppet government that kept almost half a nation in prison.
Just like the more famous Berlin Wall, people seeking freedom and a better life crossed or died trying. A couple of families actually made a hot air balloon and floated over to democratic West Germany. The story of the Strelzyk and Wetzel families was even made into a movie - the trailer is here.
https://youtu.be/CV487Z1R2Wc
The strange thing is that the very people and politicians that would have applauded the escape to West Germany want to erect a wall to keep refugees from reaching our country. Many of the same people who champion refugees from Cuba vilify refugees from other parts of Latin America. This makes no sense.
Humans think of themselves as the highest order of life on this planet, but a bird can fly over a wall with no concern while a human gets shot at or locked up.
Republicans claim to be great at understanding economic motivation and championing freedom, yet they oppose people seeking safety and a better life in our country.
Yes we need to control our borders, but a wall is not the way.
6
If you hunt long enough you can find someone who is against anything you want them to be against. More Fake News.
1
The US has immigration laws that allow 1,200,00 to immigrate every year.
It is very expensive to educate, provide health care & social services in the US.
Liberals are for Open Borders and do not want to enforce US immigration laws.
The fake asylum seekers should have a hearing at the border and be denied entry.
Crime & poverty are not valid reasons for asylum ...if they were 7.7 billion people could seek asylum in the US.
2
@Peter: One more thing: Unless you are 100% Native American, at some point in your family tree, YOUR forebears immigrated to America, probably to escape an unsafe life in whatever their native land was. YOU are a descendant of immigrants, how about that? Aren’t you grateful even in some tiny part of yourself that they made it to America and were welcomed here? Now that it’s YOUR history we’re talking about, do you feel any differently about immigration? Think on that for awhile.
4
@Peter I know that living in NYC as you do often makes you think that you are living in the centre of the world- I am a Canadian citizen who lived and worked in NYC from 1995 to 2007 - I was a "legal" alien and sometimes thought so too. But I have some news that may shock you -not everybody in the world wants to live in the USA so your 7 billion number is ludicrous.
2
It's not a WALL. It's a FENCE with steel slats.
Does that make you satisfied or more outraged ?
Just more tired.
1
Trump needs to replace his mealy mouthed assistant with a real man. I propose Sheriff Arpaio, convict before Presidential pardon for the Trump White House. Taking away the shoes, baby food and feeding implements from the women should slow "those people" down. Any male refusing to use female underwear as protection from the sun will be staked out in the nearest desert. "Latino Long Walk" a Trump/Arpaio production.
Just as the fall of the Berlin wall symbolized the humiliation of the failed communistic ideolology, the construction of this border wall will echo the same humiliation for our capitalistic ideology. The Russians are popping Chamagne corks right now, and if there ever was a great time for a terroristic or other strike, we are most vulnerable right now, this second - with our federal emergency management resources and infrastructure disorganized, unavailable like it has never been before. Trump's agenda is dangerous to this country and poses a greater threat than ISIS, Al Queda, DPRK, Russia, and immigrants combined. The Senate needs to get off their bums and move to impeach Trump.
1
Congratulations NYT, this impactful article is one of the best I've read, countering this Administration's blatant propaganda machine with actual, truthful, facts on the ground. There must be many more additional Calexicos on the border whose citizens are also revolted with the misrepresentations, lies, and ignorance being disseminated regarding the positive relationships with their Mexican neighbors. Please continue your reporting on these communities who clearly reject a false wall "solution " for a nonexistent "problem ". Thank you.
4
The plaque that DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen laid in feudal allegiance to her overlord is all that’s needed to answer the question, “Is The Wall really just another monument trump craves in homage to himself?”
https://tinyurl.com/y7osdv7j
3
We are all being held hostage to a man whose ego is proportionately tied to the height of a steel facade.
And meanwhile, federal workers are scrambling to meet their bills dependent on the decision of a narcissist who never earned a paycheck. What an epic carnival.
7
“I’ve had a business here for 30 years and we’ve never needed the barbed wire. Why now?"
Yes, why now? What has happened that makes this shutdown not only "reasonable" but something that people are willing to defend and support?
And how much were we charged for the installation of that barbed wire? Was it bought by the Pentagon which buys single toilet seats for $640 dollars? Is that why they are demanding 5 billion dollars, because they already spent that much on this length of barbed wire? Does the barbed wire have the president's name on it?
2
From reading this it sounds like the other side of the border from Mexicali in Calexico is a wonderful place to have as a neighbor, so why don't all the refugees from Central America choose to want to live there instead. Strange, isn't it? Likewise telling which city is where.
2
To quote John Lennon: "Imagine there's no country". To quote Martin Luther King: We must live together as brothers or perish as fools".
I do not believe in borders. Monies saved from a paranoid border system could easily be used to create a more tolerant and just immigration system.
I do not believe in prisons. Monies saved from the horrific jailing of (mostly) people of color could be used to develop a more tolerant and just rehabilitation and educational system with (more or less) a complete ground up redefinition of what it means to be a cop in this country.
Trump's wall is a kick in the gut to our environment, to any national sense of decency, and sets exactly the wrong example internationally of the huge crime of establishing "country" at the expense of decency.
3
Walls might work in China, Israel, or Berlin,
but they do not belong in America.
Once we were a nation of laws.
America needs real and tangible laws that will rapidly process illegal visitors over staying a visa or trespassing.
2
As I understand this impasse, the administration wants a blank check. A very wealthy man once told me that people, friends and relatives alike were always asking for money for some plans they had. The best way to end the requests he found was to ask for the detailed plans before he sent the money. Plans seldom came to him.
Show us the plans.
31
We don’t want plans for an immoral wall.
Border towns say what they really need are increased capacity for ports of entry and courts that handle immigration/asylum cases. Increased spending there would eliminate the border "crisis" created by closing ports and courts in this wasteful and counterproductive shutdown.
Of course, that only addresses the symptoms, not the root cause-- instability and violence in the Honduras-El Salvador- Guatemala Northern Triangle. Addressing that would require long term vision, cooperation with allies and diplomacy. The US seems to be fresh out of those capabilities at the moment.
43
I've spent a considerable amount of time camping and enduro riding along the southern border, from McCallen, TX, through Big Bend country, to Southern Arizona. Sometimes I would see old white guys up in the mountains standing by their trucks with guns. They look downright silly. It's a joke because the border population is 90% Hispanic. Spanish is the first language for nearly 100 miles north of the entire border. In McCallen TX, I would literally be surprised if I heard English spoken in public. Outside of San Diego, the border region is basically the wealthiest state in Mexico.
28
Not a surprise since it was part of Mexico until the US stole it in another fake, ginned-up crisis.
4
Yes, this is further evidence of a job well done.
Keep out the criminals drain the swamp.
Lock her up.
Blah blah blah.
8
I bet Mr Renison voted for the con, at least he won’t publicly admit it. Meanwhile our oceans are dying and Putin is laughing.
15
The wall is a colossal monument to stupidity, tribalism, and I. We are literally creating a monument dedicated to dumb.
24
Reading these border wall articles reinforces Bill Mahr's comment that we really are the United States of Stupid.
23
It seems Washington and those who are in support of building this "wall/fence" have some deep seeded belief that the drug traffickers are just small time thugs who are ignorant at best and too stupid to get around the wall/fence.
These drug traffickers are smarter than the average bear. They make millions of dollars and they didn't make that by being stupid. While we focus on a wall/fence they're working underground and sideswiping the states using the ocean and air. I mean, there is water and there is air space...duh !!! So why use the most publicized way of entering the US: over the wall/fence. Are we Americans really this naïve and stupid ?? Maybe the fly over states are convinced. I swear, you find more intelligent folks who live near the oceans, it has to be in the water. Those flat lands screw up your head.
19
Most drug trafficking is accomplished through legitimate points of entry, hidden in cargo and secret compartments and not across open spaced borders.
3
The majority of Americans, regardless of where they live, don’t want Trump’s wall. Adding to the acrimony by insulting people based on where they live is not dissimilar to making cracks about immigrants being drug dealers and rapists.
1
And when the wall is complete and the lives of uneducated whites aren't one bit better, what will future Trump's scapegoat next? Invest in education and embrace the future, or chase one silly magic solution after another and continue to sink.
60
A good story, which highlights the sheer, pathetic, self-defeating and inhumane obsession with a "wall."
32
Seems the only people who want the wall live hundreds of miles from the border. A better solution is for these people to put a wall around their communities.
35
Trump is a fear mongerer - there is no substance to his lies. Our economy is linked with Mexico and Canada yet he’s demonized our long time friends to satisfy the bobble heads on Fox. The government shakedown is damaging our stability and economy and the very people who defend our borders are its casualty. We are less safe because of Trump, McConnell, Pence, Miller, and Kushner.
31
NY Times: Please start reporting on who benefits financially from the new "steel slats” construction. Who holds the contract? Was there a competitive bidding process? Who are the subcontractors? Who is providing the steel?
As with everything else in this administration, follow the money!
139
Thank you! I've been waiting to read these articles and they should come from the NYT, rather than a smaller alt magazine or web site with a far smaller readership. What about kick backs? Let's read about this NOW rather than ten years from now.
10
@Diana Dloughy
Agreed. That great sucking sound you hear coming from Mexico right now? That's not the sound of jobs or sovereignty being taken away, it's the sound of the priming of the pump our leadership wants to use to put our tax dollars into their pockets.
Also: I sincerely regret having ended my pump metaphor with putting things into pockets. What a sunken train wreck of a metaphor.
7
@Diana Dloughy Excellent point. Excellent questions. Is there such a thing as Trump Steel? If not, I supposed it's in the works..
7
In the last paragraph, you quote a former Republican City Council Member, John Renison; "We do not have a crisis on the border. We are not in fear of being invaded like he said,” Mr. Renison said. “What’s really laughable is you think you’re going to stop illegal immigration by constructing walls and fences.”
Enough said.
37
@skinnybonz. I wish this paragraph could be copied and pasted into every Trump-supporting thread on the Internet.
Also the part where Trump looked at the existing fence, added some barbed wire on top, AND A PLAQUE, then claimed it was his wall that he promised. Every news source should be pointing this out, repeatedly. Please.
3
That barrier is ugly on so many levels.
19
When autocrats rule everything with intolerance, hate and fear...as a useless Liberal media reports only about the day to day controlled messaging of the autocrats; we can do nothing but buy nothing and watch mouth-agape at the spreading ignorance and fascist tendencies.
6
@Mogwai Wow, what a powerful statement. I can hardly wait for the English version.
1
Just look at the monstrosity that Donald Trump and his administration are trying to force us to build with our tax dollars on the southern border. If you lived in Calexico, would you want it in your back yard? Heck, if you lived anywhere, would you want it in your back yard? It is beyond obvious to me that there must be better ways to protect us from criminal intruders. Steel rusts. Steel can be cut. Steel can be dug under. This wall is ugly and stupid, much like the man who conceived it.
38
See this wall, it separates the kingdom of I'm special from its all mine
5
Let's compromise and call it a cage.
14
This about sums it up and it comes from a conservative.
“We do not have a crisis on the border. We are not in fear of being invaded like he said,” Mr. Renison said. “What’s really laughable is you think you’re going to stop illegal immigration by constructing walls and fences.”
Trump is both an ignorant fool and a racist stoking xenophobia. He — and the Republican Party that countenances him — need to be removed from office.
19
The Wall is a...
D - I - V - E - R - S - I - O - N
While everyone one is focused on The Wall, Trump and his administration continued “to hold public meetings on oil and gas development on the North Slope of Alaska, refused to extend the comment period for leasing the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, and opened up the Bureau of Land Management field offices to allow drilling permits to continue to be issued.”
The NYTimes and other media outlets need to cover more extensively what is being stolen from We the People by our own government. Who will benefit the most from this? Who is involved? Is former EPA administrator Scott Pruitt involved?
Don’t forget Nixon’s personal attorney, Herbert Kalmbach, raised the money to bribe former FBI agent G. Gordon Liddy and former CIA agent E. Howard Hunt to remain silent about their wiretapping of DNC offices in the Watergate hotel. Trump is more corrupt than Nixon ever was. Who is doing Trump’s dirty work from within our government? Is Rudy Giuliani involved?
Let us hope Chuck Schumer succeeds today, otherwise, Trump will have additional time to wreck irreparable damage while he has everyone focused on his manufactured crisis at the US - Mexico border.
www.nytimes.com/aponline/2019/01/16/us/ap-us-shutdown-drilling-projects.html
57
The greatest support for “The Wall” comes from rotting little coal towns in West Virginia, rubes in frigid flatlands in South Dakota and other locales where Mexico is nothing more than a childish fear of the unknown stranger, a convenient scapegoat to blame for real problems people are too weak and unprepared to confront and resolve.
These people have no idea what life is like along the border. Most of them rarely interact with Latin American immigrants. They are willfully ignorant of the facts: like the fact that American citizens commit violent crime at a higher rate than immigrants do. That people are not ‘pouring in across the border’ at all — and in fact the pace of immigration from Mexico has been steadily declining for decades, as the Mexican economy offers more employment opportunity than before, in large part because of NAFTA. That ‘drugs and gangs’ aren’t taking a perilous journey on foot across the badlands to enter the U.S. - contraband comes in through inadequately monitored ports of entry — and a lot of our ‘drugs’ are overprescribed and black marketed pain medications that originated right here in the good ol’ USA.
“The Wall” is a fever dream, a form of mass hysteria perpetuated by a snake oil salesman named Trump, aided by social media propaganda, Fox News, and a heavy infusion of advertising dollars from extremist groups like FAIR and CIS. It is as pernicious as Hitler’s propaganda, Jim Crow, and every other poisonous racist, ‘nationalist’ movement.
89
Amen
4
@chambolle
This should be an NYT Pick
7
Well, how many residents are making a living off of illegal immigration and illegal immigrants? Make an educated guess.......
5
Ok, Mike, I’ll give it a shot. Zero?
1
@Mike Our entire food system, for one, is built upon the work of illegal immigrants. How about the hotel and restaurant industries? Big, big companies benefit enormously from the low wages and little rights of illegal immigrants.
We need to hold employers accountable. Any business found employing people who are not legally entitled to work should be fined etc. This would immediately drive down the demand for illegal workers, drive up demand for native born workers, and slow immigration.
I'm not against immigration. Something like this should be combined with simple pathways to work permits, green cards etc for people already here. But at least we'd get a handle on who is here, and some control over who works.
2
@Patrick Gleeson Open your eyes and mind to reality, not agenda.
1
Trump wants to turn America into one giant prison, not to keep immigrants out; but, to keep us in. The Obama FEMA camps was fake news, this is the real thing.
3
Fear remains a viable tool. Many that never face any competition or contact with immigrants, now fear them. I once wondered how Nazi Germany got to the point of exterminating people. I now see that constant vigilance is the only tool to stop fearmongers like Trump. We might be burning witches again, in a few years.
6
So you're saying The Army, the US Army, lied to US citizens and they're not happy about it. Or the wall. Or Trump.
And these are US citizens threatened every day by murderous drug dealing mellon-legged terrorists from The South, oozing inexorable mobs, I mean caravans funded by Democrats, across The Southern Border into The Homeland to rape our women, steal our benefits, create mayhem and drug stuff and then destroy America for farmers in Iowa?
Huh.
2
Unfortunately, when the wall is built we will be stuck inside with all our same problems; lack of gun contriol, crumbling infrastructure, unobtainable healthcare, opioid epidemic, citizens united, wealth inequality....etc.
The wall is a typical fascist move protrayed as an over simplistic solution to all our problems. As Trump’s base buys in more and more the ramifications get scarier everyday.
This isn't about keeping people out ..it is about keeping white people locked in.
8
walls don't work. I give you the Great Wall of China, Berlin, Hadrian's Wall...that come to mind right now...
7
How could people living on the border know anything about life on the border?
The president knows all about it. He saw it once on television.
28
I am amazed that Ms. Hurtado thinks she can live next to an international border and feel that she has the right to be immune
from international border issues. Should there ever be an outbrake of a deadly and highly contagious virus like Ebola in Central America resulting in a mass exodus to "El Norte", the border communities will be the first to be exposed.
6
@Bikebrains the same thing operates in the other way, you must remember where the border was in the 1800's then you will understand why the people in the border don't see it as a problem, the supposed problem lies thousands of kilometers away, where fox news and conservative radio has spread the fear of inmigration...but wait, the US was built by inmigration and by stealing the land from natives....
2
Squirrel!!!
1
You’ve misspelled outbreak.
2
Well that's really ugly... Wait until it's all covered in graffiti, dangerous tunnels dug under it, not to mention the poor land owners who will have their land stolen to build this "monument" ...
4
Forget the wall. A better idea is to dig a really big trench like the grand canyon. It can be called the Trump canyon, and it will be bigger, and deeper and better than the Grand canyon that took mother nature millions of years to build. It will be the best canyon ever !
4
Ok, let's at least agree on a psychological wall - yes, a wall divided by opinion not race, agenda or colour!
1
Simple solutions
Stop legislation against drugs
Make all drugs legal. There will be an economy around it like today but in the sunlight.
Clinics not prisons should be built and strong social programs for families should be government sponsored for drug addicts .
That will make tunnels disappear in 50 years time.
It is a process to undo drug policy made during prohibition .
Drugs as Hillary once remarked are big money and hard to control.
Closing down government was a idiots move on trump and McConell
Dems should not cave to hostage taking or trump will always win and his current coup as dictator will succeed.
3
Let’s build a beautiful 30 foot walk around every trump tower, hotel and resort, around the “world”. Okay, we can name the walls Putin-Trump walls.
1
War Crimes are ... real. Are they happening here and now, and being committed by OUR leaders? Hmm.
The ego maniac bigot demagogue Trump at his worst.
If Hillary addressed some of the issues that he demagogued like blue collar job losses, common sense immigration policy, never met trade agreement, war, Wall Street banker I did not like instead of running an identity obsessed, social engineering, men are the problem in the country today, elect me because I am a woman, we would not have this nightmare we have today.
2
Trump truly is a nincompoop. Now he wants to build unnecessary unsightly monuments to himself on the Southern border with commemorative plaques. While we’re at it let’s despoil what’s left of our pristine wilderness for quick cash. I guess the abandoned casinos in New Jersey weren’t enough for him. This macho “wall” thing has got to stop. Spare me the Republican screed about big government “intruding on our lives”. The only difference is how one defines whether what government does is for good or for ill. So far this administration has done nothing but harm.
9
Honeymooners now have a choice. It is to the Northern Border to see the falls or the Southern Border to see the walls.
5
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder as Trump's paramours can attest to... But I digress...…
Steel slat walls are not beautiful and the wall will quickly become an anachronism draining the nations treasury of much needed funding, for programs citizens depend upon. We can't even afford to maintain existing beautiful steel bridges and concrete highways. The solution is to add thousand miles of additional infrastructure to maintain? How can we afford this wall?
How long before a technology is developed to circumvent the wall, like a tunnel or hydraulic ladder? Even if those technologies "are never developed", how long before a newer technology comes along that can easily cut through the steel wall?
This wall solution is just plain ridiculous.
7
The supporters of the Vanity Wall state that Bush 43 and Obama both stated there is an immigration crisis. And both embarked on building fences where illegal crossings of people and drugs were prevalent. Both attempted to codify immigration laws.
Yet, the border fence, wall, whatever it should be called, was not central to the issues at hand and neither centered their presidency on that one issue-immigration.
Trump visited the border and was presented a dog and pony show intended to bolster his stand for a wall. However, there is a reality that needs to be faced and many that live on the border provide a reality whether it be pro or con for a wall or fence or patrols. Trump will listen to a few voices that are quite a distance from the border.
Trump, as stated in another piece in this publication today, is holding both the country and his presidency, such as it is, hostage due to the screeching of a few extremists rather than understanding and listening to the will of the majority of the people.
The wall issue may only be one issue that may relegate his administration to the trash heap of history. And he will be cause alone.
2
to correct this article, the wall does have anti-tunnel design where the base of the wall concrete is 6 feet below the surface. Anybody can check the design specification so there is no need to mislead the public about the wall by inferring that it is easy to tunnel underneath it.
3
@James It's not a problem to dig a shallow tunnel and saw through the slats. Trump didn't think this through. Enjoy your money going "Poof".
2
@James. Oooh, 6 feet. NO ONE will go to THAT much trouble...
3
6 feet under the surface is nothing.
3
The residents should be listened to. The fence seems rather redundant given the tunnels and the fact most drugs come in through legal ports of entry and most illegal immigrants simply overstay their visas, also couldn't drugs simply be passed through the slats? One issue that should receive attention is the flow of American produced guns through both the north and south borders of the US. Both Canada and Mexico have far more stringent gun laws than the US. Canada spends a lot of public money fighting the inflow of guns from the US as does Mexico. These guns are fueling the havoc that Central American migrants are fleeing. The US should do more to prevent them from leaving the country. The manufacturers should be held more accountable for their products. That would be more effective than the fence.
3
Media needs to fight the fear and crisis hype and keep telling more stories like this from people living at the border.
Politicians, specifically Dems, need to explain their historic commitment to border security and the facts of today’s situation. This is a crisis of fear and hype, promulgated by a reality tv mentality gone rogue.
Open the govt and immediately appoint a group of bipartisan experts - who actually know the facts and totality of the issues at the border. Let them put together a cost effective plan that will put money towards best practice border security solutions. It could be so simple if we had a reasonable leader with a genuine public service commitment at the helm.
3
To describe a structure that separates human beings from each other as "beautiful" is very sad. This wall is not representative of the pinnacle of human existence, but rather a sad reminder that we as a species have a long way to go to achieve what we are capable of; peace, love and concern for each other. Let Trump put his name on it. I don't want my name on it, just as I wouldn't want my name on the Berlin Wall or the walls of prisons or concentration camps.
4
What he should have said was, "I alone can break it!"
Trump is proposing boundaries made of metal slats placed in remote locations
Seems like another idiotic idea coming from a desperate Trump administration.
Metal slats seem like a very poor choice of materials. Metal can be easily cut - How has this design held up in initial testing?
On a lighter note: Seems like all this metal sitting in remote locations would provide great opportunity for enterprising individuals to cut the metal and re-sell it
3
I don't think the people have the same urgency about stopping illegal aliens who are lawbreakers.
Yhe illegal aliens arriving today, breaking our laws, are not welcomes in most places in the US> These residents need to understand that and not turn a blind eye to the criminal activity of those who cross are borders illegally.
3
Ok. Has anyone else noted the connection between Trump lovers and and difficulties with spelling and grammar?
4
@judyweller
English major?
1
@Patrick Gleeson. You answered your own question. They elected him.
1
Look, it's very simple. Republicans do not want the immigration problem to be solved because it is a very convenient prop in their bag of dirty tricks. They can trot it out during every election and keep working class people, who actually do have legitimate grievances, distracted and voting for them. Too bad those low information folks are watching Fox News and are not understanding how their very real problems can be solved.
4
We have a president who can't be reasoned with. Facts bounce off the side of his head. Nearly two weeks ago he visited McAllen, TX on the border. The border patrol showed him photos of tunnels they've found under current walls. They also showed him how holes have been cut in current steel walls. His response was to say that (I paraphrase) we need to be diligent about finding tunnels and patching holes. Oh, really genius? That's what they do everyday. 800,000 Americans are not getting paid because our president is having a 3-year-old tantrum. (My apologies to all 3-year-olds.) And are Republicans in Congress standing up to him? No, because they fear losing power more than they feel obligated to do the right thing. They've made a deal with the devil. Trump's horrible, but he's their only chance for retaining the White House in 2020. Therefore, they can't tear him down. They have to pretend it's the Democrats fault Trump's not getting his $5.7 billion for his wall, even though they didn't give it to him either!! P.S. The wall with the slats is laughable. Yep, can't hand drugs and weapons through those openings.
4
Walls do not stop anything but some wild animals. The Great Wall of China finally gave in as did the Berlin Wall. More agents, improved electronics, drones, rapid response teams all work better than a wall. That being said expanded processing, improved housing for those seeking asylum, more immigration judges would also help not to mention Congress increasing penalties on those companies that hire illegals regardless how big the corporation is. Requiring CEOs of those companies to do jail time might also be an incentive.
1
Have you guys discovered the invisible force-field yet. Put one of them in. No one will never know - except the baddies who won't be able to get through. Oh the pain - Will Robinson, can you help me?
2
I have read numerous articles on the wall and have become a little more knowledgeable in the process. What has been lacking in the NYT are pieces on how those who are against spending more money on a wall, as am I, would like to go forward on immigration policy. It is easy to write anti Trump articles, he is an inviting target. What I am looking for is more pieces that talk about what immigration should look like in the future. How many, from where, what skills, etc. The 5.7 billion wall project is not going to happen (it would only add to the existing wall by 150 miles anyway). So, we will soon need to face the what do we want question which is hard. The recent brouhaha is the easy part.
5
It's too late to build a border wall. The Trumps are already here.
10
We can call the existing barriers “The Great Wall of Trump”, put up plaques and pictures of the supreme leader and he can claim that he built that wall and won. Since the majority of his people don’t know anything real about living along the southern border it won’t matter that its another one of his lies.
3
If this country REALLY wanted to begin solving drug smuggling problems we would spend $$ on a robust drug rehab system.
3
One of the casualties of the Trump use of the border "crisis" is that there is no room today for intelligent discussion and change.
Sure, comprehensive immigration reform also means strong border protections, but that is now impossible until Trump leaves office.
Open borders just won't work. Closed borders resembling the borders around the old East Germany...kind of insane. We have great neighbors to the South, and need to work with them to slow down the invasion, not so much of people, but of dangerous drugs.
Little of that is taking place under Trump, strangely enough.
Hugh
379
@Hugh Massengill
Comprehensive Immigration reform was put on the table during Bush and Obama's Presidency. Republicans don't support it.
They want illegal cheap labor when big agriculture needs it and they want to pretend they are tough on illegal immigration when it's good for their dystopian world view to install fear in their base.
142
What open borders? We have ports of entry.
38
@Hugh Massengill Up here in the GWN (Great White North) we are hoping, not for a wall, but for a 'Privacy Hedge'. We want you guys to pay for it....after all, its to keep you from looking at us or wandering in to check out the summer parties. We promise we will water it though.
32
All those insisting upon a wall--remember that it will be built upon land taken from fellow citizens through eminent domain at prices so low as to be theft. Remember that it will not work. Now consider whether you would want your property confiscated for show.
There are better and more effective ways to manage immigration in this country which do not target individuals based upon race but which consider this country's need for labor and the needs of refugees.
786
@Davina
Yours is the most spot on critique of Trump's wall that I've seen yet.
40
@Davina
If the current administration, and HS, truly wanted to stop illegal immigration they'd go after the company executives who turn a blind eye when hiring from labor contractors who smuggle and engage in human trafficking from those desperate countries. A recent "FRONTLINE" investigative report highlighted just how young, desperate, and exploited these folks are.
48
@Davina
Not to mention the huge ecological disruption to animals that know no borders, but migration is an important strategy for their survival...and then there is all the noise, mess, and destruction in the act of construction!
48
The Democrats seem to be doing a poor job of communicating what walls/fences/barriers are supported in the $1.3B bill they have been advancing. Is it correct that the $1.3B includes funds that can be used to repair or extend border walls, so long as they are of existing design? That would include the photos in this article.
Because that's the way out of the shutdown. As Trump has retreated from his 30 ft concrete wall, and retreated from it being coast-to-coast, why not just continue with past designs at current funding? That way the Democrats can say Trump didn't get his Wall and didn't make taxpayers pay for it, while Trump can lie as usual and say he got his Wall?
3
He must be trying to sell licensing naming rights to the U.S. govt. No, maybe that it one of Jared’s duties.
Respect and condolences to the people of Calexico and Mexicali. Sadly Trump consider ropes, ladders and tunnels in his 'thinking', because unlike the wall and the wheel they're relatively new technology - like only two hundred to fifty thousand years young.
2
It’s not to keep immigrants out, but to keep Trump supporters in because they are fleeing him in mass.
6
Trump's wall is not so much as "protecting" the border as it is walling off this country from reality. He is in his greatest comfort zone when fomenting imaginary challenges and dealing with them using one-line slogans. After all he was, and remains, a reality TV personality. That's his métier.
13
I love these articles that describe the reality of border cities than the propaganda that gets spit out by the administration. No one wants these improvements because it won't stop cartels as they already devised ways to defeat a wall. It's a sad state of affairs when El Chapo is smarter than all of the Trump admins put together.
10
Not difficult to be smarter.
1
It’s not about the wall. The “wall” is a metaphor for Trump’s ability to project falsehoods and stroke fear and hatered. Its repudiation by the public is a realization of the false prophet.
7
How are steel slats going to cut down on drug smuggling? Can't a drug smuggling network just have agents pass packets of drugs to each other through the steel slats? Even if the wall were solid, could smugglers simply toss or drone the packets over the wall?
8
On a network news show last evening there was a feature about all the Americans who were heading to Mexico to buy affordable insulin. Suddenly, Mexico was a good place for Americans.
Shouldn’t take long for Mexico to want a wall in order to keep the greedy Americans from taking all their medicine!
5
We need more stories like this one. The president of the United States has shut down much of the government over what he insists is a crisis at the border. The is no crisis at the border. The fact that both of those statements are true is completely absurd. The media must continue to press home the true story of what is happening at the U.S. Mexico border. Millions of Americans are suffering, daily, from the shutdown. Millions of pawns in Trump's pathetic lie. Completely absurd.
3
The man's a self-destructive gambler, placing all his chips on one number.
3
When I hear "wall", the image of the Great Wall of China comes to mind. When I hear "fence", the white picket fence, in my front yard in the 50's, comes to mind!
2
Call it what you want. It’s nothing more than a monument to racism and xenophobia...
8
The "plaque crediting the President" just says it all.
19
”We do not have a crisis on the border. We are not in fear of being invaded like he said,” Mr. Renison said. “What’s really laughable is you think you’re going to stop illegal immigration by constructing walls and fences.”
Pretty well sums up the truth about this nonissue that is harming the viability our federal government and endangering our national security.
7
“I’ve had a business here for 30 years and we’ve never needed the barbed wire. Why now? To me, it feels as if I’m enclosed.”
Like every thing else this "president" has done, he ignores anyone that has another point of view. It is always Trump's way or no deal. He shows the same ignorant intransigence when his demands run into reality. "Facts are for suckers. We've got alternative facts."
I would also remind people that walls built to keep "the others"out can also serve to keep in Americans. Seems like a ridiculous thought at the moment, but I'm pretty sure that is what East Germans thought once upon a time.
6
What companies supply the steel, supply the labor to put up this "wall"? Likely donors to Trump. Do a story on that.
13
Why can't we get some reporting on where on our southern border illegal crossings are a problem and why can we not get agreement to fund fixes specific to those locations?
10
@fgros Thank you for your comment. We published an interactive last year that focuses on barriers along the border that have already been erected, while also touching on where people tend to cross over: https://nyti.ms/2EsgM7i.
People go to great lengths to pass through points of entry, as this article goes into: https://nyti.ms/2u4zBqu.
This is not new, as you can see here: https://nyti.ms/2RMLq2A. But, this article shows how illegal crossings have decreased in recent decades: https://nyti.ms/2HiBicW.
That happened in part because of the give-and-take between parties in Washington which has abruptly halted: https://nyti.ms/2HiBicW.
Beyond the capital, the president's plan faces further financial, legal and environmental challenges, which you can see here:
- https://nyti.ms/2KxuLru
-https://nyti.ms/2Wd2PQM
- https://nyti.ms/2H4wHLw
- https://nyti.ms/2rz7xtP
I hope this helps. Thanks again for reading.
3
The steel slats wall is as ugly as the policy and the man holding the nation hostage to it. It's a stark testimony to an autocrat's cruelty and fear. It's a bigot's boondoggle.
4
So..... exactly how much did we pay for some barbed wire string around an old fence? How much money did one of Trump's cronies soak the taxpayers for to string that up?
5
If this wall last for a few hundred years it will be a structure that will tell a story of our American history in the early 21st century. Like great art, church's, Eygptian pyramids, Roman ruins, Machu Picchu, The Great Wall of China... Our wall will be a monument to who we are at this point in time at this spot on the earth.
The story will be lasting. The wall is a structure that is a reflection of our architecture, science, law, empathy, brutality, intelligence... It is will be a living historical document.
Is this the historical document the people of the USA we want to leave on this earth?
268
@HL Couldn't be better said, and what a sad, sick country we've become . . . which is not to say we don't have other shameful times in our past. The only thing great about the USA is the ideals it represents, very seldom ever achieved.
35
@HL
I think this is part of what trump his hoping for: his name will be tied to something that will go down in history!
20
@Jeanne Prine
Yes it will and it will perfectly reflect who he is. Unfortunately it will also reflect who we are.
14
Why can’t we listen to those along the border? Help with the actual problems instead of what we perceive their problems must be ?
Stop illegal migration by much stiffer penalties for employers, ending birthright citizenship unless you are a citizen, and reviewing and changing asylum and deportation laws through legislature. Executive hate filled orders dreamed up by Stephen Miller and Trump are not the solution.
And get our American Federal employees back to work with pay!
226
@C WOlson Why not talk to the people on the border? Simple answer. Trump is a racist and thinks he's smarter than any Mexican American and the people who live on the border are not his base. His base is composed mainly of frightened people who hate illegal immigrants but who depend on them for food and for labor that they and their children have no interest in doing.
31
@C WOlson It's never been about security or protecting the border – stopping the pay of the front-line agents who work hard every day to secure and protect our borders is proof. The whole thing is Trumped-up in order to turn racism and irrational fear into votes, and because Trump wants a monument to his "greatness." All authoritarians need a bogeyman – this is Trump's.
29
@C WOlson
All true! Problem, as you know: Trump’s wall propaganda gets him votes with his base.
14
Open borders, universal equality, freedom of movement, understanding not punishment -- these are so far from what people take to be viable options that they merely indicate how far we have to go.
23
@Stephen C. Rose. Criminals, illegal immigration, MS-13, Drug cartels, are all factors requiring the wall which funnels people through manned immigration entry points. Technology doesn't stop illegal crossings, without a wall, border patrol is required and there are 2000 miles of border. The suggestions by Schumer and Pelosi are absurd, what do they want? 10 border patrol agents per mile 24 hours/day for 2000 miles? That would be at least 60,000 agents to guard the border plus infrastructure to support them including roads, buildings, cameras etc. UNWORKABLE!!! Build the wall !!!!
2
Maritza Hurtado, an immigration and tax consultant according to the article will certainly see her business affected. She also echoes sentiments of her community.
However, borders are federal jurisdiction. Take, for example, the legalization of pot by border state Michigan yet it is still not legal at the federal level. So, crossing the US/Canada border with pot or to go smoke pot in Canada may be legal at the state level but actually a crime at the federal level.
7
Someone needs to tell Ann Coulter that the wall is indeed being built. She can call it a Trump win and the government can be reopened.
70
"...to unveil a plaque crediting the president with the barrier."
Ah-hah! Now I understand: trump wants the wall so his name can be plastered all over it. The Great Wall of Trump, he will undoubtedly call it if this particular bamboozle comes to fruition.
34
With upwards of 20,000 northbound vehicles a day crossing, it cannot be said that no drugs are being smuggled north from this section of the border alone. We cannot inspect.
1
@Michael If in fact, you pay attention to law enforcement officials who are against this idiotic border wall idea their main arguments against are 1) that drugs enter the US through hidden tunnels as stated in the article and 2) drugs, as well as immigrants (since this is not about drugs but bad hombres) enter through legal points of entry. Drugs hidden in cars and immigrants seeking asylum. Both can be better dealt with if the $5.7 billion go into new hi tech equipment and hires instead of a dumb stupid wall.
3
Thank for you for this article. I live in San Diego, just 16 miles from the border. In fact, I can see Mexico on a clear day during my daily walks. A wall isn't the issue. Drug tunnels are. Our local independent publication, The San Diego Reader, published an article about sophisticated drug tunnels a few years back: https://www.sandiegoreader.com/news/2015/dec/16/cover-how-el-chapo-digs-his-tunnels/. Unless a wall is built underneath as well as above, I don't see it achieving any purpose.
60
@Bonnie
Try to explain this to trumpanzees.
6
It's funny that 2/3 of the people who come to the U.S. on visas and overstay their welcome and others are coming across our northern border. However, border officials do not see them as a threat or worth arresting.
Our northern neighbors also share close economic and social ties ties with their American towns and cities across the border. Traffic flows in both directions just as it does on the southern border.
So where do Stephen Miller and DJT stand on this issue...those coming and overstaying their visas or coming across the northern border? Haven't heard a peep about them.
Hmmmmmm.
23
@It's About Time: It's wrong to conflate border crossings from Canada with those from Mexico. Over 1000 persons are apprehended *daily* attempting to breach our southern border.
For comparison, 33 people were arrested for crossing from New Brunswick into Maine in 2017.
3
@James
That is a tiny portion of the US Canada border. How about the rest of it?
So Ms. Hurtado says “we’ve never needed the barbed wire before now.” Therein lies the fallacy. We have indeed needed the barbed wire before now but no President or Congress has been willing to recognize it. That is the reason why we have so many illegal aliens rather than legal aliens. If we had done this correctly from the beginning we would now have a better country and one in which we might actually have even more immigrants—immigrants who would feel better about themselves, pay taxes, become citizens and have no fear. I believe her profession taints her sense of reason. She makes a living based on immigration. Why use such a clearly biased example of why we do not need a wall? I am not exactly sure what constitutes fake news but if it includes biased news reporting, then this article might quack like a duck.
10
@Confused
We have so many illegal immigrants because for decades we took advantage of cheap labor. Businesses were delighted to rake in profits in the short term with low cost inputs but were not looking at the big picture long term. The large illegal population is a natural consequence of American short sighted, profit-based capitalism.
10
Ms Hurtado was elected mayor. Her views are shared by the majority of her town. And a majority of the country oppose Trump's silly vanity wall as well.
11
"John Renison, 70, an Army veteran and longtime Calexico resident who is a former City Council member and county supervisor, began his political career here in the 1990s as a Republican...
”We do not have a crisis on the border. We are not in fear of being invaded like he said,” Mr. Renison said. “What’s really laughable is you think you’re going to stop illegal immigration by constructing walls and fences.”"....
also, since the renovation started in 2015, it seems like a previous administration did recognize some fixes were needed. The barbed is just a waste, but some more electronic fencing, lots of people, cameras, drones, etc. is what we actually need. If you actually look at the numbers and evidence (not what they tell you), the problem is much smaller than you think. People are not flooding over our borders to come kill us. And despite trumps deep knowledge of the issue (not really), drug dealers do not throw sacks of drugs over the fence. The bigger issue is visas and our broken 'legal immigration' system,and of course Americas appetite for drugs. The scare tactics and the "plan" to build a wall actually shines a light on trumps complete lack of understanding of a complex issue that should be handled by serious people, not somebody like him. He's trying to waste our money so he can tweet out to folks like you and say "you see, it was all fake news, i built a wall"...
4
Well, initially Trump wanted a beautiful ten-foot concrete wall or fence like the ones surrounding the property of Obama, Clinton, Soros, Maxine Waters, and any Hamptons and Beverly Hills resident. The Democrats were against it and suggested metal slats, and now the NYT complains that they are ugly or war-like? You cannot have it both ways. Cheap and beautiful. It is normal for a country to mark its border with barbed wire fences and metal slats, I believe most countries do.
4
@Alexgri I suggest visit our border with Canada. You'll notice the Canadians have not erected any walls to mark their border with the US. That failing, perhaps a trip to Europe might disabuse you of the idea that most countries have metal slats and barbed wire fences on their borders.
9
@Alexgri Civilized countries do NOT fortify their borders. You'll find nothing but a cut line through the forest along the northern border and nothing in the Great Plains. Europe's border obstructions were removed with the fall of the Soviet Union. You need to travel more; it will rejuvenate your view of the potential of humanity.
11
@Alexgri Most countries can't afford border walls. In any case walls have been obsoleted by new technology, and only challenge man's endless ingenuity to pierce or tunnel under them. Don't mistake this simplistic symbol of Trump's edifice complex for a solution to border security
4
So I couldn't agree more with Mr. Renison it is laughable, it if it weren't so sad. Walls do not work and have never worked for any length of time. A wall that the president talks about is just a testament to our inability to govern. If the presidents true reason to build a wall is for protection then when does the construction start on our northern border. And what about Alaska where you can see Russia from your window? We need tank barricades on the beeches. The Democrats, Nancy have it correct get the government running than talk about security. You should not be using American lives as a tool of negotiation.
The president said on National TV that he would take the blame, again he lies. He also said during his campaign that Mexico would pay for it, again he lies. There is not enough space on this page to list all the lies. I am tired of calling lies not being truthful. We need to call them what they are LIES! Stop being polite to someone who does not know what that word means.
26
A distinct problem in this country is that we now have such short attention spans. We want input in flashes and sound bites. Do we have too little time, give not enough effort, or both? A "wall": a single word designed to be easy to understand, in order to create instant support or opposition.
I don't mean to suggest parity in this area between the "factions." Republicans tend to be less nuanced, less interested in science, evidence, reasoning, and details. Their clown-king is a hollow entertainer, drawn from even the worst part of our entertainment infrastructure: "reality TV." He communicates with us in the invidious fashion described above. He is empty and bereft, but "charismatic" in his ability to convey simplistic nonsense in single bites.
The left is not wholly immune from rashness and anti-intellectualism. Our coalition is somewhat more oriented to political principles and policies; Republicans tend to be more into reactions and sloganeering. Nevertheless, as a culture we need to restore "elites" to some general credibility and deference: problems and their solutions are, in fact, more complex than we'd like, and expertise, knowledge, study, and reflection are important in making improvements.
"Build the wall!": this so well reflects exactly what is wrong with how we now approach our biggest challenges.
16
One other difference between the major US political parties - the quality of their presidential candidates. Democrats tend to put their best and brightest forward, Republicans, not so much. Hate on the Clintons and Barak Obama all you want, but they are not buffoons and they clearly work hard to educate themselves. Pretty much the opposite of Trump.
6
@KittyKitty7555: You wrote that "Democrats tend to put their best and brightest forward." Would that include Hillary Clinton? SMH!
2
There is a rich border culture that ought to be valued and protected. A wall is antithetical to this end.
17
Particularly interesting to me is the info about the large number of tunnels. There should be a systematic effort to push this info to high national visibility. It's a bit dense to invest massively in a wall when there's this kind of evidence it won't work. It's simple, clear info easily grasped by practical people too busy to read complex analysis.
35
Can you imagine how Trump would howl if he had this monstrosity near any of HIS properties?
213
@Ignatz Actually, I've fantasized about requiring trump to pony up to his imagined fix: build a fifty-foot high barrier around the White House, and send all the Secret Service personnel elsewhere.
I wonder how well he'd sleep...
15
@Ignatz
Good point. A principle that should be incorporated into any future legislation on The Wall. Namely, whatever design Trump deems satisfactory for our southern border, he will be required to build around Mar-a-Lago.
6
What is the real reason Trump is pushing this 'wall'?
10
@melpomene It is a weapon of mass distraction. Mueller is coming.
3
@melpomene I too have wondered as to the source of his Mexican hatred.
1
for President Trump, this effort is about appeasing his base for re-election. This was a keystone promise during his campaign;if he fails to gain approval his credibility amongst his followers will all but be runed.
if he gets approval his chances for re-election will increase since he "beat those fat cats and cleaned up the swamp".
Meanwhile government resources and employees are loosing money, creadibility, and patience.
23
But he promised that the Mexicans will pay! Why doesn’t that count to his worshippers?
8
Interesting article, but how about a picture of the "barbed wire" on the older fence so we can visualize it. The point by the residents that money should be spent on the "door" rather than the wall is very important!
Finally, how easy (recently I saw a photo) is it to use a power saw to cut a hole by severing two slats of the wall/fence? I bet that the drug guys can defeat even this secure-looking barrier without much trouble. Let's also work on the incentive side of this problem.
34
@Fearrington Bob check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0sjzHDon3g
1
"Eighty-four percent of Imperial County residents are Latino, according to 2018 data by the United States Census Bureau."
There's your answer right there. In the Alternate Universe of (46-1), they're part of the problem-- you know, "those people." Also, they voted overwhelmingly in favor of the opponent in 2016, so they lose.
The only wall we need is about eight feet square with a concrete floor, a steel roof and a tiny, tiny beautiful window of thick glass brick with bars across it. Fortunately, there are plenty of those and we don't need (46-1)'s friends to build it.
16
@George: how many of the 84% are illegals themselves, or have illegal family members, or relatives in Central American they wish to bring here illegally?
2
@Concerned Citizen
No doubt some of them are descendants of those who lived there when it was part of Mexico, as was most of California originally.
When did your ancestors come to America? Mine came pre-Revolution.
1
"In October, the Homeland Security secretary, Kirstjen Nielsen, visited to unveil a plaque crediting the president with the barrier.'"
And therein lies the problem: the president's bottomless pit of need wants plaques in his name. He'd be happy to emblazon the words"Trump Wall" in pure gold on every other slat.
And yet, I've never seen a "wall" as porous as the one in the photos. If drug dealers are tunneling their way to the US, what's a bunch of slats wall doing to stop that?
Trump's presidency is one large vanity project, which is growing old as federal workers despair for their health and their families.
I see no end to this man's capacity to dig in. He actually seems to revel in the cruelty he inflicts on others.
This isn't governing. It's sadism.
689
@ChristineMcM
I predict this “wall” and everything else Trump will come down...and there will be a huge celebration. Remember the party at the end of the Berlin Wall.
89
@ChristineMcM The plaques are an American, and not only American, tradition. Every bench in Central Park has a plaque for the resident who sponsored it.
5
@Alexgri There's no comparison here. The benches are for the benefit of park goers and the sponsorships benefited the park. Everyone wins.
57
Thank you for this article and the detailed mapping of the US/Mexico border. It puts this ridiculous drama into perspective.
132
The police state optic of the photo is priceless and sadly reflects the xenophobia rampant in the Trump Administration.
The steel slats have proven useless as a barrier ny government testing (cut holes through it). Trump's wall is a waste of tax dollars since it can be defeated by: ladders, tunnels, commuter airplanes, trains and vehicles at legal border crossings as well as ships in American ports.
Trump's shutdown is a campaign vanity stunt that fails to make America great regardless of the spin attempted by the White House or the GOP in Congress.
111
The article has comments from 3 individuals who oppose Trump’s policies. Should they be considered to represent opinion of the whole town?
6
When they take a pill, they don't actually ask every person in the US.
2
Did you read the whole article? 68 % of the county voted against Trump. Ms. Hurtado is a recent Mayor of the town. The former Republican described Trump's policies as laughable. And indeed they are. Spending to put barbed wire on top of a wall while drugs are being brought in via tunnels? So yes, a strong majority of the townspeople who know the border best think Trump's policies are silly.
Trump is blocking funding for effective border methods which the Democrats will provide anytime he stops demanding wasteful spending for his vanity wall.
5
@Resident
I live about 40 minutes east of Calexico. A large tunnel was found here last week also. The wall is not popular among those of us who actually live along the border. It does not work.
4
Walls never work and the history of the world proves it. The Roman's build Hadrian's Wall, the Chinese the Great Wall of China, the French the Maginot Line, and the Communists the Berlin Wall.
All symbolic of simplistic thinking. NOT MY PRESIDENT's plan is just one more failed attempt to address a more complex issue.
70
It may actually be a war zone. We didn't start it, but there it is.
4
@Ryan
"It may actually be a war zone."
Doubtful. Syria is though.
4
@Ryan
Confused by your comment. Did you read the article? The substance of the article was that Calexico (and the rest of the border presumably) are specifically NOT war zones.
5
I thought this was an excellent summary of the absurdity of border walls, and to sum up even more:
Benefit of border wall: captures really dopey low-level criminals not aware that going directly through a checkpoint without proper credentials might get you in trouble.
Costs of border wall: to those in border towns and cities on both sides, loss of a market economy; to immigrants on the border, freedom; to Americans on the border, freedom; to government mathematicians, the illusion that there is no z-axis, a very dangerous view given someone might jump in the air someday or dig in the sand or something.
I could swear they still have the Maginot Line in the high school history curriculum.
18
When we moved into our house our yard was home to family of moles. Actually they lived in our neighbour's yard first. It is probably to be expected since we live next to a forest and lawns have lots of earthworms.
I learned a lot about moles in my attempts to thwart future invasions after I finally won the the campaign. Did you know that a mole can dig as far as 40-inches beneath the surface and tunnel as fast as 15 feet an hour?
What does a mole have to do with Trump's legacy wall? Well, humans can dig deeper and I am pretty sure that they can certainly circumvent Trump's Legacy Wall in a number of ways other by digging under it, as any one with reading ability already knows by now.
Trump's Legacy Wall is wasted money that could be spent to make America great again, instead of making America a run down prison with barely tolerable infrastructure.
184
@Susannah Allanic
I'm actually astounded by the mole statistics! And in agreement with the rest.
15
@Susannah Allanic: are you seriously calling Hondurans and Guatemalans trying to break into our nation "moles"??? want to rethink that analogy?
If Trump called them "moles", you'd be screaming "racist!' and having hissy fits!
BTW: the Israelis have this issue, and have excellent technology to trace tunnels and blow them up. We will adopt these methods.
1
@Susannah Allanic
Another nice medieval foil to this medieval intervention would be a trebuchet. The Wall is defeated before it is even built.
2
Why won't Trump visit the border and talk to people who live there? He won't because he only trusts his "gut reaction" which he has stated is superior to other people's minds. This President is willing to hold the wages from 800,000 people to get what he wants. The 5.7 Billion is only a start for a wall which will cost many more times this number. If he is given this money he will pull this trick again.
109
Calexico wants more efficient processing for legal passing to promote business and a healthy economy.
Calexico wants technology-based, instead of dog-whistle, solutions to track smugglers' tunnels that are causing sinkholes.
Calexico hates the barbed wire and pretend fence Wall with Trump's name on it because it symbolizes economic failure and racism instead of fruitful economic partnerships and amity.
Calexico, yet another border town that despises Trump's piddling attempts at building a border barrier, intelligently voted Democratic in 2016.
Let's join Calexico in 2020: stop the ugliness. Vote Democratic.
431
I had a dream last night that it was 2021 and Trump had gone back to his day job of bankrupting casinos. It was paradise.
410
@Rob. You have some great dreams!
15
Excellent story, real human beings, meaningful content and substance about true human lives - vs. the juvenile wall-obsession of this deluded administration.
83
Democrats are terrible at messaging. Pelosi, Schumer and the like should be telling this story repeatedly as part of their opposition to Trump's "wall".
Instead, all we hear in the media is Trump owning the messaging on this issue.
Message control is critical if Democrats hope to rid the country of Trump in 2020.
258
@JB
I agree both Schumer and Pelosi should use better wording but the difference between democrats and conservatives is that the latter use vast propaganda machine that perfects their message to few well rounded lines.
When you are concerned about facts it is difficult to formulate a catchy phrase. Conservatives do not have this- problem, they just lie.
15
@JB
I totally agree. There seem to be two factors. Firstly the Democrats need to improve messaging to a vast degree. Secondly the media should ignore most of the rubbish from Trump which currently fills their output. Reporting everything Trump issues even just to say it is incorrect is more publicity for the moron.
14
The way out of our current impass.
Give everybody an ID with their picture and a link to fingerprints and iris scan. Keep track of rights to work and services. Require the ID, with strong punishment for employers or others who ignore the requirement.
Illegals will have no reason to stay.
Wages in industries that hire illegals will increase to those required by citizens.
We have known for decades how to control illegal immigration. But business doesn't want to lose the cheap labor.
(Our need for that labor, plus compassion, should lead to providing a road to citizenship for most current illegals, but NOT those in the future.)
114
@Garraty: Even if agricultural worker pay were raised to $20.00/hour hour, most people would not be willing and much less able to withstand a whole day in brutal sun picking tomatoes or whatever harvest needs picking. If only it were that simple. None of my middle school students, especially not the low performing ones, aspire to the kinds of jobs immigrants are willing and able to do.
57
@Garraty
Please don't call people "illegals." Illegal is a verb; using it as a noun is deragatory. It is not illegal to be a human being, and the way we use words counts.
48
@Garraty there will always be good reasons to offer amnesty for past transgressions. Let's not kid ourselves.
A decent minimum wage diminishes the threat of immigrant competition for employment. At the same time, immigrant work, immigrant spending, immigrant taxes and immigrant entrepreneurial activity creates economic opportunity for native born residents.
While we build walls to impose misery on the poorest, the sophisticated and wealthy threat agents build tunnels.
We are pathetic.
30
Look at the space between the vertical slats. The "Trump Wall" appears designed specifically to facilitate passing drugs from one side of the border to the other. This is protecting us? Why does President Trump appear so eager to embrace construction that does nothing to inhibit drug smuggling. Drugs do not need to cross the border in vehicles although that is the preferred transport for large quantities. Just go through the ports of entry. But backpack-size loads can be passed through those openings in less than 30 seconds. 20 pounds more of cocaine or heroin in 30 seconds, thanks to President Trump. It's not "Trump's Wall", it is "Trump's Portal".
50
I am sure Trump will find a way to spin this to his favor. perhaps, "I personally have slowed drug trafficking transportation down considerability, from truck loads to hand size packages." or something equally innocuous.
10
@usa999
And late at night a torch easily obtained from Home Depot could cut a few of those slats in minutes.
Pure and unadulterated idiocy. It should have the Trump name stamped everywhere.
12
@usa999, Perhaps the slats wall could be used in certain places where border patrol passes by more frequently. Otherwise, your argument would be used to support President Trump's original brick wall plan. Only parts of 2000-mile border needs barrier, and presumably different places would use different types of barriers in combination with the sorts of technologies Democrats favor.