Sorry but this guy Mr Whelan, a former Marine, carries 4 passports and was surprised handling a flash drive containing a lot of internal Russian's secret files. In U.S. a Russian former military officer doing exactly the same, under Trump would be, at best, in Guantánamo Bay or grilled in a triple security federal prison.
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@José Ramón Herreraactbluecc.com
In U.S. a Russian former military officer doing exactly the same, under Trump would be patted on the head, slipped a satchel of cash, and wished God Speed. Oh, just kidding, of course.
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Whelan comes across like a usable dunce, same as our President. Whelan probably thinks that he is a spy. Bad Conduct discharge. I bet that he doesn't mention that to his Russian ex-Army comrades. Four passports, come on, they just don't send them to you, you have to go through many hoops to apply. Once, a job I was interested in, required EU citizenship. Based on my grandparent's Irish heritage, I was told I could request Irish citizenship. I received the paperwork but it was daunting. I had to know the exact place and dates of my deceased paternal grandparents wedding, copies of their marriage papers, Irish birth certificates, plus other documents I found difficult to obtain - suffice it to say, I gave up. How much pencil pushing would it take to apply for 4 different passports, and to what end? Whelan's sketchy resume gave the Russian's the cover they needed to arrest him.
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Well he’s not a saint, so maybe guilty, maybe not. Spent a lot of time in Russia, so I’m wondering why...
Putin’s govt is of course sinister, dishonest, and manipulative to say the least.
Regardless, Butina must NOT be handed over. We need to know everything she did and all she knows. It could bring us one step closer to taking down the NRA, which by way, for a characterization of it, see “Putin’s govt” above.
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I wonder, would this have happened if we did not have Butina in custody? Sounds like the perfect setup to me. What are the odds that trump will do as Putin tells him to do.
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“I myself hope that we can rescue and bring home one Russian soul.”
His lawyer said this? Well. It appears his lawyer may not being working for Mr. Whelan.
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In this case I believe the KGB. A BCD and citizenships in four countries makes him not believable. But it puts to rest the story that having a less than honorable discharge hurts you in the job market. Borg-Warner hired him as Director of Global Security in spite of his 10,000 theft. Are they also complicit?
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One seemingly successful post dishonorable discharge example puts to rest the notion that it hurts you in the job market?
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If the unknown or unnamed person with the thumb drive hasn't been arrested, we know the answer to the question.
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@lil50 - what answer to which question?
Makes total sense to me.
I always take thumb drives in hotel lobbies from people I don't know that contain my holiday pictures and I also hold hundreds of passports.
Makes total sense that the stressed out traveller has others take care of his personal holiday pictures.
We all have been there, haven't we?
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The article does not say who the person was or whether he knew him or not. It just says the lawyer would not name the person.
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When will the KGB ever learn? This FSB (son of KGB) scam looks exactly like the Nicholas Daniloff affair, when the KGB stuffed a bunch of Soviet documents into the reporter's hands.
Then the KGB wanted to break up the Gorbachev-Reagan plot to end the Cold War. Our hardliners, no smarter than Moscow's, hoped the arrest of Daniloff would put an end to Washington-Moscow schmoozing. The fate of the Cold War hung on finding a way out of the KGB trap.
Smart negotiating, led by Secretary of State George Shultz -- Disclosure: then my boss -- with his Soviet counterpart resulted in trading (though neither side put it that way) a real Soviet spy for Daniloff and a famous Russian dissident poet, clearing the way to move forward on ending the Cold War.
The FSB appears to have entrapped Mr. Whelan, whom they may believe is a spy because, in their eyes. he visits Russia too often. Almost certainly they want Whelan as trade bait for Maria Butina who may face a cold fate in Moscow for cooperating with the Special Counsel's investigation, unless she received prior orders from the Kremlin to play cooperating witness.
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Before visiting the former Czechoslovakia in Soviet times, I was warned, “Don’t accept any offers to change dollars for crowns on the street; don’t smoke pot, anywhere; don’t engage in any public disputes or protests.” Had I been advised to reject any offers to take any thumb drives, I would have obeyed. In Moscow, today, I would not have to be warned. I wonder about this guy.
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State department should issue a no American tourist travel alert for Russia. This will do more to send a signal to Putin and the Russian tourist industry than a lot of diplomatic blah blah.
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Wasn’t it a cathedral that the Russian agents - who poisoned former Russian agents who defected to the UK - claimed to be visiting in Britain ? Is this a tongue in cheek defense for Whelan by his Russian lawyer, no less ?
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Isn't Butin supposed to be free in February? So, exchange idea seems to be unfounded.
Otto Warmbier, North Korea.
Paul Whelan, Russia.
See a pattern here?
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@Frank J Haydn not sure where you're going with a pattern. But they both went to each respective country freely. No one dragged them there. If you go to attend a wedding in Russia for the life of me why accept a flash drive from someone?
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The reading side of me feels: I reserve judgment on this one and say no trades just yet.
The darker side of me thinks: Maybe the current admin (here AND in Russia) wants Butina out and a trade for this chap could be passed off as humanitarian.
The thinking side says: Whoa, hold on there a second sport, I smell something and it doesn't smell good.
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@Marty
Yes. It isn't necessarily the case that Ms. Butina wants to go back, now that she has cooperated with Mr. Mueller, given that she has in fact cooperated. However, as you suggest, perhaps Trump and Putin both want to spirit her away from Mueller.
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@Marty Can we trade them trump instead?
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@Robert Do you really believe Butina has any confidence in US "justice" after having been held in isolation for months on dubious charges?
I feel sorry for Mr. Whelan, no doubt a decent individual who who foolishly - not his fault however - let himself be duped into this pathetic charade. The intention of the Russian government is to try to fabricate a prisoner who can be "exchanged" for the true Russian agent, Ms Butina, who clearly was sent to the USA to ingratiate herself, through guns and sexual favours, with some or more factota of the NRA for political reasons.
I write this, being by and large a strong supporter of Russians, if not, at this stage a supporter of a horribly corrupt Russian government. Mr Putin is no devil, but his self-aggrandizement is sickening. I believe that he is sincere in wanting to protect the sovereignty of Russia in the face of incessant USA aggression, but he has long fallen into a pervasive state of corruption while doing so.
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On the other hand, from Russian point of view, these guy is a definitely spy caught red-handed with multiple passports, while Butina is a innocent victim of political persecution.
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Mr. Whelan was either a spy (perhaps considering his past) or was picked for obvious reasons considering he contacts with military "friends," and is to be used for trading Butina. He's going to spend some considerable as a guest of the government in their version of gray bar hotel. It could go either way. His four passports from 4 countries is really bad news for him. Most people who just "visiting" to ANY country do not carry four passports from four countries. It's not what most travelers who were not Marines with a dishonorable discharge would do. The question I would have how did the Russians know who he was and what his background and his conversations with Russian military types. Of course, ANYONE who thinks clearly know that EVERY communication with military types in Russia are going to be tapped by BOTH the Russians and the U.S. Duh!
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The thumb drive was a plant, pure and simple.
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Why does this story start with mention that Whelan is an ex-Marine? What has that to do with his arrest in Russia? Maybe I am just out of touch with current jounalistic thinking on the subject. In my age group just about all men were ex-service men of one sort or the other. Never do I remember being referred to as ex-soldier in reference to any other matter. Hey, and I, unlike Whelan, had an honorable discharge!
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Is this as good as an admission by the Russians that Ms. Butina is an agent?
Mr. Whelan, on the other hand, with his bad conduct discharge for larceny and dishonesty, would almost certainly never have been hired by the CIA. They would feel and rightly so that he was not trustworthy. Our own agents in Russia almost always have diplomatic cover. Working there is too dangerous otherwise. All the same, Whelan's case is odd. Yes, ex-pats are often odd ducks. Maybe that's all there is to this. Was he possibly playing spy on his own?
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@Robert - if it is central to the mission and you can perform accordingly, I don't think the CIA cares a whit about your record, who or what you are, etc.
We have so little information, that what we have doesn't make sense as is.
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Guess the so-called president was too busy taking care of Russian oligarch Deripaska to spend a few moments trying to get an AMERICAN home - especially if he WAS SPYING FOR US.....
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A person probably holding 4 passports. An unidentified person provides a flash drive with classified information. This person takes the device and then is caught with it.
Argument? He did not know what he was handed. He will not identify the person who provided the flash drive. It is all a mistake. Russia is overreacting.
If a Russian citizen visiting the US had done all of these things, he would be considered an agent for Moscow.
But because one of Whelan’s passports happens to be American, the Russians should accept his excuses and release him.
Hatred for Russia is running high, and there are those who would benefit, financially, with a new Cold War.
Whether Whelan is an agent or just a convenient courier, judging Russia’s reaction as malicious when we would respond with the same response is nothing less than two sets of rules.
This brouhaha says more about our double standards than about nefarious Moscow.
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there must be more to this story than an innocent guy accepting a flash drive that's supposed to have his own photos? I'm trying to imagine an innocent scenario. Possible, but not convincing.
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Like your average tourist in Russia is given a thumb drive containing state secrets? Something's rotten in the state of Denmark, which is where he should have been taking pix. Sigh...
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Stop referring to this guy as a former Marine. He go a dishonorable discharge. He is not a Marine.
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For once, the russians might be telling the truth. But let the poor spy go. After all, you got the election.
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@Gretzky You've got to be kidding me. There's no way anyone with a dishonorable discharge from the US armed forces would be hired by the CIA or any other intelligence agency. He was demoted and discharged for larceny. Character flaw and exploitable weakness for any foreign intelligence service, particularly the Russians, who probably knew his background before they set him up. He's a classic case--Russians are familiar with the type--of a foreigner who got infatuated with the "mysterious soul" of Russian culture and the Russian language, but have no idea of what they're dealing with over there. He's just a chip for a trade, most likely for Butina, who's outlived her usefulness by now and we should just let go.
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@ccw Part of the plausible deniability cover, one supposes. He got kicked out of the Marine Corps, and has spent all the years since "touring" Russia, and just happens to glom on to only ex-military folks. And, of course, like all military aficionados, has a think for taking pictures of sacred architecture while talking to tough guys? Somebody was passing him a USB drive of architecture pics??!! To share no doubt with all the military buddies on like?
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@ccw "After all, you got the election." Sense of humor required.
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I have difficulty believing that Whelan would have a classified flash drive with Russian security personnel list. From where did he get it? If it was planted what business he had to accept it? Some thing is fishy here
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This guy is clearly an operative for someone - likely a part of the US Government, or maybe an intermediary looking to cash in on information. Travelling around the world meeting with ex-military guys - just for comradery. Likely with 4 passports as well - maybe more. But just an ordinary ex-marine.
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@Randy - this guy Whelan is a Walter Mitty type. He would like be someone, but he’s a nobody. Now he’s gathering a bit of notoriety and I assume he’s enjoying it, perhaps.
It is risible to think that is how a person would operate covertly.
Trump's silence is deafening. Don't expect him or the Republicans to help Whelan out of this mess. Mr. Whelan appears naive for someone who has citizenship from so many countries.
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@Jacquie Don't blame Trump for any of this. Whelan has no intelligence value. He is not a member or agent of the US intelligence community. If you read into his background, he has a fascination for matters pertaining to Russian military and intelligence. He made numerous trips to Russia. He held himself out as being "involved" in intelligence collection matters. He got himself into this and got his fingers burned. The Russians are looking for someone to trade for the return of Maria Butina. He is the rube. The trouble with this is that because he was acting on his own and has no intelligence value, the US is not going to deal for him. Its a big bad world out there, Pretenders like Whelan have no expectation of the American cavalry to come to his rescue.
Of course, the CIA employees all have certain background, that is easily identified.
Get caught with your hand in the cookie jar then claim you were expecting to find grapes? Laughable and weak. Very weak.
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Lame and laughable defense.
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You can tell he is not telling the truth. No average citizen would look at a thumb drive full of someone vacation pics. When my boss tried that with me I ran away claiming an emergency in production. Jokes aside there is no way I would accept strange things from a russian in russia of all places. Bore people on facebook like a normal person.
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The current potus is silent regarding this matter. People are wondering why....
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Hmmm, citizenships in the United States, Canada, Britain and Ireland. This seems a wee bit suspicious to me.
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@LOU BUSH I thought a US citizen could only have one other foreign citizenship.
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@hilliard The US doesn't recognize multiple citizenships, per se, but neither does it demand renouncement.
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@hilliard
Not if he or she is working for the Company.
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It's one thing if the thumb drive in question was planted on Whelan unbeknownst to him.
But it seems naive beyond belief, especially for someone professionally acquainted with security, to accept a USB stick, in Russia of all places.
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The guys who poisoned Skripal were also 'visiting a cathedral'.
All told it's been a bad year or two for cathedral enthusiasts - clearly far more dangerous hobby than previously understood.
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Something is weird about this guy. He knew Moscow too well and had been there numerous times. He stole $10,000 while in the service. That tell me he is nervy, a thief, and had no problem thinking he would not get caught. He has dual citizenship someplace etc. He was on some Russian social media. All of this is far from standard/ordinary citizen.
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@Jan
He was also fired from a local police department when working there as a part-time officer.
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@Jan Both of you are assuming that the previous episodes are real, as opposed to part of a manufactured cover.
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This guy definitely was not your normal tourist. He is very sketchy. He may have been set up but I think he was doing a spy gig.
M
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I was initially sceptical of Russia's claim but meeting someone to pick up a flash drive with travel photos??
Why not just share the photos on Facebook like any non-spy would?
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On all my vacations I forgo taking pictures and just have them handed to me on a thumb drive. Much easier that way.
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@Sam Dudek - when we first ran into Mr. Whelan, the reports of his past military service and brushes with the law coupled with the situation he presently found himself in made me think he's secretly working for somebody or something else. I'd be interested in that larceny lick he supposedly took while a Marine. Something's not right here.
If it was a plant to create someone to trade the young lady for maybe it might sense. But why one has to ask, otherwise. How could he afford an expensive hotel in Moscow?
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@AS
Maybe he saves his money for travel?
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@AS
The article states an expensive hotel. One could stay at the Moscow Marriott for $102 US dollars. I wonder what is called expensive in Moscow.
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@AS Per a quick online search, the Metropol Hotel (in which he was arrested) costs about $180/night. Not cheap, but not really "lavish" either.
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