We strongly object to the map of India as shown, in the article ...... as Pakistan annexed. The northern state of Jammu and Kashmir is ours and illegally occupied by Pakistan and China. ====== Matts'
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The story portrayed is more of her version.
The fact is different, Cheif Minister in the the name of renaissance ,wants to bring in activists to the temple. They have blatant disregard to the beliefs of devotees. Both women are representing some faction which are quite dangerous to society. Govt.brought these women to the temple not through legitimate means and that is quite provocative. If the Govt. wants to implement Supreme Court ruling that should be done through persuasion and taking people to confidence. One of the ladies hit by mother in law using a Woden plank is a false narrative, the mother was beaten by her. Nobody has hurled coconuts on anyone, it is mere exaggeration.
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Women like this astound me. I feel so cowardly in contrast. God bless them in their mission.
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This is not a case of general discrimination. This is one of a very few temples in India that has restricted entry for women — not as part of some general principal of discrimination but because the restriction is the essence of its particular faith in the particular idol that is housed in this particular temple. Hinduism has a pantheon of a million gods and goddesses each with their own peculiar beliefs. Thus both men and women devotees of this temple value the presence of such a temple. India has many thousands more temples that do not worship this particular idol and that allow anyone to enter. One cannot interpret Hinduism through the lens of the Abrahamic religions that all worship one single God and frown in all other forms of God. The appropriate comparison is the presence of an all boys or all girls school. Shall we start protesting these too? Here in the US?
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This happened in South India as the education level is higher than north India. If only we all spend more on educating our Indian women rather than their marriages, we can create a massive change in the way the Indian society treats us currently! I’m so proud of these women. Such small wins give so much courage to others!
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Anybody who has the guts to stand up against the ills of society or culture taking life at risk gets ostracised initially , but later becomes an icon for the following generation. It is the powerful leaders and passive people who perpetuate many of the societal and cultural ills. I admire people with guts to stand up to those risking their life and reputation.
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A great Hindu philosopher, scholar and reformer Swami Vivekanand had said the Hindu religion was great if it were stripped of its ritualistic, superstitious and exploitative aspects.
A section of the Hindus is centuries away.
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I am spending my winter in Mumbai.
Thank you for this piece as no Indian newspaper has reported a story like this.
Kudos to these two women - who braved this hostile mob - who debase their religion.
I totally disagree with comments expressed below by these hyphenated Indians - living in America - but dreaming of erstwhile almost British Raj.
There is no stealing by government of these temples.
If anything - it's the opposite where these temples demand all kinds of extras to avoid laws - especially land related. These temples build "hotels" "retreats" - for commercial purposes while paying no taxes.
These hyphenated Indians need to return to their beloved home country - to see what havoc these religious "nuts" are causing to this country. And this mob is led by this 56 inch waist or chest prime minister.
In a short time, there are going to be massive riots as the Supreme Court of India is about to hear and render a verdict on a long simmering Hindu temple to be built where a mosque once stood in Ayodhya.
The government and their enablers have seen that this verdict will be announced just before voting starts - to rally their "voting bank."
Finally, please - there is nothing like this in America where relgion hatred runs so deep.
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@Neil last year the head priest of the Tirupathi temple (one of the richest in india) head a press conference alleging that the govt. controlled temple trust was mismanaging its historical jewels with several donated by a 16th century emperor missing. In any other set up this would have been a serious whistleblower allegation worthy of an investigation at the very least. Instead the state govt. dismissed the priest the very next day. Neither the allegation nor the dismissal raised any flags among the Hindu haters that dominate media. In the meantime this same Kerela state govt, loses its interest in women's rights when its comes to how the local Church is hounding its nuns who dared file a complaint of rape against Bishop Franco. While the accused rapist is out being feted at public rallies, the nuns are being hounded from the convent they lived in for years and the only male cleric who supported them, was found dead in fishy circumstances.
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"Ms. Ammini and a friend became the first women to enter the Sabarimala Temple, a centuries-old Hindu shrine, after India’s Supreme Court struck down a longstanding rule preventing women of menstruating age from visiting.
In the wake of that ruling, a dozen women tried in October to climb a slippery path leading to the temple. None of them made it, as men screamed in their faces and hurled coconuts."
This is what organized religion, and the men who invented it to declare themselves top dog in perpetuity, looks like. Our own beloved VP is so afraid (or contemptuous) of women he has a "rule"- the refusal to eat alone with a woman other than his wife. Because, you know, having a meal with a co-worker can...well....you know....presumably tell us a lot about Mike Pence and his warped mind.
A heartbeat away from the Presidency. A man who clearly does not believe in separation of church and state. A man who cannot fathom how to relate to 50% of humanity. A man whose oh-so-virtuous wife is proud to join a school which regards gays as subhuman and treats them accordingly.
Time to buy coconut futures.
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What else but Religion would bar a woman from equal participation because of a natural body function?
The idea that women are “unclean” and unworthy is a long held religious opinion in Islam as well. Pathetic.
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Hmm, she says she wanted to inspire little girls.
Sneaking into the temple at 3 am in the morning is inspiration ?
Ms. Ammini , the lady in the story readily admits that she belongs to the leftist communists group.
Then, what about the mosque close to this temple ? Women are not allowed to pray in there . Why did the communists not agitate to gain entry to the mosques ? Why ?
Only the Hindu girls need to be inspired ?
There is much more to the story than this lady trying to inspire girls.
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A key piece of misrepresentation in all this reporting on Sabrimala is that historically and legally, a Hindu temple is not a public space. Rather it’s the home of the deity it enshrines-and as such those who visit the home are subject to rules pertaining to the deity. That is why every temple has its own set of rules and rituals and there are 3-4 temples where women are not allowed, just like there are 3-4 temples where men are not allowed. But now the atheist communist party is hell bent on wiping out this diversity of thought and becoming the modern day Ayotollah for a faith that never had any.
Double standards rule, since the same communist state govt. that sneaked her into Hindu Sabrimala, arrested three other women who tried to visit the Vavar mosque a couple of days after her visit. Did the reporter wonder why a professed communist -meaning an atheist- has this burning desire to visit a temple? And why she did not stop enroute at the Vavar Mosque-since -tradition and faith both requires all visitors to Sabrimala to circumambulate the Vavar mosque before going to the Temple?
This and many similar acts make their intent quite clear --- the issue is not women's rights but the secular state's desire to commandeer the assets of this rich temple. And they have realized they can do so attacking its traditions and turning the sacred home of a deity into a public picnic spot.
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They both are heroes, showing great courage in the face of hatred. I hope for their safety they continue their quest for equality.
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What is the difference between this and a USA Evangelical Church embracing a group of openly Gay people attending their services??
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This entire spectacle has been organized by the Communist Party of India (Marxist) - which governs the state - to deflect their incompetence in managing the state of Kerala. Their glaring ineptitude during the recent floods that devastated the state has left them clinging to power. These two women are members of the CPI (M) and care little about gender bias. The Western media can continue to harp on this as an issue as it meets their agenda ahead of the country's elections this year.
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Exactly. There are serious gender discrimination issues that affect everyday life of women in India such as harassment, control by men in their lives, not considered as legal heirs of family property etc.
This temple issue is a political farce started by local government to defeat BJP in the upcoming polls and has been blown out of proportion by the media and is unfortunately taken up as a major cause célèbre by well meaning liberals everywhere.
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It's the same story everywhere, narrow minded nationalist men, wrapped in religion. These are the Trumps of the world, insecure, unkind and fearful of loosing their status.
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I wonder how people should think through issues of this kind. Why limit the discussion to Men vs Women. Consider for example, if it is reasonable to have a person of a different sex or religion be given equal opportunity to become the priest of this temple, a right that should guaranteed by Govt.
Basically this comes down to modern day government's right to dictate how societies should reorient their traditional lifestyles. Should supreme court of USA say that all religious institutions in afford same privileges to marry two consenting individuals, without regard to their membership, sex, etc.
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"Should supreme court of USA say that all religious institutions in afford same privileges to marry two consenting individuals, without regard to their membership, sex, etc."
You can't compare this case with American law. The Supreme Court has ruled that private non-commercial organizations (such as the Boy Scouts) may discriminate.
Requiring a minister/rabbi/priest, etc ... to marry two individuals would be a violation of their religious freedoms. Members of the clergy refuse to marry couples for any number of reasons (inter-faith, gay, not ready for marriage, divorced, etc...) all the time without interference by the government.
The bigger risk in the US is the interference by religion in government affairs.
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@Barry Short It actually is a great analogy-because traditionally a Hindu temple has never been seen a public space like a mosque or church are. Rather they are the home of the deity in question-and thus subject to rules for visitation like any home may use. The fight is actually about the secular state using the cover of women's rights to get control of Hindu temples, which BTW are the source of much historical wealth. Once in control, a temples wealth is quickly comandeered by the state-renting its lands out at minimal rates to "preferred" parties, misappropriating incoming revenues for political uses and in the worst cases, even enabling the sale of historical treasures.
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@Barry Short
Ignore the details of USA. The question is what can a democratically formed Judicial branch (Government) dictate. Who draws that line.
What creepy men there are in India.
Throwing coconuts?
Hysterically throwing around water because a "dirty" woman had dared to step there?
I read of women like Ms. Ammini and I am so proud of them. They have both brains and guts and a quiet dignity to them.
And then I read of the men around them: sexual hysterics, violent, ignorant, rapists and murderers, and gutless wonders who protect such men.
Who would these women marry?
And then the line in the article.... "Even his love letters were serious."
Oh. My eyes filled.
I am so proud of who you are.
You are my heroes.
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@rosa. Before you cast stones at men in any other part of the world, read the statistics about rape and killings by men in the United States.
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Your first statement makes me think you are either too young or not seen enough of the world. There are creepy men, and women all around the world. Let's not forget that the judges that ruled for this law were men too.
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Indian male here. These women are heroes. So glad these women stood up to a stubbornly patriarchal society that is hide-bound in a male supremacist mindset. Pranaam to Ms. Kanakadurga and Ms. Ammini.!!
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“We were not trying to start trouble." Right. You enter a place of religious worship in violation of its proscription, because you disagree with its doctrine, knowing full well the Hindu temper about such things, and you were not trying to start trouble. Irresponsible.
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So ignorance and bigotry should continue unchallenged? Then we would still have slavery, women wouldn’t have the right to vote, etc.
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@17Airborne It is telling that this petition in the Supreme Court was filed by a muslim man. And in the months since the Supreme Court intruded on the Hindu's rights to private property and religious faith, Hindu women have taken to the street in lakhs-to protest the court judgement. In contrast the only women seeking to enter have been professed Atheist, Muslim and Christian women-with the full desire to incite and rub their victory into the faith of polytheist believers
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Firstly, I am truly inspired by your daring act to break the ceiling. Many kudos to Ms. Ammini, Ms. Kanakadurga and Ms. Dhanya Sanal (who recently climbed Agasthyakoodam in Kerala). Secondly, having read most of the Hindu scriptures and also being raised in an orthodox Hindu family, I simply cannot understand the outrage caused by some elements of the society on this episode. I strongly recommend for those who oppose "temple-entry" by these women to go through fascinating aspects of Hinduism on the Concept of Shakthi or Ardanareshiwiri so on and so forth.
Om Shanthi!
JM, Pennsylvania
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This is going to earn me brickbats, but here goes:
The tradition simply bars women of a certain age from visiting this particular temple at Sabarimala.
The belief about the temple is that the deity is celibate and must not be 'tempted' by a woman of menstruating age. In deference to this tradition, if you are a true believer, you will not break this practice - whether you are a man or a woman.
However distasteful this sounds, it is one of many such traditions of the version of Hinduism practiced in the southern state of Kerala in India. I am from northern India, and till this controversy cropped up, had not even heard of Sabarimala. Still, I have some thoughts about this issue.
The article describes the history of Ms. Ammini who was "interesting in visiting the temple". Why? Was it because she was a believer? No, obviously not. Her communist party background more likely implies she is an atheist, and has no true 'beliefs' regarding the deity at Sabarimala.
Why then, did she go? It was obviously not because of any true beliefs, as I have stated above - if she was a believer, she wouldn't have gone.
“Our goal was only to visit the temple. For the next generation of women, this is motivation.”
Motivation for what - to violate cultural practices?
But we readers of exalted papers such as the NYT, must aspire to be civilized and modern, and therefore must accept that all such acts of defiance are placed above any religious wounds that are caused in the process.
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@Rohit Lal
thanks for being brave enough to write this. We are seeing state sponsored theft underway. It is sickening to see papers like NYT cheerleading the assault of the ruling atheist ideology on a small and increasingly powerless Hindu believers minority. NYT even covers up the blatant double standards the same state govt uses in arresting three women who tried to visit the Vavar mosque-part of the same pilgrimage-just days after this lady's visit to Sabrimala
5
“Women of a certain age” aren’t dirty, even during menstruation. My mother wasn’t allowed to attend my baptism over 50 years ago bc the patriarchal Catholic Church considered her unclean. That antiquated law no longer stands. When my daughter has a baby she will be right there on the altar in a Catholic Church with her husband and the baby’s godparents. Change is slow and often difficult.
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@Vic: The ‘change’ you talk about in this context will mean that eventually, the deference paid to the nature of the deity of the Sabarimala temple will no longer be respected. So, what you’re hoping for is that this deity eventually becomes irrelevant.
What was the issue in the first place? The temple was off-limits to women. It was an exclusive, males-only place. There are worse things to worry about in this world.
No child marriage, no polygamy, no physical abuse, no sexual abuse, no threats to livelihood. Nothing of the sort.
So, stop sermonizing us about your much awaited ‘change’.
4
India's Supreme Court struck down a law legitimizing a discriminatory religious tradition. The same would have happened in the United States.
What comes next is more complicated. Imagine a Jewish woman flanked by New York police as she entered a Hassidic temple, insisting on sitting with her husband in the men's section. Is government involvement an assertion of the woman's 14th Amendment rights of equal protection, or a violation of the temple leaders' First Amendment right to religious freedom?
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There's no reason to think that the US Supreme would have ruled that women may enter a religious structure in defiance of religious tradition, unless that structure was also engaged in commerce of some kind or receiving taxpayer dollars.
Nor is there any reason to think that the courts would order a temple to seat women with men. Courts have always stayed out the internal affairs of religious institutions. The conservative claim that allowing secular same-sex marriage would lead to courts requiring ministers to perform such unions never made any sense. If the courts were going to interfere in such matters, they would have had grounds to do so long ago in any instance where a minister/priest/rabbi refused to marry an inter-faith couple.
4
@Len Arends yours is a truly thoughtful response. For many self important readers the usual reactions are to say that all Indian men are bad / Hindu traditions are somehow uncivilized etc without asking whether there are not many such customs through other religions and countries, including right here in the USA. You rightly point out that such contradictions exist everywhere on earth. Whether a society is willing to confront them or change them is the question.
4
@Len Arends Here’s an analogy that might be closer to home for an American audience: would the US Supreme Court force the Catholic Church to admit women to the priesthood? Or for that matter would Congress pass a law requiring that? That’s a rhetorical question, we all know that the answer is a resounding “No”.
I’m an atheist, and I have no interest whatsoever in the religious dogma and/or beliefs underlying the tradition of excluding women from the temple. But I am a fervent believer in the right to free speech and to opinions, even when I deeply abhor the speech and/or the opinions.
This case also raises many questions about the motivations of the protagonists. They are self-proclaimed Marxists, and the dogma of Indian communism is militantly atheistic. Indian communists want to demolish religion and its institutions, by force if necessary (in this, they replicate the tenets of Soviet Marxism). This visit is intended to stir up strife and inflame religious sensitivities.
Respect for the right for people to hold even abhorrent opinions is the bedrock of civilization. Women have the right to boycott any religion or sect whose teachings they disagree with. Alternatively, they can work to change the minds of practitioners. But it’s counterproductive and morally derelict to endanger the lives and livelihoods of others in pursuit of a dogmatic ideal that does nothing to change minds.
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Such courage.
8
Wake up India. Throw away the centuries of superstition and nonsense. Reform the thinking. Worship One God: Bramha.
Clinging on to myth is harmful to mankind.
5
Ms. Ammini and Ms. Kanakadurga. Two amazing spiritual warriors.
peace be with you both
Equality for all.
J
8
As an Indian origin man, I applaud these women for their courage. I am still conflicted as to whether and how womens rights and mens rights apply to religious dogma. But the Supreme court has ruled that there has to be equality in worship, so the law must be upheld. If not for women like these, the law would simply be in the books, without a change in practice.
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As an Indian woman, I say a heartfelt thank you to Ms. Ammini and Ms. Kanakadurga. I applaud their courage and pray for their continued safety.
For too long, women in India have been treated as second class citizens. Such acts give hope to the generation of little girls growing up in India.
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