The haves are counting it on keeping the have nots under control.
I support marijuana legalization but there needs to be more research! The pressure by marijuana industry, like with alcohol & tobacco, may get the ball rolling so fast it will be too late for some. I worked once with a woman who had cannanis related psychosis and lost her children to state care and with a sweet natured young man (people who knew him well also described him thus) who murdered his wife, half-brother & infant child in a psychotic state I suspect was cannabis related. My point is folks need to be aware and informed of potential downsides. A PBS Newshour report today stated a higher correlation seems to exist between edible cannabis and ER psychosis. We can't close our eyes to the fact that youth, with their developing brains (and immature judgement), will pay the price for the gummy bear 'highs' of private profit companies & state budgets, if both research & honest, humble public info are not prioritized now.
5
The question we must ask is do marijuana and tobacco effect sleep. Sleep experts say that most mental illness is due to poor, or little, sleep. To get the sleep you get at the coast when the wind blows in from the sea just heat salt water in an oil burner overnight. In just five nights insomnia is cured, and this takes with it all symptoms of mental illness. Sound too dangerous? Then heat the salt water during the day to simulate a walk by the sea side.
If the reason you wake up is to go to the toilet then ever increasing lengths of holds in pelvic floor exercises will help.
I have never doubted in my mind that my young adult son became psychotic from 2 years of heavy marijuana use. My family and my husband's have no history of mental illness. We were shocked. He lived away from us and we had no idea he was addicted. The psychiatrist who saw my son said marijuana "fried" (his exact word) his brain. Another psychiatrist warned him that even just one puff will cause another psychotic episode. And that's what exactly happened. He has stayed clean since but has had a couple of manic episodes more, which I attribute to him having been taken off medication abruptly. He was diagnosed bipolar with psychotic symptoms and has been medicating as such for about 8 years now. His psychiatrist could say anything, but I do not believe my son is bipolar. The medication prescribed to him only leaves him flat and morose. What I believe is that a "fried" brain takes long to recover, but recover it will with the right therapy, gradual reduction to zero medication under close medical supervision, a healthy lifestyle, a productive career, and good support from friends and family. I have seen my bright and self-driven son suffer, and have read enough about marijuana to convince me it causes great harm to the brain of our young adult children.
11
We don't think so.
I asked me and I said, nope.
None of us see any issue.
1
I dont use it when everybody is watching me......
The new reefer madness. I'm 50-something. Along with most of my friends and acquaintances, I smoked weed in high school, some of it quite potent. A few of my friends from then and new friends I have made have smoked daily, more or less, since their teens. To my knowledge none of the short term or long term smokers have any psychoses let alone schizophrenia. The only thing the research seems to indicate is that people genetically predisposed to mental illness are more likely to develop metal illness and that lots of things from nicotine to alcohol to THC may be triggers. As so many here have pointed out, unlike THC cigarettes cause many cancers and alcohol predisposes one to car accidents, lost marriages, cirrhosis, and bar fights. A little balance please!
4
What no scientist should disagree with, and what every article like this should emphasize, is that cannabis is far less harmful than alcohol or nicotine. "Tell Your Children" is based on spurious conclusions from weak science.
9
I have read studies which have shown a link between regular cannabis use in adolescence and sub-threshold psychotic symptoms. I also read a study which did not indicate that teens who are at higher risk of psychotic disorders are more likely to smoke cannabis than those who aren’t. Development of psychotic disorders is not the only detriment of adolescent use; longterm cognitive and memory impairment have also been indicated with regular use in adolescence.
The argument of high smoking rates in people with schizophrenia is a complete misrepresentation and distortion of the truth behind this association. Nicotine has been shown to ameliorate cognitive impairment in psychotic disorders. This is based off the theory that the nicotinic receptor is abnormal and exogenous nicotine improves symptoms. Cannabis has never been shown to improve psychotic symptoms and can worsen them dramatically. Either the author is unaware of this or intentionally distorting the facts to strengthen his argument. People think cannabis is safe or benign, but it is still a psychoactive substance which dramatically impacts the developing brain.
4
@Liz Turner When you make multiple assertions like this, you should really cite credible resources to back them up. "I read studies.." is about as reliable as "My Mom's college roommate said.."
4
@Brian Concurrent and Sustained Cumulative Effects of Adolescent
Marijuana Use on Subclinical Psychotic Symptoms
Jordan Bechtold, Ph.D.a, Alison Hipwell, Ph.D.a, David Lewis, Ph.D.a, Rolf Loeber, Ph.D.a,
and Dustin Pardini, Ph.D.b
aDepartment of Psychiatry, University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, Sterling Plaza, Suite 408, 201
North Craig Street, Pittsburgh PA 15213
bDepartment of Criminology and Criminal Justice, Arizona State University, 411 N. Central Ave.,
Suite 600, Phoenix, AZ 85004
2
@Brian This study also discusses how there is currently no evidence indicating reverse causation in regard to self-medicating in individuals at risk or who have developed psychotic symptoms.
Am J Psychiatry. 2016 August 01; 173(8): 781–789. doi:10.1176/appi.ajp.2016.15070878.
Concurrent and Sustained Cumulative Effects of Adolescent
Marijuana Use on Subclinical Psychotic Symptoms
Jordan Bechtold, Ph.D.a, Alison Hipwell, Ph.D.a, David Lewis, Ph.D.a, Rolf Loeber, Ph.D.a,
and Dustin Pardini, Ph.D.b
aDepartment of Psychiatry, University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, Sterling Plaza, Suite 408, 201
North Craig Street, Pittsburgh PA 15213
bDepartment of Criminology and Criminal Justice, Arizona State University, 411 N. Central Ave.,
Suite 600, Phoenix, AZ 85004
2
If a genetic predisposition for schizophrenia exists cannabis could be a problem. Perhaps not as much as cigarettes, alcohol , flashing lights , and FOX news though. Vaccinations have been looked at as a possible culprit, as many schizophrenics had childhood vaccinations.
5
How dare you peddle this pseudo science written by a former employee with no discernible knowledge of the subject. Reading the summary by the publisher it reads like a pamphlet from the 1920's, absent of facts, attempting to demonize cannabis.
You should be ashamed of publishing such a piece.
3
Who is Mr. Cary, and why is the New York Times beating a dead horse over and over again. The ENTIRE PACIFIC COAST, maybe with the exception of Baja California has legalized cannabis - all varieties.
But this statement "Psychosis is a symptom: a temporary disorientation that resembles a waking dream, with odd, imagined sights and sounds, often accompanied by paranoia or an ominous sensation." is absolutely incorrect.
Is this author a student of neurophysiology, neuropsychology, or neuropharmacology?
Has he ever witnessed someone in a psychotic state?
I have.
And it is not this benign paranoid state. It is a very agitated state involving hallucinations, delusions, false sense of invincibility. Many under the influence of a psychotic state, jump out of windows, either to her death or complete ruin.
Cannabis causes psychic disturbances, but no where near of that of a natural caused psychosis.
But those individuals who might be suffering from an underlying brain-chemical imbalance, it can trigger or activate that state, to express a psychosis.
I know roommates, people who are relations, strangers, tenants in the same building who are psychotic.
They are dangerous and they need medical care for specific neuropharmacological care.
1
Weed's legal in California. I smell it every day. At the playground. A cloud of smoke from a car when a dad's dropping off his 8-yr old to our school. On the interstate, on sidewalks. In stores, just reeking from someone's pocket. People sit in parked cars, especially at playgrounds and parks, and light up. I'm sick of it. The police do nothing. Too many rapes and murders and burglaries, I guess.
8
Nice loaded headline there NYT! With a Vague semi-answer hidden in the article that states within itself to be be incomplete data to boot... How about the possibility that people with mental disorders are attracted to Marijuana for self medicating? nope, not even mentioned (for a start
!)
If I was your teacher, I would strongly encourage you to do more research and rewrite this weak argument, with something useful for people to read before I would let you turnits in. Thanks, but no thanks.
4
I am bipolar. If I smoke it's brutal.
6
Alcohol is legal and many more people die from it compared to any other psychoactive drugs, directly by liver damage and mental illness, and indirectly through accidents of all types, and unmitigated but intentional violence.
How come we don't see any serious reporting of all the studies that have been done on that "substance".
Perhaps the alcohol industry is too powerful for even Times to entangle with it. We loose incalculable precious human life to it, not just from death but from debilitation.
There is no safe lowest limit for alcohol and yet the media is full of it, even TV show hosts advertise it by drinking on the set, not just as part of a plot.
Compare the problems alcohol creates every day vs. cannabis. Let us hear the statistics on both sides.
Psoriasis plus mental damage due to permanent brain damage is caused mostly by alcohol.
1
We need to be afraid of Marijuana? Nearly 300,000 people have died from the Opioid Crisis. What we need to be afraid of is Capitalism.
6
Oh jeeze. They have bad information. Different varieties of marijuana, especially medical but recreational too, have varying concentrations of THC. It's not ALL high potency! I'm not even a user and I know that.
3
I’m no scientist but here in The Netherlands I have some experiences with marijuana users that had to be send to the psychiatric ward. In my experience those individuals would have gone psychotic without any abuse of drugs. It is my opinion that pot or marijuana is just the preferred drugs of some people with mental issues as a way to self medicate themselves. So it might not be a gatewaydrug that causes psychosis but a more natural phenomenon that people with certain tendencies choose a particular drug.
Ik have experienced something like this myself as I once was addicted and attracted to drugs like cocaine and speed because they calmed me down in my head. It might not have been a surprise that I was later diagnosed with Attention Deficit Disorder and put on a stimulant like Ritalin. Did the drugs made met ADD or was the drug use self medication?
6
I have been successfully treating schezprebia for many years. The prohibitionists, law enforcement and big pharma along with big pharma and many other ignorant and poorly educated persons will attempt to say T.H.C. caused the condition. No so. Just the opposite. There is probably a cure for many psychological maladies in T.H.C.
I'm afraid your colleague, Berenson, is wound a little too tight. His book is a plethora of unproven statements (even though he makes a fine attempt at "validating" his biased sources). He's very annoying and arrogant in person, and does not exactly entice people to want to hear what he has to say (which is far too much).
When all is said and done on this subject by Berenson (and yourself in this article) -- it is clear you both have an anti-marijuana agenda.
When medical students ask me why a plant with so many potential therapeutic uses is so prohibited by Federal policies that it is the only so-called “dangerous narcotic” drug that cannot be legally researched and developed, my usual answer is “follow the money.” I think that advice also applies to the torrent of mis-information that has resulted from Mr Berenson’s obvious advertisement hyping his new book that was accepted and run by the newspaper that he formerly wrote for. It is very hard to put “false news” or “alternative realities” back in the box once they are let out, and we are seeing this phenomenon play out here. Instead of a scientific discussion, the persons favoring (and usually profiting from) prohibition are touting all the discredited myths of reefer madness and yellow journalism, and no amount of credible scientific information can stop the damage being done to modern cannabis therapeutic development or the racist destruction of countless lives that continued enforcement of prohibition has caused.
1
I have used cannabis throughout my life intermittently for 40 years. I find it useful at certain times and for certain reasons. I have not experienced any ill side effects as this article has illustrated. I am sure there are cases, I am not one of them.
If you consume any mind altering substance on a daily basis you may have a problem - alcohol, cannabis, nicotine, even caffeine. I stopped using alcohol several decades ago and don't miss it.
I think that on a scale of harmfulness, alcohol & nicotine are more harmful than cannabis and coffee. This is my opinion that is based on use of all of these substances at one time or another.
Though I enjoy a coffee daily in the morning, I do not consume cannabis on a regular basis, when I do it provides a creative way to unwind and provide a helpful shift in perspective. When I wake up in the morning, I don't feel groggy or ill. I feel refreshed and centered.
I realize this anecdote is a sample of one (1) - but it is my experience. I read that Willie Nelson stopped drinking more than 50+ years ago and switched to cannabis use instead. He is in his mid-80's and still going strong.
Anecdote or not, there is something to be said for which poison you pick.
3
So many anti-cannabis comments include statements to the effect that “denying any risks associated with marijuana use is irresponsible/wrong/a coverup.” Where do these commentators get the idea that any proponents of regulating the adult use of cannabis is denying that there are risks associated with its use, just as there is with the use of any chemical, drug or even food? This is the underlying flaw in Berenson’s book as pointed out by Dr David Nathan when they were both interviewed on CNN the other night. No credible source would claim zero risk for anything consumed for pleasure or any enjoyable activity. This is just another straw man created by drug war profiteers to prop up a failed set of policies that have prevented us from ascertaining what the risks and benefits of cannabis consumption really are.
1
The researchers here sound like amateurs with data and statistics, to be candid. You have millions of people who have smoked marijuana fairly regularly for a long period of time, and marijuana effects different people in different ways. So in that sampling of millions, it's almost guaranteed that those on the extreme end of the scale will have extreme side effects, just based on the massive size of the data sample. You'd get the exact same results with caffeine, for the exact same reasons. And that's not even getting into how complicated and diverse mental health issues can be.
People have died from drinking too much water. Stop looking at the extreme cases and stick with the bell curve. Alcohol destroys more lives than all other drugs combined, and that includes the recent jump in opiates. Marijuana, even IF it were to cause a moderate increase in the percentage of mental health conditions of those who used it, still wouldn't even be measurable on that scale.
3
@RS
I think this article does point all this out:
"... so can overuse of caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, stimulants and hallucinogens. Psychosis is a symptom: a temporary disorientation that resembles a waking dream, with odd, imagined sights and sounds, often accompanied by paranoia or an ominous sensation. The vast majority of people who have this kind of psychotic experience do not go on to develop a persistent condition such as schizophrenia, which is characterized by episodes of psychosis that recur for years, as well as cognitive problems and social withdrawal."
The author goes on to point out that these concerns are magnified by newer, more potent forms of THC--in much the same way that would be expected with higher proof alcohol. He goes on to discuss familial risks, again akin to varied risks with alcohol use. As was stated::
"Because marijuana has been illegal for so long, research that could settle the question has been sorely lacking, although that has begun to change. The National Institutes of Health have launched a $300 million project that will track thousands of children from the age of 9 or 10 through adolescence, and might help clarify causation."
8
I don't know if marijuana reveals sub-clinical mental illness, or actually creates it.
I do know that I believe the reason my brother started having delusions and speaking in rhyme was due to his heavy marijuana use.
And now, as an adult who has not smoked a joint in years, he has to be on anti-anxiety medication or he cannot drive or work. No one in our family has schizophrenia or general anxiety disorder.
And frankly, myself and others are allergic to marijuana smoke - one friend almost died (she told me after I told her about my bad reaction to marijuana smoke). I agree that for some people, marijuana is like a cure-all, but it is not for all people. I hope someday that people who do need delta 9-THC will get it in a proper form, and marijuana leaves will be something only harvested for pharmaceutical companies, like poppies should be.
10
So we should ban peanuts because some people are allergic to them? Tell that to the peanut farmers and children eating their cracker jacks without allergic reactions. What is it about cannabis that every problem related to excessive or inappropriate use is seen as a cause for continuing a failed policy of prohibition and a total ban on controlled clinical studies to investigate its therapeutic and properties and possible adverse side effects. Has the 70 years of reefer madness mentality created an inability to recognize the insanity of a set of policies that have destroyed countless lives under the guise of protecting us from a plant that has never caused a death in its millennia of use prior to prohibition??
1
I am a retired grades JK-8 elementary school teacher/principal and I have gathered many anecdotal stories over the years that link adolescent use of cannabis with the onset of schizophrenia. One case involved my stepdaughter, who regularly smoked cannabis with her mother during her teen years. She has had full-blown schizophrenia for years. I have had many parents and grandparents also share their stories with me - youth and marijuana if there is a family history of mental illness is a deadly combination...and I am speaking as a medical cannabis patient who has eschewed opiates and cannabis is my only medication for arthritis and complications from scoliolis, and I am doing very well.
7
@Kathy Proulx
I use opiates infrequently but regularly - approximately one pill twice per week. Yes, that's per WEEK.
I am allergic to marijuana smoke - my throat closes up and I get very ill.
My adjunct to opiates, which works very well, is using a crutch or crutches for all but the shortest distances. I also have the ability to walk around at work frequently - sitting all day at a desk would probably require me to take opiates all day.
It is unfortunate that some of us cannot take NSAIDs (I have severe ulcers due to NSAID use when I was in my 20s) and now are vilified for any opiate use at all.
3
@RH
Here in California, if a patient asks for pain medication, - they are instantly surveilled by their doctor. Their physician will search a database connected to all the pharmacies accessible to the Hospital's network. Then, prior to writing a prescription for any drug that is scheduled any for any medical real reason,
the patient has to give a "urine sample".
Yep the Patient IS THE CRIMINAL.
Drs. prescribed NSAIDS for me for a decade. I cannot ingest another NSAID other than acetaminophen.
There is an origin for this violation of patient's rights. We all should attack it.
3
My grandmother was schizophrenic and had many episodes. In my early 20s I’d been hospitalized for my episodes as well. There was lack of sleep, stress, drug and alcohol use. I think it’s the genes and all the others factors just exacerbated the
episodes.
5
I have bipolar disorder, the manic phases of which were triggered by marijuana in my early 20s. The first of these episodes landed me a diagnosis of schizophrenia, so bizarre was my behavior; however, anti-psychotic medication did nothing to quell the symptoms. Only an observant doctor changing medication to lithium stabilized my mental state and led to my re-diagnosis.
This does not mean marijuana caused my bipolar disorder, rather it unmasked the worst parts of it. Some 25 years later, after years of abstaining, I tried marijuana again as a pain-relieving cancer therapy adjunct. Though it did not trigger mania, my mind immediately retreated to that horrible, infinite loop experience tinged with religious grandiosity and apocalyptic paranoia. I could navigate that space, now that I am older, but I sure couldn't as a young adult. To achieve a therapeutic response, I adjusted my dosage far down, with a higher CBD-to-THC ratio. Still, it's not a drug I can use and go about my day normally. It alters me.
As well as my own anecdotal experience, I'm sure many ER doctors and nurses can relate stories just like mine. It's disingenuous to claim that marijuana is harmless. However, it's also dishonest to overlook the harm done by alcohol, prescribed opiates, and even the psych meds with black box warnings that have sent people to violence against self and others--Haldol was 1000x worse than marijuana in its mental effects, and drove me to the only suicide attempt of my life.
18
@meller
Yes, but that's the ultimate question - how can we compare all of these?
If I have one 7.5 mg Norcan and one or two alcoholic drinks, I have great relief from significant pain due to spinal stenosis and a herniated disk. Lucky for me, that occurs rarely, not even once per month.
Yet that's the thing, alcohol is a "social prescription" - people self-medicate.
When doctors prescribe pills with black boxes (like the one that gave me grand mal seizures), they don't really know what they are doing. Not one doctor I have had has said "please make sure to read the black box warning and let our office know if you have a problem". Instead, I was rolling on the ground not knowing why.
@meller. Bless you. I am sorry about your cancer. What you shared is completely true. People tend to confuse the argument against legalization with listening to warnings for people, like myself, with strong genetic predisposition to Axis 1 Diagnoses. It doesn’t even matter whether the connection is causal or correlated. Knowing one is related to the other should send such people running in the opposite direction. If You have mental illness in your family, do not use. And school yourself on what it’s like to go through a psychotic break, or watch a family member do it. It is horrible. Parents often feel they have lost the child they had to mental illness. Thanks for speaking out!
2
Note to the prohibitionists: Weed is really easy to get in most high schools now. All of the comments concerning friends, acquaintances, relatives who developed adolescent pyschosis, from possibly heavy smoking, occurred while it was illegal.
Legalizing pot will not cause more kids to smoke it. It would allow more effective control over its sale and distribution. Harm reduction is more effective than punishing users. Legalization will not increase pyschosis among youngsters.
6
@Borat Smith
I've read many though not all of the comments, but I am getting pretty familiar with this sort of flailing at straw men. Most sensible people are NOT in favor of prohibiting it and certainly not in favor of punish anyone. Most argue for greater awareness of the risks. It seems hard for people to focus on this topic.
8
Skunk weed and other manipulated hybrids contain up to 300 times THC levels than the unadulterated cannabis sativa.
That is just a simple fact.
Another simple fact is that the closed mental hospitals in England are full of (mainly black) young men who have become, for want of a better word, schizoprenia. Many doctors talk of ’a lost generation’.
Why mainly black? For the very simple reason that skunk weed is most common in the Caribbean communities in England, so there is a huge over-representation.
Like so many others, I spliffed heavily during my college & grad school years, and I have several friends who had severe psychotic experiences that scar them even today, 30 years later. And this was long before today’s ’turbo-weed’ existed.
So, yes, we have opened a Pandora’s box by legalizing pot.
And, as always, and with most intoxicants, a wee spliff of (unadulterated) weed now and then is very unlikely to do anyone any harm.
But the stuuf available today is extremely dangerous and I believe we made a huge mistake legalizing it.
Unfortunately.
Rastafarai !
8
I wonder how “closed hospitals” can be full of black men that became insane because of smoking pot? Has anybody investigated the locking up of black men and throwing away the keys that this writer tells us common practice in England? I very much doubt it. But I do know that countless studies have shown that our prisons are full of hundreds of thousands of mainly Black men whose only crimes were being found carrying a joint and not being able to afford a lawyer.
1
@Nils Wetterlind
untrue.
If what you said was true, the numbers of medical calls in the major cities of California would reflect such facts.
In fact, all is calm and quiet here.
Once again, the author is using the "mashed potatoes" school of scientific studies. That is: all mass murderers ate mashed potatoes as children, therefore.....
Look at the research done in other countries on cannabis...it is, by the way, not permitted to be studied in the U.S., due to the good old "Reefer Madness" school of thinking.
For instance, from Israel: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/249591 on the benefits of Cannabis use in children with autism......
and: https://www.newsweek.com/2018/02/23/really-good-weed-why-cannabis-may-be-worlds-most-effective-remedy-core-806758.html
or:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5767492/ benefits of Cannabis for epilepsy patients....
but, yeah, lets just bring out the same old fear mongering issues.....
7
@J. Somers
Excellent studies were done in the Netherlands and New York City, here's the Netherlands one:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2424288/
and some more:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5603819/
It is has been bloody obvious that cannabis CAN help epileptic patients who have no other recourse, and some cases of extreme pain. I suspect a parent whose child is at grave risk from severe epilepsy without other treatment would not care about a risk of schizophrenia.
You do know that some of the best oral anti-fungal drugs have psychosis as a side effect?
I do have a fear because I do have a severe marijuana allergy. And I do fear that a prescription drug is being overlooked for FDA regulation because it makes people "happier".
@J. Somers
This article is not at all scientific.
Cannabis - a couple of species, contain more than 400 compounds.
The CBD is the medical component, but the THC in microamounts enables its use in the human brain. The receptors in the brain for CBD, interact in part with THC.
@J. Somers. It is being studied in the US.
So, no?
1
@Deborah Klein
So, the science isn't settled, but there's evidence of risk. As the article said.
@DW. No if you have major mental illness in your family.
This “higher potency” narrative the media parrots consistently is a complete red herring. As if that makes it more dangerous or out of control somehow. As if people using marijuana are simpletons. This is just a brainless anti marijuana policy talking point.
Please consider this - if it’s stronger than it used to be, guess what? You use less. Same reason you don’t drink a six pack of gin, right? Who do you think does not understand this?
Please stop and think about what you are writing.
9
@Aaron Cohen
I actually agree with that point.
I do think there is a bit of hand-wringing on the part of the "think of the children" types. Like "Go Ask Alice" - your kid is going to be the one who gets the joint with K2 in it, the very first time he or she was offered one.
However, if YOU are smart enough to figure out "use less" because YOU are experienced and know your way around, you have to agree perhaps some others might not be. Like this guy:
https://www.denverpost.com/2014/04/17/man-who-plunged-from-denver-balcony-ate-6x-recommended-amount-of-pot-cookie/
One cookie was listed as 6.5 servings.
Nice job NYT! You are now stooping to clickbait status as your misleading article title grabs the reader’s attention! BuzzFeed anyone?
4
@Nancy Rosen
It's funny how mnny enjoyers of pot go to non sequitors almost immediately.
Like something has affected their mind.
3
Nah, rock and roll leads to insanity. We may as well blame religion while we are at it.
3
@hb
I find it humorous that the same people who say "the rest of you are fear-mongering" and "marijuana is perfectly safe" also say that marijuana is a life-changing drug for them and that they'd move to get it.
It's amazing that something that shouldn't be regulated has such a strong effect on some people.
2
This is an irresponsible headline. The answer is: there is no conclusive evidence marijuana causes Schizophrenia. That should be the title.
Suggestive titles such as: Do Low IQ People Vote Republican? are making an implication, especially with an ambiguous answer such as, Scientists are divided on whether or not Republican voters are Low IQ. If "Republican" causes you to react to the headline one way, try switching it to "Democrat" and see how your feeling about it changes. I think there is implication in that title structure and it suggests bias. If that is the intent, well, nicely done.
4
@Trebor
The question is not just whether marijuana use causes schizophrenia, in someone who would never have developed it. The question is whether it reveals subclinical mental illness, along the lines of psychosis or schizophrenia.
It did in my brother, who has not shown symptoms since he stopped using it. Yet he now has general anxiety disorder, which no one else in our family has.
3
“Does Cannabis use cause Schizophrenia”
Is a headline similar to “ Is the transmission of AIDS possible from toilet seats”
Fear based.
As the article states, no, Cannabis use does not cause schizophrenia.
The headline however will be read by a much greater percentage of people than the article, so in using such a headline the newspaper is promoting misinformation, or in other circles this is known as fake news.
4
@Alexandria
Reductio ad absurdum.
I clicked on this article because I have already read about many studies in the US and in the Netherlands regarding the correlation between marijuana use and schizophrenia, and cessation of marijuana use and regaining mental health.
1
Not to joke about this topic.
But these folks researching marijuana - for decades - you sure, they don't have some issues??
1
One data point: a friend who was wildly popular in high school, who excelled in wrestling and football, and went on to college and had a promising career in front of him, never smoked a cigarette — but began smoking marijuana heavily in his senior year. He soon developed the symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia, including auditory hallucinations. He lost his first, and last, career-track job and became homeless. He spent the rest of his life struggling along on strong medication, able to hold only unskilled jobs. In their zeal to decriminalize cannibis for the sake of a subset of the prison population, politicians and advocates are ignoring the potential damage this drug can do to young people going forward: it can ruin lives.
12
@PL Ok, but how do you know, with evidence, that your friend didn't already have symptoms and was attempting to self medicate. Just need to consider all possibilities. Vast majority of people do not have these experiences.
2
Schizophrenia is the result of CO accumulation in the brain, which comes from smoking anything. There is no increased risk among vapers who do not inhale CO. Any CO exposure increases activity of heme oxygenase-1, the Universal Stress Enzyme, which catabolizes heme proteins into iron, biliverdin and CO. See excellent review by Schpper et al in Jan 2019 Progress in Neurobiology
2
@Albert Donnay
So many doctors writing comments.
The author you mentions says HO-1 is " a potentially disease-modifying therapeutic target."
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/326447258_The_Sinister_Face_of_Heme_Oxygenase-1_in_Brain_Aging_and_Disease
You seem to be much more sure than the author is.
The federal government has prevented research by categorizing marijuana and THC as a schedule 1 narcotic, the same category as opioids, having no value. It is time for the DEA to change this designation and allow for more research.
It is also curious that the NYT has published a spate of articles that seem anti marijuana at a time when the region is considering legalizing marijuana. A balanced approach is one that I would expect from this organization.
4
Three things we know about marijuana:
We are legalizing a drug before we know its effects.
Those who are stoned should not be allowed operate a car or other dangerous equipment.
Smoking anything over a long enough time seems to damage the lungs and other body systems. By smoking I mean any time you are inhaling anything other than air, so yes, vaping is smoking. We are setting up a long term time bomb that will go off in about 20 years when we see the results of frequent and prolonged marijuana and vaping use.
For young people, go into the health field as a Respiratory Tech. You will receive multiple job offers and have lifetime employment.
6
@Bruce1253 - No. Marijuana is the most studied plant on earth. -- The gold standard of marijuana research is found in the major government commissions on marijuana - including President Nixon's Shafer Commission of 1972. All the major commissions have concluded marijuana is not addictive, is less harmful than alcohol and should be regulated as is alcohol.
Marijuana is not alcohol. The preponderance of the research shows marijuana consumption is NOT a significant cause of auto accidents. In 2015, the U.S. Department of Transportation's National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, found that while drunken driving dramatically increased the risk of getting into an accident, there was no evidence that using marijuana heightened that risk.
The country's leading researcher of marijuana and lung disease, UCLA's Dr. Donald Tashkin, conducted investigations over 30 years, initially believing there must be a causal relationship. But he finally concluded that smoking marijuana does NOT cause cancer or ANY other serious disease.
Tashkin said: "We hypothesized that there would be a positive association between marijuana use and lung cancer, and that the association would be more positive with heavier use. What we found instead was no association at all, and even some suggestion of a protective effect."
If consumers want to avoid even the minor irritation from smoke, they can partake with edibles or by vaporizers.
4
From the outset, article mistakenly assumes validity of medical diagnostic category of "schizophrenia." What is it? The "diagnostic criteria" is concocted by the pseudo medical specialty of psychiatry..."Schizophrenia" is pure fiction--a descriptive term that compasses every from of seemingly outward UN-explainable bizarre human behavior. No consensus on what exactly it is! No bio-markers, although psychiatry tries to make it seem as if there is one or we are just waiting to find it. Peddled by psychiatrists and parroted by media, and merely serves as a functional yet bogus explanation, since on cannot be given. Not to in anyway diminish misery persons suffer from phenomenon labeled "schizophrenia," but a meaningless word, word that unless you are trying to make a living as a psychiatrist. Psychiatry itself is actually the disease it seeks to cure.
2
@Edward
I can tell you that a symptom of mariuana use is not understanding why people use the ENTER key.
But I do think many psychiatrists could go out of business if their clients just were in decent relationships. I'd be in a gutter if I wasn't in an excellent relationship.
This is just warmed-over Reefer Madness and propaganda. -- The alleged marijuana/schizophrenia connection stemmed from an observation that a certain percentage of schizophrenic patients consumed marijuana. Prohibitionists jumped on the idea that showed marijuana caused schizophrenia, and the media belched it out.
It turns out, some schizophrenic patients were actually self-medicating with cannabis. Further research has shown most patients obtain effective relief, while a few get aggravation of their symptoms.
But prohibitionists love this false causation idea so much they continue to cling to it, as the NYT does.
On the contrary, research shows marijuana helps prevent the deadly swelling from brain trauma, gives the brain more stamina, helps prevent and treat Alzheimer's and similar brain disease and actually stimulates the production of new brain cells.
6
@John Thomas
Au contraire, we have gone from "anyone who carries marijuana should either be ignored or be written a ticket" to "anyone should be allowed to use marijuana as much as they want".
You do realize that NO ONE has ever cared about potheads getting their hit? The only reason this is a thing is because it smacks of racism, that young black men were and are getting incarcerated because they find selling drugs a lucrative career.
Instead, legalization allows white folks to take advantage of potheads instead, disenfranchising people of color:
https://www.mcclatchydc.com/podcasts/majority-minority/article209437519.html
@John Thomas True - in the decade of the late 1900s, most of Europe used a cannabis extract, EMTs had this extract for use in the case of concussions for patients they picked up. It reduced very dangerous brain swelling.
1
Schizophrenia is an extremely complex disease because human brains and human persons are also complex. If you know you have direct relatives that have Schizophrenia why take a chance with marijuana. It is not worth it. Once you are labeled mentally ill it is very difficult and maybe impossible to get rid of it. Every mistake you make will be seen through the lense of oh so and so is mentally ill. Sadly we do a poor job of working with folks with mental illness. If not using marijuana prevents mental illness, or even delays onset for those with direct relatives, then not using is worth it.
5
Berenson's editorial of two weeks ago was an alarmist advertisement for his latest book, which rested on oversold conclusions from medical studies and crime statistics plus an absurd analogy to the opioid crisis. Thank you for this more measured article.
4
Thank you so much for this, NYT and Benedict Carey. A well-reasoned and factual piece, on a topic that generates SO much heat and so little light on both sides of the debate.
Long story short: There is some evidence cannabis use can initiate or hasten the onset of schizophrenia, perhaps in a subset of people with genetic predisposition. It is not proven.
That's the facts - with the usual blustering and outrage subtracted.
2
Let's instead put the facts down:
- Cannabis isn't good for everyone - cannabis use might be good for you and bad for me
- Some people do have problems when they smoke marijuana, then they don't smoke it anymore
- Some people feel that daily use of marijuana is beneficial for their mood - that makes marijuana a psychiatric drug
- Some psychiatric drugs have psychiatric side effects
If people would agree with those facts, then maybe we would all be better off, and could start a dialogue.
I read somewhere that Reefer Madness was actually a parody, but was taken seriously when it came out. Today, people take this parody as an absurd attack on cannabis.
Any corroboration to my statement?
@Erik
Name one jazz star who wasn't toking.
Biggest problem I see with studies like these---there are as many different psychiatric diagnoses for every patient as there are psychiatrists in the room. DSM (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) the "bible" of mental health providers makes the profession sound so scientific. It isn't. Psychiatry is still largely subjective. If I had a dollar for every sleep apnea and migraine patient I have met who was, at some point, (mistakenly) labelled bipolar by a psychiatrist, I would have enough money to buy a big screen television. Severely sleep deprived patients run the risk of getting a "borderline personality" disorder---which is basically medical science saying "There is no hope for you. You are flawed protoplasm. Get out of my office."
If we can not be sure that the subject population of ______(insert psychiatric diagnosis) actually suffer from _______(insert psychiatric diagnosis) how can we hope to come up with a statistical association with anything? Much less a cause and effect relationship, which requires a double blind prospective study in which one group is given weed and another is given placebo and we follow the two groups for decades to see which group has more ______(insert psychiatric diagnosis).
5
The "cognitive dissonance" of sloughing
off challenging research is where most/many
of us may end-up.
Unhappily I try to understand ambiguity, and thus probably semi considered a darn reactionary fool to which I plead ... guilty.
I grew up in Berkeley, CA where many of my friends would smoke high potency cannabis daily for years on end.
Recently, almost everyone I know has quit due to the sudden onset of severe anxiety and borderline psychotic symptoms when smoking. It seems to have happened to everyone after ~8-10 years of rather frequent or daily use that never caused any problems before.
We all agree that it should be legal, but it’s very clear to us as avid former users that at a certain point repeated cannabis use can cause severe mental problems, if not full blown psychosis.
This should be no surprise, considering that high potency synthetic cannabinoids are known to cause severe psychotic symptoms. Further research should be conducted into natural cannabinoids to determine dose response relationships and toxicities associated with repeated administration, as is done for ALL drugs that go through FDA.
Caution is key—too much of anything is not good.
8
@Albert Yates - Anecdotal "information" carries little weight for various good reasons. One is you could be making it up, which in your case, is a certainty.
Science and widespread experience have shown marijuana has no significant harms and NO permanent effects. - Marijuana doesn't impair thinking. It enhances it.
Carl Sagan was a world-renowned astronomer, cosmologist, astrophysicist, astrobiologist, author, and science educator. He had a brilliant career and was beloved by the English-speaking world. He smoked marijuana recreationally every day. He said:
"The devastating insights achieved when high are real insights... I can remember one occasion... one idea led to another, and at the end of about an hour of extremely hard work I found I had written eleven short essays on a wide range of social, political, philosophical, and human biological topics... From all external signs, such as public reactions and expert commentary, they seem to contain valid insights. I have used them in university commencement addresses, public lectures, and in my books."
7
@Albert Yates
Al - you are not a scientist. Your estimate of 8 to 10 years is not scientific.
Berkeley is NOT a bastion of Cannabis. There are many people actually working, creating, and living there.
To my certain knowledge, an entire generation of Boomers has been involved in this experiment for more than 50 years.
We needn't speculate. We have the evidence, and it is us.
6
@Occupy Government
And we have had thousands of stores selling to any adult who wants it in California for the last twenty years.
As I like to ask people, what major calamities are you expecting that haven't happened already?
2
Mr. Carey's conclusion needs an important amendment. The prevalence of schizophrenia is about 1% of the population. In first degree relatives (parents, siblings, children) it is about 10%. This low rate of incidence means that someone can carry the genetic risk for schizophrenia without having any relatives who manifest the illness. So, even if marijuana use only leads to psychosis in those at genetic risk, many people, especially young people who might not know much about their family history since mental illness is often hidden from the kids, will be at risk without knowing it. This problem is further exacerbated by the fact that there are over 100 genes for schizophrenia and which ones put people at greatest risk for marijuana-related psychosis are completely unknown. If we want to help prevent people from developing one of the worst illnesses known to humanity, we should not allow marijuana until after age 25.
7
@RSEK
I agree with your reasoning though I am not quite on board with the "not allow." More in favor of education and public health campaigns, as well as ongoing research.
But I am usually dismayed by the people who respond to these articles with, "It's just people with a genetic predisposition." Ummm …. so who cares what happens to these people? They're chopped liver?
The fact that just a few people will develop a terrible illness - and we have no way, often, of predicting which ones - means … why worry? Nope.
The interesting non-feature of the standard studies are the influence of medication in childhood. Naturally they play a signifiant role as does everyhing else, environment, family ties and all the other elements we are typically looking for in the highly praised normal behaviour as can be seen high and low.
1
I was first diagnosed with major mental illness in 1985. It runs in my family. I have been diagnosed with both Affect Disorders and Thought Disorders many, many, many times.
But then in my experience you can easily receive a different diagnosis from each psychiatrist you see. As the subjectivity of psychiatry far outways the objectivity.
Since 2011 I have been ingesting marijuana in bud form. I switched, due to lung issues, to edibles in the beginning of 2O18.
The only side-effects which I have experience over my years of intake are recently some lethargy which could also be the result of Depression over the end of my 1OO year old Mother's incarnation.
It's easy to fear-bate based on vague generalities.
I think that it would be much more helpful if we were to deal with true realities... rather than simply pushing vague generalities.
14
I would argue that anything that has mind, mood or our senses/perception altering properties has a potential to cause damage to a human being, especially to the very young who are still developing.
If you are lucky enough to be healthy and not required any medication to live a normal productive life, avoid drugs even OTC ones at all costs! And for many that would need to include alcohol.
10
As I understand the facts, both the rate of cannabis use and the potency of what's on the market has increased a lot since the 1950s, but there has been no corresponding increase in the rate of schizophrenia in that time. Moreover, the incidence rate of schizophrenia is roughly the same internationally while rates of cannabis consumption vary a lot from country to country. (Indeed, Canada has a slightly lower than average rate of schizophrenia at the same time as having a much higher than average rate of cannabis consumption.)
If cannabis caused schizophrenia, then shouldn't we be able to see that epidemiologically?
There may well be good reasons to study cannabis consumption in schizophrenics, but I'm pretty skeptical about the need to disprove a causative relation if there's no population-based evidence for it in the first place.
12
I work as an RN in psychiatry in dual diagnosis (co-morbid issues of substance abuse and mental illness). Most schizophrenics smoke cigarettes. Many schizophrenics smoke marijuana. These substances don't cause schizophrenia. Schizophrenia is primarily a hereditary disease. But many people who are mentally ill self-medicate. They have such intense internal lives that they want the effects of relaxation that marijuana gives them. In regard to cigarettes, John Lennon once said, "Smoking grounds me".
It's true that abusing any substance can exacerbate psychiatric symptoms, but my patients tell me every day how prescribed anti-psychotics make them feel heavy, sluggish, physically ill, and dead inside. Cigarettes and marijuana don't have the immediate and unpleasant side effects of psychiatric medications.
What I do see as a common occurrence, is that people who ingest psychedelics or hypnotics may have their first break, or initial experience of psychosis, following the ingestion of these drugs. But these people always have family members who have been diagnosed with schizophrenia or a related mental illness. The disease may have been dormant, but inevitable nonetheless.
Marijuana and nicotine don't cause schizophrenia. If they did, two thirds of Americans would be diagnosed as schizophrenic.
43
@AndreaNYC
Except that no one is claiming that these things ALONE cause schizophrenia. The question is whether they might play a contributing role.
3
@AndreaNYC
" The disease may have been dormant, but inevitable nonetheless."
Go back to college and major in neurobiology, neuropsychology, neurology, neurochemistry, disease.
You are SO OFF. There is not such thing as DORMANT schizophrenia. That disease/disorder is called manic depression in the UK.
Viral infections can be "dormant". Chemical imbalances ARE NOT DORMANT.
1
UNTRUE: Psychosis is a symptom: a temporary disorientation that resembles a waking dream, with odd, imagined sights and sounds, often accompanied by paranoia or an ominous sensation.
TRUE: Psychosis is less a symptom than a alternate reality, where there are some connections with your greatest fear, expressed in a way that are more threatening than they would be in a nightmare. Because you know you're awake and you know you are in deep danger. And you are - because you may be away forever.
5
@Frank Rier
I think the point was psychosis is not a disease or diagnosis, but is sometimes a symptom of one. There are many things that can cause a temporary psychosis, in fact such things happen to most people at some point in their life, at least very briefly. (Medications, chronic lack of sleep or extreme exhaustion, extreme stress or trauma, brain injuries, various other physical illnesses. And grief.) Most people on some occasion in their lives will experience moments where they - at least very briefly - were in some kind of altered state of consciousness and saw or heard things that weren't there.
4
I don't know about psychosis, but marijuana is contraindicated for panic disorder.
3
"...clinicians overwhelmingly endorse seeing many more adolescents with ‘paranoia’”
Of course they do. The world is nuts, and cannabis helps to identify that.
Joseph in Missoula
7
@Joseph
And, as this science reporter, just not as badly as Alex Berenson’s hair on fire op-ed, both missed, exactly NOBODY is advocating legalizing marijuana use for adolescents.
3
How is 80 years nearly a century??
4
@Devin
It’s proportional to telling a four-year-old child, “You’re nearly five.”
2
@Devin well, it's 4/5ths of one.
2
@Devin 80 cents is almost a dollar? No?
1
Those of us who have read David Hume will know that establishing a cause effect relationship is impossible. We can only use correlations.
There are just too many factors that could go into causing mental illness for anyone to make even a hint that marijuana might be a cause.
9
It seems like if this were true I would know more people with schizophrenia.
24
clearly a risk. not nm sure how much but clearly a risk. so let's legalize it anyway. what the heck
1
@bored critic
Getting into an automobile is “clearly a risk.” So is walking down a sidewalk alongside a city street.
Living on a farm, I operate machinery nearly every day that clearly presents a risk to me holding onto my limbs, my digits, my eyes. Chainsaw, tractor, log splitter, brush hog... I’m 66 years old and still have all my parts. Ten fingers. Ten toes.
Why do you want to make taking risks illegal?
They’re my fingers.
5
While the abuse of any psychedelic substance can produce psychosis, and “psychotic features,” there has never been any substantive evidence which supports the argument that cannabis use is associated with the emergence of schizophrenia, except in those cases where a genetic predisposition already existed.
‘Reefer Madness’ was government propaganda, and there is no reason for the continued prohibition of cannabis, except that legalization would go against the will of a number of incredibly powerful lobbying groups.
6
@ubique
Well, I'll say as I always say to these pronouncements "except in those cases where a genetic predisposition already existed" …
So who cares about those folks, eh? We can just toss away those folks with their unfortunate "genetic predisposition."
1
“Human beings possess a nearly infinite capacity to perceive patterns where none truly exist.”
—Some intelligent person or other
In a world where we are exposed to various stressors, food additives, illnesses, pollutants, emotionally charged situations, alcohol, prescription drugs, OTC drugs, good news, bad news, marijuana, unwanted email, elderly hypochondriacs and strange noises coming from both the waterheater and the rear wheel on the Toyota’s passenger side — it is amazing that people believe they understand the effect that each of these (and thousands of other) variables thown at us by modern life has on them.
There is safety in the illusion of knowing. Or maybe it’s serenity in the illusion of control.
“My nitwit boss is the reason I need some Tylenol. The fact that Janine’s kids never cover their mouths when they sneeze is the reason I have a cough and runny nose. And my anxiety level is higher than normal because I let Dave talk me into smoking pot on Friday evening.”
All of these statements may be true. None of them might be. Who knows?
Modern life is complex.
It defies simplistic cause and effect conclusions.
If you choose to add occasional marijuana use to the complexity of your existence, don’t expect that the effects it will have on your life will be perfectly clear.
7
Precisely and perfectly put to perfection.
2
Marijuana and its users are unfortunately in a protected class in the liberal mindset possibly because of the drug's close association with minorities and the disproportionate prosecution of minorities for its possession.
I object to marijuana on two grounds: a disgusting skunk like smell and the passive smoke I am exposed to. Other than that I have no issues. Yet I notice people are much more careful to say anything to a marijuana smoker (versus a regular smoker) because it has all this cultural baggage. Maybe there are other reasons but I don't know.
I am sure scientists will pin down its psychosis risk but it won't matter because marijuana is perceived as cool and woke to smoke. Unfortunately these days science has been dragged into culture wars. So it is possible for a person to simultaneously believe in climate change and the harmful effects of GMO foods although the scientific consensus is that climate change is real and GMO foods are perfectly safe.
6
@Pantagruel
No, the "scientific consensus" on GMO foods is NOT that they are perfectly safe.
AND, I've smoked cannabis on occasion since age 16, and am now in my 60's. I never did it to be "cool" or because "minorities" did it. (Worked in a profession for over 30 years and raised two kids).
Why do you occasionally take a drink? Well, I don't drink at all, but basically I occasionally consume cannabis for the same feeling that having a drink gives you.
1
@Pantagruel...
Well... at least we understand that Alcohol is so much safer.
And apparently it's much more Republican too.
Which I guess makes it superior?
1
Simply asking whether marijuana use causes schizophrenia, on its face, appears to be a premeditated effort to frighten people and certainly harkens back to the hysteria of reefer madness and "this is your brain on drugs." Difficult as it may be for some to concede, there are social and psychological benefits to drug use (alcohol, cigarettes, marijuana, etc.) I hope that the NIH study will be sufficiently balanced and unbiased to consider both sides of the coin. Even if risks can be documented, can they possibly be any worse than the harm done to so many by the war on drugs.
6
Im mystified. Im almost 40 and ive used marijuana/thc daily since i was 15...including today. Ive smoked hash, wax, and oil variants. Ive eaten it both in food and in precription pill form. Ive smoked joints, blunts, bongs, vapes .....all of it. Never once had any hallucinations or anything resembling a "pyschic episode". Not once. Ive known and still do know many people since high school that have done the same. Never once saw anybody have a "psychic episode". Not even once. Never in 25 years. And yet, inexplicably (to me at least) I notice when its represented in movies and television somebody simply smokes a joint and wildly hallucinates; they think they are flying or imagine cartoons ects.....Nonsense. This is juat not what marijuana does. It just doesnt. I really just dont understand where any of this nonsense comes from. Could it be, could it be at all possible that the people whom know the least about marijuana and thc are the people who dont actually use it. And that includes scientists, journalists, and law enforcement?....
Sidenote: I knew a girl in high school to whom somebody gave an aspirin and told her it was acid.....she swears she tripped. Claimed to see hallucinations (same ones commonly portryed in media), the whole nine......mass placebo effect perhaps?....like that War of The Worlds broadcast?.....I just dont get it.
9
@Jeremy Fouts:
good ol' placebo effect, very very powerful.
1
ABSOLUTELY.
1
You’re never going to convince drug addicts that their habit has any negative consequences. The correlation isn’t causation argument by marijuana proponents is pure baloney. Demonstrating scientific causation is often extremely difficult and requires decades of research. Marijuana advocates don’t even understand the difficulties in ascertaining disease mechanisms.
For complex diseases such as schizophrenia whose exact cause aren’t known, that will unlikely occur. Particularly, since researchers believe schizophrenia is induced by a combination of genetic and environmental triggers.
That’s why research showing correlations are often enough for prescription medicines to carry warnings and have their use curtailed. But prescription medicines undergo extensive pre-approval testing and post-marketing surveillance. They also have a uniform chemical formulation. Marijuana is a complex mix of psychoactive compounds that is hardly uniform.
Research shows some marijuana strains and compounds may have therapeutic benefits, but it’s farfetched to believe there are no risks. Even aspirin has major risks. Don’t trust the recreational marijuana industry. Whether it’s marijuana, meth, cocaine, or heroin, drug addicts need their high and cannot be reasoned with. They instead deflect and distract, such as pointing to the dangers of tobacco and alcohol, which they often also abuse.
7
@H
Did you read the abstract from the study quoted in the article? It's a pretty solid study. For your convenience, the link is below.
Joseph in Missoula
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24309013
5
Aspirin is far more dangerous than marijuana.
3
schizophrenia is a mental disorder that is genetic in origin. this appears in the fact that it is developmentally linked, has been associated with genetic markers, and runs in families with other mental disorders. settled science.
the genes, by themselves, respond to environmental factors in poorly understood ways, especially during childhood and adolescent development; but the genes, as the "cause", are fundamental.
many environmental factors, including weed, can affect mental development, but in nearly all cases (including in this report) the actual size or significance of the effect is hidden -- by handwaving ("greater chance"), statistics dependent on sample size ("highly significant"), opaque metrics such as logistic weights or adjusted odds ratios, and so on. the literature is both inconclusive, complex, and requires expertise to interpret.
most medical reports are explicit about risk: "for men, the incidence of cancer is 23 times higher in smokers than in non-smokers". that fact that you don't find similar, easily interpreted metrics in the marijuana literature is itself a caution.
"real world" studies (populations under state or national legalization) are already under way around the world; epidemiology will do the rest. so far: no measurable uptick in incidence of psychosis.
in lay terms, this is known as "grain of salt, people."
16
@drollere the study is under way and there should be more data to work with in a few years.
@GY:
and are there similar studies about use of alcohol, tobacco, overuse of "screens" by kids, etc? Just asking.
@J. Somers
Yes, there are countless studies on the bad effects of all of those things on kids.
I can achieve everything the THC users describe here using meditation techniques. No need to garble my synapses with drugs.
I can only advise in the strongest terms against using psychoactive drugs. I never used THC, but I did get high once simply by sharing the company of people who did. Second hand smoke, most likely, unless they had also mixed it into the food and not told me about it. The hallucinations were disconcerting, and although I remained clear enough to understand what was happening, they remain as real to me today as they were then almost 40 years ago.
It is an experience I do not care to repeat. The realization how easily we can lose control over our brains has been revealing. That is the reason why I am staunchly against marijuana legalization.
7
@Kara Ben Nemsi I doubt it's possible to get that extreme of a contact high. I accidentally ate a baked product with who knows how much THC in it and I did not have a good experience. I have used cannabis in the past and enjoyed a gentle experience. After eating the baked goods and before I realized what was actually happening, I thought I might be having a stroke or a heart attack. It was very frightening and I nearly had my husband take me to the ER before I put two and two together. I had both visual and auditory hallucinations, vertigo, and experienced the inability to keep my limbs still. Once I knew I wasn't dying it was tolerable but I would never want to experience that again. However, I suffer from a genetic disorder that leaves me with chronic pain and CBD has been such a relief for me. I do not think cannabis should be made into items that a child could get hold of and think of as a snack or piece of candy. An unexpected experience of getting extremely high, for a child, would be alarmingly traumatic.
11
The strength of the weed available "40 years ago" would have been insufficient to cause the reaction described, particularly on one exposure. In any case, THC does not produce any effect on anyone on the first exposure - a second experience is necessary. This comment is inaccurate, and, I suspect, motivated by a desire to promote fear/suspicion of marijuana and marijuana users. It should not be taken seriously.
10
@Kara Ben Nemsi there is little control or monitoring of the doses of THC in various products being circulated in the market, including those designed to appeal to young people (brownies, cookies etc). Don't mess with your brain, you can experience enjoyment, flow and healthier ways to feel good in your own head, through experiences of connection, physical activity, artistic pursuits and modes of expression, and mediation. No it's not a trip but your brain is built to feel good, not just to be anxious, stressed, pressured, and depressed.
3
I’ve known some incredibly talented people who were certified nuts. People who had health insurance and people who were wards of the court. People who could afford psychiatrists and people who thought they could treat themselves. People who imagined everyone was out to get them and people who alienated everyone who could help them.
I think most people who hear voices, suffer overwhelming anxiety or impenetrable depression find themselves at a noticeable impasse or extraordinary event in their late teens and early twenties, but may not be diagnosed until their forties. I’m pretty sure it’s genetic for most, while environmental causes usually include abuse.
It can take years to find the right mix of meds and therapy to allow mentally ill people to function in society.
I’ve known people who took a dozen meds to control their angst without ever smoking pot, and others, more crazy, who got by on one pill and tried to manage their anxiety with a little marijuana. “It calms me down,” they would tell me.
Others find calm in religion, swapping conversations with Michael Jackson for conversations with Jesus.
I’ve known thousands of people who have smoked pot daily for decades, leading successful, productive lives, with families, jobs and homes, and with no more incidence of mental illness or mortality than the general non-smoking population.
Alcohol and tobacco kill. Marijuana doesn’t. Some people find benefit. Some don’t.
14
I’m from the Bob Marley school, “smoke two joints in the morning, smoke two joints at night, smoke two in the afternoon makes me feel alright.” Etc.
16
It is so hard for me to know for certain whether my weed use is the cause or solution for my anxiety. I have been seeking out info on it's links to schizophrenia because I DO, with certain strands of weed and in certain situations, experience pretty severe paranoia. Specifically, I'll sometimes smoke at night while home trying to 'unwind' but find myself instead obsessing over some social gaffe or things I haven't done or the state of the world/my life. Additionally, I've had a growing sense of existential dread in the last 5-8 years when not high with a bit of semi-regular depression and anxiety. My confusion comes in for the following reason - The last 5-8 years of my life have been my late twenties/early thirties. Is my generalized doom simply related to getting older, having the intense responsibilities of raising a child, the state of the world, my seemingly unlimited access to information about how wrong everything is or can be, politics, social media, etc? Just because those somewhat persistent feelings are similar to those I sometimes feel when I get too high, doesn't mean that I'm having them more often because I sometimes get high. I have never experienced paranoia while high outdoors - in fact I have experienced incredible relaxation, connection to myself and nature, and often enlightenment and a sense of calm and understanding I didn't know I was missing. My solution is to use it rarely, therapeutically and with intent, usually for a long walk somewhere beautiful.
10
@Lauren...
Paranoia is a natural and normal human psycho-emotional experience.
It would be a mistake to confuse the mild paranoia which one can sometimes experience when using marijuana with actual Schizophrenia.
Schizophrenia, I speak from experience, is nothing like natural and normal paranoia. And if you had ever experienced it yourself... you would know what I mean.
3
Though we are finding therapeutic value in the use of cannabis for different conditions (pain, sleep, seizures, etc), we are still far from certain about everyday use, particularly in people who are at risk for developing psychiatric disorders.
We know that for a select group of people predisposed to psychotic disorders and schizophrenia, THC can be the straw that breaks the camel’s back in bringing on a psychotic episode. In clinical experience, it’s not uncommon to see young adults with their first psychotic break having had symptoms that coincide with their use of cannabis.
15
This has also been my experience as an inpatient psychiatrist. A Danish (I believe)prospective cohort study (published in 2018) lasting 20 years showed a strong association between substance induced psychosis related to cannabis and later development of schizophrenia. While I believe in decriminalization and more research, the notion that cannabis cannot harm is ludicrous.
7
At least for me, Weed has a tendency to narrow that wall between my conscious mind and subconscious mind. It's as if I can peek into stuff running in the background, which comes off a lot as an auditory hallucination. I don't get paranoid from it, but it's like a conversation is going on somewhere in the background that I can't quite make out. And, yes I also get the munchies.
I suspect for some people that wall gets broken and doesn't close back up once the high goes away. That would really suck. From my personal experience, I can certainly see weed causing permanent schizophrenia in some people.
7
Ok. So i am going crazy! Lite another one buddy
2
Smoking marijuana is really no big thing for anyone but non smokers. Some of them it drives so insane they'll never rest until they can prove they've been right about the devil weed all alone. Some do see the light. Former Speaker John Boehner was very anti, now he's a spokesman lobbyist for Big Pot. Just a guess, but these days Boehner is probably smoking fewer cigarettes, drinking less, and not tearing up so frequently for no apparent reason.
15
@Leigh
I think Boehner is interested in the green stuff, and I don't mean marijuana.
6
@Leigh I’ve smoked pot for over 40 years... no affect... but I do deal with two people that have very negative reactions; one who I would classsify as paranoid, and has bipolar schizoeffective disorder... which definitely gets worse with pot...this research isn’t about some false morality, it’s about realizing pot is unsafe for a segment of the population... those with the predisposition should know it, so at least they can make an informed choice...no one is taking pot away here.
3
Boehner is also a heavy investor in legal marijuana farming in Ohio as well as its spokesperson.
4
One could also hypothesize that the stigma around smoking pot makes many people paranoid. (regardless of family history, etc.)
Most of us have been trained to fear being discovered, arrested, losing jobs, being kicked out of school, etc. if we're "caught" smoking. Despite legalization, I suspect those fears are deep rooted & hard to ignore (esp when you're high)! That's not the pot... that's environmental.
8
I am of two minds about this.
Possibly three.
27
trigger knee jerk reactions from minds that won't change on either side of this question. Also a lot of hand waving and analogies by those with limited scientific literacy.
cannabinoids/schizophrenia link is stronger than autism/vaccine link, but fearful people still avoid vaccines
cannabinoids/schizophrenia link is weaker than smoking/cancer link, but self destructive people still smoke
we aren't very good at rationally evaluating risk
8
Mr. Carey seems to imply that schizophrenia is the primary medical concern of marijuana usage. Mr. Carey singles out psychosis as a possibility, and then dismisses all of the neurological effects of marijuana as possibilities that could equally happen with caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, etc. The primary medical concern I've encountered is a mental decline (both in intelligence and emotional intelligence.) Studies have repeatedly come to the conclusion that "Persistent cannabis users show neuropsychological decline from childhood to midlife." https://www.pnas.org/content/109/40/E2657
2
And yet I know and have known many, many productive, successful and impressive people who smoke ganja - some of those daily, some several times a day. By contrast, I know of no one and have heard of only a few - Hunter Thompson, Bukowski - who drink regularly, yet remain productive to any degree.
6
There are also a number of studies that show the opposite. Clearly more research is needed.
Anecdotally I can only say that I know a number of extremely focused, successful people who are brilliant and creative beyond belief, for whom marijuana has had no effect in slowing down their creativity, or cognitive facilities.
If anything, a couple of people I know who are regular marijuana users partake of it in order to slow down, because their brains are always moving at the speed of light. It seems to help them relax from their constant productivity and intensity.
1
The answer is a resounding NO. Marijuana might exasperate an underlying issue but to even think it would cause schizophrenia is absurd, and a huge waste of someone’s money.
10
Why did the kicker read "Here's what scientists know for sure..." when the conclusion was actually, not much, to be honest?
6
2019 version of “Reefer Madness”. Let adults decide if they want to use alcohol or cannabis in whatever way they want. Cannabis is safer then most legal prescription drugs.
8
@Sam Kanter. But, the point of this research is that adults should be able to make an informed choice. We still don’t know what the risks are. It’s harder for an immortal adolescent to make informed risk assessment, but we can try to make it possible.
4
Alcohol and prescription drugs come with labels and warnings. Have been studied intensively...for years. I would like to have as much info as possible if I'm smoking it. That doesn't mean don't legalize it..just study it too.
3
@wallace
Listen closely to those pervasive ads for prescription drugs.
I’ve got untreated moderate psoriasis. You can take Otezla to clear your skin, but it might kill you.
And those warnings are rushed through at the end, laughably. The FDA record on thoroughly vetting drugs has been dismal for several decades.
The FDA allowed Purdue Pharma to aggressively market oxycontin to doctors in the 1990s as being “addiction proof” due to its time release mechanism. That time release was defeated by grinding the tablets. Nobody thinks oxy isn’t addictive any more.
1
It this cannabis led research helps find a cause for schizophrenia, so much the better. 1 in 100, and that means perhaps 1 in 50 people whose have a first degree relative with schizophrenia. It is a devastating disease and an enormous social cost to us all. Whoever solves that riddle should get a Nobel.
4
Anecdotally, my cannabis use turned a borderline personality disorder of manic-depression in my teens into a form of bipolarism in my mid 40's ...
In my case, self-medicating with 1970's strength cannabis was only moderately harmful. When I began to use anew after 25 years, the newer strength (Kush) immediately overwhelmed my brain chemistry and I came very close to being involuntarily committed by my loved ones.
I tell this anecdotal tale here in the hopes that perhaps just one person can relate and can see the forest amidst their trees?
In my new 8 years sober, I am slowly emerging from the hallucinations, night terrors and disassociation that almost destroyed me. I think that as a society, we can no longer accept "at least it's less harmful than alcohol" as a endorsement that cannabis is harmless and (though fashionable) a choice without consequence?
19
@tillzen
I can relate. Weed takes me to the edge, especially the new strong stuff. I got so high once I literally couldn't stand up - couldn't move my muscles. I'm not anti-weed, but weed has knocked me down in ways that alcohol never could (even hard liquor). I can sure believe that its probably not "safe" for a lot of people. Just because I like it, doesn't mean its "safe."
6
How much do we know about the brain?
Very, very, very little. And by undertaking typical hypothesis-evidence science, we necessarily isolate parts of the brain-mystery, when clearly this is an organ that continually (often chaotically) changes its constituent parts (most obviously in late adolescence), in different time-frames, as a response to different stresses, in response to a wide array of chemical inputs, with the interplay of genetics.
There is no unified theory, for example, as to what constitutes "personality." We have no unified theory of dreams and their purpose. We know, vaguely, that there is a concentration of ganglia in the gut--a kind of auxilliary "brain." Why? We still have no agreement on what "consciousness" is and how it came to be...the list goes on, approaching infinity. The brain is a dance with many partners.
Against this deep mystery, how can we know that THC "creates" a condition that is admittedly "not a uniform disorder but an umbrella term"?
We know so little. We presume so much.
9
Cannabis and its association with precipitating mental illness is still being worked out.
There are however great amounts of data pointing to the harmful effects of marijuana use on the developing mind of the adolescent including the fact that 30% of those under 18 who use recreational marijuana develop a marijuana use disorder and there is a more than 6 fold increase in later opioid addiction in those who begin in adolescence as "wake and bake stoners" and then go on to chase that next high.
8
@thewiseking That's why marijuana should be legalized and regulated, to keep it away from teens. As Colorado and several other states have shown, teen use declines as the black market is pushed out. Prohibition provides children with 24/7 easy access. And no one looks for the "next high", that's the ridiculous "gateway" myth which has been debunked by numerous medical studies.
9
Chasing the ‘next high’ is a myth. You’re either going in search of, or not. Marijuana use is irrelevant.
3
Legal regulation does nothing to stop kids getting access to alcohol and tobacco, so why would cannabis be any different?
1
Back in the 60s, during an idle and irresponsible youth, I did a little bit too much of what I might now charitably describe as "independent field research." My finding, which I now release is that cannabis is one of the more benign drugs I "researched," more on a par caffeine than anything else, and certainly considerably less problematic than either nicotine or alcohol. I did love being addicted to nicotine and had some difficulty with it.
The allegedly more powerful strains is not so much a problem as a benefit because smoking excessive amounts tends to induce a panic reaction some refer to as "the fear." I had a few comically paranoid reactions that abated after a few hours. I found that a little of it just brightens that day a bit, and is, in my experience, is not harmful in the least.
8
While official research has been prevented by antediluvian federal policy, we have had decades of widespread use in the population. Any significant adverse effects would be quite evident by now. Every indication is that pot is far less dangerous than corn syrup.
19
How do we allow adults to make their own choices and at the same time protect them and society from their choices? As a college kid, I experimented with a variety of drugs. Ultimately, I decided that they were a waste of my valuable time. I only have so much time allotted to me and I want to be awake and aware. If you make other choices, you have that right. But, why should your choices impinge on me? We are not teaching our children responsibility. Nor are we modeling, same. Anybody got a solution?
2
The CB1 receptors mentioned in the article are present on literally every cell in the brain where they generally act to suppress excitation (and cognition). For people who use pot before they are 30 the effects could be devastating even when they are unrecognized - as regular use of the drug obliterates the cognitive potential and ability to grow new synapses (and ideas).
In a way this is the exact opposite of hallucinogenics which tend to unlock the cognitive (and emotional) potential (in non-psychotics).
4
@Kai
Never mind that research has shown that mj actually stimulates nerve cell growth. Hysteria without any foundation is fun.
5
@Kai the implied platitude here that new synapses = new ideas can't possibly be supported by any empirical evidence. Nor can the suggestion that smoking pot reduces the formation of new synapses. And the implication that one should abstain from pot (and presumably any other mind altering substance) before age 30? Completely baffling.
4
@Bill K
Evidence that CB1 receptors inhibit CNS activity is overwhelming, as is evidence that they regulate neuronal/glial and synaptic growth and neuronal differentiation; also, that loss of synapses correlates with aging and dementia.
As for smoking pot - i don;t know any high-functioning chronic pot smokers, do you? My view of other mind-altering subsatnces (eg ayahuasca) is the opposite... i see them as potentially beneficial.
A more balanced and less alarming view presented here compared to Mr. Berenson's "opinion" piece. Cannabis is a drug, and like all drugs, may detrimental side effects for some users. Legalization creates self-selecting users, and as for all drugs, users should be made aware of specific risks.
The answer to headline is....possibly for young people predisposed to schizophrenia symptoms, a small fraction of the population. By the same measure, people with a family history of heart disease might consider not eating saturated fat.
19
@GB Not a small fraction. I in 100 are diagnosed. That means its higher. It is enormous.
1
@GB - i concur that berenson's screed should not have passed editorial muster. the point to emphasize in your comment is that "psychosis" can be either an acute symptom or a chronic condition; the inference in loose talk is that ganja causes the chronic condition. there is (i believe) absolutely no evidence of ganja causing enduring schizophrenia in the literature. in contrast, the acute symptom can last for minutes or days, it can reappear or never recur; the label is categorical, so we have no idea of severity or extremity or duration. it's these kinds of complexities, part methodological, part linguistic, that blur conclusions.
numbers always help. the prevalence of schizophrenia in the USA is estimated to be 3.2 million (1% of total population). the prevalence among teens is 0.23% or (estimating) around 96,000. if we conjecture that marijuana increases risk by (say) 10%, that's ~10,000 additional cases. that's more than enough to tick up in medical trends.
but, again: schizophrenia is enduring, so you only confirm it because it is observed to be chronic. "schizophrenic symptoms" are transitory, much like alcohol intoxication. think of alcoholism and getting drunk at a party, and you understand the distinction necessary to pronounce conclusions about ganja risk.
2
I’m a 59 year old woman who has been smoking marijuana regularly, if not daily, since the 7th grade. ( I did not smoke while pregnant and breastfeeding). I graduated high school in the top 10% of my class of 900 students, and graduated from the University of Texas in 1981 with a 3.85 gpa and a BS in Advertising. I am a mother, wife, sister, friend, and successful businesswoman. I have been employed, working since I was 16.
As a medical marijuana card holder in my state, Colorado, I do agree with the author that the new cannabis is much stronger than the dirt weed I smoked as a kid. I have multiple friends and acquaintances who like me are long time users with no ill effect. But, most of us know someone who “can’t” smoke marijuana, meaning it makes them feel uncomfortable in some way. I also have several friends who will not smoke marijuana and drink at the same time. The combined effects are very unpleasant for them.
We do all agree however, that today’s stronger cannabis and marijuana usage in general is not for everyone, especially those under 21. Many people have negative effects with usage. Just like many people have negative effects when taking prescription drugs and using alcohol. Sugar has killed more people than all wars combined. Marijuana like most all substances can be of value to some, while being a detriment to others.
Why does the US government hold multiple patents on cannabis to treat medical conditions? Is this why research on cannabis is so limited?
32
Your unnecessarily defensive comment doesn't change the fact that cannabis pushes some people into psychosis.
6
@PeteH
What the article fails to mention is that the Federal Government here has characterized marijuana legally as a “schedule 1 narcotic,” making it a colleague of heroin, and making access to it for research purposes extremely difficult. Hence, almost all of the useful research has come from abroad, and the US scientific community is running years, even decades behind.
But even the radical nullifier of state laws Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III was foisting scare tactics. The issue is not availability; it is a cost-benefit analysis of decriminalization.
This article, and the underlying research, makes it clear that it is exceedingly difficult to prove a causation of psychosis precipitated by marijuana use. Correlation is not causation, friend.
4
@PeteH:
Schizophrenia is a genetic illness.
I doubt an herb which has been used for thousands of years is to blame for the giant upsurge in it....oh, wait, there IS no giant upsurge in schizophrenia.
1
I smoked cannabis for the first time at age fifteen. Outside of "Counter Culture" good hype, there was only 'Straight Culture" bad hype. There were a few lame attempts by visiting cops to warn against marijuana, but no useful, verifiable information or guidance.
Some kids I knew had what we called "freak outs", and if they were pot users, even we assumed that the two were connected. But we only hung out with other kids who got stoned and liked the same music, etc., so we had no real awareness of the vices or habits of the total population who were schizophrenic.
People were Schizophrenic without marijuana being involved long before the widespread availability/use that we now see. This alone should answer the headline question. Coincidence is not causation.
13
Cannabis has become politicized and this report tries hard to be "fair and balanced." It is bad, but not so bad, it may even be harmless. This skirts the issues of the need to add another mind altering drug to the public that seems already so addicted to drugs. The evidence of behavior induced by marijuana highs is somehow discarded because it is not (yet) replicated in laboratory conditions. "Pot heads" were not inventions of folklore, but real cases of marijuana users behaving disorderly, withdrawn and even suicidal. To allay depression they stepped on to heroin and amphetamines. "Crack" users committed crimes in the 70's and 80's clearly reflected in statistics in New York City. To write and publish articles like this by Carey, do more than inform, they may lead young people who seek fun to try the weed and discover it is "fun." Yes, it alters perception and enhances it, to a point. The challenges of life are awesome, people need clear heads to deal with them.
@Lara That's the point, no one is adding anything. Thankfully prohibition hasn't stopped one single person from smoking pot, it has been roundly ignored by society and rightfully so. We also know that in states with legal cannabis opioid use goes down, overdose deaths gk down, and in fact prescription drug use declines. So yes this is something society desperately needs. Not to mention all of the benefits that come with ending prohibition itself, and addressing the carnage it has caused in our communities. That alone is worth the change in policy.
5
@Lara
""Pot heads" were not inventions of folklore, but real cases of marijuana users behaving disorderly, withdrawn and even suicidal. "
They were largely the invention of Harry Anslinger and James C. Munch.
When marijuana was outlawed at the national level in 1937, only two "experts" testified. The representative of the AMA said there was no evidence that mj was a dangerous drug and no reason for the law. In response, the committee told him that, if he wasn't going to cooperate, he should leave.
The only other "expert" was Munch. His sole claim to fame was that he had injected mj directly into the brains of 300 dogs and 2 of them died. He said he didn't know what to conclude from this because he wasn't a dog psychologist.
Munch also testified in court, under oath, that mj could make your fangs grow six inches long and drip with blood and that it could turn you into a bat.
Munch was the only "expert" who thought mj should be illegal so he was appointed US Official Expert on mj, where he served and made policy for 25 years.
The reason for most of your beliefs is that the US Government has had an actively funded nutcase propaganda campaign for decades. These current excuses were invented because people stopped believing that marijuana will turn you into a bat.
There is even a Federal law forbidding Federal officials from saying anything positive about mj or legalization.
You are working primarily on myths that your tax dollars paid for.
5
A misleading and somewhat irresponsibly written article. Cannabis is not a drug, cannabis is a plant. Cannabis can be marijuana with the psychoactive compound THC. But hemp and hemp products with no psychoactive substances are also cannabis. Those hemp hearts in your granola - that's cannabis. Different types of cannabis plants have different levels of active compounds. Some cannabis is bred for THC levels, some for CBD levels, some for grain, some for fiber. Basically, when reading this, I believe you need to substitute marijuana or THC wherever the word cannabis is.
4
Science reporters must do better.
"Smoking was a predictor for later development of the disorder, ...in a... dose-response relationship.
Ok. What was the dose?! How rare is that level of smoking across the needed age range?! How does that usage compare to growing cannabis use? Was there a correlation with increased risk and family history?
That study was from "young adulthood to middle age", we are talking about childhood brain development during adolescence.
"Yet nicotine attracts nowhere near the concern that cannabis does"
Right. Maybe because children don't report personality disorders and mental suffering to their healthcare providers from cigarette smoking.
"Clinicians overwhelmingly endorse seeing many more adolescents with ‘paranoia’".
3
@Maria
Might be reading what you said wrong but still want to point out that schizophrenia and biopolar disorder are NOT personality disorders.
2
Yes indeed it’s another siege of reefer madness. Read the conclusion. Maybe if your family history includes a lot of psychosis, you shouldn’t do any kind of drugs or alcohol, and maybe include video games too!
Until scientists are allowed to do “real science” and get real answers to some of these questions about marijuana, anybody can say anything they want based on the flimsiest of evidence and mostly on anecdote.
16
Seems NYT displays an anti legalisation bias by repeatedly warning about "the dangers legal marijuana poses to our kids" by publishing a series of articles with fear mongering headlines, quoting inconclusive research whilst ignoring studies conducted proving the opposite to be true such as this one: https://psychcentral.com/news/2013/12/10/harvard-marijuana-doesnt-cause-schizophrenia/63148.html
Besides that, some studies show that people with latent schizophrenic and/or psychotic tendencies are more likely to consume THC because it makes them feel more together. Besides that, even though despite the often decried increased strength of marijuana products, statistically we should see an uptick in schizophrenia and psychosis, which we don't. Another fact this article ignores is the fact that prohibition never "saved" any kids. Where there is a will, there is a way and if anything, prohibition produces ersatz drugs such as Kathines containing powders, mixed with synthetic cannabinoids, aka "bathsalts" etc. Huffing household chemicals has also been a hobby of middle and high school kids. Esteemed news outlets such as the NYT would do well to expose the damage the failed "war on drugs" has done to the fabric of modern societies. It has been the foot in the door for an evolving policestate, the engine behind Narco states, the proliferation of military grade weaponry. It has destroyed more lives than drugs ever could, while draining resources from fixing the real problems.
21
On average, a person with a chronic mental illness will die 25 years earlier than expected for the rest of the population. Tobacco smoking is the major contributor to this premature mortality. This population consumes 44% of all tobacco cigarettes.
Source: http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.publhealth.012809.103701
The Cigarette smoking rate of the American population is approximately 23%, whereas rates of smoking in clinical and population studies of individuals with neuropsychiatric disorders are typically two- to four-fold higher.
Source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1201375/?tool=pmcentrez
10
@malcolm kyle Excellent points! Smoking is a major corollary contributing factor to mortality among AAA members, ex-cons, and veterans of mental illness, and is often promoted as a transitional crutch that is never discarded. Nicotine is an insidious and intricate drug that is entwined with the whole dopamine-brain regulatory dynamic.
9
Lack of emotional self regulation ins the pre-existing condition of addiction and drug use.
Lack of emotional self regulation is established before kindergarten.
Kids who can't self regulate reach for Juul, cigarettes, weed.
3
@Megan
It's heavily associated with anxiety related disorders like ADD, PTSD, etc. For example, female heroin addicts frequently report that they were sexually abused as children.
3
Thank you NYTImes.
After publishing Berenson's highly misleading piece, a piece like this that corrects the record was highly needed.
Still, one of the cardinal sins of data reporting is failing to cite proportionate risks, alongside informative comparisons of those proportionate risks with other activities that have similar proportionate risks. This article does that once, with regard to the correlation between pot use and psychoses, but then devolves into bad data reporting again, where increased risk of any sort, no matter how small or comparatively insignificant, is taken as the standard.
This is not to say that teenage marijuana use does not increase risk of psychoses or longer term schizophrenia to an unacceptable level. It is to say that we have not been given any of the needed proportions or a comparisons, without which we cannot come to any well-grounded conclusions.
Finally, the schizophrenia study that was cited did not clearly show causation, or that pot is a that-without-which-not cause, since a number of confounders were not addressed. A big one concerns whether pot use causes schizophrenia, or only triggers what is already immanent, a proclivity toward mental malfunction that is poised to be triggered by many things, only one of which is pot use, and likely to be triggered eventually anyway.
But this is a far cry better than the piece by Berenson, which presents as science what is not, and so, undermines science as much as pot users' beliefs.
4
As someone who does not use cannabis, I see several serious flaws in this article. First, to admit that no causation has been proven between cannabis use and schizophrenia or any other mental heath issue, but then end with suggesting there may be is dangerous leap. Second, years ago studies showed that schizophrenics self-medicate by smoking, the worse the symptoms, the more they smoke. Some of the chemicals in cigarette smoke apparently alleviate their symptoms not cause them. Third, while I am not a neuroscientist, I do know enough about receptors to understand that CB1 receprors being involved in synaptic pruning and engaging cannabis does not equal cannabis signals increased pruning. Many receptors bind more than one ligand with different signaling results.
It strikes me that the hysteria surrounding cannabis use, likely supported by the tobacco and alcohol industries, is leading people to misinterpret, or ignore altogether, scientifically established evidence and to forget that correlation is not causation.
25
Many legal substances are off-limits to minors, and out of an abundance of caution I feel cannabis should be as well.
8
It is important to remember that Cannabis stays in the system for several days to a week. Chronic, addictive cannabis use can lead to toxicity that mimics schizophrenia.
I have known a now perfectly sane addict who started walking across the SF Bay Bridge while high. He got sober and is now just fine.
Note that most people do not become addicted to cannabis just as most people don't become addicted to alcohol. For those folks it seems to be perfectly safe.
1
@Chris Martin
Reminds me of the story from Huckleberry Finn. Huck says that it is bad luck to look over your left shoulder at the full moon. Some people laugh at that but he knew a guy who looked over his left shoulder at the full moon and, sure enough, two years later he died. Proof enough.
The "toxicity" thing was funny, too.
16
This is such an important issue. Thank you.
One additional point that needs to be made is that many young people do not know if there is psychosis (schizophrenia; bipolar disorder; psychosis managed, masked or misdiagnosed as something else) on their family tree. Perhaps a relative was estranged and no one knows what happened to them. Perhaps no one wants to talk about it, especially with the younger generation, and so they don't. Perhaps the person was simply never diagnosed and treated.
31
@Madison Minions:
so no one should ever, ever use cannabis because an unknown estranged relative may have been psychotic?
Even though there is no proven or provable link between cannabis use and psychosis?
Right off the bat, in the first sentence, we see that 82 years is described as "nearly a century" ("Reefer Madness" 1936).
Further on we see: "Is it biologically plausible that cannabis could cause a psychotic disorder?
Yes. Brain scientists know very little about the underlying biology of psychotic conditions, other than that hundreds of common gene variants are likely involved. Schizophrenia, for instance, is not a uniform disorder but an umbrella term for an array of unexplained problems involving recurrent psychosis, and other common symptoms."
My reaction: "Say what?"
The next paragraph goes on to discuss how there is "circumstantial evidence". Since when is "circumstantial evidence" science?
14
@jeketels
"My reaction: "Say what?""
Well, they can't really say "makes your fangs grow six inches long and drip with blood" and "turns you into a bat" anymore, so we need "umbrella term".
All things considered, it is a huge improvement in reasoning from even 25 years ago.
4
As someone with schizoaffective disorder (who incidentally barely touched illegal drugs), I'd strongly recommend the precautionary principle on this one. Cannabis is pleasant, psychosis is temporarily unpleasant but if you develop schizophrenia the rest of your life will change completely.
As far as I can see the evidence suggests that occasional irregular use of cannabis is unlikely to increase risk even where there is a family link, but heavy use correlates with a significant increase in risk. No-one probably needs to decline the odd joint but daily use of strong cannabis products is probably not as harmless as the industry would like you to think.
69
@LH
Wouldn’t you give the same advice for excessive alcohol use? How about excessive use of unhealthy processed foods and additives?
11
I strongly agree with the tempered wisdom of this comment. In my experience of relatively mild psychosis, and in the experience of a friend who had a severe psychotic break, cannibus can exacerbate these conditions.
I also think that wholistic self care, that is, exercise, eating well enough, and maintaining good relationships with loved ones, can do a lot to offset the potential negative effects of any kind of substance.
6
@DJ
Yes of course. You're engaging in what-aboutism. Because one avoids excessive alcohol or unhealthy foods doesn't somehow mean one shouldn't avoid excessive marijuana use.
1
"The debate centers on the distinction between correlation and causation."
And there's the rub. Very often, those afflicted with conditions such as schizophrenia or other mental disorders attempt to cope with their emerging or existing symptoms by self-medicating with substances like marijuana. This can occur well before others in their life have recognized that there is a problem or grasped its severity. What they may first see is the substance use and the associated difficulties that come with such (which may be unrelated to the underlying disorder). As a result, it can appear as though the substance use was the precipitant for the ensuing descent into psychosis, paranoia, mood disturbance, erratic behavior, etc.
Differentiating the chicken from the egg, per se—particularly with disorders that tend to develop early in life—is no easy task, and it is not uncommon for misdiagnoses or misattributions to occur when treatment is sought. The situation is further complicated by the fact that the identified patient is not always the most reliable reporter of their symptom history, and involved third parties (such as family members and school professionals) can only share their subjective observations, which are frequently incomplete or inaccurate.
In short, clinicians and researchers face significant challenges in properly sorting out what is what, and great care must be taken to adhere to what is known versus what is perceived. The debate shall, no doubt, continue.
35
Much of the major work in the field has been conducted in the UK, not the US. Take a look by any of the recent work that has been done by Sir Robyn Murray and his group at the Institute of Psychiatry, London. His group makes it look fairly clear that the use of cannabis products with high THC (and low CBD) content is a likely risk factor for both a transient psychotic state (paranoia, hallucinations) or a more enduring form of psychosis which one would typically label schizophrenia.
4
@Otto
Yeah, that's pretty much what the article said. The issue is "correlation versus causation" for the "risk factor".
1
@Otto
The paucity of American research stems from the DEA characterizing Marijuana as a “schedule 1 narcotic,” alongside heroin, and that characterization includes the now risible claims of no medicinal value and highly addictive. There are severe restrictions attached to those who would conduct research on it.
2
Interest article - but honestly, cannabis use likely has much less of a role in produces psychotic episodes than simply lack of sleep, more likely to be caused by stressed or disturbance from alcohol.
While I understand the concern, let's not act like it is a direct correlation. Perhaps cannabis is disturbing sleep, which would have a larger impact.
17
@S — Having had extreme trouble sleeping since the mid nineties and having run through all the so called safe sleeping aids cannabis has been a life saver. Every morning I wake up rested and clear headed.
7
"My study clearly shows that cannabis does not cause schizophrenia by itself,” said Dr. DeLisi. “Rather, a genetic predisposition is necessary. "
My son had a break down with schizophrenia when 30. Interesting, years earlier a genetic report on methylation predicted this years earlier, and I am sad to say I thought it had to be in error. This risk was linked to a gene defect that affected his natural detoxification.
My son also has genetic defects that affected his stress level and had major gut problems (which I have read are typical for causing breakdowns as well.) He had a bad standard western diet, but never took any illegal drugs despite his high anxiety. The ANXIETY is why many kids smoke and take drugs. So that cause must be taken into account first.
We have found a cure for him, which it is based on the Walsh Foundation's research. Would the NY Times PLEASE give this foundation the attention it deserves?
They treat the CAUSE -- the genetic defects themselves -- and not the BANDAIDS of today's modern prescriptions which are worthless, except for tranquilizing/masking those symptoms in the short term!
40
I find much to consider in your comment, and have had similar experiences as my son gradually became schizoaffective in his early 20s. One medication was ok for a month or so, and I believe control of the symptoms came mostly from his own tenacity; though even that lasted short periods of time. The gene connection came to me indirectly, when in his early 30s cancer emerged which Memorial Kettering traced to a gene modified several years prior as psychosis was entering the picture. I never thought of the detoxification factor and appreciate greatly your disclosing it now. Unfortunately my son succumbed to the diseases but I remain greatly interested in the topic.
7
@Thoughtful
PLEASE tell me the cure !
How do I explore this ?
3
@Thoughtful Perhaps you could provide a link to the Walsh Foundation? Never heard of it and Google searches produce confusing results. Thank you.
7
My former husband is a schizophrenic that was undiagnosed until he was 30. We both used cannabis in our early to mid twenties. I think he was using the cannabis and nicotine for self medication.
Later in life, when he was no longer getting treatment for his schizophrenia, he turned to heroin for self medication.
I warned my boys to stay away from drugs because of the potential of inheriting their father's psychotic condition.
25
I can speak from experience having a son (Eagle Scout btw) who experimented with his young high school buddies (all from good homes with attentive, carving parents). He is now a daily user and I can see the impact. Anxiety levels now almost incapacitate him. I worry that he will not be a normal functioning adult. Therapy hasn’t worked and now that he is over 18 we have no control. To think our country will soon have legalized weed everywhere- if you are in your late 20s-early 30s I could care less what you put into your bodies. I shudder to think what legalization will do to our youth. We are beginning to see the consequences of the addictive effects of social media and electronic devices have on them. Now let’s add weed and parents will hear “ if it’s legal when I’m 21 wants wrong if I take it now” (just like alcohol).......
23
@TB
Legalization restricts the sale of marijuana to minors just as alcohol and cigarettes are not available. However, teens will always want to access substances that are prohibited.
Your son’s anxiety may well have been pre-existing as the number youth with anxiety disorders is rising. He may have turned to smoking pot as a form of relief. Others will use alcohol. Instead of blaming his “bad” habits try reaching out in an open discussion about ways that you can support him.
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@TB
Research done on medical marijuana users in California showed a common pattern that anxiety related disorders preceded all the drug use by most of the patients. There were common patterns of early childhood trauma of various types, including absent natural fathers, and diagnosis with things like ADD, ADHD, and PTSD. There is a reason that people start abusing drugs in the first place.
There have been thousands of stores openly selling marijuana in California for the last twenty years. There is no evidence that these kinds of problems have increased. In fact, use by teens dropped since the stores first started opening in the late 1990s.
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@TB. Or it may be that your son started smoking pot to alleviate anxiety that you just didn’t notice. You have no proof of which came first.
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"Yet nicotine attracts nowhere near the concern that cannabis does..."
Perhaps also because nicotine has the tobacco and vaping industries behind it buying influence and favorable research.
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@Pat
And the US Federal Government has had an active and expensive campaign to demonize marijuana since about 1930. The schizophrenia thing started with the statement in the late 1930s that marijuana will make your fangs grow six inches long and drip with blood and that it would turn you into a bat.
That was the sworn testimony of the US Official Expert on Marihuana. The reason it is "schizophrenia" is because people no longer believe "turns you into a bat."
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@Pat
We know alot about the dangers of nicotine. The actual dangers of marijuana are just now beginning to be discovered by legitimate science. The fact that people exaggerated the dangers of marijuana in the 1930's without evidence does not mean that the current science is backed by the same manipulative hysteria.
1
Another article on Cannabis that tells us nothing new. It does not cause schizophrenia. If you have a mental health disorder, or one runs in your family, then you should not consume. This goes for caffeine and alcohol, and in some cases; nicotine. Would say this is all rather common sense.
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@CurtisJames
"If you have a mental health disorder, or one runs in your family, then you should not consume."
Oh, ok- common sense! Actually many people don't know their familial health histories. Adding to that, among low-income and medically underserved communities, diagnosis is often lacking or incorrect. More people than you think are effected by this line of study and research in a growing cannabis market with extremely disparate potencies available to kids. This is not common sense at all unless you do not care about the at-risk kids in the candy shop.
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@CurtisJames 'common sense' does not work with teenagers determined to smoke to get high and appear 'cool.' As a high schooler decades ago, I personally witnessed at least 3 kids, all heavy users of marijuana, literally go crazy. Whether they developed schizophrenia I have no idea, but their personalities and mindset seemed permanently altered into a state of paranoia, fear, and hostility. This possibility to exacerbate underlying mental issues should not be dismissed.
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Researchers will continue with the scare tactics as long as it results in more grants.
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@jack
I found the statements by researchers to be rather measured, hardly fear-mongering. For years, research on the effects of cannabis has been hampered by ridiculous regulations. Now that marijuana use has been legalized, and presumably much more available, are you really suggesting that we NOT look at health impacts? I personally think it is grant money well spent.
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@jack
Under Federal policy for the last ten decades or so, research hasn't been allowed unless the purpose was scare tactics. There is a Federal law that prohibits Federal officials from saying anything that might support legalization.
4
And cult-like enthusiasm for pot will generate apologetics for any heinous discoveries that may come to light about it.
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