Dear NYT:
As an old fashioned liberal civil libertarian, I am disturbed by The Times' willingness to bless the most bellicose foreign policy goals, the politicization of our intel and law enforcement agencies and the abandonment of fundamental due process -- all to nail Donald Trump.
Blaming Trump for these deaths is perverse.
Democrats should cheer the President's decision to begin an orderly withdrawal, not only from Syria, but from Afghanistan and other quagmires that are not conducive to Democratic nation building. Trump is right -- we did destroy the caliphate, and the next stage is a bloody counterinsurgency. We need to get our troops out of harm's way, but still in theater, so they can be quickly deployed to strike the remnants of ISIS as needed.
These difficult foreign policy issues must be considered on the merits -- not merely on whether Trump can be blamed for taking a position mocked by the neocons. Sadly, it seems that The Times and its D allies will do or say almost anything to tear down this president.
It is unhealthy for The Times and other media to wage a permanent propaganda war against Trump -- that is what the next election is for.
7
I don’t totally understand how in every other war the NYT uses American casualties as a reason to withdraw, but now that it’s Trump who wants to withdraw they’re apparently huge fans of continuing to sustain casualties in the Middle East
6
As seen many times before, this tragedy is conveniently being used as a pretext for prolonged stay of the American troops in Syria. US troops shouldn't have been there in the first place, and subsequently there wouldn't be any casualties.
4
ISIS has killed more civilians in France than Americans in Syria. When do we invade?
6
“As we begin to bring our troops home, the American people can be assured, for the sake of our soldiers, their families and our nation, we will never allow the remnants of ISIS to re-establish their evil and murderous caliphate — not now, not ever.”
Pence is a shameless political hack. All hack, no...leader.
As to Sen. Paul...“I have never been prouder of the president, and I do not say that lightly”...Certainly, troop withdrawal is what one would expect from the Libertarian, but the degree that Paul has lately fallen in line to pretty much support all things trump wreaks of politics, and political obsequience that can mostly be read as an appeal to...future votes from the trump base as he postures for his own reelection.
Again, political hackery, not leadership.
Did Trump not blame Obama for publicly announcing America's military intentions? Trump spilled the beans (without even consulting "his" generals and administration) on the American withdrawal to make a short-lived political point--at a very high cost.
America's role in Syria remains important. Putin weaponized the Syrian rebel and refugee crisis in order to destabilize the European Community (successfully), to tip the outcome on Brexit (successfully), and now to create a rift with Turkey that is threatening NATO. Then there is Iran, and our ally Saudi Arabia... Isis is but one pawn in a complicated geo-political chess game.
Putin is a master chess player and is in it for the long term. Trump thinks only one short-sighted move ahead, and it is often unclear whether he even wants to win.
My condolences go to the families of the fallen American soldiers. They were fighting an uphill battle in Syria and did so with dwindling and wavering support from our commander-in-chief. Sad.
My sympathy goes out to the families of the four Americans senselessly killed by ISIS. What was VP Pence doing on TV saying ISIS is finished no worries. Pence, like the rest of Trump's administration, are grifters and amateurs hiding under the cloak of religion.
We must not leave the Kurds to fight alone!!! They have been with us since the start, do not have the weapons or capability to withstand Syria and Turkish (nor Iran/Russia) alone!!!
1
These four Americans died because they were in Syria at the location of a bombing. If they were not in Syria they would still be alive. What business do we have in Syria? What business did we have in Iraq? Why are we there? With all respect and seriousness, no one has ever honestly told the American people why we toppled Saddam. If we didn't like his sons (and they were a major problem), we should have assassinated them.
In the final analysis, our invasion of Iraq was a phenomenal mistake. Our attempts to foist our mindset on these people is utterly doomed to fail because they simply don't think, believe or behave as do we. We should be engaged in leaving this area to it's locals and nothing else. We should come home as soon as possible. These forever wars gain us nothing but the spilling of our blood and treasure. Leave Syria immediately and support the Kurds from the air.
1
Don’t cast blame at The Donald. He is to blame for nothing, none of this is about him ... ever. Someone else is always to blame for every mess he creates. How could he ever be wrong? Really? He’s a genius with a “very big brain”.
So, Trump brags that ISIS has been defeated and ISIS counters with an attack that kills several more Americans. After Bush and Trump, one has to wonder how many more dumb Republican presidents this country can survive.
Wasn't it Donald "Doofus" Trump who loudly bray- criticized, with his usual venal vigor, President Obama for telling the enemy we would withdraw on a certain date?
I thought the stable genius was smarter than that.
Hmmmmm...... Benghazi...GOP lost their minds over 4 deaths.
Trump? ("ISIS is destroyed....we can leave now" tweeted from the Executive Toilet at 3am) and Syria and ISIS?
Virtual crickets on FOX news and other outlets.
Why isn't NY Times and CNN playing this non-stop?!?!??!?
1
The jerk in the White House said we defeated ISIS.
Four Americans died overseas while Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State, and Republicans went bonkers about it.
Are these four Americans somehow less important?
4
@Lance Jencks...Were the four Americans killed in Benghazi - including the US Ambassador to Libya - less important to Democrats than the four US servicemen killed in Syria? Democrats didn't go bonkers about Benghazi, so why are they going bonkers now? Surely some Democratic House Committee can open an investigation into Syria-gate and Putin's role in the terrorist bombing.
1
Condolences to the families and gratitude for the profound commitment to public service despite grave danger, especially important to highlight at this moment.
on a more political note, guess four American casualties are only important if you can play gotcha with Hillary Clinton...
1
If America had withdrawn Troops as per Trump's schedule, we could have saved those lives. It was an attack to trap us down in the civil war happening in Syria. So, we should withdraw the troops without any delay. ISIS will never be eliminated because it is an ideology. There will be people fascinated with that ideology all over the place. We have to have contingency plans to deal with those barbarians, keeping troops in Syria for ever is not such a plan.
2
Twenty to thirty thousand ISIS remaining in eastern Syria concentrated in the area between Plamyra and Deir Az Zor and an unknown but likely substantial number of sleeper cells throughout the region to include Iraq and Afghanistan.
The numbers are rough estimates, but very likely to substantially underestimate the the ISIS presence and disposition. The notion that ISIS has been defeated is ludicrous, political fabrication and theater. Trump’s stock and trade.
There is no victory in the antiquated sense of conventional war to be had in the region. The American presence in Syria as a multiplier for indigenous forces to counter ISIS has been and remains token — essentially doomed to fail in the long run. The same is true for Afghanistan where the Taliban now tenaciously controls most of the country outside of the few major urban areas and Kabul.
Continuing American military efforts are no solution, but rather dogged repetition of a strategy that has repeatedly failed miserably in the region — and will continue to be so.
America is deep in domestic political crisis at home needs to focus on resolving its own substantial and dangerous dysfunction rather than engaging in hopeless interventions abroad and especially in the Middle East.
1
Mike Pence and Don Trump think that ISIS and the Califate are defeated. The also think that the world is still flat.
Unfortunately, their collective ignorance has caused the deaths of four service members, as Trump continues his gormless call for the removal of American troops from Syria.
1
Which is more imperative? That we outlast the ISIS terrorists in Syria, or we outlast Trump in the White House? Both affect the security of these United States and both may be being manipulated by our foreign foe - Russia. Might Trump still be doing Putin's bidding while he has time? Is it possible that he is continuing the shutdown for maximum effect to destabilize our economy further? Justice needs to be served. The day of reckoning has to come soon or outlasting the terrorists and/or Trump becomes much more difficult.
2
Can we begin the 17 congressional investigations into this tragedy? Hours after the ISIS bombing, Vice President Mike Pence proclaimed ISIS defeated and never even mentioned the 4 dead Americans. Republicans initiated their Benghazi witch hunt for far less. UN Ambassador Susan Rice speculated that an anti-Muslim video had prompted the Benghazi attack. This was seen as treason, ordered by Hillary Clinton, according to Darryl Issa and the GOP hypocrites in congress. At least Rice acknowledged the deaths. Now we have the second in command of our country oblivious to the dead on his watch, but not a whimper from partisan Republican conspirators in the looting and destruction of our Democracy. Let's purge the country of the GOP liars, beginning with Trump and Pence, before we all die of terrorist bombs or Russian poison.
2
Trump's reckless tweets are causing fatal risks to American troops, cadet bone spurs does not know more than any general as Mattis resignation clearly shows. Sen. Graham a Trump lackey even calls out Trump for his big mouth on military withdrawals . Trump is constantly looking for applause as if he was still a TV host and his malignant narcissism blocks any rational view of geo-political issues as he acts impulsively despite military and intel input. Trump is playing toy soldiers as he visits CIA HQ and our troops over seas and makes a campaign speech using those who risk their lives to protects us as his political props.
How many times now have Trump's ignorant words incited people to murder? Directly or indirectly, it makes no difference, the people are still just as dead. And it cannot be put down to a mistake or a simpleton's incompetence, because he always repeats his words, even expanding on them, and does so with a wealth of conflicting advice from vast experience at his fingertips. America elected the dribbling blowhard at the end of the bar. Perhaps America deserved it, but our allies certainly didn't.
When Dumpus Caesar declares victory, the gods themselves quake at his might. Veni vidi vici.
American involvement in the Syrian civil war has never been about deposing an "evil" dictator; it is a proxy war against Russia and its ally, Iran.
Nothing positive will come out of it, just more Syrian civilian suffering and American deaths. Pulling out of this losing proposition is the one thing I agree about with Trump.
If keeping Americans safe is a priority, then get them out of harm's way. The war against Assad will have no more good outcome than the war against Saddam did in Iraq. And that failed incursion gave rise to ISIS, a fact that is consistently ignored in the U.S.
A large part of leadership is admitting one's mistakes. The chicken hawks in Congress need to realize that invading a sovereign nation is not just a mistake, but a war crime. Pull out now.
11
The only thing worse than Trump's shoot from the hip pull out of our military in Syria, contrary to Mattis' advice, was Pence's statement that ISIS has been defeated, while condolences were being given for the four Americans just killed there, and four other Americans were also wounded.
Pence, who never served a day in any military uniform had spoken of his patriotism due to his father's service and his son's service apparently in the US.
That's great for Pence. However, that doesn't compensate for the families of those who just lost their lives and the others who were wounded.
Trump and Pence should contemplate their actions and statements, and seek guidance from our military like Gen. Mattis before they make military policy!
5
Didn't George W. say "Mission Accomplished" way too early? Obviously Trump doesn't have a grasp of our history, politics, or government with respect to this area, or any other. We know that. But those who do must be very vocal about the damage Trump is causing, in this area, and every other.
3
ISIS has a long history of making some spectacular attack when it is losing in order to divert the attention. They did the same when they lost Mosul and Kobane. To me this signals that ISIS has accepted that it will lose its remaining stronghold in South Syria and has started planning for what comes after that.
1
I am curious as to why the same level of outrage was not in place when Obama announced that he would follow through with the pullout from Iraq which was the root cause for ISIS to become the threat it is today? He had the opportunity to reverse what Bush started but did nothing. And Bush announced it right before he left office so it is not like it was well underway when the Obama administration came in.
2
Obama pulling out of Iraq was part of an agreement that Bush signed with the Iraqis. His order to draw down was planned, US allies were notified, it was coordinated and organized. It was not an order passed down by Tweet after a conversation with Erdogan.
Totally different. Iraq asked us to leave. They considered our job done. We would have been an occupying force, hiding behind high walls.
Because.........Trump.
The blind allegiance to political parties, and it doesn't matter if it is Republican or Democrat, really shows a lack of clear thinking. Right at the moment, the Hatred of Trump, has a fairly large percentage of Americans agreeing that the border needs to be open, that uncontrolled illegal immigration is a good thing, and if you don't agree, you are a racist. On the other side, the blind allegiance to the Republicans, has people disallowing the science that clearly shows that we are destroying the planet, and changing things for the worse, where 93% of scientists agree that we are causing a large degree of it, but apparently, they are all being paid off to say that. Because some idiot on the radio says so? Whatever happened to the thought process? Both sides?
Conventional logic taught us that military involvement in foreign lands increases resentment of the USA leading to adverse action against the US people. This example teaches that decades of badwill may be so great that our involvement or lack thereof is now irrelevant to hatred toward the USA. We are doomed if we do, doomed if we don’t. I for one welcome the idea of opening a channel of communication to enemies, so long as we hold steadfast in our commitment not to negotiate with terrorism.
2
This is what incompetence looks like. Bluster and bravado are no substitutes for experience and hard work. The real Benghazi.
8
Four Americans killed? It sounds like Benghazi. Perhaps the Dems in the house should find out who knew what when with regard to these men being in danger? Did Trumps claiming that ISIS was gone contribute to the deaths of these men?
9
Great take.
American civilians killed in America by ISIS? Not a problem at all. Diversity is our strength, and we need to keep importing more ISIS types and cancel the racist Muslim ban.
American soldiers killed in Syria by ISIS? Huge problem. It can only be solved by sending more troops over.
Again, great take. This is why I subscribe to the Times.
2
Trump: "ISIS is defeated."
ISIS: "Hold my beer."
6
The only that bothers me about the withdrawal of our troops is that it is not fast enough and Afghanistan should be next.
5
It actually validates Trump's policy. We should get out sooner, rather than later and save American lives.
8
The timing of this is very suspect. I don't think it was an ISIS attack at all.
4
The US will be sure not to obliterate ISIS or it would lose its excuse to be in Syria indefinitely.
In October 2016, the audio of a conversation between Secretary of State John Kerry and Syrian opposition leaders was leaked to the NYT, and the NYT reported on some of the conversation. In January 2017 Wikileaks posted the full audio, and clearly the NYT reporting left out the bit where Kerry acknowledged that the U.S. was WATCHING ISIS growing in strength, thinking that ISIS would threaten Assad to the point of negotiating with the U.S.
The NYT did not report Kerry viewing ISIS as a useful tool.
A 2012 Defense Intelligence Agency document, published by Judicial Watch, said that the West will facilitate the rise of the Islamic State “in order to isolate the Syrian regime”. Since 2001 the US has added some six trillion to the debt for the purpose of wrecking whole countries,while being responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands, creating many more terrorists and millions of refugees now destabilizing Europe, and making the US less safe and the world more unstable.
That Trump wants to bring the troops home makes him look sane.
The Establishment, its Media and the Military Industrial Complex intend to continue the insanity of US military action in Syria and where ever else the US can metastasize ISIS as an excuse.
4
Is Trump's injudicious tweet about troop withdrawal from Syria directly responsible for these deaths?
3
I think it may have been. As a former explosives expert, most IED’s were actually initiated by errant tweets.
A lot of people don’t understand the connection between physical explosions and social media posts, but they’re not as smart as you, or as experienced as I am when it comes to the tweet—->explosion connection.
In short, you’re absolutely right. Trump’s statements directly killed these soldiers. The only logical response is to impeach him now, before he kills more troops!
3
Republicans don't care about any of this. If they did, they would get rid of Trump. It's costing people their lives. Who's to say this attack in Syria wasn't related to Trump's announcement to pull-out troops?
I would say Trump's Benghazi, but that's being too kind. Unfit for office.
6
@cyclist Yeah, Trump is always guilty no matter what the reason. I would think that these deaths are more attributable to the fact that these troops are in a very hostile environment where no side can be trusted and if you cared about them you wouldn't send them there in the first place.
6
Trump and Pence; "ISIS is finished; gone; not a thing". ISIS; "We are here to stay". We can not believe ANYTHING from the Trump Administration. Ray Sipe
1
Isn't hind sight wonderful. Unfortunately we have a "leader" who refuses to listen and cannot understand consequences because he won't read or listen. We need to get rid of this mad man before we loose a whole lot more good men.
3
"So I have been clear for a long time that we should not have gone in. But I have been just as clear in saying what a catastrophic mistake Hillary Clinton and President Obama made with the reckless way in which they pulled out.
"After we had made those hard-fought sacrifices and gains, we should never have made such a sudden withdrawal – on a timetable advertised to our enemies. Al Qaeda in Iraq had been decimated, and Obama and Clinton gave it new life and allowed it to spread across the world."
Donald J Trump, 15 October 2016
Pathetic.
1
One more thing....do we remember Benghazi?! And the head-explosions by the Republicans?!!!!
Bet you, no investigation will ensue! Hypocrites!
5
Trump decides to pull out of Syria. ISIS kills 4 Americans. Pullout cancelled. Why does ISIS want the US to stay? Or whom are they working for? Conspiracy theory? It’s just suspicious- the timing.
2
@Mr. Little Don't forget that arms from Libya were found with ISIS after Khaddafi's death. I wonder how that happened? Maybe HRC could explain it since she engineered that fiasco.
3
@Abbott Hall
Conservative propaganda claims another hapless victim. More lies from the right. Trump owns it. The GOP owns him. The blood's on his hands, not Hillary's.
1
First let me express my sorrow for the loss of theses young Americans. Their lives are not only precious to their loved ones but also to this country that sends them to dangerous places around the globe to fight for our ideals. They are worthy of our admiration and respect, even when the politicians who send them on these tours of duty are not. But I have to say I am troubled that the patrols were observed by local people to have stopped regularly at the same restaurant to eat. It seems like that is a security risk and I wonder why their commander allowed that to happen. Can anyone answer that question?
@Mary Beth
Please, how is attempted regime change in Syria to install a puppet government approved of by Saudi Arabia and Israel. "fighting for our ideals"?
For valuing such US military adventures you have condemned the young generation to a less safe and more unstable world, bought with a gigantic debt burden they will have to bear.
1
First, sincere sympathy to the families of the four Americans killed by ISIS. May your loved one rest in peace.
We must leave Afghanistan, as soon as possible! There's no hope of changing that country. We've wasted American lives and hard earned taxpayer money on a .....losing war! End it!
Syria, is a bit more complicated considering that Putin cannot be trusted. I want to know what the Joint Chiefs, American Intelligence and the Pentagon says about Donald's withdrawal from Syria. I don't trust Putin's puppet!
15
@Mari
Assad was elected by Syrians.
Now you can deride Syrian democracy/elections...
You can also deride US democracy/election, they are just the best money can buy.
Back to Syria, Assad invited Syria's longtime ally, Russia, to help him defend Syria against the US attempt to install its puppet government in Syria.
What is your problem with that?
Do you support the US overthrowing governments to install its puppets. In Syria, the US wanted to install a government approved of by Saudi Arabia and Israel.
With such nobility of purpose, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, refused to allow a UN brokered peace agreement to proceed in 2012, because it left Assad in power. Shortly after that, there was a huge spike of some six million refugees to Europe.
This was likely a tipping point for the Brexit vote, and has permanently changed Europe.
The US Syria regime change has been unmitigated stupidity.
Congratulations Trump... if you really get all US military, including mercenaries [contractors] out of Syria.
3
@Mari
Perhaps you should read "The Great Game" to better understand the region.
"Leaving" Afghanistan in the hands of our enemies is a fool's bargain, sure to destabilize the region further.
2
Rather than delay the withdrawal of troops, it should hasten their departure. It is high time we are out of the Middle East and Afghanistan.
5
If the announced withdrawal of our troops from Syria had been carried out as quickly as the President said it would, those soldiers, the contractors, the Syrian civilians and the local fighters would be alive today. That they are not is the consequence of those in Washington, including the one who quit, who have not had enough yet of great power games in the Middle East, and slowed the President down. They are the ones who have the blood shed in this attack on their hands; they should follow through on his orders before any more of it flows.
9
Places like Kenya and Syria and Afghanistan are now in a perpetual state of unrest. Groups there profit from random, terroristic violence. Whether US ground troops are there or not, the violence will not end until local forces decide to stop. Bring our men and women home from these battlefields. 26 years of war and their and their families’ sacrifices are enough.
6
I am NOT for the pull out. I absolutely feel Putin's touch on this. I don't trust anything Trump does.
But...
Don't let an article like this push you into action or ideology you wouldn't already have. I cringe whenever I see these articles because the words "four dead Americans", whether by designed or not, can generally stoke and incite fear, division and jingoism.
Don't let emotions dictate your policy.
Keeping thousands of US troops in Syria until we ferret out every ISIS sympathizer hiding in a basement village somewhere working on a bomb is a fool’s errand. We can’t find and rid ourselves of every violent gang-member in US cities.... how will we find every ISIS operative hidden in cities and villages across Syria? A few advisors and human intelligence collection coordinators may be warranted.
What is the strategic necessity of occupying Syria? How many aircraft carriers and strategic bombers does ISIS have? We give somewhere between $750 to $800 billion to the Pentagon, Homeland Security other agencies every year and we still have occupy foreign soil. That amount of money should have allowed us to develop protection measures without thousands of troops on the ground. If our rationale is to keep thousands of troops in Syria to keep them from coming here then we need thousands of troops on the ground in a dozen countries in the Middle East, Southwest Asia and Africa.
Leave the occupation to Russia, Syria, Iraq and Turkey. Let’s find other ways. Strengthen intelligence gathering, conduct tactical strikes, use cyber weapons, strengthen our tracking of movement across boundaries. Do better at monitoring airports abroad and arrivals at home. Find other innovative ways to fight groups like ISIS and al Qaeda other than thousands of troops on the ground.
4
Of course, our imbecile President has no comment on the four Americans who were just slaughtered by the "Defeated" Isis!
Military Command Rule #1:
You never, ever publicly announce any military action
without a plan (especially a troop withdrawal) that will put our existing soldiers in harm's way.
President Bone Spurs would know this if he had served and not dodged the draft with some lame story about bone spurs on either his right or left leg (they were so bad, he can't remember which?).
5
I said it yesterday and I'll say it again.
There is a way to show our immediate contempt for The Con Don's antics.
The third annual Women's March is this Saturday, January 19, and there are marches planned across America and around the world for people to join together and show The Con Don and his Robber Baron brethren what WE THE PEOPLE think. Any person may join the march - it's not for women only. Every government worker, educator and average American should take part with a sign that promotes the one thing they value most about living in OUR United States of America.
The link is below. Scroll to the place on the page for "Sister Marches" and find a march near you.
Please, Good People, let's show The Con Don that we hold him in contempt and support Speaker Pelosi and OUR democratic U.S. House/Congress.
NOW IS THE TIME FOR ALL GOOD PEOPLE TO COME TO THE AID OF OUR COUNTRY!
http://womensmarch.org
3
There is a new article in today's NY Times that says The Con Don is holding a "special meeting" at the Pentagon today. "Mr. Trump is expected to announce the administration’s plans to expand American missile defenses, with new investments in missile-defense technologies."
The Con Don, Putin, Netanyahu, Erdogan, Duerte, Assad and their International Mafia 0.01% Robber Baron/Radical religion brethren want WW3.
Take a sign to the march that says "NO WW3".
2
Spend a year in Vietnam working around villages along the Cambodian Border as an Infantry Platoon Leader. I never ate the local food in any restaurant and never bought beverages from road side stands. I encouraged my brave men to do the same.
2
@James L. Fogarty
What does that have to do with trump declaring "mission accomplished" in Syria?
NOTHING.
2
The people of Kentucky should be thoroughly embarrassed by the Paul dynasty.
That said, the loss of American lives is the price for having a buffoon in the White House. We should count ourselves lucky that the death toll was so small.
I extend my sympathies to the friends and relatives of the dead. I did not vote for Trump, but I am saddened none-the-less.
7
The U.S. needs to get out of the Middle East and Afghanistan. We didn't have much choice about going into Afghanistan, as the people who attacked us on 9/11 were based there, and the Taliban supported them and gave them safe haven. I think Al Qaeda is gone from Afghanistan now, and staying there to engage in a long battle with the Taliban is only going to lead to more young men losing their lives on all sides of the conflict.
Ditto for Syria. Most of the land that ISIS occupied has now been liberated. The local people need to govern and maintain security in their own lands. The U.S. can't be the police force of the world.
4
@dgbu World power means engagement, not the insularity such as Trump stands for.
3
Yes, but logical engagement. Not being bogged down in conflicts in far away places with no end in sight.
I grew up on military bases, and saw lots of my friends' fathers go off to Vietnam and never come home.
3
@dgbu
"growing up on military bases" is not the same as SERVING or being the Commander In Chief....who gives away the store (after telegraphing our intentions to the enemy).
1
Mission Accomplished Redux.
We all need to know why this happened when Trump/Pence have clearly stated ISIS has been defeated.
We can at least rest assured there will be at least as many investigations into these four deaths as there were investigations into the four deaths at Ben Ghazi.
8
I have a medal for having participated in the "Global War On Terror." I don't think about it often and I guess that's partly because it's almost as ridiculous as this "war on Christmas" I keep hearing about. The goal of terrorism is to provoke war and my GWOT award is proof, worn by many here, that the terrorists won.
Maybe we can beat terrorism but we probably have to wait until those who claim that this is a Christian nation learn to turn the other cheek and treat our foes with the compassion and love preached by Christ. Maybe some day, when we're finally bored with debating the ethnicity of Santa Claus and what symbols should adorn our single-use coffee cups, we can try a Christian solution.
4
“Thanks to the courage of our armed forces, we have crushed the ISIS caliphate and devastated its capabilities,” Mr. Pence said. “As we begin to bring our troops home, the American people can be assured, for the sake of our soldiers, their families and our nation, we will never allow the remnants of ISIS to re-establish their evil and murderous caliphate — not now, not ever.”
How do the families of the four dead Americans and 15 other dead feel about that ridiculous statement by Pence? And how about the 2,000 troops remaining and their families? At least get the messages right while you and your boss continue to bring shame upon our country and increase the danger faced by our servicepeople and partners. Pathetic losers, to use just a couple of Individual 1's favorites.
3
Will he go at midnight to Andrews and stand with the families as their coffins come home? Maybe our 4 past presidents should take over the White House and bring honor back
5
Four dead? All the more reason to criticize Trump’s plan to withdraw troops from Syria. If they instead stay, more Americans can be killed.
2
The US was never invited to Syria, There was never a Kurdish resistance to President Asad.. who never attacked the Kurds like Saddam or Turkey did. The "kurdish resistance" is an American invention of paid mercenaries from Turkey and Iraq. The U.S (and Israeli airstrikes) does more harm than good in eliminating ISIS. President Asad , The Syrian People with Russian and Iranian assistance has done a better job than the U.S ever will. ISIS knows the US involvement is its best chance to create havoc like in Iraq...
6
Trump announces almost immediate withdrawal. Pompeo says, in effect, not so fast. ISIS responds by reminding us it can't be fast enough.
1
ISIS knows very well how western democracies function (or dysfunction), how they over react or do not react at all.Killing Americans just after the President announces troops withdrawal is undoubtedly a strategy. The group could now take profit of the government shutdown in the US to try something else, like terrorist attacks on the American ground. They could also consider the European crisis, especially in France, as an opportunity to prove what every sane analyst hammers: they have lost nothing but Syrian ground , and will keep being remembered and accounted for as long as conditions will be met, which could be a pretty long period of time.
2
Trump is guilty for the American loss of life. His lies & bluster brought on this attack by Isis.ISIS is far from defeated.Someday
the truth of the removal of our Troops from Syria, will find that Trump was following Putin’s orders, & it was part of the collusion between Trump & Putin.
4
How is this possible? Our Commander in Chief, the head of our military, declared that ISIS had been defeated.
5
Putin, through Erdogan, told Trump to withdraw the troops. Trump can't disobey his boss.
4
I cannot fathom being the mother, wife, father, children, or any love ones of the victims of this attack, knowing that our Vice President made an official statement within hours AFTERWARDS declaring the defeat of ISIS. My heart goes out to them.
6
This happened but Trump must think it "fake" since he declared ISIS defeated. ISIS must not read the press statements from Trump.
3
There is an eerie silence from the crowd that was clamoring for answers about the Benghazi tragedy. Ever since the current president has taken office, the GOP has opted to look the other way when our service men and women suffer casualties abroad. I find this to be troubling.
9
I do not exactly understand what you want to hear from the Benghazi' crowd. After all, in both cases Americans were killed during illegal invasion of other countries, and to all fairness, in both cases it was done by Obama Administration, not by Trump. If Trump is guilty of the anything in this case, it is not ordering the withdrawal earlier, before the tragedy occured
2
Trump undermined the US abroad and now he’s doing it at home. He’s spending billions on non- defensible satellites and deployed troops at the border. He’s owned an attempted government shakedown (not a shutdown) supposedly to build a “Wall” - he claims paid for by Mexicans and by association- Canadians (the super new trade deal). President Obama was criticized for limiting US involvement in Syria. Timid Trump pulls out over a phone call. Replace Great with Grovel.
3
Isis has attacked in Belgium and France and many other countries, when do we deploy troops their? President Obama reluctantly invaded Syria to break the humanitarian crisis of Isis, that job is done. Bring the Troops home.
3
If Trump has really listened to his military advisers, he would have been told that it is premature to say that ISIS has been defeated. He has no idea that defeating an insurgent group that uses guerrilla tactics and terrorism is more difficult than beating a group that is trying to actually hold ground.
ISIS may have lost control over a territory roughly the size of Maine and its appeal as a lodestar for extremists around the world, but the group can still live on as an insurgency and command sleeper cells.
Its self-proclaimed caliph, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is presumed to be alive and an estimated 20,000 to 30,000 are still lurking around in Iraq and Syria, waiting for their opportunity to strike a comeback.
4
it is bad enough that Don Trump does not listen to his military advisors about ISIS, but when Mike Pence says that ISIS and the Caliphate are defeated, one begins to understand how gormless both of these men are to the continued ISIS threat remind in Syria.
5
So if Hillary was responsible for the deaths of Americans at Benghazi why isn't Trump responsible for these fatalities? After all it was unwise, if not irresponsible, to announce ISIS was defeated. It was in this sense a dare. I'm not against bringing American troops home, but it could've been done without boasting. And wasn't it Trump who criticized Obama for telegraphing military operations to the enemy!
Recently the President was asked about Truman's "the buck stops here" statement. His response: The buck stops with everyone. Once again he's being dishonest: what he really meant to say was: The buck stops with everyone- but Me!
8
That is very easy, because Hillary was the one who orchestrated American invasion of Libya that cost American lives. Trump didn't invade Syria, he is trying to pull out the American troops to keep them save.
1
Words have consequences, Mr.Trump! Isis has just made you eat your ill advised declaration that they were defeated! When American troops are serving in dangerous areas -the Commander in Chief does not compound the danger they face.
8
Mike Pence says Isis is defeated. I think Mike Pence either needs rebooting or needs a software upgrade.
12
There may be facts in this article but there is also propaganda. According to Wikipedia the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights has been reported to be pro-rebel and anti Syrian government. If the goal is to eliminate ISIS in Syria why doesn't the Times ask for the Syrian government views and comments? I've read from other sources that we are not wanted there by the Syrian government but Israel wants us there to take on Iran. If the people of the US had a direct vote on whether or not to send troops to the Middle East I guarantee we wouldn't be there.
6
Mr. Trump threatened to hit the Islamic State hard if the group lashed out. Well they did, and blew up 4 Americans in the process. Maybe they didn't read his Twitter message.
4
This tragedy is what you tend to get when you have incompetent American leaders like the extreme war mongers on the left and right ie Bush 2 and Sen Libberman, war mongers who never met a war they did not like or the other extreme, incompetent or radical isolationists like Trump and Sen Paul.
Lean from Lincoln. Only go to war when somebody attacks you or are about to attack you.
We could have avoided the carnage of the Mexican, Spanish American War, WW1, Vietnam, Iraq 2 and other wars if we did that.
ISIS attacked and killed Americans. We should always have a small force in Syria to make sure they don't re emerge like they did with these killings of Americans.
2
How can we so quickly have disregarded the lessons from Afghanistan?! We have had an American military presence there for 17 years with lots of bloodshed but little progress to show for it. There are still suicide bomb attacks there and the Taliban is still running rampant in parts of the country. Same thing will happen in Syria. A few thousands American soldiers there will not change the long term problems in Syria. These ISIS terrorists live there. They will wait us out. We cannot defeat an enemy that lives among the population. Will it take 17 years of drained American money and lives in Syria only to find this out yet again?
4
The whole world seems to be aware of just how vulnerable the United States is under the helm of this incompetent president.
When are we going to feel normal again? There is an aura of danger and insecurity that permeates this country and the rest of the world is watching and waiting for what's next.
2
ISIS, Russians, those from Central America.
Time for Trump to focus on the first two and not the latter. Time also to bring back James Mattis - and maybe H. R. McMaster and John Kelly.
1
Lies made, lies kept. I think this is how Trump's legacy will be remembered after 2020.
3
fleeing instead of withdrawing... Fear is indeed Trump's main drive.
Fleeing Syria would hand isis and a big win. Britain lacks leadership but not as much as the US...
1
Just to be clear, ISIS reacted to Trump's declaration that they were defeated. They just made a statement and four soldiers just got blown up and their blood is on Trump's hands.
10
“Thanks to the courage of our armed forces, we have crushed the ISIS caliphate and devastated its capabilities,” Mr. Pence said. Saying this a few hours after an ISIS bomb killed four Americans shows that Mr. Pence is completely delusional or mendacious. He will say anything at any time to support Trump's goals.
16
Knowing the history of our war in Iraq WHY would you announce you were withdrawing troops? Should we just get rid of all the experience military generals unless they can agree with trump?
"Now is the time when ALL good men shoiuld come to the aid of thier country." We have a person in the White House carring out the orders of Putin. Make a list of the people around him who are encouraging him, charge them all with Treason.
8
Neo-Cons like Bolton and Pompeo allied with Israel's militant Likud Bloc clearly want an even wider war with Iran using Syria as a base. They also want to use the Kurdish PKK/SDF militants long considered to be terrorists for their car-bombings in Turkey as a mercenary force. Trump is right to finally end this Neo-Con nightmare and treason.
7
After which Pence went on TV to say the U.S. has defeated ISIS!
This ISIS attack might be a last ditch attempt to keep the U.S. in the quagmire but Pence parroting Trump is worse than Bush's "mission accomplished."
Sure, the U.S. should get out of the snake nest but not because of Trump's shiny object. Every decision he has been making since taking over is either for personal enrichment of his clique or to deflect his real tie to Russia. Getting out of the Middle East in haste for the wrong reason can only cause more troubles ahead
7
Just as North Korea is "no longer a nuclear threat", ISIS has been defeated.
Have no fear, Trump and Pence are here!
11
I ought to have mentioned the greatest stain on that otherwise pretty good record. It was the Iraq war. If there was any justice in the world the punishment for that deadly mess would have found Bush, Cheney, and Wolfowitz inside jail cells. But it wasn't the fault of ordinary credulous Americans.
6
Why nobody considers this attack may be initiated by the Kurdish guerrillas who will benefit maximum from this bombing because they want the US to stay. US is cooperating with one terrorist group YPG/PKK to fight another terrorist group ISIS which they have created in the first place. In this process US troops have consistently killed murdered thousands of innocent civilians including children. They are in Syria illegally and in violation of international law. it is time they should get out as quick as possible and leave the land to its people
4
The US has defeated ISIS, remember? - Trump said so.
3
The GOP needs to WAKE UP. I am incredulous. Who does it benefit to withdraw from Syria before the Mueller report is released? Putin. I’m disgusted.
6
I'd just point out that if those troops had already been withdrawn they wouldn't have been killed. I don't see how this changes anything.
6
The Brits are realizing they have been barking up the wrong tree. They are realizing that their dissatisfaction with their role in the world which precipitated the Brexit referendum will continue whether they leave or remain in the EU, and that leaving may just increase their internal divisions and worsen their economic situation. So now, half way through the process, they are paralysed, unable to move forward or go back, unable to stay where they are. Theresa May reflects the British population, seeking a solution which doesn't exist, killing time while they wallow in their indecision. Europe is right to refuse to negotiate further.
2
45th just carrying out Putin's order. That is the reason person with questionable background should not come to public platform.
2
Dec. 19, 2018 Trump announces mission accomplished, abrupt pull-out from Syria.
Jan. 16, 2019 four Americans killed in a Syria suicide bombing.
What more is there to say other than how many people will Trump be allowed to get killed before he is removed from office.
3
We should never have put those soldiers in harm’s way. They were deployed there in violation of the 1973 War Powers Act. They were just pawns in our failed war on terror.
4
@George Hoffman America has failed in every actual war since World War 2. It is only the cold War which they won politically... Though did they even win there with the trump authoritarian puppet in power now. The worst thing for America is having these bafoon leaders claiming 'mission accomplished' and 'isis is defeated'... At that moment the rest of the world laughs at americas failed international policies.
1
@Kris
Failure depends on your perspective.
We succeeded in wasting trillions of dollars that went into somebody’s pockets.
Unfortunately, that success cycles from the MIC back through to the prostititians in Congress, who continue to act against the interest of average citizens.
4
The world faces a decision whether to forgive the United States for electing as leader of their nation a person so destructive to the world order. They probably should, considering the country's pretty good record over the years.
But not if they re-elect him. Now everybody's waiting to see if they do.
3
"Now we’ve won. It is time to come back. They’re getting ready. You’re going to see them soon. These are great American heroes. These are great heroes of the world because they’ve fought for us. But they’ve killed ISIS, who hurts the world. And we’re proud to have done it.
"And I’ll tell you, they’re up there looking down on us, and there is nobody happier or more proud of their families, to put them in a position where they have done such good for so many people.
"So our boys, our young women, our men, they’re all coming back. And they are coming back now. We won. And that is the way we want it, and that is the way they [pointing to the sky] want it." - Trump
2
As a veteran of Iraq I have seen restaurant bombings time and time again. We love to eat local and don’t realize that everyone is watching. This is a leadership failure. This “local engagement” was negligent. All the talking heads are debating what this means at the policy level but we ignore that operational security means you don’t get to eat out!
5
So very sad for the families of those lost. Sadly it was always going to happen from the moment Trump boasted ISIS was beaten they were always going to prove him wrong of that there is no doubt. It is beyond sad that everything Trump says and does is about how he will look to his base, how he look to himself first and foremost. There will be more attacks every time Trump or Pence boast ISIS is beaten ISIS know how to play them.
1
I am sorry ... almost guilty ... that the supposed leader of the most powerful military and economic country in the world has me and the Fake News and everyone else he likes or dislikes trained to look at his tweets to see his thoughts.
Nothing about this, nothing about Rep. King.
But yeah, Rush works to rally Trumpites around himself and Coulter, and Hannity features Rush TELLING Trump to keep 800,000 people off salary and in pain for a few more weeks.
I saw inexperience and ignorance about what happens inside the Beltway three years ago, but what is happening is something so bad I that I can't really fathom where we will be in a year.
3
Trump must double down the withdrawal of the US troops from Syria as it doesn't serve any purpose except becoming easy prey to various actors in play in Syria. Mambij is controlled by Turkey's forces and allies and they must be responsible for all the security in this area. Ever since, Trump declared the pull-out various stake holders of the conflict started decrying the decision as all other stake holders benefit from the presence of US troops except US. This attack was not surprising given the fact the those opposed to the pull-out wanted to instigate and blame the attack on the decision of pull-out. Trump will not fall into the trap and withdraw the troops and Turkey will be entrusted to fight ISIS along with Syrian forces, Russia and Iran as they want to eliminate ISIS more than US as rightly pointed out by Trump. To save more American lives the pull-out shall be methodical and fast.
1
For perception and propaganda purposes, it would be best if the final crushing of the last gasp of ISIS is accomplished by Muslim forces, and not by non-Muslim forces.
That old Crusades thing, you know.
3
Thanks for Trump's shoot from the hip, unprepared, expedited withdrawal of American troops without sufficient input from the advice of the top Pentagon brass on this particular matter.
I'm sure that the families of our four troops which were killed without adequate withdrawal preparation thank Trump for his order.
How would Trump have handled it if it was his sons at their risk defending our country? Neither he nor they would ever be on any dangerous continent, except to hunt big game to extinction.
His selfishness and inability to be a real leader with humanity speaks volumes. Real leaders feel for their troops, while they are in danger zones, and they are there to support their troops. Those deaths may have been avoided, had there been adequate review, and contemplation, by the experts.
1
Trump "explains" to our nation that our troops are leaving Syria because we have defeated ISIS there. Days later, terrorists murder four Americans -- in Syria, the country our troops are leaving because they have solved the problem. Now for the self-inflicted coup de grace: Vice President Clueless takes to the air nationwide to repeat the bogus claim that we have defeated ISIS -- AFTER those four Americans have been murdered. What a ludicrous, ruinous crew of raging incompetents runs amok "at the controls" of our nation!
4
Four Americans murdered in Syria -- shortly after President Lost tells the American people we are leaving Syria because we have defeated ISIS there. The Vice President Clueless then takes to the air nationwide to repeat the bogus claim -- AFTER those four Americans have been murdered. What a ludicrous, ruinous crew our nation is saddled with!
6
ISIS was born in the cradle of civilization after US troops invaded Iraq during the Bush administration and the US tried to bring about a regime change in Syria during the Obama administration. ISIS was decimated but totally eliminated during the Trump administration. The last 2% of the ISIS would have required 98% of the effort. Should the US troops have been there to mop up the last 2%. No. Trump was right in safely bringing home the troops who were going to remain in harms way among civilians and become easy targets.
Trump was right and the generals were dead wrong. The middle east will always have pockets of dangerous areas like inner city areas of the megacities in the US. If only the 4 brave US troops who died in the restaurant had been brought back home to freely hang out restaurants in the US they will never have lost their lives. Deepest sympathies to the families who lost their loved ones. The US should not have been involved in the regime change wars in the middle east and Afghanistan in the first place. Responding to chemical attacks with aerial bombardment was appropriate but sending US troops on the ground only brings home a few good US soldiers.
There is a crisis at the border for decades and just when there is a president who wants to secure the border and enforce the immigration laws Pelosi is discouraging that and calling it immoral and obstructing progress on dealing withe border. Congress has to much power and we the people have very little. REFERENDUM.
3
In addition, a referendum would strike down the wall action easily. Look at the polls.
2
This isnt Great Britian or state or local issues that get determined by a referendum. Voters do not have an individual say on any federal policy. We elect representatives that reflect our views, and they are tasked with negotiating with all of the other representatives to govern for the good of the country as a whole. If the majority of representatives dont agree with our own, then they are outvoted.
1
@gretab which is why trump is holding the nation hostage.. He has not enough political support in Congress so needs to grow up instead of hurting his own fellow citizens.
1
If we are there to fight ISIS, why do we have multiple bases "hundreds of miles" from the nearest territory held by ISIS?
Let's be honest.
It's not about ISIS. It's not about the Kurds.
We're there to keep Assad from re-establishing control over his country and to keep Iran from establishing bases and gaining direct road access to them.
If this is a worthwhile objective, then Congress should vote for a formal declaration of war.
Let the debate begin.
9
@John then why does trump say its about isis, and why lie that it is defeated?
Peace is not going to result from America withdrawing troops from Syria nor from Iraq nor from Afghanistan. Even achieving peace by diplomacy requires a military presence to deter the more violent participants in the conflicts. People will be killed because these countries are unstable and violent people feel free to do their worst. If we could just walk away, I would be happy but that’s not going to happen.
2
I can't shake the suspicion that the chaos and unrest Trump's announcement of the sudden troop withdrawal already caused in the Kurdish areas may have made it easier for the ISIS terrorists to carry out their attack. Trump's absurd claim that ISIS is defeated is now disproven, at the high cost of four dead American service members.
13
Terrible waste of lives. But I can’t escape that dreary feeling, that this whole thing looks almost prearranged to supply the perfect ammo to delay, or even reverse the decision to pull the troops out.
Wouldn’t be the first time.
12
There was a time years ago, when I would have stated that the CIA was behind this attack, to keep a military presence in Syria. An effort to keep the battle in the Middle East and not on American soil. I overestimated them. They have known that Trump is a traitor and are allowing this threat to national security to continue. While we await a public declaration about Trump and his criminal, treasonous cartel, great damage continues to be done to this once great republic. Like Republicans, our intelligence agencies personnel are looking at self survival, rather than a patriotic duty to save our country.
2
Where are the Benghazi inquisitors? Trump’s failed military decision has cost lives. I would expect those patriotic Republicans will want to begin oversight proceedings. You know, like they did with Hilary, right?
26
They never even investigated the 4 deaths in 2017 in Niger. It was never about security in Benghazi, it was about weakening Hillary as a viable candidate.
2
It’s not the same at all. The victim today were off duty at a restaurant, not while on the job attempting to protect a diplomat. Dishonest and lazy comparison.
@Nick not really since the other was used for political purpose
2
The loss of life is tragic. Condolences to the surviving families. Trump's and Pence's respective declaration that ISIS is defeated is the epitome of arrogance and deception. Mission Accomplished, NOT!
8
Just for a second, close your eyes and imagine that you're in the military, stationed in Syria, with Trump as your commander in chief, knowing what you know about Russian money bailing out Trump when no U.S. bank would lend to him anymore. These are brave men and women in a losing situation.
9
dems criticize Bush for getting into wars they feel we shouldn't be in and demand we get our troops out. Obama is the guy who put these troops where they are and dems are ok with that. yet they still rail that we have troops where they shouldn't be, all put there by Bush, and we need to get out of the entire area. then, when trump says hes pulling out the troops, dems scream and yell and say that's the wrong answer. I just threw OP w up my hands. dems just want the opposite of whatever it is. doesn't matter, if it's someone else's decision it has to be wrong. worse than dealing with a 2 y/o old. I give up.
4
Day in and day it is obvious to the world Trump and his team of bright bulbs are clueless, regardless of their false (lies) they spit out.
ISIS is not "destroyed".
4
But, but, but - I thought IS had been defeated. Donald Trump said so.
5
“Wednesday’s attack revived the debate on Mr. Trump’s strategy”.
What ‘strategy’? Has anyone seen Mr. Trump involved in a strategy other than enriching himself and his family while in the Oval Office?
O, I’m sorry, there is a strategy which Mr. Trump and some GOP members follow, but that strategy is made in Russia:
“Donald Trump and the political action committees for Mitch McConnell, Marco Rubio, Scott Walker, Lindsey Graham, John Kasich and John McCain accepted $7.35 million in contributions from a Ukrainian-born oligarch who is the business partner of two of Russian president Vladimir Putin's favorite oligarchs and a Russian government bank”.
https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/08/03/tangled-web-connects-russian-oligarch-money-gop-campaigns
This, of course, also explains why the Senators (except Marco Rubio) voted today to lift the sanction off the Russian Oligarchs Deripaska’s businesses.
Perhaps it is time to start naming the Russian assets in the Senate while keeping in mind that there are likely also Chinese and Saudi assets who, as we speak, are implementing their own ‘strategies’ in the US Congress.
Wake up, America & Stand up for your rights!
11
If you remember "Mission Accomplished", well, this is version 2.0
6
One of several of Trump’s Benghazis. Shouldn’t someone started 10-20 investigations?
8
this is right up there with "mission accomplished"
6
Is there going to be like Benghazi type hearings? or GOP will bury this deepest political hole.
9
I'm getting so tired of winning.
3
Trump has failed. He made such of an issue of Obama's shortcomings in Syria, one would think he would have made sure to defeat ISIS before getting out. Now more Americans are dead. Trump has FAILED in Syria. TRUMP IS A FAILURE.
7
The worries should have been raised in 2015 when the previous administration recklessly put Americans into a conflict zone it had nothing to do with; to silence the critics from the Republican side thatbtime, criticising Obama’s concept of ‘leading from behind’.
The sooner the troops leave the better.
3
We can all thank Trump for the death of Americans, Bigly!
Trump bullies and stirs up all these extremists and creates new factions because of his nationalist views
Impeach Trump now to eliminate the bloodshed
2
And to think it wasn't the usual suspect this time--gas attack, trying to suck the US back into the Middle East madness that was begun when deep-swamp warmongers Bush-Cheney invaded Iraq based on a CIA lie.
The seemingly endless loss of American lives continues and will, it seems, for at least another generation.
5
We could fire a hundred cruise missiles at an empty airfield, that would take care of ISIS.
9
I don’t know when America will realise that Interference by outsiders can never eliminate Islamic terrorism. That’s the reason why America failed miserably in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and now in Syria.
If you kill some people, some more people will come up from nowhere with increased vengeance. The mindset should be changed once for all. That can only be done by proper education and by providing right type of employment opportunities.
Wise Muslims should be bold enough to to delete words like Jihad and other violent portions from Quran once for all. Further they should take initiative to properly educate Muslim children right from the very beginning. All Madarassa schools should be closed permanently in their own interest and in the interest of mankind. Unless and until it’s done these terrorist attacks keep happening and there will never ever be global peace.
11
President Trump said ISIS was defeated. What happened? Was it the Democrats? President Trump?
9
I’m sure Obama is responsible somehow.
4
Tired of winning yet...
8
Quite frightening when Rand Paul is the leading foreign policy voice in Trump's ear. Paul lives in a world of butterflies and unicorns yet amusingly he can't even keep himself save. His next door neighbor beat him up one day. Lord help us!
7
So sad.......
Tired of winning yet?
6
ISIS must be the dumbest terrorists, ever. All this latest attack will do is cause the US to reverse course and send more troops to Syria. If they had waited until after the withdrawal they would have been better able to regroup. So even when Trump gives them a present, they blow it!
Did it ever occur to you that this is their plan?
4
Remember this nonsense: Trump: "I don't give a specific ISIS plan because I don't want enemies to know it"
https://www.cnbc.com/2016/09/07/trump-i-dont-give-a-specific-isis-plan-because-i-dont-want-enemies-to-know-it.html
8
Is there anyone else in America who is tired of "winning"?
Another "win" for Trump. How many more "wins" can this nation tolerate?
Of late, a woman Congressman said a bad word about Trump. The word: Impeach.
10
AFTER the four Americans were killed Pence stated that ISIS is defeated. GOP is totally clueless. Ray Sipe
11
Hey Donnie, “Mission Accomplished”????
Will you be going to Dover AFB?
Sigh.....the late, once great, United States of America. Thanks, it was awesome.
4
Were those 4 Ameica soldiers tired of all the winning?
7
It's a good thing the President told us that we had destroyed ISIS...
8
Trump lies, Americans die
14
What in the world is with Pence making such an asinine statement? Is he trying to compete with trump for sheer thickness of skull?
12
..4 more American lives taken...it's reason enough to leave the wasteland called Syria.....ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah, Taliban....they will never be 'defeated' - you don't defeat ideologies, even if they are extreme.....
We need to leave Syria now!
2
We have an illegitimate president that doesn't know jack about anything to do with anything except being on the grift.
Get rid of him !
13
DAESH ( ISIS) is defeated... and Iran “can do whatever they want” in Syria and so can the Russians and of course Asaad ... time for America to ״cut and run”...
1
Benghazi!!!!!
8
With creative license from Jeb Bush, he was the Chaos candidate, is the Chaos *president, and is the Chaos commander in chief.
Lest we allow Chaos to dominate American foreign and domestic policy past the point of no return, impeach now.
5
Can't wait for the Benghazi fanboys and fangirls to start trying to pronounce Manbij, because these four American deaths are on Trump. I fully expect the Republicans to have 18 hearings about McDonald's Trump's fecklessness that resulted in their deaths, just like how Congressional Republicans spent $7m on 33 separate hearings over four years on Benghazi.
16
Condolences to the families of those who were killed.
So, foreign policy via tweet apparently works well in stoking the enemy. General Mattis tried to tell the fool, but he "knows more about ISIS than the generals." Trump should be the one break the news to the families of those brave Americans who were killed. Own it, buddy, you made it happen.
9
Let's see .... Cadet Bone Spurs (aka "smarter than all the generals") said we have "beaten ISIS" authorizing our troops to pull out of Syria. By making a statement like that he has dared ISIS to attack our troops and adds to their carnage of civilians and military personnel. My condolences goes out to the families affected by this tragedy.
9
Beautifully expressed. YOU should be president!
1
Pence and trump are ill-equipped to run this country. Hopefully the republicans will run a new ticket in 2020.
5
These American deaths make you want to keep troops in Syria? Consider that was the terrorists' objective of the attack: to show that they dictate US war policy and, of course, to keep the troops there as targets.
1
"The bombing puts Mr. Trump in the position of being squeezed between his decision to withdraw American troops and his promise in a tweet on Sunday to hit the Islamic State again, and ‘hard,' if the group lashed out.”
Put another way, the bombing puts Mr. Trump in the unusual (if only momentary) position of appearing accountable for his meaningless, instinctive outbursts.
Put yet another way: Okay, there’s your red line crossed, with the same number of American deaths as in Benghazi. Time to put aside your narrow, brand-building ambitions and listen to people who know what they’re talking about?
2
@Jonathan
Just wondering what leads you to believe these people know what they're talking about? Our past 20 years of foreign policy? Or are you thinking further back than that? The Gulf war, Granada, Nicaragua, Iran Contra, Vietnam, Bay of Pigs, Korean war?
In 100 years no one will be looking back at the latter half of the 20th century or the first few decades of the 21st to find examples of people who knew what they were taking about with regard to military intervention.
The question is, when do we stop listening to these "people who know what they're talking about?"
1
Trump knows as much about warfare as he does about running a business, hence him being a multiple bankrupt. He should learn to take advice from those with years of experience, and just stick to causing mayhem within and on the southern border of the US.
2
t must be horrible for the families of those in Syria with high hopes their loved ones were coming home, then to find out a twitter announcement isn't a PLAN and saying you've defeated the enemy via twitter isn't quite the same as actually defeating the enemy. It's a terrible way to govern.
3
Out of control - scary and the absolute wrong man in the White House. Do you hear me Mitch McConnell, the 40%, South Carolina et al?
4
Everything aside, we do not know How much Trump mind is in this problem.
Withdrawal decision was a childish reaction to Muller Probe developments ( Like monica problems and Iraq cruise missile attacks in Clinton time)
Now this development , of course Trump doesn't even think this ramifications or he ignored Mattis warnings.
Again how much he is in to this issues , he is spending a lot of time to watching Fox and rallying in his base.
1
In the way of all recent New York Times stories, this one reads more like an editorial than a news account.
And as such it is woefully deficient in logic.
The argument seems to be that the deaths of four Americans in Syria argues in favor of keeping Americans in danger there. And that Trump's plan to pull Americans out of Syria out is exposed as crazy and naive by more American bloodshed.
If the Times is becoming so cynical that it is for war when Trump is against it, and vice versa, just as part of the relentless campaign to attack him, then that is a real shame.
5
You’re cherry-picking. Trump said troops could leave, because ISIS was defeated. Should we be there —or anywhere else—as combatants? That’s a different discussion and we should hold it. These deaths and others are Trump’s, because he is ineffectual to the point of dangerous in international relations.
1
More blood on Mafia Don’s tiny hands. Putin knows his puppet will not be reelected, so he’s got to get his agent to do as much as possible leading up to the 2020 elections.
3
It's a good thing that ISIS doesn't feel emboldened by the American pull-out. Things could get nasty.
We withdrew a little to late. Let’s just leave that area and put up a wall around it.
Another "Mission Accomplished" from yet another Republican president!
Sad!
5
Fake news, quite obviously, since Commander-in-Chief Trump has assured us that Isis has been defeated.
7
Such a tragedy for these selfless troops and their families. But the sad reality is, for a full-blown military to fight terrorism is by definition a futile effort. You smack one head here and another one pops up somewhere else. It's like chasing your own tail and wasting trillions of dollars in the process. And all the while, more school children die in our own schools by those military style weapons every year. How utterly and unbelievably sad that nobody realizes that we're fighting the wrong wars in the wrong places.
3
Trump might reconsider but he will have to check with Putin first and see if he is ok with that.
4
God bless these soldiers and I grieve for the families of the fallen.
It's a price we pay to keep homeland safe.
I think this incident - what I gather from this story is the first one since March of 2016 - so, not exactly frequent.
It also appears that our soldiers had made a habit of visiting this restaurant - so they had become known targets.
Therefore, I hope we not jump to the conclusion that ISIS got "emboldened" by our withdrawal.
As POTUS has said - we have enough fire power around the world - and definitely in the region to punish supporters of this terrorist.
There is a comment below about Colin Powell in his confrontation with Mr Cheney. A good story - but Mr Powell helped us in the UN to make our case - though not successfully - and he did not resign when we invaded Iraq.
And Mr Powell is non operative here - so to speak - because we went into Syria long after it became a basket case.
And let's remember it is the 44th who first put soldiers there - after he reneged on his red line.
Perpetual wars - neoconservatives were condemned for.
This POTUS delivers on his campaign pledge of ending these perpetual American entaglements - and he is condemned.
Strange indeed.
3
Withdrawing from Syria was the correct decision. More dead US soldiers increases the urgency, not decreases it. The long we take to leave, the more avoidable deaths there will be.
There’s no pretense of strategy or endgame here. Just belligerence and obstinacy, and inability to step up to tough decisions. Not only is the US military NOT the solution here, it hasn’t been mostly, if not exclusively, elsewhere, certainly not since 9/11. Quite the opposite, it has made bad situations worse and strengthened our regional rivals, not weakened them.
There’s far too much reflexive, propagandistic military veneration in this country, most of it cynically promoted by media or political or business interests. All of it done to neuter opposition to our adventurism by those who profit from it.
3
One wonders if Trump gets this news and takes a moment to absorb it, or puts his head in his hands as sadness washes over him. Does he see any connection between his impulsive decision ( surprising both ISIS AND our generals ) and these lives lost? Does he have any regrets about how he handled this?
I think most of us know the answers to these questions.
3
If, against the counsel of all of his senior military advisers, Obama had declared ISIS DEFEATED and pulled out as Americans were being killed we would STILL be hearing about it. And that would be good, we need to honor the fallen and learn from our mistakes but sadly this will be swept up in the maelstrom of mendacity and missteps produced daily by this administration and forgotten.
6
Trump got his intel from Putin so ordered a withdrawal by tweet much to his pleasure turning over Syria to Russia and soon no doubt will be delivering Ukraine to Putin . These and more policy decisions will keep Trump's promise to Putin at Helsinki to make future foreign policy decisions that Putin verbally told him to do. If Trump does not comply Putin can release info that would call for Trump's resignation or impeachment. What other rationale is plausible.
1
This, after Trump's triumphant and bombastic announcement that the U.S. would withdraw from Syria immediately because ISIS had been wiped out and no longer existed. It was as if Trump was personally responsible for ISIS's defeat, those bone spurs not withstanding.
3
It’s déjà vu all over again. Now I truly understand the meaning of ambivalence.
It’s not Trump’s fault two of our fellow Americans were killed. As much as I loathe the man, it could have happened on anyone’s watch. It could have happened even if he hadn’t declared a Putin-friendly withdrawal.
Everything bad that happens doesn’t necessarily have someone culpable to blame.
Thank you, truly, for your selfless service in Syria, Soldiers, and God Bless you and your families.
2
So I guess you’re NOT ok with the 4 ridiculous Benghazi investigations where the GOP tried to paint Hillary Clinton as a bloodthirsty murderer.
6
Not a word from Trump. Not a word! And given the sorts of things he has said during past events in which Americans have been killed under his command, that's a small blessing.
1
So what we’re doing just became a retreat. I’m tired of winning.
1
My sincere sympathies to all their families and friends.
Is this, by any chance, a Benghazi moment? Will there be hearings to ascertain the president's responsibility of the attack?
1
I think the world will have more respect for our U.S. Diplomacy than ever before, now that they are missing it in the U.S. exit of Syria.
I was told isis is on the run and we were withdrawing troops now how can this be true? President trump wouldn’t lie to us?
1
My thought all along was: How could Trump know or presume that ISIS was defeated? Did they sign articles of surrender? So often these terrorist groups work in semi-autonomous, autonomous, and clandestine cells. It looks like Trump's only motivation to pull the USA out of Syria was to please Vladimir Putin, whose ambitions Trump places above the interests of the United States of America.
ISIS is a media-savvy terrorist group which has shown familiarity with Facebook, Instagram and Twitter to spread its name and recruit followers. After being taunted, an attack like this should not come as a complete surprise. My concern now is it might be followed by an attack in a Western country, as it has carried out in Europe, or even one in the United States, which is trying to cope with a partial government shutdown, and where TSA personnel are working without getting paid. Such an attack would give ISIS the publicity it seeks.
I think it’s a mistake to fully equate loss of territory with defeat. It does show weaknesses and quashes the physical manifestation of a caliphate, a major achievement. But ISIS ultimately is an idea, and an idea does not require land or a large standing army to be perpetuated. I don’t have any solutions. But in the war on terrorism, it might be wise not to adhere to the metrics of previous centuries when determining strategies, or declaring final victory and defeat.
107
@Alan: I could not agree more Alan. ISIS is ultimately an idea. In the movie BEN HUR; the Romans were then confronted by the same reality. Masallus is asked how do you fight an idea? For all their military might; they could not crush the Jewish rebellion when it came to the belief of the Jewish people. His answer was one that should be heeded to this day. With a BETTER idea. One of freedom and opportunity the people of the Middle East have never really known. Instead you get Trump bragging how ISIS has been crushed and so the troops can now come home. Mission Accomplished...NOT. Until you have actually defeated the mad dream of ISIS ; they are not going away; no matter how many battles you have won. Something Trump and Co. will never get.
5
Remember when 9/11 happened and W's approval shot through the roof because he promoted love instead of hate, coming together as a nation without prejudice?
Well, it took al-Qaeda a while, but it looks like they're finally winning since we decided to elect Trump.
7
Yes, what could be more “loving” than an unprovoked invasion of Iraq (creating ISIS), a network of black op torture sites, kidnapping and rendition, and foolhardy crusader talk from the Frat Boy In Chief and his minions? All costing unfunded trillions and the unnecessary deaths of thousands of our military and hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.
Happy Days Indeed.
4
they're only "winning" since trump was elected? I cant even come up with a response to such ridiculousness.
This can’t be true, I’m sorry.
There’s nobody bigger or better at the military than Donald Trump.
Nobody is tougher than Donald Trump on ISIS.
Nobody knows more about military technology than Donald Trump.
Donald Trump knows more than the generals.
He said all these things himself and nobody knows Donald Trump better than Donald Trump.
Donald Trump said ISIS was defeated in Syria.
So this bombing must have been a “false flag” using “crisis actors.”
Those people aren’t dead, they just fell down, that’s all. They stood back up as soon as the filming was over.
Nobody knows more about anything than Donald Trump.
And only he can fix it
33
But President Trump told us he defeated ISIS in Syria. Is this another lie he told us?
12
Hmm . . . . Just wondering: “Should Republicans, to be consistent, call this Trump’s Benghazi?”
17
No. But they should ( and it will not surprise me if they do), blame Hillary and haul her in to explain why she deleted the planning for this from her emails.
1
With three great generals gone from the White House and so many “acting heads”, it is no longer feasible for the US military under Trump to be exposed to so many volatile and dangerous countries. I think deep down Trump knows this. Whether or not ISIS is defeated, the US will likely continue to pay a heavy price until logistics, strategy, deployment and governance are once again under proper control and analysis. Trump does not read. He does not analyse. He is not keen on being in NATO because he does not want Allies to see the Emperor has no clothes. With this sorry White House, all forces should withdraw into the President’s comfort zone of non-combat and manoeuvres only. This is not good for the kurds but I fear the President has no idea what the troops are doing in Syria. This level of high-stakes engagement is completely beyond him and always will be. Back to barracks until 2020.
8
Okay, so we are withdrawing equipment now, but not troops? Is that a great idea, leaving our troops with less equipment? If we are going to leave, shouldn't the fully armored troops leave and then take out the equipment? What kind of thinking do we have here?
7
Our dead in Syria today are a great tragedy. Every human life is precious. Real people will really die because of the manifestly unfit Mr. Trump, his White House, and his immoral opportunistic protectors in Congress. In fact, thousands of real people are already really dying because of them. For example, in Yemen they have failed to stop the excesses of the Trump family friends the Saudis who are putting millions at risk of death by violence, starvation or disease. In Puerto Rico, more than 4,000 American citizens died, after an incompetent and fecklessly racist Trump Republican White House response. In America, they are sabotaging the ACA, making health care and health insurance increasingly unaffordable and unavailable for working class and middle class thousands. In America, they have not done anything at all to stop the more than thirty thousand gun deaths every year.
26
Impossible. Must be some other group. Our glorious Commander in Chief Donald J. Trump, who knows more about ISIS than than any of our military leaders claims we’ve defeated them.
20
He alone.
All alone.
If Trump had withdrawn his troops within his original 30- day timetable, these lives would not have been lost.
4
@Michael Munk i thought that isis was defeated? Trump told us that was the reason for removing the military. You should contact the WH right now to explain the military intelligence.
1
Trump is responsible. Syrian withdrawl gave a green light to ISIS. GOP is complicit in their inaction. Ray Sipe
10
I thought they were defeated?
Oh, how naive of me to believe in the POTUS.
10
So much for winning the war against ISIS. Can we please save the lives of our servicemen and women by getting rid of the bloiviating buffoon in the Oval Office?
15
Will POTUS or vpotus standup and deliver the news to the families?
Thank you for your service. I hope your families will eventually find solace.
5
What tragic news. May they not have died in vain. Get US troops out of Syria now.
2
This is a tragic event, that we're still losing American lives in a war that is owned by Bashar al-Assad and Putin is indefensible. That we are assisting those two henchmen is beyond belief. The freedom fighters have lost and it 's a matter of time before The Russians have their Mediterranean port. Let those blood brothers do the remaining fighting and sustain any further losses.
We need to find a way to support the Kurds as they've proven to be our most reliable allies in the region. Protect them from the Turks and arm them if necessary. Then get out asap.
As for Lindsey Graham, its hard to believe that there is someone less trustworthy than Trump in Washington, but he's making a pretty good case.
8
I don’t think this has anything to go with Trump.
If, as this author wrote the local’s interviewed said this restaurant was a common spot for troops to go to after their patrols.
This would have made this restaurant and easy target for ISIS to attack.
Terrible tragedy
2
@Independent voter
How do you know that it doesn't "has anything to go with Trump"?
It's best not to volunteer to serve in the Empire's war machine. We're not fighting any necessary, defensive wars. Since WW II, we've fought wars of aggression, invading and occupying small foreign countries such as Grenada, Panama, Iraq, Vietnam...countries that never did anything to us and never would have.
When you volunteer to serve in the Empire's military, you inherently become complicit in all the hegemonistic wrong it does.
You also put yourself in harm's way.
He who lives by the sword dies by the sword.
It's not heroic to die in service of a dishonorable cause.
7
Not our problem. If the United States were not in the Middle East, then these four Americans would still be alive. It is irresponsible for the U.S. media to continually flog these issues, in an effort to goad our people into spending more money on this fruitless and never-ending war in the Middle East. We don't need to be there period. It is time to withdraw the American armies to Japan and the United Kingdom, and let these two nations be our island aircraft carriers. Let Israel and the Saudis defend themselves.
7
Horrible news. So ISIS is chasing the U.S. out of Syria. I thought they were defeated. You mean to tell me the president has been caught lying again? It can't be!
19
Newsflash from the Kremlin: Mission Accomplished!
16
"Trump lied, men died."
Again.
That's the Right Rhyme, right Righties?
20
Had our idiot president been alive during WWII, he would have backed the marginot line . trump would have thought himself smarter than General de Gaulle. Remember, trump was so proud when he told Kim Jong-un that we have three nuclear subs off the coast of N. Korea. Now, the question is, did he hand over area coordinates.
The guy’s a genius.
7
Tell me again why we should stay in Syria. 1 dead is 1 too many.
1
But, but I thought the Traitor in the White House told us several weeks ago that ISIS was defeated?
19
What you are expecting from ISIS, Mercy.
Cowards when you turn your back , they will strike. It is 101 of terrorism.
1
@su I am completely lost about the use of terrorist or terrorism in general. Why? Nelson Mandela was declared terrorist in 1967 as president of the African Nacional Conference (ANC) and jailed because he was a terrorist and his organization was a terrorist organization, he spent 27 years in jail and even when the South African promise to free him if he renounced his activities, he prefers to remain in jail rather renounce or denounce what he considers his principles, finally the South African government capitulate after there was a boycott against the South African government and he was sent home free. Then he won the presidency of South Africa on free and democratic elections, after his 5 years of the presidency were over he practically was begged to continue being president and again say no more. He won the Nobel Prize for Peace, he became a giant of the 20th century as a politician and a human being and in 2008 he had the San Benito of terrorist lifted. What is a terrorist then??
The idiot orders troop withdrawals without consulting the Pentagon....and the servicemen pay for it with their lives.
Their blood is on the Republicans' hands. All of them.
13
Comrade Donal'd will be shocked to discover that ISIS was able to operate in an ISIS cleared zone. The poor dear should stick with Fox Fake News and watch his next supreme court nominee, Judge Jeanine Pirro.
9
Tired of our troops dying for some other country. My condolences to the troops families.
It is unfair that it seems like it is ALWAYS the US that helps out everybody else. Why isn't other countries over there helping out with Syria without us? The countries that are closest to them that are not their enemy. Why is it ALWAYS THE USA? If we just stayed over here and let them fight their own battles. And we fight ours. There are countries that could completely control the problem Syria is going through. Let them help. Let them lose troops. Why is it the US,,, ALWAYS???The US gets sucked into everybody's freaking war drama...We lose money, good men, endless amounts of time with families and lots of blood sweat and tears... And FOR WHAT??? These other countries have been in wars long before my 55 years on this planet. The only difference now is,,, they have the US fighting in their infinite wars.
1
The Iraq war and Afghanistan war were not "their wars." They were invasions of choice by a Republican preside president of two sovereign nations who had not attacked us. We don't get to wring our hands about endlessly helping other countries fight their wars in these two follies that have cost us blood, treasure and reputation.
1
Back at the ranch/White House, Pence babbles that we have defeated ISIS in Syria. I suppose he and his puppet master will explain the deaths of our four Americans as a result of high cholesterol.
9
Haven’t the ISIS soldiers heard they lost? Maybe we should send over our Commander-In-Chief to tell them himself. He may be the only government employee left if things continue this way.
13
Trump is doing exactly what he criticized his predecessors for doing; Leaving the battle field while the enemy was still potent thus creating a power vacuum. ISIS will seize the initiative making great propaganda value of Trump's retreat. Putin, Assad, Erdogan and everyone else in the Mideast theater will see an American retreat as a great betrayal by the U.S. to its own allies and therefore an opportunity to be exploited.
Trump once asserted that "I know more than the generals". We all know better. Being commander in chief of United States forces is not simply about giving orders and moving pieces on a chess board. It is the most difficult and complex positions of responsibility in the world. Before orders are given Trump needs to sit down and listen, listen very carefully to the highly experienced experts that need to be advising him. Regrettably that will not happen. There will be more chaos and slaughter in the Mideast and elsewhere as Trump continues to speak his mind without thinking things through.
When will the adults, if any remain, speak boldly and openly to Trump and be prepared to resign en-masse if necessary. We recall the revolt of the admirals when the Navy was to be literally dismantled post-World War II. The cut backs and the danger to the nation were pointed out in a revolt by the admirals, forcing the president, to back down. This is a similar situation. Trump needs a reality check. He is endangering our nation and our allies too.
6
I thought ISIS was defeated, which is why the US is pulling out. You mean to tell me that ISIS is not only NOT defeated, but strong enough and organized enough to bomb US soldiers?
4
Is anybody bothered by the fact that we have soldiers fighting in a sovereign country that doesn’t want us there?
We haven’t actually declared war on this country.
And we’re not there to just fight ISIS, since our forces in Manjib are hundreds of miles from the nearest ISIS-held territory.
What actually is our legal basis for being there?
6
@John
Is anybody bothered by the fact that we have soldiers fighting in a sovereign country that Congress has not not authorized?
1
@MauiYankee
I am.
That's why I think Congress needs to formally vote to declare war in/against Syria. Of course, that will never happen, which shows why we shouldn't have troops there in the first place.
2
I have just read in the NY Post that Pence stated just after news of the killings of our 4 troops, that we have defeated ISIS. It now appears he is an even more "brazen" liar than Donald Trump. Actually his behavior is similar I find to the N. Korean population who show unending obsequiousness to Kim Jong un, in this case it is Pence bowing to anything Trump puts forward. This is appalling, and that he did not condemn the murders or offer any words of solace to the families of our servicemen. To me this is vile. And he says he is a Christian, though his values (afterall this is not based on fear as in N Korea) attest to something sinister in my opinion.
6
Trump will want to build “a big, beautiful wall, folks” along the Syrian border with neighboring countries “to keep the bad, bad ISIS terrorists out, folks.”
But aren’t we supposed to be celebrating the obliteration of ISIS? This is a dreadful act of violence, but what’s equally as dreadful is remembering that the president who is supposed to comfort the afflicted is none other than Donald Trump, the least-qualified person in America to hold the highest office in the land. It’s a disaster compounded by the everyday misery of the Trump presidency. What a world, what a world.
2
This was Obama's problem and he did nothing to resolve it for 8 years except draw meaningless lines in the sand. Trying to pass if off on Trump won't work. Obama is responsible for what is taking place.
1
How do you ask someone to be the last man to die for a war Trump claims has been won?
3
“We are bringing our troops home,” Pence said in an address to more than 180 U.S. ambassadors and chiefs of missions abroad gathered for a conference in Washington. “The caliphate has crumbled, and ISIS has been defeated.” Pence today after ISIS has killed 4 US soldiers.
What mass insanity has infiltrated our current administration?
7
Who did NOT see this coming when Putin's puppet announced: "We have won against ISIS. We have beaten them and we have beaten them badly"?
3
The Right Reverend Pence continued:
The Caliphate has been CRUSHED.
IsIs has been DESTROYED.
Our thought and prayers go out to the two brave, courageous servicemen killed in Syria today.
They and the two American profiteers killed were the victims of an over-exuberant victory celebration.
2
It took him two years to wreck everything. Everything.
4
Who lives in Manbij? What does the indigenous population consist of? Kurds? Arabs? Turks? All three? That matters more than what group of men with guns controls the town at any given time . A suicide bomber cannot succeed if he is an outsider to the community, either as a nonresident or ethnically, or (especially) both.
1
Trump lives in his own fantasy, where his wise generalship has defeated, Isis, North Korea will surrender all of its nuclear weapons because of his supreme negotiating skills and cold hamburgers (which HE paid for) are a generous way to honor the national champions in football. He is a child, playing at being a grown up, and the damage he is doing to our country as president will do terrible harm to millions of American citizens and take decades to repair.
3
Damascus, Syria to Jerusalem, Israel - 233 miles
Washington, DC to New York City - 235 miles
Damascus, Syria to Baghdad, Iraq - 527 miles
Washington, DC to Detroit, MI - 523 miles
It is so very obvious that nothing in the Middle East is disconnected from anything else.
These countries are very close to each other.
Our actions, either in Iraq or in Syria can have immediate local effects on Israel.
Remember when Colin Powell invoked the Pottery Barn image - 'if you break it, you own it'?
We've been stewing this Middle East pot for a very long time time, and our actions have broken the functioning of many countries there.
That includes Syria, Iraq and Iran.
And of course Palestine.
No matter what happens now, we own it - ALL of it.
4
My heart goes out to those who died in the attack and their families.
At the same time, the cynic in me can't help wondering about the timing of this bombing - just when Trump announced that he wants to withdraw troops from Syria and many politicians in the US and several countries (Israel, Saudi Arabia, and other Sunni Arab countries) came out against his decision.
I don't know this for a fact but I believe - if we can call this combat fatality - this is the first combat fatality of US servicemen or personnel in northern Syria. Even during all the fierce fighting when ISIS was controlling large chunks of land, there were no body bags coming from Syria.
As the old saying goes, in the complicated and convoluted politics of the middle east, one has to look who benefits from developments to understand what's really going on and who's responsible for it; who is going to benefit from this bombing, or in the big picture, who is benefiting from ISIS's existence and who has an interest in keeping ISIS alive as a boogeyman?
3
@Ivan
Go easy Ivan when proposing an alternative explanation in these parts. Although you are likely speaking to some of the most highly educated readers; Many forget to apply their critical thinking skills when a particular event confirms their predetermined conclusion.
Lets see, twice we've announced the intent of pulling our troops out of Syria. Apparently neither Assad nor ISIS can't restrain themselves from launching chemical attacks and suicide bombings shortly thereafter. How else would they ensure sure we get out of there in a hurry? Sun Tzu would certainly be impressed with these brilliant tactics.
Maybe next time we should withdraw the troops without announcement, as I'm not convinced we should be there in the first place. But alas, there would certainly be a similar incident and everyone would be clamoring on about us leaving being the wrong decision. When there's unseen agendas and ulterior motives at play, on and on we go ad infinitum.
Reagan pulled out of Lebanon after the Marine barracks attack.
Trump needs to stay the course with our withdrawal.
2
My condolences to the families of the unfortunate soldiers. But we should continue the withdrawal from Syria no matter what. It is common that soldiers die in an active battle ground. We all know it and accept this fact. It is wishful thinking that we can send many soldiers to Syria and expect them all to come back unharmed in one piece. This is not the first death, and will not be the last example if we continue staying there. It is very selfish to think that as long as none of my family members are in the front line, we can continue the war in Syria. It is not our war.
2
Totally unnecessary loss of life. Those troops should have never been put there in the first place. They were not invited and had been there illegally. That entire 'coalition' (of the shilling) was and is a farce.
Manbij and the entire area East of the Euphrates river should be ceded to Syrian government control (it is THEIR country) and the Americans should withdraw. That is the only way to save the Kurds from a Turkish onslaught.
3
Donald Trump fails utterly both as domestic president and as one who presides over our foreign policy and military. He is completely worthless. Except to ... whom? Putin?
1
Stability isn't even a word found in Trump's vocabulary.
John Bolton and Mike Pompeo were embarrassing oafs during the Bush era, why would it be considered anything other than stupidity that they are now the ones in charge of "diplomacy" for a nitwit like Trump. Since when were any of these 3 stooges considered competent on the world stage.
1
Did Sen. Graham just blame this attack on the President’s decision????
3
This has to be fake news because President Trump said we'd defeated Isis.
2
Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh share the blame for this and all the other stupid things they advise the Trump about.
2
From Twitter (naturally):
"@realDonaldTrump 19 Dec 2018
We have defeated ISIS in Syria, my only reason for being there during the Trump Presidency."
I'd like to make a sarcastic comment about this but I won't because some American's son/daughter/Mom/Dad was killed today.
3
Manbij?
That sounds like it could be Syrian for "Benghazi."
3
If I am to follow the “logic” of my fellow commenters, then the fact that four service members were just killed after years of US presence in Syria means we must send other soldiers over for an unlimited amount of time. This makes no sense. It was always predictable - and predicted - that defeating ISIS as a territorial entity would re-fashion them as a non-territorial terror group. Which can’t be defeated by having US soldiers hang out in Syria like sitting ducks. Obviously Trump is up to no good but can we please not take leave of our senses out of reflexive disagreement with everything he does.
7
@Christian Haesemeyer
..and in Vietnam earlier, or Afghanistan now.
It appears that the restaurant was a known draw for our folks. I don't mean to be trite but we need to get the troops better chow; I've experienced similar attacks in the green zone in Baghdad in 2004 at restaurants that coalition forces, including civilians such as myself, frequented. "Don't go home in a body bag for a decent meal", we were told, and the restaurants were closed down and/or declared off limits.
6
Yes, all of this goes back to the war in Afghanistan, in not h having enough troops on the ground to do the job the first year to catch or kill the Taliban, cut off and contain Osama bin Laden in Bora, Bora, the first year. Then, the fact that President George W. Bush, made that horrible decision to go into Iraq, stirred up the factor of terroristic resistance. Then, because the Shia majority in Iraq had never governed for decades, they weren't able to manage security, and we as a nation were giving them billions each year, and under President Barack Obama, should of never had our troops pull out, caused the icing on the cake of terrorist groups like Islamic State being emboldened all across Africa, the middle east, and Europe, I'm afraid. Destabilizing both Egypt, and Libya, finished off the ignorant decisions by the last two Presidents, and now it is anyone's guess, what military decisions should be made, as the leaders in Europe are having internal political issues, and Russia is in the mix about Syria, and the poor Kurds in Syria, and Iraq, don't have a stable ally over there anymore. What should be done, now, is anyone's guess, having allowed hundred's of huge hornet's nests to gain steam, and fester over a vast area.
4
In his wisdom, our president telegraphed his military plans to ISIS. More collusion?
8
Trump has no credibility without independent corroboration. I am not surprised nor disappointed by the clear evidence that ISIS is still a big problem. Nor will I be when Sarah Sanders et al spin the facts into further proof of Trump's amazing genius.
3
Time to leave Syria and don't waste anymore American lives and for what? We are fighting a war without end and we don't even know are we fighting for. Lets get out of Middle East and South Asia. Lets take care our own backyard first.
3
Mr. Graham needs some syrup for his waffles.
Mr. Pence and Ms. Sanders need to hold soap bars in their mouths for an hour, as punishment for lying.
It goes without saying, that supporting Trump is growing trickier by the day.
By the time he is done, there’s no telling what will be left intact.
Isn’t the movie going to be incredible?
5
@WW West Do not forget that what Ms. Sanders and Vice-president Pence say is what President Trump tell them to say, period. I do not think that they should be blamed.
This is tragic.
Now will there be a Behngazi style investigation costing $7 million?
12
To this attack Pence responded "ISIS is defeated", "ISIS has been defeated", and "the caliphate crumbled". Just repeating what Trump claimed about ISIS.
Yeah, sure. And our skedaddling will not give ISIS an opportunity to regroup. Many Trump followers believe that.
3
“While the city is hundreds of miles from any territory held by the Islamic State…”
If the U.S. is there to fight ISIS, why are U.S. ground forces hundreds of miles from any territory held by ISIS??
Hmm. Maybe we’re not actually there to fight ISIS.
3
I thought we had defeated ISIS. The President said so.
8
I believe this has to be a CIA sponsor attack. Bolton wants to start a war with Iran, and is looking for excuses.
1
Imagine how much worse this would be if The Great Leader Trump had not, through sheer force of personality and negotiation skills, already vanquised them!
2
Impossible. Haven’t you heard? ISIS has been defeated. Trump said so.
11
imagine the carnage if ISIS hadn't been defeated...
7
@Rudy Flameng It would have been as bad as Bowling Green!
But trump told us that HE defeated Isis...
Parade plans were probably being hashed out.
9
From my standpoint ISIS is more a local and European problem that we have adopted. However, like famous “red lines” and commitments, we must follow up if we are honorable to our friends and to ourselves. Trump may not comprehend this since he is not an honorable man. However, he does seem to understand that we are overextended around the world and that allies, both true and not so true, have a habit of taking advantage of us. Now no matter what we do it will be wrong.&
1
Suicide bombing at a restaurant frequented by Americans is a targeted terrorist attack. Clearly, our troops are still vulnerable to terrorist attacks in northern Syria. Trump's boasting that ISIS is defeated most likely have spurred more crazies to commit suicide to kill Americans. I hope and pray that ISIS trained terrorists will not find their ways to the homeland.
1
Did Four Star DefSec General James Mattis say...
“Thank God we have a genius in The White House.”
Or was I having a nightmare?
3
The Internet allows Isis to be anywhere 24/7, thus providing them an ability to direct their sympathizers and supporters wherever and whenever.
Our troop presence in specific regions brings varying degrees of effectiveness because the Internet has neutralized us. Isis and their ability to engage us has morhed into a multi-headed snake.
2
But Don said unequivocally that we'd defeated ISIS.
I suppose that stems from the same batch of lies that screeches Obama founded ISIS.
How do I get off this merry-go-round of alternative facts?
5
I guess cleaning up Obama's mess is never done.
let me sum up the 100 comments I have just read, including the top five reader pics.
hahahahaha Trump was wrong!!!!!!
In a few cases that was preceded or followed by and expression of sympathy, those however were rare.
3
I don’t see any laughing, just the ongoing manifestation of the curse that liberals are always denounced as being smug when they point out they were right about things that should have been obvious to everyone using common sense and readily available data (such as the fact that ISIS was not defeated, and pretty much every other lie that apparently consists of trump’s ‘foreign policy’)
Trump insults our military and troops and puts their lives in danger with his self-serving lie that ISIS has been defeated. He promised he would destroy ISIS in only thirty days--23 months ago. Of course, it's just a matter of hours before he'll pretend that he never said any of those things, just as he now whines that he never promised Mexico would pay for a border wall (despite having been documented saying exactly those words 212 times), or that he would "own" the shutdown and not blame the Democrats. His base, like all delusional subcultures, is no longer capable of distinguishing fact from fiction. Trump's minions used to admonish us citizens not to take his words so literally, as if Trump were still a D-list celebrity reality show entertainer. Yet Trump's lies have real world consequences, actual human lives and livelihoods are at stake. Finally, to add insult to injury, Mike Pence is currently doing his best Baghdad Bob impression, bleating out propaganda that ISIS is long gone. A suggestion: instead of using his Bible as a weapon, as his custom, he might try opening it up and checking out what it has to say about liars, false prophets, etc.
20
I often think back at those prescient words of Colin Powell during the Bush administration. To paraphrase, he warned the powers- that-be, Cheney most prominently, that if we invade (Iraq), we own it. And now as we continue our struggles in Afghanistan and Iraq, we find ourselves in an ominous and similar situation in Syria. Make no mistake, I to this day was/am against our preempted war in Iraq. Afghanistan was a losing proposition to begin with. It is tribal and intends to stay that way, at least for the present, no matter how we desire to force our ideology upon it.
So without Mattis at the helm, and having a blundering, lying, fool as a Commander-in-Chief, what now? I for one am weary of having our own injured or killed. But nature abhors a vacuum no matter what good or what evil journeys to fill it.
229
@Kathy Lollock
Powell regrets his words....and should. He helped sell the lie that was Iraq. As for Cheney and Bush? I hope they can spend eternity in Purgatory contemplating their lies.
30
@Kathy Lollock We defeated the Taliban in Afghanistan back in 2001
7
@Paul P. Sorry, but no one spends eternity in purgatory.
4
Any US troop deaths in this bombing are a direct result of Trump's recent antics regarding the withdrawal of the troops from Syria. This is unconscionable, and ought to be considered grounds for Trump's immediate removal from office. Let's add "premeditated murderer" to the list of impeachable offenses Trump has now committed.
7
In Vietnam we waited until more than 50,000 U.S. members had been killed before admitting nation-building projects don't work in countries that view Americans as ethnic and cultural outsiders.
7
Mr. Trump should be at Dover Air Force Base to meet the bodies of these soldiers. Let him see the consequences of his “policies”.
7
I am the mother of two sons, one an OIF combat veteran with two tours and the other active duty. If anything had happened/happens to either one of them as happened to these young soldiers, trump is the last person on earth I would wish to welcome them at Dover. He is unworthy of the office of CinC and disgraces our country on a daily basis.
3
Trumps a coward and will never visit Dover.
2
If the troops had been withdrawn within the original timetable this death(s) would have been avoided.
3
Doesn't any of Trump's supporters have loved ones in the service? Do they feel that Trump is really looking after the welfare of these family members or is their hatred of Democrats so strong that they are willing to overlook just how incompetent and dangerous Trump really is?
I can almost understand why some people voted for Trump in 2016 but I cannot comprehend why they still support him now.
11
Odd that Fox News has absolutely no coverage of this from what I can gather. Alternate realities abound.
12
Trump will just shrug and say “they knew what they were signing up for.”
10
IS performed this heinous act purposely to let the infidels know that they are alive and well.
When dealing with these"people", efforts to assign blame to the US government are unfounded.
Wow! We thought the commander in chief said ISIS was defeated, and he knows better than any general. How could we all have been such bad listeners or readers to misunderstand what he really must've said? It must be that he misspoke or mistweeted.
1
Eating in a local restaurant? In a combat zone? My condolences to the families...we need to get out. We need to send the young male Syrian "refugees" back to fight for their country.
3
Having a president with no inexperience in politics, foreign affairs, military matters or anything else other than real estate dealings, adultery and bankruptcies does not bode well for the United States.
21
Every time a U.S. president announces "Mission Accomplished" in the Middle East, the Middle East proves that the mission is never accomplished as long as we're in the middle of the Middle East.
9
@Rick Gage
I'm not certain that a mission has ever been truly defined.
2
Beyond glib comments about how Trump's declaration that ISIS was defeated mirrors the Mission Accomplished of George W Bush, I don't think anybody can claim to have the solution for how to fight terror. Asymmetric warfare such as this attack and the hotel attack in Nairobi simply emphasizes how difficult it is to thwart a determined terrorist.
We know that NOT being involved in countries where terrorists are present can lead to very bad results (the Taliban and 9/11), while being involved in those same countries can make us targets as well. I have yet to see a credible third option.
2
Pandemonium. Multiple different people from the same government with different messages. Great.
5
Obviously, ISIS isn't happy about Trump removing troops from Syria. They're using the same strategy that Al Qaida used successfully: invite the US military in so you can attack them.
Washington will fall for it once again.
7
So, you're saying that ISIS wants us there? I don't believe that to be true.
2
What a needless tragedy. What the heck are our troops doing dinning out in a restaurant in an ISIS infested war zone? Seriously, don't those up the chain of command have any common sense? Our troops take enough risks patrolling outside the wire in this area, but to go into town and dine at a local establishment is just reckless and inviting trouble. It's just inexplicable, and now our soldiers are dead because those in charge didn't have the common sense to keep them safe. My condolences to the families of those killed and injured.
4
Trump got something else wrong. I've tried to keep count of all the things Trump gets wrong, but numbers don't go up that high.
9
Trump was right. If Bolton hadn’t taken control of foreign policy those guys would be alive now and on their way home.
4
But didn’t Trump say ISIS was defeated?
2
This horrific attack was motivated by the undisciplined remarks by an unfit president to precipitately withdraw from Syria.
Thanks to him, America is in mourning.
11
“....set in motion enthusiasm by the enemy we’re fighting” and “make people we’re trying to help wonder about us, and as they get bolder, the people we’re trying to help are going to get more uncertain,” “I saw this in Iraq. And I’m now seeing it in Syria"
Careful Lindsay. You don't want to cause Donnie to need to jerk your leash, do you?
Be a Good boy and sit on the floor....
4
Mattis couldn't stop Trump from his inane decision to summarily withdraw from Syria yet Bolton was able to walk back Trump's words. Why? Perhaps because every sane advisor still working for Trump practically hit him over the head that he actually does not "know more than the generals?"
4
Why should we be surprised that Trump, who calls his losses “wins” (e.g. midterm election results), would claim that ISIS has been “defeated”? Today’s bombing in Northern Syria won’t change his mind. He will simply say that the bombing is a defeated ISIS “lashing out”.
6
Trump’s ‘Mission Accomplished’ moment.
6
"The Caliphate has crumbled and ISIS has been defeated"...Mike Pence.
I guess ISIS didn't get the memo.
13
@alan Hays
What is truly jaw-dropping is that VP Pence made that remark after being briefed about US troop losses today in Syria.
What kind of amoral, soulless cretin would stand on a podium and brazenly lie about the loss of human life?
I'm unable to process that.
NOT my president
4
What? I thought ISIS had been defeated.. after all, the President said so
We are the laughingstock of the world.
10
Well Mr. Trump, it appears that everything is progressing right along in the Middle East. The skies are blue, the sun is warm and the birds are chirping. Another great day for a bomb blast killing Americans and everyone around them. Nothing like following orders from Mr. Putin.
5
As far as Fox News followers are concerned: https://www.businessinsider.com/study-watching-fox-news-makes-you-less-informed-than-watching-no-news-at-all-2012-5
3
One thing that will never happen, Bone Spurs Trump will never visit Syria--coward.
3
Pence stated: “The caliphate has crumbled, and ISIS has been defeated.” Saint Pence, you just can't think for yourself! Trump, as did Bush, with their idiotic statements, "ISIS defeated" and "Mission Accomplished" motivated and invited attacks. Man-child Trump, ISIS just sent a message to you, did you hear it? It is written in American blood!
6
Wait, didn’t the bigot clown declare that ISIS was defeated and that’s why we are pulling out of Syria?
5
I have a quick question for all please. We said we are getting out, correct? Yes! If you were Isis, would not you welcome that news? Or would you prefer that the US makes a u turn to say we are staying until we clear out Isis after this attack! Either these guys prefer to fight with our troops instead of Russian / Turkish or they have a different agenda given by their masters. Clearly some people who is managing Isis and other terror orgs do not want the us to leave!
Isis had attacked all countries in the region, Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebonan, Turkey and others. Except Israel...
Now can it be possible that as much as I do not like our president, can he be doing the right thing to get our men and women out of this hell while our suppose to be citizens neocons/ evangelists making sure to stay and serve Israels ultimate long term goal at the expense of American lives? Let’s make America great again by working for Americans but no onelse please
5
@Bosch
The simplest and most logical reason for this attack is that Isis is making it clear that they have not been vanquished.
1
@EFM so why not making that statement right after we leave?.?the pa the masters of. Clearly Isis and their masters want us to stay in Syria
Republicans, if you are not ashamed of your president by now, get off those opioids, weed, smack, horse,crack, or whatever has taken you from the real world. Because trump is killing us one way or another. He is a fraud and you are in denial or medicated. No one in their right mind can see any credibility in the baby traitor in chief.
9
Trump can be wrong about everything and Trump's base will continue to follow him to the edge of the cliff and go off the deep end while Trump waves at them on their way down.
My condolences to the families of the soldiers that perished. I am an Army veteran who served under an honorable president back in the 80s and now have a son in the US Air Force currently serving under this disgraceful commander in chief.
9
This is blood on the hands of the warmongers and arms salesmen who delayed the pullout that dear leader ordered more than a month ago.
Yes, it was a rash off-the-cuff badly advised decision, but in the long run the whole area is so messed up that it wouldn't make much difference how chaotic our exit is.
And if we'd done it in 30 days these people would still be alive.
8
Rash and off the cuff is what got these service members killed. Exiting a war zone is one of the most dangerous periods of a war. Your numbers are down, and your equipment is in transit ,which we published to our enemy, making troops more vulnerable. Vulnerability is what the enemy looks for. That, & command allowing a ridiculous patrol routine to occur, is what created this moment. So maybe instead of an off the cuff announcement, we should have had a well thought out exit strategy coordinated with our allies that would have minimized vulnerability.
1
Generalissimo of interest #1 continued:
These unfortunate brave, courageous, dedicated, hungry warriors were victims of an over-exuberant fireworks celebration of the Fatherlands victory over IsIs.
I will be inviting the families of the victims to the White Slum for a burger and fries celebration of life.
And I alone will pay for the food.
3
Trump said during the campaign that he knew more about ISIS than the Generals. Recently he's said that ISIS has been defeated in Syria, while they still hold territory with reportedly 20-30,000 fighters. He was even ready to leave our Kurdish allies on the battlefield, much more exposed if we left.
It's clear that Trump never gets tired of being wrong, but it seems that his supporters would get fed up with it after a while.
If we pull out now, especially after this attack, ISIS will claim they chased us out and defeated us, much as N Vietnam claimed to have defeated us when we withdrew.
ISIS will probably regain some territory once we leave. We may find it necessary to return, although returning would be much more difficult than staying, and the Kurds won't do the bulk of the fighting again if we'd abandoned them the first time.
It would be nice to have a president with more military experience than disappearing bone spurs, or at least one who listens to the Generals and other experts. But Trump is more focused on shutting down the government over an unneeded wall, just to keep his fan base cheering, and setting up another photo op with Kim.
369
@Mark Miller
It would be nice to have a president with zero military experience and the sense to take direction and advice from all of the experts that he has access to, instead of trying to fake his way through, well, everything.
43
@Mark Miller
And what is the problem for USA if ISIS regain some territory ? Is a caliphate a threat for the USA ? It is the problem of the countries in the region, not the problem of USA and Europe, who are we to say that the islam of isis is bad, but the islam of Saudi arabia is good ?
8
@Mark Miller ... If asked, would you consider Chief of Staff in the White House?
In due course the next president may want to start by admitting the last was an arrogant ignoramous.
Of course, I’m having a fantasy.
A dear friend once said, if you’re going to have a fantasy, have a good one.
2
I agree that we shouldn't be in Syria. But we ARE in Syria, and getting out properly requires great care and attention. The president's assertion that ISIS has been defeated so we can just walk away reminds me of GWB's "Mission Accomplished" photo op as looters were running wild in Iraq.
512
@anita We are in Syria to defend the Kurds. But also the Yazidis who were killed, raped, and enslaved. If that doesn't warrant intervention than what does?
34
@Doug
The only problem with your rationale is, there are so many other countries where this type of brutality exists, countries that need intervention, but we simply don't have enough troops and money -- and geopolitical clout -- to stop it.
At least not on our own.
20
@anita We should be in Syria because Russia is in Syria. I know Trump wants to help Russia out, but Trump won't always be President, and the US will have to clean up behind his mistakes or pay the price.
When we leave an area in turmoil, someone fills the vacuum and we no longer have any say in who that will be or how it plays out. Syria is a strategic concern; ISIS is only part of the situation, and so is the Kurd issue.
25
This is a tragic day for our military and the families of those killed or injured. My sympathy goes out to all of them.
Military experts state that withdrawal timetables and protocols are exceedingly important, since the withdrawal period creates greater risk for troops and equipment absent meticulous planning. Given that Trump has accelerated withdrawal plans from the longer term withdrawal the Pentagon described only last week, before he changed his mind again, and given that equipment withdrawals have already begun, was the accelerated withdrawal plan, to make Trump happy, a factor in this incident? In all fairness, it may not have been; however, his demonstrably false belief that ISIL has already been defeated and his rush to look tough to his base may be factors in this terrible event that need to be investigated and determined.
100
The awful truth is that the threat from terrorism is not going to be defeated anywhere. Now, whether the ultimate good our military presence in Syria can do outweighs the risks is another story. That's a fair question, but not the one from which Trump made his abrupt withdrawal announcement that even his inner circle could not get behind. Let's have that debate, but no more cheap talking points about danger being eliminated.
87
@NM, NY: Esteemed daughter of the Cairene scholar: He refuses to attend security briefings. Fox Snooze is where he gets all the “intelligence” he needs. After all, doesn’t he “know more than my generals?”
19
@NM -- Esteemed daughter of the Cairene scholar:
the president's ill-advised withdrawal from Syria gave ISIS the very oxygen it needed to hang on for dear life. His action can be seen as a major recruiting tool that ISIS used to return to the killing fields. The president now has innocent American blood on his hands.
15
Amen to than NM. Terrorism, by it’s very definition, cannot be beaten or destroyed. It can be controlled, and as you say, that requires a case-by-case analysis of the risk v the reward.
Our president is an idiot to say that ISIS has been beaten. Just like “Mission Accomplished.”
5
But dear Leader said he had destroyed ISIS and we know he would not lie. I bet he will blame it on Hillary's emails.
25
@RichardHead
Or Mexico because they aren't paying for the wall
Or the Democrats since this would not have happened if he was able to build the wall
Or, when he said he destroyed ISIS, he didn't mean that he destroyed ISIS and this is why he needs money for the wall.....
8
@RichardHead, my dyslexia read your first line as “deaf leader,” which is more apropos concerning his generals.
I doubt very much that the readers of NYT (especially those who are posting comments on this article) are even aware of how many countries the US is, or has been, fighting in the past 17 years!
If they were to Google the subject, they would come up with the answer: The US is at war in 7 countries!
Actually, that answer is not entirely correct. We have troops/special forces in 39% of the worlds countries for a total of 76 countries... and even that number isn't entirely accurate because the true number has exceeded 120.
So with Afghanistan... Have we won? What do we have to show for the past 17 plus years?
What war has our country won in the past 20 years?
What war has our country won since World War II?
We really can't say that the Cold War was won... not with Putin making waves. Korean War isn't over. Vietnam was a bust. Panama is a joke as is Grenada - so those don't really count.
How is the war on drugs or war on poverty going?
The fact remains that we just don't have Presidents, Representatives, Senators or Generals who can win wars and haven't for the past 70 years!
Our military, and their equipment, is wore out. Our forces are spread too thin. They are no longer effective and when the confrontation with China/Russia/Iran/North Korea occurs... they will be soundly defeated!
We have wasted money on the F-35, LCS and Ford Class carrier - which have serious flaws, are out-dated and just don't work!
We are not the worlds police!
Time to come home!
15
@The Critic Right, mostly agree here. Suggest add the 'war on illegal immigrants' to this too. Blow that into the Orange Ape's ear.
3
@The Critic The only issue in withdrawing is that our country's press has to put every detail out there for anyone to see. They have no qualms about printing dates, times, number of troops, types of aircraft, etc that are scheduled. This gives the enemy all kinds of opportunities to take out American troops so that they can play it up as them driving the White Devils out of their land.
The US has had military members engaged in hostilities in all but four years in her entire history. The US will always deploy our military in an effort to keep the enemy away from our shores. Some enemies have concerns about soccer moms shooting them in the head since *every American carries a gun.*
What I find seriously ironic is that Trump was castigated for leaving our troops in Syria, when it was Obama who sent them. Then when Trump decides to start bringing them home, the same people are protesting the loudest. It seems like the concern is not about our soldiers, sailors, airmen, & Marines, it is more about how much more Trump-bashing can be had. If Trump were to issue an Executive Order stating that it was necessary to breathe air, fully one half of the country would be dead inside of six munutes.
Our mission in Syria has a serious case of schizophrenia: we are not there to help Assad, but we are helping people who were shooting at us four years ago. Russia coming late to the game did not help matters. That Russia is there to help Assad should have been the first sign to leave.
4
Correction: Towards the end of my post, it should read -
We have wasted money on the F-35, LCS and Ford Class carrier - which have serious flaws, are out-dated and just don't work. Our military, and their equipment, is wore out. Our forces are spread too thin. They are no longer effective and when the confrontation with China/Russia/Iran/North Korea occurs... they will be soundly defeated!
I apologize for any confusion this may have caused!
The most dangerous game you can play is to taunt a clearly undefeated ISiS, this is what you did claiming victory. What will you write to the families that have lost their loved ones. You can’t possibly make this right, you are a complete failure. While the rest of America mourns I’m sure you think there is a way to spin this in your favor.
Resign now.
16
@Dave
A great deal of truth in few words, which could effectively replace the entire comments section. Way to Occam.
Someone needs to alert Pence. An hour after the attack he declared victory over ISIS.
I take no pleasure in any deaths, ever. But I despise the lies that pour out of the Trump administration every day.
34
Sincerest condolences to the victims of this cowardly terrorist attack on a civilian target. American losses will make it tougher for the US to exit Syria. All those who criticized Obama for limiting American involvement in Assad's civil war, ought to be happy now there aren't 50,000 US troops needing to be airlifted out.
6
It must be clear to everyone, especially our enemies that the Trump Administration does not know what it is doing. We are in , we are out, we are in approach isn't working.
5
To politicize the fate of our Troops in Syria is inexcusable.....sadly, that is what Trump’s withdrawal announcement was...
4
“We have won against ISIS,” said president trump.
Can you say “mission accomplished “
6
First POTUS makes twitter based Commander in Chief order withdrawing troops without even telling the troops or the Pentagon. The defense secretary resigns!
Than he makes another announcement that he will devastate Turkey again using twitter without even informing the Secretary of State who was in that region.
So you weakened your armed forces and your diplomatic corps. He emboldened our enemies and angered our allies. The end result brave American troops die. I am not ignoring civilian deaths. All lives are precious.
It is true that Presidents make many decisions that have consequences and you cannot always blame them when troops die. But somehow this feels different. The coarseness of our public debate does not allow us to be united on any issue. We know what is right but we lack the courage to say it lest you might be labeled as either liberal or conservative. It has become increasingly difficult to define what being American means. What are American values? Will we debate that and reestablish them or we debate this is Obama's war or Trump's withdrawal?
109
@SridharC
Rare and invaluable are non-partisan observations such as yours here. You are trying to bring people together, instead of dividing them. Thanks.
6
@SridharC sadly, America is at war with itself. Our elected officials cannot get together to govern the country and the People are so blinded by the partisan media outlets that they cannot see the truth.
I thought Trump was going to be the first President to let the military fight the battles and call him with updates or any requests for support. One has to wonder who advised him to announce withdrawing from Syria? Unless it was a bluff and there are secretly 50,000 troops ready to take out Assad and his chemical weapons. If that means taking out a few Russians at the same time, nobody will hear me complain.
The point here is that politicians need to leave military strategy to those who have attended War College and the command structure that is on the ground where the bullets are flying.
Here is a philosophical question: is it better to surgically remove ISIS members from a country as ISIS continues to kill civilians and that number is going to exceed 30,000? Or is it worse for the US to target a neighborhood or two and simply out ISIS out of our misery and accept a couple of hundred collateral damage deaths? A few to spare the many, or the many to spare the few? Does it really matter whose weapons does the killing?
I ask because about three years ago, the US military faced that very question. Inside sources had 99% of the upper levels of ISIS in one neighborhood. The decision was made not to prosecute. Within 2 months our TV's showed results of another chemical attack.
1
@WillWho In answer to your question who advised him to withdraw your troops from Syria, no one, as POTUS does not (according to himself) need advise. He was ordered to by Putin.
5
Why would Isis do this? Even they can not be this stupid. This was done by forces which does not want US to leave the region.
3
@MT. If you want to understand anything about the Middle East I recommend you stop looking at it through foggy westerner glasses. This is a perfect recruiting tool for ISIS. They kicked us right in the teeth again and the whole world gets to see it. They probably do want us to stay though since we are so inept and in the long run enhance their position, even if we do obtain some short term victories. Our record of stupidity over the last 20 years is unparalleled and unfortunately the smart money is on ISIS, especially given the last couple of years.
1
@MT exactly my point! Why now? Can only be two answers. Either Isis wants to fight against the strongest army in the world, or their masters told to do this attack because the us need to stay to serve some other purpose for some other people than our own Americans!
So, trump and his lickspittle friends like Lindsay Graham felt free to criticize President Obama over announcing troop pull outs, but gosh, can't cross trump....right Lindsay...?
A Strategy of Retreat in Syria, With Echoes of Obama
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/19/us/politics/trump-syria-withdrawal-obama.html
6
So much for mission accomplished.
5
So, who has our back while we abort Syria?
2
@northlander:
Well, thanks to Individual-1, we don't have many allies left. But he, the administration, and his supporters are fine with this—unless it hits them directly.
This must be fake news since President Stable Genius declared that ISIS has been defeated.
14
Pres trump this is your Benghazi. Unless the Democrats are too stupid to be all over it like sauce on BBQ. It's Nero fiddling while our troops burn.
5
Hey we won! trump says so. Therefore this is all fake news. No American troops were killed or injured. It was probably just a bunch of firecrackers.
6
Incredibly, on fox, Rep. Jim Jordan of the Freedom caucus being the bloviating pol and hack that he is, was commenting on how Judicial Watch was going to hold Susan Rice accountable for Benghazi. Truly Incredible indeed.
36
@George Cooper
"United States District Judge Royce Lamberth ruled Tuesday that Judicial Watch can dispose top State Department and White House officials under oath to uncover whether the 2012 Benghazi terror attacks in Libya was a factor in “keeping Mrs. Clinton’s email secret.”
1
The core of ISIS has always been a clandestine organization and it will continue to be one even after the loss of territory. This is a threat which is not going away, no matter the amount of idiotic bluster saying it has been totally defeated. It is an ideology, and will continue to exploit desperate people who live in failed and failing states around the world.
An announced departure and abandonment of our Kurdish allies has only emboldened this clandestine organization to again start coming to the surface.
28
@JM Hopkins O yes, because they are thinking, I am too afraid to do a suicide bombing before Trump declared we are leaving, but now they felt to emboldened to do a suicide bombing after trump declared we are leaving but while we are still there.
"Experts" in washington claim that us leaving will only benefit ISIS. But ISIS is sitting here thinking, the US is about to leave, why dont we attack them for the first time ever since we have been in Syria so that they decide to stay.
An excellent article from the NYT on this subject, emphasizing the allies, especially the Kurds, we are leaving behind:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/28/world/middleeast/syria-kurds-turkey-manbij.html?action=click&module=RelatedCoverage&pgtype=Article®ion=Footer
Turkey wants to destroy them. Assad doesn't like them at all....
7
@RLiss Turks, Arabs, Iranians--None of them like the Kurds. The Kurds are a cursed people who will remain stateless forever, I would say. Far too much at stake for the territorial integrity of Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Iran.
1
Bring them home
6
Can't be ISIS. ISIS was destroyed.Didn't they get the memo?
27
Didn't our Prez tell us we beat ISIS? Isn't our Prez pulling our troops out of Syria since we won?
12
Any excuse to stay in Syria. I was betting on a random ISIS attack or a chemical attack by "Assad".
Those things just tend to happen when Trump announces the US is leaving Syria.
11
But, our illustrious president recently announced that he defeated Isis! Yet more American blood on Trump's filthy hands. consider the parents, spouses and children of the slain service members, who were promised a ticket home soon.
10
@mark, have you met any military families? I am one, I am among many. I can safely say that you are not speaking what any of us believe. We live our lives knowing that moment of each day may be the last of life as we knew it. NONE of us blame the Commander In Chief, not even when it was Obama or Clinton. This is the job that every member of the military signed up to do. You cheapen their deaths and their sacrifices making such vitriolic remarks on their behalf. Such comments are the written equivalent of spitting on their graves. Shame on you!
1
@WillWho The Grand Illusion.
In my opinion, the United States would make a serious error if we evacuated Syria. Holding ISIS aside for the moment, Russia has defintiely enhanced its position in the region over the past several years. Is it really wise to simply concede to them their gains? Aside from the Mediterranean itself, won't that affect Russian calculations (and those of all of our other strategic competitors and allies) everywhere else in the world? Further, if you really want to be realpolitik about it, couldn't the US tie down the Russians there, bleeding them of resources, overburdening an already shaky economy?
I realize that this sort of thinking is pretty calloused, at least at first glance. But the fact of the matter is that the US risks further destabilization by retreat, and that promises a bloody human cost. And not just in Syria, but in Iraq, the Ukraine and who the heck knows where else? As has been pointed out in another post, just as nature abhors a vacuum, so does history, and as harmfully as the US has behaved in the past, compared to others in this region we're still more or less the good guys. Leaving the field to the Russians, Assad, the Turks and revanchist Sunnis promises a harvest of human tragedy. I don't see how any calculation of strategic advantage gets around that possibility.
7
My condolences to the families of the Americans killed today. For today, all else is irrelevant.
18
The question now is, will Trump follow the advice of his generals or follow Vladimir Putin's wishes for the US to leave Syria. This should be interesting.
6
Too bad our ready-shoot-aim free-associating President had to say ISIS was defeated. Big mistake, and now US citizens are dead.
11
Perhaps I’m just a bit dense, but how can an extremist ideology, that has no fixed geographic locality, ever actually be defeated?
The wanton disregard for the lives of American armed forces is appalling, no matter whose political country club may be leading the charge.
11
Premature to have declared victory over ISIS.
6
Cui bono?
The only country that benefits from this terror attack is the one that wants to keep us ensnared in Syria.
One guess...
5
Can one even imagine the screeches for impeachment from FOX News if Obama had ordered the withdrawal last month?
17
@Romeo Salta, yeup. No screeches at all. Obama was not in office last month. Welcome to 2019.
You mean, we didn't vanquish ISIS?
9
Vice President Pence,
It appears that ISIS continues to "rear it's ugly head" in Syria. How many more American troops and civilian lives should be taken before you and the rest of the White House administration are willing to acknowledge that?
9
Rebecca Wagner@ suggestions on what should be done would be more helpful than your comment!
@Karen We can't even begin a rational conversation when Trump and Pence willfully lie and distort. The endless falsehoods are an integral part of the problem and can't be blithely dismissed.
Mission Accomplished, Trump?
9
This shows what a lie Trump's reason for leaving Syria was. That ISIS had been defeated. And just a day ago, Kenya. Can't wait to hear his lies now on this subject. He still is not conceding defeat on the wall...keep it up thinking Americans. He does not deserve to have one success while in office. Each day is another "fake news" report from his lips or those of his subservient few.
4
@JHM at least from the kneeling socialists on the other side of the issues. You guys blame Trump for everything. He just issued an Executive Order that all of his Americans must breathe air to live.
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In six minutes there will no Democrats left alive.
Trump made a foolish move, ISIS replied with deadly intelligence. What next Trump? Blame it all on Pence perhaps? Or Bolton?
10
Max duPont,
He'll blame the generals like he did when troops were killed in Africa.
4
My heart goes out to the families of the victims. Very very sad, but in a way also somewhat predictable, at least that some provocation would occur given the pattern between announcements and attacks of one sort or another. The public and policymakers are being played like a fiddle, possibly by hostile actors or even supposed friends, and the very real costs are measured in lives. How do we break this cycle of manipulation and reflexive reaction?
2
The chaos that Trump has created is destroying every single layer of our multi-leveled foundation. It isn't just about a threat to democracy any longer. It is about the carefully planned deconstruction of the United States of America that originated and is now being successfully orchestrated by none other than Putin. Russia is winning. Russia is winning. Russia is winning.
7
Wondering if anyone has showed this piece to Trump?
Or does it have to be run by Putin first so that it contains the message for how "Trump the lackey", "Trump the White House Russian" agent should respond?
Because we all know that Trump does not trust this type of information from his "Generals".
6
Was this horrific bombing provoked by the "lying loose lips" of the Fake President, with ISIS defiantly making a statement that they have not been "defeated"? Will this just be the beginning of a violent bombing campaign by it, specifically targeting our armed forces in Syria?
8
Strong words and hand waving actions are easy but have potential dire consequences: Human lives, misuse of American Military, putting American foreign policy and world standing at risk.
And for what? So someone can grandstand and make them feel like he is the most important person in the world?
That's not a leader, that's a coward.
5
If President Awesome was so tough, he’d go to Congress for a decoration of war in Syria and make this shadow war a real one. But he won’t. He’s a coward. And so is every Republican in Congress. They can’t even pay America’s bills on time, there’s no way they’ll be able to wage a war. Armchair cowboys, all of them.
7
You might say Trump and McConnell are obstructing justice on several fronts. Is that really OK? DJM
3
Wasn't ISIS supposed to be defeated? This is a strike against Trump, to poke at him. Wonder what will happen now, he tend to dislike people making fun of him.
3
Another foreign civil war that America should have no part in.
4
Remember a President in a flight suit (one who somehow missed combat operations in Vietnam) saying, "Major combat operations in Iraq have ended...the United States...has prevailed." This speech was given under a Mission Accomplished banner on the deck of the aircraft carrier U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln in April 2003 before a decade of insurgent operations against the U.S. in Iraq killed over 4000 U.S. soldiers. We still have 5000 troops in Iraq. The attack on the U.S. military in Syria yesterday and the deaths of those soldiers can be laid directly at the feet of a President who should have never gloated, should never have encouraged (for his own base political glory) the enemy to prove that they are not defeated. But, then, what does he care..do you?
4
It is critical to profile, isolate and kill a virus. ISIS is a virus and it is foolish to think that a virus won't try to reinfect its host if we leave part of it alive. General Mattis is likely sick to his stomach about the direction this is taking.
4
These deaths are at the feet of John Bolton and Trump's indecisiveness.
4
President Trump is to blame for the death of these soldiers. For being so Narcissistic claiming the U.S. had defeated the enemy and it was time for the soldiers to come home. Local militia had to prove they were well alive.
2
Another sad day.
Not to make light of it, but this tragedy has proved once again that Mr. Trump does not know more than "his" generals, he has failed to follow his own advice by announcing military plans in advance, and that he is simply unprepared, uneducated, and undisciplined when it comes to matters for which his is responsible as commander in chief. ISIS is not defeated and will never be defeated as long as the US remains an aggressive force in the region and the world.
2
I remember a time a couple years ago within these NYT comments when I was calling for the US to boldly ramp up it's military assault against ISIS to destroy their caliphate and to deliver to them a humiliating defeat. At the time, the vast majority of the commenters here were loudly scoffing at such a suggestion, believing that military action would be brash and unnecessary and that the US shouldn't be in Syria at all. Fortunately, the US did indeed destroy much of the caliphate and destroy much of ISIS, not entirely of course but mostly. ISIS terrorist attacks have gone down and their ability to recruit has been much diminished... I do not know why Trump has so suddenly decided to withdraw the troops now, when they should most definitely remain to keep what little is left of ISIS at bay. I fully agree with the many commenters here who are criticizing Trump for a very bad decision. However I do find it ironic and telling that many of these regular commenters criticizing the decision to leave Syria were the same ones who were criticizing the US presence in Syria to begin with. They are not consistent with their own purported beliefs about US strategy. Mostly they are just consistent with a desire to criticize Trump for anything he does. Trump, of course, deserves much criticism. However criticism runs hollow when it is contradictory with previous criticism. Either you believe that the US military should be in Syria destroying ISIS or you don't....
First, my deepest sympathies to those injured and to the families of those killed.
If ISIS is indeed responsible, shame on Individual-1. One with half a brain could see that him saying we're pulling out would cause problems. Oh, and, I thought ISIS was defeated. What about that Trump and Pence?
2
Baghdad Bob Sanders continued:
Unfortunately several of our strong handsome valiant courageous soldiers without bone spurs were killed in an over exuberant victory celebration of the fatherland victory over IsIs.
Generalissimo #1will be inviting the families of the victims to the White Palace for burgers and fries.
4
Time for the US and whatever allies it has to get out of all those hellholes in the Middle East. All that most of these countries know are fighting and death, and hatred for each other. Let them kill themselves, and when oil is needed by the USA, then go in and fight in whatever country is blocking oil shipments!
2
I don't think the most left, or right, of us oppose withdrawal absolutely The question is how we minimize the harm, or perhaps even maximize the benefit. Surely this was an ill considered war. We who oppose unconditional withdrawal don't necessarily oppose withdrawal at all. But it is certainly ill considered to withdraw without offering to make amends for our invasion. Perhaps we could withdraw while air dropping food, supplies, water, and medical equipment over a sustained period of time. But just invade and withdraw? That must be the most ill considered of all.
3
Whether our troops stay in Syria (or elsewhere) is a legitimate matter for discussion. And if it’s decided that the troops pull out, it should be done carefully, with planning, and with the full inclusion of our allies (by that I don’t mean Putin). And above all, a sane and prudent President does not make claims that can so easily be proven absurd, the more so when lives are at stake. I am ashamed to call those neighbors who support him Americans.
23
@Dagwood
Hey, I do not see you serving in Syria.
How about you go there, and tell us how 'it should be done carefully, with planning, and with the full inclusion of our allies (by that I don’t mean Putin)'
Chances are you will be asking to be shipped home today.
1
There is a way for WE THE PEOPLE to show our contempt for The Con Don and his corrupt, destructive cooperation with Putin.
The third annual "Women's March" is scheduled for this Saturday, January 19, in cities and towns across OUR United States of America and the world.
The link with information is below. Scroll down on the page to the "sister marches" to find a march near you. The media has not promoted the march - again - but it's one of the most important ways to show our contempt for The Con Don, his shutdown of OUR government and his corruption. All people may participate - it's not for women only. Every government employee and every military person - and their family members - should join the march to say NO. No more shutdown. NO WW3.
Please, Good People, help get the word out and let's march in numbers never seen before. Take a sign that supports your main concern. Let's show the world what really makes America great. WE THE PEOPLE.
NOW IS THE TIME FOR ALL GOOD PEOPLE TO STAND UP FOR OUR COUNTRY.
https://actionnetwork.org/events/womensmarch2019
15
Doesn't ISIS claim responsibility for all or almost all attacks on it's foes - whether or not it is true?
If, as the article states, this city was considered stable and safe how is ISIS involvement determined?
4
We all knew US military draw downs in Syria would result in a resurgent ISIS. Even mentioning US withdrawal is a huge PR victory for them. I'm sure ISIS morale is sky high right now.
What I'm wondering is why ISIS would choose to target US personnel at this exact moment. The US President is desperately attempting to convince everyone ISIS is neutralized. ISIS goes and blows up US soldiers. If there is better way to slow down a US defeat in Syria, please enlighten me.
Maybe ISIS is just trying to stick Trump's surrender in his face. The attack could be part of an internal propaganda campaign so to speak. However, demonstrating Trump's foreign policy blunders around the world with dead US bodies isn't helping ISIS. US war hawks are now vindicated. ISIS just painted a huge target on themselves. The US soldiers won't be going anywhere for awhile now.
Tactical victory, strategic defeat.
5
@Andy
Well it may not be isis but anyone of these could be the culprit: Turkey, Syria/Russia/Iran.
Turkish spox Ibrahim Kalin threatened US for committing a “fatal mistake” only a few days ago. And they probably calculated that these casualities will speed up rather than hinder the US pullout.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.dailysabah.com/diplomacy/2019/01/14/equating-syrian-kurds-with-terrorists-deadly-mistake-presidential-spokesman-kalin-says/amp
There are so many parties involved in Syria, with so many motives, u could be very hard to determine who exactly was behind this attack and to what benefit. This may not necessarily be an ISIS led attack.
2
@Firat: It could also be the Kurds; after all they have a vested interest in prolonging the stay of American forces in Northern Syria, and such an attack blamed on ISIS might be hoped to perhaps persuade some U.S. military commanders that ISIS is still a threat in the region.
The Manbij Military Council, a group allied with the US-backed Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) still has control of the city of Manbij, and more than 80% of the SDF is composed of Kurds.
Aren’t there FCC regulations prohibiting the broadcast of knowingly false or misleading information? Why do we have to wait for a “fact-check” to know the truth on anything this president utters? On this basis alone, networks should deny access. Let his favorite outlets cover it; the place he sits on, Twitter, and FOX NEWS.
7
More deaths of US service-people?
But what are they dying for? What is their mission? What sort of strategy is there for eventually bringing them home?
Aren't those questions for which they have a right to answers?
8
@NYer, I don't mean to sound dismissive of your sentiment; however, anyone enlisted in the military today does so voluntarily. Therefore, we must assume that they understand the risks of working in very dangerous places and will do what they are told to do without question. And since when have Americans been concerned with the "purpose of missions" in recent years? Americans love believe our military is always doing the right thing, even if they aren't.
5
@NYer
They died because the GOP and their Sycophants sold us the notion of Killing Them There, rather than fighting them here.....and then backed out, giving ISIS the impetus to attack.
And we see "president" Bone Spur (as installed by Putin) would *never* put himself in their shoes.....
4
I don't care much for Trump, but I do care about our sons and daughters who should no longer be asked to risk their lives in places like Syria and Afghanistan after 17 years of fighting with no end in sight. And all those two-bit politicians and NY Times armchair-quarterback readers who commented against Trump's proposed 30-day withdrawal using lame excuses such as defending the Kurds or losing leverage in some nebulous future negotiation with the Taliban (which they have refused to engage in until all American forces leave) so as to be able to attack the President for political reasons should be ashamed.
Since it has not yet been thirty days following Trump's initial withdrawal announcement, perhaps it would not have mattered in the case of the two men killed in this attack; but starting in another week the blood of all American soldiers killed or wounded in either of those theaters is going to be on the hands of those who have asked for a delay in the return of our troops back home.
6
@EMIP:
do you not remember the gassing of Kurd civilians?
It is not a "lame excuse"....complex ethnic/ religious webs over there. Should we abandon the Kurds to be slaughtered? As we did the Hmong tribesmen who helped us in VietNam?
1
@RLiss: I happen to be of the Vietnam war generation and still have my Selective Service Registration card (I was not one of those who burned it). We evacuated as many South Vietnamese as we could, but the circumstances did not allow us to evacuate everyone.
As far as our alliance with the Kurds, it was a transactional one. The Kurds had every reason to have battled ISIS because ISIS had also invaded Kurdish towns and villages. All we promised the Kurds was to assist them by providing arms, training, ground and air support. All of which we did. We never promised to assist them in nation-building or forming an autonomous region within Syria. If they wish to live in peace and avoid a conflict with Turkey upon withdrawal of our forces, then the PYD/YPG in Northern Syria should break their ties with the PKK terrorist organization involved in attacking the Turks and withdraw from the non-Kurdish regions they occupied while fighting ISIS.
If you are interested for an impartial assessment of some of the unlawful acts by the Kurds, I suggest you read the Human Rights Watch report entitled "Under Kurdish Rule: Abuses in PYD-run Enclaves of Syria" detailing Kurdish war crimes in the ethnic cleansing of Arabs and Turcomans from their villages and lands, the harassment and arbitrary arrests of the PYD’s Kurdish political rivals, extraction of confessions using torture, use of child soldiers, etc.: https://www.hrw.org/report/2014/06/19/under-kurdish-rule/abuses-pyd-run-enclaves-syria
2
@RLiss: I happen to be of the Vietnam war generation and still have my Selective Service Registration card (I was not one of those who burned it). We evacuated as many South Vietnamese as we could, but the circumstances did not allow us to evacuate everyone.
As far as our alliance with the Kurds, it was a transactional one. The Kurds had every reason to have battled ISIS because ISIS had also invaded Kurdish towns and villages. All we promised the Kurds was to assist them by providing arms, training, ground and air support. All of which we did. We never promised to assist them in nation-building or forming an autonomous region within Syria. If they wish to live in peace and avoid a conflict with Turkey upon withdrawal of our forces, then the PYD/YPG in Northern Syria should break their ties with the PKK terrorist organization involved in attacking the Turks and withdraw from the non-Kurdish regions they occupied while fighting ISIS.
If you are interested for an impartial assessment of some of the unlawful acts by the Kurds, I suggest you read the Human Rights Watch report entitled "Under Kurdish Rule: Abuses in PYD-run Enclaves of Syria" detailing Kurdish war crimes in the ethnic cleansing of Arabs and Turcomans from their villages and lands, the harassment and arbitrary arrests of the PYD’s Kurdish political rivals, extraction of confessions using torture, use of child soldiers, etc.:
https://www.hrw.org/report/2014/06/19/under-kurdish-rule/abuses-pyd-run-enclaves-syria
This is no time for levity.
But it wouldn't surprise us if the preposterous US president didn't somehow pin the blame for this tragedy on Democrats - Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, or even President Obama.
10
@AG
Obama sent those soldiers.
Why? ask him.
Obama is the same guy who sold the Saudi's the weapons to commit crimes against humanity in Yemen and Sudan.
But somehow you liberals think he's a kind man.
The President said bring them home, the democrats complained and said now. and now more soldiers are dead.
But what do you care, it was not your country men dead in that city today.
1
The idea we should have troops every place someone is capable of a suicide bombing is ridiculous.
If anything, this is reminiscent of the Marines killed in Beirut in 1983, of which it was said there were too few troops there to achieve anything and far too many there to die as targets.
Time to get out
5
@Jack Rhodes:
"The idea we should have troops every place someone is capable of a suicide bomb is ridiculous".....like, oh, Paris and New York?
This could not have been the Islamic state, because our president only very recently told us that ISIS had been defeated. He also assured us that he knows better than the generals.
16
@Religionistherootofallevil
The (russian installed) "president" also said Mexico would pay for the wall....believe me.
2
Trump will closely monitor the situation in Syria which means he will consult with FOXNEWS/STATE TV to find out what to tweet. Professional military and intel advice is not sought as they are the deep state. THe problem with having an ignorant erratic president anxious to please Putin to save his presidency will continue to present crises one after another as chaos is Trump's favorite state of affairs.
6
“I thought the threat of ISIS has been contained in Syria.”
Let’s bring our troops home quickly, regardless of how “contained” that threat is. Maybe then we wouldn’t have to lose another of our compatriots.
5
Neocons get played like fiddles, certainly Reagan (Lebanon) W & Cheney et al were. This attack is to hasten Trump’s disastrous withdrawal in case he’s wavering.
2
ISIS. Umm...Weren’t they defeated? How could they still be killing people, including US troops? Trump adds to his never-ending lies with a “Mission Accomplished” pat on his own back. Trump, Bolton, Pompeo, Graham, Erdogan, Putin...who exactly is running the show? Looks like nobody is running the show. Guess that’s what happens when the president is utterly clueless and the buck stops everywhere (and nowhere).
11
At a certain point in the circus, the clown is no longer funny. It often happens when his teasing becomes bullying.
4
Trump's ignorance and impulsiveness along with his unwillingness to listen to people who are far more experienced with foreign policy is putting troops (and the entire world for that matter) in danger.
Erroneously announcing that ISIS has been defeated in Syria has only emboldened them to attack our military. And Pence is equally reckless to repeat this today.
9
@L- Pence is a puppet, nothing more.
1
Debbie,
Pence is a lapdog. Trump is the puppet. :-)
1
Apparently, many of the commenters don't realize that: (1) the American presence in Syria is illegal as it is a flagrant violation of International Law, (2) that presence was initiated not by President Trump, but by President Obama, or (3) that former Obama Secretary of State Kerry is on tape admitting that the Administration watched ISIS grow and thought it could destabilize the Syrian government (also noting that Russia intervened in support of the government).
Essentially, ISIS became a threat to the region because Obama pulled US troops out of Iraq. But just as critical to its growth was the fact that Obama was actively supporting other Islamist/jihadi factions in western Syria. Those factions, including the al-Qaeda allied al Nusra Front, were a much greater existential threat to Syria than ISIS.
38
@Mark:
just checking....so essentially EVERYTHING wrong in the world is the fault of Obama? OK, thanks for setting us straight on that.
49
@Mark
Apparently you don't realize it was GW Bush who pulled the troops out of Iraq:
"On 13 September 2007, President Bush announced that the 168,000 American troops in Iraq at that time would be reduced by 5,700 by Christmas and that additional troops would be withdrawn bringing the total U.S. troop level down from 20 to 15 combat brigades by July 2008."
After that pull out it lead to the Sunni terror group al Qaeda in Iraq to eventually morph into ISIS.
46
@Mark
All the major cities (including Damascus) are in western Syria. The Syrian Arab Army was forced to pull back to protect those cities, leaving ISIS pretty much unchallenged in eastern Syria. So essentially the actions of the US and its regional allies created conditions on the ground in western Syria that allowed ISIS to control much of eastern Syria. It was ONLY when ISIS broke out of its cocoon in June 2014, and started capturing major cities in Iraq (and threatening to take Baghdad), did the Obama Administration begin its half-hearted campaign against ISIS.
If the US leaves Syria now---and it should---you can bet that the Syrian and Iraqi armies, along with their allies, will extinguish ISIS for good.
10
The possibility that the government shutdown is simply a distraction ought to be considered. Media has suggested that Trump is trying to distract from all the investigations that are going on. That may be a side benefit.
But, perhaps, the purpose of the distraction is to keep Congressional attention from the loss of our international prestige, the Brexit debacle, the threats to withdraw from NATO. In short, the shutdown permits Trump to do Putin's bidding without attracting too much attention. Look at the sad state of federal employees standing in food bank lines, it's awful. We are distracted ... Putin smiles.
53
Mitch McConnell is also funded by Chinese shipping and bank interests, as well as Putins oligarch Deripaska. He has gone way out of his way to obstruct any form of justice or investigation.
4
Some of the `anti-Assad' forces backed by Turkey are openly jihadist and could also be responsible for the blast.
6
It was not a smart thing--but it was typical of our president's chaotic changing policies--to declare the war against ISIS to be over---echoes of "Mission Accomplished". It probably emboldened ISIS to show that it was still a force to be reckoned with. Mr. Trump. we desperately want our boys to come home again--but not in caskets. Your ill-planned foreign policies do not weaken enemies such as Russia and ISIS. The only country you are weakening substantially is the U.S.A.
101
@shimr
The need for military operations against the ISIS army has ended. The need for anti-terrorist operations will endure for generations. The Bush administration warned us that the War Against Terrorism would last generations, but the American public has grown tired of the "Forever War." This is why we withdrew forces from Iraq.
1
My condolences to the friends and families of the victims plus hopes for speedy recovery for the injured. At this point we don't know if US personnel were the target or collateral damage, but, regardless, innocents were no doubt killed by a malignant ideology that's far from defeated.
Our forces can be effective enablers of peace and stability (or do the necessary war fighting), but they need to be properly used and then backed up by stable leadership and a coherent diplomatic and military strategy. Sadly, during the Trump presidency we can't be assured our troops are appropriately deployed and supported. That substantially increases their risks and more likely wastes their efforts.
The status of our current presidential leadership is highly uncertain. Virtually no evidence supports the premise that Trump is thoughtful or informed, or that he has a competent team integrated into his decision making. In fact, there are serious questions whether he is improperly influenced by leaders in Russia, Saudi Arabia, or Israel, or just willful and impetuous.
Curiously, Trump's words and actions almost always align with Putin's wish list. He goes out of his way to parrot Kremlin talking points and hide his interactions with Putin. That can't be an accident. Whether Trump is just incompetent or a wholly owned subsidiary of Russia is the real national security crisis. Not some stupid border wall.
82
@Michael Tyndall
Trump campaigned and won on promises to end the "Forever Wars." Americans grew tied of nation building in Vietnam and Iraq. whey should Syria and Afghanistan be different.
@Michael Tyndall
Give me ONE example of where the US military has been an "effective enabler of peace and stability" in the Middle East. ONE. I'll wait.
1
@Charles
Very fair point, at least regarding numerous particular failures in places like Iraq II and mindless support for right wing Israeli policies. Our military deployments and diplomatic involvement have been most successful in Europe and the Far East (with a major, major stumble in Viet Nam).
The Middle East is full of failures but it can be argued things might have been far worse if we did not have a major presence there after WWII. For better or worse, oil has been an essential ingredient of the world economy for generations, requiring a stable supply. Malign powers would have filled a vacuum without the US and quite probably have enabled even more murderous tribal rivalries. And once committed, our abrupt and unplanned withdrawals can easily create instability and yet more violence.
There are no easy or black and white answers in the Middle East. Sober, intelligent, informed leadership is required just to avoid the worst outcomes. Trump is the antithesis of adequate leadership.
2
Seems we’re having another “Mission Accomplished” moment.
History does repeat itself!
38
@Philosopher Well, Bone Spurs has claimed he knows more than the generals. It appears at this point in time he didn't.
My condolences to the families of those lost.
2
"First as tragedy...then as farce." K.Marx
The dereliction of duty of this so-called “commander in chief" known as Trump, is profound.
He’s a loose cannon who has no idea what he’s doing or what he’s jabbering about one minute to the next.
58
It is a risky bet. By targetting Americans ISIS probably want to support Trump's opinion that the US should retreat. It might backfire by demonstrating that ISIS are not defeated and that US troups should stay in Syria until they are. Let's see what your unpredictable President's next tweet says.
4
It’s true that Trump is a chicken. He might very well pull out all of the US troops immediately. But Trump is also easily swayed, so he will make a decision based on what the last trusted person he talked to suggested. Lets just hope that wasn’t Putin.
2
@Martini:
more likely he'll make any decisions based on what Fox news tells him.
1
ISIS is defeated; Mexico will pay for a wall; North Korea has disarmed; jobs have come back to America; laid-off federal employees support the shutdown; we have a beautiful new healthcare plan; there was no collusion; I hardly knew Paul Manafort; Mueller and Comey are dirty cops; we've been harder on Russia than anyone (even though the administration fought sanctions imposed by Congress); I know more than all the generals and intelligence agencies; Putin told me he didn't interfere in the 2016 election; and on and on and on...
Obviously, the most logical scenario is that everything negative reported is part of a vast conspiracy between liberal media elites and Democratic operatives working for the deep state. Yeah, that's got to be it.
244
@jrinsc
Clinton did it.
3
In Trump’s world, we should be focused on Hillary and her emails. Nothing else matters v
2
"We have defeated ISIS in Syria." Wrong yet again, Mr. President. Here's an idea: how about leaving military policy to the military experts in the field, rather than commanding from Twitter.
14
Hm. Guess ISIS isn't defeated, Mr. Trump. Sadly, everyone will believe everything they hear. As per usual.
8
I thought ISIS had been defeated? Nothing inspires confidence more than a Commander in Chief who simply cannot tell the truth!
19
There is video of the explosion; Trump will never watch it. He is too "strong" a "man" to watch it. Weakest "president" we have ever had. Go ahead; GOP ; keep backing this "leader". Ray Sipe
17
ISIS has already been re-emboldened, and we haven't even left yet.
Duh.
8
According to the President Isis has been defeated. I guess someone forgot to give that message to Isis.
10
"We have defeated ISIS in Syria, my only reason for being there during the Trump Presidency."
-Donald J Trump, 19 Dec 2018
12
@Randall Was he having dinner when he made the statement as he did when others were lost on his watch?
1
These slain American soldiers would be on Trump's conscience -- if only he had one. He just old us that war was solved. Time for our troops to come home.
11
@Jim Steinberg You are right about his lack of conscience, but wrong about why this has happened. The terrorists there named ISIS are emboldened by our leaving. And this is why we should NOT be leaving. 2 = 2 = 4.
2
Part of the reason for having troops in Syria is to defeat ISIS, so let's make sure our Soldiers deaths are not in vain. If we are withdrawing our troops let's make sure there is a plan to complete the mission.
Does anyone know what that plan is?
12
@Martin
Are you joking? Trump planning?
9
So to make sure the troops deaths aren’t in vain we spend more time and more deaths fighting an enemy that the SSA, Iran, Hezbollah, and with Russian Air support could easily do?
5
@Jean-Paul Marat who do you think the enemy of isis or for that matter Russia is? Could it be the USA?
Just more evidence that Trump should not rule based on the desires of Erdogan.
16
@Anthony Just more evidence that Trump should not rule; should not "serve" as president of the United States.
30
@Jim Steinberg Yep, Trump should "serve" given that a presidents job is to uphold the laws of the US. But, let's be real, the modern presidency, especially Trump's, is about ruling like a dictator. If it's not the president himself, as in the case of Bush 43, it's his psycho VP or cabinet members. The current Senate Majority leader has made it worse by giving all power to the president and the executive branch in the name of GOP donors. Insane. It is further insane the Trump's gets his orders from Putin and Erdogan.
1
Who is waiting for Jared Kushner to volunteer to lead a boots-on-the-ground frontline assault against ISIS forces so recently defeated in Syria?
123
"From a distance the world looks blue and green
And the snow capped mountains white
From a distance the ocean meets the stream
And the eagle takes to flight
From a distance there is harmony
And it echoes through the land
It's the voice of hope
It's the voice of peace
It's the voice of every man
From a distance we all have enough
And no one is in need
And there are no guns, no bombs and no disease
No hungry mouths to feed
From a distance we are instruments
Marching in a common band
Playing songs of hope
Playing songs of peace
They are the songs of every man
From a distance you look like my friend
Even though we are at war
From a distance I just cannot comprehend
What all this fightings for"
7
I'm not one of those conspiracy theorists out there but this one here doesn't make any sense to me.
Why would ISIS attack US soldiers when the US is on the verge of withdrawing its troops.? The death of ISIS is the reason Trump gave for his decision to withdraw. An ISIS attack against US soldiers undercut that argument.
ISIS has no interest in the US keeping troops in Syria.
12
ISIS wants to ensure that the World knows that 1. The United States has not and will not beat them and 2. They are initiating a new recruitment drive that pales in comparison to what they did in 2000-2010. Trump has kicked the beehive this time, and it will sting.
9
The goal of ISIS is to kill Americans. Period. They don’t have a military strategy. Clearly they saw a vulnerability and took advantage of it. Frankly I’m surprised they haven’t done it more often all over the world, given the chaos and lack of leadership in our current administration.
5
@Chaks
Maybe ISIS is giving one last good kick in the behind as the US crawls away?
(Of course, we could go the other way, by asking, if trump stuck to his timetable - would these guys still be alive today? Remember, we don't tell the enemy, our plans.)
RIP
2
"There's nobody bigger or better at the military than I am."
Guess who?
43
Lets get the troops out before more are killed. To quote John Kerry
"How do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Vietnam? How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?"
Trump's inclination to get out of the Middle East is correct.
15
The US has been quite successful in helping diminish the power of ISIS in Syria. In short time and with minimal boots on the ground, as well as minimal casualties. We should bring home the troops but in a strategic manner and when we have finished our mission. We are so close! Comparing Syria to Vietnam is reactionary and ill informed.
24
This is horrible news. "ISIS has been defeated," contends Trump. It appears, like virtually everything else in domestic and foreign policy, Trump was horrendously wrong.
31
@H. Clark Because Mr. Trump scapegoats and blames others and can never admit he's wrong or has made a mistake, he never can learn or grow or improve. Mistakes are how the majority of us learn and how the majority of other presidents have learned to do better. Thus, as a result, of being unable to say "the buck stops here" Mr. Trump will continue causing mayhem in one form or another.
2
I thought that we had finished ISIS in Syria. The POTUS told us. Well, we said "mission accomplished " and since POTUS said it, it must be truth. /s
5
I seem to remember Trump saying during his campaign that he would never tell the enemy what he would be doing.
I guess that was just another of the thousands of lies to come out of his mouth.
48
And the president and republicans have been telling us ISIS has been defeated.
6
But, didn't the President say that ISIS was defeated?? /smh
4
We need to stay in Syria so we can have more casualties.
9
Will this be Trumpanov's "Benghazi"?
6
Expected provocation by Western neocons to keep US military in Syria!! Another Western neocon false flag!!
4
And let the conspiracy theories begin!
Did we also fake the moon landing?
and yet people are dumbfounded how this happens again and again and again and again and again or "why" isis would do this. I just cant figure it out. seriously?
1. this was about their last chance to make headlines. -thats all they got. we've so utterly destroyed and virtually obliterated all that they have and all that they've done that they have to pull an orange attention trollop stunt to get ink (or electrons). without that, they're what they really are -a bunch of unemployed ex-saddam murderers basically waiting to die in the next drone strike.
2. and while I hate everything about the unindicted orange co-conspirator, getting us out of these blank-holes is right. if we arent there on the ground they cant attack us. if they cant attack, they get no headlines. if they get no headlines they die the inevitable death of a nihlistic organization that is for nothing and against everything.
3. they can no longer win hearts and minds of 3rd world kids who know nothing but misery of war brought to them live and in color by armed US soldiers walking down the streets of their town and killing people they know, many bad ones, but also alot of innocents. and do you for one microsecond those experiences dont want to make kids strap a bomb to their bellies and die? if you think not then answer me what you think US citizens reactions would be to seeing armed foreign troops walking down their streets every morning. yea, thats right, thats exactly what it'd be.
3
This is a tragedy for the families and loved ones of the victims, my sincere condolences on your loss.
IS will always fill a vacuum, wherever they find one and rather obviously, IS have not been defeated in Syria. Mr Putin has a rather obvious agenda for involving Russia in the conflict: the deep sea port of Tartus, arms sales and a presence in the region. If / when US troops leave, the Kurdish militia will be in a very vulnerable position.
7
On December 20, President Trump declared that ISIS had been defeated in Syria. Perhaps it is time for him to define what he means by "defeated."
16
All these comments criticizing Trump as if he invaded Syria. To all those saying we should stay, tell us, what strategic value does keeping troops in Syria have. Syria is a failed state. It is clear that some of the people just want to oppose anything that is said or done by Trump at the expense of the troops or country.
7
This is a very interesting way of glossing over the fact that the criticism relates to a decision based on his exaggeration/lie that ISIS was defeated, a claim now followed by deaths of multiple people, including some from the group you wrap this comment in as moral defense.
2
@Mark
I support getting out of Syria. I don't support Trump lying about the IS status in Syria. People oppose Trump because he can't be trusted with the truth.
5
@Mark
Strategic value:
1) deny ISIS a stronghold from which they can launch attacks against the US and/or US citizens abroad
2) deny Russia and Iran expanded influence in the region
3) protect an ISIS-fighting Kurdish ally (thus enhancing the value of being a US ally)
I agree there is nothing in the failed state Syria that the US wants. However, the US does not exist in isolation. Global forces do impact the US. Is it more strategic to influence global forces or to abdicate that to our adversaries?
1
Mr. Trump, I don't think we heard you. What did you say? Did you boast that ISIS was defeated therefore you were bringing our military home? This was of course against the advice of career military. One can only imagine what American generals, those you have summarily dismissed, ignored or ridiculed, think about this tragic situation right now.
Mr. Trump, you are completely unfit to be President.
38
The conflict is intractable, and the U.S. has never been in a strong position.
However, Trump's reckless decisions set our troop up for this.
Their blood is Trump's hands and bone spurs.
19
In my sadness and equal disgust, I recall what our POTUS said just a few weeks ago in his misguided, empty statement that;"Our Troops can come home now.We won the war on ISIS".
I wonder how the families of those taken feel about that at this moment.
Careers as Counselors and law enforcement officers require psychological testing and updating for candidates who apply. Why not a Presidential Candidate. I guarantee this current one would not meet qualifications. Someone has to take charge.
7
The tragic loss of the lives of American troops in Syria points up the foolishness of Donald Trump’s announced pullout and his “mission accomplished’ proclamation of victory over the Islamic State.
Whatever one’s view of American policy in the area, we should be unified in our sadness over the loss of young lives and the heartbreak of the families.
That being said, Donald Trump’s close advisors are probably figuring out a way to blame Democrats or to urge that the bombing underscores the need for a wall along the Mexican border or that it shows why America should get closer to Russia in the interests of our national security.
3
The tragic loss is a sign of foolishness to invade the other countries. And this sin is not of Trump, but of American politicians in both parties who support such invasions, and then shed the crocodile tears about poor American soldiers who got killed in these invasions.
2
@yulia
As I wrote, “Whatever one’s view of American policy in the area ...” I agree that all American politicians who urge invasions deserve blame, but Donald Trump is particularly at fault because (1) he claims to know more than all of the generals, and (2) he has no use for diplomacy by experts seeking peaceful resolution of disputes.
The phenomenon of the gated community represents how the West views itself. Although most urban planners now eschew the model as repugnant, divisive, classist, and to be utterly avoided, those that are already built stand testament to a recent history best learned from but not repeated.
America and Britain built the gated community that encompasses the west, deliberately setting fire to the hinterlands beyond the walls, allowing them to rage out of control. The flames spread to Syria from Iraq and Afghanistan.
To abandon their role in Syria’s holocaust would be to abrogate morality yet again, although morality has hardly been a priority to date. Trump’s vision, like all of his visions, is superficial and insouciant to reality: the United States cannot leave the Middle East. It has now become part of America and its culpable allies.
Trump is bequeathing Syria to Russia, hardly a surprise given his Cyrillic affinities, and a new, hostile, power bloc will emerge.
3
I missed the logic. How does building of more the gated communities in the far, far, far lands will alleviate the problem of gated communities?
2
Were any of these American troops members of the Trump family?
Of course not. Ever since his cowardly dishonorable and unpatriotic German grandfather fled to America in order to avoid criminal prosecution for dodging the military draft no member of the Trump family has ever worn the military uniform of any American armed force.
Since 9/11/01 a mere 0.75% of Americans have volunteered to wear the military uniform of any American armed force. And they have been ground to emotional, mental and physical dust by repeated deployments in ethnic sectarian civil wars that have no military solution. While the rest of us pretend to be brave honorable and patriotic by rising to sing the national anthem and saluting the flag at sporting events.
17
President trumps Benghazi? If Benghazi made you made, shouldn’t this. Would it be hypocritical not to be made?
Sadly, two more Americans are dead.
If we had disengaged a month ago, these soldiers would have been home with their families. If we don’t disengage now, we can be sure that more soldiers will not see their families again.
What again is the noble cause for being there?
To protect a branch of the Kurds that the U.S. and most of Europe has labeled as a terrorist organization?
To prevent Assad from reasserting control over a portion of his own country?
To prevent Putin from expanding influence in a country where Russia has had an alliance and military bases for 50 years?
If defeating the last remnants of ISIS is the reason, then why aren’t the Europeans front and center on this mission? France and the U.K. have a small number of soldiers there, but where is Germany? Belgium? Italy? Spain? Sweden?
Where are soldiers from other countries that have been hit by ISIS, including Egypt, Indonesia, and Pakistan?
If it’s not important enough for these other countries, it’s not important enough for the U.S.
5
Let's skip all the pretense that there is a Middle East"strategy" in the current administration. So far, they've been putting the blame for all the world's problems on the last administration (or anyone by themselves).
So guess what's going to happen next? FOX News, Limbaugh, Coulter, etc. will be dictating our next move in Syria. It seems that they are the ones running the country these days. It would all be funny were it not for the fact that peoples' lives are literally at stake.
8
American soldiers are dead today very likely because Donald Trump declared ISIS defeated a couple of weeks ago, in what clearly was more of his blundering boastfulness.
4
Actually, they are dead certainly because they were a part of invasion of the foreign country that predated Trump.
Have trumps advisors at Fox weighed in yet ?
10
I guess ISIS doesn't think it's been defeated.
4
When you have people like Bolton and Pompeo in charge, what do you expect?
3
Ah! You're kidding me. There ain't no ISIS. It must have been someone directed by Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi, and Chuck Schumer, managed by Michael Cohen, and supervised by Robert Mueller.
7
Another 'fake news' article from the liberal press. Our Commander in Chief said we defeated ISIS. All hail the Chief!
3
Another Republican President with a stupid premature "Misson Accomplished" declaration that is an abject blatant lie.
Yes President Trump, please tell the families of the American servicemebers and civilains killed and wounded in Syria that "ISIS has been defeated".
In person. Face to face. You don't have the guts, Commander Bonespur.
4
Time for a new commander in chief since this one is obsessed with a stupid wall while Americans are killed in a country where he claims there is no threat.
4
I'm very sorry the families of those killed have to endure this.
I find its always better for officials to be muted and circumspect in forming a rationale for major military decisions, avoiding declarative, absolutist statements about the enemy.
Condolences to those whose loved ones were lost to such violence.
15
I am extending my very sincere condolences to the Families of those killed and injured. I am extremely sorry for your loss and your pain. My only sibling died many years ago while serving in the US Army. I still can't talk about it without crying. You truly don't " get over it ", but the pain does lessen, and the good memories keep you going. Courage.
216
That's what Americans do, Ms. Dalmatian. We send condolences, and we say prayers. But we Americans actually never do anything measurable. We are more worried about our favorite NFL teams than we are about our soldiers being killed or injured. In Jesus' name. Amen.
17
@Phyliss Dalmatian. I cried when I read your comments. My sons served in Iraq and I dreaded the idea of losing one or both of them. Luckily they came home changed, but alive. I'm sorry for your loss, they are many like me who care and will never forget the sacrifices and grieving that too many people endured. I can't change what happened to your family and I wish you well.
8
@Jay David. People do truly care about our military and the lives lost. My two sons served in Iraq and I understand how that feels, to have family in danger and not be able to prevent them from getting hurt. Some do say "thoughts and prayers" too much and I too get sickened by things not changing. Most of the time I think there is a feeling of powerlessness. We do care and do want change but our government is no longer for the people. It is for special interests and until that changes very little can be done. Please don't confuse that with a lack of caring.
2
To almost every commenter:
Blaming Trump - premature.
Blaming the U.S. - premature.
Blaming our coalition partners - premature.
Blaming Obama or Clinton or Bush or neocons or [fill in the blank] - premature and/or postmature.
Arguing for isolationism as policy - ahistoric nonsense.
Arguing for nation-building as policy - ahistoric nonsense.
All of the above - hopelessly ideologically blindered.
Continuing one's education about the unending war on terror - the right thing to do.
Thinking about the unimaginable pain and suffering inflicted upon those who serve the U.S., in harm's way, in the war on terror, and upon their loved ones -- , and determining what one can do, however little, to support those who serve, and then following through -- the bare minimum.
16
If I am not wrong, a greatly celebrated and admired Rep. POTUS, Reagan immediately withdrew troops from Liban after a horrific bombing killed too many US soldiers.
That action was called a sound decision and years after the American influence in ME has grown not degraded.
7
@renarapa I don't know about our middle East influence, but I have read that in retrospect the withdrawal from Lebanon was criticized as having made us look weak, turning tail at the first loss of life.
2
What would you prefer: to look weak (with no consequences) and alive, to look tough and dead?
The US (Trump) announces its withdrawal from Syria to immense criticism from every quarter and now there is a bombing with one dead US soldier and others wounded. Two deaths of US servicemen over the last three plus years. Now when the US announces withdrawal, the enemy commits an act that will strengthen US resolve to stay in country. Is it just me or does something stink? My deepest sympathies to families of all the dead.
7
@Jim
Well, it's a warzone. Nothing new about that. The first casualty in a warzone is the truth. Stink in a warzone is inevitable. So, you're right and wrong at the same time.
It might be a made up or not - you'll most likely never know.
--
My sincerest condolences to the next of kin in this unspeakable darkest hours.
@Jim
Yup. It stinks.
We sure this isn't a covert Russian attack to ensure public support for American withdrawal? Putin is an expert in producing terrorist attacks advantageous to him (see: Russian apartment bombings that brought him to power).
7
@rob
Gee, I view this tragedy as another Trump lie... that we already defeated ISIS in Syria.
@rob This level of Red Scare paranoia is unhealthy.
1
Yeah, but at that time, the conspiracy theory goes, the goal was to get the public support for the Chechen war not for the withdraw. Why now same action will have different rational, especially when the Americans started to withdraw? I guess the conspiracy theory doesn't need logic, and the rational changes depending what side the person supports.
1
Trump, of course, was wrong. He was either naive and listening to Putin or willfully following Putin's instructions. Clearly, ISIS has not been defeated.
That said, my condolences go out to the families of the those killed and to all military families who have members who must follow orders issued by the dotard Trump, who couldn't care less about them.
45
@BMD I think it was the Turkish President who gave tRump his marching orders.
2
As I recall Trump declared that we won! MISSION ACCOMPLISHED
8
@paula Are you implying that Trump ... LIED to us? That would be a first, right?
More and more your words will come back to haunt you.
Mr. Trump you can’t keep lying it’s killing our country.
21
Our president naively emboldens our enemies and alienates our allies. The blame for this is squarely on his shoulders. ISIS is a philosophy and a religious jihad.
Who will step forward and censure this man.
20
@Roger Dodger
Someone quick, remind McConnell his constitutional duty is to exercise "Checks and Balances" to PROTECT the American PEOPLE FROM traitors like Trump.
4
He sure is winning, isn’t he???
3
@Angela
Yes, Trump takes 1st Prize for "Worst President in United States History "
Proves that Trump is a master tactician in foreign affairs, as he is in US homeland security (shut down the government until I get what I want).
Remember the chemical bombs used to kill and maim civilians in Syria last year? Our dear leader responded with pinpoint missile strikes on a Syrian airbase...after he first called Vladimir to let him know where the strikes would land.
We'd be better off with the Mad Hatter and the Queen of Hearts as leaders of the Executive Branch.
25
So ISIS is defeated and Mexico is paying for the wall.
Is that what you're saying, Donald?
142
@MarcosDean
And ALL the federal workers support Trump''s government shutdown.
13
If jihadists want to bomb themselves to death the least we can do is allow them to do it in peace and without our army trying to force them to do otherwise.
3
Trump's insane policies are literally killing Americans. Ray Sipe
12
Okay US House of Representatives, start the 4 year investigation. This is all Trumps fault, just as much as Benghazi was Clinton’s fault. We want a never ending investigation, we demand it.
35
The information is preliminary at this stage, but why Manbij for the attack? This is the city that Turkey wants to quickly take control over and is the farthest city away from the current ISIS territories in the desert. Seems suspicious to me.
12
It sure would be comforting to have Defense Secretary James "Mad Dog" Mattis sitting at the table as Trump "monitors" the situation.
Trump couldn't push him out the door fast enough.
Sometimes......the truth stings.
47
Please pay attention......the USA has a 'defense'/military budget that controls our policy in foreign affairs. We are an imperial nation that occupies other lands. Notice that when 45 tried to withdraw in the Middle East, Bolton and others amped up the noise on Iran and how they are trouble and we have to protect Israel. Really? They have nukes and don't pl;ay nice. War is profitable and we have been in continued 'war' forever. Viet Nam lessons learned- praise our troops for keeping us safe and wave the flag and sing the song.
11
So Donald Trump stated that ISIS was defeated. That point reminded me of Germany's communique that Stalingrad was successfully taken by the Wehrmacht in 1942. We all know the reversal of fortune there, and the similarities are ample, Godwin's Law notwithstanding. Unlike Trump and Bolton, Germany's leader at least didn't dodge the draft, for what it's worth.
18
@John Smith Perhaps Canadians “all know” about the battle of Stalingrad, in 1942-43, but many Americans know nothing about it. We Americans “don’t know much about history” (to quote a popular song of decades ago).
1
@Northwoods Cynic That is one of the saddest replies that I have ever read. There is one encouraging note, or two...you know, and you have good perspective on music. Thank you,
Withdraw all US soldiers anywhere in the world back to the US.
Failing that, don't eat in the same place regularly!
2
This cannot be true. ISIS is no longer a threat. I know because Trump said so and he's never wrong and he never tells lies, right?
38
But didn't Donald Trump give a presidential assurance the that ISIS had been defeated in Syria?
8
@Bartokas
Aww, there he goes again...listening to Putin.
The radicals will never be defeated. Our response to this will without a doubt kill some innocents and therefore create yet more people who hate us. We will in turn feel it necessary to defeat them by killing yet more innocents with them. Rinse, repeat.
6
@Ronald Stone We are the radicals.
No other nation has ever had hundreds of military bases occupying the world and no other nation has caused more destruction than us after WWII
4
At 11:17 am, this was breaking news at the NYT, WaPO, CNN and LA Times. It was nowhere to be found on Fox, which fancies itself Fox News.
159
@Jim thanks for reporting this. It's so important to track what Trump's supporters are being fed. The question is, how do we encourage them to look beyond Fox for their information?
7
It is 9:36 in California and not a word about the attack in Syria on American troops on the Trump network Fox Trump News. But lots of hate articles about democrats, Comey, the Post.
11
@Jim It's 2:37pm on the East Coast, and still no word on Fox about Syria.
8
Don't worry everybody, nothing to see here, just more fake news/inaccurate reporting. As you all know, ISIS has been officially creamed in Syria, as per our Stable Genius President.
16
Trump said ISIS was eliminated from Syria
What happened? Oh, just another “Bigly” lie from Donnie.
7
Something’s fishy. ISIS can’t be so stupid as to provoke the US
while we’re threatening to leave Syria.
8
It's a matter of character, not logic, as in the fable of the scorpion...
maybe of all ISIS members are given a Fox News subscription they will know they are defeated, and go home....
6
Donald Trump is a fool, and dangerous. His announcement that the US will pull out of Syria contributed to this tragedy, if not having precipitated it!
Mike Pence, who is a total sycophantic toady has been exposed for the ridiculous cardboard politician he is. He just announced that ISIS has been defeated! Not so fast, Pence!
These idiots are running our government. our military and our foreign policy. We are just a hair-trigger away from a major war or other military tragedy that will live in infamy forever. We must control these gonzo "leaders" immediately!
7
Fake news. ISIS is defeated.
5
The thrust of this article is that somehow a small contingent of our troops will somehow make a difference in a nation where anarchy has been present for a number of years. Peace must be restored in this land of violence and it is not up to the U.S., but the forces there where it should be resolved. The U.S. debt, problems within our borders are enormous. We should withdraw.
7
@tennvol30736
Are you assuming the US is a force who wants to restore peace in those lands?
If so, it seems like a wrong analysis
3
I thought ISIS was defeated? Isn’t that the reason the US us hightailing it out of Syria? This is the same tactic used in Mogadishu to push us out the door. Loosing life is tragic, loosing the war puts us all at risk. We need to defeat the ISIS forces that remain once and for all. This doesn’t look like the winning we were going to be so tired of. I’m tired of incompetence.
22
"The attack comes at a time when President Trump is pushing to withdraw American forces from Syria because he says the jihadists have been defeated."
Is that the administration's position?
I don't think we can be certain what Trump thinks until those 3 foreign policy experts sitting on the couch at Fox & Friends weigh in.
(Subject to final approval by Ann and Rush, of course)
262
@LT Excellent!
6
@LT
I say we send Ann and Rush to have a chat with these fellows. They are both reasonable people. I am certain they can convince them everything is fine.
They certainly have with Trump and anyone wearing a MAGA hat.
10
I thought we had defeated Isis in Syria. Perhaps the president was misinformed.
6
Didn't Trump's justification for pulling troops out of Syria include something about how "he" had defeated ISIS? Truly I long for some experienced, intelligent and knowledgeable leaders to lock him in a windowless room and knock some sense into his head. And I suspect, as usual, that instead of an advised response to this attack, Trump will look for an angle that in his mind makes him look like a hero. I am saddened and sickened by all of this.
62
I just want to express my sorrow for the death of our soldiers. We all sit around, complain and write comments about what's wrong and how these intractable problems can be solved. And who's to blame for what policy failure. These men and women risk their lives in pursuit of policies often backed by a large majority of Americans, left, right and center. I just want to take a moment to pause the partisan bickering and honor them.
438
@Mark Fuerst amen, and thank you for centering us all on something we can agree on: that lives are precious, and should never be forgotten.
10
@Mark Fuerst
Mark--I'm sorry, but the cold truth is that "These men and women risk their lives in pursuit of" US domination of strategic parts of the world, and in doing so have unleashed (or been part of unleashing) terrible violence, killing hundreds of thousands of people, mostly civilians, in Iraq, Libya, Syria and Yemen. They should be mourned as the loss of human life is tragedy, but there is nothing honorable about what the US military does.
Kayla--Mark did not say that "lives are precious"; he said that the lives of US soldiers are precious, and by omission implied that the lives of the people of the Middle East are not, or at least not worth mentioning. (Even in this incident, most of the dead were Syrian, not American.)
As long as so many people--many of whom know better--insist on glossing over the truly immense crimes that the US has committed and continues to commit (in the guise of "honoring the troops" who--under orders--carry out those crimes) from Vietnam to the Dominican Republic to the Middle East, not much good can happen in terms of putting an end to these crimes.
152
@Jon Glad you've said the hard truth.
14
Trump will have to talk first with his boss Vladimir Putin, to know how to handle this crisis in Syria ... the last two years, the movements of the United States in the Middle East are decided according to the strategic interests of Russia ...
17
As per Trump, Mission Accomplished! I've heard that one before!
9
Should we stay? Should we leave? Should we have or have not entered the fray to begin with?
I fear none of this really matters anymore -- Someone-in-Chief will probably, soon, just say this development is fake news and that everyone supports His decision regardless.
2
Publish the news as it is and let us make the connection that this is at a time when Trump is trying to remove forces. If only there was a section of the paper devoted to opinions so we could keep bias out of our news. If only...
3
@Greg Inzinna
Trump trying to remover forces in Syria at the time this attack happened isa circumstantial fact that's important to the story, not an opinion. If is is your opinion that the fact does not belong in the article, I recommend subscribing to an AP or Reuters ticker.
6
@Greg Inzinna
Did Trump not say and try to do that in the time frame stated in thearticle? Yes. You don't seem to understand what facts are.
1
Trumpski,
Did we really win the war in Syria against ISIS?
Seems like they still have some strength left.
6
This can't be true. Trump said ISIS was defeated already and we all know he never lies or does things just because to Russians are holding something over his head.
9
Another "good reason" for leaving . . . !/?/!/??
But seriously, people: The murk is murkier by the hour. Some Syrians are unhappy, but not enough to make a difference. Who is oppressing/abusing whom?
And our darling media is relentless keeping us in the murk.
3
Congratulations to The Commander in Chief. ISIS, Russia, Turkey and Assad now have an open invitation to do whatever they want. And they will.
9
Just three weeks ago, Trump told us ISIS was eliminated in Syria, though we knew they were not. Then he chose to pull troops there, which the generals and the NSC said was a mistake. Trump ask Erdogan to protect the Kurds, who have been fighting ISIS with the US. He has not agreed. Now, Americans are getting killed again. Isn't this type of activity the same type that Trump blamed Obama for with regards to Iraq - we pulled out to early? Trump also told us during the campaign you don't tell the enemy what you are doing, yet he told ISIS what we were doing and now Americans are dead. Great job Trump - tired of winning yet?
8
"We have defeated ISIS in Syria...”
Trump is solely focused on pleasing Putin and expanding his business with the support of MBS and Russian oligarchy. Trump is unable to see anything but what pleases him or enriches him. ISIS, war in Yemen, NATO, government shutdown, conforonting Russia, etc., are really not his interests nor he feels obligated to serve as a president for all Americans. Sadly, this comes at the cost of American lives!
5
I cant even imagine the horror and tragic grief of receiving a phone call from the State Department saying your - son/daughter, father/mother, wife/husband, sister/brother - have been killed in a suicide bombing attack in Syria after the President of the United States stated "We have won the fight against Islamic State." Plus, seeing images of removing military equipment out.
God Bless our troops, you are not forgotten, we love you!
41
But Trump told us that we "defeated" Isis in Syria?
I wonder if Fix News will report this, or ignore it, to help Trump continue his lies.
5
Wait. The president said, last week, that “ISIS is crushed.” His NSA, John Bolton, tried to walk back the Pollyanna lie. Who’s telling the truth? So, while we’re answering that no-brainer (no one), American military personnel are being killed.
Making America Great Again. So much winning.
Will the president write (longhand, as did President Barack Obama) to the bereaved parents or spouses or children or significant others who made the last sacrifice—for nothing? Or will he fly off to Mar-a-Lago to golf?
7
@Red Sox, '04, '07, '13, ‘18,
Mar-a-Lago 10 -to-1 odds
This is something horrible to
wake up to...Trump has blood
on his hands with his indiscriminate
bragging about ISIS being defeated.
He goaded them into this attack.
Someone of authority must get
Trump to be responsible. When
will he realize that he is a player
in real life and drop the tv clown
act? Republicans leadership, take
a stand.
50
That’s not an act
Yes withdraw to a point but fill the skies with drones.
1
100% ploy move by ISIS to keep the USA in Syria ....duh !!! my condolences to the families of my military brothers, RIP
1
Yes, ISIS is still in existence. And if we keep troops on the ground in the Middle East, many more Americans will be killed by them than if we stayed home.
2
But Trump told us that we "defeated" Isis in Syria?
I wonder if Fox News will report this, or ignore it, to help Trump continue his lies.
5
Benghazi!
1
War is hell. This seems like a strategic move by ISIS to inflict casualties to US troops so they can claim victory as America withdraws. It will be very interesting to see how POTUS responds.
2
The principal benefactor of withdrawal of US troops from Syria....yaah you guessed it right, "Russia" and the Asad regime !
Trump's middle-east policy is aiding Putin bring Russia back to the table on important negotiations regarding the middle-east.
6
Good thing we've won, better get out faster and see if Erdogan will still go easy on MBS.
4
"But the overall plan for the withdrawal has yet to be explained."
I would wager that the overall plan has yet to be thought through, let alone actually devised. These facts, however, need no explanation beyond a quick check on whose "plan" it is.
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“The President has been fully briefed and will continue to mismanage the situation in Syria,” said White House fake spokesperson Sarah Huckster Sanders.
Make Russia Great Again
Trump 2019
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@Socrates -- this is what happens when a president knows more than his generals. He alone is responsible for this miscalculation and loss of American lives.
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@silver vibes But he alone can fix it!
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@Socrates
I disagree with Trump on everything but this. It is time to vacate the Middle East. No more useless American deaths in this war that he is right to cede control of to the powers in the region, no matter who they are.
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This is the reason the US needs to withdraw. The neo cons will raise the bloody tea shirt. The USs presence in Syria is basically to make sure the Assad gov't never reasserts authority over the country. The USs policy was to have jihadists defeat Assad and now we see the blow back.
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"because he says the jihadists have been defeated."
One suicide bomber driven crazy by his religion doesn't support the argument that the jihadists have not been defeated or are limping along.
Look, it's time to get out of this mess. Hate Trump all you want, but removing our military from this never ending disaster is the right move.
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@Midwest Josh
There are well understood methods to accomplish military withdrawals in an orderly fashion, which require appreciation of conditions on the ground. Leave Syria if you must, but a wholly unforced chaotic retreat is stupidly incarnate.
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@eric
Excellent point. Not incidentally, "stupidity incarnate" aptly describes Donald Trump.
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@Midwest Josh Was that your stance after Benghazi? Somehow I doubt the Fox News orbit will ever admit the deaths of our diplomats in Libya was never Hilary’s fault. Yes we need to leave, there is fast food awaiting our finest in the Oval Office.
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How can this happen? I was under the impression that ISIS was eliminated in Syria.
My condolences to the families of those who have fallen.
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@Kevin McKague the families of these soldiers should lawyer up ASAP to sue trump,mcconnell,pompeo and bolton.Enough!
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Has anyone ever gotten Erdogan to explain what he did to get the 40 hostages Daesh was holding freed a few years back?
It's on topic, connect the dots.
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@magicisnotreal
He threatened to stop buying their oil.
Ya think??
"We have defeated ISIS in Syria, my only reason for being there during the Trump Presidency."
6:29 AM - 19 Dec 2018
Trump will now blame Obama, Hillary Clinton, the Democrats, Mattis, his generals, you name it. And his followers will agree with the tragic nonsense.
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Actually the bigot could say, Mexico has been defeated and Syria is paying for the wall and his moron followers aka base would believe him.
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No, they won’t because this is not even being reported on Fox’s website.
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I thought ISIS was defeated..."totally destroyed".
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@Lebowski2020 - and I thought we were assured that ISIS was the "JV" team..
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@Midwest Josh Obama was wrong. Is #45 right? Is ISIS "totally destroyed"?
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@Midwest Josh Drop the Obama stuff. It's old. While you're at it, stop having your nightmares over Hillary's e-mail.
Syria is on Trump's watch for 2+ years now. He said ISIS was defeated. They said "Oh yeah? Watch this."
Trump is incompetent. Obama has nothing to do with that except in your head.
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It is more than clear than DT is wrong again. Isis is not defeated and just proved it. We have no business leaving Syria. And, we can be sure once we are out, Turkey will slaughter our allies, the Kurds.
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@Bian From Trump's perspective, his base will still think he's right. If he changes his mind, he wasn't wrong before, he just changed his mind. Or whatever nonsense spin he'll float that his base will lap up.
Meanwhile, you're right. Turkey is licking its chops.
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@Bian - ISIS, Taliban, Al Qaeda… won't be defeated any more than the Viet Cong were. They live there and will simply replenish their forces and continue the fight, just as the Afghans have for centuries. Our supply lines are stretched too far, our costs - in life and in lucre - are too great. Sooner or later, we will be forced to leave.
We are the interlopers, the invaders. We have no more right to invade their countries than they do to invade Kansas. Chickenhawk George pulled the cork out of the ME bottle and destabilized the entire region. We stay there just because we are there and can't find any "honorable" way out - as if "honor" can be applied to our actions.
Those four troops would not have been killed if they were not there. Trump is totally right on this (Geez, it hurts to say that). Bring the troops home.
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