Ayaan Hirsi Ali escaped many years ago but still needs 24 hour body guards. She is now in the U.S. and has created an organization to fight female genital mutilation, which she suffered as a child, that is occurring right here in this country in 2019! Her interview on Firing Line is worth watching. http://www.pbs.org/wnet/firing-line/video/ayaan-hirsi-ali-10pnsj/
27
As bad as things are here in America, they are indeed bad, I have to remind myself, they are much worse in many other places. I feel for these poor women. Then again, it seems we humans still have far to go. Globally human rights are in their infancy. The misogyny here is subtle but still destructive.
19
I've been saying this for years: We took the high road with apartheid in South Africa. We have an analogous situation with Saudi Arabia, with women being the oppressed MAJORITY! Yet, we cozy up to this appalling country. I'll never understand how the United States can stomach this. Where is the international outrage? The US is guilty, but so is the rest of the Western world.
61
I remember apartheid in South Africa. Finally, the world rejected it, South Africa was shunned and apartheid fell. Yet there is still no international objection to the treatment of women in Saudi Arabia, nor the other countries that officially abuse women. This is slavery. Saudis should be sanctioned.
50
Why didn't Ms. Muhaimeed stay in Georgia? Why didn't Ms. Alqunun stay in Thailand? Wouldn't those countries grant them asylum and if not, why not? Why is it necessary for them to go all the way to Australia or Sweden or Canada for safety?
9
When it became known that the new King had changed the law about letting women in KSA drive, I had to laugh. Even this paper was celebrating it. They may have been given the right but the truth is most Saudi women will never be allowed to drive because the men in their families would straight out disallow them to do so. Just asking alone (to drive) could put them into lock up and or a beating or three. Now you can bet their phones will be highly restricted, especially when they are out of the country.
30
Ms. Alqunun's final destination should not be revealed. Nor should photographs of her be widely published.
You can see the fear in her eyes in the one used for this article.
30
It's high time that we expose the dilemma of these women and convey honest reporting on their lives. These restrictions and conditions are NOT acceptable for human beings, no matter what religion you claim.
I can tell you right now that if it were easier for women in my country to leave, hundreds of thousands would be on planes tomorrow, for similar reasons to those highlighted in this article.
40
We say terrible things about the Iranian regime, most of them true, but they pale in comparison with the backwardness of this pathetic autocracy that respects none of the basic human rights that civilized nations proclaim to protect. Our pact with the Saudi royal family is nonsensical and deeply corrupting of the US national identity. This is an embarrassment for many Americans concerned with what our country should stand for.
80
"In 2017, Dina Ali Lasloom, 24, begged for help in a widely viewed online video after she was stopped while transiting in the Philippines. She was held at the airport until family members arrived and took her back to Saudi Arabia, where it is unclear what happened to her."
Shame on the Philippine government. I've seen a video of a Filipino couple crying in Canada because their visas expired and they were about to be deported. Yet they wanted to stay in Canada. They are not political refugees but economic refugees who could return to the Philippines without any criminal charge. The lady who was in transit was a genuine political refugee. She should have been treated as such and allowed to plea for asylum to a third party country.
27
@Wayne According to HRW she was killed by her own brother and was reported as honor killing. Here is that report from UK. https://www.libertyfighters.uk/middle-east/honor-killing-in-saudi-arabia-the-converted-christian-woman-repatriated-from-australia-killed-by-her-own-brother/
13
I'm very happy to know that this young lady was warmly welcomed in Toronto to stay allowing her the possibility to finally reshape and make a meaningful life. As an extension it's sad in contrast to realize that U.S. policies have become so negative towards these 'coloured' people. U.S. should have been the first country to open the doors to her. Furthermore, Canada has immersed itself in a conflict with Saudi Arabia because of women in prison for alleged criticism of the government in that country. U.S. has awarded Saudi Arabia for decades with billions of dollars without any reference to the outrageous record of human rights violations particularly towards women (there's still one in prison at this time), not mentioning the atrocious murder of a thoughtful journalist, Mr Khashoggi.
23
If the Saudi laws directed to keep women in subjugated and servile condition were instead directed against a race, the outcry would be stronger, clearer, more forceful. As it was against apartheid South Africa.
Religion-based discrimination against women has to end in the 21st century. As a species humanity has evolved past the stage of high patriarchy, and yet the systematic privileging of men endures in discriminatory religious laws that disempower women. These laws are prominent in shari'a, but all conservative world religions discriminate against women.
Conservative religious people like to claim a right to their religious practice & a right not to have their religious sensibilities offended.
My religious sensibilities are offended by misogyny. What about my right, and the rights of billions of women, not to be offended (and aggressed, beaten, imprisoned, & forced into servile marriage) by misogyny?
29
@ABullard, FGM is tolerated too.
5
If a country had created laws that disbarred 50% of its people from voting, kept them as property, disbarred them from freedom of speech and movement, gave their testimony less weight in a court of law - and was doing this based on religion or race, it would an international sandal, and I cannot imagine that the US and the West in general would be talking of the country in such glowing terms. But since this discrimination is against a gender : yeah, ok, that’s fine.
Shows you that men are in control of policy across nations.
29
I would like to think that as a more equal number of women gain access to congress and the courts there will be a greater push for some kind of sanctions against the Saudis.
14
Domestic violence is terrible when it happens in isolated homes here in the US, usually by control of the father. How barbaric that the whole nation of Saudi Arabia condones this abuse as law. And just like in classic domestic violence situations, Saudi women are most in danger when they attempt to flee.
20
Instead of prosecuting escaped escaped women for bringing shame to the country the country should prosecute the men who made their lives so desperate and degraded that they had no choice but to fly.
34
So, M.B.S is worried about freedoms to women harming Saudi Arabia's culture. What culture?
What major medical advancements have come from the kingdom?
With all of its money, what scientific breakthroughs were achieved in his kingdom?
In literature and the arts, can anyone point to great works coming from Saudi Arabia?
When I think of Saudi Arabia, my first thoughts are sand, oil, money, palaces, yachts, beheadings and repression. So much for the culture.
68
How sad. What a pathetic country Saudi Arabia is. If the world didnt need them for oil it would be no more than the Sahara Desert; a barren land of no worth or value.
48
@Jamespb4, you realize if we made the commitment to solar wind and electric we would solve a huge environmental problem and no longer need them. Let China deal with them.
24
A man, learning that drillers had discovered oil beneath the sands of Saudi Arabia, commented:
"I would much rather they had found water. Water makes men work, oil makes men dream."
And of what do the Saudi men dream?
The subjugation of women, of course.
38
The headline of this article downplays the significance of what these Saudi women are fleeing. They are not simply “tired of restraints”, they are desperate to escape abuse. By downplaying their situation, the NYT leads people to think the situation of women in Saudi Arabia is not so bad.
53
Shame on man, shame on mankind.
But what’s new?
For the Saudis, women are property. It’s sexual slavery. Call it what it is.
Slavery existed in The United States until Abraham Lincoln, our 16th president. Men and women were property. Abraham Lincoln would not have been elected had he favoured emancipation. He fought sesssation. Then he gave us emancipation.
Our third president, Thomas Jefferson, understood slavery. Sally Hemings is famous.
What is the obligation we have, given the stories we read here?
Should we open our doors as Canada has? Or close them as Trump has?
Do not ask Dick Cheney, do not ask Donald Trump, our oil companies or the allies that believe Saudi Arabia is a civilised nation.
Humans are missing a chip. More than one.
We treat men differently than woman, we fault the Me, Too crowd. And yet, we are passive in the face of sexual slavery.
What if England treated its women this way? Would we love the English accent so?
Speaking for us here at the farm, we will host and protect Saudis or others fleeing any form of oppression.
See Nadia Murad: @SBLewisSB
She wrote her book here.
What about you?
32
Maybe if so-called human rights organizations were not so obsessed with condemning Israel (a democracy and ally) for engaging in completely justifiable self-defense against terrorists, they could find time to protest against true human rights abuses by the various Kingdoms and Republics throughout the Middle East that execute their citizens for apostasy (disbelieving the official state religion).
24
@Pennsylvanian Last year, Canada condemned SA abuses and only human rights organizations sided with Canada. Radio silence from USA which consider SA and MBS as great friends while Canada was declared an USA abuser and a threat to USA's national security.
16
@Pennsylvanian ok, point taken, but sadly in Israel there is increasing tendency by some segments of society toward gender segregation and the systematic demeaning of women.
Misogyny is rooted in all the world patriarchal religions.
10
Women build and produce every human being on this planet. Every Saudi man was built and produced by a woman. The sheer thanklessness and self-aggrandizement is astounding. If building and producing a human was considered divine at the beginning, what an irony that those who build and produce humans now are treated as less than human (rather than lauded for their apparent divinity). Womb envy on a national and cultural level.
32
If only those people criticizing Israel for its “intolerance” and “human rights violations” could direct their energy toward one of Israel’s adversaries there would be more awareness.
12
Indeed, both equally violent and tyrannical. No surprise they collaborated behind the scenes (along with Egypt)!
4
@In the know...Please! All violations of Human Rights have to be severely criticized and condemned, whichever the country.
10
The US government should have nothing to do with the kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Nothing.
27
SA is the most primitive, backward and tribal-based system in the world. 15 out of the 19 hijackers in 9/11 were from Saudi Arabia. This nation is the largest supporters of Jihadists and ISIS. What amazes me is the power of their checkbook diplomacy that has even bought the U.S president.
49
These women should be encouraged and helped in every possible way. In seeking asylum, they should go to the top of the list. Not only will they benefit themselves, but other oppressed women will be helped as well. More world attention to this welcome phenomenon might eventually force the Saudis to moderate their anti-female policies.
28
President Trump who has sought to return the Statue of Liberty to France is now in talks with Canada to remove the statue to the St Lawrence, according to unconfirmed reports from Moscow. Putin reportedly promised to pay for the transport but not the installation which he said should be paid for by Mexico. We could not independently confirm these reports.
12
And which country was the first Trump visited as President? Saudi Arabia where he hugged and danced with the Saudis. So much in common. Love of power and money, disdain for women, arrogance, control of the press and the population, etc. So much for Trump to admire.
41
While part of me tends to take the Star Trek Prime Directive approach to not wanting to judge and interfere with other cultural beliefs, the far stronger part wishes there was an underground railroad for oppressed if they want out. Then I realized that to a large extent - the whole problem of women seeking refuge from male domination and abuse is both global and becoming more visible. The more it comes to light, the easier it will be for women to discover their power to transform the patriarchy and restore balance to the planet.
14
How is it that we can visit Saudi Arabia, vacation in Saudi Arabia, with the blessings of our country. Women are owned by their family there. HOWEVER, I am told that I cannot visit Cuba because of 'human rights violations! What is the logic to that, I want to visit Cuba as easy as I can visit Saudi Arabia. My government says no, it should me MY CHOICE. I am not endangered in Cuba, it is much safer than the United States. And it is my right to visit any peaceful country I choose.
30
@Joan Starr... You're right, I as a Canadian (physician refugee from Pinochet and working a very meaningful life in Canada as a doctor) we can travel all we want to Cuba and, true, it's a peaceful and lovely country. Lot of Europeans do the same something which help financing the superb education and health services in the island (not for the foreigners... for the Cubans).
9
@Joan Starr actually as a woman you can't visit Saudi Arabia. You need a male sponsor.
3
God bless these brave women, who want to be treated equal to men, and not beaten or treated like possessions of their families.
20
@qiaohan
This is the society portrayed in the Handmaids Tale. Similar to what the US would be like if the Conservatives here have their way
10
Although Hilary Mantell is better known for her first two books in the Thomas Cromwell trilogy, if you want to read an absolutely chilling book about living in the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, read her novel (1988) “Eight Months on Gazzah Street.” The novel is based on the four years Mantel lived in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia while her husband was working as a geologist and reading it terrified me more than anything by Stephen King ever could. Hilary Mantel has been quoted as saying that the day she left Saudi Arabia felt like “the happiest day of her life” and the more we learn about this repressive place, it’s easy to understand why.
25
And we subsidize, everyday, these type of regime with our petrol running cars. We, the people.
20
Now that Rahaf Alqunun is able to choose a country where
she can begin a new life, it would be best to allow her to have
the freedom and privacy to do that. Recent events show that
the Saudi government will pursue those who break their laws. Give Rahaf an opportunity to have the freedom to become a new citizen in a new country where she is just a working girl. It is not necessary for NYTimes readers or the rest of the world to know where that might be. Its enough to know that she is free.
19
@Neil - "Saudi government will pursue those who break their laws"
Their laws are evil. Women in Saudi Arabia are every bit as much slaves as blacks in the US were before the Civil War.
11
was it necessary to give out the details of how she used her father's phone to escape? Making it difficult for some other girl .
23
@G P, I think it was wrong to display photographs of her here as well. Her identity should be hidden as much as possible. Her eyes in this article's photo says it all, fearful. Her final destination should also not be disclosed.
13
AH, yes. Saudi Arabia, our staunchest ally in the region. I've known a lot of Saudis and I've known a lot of Iranians. I'll take the Iranians.
28
Restraints? These ladies are in existential danger at the hands of their own family or government, whichever come first. If they get married off young, a lifetime of slavery, with oily golden handcuffs at best
21
I followed Ms. Alqunun's story from the beginning last Sunday evening and thanks to the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, the NYT and other like minded media sources, support for her quickly grew. She is a brave young woman and I am one very proud Canadian today that our country stepped up to offer her asylum - it brought tears to my eyes this morning when I heard this news. Something hopeful in the midst of so much that is not in the world right now. It is a small step and only helps one young woman but change sometimes happens this way.
87
I completely sympathise and hope for all the best for each and every woman of KSA.
I would only point out that these women are wealthy.
Let’s have equal sympathy for the poor desperate women escaping persecution and a far higher probability of death from south and Central America, Africa, the rohingya in Myanmar, etc.
41
@BR the fact that they come from wealth (your assumption) has nothing whatsoever to do with how they are treated.
BTW, I don't see America rising to the occasion to help those in the countries you mention.
9
Can you believe that SA, a country that treats its 15 million women as second class citizens and virtual slaves, is our ally? As a woman, I find this deeply insulting. Human rights anyone?
139
@J.Sutton
My thoughts exactly.
38
@J.Sutton Now that we're having a moment of women empowerment in the states, maybe we'd reconsider the damnably low standards that we hold our allies to? We need to start adding strings to our weapon deals with Saudi Arabia. It's main suppliers are US, French, UK, Spain and then Germany. Germany opted out because of Yemen and we should consider doing the same or come into an agreement with our allies that any arms deals are contingent on X, Y, and Z. It's unlikely that the Saudis could acquire equal quantity and quality of weapons elsewhere. Russia doesn't have the same quality of weapons that we do.
27
@J.Sutton I can also not believe that Saudi graces the women's rights council and Human Rights Council on the UN and gets to lecture other countries on these topics
15
Saudi Arabia, the ally that the US is in bed with. Yet people like Mike Pompeo have nothing to say about that. I'm sure somewhere in the Bible, Mr. Pompeo will find a verse to justify this, and direct all his anger towards Iran.
How, but how in 2019, the US can still call a country like Saudi Arabia an ally. 30 years ago, that was understandable.
As for the lobbyists in D.C who represent Saudi Arabia, how could they sleep at night?
How can they look at themselves in the mirror, knowing that they are defending a regime that besides poisoning Islam, has turned half of its citizen into slaves.
55
@Chaks
Stop polittcizing this by involking Mike Pompeo. This has been going on for years. Remember, it was Obama who bowed to the Saudi rulers during his intitial visit to that country. What did he have to say about the treatment of Saudi women?
1
@Chaks Mike Pompeo is an evangelical and no women's rights proponent.
6
I bet they sleep very well. These kinds of people always do.
4
It's not the women who are shaming the families and the kingdom.
We all know where the shame really lies.
50
No need to watch "The Handmaid's Tale". Visit Saudi Arabia and get the live experience!
43
As far as I'm concern, there are no men in Saudi Arabia.
30
How well do you think the underground railroad would of work if a newspaper had published all their tactics?
16
"Those moves have increased his popularity among Saudi women, many of whom say guardianship is not a burden because their male relatives take good care of them."
So, if they could speak, would say many pet cats and dogs.
34
@Fisherose Also, there are those who know they may die if they speak the truth. Some may be saying guardianship is not a burden simply to avoid punishment.
4
And we in the United States may not visit Cuba because of human rights objections but we can visit Saudi Arabia? What hypocrites our government officials are!
79
@Joan Starr
No, you can't visit SA - they'd never grant you a visa.
3
Shame on man, stand on mankind.
But what’s new?
For the Saudis, women are property. It’s sexual slavery. Call it what it is.
Slavery existed in The United States until Abraham Lincoln, our 16th president. Men and women were property. Abraham Lincoln would not have been elected had he favoured emancipation. He fought sesssation. Then came emancipation.
As history shows, our third president, Thomas Jefferson, understood slavery. Sally Hemings is famous.
What is the obligation we have given the stories we read here?
Should we open our doors as Canada has? Or close them as Trump has?
Do not ask Dick Cheney, do not ask President Trump, our oil companies or the allies that believe Saudi Arabia is a civilised nation.
Humans are missing a chip. More than one.
We treat men differently than woman, we fault the Me, Too crowd. And yet, we are passive in the face of slavery.
What if England treated its women this way? Would we love the English accent so?
Speaking for us here any this farm, we will host and protect any Saudis or others fleeing any form of oppression.
See Nadia Murad: @SBLewisSB
What about you?
12
@S B Lewis
You left out Obama in your blame. It was he, who bowed to the Saudi rulers during his initial visit to the KSA. What did he do to address this matter?
1
Saudi Arabia has one of the worst regime in the world. Morally corrupt to its core and hypocritical. They use Islam the way Europe used Christianity during the middle age and the inquisition. They treat 50% of their citizens (women) as property and foreign workers from the Philippines, Pakistan and india as slaves. They decapitate, cut hands and flog people on public squares while their ruling class live obscene lifestyles full or drugs and prostitution as soon as they leave the country. The fact that we not only do business with them, turn a blind eye on them killing a US residence inside their consulate is a complete shame on our nation.
78
So here we have a primitive medieval society ("culture"?) that denies humanity to one half of its population. Where are our social culture warriors, the academics, the organizations supporting democracy and freedom on the left and on the right?
The aim of gender studies and the #MeToo movement is ostensibly to support equal rights. Here is your chance, my friends. Make yourselves heard.
42
@Kai "...the academics, the organizations supporting democracy and freedom on the left and on the right?"
You mean organisations like The New York Times and The Guardian who frequently write about and criticise Saudi Arabia?
2
The questions to put to Trump's White House advisors about the plight of Saudi women practically ask themselves. Any "Be Best" comments from Melania yet? From Ivanka? What are Jared's thoughts on the matter of why women want to flee the absolute feudal monarchy of his good buddy M.B.S.?
38
@Mike T
Yes, while you blame the Trump administration, ask what Obama did? Afterall, it was Obama who bowed to Saudi rulers upon his first visit to the KSA.
1
This is slavery, as they are treated exactly as escaped slaves.
21
Perhaps better to remember this fondamental bill of right, article 1:
Article 1
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Probably why your President don’t like UN ?
Laurent
Source:
“The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) is a milestone document in the history of human rights. Drafted by representatives with different legal and cultural backgrounds from all regions of the world, it set out, for the first time, fundamental human rights to be universally protected.
The Declaration was adopted by the UN General Assembly in Paris on 10 December 1948 during its 183rd plenary meeting:
Text: resolution 217 A (III)
Voting information: Meeting record and Voting record”
https://www.ohchr.org/EN/UDHR/Pages/UDHRIndex.aspx
Arabic:
https://www.ohchr.org/EN/UDHR/Pages/Language.aspx?LangID=arz
12
@Laurent Kling Saudi graces the UN Human Rights Council and the UN Women's Rights council-lecturing other countries on these issues. At this point it would be better if fewer people liked a UN that allows this travesty
1
What person in their right mind wants to live like Saudi women live in the 21st century?
18
Thia is where the true battle for Western feminism should be. Not on stupid things like 'safe zones' and Smashing Western patriarchy. Defanging men in the West and allowing such barbarity elsewhere creates intellectual space for them to expand and invade. These women are true refugees.
17
Many countries treat their women like chattel, not SA alone.
Our country allows child brides to come into the US from other countries like Pakistan and India. Ask Ayaan Hirsi Ali about what it's like to be a female in a theocratic Muslim nation.
14
@Kali It is illegal for women under 18 to marry in India. Now I know child marriages happen in violation of the law, but those married couples are not the ones who would be coming to US-since they would not be able to provide valid marriage docs to the visa officers
1
My dear Kali I wish you would not lump India and Pakistan together in such a cavalier fashion . No person could enter the USA as a child bride from India since they would not be able to even get a passport . Please check your facts before casting such aspersions.
4
Funny, the Anti Choice bunch consider a woman's uterus property pf the state.
31
Is it really in Rahaf Alcunun's best interests to report that she is headed to a new life in Canada?
10
@Jennene Colky
Perhaps she is headed elsewhere.
3
Canada is welcoming this woman. Something tells me the Trump administration would have returned her to Saudi Arabia.
35
@AC
As would Obama. Afterall, it was he who bowed to the Saudi rukers during his first visit to the KSA.
1
A few years back, the Human Rights organization created a campaign about the very abusive "guardianship" system. They created a powerful animated video as part of the campaign which can be seen here:
https://www.hrw.org/report/2016/07/16/boxed/women-and-saudi-arabias-male-guardianship-system
The United States needs to stop selling arms to a country with such a disregard for Human Rights.
31
It seems to me that Saudi Men shame themselves
27
We really shouldn't describe Saudi Arabia as having a 7th century society, as that dismisses the behavior of the regime too lightly. It unfairly supports the Saudi claims of upholding tradition. The ruling class of modern Saudi Arabia is really an amalgum of 20th century wealth and 21st century technology in the service of the timeless evil of subjugating other humans. For many years, the worst aspects of the regime were hidden from outsiders, but now the true extent to which anyone outside of the ruling class is oppressed is becoming harder to hide.
20
I admire the courage of these Saudi women. If only our federal legislators in the US had half of their strength.
As it is, the US Congress cant even find their spines to reject any and all dealings with the Saudis until they adhere to basic human rights. We can’t control a foreign, sovereign nation, but we can certainly express our disapproval by not assisting them.
21
The hypocrisy is stunning.
USA preaches about human rights to all. It also castigates countries that fall short for example we hear a lot about the abysmal treatment of women in Afghanistan. But US govt is strangely silent when important allies are concerned.
The mainstream media toed the line in the past. Remember Ms Kirkpatrick's differentiation of the bad totalitarian states and the acceptable authoritarian states?
USA is not the only country that practices this selective scrutiny of other states. The pity is that despite the free press, the mainstream media follows the same script. The govt does not censor but there is self censorship based on economic considerations.
This is beginning to change but too slowly to enlighten the average American who does not read widely or view TV programs outside the mainstream.
15
Thank you Canada for granting asylum to that young Saudi woman, and for reminding us of how a nation ought to treat others in distress.
Perhaps some day soon we will emulate our neighbor to the North and regain our long-held values.
29
@Phil Zaleon
Who could object to a country taking in a brave and principled young women like Ms. Alqunun? Who wouldn't feel gratified by her flight to safety and freedom? We all cheer for her.
Yet there are hundreds of millions of people on this planet living in dire circumstances who might beg for rescue. What about them?
1
Why do we support this country?
Don’t we now generate more oil then we need from them?
15
@Rob Brown If Trump would only go on TV and urge Americans to conserve gas and oil. Declare a 'man on the moon' type of effort with milestones along the way, to lead the US to energy independence with a strong emphasis on renewables.
I hoped Bush would do that after 9/11 (the hijackers were Saudi) but sadly he went off the rails and missed the opportunity.
5
@Cal
So did Obama when he bowed down to the Saudi leaders in his first visit to the KSA.
1
The Handmaids Tale is real. Mortifying
10
I am glad and happy for Rahfa. She deserves better than being oppressed or killed. My best wishes for her and all Saudi women!
Now, to my fellow Americans: The US continues to support the dictatorship in Saudi Arabia where the citizens are oppressed, mistreated, and killed. When (and it will happen) the royal family is removed from power and people in charge, please - my fellow Americans- do not complain if the new government becomes an enemy of the US. We made our choice, and we will have to live with it. This is not different than what happened in Iran in '53 when the CIA toppled Prime Mininster Mosaddegh to install the Shah (a dictator). Iranians will never forget what the US did, and we as Americans need to appreciate the fact that we would've felt the same way-- the enabler of my oppressor is my oppressor. We need to carefully consider the ones with support (Yesterday, Pembeo told people in the middle east that we are not with them, like Obama was. We are with the folks in authority). What goes around comes around!
13
I'm so proud that my country granted asylum to this young woman. I would gladly give her clothing food and money to show her the entire world is not a cruel place. Peace and love.
18
The sooner we all can afford to switch to electric cars, buses and trucks the sooner we can be rid of our forced alliance with Saudi Arabia.
12
Did this article remind anyone else of the two Saudi sisters who disappeared from the Washington, DC area and ended up found dead, bound together, in a river? (Can't recall where they were found, but think it might have been NY.) They had family--at least a mother--in Virginia. But there seemed to be a sense they were fleeing something or someone.
Anyone hear anything more about that?
25
Congratulations to the once that have escaped. The women in SA need the equivalent of the Underground Railroad... albeit one with the dimension of the witness protection program... perhaps new identities....
8
Congratulation. I would change the name and pick a different country of your origin. You have the asylum, but you are not entirely out reach. Be careful and good luck .
P.S. That the 20 year old woman has to go on the run, and seek asylum, to avoid forced marriage, is absolutely outrageous.
15
On a plane once, I sat next to a fascinating woman who travelled the world for her work. I asked her about the countries she visited. She said every country had its charms but Saudi Arabia was her least favorite place in the world because of the way women were treated there. This was despite her having travelled to so many other countries where women were reputed to be oppressed.
14
As I was reading this story earlier today, I couldn't help but think about two other news items today:
1. The Associated Press' story on the sheer number of approvals of child bride applications to the State Department, going back decades
2. The fact that we are going through Jim Crow 2.0 and not really talking about the white supremacist regime that is embodied in this Trump administration.
How many Saudi women has Pompeo sent back to MbS? Were he asked by a Saudi woman to provide asylum, who would Mike Pompeo call? The appropriate diplomatic officer or someone in MbS' milieu in Riyadh?
These Saudi women would be a heck of a lot less tired if, we, the U.S. of A., did our part. We don't and, thus, the forces of patriarchy and regression keep the upper hand. Jamal Khashoggi was betrayed. The women who were brought back were betrayed. Those who cannot leave are betrayed.
---
Things Trump Did While You Weren’t Looking [2019]
https://wp.me/p2KJ3H-3h2
17
@Rima Regas
How many women did Obama send back to the KSA after he bowed down to their leaders after his first vist to that country?
1
@cb
And Bush...
Thousands.
Don't forget the secretaries of state. It's their signatures on those papers.
3
It would be interesting to see the statistics about the number of refugees from Saudi Arabia seeking asylum in the United States and the percentage that are granted sorted out by gender and the corresponding reasons for their need for asylum. Maybe it is our policy to accept all immigrants from Saudi Arabia, especially if their application is supported by Jared Kushner.
6
I wish the paragraph about "allowing" driving had mentioned that several of the women who advocated publicly for women to be allowed driver's licenses were detained, are apparently *still* in detention, and according to Amnesty International, at least two have been tortured. The "right to drive" doesn't sound like such an amazing, magnanimous gesture and move toward freedom on the part of the regime in light of what is happening to the women who dared demand it.
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And this country-sized prison is one of our dear allies. It is hard to fathom, except from geopolitics and money.
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@Thomas Zaslavsky The more we and other countries can shift our dependence on Saudi Arabian oil, the less we have to kowtow to their oppressive customs and laws.
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Why did the US (eventually) shun and sanction South Africa for their treatment of their black citizens--but it's not even a topic of discussion when it's women suffering under an apartheid system? Saudi Arabia is one of the worst countries in the world, on multiple levels. We should stop buying their oil (we don't need it) and starve them into a new and democratic government. Meanwhile, give refuge to any Saudi woman who flees.
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@Cyntha
I have a one word answer: OIL.
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It is long past time for the world to hold the Kingdom responsible for it's actions. We need to stop selling them weapons. We need to stop defending them. We need to grant asylum to all the brave people fleeing the clutches of this cesspool of religious intolerance and misogyny, male and female, religious and apostate.
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At this point can we kick them out of the UN? Just freeze them out of international anything (i.e. no country contacts them until they adopt UN standards) and just hope they don’t try to attack us for it.
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@Edward Allen The Saudi kingdom is more deserving of sanctions than Iran or Korea. By a LONG SHOT.
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@JC Far from kicking them out of the UN. Saudi is part of both the UN HUman Rights and UN Woman Rights Council
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May you thrive, prosper, and follow your heart and your dreams.
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Anyone else hoping that Mike Pence isn't reading this ??? Also, thank you, Canada. You rock.
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@Phyliss Dalmatian
Pence? What about Kushner, Saudi Arabia's main man in the White House?
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We need a new Underground Railroad for refugees like Ms. Alqunun. I will be happy to host a station.
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Every woman who reads this needs to volunteer as you are doing Martha. We all need to provide a station on that Railroad and to provide help for individual women who flee Saudi Arabia as well as any other Nation that persecutes them just because they are women.
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The US should resolve not to sell any more weapons to Saudi until they make significant changes. If the US is brave enough to do this, then Canada, Britain, et al will follow. Come on, powerful, educated, western men, do you have that kind of courage? These girls sure do!
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Certainly the powerful, educated, western men in the US Congress (we won’t even mention the White House) don’t have the courage. They are a bunch of spineless chickens. I’ve lost track of how many times, as an average American male, I’ve apologized for their cowardly behavior in the last several years.
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While it is difficult for the U.S. to be the world's moral policeman, the Saudi regime (and culture) is one of the very worst and repressive in the entire world. It's not just that this regime is poisonous to its citizens, it also exports its primitive, nasty, intolerant religious doctrine to more moderate Muslims all over the world. Despite all the oil and petrodollars this is one regime that we should be disciplining. Trump and Kushner have only made things worse.
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@Richard Katz They also treat their domestic employees terribly so much so that the Philippines government does not want Filipinas to work there.
They also to this day keep slaves.
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@Richard Katz In 2013 I read a news report something like ' Saudi Arabia is sending OVER 500 mullahs to Pakistan' following the election win of Nawaz Sharif. These Saudi Mullahs are the ones doing greatest damage all over the world.
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@Tamza
Context, please.
The United States should not be doing business with Saudi Arabia absent human rights reforms that protect women.
It says everything about Trump, Pompeo and Jared Kushner that they are so eager to be in bed with a country of tyrants.
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Have any Americans had similar situations, such as gay men escaping from conservative Christian communities? It's easy to read this and think "how horrible it must be over there". But I bet there are similarities at home that are outside my experience.
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@Tarek
Yes, there are, but it is not part of the legal system.
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It reminds me very much of people escaping from Scientology, or polygamous cults. But the circumstances and dangers are much more dire for Saudi women.
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@Tarek Except gay men in this country are not legally required to have straight guardians who control their ability to work, travel, marry or move away. Kind of a significant difference, don't you think?
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Even beyond arbitrary detention of political dissidents, I've always believed that a country's failure to grant equal political and full civic participatory rights to women should be a fundamental trip wire for American foreign policy. In particular, these considerations should be a key condition of whether the United States provides foreign aid generally and especially weapons, military aid and high technology surveillance technologies.
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@Cazanoma Remember it has been not quite 100 years that women have right to vote in the USA>
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And if a country were treating its men with the same degree of oppression? Why on earth is this for any reason and to any degree tolerated by the global community? We in the west should set up an underground railroad to help these women get out and live free.
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@Patricia Goodson Remember Khashoggi?
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@Walter I'm honesty surprised that this was the story to resonate with the international community. Not that it wasn't tragic and didn't have its own gory details- no good tale ever includes 'and then he brought out the bone saw'- but with all of the misogyny in that culture, I would have bet on a tragedy to befall a woman/non-Muslim. Journalists death are unfortunately common in autocracies.
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This reminds me of the underground railroad that slaves used during the Civil War to flee to freedom in the northern states.
There are over 15 million women living in Saudi Arabia. What a tragedy they live under these conditions.
When I used to teach at university, I had a number of very privileged young men from Saudi Arabia in my classes, most in the U.S. to study engineering. Everyone who has ever taught college has had students who were disinterested or arrogant or not up to the work. But these young men showed such a degree of disrespect and even contempt for me, a young American woman, that I was constantly shocked. During my office hours, I was insulted, belittled, incessantly lectured about Islam. No other students from anywhere in the world ever showed me anything but courtesy and respect. I couldn't imagine having one of these men as my brother or father or husband with absolute control over my life, as sanctioned by both religious tradition and the state.
My best to these courageous young women. My heart goes out to them.
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@fast/furious
It's terrible that you had to experience such disrespect from students.
I also have taught at least 100s of young Saudi men who were almost, without exception, respectful, interesting and hard working. They never lectured about Islam and treated all the female teachers, including myself, very well.
The places I've worked in had very good induction procedures, which I think helped with cultural adjustment for these students.
I think the more Saudi students who visit the west, the more likely it is that the country will change due to their experiences. I think it is inevitable.
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@fast/furious Wish you and your one replier Daisi could communicate in order to find possible explanations for the striking differences between your experience and Daisis.
I am interested because in my 18 years as a volunteer at the Red Cross in Linköping SE I have met 1000s of mostly young asylum seekers/new citizens from everywhere with exception Saudi Arabia Just once have I met a young man from one of the dominantly Muslim countries who behaved as you report, and that was in 2018. It was a one-off, he never came back.
My Gmail is at my blog or reply here with a little more information. Ideally there would be some way for us many 1000s of commenters to communicate.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Citizen US Se
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I spent a year and a half in the Middle East, working for Arab men. The level of disrespect shown to US and UK professional expats was something I choose to remember only when I read something like this. Women have it 100 times worse, but the men subjected to the same behavior in my office is still the most disgusting thing I’ve ever been around in my career.
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Beyond the arbitrary detention of political dissidents, I've always believed that a country's failure to grant equal rights and reasonable civic participation to women should be a trip wire for American foreign policy. In particular, it should be a key condition of whether or not we provide aid and especially weapons to foreign regimes.
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Welcome to Canada to Ms Alqunun! She will find lots of programs to help her learn English and study. She will also find lots of other Saudi refugees who have decided to stay in Canada after MBS disrupted their studies because of a tweet by our foreign minister in support of the imprisoned activists seeking better human rights for women in Saudi Arabia. Canada will always stand up for women's rights. Women's rights are human rights!
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@Barbara Greene A negative side effect of this will be a major reduction in young Saudi women being allowed overseas to study in western countries
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@Tamza this may be but unfortunately when they are here, they are very closely 'supervised' by a male relative so the experience and opportunities may be limited.
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Good for you young lady. Just do not go into any Saudi embassy or consulate in the future to pick up paperwork!
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These young women and girls are so brave. Now that they’ve escaped the horrors of Saudi Arabia, I hope they’re able live life to the fullest and realize all their dreams!
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@Zareen
I hope so, too, but I suspect they will be hunted down by Saudi agents. How can these Saudi women refugees (slaves) be protected?
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An American, I worked in the Tragic Kingdom for a total of ten years, six of those recent. A Saudi colleague who was otherwise very gracious had the temerity to tell me that the United States is hated around the world. He also said he didn't want his son to study in the States and become Americanized and "do bad things." Saudis are in fact generally disliked even throughout the rest of the Arab world because of their reputation for arrogance. Time to look in your mirror, Kingdom citizens, and shift yourselves from the seventh century to the 21st. (That will take another 200 years.)
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The Saudi Royalty have demonstrated that it is barbaric. The murder of the Journalist was enough to prove to me that we should not be supporting this country. Fits right in with Kushner's philosophy.
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The US should take in these women. We could use the daring spirit and true love of freedom and liberty.
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@Clark the US has accepted a snall number of refugees from Saudi Arabia in the past, though I can't find data on gender or reason for fleeing. I hope those numbers improve in a few years. I believe our current administration's complicity with MbS in particular and view/treatment of asylum-seekers in general has eliminated us as a destination country. We are not trusted.
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Maybe Jared and Ivanka should discuss women's rights with MBS.
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@Caroline
What makes you think Jared and Ivanka aren't fine with this as long as they can make money off the Saudis?
The whole Trump family is transactional. They will put up with anything if they can get $$$ out of it.
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@Caroline
Why would they care? As they carry themselves just like MBS, seemingly sanctified to royalty, inherited from the earliest centuries, a nonsensical evolution in primitive thought processes. Ah, the human species, not far off since those primal epochs. Isn’t it disgusting? MBS, trump, only fractionally different.
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So, this medieval kingdom of Saudi Arabia is a so-called “friend” of the United States???
The Saudi King and prince, ruling as absolute dictators, treat half their population, all women, as property, as slaves.
This is an abomination! These rulers, this kingdom are not our friends.
Free the Saudi women from their bonds, then we can talk about the country to country relationship.
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And you should hear about how they treat their female servants!
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Any thing in excess is too bad.
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@Zabala Zoron
so what you are saying if the Saudies were less accessive, everything would be fine.
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This is a scary country and I advise other commenters to be careful what they say in an online publication!
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If we censor ourselves on an American web site out of fear of the Saudis or their accomplices, the Trumps and Kushners, we've already lost our freedoms, too.
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Where are American feminists when you need them? I forgot! They only wear their pink hats to demonstrate against imaginary problems (the Trump administration) or feel more self righteous. Oh, so much waisted sanctimony. Let them go demonstrate in Riyadh!
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Did you forget that the Trump administration supports Saudi Arabia? Just one of the many reasons women, and people who care about women, protest Trump.
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@Luisa C.The same right wing men and women who support Trump because of greed, racism, and Christian fundamentalism (take your pick) supports the blessed fundamentalist Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, a country and regime created by Texas oilmen. The only country in the world named after a FAMILY whose alliance with the robber barons of the US goes back to the 1930s. At least know your history before spouting off.
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I guess you haven't been paying attention to non-Fox news, or you'd know that women have enough to protest about in this country.
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I really wish these brave women all the best. Saudi Arabia must be a difficult place to live for a women, especially if she has a conservative religious family. I can't imagine having to flee for your life from your family, the very people who are supposed to protect you.
I hope these women will make a happy life for themselves in their adopted countries.
I also hope Saudi Arabia will emerge from the Dark Ages, but I'm not holding my breath.
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May Miss Alqunun find her new life all she hopes it would be. I admire her courage.
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MBS may allow women to drive, but they’ll always be in a gilded cage as long as the Guardianship system is in place. Western countries like UK and US are happy to look the other way in exchange for defense purchases and similar forms of quid pro quo
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We are happy to welcome you to Canada! But, you're going to need some other clothes. Before you get off the plane. You won't be wearing T-shirt and jeans until May, if then.
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So the relatives of these women feel they have "shamed the country." The real shame is in the treatment of women as chattel. Some of us are old enough to remember the 1970s story of "The Princess:" a royal woman who fled to be with her boyfriend. The Saudi government tracked them down, brought them back, and forced the Princess to watch the public execution of her boyfriend before she herself was also killed. Barbaric in this century, or any other.
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Not only that, arjayeff, but when one of the British TV companies - I think it was ITV, in 1983 (?) - had the temerity to broadcast a program, 'The Death of a Princess', the Saudis broke off diplomatic relations with the UK, not because the story was untrue but because the government refused to ban the program.
p.
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@arjayeff The Princess' story was tragic. She was estranged from her husband for years but couldn't gain a divorce because of social stigma and the husband wanting a connection to the royal family. Her execution was public and done primarily for propaganda purposes; so the King could claim that ALL people were subject to Islamic law, despite cherry-picking which royal victim to display: a young woman that only wanted to live her life. It's barbaric.
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As much as I welcome this wonderful news and am happy for Rahaf that she is free at last, I cannot escape the worrying thought that her life might still be in danger even in Canada given what happened to other women who did not succeed in fleeing, or, worse, what happened to Mr. Kashoggi in Istanbul on October 2, 2018. One simply cannot trust the Saudis. There aren't enough shoes in the entire universe to throw at the despicable House of Saud despots. How about commissioning artists worldwide to create a shoe sculpture which then is put up in front of, and showing its sole to, the Saudi Arabian Embassy? I, for one, would be happy to join the crowdfunding for it.
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One cannot read this without great empathy for these women trapped in a society that devalues them as human beings. I don't pretend to know a solution, but aiding and abetting the Saudi kingdom in its various nefarious machinations, such as its war in Yemen, is most certainly not one.
I hope we open our borders to give these Saudi women refuge and freedom.
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