Getting tough on China is a dilemma for Democrats because they have to choose between love of country and self-interest.
Note that nothing is reported about what kind of intelligence should have been gathered. Very likely it concerns commercial information to better Huawei's chances of selling equipment. But admitting that this is just part of hard sales techniques would undermine Washington's accusations against Huawei and so it is deliberately kept vague.
For me it sounds like a cheap campaign to sell more Cisco equipment.
1
I worked for Huawei as an engineer in the US for seven years just before I retired (I'm not Chinese). I have NEVER seen any evidence of these claims from the NSA that Huawei equipment is embedded with spyware. British Telecom used a great deal of Huawei 3G/4G equipment. Before using it, BT and Cambridge University did a thorough deconstruction of the equipment to verify that there were no backdoors, etc. Only then did they widely deploy it. Britain, and the other Five Eyes countries were recently pressured by the US to forbid the use of Huawei 5G equipment. Again, no evidence. I'd say this qualifies as an unfair business practice, something of which China is routinely accused.
The NSA offers not a shred of evidence to back up its claims, and, of course, they don't have to because they can claim that all such evidence is classified. On the other hand, it is widely believe that Cisco Systems HAS cooperated with the NSA in providing backdoors, just as major US carriers have cooperated with the NSA.
It is well-documented that the NSA broke into Huawei's data center in Shenzhen and stole proprietary information (including the CEO's emails). https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-chinese-servers-seen-as-spy-peril.html
This is a case of spy-vs-spy. BOTH the US and China are engaged in espionage. Just ONCE I'd like to see the evidence that the NSA claims to have regarding Huawei. But, the NYT continues to uncritically parrot these charges.
15
@ShenBowen Did you actually delve into every lot, looking for customized chipsets?
3
The threat from Beijing is the challenge of our time. Make no mistake about that. If we continue to feed that monster, the CCP are going to spread what Xi Jinping calls their "alternative system of governance" as widely around the world as they can.
Our challenge is exacerbated by our deadly bipartisanship. We can't blame Trump for that, nor can we blame Pelosi or Schumer. We can only blame ourselves.
It's way past time to put aside our domestic differences and face the real threats to our society. The most malignant of all comes from Beijing.
13
Poland is not categorized as a "western country". It is part of the EU but it isn't in Western Europe nor is it an offshoot like the U.S. or Australia. Why wouldn't the article just refer to it as European or the more exact Central/Eastern European.
5
I share outrage and puzzlement below over these indictments.
And I applaud the Poles for taking this action.
This is indeed the so called "Belt and Road" but more as in "noose and spying"
Increasingly, it is getting clearer that what we have long suspected - modern China has been built on intellectual property theft and then, soldifying it's strength with throwing money around to keep these victims hostages.
I have been to China many times ncluding Tibet. It's definitely an amazing place compared to what it was before Deng Xi Ping which I also visited.
But this continued reliance on thefts, spying is about to start unbundling all these susuepect initiatives.
The POTUS has bluntly stated that it is our moeny that built China.
Add to the money, IP theft and spying.
6
Even if one still labors under the delusion that the internet can ever be secure, one still has to reckon with the more materially obvious: most chips made for most gadgets, ranging from your cell phone to your pacemaker to the electric grid to our newest military equipment are made in China. And the Chinese leadership, as with that of any other country, would be derelict in its national self-serving duty if it did not embed clandestine code in those chips allowing those gadgets to be shut down or controlled.
Don't blame the Chinese or American governments for doing what governments always do when they can. Rather, look in the mirror and consider whether your own increasing use of and advocacy for increased internet-connected gadgetry has enabled this, both in terms of financial incentives for corporations and grass roots pressure on politicians.
When the lights go out in your home or an F-35 gets remotely hijacked don't be too surprised. And keep in mind that the primary effect of the drones and self-driving cars everyone is all gaga about will be to create massive unemployment for suicide bombers and assassins. But, hey, that's a small price to pay for seeing on (anti)social media what your friends ate for dinner.
Am I a hypocrite for saying this on an internet-connected gadget? Of course. But, just because I am a hypocrite, it doesn't mean I am wrong.
7
People the world over, not just Americans, still pretend to themselves that there ever can be such a thing as a secure internet.
The tech companies, with almost universal government connivance (ironically, some partial exceptions in autocracies), profitably go about the business of selling heroin to junkies, candy to infants. And no more than telling a little kid that lots of candy is bad for her or a junkie that heroin is bad for him, will telling people the internet can never be secure, private, or reliably honest change their addiction to it, especially regarding (anti)social media, the fentanyl of the internet.
How many people who vehemently condemn interference in American elections, especially that of Russia, through phony online stories and ads, as well as through Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and the like, nonetheless proclaim their indignation on these very same platforms, thus contributing to their "legitimacy" and profitability? At the least, one might hope that junkies, whether drug or electronic, would acknowledge their responsibility as enablers of the addiction peddlers and the carnage they create.
As Tom Lehrer sang several decades ago:
"They give the kids free samples,
Because they know full well,
That today's young innocent faces,
Will be tomorrow's clientele."
4
"The arrest of the Huawei employee is almost certain to escalate tensions between Western countries and China over the company, which the authorities in the United States have accused of acting as an arm of the Chinese government and making equipment designed for spying."
You mean like Alexa and Facebook are currently being used to spy on citizens worldwide? Why the blatant hypocrisy here?
8
This is another example of the Western ploy after the initial arrest of CFO of Huawei to stifle competition from China. Huawei has smartphone market sales second to Samsung and ahead of Apple. Huawei is competing in 5 G space against US.
3
Hu Xijin, the editor in chief of Global Times, a state-run, nationalist newspaper in China, took a swipe at Poland on Twitter on Friday, writing: “Anything in Poland that is worthy of stealing for Huawei? Polish national security department flatters itself.”
.
This is actually quite funny. Poland must have *something* attractive about it -- Mr Hu was censured for using state funds without permission to visit there two years ago:
.
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/policies-politics/article/1906422/outspoken-chinese-state-tabloid-editor-censured
.
Global Times makes Fox look like the Guardian. It's the most coarse nationalistic paper on the planet.
8
Why is it we worry about infiltration based on ownership of the company when any employee with sufficient permissions can insert malware into equipment and nationality may be less of a motivation than ideology or money.
3
The Belt and Road Initiative in action.
10
"Huawei has software that sends information back to China" is there any objectivity in that statement. it's called the cloud , microsoft, google, amazon, facebook etc. etc. all do the same to their cloud banks of data. Only because China is a communist country is this a issue. Why not just state this is the reason to shut the door. This is not spying it the cyber world we all live and communicate through.
10
@david there's a big difference between giving your data to FB so they can service ads of Taco Bell's new burrito and data leaking from our defense contractor, military and law enforcement personal so that China has a strategic advantage when they decide to it's time to expand...
6
> Hu Xijin, the editor in chief of Global Times, a state-run, nationalist newspaper in China, took a swipe at Poland on Twitter on Friday, writing: “Anything in Poland that is worthy of stealing for Huawei? Polish national security department flatters itself.”
Wow, that sure was the wrong thing to say!
Don't look down on the Poles, Comrade Editor, they're the ones who actually broke Enigma, and they led the undermining of European Communism, beginning in 1979. Underestimate them not.
20
Official Chinese scoffing at serious charges is as unpersuasive as official Russian scoffing. It is their only move when caught red-handed and fools no one.
16
@David Branner Well if ever the Chinese start making kielbasa we'll know it wasn't Huawei that stole the formula.
2
The question is whether the charges prove to be substantiated with actual proof of spying or theft of trade secrets, or other unlawful activities. That should be the sole main focus - whether there is a crime committed or not- not about “picking sides” as many of these articles tend to portray.
Obviously, if there is in fact unlawful activities, e.g. breach of state sanctions, spying, etc. then no matter what side of the fence, wrong is wrong. Unless, the implication is that the charges are trumped up or otherwise unsubstantiated, and there is no basis for the charges, which remains to be seen.
1
The Polish government has a history of being a stooge of US,
so I will not be surprised if it is doing something as a favor of US against Huawei, which has been at the cross hair of US and other western government. My question is if Huawei and any other Chinese tech companies are such a security threat to the west, there should have at least have some evidence to show (Show me the money!). So far to me it appears to be entirely a PR campaign to prevent or even ban the Chinese tech products from US and other western market. And I'm reminded the Super Micro motherboards hacked by "Chinese military units" story by Bloomberg three month ago, which generated such a bad publicity against Chinese products in US. but nevertheless denied by every companies involved. Up til now I still haven't seen a single piece of evidence for the story. So where did the story come from?
8
@Bill Stones
“The Polish government has a history of being a stooge of US,”
The country of Oceania has always been our enemy.
Spare us all the tawdry Chinese propaganda “Bill”.
12
@Bill Stones blame America first.
2
Good for them. We non-Super power countries have to stand up to these nations that think they can act with impunity.
America has given up so others should act.
9
It is time for the free Western World to reclaim its strategic independence from China.
Relocate manufacturing; restrict technology transfers; ban asset purchases.
China is no friend of freedom, democracy or our core values and it’s time to treat them as such.
Our political and business leaders have been naive in believing that our enemy will become our friend if we are nice to them.
39
@Gary Sung
You do not sound educated at all. Educated people do not employ expressions like "under educated" in addressing others. But, it may be different in PRC.
11
@Gary Sung why should the US NSA or CIA tell China (aka Huawei) anything about sources or methods? Huawei has a long history of both intellectual property theft and sending user activity back to China.
8
@Gary Sung
I have multiple university degrees and still studying.
While the Chinese do not deserve the benefit of the doubt and while their ability, willingness and success in stealing technological trade secrets is common knowledge, I am skeptical of our domestic intentions. No, I don’t want Beijing covertly gaining knowledge through this company’s hardware. But this all can be a smokescreen to protect American businesses under the auspices of headline grabbing words like “spying”. Our government is not above reproach and this article, like most recent reporting on the subject, is largely smoke and mirrors allegations.
4
@Eric it's important to note that Cisco and other US tech companies that produce networking equipment have been approached by US spy agencies attempting to co-opt them have publicly rebuffed by those companies. In at least one case I believe US operatives diverted and altered equipment and the company in question intercepted it and refused to ship it. Nobody in China would dare defy the government in such a way.
10
exactly it will be interesting to see all these allegations proven in a court of law
2
China is unable to separate its politics, military and government from its industrial policy in the same way that the Soviet Union could not and would not separate sports from their ideology. Not that the US is blameless -- the CIA and NSA have had well-documented projects to spy on users of American technology. The difference is that US companies like Apple and Cisco have fought those efforts, while Huawei seems to embrace them.
14
@Roy
"unable"??
The regime's foundation lies in the fact that the party mixes everything in order to get what it wants.
6
Chinese espionage is an oxymoron. State control and oversight is considered normal in China, they don't see anything wrong with what they're doing. They're simply trying to play by the same rules in the Western hemisphere but fortunately governments are waking up to the threat this poses to our way of life. I am not a fan of our President and many of his policies, however his response, as it relates to this, situation was overdue.
22
The Chinese are known for their theft of technology and are controlled from the top down with the military being the major player. Why wouldn't the Chinese use Huawei as the major espionage tool for their government. Their enemies are willfully putting bugs in their homes and control of their nations in China's hands. Anyone that believes China isn't back-dooring software for spying and outside control is fooling themselves. I bet the CIA and NSA won't allow these products anywhere the building or staff. They simply can't be trusted.
31
@markd
they do not have to even steal. The technology is handed to China via many channels. Including a recent history of building mirror research labs in China with happy American faculty helping to set them up.
14
and yes, we educate huge number of students from China at top American universities. We are allowing to build a highway for technology transfer from US to China, starting with providing easy access to education at the best academic centers. In 2006/2017 there were 67k students from China studying in US, in 2016/2017 350k. China does not need spies, when we hand know-how for mere tuition.
19
@Ellen
I forgot to add the link
https://www.statista.com/statistics/372900/number-of-chinese-students-that-study-in-the-us/
these statistics refer to higher education institutions. As we know many private boarding schools are filling with boarders from Chine as well. Pretty soon technologies like Apple will be replaced by identical Chinese brands, maybe improved, built on free access to best know-how in US.
12
Let's see Ellen.... How to lose a tech war.... Prevent some of the best students in the world from studying and doing research in American universities.
4
@Gordon
actually, Chinese students are not best in the world. Graduate programs in science and engineering are filled with Chinese students due to lack of interest from US applicants. Maybe we should change culture and make getting graduate degrees in these areas noble.
13
"It was unclear whether the arrests in Poland had been requested by the United States." Well ... given that Poland is one of the US's "staunchest" allies in Europe I think we will soon learn these very timely actions - from the perspective of actions taken against Huawei in Canada also under US direction - were well coordinated with US authorities. It also demonstrates some nimble "jurisdiction shopping" by US authorities for their latest run at Huawei. Poland will be a much more pliable and "results-oriented" partner in this matter than Canada. In granting bail in the Canadian case the judge strongly criticized the US "evidence" as quote "highly speculative." Doubtful the Poles will be equally problematic.
Both the Canadian and Polish US-led actions are all part of a concerted and well-planned effort to torpedo Huawei before it becomes an even greater threat to US dominance in telecommunication infrastructure around the world. The concern with Huawei equipment is really not so much they enable Chinese spying as the Chinese supplier makes it much more awkward for well established US spying. Snowden's revelations laid bare US tech companies cooperation with US intell in providing backdoors for espionage and other activities. So international customers looking at the options pretty much have to pick their poison.
10
@Belasco Just FYI. Polish Intelligence Agency has been gathering evidence for the past few months and they claim to have hard evidence in their case. One of the arrested is Polish citizen.
9
The traitor Snowden? “Pick your poison” equates the US to enemies from overseas. Check your moral compass.
@Bart
Understood. But in this case the Polish Intell groups would be acting very much the eager junior partner to their US counterparts and coordinating with them. This is why the qualifier is in the NYT piece about whether the US "requested" the arrest.
4
There is no daylight between the Chinese State and its corporations. An exec who asserts even the slightest degree of independence is found to be corrupt, avoiding taxes etc. Through Huawei, ZTE the PRC found a brilliant way to send Trojan horses across the world, just as its diaspora in the West represents an ideal mechanism for channeling know-how, information and expertise.
Its suppression of minorities (Tibetans, Uighurs), aggression towards the neighbors, threats to Taiwan, police surveillance and thought control, wholesale extermination of iconic species make it obvious that we are not talking about a benign actor on the world's stage.
57
I heard a horrifying story that Chinese President Xi sends txt messages via Huawei’s platform to any Huawei users (who set their phone in Chinese to communicate, of course, a sign of loyalty to China) to urge them to spy on everything they find weird (e.g., running rabbit inside airport) everyday so that they can report back and get discount in their monthly phone bill, which immensely infuriates Apple users in China because they won’t receive any text from Xi, leaving them to pay the full bill.
8
After the previous arrest of the Huawei executive, my Chinese friend says government propaganda provoked anti-American outrage in China. Any government that can control hundreds of millions of people in this way is dangerous.
28
So true. Giving China a seat at the table of international trade was done with the expectation that it would cause China to soften its stance on human rights and adopt free market practices. That has not worked out. China chose state/party controlled companies, theft of technology, control over all sources of news and information and government crack-downs on all dissent. It is time for the west to admit the failure of this experiment and push China to play by the same rules as everyone else. The US and EU need to speak with one voice- if you want access to our markets, you need to play by the same basic rules as everyone else- no jailing journalists, no stealing IP, no domestic partner joint venture requirement for foreign investments, no internet censorship. It will be tough to do, but it is only going to get tougher from here on.
10
@Fast Ronnie You hit the nail on the head!
It seems obvious that the Chinese government is using Huawei and other tech companies to conduct espionage. China is a vast consumer of illicit information: state secrets, technology, defense, commerce, research, etc. Countries that let Huawei conduct business within their boundaries are being careless and naive.
35
Telecom equipment provides “root” access to sensitive information, including practically every detail about what individuals do, where, and when. The possibilities are especially insidious if spyware is installed by manufacturers on both mobile devices and infrastructure. The potential value of this information to state-level intelligence agencies is enormous. As a de facto state-owned company, it should be no surprise that Huawei would pursue nefarious methods at the direction of Chinese intelligence agencies.
The threat is very real. If you could access the mobile camera and microphone of every senior executive in the world, I think you’d be able to unearth some serious “kompromat” and insight into closely held secrets.
111
Will see because Huawei was going to play a major role in building 5G network in Poland together with T-Mobile and Orange.
6
Net neutrality should be the first line of defense against the aggregation of power through information. The second should be the right to be forgotten. Deleting all your personal info every evening you would go a long way to insulating yourself from cyber influence. Trying to regulate hardware is probably the most expensive and ineffective approach.
16
@Epicurus
Net neutrality is a notion about the internet being application and user agnostic and not being used to confer advantage on particular users.
Net neutrality does not address the issue of a supposedly trusted intermediary intercepting private communications.
That is the issue with Huawei.
Interception, inspection, violation of individual privacy.
These are the basic elements of Chinese Communist Party control at home.
Why would they abandon this approach abroad ? It’s how they roll.
You can be assured there will be a strategic plan in China that says (1) create a mobile communications brand closely aligned to the State; (2) provide it with an unbalanced playing field and pricing model to destroy foreign competitors; (3) infiltrate its products into critical foreign networks; (4) exploit privileged network access and backdoors for political and commercial advantage.
The brand is Huawei.
China has a strategy; coherent leadership; and the desire to be dominant.
Meanwhile US politicians struggle to keep Government open and the Moron-In-Chief can’t string a sensible sentence together without a teleprompter.
3
It's funny that Poland, a country that has just neutered its judiciary and was where the CIA ran one of its "black sites", is used as some kind of objective standard for jurisprudence when it comes to evaluating Chinese espionage.
The campaign against Huawei seems completely motived by the US protecting its 5G than any technological espionage by the Chinese.
It's bizarre that we've been ok with the Chinese manufacturing all sorts of everyday things because of the cheap labor they supply, but as soon as they want to compete in a technologically sensitive area, we have to root them out completely because of possible surveillance.
The Russians have been in the telecommunication market in Europe for years now and nothing about how the Russian investments present a dire threat to democracy.
It is a throwback to the period when cheap Chinese labour was imported into North America to build railroads, the promptly kicked out the second they considered settling here to live.
16
@Paul F
It’s not like the imported Chinese railroad workers, it’s worse! It’s like Ghengis Khan invading China and forcing them to smoke opium and learn Japanese while a fleet of white European ships steams by laughing and humiliating China.
Or maybe it’s just common sense to keep out Chinese telecom equipment.
10
@Paul FHow I am afraid you are very much misinformed. And very naive. Poland would not risk good relations with China which is keen to invest in Poland if it had no evidence pointing to espionage. And if you look at intelligence reports and past behaviors of Chinese Gov including manufacturing micro-chips and putting them in hardware to spy on US companies you can clearly see the pattern of behavior.
16
@Bart
And the USA never does espionage?
1
Said this many times China is brilliant in its work but stupid in its method to establish companies in areas of US dependency. There are stooges and wimps that depended heavily on the US and would do everything they could even without evidence as long as the US object they wouldn't go forward. Poland is the only country in Europe that depends solely on the US it'd do anything to please their boss. And the so-called 5 yes country that could also blindly follows the lead. Is there no other country that China could establish a sound business first? The biggest spies in the world are the US and believe that other countries does the same.
3
@Daniel This is bias and not very objective analysis. China has been stealing intellectual property of US companies for decades. Same with EU and force technology transfers. This forum seems to be a subject to Chinese troll farms. Are you on the clock for Chinese cause it sure seems like it
12
@Bart This is not bias none of the allegations have proven to be true. I could also label you an Anti China but I will not do so because many like you fall victim to the mainstream media. The NSA been spying around the world I don't like China policy I am just stating their idiotic way of doing business with countries that looks upto the US
1
You don't 'plead not guilty' when the cops arrest you. Nor are you detained for 3 months by the police - that would breach European Human Rights legislation, which Poland has signed up to as an EU member.
I guess that these Huawei guys have actually appeared in a court at some stage - which makes the absence of details of their crime a bit puzzling.
Unless Poland works like many 'free' Western counties, the UK for example, in riding roughshod over an individuals freedoms on the basis of 'national security'.
In Britain, you can be tried in secret, jury-less courts, where you won't see the evidence against you and a state defender is appointed for you in place of any other lawyer you might wish to argue your case. Add to that the fact that you can be detained for questioning here for a whole month, effectively abolishing your 800 year old right to 'habeus corpus'. You have only limited access to legal representation during those 28 days.
The bad guys must be very, very bad if this is what the good guys can do.
6
@nolongeradoc
At least Poland isn’t building new concentration camps, as China is doing at this moment.
16
@NorthernVirginia
Please keep in mind that Poland did not build old concentration camps either. That was the odious work of Nazi Germany, a brutal occupying force that was determined to exterminate all "inferior" peoples to make living space for the "master" race.
1
Europe can and should ban all Chinese telecom equipment. I recommend that China instead try selling it to Russia and see how enthusiastic that country is to embrace Chinese surveillance of all Russian electronic communications. I doubt N. Korea would buy any - if they were allowed.
40
Even if your personal tech product is a US designed/branded device, it is probably manufactured in China. Whether it’s your smart TV or your phone or your kitchen device or alarm clock ... they all come from the same companies and factories.
While living in Europe, I’ve seen new Huawei fiber optic cable being laid in residential neighborhoods ... I’ve also heard tact government services, such as street lights and security/surveillance cameras and systems, both use Chinese manufactured hardware and are controlled using Chinese software ...
11
@Subscriber
Open up any Huawei phone or equipment, you will find more chips made in US than in China. As China has to import more than 80% of semi-conductor chips used in its products. So technically they can be more likely used to spy for US than for China, but we never hear about it until exposed by Snowdon.
2
Next they will claim they were trying to get Hillary elected.
4
The inherent problem in Communist China IS there is no way to disconnect the specials interest people who manage their large enterprises and the official or "semi-oddicial" power brokers of the Communist Party.It would be like all major US enterprises being connected management personnelwise in such a way to the Republican or Democratic Parfty.
12
@NORMAN MARTIN
The US government is tied to business by lobbyists who for mere pennies dominate no matter what party is in power.
10
The Chinese are in pursuit of total global domination and will use any means possible to get there. Laws, Agreements and Treaties mean nothing to them. What is even scarier is that their mindset is similar to the capitalists and colonialists from Europe and the United States from the 19th and 20th centuries including the racial superiority and prejudice. This will not end well
48
@philip When you write :: " What is even scarier is that their mindset is similar to the capitalists and colonialists from Europe and the United States from the 19th and 20th centuries including the racial superiority and prejudice." --- THAT SOUNDS a little bit like some of the Democratic politicians talking points --- "racial superiority and prejudice." When you write " their mindset " I don't think you are comparing today's Chinese management elite with the former US and European capitalists and colonialists. ( One Big exception the Opium War with China ) Therefore the real culprit is the Chinese Communist Party officials and their closely associated " Red Oligarchs ". The latter generally getting user- friendly interviews on CNN and other outlets. You are so right with your CLOSING :: " This will not end well " Particularly the Chinese financing traps they set on their big infrastructure projects in Africa and South America. You are spot on. Sad but true I believe the Cold War is not really over --- It is just being fought with China economically--- At least for the time being.
5
so all you guys forget about the prism project?
4
The head of sales for a corporation in a foreign country is supposed to learn about the country they're assigned to. This is how they obtain the knowledge to make decisions that effect sales in that country.
When the corporation is embedded with the government, that person becomes an agent of the foreign government... aka a spy.
It's unclear how the man from the French company, Orange, was involved. Was he working for Huawei against the interests of his own company? That would make him both an industrial criminal and a spy.
7
It looks clearer every day why it was such a mistake to allow China into the World Trade Organization at the urging of Bill Clinton. Rogue states never change; they just become empowered.
68
@Mondoman get ready to be surprised
2
Chile, Taiwan and South Korea are all countries that evolved from authoritarianism to democracy as their citizens became wealthier and demanded a say in governance. I wouldn't be surprised if the same transition started happening in China a few decades from now.
2
It's utter insanity that we allow so much of our consumer tech to be made in whole or in part in China. I hope this trade cease-fire we currently have with China fails and both sides escalate-- not to modify China's behavior (it won't), but to modify US companies' behavior. China needs to become associated in business leaders' minds with arbitrary, capricious detentions, strong-arm extortion of technology and trade secrets, and unfair suppression of foreign competition; I hope businesses come to understand that by compromising to do business in the Chinese market, you are nurturing a predator and feeding your future competition.
61
@Alexander
Well, you know China's response to Westerners' moaning about having to hand over proprietary tech there.
'Our rules; if you don't accept 'em, forget mking or selling stuff in China'.
Companies are driven by profit, not politics. Which is why companies like Google and Apple and Siemens and Alstom (ie American and European) end up handing the secrets over. It's the price they have to pay.
7
@Alexander
"It's utter insanity that we allow so much of our consumer tech to be made in whole or in part in China"
If it weren't so, America companies would not be making the trillions of dollars that they do now. Where else, can these companies sell a brand-name shirt for $ 75.00 which costs them $ 5.00 to make?
5
@nolongeradoc I do agree that is their standard response. There comes a point; however, when it is up to sovereign nations to intercede on behalf of their corporations against predatory practices of foreign nations; I believe we crossed that point long ago. We can't force the Chinese to change the way they do business, but we can start taking steps to damage their economy, and in particular industries they care about (science and technology), by blocking access to our markets of those products. We can also start prohibiting our corporations from doing business with the Chinese if it would require technology transfer. Of course the Chinese will hit back, but in my mind that is also a good thing-- as it encourages our corporations to offshore anywhere but China whenever possible. The more tense, the more chance for trade war escalation, the better for limiting the attack surface of our economy to China. Of course I understand that this is damaging to our economy as well as the Chinese' economy, but I'm starting to believe that this pain is worth it if it means we can disentangle China from our supply chains.
16
''ZTE, were effectively arms of the Chinese government whose equipment was used for spying. Security firms have reported finding software installed on Chinese-made phones that sends users’ personal data to China.''
Wasn't that the company Trump saved after getting Chinese loans and trademark protections?
37
How long before China arrests a Polish person working in China for supposed crimes against state security? China’s size gives it immense power, but China should remember the story of the elephant and the ants before trying to take on the entire world.
51
@JEG
Poland is a member of the European Union - the largest, richest market on the planet. The EU isn't an 'ant'.
5
@JEG, talk to Canada about the likelihood.
1
As much as liberals complain about Russia, China is infinitely more the menace than Russia could even dream of becoming.
China works against our interests on a host of issues- national security, intellectual property of American companies, tremendous trade imbalances, and financial interests. Even the Paris Accord was a give away to China. We have such a co-dependent relationship with them – it puts us at tremendous risk. The interests of the US and other nations are at real risk re our policies with China,
We should lower our trade with China to the trade levels with Russia, i.e. 0. Also, why do top spots at American universities, and then good jobs at American companies go to Chinese nationals, displacing Americans in the process? Where is the logic in that?
Something similar as happened in Poland, also happen with Canada.
We need to wake up to the risk that we are facing re China.
77
@Philly
The spots at American universities goes to Chinese students because they can afford them. Unlike a growing part of the former US middle class. When less and less US students can afford an education the universities have been forced to look abroad. All the result of Republican politics.
41
@Philly And there is the big business of birth tourism, with these babies being granted automatic U.S. citizenship and all the benefits, including the right to vote in U.S. elections.
24
@Philly
The liberals that are complaining about Russia are concerned about this administrations interactions with them. Of course China is a much larger concern, and the rest of your points are very disturbing, the United States has certainly taken its eye of the ball in many areas most importantly the education of its own citizens.
15
Why would the Chinese government's interest in collecting data be any different than the data collected by Apple, Facebook, Samsung, etc. What would the Chinese government learn by spying on everyday citizens? Are these citizens privy to government secrets?
People in sensitive areas of work for governments or militaries should avoid this tech; politicians should avoid this tech; do everyday citizens really need to worry? Is the Chinese government going to learn anything by spying on everyday citizens besides the commercially profitable consumer habits? Isn't that the same info gathered by Google everytime I go through a drive through?
This all seems silly to me; to be worried - as if Xi Jinping is watching me type this comment and smiling with evil intent. I doubt that very much. If it's wrong for the Chinese to collect information and spy on citizens, then it's wrong for every other tech giant the do so. The attack on Huawei is about market shares, not espionage.
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@PJ after watching geo location for a while, they might be able to figure out how close you are related to military (or if you are military personnel) and they might figure out military movements, just a wild example...but there could be a lot more information derived...
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@gomath
That's a good point. Thanks for bringing that up. Or even executives in sensitive corporate interests related to government or military (since it's all been privatized anyways). As a past and possible future user of Huawei Tech, because it's way good tech, I think American tech should lead the way in protecting privacy. I'm not on any social media. No reason for me to share my private life without getting paid, but my personal safety or privacy doesn't feel anymore threatened by Huawei than Google.
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@PJ Agree, the detentions of top HUAWEI employees are just to curb the company from growing stronger. Because we all can see HUAWEI's mobil devices and communication technologies is becoming better than some other company's. politics determines all. Most of the western countries choose to follow American path as they alway did.
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What's the back story here? I agree that Huawei is very likely a government agency in some respects, but given Poland's current right-leaning government and its affinity for the Trump Administration one can reasonably wonder if there's more to this story than just an arrest....
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@Paul. Why must people politicize everything? Just because I don't like Trump doesn't mean I have to oppose everything Trump admin does, including things that are defending the national interests of the US over the Chinese, who are clearly not our friends.
There are other ways to be anti-Trump without sabotaging your own country's interests.
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