All I can say is that people in the private sector, i.e. %99.99 of the workers, do not even get half of the benefits that non military government workers enjoy.
i.e. low to no interest loans to carry them through the shutdown.
work another job in the meantime without affecting unemployment status
file for unemployment
Cost of living adjustment on pensions for their whole lives
Almost impossible to fire once a gov job is secured.
they now make alot more than private sector workers for the same job skills
So this is the smallest violin playing for those affected non military government workers . If they are unable to take advantage of all the opportunities at their disposal to 'survive' a government shutdown then maybe we don't have the best people in those jobs.
Also, the rest of the nation is doing fine so I am sure we can use a %20 cut back on non military government workers and do fine.
I want to know why people who live in GA, FL, NY, and WA want a wall so badly that they're willing to personally sacrifice as if it were war-time rationing.
How is it possible that after 40 years in a federal position with top notch benefits, you could only have two months worth of savings? For that matter, 40 years in ANY type of job to only have that much in savings? What am I missing??
8
Before I feel sorry for these people who have good jobs and excellent benefits, and will get paid for not working, I would like to know how much into debt they are with things they don't really need.
I was a single mother and was making a meager wage and still managed to save money every month and continue my education. Of course, I didn't have many extras, no big TV, the newest smart phones, not the latest expensive big car, no vacations. I never had pets. I never had my hair fixed every week. I never had a job where I would be required to take 3 weeks off and still get paid.
I spent my money in a responsible manner.
4
@esp Federal employees have savings and they spend their money responsibly, why assume otherwise? When you were a single mother scrimping and saving to continue your education, at what point did you build an emergency fund sufficient to last you weeks--possibly months--in case some entity decided to take your job hostage? How would you have dealt with the heating, water, and electricity bills? Did you face home and car insurance bills, house payments/rent, transportation expenses, medical and dental bills not covered by insurance, a whole bevy of taxes, and, of course, costs related to child raising? You imply that all federal employees have the same benefits (these depend on many factors including seniority), or that most are earning beyond 50K-70K (salaries are a matter of public record), or somehow, some way, they have brought this disaster onto themselves through profligate spending and debt. Perhaps this helps rationalize your lack of empathy. Given the scorn the certain critics routinely heap on financially-strapped single mothers, you surely can understand how frustrating it is to have your very real work and financial challenges reduced to a cartoonishly simplistic right-wing stereotype.
7
@esp
It's always the same argument about people spending on junk, and increasingly I just don't think that's the case. Housing prices, retirement saving and student loan debt as well as healthcare costs are why employed people can't save.
I live paycheck to paycheck mainly because I try and save anything extra for retirement. I do have a small buffer that would cover 3 months rent. But after I've paid for basics and put away what I need to for retirement, there isn't much less. A smartphone is a necessity for my job as is a regular haircut. Vacations aren't a regular thing, but I need to travel to see family. I have looked into cheaper rent, but it doesn't exist without increasing my travel costs for work.
I think what should happen is to allow unemployed/laid off workers to access retirement funds without additional penalty beyond taxes.
4
The so-called wall funds of 5 Billion is "chump change". It's only a beginnig, wall to be maintained, further security, cost of purchasing land and other hidden costs. How many more Billions will be needed?
Who pays? Everyone reading this email! And their children.
4
Appalled at the number of people with good quality, steady reliable jobs who have not manged to save a penny out of a paycheck as protection against lean times. Didn't any of these workers have a grandparent or parent who told them about the Great Depression and the value of self disciplined savings ?
7
@glork We had good steady paychecks and had zero debt except for a mortgage with 10 years left. My husband had a near fatal-stroke. Our co-pay was 20% and we paid it off and paid it off and paid it off until we were forced into bankruptcy 7 years later. So much for financial prudence!
7
If a large number of air traffic controllers or TSA screeners dd not show up to work, this would end in a heartbeat. This self-made crisis will end when the public demands action from Congress and the president when they are unable to conduct business.
13
@alan, I agree with you. I just wish they would do it. Air transportation continues approx 25% to the overall economy. Shutting down air traffic would effect millions & would immediately end the shutdown.
7
Most people in Western countries don't have to deal with a sudden $30K of medical expenses due to Universal Health care.
Donald Trump promised universal health coverage years ago. (you can easily find the video on YouTube).
Where is the universal health coverage we were promised?
10
@Peter Piper
Those government workers have some of the best medical insurance in the country.
3
If elected officials wish to play this game then ALL pay should be stopped starting at the top with those same officials.
10
So let me get this straight. Taxpayers are being asked for fork over 5.7 billion for a wall that Mexico is paying for?
14
@Peter Piper ,,,We weren't asked...we are being coerced into it! If Mexico had paid as Promised Trump would be a Hero! We as individuals were asked who we wanted as President in 2016. Unfortunately the Electoral College negated the opinion of the majority of us. Now the country is being pressured to do the Trump supporters bidding ! Most of us have empathy.. not for Trump and the Wall...but for the Gov't Employees going without pay! These employees.. like the majority of us.. are stuck in the middle of this! Democracy works only when the Voters use...GOOD.. common sense in sufficient numbers ! Oh if we could just go back in time and vote again. If the Primaries were so brutal...couldn't we see this chaos could become our future !!
7
Someone set up a Go-Fund-Me that took in millions for this stupid wall. Cant someone figure out the same for folks affected by this shut down?
Hang tough people. TSA, total work stoppage. No TSA, no flights. Fight, resist.
12
"I have been a federal employee for almost 39 years. Not knowing if I can pay my rent or other household bills is frightening! I want the wall. I support it totally … But not at my expense!"
As a 39 year Federal employee you are covered under the old good retirement plan (CSRS) Civil Service Retirement System. With 39 years in you are eligible for a pension equivalent to roughly 78 percent of your salary (68 percent with a survivor annuity). You are in pretty good shape even if you never saved a dime in your working life.
11
@Jack. Not true. CSRS was replaced by FERS many years ago; the latter a weak replacement for the former
@Jack. Not true. CSRS was replaced by FERS many years ago; the latter a weak replacement for the former. Oops my bad- overlooked that "39 year service" thing. Apologies.
I myself am a furloughed federal employee, and I do not disagree that this shutdown is ridiculous. But I am a little disappointed that the NYT is repeating (or, in this case, reprinting) some of the same imprecise claims about the effects of the shutdown.
Almost nobody is already experiencing a loss of pay, since the first paycheck affected by the shutdown is the one that would typically be deposited later this week. This is not to diminish the imminent difficulty that people may be *anticipating*, but someone whose bank account was already zero earlier this week would still have zero dollars right now even without a shutdown.
Also, the reference to losing health insurance is directly contrary to what OPM has told us, which is that health insurance benefits continue even during a shutdown. If the NYT has information to the contrary, please tell us right away! If not, it is a bit irresponsible to spread confusion by printing one person's otherwise unfounded prediction that health insurance will disappear.
Also, federal employees who are running the risk of defaulting on payments soon should know that many federal credit unions are offering loans to furloughed workers at very low rates -- some with zero interest for a couple months. Since we will likely get backpay eventually, that should be a helpful bridge for those without savings.
I am not trying to minimize the terrible consequences of the shutdown, but there's no benefit to overstating them and scaring people, either.
8
@Another furloughed worker A TSA agent told me yesterday she may not be able to pay her mortgage because of the shutdown.
7
@Barb
And I imagine she has the latest edition of a smart phone, a large TV/entertainment system in her house, and is paying on a huge house that she does not really need, and has not ever saved a penny in her life. Irresponsible behavior. No sympathy here.
1
@esp
Why does this discussion so often turn into "they're in trouble because they did something wrong"?
There are a number caring for family members. There are a number who live in expensive areas of the country (what - you didn't think Federal employees lived in NYC?). There are a number who were burnt in the Great Recession (not to mention the 2001 downturn), and never 100% recovered.
And - they had jobs. They HAVE jobs. You don't know them or their habits; you're guessing at best. Why have so many decided *they* must've done something wrong?
Why not look at the SOURCE of the problem, instead of the people being affected by it?
2
I was interested in Trumps approval ratings over the past two years. What I found was that Trump was least liked when he took money away from the majority of the country and gave it to a few rich folks (Dec. 2017, 58% disapproval), and his approval ratings are dropping as he takes money from just a few million families (Jan 2019, 54% disapproval).
This makes me think that we could be a bit more compassionate for our neighbors. Certainly the shutdown is doing much greater harm to a few million citizens in the short term . . . what it does in the long term will be perhaps more important, but harder to measure.
5
All federal employees need to walk out, TSA and air traffic controllers , walk out.. no one works until you get paid . Watch how fast this would be resolved
9
There is one person in this article that sums up how we got into this mess- she said "I want the Wall, but not at my expense" Well it was always going to be at someone's expense- time for you to share the burden for what you want when so many of us find a it giant waste of time and resources.
37
TSA employees who are required to work without pay should ask every passenger they have to screen for a nominal donation. $5 or $10 per person, $15 per bag.
1
Per a story this afternoon on NPR, we never had shutdowns until President Carter’s found and interpreted a law from the 1800’s that prohibited government departments from paying their workers if no new budget was in effect. It was apparently ignored for ages until 1980.
If Congress would repeal that, this wouldn’t happen, it seems. Neither party, in any event has done ANYTHING to formally prevent these absurd shutdowns since 1980. Utterly inexcusable.
9
I wonder whether there could be a class action lawsuit on these people's behalf against Equifax, TRW, D&B, and other credit reporting agencies to block them from lowering a person's credit score due to payments missed while they can document they were losing income due to the government shutdown. If people who were paying their bills regularly become unable to do so due to something so completely beyond their control, credit agencies should not be legally allowed to penalize them for it, especially if they catch up on all delinquent payments when they finally receive their deferred pay.
8
If I could have given the Democrats' response to Trump, I would have said, "This isn't reality TV anymore, this is reality, and real people are suffering the real consequences of Trump's allegiance to his own ego instead of to the American people. This is YOUR money being wasted on a monument to himself that will not stop illegal opioids (most of which come in through legal points of entry or the US mail) and will not stop asylum seekers (who present themselves at the border). It's an incredibly inefficient and wasteful method of decreasing illegal migration, which could be better handled with more person power, electronic surveillance and drones. It will be obsolete before it's built and will cost far more than 5 billion dollars. Republicans: Stop holding our government hostage to Trump's ego and do your jobs as a co-equal branch of government. End the shutdown, and work with Dems on smart, cost-effective border security and comprehensive immigration reform."
18
Sounds like these Federal employees don’t get health insurance as there are several references to burdensome medical bills...Yikes
2
@Training Camp Health insurance doesn't necessarily cover everything, but Federal employees do definitely have the option to have health insurance. https://www.opm.gov/healthcare-insurance/healthcare
The personal tragedy inflicted on our federal workers, the chaos that will start tomorrow with unpaid mortgage, rents, car payments, medical payments, etc, was all so unnecessary. I oppose Trump, but I disagree with the comments here that suppose that he alone will be blamed. Pelosi and Schumer will be blamed too. Our civil servants were held in ransom, used for blackmail, and punished for political grandstanding. At least Pelosi and Schumer should have introduced a bill to pay 'em during the shut down. Meanwhile, Congress gets paid and Don gets his Big Mac served from a silver platter in bed again tonight.
5
@Michael
Before the shutdown, a bill was passed through the House and Senate, set for Trump to sign. Fox Entertainment interfered via Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh, telling him he would appear weak if he gave in to House and Senate, so he didn't sign. How does it feel to have Fox Entertainment participating in the running of our country? Now, Mitch McConnell is refusing to put any bills through the Senate. I don't believe Democrats will take the brunt of the blame.
13
Federal worker on furlough. My family will be fine, but I know that I’m really lucky compared with most of my fellow government workers who are subjected to the shutdown.
Trust Donald Trump to stiff workers! But at the moment, blame lies with Senate Republicans, and Mitch McConnell in particular, for providing Trump cover he does not deserve.
The House has passed the CR, Mitch. It’s on your desk now. You own this until you pass your own bill, or pass the House’s CR and see whether Trump really wants to own the shutdown.
Mitch McConnell, folks! How feckless can you get? A man willing to bow to a pathetic excuse for a man. No honor, no soul.
32
Shameful that our president ignores his duty to operate our government. Congress has passed bills to fund operations and yet the president is blackmailing the country, refusing to do his job and provide essential services to us, so that he can have something that is not essential to the everyday operations of the government. It’s irresponsible and dereliction of duty.
12
I hope Mr Grudge realizes that the Democrats have passed legislation to get him back to work which the GOP Senate and Trump have ignored.
The Shutdown is about a disagreement over the wall not Aviation! There is no excuse why Mr Grudge should be going without pay!
Blame Trump 100%!
11
For those employees that voted for Trump, support his need for a vanity wall, and have no other means of income to support yourself and your family, you got what you paid for.
40
@Dan as that charming young woman said in the Times last week "he's not hurting the people he was supposed to hurt!" hmmmm......
caveat emptor indeed!
1
Apparently no one taught these people to have six months of expenses saved for an emergency.
10
That's just not always realistic.
9
@Jim Miller If you make $30 k per year, it is hard to save enough to have six months for an emergency. I was out of college 15 years before I got to that point.
13
@Jim Miller
Talk about hitting someone when they are down! I'm such a worrier that even when I was in college living on $500 a month (1983) I always had a few months saved. That said, have you read any of these stories? Some who just moved and bought a home. If there was one time in my life I was broke, that was it. Some who have disabled children, just lost a spouse and a second income, and some who themselves have serious medical problems/bills. Are you aware of how quickly a medical situation can wipe out months of savings? My key assistant has a serious medical condition and goes every 6 months to a university team who monitor her. Her PPO insurance has covered this every 6 months for 4 years. Last Friday she was told at 5pm that her upcoming all day affair the next Monday at the University medical center would not be covered due to a change in policy terms. Her health situation had turned and she needed the visit, which she had to book 3 months in advance. So she said she would pay out of pocket. $29,700 for the clinic, the labs, and the MD's. That was her 6 months of savings GONE IN A FLASH. Have a heart.
20
The 800,000 unpaid workers are powerless right now. But come 2020, their voices will be heard. Shame on any of them who vote for Trump, who is using them as political pawns and cares nothing about the hardships they are enduring.
33
@nzierler
Overall they will show the same lack of care for themselves and their country and vote for Trump again.
5
What a shame your President doesn’t care one wit about you.
30
The bereaved parent continued:
I appreciate "President" Trump's earnest commitment to building a cement wall across the entire southern border.
He should keep the government closed until he gets a promise to fund it.
It is important that the 800,000 federal workers not being paid feel some of the pain my family feels by the loss of our daughter to an illegal immigrant.
And this pain will spread beyond those households to the landlords and grocery stores and restaurants and other businesses that depend on those Federal workers money.
This will truly bring our daughter back to life.
Thank you Donnie.
2
@MauiYankee. My sincere and heartfelt sympathies to you and your family for an unimaginable loss. I am so sorry.
Please do not wish pain and suffering on others. Why would you wish another person feel pain? It will not relieve yours.
I am not criticizing you MauiYankee. I just feel so sorry for your pain and suffering.
4
Most landlords are not going to tolerate people not paying their rent---Trump most certainly would not tolerate it.
38
Have these people ever cared about private sector workers? Most federal employees vote Democratic and have supported candidates who support more immigration, including H-1Bs, driving down private sector wages. Did they care when the H-1Bs replaced US citizens and residents at Disney? Or did they continue to vote for more immigration, legal and illegal? And they expect us to care about them?
7
This is all speculation in your part. There's no way you can know the answers to these questions. When you say these things, you're as bad as the politicians that put us in this mess.
10
Put the blame where it belongs , the corporations who hire them and the Republicans who pander to them . As far as federal workers voting Democrat, that’s just the Liar’s talking point to his base.
7
The problem is a corporation like Disney, that didn’t hire citizens. Greed over ethics; that’s America today.
1
My husband is a federal employee. I'm almost 8 months pregnant and going on maternity leave next month. If we don't have his paycheck, I don't know how we're going to pay for our child since we won't even have enough income while I'm on leave to cover my student loans, let alone our rent and other bills.
Honestly I think this shutdown is ridiculous, especially if he declares the national emergency anyway. Why can't Congress just pass the budget with 2/3rds majority? They have the votes, what are they so scared of?
20
@amyinwa
I think you are mistaken with your "2/3rds majority" idea...
1
@Chris Actually, @amyinwa is correct. A two-thirds majority vote in both the House and the Senate would override a presidential veto. See Article I, Section 7, clause 2 of the U.S. Constitution.
2
@Chris: the 2/3rds majority means after the bill is passed & trump refuses to sign, 2/3rds of each chamber votes for it, that overrides the veto.
NYTimes it would help if you and other media outlets could identify organizations that we, the public, could contribute to and assist those government employees not being paid during the shutdown.
14
@cherrylog754
The Federal Employee Education and Assistance Fund makes loans to employees in need and takes donations. Here is a link to their website. https://feea.org
3
Who knew Ann Coulter had so much influence on people’s lives?
25
Whether you believe a total wall is necessary, or that extending and/or improving the wall is needed, or that its the lowest on the priority of improvements needed: there is no excuse for shutting down the government, its workers, contractors, businesses that depend on it, the essential services provided.
There is no connection between the immigration/border issues and needed government operations. Holding the nation hostage to fulfill his pet project with his base, is a cowardly act that exposes Trump's incompetence, inability to negotiate in good faith, and his complete disdain for the American people.
27
@dsbarclay: Hand each of his base a shovel & a 50 lb sack of cement, aggregate, &/or 100 gallons of water. Have them march from their home states, & stay as long as it takes to build it. Oh, bring food, tents, & winter clothing & micro bikinis for summer. No pay, no help, no medical care & no security, except in summer, when security will come with cameras.
Is Congress working for free right now? C’mon Mitch, how about a little skin in the game?
16
Nice work, seeking the tiny handful of affected government employees who fit the thinnest of anti-President Trump narratives.
"I want the wall. I support it totally … But not at my expense!"
These people are absolutely exhausting.
43
@CincyBroad Well, not really. Mexico is supposed to be paying for this wall. If they are not paying, then there is no wall. Simple as that.
5
@Peter Piper
Mexico never agreed to pay for the wall; if anything, they stated quite the contrary.
3
@CincyBroad Too many people on the right are selfish, self-centered, and small-minded. They're perfectly okay with bad things like the wall happening at other people's expense, but Heaven forbid they be harmed!
3
This shutdown is in actuality nothing more than hostage taking. If you reward the kidnapper, he’ll have every incentive to pull this stunt again and again.
50
This is just a despicable deplorable disgusting and disgraceful act by Trump and Republican senators!
Shame upon America by this border wall
Where’s Mexico’s check that Trump said they give? Trump has egg and a lot more on his face.
5
Time to wake up, America. All Federal employees need to walk out of their jobs and really shut the government down. The worker has lost every sort of voice they ever had since the unions have been effectively busted up by this miserable political party. This is your livelihood that they are messing with. How long will you remain impotent? Show these people who really runs the country. Air traffic controllers have the real power, here. If air travel stops, the CEO’s of every major airline will make the GOP’s life a living hell which will force them to reopen.
30
The controllers tried that under Reagan. He fired them.
2
@JJ How did we get by with no air traffic control?
2
@Peter Piper It’s a long time ago, but I believe he brought in new ones andmany effectively lost their jobs. Goggle it.
3
President Trump was born with a silver spoon in his mouth in a house with servants. My guess is that he’s never pushed a vacuum or even paid an electric bill. He doesn’t care about these folks, he cares about one person. If this article was written to move his conscience, I’m not sure he has a soul. We’re in a sad state.
35
So the US has a trillion dollar budget. Trump wants .05% to build something that everyone on the border agrees is needed, yet the Dems (up in NY and northern CA) want to shut down the gov which will surpass 5 billion in a few days. Dumb. Get rid of our government.
1
@Pilot
"everyone on the border agrees is needed" A bit of an over-generalization, perhaps?
Ever since that dreadful day when Trump went down that escalator made his wall announcement, I've seen and read plenty of interviews (in both US and non-US media) with americans who live along the border who said the opposite, that it was a stupid idea and that it would not work.
At one point 110 tunnels were found along the border (don't know how many there are now), drugs are catapulted over existing fences, and other rather ingenious techniques have been developed to sneak people and drugs in (not many opioids though--those mainly arrive at ports of entry and come from China).
Congress and the Senate seem more than willing to increase border security, but by using funds differently (more equipment and personnel, new tech, and some fences).
If the goal was really border security, this so-called president would listen to this other point of view and learn to compromise. He is, of course, completely incapable of both, and he could not care less about border security. He just wants a win that will appeal to his base so they will keep adoring him. As usual, it's all about him.
4
The majority of the country disagrees with you. That’s what the problem is. If the President wants to convince people, he is going to have to convince them, not insult and take hostages.
5
@Pilot Actually Trump said that he is responsible for the shutdown. He said it very clearly in a recent meeting.
7
Let’t shut down the part of the federal government that’s destroying the nation—The White House and the Trump regime, the whole enchilada. Without pay, it goes without saying.
17
We have an amoral person at the helms. He could care less about the Federal workers and their families. He is a man not willing to lose face and painted himself in the corner.
This is not the first time he stife someone of their pay. I rather see him go golfing, than continue to destroy our country.
13
@RC I don't care where he goes, as along as it is out of the White House!
1
As a Canadian this wall talk just sounds stupid, dumb and oh my goodness. I guess the wall worked in Berlin...until it fell due to progressive ideas. I just shake my head... I finished reading Michelle Obama's book Belonging and it was very uplifting. Although much of the eight years this family invested seems wasted at this time. Good luck with your country, America. From an outsider, it seems like you have some more dire priorities to address then some foolish wall.
38
@Dreena
But then that wall was meant to keep people IN, against their will, not keep foreigners out. That is a distinction, whether or not one approves of more border fencing.
2
@DreenaBerlin wall was also a propaganda tool, ised to protect the workers republic from the fanatic capatalist masses. In reality it was to stop the flow into west Berlin of people like my own family. It did reduce overall numbers but people still climbed, ran, tunneled to get out.
1
@George S: All through history walls have failed. The Great Wall of China, Hadrian’s Wall between Brittania & the PIcts (Early Scots). Only one didn’t. In India. But we can’t duplicate it as we can’t run a wall all the way around the country (including beaches, estuaries, mountains, International Airports) with forts every 1/2 mile with 200+ soldiers in each. It also took a blood sacrifice to get it to stand.
I'm curious if any of these people have contacted their representatives if they are Republicans or have tried to contact the White House to tell THEM - not newspaper readers - how tough it is for them when the paycheck stops.
10
My senators are both hard core Republicans. They won't bat an eye while they explain to me why I'm wrong and should be grateful for the mess they've made.
3
Don't worry Federal workers on furlough...
Trump is going to "bail you out" like he just did to the Great Farmers whom he Loves.
Even though they are now selling thier soybeans to China, so effectively, they are getting paid TWICE for thier beans.
But who cares? Like the Idiotic wall, taxpayers, not Trump,will happily foot the bill!
So even though YOU will get your pay eventually, Trump said he thinks it's only fair for Our Great Federal Employees to get bailed out.
So don't worry, be happy!!! And don't forget to pull that lever for a Republican next election!!! They wuv you!!!!
4
deliberate cruelty by this POTUS ?
yeah that sounds like him ...
17
Putin’s puppets are trying to break the back of America.
Will we resist or roll over.
8
So you thought Trump was only heartless toward immigrants and their children and non-Caucasians generally.
11
This whole wall scheme sounds like a pig in a poke to me. Who came up with the 5 billion dollar figure anyway? What exactly is it going to be? Who is going to build it? Has there been a bidding process? I would feel better about allocating funds for something like that if it were a well-thought-out plan with data to justify and support it. By data I do not mean anecdotes. Without that, I think the money should be spent to improve access to health care, education and infrastructure that the bottom 90% of us need. I am afraid that as it now stands, half of the money would end up in some billionaire’s pocket, and we would be forever finding some wall for nothing.
21
The partial Govt shutdown will cost billions, maybe tens of billions (forbes) It cost more to shutter the Govt than to keep it open. Standard and Poors estimated $6bb per week for full showdown and partial is about 25% or $1.5bb per week.
What a waste of our money and associated misry Trump is causing to placate his base, just his base. A president that from the beginning wrote off more than half the country's citizens concerns, hopes and dreams.
21
I just feel like the president does not care, even though he claims to speak for everyone (and imagine, they are unified in their desire to do without work and/or a paycheck for 3+ weeks). Imagine, every one of the 800,000 federal employees is unanimous in their opinion! Has President Trump spoken to each and every one to know if that is exactly the case? He shrugs off the concern about unpaid bills (yeah, the mortgage companies and credit card companies will understand, since it is all for a good cause). Well, I say money talks, nobody walks and it is always all about the money. Did the President before he was president forgive late rent payments or past due debts for the same reason? Something tells me the answer is a resounding "NO"! You either have to be real naive or gullible to buy into this whole wall = government starts up equation or no wall = shutdown.
16
@Andy Panda The president does NOT care Andy! Name one time when he has been compassionate and made a sacrifice for our country at his expense.
4
The President, Sean Hannity, and his party including Ann Coulture, Rush Limbaugh, Steve Miller, Mitch McConnell, and Donald Trump reply "We don't care. Matter of fact we enjoy knowing government workers are suffering their deserved punishment. Besides look how much it's saving!"
(No, they don't know it's not.)
2
Multiple articles and republican law makers call the 800,000 government workers who are caught in Trump shutdown web, none essential workers. I call them people who make this country run, and without them, we will be in a bigger mess than we are now. I think, Mr. Trump and republican law makers like Mitch McConnell. Lindsey Graham, and the whole lot of them are none essential government employees. Regardless of what is happening to all the workers who are not getting paid, Mr. Trump and others WE pay to work for us, are not doing anything and should not be paid and enjoy all the amenities we pay for. Stop the shutdown now!
8
"I have been a federal employee for almost 39 years. Not knowing if I can pay my rent or other household bills is frightening! I want the wall. I support it totally … But not at my expense!"
She realizes that her taxes will be paying for the wall, right? It was always going to be at her expense -- literally.
40
@Diana Agreed! I don't want it at MY expense.
1
@Diana - what I wonder is, would it be ok if it were not at her expense, but still at other people's expense? She seems to be saying, "I support this idea, but would rather some other person suffer for it, not me."
And that is the way our politics work. Pander to you base, and ignore the suffering of the people you figure mostly don't impact your re-election.
4
I notice that the wall supporters are all people who won't run out of money in the next month or so.
10
I'm disgusted by Trump's victimization of the people who make our federal government work. It doesn't matter that I'm against building his border boondoggle. I'd still be just as disgusted if I was for a wall.
I could a more insidious plan in all of this: The Republicans (mis)running government now would like to shrink it. What better to way to do so, and blame Democrats for it?
I remember how I felt the one time I didn't receive a paycheck on time, as a private sector employee. And I wasn't bearing the enormous burdens of some employees in this story. At least they will (eventually) be paid. Thus, this is wasteful; they get paid, even though their work doesn't get done. Too bad about contractors, who won't have their pay made up.
Some suggestions to put pressure on those who need it:
Now and from now on, when Congress and the President fail to fulfill their Constitutional obligation to pass spending bills on time, stop their paychecks. With no paycheck deductions, let them pay full freight COBRA coverage for their health care. Prohibit the President and Congressmembers from traveling abroad, from engaging in campaign activities, and from meeting lobbyists. Better yet, require them to remain in Washington, work daily, and clock in and out, with their timecards a matter of public record. After 30 days, extend that to their staffs. And no, they don't get their back pay restored; it's gone for good. When others are losing homes and medical care, it's the least they can do.
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Would only truly work if you could freeze their assets. That would be justice.
1
Um - "We have family members who will help. We can last about a year. We want this wall and are willing to fight for it, sacrifice for it.
— Sandra M., Department of Defense employee, Tacoma, Wash. Has a year’s worth of savings. "
Somebody needs to tell Sandra M. that the DoD is not shut down - it's funded thru 2019. Maybe this is a kind way of telling her that her rating was at all '1's'? Not satisfactory?
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No wonder Sandra is willing to "sacrifice" for the wall... she's willing to sacrifice the rest of us, while she gets paid!
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@GWPDA, Precisely. All DoD employees and contractors are working regular hours and being paid normally. I wonder if Sandra M. is a real person.
Also, isn't the NYT supposed to know this?
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Apart from Australia in 1975, no other western nation apart from the US (on multiple occasions) has ever had a government shutdown. The American system of government is in desperate need of a significant overhaul given the current system is routinely unable to perform even the most basic of tasks.
Perhaps taking a step back from looking at the effects and/or the direct causes of the shutdown and instead asking if a government shutdown should even be possible would in the long run be most in the national interest. We unfortunately seem to be stuck in a rut of navel gazing and train-wreck spectating at the moment, which is of little benefit to the present and/or future generations.
9
Has anyone heard Trump express a single word of concern for federal employees furloughed or working without pay?
The only things I've heard him say are: federal workers support the government shutdown, they support his wall, "Chuck and Nancy" and Democrats don't want to defend America, Republicans are united in supporting the shutdown and he will declare a national emergency and sidestep Congress to build his wall.
As The Times' story reveals, federal employees are suffering emotional as well as financial hardships. But the president hasn't mentioned their crises. Nor have Republicans in Congress spoken out about their constituents affected by the shutdown. Sure Collins said she doesn't approve of shutting down the government but that's hardly standing up for affected federal workers, their families and others caused hardships by lack of government services.
A wall is an expensive obstacle which is more for Trump's ego than an effective deterrent. Yet he plans to make Americans suffer to get his way and Republicans only want to blame Democrats rather than pressure Trump to end the shutdown.
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@JABarry Trump has said that it is only Democratic party members who are being hurt by the shutdown. If they weren't Democratic party members before, they might be now.
2
Trump and Mitch McConnell own this federal government shutdown and those directly and indirectly affected should make the POTUS and his political party know their feelings and what they will do in the 2020 election.
5
I would like to see some articles in the Times about the legality of forcing civilian employees to work without pay. There is a pending suit by one of the unions - what do legal experts say about it? How can that be countenanced? Couldn’t a federal court declare that the employees cannot be forced to work without pay nor disciplined for doing so?
That would certainly cause REAL shutdowns - no air traffic, for one would cripple the nation. Congress, even hesitant Republicans would have to do something then, including overriding the predictable veto. This is all so inexcusable.
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Even in dark blue Chicago today, the rally to support Federal Workers only drew 75 people. I am not seeing a groundswell of support to quickly end the shutdown. I personally support the wall and using the leverage of a shutdown to obtain the funding of such.
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@William, shame on you to approve of taking people hostage. They are your "leverage" and it is not right.
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I have an opinion about the wall, but what that opinion is irrelevant for the current discussion.
What is relevant is that Trump is abusing the veto power over legislation that is given to him by our Constitution. That power was given to the president by the framers out of the assumption that presidents will be reasonable, mostly rational people who use their powers in reasonable ways to serve the interests of the country as they understand them. Trump however has chosen to take the entire federal government and the livelihoods of 800,000 employees hostage to his demands. He is a person who is congenitally incapable of compromise and sees everything in terms of “winning” and “losing”. To him, this is all about winning” another political fight, and he is blind to all other consequences. His approach to the shutdown is not motivated by a rational cost-benefit analysis of the sort that even the least competent of our former presidents would use to evaluate the current impasse.
The president of the United States is often described as “the most powerful person in the world”. I find it interesting that much of this power is of a negative sort - there is much that presidents cannot order done, but their power (e.g., to veto) makes it easy for them to cause pain to a lot of people. Trump is taking this to an extreme, using his powers in the most negative and hurtful way possible to assert his dominance. Surely that is not the presidency envisioned by the founding fathers.
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I’m saddened by the difficulties these families face, but I’m also angered by the refusal of the media, including the NYT, to point out the obvious:
Did anyone expect the house GOP to fund the ACA after campaigning against it in in 2010?
In what possible way could the Dems be expected to pay for individual 1’s latest fabricated crisis?
4
VP Pence and others just agreed to forgo a pay increase during the shut down. Well isn't that swell.
Why is it that VP Pence and members of the cabinet receive any pay at all during the shutdown?
9
This may be Trump's fault. But the fact he can do it is the fault of all politicians in the House and Senate never voting a law that will assure government employees get paid. What is so difficult about that? Why is their pay linked to 'funding' that can be blocked?
3
A tsa agent told me today she was concerned she/they could not pay their mortgage payment this month. (And yes lines were slower than usual).
3
The power of unionization is beautiful.
If the shutdown was attempted in a country that believed in unionization, like India, the worker would come first, not a wall.
My family in India is bewildered how 800,000 workers have no voice, no power and are as fragile as autumn leaves.
7
Perhaps there's a need for a new financial product: shutdown insurance. It would be deducted from paychecks of government workers and put in a fund just like disability and unemployment. If there's a shutdown, they still get their regular pay for the duration of the shutdown.
1
Curious regarding Sandra M.'s response. As a fellow DoD employee, thankfully we are not affected by the shutdown. I wonder if her position would be the same if her pay stopped? Mine certainly would.
14
Why aren't those of you who support the wall blaming Trump and the Republicans for not doing anything about it in the first 2 years of his term when they had all the power? It is a bit much to hear the complaints now.
9
in the Washington area, there is an added complication. the continually escalating real estate market, combined with commuting expenses, stress, and time lost, places an unrealistic financial burden even without a shutdown - not only on families who must sustain two incomes to meet financial obligations such as mortgages, but especially on those with low incomes who are may be evicted for not paying rent on time. Surely Trump, with his experience in real estate, could understand that problem.
2
Please report also on the plight of contractors. We rarely hear about them. I'm a contractor working for a federal agency and I am lucky to be able to telework--but nor for long. What about all those others who can't work and will never see a paycheck? Aren't their circumstances even more dire? How many tens of thousands of contractors are there in our country?
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I'm a Fed, too. I can go 12-18 months, longer if I move to a less expensive apt. I'm a frugal, single, childfree renter with a cat. Got together with some co-workers this afternoon. Most are doing OK; some have spouses with non-federal jobs, others have savings. The retirees are receiving their checks. But the uncertainty is stressful. Mostly we just want to get back to work. I mentioned that I often think of doing this thing or that thing (day trip, museum, etc), then think, But wait- that takes money. It's not a lot, but adds up. So I stay home watching the cat salivate over the squirrels, doing my tidying up combo of KonMari/Swedish death cleaning, knitting, reading, library DVDs.
One of my employees retired Dec. 31. Her paperwork won't go through till this is over and in the meantime, no pension (she's OK, tho).
Our health insurance is in force, despite the lapse in payment of the govt. portion; the employee portion will be deducted from our paycheck once we start up. I don't know if that will change if this goes on for a long time.
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It sounds to me this is exactly what this administration wants: force employees to suit and then hire no replacements. That is one way to shrink the government. Combined with leadership committed to stopping regulation this seems so transparently the point of this.
5
Not all veterans are as lucky as the one who has over a year of savings, and plenty of people will now be having to decide between paying their mortgage or being able to feed the family. Thanks, Don.
5
I have not heard about federal workers' benefits. Presumably if they are receiving paychecks with a zero amount, so also are their health insurance providers. Are these people in jeopardy of losing their insurance due to missed employer contributions?
3
@Don Peters No. We're covered. See above.
I still don’t understand how it is legal to make people work for no pay. Do federal employees have any basis to sue the government over this?
7
400,000 government employees are required to report for work even though there is no guarantee of when or if they'll be paid.
Isn't being forced to work for no pay the modern equivalent of indentured servitude?
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Federal employees (at least in USDA) can't even do our taxes while we're off because the National Finance Center staff is furloughed and we won't get W2s. I wonder how the IRS will handle that, or not.
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@patricia
Wait until regular Americans don't get their refunds because 90% of the IRS is furloughed!
1
Shout-out to the TSA workers at the Lexington airport yesterday morning who still did their jobs conscientiously and thoroughly.
I thought about asking my friend who was seeing me off to buy them a coffee or something but ... apparently that's against the rules. In normal times I can see why. However, these aren't normal times so maybe Trump can set up a gofundme page for all the government workers who are essential to our nation's health and security. Or maybe even end the shutdown.
3
Sandra M, Department of Defense employee, who has over a year's saving and is willing "to fight for it, sacrifice for it (the wall)," is not feeling any of the pain of the shut down. Department of Defense is not shut down. Department of Defense employees are at work and getting paid. My heart goes out to Nick L, who puts his life on the line as a firefighter.
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It seems odd to me that we haven't heard much about banks, credit unions and the like stepping in to float loans, with favorable terms, to these folks. If that isn't happening, it should, given that they're ordinary people caught up in a mess not of their making. And it would seem to make good business sense, particularly if credit scores are up to snuff and they can demonstrate they're employed--plus, when the madness ends, it's pretty much a given that they'll receive retroactive pay, which has always happened before. Help out folks caught in this sort of situation and they'll be the first to call you when shopping for a mortgage, car loan, etc. in the future.
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@August West
Northwest Federal Credit Union is offering 3 month 0.00 percent interest loans if you have direct deposit with them. After 3 months the interest rate is 7%
2
@August West I have seen announcements in my local paper and where my parents live in another state, of credit unions offering loans of up to $6,000. No credit check involved and no interest.
2
@August West The people without a rainy day fund are generally people who do not manage their money well and are high risks for the banks. It does not matter if you are a government employee is you have a low credit score. Banks will not lend to you because they will not get repaid.
1
Sounds like the FAA employees (air traffic controllers etc) could end this quickly by not doing unpaid work.
It’s not fair for them to have to do so, and it would have an effect. Would they face retribution for not doing unpaid work?
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@Rowan - Would they suffer retribution? Very likely. Remember that, back in 1981, more than 12,000 members of the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization
walked off the job. Ronald Reagan warned they had better
return to work within 48 hours. They didn't, and all were
fired. It has taken decades to recover from that loss of
highly skilled manpower.
8
@Rowan
I believe that they could get fired as Reagan did it to the FAA employees back when they wanted to unionize and then he went ahead and deregulated the industry.
I may have a small part of that incorrect but I believe that he did that.
5
@Rowan Most likely yes, as it could be considered as a "strike" (particularly if there was any evidence of coordination, communication, or collaboration among employees not showing up) or being AWOL (3 days of not showing up, and it could be considered abandonment). Depends on how "hard core" the Administration wanted to be, and if it were looking to make examples of some folks (as a warning to the rest).
4
My federal employee friend told me of her logistical nightmare caused by not getting paid on January 11. Since her pay will not be direct deposited in her checking account, she had to terminate all of the automatic electronic transfers she uses to pay her monthly mortgage, utilities, cable, and credit card bills. She had to do this to avoid overdrawing her accounts. All of this is in addition to not being able to meet her monthly expenses. Thank you Mr. Trump!!!
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@appalled
Didn't Trump suggest dog walking, house painting, cleaning toilets and carpentry work to tide these people over? They should take Trump, Pence and McConnell and build a 50-foot high permanent wall around them.
8
I was a government employee during the first shut down in 95. I was also deemed essential. At least this time everyone is talking about the fact that empolyees are going without paychecks. Back then it was all hey look how well we are doing even with the government shut down! my family was surprised I was working and the companies who called me for help were surprised someone picked up the phone. These games the goverment plays are immoral. they should go without pay until this is resolved. They will continue to play these games unitl they are held accountable for it. People need to demand better....politicians now have lost all credibility.
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@christina kish
And who will hold them accountable? Certainly not the GOP. If nothing else, I think we finally have it drilled into our heads that elections count.
6
@Wally Wolf I certainly hope so!
The Shut Down may well have harmful effects on these people for decades to come. Some may see their credit ratings fall and this alone could damage them for the rest of their lives.
71
I would like to know if mortgage lenders and property owners will modify their requirements for government workers in the future, knowing these applicants are at a high risk of pay interruptions moving forward. Will they require higher down paments, larger security deposits or charge higher interest rates?
53
My husband is a federal employee. We can financially pull through this shutdown, but cannot afford any more. My parent, who lives 3,000 miles away, was recently put in hospice care. I will have to use our emergency money to go see her, funds that we are dipping into just to pay the bills. We've already dealt with a major home repair and are bracing ourselves for Murphy's Law. We know many federal workers who are far worse off, including our friend who is severely disabled. We oppose the "wall," but mainly oppose shutting down the government on principle. Since 2013, the GOP has been trying to normalize closing the government as a "negotiating" tactic. If we reward this machination, someone like Trump will use shutdowns as a matter of routine.
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