OK, we understand, Trump uses Gould language and it’s shows he’s bad. A Democrat uses fouls language and it shows she’s in touch with common folk. Typical NYT article. Got it.
20
So much more made of this than it deserves. Backlash against a thoughtless comment by an exuberant rookie does not rise to the level of systemic oppression of women, hypocritical prudery, or demonization of Muslims. Everybody else has gotten over it, hopefully with lessons learned.
8
Crude, obnoxious speech is still protected speech, no matter that our kids were listening.
9
"Profanity is the effort of a weak mind, trying to express itself forcibly."
20
Hey, get over it! There are hundreds of issues facing congress that are far more significant that Tlaib's heartfelt description of our President. Someone, anyone, has to start calling it like it is. It would have been unbecoming for Speaker Pelosi, with her many strengths and obligations to have uttered this colorful description of Donald Trump, although I bet she wish she could. This is not anything close to maligning the office of the President; Trump's incessant lying has done that; now we are addressing only the character of the person who brought you this disgrace.
9
Its less a matter of what Rep. Tlaib said then the fact that it not only is a needless, preventable distraction that adds nothing meaningful to the discussion about Trump's fitness for office, but also it gives opponents ammunition to use against her and the House Democrats in performing much-needed oversight of this Administration.
10
This is being condemned by the same Republicans who praise the Charlottesville Nazis, insisting on the sanctity of their free speech rights.
No adult pays attention to Republicans any more because they are all patently insane.
16
as Krugman points out, Republicans always play Calvin ball. They do whatever they want, violating every possible standard of law, morality, prudence, and decency, and then criticize the Democrats when they do anything remotely resembling the same thing. That’s all that’s going on here. I don’t think the fact that the speaker is a woman has anything that much to do with it.
7
The issue is not the use of obscenity. It's the naive impulsive proclamation for impeachment. First rule of seasoned, knowledgeable and mature politicians or lawyers- don't play your hand till you have all the necessary pieces in place. Many longing for impeachment know that it requires a thoughtful and strategic game plan. This was just howling in the wind. Grow up--we expected more of the newcomers.
11
First, Alexandra Ocasio Cortez thinks she is permitted to DANCE in this country and now, Rashida Tlaib uses an unauthorized word!
Republicans, aka the American Taliban, are understandably hysterical.
16
I loved George Carlin, but his profanity-laced humor was hard to listen to. I really miss the days of grown ups and professionals in WDC, instead of potty-mouthed children and mobsters (you too, Mitch). Ms Tlaib didn't do herself, her causes, or the left any favors. Michele Obama knew the wisdom of holding herself above the fray. Tlaib is mud wrestling with pigs.
9
The NYT in a nutshell. Apologetic for everything wrong
14
I agree completely with her characterization of Trump. I've said as much myself. I don't mind at all that she said it. I was entertained by it.
That being said, however, we all know that if a Republican Congressman had been filmed saying the same about HRC or Elizabeth Warren, we'd be expressing self-righteous outrage.
To pretend otherwise is silly.
9
@Jojojo Actually, the Republicans so often claimed that Hillary murdered people and that Hillary ran a child sex trafficking ring out of a pizza joint, drank blood, etc etc etc that nobody was outraged. It was too predictable and boring after awhile.
8
My objection has been that when Bill Clinton was in office, it was clear that all the Republicans wanted to do was get rid of him. It seemed like their one an only sole obsession through his entire presidency. Though Bill Clinton evidently was a philanderer and that Lewinsky affair sullied the office, their hateful obsession was also evil.
Let's not be as the Republicans were, who pointed at the speck in Bill's eye while ignoring the enormous log in their own.
4
Trumpers were upset because, both figuratively and literally, they saw this as a credible allegation!
6
Said nothing wrong. Pul-leeze. Low,low, low, how low can she go. Disgusting.
21
Well you need only look at the president you clearly like to see just how much lower she can go.
5
I agree that Ms. Tlaib's use of a verbal obscenity is a tempest in a teapot. But it's unfortunately true that there is indeed a double standard for women when it comes to unleashing the occasional swear word. Like all other double standards that women are shackled with, it's an unfair handicap - but one which sadly will take a few more generations to overcome.
In the mean time, Democrats don't need to unleash f-bombs and other cursing to enhance the passion of their messages. Let's leave that to the true vulgarians like our Current Occupant.
No, Democrats need to learn how to speak plainly, bluntly, passionately and without "weasel words" (those little verbal qualifiers that allow them to more easily "walk back" statements which ruffle some feathers). They need to "draw lines in the sand" - and then defend these lines with passion, grit, determination and without retreat.
That's what the American people want. That's what voters will respect - even if they don't necessarily agree with everything Democrats say.
Americans are sick of politicians who "talk out of both sides of their mouths", who "blow with the wind" and who are "poll-driven". What they crave are candidates who will take courageous stands on contentious issues - and then stick to their guns when they're challenged on their stated positions.
Polls consistently show that most Americans want what Democrats want. All Democrats need to do is forcefully articulate and then relentless defend these positions.
3
What's the big deal? It's just locker room talk, which our very own esteemed First Lady has explained is an acceptable excuse for using bad language. It's just too bad that Rep. Tlaib doesn't have a wife to go on a tour of the talk shows claiming Tlaib shouldn't be blamed because she was "egged on."
4
When an elected representative uses the F word in the conduct of public affairs - it's wrong.
No amount of rationalizing can change that.
17
Great clickbait NYT! Way to call 'em.
6
When Congresswoman Tlaib used the word, I thought of Orwell's comment that, "...profanity when used effectively is like a horse sneezing at bad hay."
Then I thought of the material that rests atop Trump's head and I saw the wisdom of her diction.
1
It seems certain feminists have always taken equality to mean getting to behave as badly as the worst male-foul language, drinking to excess, casual sex and affairs, putting work before family, etc. Good men don't value that in other men. It also seems that Goldberg likes to parse things so that her allies get a pass. Obama was the deporter in chief. Clinton did more than just blow smoke at Billy Bush. We need an upgrade in our civil life and discourse, holding both sides of the aisle accountable, not someone who likes her idea of social justice and fairness wrapped in vulgarity. Coarseness is coarseness, no matter what you pair it up with.
11
For now I view this as a rookie, caught up in the heady moment, mistake. But a mistake nonetheless.
Yes the GOP and Troll-in-Chief are greater offenders. That's not the point. We're in serious trouble and need serious people to lead us to stability.
Let's do move on, lesson learned, and support with hope the freshman class as well as all working to restore trust in our country.
6
No, she's a nitwit. That others are also nitwits doesn't change this. If it was a good idea, you wouldn't have to make so many excuses for it.
21
You're being less than honest when you say she said nothing wrong. You can't even print her comment in the New York Times for God's sake!
17
What a hoot - the NY Times welcoming a comment about profanity from an elected official while warning me that I cannot say what I might due to editing for "civility".
20
She's either just another of the many "Trump Derangement Syndrome" Democrats who can't control their anger or a rookie just trying to make a name for herself, --or both. Best to ignore her unless or until she demonstrates she can be an effective and responsible member of the House.
13
Well it was the people's swearing-in party. What did you expect?
Sorry I'm not criticizing any woman for swearing until the GOP ends its pearl-clutching over every little thing a Democrat does. Anyone who disagrees with me can go Cheney themselves.
(Also I hear that in Detroit this kind of salty language from women is considered 'just kitchen table talk')
4
Garbage mouth is garbage mouth: political party, sex, race, age...none of that is the issue.
She needs to respect the institutions and all the other people who comprise them. She needs to learn how to express herself without profanities.
Apologize like an adult and get on with it.
12
Rep Tlaib sure did something wrong. She is a 1) liberal 2) woman 3) of color.
1
Oh I have a few choice words for her too.
None of them polite.
And Michelle says nothing is wrong with that?
So now I have a few choice words for both of you.
But out of respect to moms everywhere, I will refrain from saying vulgarities involving some one’s mom, even if the NYT thinks it is ok to disrespect mothers everywhere.
But mark my words, Talib will be chassen to the end of her career as the xxx representative.
I can see ProIsrael people referring to her as that’s the xxx Palestinian in the house.
And the next Palestinian elected representative, will also be called as one of those ‘xxxers’
So good job Talib, you just made a stand for all of you xxxers.
6
As our discourse descends into street vulgarity, this opinion,
published in a newspaper historically dedicated to civility, makes me wonder where the Times editorial vision may be.
Her comparaisons are ridiculous .
11
Hold on to your hats. This is just the beginning.
It used to be that a women could not behave in some unacceptable way without it contaging to all women. For example, her comments are outrageous, therefore all women are outrageous.
The reactions to Representative Tlaib's expletive were about her and not viewed as representative of all women in congress. No more being cornered by other women and being told that my behavior is just making it harder for them. We appear to have moved beyond that.
Now that the house is over 20% women, I expect the rules about what constitutes acceptable female behavior to broaden. I am going to sit back and watch. This year is going to be glorious.
1
Isnt the name Tlaib derive of the same root word as Taliban?
Student or Follower or something like that. Devoted follower of some holy path?
Following in the footsteps of Ms. Ocasio......I cant wait for the Rashida Tlaib belly dance video to show up on the intenet.
1
@Wherever Hugo Um no. The Taliban are retrograde imbeciles scandalized by people dancing. Basically, they are Middle Eastern Republicans.
1
The M-word is about as bad as the C-word.
Would anyone using the latter word to describe Ms. Tlaib not be marched out of the House and be recalled?
9
It's a bit curious that Ms. Goldberg is defending the use of a word by Ms. Tlaib that the NYT is either unable to or afraid to print. If Rashida Tlaib said 'nothing wrong' why can't Ms. Goldberg write the word in question?
12
Shut up lady. Just shut up. You're new and wet behind the ears. Be a team player and take some time to find out what that means and how gov't works.
We all understand your anger and probably agree.....however
this is not the way though to increase quality dialogue, which has
disappeared into a shouting match. No one cares what you have to say at this point if that's all you have to say. I'm hoping for smart women, not loudmouth's......men or women.
10
So if Rashida Tlaib said "nothing wrong", how come none of you "brave journalitsts" will REPRINT the ENTIRE word she said? Because it's WRONG!!!
Further, by calling the President what she called him, she was implying that he does indeed have sex with his own mother. Any evidence of this being true? No.....soooo....guess what that makes it? WRONG!!!!
11
What is wrong about Tlaib's profanity is that she identifies herself prominently as a Muslim, and the use of such foul language violates the tenets of Islam (e.g. The Prophet (Sal Allaahu Alaiyhi wa Sallam) said: “The inmates of Hell are of five types….” And among them he mentioned “…the miser, the liar and those who are in the habit of abusing people and using obscene and foul language.”)
If Tlabi wants to curse she certainly has the right to do so. But it's hypocritical for her to identify herself as a Muslim and then go ahead and publicly and deliberately hurl obscenities, regardless of who her target is.
5
Tlaib's expletive proved that Trump has dragged her down to his level, where Goldberg has joined them.
7
"The rest of us, however, can tell the finger-waggers to go Cheney themselves." Ha ha
Great!
We need to change a few things in this sick society brooding to the present when relate to women.
Wrong again, Ms. Goldberg. Your whataboutism and Republican hypocrisy aside, Tlaib showed a gross lack of decorum, and she should be called out for it. It has nothing to do with her being a woman. She does realize she is now a member of Congress, right?
We get it. She has contempt for Trump and wants to impeach him. Fine. Her expletive added nothing to her comments but ugliness, and exposed her as coarse and undisciplined.
No.
12
This should prompt a rethinking of acceptable language across the board.
WHY, for example, is it acceptable to level the hateful and preposterous accusation of "anti-Semitism" against Rashida Tlaib—the Times will happily post your comment if you do—whereas referring (far more accurately) to Republicans as Nazis is forbidden, despite the fact many openly identify with Nazism?
3
If it's not a big deal to say, then Ms. Golberg why is is unacceptable to print? Women like you are so phony, pretending to be outraged by the President and nonplussed by the same trailer trash talk of Representative Tlaib. Is that the best that women have to offer this year?
13
1. Congresswoman Tlaib caught criticism for her use of a well used expletive because she is a woman and for no other reason. The double standard is alive and well.
2. Our news media continues to cover outrageous news items at the expense of much more important but less titillating stories. As long as this continues, most Americans will remain ignorant of the really important issues facing the country.
2
People are missing the point. That includes the CNN commentator who criticized Ortega Cortez's comment that Tlaib's comments were far less offensive than Trumps, by self-righteously proclaiming herself a defender of "intellectual consistency." To which I respond, "Not."
Tlaib's statement -- both the threat of impeachment and the language used -- was of different order and magnitude than Trump's. The threat of impeachment is real and, many of us feel, entirely justified. The language -- mother, etc. -- was not an admission of sexual assault, as was Trump's crotch-grabbing boast (order), and most of us would agree, I think, that crotch-grabbing is far more offensive than cursing (magnitude).
The CNN pundit was a typical under-qualified, smug, TV hireling. That doesn't excuse the rest of the "oh-my-god-there-is-cursing-going-on-here" crowd. We don't know what our political heroes of 100 years ago said on the campaign trail -- I have read that Lincoln could be somewhat ribald -- because no one was videoing them. But I think that Tliab's proposal, while impractical -- no Senate majority -- was justified, and that her language was no worse than that which I hear each day in my suburban neighborhood. Let's put hypocrisy to bed.
And that CNN commentator really irritated me. Intellectual consistency? Take off your glasses, Ms. Whatsyourname; you're not fooling anyone.
1
I disagree with the assertion that Rep. Tlaib's use of the expletive was ok. It was inappropriate for the civil discourse we Liberal Democrats demand.
I agree, however, that the Trump Presidency has become an ongoing obscenity. But we can express our anger and frustration with words we would not mind having our children and grandchildren hear.
4
I think the joke is on political pundits and anyone else taking umbrage at Tlaibs's utterance straight up. I think, beyond stating what she wishes to see regarding Trump, it was a subtle ironic echo of the language Trump himself uses, certainly at rallies and other venues much more public than the one Tlaib was at. It's probable that it was crafted to an audience that would "get it", and only becomes a thing because everyone older than 12 and can afford it has a recording studio in their pocket 24/7, and at least one of them is using it in every gathering of people.
If I'm giving Tlaib more credit than she deserves, well: no harm, no foul. But if I'm right, watch out for this woman, she's a crafty one. She was being more subtle than the language indicated on its face. Maybe she'll be another woman in Congress who can cut your head off and you won't even know you're bleeding.
What is shocking to me is the discovery that Muslim women curse!
1
Ms. Goldberg and so many commenters seem to take delight in Tlaib's profanity and the fact that women are now somehow - like men supposedly - unabashedly free to "tell it like it is". I for one find Trump an ignorant, abhorrent, vulgar, boor. But is imitating his boorish behavior a good thing or does it further coarsen our all too racing-to-the-sewer-bottom civil society? Are we all now free - encouraged! - to "tell it like it is"? And if we are, doesn't it logically follow that the idea of "microaggressions" - which until yesterday seemed sacrosanct to those now praising Ms. Tlaib - no longer apply? I for one refuse to play. But for some reason if some Republican politician decided to "tell it like it is" (as he or she believed) and called Tlaib a "homely, overweight, vulgar, narcissistic, Muslim idiot" I believe Ms. Goldberg would be the first one raising holy hell.
4
Trump debases the White House with his foul mouth; Rashida Tlaib debases the House of Representatives with her foul mouth. They are like dogs that have to be followed around by people equipped with pooper scoopers,
3
What kind of a country is it where you can't even swear at your own swearing in ceremony??
Republican lunatics are emotionally scarred from Rashida Tlaib using an everyday epithet directed at the moron in the White House and are scandalized at seeing AOC engaged in sinful DANCING!
The Republicans are a stateside Taliban--a gang of extremist maniacs.
2
I sure hope the Times is smart enough to keep Michelle Goldberg around. What a breath of fresh air! She's not only the best political writer at the Times, she has what so few in journalism these days have. She's got real guts. She'll stand for what is right against the avalanche of vile stupidity coming from the right and from the pro-Israel terror cartel. Dare I say it? She makes me feel good about being Jewish!
2
I have criticized Beto O'Rouke for littering his campaign talks with F bombs. I find nothing acceptable in Ms. Tlaib's profanity. If a politician lacks the self control needed to avoid using words like this in public settings, then I find no reason to take that politician seriously.
7
She would do better to spend her time promoting democracy in the Arab world and telling the Arab and Muslim world that the US doesn't hate Muslims, as they have been told. Her election is extremely important, but, fairly or not, she should know that her behavior will reflect upon her community. If she wants to be taken seriously, then she should leave the f-bombs for family gatherings, not public ones.
4
@Chazak RIGGGGHT. Bombing Arab countries to pieces, massacring hundreds of thousands of innocent people and setting up torture chambers is how we express our LOVE for the Arab world.
2
Right on!
Profanity stopped being a thing with the advent of cable television and PG-13 movies.
Further, as an elected representative of Michigan, she was simply stating the opinion of her constituents. I’m pretty sure they knew exactly who they were voting for. And if they do have a problem with what she says or does, then they will take it up with her. The rest of us can just mind our own representatives.
1
Michelle- Don't defend the indefensible. Right or left, it's unnecessary and sends the discussion way off base. We don't need to add to the cacophony but to cut through it.
Now, get to work, Rep. Tlaib and impeach him.
2
Why do people start piling on politicians when they act like real people? Didn't Trump get elected in part because people mistrusted the well rehearsed and cautious pronouncements of Hillary Clinton?
She's calling it like she sees it, and the outrage would be no less if she had any number of equally applicable descriptions - cheat, liar, bully, demagog, man-child, narcissist ... the list goes on and on.
1
Tlaib's language and the reaction to it is just another diversion. It's not news. I'm sick and tired of diversions. Diversions are the stock-in-trade of middle-schoolers and those adults who never grew up.
News is the miserable Trump shutdown that's harming thousands of people. News is losing our allies and making nice with our enemies. News is the lack of progress to keep our planet from melting and burning. There's more. You know what it is. It's the big stuff. Yes, I want to go high all the time, but sometimes even the people we elect use language unbecoming. It's a shame, but it's not a calamity. It's not newsworthy.
1
Tlaib is just another grandstander. People say President Trump is crude, although he would never stoop this low. Disgraceful and she used the language in front of her son. What does this say about her character?
8
Very nice. The notion that someone might "Cheney" themselves should find a place in our common vernacular. So should the description of abusive men going "full Kavanaugh." Santorum rules!
2
It most definitely IS about the language. The President’s crass mannerisms and racist leanings has given license to those who wish to emulate him. Indeed, dare I say, Ms. Tlaib may be an unwitting member of that group. She has fallen into the Presidents’ trap – he has drug us through the mud. You can follow Trump and remain in the muck, or you can provide leadership.
2
It seems to be that accepting vulgarity as part of our discourse, by men or women, regardless of ethnicity, creed, or sexual preference, cheapens that discourse. Of course Rep. Tlaib is not the first person to use the term and won't be the last (although I have to admit it's one of the few I haven't used) and I know it can be effective in expressing outrage. But let's not fall to the president's level. Be angry, express it vociferously, say it often and forcefully but recognize it diminishes your message with at least as many people as it resonates.
3
Isn't it ironic that you won't even print the "other" word following "mother-" in your column, Ms. Goldberg? If Rep. Tlaib's choice of foul language was not inappropriate (it most certainly was), then why edit it out of your op-ed?
No, Rep. Tlaib certainly had a free speech right to say whatever she wants to say, but we should expect a higher bar from the people we choose to represent us in government.
I am no fan of Donald Trump and I personally believe he should be impeached as soon as practicable, but the thrust of that discussion should be on the merits of the case made on his committing high crimes and misdemeanors, not a Congresswoman's use of an off-color adjective to describe him.
That may have a knee-jerk feel-good moment for those of us who despise Trump, but it also deflects us from the real discussion, like what it is doing here.
2
@Len On the contrary. I hold elected officials to a LOWER standard. I have to because they are, whether Dem or certainly Republican, invariably a lot dumber than the people I work with every day. US politics is just not a field that attracts bright, articulate people.
2
I think that swearing of the sort congresswoman Tlaib did is an ineffective and dumb action, a rookie's mistake. And furthermore, legal proceedings justifying a case of impeachment of Trump must precede formal action.
1
The Democrats can say nothing wrong in their attacks on Trump and Trump can say nothing on anything that cannot be criticized.
That’s the editorial policy of the New York Times
1
Rep. Tlaib must be an expert communicator.
Everyone who heard what she called Trump knew EXACTLY what she meant.
Between Tlaib and Trump, I would choose Canada.
4
In one impulsive outburst, Rep. Tlaib made Democrats, women and Muslims look bad.
Her doubling down on her comment, rather than apologizing, only makes it worse.
4
One vulgarian complimenting another vulgarian who criticized the Biggest Vulgarian...All three should apologize. Defending this behavior at any level is condescending, partisan, etc. What a shameful column, Ms. Goldberg.
4
Oh my, we have to have different standards for women than men ya know. That's just how it is. If folks don't like the language, why did they vote for the VSOG(very stable orange genius)? Women will never get a fair shake in this country. Too many misogynists and two faced folks I'm afraid.
1
Good grief. THIS is what Rep.Tlaib now has left millions of us with as our first impressions of her???!!!!
6
I despise both of them. Two peas at opposite ends of the same vile pod. Glad she showed herself right off the bat.
6
Donald Trump is a corrupt, incompetent, pathologically lying, traitorous disaster of a President. Democrats and everyone else who understands this should recognize that the absolute #1 priority is to get rid of him, either at the polls in 2020 or sooner by impeachment, and that they need to think and act with both tactical and strategic focus toward that end. An important part of this entire objective is to restore decency and respect to the office and, yes, get back to the old fashioned notion that our President should be a role model for our young people. While I understand her anger and frustration, when Rep. Tlaib uses the same language Trump uses she contributes to the debasement of our political discourse - exactly what we should not be doing at this time. I would say this regardless of her gender/sexual orientation, race or religious persuasion. I urge her to adopt Michelle Obama rather than Donald Trump as her own role model.
2
Hypocrisy rules! On Both sides!
Funny how people (ok, some politically to-the-left women) get career boosts out of rightfully criticizing the Creep-in-Chief's vulgar language as further evidence of his lack of fitness for the office, his immaturity, and his degrading view of women...
then they applaud the very same language and unprofessional conduct when the perpetrator is female and behaves like a potty mouthed brat with no sense of strategy.
Some of the same people who were insisting on protecting the Muller Investigation (as they should ) are now being vocal when, if they had any wisdom, they would know to wait. But brash is the new black, so Identity politicians get a pass.
You are right, it is stupid. And it isn't any less stupid because someone you view favorably said It. And you are right, it was dying down. But then you decided it serves your purpose.
If it was wrong when anyone else did it, it was wrong when RT did it. Otherwise, you and she are the ones operating according to a double standard. What Tlaib should now tell her son (since he has been brought into the narrative) is: two wrongs don't make a right.
2
@Allen As Michelle eloquently stated, it is WRONG to swear at football players protesting racism and it is RIGHT to swear at Republicans, a disgusting gang of filth who are not entitled to any respect or any rights whatsoever.
1
The media is addicted to parroting FOX. It's easy to be lazy and attack than to do real investigative reporting, interview powerful people and people with knowledge when you can set at your computer and regiugitate media coverage. Create a minor celebrity and then knock her down (it's more often a her).
Trump's "it's only locker room talk" or his fifteen minutes of obscenities at the last meeting with the Congressional Democratic leadership aren't news - going after a freshman congresswoman's bar talk is. Locker room obscenities, presidential meeting obscenities, no big deal. A woman's bar talk, the end of the world, stop the presses, front page news!
Shame on the lazy print and electronic media for parroting FOX and the other alt right crazies, shame on you.
The president of the United States is a lying sexual predator who is presiding over a government shutdown for no other reason than to appeal to his base's disgusting racism, and somehow plenty of people are frothing over the use of a bad word said by a congresswoman at a private event at a bar. Fellow dems, please get your priorities straight.
I also can't help but notice that when progressive dems criticize dems closer to the center on policy or messaging issues, these very same people scream about the left "eating its own". Why don't these people defend Tlaib the same way? Oh that's right- it's because she's a strong-willed Palestinian woman of color, I nearly forgot.
While freshman Democrats are struggling to be identified from the group of Thugs, Villains, and outright indicted criminals representing the present Administration, it can bring *NO help
to have the newcomers speaking and conducting themselves
*AS Thugs.
Aside from clear mental illness, and outright criminality, a hallmark of the Trump administration as been it's Global Display
of absolute lack of "Personal Class".
For a new, freshman Muslim woman to demonstrate that she already conducts herself as an example of under-educated and
no-class Rabble does egregious damage to the people she purports to represent.
Perhaps Tlaib is trying to look as "tough" as Trump. Too many people confuse the swagger of Loud-Mouthed-Bullies with the
inherent quality of human "strength".
Eleanor Roosevelt was a strong human being. Eleanor found
no need to speak like a low class illiterate to prove it.
Trump, like any bully, is a coward who is afraid of his own shadow. Speaking like Trump is no "qualification" for higher,
or for any, Elected Office.
Even the City Dogcatcher can perform the elected duties without growling like the curs he captures on the street.
If Rashida Tlaib *TRULY did "nothing wrong", this author would not be spending a full daily column in the effort to *create that
impression.
Of course Tlaib did something wrong. She was *representing OTHER people and speaking as if the people she represented
were under-educated street trash.
2
The Republican Party and 45 persistently advance their warped façade of holier than thou apostles of self consumed, misidentified Christian values of righteousness and purity. The smugness of such unabashedly shameless self idolatry is tantamount to the pot calling the kettle black. Living hypocrisy and constant double entendre are the preeminent hallmarks of the GOP priding itself of proselytizing others with their deficient brand of alleged rightness while simultaneously engaging in rank debasement of civility and honour. Just don't question 45 about his miscreant, racist, xenophobic, gender and LGBTQ expressions for fear of being on the receiving end of an extreme Twitter tirade. Ergo, the patent absence of spine, guts, and cohunes of the Republicans. Rashida Tlaib's expression is both appropriate and right on! Concise. Short. Succinct. to the point. Clear. Unambiguous. In your face. No doubts. No misunderstanding. No translation required. Just a matter of time. No "if" but simply "when" that inevitable day will arrive. After the release of the Mueller Report, hopefully that day will arrive. To quote MLK's 28 August 1963 March on Washington "I Have A Dream" speech, the eloquence just as clearly fitting in 2019 as then, "free at last, free at last. Thank God almighty we are free at last" of the bombastically inept, incompetent, and frightfully embarrassing person unfit to occupy the White House and addressed as "president." The GOP and 45 play the race card. Race matters.
I don't get it. Saying an obscenity sparks outrage but indicating there is actually such thing as a good Nazi -- “You had some very bad people in that group," Trump said, referring to the white nationalist groups rallying against removal of a Confederate statue. "But you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides.” -- is OK.
Yes, words matter. But I'd rather have my lawmakers dropping f-bombs than actually considering anyone involved in white supremacy as a 'very fine' person. That is what I call obscene.
1
Meh. It was a slow news cycle, and Trump is astoundingly good at gaslighting people. It was stupid, not sexist.
Rashida Tlaib used a nasty curse but the negative reaction was "obscene"? Really?
2
The R. Tlaib in Audie Cornish's interview (NYT 9/9/2018) who ran unopposed and the R. Tlaib of the coarse public remarks are not the same. She has now unmasked herself. I doubt she'll run unopposed again.
1
Not all Eliza Doolittle's can become My Fair Lady
Right, Michelle. Keep defending silly stuff.
2
The faction formerly known as the Democratic Party has become unrecognizable....in-your-face, holier-than-thou, virtue-signaling, identity-obsessed socialists. Moderates and independents are not impressed
Keep it up and see what happens. This ain’t high school, kiddos.
5
Independent, forceful, smart, opinionated and angry women are to be reviled and have no place in politics, according to the polotical party comprised of mostly old, white, misogynistic men. Just ask Hillary Clinton who can provide a s___load of examples over decades. If one of these upstart women is something other than pure white and Christian, the conservative racist gene asserts itself as well.
1
Michelle, the fact that I agree with you that the outrage from the right is clearly a double standard on a number of levels, begs the question: why are you writing this in the NY Times? Get this published in some right wing papers and websites and maybe it will have an impact.
1
If you get in the gutter with Trump you cannot lay claim to any high ground later. I swear often, but she was stupid to do it. Sorry, it doesn't make her look more powerful or clued in.
1
Once upon a time, we had REAL american politicians. My example will be Fiorello LaGuardia. Here was a man, son of immigrants, who stood firmly as AMERICAN....and nuthin but.
Exactly what was Fiorello's background/ It didnt matter.......he was italian, jewish, irish, native american, pioneer, butcher, baker, whatever the order of the day was.......!! He grandstanded, he refused to be associated with the Criminal elements popularized in NYC(the Mafia) , he refused to associate with Tammany Hall(the power brokers of the day...now known as the DNC) He was republican...but got along great with the dems. Or maybe he was a dem that was acceptable to the repubs....I dont know.....He was an INDIVIDUAL. For a while, all politicians followed this model.
Not today..........as Ms. Tlaib demonstrates.....politicians have to demonstate intolerance for anybody that does not exactly fit the one precise mold that the Politician pretends to be.. All departures from the perfect citizen are to be punished and condemned in Party Structure.
If Ms. Tlaib, and people like her, are to carry the day..........America is doomed.
2
If she said nothing wrong, why won't you print it verbatim?
3
"Go Cheney yourself." That's great. Gonna have to start using that one.
1
I despise Trump and regard him as everything a President should not be, BUT I find Tlaib's choice of word vulgar, infantile and politically stupid, and also, probably, historically inaccurate. I think that "bigoted, narcissistic, know-nothing, blowhard", would have been a far more precise characterization. Those who defend her in these comments do so with what-aboutisms, which are intellectual evasions which always fail to persuade and often reveal the insecure grounding of ones argument.
2
Trump is horrible, I can't defend him.
But to say Tlaib's remark was ok, while even the most benign remark from the Trump camp ( for example, when the Trump women said he was a good father on father's day) just exposes the left and the hypocrite Ms Goldberg for what they are.
It's like how the head of the DNC got a pass on his "issues" of sexual harassment, Or Mika with her anti gay slur, or the Kamala staff member who somehow came up with $400,000 to pay off a sex harassment claim and her seeming "ignorance" and tolerance of the issue.
Hypocrite phonies.
Michelle Goldberg wrote a great piece but the essence of it is profound and could have been gone into in much more depth.
What can we say about people who rapidly support the dropping of napalm on children, the total destruction of entire countries under US aerial bombardment, the sickening sadism exercised on children at our southern border for the unpardonable crime of not being born white, the gleeful destruction of our environment, the depraved massacre of precious living creatures for sport.... who are bent out of shape and outraged at a vulgar word? To put the question succinctly, can there be anything more disgusting and reprehensible than a Republican?
2
@VoiceofAmeri w
I was reading this and thought how wonderful it must be to be a loving person, free of both evil thoughts and hate, and then I got to the final line, which could only have been written by a Christ-like figure. I guess all the political hatred really is on the Republican side. Once upon a time, they were deplorable, but only two years later they have attained elevated status and are now disgusting and reprehensible. What is left for them to rise to before Pacifist Democrats come along to elevate them to the level of a burning stake?
2
This would be comical if it wasn't so (both) sad and hypocritical. Michelle Goldberg, one of the most far-left-leaning columnists on the NY Times, actually defends the language of Rashida Tlaib in a newspaper that has near conniptions internally about whether to call a woman "Ms.", "Miss" or "Mrs.", call a president "Bill" or "William", etc., and which would never allow Ms. Tlaib's particularly revolting term to be printed in its hallowed pages. Indeed, Ms. Goldberg uses only the first half of the term and then tells us she doesn't have to print the rest because we already know what it is. That's nonsense, of course. She doesn't complete the word because the Times wouldn't allow it to be printed and would probably fault her for even daring to think they would. In this comment, if I were now to type in that word before sending it off, the Times would not print it, period! But it's okay for Representative Tlaib to use it in conversation with her son and then to announce it to the world through a public forum that she knows will carry it near and far. If this is to be the level of public discourse from the New Progressives who are entering Congress (somehow it doesn't seem very "progressive" to me), Mr. Trump may well remain in office for a second term. My God, what ever happened to just plain decency and common sense where politicians are concerned?
4
The former Canadian Prime Minister weighed in to second Rashida Tlaib's description of Trump.
It is immoral NOT to describe this Republican parasite with a profane epithet.
1
The obscenity is in the White House and the political party he leads. It is the children in cages on the border. It is the laid off government workers. It is the garbage piling up in national parks. It is his conspiracy with an enemy to steal an election. It is his followers.
That my friends, is the only true obscenity that needs to be addressed.
2
Rashida Tlaib's ugly comment empowered Donald Trump. You'd have to be living in an underground, lead-lined bunker not to understand that basic fact.
My rejection of Donald Trump is absolute. Rashida Tlaib does not represent me at all. I use facts to dispute Trump. In disputing Trump, I have *never* felt it necessary to resort to gutter language. Facts are enough.
I want to defeat this man, not bask in my fifteen minutes of fame and applause from teen boys who are excited to see adult women use dirty words.
1
Let me summarize.
According to the columnist it was acceptable to use a vulgar term because Tlaib is:
A woman.
A Muslim.
A Democrat.
A colleague of a Native American lesbian.
A political opponent of President Trump.
If you check the right boxes, you're good to go right? If not, it's hate speech.
3
Tlaib gets a pass here. Next up, Goldberg will urge people to march in the next Women's March, despite the demonstrated antisemitism from that organization's national leadership. When you're on the left, the ends always justifies the means. Stalin and Mao knew that.
Republicans are outraged because they know emotional language is somewhat motivational. It shows true feelings and possibly true anger at that thing which it opposes. The last thing the GOP wants is a worked up democratic base.
The representative could have referred to the president as a philanderer, a grifter, a misogynist, a bigot, a sociopath, a liar, and possibly a criminal ( and many more). If that doesn't make him a mother, I am not sure what does.
"Trump is worse" is an unconvincing defense of vulgarity or anything else. It's why Trump should go, not why Tlaib may stay.
It's entirely possible to govern, work, perform, etc., without working blue. By all means, Democrats, take the gloves off. Please! But artless vulgarity impresses only trash people, in either party.
2
Ms. Goldberg's article boils down to the classic 5th Grader justification of bad behavior....."But Dick Cheney was doing it too!".....as if I think Dick Cheney is somebody I respect. Lemme clarify any doubts....I dont respect Dick Cheney. And now....I have no respect for Ms. Tlaib, who has proven she's a coniving, back-stabbing, power hungry so-and-so...just like Dick Cheney.
2
I use profanity when I’m passionate about something and won’t apologize for it and neither should Tlaib.
I DO think the backlash is reflective of her gender! So knock it off folks; what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.
Should we all strive to conduct ourselves politely: yes because it keeps peace. But let’s not overreact to profanity used in passion! Don’t we all have better things to focus on?
Yes, she got attention by using those words. And yes, many people think those exact thoughts (I do). But, some Americans are tired of the lack of dignity that Trump has brought to the White House. The childish language that he and others use doesn't help this country. I don't want someone who sounds like an angry 17 year old leading our country-- I have enough of that language with my own teenager. I'd like to hear some eloquence in language that is smart and thoughtful. It seems that Tlaib has just copied a page out of Trump's playbook-- shouldn't she try to be better?
1
Wrong. Apologetics driven by politics undermines what is left of your credibility.
the guy who has done more for workers than any other president in a century curses like an adult.
Cursing like a seventh-grade boy trying to impress the local hoods only makes you sound like a hood.
BETTER YET, find a way to improve millions of woker's lives - as Trump already has with the tax cuts - and then make your case.
The press can't help you, they've lost all credibility. Foreign leaders can't help you.
Mueller has nothing or else it would have leaked.
No, you'll have to actually achieve something FOR people before anyone wants to listen to you.
Am I the only one here who recognizes the mother* word for what it is: a deeply misogynist term? So why use it, if you're a feminist? To be subversive? To vent your anger? Really?
Foul language is violent language, that's what foul language is intended to be.
I can't see anything subversive in foul language. That doesn't mean I've never cursed in my life, but certainly not on the job. And I sure have stayed away from racist and misogynist expletives like the horrible mother* word.
1
Trump himself used the word mother'f in this video:
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/watch-trump-call-chinese-motherfuckers_us_5c3172a6e4b0bcb4c25c6046
There is Something Wrong in this Nothing Wrong apologia. Mich's comedy routines are almost always entertaining. Almost. This particular skit is a bit puzzling, though. The headline writer leads off with a defense of Tlaib's supposed offense, implying that what prudes and scolds call profanity is just fine whenever, wherever....But right out of the shoot, Mich dances around Tlaib's quote, belying The Times pursuit of Facts and the Truth If Tlaib said Nothing Wrong, why can't Goldberg repeat the actual term? - "mother" sanitizes the whole brouhaha and sullies The Times claim that "The Truth is worth it".... Furthermore, if Tlaib said Nothing Wrong, why can't Commenters use Tlaib's word in discussing the issue - don't tell us that none of the thousand odd Commenters didn't throw in a Nothing Wrong only to have it ----canned by the Times Civility Algorithm....Comments are moderated for civility. Who's Civility? What's with the double standard?
1
Sorry, there is no excuse for that language in public from Tlaib, Trump or anyone. To make excuses for it or worse, to condone it as this columnist for the venerable NYT seems to do for those politically aligned with her, is disgusting and indicative of just how far civility, decency and class have declined in this country. It is an appalling breach of manners no matter who does it. Period.
1
So, she cursed. I really don't care. Do you?
1
@Gabriel
I do when her speech is representing her constituency,
and not her personal opinions. She clearly has yet to grasp what the job of "Representative" entails.
We already have *FAR too many politicians on the job with zero prior experience, or demonstrated aptitude for the jobs they landed running unopposed as did RT.
Do you notice that we do not hire Airline Pilots and Brain
Surgeons that way ?
RT gives us a hint of exactly why that is.
1
.. my mom can take v to be bv bc n an .
l
Hearing and seeing Minority Leader McCarthy condemn Tlaib's language, I recalled all the times that McCarthy criticized Trump's birtherism and his calls to see Obama's Harvard transcripts. All the times = 0. Irony plus hypocrisy = X. Solve for
X.
I wish Rashida Tlaib were my Congresswoman.
For a Jew to defend this rabid anti-Semite is beyond disgusting. Her already unprofessional conduct is an embarrassment to the nation. I can only hope Congress has the sense to sideline her, at least until she knows her place, which is below the very bottom. She was only elected because Minneapolis is such a bastion of bubble-thinking leftism, that ignores all too easily the ramifications of anti-Israel positions. Jews cannot afford to be that accommodating of their enemies.
2
Tlaib is a foul-mouthed propagandist for "Palestine" who openly calls for the boycotting of Israel and the glorification of the Islamofascist terrorists.
The only reason she was elected is that her district had no one on the ballot except her to vote for.
She would have won her seat if only 2 people voted.
We must remember that she phrased her obscene rant as being directed at her own child.
This is in line with mothers glorifying the deaths of their own kids in the name of fighting Israel.
Is this honestly the image the Dems which to embrace in their fight to replace Trump?
They are playing right into his hands.
Sick.
1
She's Muslim and a woman. That's pretty high up on the intersectionality scale, so she can say whatever she wants, you know, because.
Seeing a young, female, cursing, winning, Muslim congressperson seems to have flipped every switch on the American freakout panel,
I'll take Tlaib over "Uncle Tom" Obama any day! She lets us know where she stands (just like Trump!) - no two-faced obfuscating, prevaricating or blatant hypocrisy allowed.
2
Michelle's next column will explore how it's OK to get the facts wrong as long as you're morally right. Can't wait..
2
She is a gift to the Republican monsters whose faux outrage is a joke.
1
The mouths of these two newbies, Tlaib and Cortez, along with Gov. Gavin Newsom’s eager-beaver socialist agenda in California, could easily lose the 2020 election for the Democrats.
Mark my words.
1
Michelle is the best columnist at the Times. Sharp, insightful, on target, a good writer and a much needed voice. (There used to be fierce competition for the title of worst columnist at the Times but today there's no contest. Bret Stephens wins in a landslide. )
1
Profanity should be left out of public discourse entirely. It is dismissive and enraging and it demeans both the utterer and the target. It doesn't matter who uses it. It destroys the possibility of civil conversation, and is certainly unbecoming when used against an office that should command our respect -- even if the office holder is not so respectable. People should avoid profanity like the plague.
1
I hope someone takes Ms. Tlaib aside and tells her that as a member of Congress, she's going to be held to a higher standard than foul singers, comedians or old cranks like Cheney. Maybe Michelle Obama could give her a lesson or two in 'class acts'.
3
Aloysius X.L. Pendergast said it well:
"I can see that an insufficient, or perhaps even defective, socialization process has led you to believe that four-letter words add power to language."
1
Those who KNOW what Trump is and nevertheless address him in friendly collegial terms are the people we should categorically condemn!
1
Perhaps there is nothing wrong in this un- or decivilized age for a politician to use coarse language in public, but Ms. Goldberg's praise of this particular politician has a flip side of the coin. The personal-political profiles of Rachida Tlaib, ilhon Omar, and Ram Emanuel are not spotlessly liky-white, and questions may be raised about their being faithful Usans ( = Americans).
Loved the article. When I first heard Rashida's utterance I was upset, but now you have straightened me.
I have to admit, I don't like swear words coming out of a woman's mouth. As a muslim, I felt bit let down by her as I expected her to display a higher standard. At the end of she expressed herself the way she felt and I applaud her for that. The hysteria is ridiculous and the anger is made up. For those who voted for Trump have no standing to criticize Rashida
1
"So why the fainting fit over a bad word? I suspect it has something to do with the very phenomenon Tlaib was celebrating. The new Congress looks very different from any that’s come before." Exactly. It's not about a silly curse word. A word, by the way, that is used all over the media, by young people strolling along the street chatting with each other (I'm 72 yrs. and not offended) and by white male execs in meetings. While the GOP pretends to swoon over the word (pass the smelling salts!), thousands of people are cheering Ms. Tlaib and celebrating this fresh new wave of talent and passion. I know this old lady is.
We cannot *both* decry the increasingly vulgar and disrespectful tone of civil discourse *and* give Miss Tlaib a pass here. Well, we can--clearly some do--but it just makes us look like hypocrites.
As an American who is also Muslim, I found her statement to be problematic on several counts: not the least of which is the fact that the Prophet (sawa) explicitly and repeatedly emphasized the need for courtesy in speech, even if it regards things with which we personally disagree.
Further, we happen to be in a milieu in which Muslims are increasingly subject to the most idiotic lies about us, being propagated at the highest levels of our polity. Most of the people who believe such lies have never met a Muslim, and that increases our responsibility as individual believers to maintain the standards we preach. Miss Tlaib has succeeded in "confirming" the ignorant ideas many people have of us, while violating the Sunnah on top of it, right in front of--well, God, the Prophet and everyone.
If she can't handle herself with decorum, it just gives the appearance that the mantle of political representation is too heavy for her.
As an aside, to style Daniel Pipes as a "scholar," instead of a conspiracy theorist who is not taken seriously by anyone in academia, evinces either a lack of research or a lack of judgment on the author's part.
Umm, thanks?
Not to you, Ms. Goldberg, but thank you for sharing.
Ms. Goldberg misses the point. Rep Tlaib made herself the news and distracted from the very important strategic message in Pelosi's speech regarding Democrat priorities. Tlaib should have been reinforcing that message. Instead she damaged the cause to defeat Trump with her thoughtless comments. The country desperately needs leadership that sounds like leaders. Our future influence in the world requires leaders that sound and act like leaders - not immature people.
1
Instead of re-inforcing an American System of Government based on individuals working towards effective compromise and rule of law....Ms. Tlaib immediately chose the OLD World way of One-Party Rule designed to destroy individual initiative and assert unchallenged authority to bend the law to suit the needs of Power. Shame.
1
It is ironic that Trump's sailor talk enraged the left, and now Tlaib is getting the expected pass. I guess this is the new civility Hillary promised as the left again gains power. Tlaib's language reflects more than her low personal standards, it conveys the depth of her hatred for Trump, and one can fairly assume all those to the right of her.
Exactly. I've watched Republicans crush every rule of decorum over the last 10 years, sometimes their actions are even more "profane" than anything Tlaib could utter. Republicans, in complaining about her and her colleagues. are equivalent to the Little Boy Who Cried Wolf. They complain and whine better than any infant, but nobody believes them! We all know it's faux outrage.
2
I don't frown upon her word because she's a woman, or that I'm an angel. I frown because it's coarse, vague, and immature. A much more refined, precise, and mature word she could of used is "tyrant," or "fraud," or "racist."
2
Having a mirror image of Trump on my side of the fence is a victory that will prove small, short-term, and ultimately hollow.
If Rep. Tlaib thinks that talking like that gives her stature, she's wrong. If she can't use language more eloquently to make her point, she's not prepared for her position. And she plainly hasn't thought out the consequences of a high public official modeling this conduct.
The nation is at or near an existential crisis of dividedness, like in the years leading up to the Civil War. Fanning the fires for fun is not the same as standing up strongly for one's position, and it's not necessary or constructive. At some point in the coming months, when a physical fight occurs or a hate crime happens,
will her attention-grabbing ego trip be part of the motivation?
My opinion of Mr. Trump is every bit as low as hers. I don't think we have to speak respectfully of Mr. Trump out of "respect for the office", and I don't believe that every issue should be compromised. But there's a line between this and childish, self-centered conduct by a high official with serious responsibilities in a time of crisis. I am disappointed, to say the least.
1
Sorry, that language is inappropriate in the work place-no matter who--male, female, or trans says it . It was inappropriate for Vice President Chaney to say it in the Senate and it is equally inappropriate for Rep. Tlaib to say it at a news conference. Sexual comments are never acceptable in the workplace.
2
"This new face of American political power makes a lot of people uncomfortable."
They thing that makes me uncomfortable is the anger evident in our public discourse, which apparently titillates Ms. Goldberg. Anger is also evident on a regular basis in her columns, and in this one she even lauds "fury" among her lady friends. As someone whose life experience is almost double hers, I am compelled by a simpatico that comes with age to warn Michelle that anger, rage and fury consume those who embrace it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anger
Are angry women in politics good for America? Are angry men? Is anger a productive emotion or is it a handicap? Dems displayed bitter wrath during the Senate hearings on the nomination of Kavanaugh. Look what it got them: Kavanaugh was confirmed, and I suspect enough Americans were so angered by the Dems' outrage it may have reduced the swing away from the party in power from the 60 House seats lost by the Dems during Obama's first midterm to the measly 40 house seats the Dems took back in Trump's first mid-term.
As long as Dems in Congress--especially women--behave as though they are mafioso on a vendetta against Trump, they will ruin any chance they would have had to contribute positively to the nation's welfare. If women have a genetic advantage over men in politics, the quality of being slower to anger may be foremost.
2
Instead of beginning her career on a high note with an upbeat inclusive message, Ms. Tlaib played right into Trump's hand by descending to his level. I get that it's street language and not a mortal sin but she will now have a very difficult time being taken seriously by a great many reasonable people and that's a shame. It's not a question of whether Ms. Tlaib said something wrong or not. She said something that was utterly unproductive and reflected poorly on her judgement as a newly elected public figure.
1
" But it’s not a secret that a lot of Democrats want to see Trump removed from office; on Thursday, Representative Brad Sherman, Democrat of California, reintroduced an impeachment resolution in the new Congress."
Correct.
Those who clamor for impeachment need to re-read Lear.
Plotters get but once chance to kill the king.
Trump is clearly on his way out, but the time to impeach him is not here yet; it is coming.
Rep. Tlaib's rhetoric is premature and gratuitious.
As Michelle Obama has contended, when they go low, we go high.
AND THAT'S THAT.
We should NEVER offer civility to Republicans. These are destroyers of our world. We should never pretend they are due the same consideration as others in society. They manifestly are NOT. Rashida Tlaib expressed the utter revulsion decent people feel when confronted with Republicans. People are right to be outraged at the Republicans and right to express this outrage in extreme terms, lest there be any doubt.
1
I have no problem with Tlaib's language nor her opinion of the Trumpster, but I do have a problem with her message that Trump must be impeached. The Democratic leadership is playing it cool on that subject, and for good reason. If an impeachment resolution makes it out of the House, it will surely be squelched by the Senate; and if Trump is actually removed from office we'll be stuck with Mike Pence, who is even worse than Trump.
The Republicans will never give up the immoral opportunism, the bad faith, the racism and the misogyny. But the gormless clucking pundits can and should do better. They must ask themselves, for instance, for whom are they pundit-ing?
Tlaib, Ocasio-Cortez: I call that going to Congress like everybody else but doing it backwards, on a high wire, using stilts, juggling, with two dwarves on your shoulders, blindfolded.
One double standard for a woman. Double that for a woman of color. Double it again for a Muslim woman. And yet again for a progressive Democrat.
What were they really thinking? Those histrionic Republicans and those gormless clucking pundits? They were applying the conventional set of double standards.
Yes, there it was, the inevitable fainting fit by Republicans, straight out of Sunday school, and "the gormless clucking of pundits," straight out of the both-sides-do-it school of rhetoric, and Sunday school.
Yes, Representative Tlaib merely said what most Americans are thinking. And, believe me, they are thinking it precisely that emphatically, whether or not they are using an actual swear word.
Which Tlaib did eloquently and with considerable sophistication.
1
Insinuating sex with someone's/everyone's mother is supposed to be a positive use of moral imperative? I suppose now in the times of women's claim to equality they should gravitate to boorishness as if it were a sign of "you've come a long way baby?" and move over men "we can be just as obscene as you".
I remember when I used to respect women a whole lot more than I do now.
1
You catch more flies with honey.
Uplifting, noble oratory works, too. Inspire.
Don’t get dirty fighting in the gutter.
Now please, give us something better to remember about the new Representative.
1
Civility is a value neutral idea, as is vulgarity. For our norms to work they require that both parties fully agree to abide by them. However this has not been the case for a long time. There's a reason for this, which is that the average Democrat prizes process above all else. They believe in the concept of value neutral governance. Where the process being followed will render any and all ideas that run through them to be positive. The GOP however has real ideological beliefs about how the world should work and how to get there. The process to them matters less then the results. So they can steal a Supreme Court justice and push through a rapist and still abide their values, because their values are outlawing abortion. The process is only useful if it serves this larger agenda. If the Democrats had any real beliefs or ideas beyond "respecting the norms" "civility" or "bi-partisanship" for their own sake, they would be a real opposition. As opposed to being a bunch of scolds wagging their fingers.
This is the real problem here, those wagging their fingers have a nice position as the ONLY alternative to Trump. Tlaib and Ocasio are quickly proving that there's an alternative to being a scold with no real values. That we too can have a moral compass in politics and should actually fight for the things we believe in. They're afraid that this class of politicians will make them completely redundant.
Michelle was right and bravo to you!
I wonder what the overlap is for people tsk tsking Ms. Tlaib is and the people who freak out over college campus safe spaces are. I bet if it was a Venn Diagram it would just a single circle.
You go girl for showing your 8 year-old by example the right way to express his thoughts in public.
1
Decorum is decorum, and an elected official needs to remember that.
That there is a criminal obscenity of lying and filth flowing from the White House in no way justifies the lack of upright dignity that Rep Tlaib displayed.
It's an absolute embarrassment that waters down the degrading criminality of DJT that an elected official would speak like this in public.
I'm tired of this. I'm so tired of having to look at my child and tell them to behave differently than their elected officials.
If she didn't say anything wrong, why didn't you include her entire quote?
I've been fortunate to meet a lot of very smart and creative people. Some of them would sooner die than use a four letter word and others swear like sailors. People come in all shapes and sizes. Indeed, the very same individual can be highly reserved in most settings and scathingly, sometimes obscenely direct in others.
I try to ask "who is this person? What are their values? Do they care about our society, about those less fortunate? Do they have something original to say? Do I respect what they are all about, irrespective of their delivery?"
In some ways, I give a person like Rashida Tlaib MORE licence to say whatever she wants. Palestinians like her have suffered terrible oppression thanks to the US and Israel and for standing up for herself and against human rights abuses, she gets labelled "an anti-Semite." She has every right to put these people down and call them foul names. She's earned it and they richly deserve it. Go Rashida!!
Loving instructive maternal insight and assurance from Rep Tlaib to her son. Thank goodness my mom did not share Tlaib’s “passion”. What I did learn from her, though, was that two wrongs don’t make a right.
Rashida said vulgar words which is wrong. Yes, Trump has been using this kind of vulgar or worst all the time. If dog bites you, you do not bite dog. Now the House is under the Democratic control. Now you can not play Tit for Tat. They have to be responsible and dignified . Nobody should imitate Trump.
She should swear more. The old world of politics you once knew is over. Time to fight fire with fire.
Or schmucks like Trump will keep winning.
2
Her language was appropriate for a citizen, not for a government official. The message gets lost in the envelope that carried it.
4
Her remarks are harmful because they are badly timed. Perception of all newly elected members of the house took a hit, unfairly or course, but politics is the art of the possible. Rational analysis doesn't come in to it. It is not possible for her words to be judged according to Michelle Goldberg's essay.
2
@Bill Michelle Goldberg illustrates what an intelligent person thinks of Tlaib's comments whereas the Republican response aptly demonstrates what stupid people with bad minds make of the whole affair.
1
Owing to my age and upbringing, I still consider profanity to be the refuge of the illiterate. I use it from time to time, but then, I'm not considered anything special. (I'd never use it publicly, though.)
It's okay, illiterates are people too, and sometimes need refuge. We all deserve to be heard. I don't spend much time thinking about Michiganders, but now when I do, I'll think of that first impression made by the person they elected to represent them.
While, I'm not scandalized by her words, neither am I impressed by any unusual clarity of vision or skill in communication that they convey. Like most of the members of our elected bodies, she seems to be just another kid on the block.
However, I don't think the statement could've created a net gain for her or anyone else, so I can only guess that she didn't really think it through -- at least not enough to err on the side of safety. That's a net negative in my book, but you might see it differently
Well, at least it's an even match.
4
Ms. Tlaib aptly represents a disturbing trend in America...a possibly a very self-destructive trend.
Yes, Ms. Tlaib represents America....more power to her.
HEre's the problem we all share with Ms. Tlaib.
For most of our generations, we have stood for inclusiveness.....that requires ABANDONMENT of the past.
We all come to America to escape the restrictions of culture, the confinement within a narrow authoritarian regime.
But now today, we still mislead our selves about inclusiveness.....We are NOT including anybody.....we are separating ourselves into tribes that PRESERVE ancient cultures that are effectively pulling us back into exactly the state we hoped to escape.
Ms. Tlaib is the most current standout of this misguided pride in something which is not inclusive at all.....she demands to have special treatment, to have all the oppresive aspects of her unique "culture" protected..........
This is exactly why her "homeland" is such a horrible place to live right now...and also explains why a most "american" place such as Detroit gives her a chance to escape. She has taken full advantage of America and gives nothing back.
4
@Anne Sherrod
Words have meanings and clearly some require a little thought to capture their essence.
I am not talking like the compound words that abound in the writings of Hegel, Feuerbach and Marx. Almost impossible to translate into English but meaningful nonetheless.
Mother...... is not one of those. Yet if you want to describe what Donald Trump is, it really is impressively precise.
A mother...... has no sense of ethics, morality and even aesthetics. He violates any norm associated with those three concepts.
It fits Donald J Trump like a glove.
We have lost civility when we elected Trump. We lost civility when we let McConnell get away with the crime against Garland. Even before that we lost civility when we were lied to by the President, Vice President and Secretary of State about a Sovereign State we attacked because we were told they possessed weapons of mass destruction, and we believed them.
Civility is not just minding our language in public. I am sure you know that.
3
Methinks you see the issue through a fairly rational Canadian lens. Our US lens is, in tonality and cosmological terms, red-shifted.
1
I'm proud of Michelle Goldberg for composing this piece about Rep. Tlaib's use of an expletive. And I'm proud of Rep Tlaib's theatrical flair for using street language to characterize our President...someone needed to stand up and say that.
And thank you for reminding us of the glaring hypocrisy Republicans routinely dish out. I remember the absolute silence from Republican ranks when Cheney used profanity on the floor of the Congress, and the time the Representative rudely interrupted President Obama to call him a liar, also on the Congress floor.
I guess I am using the "what-about-ist" rhetorical technique to draw a comparison and gain some perspective, but in the end, what Tlaib remarked at a political rally is almost incomparable to what Republicans hypocritically serve up in the halls of Congress.
134
@Chuck Agreed! Well said!
5
@Chuck So you want to get in the gutter with the trash?Whataboutism gets us nowhere except in a downward spiral. It's good to hear peoples opinion's, though.
5
@Chuck
So Repub bad behavior excuses Tlaib? Liberals always tell us that they are the party of class and education but yet your excuse is that one wrong excuses another.
4
My grandfather used to say that profanity is the effort of a weak mind to express itself forcibly.
He was right. English is a versatile language in which powerful ideas can be expressed without employing crude words.
Rep. Tlaib needs to get her tongue out of the gutter. Ms. Goldberg needs to stop being an apologist for a newly elected politician's foul mouth.
5
Mind blowing that the Party that voted over 50 times to deprive millions of Americans access to health insurance, without having in place any suitable substitute, now is outraged by one, solitary word uttered at a private gathering by a newly installed, freshman Congresswoman. This morally bankrupt collection of hacks, stooges, hypocrites, lowlifes, and the plural of the term that said Congresswoman used to describe the Fake President, richly deserve to be consigned in 2020 to the “ash heap of history “.
4
I find it more offensive when politicians use false folksy language as a shortcut to appearing authentic. What could be more condescending than some politician's hackneyed pantomime of Americana?
Remember when Al Gore rolled up his sleeves and said in 1997 "This administration has always been proudly pro-union, pro-worker, pro-strong family, and I guaran-damn-tee you, we always will be?" Guaran-damn-tee? Really? If you're going to swear, at least try not to sound like such a phony.
As much as I would prefer having a grown up talk about policy, our country is in a crisis. Trump is a crisis. The Republican Party is a crisis. Their party has sent criminals to Congress and one to the White House. It is the party of Roy Moore and Arpaio and Palin and Hannity and "I'm not a witch" and "legitimate rape."
The Congresswoman spoke with passion and clarity. It was authentic. It was totally suitable for this moment.
1
What a vile human being.
Hate the president. Fine.
No room for antisemitism in this country. You don’t like it, leave.
What a poor excuse for a stateswoman, mother and wife.
Yuck
6
@There Nice try with the "anti-Semitism" load of baloney. People just laugh at you for saying stuff like that and the net effect is to rob "anti-Semitism" of all legitimate meaning. Is that your intention?
1
"When Trump called athletes who knelt to protest police brutality “sons of bitches,” the problem was bigotry, not salty language. When he was caught boasting about sexually assaulting women, the issue wasn’t that he used a slang term for female anatomy. It’s Trump’s foul actions and ideas, not his swearing, that make him a walking obscenity."
Argue what you will, I'm sure some agree with you.
But, many do NOT.
BOTH CONTENT AND FOULNESS ARE OFFENSIVE.
The so-called president occupies our nation's highest office and elected representatives hold offices of stature and status.
We should, we MUST expect more from our leaders. It's the way leaders LEAD.
1
I'll say the same thing I said about Kathy Griffin when she was pilloried for holding a fake Donald Trump head in her hand: Nothing.....NOTHING that these brave, honest women could say or put out on the internet equals 1/100th of the damage Trump does to our country with his actions, every single day and twice on Sundays.
10
@James Mazzarella
Maybe so, but Tlaib probably got Trump a few more votes there.
1
Yeah, I'll say it: Only white people, and only white men, are allowed to use curse words.
There. Now it is in black and white. Now there is no question why there is so much outrage over the comment. Women and people of color must have decorum in all facets of public life otherwise they won't get elected president, they won't get a job, if they get shot by a cop it's because they didn't act right, their very patriotism will be questioned, they will be seen as unbecoming because anger is unbecoming and we have to make sure that white men don't feel uncomfortable...and on and on it goes.
It's just so sad that people commenting here believe that this societal rule is okay. That's a travesty.
4
@Elle Rose
You have a very odd notion if you think a societal rule says that says “white people” can be as uncouth as they want, and everyone else must be stellar.
The Howard Sterns and Donald Trumps of America are NOT admired by most Americans.
@Elle Rose: I understand the outrage, I really do. But in this case, you're overreaching. You've subscribed to the ideology that the evil white man is trying to keep us down. Through this lens, the reaction to Tlaib's utterance seems "obscene" as Goldberg puts it.
But in reality, lots of well-meaning, progressive-minded people of all genders are repulsed by her words, not because they are racist or sexist people, but because they simply abhor the divisive nature of her words in a polarized political climate badly in need of some civility and compromise.
More broadly, pitting minorities and women against the evil white man is as dangerous as it is counterproductive. To blame society's problems on a specific group of people of a certain race/gender ("everything is the white man's fault," e.g.) is never a good idea. That leads, in this case, to reverse racism/sexism. It divides us rather than unties us.
You do realize that we will need to rely on the votes of some well-intentioned white men for progress? So quit alienating the good ones with this "us or them" mentality.
@Elle Rose I disagree. If a newly-elected young male in her place had said the same thing, it would be considered crude and out of place. Depending on that male's manner, physique, body language, and tone of voice, it might be seen as threatening and might receive a much worse reaction than Ms. Tlaib has received.
If being able to talk like that, without those consequences, is part of being female in this society, perhaps it is not something to complain about.
"[The uproar] certainly wasn’t about the profanity itself. " Well, yes it was. Using that word was entirely unnecessary and just allowed the Trumpistas to try to distract everybody from the President's outrages. The Democrats need to stop handing ammunition to the bad guys.
12
I dunno...I never swore in the workplace, I just thought it was crude and was sure I ought to be able to express myself without resorting to that. Abd I thought others should, too. But there is no question, women politicians are held to a standard so different from men, it borders on the supernatural. I agree completely with the representative that you have to be who you are. Integrity is absolutely vital, in any occupation. And of course, Trump does need to be impeached and I am tired of all the strategizing about the fallout from that...Congress needs to step up right now and do its duty. As with swearing, come what may!
1
Anecdotal comment based on 60 years of multiple societies I've been a part of or observed: Many vulgarities used rarely and/or occasionally then have become more widely used now. I include myself as one of these users. But still unacceptable today is the use of m____r f____r. It's considered extremely crude and none of the groups that I am a part of or know uses it.
4
Sorry, Ms. Goldberg. Mr Trump and Mr Cheney's use of foul language does not excuse the junior Congresswoman's words or actions. I assume that Speaker Pelosi has pulled her aside.
If Ms.Tlaib means to faithfully serve her term, she had better study up on her language and priorities. If her goal is to whip up base emotions, she might be reminded that national security is at stake.
Not a good idea to dismiss her swagger.
8
It’s women, not men, who have caused our society to become so uncivil. This country was founded by men. The Mayflower Compact was created and signed by men only. The Constitution was created and signed by men only. This country’s security is ensured only by men. But men gave women the right to vote and they’re bringing female behavior into our government and the men don’t know how to deal with it. And that’s what’s causing all the problems. Women are not men. They’re wired different. And this is never going to change. But, as woman gain more and more power through the ballot box, the men will revolt, because men will never be governed by women. Western society is headed for trouble, because women aren't going to vote against their own interests, but men will never allow women to gain power over them.
Actually, that kind of language has no place in civil discourse, regardless who is saying it. Foul language, anger, and a false sense of superiority all indicate insecurity....usually from perceived self weakness....
8
@Lucifer Liberals ARE superior. Sorry, that is just a fact. Look at ALL the high achievement in physics, mathematics, philosophy, literature, film, music and on and on. Republicans are NOT on the map. You can't name one. They're inferior and we should be honest enough to say so.
1
I strongly object to Ms. Tlaib's language, even though I agree that Trump is terrible. Ms. Goldberg, it's not hypocritical or priggish to oppose the spread of obscenity into political discourse. And it's no excuse that Cheney and Trump did it first. We're not going to win over Trump supporters -- or people who aren't sure about him -- with four-letter words.. I think it will alienate them. Use standard English --- a rich resource --- to hold Trump accountable, and to govern.
9
@Christopher Turque I wish Dems would get OFF this silly argument. You will NEVER convince any Republican of anything. Their brains are mush and they are not capable of learning. That's why they are Republicans. The name of the game is getting out the vote in minority areas, not converting Republicans and other hopeless cases.
1
To me, what she did wrong was run from the cameras the next day. If you say something like that, either defend it on camera, or take it back on camera. Running just looks cowardly and proves you're no where near as tough as you talk.
5
DJT is shocked, shocked that someone has as much of a potty-mouth as he does.
Was it a smart thing to say? No, and I hope Rep. Tlaib puts her future emphasis on becoming an effective legislator for her constituents who just elected her.
But if you're going to pillory someone for being vulgar, how about we start at the top?
3
This so called politician ran unchallenged...she just another psychopath but with a litany of devotion to anti-semitism, malfeasance and classless vernacular.
12
@Beast Trying to strip "anti-Semitism" of all meaning? Good job. It's working.
1
In America, where public expressions of disagreement are regularly greeted with intolerance, often if you express an opinion contrary to another, people will either claim that you have expressed personal intolerance (or prejudice) which must not be tolerated, or spoke in an improper manner. (They may believe it). Perhaps you "raised your voice" in pseudo-violence, used naughty words, or didn't show respect.
This is deeply etched in a culture oriented more to liberty than democracy. By which I mean not voting, representatives, and majority rule, but the kind of everyday interaction in which one person says something about something (of consequence) to someone.
Our corporate culture needs this: all on the team should feel comfortable; make small talk or say only what is relevant to getting the job done. Students at our corporate modeled universities, buying a position in the middle class, act similarly by combatting supposed prejudice in safe zones excluding speech that offends. And our schools often merely tell kids what to believe, and not how to think.
In our political culture, argument is about winning, not thinking. All are part of a faction, and want to win, get votes or contributions, or get their policy agenda adopted.
People can attack opponents gratuitously for personal sins. Ours is an ad hominem culture. Politics is war between partisan groups, or lobbies.
But personal attacks are bad arguments. We can win on ideas.
1
Being polite means accepting the power structure's rules and control over our behavior.
If you worry all the time about offending people you are going to change a d*mn thing.
And we need to challenge and change our "President".
1
Delighted though I am by Ms. Tlaib's election and presence in the house along with the other Democratic fresh(wo)men, I do object to the salty language--all of it. Sadly for me and my pearls, I think that ship has sailed.
1
My prediciton as a social scientist is the Ms.Tlaib will benifit from this outsized media event about her, and stand out among her less known peers. Here I am not suggesting Tlaib calculated for effect when she used the vulgarity, but just pointing out a familiar dynamics in parlimetary politics--exposure helps a freshman's career, even when it is negative. For years now, in Taiwan and South Korea, conscious adoption of this trick has been routine, and extreme behaviors include punching someone's face or pulling a lady's hair.
If Congresswoman Tlaib wishes to become the Michelle Bachmann of the Democratic party, that is her choice. By cursing at the President (I know, he has done worse) and declaring Israel supporters to have 'dual loyalty' she will never be taken seriously, much as Cong. Bachmann wasn't. If it is her plan to gain a lot of attention, then cursing and smearing people works well.
6
@Chazak Many Israel supporters OPENLY value Israel over America. It's not a secret and it's not a conspiracy theory, it's a fact.
And it's absurd to label the exposure of this fact as "anti-Semitism, especially since A) many of the most rapid pro-Israel fanatics are NOT Jewish, but rightwing Christian evangelicals like Pastor Hagee and B) because the most blistering criticism of Israel has actually come from Jews, some of whom are ISRAELI Jews (Amira Hass, Gideon Levi, Yeshayahu Leibowitz, to name a few. Even Einstein was scathing in his characterization of Israeli criminality).
1
I found it strange that Rep. Tlaib should have used the epithet that I consider the most misogynistic there is.
This kind of talk is not helpful in advancing the goals of the Democratic Party or the needs of the people of the USA.
If this turns out to be typical of her future behavior (it's too soon to know), then I don't see a great future for her.
8
The congresswoman said nothing wrong? I don't even need to read the article to know that it's an apologia for her crude language and inappropriate behavior. The headline says it all.
That said...
The congresswoman said that she used the obscene word in question *while speaking to her young son.* Does Ms. Goldberg care to defend an adult woman and mother of a young child using such language, when speaking to that child?
This woman did no less than demonstrate her absolute lack of judgment, self-control, and propriety. She not only used a vulgar term in public, while threatening the president of the United States, but she also claimed to have used that same language while speaking to a child.
She is reprehensible. Period.
6
This is brilliant.
2
Read the transcript. Trump did not say that he assaulted women.
2
This person is a Muslim woman who had the audacity to run and get elected. How dare she! A woman! A Muslim woman! Uttering a vulgar, but apt term, to describe our president - a term now heard so often in the home, in the streets, in lyrics, in stand-up, on Face Book and Twitter, and yes even uttered by famous people and politicians in the past - How dare she!!!!! How dare SHE!
You gotta love the irony. She is my hero.
4
I'm an older Independent-mostly leaning Democratic and I found the new Congresswoman's words to be offensive and pointless, mostly because by alienating people within seconds who were not on her side, she lost a valuable platform for moving forward.
DJT operates like a willful adolescent who lets his bravado get the best of any intelligent discourse or planning. Anyone who advises that we go low when they go low is trying to fight fire with fire, and believe me, djt is much more of an expert at going low than anyone else will ever be.
Shock value is just that, and while I'm sure it was a crowd pleaser for some, by using offensive language she diminished the value of the thoughts she was offering, never mind upending carefully thought out strategy for making sure Muller's work is not in vain.
5
No Ms. Goldberg, you couldn't be more wrong and your ideological simpatico with the left wing identity politics group within the caucus has clouded your conclusion.
No less a personage than the new chair of the House Oversight committee, Mr. Cummings of Md. (who need I mention is African-American) has stated that it is "civility" in all our dealings in Congress which must rule the day. He's right.
Defending this on your "what about" Trump, Cheney et. al. argument, coupled with what sounds like a double standard (special profanity rule for the "marginalized") gets you nowhere. We can and must do better than the crudeness and racism and lack of common decency on the other side. During the Great Crusade for civil rights in this country, the marchers held their heads high and did not respond in kind when spat upon, heckled, jostled , cursed or even set upon with clubs, dogs and fire hoses. A proud legacy. Don't trash it.
8
The problem with Ms. Tlaib's comments was that they have provided yet another distraction from the serious work that the Democrats in the House have ahead of them. Her five seconds of delicious self-satisfaction have handed the deceptive Republican propaganda machine more grist for its mill. And perhaps most damaging, provided an all-too-convenient reason for those Americans already inclined to dislike Muslims, to continue doing so. Even in an age of rapidly minted media stars, there's still something to be said for arriving on an even keel, learning the ropes, focusing on the job she was elected for, and earning the respect of one's peers and the public based on reliable competent performance.
5
If a Republican rookie representative had said the same thing about Barack Obama, I wonder what Michelle's reaction would have been?
Actually, I don't.
7
Some folks say the meaning of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. Going high when they went low got us 45. Sometimes you have fight the Bully on his terms. If you find out appealing to Bullies better angels does not stop them from taking your lunch maybe you need to try a new tact.Crying foul when McConnell refused to give Judge Garland a hearing really did wonders? My dear grandmother told me when i was a child that when reason fails sometime a well planted punch to the nose will let the bully know enough is enough. I salute Ms Tlaib because I have grown tired of The Right taking our lunch money.
2
This was not a speech. It was not a town hall meeting. It was not a debate. It was not in a mailer to constituents. IT WAS A CELEBRATION IN A BAR, recorded on a cellphone. Get a grip, people. There are huge problems in this country, and in the world. There are enormous tasks ahead. And we are taking about this? And AOC's dancing on a roof? Are you so shocked that a woman could actually say it? You need to get out more.
At first, I thought I should condemn the hypocrisy of those who criticize Tlaib but did not criticize Trump. And I then I thought I should condemn the hypocrisy of those who criticized Trump but do not criticize Tlaib.
But now I see what Michelle Goldberg is saying: Trump used profanity and vulgarity in the service of bigotry and sexism. Tlaib is using it in the service of righteous indignation over an immoral and incompetent president.
That's a good distinction to make. All profanity is not created equal!
2
When I meet a man upon the street I treat him with respect. Not because I know he is a gentleman, but because I know that I am.
4
We have 2 new Congresswomen making the headlines. I am opposed to most of their ideas but here is where my opinion of them differ. Alexandra OC is young and full of ideas and I like her spunk and videos. There have bee Ltina members of Congress before her so her . Rashida T is the first female Muslim to win office and all that we know about her is that she can be just as crude as Trump.
4
Just so tired of the language police. There is/was absolutely nothing wrong with what she said, it was completely true. Most of you have made me so mad with your non enraged comments for the past two years. Let's tip toe through the lying and tell our children they cannot do this but the president can. They are not allowed to call people names, but the president can. I have not understood why more people were not swearing, I sure was. I find most of you hypocritical, it is totally impossible to go lower then the president.
2
If Representative Tlaib was trying to make a point for her son (among others), why would she use language that she (presumably) wouldn’t want him to use?
Cursing in a public setting like this is wrong. The fact that Trump, Cheney, and all other sorts of politicians may use it doesn’t make it right. And I’m thinking about both men and women.
I’m very pleased that our elected officials, especially after the mid-terms, are starting to look more like the citizens they represent. Had Tlaib made this comment in private, there would be no problem. But when any public figure, man or woman, curses in public to express anger, it’s simply wrong. It’s also not very effective at conveying an idea or opinion.
I curse, so I’m not throwing stones in a glass house. But this isn’t an issue about Ms. Tlaib’s gender or her ethnic background, it’s about acceptable public speech.
So, no, I wasn’t ok with it, and especially because first impressions are so important. Even though I liked what she said and I share her sentiment, I wish she could have found a more gracious way to express it, if for no one other than her young son.
2
This is not a question of gender, background or leadership ability. Although I may agree (in part) with Tlaib's perspective I absolutely disagree with her use of profanity in a public setting, especially when addressing issues of national import. There are great role models in our government who are superb communicators and do very well without the use of profanity - Nancy Pelosi, Maxine Waters, Chuck Schumer, Jerry Nadler, Chris Coons, Elizabeth Warren, Michelle Obama - leaders who I would want my children to listen to. In a rare display of presidential dignity, Trump's response to Tlaib's profanity was appropriate - her use of profanity as an expression of a political position was a disgrace to her family and to the country.
3
@TR NJ
"In a rare display of presidential dignity, Trump's response to Tlaib's profanity was appropriate "
Presidential dignity? Really? When did Trump achieve that? Was I not paying attention? Maybe it was when he said the White House was a dump. Yes, that must have been it.
@Dr. Vinny Boombah Yes, to be specific, in the middle of his rant and lies at the Rose Garden press conference, when asked by a journalist about Tlaib's profanity, he dropped the rhetoric and gave a dignified response. Give credit where credit is due.
1
It is the time for a return to civility, Michelle Obama words, “when they go low we go high”. Rules of conduct, personal deportment & demeanor are ways in which we can distinguish ourselves from this disgraceful vile immoral presidency. Our standard for change & reform doesn’t have to sink to vulgarity. I watch/read & swear in my home, not in public or in the presence of children. We need to be the adults in the room.
2
Rep. Rashida Talib, all I have to say is thank you. I am grateful for your anger. Please keep using it as an energy cell. Because let's face it, all women know exactly why you were so quickly derided, simply put sexism. Personally, I will not allow it. I support you and realize what you are doing, so thank you.
"The hysteria over Tlaib’s four-syllable word is like a warning to them, and to all the women just starting their careers on the national stage, not to show how livid they really are, to stay in line."
3
Nice! (Or maybe not.) Great rhetorical flourish at the end. This kind of gender analysis is needed all the time now.
She tweeted in March: “Why am I running? Because this is about electing the jury to impeach (POTUS) and I will make a heck of juror.” This is a shallow reason for wanting to be elected. If her focus is so narrow minded she will surely be a disappointment.
1
I have reservations about the emphasis on impeachment before we hear from the special counsel. But I am happy to have the incoming class metaphorically knock over a few trash cans and kick in some doors to underline the changing order.
I thought the reason people were so up in arms was that, even before being sworn in, Rep. Talib was screaming for impeachment before anything else, even though the Leader had already said her belief is that impeachment is divisive and not the best way to go, especially since all the evidence from the Mueller investigation and House inquires is not yet in place. more about being a team player or a single issue rep than a determined woman who talks like a sailor. hope sne doesn't get off on the wrong foot because we need her voice in the House!
Where was the Republican indignity at Trump’s use of obscenities? The hypocrisy is mind numbing. It’s all about power for Republicans. Doing what’s best for the American people, for society, is the last thing on their minds.
That's an expression Mr. Trump undoubtedly used/uses casually. Which is exactly what Cong. Tlaib did, around her political campfire. Kumbayah!
I deeply believe POTUS deserves impeachment, indictment and imprisonment.
Along with his crimes, his pathological lying is outrageous.
So is his perpetual crassness.
Men who are a vulgar and crass are not cool, hip, strong, etc.
They are crass.
While women should never be held to different standards than men, women who are crass are not cool, hip, strong, etc.
They are crass.
And when those in the higher echelons of our political landscape stoop to crassness, no matter what their gender, they cheapen themselves and they cheapen the national dialogue.
3
Tlaib should have abstained from vulgarity.
The sentiment was 100% solid, the choice of words was not. We must not descend to their level.
2
All this kind of language does is increase the chances of DJT being re-elected. Ms. Tlaib needs to remember the words of our last 1st Lady Michele Obama, "when they go low, we go high".
135
@R Kern ... And how did that sage advice work out? It gave us the nightmare of Trump.
No more bringing a feather duster to a gun fight! None of our big ideas mean ANYTHING unless we win and take power.
32
@R Kern I'm afraid that was ten years ago, now. It was fitting for the times then, but now, more is expected.
Trying to move forward in a chariot with flat tires will not work. You need an army tank today.
6
@Servatius
Things can be said that appropriately frame the problem and criticize without debasing ourselves. Otherwise, we all deteriorate into the gutter. There is no feather duster here. Call out the lies; the betrayal, the entire smorgasbord. Just do it with dignity.
9
From reading the comments here, it seems many readers expect Democrats to act obedient, servile, and always respectful even in the face of bigotry and disrespect and manipulation and racism and sexism and everything we've seen in the last couple of years. I say no. I say enough is enough. I say no more "when they go low, we go high". There are many ways to fight, many ways to resist. One curse word, after what we as a nation have endured in the last few years, does not make thee a coarse, crude person. One, well-placed curse word expresses frustration and channels the anger into the fight to stop this presidential embarrassment from ruining the rest of our country.
4
Your main argument is that Ms. Tlaib's profanity is justified considering that Republicans have used similar terminology in the past? Or that the outrage is disproportionally linked to the fact that she is a woman? I am sorry but your reasoning does not fly and I am relieved to see that most comments on this page disagree with you. I personally wish men and women alike would just stop using foul language to make any points; and when it is an elected public figure even more so; starting at the very top... How about washing their mouth with soap for using vulgarities. It would be a good example for our children.
4
Well said. It’s also been said, and I agree, that people who need to use profanity to make a point aren’t bright enough to come up with better phrasing.
Hey I curse, and I don’t think I’m dumb. But I try to catch myself and then ask myself what else I could have said. Now the focus for Ms. Tlaib is on her language, when it should be on the positions she took to get elected in the first place.
3
This president and the Republicans who enable him deserve the insult and much more too. BUT, what Democrats must show is that they are better than them. Getting into the same cesspool with Trump may serve to let off some steam, but will not solve the fundamental problem of rescuing American democracy.
2
I agree with most of the things Michelle Goldberg said. But just because others (especially men) say and do it doesn't mean it's OK for her to say anything no matter how offensive. Imagine the condemnation if a Republican White Male (gasp!) said the same thing. Her justification sounds to me like "whataboutism." It's often used, but should be avoided. Definition:
Whataboutism gives a clue to its meaning in its name. It is not merely the changing of a subject ("What about the economy?") to deflect away from an earlier subject as a political strategy; it’s essentially a reversal of accusation, arguing that an opponent is guilty of an offense just as egregious or worse than what the original party was accused of doing, however unconnected the offenses may be.
The tactic behind whataboutism has been around for a long time. Rhetoricians generally consider it to be a form of tu quoque, which means "you too" in Latin and involves charging your accuser with whatever it is you've just been accused of rather than refuting the truth of the accusation made against you. Tu quoque is considered to be a logical fallacy, because whether or not the original accuser is likewise guilty of an offense has no bearing on the truth value of the original accusation.
Don't you think we should be more upset with a president every time he lies to us - which is just about every day? Where is the outrage about that? Why aren't people in the streets demanding his resignation? Why do we tolerate dishonesty and get upset over a commonly used word - ugly as it is?
Tlaib said a "bad" word. Boo hoo.
But she spoke the truth with courage. Kudos.
We Democrats worry too much about being too progressive, too aggressive, too moderate, too main stream. But that is what we should be about! Who wants to be robots like the GOP, chanting the same drivel all the time?
We are all different and we reflect the wide range of diversity that is America. And we have a lot in common. We are going to take this country back - one election at a time and reverse the destructive direction of what used to be a party of emancipation, a big tent and across the aisle participation. The GOP is now closer to the philosophies of Saudi Arabia and Russia.
More like this, Rep. Tlaib. Be proud. Call him out. We have been timid too long!
5
.....and if any further proof were needed of this young Rep’s folly, in vulgarly shouting for impeachment, and Ms Goldberg’s unwise support of this folly, please read the piece by Leonhardt on the folly of pushing impeachment right this moment
Children want immediate satisfaction. The anti-Trump adults know that we need Mueller’s report and somber, fair Congressional hearing first before uttering the”I” word, at least while sober
2
Trump openly debases women, minorities, and the disabled. He admitted to sexual assault, he cozies up to dictators while insulting and alienating traditional allies, and he puts children in cages - just to name a few of his crimes.
But yeah, let's all lose our minds because a freshman congresswoman used a bad word at a private gathering.
2
Some of us had hoped that women would be more responsible than the men you referred to.
90
@oneonone Why is it incumbent upon women, in or out of politics, to adhere to a higher standard on the mere basis of their gender? This is just sexism, pure and simple.
30
@Greg
It was not my intent to suggest that women be held to a higher standard. Quite the opposite. If women jump into the pig pen with men, i still would vote for them. The only things that matters to me is policies.
4
Am I the only one that sees the absurdity in Greg's reaction to oneonone?
2
Because her choice of words was shocking (to most people), she put the spotlight, perhaps intentionally, on herself. Public commentary is now focused on Tlaib and the appropriateness of her language, and not on Donald Trump, HIS words, and HIS actions, which is what we should be talking about. Expletives are the recourse of people with limited vocabulary/imagination. They do not describe or persuade, and they do not move the conversation forward. Tlaib had an opportunity to make a point about Trump, but she wasted it by making the conversation about her.
1
@lucy ruiz Much has changed. The New Yorker magazine is now littered with the F word, indicating the new level of acceptance. I would imagine it is common in Republican caucus meetings and the Oval Office. What counts is how Rashida Tlaib votes as a Democratic member of the House of Representatives.
I applaud the new diversity in the House and hope it soon extends to the Senate and White House. But this Democrat was raised in a time when profanity was unacceptable, especially in public officials. Profanity represents laziness or inability to use precise language. I really don't care what officials say in private, but in public, let's preserve some dignity. Cheney is no role model.
2
Our kids need us to have the courage to face those that would destroy the future of life on this planet because of their own greed and fragile egos. Good for Rashida Tlaib for having the courage to run for office and speak up for her children. 45 is what she said he is and he should go to jail. That's what I'm telling my kids. What are you telling yours?
2
My principal complaint about Ms. Tlaib's comment is its singular banality. A well crafted insult is a thing of beauty. This low-quality gibe is the kind of thing that third graders in the 1950s ventured when they first summoned up the courage to curse. If this is the extent of the originality that Ms. Tlaib can summon, her career in Congress will thankfully be short and inglorious.
1
@Shivi sorry but my prior reply was not meant for you
@Shiv Many of Trump's "deplorables" are probably grudgingly fist-bumping Rashida Tlaib for her frankness --
"Telling it like it is." (Just like Trump.)
1
Allowing the Democratic party to become a mirror image of the GOP with anger and disrespect in place of rationality, as represented by the Mueller report, is hardly the way forward.
1
@Mark Heisler One could argue that, at some point, anger and disrespect are in fact rational responses. I don't know if you've forgotten, the current president is a crook and a self-admitted sexual predator. Am I allowed to be mad yet? Do you expect me to respect the current president after he has spent the last 2 years disrespecting everyone on the planet other than those who make up his political base?
Rashida Tlaib and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez have "played" the liberal/progressive journalism community. They sucker the media into creating headlines about them, while offering little substance.
You might not like this comparison, but think about it: Rashida Tlaib and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez have been mirror images of Donald Trump, with their headline-grabbing, Twitter-enhanced self-promotion.
Do you remember when Trump, at a NATO meeting, ahouldered aside other prime ministers, placing himself front and center for the official group photo? Tlaib and Ocasio-Cortez are repeatedly, and selfishly, doing the same thing to their House of Representatives "colleagues".
I think that's wrong. And I think media outlets are wrong to abet and fawningly promote such behavior.
1
Rashida Tlai did a lot of damage to the progressive democratic cause.
Ms Tlai needs to get a check on her ego and start being a part of the solution and not just another part of the problem.
4
just a little bit of locker room talk.....
Actually Tlaib was indeed wrong to use inflammatory and vulgar language. Just as Trump was wrong to say that "some illegal immigrants are rapists." Inflammatory language hss no legitimate place in politics.
Extremes of rhetoric make it more difficult for the opposing parties to negotiate, which is their job. We elected our Representatives to formulate and argue over policy not make outrageous statements that garner press coverage.
Tlaib is an extremist on the left like the many on the right who were once in the entourage of Trump. We need compromise. We need discussion of middle grounds. Not more gridlock and sanctimony that leads to paralysis and government shutdowns.
1
After all, it was a “Peoples Swearing In.”
If the people support Tlaub’s actions, then don’t question Trump’s.
1
Personally, I'm way more comfortable with a Congresswoman who uses obscene language than a President who is an obscene person. Tlaid wasn't addressing a first grade class. Her description of Trump is accurate and a lot more efficient than scouring the thesaurus for a word to describe something a vile as Trump.
4
It's not unusual to hear such words. They accurately express anger. The problem with a newly elected politician proudly reiterating such a conversation is that it gives the oppositional Republicans with their intellectually inferior following something to jump up and down and crow about. It is a distraction, and is used by faux-moralistic zealots to shame others into following the conservative path, since pretending to be righteous is, in some minds, keeping the boogieman away.
2
Not very classy or good etiquette nor a sign of intelligence.
Also not a positive for her new career starting out in DC.
This was her answer to her son? Shameful.
Poor representation of her religious affiliation too.
5
I disagree with Ms. Goldberg here. The problem isn't so much what Rep. Tlaib said, with which I agree. It is the fact that she will be labeled with this epithet for a good while, and perhaps permanently, thus affecting her public image as she runs again for office or for higher office. You just know the GOP will hold this over her head. Then, too, our political discourse should be as civil as possible, whether spoken by female or male. Cheney showed his true ignorance, incivility and unfitness for office when he cursed out Senator Leahy. He was an evil thug in V-P's clothing, and remains so. He paved the way for "Individual-- #1."
2
Fewer adolescents in government, not more.
(Apologies to adolescents for the rhetorical disparagement.)
2
Democrats would be wise to remember that Republicans are masters of leveraging incidents with poor optics to their great advantage. Yes, the reaction to Tlaib's foul language was overwrought, but to be sure, it will be put in the faces of tens of millions of Trump supporters hard and repeatedly during the 2020 campaign to caricature the opposition to Trump as hysterical and vulgar. It is not hard to imagine what the ads will look like, with ominous music playing and images of Tlaib cast in green/brown light, pixilated, and stretched diagonally.
Tlaib handed Republican's a weapon just as Hillary Clinton did when she characterized some Trump supporters as deplorable. I can't say I disagree with her sentiment, but Democrats need to not be stupid. They will lose if they try to do battle with Trump in his cesspool of vulgarity, character assassination, innuendo, and lies.
3
Well done, Michelle! Well done!
3
I'm one of her constituents and I'm furious. We elected her to be an effective representative and her comment undermines that. We don't want more rude, crude, lowest common denominator politicians. We want those who can elevate the discussion. Can you imagine Washington, Lincoln, JFK or MLK doing the same?
169
@Jay Cook
Not really. But I can sure imagine LBJ saying something similar.
16
@Jay Cook--Actually, JFK was a well-known swearer, as were LBJ, Nixon, George W. Bush and Truman. And, that's not even mentioning the members of congress familiar with a salty phrase. Politics is a dirty business.
9
@The Buddy However, he had the civility only to be crude as most of us are "off camera."
2
In terms of the civility of our national discourse Ms. Tlaib's words were most definitely "wrong." And when Michelle Goldberg evaluates a politician's words or actions on the basis of their skin color or identity politics, she gets it "wrong" as well. Michelle should try writing this article again imagining that John Cornyn or Mark Meadows directed this language toward Nancy Pelosi. I expect we'd get a very different narrative.
4
I don’t think the swearing was the issue, not for me anyway. My problem is that Rep Tlaib was talking about impeachment while Nancy Pelosi and others were trying to negotiate a plan to reopen the government and craft a legislative agenda. The new kids have to work alongside the old guard. Creating media distractions only works to keep things from happening rather than to get things done.
2
Rep. Tlaib's choice of words was not wrong in a moral sense, it was just spectacularly bad strategically. The Democrats are presenting themselves as the new adults in the room, who will take care of business, and restore a bit of civility. Even a single bit of profanity, no matter how well deserved, ruins the effort.
2
When you're elected by hundreds of thousands of people you're expected to lead. I don't think anyone begrudges the occasional foray into the gutter, just not in your very first week.
2
Rage begets rage and fighting fire with fire is a time honored tradition. I enjoyed this exchange and am not critical of Tlaib for venting. But I also like another saying - don't get angry, get even. I am cautiously hopeful that some justice may be on the horizon.
2
Not very classy, proper etiquette nor signs of intelligence.
Not only a poor 'choice' of words (to reply to her son, nonetheless), but not a good way to start out her career in DC.
Doesn't represent her religious affiliation very well either.
2
"Rashida Tlaib Said Nothing Wrong".
She has brought a discourse to a whole new level, common in some M. East cultures - where I, too, am from, therefore familiar with.
That culture in mind, indeed she "said nothing wrong".
1
This is just wrong. It smacks of the "I know you are but what am I" defense we used to hear in grade school. Trying to show the world that Democrats can be just as vulgar and uncontrolled as Trump will not defeat him or his authoritarian party. Hillary Clinton did not lose because she didn't swear enough, or wasn't genuine enough, or assertive enough. She lost because a great many Americans neither liked nor trusted her enough to vote for her. Tlaib's outburst will simply reinforce the belief of many that Democrats are not to be trusted with the serious business of governing. That is not true, but it will not matter in our "reality tv" world.
2
Very simply, two wrongs don't make a right.
We should expect a higher standard of decorum from our elected officials.
We're not in kindergarten where we should be saying "He did it, so why can't I?"
And most importantly, it takes away from the message.
If Michelle Goldberg wrote in The Times using language like that, she would be (rightly) disciplined or fired.
4
Rashida Tlaib said nothing wrong, as a private individual with no maturity, accountability or responsibility.
With a job that requires tact, maturity, and the ability to compromise, however, she did herself no favors. She's not alone, of course (Trump is in the same boat), but now she's part of the problem.
3
Thank you for this.
I certainly thought the reaction was way overblown by men unable or unwilling to pick on someone their own size... like Trump.
2
I find Talib's remark to be not only offensive but a real violation of the office, and on her very first day in office I might add. One has to question the judgment of a Congressional member, who immediately upon being charged with power, shows her teeth. It was an unvarnished moment displaying utter lack self-control or poise. Trump is correct, it is "disgraceful", and this coming from a man who has himself disgraced his own office. I also believe Congresswoman Tlaib isn't doing her Palestinian persuasion any favors, either. This moment doesn't go down well on all her fronts, and all she represents will suffer a bit of taint. She represents yet one more reason why I find myself taking one more step away from the Democratic left.
2
That word was an unnecessary distraction from the work at hand.
5
There should be one standard for discussion.
Politicians should be held to the same standards that I teach my children. That does not include obscenities in the verbal battlefields.
The same goes with the “wall”. Why cannot a Democrat be for the wall and a Republican be against it. Everyone, wants their own rues to prevail, not those of the society as a whole.
You don't have to like Trump to be critical of Tlaib's comment. It was unnecessarily profane and it clearly telegraphed her intent to get rid of Trump regardless of what he has or has not done. Her comments are more of a problem for Nancy Pelosi than for Donald Trump.
1
Doing something wrong is different from doing something foolish. She gave Trump a rare opportunity to appear more mature than his opposition. And it is highly questionable that impeachment is the wisest option the Democrats have to oppose this big bully-boy president. But behaving in the public forum in ways very similar to Trump detracts from the high road Democrats can take to their advantage.
1
I disagree. An elected official should act as a role model in public, whether male or female. Swearing behind closed doors is fine. What I'm taking away from the incident is that this member of Congress grew up with "gangsta" rap and thinks it's normal for people to use profane epithets at one another. That shows a kind of sheltered background, although it's a different kind of sheltered background from Trump's. We need people in Congress who understand America and Americans, and the majority of Americans do not approve of gangsta rap behavior and that's a fact.
1
The beginning of wisdom is to call a thing by its proper name. We must not be so bound by ideas of polite discourse that we fail to use the correct words to describe people and ideas. My neighbor, Rashida Tlaib, accurately described Trump, using vernacular that was accurate and precise in its' meaning. She could have added "lying" but that would have generated a whole other discussion among the hand wringers about whether his constant lies are really lies or just untruths. Really people, wake up to the reality of this man.
MIchelle, defending everything the Dems do is not right either. She used foul language, and for a public figure, in the public eye, that's a big no no. Are you saying, because the Repubs do it, it's OKay. Do we sink to their level?
And, as bad as the profanity was, she said this to her child. Is that the talk she should be using to her son. There are people who talk like that, but confine it to home, to family and friends, if that's the speech enjoyed. Don't bring it to the public square, even if the Repubs do it!!
1
No, she was wrong. And so is Donald Trump for using rotten language. I voted for Trump, even though I (and thousands--millions?--of others also) fully agree that his speech leaves MUCH to be desired.
But I do not excuse Trump bombast (except when he hits out at the media for always focusing on the negative, since they never gave him a single day of a "honeymoon," but piled on mercilessly since his election). I largely support his political positions (not necessarily the wall, but certainly some far better way to deal with ILLEGAL immigrants), but I do not give him a pass (nor did I give Cheney one) for their hateful language.
Why is that the whole "when they go low, we go high" gets Democratic applause, when, apparently, it is not really something Democrats believe? Tliab DID say something wrong. First, it was the use of about the worst word we have in American English. Second, it was about a PERSON--love him or hate him, Donald Trump is a human, and, who knows, he may even have a few good qualities (I know, inconceivable, right)
What Tliab did was lose the ability to speak into the lives and hearts of conservatives. What the media and Democrats don't seem to grasp (nor Republicans, for that matter) is that if you speak to Trump or Republicans with respect, they can "hear" you. But when it is filled with ugliness, all their defenses go up, and the Tliab's of the country are listened to only so we can find a pause in which to reply.
1
Right. Trump can do no wrong. Democrats can do no right--even when they do a minuscule fraction of the same things that Republicans are excused for. Got it. Hypocrisy reigns supreme in Republican MAGA-head land.
3
If Ms. Goldberg truly believes use of the word is OK, as opposed to the questionable “but Trump’s just as bad” argument, why didn’t she use it in her piece?
1
Michelle,
I agree with her, but using language like that lowers us to his level, his gutter-talk.
Now instead of what they need to accomplish, the news cycle will chew on this ad infinitum, ad nauseum, feigning shock and crudeness.
Like her leader Nancy said, let Mueller proceed, then act.
1
Western democracies are the most minority-tolerant, freest, wealthiest, most pro-women, most opportunity-laden states ever created. You and Traister should keep that in mind -- or, better, learn non-Western history -- when going on about the evils and shortcomings of our white-supremacist patriarchy in which you're both unfortunate enough to live. I'm not a great fan of Sam Harris, but when Traister upbraids him for using the term mob to describe overzealous members of the #MeToo movement, this is absurd. Just because a mob has good intentions doesn't make it any less a mob or any less frightening.
Progressives, so called, seem to think that those who disagree with them are either evil or dumb -- or both -- and that all the people on their side are faultless.
The GOP is beholden to coarse infotainers. Would you like a similar version of populism to take over the Democrat Party? There is no good version of populism, despite the daydreams of reformicons and leftists. To represent the people doesn't mean you have to speak like them, to debase discourse. Congresspeople are suppose to be leaders and example-setters. That's especially important in a putrid culture like ours.
Just because something is bad -- like, in your eyes, our society -- doesn't mean that what will come after it won't be worse. The way things are headed, it will be. Most progressives seem more certain that they are right than most Republicans; and certainty can breed fanaticism, which is seldom helpful.
This is one of the most poorly reasoned (and largely vacuous) pieces I have read in the NYT in a long while. (Maybe since editorial space was given to Rush LImbaugh.)
Tu quoque fallacies don't excuse language which is debasing and devaluing our civic culture and neither does she get a pass because of the non-argument claims about being a woman.
I voted for George McGovern in my first election and never vote for Republican candidates. But this new office holder does nothing to help her party or the image of her already problematic religion which treats woman as worth a fraction of me.
3
No, her language was coarse and crude... just like Trump.
She is simply being the female version of Trump by behaving that way and, therefore, should receive all the opprobrium she deserves.
3
Far from doing something wrong, what Tlaib did was important. It was important that she assert the right of women to use the same language used by men in similar circumstances. If women are going to compete and collaborate with men in governance, they must not tie one hand behind their backs.
It was also important that impeachment be discussed openly rather than soto voce as we know both Republicans and Democrats in Washington (and everyone else in the country) do. It's on the table now, and put there in a way that makes it unavoidable.
As far as the term "mother..." is concerned, let's acknowledge that it, like so many of our cultural artifacts (good and bad), comes from the black community. That, I think, is part of the reason they are so offended by it.
But the main reason they are offended is that it was spoken by a woman. So all I can say is 'go head on, sister...'
3
So how old is her son that she said this to? Also putting someone in the same group as Donald Trump, Dick Cheney, and Keyne is no compliment. AOC is much more articulate and will do a better job advancing a progressive agenda
1
I agree completely with her characterization of Trump. I've said as much myself. I don't mind at all that she said it. I was entertained by it.
That being said, however, we all know that if a Republican Congressman had been filmed saying the same about HRC or Elizabeth Warren, we'd be expressing self-righteous outrage.
To pretend otherwise is silly.
Ms. Tlaib used a profanity in an informal setting. She was recorded. Mr. Trump uses profanities in presidential occasions towards his constituents.
The other part of the issues is that he is a white male using locker room talk is she is a Mother/Madonna.
I'm fine with anything as long as we get children out of concentration camps.
4
Ms. Tlaib should not be criticized for stating an obvious truth. The epithet used is remarkably common in modern male discourse, and is far from accurately depicting the full extent of Donald Trump's moral viciousness and unfitness for the office he holds. Males of my acquaintance have called Trump far worse, and rightly so.
1
Tlaib already stepped in it again with the Israel tweet. I've never met her- lost likely she's just over anxious to do something and needs to slow down.
I can say most newly elected House Reps start off with zest and enthusiasm then slowly the spirit gets chipped away by the DC bureaucracy.
It's a classic tortoise and hare story .. Just ask Mitch McConnell :)
Can’t believe the title of this OpEd. Yes, she did say something wrong. If this is all the progressive wing of the Democratic Party has to offer, then forget it. Outrage isn’t enough. We all have that. TIme to grow up and get something done. That’s why you were elected. The outrage is the easy part.
1
Impeachment isn't possible now, anyway; her brief time in the spotlight proves her to be vulgar and thoughtless.
2
Trump is a disgrace on so many levels I would use up 1500 characters allotted to enumerate them. But Democrats have to establish themselves as the reasoned opposition. What goes without saying about Trump’s character is better off left unsaid; what has to be articulated are policies and truths that Democrats believe in and seek to achieve for the betterment of America.
1
We are talking about the office of the President of the United States, not the person Donald J. Trump. The disrespect for the office is what made Ms. Tlaib's word choice not just dumb but reprehensible, in fact. And we are to address members of Congress as "The Honorable" So-and-So? The coarsening of our discourse is directly linked to the coarsening of our culture, as demonstrated by the hideous language and actions of our current President, the most dishonorable holder of the office in the history of our country. But the point here is Congresswoman Tlaib's word choice. The President has done an exemplary job of tarnishing and diminishing our sacred institutions of democracy. Is this now the new normal? Show me an iron fist in a velvet glove!
100
@MEH
Two issues: First, impeaching the current occupant of the office is about removing the the occupant, who demeans the office, from the office, which is deserving of respect. Second, I believe those words were spoken not on the House floor (like Cheney) and not in conference with Congressional representatives (like trump) but on her own time at an entirely unofficial party with her own supporters and friends. Does anyone believe they are not spoken frequently in environments like that by decent, thinking people?
30
@MEH I've got nothing against civil discourse but I don't think the honorable congresswoman was talking about the office of the president. I think she was talking about Donald J. Trump.
29
@MEH Oh please. Office of the President. As if that hasn't been the dumping ground for society's sewage for decades. Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, Bush II and now Trump. Dignity of the office? No one is gonna accept that.
8
This is one of the worst columns Ms. Goldberg has ever written. Among its many faults is that it fatuously misses the point: Tlaib's little tantrum immeasurably helped President Trump.
The two Ms., Tlaib and Goldberg: Dumb and Dumber.
4
You are so right. At first, I cringed, not because of the language, but worrying that the Dems were yet again off on their favorite path to self destruction. Sometime AOC provokes in me the same concern. But reading your piece has convinced me otherwise. Kudos to Rashida Tlaib!
95
who cares what politicians on both sides say - it's what they do that i consider important.
we're circling the drain and people are freaking out about the color of the sink.
3
@pierre Absolutely. It's how she votes that will count.
I'm sure many a voter is supressing a smile about all this outrage over a common expression in much of America.
1
“Swearing is an art form. You can express yourself much more exactly, much more succinctly, with properly used curse words.” Coleman Young
83
@KenF
Yes, Colman Young, on of the most divisive politicians ever. He was great at alienating people that could have helped him.
6
@KenF Mayor Young could barely get through a news conference with a couple of MFers. Corrupt as hell but what a politician.
2
@KenF
But you're still cursing, Coleman Young, even though it might hit the mark, for the moment. By swearing, you are putting a curse on another person. Who needs all that bad karma swirling around one's head and life?
I thought this young woman would bring a principled change . . . but no, she thinks her potty-mouth is cute. She degrades her culture and her people.
2
Sorry Ms Goldberg, but what Rashida Tlaib said was wrong. There's no arguing that, no excuses. That political discourse has lost all civility, intelligence, dignity, respect and empathy doesn't give progressives permission to do the same. Let's not join a race to the bottom, shall we? We must be better than that or else all hope is lost
200
Sorry, Mari, but your post is all wrong.
Swearing has been part of the political process ever since the political process began with the founding fathers. So, according to you, everyone should be nice and polite and courteous and full of the wit and wisdom of Miss Manners.
Was Abraham Lincoln nice and courteous when he lobbied his fellow Republicans and opposition Democrats to pass the Emancipation Proclamation?
Was Franklin Roosevelt nice and courteous when he had to thwart Republican opposition to the New Deal that helped get the country out of the Great Depression?
Was his cousin, Theodore Roosevelt, nice and courteous when he battled to save our national parks and the multi millionaires whose trusts were breaking the backs of working class Americans?
I refer you to the old saying that you don't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs. In that vein, you don't get to create meaningful policy and get rid of a cancer on our country by not swearing.
28
@Mari
Hear hear, well said
15
So civility over substance? Wrong.
23
No, she did say something wrong. The use of profanity/vulgarity in political speech is wrong, whether Trump does it, Cheney does it or Democrats do it. Two wrongs simply do not a right and the fact of the matter is people would be better off taking the high ground and using strong language that isn't profane. It isn't that hard to choose better words. The inability to do so suggests the speaker--or speakers--are inarticulate to a degree we shouldn't expect from political leaders. And none of that is about the gender, party affiliation or ethnicity of the speaker.
8
@Frederic, did you write posts like this when cheney and trump used foul language?
Words are vibrations in the air that we choose to assign values to.
Many never learned the schoolyard defense of "Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me."
Many centuries ago, the Buddha gave essentially the same advice: It is we who choose to give power to words and things.
Apparently millions of American failed to learn either.
1
Dems need to be careful. Much of their success at the midterms was due to the Rep women who were turned off by trump’s behavior and rhetoric. Using the same tactics and language could cause a backlash.
Aside from that, I believe that members of the gov should have a certain decorum and behavior befitting the office. We WANT our president to be presidential and members of Congress to be a cut above. What they say in private is one thing, their public face another. Lowering themselves to trump’s level demeans their office and the Constitution.
9
Such progress! Now we've established a new tone and norm for public discourse. I guess years of listening to rap have had its effect on our society. Welcome to the future - exciting times!
9
In a nutshell, there should never be different rules for men and women, but there are, obviously. Women holding office just need to be aware of that fact (until it changes) and then choose to do whatever they want to do, understanding the consequences of their choices.
Republicans, on the other hand, need to deal with their constant hypocrisies ...
1
It's discouraging that so many readers do not recognize the FUNDAMENTAL difference between behavioral standards for elected public officials and those for private citizens. There are also significant differences in standards for what politicians do in private and for their public behavior. Likewise, there are differences in standards for one-way public addresses, as here, versus interactions between individuals. Most people understand these differences intuitively. But many commenters here seem to allow political partisanship to obscure this - and probably justify to themselves any ambiguity in priniples using flawed, 'two wrongs are better than one' logic. The selective application of moral standards is wrong, period.
7
She chose the BEST word (get it?) because her message was repeated and amplified by the press and, ironically, by Republicans.
3
Yelling 4 letter words at each other never solves anything. Unfortunately, the noise level is rising on both side, with Democrats slightly more restraint than Trump. Also, many times the press / TV coverage conflate what is being said by politicians in order to whip up their base vs. what is being said trying to address the other party. The result is the same: A slow but persistent fraying of social norms.
2
Regardless of whether or not Trump is fit for office or deserves to be impeached—the language that was used only helps Trump and adds justification to his base. The fact is: had someone said this about Obama there would be moral outrage among progressives. This is the same as Trump’s base saying suddenly expressing outrage at the language used.
How about this: we should be outraged by offensive, uncivil remarks that reflect poorly upon our government and our country and that which sets a bad example for our children.
6
This whole thing is way more simple than any lengthy explanations.
When the Republicans do it, use bad language or blow up the deficit for example, it’s explained away. When Democrats do it, it is vilified and magnified to any degree. Their followers can’t/don’t want to see it . It works most times so keep doing it.
3
It's wonderful that the role of member of Congress is expanding to include a diverse spectrum of elected officials. That doesn't mean, however, that these new symbols of diversity shouldn't conduct themselves with dignity and decorum. Comments like Ms. Tlaib's only set back the progress those who aren't white males from Ivy League schools are making and make it harder for the next person to win the office. Ms. Tlaib's success has quickly gone to her head and affected her judgment, and sadly, the Democratic party will pay a price for that. And no, the fact that Trump gets away with it doesn't give her a pass. It just means she has stooped to his level.
4
I think what she said was wrong, but people who condone this sort of thing coming from a different source (for example, Trump supporters) have forfeited their standing to complain.
I would prefer that our public discourse be less vulgar, that's all.
4
As a middle school teacher, working in a poor community, I repeatedly tell my students on a daily basis, Words Matter! This Congresswoman is a symbol. She better start acting like a better role model or she will quickly lose the respect her new found position affords her and she will quickly become marginalized. This goes for Beto, too. I don't understand why we get one POTUS, who acts uncivilly, and all of the sudden, other people begin to emulate unprofessional and crude behaviours.
8
Thanks for the article, which makes a subtle, yet substantial, distinction between words, by themselves, and ideas and actions behind the words. Beyond that, it's not hard to predict more of the same kinds of critiques, as the culture--conservative media outlets being just one organ of the culture-- rises up to impugn the voices of "others," who are finally making a long-awaited appearance in our politics. We are, indeed, correct to ask: what other knuckeheaded responses are in store for our newly elected, and aggressive, representatives?
2
When Democrats are “nice”, they lose. Republicans who are clutching their pearls are the same people who gerrymander the vote, suppress minority votes, hold up a Supreme Court nomination, enact a tax scam on behalf of the super rich and lie to advance their interests.
These are the same Republicans who stole the 1968 election with traitorous actions with the Vietnam Government, stole the 1980 election by negotiating with the religious rulers of Iran, stole the 2000 election at the Supreme Court, and used Russian help to win the 2016 election.
And pundits are worried how a new Member of Congress describes the worst President in U.S. history? We need new and better informed pundits.
1
@Pat Choate...You forgot to mention how the Republicans stole the 1952 election by making a deal with Mao to end the Korean War. If you're going to go revisionist, go all the way. Stop being so doggone nice.
Michelle. The issue is not the use of curses. Senior Democratic leaders have urged their members to go softly on impeachment, given their fear that it may energize the Trump base, much like the feared Kavanagh effect in the midterms. Whether that is the right approach remains controversial, and we certainly dont want our party leaders issuing talking points. On the other hand, many Democrats have decided that emphasizing the full program of the
Democrats (healthcare, minimum wage, Dreamers) is a prudent path, often they say we need to wait for Muller before deciding on impeachment. Plain speech from politicians is refreshing, but one might conclude that Tlaib is more interested in venting than reclaiming the Senate. In this case loose lips may alter 2020 voting turnout.
2
What does that word mean anyway? I've used it plenty of times myself, but never in front of a camera. I don't think I've ever meant it literally, but I doubt that the Congress member meant to use the word literally either. Since we don't know what the word really means, and Congress isn't busy at the moment, maybe the House Education Committee (if there is one) could hold a few days of hearings on the use of the word amongst American adults. Then we would have a better sense of what the word means and maybe we'd know if the Congress member used the word properly.
@Bruce...To what word are you referring? If Congress is going to investigate a word, it needs to know which specific word is to be investigated. It would be tragic if they invested a great deal of resources in the investigation of the wrong word. So, please spell it out, Bruce.
Profanity is easy. I prefer the kind of coldly calculating, crystal clear low-profile, take-no-prisoners strategizing and planning that the rightwing billionaires (including our favorites, the Koch brothers) employed decades ago and which today has borne an amazing harvest of political influence at both federal and state levels of government. That’s how long-term victories are won. If I ever start to hear Democrats even hinting at that, I’ll know we’ll get a better future someday.
2
@Gerald...Yer in dire need of hearing aids, Gerald. Just because Dumocrat Fat Cats are incompetent, doesn't mean they haven't been trying.
There's a vast delta between what one can do and what one should do. Yes, Tlaib was well within her rights to call Trump that and even to call for his impeachment. However saying those things will bring him no closer to impeachment and in fact distracts from very real issues. There's a reason Robert Mueller isn't wasting his breath on tirades.
All Tlaib is doing is showing that she can stoop to Trump's level. As a Democrat, that concerns me. Whether it's false flag operations in Alabama or nonsense like this, I hope Democrats don't stoop to being an equal and opposite reaction to Trump. Some of us want decent, calm adults to be in power not a bunch of manic partisans spouting obscenities.
3
@JP...Y'all say she stooped. Us say she stretched way up on her tippy toes. Words matter, huh?
I came to this column inclined to disagree but agree strongly with at least one sentence: "It's Trump's foul actions and ideas that make him a walking obscenity."
1
Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan said that... "The top used to inform the bottom. Now the bottom informs the top." What he probably never envisioned was the bottom holding office. And this comes at a time when the Dems need to prove that they're better than the Repubs... and that can lead not just the bottom but all Americans.
2
"I was tempted to ignore it."
Learn to trust your instincts.
That's especially true in the area of old, old news that no one cared about in the first place.
3
I find Ms. Tlaib's profanity less offensive than when Representative Joe Wilson had the audacity to shout out that the President was a liar in an address to congress. While I won't argue the accuracy of either the President's or Mr. Wilson's statements, this is simply something that should never happen on the floor of congress. It made barely a ripple in the media and shows again how women and people of color are treated differently by the media and society in general.
2
@PNW Melanie I can laugh off Rashida Tlaib's exuberant
language in a casual setting. But I will never forget Joe Wilson's tawdry "You Lie!" in front of an assemblage of governing officials and their family members.
1
Rashida Talib was wrong to use the profanity because that is what the media and the GOP focused upon, thereby completely deflating the real message that many Americans in this election believe the necessary crimes have been committed by the POTUS to require impeachment. However, the choice of tasteless profanity obscured the message. The Democrats would do well to not give the GOP a purchase from which to justify their already warped reality.
3
No. Using profanity isn't empowering, it is degrading. No one gets to degrade another and get celebrated because others do it. It should be condemned, not just celebrated through equivocation. Maybe this isn't a feminist issue, but rather a higher expectation issue.
6
It's the old double-standard. For Trump it's "locker room talk." For women it's "lock her up talk." Of coarse (misspelling intended), it's the non-P.C. or "polluted conversation" that Donald Trump has brought to America. And, with one of the fiery, young women entering Congress saying what most Americans are thinking, it's a reminder that we've entered the final act in the Trump tragedy. For "winter is here" along with the heroic women who will rescue America.
2
@Paul Wortman...Of coarse [sic], Trump didn't bring your so-called polluted conversation to America. It's been around as long as humans have been around. And, the old double-standard? Don't be such a genderist. Potty mouth is hormone blind.
Whatever happened to "when they go low we go high"? Civility is surely something we should not only expect but demand from elected officials.
22
@Paul
I also expect (especially) elected officials to NOT break the law. I expect to hold them all accountable. I expect people to go to jail. (they already have)
Salty language or not, we are going to follow the law, wherever it may lead.
2
@Paul
I also expect (especially) elected officials to NOT break the law. I expect to hold them all accountable. I expect people to go to jail. (they already have)
Salty language or not, we are going to follow the law, wherever it may lead !
1
She was not in a public forum but at a private party.
1
It's interesting that "Comments are moderated for civility" is noted clearly near the comment box. Looks like our politicians don't have the same guidelines. Say what you want behind closed doors, but when in public, I would hope to expect better from someone trying to influence opinion.
23
Right on, Ms. Goldberg. I personally find the content of Rep. Tliab's comment far outweighs any issues I might (but don't) have with its wording. But going forward, let's see if we can give the Republicans fewer pinatas to beat on as we continue to forcefully state our well-founded positions.
11
Why not give them a childs Party toy? They are already blindfolded and have no sense of direction. Swinging a weapon hoping to find candy rewards sounds like a mind strengthening activity for such a group.
2
As always, an honest and insightful column from Michelle Goldberg. And I especially liked the description of Trump as a "walking obscenity." I have often tried to find the right words to describe Trump in an economical way, and always come up with at least four or five words too many that nevertheless don't adequately cover how awful he is. "Walking obscenity" is good, particularly when you keep in mind the application of "obscenity" not only in the sense of his language, but in the more general sense of his essential, overall vileness.
19
Please Ms. Goldberg, get an objective grip on matters. Tlaib’s obscene comment is not justified by Trump’s equally vile comments. Such talk only adds to the irrationality that pervades our political system. Your commitment to women should have some sensible boundaries. The fact that Tlaib is female does not give her a dispensation from behaving and speaking civilly.
24
I think the really interesting thing about a newly elected representative using this once shocking compound construction, to describe the President of the US is that so many people agree with her, even if they are glad they’re not the ones who said it.
8
Gender is not the reason for the media attention. It would be outrageous no matter who said it, even Trump.
19
There was a lot wrong with what Representative Tlaib sad.
(1) She was pronouncing when she should have been learning about Congress and the Democratic caucus. Does she understand that the Special Prosecutor has not finished or revealed his findings? Does she understand that precedent shows us how foolhardy a push for impeachment can be? It was an intemperate statement from someone who had been on the job a bit longer than 10 minutes.
(2) Irrespective of political considerations, has she added to the coarsening of the culture? Many of us think yes. Should this just be another part of the us versus them tribal battle in our country? Michelle Goldberg apparently thinks yes. I think not. Let's separate these issues.
20
Rashida Tlaib "said nothing wrong" if her objective was to focus attention on her language. If, on the other hand, her objective was to focus attention on the clear and present danger that Donald Trump represents to the Republic and on the program she and her colleagues hope to advance on behalf of working Americans, then what she said was a tactical error. I may add that the President's willingness to sacrifice the dignity of his office is no reason for the opposition to sacrifice the dignity of theirs.
264
@History Professor
Well stated H Prof! Righteous anger is appropriate. Stooping to Trump's level is not.
11
@History Professor
Thanks. This is so much better than Ms. Goldberg's take on this.
13
@History Professor Beautifully said, thank you. Words matter, and while I despise Trump and all he stands for, we don't need to wallow in the gutter with him.
11
Michelle, I am with you all the way, but ... one item.
It will be safe to assume that while you may disagree with Israel's leadership and philosophy, you don't want to see it dismantled, all Jews sent back to Europe "were they belong" or vaporized, right?
No matter what you or anybody else would say, Rashida and all those on the Palestinian side, do harbor that intention.
Make no mistake: study Islam, Google "taqiyyah" and "kitman", and lidsten to their declarations.
Given sufficient time and additional Muslim Congress members, YOU will also fall under their special classification. And not because I say so. Be careful what you wish for...
I say this with utmost respect, modesty and consideration. There's a wise book out there"Everybody Lies". We should be cautious.
Not always, in reality most of the time the enemy of our enemy is not necessarily our friend.
Rashida's main agenda is not His impeachment. Check it out in depth
11
@Dontbelieveit By saying "all those on the Palestinian side" I would like to believe that you're not making an assumption based upon ethnicity or religion.
I suspect that Christians have been responsible for more persecution of Jews than Arabs. Are you concerned about Christians taking over our government?
3
@Justin I am concerned about Christians (like Pence) taking over our government. Prayers are meaningless in governance. Votes are what count.
2
No one really cares about Ms. Tlaib's choice of words about the President, least of all the President. What's more important are her words about Jews. That's what the author of this column should really be addressing and analyzing.
19
@rpe123
What "words about Jews" are you referring to?
Perhaps, her praise for her political mentor, a son of Jewish Holocaust survivors.
I like the neologism "to Cheney oneself". Its strategic placement at the end of the article will lever future usage. Alas, America has been "Trumped" up the ole' wazoo. Swear words jolt when unexpected. The quicker people realize who Donald is, the quicker will be his removal.
6
I disagree with all the apologists here. The only way we improve public discourse is by holding our public officials to a higher standard. Condoning the descent into sleaze, name-calling and swearing is exactly the wrong thing to do, as is accelerating it by indulging in such behavior. Of course this starts with holding ourselves to that same standard... so, all you apologists, are you really just looking to give yourself a pass for your own unacceptable behavior? Maybe instead you should all just grow up.
11
I suppose an honest politician who lowers public discourse is better than a corrupt politician who never swears.
6
Everyone should stop using disgusting language, men and women. The more it’s used , the more normalized it becomes. Our society is becoming below base level, from the way people dress to their behavior, to the language they use. Let’s bring up the level of decency. JB
10
It´s true, there´s no denying that the new face of American political power makes a lot of people uncomfortable. The new face is well within my comfort zone. What makes me uncomfortable is that Rashida Tlaib, like a great many people in what passes in America for the Left, wants Mike Pence to be president.
3
Donald Trump is like a tumor that needs to be surgically removed from the American body politic. However, we all know that this will be a complex and dangerous job, since the tumor has deep roots, and touches many of the nation’s vital organs.
The political surgeon may be driven by a deep anger and disgust, emotions that are deeply felt and shared by the tumor’s victim, but to be successful the surgeon must be self-controlled.
To be fair, though, controlled emotions must also be expressed outside of the time and place where they have to be controlled. Anger and disgust are a healthy response to America’s political tumor, even though I’d like to see the new Representatives working more and emoting less.
1
Since the comment about Trump she has been cited as making antisemitic comments as well. That's real profanity.
8
It’s Trump’s foul actions and ideas, not his swearing, that make him a walking obscenity.
Spot on...
4
Mrs. Goldberg:
I'm very surprised with your comments (big fan of your column by the way). Defending such behavior completely miss the most important point: Rashida Tlaid was not elected to exchange profanities with our President. She was elected to represent her voters -- sinking to the worst level possible does not help her cause.
13
Very well stated Michelle.
3
Your distinction between violent behavoir and cuse words is an apt one. Please explain, however, the arugment borrowed from Mrs. Traister’s book. Generalizations, on their face, are flawed. Those on language sound farcical. Anyone who thinks that only girls are discouraged from using curse words never met my father. Yes, his form of discouragement is anecdotal; however, others, I’m sure, can attest to similiar experiences. What he taught did more than make me aware of words which would draw his wrath. He helped me navigate the world. He made me aware that your audience does matter. If I were to rely on curse words in the classroom, my students and my collegues would rightly deem it unprofessional. They would focus on the profanity and not on the ideas. Why should we expect less from those who represent us. Of course, I am leaving individual 1 or Cheney out this arugment because comparing ourselves to some of the worst examples degrades us all. Cursing definitely has its place like all language. Curb’s Susie Essman comes to mind; she knows the when, where, how. We need, however, to recognize places where profanity or a profanity is not welcome. You know like the oval office.
4
@Tom Excellent, Tom. I also taught, but mainly young junkies in a drug-free program. I prohibited the use of obscenities because they used those words as adjectives, adverbs, nouns, verbs and any other form of grammar. I told them the same thing, that obscenities prevent them from thinking about verbalizing feelings, ideas, and deeper meanings to their sentences. They thought about that, and most did agree.
It's not acceptable for a public person to use obscenities. And, to descend to Trump's level only makes us all the poorer.
Ms. Goldberg fails to acknowledge the criticism of Ms. Tlaib's foul language is not confined to Trump supporters. I'm 64 and have been a liberal democrat all my life. I expect Ms. Tlaib's positions on nearly all issues facing the country align with mine. Nevertheless, Ms. Tlaib's vulgarity cannot be excused by deflection nor by the foul nature of the target of her outrage. This language has no place in public discourse. Ms. Tlaib's use of obscene comment and Ms. Goldberg's dismissal of all those who found it offensive is childish. If we agree it is no longer necessary to act like adults, Trump wins.
15
Two words that shouldn't be in the same sentence: Dennis Miller and comedian. Unless, of course, the words "is not" are somewhere in between. I haven't heard any conservative "comedy" that's funny; usually it's just mean.
5
If you swear at Trump, he gets to elevate his view of himself (his only POV) and retort with "disgraceful. Tsk, tsk." Swear at the TV, then strategize. You don't have to be as cool as Justice Ginsburg, who said, "All we ask of our brethren is that he take his foot off our necks." But, when Trump patronized Speaker Nancy Pelosi, she became a hero when she replied, "Don't catagorize me, Mr. President." When someone gets you to lose your cool, they win. Ms. Tlaib was smart enough to get elected, she should do well in Congress.
2
Just remember that for every "angry woman "voted into office there are thousands of angry voters who put her there.
9
My wife and her mother both curse like sailors when chatting together. I've never heard my mom utter a four letter word in her life. Every family is different. There's always a variety norms for acceptable edgy behavior.
4
I'm tired of hearing that word, or the second half of it, sprinkled casually into public conversations wherever I go. For many people, the strongest word in the English language has become little more than a punctuation mark. They use it 2 or 3 times in a single sentence, with families and little old ladies standing within earshot. I've even heard mothers calling their little boys [what Tlaib said], oblivious to what that actually says about them.
Whenever I hear that word used publicly, it lowers my opinion of the speaker. Including Tlaib.
12
Diminish, belittle, insult and stereotype. In times of war that is the role of propaganda, which as we all know serves to make it very easy to see and feel the "enemy" as sub-human. Has anybody noticed that this is the what the Republican party has substituted for ideas and thinking. Enough said.
2
But can she govern?
2
@mijosc Exactly. It's how she votes that will count. I'm betting she will vote for policies, rules annd regulations that help we the people, the 99%.
1
That reminds me of how Trump/Republicans endorsed Roy Moore and other such beauties whilst Democrats stupidly pushed out Al Franken...for how long will people let themselves be manoeuvred by the Machiavellian tricks of the rotten GOP?
12
She didn’t say it on the floor of Congress, or in the Oval Office, she said it at a party. She accurately described the immoral narcissist currently working 3-hour days in the White House.
9
Consider me conventional and politically correct, I think she was wrong and, as an elected person, should not use such language. Her role is to inspire people, not to go as low as many other people.
18
Thanks Michelle, for shining light on another double standard that women have to endure. It's crucial to speak up about these subtle ways that women are forced into 'staying in line.'
8
People seem to ignore that Rep. Tlaib not only used the profanity to an audience, but to children. There isn't much protection left for childhood innocence it seems, but boorish, low class behavior by adults -- especially by those who are expected to be role models for young Americans and who know better -- is inexcusable and damaging to the norms and fabric of our society.
Fred Rogers knew better.
18
When speaking , Democrats needs to ask themselves , “ how would Obama handle this?” In other words, go high , not low.
Though, what was said pales in comparison to trump’s daily behavior.
10
While I agree with her description of the man, I also think that a member of Congress should be able to find lots of words that adequately describe the odious nature of the man occupying the Oval office without resorting to gutter talk.
We can do better
17
Senator Clinton lost to Trump probably because of her use of the ad hominem "deplorables" to describe Trump supporters. Cheney and Trump are reviled by the majority of the country for being bullies who use vulgarities. It appears Ms. Goldberg has she decided to defend a losing strategy in the name of equality. Thankfully, the majority is still revolted by uncivil discourse regardless of the source.
5
Republicans and Trump have zero credibility and standing when it comes to the morality, language and actions of Dem and Prog congresspeople.
And the media needs to stop dwelling on petty things like this and obsessing over female candidates' "likability."--which borders on useless biased gossip that conveniently (for Rep.) detracts voters from the important things.
5
Let me see whether I've got this straight. The US pumped more carbon dioxide into the atmosphere in 2018 than ever before. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change warned that we are on track toward massive damage from global warming. Over two hundred people have died in Border Patrol custody over the past two years. Eight hundred thousand federal workers and either furloughed and unpaid or working without pay. Government services affecting millions of people are without money or soon to run out. Our president is under investigation for multiple crimes and is already an unindicted co-conspirator in campaign finance violations. And what gets the right-wingers all exercised is the ephemeral use by a young woman of a word you can hear in music and on TV every day?
8
The language was obscene. The reaction was mixed.
3
Those who are upset that Tlaib used an obscenity in reference to Trump are missing the point. Of course we expect more polite language, and of course it was jarring to hear it! But to continue to act and speak with decorum while Trump and the GOP do obscene and evil things is itself inappropriate. We should be reacting to atrocious policies and goals with outrage befitting it. I for one am tired of Trump and his enablers preying on others with apparent impunity. If the voters and politicians who support Trump aren't bothered by (or applaud) his language, they have no room to complain when the same words are used against him. Save your outrage for bad actions.
6
I suspect a lot if these comments supposedly by Democrats are actually from the right as well as the recommendations. This opinion piece should haven't even been written. I am sick of being held to a higher standard while the republicans literally destroy the country.
The entire Al Franklin thing which Ms. Goldberg supported did nothing but the Democrats shooting themselves in the foot, again. Me. Gilibrand is nothing but a opportunist and a Democrat in name only.
5
'Go Cheney themselves'.
Hey!!!, I like that.
Another one I like is 'female canine' instead of the actual, way overused word, these days.
But isn't it funny (or not) the people who complain the most are men and women who are actually the ones who do openly swear?
And who dictates the rules that say a woman has to tow the lines while guys don't.
That ship has passed so long ago it has probably sunk to the bottom of the sea by now.
Geez...
1
It would seem that critical a role for a congressional representative might be to effectively represent your district by developing/supporting policies to improve their well being. In order to do this one would need to influence/lead other members of congress in support of your policies. To me, the vulgarity used by Tlaib and the premature call for impeachment (as noted by Jerry Nadler) fails on both counts. I would expect a greater degree of maturity, intelligence, and strategic thinking from a congressional representative. Tlaib’s actions only distract from the important objectives that congress needs to pursue in 2019 and beyond. Pelosi and other influential leaders might need to provide more mentoring/guidance so that some representatives don’t detract from Democrat's policies/objectives. Tlaib would be well advised to consider Michelle Obama’s advice “when they go low we go high”.
9
@Greg Tx for comment , Greg. You are consistent in your good comments.
She has willingly entered the race to the lowest level of political discourse. No amount of "Yes, but...." can justify her joining Trump's genre of vulgarity.
9
What language is right and what language is wrong? Everybody and their pets have an opinion on that. I know what language is always wrong and it's the rhetoric of lies that this president and his administration spew out every day. The worst of the bombast comes on twitter daily.
1
Ms. Tlaib and Ms. Goldberg apparently disagree with Michelle Obama's advice that when they go low, we go high.
Instead of a call for civility in public discourse, Ms. Goldberg's opinion, expressed with its own share of vulgarity, represents the new normal of progressives who have yet to demonstrate an ability to change anything for the better.
6
Call me old and unhip; I don't see how using such profane language makes this new Congresswoman any better than Trump.
Years ago, one of my professors called obscene language "verbal rape." In most cases, it's also uncreative and useless.
America may be changing, but have some class in how that's being accomplished.
9
The office of president deserves respect, the current occupant does not. He's unfit for most anything.
2
Goldberg, you are so out of touch with reality as usual. We don't need Democrats with potty mouths trying to outdo Trump. The saying that you don't want to wrestle with pigs because you get dirty and the pigs like, holds so true here.
10
What she said showed a lack of education, imagination and class. You do not defeat someone like Trump by crawling into the pig wallow with him. You defeat Trump by showing the people what government is supposed to look like, how their elected representative are supposed to conduct themselves. What class and grace in the face of crudity looks like. If you want to make Trump look like a fool, when he is done insulting you, you, in a room full of reporters and with cameras rolling, publicly forgive him and give him a big hug. Then tell him you have confidence that some day he will grow into the position. THAT shows education, imagination & class.
11
The hypocrisy from the right is stupid.
The congresswoman’s choice of words was stupid.
The idea that progressive women cannot channel their constituents’ rage for fear of opening themselves up to reactionary attacks is stupid.
That Christians can ignore children in cages but clutch their pearls and cry think of the children when they hear a fleeting expletive is stupid.
That a supermajority of the populace has to pretend that this was out of line is stupid.
The equivalence drawn between the racist vile policies from this White House and an apt expletive is stupid.
That kids can’t look up to the leaders of their country practicing the art of politics is stupid.
This column is stupid.
The reaction to this column on Twitter will be stupid.
Twitter is stupid.
Everything about everything is almost entirely stupid.
I quit.
2
Where were all these "shocked & offended" GOP voices when Joe Wilson shouted "You Lie" at Obama's State of the Union?
8
@peter. And where we’re talking the Dems when voters were called deplorable? And where were the Dems when Mad Max called for violence against Republicans?
6
To all of the tsk-tskers who have commented about the horrifying word used by the incoming congresswoman here, I suggest that they retire to their parlors and have tea. These courageous women have come to fight for us. Watch what they do. Let's not pretend that this isn't a sexist response from people who think it is inappropriate for "ladies" to use profanity.
7
Wow! It is hard to believe that Rashida Tlaib said nothing wrong. Free speech, guaranteed by our constitution, allows Congresswoman Tlaib to say all the wrong things. As a member of Congress, I would expect all members of Congress to respect the institution and democratic values for which it stands. It is the duty of all government officials to act responsibly in their obligations to debate and enact the laws of the land. It is not their obligation to provoke and use inappropriate language when you disagree with your colleagues. It is time for the adults to take charge and have the students get back in their seats and be prepared to learn. Congresswoman Tlaib, your first day in Congress was a major disappointment. You are young and inexperienced. You are the child in the room. Please learn from those who have preceded you. They are the ones who had the foresight to create a democracy which allowed you to become a Congresswoman.
15
Oh great, a whole column's worth of "But he did it first, teacher!"
14
I think the explanation is really a lot more simple. Conservatives and Republicans are looking for any excuse to point the finger at Democrats and yell foul. Rashida Tlaib gave them an excuse, albeit a mild and silly one. The outrage really has nothing to do with her personally though. Any Democratic House member would have endured the same reaction.
We can fairly call the mock-outrage hypocritical but what good does it do? There's a 24 hour news organization dedicated to fake partisan outrage no matter how absurd. We're talking about people who ran a multi-day attack piece on Obama for making a "Pirate Day" joke. And Democrats are supposed to be the snowflakes? Don't get me started on the "terrorist fist bump" either.
The fact of the matter is Trump is an absolutely terrible President. He is impeachable and quite possibly removable. However, politicians and pundits are paid to pretend he's great and call everyone else terrible. We don't really need to psycho-analyze this phenomenon. They are paid to pretend Trump is great. That's all you need to know.
Personally, I couldn't live with myself if Trump were ever signing my paycheck. Of course, Trump employees rarely seem to face this moral dilemma because Trump employees rarely seem to get paid.
1
this article is wrong. Good manners count in the long run because they are part of good conduct, or ought to be. Getting in the gutter with Trump lowers anyone who does. Additionally the English language is rich enough to make the same points without profanity, and better.
13
One of the ways that old white men stay in charge is by attacking those who DARE to do as they do. Don't forget that lesson you learned as a child, sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me. Trump's actions are sticks and stones - hurting immigrants, hurting federal workers. Don't be misdirected by the pathological liars who do anything to maintain their power.
3
"Michele Bachmann of the left" That works. We need more careless politicians.
3
Personally, I have no moral issue with the use of that word or any of the other six remaining from the original George Carlin 7.
However, the one she employed happened to be the "H" bomb of that group, and the use of it was neither effective or plausibly humorous. That's one where you really need to pick your spots with, and for me it just seemed forced and not at all clever.
There may be "nothing wrong" with it's use, but there was little to nothing "right" about it, either.
When you burst through the door with something like that as your calling card, you better be prepared to back it up.
5
It's worth noting that some of these same critics said Elizabeth Warren was "inauthentic" for drinking a beer. Tlaib was simply saying something millions of Americans feel - good for her!
2
The showing-off was completely unnecessary, the reaction was totally predictable, the result is unproductive and, worst of all, distracts from the real work at hand.
Time to stop blabbing and get to work. And I don't mean impeachment, which would be even less clever from a political standpoint than mouthing off about it.
I usually like Michelle's columns but this one is a total clunker.
9
This whole controversy is about nothing. Just locker room talk, if I have the right excuse.
Of course, if D's use "locker room talk" then the R's need the fainting couch. And if Trump uses "locker room talk" the D's need a fainting couch.
Nothing new.
1
I am sick of this hypocritical faux outrage by the right. I am sick of the idea of turning the other cheek. I am sick of the "we go high" philosophy to the dirty dealings by the republicans for decades. Remember the "swift boat" lies that disparaged a war hero?
If the only way to rid the country of this cancer that is the Republican Party is to get down to their level, I'm all for it. See what playing nice has gotten us?
See what not prosecuting the people that caused the recession has gotten us?
I'm not advocating prosecuting political enemies after a win, but I'm all for putting criminals where they belong, in jail.
That is my biggest disappointment with Obama, that he let all those criminal acts by Wall Street go unpunished and no, a fine is not going to do anything, these people see it as a cost of doing business. Also a lot of those fines are tax deductible.
Perhaps the media could ignore the overwrought and hypocritical republicans for a change instead of trying to make a mountain out of a molehill. Can we have a more thoughtful and careful media circus for our next election which might prevent a repeat of the 2020 outcome.
2
Sorry, no cigar. Congress members represent all of their constituents, not just their own rabid supporters. Ms. Tlaib showed she has no class, no dignity. Why should anyone respect her ideas (if she has them)? I expect better from ALL of my representatives in Congress, Senate and House alike. Time to act like grownups. And she said this to her son before she boomed it out to a crowd? Sheesh.
15
Michelle -
People are upset about this because these new faces in Congress are supposed to be BETTER than Donald Trump. (This is admittedly a low bar, but this is all the more reason for it to be met.) When they stoop to the level of people like the President or Dick Cheney, it plays right into the Republicans' hand. If there is going to be an impeachment, it is not going to be fun or funny. It will be emotionally draining for all of us. This is a delicate time in the history of the nation, and brashness is not our friend.
11
When Donald Trump is revered for "telling it like it is" and a woman is excoriated for the same; I see everything I need to know. Only Brett, Lindsay and Donald have the right to "be authentic". Have Stormy hold your pearls and I will hold Rashida's beer. And by the way, she represents her Detroit district 100%. This is what we think and how we talk. But I guess only Trump voters are to be fascinating and deserving of media coverage.
2
Yeah, she should have been classier than Trump.
But what you or your headline writer meant was that the reaction to her plain speaking was obscenely hypocritical.
Trump has corrupted the judciary and eviscerated the federal government. He has now set his eyes on disbanding the House. He is well on the path to dictator. Nothing said is going to change that. We need action.
Oh my! That one danced on a rooftop in college!
Now this one swore in public, and she's Muslim!!
This is all sexism, sour grapes, and fear. Republican men are terrified of these young women and the change they represent.
Of course, these Republican men aren't calling the women out on their policy positions. How could they? That would imply that they respect the women as peers, which they certainly do not. Instead, they use their misogyny textbook, and go for the tried-and-true method of public shaming.
Swearing in a context where it is not appropriate is a problem, but a superficial one. The reactions to the swear revealed problems that go much deeper.
Thank you MG for shedding light on this.
4
“The change they represent”. I’ll believe that when I see it, but pardon me for not holding my breath until then. These “ new women” will fall prey to the money machine, just like Bill Clinton, Obama and every other elected representative save a noble few. I’ll be impressed when they refuse money from PACs, lobbyists and special interests. And pass lobbying reform. That’ll be “change”.
Nothing on the voting rights bill, the biggest in 40 yrs. Everything on the drama.
1
Great last line Ms. Goldberg.
1
I can't stand Trump, but the impeachment talk is stupid - a) on what specific grounds? b) it requires 2/3 of the senate, if it even goes to the floor, which is VERY unlikely with the GOP still in control of the senate, c) even if successfully impeached, that does not remove him from office, and d) such talk, aside from being unrealistic and premature in terms of letting the the desire for impeachment drive the search for evidence vs. letting the evidence justify calls for impeachment, such talk only further divides us and takes the focus away from Trump's failings and the GOP's failings.
Any calls for impeachment deserve a "shut up" regardless of whether it comes from a man, woman, veteran or rookie.
As for the expletive, we need less of that all around, more decorum throughout society to calm us down and narrow the divisiveness, improve dialogue. The "well, they have no reason to be outraged because they do it too" doesn't justify it.
Finally, regarding rookies, their tendency is to come into congress with all the fervor of their campaign, but the problem is most don't know what they're talking about. Case in point, some tea party whackos from the 2010 wave - some honest ones, once they looked at the actual numbers and took in reality, something they COULD have done before getting elected, realized things were not as they had thought, sorry, 'believed' (not much thinking had gone on before, just belief). Oops. So, rookies: do your homework.
2
Representative Rashida Tlaib is of Palestinian origin, she is Muslim, she is a woman - that’s 3 strikes for many Americans. It’s doesn't matter if she cursed (at a private celebration event) or not, she will always be targeted for destruction. If anyone believes that a Christian, White male freshman Congressman had used the same exact curse word and said that they would impeach Trump at a private celebration event would have received the same media freak out reaction, they are totally delusional. It’s that double standard and hypocrisy and media freak out that Michelle Goldberg so accurately and appropriately condemns.
I also know there is so such thing as private in our social media/smartphone age, but Representative Tlaib did not make her comments at a public event while our President routinely curses at very public political rallies - as a Presidential candidate when he used the same exact term as Tlaib, and as President at his nonstop political rallies.
Above all, Representative Tlaib is representing the majority view of her constituents who elected her and who want to see Trump impeached and removed from office. Above all, Representative Tlaib is an American standing up to Trump. Fainting because she cursed is beyond ridiculous - it’s a non-story. The efforts to destroy her because who she is are totally predictable, but that does not stop them from being completely wrong. As always, thanks Michelle Goldberg.
2
@MC suggesting that those who disagree with a point of view or even used of course language are somehow bigoted against a certain identity is what got Trump elected in the first place. He's the king of grievance driven identity politics. But America is still a land of ideals; witness the free election of a Palestinian, Muslim woman.
I’m not going to clutch pearls due to a little over exuberance by a new Member of the House speaking to a crowd in full agreement with her. While I’d like to see some mature discourse, and I hate “whataboutisms”, where are the Republicans House and Senate Members calling for civility during Trump’s hate rallies as he’s calling for violence against the Press, political adversaries, and even NFL players. All I see and hear are these very people defending him as “real”, or “he’s just speaking from the heart.”
Yep, just like Ms. Tlaib.
2
I've heard it said that two wrongs don't make a right. The defense that Dick Cheney and Donald Trump also swear doesn't right the wrong. That should be obvious. By the way if what Rep. Tlaib was "fit to print" why then doesn't The NY Times print it in its entirety?
3
Well, Michelle, remember this column. Because things are only going to get worse if all sides join the Trumpster in the land of vulgarity and anger. No good will come of this.
5
There's an incoherent strain running through these comments- the idea that offense at vulgarity would lead you to vote for Donald Trump, himself a walking vulgarity.
1
No it's more like if the democrats have nothing better to offer then why complain about Trump?
3
I'm a 65 year-old woman who, as my mother used to say, can "cuss like a sailor" without batting an eye. So I am not offended by Tlaib's expletive. However, when I am in a professional or public setting, I try not to swear, and I believe Congress should be considered the ultimate professional setting. I also am well aware of the different standards held for women in this regard, and do not see any difference between Donald Trump or Dick Cheney swearing and a female member of Congress.
2
Well written. Thanks. Tired of these old white guys and their pretended shock. Look at how Kavanaugh behaved on national tv. Listen to what T says every day. That's something to be shocked about.
2
People who take umbrage at Tlaib's language are the "crocodile tears people." They are "shocked" at such coarse language: among their foes. But they kiss the ring of the Sleaze in Chief while reciting his ignorant, mentally challenged utterances.
We need to save the republic from Trump and his henchmen and if a coarse word should make them jittery, so be it. I love to watch them squirm.
1
Ms Goldberg's thesis seems to be that use of profanity by men is accepted, but not by women, that it's not necessarily a partisan issue. It's unfortunate she didn't cite any examples of male Democrats using profanity being ignored (or inciting outrage). Such examples would have bolstered her case considerably. By citing examples of Republican men swearing without censure (by Republicans), though, she does make a case that it is at least partly partisan. In this respect, we can see the issue as a clear example of the unthinking, tribalistic nature of the Republican mind at work. They work overtime ignoring, for example, Melania Trump's nude modeling, while vilifying Alexandra Octavio Cortez's college dancing. Rationalization is not rational.
1
It's about time targeting women for things that men do routinely and triumphantly stopped. I don't mean cursing or swearing. Whoever does that does it to express strong emotions, and the debate on the first amendment is a different one. I mean the tradition since, say, forever, of pillorying women for speaking, for writing, for reading, for drawing....you name it. We are regressing. Trump's America is a turn away from decency and (even legislated) equality to times at least five hundred years ago when women received the same treatment as Tlaib for expressing themselves. Do we really want to go back five hundred years or more? It would really serve the powers that be.
Many people, including myself, challenge and criticize President Trump on what he says on a daily basis. Not criticizing Representative Tlaib for what she said would be a double standard. She should be a leader fighting for her constituents, not just someone looking to make a name by using profanity against the President.
2
I'm all for a return to more civility in political discourse but we aren't getting there by selective faux outrage by pundits. Yes, Cheney broke the ground, and it was in on the actual Senate floor, not in a bar. In response to the faux outrage the Internet was flooded with video clips of Trump using the exact same word, and others.
If we're going to be outraged, at least let's be "Fair and Balanced". Often truth has a liberal bias.
Sorry, I still expect legislators to show some class, even when I agree with them.
9
Let's face it, the Republicans in our Congress are uncomfortable with the fact our newly elected House representatives are angry, and a large number of them are angry women. Rashida Tlaib was expressing, in the most direct and threatening way, the sentiments of a great many Americans, and, most probably, those of many of our new House Representatives. What she was saying was not just a crude joke. Her sentiments are her intentions are behind that comment. Of course, the conservative, and hostile, Republicans who responded with outrage were trying to discredit her to reduce her power, and her effectiveness. Expect more of the same this first year of the new Congress.
1
It probably would have been better if Ms. Goldberg followed her initial impulse and ignored this person's energetic outburst and, like so many conservative commentators, made a mountain out of this rhetorical molehill. Of more interest to me would be a later column investigating the voting performance and committee participation of the new Congress person and of her newly elected Democratic colleagues.
My comments are short. Fury, passion, outrage, and commitment are appropriate when the current governance is itself an ongoing obscenity. However, we cannot have it both ways. The debasing of our political discourse by the current administration and its allies is toxic to the sorely needed policy discussion and resolution needed. The term “mother......” is less about bringing forth intensity and more about playing to a base. We have appropriately demanded that our politicians start acting like the adults in the room. Hopefully, the new facs in Washington will not try to prove themselves by broadening needless ue of offensiv language across the political spectrum.
1
She said nothing wrong? I beg to differ. Using foul language in public, as an elected official, is simply unacceptable. Seems we are stooping lower and lower.
Great for her to incite the masses with her gibberish of impeachment when she should know that her party does not have the votes to force this through.
Why not concentrate on doing something for the voters instead of seeking revenge?
5
Language, and the English language in particular has so many nuances and intriguing ways to express thoughts and emotion. Ms. Tlaib would be well served to try something new rather than the tired expressions that only create division. Since Ms. Tlaib is a person of Palestinian descent this is even more important. Now, I know many will say that should make no difference and that it is wrong to put that burden on someone, but unfortunately that is the reality of the social media circus we live in. I support Ms. Tlaib in her fight, but it would be unwise to think life is fair. Step up your game.
1
Again, why do women have the goal to act as men? Why is the base bar set by recent politicians a target for women? I don't get it? These new legislators have the opportunity to set a higher behavioral expectation. Why do they want to lower themselves to men?
"So why the fainting fit over a bad word?"
Sorry, but you lost me on this one. Really, we are ok with members of Congress using words like that in public? Trump wallows in the gutter and too many of us are joining him there. How about a bit of respect for the significant portion of the population that is offended by the use of such language? Or, has common decency and respect for others become old-fashioned?
4
Someone needs to be the adult in the room. If I went into a client and spoke in that manner I'd be out of a job. And if I can't do it, I don't see why politicians should be able to.
I say worse things privately. Much worse. But I think we have an obligation to set some standards for public discourse. What examples are we setting for our children? We already have problems with people understanding appropriate public behavior.
She was wrong, plain and simple. And anyone else who does it in wrong. Behave yourself in public, man or woman. Donald Trump is a walking, breathing symbol of what is wrong with part of this country. Why would we want to use him as as standard? If we can't keep it civil what hope is there for us as a society?
5
I'm a flaming liberal and want to see Trump impeached, BUT there's no way to dress Ms. Tlaib's exuberant outburst as something good. It was poor judgement. It was a misstep, not a particularly serious one, but let's not heap praise on this choice. It was odd to say this in a statement that involved her son, or with kids around. I do agree that Trump should be impeached, but there is certainly a strong argument to wait for the Muller report.
I think there is a LOT of sexism out there. I believe that Elizabeth Warren, for example, is an extraordinarily strong candidate, but this harping on her likability is just sexism by another name. BUT, I believe that a man making the same statement as Ms. Tlaib, under the same circumstances, would have suffered equal or greater criticism. No way to prove this, of course, unless a Democratic male wants to volunteer for the experiment.
Fortunately, we now have the amazing AOC who seems able to deflect the arrows of sexism with the ease of Wonder Woman.
3
I think the outrage over Tlaib's remarks is entirely manufactured by right wing commentators to try and develop a 'both sides do it' narrative and workup their endlessly naïve base. There is nothing authentic about this outrage.
1
What disturbs me about the comment is that it reflects the level to which discourse had dropped. We criticize Trump for his vulgarity and we should hold our colleagues to the same standard. Trump has diminished the stature of the Presidency. Let's be careful that the same thing does not happen in Congress.
2
The essay is paradoxical: it Bowdlerizes the very terms it claims are innocuous. It relies on euphemisms like "salty" -- an anachronistic vocabulary-- to de-emphasize its own assertions. Why? Responsible newspapers - like elected representatives - have an obligation to democratize thought and criticism: to explain rationally and fairly the differences they have with others (here the 42% who still support Trump). The problem with the explitive language under discussion is not that it is dirty or dishonest but that it supported the very opposition it hoped to tumble and encouraged non-rational invective on both sides. Because of it, Trump is stronger and the hard right more entrenched. In short, such statements are counter-productive.
I pledge allegiance to the left, but more foul language, even when it's marginally justifiable, raises the temperature and lowers the discourse. One of the things I miss about President Obama is the beauty of his language and his ability to always find the right words. This is another purity test (oddly enough) to prove your true-blue leftiness. It's tired already and a about to get worse. Let's not talk like The Donald.
1
One of my favorite quotes is by Oscar Wilde: "It's absurd to divide people into groups of good and bad. People are either charming or tedious."
In that spirit, I will say that I find Ms. Tlaib's remarks not bad or wrong, but just tedious, reminiscent of a pre-pubescent trying to irritate her parents. The same is true of much of what comes out of Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez's mouth (and Twitter feed). While the uproar over the old video of her dancing was ridiculous, so was her response, to tape a new video of her dancing, this time on Capitol Hill. It was the equivalent of a toddler saying "nya nya nya nya nya."
As a progressive female, I find these outbursts to be both classless and embarrasing. Oh, and remarkably tedious.
4
Ms Goldberg has let her militant feminism get the best of her here. She is my favorite writer but she is wrong. And it's very basic as other commenters have pointed out. Two wrongs don't make a right. I agree that in the midst of all the problems and what's going on, it's not important. And the Republican outrage is total hypocrisy. But I don't see how you can argue that the coarsening of society is a good thing.
2
Words and language matter. To justify using obscenities by pointing to the current president’s practices misses the point.
We abhor Trump’s lack of decorum. Why would we want to emulate it?
I don’t condemn Rep. Tlaib as a person but want her to recognize that her words are heard by many including children and folks who don’t want to hear the coarse language that seems pervasive in our culture in certain places .
Yes let’s move on but we must be better than people like Cheney and Trump.
Lowering ourselves to their standards is pointless.
2
I think the context of this issue is the most important, that being using the word to her son...how many Times readers have ever used that word in addressing their children, or would be supportive of their children using it at home? My hunch is that if Ms. Goldberg were a mother, her perspective would be informed by that reality.....
@Dennis Holland She *said* she said it to her son. But she's a politician. There's no reason to believe her.
Look, I'm on your side. I don't like him, either. But you are blinded by your ideology. That was a terrible, amateur mistake. She shouldn't have said it and it's going to haunt the Progressive cause.
2
NO ONE on the right, particularly those who support Trump, have a leg to stand on when criticizing Rep Rashida for using foul language. Although I don't think swearing by public officials should be normalized, we should at least treat everyone fair and equal.
Having said that, everything about Trump forces a passionate and visceral reaction from people who believe in decency, truthfulness, honesty, and justice. Using foul language in reaction to what Trump is doing to our political culture and norms is the least of it.
239
@Eddie What makes you think that the only people complaining are on the right. As far as I can tell here, many of the complaints are coming from people on the left.
12
@Eddie Rep Rashida did not help the cause by using the f word. There is no excuse. I did not vote for DT and I am disgusted by his behavior, but sinking to his level which Rep Rashida has done, is not to be glorified. Those so quick to say what she said is just fine, those including the columnist, are plain and simple hypocrites. One can not honestly condemn Trump on the one hand, and the laud a brand new congresswoman for her crude and crass behavior. It is not acceptable from her and she should be called out. As to TD his deeds will catch up with him, but in the meantime, the rest of us need to take the high road.
3
@John you are right! Like I said, everyone should be treated fairly and equally.
1
Nice try Michelle, but you missed the point! According to your piece, profanity should now be accepted by both women and men because it’s now “The New Norm?”
My favorite comment about profanity is “Profanity is the feeble attempt of a weak mind to express itself forcefully!”
Here’s one for you Michelle. If what Tlaib said isn’t offensive to you, why didn’t you actually PRINT the word? Gotcha!!!!
3
She made a mistake.
She should have said: "I hope it comes to pass that Democrats decide to impeach this sexist, greedy, cruel, and horrible man."
That's a mule that kicks much harder than what she fecklessly said.
7
Two vulgar politicians don't make a right. Talib not only begins her tenure with a vile remark, but hurts the Democrats by screaming about impeachment, which is not what will get Trump out of office.
She also accused U.S. Jews of having dual loyalty, an ancient and repulsive canard.
Rashida Tlaib said nothing wrong? Seriously?
www.newyorkgritty.net
2
This column is obscene. Goldberg would be freaking out if a Republican called Obama a profanity. There would be cries of racism and general outrage. A congressman simply told Obama "You Lie" (he was lying) and the leftist media had a heart attack.
5
If the newly sworn in congressperson said nothing wrong why doesn't Goldberg and The New York Times print EXACTLY what Tlaib said?
Go figure.
6
Feeling faint I ran for the salts, afraid to look out my window for fear I'd see the republic collapsing. Whatever happened to "Gosh" and 'Darn' and 'so's your old man'?
Rashida Tlaib has every right to her freedom of speech but she would have been wiser to omit the profanity. People do not take you seriously when you use language like this. Any idiot can speak this way. It does not matter which political party uses it, it is vulgar and crass. I have heard intelligent people speak this way and am not impressed.
I live in Manhattan and have heard everything. I despise it and refuse to use it. I don't care if people think I am a prude I will not use this language. I like to be different and use originality in my speech. It may take a bit more brain power but I certainly get my point across. Why be like everybody else. That is so boring.
8
First Palestinian-elect. One term term candidate. Yeah, maturity counts, too.
5
This is such a “when my team does it, it’s ok” op-Ed, an unprincipled joke.
9
The fake outrage from the right is more of the barrage of of lies that support their positions. Any morsel that can be used to attack women, blacks or democrats is seized upon. I don't think they really care about civility judging from the lowlife they support.
They don't believe in wrong and right they just want to attack.
3
Perhaps Tlaib thought it would distract the audience from her anti-Semitism, which she displays daily. What could be more progressive than that?
5
Wars are lost through stupidity. The democratic party is in a war. The goal of the war is to save the country. If we are to see a Democratic President in 2021 than the dems have to be smart, and you are not going to win the election by alienating white voters, I promise you that. The democratic party must be the party with the big tent that welcomes all, skin color shouldn't matter, white skin included.
1
As your colleague columnist Maureen Dowd noted, Tlaib’s vulgarity was delightful and worth it for the rather bizarre spectacle of watching a strong woman turn a bunch of entitled, racist, self-centred, well-to-do bullies into precisely the kind of ‘snowflakes’ they usually mock mercilessly. Tables turned! There may be hope for the Democrats yet!
3
I will stick with Michelle Obama, when they go low we go high, classy versus ugly.
1
AOC's "Don't hate me 'cause you ain't me" seems an appropriate comment here. What a time of hope for reversing the downward spiral of a sanctimonious group of hypocrites.
2
"Last Thursday, newly elected Representative Rashida Tlaib, Democrat of Michigan, spoke at the People’s Swearing-In, a party celebrating the progressive women who make the 2019 congressional class so distinctive."
Ms. Rashida Tlaib used Quran to swear herself in.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article223866655.html
It is good to know that Islam faith is based on the Trilogy consisting of Koran, Hadith and Sira. In total, 31% of these texts encourage Jihad
http://cspipublishing.com/statistical/trilogy-jihad.html
51% of these text is devoted to converting the unbelievers (Kafirs) into Islam
http://cspipublishing.com/statistical/sira-kafir.html
So relying on Koran does not makes Ms. Tlaib ‘progressive’.
Perhaps being a member of the Democratic Socialist of America makes her deserve to be called 'progressive'?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashida_Tlaib#Political_positions
Or perhaps, she is seen as ‘progressive’ because she tries to outdo Trump in arrogance?
It looks that the Democrats won the House by quantity rather than by quality of their representatives. I’m losing my heart again to support them…
3
The problem has to do with women being put on a pedestal by the left. If a man insults another man, people look away. But, a man cannot get away with insulting a woman like that without being tarred and feathered. Women want equal rights to men, but are held to lower standards. Judge Judy is a perfect example of that. She regularly calls people in her courtroom "morons" and "idiots" in front of the cameras and gets away with it, because she's a woman. Male judges don't do that, because they can't get away with abusive language with a woman without being called out for it. Women want to know why there is a pay gap between men and women. It's because men are held to higher standards in the work environment and Congress is no exception.
1
Ms. Goldberg, this is your mind on partisanship. Let's have one clear standard: clean it up. Leave the trash-talking to the Trumps and Cheneys. We don't need baroque excuses that explain why it's different when we do it.
One thing Democratic leaders can do for us is to avoid feeding the Republican troll. Don't cart fuel to the Republican dumpster fire.
1
You imply that Daniel Pipes is bigoted because he condemned Tlaib in the context of what Israelis endure from Palestinians. I look forward to read what you call Tlaib for the absence of the state of Israel from the map in her office.
1
This Goldberg column isn’t worthy of publication by the Times. Justification by vulgar bombast is a Trumpian characteristic as well as juvenile phrases like “Cheney themselves.” Worse, the offending Congresswoman’s speech may be more redolent of Fatah-Hamas conflicts than the debate appropriate in a constitutional democracy. When they go low, we go high, a dignified former First Lady advised. Blunt, scathing and effective debate will carry the day! And elections, by the way!
1
I haven’t seen such outrage since President Obama put mustard on his hamburger.
3
I use profanity more than I should, so my ears don’t burn when I hear it. But it sounded juvenile, unprofessional and just plain stupid coming from the mouth of a newly elected member of Congress.
5
Pointing out the use of obscene language by others does not justify its use. Also, we cannot condemn the coarsening of our public discourse and, at the same time, engage in it ourselves.
Furthermore, some people respond sympathetically to Trump in instances such as this one. I’ve heard the term “Trump bashing” suggesting that there are those who believe that there is an element of unfairness in all the criticism being heaped on him.
The congresswoman did no service to herself. Any moron can resort to obscene language to make one’s point. An intelligent, well spoken person shouldn’t resort to such tactics. We expect more of our government officials
3
Maybe we would excuse a woman for swearing if she couldn’t afford adequate medical coverage for her sick child.
Women dance and swear? I’m shocked, shocked.
3
The Republican reaction is utterly hypocritical.
Two+ years ago, it was open season on Hillary Clinton at GOP campaign rallies. We didn't hear any Republicans rushing around yelling "Oh, my ears! My ears!"
No, they fed hostile, violent misogyny instead.
3
If only The Times could have seen how scandalized the country was when Nixon's few choice words were leaked to the world.
1
"...... the straight-faced audacity of Republicans feigning outrage over profanity......" says it all. 'Nuff said.
2
Thanks, Michelle. I like your honesty. I don’t have a problem with Tlaib’s enthusiasm. And I think Nancy Pelosi was right...no such hubbub would be raised if a man had said it...and by the way, our male president has been verbally vulgar on more than one occasion. So, naysayers, spare me.
4
Women are still plagued by centuries of being told to be "ladylike" and obviously, for some people, that hasn't changed. In men, salty language is seen as powerful. In women it is "disgraceful". It's all part of the ages-old crusade to control women. A hundred years ago they tried to convince women that it was unladylike to vote. This storm of shock and outrage is just part of the 21st century version.
Just think about it - the US has a president that daily abuses his power, that separates children from their parents as a matter of policy, is a serial sexual abuser, uses his office for personal gain, and on and on. But let a woman say one word that is arbitrarily banned from "polite" society but is part of daily speech by millions, and Republicans are shocked, I tell you. Shocked!
They are trying to do the same thing with this that they tried to do to AOC over a cute little dance video from her undergrad days. They will attack anything in an effort to distract focus from the dysfunctional grifter-in-chief in the White House. Don't let them.
1
Really, what is so annoying about this is the self righteousness of certain moral scolds who have been totally silent while their leader says and does some truly immoral things. But they are ready to rise in horror at one dang word. Pul-leaze.
2
I live in a red state that we are fighting for Democrats to win at both state and federal levels. Our female candidate for Congress,Amy McGrath, list. She was forced to state that she was liberal -liberal-liberal and was pro abortion across the board. Her state was used by Republicans in tv ads thousands of times. Hillary Clinton’s statement about relishing the chance to coal miners out of work also was played thousands of times. Needless to say Amy lost her bid. Democrats can’t win by being stupid and making stupid statements. Will someone please LEAD or coach this party about WINNING tactics. Tlaib’s statement was vulgar and STUPID.
3
Vulgarity is vulgarity whether the offensive remarks are made by a Democrat or a Republican. Trump is often criticized, with good reason, for degrading political discourse. Trump is a vulgar man while Tlaib is a vulgar woman. Let us hope that other newly elected representatives and senators will not follow their example.
2
To those who still think of Rashida’s language as vulgar, I’ve got news for you: the days of using words like “shoot” and “freeking” to hide what people really meant to say are over, at least for her generation. And it’s the enthusiasm and straightforwardness of that age group that lead the blue wave in the 2018 elections and its their spirit that’s needed to bring down Trump and his backward Republicans party.
2
She did. When you are in public life there is an obligation to observe the proprieties of civil discourse. Just because this rule is frequently broken by those on the right including the president does not give Democrats freedom to do the same. That Goldberg is essentially endorsing breaking this rule and indulging in gross vulgarity in the public arena tells all we need to know about her own standards of behavior. Why does the NYT employ people like this?
2
This isn't even a decent attempt at mental gymnastics.
2
This NYT called this episode "an outburst" and "expletive-laden". 'Twas neither. It was one sentence punctuated with a curse for effect.
Tlaib's comment was delivered in a bar to supporters not on the Senate floor where there are some set rules for behavior - which - surprise surprise - Cheney did not think he had to adhere to.
I am a woman, I swear when I feel like and if it's helping me make a point. I work among plenty of men and women who swear. No-one freaks out. Like pretty much everything in political news these days, it's a manufactured drama.
4
I can swear like the sailor I used to be, but it’s very simple to me. If the New York Times won’t publish it, it should not be part of public discourse. Don’t try to make a hero out of her; chastise her and move on to something important.
2
Typical republican hypocrisy. Besides, Talib comment was correct.
2
I never cease to be amazed at how consistently corporate media unfairly apply different standards to men versus women, Republicans versus Democrats, minorities versus whites, progressives versus conservatives, poor versus rich, dissidents versus establishmentarians, and ordinary people versus celebrities.
Either the media are as intellectually and morally corrupt as many critics claim, or far too many journalists are too ignorant, too lazy and too stupid to be competent.
I'm more concerned with her recent Tweet where she accuses Israeli supporters in the US as having "dual loyalties". This is a well worn anti-Semitic smear and should be roundly condemned.
1
Spouting obscenities is easy. It’s a sign of an inarticulate person. It’s nothing to be proud of.
2
Nothing is more hypocritical than Republicans, evangelicals and other bible-thumping supporters of a foul-mouthed president who lies as he speaks, assaults women, cheats on his wives, conspires with hostile foreign powers, violates the constitution on a daily basis and mires this White House in a cesspool of corruption now criticizing a congresswoman for using the same language as Trump. Tsk tsk!
2
This is plain stupid on Tlaib's part to such a remark. My guess is that she cost the Democrats thousands of votes in the 2020 elections. In the case of the Chief Felon I cannot suppress the feeling that in this case "if the shoe fits wear it". It is not as if she was referring to honored statesman like FDR or IKE. If someone wants to tell off the Chief Felon perhaps a better statement would be for him to "attempt upon himself a physical act which is anatomically impossible"!!
2
Oh my! A potty mouth in Congress! How can this be? It can be because the situation in DC is more of an obscenity than anything that has been said by anyone. Since Republicans, and so-called Christians, get their panties in a knot over anything and everything except their own cruelty and deceit we can tolerate a little honest anger and frustration. Ultimately it is behavior that we should judge, not epithets that are spoken, or even shouted.
1
If what she said was okay, why didn't you print it?
7
Michelle, you are so on point. What is obscene is a "president" who spouts nonsense and hatred. Libs lose because we must pass some purity of goodness and grace test. A hint of scandal, a bad word, and now even dancing as a teen is enough in the minds of dems and reps alike (enabled by the media) to destroy a dem candidate. Rep's lie, cheat, commit treason, and steal; and, they get reelected!. Enough is enough. Words from the so called president matter a tough word from a freshman congresswomen is just that a tough word.
2
Well, democrats and the right's propaganda machine, women and male-dominated society, and black/brown people in wasp culture all have to be Ginger Rogers dancing backwards while also being dignified and undeniably better at what they do. Not quite catch 22 but pretty darn close.
2
expletives are essentially emotional responses or emotional appeals. while i can see how some emotion in politics can be appropriate, shouldn't we just stick with cold reason?
coarse language is tantamount to coarse behavior. if we can't do better than it's a struggle to ask your opposition to. There is already plenty of emotion in todays political debate. I am certain comments such as Rashida Tlaib will not make things better, and probably make them worse. We need to support smart, civil, creative, novel, and diverse leaders.
You don't have to be destructive to be a fighter.
2
Maybe Congresswoman Tlaib should deliver the Democratic response to Trump's speech tonight, with a seven second delay for the networks, of course.
You were right the first time: you should have ignored it. How come so many in the media think "media" refers to someone else?
2
Representative Tlaib ran on a platform in which she called for impeaching the president. She won an imposing victory. Her statement was reflecting what her constitutents voted for.
I am sure she wanted the president to understand what she had pledged. To make sure he heard her, it was necessary to use language which he understood.
I don't support impeachment, until or unless. there is evidence of "high crimes and misdemeanors." But, I absolutely support Representative Tlaib, her courage, honesty and eloquence.
4
Profanity is not professional, whether you are a man or a woman. I, a female, was at a consulting client last year. The CFO (also female) and I were on a call with a young (recently out of college) male employee in a satellite office. Every other word out of his mouth was a profanity. I was cringing. Needless to say, he did not make a good impression on the CFO.
1
Sharon,
Not all of us is looking for a mealy mouthed toady.
Weasel words are fine for some.
We are looking for a fighter and for change.
Rashida brings just that.
They hired her as their representative.
1
This is the silliest controversy ever. I've given it scant attention and I'll continue to do so.
2
To make Tlaib’s outburst about a “foul” word is ludicrous. As a Trump-hater I am disappointed in Tlaib because she threatens to disrupt what is emerging as a clearly calculated and methodical strategy on the part of experienced Democrats to remove Trump by high-road standards and a, God forgive me, *plan*. Perhaps this is a word that seems lost on the inexperienced new and impetuous members who are compelled to “express” themselves regardless of the long-term damage they can do by spurring Republicans to proclaim, “See we told you so!”. As one pundit said yesterday, “Don’t give your opponents the gun to shoot you with.” To paraphrase another, “Take ‘yes’ for an answer.” You won, now keep your head down for at least the first 90 days, and then work WITHIN the system, not as a renegade grandstander grabbing self-aggrandizing attention that accomplishes nothing in ridding our country of this malicious, insane dictator.
5
Lots of words to justify Tlaib's comment.
So I guess that means that it was OK. Of course it was OK in isolation, but it takes our eyes off of the ball.
The ball is getting Trump out of office. Giving ammunition to Trump supporters is swinging at a ball out of the strike zone. It was OK to swing, but it gives the opposing team an advantage when you do.
When you get in the mud with pigs, you are going to get dirty, and Trump relishes nothing more than dragging everything down to his despicable and disgusting, self serving level.
Dems need to always ask themselves if either President Obama or Michele Obama, or either President Carter or Rosalyn Carter, or for that matter pretty much any former first couple would speak this way.
If the answer is no, then find a forceful and articulate way to do so which avoids sinking to the foul depths or Trumpism.
Allowing Trump and his crowd to set the terms of discourse is a massive mistake. and Dems are never going to win a battle of Ugly with the GOP/FOX.
6
Lack of courtesy, professionalism and crude. Does this make us and our culture/politics better? It doesn't make any difference what the person's background, it's just wrong. Let's bring us forward to a leader again. Thank you.
2
I disagree because your whole argument here is it's ok cause they do it. Or two wrongs make a right. They don't and she shouldn't have used that term. It's no big deal to me. And the Republicans are total hypocrites. But the whole country is coarsening. And I don't like that. I curse too much myself. I wish I could follow my father's lead who hardly ever swore. I wish the whole country talked like Shakespeare or V For Vendetta. It's beautiful to hear the English language spoken like that.
2
Great. Just what America needs, another politician with a 4th-grade vocabulary. Don't we already have one of those in the White House?
8
I think it would have been better had Tlaib not used profanity. Trump supporters use profanity and insults as a substitute for thinking. I have grown used to commenting on twitter as to the coarse and inarticulate nature of their remarks. I would rather not to have to make excuses for a fellow-Dem. It's not a terrible thing. However, Macron doesn't, to my knowledge, speak coarsely to French citizens; neither does May to the Brits, nor Merkel to the Germans. Hillary lost nothing by refraining from swearing in public. And I've found from life experience, people take you more seriously, at work, and in making customer service complaints, if you don't swear. Is it different at the New York Times?
2
Really, Ms. Goldberg? By noting that the new Congress has 42 women, 24 persons of color and two Muslims, that makes it OK to use gutter language? Are you saying that only women, persons of color and Muslims use gutter language?
New and old House members, let's make this clear -- despite occasional appearances to the contrary, the Capitol is not the Gaslight club, and its members aren't doing standup. For the good of your office, and the people you represent, please control your mouth.
8
Representative Tlaib can say what she wants and how she wants to.
One would assume that she assumes that her statements and her way of saying it reflect the views of those who voted for her and her party as well as their level of discourse. One might also assume that all this reflects the new House of Representatives that she and others are celebrating.
Good to get things out in the open.
As for her statement: “When people like us do run for office and don’t change anything about us, we win,” she said to cheers," people in politics who don't know how to bend a little, but remain ramrod straight in their views, tend to break or be broken.
Time will tell.
2
Ms. Tlaib also said nothing clever.
What is it, in terms of lowered standards of expression, that glorifies this type of discourse? Ms Goldberg should be taking Ms. Tlaib to task for her pathetic command of language.
How can Ms. Tlaib expect to be taken seriously, if she cannot articulate better than a rap singer?
5
My only objection was that Congresswoman Tlaib said the expletive to her 13 year son. Though I'm pretty sure he's heard those words before, I still object to adults, let alone parents, speaking to kids that way, regardless of race, ethnicity, political party, religion, gender orientation, or whatever else.
5
As you see, vulgar expressions are distractions.
Trump uses vulgarity to burnish his image and detract from his vacuity. Tlaib, a Muslim woman elected to Congress, detracts from her inspiring message by uttering unlady-like expressions.
2
Please, she said a naughty word, most of the thinking world agrees with her.
1
Did she have to stoop to trumps level? Because he thinks using vulgarity is perfectly OK doesn't make it right, far from it.
She should have taken heed to what Michelle Obama said, "when they go low, we go high". Tlaib is a disgrace to the Democratic Party. A lot can be learned from the Obamas. Their two terms in the White House were all about grace and dignity, two words this current administration lacks.
2
Tlaib said nothing wrong. As far as I'm concerned, the two dirtiest, foulest words in the English language are republican and conservative.
2
Madam, Your suspicions are 100% wrong. The uproar was due to the foul language used. And yes, it is foul language whether Cheney, Trump, West, the Easter Bunny, etc. use it. Tlaib was wrong to use foul language. If she said, "We are going to impeach this charlatan!!", there would be no uproar. No one would hate her for being any intersectional category. Please stop playing the gender victim card and write with a more fact based approach.
Ms. Goldberg, it’s a shame your condoning of the use of vulgarities by an elected official
3
Right on Michelle! Well said.
2
I get the anger and the pleasure of having gained some power over a bully. But it’s childish as all victim behavior is, not to mention undignified and annoying to your new boss, Nancy, who needs a united party.
1
Hooray Nirvana has arrived. Female politicians can be as vulgar as their male counterparts. It has been a long time coming.Public vulgarity is now gender neutral. The battle of the sexes is over.
2
Yes, Donald Trump needs to be removed from office and sent to prison or back to his handlers in Russia. However, words should be used for a purpose and what Rashida Tlaib said about Donald Trump is not productive in achieving this goal. Tactics on the side of justice need to be put in motion the way Bob Mueller is perusing America's most successful crime boss. With stealth and acumen rather than bluster and braggadocio. Donald Trump needs to be blindsided and all those who want him in the dust bin of history should remember this at every step.
2
It's true that women are hand cuffed when it comes to expressing their anger viscerally but after seeing the disrespect shown to Hillary Clinton at every Republican gathering I just chalk up their new embrace of vulgarity as "Locker (up) room" talk.
1
you are comparing, Ms. Goldberg, VP Cheney swearing at another member of government to a newly elected official, perhaps 1 day on the job cursing at a sitting President of the USA? You have completely lost your mind Ms. Goldberg. I don't care if the President is a Republican, Democrat, Independent or Window Washer. There has to be SOME decorum left in that stinking Congress and to say that to a sitting President and a person in general who is decades older, is disgusting. Have some respect for your elders for heavens sake even if the same is not true, vice-versa. One has to look in the mirror when they wake up each day.
1
@rocketship
I was taught early on, you get what you give.
Donald gives no respect, to his peers or to the Public at large so he earns none- it just so happened to come from a newly minted and duly elected Representative of the People he prides himself on stepping on.
If it was me or most people, it would have been far stronger than Talib loaded on him. And just as deserved.
Donny needs to learn he has to "take" as well as "dish out". He should be the last to lecture on the dignity of the position- he has set fire to every dignity the position of the Presidency has had and walked away shouting "MAGA".
Most of us learned that by age 10 "not to ......" add in any number of atrocities he has applauded or supported, but he is a bit slow in the social graces.
Must be a product of those schools his rich daddy Fred sent him to.
And I suppose if Ann Coulter had said that same line about Obama, you would have defended her as well, right? Or is there a double standard at work here?
1
It matters not what foul language is used against Trump, the socialist, left-wing segment of sociaty will endorse it.
Very disturbing.
1
In her remarks Tlaib exposed her immaturity and lack of judgement. And I would feel the same about a any man who said these things - and it isn't just the profanity. I lost respect for her and am also more concerned about how much these freshman Congress people are ready to govern.
5
If the Democratic party wants to show they are the "adults in the room", this is not the way.
Donald Trump has done and said many stupid things. Sinking to his level ends in no difference between him and the Democrats.
6
Just because the current President has limited vocabulary and takes pride in vulgarity there is nothing to condone such outbursts from a young woman.
English is such a beautiful language one could use it beautifully like Madame Pelosi without even raising her voice or butcher it like uneducated vulgar master loudmouth trump.
I am a lifelong Democrat and there is nothing to rejoice the use of vulgarity as condoned by this writer.
6
The profanity is a false issue. The real reason Ms. Tlaib's comment was inappropriate was its naivete about impeachment. Impeachment is not removal. Impeachment without removal (requiring 2/3 of a Republican Senate, an impossibility in today's climate) would be a gift to Trump and his supporters and could insure his reelection. Tlaib fueled the claim that this is only about partisan hatred rather than about evidence for Trump's crimes. The Democratic leaders remember only too well how the impeachment of Clinton drove up his popularity as a partisan victim. No one loathes Trump more than I do, but Democrats have to handle this with political deftness and not reckless impulsivity. Second only to my fear of Trump's damage is my fear that Democrats will blow this opportunity because they don't think before they act.
2
Rashida Tlaib singlehandedly destroyed the myth of Democratic moral superiority with her over the top obscenity laced rant. Ironically Michelle Goldberg's column appears at the same time her colleague Dr. Paul Krugman wrote a column in an attempt to sell America on the idea that Elizabeth Warren would make the ideal presidential candidate based on the long cherished myth of Democratic intellectual superiority.
Is it any wonder the media freaked out? Democrats aren't supposed to use those nasty four letter words even when referring to That Man in the White House. Never mind that Harry Truman and Lyndon Johnson were notoriously famous for using obscenities. The Democrats are automatically intellectually and morally superior and nothing must be allowed to interfere with that fantasy.
I agree with Rashida Tlaib's sentiments but not her choice of language. Among other things, it "proves" to evangelical right-wingers that Muslims are immoral and unholy.
2
I have no problem with Representative Tlaib’s language or her energy or her confidence. I appreciate her boldness, which is all too rare in politicians. I am concerned that she is fighting fire with fire, and that she will, intentionally or not, produce a leftist version of Trump supporters who seek only to separate themselves from their opponents, and look for differences rather than the commonalities with their “enemies.”
It’s fine to impeach Trump, and probably - depending on Mr. Mueller’s report - it is time for it. But our outlook must be broader. We are all Americans, and we have so much more in common with one another than we do with anyone else, both good and bad. Separation is not the way forward. Dr. King wisely pointed out that hate cannot be defeated by hate. I understand that leftists and right-wingers fear each other, and that this easily transforms itself into hate. But if they listened, they would see that they seek the same things, even if by different means. Separation is helpful only to politicians seeking election. Love and understanding is the best way forward.