Not long ago I spent several dozen hours researching the immigrant experience for those fleeing the Irish famine circa 1912. The details I learned were...godawful. Institutional cruelty and apathy built into the immigration process ground along like a relentless wheel, with the young, poor and ill being among those who would suffer most. Of course, the driving force was the current political mindset--the floods of immigrants and their promise of cheap labor were no longer wanted, and were actively being scapegoated by government and industry alike. I'd like to say I haven't seen this movie before, but all it takes is an afternoon at Ellis Island and the many documentaries to see the similarities. Thankfully, now as then human beings who transcended the "rules" managed to make a positive difference in the lives of some.
To put this matter into proper perspective it would be helpful to know exactly how many children are/have been processed by the US Border Patrol in order to gauge the severity of this situation. Responsible reporting would lay out the facts and draw conclusions and potential solutions from them. Instead these unfortunate deaths are being used to fan the narrative of how offensive it is that we are enforcing our border and requiring immigrants to enter our country legally.
9
How many children died on Christmas this year in the US? Was the healthcare system responsible? Are we saying that because these young children died in the US that they were denied care, denied adequate care? Would they have lived if they stayed in Mexico or their home country? All the comments and the inevitable urging by the NYTimes to blame the GOP because somehow it's their responsibility to make sure no one dies after walking hundreds of miles seems a bit outrageous to me. I'm thinking the father may own some of this, and most would agree if not so blinded by their hate for Trump, or Republicans, or border security, or hospital personnel?
12
There is no excuse for children dying in CBP custody. If the facilities are inadequate, then fix them or don't hold families there. Each child must be examined for possible illness by qualified personnel.
Much of the chaos has come from the Trump administration's constantly changing procedures. While the immigration system clearly needs adjusting, Mr. Trump's approach is just wrong.
2
Did anyone here read the story?
Hospital workers diagnosed Felipe with a cold and gave him Tylenol, but held him for observation after determining that he had a 103-degree fever. They released him with prescriptions for antibiotics and Ibuprofen that afternoon.
Felipe and his father were taken to a “temporary holding” facility, according to authorities, at a highway checkpoint, and border agents gave the child medication at about 5 p.m. Two hours later, he vomited, but his father declined medical assistance when Felipe appeared to be better. That account could not be corroborated by Felipe’s father.
And somehow the GOP or border patrol is responsible for his death?!
12
I am truly shocked by calloused comments which suggest that, since children have higher rates of mortality in Central America, or their parents shouldn’t have brought them here, it doesn’t matter if those children die in US custody.
No child has any control over the circumstances or lives into which they are born. In addition, our country’s policies helped pave the way for the dire circumstances now present in Central America, so we bear some responsibility. Who of us in similar life and death circumstances wouldn’t try to make this arduous journey?
No one wants open borders. We need common sense, comprehensive immigration and border policies. However, in the meantime, the negligent, uncaring treatment of these children at the hands of the Trump administration is not acceptable or consistent with how a civilized society should act.
1
I think the New York Times can have provided some statistics on the number of Central American children that die every day within Central America itself. The countries there have a high rate of infant mortality, higher than Mexico though lower than Haiti. That sort of research should be a natural companion to the sad stories of deaths at the border. Such research would fairly highlight the everyday conditions of these mostly very poor people rather than simply focusing on what the United States of America is doing wrong under President Trump. Where are these facts in this "Breaking Point" story? What are the true 'breaking points' for dying Central American children?
11
@marcoslk, No instead the blame is all upon the Border agents and the President. Never is there any responsibility by the parents of these children.
Wait for the autopsy results first.
9
Reading about the work of the US Dept of Agriculture, I was struck by the possibility that Guatemalan children could be lactose intolerant - that is, extremely sensitive to ingredients in rich American milk. Or something else they're not used to.
Just a thought.
2
How many children have died in this hideous rush to get to the purported safety of the US? This second death shows that there must be many more. All other government business should stop until this single issue, the treatment of children at the border, is resolved.
Maybe President Bone Spur didn't go to Mar a Lago for vacation because he can no longer show his face in public.
2
I'm horrified but not surprised by the callous and inhumane treatment of these children. What I am surprised at (and also horrified by) is the nonfeasance or malfeasance of the medical professionals at the border. A child with a "common cold" does not develop a fever of 103.
My hunch is that both children who died may have have Respiratory Syncytial Virus. It's sneaky, masquerades as a cold, but can be deadly if the child is undernourished or has underlying health conditions. It's an outrage that this appears to never have been considered or ruled out.
3
The number of migrants in Border Patrol custody is about to dramatically decline. Last week Mexico agreed to accept the return of all persons who cross the border illegally from Mexico into the United States. Now the United States can immediately return all illegal border crossers—including asylum seekers—back to Mexico regardless of their nationality. In other words, it can treat all illegal border crossers—as if they were citizens of Mexico.
This agreement, which is similar to one the United States has with Canada, will be much more effective than a border wall at stopping illegal immigration. Now migrants who cross the border illegally and apply for asylum when caught will no longer get to reside for years in the United States while their asylum applications are being processed. They will go straight back to Mexico.
The number of migrants in Border Patrol custody will decline dramatically. Instead of taking illegal border crossers to processing centers and detention centers, the Border Patrol will simply turn them over to Mexico.
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2018/12/20/secretary-nielsen-announces-historic-action-confront-illegal-immigration
8
All of the people entering this country illegally are poor. Many of them are sick and/or pregnant. Build the wall.
16
This is not the fault of ICE or CPB. These children are full of lice, fleas, and all other known viruses. They have never been vaccinated. They have been on a 1000 mile journey where they may not have eaten or drunk safe water. Who knows what parasites they acquired on the way.
Their parents are to blame for dragging their child on a 1000 miles journey in the mistaken belief it will make it easier to gain asylum.
We should not let these people enter the uS and if they do we should put them back over the border and tell them they must return with a health certificate for the child.
We must return to the Ellis Island approach where those who were ill with diseases like TB where put on the next boat back to their home country.
19
"change in procedures"? i guess a third or fourth death is required for a change in policy.
2
As anyone could have anticipated, the usual horde of immigrant-haters is here in force, claiming that anybody who seeks asylum is a criminal, deserves nothing and should be ruthlessly turned away, no matter how old, how young, how sick, how terrified.
The immigrant-haters claim that all they want is for those at the border to follow they law. Don't be fooled: the haters care as much for the rule of law as their president does-- not at all.
When asylum-seekers are gassed, the haters applaud. When a child dies in CBP custody, the haters cheer. When a boatload of immigrant sinks, the haters throw a party.
The haters (and their president), if they had the courage of their convictions, would arm themselves tomorrow and rush to the border to join their CBP heroes so they could shoot down every immigrant in sight till the barrels of their rifles melted.
4
@camorrista, This is exactly why we can not have an honest conversation about immigration today.
Your comment is over the top and extreme. Gassing?
Seriously? Calm down.
10
Why aren't the "pro-life" Republicans outraged at this? Isn't the US government, through its negligence, the moral equivalent of an abortionist?
4
Imagine… as a result of a no vote on the wall, which represents basically a basis point of one percent of the US budget. We get to witness the onslaught of immigrants illegally crossing our porous boarders 24/7. Amid these immigrants, are righteous family members, gang members, and drug cartel member’s aka drug smugglers all in search of democratic entitlements!
Imagine… if that’s not enough to make you shake your head wondering! The latest wake up call; is the New Years Eve News bulletins that Russian military wunderkinds are claiming access to hypersonic missiles. You have to wonder who might suffer the brunt of Russia’s socialist dreams, or the burden of sugarplums dancing in the heads of our elitist wunderkinds assignations with entitlement lovers.
Imagine… the hypocrisy of it all, when former members of the armed services aren’t being charged for breaking rules of engagement by chair borne wastrels. These same hypocritical wastrels have the gall to label those affected by their PC shutdown as non-essential. It’s almost an affront to the PC caste system in America.
Imagine… the semantics of it all, I mean think about it for a moment or two; who doesn’t have dreams of being a bureaucratic wunderkind aimlessly wandering the halls of congress, living on the government dole aka entitlement program while residing in a gated neighborhood or a walled compound like Hillary, Nancy and Obama.
3
Just a side question about the Customs & Border Patrol and ICE folk who have been charged with being the front line in all this chaos: aren't they all working without pay right now, until the government "reopens"? It seems doubly crazy that Mr Trump, who cares so much about 'border security,' would subject DHS & ICE workers to furloughs and delayed paychecks...
1
I hope the autopsy provides answers. Regardless of which side of the issue you are on, I'd like to challenge everyone to stop letting extreme emotions control your thinking. Your anger should be directed at the Congress and policy makers and landlords and employers who have created this mess. Try thinking rationally; stop accusing people who want responsible immigration reform of being racist, heartless or xenophobic. We are the only nation in the world who has this kind of chaos and anarchy at our borders. Its unsustainable and reckless to our economy, public health and safety, and natural resources.
It makes no sense to allow immigrants, legal or illegal, child or adult, to cross our borders without a medical and psychiatric check at minimum, a quarantine period (like Ellis Island had) to ensure they are not ill or carrying communicable diseases BEFORE they enter to avoid just this kind of tragedy and potential liability.
If you are truly compassionate, if you truly care about the health and well-being of immigrants AND American citizens, then you should want to ensure that everyone -- immigrants and citizens alike -- are protected. There are processes in place in EVERY nation in the world for asylum seekers and immigrants. We must start using common sense about this issue. We must have rule of law. We can't let billions of the world's poor in or become just like the nations they left behind.
44
@Misplaced Modifier I'll stop identifying you as a xenophobic racist when you stop spreading Trump's lies that those of us who want these barbaric crimes against humanity stopped NOW, support "open borders." I am a Democrat, and I do NOT support "open borders." I do support granting immediate citizenship to the Dreamers, creating a humane, fair guest worker program, providing the funds necessary to implement 21st century technology to assist the border patrol instead of a stupid wall that will do nothing to deter truly determined and desperate people from trying to enter the US illegally, and finally, giving appropriate funding to countries that our imperialistic policies stretching back over decades helped to destroy by installing repressive fascist regimes or deporting MS-13 gang members (Honduras, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Chile, Argentina, Iran...). I agree that we need to adhere to the "rule of law;" I wish your president would try that once in awhile instead of lying nonstop, every second of the day, creating solutions in search of an actual problem and spewing his hateful, toxic message 24/7. He makes my skin crawl.
16
@Anne K Lane
How typically Democrat?Liberal. If you do not agree with me you are xenophobic racist. Or just deplorable. No one is allowed an honest difference of opinion from your own.
17
@Anne K. Lane from Tuscon AZ
Being humanitarian and enforcing borders/immigration policies are not mutually exclusive. I understand that my comment hit a nerve, but your reply-- replete with insults and namecalling --perfectly illustrates my point. This nation is in chaos. Chaos thrives on anger. Anger prevents rational, critical thinking.
By allowing angry reactions to guide your thinking, you've created a false narrative about "people like me." Your idea of who I am doesn't exist. By placing me in your "enemy" box, you have closed off the part of your thinking that is needed to solve this problem.
I think Trump is a malignant sociopath, a criminal, and a menace to Democracy who may succeed in destroying America, unless people can direct anger where it belongs -- at the culprits of this criminal enterprise masquerading as "Republican." Mitch McConnell, Trump, the sychophantic grafters, the oligarchs and corporatocracy. These are the people you should be focused on. Not your fellow American citizen.
6
Once a child is placed under the custody of any branch of the US government we are responsible for their well-being. Knowing that these children have just completed a brutal journey of hundreds and hundreds of miles makes it obvious that they require an immediate comprehensive health assessment by a pediatrician/nurse practitioner who is rewarded for health outcomes rather than cost control. If a child dies of a treatable condition, Trump, Nielsen and the American people are culpable. We can chose to think there’s nothing we can do or we can accept Trump’s view that these brown people are coming to rob and rape us and who cares if their kids die in our custody or we can act as though we live in a democracy and demand that our government treat these children the way we want our children treated - with care and respect. Every child, regardless of their circumstances, deserves medical care, food, shelter, education, the freedom to play and love.
42
@Anita, being responsible and being at fault are two very different things, and no one knows if anyone died of a "treatable disease" when it isn't clear anyone knew what the disease was, or whether anyone knows even now.
And what is "obvious" to you in hindsight does not have to have been obvious to the first responders on scene.
You don't even know that it was the brutal journey that caused this. Did you read the article in this paper about the ebola epidemic in the great lakes region of DR Congo? What do those people deserve? 350+ have died without anywhere near the outrage, some of them were children, too. All they lack is someone to blame it on, I guess. Too bad they weren't Trump's fault, they'd be getting world-wide attention and activism.
7
Why aren’t these people subject to instantaneous deportation? Enough already! Our government’s sole obligation is to serve the interests of American citizens...and it is NOT in our interest to provide for the needs of illegal migrants who brazenly swarm across our sovereign borders with impunity and an air of entitlement. In fact, shut the whole system down until sanity and rule of law may be restored.
63
@Shenoa
Because they might vote for Democrats.
18
@Shenoa
A little history would help you to understand why these
so called " filthy", people are here in the first place .
The U.S has in fact destabilized many of the latin american gov's since the 1940's .These people are seeking refuge from circumstances that we U.S citizens ,own .
37
@Shenoa, I would suggest that it is in the interest of American citizens to treat everyone with the same respect and compassion you would hope for you or your own children, no matter where in the world you happened to be, or for what reason.
31
Once a person is taken into custody those who have taken control over them are responsible for their well being, health and safety. That is what the law requires and how civilized societies behave. Don't like it? Tough. When I read comments like Nielsen just made, blaming the death of children on those who follow the law are somehow "seeking open borders", I know I am reading the propaganda of blame shifting, right wing Fascist. Are these Fascist forces, now embedded in the US government, claiming we need a "closed border"? Are all flights and sea traffic to and from the US to be closed? Are we building a wall with Canada? The threat to our nation isn't coming from the poor abused peoples of central America. The threat to the US is coming from within.
3
Those who profit off warehousing poor, scared immigrant children have nothing on the puppy mills. Let them go!
3
Very sad.
Also sad: the Americans slain by illegal aliens; drunk driving illegal aliens on our roads; school districts and hospitals bankrupted by illegal aliens demanding services.
The father of this child should be in jail for criminal negligence. The fault is his.
14
Seeing as how my comment about the negligent treatment the 2 children who have now died received yesterday was slammed by "tax paying Americans" who blame the victims; I shall try again. When these children are taken "into custody" by the U.S. authorities; the least one would expect is for children be given a thorough exam before being sent back to the hell holes they are now confined to. I never suggested open borders as was expressed by some of these indignant "tax payers." It obviously touched a nerve in some. My point was,is,and will remain when the U.S. starts treating children like unwanted criminals; what does that say about the U.S. these days regarding the reference ,"That which you do to the least of my brothers; that you do unto me." Jesus challenge remains to this day.
2
Kids in the USA die of hunger and various diseases by the hundreds each day. Why don't you write about them instead of 2 on the border? I will answer it for you. You have an agenda and those 2 kids serve your agenda. You don't care one bit about children but those two is just what you have been waiting for. You could not have shown your true reason for existence any better!
13
Don't let conservatives wash their hands of these type of events. The gross and willful negligence of the Trump administration caused these kids to die. Conservatives voted for Trump knowing and hoping that he would disrupt 'normalcy', which included the normal functioning of systems that were set up to prevent avoidable deaths in custody.
1
It is hard for us in America to imagine how terrible the living conditions in the Latin America counties are that parents are willing to undertake an arduous and dangerous journey to bring their children to a place where they can have a better life.
Ms. Nielsen’s “blame the parents” defense as a response to the recent death’s of two young children while in custody of the US Broader Patrol is ignorant and sadistic. She espouses the philosophy of her boss, the president, and his faithful and hate-filled servant Stephen Miller.
Ms. Nielsen is soulless.
This event exemplifies Jeff Session's theory of deterrence, embraced by Donald Trump and his Evangelical enablers...
This poor boy's death is yet another reminder of the moral bankruptcy of President Trump and his administration. House Democrats should investigate this tragedy and prosecute whoever was negligent -- and that includes the DHS secretary.
Is it an "illegal" crossing? I thought that people who crossed the border to turn themselves in were seeking asylum, and that is legal. Every time a representative of the government and therefore the people uses this word erroneously should be immediately corrected.
I'm a boarded specialist in Emergency Medicine with 30 years of experience. One similar case comes to mind: An adolescent who had been seen 12hrs previouslyand with normal vital signs and nothing pointing to severe illness who now had obvious signs of heart and pulmonary failure caused by CAMERSA. a deadly. fast-moving. hard to treat bacterium. Death came soon.
3
As usual we have to wait for an horrible tragedy to happen first.
Human selfishness is immense.
1
Looks to me that addressing these problems would be a much better use of $5 billion than building a wall. We knew they were coming, knew how many there were, and had over a month to prepare...and did nothing but send the military to stand around at the border before the migrants arrived. What did anyone think was going to happen when thousands arrived at the border? Of course, it's increasingly obvious that there isn't much thinking going on in this administration.
1
It's human nature, some sort of avoidant psychology, either not to anticipate problems, or to know something might go wrong but do nothing to prepare. When Trump and his hench-people decided to detain children, they set themselves up for problems. I am of the opinion that the deaths of two children in custody shows not just a lack of planning but also a lack of human decency. The people on the ground trying to make such a thing work probably care very much. But the people on top do not care. Why am I taking time to say this? Because it cannot be said enough. These 'people' didn't care about brown babies before and they don't care now and it's on all of us. We let Trump get elected, which allowed a pack of hyenas to enter the fray.
2
As the child was taken to the hospital, medically evaluated, and given medication, I fail to see why this is "government" negligence. Why isn't this an issue of possible medical malpractice? Any child's death is tragic, but what else could the government have done? I would be looking at the medical facility which evaluated the poor child.
4
A recent article in the Washington Post described the kind of services offered by smugglers to South American migrants. The way they run their operations is very similar to travel agencies. Prices vary between 5,000 and 15,000 dollars depending on the size of the family, traveling solo is priced differently from traveling with children, itinerary chosen, expedited travel, and in some cases discounts may apply.
At the end of the road they expect to find an open border, free room and board, free medical care if necessary. Unless they travel in a caravan of hundreds or thousands, we do not know how many will show and when. But we must provide and be criticized if anything goes wrong.
Another unknown is how long this situation will be allowed to go on. The better we provide, the more will choose the costly, uncomfortable journey over the fight to save their home country.
10
They simply failed to prepare for the effects of their policies.
1
"Felipe was arrested with his father around 1 p.m. on Dec. 18." Felipe died Christmas Eve. He was 8 years old.
Donald Trump and Kirstjen Nielsen have ordered border police to arrest children. Some have died. Many have not seen their parents in months. Jesus was a refugee. No doubt ICE would have arrested and jailed Him, then deported Mary and Joseph.
The US is responsible for much of the trouble in Central America. The CIA engineered a coup in Guatemala in 1954 to protect the extensive land holdings of the United Fruit Company. Many of the Guatemalan military officers who tortured and murdered thousands of Guatemalan peasants in the past several decades were trained and armed by the US. The ghoulish comments of Nielsen and Trump continue that pattern. Some think Trump wants to be like Duterte and Erdogan. In some bad ways he already is like them.
4
If the Border Patrol had not taken custody of the Guatemalan child, the child would have died in the desert without medical attention. Once the child was in Border Patrol custody, the agents did the same thing they do when their own children get sick. On December 24, a Border Patrol agent noticed that the child seemed sick and took him along with his father to the Gerald Champion Regional Medical Center in Alamogordo, New Mexico.
The hospital diagnosed the child as suffering from a common cold but running a fever. It held the child 90 minutes for observation and then released the child from the hospital with prescriptions for amoxicillin and Ibuprofen.That evening the child became nausea and started vomiting. The Border Patrol sent the child back to the hospital for evaluation and treatment. The child died after midnight on December 25 in the hospital, not in the desert or a Border Patrol processing center. At least the child died with Border Patrol agents, doctors and nurses doing the best they could to save its life.
The mortality rate among U.S. children ages 1 to 19 is about 6.7 deaths per 10,000 kids. About 55,000 children die each year n the United States, an average of about 150 per day. Migrant children also get sick and die. The Guatemalan child was one of about 150 children who died on Christmas Eve.
9
Breaking point huh...a little dramatic. Based in the sheer number of people who have been processed, 2 people is well within the margins as tragic as it is.
5
I've crossed the U.S.-Mexican border several hundred times in my 68 years of life.
For the most part, Border Patrol and Customs and Border Protecion agents work in a culture of callousness, disdain and even deep dislike for those seeking entry into the U.S.
Even with U.S. passport in hand, I have been subjected to countless "secondary" searches of my vehicle.
Agents view immigrants as serious criminals. The inhumane treatment child immigrants must endure speaks volumes of how border authorities view them.
The heart of the problem is that agents are dealing with a population that is frightened, meek, submissive and highly unlikely to complain about mistreatment.
Yes, some of those who cross are criminals, but they are quite rare. And even they know better than to do anything other than passively submit to border cops' authority.
23
@Ricardo Chavira
Everyone who crosses the border illegally is a criminal. It's a misdemeanor under federal law.
7
@Ricardo Chavira
I've had similar experiences at the Canadian border when crossing back into the United States. Once, an agent yelled it at me, as though louder was clearer. He asked the purpose of my trip. I said I was returning home. He meant my trip in Canada. I'm always treated politely by Canadian and other border agents when I travel to other countries.
1
@Josh Hill Mr Chavira is crossing legally, as are most people at border crossings. That is his point. And a lawyer has told me it is not a criminal offense to cross the border illegally into America. It is a civil offense. Therefore such people are not criminals, which in any case is a word we use after people have been convicted.
3
Unbelievable that these parents are involving their children in what is at essence a criminal enterprise.
We must of course do what we can to try to get these children good care, but the real problem here is that economic immigrants are flooding our border.
Those who oppose actions to increase border security and penalties should ask themselves how many more children will die because of their "kindness."
19
To the commenters who seem to think that our borders and nation are being swamped with unprecedented hordes of immigrants, get a grip and go research the facts and data from non-partisan sources. Fact: visa overstayers as a source of illegal immigrants exceed those who cross at the borders. No wall will deal with that issue. Fact: although immigrants from Central America have increased, those from Mexico have decreased and the total number is down from a high in 2007. Fact: native-born Americans commit crimes at a much higher rate than do undocumented immigrants, according to the Cato Institute, a libertarian/conservative think tank. Fact: Illegal immigrants constitute approximately 3.5% of the US population, a percentage that has not been growing and has been stable.
The President and his Party do a major disservice when they spew falsehoods that inflame illogical fear of “the other.” Our country needs common sense immigration and border policies, but they should be determined based on fact, not out of hysterical propaganda that we need a “wall.”
12
Who should cover the malpractice premiums for the doctors that have to see these patients? And if a doctor loses a case through no fault of his/her own (and feverish children are always a risk) should they be held liable for the increased premiums for the rest of their lives. In some states the yearly malpractice premium is well over 200,000 per year. The other little girl's family is demanding 60 million dollars in compensation. Who should pay that? The doctors, the malpractice carriers, the government? Should the American people be billed a malpractice tax surcharge payable by everyone to provide medical care and support for these poor suffering people from Mexico and Central America? If we want open borders should not the American people vote on it and pay for it as well?
12
Who has ever suggested open borders?
1
People, especially children, that we take into custody simply because they are applying to come into the United States should be treated with respect, not as criminals, as Trump's administration does. By taking people into custody you accept responsibility for their well-being. These are people that have done physically demanding travel, possibly with little food and water, for days if not weeks or months. Then, we incarcerate them and make them sleep on the floor. That is not respectful. Previous administrations, both Republican and Democrat, did a better job than Trump. His true nature permeates his entire government. Neither he nor his staff is prepared for the responsibility of governing. They all seem to have the notion that they can occupy places of power, not think and just wing it. I have more respect for those people that are now incarcerated by Trump's administration than I do for Trump and his administrators.
6
Tragic, yes. Maybe our facilities are at a breaking point from 8 years of Obama quietly encouraging this type of mass migration. Let’s not forget the parents who dragged their young unhealthy children 2000 miles. All of a sudden we’re 100% responsible? I don’t think so..
18
Actually, every statistic shows that President Obama’s administration deported more illegal immigrants than Trump’s has.
5
Obama has not been president for two years. When he was president, his administration deported more people than any other. These deaths have occurred on the current administration’s watch, and it is solely responsible.
4
Wrong. Obama deported more people than George W. He just did not make children sleep on the concrete floor of a cold building with no blankets.
1
This is a gigantic humanitarian crisis that demands a radical solution, which consists of recognizing that drug consumption is not a legal issue but rather a medical and psychological one. In order to end the violence in Central America, which is forcing people to try to save their lives by moving north, all drugs should be legalized, as has happened in Portugal. I find it disgusting to read people complaining about tax payers having to pay for the medical treatment of refugees. These are the very people who never complain about the Pentagon budget. It should be remembered that this crisis is caused by Americans consuming cocaine coming from South America and that therefore the United States should accept responsibility for what is happening.
5
"The secretary placed the blame on an immigration system that she said rewarded parents for sending their children to cross the border alone and brought few consequences for parents who bring their children with them into the country."
That is a completely and outrageously false delusionary statement that should never have a place in American government.
Trump is explicitly responsible for these children as well as any fatalities occurring within Trump's concentration camps for children, currently imprisoning 13,000 child victims in Texas alone.
Trump produced this crisis and Trump should he held fully accountable for his numerous crimes against the very children of this world.
6
@bloggersvilleusa
Trump needs, desperately needs to excite his Base.
Tormenting brown people is exciting for these people.
His supporters are getting wealthy building prisons and are standing by ready to supply concrete for his wall. Generating hatred is really just priming the pump to keep the Trump Crime family in business.
6
It is so easy to get Americans to hand over their nation. Just pull their heart strings. It is a matter of time before the USA looks like just another third world country
18
I don't know if Ms Nielsen has children but one thing I do know that she has no heart. The thought of the way those unfortunate people are being treated is crippling. There is no reason or excuse for the entire process to be so extreme. We know why the majority of his entire Cabinet has either left and the rest are leeches who enjoy the "perks" of being in their position . They will not be proud to have served their country and I don't believe that history will be kind regarding their "service", if you can imagine that as service, when they only follow the commands of a deranged man. I am beyond feeling demoralized. It's pathetic that peoples' lives have less meaning than containment.
3
For Nielsen to place blame on parents for these tragedies is beyond the pale. Craven and disgusting. Nielsen should accept responsibility, but that kind of posturing comes from the top.
Nielsen is toast once Congress begins investigating this Administration’s immigration policy and hopefully the odious Stephen Miller will be taken down with her.
5
It is just sickening that she would have the gall to blame the parents and smugglers for her department's problem. I never heard of a child dying in Pres. Obama's ICE. The real question is: what is so different about this administration's attitude towards children? Seems straightforward to me: people adopt the attitude of those above them, they emulate they superiors. Pres. Trump can't talk about immigrants with respect or even as human beings, and those that work under him have adopted that attitude. I am so sorry that those children died in our country's custody, and I am sorry that our CIA destabilized literally all of Latin American. People immigrate most often because they need to, they have to. If you doubt my words, just do some history checking. Example: the worst massacre in El Salvadors civil war was funded by our government, and the average age of death was 2-6. The details were horrible; rape was found in many victims, regardless of age and whether they were dead or alive. It was a sickening, disgusting event we funded with our tax dollars. We have caused people to immigrate. We need to take responsibility for our actions, not blame innocent victims of our own policies. We need to live as christ lived: feed the hungry, help the poor, help the immigrant (jesus was an immigrant), listen to and love each other. Instead of blaming people, listen to why they have made the choices they made. We need to have love, not hate. Why is that so hard?
3
Donald clearly believes that people of color, and/or people who speak other languages which he can't speak, don't deserve to live in the USA. It wouldn't be so obvious if we didn't have a large country with a porous border just to the north of us. Why isn't he demanding that we build a wall to keep Canadians from getting into our country illegally? Could it be because most Canadians are White and speak English, or French or both?
2
What else do you expect in the only advanced and wealthy country on the planet NOT to offer universal health care for all of its population, the last chance your failed state had to reform national health care was in 1974 when President Nixon’s National Health Care Plan went far beyond the ACA but was rejected by the constant stream of Neanderthals that inhabit your congress.
3
It is simply absurd to think that America owes anything to whomever -- "child" or otherwise -- among the world's seven billion plus people who march onto our doorstep and try to elbow their way in.
15
Tens of thousands of immigrants flood our border, and in this case, the CBP apparently managed to perform a dozen welfare checks and get this sick child to the hospital not once but twice. Yet Pelosi and the incoming democrats already say it is unacceptable and will seek to blame US officials. Let the kangaroo court begin.
21
It’s why Australia has the policy it has. The message is clear, you will not get in. Keeps the traffic, and fatalities, down. It is the loose southern US border and the false promise of Democrats that pulls more children, and adults, to their deaths. Shameful and irresponsible, all to get votes. My God, the inhumanity!
15
Your country has hit rock bottom. Whatever may have been any predisposing factors, the delays in getting the children to a decent hospital are unconscionable. “Suffer the little children to come unto the United States” for suffer they surely will. Shame on you all.
2
You can bet whoever gave the order or stupedly allowed this sick child to be released from the hospital with a 103 degree fever, would have NEVER removed their own child from a hospital under similar circumstances.
Somebody's head should be rolling over this needless death!
4
“His father declined medical assistance.”
No doubt Trump-haters jumped straight to the comments section to decry the “inhumanity” of the GOP without bothering to read the article.
10
Dear AVR,
Did the father understand the language the question was asked in? Was he given accurate information about the child’s condition when he supposedly refused further treatment? He couldn’t have because the hospital didn’t bother to diagnose the cause of the fever. So as far as the father knew his son just had a cold.
An earlier comment by a nurse stated that the child was seen by “hospital personnel” who said the child had a cold even though they were aware the child also had a fever and looked “glassy eyed.” She said colds in children don’t produce fevers in kids. Recognizing this maybe, the child was kept for observation but just for a brief period. According to the nurse normal standard of care for a child with a fever of undetermined cause is observation in hospital for 24 hours because unlike adults young children can get extremely ill very suddenly. This child was given tylenol and sent back to custody which involved more travel and disruption. Who checked on this kid regularly? Why didn’t this child receive the normal standard of care - observation and further testing to diagnose the cause of his fever.
Sadly Trump, the Republican party and many Americans seem to think that healthcare is a priviledge that only people with money deserve. This kid is poor and born elsewhere so his death isn’t our problem goes the thinking.
Is this really who we are?
now imagine how competent the rest of the immigration process is.
2
What’s occurring at the border is, to my mind, a crime against humanity. Those who facilitate processes that lead to the death of innocent children are guilty of it.
2
Obviously these children were sick long before they illegally entered the US, so stop politicizing this by blaming Trumpa and ICE. Any blame should be leveled at the parents. Also, these children are from third world countries and it's highly unlikely they've been vaccinated or have ever seen a doctor
15
"Nancy Pelosi, the speaker-designate of the House, deemed the death of two children in United States custody “unconscionable” and called on Congress to investigate." This kind of knee-jerk reaction is exactly why she (and the democrat party)is mistrusted by many people who love this country. The two deaths are tragic, but hardly the resopnsibility of our agents at the border. Who knows how sick they were when they started? The whole thing is an irresponsible and mad trip the parents (if a parent at all) made with the children. But here are the democrats running down America.
15
It was stunning today watching Kirstjen Nielsen being questioned about immigrant children dying while incarcerated in U.S. detention centers. Asked to provide the exact number of children who had died on her watch, Ms. Nielsen was stumped......"I'll have to get back to you". This was apparently a real head-scratcher for her. as if she was being asked how many pair of shoes were in her closet, or how many XBoxes were sold by Best Buy on Christmas Eve. The number (and names!) of all children who have died in U.S. care should be burned into Kirstjen Nielsen's brain, should occupy her every waking thought. Is she a mother?
3
Most people who read the Bible seem to skim over the stories about how Abraham and Sara, and later Isaac and Rebecca, sought asylum in the kingdom of Gerar. Each couple lied on their asylum application, claiming to be brother and sister rather than husband and wife. Yet in both cases the heathen King Abimelech forgave them and even rewarded them for their contributions in farming and in increasing the cattle and sheep in Gerar. The same story of asylum seeking, forgiveness and inclusion is told not once, but twice. Now what could God possibly be telling us with that?
3
ah..."That chronology, provided by government officials, underscores how stretched the facilities and their staff are in handling the surge of Central American families reaching the southwest border, particularly minors."
right you are but the times in its more and more embarrassing (to genuine progressives, i/e those given rather to "the general Welfare" than special interest invective) abandonment of its "free press-dom" for the inflections of partisan advocacy, neglect to inform its readers of the "stretching" of endurance and heath of children by the adventures inflicted on them by the being dragged along on journeys of days, weeks, monthes, etc., under conditions no child should experience for even an hour...that there have been so few of the hundreds so badly treated by parents "parents" and opportunists is worth considering when the effort of under-stasfed srvice providers is judged by the drop-of-a-hat moralsts of the now tiresome new left....check the stats for kids trapped in our own inner cities of thise who are homeless in those same cities, los angeles, chicago and new york, for examples, all under tiresome left management....roosevelt ghost is crying lenin's is dancing.
2
Please NYT - Fact check and clarify everything this administration says.
Factcheck.org says there were 1.6 million southern border apprehensions in 2000, so 25k families in a month is unlikely to be a record.
When they exaggerate the numbers, it makes these events seem more like bad luck from statistics, rather than the tragic side effects of intentional policy changes.
3
Allowing this is pure evil. What kind of civilized government has turned their hearts so cold, callous and negligent to let children die who are seeking asylum and end up in internment camps?
The laws dealing with immigration and asylum seekers hasn't even been changed by Congress. This POTUS has just taken it upon himself to dictate to Homeland Security to deal so harshly. It's wrong. It's a disgrace on America and I hope Karma or the Almighty metes out their just due at some point for their cruelty.
1
This is unacceptable.
This administration is not representing the values that many good people in this country hold.
The deflection of blame by this administration is pathetic - these are children, and it is unacceptable the way these children died.
2
"The study, conducted by statisticians at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the University of Texas, found that roughly 7,100 children under the age of 18 were shot each year from 2012 to 2014. An average of 1,300 died of their injuries in a typical year."
So two minor illegals perish and it's a 'breaking point'. When is it a breaking point for the liberal press hen 3 United States children die on average daily from gun shots-and please-don't blame the inanimate gun.
Foreign reporters and illegal kids do not warrant the clamor we are being force fed.
10
@Davidexcellent
1
Another fake headline. Children die in hospitals "custody" everyday. Are hospitals responsible? But mind numbed democrats read this headline and blame the government a/k/a Trump. We are onto the fake headline trick.
14
This woman should be indicted for murder, let alone be allowed to continue in her job.
In the same way that Germany accepted responsibility for the atrocities committed by Hitler, USA must now acknowledge that it bears a responsibility for the negligent killing of latino children and this horrendous concentration camp-like separation of parents and children. It is not only about Trump, it is about a country that cannot stop this gross violation of human rights. Shame on America, the American institutions that allow this to happen and the Americans who elected a criminal in free elections, and do not seem able to stop him. The Guatemalan boy and girl who died will remain alive in the memory of those fighting for human rights and justice against Trump America. Let´s hope that the American people will also react against the barbaric political establishment that enables these atrocities.
1
The secretary's allegation that unnamed individuals or groups "seek open borders" should have been fact checked, then accompanied by a statement that this was a lie.
She's seeking to blame Trump's deadly policies on anyone and everyone but Trump and herself.
2
"suffer little children"
"Merry Christmas !" from the Trump Misadministation.
9
I am an RN with over 30 years practice. The most immediate problem in this little boy's case seems to me to be the poor care he received when first brought to the hospital. The article states that he was diagnosed with a common cold. Common colds generally do not cause fevers. Nor do they cause "glassy eyes" as described by the Border Patrol worker. In any case. It says that after determining that the child had a cold, and having giving him Tylenol they decided to kept him for observation. It was obviously a short observation - maybe a few hours from what I can figure out- as he was back at the Border Patrol station by the afternoon. During that time the Tylenol would likely have kicked in and temporarily brought down his fever.
So essentially the child was discharged with a FUO - a fever of unknown origin. The most appropriate thing to have done in this case would be to hold him for a 24 hour observation. I also wonder why they didn't give him a flu test.
The article refers to the people at the hospital making these decisions as "hospital workers". What were they exactly? MDs, PAs, NPs ? It doesn't
really matter as this is not a difficult case especially knowing where little
Felipe was going back to. He never should have been discharged so quickly from the hospital in the first place. If they'd just done a 24 hour hold things most likely would have turned out very differently.
19
The deaths of these children is sad but it is certainly premature to blame the government. These children come from a poor country with the potential for all sorts of illnesses. They had completed a difficult trek, one that would challenge someone in top condition. They were seen by medical staff at offsite medical facilities. There are approximately 14000 minors in custody. Given a history of poor conditions in their home country and a difficult trip this is a tragedy, not a crime. I am sorry that anyone lives a life that forces them on to the trip taken by these young children.
25
The parents made the decision to bring children to the US. They knew the perils for themselves but used their children as a cover card hoping to get expedited access. I feel sorry for these families that feel forced to make this journey but the political systems in their countries. But we have too many underserved children in this country whose parents can't get medical care for our own. They make too little money but too much. To receive medical care. They don't have the voices crying out for them. We know the answer is universal medical care for our own. Too many seniors deny themselves medical care and medicine because they have too little to spend . Rents are high, food stamps are marginal at best and underserved communities are subject to poor overpriced food. How long would it take for a febrile child have to wait to see a doctor? How much debt do these families have to incur debt just to have their children to be sent away because there was no health insurance. Seniors have to wait hours to be seen by a doctor in emergency rooms because they can't afford to see a doctor? I feel for these people , wish this world wasn't such a bad place to be sick for legal and illegal patients but with the republicans trying mightily to destroy ACA, where will the next victims come from
9
Deepest sympathies to those who have lost their young and beloved in this way… but am I missing something?
The adults could not / cannot be ignorant of the perils of such a journey.
Why are the children not left behind with extended family where they might enjoy even slightly more security even in their impoverished indigenous natal communities?
WHO promotes that children accompany adults as they risk this dangerous passage? And to what infanticidal purpose?
23
Why? For the same reason that affluent people in your beautiful town move to Shorewood Village or the Nacoma neighborhood. They want the best for their children. It is not that difficult to understand, is it?
2
What you are missing are the brutal conditions in Central American countries that have been subject to several generations of war and strife largely sponsored by the United States on behalf of corporate and cold war interests. The reason these people are enduring these terrible treks is because staying put is even more dangerous and hopeless. Leaving children behind in such conditions is unthinkable, just as jumping out of a burning building while leaving your children in it would be unthinkable.
6
Parents take this perilous journey when staying put poses greater risks. They are not taking on this incredibly difficult journey if there is a safe place in their home country.
3
It's equally possible that one or both children became ill from drinking contaminated water and/or eating contaminated food on their way to the United States. They would have also been exposed to bacteria, virus and environmental threats from unfamiliar sources. The stresses caused by an arduous journey are many, and guarantee that many children (and adults) are arriving at the border in debilitated conditions.
Border Patrol agents did not create the conditions in which they work, and they are helpless to change them. I can't imagine the chaos so many desperate people are enduring, but those whose job it is to help them have neither the means nor the mandate to create miracles.
I have no idea (nor does anyone here) what if any abuses have been committed. Speculation runs rampant, fueled by personal biases on every side. Yes, conditions are terrible, but that is the result of the policies of an agency whose inadequate facilities have been overwhelmed by a tide of humanity.
This will become a humanitarian crisis if drastic measures aren't put in place to gain control as soon as possible. Enough partisan posturing, enough rhetoric, enough empty-headed television demagogues distracting the American people. Time for those who lead, and those who will stand with them, to stand up and DO THEIR JOBS.
16
@Rush. Finally, a dispassionate and practical comment. Thanks!
The question is whether this "policy" by the trump administration is a moral one. It is not in my estimation. We have multiple examples of rationalizations by the government and the American public of incarcerating people, including children, under the guise of "protecting" our country. Think of the internment in WWII.
We have lost our way with this policy due to inaction by Congress (specically republicans) on sensible immigration reform. We are better than this.
9
Children processed through the privatized stone-cold American prison system. What could go wrong?
14
I agree. And I seriously encourage you to go there and bring a few of those children home with you.
10
I fail to see why the U.S. Border Patrol should be held responsible for taking care of people and their children who enter our country of their own free will without the ability to support themselves. The families of these children should be thankful that they get such medical attention at taxpayer expense when they've willfully chosen to enter the country under such conditions, in many cases illegally. Our border patrol personnel don't deserve to be held responsible for the health of random people who violate U.S. borders.
The problem needs to be solved, not through cynical declarations of moral outrage and more appropriation of taxpayer money, but with practical solutions that get to the core of the problem. For instance, the homicide and poverty in Mexico and South America, some of which, admittedly, was caused by U.S. political and economic interests. That's where the real problems are.
78
@Jason Yes, you do, indeed, "fail to see."
16
@Jason
Let me make this very clear to you!
The responsibility of the prison system is the safety of its inmates
That is immutable and upheld in all wrongful injury cases
the child died in custody, end of story
it's the same as if a terrorist mass murderer died in jail via negligence, its the prisons fault no matter how heinous the individual
now for a child?
where is your sense of humanity and decency!!
20
most crimes are committed voluntarily. yet, when the perpetrator guess to prison he/she becomes a warden of the state, and the state is responsible for their wellbeing.
8
I'm sorry, but until we know what the illness is and what the cause of death is for these two children, articles like this one are largely speculative by persons with no medical training and a lot of journalistic desire to find a wrongdoer. For instance, the following statement:
"It is not clear whether his health deteriorated because of neglect by personnel in the facilities, the perilous journey, or a combination of these factors."
is not even close to being an exhaustive list of the various factors, unless you are lumping everything that happened to these children before they arrive as part of the "perilous journey" and making everything that happened afterward "neglect by personnel" which is perhaps a criminal charge.
Neither people like Kirstjen Nielsen, claiming that it is all because the children were exposed needlessly to danger, nor any of the Trump administration detractors, claiming that it is all because of neglect, are doing anything but advocating for their side of a divisive issue, and your reporting, as if these are the only ways to see this, is presenting a false dichotomy.
I'm glad the CDC is on their way and screenings will be upgraded. Maybe between the two of those measures, we'll find out what's really happening. Until then, this isn't investigative reporting, or informing the people, it's rumor mongering.
12
It’s sad when a child dies, but it just might be the case that this child was horribly treated by a brutal and uncaring system that seems not be managed and is now churning out excuses for the children that die in their care rather than actually caring.
1
This article is ICE, Border Patrol and Homeland Security telling us straight up that they don't have enough money to do their jobs. And now, thanks to Trump, they have no money at all. An overwhelming majority of Americans voted Democrat in November. When Trump says "The Democrats" do this or "The Democrats" do that, what he really means by "Democrats" is The American People. Trump is blaming The American People for his shutdown, telling us that we support "open borders" and don't care about border security. He refuses to provide funding for border security, then he turns around and blames us. He blames America for his mistakes. And his army of online supporters, nearly all of them foreigners from countries that hate America, are right there with him attacking the American People. Why do we permit Trump to remain in the White House where he makes our borders weaker, threatens our security, and wages war against America? He demands $5 billion for a velvet curtain, knowing that he needs twenty times that amount to build any kind of barrier no matter how ineffective, and even if he got his way he'd keep on starving us of the money we actually need to do improve our border security in any way that's actually useful. But Nielsen's response tells us everything we need to know about Trump's real plan, and what a brilliant plan it is: soon Guatemalans will stop coming here, because they'll realize that living in America is no better than living in Guatemala.
6
The iceboxes always sounded like torture. Earlier reports said that immigrants were not provided with medical help so that men with wounds were not treated and pregnant women suffered miscarriages.
With children, it is even worse. It sounds like ICE did try in this case and probably others. However, the system is not set up to handle medical emergencies.
Beyond that, with Nielsen still blaming the families themselves, Trump and the Trump GOP beside themselves with animus towards immigrants, and no attempt to solve the real problem at its source -- unstable and unsafe countries in Central America -- this tragedy will continue.
As has been suggested before, a Marshall Plan for the Central American countries to improve conditions so that the refugees do not have to flee would be far better and probably cheaper.
It is beyond simplistic to think a wall will do any good.
3
This is a very sad case but emotions are not a substitute for a rational policy. Exploitation of the deaths of children to score a political point is ubiquitous on the right and the left, with the right-wingers yelling about “slaughtered babies” to curtail women’s rights and left-wingers demagoguing “babies in cages” to advocate open borders. Migrants have to be treated decently, given medical care, and promptly sent back to their own countries where they can provide a better future for their children by fighting for economic reforms, governmental transparency and end to gang violence.
11
"This is a very sad case but emotions are not a substitute for a rational policy."
On a purely rational basis, using pure reason, untempered by any emotion. one might propose simply killing them all as soon as they cross the border.
It's our tender human emotions that keep us from doing horrible evil things like that.
Reason only values itself, and does not know what evil is.
1
@Mor No One is asking or promoting open borders. That is a canard to bolster Trump's failing administration - Bigly.
In addition, after we have ended exploitation of Latin and Central America, do we not owe them investment and support, not 5Billion for a so-called wall? We are complicit in bringing about the conditions that foster continued migration. Where is our moral compass as a country and intelligence for a long-range plan? I am not a naive citizen, simply a thoughtful, outraged one.
To see these things keep happening speaks to the cruelty of this Administration. This is evil. The laws have not been changed by the Congress dealing with asylum seekers and immigration. This POTUS who suffers a severe lack of compassion and empathy takes it upon himself to handle peoples lives in this callous manner. When a supposed civilized government takes immigrants and asylum seekers into custody, they assume responsibility for their lives and their well being. Especially children! To keep children in these internment camps is just so awful, it's hard to believe this is America. It's not the America I grew up in. At least in WWII when the Japanese were interned families were kept together, and it wasn't right even at that, and still exists as a blight on America. I remember when I first learned of that time, when I was a child, it was hard for me to believe it happened in America. I recall being assured by my parents and teachers that it would never happen again in America. It had learned its lesson, but here we are again! It is stunning. I hope that Karma, the Almighty, or the long arc of Justice metes out to them who have caused this and supported it, enabled it catches up to them and metes out their just desserts.
5
It's either the criminal negligent BP or abusive parents dragging their child 2K miles. Or it could be a pre-existing condition; I can't imagine this poor child had access to high quality medical care at home. Or it's Trump's fault. Because the Obama administration immediately flew kids to Hopkins, CHOP, or Mayo, right? Both side have their prop now.
9
I can foresee the fur flying re my comment, if it reaches print, but it's noteworthy that both children were traveling with fathers, not mothers. Less attentive? Less well-tuned? Less willing to be bothered? Why did the most recent deceased's father refuse further medical attention when offered?
Until postmortems are performed, there is no way to know COD. It is way too premature to come to conclusions.
Would most(any) of the commentators here be willing to take these children in, I wonder?
13
You're right. The fur is flying at your comment. Why on earth would you suggest that fathers are somehow less caring or less concerned about their child's welfare? It's hard to accept someone really believes this benighted notion.
Of all the possible concerns that could and should be raised about this tragedy - not only a child's death, but the existing approach to managing matters of immigration - this is the least relevant, and perhaps most inane consideration.
I'm a father. Most fathers I know would do anything - anything at all - to protect their children. To suggest this instinctual concern is either lacking in men, or perhaps men with brown skin, is nothing short of ignorance.
I can't imagine you made this point as some tongue in cheek comment purely to elicit responses. I sincerely hope you'll issue a retraction acknowledging that you didn't really mean to imply that fathers care less about their children than mothers.
1
As horrible as it is, it's not the awful tragedy of these two dead children that troubles me most; it is the nearly 12,800 immigrant children who are still being detained by the U.S. government today.
2
If the child’s father took him along while following the Grateful Dead, and the child got sick and died, the father would be justly jailed. This is no different, except the father wanted to illegally enter our country.
15
If you forcibly separate a child from its parent, you, per force, and by basic decency, assume all the responsibilities of the parents of the child. At the top of the list of responsibilities is seeing that a sick child receives proper medical care.
It’s getting darker and darker.
5
@Ralph Averill: the child was sent to a hospital.
The HOSPITAL released the child, with proper meds.
I am not sure what anyone could possibly do beyond taking a sick child TO THE HOSPITAL.
2
A lot of people tried to keep that child alive and yet many of the comments are full of blame aimed at those who tried to help.
To these commenters I suggest: "learn medicine, scrub up, and go to the border".
10
I am a Pediatric Hospitalist. It is extremely rare for a child to be evaluated in an ER, then discharged, then to die within hours. That should never happen. There is a strong chance that this is a case of emergency room negligence (read: malpractice). I’d hate to be the ER doc who sent this child home. Opps, not “home” but back to the shelter.
96
@Marcus
I am sure that this family will get legal representation and this could end up transforming their lives for the better. They are coming to the USA for a better life and our legal system is part of it. From the perspective of an ER doc in an area with 50% undocumented people the nightmare scenario is four or five hot Hispanic kids with parents that don't speak English or Spanish that need a full workup.....and missing something. It is easy to point fingers. Of course the care is free to them and covered by the government....
6
AS, did you really just suggest that the dead child’s family will be able to successfully sue the US government, win a large monetary settlement and “be better off.”
So as you see it, having a child die while incarcerated is a lucky break?
Would it be a lucky break if it was your child? Would you be willing to walk a thousand miles with your child for a minimum wage job doing work that no one else will do?
9
It's always sad when a child dies. However, is it possible that these children had pre-existing conditions that were exacerbated by the grueling trip to reach our border. I most certainly would not blame our government.
67
@Sari Confusing note. Seems like some curiosity. Nope.
1
@Sari: Is there anything for which you would hold "our" government responsible? They had this little boy for almost a week, shuttled him around among distant holding facilities made for adults long after starting their complaints about having to deal with unusual numbers of children, and in spite of a 103 degree temperature sent him back to the holding facility. Nope, no blame there. If he, a small child, died, it's his fault. Even if we were to take some other commenters' line that it was his father's fault for bringing him across the border in the first place, he was in US custody -- for almost a week -- when he died.
But obviously "our" government has nothing to do with it.
10
This is terrifying, inhumane rationalization.
8
I wonder why the child was not given anti-virals for flu and hospitalized. With a 103 fever I would think that a child would not be sent back to the poor conditions of the holding facility.
30
A highway checkpoint even.
@Toula2 My grandson was brought to the ER with a 105 temp. He was released as his vitals (except for the fever) were okay. Went to pediatrician next day and they said he had the flu and gave him meds. An ER doesn't admit unless there is something they can do. Did he get fluids? Don't know, but dehydration is simple to diagnose. Was there another underlying issue? Guess we'll have to wait to see, but hospitals don't just keep people because their home is less than adequate.
2
If two children had died in the custody of ANY residential facility in this country the facility would be closed and the administrators would be facing criminal charges.
19
@E Bennet
After 11 American children died at a rehabilitation center in NJ, the owners haven't missed one check of profit and it's business as usual there. Your point, please ?
11
This article misses a fundamental problem with "custodial deaths." The Eighth Amendment to the United States prohibits cruel and unusual punishment imposed upon people in custody. This prohibition exists irrespective of whether the person in custody is a citizen of this country or not.
If a person is ill, when brought into custody, the government must provide adequate medical care. An indifference or policy of depriving adequate medical care violates the Eighth Amendment.
I would hope future articles focus on custodial deaths as a violation of the Eighth Amendment.
30
@Ben Dear Ben. It was abundantly clear from this article and similar articles that the father was to blame for putting the child through such an ordeal. Children are more likely to die after days with no food and water because they have less extra body mass. While this type of situation is now popular in the media, it is not new or unique. In the early 2000's the USCBP arrested 2000 people *every day* in the Arizona section. This is why private aid groups have water stations in the desert.
Our government is not magic, we can't fix every broken person brought to our doorstep.
11
Once the child was in US custody, he became the responsibility of the people holding him. They were the ones who held all the power once they had him. When you have power, you are responsible for how you use it.
2
@John There were jugs of water at the border, just like the water stations you mentioned in the desert. Hundreds of water jugs. And, last week, Border Patrol poured out all the water in those jugs. And it was televised. I was absolutely horrified. One agent was smiling,as he poured the water out, and another was gleefully kicking the water out of another jug,etc. Would they have done that to their own families? I would think not. Therefore,it would also seem that men,women and children who have brown skin are not deserving of water.
2
after no child deaths during the Obama administration, after multiple deaths and the spread of illnesses during this trump administration, absence of humane facilities and personnel for the added imprisonment ordered by trump, there is no rush to determine the cause of death and stop the spread of disease possibly caused by the imprisonment conditions; the only rush is to build up armed military, build a wall, and prevent punishment of people including trump who continue to illegally exploit illegal immigrants.
18
@Howard64 By what stretch of the imagination do you think that there were no child deaths at the border during the Obama administration? There have always been deaths, usually in the middle of the desert.
12
@John try reading the article.
1
@Howard64 Hi Howard, I consulted with the Border Patrol in the 2000's.
1
How can anyone be healthy and sane when sleeping in the floor with the lights on and a Mylar “blanket” for comfort? Dreadful conditions and dreadful people for devising the system. Seeing rows of people on benches handed cereal bars is appalling. These are people - many with family in the US. The family pet gets better treatment. Reunite these kids with family and friends.
34
@Barbarra If the conditions are so bad, why not insist they stay in Mexico or one of the countries they walked through? Why is it just okay to come to the US when they are not refugees? What parent puts their child in this kind of harms way? No, we cannot just release them to people in the US. There will be millions more that try to come, and you know it. Perhaps you think that is a good idea, but we are a sovereign country and our desire to help is backfiring.
2
Not one individual who has written letters concerning the death of the child from Guatemala knows what his medical history was if indeed he had one. Was he medically fragile before the impossible journey he did not ask to take? Now we have a cadre of posturing politicians blaming and vilifying those who are certainly not evil. The death of a child, any child, is sad and tragic but in this case it is even more so because it has become a convenient political cudgel Seemingly healthy children raised by caring parents in the most comfortable homes die in the United States even after receiving expert and timely medical care. Once again, we cannot judge until we know every last thing about the child, his past, his care and his state of health when he left his country.
61
@LAM
It seems to me that the delay in getting help, the return of a sick child to a rather bleak facility, and no recognition that he needed IV assistance, as in hydration, are all criminal offenses. Yes, you're right. Perhaps he was already medically fragile and perhaps the journey was entirely destructive. However, we do not know that these were the cases. We know only that his father wanted the child to come to the United States and here the child died. So we are accountable.
1
Hope someone is keeping track of the costs being racked up to administer Trump’s aggressive border policies - including court costs and legal settlements over debacles like this, funded by taxpayers. Surely a humanitarian approach would be less costly
- and, well, more humane.
20
@Muelling Things Over
If the parent and child were released immediately and allowed to travel anywhere they wanted the kid would still have died. The ER visit would have been somewhere else if it even occurred. The liability risk would be carried by the malpractice carrier for the hospital or doctor and the prior death led to a 60 million dollar demand by the lawyers. Would you want to take care of these children with that sort of risk hanging over you?
4
What have we turned in to? I recall a Federal Judge's order this summer to release children held in detention centers; what happened?
We have turned untold numbers of children into orphans; what will we do with them? We won't send them back; we've deported some of their parents; some of their parents are being held; god-knows-where in facilities throughout the nation...
Has our judicial system become meaningless? What Have We Turned Into?
11
That was for children separated from parents and detained. Our country has detained children with their parents for quite some time now. Babyjails are great money makers
1
Will the new procedures include parents not endangering their children and not involving them in the criminal act of trying to enter our country illegally?
This is a parenting problem, not an immigration problem.
And let’s build the wall.
35
Dear oh dear. All very easy to say from the comfort of a secure environment.
2
@BC And you have a cold and cruel heart as most Trump supporters do. When a supposed civilized government takes people into custody, they assume the responsibility for the care, the life and well being of those persons. Especially children. You have no idea what this child's parents were fleeing from and you don't care to know. How sad.
I recall as a child learning about the internment of Japanese American citizens in WWII. I very stunned to learn of that. At least they did keep the families together, although in poor conditions, scary conditions, within fenced walls, with armed guards all around and few belongings. I recall my parents and teachers telling me this would never happen in America again. Yet, here we are. It's even worse, because the children are being taken away from parents, and kept in despicable conditions for children and their well being is not even cared for. These kids are terrified of what their future will be. And this no good example for American kids to see either. There will be more abuse and damage done, bet your bottom dollar. May justice, karma meet up with all who have caused this and supported it.
1
@BC not a fan of a 5 billion dollar wall. However, I would think half that amount could be used to protect our borders with all the technology available. Every picture I see shows illegal immigrants climbing the existing walls - not so effective!
1
"16 million American kids struggle with hunger each year. An estimated 48.8 million Americans , including 16.2 million children, live in households that lack the means to get enough nutritious food on a regular basis. As a result, about 1 in 5 children go hungry at some point during the year."
Can we please take care of THIS before we take care of THAT!
65
@Aaron
How about a truly novel idea .let's not spend over 60% on a military that by the way cannot account for trillions
and let's not give tax breaks to people that buy back stock in order to enrich themselves at the expense of all of us.
Now there's a plan that will never happen .
33
@Aaron, we would love to see poor and at-risk American children provided for and taken care of, but the Republicans won’t allow it. Funding and programs for poor families is called “welfare “ and apparently is BAD. Funding to support farmers while their soy beans rot in silos is called “subsidy” and is GOOD.
Poor people must be punished; business must be supported. Never mind that our population is growing unhealthier and less educated by the decade.
8
So we not only have an incompetent president but the people guarding the immigrants at the border seem not to be able to do there job.
Well at least it starts at the top.
5
These kids are not just "minors", as the Administration prefers to call them; they are human children, and their deaths should not be perceived as an "embarrassment" to the Administration. These deaths are criminal and tragic.
15
This is an organization that separated families at the border, then lost track of the kids. There may have been more deaths, but CBP doesn't know, because they can't account for the children. Now kids are dying in their custody. Perhaps if we held the head of CBP criminally liable it would inspire greater efforts to do their job?
7
Another reason to build the wall.
22
M, a wall would do nothing to prevent this. Nothing at all. These people are presenting themselves at ports of entry to apply for legal asylum. They are not eluding authorities.
1
False! They were offered asylum in Mexico, but they refused.
6
How can she say these words and still feel human? Appalling.
9
Maybe it's time to stop being the world's Emergency Room. Not to mention the world's welfare agency.
48
This is funny to read, given how many Americans travel nowadays to foreign countries like Mexico and India seeking cheaper and better medical care.
3
@Patricia - Your comment actually supports bijom's above. So you don't think it's a problem that U.S. citizens apparently find medical care in the U.S. to be so prohibitively expensive that it has created this kind of medical "tourism"?
1
The deaths of two innocent children brought to the USA for protection is abominable. The treatment that these children received and the ones still in cages is unacceptable. It is time for Congress to do something to change what is happening to individuals being held in this country and force the President to realize that he is dealing with human beings.
8
Kirstjen M. Nielsen, the secretary of homeland security, this cold hearted harpy, should be brought up on charges of crimes against humanity. Also charge her useless, uncaring boss, Donald Trump, another uncaring and totally useless excuse for a human being.
This country is sinking daily into the Trump filth. We are so much better than this.
Stop this insanity, now.
13
As long as we are living in the world of throwing around false equivalences: what’s the greater evil, crossing the border to escape an impossible situation or this? What’s the greater crime?
10
Here's hoping that our elected policiticians will figure out a way to work across the aisle on immigration policy, instead of grandstanding and headline-grabbing. A New Year's wish!
8
This is all part and parcel of the incompetence from above.
10
Zero tolerance policy? I have zero tolerance for “man’s inhumanity to man.” As the daughter of woman who was a hidden child during the Holocaust, who came to the United States age of 10, imagining these children under torturous conditions is an anathema. I don’t want to say, “never again.” I want to know that this cruelty will be terminated immediately.
43
In a normal administration, Ms. Nielsen would currently be unemployed.
20
My God what has our nation become?
12
Germany, in the Thirties, started out with similar situations. That's something to seriously think about. Yes, it can happen here, also.
18
@Doremus Jessup No it did not. This glib ignorance of history is insulting to me, granddaughter of Holocaust survivors. My grandmother saw her baby cousins dispatched with the bullet to the head and thrown into a ditch with their mothers. You are comparing that to the death of a child in medical care, however inadequate? And while it did not start with wholesale genocide in Germany, it did start with the persecution of German citizens (yes, Jews were citizens) and with the deliberate killing of sick German children in Aktion T-14. Educate yourself before you cheapen other people’s tragedies to score a political point.
5
The people who support this immigration debacle need to be named, shamed and jailed for knowingly inflicting human cruelty on innocent, helpless, desperate migrants. A pox on all you Stephen Miller types.......45 included. This makes me ashamed of my gov't. I am not ashamed to be American, but horrified that my fellow citizen's harbor so much hatred toward people who cannot defend themselves. Real brave, eh? Christian, eh? Don't think so.
24
Your system is disgusting. That the USA is involved in it is revolting. Those who enable or who tacitly let this continue should be ashamed of themselves.
12
Weekly we watch African immigrants drown while heading north across the Mediterranean, this not a tragedy unique to USA.
31
I don't recall reading about France opening its borders to ths migrants crossing the Mediterranean. What is Macron doing to save the migrants crossing the Mediterranean Sea?
Please share what France is doing.
3
So it seems that a common cold is a little too complicated for the US government to handle.
Hello! The kid is sent in for glossed eyes and is found with a fever . . . nobody thought to workup meningitis? dehydration?
Hello!! The kid comes with cold symptoms and a fever in FLU SEASON. Nobody checks or treats for flu?
Hello!! Kid is diagnosed with a viral sickness, a cold, and is treated for a bacterial illness with antibiotics. This made sense to some doctor?
Hello!! The kid is sick enough to observe. And the doctors thought that 90 min with no repeat temperature and no treatment was long enough to be assured that he was stable? If you were concerned enough to observe in the first place . . . come on guys.
I can't think of any more ways to screw up worse if I wanted to.
13
@harry To paraphrase the police chief in the movie Fargo, not the best medical work by the hospital. The government may bear lots of blame, but the bad medical calls weren't by the government.
5
No room at the Inn.
21
@Toms Quillor
Absolutely. Sometimes I wish I'd made other choices in life and had room to care for some of these children. Unfortunately, I didn't and I don't. But, believe me, I bet there are myriad ways to see that these children aren't treated so callously. Once the DHS has some better system of keeping track of these children, let them spend some time in less depressing conditions.
No room at the inn? Indeed. We have rooms aplenty. Put bunk beds in the Lincoln bedroom and make four or six of them comfortable? Now that would make us better people and set an example.
This child's death was probably preventable, but the details are murky. I think Trump's attitude has created a sense of desperation in people living in dangerous communities south of the border.
If Trump stops talking about these people as crminals, if he stops talking about a massive wall, he might actually stem the tide of people fleeing northward. They might feel less trapped by the worst American president we've ever known.
16
DHS killed two kids in three weeks. This is not America. Dems need to thoroughly investigate and prosecute the guilty; starting at the top. Trump and Nielsen need to be held accountable. Ray Sipe
28
@Ray Sipe
Oh please. DHS did NOT kill anyone. Do you know who needs to be held accountable? The kids’ PARENTS!...the people who dragged their children across multiple countries with the intention of illegally flinging themselves across our sovereign, though unfortunately porous, borders....using their own children to commit immigration fraud. Despicable.
52
Amen, Ray. People absolutely should lose their Jobs, starting with that Eva Braun clone, Kirstjen Nielsen. A true Deplorable.
21
and the parents decided to bring their children on this trecherous journey because why?? because they faced crippling poverty, oppressive crime and corruption, and zero opportunities to get ahead in life...if you were a parent faced with a similar situation what would you do??
16
The deaths of the two children in American custody is an....a atrocity!
Trump is pure evil.
31
Whaaaa? We weren't doing this already with these children after al we know they've been through/ Shame. This is on you, Mr. Trump--your ideology, your edict, your hard heartedness.
18
I am sure the blood of these childresn death is on DHS and GOP !
Sure I cannot support walking across borders but that does not mean kids are mistreated and maligned and let die on US soil.
2020 is coming.. please citizens get all your voter IDs in shape we will need it .
18
So the father declined further medical care for the young boy.....and somehow this is the fault of the US government? How?
68
@KW
Apparently you haven’t spent time in the ER in the good old U S. He could see that his child wasn’t getting any better. The medical staff probably didn’t speak his language.
Yes it is our fault because when you know better you do better and in this case the ignorant medical staff was on duty,
10
@KW Well, border patrol claimed the father declined further medical care...and they certainly have no reason to lie...
4
Get it? Health and Human Services? Pretty ironic, isn’t it? They can’t provide health or human service to poor children from another country because the President of this country does not care if they’re deceased?
This is the United States of America. And this country cannot even keep small children safe? This country cannot even keep children alive?
I have been a nurse for many years, in numerous healthcare settings. These incidences, the deaths of two small children, is deplorable.
I don’t care if a child is from another planet, or another country - there is absolutely no excuse these two kids have lost their lives in one of the most advanced countries of the world!
The administration of this land could never look more evil and cruel! Shame, shame, shame! Inexcusable! Congress - you are as responsible as this president, Donald Trump. We are paying your salaries. Own up and do something!
49
Children dying in Custody while Donald Trump behaving like a headless chicken.
He should be the one behind bars.
29
The fetid conditions under which the migrants and are being held in detention centers are ripe for contagious diseases to run rampant.
The Trump administration probably will see these deaths as an easy way to get rid of immigrants they refuse to admit into our country. Their hands will be clean after all it will be disease that killed the immigrants.
9
Sometimes in your gut you know something is wrong this is one of those times. Separating children away from their families is wrong. The President wants a wall and I think it’s time to give it to him. The only condition demanded by the Democrats would be that all the families are reunited, every last one. A very humane solution that he would refuse at his peril. The wall would never be built anyway.
5
It's sad that two children died but the ultimate blame lies with their parents, not the US Government.
69
@Mike
The conditions under which these people are held are shameful and cruel. We cannot deny that, and we cannot deny that in a democracy, we the people are responsible for the actions of our government. The death of these children is a black mark on all of us.
This doesn't mean that we ought to open our borders to all comers, but it means that we need coherent policies. E-verify must be made mandatory in order to deter illegal immigration, and employers who hire undocumented workers must be made to pay fines heavy enough to discourage the practice. How can you expect people to stop trying to come here when so many businesses including the Trump Resorts hire undocumented workers?
24
@Mike
The moment we took the children from their parents their welfare became our responsibility. Period.
9
@Mike, it's way too soon to apportion blame when we don't have a cause of death in either case.
5
Allergic reaction to amoxicillin?
2
Which raises the question: why was a child who was diagnosed with a cold (a viral illness) given antibiotics in the first place?
19
@Robert, it's true – my wife has that allergy to all penicillin derivatives, wears a health alert tag.
1
@Robert
A fever of 103 ? flu ? I have no clue but i think he should have stayed and been observed in hospital .
5
I don't understand why so many in America don't understand how good healthcare for all citizens and immigrant or refugee is proper and necessary in a civilized country!
When one considers, the homeless, the addicted, the mentally ill and people who arrive at the borders from anywhere, we should be giving them the best healthcare. If they aren't cared for, they could be sitting right next to a wealthy person's healthy little grandchild (perhaps in an ER waiting room) and could pass TB or HP or anything else onto them easily.
It's a selfish approach I've always used to describe the need of healthy communities, but I do it out of desperation to try to make the indifferent realize that every single person deserves and needs healthcare and to live.
6
This isn't a national security problem, it's a humanitarian crisis, and we have the wrong agencies through DHS handling it. The need support from HHS, and other groups like foster care, and the Red Cross to support them. Why they're not is beyond comprehension. Stubbornness, incompetence, ignorance, or all, it's just shameful.
This is where the Democrats need to start their investigations when they take control of the House next month.
123
@cherrylog754
The more the Dems "investigate", the more Americans will become more and more fed up with the entire notion of America somehow having any responsibility for non-Americans who think they have a right to simply crash the gates and move in at will.
6
Thank you. This is the ONLY article I've found where someone even CARED if they were doing an autopsy, which is the only way to find out what actually killed the boy. Noone else mentioned the subject.
16
As a peace officer for 27 years who was the manager of our county’s juvenile hall, I’m stunned by what I see as this government agency’s criminal negligence.
Laws vary in the smaller details, but once someone is in your custody and is not free to go, that person and his or her medical care is your responsibility. This is especially true of children in your custody. Further, you have a moral, if not legal, obligation to have everyone who comes into your custody examined by a qualified medical professional within 48 hours to assess that person’s health.
That two small children died because of lack of proper care is inexcusable, if not outright criminal. It’s no coincidence that this is happening under the present administration, which is, in my opinion, headed up by a sociopath who also suffers from a narcissistic character disorder.
253
@Mike, of the two children, only one was in custody as per your limits. The other was not. An investigation may eventually decide there is culpability, but without even a cause of death, I think you are jumping the gun.
7
@ondelette
as a doctor, medical expert, chair of the legal defense committee at a major teaching hospital, mike is 1000% correct!
and the child here was in custody and both under the care of the US government
any other spin here is disgusting and proves the inhumanity of any who support putting the blame squarely where it lies...the us government!
12
@ondelette
Both were arrested before they died. Of course they were in custody of CBP.
13
The child was diagnosed with a cold and prescribed antibiotics. It's common knowledge that antibiotics are used to treat infections. They are not an effective treatment for colds.
18
Think of the thousands of people crossing the border who are "carriers" of disease but exhibit no symptoms. Typhus hit LA a few months ago, Disneyland had to be closed due to an epidemic, whooping cough, polio! but our government refuses to provide all means necessary, (more personnel, high tech AND a physical barrier) to secure us. It's insane.
47
@kadun duncan the epidemic at Disneyland was not caused by poor migrants, but rather wealthy Americans who opt out of vaccines.
92
@kadun duncan
Neither dead child has been diagnosed with a communicable disease. A physical barrier would not absolve the US of its constitutional mandate to assess each applicant's request for amnesty and grant it if warranted. That can't be done if trump doesn't allow them to enter the country when they are in fear for their lives.
15
@kadun duncan
Protection of public health is an argument for, not against, bringing people out of the shadows, be they illegal immigrants, asylum seekers, or native born citizens. Stigmatization, marginalization, criminalization etc., do not make public health problems, or the people they affect, go away. We hopefully learned something from the AIDS epidemic, and are learning it still with drug addiction. I think that the majority of people in this country would rest easier if all those who are residing within the U.S. had reprisal-free access to public health screenings, vaccinations, and treatment of communicable diseases. And we should remember that each of us has a duty to our neighbors to vaccinate our children (and where appropriate, ourselves), and to support mandatory childhood vaccination rules, religious convictions or wacko pseudo-scientific beliefs be damned.
18
Too little, too late. Even Prisoners Of War are entitled to Medical Care. The deaths of these two children are a grotesque manifestation of the complete and total incompetence of this entire Regime. Besides scheming, scamming and outright Theft, what, EXACTLY, are they good at ?????
Go ahead, I'll wait. You own Him, GOP.
2020. Hallelujah.
121
One of the constant threats from the president was that there were many sick people with contagious diseases travelling in the caravan. Only now the lights go on at DHS to give them medical checks before holding them in the US. What a farce.
100
@RNS
You wrote "Only now the lights go on at DHS to give them medical checks". But the article behins with: "[DHS] said it has completed new medical screenings of almost all the children in its care". To me, "new" implies that there were other medical checks before this new system took effect. Maybe I didn't see something that you saw?
4
@RNS, maybe people without health insurance here can apply for asylum as well to see a doctor.
23
@John Doe And hopefully they receive better medical care.
4
Comments blaming anyone at all for this event are premature before learning the results of an autopsy. It could possibly be that this child died through some cause that no one could have prevented.
62
@Susan Foley
Wrong!
Any children the government seizes should be given a careful medical check immediately, regardless of their apparent health status.
29
I find myself questioning his early release from the hospital with a 103 degree fever. If they diagnosed a cold but gave him antibiotics, it sounds like they at least suspected that he might have pneumonia. You don't send a kid who might have pneumonia down to a highway checkpoint to get his rest and fluids. That kid needs to be kept in bed warm and safe and not allowed to get up. So I too am awaiting the cause of death. Maybe the hospital made a terrible decision.
23
@Caroline
I recently had a medical problem that wasn't obvious. I appeared fine. I saw several doctors and got a number of tests. All showed no problem.
After one year, my problem was so bad that I went to the emergency room. Then, after one year, they finally found the problem after I was admitted to the hospital.
I'm an adult who speaks fluent English and can keep insisting that I'm not well -- vs. a child, who probably speaks only Spanish, or maybe only an indigenous language, who may not be able to describe, in vivid language, how they feel -- let alone answer questions from doctors??
I'm guessing that immediate medical checks for kids taken into custody -- even by a battery of doctors and specialists -- may not find every single possible problem. There has to be a middle ground, of course. To me, the article seems to say that DHS is trying to reach it.
12
This seems like an opportunity for Army Medics and Doctors to practice their training at least on an emergency basis until a program can be set up with clinics. The military has been faced with these sorts of issues before and will be again. The people and supplies are here. Use them.
30
How many army medics have pediatric training? I would expect it to be low but honestly don’t know.
4
@Mid Michigan
And who is going to carry the liability risk on this? Who is going to cover the malpractice premiums since no one can predict with 100 percent certainty what will happen.
1
Callous and tragic though it may seem, children die all the time from illness as do adults. One should expect people in prisons to die, people in detainment to die, children in good homes to die, children who have not crossed the border illegally to die, children in schools die, and so on. Also it would be rare if a parent said, "I caused my child to die" even if that were a true statement.
43
Is this some Texas thing? Out here on the Left Coast, we do not expect it. We do everything we can to avoid it.
8
@Jim
Jim: There are also deaths that are entirely preventable. Deaths that occur through callous and tragic (to use your words) negligence are vile and inhuman.
They also carry a very heavy civil penalty. To act as though these two immigrant children died by some act of God requires a total lack of empathy.
Some folks might actually feel very sad for these innocent babies and their families.
3
@Jim it's true, people die all the time. It's just we have crazy things like laboratory testing and medication and medical observation, and when people get access to that they die a little less.
1
What worries me most about this tragedy is the GOP’s callousness. If they aren’t outraged by the death of two children, what other abuses are they willing to ignore?
58
@Josh Wilson
Your right the only thing the GOP care about is money. Human life means nothing to them that’s why they want to take away health care, pensions social security that’s why corporate America shopped jobs overseas the list of greed just goes on. We need to hold every politician accountable no matter there position because if we don’t it will only get worst.
7
@Josh Wilson They haven't been outraged enough to take action after the gun violence in schools!
10
@Josh Wilson
They aren’t outraged by the deaths of the Sandy Hook children, or of any of the victims of mass shootings, or of the people who will lose their health insurance once the ACA has been gutted. There is nothing that can outrage these people, except to be asked to pay their fair share of taxes.
21
People convicted of felonies and sentenced to prison are screened immediately upon entering a correctional facility. Why would anyone treat this (ill-conceived and immoral) operation any differently? It’s almost as if they decided not to because they didn’t think anyone would find out and even if they found out, wouldn’t care ...
19
Trump, and all his cronies and his so-called base are responsible for this little boy's death. Surely this is not a case of what they have so wrongfully described as rapists and drug dealers and violent thugs trying to enter our country. What happened is shameful and heartbreaking. My grandfather came to Ellis Island as a 7-year-old from Poland. He died here nearly 80 years later. That's when immigration worked.
27
Glassy, not " glossy " eyes, fever, nausea/vomiting and lethargy are classic signs of heat exhaustion, which often progress to heatstroke and death if not properly treated. Sheer incompetence, on all levels. That's one way to keep the brown kids out. Right, GOP ??? Unbelievable, horrible, grotesque. Not in MY name. NEVER.
69
While it is tragic that Felipe Alonzo-Gomez died, it is impossible to determine who is at fault. Customs and Border Protection brought this child to the hospital for medical treatment, twice. His death could have resulted from negligence from his own father or from a medical error at the hospital. Or it could have been the flu, which kills hundreds of Americans every year.
I'd also like to know who is responsible for the medical bill. I am a law-abiding, tax paying citizen who pays a steep premium for medical insurance. If one of my children were seen at the emergency room, twice, the bill would likely be $5,000. I'd have to pay extra for the antibiotics.
I do not agree with the child separation policy. Nor do I condone the reported child abuse at these detention centers. I think the border wall is ridiculous.
But to expect that immigrants, entering this country illegally, should receive better health care than citizens is outrageous. It is possible to have a reasonable, humane, immigration policy. It just seems like it is impossible to find reasonable, humane lawmakers.
113
@AndyThat is why we need Medicare for all. Werr are currently paying grotesquely high medical insurance bills so insurance companies can make money. Other countries do not take this wasteful path.
42
@Andy
If the state takes custody of person, the state assumes responsibility for that life. It does not matter if the person has a pre-existing condition.
I'm sorry to hear you're outraged by the expense of healthcare and are worried that someone is getting something that you aren't (in exchange for their freedom, and in this case, life).
I suggest we all support sensible immigration reform, including prosecution of companies that hire illegal immigrants as a way of ending the supply of jobs that encourages people to come illegally.
56
You're making me cry now. Even Ebenezer Scrooge got up off his pride and greed when the Ghost of Christmas Yet to Come showed him poor Tiny Tim's tiny grave.
40
Not a single migrant, child or adult, should be allowed to enter our country without a medical check.
Exactly as was done on Ellis Island.
87
Migrants that went through Ellis Island didn’t cross the border in the middle of the night
38
The bulk of the vast Irish famine immigration landed in random American sea ports. Ellis Island was not operating yet back then. So just about every American in this debate with an Irish surname is an American now because America once had open borders. Just want to remind people of that.
27
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think this child was “allowed” to enter the country. He was apprehended after entering the country illegally with his father. It’s not the same as entering the country through Ellis Island.
30
The Trump administration loves pronouncements but can’t be bothered with process or communication. Now children are dying due to their incompetence and inability to govern.
The callousness of the Trump administration is unlike any I have ever seen. Certainly they are the most inhumane.
112
@Deirdre: Children are dying due to them being carriers of illnesses that this country defeated 50 years ago. Our concern should be for American children who will be getting exposed to rare forms of measles, mumps, chicken pox, unknown viruses, polio, on and on. Children you know will be dying right in your neighborhood if you don't get your priorities straight.
41
@kadun duncan
There are effective vaccines against measles, mumps, polio, and chicken pox. If you are concerned for the well being of any child, support funding for your public health services. With adequate resources, we can cope very well with these ailments and even those "unknown viruses" and "on and on". No children need die in any community. They are not dying in the USA now except in illegal detention centers staffed by overworked and medically unqualified employees. Your fears are classic...fear of "The Other" and don't come from any realistic understanding of any risk.
25
@kadun duncan they'll be dying from those diseases due more to the fact that some American parents refuse to vaccinate their children than anything else. Most recent outbreaks of measles, mumps, and the like have been traced back to children of US citizens who have bought into the hogwash that vaccines are poison.
23
These men and women are forced to be many things to young and old. This is a complete opposite of what they've been trained to do. It would be like a nurse doing a tune up on an 18 wheeler. I've read where they are changing diapers, feeding, policing and many, many other labor intensive tasks.I do not know the answers to this complex situation. It's not just sending medical support, prayers and thoughts.
9
A family member had to go to the hospital yesterday and was diagnosed with pneumonia. Being a citizen with Medicare, he is being kept in the hospital on IV antibiotics until he is well. Could take several days. He was not sent home with oral antibiotics and a 103 degree fever like this poor deceased child. I have been in the hospital before and I was told they would not let me out if my temperature was over 100. I know border guards are not trained in medicine. But some parties involved here were trained, and now, due to my own experience, I find myself seriously questioning how well that training was applied to this vulnerable migrant child.
18
Children and adults alike are sent home from the emergency room with fevers by competent ER docs every day. Not everyone with a fever of 103 is admitted. This is neither negligent nor unsafe. Not all fevers should be treated with IV antibiotics. We have very little information with which to draw conclusions in either of these cases.
50
@Andy One thing the hospital staff needed to be aware of is that the child was not going back to a secure home with only family and thermometers, and warm soup and cool wash clothes. He was going back to a group prison where whatever bug he had could infect the other prisoners. A higher standard should have applied.
18