So many opinions about what this case means. I believe it’s part of the fight between U.S. and Chinese banks and rich people over who’s going to inherit the earth. I don’t much like the Chinese but don’t much care for the likes of Bezos, Goldman Sachs or the Kochs either. I’m just a bottom feeding shuffler. I’ll keep shuffling no matter who wins. I don’t have a dog in this race.
1
There is a much bigger issue here. Recently, Mr. Xi was criticized by some in the Communist Party for revealing China's true intent with its Belt and Road initiative. While the West has push for globalization to reduce tension in the world, the Chinese intent is to dominate through hegemony. The West allowed China to join the WTO, though its industries really answered to the Government policies and not international norms. The West thought if it was patient the Chinese Gov't would gradually liberalize. What happened: China found an old map that claimed all of the South China sea belongs to the PRC even though most of the sea borders Vietnam, Philippines, Brunei, and Malaysia. China is now militarizing the body of water. We are in the 21st century and not the 15th century & since the end of WW II there has been free movement through this area including Chinese shipments. Also, all corporations in China must meet the intent of gov't policies, first, or they will not be allowed to exist unlike Western Corp (e.g., Alstom, a French Co., went to China and showed the Chinese how to design and built high speed trains. The Chinese then made a few revisions to the design and claim the design as their own. Alstom is now out of business). We need to be careful about gradually giving up our sovereignty and norms in order to buy cheaper goods.
4
Imagine a United States where there is no division between Democrats and Republicans, where special investigations and charges of political impropriety are seen as regrettable diversions. Climate change was just parlor polemics. Imagine the Yankee equivalent of Arron Judge coming up to bat dressed in a Communist red jersey, on deck is the Russian version of Mookie Betts and in the hole Iran's rendition of Christian Yelich. For the USA Bartolo Colón is on the mound winding up and our centerfielder is down on all fours watching the ants go in and out of their mound. That's about the state of affairs of our power, financial and defense grids in the United States today. Should we lose control of these systems, we will be at their mercy. There's strong evidence which indicates that Huawei and ZTE have funneled US technology into products sold to Iran and other insurgent nations which means it's out there for sale to the highest bidder.
I have often thought about how we're going to resolve our political differences in this country and I believe this is the answer: It will commence on the day we reach for the light switch and it doesn't turn on.
My guess is that the right hand didn't know what the left hand was doing. Look for the young lady to be released soon along with some diplomatic babble and Trump claiming a great victory.
The baffling thing is why Canada would cooperate in the arrest if it really has to do with Iran. The US has chosen to break its side of the agreement with Iran instead of doing the hard work of negotiating with Iran on the issues where Iran is not being a good neighbor. The rest of the world sees the hypocrisy and foolishness in the US action; why would Canada aid and abet us? There must be something else behind Meng's detention. It better be good.
2
Once you understand the Chinese people you have no problem dealing with them as they are consistent whereas the US changes lanes and directions every 4-8 years.
4
Canada is caught between two bullies who have little respect for justice. The inaptly named US Department of Justice is notorious around the world for its ruthless and politically tinged prosecutions. There is ample evidence that Trump sees it as a cudgel for his own private use. There is no question that the decision to charge in this case was not business as usual. On the other side, the Chinese Communist party scoffs at the rule of law, and will never understand that in Canada the Department of Justice is bound in law to process extradition requests from treaty signatories. The extradition request will be adjudicated in a court of law. At the conclusion of the judicial process the Minister of Justice has the power to decline extradition. In this case, if the decision to charge appears to have been motivated to any degree by Trumpian politics (as is very likely), the Minister should reject the request. If the extradition request was legal and just, then the Minister should approve it. Either way, Canada will be the target of retaliation from one of two vindictive governments.
20
@Peeking Through the Fence
Thank you and I am hoping to hear more about the Canada side of the story in the media. Here in the US we seem more focused on how this will affect our stock portfolio.
2
I can't help but think that Huawei's technology and 5G developments is a security threat itself, not so much that the company has added alternative spying capabilities. Its been revealed that our smart phones and the networks they work on render us greatly exposed to the powers that be.
1
For violating Iran sanctions?
Can anyone explain why China would be legally required to heed sanctions that were unilaterally put in place by the US?
I can't wait for the day Trump finds out what it feels like to get detained and stew in the possibility that he will either be arrested or deported. Can't. Wait.
7
@Laura
Yes, it is very simple why. China agreed they would not transfer that technology, that was an explicit condition of China being allowed to gain access to that technology from the United States and they violated the agreement they made when they received that technology by transferring it anyway. Understand now?
2
This is a confusing situation, made no less by this article. It is unclear what Ms. Meng is accused of. Is she being charged for the company’s trade with Iran that may have violated US sanctions? Is it the company’s theft of intellectual property owned by US companies? We need some answers.
Trump didn’t know this was happening when he met with Mr. Xi? Mr. Bolton is unclear on when he was told, stating that these things “happen with some frequency,” and “we certainly don’t inform the president on every one of them.” The arrest of one of the top officers of a leading Chinese company with close ties to the government while our President is meeting with the leader of that government and he doesn’t know about it? The whole thing demonstrates an astounding level of its incompetence.
I can only imagine where we will be after two more years of this.
3
Meng Wanzhou may be a bargaining chip and a parallel negotiating track, ploys the Chinese will certainly understand. Of course it also may be the typical Trump Administration incompetence. One does not know. It has however provided the usual mild comic relief reading what Chinese spokesmen have to say about "human rights". Wonder if the Uighars have anything to say on the subject, if you can find them?
2
The timing of the arrest, not the arrest itself is the issue here. Was this the best way to "play" this card? We'll see.
Some random thoughts. The US Administration has just made it less safe for US business people in China. I do struggle to see America jurisdiction over Meng and the contrast with Trumps stand on Khassogi’s murder is interesting. OK to murder journalists but not to breach a trade embargo.
6
The arrest of Huawei's CFO is not solely about the trade war. The ultimate goal of US is to contain China just like what the US has done to Japan in the l980's when Japan.s economy was surging.
The country that establishes and implements the 5G technology will be dominant over other countries in technology and economic in the next 10 to 20 years.
Time and place has changed, China produces more college graduates than South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and US combined. Only time will tell which country comes out ahead.
3
Peter Navarro told Erin Burnett on OutFront that during the dinner with Xi none of the staff knew of the pending arrest of the CFO, but that was a "lie". I understand John Bolton knew the whole time it was going to happen but never told the others or Trump. Was Bolton trying to set up Trump for failure in the trade talks, as to just sabotage them trying to embarrass Trump so to appear as a fool leader?
3
For the sake of argument, let's assume that the DOJ had legitimate reasons for the arrest, and strictly followed US and international law. Canada’s involvement signals a good reason to believe this. It still arrives after:
1) The US unilaterally breached the Iran nuclear agreement, imposing new sanctions based on false premises, with all other international actors and inspecting agencies insisting that Iran was in full compliance. Within this framework, DOJ’s vague justification for Ms. Meng’s arrest sounds particularly weak and unclear: is it the old, international sanctions or the new, arbitrary ones by the US alone that Ms. Meng is supposed to have violated?
2) A trade war with China based on outlandish models and claims on trade dynamics and unsupported accusations, and highly propagandized for electoral purposes through continuous threats and grandstanding. Add the timing of the arrest, just as Mr. Trump was to meet Mr. Xi, and it is extremely easy to frame it as just an escalation in this US strategy of threats and disinformation.
3) The designation of Mr. Whitaker, a highly contested political hack, as acting Attorney General.
It is hard to think of a better example of how recent policies have eroded our international standing, influence and positions. As another reader pointed out, the optics could not be worse. In terms of lack of credibility, the current US administration could give Baghdad Bob a run for his money and, unfortunately, that has consequences.
6
Arresting Meng Wanzhou will backfire very badly unless convincing evidence is presented of personal involvement in crime.
One wonders what that might be, given how hard it is to pierce "the corporate veil" of responsibility, and the endless supply in almost all organizations of hapless fall guys.
Consider the VW diesel emissions cheating -- Winterkorn is indicted in the USA, but exceedingly unlikely to ever face those charges. Germany did arrest Rupert Stadler, head of Audi (part of VW).
One can even go back to Teapot Dome; Secretary of the Interior Fell was convicted of accepting a bribe that Doheny was twice acquitted of giving. This seemingly illogical outcome was the legal consequence of being unable to prove that Doheny had authorized the payment to Fell; no question it had been made.
Usually high executives can only be prosecuted by "turning" those below them into witnesses against them. Mueller's very successful prosecutions of Skillings and Lay come to mind -- he turned Fastow.
It looks improbable that the USA could have a credible witness against Meng. The trial will be interesting, and Trump and America will have a very black eye unless the case is compelling.
13
Trump is an ignorant fool when it comes to relations between states. He refuses to learn how to do it. He thinks that his gut instincts and what worked for him in his private businesses is all that he needs to know. There is no evidence from his behavior that he’s read any history nor studied foreign affairs that he recalls. It does seem that he relies upon intimidation and personal threats to soften up people in order to deal with them and considers every deal a zero sum gain transaction. Then he takes his winnings and that ends the matter. There are no long term goals in Trump’s reality.
1
The goal is to thwart the rise of
China in technology. The narrative
of technology theft, security threat
from Chinese companies is to fit
the goal of hampering Chinese rise. It is
very funny Huawei is being accused
of having contacts with Chinese communist party and the government.
In USA companies routinely donate
to both political parties and get favors
in tax reduction, weakning regulations
and even using influence to procure
business in foreign countries. Many govt. agencies, Pentagon, NASA, NIH
fund high tech research and development in the companies and
universities. Why the fuss if Huawei
or some other company has contacts
in the Chinese government. Yesterday
there was a news item that US airforce general asked Google to work on defence which its employees are
opposing. Trade negotiations will be a charade and fail to produce any result intensifying cold war with China.
Trump is wasting time. He should focus
on solving some domestic problems.
World is becoming multi-polar and
efforts to keep it unipolar will fail
much like Britain damaging itself
to stop the rise of Germany.
5
“When you have an opportunity to arrest a key figure in a law enforcement operation, you take that opportunity,”
It is arrogance at its peak to believe that, once such a path is taken by the US, the traffic will be only one-way.
The fact is once more Mr. Trump and his administration have managed to damage the US interest irrevocably. One unexpected consequence of the arrest of Ms. Meng is for China to follow the US lead extending the reach of her law enforcement beyond its own border.
In the last 30 years US companies have been busy selling to China thousands of major computer-based systems, with large high-tech contents. Many of these companies were involved in "cozy deals" with Chinese officials to overcome fierce competition from other Western companies. The Chinese government was certainly aware of many payolas that were linked to these projects. But they kept quiet, partly for fear of losing US companies' interest in investing in China and in part for technology transfers that implementing such projects entailed.
Now that the gloves are taken off, one has to expect that the China will go back and throw the books at the CEO and CFO of many US high-tech companies. Additionally, they have WikiLeaks and Edward Snowden's documents to go through, looking for US "key figures" in violation of Chinese laws.
4
So much for the great negotiator. This just shows that his "ruling" style is more thug than diplomat. That tactic never works well for most people, and never serves to make a deal go down without friction somewhere.
Great timing, El Presidente Grande.
5
US sanctions that allow for arrest of foreigners is colonialism FDR hated and America unfortunately embraced after his untimely death. Iran and Israel are the only two functioning democracies in the Middle East, and we should embrace both countries instead of monarchies that execute their opponents.
3
Democracies generally don't have a Supreme Leader...
This surprise arrest is both a provocation and embarrassment to President Xi on leadership and personal levels. He will be forced to react to show institutional strength and to save face. It was a risky, even reckless, move by Bolton not to have informed Trump and fully engaged all interested parties. Xi could heighten military tensions in the South China Sea and/or engage in threatening conduct against Taiwan. The fear, of course, is that the situation could spool out of control and be entirely mismanaged by an incompetent and feckless Administration.
4
As the stock market rises and falls with every tweet, arrest, etc. some people are making money. If one knew what was going to be tweeted or who would be arrested, that person - or their friends, families, colleagues - could benefit. Who is checking on this?
2
Shame on Canada. If this becomes a shooting war guess who will be the recipient of most of the collateral damage.
2
According to unconfirmed sources, Meng Wanzhou may hold a Canadian passport in addition to her Chinese one. If confirmed, Canadian law should treat her as a citizen although China may also claim jurisdiction over her. A diplomatic mess.
2
Leave it to the Trump administration to attempt two opposite strategies at the same time.
5
Please, someone, explain this situation to a confused Canadian.
The USA applies sanctions against Iran. A company based in another country (China) allegedly ignores/violates those sanctions. The USA believes it can prosecute an executive from that company/country for doing so. So American laws apply to the entire world?
So if China decides that an American company has broken one of its laws, it can demand that another country arrest and extradite an executive of that company to face Chinese justice?
Or is this an example of American exceptionalism?
9
More so American Imperialism rather than American Exceptionalism.
5
@Phil Ford True,that's what the American governemnt is doing, they can punish everyone in this world with any reasons they made up, just as the war they lunched to Irap, they alleged someone was using chemical weapons in that area, then use the missiles to kill thousands of innocent citizens but find nothing in the end.
4
@Phil Ford
And Canada kissing the feet of its master. This is really repulsive. Is the next step that China arrests an American and offers a trade. Is Checkpoint Charlie still standing in Berlin?
3
The problem with Huawei is not so much that they are stealing US technology, which likely happened, but the fact that they are technologically ahead of Cisco, their only real US competitor, and provide solutions that are cheaper and better, and in some cases unique. Powered by engineers educated around the world, especially in the US, as well as an intense drive to succeed, of course they are a threat. The solution has to come from upping our game, and capturing the world's best talent to work here, as we have done until recently.
34
@SteveC And I suppose you believe the U.S. has never done anything similar like stole tech information from China or other countries? LOL
4
The trade truce coinciding with the arrest of the Chinese telecom giant Huawei's top executive in Canada at the behest of the US shows how Trump is trying to weaponise the country's trade diplomacy and the foreign policy to the detriment of vital national interests and reputation of the US.
30
@Prof. Jai Prakash Sharma Hey Professor! You might try reading the article before you comment. You're setting a bad example for your students.
Trump didn't know! It's what I figured from the start.
Now if you thought the article had gotten it wrong you should have said so.
3
@Jack Toner: Given Trump's alien relationship with the truth it's hard to unequivocally conclude he didn't know.
11
@Jack Toner
Most will assume he did know because much of what comes out of Trump's mouth is the opposite. If he truly did not know, what does this say about how he is running the presidency? This was a major move. If I were him I'd be firing the person responsible.
4
The arrest sounds like a Trumpian move to me. Trump likes drama. The problems with Huawei could have been approached by prohibiting the company from purchasing US parts or similar corporate sanctions.
Trump is the epitome of hypocrisy on China just as he is on immigration. For decades, his empire relied on cheap goods from China and cheap labor from undocumented immigrants from Central and South America. Trump, like many at the top of America, has seen his wealth boom. But now that Trump has built his millions, he is suddenly shrieking, “Thief! Thief!” and belittling the nations, people, and economic policies that fueled his success.
Does Trump really think that the Chinese workers who live, literally, in dog cages and work around the clock to provide cheap goods, have gotten the better deal? Does he really think that the illegal workers who made his beds, ironed his shirts, and cooked his meals and who are now going to get deported to nations where they haven’t lived in dozens of years are getting the better deal?
If Trump had a brain and a heart, he would implement change at a measured pace and appreciate what he has gained from the flaws in the global economic system. At the least, he ought to recognize that rapidly overthrowing what has supported him and what has created cheap imported goods and cheap foreign labor is likely to paralyze the existing American economy.
84
@Heather Look Heather, maybe you have a cushy job in some office but many Americans in the small town (yes, the periphery that voted Republican) have no jobs and are dying from opiates, most likely as they escape their troubling world. Unless the Democrats acknowledge that they were hurt by the global economy and unless we deal with China (1) The US will be doomed ((2) Republicans will win the next elections. We need conservative democratic candidates and some insight as to why Obama (and Bush before him) did not take any action for eight years. (AND AS YOU CAN SEE I AM A DEMOCRAT)
4
@Heather
You might want to find out how China became a world financial power through the Bush. Clinton Cartel before you blame Trump.
4
@D I did not blame Trump. Actually, he is the first to be doing something about it. But Trump is too impulsive and his methods have not worked. Not with N Korea and no with China (they push manipulated the Yuan). In sum, we need a smart president who is willing to deal with the problem (Obama was a boneless and useless). Just saying
2
Another fine example of the competent, well-coordinated Trump administration doing their jobs. Only the best...
1
In decrying Meng's arrest, calling it "a violation of human rights," China is a fine one to talk.
5
When Trump turned a blind (deaf and dumb) eye to the cold blooded murder of a Washington Post journalist by the Saudis, he endangered the safety and security of journalists everywhere.
When Trump kidnaps a foreign national for political leverage, he endangers every American business executive who travels abroad. As one of those business executives, I am appalled and disgusted by his reckless, arrogant and brainless actions.
10
Seriously unknown to President Trump? give us a break. This is just harassment for the Chinese to give in. Did they put into handcuffs?.
1
Properly briefed? Who is the writer kidding? He doesn't listen and he has the attention span of a goldfish, although that may be unkind to goldfish. My guess is that he had been told about the operation on multiple occasions. Will he learn from this? Of course not.
4
How is it even possible that the president of the United States didn't know about the detention of a major corporate executive of China? When he is in negotiations with China on immensely important issues? How would the US feel if Bill Gates were "detained" in another country when he was changing planes? Really how stupid is this? While he meets with murderous thugs (Russian and North Korean) and refuses to believe that the Saudi prince is given a pass for murder? What is this country becoming? The King of Tweets and Tarif Man needs to pay attention to is job.
6
"...was meant as a warning shot by the Trump administration"..... a warning shot to the foot.
1
When will we stop trading with the enemy? We are putting money in their pockets they are using to buy infrastructure in Sri Lanka, Pakistan, Maldives, Africa, Brazil. We give them our money to put up satellites, lay down spyware and buy up our debt in exchange for a bunch of cheap plastic garbage that falls apart and ends up in the landfill.
We should stop with insane Middle East wars and save our money to pay more for goods produced in the US where the cost reflects humane working conditions and labor laws.
3
Few readers will be able to sleep tonight with the knowledge that Execs who make 100 million plus bonus a year may be wearing coarse lice ridden Mao pajamas, flip flops, sleeping on straw pallets, and hoping for a fish head in their gruel.
Treated the way they treat their undocumented household help.
I have just the guy to turn that into a reality TV show.
4
I shouldn’t enjoy this comment as much as I do.
The timing of this is no accident.
The Con Don, Putin, Netanyahu, Erdogan, Duerte, the Saudi prince, the new Hungarian henchmen, Sisi, the Ukraine henchmen all want WW3. They will do anything to keep the chaos going - even destroy OUR world with their insatiable greed.
WE THE PEOPLE are the only ones who can/will stop them. Please Good People of the world, implore your leaders no to get sucked into this destructive con game.
3
I don't understand how a trade dispute becomes a criminal offense. Are we morphing into North Korea?
5
This sounds like a terrible case of the right hand being completely ignorant of what the left hand is doing. Not only are there questions about the president not knowing of the arrest, but we're left to wonder why the chief financial officer was arrested and not the president or CEO of the company - could this simply have been a target of convenience. For situations like this to not occur in the future, there needs to be a paradigm shift in human thought.
In the near future, we will program the human mind in the computer based on a "survival" algorithm, which will provide irrefutable proof as to how we trick the mind with our ridiculous beliefs about what is supposed to survive - producing minds programmed de facto for confusion and destruction. When we understand all this, we will begin the long trek back to reason and sanity.
See RevolutionOfReason.com
1
While this is going on, China continues to detain American-born citizens in its own quest to bring a company executive to account in court.
And here we are arresting a Chinese company executive.
Coincidence?
1
Ivanka should be very careful when she considers flying anywhere in the world. A princess for a princess.
7
The Trump administration has arrogantly ignored the negative implications for Canada by this overreach, another abuse of our relationship. Canada now has the choice to extradite Wanzhou and China will label Canada as the “lapdog” of the US, setting back diplomatic relations. Release her and Trump undoubtedly will escalate his insults and retaliations (e.g. calling Canada “weak” and maintaining the punitive steel and aluminum tariffs despite the new NAFTA agreement). China has much to answer for but what “ally” would put you in that position?
2
Don’t worry about Canada, they certainly could refuse if they didn’t think it was worthwhile. Maybe they want to present a united front and have concerns about Chinese government controlled companies transferring sensitive technologies to rogue nations.
1
Last December I attended a party and met a nice Swiss couple who told me about their recent experience changing planes in NYC. They were returning from visiting their grandchildren in Europe and had also gone to Iran for some sightseeing. This excursion to Iran got them put in a room and interrogated for eight hours. They were repeatedly asked why they had traveled there. They answered to see the antiquities, to see the country. These are Swiss nationals who live in Mexico! They vowed never to set foot in the US again.
5
Mike Pillsbury has, unusually, become a master of understatement.
The White House didn't tell the President? Bplton's comment, implying China was just another third rate power, shows how clueless our National Security Abuser is. For Bolton, beating up on Iran is more important than a trade deal with China.
Probably Bolton"forgot" because he was sure the President would countermand the request for the Huawei CFO's arrest because of the summit with Xi. "You're Fired"???
We can debate the wisdom of postponing her arrest but the President, any President, should have had the opportunity to make that decision.
4
Being left in the dark as citizens of the US is understandable when it comes to security. An open society, no matter how open, needs to have secrets that not everyone should know about. Let’s face it, there are secrets within almost every family on this planet. That’s called Reality!
When it comes to Cyber Security, it’s even worse. All nations steal secrets. The US is probably on the top of the pile. However, when it comes to China, they’re more devious than others because it’s a closed society. It’s NOT a democracy. They don’t have to answer to the populace.
Americans tend to think about the present when it comes to economics. Asians tend to think and react about the future, way in the future, like World Domination. That’s what scares me even more than Donald Trump. After watching the Bush memorial services 2 days ago, I’m feeling so much better about reality. Prior to Trump and his escort being seated in the front row, all the past Presidents were talking and laughing with each other. The moment Trump sat down, all that stopped. That picture will be frozen into the minds of ALL rational citizens forever!
3
Every American corporate exec traveling abroad now has something new to fear -- Kidnapping and imprisonment by unfriendly foreign government(s) or factions who want to get even with Trump.
Well played, Donald! You woeful incompetence and arrogance literally knows no bounds.
4
Trudeau seems to think we have to bend over backwards to help an authoritarian regime that considers us a security threat. The US has a trade surplus with Canada particularly in services. Many fools in Trump’s base believe Trump’s bald face lies that the reverse is true, but the fact is Canada is America’s biggest buyer and has a negative trade imbalance. But we don’t need the US so much anymore, or depend on ancient geographical proximity as a determining factor in our trade. The size and speed of freighters and tankers today dwarfes those of even 50 years ago and Canada could easily buy all its products from other countries that aren’t necessarily right next door. China will soon be the largest economy in the world and Canada is its oldest friend in the west. They remember that Pierre Elliott Trudeau (Justin’s father) was the first to engage with China after the war while the Americans were (typically) obessing about the “commies”. Canada and China are friends. Not so the US which regards Canada as a security threat and passes obscene tariffs justified by this preposterous claim. But Canadians don’t need to genuflect to a country that depends on us for trade but attacks us nevertheless and certainly doesn’t treat us as a friend, and we should instead turn our heads east towards China. Canada should cease cooperating with the bully boy Trump and his knuckle dragging supporters and GOP sycophants. We should release the Chinese businesswoman and tell the US to shove it.
3
@Cranford
Is that why the Chinese called your Prime Minster 'Little Potato"? Same Chinese that made Obama exit from the 'rear' of the plane when he visited? They don't respect weakness and don't mind showing that disrespect when they perceive weakness. Show them you are weak in this matter by not handing over the person charged via an International Arrest Warrant because you fear their repercussions and you think they will reward you for that? Ask Little Potato how it worked out for him.
1
Seems to me the right hand has no clue what the left hand is doing; and Trump is in way over his head; as usual. How can you have a special relationship with Xi; and at the same time starting a trade war where everybody seems to lose? The irony is that Canada; who Trump has picked an incredibly stupid and totally unnecessary fight with,is the one the U.S. turns to in arresting this woman. One wonders who Trump really believes is a friend. Because after 2 years of insane Trumpocracy; there are very few who will ever see the U.S. as a friend who can be trusted with anything.
3
Has anyone considered that Trump is lying and actually knew about the arrest in advance?
3
So we believe Trump didn't know about this ahead of time and we believe Prince Mohammad bin Salman did know about killing Jamal Khashoggi ahead of time? That's globally credible - not!
Trump's teams are more incompetent than him, and that's saying a lot.
3
let us see how Tariff Man handles this!
3
If Trump were capable of reflective thought, he'd consider how he would react if the situation were reversed and his daughter Ivanka were arrested in Indonesia at the request of the Chinese, because of what they unilaterally believed to be illegal business dealings.
We know what would happen -- Trump would be threatening to bring down a nuclear holocaust on China.
3
The fact that Bolton knew “in advance” of the planned arrest, and that faux-Emperor Trump did not know of the planned arrest even as he was speaking with Xi, says a tremendous amount about the fairly serious state of this disguised global capitalist Empire which is only nominally HQed in, and ‘posing’ as, our formerly promising and sometimes progressing country (PKA) America.
2
Good move by POTUS. Now we have a hostage who can be used as a negotiating chip. That is how you win against China.This ain't bean bag. The days of Obama appeasement are over.
2
Adds new depth to the "Lock Her Up" chant.
1
Although the lack of communication sounds terrible at first glance, a deeper look shows more. Trump cannot keep a secret if he thinks it's a way to crow about how wonderful he is or how much power he has. The truth is that he might not have been informed precisely because he's shown very little discretion in the past.
I'm equally sure that the Chinese are upset about this. It puts them in a bad position. At this point I would say that the way this plays out will depend more upon Trump than the Chinese. Trump is not known for his tact and that can be an issue.
2
What would George H W Bush do if he were in a tough negotiation? Hold a high profile person from opposite side as a hostage during trade negotiation is not the way to solve problems. It only exacerbates the problems. Soon other countries will follow our steps to do the same. The bottom line is that we are more than just making money, seeking dominance, and winning at all costs. It is our principles in value, fairness, justice, and trust worthy at stake.
1
Imagine the republican reaction to this in incident had it been under a real president, Obama. But we know better, that was a real administration with a real smart man at the top. No needed to be afraid of giving him stuff to read so he be informed and able to make decisions.
I realize "regime" is a strong word to describe the occupants of our White House and Executive branch, but shoes have been and are still popping all over the "palace" hallways of power when decisions, timing and talks like this have taken place, and have sent the markets into a retreat. Obviously the Iran Agreement is a very complex past set of negotiations that the Executive is trying to dismantle for profit reasons. Development of new and faster technology communication links are necessary for our growing Global Communication Community across the planet. Maybe the Justice Department better do a better job of talking to the "skeleton" staff left at the State Department in terms of the timing and even the arrest of such important personal?
1
As a Chinese Americans, I am troubled by the knee jerk response of fear and condemnation from many Americans. I see this as a long overdue move that will strengthen American position. The Chinese will not bemoan her loss as she got that position from connections and not skill so plenty of people will be happy to take over. She clearly flaunted her violation of US and International laws for Canada to cooperate. Her arrest shows finally US toughness against Chinese bullying. The Chinese will respect our strength as we fight their unfair trade practices they use without consideration of the many countries they prey on.
1
Not to mention it is of course the American who is bullying everyone they want, they Chinese people will feel shameful to have you as compatriot.
A classic case of the left hand not knowing what the right is doing. Or, to put it another way, a classic case of the stable genius with a very large brain not knowing what he is doing in trade talks with China, in international relations and in our own national security concerns.
1
Really, the only thing Donald j trump can do is act tough and surround himself with questionable characters. He’s really too intellectually impaired so his decisions are made by these questionable characters. 63 million Americans are challenged in the same way. So that’s the state of America today.
I’m surprised at these responses. If an American took a piece of Chinese produced technology and illegally sold it to Taiwan against an embargo China would certainly prosecute.
4
When will somebody in America, of any political stripe, get honest and admit to the unfathomable arrogance that allows us to rationalize sanctions against Iran and to enforce them by locking up executives of co-equal competitors on the world stage? Maybe this will come when countries like China and Russia figure out that they have the capability to do the exact same thing to American businesspeople traveling abroad.
35
@Cliff
The US is a superpower. My tax dollars go to ensuring that the US maintains the post-WWII political and security architecture that we established to ensure that we remain dominant on the global stage.
Russia and China are hardly "co-equal" competitors. Rather, they are vast dumpsters of poverty and dysfunction, totalitarian regimes that the US should never, EVER, allow to prosper and evolve from their essentially third world status.
When the US starts behaving like we are scared of having hostages taken, then its game over. We will lose.
Unfathomable arrogance, you call it? Our future ability to prosper and persevere as a unified melting pot and economic powerhouse is at stake, so yes, count me in.
2
@Cliff Looks like Trump and the US government have adopted the Putin & Saudi Crown Prince approach to discipline and persuasion in foreign relations. The merits of any trade proposals or negotiations have been seemingly reduced to secondary considerations.
2
@Cliff
The arrogance comes from the oval office. This president has upended our alliances, embraced dictators, and turned the world's economic system into chaos with an ill-conceived tariff implementation combined with a haughty repudiation of agreements we as a nation have already signed onto...leading nobody on Earth to believe our word when it's given.
Such a detention of an individual would never have been thought necessary, if we had a president who wasn't a bull in a china shop (no pun intended) and supporters who simply wanted nothing more than to have him "shake things up."
It is arrogance to think that when you shake things up, nobody gets hurt and nothing gets broken.
2
Bolton also said in his interview with NPR that the ultimate goal for China trade negotiations was political reform (aka regime change) by creating a free and open market, putting an end to state-run enterprises now controlled by President for Life Xi.
This is not about trade per se, it's a struggle for world domination
and these are the opening shots. American cannot allow a successful rival model of prosperity coexist at the top that calls into question the fundamentals of capitalism.
Arresting and extraditing the CFO of China’s largest telecom company in connection with sales of technology in alleged violation of Iran sanctions cannot have a good ending. First, the optics are horrific. We look like North Korea seizing Americans for trumped up political crimes. Second, if you are Jamie Dimon, Tim Cook or the senior executive of a large U.S. company, beware of traveling to China or any other nation with close ties to it. You may wind up having a longer stay than you anticipated. Just as with trade tariffs, China will surely look to retaliate. The way to enforce sanctions is by penalizing countries and companies who deal with violators or facilitate their bad behavior, not by rounding up executives and throwing them in jail, like a third rate dictatorship. It is surprising that Canada would let itself be dragged into this. Perhaps there is more there than meets the eye. Unlikely. In any event, we are watching amateur hour and the damage being done to our credibility and standing in the world is severe. Hopefully, it is not irreparable.
52
@Jeffrey Zuckerman
There is, I believe, a lot more here than meets the eye. What for the charge sheet against the detained CFO comes out. Meantime, I applaud the administration for FINALLY speaking in a language that China -- which has microwaved with poisonous radiation our diplomats at the US consulate in Guangzhou, as well as our diplomats in Havana -- will understand. The average American has no idea how long the US has allowed the Chinese totalitarian regime to push us around.
Well, finally, we have woken up. China, beware.
@Frank J Haydn. Thank G-d we are not China but a democracy that stands for basic human rights. We'll see how the legal case unfolds, if, indeed, it goes anywhere at all. The United States does not and should not take hostages to fight political battles or trade wars. The cause is just but the means are highly questionable and therefore unlikely to be effective in the long run, except to come back and bite us. A horrific strategy.
3
Too much sentiment in these comments taking offense at Chinese spying and stealing American technology. Sorry but the U.S. is as guilty of this as any other country. Furthermore, did Meng Wanzhou personally commit a crime to make legitimate extradition? Unlikely. This whole thing sounds more like demanding that Canada carry out an act of extraordinary rendition so that the U.S. can interrogate her. Hard to believe Canada is agreeing to this.
32
@Chip Steiner
As a Canadian, I am ashamed we are doing the dirty work for the USA.
10
@M Clement Hall: I don't get it either but maybe there's more to the story than can be deduced from the NYT article.
1
What is Canada getting out of this; more insults from the President?
1
This action says a lot about our president. He approves of the arrest of Ms Meng for allegedly violating trade sanction laws. Yet, despite overwhelming evidence that the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia sanctioned the murder of an American resident, Trump does virtually nothing.
Perhaps the Huawei executives weren't booking enough at the Trump hotels....
74
How White House staff can fail to ensure the president is aware of this situation, even as he goes into talks with the Chinese leader, is beyond baffling. This administration's "best people" are bunglers, without discipline or, seemingly, ordinary common sense. It may be that the timing of this detention was impossible to foretell, but its existence certainly wasn't.
Either U.S. staff are unimaginably incompetent or someone within the administration is trying to subvert the president's approach to trade. Either way, only the American people come out as losers because our president has stocked the government with as many undisciplined, ill-qualified candidates as he can.
27
No, the U.S. does not steal technology, because in the U.S., the creator is permitted to enjoy the fruits of her/his labor! The thief is China.
1
@Miriam Chua
My comment has nothing at all to do with the theft of technology...of course the thief is China.
But having incompetent fools running our policy (such as it is) is no way to fight such theft, or to do much of anything else.
If China is, indeed, the thief then we need people in our government who know something, have real expertise, and experience in dealing with complex issues...this administration is like daycare where the babies are trying to do brain surgery.
2
@Not Amused
I think it likely that Trump was not briefed because there was no upside to revealing the issue at the dinner and Trump could not be trusted to use the information intelligently. Of course, they gambled that Xi would not confront him with it, but presumably Xi was not briefed in advance by the DOJ, either.
China has been stealing intellectual property for years and profiting from it. Stealing patents and technology is just a way of doing business in Beijing. It’s about time that the US and other countries have said enough is enough.
13
@Richard Meyer -- True, but industrial espionage is a way of life in industry.
Edison is said to have stolen ideas from Tesla.
Notice how auto companies hide their future designs from each other. Test tracks are well concealed, I know because I've seen them carefully hidden behind fences and wall near here, and new car ideas transported covered on trailers.
It is always cheaper to start with the idea someone else paid for, and then pay to take it further from there.
While China has been stealing tech, they have not only been stealing it. They also develop it. They are reported in this paper as pushing ahead in quantum encryption and 5G tech, as two examples.
2
Well, unfortunately we failed to build a strategy and united front with those "other countries" (Japan, Canada and Europe). Instead we have antagonized them, and China has been reaching out to them trying to counterbalance the US trade attacks.
Imposing concessions on China would have been much more successful if all their main trading partners put up coordinated pressure. Instead, our "Individual 1" decided to go it alone. His effort, therefore, is fractured from the start.
2
[email protected]
Yes, ideas are built on other ideas. However, if it is not a level playing field, it becomes stealing.
For now, China is quietly engaged in diplomatic efforts to resolve the issues surrounding Ms. Meng's arrest. But, if those efforts prove unsuccessful, China is posed to act. And given the current level of impulsive aggression in the White House, things can, and most probably will, escalate quickly.
One thing is certain. The current situation does not bold well for a peaceful US-China relationship or any kind of trade agreement between the two countries.
Rest assured that China will be reacting soon. Her actions will be measured and directed at the US interests. I will be very worried if I was working in China. Remember Napoleon Bonaparte's warning:
“China is a sleeping giant. Let her sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world."
I am afraid the fools in the White House are busy poking China, thinking that China will be backing off and they can have a "huge win", come 2020 election. Those who know China have been telling us that the time for China to retreat has passed.
23
@Eddie B. -- I agree, but with a caveat. Those who predict Chinese reactions too often predict reactions that are ill-advised from China's point of view. That isn't how they've behaved. They are not self-destructive in that way.
I'd look to see lack of cooperation on things like North Korea, and Iran, and Russia, and other things the US wants from China.
They won't cut off their own noses to spite their faces, by arresting American business people there in China to do what the Chinese want them to do.
3
Perhaps the arrest was made "without the president's knowledge" so that he could use the incident as a bargaining chip in the trade negotiations. He gets to look like a huge favor is granted and in return gets concessions not otherwise offered up. I would hope not, as this would be a terrible disservice to the country from a National Security standpoint. Again, there is more to the story about this company that is classified and cannot be reported in the press.
1
@JG
Arresting people as bargaining chips without the President's knowledge?
If true Bolton should be immediately fired by Trump.
1
What proof do you need that Trump is not in charge? Who has directed such a ploy? Our allies in Canada and Japan will now take steps to isolate this action to the US alone. The cabal leading this effort is now in chaos and our country is slowly being drawn into an economic debacle that will hurt all of us. Expect the trade talks to fail and simply be extended. Expect nations across the globe to consider which super power is the most stable and which super power acts in a responsible manner. Trump's nationalism compares very favorably with China's approach. But he is not in charge and we do not know what the approach of the cabal might be.
Are there any responsible adults in the Trump Administration? This seems to be a complete breakdown of communication within Trump's White House, particularly embarrassing when he's meeting with one of the officials who should have been informed of the possible arrest.
It's a classic case of "Right hand, meet the left hand; left hand, meet the right hand," and underscores the sheer incompetence of this White House, particularly when it comes to foreign affairs.
38
Seems like a smart move to me, given Trump's inclination to blurt out whatever is on the top of his mind. if Trump had known at the dinner, he would have told Xi before the appetizers were served.
I believe this was a conscious and rational decision, made by the actual adults in the room.
2
@Jim In Tucson
If any competent President was undermined in this way, he/she would demand the security adviser's resignation.
4
@Martin
The operative word here is "competent" - that we have a president who (when he actually attends daily security briefings) has to have literal pictures drawn for him because he's either too incapable of reading words (or just too lazy to) speaks directly to this situation too.
Such a president as we now have has no business firing anybody. He's immoral, unethical, callous, lazy, willfully ignorant, and stupid.
If anyone needs firing, it's the man at the top.
5
I doubt whether Mr Trump had a clue that the arrest would happen.
Mr Trump is not on top of his game.
Only an idiot could bet and lose a casino.
Good to see that the US agencies have independence.
The firm has not been given 5G access down under for security reasons.
Mr Xi, Mr Kim,Mohammed bin Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud and Mr Putin have tenure for life.
Mr Trump has these folk as buddies.
Mr Trump should retire.
Perhaps Don should read his briefs and retire if he has lost command and respect.
CNN showed a video of babies starving to death in Yemen.
Mr Trump lacks the aptitude, intelligence and integrity of a suitable man, and I use the noun man loosely, to lead.
I suggest that voting is crucial.
4
Trump doesn't do delicate.
1
Xi, Meng & Trump
The Canadians arrested the wrong person..
5
If these two guys are having a Special Relationship I would hate to see an unspecial relationship.Trump is tanking the country and the world and the beat just goes on. The Dealmaker is proving his book was just a pipedream.
3
“we certainly don’t inform the president on every one of them.”
Wouldn't want to overtax his brain.
Will Trump back up the Department of Justice or will he cave like he did on ZTE?
2
If Xi Jinping is really shrewd and wise he will bring up America's abysmal human rights record at home and abroad. Along with accountability of American businesses for assisting American government in spying on us along with facilitating Russian hacking and meddling.
With 5% of humanity the 2.3 million Americans in prison are 25% of the planets prisoners. And although only 13.3% of Americans are black 40% of the prisoners are black. Because blacks are persecuted for acting like white people do without any criminal justice consequences.
China did not invade and occupy Afghanistan and Iraq killing, wounding, displacing and making refugees of millions. China did not engineer coups in Egypt and Libya. China is not an ally of the axis of evil Israel and Saudi Arabia. China is not engaged in the wars in Syria and Yemen.
Neither China nor Huawei hacked and meddled in the 2016 and 2018 American elections. Facebook's Jeffrey Zuckerberg was among the villains in that scam. While American patriot Edward Snowden warned us about the telecommunications industry assisting our government secretly spying on us.
3
@Blackmamba China is currently holding 800,000 Muslims in internment camps. I'm not sure they want to start on human rights abuses.
1
Trump really has no idea how any of this fits together, does he?
4
“The National Security Agency breached Huawei servers years ago in an effort to investigate its operations”.
huh...how ironic.
3
Trump's America is behaving as an out law in the world of nations. Trump's America can follow its foolish Itran sanctions for its own goods but it has no authority that other nations and their citizens must follow it. This is an outlaw action and Trump's government must be "sanctioned" out of UN.
4
China should know better. Trump lets only his closest cronies to do business with Iran without consequence.
The trade issues are too complicated for our President to comprehend, putting it bluntly. The man who needs easy wins has never bothered with details.
As for him not being aware of the impending arrest? Doesn't it make most of us suspect that the President's
1)own behavior (refusal to listen to briefings, or 2) inability to remember, or, more so, 3) his tendency to spill the beans to anyone he might be trying to impress at the moment in his one-on-ones with the world's dictators, means he is now, perhaps, excluded from information loops where secrecy is imperative?
Wait until China rounds up a few Canadians and Americans in response to Ms. Wanzhou's arrest. What a simpleton Prime Minister Trudeau is to acquiesce to Trump's demands to arrest her. As for Trump, who made America the police of the world?
4
Reagan did.
What would Trump’s response have been had Canada breached the terms of its extradition treaty with the US and allowed Meng to board her plane? We had no choice. Trump put Canada in an untenable position vis a vis its relations with China and the USA recklessly and without regard for the consequences to its greatest ally. Appalling, and will not be forgotten.
3
@Majortrout
You are able to trade with that world because the United States plays that role as the World's Policeman. Believe me pal, tax payers here would like it if we spent that money on free healthcare and better infrastructure but then countries like yours, that don't bother to develop a military because they know nothing can attack you without facing the wrath of our own military wouldn't be able to trade with the world at such a low cost would you? You dare complain we play World Policeman when one person is arrested to be extradited but not when you are able to trade with the world? You think those used fighter jets you are buying will protect you if China decides to take your territories or blockade your ports? How, they are barely able to fly that's why they are being sold to Canada.
1
Are we coming upon a future where trumps base of intellectually lazy, whiney, entitled baby boomers will actually need to get a "blue collar" job?
2
@rob -- The intellectually lazy, whiney, entitled who look down on blue collar jobs are those who lost the last election from their own arrogance and conceit, and when they finally need a job of their own it won't be there.
I'm only a simple minded doctor, but I have great difficulty with the idea that one country believes it has the inalienable right to control the trading activities of another.
What is it about the USA (quite a newcomer to the world) that thinks it should be able to control the trading partners of Iran (which has been around for a few thousand years)?
9
@M Clement Hall -- What is it that lets the US pull out of an international deal to control nuclear weapons, then abuse the world for not helping it do so? Iran, yes, but also various nuclear deals with Russia. I know "Putin, bad" but really this is about nuclear weapons proliferation and making them more likely to be used ("usable" smaller designs).
@Mark Thomason
What is it that lets the US pull out of an 'International Deal'? The fact it wasn't a Treaty maybe? It was a Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action and never even put in front of Congress to ratify. That is the 'what is it' that you are looking for. It was a piece of paper that had no teeth and Obama knew when he signed it the next President could undo it with his pen, same way Obama signed it.
The rest of the world is becoming less and less tolerant of the extravagant extraterritoriality of United States law. Not now, not this time, but in the near future as American decline relative to others proceeds, retaliation in kind will occur and will be a sure sign of a new balance of power(s).
7
@Waltz -- In the past, other nations tried to do that to the US, and the US didn't like it at all. The US even objected when Japan and Europeans did it in China.
But Europeans were glad that finally an organization like the FBI had the guts to take on FIFA corruption a while back. And as long as Iran is actively exporting terrorism, I don't mind the US acting like the world's policeman.
Bad diplomacy - the US cannot get it right because we gave up any rights when we removed ourselves from the former Pacific and Iran agreements - too bad Trump, you goofed. Live with it. djm
4
This is SO rich.
"“To detain someone without giving clear reason is an obvious violation of human rights,” said Geng Shuang, a spokesman for China’s Foreign Ministry, who demanded Ms. Meng’s immediate release.""
To poison and cripple US diplomats at the US consulate in Guangzhou with microwave radiation (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/01/science/sonic-attack-cuba-microwave.html) also is a violation of human rights.
Poor China, wanting its cake and demanding to eat it too.
4
Its strange to hear the CCP characterize the arrest as a human rights violation. [The former female president of South Koran is in now in jail.] I wonder how Ms. Meng feels. She should get off with a US defender by her side; everybody knows the party secretary is the person who is in charge. She should say "I am not a member of the Communist Party of China."
@Jeff Stockwell -- It is strange to see a human rights violation defended just because the US did it and the one objecting is the more usual defender. It still isn't right.
While the Chinese do have many issues that need to be addressed on trade, it is not our right to go around the world demanding that other countries not do business with countries we have chosen to make our enemies.
China will not accept this intrusion into their sovereignty.
5
So the Chinese spokesperson actually made the comment about human rights with a straight face?
6
How is this any different from a government sanctioned kidnapping?
1
Pretty sure not even the Chinese and Russian trolls here have the slightest idea that 5Gis actually a denser wave needing more densely dispersed towers. 5G will aleviate DOWN speed congestion (video entertainment streaming), which will hopefully open up more UP speed on the more traditional wireless spectrum.
1
When is China going to arrest a major executive of Cisco, IBM or Intel for espionage and subterfuge against China on behalf of the United States of America's intelligence agencies? How about arresting a top Bloomberg reporter for distribution of false news and propaganda against China? These companies and people are breaking Chinese laws daily, but yet China takes no action against them. Just based on the Snowden papers alone, China could arrest thousands of Americans on justified charges!
China has a long long way to go before she reaches the standards practiced and mastered by the United States of America in the conduct of political, economic, gunboat and legal terrorism against the rest of the world. Also why I advocate for China to have nothing less than 2,500 nukes and dropping of the "no first use" policy because without such, the United States of America would have nothing but contempt and disdain for China's ability and determination to defend herself against American hostility and provocations.
2
"...While the Justice Department did brief the White House about the impending arrest [of a individual of the *highest possible rank* in Chinese society], Mr. Trump was not told about it. And the subject did not come up at the dinner with Mr. Xi..."
--
I’d like to invite anyone, who like myself has been schooled in [any of] the social sciences, to try to absorb what this article implies, about:
1. The current state of affairs in our government.
2. The character and competence of those who work for and support our government.
3. What all but the most casual [read, "ignorant"] observers must now be thinking of us.
--
Try if you will, to visualize all the dynamic forces at play within this one incident. Then try to extrapolate on those observations , imagining what could be at stake for all of us, as we begin to project our collective hopes and fears into the not so distant future:
—
What I get? Is this “sinking” feeling, that makes me wonder if it might be better to “relocate,” to say Canada or Australia, before it’s too late. That is, * before* these neighboring speakers of English decide they’d rather forgo, “the increasing flows of backward individuals, who persist in disseminating their unsound ideas, as well as their disorderly ways in our midst.” [my caption]
—
My fellow Americans:
We’ve arrived at a critical juncture, and we’re facing some *very* hard choices.
—
Be prepared.
4
@Tom Callaghan
Cannot agree more! Come on NYT. This may just be the best Christmas surprise ever.
1
I'm still not clear about this. Does the United States have the legal right to arrest anyone from a foreign country for violating U.S. sanctions mandates?
3
"we will have to see if China can compartmentalize this case”
The US has often enough boasted of the political power of "linkage" when it fails to compartmentalize.
As with sanctions and containment of Russia, the US wants it both ways, cooperation and active help despite deliberately sensitive political pressure at the same time.
Help China "compartmentalize" this blunder by firing John Bolton. That would be a win-win.
4
So how does a Chinese company, based in China, subject to Chinese law, get arrested based on US law while in Canada, for selling to Iran.
What happens next, a US company CEO gets arrested in Singapore for violating Chinese law by selling to Taiwan?
Where does this end? Was Huawei indicted in a US court? In an international court? Where is due process?
The lack of coordination and communication on this is stunning. The stock markets are in shock at the sheer audacity and incompetence of this.
6
The rest of the world has every right to have commerce with Iran if it wants to. The incredible arrogance of American officials to think that they can impose their laws and policies on everyone else is absolutely incredible. America is more despised in the world today than it has been in a long time - well, since George W. Bush, so it's not that long. The growing American war on China and its efforts to keep China as an inferior power is becoming more and more transparent and dangerous. It speaks to profound American insecurity but also, as I said, an unbearable arrogance. The EU is pushing the Euro as an alternative to the dollar, the yuan is on the verge of becoming an international currency, and much of thi is being done to get around the US' desire to use its economy as a weapon to bully the rest of the world. This cannot happen soon enough.
15
@Shaun Narine Got to wonder what a "naval incident" in the South China Sea, let's say a collision between a U.S. and a Chinese war ship, would do to relations.
@Shaun Narine
The rest of the world does have every right to have commerce with Iran. They do not have the right to transfer restricted technology that we licensed to the Chinese with the express prohibition of it being transferred to Iran. That is what they did and that is why this woman was arrested.
Curious about if China took action to ban Apple due to the concern about national security just like we do,how could we react?
1
Yes that thought passed through me too, I’m guessing there would be mass political and social media representations, both in public and privately. Meanwhile Trump would say maybe it didn’t happen and announce a Trump Tower in Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen, Xian and ten other cuties in China.... couldn’t resist guys.... it’s Friday!!
They are too busy learning to copy Apple phones to ban Apple.
It seems to have taken the arrest of a Chinese prominent executive, for the Chinese Foreign Ministry to speak of human rights violations.
Based on the information avaliable to the public there are certainly some questionable aspects in her detention; however, from a moral standpoint I wonder how the Chinese government would react if it were to be held accountable for their own practices when it comes to law enforcement and administering justice.
3
@David Quiroz The same would hold true for the United States, making it a moot point.
Now if only China will similarly detain about a thousand "transactionally" oriented traveling American CEOs and US politicians, we can have a real party. I sincerely hope that a contingent of Wall Street executives, Hedge Fund managers and Corporate CEOs takes a quick flight to Beijing to investigate this matter immediately.
10
The sanctions against Iran are, more than anything, a bargaining tool with the Saudis. The Sunni-Shia civil war has been going on for hundreds of years, and unfortunately the US has decided to profit from taking sides.
Iran isn't my enemy, and the Saudis aren't our friends. We should have left the entire Middle East to its own devices decades ago, and, like Canada, just minded our own business.
I suspect our government, including within the CIA, has people who are bought and sold by the Saudis, but what do I know?
Hugh
9
This administration is constantly in such chaos and such disarray, that every area of concern appears to be adversely affected.
We have been told this president likes to run things through chaos. It may be, however, that he's simply so inept he's unable to provide anything but chaos.
He's not capable of providing the structure and control over his subordinates that's so urgently needed to handle sensitive issues with real diplomacy, tact, and strategy, and we are already seeing our standing in the world falling precipitously for it.
39
To have a president basing foreign diplomacy on his "special" relationships with other world leaders is childish in its implications.
It's a preposterously immature approach to dealing with the complexity of the world, and is dangerous when other world leaders actually know what they are doing, enabling them to play him like a fiddle.
34
It is interesting that this woman is being held responsible for the actions of the company. I contrast that with the heist of the millenium perpetrated by our bank CEOs and CFOs during the financial meltdown, and the insider trading by federal officials which is hardly policed, and the insider trading on Wall Street "legalized" structurally to prevent jail time for the principals like SAC. There the CFOs are not held accountable despite considerable malfeasance by their financial companies. The US makes a lot of noise about corruption and malfeasance in other societies but there is a strange silence when it comes to Wall Street and K Street, our greatest industries since we outsourced the rest to China. Trade with Iran is hardly as damaging as insider trading and corruption in our government. In fact, trade with Iran would do the US quite a bit of good.
32
Although I don't support Trump on a lot of his policies, nor do i care for is insensitive approach to almost everything. His hawkish stance toward China and Russia should be commended. China steals our technology, which is our economic life blood. Russia has interfered in a negative way into our political elections, the very heart of any true democracy. We should withdraw all manufacturing back to North America Immediately increasing jobs and wealth at home
Us firms should eat their loses for the greater good of the nation. These twisted Oligarchies limit their people's freedom and choices, and are ruled by a small circle of greedy party elites, who flaunt their wealth and power at the expense of most of the citizenry. They lie to their people to protect their power and control, and use violence and torture to protect their elite families from any threats at home and abroad. The leaders of these countries have limited democratic ideals or sympathies and are not our friends. Unless you want to learn Mandarin or the Russian language against your will, think twice of taking any eyes off the
east!
4
> US firms should eat their loss for the greater good good of the nation.
This is exactly what today’s firms are not able to do. Their petty profits seem to overrule their gratitude towards their nation.
Today, we have companies who are not essentially bad but are “takers” in a society. Their employees and their policies dont really benefit the nation at large
2
@Chris Macdonald Hawkish stance toward Russia? Are you certain about that?
With the same ridiculous logic, China can build the case against all defense contractors (Lockheed Martin, Boeing and etc ) who have sold weapons to Taiwan and arrested them accordingly when situation arise.
Like the Bolton, there is equally hardliners in China think the military and trade confrontation is inevitable and in a no winner trade and military conflict, China can outlast the US because of the US is a divided country governed under the inefficient democracy where the legislators are constantly under pressure for the next election.
10
You got it wrong
This has nothing to do with the sanctions imposed by Obama to stop people from trading with Iran.
This is about to selling a product by any country that uses American technology to another nation without permission.
This is very relevant if that technology was stolen from the US and can be used for military purposes or to compete against America,
This was therefore not part of the agreement made with Iran to lift a embargo in return for their promise to stop their actions to develop a nuclear weapon.
6
FBI says this case has been "building" since 2010. So we apparently gave this chinese company plenty of rope before we finally tied the noose.
7
@Brewster Million That also is a reason to believe this isn't directed against Iran as the embargo had not been declared at that time.
9
I cannot understand why any non-American has to follow US laws about trading with Iran. What if china embargoed Canada? Could they then arrest Americans who deal with Canada? This is absurd.
51
@John -
"While the case involving Ms. Meng is related to the unauthorized sale of equipment that could violate sanctions against Iran, F.B.I. counterintelligence agents and federal prosecutors began building criminal cases against Huawei’s leadership in 2010, according to a former department official.
The effort was led by United States attorneys in offices where Huawei has facilities, including Massachusetts, Alabama, California, New York and Texas — offices that were chosen this fall to lead the Justice Department’s efforts to combat Chinese national security threats.
"As the F.B.I. looked into Huawei, its investigators grew concerned that company officers were working on behalf of the Chinese government. By the time Mr. Trump took office, F.B.I. leaders regularly talked about Huawei almost every day, according to a former official."
3
@John My understanding is that this happens a lot in China. They arrest or detain people who violate it's laws and are known for cancelling the exit visas of people who they suspect of violating their laws while in the country. In this case, this is someone who is in transit, or in some way making an airline flight change upon landing in Vancouver BC. She was not specifically wanted by the FBI, nor the RCMP, and travelling into an open democratic country especially Canada, she should have been warned in advance of an existing warrant.
2
@Skeexix quoting the article without commentary is not giving a useful reply.
Basically, Trump has played Canada, to be one of his henchmen, kind of like how Michael Cohen, and the other unethical bag men that Trump seems to employ to do his dirty, and make this arrest, which was in essence an abduction. Canada hid her arrest for almost 5 days and has not come forth to inform even its own mouthpieces, including the Canadian Broadcast Corporation with the actual details and justifications. I know this for a fact from a CBC official. question in this case, is why did Canada allow itself to be used. Possibly because of how Trump kept Trudeau in the dark about whether he would do a new trade deal with Canada, given the move to cancel NAFTA. It seems to me that Canada acted to appease Trump. As we learned in World War II, appeasement of the German Government's dictator/leader led to more aggressive actions, and finally the Blitzkrieg of Poland. As Americans, how can we sit by and let this megalomaniac flaunt the rule of law in our country and coerce countries with fine reputations to lower themselves to commit questionable acts?
6
Corporate spying and espionage from the Chinese has reached a record level.
The only way to really control them is to not allow their kids into the U.S., nor into our educational system, or to buy a fancy apartment as their “dorm rooms”....perhaps unless they can demonstrate their money comes from very narrow legitimate sources.
The U.S. school administrators (who make tons more than the professors) have got to be forced off the money pool of China. China money is the heroin of every college administrator. And, chinese grad students are bringing scientific and technical knowledge back to China to hack. Zero r&d costs. No benefits for us, we’re bring robbed of our technical genius.
How can our universities, and boarding schools, sell themselves to people who have political prisoners in concentration camps? And, are using ethnic cleansing towards Tibetan’s and other religious minorities.
The first step is to deny entry to all the “princelings”, even if they own a 50 billion penthouse. We need to take a pause and reassess what all these Chinese and Russians are doing here.
25
@Lily Exactly right. Alibaba, Huawei, Baidu and other CCP linked companies all operate in the US. They regularly poach Chinese employees from other leading US tech companies.
It's the US companies and their addiction to complacent labor that are a big problem. They sponsor Chinese nationals for green cards, which is generally a long process. Once they get their green cards, off they go to Chinese companies. And if they rise to managerial positions in US companies, they will hire other Chinese nationals over other qualified applicants. And then the same companies will complain to the government how they need more work visas for Chinese nationals because there are no qualified Americans. Money over all else.
7
@Lily
Right- and by that logic the same goes for all Americans who do the same.
Do you think the Chinese are the only ones committing espionage, patent infringement or money laundering?
Spy exchange. I would not be surprised that some hi-value spies working for the U.S. in China have disappeared.
If you recall Obama's sudden capture of Russian moles who were later released for captured American spies.
7
This story has legs. Some energetic investigative reporting should prove rewarding.
Bolton has let it be known that he knew the arrest was going to be made. He also seemed to want the press to know that Trump was not briefed.
Is Bolton's ego getting the best of him? Did Bolton give a heads up call to Adelson who has a lot of money (casinos) in Macau?
Another thought I had was I wonder what has happened to Mira
Ricardel, Bolton's Deputy, that got on the wrong side of Melania.
Is she over at Justice in the section dealing with extradition requests? She's got protection at high levels so she's still on the Bolton Team out of Melania's sight.
Does Bolton think his status with Adelson and the Iran Hawks is so secure that he can treat Trump like one treats someone who has sort of "lost it."
Someone is going to make a name for themselves getting to the bottom of this story.
14
Or trump was briefed and he didn't listen.. Or was distracted by Judge Piro's monolog that evening.
Custom Writing Research Papers are specific as the client often presents his/her request that is often accompanied by a set of instruction originating from the lecturer.
1
Strange story. Arrested at the request of the United States. (Who’s that?) The Justice Department investigation, did they ask for it? The White House was informed...ok, but Trump wasn’t told, who is the White House? Trump is grand standing with Xi while Meng is arrested. Will Trump now be able to blame stock market loss, Chinese break down and future trade failures on the Justice Department? Sort off a Marx Brothers deal.
8
Can America really kidnap citizens of other countries anywhere it wants, without basis in international law and with total impunity? That seems to be so. Frightening, how similar this case is to another recent case of abduction - which ended, of course, much more tragically. One can only hope, that Canada gets something worthwhile out of this. Shame, if Mr. Trudeau has sold Canada's reputation for less than a personal dinner invitation to the White House.
22
@Wolf Arresting accused criminals is not kidnapping. How can an Australian not understand this? International law clearly allows this.
2
@Jack Toner: What's the crime Jack?
The US has become a rogue nation or part of an axis of evil including Hungary, Poland. It has withdrawn or abrogated or signaled its intention to withdraw from the Paris Accord on climate change, the Iran nuclear agreement, TPP, and INF.
Mike Pompeo, the US Secretary of State, has announced that the UN, EU and other international organizations and treaties are just hindrances to the US nationalist and unilateralist interests.
Despite overwhelming circumstantial evidence and conclusion by the CIA, the US has denied the involvement of the Saudi Crown Prince in the murdering of a Washington Post columnist.
The arrest of a Chinese executive on Canadian soil was the action of an unhinged government of a rogue state.
23
Unless they have something directly on the CFO, it is not justifiable to detain/arrest her for actions purportedly to be those of Huawei. Despite recent theories such as "corporations are people too," corporations have no corporeal form. Consequently, they cannot be "locked up." There's nothing suggested by the title of CFO which would indicate control of corporate actions. The fact that Ms. Meng is the daughter of the company chairman makes this look more like a kidnapping and her like a hostage.
23
@NJJack Corporations take actions based on the commands of individuals. If the CFO ordered transactions be executed with Iran, then she's responsible. Crack a book.
1
@Derek Muller, there’s been little transparency provided on the nature of the charges against Ms. Meng. In fact, the little information given has been changing. That “book” you refer to will only likely produce more bad optics.
It seems unlikely this extradition is due solely on violating trade sanctions; that would be an extreme move, even for this administration. Huawei is a ‘front’ for the Chinese state intelligence services, I suspect there is compelling evidence against Huawei of something much bigger. This maybe another ‘stunt’ by this administration, but it could be brilliantly played if proof exists of Chinese state complicity in such action by Huawei. Watch for another shoe yet to drop.
4
@Don - Yes, I suspect you are correct. And I hope you are as it seems China (the CCP and their circle) are like a cancer. I am no fan of Trump at all, but I am forced to agree with some of his anti China rhetoric. It's not all fake news, even if that is China's specialty....ha ha
This so called war has been a long time coming. I am thankful that we finally have a President who will stand up for America and not back down from the chinese.
President Trump. Keeping America Great.
5
@Brewster Millions He didn't know so giving him credit now is a bit dubious.
We'll see what he does now that he does know. Remember ZTE?
6
Glad that finally this admin is pushing back on China. That country is stealing US tech for years to make their cheaper copycat and undermine US economic future. This is war by other means and I'm happy that Trump admin is not shy or scared to engage the challenger. Russia is an empty vessel makes more noise but China threat is the real deal when it comes who will define the technology and financial future for next 100 years. It is about time the US admin acted in national interest.
8
That. is. Hilarious! I bet he thought it was going to be some great power play while sitting with Xi. Some imagination.
9
Yeah, just what I thought...connecting the words, “planning,” and “trump,” is always and forever a mistake.
6
China is upset about this arrest while they hold US citizens (Victor and Cynthia Liu) for being the children of people it wants to get its hands on. Pres. Trump please include allowing them to leave China part of any deal with China.
13
Yes, and the family of Jamal Khashoggi, a US citizen, will click the “like” button for your insightful suggestion :)
5
Should we poor people give up our Chinese phones now? Honestly why would the Chinese want to spy us regular people?
Did they put in the capability in these phone to send us death rays or sickening rays? We cannot even trust Face book or our own FBI to not spy on us and using what every they might glean for their own benefit. Though I find it laughable to think my life would be of any interest to anyone. Can you imagine how boring it is to spy on normal American citizens?
The President was not informed of the imminent extradition because who ever is in charge knew he would blurt it out somehow during his exchange with Mr. Xi. I guess it was a secret well kept since none of the White House staff have cheap Chinese phones.
11
@cheerful dramatist They supply key components for cellular networks. I certainly don't know what mischief they could get up to and neither do you.
1
I don't understand how the US can arrest a Chinese National on Canadian soil?? I do believe the Chinese company is spying on us, but exactly how can they justify this?? And, the fact that Trump didn't know about this was perhaps, because he refuses to read his daily intelligence reports. Or, the DOJ is trying to undermine him....hmmmm...
5
We most certainly have an extradition agreement with Canada, though no doubt China is putting the pressure on Canada to dishonor it.
But ultimately, the Canadians know what relationship is of more importance. When WWIII comes along, no doubt the Canadians will stand by the US. Our relationship is just too important and too strong for a buffoon like Trump to wreck. He can damage it, but ultimately the US and Canada are joined at the hip.
7
This is a test. The war with China has begun. Either Canada is going to salute the flag and arrest a daughter of the emperor XI as a gesture of solidarity with the west or it is going to offend the best friend who might be a little paranoid.
10
I would personally condemn the company for any proofed illegal conduct. But is this arrest legal by itself? The US imposed sanctions on Iran. Why does a third country citizen/company need to abide by that?
7
US made items were fraudulently re-exported to Iran, though the terms of sale that the buyers (Huawei) agreed to prohibited this, and they probably represented that the goods were ultimately destined for Chinese use only.
6
Google “extradition treaty”
3
America has lost the hearts and minds of the Chinese People who may choose NOT to buy USA made products and services. There are many other countries that would like to export their products to China that the Chinese People will welcome. So no matter "The Trump Deal" if the Chinese people feel despised and disrespected by the American Government's actions, the hope that they will buy USA is just exactly that "a hope". Let's make a deal. However you can't force individuals to purchase your goods if you choose to insult them.
3
@alkoh
I know the people of China have hearts of their own, but with what I witnessed in the Spring of '89, I also know your minds are property of the Party.
I do hope there is a way forward without conflict between the US and China, but that hope is fading.
3
@alkoh
Sorry, but which American made products are you referring to? What does the US still manufacture that China is still buying?
1
@alkoh We have in our country a quaint concept called the Rule of Law. It is currently under assault by none other than our own President who may well agree with you.
If a Chinese corporation violated our laws by exporting our technology fraudulently then it's their own fault they ended up in hot water. It ain't about respect for this people or that people, it's about respect for the law.
I don't expect you to understand this but there it is.
1
Don’t understand why other countries have to comply with American (wishes) sanctions.
We don’t own the World and the World does not owe us.
6
@Mark But we do own certain valuable technologies which Huawei agreed not to send to Iran. Looks like they might have been untrue to their word and were unlucky enough to get caught.
If they had their own technology they wouldn't be subject to American law. We'd have to put sanctions on them and maybe the WTO would rule against our sanctions. Which would enrage the right-wingers who do think we own the world.
1
This is a bogus arrest and sets a bad precedent. China, the U.S. and the rest of the Security Council entered into a treaty with Iran to lift sanctions in return for Iran suspending their nuclear weapons program, but we pulled out of that agreement unilaterally. The other countries are under no obligation to follow us. If I were Canada I would tell us to mind our own business who they allow into their country as guests.
11
Just another example of how a chaotic Trump administration stumbles and bumbles through a world of international diplomacy about which the Pres knows little or nothing, thus the bulk of his administration has become accustomed to doing business without keep him in the loop.
Blurting out things about China, then about Iran and sanctions, then about nearly anyone/everyone else, leaves Trump little option but to change his mind every few days, then flip to another issue to distract from the present one.
And so the disgrace of #45 goes on.
6
Given all the disrespect we’ve shown our favorite sister-nation and ally, I’m surprised Canada didn’t just turn the other cheek avoiding any action on Meng.
Instead, Canada isn’t our ally; we’re their colonial subjugate. We don’t call it that, out of international protocol, but we own them, Trump knows it, and we treat then like dirt and demand from them whatever it is we can take from them. We’re no longer a world power; more like Russia’s twin.
Two more years, and this will all be over. Can’t wait.
7
@Rick Trump may be gone in two years, but it may be wishful thinking on your part that “this will all be over."
6
This is what you get when policy is made off the cuff. Thinking ahead is apparently too much to ask, but I knew that.
3
It is beyond my meager comprehension why the US can arrest an executive of a Chinese corporation because that corporation broke an US law.
I'm not a lawyer, but it would seem that American laws apply to people in residence in the US. We don't routinely prosecute people like Duterte of the Philippines for murdering people who he deems to be drug users or dealers. Duterte is a vile, evil person, but he is also beyond the reach of American law enforcement and courts.
It should make no difference if the "crime" is stealing of American technology or refusing to honor a US sanction on Iran. Arresting their citizens would seem to me to be an act of war.
Moreover, should the US start trying to enforce its laws in other countries, chaos would result. What would keep them from arresting Americans on trumped up charges. And why could we complain when we do the same thing.
Huawei industries is undoubtedly conniving and dishonest in their business dealings, but our recourse is just not to do business with them, not to arrest their executives.
8
Every other comment it seems questions the legality of extradition. Have you people not heard of Noreaga or El Chapo? It’s called extradition and there is plenty of precedent. I’m beginning to think that the comments section has been taken over Chinese bots or trolls.
5
@John
Extradition is simply the process of asking one independent jurisdiction to hold and turn over a person to another based on some claimed right/law recognized by the international community/ both jurisdictions.
What these posters ask, as well as myself, is what is the law relied upon to assert that the US can seek to hold and potentially imprison Meng Wanzhou? How did she allegedly violate US law and how did the US obtain jurisdiction over her to make such a claim? No bots or trolls here, just legitimate questions.
5
Trudeau is not one to obey Trump. If he agreed, there's some serious stuff behind it,
8
The Trump administration is heavy on sticks, light on carrots.
The failure of Trump is not hammering out a clear policy for his team to folow. When there is no clear message it's hard to - stay - on message.
2
What is amazing is that the Chinese have been able to get away with it for so many years - mainly due to the political clout of the US Chamber of Outsourcers. What does not have to like Trump to see that he is doing things that Obama and Bush before him were unable/afraid to do. The Chinese have been stealing Western know how for a couple of decades now with total impunity, leading them to believe that the size of their market alone will intimidate everyone. It is high time that the companies using stolen technology are blacklisted and prevented from doing business.
7
It's good that the United States is finally fighting back against China.
The world will be a more dangerous and less free place if China continues its trend toward dominance.
And it is rightly America's role to contain such a huge threat.
6
Though Huawei is a “private company” the Chinese look at this arrest as the same as the U.S. arresting a government official.
If course Huawei is working on its government’s behalf. Here lies the confrontation of the U.S and China .
1
@Tay
How is Huawei’s relationship with the Chinese government any different from the dealings of Apple, Google, etc. with the US government?
I’ll have another glass of American exceptionalism, please!
1
I worked at a major Canadian telecommunications company, Nortel Networks, for 18 years from 1983 to 2000, in the Systems Engineering Division (7), responsible for new product designs. In the late 90's, it was widely discussed and agreed in our division that the new PLA company Huawei had hacked into our computer systems and stolen our new product designs, then made clones and sold them for exactly 1/3 less than we sold ours.
The impact on Nortel Networks was profound. It was a major factor in the bankruptcy of Nortel several years later (although the corruption of the top management also played a major role).
73
@Ian Easson You didn't find out the Snowden case, US spied on Canadian, British's Cisco system and even German Chancellor Angela Merkel cell phone until afterward?
Is there any proof Huawei spy on Canadian Network? Why is there Trumphed up fear Huawei spy on Canadian Network with not a single proof while ...
2
@Ian Easson
This could explain why Canada would be motivated to participate in this extradition. There is considerable political risk internationally in supporting Trump in his vendetta against Iran; Canada must have more at stake, otherwise why take this risk, particularly given the total dis-respect he has shown toward Canada.
1
Scott, it’s been known for years that China steals American technology. Why would it be surprising that they steal Canada’s as well?
3
I have friends in China with party affiliations that express a surprisingly paranoid theory. They suggest that the CCP is secretly orchestrating these frequent CEO embarrassments (and HNA Wang Jian's death in France) in an attempt to contain the increasing power of China's entrepeneur class. This theory is based on the reformist Communist party's teachings that the natural evolution of capitalism creates an oligarchy like the one that has taken control of the U.S.
18
Ms. Meng should be released. The sanctions placed on Iran are loosing legitimacy. When the US withdrew from the nuclear disarmament deal with Iran it muddied the waters so to speak.
23
Wow I hope the public is told what sanctions Huawei violated. For those interested, read up on the Shane Todd story, it might become important. He was working with Huawei over gallium nitride (a compound used for communications and military equipment) before his suspicious death in 2012. I had heard the material he was working with ended up in Iran (i.e. sold to them by Huawei), but have never seen any reports at major news organizations about a possible link until this story.
3
Trade should be between countries that are aligned on common purpose. When one country uses its companies as a way to conquer others, then that is not trade and must be recognized for what it is - colonization and enhancement of the national interest. In China's case all its companies are a front for the advancement of the national intent of global power. Ever country has spy agencies. No country other than China has every company as an arm of its political and spy agencies.
14
Huawei so far has nothing on the British East India Company which took over India and, not to be forgotten forced China to accept imports of opium. Drug lord Escobar had nothing on the Company.
1
@CommonSenseEconomics China must did something right to make Americans so doubt of themselves. I didn't see people whining about China back in Clinton's era. It was the other way around. Um.. the dynamic changes.
3
What is the price for trade war? You.
1
Corporations set foriegn policy. We are now of, by, and for the Corporations.
7
I am little confused here, so please help me out. US came out of the Iran nuclear deal and slapped sanctions against Iran. That disagreement is between US and Iran; Other countries or companies may want to keep doing business with Iran if such companies have no ties with US or got an waiver from US if they have any US business ties. They may not be bound by US law. In such case why should an executive from such country/company be arrested from a 4th country? For example, as China may impose certain restrictions on Taiwan, can it tell Japan or Turkey to arrest an American business execute for doing business in Taiwan? There may be something more to it that are yet to come, but for now the scenario is not clear at all.
26
@Anur Darb It had to involve something US technology also, or something US law prohibits. Let's say it was an encryption algorithm held by a US inventor that was (legally) licensed to Huawei which then sold a product implementing this algorithm to Iran. Something like that.
1
"nationalist factions in the Trump administration"
It is utterly remarkable and intensely frightening that this can even be said about the US presidency.
Not only *can* it happen there, it already has.
6
Canadians have no self respect left as a nation trying to bend over backwards to lick the shoes of Trump administration by such actions which may amount to blatant human rights violations .This is after being repeatedly insulted and down right degraded by Trump as a nation.No wonder MBS threw shoes at Canadians on just a small comment by a Canadian minister ,having utmost confidence that Trump was on his side no matter how many critics he chops off into pieces in the name of ‘Make Saudi Arabia great again ‘.
13
@Anokhaladka
Canada has an extradition treaty with the US. We actually abide by our agreements.
Now up to the US to show cause. Our independent courts (don't know if you have those) will decide if there are grounds for actually handing the lady over to the US.
3
Surprise, surprise. Lots of China apologists completely ignoring the brutal practices of the Chinese fascist dictatorship, and drawing moral equivalence between the two countries just because of the Trump Derangement Syndrome. When an Uyghur can freely post on this message board, then they may have a point.
29
You mean, like Saudis? The one that just dismembered a dissident and we defended? Trump at least honestly claims national interest. Those talking up justice or value are just being plain hypocrates.
1
America has its own fascist problems.
We lock up far more people, mostly oppressed minorities, and we are a quarter of the size of China.
The level of US hypocrisy is scary.
1
Two observations:
Bolton, yet again, is the crazy person in the room. Knows this is happening, hangs Trumpy out to dry during his fancy dinner. Some National Security Adviser he is! I’m hoping that this will be the End of Bolton, as he is so dangerous. I suspect, like the cockroach he is, he will sadly survive.
And furthermore, like many commenters here: I have wondered how in the world we can expect other sovereign nations to abide by our sanctions against Iran? This is just ludicrous policy. We are really playing with Fire here.
30
Only the U.S. is allowed to do what we accuse the Chinese of.
This President and his corrupt gang of millionaires+ are probably the most rapacious self-dealing group of hustlers ever to occupy public office solely for private gain. With this bunch of rotten apples you can bet NSA eavesdropping is made available to parties and corporations wanting competitors' inside information- and probably compelled to pay cash to Trump's campaign chest for the goods.
Look back in history and show me what empire ruled forever. The U.S. shows no sign of defying this pattern. The stage is set to pass the baton to China. it is far better to yield the stage than to hold on for dear life at the risk of ending all life.
for national security is not sharing the?
their office to further enrich themselves.
8
I just wanna ask one thing: Is the arrest legal?
The West has been criticizing China for arresting people for no reason, but when the same thing happens on Canada soil you think it's d'accord.
15
@J
Of course it's legal as long as there is a warrant for her arrest. Whether she is guilty of anything is a different matter. We expect a hearing soon to see the charges and eventually a trial for the prosecution to show evidence.
In contrast, the Chinese police or party disciplinary officials can arrest a person in secret and without any warrant and keep him or her in custody for months or years without charges and trials. Even the person's family members are refused any information about his whereabouts. That happened to hundred thousands of Chinese dissents and millions of Uighur Muslims and Buddhist Tibetans. That's fascist, pure and simple.
15
@J
Yes, totally legal.
According to the 1921 treaty between the US and Canada:
- The American government must arrest and extradite to Canada any person who has an outstanding Canadian criminal warrant
- The Canadian government must arrest and extradite to the US any person who has an outstanding US criminal warrant
But, you didn't know this, did you?
1
@Mountain dweller
SOME Uighur Muslims and Buddhist Tibetans are arrested because the government believes they are linked to Xinjiang/Tibet independence. Xinjiang and Tibet are our legitimate territory and there's no reason for us to just let them go. Uighur and Tibetan people do not concern you. Plus, We didn't detain Zuckerberg, or his wife, when they visited.
China was a third rate country just about 20 years ago and now all of sudden China becoming a most publicized country in the world. Who is Meng Wanzhou? What is Huawei? What happened to America's leadership in the world? Are we becoming second class country now? China was one of the world's poorest countries during Ma Zedong days. Now everyday we worried about China's rise. Is this just China's propaganda? I been to China for the first time in 1972 shortly after President Nixon's historic visit to China. The Soviet Union is gone and the new Chinese Communist treat is in the making. Another cold war is coming? Is China really that powerful?
6
@Mclean4
You been asleep for the last 25 years? China has grown in population, economic market share, and military might.
Please pay more attention to global affairs. It’s a global game now. We are but one player on a large team.
Cooperation between players wins championships.....
@Mclean4
You ask: "Are we becoming second class country now?"
Yes.
2
China probably asked the US to arrest her. They love getting rid of people that have become too rich to control and now they can blame it on someone else.
10
Recently two French banks- BNP Paribas and societe General were charged for violation of sanctions on Iran, Cuba,etc.They were fined and case closed.There was no arrest of any executives.It is not clear of violation of sanctions carry sentence of imprisonment. Surely,there is incosistency in the treatment
of French and the Chinese. There is
more to to the story than reported.
Huawei has 5G networking equipment
and ready to sell every where. American
companies are not ready yet. If Huawei
places its equipment with mobile
phone companies, it will secure
significant lead agains American
companies. This arrest and crescendo
of Huawei being a security risk is
a preemptive action to stop this company. Everything is security risk
including steel and Aluminium from
Canada. The security is an excuse.
18
"“To detain someone without giving clear reason is an obvious violation of human rights,” Geng Shuang, a spokesman for China’s Foreign Ministry, said at a news conference on Thursday."
The statement is exactly right on as China never does that to its own citizens. Whenever they are detained most are charged with something like "inciting disturbance of social peace".
7
"The National Security Agency breached Huawei servers years ago in an effort to investigate its operations and its ties to Chinese security agencies and the military, and to create back doors so the N.S.A. could roam in networks around the globe wherever Huawei equipment was used."
Gee, isn't that against the law? Is someone going to go to jail for that?
13
In China, every corporation MUST have a seat for "the party", including foreign-owned corporations. This is official governmental spying, and to my mind should concern any business people looking to work in China.
I do not trust the Chinese, any more than I trust miners, loggers and oilmen (wishing to access public lands) who attempt to pacify opposition through sheer lies and "socialist" tactics.
4
“We’ve had enormous concern for years about ... the practice of Chinese firms to... to be used really as arms of the Chinese government’s objectives." - John Bolton
The irony is overwhelming, given the US's history of government and industry enmeshment in both domestic and foreign policy. Although perhaps there IS a difference: in the US, the firms run the government rather than the reverse. Perhaps the trend is for further blurring in China between government and corporate power.
And we know, if we'll recall history, what the marriage of government and the corporate means, and it ain't pretty...
11
An alternate SWIFT system will be in place in 5 years. In ten years, the USD will no longer be the worlds reserve currency.
19
@Martin Sloan
That depends on the stability of the alternate currency. If you are looking to the euro, you may be looking in the wrong place. And China is not necessarily any better, considering the trade problems they will have.
3
@Jim1648 -- It will be done as a basket, to average out problems. All discussions end up coming back to that.
And yes, the abuse that can't go on won't go on. The US has pushed it past all responsible limits.
5
@Mark Thomason
Well you need to pay your bills with some currency, so they would have to create a mythological super currency. Who would control it? That will be interesting.
1
Unless China was a signatory of an agreement to sanction Iran I do not see how we can prevent a Chinese company from trading with them or charge the woman with violating anything. What is the legal basis by which the US Justice Department can dictate policy on trade between a Chinese company and Iran? If the Chinese company's products were shipped from US soil to Iran I can see the grounds to charge them with a violation pf US sanctions against Iran. But otherwise how can the US have jurisdiction over such trades?
74
@William May
When Huawei imported parts and equipment together with technology from the US, it agreed to comply with US laws including export control regulations. It submitted itself to US jurisdiction. The US law enforcement can go after Huawei if the company violated such laws and regulations. In addition, there were UN sanctions against Iran which may authorize US government or any governments to enforce embargo against violators.
10
@William May The USA is the country of God and has the right to tell all countries whom to trade with.
5
@William May
One of the preconditions to buying certain items from the US is adherence to the sanctions. For example, some high end semiconductor chips are made in the US, or by US companies.
I suspect that Huawei is being accused of what caught up ZTE -- that is, agreeing to export control on purchased items (lets say chips) and then not living up to that agreement. ZTE got caught, and agreed to make corrective actions. The "death penalty" came when they were found to have lied about implementation of those corrective actions.
I personally think the president and his cabinet's approach with China is brilliant. And this is coming from someone who did not cast his vote for him. The Chinese government has established a pattern of intellectual theft from the US and many others. They operate without any legitimate labor laws, and they have no regard for human rights. This has given them the upper hand in almost every industry (including national defense where, among other things, they've set up satellites in Latin America to spy on certain countries to the north) and created a lopsided trade balance in their favor with virtually every nation. This is the first administration to go toe to toe with them, putting them on the defense. And it's long overdue.
12
Literally, you are talking about the United States of America and its practices. “Spying other countries” the USA and the Intel agencies have been doing that for ages.
24
You are right on the issue ! Who brings dirty revolutions in the world with dirty money toppling democratically elected governments through CIA while preaching democracy.
Iran , Egypt ,Pakistan are few examples . Installing Shah of Iran , Gen .Zia Ul Haq and Gen.Sisi respectively . Hypocrisy at its best !
7
I agree, none of the previous three administration put a priority on China. Trillions of dollars moved to China as a result of the aroumous trade deficit.
It's about time that somebody draw a line in the send.
6
I'm unsure about who is in the right or wrong here with this for there is not enough information. The one thing I am sure of is that I would not want to be an American businessman within China right now.
11
Like others, I have wondered about the apparent extra territoriality reach of this law. Obviously it is not a crime in China (nor I suspect Canada) to dishonor the US boycott of Iran. I suspect the answer ( and I invite other comments on this point) is that it was a US subsidiary of Huawei that shipped the forbidden fruit to Iran, and Ms. Wanzhou is a principal thereof. A US company is bound by US law, even if wholly owned by a foreign company (see Deutsche Bank and UBS) and if its officers violate local law they are subject to prosecution.
8
@Jsailor Huawei buys the chips used in its products from the US. They cannot be exported to Iran. If they built their own chips without infringing on any US IP (haha), then you would have a point.
7
This is from the country where all the major tech companies are actively spying on their customers or building backdoors for the US government? Furthermore, the matter derives from a treaty the US is trying to sabotage, but which other major world powers support. There is simply no moral high ground, just pure old sinophobia and American extortion.
21
Can not imagine a democratic country to conduct this kind of behavior.
13
The legal irony of all the Republicans' "race-war" gambits is actually already mentioned in this very same NYTimes' last sentence of this same news article:
"The National Security Agency breached Huawei servers years ago in an effort to investigate its operations and its ties to Chinese security agencies and the military, and to create back doors so the N.S.A. could roam in networks around the globe wherever Huawei equipment was used."
O the hilarity of white supremacy and running global surveillance & internment programs. Which is so very "Communistic" of our geniuses-filled Trump gang.
Amusing trade-war beneficial only for opportunistic Trump-insiders.
Godless Best,
A.E.
Projectheureka LLC;
9
Google, NSA and China all playing the same game on us. Facebook has done more damage here than China. Facebook gets rich off of American gullibility and stupidity, meanwhile there is Trump. Danger is all around us with Donald in the Oval.
11
Really disgusting. We will fight till truth comes out.
8
Global accountability for illicit state-sponsored white-collar crime is hopefully gaining acceptance. If Huawei (or Deutche Bank) flagrantly breaks our laws its chief executives must be prosecuted. That should become the new norm in international commerce. Habitual offenders should be banned from selling their products in the West.
Stronger country-of-origin labeling will enable American consumers to reject products imported from offending countries. The threat of market failure the best deterrent to bad actors in China or elsewhere.
China uses its influence to dissuade its citizens from purchasing products from the United States, promoting boycotts.
American consumers should be able to intelligently decide to boycott products from authoritarian and offending countries. Revamped country-of-origin labeling would empower us to vote with our wallets.
9
I would be very surprised if Ms Meng gets extradited to the US. I'd be prepared to bet money it doesn't happen.
No Canadian court is going to believe that American laws apply outside the territorial US - stuff like 'breaking US sanctions' isn't a crime in Canada and civil torts, breach of contract and the like, are almost never recognised globally as grounds for extradition. Meng is Huawei's CFO so it's unlikely a court will believe that she's personally responsible for IP theft.
That's all before Mr Trump's polite, refined and respectful attempts to maintain good relations with Canada and Canadians in general.
It may be that the DoJ has evidence that Ms Meng is guilty of espionage. That IS grounds for extradition. But given that the NSA has spied extensively on Huawei in China AND damaged some of Huawei's development efforts, any such charge will make just about any American associated with telecomms fair game for the Chinese security and law enforcement machine.
Tit for tat nearly always ends in tears.
42
Huawei stole everything from Nortel and Cisco, then flooded the market selling the same products at 1/3 the cost because the CCP backstopped them and they didn’t have to worry about profits.
1
Just having come back from Australia, it was refreshing to hear a different point of view on China and Trump. An Australian who does business in China and frequently travels there liked that Trump was upsetting the apple cart with China. Why? Because from his point of view China doesn't play fair ever and doesn't have the constraints or oversight of democratic countries -- intellectual property thief is rampant and encouraged, stopping other countries businesses from gaining entry into their market is the rule of the land. Spying for the country is a standard requirement, planting spy wear in the simplest gadgets made there is common place. Sounds like a John le Carre or Ian Fleming novel...maybe, but no not really. Does the US have anyone checking for this when the new technology arrives here form China? This stuff is happening. The problem we have is Trump doesn't understand his limitations. He could respect the experts and get something done, but he always puts his foot in it because he needs to be the center of attention. Please stop tweeting Mr. President! Dow Jones 800 push down with your tweeting, when will you learn? Senior citizens rely on the market for retirement. Remember? Just because Trump is seriously unqualified to be President doesn't mean he does hit on issues that may need to be dealt with and maybe head on. Now Republican party start giving us candidates worth voting for and stop blaming our state of affairs on the Democrats.
12
Most IP is given to the chinese by western companies as a condition for doing business there. This happens much more often than IP being stolen. As far as I know, no one is required to do business with china (your australian friend included). So why do businesses do business with china? Greed and short-sightedness come to mind.... and the fact that usa has actually "forgotten" how to manufacture many things they require. Industrial policy is required - not trade wars!
1
This is yet another proof that it is time for the EU, China, Japan, India, Russia, Brazil and possibly others to cooperate and put an end to U.S. economic bullying. American politics and American society will not. Too deeply ingrained is the American belief in American exceptionalism and superiority, especially moral superiority, regardless of reality. Too naturally does the sense of entitlement to dominating and bullying other nations come to so many Americans. I don't mean Trump voters in the first place. I mean people like the retired air force general quoted in this article. He thinks that by giving Ms. Weng due process, America can prove its interest in a liberal international order. By unilaterally trashing international agreements, by then imposing unilateral economic sanctions in direct violation to an international treaty that the rest of the world (except Israel and Saudi-Arabia) wants to keep, by using its power to bully allies and rivals alike and companies world wide into going along with this and trading only with countries of America's choice, by having a foreign executive whose foreign company is suspected of trading with another foreign country more than America wants, by having her arrested on foreign soil, extradited to the U.S., America can then prove its commitment to a liberal order by fairly investigating her violations of American policies? It is this twisted thinking from "reasonable" Americans that shows that only outside pressure will bring change.
51
Lol, if you think we’re bad wait till you get a kid of China!
@Mike
You are perfectly proving my point. Thank you.
But yes, China is causing concern here. Especially because of technology theft. Nobody here wants to be a "kid of China". However, until a few years ago, we had quite a few "atlanticists" who thought being a kid of America is not that bad. They are realizing their mistake. We are all starting to understand that there are only abusive "parents" out there, and the U.S. is one of those. So the E.U. must work hard to get rid of its dependence from the U.S.
3
@Andreas
You can tell an American but you cant tell them much.
Excellent analysis. Thank you.
Hopefully the Chinese will retaliate by having an American " businessman" arrested. I modestly suggest that they start with Donald, Jr., Ivanka and Eric Trump along with Jared Kushner and Lara Trump and Jr.'s girlfriend
It is the only way to really MAGA. To see if we can survive without their hidden secret genius. I suspect that all could be very easily replaced by ice cubes.
27
@Blackmamba reasonable suggestion, they can be caught as they transit Hong Kong.
2
Winner of the Commenters today!! Brilliant.
I suggest Jared Kushner. He is close enough, what with being the husband of the favored child Ivanka and her Brand, that he should be the one.
2
Donald has no idea what he is doing. Chaos is everywhere; getting worse by the day. This will not end well. Ray Sipe
15
Travel advisory to American CEOs. Do not Travel to China and Hong Kong. You could get arrested.
9
If she had been carrying a bone saw she would have gotten a pass.
93
Since the US has withdrawn the other parties can do what they want; there is no global constitution or laws against what China is doing. In fact, our withdrawal opens many avenues for both China and Iran ... how dumb can we be? djm
15
First MBS locked up the Saudi elite and extorted them....then his government dismantled a journalist in a foreign country.
Now Trump has locked up a Chinese business executive in a foreign country.
What do you think will happen next?
10
He is so very adept at conflict! Surely an example for us all. Let us just beware he doesn't sucker us into a war so he can be re-elected in 2020!
5
How is this even possible? A Chinese citizen is arrested in Canada for trading with a country that the US doesn’t approve. The US is a bully. And Canada is a lackey. The rest of the world needs to boycott the US to teach the bully a lesson to mind it’s own business within its own borders.
15
Canada has no choice but to arrest a person the US wants extradited. We have a treaty on that and unlike the US treaties are honored by Canada. It is now up to a Canadian court to examine the evidence that she committed a crime in the US which would also be considered a crime in Canada. If that evidence is convincing she will be rendered to US authorities, otherwise she will be released. My guess is that the US has no evidence that she committed a crime on US soil and that this is just a childish harassment technique dreamed up by Trump or one of his lackeys.
3
@shoe smuggler
I understand the extradition treaty, but how does the US even have jurisdiction over her? She’s a Chinese citizen. Her company does business with Iran. Tough luck if the US doesn’t like that. US wants to ban HuaWei from the US? Fine. But arresting an executive of a company of another country in a second country is hubris beyond belief. The rest of the world needs to isolate the US as a gangster regime.
4
@W Smith
I hope you are equally outraged when China routinely does this to foreigners. Right now they are preventing 2 American born Chinese from leaving the country to pressure their father to return for supposed crime s.
2
Why am I not surprised , when obviously given a choice, that they grabbed a woman.
4
“To detain someone without giving clear reason is an obvious violation of human rights,” Geng Shuang, a spokesman for China’s Foreign Ministry, said at a news conference on Thursday.
Pot, meet kettle!
15
Steal another nation's trade secrets? Pha-leese.
Google "Samuel Slater." He's the British textile engineer who in the early 1800s stole that country's most precious trade secret -- the powered cotton spinning loom. Andrew Jackson called him the "father of America's industrial revolution." The British (to this day) call him "Traitor Slater."
12
@Marek Edelman
An excellent point.
There we have, on the cusp of the century, a global superpower trying to intimidate a lesser country, that lesser country growing rapidly and desperate for advanced technology to support its own fledgling industrial revolution. Not only intimidating, but putting embargoes and sanctions on exports of high tech from the huge area (and population) that the superpower controls, criminalising the transfer of IP and even banning skilled people from travelling to the upstart nation. Oh, and prohibiting imports from that lesser country and even twisting the arms of its neighbour nations to stop them buying those exports too.
Sounds familiar? Only, that's Great Britain and its Empire trying to derail America's technological growth around 1800. And look how successful that was.
A lesson there, perhaps?
8
USA will get what it deserves in the end.
3
Economic sanctions against other sovereign nations are equivalent to acts of war and should be strictly forbidden. They go against the letter and spirit of the Atlantic Charter signed in 1941.
Economic sanctions against Russia led to Russian covert actions leading to an assault on our 2016 election. Economic sanctions against Iran will breed a generation of Iranians bitter and hateful towards the American/Saudi/Israeli alliance. Such neo-imperialistic strains in American foreign policy have been weaponized by Trump in pursuit of his 'America First' agenda.
4
So let me get this right... Trump and company are having a bird about Iran who has no nukes and doing nothing about North Korea? Do you think it might have something to do with the US being owned by Israel?
16
"To detain someone without giving clear reason is an obvious violation of human rights,” Geng Shuang, a spokesman for China’s Foreign Ministry, said at a news conference on Thursday.
Uh, looks like the reason was the Huawei sold licensed American technology to Iran violating American law. America is a place that Huawei does business (eg licensing business) so I guess this means the Huawei does not "comply with local laws where it operates".
Probably happened because Huawei and the Chinese cyberhackers had not yet stolen the plans for all these technologies from American companies.
Just because Mitch McConnell cheated on Merrick Garland's supreme court nomination, and just because the Wisconsin legislature just cheated on the stripping Gubernatorial powers in that state, both fine with President Trump's moral compass, does not mean that we allow cheating by the Chinese!
3
@Will Hogan
OK, so disbar Huawei from the approved list of licensees in the US.
The fact that Huawei does business in the US doesn't mean that US laws apply to Huawei outside the US.
Don't forget that a Canadian court is going to decide just how far US law reaches.
2
An article about how this company is doing illegal stuff and are a security risk that ends with a paragraph describing how the USA spy organization, the NSA, illegally broke into the Huawei computer network so they could set up a global spy network. Very rich indeed.
11
China accusing another nation of human rights violations? Oh the delicious irony.
5
What Iranian sanctions? Thought that the US pulled out of the Global deal?
5
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the alpha-white-male Trump administration arrested a FEMALE executive?
7
For some strange reason the signature tune of “The Godfather” started ringing in my head while reading the story.
1
The real question is why do Americans still think anyone should listen to us about anything?
10
@Mike -- Don't imagine that they do.
1
@Mike They do and will continue to do so.
Dealing dirt with Iran is the most the Feds can come up with on China? Notice the final paragraph about the NSA and their subterfuge? Whenever you read about Russia or China doing dirt you might as well put US in , because they are all doing dirt, and fot theUS it isnt for national sovereignty and the pursuit of freedom and democracy but for world domination of international bankers, etc.
4
Huawei built its business by "misappropriating" Intellectual Property from Canada's Nortel. Nortel was hacked repeatedly and had its trade secrets compromised by Huawei. I have no pity for that firm or for their CFO. These people should have been arrested a long time for corporate espionage.
https://www.afr.com/technology/web/security/how-chinese-hacking-felled-telecommunication-giant-nortel-20140526-iux6a
6
Did Trumps interaction team bring a bone saw with them? Apparently it's ok to.
1
"...and hitting China with tariffs on $250 billion worth of Chinese goods...".
Trump makes it sound like the Chinese are paying $250 billion in tariffs or import taxes when in fact import taxes are paid by the American corporations that are importing products from China, which typically will be added to the retail cost paid by American consumers.
In other words, Trump's import taxes will cost American consumers $250 billion, not the Chinese exporters or the Chinese government.
If Trump doesn't get this, he's guilty of economic malpractice that will hit American consumers the hardest. If his top advisors haven't set him straight they're either complicit in Trump's belligerent ignorance or acting on some hidden agenda.
The NYTimes, however, knows better than to simply repeat Trump's (intentional or unintentional) lie about tariffs. Mr. Wong (and his editor) would do well to discuss his reporting on tariffs with Dr. Paul Krugman so he doesn't -- like the media do constantly -- simply amplify Trump's wrong-headed concept of import taxes.
The real story here is the total chaos and anarchy at the top of Trump's administration with Bolton and his cabal of war mongers effectively sabotaging negotiations with China. It's the only reason Trump got caught with his pants down while negotiating a trade war truce with Chairman Xi. China's uncertainty about who's in charge has just been confirmed.
This kind of stuff is dry kindling for a conflagration that burns everyone.
15
I'm not a fan of Trump or this administration, but I think they're right to punish Chinese citizens and corporations for stealing IP, flouting US sanctions, and unfair trade practices.
Unfortunately, his unpredictability is not an asset, nor is his lack of faith in multilateral institutions, when it comes to artfully guiding the rise of another superpower to lead (or simply peacefully coexist) alongside America.
Is it inevitable that two great powers eventually go to war?
3
Not defending Trump or anything, but as someone of Chinese descent, I find the idea that China's claim to care about human rights violations is laughable. Just another example of how rights are only given to the wealthy and influential.
4
But, she IS wealthy and influential
As a Canadian I am appalled that our government would arrest a foreign business executive on a layover at a Canadian airport because the executive's company is alleged to have transgressed U.S. sanctions against Iran.
Since when did we become Trump's pitbull in his trade war with China?
And especially since this is the president who, in order to impose steel and aluminum tariffs on Canadians, declared that Canada is a security threat to the U.S.
59
Maybe you should tend to your own backyard first. China owns your entire west coast, and a large portion of Toronto as well.
1
@Mike if anyone needs to tend to backyards it is the U.S. Infrastructure, freedom to vote, healthcare, environmental protections, income inequality, racial violence, political intolerance, good lord talk about calling the kettle black. We have no business lecturing Canada about anything.
This article fails to explain a substantial question that troubles me; from where does the right to arrest someone who ostensibly ignores US imposed sanctions on Iran emanate?. I understood the other signatories to the treaty with Iran still intended to abide by its terms. Does the US, based upon the word (whim) of our president now claim the right to capture and jail anyone in the world who fails to bend to the current whims of our president? I thought that our ability to punish someone who violated the sanctions would be limited to imposing sanctions on the violator...not imprisonment!
A claim to a supposed 'right' to jail someone who 'violates' US sanctions is not only despicable, but absurd. If any other country imposed sanctions on another country, and a US citizen violated those sanction, would they fairly be subject to arrest and jailing while our government would do or say nothing?
7
I'm not clear on how the US can enact laws domestically and have people arrested and brought to this country from outside its borders to face charges.
Does that mean that, oh say, Finland can enact a law that says using child labor in third world countries to manufacture fashion items is against its laws and have the FBI arrest Ivanka and extradite her to Finland to face charges there?
I can understand denying somebody to do trade in US currency if they offend the US, but arrest persons across borders for alleged violation of US domestic laws? That sounds wrong to me. I'll bet you that sounds seriously wrong to the Chinese. I don't think they'll take this sitting down.
9
If nations give in to the type of bullying Trump and Bolton do, it will encourage them to do more. I hope these nations stand up to them. What right do we have to tell them to whom they can sell and buy.
5
What's the argument in favor of allowing China or anyone else to steal our intellectual property?
5
This arrest is a violation of international law. What right do we have to forbid China to trade with Iran?
Unless Meng Wanzhou is immediately released, the trade war with China will get worse.
Trade wars tax the bottom 90 percent of both countries. They also can lead to cold wars, and cold wars can start hot wars.
9
@Kevin Cahill
Kidnapping Manuel Noriega from Panama was not only an act of war against another sovereign country but, according to the UN, 'a gross breach of international law.'
I've long observed that America believes that international law only apply to other countries.
8
I feel bad that Canada is caught up in the middle of this, but if the US has a lawful order to arrest for extradition, the mutual agreement to do so exists for both countries.
Not knowing the particulars of this accusation, Canadians should not forget the likely role China played in the downfall or Nortel through intellectual spying. Some sort of subterfuge is par for the course for many Chinese international companies.
The chances of total innocence here are slim, the things coming out since the arrest suggest there was plenty of good cause.
The fact Trump was seemingly in the dark (what else is new) regarding an arrest taking place as he was shaking President Xi Jinping's hand looks horrible.
3
@Dan
I have no doubt a Canadian court will respond correctly to a lawful request for extradition. America doesn't 'order' foreign courts.
However, on the facts in the article, there don't yet appear to be any lawful grounds for extradition.
The US appears to be grossly overstepping its bounds here. Why is it illegal for a a Chinese citizen to have a deal with Iran just because the US welched on its own deal with Iran? The US should not treat the world like it is under its rule.
14
Recognize the Chinese for who they are - thieves. They steal because it's a cultural hallmark and because they are unable to invent technologies themselves. Exploiting this truism should be the West's advantage, not another reason to kowtow.
4
@Tiger shark - suggest you bone up on China's history - thousands of years of it - paper, silk, printing, gunpowder, quantum entanglement communications. Then check the comment about "traitor Slater", above. They are just as bright, and not carrying the dead weight of the anti-science of a third of the US population.
2
History repeats itself. The British puts down China 17th and 18th centuries in the opium era with devastating results to China. Now, it is USA's and Canada's turn.
4
Is there any reason to believe Bolton? And, if so, who is in charge of our China policy? If it's Bolton, God help us - and the rest of the planet.
6
I hope Trump and this latest problem with China gets us into long recession . The GOP culture of corruption followed a failed tariff policy from 1932 and they made our allies mad at us and now the not so bright GOP of today are in the same boat. Only trouble this time around lots of pensions are involved in the stock market and you are all going to loose big. Keep voting for GOP failures and you will reap what you sow.
6
What's at the heart of this is that the Communist Chinese do not appreciate that intellectual Property is PROPERTY which is conceived of and owned by individuals and companies. This notion goes against their grain.
They are communists. In their mind everything belongs to everybody, or should I say that everything belongs to The State, which ostensibly belongs to The People, ("People's Republic of China", the PRC, it's official name), when in reality everything belongs to their illegitimate dictators like Xi, (who appointed himself" President For Life"), and his oligarch cronys.
That's what Trump is dealing with, the outright theft of our property. This has gone on long enough. If the Chinese were not stealing our inventions and innovations they'd still be making the defective, cheap junk that they'd been flooding the market with for years.
4
I fail to understand how this arrest is a good idea. We have been doing business in China for decades now, and we barely blink an eye when they abuse their workers with poor labor conditions and lousy wages; now that China is realistically threatening a leap forward on 5G technology, the U.S. get its knickers in a twist. That is the real reason for this arrest: we don’t want any competition.
The fact that lots of European countries are doing business with Iran, probably a lot of it under the table, doesn’t seem to phase anyone in the State Department. Who would we arrest? Theresa May or Emmanuel Macron?
6
@Bevan Davies
Right now, most of the adult population of the UK wishes someone would come and arrest Theresa May. I expect those French 'yellow jackets' think the same about Macron.
Picking up Meng for violating Iran sanctions is just a premise to punish a major Chinese company for what is really under the Administration's skin which is the theft by China of American intellectual property, which the Chinese have do to date with impunity.
3
Huawei foolishly did not follow the tried and true "script" in successfully dealing with our Fake President. It failed to secretly dangle a generous offer to provide financing for the construction of a gleaming, new Trump Tower in downtown Beijing to him, or his kids. The now detained Ms. Meng, and her father, have only themselves to blame for their personal and corporate troubles. Didn't they realize whom they were dealing with, the "pay to play" Leader of the Free World. This is Trump's America folks!
5
Well, there goes that ‘beautiful’ Trump-Xi relationship.
1
Who is the next U.S. business person looking forward to a trip to China?
Does the administration care?
4
China could place sanctions on Canada for whatever reason and then start having Apple execs arrested because Apple sells iphones made in China in Canada.
Many comments about this situation have read like this one: "That sounds like some kind of joke -- The People's Republic accusing the U.S.... of 'human rights violations'".
As a Chinese American, I find this appallingly and terrifyingly racist . Are we really saying that because China ignores basic human rights when governing its' own citizens, that we can feel free to abuse Chinese nationals too? That somehow this is appropriately punishing China? Imagine China making a similar argument after Chinese police randomly gun down an African American tourist, "Who are they to lecture us about this when they do it in their country all the time?".
If we hold these attitudes to be reasonable, it doesn't take too much imagination to think that one day, a fellow citizen will do something to me in the name of punishing China.
7
Considering that most of our gadgets, proprietary to western companies, have the capability to spy on me as a user, and because most of these gadgets are assembled or have intrinsic components made in China, aren’t the Chinese spying on me anyway?
Many of Huawei’s top executives are westerners too, so, by inference, we’re accusing them of treachery when, in fact, espionage is apparently normal business practise when other tech companies based in the West do it. British Army MTP pattern military combat clothing is made in China, so the West isn’t particularly concerned about giving up defence secrets to a foreign power. What do they fear 5G will reveal, and what will it reveal to domestic entities about we, the users, when it kicks in?
2
I’m glad that the US and Canada are cooperating to counter the fiendish espionage capabilities of Huawei and China. I only want to be spied on by Apple, Google, Facebook, Amazon, my employer, my television, fridge, car, smartwatch, or any other corporate entity, gadget, or government department that considers my private details to be fair game, because they’re westernised and are, therefore, fully democratic and wholly altruistic.
12
I think in the end it is U.S. exceptionalism that will be on trial. At this point, though, it seems all the U.S. has to offer the world is brute force, which is so common.
3
Senator Ben Sasse accuses Meng Wanzhou of "breaking U.S. sanctions against Iran." Have any formal charges been filed? Is there an active arrest warrant? Is there an open indictment?
If not, there was no justification for Canada to detain her on a flight transfer, she should be released immediately and not extradited to the United States.
Canada is ill-served by falling into the trap by playing Mr. Tariff Man's incoherently counterproductive game of trade conflict.
8
As a general rule, no country should buy anything from China related to computers and communications. China should be the last country to talk about human rights violations. In China, anybody can be arrested with manufactured evidence. Any technology that country sells is either a stolen or forcibly extracted technology. Therefore, it violates American sanctions and so an arrest is warranted. China may resort to in kind response. We have all kinds of problems with China from trade, security and free navigation in South China Sea. I am glad Trump taking the hard stand and will be very disappointed if he tucks his tail and runs.
3
How can the U.S. justify an arrest of the CEO of a Chinese company, or any other nation's executive, or even a assembly person if their nation has not entered into a sanctions agreement against a third country? So far the U.S. is the only participant in the Iran nuclear weapons "agreement" which is an all voluntary handshake by 6 individual nations to ask Iran to suspend any nuclear weapons development programs in exchange for lifting previously implimented sanctions that brought that Islamic state into an "agreement," not an enforcible treaty. The UN is not a signatory to this agreement either and thus there is no universally enforcable consequences.
A U.S. company can be held liable under our laws. But how does our legal system have jurisdiction over any other country.
This is a naked, broad daylight, bogus arrest of a foreign national that we have no legal right in which to interfere iwith its global business pursuits.
9
You cannot separate this arrest from the hands off treatment accorded the Saudi “Prince” MBS. Murder is excused for an ally, but our most important trade ALLY and competitor is met not with sanctions or negotiations, but criminal detention. Trump denied prior knowledge, but apparently Bolton admitted to prior knowledge of the arrest warrant. He had to advise Trump of the pending arrest regardless of his denial.
Trump’s business empire was dysfunctional, often ending in bankruptcy and ruin for his lenders, investors and customers. He had promised to bring his business acumen to the White House. That is a promise he has kept; his administration is dysfunctional and our economy and our reputation are suffering just as his business partners have.
3
NYT, please explain why/how the US thinks its embargo on Iran should apply to any other nation. Do we really think we have the right to tell China who it can trade with? This comes from an administration that has disavowed American hegemony?
6
@Gioco They can't trade if they are using US made computer chips. Pretty simple to understand.
In the past, America at least tried to put a spin on their foreign policy. Her actions was for the sake of “freedom” and “democracy”.
At least Trump is honest. It’s all about America First, and the containment of China. No need for justification.
2
There is no need to make the situation that is already complex appearing even hazier than it actually is by injecting elements that have no direct connection to the event such as Trump's qualification as a POTUS. The situation is pretty standard. Someone with suspected involvement in criminal corporate activities is spotted as travelling through a country which is equipped with transparent legal procedures to validate/invalidate US DOJ requests. The person may have come from Europe to Canada on her way to PRC (to be verified as no media has explicitly reported on from where she arrived at YVR). Some European nations have resisted in the past US extradition requests and that may be the reason for DOJ to rely on Canada. Canadian judiciary will not judge on the substance of DOJ charges. If Canada rejected this US request, it would have been an explicit political act. Contrary to what Global Times and other CCP mouthpiece claim, Canada is not taking any pre-judged position vis-à-vis this arrest. If extradition occurs, then enough details will be reported on all aspects of Huawei operations over the years in dark corners of the world.
1
May I be forgiven for anticipating that both the leaders of China and the US will end up blaming Canada for so quickly and efficiently responding to their neighbor's legal request to have Ms. Meng arrested and extradited.
1
The United States has systematically allowed the Chinese to steal our technology, spy on our tech companies, ignore copyright law and patents and use every unfair trade practice ever devised -- all in the name of avoiding a confrontation that might have negative short term political and economic implications. But, guess what? All that cowardice has hurt American workers and eroded our place in the world, while allowing the Chinese to shortcut their way to near economic parity.
I'm no Trump supporter -- didn't vote for him, never would -- but every now and then I saw "why is this the only national leader in decades with the courage to stand up for something ?"
4
I can just see those Chinese cyber hacks -- for which we are probably woefully under-prepared -- coming with greater frequency.
So now we're adding a trade war to the two unnecessary wars we're fighting in the Middle East. I think we could end up being 0 for 3.
When the stock market tanked, at least we got Trump's attention on this international mistake. Money is the only language he speaks. To Trump, the stock market may have an influence more powerful than his base.
5
Destined for War: Can America and China Escape Thucydides's Trap? (by Graham T. Allison) does a great job outlining the real risk and consequences we face. This is not a game to be played lightly. History has it that it's likely to end badly.
The US is use to being a sole dominant power. We are use to getting our way. China is a raising power that is likely to challenge us now and more so in the near future. The rules we wrote are not the rules they will play by. Why should they be? This game can only be won through cooperation with each side giving in and making concession. Policy hawks on both side may be popular but they'll lose the game every time. The consequence of getting it wrong are likely devastating for everyone.
What's needed here is leadership, not hawks.
22
I'm sort of surprised at the fact Bolton didn't tell President Trump if he was going to be dining with President Xi.
Will the president lash out at Bolton for this? I can see that if Xi feels he was taken for a ride during their private dinner meeting.
I'm imagining Donald Trump may not be entirely attentive on all this because if the Russia investigation. Which makes the market slump and China tariffs all that more serious if a frazzled president isn't able to focus the way he should.
15
@ChristineMcM Maybe the Canadians kept it a secret. Some nation's leaders don't tell everything they know.
@ChristineMcM
Since when is he focusing?
1
@ChristineMcM
Trump would have mentioned the pending arrest to Xi unintentionally.
1
"Mr. Trump has prioritized .... curbing China’s rise as a technological powerhouse"
Trump is a moron!
89
This will be seen in China as an act of neo-colonial racism, a personal insult to the Chinese people.
Jurisdiction is an issue for the Canadian courts concerning extradition, and for the conservative, originalist US Supreme Court.
Did the writers of the Constitution intend to arrest an executive from China, while the executive is in Canada, for alleged acts done in Iran, or done is some other extra-territorial location?
75
@Robin Foor
I agree with this point. I do not believe the Chinese have ethics similar to ours, but how does the USA pursue foreign business executives for doing things that are legal in their countries?
12
@Herb
In the same way that China would pursue US executives in the reverse situation.
China, at least, accepts that there is a limit to its reach.
5
@Herb Their ethics are much higher than Trump's and Bolton's.
5
Why on earth should the rest of world cease to have commerce with Iran when the US unilaterally pulled out the Iran deal for no real reason. The rest of of signers remain in the Iran deal and the EU is actively looking for a way around the US sanctions. I for one hope they succeed and Iran benefits for complying with the conditions set forth in the deal.
362
@George
It depends what you mean by the 'rest of the world'.
The EU administration in Brussels is absolutely resolute in continuing to support the Iran nuclear deal. It also absolutely rejects extraterritorial US 'laws' on American sanctions - it's not going to be told who it can trade with.
All very well except these 'laws' don't apply to Brussels but they do apply to big Eurocorporates like Siemens and Barclays who have already run up the white flag to Washington.
14
@George
George, do you understand Iran is by far the largest spreading terror and instability throughout the Middle East?
They are treating our ships in the Gulf, developing nukes to wipe out Saudi Arabia and Israel and holding American hostages.
1
@George
That is what empires do
7
She apparently didn't file the right paperwork with the right people. And by paperwork, I mean huuuuuge bundles of Cash. Or, buy several extremely overpriced "luxury" Condos from a certain Family Brand.
Seriously.
304
@Phyliss Dalmatian So true. Maybe if she promises to order the murder of a journalist, Mr. Trump will pardon her.
No love lost for Chinese capitalism, but the DOJ should specify the charges and statutes involved in this detention. Otherwise, it has the look and smell of authoritarianism.
103
@David Schock
Don't worry.
The DoJ will have to make the extradition case in a Canadian court to a judiciary which is fully independent of the executive.
The charges will have to be made public.
3
@David Schock
"Before Ms. Meng was arrested, Justice Department officials notified the White House office of legal counsel, according to an administration official."
White House legal counsel is otherwise preoccupied a bit right now... Tomorrow is Friday, after all.
5
@David Schock didn’t the media say the reason the charges were not released was due to publication ban at the request of Meng?! So Canada court did Meng a favor by not releasing more details.
Contrast what Trump did with the Saudi Prince murdering a US based journalist, and the targeting of this lady for a possible export law violation involving Iran.
Trump sees the Saudi Prince as anti-Iran and good for Israel so he gets a pass. Trump's anti-Iran obsession is all about Israel.
Trump's foreign policy is determined by Israel's interests, not America's interests.
301
@David
Call Xi and have him buy a couple of hundred billions of US arms or at least publicly sign deals for doing that sometime in future. Problem solved.
3
@David
You nailed it.
This will come back to bite Trump. It was a stupid move on the part of the DOJ and the Treasury/Commerce departments. I wonder if the State department approved.
The most dangerous person in the Trump admin right now is Peter Navarro - an anti-China fear-mongering "academic" with zero experience in geopolitics, zero credentials in trade, zero first hand knowledge of China, zero language skills in Mandarin, and moreover, he sounds like Steve Bannon, another pontificator with no qualifications or credibility.
7
Trump’s foreign policy interests are not determined by Israel’s. They are determined by Trump’s financial interests and the needs of his own fragile ego.
2
This is a great day in America. The Chinese government doesn't give a dang of the sanctions and laugh in our face everyday we close our eyes on their crimes as we never sanction the bad guys that enable Iran murderous regime to go on with their criminal behavior in the European Union, around the Middle-East, Argentina, Libanon,and everywhere they sprout. China and Iran are two murderous regimes that must be sanctioned severely before they become two close allies such as Germany and Japan were at a time of great dangers for our free world. China has established a system of prison-work that is made of millions of workers-for-free making all kinds of items dumped in around the world. For too long China and Iran got away with murder on grand scale. For too long Canada and the US kneeled before the Comunist Party, now it's time for a change only the US can bring about with its allies, if Mr. Trump can remember them and treat them like family.
27
@Joseph Louis - Whilst I'm no fan of the Chinese way of doing business, I entirely fail to see what right the US thinks it has to tell China what it can and cannot do in its trading relations with other states. The exception might be if Huawei has violated some contractual agreement not to disseminate any US technology that it might have been granted access to. But we don't know what Huawei is alleged to have done.
5
@Joseph Louis
The European Union?
Oh, please. The EU has spent years brokering a 'peaceful use' nuclear deal with Iran - a deal to which President Obama put his signature.
Mr Trump has petulantly walked away from this commitment and is now attempting to bully and threaten his European 'allies' into junking the deal too.
I wouldn't bank on overwhelming support from Europe over Iran.
5
@Joseph Louis
This is not how a hegemonic power stays relevant. If we tout ourselves as the bastion of liberalism and free thought, we need to actually embody these ideals. Dehumanizing countries we disagree with gives the populace more reason to refuse cooperation. Iran has been heavily sanctioned for decades. Being cut-off from international commerce has devastating consequences for any nation. The people of China and Iran are regular people. Like us, they have families, hopes, dreams, and struggles. They are already living under heavily censored regimes. If we continue to vilify them, they will be more susceptible to support their oppressive governments. This is why the European Union had been trying to re-integrate Iran into the world stage. They believed that communication rather than punishment would incentivize the Iranian government to make concessions. We need to remember our role in the 50-60’s to understand why Iran’s government may not trust us. The world backed Saddam and supplied weapons for his war of aggression against Iran. Now, by frivolously pulling out of the nuclear deal, we’ve given their government more power over its people, as they can point to our actions and say “look, they want us to suffer, we abided by their rules”.
I think its time we admit our foreign policy is not working as intended. As it stands, we are the aggressors.
8
Once again, the spectre of trade "war", not negotiation, is raised to focus this lens on President Trump and not, properly, the CFO of a global company that may have had criminal activities detrimental to world security?
In the first place, negotiations are subject to myriad steps forward and steps back as parties to them seek leverage. They are not now, nor ever were, "wars".
In the second place, how is it fine and dandy for the Mueller inquisition to wreck lives aimlessly, yet acceptable for scheming foreign execs to skate free of scrutiny?
2
First of all, trade war was Trump’s turn from the start. Second of all, the investigation is into criminal activity, much of which has already been admitted.
Lock her up!
5
First thing: it is the US that needs to be contained, not China. The US is a rogue state routinely violates international law, has launched illegal wars, and has weaponized its economy to attack, blackmail and coerce friend and rival alike. China has done few of those things and, when it has, on a much smaller scale than the US. The US is simply out of control. It undermined a treaty with Iran that it negotiated itself and now is trying to enforce its own domestic laws and misguided policies - which most of the world rejects - on other states. Do Americans have no ability to see themselves as the world sees them? Have they no comprehension of how hated and, increasingly, feared the US is and how much that means that the rest of the world will need to find ways to circumvent and undermine American power? The US is grossly abusing its position; it simply needs to be stopped.
207
Agreed that the U.S. has been a bad actor at times, internationally. But you're letting China off the hook. They are at least as amoral/immoral as we are in their global dealings.
3
@Shaun Narine Perhaps it's time for Canada to not automatically comply with a request from the US to arrest a citizen from another country without first determining if the facts have substantial merit.
24
@Shaun Narine Almost all of what you've written about China is incorrect. China has violated international law with their actions in the South China Sea, its invasion of Tibet, and its mass internment of Uighurs into "reeducation" camps - the list goes on.
4
Canada should have stayed out of this...given that America is no longer a friendly ally with us!
137
Canada will always be the US's lackey no matter how badly they're treated.....case in point.
7
What is in this for Canada?
6
@Doug
Canada and the U.S. have always arrested people at each other's request, with no ulterior motive required. There is extraordinary cooperation between the two countries which has been going on for so long that it is taken for granted. People are painting this arrest as exceptional because of lack of knowledge of that, or for their own purposes.
3
It's just a matter of time, if not shortly, that the Chinese will pick up one of our people in China to retaliate.
22
Donald J. Trump muddled his personal business affairs so much during his "fabled" career that he went to bankruptcy court 4 times. How many reading this comment know of any other "successful" businessman who went to bankruptcy court that many times??? Hint! Hint! Trump doesn't know what he is doing. He hires people who also don't know what they are doing. No one with any intelligence would hire a fraud like Trump, or those Trump hires, to handle their finances. So why have we the American voters hired a four time total loser, aka Donald J.Trump, to destroy our economy?
48
@RLW I think you're wrong. I think it was 6 bankruptcies.
3
Finally, the NYT provides some balance to this story of the detention of Ms. Meng, although it's buried in the last sentence of the article.
The article provides a reference to an earlier Times article "N.S.A. Breached Chinese Servers Seen as Security Threat" https://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/nsa-breached-chinese-servers-seen-as-spy-peril.html
While the US accuses Huawei of cyber espionage, it is the US (NSA) that broke into Huawei's data center in Shenzhen. I urge readers to have a look at this story.
In the US, we have many CEOs who are veterans, and generally people think this is good. The founder of Huawei served in the Chinese military before starting the company, but the US government claims that this means that Huawei is run by the Chinese military.
Maybe the Chinese government does subsidize Huawei, it's hard to know. However, it's not hard to know what American companies are subsidized by the US government. Pro Publica has provided a list with amounts: https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list
133
@ShenBowen Didn't catch that reference - thank for the link.
4
@ShenBowen "Maybe the Chinese government does subsidize Huawei, it's hard to know." This isn't so much the issue here, the problem is their direct links to Chinese security agencies and the Army. For these reasons any Western country shouldn't allow (and thankfully aren't) them to have any involvement with large scale infrastructure projects like 5G.
7
@Louis: And what exactly is your EVIDENCE for Huawei's "direct links to Chinese security agencies and the Army"? You've observed this yourself? It's obvious because China is evil? The CEO is an army veteran so the business must be controlled by the Army and security services? Most likely, it's because the US government has made the accusation, and they'd like to provide the evidence, but it's classified. I have never heard complaints about Huawei's 3G and 4G systems widely deployed around the world (and particularly in Europe). But now, on the word of the US government, Huawei shouldn't be allowed to sell its products. You might be right, who knows, but I think it's much more likely that you'd find backdoors in equipment manufactured in the US, given the pressure from the NSA. Oh, but does the US even manufacture telecom infrastructure equipment anymore? Not much, I don't think people would trust it.
8
If the Trump administraion thinks this is a good idea, it has to be horrendously bad for the US.
17
Stupid move by a bunch of dangerous ideologues that risks spoiling the relations with China to a point beyond repair. This is just politics. If this woman has broken United States law in the United States then she can be arrested here if there are actual charges. But to pull her out of a plane change in Vancouver, Canada -not the US-, Canada, that's over the top. The case against Huawei is politics pure and simple and made up just to cause a stir. I hope the Canadians won't fall for it. The company has already stated they operate within the laws of all the respective countries they do business in. That means in the US they don't break US law. Elsewhere, that's not the US's business, is it? What a stupid move by Trump and the bunch of clowns that surround him.
62
That sounds like some kind of joke -- The People's Republic accusing the U.S. and Canada of "human rights violations"!
23
@Gabriel Speciale
I don't think the Canadian courts will laugh quite as loudly as you when this women employs the 'human rights' defence.
4
OOOOPS. Isn't this what Trump wanted RCMP to do, while he was sharing a meal with XI at G 20. What! MY BAD!
2
China could have never come so far without cheating and stealing from the West.
30
@al - And the Western consumer would not have benefited so much if the West had not freely given so much of this technology to China. For myself, I'm very pleased to be able to buy so many very cheap but acceptable or better quality goods from China. It's very far from being a one-sided relationship.
26
@IG
Right, but have you noticed that
Chinese parents buy off shore babyfood because there is no integrity in their manufacturing? How many articles have we seen in which chinese poison their own employees with no safety protocols in their process.
5
@al And the United States could never have come so far without cheating and stealing from Native Americans and Mexico. Nothing new here.
11
"“To detain someone without giving clear reason is an obvious violation of human rights,” Geng Shuang, a spokesman for China’s Foreign Ministry," This is really rich coming from the Chinese!
28
@mls exactly! The Chinese Government is historically - and continues to be, arguably the worst violator of human rights of any regime in history.
1
@mls
Yes it's something coming from the Chinese, but the US needs to give a clear and concise explanation of the charges.
We live in the age of irony: China charging the U.S. and Canada with human rights violations, and Trump and Giuliani stating that Cohen is a liar and therefore can't be trusted.
You can't make this stuff up. SNL has been mining the meager tailings of culture long enough to finally strike it rich in a vein of pure irony!
141
It would have been helpful if this article had explained briefly how American sanctions on Iran could prevent China (and other countries) from buying oil directly from Iran. In other words, if it had indicated what binding power, if any, American sanctions on Iran on China and other countries.
70
@Luder
No binding power unless the Chinese want to also do business in America. The US Govt can control (including halt) Chinese business in America unless China agrees to not buy oil from Iran. We did give them a 6 month extension on this. But this is not complicated, Luder.
2
Trump's actions are not motivated by the interests of Israel, or the United States. The only interests that Trump ever has in mind are his own financial gains. Follow the money, follow the money, follow the money.
1
APOLOGIES TO MATCHMAKER, MATCHMAKER.
Tariff Man, Tariff Man
Start a Trade War
What is it for?
Facts you ignore,
Tariff Man, Tariff Man
Playing with fire,
You’re building a funeral pyre.
Tariff Man, Tariff Man
Weak on details
If your scheme fails
We’re off the rails,
Tariff Man, Tariff Man
Based on your gut
Success? Anything but.
Your brain, Don,, is overtaxed
Successes, you haven’t waxed,
Your IQ, just hash’’t maxed at all,
The books you never have read
The gut relied on instead,
The ego inside your head, appall.
So Tariff Man, Tariff Man,
Leave Xi alone
Stay off the phone
No Russian loan,
Tariff Man, Tariff Man
Out of your zone
And please leave Trade Wars alone.
208
@Larry Eisenberg
Excellent rift on Friends show with Chloe singing "Oh, smelly cat, of smelly cat, what are they feeding you!" I know you didn't do that, but the rhyme fit in perfectly. You go guy! Love it!
4
@Larry Eisenberg
Excellent rift on Friends show with Chloe singing "Oh, smelly cat, of smelly cat, what are they feeding you!" I know you didn't do that, but the rhyme fit in perfectly. You go guy! Love it!
Oh my god, I just read the top of your post and realized that it was "Matchmaker"! Ha!Ha! Thanks kiddo!
4
@Larry Eisenberg Wonderful.....Hope this is not too late for you to give Colbert license to use it on his show tonight.
4
It is pretty simple, if she has violated the law and is subject to arrest and trial, do so. I don't want to pay bribes by giving her a pass, somehow folks are upset about a crime that is not against our laws by an ally, but is upset about a real crime that we are doing something about.
2
@vulcanalex
somehow folks are upset about a crime that is not against our laws by an ally, but is upset about a real crime that we are doing something about.
Yup. A real pain that other countries follow the rule of law - rather than having their leader control the law.
1
@vulcanalex One was a grisly murder. That is a crime.
2
Good. Tariffs are a tax in economic terms. But they are a tool in geopolitical terms.
In other words, the rise of China is due to economic policy at the expense of geopolitical risk. And while China remains totalitarian/capitalism, and our factory workers out of a job, then geopolitical risk is way way way, the policy priority over cheaper stuff!
@scientella
I assume you are typing this on your American made computer or American made cell phone?
15
Smart move!
Just look how Chinese Foreign Service reacted.
5
If I was a high-profile corporate executive in China right now, I'd be looking for the fastest route to the airport. Somebody is going to get pinched on a tit-for-tat basis.
209
I would note that China has arrested plenty of Americans on flimsy charges.
45
That’s a great reason to emulate China. What does that make us.
4
@Ava
Smart.
We are not emulating China.
We are protecting those people.
China will not arrest our people if they know we will arrest their people.
Apparently, Huawei forgot to bribe Trump. What have they done that isn't analogous to what the big federal prime contractors do?
108
@NewEnglander56 ... Canada and Australia also taking judicial action against Huwei. Apparently Huwei also forgot to bribe the leaders of those countries. I know the temptation to cast everything in anti - Trump terms is sometimes difficult to resist, but this is a nonpartisan, e.g. Sen. Warner ( Dem, Virginia ), issue.
19
@BD
Australia's concern with Huawei is unrelated to the U.S. action as it is a security concern with Huawei 5G service in Australia. Canada has no current legal concern with Huawei, and in September ruled that unlike Australia Canada had no security concern with Huawei 5G participation. That explains why Meng Wanzhou made the trip. If Canada had a warrant for her arrest it is unlikely she would have. This detention is an execution of International legal protocol, i.e., Canada has retained the subject on the request of the U.S. Extradition would require Canadian court action.
4
This is what happens if you don’t book a suite at Trump International in DC.
4