He was a decent human being. I did not support much of what he did in office. But these comments are over the top. Have we "at long last" lost the capacity to honor the passing of a decent human being? It does not take a keen eye to separate the sheep from the goats in American politics. When someone like this President, or Senator McCain, or like President Carter and President Obama when their times come, it is not the time for petty snarking. And the fact that we will doubtless hear some whenever Carter and Obama die does not excuse this. What has become of our country? It's not going to be fixed unless and until each one of us is willing to take just a tiny occasional risk to try to fix it. Leave Bush's faults to the biographers.
2
I wonder if these same people will make these same disgusting remarks when one term Jimmy Carter is laid to rest. During Obama, I kept hearing about respecting the office even if I held no respect for the man holding it. Clearly, that philosophy depends on who is in the office.
I'm the very last of the Baby Boomers. My father turned 18, and 4 months later, was in a German POW camp, as part of the Armed Guard on Convoy PQ17 (google, and ask yourselves how you would have handled it). This generation had a dignity that hasn't been seen since, and I can respect his military service. He was President, and this way is how we send off Presidents. All 5 living Presidents were present, and at least didn't mar the funeral with their petty pickering, although, rather than focus on Clinton, look at the looks directed Trumps way from the row behind.
Bush had no rumors of affairs, call girls, interns, birth certificates, etc. The press was terrible to him, and played a large part in electing the Clintons. Immediately, there was Travelgate, where the entire office of dedicated people was fired. Whitewater.... Monica. It was one personal scandal after another.
If you don't want to watch it, turn the station. It was by far better than anything on daytime television, other than the noon news.
To quote Fox News, Wednesday, we saw the best of our country. And, if both sides could come together on Monday, and again on Wednesday, why can't they do it more often?
5
Absolutely agree with you!
1
Son of a criminal, Father of criminals and there he is right there with them - yes, a criminal himself. What a gallery of rogues and miscreants...And let us not forget to thank him for that wonder of the judiciary Clarence Thomas.
2
I was trapped in a waiting room ( my car was being inspected) and the service was on the TV. Lots of Heaven and God and God and Heaven talk. I'm an atheist. If people want to believe in man made religions, the purpose, to controll the masses, fine. What really steamed me, ( besides the glorifying of GHWB ) was the thought of the Evangelicals who support Trump, pick and chose what words in the Bible ( again, written by a man/men) to support their world view. Guess what? Jesus had dark skin, was buddies with protitutes, lepers, the disabled, and ( conjecture) might have suffered from bipolar or schizophrenia, hence his visions.
Drump doesn't like lepers, or disabled, but protitutes are OK.
Ugh... religion
1
As an American victim of terrorism I Have no admiration for George.H.W. Bush.amy nly child, my daughter Theodora died in the PanAm 103/Lockerbie bombing on December 21,1988. She was was one of the Syracuse students returning home after a semester abroad. The Bush administration did everything it could to ignore the Pan Am 103 families and bury the story for political reasons.
Where were the ceremonies for our loved ones? Many were sent back in boxes and dumped at the airport with no one there to help relatives when they arrived to pick up the bodies
and bring them home for burial. The only letter of sympathy I received from President Bush came months after the bombing. And then only because the families' fight for justice kept the media interested in our plight.
Had things been done differently by the Bush administration, perhaps Americans might have awakened to the dangers of terrorism more quickly. That was last thing President Bush wanted. So to thanks to him. the living victims of the bombing were left to suffer cruelly and the victims who died were treated with dismissive contempt.
4
With all the intense news coverage and praise, one would think that it was George Washington that died and not George Bush!
And looking at George Bush's record, he doesn't even come close to being the man and patriot that Washington was.
George H. W. Bush's record:
Iran Contra scandal.
A possible negotiator with Iran during the 1980 presidential
election, making a deal to prevent the release of the American hostages until after the election.
Support of the deregulation of the savings and loan industry resulting in the savings and loan crisis in which his family played a prominent part.
Taking campaigning to a new low with the Willie Horton commercials.
The first Iraq war, which most of the justifications turned out to be false. Thus, at the time, protecting the oil of our economic rivals Japan and Germany -- most of the oil we used did not come from the Middle East.
"Read my lips, no new taxes." and raising them once he was elected.
As president, giving the country four more years of what he himself so aptly named "voodoo economics".
The man was not a great president and patriot and does not deserve the accolades he is receiving.
Discovering that our Presidents are involved in planning the details of their own funerals leaves me with one comforting thought.
The true measure of a man and his lasting legacy will be apparent in the eventual funeral of our 39th president. His humility, frugality and sense of collective decency will be punctuated in contrast with this week's spectacle.
2
Yesterday, my post was censored by the Times:
For progressives, the only good Republican is a dead Republican.
Today the NY Post:
Democrats Really Do Love Republicans- When They're Dead
https://nypost.com/2018/12/04/democrats-really-do-love-republicans-when-theyre-dead/
3
I think all this ceremonious falderol and pontificatory hoohah about the passing of George H.W. Bush is one of the bigger con jobs that the media has put over on the American People.
I see no honest analyses in the increasingly-controlled-by-the-Right media about who this man was and what he stood for and what he did.
Dismaying.
Disappointing.
4
@Jake
Three cheers for GHWB's last minute Iran-Contra pardons, Clarence Thomas injustice, Dan 'Potatoe' Quayle, and My Three Criminal Sons Dubya, Jeb and Neil who fleeced the US Treasury and American democracy and left them lying on the side of the road.
Such nice GOpeople....and such good manners ...oh my !
10
While one may or may not not agree with this politics, his devotion to his country was unmistakably clear! His sincerity, loyalty, steadfastness and humility— all qualities of a great leader! Sadly, all these and more are found to be lacking in the current lot.
The future (and current) occupants of the WH would do well to learn from him, being a fellow Republican, and ABOVE all else, a fellow AMERICAN, and attempt to mimic his legacy in some small way, even if being unable to emulate it!
May his example inspire a sense of reverence, deference and the necessary temperament amongst the future leaders, aspiring to occupy the highest office in the land! Not to mention an unwavering commitment to the Constitution and the decency reserved for public office and public service, as epitomized by the likes of Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln and JFK!
6
I'd suggest the Laurel and Hardy fest on TCM right now for much more entertaining cluelessness.
1
Enough about this one-term war criminal. I came not to praise Caesar but to bury him should be the rejoinder here. He was a monster and father of even worse monsters. The Bush family has done it's earnest best to destroy democracy at home and abroad in favor of a new global aristocracy. The gathering of the elites and their praise of him is proof positive of that.
You know who Satan is? He's not a demon with horns and a tail. He's a kindly old grandfather that seems completely harmless and is the last person you'd ever suspect of being the devil. George worked hard to cultivate the folksy public persona but nothing could be further from the truth.
5
@Sparky agreed: Obituary: Bush 41's wimpy manner, appearance and speech belied his life and actions. It was the perfect cover for America's first CIA President. He was a decorated war hero during WW2. He formed Zapata Oil Company in the 50’s with CIA assistance. He worked his way up the government ladder to become Director of the CIA during Nixon’s impeachment years of 73-74. As Reagan’s running mate he and Jim Baker allegedly influenced the Iranians from releasing the hostages until after the election, thereby ensuring a win for Reagan. This in exchange for lifting a freeze on Iran so they could acquire parts and repair their Air Force and military sold to them during the reign of our Iranian puppet, the murderous Shah (using a foreign power to Influence a presidential election). His son Neil was to have dinner with Hinckley’s brother, the day after the Reagan assassination attempt. The Bush and Hinckley Oil families knew each other. If Reagan had died, the Hinckley family would have benefited greatly from their friendship with the Bush family --if only Brother John’s aim had been a little better. Son Jeb, as Governor, conspired to fudge Florida’s election to put brother George in the White House. Son Marvin was head of the security company for the Twin Towers during 9-11. Son Neil looted Silverado S&L for $1 billion in 1990. 41 was the son of Sen. Prescott Bush, nearly convicted for trading with the Nazis during WW2. Don’t judge a book, or a family, by its cover.
1
When Marc Antony gave his oration, everyone knew who he was. Way to stand up and be counted, Sparky from Earth.
We honor a man who led us to pointless war, just because our current leader is most shameful. Right.
6
Who paid for the train trip? If we did, then how much?
6
George Herbert Walker .. the top dog of the Bush Crime Family. The family that made it's bones in the oil & energy industry, the drug war & then into the defense industry with their pal Cheney.
We sided w Saddam Hussein in his war against Iran. After when he decided to go into Kuwait, there's many reasons, Bush sent Amb April Glaspie to tell him OK. Knowing full well Saudi Arabia & Kuwait would need us to get Iraq out. And that's what happened. And both those countries payed dearly to the Family, oil profits. Remember the scene of the fleeing Iraqi convey in total retreat being mowed down, real nice guy. Plus it laid the seeds for 9/11, Bin Laden used the fact that the 'infidels' should not be in Saudi Arabia.
There is an infamous photo of H.W. hanging with Noriega the Dems decided not to use against Bush in the first election. They were pals. The General was on the CIA payroll. He wanted a bigger cut of the Drug Profit Pie. He had the goods on the Crime Family. That's why we went into Panama. To protect Bush's name & keep those profits rolling in. Basically a personal vendetta. Whole neighborhoods were destroyed & 5,000 killed. Drugs are still as plentiful as ever.
Bush started the mass 'crack' incarceration. His CIA flooded Los Angeles with crack to fund the Contras.
How about Enron & buddy Ken Lay.... Remember the wife going in the Gym Shelter after Katrina saying "many of them are better off" .. 'them' .. that pretty much says it all . yea but he was a decent guy
6
Obituary: Bush 41's wimpy manner, appearance and speech belied his life and actions. It was the perfect cover for America's first CIA President. He was a decorated war hero during WW2. He formed Zapata Oil Company in the 50’s with CIA assistance. He worked his way up the government ladder to become Director of the CIA during Nixon’s impeachment years of 73-74. As Reagan’s running mate he and Jim Baker allegedly influenced the Iranians from releasing the hostages until after the election, thereby ensuring a win for Reagan. This in exchange for lifting a freeze on Iran so they could acquire parts and repair their Air Force and military sold to them during the reign of our Iranian puppet, the murderous Shah (using a foreign power to Influence a presidential election). His son Neil was to have dinner with Hinckley’s brother, the day after the Reagan assassination attempt. The Bush and Hinckley Oil families knew each other. If Reagan had died, the Hinckley family would have benefited greatly from their friendship with the Bush family --if only Brother John’s aim had been a little better. Son Jeb, as Governor, conspired to fudge Florida’s election to put brother George in the White House. Son Marvin was head of the security company for the Twin Towers during 9-11. Son Neil looted Silverado S&L for $1 billion in 1990. 41 was the son of Sen. Prescott Bush, nearly convicted for trading with the Nazis during WW2. Don’t judge a book, or a family, by its cover.
5
@joseph falco:
You said, "Son Marvin was head of the security company for the Twin Towers during 9-11".
What on earth are you asking us to infer here?
Please explain.
The ceremonies to honor the life and mourn the passing of George H.W. Bush serve to remind us that every US President has solemn responsibilities and duties that include governance for all, decency and fairness.
Despite any disagreement one might have had with the politics or policies or George H.W. Bush, there is no question of his decency and service.
It would well serve the current occupant of the White House to reflect upon and take to heart the lessons provided by the life and works of the 41st President.
The United States is not a game show or "reality" TV series where the "winners" can be at liberty to grab 'em by the whatever.
It is a nation of fundamentally decent people, trying to get by day to day and live honest, productive lives.
Real people look toward government as a means to promote and protect the common good, and not as a means for the affluent to fleece the afflicted.
Godspeed President Bush. We salute you today, and offer our sincerest condolences to your family.
15
As Trump sat, somewhat awkwardly, listening to the eulogies for a great man, did he wonder what sort of a funeral he might have. Who would speak about him and what would they say. Would Roger Stone say a few words, perhaps some of the Mar a Lago club members, his children?
None of these possibilities, without lying, could extol his modesty, his truthfulness, his calm demeanor, his service in uniform, his respect for the Constitution. No, these qualities were those of the man under the flag. But they could remind the congregation that he was an author, university founder, hotel and casino owner and his failure to Make America Great Again. Of course it was great long before he entered the picture.
4
While one may or may not agree with his politics, his devotion to the country was unmistakably clear!! His sincerity, loyalty, kindness, steadfastness and humility— all qualities of a great leader, which appear to be grossly lacking in the current lot, to say the least.
The future (and current) occupants of the WH would do well to learn from his example, being a fellow Republican and a fellow American ABOVE all else, and that of his family in at least attempting to mimic his legacy in some small way, if not being able to emulate it!
May his example inspire a new group of leaders worthy of holding the highest office in the land! And here’s to hoping that the new ‘crop’ will have the deference and regard reserved for public service, free of the malignant and petty partisanship plaguing the current lot, as epitomized by the likes of Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, JFK and Bush Sr.
4
My heart goes out to the Bush family for sheer endurance for these multiple days of cross-country funeral proceedings. The pump and pageantry is touching but it must be a strain.
4
When the fat, yellow haired beast strode down the isle of the Cathedral at a sacred event, he was unwanted, inappropriate, the object of disdain by all there assembled.
When you vote for an animal, does that mean you are an animal?
6
To sum up : being a leader of our nation requires public service;
and an ethical determination to serve those who depend on you;
Dedication to Serve ; that is the requirement needed for being
responsible ;.....and I think George Herbert Walker Bush knew
this; the epitome of the poem "IF"....by English Poet Laureate
Rudyard Kipling : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/if-#Text...
All know this to be true; If your honest purpose is to serve those
who need to depend on you; then the only way or means to do this
is through complete dedication to this goal....a cause so great that
you can only achieve it ...through humility.....
Read Rudyard Kipling's "If"....and you will be rewarded.
@Carol B. Russell Here's another Kipling poem that comes to my mind when I think of the Bushes. (To be fair, this applies more to Bush fils than Bush père.)
A Dead Statesman
I could not dig
I dared not rob
Therefore I lied to please the mob
Now all my lies are proved untrue
And I must face the men I slew
What tale shall serve me here among
Mine angry and defrauded young?
In reading this I thought to myself how exhausting this week of mourning must have been for the family. And now I read these comments and see that others have funeral fatigue. This brief period of time when the complaints and whines of the American people, and their politicians, were on hold was a much need rest, but no one truly really believed it would last, much less for the duration of the mourning.
3
Given the media blitz, including the ocean of ink spilled by this newspaper I've tried to think well of this man. But I can't get there. All I can think of when I think of H.W.'s presidency are Clarence Thomas and Willie Horton. Not what I'd call a great legacy. I'm sure he was a nice guy. But being a nice guy when you've screwed up an entire country for generations -- as the Clarence Thomas appointment has done and as the ripple effects of the Willie Horton ad have done -- is kind of beside the point. If it weren't for the dangerous lunatic currently in the White House, making the NYT and the rest of the media desperate to set up a contrast, I wonder if we would have seen half this coverage, or whether it would have been half as gushing.
9
I am annoyed that so much emphasis is placed on the sons of Barbara and late Pres. Bush. There were 3 and only 2 of them are public figures. There is a living daughter too and no one ever shows her or discusses her life. I am curious. I know more than I need to about Neil, he was the one living near parents in Houston.
3
@M There are four Bush sons: George W., Jeb, Neil and Marvin.
Having just heard James Baker's eulogy I turned the TV off. So many sugarcoated words and so many untruths. Baker extolled the accomplishments of the elder Bush's sons. What exactly are the accomplishments of Marvin and Neil. We know the disgraceful things that Jeb and George W have done. Would that anyone in this family have done anything for the common every day person. The Bush family's self regard knows no bounds. They in their own minds are among the noble and honorable. Tell that to the people in the Middle East and Latin America. Enough is enough.
10
@Chris
Neil Bush was a director of the Silverado Banking, Savings and Loan Association, he violated conflict-of-interest regulations and failed to act to stop the institution from making improper loans, and in some cases illegal loans, that cost taxpayers $1 billion in bailouts.
''Silverado was the victim of sophisticated schemes and abuses by insiders, and of gross negligence by its directors and outside professionals,'' said Douglas H. Jones, senior deputy general counsel of the F.D.I.C.
https://www.nytimes.com/1990/09/22/business/fdic-sues-neil-bush-and-others-at-silverado.html
Nice GOPeople.
9
I watched 41's entire televised service yesterday, the formal three and a half hour National Cathedral ceremony mandated by all three network stations. I erroneously believed that the final national goodbye's would end there, and yet here we are again today, 41's supposedly 'private' Texas ceremony, being mandated viewing yet again on all (3) networks.
I don't know about anyone else, but I'd like to know why the funeral of a man who was relegated to a one term presidency, and one of more than twenty five years ago, has the power to control all programming on all three major networks for two full day days. Why is his 'private' Texas ceremony instead not being aired on perhaps C-Span. It's become quite over-the-top.
I'm beginning to think there's a certain level of dynastic political indoctrination going on here. And it's ruining what respect I used to have for Bush Sr.
10
@RLC
Yesterday's funeral was 2 hours long.
I wanted to see both funerals. I am glad that today's private funeral was telecast.
I watched much of the earlier coverage on Mon. and Tues. and all of both funerals.
@RLCWhy ? Because the electronic media's need for content to drive ratings, leading to commercial income derived from said ratings is at a competitive extreme level..
@RLC
Yesterday's funeral was 2 hours long.
We lick our deep national wounds with the pomp and pageantry of the HW Bush funeral(s). We go to great lengths and expense (1/2 a billion dollars by some estimates) to distract ourselves for a few days. We gorge on embellished myths about a man and carefully measure the distance between him and the current president – a distance measured in words like dignity, grace, decency, and civility. We hold our heads high for a few proud moments and believe that those words are who we really are.
But we can only fool ourselves for so long until reality again enters the room. Words won’t sustain us; actions do. And the lasting legacy of George HW Bush that we will continue to feel for years to come will be: Clarence Thomas.
That Bush was a nice guy – not so much.
17
I thought one televised funeral service was appropriate and deserved. The continued coverage, however, with one service after another, with the shutdown of postal service three weeks before the holidays, was overkill and inappropriate.
14
@Ellen
The Post Office was shut down because the demands of the plutocracy took precedence. We have an authoritarian ignoramus, we had a plutocratic rascal.
6
Indeed, he was a good American and a great Texan - adopted - just as I am.
In Texas, we say, " I was not born here, but I got here as fast as I could!d."
This whole tribute has been wonderful. It has made America and Texas look not just good but made all of us very proud. I am disreagrading comments below disparaging our current POTUS.
I worked as a volunteer at both New Orleans and Houston conventions. And I still remember the excitement when he uttered "read my lips."
Some below have commented that this funeral "show" was way over the top.
I disagree.
Other folks, notably the Brits put on a great pomp and circumstance - but to a person who has nothing in common with the "commoners" - not to mention any achievements.
These British folks get this treatment - not for what they accomplished - but who was their father and mother.
This man - despite an impressive pedigree - crossed the country to settle in the great state of Texas - where no one even had heard of him. So, he deserved all these accolades and some more.
One final note - Mr Bush - other than some accomplishments - his biggest gift to America - was Mr James Baker. Without Mr Baker - Mr Bush would not have become a president or a leader.
Mr Baker needs to be remembered when we talk about this president.
5
@Neil
Nor would his son have managed to steal the 2000 election. Good riddance to the whole entitled bunch.
2
These never ending funerals are so over the top, so over exposed by the electronic media that it's getting beyond ridiculous. I thought McCain's send off couldn't get any worse but this one tops them all.
G.H.W. Bush was an honorable man and a great American but even he must be wanting to roll over in his grave if he could for this marathon pomp parade..
6
@zinn21
Honorable man ? Not if you were unemployed and on the street, starving, during his reign. Rolling over in his grave ? To GHW Bush, lavish praise was just to be expected. He probably would think he got the short end of the scepter if he could have seen his sendoff. NOTHING is too good for this family.
6
@zinn21 - So don't watch them. There's your solution.
Personally, I don't mind these lavish funeral rights for a departed leader. It's a reminder that we're a country of dignity, tradition, and leadership, not a country of mindless sloth, pared-down intelligence, and barking insults. I'm sorry, but the national attention span and national tolerance for things that last longer than five minutes definitely needs to increase. It's not about what the average citizen finds ridiculous but what the average citizen should find acceptable for a departed leader of our nation. It's not like we have these sorts of funerals every day. We had two major funerals in the last three months, an unfortunate and unusual set of circumstances, but we haven't had an actual state funeral since President Gerald Ford died in 2006. And this is all too much and too ridiculous for you? How unfortunate that you feel that way.
24
@Lindsay K The personal ones in Houston are the lavish elaborate style because they chose to be part of an affluent Episcopal church. They could have had a different tradition, but as they were both from affluent probably Episcopal families this is likely what they grew up with and stuck with. Episcopal churches around the world are actually not all alike in their style although the liturgy is fairly consistent. And the politics vary as well although in Houston they are all conservative.
1
HW's funeral was beautiful in every way. The choir and music choices were lovely. Ronan Tynan was outstanding, the tributes were all beautifully written and beautifully delivered. George W's eulogy was sweet and emotional. It was the perfect celebration of a life well lived. We should all receive such a beautiful send off. Yes, it was awkward when the Trumps arrived. But DJT is the reason. He looked very uncomfortable when he sat down. He was not received well, but Melania was. As for Bill and Hillary Clinton and the Carters not shaking hands with him, that's his problem. He said so many vicious things about Hillary, it was OK for her to frost him out. How many times did he call her "Crooked Hillary" and shout "Lock her up" at his rallies? It was appropriate for her to avoid even the slightest eye contact with Trump. The funeral was not about him. I think he finally got that yesterday. The tributes mentioned how HW lived his life, being honest, not blaming others, being a good and true friend, a loving husband and father and grandfather, and being true to a spouse for 73 years. All fine qualities of his, all lacking in DJT. Maybe Trump actually learned something from the tributes. Maybe he'll begin to realize how poorly he treats people, how mean and spiteful he can be, and how unbecoming his behavior is. Maybe that's why no one, including past presidents and their wives don't even want to shake his hand.
26
@Lake Swimmer
"Maybe Trump actually learned something from the tributes."
Trump is probably composing a nasty tweet as I write this. He will never change. I just can't wait to see how America treats him when he pops off. Hope everyone from his inauguration lines the parade route.
3
@Lake Swimmer
Thank you, Lake Swimmer, for praising the beauty of both funerals. I believe you meant to say "funerals," in plural, in your first sentence.
1000% agreement in what you say about both funerals.
I think it's possible to talk about the funerals without mentioning the current president at all.
I’ve come to respect 41 more than I had before, but my sainted aunt! How many funerals does one guy need?
12
@MJ2G - The late Sen. John McCain had two services: one at a Baptist church in Phoenix that was open to the public, and a second at the Washington National Cathedral. It's not unusual for public servants of such stature to have more than one service so that people can say goodbye or so that their remains can be in their hometowns one last time. I know that our politicians are not perfect, but in this case it seems to be damned if their families do, damned if they don't: have one service, particularly an invitation-only one such as the service at the Washington National Cathedral, and it's considered an elitist snubbing of the public. Have two services, and it's overboard and overblown. My advice, which you certainly don't have to take: just enjoy these dignified remembrances for a public servant of stature, grace, and common courtesy, none of which the current occupant of the Oval Office has or seems willing to try to work towards.
3
The reverend is correct. There is no reason we shouldn’t resume civility in 2018.
Adios Poppy.
5
I watched - with the sound off ( I had forgotten how dismal church music is, all those 19th century dirges droning on and on ) but for me, any day that includes optics of my true, beloved President and First Lady, the Carters, is one filled with grace and intelligence.
A person needs 'heroes'.
They are mine.
19
@rosa I absolutely watch for the music. The Episcopal church hymnal is full of treasures. Churches like this have excellent music. There are many verses but if you were able to read the words it is poetry with meaning set to tune.
2
Agree totally -- today in Houston, the organ operator played after the recessional my favorite bit from Widor's Symphony No. 4. Anybody not moved by THAT music needs some serious counseling and/or a hearing test.
"The meaning of life is that it stops."
- Franz Kafka
22
Watching the first row of former presidents and their wives made me wonder if we will ever return to having a president we can respect, regardless of party affiliation. The president occupying the aisle seat at the funeral has none of the grace and class of Carter, Clinton, and Obama. I hope he's an anomaly.
32