http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2007/11/26/17845/cheney-halliburton-iran/
In 1995, President Clinton signed an executive order barring U.S. investment in Iran’s energy sector. To evade U.S. law, Halliburton (CEO = Dick Cheney) set up an offshore subsidiary that engaged in dealings with Iran. So why wasn’t Dick Cheney arrested?
4
The Chinese have copied piece by piece (electric controls, gearing and structure) a very successful, totally American engineered and manufactured large electric mining shovel made in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. The shovel model known at the P&H 4100, is used in large open pit mines globally. The exact duplicate Chinese copied shovel is sold significantly less than the American unit. As a result the shops of the P&H (Harnischfeger) facility in Milwaukee have had a significant reduction in their skilled trade workforce - engineers, welders, machinists, assemblers, etc. P&H at it's low a couple of years ago was acquired by rival Japanese construction and mining equipment maker, Komatsu. Most of the P&H factory complex in Milwaukee on National Avenue is now vacant, currently owned by a New York real estate development company. Alternative use planning is underway. This is just one example of many on the technology raiding and industrial abuse by the Chinese. Sadly to the detriment of American workers and the American economy. No surprise here with Huawei.
28
This is going to motivate the Chinese to work harder on their MakeInChina 2025 plan, as they are realizing now they can't rely or use on any US made components in their products, particularly in semiconductor chips, besides being a serious
security threads. They will need to dramatically increase the made-in-China contents in their products. The way that US is using its monopolistic market powers to their extremes is deeply troubling. I hope we are heading somewhere of no return in terms of our relationship to China.
How is this any different from Israeli security and enterprise software companies like Checkpoint and Amdocs and others, which have been spying on the US for years? The FBI identifies the top three countries that spy on the US as Russia, China and Israel, and yet Israel is considered a "friend".
Sounds like China just needs a bigger lobby in the US.
29
@Baddy Khan
Yes. The NSA uses Israeli equipment in its spying operations, seemingly unaware that that same equipment is spying on them and us.
Critical infrastructure needs to be built in the U.S. by government employees. Global corporations are not loyal to We the People. That is painfully obvious every day.
4
This arrest is one more example of how our slavish policy with respect to Israel undermines our relationship with the world.
The UN, acting on behalf of the world community, lifted it's sanctions against Iran when Iran verifiably gave up its stockpile of enriched uranium, destroyed its plutonium reactor at Arak, and mothballed most of its centrifuges.
The European Community, which supports the Iran deal, must be taken aback by this arrest. Britain and Germany lifted their sanctions against Iran, so now any executive from a German or British firm doing business in Iran can be dragged into the Federal prisons of the U.S. because their nations reject the pro-Israel policy of John Bolton?
We are back to the days of gunboat diplomacy, and for what? So that Israel can continue to get away ghettoizing the Palestinians and massacring them when they protest?
3
Such hypocrisy when we are dealing with a rogue state like Saudi Arabia who has just lured and murdered a US resident in its embassy, not to mention 9/11.
Not too long ago China had preferred Trading status. Now you cannot make head or tail of our Foreign policy except it starting to look more like extortion tactics used by mafia like organization.
13
@Paul You're naive if you think that there's ever been a neat and tidy way to do foreign relations. I'd suggest that handing the world's number one sponsor of terrorism billions of dollars is the apex of madness. Kashoggi? He was just Middle East mob "family business," a member of the Muslim Brotherhood whom adoring Western liberals plucked up to write nasty things about the Saudi Family during their proxy war with Iran.
We're clear on our policy. We're not opening up our borders. We're not doing bad trade deals that cost Americans jobs. We're not appeasing and apologizing for being the United States. We're not supporting Iran's proxy war against Saudi Arabia or anything else. And we're not supporting the terrorism attacks by Iran on Israel.
2
@Paul
Not the Mafia, just the primitive, uninformed policy emanating from an 8 year old.
1
Here's a fascinating slice of history not taught in out textbooks: America's early entrepreneurs relied on trade secrets stolen from Britain and other European countries to create our industrial base.
Here's the proof: https://www.ipwatchdog.com/2017/07/05/americas-industrial-revolution-based-trade-secret-theft/id=85377/
16
@Marek Edelman Don't try to equate something that happend hundreds of years ago with something egregious happening today by a nation that is criminal and repressive. Simple math, two wrongs don't make a right.
12
@Marek Edelman Yes, please, our day is not made until you find another "piece of history" that denigrates the United States and the people who built the country and most of the developing world. Not our fault if Europe didn't know what to do with it.
3
@Rudolfrojas Thank you. Because stealing a patent for kneading dough is so like sabotaging an entire country via their telecommunications equipment today.
I blame the American telecommuncations companies for not delivering decades ago on 5G - they certainly have enjoyed enough favorable legislation and tax breaks - including promises of providing internet to millions of Americans living in rural areas that they still haven't delivered on since the 90's.
4
This only makes me more determined to keep on buying Huawei products.
5
Good luck finding any of their products in the US
5
@Nick You can buy a high end Huawei smart phone from B&H in New York right now for half the price of a comparable Apple or Samsung phone. The problem is that none of the major US carriers will activate it. You can use its non phone features here (like cameras) and use all its features elsewhere in the world.
1
Late in the game for these countries to suddenly see the threat. But, better late than never. Why was the rescinding (earlier this year) of US sanctions against ZTE - one day after China invested $1B in DJT's Indonesia resort - buried by the news media within a few days?
22
Very strange column. It calls USA, Britain and Australia rest of the world. Canada is still open to Huawei according their minister Mr. Jones. The column implies that USA can punish Chinese companies. However, it skips noting
that there are many American companies operating in China which
be constrained if it comes to tit-for tat.
There is a two way traffic
At times like this, it sure would be nice to have international friends when confronting China over its predatory and intellectual theft trade policies. And I don't mean Russia, Saudi Arabia, and the Philippines.
Trump's doing way more harm than good on the world stage. Given his uniform record of business failures and his unwillingness to listen to knowledgeable advisors, this isn't going to end well.
1
I watched an episode of 101 East last night about China’s Social Credit System. It’s in pilot phase right now. But the parts that have been implemented are scary. The Urghur people are essentially in lockdown, with many of them being sent to “re-education camps”. A journalist who exposed high level corruption in the chinese communist party has been blacklisted via this system and can’t even book a train ticket. Huawei was featured in a technology conference in a segment along with Sesame Credit. I have seen late night tv ads for Sesame Credit here in the US. Alibaba and Tencent have market caps of 400, 500 billion yet we are making a big deal of Amazon and Apple 1 billion market cap? I hate to admit this, but Steve Bannon may be more right than wrong about China.
2
I do not know right from wrong on this company but more I think about it, it is following same commercial principles as Facebook, IBM,Apple and other large tech companies. More I think about it, it is commercial interests of USA companies that someone want to protect from cheaper big rivals from China.
in the first place, USA companies wanted cheap labor from China to please Wall street and therefore they all went there. In the process they gave away technologies and now USA companies cannot complete with Chinese companies. Too bad. Reap what you sow.
2
@kg Oh please. The only thing you got right was that the US took our factories to China for cheap labor. Without this happening China would not have come into the economic world that western countries have cultivated for 100+ years. I’ve worked with Chinese people in my line of work for 32 years. Chinese people don’t have a creative mind. They come to our universities to try and learn how to have a creative mind but unfortunately for your people, you were schooled by repetition with no thought to developing the parts of the brain that produces creativity and inventiveness. Your people have stolen our technology and are now trying to tell the world that you created the technologies that were developed by Americans decades ago. The Chinese are good at making plastic toys and toxic doo dads. China is jumping up and down that they think they will be landing a man on the moon soon. The US already did that in 1968.
2
China is currently holding 2 US citizens, not allowing them to leave, as a means to induce their estranged father to turn himself in.
AS bad a person as Trump is, at least he is standing up somewhat to the chinese.
5
Huawei has always been just a commercial arm of the Peoples' Republic Army and it has always flourished through IP theft and deception. Its reputation started when it was found that Huawei routers were not only technical copies of Cisco's tech, but also came with manuals complete with the same spelling errors as Cisco's. Huawei may have its own technical competence, but can't be trusted in the least.
Any country willing to let Huawei provide infrastructure technology is effectively letting China have a technical spy arm resident in that country.
7
@MassBear
You don't think the NSA has an arrangement with Cisco for imbedding firmware in export sales? As a patriotic American, wouldn't you want them to?
1
There has long been skepticism about Huawei but until The Con Don and his Robber Baron brethren took over OUR government it didn't become an inducement to arrest one of it's top officials.
They must have been eating into Goldman Sachs' profits - maybe they refused to continue to work with GS.
Whatever the reason the timing was planned. The Con Don and other 0.01% International Mafia Robber Baron/radical religion want to start WW3. They actually must think WE THE PEOPLE are going to sit idly by while the destroy OUR lives.
Boy, have we got news for them. Not now. Not ever again.
3
Not just the United States, but countries ranging from "New Zealand and Australia to Britain and Canada," the fourth block says.
Interesting thing about those five countries in particular?
Google "Five Eyes."
3
The US government seemed to be very nimble and worked fast on this issue. Hmmmmm , so they can quickly get stuff done if they want to. Now, about Climate Change.....
4
Please! China does not operate by the rule of law or basic ethical considerations - except when it further empowers the State which is Xi, who, if you missed it, is dictator for life. It cheats constantly on financial and monetary fronts. International copyright infringement is a matter of course as is ethical anomaly. Look at He and his CRSPR gene editing experiment -and that is only one example that has made international news. Its burgeoning middle class does not enjoy basic freedom of speech or expression: look at what's happening in Hong Kong with freedoms being restricted and protestors arrested. Huawei has been stealing U.S. created technology to possibly make vast spy networks around the globe. It's creating a national surveillance network on its own people. China has been arresting movie stars, artists, protestors, its own business people, and civil servants at whim and for manufactured reasons to assert State power. It waffles and prevaricates when confronted with objective truth.The difference between these and Wanzhou's arrest is that hers is by rule of law: she is publicly arrested and not disappeared for months to some hidden re-education camp only to re-surface broken and apologetic, and she will be charged and tried in public.
10
@mimu
I don't think the US operates under the rule of law when reading about the political action taken by the Wisconsin and Michigan state governments after the election of Democratic governors. I read about voter suppression in many southern states. I read also about the large number of unarmed colored people shot by police who seem to face little scrutiny.
Historically the United States stole huge amounts of technology and patented material without ever acknowledging or compensating the creators. The US seems to want everyone to do as they say but not as they did.
2
@mimu
"Rule of law"? Who's law? It cannot be the case that any country can extradite a foreign national for an alleged breach of its law that did not occur within its sovereign territory. If that is the case, any U.S. citizen traveling through Hong Kong's international airport (and thousands do each day), can be arrested by China for failing to obey it's foreign policy dictates.
1
@Warren Courtney Agreed! But we're talking about China here. The fact that those issues are written about and reported on with transparency speaks volumes about freedoms that exist and will prevail beyond the reign of tRump and FakeFOX News. A Chinese citizen needs to look outside its State-run media and internet (!) to find factual stories about corruption, land-grabs, enslaved factory workers, political dissidents, environmental degradation etc, etc. Again, Wanzhou's arrest is public unlike many arrests in China where people simply "disappear" for months and when/if they show up again are placed under house arrest and forced to make public statements of contrition. Transparency and ethics in affairs of state and science are far greater in the U.S. than China - full stop. If you'd rather muddy the waters by pointing out well-recorded evils in the States and ignoring China's culpability as far as human rights transgressions and flouting of international law, then look in the mirror: let's talk about Canada's complicity too.
2
Governments and industry want the freedom to do bad things without anybody finding out and being held accountable. The People want their governments and their industries to do bad things as long as they don't have to find about. We humans are tool makers. When the tool is a weapon, it's not a tool anymore and when the weapon is put into the hands of the governments and industries who do bad things, we have to be told and we have to do something about it or be forever at the mercy of our own ignorance.
5
In a Nov. 20, 2018 report the Office of the United States Trade Representative issued an update report on China’s Act’s, Policies and Practices related to Technology Transfer, Intellectual Property and Innovation.
It’s very important to understand there is significant, evidence over a number of years that China, as a matter of strategic policy obtains technology developed by compaies outside their country in a variety of unacceptable ways. The end game plan is to be the most technology dominent country in the world. No one has problems with other countries thru their own R&D developing technology for sale across the world. R&D, in many cases takes years and billions of dollars. Obtaining the technology which skips the R&D step creates unfair market advantage.
Finally, the US is not the only country affected. Austraila, Japan, The European Union, South Korea all have had industries and company’s in their countries affected.
This is not new. Past administrations have attempted to address it thru negotiatiions which didn’t yield anything substantial.
Are, tariff’s and arrests the answer? I am not sure, but, it certainly does keep China negatively in the world news. The sell off on Wall Street is indicative of the negative reaction.
5
The arrest has made me more skeptical of the US under the current regime. The US seems to be allowing its criminal law to be used by a would be dictator to pursue his own personal goals. I am embarrassed that Canada participated in this scheme, and I hope the court refuses the request from extradition to the US and releases the woman.
7
Does anyone remember when the chinese government arrested a Chinese Australian negotiator from Rio Tinto because they didn’t like the price of iron ore he was quoting? The Chinese government are criminals, more like the mafia than a real government. Not trusting them is downright necessary.
11
If Superhawk Bolton didn't tell Trump of the Saturday arrest just before the Sunday meeting with Xi, as the WH suggests is possible, then that says something rather worrying about the functioning of the US administration.
But to know about the move before the meeting, and keep the wraps on it till Thursday, may be even more disruptive as a personal insult to Xi. And 'face' is very important not only to Trump but especially in 'The East'.
With another WH, I'd just hope they knew what they were doing.
With this one I'm waiting for global financial meltdown and WW3.
5
China has a right to success. China doesn’t have the right to steal intellectual property, but China deserves a fair chance to make things whole. With Trump behind the wheel fairness and working things out are not part of his cognitive decline.
Ready fire aim, divide and conquer are Trump’s credos.
4
Hear, hear. In that spirit, the US and the Europeans should compensate China for the use of paper, compass, gunpowder, steel, the plough, and on and on all the things they stole or took. Oh, and for the narco politics of imposing opium addiction on tens of millions of Chinese at gunpoint. Oh and for invading China...etc., etc
1
"Global skepticism" of Huawei's products? Roughly nine out of ten inhabitants on the globe don't live in the US or EU, whose share is steadily declining. China is speeding ahead economically and technologically, and "the globe" is benefiting from its trade, investments and aid. (And at least it doesn't drop a bomb every twelfth minute on poor foreign countries.)
So, there is a lot of global skepticism of things we don't prefer to talk about.
8
I commented on this article earlier, but I just reread the headline: "Arrest Shakes Huawei as Global Skepticism of Its Business Grows"
The 'global' skepticism according to the article comes from the US, Australia, New Zealand, Britain, and Canada. Please, NYT, this is hardly "global". This is exactly the same set of English speaking countries that has been strong-armed by the US into throwing Huawei out of their countries, the last of America's allies. I'd like so see evidence that other countries, particularly those with large Huawei telephony infrastructures, are skeptical. I don't believe they are.
7
The US Govt took no time in arresting the CFO of a Chinese Corporation on yet to be proven charges of violation of sanctions. Meanwhile, Mr. Warren Anderson, head of Union Carbide, responsible for the death of 10,000 people in the Bhopal Gas Tragedy that also caused health problems for over half a million people is yet to be arrested in spite of an Indian Court's order from 2009.
I report, you decide.
14
Admittedly I know nothing about trade policy and only marginally more about technology. But, intuitively, the one thing I think Trump has right is countering China's theft of intellectual property.
7
And US tech firms are innocent angels who would never allow back door access to the NSA and CIA. Give me a break.
4
Interesting response from China. The Chinese government regularly uses its bogus legal system to arrest executives of foreign companies on trumped up charges as a means of extracting unreasonable commercial compromises. Perhaps they are worried about being subjected to the same sort of abuse.
7
Since we must have tech as cheaply as possible and tech companies must have large profit margins, it is not possible to arrest our way out of this addiction. Whether it is Huawei or Apple or Samsung, someone will have a key to our backdoor to steal our lunch money. Like the German or Middle Eastern or East European film villains, the Chinese make a great evil foil for American goodness and purity of thought and action.
1
On Huawei’s website, it vows to “fulfill the export control obligations and responsibilities, and build a corporate image as an honest and responsible enterprise to win trust from the international partners and customers.....Huawei is convinced that compliance with national and the relevant international export control regulations will enable Huawei to evade and mitigate trade risks, to increase its competitiveness in the international markets, and to entrench Huawei's long-term development."
On October 29, in an internal session on compliance with her father, Huawei founder Ren Zhengfei, Meng Wanzhou told employees that "there are scenarios where the company can weigh the costs and accept the risks of not meeting the requirements of the law."
Father and daughter agreed to the need to “control the costs of compliance and not to exceed what is legally required” in individual jurisdictions. “One may accept the risk of temporary non-compliance,” she said.
In light of her business practice, Huawei’s “export or re-export of American technology to Cuba, Iran, North Korea, Sudan and Syria” would hardly bother her.
8
Any Country that lets a foreign company build its communication network is begging to have all of its intellectual property, trade secrets stolen and its national security compromised.
17
@McGloin the physical transmission of wireless data is by definition hopelessly insecure, as it is literally being broadcast on the open airwaves. The only way to secure communication is via effective end to end encryption.
2
@McGloin
I would not want the US to be involved in Canada's structure; they are one of the most untrustworthy allies in the world now that trump is in office.
Precisely why no one should allow any US products. Puleese! No nation spies more than USA, starting on its own people. It's broadly reported that all the US companies build backdoors for the NSA, etc. ATT even built a special room and tie in to it's main data trunks for US spy agencies.
Finally, a return to gunboat diplomacy. To the days when British and American gunboats patrolled the Yangtze River to keep the locals in check.
I wonder if the current pushback against China will be as successful as those back in the day.
4
Huawei, in addition to being the world's leading comminications company, uses encryption that the US cannot break.
Countries that adopt Huawei systems are hated as much as countries that adopt S-400 missiles systems because it makes them less susceptible to US meddling.
3
@godfree
You bet! That's why their products are banned in Canada, Australia and New Zealand!
This is just another aspect of American economic warfare. It tries to buy or control or control every advanced technology in the world so that it can use that in economic warfare ("sanctions") and eavesdropping against other countries. Huawei cannot be bought so it tries to neutralize it in another way.
4
It's astounding that Huawei has been allowed to continue doing business anywhere, much less become the #1 supplier in the world. As a guy with 20 years of experience in Telecom, I've seen Huawei steal more patents and engage in more shady practices than any other telecom company.They're known for treating employees like expendable dirt as well.
But that doesn't even get us started on the predatory pricing practices that only a state-funded monopoly could engage in. And therein lies the real rub. It's not until they're suspected of actual espionage, that we do anything about companies like this. Mere destruction of our own national technology companies and intellectual property isn't enough, apparently, when executives can get their millions in bonuses for buying cheap gear from China at way below market prices, thinking they're big geniuses.
17
@Brannon Perkison
Yes. That is what the Party of Trump doesn't understand. China isn't winning because of tariffs. It's winning because it has an industrial policy.
China picks key industries and uses government policy to give market advantages to those industries.
While Republicans and their centrist Democrat allies refuse to invest in America, China is picking winners (them) and losers (us).
The central problem with the American economy is that we refuse to invest in ourselves.
China is building magnetic levitation trains that go as fast as planes, while Republicans dismantle Amtrak.
We invented solar, but let China steal the solar panel industry, because Republicans are too busy scoring political points against Obama for investing in the solar industry asthma protecting 19th century energy technology. China is selling panels at below cost, but we are attacking our own industries.
12
I am having a board designed for a product I’m developing, I told my board guy I want access to the board to be through an encrypted port, protecting the firmware. He said if it’s made in China by law he has to give the key to the government.
Thirty years ago you could have everything made in the states, it was a little cheaper in Taiwan, but you could still do it here. Now that’s impossible. Corporations did this to us.
23
Huawei alleged hacking of Nortel is well known*. But who sold stocks on Tuesday when the arrest of Ms Meng on Monday happened but the news did not break until late Wednesday when news outlets were fixed on President GHW Bush's funeral remains a question mark.
John Bolton said he knew but not sure if Trump knew. And how about Mike Pompeo?
Yes, this column is about Huawei but it seems there are more stories to be told here. Huawei is no doubt a threat in many ways, not just its tied to PLA and its relationship with Xi. And would its communication servers call "home"?
However, this incident also tells another story. Someone knew, in Canada, the U.S. and China, and they might have used the incident to profit handsomely
7
* David Faber of CNBC did an expose on Huawei's alleged hack of Nortel a while back
2
@BosYou cannot 'expose' allegations. David
Farber repeated an allegation, like lots of shills, without any evidence whatever.
1
@godfree
please use some linguistic imagination since my keyboard doesn't have 'exposé' naturally. It was French.
And didn't I use the word 'alleged' repeatedly in my posting?
Not that it matters, do you have any relationship with Huawei, btw?
1
The incompatibility of Chinese and Western business practices is real and was long overdue for a correction. It is a concern though that US policies on the global stage are incoherent with no proportionality between measures being taken and seriousness of the offense. Just think about Turkey, Khashoggi, Russia and this. Why are the US officials not going after the company as a legal entity and instead get this lady arrested in a third country during negotiations with the Chinese president without informing him? It does not come across as the acting of a predictable and reliable party like the US has been before.
9
@Wim Especially considering that one...repeat one...person went to jail (and for less than 3 years) in the US during the Subprime Mortgage scandal, which nearly brought down the entire world economy, and was largely the result of illegal conduct by thousands of people.
3
Past lobbying from Cisco, et al was not based on the "threat" of Huawei stealing their business. Huawei was, without question, stealing the intellectual property of Cisco and numerous other, smaller technology companies.
Cisco would publish a security vulnerability based upon its software--Huawei would issue the same security vulnerability, oftentimes verbatim.
It is one thing to fear a legitimate competitor, but Huawei's blatant theft of the intellectual property should give governments, corporations, and individuals pause at doing business with them.
19
The whole issue with Huawei started with strong lobbying from US firms like Cisco Systems years back. After all these years, I still haven’t seen any conclusive evidence that Huawei was spying for the Chinese government. The only thing Huawei is guilty of is that since it’s a Chinese company, it could be aiding the Chinese government in espionage. So in the eyes of Western media, it’s guilty until proven innocent. Meanwhile, American telecom companies have been routinely helping NSA conducting global surveillance. But that’s okay because they are acting in the best interests of US government.
12
@Daniel Z - It definitely is ironic that the USA is attempting to shut down Chinese tele-comm spying capability across the globe all the while the American social media giants like Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, Snapchat, etc. have inserted NSA-designed “back doors” in security software, giving the government & select companies (and, potentially, hackers—or other governments) access to everything from bank records to medical data. While Mark Zuckerberg & Sheryl Sandberg sit doe-eyed in front of Congress lying that they don't sell their customer's data to 3rd parties, they are secretly in cahoots with the NSA to listen in & record cell phone conversations as well as record info. using web cameras & smart phones. Amazon's Alexa Echo can record & store conversations which the NSA can easily tap into. Edward Snowden revealed the NSA program Optic Nerves which was a bulk surveillance program allowing capture of webcam images every five minutes from Yahoo users’ video chats and then stored them for future use. It is estimated that between 3% and 11% of the images captured contained “undesirable nudity”. This was just one tiny example of the extent of the spying & surveillance that the NSA uses with the availability of "back door" devices. Just imagine if China had this same type of spying access to Westerners especially prominent leaders. Best to be overly cautious of China's growing access via technology into people's everyday lives.
9
@Dunca
Yes. A few years ago when I was warning that the NSA copies everything, the most common response was, "I don't have anything to hide."
Well, now that wanna be Emperor Trump is president and has control of the most awesome surveillance systems in the history of the world, maybe now those that criticize Dear Leader regularly will realize that we all need privacy.
If you still don't think you have anything to hide, please post all you're account names numbers, and passwords here for our perusal.
What's in your wallet?
3
This company is seen as being totally compliant with the Beijing junta's need for spying on Western countries, especially ours. Their phones and even TVs are reported to relay all manner of overheard conversations to Chinese intelligence.
Does this even extend to devices built by competitors and then hacked by Chinese software or equipment?
Desperate countries steal ravenously, and much of what has led to China's growth has been stolen both by the gov't demanding software from manufacturers and their tnousands of full-time hackers draining American computer networks of eveything from military designs to personal information.
China has never yet designed its own aircraft, going straight from using Soviet designs to stealing billions of dollars' worth of designs, info and specifications from the Pentagon.
We have been in a full-out information war with Red China since at least 1990 whether American leaders are aware of it or not.
23
Kudos to the CCP agents who have truly spun the globe to find places to pretend to be from (Wilmington, DE!) in order to spin this meaningful advancement into a nothingburger. It doesn’t pass Ockham’s razor that anyone who thinks Ms. Meng should be sprung post-haste is not an instrument of the party. Thank you for the moral equivalence, but no. While the culture might be thousands of years old, the current government is but a young thing to the wise eyes of this democracy. Yes we know, Donald Trump, but not for much longer.
6
The rightful place of thieves and renegades in this world is not a the top. Even if they are children of the revolution.
7
I think NYT should use less biased authors to write these articles covering China's ill gotten gains. When I read lines such as: "Increasingly, much of the rest of the world sees it as a potential conduit for espionage and sabotage." What potential are they talking about exactly? It is very clear that China HAS been using these state run enterprises as "conduits" for siphoning off American technology for decades. The policy is a state sponsored one and is being executed by Chinese loyalists right here in the US. Take a hard look at some of the Chinese groups working in some of the biotech companies here in NY state. This whole article is written with a bent towards China as being a victim which they are certainly not, not even by a long shot. The national policy of China has been deny and deflect any time it gets caught red-handed doing dirt. Time to get the spin straight NYT. The stance that these are companies have been unwittingly swept up in all this government sponsored espionage is not one the American people believe for a second. How about having some of these articles written by some less biased authors?
20
@Jim' It is very clear that China HAS been using these state run enterprises as "conduits" for siphoning off American technology for decades. The policy is a state sponsored one and is being executed by Chinese loyalists right here in the US. '
Zero evidence, alas!
1
@Jim. I'm not sure I read the article the same way... I read it more as underlining the faultline between out economies and governmentst and gwopolitica positions... I'm American and i don't trust the Chinese for a second and I usually have my nose alert for false equivalences. But your mistrust eches strongly with, me, so I'm interested in your intwrpretation
@Jim.. forgot to mentiontell that I'm using Huwai phone to text my comment. There's irony in there somewhere....
the arrest of Ms. Meng took place in spite of Trump's wish, trust me.
9
I would not apply term global skepticism to the actions of the white English speaking members of the Five Eyes Intelligence Club.
More like falling into line following pressure by its most powerful member.
4
Conspiracy theories galore! The most widely shared quote just yesterday was "Speak the truth, don't blame people". Oh well, that was yesterday...
Thank God that this kind of financial and technological malfeasance is restricted solely to Chinese companies!
That the angelic tech companies that grace the shore of this nation would never engage in any kind of subterfuge or illegal behavior of any kind!
Thank God we all know who the real "villains" in the tech game really are!
8
@Chicago Guy
The problem is that we keep giving more and more power to global corporations with no loyalty to the USA. Their bylaws say that their profits are more important than We the People. If I was wrong, they wouldn't keep moving their operations and tax headquarters to other countries.
Now we have made Trump Inc. president.
We the People (human citizens) are the sovereign power behind our government. We charter corporations for our benefit. But our representatives keep trying to make them into citizens A corporation cannot be a citizen any more than you can be your own mother. Corporations are not People, but merely fictitious persons that allow humans to operate companies without any responsibility for what those companies do.
Corporations have run amok and are hijacking our government.
Support the Amendment that makes clear to the Supreme Court that
Corporations are Not People and Money is Not Speech.
See, for example, MoveToAmend.org
2
What’s wrong with another country becoming a first? Fear! Nothing is worse than flagrant disregard for procedures in diplomacy. From my view though I could be wrong , any country could claim ownership of intellectual property but it’s utterly unacceptable for any country to hold another countries citizen on allegation of disregard for the decision of one man to pull out of an international consensus.
5
@kola
So if you write a novel, you would have no problem with the Chinese selling your novel, with no expenses, making the hours you spent writing essentially worthless?'Finders keepers?
Without the ideas, the intellectual property that makes technology possible, there is no technology. Companies and countries that give away their intellectual property are chopping of their heads to profit their face.
1
I don't think there is any global skepticism about Huawei. Maybe there is in America. Huawei is making formidable inroads in many markets, and especially in Africa. It seems the US government is using its long arms to fight a proxy battle for American companies which are losing to Huawei in many overseas markets. This tactic will not work. It will transfer the trade war between the US and China to other fronts, and depress the world economy, as well as complicate global politics.
9
@parent-of-4-yr-old. Completely agree with you. All these made up charges were started by lobbying firms working for companies like Cisco years back when they felt threatened by Huawei. In this China bashing era, many Congressmen are more than happy to jump on the bandwagon. They appear to be defending the US from foreign espionage while getting more campaign donations from these American tech firms.
6
Let's see, the Bush administration authorized the NSA to bug Chancellor Merkel's cellphone as well as 34 other world leaders. Obama called French President Hollande to apologize after Le Monde revealed the US has accessed 70 million French phone calls over a 30 day period. Wonder if they use Huawei?
No country hoovers up more intelligence, often through illicit and illegal means, as the US does. And this is just what we do to our "allies".
Whatever Huawei is accused of doing is as easily alleged of their major American 5G network competitors like Cisco Systems, Juniper Networks, Hewlett Packard, which are all major US defense contractors. DoD is Juniper's largest client. In 2016, the DoD informed its IT contractors it needed a patch for a backdoor Juniper had in its networks.
October last year, Reuters reported in Newsweek that "Hewlett Packard Enterprise allowed a Russian defense agency to review the inner workings of cyber defense software used by the Pentagon to guard its computer networks, according to Russian regulatory records and interviews with people with direct knowledge of the issue." Gee, maybe we should warn other countries about HP.
Remember that the CIA developed hacking tools that allowed them to access Cisco System networks? Also Reuters reports that 70% of the US cyber security budget is spent on cyber offense.
I guess the takeaway is that we're afraid Huawei is doing what we already do more and better than anyone else.
15
@Yuri Asian
It is worth bearing in mind that, despite the Republicans, the United States of America is a democracy with a constitution, checks and balances, and a free press.
China is a dictatorship with a huge oppressed population for whom the wider world only exists in the form their dictator decides.
Moreover, for the last 30 plus years the US has been the sole superpower, and has not attempted to conquer the world, not even Tijuana. China, in her superpower nascency, is already eyeing off territory right across the globe under the pretence of charity.
2
After ZTE and Huawei, there are only two possible responses China can make.
Accept a subservient position where any promising high tech company can be crushed by the US.
Develop a high tech industry in chips, AI and cutting edge design which obviates US pressure - by any means necessary short of war.
The first is cooperation, the second confrontation.
Which way do we want this to go?
3
We act like our government was spying on us (Snowden slide decks) and asked to put back doors in our tech (at least asked?). Imagine China where you either put the back door in or they replace you with someone who will. Playing with this company is playing with fire.
When economic competition becomes too charged, we return to brute force.
3
New York Times states 4 countries in a list UK, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia. Add the USA to this list and we have the "5 eyes". The 5 eyes group's national intelligence agencies pass each others intelligence. In Asia, Australia and New Zealand's Area of Responsibility are Asia and the surrounding areas.
The USA is particularly sensitive to Huawei technology and what bad things can be used by these Chinese made instruments. The U.S. Armed Forces will not use Huawei equipment and for good reason.
Long before Trump became president, we have had problems with technology transfers to what we now know the Chinese to be a hostile power. With the arrest of Meng, the Chinese will arrest an American and there will be a start of the 2nd Cold War with China.
10
Oh my, there's a lot of heavy breathing and innuendo laced through this article. And not nearly enough history.
Go back to the Cold War - and even earlier - and the US gov't maintained a quite tight relationship with Bell Labs, the Bell system, and AT&T. The gov't got direct access to international communications as it saw fit, even before the NSA came along and added a vast pool of technical expertise to such spying. All the companies did was look the other way, at least until the 1975 Church Comm. peeled back the layers of spying to expose this relationship. That led to an era where the gov't tended to establish need for such spying, but ultimately got what it wanted.
A big deal was made after 9/11 to try to "loosen" these seeming strictures, but the GW Bush crowd basically tried to eliminate all such restrictions, impeded only by some hospital bed resistance from AG Ashcroft, facilitated by then Asst. AG Comey and the FBI head Mueller, that prevented continuing extension of the international program inside the US as it had been since 9/11.
I suspect the Huawei is in much the position to the PRC's gov't that our telecoms are to the US gov't. They simply go about their business and have to accept that they will sometimes be used by Chinese intel.
But let's quit pretending our side has some sort of moral high ground to defend. This is a dangerous game, essentially taking hostages under the guise of law enforcement. How long before a similar case finds a US exec jailed?
21
No nation in the history of the world has done what China has done. In a mere 70 years the Chinese leaders, the Chinese Communist Party and the Chinese people have created a state, caused that state to meet the challenges of modernization and now are taking their place as a leader among the world's powers. It took China just ten years to build one of the safest and modern high speed rail networks in the world, covering all of its five time zones. Though it faces many serious challenges regarding the environment and population growth as well social unrest, its suppression of Tibetans and the Uyghurs does not endear China to those of us in the West. It has often been said that in international relations there are generally no friends, no enemies, just interests and no nation can claim to be on the side of the angels. China is our rival but not our enemy. The world needs both the PRC and the USA to be agents for stability.
7
@Elliott Jacobson
True, China has made quantum leap in scientific invention, but also practiced thievery of intellectual property.
5
I've worked in telecom and consumer electronics my entire career. I've had Huawei as both a competitor and as a customer. They are tough and extremely aggressive. It is probably safe to say that Huawei is the cause of the demise of several telecom infrastructure providers (Lucent, Motorola, and others). They don't always play fair.
That said, what the Trump administration is doing here is serious. Attacking and blackballing Huawei around the world, and in such personal terms, is a dangerous escalation of a trade war that I am not confident that Trump can control and win.
19
@Mark, so companies who violate the terms of an intellectual property license should just be let off because not to do so would be a "dangerous escalation"? You've worked in tech all your life, is it a good thing when license agreements for your company's technology are violated? Good for whom?
5
@ondelette
What if France issues sanctions against Israel but the United States does not. (Not very far-fetched) Should an American executive visiting Germany be subject to arrest and extradition to France because he does business with Israel? Of course not.
This is why it is so important that sanctions be issued and enforced by all (or most) nations. While the US pulled out of the Iran nuclear deal and levied sanctions, all other parties (Europe, China, etc.) did not.
I’m not saying their isn’t an IP problem but rather that we should beware unintended consequences. If this sets a precedent it is a bigger problem than most people realize.
7
@ondelette in what way is Huawei any worse than Facebook? Is Zuckerberg next?
2
Ok, how about now arresting Lloyd Blankfein now that Goldman has been laundering money for the Malaysian guys in a big scam and Blankfein met with the guy who is now a fugitive.
17
Great.
Hopefully Sandberg and Zuckerburg are in the que.
13
China's reaction isn't unusual and fits a pattern of abuse, which has been going on for years!
Kidnappings, renditions, human-rights abuses, threats and intimidation is the norm for this mafia style government:
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/29/the-disappeared-china-renditions-kidnapping/
9
@The Critic Guantanamo Bay. Enough said.
I anxiously await news that Lloyd Blankfein was arrested and will be extradited to Malaysia since Goldman Sachs employees led a scheme to steal $6b from a Malaysian fund.
10
Nabbing the daughter only looks to the rest of the world like a version of: “Ya got a nice place. It’d be a shame if... anything happened to it.”
Because it is.
13
This highly publicised arrest has only propaganda value. It will go nowhere. Too bad my country was a willing co-conspirator. Trudeau the elder would have given the Americans the finger.
1
@waldo hardly. Canada is another country that has designated Huawei as a front for espionage and theft of intellectual property with direct ties to the Chinese government. I suspect the elder Trudeau would have considered the privacy of his citizens and the protection of their industries and arrested her as well.
17
China's reaction isn't unusual and fits their pattern of abuse, kidnappings, renditions, human-rights abuses, threats and intimidation!
https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/03/29/the-disappeared-china-renditions-kidnapping/
3
Why call China what in reality is
Communist China?
9
In fact all the countries named in the article are part of the "five eyes" intelligence network. This is a small cabal of English speaking, Western countries --- the U.S, U.K., Canada, New Zealand and Australia that have traditionally been allied together and view China as a threat. I like how the Times (a) fails to mention this fact and (b) describes the reaction of this small group of countries as "global skepticism". All I see here is a cocktail of insularity and a lack of self-awareness.
2
IMHO you cannot start a fight with China as long as Trump is president; he is utterly unreliable and too easy to bribe...
6
"The United States, which for years has considered the Chinese telecommunications giant a security threat" .... but cheap labor is soooo enticing right....
4
Let’s hope the evidence is as strong as the move to snatch the princess.
1
It may be relevant to mention that the PRC is preventing U.S. citizens Victor and Cynthia Liu from returning to the United States, apparently in an attempt to get their father to surrender to Chinese authorities. Perhaps the Chinese will now understand they are putting a lot of their traveling citizens with questionable backgrounds at similar risk...
https://www.foxnews.com/world/american-family-of-one-of-chinas-most-wanted-fugitives-banned-from-leaving-country
15
Huawei deserves its comeuppance. They started out by stealing Nokia's intellectual property, including the software that controlled their gear. I know this because I worked for telecoms in China in the 1990's back when Huawei was started.
29
@Steve Webster and I worked for Lucent at the same time. It was an open secret that Huawei was reverse engineering our gear (also Cisco) which they then marketed at much reduced prices to our customers.
8
@Cheri Of course no American company would ever reverse engineer another company's products, right?
I struggle to understand how the US can legally impose its sanctions on Iran on other countries like China and why the CFO of Huwai was detained in Canada, why is Canada legally obliged to do so?
1
How ironic it is for China to complain about the human rights of Ms. Wanzhou being egregiously violated! Have they forgotten the millions of Uighurs, hundreds of lawyers and human rights activists, and students looking to organized for union bargaining rights in their sweat shops and the rest of the oppressed who are tortured and jailed in this country. This a country that has an express goal of leading the world in 2050 with its brand of society, not to mention economics. It will be good to see the west push back and bring its legal authority to bear on this increasingly thuggish and criminal dictatorial regime that protects its 'princelings' and jails or penalizes the rest. The days of China walking away with our hard won technology and flouting international law are finally coming to an end, thank God for that.
12
@Rudolfrojas are you seriously arguing that two wrongs makes one right? Does that work the other way around? Its fine when US citizens are locked up because other US citizens and the government itself have done this or that to others?
About time.
I have been to China many times and have admired what China has turned itself into.
Discipline, hard work, willingness to move thousands of miles to support their families - they leave behind. The Chinese have proven that you can trasform - if not a society - it's infrastructure - in a heart beat. Even though, they have few political or even some might say human rights.
And this is in sheer contrast to India - where all kinds of rights are talked about, demanded and boasts of IT prowess etc. But with no hard work - India has remained firmly in third world status - and I suggest - will never get out.
But it is also clear that this Chinese miracle was based on outright thefts of intellectual property - mainly form America. I care about this property as my name is on a few patents.
Add to the theft, Beijing dictators - as all dictators - are extremely insecure. To increase their security - like other dictators - they spy, bribe, threaten or coerce - which they have done.
Meet our unconventional POTUS - willing to break china - in this neatly organized cabinet.
Say, what you may and many below say uncomplimentary things about our POTUS - but he needs to be credited for giving a "red" card - as our Attorney General famously said about FIFA.
Or simply put, what goes around, comes around.
24
@Neil Even a stopped clock gives the correct time twice a day. For the same reason this POTUS may get it right by accident but that feeds my anxiety rather than calming it.
@Neil Our Potus will fail in "breaking" China. Period.
They have been stealing and lying for too long. We cannot assume that U.S. Companies will do the right thing.
This action is a decade late.
18
The only global skepticism I see is the legality of the arrest and the supposed allegations made by the US. The US has a lot of finger pointing, but has provided no proof of anything.
3
@Dotard Tariff Man Obviously the US provided proof to Canada, which would not allow this arrest with serious proof.
4
Henry Ford was famous for saying that if he owned the gasoline, he could give his cars away for free.
Facebook gives you access to their products for free in exchange for spying on you forever. Then selling your personal information to whomever will pay them.
The Chinese cell phone companies are in the same racket. Sell the cheapest possible cell phone in exchange for eavesdropping on you day and night, anywhere in the world. How stupid are we to let this technology into our lives?
I hope the Canadians are finally developing a suspicion of the Chinese and their gobs of investment money. The Chinese already legally own most of the real estate in Vancouver. The next step will be kicking the Canadians out of their own city.
98
@sguknw It's not just the Chinese phone companies. Alexa, Siri and the ilk listen to you day and night.
My TV spies on me. Snowden let that cat out da bag.
But I agree with your question
10
China must learn that totalitarian approach won't work in international market place. China will never become a great power by simply dominating commercial or technological fields. For great power comes from humanity, respect of individual freedom, and beautiful culture that blossoms from a free society.
Wake up, China!
26
@Paul C Hsieh
I agree that totalitarian will not work. Look how people fret about illiberal government in Hungary.
@Paul C Hsieh
Good luck with that.
“in the long run we’re all dead”
As a Chinese American, I have to say that the racism expressed in this comments section is truly appalling. Are we really saying that because China ignores basic human rights when governing its' own citizens, that we can feel free to abuse Chinese nationals too? That somehow this is giving China what it deserves? Imagine China making a similar argument after Chinese police randomly gun down an African American tourist, "Who are they to lecture us about this when they do it in their country all the time?". And speaking of unjust incarceration, which country locks up the greatest percentage of their population? Hint: it ain't China. So, either we lock up a lot of folks inappropriately or, somehow, there are more criminals per capita in the US than anywhere else in the world.
25
@The F.A.D. At work today, on a Newsdesk, I was sent a letter asking why we hadn’t reported that - and I paraphrase - “black people were behind vicious assaults, because everybody knows the immigrants are filling our jails but The Media are covering up The Truth”.
Charming.
The point: the moment there’s any kind of trouble with a minority group or foreigner, that acts like a starting pistol for racists, bigots and other lunatics to start shouting about ‘Them’. The Other. Those who We All Kmow Who They Are, And What They’re Doing.
I see the same thing in several of these comments, substituting Chinese people in general, and en masse, as the subject to attack. While the Chinese government absolutely deserves caustic criticism for its truly appalling human rights record, and brutal treatment of millions of people - that doesn’t mean it’s okay or acceptable to simply have a free for all to attack Chinese people, or to make them ‘Them’.
The same applies for any minority or ‘other’ group suddenly made scapegoats for whatever reason; convenient vehicles to vent ire, rather than more justifiably criticizing individuals specifically on the basis of their individual actions.
Either way, this arrest seems like another typically harebrained idea by the Trump administration. Perhaps someone should let it know that acting like a feudal lord grabbing a rival kingdom ‘guest’ isn’t a great way to conduct business.
5
@The F.A.D.
Hmm. The scenario you describe, even if true, is not considered racism by any measure. Your argument is, however, the standard ploy that an apologist or a supporter of the repressive Chinese Communists uses to justify the criminal actions of dictator Xi while criticizing the lawful, just actions of nations acting in accordance with international norms of human rights and justice.
13
@Joe
Everybody talks about the Chinese government's "truly appalling human rights record, and brutal treatment of millions of people" as if they are experts in China and knows the country intimately. It is funny how the Chinese communist government enjoys the support of a larger percentage of its citizens than almost any Western democracies. France is not known for its human rights abuses, but why are its citizens rioting against a democratically elected government ? Why are African American people living in fear all the time just for being black ? The image the western media paints of China is somewhat different from reality, and people fall for this hook, line and sinker.
And as for IP theft, the Japanese were accused of the same sin in the 1960s and 70s, and American entrepreneurs thought nothing of ripping off German and British inventions during the 20s and 30s. Not to say that it is right, but those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.
3
“To detain someone without giving clear reason is an obvious violation of human rights,” Mr. Geng said.
This belongs on the Comics page.
23
Comments like this with Americans laughing at other countries' human rights belong to comics page as well while their police killing minorities, inmates in private prisons, prisoner tortures, invading other countries like Irak with no cause and many more...
1
The Bush-Obama group absolutely believed if Saddam Hussein was removed the people of Iraq would embrace free enterprise, democracy, free speech, freedom of religion . . . the American way of life. The Bush-Obama group took the same approach towards China. Look the other way, let their state owned enterprises grow fast for a while at our expense, and they’d ditch communism and become aficionados of the American way. The less polite approach now being implemented may not work. The Bush-Obama group may have dug the hole too deep. But to complain we’re pushing back now is goofy. Iraq probably is a lost cause. China could turn into a positive, though, but they’ll never do it voluntarily. If we continue to let everything slide Bush-Obama style the Communists will take it, of course.
5
@Walter
President Obama inherited Bush the Minor’s two UNFUNDED wars in error in the Muddled Waste.
7
Steal another country's trade secrets? Oh horror of horrors!
(Back in the day, the 1790s, we did the same thing to Britain as China is doing to us today. https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/12/06/we-were-pirate)
8
@Marek Edelman
Yes, now look at Britain today and the US today. Better yet, look at how Britain would have been able to defend itself against Germany had it not been for US intervention in WWI over 100 years ago.
Right now, China is a rising power, and we are caught in what is called the Thucydides Trap as we see China, our rival, challenging not only US dominance around the globe but also calling into question the legitimacy of our open society. Only a fool would look at this and think that the US should do nothing to stop it on the basis that Americans stole British intellectual property 200+ years ago.
12
@Middleman MD The Chinese are not calling into question the legitimacy of our open society. They are calling into question it's efficacy, by providing an alternative model. As for US "dominance" by what God given right does that exist? And is it something Americans have to fight for? Or should fight for?
3
@Marek Edelman
You have already made this point.
Really shame on US playing dirty here. Shame on Canada for going along. We in the US does not have the fine and reasonably priced Huiwei product that I saw in Europe.
Going after private citizen and leadership of a private company is simply shameless. Shame to be an american these days.
7
@Phoenix
Huawei is hardly a private company as the term is used in the United States.
Don't expect immunity from prosecution because you are Chinese or of Chinese descent.
Don’t expect US citizens to not loudly complain when their civil rights are being stomped on by a foreign power. Our country does a lot of stupid things but it will not be tread upon.
10
Are we still sticking to the principles or what? Please remember the US has always had a choice not to set up a business in China, not to share its technology...not to deal with Iran... but others can. It is called Freedom of Choice... Please don't paint others as bad guys when you are losing
9
@Peace
The Chinese steal US technology and intellectual property they could never develop on their own. That’s not “Freedom of Choice”, it’s called thievery.
9
@Peace, either you don't read carefully or you don't understand. Huawei is getting busted because it signed agreements with the U.S. to license or buy American technology, that none of it would be used in products sold to countries we are sanctioning from such products.
Huawei violated that agreement. It has nothing to do with losing, it has everything to do with signing agreements with the yang gui in knowing bad faith because they are arrogant.
5
It's funny that China is talking about "human right".
10
Somehow I wouldn’t be surprised if Trump uses a Huawei phone, especially if it’s inside a fool’s gold cover.
11
If the US is so concerned about losing control of its technology then lets form partnerships? Give foreign companies a minority interest ownership that allows each country to control its own technology and job market. Let’s keep it simple so consumers no matter where they live can benefit without becoming international pawns. We need each other and together we can build a better future.
3
@Peter Walker Ask someone at Cisco how they feel about losing control of its technology. Huawei started by coping Cisco equipment. Their network gear had the exact same command line syntax and unbelievably, even had the same security vulnerabilities as original. They just stole the code and supplanted Cisco.
Take this playbook, rinse, repeat...
50
@DMA What about the US competitors of Cisco? How did they start? No reverse engineering? Doubtful.
Gamesmanship not a great policy here. Upending the Iran nuclear treaty was a fool's move.
trump playing tiddlywinks when USA needs a chess master in charge. We're at Check. If China calls in U S debt it's checkmate and game over.
11
@Maureen You can not 'call in' US t-bills.
2
I was shocked and appalled that the spokesperson for China's Foreign Ministry would say this, "To detain someone without giving clear reason is an obvious violation of human rights."
Right now China is holding over one million Uighur people in concentration camps for "reeducation." China has also detained the head of Interpol for over two months now and has never allowed him a visit with his family. China has never offered any clear reason why it continues to violate the rights of its citizens by imprisoning them in camps and denying them visits from their families or human rights officials.
Meng Wanzhou is being held for violating American sanctions on Iran. That right there gives anyone far more understanding of her detention that a person has about the detention of millions of ethnic minorities in China.
71
@Shane
Sounds like two wrongs would make a right.
Whatever the US sanction is, it should only be obeyed within the US, not beyond its borders. Such move actually reminds me of Beijing arresting booksellers in Hong Kong for violating its publication law.
@Ju Then you simply have not understood why the arrest was made. When US companies (In this case HP) sell equipment to a foreign company (in this case a Chinese company) they are expressly forbidden to resell to certain third parties (in this case Iran) and the penalties are clearly spelt out in the contract. So US law certainly applies. No one put a gun to this Chinese company to buy the product.
8
@SJE It's not about whether Huawei has violated a US sanction or a contract, it's about whether US can apply the enforcement in a third country.
If Beijing ever passed any law to prohibit anyone supporting pro-independence group in Hong Kong or Taiwan, would this justify when China tries to arrest someone, especially a non-citizen, in a third country ? Anyway no one put a gun to them to support those groups.
1
maybe this is Big Brother's ultimate plan.
In the name of capitalism, these Chinese firms - backed mostly by Chinese government - go on acquisition spree. Then Big Brother takes over the company and conveniently all the assets with it.
3
Have no doubt about President Trump's never-ending announcements on the need to impose sanctions against Iran. Of course, China can feel free to continue providing equipment and services of sanctioned technology products with no limit.
No doubt, Pres. Trump will quickly have the arrest warrant vacated and send five dozen roses to the CFO of Huewae along with an apology for having the Canadians detain her and arranging for her extradition to the U.S. for willfully violating the U.S. sanctions.
"The United States, which for years has considered the Chinese telecommunications giant a security threat, aimed a straight shot at the company’s leadership when it secured the arrest, in Canada."
So how do we square Canada's cooperation in this matter with Trump's contention, backed by tariffs on Canadian steel and aluminum, that Canada is a threat to U.S. national security?
8
@batavicus It's a matter of treaty law between Canada and the US. Of course Canada is going to detain someone charged with an offense in the United States, it's signed a treaty with the US promising to do so.
2
Canada is becoming a world leader in ethics, a place vacated by the US since Bush junior. That's why the US military is going down the hill: lack of leadership. The US is by now way too obsessed with its own internal debates to have any kind of vision for its place in the world. The right thing to do would be to actually enlarge the military and triple its budget But Trump thinks he can take his blood-cash to heaven, where he can then replace Melania once her bobs have shrunk, so he'd rather let the country implode than to develop a strategy.
4
@batavicus
It's easy. The Trump administration position is "China good; Canada bad". Feel free to substitute Russia or North Korea for China and the U.K. and the E.U. for Canada.
2
A spokesperson for China's Foreign Ministry is quoted saying, "To detain someone without giving clear reason is an obvious violation of human rights." The U.S. doesn't detain senior executives of multinational corporations in such a fashion without good reason, and Canada certainly wouldn't go along with any such plan unless they concurred that action was warranted.
The most logical explanation for the arrest is American intelligence confirming with a high degree of certainty that Huawei has directly participated in espionage efforts against the country at a very high, threat-to-national-security level. The arrestee -- both the company's CFO and a daughter of its founder -- would likely have direct knowledge of such activities.
The Foreign Ministry's assertion reaches Trumpian levels of farce, however, after taking into account the fact that China has imprisoned A MILLION MUSLIMS for no reason other than indoctrination and brainwashing.
22
@Jeff Well lets detain all those working on Donald Trump's election 2016, there is a high degree of certainty they may have been involved with colluding with Russia to rig the 2016 Election.
1
Let's not forget that the sanctions on ZTE were lifted only after the Chinese govt lent $500m to a project that Trump invested in. For that alone, he should be sitting in prison.
If Huawei's crime is not observing the sanctions on Iran, so what? I don't see anything specific in this article describing real criminal activity.
13
@NewEnglander56
Huawei uses American technology under license. As part of the agreement for purchasing a license to use that technology, Huawei agreed not to share the technology with countries that the US government designates as verboten. Huawei violated that agreement. It's unfortunate that the article doesn't do an adequate job of explaining this, but that is the reason for the arrest.
11
China, it has just been revealed, has interred over a million Uighurs in Western China. They have been accused of having "a dangerous ideological virus." The camps 're-educate them to the errors of their ways and the valuable benefits of " the party and it's religion. " Justifying this massive human rights abuse as a anti-terrorism campaign. It takes 12-18 months. They have even taken some children from those who resit and but then in orfanages.
Huawei has violated U.S. laws; both exports to Iran and security concerns relating to their phones. Both Canada and Australia have banned their products. This action by Trump is sending another strong message to Xi that are will maintain our hard trade negotiating posture.
9
@Frank Leibold
So now U.S. criminal jurisdiction extends all over the globe?
It's not Huawei that is the culprit, it's the Chinese government. Huawei executives do not go the bathroom without it's approval.
Shouldn't we arrest Xi Jinping?
2
@Frank Leibold Huawie is a Chinese company, why should they be required to comply with American sanctions.
@Joseph B, because it was part of the terms and agreements for the technology they licensed and bought from the U.S. Are you saying because they are a Chinese company they can sign agreements in bad faith? That's the level of understanding they have at Stanford? Maybe we should look at what tech Stanford has licensed, too.
2
The entire Chinese economy has been built on stolen western technology and nepotism. As much as I dislike the current US administration, I applaud the pressure they are applying to China. It is a reckoning long over due.
55
@Erik Goodfriend problem is, this administration keeps undermining its own crusade by bad diplomacy elsewhere. It’s sad because if there was ever a time to put a check on China’s technological ascendancy, it’s now. Instead, Trump has hobbled US manufacturing at a critical time in order to save the already dying US steel industry and alienated all his potential partners in the region by pulling out of the TPP.
3
This is so confusing. Why/how can the U.S.A. arrest a Chinese National for violating U.S. law? We can't tell Chinese companies who they can do business with. If China declares a ban on business with Taiwan tomorrow can they abduct Corporate Officers in China? Really bad policy.
7
@msm "This is so confusing. Why/how can the U.S.A. arrest a Chinese National for violating U.S. law?"
If anything, this question is confusing. The U.S. can arrest citizens of any country who violate American laws, with extremely limited exceptions such as diplomats and heads of state. As a general matter, any nation can arrest citizens of any other nation for violating its laws. This is a basic tenet of international law.
While you're correct that the U.S. can't dictate who China can do business with, that likely has nothing to do with this arrest. As the article states, Huawei is viewed by Western nations as a potential conduit for both espionage and sabotage. A reasonable explanation for the arrest is the U.S. confirming that Huawei has been doing exactly that -- and likely in a fashion that poses a direct threat to national security.
4
@Jeff
What you said doesn't make sense. Almost saying U.S. can do anything because I see China rising. No excuses for such uncivilized act.
2
@Phoenix It's all but certain the U.S. detained a Chinese executive because they have unambiguous proof her company is engaging in espionage, likely against the government itself. How on earth is arresting someone who poses a clear and present danger to American security an "uncivilized act"?
As has been made painfully clear in recent years, not all "terrorists" are suicide vest-wearing radicals. Some are using cyberterrorism as a means of undermining Western democracy -- and I only *wish* that was an exaggeration, but it's the only reasonable explanation for the documented efforts on both China's part and Russia's to infiltrate American computer networks at every level: from social media to those of defense contractors, who've discovered breaches from state-sponsored hackers on numerous occasions (as have companies like Experian that manage the personal data of nearly every American adult).
3
All "private corporations" in China are under the direct or indirect control of the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party and it Chairman, the dictator Xi. Why does the NY Times pretend that this is NOT the case? When the NY Times present lies, either of commission or of omission, you are propagating false news, just like FOX News.
12
May I suggest that the Times and other news providers identify an expert in extradition law who can actually explain to readers the nature of the extradition process so the debate about this arrest and its implications can then be discussed with the benefit of proper context, Some issues to be explained might include:
- the basis on which the US Government can apply for a warrant and the type of material it must offer;
- the proper court having jurisdiction to issue the warrant;
- the basis on which Canadian officials are required to act on the warrant;
- the procedure to bring the person arrested before a Canadian court;
- the procedure by which a Canadian Court can consider bail for the individual arrested;
- the issues to be considered by a Canadian court before extradition is ordered or denied should the individual decide to contest extradition.
There may be more useful questions to provide information on that will help readers in the US, Canada and beyond understand what is occurring. I believe beyond just reporting an event, the media fulfills its role more completely when it educates the reader about events like this one.
23
@Jeff - My overarching point here is the importance of the media role in explaining these processes, dull as it may be, so there is an informed conversation and not just speculation which is uninformed.
The extradition process is governed by the treaty between Canada and the US and the Extradition Act of Canada. The act requires party seeking extradition to request a provisional arrest warrant from the relevant Canadian Government minister. The Attorney General of Canada will seek the warrant from a Canadian judge if the information in the request meets the legislative requirements. The relevant offence must be one known to Canadian law. If the court is satisfied then the warrant issues and awaits execution. Once executed the person is brought before the issuing judge. Within specified time frames the Minister must determine if it is appropriate to proceed based on statutory criteria including the determination of the requesting state to continue to seek extradition. If it is appropriate to proceed an Authorization to Proceed is issued and the matter is set for a hearing before a judge to determine if extradition should be ordered. The legislation and case law set out the tests to be met including a determination by the court as to whether,on material provided, the case meets the test for committal following a preliminary inquiry as set out in the Criminal Code of Canada.The outcome can be appealed.The bail provisions of the Criminal Code apply.
1
@jane m. hicks I'm a lawyer who's at least versed in extradition law, so I'll try and explain the basics. Most Western countries have extradition treaties with one another, albeit not generally in the literal, written sense. If a country can show just cause why a person inside a second country's territory merits detention or arrest, that country can opt to detain and deport them. (Such requests are very rarely refused.)
The procedures for doing so vary both by country and depending on the nature of the crime committed, but in this case the request likely came from an American intelligence agency (most likely the NSA, but it could've also been Homeland or the CIA). The Canadian legal system is similar to America's in many respects, so it's likely a judge evaluated the extradition request and granted an arrest warrant on that basis.
Unless the Huawei executive is also suspected of having violated Canadian law - and there's no mention of any such charges here - she would most likely simply be held until American authorities can take her into custody. (Her case wouldn't be adjudicated within the Canadian court system, in other words.) Given Vancouver's proximity to the U.S., the simplest means of transferring the executive would likely be transporting her to the border and handing her over to federal (U.S.) marshals. From there she would most likely go before a federal magistrate judge in Seattle, the location of the nearest federal court, and arraigned there.
10
We did want them to be capitalists? Who knew they would behave more like trump than Buffett.
12
@Walter McCarthy
Sorry ,but few American businesses are like Buffet. Just remember we invested, built, distributed & sold their products. We are known worldwide as the country who would sell their mother for a buck. What differentiates us from China? Our government,not the current administration, but our government of laws. EPA, FTC, etc.,etc. Why are we considered the #1 investment for Chinese in their safekeeping their money & children?
If Trump had his way ,he would be trading in America for a Trump Tower in every major city in China. Businesses are getting savvy as to Trump Republicans are the worst for America's future. Any future.
2
Huawei’s multinational ban is not a ban on the company. It is merely a marionette to the Chinese leadership. In the last few decades China has shown that it cannot be trusted and now that communist power has essentially been solidified into one individual, it has reinforced this. It’s time for international corporations to really evaluate their presence in China.
22
@I Heart
Quite of opposite. Trump appears to be desperately wanted US presence in China, and excluding China's presence in US.
1
The Chinese military and intelligence must be living the dream now. Their computers and phones are everywhere and you can bet the Chinese have "backdoor" software in every one of them. The temptation is too great for the military not to use it. They won't ignore an enemy opening its doors and inviting them in. Our greed will be our downfall. The Chinese only care about the Chinese and will use any opportunity to achieve their aims.
25
@markd While China manufactures the vast majority of the world's computers and phones, they do so using extremely detailed schematics created by the companies that designed the devices (nearly all of which are American or European). They also install operating systems on them that are wholly designed abroad.
Variances from these specs would be extremely easy to detect, as would any alterations to the source code in the units' operating systems. In other words, it would be extraordinarily difficult for the Chinese to install any type of "backdoors" into consumer products wholly designed in the West.
We already had one unwarranted "red scare" decades ago. I'd suggest trying to avoid another one.
3
@markd
U.S. is the one who wanted military and intelligence all over the world, and make everyday citizen pay for it. China has no interest in US but will not allow outside threat to its territorial security.
1
Lectured by the Chinese on human rights! The hypocrisy is too funny. On a more serious note, we shouldn't allow Chinese companies to build any of our important infrastructure. Let them stick to toys and trinkets until they can show they deserve more.
41
@fred
I love all my electronics made in China. Believe they are surpassing US and Trump is playing bully.
How fortunate to have a president who wanted to destroy world trade and world peace.
1
@fred
I know, right? Look at all of these nations China has invaded! Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq... it's terrible!
3
@fred
Yes, let's keep export more beans
“To detain someone without giving clear reason is an obvious violation of human rights,” said Mr. Geng, a representative of the authoritarian Chinese government. Do you think he delivered his sermon on human rights with a straight face? I imagine him delivering it with a smirk and a little twinkle in his eye.
13
Better hope she does not become ill or worse.
When nations cooperate, only mutual benefits ! With America first & only - only global conflict & disadvantages. We can yearn for the 'Gentler, kinder nation' of H.W. ! Bully, bluster, sanctions & coercion will only go so far - like over medicating, loses its effect, like what else now ? History will march on, coming to wise accommodation and harmony with it and be competitive is more effective - a peaceful world has enough space for all. Going kicking & screaming will not stop it (que sera sera) - the outcome is not yet determined anyway. Don't worry, be happy !
2
Can Iran issue an Interpol "Red Notice", or its bi-lateral equivalent, and have the Chinese arrest a few Facebook executives changing planes in Hong Kong for violating its' sanctions against Israel?
Under the Meng Precedent, why not?
11
I assume technically yes. Shows you which side of that divide international law leans towards. In other words, the Western legal framework and tradition has a lot more clout and recognition and (dare I say) validity than that of China or Iran...
@Marek Edelman, yes but only if the other nation signs. Huawei entered into agreements to use U.S. technology that is restricted. If you violate the terms with the U.S. government on such technology, it is a criminal act. Iran is perfectly entitled to write such agreements on its own technology and if someone violates them, seek their extradition.
2
@Marek Edelman
No because it has no UN legitimacy and the Internet has its own international regulations and laws.
all advanced nations snoop in on our phone conversations (domestically/internationally). China is no exception. The CIA (et al) could be snooping in as I type this comment. Privacy....what privacy. Get with it...privacy has gone the way if the dinosaur.
5
@jazzme2
Yeah,but no country protects its citizens like the US. Just look at how Trump associates got caught talking to Russians! Everyone knows they are monitored ,yet that didn't stop Trump. LOCK HIM UP!
SUMMARY: These people (companies) are using American technology whilst potentially - either stealing or bypassing US laws which are the terms of agreement for using that technology. Which is why the investigation being conducted is objectively reasonable.
15
The Chinese Communist government can forcibly detain, relocate, and “re-educate” a million Uyghurs and dare the world to question their actions. Detain one Chinese woman with probable cause to believe that she has illegally facilitated trade with the rogue state, Iran, and China suggests that it is a declaration of war.
Seems reasonable.
44
@NorthernVirginia - Readers of the NYT would be wise not to let their well-founded dislike of Donald Trump fool them into thinking that the Chinese government is in any way their friend or occupies anything resembling a moral high ground.
13
@Jim
You are deflecting.
What you really meant to say is: readers of the NYT would be wise not to let their well-founded love of a certain bear fool them into thinking that the Chinese government is in any way their friend or occupies anything resembling a moral high ground.
Those who are celebrating Huawei CEO's arrest on flimsy grounds would also be okay if Tim Cook or another American CEO is arrested in China? Let's tread carefully lest we start laying the ground for 3rd World War without even realizing... Wars, trade or real, are not easy to win... and even when won are costly. If they were easy, we would have been out of Afghanistan a long time ago .... Afghanistan, one of the poorest country on the planet. Think about that.
15
@Pat - It was their CFO not their CEO. And the reason we don't know the details of why she was arrested is because HER lawyers filed a motion to prevent the arrest warrant details from being made public. In other words, she's been a very bad person and is terrified of how the court of public opinion will treat her when the details become known.
20
“To detain someone without giving clear reason is an obvious violation of human rights,” said a spokesman for China's Foreign Ministry, Geng Shuang.
...and yet China detains people without a clear reason every day.
As we can see, the Trump administration has no monopoly on hypocrisy.
Just another nail in the coffin of civilization.
13
@AD
The nail in the coffin of civilization is jaded commentary without action. Anarchy is when no solution or agreement is desired.
“To detain someone without giving clear reason is an obvious violation of human rights,” Mr. Geng said.
China need only look west in their country to find something similar.
18
It isn't Trump doing this, thank God because he'd surely bozo it up -- which he may well end up doing.
It's the "deep state," actual professionals who work for the American people, not for the temporary occupant of the White House.
5
They make great products at competitive prices. Despite concerns, that’s what people buy. Their phones & laptop look amazing, even if I’m hesitant to buy one right now.
3
@TM - It's amazing how easy it is to offer competitive pricing when you can just steal technology instead of funding a real R&D program.
18
@Jim Name three things Huawai stole. I don't see any infringement suits in Europe or complaints with the WTO.
3
Actually Huawei just spent 6 billion dollars on AI technology development last financial year
2
Obviously it is not in America's interest to support Huawei or allow the use of its products in American infrastructure. Even if Huawei is not willingly aiding Chinese intelligence, the government will not have any trouble penetrating Huawei and placing spies on every level. So yes, Huawei most definitely is a vehicle of Chinese espionage.
But for the rest of the world, that hardly matters, because we only get to choose who spies on us and steals our industry secrets and wiretaps our communications. If it's not the Chinese, then it will continue to be the Americans.
There is also no moral difference. America imposes its will tyranically, like with the Iran sanctions that almost all nations except USA and Israel and some Arabs oppose, but America forces on us anyway by using its imperial power.
19
This was an international arrest warrant for which Canada is obliged to obey. Not surprisingly China is opposed. What will it take to bring Beijing to yield to international standards of comportment, decency and the rule of law? America First.
7
@Private: "Obliged to obey"??? Obliged by whom? Can China pass a sanctions law and then arrest a Google executive who is changing planes in Hong Kong for violating it? If Iran has a sanctions law against Israel (as I'm sure it does) can they ask China to arrest that same Google exec?
7
@Marek Edelman
As already conveyed to you the signatories of the U.N. reso!union and the U.N. Where you know they are on the Security Council.
Skepticism work in all directions here. The world has long nurtured relatively silent criticism against US tech giants. Will that stay silent?
2
It's a joke that Canada arrests Ms. Meng Wanzhou for the US, when Canada is letting in 1000's of undocumented immigrants into the country from the USA! What hypocrisy, and Canada is supposed to have a "Charter of Rights" for all people!
Ha!
4
@Majortrout
what does an arrest of a very wealthy Chinese have to do with whether South Americans get neeed residence in Canada? No one is suggesting that people from Mexico or Central America are also secretly committing espionage. The two issues are totally different.
12
Nicely done Trump - agree we cant trust a company hand in glove with China's Communist Party. Now can you also arrest some of our own American executives for violating the privacy of American citizens, arrest the Saudi Prince for killing an American resident, and then not pardon your thugs who were working for Russia. ..
116
@Ramesh G
Including himself.
4
Huawei is in the Silicon Valley recruiting and hiring engineers from all other tech companies. Not only Huawei, but other Chinese companies come to the SV to gain fast and easy access to coders who worked directly on our top technologies. Wake up America before it's too late or maybe it's already too late. Eventhough I never agree with trump, I think he’s right on this one
56
And Silicon Valley also recruits from all over the world.
16
@Zejee; not entirely true. Except for Firmware Engineers from India, SV recruits are mainly living in th US. I personally didn't hear of us brining anyone directly from China. In fact when they started moving tech factories to China, we had to train local their engineers and it was a nightmare due to poor English and engineering standard and also poor hygiene causing serious contamination issues.
10
@Zejee - No, not really. Most of the innovation is homegrown. Where they do hire globally, it's to take advantage of low wages not technical prowess.
2
Heaven forbid we violate the human rights of a Chinese citizen. What will China think of us? I haven't decided if this is warranted or not but puhleeze - gimme a break. This is China we are talking about.
15
@Brian Arresting someone does not necessarily violate their human rights. It's a question of what evidence we have and whether we followed legal procedures.
I certainly don't think we should violate anyone's human rights regardless of their nationality.
Do you really believe otherwise? Perhaps I should stay out of Woosta.
1
@Jack Toner You are misinterpreting Brians’s comment. The point is China does not respect human rights.
4
@Bill Neither does the US.
Curious, the number of pro-China, anti-American voices, including some who post here on NYT practically as a full-time job, who have emerged to defend President Xi, his pet telecom company Huawei, and the Chinese way of life and corrupt/thieving corporate growth, not to mention espionage and sabotage.
Very curious.
79
@Enemy of Crime; China's allies already infiltrated our communication network.
5
@Enemy of Crime
The paper doesn’t have the resources (two determined IT guys) to weed out the Chinese trolls. You know, zero in on those loudly complaining and predicting certain doom (China will dump all US Treasuries!), look at all past postings of that person, compare all his past IP locations (physical locations change with every posting? TOR browser?), check hours of posting (Good morning Shanghai! Wake up Unit 61398!), look for grammatical errors . . . the possibilities are endless when you actually try. The paper might even or even require the person to use the same computer with every posting.
10
@Enemy of Crime - It's not all suspicious. Many comments are from people who have let their very reasonable hatred of Donald Trump skew their view of reality, unfortunately. I personally can't stand the crook in the Oval Office, but if tomorrow he tweeted that 2+2=4 I wouldn't feel illogically compelled to disagree with him.
3
We were told that we should do business with despotic, repressive governments, they would adopt western liberal democratic values. Now that they have hollowed out the middle class due to the greed of western multinational corporations, we are told that we are too dependent on them for trade to do anything about their business and human rights practices.
46
China is not our friend. They seek to supplant us on the world stage. Their values of one man rule, government involvement in all levels of life, and intimidation of their populace is not compatible with our principles. All this talk of linking our economies as a way of moderating their aggression, has not changed their mind one iota. We need to recognize we are dealing with an enemy and take appropriate steps.
320
@Bruce1253
"China is not our friend." China is a growing-up country. Governance is different when a country is at least 5x as large as we are with immense problems to solve. We should not obsess on our different realities. Nor is our democracy a pure role model for others: corrupt political practices, no rules regulating Wall Street's greed, racial tension, a love of military action in countries that haven't attacked us, disgraceful income disparity. Why jump to the word "enemy"? Here we have companies that are totally competitive, but they don't think of war as the answer. Shape up, America!
96
@Bruce1253 are you sure it's appropriate to bring "friendship" into this?
Your president thinks buying steel and aluminum from Canada is a national security risk. It would appear he has upended the old maxim and now keeps his enemies distant and his friends even more distant.
60
@MGL
What would YOU call someone who's state computer people attack our military and business systems? A country that routinely tries to suborn our citizens, a country who seizes territory in the South China Sea, seeking to create a choke point for shipping in that region of the world. Who spies on our people and seeks to influence our universities. A country who's trade policies are designed to keep others out and to rob technology of those it allows in the country. A country that is on an aggressive military build up. At the least such a country "Is not our friend." These are the actions of a country that is the enemy of another. I think it is better to recognize that their actions do not match their words and treat them as such.
103
Right, sue your only banker and arrest your smartphone.
5
Donald had her arrested while shaking China leaders hand; trust the don much? Ray Sipe
The Chinese will rule in the end because they cheat
7
Huawei makes excellent cell phones, with Chinese developed technology. They are not dependent on US chips anymore, and they are competitive. Their battery life is legendary, and they are very popular outside the US.
6
@Nord Bundy
Can you identify a single critical Chinese invention or patent underlying the modern smart phone? Every cell phone china makes relies on pilfered technology from short sighted Western companies which moved manufacturing to China to save on cost.
31
@Nord Bundy
The U.S. has literally sold its soul for higher profits. It was in the 80's they began telling us that we were "shifting" to a service economy, and that the countries that could manufacture things more cheaply should do so. Now we have acres of "service" jobs that pay nothing. We sent all of our manufacturing to China. Guess who's got all the cash? So...how's this all working out for the middle class here?
11
@Nord Bundy - Is this a joke? Can you name one demonstrable way in which their phones are better than US or Korean phones? And can you list one substantive "Chinese developed" patent underlying their phones?
5
The irony in the statement from China's foreign minister that detaining her without stating a reason is a violation of her basic human rights is so thick that you need one of those fancy Japanese knives that can cut through tin cans in order to cut it.
But, with all the censorship in China, it may be that no one over there is even aware of the blatant hypocrisy. It's interesting to read this article after listening to the great two part series on China by the Daily podcast this week. We are certainly at an interesting point in time in the relationship between our two countries.
23
@Mike
Some chutzpah on part of Chinese foreign minister. Tibetans and Uighirs know the Chinese human rights policy very well.
11
@Mike Spot on. "To detain someone without giving clear reason is an obvious violation of human rights,” said China's Foreign Ministry spokesman Geng Shuang, about no Chinese Uighurs ever.
3
I think they've given clear enough reason, unfortunately...
Why would any country want a repressive dictatorship monitoring the most intimate communications of its people?
Boycott all Chinese telecommunication devices until the regime stops its ubiquitous surveillance.
16
Huawei predatory pricing of their telecom products - selling below cost of production - helped to bankrupt Nortel and ensure that all western telecom equipment manufacturers were only marginally profitable, if at all. Plus ensured exponential growth in Huawei market share. But - as we were told ahead of setting up a joint lab in China in the 90s - 'it's critical to do business in China'.
29
@crosem
John Roth, the CEO of Nortel when it went bankrupt was the one most responsible for the bankruptcy of Nortel!
2
Huawei’s practices are simple. They give products and services away for free to kill any competitors because they are sponsored by the Chinese Government. I always wondered why they were doing this. Now it makes total sense. NEVER TRUST A COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT!
44
Please. The US govt subsidizes soybeans to keep farmers in the business of exporting to China.
I would rather export iPhones and telecom equipment than beans.
10
@Nord Bundy, I would rather export phones and telecom equipment than beans. Sir, I have no idea who you are but I don't take issue with you this should not an either or argument, but an embrace of free and fair international trade. I have children who have been on International trade missions to sell America's AG bounty. 25 years ago while serving on an Area Board of Education, I was told that Asians were going to do the manufacturing and that the Industrial Age was over. The Information Age was upon us and that we would handle the money. My response was as follows. What makes you think that Asia's can't count? I further added that this nation needed to continue to build new wealth and not "paper wealth" but real tangible wealth. Renewed every year by having created something of real value. Now mind you I am no supporter of Mr. Trump and his policies, he as he has always been a day late and a dollar short.
4
@Clark Kent
Especially, when Huawei has no R&D costs, they can just steal and until Trump, US government will just look the other way. How stupid can a country be.
1
Trump catalyzes evil politics against China that does nothing but hurt business and drag us closer to conflict with China. This is completely stupid. And it comes from the most corrupt president this nation has ever known. The only think to do now is to release the Huawei executive and back away from this stupid move before it is too late.
12
@Blue Zone You are only half right. Trump is corrupt to the core. But Huawei’s business practices, which I have seen first hand, were always suspicious. They have cause to do this, plus China does this all the time even tho 2 wrongs don't make it right.
16
@Clark Kent
Agree. The rational answer is to arrest Trump at the same time. The world would be a better place then: Lock him up!
I could see a play being written of a conversation between the two of them locked up in the same cell, bemoaning the world's failure to recognize their greed as genius.
1
“The Chinese government and Chinese companies must face these new circumstances, take up new countermeasures and get through this stage of crisis,” Fang Xingdong, the founder of ChinaLabs,
Oh, and how about play fair and play nice?
17
No way China is going to playing nice. You are dreaming. Wait for the stock and your Silicon Valley housing market reaching bottom.
Given Mr. Trump's past performance as a serial liar and obsessive-compulsive tweeter in addition to his questionable associates, a legitimate question is :
Is this arrest an attempt to further manipulate financial markets for personal gain?
13
It's like the old game show "Who Do You Trust?"
- the Chinese government with its totalitarian political agenda seeping into the guts of worldwide connectivity and information flow - our collective personal and national information
OR
- our own incompetent administration, that pretends to be the US Government, which is infecting our affairs and capabilities on myriad levels
The fact that other Western democracies are wary of this company's reach into the most sensitive workings of our tech dependent societies says a lot.
I just wish our society had a normal person with more than a 4th grade intellect and vocabulary to take on this important issue.
131
Security concern may be true, buried reason is to stop China from taking over global leadership role in technology.
American likes to accuse China of copying or stealing Western technology, the table has turned; China has come to pass that now to lead 5G development and commercialization.
20
I don't know if I should be happy or scared that the US is finally playing hardball with Chinese companies. It was high time that we stood up tp the Chinese but it scares me that an incompetent administration and a erratic president is in charge of this policy.
425
@KEO
At $17.419 trillion, the United States boasts the largest economy in the world and is China's largest trading partner. Last year the total value of bilateral trade between the two countries was $590.4 billion, with U.S. imports from China valued at $466.7 billion and U.S. exports to China valued at $123.7 billion.
If there were any trade secrets that were stolen by China, how about blaming the America companies who have invaded China for the purpose of manufacturing their products there!
27
As much as I dislike the president, the pushback is correct. Keep up the pressure
18
If you want to stop China, stop buying their products... but of course to buy USA you will pay 50% more and get an inferior product.....
6
As a Global data network engineer, I saw avoidance of Huawei back to 2007. Mainly in the "Five Eyes" countries (that share raw intelligence data with the US NSA).
That was coincident to when Huawei began to ship Metro Ethernet and Cellular backhaul equipment that was popular (and not just for price). We told our clients (national Telecoms) about the risks, but their response was basically, "we know, but we can't afford US gear".
Huawei tried to address this issue by opening a software lab in San Jose CA, and opening their code to inspection, however the spyware was hidden in the chip firmware which wasn't shared.
184
@OSS Architect
Huawei has basically no R&D cost. Reverse engineering is far cheaper than de novo development. Then as a Chinese government owned company, they have no need to be profitable in short term, and can dump goods to gain market share. Two decades were wasted in combating this cancer. Now surgery is out of question, and systemic chemotherapy to clear this metastasis from Western economy is needed. As with any chemo, side-effects will be painful.
33
@Barbarika
Excellent analogy.
11
@Barbarika
“Huawei has basically no R&D cost.”
FYI, according to Financial Times Huawei spent $14bn on R&D last year and will raise this annual budget to at least $15bn for the following years, making Huawei one of the biggest R&D spenders in the world.
Seriously people need to judge by facts and evidences rather than prejudice.
4
Please stay calm, President Xi and Good People of China.
No WW3.
7
@njglea
If you think they will be merciful to you for your Trump hatred and Xi love, you are sadly mistaken. Useful idiots are first to be eliminated by communist strongmen.
3
What some international commentators might not quite understand is that the judicial systems in Canada and the United States are reasonably transparent and largely outside of the political control of those countries' executives. It is exceptionally unlikely that her detention is related to the ongoing trade war.
If there is no basis for Meng Wanzhou's detention, her lawyers will be able to argue that in front of a judge quite soon. But if she is guilty of violating US criminal law, should we really be surprised or upset that the US is requesting her extradition?
24
@pete -- "the judicial systems in Canada and the United States are reasonably transparent and largely outside of the political control of those countries' executives"
That is a popular myth.
If the executive wants to get someone, especially a foreign national or company, it can and will do it.
Not only the executive.
6
@Mark Thomason
Really? Can you cite any case where a Canadian court bowed to 'the Executive' aka the Canadian government?
Canada isn't America. Canada's legal system is based, and still largely operates on, the British model. Independent means independent.
18
@nolongeradoc -- I don't know Canada. He wrote, "and the United States." This warrant came from the US, and is being executed on behalf of the US by extradition treaty, thus if there is a political component, it is in the US.
1
We're supposed to be really impressed by this. Tell me: what happens when the power goes off? Tech marches on!!! Your phone won't work, ATMs won't work, gas pumps and drinking fountains won't work, and routers and servers and satellites won't work. It's always been about money and POWER (either gas or especially electricity). It is now, and it will be in the future. Existential greed is everywhere. Are we impressed? And communism and Chinese old men (and young women CFOs) are ridiculous liars.
2
The NYT reports that "Now, all around the globe, the walls are going up for Huawei." That is not my observation. Anyone who travels the world is aware that Huawei phones and infrastructure are pervasive. The P20 with Zeiss lens is in great demand. The Bangkok metro is plastered with ads for Huawei products.
Then the times explains. "But lately, Huawei’s setbacks have come on multiple fronts, from New Zealand and Australia to Britain and Canada."
Hmmmm, what do these four countries have in common? English speaking? Mostly non-Asian? No, what they have in common is that these are exactly the countries over which the US has the greatest political leverage. They are the countries where the US State Department and CIA have strong-armed the governments into agreeing to ban Huawei products. This is based on no evidence of ANYTHING wrong with Huawei products. There is zero evidence that Huawei products contain any sort of spyware.
The US has been on a campaign against Huawei for years. And we have twisted the arms of our allies to help with this. The rest of the world is quite happy to buy lots of Huawei's cutting edge products, particularly 5G infrastructure. Maybe the US should just get its act together and compete.
And the NYT is not overing both sides of this story. It calls out every lie that comes out of Trump's mouth, but doesn't mention that is was the US NSA that broke into Huawei's data center in China to steal email and technical data.
34
@ShenBowen
Small points. The big point is that China, though not militarily aggressive like most dictatorships are (yet), has a billion people basically imprisoned, steals intellectual property as a matter of state policy, and dumps state produced products on world markets to sink foreign competition.
79
@ShenBowen Still, why take the risk of using telco tech from a company beholden to the Chinese government? Doesn't make a lot of sense from a risk-management perspective.
30
@jamesk: Please visit China before making the claim that it has a billion people imprisoned. No one visiting China for any period of time could possibly hold that view.
12
It seems USA has decided to stymie
Chinese high-tech companies as
refelcted in sanctions against ZTE
and Huawei. There are American
companies doing substantial business
in China. Apple alone does $50 Billion
sales in China. Chinese can retaliate
against those companies. There will
be no winner in this war. It is funny
that CFO is held responsible for
selling equipment to Iran,etc. CFO
doesn't make these kinds of decisions.
It is in the realm of marketing with
the approval of CEO. This lady should
be released if USA is serious in conducting trade negotiations with
China. An Indian diplomat was arrested
for violation of labor laws. India made
lot of fuss about and USA caved in
and released her.
2
Apple has significant leverage in China as a HUGE manufacturing employer and exporter with almost all of their products stamped ‘Made in China, Designed in California’. Chinese tech firms don’t have the same leverage in the US.
3
Another successful Chinese company built on the bones of stolen IP from the West.
206
Prove it. Huawei leads in 5G.
15
IP is a joke. Patent rights are archaic and in need of much reform. Reform that doesn't game "the people". innovation will not be inhibited one iota post reform.
7
Not exactly. They invested in optical broadband h/w R&D which wasn't an area of investment for US Telco's; so US NEPs (Network equipment providers) didn't invest either.
Asia and South Asian countries (include Australia) went into large scale government subsidized build outs of next generation optical fiber broadband (OBB).
Under Ajit Pai, the US continues to be the last place runner in WAN broadband deployments. America is not "exceptional" when it comes to broadband or cellular coverage.
35
Apple, Facebook and Google are all best friends of the Chairman Xi, the dictator who runs the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party, the only party allowed in the massive Chinese slave state.
Apple, Facebook and Google are also best of Vlad Putin, the murderous and genocidal dictator who runs the Russian fascist state.
If Americans want someone to blame, blame Wall Street, corporate America and Congress for selling the United States out to China.
Trump isn't wrong to attack China. Trump is merely stupid about it because Trump is more like Xi and Putin than he is like an American president, but Trump isn't even 1/3 as smart as Xi or Putin.
That's why the United States is on the verge of becoming the world's third power...behind China and Russia. American stupidity.
99
@Jay David The politicians, Wall St. , and the bankers knew who they were dealing with when they allowed China into the WTO, NAFTA, MFN, etc. They were blinded by their greed. Now I'm supposed to help bail them out. They're the masters of the universe, let them use their money, brains, and children to figure it out. I'll volunteer to help when they have been rung out, and spent ALL their money.
11
Russia can’t even compare to California in terms of economy.
14
@Kite But Russia has more nukes, and greater impact on U.S. elections.
6