In a Seething Pro-Brexit Town, Doubts Creep In About Leaving the E.U.

I don’t know, I don’t care and what does it really matter? A tiny island people are in the process of slitting their collective throats. Nation states come and go, the U.K. will be just one more on the junk pile of history. It won’t be long after Brexit before Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland split grom Great Britain leaving all of them to fend for themselves. That, my friends, is the true course of human nature. By the way, the same will be true for the USA.

Would these people please shut up. They had a choice with their vote and now they don’t like their choice, too bad. You don’t get to change your mind, or your vote. Who is to blame for voters who were misinformed or under informed. It’s the responsibility of the voter to educate himself/herself. You made your bed, now go and sleep in it. Happy dreams. Ugh.

While, living 20 minutes away from Sunderland, I agree with much of this article, there is one thing that they get wrong about why people voted leave. In a study done by the Centre for Social Investigation, people were asked to rank their reasons for voting leave. These were the options: 'I wanted the UK to regain control over EU immigration' 'I didn’t want the EU to have any role in UK law-making' 'I didn’t want the UK sending any more money to the EU' 'I wanted to teach British politicians a lesson ' The fourth option was ranked first by less than 5% respondents, and last by 88%. This should, but hasn't, dispelled the misconception that voting leave was about teaching the British politicians a lesson. It simply wasn't that important to leave voters, leaving was mostly about an attempt to increase the countries self-determination for those who voted for it.

It is certainly crude but it is also the truth. The whites have this attitude of entitlement. It is the core of the Brexit philosophy. It is the core of Trumpism. Now, we need to see when will the American White poorly educated and trained Trump-base awaken to their own realities.

It is not that voters are stupid it's that they are ill-informed about the pros and cons of specific economic policy measures. Just as Americans may soon find out it is it is not so simple to stick it to the Chinese without Americans feeling negative economic consequences, or that the French yellow vests protesting in Paris may end up badly hurt tourism and retail inadvertently some middle-class jobs, the people in Northern England may find in the end a Brexit withdrawal hurts them. . There are no simple choices, only costs and benefits to be weighed. How will that happen in misinformation-sharing culture we live in now?

Compare Brexit to Siamese twins: if the connection is too strong, separation is practically impossible. Claiming that it is possible does sell newspapers and helps to win elections, though. It is however completely dishonest. The claim is not a simple one-off white lie, it has consistently and for many years, if not decades, been repeatedly stated.

Like here in the US, self imposed ignorance results in low information voters. Politicians and corporations count on an uneducated populace to get what they want. How do you think Facebook makes billions....? Never forget: “I love the poorly educated” – DJT, February 24, 2018

Brexit, France's "yellow vest" movement, and the election of Trump are reactions to the huge wealth/income inequality gap of these countries. Many commenters disparage the intelligence of those who voted for Brexit and Trump. Perhaps one should question the intelligence of the elite who did not sense and do not understand this huge swell of discontent. One does not have to be uncomfortable with ethnic diversity, to be angry when unlimited numbers of people from the poorer EU countries can move to the UK, work for lower wages and access the benefits your tax dollars have long paid for.

I don't understand why " the boy was expelled" after pleas for extra attention.

Casting your vote to “stick it to” anyone - British elites, American elites - never a good move. You never know what kind of mess you might create. But elites in democracies around the world lost because they failed to listen to the embattled middle class who has been losing jobs and their faith in good futures for their families. Economic globalism might be the reality, at the expense of middle-class jobs, but elites seemingly chose one over the other. Now we all pay a far higher price for “stick-it-to-them” votes, far more than anyone expected, left with bad decisions like Brexit and morally void leaders like Trump. Lose-Lose.

The Brexit leaders have bailed out and are snuggled up in their country estates. They are waiting out the train wreak, ready to emerge into an England where the now even more destitute masses know their place and class reigns supreme.

Our US leaders--especially Trump, his Republicans, and his heralds on Fox News--have done the same thing: exploiting popular suffering for their own advantage. Yes, Britain should stay in the EU. And the US should stay in our treaties--We should respect our treaty limiting nuclear weapon development in Iran and seize and enlarge on the treaty taking action to prevent climate change. In both countries, our leaders have done us dirty.

This is a very well-done article. There is often a grim, Dickensian quality to places like Sutherland. As this story illustrates, as is the case with places like coal mining areas in West Virginia and Kentucky, real grievances get side-tracked by resentments against the "other" that are exploited by Trumpists and Brexiters so that the less fortunate vote against their own interests. One can empathize up to a point but it is not as if the consequences of misguided votes were a secret.

Terry May has done fine and should not be sacked, but the Art 175 Euro Crt of Justice jurisdiction provision, backstop making UK perpetual vassals of Brussels, etc. make the deal unworkable. MPs of all sides, including May, should vote against. Europe, not UK, will panic as March approaches. WTO and other regimes are sufficient. UK can provide "inclusion" relief for sectors if and when they are adversely impacted. USA will airlift pharmaceuticals etc as needed. UK can also follow the agreement w/out signing as custom to the extent that it is a workable framework while future piecemeal treaties are negotiated. Easy. UK will avoid the debtor nation / austerity train wreck that will destroy EU w/in 10 years. The Tuesday vote against will be one of UK's finest hours; public and politicians should all celebrate. Rees-Mogg, Redwood, Johnson and Farage should all be pushing post-Brexit trade deals. USA is ready to go.

The United Kingdom should continue to be a member of the EU!!!

Most of the populace is always ignorant and gullible, but that is not the problem. The real problems are the cynical Murdoch-led media and the smart elitist Tories, who must be aware of how the British economy (and the EU economy as well) will be hurt by the separation, but are willing to sacrifice the common good for personal gain. The negative ramifications for the economy have only recently come to the fore, and earlier the public was only presented endless cherry picking of trivia that put the EU in a bad light. May and her cronies have not been acting in good faith: they are wise enough, and cannot claim ignorance.

Great deal of people and communities did not appreciate what they were getting from the EU. Those exact communities had complete misinterpretation of what BREXIT really is. They were targeted for their votes and now they will be the one suffering. The misconception of Brexit being - no Pakistani or Kurd immigrants, Britan 'keeping' the money they were giving to EU etc., is only now being 'felt'.

What is most interesting is the disconnect for the people who want Brexit. They want to separate for the EU yet most of the work they do is exported to the EU. The people interviewed for the article didn't seem to understand the ramifications of Brexit and only now seem to feel that the government is letting them down. Further, after reading, it is unclear that they even had an understanding of what was supposed to happen. It is obvious that, as a people, they were sold a bill of goods and the political class that sold it to them have all run off.

I find it interesting that, according to this article, Pro-Brexit voters are changing their minds. Meanwhile in the USA voters who went for Trump for the same reasons have not abandoned him at all. Can we conclude that the US propaganda machine is much more efficient?

Brexit has become such a mess that the Times can now document Britain's change of mind. P.M. May has negotiated a non-event. A short (but probably to be extended) period of stay as it is, and a non-binding 25 page hope for future negotiations. It is such a non-result after 2 years of negotiation that it will be soundly defeated in Parliament on Tuesday. Parliament will probably make it clear that a no-deal Brexit is out of the question as it will bring unacceptable economic decline. The Labor Party leadership is even more clueless. They assert, without any back-up, that they can negotiate a better deal with the EU. The EU responds confidently that is impossible. What Labor really wants is a new election. That's not going to happen. The Shadow Labor Brexit Secretary is pushing for a second referendum. IMO the likeliest outcome, and if the Times article is any indication, and I think it is, the UK will remain in the EU.

I grew up in this area of the UK and now live in the European Union. I 'escaped' this world and am now an entrepreneur, but, totally understand the grievances people have here - they're just directed at the wrong enemy. I have an insight into the two bubbles well, and they're talking past each other. Try and see it from both sides. When the main industries were decimated under Thatcher it created a vacuum which has never been replaced. Appalling standards of education, lack of opportunities for any skilled employment - drugs, drink, family issues have created a lost generation which is what I grew up in. People who have no hope for their future, even less for their children's future. Facing even more redundancy from automation, no opportunities to develop skills, insecure and badly paid work, state support being removed, and a metropolitan elite who treat them with total disregard. Can we be surprised that they took their one opportunity to frustrate the establishment? They were lied to through years of tabloid press demonising the EU, by demagogues who painted a picture of the 'good old days'. Don't blame them, because they were lied to, blame the liars. This was their one chance to poke the ruling elite in the face, so they took it. You would have done the same.

All this does is demonstrate everything that was wrong with the brexit vote. The motivations of many of those voting to leave had nothing to do with freedom from or resentment of the E.U. and everything to do with giving the governing elite in Westminster a bloody nose. It has since been shamelessly exploited by factions of that same elite for their own self-serving and cynical ends. None of them will be harmed by it, but they might gain a further, firmer foothold in the new elite to come. The people and areas who will suffer the most harm will be those who most voted for it.

Actually the city of London is going to be one of the least protected areas of the British economy when Britain leaves the EU as it will lose the essential passports required to do business there. Neither has the government done anything to protect Nissan the largest employer in the area other than provide some secret letter of comfort should they suffer hardship when Britain leaves the EU which it hasn't yet. Nissan btw exports about 70% of its output to Europe and about 80% of the parts in the cars they make are imported from Europe. They also rely on frictionless trade for the entry of these parts for the JIT manufacturing process. Without frictionless trade the Nissan operation will ultimately move to Europe. As the company has said their Sunderland plant is a European investment based in Britain. Unfortunately these people do not understand where their best interests lie.

I get the anger about austerity, but, Brexit is (IMHO) going smash this community. It will not only leave the UK poorer, but also in a poorer position politically. It is also likely to lead to bits falling off (or running away). Brexit as I understand it is an English phenomena, not shared nearly so enthusiasticly by the Welsh, Irish or Scots. I doubt anyone, (May & co,) has the smarts to stop that country having spectacular 'car crash.' (I wonder if it will weaken the mens cricket team)?

The wages of spite and xenophobia : Brexit in the UK and Trump in the USA. I hope a lesson has been learned by those who supported these twin nightmares, but I have my doubts. Fear and hatred are powerful motivators and many, too many, will cling to dreams of a false ideal past like an infant to a favorite blanket. Too bad we have to go down with them.

It is always refreshing to read journalism from outside the UK to see how things look by others. In the main stream media, very little of what you say in this article has been published. I am astonished at the level of ignorance regarding the actual benefits we receive from the EU. Having said that, I fully appreciate the frustrations of the population in that town, they have been well and truly 'shafted' by politicians, certainly conservatives but also by New Labour under Blair and Brown who were content to see industry rot on their watch. This aspect I think is the reasoning behind the current Labour party position, these people have in the past let down their natural supporters and are now keen to show that they now understand their plight. I voted remain and cannot see how any 'deal' will give an overall benefit. Remember the austerity programme is 100% political. It is counter-productive taking money out of the economy the evidence is there for all to see.

It's about xenophobia, that's it. If the leave voters could not see that it was their own government, who they voted for that gave them declining conditions, it is their own fault. Far too willing to blame it all on the EU, immigrants. If they choose to be uninformed and easily swayed by the far right, they deserve what they get. The far right, funded in part by US interests with the same machinations and rhetoric used in the US to easily persuade those who hold bigoted attitudes. If the government allows the far right to win it will be one of the most disastrous moves the UK has made in history.

As we learned here in 2016, voting to "stick it to the establishment", doesn't always get you the result you wanted. I used to think better public education was the solution. I don't anymore. People get the government they deserve.

Immediately after the referendum I was appalled when someone said "I voted to leave because I hate Cameron" This in Derby whose three major employers are critically dependent on the free movement of goods with the EU

I can agree with this article having plenty knowledge of the area, but it leaves out a couple of very important points. One the media especially the Rupert Murdoch owned press (The Sun read by most working class people) has been denigrating the EU since the U.K. joined. Two the politicians blamed Europe for their own failings and claimed credit for anything that went right.

My initial reaction was "you asked for it." But then I caught myself: it is a mean thing to say. People's life are at stake here. If there is a chance for the 2nd Referendum, the Brits should not hesitate to try again. Yes, it will cost a bit money and more mental anguish to some; but Brexit will be likely irreversible once it is commenced. And it will be to the UK's disadvantage. So the Brits need to take their 2nd chance seriously. This is not about sending a message and think they could change their mind in 2 or 4 year time. So, to the people of the UK, think again when the pied pipers like Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage come marching passed your doors, you follow them at your own peril

I moved to Cambridge a year ago and quickly learnt that nearly everyone in Cambridge voted to remain in the EU. So it's been pretty difficult to talk to and understand the people who voted for Brexit. Of course, Cambridge has the University and now Silicon Fen - Alexa, biotech, pharma, startups. There's local economic growth but unfortunately, housing is no longer affordable. Still for other parts of England like Sunderland, it's terrible that voters weren't able to consider the extent of EU subsidies received to help them alleviate poverty and promote local economic development. It was horrifying to discover the extent of British people depending on food banks. This is a really good article. Hopefully, the UK will reverse course before March 29 and remain in the EU.

I went to Twickenham yesterday to watch Oxford play Cambridge at rugby. The players were universally white and from the UK or the Commonwealth, as were the vast majority of privileged spectators. The catering and security staff were almost universally black or brown. I taught in the late 70s and early 80s in Moss Side in Manchester and Neasden in London. These were, and are, multi-racial boroughs. Forty years ago, I thought we were moving forward. Yesterday brought home to me the fact that we are going backward. We have more than Brexit to worry about.

I was raised in Sunderland, at a time when it still had the heavy industries, coal and glass and shipbuilding, that had made it relatively prosperous. They are long gone. It is now one of the towns most at risk from Brexit, as Nissan - easily the biggest local employer - is crucially dependent on uninterrupted Europe-wide supply chains and on tariff-free access to EU markets. So yes, the overwhelming vote to leave had little to do with opposition to the EU itself, and was much more driven by a desire to stick it to a political establishment that had sold out the working classes while pandering to the profit first, people nowhere financialisation of the economy led by the City of London. Though of course the propagandists for Brexit blamed immigrants, not plutocrats. Like Trump supporters in the States, they have been doubly lied to: first by those who failed to invest in their futures, and then by those who sold them a false dream about how to fix it.

Very good article, Boris and his crew sold a pipe dream to the disaffected voters and have left them in the lurch. It's a mess on so many fronts. The U.S. work post-WW2 to get France and Germany to trade and break up Britain's Commonwealth-only trading habits supported Europe's recovery and development and lasted, in effect, for decades. But it seems the Conservative party has entirely lost sight of history and wants to revert to a Britain which can never be resurrected. The EU's regional policy supported these rust belt regions of the UK for a long time, but in my view London never really committed to the work.

And so the chickens are coming home to roost. Maybe my interest in politics and what is going on around the globe is too deeply ingrained so I assume everyone else is like that, but I am a bit puzzled just how many people never asked the questions they should have asked before voting leave: how long will it take to negotiate new trade deals (answer: 7+ years); where does the money come from that keeps our city running (answer: EU); where do we export to and import from (answer: EU); what do we do until we have a trade deal (answers on a postcard please), and so on. All of this has been taken for granted and now reality is kicking in and it looks as gray and dreary as the pictures in this article. Before the vote, I received a little brochure through my letterbox and I believe it was issued by David Cameron's conservatives or associates as it took a pro-EU stance and looked not like your usual hastily put together populist pamphlet to drum up support. Funny enough no one who I mentioned this to was aware of having received anything like it. Maybe people just threw it out straight away or after taking a look at page 1, but if more had received/read it the consequences of voting leave should have been clearer. It is not what people want to hear but: it's better to accept TM's deal than hope for a 2nd referendum or drag on negotiations hoping to get a little more out of them, as neither of the two is not going to happen.

Here in Hove the vote was overwhelimingly to Remain in the EU, which is heartening. That said, there should never have been a Referendum: as shown by many of those quoted in your cogent report from Sunderland, there is so often scant grasp of the issues - such as the man who simply thinks it would simply be a case of "getting out". The ramifications were not made in the least clear when people were given a Yes/No piece of paper upon which to make a mark. Meanwhile, the EU has made it clear that the other 27 states are not requited for Britain with withdraw, with a shrug, the "Article 50" which rashly set in motion the tangled gears of leaving. I have always thought that Britain would not leave. We could yet be part of next May's Election for European MPs.