"...with a 12-minute tribute to his father that seemed to emphasize the gaping differences between the elder President Bush and Mr. Trump, without ever naming the current Oval Office occupant."
I've read the transcript of the wonderful eulogy, but fail to see the intended emphasis on the gaping differences. Could someone let me know what specifically was emphasized?
Another thought today came to me watching the Houston service begin... from the Psalms -- very first one, very first verse:
Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
That "sitting in the seat of the scornful" resonates, doesn't it?
1
God Bless Jimmy Carter -- first row -- our only truly ethical living President. Now the only living military veteran of the lot of 'em. May he live long and enjoy good health.
Notice Dick Cheney -- second row -- not a word of GHWB's decades-long relationship with GHWB.
Notice not a word spoken of GHWB's role in putting USA at competitive disadvantage to mainland China in trade agreements penned when he was Director of U.S. Trade Liaison Office to Mainland China in the '70s -- reduction of tariffs, joint-venture system and pegged exchange rate for yuan w/yuan valuation pegged artificially low to US dollar. Corporate multi-nationals shipped manufacturing and manufacturing jobs off. China and corporatocracy profited best. No, GHWB did not do it in a vacuum but yes, he was the enabling point-man.
Today, we pay our respects to a man who did his best to serve. He never boasted of his accomplishments, his unflagging courtesy forged strong bonds across party lines, and of the errors he made, some grave, he tried to make amends later in life, as a decent person should.
It's a luxury of our now former democracy that we can take the measure of our democratically elected 41st president and rate him strong on many counts, middling on some, and a failure on others - because our current "president" scores a round zero on that scorecard measurement of a man, and of a leader. Perhaps that's why Trump has spent 83 million taxpayer dollars on golf during his presidency - it's the only time he will see a large number on the scorecards of his life.
Today, let us appreciate imperfect goodness, because the alternative - ushered into office in 2016 by those on the left who demanded perfection - is unconscionable.
Let's remember democracy today, in all its imperfections, and celebrate George H.W. Bush's life.
79
@common sense advocate
I really, really, really liked, appreciated and respect your comment. Your closing paragraphs pretty much mirrors my own feelings. Thank you for sharing your thoughts so eloquently.
4
@Marge Keller - thank you for your note! I also saw your response to @Frank - it demonstrated your class and compassion, and, I would add - our mutual appreciation for the democratic process that we need to return to. That's sorely needed and much appreciated, especially in these times.
5
All civilizations need myths; and we have our pile.
This occasion includes noting the Brave Warrior, the Philosopher King and the Noble Statesman and Leader. And the Greatness of the Nobility.
Mr. Bush had a pleasant personality that we all look for in friends and he seemed kind and this must explain all the positive eulogies today. That is not enough however to allow us to accept all of the trappings around the eulogies. As stated here by many, maybe the "saint" spoken of today at this funeral is the comparison with the current president.
Definitions of "myth" include "folk tale, folk story, legend, tale, story, fable, saga, mythos, lore, folklore, mythology, and 'ancient Greek myths'"
I could not take much of this when applied over the last few days to G. W. Bush. Instead, I watched about 5 videos on Youtube that outlines his sins. His mistress, his war crimes, occasional lies and baloney, and unable to accept the serious instances of stupidity. (when the USA shot down an air liner killing 100s, he said "The United States does not apologize regardless of the facts."). I could fill quite some space here regarding the videos I saw last night about the real G.W. Bush.
He was a mere mortal with many imperfections and these eulogies for famous people need to all be lightened up and become real. The failure to only speak positive of the passing of a famous person may seem healthy and virtuous but it continues myths that are harmful. Facing reality can only be progressive.
5
The former president whose life of service was honored today was George H W Bush, George W's (also a former president) father.
That you sought out sordid videos on You Tube rather than join the nation in mourning a man who devoted much of his life to public service is telling. You are entitled to voice your opinion, thanks to men like George H W Bush. Some see a glass half-full, while others see the same glass half-empty.
Your "definition" of "myth" is a bunch of synonyms, not a definition. Myth and legion, which have been part of human cultural history for millennia and have generally grown out of our need to understand our role in the world and believe in something greater than mere "reality," something to aspire toward. History—itself—is most likely more myth than reality. Believing "in" it doesn’t mean that we believe it. It doesn’t mean we think our heroes are without flaws. It means that we recognize that people are capable of doing great things and like to show our respect and admiration when they have done so. What was harmful in the the anecdotal eulogizing of the senior Bush? "Eulogy" means praising someone's memory, not telling all the truths of one’s life. It's from Greek: "eu" signifying "good" and "logos" meaning word."
There have always been people who prefer to seek out the flaws in others—but they don’t give eulogies. They stand around feeling superior.
6
@Gerithegreek518--It was a horrid display of emotion for an ordinary man. Your correction of my typo, G.H. W; was certainly trite as was most of your comment. You may need all of those myths, but most of us don't. There is much more to be discovered about the nature of the human mind than the myths you prefer. In particular, there is much more for us to understand about how the mind can transform itself from a mere reservoir of greed, hatred, and delusion into an instrument of wisdom and compassion. Starting by looking at reality and not myths will be a good start.
What has moved me to tears in this day of mourning. The young who served as the Honor Guard. I could feel their pride. In the young, our future lies.
I cried for all that is beautiful in America, all contained in our flag flying high above the gathered crowd. I did not cry for President Bush. He lived a long life. He served his country well. He did his best. No regrets.
I cried for the dignity and the respect that marked the day,. For eulogies of friendship and service remembered with fondness and humor. I looked at people of power, held once, held now taking stock, perhaps, of their own mortality. How have they served. What did they do? How have they served? What might they still do for us - for those of us who watch and wait. For the people. We are here.
For one day, we have been spared the vicious words, the politics of animosity, Nazi nationalists, another rally inciting the 'base.' We are spared the fringe left vilifying anything in their path and the endless posturing that is #MeToo.
For one day, we have been spared another scandal, another sordid tale, another killing, another breach of ethics, the loss of common decency replaced by ego driven hysteria -all sides let loose.
I think we all may be crying for something lost. But I believe that in those "points of light" they're there. Somewhere out there lies what is best and within us it lies best.
Goodbye Mr. President. Thank You for your courage and your grace.
8
As Americans, it is important for us to make the time to consider events like these. They are infrequent and time spent in reflection shouldn't be viewed as burdensome: to think about the ceremony and the degree of civility and all that surrounds these events once represented all that was best in our American way of life.
These occasions remain almost the only times many of us get to experience what has become a rare display of honor and respect anymore, and certainly the only times some ever will be able to experience it. They may be part of an era that is passing away.
5
It was a fitting funeral for a man whose life was devoted to public service, and while I was no fan of Mr. Bush's policies or politics, I liked the man who shaved his head in solidarity when a Secret Service agent's young son lost his hair from chemotherapy. I liked that man very much. May he rest in peace.
5
I hope and pray, that somehow President Trump’s heart might be softened after attending this event, seeing a man honored by all different types of people for being a kind, unselfish person who cares more about others’ well-being than himself.
Hopeful images that come to my mind are Ebenezer Scrooge seeing the ghost of Christmas future, where people celebrate his death, or the original cartoon where the Christmas Grinch’s heart grew four sizes and he became instantly super strong and loving.
I never thought I would see the day where former President George W. Bush would bring me to tears to the point where I wanted to give him a hug. Upon hearing his heartfelt and emotional eulogy of his dad, he did just that. My heart broke for the man and his family who lost their father. I am all too familiar with that lonely and painful chapter in one's life.
Deepest condolences to the Bush family.
16
You ask for balance, but your commentary is not at all balanced. First, no one has portrayed George H.W. Bush as a saint, but everyone has described him as a decent, honest, man. Whether one agrees with him or not on all the issues, this was a president who, however imperfect, and whatever mistakes he may have made along the way, was dignified, competent, compassionate and deserving of respect. He was at his core, a patriot. Second, to describe the recent outpouring of affection as a “spectacle” and make a comparison to Mussolini is not only inaccurate but offensive. It is a reflection of what is wrong with our political discourse today. I am not a Bush apologist or even a Republican, but I know bad taste when I see it.
6
@Marge Keller - your reply to @Frank demonstrates your class and compassion - and that's sorely needed and much appreciated, especially today.
3
In a way, it was a good thing that Trump was invited in a non-speaking role. He was forced to sit, watch, and listen to a real president being extolled. He was forced to sit in the front row and shut up while being rebuked, subtly, by people who have little or no respect for him. He was forced to mingle with other presidents who all regard him with contempt. Trump was forced to appear at a grand event where he was not the star but a tolerated interloper.
In a way, this humiliation of Donald Trump's ego is good therapy for us.
8
One of the most powerful moments, among many, was when President Bush's Houston minister said that if you were bemoaning the huge hole left in the world by this death... then fill it.
9
@martie heins
THAT was a moment to remember. No question.
2
Watching Trump and Obama strolling, side by side down the Capitol steps on the way to showing he and Michelle to their helicopter, laughing and smiling all the way one would hardly know they were mortal enemies. It’s nice how death brings everyone together. As distasteful as the thought is to many, today in the company of others actually makes Trump look presidential.
The seating of the former presidents today was wrong and disrespectful. Jimmy Carter should have been seated on the center aisle, then Rosalynn, then Bill Clinton, then Hillary, then Barack Obama, then Michelle, then Trump, then Melania.
Little has been said about Jimmy Carter in all of this, but whatever his failings as president, he did not actually cause as much harm as some of those who came after him.
And if we are going to talk about greatness—modesty, selflessness, dedication, service to our country and the world—from the time he served as commander of a U.S.Navy nuclear submarine, to the present day, when he still devotes himself to representing and advocating for the poor, the needy, the disenfranchised both here and abroad—the greatest person in the cathedral this day was Jimmy Carter.
16
@dutchiris, I'm sure protocol requires that the Presidents and spouses be seated in order of their service, from the aisle inward. It's been that way at every funeral I remember. (On the other hand, the Vice Presidents, except for VP Pence, seemed to be a free-for-all). I do agree that President Carter has gotten short shrift; his name has hardly been mentioned...I actually had to look up to see if he was attending. I agree that doesn't seem right.
10
@dutchiris Well said. President Carter is one of the most principled people ever to have held the nation’s highest office. He and George H W Bush deserve our gratitude as honorable stewards of our trust.
One noteworthy aspect of yesterday’s eulogies was the powerful sense of Bush the person and the impact of his love on those sharing their stories of him, with all of us. Love was a tangible presence.
1
@dutchiris Yes, but it's not his funeral, fortunately.
I can see it somewhere in the distance.
President Trump's State Funeral.
Now! Live-On-Pay-TV.
6
Since his death and today's honorable services to GHW Bush, gave the nation a temporary relief from the ugliness of a divided country and a divisive WH administration that fuels that conflict.
The first pictures of former presidents and first ladies, sitting in the front row to honor a member of their special club looked relaxed and comfortable; unfortunately a reminder of the ugliness quickly returned when trump joined his fellow presidents.
7
Trump was invited but wasn't welcome; protocol is to have the sitting president give a eulogy which the family clearly did not want. He only agreed to attend if no one picked on him. Narcissist that he is, I'm sure Trump will think that highlighting the positive qualities of Bush '41 were digs at him.
How did Trump interact with the foreign dignitaries who attended the funeral? How long can he stay off Twitter?
4
Will this endless bashing of the current President ever stop? This article describes H.W. as playing "speed golf" but takes a swipe at Trump as spending "considerable time" at the sport. Give me a break. This is petty and beneath the NY Times, which already has sunk to new lows of bias. Obama spent "considerable time" playing golf, too, yet was never derided in the press about it. Can't we just honor a President who has passed without the constant propaganda against the current incumbent?
@Antipater
Well, the Times was only quoting from a eulogy -- his son, Dubya, said, "Dad loved golf but played it fast so he could get on with other things." (I'm paraphrasing poorly.) The Times doesn't attribute the tidbit, but it was straight out of his son's mouth.
@Antipater Time is measurable. Truth is not a "swipe." Clearly, the bias is yours.
1
The press may not have derided Obama's golfing, but Trump certainly did. And he said that if he were president he wouldn’t be playing golf, but would, instead, be working. That kind of hypocrisy is what makes him an easy target. He's just getting back a tiny slice of all the insults he has flung at others. He brought this on himself and then whines via tweet about how badly he is treated. He is such a joke.
1
This is the America we all know and admire.
4
President Bush was an honorable person which is why he so deserved the honors he received today.
On another note, someone should teach the current occupant of the white house to place his had over his heart when the coffin with the American flag draped on it was in motion. I notice this a lot with him. So disrespectful.
8
An Article concerning George Bush and funeral turns in to another Trump bashing. At the least, that is disrespectful to President Bush.
“Mr. Trump reached over to first shake Mr. Obama’s hand and then Mrs. Obama’s. None of them looked happy about it.”
It’s a funeral, guys.
3
Couldn't you, just this one time, give the Trump comparisons a rest? This was a lovely service from beginning to end. It was about Pres. George H.W. Bush, not Donald Trump. Pres. Trump attended. Period. Couldn't you just have left it at that? I guess not. The Times' hatred for all things Trump knows no bounds. Sad.
2
@jlemen
You're incorrect jlemen. The NYT, along with many others, is upset and disappointed that we have chosen a man like Trump to be our President. He appears to have little to no regard for truth and the dignity of his office.
So it is hard for those who have come to expect our President to represent all Americans and to hvae to listen to a man who continues to speak only to a segment of the population, his "base," while ignoring the larger number of Americans who do not fall within that segment. He is, after all, President of all of the country, and it is about time that he acts like it.
11
@jlemen Newspapers chronicle the times in which we live. We live in a time when the POTUS stands markedly in contrast with all POTUSes who came before him. Future generations will rely upon the truthful accounts of all presidencies; that Trump's inspires such negativity is merely a reflection of his time in office.
@Peter News organizations do not have feelings any more than corporations do; both are made of people, but neither is a person. To say that Bush was beloved and Trump was greeted coldly do subjectively characterize the subject, but with descriptive analysis to support those characterizations. The NYT is neither upset nor disappointed; it is reporting on the events of the day.
3
Proud to be an American always, but especially today more than any other time in the last two years. Today we honored a man who knew how to be our President.
7
PM Mulroney got some wonderful zingers in without mentioning Trump but the comparison to HW was obvious.
Mulroney praised HW's ability to make US respected throughout the world and his ability to work with foreign leaders in very difficult times. Mulroney demonstrated how close the Canadian ties with the uS were and how important NAFTA that HW helped pass. Finally Mulroney emphasized the the clean air and water acts as a joint effort of the US and Canada. The comparison on all of this to Trump's behavior is shocking .
Very inspiring and memorable funeral except having to see Trump sit alongside true US leaders. I cannot imagine a state funeral for Trump. Sarah Sanders might give the only eulogy.
27
@LVG "Sarah Sanders might give the only eulogy." Yes, but she would be lying!
13
When Bush 41 was making his "Points of Light" trips, I was assigned to his advance team for a visit to a Cincinnati high school. I didn't have an assigned role, so, I melded into the media pool. Near the end of the event, a CNN cameraman handed me a cassette tape, and asked me to take it outside where a motorcycle courier would pick it up.
I did as he asked, and a few minutes later the courier arrived. "Is this all?" he asked. "I guess so," I replied, and he blasted off toward the airport. A few moments later, the media pack flooded out the same door, saw me and said, "Where's the courier?"
When I told them he had just left, they screamed at me that the courier was supposed to wait for all of their tapes, to get them to NY in time for the evening news.
This scrum was still going on when Bush came out the same door to his waiting limo. He stopped to ask an aide about the ruckus, and the aide pointed at me and whispered in his ear. He smiled at me, called me over and said, "That's all right. They were all shooting from my bad side anyway."
20
I've been trying all day to watch the Bush funeral to no avail. So then I have to watch it in mute mode. Then just turned it off. President Bush's funeral and his last moments of funerary dignity is being drowned out by Journalists, reporters, pundits, and broadcast Journalists all trying to outdo each other for attention and ratings spewing stupidities. "He was such a great man" over and over ugh..
yes he was a fine individual but he also had flaws and that's ok America!
Its all been a very sad "who said it best" contest. Oh how I yearn for the broadcast journalists of past who were respected and balanced where vanity was beneath them and politics was a private affair.
3
@Thomas That's why CSPAN is the only channel to watch for inaugurations and state funerals. You hear and see it all as if you are there in person. I found it by accident the day of Reagan's funeral and I've never bothered with the other channels ever since. Obama's inaugurations were delightful to see all day, and let's just say I left the TV tuned to HGTV in January 2017. I couldn't bear to watch that tragedy.....
6
@Thomas
MSNBC commentators went silent as the coffin drew up to the cathedral, and stayed silent until the funeral was over.
7
@Thomas Balance has NOTHING to do with reporting the news. News organizations that are balanced, reporting as much good and bad about two sides of everything, woefully neglect their duty to report on the events of the day. If one president was intelligent, warm, and witty and another was crass, aloof, and self-absorbed, the comparison presents the former more favorably than the latter, but accurately nonetheless. One cannot report equal positives if there are not equal positives to report and profess to be reporting the news.
1
Today as I was leaving my upscale apartment in Hollywood where my neighbors are mostly young millennials, I mentioned to a neighbor that she was obviously not a federal employee since they have the day off today - a national holiday named for President Bush 41. "Ugh," she responded. "He wasn't even a good president. And when did John McCain become a good man."
To say that I was flabbergasted would be an understatement. Whether he was a good president or not, Bush 43 risked all his entitlement when he enlisted in the military - no bone spurs, no deferments, no Coast Guard - He served! I'm a feminist, I failed the democratic socialist test because I'm too liberal, but even I can recognize that George H.W. Bush was a hero that risked his life for this country. He may have been mistaken, but he served.
Next to that kind of sacrifice that row of past presidents seems to me to pale in comparison.
6
@Susan Murphy I think you mean "41" for Bush Sr. 43 was Jr, who reportedly disappeared for a year while "serving" during the Vietnam War in the Alabama Air National guard as a pilot. He never went anywhere near a combat situation and got special treatment through his daddy's string-pulling influence.
5
@Stever65
Neither is a Senior or Junior. Niggling details, I know. But 41 was George H.W. Bush. His son, George W. Bush. HW was the elder, and Dubya, the younger; but they were not Senior and Junior. Sorry to be a stick in the mud.
Every eulogy and tribute spoken today is a complete repudiation of the current body of elected officials. It wasn't a calculated, hateful attack, but a soaring recounting of a true statesman. And in that recounting was the true American Way that hangs by a thread.
None of the upstanding qualities so beautifully chronicled in the National Cathedral today are visible; not in the Oval Office or on the Hill. They have been buried under a mudslide of bi-partisian bickering and vulgar tirades.
O Captain! My Captain!
6
I wondered what Trump was thinking when John Meacham referenced Bush’s big strong hands. It was impossible not to make comparisons between George H.W. Bush and Trump during this service. Every single complimentary word and good quality is something that could NOT be said about Trump! Quite astonishing. Forget policy differences - Trump’s lack of humanity was such a stark reality. It did not need to be said directly. So obvious.
Never a fan of either Bush, I did appreciate all the care, pomp and circumstance afforded H.W. today. How many men have devoted their entire adult life to serving their country? He deserved a terrific send-off.
Now, we go back to the harsh reality of our current President. Nothing will soften; nothing will improve. He’ll get worse and worse. The trajectory has gone steadily downwards so far. One wonders the depth to which we’ll sink.
14
Even as a progressive, this is the kind of writing that makes me understand why the right accuses the Post of having a liberal bias:
"playing “speed golf,” an accelerated version of the game to which Mr. Trump devotes many hours"
A dig like that would be at home on Slate, but shouldn't be in the Post.
2
@Spencer Lewis Are we not reading the "Times"?
6
@Spencer Lewis The truth hurts sometimes.
2
@Spencer Lewis FYI - You're on the NYTimes website, not the Post.
6
Stanton On Dying and Funerals:
I’ve been married now for 40 years, and almost immediately set about writing a will with my wife and opening up joint savings and checking accounts for the two of us. For the past 15 years or so, I’ve made it a practice to write January letters to my wife and kids revealing some essentials to them like where the gold doubloons are hidden on our estate.
My wife and I purchased cemetery plots for the two of us about ten years ago. This past summer we bought one for our dog. A few months ago I visited a local funeral home and left them a fat envelope with instructions on what’s to be done when my time comes.
No riderless horse for me with the boots placed backwards in the saddle. No bagpipes. No 21 gun salute. I’m leaving it optional with my wife whether she will engage Madonna or Beyonce to render a rousing version of “Don’t Cry For Me Argentina.”
Not content with that, I’ve even gone so far as write my obituary, in which I am favorably compared to Cary Grant, Willie Mays, Noam Chomsky and President Obama. I hope to read it many years from now on the front page of the Times, copies of which I have been reliably informed by my religious advisers are delivered each and every morning to the Pearly Gates.
As for “Don’t Cry For Me Argentina,” I’m not unalterably opposed to it.
I didn’t vote for President Bush, but I admired the thoughtful, principled and folksy way he handled the business of his life and the business of his passing.
10
The difference between how we speak of a president while in office and when they have passed is remarkable. "Read my lips. No new taxes" was a point of ridicule but is now mostly written as an example of political courage. Hindsight certainly allows a better evaluation, but I think it's possible we failed to give this particular issue a fair hearing in the first place.
Maybe politicians, journalists, and pundits should temper their remarks and ask, "How would I say this if this person were dead?". Not to change their opinion but to present it in a way that may be less divisive, possibly more accurate.
I think about what will be written about Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama, George W Bush, Nancy Pelosi, and Dick Cheney. The difference will be striking I'm sure.
2
Second to learning more about what a great man George H.W. Bush was, the contrast between the man eulogized and that poor man with the yellow hair in the front row aisle seat. WOW. He had to feel so very tiny, so insignificant, so out-classed. I'll bet that today was one of the worst personal days for our current president.
12
@NRS And, I believe that is at the core of why he behaves as he does. Insecurity. Fragility. Lack of class.
8
[[Mr. Trump, for his part, has been given credit this week for not doing or saying anything that might derail the funeral.]]
Translation: Having set the bar of expectations so low, Mr. Trump was able to avoid tripping over it and landing on his face.
10
Please, one and all, forgive me. Given the present state of the nation, I find it difficult to unambiguously go along with the sentimental tone of the day. Once upon a time I would have happily looked for the good in the man and his life, and confined my comments to positive statements. Now, however, we are confronted by the Trump Republicans and such spectacles as the histrionic Brett Kavanaugh who, more likely than not, sexually assaulted an underage young woman. Like many members of the Bush dynasty, Kavanaugh also was a Yale legacy admit. I cannot be unambiguously positive today because my thoughts of late have often turned to ethics and decency, and because I believe President George Bush's ethics and decency were conditional, predicated on whether or not abandoning them would be necessary or merely advantageous vis-à-vis acquiring the things he surely felt he was entitled to: vast wealth, power, and elected office. In that light, the deplorable Willie Horton campaign ad was not the exceptional campaign event that so many claim it was. It was, on the contrary, altogether consistent with the conditional ethics and decency that are, all too often, associated with the entitlements and prerogatives claimed by the rich and the powerful.
10
@Robert
How nice of you to take advantage of the Bush funeral to smear again an Innocent Man. Kavanaugh didn't attack anyone and there has been nothing brought forward to lead you to believe he has. The fact you persist in believing that, and feel it is ok to say here, just shows how out of touch you are with reality. How is it ethical to assault someone's character the way you just did? Here's is the only answer you can give. It isn't.
@GregP
Rich. A Trump supporter accusing somebody else of not being in touch with reality.
The pertinent aspect of the Kavanaugh hearing was Kavanaugh's sense of entitlement. As for whether or not Kavanaugh assaulted the young woman, I believe it looks as if he did, on a more likely than not basis. During the hearing Blasey was credible and Kavanaugh was not. Kavanaugh even lied. Among other things, Kavanaugh lied about his blackout drinking. The numbers are not on Kavanaugh's side. False accusations of sexual assault are very rare. Most victims of sexual assault never receive justice and most perpetrators are never brought to justice. The merest possibility that Kavanaugh might have assaulted an underage young woman should have instantly disqualified him. Republicans couldn't care less, so long as they got their judge. Just another example of conditional ethics.
GregP wrote:
"How nice of you to take advantage of the Bush funeral to smear again an Innocent Man. Kavanaugh didn't attack anyone and there has been nothing brought forward to lead you to believe he has. The fact you persist in believing that, and feel it is ok to say here, just shows how out of touch you are with reality …"
7
I applaud the people who made comments and resisted, whatever their views, using it as an opportunity to criticize Trump. I wish this paper had the same decency, for I heard nothing in George W's eulogy that was directed toward Trump. For one, f_____ day give it a beak-as the Bush family requested. They had the dignity that the McCain family did not.
You know there is a legal sitting President of the US and it was with the proper dignity he made his attendance at the funeral and his visit to the Bush family. They seem satisfied with how the President handled it-why can't you?
5
@Marshall
Did you see his posture at the service? Did you read his body language? Did you see how he didn't put his hand up to his heart as the casket of President Bush was being carried out? Did you notice how he didn't open his prayer book and read along with the congregation? Did you notice Melania's feet resting on the kneelers? Did you see his attitude? Did you realize he'd rather have been a thousand different places?
1
We are all not just mourning an ex-President. We are mourning the Presidency.
22
“Mr. Trump, for his part, has been given credit this week for not doing or saying anything that might derail the funeral.”
Really? We give Trump credit for being serious during a former president’s (or anyone’s) funeral?
This is how low we have sunk under Trump. To hope that he doesn’t say anything stupid or offensive at a most solemn moment.
The difference between 41 and 45 is way more than 4.
15
Farewell 41, putting aside a life well lived, and service to your country, you were loved, and will be missed.
This could have, should have been a teaching moment for the current president, what a shame.
Trump is on an island of his own design, look at his friends and associates, and imagine if possible, a national tribute to 45, what do you see.
3
Ironically, aside from the personal losses of his daughter and wife,the greatest burdens George Bush had to carry were the wreckage and carnage and everlasting scars left on this country by his son.
9
If a picture can speak a thousand words, then this photograph is screaming.
There you have in the first row the assembled honoured guests including former presidents, all with heads bowed and hands covering their hearts as a sign of respect, except for the current president, who is standing there as though it were a privilege for all to have him there in attendance.
No doubt he's probably miffed that he wasn't asked to speak, let alone share a pew with the Obamas and the Clintons -- and no doubt a tweet will soon follow. SAD.
6
I kept thinking as Iooked at the photograph of all those presidents and their wives, that actually their waves might easily have made better presidents...
3
I opposed many of President George H. W. Bush's policies and stances when he was President, but I never doubted his forthrightness or his dedication to our country. Today, having witnessed what subsequent Presidents have done and how they have behaved, I think people should be forgiven if they gild Bush 41's lily a bit. In comparison to his successors, and particularly to the current occupant of The White House, Mr. Bush WAS a saint -- in addition to being the best-qualified President the country had seen in a long time. Given our current hyper-partisan political situation, he may well be the last well-qualified President we ever see. Rest in peace, Mr. Bush, and thank you for your many years of dedicated service to our country.
13
The NY Times, CNN and MSNBC can't even let the most poignant moments pass without trying to jam in a vile Bush vs. Trump comparison. If you wonder where the disgust for the press comes from, you won't need to look too hard today. George Bush was a good man, vilified by the press and the left in his time, who deserves to rest in peace and grace. Trump mustered more class today than the press could manage.
6
@TL Yes, this is where Trump gets congratulated for reaching the bare minimum level of decorum. He apparently shows a great deal of class by not tweeting disparaging remarks about a man who just died. Such a low bar. Too bad he couldn't muster the same restraint when Sen. McCain died. Trump is a vile and immoral man. The recollections of GHWB's service to the country make it even more apparent how awful Trump is.
13
Mr. Trump has no class. New Yorkers have known that for a long time.
Ever go to the lobby of Trump Tower? Says it all. So does his adolescent name-calling if anyone he doesn't like. And they are many.
It's very little credit to our sitting president that at George H.W. Bush's funeral he sat where he was put.
9
@TL
Point taken.
But Trump was vile and disgusting on numerous occasions to many members of the Bush family, even HW himself recently. Sorry, your indignation rings false.
6
As so goes that last decent Republican, all that's left is the Cheney's,McConnell's and Trump's of the world.s
18
What a nightmare it must have been for the other presidents and their spouses to sit in the same row as Trump. I guess we should be grateful that he didn't lead the audience in shouts of "Lock her up."
21
I would greatly appreciate if the New York Times, and other news sources, would stop calling this "the era of Donald Trump" or "Donald Trump's America".
Sure, he is the sitting ... usually ... president.
That doesn't make this his era, nor his country.
23
@Karen Lee Right. Maybe the current Republican Party is Trumpism, but the majority of the country is not.
2
Re: Thousand points of light.
Good play, W!
I recall the NY Times publishing a cartoon back then that explained the thousand points of light as 200 American flags burning.
2
I did not expect this. While the eulogies were grander and more portentous during Reagan's encomiums, for HW Bush 41, there are more tears, in the center, in the middle, and around the edges as well.
That is perhaps the most telling thing of all.
24
... as Tariff Man takes notes on how to outdo it when his time comes.
6
The best thing I ever read about GHW Bush was written by Hitch who noted that people in DC overlooked his mistress Jennifer Fitzgerald, because they presumed Barbara was his mother. Bidda-bing!
1
When will Trump's tweets start?
1
@bob I'm with you. I fully expect that all will be lost on Trump...that is if he doesn't think all the tributes to Bush '41 were slights to him.
Why are audible advertisements playing in this comments section? Disrespectful and foolish, too - because most of us cannot listen to something out loud during the workday, so advertising targets will disappear.
4
Was this article about President Bush, or about Trump, who was mentioned numerous times? Obviously, this reporter has bias and just can't help themselves. I's really annoying when I wanted to read an article honoring a fallen President, and this "author" makes it all about hatred of Trump. Really unprofessional.
5
Look at the photo --- apparently it was too much effort for Daycare Donnie to put his hand on his heart like Dubya, Bill, Hillary and Barack Obama did as Bush Sr.'s coffin was walked in.
Cadet Bone Spurs' hands and heels never had much interest in patriotism.
Sad.
30
@Socrates hmmm ...... in the picture I saw neither did former President Carter and Rosalyn Carter.
@Socrates
Speaking of "bone spurs", you do know the left violently opposed the Vietnam War and widely disrespected the US troops.
1
@Saints Fan
Um, no Saints Fan. I am part of that LEFT and we didn't disrespect the troops. We were opposed to an insane military conflict in which we had no business; and wanted the soldiers HOME, not fighting in that war. We didn't disrespect them, we disrespected the philosophy of the useless effort we were making in a losing battle.
2
“He showed me what it means to be a president who serves with integrity, leads with courage and acts with love in his heart for the citizens of our country,”
While never being a fan of either Bush or their administrations, at least both men spoke with elegance and dignity and always portrayed their role as president with grace and honor.
At the end of the day, yet another U.S. President is being mourned and remembered. It's a job that carries enormous weight and responsibility. I could never do that job. I would never want that job. But I thank the late President Bush for his service and his willingness to take on the role of commander in chief.
In the past 229 years, only 45 individuals have been elected president. That accomplishment and achievement in and of itself is worthy of respect, at the very least, regardless of one's political views. I will alway have respect for the man, George Bush.
Rest in peace Mr. President.
26
@Marge Keller----- "regardless of ones political views?"
Wow, as though ones political views are not important. They determine everything you work for: equal opportunity, the re-distribution of wealth, giving all persons the same rights, upholding the constitution and improving it, medical care for all, preventing horrid disparities in wealth which ruins the lives of millions, the millions of americans who live pay-check to pay-check and have no access to decent medical care, the denial of climate change.....etc., and on and on. So careful with the casual statements about "ones political views." The are profound in this world.
2
@Frank
I am not implying that one's political views are not important. They are and should be. I'm just suggesting for a day or two to remember the man and the esteemed position he held and to put on hold the negative and gnarly comments until the deceased is laid to rest. No president was perfect, everyone of them made mistakes. Taking pot shots while one lays in repose is uncalled for, cheap and unnecessarily unwarranted, not to mention mean and callous to the family. Besides, history will record these evens in due time and in length. One thing for certain, there will not be a shortage of interpretation of any president's actions or decisions. Sincere apologies if I misspoke or offended anyone.
20
Bush’s varied service to his country was more outside of his unremarkable one term Presidency. And his character that was capable of compromise and intellect. His son and two-term Bush was a disaster for us on all counts. The outpouring of affection seems driven by our Trump trauma, nostalgia—which is always flawed memory.
14
George Bush Sr. was a model public servant in all the roles his career encompassed. He was a good man. A funeral like this brings out the best in the American political class. Putting party rivalries aside for the moment, all join in praise of an honorable former President.
11
George W. Bush invited the office of the President to attend his father's funeral, as he should have. Unfortunately, the guy that showed up is not a real president. he probably can[t stand the fact that he is not the center of attention. He will be when he dies and is buried and I bet you he can't wait. By the way, I don't think Trump (or Melania for that matter) even understands or can relate to anything they are commemorating about Bush's life. Maybe he'll he'll come out of this memorial a changed man and start doing good things during his presidency (whatever remains of it - very short I hope). Even though I did not support his politics, Bush was a good, honest man who served his country in many way. he believed in democracy and compromises. I appreciate him even more now that Trump is in the WH. Rest in peace, Bush senior.
32
It is indeed difficult to draw the line between respecting a leader for his/her public service but also reflecting wisely on his/her entire legacy. Doing the latter would require dispassionately looking at the good and the bad. If we do not do that, we are certain to rewrite history and not learn from it. Though Bush Snr. did many good things that touched thousands of lives, the wars for oil and interference with democratically elected governments in Latin America are just some of the tragedies he inflicted. He did not do that alone - granted - but he lead those efforts. Iraq lost thousands of civilians in the first Gulf War. The US destroyed Iraq's infrastructure. We had sanctions for decades further harming the public there. I could go on. Out of respect for democracy it would do us good to keep the whole legacy in mind.
20
Moving, poignant, tearful, humorous, fitting. Can we hope that President Bush’s last gift to our country is a day of reflection and renewal.
14
It conveys a lot when two of this country's most respected leaders to have passed this year make it clear in their last wishes that Trump either not attend at all, or if he does, to sit down and shut up.
51
@de'laine
Who was the other one? You mean Sen McCain I presume. Until he was struck with brain cancer most of the left despised him. When he became afflicted, and his thinking clearly was affected by his illness, his irrational actions were embraced by the same people who derided him. He went from being a personal hero to me to being a victim of brain cancer who I will give the benefit of the doubt to in attributing his last acts to his illness. Had he not been afflicted with that tumor, he surely would not have betrayed his country the way he did with that phony dossier nonsense.
The eulogy by George W Bush was one of the most touching i've ever heard. I still have tears in my eyes.
8
When Jr. began talking about his father's view of the office... integrity... compassion... all that, his tone took a bite and I couldn't help but think he was speaking directly to Trump.
I don't see that as Bush Jr. making it about Trump, but rather in the spirit of defending everything his father was about in the one venue Trump would be forced to sit and take it.
And I could have sworn I saw Trump slightly shaking his head with teeth clenched. I think he picked up on it too...
With the guy sitting right there, like a giant orange elephant... how can some of that not be about him.
24
I thought I saw President Trump shaking his head as well, but I watched the video twice to listen to GWB’s words and did not think they were pointed at anyone other than to eulogize his father and the hope for a kinder, gentler nation. That hope lives on.
1
@J I believe that President George W Bush intended to express his feelings for his father.
Not every single thing is about Donald Trump, I hope.
And if President Bush did mean to get a dig in at Trump, well, Trump isn't that perceptive. Scowling is his usual demeanor.
2
@J It's a sad point in our history-- perhaps George W was not referencing Trump at all when praising his father's qualities of integrity, compassion and service -- but the fact that these qualities are so diametrically opposed to Trump's cannot be ignored. If Trump merely had different policies from Bush Sr, it would not strike so many people this way. But it's the very character of the man that is fundamentally lacking.
2
GHWB understood, as all baseball players do, that to hit .300, you are still failing to hit safely 7 out of the 10 times you are at bat. As he was a baseball player at Yale, that is maybe the best metaphor for his life and ours. Life is a series of at bats, many of which are not successful. However, we can be measured by our successes as long as we persevere.
17
It's nice to know that 41 was loved and respected as a person. But as I remember him, he was just a Republican president, and that's never a good thing. (Although some are better than others).
13
A great philosopher once said. Always go to other people’s funerals otherwise they won’t go to yours.
7
@Steve Mason
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2015/09/27/funeral/
In a novel titled “The Youth of the Period” by J. F. Shaw Kennedy in 1876 from London:
'Old John Nobbs was one of those present. Going to funerals was quite a mania of his, and he attended every funeral he could for twelve miles round Ledbury.
“Confound it!” John would say, “if I don’t attend other people’s funerals they won’t come to mine.”'
3
@Socrates I always knew Yogi was an historian as well as a Hall of Famer!
A President who was a soldier statesman has passed. The current President attended the funeral along with other living former Presidents. The current President ordered a day of mourning and lowered the flag in respect. Sully, the dog, will now be sent to Walter Reed Army Center to help the wounded. It is a day of mourning and a day of respect. Let's just stay positive for one day at least!
6
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm so relieved Trump was not asked to speak. I cannot imagine what he would have said, but it would have been neither coherent nor worthy of the funeral service of a dignified former president, and it certainly wouldn't have brought comfort to anyone. Plus, the Bush family wouldn't have deserved to sit through Trump's appalling stream-of-consciousness form of selfishness as they mourn their father, grandfather, and great-grandfather today.
Whether you agreed with him or not, it cannot be denied that our 41st president was a man of dignity and character, who served our country honorably during World War II and used his post-presidential career to advocate on behalf of the vulnerable and those afflicted by some of the world's most devastating natural disasters. That speaks to a character and intentions that came from a place of moral goodness and no, critics waiting in the wings of the comments section, goodness is not to be confused with perfection. Goodness is trying to work on behalf of others, admitting when you are wrong, acting like a reasonable adult, and trying to get through life without being a monster of crass and uninhibited selfishness. That type of goodness is what leads to greatness, something our 45th president, petulant and out of place in the front row of the Washington National Cathedral, knows nothing about.
23
@Lindsay K I expect that if he had spoken, he would compare the crowd size between 41's and the expected 45's, and he would say, "there will never be a bigger presidential funeral than mine." We'll have to wait to find out.
1
Is all this attention to Bush simply a way to highlight the glaring shortcomings of the Republican presidents who followed him? Judged by what he did and supported, Bush was not a good man or a good president. Why all the pageant and hagiography?
2
@Max Farthington Maybe you were not alive during those times. Particularly when the Soviet Union ended, and thousands of nuclear missiles were up for grabs as it were, it was good we had someone with extensive foreign policy experience, who knew other world leaders well, and could lead the world safely during that time. Likewise, when Iraq invaded Kuwait, he had very strong relationships with allies all over the world, and could quickly create the greatest multinational force since WW2.
1
The lenses on those cameras of the funeral service are awful. Are they using surveillance cameras? 1950's technology?
1
Maybe your cable company is downsampling the feed. Watch over the air for the clearest picture. Or maybe it's just time to change the tubes in the DuMont.
1
@Lorem Ipsum
It looks like they are just out of focus. The stonework seems sharper in places.
Donald is getting a closeup view of something he will never have. No one can ever speak of his honor, integrity, service and sacrifice...or of his kindness and common decency...not without lying that is. As in life, so in death.
51
Oh, please. The Donald has sycophants enough, as we see, and children who owe him their lifestyles. Someone's sure to say nice things about him. Don Jr., for one, who's already holding his chin and narrowing his eyes like his father.
This family is angling for a dynasty without at the very least the Bushes' sense of noblesse oblige.
1
That was one of most touching words I've ever heard spoken, eulogy, or otherwise. A healing salve for this nation that everyone will be sure to walk away from with a more tender outlook on life.
3
All the speakers, in honoring President Bush for the good man and leader he was regardless of what you thought of his political leanings, is indicting our current President; unintentionally perhaps, but the mind can't help but reel in knowing Trump doesn't possess one of the many character traits that made President Bush such a good man.
8
Like them or not, both Bush Sr. and Jr., specially the Sr. were gentlemen. Jr.'s words reflect the true love for his father, who was a true public servant and a great father.
6
I was moved watching a smiling President Obama reach out his hand to a scowling Donald Trump. A smiling Michelle Obama immediately reached out her hand to the Trumps also.
That's how it's done, buddy. Nothing about any of your quirks is important enough to have your bad humor, insults and lack of manners be a visible problem today during a state formal for a former president.
43
Willy Horton and Clarence Thomas and Anita Hill.
Great legacy.
12
@polyticks
(1)a common criminal (2) a respected Supreme Court Justice (3) a respected Law Professor.
What's your point?
@Bob Swygert In what world is Clarence Thomas respected?
2
During the service we all received a gift: Trump didn't tweet.
14
@AT did you see him twitching his twitter fingers? He couldn't wait to get out of there.
Just for today, let us celebrate the life of former President Bush, focus on his long service to our country and leave the rest for another day.
8
Critiques of body language, that’s what we’re down to. I think we can just give up on the Don until we get see him in perp-walk mode. At such moments as these, he’s Cousin Eddie (see “Christmas Vacation”), our socially cringe-worthy dimwit relative.
6
It’s fitting Trump should sit their silently while Bush and his old cronies do all the talking the world needs to hear about who the real evil is.
2
Interesting hypocrisy. We are paying federal employees (I am one) to take the day off at a time when we are being told by the Trump staff that we are broke. Do we do this for every other former president? Why is the GOP playing this card at this time, right after an election in which they did very badly? Does anyone remember the reality of the Bush administration? I do. His son was the same. "Read my lips..." etc. This sentimental funeral display is very curious. The GOP must be desperate to portray a former President devoted to personal oil interests as a saint. The vast majority of Americans are not dumb. Trump is as obvious as the day is long. We don't care what DC wants us to do. Mitch McConnell assumes we are stupid, too. How many tax dollars are being lost today? I would ask that the few Americans who buy in to this sentimental fiction wake up. Facts matter. Fiction does not. BTW, where are the kids Trump kidnapped? I hope that these sentimental Americans also care about missing children taken and being held hostage by the same criminals. Why not cry over them and their families?
8
@MP Clark -- Agree. And, we can only surmise what is going on while the country stops. Let us hope and pray (thoughts and prayers) that Mr. Mueller and his staff are working 24/7 to get the goods on the GOP front man and save evidence to prosecute him. Who knows what vile tweets will emerge tonight and tomorrow?
1
Here's another question: Why do "we" still hail them as a Grand Old Party, the way "we" did - twice? Wipe your tears and then watch your language.
Let us stop this overwrought and dishonest characterizing of GHW Bush as a saint.
We can respect his accomplishments, such as they were, but the obscene historical revisionism that has been going on since his death is an unfortunate spectacle. While less extreme, it reminds me of extolling Mussolini for making the trains run on time. Even Bush's most noteworthy accomplishments would likely not have happened if the Democrats had not controlled Congress. Foley and Mitchell deserve at least as much credit as Bush.
He opposed a hike in the minimum wage. He vetoed the Civil Rights Act of 1990, Family and Medical Leave Act and the National Voter Registration Act. He was virulently anti-choice and kowtowed to the religious right, facilitating its growth in power and influence. He vetoed many appropriations bills because they would allow abortion counseling or support a woman's right to choose. He vetoed fetal tissue research, and many, many other progressive bills. He gave us Clarence Thomas, Lee Atwater, and the heinous Willie Horton ad.
I could go on and on. Let those who revered him have the opportunity to express their affection, but c'mon, let's have a little balance here and report the whole truth about this man who was far more than "imperfect" than Meacham's characterization. He did lasting damage to this country, and would have done far more had aisle-crossing Democrats not checked him and promoted the few true accomplishments (the ADA e.g.) for which he is credited.
78
@Elliott I think we're all remembering a time when it was okay to disagree and oppose a president while still being able to sleep at night, or not having to get up, run to the TV first thing in the morning and see what the president was doing.
History books have all the information you've mentioned here, but most people are just trying to not speak ill of the dead at this time, and to be civil, respectful, and honor the man's service to his country. Some of us are tired of worrying, arguing and defending the rule of law verbally. Whatever our political beliefs, we needed a break.
Today we mourn a president who served his country in many capacities, was a family man, and a dear friend to many.
13
@Elliott
Thomas' appointment alone has done tremendous damage.
7
@Elliott That sounds like a fair assessment. Let’s keep in mind though that he was a republican and so being anti choice and anti woman is part of that.
The Thomas appointment may be among the worst of all he ever did.
7
Beautiful touching service for a decent man who lived a life in service to his country. His son's George's eulogy was loving and moving.
Rest in peace Sir.
28
@La monkey miserable
Well Said.
1
I thought George Bush's eulogy of his father was perfect--humorous, touching, heartbreaking. It's clear this is a family where love was generously given, and gratefully received. To my mind, that's the best tribute a father could hope for.
66
The fact that President and Mrs. Obama and Mrs. Clinton were cold to President and Mrs. Trump says far more about them than it does the Trumps. The Obamas and Mrs. Clinton look petty and childish. Just smile and say hello. Be cordial. Be the bigger person. It looks better on camera. It won't be the last time this group is assembled.
10
Who was cold to whom?
8
@John maybe they weren't smiling because it was a funeral. Ever thought of that? Oh and because Trump is the opposite of HW.
9
@John Really? What I saw was both Obamas shaking hands with Tony & Carmela. And Bill Clinton was ready to go for it but Tony couldn't rise to the occasion. Mrs. Clinton obviously didn't want to made sick, and who could blame her?
34
My wife immediately noted that Donald Trump, upon taking his seat, leaned forward with his hands on his thighs, his back never touching the chair's back...and continued to hold this position through practically the entire service, ready to bolt the moment the ritual ended. This in contrast to the remaining living presidents seated to his left, who all sat back in their chairs, and who laughed heartily during the lighter moments while Donald did his best to muster a smile.
Trump did, finally...and briefly...sit back, with his arms crossed and held tightly over his chest. He's probably wishing he had set a later tee time.
72
@Glen
'seat, leaned forward with his hands on his thighs, his back never touching the chair's back...ready to bolt the moment the ritual ended'
My back hurts me all the time, i can barely lean forward without pain. This is how is sit all the time, if I seat back, the pain is unbearable.
Thanks for your understanding.
1
@Glen. So nice to know you have nothing better to do than interpret the body language of a person you don't know, and then cast aspersions. Sad.
@Caligyal
So nice to know there are those with nothing better to do than cruise Comments to find those not particularly complimentary of your presidential choice, and then cast aspersions.
"Mr. Trump, for his part, has been given credit this week for not doing or saying anything that might derail the funeral. Before the funeral began, Mr. Trump arrived and walked solemnly into the cathedral clutching the hand of Melania Trump, the first lady."
This is how low the bar has fallen. That the man-child President is able to not make a funeral about himself or his own grievances. Hurrah.
173
@Carlos
Wait until the end of the week. I'm sure he'll find something snarky to tweet about.
10
@Carlos
Wonderful comment. The fact that a president is given credit for NOT speaking speaks volumes about the man and just how mucked up this entire presidency really is.
3
Body language is everything. In the cathedral, trump is sitting there, bored, with his hands between his legs, slowly clapping away the seconds that are gone forever. Not singing to the hymn, trump and his wife makes a glaringly sad and embarrassing spectacle for national audience. When it comes the time, trump reverts to his famous pouty mouth and crossed arms posture that says it all - he wishes he was anywhere but there. R.I.P., Mr. George H.W. Bush, rest in peace.
72
@carlo1
Sadly, I noticed this too. R.I.P., President Bush.
5
Impossible to watch the State funeral of George H.W. Bush and not bear contrast to Trump. The differences are striking......”tell the truth and do not blame others”......dignity over pompous......stand aside as others shine.....bravery over bravado......gentleman, yet a leader, never lost his sense of humor, loyal, disciplined....
57
Listen hard, Mr. trump.
43
@Joanne Not likely. They didn't say his name and it took longer than 3 minutes.
3
RIP, Republican Party.
The last Republican President has passed.
What happened after George H. W. Bush left office in 1993 can only be described as radical, religious, right-wing, racist Russian-Republican overthrow of American democracy and American values....replaced by state-corporate-sponsored Grand Old Propaganda and a Grand One Percent welfare state that would make the Kremlin proud.
A little ironic that Bush Sr., who helped push over the already crumbling Soviet Union, had two sons - Dubya and Jeb - who actively helped turned the decent America of January 1993 America into a dysfunctional oligarchic state run by a Republican Party that comprehensively and repeatedly rejects democracy and the will of the American people.
RIP, Republican Party.
Welcome, Russian-Republican Radical Party.
109
@Socrates While I generally agree with and enjoy your posts, this one is unnecessary and crass.
2
@alabreabreal
Please explain what was crass about his post.
4
George H.W. Bush understood the true price of war. He understood that the costs of maintaining an integrated, rules-based world order were nothing compared to the costs of the alternative. Now we are at risk of squandering the carefully earned wealth of peace.
41
Yes, he understood the true price of war. And because Reagan had left our country broke, he hit up our allies to pay 80% of the cost of Bush War I.
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/splitting-check-when-allies-helped-pay-middle-east-war-n203756
2
This must be a terribly difficult day in the life of President Trump --
having to sit there and listen to another President deservedly be praised.
153
@A. Stanton - you are absolutely right, as usual! But I really don't care that it's difficult for president Trump, do u?
22
@A. Stanton
"President Trump --
having to sit there and listen to another President deservedly be praised."
Did you all notice how often the Thousand Points of Light phrase was used? Individual One made fun of this only a few weeks ago. Honestly I could only listen to the service because I didn't want to see I.O. glowering, impatient, petulant. uncomprehending, hunched with his Mussolini pout, waiting for it to be over. How much this man has missed in his life.
14
@Searcher - yes! That glowering, weak-lipped pout and tanning booth-goggle squint. An abomination.
10
Jon Meacham nailed it. George H.W. Bush was an imperfect man who made the Union more perfect.
134
"leave the world a better place than you found it."
34
As I watch the funeral, I can’t help but wonder whether Mr Trump is thinking, as he listens to the loving recollections of 41’s friends and colleagues, about 41’s service, kindness and courtly manner, what will be said of him when his time comes?
75
@Checker "... wonder whether Mr Trump is thinking, as he listens ..." You give Trump far too much credit. He is neither listening nor thinking. Both activities lie outside his capacity as a person.
22
watching him twitch and purse his mean little mouth, my thoughts were the "criminal in charge" was probably weighing which of his criminal family is next to be indicted and how long it will take for them to turn on him too.
13
not a thing favorable!!
President George H. W. Bush always looked like a mensch even though he didn't always act like one.
Today's a day to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Rest in Peace.
35
For many of us Pres. Bush set the “gold standard” for public service, Patriotism, humility, kindness, bravery and a life dedicated to “duty, honor, country”.
We may not see his likes again for a very long times. Sadly.
21
The camera panning on Trump when Mr Meacham said President Bush's first life code was "tell the truth" was priceless.
153
@common sense advocate But GHWB never told the truth about Iran Contra did he?
5
@Abbott Hall
What-about-ism.
Both-sides-ism.
False equivalence.
Conflating degree and kind are we?
No human being is 'perfect', whatever that means. There has never existed a human being who has never ever lied.
There is a very great difference between the occasional embarrassing Iran Contra 'circumlocution', and the 10 daily huge outright blatant lies about anything and everything.
9
@oldBassGuy - you're exactly right - and that conflation is how Trump ended up in the Oval.
2
Today America mourns - for true democracy.
56
I certainly hope the two living presidents who trump tweeted a photo of behind bars just recently are giving trump some hard looks.
57
@Nicole It was Trump behind bars looking out of his cell at those free former presidents. It's all a matter of perspective, as in Woody Guthrie's 'other side of the sign' verse in his song, "This Land is Your Land."
1
Now politicians of both parties are gathering to abase themselves in the shadow of a criminal in a prime example of Adrienne Rich's dictum that Nostalgia is amnesia turned around. Still, some of us remember a more accurate Bush legacy.
https://truthout.org/articles/i-will-not-speak-kindly-of-the-dead-bush-was-detestable/
11
@Al M Well said!
Trump was allowed to sit in the "real President" section but he wasn't allowed to speak. Everyone knows why.
101
I don't see the former vice-President Mr. Quayle's name in this article. If he is there, this is a very unfortunate oversight for the article. If he isn't there, it is either an unfortunate oversight or set of circumstances for Mr. Quayle.
2
He is there
2
@Rich Patrock Quayle is there, as much as this faint shadow of a man can be anywhere.
8
@Rich Patrock, he's there, sitting with the other Vice Presidents behind the Presidents. Mrs. Carter, whom the Times originally said would not attend, is there also.
2
"Which doesn't belong and why?" (in a thick Irish accent)
Some of my fellow NY'ers may remember this bit -- Bernard McGuirk used to do on the Imus In The Morning program -- and the answers were frequently quite funny.
The answer to that question today is NOT funny, in fact it is sad and disgraceful. Look at this -- four ex-presidents with honor, class, maturity ... alongside a man who lacks all such graces and much more. A stark contrast.
22
Please tell us who is speaking!
Listening to Brian Mulroney? See how great the Canadians are?
28
As I listen to Jon Meaham I still can’t believe that vile creature is sitting amongst the mourners. Everything Jon eloquently describes of George HW is the antithesis of that traitor.
75
What a brilliant heart warming speech by Historian Bush’s Biographer John Mitcham .Brings tears to my eyes such a worthy farewell for the last war hero President .
I am thankful that Donald J. trump decided not to deliver an eulogy, that is saying enough.
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@B.Sharp - Trump was purposely not asked by the Bush family to give a eulogy.
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@B.Sharp
My understanding is that it wasn't Trump's decision whether to deliver a eulogy; 41 and the Bush family never invited him. Thank heavens.
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@common sense advocate
That makes sense , President Bush being a generous man did not stop trump from attending. But Mrs. Barbara Bush made sure trump was not even invited to her funeral.
May their souls Rest in Peace.
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I'm sure I will take some criticism for the following, but didn't we fight a war to extract ourselves from British rule and the entire concept of kings and queens and a nobility class. All men ( and women) were equal according to our constitution. When our President was finished with their term of office, you were just a regular citizen. No man or Women was above the law. The funeral proceedings for our presidents have just a little top much pomp and circumstance.
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@jwgibbs - Yes we did, but that doesn't mean we threw respect out the window when we got rid of British rule. Sometimes you need to show respect for people who have served, and that's what this funeral is about: respect for a man who served the nation.
When JFK died, millions around the world took in the coverage of his funeral. A member of the British government or nobility, whose name I do not at the moment recall, said of the dignified funeral - organized by Mrs. Kennedy and based on Abraham Lincoln's - that Jackie "had given the American people something they had never before had: majesty." Sometimes it's nice to have majesty and grace and to show respect for those have led us at great personal cost, perhaps not always well but to the best of their ability. Particularly given who we've got in office now, I don't as a citizen object to a little majesty when sending off a former president. It shows the country, and the world, that America can still show respect and honor to its citizens and public servants. We aren't a nation of selfish loudmouths. We're a nation built on respect and honor. If that's too much pomp and circumstance for you, don't watch it, but it's a welcome break from the usual Trump sleaze and chaos that has become our new national norm.
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@Lindsay K
Not so much the NYT, but the radio and tv coverage, including the funeral, of GHW Bush and his term in office, has been mind-numbingly redundant. It might be a welcome break from the depressing Trump circus, but for several days now pundits and historians have been repeating the same things, ad nauseam. There is a limit to how much press and adoration we can heap on one person--and that limit has clearly been reached.
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@Lindsay K But JFK was murdered in the service of his country which is a bit different in this case, a man who lived to be 94 rather than 46. Then again, the American ruling class has always been Anglophilic and they love the pomp and circumstance so redolent of the Brits. The National Cathedral is an Anglican church.
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We are witnessing not only the funeral of a former president but also the last rites for the GOP. All of the lamentations and memories of George H W Bush's decency are a public admission that those are qualities no longer found in the republican party.
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@Lee
Agreed. Fox News was going nuts last night over the kind words
Pouring in about Bush because they made Trump look bad
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Chomsky is the premier truth telling intellectual of our time, and he has made the case rather clearly that GHW Bush could have been prosecuted as a war criminal, for at minimum his invasion of Panama and for his prosecution of his war in Iraq. I'm sure he was a nice guy, as the saying goes even a certain famous German loved his dogs.
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@CK When you start from such a flawed premise stated in your first phrase, any conclusion is possible - and erroneous.
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@CK Keep in mind that for Chomsky every American president, in fact every world leader outside what was the Soviet Empire, is a war criminal. In linguistics Chomsky is a seminal figure, in regards to history and politics anyone who praised Pol Pot ( which Chomsky did ) is far from "truth telling"
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@Horace - The case stands with or without Chomsky, the invasions of Panama and Iraq were either illegal war of aggression (Panama) under International Law, or prosecuted against the standards of the laws of war (Iraq).
Chomsky's good name is in any case unassailable. Whereas your post is rough bombast that assails the good name of an eminent poet of Ancient Rome.
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We are laying to rest a lot more than a great president. Passing away it seems is also our national civility, respect and compassion for one another, making this event all the more sad. Also gone is the Republican Party that G. H. W. Bush so well represented.
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@Emergence
Only "great" when compared to today's president.
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@Emergence
No, we're tougher--and kinder--than that. Don't give Trump, Bannon, Miller, Fox News, Breitbart, "Unite the Right" and all the rest more power than they really have.
They have *not* killed decency, civility, respect, and our compassion for one another. Most of us did not vote for and do not support Trump. Please don't be defeatist.
If you want to take an example from 41's life, he was shot down in WWI, but he didn't die (even though two comrades in arms did), and the cause for which he was fighting ultimately prevailed. And he lived on to serve. I didn't vote for him and don't agree with a lot of his policies, but I do respect that he was trying to uphold what he thought was best for the country. And he was civil, understood democracy and the press.
We owe it to all the people of all parties who have fought to protect decency, civility, and democracy--even if we didn't always agree with or vote for them--to continue to champion these cherished American values, not to fold in the face of a threat, grave and troubling as it may be.
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By inviting Trump in a non speaking role, President George H.W. Bush has, thru his grace and decency, shown the deference owed to the office and the firmness of his character. The behavior of Presidents does not weigh lightly on, nor does it go unnoticed by, the nation and the world.
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@rds I'm not so sure that W invited DJT to the funeral or T invited himself. Were he to speak, it wouldn't be about #41, and if in a ghost prepared appropriate speech everyone knows it would sound hollow and insincere. The family depoliticized the situation by not having any of the former presidents deliver a eulogy, so they avoided embarrassing T if they were invited to speak.
Witness the McCain & Aretha funerals when Clinton and Obama spoke eloquently. And we know they prepared their own speeches at funerals and otherwise.
2
Did anyone else notice that Pres. Obama did not shake hands with VP Quayle. Also he seemed to be pointing at him while talking to him.
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@Charles - Ooooh my god! Quick take it to Twitter!
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Watching crowds with iPhones deployed taking video of Bush's hearse passing by is somehow depressing. Political funerals become events - instead of a chance to reflect upon the contributions to society of a public servant, it becomes an opportunity to capture souvenirs.
Of course, the digital revolution is not to blame. In 1968, as Bobby Kennedy's funeral train rolled through the countryside, among the African-Americans along the tracks with tears in their eyes were others snapping photos with Kodak Instamatic cameras. At least I didn't see anyone grabbing a selfie with Bush's casket, though it would be safe to assume someone did.
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A very sad day indeed. Seeing three of our past real Presidents, and the Dotard Trump, is quite a sight. All, with the noted exception of Trump (who seems to be bothered with having to respect anyone but himself) clearly comprehend the significance of this event.
My heart goes out to the entire Bush family and friends for their loss. It is such a shame that The Donald was invited and accepted against his addled judgment. He does not deserve to be there.
Trump has three faces: angry, distracted and bored. He is wearing all of them today - no empathy or compassion.
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Tired of all the glowing tributes. I want to see Times articles on Operation Condor, Iran-Contra, Operation Just Cause, and the attack of civilian infrastructure in Desert Storm. It seems like liberal and conservatives are united in their respect for this terrible man. At least so far, Trump has done nothing comparable to the crimes of George H.W. Bush.
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@JohnP ... Would all the critics give it a rest! I didn't vote for either of the Bushes for all the obvious reasons. But we live in a democracy, and the majority of the electorate voted for President Reagan/VP Bush in 1980 and 1984, President Bush in 1988, and President Bush in 2004 (not a majority in 2000). Congress had oversight over all proposals ... the Armed Services, Intelligence, and Foreign Affairs Committees had plenty of information and plenty of clout. So if you want to blame everyone for everything but Iran Contra, there is plenty of blame to go around. I'd remind everyone too that the generation that grew up during the Depression and served in WWII had a completely different world view ... perhaps if we'd lived their lives we would have too. Finally, if you don't like it, run for office. You'll see that it's easy to criticize ... hard to do.
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@JohnP I voted for the man twice, I’ll never vote R again. He was a war horse, an oil man. Do you drive a car, use fossil fuels for your comfort? This country runs on oil, with that comes war, greed, environmental destruction and sloth. If you think Trump is a better man than HW than I pity your soul.
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@No Trace It is indeed difficult to draw the line between respecting a leader for his/her public service but also reflecting wisely on his entire legacy. Doing the latter would require dispassionately looking at the good and the bad. If we do not do that, we are certain to rewrite history and not learn from it.
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For the man who railed against the '64 Civil Right Act as punishing the "86%", it is worth reminiscing two facts not otherwise serenaded: 1) Regan and the reactionary demagogue bloc called him "wimp;" and 2) he complained of the "vision thing;" his inability to understand big issues in a global context. Consequently, he joins other leaders who did not recognize the "elephant curve" and other factors that have led USA to fascist populism.
3
Nobody wants Trump at their funeral. Well, would you?
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I can only imagine what trump was thinking standing beside Mr Bush’s coffin. What will they say about me? And what will I be remembered for??????
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@James I suggest that, when the time comes, we remember Trump in 280 characters, no more, no less. Exactly fitting for a man of his moral substance.
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@GNol - agreed! But how many of those characters will be letters - !@!!
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What an incredible gathering of government figures! I do hope the cameras skip the extreme close-ups of the family during the service. They are entitled to some privacy as they grieve.
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@Bettye Underwood They are in the National Cathedral, for godsakes, not at home. They are in public, they know they are in public, and several Bushes will address millions via TV cameras as they eulogize their father/grandfather. I hardly think they expect "privacy."
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@mls, Note that I said "extreme close-ups." I wouldn't expect them not to be shown on camera at all.
1