China employs espionage to battle American competitors. Ms Weng apparently worked for or cooperated with Chinese government, she might not had chance to refuse. President Xi policy to make China self reliable producer, which is not bad thing to head to. Methods explored by Chinese are bad. Technology theft damages American economy and puts companies in scrutinized position. Line productions are in China, moving them cost hell of lot of money, Chinese places regulations where is win only for themself.
1
Apart from all the tough guy talk and threats we will hear on both sides, we need to understand that Trump is damaging the economy, crashing the stock market, picking pointless fights,
and launching attacks on an Iran that poses no threat to the US-- whatsover! Donald is simply operating at the behest of his controllers. Expect US execs and politicians in China and its minions to be arrested on bogus charges....
2
This is a new form of warfare. In this global economy the United States occupies a privileged position. We the power to inflict severe economic damage other countries, In some cases this can be as a brutal as the war in Yemen; for example, causing starvation.
This is as immoral as physical war; and we should be as hesitant to do it as we are to physically attack another nation. To do it casually at the whim of a president is very wrong. Congress alone must control the use of this weapon.
1
American participation in the Yemen War did not begin with Trump but with Obama. Democrats supported it then. Now they don’t because they don’t like Trump. That’s the only difference. Trump is doing nothing “casually.”
Isn't Trump brilliant at changing the news cycle? From his gut to your amygdala, his most recent incredible action wipes out all memory of his earlier ones, which were otherwise occupying all your brain space. So it is with this one, to be wiped out from the public's mind by tomorrow's stunt.
The obsession with Iran is a malignant cancer. The neocons in the Senate and the Israel lobby empower Trump to be his worst and react in ways that only Trump will. The Trump-Saudi-Israel axis is dangerous. That unholy alliance must be unwound soon for the sake of the world.
8
Remarkable how both the American legal system leaks information and the total lack of patience by the American press.
Oh, the arrest is newsworthy.... But the American judicial system is absolutely not the envy of the world....
Iran Santi toons? Right, do as I say, not as I do.
3
If Senator Sasse is correct that the issue why the U.S. is seeking to extradite Meng Wangzhou is that her company Huawei continues to trade with Iran Canada should refuse to honor the extradition. Security Council Resolution 2231 authorized the JCPOA and the snapback of associated sanctions, if Iran violates the agreement and takes steps to develop nuclear weapons. China, Russia, France, the UK, the EU and many other countries continue to honor Resolution 2231 because verifiable evidence shows that Iran continues to be in compliance with the terms of the JCPOA. The U.S. sanctions against Iran imposed by the Trump administration do not have the authorization of the Security Council and they do not have the consent of Congress.
U.S. withdrawal from JCPOA and the imposition of unilateral sanctions do nothing to reduce non-nuclear threats posed by Iran. Non-nuclear threats such as Iran's support for groups that the U.S. sees as threats to regional stability call for multilateral action involving the EU and other powers with an interest in the region. A foundation for effective multilateral action for such problems can be the JCPOA.
3
@Vid Beldavs If you read the article, you would see that it pertains to allegations that Huawei violated its licensing agreement by which it agreed not to export the US technology to Iran. Your entire comment is irrelevant.
2
I wonder if Huawei is responsible for building the devices that Chinese diplomats used to attack US diplomats in Guangzhou and Havana. All I know is that the arrest of the Huawei CFO is the sort of action that Beijing will notice and will go a long way in making clear to China that the US will not be pushed around. We should continue to use our global economic clout to keep reminding that they will never be a superpower. To hell with the stock market, its now or never.
5
Well, maybe China should kick Apple, Starbucks and other companies out as a "security measure".
3
We mean business.
2
I posted a comment in response to a story in Washington Post title " Trump's erratic and false claims roll the globe. Again " on Dec 5, 2018.
" Once again this week, world leaders, U.S. lawmakers and jittery investors have been reminded that Trump’s words cannot always be trusted ".
This is an understatement. It should read as, " Trump's words can rarely be trusted ". Just ask yourself, do you want to make a deal or sign a contract with Trump ? People seems to forget that no US bank makes any loans to Trump or his organization after five bankruptcies except Deusche Bank which was fined recently by Federal government for money laundering.
As Mueller's investigation pushes forward, Trump's tweet will be more erratic and seeks more distraction.
This is another distraction. I guess I posted the comment 24 hours too soon.
3
Oh Canada!
Trump will blink first because China can be a bigger bully, when necessary.
6
Maybe if she had kidnapped,
murdered and mutilated someone...
Oh then it wouldn’t be a story.
Once again another distraction.
5
Not sure why it is a surprise to so many people, per this article Huawei broke US laws by using US based technologies, to which they are paying royalties, and building and selling some products to Iran.
It is not like Trump personally called the Canada immigration office and asked them to hold the Huawei executive. We still have a system in this country which works, for the most part.
9
Huawei and other companies in China make cutting edge high tech items by with the help of stolen US technology. Then they use cheap labor, prison labor and government subsidies to export such items embedding in them ant sized micro chips to conduct espionage. How to handle this? I do not know what Trump is doing is right but just do not buy such items, keep tight control over their efforts to steal US tech secrets. After China came up with US capital and US market and then western European and Japanese markets and capital. They want to bite the hand that feeds them. Starve their mouths by not buying their items. China still believes in what Soviets used to say "we will sell capitalists rope with which we will hang them"
5
Using international arrest warrants and extradition treaties as stunts to play 'hard ball" in trade negotiations or to try and enforce sanctions will de-legitimize these tools for use in proper law enforcement and further reduce the US' credibility in the eyes of our allies and the rest of the world.
6
Having walked away from an accord he likely never read, this obsession with Iran is driven by Israel and it's supporters in the US including from within the "advisors" from within the presidrnt's family. What they really want is a US/Iran war. Whatever Netanyahu wants, he gets.
7
@Sterno
It wasn't an accord, it was a Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action. What is that you ask? Its what you sign when you know you can't get Congress to agree to what you are signing. That's the bottom line with regards to the JCPoA. If Obama had negotiated a actual Treaty and had it ratified by Congress guess what we would still be in today?
5
So now we’re taking hostages? We’re jailing foreign nationals in a third country for possible breach of contract? That wasn’t legal when we did it to alleged terrorists.
My previously high esteem for Canadian good sense has taken a serious hit. What the heck were they thinking!
This whole thing is stupid to the fourth power.
8
This is akin to China arresting one of the Trump kids while travelling someplace in the Sinosphere.
It's not a shot across the bow. It's an outright declaration of war.
5
This is horrifying. Looks almost like a "surgical" attack on China in the tech sector. This will open up Pandora's box on using more civilians as "collateral damage". Really sad.
6
Really? The US can arrest foreigners who allegedly break trade agreements?
China, please come here and arrest Donald Trump.
6
Good for Canada!! Chinese crooks think of Canada as a safe heaven, and have already displaced Canadians in whole cities, such as Vancouver and Markham. There was a recent expose in the Globe and Mail about the extent that Huawei and other CCP linked Chinese companies are now dominating Canadian research institutions in order to syphon G5 research, among others. They are using Canada as a gateway to the US.
5
I’m am not versed on the extradition treaties signed between Canada and the US. It seems an ill advised move to be involved in a politically game with two of the worlds superpowers.
As a canadian I don’t feel it was a smart or diplomatic move to make. Especially with the incredible amounts of Chinese capital invested in our country. We aren’t given the details but I suspect that either higherups we’re no informed when the CFO was taken into custody or else’s there was little choice.
Hope this is resolved before this escaltates into citizens becoming pawns in this silly game.
5
@Philip Morson
This appears to be a very thorny problem involving electronic spyware (back doors) in commercial telephone equipment. It's the 'Five Eyes' vs. the Chinese. Whoever gets their equipment installed around the world gets access to local phone systems.
My personal prediction is that Ms. Wanzhou will be a 'catch and release subject', which means her arrest is only symbolic and intended to send a message to the Chinese. If so, it's one way to identify a spy war. Even though laws may have been broken, nobody wants to expose their methods to the general public by way of a public court case. We're seeing the same thing right now in the Jamal Khashoggi case, where the spy agencies of the world seem to have evidence of his murder, but nobody wants to go on the record.
3
Playing hardball w/China is appropriate based on their business practices since their doors opened in the early 70’s. The list of “bad behavior” is long … piping not made to specifications, forged knockoffs from blue-jeans to handbags to motorcycles to watches. Lead paint in children’s toys, inappropriate glue used in wood flooring, materials used in sheetrock that allowed mold to grow, automotive tires, etc, etc.
Add to these is the devaluing their currency that has an impact to world economy.
Hardball is appropriate.
4
Not sure why Canada is involved with this. (I thought they stopped being lackeys for the US decades ago with respect to this sort of thing, but evidently that may not be true.)
1
Another of those ill-timed move, courtesy of Trump's geniality.
His lack of sense of diplomacy and strategic approach to international relationships make any problem more complex.
Even worse is his reluctance to understand that he works for this country, not for his building business.
1
I very much doubt China will retaliate by arresting US business people. The Chinese value their American business relationships. They would not be so self-destructive. That would be a gift to the American action and its motive.
No, they'll more likely do something quite different. Undermining US sanctions, US control of international payments, and the dollar as sole reserve currency are all actions already underway, to which they could put more resources and pay a higher price with this incentive and/or excuse for things they'd like anyway.
China is more likely to react to do what it wants than to do things self destructive. They are not led by Trump.
2
The move by Canada is horrifying and unjustifiable. With no rights nor sufficient evidence turning their suspicious into 'prosecution' on pure assumption is unacceptable. If this is allowed on Meng arrest, they can fall prey on just any individual as they please. Speaking about surveillance are these two nation not guilty of any form of spy activities? If they dislike China nation and people, please just allow all of them to go back where they were from and cut line. All Chinese national would be happy to return to where they are from or choose another more welcoming society for them not be living in fear and branded criminal. Canada and US is the last place I will visit or rather not even a place I will visit given no other option.
2
This is clearly a Trumpian tactic of making an initial offensive move, to give some contrived reason to then urgently negotiate over. It is a transparent ploy and kindergarten-level negotiating skills, premised on bullying the other side. And Trump has not sealed a single deal for our nation with his bullying on behalf of America, but has only torn up and ravaged our international relationships, without any substitute or real consideration. Shameful, but moreover, extremely ineffective and damaging for our nation.
3
With the highest incarceration rate in the world, does the USA have space to imprison Ms. Meng, or are we counting on Canada, whose incarceration rate is 1/6th of ours?
Sorry, but this seems like a draconian and counterproductive step for our country to take. We want to see ourselves as the land of freedom and an example to the rest of the world, and yet our actions so often leave me feeling ashamed.
3
Very sorry the USA administration dragged Canada into this after all the nasty things they have said about our PM and govt. officials.
6
Explain Please: How does Canada (or US) arrest Chinese national and officer of Chinese company for violating US sanction by doing business with Iran? If China declared sanctions on Canada and US did business with Canada, can China arrest US executive if they go to Hong Kong or any cooperating country?
7
The fact that Canada went along suggests this is something more than a Trump publicity stunt. But it still seems like a very bad move. This young woman will have to be guiltier than Scooter Libby for this to go down well.
2
This is long overdue. It's time the US stop China from stealing their way into being a global world power.
1
As opposed to bullying their way to the top like the US?
3
The unbridled xenophobia in our trade policy and foreign policy will lead to our eventual demise. This just creates more distrust in travel and business for the entirety of the world. Two aspects of modern society that help keep peace.
3
I don't support many of the moves that Trump has made since becoming President, but seeing how Xi n Co treated Barrack Obama when he tried to meet with Xi during Obama's presidency and set some firm ground rules, it makes me think that the only thing the Chinese leadership respects is a willingness to confront them head on.
3
When the US government arrests someone you can’t keep the reason a secret unless there is some type of real military security interest involved. If we had her arrested for any other reason than this, someone in the press needs to sue and pry open the reason behind this arrest. If the person arrested is requesting that the reason be secret all the more reason for everyone to know what the truth is.
2
Three things about this crossed my mind:
1. Inter-agency CanAm cooperation operates regardless of who is in power. Possibly.
2. Prime Minister Trudeau wants the steel tariffs lifted. My personal favourite.
3. She shoulda booked a direct flight. Definately.
5
The arrest might well "escalate tensions" but if Meng Wanzhou is guilty of crimes and is convicted perhaps that could help resolve tensions--would it help decrease "tensions" if the US looked the other way and pretended bad behavior is not happening. Eventually there would be no tension at all, because the US would become completely slack. Would that be a good thing? The issue is, how are tensions managed?
1
As I always warn my Assistant Controller. It is always/only the accountants who go to jail.
Another wimpy passive-aggressive move by Canada. Little wonder it's get treated like a red headed step child.
2
Mahesh, what details do you have to support your opinion? Please share.
1
Like in the move “Wagging the dog” and under pressure of impeachment, it is understandable Trump ordered the arrest to escalate an international crisis in order to deflate the political head wind. The question is what has Canada gained from this act and for what purpose they are willing to be complicit of a person most Canadian detest?
Like killing the journalist by the Saudi Court, there is no backing out of this incident from where tanking on Wall Street will lead to a looming recession where America will be made ugly again.
2
@Ted chyn, Trump expects: His Will will be done, he is the lord of the world and all humankind.
1
God bless heightened U.S. / Chinese tensions. Every frivolous distraction is welcome in times like these.
1
Now no US business executive is safe in China. Nor Canadian.
2
Questions:
1. What business is it of ours if a Chinese company trades with Iran?
2. What if China announces that trading with Taiwan is a violation of Chinese law, and arrests a host of Americans at Chinese airports (including Hong Kong) for doing so?
Comments:
1. We've put Canada in an awkward, perhaps even untenable position by having Ms. Meng arrested in Vancouver.
2. Our hubris is our worst quality. It sounds like George H.W. Bush was not a dazzling intellect and was dishonest about his role in Iran-Contra, but people rightly praised him for his courage in World War II and his unwillingness to rub the collapse of the Soviet Union in its face, which many members of Congress and American pundits probably did at the time.
We should apologize to both China and Canada, withdraw the extradition request, and hope China isn't as foolish as we've been in this episode. Our arrogance has once again put us at a disadvantage.
7
@Cyclist
If a Chinese company takes US technology and sells it to Iran in express violation of their legal commitment, then you bet it is our business.
4
@Cyclist
If China transferred technology they created with the express prohibition on that technology that we could not then transfer it to Taiwan and a United States firm went forward to transfer that technology to Taiwan in violation of those terms China would be justified to arrest the employee of that firm that was responsible for allowing the transfer to occur. What would be different is would that person get a fair trial in China? Not likely but they sure will here. If she is not guilty she will be cleared, if she is she will most likely be fined and then traded back to China for some concession.
2
Why is it so difficult for people to understand that the standard of living of most Americans depends on cheap labor in places like China? If all of these products were made here, wages would have to be comparable. Otherwise, the products would be unaffordable. This is capitalism. The only way to MAGA is to elevate the work force in terms of skills and education to produce high value products and services to sell to other rich countries. The alternative is a nation of serfs.
4
@Douglas Lowenthal
Your assertion is not supported by history. Every single technology which is currently made in China was developed here and can be made here. However, corporate profits will certainly take a beating, which they should. Market will adjust the price to meet demand.
1
This bizarre drama indicates just how little thought the Trump administration, and Trump personally, have put into the complexities of foreign and trade policy. Trump, in particular, is constantly tripping himself up. Trump touts his ability to make the stock market rise through his "stable genius" as a businessman, and then loses it all after he announces tariff "peace in our time" with China (not), and then turns around and thumps his chest as the "Tariff President." Now, the administration's Iran policy has tripped up its China policy with the arrest of Huawei CFO Meng over violating Iran sanctions, an event that occurred at the same time as Trump was meeting with President Xi in Buenos Aires. Once again, the market is plummeting. This president's ignorant, erratic and self-indulgent behavior is doing to the U.S. economy what he did to his casinos back in the 1990's. It's time for adults to step in and restore order, before things get even worse. Trump should be worrying about his legal position, which is precarious, and not rolling about the ship of state like a loose cannon.
2
The Chinese are as dirty as they come when it comes to industrial espionage + skirting sanctions. Only the Russians are worse on the sanctions front....and they lack the sophistication of the Chinese on the economic spying field.
Trump is many things...a moron, a menace, a general danger to the world. But he is absolutely right here in firing a shot across the bow of the most corrupt and nepotism-focused government in the world.
I am no fan of the growing power of China and it's non-democratic, non-human rights regime...and it's constant stealing of US tech and capabilities.
It is time those practices received a kick in the teeth. Actions like the trade war and this arrest are providing those kicks. But like any kick in the teeth...they are not without consequences to us, our economy, and our own security.
7
The Chinese government is full of sharks. Kick those teeth in and they’ll just grow back.
1
@Jack
Thank you for writing this. Well put and saves me from doing it.
5
@Jack
I agree 100%.
I'm willing to pay more for a product made here,rather than China, but many people might disagree. We're spoiled on our cheap junk China is so adept at supplying.
Over the past few decades, what we haven't given to China in terms of technology transfer, they have stolen valuable years of research in IP from nearly every major US company.
But even more so it was the stupidity and short sighted thinking of many US manufacturers to send over 2 million good paying manufacturing jobs to China that got us in to this mess. We've lost the know how and more importantly, supply chain, and those jobs will never come back.
It is about time we call China out on their transgressions, but it came about 20 years too late.
4
In the world stage, there is a word call "diplomatic". There always be a better way to solve issues. That is what elites at the highest level should do - think harder and do things smarter.
History taught us that China is nation that never surrounded to invasion, bully and power in the last two centuries. This rash move at international level is nothing but an adrenaline for China.
You don't show your teeth unless you can bite. If you bite, make sure the enemy never come back. China is too big for a bite.
4
I am extremely disappointed in Canadian government and in particular in Mr. Trudeau. Clearly, the unilateral US sanctions against any country cannot, and should not, be a basis for Canadian involvement in enforcing them, particularly when the US foreign policy is one of aggression and bullying.
I am surprised how quickly Mr. Trudeau has forgotten Mr. Trump's nasty remarks about Canada and him not too long ago. He needs to remember that Mr. Trump decisions are not only impulsive but void of any concern about anyone or any other country.
Mr. Trump's primary interest is, and has always been, self-promotion. As in the case of Saudi Arabia and MBS, he has no problem presenting his own interest as those of the US public. Given that record, Mr. Trudeau should have rejected the US request for arresting Ms. Meng simply as being contrary to the interest of Canada and Canadians.
In a US-China trade war, US agricultural products will be a major target for China. Chinese has been regarding Canada as one of their alternative sources for replacing US agricultural products. The arrest of Ms. Meng by Canada is sending a clear signal to Chinese that Canada may not be a neutral party in such a conflict and they should look somewhere else for their needs. This is obviously not in the interest of Canadian farmers nor the Canadian economy.
7
The spokesman for Canadian intelligence service made it clear what the government thinks about this company. Canada has shown every indication it only holds people if the action aligns with its policy. The US does not get special consideration. Other governments seem to share its opinion. This woman and her father are a front for Chinese espionage services. The only people up in arms are on Wall Street. My guess is the Iranian violations were flagrant.
My guess is she’ll be treated like an agent and released to China, never to return.
2
You as a Canadian may want to rethink your vote come next election. Canada may not be able to sustain the economy shock of diminished or no trade with China. Put that lady on a plane now and send her back to China before this ridiculous American engineered incident has massive fall outs.
@Eddie B. Perhaps you should read the article more carefully. It is a violation of their licensing agreement that is at the heart of this accusation and it aligns with Canadian interests.
1
This is a hostage taking, plain and simple.
At some point, Wanzhou Meng‘s employer will ransom her back, likely with the aid of the Chinese government.
Lessons have been learned, though, and their effects will be deep and far-reaching.
1
US technology has been licensed to Huawei, so Huawei must abide by US sanctions against Iran. This move, while heavy handed and political on the part of the US, seems very very consistent with the heavy handed and political moves that China does with its own markets and policies.
China is fundamentally different than our other trading partners in Canada, Australia, Mexico, Europe, etc. While I sometimes wish the US was softer with those other partners, China plays political and economic hardball with the US, and it is not unreasonable for the US to do the same with them.
5
@Will Hogan
I don't recall China arresting US executives. Regardless..
Our laws dictate the political and hardball that the US follows. So let's see which US laws are being enforced here.
This isn't a question of how China plays hardball. The question is, did the US follow our rule of law with this arrest.
3
@Will Hogan
When you say playing hardball with China, you mean like arresting a Chinese executive for unilateral U.S. sanctions against Iran?
What if China arrests the CEO of IBM? This wouldn't be right, would it?
This arrest of a Chinese executive, deputy Chairman of Huawei, is nothing more than dirty economic warfare from the U.S.
1
Meanwhile in Trumplandia, here's an example of a current headline:
"Jobless Claims Fell Last Week, Still No Signs of Tariff Strains"
Our nation is in deep, deep trouble.
1
One might have thought of the possibilities of embedded spyware in a Chinese tech giant whose founder is a former soldier of the Chinese Revolutionary Army, just like with Kaspersky Software, which was once used extensively by the U.S. government even though it was developed by a former member of the KGB.
3
What ,if, in retaliation , Chinese start to arrest US businessmen while visiting China under similar phony charges ? This bullying and madness about Trade tariffs by this insane administration needs to end now . Americans have suffered this President long enough now. The markets are down and the so called economic boom is no more. Enough of his lunacy.
5
What is phoney? It is known that if you chose to break US sanctions you will be prosecuted by the US. She's not the first one to learn that lesson.
5
We should not be allowing so many Chinese nationals into our country to begin with, none at all. Especially the ultra wealthy and corrupt ones, who are buying up expensive real estate like sticks of gum. Many of these people do not have the US in their best interest. Beware of some of the university students, as well as those who come here with Canadian passports. Carrying a Canadian passport alone does not necessarily make them Canadian.
We must start protecting our bottom line of IP.
They get it the old fashioned way, they steal it. Enough.
5
But we want those type of immigrants. As long as they invest their ill-gotten gains into our real estate. Markets in our big cities would be cooling off considerably of we only allowed clean money in.
ThanksDonald/GOP; markets headed straight down. China is one of the main buyers of the debt YOU are exploding. If China even slows buying US debt; recession. Thx. Ray Sipe
6
@Ray Sipe
I share your opinions of DJT, but just to set the record straight, China is NOT the primary buyer of all our debt;
The Social Security Trust fund is , by a long shot.
Our current total debt is ~ $21 Trillion - China owns about $1.1 Trillion, and Japan, the next highest foreign holder, about $1.05 trillion. Our own government owns about $15 Trillion:
https://www.thebalance.com/who-owns-the-u-s-national-debt-3306124
https://money.cnn.com/2016/05/10/news/economy/us-debt-ownership/index.html
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikepatton/2014/10/28/who-owns-the-most-u-s-debt/#6421511819c2
China owns less than 5% of our debt, so any moves they make will:
1) have little effect on us;
2) probably hurt them more than us, because they use that debt to keep the currency (RMB) low.
2
Tensions between US and China?
The last time something similar happened some poor hapless Canadians got arrested on bogus charges and spent two years in Chinese custody.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/01/world/canada/canadian-couple-china-detention.html
Well, say goodnight to Trump Tower Shanghai, Donald.
Trade wars will easily become hot wars. Trump destroys and walks away. He does to the American people what he did to his business partners. He managed to bankrupt a casino where the house always wins. That is all he knows, he is like a steamroller flattening everything in his way.
2
So there is a major fallacy in the second paragraph of this article - that we are trying to avoid a trade war with China. Trump's top adviser, Peter Navarro, has been openly advocating for a trade war for years. Sitting down with China's leaders the very same day the daughter of a well connected Chinese billionaire is arrested at the request of Washington, is a public slap in the face that almost guarantees bad feelings.
And if Trump really cared about a company breaking the sanctions against Iran he wouldn't have caved so quickly with ZTE.
6
If China were to impose economic sanctions, say on Israel or Taiwan, baring Chinese made components in American assembled goods, would the USA bend to China's wishes? Would the USA tolerate its CFO's being arrested and extradited to China? If the USA doesn't subject itself to the laws of other countries, why should other countries subjugate themselves to US laws?
Just because trump capriciously ends the US's part in the nuclear deal with Iran doesn't mean other countries should kowtow, especially China, to the almighty trump.
Then again, maybe trump wants to emulate China's strategy of holding family members captive to coerce other family members that are out of their reach. Indeed, trump emulates tyrants the world over, including several historical tyrants.
Irony that China, of all countries, would demand "the personal freedom of Ms. Meng.” Really? More like return her to Chinese domination.
Perhaps it is time to turn the tables on China and start ripping off some of their "cutting-edge products" and Chinese government paid for R&D. Indeed, now that we taught them to fish and American plutocrats recklessly gave them our fishing rods for their own short term profits, we want our fishing rods back so we can eat too.
5
What was the point of a 90 day truce? Was either of the parties going to change its position during that time? The stock exchanges fell for it alright. Now there’s a correction. This incident is a wake-up call. America has been asleep these past years while China has steadily crept up on us. It should now be clear. China is our greatest threat, not Russia. We have been fools led by fools.
3
What's next, is some one going to push this lady out of a window? This is madness and a path to world wide anarchy.
If it had been the son of the founder, the kid gloves would have come of quicker than a N.Y. minute.
1
When is the NYT going to realize that Russia is a house fly and China is a hornet?
4
This was not a coincidence. Arrest your opponents as you prepare to trade with them, but we are not a thug nation and this was an embarrassment to us.
1
“Americans are grateful that our Canadian partners have arrested the chief financial officer of a giant Chinese telecom company for breaking U.S. sanctions against Iran.”
So...When the CEO, CFO and Executives of Wall Street Financial Companies, Hedge Funds, Banks, Sub Prime Lenders and Insurance Companies literally almost destroy the World Economy causing a Global Recession through their Greed and acts of deception and lack of transparency...most of them are allowed to receive effectively Free Loans of money to pay large staff bonuses and keep them afloat as their actions literally ruined the lives and caused hardship to millions globally...and NOT A SINGLE person went to jail, lost their job or took a pay cut.
Yet America feels it has every right to detain/arrest the CFO of China's largest telecommunications company because they may have sold equipment with proprietary American equipment to a country the U.S has decided to hate, mainly because of some hostages taken during a revolution by the people 40 years ago.
I wonder what technology Huawei may have given the Iranians to use? Something that allows Iran to build or maintain its mobile Network?
We can't have that, can we?
Any American arrested for invading Iraq on a false pretext, completely destabilising the country for years to come?
Any sanctions applied on Pakistan when they knowingly housed Osama Bin Laden whilst accepting billions from the U.S as ally in the war on Terror?
Of course not.
But Huawei...
6
I guess the Trump family has no business dealings with China
4
It’s one thing to sanction a foreign company and it’s totally another thing to arrest an executive of a company such as Huawei with such importance to China. This is simply American arrogance. A number US executives in China will probably be arrested soon.
3
Amazing. Arrest a Chinese executive for financial crimes and ignore evidence of a Saudi's order to murder a U.S. resident. I wonder, who's lining whose pocket?
5
People on this board blame Trump for this arrest, but it seems like a long standing case case brought by FBI and CIA career officers who should be praised for their catch!
5
Trump has not been bragging lately about how much better he has been for the Stock Market than Obama. Why so quiet? Who will he blame? Of course it could not be his fault.
1
This is shocking, as I alway thought arresting someone without a charge is only practiced by a totalitarian state like China; this feels more like an abduction than an arrest. May be the so-called rule of law and human rights don’t apply to the Chinese no matter where they are, in China or out. Sad.
4
First of all: Forget about the truce from yesterday - the trade war is on!
Second - I am sure the US, and everyone really, should be concerned about the power of Huawei, the security risks and the intellectual property theft. But likewise everybody should be concerned about the enormous power and security risks of companies like Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon, Cisco and Oracle, just to name a few that that has information and technology that most of us cannot even imagine.
The big difference between Chinese and American companies have been that, in the eyes of other countries and the public, the US government have had a much higher trust factor than the Chinese. That trust factor are not stable at the moment and while it flutters, market will flutter and decisions will be made.
Is Trump going all-in with a bluff?
1
Can Ivanka be arrested by a Third Country for doing business with a rogue state like Saudi Arabia?
5
This definitely changes things.
1
The arrest of this woman has all the earmarks of an international crisis waiting to happen. We could not be in more danger of a military engagement with China—or a number of other countries—than we are with this flawed and ignorant president at the helm. God help us until we can vote him out.
1
Senator Ben Sasse has accused Meng Wanzhou of "breaking U.S. sanctions against Iran." Have any formal charges been filed? Is there an open indictment? Is there an active arrest warrant? If not, there was no justification for Canada to detain her on a flight transfer and she should be released immediately.
Canada is ill-served by falling into the trap of playing into President Trump's incoherent game of trade conflict.
4
Remember the TPP? That was the smart approach to counter Chinese hegemony. Kidnapping is the dumb way.
6
Shhhh! Don't speak logically. That will upset both the Republicans and the far-left Democrats who spoke out against TPP.
2
China and its hazardous affection for applied technologies is Exhibit A for why it is unwise to put engineers in charge of anything.
Next they will arrest an American exec.......
Tweet from Tariff Man this morning: Without the phony Russia Witch Hunt, and with all that we have accomplished in the last almost two years (Tax & Regulation Cuts, Judge’s, Military, Vets, etc.) my approval rating would be at 75% rather than the 50% just reported by Rasmussen. It’s called Presidential Harassment!
Sure, Mr. President! With (a) the markets tanking, (b) your lose-lose trade war with China, (c) your mafia strong-man tactics from your "Art of the Deal" days - shaking hands with the leader, while at the same time, arresting one of its key executives on phony charges - all these latest developments, among a million other things, will bankrupt this country, just like you bankrupted your companies. There's a good chance, of course, that you will escape unscathed, perhaps even wealthier, while you bring the rest of us to ruin.
5
No one should travel through any country with extradition treaty with USA if you or your company did things against USA! To be safe! http://www.wsfa.com/story/22665099/countries-with-no-extradition-treaty-with-us/
1
Does the US has jurisdiction over citizen of a foreign country that does not comply to a US Trade embargo?
1
Looks like that 90 day truce was just a deception. But who got snookered? Trump or Xi? Everyday the liberal press calls Trump liar, liar! Maybe he should approach world affairs with the innocence of a lamb in order to please his domestic critics. Xi would love that.
so USA is again playing to be world police, i think this has been clearly demonstrated to be idiotic, nothing good will come from this stupid unilateral behavior.
2
The U.S. has the upper hand over China in the economic battle. China needs the U.S. more than the U.S. of China.
U.S. consumers will pay slightly more for consumer products if tariffs are raised. The higher cost for these products will be received with nothing more than rumblings and complaints from consumers. This higher cost will be absorbed.
More expensive American products in China will have a more severe impact. From medical equipment to movies, these products will be less accessible by Chinese consumers. This is bad thing not only for American companies but for Chinese consumers also. Yes, China can get these products second hand and from other European countries, but European countries also depend on U.S. goods and services.
Let's give credit to President Trump, he is winning the argument against the Chinese's hostile actions against the U.S. His policies are having a positive economic impact by any measure. His communications methods and personality are not and should not be the only measure he is judged.
Every Americans should hope for President Trump's policies to succeed specially against the virulent position China has taken against the U.S. for the last twenty years.
Why aren't we all behind him?
1
@F1Driver "Why aren't we all behind him?"
That pesky 'rule of law' not a king's decree thing that we seem to be naively clinging to I guess.
@Marie Please tell me what laws has President Trump broken? An honest question...
1
Donald Trump is acting like a mafia boss and making rules and expect other people to obey or else. This is not going to bode well for us. Donald Trump should not be our leader and his advisers should be fired. There is no time to waste before more damage is done.
4
Why does anybody think that American "law" is the least bit relevant? The only thing American law is used for up here is as an unending source of bad precedents. The real question is going to be whether or not the so-called violation would be actionable under Canadian criminal law. And we don't extradite for things that aren't crimes in Canada. Nor -- and this is probably the more important point -- do we do so for matters more appropriately pursued in a civil court.
And, given recent American rudeness in general and especially given recent nastiness over the NAFTA-2 negotiations, I suspect that any Canadian court would be inclined to give the detainee the benefit of every possible doubt. Nor will the Trudeau government be inclined to do anything. Trump isn't just disliked in Canada -- he is an object of utter contempt and it's political smart to be seen as making his life as difficult as possible.
The bottom line is that we certainly don't owe the Trump administration any favours, Nor, when one stops to think about it, would it be a bad thing to have the Chinese owing us a few.
1
Self interested "Wiseguys" who like to skirt and bend the rules are a blot on our society.
Meng Wanzhou made a bad mistake, when she decided to take part in a "Wiseguy Battle" against Donald Trump, the most self-centered and vindictive wiseguy known to man.
Note well, that Canada "bent the knee" to Trump. His power in increasing. Forget not, that he has 53 of the Lords on his side.
2
@Peter Zenger; the knee won't have been bent until the person-in-question ends up in an American jails. Something which won't happen because if it does, then the Trudeau government is toast. Nobody in Canada will tolerate a government which is seen to be knuckling under to the oaf who is currently sleeping the in White House. And our system isn't like yours -- the Prime Minister can fired tomorrow, should Parliament decide to do so.
And just because the Canadian government followed the letter of the extradition treaty doesn't mean that it intends to honour its' spirit. No extradition hearing is a slam-dunk and -- given recent unpleasantness -- Canadian courts will be giving Ms. Meng the benefit of every possible doubt. Furthermore, the case made against her must be relevant to Canadian criminal law -- we don't extradite for offenses which are only illegal in the United States, nor do we do so for civil matters.
The fact of the matter is that nobody in Canada believes we owe the Trump administration a thing. Or that the American eagle doesn't deserve to have a tail-feather or two plucked. Canadian politicians are very aware of this. Which means that the next plane Ms Meng finds herself on will almost certainly be just another first-class commercial flight to Shanghai.
1
@curious
Your courts will do the right thing and that means she will be handed over to the United States. It was an International Arrest Warrant. You think Trump issued that warrant himself? We do have a Justice Department here in case you don't know and it is able to do things like this without a direct order from the President. Get over your hurt feelings our President speaks bluntly and your Prime Minister clearly doesn't like him so Trump responds in kind. Canadians aren't known for being able to dish it out but not take it are they?
1
"Huawei Executive’s Arrest May Stir Tensions Between U.S."
May it? I don't see how it could!
As someone who travels in China: China will stop at nothing to tap your phone.
Huawai was started by a former engineer in China’s People’s Liberation Army. It has a long history with the PRC military. More likely than not it is involved in PRC intelligence operations.
Now, if tapping your phone is criminal is debatable. No one was punished when the US tapped the private phone of Ms. Merkel , Chancellor of Germany .And former CIA Chief Hayden publicly stated that Russian hacking of the DNC was , quote "“I have to admit my definition of what the Russians did is, unfortunately, honorable state espionage"
Maybe he could serve as a witness for the defence of Ms Meng
2
This arrest of a Chinese executive who knowingly flaunted and violated US law and sanctions is more than appropriate and warranted.
Quite frankly I'm not concerned about the safety of Americans in China who are doing business with a communist dictatorship as it is comparable to a frog letting a scorpion jump on its back to cross a river.
US should start preparing for a hot war with China as China is certainly preparing for a war with the US. Despite the claim by the Chinese President for life Xi, that the islands in the SCS are being built for "peaceful purposes", we have witnessed fortified anti-air and anti-ship missiles batteries with military capable runways, built on those islands.
I'd implore the NYT to do a follow up of just how far China has come since the NYT's last article on China and it's peaceful island building. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/08/world/asia/south-china-seas-photos.html
Lets revisit some recent Chinese actions.
China is making very unsafe maneuvers around US ships in the SCS.
China publicly announced plans that a third aircraft carrier is under construction during the G8 summit.
The use of lasers by the Chinese military stationed in their base in Africa to blind and disorient US pilots.
China applies pressure on other nations and US companies to end their relationship with Taiwan or to have Taiwan renamed on maps.
Those are just a few actions of our largest trading partner.
As far as Ms. Wanzhou, lock her up.
4
This is a move one would expect from a government headed by Saddam Hussein or Idi Amin. Arresting this woman without notice is both stupid and brutal. Who else has ever been arrested for violating sanctions against anybody? Let alone for violating sanctions that are in place because the Idiot in Chief stupidly, precipitously, and unilaterally withdrew from an agreement (purely for political reasons) that every other signatory is still on board with.
1
Can't say I'm shocked that hundreds of readers have taken this opportunity to lambaste President Donald here, as if he personally instigated the detention of Ms. Meng, positing their own half-baked, ill-informed opinions of what is obviously a nuanced, multi-national case brewing against Huawei's business practices. Personally, when such stories break, I generally refrain from opining because a.) I am not an expert in international relations or finance, and b.) there is doubtless far more to the story than I am being told. To be quite honest, were one to substitute "Obama" for "Trump", many of the postings here would be indistinguishable from callers to Sean Hannity during the last administration.
4
While I have no problem with the US banning the sale of certain technology to Iran, particularly if Huawei signed a form saying that they would not do so, I don't see where we get off telling other countries where they can or cannot purchase oil from.
2
An arrest without charge is evidence of a police state. Hopefully this will get cleared up during her 'perp walk' when she is brought to the United States. That is, after all, the purpose of the 'perp walk': to demonstrate to the world that a person has charged and placed under the protection of the Court.
According to the article: "He [McLeod] said she was “sought for extradition by the United States” but did not give a reason for what prompted the arrest."
1
@W
Because she requested a publication ban.
1
@tbandc
As I said, an arrest without charge is evidence of a police state. Hopefully this will get cleared up during her 'perp walk' when she is brought to the United States.
I am certainly not a supporter of President Trump's bullying type of trade strategy and foreign policy - bullying, except when he works with Vladimir Putin and becomes a choir boy. However, when it comes to the issue of China and formulation of American policy, and Chinese policy towards the United States, it seems both nations' leadership could use reprimanding for puerile behavior. The problem is they are the world's two most powerful nations and economies, and the modern world thus lacks a parent.
1
Something is terribly wrong here!
We allow our allies to assasinate our residents with impunity. Saudi Arabia is a closed society. It’s citizens attacked us. It has no human rights. It’s a dictatorship. Iran is no picnic, but we had a treaty. Iran’s society is much more open than SA. China is expanding its economic muscle. So what? When was the last time China started a war?
1
What does the USA expect to accomplish with draconian sanctions being imposed on Iran? What is the strategic rationale for it? John Bolton was put out to pasture once, and should be sent back to stay.
3
Guess trump knows America is done with his charade, and the law is drawing closer, so expect lots of distractions like this over the next few weeks.
2
Disregarding all else, such as substantive matters, keeping strictly to the merits of jurisdiction and the bi-lateral extradition treaty between the United States and Canada, it appears to me that Meng is not subject to extradition and that her detention is unlawful. Her offense, if, indeed, there is one, falls outside of the schedule of offenses included in the treaty and enumerated as one through thirty.
3
Great. How many more years will I have to work because some US firm has influence with the Trump Administration?
And who among Trump's friends is profiting from all the market volatility?
2
Aimless "Trump Economics" is taking hold, following the beyond-stupid sugar-high tax cut to juice an already strong economy. This will be in all the business classes going forward as what not to do for an economy, but what some will do for a short-term con.
2
Maybe, trump is the right man to deal with China. Stranger things have happen.
2
I really hope that China comes up with some pretext to arrest a wealthy American working for a powerful corporation and holds them in custody for an extended period of time - say a week or so after Ms. Meng is released, which could be a matter of years of course. Meng's arrest is a Trumpian act of provocation that will backfire one way or another. I am angry that my own country is involved in this travesty, and hope a Canadian court rules that their are insufficient grounds to extradite Ms. Meng to the United States. If Trump believse the Chinese will just roll over, I fear he may have a surprise coming.
4
Huawei has long been deemed a hostile foreign actor, and is notorious for blatant intellectual property theft from American companies.
This is the right move; the tariff war is not.
3
This is huge. I would not want to be a US, Canadian, Or British executive in China right now. I can just see a Tit for Tat happening fairly soon if this matter does not go well for China.
I understand the long reach of our Justice system tied to the Dollar economy of the world but I see on the horizon the probability of a competing money system to the Dollar as various countries become totally tired of the US using its muscle because we control the Dollar worldwide. Remember when the British Pound was King? Perhaps different circumstances but it is no longer very relevant worldwide.
1
Good! I have seen China and even Germany cheat these sanctions. No matter who you are: if you break the law you should be arrested and tried.
3
Now China will arrest American Company Executives because their companies have business with Taiwan!
4
having trump as president is like having a mentally disabled adolescent in the house. you might find them smashing grandma's china in the morning and then be happy in the afternoon when he ties his shoes for the first time. maybe arresting this woman was the right thing to do? but did he have to go around smashing relationships with our friends and enemies alike beforehand?
So we licensed sensitive products to China and they do whatever with these products. How stupid can we be.
Then we are upset and arrest this woman. How stupid can we be yet again.
This is not diplomacy. It is this administration pulling diplomacy out of their fat trump behind.
Who in their right mind will ever trust the US on anything. We are running things here terribly, markets are nervous, countries are shocked and was this the win this country wanted?
We are exhausted from all of this crazy winning.
Our solution, vote in 2020! Our country is in peril. We just have to hope the damage is reversible. With every day that passes I grow skeptical,
God Save America!
2
To the extent this was done to enforce sanctions regimes, it can backfire badly.
Sanctions rely on cooperation. Those who are outraged and deeply, personally offended do not cooperate.
There are many ways that sanction can be undermined by a hostile state's actions, if they are motivated enough to pay the price. This provides such motivation.
It looks like a blunder.
2
This is interesting. It is weird. It is scary. Seems like Trump is determined to use mob-tactics on the global playground while he has no idea of the power of his enemies and the support of his friends. Let's hop, for the sake of humanity, that he is as smart as he think he is.
Huawei at $90 Billion is huge! But they broke U.S. law and that can't be tolerated! It's nice to see the law Trump a delicate trade negotiations. Additionally, they pose a security risk. I say bravo!
Xi will NOT let this affect his trade goals. But I'm to!d he respects Trump and his resolve. The President bringing Peter Navarro into the talks sends a signal to China the U.S. wil take a hard line. This is kind of strategy that Xi understands.
Also message to Tehran. Clever on Tuumps part.
2
...remember, it's Communist China - where citizens personal lives are examined by the government - where close to 800,000 to 2 million religious minorities, many of them Muslims, are locked up in internment camps - the Chinese government has started 'ranking' its citizens - your credit score can move up or down based on your behavior - it's an insidious country where the government has access to everyone, and every corporations personal information and data.
….and let's not forget 50-60 years ago, the Chinese went into Tibet and an estimated 400,000-1,200,000 Tibetans were murdered - some call it genocide.
4
@JMS
very correct, after Genocide and ethnic makeover of Tibet, now Chinese are doing the same thing with Uighirs. Amazing that NYtimes readership loves this evil regime, which openly steals US trade secrets, has destroyed US middle class in cahoot with Crony capitalists in US, and clearly hostile.
1
Trump, the gift that keeps on giving to our adverseries.
What a bad politically motivated move. I think now Trump and the cohort of clowns that surrounds him are going to bring us ever closer to conflict with China. I never thought in my lifetime I would see such idiocy from Americans. Canadians should release this woman immediately. If handed over to the US in Trump land, there is no telling where this folly may lead. The stopgap measure is to let her go home. Today's supposedly high crimes of Huawei will be tomorrows business as usual, once Trump is kicked out of office. Mr Muller had better deliver soon, for the good of this country and the world.
1
It's like the old game show "Who Do You Trust?"
- the Chinese government with its totalitarian political agenda seeping into the guts of worldwide connectivity and information flow - our collective personal and national information
OR
- our own incompetent administration, that pretends to be the US Government, which is infecting our affairs and capabilities on myriad levels
The fact that other Western democracies are wary of this company's reach into the most sensitive workings of our tech dependent societies says a lot.
I just wish our society had a normal person with more than a 4th grade intellect and vocabulary to take on this important issue.
In the race to high tech supremacy China is not too bright. They built their economy on fossil fuels of which they have very little. They also don't have the giant old companies who have bought out their government and insist on destroying all competition from new greener and renewable energy technology. So, they had no excuse. They could have built steadily on green energy and made investments that were sustainable. They would have grown in knowledge that the west didn't have and positioned themselves to dominate energy for hundreds of years. Instead they steal and copy, and they copy what is old and dirty and maintained here by political malfeasance.
In their internet tech they simply use it to brainwash. They will find that that leads to a very weak and childish population who are of little help in times when effort and diligence are necessary. This is what we are finding out here.
I am not worried about the economy of the wealthy. I know that when they suffer some minor inconvenience to their money they throw fits and punish the people but the people are getting used to their state of serfdom. Every new loss of freedom and dignity is met initially by a small grumbling, but they get used to it. It has been ongoing for the last 50 years. The people prefer the outcomes provided by their cruel masters to the results of their own decisions.
2
Remember who your friends are. Now, about those steel and aluminum tariffs...
2
The political elites in China have been hiding their money abroad for decades. There is nothing they fear more than being exposed. So far the rest of the world has allowed them to sell their false patriotism in China while they bought up condos in Vancouver, London and New York.
If their offshore accounts are in play- we can expect Xi Jinping Wang Qishan and their ilk to quickly fold in any trade negotiation regardless of the rhetoric they spew.
3
We shall see. This is not a typical oligarchy but a mutated dictatorship of the proletariat. The power structure is less dependent upon personal relationships. The good of the state can render individuals expendable.
I don't think it is wise to conclude that this extradition request is based on a violation of US sanctions on Iran. My reading of the Canada Extradition Act seems to indicate in Section 3.1.b. that extradition is only possible of the act under consideration is illegal in Canada and carries a significant punishment. US sanctions are not covered by Canadian law, unless they are based on something more fundamental breach of law that is in the Canadian Criminal Code.
4
The US has really become a International rogue government sanctioning anybody it wishes when it wishes. Starting seriously regretting voting for Trump who seemed to have the right positions on NAFTA but this harassment of China and a woman executive is totally uncalled for.
2
You can understand why "American" corporations fell in love with China–no unions, no benefits, no regulations, no labor unrest--just pure profit.
The Chinese communist party--actually fascists--is China’s board of directors, which makes Xi the most powerful CEO the world has ever known. “American” corporations--Apple et al.-- sold the American soul for pennies on the dollar.
7
Trump calls Trudeau a liar and imposes steel tariffs under the guise of national security but when the US needs some dirty work done Canada is a 'partner'. What a Gong Show.
4
Trump thinks that China is weaker than the U.S. and so if he intimidates them, they are going to fold. China is two generations from enduring the greatest privations in it’s history. It’s not going to be intimidated by that faux tough guy real estate con artist. China will settle the trade conflict with calm deliberation. Then they will just build another military base in the Southwest Pacific trade routes and watch Trump fume and make some excuse for doing nothing about it.
Trump is wrecking the work of three quarters of a century of thoughtful U.S. leaders by acting according to his gut.
146
@Casual Observer
China will settle the trade conflict with calm deliberation, and concessons to the United States that no other president would have won. As for their building another base in the Pacific trade route, they probably will. Why is that something you are cheer leading here? We will continue to conduct freedom of navigation exercises through the area and it will be the Chinese who are fuming when we do.
11
@Casual Observer
Please--"Trump is wrecking the work of three quarters of a century of thoughtful U.S. leaders by acting according to his gut." They've done nothing but turn American manufacturing into dust and turned our citizens into servants. Those "thoughtful U.S. leaders" belong in prison.
15
There is no rational evidence supporting your assertion. You are expressing an opinion based upon your faith in Trump.
8
It's impossible to know, without more information, whether this detention and possible extradition are warranted.
However, one thing IS clear. Without Donald Trump's inflammatory trade war with China, an incident such as this would be less damaging to US-Chinese relations. His belligerence toward other countries--whether enemies, competitors, or allies--makes all negotiation more fraught and less likely to succeed.
1
It’s a modern version of all the historic pretexts for war, the Lusitania, Pearl Harbor, etc. But it will work. Better to confront China now rather than wait for it to grow even stronger and more powerful.
This is extraordinarily scary. The volatility in global markets triggered by this arrest threaten large scale global recession, similar to what we experienced 10 years ago.
If there is credible evidence Ms. Meng committed a serious criminal violation of US law on US soil she probably should have been arrested. But US criminal laws do not extend beyond our borders, to foreign nationals. The US does not own the world, and must not pretend it does. When a US citizen is arrested by a foreign country on what appear to be inappropriate charges, there is understandable outrage. We must - must - respect this same principle and know the limits of our own sovereignty.
Was this arrest due to well thought out Federal policy, or is there a "rogue" prosecutor in the Eastern District of NY?
China is one of our most valuable trading partners, but they often don't play fair; they have used means both fair and foul to appropriate American technology. Further, America's national security depends on this country maintaining a strong manufacturing base at home. President Obama ignored these issues, so President Trump inherited them.
It's hard to tell, based on what is publicly known, if the current trade crisis is a necessary thing to protect our interests, or the result of our President shooting from the hip.
It is clear however that the public deserves greater transparency from our government, as the world teeters on the brink of economic crisis.
4
Maybe Trump is sending a not so subtle lesson to the Chinese, we can reach you anywhere, our friends are extensive, play fair or watch how we play !
2
Or maybe it's gonna blue up in your face...
Stock markets drop like a stone ... again.
Thanks trump, or should we call you "tariff (aka tax) man"
3
"Senator Ben Sasse, a Republican of Nebraska, linked the arrest to the American sanctions against Iran."
So if you're a foreign national doing business with a country against whom the US has enacted sanctions (but your own country hasn't), the US can have another country's government arrest you on their soil and extradite you to the US?
No wonder so much of the world hates America.
7
Her arrest "may stir tensions between China and the US."
Ya think?
4
This is ridiculous, it is not Bush-like, it is bush league.
Trump is a wrecking ball.
4
Many comments here advise the Trump administration to ignore China's theft of American intellectual property and copying patented technology. It will simply preserve the status quo which a continuing transfer of massive wealth to a nation that treats pays substandard wages to its work force, while polluting on a massive scale. The economic playing field is not level. The only thing the self elected rulers of China understand is tough negotiating and tariff retaliation. It's time to give them back in spades what they have been dealing to us for decades.
4
Go start a war on another planet, paul.
WE THE PEOPLE want strict international regulation and WE are hiring/electing people who know how to use intelligence and diplomacy to get it.
The Con Don would rather bully his way around. 2020 can't come soon enough for me when we purge him and his Robber Baron war-monger brethren from OUR governments at every level.
2
@paul
American businesses steal information and technology from one another. American businesses control our government. American businesses hold impoverished communities hostage to extract tax concessions from their underfunded municipalities. American businesses pick up shop and leave people destitute just to protect their bottom line and make their investors happy.
To argue Chinese companies represent the ultimate evil because they work beneath an authoritarian government while competing in a competitive and corrupt global market, is just foolishness. Our businesses are equally evil, and at the corporate level, have seized control of our government and taken power away from the people.
We don't just presume that individuals acting and working beneath a different form of government should be punished like this. This woman hasn't done anything worse than American CEOs, or WallStreet Banksters for that matter, who successfully stole billions and billions from American taxpayers. Were any of them arrested?
I didn't think so.
3
If I remember correctly, China is currently refusing to allow two U.S. citizen siblings to leave China and return to the U.S. until their Chinese father returns to China to face questioning in a business matter and probable arrest. The siblings had come to visit their ailing grandfather. Could the arrest of Ms. Meng be an instrument of U.S. revenge?
3
Where is Interpol in all of this? Isn't that why they exist? Isn't it a form of collusion when 2 countries scheme against a third? This is dangerous territory as this woman was otherwise traveling "freely". What happened to her "day in court"?
Oh that's right, guilty until proven innocent in Trumpland? Yet he walks free. We suspect him & his team of colluding with Russia & yet, he walks free. But then again, they are the party of hypocrisy.
1
these are the types of actions that need to be taken in place of a trade war. the US has every right to enforce its own rules on companies that want to do business in the US and sticking to our trade sanctions is a perfectly reasonable and standard request compared to the absurd censorship restrictions and IP-sharing rules that US companies who want to do business in China routinely comply with. they have no right to complain.
2
“US law prohibits exports of certain US-origin technologies to certain countries,” he said. “When Huawei pays to license certain US tech, it promises not to export to certain countries like Iran. So it is not unreasonable for the US to punish Huawei for flouting this US law.”
Intellectual Ventures located in Bellevue, WA is the company that has been buying patents and bundling them for licensing to companies like Huawei using the threat of litigation.
They are the company profiting from these licensing agreements. They are also a US based company. If a foreign company is using a US companies license illegally why aren't we going after the US company profiting off of these patents?
2
So a party to the agreement with Iran who still honors the agreement is in violation of sanctions unilaterally imposed by the U.S. and so the CFO of one of it’s companies is arrested? While there are supposed to be negotiations over settling a trade conflict between that country and the U.S.? China is going to fold because of this kind of intimidation? The Republicans are flexing their muscles. Tough guys. Who needs to use any thoughtful consideration when one can wield an iron fist? The only thing tough about these guys is the mass of disconnected neurons inside their skulls.
3
I do not trust China. No one should. This woman requested that details of her arrest not be released, so I'm not sure why the NYTimes goes on about 'very little' being released. Why does the US have a Chinese tech company in San Francisco? Why do we have Chinese 'students' studying technology here in the US when we know that China is working to steal across the board. It is the very theft of intellectual property that has launched China into the 20th, and then 21st, century.
5
If only Zuckerberg would visit China........
4
Time for China to arrest some American s who sells military equipments to Taiwan. or just make up some reasons to arrest them.
2
Arrest this Chinese executive while shaking hands with the Chinese leader, a grand lesson in diplomacy a la Trump. This is going to hurt us badly.
75
@Mgaudet
These actions are not mutually exclusive. Ms. Wanzhou is the CFO of a "private " company and Xi Jiping the president of China, two separate functions. Unless of course Ms. Wanzhou is working for the Chinese government and if she is tough luck if her arrest annoys Xi Jiping.
3
Way to go Canada! Maybe you can arrest MBS for us too.
5
Something tells me Ivanka should be careful getting off a plane in China anytime soon. I can’t help but think how this echoes of the Saudi Prince holding his invited guests as prisoners in a hotel. Who knows what kind of trap anyone is to walk into these days...
2
Hmmm, must be something in all this for Putin.
2
How ironic it is that what it takes to get a C.F.O. arrested (post-2008) is a #MeToo accusation or crossing the economic hit-men. This brings to the fore what was clear since Obama's "Asia Pivot", to those who have been paying attention, that all the tarriff talk and back tracking therein was targeting China tech. We in the West are terrified that Chinese nationals are doing most of the programming for the AI techo-hegemon. Alas, it has been recently heard that it has already reached sentience. (see exponential-ism)
According to my reading of the "texts";
Creative is the trigram of the northwest. It means that here the dark and the light arouse each other.
The Abysmal means water. It is the trigram of due north, the trigram of toil, to which all creatures are subject. Therefore it is said: "He toils in the sign of the Abysmal."
Need to do the same to MBS.
1
I own and use a Huawei phone. It's an amazing device. I also own a Samsung Galaxy S8, which cost $300 dollars more than the Huawei. I use the Huawei, because it's a superior phone in a lot of ways.
I see this action of arresting the CEO of Huawei to be yet another dangerous precedence set by an out of control executive branch. What's to keep other countries from arresting some of our prominent business people? An alleged ally just killed one of our premiere journalists.
These measures against market competition demonstrate the corporate control of our government. The influence not only Congress, I fear, but through other instruments of power ignite actions such as these. We arrested a legitimate business woman from China. We sell arms to a tyrannical Prince who is committing genocide by siege in Yemen. We have a truly corporate president running the show, who is as immoral as the day is long. We commit ecocide and seek collective self annihilation, because the fossil fuel energy industry holds more power than the American people.
Because of all of this; because we all know and feel that the social contract has been severed due to the corporate coup de ta' responsible for every atrocious event, from the arrest of this Chinese CEO, to the destruction of labor advocacy in America, a rising nihilism is at hand, and it leads to the diseases of despair that are destroying so many precious souls.
6
@PJ why would you willingly carry around a CCP tracking and monitoring device?
2
@Kohl
Ever heard of a VPN? I use one with American or Chinese tech, obviously.
Since when are the Chinese required to respect our sanctions against a third party? We're the ones with the hardon for Iran -- it's our problem, not theirs.
7
@Jim
Since they agreed when they licensed the US technology not to export it to certain countries like Iran.
2
@HL Since when is breach of contract a criminal offense?
Expect China to arrest one or more American executives if this this case isn't resolved quickly.
3
Oh for heaven's sake. Get on with World War III. I'm tired of waiting.
3
It is beyond sad that the people who make "picks" and many people in this comments section don't realize what an evil company Huawei is.
3
@Kohl
What evidence do you have that Huawei is evil? Write about that. Sure, Chinese businesses implementing cutthroat policies in the context of ruthless market competition, populated by people just like you and I - who want to make money to support themselves and their families - represent the ultimate evil. But in the United States, we allow businesses to control our government, exploit and imprison our people, and have no qualms with firing people without severance, hiring without benefits, or will pick up shop and move to another country to protect the bottom line = like GM just did. Not to mention the legality of monopolies in America, municipalities forfeiting tax payer money so their citizens can work in an oppressive Amazon warehouse instead of be homeless.
Give me a break. Sure, American businesses good; Chinese businesses bad. It's really that simple right?
NO
This, the tariffs, the political posturing toward China, the threats and saber rattling, are about protecting the most profitable U.S. businesses. These are all actions taken on behalf of the 1%, because they control the federal government, and all of it's levers of power.
3
Evil? Everything is relative. Your car is full of gas provided to you by a regime who is executing people after short trials based in accusations of "sorcery and witchcraft". The defendants are often poor immigrants who don't understand the language spoken during trials. Huawei evil? More than the Google/Facebook/NSA/Oath-soup?
1
Think about it Good People. China is just a country of people who simply want to live relatively well. Borders are man-made. They often do not represent the hearts and souls of the majority of the people who live within them.
So it is with the Good People of every country. It is only the supposed "leaders" who constantly wage war to try to be what they perceive as "the most powerful". They use OUR resources, OUR hard-earned taxpayer dollars, OUR retirement dollars, OUR consumer dollars and OUR boys/men to do it. It is simply insane.
WE THE PEOPLE - average people around the world - must prevent them from destroying OUR lives in their demented power struggles.
Let this millennium be the one where we work together to prevent war of any kind and learn to live peacefully and prosperously. Let's not let a few bullies decide how OUR lives continue.
Not now. Not ever again.
7
I understand that the US can inflict upon states or persons that defy its sanctions some sort of punishment, like not allowing them to enter the US or putting banking restrictions or any other activity that relates to the US, but does the US, or any other state, have the right to arrest you. Is a citizen of another country obliged to obey your laws, if he does not live in your country?
3
Despite what President Trump wants, the US Justice Department is still independent, and the President can't successfully order the arrest or non-arrest of any individual.
Let's not jump to conclusions here. We don't know what the charges are, we don't know what the evidence is, and there is no reason to believe that this arrest is political in nature.
5
The DOJ is no longer independent. The courts, the DOJ, the Fed, our other coequal branches and all our institutions live in fear of trump.
1
Glad to see how easy it has been for Trump to win a trade war with China! The Chinese just quaked with fear and awe at Trump’s threats and so easily capitulated ! By the way, Sir Donald, tell us now (and again) why it’s not your fault that the equity markets are collapsing? Let us know before Christmas, since you are the smartest guy in the world and the only one who can save us!
7
Another brilliant idea from our "stable genius" occupying the White House? Exactly who is giving Trump so much truly disastrous advice--Putin?
So in the almost 2 years Trump has been president, has Trump ever made the right decision on anything? Given a choice, he consistently makes the wrong choice, and the very worst choice that is most likely to create chaos and damage. Are you awake and paying attention Republican Party?
And when it comes to diplomacy and making friends, Trump would much rather make enemies, to the horror of our allies and delight of our enemies.
Also, in his 2 interminable years as our presidential apprentice who knows and cares nothing for anyone but himself, he has told so many lies, and lies about his lies, and reversed what he says so many times, no one in the world can believe what Trump says, except his deluded base (with a lot of help from Fox and right-wing smearmedia).
If self-appointed Sherif "Off-with-Their-Heads" President Trump is in the process of rounding up the world's biggest criminals, I guess the Saudi Prince will be next. Waiting...waiting...
Actually Trump is not hurting China and making it a lesser power on the world stage; he is helping China attain stature. China looks rational compared to Trump, who functions more like dictator Mao on Mao's worst days.
Trump has been waging his own personal Cultural Revolution and making right wrong, and wrong right ever since he took over the presidency.
6
The only people who are safe are the criminals (MBS, Putin, Kim jong un, Duterte, and the Brazilian hitler).
The ones in danger are the immigrants, innocent kids snatched away from parents and now the cfo of huawei...
1
I‘m just waiting for the first European exececutive to get arrested because his company does business with Iran. This will certainly not help our good relations with the rest of the world and they will have no other political choice than to retaliate in kind.
3
Maybe more to this than meets the eye.
Seems about 6 months ago US intelligence experts advised the American public NOT to purchase Huawei cell phones because the Chinese have downloaded data collection programs desaigned to feedback to China data collected about American citizens.
If Huawei is indeed unfriendly and moving on US citizans this way, they should be ripe for easier sanctions to impose: i.e, the prohibted sale of limited use technology we have sold them.
In Latin America, Huawei is the go-to tech giant for cell phone use and those governments could care less. I believe they will regret it.
2
How about arresting U.S. citizens for undermining our sanctions on Russia?
7
I do support tough action against Huawei. Whether this particular action is wise, I am not sure. I think American business executives who have anything bad to say about China need to be careful when they travel overseas. If Australia, Germany or Canada are willing to extradite an American to China over "grave threats to peace and security in China", China is going to start making those requests.
4
Gotta love how the NYT, despite everything we've all witnessed over the past two years, writes about this as if Trump had a "strategy", or as if we could believe anything that comes out of the mouth of anyone in his administration.
These folks are great at breaking things. Building things... not so much.
2
Professor Ku says that “When Huawei pays to license certain US tech, it promises not to export to certain countries like Iran. So it is not unreasonable for the US to punish Huawei for flouting this US law.” A "promise" and a law are different. If I exceed the speed limit I'm not arrested for breaking a promise but for breaking a law. There are other ways to reprimand those who break their promises, aren't there?
3
Oh look, 95% of all execs are men and yet, somehow, they managed to detain a woman. She needs to be very worried.
4
Yeah, Putin's the problem, right? We need to accept the fact that the Chinese have the upper-hand in economy, scale, and manufacturing--hand-to-mouth servants we have become. Nice job Greatest Generation.
2
Folks, I don't care how much you hate Donald Trump (and lord knows I do). But if you are giving Huawei the benefit of the doubt over the US government then you need to straighten out your priorities and educate yourself on the tactics of Chinese industry.
10
The Communist Chinese do not appreciate that intellectual Property is PROPERTY that is conceived of and owned by individuals and companies. This notion goes against their grain.
They are communists. In their mind everything belongs to everybody, or should I say that everything belongs to The State, which ostensibly belongs to The People, ("People's Republic of China", the PRC, it's official name) , when in reality everything belongs to their illegitimate dictators like Xi, (who appointed himself" President For Life"), and his oligarch cronys.
That's what Trump is dealing with, the outright theft of our property. This has gone on long enough. If the Chinese were not stealing our inventions and innovations they's still be making the defective junk that they'd been flooding the market with for years.
5
Hey folks, forget that the Mueller investigation is closing in on me and my family...
Look at the new bright shiny object over here!
1
Good to see a white collar criminal arrested. Apparently we're just starting the easy way by arresting foreign, non-white women. Maybe they will figure out how to arrest some billionaire wall street bankers, or fully prosecute and then throw pedophile investment bankers in jail (for more than 6 months without 5 days a week off for work, and I'm guessing that was not to make license plates). US Justice, yours for the right price!
2
Amazing. She appears to have been arrested for political reasons at a time of political instability between the US and China. Can someone send Henry Kissinger to have a chat with Trump?
1
Please explain how "free market capitalism" as promoted by the GOP can make an independent sovereign nation stop promoting their own business interests and then arrest business executives who don't comply with US interests. Hubris and arrogance to think the US makes the rules all other nations and businesses must abide by.
4
@GTM
Looks like they just did, no?
That's RIGHT! No foreigner has the right to sell to our enemies, only Americans can do that ... amirite Oliver North (NRA President)?
All jokes aside, China's government ties with corporations is a problem, especially when it comes to the technology sector where software functions can be hidden easily. We've seen this in the past with USB drives that got shipped with viruses and malware. MI6 in the UK has already removed Huawei equipment from their tech infrastructure and has advised the public sector to review their buying decision making.
Without knowing the details of the arrest it's hard say if Canada's actions were warranted, I seems like something Putin have done in the past using Interpol to arrest his enemies. The timing of the arrest with Trump's weak position in China negotiations is suspect.
I don't think it's any secret that Huawei is involved in all sorts of skullduggery. Ask BT, now ripping out expensively bought Huawei hi-tech from the British telephone system - because, predictably, it's stuffed with espionage electronics.
But, arresting corporate executives? Heavy handed and likely to backfire. I mean seizing, or persuading other friendly countries to seize, foreigners is hardly difficult. There must be hundreds, if not thousands of US citizens working in China for US companies - Google has been out there for years. They must all be vulnerable to arrest now.
It also puts Canada in a difficult position - not helped by Mr Trump's hostile behaviour to their government recently. You reap what you sow..
I don't know what extradition arrangements exist between the US and Canada but generally these mutual co-operation agreements work on a strict reciprocity basis. You can't be extradited Country B to face trial in Country A on Charge X if X is not a crime in B. And breaching US sanctions is unlikely to be a criminal offense in Canada. Generally too, you can't be formally extradited to be investigated - you have to have been properly charged, usually in a court or by police or public prosecutor before that can happen.
There are many ways of getting back at China, president Xi and Huawei. Many better ones than this..
Trump - "Opening Pandora's Box is easy"
1
Welcome to Canada Meng Wanzhou. The publication ban was requested by your attorneys. A very Chinese fishy behavior. But nothing to compare with the U.S. Department of State going after Iran through his wimpy neighbor.
2
This is really stupid. This is how a cold trade war can turn into a hot shooting war.
1
I imagine that the 1st Chinese leader since Mao Zedong whose thoughts are deemed worthy of study by members of the Chinese Communist Party and the 1st Chinese "core leader" since Deng Xiaoping and the 1st Chinese ruler since Emperor Puyi to rule with the" Mandate of Heaven" aka Xi Jinping is not going to accept nor interpret this as a friendly gesture.
China did not hack and meddle in the 2016 American Presidential campaign and election. That was primarily Russian intelligence under the direction of Vladimir Putin in conspiracy and collaboration with Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg and Twitter and the Trump Organization led by Donald Trump, Sr. and sons Don, Jr. and Eric and daughter Ivanka and Jared Kushner and Benjamin Netanyahu.
The corrupt crony capitalist corporate plutocrat oligarch welfare Trump Organization crime family needs to be prosecuted, arrested,tried and locked up. The Trump's are the American Romanovs.
2
It's going to be tit for tat. Hopefully there are Trumps in China.
2
Mr Tariff Man doesn't have any long term strategy; he shoots from the lip and if he thinks he's hurting the Chinese he had better look at the US as they are getting the hurt put on them--I think this guy is all about himself in the lime light and not the flaming idiot he really is
4
sorry Mr. President but this is still not enough of an outrage to deflect from Mueller, but it is enough to help tank the economy
6
@scott
Exactly what the whole world is thinking!
Manipulating the stock market with his schizophrenic comments on tariffs wasn't enough?
Maybe use Meng as a negotiating piece at the next trade talks? Seems like a pretty transparent move.
1
Trump’s Chinese policy? He has none. He does whatever pops into his head at any particular moment.
7
"So it is not unreasonable for the US to punish Huawei for flouting this US law.”
Oh, yes, it is. Eventually we will regret this bullying when others turn the tables during our general decline.
12
I spend 1/2 my time each year in Bangkok where my phone is a Huawei provided by True. I don’t notice any huge differences between it and my US Apple iPhone X.
But I do notice a lot of similarities between the way US corporate interests align with the US government and China’s similar policies. I also note similar feelings regarding the threat each poses to the other. We use Taiwan against them. They use Iran against us. But here’s the thing. In many ways our interests converge. Free trade, environmental degradation, terrorism, clean energy. These are areas we could work together on.
China isn’t going to give up its drive to economic glory because we don’t like it. And please remember that China’s history is defined by external forces controlling its economy, its culture, its people. To them, this arrest is just another reason not to trust our intentions.
And finally, US corporations gave China their technological innovations with eyes wide open. In most cases, his wasn’t theft.
163
@RodA All evidence suggests those are not in fact shared interests. China does not want free trade. They want trade that is advantageous for them. China could not care less about the environment. They pollute waterways and kill endangered species. China has been building coal powered power plants in third world countries. China is perfectly fine with terrorism because they hope that it will weaken their rivals. China's only interests are as follows: more money for China and more power for China.
11
@Kohl
Hmmm, This sounds a lot like us these days!
15
@RodA
The public information about the Huawei is very limited, but from what I've read it appears that there may be something in the hardware or software that has some clandestine motivation. I can only assume it some sort of spyware.
To your point about US corporations giving their technology to China openly is not true. I've worked for a number of high tech companies and we were very reluctant to send leading and bleeding edge technology to China. That was one of the main reasons we used domestic companies whenever possible. I don't trust China and never will.
12
Given the recent harsh words between Trump and Trudeau, the fact that Canada agreed to arrest Ms Meng can only indicate that the DoJ's charges against her were significant and persuasive.
104
@West Coaster
We don't yet know the charges, let alone whether there is any evidence.
7
The police and courts are independent of government in Canada. Likely the government did not know of the arrest until well after it had occurred. It is not clear what power the government has to intervene if it wished to do so. One thing for sure: Canada does not want to be in the middle of this.
12
@West Coaster: of course the fact that the Canadian authorities followed the letter of the extradition treaty with the United States does not ensure real co-operation. Given the general disrespect which the Trump administration has directed towards Canada, don't expect our authorities to act quickly on the issue. Nor (I suspect) is anybody in any branch of our government is going to be especially sympathetic to the American position. Frankly, the most popular thing which any Canadian politician can be doing right now is to be seen poking a Canadian thumb into an American eye.
I believe "you reap what you sow" would be the appropriate metaphor.
9
This is essentially a kidnapping in light of failed diplomacy. IT is also the highly personal modus operandi of authoritarianism. Trump has also put every every American business exec in China in the spotlight if not in danger of arrest.
9
This looks terrible. The US cannot impose its laws on the rest of the world. The US sanctions on Iran, Cuba etc. are unilateral sanctions by the US. China trades with these countries and so do most of the world. This actually looks like piracy, practically a kidnapping at Washington's request. What does that say about Canada? What are the real charges? Because I cannot believe this woman has been arrested in Canada because her company trades with Iran or Cuba or any other country. The UN has not imposed any embargo on those countries. Additionally, year after year, it votes overwhelmingly to ask Washington to lift the economic embargo on Cuba. I think this arrest has little to do with Cuba, its focus is on Iran and to put pressure on China. It's almost blackmail using this woman. Now, let's see how the Chinese react to this. As if we did not have enough problems already with the stock market falling every day. I hope this is solved before further damage is done.
127
@Julioantonio We can and we should if we do this for the right reason. That is why the US is and has been a world leader...sometimes this requires threats and or cajoling of recalcitrant neighbors. Sorry you do not realize this. The problem here is that our current President has no uniform strategy. And then who should follow him. I know I certainly do not.
15
@Julioantonio
If the US extradition request is based on 'a failure to comply with American sanctions' it will get nowhere as in Canada for a crime to be extradictable, ot must be a crime under Canadian law -- under no circumstances would a unilateral American sanction qualify.
12
@JHM
world leader or world bully? The two terms are quite synonymous.
8
When will Americans come to accept that US law ends at the US border? What companies or individuals do, that is contrary to our laws, but do beyond our borders is not subject to US law. We must get out of this illusion that we make the rules that the world must obey.
174
@Penseur The company signed a legally binding business contract promising to not sell items that included U.S. products to Iran. Did you not read the article? Devil is in the details. This company thought they could play both sides, making it clear they have no intention of respecting the requirements of doing business globally.
40
@chris I don’t think you can get arrested for breach of contract.
26
@chris
Gee, how could China NOT respect Donald Trump?
8
As someone who travels to China for work on a regular basis - this terrifies me. Feels like an escalation that could easily begin to involve individual business people from both sides- pawns in the game between the 2 powers. Yikes!
443
@TC@TC America's fake liberal capitalism exists only if they are doing relatively better, (doesn't matter if it is just other think smarter, works harder or competes better), if they lose they change the rules, it's the real enemy of liberal capitalism.
11
@Scott America doesn't hold its true to Democracy, and its lose of leadership will not because of China, it is because of itself doesn't truly hold what it believes when face the test of a harsh condition! (Mirrors what happens in the border political picture.)
It lost it, because it lost it.
2
@TC
Business peole pawns?
You're mistaken. Terribly so.
Business peole are not pawns, they are the government.
What you're seeing here is the battle between the interests of one business sector against another. Nothing else.
If you're looking for pawns, look in the mirror.
6
Interesting how our government can jail a foreign executive but refuses to prosecute executives in this country who behave criminally. Say, during the financial crisis.
777
@Wasted
If they had jailed Goldman execs, there wouldn't be anyone to run Treasury.
69
Wasted:Thank you, thank you, thank you! A comment I make almost daily with little success.
29
@Wasted, also we don't prosecute Bush 2, a de facto admitted war criminal.
26
“The arrest of a family member linked to Huawei’s founder indicates how the tension between the two sides is rapidly escalating,” said T.J. Pempel.
So, what do each of the arrests made anywhere in Canada on the same day as "a family member linked to Huawei" indicate? Or those arrests that will be made today, or those made last year? Oh, are they are unrelated to "tensions"? Either arrests are related and dictated by "tensions", or they are not. Perhaps arrests are made on suspicions of breaking the law, in which case there is hopefully evidence to justify?? OR, are arrests NOT made on the basis of potential political tension ramifications???? THAT would be a human rights issue for the little people that are arrested with no "political tensions" to be considered.
Is Trump personally trying to hasten the recession?
5
This is a purposeful attempt by The Con Don and his Robber Baron brethren to try to cause more chaos and start WW3.
I hope from the bottom of my heart that Mr. Trudeau and Mr. Xi are smart enough to realize it and keep a lid on tension. I hope their intelligence agencies are good enough to know that WE THE PEOPLE do not want any kind of war.
These are dangerous times in OUR United States of America. A demented, inherited/stolen wealth, insatiably greedy, morally/ethically bankrupt, socially unconscious brute is lurking around OUR white house.
WE THE PEOPLE are the only ones who can/will stop them and there has never been a more important time.
12
In another article in today's NY Times the founder of Huawei says, "“Sometimes, it’s better to find a safe place and wait for stormy weather to pass,” Mr. Ren wrote."
Yes. Let's hope clearer heads prevail. What is needed is international regulations on technological spyware at any level - it needs to prevented by every country including OUR United States of America.
The punishment must be severe - not just fines - and at the top corporate level - founders, board members, chairmen/women and corporate leaders.
The answer is NOT war of any kind.
1
...He added that “Americans are grateful that our Canadian partners have arrested the chief financial officer of a giant Chinese telecom company for breaking U.S. sanctions against Iran.”
However upsetting this may be, is a Chinese executive bound by our sanctions against another country?
1
Read to the end, you’ll find out.
1
Let's wait and see what the Canadian courts have to say before we conclude that Meng Wanzhou is actually going to be handed over to U.S. authorities. U.S. authorities will have to show cause. And Canadian courts are independent of the executive branch. If the bogus complaint of Boeing against bombardier have taught Canada anything, it's that claims of corporate America and the current executive branch are often motivated by self interest and not factual in nature.
2
The stock futures are down. The rich are already paying the price—a patriotic example that warms the hearts of all in this joyous time of giving. So let us all drown our sorrows in another cup of wassail. Merry Xmas!
A few thoughts:
- Trump refuses to admit that MBS is guilty of brutal murder intended to cow his media outlets into submission, but approves this arrest.
- Thanks to professor Ku for explaining the use of US technology is at the root of the violation. The article was too oblique before that quote, so would have been useful to have higher up in the article.
- Just like with Facebook, there's a female face on the crime, even though men run their respective companies. In Trump's incellious universe, that's a Christmas bonus.
7
The U.S. had a Chinese citizen arrested in a foreign country for something that she did in China. How is this even legal?
2
@Gene
Because she a committed a crime against US entities.
@Sam
Irrelevant. Jurisdiction is determined by the location of the crime, not the victim.
US entities commit crimes globally all the time. You think they should face local laws?
Ms Meng will have her day in court. I really doubt she will be handed over to the US anytime soon, if ever. Should the gov't of Canada choose to intervene, it won't happen. Just like the US court system. As for the optics, it shows how totally misguided Trump's actions are. The Chinese are a proud race. They won't take kindly to this action. And remember, if they go tit for tat, I wouldn't ant to be the American sitting in a Chinese jail
3
This seems so out of line with what would be more appropriate, like don't sell them the parts, or place some sanctions on them. Is it possible to believe that this is the only company that has done this, or something just like it with Iran or other countries, or over all the years?
This seems so bush, so 3rd world, so crude and so small that it disgraces our country. We have now sunk to hostage taking, like N. Korea, whenever it suits us?
5
I would not like to be an American business executive who happens to be in China today. I think China might strike back and arrest an American. Fasten your seatbelts.
6
Seems ridiculous. She should've tried killing a US resident in the Canadian embassy if she wanted to get off scott free from Trump & co.
14
Trump is not nearly tough enough on China. And he doesn't have a grand strategy for china either. just lots of loose talk. Intellectural property has to be protected against theft and abuse, else the rest of the wolrd will be China's slave population. And as Trump cares so little, he also does not hold China accountable for climate change. If there is one big enemy to human civilization on earth, it is China. Trump doesnt get it at all, which is why he has excelled at repelling allies. Someone must tell him that Sir Branson won't let him onto his shuttle when the earth starts burning.
1
Americans working in China need to send their families home for Christmas Vacation. Now.
I see a half dozen or more spying arrests of Westerners working in tech industries in China, and forfeiture of assets.
2
So since his trade war wasn't as easy to win as he told everyone he is now going to play dirty. With China? How many American businessmen are there in China today? I wonder if any of them are nervous.
1
In this hissy-fit, I'm to trust either the statements from the omnipotent regime in Beijing or the independent judiciaries of Canada and the United States to bring the truth forward. North America forever. Freedom matters.
So the US government can allow Chinese companies to import aluminum and steel into the US tariff free but still levy tariffs on Cdn aluminum and steel.At the same time they lean on Canada to arrest this person with the potential implications to Canada/China relations.
With the Trump admin cooperation is a one way street based on self interest
6
An executive, really? It seems that the trade war becomes personal for president Trump. He will do anything to win regardless of the costs and consequences. It is like to open a Pandora's box that anything unpredictable could happen in the future dealing with China. We draw the first blood. Bad move.
7
Maybe this is justified. But my thoughts go back to the 2008 financial collapse, and no executives were arrested, ever! I'm still bitter about that. It took 8 years for my house to recover its value and caused me to delay retirement. And I'm probably one of the lucky ones.
13
Though I don't doubt China deals with whomever they want it is a dark day when Canada does the USA's bidding on this level. Canada throughout the Cold War had trade relations with Eastern Block countries and Cuba has been a beloved vacation destination for Canadians as well-they just aren't hung up on policing the world and selling arms ALL over the world for their profit as their neighbors to the south are.
Let the Americans police their own side of the street. What possessed the Canadians to do ANYTHING for a US president who has been so disrespectful to them?
3
If I were an American businessman in China, or had interest in a company doing business in China, I would be very worried today. We have just moved beyond a simple trade war with China. I don't think this is going to play out very well for us, or them.
6
That company Huawei was notorious in our industry for deceptive practices.
NOTORIOUS.
Looking forward to seeing this unveil a bit more to understand these charges.
5
As others have noted, this is all about pleasing the current Israeli and Saudi leaders in their quest to cripple the Iranian economy and force regime change. Remember the neocons leading the second Iraq War charge under Bush the lesser? We have the next generation of these folks in Pompeo, Cotton, and Sass. We also have Bolton as National Security Advisor to help remember the good old days of preemptive war.
Huawei is a legitimate high tech competitor to US companies. And I don't trust their strong connections to the Chinese government, nor that government's intense desire to displace US leadership by all available means. But that company does have an obligation to follow international law and their agreements made at the behest of the US government. But it's far from clear this arrest advances our interests more than it inflames tensions.
It's also not clear if Trump's domestic difficulties are the real incentive for snatching a prominent Chinese national north of the border. Or if it's a poke in the eye during our biggest trade dust up in quite some time. But, in any case, we have children playing with fire or maybe even a lit stick of dynamite. The Trump administration is more likely to start a war or blow up world trade relationships than rationally resolve serious diplomatic issues.
6
The Chinese political system allows them to play the long game in a trade war. The US cannot win in the long game because the US political system with its 2/4 year election cycle makes it hard to sustain any policy long term as each new election brings in new leaders who tend to oppose the previous leaders.
Say what you will about Trump, he is taking the only course to winning and that is to hit the Chinese hard and fast. So hard and so fast that they will decide to compromise instead of waiting out the US election cycle.
4
@Qcell I think your first paragraph is correct. However, it contradicts your conclusion in the second paragraph. If the Chinese are good at the long game (and they are), Trump's approach is simply going to make them dig in. His trade wars are a fools game that we cannot win.
As for the arrest, I'm interested to learn more about it - but the optics are poor if negotiations are our aim. If Trump is responsible for the arrest (which I rather doubt - I don't have much confidence that he knows what's going on), then the optics are _really_ poor unless her crime is very significant.
This is the crux of the piece:
“US law prohibits exports of certain US-origin technologies to certain countries,” he said. “When Huawei pays to license certain US tech, it promises not to export to certain countries like Iran. So it is not unreasonable for the US to punish Huawei for flouting this US law.”
The issue here isn't that Huawei traded with Iran, but rather that as part of the agreement to use American technology in their products, Huawei agreed not to share that technology with the Iranians. Huawei (and Chinese companies in particular) ignored that part of the agreement. At the end of the day, this isn't just about sanctions, or a trade war, it's about the larger issue of intellectual property theft.
12
So now, Trump is taking hostages in his economic war with China. Thus won’t end well.
13
Is this for past violations of Iran sanctions or present ones? Because the present ones seem like a flimsy basis for abusing Chinese CEOs, since they're the result of the US unilaterally pulling out of an agreement without cause. We should just admit that they're Europe and China sanctions.
7
"...a trade war that has been pummeling both economies." Maybe I missed this in financial news this week. We're coming off roughly 3% growth for the year and 3.5% for the quarter, the best growth since circa 2014/15. I just looked at Trading Economics forecast and they are forecasting consistent 3% growth for Q1 and Q2 2019.
4
Imagine: China decides that any company that does business with Saudi Arabia can no longer do business with China and is subject to arrest and seizure of assets. Susan Alice Buffett, Warren Buffet's daughter and board member of the Buffett Foundation, is arrested while changing planes in Hong Kong. China says that Berkshire Hathaway does business with Saudi Arabia through its McLane company that licenses KFC, Pizza Hut and Dairy Queen in China and purchases Chinese chicken and pork products for global distribution.
34
This seems more like a move to sour China on Canada. I'm surprised we fell for it.
4
@mjb Can you sour China in Canada? Seems more like a move to sour Canada on Canada. If it diminishes President Trump's leverage in the his negotiations with China, it could be that it was intended to. How about a move by the director of some US federal agency with a grudge against President Trump?
MIT has been chock full of mainland Chinese students for the past 15 years. Taking a walk on campus is all one needs do to see that is a fact. Why do these international applicants predominate the accepted student population at MIT? Hmm. Big money? Anyone out there know? It is the reverse of Harvard's attempt to have its student body reflect the general population of the US.
10
@CAR Because MIT does not discriminate based on race the way Harvard does, It accepts based on merit. In NYC, the advanced high schools accept students based on merit and are heavily Asian. De Blasio is now implementing quotas. Discrimination is discrimination is discrimination.
8
@CAR it's because Chinese are smart and work hard and that's why the future belongs to China. No nonsense in China about extra-curricular activities and being well-rounded. Just brains and hard work. Move over America the China freight train is rolling by you.
4
I strongly condemn the assistance of Canada, which America has called a “security threat”, to help them arrest a Chinese national. Where on earth is Canadian pride?! The Americans insult our prime minister and impose tariffs on steel and aluminum in an obviously spiteful move because Trudeau doesn’t toady up to the American bully boy, and we help the very same Americans arrest a foreign national. This jeopardizes our relationship with China with whom we have a perfectly good trading relationship that Canada has had many years before the US woke up to jump on the train, and which was implemented by Pierre Trudeau, Justin Trudeau’s father, who travelled to China and was the first western head of state to do so since the Second World War. The Chinese are our friends but the Americans are clearly NOT. Canada should realize where it’s interests lie in this new political and economic reality that is the age of Trump. Within a couple of years China will overtake our enemy to the south to become the largest economy in the world and Canada should choose the side where our interests best lie, with a nation that doesn’t consider us a threat and doesn’t impose sanctions designed to deliberately harm our citizens. Where on earth is Canadian pride and Canadian common sense? Wake up Mr. Trudeau!
27
Whoa! This isn't a black and white situation. Just because the current US administration has treated Canada poorly doesn't mean that the US isn't an ally. Our history of cooperation is long and will out last this administration. We have China as strong trade partner as well.
There is no reason for Canada to choose between the two as your diatribe suggests.
5
@Cranford
We're not your friends? Just your biggest trading partner and you post stuff like this. Know what happens to your economy if we stop trade tomorrow. For every 1% decline we see here, you see a 10% decline in your GDP. We grew by 3% last year. If we go to zero by stopping trade with Canada tomorrow, what happens to your GDP. It sinks by 30% so remember that pal when you start tossing out statements saying we aren't your friends. We protect you with our military. You are buying USED fighter jets for crying out loud. Wake up we have a President who won't stand for that kind of talk.
1
@GregP
Ah, the American bully boy speaks...!
1
Another great way to manipulate the market.
4
One thing I know is that she’s no longer traveling first class. She now has to be content with a bag of freeze dried peanuts like the rest of us in coach and will have to wait in line for the toilets. That’s what you get when you violate US trade sanctions.
6
Why would anyone buy a phone from the Chinese government?
13
@Kohl The same reason you buy your underwear.
Why must we be so concerned with crushing Iran, which seems to be the bottom line here. Trump campaigned on establishing peace in the M.E. by engaging Russia, Iran and Syria allowing them to help broker peace against Isil, is the desire to destroy the entire M.E. and Russia leaving only The Saudis and Israel standing so strong that we allow our entire foreign policy be corrupted to that end, President Obama attempted to broker peace and was undermined by Special Interests, when will the tail stop wagging the dog in America? We have alienated the entire world for the benefit of our allies in the M.E., we play a very dangerous game by doing this. We have our nukes but so does China, Russia, Pakistan, India and the rest, plus several billion more people than do we. I thought we would eventually be irrelevant due to sheer numbers, we keep at this crazy desire to destroy Iran and Russia at any cost and we won’t be around long enough to worry about that. We are beginning to resemble a huge battleship sinking as Trump and Bibi wave flags. The sight of MBS and Putin giving high fives at the G20 while a seemingly dejected Trump appeared lost in the crowd was absolutely frightening. I have a feeling our years of playing King Maker in The Middle East are about to come to a grinding halt. Let’s hope the Israelis get rid of Bibi and Likud while there is still time for peace, this latest round of corruption charges may rid the M.E. of Bibi(and Kushner)allowing saner heads to prevail.
18
@Ted A rap free-styler could make a masterpiece of your comment. You touched on all the issues that roil the zeitgeist that no one seems to know we're in. We observe pixels when we should be connecting dots.
2
@CLC: If we keep plugging along pointing out the injustices being perpetrated in the name of “peace”, hopefully someone will eventually pay attention, thank you very much for your comment.
It's about time! Unless you have a US Security clearance, you can't get the details of why this company has been under investigation for many years...long before the current administration. US Export laws and Sanctions have far-reaching implications. Foreign companies are all well aware. It is the same in every country; if a US company violates UK export laws for example, they can be arrested or fined as well.
11
@JG
Hang on...
A US company, or executive, breaching UK export laws whilst ACTUALLY IN THE UK might just get arrested and tried. But a US citizen doing this whilst OUTSIDE the UK? Forget it. Not a chance of arrest. Does American law prohibit the breach of UK export laws? Absolutely not. No crime, no extradition.
But this case is different. A Chinese national is accused of crimes under US law, with the alleged offenses committed OUTSIDE the US and arrested in a neutral third country.
The extradition decision will be taken by the Canadian courts in which, as per the British model under which they were set up, the judiciary is absolutely independent of the Executive.
I doubt this lady will be extradited. President Trump is endangering US citizens working abroad and will make America look foolish.
The Canadian poodle in all its glory, obedient of its master's order. What a well trained pet.
9
I think the commenters are missing the real consequences of this arrest. Chinese internet is buzzing about the arrest, about the supposed suicide of Chinese American scientist Professor Zhang of Stanford after an interview by FBI, also on Dec 1, he's the leading scientist involved in quantum computing in cooperation with China, about the fire in Holland of ASML a few days ago about to deliver to China $120 million laser etching machine for IC, to delay China from reaching self sufficiency in semiconductor manufacturing. Nationalism fervor is rising in China and boycott of Apple products were urged. Remember Apple probably generate more profit from sell of I-Phone in China than U.S..
3
@xeroid47 Apple has generated more profit from iPhone sales in China? Umm, no, not by a mile.
3
@xeroid47 Reportedly, the Chinese researcher who allegedly edited the genes of a living fetus, aka a human being, has gone dark.
1
This seems more likely to escalate in unintended ways than to seriously modify this company's behavior. Creating a national martyr in China doesn't seem like the smartest thing the greedy, globe trotting Trumps should do.
14
Trump is devious and unprincipled. We have no idea how his labyrinthine financial affairs play into this action. But the idea that Trump is subterraneously involved financially in this action (perhaps via the Saudi-Iran context, or just as a stock market play) is at least as probable as a Trump concern for violating America’s unilaterally imposed trade sanctions.
9
She broke US law, while in China, for dealing with Iran, and was arrested in Canada?
I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense. Foreign citizens have to obey US laws when not in the USA?
21
Welcome to the concept of the extraterritoriality of United States law. Remember Manuel Noriega?
2
@Guapoboy: "Remember Manuel Noriega?"
Unfortunately I do.
@Guapoboy
Noriega was kidnapped by the US military in an act of war against another sovereign country - an operation condemned by the United Nations as 'a flagrant breach of international law'.
Is that what you mean by 'extraterritoriality?
So, the US is going to invade Canada? Can the British and the French come and play too? Have a rerun of the Revolutionary War?
Good luck with invading China, BTW.
Russia blocks the Kerch Strait and this person is accused of not adhering to US Iranian sanctions. Sure, the US must stand up to the Chinese bully but Putin - not so much.
9
It's time for China and Russia to more systematically undermine American sanctions against Iran.
6
This will add fuel to the downward spiral of the global stock markets.
10
Cracking down on theft of intellectual property, embedding software and chips in technology to eavesdrop and monitor foreign day in the products it sells, is called espionage. If they flaunted US law regarding our sanctions with Iran, then now we are finally taking action. There are some that say this is wrong but those that do seem to support the notion that illegal, unlawful immigration should be defended, but if we don't protect ourselves from this onslaught of our citizenry and rights, then who will?
12
You talk blithely about rights as if they are something real. I recall in December, 1989 when the CIA was involved in a dispute with Panamanian President Manuel Noriega involving drug smuggling. In response a US President named George H. W. Bush ordered the bombing of a poor neighborhood in Panama City where hundreds of innocent civilians were murdered. What about their rights?
7
@Realist
Regardless …. I will just 'note' that trump & sons, the 'Javankas,' and 'any number' of persons serving in the trump "administration" had now and better 'watch where they travel.'
(I wouldn't want to see any of them arrested by 'aliens' in some foreign land before "Justice" here gets 'payback' in 'its' opportunity to make arrests of the worst-and-dimmest of trump, the trumps, and the 'trump adjacents' 'right here' in the good, old U.S. of A.)
1
@Chuck Burton Stick to the subject, if we develop technology, file patents etc there is tremendous value in that. The Chinese hack us to steal secrets form this sector or reverse engineer components that they then incorporate it into their "new" products. They don't pay royalties and this in effect is stealing.
1
I think this arrest is absurd. This company is one of the largest phone manufacturers in the world and leads in many areas. What would happen if China starts arrests visiting American company CEOs. This smells like a trump move.
16
@Jordan Davies I guess China will have to learn to play by the rules which pretty much everyone knows they don’t. You can’t go around stealing everyone’s technology, exporting specific U.S. technology to countries that are banned from receiving it and then continually expect to get away with it. At least Trump is trying to make the Chinese understand that behavior doesn’t work unlike the Obama administration, which pretty much allowed the Chinese to do whatever they wanted.
9
I’m not aware that we steal US trade secrets and technology or violate any trade sanctions. But it’s a war which we’re better able to fight at this time rather than if we waited for China to become even more dominant in world trade as it continues to steal our technology. Better a trade war than a hot war.
7
@Jordan Davies
it's very clear what will happen if China arrests American executives. There would be massive disinvestment in China for decades, just fo starters.
3
I agree with the reasoning the U.S. government is using and the intended goals. I further think that this action helps those that are involved in monitoring and combating the activities cited. As a member of the private sector who has worked over 20 years in the compliance area, I find that it is not uncommon for Chinese companies to flaunt all laws be financial, legal, international's,etc.
This is not stereotyping, its true. I can say that for years we notified the government about unusual activity by ZTE using financial institutions all over the world. The same very much applies to those large multinationals who are more interested in money and not the safety of the U.S. financial, technological and security concerns. I applaud the actions taken. All companies benefiting from the strong US dollar should be held to complete adherence with all US laws and regulations.
14
Sometimes, people need to admit that they don't have adequate information to form an opinion. They are left with two options. People can offer opinion about why so little information is available to the public or they can can be grownups and wait for details.
7
Some comments today seek to justify China's thievery and chicanery and espionage against the West as a retribution for hundreds of years of humiliation suffered by the Chinese at the hand of the West.
I have another, more compelling theory.
Mao was singlehandedly responsible for the annihilation of China's educated, business, political, artistic, scientific and entrepreneurial classes during the Cultural Revolution (1966 to
1976).
When it was all over, the only people left were peasants.
A nation of peasants cannot possibly be expected to reign supreme in the global competition for scientific achievement.
Theft of the ideas and inventions of others -- plus hard work to catch up -- thus became the pillar on which all of China's "achievements" rest.
11
@Frank J Haydn
But why STEAL technology?
2
@Frank J Haydn That's appallingly elitist. China in fact has serious technological research and development. The idea that the descendants of "peasants" can't make strides in research and innovation is an insult to every first-generation college student in the US, as well as countless in China and other countries. It also flies in the face of what we know about invention and innovation, which is often accomplished by people of modest upbringing.
Intellectual property rights are creations of positive law. They're not something you have a right to by nature--they couldn't even exist without legal recognition. They allow patent-holders to collect economic rents in exchange for past innovation. One of the reasons the US is so intent on protecting intellectual property rights is that we hold a lot of intellectual property, we want to extract rents from people living in other countries, and we're sufficiently positioned to maintain a global coercive apparatus to do so. The only reason China "agrees" to follow US intellectual property laws is that the US government doesn't allow American investors or consumers to do business with China if China doesn't agree to do so--the country is basically being forced to sign on to a big US scheme to extract economic rents for its companies. So the US government and the lobbyists for intellectual property are basically limiting what everyone else can do so that they can extract money from Chinese and American consumers. Not so noble...
7
@Frank J Haydn China was a basketcase long before Mao. The Chinese educated business class was already destroyed before Mao came to power by World War II and the hyperinflation caused by US forcing China off the silver standard. In fact Mao was on his last legs before the hyperinflation and war, and would certainly have never taken over if not for the Japanese and US actions. Even before that, in the 1800s, China was constantly being invaded, each time losing territory and control and having to pay large indemnities to the invaders. Compare that to Japan, which was able to focus its resources and rapidly catch up to the West because it wasn’t so invaded. Of course if China had been allowed to develop like Japan, there would never have been communism or World War II in Asia. So while Mao definitely made things worse, he did not singlehandedly cause China’s problems; in some ways, he was more symptom than cause.
1
Does this mean our politicians can be arrested for breaking multilateral international treaties? I can think of the Paris Climate Accord and the Iran nuclear deal off the top of my head.
17
@MarkM
My thoughts exactly!
And what about the US corporations who do a quick run around sanctions? What happens to their bossez? Would love to see them arrested.
2
@Mark
Apples and oranges.
This is about theft of intellectual property and selling it to countries that are banned from commerce with the US.
2
@sr
No, it's not. The article says she is being held on suspicion of violating US sanctions on Iran. No mention of theft of IP.
In case you didn't know, US laws don't apply in Canada. It's very unlikely that the Canadian courts will agree to extradition on any sanctions charge; that isn't an offense under Canadian law.
Whatever, the US Justice Department is going to have to make the case in a Canadian courtroom with the world watching. No secrecy, no funny-money sealed indictments. I can't wait...
Every iPhone sold has built in technology allowing a backdoor for the NSA to access it. Worldwide. At one time the average US citizen was concerned with over reach by its own government; and it would seem a successful enterprise to have transferred these concerns to a foreign entity. This has nothing to do with Iran. This is about the USA being at the helm of technology it wants to have control over and yes it is a security interest but not for USA citizens
8
@Aaron saxton
Is that right? US companies are guilty of exactly what Huawei is being accused of?
Why are we still such enemy with Iran and Cuba? None fo these two countries have ever attacked the US on its grounds unlike our ally the Saudis. Why can Iran not have nuclear weapons when we tolerate, Pakistan, India, north Korea to have them. It is all a sham.
The Chinese have stolen technologies for decades and we should stop this. I remember my nephew 20 years ago told me how the Chinese would come into the factory, wanted to know how everything works. When he opened a new factory in China he had to give away technology secrets. These are the perils for the US and Wall Street to get superrich for their stockholders.
But I guess as long wall street makes lots of money for its stock holders who cares. We are getting closer and closer to a plutocracy. Case in point is Wisconsin where people have voted and wealth have made sure the people wont have much of a voice. The whole country is divided between the average worker, the brainwashed who think they will be rich and the wealthy international corporations, who run this country now. I am old but I see nothing but a struggle to regain our individual rights and fair voting practices as well as true laws that are not only there for the wealthy.
15
@Greg Stec
Both Germany and Japan are under US military occupation. So, other, than being an 'ally' they don't really have a choice, do they?
1
Craig H. writes:
"Arresting this woman, a very public figure, will work up raw animosity between our populations which is then at risk of escalating and taking on a life of itself. "
Craig, there are times when a sovereign state must take measures to defend itself.
If we are to avert a war with China, then we need to start acting in a way that shows we will NOT be bullied.
Yes, it is that simple.
9
Perhaps Trump and Xi made this plan over dinner? It wouldn’t surprise me to hear China wants her locked up for their own reasons.
7
Trade controls? What about the chipsets in their switches?
2
This looks like overreach. The US has pulled out of the Iran deal. Hence US law forbids American interests from trading with Iraqi entities. So when an American company sells a product to a Chinese company apparently the American company gets a contractual undertaking not to use that product in trades with Iraqi interests. So far so good but what should happen if the Chinese company breaches that promise? It is in breach of contract and can be sued in civil courts or through private arbitration proceedings. American criminal law applies in the US or at most to US citizens wherever they may be. It should not come into play in this case. Under its extradition arrangements with the US, Canada may have been obligated to make the arrest. But unless there is more to this story than appears in the article, I hope this woman is not extradited or if extradited is not convicted of any crime under US law.
10
@Nigel
Nigel, don't be afraid. There are moments when even placid nations like Canada must step up and do what is needed to preserve the integrity of our political systems and way of life.
7
If you are an American business executive planning a trip to China, don't go.
If you are already in China, get out now.
Unless of course, you want to be a bargaining chip.
10
Some commentators suggest China should retaliate by arresting U.S. businessmen and executives in China. That's not gonna happen. Why? Many so-called Americans in China may turn out to be Party officials and elites, their spouses and children who hold US passports and busily make money in Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, etc. Meanwhile, real American business would get out quickly, laying off millions of workers and depriving Chinese of opportunities to have access to new technology and know-how, as well as foreign capital. At least some of them will be back home to make Trump smiling and America great again.
3
@Mountain dweller
You might have been right in 1998 or even 2008 but it don't work like that now.
Looking at the relationship between China and the West only under the prism of the last 20 years we rightfully can complain.
However, from the Chinese perspective this is merely a readjustment of many insults, crimes, raids and humiliations over hundreds of years suffered by the Chinese at the hand of the West - of which the BOXER rebellion was one of the earliest in modern times.
They see nothing amoral in taking some back.
6
The world is certainly getting more complicated for Canadians. I wonder if our American friends will start drilling for oil in what we Canadians consider to be our domestic waters north of the Yukon. According to the US, the border swings to the east by 45 degrees as soon as it hits the water of the arctic ocean. But what are friends for? Mr. Trump is certainly giving us a chance to more fully explore the question. The thing we really must remember is that for all the warts that our American friends have, as yet American society remains vastly preferably to a worsening Chinese dictatorship.
5
Bad actors: Huawei, ZTE, China, Trump, Iran. These days I root for Team Canada (am not Canadian).
7
This seems more political than legal in nature. It is a pity Canada did this on behalf of the US. Shame on Canada, shame on the US.
11
You can tell America’s trying every trick to desperately stay on top even though they offer nothing to the world other than threats
12
I think Theresa May would be to differ.
1
@DavidD The irony of you typing that comment on the site of an American company was not lost on me. What has the UK offered the world recently? There isn't a single company of global significance in the UK that was founded after 1900.
4
@Kohl "There isn't a single company of global significance in the UK that was founded after 1900."
What a lazy and offensive generalization. For starters, try Vodafone Group (world's second-biggest mobile telecoms company, founded 1991), ARM Holdings (a global leader in semiconductor design, founded 1990, but now owned by Softbank), Huddle (cloud software company, founded 2006) and AstraZeneca (global drugmaker, formed by a merger in 1999, roots go back to 1913).
Unless she is a war criminal or human trafficker, Canada should have stayed out of this. Our relationship with the current despotic Administration in the US is at an all-time low and we owe it no favours. Let General Bonespurs fight his own battles. This was a mistake.
31
@Robert Richardson She is an executive of the technology arm of the Chinese espionage agency, I wouldn't rule out anything.
1
there is an easy answer. Don't sell the equipment to the Chinese companies.
7
Julio... no... it's not right is it.... but check what China do in the same vein. One instance.... Australian Rio Tinto executive jailed in China for ten years...(8 down I think) for 'bribing' Chinese iron ore negotiating team. Problem being China didn't like paying market pricing for ore... so retaliation by locking up negotiators used instead.
3
This is an odd one. Canada is not going to arrest someone in Canada on the whims of Trump, so there must be some legitimacy behind the arrest. The timing of it all is odd, the 5-day interlude between the arrest and the public's knowledge of it seems the more probable cover-up here. I'll bet Trump was in fact wholly unaware of her pending arrest, no one with any sense would relay that information to Trump prior to his sit-down with Xi,
8
'Made In China' should be treated as a health warning. They've been ripping us off for years. Ask any of the major car manufacturers, it takes them years to get into to China, and even if they are allowed manufacture there (under license), give it a few months and some Chinese company down the road is building your Ferrari (now called a Banana) with your plans and selling it domestically for one-third your price. (just one example)
They are all about selling and very little about buying. That's not what the WTO stipulated, it talked about RECIPROCAL trade.
We used to make widgets don't ya know? But the Chinese made them for less, and we gave them the keys to the kingdom. Trump's corrective action is decades past due, and while nobody likes it, remember... nobody wants War.
7
@Rob Campbell GM and VW are the two leading car companies in China, and you don't find knock-offs: cars are fairly complex, and Chinese are very brand/quality aware. Indeed, while they are in joint ventures, after 30 years (VW) and 20 years (GM) their partners aren't successful at making and selling cars. So where's the theft? Meanwhile, GM and VW likely make more money there than anywhere else in the world - it is, after all, the world's biggest market.
6
@Econ Prof Forcing foreign companies that want to operate in China into these joint ventures sounds a lot like theft. The Chinese government is essentially saying that in order to do business there, they're going to get a cut. Sounds eerily familiar to mob "protection" payments. The joint ventures also allow the Chinese companies to steal intellectual property.
3
@Rob Campbell - Rob, you should devote more consideration to the american corporate elites who have sent your jobs overseas in search of cheaper labor and more profits. Don't blame the chinese, vietnamese, indians, etc. for being receptive to american profiteering. But of course our american corporate elites are "job creators" who deserve huge tax breaks, right?! This is hardly a one sided issue. Unlikely this arrest will make everything all right.
7
Didn’t China just arrest the children of a Chinese-American businessman as leverage for extradition? This seems... similar.
So, anything US intelligence cites as nefarious actions by China are accepted by Trump, hand's down, no questions asked.
Yet, anything about Russia is discarded outright, "fake news"?
Could it be because there's more plans for Trump related businesses in Russia than China?
Sure, no conflict of interest there.
4
@MattNg
Excellent point. It is highly unlikely the secret service is spot on in one area (China) and dead wrong in another (Russia or Saudi).
3
Wasn't this the company that lent Donald a half of billion dollars for a construction project.
1
Makes no sense. Sounds like Trump is living in a dream land . A false reality where only his thought process is correct. What exactly is she being held for?
2
@Ralph Petrillo. I buy the dreamland, false reality part, but thought processes?
The US has failed to investigate, charge, and prosecute executives of "too big to fail" banks but manages to persecute Chinese executives with apparent ease. Something is very wrong with this picture.
12
For what crimes did the US fail to prosecute big banks after deregulation?
There it is again, Iran. This country has a pathological fear of Iran. Sudan? As if they pose a threat. The proximate cause of this crime is the US company that licensed the technology to Huawei. Had they not done that and made the device themselves there would be no issue. But of course, then the US company would have had to make it domestically and maybe pay above slave wages to a US worker. We can't have that. Book the owner of the license too. They started the problem. And for gods sake, don't sell anything to Sudan. That'll show'm.
3
A dangerous chess game. When you insult a family member the stakes rise higher.
4
Now if only China will similarly detain about a thousand "transactionally" oriented traveling American CEOs and US politicians, we can have a real party. I sincerely hope that a contingent of Wall Street executives, Hedge Fund managers and Corporate CEOs takes a quick flight to Beijing to investigate this matter immediately.
9
But why would Canada cooperate with the U.S., even if both have extradition treaty?
Could it be a payback to Huawei destroying one of Canadian crown jewel, the Northern Telecom, known as Nortel when Huawei hacked it?*
David Faber of CNBC did a nice expose of the episode
13
Mediacom Cable uses Huawei transport gear, high bandwidth fiber optic, across the nation. I wonder how many back doors this provides.
6
The arrest seems to be such a big ambush while the US Gov is trying suffocate Huawei from the leading position in the 5G era.
The trade war is better than the actual war with all the elites involved as victims.
The US Gov and the leading technical giants are no better than each other given the Prim spying program.
It is an interesting time as we will witness the fall of the US and the ruse of East Asia.
The 3rd world War will come once all the conflicts can not be resolved on the negotiation table.
3
@Kinson I think you underestimate the will of the American people. While change of 'Empire' may be inevitable, that time is not now. History tells us control rarely changes hands without War. It would be nice to avoid that.
Don't you know that the United States is NOT, and has never been, an Empire?
1
@Rob Campbell if you believe that I have a bridge to sell you. Empire is as empire does.
The US misinterprets the concept of "intellectual property". It is one basic element of human civilization that ideas are free.
Patents are an exception meant to encourage people to share discoveries. If you - like the US - block others from access to certain technologies you effectively give up the right to control that technology.
4
@Wim Roffel
You are conflating two separate areas of law: patents vs. export ontrol law.
Patents allow the owner to exclude others from use of the patent for a fixed period of tme, except on licensing terms to which both parties have agreed. Those licensing terms may include whether and on what terms the patent may be sublicensed. The underlying invention, or "idea", is thus subject to limitation (and isn't "free" unless the owner decides to make it so,)until the term if the patent expires.
Export control laws and laws governing financial sanctions by the US Treasury determine to which countries and users sensitive technologies (including military) may be exported and the terms of use that must be followed by the recipient. Individual users or countries may be sanctioned for not following export control laws.
This is what happened to ZTE and is evidently why Huawei's CFO is being held during inestigation of Huawei's similar alleged attempts to avoid export control limitations. These use terms (or outright export bans re certain countries or sanctioned users) may be incorporated in a patent licensing agreement so that there is no need for separate agreements, but they are not part of the patent (intellectual property) law. They have a completely different legal basis.
15
@Wim Roffel
You are conflating two separate areas of law: patents vs. export control law.
Patents allow the owner to exclude others from use of the patent for a fixed period of time, except on licensing terms to which both parties have agreed. Those licensing terms may include whether and on what terms the patent may be sublicensed. The underlying invention, or "idea", is thus subject to limitation (and isn't "free" unless the owner decides to make it so) until the term if the patent expires.
Export control laws and laws governing financial sanctions by the US Treasury determine to which countries and users sensitive technologies (including military) may be exported and the terms of use that must be followed by the recipient. Individual users or countries may be sanctioned for not following export control laws.
This is what happened to ZTE and is evidently why Huawei's CFO is being held during investigation of Huawei's similar alleged attempts to avoid export control limitations. These use terms (or outright export bans re certain countries or sanctioned users) may be incorporated in a patent licensing agreement so that there is no need for separate agreements, but they are not part of the patent (intellectual property) law. They have a completely different legal basis.
The Netherlands uses the same term of patent protection as the US and is a member of several of the same international export control regimes as the US.
3
@Wim Roffel Not sure what your knowledge is of US intellectual property law, or are you just someone who believes that all technology should be able to be appropriated and used for some greater good. Patents in US are intended to exclude 3rd parties from using that technology for 20 years. US has had China steal vast amounts of intellectual property over last 40 years with impunity. There is no Chinese “law”, Chinese courts are subservient to the Chinese government and suing Chinese companies in China is a useless exercise. If nothing else, there is at least a discussion now as to whether a major1st world country can continue to steal the technology and violate the patents of non Chinese companies, without any consequences.
7
To all the China apologists - If this woman is innocent, she'll have her day in court and have a chance to defend herself. She is rich - she could afford some of the best defense lawyers money can buy, so she'll probably get off easy.
Contrast this to the two US born children of a Chinese born executive who are being held in China as bargaining chips to get said executive to go back to China.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/25/us/politics/china-exit-ban.html
Does anyone expect the Chinese court system to allow that family a fair hearing?
16
@Mark
Where do you see any China apologists? I do not see one comment here defending China’s practices of kidnapping or detaining people.
People are upset at the US holding a major executive of a foreign company hostage because our government thinks that it should decide who everyone else in the world trades with. The effect will be deterioration in our commercial relationships, possible retaliation against American travelers, and massive damage to ordinary people’s 401ks, all because our government wants to take the side of thugs in Saudi Arabia against the ones in Iran.
The fact that you equate criticism of the US as being a China apologist is concerning. Actually, both governments are bad, and their aggressive actions hurt the ordinary people in both countries who just want to do business with each other and be able to travel to other countries without worrying about being arrested because of geopolitics.
8
@Mark
One can be critical of this act without being a China apologist.
I was worried about China 20 years ago when a Chinese friend in Singapore told me this: he does not understand the rush of people to do business in China. Even he as a Singapore Chinese does not trust the Chinese to do business with. They will win because of their Confucian ethics, which is purely based on power, materialism, hierarch and the master-disciple ideology. (it's more complex of course - but these are some of the pillars)
@Aoy So you're ok with a foreign company buying US goods with export restrictions and shipping those goods to a restricted country anyway?
This isn't about selling rice to Iran.
1
Wow,I think Uncle Sam is anxious about this leading 5G company and especially it's from China which selling network products that don' t hava a backdoor for NSA. With the abiltiy of the hacking skill of the US, any evidence of the spy behavior would be a deadly shoot for Huawei .Uncle Sam please don't insult people's intelligence.I'm working for Europen's communications giant in China,same wireless base satation in China and USA has difference price,I won't give you the number,it is shaking, many times.More bans on Huawei more benifit other company get.and the loss is US customer's mobile service price.
And,the right way to keep your tech advance is to develop new one,if any company thinks China is not a safe place for their IP, just don't go there , it is fair.
6
Canada should release her immediately with an apology. Until the US takes Canada off its list of "security risk" countries, then there is no reason to execute an arrest warrant.
10
@macbeth Right! It's been a long time since Canada owed the US any favours.
6
The rise of Huawei paralleled the downfall of North America's Nortel and left unchecked Huawei will ultimately dethrone Cisco.
2
DJT’s chief of staff: Note to self. Cancel all of Jared and Ivanka’s trips abroad.
12
@Neil Austrian
More to the point - all US CEO travel to Asia
What I see from earlier news in the Wall Street Journal (how dare them stop the press from reporting "why" she is being held) is that this is due to this Company ignoring the ban on trade with Iran instigated by the US. This is also what a Rep. Senator from Nebraska reported. China will never go along with worldwide sanctions where they can make money. I applaud this detention, even when it makes Trump's ridiculous sanctions even more ridiculous...and here I mean trade with China, although they steal our technology and do not play fair there must be another way. As to the arrest, go for it USA.
9
"...national security concerns and how it might allow China — specifically citing Huawei — to leap ahead in next-generation 5G wireless networks."
This is so funny, yes?
I mean, our President professes concern about national security if Iran gets 5G networks?
Either Trump or Mssrs.Wakabayashi and Rappeport are gas-lighting us, or they forgot we live in America. The richest country on earth, and the country where telecom giants refuse to provide competent, fast, or affordable service as the mainstay of their business plan.
Americans have no idea what smart-phones can do, or how well, or how fast, or how cheaply.
American business, again, finds a way to make huge bucks out of lying to and under-serving their customers.
I don't know what Trump is worried about, at least regarding communication technology, but it has nothing at all to do with the services available to American citizens, businesses, or the military.
As we do in so many fields, I expect it won't be long before the US starts filing angry protests, law suits, and resorting to bullying of one kind or another to prevent foreign companies from bringing excellent services to American customers, in the name of fairness.
Our business is as perverse as our politics has become.
9
The sheer arrogance of the US is appalling. This woman wasn't in the US; her company may be trading with Iran not through the US; the other nations to the treaty with Iran are not imposing sanctions. By what right under International law can she be arrested in a country outside the US for dealing with another country outside the US. I just hope that other countries adopt the same 'standards' against US citizens (actually, no, I wouldn't want other countries to stoop that far)
11
Just returned a bit ago from my local (aka the pub). This story was on CBC Newsworld on the television overhead.
Apparently we in Canada have signed an international arrest warrant, which empowered our RCMP to arrest this communist from China.
We voted at our local this evening and would very much like to use this international arrest warrant to arrest the American Donald J. Trump for crimes against humanity.
We do not have the death penalty in Canada, but we can have him locked up for a tidy bit of time. He will eat Poutine and Marmite on toast and like it.
If Parliament in Ottawa will not fund our endeavours, we feel we can raise the funds required by selling Tim Bits at Christmas markets, book sales, ringing the bell for loonies and twonies to support world democracy in hundreds of Canadian villages from all three of Canada's coasts.
We are a northern people and we know how to fundraise. Even in the snow.
23
@MKS Sorry, but our Constitution expressly forbids cruel and unusual punishment. Subjecting anyone, regardless of their crime, to a daily dose of Marmite would certainly fall into that category.
4
The best way to defend against Hussei would be for Apple to back away from its “rotten to the core” pricing policies and go for affordability! Maybe their sales decline, which is now being reflected n its company valuation will be reversed.
1
The sanctions happy US gov't has created a very dangerous situation. The obsession with damaging the Russian and Iranian gov'ts is impacting European allies as well as rivals such as China. This high profile arrest is a disturbing example of the aggressive US law enforcement ginned up from dumb political games being played in Washington.
10
Well, if the U.S. stayed in the TPP, this may not have blown up into such a fiasco. But in his "gut" instincts, iq45 decided to withdrawl from that,too.
Also, if our great American technology coprorations had kept their manufacturing operations on American shores, this probably would have never happened; they virtually handed them the technology.
22
Is the the best way to deal with those? Seems to over personalize it. Why not just ban Huawei from buying us components like ZTE.
2
America don't hold its true to Democracy, and its lose of leadership will not because of China, it is because of itself doesn't truly hold what it believes when face the test of a harsh condition! (Mirrors what happens in the border political picture.)
It lost it, because it lost it.
6
Clearly the Shanghai Internet Research Agency isn’t up to St. Petersburg standards.
10
The United States is schooling China on the multiple ways to conduct effective political, economic, legal and gunboat terrorism against the rest of the world. China has a long long way to catch up when it comes to reaching the United States' standards in such state conduct.
BTW, my entire family has stopped buying most American consumer products. Where we used to buy Iphones (among others), we will now be switching to superior Huawei phones. Doesn't even feel like a loss actually.
And I am not the only one boycotting the United States for its conduct of terrorism against the rest of the world.
12
If you have been doing biz in China, you’d understand how Chinese competitors squeeze you. You may change your view 180 degrees. In high tech, especially backed up by communist government, they take care of you one by one (based on threatening, technology theft, tweaking the regulation to be more amicable to local competitors etc).
Remember NYT is banned in China. Why? Is that the fairness you want? Exercise your own imagination.
But, your personal choice of consumer electronics is highly respected. I personally will never buy Huawei products to bolster their unfair competition practices however.
6
@T E Low Oh, so you think China has a long way to catch up...how about the Revolution? How about the way they steal islands that do not belong to them and build military installations? How about their wholesale theft of important minerals from Africa by bribing the despicable dictators who lead the countries they plunder? Come on...stop the bias.
8
@T E Low
Pot, kettle.
The US absolutely ought to stick to due process in this case, and generally, but can you explain where the previous chief of Interpol or all those mysteriously missing human rights lawyers in China are?
Getting mixed up with state terrorism around the world is indeed something to be concerned about, and opposed strongly, but so is conducting state terrorism at home.
6
Media and politicians in this country have gone nuts about Russia and China. We should let Russia have a belt of neutral buffer states around it. Ukraine and Poland, for example, should be neutral, not part of the EU or part of NATO. And we should celebrate China's rise from poverty. The richer they are, the more they will buy from us. Instead of worrying that China is stealing US technology, we should reverse the 50-year decline in federal funding of basic research. If not, China will stop stealing our technology because they will lose interest in it.
4
i think the rise of android os is the cause of this. Google create android to allow people all over the world to access this os to create mobile with computer capability which results to alot of security issues gllobally.
imagine that only ios and windows mobile are the only available platforms which need to pay licenses such a issue may never occur globally. Even huawei may not even rise to such a level to cause security tensions.
Though i am a chinese i will never agreed to the way china work with the world.
1
No surprises here. Doing what they do best.
1
There is very little difference between members of the Chinese government and the Chinese business enterprise elite. Both groups have been taking advantage of our chaotic political environment and our globalized free market economy for many years, but then again, so have we. This will be forgiven and forgotten by both governments in a month.
7
I don't see anything that could be accomplished by arresting this woman that could not be accomplished by legal injunctions and sanctions against the company.
Arresting this woman, a very public figure, will work up raw animosity between our populations which is then at risk of escalating and taking on a life of itself. Compared to that, legal injunctions and sanctions, even a trial and conviction in absentia, are relatively dry and abstract, they don't incur the same raw feelings, and the same loss of face.
193
@Craig H. Unless that's exactly what's intended. To create a smokescreen of a possible 'truce' while both sides actively work on ways to undermine it and make it impossible. This cold war has already started and those players don't want to backout.
7
This is really just a small part of a much larger issue. And that is Chinese expropriation of American advanced technology through industrial espionage and manufacturing contracts which demand technology transfer. The Chinese are infamous for a total lack of respect of intellectual property rights, patents, etc..
Add to that the fact that there is little separation between Chinese business and the Party itself; keeping US technology out of the hands of Iran, North Korea etc. is nearly impossible without cooperation.
This has been going on for decades. Most people agree, including me, it is good to see
the Chinese economy developing ...they actually manufacture virtually everything we used to here.
The key to the US economy is advanced technology products..it is almost all we have to sell losing a competitive advantage here would steepen our slide into economic malaise. If you think the 40 year stagnation of wages and thinning of the middle class is bad now..just wait until we lose our technological leadership.
13
This is a big-time mistake. But bullies often make mistakes.
Think what might happen if companies and countries decide that it is time to stop exporting high tech to the US.
10
@Analyst
You mean they might not export the high-tech they licensed from the US back to the US? So they're going to walk away from the largest market in the world, rather than abide by US laws?
Have you read the article, or are you simply confused?
This strikes me as a reasonable shot across the bow, and I am certain that I have more international business experience than you.
1
I think it’s ok for foreign countries to export their “high tech” to US if US firms violate the similar laws.
Do you really think China has a legal systems that transparent to govern and uphold your proposal? Else, why they have to censor information, ban NYT, Facebook, Twitter, Taiwanese media...
1
"Last month, the United States imposed sanctions aimed at reducing exports of Iranian oil to zero and crippling Iran’s economy, though China is one of a handful of countries allowed to continue to buy oil for six months."
The U.S. has the power to enforce this on the world? The U.S. is in the position to "allow" a few dispensations?
I refuse to believe this without a full explanation of how we pulled it off, deal by deal, country by country.
7
@chrigid We pull it off because we have the biggest market, and, uh, and the biggest guns.
1
Senator Sasse says that the reason is the violation of the sanctions agaist Iran and Cuba. Since companies of Canada, Spain and other countries trade with Cuba, can the US also request their arrest and extradition from Canada and Europe. Would Canada comply? This is imperialism.
16
This is all part of the Trump thuggish policies to try to punish Huawei and other Chinese companies in his trade war. Mr Xi will probably halt any further trade talks because the arrest and possible extradition of a board member of this company goes beyond most civil law. It is one thing to file charges against a company but another to arrest a person. This episode is right out of the former "cold war" book with Russia and USA>
The company, Huawei, is the target of a sustained conspiracy attack by Trump acolytes. There is no evidence that their telecom products have any improper chips or feedback mechanism. America is becoming known for conspiracy theories.
While Beijing will vacillate a bit about this episode, the probable outcome will see China halting talks and taking some actions which are not related to tariffs. Mr Xi cannot ignore the arrest of a company executive.
Canada should not have arrested this person on what may be inadequate evidence. Anything revolving around Trump sanctions against Iran should not be aided and abetted by Canadian government.
The Trump zeal to punish Iran has already damaged American image with administration support of the murderer, MBS. If he continues this assault against China, a new cold war in inevitable.
32
The Chinese don't get it. Helping yourself to someone else's intellectual property is outright theft, no less serious than stealing cars or robbing banks.
The Chinese are going to have to come around on this.
21
@MIKEinNYC
Probably. In any case this is about violations of sanctions not intellectual property theft.
1
How would we react if China arrested a US businessman for selling products in Taiwan?
48
@G.K
That can be an idea Trump is going to like. If Xi starts to round up US businessmen in China, the same would hasten their departure together with their businesses from the Middle Kingdom to go either home or some other countries. That's exactly Trump is looking for.
3
Amazing lack of perspective discerned among comments. Why all the fist-wringing, chest pumping about one company official (who knew the risks of travel to Canada) who is among the Chinese elite? I get why *our* elites react to this but that reaction is just self-serving. Worries about threats to travel reek of pious self-imposed importance.
China is a predator, like the U.S. We know each other. But the US does not throw ACLU attorneys in jail, imprison dissenting academics, harvest organs from prisoners, disappear dissenters, craft drones with facial and gait recognition to track citizens, or imprison 1M religious minorities. Yet.
So, get a grip. More is at stake than transient "trade." It's called civilization.
29
Like a 6,000 year old civilization?
3
@Abanaki
Excellent post! I couldn't agree with you more!
1
@Abanaki
To not approve of our government to act like a predator does not mean we approve of another government that does. As long as people do not step out of this type of binary thinking the next step in our evolution as a social species will elude us.
1
Look for $1,000+ drop in the Dow when the market opens Thursday, and then things going south from there.
Trump's Charmin Touch in action.
9
Here’s to hoping that Trudeau has the gumption to resist the U.S. extradition order and work out a direct agreement with the Chinese in return for the CFO.
10
And just when soybean farmers started thinking they could start soying again.
7
I hope the world keeps pressure on China, their theft of IP from the USA and various other countries is incredible. China won’t easily back down from industrial espionage. Slaps on the wrist and stern warnings do nothing.
14
@T. Maartin Nothing will make China stronger than this. History is the teacher. Wait and see.
I bet Fincen can also get her on money laundering charges.
5
This is hilarious. The US government arrested someone who is just doing her CFO job, didn't embezzle anything and doesn't have any final say in the decisions of a multinational conglomerate. But Guo Wengui gets to embezzle billions of real estate loans from the Chinese banks, escaped to New York, and gets to buddy up with Steve Bannon.
Who are they going to arrrest next? the COO, the chairman of the board? the CIO?
31
Deep State sticking it to Trump? It's show time, folks!
2
@Tumiwisi
The "Deep State" is a paranoid delusion from the fruit-fringe Alex Jones who uses the politics of fear on dupes to line his pockets.
Ever hear of gov't? Ever learn that gov't is a bureaucracy? Ever notice that the gov't bureaucracy is what keeps the gov't running, in broad daylight, while presidents come and go?
The Founders were PRO-gov't -- not anti "We the people," which is the gov't: they founded gov'ts, and "overthrew NONE.
3
hmm... will this lead to an exchange against the two Chinese Americans illegally held by China?
1
China should round up all the Americans in China and hold them hostage until they release ms meng. and shame on canada for this wrongful arrest.
6
@jin
This kind of attitude is concerning. Don’t you want to wait for the facts first? If indeed the company is violating US laws, she is the CFO and she is indeed responsible, on behalf of the company.
7
@Orion
"Don't you want to wait for the facts first?" -- which you follow with a statement of "fact".
The person responsible is the person or persons who set the corporate policy. She is not that person or persons.
3
@jin
This is a very good idea for Trump. It will spur US businessmen in the country to speed up their relocation and US-China disengagement will start in earnest. Who's going to fear disengagement? Just look at who wants a trade truce most in Buenos Aires.
2
Anybody think this has to do with the Cynthia and Victor Liu case, the two US citizen children of a fugitive Chinese banker who are under house arrest in China to force their father to return? Just asking.
6
America's *fake liberal capitalism* exists only if they are doing better, (doesn't matter if it is just other think smarter, works harder or competes better), if they lose they change the rules, it's the *real enemy of liberal capitalism.*
1
Why is the RCMP arresting someone from China for possibly breaking a law in the US? It is none of our business.
This is not about the US trying to extradite someone who is already in custody on another matter. This is about the RCMP acting for the government of the US and arresting someone in Canada without a warrant issued in Canada.
I'm sorry, but Canada does not owe the US any favours, especially not these days.
342
@Jan
It's called an international arrest warrant, Canada has no choice, they signed an international agreement.
59
@Andir
Does the US also have that "no choice"? In the reverse, who would force the US to honor a warrant it did not want to honor?
21
@Jan
Despite the climate generated by mainstream news about Canada and US relations, the ignorance in your comment, and NYT's unwise pick the two are very close and have common interests.
For example, China hacked Canada's National Research Council, the R&D of Canada for its secrets. Canada wasn't happy. US at the time wanted Su Bin, who was living in Canada and an aerospace expert who stole plans for C-17 cargo transport, extradited. Canada was happy to oblige, given both US and Canada were victims of Chinese espionage. So Canada arrested Su Bin and handed him to FBI. If you want proof, look at the Xi'an Y-20 plane and how similar it is to C-17.
Below the rhetoric in media landscape, there's a lot of common ground, common values, and shared interests between Canada and US.
64
We thought since 2016 Huawei is punished so many times for the same error or crime of trading with Iran. It seem US is targeting the company for its destruction. Of course it is Chinese government which can protect their Company and their Citizens. As an outsider we feel US is exceeding in its lawful controls on Other nations and their citizens. We do not consider this practice is healthy for the World harmony.
13
@Easow Samuel
It isn't nice for the "sovereign" US to interfere in the trade agreements established by and between other sovereign nations.
So the bully Trump wants to not merely bully Iran -- 15 of the 19 9/11 terrorists came from wonderful upstanding US ally Saudi Arabia -- but to mess with other nations' relations with Iran in order to gang-bully Iran.
Republicans have never been known to drop a childish grudge. The US (and UK) overthrew Iran's democratically-elected gov't in 1954, and imposed on it the tyrant Shah, who tortured an murdered 100s of thousands of his subjects. Iran finally fought back, taking US diplomats hostage, within Iran, and freed itself of the Shah.
Ever since Iran has been the punching bag for Republicans for allegedly sponsoring "terrorism" -- but let's thank and defend Saudi Arabia for the murder of thousands on US soil.
2
if the Chinese can stop an American citizen from Leaving under concocted frame of lies - why is a published legal case of violation creating so much noise.
If the US justice department has framed its case poorly the jailed executive will have her day in court and be treated fairly. The same courtesy will never be given to the American CitiZen in China.
8
If the US arrested a Huawei executive on the ground that Huawei did not comply with its unilateral demand, then it should stop complaining about how "unfair" it is for US companies to have to comply with the unilateral demands of the Chinese (i.e. intellectual properties for market share). The Chinese certainly did not arrest any US corporation executive for not meeting its demand.
10
Leaving readers guessing about the Technology licensed, I am guessing it might be eavesdropping tech like Stingray etc, because any other Base-station tech has to follow International standards and are Open.
Why arrest an CFO, maybe China is Money Laundering Crypto-Currencies?
2
When a private party licenses tech, it can impose limitations on who that tech is shared / sold to as a matter of contract law. A sovereign government can impose limitations on the activities of people and entities operating under it's jurisdiction of legal protections, i.e., purposely availed themselves of the benefits of US law. So apparently the argument goes that by contracting under US law, Huawei and it's executives become subject to US jurisdiction, and are therefore required to abide by US criminal law? Or that the tech itself conveys some type of in rem jurisdiction? Both of these seem ludicrous from an administration that is attempting to push back on the globalist framework and reinstate the sanctity of boarders! Huawei, which has enough of a presence in the US to be directly subject to US jurisdiction, is perhaps not the best case to point out these issues, but it should be noted that traditional limits on extraterritorial jurisdiction need to be respected by the US if the US is going to demand other nation-states respect traditional notions concerning matters such as passage in international water (i.e., South China Sea), boarder controls, and limitations over the ability of global treaties to supplant domestic law. To take an over-reaching view of US jurisdiction, while denying the legal status of people and entities subject to that jurisdiction, is inequitable.
7
We teargas and kidnap children on the southern border as a political stunt, and are now taking hostages in politically motivated trade disputes.
And all the while we neglect our number one threat to national security -- and life on Earth -- because widescale energy change is hard, expensive and would force the wealthy and powerful to make sacrifices they don't want to make.
It appears we have found a Deep State, after all, as the GOP is showing its true colors with what they will and won't do to maintain power.
Godspeed, Mr Mueller. Expose them for what they have become.
19
@D.A.Oh
Torture is the tool of tyrants. Apparently it has something to do with "freedom," or something.
The permanent damage done those children is heartbreaking.
1
I really think even a criminal should be given peaceful time; I mean she was just in transit and transit passengers should be immune from charges if not red-handed.
This sort of episodes makes me suspicious of the motive of a prosecution (just like the case of Carlos Ghosn).
8
Canada should stop helping the US with security matters until the steel and aluminum tariffs are removed. Period.
13
This episode is about the 1000th time when I wish we had any president but Trump to deal with the Chinese, which requires someone well versed in both economic and technological issues concerning trade, patents, and sanctions violations.
You can't negotiate tariffs via twitter either. Well, you can, but Americans aren't going to be pleased with the results, such as 800-point drops in the stock market.
It would also be nice if the president were on top of people sought after for extradition by our justice department. While it's hard to believe the president was unaware of this order while dining with President Xi, given his lack of attention to detail and daily briefings, I guess I should be more realistic.
16
@ChristineMcM ... but alas, our previous presidents were rather befuddled when it came to " dealing " with China. Such " dealing ", if such is the appropriate term, allowed currency manipulation to cause the shipping of jobs and production capacity to China, while the goods produced by that productive capacity were exported to the U.S. resulting in large trade deficits financed by borrowing ultimately from the Chinese Finance Ministry. It's quite analogous to an individual giving away his job to a financial conglomerate and then mortgaging his house to that conglomerate so that he can continue buying stuff from the conglomerate. Yeah, Clinton and GWB and Obama were really knew how to " deal " with China.
7
@BD: No President can do anything as US corporations throw themselves blindly at a market they will never, ever be allowed to dominate. Time after time they rush in, give away the store and then disappear after turning over their local business to their erstwhile Chinese “partners.” The problem is not the weaknesses of former Presidents. It is the blind, self-destructive craving for growth at any cost among executives and their financier whisperers.
6
@ChristineMcM The President thinks he has tremendous influence over the economy but he does not (big drops in stocks being an exception). He can only do so much.
It's really corporate America pulling the strings as far as China goes.
Huawei licensed American technology, then exported it to Iran, in violation of agreements. They will have their day in court and have the benefit of due process. Unlike the Americans currently held hostage in China.
25
@javelar - Are you talking about the two children of the Chinese banker who is accused of embezzling millions before skipping out to the USA with his family?
US lawyers succeeded in clawing back wealth from Madoff's extended family members (even the wife of the son who committed suicide) even though those family members were not themselves guilty.
3
We can arrest people from other countries for doing business with other countries? That’s kind of bizarre. I somehow doubt China has agreed to participate in the sanctions against Iran.
24
I believe the issue is that they are transferring the US technologies that they have licensed to Iran.
10
This is Franz Ferdinand moment.
1
@alkoh - Could be. Why do they need her physically arrested in order to bring a case against the company, or even the CEOs in absentia? It would be enough.
@Craig H.
Follow this up. Very interesting prediction.
"China and the U.S. are in parallel universes," said Kai Fu Lee, speaking at the O’Reilly AI Conference in San Francisco."
@alkoh No it is not. No one has been assassinated. A very wealthy executive has been detained, that's all. Yes there will be political repercussions but I suspect this very political move will lay the groundwork for some kind of resolution.
1
It's about the Iran sanction that the US imposed unilaterally after reneging the multinational Iran deal? I'm sure China can play that game too. Declare it illegal to trade with Taiwan and then arrest American businessmen on trip abroad for violating their law.
88
It has to do with Chinese companies using U.S. technology in trade with sanctioned countries. Chinese companies sign explicit agreements notifying them of the rules in licensing our technology.
21
Why begin from a woman? Why not the CEO, but the CFO of Huawei? Unbelievable low...
1
@TK Sung
Yes, please, do that today. It's a great idea.
2
It’s not a surprise to me. Huawei biz practice has been sneaky, mean and evil from day one with the illegal subsidies from Chinese government. They were dumping their gears, stealing technologies, bribing government officials to obtain bids/deals, receiving government subsidies for unfair competition with Ericsson, Motorola, Lucent, Nokia, Siemens, Nortel, Alcatel, NEC, Siemens mainly wireless networks infrastructure equipments in the early days.
After driving out most wireless infrastructure vendors out of biz, they are now commissioned by China government to weave the spy networks for undisclosed purposes. Use your own imagination. We will find out from this CFO...
24
@Humble
We in th e US also subsidize our companies and agriculture. That’s why when the US complains about subsidy it rings hollow. Mr Trump, by the way is the biggest beneficiary of government subsidy in the form various government regulatory reliefs, tax provisions etc. However, we yet know specific charges against Ms Meng, before we can comment on the specific case.
6
@Humble: Curious what makes Chinese government subsidies 'illegal' while subsidies to GM, AIG, etc. perfectly legal?
Really? Chinese business practices are "sneaky, mean and evil"? You'd never catch the likes of BP, Exxon, Wells Fargo, or Volkswagen doing those sorts of things.
9
@ShenBowen
And then there's the hundreds of millions of taxpayer-dollars in annual subsidies to the richest industry on the planet: Big Oil.
2
Unbelievable!!!
Can you imagine what would happen if China had the CFO of IBM arrested on a business trip to Malaysia and extradited to China?
The charge is apparently that Huawei has violated US sanctions (Iran, Cuba, etc.). Many countries have violated these sanctions, but the result has been financial penalties. The idea of arresting a Chinese citizen on a business trip is outrageous. We haven't even sent our own Wall Street bankers to prison for the many crimes committed during our last financial crisis.
Of course, people in the US won't care because the one thing that seems to unite both Republicans and Democrats is a hatred for China, and a willingness to believe any charges against China.
Years ago, Huawei did have a reputation for stealing intellectual property. They have not been doing this for a long time. Instead, they are a respected leader in telecom technology, leaders in deploying 5G all over the globe, except in the US (and Australia because the US strong-armed Australia into banning Huawei equipment). We know that the current administration lies about EVERYTHING, and yet everyone seems to believe what our government says about Huawei.
I believe that Xi has shown a great deal of restraint, but I think he will appear weak if he doesn't confront Trump on this issue. If Trump thinks that Ms. Meng is a bargaining chip for trade, he'd better think again. This is a dangerous and ill-conceived move.
...but maybe Trump is shorting the market
286
How do you know Huawei doesn’t steal US technologies anymore, even you admit they stole years ago?
Huawei patents counts in 5G does sound. However, majority of them are not essential or hand-shaking patents given China government sent an army of organizations to 3GPP to vote and uphold for their patents, sort of technology conspiracy. They really polluted and corrupted the standards process.
You should just respect the legal systems, IMHO, given your pro-China sentiment and rhetoric.
23
@ShenBowen — I agree. The bipartisan sinophobia among many of our lawmakers reveals a lot of insecurity about the U.S.'s prospects in coming years. Or maybe it's that we always need to have an enemy, for psychological and financial reasons, and Russia isn't enough of one anymore. Perhaps both.
I don't share our leaders' insecurity. I think both China and the U.S. can bring about solutions to many of the world's problems, even if we and it go about it independently. I see China (Russia too) as formidable assets for progress, even though I don't approve of everything they do. If we would leave them alone except to work with them cooperatively, their potential for progress won't be hindered as we've been trying to do it.
22
@Humble: I believe this because I was an American engineer working for Huawei in the US and a frequent visitor to Huawei in China, until I retired six years ago. There was a pervasive culture in the company at that time that Huawei had to develop its own intellectual property. This was understood among everyone I came in contact with in the company.
Personally, I don't believe that the 'Chinese government' sent people to 3GPP any more than the US government was sending people. These are private companies sending people, not the government. Did they 'corrupt' the process? Give me a break. I've been heavily involved in standards work. The process has always been corrupt, but in the past it favored US and European companies.
I don't understand your statement: "You should just respect the legal systems, IMHO, given your pro-China sentiment and rhetoric." But it doesn't sound very good to me.
40
We're not trying to negotiate a trade deal, we're trying to wake the rest of the world up to the mercantilist, fascist government in Beijing.
Forget all the tweets and hopeful talk about 90 days. The reality is we've made a very real adversary strong through trade. Most of the other liberal democracies are coming to the same conclusion. We're going to suffer some economic pain as a result -- and Trump should level with the American people about that -- but we'll adjust and move on.
The pain we will suffer from a stronger Chinese Communist Party exporting what Xi Jinping calls China's "alternative system of government" will be much worse if we fail to act now.
Trump, as bad as he is in many ways, is right on this issue.
38
@West Coaster If you are going to spend some political capital in arresting a foreign national business woman, I think that it has to be for greater transgressions that Iran sanctions- something like openly stealing technology which also happens all of the time- (when it isn't be openly sold to them by American companies trying to please their activist investors and stockholders)
I would trust Iran and the Iranian people much more than our supposed friends in Saudi Arabia
34
@West Coaster,
Bravo! Right on the mark.
11
@Terry
Terry, this issue has nothing to do with Saudi Arabia.
4
So if I understand Senator Sasse well, a Chinese company must applied American sanction against Iran. You can bet that Senator Sasse would be outraged if the People Republic of China was arresting an American businessmen for not applying sanction that the PRC would imposed on for exemple Taiwan. Once again hubris of a superpower.
89
Well, there is a key component missing in your logic above: Huawei and ZTE signed up agreement with major US technologies/components vendors that they can’t give these sensitive technologies to help Iran, NK etc. They must stick to the signed contracts.
I’m sure you don’t like to see NK or eventually Iran nuclear missiles to hit US mainland, do you? Especially with the help of Chinese firms smuggling our own technologies to help our enemies!
Thus, the logic can’t be applied to Taiwan.
8
@Humble
North Korea and Iran aren't stupid enough to start a nuclear war because they know what the retaliation would look like.
I suggest you focus your attention instead on the "stable genius" who makes great deals by giving away the store, then bragging about how that's a "win".
North Korea will never "denuclearize". What that means to North Korea -- and Russia and China -- is the US removing its military support for South Korea from South Korea. Trump agreed to do that. That weakens US national security.
Same goes for his pro-Putin attacks on NATO, which is the US's first line of defense -- as in, "Better they die there, than we die here".
2
@Humble
What a novel idea! You should honor the contracts you have signed. News to Trump, who unilaterally, with no basis in facts, decided to withdraw from the contract with Iran, not to mention the other signatories. Iran has, apparently, continued to adhere to the contract, so where do we get the idea we can arrest foreign corporate officers for violating contracts we like? It's a contract dispute, it belongs in the courts. But it's the Republican thing - the law only works in our favor, not against it.
5
"[McLeod] said she was 'sought for extradition by the United States' but did not give a reason for what prompted the arrest."
No doubt she's already been indicted by a grand jury and it's under seal. I seriously doubt DOJ would have someone in her position with the political implications involved unless that had already happened.
3
My advice? Sell short tonight.
8
The Guardian today reports that BT is removing equipment manufactured by the company
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/dec/05/bt-removing-huawei-equipment-from-parts-of-4g-network?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
5
@PrWiley: Thank you for providing a link to this article! I hadn't seen this.
Years ago BT worked with Cambridge University and Huawei engineers to deconstruct Huawei equipment to convince themselves that there were no problems. There weren't, and BT invested heavily in Huawei equipment. I don't believe MI6 has found any problems in the equipment. What likely happened is that MI6 got a call from the CIA, or maybe one of Trump's people, to shut down Huawei in Britain. This is what the US did in Australia. Our current administration makes no distinction between military threats and economic threats. We use the same weapons on both.
19
No matter how much bribing or pleading China can do, Putin wants China and America to face off against each other to make Russia comparatively stronger, and because Putin has *something* on Trump, Trump will do what Trump has to do. Or maybe there is a legitimate national security concern that will bring evidence in public court. The fact that we don’t know which is which should concern you.
8
Violating US trade policies likely will not be supported under the extradition treaty with Canada, but it will contribute to much political theatre with all three countries.
8
Huawei is notorious for doing whatever it wants internationally, but this does smell of Trump using the exec as a bargaining chip in current trade wars.
7
@K Henderson
14 of the 19 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi Arabia.
Trump publicly conspired with Saudi Arabia to cover-up the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, which under US law makes Trump an accessory to that crime.
Trump is notorious for doing whatever he wants both domestically and internationally.
Which is why US dictionaries don't include the word "hypocrisy," as that word can't apply to the US saintliness.
2
The EU has gone on record several times that Huawei presents significant security risks. This is not just a USA thing. Your politics are showing.
3
Very bad idea. This makes the trade negotiations much harder. It also puts a lot of US employees working in China at risk to retaliation. Chinese jails are vastly different from American jails.
It also reeks of being biased because of all the other firms that have either broken sanctions or laundered money but the U.S. did not arrest their executives.
The other issue is that every time a negative event related to the China trade war comes out, the stock market goes down more. If one pauses for the moment to realize that an awful lot of american's savings/pensions are in 401K plans, Trump is being very reckless.
61
It appears Ms Wanzhou will be charged with violating the reimposed sanctions against Iran.
She will have her day in court to contest the charges brought against her. That's certainly more due process than what the Chinese dissenter or Hong Kong agitator receives when accused
The bigger topic here is China's growing economic success and expanding global reach--Huawei is one of many enterprises that play an integral role in that expansion.
There's a lot to not like in China's policies - island building in international waters, repression of dissenters at home and in Hong Kong, "re-education" of ethnic Muslims, strict control of internet, economic espionage abroad etc. etc.
I dislike Trump and reject most of his policies but I give him credit for keeping China off balance and disrupting galloping Chinese expansion
26
What gives you the right to prevent a country to improve their lives and to avoid being colonization and hurt by stronger nations again as decades ago.Trump's charge of stealing and spying by China government is not credible. Who could do that better than much advanced America?
7
@Andrew Trust me, this will only make China more stronger. Read the history.
6
@Andrew If you read the history, you will know this will make China stronger.
2
This company drives DOD nuts. It is a strong Chinese technology company and an exporter. Does it have ties to the government in China yes-- just like American tech companies. Does it have a way to help China monitor communications, probably, just like US communications companies have a way to help our country. I get why the US govt doesn't want China to have a strong tech and communications company but arresting its executives is only going to introduce very bad dynamics while we are trying to negotiate a trade deal. What's next -- will China start arresting US tech executives? This feels out of control.
132
@Observer US tech should stop doing business with China.
5
@Frank
And thus lay off workers, creating joblessness.
Great idea, though, as that thoughtless "might makes right" "policy" is doing so much good for US soybean farmers.
11
@JNagarya The bulk of the jobs are in China. The only people in the US who have to lose are the filthy rich tech executives and tech shareholders. Boo hoo for them.
2
...finally, we're putting the Communist in front of China, where it should be.
It's an insidious country, whose goal is to undermine the U.S.
The CIA and NSA have said Huawei, which was founded by a former engineer in the People's Liberation Army, and has been described as effectively an arm of the Chinese government.
Congress has warned the Chinese telecommunications company poses a threat to U.S. national security interests and could sell companies equipment rigged to give the Chinese government control over American communications networks.
China is not a friend of the U.S. - it never has been and never will be.
The Country is a threat and needs to be sanctioned.
26
@JMS America’s a country that exports wars, destroys countries and starts wars for it’s own gain. It’s needs to be knocked off the top spot and have another civil war, whatever it takes to make sure it never threatens anyone again
5
"The aim will be for the United States to ease its tariffs; in exchange, China will be expected to lower trade barriers and further open its markets to American businesses."
Big miss here. The trade balance is not the real issue. The real issue is the theft of American technology and other intellectual property. The US aim is to get Beijing to stop that.
There is very little chance the two countries will be able to make a deal that satisfies the US in this regard. As begun under the Obama administration and now stepped up under Trump, the only way to prevent that theft is to keep US tech away from China. Bejing's promises to stop stealing it are worthless.
And all they can do under any agreement is promise to stop, which they've done many times over the decades. So don't expect an agreement any time soon.
12
@West Coaster
Oh, China will "commit" to stop doing it it...again. And Trump will choose to believe -- nay, brag about it -- when convenient.
@West Coaster
Microsoft was established on computer code stolen within the US by a US citizen.
Russia has millions invested in Facebook . . .
I have seen little reporting about Trump's putative racism and the trade crisis with China. There is little doubt that Trump's racist attitudes extend toward the Chinese and a kind of 'yellow peril' paranoia that the Chinese are an existential threat to the US; combine this with his tariff fetish and obsessive complaints about trade deficits and you have a problem for which he may not be seeking a solution. This would explain the contradictory tweets about trade with China trade that follow one after the other. There is no consistent policy because the problem at root is racist and illogical.
30
There are numerous comments decrying this action on this article, because they are concerned about Americans doing business in China. The solution is clear: don't do business in China. America never should have been in business with China, that was a Nixon Administration move which was always a mistake. If you are American and your company or job exists to enable or facilitate outsourcing, you're engaged in a morally corrupt enterprise. You are undermining the world's largest democracy an enabling it's most powerful totalitarians.
Francis Fukuyama and the neoliberals were wrong: China will not democratize as it gets richer. Xi Jinping has proven that. Instead, Chinese money has corrupted everything: American industries hollowed out by outsourcing, American infrastructure owned by Chinese state-run companies, corporocrats running government at every level. Trade with China has made the Chinese rich, a select few influential Americans rich, and all other Americans poor. Lock up the Chinese who cheat on sanctions, nationalize the businesses the Chinese state has bought.
If you work in the tech business and you think you're immune, just wait. What happened to middle America is coming for you too, just as soon as the Chinese can steal the right technology and buy the right companies.
Treat China like what it is: an evil empire, just like the USSR. It will take decades to do, but it's way past time to unwind our toxic economic relationship with that country.
100
@E
It isn't China that moved US jobs to China. It was US corporations that did that.
Ask Ivanaka about the trademarks she got as favorable treatment by China.
Ask Trump where his clothing line is manufactured.
27
@E Don't do business in China? I don't think you realise how many major internationals do business in China and many of them are US companies. Some e.g. Apple and Ford have factories there. Sure they can cease business there - just watch the losses to their business in the US and their US shareholders.
11
@E, I remember reading years ago about how US auto manufacturers were salivating at the chance to get Chinese people off their bicycles and into automobiles. And they did. They made a killing, literally. Chinese cities and towns are choked with pollution, and too many people are mowed down daily on the streets.
Back then, no-one was demanding that China become democratized--only that they buy, buy, buy US goods.
Face it: you've been beaten at your own game, and now you cry foul.
I'm not pleased with our government arresting Ms. Meng: it's up to the US to do its own dirty work, in accordance with its government's whims. The US under Trump wouldn't support Canada, so why should we play US games?
18
Meng Wanzhou was arrested on Saturday, December 1st, the same day that Trump and Xi were having their dinner meeting in Buenos Aires. Coincidence? In this age of 24/7 news, how come we are learning about this arrest five days after the fact?
Wouldn't it be great if Trump and Co would go after the real villains - MBS and his thugs, instead of a Chinese company shipping US origin products to Iran, a made-up enemy?
The recent stock market gyrations resulting from the Trump-created US-China trade war, at the height of the Christmas shopping season, are going to rattle US consumers and do not bode well for the economy. Time to brace up for a Trump-induced recession. More winning!
297
@Zara1234, yes, it's ironic (at best) that the arrest was due (it appears) to Huawei's disobeying the order from the U.S. (not its home country) to do no business with our fictitious enemies like Iran and Cuba. (The countries are not fictitious. Their danger to us is complete fiction.)
62
@Zara1234@TC America's fake liberal capitalism exists only if they are doing relatively better, (doesn't matter if it is just other think smarter, works harder or competes better), if they lose they change the rules, it's the real enemy of liberal capitalism.
6
@Zara1234 Nice idea, but the Trump White House is not competent enough to track the movements of this CFO, let alone arrange an interception in Canada.
This must have been orchestrated at a more line level of staff who do this monitoring for a living.
At times like this, I really wish we had a competent adult in the White House.
684 days of strutting buffoonery, jaw dropping dishonesty, and needless rhetorical escalations has earned Trump a well-deserved reputation for a lack of seriousness and stability.
Nothing that Trump says can be trusted to be true, no commitment can be trusted to be followed up on, no action can be trusted to be part of a thoughtful plan.
Trump's unfitness for office is most dangerous when dealing with international issues that require ... a real President.
684 days down. How much longer can we hope to avoid a spark that President Trump will mismanage into a roaring fire?
178
@LT How insane to have this woman arrested while Trump and Xi are having dinner together during trade talks. And speaking of insanity... Instead of acting like a peacemaker, Trump muddies the waters and roils up issues.
So far nobody's comments have noted the psychology of decision making. Is it possible that Trumps decision making depends on who he feels the necessity to humiliate? He gets a twofer in this case.
And what do we get-- a world spinning out of control, spinning in chaos. Which is where Trump likes it because then he is boss and nobody can contradict him because he's got positions on both sides of the issues.
Huawei is ahead in the 5G technology. I doubt they need to steal much from the U.S. That makes CNN's speculation more plausible that the case is related to the Iran sanction. However, if this is indeed the case, then it's a case that the U.S. is trying to impose domestic laws on the international stage.
32
You got that Right. The whole argument the Administration offers for not sanctioning Saudi Arabia is “China would be happy to make a deal with them [Saudi Arabia]” and for some reason we can’t let that happen. Why can’t Chinese companies trade with Iran? Because Iran is the enemy of the Saudi Kingdom? Why America is just another pawn in Saudi Arabia’s war against...the world. What a way to solve our intractable debt. Just arrest the guys who are holding the note in exchange for chump change from Saudi Arabia. Here America! Go buy yourself something frilly.
10
Why arrest the individual and not charge the corporate entity directly? What, specifically, are the charges anyway? Due process? Rule of law? If we're saying none of these applies to China because we hate all things Chinese, we are definitely headed for war.
13
I see the trolls are out in full force today. A foreign national has been detained in Canada and extradition to the US requested. The individual will then have their day in court first in Canada and then perhaps the US and all shall be known.
The story fails to mention one particularly galling aspect of Huawei's conduct in the West: they undersell network equipment vendors engaging in legitimate commerce using the wealth of the Communist state (ie dumping). The western network providers who have purchased from Huawei in the past should be ashamed. Why should legitimate businesses compete with Chines vendors at all? This is the appropriate place for tariffs to be applied.
90
I don’t understand why underselling to dominate the market is any less legitimate than what we do here. Here companies get government subsidies in the form of tax breaks. They don’t use the money to bring manufacturing here. They don’t undersell the market. They don’t use the money to forge ahead in research and development. They use their subsidy to stuff their pockets. Or, as they like to say, “Merry Christmas.”
42
@EV You're absolutely right. Although I find the Trump administration truly abhorrent the US government still needs to do things through lawful means to charge some and then convict them with a crime. We additionally need the Canadian courts to agree. People here are kidding themselves if they think for a moment any person in China who is arrested is guaranteed some semblance of a fair trial.
While the Trump administration is going about it the wrong way (undercutting and insulting our real allies, etc) China needs to be contained. They are not democratic. They are not really our friends. And they are big enough to cause real damage to the status quo.
17
@Miz Rix
A tax incentive is nothing like propping up the bottom line for products sold at a loss. Especially when done on a global level by a single government in support of multiple domestic vendors in a bid to dominate a business sector. So you're right, you don't understand it.
Also, tax incentives are usually precisely for legitimate expenses such as R&D.
And I didn't even start yet on Huawei being caught red-handed several years ago with stolen Cisco SW in their products, that's yet another vector to this whole issue.
6
I wonder if we've ever persecuted and sent the people who engineered the Iran-Contra deal all those years ago.
16
@Brian, no way, they were our saintly Republican law-abiders (ha ha, count the broken laws), as well as future right-wing talk-show hosts and NRA president (Oliver North, who should be serving a life sentence).
14
This is how nations at war behave.
20
@Tom
Misbehave.
Fixed it for ya.
"There's no such thing as a civil war." -- Mark Twain.
2
@Tom
No. You mean soon to be at war. A lot sooner than people imagine if this keeps up.
What a shameful political escalation designed to create a climate of mutual distrust between the US and China. Also, Canadians ought to know better than act as a puppet of the US. With his back against the wall and impeachment lurking around the corner, Trump will want to be seen as a big tough guy and this will play itself out in the South China Sea. When is the new Congress convening?
43
All things considered, this looks like a legitimate and ethical law enforcement operation. From a diplomatic standpoint there is just not much to gain by doing this. And the optics are terrible for most of the president's agenda other than being tough in general. The stock market, for example, is sure to respond negatively to the news that a new front was opened in the trade war.
We know China does not respond well to other entities attempting to gain leverage on a issue: their response will be brute economic or political force in another arena to punish those responsible.
Sanctions are a critical soft tool, used to respond to human rights abuses, nuclear proliferation, and other behavior outside international norms. Giving them teeth is not optional if we wish to project power in the post-Iraq world. The only concrete agenda advanced here is that the rule of law should not fully perish on the international stage. While it is out of character for this administration to support the rule of law to the detriment of economic issues, perhaps this is one of those rare moments. Or it was just plain foolish, but with a silver lining.
8
The US has long been engaging in hostage diplomacy thanks to the Neo-Cons desire to enforce AIPAC initiated sanctions on other sovereign nations. They did this with Turkey which retaliated with the arrest of Pastor Brunson. China has plenty of American businessmen it can arrest as the quickest way of teaching Washington a lesson and getting its own people back.
Sadly this is the only language the militant Armageddon Evangelicals and Neo-Cons in the Trump Administration understand just as their rural agricultural base in the Red States is beginning to do so as their living standards decline.
31
@M.R. Khan
And the U.S. only cared about releasing "Christian" pastor Brunson, leaving other Americans to rot in Turkish jails. (Disclaimer: I don't know the charges or guilt or innocence of any of them. Nor do I know anything about Brunson besides what the Times has reported. But one wonders...)
4
The parable of the President who lied:
What reason would China have to believe the US's allegations? President Trump sided with both Putin and MBS over his own national security agencies. Therefore, why should anyone trust those agencies if the President doesn't?
President Trump claimed the Global Warming was a Chinese hoax, accused China of hacking the 2016 election instead of Russia, and claimed that China was responsible for all 60,000 manufacturing jobs lost between 2001-2015.
Trump lied about the success of the North Korea negotiations.
Trump lied to Prime Minister Trudeau, then joked about it.
Just two days ago Trump lied about the outcome of the most recent trade talks with China.
He lies. Why should he be trusted now?
Why wouldn't China assume that incarcerating Meng is just another "tactic" by a 'transactional president," to "win a deal?"
And if the US can find Chinese executives guilty, why can't China find some American executives guilty?
360
@Josh Wilson, but they were all "truthful hyperbole [lies]". This makes a huge difference in diplomacy [I mean, a confidence game].
4
@Josh Wilson
The decision to arrest Ms Meng would be a Department of Justice call. Trump would likely approve it, but he'd have no part in charging.
6
@West Coaster
With all the obstruction of justice and abuse of power actions that Trump has taken in two years do you honestly believe that he or his administration didn't make this happen?
That's like believing the Mueller probe is a witch hunt.
6
The Chinese know how to produce, but they have shown little ability to invent. Thus they steal intellectual property from U.S. companies by means of computer hacking, spying, buying American products and engaging in reverse-engineering. In a relentless bid to catch up with American technology, the Chinese are using stolen American technology. Huawei has long been suspected of looting high tech trade secrets. Tossing the company's CFO in the clinker, even for a few days, may make a difference in the brazen theft of America's best tech secrets.
23
@Ralph braseth
Your evidence that Ms. Meng is involved in commercial/industrial espionage, for which every company in the world is engaged in when given the chance?
10
@Ralph braseth, enough with the stereotyping, or we'll be buried by Chinese inventions.
11
@Ralph braseth, Could you give an
example of technology stolen by
the chinese companies. This is the
same canard repeated ad nauseam
against Japan in 1980s: they can't
invent and steal American technology. For your information Huawei is already selling 5G network equipment. Which American company is doing that?
Huawei's products are considered the best. This is why they have
$90 billion sales revenue. Cisco,
American company making netwrok
equipment, doesn't. I am interested
in hearing from the readers if they know of technologies stolen by the
Chinese. If this was true, American
companies will sue them in Europe,
USA and elsewhere to stop their sales and claim damages for patent
infringement. Haven't heard of any such cases. This seems like concoction to start trade war a la
WMDs in Iraq.
22
Huawei is in the Silicon Valley recruiting and hiring engineers from all other tech companies. Not only Huawei, but other Chinese companies come to the SV to gain fast and easy access to coders who worked directly on our top technologies. Wake up America before it's too late or maybe it's already too late.
54
@Just Me: And how many coders in CA are foreign imports recruited by American companies?
25
They called them ICs because they were designed by the Indians and the Chinese in the Silicon Valley. But that was back when the Silicon Valley created the bleeding edge technology.
1
@Penseur
Thanks to corporate lobbying, the foreign coders are given immigration priority.
And probably work for less than US-born coders.
This fiasco happening right after the dinner and supposed 'truce' between the US and China is mind numbing. As I write the S & P future are down about 1 % (they were down almost 2%) and markets are extremely tense after the 800 point drubbing the DOW took Tuesday. This looks like a Peter Navaro move to exert his influence against Minuchin and Kudlow with Trump cheering them on like a modern day Caligula. It is unfathomable that Trump would not know about this 'arrest.' Perhaps in his craziness he believes this female executive of Huawei is a great bargaining chip to use against the Chinese. If this is his ploy he is sadly mistaken.
48
@boji3, She is a finance person
mostly crunching numbers.What
would she know about the technology?
4
@boji3
"sadly mistaken" is his core consistency.
2
Without a real reason to jail the CFO, this is a darker day in America.
125
@Peter
... and it's a private company with progressive technology for advancing not just a few people but entire human race... It has the highest R&D budget last year in entire Asia.
4
@Peter
In some ways its a darker day in Canada.
So sad about Trudeau; all the promise of Obama, and the same lack of conviction to bring it to fruition.
6