In the past, it was sometimes hard to distinguish what made the United States "different" from other powerful states like Russia or China. With the beginning of the Trump era, it has become almost impossible. In his deeply divisive and disruptive policy of drawing a border between Us and Them and expelling the latter from this country, Trump seems to have forgotten that America's policies in the past, such as the Indochina War(s), victimized innocent people, some of whom later sought refuge in this country. His policy that Vietnamese-origin felons who have paid their debt to society should be incarcerated and deported is shameful in the extreme.
Trump and his followers are basically moral illiterates. The sooner they are out of the government, the better for all of us.
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One commenter has asked, "What types of felonies were committed?" and states, "Even if you were a stupid teenager, there are some crimes severe enough to warrant deportation." I want to address this outside the "reply" function to be sure my comment does not become embedded under "view more"
Here is a crime committed by stupid teenage girl that
resulted in a determination of deportation (I never learned the end of the story). During an argument, the girl pulled another teenage girl's hair. The interest is in the details, and became a segment of a "Dateline" broadcast around 30 years ago, long after the girl had grown, married and born children. The son in a wheelchair was a teenager when she decided to go back to college, applied for a Pell grant, and found out she was not a U.S. citizen - her parents, who had adopted her as a baby from Germany, had never applied for her citizenship and she had assumed all along that she had it. As for the hair pulling - she had been charged with a misdemeanor and chosen to plead guilty and forego a trial. Somewhere down the line the misdemeanor had been automatically upgraded to a felony. Her Pell grant application had drawn the government's attention to her, and now she was about be returned to a country where she did not know anyone and did not speak the language. And her husband, unless he could find a job in Germany to replace the one he had, would be left to cope as a single parent.
1
Team Trump man when you think they hit bottom, wait they are digging.
1
More outrage from the Republican administration. And pointless.
It is not just Vietnamese refugees who are convicted felons who stand to be deported. A Canadian citizen, Demetry Furman, who fought with American troops in Afghanistan, was dumped at the Canadian border as a result of Trump’s zero tolerance policy. And Canada deports foreign nationals who have been found guilty of crimes. A fellow in his sixties, who came to Canada as a child was deported back as his parents had never sought citizenship for him. This though he knew no one there.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/20/canadian-deported-despite-having-served-for-us-military
The South Vietnamese did not come to America because "American forces fought a devastating war in their home country." They came to America to escape the North Vietnam communists who took over their home country.
1
It is simple: Trump is the president of a small subgroup of xenophobic white American and no one else. Vote him out.
Let's deport any white man or woman who commits a felony, because they're all immigrants or descendants of immigrants...
1
Donald Trump & Stephen Miller want to end immigration in America. Full stop.
Let me get this straight. Trump wants to deport former war refugees who served time for committing crimes but have turned their lives around and become productive American citizens, but he wants felons like Paul Manafort and the multiple criminal grifters in his Cabinet to lead charmed lives, free of responsibility for their theft, treason, and abuse of office? MAGA? I think NOT!
These refugees who gain citizenship vote predominately GOP. So I imagine they are happy to send these felons back.
Trump might as well have a sign hanging at every port of entrance, every access point in America, "Whites Only."
Despite the referendum on him by the midterm elections, voiced by the people,Trump has covered his ears and digs deeper into more hellish policies.
And why should be listen? He is just doing the bidding of his master Putin, sowing discord, confusion and fear. I think only the tip of the iceberg has been uncovered regarding his entanglements with Putin. Trumps instructions from his master: Divide and conquor, bring America down to the dirt and swamp.
Wickedness and depravity flows from this White House. His true motto is: "Make America A Living Hell."
Can't wait until Trumps time is up.
This is the key paragraph in the article and raises a question about whether the current policy is even legal, quite apart from anything one may wish to say about its morality:
"Yet these refugees were thoroughly punished for their crimes at the state or federal level, and most of them moved on to find stable employment and to raise families, Mr. Nguyen says. Now, they face a second and indeterminate sentence, though they have not committed new crimes."
No doubt, the courts will end-up having to figure this one out.
6
There are no words to adequately express my disgust, dismay and utter contempt for this president and his administration of thugs, bullies and racists.
This outrage cannot be defended be even the most ardent Trump supporter. Mr. Trump has asserted "I am the least racist" person. Least though, still has a enough left that Mr. Trump uses to justify his mission to purify America.
When will men and women of honor in the Republican Party stand up and declare that these abominable and reprehensible outrages come to an end?
Many of us well remember the scarifies and losses of the Vietnamese people who worked with American forces throughout the Vietnam War. We remember the boat people, the refugees, the orphaned children, the children of American soldiers and the citizens of South Vietnam who fought for freedom. Many of them came to America in good faith. We should honor that good faith even to those who weren't perfect.
Mr. Trump ignores history. He also ignores decency and respect for all those who made great sacrifices during the Vietnam War.
We, however, cannot ignore Mr. Trump. It's well past time to call for his accountability for his personal vindictiveness.
27
Trump's wide net xenophobia risks alienating a solid constituency of his party's base. Living in the bay area and working in San Jose I often talk politics with Vietnamese co-workers and friends. They tend to tilt strongly republican, dating back to Reagan's support of refugees fleeing the communist government after the war, and his perceived role in the fall of the soviet union. Many concede however that those boat people would not be allowed to come to the United States under Trump, that Reagan could never win the presidential nomination in today's GOP, and are appalled at Trump's fawning relationship to Vladimir Putin. The republicans are already losing younger Vietnamese, and deporting Vietnamese residents from the US back to socialist Vietnam is likely to push even older generations over the edge.
22
@Mike S Actually it's not Reagan but Ford. "Only Ford wants them" was the talk of the day.
3
It is too easy for people of color to get a felony in this country. Vietnamese and other South Asians have not had the easy entry into America that East Asians have had. Nonetheless, they are Americans. Deporting them is wrong.
11
Do felons normally get deported if they have a green card? If so, I don’t see how it’s any different. Vietnam today is nothing like Vietnam of decades ago. If we wanted there to be an exception for compassion it should be written into a law. Trump could have brought up the issue without just upending decades of tradition in handling these people. Sad.
8
The real felony was the war itself where alas there were no convictions except for low level Calleys following orders.
1
This is insanity. This is a kind of purge that turns the US into a Serbia bent on "cleansing". This is not who we are.
I hope the Dems add this to their agenda in the House.
4
This Administration's policy is cruel, immoral and unethical -- like much of what it does. Trump seems to be always "playing to his base;" let's see him apply the same policy to Cuban refugees that he applies to Vietnamese. Watch Florida turn blue and another well-worn GOP plank smashed.
2
Trump’s goal is to ensure the U.S. has no friends. America first is America alone.
3
Perhaps they could attempt to become citizens of Cuba and appeal to Senator Rubio and Senator Cruz to remain here indefinitely as all the Cuban refugees were allowed to do.
2
Cambodia has many deported refugees. Laos another communist country has people waiting to be deported. One would think that true refugees who came here because of a war (not to make more money) would have some sort of recompense, especially people who came here as kids and might not even speak the language.
1
The U.S. has more felons per capita than *any* other nation on Earth. This is why it needs to incarcerate a greater percentage of its' citizens than any other nation. These people are now getting punished for trying their best to fit in, to be American.
What's next from this 'administration" ?
Identifying these people by forcing them to wear a flag of the Republic of South Vietnam and then confining them to restricted zones ?
Please read Max Hastings' "Vietnam, an Epic Tragedy 1945-1975".
After the war crimes the US committed with impunity for over two decades in Vietnam, it is an affront to reason to deport a single individual from that country.
1
If Trump not bought his way out of three class action lawsuits filed against Trump "University" for fraud and racketeering (the evidence speaks for itself - he's as guilty as sin), then Trump himself would have been convicted of a felony.
3
While it's nice that Vietnamese got special treatment as opposed to other immigrants, it seems about time the law should apply to them the same as it does immigrants from other countries....While the writer and others may think we should allow immigrants to commit felonies without the threat of deportation, fortunately the law says otherwise... The possibility of govt recriminations against those deported 43 years after the war ended is low. Times have changed....
2
Have you no decency, Mr. Trump?
After World War II, there were millions of displaced persons so Congress passed an immigration law that made special accommodations to permit them to apply for permanent residency in America.
I don't understand why something wasn't done by Congress in the ten years since the agreement was signed by George Bush to protect them.
Aren't similar deportations and detentions occurring to Iraqis and Afghanis who helped American soldiers since those wars were started in 2012?
2
Robert Huynh, the son of an American soldier and a Vietnamese woman, was detained and faced deportation. In any other civilized country, Robert Huynh would have been given citizenship status and treated as a citizen. But the United States of America is not a civilized country and that's why Robert Huynh is facing deportation from a country of which his father was a citizen and to a country that he is considered culturally and racially an outcast.
12
It's a long time since 1995.
Are these refugees now US citizens?
And if they are not, why are they still refugees and not citizens?
Why are they "permanent residents" and not citizens?
As the op-ed states, it's been a long time. Why did none of the more progressive presidents since the end of the war not seek to ameliorate their status?
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@Joshua Schwartz
Have you thought of asking Mitch McConnell that question, or was he just too busy (like that time when he was filibustering legislation that he himself co-wrote since Obama had agreed to that legislation).
1
I suppose the administration's new practice pertains also to Cuban permanent residents who are convicted felons.
Alas it takes two to tango in deportation.
If there is no country willing to accept the deportees the US cannot deport them and the detention of the candidates in deportation facilities is without legal base. The practice will be challenged in court soon.
9
If this article is true, and I have no reason to see why it isn't, then the Trump administration is breaking yet another law and causing the suffering of hundreds or possibly thousands of Vietnamese refugees who had once committed a felony but paid their debt to society. While I understand that immigration is a very hot topic, this act is plain wrong. If anybody thinks this okay, then ask yourself why.
17
Trump is anti-immigrant. So is the GOP unless it benefits the right people. They have no problems with rich people emigrating here only the poor, the desperate, Muslims, anyone from Central America, anyone from the Middle East unless they are Israeli, and anyone who isn't white. I think that covers this administration's immigration policy.
7
So I know there are dozens of detainees. I would also like to know the crimes they were convicted of and the year they entered the US.
4
@M Davis, I would like to know also
(a) whether their crimes would have been considered violent felonies if commited by citizens,
(b) how long were their prison sentences by which they paid their debt to society, and
(c) do these indefinite detentions constitute unconstitutional double jeopardy.
7
@Lou Anne Leonard Here are my thoughts on your excellent questions.
(a) With 8,000 detainees, it would not be easy to determine just how many committed violent felonies due to the many state criminal statutes involved and lack of access to INS/Homeland Security files. In any case it would be moot. My understanding is that under our immigration law any felony, and not just a violent felony, is grounds for deportation. I suspect INS/Homeland Security does not keep track of whether the felony was violent
(b) That again would be a difficult task that would require reviewing the files in 8,000 criminal cases in numerous. It might not provide the information you are looking for. The great majority of the felony convictions probably were plea bargained. The answer is that state authorities thought the punishment fitted the crime or they would not have allowed the defendant to plea bargain.
(c) Double jeopardy a second trial for the same "crime" after a not guilty judgment in a prior trial is not involved. Violation of the felony statute is not the same "crime" as being out of status as a result of that felony conviction. My understanding is that deportation is a collateral consequence of a felony conviction just as the loss of voting rights is a collateral consequence of a felony conviction.
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Thank you, @OldBoatMan. ICE/INS has the records of what the detainees' criminal charges were, else they could not be detaining them now. Elsewhere (The Intercept perhaps? or Lawfareblog?) yesterday I read that sometimes legal residents are charged with violent crimes for the same acts that citizens would be charged with non-violent counts...something like the difference between aggravated DUI vs just plain DUI if memory serves.
Double jeopardy usually means double trial according to S.C. decisions, but it can also mean double punishment where punishment is seen as jeopardy of life or limb. Given the violations that have been reported in some of the ICE detention centers, and given what we know of the deleterious effects of 23-hour interminable solitary confinement, I think these victims if the current administration could make a fairly good case
May 1975 Harris poll, 49% oppose the 130,000 Indochinese fleeing the Indochina resettling in the US while 37% were in favor.
That the vast majority of these people were recruited to work for and fight for US interests mattered not.
Do you agree or disagree with decision of military court to convict Lt. William Calley and render life sentence?
Agree 7%
Disagree 78%
No opinion 15%
That the military court consisted of 5 officers out of 6 who commanded combat companies in Vietnam mattered not.
I am never surprised at any play to the fears of the "other" to the tribal base. Nothing from Steve Miller surprises me. I have seen it all and I suppose I will see it again.
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@George Cooper You forgot to mention that noone further up in the chain of command was held responsible for the
My Lai Massacre on March 16, 1968 killing hundreds of old men, women and children basically just rounded up and shot dead.
While it does not itself justify prolonged detention, it should be noted that a President signing an agreement does not make it law binding on future administrations. Trump is legally free to reinterpret it, violate it, or ignore it. His predecessor “reinterpreted” the constitution which is the fundamental law of the land, as well as statutory law.
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@KBronson Trump won't be "legally free" much longer!
However one may feel about the current deportation issue (and I can see and understand both sides of the discussion), I highly, VERY highly recommend watching Ken Burns's documentary of the Vietnam War.
If you're fortunate enough to subscribe to Netflix, it's there.
That documentary explores and exposes the war for what it was, and goes a long way toward understanding the rampant criminality that drove it through four American administrations.
10
Let's be clear: the Geneva Accords, signed by the US, that ended French domination of Vietnam said quite clearly that Vietnam was one country, not two, and the division into north and south was a temporary administrative measure. The notion that one country, "South Vietnam," a US ally was invaded by another country, "North Vietnam" was simply a lie, a fiction used to justify sending US servicemen and women to interfere in a civil war. Approximately 58,000 Americans and ten times that number of Vietnamese died for that lie; because of that lie hundreds of ancient villages were obliterated, and much of the country was deforested.
The plight of the refugees, people who had to flee because they fought for or associated with the US forces is definitely the responsibility of the US, and I absolutely oppose what this administration is doing to them, but let's not perpetuate the lie about why it's our responsibility.
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@Thomas
Thank you for correcting the inaccurate description of our Vietnam intervention propagated by this op-ed. As you say, their inaccuracy is irrelevant to the deportation question.
6
@Thomas That's not exactly true either. County boundaries change. Countries rise and fall. To the people of South Vietnam, South Vietnam is a country on its own rights. Since you are an expert on Vietnam country, where do you draw the line on the border? Before the southern expansion into Champa? Cambodia?
@Thomas: I knew South Vietnamese who wanted their country to be free of domination by the Communist Party.
Many had fled south to avoid living under the Communist regime in Hanoi. The lately deified LBJ saw fit to send about half a million troops there.
When I was stationed in South Vietnam I knew that we would soon leave that country and soon afterwards the US was forbidden from sending more US military aid.
I know you would rather they just quietly succumbed to the forces of North Vietnam.
In the end it was up to the South Vietnamese and they failed.
And LBJ appears on his way to deification by many liberals and progressives in this country.
But of all the reactions to the mention of South Vietnam, the ones I find the most amusing are when folks come charging forward saying "Hey, South Vietnam should have never existed, just watch Ken Burns!". Just write them off, it's the most convenient action to take.
As Trump’s own mother and two of his wives, were immigrants from other countries, it is very difficult to see these actions as anything but racist.
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Commit all the crimes you want. Just make sure you're a US Citizen when you do so.
Got it.
Sheesh, the Trump administration is scary.
13
@rds I've read elsewhere that Trump is stripping citizenship in order to deport.
Gotta keep the base well fed....
11
Will it never end? Cruelty and stubborn stupidity. Over and over again.
16
My bet is that the quintessentially, perpetually evil Stephen Miller is behind this, as well as behind the horrificically dehumanized southern border strategy.
Someone needs to stop this man: Evil Incarnate, thy name is Stephen Miller.
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@Atikin
I so wish Stephen Miller would end up in jail for crimes against humanity. He is, indeed, evil incarnate.
Trump hates non-whites. He doesn't care how he gets them to leave, only that they do. We all agree that our immigration system needs to be fixed, but Trump's message to deport all non-whites is not the correct fix.
14
I refuse to go numb.
What my government is doing here infuriates me.
26
Has the ACLU been contacted?
2
Nothing surprises me about this cruel, lawless and ignorant man. Our only hope is to unseat him in 2020, if not before then. Now the Asian-American community can join the black,
Latino, LTGB, women and other communities who are disgusted by him and the republicans who enable him.
23
More than four decades later, the rules change. Another example of America's long history of racism. Listen: If you aren't Native American, you're an immigrant.
9
@Denny NA Native Americans are also immigrants since they walked here from Eurasia.
This article gives little clue to what the true facts are. What types of felonies were committed? Murder? Kidnapping? Shooting someone with an illegally obtained gun?
Even if you were a stupid teenager, there are some crimes severe enough to warrant deportation. That is what the courts are for.
I did not vote for Trump and find many of his actions deplorable But I also cannot understand sanctuary cities and allowing all non citizen felons to stay in the country. Actions have consequences and if the actions were severe enough, so should be the consequences. .
8
@C WOlson, non-deportation in no way excuses crimes, which can be punished by jail time. In fact -- surprise! -- that's what jail time is for.
8
@Thomas Zaslavsky It is a privilege to be allowed to immigrate to this country, not a right. We do not need criminals nor those who can not support themselves. We already have enough criminals and drags on society of our own.
1
I guess the question is if you were punished for your crime, why is that not the end of it?
2
First, for those who ask why these people didn't become citizens is that you can not apply for citizenship if you have committed certain crimes. Second, the federal law on what is a deportable offense literally makes no sense. It includes not just felonies, but certain misdemeanors too, such as battery on a spouse and petty theft. Simple drug possession is deportable, as well as possession of an unregistered firearm. Criminal defense attorneys have to consult with immigration attorneys because the list is long and Byzantine. As a result, many people were misadvised, or not advised at all, about the immigration consequences arising from pleading guilty or no contest to a time served deal offered by the D.A.
9
These permanent residents have been convicted of crimes and have served their sentences.
What conceivable justification - legal justification - does the United States have for incarceration and deportation?
Scratch that. There isn't any. It's as violently illegal as any act can be. There isn't any more 'what's next'. This is the end. This administration is no longer remotely legitimate. Action against it is now required.
20
@GWPDA, the legal justification is in a law. The law has no necessary connection with decency, ethics, or morality. "The law is a ass." This law is despicable.
4
@Thomas Zaslavsky No, it prevents countries from dumping their criminals, insane and dregs on our shores for us to deal with. You know, like Castro did .
1
This is flying so low under the radar and I can't believe more people aren't outraged by this.
16
A cautionary tale for Afghans and Iraqis who consider providing translation, intel and other support to the American military in their countries in hopes of relocating to the U.S. We now offer former allies and their families a land of Kafkaesque double jeopardy.
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@Pam
Many of the Iraqis who helped us (that is, the U.S. political-military complex) can offer the same warning.
5
So let’s see. Our country goes to war in a country which was deemed one of the dominos which could not fall lest communism arrive on our shores. Then the war is micromanaged so poorly by our president and his cabinet that eventually the entire Chiefs of Staff of our armed forces threatened to resign.
Our military actions displaced tens of thousands of South Vietnamese in their own country by moving them into fortified hamlets to “protect” them from Vietcong and NVA activities.
As our nation grew sick and disgusted at the nearly 60,000 American lives lost on Vietnamese soil we left the country to fall to the NVA.
Who can forget the scenes of desperate South Vietnamese trying every way possible to flee certain death at the hands of their “liberators.” The line extending to the top of the American embassy trying to flee on helicopters. Scenes of planes and helicopters crash landing at sea next to our ships. And a massive boat lift. I certainly can’t.
The United States has always treated these refugees differently because our nations actions directly caused their plight.
The Vietnamese refugees have generally assimilated into our country and got on with life. One of the most inspiring persons in my life was one of those refugees.
And for our current president, lower case intended, to unilaterally decide to sweep aside decades of policy and law for a political moment makes me ashamed for our country. Our Nation is better than this. Our people are better than this.
29
@Michijim, what I don't understand (ethically) is why the same rule didn't apply to non-Vietnamese permanent residents. It's not as if the native-born (or naturalized) citizens are excessively good and law-abiding.
2
Are the authors a product of fake news?
The Vietnamese refugees they write of weren't allowed to come here out of compassion and weren't given special privileges out of compassion. They were paid off for cooperating with us when we joined their civil war, a civil war in which they were a minority alienated from their majority fellow citizens, impeding the will of that majority who wanted, above all, to unify their country. Rescuing criminals among the refugees is a remnant of that payoff, in which so many of the leaders of the refugees had been criminals before they left Vietnam and would continue to be both leaders and criminals after they arrived.
There was no Communist invasion; the only invasion was from the US and its allies. We fought against unification with unremitting savage destruction and uncounted crimes against humanity and nature. We owe compassion to the entire Vietnamese nation, because we forced it to endure decades more horror than it would have otherwise, horror which in the US still deny, horror which continues even today in substantial ways. We owe all of Vietnam compassion, not the criminals among the refugees.
10
>>> ". . . those who lost their homeland in the wake of the Communist invasion of the South, and the United States military intervention to resist it."
Umm . . . it is certainly reasonable to argue that the US owes a debt to Vietnamese who risked a great deal, including their lives, by supporting the US effort in Vietnam.
On the other hand, characterizing the US involvement in the war on Vietnam as a defensive response to an "invasion" is so inaccurate as to be utterly ridiculous -- and deeply offensive to all who prefer history to more or less represent reality.
In short, this blatant misrepresentation is an excellent example of what Neil Sheehan called, in the title to his masterful history of that shameful war, quoting the book's central character, A Bright Shining Lie.
Novelists, of course, are expected to write fiction. The people of Texas, however, should expect better research, and/or more honesty, from their publicly-supported academics.
12
I can only hope that the so-called president AND his unlawful acolytes, down to the very lowest GS level will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law,
And, since it is usual for the incoming president to pardon/extend immunity to the outgoing one, it seems fitting that a so-called president who ignores the common and usual behaviors should be denied this.
I so very much would like to see him and those who support him through their illegal actions held accountable.
8
Trump's governing 'lodestar' is cruelty: where he has the power to inflict suffering, he will. Immigration enforcement is a place he can go to efficiently stick pins in butterflies, and burn ants with a magnifying glass.
11
This administration is building an international, worldwide cohort of people that will hate us for generations. Quite a legacy.
27
The Vietnamese have always been a reliably Republican voting bloc in Southern California and elsewhere. Watch that change rapidly.
8
Perhaps the authors of this opinion piece should have read the details of the 2008 agreement, an article of which appeared here in the NYT: https://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/23/us/23immig.html
As clearly is shown, this was an agreement signed even before Trump became President. But that doesn't seem to deter Tang and Nguyen, who want to make Trump appear to be the one who orchestrated the removal of violent felons back to Vietnam. I am sure that the Vietnamese communities in the US, many of whom were victimized by these same felons, are not advocating for them not to be deported.
The problem lies, not with the deportation of criminal aliens back to their native country, but it is the same idiocy that has pervaded politics in the Vietnamese community: Any dialogue or agreement with the Communist government of Vietnam is forbidden and any one who dares violate this standard is labeled a communist sympathizer or worse.
2
@Mike Did you read the article you cited? "The agreement immediately affects about 1,500 Vietnamese immigrants who came to the United States after diplomatic relations with Vietnam were restored on July 12, 1995" The key phrase is "IMMIGRANTS WHO CAME TO THE UNITED STATES AFTER 1995".
7
Wait, what? Doesn't this practice amount to double jeopardy and isn't that unconstitutional? We need Trump to get gone asap primarily to get S. Miller out of the White House. There is no good reason for this unpardonable practice.
12
It appears we have a situation where this draft dodging president without an ounce of honor or even an excuse for a soul is reminding us we are also a nation without a soul.
8
Finally, someone is fighting for law-abiding Americans for a change and not foreign nationals who have committed a felony.
The safety of American communities should be a higher priority than foreign nationals who have committed a serious crime.
This is a no-brainer. Foreign nationals do not have a right to live in the US, especially felons.
4
To paraphrase the obvious: "you had one job - don't be a criminal"
You fail that basic element of American norms as a ubiquitous 'refugee' (is anyone from a foreign country that doesn't want to be bothered by making an actual legal application not a 'refugee') then you deserve to be deported.
4
Why? What is the problem here?
We are being held hostages by this almost certainly criminal enterprise, and they are now tossing precedent out of the equation... what’s next? Random interpretation of laws protecting US Citizens as the wannabe-but-clueless-“King” dishes on what his gut is telling him this moment?
It’s all so unreal...
3
"This exception tacitly acknowledged the weight of history: These refugees came here because American forces fought a devastating war in their home country, the Republic of Vietnam, or what Americans called South Vietnam." Lets assume that this norm (Not deporting Vietnamese criminals) is true - why woukd it be related, tacitly or otherwise, to the fact that the United States sent its sons and daughters to fight for South Vietnam 50 years ago? The Vietnamese refugees in America, more than others, know that the Communist aggressors in Asia were evil. Out prosecution of the war was flawed, but anyone who has read about or experienced Communism - from Russia to Cuba to Venezuela to Vietnam (and China and Korea) knows it was evil, and the lingering effects are terrible. The Vietnam refugees would surely not say that America doing its human best to keep Vietnam free didnt incur any debt or guilt to the US. Quite the contrary.
4
It appears the concept of double jeopardy does not apply if one is not an American citizen, prior rulings by previous administrations notwithstanding.
It is only a matter of time before Trump & Minions decide that even citizens can be stripped of that right. They are working on that now. On deck, the loss of citizenship, regardless of how one became a citizen, or the child of a citizen, going back for generations. If one is the descendant of slaves, their citizenship may be called to question.
17
Our Ancestry family trees will make easy pickins' for uprooting by those who would purify the stock. Never mind all that sciencey talk of hybrid vigor and the benefits from depth of genetic diversity--of which BTW Africa possesses greatly more than any other land. Fuggedaboudit!
Well, if these people had become citizens instead of permanent residents, they wouldn't be able to be deported. Permanent residents know that because of their status if they are convicted of serious crimes they can be deported. So they committed serious crimes and now it's Trump's fault for them getting the boot? I don't think so.
16
@Kurt Pickard Yes it appears that you ended up with the right conclusion. Indeed, it is individual 1 's fault that do those policies (I thought you knew that Trump is potus).
1
Their conviction precludes citizenship.
3
I have been in the US for a bit less than 40 years. I was educated here and have had the opportunity to thrive. I have not heard about this particular issue before, but this behavior is on par with everything else that has happened the past 2 years. This administration presents a portion of society with a very harsh view of right and wrong without any consideration for history. In their mind a permanent resident with a felony can be deported by law, and so he shall. You try to explain how life is not so black and white and they come back with- they already had a chance, they should not have a second chance. Frankly, I have stopped trying to explain myself as I cannot change any minds. I think it is more important for the media to document the administration's bad (cruel, inhumane, counter-productive) behavior instead of reporting on the latest tweet.
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@Jeff
Unfortunately, if it is not reported on our state-run television station, it didn't happen. That's the bigger problem. Trump supporters only watch FOX, which has done more than Trump to divide the country. Even if FOX did report Trump's bad behavior, the standards for a large portion of Americans are in the gutter, and they just don't care.
9
If we can only be patient, depending on what Marine hero Mueller finds, Trump may be facing long-term detention as a means of punishing him after his immediate removal from office.
Hasn't Trump ever heard, "What goes around comes around?"
47
@Linda
With any luck, Stephen Miller as well as all the Trumps will meet up with these folks in the same prison one day, and Trump & Co can explain themselves to these detainees then. Should be very informative.
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I am a refugee (now citizen) originally from Vietnam but I don't necessarily oppose this policy, given a few caveats. For one thing, from the time we were 6-7 years old, we were taught not to engage in criminal activity, both because it was the right thing to do and -- as my Mom explicitly told us -- it could delay or obstruct any chances of us becoming permanent US residents or citizens. Mom did not have any legal training but she sensed as a "guest" of the US, the least she could do was to obey the laws. So yes, one can argue they were young, perhaps they had poor legal representation, they were originally shielded by prior laws, etc. but at its base, refugees should realize these are all excuses to some degree. If you are a guest of country, you obey the laws or risk not just imprisonment but deportation.
Another question this column does not answer: why did the people in these position not apply for citizenship in the intervening years to decades they weren't in jail? Were there laws preventing them from doing so? Again, my parents made good and sure they applied for citizenship as soon as they were able. They wanted to secure their place in this country.
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@ms Yes, there are laws. Murder and aggravated felonies will keep a resident from becoming a citizen.
However, many crimes often classified as misdemeanors for citizens are considered an aggravated felony when committed by a permanent resident.
For example, any crime of violence, or theft or burglary that resulted in a prison term of one year or more will be considered an aggravated felony. Resisting arrest has been found to be a crime of violence for residents. Even driving while under the influence of alcohol is sometimes considered a crime of violence, particularly if it involves reckless or intentional behavior.
Another question. Where is The Republic of Vietnam from which these people came?
Lastly, if one is taught to not break the law, how can one support breaking a binding treaty between two sovereign nations?
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@David F
I believe the "crime" called "resisting arrest", actually often just an add-on at police discretion to strengthen a weak case, is always considered "violent" even when all the violence is by the police and it's video recorded.
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@David F, you raised a couple of good points in the last paragraphs. But Trump was never taught not to break the law. I believe we have evidence this is literally true.
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The only trhing worse than Trump's policies is Trump himself. He wants a country of white's only with no consideration or support of anyone without that color of skin. His selections for major posts and judgeships are clear, white evidence of his racism.
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Every time I think that Trump has sunk to the lowest of depths, he continues plumb even lower. This being has not one drop of the milk of human kindness in him.
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