What a mean-spirited column! In a week of damning disclosures about trump and Russia, disclosures that might destroy trump’s Presidency, Ms. Dowd decides to distract us with some alternative facts about how she is feeling and by projecting some of djt’s sins onto the Clintons.
“I’m feeling sorry for the Clintons” Perhaps the most insincere words you’ve ever written about them!
“…large swaths of empty seats — and I cringe at the thought that the Clintons will look out and see that, too.” ~ Is this the truth Ms. Dowd? My guess is you feel elated, a wicked glee about it.
“blithely unconcerned with any appearance of avarice or of shady special interests and foreign countries buying influence.” ~ Doesn’t this better describe trump and his gang?
“Her consigliere, Philippe Reines…” ~ Consigliere, an adviser, especially to a crime boss, is a cheap shot better aimed at the con don.
All in all, a scathing, bitter and unnecessary op-ed.
1214
@Mary Ann Donahue She was reporting on an even that she attended. Whether the event were a month ago or a month from now, she would have written the exact same column She should not feel compelled to "time" the column based on the events of the moment.
45
@Mary Ann Donahue
If you pay $177 to see a show, you also buy the right to say what you saw, and what you think of it.
21
Instead of 'gone but not forgotten', the Clintons have become, to quote Groucho Marx 'forgotten but not gone'.
183
Stubhub has Hillary tickets available for this Tuesday in Houston for less than 10 bucks.
The market has truly spoken.
119
Maureen Dowd has excelled herself in her last two Sunday columns. As for the Clintons, they are both well past their prime. It will be a tragedy for this country if Hillary decides to clog up the 2020 Democratic Party nomination process by running again. Or worse, a disaster. Let us pray that her advisers are able to convince her to step aside and fade quietly into the shadows.
164
I read about the Clintons ongoing celebration of self and then two words come to mind. Jimmy Carter
111
Dowd continues to talk about Clintons. She should be talking about Trump! She virtually sounds like Trump and his acolytes.
None of us are interested in the Clintons. Trump is our problem
195
Unfortunately, the true scandals of the Clinton years were nicely ignored and covered up by the mainstream media: The transfer of ballistic missile mid-course correction technology to China - in exchange for campaign contributions from Loral Space and from perhaps even China. The other scandal was presiding over the brainless actions America took after the collapse of the USSR on December 25, 1991 (a Christmas gift of providential import). Instead of embracing a democratizing Russia and helping their collapsed economy recover from communism (a la the Marshal Plan) Clinton expanded NATO (against whom? Russians would ask) and bombed fellow Slav, co-religionist Serbia for 78 days - driving Russia's Putin to power where he sits to this day. Clinton's legacy will haunt America for generations - may we survive it. Arguably, the Monica scandal may have been just a red herring.
62
It was the same thing during the election. They had to keep her out of sight or her poll numbers would go down. The one time they did shove her out there, she collapsed in front of the whole world.
50
If Hillary runs for President in 2020, my days as a card-carrying Democrat are over. That's not because I have anything personally against the woman.
It's just that anyone who inspires that much fury in the other side has no chance of winning a national election. Let's not forget: Three weeks before voters went to the polls, at least half of our fellow Americans were willing to swallow the tallest tale in the history of politics.
Whether it was ultimately hatched and commandeered by Putin himself (with an enormous assist from Facebook) enough people believed that Clinton and Podesta were running an underground sex ring out of a pizza parlor to cost her (and our beloved country) the election.
Then, of course, was the fact that trolls and 'bots had so infected social media by that time with so much utter nonsense that maybe millions of otherwise responsible adults threw up their hands in disgust and self-righteously proclaimed, "I can't even vote this time around! I refuse to have to separate fact from fiction on my own and choose the lesser of two evils."
To all those who decided to switch off their brains and stay home in 2016:
How's that workin' out for you now?
78
Wow! Dowd nailed it!
83
I agree that it’s time for the Clintons to let go. But it’s also time for Dowd to let go of the Clintons.
246
Just why is it a pity?
18
The only thing that remains for the Clinton's is for Hillary to be indicted, found guilty and be thrown in jail. If any run of the mill US citizen had done any of the things she has done, they would be in jail for 20 years. They are thieves, pathological liars. Hillary is much worse than Bill -she thinks she can say whatever she wants to any crowd and people will just fawn all over her words. Never did speak well. Hillary belongs in jail for email scandal, Benghazi, lying, destroying evidence, Phony dossier, Whitewater, etc.
59
Next event the Clintons should ask Madonna to join them. Who cares.
26
Excellent Mo . . . you have been on a roll.
After HRC left the State Department, which I bet is a decision Obama wishes he had back, she went on to rake in $20 million receiving bribes disguised as speaking fees. She never decided if she wanted to be president, or get richer. She thought she could done both because she felt she was entitled to the presidency. Greed is one of the 7 deadly sins and it overtook her.
The site of her and Bill at Trumps third wedding still makes me want to puke. Money will never be able to buy style and class. The Obama's have it in spades. Trump and the Clinton's never had it and never will.
55
“'What scares me the most is Hillary’s smug certainty of her own virtue as she has become greedy and how typical that is of so many chic liberals who seem unaware of their own greed,” Charlie Peters, the legendary liberal former editor of The Washington Monthly, told me.'"
This smug certainty was clearly displayed during the televised presidential debate when she responded to a challenge about soliciting these near-million dollar speaking fees from Wall Street by doubling down, boasting of the billions in taxpayer money she gave to her Wall Street friends to rebuild after the 9/11 attack, implying something patriotic in her avarice, and impugning her questioner as somehow in league with Al Quada. A truly revealing performance.
57
I've paid thousands of dollars over the decades to see The Stones, The Dead, The Clash and so many others. Many were priceless.
For the life of me, I can't imagine giving a penny to sit through any lecture or speaking tour.
I sat through enough dull college lectures to last me a lifetime!
43
Bob Dole had a successful, but slightly pathetic afterlife following his Presidential election defeat as a Viagra spokesperson. Kerry and Romney remained in politics at a lower level. Dukakis successfully taught at a college level. Hillary needs to take a hint and find something else to do other than politics. It's not happening for her. Politicians are not like a fine wine after multiple Presidential losses, they don't age well.
59
At the risk of becoming redundant: Hillary? 2020? No! This is like a drug habit that some people (including the Clintons) just can't kick. Its an addiction. Altogether now: "Just Say No!"
68
She LOST to DJT. Let that sink in. She has in tow in this #metoo era a credibly accused rapist and flying pal of a “convicted child predator” on the Lolita Express. How does anyone give this duo a pass any longer.
IF any Dem would be honest with themselves it was blatantly clear during the 2016 campaign that Hilary is in failing health and is well past her sell by date.
ALL Dems would be wise to move on from them as quickly and quietly as possible. They are only liabilities at this point and have the appearance and stench of has-beens playing in smoke-filled lounges in Peoria.
She LOST to DJT! And no Boris and Natasha did not cost her the election. She was and will always be a horrible candidate/politician.
74
Ms. Dowd, perhaps you might consider writing a column about the Clinton Foundation which has helped and saved the lives of millions of people around the world. It would be a stretch for you but it would be edifying for your readers.
143
"What is the point? It’s not inspirational. It’s not for charity. They’re not raising awareness about a cause, like Al Gore with global warming. They’re only raising awareness about the Clintons." One has to ask Ms. Dowd the same question, why does she keep writing articles like this that aren't in the least bit interesting. It is a pity.
88
I whole-heartedly wanted her as our president and for what ever reason it did not happen. I hope she doesn't run again. I want to see Kamala Harris as President and Beto as VP. with that said it seems only their greed is always highlighted. Didn't Cheney make out like a fat rat over the Iraq war? where are the articles highlighting his greed? How many people has trump made rich off of the ridiculous immigration tactics? Weren't the Bush families making money from middle eastern oil ventures? BeBest
68
Please write a similar piece about Bernie Sanders.
82
That's a Pultzer-worthy column. Somebody needed to go to the event and experience it. Somebody needs to do a column on how much money she has available and where it came from. How much of her resources did she spend on the 2018 elections? She (and Biden, unfortunately) need to go gracefully into the cool night. (Though Biden or an Obama would be an outstanding VP candidate. How about a column on that?)
23
Wow! So refreshing to see the N Y Times finally telling it straight about the Clinton's. The most despicable trough feeders in American history. I can well understand how former supporters feel sorry for these people but they deserve the ending of their influence for being so blatantly unaware of how despicable they became. If she attempts to run again for president she will get slaughtered,And justly so.
48
Where were you in 2016 writing about HRC for President?
What scares me more is that their daughter may feel the same way as her Mom and Dad...entitled with a $240 million war chest.
40
The Clintons have not changed. Apparently Maureen Dowd has finally become aware of what they have always been about - themselves and money.
As we mourn the passing of a great American president the contrast in character between George H.W. Bush and the Clintons is stunning.
31
I agree with Ms. Dowd's analysis, but for different reasons.
1. Bill Clinton's speech remained one of a hick Arkansas politician that has not been cured by Yale.
2. Hillary Clinton showed pseudo-Christian submissiveness during the revelation of her husband's sexual shenanigans in the White House. The voters would have valued her more, had she demonstrated the presence of a strong backbone by locking Bill out of the White House and creating a little Constitutional crisis in the process.
15
Maureen is trotting out her tired old Clinton tropes, as if they were singlehandedly the cause of the decline of democracy and morality in our time. Please. She really needs to get out of her Washington-New York bubble and find out what concerns real people. For starters she might consider rampant criminality in the Executive Branch, erosion of democratic institutions through voter suppression and the decline of the U.S.'s standing in the world. Get over the celebrity stalking.
95
In scanning the comments I haven't seen any mention that there are credible allegations that Mr Clinton raped a women earlier in his career. If we on the left are going to complain about Mr. trump's behavior we have look at ourselves straight in the mirror. The Clintons are getting the attention currently that they deserve.
28
Even as the Clintons were beset by a 'vast rw GOP conspiracy, they also collaborated (colluded?) with the GOP and big money.
They were always 'ethically challenged'. They look good only compared to Trump and rw GOP fanatics. It's been a snow job.
Bill Clinton colluded with the corporate- subsidized GOP to repeal sensible generations- old bank regulations that had prevented big crashes since the '30s.
He also repealed sensible and important anti monopoly laws for the media, on the books for decades. This unleashed the expansion of the FOX FAKE NEWS monopoly that's now the dispenser of daily lies for GOP/Trump. FOX put the rest of the media on the defensive.
Bill expanded the prisons and ended welfare as we knew it----thus expanding poverty. Some of his people quit over this.
And only now are remedies being discussed for our vast, biased, extreme prison system.
Hillary said we 'would never, ever have single payer health care'. End of debate. This is how norms are set, by a supposed liberal Dem.
They're way better than Trump and most Reppubs. This is the new "American Dilemma".
20
Run Hillary, run in 2020. #ImWithHer
She won the 2016 popular vote & but for Russian interference & possibly Trump’s collusion rigging the EC, she would be in WH today.
There is no one more qualified to be President than Hillary Rodham Clinton.
34
The Clintons are what they are, and history is history. I never quite figured out the vitriol. But I know the vitriol was effectively exploited by the Republicans, and ultimately by another great Hillary hater, Vladimir Putin. As far as Hillary being a candidate for President in 2020, she has as much right as anyone to throw her hat in the ring. Unfortunately, due to history, her name sits on a tinder box of carefully built negative emotions that could be set-off with the flick of a Bic (that's a little plastic throw-away cigarette lighter for those who don't know).
39
I don't like Bill/Hillary but I would have preferred their dealing and stealing over that of Trump.
30
The Clinton’s are past their “use by” date. They represent the past Democratic Party. On to the “New” Democratic Party.
24
Save your pity for people who need it. The Clintons need to GO AWAY.
36
She is like an aging QB who continues miss receivers and gets sacked because she cannot scramble fast enough. Her star power has waned and it is time to hang up the donkey shoes and step aside for the new rookies. Take a seat on the bench and help mentor the new stars.
26
I fully expect the Clintons to be playing county fairs with Eric Burdon and the animals next year.
14
It’s not a pity. The Clinton’s have long represented the worst of Neo Liberalism. Posing as “progressives” while introducing mass incarceration, sanctions against Iraq which resulted in dyssentary which killed 500,000 Iraqis mostly children ( the banned chemicals used to purify drinking water), and supporting war in Iraq And Libya.
Good riddance to political opportunists, entitled elitists and war mongerers. They are also seriously deluded to think Hilary would
have a snowballs chance in hell to be nominated again.
Hilary is part of the reason we have this monstrous Fascist Trump
regime in power.
M
29
What's the point, Maureen? Pile on the Clinton's one more time? Please, its been done before, and before, and before that too. Fox News comes close to libeling one or the other of the Clintons at least fourteen times a day, and that's on a slow day. OK, so you and others think the Clintons are greedy, so what, a lot of so-called Christian televangelists are greedy by your definition. You know the type I'm talking about; the nipped, plucked, sucked and tucked variety like Kenneth Copeland, net worth $760 million. Are the Clintons more reprehensible than my all-time favorites, Jim, and the late Tammy Faye Bakker? I doubt the Clintons consider themselves "role models" for millennials in the way that say, Donald Trump does. And, in closing, if it truly is, "Curtains for the Clintons" as your title suggests...so what?
38
Moving past the deserving duo is not a pity, it is a necessity.
13
EGO.
Democrats don't want them, but Fox News does. She was such a bad politician that Republicans still score points by bringing her up. The only ego more dangerous is Senator Sanders, who would split enough votes from the Democratic nominee with a third party run to keep Trump in office.
23
This would be a better column if it focused on truly evil people who have really injured Americans like Mitch McConnell and Orin Hatch, Grassley and Lamar Alexander
They are not doing their job
They allow corporations to pollute and poison is with their dumping or their products
They allow their donors to profit at the expense of maintaining and investing in our country and putting good people to work
70
Quite a plummet for you from last week's beautiful thoughtful piece.
23
Spot on! HRC was a tarnished candidate because of her greed (which is not a plus on the left. It has become on the right, though).
Now she's damaging the Democratic party further by refusing to go and keeping the wounds inflicted by her tribe from healing over.
And I cannot agree more with that it looks like the Obamas are following the Clintons down the same dirt road: Milking their former public office for all it's worth. Proudly putting their greed on display as if their last name were Trump...
23
Well, if it means anything that the Clintons are not packing in the crowds across the border in Canada during the holidays, I will throw out there that when my husband and I moved to Colorado in the early 90s from Chicago, we picked up tickets to see Bob Dylan for 12 bucks apiece. At the State Fair in Pueblo in the rodeo arena. Headlining alongside prize-winning livestock and canned goods and local art. I don't know what that means about Bob Dylan either.
I guess I don't care what the Clintons are doing with their free time, their over-active booking agent or the disgusted journalist orbiting them. I just want Trump nailed for Christmas.
49
I sincerely hope that neither Hillary nor Biden runs. We appreciate your services but please retire.
I also hope that Bloomberg doesn't run. Please stick to making money or spending it.
22
Perhaps they should have opened their appearance in Toronto with performances by Jay-Z and Beyonce and Bon Jovi. I remember reading about how HRC opened a rally with Jay-Z and Beyonce in Cleveland, OH, shortly before the 2016 election, in which most in attendance split after Jay-Z and Beyonce performed. I believe the handwriting was on the wall then signaling the end of the Clintons, at least HRC. Ohio, a state of hard working class folks, voted for Donald J. Trump over HRC, as did the other states that counted. Hillary took the coastal elites, but they don't truly represent America. Thank you.
11
The opposite of love isn’t hate. It’s indifference.
8
Maureen Dowd, I'm still surprised that you are harping on Hillary Clinton, as you did during the 2016 election.
Are you happy that the Dotard Trump was elected president even though he had several million fewer votes that Hillary? Are you happy with the way he is "governing" the country? Self-dealing, corruption, and destruction? And he may be on his way to driving the country into another recession with his from the gut trade policies. He declared bankruptcy SIX times before he became president. The coming recession may be his SEVENTH!
How about focusing on the Dotard and not the person who lost?
71
I am a 70-year-old lifelong, Centrist Democrat and my plea to the Clintons is:
Please stop talking in public and just ..... go away. No personal offense but your time in the sun is over.
I cannot think of a worse scenario for us Democrats in 2020 than having Hilary Clinton on the ballot. I cringe just thinking about it.
36
If only Trump would lock her up, that might keep her away from the 2020 campaign trail. Nothing less, apparently, will work.
15
This makes me want to buy a single digit ticket, revel in the half empty auditorium and then walk out half way through the event.
18
Welcome to the life of the older woman, Mrs. Clinton. The empty seats that used to be filled with eager audiences stretch in every direction, the black curtains surround an ever shrinking space. Heaven help you if have not cultivated something deeper in your life take you through to the end of it.
14
Anyone old enough to remember Harold Stassen or Adlai Stevenson?
8
The Clintons are like the guest that does not know it’s time to leave the party. HRC has had 2 bites at the apple. There is no rational reason to give her a third. What people are seeing is the their true grifter nature that many of us have known for years. Chelsea Clinton grew lived a privileged childhood and has neither the political ambition or charisma of either parent. It is truly the end of the road for them. Their relevance and power is all but gone.
24
Don't blame Hillary for Trump. It was the ridiculous Democratic party's machine that ran her and didn't listen to us former Democrats (now independent) that we just didn't want her. Though I voted for her only to prevent Trump, the Wednesday morning afterwards my thought was, At least she's not president. Blame the Democrats for Trump. They should have gone with Bernie. I sure hope they wake up and all get behind Elizabeth Warren who is really all about helping the little guy and making America great and moral.
26
I fail to see why earning money is a sin when the Clintons do it. Someone wants to pay them, why should they walk away from the money. I also fail to see why Monica L. is sympathetic. I was once a girl in my twenties and I could never imagine getting into an affair with my married boss. The public is fickle and we tend not to like losers, but trump should be reviled way more than the Clintons. Hilary would be a much better president than trump, she certainly was a much better candidate.
44
Why in the name of God are we not asking ourselves, "How come we still use the Electoral College?" Twice this century we have awarded the Presidency to the loser of the election, the last time awarding it to a man who was literally TROUNCED in the popular vote. Hard to justify going away when you feel cheated.
41
They wanted money; they have money. Why would/do they want votes too? Beats me!
10
The Clintons are of a past generation which had their day and for whatever can’t seem to graciously pass the torch. Once harbingers of change they have now made themselves obstacles to it. It’s tragic.
13
If I had been an adviser to HRC, it would have been an easy call to dump the foundation and the Wall Street speeches. This current speech circuit has been sickening from the start, please Clinton's, stop doing harm to seek your throne and line your pockets.
5
Great column -- one of the reasons why I subscribe!
11
Rather than knock the Clintons, again, why not look at the numbers of the popular vote which Hillary Clinton won. Democrats needed to work harder to repair the voting system all across the US, after Al Gore's loss of the Florida vote count. The national party and the state and local party leaders failed to organize and focus on the process. So, we beat up on Hillary and Al which is easier than doing the hard work. And I, for one, did not see the Democrats come together to support Hillary. Bernie held on too long and should have left the field. President Obama, contrary to comments below, did little during his eight years to "grow" the party in every district in the country. The Clintons could sit on an island and read, go to dinner with other wealthy executives and make a fortune serving on boards peddling influence. Frankly, the payment from Goldman was cheap to pay for the brains and analysis of two people who understand the complexities of this world and still want to help people. Do I like everything they do to make money-no? Do I like the present alternative-no? "But who you gonna call?" Stacey Abrams lost in Georgia because we didn't do our homework. Hillary lost because we didn't do our homework. Al Gore lost because we didn't have a strategy in place for dirty tricks. Stop beating up on Hillary and get out and work the chicken dinner circuit in your district!
607
This reminds me a bit of ‘piling on’ in football. Let the Clinton family go.....they look tawdry taking money to speak or for their foundation but at this point nobody should reasonably expect a quid pro quo given where they are in life. Does it bother me they are cashing in on their time in power? Sure, but it’s legal and they aren’t the first to do so and won’t be the last.
Keep your focus on the current WH resident, there is plenty of reporting to do on his past and ongoing efforts to direct the gaze of the press in other directions, You could even hang around the lobby of his DC hotel to see who is in town and currying favor.
338
So it doesn't bother you that Trump conspired with a foreign power to steal the election from Hillary? For all her faults and there are many, she would have been the better choice to sit in the oval office. Our country would not be embroiled in the day to day outrages and chaos delivered by the unstable man now President. As for the money, as long as Citizen's United permits wealthy donors to flood our politics with cash, politicians have no choice to play the game as the Clintons have. We need reform and why aren't you writing columns about that instead of taking cheap shots at your eternal targets, Hillary and Bill?
48
What is the point of this take down piece? You might as well have used Trump’s mantra about his margin of victory in the Electoral College to bludgeon them more thoroughly.
35
What most democrats can not still fathom is that Hillary made Trump the better option. Then Trump goes out does exactly what he said he would do. lower taxes and expand the economy, enforce existing laws on immigration and reset the imbalance on trade. All under the auspices of a “vast conspiracy” (paraphrase Hillary) of Russian collusion.
18
Bill Clinton was a good president. Hillary Clinton was a good Senator and Secretary of State and would have made a better president than the current occupant of the White House. What is the point of this op-ed? What does it matter how much or how little Mr. and Mrs Clinton are making on the speaker's circuit? Neither one of them are in office.
44
"Their pathological need to be relevant in America is belied by a Canadian arena, where stretches of empty seats bear witness to the passing of their relevance.
It’s a pity."
Or, perhaps not.
12
Well, one can at least hope that the ticket scalpers, who have taken over the ticket-selling industry, got badly burned. If so, the Clintons would have been successful at something the rest of the government doesn’t seem willing to tackle. And as for Bill, he was a very good president, and so what if he had groupies? He took student loans out of private hands, and he and Al Gore left the country with a surplus, just to have it squandered by Republicans. Isn’t it ironic, don’t yuh think?
8
This pitiful tour for no apparent reason will serve it's purpose even if it isn't the one they desire, cold hard cash.
Even they can't ignore the empty seats and complete lack of interest. Commenters can whine all they want about the 2016 results but the fact is she lost to the worst candidate in American history. Even he couldn't believe it.
Time to take your money and go home. Well past time.
7
Which comes first? Narcissism or political ambition? There appears to be significant psychological pathologies among many politicians. For those without a strong moral system of belief, politics seems to be profoundly corrupting. Something like Gollum slavering after his "precious".
10
“It’s a pity.”
Pity hardly!
Its comeuppance and fully deserved.
Surely one of the greatest graces is knowing how to end gracefully. But then Bill and Hillary have managed to parlay their political lives into so much wealth; the compulsion to ride that horse into the ground must be overwhelming.
As for Hillary in 2020, please spare the Democratic Party and America that offensive and destructive burden.
16
Full disclosure -- I voted for Bernie in the primaries, to make a point, and Hilary in the election. I admire Hilary for her brains and competence, as a leading feminist, and think she would have in many ways been an excellent president.
However her lack of any mea culpa regarding the election debacle, while not surprising, is disappointing. Imagine the utopic world in which HRC (who, yes, was extremely disappointed) took some responsibility as a lead player in this sad show:
"Sorry, America, I really let you down. After playing every trick in the book securing my nomination over Bernie Sanders, (because I was determined it was my turn no matter what), I underestimated my laughably incompetent and ignorant opponent, further alienated the blue collar swing votes, overestimated my lead, and did nothing to assuage the impression, unfair as it may be, that I was still the irritatingly smug brownnoser of the class. Oh yes and that I myself betrayed my own lifelong dream of becoming the first female president by giving speeches for six figures at elitist banks heading into campaign time, sure that bad optics didn't apply to me. I got dealt some bad cards in this election with the Comey reveal and the Russian interference, but I see my own arrogant blindness has been a large factor in the election outcome, and for that I owe our country and its citizens an apology. Please forgive me."
That would be someone I might want to see in the 2020 primaries.
Try not to die laughing.
21
Maureen, they were speaking in Toronto, Canada not the United States; I'm not sure I would expect any ex-President or candidate to have a full large arena.
How many people do you think would fill an arena in the United States to see and hear Justin Trudeau?
19
They say the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
In 2008, HRC lost the nomination to a junior senator from Illinois whose only prior claim to fame was that he gave a good speech and the 2004 DNC.
In 2016, she lost the electoral college to literally the worst, most unfit human being to ever become president.
Why on earth do the Clintons think 2020 would be different? And haven’t they had their chance?
14
I would say to Ms. Dowd, if you garner such disdain for the Clintons, then just give it a rest.
Like it or not, the Clinton Presidency was the last one to have a surplus instead of a deficit when leaving office. Hillary was not only first lady, but Senator and Secretary of State, both accomplished positions in government.
It is not the Clintons who are making a mockery of the office of President of the U.S. If Ms. Dowd is looking for someone to chastise, the obvious target has to be Trump.
For my money, I wish Hillary would have won the election.
34
She is hands down the front-runner to win the nomination in 2020. That “mosaic” of new faces seems attractive because everyone likes somebody else better. It was the same with Trump. He was the majority’s 2nd to last choice (of course, those who tout the meaningless measure of the popular vote, will remind me how California produced a 3mm vote difference, thanks to their jungle primary system which keeps Republicans at home for general elections). Never mind - you need the Midwest. And Georgia, Texas and Arizona are not suddenly turning purple.
Folks like Dowd May struggle coming to grips with this analogy, but Hillary is this election cycle’s Trump. She may even adopt some of his tendencies like speaking her mind (assuming that’s what was happening in Europe, scolding them about their immigration policies).
She is also the best chance for a Democrat to return to the WH. Dowd may struggle with that as well. The gauntlet for the Dem nomination will otherwise require someone to position themselves so far outside the mainstream, they’ll fail to break the Trump coalition.
7
It's bizarre that so many commenters are telling Hillary what to do. As is the columnist.
Does Hillary tell you what to do? Then what do you care what she does? If she were to win the nomination in 2020, that means that a vast number of people want her to be President. If she doesn't, that means a vast number of people want someone else to win. Why knock her down? If Democrats don't want her as a candidate, she won't be the candidate. Methinks Maureen and others protest too much.
20
Hillary Clinton was a flawed candidate who was popularly elected but not inaugurated due to a badly run anointing and campaign, an antiquated electoral college, American gerrymandering and other machinations and Russian hacking. But fairly or not, she lost. And Bill Clinton has been out of office for 18 years. They served us very well overall, but now it's time for them to exit gracefully. Every new speech besmirches their once elevated reputations, especially hers. Enough already; I voted for her in 2016, but that was by default and I wouldn't do that again in a 2020 primary she can't win. Thank you for your service, Clintons; now, please leave. To paraphrase Firesign Theatre's famous line, it is time for them both to "exit left to Funway."
7
They don't have to fade into obscurity; they could choose a cause and throw all their resources toward solving one or two of our planet's worst problems.
I wish Hillary is our president rather than that man-child trump but she's not and she never will be. That ship has sailed.
It takes grace to move on. Show us what you got.
I would have more respect for the Clintons if they'd follow the path of their Democratic predecessor President Jimmy Carter. He's given the best example of what to do after being President for the greater good of humanity than any other president, I think. He's been modest, it hasn't all been about him. He's worked behind the scenes, not needing arenas of adoring fans.
Instead the Clintons have behaved like Democratic "mini-me's" of Trump. Little wonder the 2016 election was between two of the most despised candidates at the same time possible. Hillary took two shots at the brass ring and lost. Get over it. If the Democratic party is to become a successfully ascendant balance to the GOP hegemony, best that the old guard leadership retire quietly into the sunset, and let the next generation make their mark. This goes for Ms. Pelosi too.
The wheel of time has turned and as the time of the Clintons draws to a close, whether they go with dignity or gasping for that last glitter of Mammon's offering is their choice. History will judge accordingly. Or maybe they simply don't give a, well, you know.
10
It's worse than a pity. Hillary Clinton made some kind of deal with the Democratic party, that after Obama it would be "her turn" to be President. She got Secretary of State in exchange for Bill Clinton's support. Hillary's deal kept an entire generation of young Democratic politicians out of the race for the Presidency. In 2016 there were few or no rising young stars.
You need magic to win the Presidency. Hillary has no magic. She has lost twice and we need someone who can steal votes from Republicans, not claim ownership of those who already vote Democratic.
11
Not really a pity. They had their opportunities. As with everyone, some things do not turn out the way one hopes and plans. The Clintons should just go home and enjoy a new chapter in their lives. It is the patriotic thing to do. Democrats must not take Hillary seriously and discourage her from running for president. Otherwise disaster looms again for America.
5
I've never even had a nightmare dream about voting for a republican but if Clinton runs for President again, I'd vote for virtually Any republican, including Trump...or not vote at all.
11
If the Clintons were not touring, democracy reform advocates should insist that they do. They represent the failure of the neo-liberal takeover of the Democratic Party in the late 1980s and highlight how a once great force for workers became just another corporate shill.
Meanwhile, Trump is the grand symbol of how corrupt and devoid of principles the Republican Party became over more than 4 decades. Put another way, the Clintons serve the same function for the Democrats.
We need both Trump and the Clinton's front and center because they are unwittingly making the case for real political reform that no one else could do so convincingly.
3
Hillary is the face of "...the complicity of what’s happened to the world, .... and causing this resentment that the Republicans found a way of tapping into.”
Talk of her pursuing the nomination in 2020 is to hand Trump a second term.
Hillary - go home. Spend some time with the grandchildren...
9
Glad Obama is now recognizing that he profoundly misread the public. He should have backed Bernie.
18
Thank you, Maureen. The Clintons have been the worst thing that has ever happened to Democrats. I sometimes fantasize how different things might have been if the Clintons had just stayed in Arkansas. Thanks to the Clintons, Dems have lost the moral high ground, credibility that rang true even if we lost elections. Now the GOP finds headway, and even many liberals believe both parties are drenched in corporate greed.
It was reaction to 8 years of Bill Clinton (not Al Gore as a candidate) that gave rise to the Green Party, resulting in the loss in 2000 that gave us Bush/Cheney and their malfeasance. Meaning, among other things, millions of lives lost and trillions down the drain in the Iraq War (which Hillary cynically voted for as a senator, btw) and no action on climate change.
It was the vast unpopularity of Hillary Clinton in 2016 that gave us Donald Trump. So twice now Clintons have split the party with disasterous results for the nation and world.
Now Hillary has been talking about running again in 2020, even as the vast majority of NYTimes commenters scream, "Please NO!" Tone-deaf as usual, surrounded by sycophants and padded by Clinton ego, don't expect Hillary to hear the pleas from the mere rank-and-file. Hillary would be a guaranteed loss in 2020, worse than 2016, as once again a Clinton would split the party. This altogether foreseeable catastrophe needs to be nipped in the bud. Please keep hammering away, Maureen.
20
I voted for Hillary. I believe she would have made a good president even though she would have been dogged by one thing or another by the Republicans had she won. But I won't be voting for her again if she decides to run. Deserved or not, she and Bill have too much baggage that would detract from any experience and talent she would bring to the office. Sometimes there is just too much water under the bridge. Maybe that is the problem with planning to be president for 40+ years. Most people who run for president get one shot and lose their bid. Hillary has already had two. I understand it is painful, but her insistence on being president seems pathological to me.
This country is headed off a cliff. We need to move on to right the ship and the last thing we need is yet another campaign dredging back up for the umpteenth time all the Clinton baggage of the last 30 years.
11
“You need both a public and a private position,” Hillary Clinton said. That sums it up.
She had asked for votes of millions, while refusing to say what she told the big banks in her profitable speeches to to them for millions in fees.
But in any democracy worthy of the name, the voters have the right to know what she told the big banks that had caused the greatest crash since the great depression. Many voters were still reeling from that crash. It was a big, big political deal.
Then she refused to restore and update the decades -old bank regulations that her husband with the GOP had repealed. That repeal had been a green light for the banks to do whatever they wanted. Hands off.
What does this pattern tell us? Now the Clintons can't stay out of the limelight, reconstructing their image for the world.
We need a better Dem candidate for 2020---who will show up the contrast. And will beat the worst president in our history.
8
Hillary scored two Electoral " touchdowns " and thought she should have won the election ....
However , Trump kicked five Electoral " field goals " and beat her 15-14
Those were the Electoral college rules....
Get over it
The Clintons should quietly retreat from the scene and wait to support whoever the party nominates in 2020
Otherwise , Trump will use them as a prop to win a second term ...
10
I agree with those on this thread who think this is unfair - even if not entirely wrong. I note that people who have actually worked with her report that she was a good, thoughtful human. She did win the popular vote AND I have to wonder if, just as with Nancy Pelosi, some don't realize how much they're actually influenced by the constant right wing trashing Hillary - including "lock her up" chants. The Clinton Foundation has done some good work and engaged a global network of philanthropists.
681
Having said that, why didn't you also write about the obvious bonds of love and affection they have for each other, sticking together thru thick and thin, deeply devoted to one another as in a fairytale storybook Ms. Dowd?
9
i saw the Clintons and the Gore's on their bus tour right after Bill's first nomination in Carlisle, PA. There were about 50 people there and there was excitement fueled by great hope. That's all gone now and we are left with them, like aging wrestlers, playing to an empty arena, irrelevant and seemingly lost. Sad!
8
Hillary has destroyed what should have been a decent legacy for Bill, absent the Monica saga. It was a time of peace and prosperity, and his story could have been one worth emulating.
However, having Hillary follow him in that quest, despite her woeful lack of political and communication skills, detracted from his accomplishments. That is true particularly because of the GOP's woeful economic record -- 1920s Great Depression, 1980s worst recession until 2000s, Great Recession. His record was decent, but instead, he is falling in the presidential polls of historians and political scientists that showed a continued rise since he left office.
Why could the Clintons not emulate Jimmy Carter, who may have been the best ex-president of all time with his philanthropy and good works? Instead, they are only greedy in trying to fill the coffers of the Clinton Foundation, and they have only one child upon whom they can foist their largesse.
And Hillary did lose the Democratic vote, along with the blue-collar workers who have faced extreme angst, hoping that the deep-pocketed groups could sustain her. She had two chances, and thankfully, Obama beat her in 2008 or the Great Recession could have been the Great Depression II under an economically clueless McCain, another supply sider.
Essentially, Dowd is correct, but like the Clintons, she may be better off going into the shadows herself. Her heyday occurred because of the Clintons, but those days are in the past.
10
ELVIS, HILL AND BILL
Elvis is gone
Bill's old and wan
A lyin' hound dog still.
A Hillary shill.
RICO swill.
Radioactive-as-radon Bill.
Crooked pointer finger trembles
A metronome, a shaky voice.
COPD cadency.
Feigned decency.
Says Hillary's our only choice.
Elvis is gone
Bill's old and wan
A lyin' hound dog still.
A Hillary shill.
We're over Bill.
They're both over the hill
Cosby scurril, Hill and Bill.
7
If the Clintons themselves refuse to be discarded, then it is up to the citizenry, aided by the responsible media, to do the discarding for them. The sprightly under-70 crowd no longer has the time of day for Hillary or Bill.
Miss Dowd suggests that in Toronto the Clintons were "only raising awareness about the Clintons." Actually, not so much, seeing that the audience was so small as to be virtually invisible.
The Clintons rightly become ever more irrelevant by the day regardless of what they do, or not. Hillary will have to go gently or not into her dark night knowing that Bill twice lost the presidency for her.
7
Dowd says she does not think the Clinton's were doing the tour for the money. I disagree. The large prices and the over sized arenas booked just means that they misjudged the demand for these two old war horses by a factor of about five. 3300 people in an arena that seats 19,000, and that's with heavily discounted tickets. The political staff that surrounds the Clintons does not come cheap. The 90% drop in Foundation donations post election means that staff can't be parked there to do political work ( with taxpayer help). They needed the expected lucre from this tour to avoid digging in their own funds to pay for PR flacks, Pollsters, analysts, speech writers , advance men, personal assistants, etc. The Clintons are not interested in paying for this out of their own pockets. Hillary was going for 2020 , but this tour both in appearance and in financial return isn't helping.
12
The Clintons have the right to still do speeches and if people want to go more power to them.
But she will never be president for a host of reasons. She simply cannot get enough votes. If the Democrats had run just about anybody else, we would not have this disaster on our country we have now.
11
Dear Maureen, I think you need a vacation from the East Coast. Coincidentally , the other night, I googled Clinton Foundation to find out the specifics about an amazing array of work they've done in the world to promote The Good, and that they have a private foundation where they individually can pour money to go to The Good. They have put up with irrational scorn and hate over the years, and yet they doggedly still serve the public, even with health issues and the natural ageing process. I'm lucky to do some volunteer work and schlepp a car full of items to Goodwill . I admire them, love them , endorse them and wish them the best of everything they want. They are human beings and could easily sit back and buy toys forever. The fact that they are willing to share themselves with whomever wants to receive it, amazes me . I love your writing normally, but I have to wonder why you bothered to have such a strong reaction to this.
21
I voted for Hillary Clinton. I lived in Arkansas while Bill was the governor and voted for him for President, twice. The Clintons are certainly flawed, as is each one of us. Hillary is an extremely polarizing person. Given the current sorry state of the media and our citizenry, with a system that allows the media to pass off lies as truth (I'm looking at you, Fox "News"), if Hillary had won, we'd be watching the impeachment hearings on television now. Trent Gowdy would have won re-election. The Republicans would have kept their stranglehold on state government and Congress. She would not have been able to appoint any judges--the Senate would have delayed the votes, just as it did under Bill Clinton and Obama. Hillary was the match whose flaming out by losing the election to Trump has caused the rise of Indivisible, the flipping of the House, and the involvement of millions of Americans, mostly older women and the young, who are taking our country back. Had she been elected, this would not have happened. We would have had another presidency by executive order. I grieve for the people who are dying and being injured because of the Republicans in power--people losing healthcare and being denied asylum come to mind first. But without Trump how many Americans would have been so energized to volunteer and vote in 2018?
10
It's pretty clear that she wants to run again. Stranger things have happened--as we know too well. To win in 2020 the Dems will need an alternative to a leftist "Progressive". The Clintons know that. Let's hope Michael Bloomberg runs.
1
While Mrs. Clinton won her 2016 primary, by defeating Jill Stein and Bernie Sanders, neither of whom could have creditably won the general election, against any Republican, Pres. Trump won his primary by defeating 15+ candidates, several of whom could have defeated her and made reasonably good Chief Executives. From this one can only conclude that her time passed in 2016. The empty seat embarrassment was completely predictable and her irrelevance is written in letters so large that even he/she who runs may read!
10
Yeah well, I don't think 'It's a pity' in any sense, or even a surprise, that the Clinton's popularity is in a downward spiral - it is indeed their 'just dessert'. Washington DC political alumni well understand the adage 'Power corrupts , absolute power corrupts absolutely'. Power is the political equivalent of dopamine - the neurochemical transmitter which facilitates addiction...and like drugs of addiction, withdrawal from power is difficult, impossible for some. Both Clintons have danced like dervishes in the heady fog of power - but although their power is gone, the addiction remains.
10
Why the Clinton hit piece? Their affinity for bending the rules/truth and making money through speaking engagements has been well documented and voters have consistently signaled they have no problem with it. The Clinton's left the White House nearly broke. The Goldman speeches? Voters were well aware of them in 2016. Bill Clinton is being vilified for actions that took place a quarter century ago. Actions that voters and Clinton supporters excused due to the vast right wing conspiracy. Rather than criticizing the Clintons for securing their financial future, Dowd and other critics should celebrate a couple living the dream.
15
The only question is why Hillary and Bill, both rejected by time, new ethics and a new day, haven't exited the stage gracefully, like for example, both the Bush Presidents?
Yes, Hillary, in any context would have been a better President for America but she lost, not because of the Russian, or Comey or even Trump. Hillary lost because she was wooden, scripted from beginning to end and couldn't connect with Americans. Hillary lost because she was terrified of being herself. Her time has come...and gone.
8
Dems won the popular vote in 2016 by 3M, they won the popular vote for the House in 2018 by close to 9M. With two more years of the Trump 3-ring circus the gap will likely widen even more. Therefore, unless the Republicans wise up and force Trump to resign, the Dems are very likely to win in 2020 no matter who their candidate is.
With this being the case and 70-somethings Sanders, Biden, Warren, Bloomberg and even John Kerry in the mix, and Donald Trump, who remains completely unqualified for the job and has 1000 times the baggage also running, is it any wonder she wants to take a look? The elderly Nancy Pelosi will rightfully be the next House Speaker strictly because of her experience, know-how, and commitment to the ideals of the party, so Hillary I'm sure thinks why not her too?
I can't imagine the Democrats will re-nominate her nor do I want them to, but after being smeared relentlessly and then robbed, and watching a complete novice in the White House, proving beyond any doubt she was the far, far, far better choice in 2016, it is understandable that she doesn't want to close the door. We should cut her some slack and lay off.
9
Mrs. Clintons was always a money grubber and this in part explains the lack of enthusiasm for her in many places. She is worth hundreds of millions and cannot seem to stop giving canned speeches for pay. Perhaps they want to take a look at President Carter who seems to be quite happy in his role as philanthropist building houses for lower income individuals.
15
Ms. Dowd is accurate in her observations regarding Hillary and Bill Clinton.
I've always questioned supporters descriptions of "most qualified", and I marvel at HC's blindness to the amount of distaste that 64 percent? of Americans feel towards her.
I don't consider her FLOTUS years as a high qualification for becoming POTUS, especially since the Bill Clinton Presidency was so "Republican", so controversial to many Democrats to the point of being disowned by the Democratic hierarchy during the 2000 election. Joe Lieberman was picked as the V-P candidate because he was the most vocal "Democrat" critic of Bill. Al Gore did all he could to distance himself from Bill during his candidacy.
Hillary moved to New York State in 1998 to prepare for the gift of her Senate run in 2000. Her opponent was a nobody in a State that was solidly Democratic.
She served 7 years in the Senate before announcing her candidacy for the Presidency in 2007. Her vote to support the "shock and awe" towards Iraq was her first calculated effort to show her "toughness", channeling her Margaret Thatcher.
President Obama gave her the gift of Secretary of State, during which time she promoted fracking to the world. She might as well have been VP to Dick Cheney, representing Halliburton.
Jeb Bush lost to Trump, and Hillary Clinton lost to Trump because Americans desired change, and had enough of those families
HC did not represent change, and she was exceptionally disliked. She still is.
16
It was plausible in the 1990's to turn toward Bill's "tight labor market" policy to raise wages and to provide portable pensions and portable medical care to encourage labor market flexibility.
However, we got no healthcare, and the tight labor market raised rages a little, but not the way unions could when there were capital controls under Bretton Woods, as labor raised wages and capital raised productivity using captive capital to replace workers, and high aggregate demand kept the whole thing flowing.
In short, Bill's approach failed, and neither Democrats nor Republicans (who didn't care about falling wages) had any alternative policy response. For Hillary to double-down on failed policies was absurd.
People should have known that Trump was a wild-eyed liar, but at least he and Bernie addressed the current economic situation. Hillary edged out Bernie, and gave us Trump. Hillary alienated too many working class men in the upper Midwest by touting policies that failed (see Bill, above), by her ties to Wall Street, and by having no empathy at all with gun owners, and she gave us Trump.
Why would anyone listen to the people whose policies were plausible 25 years ago, whose policies failed, and whose greed for office deprived us of President Sanders, and gave us President Trump?
10
@Craig Mason* Nice Freudian Slip: Obviously I meant to say "raised wages a little," however "raised rages a little" might have been more accurate. Peace.
3
People keep referring to Russian interference in our election how again did they actually do? Or are these just slogans people keep repeating devoid of factual reference? Nobody I know needed Russians to tell us how to vote. The national media and her own words being constantly rammed down our throats were enough.This artical represents the Clinton's as we saw them years ago and why we voted against HRC. But please keep pushing the Russia narrative. Two years in and you have nothing except the same empty slogan. HRC may have won the popular vote in 2016 but that's only because so many conservative voters stayed home or voted against Trump. That won't happen in 2020. But if only Trump could fuse his policies with the character of gentleman he would win in a landslide.
11
@JD Trump is not now nor will ever become a "gentleman". He is a nasty, greedy, narcissist and has required admiring words of praise and applause from his cabinet, advisors, aides, and anyone who works for him. It is more than just "loyalty', rather those around him must constantly stroke his ego both privately and more importantly, publicly. when he doesn't get this, he invents the notion that others have called him with the greatest praise. A major contrast to George HW Bush. worthwhile to read about a Republican president with integrity and a moral core.
4
I think if Mrs. Clinton is really planning on a political future, she should get out there by herself. Having the President alongside reinforces the primary reason that I did not vote for her, which is that she is not an organic political personality; her accomplishments were not reached because of a burning vision she's had since her youth, but because of her spouse. I think that problem is reflected by her persistent inability to find overarching reasons for her candidacies for President. Maybe she could have done all this if she'd never met Bill Clinton, but we will never know now, will we? I would also suggest that she move back to either Illinois or Arkansas, and run from the Midwest, if to run again is the plan. The Clintons as a pair lost a lot of their authenticity when they moved to New York after the President's terms in office. I know that a gettable Senate seat was the reason for that, but the resulting identification with the East Coast liberal elites has been severely damaging to her everywhere except for Hollywood, and those Broadway theaters where the crowd applauds when she walks in. There aren't enough voters in those places to get her where she wants to go!
101
@David Godinez
I have the inkling you wouldn't make the same claim about FDR not being an "organic political personality" (whatever that's supposed to indicate) without his cousin Teddy, or Bush Jr. without his father, or Bobby or Ted Kennedy without John. You seem to have an issue with her gender more so than her qualifications.
She was a well educated lawyer of accomplishment who served as the "first lady" of Arkansas, FLOTUS, a Senator, and Secretary of State.
She didn't hide in the shadows in her professional spousal roles, she was on the frontline. Remember it was Hillary who attempted the impossible task of getting momentum behind a national healthcare policy in the 1990's?
53
@David Godinez Hmm, not a burning vision she had since her youth. Perhaps you should learn a little about Hillary Rodham. Just as one example--she investigated the then burgeoning "white academies" set up in the wake of Brown v. Board of Education, to provide insight into whether their structures were in violation of law. This was before her marriage. Or, try listening to her college graduation speech to get a sense for her commitment to human rights.
48
Having been a supporter of both Clintons -- having voted for each of them -- I am just simply fatigued by their presence in politics. Utterly fatigued. As others have stated, HRC's image has been tainted sufficiently to make her a detriment to Democrats' chances in 2020.
Rather, they both should take a heartfelt lesson from George HW Bush and employ some much needed grace and humility. They've served their country. It is time to step aside.
8
I spent the first 45 years of my life avoiding politics and government in general. Now, as a person who has only recently been informed, I can tell you that the demonization of the Clintons, and especially Hillary, is a particularly disturbing phenomenon to me. Yes, they are flawed people and should not be lionized. However, they are also people who have dedicated their lives to public service and have done a lot of good in this world. Much more than the average Clinton critic.
Whenever I see a piece like this one I am immediately reminded of Trump's vicious smear campaign against Hillary. It feels like a punch in the gut. This is the context through which everyone should evaluate critiques of the the Clintons and especially Hillary.
788
Lets face it - she would have been infinitely better as President than Trump. But then so would have been at least 50% of all adult American citizens. Her time is past. She should have the grace to just leave the stage and enjoy her grandchild.
11
Bill and Hillary Clinton, given their lifelong interest and participation in public policy, will always want to participate and voice their opinion. How they want to participate is up to them, people not interested in their position do not have to listen or donate to their projects.
As for those who dismiss Russian meddling, let us not forget that Jill Stein also sat at the same table with Michael Flynn, and Vladimir Putin. The Russian meddling goes way beyond supporting Trump. Their support of 3rd Party candidates and related efforts to discourage voter participation also helped contributed to the loss of both Federal and State level elections in 2016.
11
I'm not sure what satisfaction should be gleaned from Hillary winning the popular vote in 2016 since many of those votes, especially considering who she ran against, were likely due to her being the lesser of two evils. Indeed that may have been the most crucial issue, however subliminal, in the election, and that many of the votes Trump received were protest votes from voters sick and tired of being forced again and again to vote for the lesser of two evils.
That the lesser known Obama (even without the help of Comey or the Russians) beat Clinton in 2008 would seem to indicate that the above is true, and should be a guide to who Democrat voters are most likely to support, and likely to win, in 2020.
7
I totally agree with this article.
I could see this starting years ago.
I've noticed lately many more people are now realizing this.
It's good people are transforming the way they view the situation, it's the best way forward.
6
Lest we forget, may I remind you, Ms Dowd, that despite your best efforts to the contrary, Hillary DID get at least 3 million MORE votes than the current occupant of the White House. Maybe she has something to tell us about the state of democracy and how it's practiced in our nation. My Canadian friends tell me that the right wing in that country is trying to copy our Republicans' methods of gaining control while losing actual elections -- i.e., votes cast.
26
@Entera That Hillary only managed to get 3 million more votes than Trump is not a glowing endorsement for her. It’s actually more of an indication that the Democrats do indeed need to move on.
17
While the Clintons do seem to have an insatiable desire to hold political office, that's true of virtually all politicians.
But Hillary's continuing to pursue the presidency would be a disaster for the Democratic party. The losing Clinton campaign in 2008 was replete with infighting, personal resentments and divisiveness. And they continue to be a focus of division in the party following their loss in 2016 presidential race. And while her supporters are quick today to lay the blame for this on Bernie Sanders, they pretend they do not have to explain to anyone how the percentage of Sanders voters who did not vote for Clinton in the 2016 general is virtually the same percentage of her voters defected to McCain in 2008, and same percentage of his voters defected from Kerry to Bush in 2004.
The Clintons cannot rally enough unity their own party, and there is absolutely no conceivable way for Hillary Clinton to inspire enough enthusiasm in the country to win the presidency.
14
I worked in news in Arkansas in the 1980s and covered the Clintons when Bill was governor.
Hillary was never accepted there, but she put that aside as she and Bill did great work to support some of the poorest people in America.
They have continued their charity work worldwide and have changed lives.
They are humanitarians above all inadequacies and complications.
41
@Babau There are millions of charitable people in our country. I am sure that many of the other potential candidates are as well. That doesn’t qualify someone automatically to be the best candidate for President.
14
Well said Ms. Dowd. This comment thread shows there are still many people for whom the Clintons are still sacred cows, but you’re absolutely right about where things are heading for them. The younger generation of progressives do not see the Clintons and Pelosi and many other establishment Dems as the future. It’s time for them to step aside.
22
@Justin King
Well, no. Not quite yet.
Pelosi is an able and powerful leader. We need her.
What she really ought to do is is listen to her newest members, bring them to fore, encourage and develop their public personae, clear a path for the new direction they seem inclined to take.
Pelosi will attain Democrat immortality if she carefully trains her successors, encourages them to develop and state forcefully their political vision, prepares the way and manages a transition to new leadership, and stays on board a while to offer heft and support to new Democrat leaders.
I'd never forget someone who did all that.
11
The NYT used to be an island of serenity to escape to on a Sunday morning. Not anymore, thanks to Ms Dowd.
So it is back to "comfort food for my brain". I am watching a German TV series on youtube about current day life on 400 year old farms, about families living together, cooking what they grow and not a Cuisinart in sight.
In 400 years there will be nothing standing in this country.
14
"This to me a personal commitment," Clinton said. "I will stand with you every step of the way. I will not for one minute forget about you or forget about your children, I will do everything I can to help you get back up, to get your strength and resilience flowing through this community again because what happened here should never have happened anywhere."
This was Hillary Clinton in 2016 in Flint, MI. Guess how many times she’s visited Flint since November, 2016? Zero!
24
Yes, the Clintons are through. No fault of their own. Dowd dumped on them for years. Thanks, Maureen for Trump, much is owed to you by him.
Public service to the greater good is now over. The halo that Bush 41 is being given is ridiculous. He was the most unpresidential of any politician I had seen to that time. He had zero vision, had no apparent leadership abilities. When he raved about a scanner at a supermarket people could see how Rich and out of touch he was.He was a party hack in the worst way. He took beatings for Reagan and then got his prize. Poor way to run a country.
30
The whole Clinton thing seems overanalyzed to me. The money is extraneous. What's important is that Hillary had two shots: Once against Obama, then against Trump. Fair or not, she lost. It's time to bow out for the younger people. That goes for the House leadership (except for the new guy), Bernie and all the rest. It's not that we dishonor our older leaders, it's just that the world moves on. And that's a good thing.
24
One commenter asked, "Are the Clintons just nuts?"
I agree. Hard to believe that these two highly intelligent political operatives have so little self perception.
Their time has passed. They are no longer relevant and in fact they are a significant negative for the Democratic party.
I voted for both but now I groan and change stations every time I see one of them on TV.
Please, Hillary and Bill, show some humility. Fade quietly into the sunset and spend your time doing charitable good works like the Carters.
31
That’s your personal opinion. I welcome their presence on the political stage.
6
I very heartening and encouraging op-ed by Ms. Dowd. I am glad to see the curtain closing on the Clintons; I hope it puts an end to them, especially to Hillary Rhodam Clinton, who I consider one of, if not the, most sinister traitors in US history. No longer will they be the face of the Democratic Party. I hope that whoever replaces them as the face of the DP does not practice identity politics, pandering to the political fringe, but reaches out to all Americans, as did Donald J. Trump, who handily defeated HRC in 2016. But I doubt that will happen, the Democratic Party will never again be the party of working-class Americans. What a shame. Thank you.
14
@Southern Boy
Trump has demonized all Americans except for his core supporters. That includes many Republicans (as well as the disabled, anyone who may disagree with him ( "Mr. Magoo", "Lying Ted"). He practices identity politics on a daily basis with his twitter rants and other statements. For example, his belittling a U.S. Federal Judge of Mexican descent as being biased simply because his ancestors came from another country. If that isn't identity politics then I don't know what you think it is.
4
@Southern Boy - How do you reckon Trump being beaten by Clinton in the popular vote by three million as HRC being "handily defeated"?
3
Only a right wing ideologue would want them to keep going. They are not happy people and they need to rest. I wish them happy holidays and self aware New Year resolutions.
8
It appears Ms. Dowd nails this one. I voted for Ms. Clinton only because I had to. I still remember the Pink Sweater interview and the "woulda coulda shoulda" retort she made, the condescending tone accompaniment, so palpable. It left me a bit incensed to say the least. Hopefully Toronto resonates with them and they consider the camper and open road. Somehow I doubt that though.
11
We justly upbraid Trump for his calculated single-mindedness toward acquiring wealth for it's own sake. In that he is transparent.
The Clintons are actually worse because they pretend their wealth addiction is in place for good causes. While some needy causes may participate in their largesse, the Clintons are all about their egos.
The Clintons are no better than Trump in needing to propel their egos. Hillary may try again to ruin the Dems chances to oust the worst prez ever.
We can only hope that by late 2020 all three of these egotists will depart and leave America alone.
17
So Ms. Dowd,
Given your comments, why did you pay $177 to hear them? And how much of that will go into their pockets, adding to their fortunes?
5
@Evan It was a business expense. And Maureen can afford anything she wants--she's got some best-sellers behind her.
1
To be a President one needs to govern with a heart, which Clintons lack. The voters saw this an d did not elect her. End of story. She won the popular vote not the electoral vote....all excuses.
10
yes, in any other country she would have been elected President!
5
Yes, mammon rules and God does not.
Looking for answer, Ms. Dowd? Look to George H. W. Bush, the last leader of our nation who effused goodness and serving others, rather than himself.
While past-presidents and their past-ladies look for more gold coins to swim in, we have the memory of Pres. Bush, RiP, who, like Truman, Ford, and Carter when their leading years were done, went back home and eschewed the spotlights and cameras unless it was to help others.
Bush and his son W, took time to raise money and resources for those in need around the world. So did the Clintons and Obamas. But unlike those who followed them, they largely avoided the circuit of cashing in on their political personas.
The Clintons took the curtains, they said, and some of the silverware when they left. Those items were mixed in with all the treasures given the White House. But Bill and Barack found time to fund-raise for those in need with HW and W.
Maybe it's Hillary and Michelle we need to worry about. I hope that's just a fact and not a sexist non-fact.
3
In 1953 Harry Truman returned home to Independence Missouri, to the same house he’d lived in for entire married life. It wasn’t even his. It belonged to his wife’s family. You could watch Harry Truman, former President of the United States, now his own lawn. You watch him carry his garbage cans down his driveway for garbage pick up. He retired from the Presidency on his Lt. Colonels pension from the Missouri National Guard (Truman was why Presidents get a pension now) it was about $210 a month.
This country has embraced Greed wholeheartedly. It’s one of the seven cardinal sins. It’s no wonder our country is in decline
31
although I voted for Hillary, it's time for her to leave the national stage and let new leaders and ideas vie for the democratic nomination
7
Yes yes yes
I couldn’t have expressed myself better.
Thank you for the words.
6
Too bad that neither the Clintons nor the Obamas can't take the example offered by Jimmy and Rosalyn Carter and use their power and influence to do good. A bit of humility on the part of both couples would help the Democrats tremendously.
17
The Obamas have been nothing but humble. They gave 8 years of their lives to this country and a huge amount of restraint was shown when they were called some of the most disgusting and racist insults. Please, they don’t owe us anything anymore. They have served their time and they ought to be left alone to live as they chose.
5
Feel sorry for the Clintons? Not me. Their selfish mammonism and lack of relevance, created every negative emotion people have/had toward them. Thanks to Hillary, we got Trump. And if she runs again in 2020, we will get Trump again. I hope that their greedy selves will not prevent them from realizing this.
17
I look at a politician's policies, period. I do not look at their affairs (not my business, even with Trump). If they are murderers, pedophiles, or animal abusers, that is different. And no, I do not believe the Clintons killed Vince Foster. I have loved Hillary (and Bill) since they TRIED to address our healthcare problems in 1993. I was working as a nurse in a hospital and knew what a nightmare our healthcare system was then, and continues to be.
11
Count me as one of the empty seats.
14
Misdirected ambitions lead to "Empty seats" !
5
Crowds aren't everything. Trump gets a crowd.
15
@Mike Livingston, Trump is pure entertainment for his crowds. He whips them into a frenzy. Before they return to their opioid pacifiers, sadly, many of them.
2
The question should have been; where did the speaking fees go? If the past is any indication, they went to The Clintons Foundation. The Clintons will continue to raise money for the Clinton Foundation and will not take salary from it. If that disgusts you, then tell us why. In January 2001, they had very little money and solved the problem with multi-million dollar book deals. The deals were just more successful than any other past presidents/first ladies. That is the base of their wealth. There is no scandal or immorality attached to their personal wealth or Maureen would have gleefully informed us to the contrary.
If any reader or Ms Dowd are tired of the Clintons or not interested in their foundation, just don't read or write about them.
629
@Lawrence The Clinton pathology seems to be more about power and influence than money. Hillary’s ever changing positions is proof of this. She is more of a coalition builder than someone who actually stands for something. She can easily remold her stances to give herself the best shot of winning.
18
@Lawrence If HRC runs in 2020 her motorcades will be showered with fake money, as they were in 2016, because young Democrats are tired of losing elections. A huge majority of Americans see that the country has been destroyed by corporate influence, cronyism among elites, and self-dealing as made infamous in our era by the Clintons. Her approval rating is at %36, and was the second lowest in the history of presidential elections when she spent $1.2 billion and lost. They personify corruption in the Democratic Party. Beto raised $38 million in one month in small donations denouncing Super Pac money and corruption in general. That $38 million in small donations is the political response to the Clinton's obsession with wealth. It's a New Democratic Party.
38
@Lawrence. The claim that
Hilllary Clinton’s speaking fees,from the time she left her position as Obama’s Secretary of State until she announced she was running for president, went to to the Clinton Foundation is completely false. The Clintons declared the money she received in speaking fees as income on their federal income taxes.
32
With so many topics far more worthy of a column this weekend - the G-20, Paris under siege from the right and left, Trump's felonious inner cohort under indictment, California's devastating wildfire recovery, the dramatic reversal of the once-growing economy under Trump, or even Melania' s blood-drenched "Carrie" Christmas - it's the columnist I pity, not the Clintons.
22
I'm amazed anyone in Canada would think it necessary to book a large arena to host a Clinton event. Bill is long irrelevant. Hilary has does a convincing imitation of a deer in the headlights, but not much else to please a crowd in a hockey arena.
10
Nonsense. Due to a smear campaign unparalleled in its viciousness and duration and fomented by the Republican establishment, it's become so popular to bash the Clintons even the liberals who covet popularity have taken to it. That's the real pity.
20
It’s pretty pathetic to watch a whole lot of liberals stop thinking for themselves and jump onto the Clinton bashing train.
3
Maureen I typically read all of your columns, and while I have always thought you have something of a thing...for the Clintons, this one lands with a thud for me.
Since, Donald Trump has been running and elected president, there has been a new bar set for incompetence, corruption, self-dealing, nepotism, bullying, lying and authoritarian behavior never seen in the Whitehouse in our lifetime, and dwarfs any predecessor.
Nixon was a crook, and a lot of his scheming and lying was done behind the scenes, but Trump is brazenly right there in your face with it all, and is on display with the daily barrage of lying with vitriolic contempt for the truth and the Press.
It's time for you to turn the page and focus on the real criminal, the real corrupt family, the real bully, the real misogynist, the real threat to our country and democracy as we know it.
34
The dream of equality in American society began it's slow march toward death in 1981 when Ronald Reagan was elected.
Greed, selfishness and income inequality began to take root and the powers that be triumphed this as the new American dream. Democrats began to look more like Republicans and the the center moved sharply to the right. Today we are finally seeing young people in the Democratic party try to take the wheel and steer it back to a time when it represented the common man, and not the ultra wealthy. The Clintons and sadly the Obamas stood behind the banksters and Wall Street thugs as they raped our economy. It looks as if people young and old are finally beginning to see the light and move away from the last 40 years or so of believing in politicians who mostly cared about big money and corporations. One can only hope the newly elected Democrats can win some of their battles and begin a new trend towards a more equal American society.
13
There is not a lot of difference between the greed and lying of Trump and the Clintons except that the Clintons are smoother and less boorish (at least in public) about it.
11
Ego is the engine of it all.
3
Fans are fickle. They flock to Michelle Obama and ignore the Clintons. When none of them has any relevance any more.
The real story is Donald Trump. He's getting things done but not getting much credit. I guess popularity means more than accomplishments these days. Just look at the Kardashians.
6
Trump is getting things done? What exactly? Aggravating our allies? Starting a trade war no one will win? Bailing out farmers with a 12 billion dollar welfare package because of his own incompetent policies? Tweeting like a lunatic daily? Diving the country further apart? Throwing out racist and sexist insults daily? Instigating hatred towards American companies like Harley and GM for not leaving their companies here while he and his daughter continue to make all their companies goods in China? Pretend a Democrat was doing all this. I have a feeling you’d find your outrage in a heartbeat. Luckily for you he is getting credit for all this and will be held accountable for “getting things done”.
8
The height of good manners is knowing when to leave. We gave Bill a pass on things we wouldn’t tolerate now. Shame on us. Hilary tanked an election. Shame on her. Goodbye!
13
What are you doing in a Canadian hockey rink in such momentous time in history such as this? Sounds like you are stuck in the wayback right along side them. Maybe you should have splurged on the meet and greet tickets. You could have commiserated...
7
The Clintons are shameless, terminally self-absorbed, grifters, BUT financially successful ones. Besides holding public office and not going to jail, what have they done for this nation?
15
The Clinton's do not realize that America is so over them. They need to get out of the way!
11
Like the Bush/Gore election, Clinton’s election is history now.
Advice from the peanut gallery:
The next time a female presidential candidate is speaking on a stage with her male opponents and one of those males starts walking around behind her like a predator mobster, I hope the woman has enough common sense to either kick the piggish lout in the groin or spray MACE in his face before resuming her address to interested voters.
If a woman can’t do that, she isn’t qualified to run against Republican candidates.
9
As much as I want to see the Clintons disappear into well-deserved obscurity and irrelevance, and spend their remaining days enjoying the golden retirement so richly deserved after so many decades of selfless public service, I don’t want to read about them. They’re over. Not even the schadenfreude of watching the humiliating spectacle of their failing tour is consolation for the damage they did by ushering in the Trump era.
Maureen Dowd should find something new to write about
10
The old saying is "those whom the gods would destroy, they first make proud." But the Clintons, especially Hillary, give mind to a variant: "... they first make smart."
The combined IQ of this couple must be close to 300. But Hillary has no street smarts. I don't care how much Bill continues to chase adulation, but please, please keep Hillary away from the nomination for President. There's a reason she's been a loser, right from her failed First-Lady attempt to ram her personal version of health care finance reform down the throats of the Congress, on and on.
For once in your life, Hillary, give up!
8
Her crowds were small during the campaign. She seemed/is elitist and aloof. Bernie's message was and is the future. Do you remember his crowds? He had something to say. She merely expected to be next. Many voted against the idiot, not for her.
15
Recalling that Tricky Dick Nixon lost to JFK then got himself elected president twice. There’s a long history of second acts in American culture. Steve Jobs, Teddy Roosevelt... etc
5
@macbloom if she runs again it will be her third act. It would e interesting though to see how she casts herself. In 2008 she was The Great White Hope against Obama. Second time around she was Joan of Arc, fighting for the minorities, including women. What’s left for the third act?
She wasn’t able to win even after her fans attempted to manipulate the primaries in her favor or fed her the the debate questions ahead of time. If her fans want a second act for Trump, they will bring Clinton back from the dead for the third act. Please move on and consider a candidate who might actually end The Trump Follies with a bang.
6
This would be her third....
2
Maureen is so sad. Maybe I can provide something to cheer her up. Hillary lost because she underwent two years of senseless hearings about Benghazi. The people responsible for the killing of our four citizens were terrorists, not Ms. Clinton. The emails discovered during those circuses were blown way out of proportion.
Now the good news. Hillary was a tireless Secretary of State, and a great one. She was my Senator, she did a great job. She was so very qualified to be president. She would not have kissed the ring of Putin and the murderous prince of Saudi Arabia. Please compare her resume to that of the amoral traitor now in the Oval Office.
Kick her when she's down. Really classy, Maureen.
30
Dear Maureen,
What a well-written piece. I can only hope that your clever title is an accurate prediction.
I'm glad that you personally didn't shell out for the show.
5
Hi Maureen,
I forgot to thank you for this article and the previous one on the Obamas. Both Clintons and Obama are Corporatist democrats and have followed similar trajectories. I will never forgive Obama (I campaigned for him, donated a ton of money) for double-crossing ordinary folks, who championed him, by intentionally not prosecuting a single banker, even though bankers were responsible for ruining millions of lives. These people always have post-presidency and the money they could make after they step down in mind . Naturally, they do not want to antagonize Corporations and the Rich (aka 0.01%). What we do not need is more of the same. We need people-champions like Bernie, who follow in the footsteps of FDR. Only then, the misery of the middle class will start to decrease, along with the obscene wealth and income inequality in our nation.
Once again, thank you for your clear, unemotional insight into Clintons and Obama. Please ignore the critics of both columns, who do not seem to understand the true nature of Corporatists and the havoc they bring to the nation as a whole by their Corporatist (aka investor class) policies.
14
I agree that Bernie is the person we need right now. And this is coming from a Hillary supporter.
But Bernie needs to release his taxes, sooner than later. His excuses for not releasing them are lame. Also Jane needs to come clean on whatever she did or did not do up in Burlington.
With Bernie, the electorate will forgive almost any transgression or embarrassing misstep. But he needs to own up now, not while he is running.
2
It is time for every Democrat who aspires to run for President in 2020 AND is over 55 to find another path to leadership. Let Sec Clinton run for Senate or her district in the House. Let her run for School Board or simply concentrate on the Clinton Foundation. Whatever. There are many ways for the elders of the Democratic party to contribute to the recovery of the US from Trump and his corrupt peons. Although he refuses to be a Democrat, I am including Sen. Sanders in this "too old, too familiar" group of elders".
Let all those Democratic elders form a "Think Tank" and overwhelm the right with common sense ideas and focus groups. Bill Clinton's path back to respectability starts not with arenas, but with classrooms of skeptics. Sec. Clinton's ideas are best suited to the classroom as well. Let them do what they do best.
Let 2020 be the election where youth, fresh ideas and hope confronts an aging lying demagogue using fear to keep his base in line. The faces of the Democratic ticket in 2020 must be youthful and multicultural.
6
Your points are solid but the “youngest” person with the most progressive ideas and a track record to prove it is Bernie. He inspires passion, something that Hillary only could do with her opponents.
And most importantly, he can beat Trump.
8
There is of late, a haunting tone to your work.
You need to retire.
21
When I think back to the days of FDR, Truman, Eisenhower et.al., highly successful and effective past President's of great leadership and humility who refused to monetize their magnificent civic roles later in their retirement, and then I'm forced to watch the likes of the Clinton's, and sadly, now the Obama's, demanding these huge sums of cash for the mere 'privilege' of a few hours of rubbing elbows with the politically elite, it explains a hell of a lot for me why we are no longer capable in this country of selecting and electing individuals who aren't in it for themselves and their big brother donors and keeps them tone deaf to the needs of real, and hard working American taxpayers. WE are a sad lot here in America, politically, so good for Toronto for sending the Clinton's the correct and appropriate writing on the proverbial 'fundraising' wall. It was about time.
17
Are you having writer's block, Ms. Dowd? I guess you can always find something to pick on when it comes to the Clintons. It's getting so tired.
25
Isn't their fifteen minutes of fame over yet?
4
Toronto is in Canada, for crying out loud. That's a separate country with its own politics, issues and scandals. Why would Canadians (who are notoriously cheap, BTW) want to shell out money to hear an American politician give a speech? They'd rather watch hockey. The fact that the Toronto event was poorly attended is hardly a litmus test for how the Clintons are perceived in America. Maureen, you are really reaching here in your ongoing vendetta against the Clintons. Would Americans shell out money to hear a speech by a former Canadian Prime Minister who failed to win re-election. Get a grip!
16
She lost because she never really knew why she wanted to be president. She ran as if it was simply her turn. Even Trump the psychopath at least knew what he wanted and was able to voice his justifications for running. I think many people voted for Trump because he was not Clinton (stupid people, for sure). I held my nose when I voted for her because she was not Trump. But there was no vision offered for why she was running. Dowd's article captures that problem perfectly. They are obsessed with their sense of entitlement and believe they simply deserve to be back in the White House.
12
SHE lost because SHE is a female, Tom.
You know it. So do all the women who marched in contempt of The Con Don. So do all the women who participated in #MeToo.
So do most of the honest men who have watched the females in their lives discounted and suppressed.
Ms. Hillary Rodham Clinton - the most qualified person ever to run to be President of the United States - has changed the world with her courage in taking everything the power-male complex could throw at her.
We owe her a huge debt of gratitude. Right along with Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg and all the stong, couragous women who came before and after her.
23
@njglea Joseph Biden, Al Gore and a host of others were every bit as qualified to be president as Clinton. I am soooo sick of that one. If a
candidate can’t figure out how to win, twice, they are not the most qualified to be president. Not only not figure it out but lose to the worst candidate in history.
Keep pushing the wronged,sorry female misogynistic line and your candidates will lose every time. Find out what they need to do to win and stop the fine whining. I am an old lady and sick of those who blame everybody else for their own failures.
She showed what a great president she would be. She would be blaming everybody but herself for her failures at legislation and government. It would be the fault of those big bad brutes in Congrsss.
5
Ohhh, Maureen--it is so sad about the Clintons--playing to scantily attended audiences everywhere. We feel your pain-- as you imagine theirs. We get it--you feel sorry for them.
You may bemoan their fading star power and banishment to the Land of Irrelevance, but you have missed the larger story. Bill and Hillary are but victims to the two greatest Achilles Heels of liberal politics--arrogance and condescension.
The death of George H. W. Bush reminds of of a certain type of conduct. After he was no longer in office, what did we ever hear from him? Or for that matter, what did we hear from his son--or from Reagan, after they were out of office?
Simply put...the same arrogance that informs Liberalism of its primary duty (that it needs to run our lives because the citizenry is incapable), also prevents its has-beens from fading away.
It seems no Liberal can understand the message--"your time has come and gone"--not the Obamas, the Clintons--or even Al Gore the climate scientist. Even Ruth Bader Ginsberg dares shed her cloak of impartiality to weigh in on presidential politics. Liberals are simply too smart and too important to resist entering the fray. They are compelled by force of arrogance to be heard.
Why did Hillary lose the South, the Heartland, Fly-over Country--and thus the election? Simple...average folks didn't want to listen to her for 4 years--to be tut-tutted, belittled, condescended to, or just forgotten.
But she'll do it better next time.
15
I have never understood the animus against the Clintons, Hillary Clinton, in particular. I voted for her and I would do it again in a heartbeat. She would have been a fine president and she still inspires people like me, older women, that is. I'm happy that younger women are taking up the fight, but we older women were there long before. Let's acknowledge that and give Hillary Clinton her due.
17
What a mean spirited column Dowd , I voted for Madame Hillary in 2008 and also in 2016 and she would have made a great first Woman President. She also won the popular votes by more than three millions.
But you contributed for her loss and trumps win who is now taking the Country to the sinkhole and I do not know if we ever recover form the disaster the man created.
Yes Hillary made mistakes by not shedding Bill Clinton from her life . Monica Lewinsky does not belong to the me too movement , she as the young intern chased President Clinton relentlessly and he never could stopped himself from women.
sSaying that time to let them be .
16
Good riddance to entitled Hillary's smug self-satisfaction and to Bill's sanctimonious lip-chewing. Yet, they'll still have plenty of opportunity to sabotage the campaigns of promising Democrats in '20. To say that another Clinton administration would have been preferable to the current POTUS is to say that catatonia would be preferable to death.
14
It's always entertaining when Ms. Dowd writes one of these to come read the comments. If you played a drinking game where you had to take a shot every time you came across a comment attacking her for not leaving the Clintons alone, you'd die of alcohol poisoning. They believe she should leave them alone, because it's old news. But people are missing the point of the article. Ms. Dowd is writing this because she believes the Clintons are not planning to fade into history, but are actually contemplating another run.
14
I have wondered for years just what the Clintons did to Maureen Dowd. Even Trump's sick obsessions do not appear as all consuming as Dowd's pathological obsession with and hatred of all things Clinton. For years, she has managed to get some attack on one or both of the Clintons into nearly every column, no matter what the topic. Hillary Clinton's loss of the presidency seems to have only partially assuaged Dowd's contempt. The fact that they are now both out of power and out of the spotlight, still doesn't seem to be enough. That dog is down, Maureen. You can stop kicking it now.
23
@KWS. Dowd's point is that the Clintons are not out of the spotlight. They are still trying to hog the spotlight.
Why? For more money? To support another run by Hillary? That's an important question that needs to be asked and answered.
7
If the Clinton's were truly past their expiration date and fading into obscurity I don't think Maureen Dowd would have devoted yet another entire column to them. She must think Hillary has a chance in 2020. Thanks, Maureen Dowd! Go Hillary!!
7
Thanks Socrates, a most appropriate comment as usual. Hillary would have been a fine president, even if not compared to the blob now occupying the WH! This doesn't mean she should run again, but we should always remember to give credit when it's due, which Ms. Dowd does not seem to believe in.
6
Hillary Clinton won the popular vote in 2016 by 3.7 million and she beat Sanders by 3.8 million in the primary. Russia put the current nightmare into the White House - the popular vote was squarely for HRC. People like Maureen Dowd just can't let it go; still terrified of the Clintons.
If the Clintons have lost their relevance, why is Dowd bothering to write about them?
12
The popular vote doesn’t matter; the Electoral College does, key fact that HRC’s staff and her still-fervent enablers seem not to know. Trump trashed Hillary in the Electoral College, where it counted. As for the primaries, the DNC rigged the game against Sanders from the get-go. And we didn’t need Wikileaks to know that
6
@JL22: "Hillary Clinton won the popular vote in 2016 by 3.7 million..."
That's true -- and yet one still must win the Electoral College to be elected.
She must've known that, eh? But she largely wrote off states that could've put her over-the-top.
(Perhaps those areas didn't have enough $30K/pop attendees for a Clooney- or Hamptons-style meet-and-greet?)
5
A poignant essay, Maureen. I voted for both (although I thought that Bush was going to win handily in 1992. Clinton showed up, and the economy was really bad, as James Carville reminded him).
As for the Clintons today, I think that it's just hard for some people to grow old. Age is a fracture to the ego, so the Clintons go on selling themselves to those who will listen. Wise people know of their accomplishments and leave them to the past, where they occurred. The future becomes reflection.
Because... as you write, Maureen, the past has also failures with those accomplishments. And we all know of the Clinton's imbroglios. With the simple-minded, social media types that we have running around our culture today, any flaws in the past are reverberated in the social media echo chamber. It's difficult for the Clintons to reemerge.
But there are those clintonistas. I voted for Hillary, but, before the election, I had an argument with one over the big risk that Hillary had going forward. This observation was all over the news, it was not my profound discovery. The clintonista called me a male sexist for making those observations. These people could be nazis. They could drive people out of the party, as some were in 2016.
The Clintons accomplished positive things for our nation. The future always demands different solutions, maybe based on the past, but requires fresh leadership. To fix the trump mess, let's get fired up and ready to go with new leadership.
1
Will the Clintons see the writing on the wall? I doubt it.
10
I guess it's always easy for Ms Dowd to trash the Clintons or the Obamas or anyone else in politics whom she doesn't like that week. Why don't you reserve your venom for the real evil in this country, the "orange puffer clown fish" aka as the president of the United States? Sure the Clintons have plenty of flaws and I'm sure you'll find them.
For information on the Clinton Foundation see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_Foundation
admittedly I don't particularly like using Wikipedia as a source but trying to find an objective view is difficult. Lots of negative hit pieces are out there from the Daily Caller, The Blaze, an ultra conservative media journal founded by Glenn Beck etc.
The Clinton Foundation has done a great deal of good in the world as most know.
6
Ms. Dowd, you feeling sorry for the Clintons doesn't sound like you're feeling sorry.
5
Thank you Ms. Dowd--this is an extremely well written article--and I voted for both Clintons. It's time for them to go home and enjoy their grandchildren.
7
Yes, much more important to write about half empty arena in Toronto to see Clintons than Trump Towers in Moscow
10
Hillary in 2020? You've GOT to be kidding me.
8
I'm always excited to read Ms. Dowd's columns except, as in this case, when I feel depressed to see that she herself hasn't moved on from covering the Clintons. Aren't there more relevant uses of this column? Why are you helping Trump continue to re-hash another angle of the Clinton story? Is there some historical record-book you are setting straight? Seriously, I would love to know.
8
Maureen if you would have done yur job and looked beyond the facade you would have discovered this about the Clinton's years ago even as far back as 1992.
5
Remember that commercial that Trump ran two years ago? "She only cares about money, power, and herself!" Sounds like a fair description of BOTH of them, frankly.
But that aside: it appears as though Hillary is now trying to prove Trump right. Just what we don't need.
5
Are you sure? Have you seen the proverbial (& merely Meta4ical) wooden stake through their banker's hearts? Ms Clinton nearly wrecked the Dem party & not singlehandedly...running on the Billy tape and Russian puppet line, rather than ACA, SS, 15, Infrastructure, and what won this year...
The Dems need to cut down the early primaries bias to the south and plains (which they always lose in the Real election) so northern and coast voters don't stay home. (& the siren call to Gender ID politics that leave them open to Madame DeFarge cartoon ads, with her holding the cord to the guillotine will be no more successful than in 16, especially given the blade is small, not meant for heads...
IF the two party system devolves to male v female I'll have to dump Prog and vote my old testaments, like the majority period)
You may think...BUT, cue the violins reekreekreek!.., HC throwing Merkel under the bus suggests she is triangulating immigration for 2020, so SHE'S BAAAACK!
Prove me wrong...fastly
6
To this day, my 99-year-old Misssissippi-born grandmother will not tell me who she voted for in 2016. "I did NOT vote for Trump," she emailed me to my great relief when I asked (never, in my life, have I had to ask her who she voted for). "But I also did not vote for this woman whom I've watched for 20 years and never trusted, and I am relieved that she did not win!!"
I always felt an out-for-themselves sheen about the Clintons that never eased my mind or made me feel I was in the equipped, thoroughly aware hands of a leader. Even as I voted against my grandmother, election after election, I understood her trepidation.
Now I understand it even more.
11
Hillary: Two words: Go Away!
15
A lot of people changed their minds about the Clintons after they watched the new documentary "The Clinton Affair," the six-part limited documentary series aired on A&E Network Nov. 18-20"
https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2018/11/30/abuse-power-clinton-affair-divide-conquer-roger-ailes
Even die hard fans, paused to reflect. My daughters, her friends, consider Bill Clinton creepy. And they dislike the fact that Hillary stood by him, clearly a serial womanizer.
9
The Clintons have much wisdom to offer. They, and our political syetems, need to learn how to value and treat that as the asset it should be. Certainly, with the decades long open bombardment from FOX News added to whatever mistakes Hillary has made, whatever talent and prospects she has for national leadership are, fairly or not, gone.
Our new generations of politicians could use some mentoring; the world is too complex to base policies on the current generations' discoveries.
Who is to mentor the Clintons to help them define this new role for themselves?
1
Hillary? Bill? You're so over.
Enjoy retirement, and leave us alone.
8
The Clintons are so last Tuesday....
5
Thank you.
2
Maureen, it's not a "pity." It's about time.
10
I enjoy your writing but will never fully understand the bile you have for these two people who are heroes for so many of us.
14
The Clintons would survive events that would wipe out Stalin, Dracula, Godzilla, Father Christmas, and.. bacteria.
6
Apart from the fact that what Toronto feels about the Clintons is more than slightly irrelevant, seeing that Canadians are still citizens of an independent nation (and likely to remain so for a long time to come) - I am sure that there are good advisors around who have not yet sold their souls to the Trump bandwagon. Should Ms Clinton really want to face up the challenge once again, and if she can get herself a new email address, there is no reason why she should not challenge the walking goldfish a second time.
5
A frank, thoughtful and just piece by Ms. Dowd. The election of a Democratic President in 2020 offers the best chance to save America's democracy. The best candidates are among the rising women legislators who have been speaking boldly against the corruption of the current regime since Trump was elected. Black women voters saved us in the mid terms and we need their power in 2020. We owe them thoughtful consideration of candidates who faithfully represent their interests. We don't owe Hillary, (or Bernie), a makeup.
3
Jack and Jill went up the hill....
2
Maureen,
I can't help but feel that your animus towards the Clintons has as much to do with seeing them through your conservative family's eyes as with anything that they have or haven't done.
It's as if a shred of Anderson's Snow Queen mirror has lodged in your eye and distorts everything you see about them.
Since when is raising lots of money for their charity a bad thing? Why are the Clintons greedier or more entitled than Bushes, with their close relationships with the oil industry - can you imagine if it was Bill and Hillary Clinton, and not Bush Sr., who attended Ken Lay's memorial service in the wake of the Enron fiasco? Or how about the Kennedys for that matter? Aren't they still still living off the fortune accumulated during the freewheeling roaring 20s (with the help of now illegal practices such as market manipulation and insider trading) by their antisemitic Nazi sympathizing, friend of Joseph McCarthy and mobsters - patriarch Joseph Kennedy Sr.? How is it you criticize Hillary's decision to stand by Clinton and advance his political career but have nothing to say about JFK and Jackie?
You constantly look to the people who badmouth the Clintons. Are they the first or will they be the last politicians to speak on Wall Street?
Bill Clinton demonstrated many things people say they want - working across the aisle, being in touch with what the public wants - but when he did it, it was critiqued as being opportunistic and slick. Why?
33
Ahem, you paid $177 to see these people? I hope you mean that the Times paid for you to attend. Either way the money would have been better spent going to a legitimate charity.
6
In the 1930's Winston Churchill was considered a has-been, out-of-touch old fool...
13
You capture the pity I feel for them, truly. For a couple who could have contributed so much to our society, they have squandered their opportunities for personal wealth. Recent Obama promotion may do the same for them -- engender a sad end. I hope Mrs. Clinton does not attempt to come back. It is time for the Dems to move on. The midterm election has given me hope for a Democratic future if past and current leaders do not shackle these bright and diverse voices. Mrs. Clinton should have been president but life didn't go her way. So I am not critical of Ms. Dowd's voice here. She reflects an accurate analysis of what happens when someone stays too long. I wish the Clinton's obscurity.
6
"Ex President and failed presidential candidate speak at mostly empty hockey rink."
This could be a scene straight out of the Rob Reiner movie, "This is Spinal Tap".
7
Still one of the best things about the Times...want more Dowd
7
Somehow this column seems as irrelevant as the Clintons.
14
Maureen Dowd - the topic of your column before the wildly important midterms? Gary Hart. Now, after a week of Mueller making moves; Mannafort playing double agent to his double agent and Cohen providing more evidence of Russian lies and entanglements. Duetchebank was raided. A legendary Chicago Alderman was raided by the FBI. (All of this happened on the same day no less.) And, what do you turn your poison pen to this weekend? The Clintons of course. Please read the headlines and get out of the wayback machine. It's going down Maureen, and you are sitting in a Canadian arena eating popcorn?
30
NYTimes and Dowd
Can you please publish a story on the DNC describing just how irrelevant the American Democrat is in the Democratic Party??
10
Pathos and pity, for Hillary?! First, she’d surely spit in your maudlin eye, given proximity and an opportune moment. Second, Kefauver’s quip that “Presidential ambition is a disease which can only be cured by embalming fluid“ ought to be a gang tattoo on Hillary’s neck.
8
The American public expressed their opinion about the worthiness of the Clinton's in 2016. She (they) lost to Donald Trump. Think about that for a moment. Trump didn't hide his personality, he was a jerk before the election and everyone knew it, yet the American people still chose him over another experience at the hands of the Clinton's. That is about as damning as it gets.
14
Actually, trump didn't really win the election. Hillary got the popular vote. It was the electoral system, not the people, who put trump in power. The system should be changed.
8
The American public chose Hilary Clinton by about 3 million votes.
6
The only good thing about Mr. Trump is that he blocked Hillary Clinton from being President. Ah, but what a price we are paying for that!
If there was a single sin committed by the Clinton that stands out from all of the others, they allowed Mr. Trump to beat them. What kind of pathetic candidate could have allowed Mr. Trump to win?
So, it came to this in America: Our scam two-party system left us a no-win election between Mr. Trump and Ms. Clinton. Damned if we did, and damned if we didn't. Our situation couldn't be more dire, with incessant warfare, incessant exploitation of the 99% by the 1%, and the incessant degradation of the planet so that it will make life intolerably miserable and possible unsustainable, and with all of these dire emergencies our political system served up a choice between Mr. Trump and Ms. Clinton.
Could the evidence be more stark of our collective failure? Send the Clintons to Elba and the Trumps to St. Helena. Neither group merits inclusion in a civilized society. Neither has any clue about how to extricate ourselves from the abyss.
10
@Che Beauchard. Incessant warfare? More like peace is breaking out. And Donald Trump is doing more for the 99% and for the environment than Barack Obama ever did.
Presidents have little power. But at least Donald Trump realizes that and does what he can. He's a pragmatist where Hillary Clinton is an ideologue, full of ideas and policies but having never accomplished anything.
Thank God we have a real president instead of a Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders or Barack Obama or Mitt Romney or John McCain. The times demanded one, and we got him.
3
It will be amusing to watch Hillary try a 2020 run. Especially if the other Democrat candidates finally screw their courage to the post and eviscerate her as the grifter she is.
15
Paying hundreds of dollars to go to listen to anyone speak about their book is not my idea of a good time.
8
The Clintons ultimately have been bad for the
country and are going to be the last to figure
that out.
14
The Clintons are, always have been, and always will be Republicans who hid their true colors by espousing identity politics, diving America into competing groups demanding special treatments based on who could claim the greatest victimization at the hands of evil white males.
Corporations and rich people love them because they were great for profits, and never caught hard enough to prevent tax breaks for corporations and the continual transfer of wealth to the rich.
Hopefully, the Democratic Party will someday stop worrying incessantly about the gender-confused, the alleged “disabled” and felons, and start worrying about working, law-abiding families.
9
Trump and Hillary: narcissists who deserve--and get--each other. Together, regardless of their many differences, they are representative of Americans as a whole--people without character on conscience, incapable of introspection or self-criticism, and aggressively defensive. Who are next? Mike Pence and any first-term Democratic woman?
6
I can't think of any other Democrat who would not beat Donald Trump in 2016.
7
She is emblematic of Corporatist democrats, who put money first over people. Her $600,000+ loot from Goldman Sachs proved it. If there is any single person to blame for the travesty of Trump being our president, it is HER! She should just go away to swim with Bill in the pool of cash they greedily gathered after their stint in power. Good riddance!
10
And it was still bigger than Trump's inauguration :-)
13
Fascinating that the Readers Picks primarily see this column for what it is - a mean-spirited hit job, full of loaded language (consigliere? Really?). But The NY Times pick are uniformly negative about Clinton. Surprise, surprise.
Hilary Clinton, like any politician who’s been around for a while and been through the wars, is imperfect. And she has the problem of being married to a brilliant, but fatally flawed husband.
But her biggest problem is that she’s a woman, and a powerful one, at that.
So, no matter how much good she does (and her foundation, which the column smeared, has done enormous good, unlike Trump’s fake foundation), how hard she’s worked, and how successful she’s been (in a non-gerrymandered, non-voter suppressing country, she would have won the Presidential election), the Times aids and abets the long-term program that the Republicans put into place because of their fear of her - smear her, keep throwing accusations at her (even though she’s found innocent time and time again) - do anything they can to hurt her image and turn voters against her.
The Times, as it so often is, is foolishly complicit in helping the people who have so terribly damaged our country do more harm.
And we see them doing the same with Nancy Pelosi.
Anyone see a pattern?
25
@Roy Wilsker ~
Astute observation Mr. Wilsker.
I posted a comment last evening that many readers liked. I called the op-ed mean spirited and among other things called attention to the use of consigliore.
For some reason, my comment has disappeared. Why?
10
@Roy Wilsker. What has Hillary accomplished? I keep trying to find a real accomplishment in her past. I keep coming up empty.
7
@John Smithson ~ Maybe we don't know more because Hillary like many women isn't a braggart.
Here is one that resonates with me: "She wrote the bill to get health care coverage for 9/11 first responders. That included health research related to the attacks. The rescue operations forced many police and firefighters into early retirement with debilitating chronic injuries and illnesses. Her successor, Senator Kirsten Hillibrand, got the bill passed. "
Many more accomplishments at:
https://www.thebalance.com/hillary-clinton-s-accomplishments-4101811
5
Normally, I would be attacking Dowd here for her endless railing against the Clintons, and the obsession she has with them. But she makes some very good points here. The Clintons, with all their political combat experience, should indeed be mentoring young Dems, not still seeking the spotlight themselves. There's something pathetic about this entire scenario. Timing one's exit is an essential skill for any great actor....
13
Maureen I typically read all of your columns, and while I have always thought you have something of a thing...for the Clintons, this one lands with a thud for me.
Since, Donald Trump has been running and elected president, there has been a new bar set for incompetence, corruption, self-dealing, nepotism, bullying, lying and authoritarian behavior never seen in the Whitehouse in our lifetime, and dwarfs any predecessor.
Nixon was a crook, and a lot of his scheming and lying was done behind the scenes, but Trump is brazenly right there in your face with it all, and is on display with the daily barrage of lying with vitriolic contempt for the truth and the Press.
It's time for you to turn the page and focus on the real criminal, the real corrupt family, the real bully, the real misogynist, the real threat to our country and democracy as we know it.
23
The best thing Hillary could do for the Democratic Party (and herself) is focus on a dignified project that doesn’t involve running fur office.
The second best thing Hillary could do is to run again for President and get pummeled in the primary — allowing the Democratic Party to kill off the old (problematic) brand and usher in a new relevant one.
Clinton jumped the shark 12 years ago when she embraced racist appeals during the primary.
4
Dear Ms. Dowd,
You are a gifted writer. Your eloquent and deeply personal essay about your Trump supporting siblings was especially powerful.
So, allow me to ask for one more moment of self reflection. Try writing something positive about this couple, and especially Hillary. Instead of zeroing in on her faults, or half empty arenas where she appears, step back and think about what she's accomplished, and write about that.
It's not enough to deliver the snark with your mighty pen. Your column isn't about you, or how clever you are. If you'd like to be remembered as someone more than a brilliant Times columnist, why not take this opportunity and use your influence to acknowledge what a remarkable woman she is.
My guess is, even if you only scratched the surface, you could find more than enough material to fill your next column.
And if you did, you might feel better, too.
11
Well, the new president of Mexico was elected on his third try. For Mrs. Clinton, however, there might be some confusion between principle & principal.
3
I guess I'm part of the 36% because I appreciate this couple. They worked hard while in the White House, and overall left the country in very good shape when they left it. Ms Dowd, you are making money writing. Should I judge you because you're fairly rich from it?
14
I voted for both of them multiple times, but it's clear they have some tone deafness, as do their sycophantic defenders. And as for the behavior of ex-presidents, the reported tension between them and Jimmy Carter is instructive. It's hard to escape a comparison between the former presidential couples, and I know which I admire more.
6
Does anyone really believe the Democratic party is going to tell all their presidential hopefuls to stay home in 2020 to give Hilary another shot? Whatever you want to think about why she lost in 2016, you cannot convince yourself that her chances are going to better a second time around.
America didn't want 'business as usual' in 2016, so we got Trump. Next time (I'm hoping) voters will be smarter and support a candidate that is competent and able unite our country. We are truly ready for some progressive leadership.
6
They have amassed a fortune of $200,000,000? And people can defend this type of conduct? And the Clinton's are not the only ones. Republicans and Democrats treat high level offices as a vehicle to print money once they have left. Of course everyone deserves the opportunity to make money. But where is the old fashioned notion that public service is tis own reward. Yeah i'm a pollyanna from a bygone era. I remember reading about Sam Rayburn, the longest service House Speaker. His comment was "an honest man does not get rich in politics" He served his country for over 50 years and died in 1962 with $15,000 in the bank; worth about $125,000 in today's dollars. Can you imagine a former President, Speaker, etc. today with that net worth. Why they would have to buy their suits off the rack; and of course the would never be vacationing in the Hamptons, or jetting off to Davos.
21
Ms. Dowd are you delusional?
You say, "It can’t be the money at this point. Have they (the Clintons) even spent all the Goldman gold yet? Do they want to swim in their cash like Scrooge McDuck?"
Did you notice that the same "Goldman" crowd that The Con Don pilloried Ms. Hillary Rodham Clinton about is firmly ensconsed in OUR U.S. government and are robbing 99.9% of us blind every day while they try to destroy OUR government and governments around the world for personal gain?
Probably not. That is how you and the other 0.01% got there - putting Robber Barons in charge to enrich you since Nixon.
I have no idea if the Clinton's are corrupt. I will never forgive Bill for signing the death warrant for Glass Stegall. However, with The Con Don lurking around OUR white house and the Goldman boys and girls destroying OUR cabinets and regulatory agencies 24/7 they look like saints to me.
21
They took money from the Goldman boys.
3
@njglea The Clinton’s are Republican lite. That’s probably the best that Republicans can hope for in 2020.
3
I think Hillary should run against Trump for the Republican Party nomination. It’s clear that the Democratic Party has moved away from the Clintons. The Clintons have more in common with free market socially liberal Republicans than they ever did with the actual Democratic base. Lastly, Republicans need to move in a more socially liberal direction while maintaining economic liberalism as well which Democrats have long ago abandoned.
11
Am I missing something? Scotiabank Arena is a almost 20,000 seat arena .. in Toronto .. which is in Canada ! So trying to fill that with interested Canadians at $157 a seat just seems like a colossal booking error, not a genuine reflection of Hillary's ability to draw a crowd.
And .. you do know that Bill and Hillary are two separate people, so harping on Bill's earnings seems disingenuous. $38 million was on his book, and yes he was a very popular president. Both Hillary and Bill are excellent speakers who are capable of stringing together thoughts into coherent sentences and they both are well read, well educated and well informed on both current events and historical events.
How can one guy be OK with plastering his name on buildings after a career of questionable real estate "deals" but some speaking engagements are so taboo ?
They have been and are still relevant .. so they can garner speaking engagements at a good pay.
Maureen, this is a hit piece and yes, you are somewhat to blame for her losing ..
And running a large 4-star charity is a good thing, not another thing to harp on.
22
I voted for Hillary, and with enthusiasm. So, so sorry she lost, both for the loss of her possible presidency and for the stinking pile of ordure that is the Trump presidency.
But enough. Be a grandma, be an elder stateswoman, speak at graduations and conferences, but enough.
7
It is not wise to write off the Clintons ! The overcrowded Democratic field for the 2020 presidential election could make Hillary Clinton pretty relevant !
4
Maureen’s Clinton obituary is hardly a balanced view, but that it is time for the Clintons to exit the stage is very clear. They cannot lead a way out of the present morass engendered by a gaggle of billionaire Oligarchs and their massive hugely influential propaganda machine that includes today’s supine GOP and a deluded 40% of American voters.
3
Well written Maurine. Sometimes people just stop listening to whole and just listen to what they want to hear.
Bill was very successful but womanizing post 1963 just wasn’t going to work out the same way it did for JFK.
Hillary on the other hand did a good job turning lemons into lemonade.
And now they’re back.
1
Indictment is the only way for them to get back on top.
3
Amen to all you write here!
1
Like the old joke, denial is not just a river in Egypt, but cannot blame the Clintons any more than I would point the finger at Nancy Pelosi and suggest that she also vacate the limelight, or Robert Mueller who should have found a better solution for his crepuscular years than chasing a chimera, Russian collusion, as if the average citizen really cared. When I refer to average citizens I exclude all those schoolteachers, tenured time servers who parrot the anti Trump line and repeat it for the EB, which never encountered an anti TRUMP tirade that it disliked or could avoid publishing , despite its VAPIDITY!As mentioned , it is not as if they were distilling opinions from columns written by real journos like Lippmann, Sokolsky, Lerner, Alsop brothers , Weschler , Arnaud de Borchgrave, whom for the most part they have never heard of. Their sources, in my view, r the info babes and guys from cable news outlets. Like my students at Brandeis High, who told me that Michael Jackson was their favorite author. But I digress. In my seventies I am still trying to land another lectureship at a university after 25 years as a h.s.dean and then stints at 2 African universities upon retirement, so I can't blame the Clintons for never saying die, for wanting to feel relevant, NEEDED!Well written article, but lacks the compassion for the aged which author herself should share, since she also is approaching medicare eligibility. "Anno domini,"the years add up!
4
Yes, Trump is just about the only person still interested in Hillary. Trump and Maureen Dowd, that is. As the dwindling crowd in Toronto showed, we have moved on from the Clintons. Just as there will always be deluded fans that will fawn and faint over Donald Trump, so too there are still those devoted to the Clinton mystic, or what passes for mystic. Let B &H fade away. There is no possibility that any Clinton will be on a ballot in 2020. So what if they take their pathetic caravan around Canada and the U.S.? They have nothing else to do. (And, I voted for him twice and for her once.)
3
God, Ms Orth, ENOUGH ALREADY with the Clintons. We have more serious issues to deal with.
10
I used to have a refrigerator magnet saying something like “ wish Bill was still President” or something similar... but after the Clintons frittered away a huge lead and turned their backs on traditional Dem constituencies, like my union, I threw the magnet away a long time ago. Oh, I voted for Hillary because I knew Trump was full of it, but a lot of my union brothers and sisters harbored grudges against the Clintons and voted for Trump, just to “show” the Dem Party that they were being taken for granted.
So, my opinion is: disappear, Clintons, into a long retirement. You’ve had your time in the sun. I’m nearly 70 myself... it’s time for a new generation of Dems.
10
Almost chose to pass on this article. Kind of wish I did.
19
Let’s see, 700 speeches in 15 years averages out to 46 speeches a year, so 23 speeches for each of them on average. That doesn’t seem so many. Recently, a lawyer friend reported attending a conference with a speech from a political bigwig as a draw. The politician was paid a quarter of a million dollars for a one hour speech and a Q and A following. If organizations are going to pay so much money for stars and bragging rights, why shouldn’t the stars take advantage, as both a Reagan and the Bushes also did?
12
Hillary and Bill can do whatever they want. Their combined experience gives them the right to comment on the events of the day. Their combined contribution to public service gives them the right speak. Wouldn't we all love them to just fade away? why? Because they are "old and in the way?"
15
I'm just waiting for the 2017 Clinton Foundation IRS Form 990 to be published. It was due some months ago. Previous filings showed a surprising increase headed into the 2016 election, with the contributions climbing to a quarter billion dollars in 2016.
Bernie Sanders fretted about the influence that cash might have, in a primary debate. Clinton answered with a laugh, saying nothing has ever been proven to say she was engaged in a "pay-to-play" scheme, nor could it be.
With her surprising loss, will the revenue decline precipitously, continue upward or what? We're waiting to find out, and the numbers are going to tell the story.
Meanwhile, the concerted effort to push Chelsea Clinton onto the stage of relevancy continues, with press flacks pushing her narrative in widespread corners of the media.
Whatever good Hillary did with CHIP is getting overshadowed by infant deaths in Syria and Yemen, both products of neo-liberal agendas she has supported with enthusiasm.
13
Oh, Brian. Where to begin?
I’ll pick one at random. Chelsea Clinton. I assume you’re good with ‘senior advisers’ Jared and Ivanka Trump?
13
@itsmildeyes
Don't forget Don Junior and Eric traveling on government expense to push the Trump business agenda, corruption and ethics violations unlike any others in modern times.
2
As always, the Clintons can do what everyone else in their position has done and only they will be demonized. Others used personal email in office but only Hillary Clinton is investigated. Other administrations have had larger terrorist attacks on American interests but only Hillary Clinton has Benghazi, which was the decision of military commanders making security decisions based on underfunding, follow her forever.
Other prominent people command large speaking fees. But because we cannot have a woman who gets $250,000 a speech as President, we elect a man who gets up to 1 million per speech.
Countless marriages have endured infidelity. 65% of them remain intact but only Hillary Clinton is vilified for staying in the marriage and raising an exemplary daughter.
Hillary Clinton won more popular votes than any of the guys in both the 2008 and 2016 primaries and easily more popular votes than Trump yet she is consistently treated as a loser in the press.
The Clintons have huge accomplishments behind them. Why is it that only they deserve contempt? Maybe we are just jealous.
45
@Deborah: Why is Hillary urged to leave the public arena, while Mitt Romney is touted as a primary challenger to Donald Trump for the 2020 nomination?
I'd suggest sexism is the reason: people never forgave Hillary Clinton for daring to suggest (early in Bill Clinton's presidency) that as a successful attorney, she had more important skills than baking cookies. The demonization started then, and has never stopped.
I agree that she shouldn't run in 2020 - but if she stated that she was NOT running, Maureen Dowd and the rest of the pundit class would claim this meant she was definitely running.
P.S.: for all the folks suggesting that Hillary Clinton should disappear from public life forever because she lost an election - please explain why this standard does not apply to male politicians such as Mitt Romney.
16
@John M - Mitt Romney is entirely irrelevant, will never run for president, does not appear to have any interest in doing so and pfobably has a snowball's chance in hell of being nominated.
HRC may continue to have some small contribution to make, based on her experience and connections, but will never again be a contender and it has nothing to do with her gender. It has a great deal more to do with other factors, such as HOW she ran her campaign, how her circle twisted the nomination process to undermine the competition during the primaries, and in so doing, undermine the voices of Democrat voters, and in the reality that she is noe politically irrelevant.
By the way, I voted for her in 2016, but with the knowledge that she was far from the choice I believe the DEM leadership should have made.
4
@John M Agree with you on everything except that she should not run in 2020. Just waiting for the electorate to finally figure out that knowing what you are doing is actually a good thing for a President. I read all of her disagreements with Obama on how to handle the Arab Spring country by country. We have no way of knowing what would have happened if her counsel had been followed but she correctly predicted that Egypt would elect the Muslim Brotherhood, that something like ISIS would arise out of the civil war in Syria, and that Libya would elect a moderate government but that it would fall without Western security support. Contrary to popular opinion, she was not all for the Iraq War. Her speech at the time correctly predicted unintended consequences of actually going to war, suggested a course of action to avoid war, but supported the resolution as a bargaining chip. As far as I am concerned, the mess we have now would not have happened if she had been calling the shots. As long as she is healthy, I think she would make a great President.
5
Here's an example of what the Clinton Foundation does right. There's lots else (trees in Africa, health care around the world).
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/23/opinion/hurricane-puerto-rico-electricity.html
"Our organization, the Rocky Mountain Institute, works with the Clinton Foundation, international and regional partners, governments and utilities to help Caribbean island nations switch to modern and regionally abundant solar and wind power. Those efforts were going well before the latest hurricanes. Solar arrays in the Turks and Caicos Islands and on Cooper Island in the British Virgin Islands, among others, survived the hurricanes without damage and were able to provide electricity to nearby communities."
26
Thanks for proving why most Americans detest the Clintons. America’s kids can’t read, minorities live in neighborhoods where chaos reigns and police are rebuked anytime law enforcement attempts to establish safe conditions; welfare rolls are overflowing with ill whom are kids born to mothers too poor to care for them; and illegal aliens invade without any concern for our laws, depressing already depressed wages; and we incur a Trillion Dollar Deficit while maintaining a ludicrously large War Department.
In response to our broke and collapsing government and culture, the Clintons take our charitable donations overseas.
7
Regardless of how one feels about the Clintons, it is a remarkable phenomenon that someone can win the popular vote for President by 3 million and then, a scant two years later, rack up a 36 percent approval rating. That says something important -- though I'm not exactly sure what -- about the country, and about the fluidity of public/media images. Surely, Hillary herself has done relatively little in these two years to produce such a massive shift.
13
@Michael
I think a lot of Hillary's disapproval or drop has been regarding column's like this and not doing due diligence in comparing what the Trump family and Foundation have done to rip off the country.
Trump and the GOP have smeared, lied and used a television network in Fox to damage the Clinton's and it seems to have worked, especially now that the campaign is over and no one points out that the Clinton Foundation is still working to do good for the world and Trump Foundation was found to be a scam for self-dealing.
34
@Michael The popular vote is really irrelevant since candidates don't even campaign or advertise in enemy territory and many voters don't even bother since their vote, like republicans in CA or NY, doesn't matter.
3
@Michael - In fact her approval rating has been basically low since late 2015. So this is nothing new. The "36% approval rating" appears to come from a Gallup poll conducted last September (link below). Gallup has been tracking her rating for decades. Since late 2015 it has bounced around between 39-44%. So the recent drop to 36% is really only a blip on the chart, more of the same low ratings she has had since well before the election.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/243242/snapshot-hillary-clinton-favorable-rating-low.aspx
2
Not sure what you have against the Clintons, Ms. Dowd, but I do think Hilary Clinton shouldn't run again (I voted for her in 2008 primary and 2016). But I don't think ANY of the people running or thinking about it currently should either. We need a young Joe Biden, wherever he or she is, who is. I love many of the people who have been mentioned, but some of them are just too old (stay in the Senate and keep doing what you're doing) and a lot of the others might be more successful in the future. As for you, I wish you'd stop writing about the Clintons. Just give it up.
25
Does Ms. Dowd make money writing about the Clintons and Trump? I think it has been a nice living for her. Why should she give it up if she can subsist and prosper on pointing out their numerous foibles. The media and voters, along with the electoral college, who no one seems want to change has provided us with a governmental “stress test” no one asked for. I pray that the obvious problems associated with the current administration comes to an end one way or another. And if we don’t like Ms. Dowd’s writings we should wrap fish with it.
"Orange, puffier clown fish...most destructive forces in American history description is also what is wrong with Democrats. Trump is loudly and visibly working to fulfill his promises to his base. This was the downfall of both Obama and Hillary. The rust belt and heartland of America was promised, promised, promised and then promptly ignored and tossed aside for elitism and Hollywood. There should be regrets.
Why can't old, lifetime politicians go quietly into retirement? Do your job, do it well, and then go. Make room for the next person to do the same. Democrats just voted for Pelosi again for goodness sake. They never learn.
18
@Alyson Pelosi has been the most effective Speaker in history. The Dems were right to let her lead again. The last thing we need is to win the House and then have some inexperienced Representative blow it. Let's get through this dangerous period with an experienced person, then we can let the new folks lead.
1
@Alyson
Hillary has what I call the Springsteen Problem. He sings poetically and meaningfully for the disenfranchised and unfortunate but they voted in mass against the party with their best interests for a false hope of redemption.
1
What about Reagan’s 2 million dollar speech/tour in Japan after his tenure in office?
30
Hillary is whip-smart with a wide range of high-level experience. She ran for president in 2008 and 2016 and lost, although 2016's results deserve an asterisk. She'll be 73 in two years.
Besides his incompetent, criminal and traitorous actions, Trump has demonstrated the presidency is no place for people in their 70s. The attention that Hillary, Joe Biden, and Bernie Sanders enjoy should be focused on younger candidates.
6
@Bruce87036 Bruce, I'm tired of being the "rah rah" girl for candidates who do not inspire.
We need someone to bring us together. We need someone to actually make a difference. All of those people are very, very elderly now (I speak as a middle aged woman).
Let them go. Let the new guys come up in the ranks and try to right the wrongs. The older guys had their chance.
1
Put yourself in a time machine and imagine that Mike Pompey is storing all his 33,000 work emails exclusively on a server in his basement, has them destroyed after they are subpoenaed and orders his aides to destroy their phones with hammers?
Would congressional democrats get suspicious if they got wind of this?
At least half the country did in 2016. It’s why Hillary can’t win again either
8
When these people left office I, a lifelong democrat, called them the grifters. in 2000 and 2004 I voted for Ralph Nader rather than the democratic candidates. In 08 and 12 I was proud to vote for Obama/Biden, yet in 2016 I had to vote for Mrs. Grifter only because the republican candidate was so odious . Please, Grifters, disappear and let America limp forward from your greed and avarice.
7
@raymond
And voting for Nader let Bush win. How’d the whole gulf war 2 work out for the country?
There’s no moral high ground in voting for 3rd party candidates.
16
I get it Maureen Dowd. You don't like former President Bill Clinton or his wife former Senator and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. Apparently someone overestimated the size of crowd they could draw to speeches in Toronto, Canada. Enough Said. As I read this article I wondered several things. How many tickets could Pres. Donald Trump expect to sell for $177.00 to a speech in Toronto? What would that event be like? I doubt he would have the nerve to even hold such an event. Toronto is different from his red state safety zone. But, more importantly, what did the Clinton's speak about. According to a few Canadian newspaper articles I found, they spoke about human rights, integration in society, the common sense Canadian approach to immigration, America's declining role on the world stage and the growing inequality and opportunity in American society. Probably their thoughts and comments on these topics are more important than the number of empty seats or even something else you didn't mention, how many people did attend and possibly learn from the Clinton's experienced insight. Let's face it Ms Dowd, the Clinton's speeches, in the big picture are far more important than your repetitively prejudiced newspaper opinions.
34
Yet H. Clinton will be the 2020 democrat nominee.
2
Wow. Surprising article, as democrats are the most closed-minded people I know, never questioning or criticizing the party.
5
@Krause You obviously don't know us very well. I know many Liberal people who were less than thrilled with Hillary for a while now.
4
interesting to see the NYT (or its representative) finally witness what so many of us have known for years. the clintons are interested in money and power, and anything that serves to help them acquire it. almost laughable how long it took you....
7
The Clinton’s over stayed their public welcome, time to say goodnight...
3
Surely the empty seats and the weak revenue from ticket sales will break through their bubble more thoroughly than anything else.
Better this columnist detail how Betsy Devos is putting the profit back in for-profit education, how Eric Prince is angling to privatize the 17 year old war in Afghanistan for bigger profits, or how Wilbur Ross is out-grifting the grifter-in-chief. Crimes of, like, you know, 2018, not 1998.
21
That Rian Johnson ruined Star Wars is a pity.
That in some poor countries cats are referred to as "roof chicken" is a pity.
That the Clintons can’t fill half a hockey rink in a country where Anne Murray packed stadiums is karma.
6
So, when can we stop writing about them?
7
As humans Bill and Hillary are despicable and Mo does a good job of describing them and their delusions. As a liberal that supports Democrats and despises republicans, I hope the support Hillary currently seeks for another run at the White House is as meager as the audience in Toronto. The republican-lite Clintons need to go away, with their self proclaimed "centrist" nonsense. As an aside, Mo I hope your employer picked up the $177, or you can write it off, what a waste of $177!
8
Time to kick back and enjoy the grandchildren.
2
Maureen, I have two points:
1. How about you take the first step, and stop covering them.
2. Your reference to the drain is very short sighted. Obama plays the long game. How about looking into that?
5
They need to go away. Now.
7
LOL. Obama misread the anger and frustration of the voters ? Ya Think ? America suffered eight long years of the worst recovery, ever. Lowest GDP, ever. Most divisive President, ever. Obama was the biggest con ever played on the USA.
Keep putting out of touch limousine liberals that hate America on the ballot dems, we will keep electing Trumps.
4
The only divisiveness of President Obama was to be Democrat and Black. All his speech and actions attempted to unite with those who don’t want to be united. From the beginning of Obama’s election the Republican leadership and Fox public ally stated obstruction and set out to ensure a platform to that effect.
The precedence for this was set by the Gingrich leadership during Bill Clinton’s Presidency.
Please at least try to seek facts and truth.
7
So what would you have them do? Disappear? Fade away? Move to an island somewhere? Yes, this IS how we treat our elders..ignoring their experience and wisdoms learned. And what is wrong after the service they have given this country and the abuse they’ve received, with them creating wealth for themselves and their future generations. Do we not live in a capitalist society? Stop with you amchair progressive rantings. I fear you’ve swallowed the lies and contribute to the misperceptions. The American worker was stolen by lies, misinformation, Russian thefts, political collusion, and voter
disenfranchisement...not by the past leaders of the Democratic Party abandoning them.
677
@Bon Bill Clinton exploited women, including a 22 year old intern and turned coward refusing to accept responsibility for his vile acts as soon as focus groups concluded he could get away with it. He pushed the repeal of Glass-Steagall, as Hillary profited from high risk derivative trades and caused thousands of young black men to be incarcerated unjustly while Hillary ran interference, describing them as "thugs." The 2020 election is about saving America by electing one of the several superb, Democratic, up and coming, women leaders. It is not about Hillary. Bill can make all the money he wants. Just get out of our collective faces with the smug, sanctimonious, self pity.
37
@Bon You would ask them to do what Carter and Bush’s did, yes, go away and do good, not enrich yourself
30
@Bon: "So what would you have them do? Disappear? Fade away? Move to an island somewhere?"
Yes.
29
Great column by Maureen Dowd. Only last week Hillary, with no sense of irony, was calling on Europe to get a handle on its immigration problem, as though what she thinks matters -- and as though she didn't have a hand in creating the problem in the first place. The woman -- and her husband --will not stop. This column brings home the poignancy of it. Yet meanwhile, the Clintons and their money machine are still pulling the reigns of Democratic politics seeking to undermine progressive politicians. Hopefully they will get the message from the empty auditorium. Probably not.
10
Hilary won the 2016 election for Trump.
Be done and away with her!
11
And you seriously wonder, Maureen, why we elected Trump? what choice did we have? The Democrats refused to offer ANY CHOICES except for Hillary! she was their "Anointed One" from two years in advance of the election.
I have to admit to being mystified why the Clinton's think in anyway that touring CANADA means anything to anyone.
10
Saw the show in Montreal.
We are not particularly partisan. We went because my wife read Hilary’s book and we are both mesmerized by the goings on in American politics these days - as is anyone on the planet who owns a television.
The evening and attendance was as described by Mrs. Dowd. The arrogance was also palpable. We were hoping for a much more political evening but it was all about their relationship, family and some leadership learnings. I even wondered if they were avoiding the subject of Trump because they feared a Twitter rage the next day. Bill had his moments but he seemed to lose his train of thought - a lot. Hilary was definitely the queen in exile, how fitting we were in Canada.
The whole thing had the feel of old school Champagne Socialism.
I think it’s time for a new generation to take things forward.
24
This time as in the last ,the Clintons only are posed to turn the Nations wealth and resources over to the bankers who made them rich.As Obama did and now getting the proceeds of hundreds of millions .Only with President Trumps Presidency ,there's no quid for pro ,not really ,and that is why he will be reelected in 2020.
7
I'm not sure an arena in Toronto is the best way adjudicate the value the Clintons have been to this country and their service they've given.
Has there been self-service? Of course. But to be honest, I really don't give a fig. They started, singly, with virtually nothing, and made silk purses of the sow's ears fate dealt them.
Are they tone deaf? Yep. They have many unfortunate human failings, and then some. A sense of entitlement may be one of the worse. Yet, there is all that service.
In a relatively short span of time we went from "A Place Called Hope," and "The Audacity of Hope," to the liberal wing of the Democratic party cutting its own throat by tepidly supporting HC's candidacy. It was stupid. Bernie Sanders isn't even a Democrat for christ's sake. That's how stupid it was.
Ms. Dowd, if you really feel sorry for the Clintons, then don't write about how sorry you feel about the Clintons. Just let them do what they do. I have a strange feeling that there is still enough history left to right their ship. Look at GHW Bush. He took us to war to defend a country 99% of Americans couldn't find on a map along with the narrow interests business associates and old school mates, which started a fuse that led to 9/11 and the endless War on Terror. But today, upon his passing, you'll not read an unkind thing about the guy. So give the Clintons some slack. At least they didn't start a war that will never end.
11
How can we call Trump an egomaniac with these two prowling the hemisphere, groveling for relevance?
Please, Clintons, accept your place in history and yield the future to the innovators. And take Nancy Pelosi with you.
8
Everything these days has a date stamp on it. Look through the fridge. It determines freshness. The Clintons reached theirs a long time ago. Not that he bothered to take note, Bill was put out to pasture long ago. Hillary bounced around from First Lady to Senator the Sec of State. Then she went "all in" with her run in 2016 and lost to a buffoon. Like Gertrude Stein said of Oakland while peering across the bay from San Francisco... "there is no there there". HRC proved it emphatically about herself when she lost to Trump. She was all hat and no cattle. Yes, she won the popular vote but she failed to crack the electoral code. Her campaign, run by their stalwart group of Clinton Machine stalwarts blew it. If she runs in 2020, and hopefully she won't, she will lose. Time to retire. Spend so money, have some fun. Live a little. The Clinton days are over.
10
Maureen this is one of the best pieces you’ve ever written. So true. It’s so hard for them to believe they are now irrelevant.
I believe the Obamas are headed for the same fate. We need a new, younger breed of political visionaries.
9
Miss Dowd:
I hope I am wrong but I get the impression you're still trying to rationalize your dislike and visceral revulsion to Hillary (and Bill) Clinton. Hillary didn't lose because of your columns. That's OK. You made your point and we respect your position. They are very far from perfect and far from some of the more noble individuals who have resided on 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. But no matter what you or your brother may feel they are still orders of magnitude above the present man in the White House and far less tawdry and corrupt. And let's not go into the intelligence domain. But, please find other more relevant topics to cover on your wonderfully penned pieces. How about the looming ecological and climate crisis and our official lack of concern? Or the threats to our judicial and legal system and way of life? Or perhaps the depressing and embarrassing handling of the immigration problem? The Clintons, in spite of they may want to believe, are really history. Let's move on.
16
Why did the National Democratic Party not realize how irrelevant Hilary Clinton had become (in 2016)? And how hated she was by so many Americans (I don't understand the hatred, but one sure reads enough about it). Will they (NDP) push her again in 2020?
Dowd - good article!
6
And yet for all this, you voted for him. You voted for her. And if she ran again, you would vote for her again as would you’re loyal readers here. LOL.
3
I’m thankful every day that Hillary Clinton is not President
13
Ms. Dowd has been heroic in her willingness to tell the truth about the Clintons.
10
I can’t wait for Obama to get the same treatment on Netflix'
7
We need to lose this idea that Clinton was cheated out of victory in 2016. The national Democratic Party lost here in the middle of the country because its candidate was out of touch with the concerns and needs of many people in the region. Trump's victory was legitimate and he'll win again (I fear) if the party doesn't realize this fundamental fact. They pushed Bernie Sanders away, in favor of Clinton, even though Sanders appeared to bridge the gap between traditional liberals, doing all right in the information economy, and others, not so liberal perhaps, who feel cheated by it. The party needs to recover its working class base if it is to defeat Trump in 2020.
11
It could be the twin deficits, trade and U.S. debt. The monies that flow into Wall Street, the redistribution of wealth upwards, and the hollowing out of U.S. society despite the excess capital may be coming home to roost.
2
It’s not a pity. It’s time. So many older and old school Democrats are holding too tightly to the center stage and the spotlight. Too many want their time to continue. But it is time for change or Democrats will not hold what has just been earned. Focus on bringing forth the next generation. On truly understanding the challenges and fears facing the mass of Americans. Shift their focus from themselves to America. We are in crisis and so far these elder statesmen focus on themselves. As for the Clintons, goodbye and goodnight.
9
What the Clintons haven't yet come to terms with is that it's certain as many people voted for Hillary because she wasn't Trump as voted for Trump because he wasn't Hillary. These were two immensely unlikable candidates and neither personality has improved with hindsight (professional ability, which only Mrs. Clinton possesses, notwithstanding). It matters little that Clinton did 3 million votes better - she garnered those votes non-strategically and so not only lost the election by the slimmest of margins, she proved her team will not prevail in future. We've seen how much damage can be done to the country with a corrupt, selfish, self-serving family at the helm. Let's please not take a chance on repeating the 2016 fiasco with Bozo's re-election! Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. Please don't let it be the Democratic party in 2020.
1
Keith Richards is sponsored by Fender Guitars.
Hillary Clinton is sponsored by Robitussin...
5
I hope Obama doesn't go the same route altho that event with Jim Baker and Jon Meachem that was reported on in the Times doesn't leave me much hope. His message? We should compromise, go center, be reasonable - all this after 8 years of obstruction from Mitch and the gang and an election that was highjacked by a cesspool of con men and the Russians.
6
Bill and Hillary,
Here is some free advice my mother gave me:
You can never see the whole picture when you're in the frame.
Happy Holidays!
10
We need Clinton to run again like we need Donald to run again. We just don't
4
In a word, projection.
4
"Narcissistic megalomaniac" is the Rorschach image of Hillary Clinton that pops into my mind. The woman knows no bounds and will not be stopped by facts or truth, like the fact that people can't stand her and think she is is liar. That's why she polls at or even below Trump. Seriously? How bad do you have to be to poll below Trump but she does and just blithely continue on her merry way giving speeches and playing the blame game. And you are right Maureen, I do worry that our recent neoliberal couple, the Obamas, see the Clintons as a roll model. What else could explain Obama going to Wall Street with his tin cup in hand?
17
@FXQ
They are ALL what they tell us nobody should be. Greedy, elite, disconnected from the reality of life in the US, unconcerned about the effect of their policies on the average American citizen, uncaring about the damage their grand ideas do to the guy paying a mortgage, buying groceries,putting gas in his car, and trying to live life.
They are ALL what they say they hate.
Rich, elite, disconnected, uncaring Kings and Queens. And, they ALL lie about it.
Tell me, how different is Hillary and Bills lifestyle from Trumps ? How different.
How different are their attitudes about the people around them ? Ever hear the secret service talk about how gracious and friendly Hillary is ? How about Bill and the #metoo movement ?
They all lie, and use us and our money to live like royalty. Now Barry and Michelle are selling themselves to put a mountain of cash in their account. Nice.
9
grotesque people...if the democratic party cannot shuck off big-business pelosi who is hitting 80, then they deserve hillary in '20. i've long since given up on the two party fraud.
6
Maureen, you sound angry, jealous, and, perhaps more so, vindictive. For several past years your columns (or, more accurately, diatribes) have sounded like the "wicked witch" from Hades and your expressed dislike of the Clintons. Last week you wrote about your brother Kevin and even, arguably, a relevant subject describing how your brother Kevin "cringes" at some things Trump says or lies about. This week you are back to bashing the Clintons for their professed "greed." Shameful for the Clintons if this be true. But equally shameful writing and focus by you too.
With ten other critical boondoggles being fostered by Trumpism -- from climate bashing and denial to gun control denial, to the inability to find hundreds of refugee children stolen by our American border guards from their parents, to some baffling disclosures about Trump's lawyer negotiating $50 million condo gifts to Putin -- your choice of topics is baffling.
If you lack story lines or subjects to write about, how about explaining what Kevin finds "cringe" worthy? A story like that could be informative and still allow you an opportunity to show off your once acclaimed wit, humor, and muckraking perceptiveness.
17
Very funny column. The Clintons are everything this op-ed describes: venal, self-obsessed, shallow, money-grubbing, amoral vipers, without a moral compass or compassion for anyone but themselves. Glad to hear they are addressing half-filled sport stadiums. They are gross. Bad people through and through. They should go away.
9
I agree. Is a pity. Instead of rolling around to reinvent themselves, they should stay put in their home, participate in Dems fundraising, and mentor newcomers. Although Pres Clinton is feeling the pressure of the #MeToo movement, it cannot be denied he has great political instincts that may serve to future candidates; the same goes for Mrs. Clinton. They can serve in very different ways now as elders. They must understand that a new generation just arrived.
4
Just like a sports star who hangs on one season too long, Mrs. Clinton seems unable to face the sad reality that SHE LOST. She lost the 2008 Democratic nomination to President Obama, and she lost the 2016 general election to that satanic rodeo clown Donald J. Trump. The "justice" of politics is simple and severe. If you win, everybody loves you and your struggle is vindicated. If you lose, nobody knows you and you are banished to obscurity. There are no second (or third) chances in Presidential politics. Mrs. Clinton had her shot. She blew it. It is time for her to retire gracefully--and to take Bubba with her.
373
@Jack Connolly Nixon got a second chance. But that's it.
10
@Jack Connolly
Ever hear of Richard Nixon?
For the record, Clinton won 3 million more votes than the person currently occupying the WH. Only in America.
35
@Jack Connolly No second or third chances in American politics? Tell that to Grover Cleveland or Richard Nixon. Or William Jennings Bryan who ran three times, or Henry Clay who ran four.
30
77 per cent of Democrats still like Hillary. Given the large number of Democratic politicians who have expressed interest in putting their names forward, she just might be re-nominated and go on to win the election
3
@Diogenes
Pigs will fly before Hillary becomes President. She’ll be 70+ before the next election, she was exhausted in the last one. Speaking as a senior citizen, how about somebody in their 50’s as the nominee.
5
It is like "Willie Mays for the Mets". Here was this graceful superstar for the NY Giants/SF Giants, stumbling around in the outfield for the NY Mets. Everyone knew is was over and it was depressing to watch.
6
Actually, it's not a pity they're irrelevant, it's deserved. The most recent response to Monica Lewinski and the Clinton Affair story is proof positive. They're just as delusional as the man in the White House. Ditto for Chelsea.
11
"It's a pity." Indeed it is, and I hope the Clintons get a clue and Dowd never has to write another column about them, as this was a fine closing. The Charlie Peters' quote was about as concise and accurate as you can get it gauging the immense damage the Clintons (et al.) have done to a viable liberal/left.
13
I agree, it's time for the Clintons to stop, and it is time for Maureen to stop writing about the Clintons. It's over!
6
After watching the Clinton Affair on A&E, so much old is new again. Witch hunts and such. Yet what resonated most is that the Clintons are the champions of the longest con in American history.
17
Please Bill and Hillary, go away, far away. And don’t come back.
14
And Ms. Dowd, your public service has been?
I'll wait...
23
@Mr. Sheldon she's done plenty of public service as a commentator. but i assume you're referring to her failure to run for office. i guess she's not willing to sell her soul to the big-money guys.
2
No worries, The Clinton’s will still be a hot ticket when they hop back across the border and deliver a few very well paid and attended speeches for their base at Goldman and AIPAC. What’s disgusting are the number of people attacking Maureen, a clear case of shoot the messenger.
10
@Ted- I think the response is due to her body of work.
2
@Ima right: You’re right, right.
Luckily, a majority of American's saw this realization well before the 2016 Presidential elections and voted for her opponent.
What is amazing is that it's taken this long for the Clinton Supporters to finally realize what they were, and what they are today.
What is also amazing is that you were told all this time and again, yet you chose to ignore it because of your arrogance.
13
If you hate them so much, Maureen, why did you pay $177 for a seat in the arena, buy an airline ticket to Toronto and spend the night in what I presume was a pricey hotel?
18
I’m sure the Times paid.
1
The NYT paid for it. Or you paid for 35% of it as she deducted it on her taxes.
1
Christy. I can assure you not a nickel came out of her pocket
1
I have never agreed with Maureen Dowd's opinions of Hillary Clinton until today. Now, about Bernie ...
5
Donald Trump could not have said it any better Maureen.
7
There you go again, Maureen, finding a new reason to talk about the Clintons. I think I've been wrong about you all along. Now I think you really, really like them. The opposite of hate is indifference and you can not just leave them alone! LOL.
7
PLEASE you are not helping, you are probably right that they are irrelevant and can't face it, but why in the world you think we need one more pathologically embittered rant from YOU on this topic I can't imagine.
If you think they should be ignored, then why don't you try ignoring them.
28
Down is at it again. She promoted false equivalence between Clinton and trum in 2016, enabling trump’s victory. Now she is concentrating on irrelevancies, again enabling trump. What a hypocrite and coward she is.
23
You don't really feel sorry for the Clintons, do you, because that would involve even some small level of compassion? You're just still looking for another low-blow opportunity to take a swing at them. Take your own advice and move along, Ms. Dowd; maybe you'll find something positive to say about someone or something and it could make us all feel better.
18
HR Clinton ran the left and DNC in to the ground before and during Obama's presidency. Obama had very few flaws but one of them was never being able to take the helm of the left and DNC from HR. Her back room antics and subterfuge created the left's national coma which allowed the opportunistic infection of the Nov 2016 Coup. The Putin-Fox-NRA-Gingrich cabal had a field day. Now that their rot and sickness is slowly being flushed phase II of their evil plans are unfolding as their followers reportedly turn to paramilitary madness. HR, you are very bad for America.
5
@Alex: Very well said. President Obama could have been our finest President since Carter, possibly the greatest ever considering what he inherited, if HRC and Wasserman Schultz and the powers behind them had allowed it, instead it was business as usual, Wall Street got bailed out, Main Street got scraps and wars for special interests continued: We got Trump, empty promises and tax cuts for the rich, thanks DNC.
1
Nothing thought provoking here. Just a snide piece.
21
Precious Maureen: Don't you get it? Every male humanoid in creation who has ever been hectored by a woman with a raspy voice and an arrogant, even brilliant, tongue is weary of this woman and her brilliant husband. Believe it or not, the world is big enough to contain other Democrats like Xavier Becerra who would be a terrific President. Believe it or not, Alan Simpson, the smart, cynical Republican once told that to me when I encountered by chance in his hometown of Cody, Wyoming. Move on, Mo. The world has.
[With apologies to a famous song and its lyricist...]
Two grifters off to fleece the world,
There’s such a lot of world yet to fleece,
They used the Party, yes, the Democratic Party,
To get what they wanted... next: Senator Chel-sea!
Just one more tour, who will ever know,
How much of your dough they still crave?
Hillary’s fan dance, 'cuz for 2020 there’s no chance,
Keeps fools paying money to hear these fools bray.
Billary Clinton! Why can’t you guys leave?
I think many would be pleased, if I may say...
Now, there’s the exit... it’s easier than Brexit!
Wherever she’s going, Bill, please go her way!
Two world-class grifters, off to grift the world,
But, it's a Clinton-fatigued world, you see,
Now, what remains...
If it can ever be...
Attempt Number Three...
President Hillary...?
Two grifters and... not me.
6
Well played Clifford. Great song.
1
I ask myself, why is it with Ms Dowd's known dislike of the Clintons she would bother to attend their presentation in Toronto?
Ms. Dowd most of us are aware that the Clintons are past their primetime, you too must be aware also. So why do you continue to write about them? You might want to look at yourself and ask why? Or better yet, get some counseling.
12
Maureen, the passing of your relevance must be painful. But your pathological need to stay in the limelight with anti-Hillary columns is painful to watch.
It's a pity.
28
Maureen, for 27 years your columns have dazzled me and disgusted me. Maybe it's time for you to give the Clintons, and Barry, a rest.
6
Clintons, yes. Obama, no. People need to understand that he is gorging at the same paid speech trough that the Clintons did.
3
Hillary, Go Away.
7
Maureen, do us all a favor. Please? Stop "covering" the Clintons. Everyone will be better for it. Even you.
12
When I think of the Clintons--$$$$$+EGOS
6
Dowd does not appear to appreciate the irony of her own column. Like Trump, Clinton-bashing has always been "money" in Dowd's repertoire, as well. Her insights on them were really all she has left to offer. With the Clintons now fading to history, Dowd doesn't seem to appreciate that her own relevance is lost. Curtains for the Clintons. Curtains for Maureen Dowd.
10
Maureen, you need to get some anger management help. Why the obsession with the Clintons?
Maybe you should go back to being a sports reporter.
Lighten up already.
11
Maureen I don’t think you feel sorry for them at all. I think you’re feeling self satisfaction that you did a job well.
2
I always wonder why Ms. Dowd and the NY Times don'et recognize that it is time for her to turn to other pursuits. There is only one subject on her mind, and it has always been her resentment and hatred of all Clintons. Who knows what they did to her to inspire her unending jealous rage, but that does not lead me to feel sorry for her. Ms. Dowd is a competent writer, who deserves a job somewhere where she can accomplish some good. Her totally predictable mean-spirited tirades, taunts, jabs and insults against our past president and the candidate who won the majority in 2016 are unworthy of this paper.
14
"...an orange puffer clown fish who will go down as one of the most destructive forces in American history and flushing the Obama legacy down the drain..."
The Democratic Party, exemplified by the Clintons, have been far more destructive than the orange puffer clown fish. Their determinations to ignore the minor detail that not all of America is an urban leftist enclave and to try to impose urban leftism on a country 90-plus percent of the counties of which utterly reject it, is tearing the country apart.
Particularly Hillary, she of the "deplorables" comment... That was right up there with "Let them eat cake." in making a lot of Americans wonder if we could borrow a guillotine. But the pair of them, Billary, have never given a damn about America, even the urban America they cater to. They're just in it for the power and the money.
And, PS, as complete a jerk as the orange puffer clown fish is, history will honour him for "flushing the Obama legacy down the drain."
10
Maureen,
The fact that you paid to go see these two greedy megalomaniacs shows how gullible you are.
1
@Sebastien actually she’s a reporter
1
after reading many comments---why is it so difficult for most NYT readers to accept that Bill and Hill have personally capitalized on their public service more than any two politicians in history--by far-- and they are still at it!! It's ridiculous. When are their next books coming out?
21
700 speeches in 15 years: an average of one speech every 8 days. What did they have to say that anyone would want to listen that many times?
14
Their time has come and gone and Hillary got cheated in a Trump con, but there needs to be a younger and different and less affluent voice speaking for the majority of Americans as our president.
The median income is $52,500 in America and most of the 325M Americans cannot relate to billionaires, millionaires or even trillionaires. We live in a separate universe and need a leader who speaks our language and does not come from another planet. In most cases a planet of total greed and avarice from a one percent who refuses to infuse the economy by sharing their obscene wealth.
7
@Andrea Landry Obama was the only president in the last 100 years to truly embody the values Americans claim this country represents. Yet instead of working with him he was villified, racialized, blocked as a strategy largely by
republicans with whom 50% of Americans can’t relate. They want the demigod to capitalizes on their deep, unfoinded fears.
Poor Hillary and Bill. In the company I worked for in the 90s Bill would have been discreetly fired for his antics. Having sex in the office with an intern was the least of their errors. Support for the Iraq invasion, gutting the SEC and laws protecting us from corporate greed, accepting rather than opposing the vindictive criminal punishment system, and the list goes on. Anyone can see their egregious errors with the benefit of hindsight -- anyone but Bill and Hillary it seems. They would still have a place if they would just do that and help the country learn.
11
". . . introspection has never been within the Clintons’ range."
Exactly. The inability to reflect upon how one's actions and speech impact the broader society; in other words, narcissism bordering on sociopathology. Sorry, I have immense difficulty feeling badly for folks like them, unless they're so poor that their options are severely limited. Clearly that's not the Clintons' problem.
Oh, and Ms. Dowd, it's NEOliberalism. Mistaking either of them for genuine liberals is akin to mistaking a predatory carnivore for a sedate leaf-browser.
8
Perhaps the Clinton's are past their prime, and I am now indifferent to them, but this feels a little bit like kicking them when they are down. That said, Hillary and Bernie look lots better to me than the Warren, Booker, Harris choices the Dems are serving up.
7
@LTJ Exactly, this is an op piece that is trying to get a dig on the Clinton's. They don't need our pity, why not concentrate on Russian hacking, I suspect the riots in France are fueled by that. We have a lot more to worry about than this.
2
Actually Bill Clinton just did post/say something relevant about the passing of George H.W. Bush. And I was pleased to read his well written reflection.
6
Alas Maureen, at long last, your dream has come true. The Clintons are truly and finally done. Make no mistake, you were part of the howling mob that has brought them to this time and place. And your glee shines through this ironic column.
14
It is sad to see Hillary Clinton being as obtuse about herself as that narcissist Donald Trump. Bill and Hillary indeed are a sad couple who were once friends with the Trumps. There was a sad ending to Bill Clinton's presidency that sunk remembrances of his accomplishments. Hillary is a poor candidate for office as for some reason she can't exude warmth. Yes I voted for her, but after loosing to of all people Trump does she think Democrats would let her run again. We're not suicidal. Chelsea sit down and have a talk with your parents about going quietly into this good night.
I too worry that the Obama's, for all their dignity shown in the White House, may be heading down this path. A Netflix show, please say no.
12
No pity from me. They deserve ridicule and shunning. They are every bit as narcissistic as Trump. The damage they have done is more stealth but every bit as corrosive. I too fear the Obama’s post presidency public posturing. Their shine will to wear off although to even mention them in the same paragraph as the Clintons and Trump is unfair. They did however, push HRC as the nominee over Joe Biden, who although, bereaved by his personal loss would have found purpose and success in a POTUS run. Obama provided HRC a global platform for the funneling of cash for favors. Please, don’t feign shock and attempt to defend the Clinton Foundation’s audacious money grab. That’s what is appeared to be and more and more I have learned to trust appearances. The days of still waters running deep are gone, quaint in this day of open hubris, ambition and greed. If it quacks it is, didn’t Yogi say that?
11
The Clintons are long past their sell-by date in our politics. Ms. Clinton made her run and lost to the buffoon from Queens due to the magic of gerrymandering.
It is time to pass the torch to another generation (I belong to the same generation as the Clintons), a generation who can breathe life back into a political system suffering from intertribal warfare (Trump is not that person to end the warfare, he is a perpetrator of the warfare).
While true the Clintons, the Obamas, the Bush family have all capitalized on their previous status, that is our way. Had they profited from their office like another president is doing then there should be concern.
But, time for the Clintons to retire quietly, or at least donate to the fine charity that Jimmy Carter is so fond of.
8
@Dan gerrymandering? Really?
3
The Clintons abandoned the Democratic base and marginalized progressives, or rather anyone who cared about working people. If she runs again she will lose again. Ditto Chelsea.
11
@Zejee, well...the problem really is that celebrities embraced the Clintons who began to live in celebrityville..remember the picture of Hillary being hugged by Weinstein. Because the Clintons were a celebrity magnet, they attracted loads of money for the democratic party who then became synonymous with Hollywood, entertainment stars, Silicon Valley, wall Street....
No wonder blue collar workers, rust belt folks, people in Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, gave democrats a pass...back in 2016. Hillary totally failed to excite them.
3
From someone that attended the event in Toronto - you completely exaggerated the number of empty seats. It normal for that arena to cordon off for speaking engagements versus a sporting event or big name concert act.
The talk was fantastic. Bill in particular was eloquent and quite informative reminding us of his stellar intellect and of the events of the past that brought conflicting factions together such as: Northern Ireland and the Republic; Kosovo, Oslo and others. He spoke to current events with a keen grasp of world events. He has not lost his charm or his sense of humour even if his voice is not as strong as it once was. Hillary was even more of a welcome voice as she too spoke intelligently and frankly about the state of the world. She was warm and surprisingly displayed a sense of humour not seen on the campaign trail. The moderator was the weakest presence on the stage that night. The next day the US headlines falsely stated they avoided the topic of Lewinsky. It simply wasn't brought up as a question and rightly so. I didn't attend to have their personal dirty laundry aired, I went to listen to two very valid opinions about the world that includes the "post truth" eras we all find ourselves trying to understand. I paid C$100 for an excellent seat well in advance. Did you opt for the VIP section? Give it up, your disdain for the Clintons is tired. If you're not interested, don't listen and leave us to decide if we want to hear from them. I do.
26
@Katie3b ~
Your comment deserves to be a NYT pick. It strikes me as an objective and honest description of the event.
Thank you.
5
@Mary Ann Donahue
I second your comment about it being normal practice to curtain off half of large sports arenas for non sporting events.
A few years a go when I saw the legendary rock superstar David Bowie at the sports arena in San Jose, CA, they curtailed off half of the arena.
Someone who is so out of touch with what is going on in their own country, with what its citizens truly want and need to survive, deserves to be ignored. Clinton is like so many other politicians, GOP and Dem, that are completely unresponsive to their constituents. Agreed there were definitely challenges to her run in 2016, but the main catalyst was her refusal to see the frustrating unrest simmering around her and the very real un-ignorable winds of progressive change. Couple that with the fact that the Democratic Party did not do enough for working people and minorities, and instead backed corporations by design, and you have recipe for your own demise. Guess what -- she and every other pol with blinders on deserves it, and no-one feels sorry. Elected officials get elected to give the public relief. Once they forget that -- which let's face it, is the sole purpose of their existence -- it's time to retire.
3
My wife was born in Canada. She was simply surprised that anyone at all showed up at the Arena. Enough said.
5
As Ms Dowd eulogizes the demise of the pathetic, greedy Clintons, recounting Hillary's list of transgressions, too numerous to actually count, I am reminded that had she had her way, this despicable human being, the professional victim as it were, would now be the most powerful person on the face of God's earth. Thank goodness our country thought better and discarded her and her husband to the political curb on November 8, 2016. Welcome to the party Maureen. It is never too late.
1
Thanks to Bill and Hillary we have Trump. The Clinton long ago forgot about the CORE of the Democratic Party!
The fact that Trump won key states in the middle of the country illustrates how off Hillary’s message was.
7
I know more than one voter who went for Trump only because they 'couldn't let Hillary in.' Think about a Clinton-Pelosi monster dominating the 2020 campaign.
5
If the Clinton's can't hold themselves accountable, neither can the Democrats. Easier to concoct more and more convoluted conspiracy theories as to how and why Hillary lost, and conveniently forget how they along with their media and late-night TV enablers trashed every woman who came forth to accuse Bill of rape and sexual assault either ridiculing them -- as Hillary certainly did, too ... and Jay Leno and Bill Maher -- or various networks and newspapers' of record ignoring or minimizing them altogether (the same ones who are so righteous now over Trump's behavior or Harvey Weinstein's, or supposedly Justice Kavanaugh. At least no one has accused Trump of rape as Juanita Broaddrick did of Bill, and with far more plausible detail than anything Christine Ford or Avenatti's "witnesses" could come up with against Kavanaugh.
How the Dems cared less about jobless opioid ravaged rural whites and their increasing mortality rate in favor of transgender toilet privileges.
And while the media and progressives are all worked up over Trump's alleged Moscow Tower deal brainstorming with the insinuation Trump would have been stupid enough to commit treason in some way to steal the 2016 election in a way still not actually explained in return for the right courtesy of Putin to build a luxury condo building in the event Trump lost, let's see a credible investigation into how it is the Clinton Foundation's annual level of donations somehow suddenly dropped over 50% once Hillary lost.
10
Time to move on Ms. Dowd. History will judge the Clintons after we are all dust.
3
What does Bernie have to say ? He has stuck in there based on principle and got undermined by the DNC and friends - he is the rightful heir to 2016.
3
The Clintons have been around for a long time. They are used to being the center of attention, having people hang on their every word, be the people who others want to be with, fawned and gushed over by adoring fans. I mean being able to ride on private planes, being asked to give speeches, people really wanting to hear what you have to say! Walking into a room, and everyone crowds around! Vacationing in the best spots! Someone to bring coffee to you, do your makeup and hair each day and pick out your clothing. It's an addiction! It's very heady stuff! Then to lose it just when you think you're going to achieve your crowning achievement. And to add insult to injury to lose to Donald Trump! Imagine what they, especially Hillary, must be feeling! So they need to try to recapture something and again be relevant. I understand! They are not the only ones like this. Some people just can't let go. It's very sad.
They may be seeing Trump's rallys where the stadiums are packed and feel a bit envious...who knows?
4
2020? No. Just no.
3
"I can’t fathom why the Clintons would make like aging rock stars and go on a tour of Canada and the U.S."
At least the Beatles knew when to hang it up.
3
Hillary Clinton was a very capable person. But she has already passed her prime times. Her decision like this one described by Ms. Dowd is a good example not to vote her again. It is time for some other younger person to take up the challenges. Please give future a chance to blossom.
3
HRC is caught up in what many of us do. After we lose, or are insulted, etc...later on we have that, "That's what I should have said/done!" moment. When all the right words and actions come rushing forward. Then for a few minutes, maybe a day or two we fantasize that we're gonna do it right the next time.
"I'll get him next time!"
But most of us let it go. We just move on.
HRC can't let go. Probably replays that debate, the TrumpStalking debate, and has now armed herself with all sorts of snappy come-backs, pithy feminist taunts, etc...and wants to get back in there and try them out.
Her best bet is to take a few steps back, evaluate the field, take note of polling, see who in the Dem party has the better shot in 2020, and aid him/her...but stay off the radar.
No one in 2020 needs Trump sniping that HRC is their campaign advisor.
2
This column pillories Hillary Clinton for being defeated by Donald Trump, but remember that she won the popular vote by three million votes - and that's despite all she was up against, including Russian meddling, James Comey's indefensible treatment of her duplicate emails, and a pathological liar opponent. Is it really so surprising that she hasn't totally let go of running again?
Mrs. Clinton is testing the waters. If she finds enough enthusiasm for her, she can run again.
But Ms. Dowd, would you finally, please, stop the mocking and the speculating?
8
We've all become numb from the sting of the orange puffer clown fish. Maureen's poison pen makes it all that much worse. Thinking about President Obama makes me sad. When I think of Bill & Hillary, I get mad. For whatever reason, Hillary just couldn't connect to the angry American worker who has been cheated and abused for the last 30 years. The price of that anger and abuse is President Donald J. Trump. We will be paying this bill for generations. At the end of it, there will be nothing left but ashes and concrete.
3
Bravo. These two are the worst of the worst. But the Obamas or catching up quickly with their gazillion dollar book tours.
6
There's a French word for the author of this piece was well as its subjects: Pathetique. BTW, the last sentence should have read,
'More's the pity.'
2
How many of you remember the movie "Soapdish?"
The Clintons are like the aging and insecure heroine of that movie, who needs her moments of public adoration.
Of course, having people give you money for nothing adds to the thrill.
"The Clintons refuse to be discarded." Apparently, time for both to fade into history. Bill, besides his loose zipper, sold the Democrats to Wall Street and Corporate America not forgotten in the heartland! It is time for fresh new Democrat leadership divorced from the Clinton era. This applies to Pelosi as well, it is time for her and her aged assistants to move on and allow fresh Democrat talent to emerge, perhaps someone who knows a member of the AFL-CIO instead of Goldman Sachs. Pelosi is TOXIC in the heartland; Pelosi represents everything that is resented, a multi-millionaire wine-sipping San Francisco liberal who looks down on flyover country. Democrats are slow learners! As Will Rogers said: "I'm not a member of an organized political party, I'm a Democrat!"
4
This opinion piece is so vindictive and is so very much in line with the stuff being served to my NorthWest Georgia Trump supporting neighbors by FOX that I cannot believe I Ms Dowd can not read the handwriting on the wall. Hillary won! It is over, go away Ms. Dowd, America still loves the Clintons more than you and your favorite New Yorker.
10
The Clintons will never go away. I am already getting Democratic feelers on both how much would I like to see Hillery run in 2020, AND how much would I like to see Chelsea run for office. Anyone who has seen Chelsea on TV knows what an empty suit she is - a real monument to the meritocracy.
4
The empty seats confirm the veracity of Christopher Hitchen's title to the book he wrote of the Clintons: "Nobody Left To Lie To."
It's a just dessert for Rockefeller Republicans masquerading as Democrats. Barack Obama should take heed as he runs the same risk - he is already inducing Obama-fatigue with his tiresome, lame and predictably obvious potshots in the news.
People - far too late - have wisened up to the fact that Goldman Sachs-coziness with a dash of superficial affirmative action does not a lasting democrat, much less a progressive, make. Talking the talk without walking the walk forms no authentic legacy. Snake oil dissolves. Have I said it enough ways?
The Clintons come to Seattle May 7 on their self-aggrandizement tour. I plan to demonstrate, essentially saying what America should now say emphatically: Go Away!
5
We remember the words of Christopher Hitchens who understood the perfidy and malfeasance of the Clinton's from the beginning. Please Maureen, please don't become like one of those rock and roll writers who are still trying to make Aerosmith relevant. Find the NEXT BIG THING!!! We are all waiting.
1
Macbeth and Lady Macbeth.
1
I have no idea why the Clintons are on this tour. Maybe they just want to stay in the spotlight? As for 2020, Hillary is going nowhere fast. She may not realize it yet.
What I find so unsettling is the GOP, conservative or far-right (whatever you want to call it) obsession with the Clinton's money.
Compared to the members of the 1% in America, the Clinton's 200 millions earned in the political arena IE giving speeches is not spectacular and normal for people whose business is politics.
Are Bill and Hillary way more greedy than Newt or Wilbur or Donald? Trump would love to collect that much money from Goldman Sachs.
1
Hilary won’t win the primary in ‘20. But running could be a good thing for the party because it will keep fresh the reasons the party needs to upgrade. Hilary Clinton - Dem poster child for the reason we need change.
With what we know now, Sanders was the far better choice. Who knew?! I believe the best that we can hope for is for a young maverick to emerge as fresh meat for the grinder, with Bernie announcing he’s going all-in for that candidate, perhaps even choosing Bernie as the VP running mate.
5
Hi Maureen. Why don't you see if you can fill such a large arena with a speaking engagement? After all, you write these columns as if you think everyone wants to hear what you have to say.
12
@Larry Figdill Yet, here you are reading her column....
2
Hey! I like her. I like her a lot!
Let me tell you, Ms. Dowd, the Clintons packed the houses. Many of us (maybe millions) mourn the loss of Hillary as President. Why are you so intent on ripping them to shreds when they struggle with their own loss, not knowing yet who still wants to hear what they are saying? Does this dismissal of them serve some purpose to you? Perhaps you too don't know what to say. I pray you find some spiritual tool. Your bitterness is poignant. These two people - the Clintons - were and are still great. So many of us pray they will rebound. And many stand by them, too.
14
@Mike Frank
And millions never wanted Clinton in the 2016 primary because we knew, absolutely, that she would lose. Regardless of her qualifications and abilities, she had been demonized for too long to overcome it. That is reality, like it or not.
13
“Orange puffer clown fish”! Perfect. But what fish for the Clintons? Has to be a schooling fish. Hmmm. Barracudas. Definitely.
I agree with the former Washington Post editor who worries about the Obamas. The difference is I think they have already gone down that yellow brick road.
10
Bill's resume shaved more votes off of Hillary's pile than anything else. The non-voters, the absent ones just could not pull the trigger on the name Clinton. Too many bad vibes. Still, she was elected by popular vote clearly. Just like Al Gore. Let's thank the clear thinking of the 18th century ( good old slavery days) for the electoral college, God's gift to losers.
7
The day either Clinton leaves this earth, you will be there, making money off it.
13
"She's baaaaaaaaack!" And this time it's Maureen talking more about the Clintons that only the Irish Lass does so well.
Take a look at this one, c. 2000 when HRC was catapulted to a Senate seat in a state which she never resided/no historical ties... but Wall Street money fared well... but then again... not ;) :
https://www.nytimes.com/2000/12/24/opinion/liberties-hillary-s-stocking-stuffer.html
The Clintons have had their time; Now the torch has been passed to some very lovely and competent folks in the Party -Senate (e.g. Amy Klobuchar, Gillibrand, etc.) and otherwise (Beto) for a 2020 mulling.
4
Hillary and Bill on their worst days were miles above and beyond the abysmally ignorant and self involved thug trump. That being said, I have no love for the Clintons. They were and are their own worst enemies, but they were never the enemies of the Constitution, or of democracy, or of free speech, or of the poor, the middle classes, the working classes. They never exploited ignorance, fear, racism, misogyny or homophobia to get votes. Bill lying about oral sex will never ever come remotely close to trump's compulsive, endless lying about everything and anything. The Clinton's are politically washed up, Maureen. Give it a rest. If you want to denounce deceit, corruption, self dealing and complete destruction of anything decent in our democracy, stick to the current GOP political class and their media and oligarchic class enablers. Wasting column space on the Clintons is fiddling while Rome burns (and boring to boot).
23
I think the point here is that yes, the Clinton's are politically washed up. The party needs to move on, yet Hilary doesn't seem to be able to hear that message. The time for her and Bill to ride off into the sunset came a long time ago, yet she still continues to be a distraction. It's not helping anyone, her bruised ego aside.
Ms. Dowd, what's a pity is that the DNC and party will not come out and tell the Clinton's and public enough is enough thank you for your service but if you run which is your right you will not receive a penny from the DNC. Hades would freeze over before that would happen, I imagine.
8
I see the headline and that's enough. When will you get over them?
20
Whoa. Who among you critic's is perfect and does not make mistakes? Maureen, i'm sorry, but i cannot agree with you. The Republican's have turned her into a caricature with investigation after investigation and have NEVER found anything, or she would be in jail.That means she is innocent, yes? The same coward's have also thrown an excellent philanthropic endeavor bringing good news for many in this world into question, with no evidence, just malice, conspiracy, and back biting. They've also been investigated up the ying yang. Nothing, again.This all began after Hillary introduced a heath plan that threatened the health insurance industry. Republican's have tried to plague her ever since. Republican's lied and called it Socialism, complete with pictures of starving people, people on long lines to see doctor's, just really rotten low dirty trick's.
I'm sick of hearing all the negative innuendo's about both of them, obviously not based on fact's but on personal projection by this author.
Bill Clinton, well he was president 8 years. What does that tell you? It say's he was an excellent President with human flaw's. He made one awful mistake that today would never be grounds for impeachment.
Hillary would've been a force for good for women and change. Her slogan was "Better Together."
Maybe some who live in glass houses should take a close look at themselves before throwing rocks. Maureen, i expect less biased opinion and more reporting from you. I can make up my own mind.
17
From the title of this, I thought it was going to be about the Clintons buying curtains.
3
No pity from me. Two greedy, immoral, self-absorbed jerks. She was a TERRIBLE candidate--couldn't do anything more than recite her memorized points when she met with people. His policies (and behavior) stank. Wish I had never heard of either of them--and I'm a Democrat. So now, PLEASE just go away and enjoy all the money you've made and don't inflict any more wounds on our political system.
13
Bill and Hill have nothing else to do, obviously.
12
Having read Ms. Dowd's column for many years, she has not been a Clinton(s) fan or supporter for many years and many columns have been wasted with what comes off as just dislike of the Clinton's, some based in reality and much not. Ms. Dowd would be better served providing commentary on the current crop of politicians, incl. those in the White House.
13
The Clintons’ are irrelevant greed heads who should slink away in the night; and I am so tired of hearing about how Hillary is highly qualified. Really? What exactly has she actually ever accomplished?
Vote for Bush’s authorization to go to war without reading it? Vilify the victims of her husband’s voracious sexual appetite? Lose every truly competitive race for office to unproven and most recently unqualified competitors? Ruin an attempt in the 90’s and then years later stand in the way of advancing healthcare for everyone in America? The emails. Benghazi. Syria. The “fixing” of the Democratic primaries so Bernie Sanders wasn’t given a fair shot? These are just her headline “successes”.
But you know, what I dislike most about the Clintons’, and Hillary in particular, is the sound of their voices...
The rasping, grating voice of Hillary speaking like a senior bureaucrat in an endless, pointless policy meeting, the soft indistinct southern lizard sounds of Bill, showing his feelings as he scratches his privates.
19
I was so sad for Maureen after reading her Thanksgiving column about her brothers. Perhaps this makes her feel better about her family
4
Maybe they are suffering from relevance deprivation syndrome.
5
I think it was you, Maureen, who once described the Clintons as "the Tom and Daisy Buchanan of American politics."
3
I vote with the people who recommend kindness. It's not a big worry whether Hillary runs again or not. I doubt if she will (She's not stupid) and if she does it will go nowhere. On the other hand it is still unpleasant reading Dowd's snide remarks.
13
@April, kindness isn’t nearly enough to make a great leader. Jimmy Carter was extremely kind, but his isolationist approach almost had us all speaking Russian.
Gerald Ford was extremely kind, but he did nothing of substance to move America forward.
Obama was extremely kind, and he ALSO took the initiative to take the risk and send us a huge stimulus package which has since paid off royally to the point where Trump is taking credit for the resulting strong economy as he rides on Obama’s coattails. Of course, Obama also took the risk to enact universal healthcare where, even though Trump is trying his best to undo Obama’s legacy, the legacy is there nevertheless for all to see and realize how strong it is/was, and how much we need a Dem government to re-enact much of what Trump has undone.
Snark is Maureen Dowd's speciality. She throws lots of darts but I rarely can get a handle on what she's actually for.
5
Hillary will destroy the party if she runs again.
5
It is time for them to fade away into their foundations to help others, not themselves. Their days are done. The more they fade, the less manna they offer to the "demonic ringmaster" in the WH.
3
Ms Dowd, I am forced to conclude that you attended the Clinton event desperately hoping that there still would be some carrion for you to feed on.
13
Maureen harasses the Clinton's for sport getting paid to engage in the most base form of communication, i.e., sniping from the cheap seats.
5
May be it is about time that the Clintons realizes that there is life after politics and…. Oh wait! I forgot! Chelsea! May be the Clintons are preparing the presidential campaign of their daughter. Chelsea 2020!
1
From Ms Dowd's article:
:...It’s a sad contrast with the sold-out boffo book tour of Michelle Obama..."
True - but even more interesting are the respective diversity ratios at the two types of events. Ms Dowd would stand out at the latter, but she didn't in Canada. Lack of self-awareness isn't limited to the Clintons, evidently.
2
Politics = $$$ is what the Clintons majored in at Yale.
This was confirmed to me when Hillary thought it ridiculous that the Governor's residence in Little Rock did not come with a swimming pool along with Bill's $35K salary. Imagine that.
3
"...Hillary’s smug certainty of her own virtue as she has become greedy..."
perfectly sums up why she lost. (nothing at all to do with Comey or anyone else...all her own making)
dear Clintons - go. away.
5
Well said.
This week after the Michael
Cohen plea became public soome
1
It’s columns like this that got Trump elected.
Thanks, Maureen.
11
After the week Trump and Mueller had, I thought Maureen would have something to say about the current WH occupant’s solicitation of Putin during the 2016 presidential campaign. But no. Clintons again.
With that said - Oh Lordy I sure hope she doesn’t run.
2
The sisterhood runs deep in this one..
Ms. Dowd can’t seem to quit the Clintons, either. Else why drive to Toronto and pay that much for a ticket? Answer: Clinton in the headline equals money in the bank.
3
Ooooph. Harsh, and sad, but startling true. A specific cause would do them (and the world) some good. Al Gore turned an unfair defeat into an important crusade.
1
Dowd’s ticket was close to $200. That is a weeks groceries for a middle class family of four in my area. Hilary lost because she believed that the middle classes and lower weren’t worth her time or effort. Looks like she still believes that.
When will the ruling classes realize there are more of us than there are of them?
8
If you're disgusted by the Clintons, this is, even by my lofty standards, a very satisfying read. It vindicates almost everything I've said about these two money-grubbers over the past 36 months, warning everyone I can, what these two charletons are all about... themselves.
Best passage? "The Clintons’ tin cup is worthy of the Smithsonian. They hoovered more than $2 billion in contributions to their campaigns, foundation and philanthropies." (Shouldn't "hoovered" been capitalized? I'm assuming that it is in reference to the Hoover vacuum cleaner brand of home-care appliances.) This is in stark contrast to efforts of George H. W. Bush who really understood the term "public service" in a way that is entirely foreign to Bill and Hillary.
That it was written by Maureen Dowd of The New York Times, makes it just a tiny bit more satisfying.
16
Dear Ms. Dowd,
Perhaps Ol' Bill and Hil are not the only ones who exhibit
"(a) pathological need to be relevant in America . . . " Hmmm?
11
Sorry, Maureen but I'm afraid the now sort of irrelevancy of the Clintons pales in comparison to the foul presence of the would-be autocrat in the White House our country has to tolerate until at least January 2020.
I'd gladly have Bill Clinton
back in the Oval Office any day than suffer the absurdly self-serving, carelessly, though proudly racist "Presidency" of "The Donald"even one more day.
13
The problem with mrs. Rodham Clinton is cold shrug in a nation on the vanguard of equality (who can't be good toward her defense of her husband's dirty affairs).
The upshot of Mrs. Obama is called Anti-Trumpism (which mrs. Rodham Clinton can't do after losing to him in the presidential election). Everyone of his husband's administration who published a book had great success, so it's only natural that she would have a bigger one as ex- First Lady. I can easily imagine any book published by Mr. Obama would break his wife record in no-time.
I was so looking forward to your column, providing a clear eyed dissection of Trump, Putin and our compromised presidency. But no, just a boring rehash of Clinton bashing.
Who cares? Hilary doesn't have a snowball's chance so why even go there. Such wasted space.
10
A mean-spirited, miserable piece which I find hurtful and unnecessarily ugly. This country has a long way to go in order to bridge the political chasm made unbearable by our current administration. And at the end of an emotionally fraught few days I find your article insulting. Perhaps you can next focus on climate change (the EPA) or this country's educational challenges. Enough is enough.
26
The Clintons could be called pathetic, but they’re too wealthy. It’s very much their fault that we ended up with first, George W. Bush, and now Trump. Their intellectual acuity was destroyed by their unmitigated hubris and narcissism.
6
I truly hope the Democrats have ruled her out.Are the same people in charge?Have we learned nothing?The HRC supporters elected trump.Sick of hearing about the Bernie Bros or the Jill Stein voters.The Clinton sheep are almost as bad as the trump sheep.Please next election,help nominate a person that the voters want.No gold plated,wall street minion.Please.The voters really do want a choice,not that it's her turn,or anybody's turn.How about the American people's turn?
7
One would imagine that the Clintons don’t need Ms. Dowd “feeling sorry” for them. After all, she did use her mighty pen to try and bring down one President (Bill) and prevent the other (Hillary) from becoming one.
The more relevant fact is that Ms. Dowd clearly holds a deep-rooted grudge against the Clintons and just can’t seem to let go after 27 years of covering them. Meanwhile, the American people have spoken and moved on - even though a majority of them wanted Hillary to be our next president in 2016. Maybe, Ms. Dowd should do so as well.
11
Hillary. Bill. Donald.
So many needy people. Some need food. Some need chemotherapy. Some need love, real and true love...a life partner. Some need attention.
3
Who knew their arrogance matched Trump's.
Their tour is embarrassing.
Bill and Hillary need to follow gracefully fade into the sunset and focus on working for the poor.
6
The Clinton's are only people who don't know that their time has come to an end . Hillary Clinton's time was over when she lost to Obama in her first try for the democratic nomination and yet some how is managed to steal the nomination 2016 and then lose the election to the horror that we now call the presidency . Hillary Clinton understand she is not wanted or needed for any Democrat position Some please tell her GO AWAY
6
'The only American who seems truly interested in her these days is President Trump'
and Maureen.
9
The reason Trump does not want to let go is because she is up to her neck in Uranium One and pay to play Clinton Foundation.
The random Australian diplomat, in fake Russia dossier story , is not particularly random . No Australian dead or alive more connected to uranium sales to Russia etc and tens of millions to Clinton Foundation than Alexander Downer.
Australia and UK helped Obama spy on Trump campaign . Don't expect Watergate on steroids to go away soon. The whole world is watching.
7
As a life-long Democratic woman, I am tired to death of Hillary.
From the moment she fake-cried in Portsmouth, New Hampshire in 2008, I wrote her off as a fraud and a women who enables men and betrays other women. Her recent comment exculpating her husband in the Monica-Bill abuse of power affair proved that truth again and made me dislike her even more.
I get that she has had a life-long dream that her destiny is to be the first woman president. I'm sorry that that dream was dashed. But Maureen hit the nail on the head...they are pitifully irrelevant now and an energetic and psychic drain on the party.
Thank u, next...
12
need some clarification from senator Sanders!
If I were an editor at the Times, I would urge Maureen Dowd to tone down this harsh assessment of the Clintons. On the other hand, this column, although negative in tone, is actually not nearly critical enough about the former president and twice-failed Democratic candidate, who bear more responsibilty than anyone else for steering the Democratic Party off the right side of the road and into the ditch, and have spent the past two decades enriching themselves by monetizing their public service. I have heard more than enough about the Clinton economy of the 1990s and Hillary Clinton's supposedly unmatchable qualifications to be president. On balance, their influence on our politics has been self-serving and pernicious.
3
Bravo Maureen DOWD, indeed the CLINTON’s are just as bad as TRUMP. The latter being a obvious liar, the firsts excellent at deceit and dissimulation. Then what about the OBAMA’s (which i used to like), did they not embrace poppy BUSH ? the CIA, CONTRA GATE, IRAK WAR master minder.
5
Maureen, do you like anybody? It would be so refreshing to read a positive opinion piece from you. Instead, you throw shade at Hillary ( your favorite target), the Obamas, and many others. In this climate, in this country, at this time, we need more love and positivity. It would be wonderful for you to try being kinder.
3
I COULD NOT BE MORE OVER HILLARY AND BILL CLINTON. Thank you for your service. It is not about you and what you think you deserve or are entitled to. WE get to decide that. Goodnight and good luck. Go walk a dog, go dandle a grandchild, go write a book, go make a charity happen. But GO.
4
Maureen, you are so going to get flamed for this one. Hillary doesn't have a lot of supporters left but the one who are will be incensed.
3
I grew very weary of Dowd's Clinton and Obama bashing in 2016. It seems in retrospect as if she preferred the guy who is now an "orange clownfish."
But I'm just as weary now of the Clintons. Time to go. They are humane by current POTUS standards, but a bore. We desperately need a new generation. Or Sherrod Brown, anyway. Hillary couldn't beat an orange clownfish, so let someone else try.
And I do agree the tour is pathetic.
3
It does seem odd that the Clintons are making a "grab a buck" tour of Canada without realizing that most folks (even Canadians) are looking toward the future instead of the past. Although complaining about this event is like whining about some pesky mosquitoes while climate change is creating disastrous hurricanes off the shore imminently on the verge of destroying the entire coast and all of its habitat. Bill Clinton's greatest sin was becoming entangled in an affair with a White House intern, whereas DJT, the public is now finding out, conspired with a foreign adversary to win the Presidential race, puts foreign despots ahead of the American people in order to further his business interests (i.e. Saudi Arabia, Philippines, Russia, Azerbaijan, Turkey, Brazil, etc) Most of his dealings have involved shady intermediaries including making a "deal" while President within 3 days of China promising to give $500 million dollars in loans to the Indonesian theme park that plans to feature Trump branded properties to in exchange for removing sanctions against the Chinese telecom firm ZTE accused of spying against American telecon firms and stealing intellectual property. His years of having mafia like criminals employed to do his dirty work the likes of Roy Cohn, Michael Cohen, Felix Satir, Paul Manafort, Alimzhan Tokhtakhounov, not to mention all of the corrupt Russian oligarchs rushing to purchase Trump branded condos in which to launder their siphoned money from Russia.
Admit it, Ms. Dowd. You would have to take Hillary Clinton in a heartbeat over Donald Trump just on policy reasons alone.
2
Enough, Mo. You've become exceedingly boring with your continued attacks on the Clintons. There's nothing new in your usual diatribe. I do hope she has no intention of running in 2020; her time is over, and it's time to move on to what we really need to fear with a Trump administration. Focus on important policy issues and the dangers of the Trump administration. Our well-being and the future of our nation and world. As a grandmother, I worry about the world that my children and grandchildren will inherit.
7
If Hillary decides to run she has every right to run.
She is entitled to a REMATCH since its now clear Trump stole this election from her with help from Russia. If she wants to run simply to mess with Trump's brain then I'm all for that too!
4
Maureen, when we are reeling from the grunge emerging from Swamp Trump and could use a little non-lawyerly insight, it seems you are determined to follow your own bliss undercutting Camp Clinton.
So what? They are doing what they've aways done. But what about where you're played out? The schadenfreude with which you describe the empty stadium is palpable. And so. Very. Old.
Since you see them as so dome, why waste time injecting more poison ink into that festering wound of yours?
Think about the real suffering and struggles this nation is undergoing during this MAGA nightmare. Leave the Clintons to heal their past, and step up. Your country needs you.
9
The Republicans have learned that they can win any election for any office anywhere in the land by the simple expedient of running against Hillary Rodham Clinton, regardless of what names happen to be printed on the ballot. And Hillary herself has proven, time and time again, to be their enabler-in-chief. Hillary, the party is over, it's time to go home.
22
It is beyond bizarre that the Clintons - apparently hating to be alone with each other - have no idea how to exist without the public's attention. They are tone deaf, and out of it - and you're right - they're already sounding focus grouped. They are the canned stale Clintons, ignoring the elephant in the room - the future.
28
She lost twice for a reason and America is thankful.
22
@Bill, Hillary is the only woman candidate to have Also ran, not once but twice. In my daughters and my view she should have shed Bill a long time ago a time....
Even though yes, on her WORSE day she's 100 times better than Trump and yes, she had more votes and yes, we have a VERY flawed democracy, I will not vote for her if she becomes the dem candidate. I couldn't even vote for bernie because I wasn't a registered democrat. Take all your corporate cash, saudi money etc. and...you know what you can do with it... I'll hold out for the socialist dems to make more headway. People have to start waking up in this country or we won't have a country. Please, no more family dynasties.
12
Bill was so consumed by the Starr OCD investigation that we lost peace with Arafat. I do wonder if he might have closed the deal had he not been consumed by his own shameful, reckless, idiotic and juvenile behavior. I'm not sure if Republicans really ever cared that we lost a peace that was oh so close, they just wanted him ruined. Not much changed there either.
As to Hillary, after the Vietnam war, it boggles the mind that she would vote for the Iraq invasion when everyone knew it was a big lie told by Bush and Cheney. But, she had the company of Edwards and Kerry, one a reckless Clinton wannabe and the other contemplating another run for the presidency too - although at least he went to Viet Nam unlike Bill, Bush, Trump or Mitt.
Good grief, the democratic version of the freedom caucus is looking good compared to these morally fractured '60's graduates.
Please please please, quit writing about them and giving (the entire family) the idea that anyone cares.
5
I am so tired of the Hillary bashing and election re-hashing! The best way to make the Clinton’s “go away”, if that is what you want, is to leave them alone. Move on to the new crop of leaders.
12
"It's a pity." That is disingenuous. The Cllintons are the gift that keeps on giving for Dowd. This is more like schadenfreude.
Of course it is way past the time that they should have quietly retired and limited public appearances to charity, but they seem incapable of doing that. The lack of self-awareness by two ostensibly intelligent people is breathtaking. Any idea of another run by Hillary is either laughable or delusional. Elections have consequences we are told. She lost. Trump won. That should be a clear message to her.
6
I don't think the Clinton's are the type to be happy chasing their grandchildren around the house. Too, IMHO I think Hillary has a No. 2 complex! She always gets the silver medal, even when she wins the popular vote. Of course she was always a step behind, Bill.
As for Bill Clinton, perhaps it's a case of "old habits die hard". I'm not sure he has much passion for today's political arena. Good ole Boys don't sell well an the era of snakes and snake jacketed wise guys.
To digress a bit and not to go into details, under the veneer of success our nation is not doing well. Many other nations are in similar circumstances. It's going to take more than the same stuff, different administration to make things better. Bill knows this!
5
I agree with every word of this column except the last 3: "It's a pity."
No it isn't. Hillary Clinton deserves her ignominy. Bill even more so. Their venality and arrogance were only exceeded by that of her opponent--and this has been her supporters' defense of her!
I have been a loyal Democrat for 42 years--even holding my nose and voting for her in 2016. But this is a bridge toO far. If Democrats DARE nominate her I am finished with the party forever.
I will hold my nose no more.No Clintons.No Cuomos. No excuses.
30
Aw, jeez, Maureen. You don't need to feel sorry for Hill and Bill. They've had their grand moments in the Sun. (They both received my vote when they ran for the Oval Office), but, hurry up please, it's time for them to fade away into retirement. There are a lot of other people you can feel sorry for.
5
The one and only good thing that trump has done for this country is drive the clintons to irrelevancy.
9
Dowd - at a time when Donald Trump's stinking up of our government, our country, our relationships and our honor as a nation is reaching new low points daily - chooses to write about the Clintons. Where else do I hear the Clinton name these days? During the banter with conservatives who are able to ignore the stench as long as there's a pointless liberal distraction to fret about. Nicely done Mo.
19
One either grows old and matures or just grows old.
1
Maureen, Instead of trashing the Clinton's - as if Fox News needs your help - start trying to be positive about something and tell us about the ex-President who is the polar opposite of those politicians with qualities that give you angst. Jimmy Carter is worth veneration and is the noblest, most Christ-like leader we have had. No wonder so many Christians dismiss him.
14
Ms Dowd, I rarely agree with your Opinion pieces, but this one is right-on. There are a LOT of people in the US today that are suffering from "Clinton-fatigue". Why those two can't just exit the active world of politics and retire with some degree of grace, is impossible for me to understand. Impossible and pathetic...
9
For a moment at the beginning of the article I was worried that the Maple Leafs had lost their luster and were contemplating a move to Georgia. From the tenor of your article, I'm thinking you believe Hillary shouldn't run again. What took you to Toronto? Morbid curiosity?
4
So, how can you find closure?
3
This country, the US of A, is not about a person, or a couple.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the perspective on the Clintons, today.
I voted for Bill and I voted for Hill.
But I can now see how Hillary and Bill were trying to push themselves back in the White House, after they had 8 years.
The democratic US of A, is not about dynasty, for anyone.
Enough is enough! And now, Trump nation. Why?
Perhaps this Trump mania, will finally wake us up, so we can find a "new birth of freedom", after the Roosevelts, Kennedys, Bushs and now the Clintons...
Thank you, Maureen.
--------------------------
2
“What scares me the most is Hillary’s smug certainty of her own virtue as she has become greedy and how typical that is of so many chic liberals who seem unaware of their own greed,”
Bam! American Liberalism summed up in one succinct sentence. Rich, ‘woke’, East or West coasters in expensive apartments arguing which brand of Truffle Oil is the best and cheerleading the globalism that benefits their ‘lifestyles’ while looking askance when those who have had their lives ruined by it vote differently.
9
Sometimes an aging football or baseball player that was a "star" decides to give it one more try and fails and then fades away.
The "final" tour. The last dance.
It's time for others, the phoenix will not take off.
Time for the Clintons to retire.
4
The only one still interested in Hillary Clinton is Donald Trump? Maureen, look in the mirror. You're obsessed. If you're worried about greed, go after the Trump cabinet and leave the Clintons and Obamas alone. Why is it that it's perfectly fine for the Republicans of the world to amass large fortunes, but when democrats do it, we worry that their souls are somehow in danger? I'm afraid that you're the one who is unable to move on.
23
I just can’t imagine that Hillary would run again.
Why put yourself through the misery of a campaign.
Maureen, if you have her ear tell her that we’re sorry that she didn’t make it, but please don’t run again.
It’s time to pass the torch. You’re relevance is waning.
1
LOVE IT! Your columns on the Clinton brings out the best in the Clintonistas! Best entertainement!
3
Bill Clinton has an upcoming Orlando event being held in a High School Auditorium. Full page ads have been running in the Orlando Sentinel for the past week. He will be sharing the stage with author James Patterson. For NYT readers visiting the Sunshine State this month, tickets are still available. At a discount. In an intimate High School Auditorium. No joke ...
6
Seems to me Ms. Dowd is aptly addressing the barely concealed " fact " among the remaining Clintonistas that The Secretary will run again. That so many of them revile her for pointing out the obvious is really kind of sad. Once again I am reminded that no one can bring together Republicans and their increasing need for fascism quite like HRC. Must we suffer through this again?
4
Sad to say it... But HC is just too toxic now... Our country has yet to have its reckoning so to speak... Trump (as so many of us knew beforehand) has been a nightmare and it aint over... But we still have to deal with the likes of Faux News who is even more evil than the current bunch of Repubs in DC... Our country has plunged to the depths of sickness and wickedness... I have faith (and hope) that our ship of state can right itself... But it won't happen if HC still thinks she is the answer to our problems... The old guard must pass the baton... Pelosi needs to mentor someone so that by 2020... the Dems will have a successor in the House... But HC is delusional if she thinks she is still viable...
2
Whatever the Clintons are going to do, they're going to do. Let them compete in the marketplace with other public Democrats if they choose to put themselves out there. There's no reason to ostracize them from public life. People will vote with their eyeballs and their feet.
If not for Bernie's overplayed hand, the meddling of Putin and Comey, and a 78,000 person slice of ill informed voters, Hillary would be president. And we'd be having an informed discussion of what her actual presidency might have meant, 2 years in.
Meanwhile, the real danger to the republic is the criminally incompetent and illegitimately elected Putin stooge who's tearing apart the county and the world order.
Focus on that!
That's what's truly dangerous. Not some meaningless Clinton PR tour.
1416
@Michael Tyndall "If not for Bernie's overplayed hand" Bernie didn't overplay his hand, it was the Clintons and their minions at the DNC that effectively denied him the nomination and gave us "the deplorables" candidate.
68
How, exactly, did Bernie overplay his hand? By having the temerity to question the inevitability of Clinton's victory? Given the ultimate outcome it seems like Bernie was the only one who saw reality, the Queen had no clothes.
58
Hillary's responsible for her own loss. Her messes with emails, Bengahzi, Russian nuke business, cheating in debates by knowing the questions beforehand, lead to her downfall. Americans saw her selfishness and true meddling. The only Russian meddling was on the part of Hillary trying to pass a fake dossier. Liberals always pointing blame for their own incompetence. Now these curtains are living proof they lost on their own merit.
40
Dear Ms. Dowd
I loved your column about Cheney. You demonstrated perfect pitch. This Clinton piece seems disingenuous, almost in the extreme. The Clintons got a long, unjustified ride on the celebrity train to the county's detriment and now they've come at last to the end of the track. No one should feel pity for Bill or Hillary and I doubt that you really do. Relief is what we should feel.
8
Clinton’s paid appearances prior to, and during her love-train campaign were no different than Donald Trump working to get his Moscow franchise even while his spat-upon and democrat-controlled national media-mocked campaign got him elected President of the United States.
Ms. Dowd, where was this perspective in the spring of '16, when it mattered? I can hardly believe her approval rating is as high as 36%. Long past time for them to gather up their money and go away.
3
This piece would have the chance to be compelling, if it weren't self-serving.
Ms Dowd leaves out 2 important facts:
1) Her 2016 election eve column, and those before, suggested a rough equivalence between Trump and Hillary Clinton, and
2) She has been unwilling, or unable to come clean since.
Maybe the Clinton's desire for attention is pathetic, but no more so than the author's prideful unwillingness to state the obvious: Hillary Clinton was qualified, at the very least, and Trump has been a disaster.
33
Good one, MD; and I don't think you are being unkind. Sometimes it takes someone who cares to tell you there's egg on your face.
Quick story: early summer, '62 or 3. We teens were draped on the benches in the park in our little village listening to The Beach Boys on our transistors when a new Corvette appeared. Behind the wheel was the town dweeb, slowly cruising. He parked, we gathered; one of the gear heads had him pop the hood, and then said, almost admiringly, "Walter, you're the only guy in the USA who buys a 'vette w/ six cylinders and automatic transmission and thinks he's cool."
His last name wasn't Clinton, but, well, some people just want it SO BAD(ly), but they've never been cool and never will be. Sad. (Hat tip to the tweeter-in-chief, also not and never.)
3
When Bill was president the Clintons took their vacations at estates of super-rich benefactors. The Obamas paid their own way at Martha's Vineyard & elsewhere. Big media never seemed to notice the difference or that it might not be terribly prudent for a sitting president to accept gifts that were at least as sinister as the famous Goldman Sachs trifecta to follow.
5
Ms. Dowd your best column in years. The Clintons are very sad. At age 71 how much more do you need? How much does Chelsea need? Do they not know their own mortality? Do they think they can take it with them? I understand the need to stay busy and even get some attention but would it not be better to tour American High Schools and give free speeches to America's youth. The kids would remember it years from now when both Clintons are long gone. You are correct in feeling pity for them. The love and worship of money is the root of all evil.
6
I’m so tired of them. Reading about them. Hearing about them.
And I seriously doubt I am the least bit unusual in that regard. In many other ways perhaps but not that one. Bored indifference to both Clintons and “Clinton-world” itself is widespread.
I don’t hate them — never have, never will. I’m just worn out, to the point of numbness. I wish they would retire to Sussex and keep bees.
4
What a mystery. The largest political dynasty, the Bush's, with connections and five generations, and the Clintons, 8 yrs in the Whitehouse. There's Trump, inheritor of $230,000,000, there's Bloomberg, a billionaire. There's the Congress, mostly just cheap millionaires. Why would the political duo of the Clintons think they can exert a national presence? Maybe because its all about dynasty, legacy, money, and connections? Maybe because they can? Bill didn't mind stumping for high schools in Arkansas when he was governor, why would they mind not being a set out? Ozzy Osborne was all washed up, and then he bit a live bat's head off on stage, and restarted his career. They don't have to sell out stadiums, they just have to hang around. They are part of the Democrat Justice League. We need the septuagenarians, the soon to be octogenarians like Pelosi, and we need the young new Congresspersons, muslim, female, progressive in the 1900's sense.
Hillary needs to pack it in already. Her hubris is nauseating. And she cares about one thing, and one thing only, to satisfy her power rush. She is as tone deaf and lead footed as they come, and no, not presidential material at all. Just analyze her speeches. It's "I" this, "I" that all the way. She never said "you", she never offered a vision for the country, she never could verbalize why she wanted to be president.
She tartly says others who ran and lost aren't told to go away, they continue to play political roles. Those others are making themselves useful in public service. She wants to be a divisive force again so that we lose to the orange menace again. There can be no replay of that.
And nobody over 70 should ever be allowed to run for president again. We need a candidate young enough to still be alive when the catastrophic mealy-mouthed inconsequential political missteps concerning climate change are being borne out. Maybe their own vested interest will make a difference in the fight against global warming.
5
I don't understand why you have so much personal animosity towards the Clinton family, especially Hilliary. What has Chelsea done to justify your dismissive judgment of her political asperations? In some twisted way does she have to suffer from the supposed sins of her father. With regard to the latter, the moral outrage over Bill Clinton's sexual behavior seems quaint compared to the outright mysogynistic behavior that we now tolerate from our current President. Was there any evidence that any woman gained governmental financial favor because of her relationship with Bill Clinton? Was there any evidence of any financial corruption by either Clinton during their government service? After spending 25 million dollars to investigate whether Hilliary illegally earned 25 thousand dollars on Whitewater and finding no credible evidence, isn't it clear she was a target of right wing conservatives?
Now we are to believe that the Clinton's, and especially Hilliary, are guilty of earning money through speaking and appearance fees. It's like blaming the ballplayers for signing the lucrative contracts the team owners offer them. After being in demand to justify those fees for all that time, the Clintons now momentarily falter. The sharks smell blood and gather to tear them apart.
Hilliary once used expert opinion to research and formulate a national health care plan and she was accused of being "wonkish". Now we have elected the "anti-wonk" President. Go figure.
24
Hillary in 2020 is the perfect way to get Trump reelected.
7
This piece would have the chance to be compelling, if it weren't self-serving.
The author leaves out 2 important facts:
1) Her 2016 election eve column, and those before, suggested a rough equivalence between Trump and Hillary Clinton, and
2) She has been unwilling, or unable to come clean since.
Maybe the Clinton's desire for attention is pathetic, but no more so than the author's prideful unwillingness to stat the obvious: Hillary Clinton was qualified, at the very least, and Trump has been a disaster.
4
Of course Hillary is not going to say a definitive no to the question of running for president. Her publicists probably assume that giving the impression she may still be a candidate is a lure for selling books and seats. Her biggest failing as a leader is she listens without caution to her advisors. It makes her sound indecisive and bland like she has something to hide. From what I hear from first hand sources though is she is a wonderful person to work for.
Everyone has failings, even Dowd. What does she know about Canadians. The people in Toronto and across the country are exhausted with US politics and the rollercoaster ride of the Trump administration. Being on top of it is turning the stomachs of the people in the cool blue north. Voluntarily paying to hear even more about it would make the Canadians look like chumps. The battle over NAFTA 2.0 has left a sour taste in the mouth of many.
Perhaps while Dowd was in Toronto she might have listened to the disgusted conversations about what is going on south of the border and written about the damage Trump did to the partnership of the US' biggest trading partner. Who advised her to write her misplaced valley girl take down of the Clintons and let her reveal once again her proletariat envy of the rich and famous.
8
The presidency is an office for a younger occupant. Someone in their early fifties would be preferable, old enough to have life experience, but not so old that they are stuck in their ways and trying to take the country backwards.
I for one respect both of the Clintons and always will. But, enough is enough and they are old.
Maureen, your snark has worn thin.
4
I have never cared for Bill and
find Hillary to be the classic liberal
who has no real understanding of the lower classes,
but needs their votes so she goes through the motions
on the campaign trail.
[What do they do with all the money they rake in ? ]
BABY BOOMERS !!!
Time to retire and spend time with the Grandkids
and garden.
Meanwhile who is going to run for President for the
Democrats and the Republicans in 2020.
2
The Clintons' tone deaf inability to admit mistakes or express contrition has made them irrelevant to the world today. Donald Trump should take note.
1
Relevance is different than popularity, Gail Collins. Both Clintons, whatever their issues, are brilliant and able people whose experience should not be lost. It is as if you too have forgotten that Hillary won by almost 3 million votes. She would have made an extraordinary President.
G-d knows we need voices of wisdom along with the voices of the young, untested and exciting new leaders we just elected who have yet to make their mistakes (inevitable) along with their successes. I am disappointed in you due to your inability - or unwillingness - to distinguish the difference.
Politics is a cruel business, and you are contributing. The real danger and pity is that we are "led" by the mega-crooks of the Trump cabal in the WH and Congress. BTW, the presentation was in Canada. Isn't that possibly a factor, too?
7
Ms. Dowd is a cliche of herself with this Clinton obsession. So be it. What is more interesting to me, is an idea that yes, just as much as Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton has every right to explore participation in the 2020 election, even if only as the most qualified and experienced person in the arena. Why wouldn't you want to ask Hillary to participate? She is not toxic. She should campaign for a younger candidate maybe, and get as her thanks the VP nod.
9
I am totally done with people telling Hillary Clinton to go away.
Haven't you figured out that the mid term election was women's response to Hillary Clinton's treatment by Trump and the press?
Women are totally fatigued with columns such as this, especially written by one of our own. Just stop.
15
Did she say biggest crowd ever? I think she probably did.
1
senator Sanders where are you? Have you ever got the privilege of listening to Goldman Sacks lecture by dear Hillary?
Was middle class/working class mentioned?Was student debt discussed/,WHAT ABOUT HEALTH CARE?
1
I have never understood the pure hatred that people have for the Clintons. They are bright and they are flawed. Most people are just flawed...If the Clintons had an ounce of awareness they would leave the stage and let a Democrat who could win take over. They don't need the money. They need to retire gracefully.
3
The notion that Barack Obama "has some regrets about throwing his support solely behind Hillary" is pure revisionist history dreamt up by who knows, maybe even Ms. Dowd.
President Obama endorsed Mrs. Clinton in 2016 because he had to as part of a 2009 deal between the two. In that deal the newly inaugurated president agreed to appoint Mrs. Clinton secretary of state, pre-empting her as a political opponent for 2012 and binding her to his policies as a member of his administration. For Mrs. Clinton, secretary of state would burnish her credentials for the White House but, most important, she would have the president's agreement to endorse her for the 2016 Democratic nomination.
The context of the deal is significant. Barack Obama hated the Clintons because of things Bill had said about him in the primary campaigns. The Clintons deeply resented the then Illinois junior senator for taking from Hillary the Democratic presidential nomination she believed was rightfully hers. The deal was a way to serve the political interests of both these former adversaries.
President Obama did endorse Mrs. Clinton as promised, clearing her way to the nomination (rigged primaries helped). Visions of the White House still dance in her head. This revisionist history from Ms. Dowd is word to Mrs. Clinton that although she had the Obama endorsement in 2016, forget about it in 2020.
7
Their relevance passed --and their ability to do great and good things along with it, because they simply could not be honest.
If Bill had come clean about Monica we never would have had W.
If Hillary had come clean about who she really is --and the emails that reflect this--folks might admire her and be drawn to her.
But they are both liars and folks don't like liars, in the end.
3
A Stanton “Golden Oldie” originally posted here in 2016 that remains as true today as it was back then. Maybe even truer.
Mrs. Clinton is such an obviously superior candidate for the Presidency than Mr.Trump that it hardly needs to be stated again. But as a service to Times’ readers still caught up in false, idiotic charges relating to her email and foundation practices, Stanton will undertake to state the reasons why a vote cast against Mrs. Clinton is a vote in favor of stalemate, chaos and disaster.
1. Trump will embarrass and disgrace the country in ways that Americans will still be talking about 100 years from now.
2. Apart from single-payer health care, Hillary will implement whatever parts of the Sanders agenda are practical and affordable.
3. Hillary will succeed in finding ways to collaborate with Republicans and begin breaking down the paralysis in Washington.
4. Hillary will pursue ISIS and other radical groups in the Middle East in ways so unmerciful and relentless that even battle-scarred veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan will be aghast at the ruthlessness of them.
5. Hillary will be a good partner to Israel without repeating the Obama mistake of making no demands on the Palestinians.
6. Hillary will seek out advisers who favor projecting American strength and values throughout the world as opposed to advisers who counsel retreat and withdrawal.
--- More to follow.
5
7. Hillary will cut back on federal regulations and eliminate major parts of the federal bureaucracy in ways that will encourage moderate Republicans to believe in the future of America again.
8. Hillary will lower, yes lower, our taxes.
9. Her fundamental program for America will be jobs, jobs and more jobs.
10. Hillary will boss men around -- including her husband -- in ways that will be very delightful for young girls and their mothers to witness.
Now go out and vote for Mrs. Clinton as frequently as you can.
\
1
Bill and Hillary think she's going to run again, but as we learned in the last election, the Clinton brand of kleptocracy is kryptonite for the Democratic party -- and for the country, as well, given the orange buffoon we ended up with.
If the Democrats nominate Hillary for 2020, there really is no hope for the Democratic party as a political force in the country. They've got to do better. And they should be able to, since that's a pretty low bar.
3
I think America has become a very selfish culture and the Clintons reflect that neatly. After all they have done in their careers, why not graciously encourage and mentor younger folks to carry the torch? Instead, they just keep chasing the spotlight. It’s only about them. That’s selfishness.
515
@DissatisfiedYeah, those selfish Clinton's who don't take ONE dime of salary for their charity/ the Clinton Foundation.
They only make money from book deals, consulting and speeches.
Ohh, and they not only take no salary for their charities, they also give millions of dollars to charity as well, and even pay a higher percentage of their income in taxes than Bernie Sanders, Bernie paying 13.5% and the Clinton's paying 34.5%, Trump paying something like 24%.
The Clinton's are far from selfish, and you can see it i their daughter.
Chelsea, who is one of the nicest most gracious people. You don't bring up a child like that if you are selfish people.
If there as more room, I would list the MANY things that Hillary has done, that she didn't brag about, unlike most politicians these days.
Anyway, please, just STOP with the smears that they are selfish, they are far from it.
71
That selfish culture got you that iphone you're probably using.
11
@Dissatisfied- Atleast she did not go and pout like Gore. She got back to work making money for Clinton, inc.
1
I clicked to this piece via Facebook, and there were all sorts of nasty comments directed toward Ms. Dowd. Folks there were telling her to get a life, accusing her of being a Clinton hater, urging her to write about more important things, and saying that she keeps rehashing the same tired Clinton preoccupation. Frankly, I don't get it. I found this piece interesting as a brief spotlight on the psychology of two famous politicians. To me, it's a very human story, one that asks why the formerly powerful and still rich and famous would persist in playing small joints, akin to Michael Jordan playing in a local basketball league. This piece gives no inside dope on precisely what moves the Clintons, but just by raising the issue, it identifies a fascinating mystery. Are they just addicts or a sort? Are they utterly out to lunch? Most folks have a sense of when their ship has sailed and they are no longer welcome to be the life of the party. Somehow, the Clintons seem to lack that awareness, or else they insist on defying it. I for one am shocked that they'd be off in Canada doing such a venue. Were I in their famous, wealthy shoes, I'd retire quietly to the wings, perhaps to do some good, but if so, to do so discreetly, not with any fanfare.
399
@Cunningham I agree. This article is quite telling. The Clintons and Obama are having difficulty with reality.
15
@Cunningham It's like watching a train crash in slow motion.
While they tell Dowd to get a life, they just can't stop themselves from clicking on the story.
10
@Cunningham
I don't think it's for us to say what they should or shouldn't do. But I do agree that Maureen Dowd should give it up and get a life. Just leave them be, for goodness sake.
52
I know it's unfair to her. She truly won the 2016 popular vote and it must hurt tremendously to not be in the White House. It must hurt twice as bad because an incompetent mob boss is sitting in the White House, a fake president who is only there because of Putin and Facebook and Comey (and a few mistakes of her own) and she is watching the country be so terribly hurt by Trump. I know it must hurt.
But she and Bill must stop. If she loves this country, if he loves this country.....they need to just stop. We need to move on. There are so many people ready to run for president, it's going to be hard enough to sort it all out to beat Trump (if he runs). Democrats do not need these two people out there stirring things up with the hope of her, once again, being the Dem nominee.
It will not help the country, Mr. and Mrs. Clinton, the country you love. Please. Just go work on your foundation and do good works there. Let the ego rest.
Life is unfair so much of the time. Believe me, I know. Let go of the dream of going back to the White House. It's hard. But you must. You really must.
823
I so agree. I was thinking these thoughts thinking how to write them and then read yours. If she loves this country, she should step aside. They should be quietly fostering the next leader, indeed, the next generation of leaders. You nailed it: If she/they cared, loved, understood etc. etc. they'd let the egos rest.
45
@sophia
Your comment was thoughtful, with the exception of the First and Last Paragraphs.
3
@Evano
please expound on what exactly is wrong with the first and last paragraph
enlighten us?
29
I voted for Clinton in 2016. I desparately wanted her to win. Because of Trump, protecting Roe vs Wade, the Paris Climate Accords and the Iran nuclear deal. She was the best of the two candidates, by far. Yet, the election was hijacked by oligarchs - foreign and domestic - for nefarious personal enrichment. The Democratic Party must learn and move beyond that loss, and this does not involve the Clintons. Sorry Bill and Hill, the sun has set. Enjoy the rest of being out of politics and do something fun!
108
Bill Clinton lost me when they made gays in the military their first issue of concern, not support for single mothers through daycare and pre-school. This was motivated by an approach that emphasized who the core management crew in the Clinton administration was ( their bubble), not what some of the most pressing issues in the country were, and are.
Hillary Clinton never really had me, she's just not that inspiring. Really, failure to support universal health Care?
The Clintons live in one bubble, Trump and his administration live in another. I have to say that for now, there is nothing we can do about it.
29
Maureen will take a lot of flack over this column, and the reason boils down to a simple truth.
Democrats can be just like Republicans in their rabid loyalty to horribly flawed leaders, glossing over bad behavior and making excuses for words and actions that would enrage them if they came from the other side.
Maybe those of us in the middle are lucky, because we can find fault with anyone and eventually lean towards the least bad. Or maybe America in general is unlucky, because the only choices in the last presidential election were terrible. What ever happened to patriotism? Altruism? Decency?
As I said, Maureen will take a beating for this. But she doesn't deserve it. Painful as it may be to some, she's only speaking the truth.
83