"Mr. Scott maintained a slim lead over his opponent. Ron DeSantis, a fiery conservative and enthusiastic ally of President Trump"
What? DeSantis and Scott are in different races but also in the same side. SMH
I was a volunteer this morning at the Broward County hand recount. There were 100 tables with election workers and party observers/objectors looking at all the ballots not counted by machines (13,000-20,000 I’m guessing; we were told how many).
We finished 10 hours earlier than expected, as 90-95% of the ballots were blank for the senate race (yes, no vote for any candidate!). In a county as large as Broward, that would certainly have the potential to change the outcome of the senate race.
Why so many no votes? I believe it is due to poor ballot design (that race was buried at the end of the column of instructions), the official ballot did not resemble the sample ballot, insufficient ballot pretesting, and insufficient voter education/motivation/preparation.
As a recent FL transplant from NJ of four weeks (thanks GOP tax law), I’m embarrassed that this county does not respect the election process or voters sufficiently to get it right (again). Did I mention that it was two minutes late submitting the machine recount midweek and the state would not accept its results?
Broward County can and must do better, or the electorate will lose confidence in the outcome, undermining our democracy and rule of law. It’s not rocket science, but may be just as important.
11
How is ANY election valid until ALL ballots are counted?!?
1
Having a deadline to count votes when every vote must be counted sounds like another attempt at voter suppression.
Election officials are done when all votes are counted or we are no different than countries that stuff ballot boxes.
2
Of course both the NYT and CNN fail to mention the most important fact regarding Broward county's missing the deadline by two minutes - Scott's vote lead over Nelson actually would have increased by over 800 votes. Our corrupt and clueless MSM believes it is important for all votes to be counted - as long as they aren't Republican votes and that voting fraud doesn't exist - as long as you ignore it.
2
Florida should just stop having elections. We know the results will be split approximately 50/50 so let’s just have a coin flip between candidates. Cheaper, easier, and fairer than the current situation and most of Florida’s elections over the past 20 years. I lived there for 17 of them and have seen few improvements in the election processes there. The will to disenfranchise particular groups remains strong. Not surprising given the state’s history.
There are those who are committed to having every vote cast with good intent counted and there are those who believe that the best use of voter ID and the calendar is to suppress the vote. I'll let you figure out who belongs to which party.
Suffice it to say that when arbitrary deadlines are set for counting and delivering tallies, then votes will be disregarded. When politicians are allowed to oversee their own elections and set the rules for executing those elections, the votes counted will favor that politician. When voting machines sit unused in warehouses while polling stations with hundreds of voters wait in line to use two or three machines or machines which can't be used because someone 'forgot' to include power cords, it is voter suppression.
When anyone tolerates these things, it is criminal.
What happened to the $20,000,000 Federal grant last March for election security and machine updates in Florida?
1
The November 9 NYT reported the results from Tarrant County, TX to the 100ths of a percentage point. That same day Broward county "found" 83,000 ballots or roughly 12% of the vote in Broward County, so essentially Texans can count election results 1000 times more accurately than Floridians. Unless Texas is in another century this makes absolutely no sense.
I am unaware there has ever been an election where a Democrat eked out a victory on election day and the Republicans "found" votes to narrowly overturn it. Maybe such an election has occurred. If so, please correct me. (In 2000 George W. Bush was ahead on election day and the Supreme Court upheld the Florida Secretary of State's certification of his victory)
If no such example exists, then we're left with the Democratic Party history of stealing elections dating back to "Landslide" Lyndon Johnson stealing Coke Stevenson's Senate Seat to Minnesota finding enough ballots to hand Norm Coleman's Senate seat to Al Franken. That Senate seat gave us Obamacare.
The conservative bastion, the Washington Post, reported that the Democrats in Florida are trying to change the rules to get ballots previously disqualified counted. While there certainly were errors made in the disqualification of ballots, there's no evidence the rules weren't applied uniformly or with knowledge of who the voter chose.
Accusations the Democrats are trying, again, to steal an election have validity. Scott and DeSantis won. Fair and square.
Just FYI many of the ballots the Dems are trying to get qualified are ones where the voter’s signature on the ballot didn’t match the one on file - the latter taken electronically at the DMV. This bizarre requirement has been shot down by at least one court in a different state.
And your Dem/GOP comparison rings a little hollow. The Dems aren’t engaged in blatant wholesale voter disenfranchisement based on a demonstrably false claim of widespread voter fraud. The Republicans are. It’s shameful and unconstitutional.
The state ought to be required to let every single person who cast a ballot know whether it was counted, and to provide an explanation for why not, for those whose ballots were excluded.
Every single excluded voter should then have the right to sue the state, if not to ask for election officials -- or those who refused to fund or supervise the voting apparatus properly -- to be prosecuted criminally.
4
Rick Scott, like the equally lying and corrupt, Brian Kemp in Georgia, should not have been "supervising" the election since both are candidates. As governor, Scott had 8 years to improve Florida's lousy voting systems. Instead, he didn't bother but he aided in republican voter suppression efforts.
His (and Kemp's) hypocrisy is astounding and typical for republicans. When they win all's fine (though they cheated for victory) but a loss or close election their CONstant refrain is, "voter fraud", "illegal immigrants voted", "democrats cheated", etc., etc.,. FACT IS republicans are THE perpetrators of voter suppression and far more extreme gerrymandering than any democrat.
Here's hoping Nelson, Gullem, and Tracy Abrams prevail! That would send republicans and trump a good message. If only we can rid ourselves of McCONnell.
3
The US election system is as rotten as any third world banana republic.
Get rid of gerrymandering. Commit to providing every voter the maximum opportunity to vote. Commit to counting every vote.
That's what real democracies do.
5
The election will not be “fair” until enough votes are found for the Democrats to win.
The recounts must continue until that occurs
4
The total votes for Senator in Texas and Florida are almost identical this November. Texas has 6-7 million more people than Florida. Voters turnout in Red parts of Florida were unusually high. The GOP controls the Fla election process and the election machinery in those counties. Vote stuffing gets the GOP elected.
1
Incompetence by A Demo hack making 170k a year for a week's work once a year
This is the democrat vision of America.
3
In this day and age, this fiasco is a disgrace. Trump's "Make America Great Again' should not mean we still have the antiquated way of voting. It wasn't great then and is not now. It's time we use Retinal Scans so everyone can exercise their right to vote and have it count. This would reduce voter suppression and gerrymandering.
Let's move into the 21st century people!
1
Democrats have to win someway
2
Two Democrat run counties did a recount but when the results showed that the Republican candidates had picked up hundreds of votes the counties chose to withhold the new results because their boys didn't benefit. I wonder how they will suppress the actual count in a thorough new recount.
2
@Robert Winchester
If that happened, the people responsible should be fired - just like the people who tried to include 150 email votes should be fired. But that doesn't change anything - the votes need to be counted, no matter who it benefits. The problem is with people like Trump who want to just throw away votes because counting them all is hard, or because someone's signature, according to a pure amateur who may also be partisan, doesn't match precisely.
2
Humiliated again in front of the planet. "We just don't have the money to fix it..." Oh, hey, how much does one of those new F-35's cost again?
2
For me, expecting a sitting Governor to make sure every voter’s ballot is properly counted is not a high bar. Mr. Scot’s evident disregard for voter preference tells me he wants to go to the Senate, whether or not his state has elected him. Oh, wait, he has ALREADY gone to the Senate and posed for photos with other duly elected members. Note the choice of the word”posed”. In saying that Sen. Nelson wants to cheat to be elected, do I sense projection?
4
It is so sad that even with unconstitutional efforts by the State of Florida and most other "Red" states, they can't give a credible win to the Republicans. No matter how much voter suppression they engage in, they have to creatively "recount" the ballots until they can end up with the Republicans winning.
3
But keep that corrupt Snipes on the payroll, don't let that beacon of democracy get away......
1
Outrageous! Over and over and over again American democracy is thoroughly undermined by the inability of a few counties in Florida to be able to run a half competent election.
Outrageous! We need a march on Broward and Palm Beach Counties!
5
“We have been the laughingstock of the world, election after election,” Judge Mark E. Walker of the Federal District Court in Tallahassee told lawyers Thursday morning. “Yet we still chose not to fix it.”
As a state whose methods of vote counting and voter suppression have led to Republican victories, and Republicans currently rule 2 of the 3 branches of goverment, politically, it does not behoove them to modernize their voting machines, eliminate signature comparisons between one made in ink and one made on a tablet, or treasure and count each vote.
Between the State government, the Registrar of voters, and the unprepared poll workers, the State regularly elects Republicans, despite it's Democratic-leaning population.
I do not know how, or if, the Republicans in office reward those responsible for organizing and tallying the vote in their favor, but there may be percs.
Why the poll workers themselves don't seem to respect the votes, and regularly lose, misplace or throw them away, I don't know.
From the outside looking in, it could be sheer laziness, incompetence, not caring, or, being overwhelmed with bad machines, incorrect voter lists, and ridiculous voter suppression laws to navigate.
But Florida is not exactly a "laughingstock", they actually provide a roadmap on how to bungle elections so that thousands of voters are disenfranchised, and Republicans win.
26
Without voter suppression, the Republican candidates would have lost bigly. Next time, 1.5 million ex-felons will be allowed to vote. #BlueWaves
4
“Broward County, the scene of several years of vote-counting problems, was two minutes late in reporting its data and state officials refused to accept its tallies” - the county needs new election officials, their incompetence is staggering. They had the stupid ballot in 2000 that confused the voters then. They had a confusing ballot now. And they are late ???
2
The election debacle in Florida unfortunately demonstrates once again that Florida is still a backward southern state. There is no excuse for this situation.
5
Was there any doubt he would win when the Republic on the ballot controls the ballot? Foxes in the henhouse. Where is common sense?
7
I dare say that William Shakespeare was thinking of Rick Scott when he wrote: "What a piece of work is man!"
3
Its pretty clear Florida can't be trusted in elections. Yet they are stupendously important as a swing state. Well, perhaps the answer is to punish them. No representation whatsoever in Congress, the Senate, or the Presidential elections until they can prove they have modern equipment, fair practices and a bullet proof system that can accurately tally votes in a reasonable time. I mean, what is it going to take for them to finally fix themselves? They continue to undermine the basis of our entire country's democracy by being unable to properly count votes, and that is too important to let them continue to be so lame.
3
Regardless of outcome Mr. Gillum is absolutely right - EVERY vote has to be counted! Florida IS the laughingstock of this country, and this affects ALL the rest of us. GET IT DONE!
5
They have one job to do, once a year or so, and they continually mess it up.
5
Maybe the Democrats taking over the US House of Representatives should make electoral reform one of their top priorities. Every state should have to subscribe to the same standards. What's going on in Florida (again!) is a national disgrace.
7
New for 2018, brought to you by the same guys who brought you ‘The Hanging Chad’, the 2000 horror hit that brought you the Iraq war – ‘The Return of the Hanging Chad’
Featuring round two of red and blue arguing over whether that chad is hanging, punched or it’s just bent paper, endless lawsuits and mystery votes that appear out of thin air.
Now playing at a state near, or far, from you.
Nobody likes a rerun, or a sequel to a show that was terrible to begin with. But here we are.
Florida, the state that keeps the rest of the country wondering what is wrong with them.
4
There is a good chance that Senator Nelson will lose his re-election bid because of poor ballot design leading to a disproportionate number of undervotes in Broward County as to the Senate race specifically. A similar debacle took place in 2000, when the infamous "butterfly ballot" in Palm Beach County led to the "Palm Beach Jews for Buchanan" fiasco (I think enough votes were involved just from this one episode to cost Gore the state and thus the presidency).
It's my understanding that ballot designs are a county-specific function in Florida. Is there any sort of testing process for these ballots prior to Election Day? Do the election authorities do any "dry runs" to find out if the ballots facilitate voters in making their choices or just confuse them? If they do, who are on the "focus groups" that try out these ballot designs?
Someone in these counties needs to start caring about, and providing better answers for, these questions. The fact that these types of problems continue to persist suggests massive incompetence which allows room for nefariousness, which in turn can only cause a crisis of confidence in the voting system in Florida and elsewhere. Hopefully people on both sides of the partisan divide can agree that this is unacceptable.
28
When you are the party in control and that Party's focus is on winning at any expense, you lie, cheat and steal your way to victory. As long as that overriding attitude is maintained, the Republicans will mess with our votes. Who would want a fair and unbiased election when you can cheat your way to victory with no apparent consequences? That's where were at now.
9
They are trying to steal the election in Fla, The Republican gets 800 additional votes in the machine recount, but they missed the deadline by two minutes which forces a hand count...some fishy smells in the sunshine state.
3
@Tony J Mann
The hand count was going to happen (and is happening) anyway because the margin was narrow enough to fall within the state-mandated trigger. Broward County's delay, a debacle to be sure, still had nothing to do with whether a hand count would have to take place or not.
I gotta give it to Liberals/Democrats if you pull this off this will be the most corrupt mid elections in history. To Democrats it does not matter that the votes are legit, or illegal all they care is that ALL votes are in. Good way to win a mid term. Smh
1
I’m not sure how the party that does not control the ballot can cheat the ballot?
5
What is an “illegal” vote? Is that a vote by the fantasy “illegal” alien? There are no “illegal” votes. But there are a whole lotta uncounted votes, suppressed votes, and gerrymandered votes. If every adult citizen has a Constitutional right to vote, then it is a Constitutional right to have every single vote counted. Go suppress some more votes. You nearly lost.
5
Only Florida--such monstrous incompetence. No wonder Bush-Gore was a reprehensible circus. But what do you do with Brenda Snipes, clearly well beyond her managerial abilities? Why wasn't she fired long ago--fear?
2
Apparently the defeated candidate for Governor thought that affirmative action would allow his election. Now he can’t accept defeat. Anyone surprised? That’s the Democratic way!
2
We need to upgrade our election system. They don't have to be identical or connected via the internet, but they should be able to take a vote as quick as you can order a shirt, shoes and socks online. There should be no long lines to discourage voting, it should be easy and over a period of time, not just one day. Let's encourage voting and participation, not discourage it. That may be the biggest difference between the two parties, Democrats welcome voters.
5
So the three most heavily Democratic counties in Florida, are being ignored due not to any ACTUAL reason, but because of incompetence and bureaucratic maneuvering with arbitrary deadlines. And the Democratic candidate for Senator, will never win a recount if they don't count the Democratic ballots. Funny how that all worked out, huh?
2
The time has come for this nation to take a real focus on being fair when it comes to politics and this means we and at the same time all our governments must focus on actually meeting the real needs of a true majority of taxpayers. The political party system is a mess and cannot be fair regardless of which party is the supposed winner. We must find a way to introduce elected individuals who are more open to the diverse needs of their constituents. To get to this point we must eliminate the political party system which today has an average support of around 50% for each party. Look at the number of elected officials who have the support of less than 51% of their voters. I am tired of hearing about the Florida senate election where there were more than 8 million voters and today there is a difference of less than 15 thousand between the two parties. Regardless of who finally wins the winner will claim to be the one the taxpayers really want. This is either a statement of ignorance or of political hypocrisy. How can anyone who gets ½ the votes claim to be representative of the people. What a misrepresentation of the truth, excuse me a lie! This political system needs …
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What is more important--an artificial deadline or counting every vote? Even if counting every vote cannot possibly change the outcome it still must be done. The legitimacy of our government depends on it. When voting is suppressed and legitimate votes are not counted those who are disenfranchised will turn to other means and that will be the end of our democracy.
4
Florida Robber Baron republicans are slapping WE THE PEOPLE - every single American citizen - hard in the face with their "limited time to count" scam.
The article says, "In all three counties that did not have recount results accepted, initial tallies reported before the statewide machine recounts will stand."
Broward and Palm Beach are democratic strongholds. Isn't it funny that they get antiquated voting equipment that doesn't work right? Isn't it funny that Broward was two minutes too late to have the votes counted?
NO. It's NOT funny. It's criminal.
Can WE THE PEOPLE file a massive civil lawsuit against Florida election officials for voter suppression and tampering? If so, NOW is the time.
This must not stand in OUR America. Not now. Not ever again.
4
Considering all the problems, the best solution is no longer a recount but a reVOTE, this time using a simple ballot with 4 names on it:
Scott or Nelson
Gillum or DeSantis
These votes could be counted by hand as they are turned in.
It would be a hassle, but it sure would be worth it.
7
Never gonna happen, but yep.
3
Every single vote should be counted. Why Florida cannot get it right like the rest of the country is bewildering. I don't trust Scott or the Florida GOP.
4
I'm a Democrat and very much wanted Nelson to win. However, I understand the reality that he's not going to. In the last recount in Florida, the final tally only changed by about 1,000 votes. Since Nelson is behind by over 12,000 votes, Scott has a pretty much insurmountable lead at this point even with a recount. That's ok, that's how the democratic process works.
The thing that I don't understand is why Scott is fighting so hard to prove that there is some sort of fraud going on. Why wouldn't he want a recount when it's going to go in his favor and completely legitimize his election? Why is he working so hard to essentially declare his win a sham? With all the information that's been made public, he should know that he's going to come out the winner, by a small margin nonetheless, but still the winner.
2
Yes, FL continues to be an election disgrace.
2
When men were men and beer was beer.
Yep, the paradox is that by me narrowing my views as much as humanly possible I've become more interesting than all of you. I have no time to listen to others, let alone ask for clarification of their points of view. Why, well, I'm just perfect just the way I am. So please don't wast your time getting in my face.
Signed, not gonna make me like that, ever!!!! One great manly belch to follow.
Please come back next week for the progressive version.
2
Broward county's late submission of the machine recount results, causing their rejection, is suspicious for a couple of reasons. First, they finished the machine recount with plenty of time but chose to wait until the last minute to submit it. Second, the machine recount actually increased Scott's lead by close to 800 votes, a result which Democratic officials in Broward county would not like. They had a political incentive to be late.
The will of the voters in Florida is to count all the votes. It's telling that Scott doesn't want that to happen. I fully support Senator Nelson in his effort to see the recount through to the end. If the odious Scott wins, so be it. But, if he doesn't let this play out, and he wins, he will have no legitimacy in the office.
5
Is it a coincidence that the governor and secretary of state are republicans and the tools used in democratic counties are broken and obsolete? Florida is a third world state not because of immigrants but because of corrupt republicans.
7
@CR Hare
Counties usually buy their own voting machines. That way they can get the ones they want. The Counties in Florida have the machines they want.
1
The only thing that should matter in a democratic election is that every vote be counted. Missing a deadline by 2 minutes is absurd. They should count until they have an accurate tabulation of every vote, including votes from overseas and especially votes sent it from members of the military! Any "politician" who tries to deny a legitimate vote should be immediately disallowed from representing anyone because they obviously do not believe in democracy.
90
Fair enough, but ur missing the point that all the votes were already counted. Why does one think counting the same votes again leads to a more accurate total?
3
@Ellen G. Thanks for the advice. I intend to file my taxes a day late and reference the now famous "absurd defense"
4
@Ellen G. Every vote LEGALLY cast should be counted, not every vote. Preserving the rule of law is what matters most.
4
Rick Scott has been Florida's Governor for 8 years. Now he does nothing but complain and sue. He had 8 years to fix this mess.
9
Florida needs to get its act together, plain and simple. As the judge said, Florida, the 3rd most populous state, is a laughing stock. But it is more critical than that as we jolly well know. It doesn't matter if you're republican or democrat, the vote needs to be accurate. 2020 is coming up. Get it together, Florida.
6
The Democrats lose the election and suddenly find boxes of uncounted ballots in school room closets, trunks or rental cars, etc.? Doesn't this seem just a little suspicious to you? The Dems wait until the election is over, see how many votes they lost by, and then all these suspicious boxes of ballots suddenly appear out of nowhere, and the post election recount starts to narrow the gap they lost by? Then they do a mandatory machine recount in Broward County and Rick Scott picks up 778 more votes, and increases his lead over Nelson, so the election supervisor turns in the results two minutes late, which nullifies the new vote count, and triggers a manual recount, which will make it easier for the Democrats to change ballots and manipulate the numbers? It's pretty obvious the Democrats are trying to steal election.
7
@dgbu: Actually, no, it doesn't seem suspicious. It just seems like Florida. I lived there for seven miserable years and my parents were often poll watchers. They had some hilarious stories to tell. Most of them had nothing to do with underhanded, nefarious dealings and everything to do with the fact that most people who worked the polls were senior citizens and, to put it nicely, we'll say that they were "forgetful." One year a man designated to transport a sack of votes simply left it in the trunk of his car and remembered it a few days later. And he was a Republican. As are most of the doddering old folks running the polls in vatious Florida counties.
3
So your position is that in a state controlled by Republicans, the Democrats have cleverly connived to change ballots so that they’re still behind by a margin they are very unlikely to overcome?
Boy, that there is some connivin’. Uh, could you explain exactly how this Cunning Plan of the Deep State works?
3
Florida's voting equipment is antiquated, that's just the way the GOP wants it.
9
For all the talk we hear from all sides of "government service" and "servants of the people" it is crystal clear in this Florida example that political positions are about "me" and "power." The frivolous spending of the people's money to attain that power, the patronizing speeches about "counting every (one of my) vote(s)" and the singular absence of a gracious or humble attitude speak volumes. A pox upon all of your houses.
3
Florida, and many other states, are an embarrassment to our Republic. Election Day should not be fraught with so many problems
We need an overhaul of our electoral process. For one, make voting rights a National right. The rules for voting should be transparent and promote inclusion. For example, early voting should be allowed in every state and voting registration should be easy. This should be overseen on a National level.
Two: machines in every district should be the most up to date possible
Three: Every voter should receive a paper receipt when voting so they can see who they voted for before their vote is finalized
Four: ballots need to be designed not on a county wide basis but at the least on a state wide basis.
These are just a few things to get our system straightened out so we can avoid these messes in the future.
55
Sloppy signature plea is at the best a flimsy ground for the vote rejection and a crude attempt at the disenfranchisement at its worst, specially against the infamous history of the vote count in Florida.
8
I viewed the badly drafted Broward Ballot and had to search for the Senate race on election day. What happens to ballots that a voter writes the name of Nelson/ Scott on it but does not bubble it ? Does it count on a manual recount ?
6
There is a simple solution to this election mess. Fill out an electronic ballot, that is then printed, you verify it, then walk over to the casting machine and cast it. The screen can be big and clear. In the age of buying everything online, you cannot say that voters are too stupid to click on box or circle or touch a screen correctly. Surely an iPad and printer are cheaper than the monstrosity being used in Florida today. Until then the state motto should be "Florida, where your vote only counts if it's for Republicans"
4
Having voter ID would solve many of the issues including signature matching. But most Democrats are against voter ID.
7
@Bramaz; The next logical question is why Democrats are opposed to a valid voter ID. The answer of course is simple. Fraud would be eliminated.
5
those are mail in ballots they are talking about...
2
Sigh. Few are against voter ID. We’re against creating new hoops that are harder to jump through in the total absence of serious voter fraud. And by the way, it ain’t Democrats who keep coming up with the paranoid fantasies about Big Brother stamping the Number of the Beast upon everybody.
That’s you guys.
3
If you have a conscience you will care about how you were elected. If you were legitimately elected. If you got the promotion because you earned it. Those without a conscience only care that they win or get that promotion and don’t care at all about anything else. Winning, by whatever means, is all the evidence of legitimacy they need.
7
Democrats will ask for recount after recount in the hopes that something will change. In the end, Scott will be the Senator, and already, DeSantis has won the governorship.
In the meantime, Democrat Abrams has lost for Governor of Georgia, but vows not to concede.
What a bunch of sore losers.
13
Florida is a mess but many other states are just as bad in terms of suppressing votes and not providing enough funds to count votes cast in a timely manner. How Florida is different in recent years is that it has had many close elections which sheds more light on these issues and problems.
6
If this country truly believed in our supposed founding principles, we would make sure that every who is eligible to vate has the opportunity and every legally cast vote is counted before calling an election.
Why make up some artificial deadline based on time.
What is the rush, to satisfy somebody's ego?
Oddly enough, I just voted in NY for the first time since 1976 and I wasn't even asked to show any sort of identification.
The worker at the polling place just looked up my name on the roll and asked me to sign, even while I was able to see the example of the signature I provided when I registered to vote.
Pretty weird.
At least in Tennessee, they asked to see my driver's license.
Of course in Tennessee they really get their backs up if you ask for a receipt.
2
I live in rural Florida. When I voted, I was asked for my security sleeve and the pollworker stared at my ballot as I fed it into the machine. Do I trust my ballot was safely kept and counted?
3
We have been promoting and exporting “Florida democracy” around the world for quite a long time. No wonder things have turned out the way they have.
3
Given the fact that Florida has done it again, forget the recounts and order new elections with monitors at all polling places.
4
How many recounts will the Democrats need to finally convince themselves that their candidates lost their races. They need to concede gracefully and move on. How much is this costing the taxpayers? I am sure it is very expensive and there is overtime pay involved. This money could be better spent on the citizens of Florida and not this wild goose chase which will not gain any new results. This is a terrible waste of time and money. The people should quietly protest this extravagance.
8
Counting votes shouldn't be that hard. Give this job to some 6th graders.
7
Ours is a country with the greatest technical minds in the world; for God's sake we have put men on the moon. Surely we can devise a voting system where every eligible voter gets to vote and have his vote counted fairly and accurately. But no, we leave the running of elections to politicians who are invested in the outcome.
It has been reported frequently that actual voter fraud is practically non-existent. No state that has passed restrictive voter id laws has documented an actual problem with voter fraud. These laws, enamored of Republican legislatures, exist solely to deprive certain segments of the public of their legitimate right to vote, i.e. voters who would most likely vote for non-Republican candidates.
Texas passed a voter id law requiring valid photo id for anyone wishing to vote. A gun permit would be accepted as valid id but a student id would not. Thus gun owners were welcome to vote but students were not.
Minnesota passed a voter registration law requiring a voter to have a street address for his domicile rather than a P. O. box, thus rendering most native Americans ineligible to vote.
The list goes on. Now we have have bureaucrats pretending to be handwriting experts disenfranchising voters. Shame on you, Florida.
10
Do you really believe your readers are not smart enough to figure out that the recount in broward county, if timely filed, would have given the Republican more votes?
7
It’s noteworthy that these highly dysfunctional counties — Broward and Palm Beach — are run entirely by highly partisan Democrats. And they can’t even cheat on time.
8
Scott lost 1000 votes because Ms. Snipes reported two minutes late.
This seems blatantly improper, if not unconstitutional?
8
As a teacher, presentation of information is critical. There should be some standardization of the ballots used throughout the country. The design and lay out the ballot should be uniform and tested for ease of use and readability. The typeface (style and size) should be considered as well. This is not rocket science.
A lot of these problems could be avoided by a standardized ballot along with public service commercials that educate people how to complete them. The specific content would vary by state and region, but their appearance could be standardized.
In fact, education on how to vote and how to complete a ballot could begin in the senior year of high school. How is this not part of any mandated HS social studies curriculum? Voting is one of the most sacred duties of any citizen in a democracy. That we find ourselves here again is an embarrassment. And know there are forces on both sides that are already lining up to contest the 2020 election results. That is what concerns me the most.
9
Florida’s recount is yet another degrading episode of our so called democracy. How can America claim, having a corrupted electoral college process, rampant gerrymandering and partisan vote exclusion, to be the greatest, freest and most democratic country in the world? Easily, not only stable geniuses are the ones deluded.
5
Points to ponder:
A slim lead is still a lead. However, when the count differences are in the tens of thousands, I cannot see how the contestant with the lower count hopes to catch up and bypass the guy with the higher count. Don't people have even a small knack for statistics?
The election supervisor in Broward County showed her inconpetence crystal clear. She should be dismissed for that reason.
7
The only way to clean this mess up is for Scott and Nelson to flip a coin...quit being little boys...step up and be Men. Flip a coin and end this debacle...
Did all those folks who voted for De Santis think through how totally unprepared he will be to govern? Another joke like his pal Donald.
9
@laurenlee3 I'm (still) a registered Democrat who voted for DeSantis. Why? Because I care about my own personal safety, and Gillum wants to disarm LEO's and open prisons, while creating sanctuary cities in FL. I also care about my property's value, and know that runaway violent crime, which Gillum accepts, lowers property values and scares away both tourists and businesses. (Look at Baltimore, St. Louis, Detroit.)
The votes will keep being counted until a Democrat wins!
6
As usual blatant corruption and racism holds the upper hand in Florida elections.
9
Republicans seem devoted to not counting all ballots. No changes will be made until January. These arbitrary time limits are absurd. Antiquated equipment, refusal of federal money to update, amateurs analyzing handwriting, anyone have another reason to not count? No one running for office should be allowed to preside over elections.
9
Best that we don’t go around the world pointing out voting irregularities and fraud in distant lands when we have this in spades in many states in our own country.
9
@JJ Leave that task to the Unfit States of America.
1
So both Broward and Palm Beach Counties reported fewer votes the second time around. In contested Palm Beach the number was called significant. Where did all the votes go and who where they for?
6
The Democrats in the Senate and Governor races were never going to win. No recount in our nations history has ever reversed a vote margin as large as the ones in these two races.
2
Countries around the world prove routinely that elections are just not that hard to do right. Is the problem that we see so routinely in American elections proof of incompetence or choice?
5
@somewhatbrightening The problem is proof of both: citizen incompetence and partisan choice.
2
The only opportunity we voting citizens have in determining the direction of the state is scuttled through incompetence of the government we elect. We reap what we sow.
4
There is no doubt that Florida is simply not interested in counting every person's vote. Our laws that say "one man, one vote" do not matter to the election officials. The constitution does not matter, in other words.
4
Enough of Florida- let’s just see if Spain will take it back and put an end to its election hijinks.
4
The Sunshine State. How ironic.
5
And to think “snowbirds” juggle their Florida residence time to save paying taxes in their home states. But to have their votes tampered with in Florida?
People, is it worth it? Where’s your self esteem!
4
This is a perfect example of why a standard methodology of not only how ballots are printed, but also how votes are cast and counted. To have different methods in every state, to have arbitrary rules suddenly pop up, (North Dakota and Florida, e.g.) is ridiculous.
This is the time to have a serious discussion in the Congress that in the case of voting, polling places, ballot configuration, etc., it be uniform in all 50 states.
If we are truly the United States of America it seems obscene that many are disenfranchised only because it is the whim of their governor or powers that be.
10
It's not just Florida which is a laughingstock around the world, it is the entire US voting system. It may have been good a hundred years ago, but it definitely ain't now.
6
It is ridiculous that error-prone machine counting is still being done when it has been shown time after time to be flawed. Australia has a much more complex vote count (preferential, sometimes called instant run off) and votes are counted by hand, with all but the closest results called on election day.
To do this, the different votes each need to be on a separate ballot – that would also eliminate issues like the apparent confusion where the Senate vote was missed by some voters arising from poor design of the ballot.
It is also ludicrous that voting is managed by partisan officials – many countries have independent electoral commissions.
3
Scott and DeSantis were both ahead by wide margins on election night (and still are) and those races should have been called a long time ago.
However, considering how much personal political capital both Trump and Obama put in those races, they became a surrogate for Trump v Obama (the media would have certainly played it that way if the Democrats had won.)
Trump beat Obama, and hence the freak out.
6
Most countries in the world count manually in the first place, and get election results within hours. What is wrong with that?
7
Is Broward County suing to get its recount considered? It is absurd that votes won’t be counted because of a two-minute delay. The article isn’t clear on what is happening. It is not enough for Rick Scott to recuse himself from overseeing his election, his minions should be banished as well. An independent group should take charge of the recounts and also certify the election.
6
What is the prevailing argument for not extending the deadline for the recount, when the disproportionally biggest vote counts in the three most popoulous counties couldn’t make it in time?
Broward election staff worked around the clock and saw their tally invalidated because it arrived a few hours after some random time set previously? Palm Beach couldn’t finish because machines overheated and there were power outages.
This means that two out of the three races in question didnt receive their due vote counts.
“No one has the right to have their vote counted twice,” argued the secretary of state’s lawyer and the judge agreed. What about the overseas and military ballots that had to be counted after election day? Where’s the logic in not extending the vote count for a few days so people can do their jobs? Florida is once again another word for travesty of justice.
4
Our nation now has two political parties with very different visions of democracy. The Democratic party wants every citizen to vote and then have their votes be counted. The Undemocratic party wants to suppress the votes of individuals likely to vote for the other party and then lie about it. As the demographics of our nation continue to change, justice will eventually prevail and we will once again have a true democracy.
4
I'm amazed at the amount of time, effort and money is spent trying exclude people from voting. You would think that in a country that continuously claims to be the greatest, freest, and most democratic in the world, that every ounce of strength would be spent to assure that every vote was counted, and that the most modern and efficient procedures and equipment would be used to assure that goal.
Florida is one of the worst examples of democracy in action in the entire world.
141
@Ex New Yorker Every vote was counted. Not every vote was recounted. Additionally, the move back to paper ballot scanning was Democratic Governor Charlie Crist’s baby.
4
@Ex New Yorker:To John; If every vote had been truely counted; why do the vote tallies keep changing? If the Republicans won fair and square fine.But to deny there has been a massive effort by the G.O.P. to suppress and deny voting among minorities who overwhelmingly vote Democrat is a joke. It is beyond shameful that the Republican Party will try to do anything to tilt elections in their favor is an undeniable fact. It is just so pathetic that they are allowed to get away with it.
12
@John: Except that Christie was a Republican when he was governor of Florida, working in tandem with the Republican party. He switched parties after leaving office.
3
The election's oversight is the responsibility of the Sec. of State, which has been a Republican for more than a decade. Removal of incompetent election supervisors is up to the Florida Gov. (Rick Scott!) And the Sec. of State should have certainly known that Palm Beach County was using only 4 completely outdated ballot scanners, which would be inadequate! Why would Palm Beach County, home to Trump's Mar-A-Largo Club, and the third-largest county in the state, not have enough money to fund better equipment and more staff? Miami-Dade County used nine high-speed ballot counters, capable of recounting three elections simultaneously, and ran the machines 24-hrs a day utilizing a paid staff of 100 workers and 200 temp workers hired to assist.
2
What's a vote ?
If the signatures don't match .. is that a vote for a mail in ballot? People -- It's not possible to track down a voter to ask if they signed the ballot incorrectly! How many election workers would we need? The signatures have to match -- that's the verification!
Provisional ballots are all hand sorted and verified -- often the voter is not registered. There is a reason they are not on the roles and most times it's not nefarious.
Having voted in PA/NJ/NY -- it's so easy ... but, you still have to follow a few simple steps and sign the mail in ballot correctly.
Brenda Snipes denied Scott 1000 votes by reporting 2 minutes late.
Way to go Brenda!
2
Two questions:
1. If under state law, a manual recount is ordered when the margin is less than 0.25 percentage points, then it really doesn’t matter what the candidates want or whether anyone concedes. Or is the recount not done if one of the candidates concedes?
2. There is a reported 12,000 vote difference but the article also states Broward County votes were not accepted because they were two minutes late. Would NY Times reporters please let us know if the Broward votes are included, and if they aren’t included does this mean Broward might swing Nelson into the lead?
1
In future I suggest that international observers be invited to scrutinize elections in Florida and elsewhere in the US. This is often done in developing democracies to ensure elections are fair and properly run. It seems that the so-called “greatest democracy in the world” could use a little help!
3
I'm not buying it. Something else is up. 22,000 votes in one county alone were legitimately and correctly thrown out because the voter selected both candidates or did not select either candidate?
1
In Australia, the electoral commission looked at voting machines, decided they weren't secure enough or good enough and stuck with pencil and paper. Old technology but it works better than anything in Florida.
4
When voters cast their ballots in time, those votes should be counted - the voters are not at fault for the government's inability to count those ballots by an arbitrary government-set deadline. If the government can't make its own deadline, the deadline should be extended because, again, the voters did nothing wrong. Rather they properly exercised the single most important right they have in what is supposed to be this democracy. What the state and county governments in Florida are doing is nothing less than taking away that right. This cannot be allowed to happen. No deadline should prevent the counting of properly cast votes.
8
Florida election laws were updated after the 2000 debacle, creating an automatic recount of votes in races closer than half a percentage. Legally, military personnel have until Nov. 16 for their votes from overseas to reach the election offices to be counted. The law clearly states that the county election offices have to state why they were unable to meet the deadline in recounts, but that the canvassing board should continue counting the votes. I am waiting to see how that will be addressed, along with the fact that a majority of "provisional" ballots were cast by young first-time voters, whose names were NOT on precinct rolls (which means the rolls were not updated before the midterms) but they were verified online to be registered voters. I do not see why they had to cast a provisional ballot in the first place if they were verified to be registered voters. Many of them were asked to sign the provisional ballots with their fingers on a touch screen -- and then their signatures were sometimes red-flagged as not matching their registration signature. What a MESS! We can register online and update our voter registration online. To have consistency, I think we should be voting online!
1
Being both Canadian and American, I think that the major challenge is that the American ballot is so much longer. My recent Texas ballot was a modest three legal pages of over 50 races and five or six referenda to change the state constitution or authorize school board tax increases . It is not a simple x ballot and it takes even the speediest voter 15 minutes to vote.
In the last presid3ntial year ballot, I think my ballot was over five pages long.
3
There are so many inconsistencies between Florida's 67 counties --- Miami-Dade appoints its elections supervisor, who has a paid staff of 100 workers, was able to utilize nine high-speed ballot scanners, and able to hire 200 temporary workers in order to count votes around the clock for 73 hour to sprint to the recount finish line. What the heck is wrong with Palm Beach County? Don't the rich folks at Trump's Mar-A-Largo Club pay enough property tax and other county fees to fund proper equipment and election workers. Everyone in Palm County should feel like they let down Florida voters, and prevented a statewide election where everyone's vote counted.
103
Having moved to Florida last year from Iowa, where they know how to run elections, I was shocked by how elections are run down here. This signature matching is insane!
11
@Jeff -- My Democratic-Party dominated county just has mail-in voters sign their name in a box that spans the place where the envelope is sealed... as a way to ensure that the envelope was not previously opened. But in my mother's Republican-Party dominated county, she is required to do about 6 things, including a return address, postage (my ballot was postage-free, her's required postage,) along with printing the date and printing your name in the middle of the back of the envelope, and then signing on the bottom in a box. That has to be GOP #votersuppression.
5
@mjpezzi I seem to remember a report a few days account where the Election SUpervisor in Palm said her machines got overheated and she had to stop some recount or other.
3
12,600 is probably too large of a margin to overcome through the partial manual recount and consideration of rejections due to signature problems that will now take place.
The story would be quite different if Broward County had not used a confusing ballot that led to under voting for the senate race in the county. The Washington Post estimated that almost 25,000 more residents voted for governor than senator in the county probably due to the confusing ballot. If those people had voted in the same proportion the rest of the county voted, the difference between governor Scott and senator Nelson would now be around 3000.
41
@underdog...It stands to reason that the putative 25,000 under voters would be Republicans. Conservatives are uninformed and poorly educated, so they would be confused by a poorly worded ballot. They also have short attention spans, so ballot fatigue undoubtedly was a factor. I wonder who was responsible for writing the confusing ballot in Broward County? Was voter suppression involved?
1
Electoral Darwinism at work in Florida.
"...26 percent of the ballots rejected for user error belonged to people under 30, even though young voters constituted only about 7 percent of those who voted by mail."
3
What’s your source? How can we possibly tie vote counts to age or any other metric? My guess is that old geriatrics are more responsible for this than millennials.
2
@Jeff Ageism.
Can anyone really explain why counting all of the votes, no matter how long it takes, isn't the first step in every election?
13
Even before the recount was ordered, Nate Silvers fivethirtyeight noted that Broward County’s “undervoting” rate, that is ballots only partially filled out, was about 3.6% meaning that about 26,000 fewer votes were cast in the senate than governor race. That rate was about four times higher than the state-wide average undervote. If it’s a machine counting error it could swing the vote.
5
@AAA The most likely result of the undervoting is once again due to the incompetence of Broward County Supervisor of Elections Brenda Snipes, who designed the ballot. The entire first column of the front page ballot was voter information, with the all-important US Senate race at the very bottom of that first column. The Governor's race was at the top of the 2nd column, followed by the Agriculture Secretary etc. That's why 26,000 more voters voted for Governor, and more voters also voted for Agriculture Secretary vs US Senator Bill Nelson vs Gov. Rick Scott. Most disturbing to me is that Broward County got off to a very late start counting votes -- Tuesday morning! Then supposedly missed the deadline by two minutes on Thursday, and so went with the original vote count! I really have to believe that Brenda Snipes deliberately missed the deadline, and we should all want to know WHY!
1
“It is not over until every legally casted vote is counted.”
Precisely right. Anything less is undemocratic, unpatriotic, and a total embarrassment to the values we are supposed to be upholding in this country. Are you listening, Republicans?
11
Shades of Al Gore vs Bush! Who needs Russians to scramble the votes, when we can shoot ourselves in the foot without them?
"Broward County, where election workers had toiled late into the night for days on end to recount their votes, saw it all amount to nothing when state officials rejected the tally as too late."
And what do you mean, a tally is too late? A citizen's vote is a vote, and should be counted, whether it takes weeks or months. Who would have won if those votes had been accepted?
Florida is a disgrace! But it may also be an example of what's going on, all over this . . . er . . . democracy. Where is Jimmy Carter when we need him?!
8
This is an outrage. EVERY VOTE SHOULD BE COUNTED.
"Broward County, the scene of several years of vote-counting problems, was two minutes late in reporting its data and state officials refused to accept its tallies.
Who are these officials who refused to accept Broward county's tallies because Broward County was TWO MINUTES LATE ?
The New York Times should find out the name of every official involved, and publish it, along with their e-mail addresses and phone numbers.
" Authorities in Hillsborough County said they could not submit recount totals because their new tally had 846 fewer votes than originally counted. The office had two power failures during the recount that may have led to the discrepancy, they said."
How can the State of Florida deny a recount when there have been power failures that have precluded a proper recount ?
Why has the State imposed any deadline ?
Do those in power in the State of Florida believe that Americans have forgotten the butterfly-ballot debacle, and that the Governor of Florida was the brother of the candidate to whom the Presidency was handed on a silver platter ?
Does the State of Florida want to be known as the most corrupt state in the United States ?
The citizens of the United States can not allow this to happen.
American elections can not be turned into the fake elections that take place in countries that are run by dictators.Then again, the United States is staring to look more and more like a dictatorship.
8
Why wouldn't someone want every vote counted? What is Rick Scott afraid of? Is he so weak and pathetic that he needs to engage in a political game to win? Apparently, YES.
Scott was CEO of Columbia/HCA when the hospital company was fined $1.7 billion for Medicare fraud.
How can some grotesque fraudster become Governor of, and potentially a Senator from, Florida? Thank the under-educated, the ill informed, and the deplorables.
6
This is what happens when elections are administered by partisans. Of course that has been the way of things in the South for centuries, with an unbroken chain of voter suppression from 1870 to today. The methods evolve. The purpose does not.
The Democratic Party cut out the cancer that was eating it when it passed the Voting Rights Act and the Dixidrats moved en masse to the GOP. And now the cancer they represent has consumed the GOP, reaching its apotheosis with the elevation of a con artist to the White House.
As for the Republicans constant cry of vote fraud--I'm reminded of an old Russian saying: "Whoever is shouting 'Stop! Thief!' the loudest--that's the thief."
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@Ehkzu
The right -wing SCOTUS majority in Shelby County vs Holder cut the heart out of the Voting Rights Act by substituting it's judgment for bipartisan findings that color aka race was still a problem. Thus eliminating pre-clearance from the US Justice Department for any change in voting rights qualifications. And the sons of Confederate Alabama Addison Mitchell McConnell,Jr. and Jefferson Beauregard Sessions, III saw to it that the defect was not addressed by legislation.
7
@Ehkzu
Devoted Democrat Brenda Snipes has become the poster child of Corrupted Election Officals going back years. Her history is truly astounding - yet, there se sits.
Democrats own political corruption- it's in their DNA. Look at all the single-party big cities. Now their desperation is becoming obvious - and more violent.
Meanwhile, Republicans tend to work for a living and they tend not to end up in lower levels of state or local government.
3
@L'osservatore Are you aware that the poorly designed ballot which resulted in undervoting for the Senate race in Broward County would have benefited the Republican candidate, because Broward leans Democratic? Yes, I know Scott called called the situation in FL was due to fraud but it appears to be more ineptitude. Missing the deadline to report the machine recount by 2 minutes would be yet another example.
And your comment about cities and Republicans that work for a living? Appears you are also not aware that those single-party blue cities subsidize those hardworking people in the red states. You are welcome!
2
The heart of Rick Scott's argument is that voter suppression can't achieve the intended result if one allows all of the votes to be counted. I have little doubt that our tainted SCOTUS will support this legal distortion if given the chance... until the day their crooked masters are no longer the beneficiaries. May you live in interesting times indeed. Diminishing Integrity is like the rising seas... first you don't believe, then you are swamped and it is too late to do anything but gargle.
2
"...they disproportionately affected young voters. Daniel A. Smith, an elections expert at the University of Florida, said 26 percent of the ballots rejected for user error belonged to people under 30..."
Let me get this right.
In the US, young voters under 30 do not know how to fill out a ballot form properly, and to boot, counting machines overheat!
You do know the prerequisites for a democracy, don't you?
@achana A large majority of young voters were voting for the first time, and when they went to vote, their names were not on precinct voting rolls -- which obviously had not been updated for the midterms! because the precinct workers were able to verify that they were registered voters in the system, but they were still not allowed to vote a regular ballot. They were given "provisional" ballots if they were verified registered voters but not on the precinct rolls. Many were told to use their finger to sign on a touch screen for the provisional ballots, which were later rejected due to signature miss-matches. That is 26,000 missing votes for Bill Nelson is my guess!
1
The Secretary of State of each state, or Lieutenant Governor, are ultimately responsible for the success, or problems of each election, regarding equipment, the number of polling places, the number of people attending to all of it. Also, as more and more ballots are mailed in, that actually requires more time to count, as they must each be opened, checked, etc. Competence, at all levels starting at the top, down to the local polling places, plus enough workers, working equipment, enough polling places, and hours long enough to give all voters the opportunity to vote are necessary, especially in very populated places. Florida doesn't seem to have that working especially in the counties of Broward and Palm Beach that together have a combined population of 3.3 million people, and the fact that some in Broward County missed the section for voting for Senate had a huge discrepancy in the numbers of votes casts because of the design of the ballot, Palm Beach's machines malfunctioned not counting all the ballots. It is not over yet!
2
“‘There is no constitutional right to have your vote counted a second time or a third time,’ Mohammad Omar Jazil, a lawyer for the Florida secretary of state, told the court.”
There is a Constitutional right to have your vote counted and we have statutes that mandate the exact procedure to be followed when elections are closely contested. There is zero time pressure. Count each vote cast. Stop suppressing the rights of our fellow citizens.
8
Interesting, that Palm Beach County, which has antiquated and inadequate voting machines, is also the county of Trump’s “Mar-a-Lago” luxury-wealthy resort....
I’m sure he’s not interested in up-to-date, accurate, unhackable voting machines!
6
Oh Florida, how could you elect Ron DeSantis as your governor? So sad.
9
@Irwin Hewitt Right. Why should Floridians care about their own personal safety? Why wouldn't they want a cop hater from the most crime ridden county in FL as Governor? Why wouldn't they want a Governor who plans to drive businesses out of the state by punitive taxes, and will try to create a state income tax in a state full of seniors on fixed incomes?
I think his quote was probably "clear and UNambiguous, just as they were on election night"... (and if he really did say "clear and abigious" perhaps a [sic] is needed)
2
Fake win. I hope he was not in control of his voter registration like the other southern republican is . The culture of corruption the GOP support amazes me how they still win . Their supporters are ignorant to continue to support their rise to power. Very sad.
2
But Mr. DeSantis said the new results were “clear and ambiguous, just as they were on election night.”
I guess that's why a recount is necessary. As DeSantis said, results are AMBIGUOUS. Sigh.
4
I have my fingers crossed that Bill Nelson will be triumphant and the entitled & arrogant Rick Scott will be defeated.
10
The story quotes DeSantis as saying the new results are clear and ambiguous. Is that a correct quote? If so, I’m printing and framing it! Too funny.
1
I’m confused. Mr DeSantis says the results are « clear and ambiguous »? How can they be both?
3
They are clearly ambiguous...
1
America’s so great we can’t even properly feign democracy. That’s hysterical.
7
One thing is clear; the man is not educated.
"But Mr. DeSantis said the new results were “clear and ambiguous, just as they were on election night.”
Clear and ambiguous.
Clear, and ambiguous.
An elementary mistake in grammar that reveals the essence of the entire race. One could say it was Freudian.
7
The nerve of Rick Scott to ask Bill Nelson to concede is incredible.
This is one of the closest races this country has ever seen. Every vote must be counted (and counted again.)
Scott actually went to the Congressional freshmen orientation in Washington despite the fact that he hasn't been declared the winner. What a jerk.
12
This is illegitimate. The republicans are stealing the election. VOTER FRAUD. Republican FAKE election. And, whatever they are calling the Democrats.
5
But Mr. DeSantis said the new results were “clear and ambiguous, just as they were on election night.”
Did he mean unambiguous or did someone quote him incorrectly?
3
I love it. Isn't Trump's Mar-al-lago located in Palm Beach County? What an embarrassment. His own home county can't afford new voting machines.
4
Because trump doesn't pay the taxes that could go towards functioning voter machines
1
You have to love it, when Rick Scott calls for someone to be gracious.
6
I was not surprised to read that it is young peoples' signatures that are not matching.
Older voters probably signed their names on thousands of checks over the years, gradually standardizing a signature, but young people came of age after we'd all transitioned to using debit cards with pin numbers. Even when you do need to sign something, it's likely an unwieldy digital tablet.
10
@Susan Kraemer Many young people were voting for the first time, and their names were not found on precinct voting rolls (that were evidently not updated!) but their names were verified as registered voters. So they were told that they had to vote "provisional" ballots. Many were asked to sign their provisional ballots using their finger on a touch screen. What's that going to match?
5
But Mr. DeSantis said the new results were “clear and ambiguous, just as they were on election night.”
Did he mean ambiguous, because that's what most of us think. or did DeSantis mean unambiguous and someone quote him incorrectly?
1
The Florida races were the closest we got to Trump v Obama as they both went, all in, for their candidates.
Trump beat Obama (and Oprah and the media and lesser celebrities.)
5
Have you conveniently forgot that the country rejected Trump with a blue wave, winning back the House by a historical margin and turning long time Republican districts blue? Florida and Georgia were exceptions that “coincidentally” had Republican candidates in charge of the vote count and disenfranchised voters on a large scale. Republicans can only win when they gerrymander the heck out of a state or find some “clever” way to strip away the voting privileges of minorities, the young and the poor.
1
Once again - Florida demonstrates to the rest of the nation how not to run an election.
16
No matter how you slice it, Florida is deeply disturbing. Here is an ethnically diverse, coastal state that — despite the nastiness of Trump — elects an unapologetic Trump lover for governor. How that happens is completely unclear and deeply disappointing. I would love to see a real analysis of how the votes broke down in Florida. I’d like to see how the Jewish vote went, the Cuban vote, the retired age group, etc. I think the Latino vote is very complex. It’s too broad a category for a very complex demographic. Mexicans, Cubans, Hondurans — cannot all be put in a simple super category. And, of course, politicians are very good at wedging. That’s how they slice and dice. Please some real data and analysis.
4
@Tough Call Your reasons for singling out certain groups strikes me as troubling. Many Jews recognize that Trump is the most pro-Israel president in many decades... and many Hispanics in Florida are not immigrants.
1
One thing's certain: the Puerto Rican backlash over Irma and Maria, if it materialized at all, was not enough to push back both GOP voter suppression and willing-for-some-reason GOP voters.
Interesting that it's the voters of Palm Beach County, the home of Mar a Lago, that are disenfranchised.
2
After the first recount, Governor Rick Scott increased his lead over Senator Bill Nelson by 865 votes.
How is that even possible?
5
Count ALL the VOTES. Otherwise, this is absolutely Cheating.
Thanks, GOP.
11
It is my general advice that whenever some politician or somebody at work declares “that it’s time to move forward,” you should immediately check your wallet.
10
You'd think that 18 years after the 2000 Florida debacle the state would have figured out how to conduct an election, fixed the machines or whatever. No such luck. Maybe there's been some corruption or something, ya think?
6
A confusing and "busy" voter sheet was designed on purpose it seems. There were specific recommendations after the 2000 elections NOT to do it this way!
Your state needs to move forward.
Same statement made by Republicans in 2000..Right before the wars for oil and the great modern depression started.
4
I'm with Gillum all the way considering the outrageous examples reported in the Times yesterday.
Republicans ought to be ashamed, but shame is so yesterday. Lie, cheat, enable the Lier-in-Chief - whatever it takes to keep total power.
If ineligible folks were trying to vote, I'd say yipee -considering the embarrassingly low numbers of citizens who actually vote. Alas, for the Republican agenda, no voter fraud has really been found anywhere. Of course, spreading fake news about voter fraud is their specialty - undoubtedly inspired by the Republican toddler in the Oval Office.
8
WHY would anybody with an apparent insurmountable lead object to a recount?
Only one reason: the apparently insurmountable lead may vanish, the way it almost did when Jeb Bush and his brother’s campaign chair for the state, managed, with what amounted to a ballot designed to cause elderly Jewish voters looking to see Democratic VP candidate Joe Lieberman invalidate their ballots, by actually voting for Al Gore AND Pat Buchanan.
PB said at the time “these aren’t my voters! I know where my voters come from!”
Didn’t matter, Jeb derived Florida for brother GW Bush, which delivered the nation for GW Bush.
Legally, those ballots were voided by the folks who cast them not (or unable) to read the fine print.
But had I been in GWB’s shoes, I would have directed my Electoral College delegates to “vote for the nation’s choice - Gore beat me fair and square in the popular vote - and, really in Florida as well - it’s my ethical duty to try again four years from now.”
Guess that’s why I’m not President.
2
Seriously? Florida, again? The tally system needs to be changed after
almost twenty years. I am also beginning to believe all of these people graduated from an experimental educational program designed by Betsy Devos.
6
I guess Rick Scott and POTUS don’t want to comply with Florida law regrading requirements for manual recounts. Why not?
4
“We have been the laughingstock of the world, election after election,” Judge Mark E. Walker of the Federal District Court in Tallahassee told lawyers Thursday morning. “Yet we still chose not to fix it.”
And WHY might that be? Especially in view of tainted the 2000 results, the 2016 results and now the 2018 results, ALL manipulated in favor or...surprise, surprise!... the so-called "Republicans," who have resorted to gerrymandering and rigging elections to seize and maintain power.
8
Roger Stone admitted in an interview that his has been consulting with Florida Republicans concerning the recount. So watch out.
4
I just can't believe so many Floridians want to be governed by DeSantis. Weird.
3
Nonsense! The claim that Broward County filed its results a two minutes after 3 p.m., is nonsense.
The recount would not had withstood any degree of scrutiny.
1
How Rick Scott manages to stay out of jail after his company's huge Medicare fraud can only be chalked up to Republican cronyism.
11
Florida elections are a shameful disgrace and an assault on our fundamental democracy. Antiquated vote counting machines in some heavily populated counties that burn hot and breakdown and far too little time allowed that allow all ballots cast are fairly examined and tabulated.
It makes an absolute mockery of the electoral process.
It's made worse when a standing Governor is in charge of an election when he is an interested party and actively manuevering to keep the count in his favor. Strikingly similar to a banana republic.
8
Does anyone actually think that the entire election process in Florida is due to JUST incompetence ??? Um, NO. It's designed that way. Easier to cheat and steal elections. Seriously. COUNT ALL VOTES.
Period.
8
Florida has been under Republican control for how many years? And as of two weeks ago the state is still unable to conduct a straightforward election? And it's all the fault of the Democrats? Because, of course, the only explanation is fraud?
????????????????????????????????
4
Let me remind everyone posting...ALL the votes have already been counted. This is a second or third attempt...
2
@Beetle Military votes from overseas are legal and must be counted if they arrive by Nov. 16th. The majority of "provisional" ballots -- NOT COUNTED -- came from young, first-time voters, whose names were not on the precinct rolls, but whose names were verified within the online voter registration database as registered voters. This means the precinct voter rolls were not properly updated before the midterm.
1
Maybe if Florida had a state income tax, it would have the funds to purchase functioning voting machines and update its systems. You get what you pay for.
6
Florida needs a new way to count votes. Obviously beyond any other issues, the current system is heavily flawed. Less partisanship and more cooperation wouldn't hurt either.
3
Nelson's only real hope lies in about 26,000 Broward votes that had neither Senate candidate selected while other votes were filled in. The Dems say poor ballot design (the box for senate was off on its own under a column of instructions) caused machines to not count these votes, while the Republicans say the placement simply made voters miss voting for Senate. With Broward running 60/30% in favor of Nelson, if Nelson is right, he'd pick up over 15,000 votes, putting him ahead. We'll know on Sunday.
6
Would it be an over reach for a court to rule that the continued use of antiquated voting machines that are incapable of tabulating correctly, and being audited in a timely and accurate manner, is a denial of the voting rights of the people of that jurisdiction?
5
We call ourselves the greatest democracy in the world and don’t know how to count the votes. The judge is correct when he said the rest of the world is laughing. I don’t know about the rest of the world but certainly India must be laughing being the largest democracy and never had the problem of counting the vote. It is time to out source the elections of the Florida state to India to preserve the integrity of the elections.
3
Mr. DeSantis said the result was "clear and ambiguous"? I do not think this word means what he thinks it means.
2
What kind of system would void someone's vote because an election office could not meet the deadline or the official left a batch of ballots at the post office?
8
We can safely conduct financial transactions online but we can't vote. Guess this would make voter suppression to hard.
2
There they go again...Florida that is. How amazing that with all the modern technology we live with, no one has come up with a solution to an efficient way of counting the votes. All this does is discourage people from voting, wondering if their vote will be counted. Every single vote must be counted regardless of how long it takes. That's called democracy.
6
If Rick Scott was Governor and could not (or would not) clean up the mess that is the Florida voting process, then he does not deserve the office of Senator.
10
@MG
The election is a county responsibility.
1
@KBronson The election's oversight is the responsibility of the Sec. of State, which has been a Republican for more than a decade. Removal of incompetent election supervisors is up to the Florida Gov. (Rick Scott!) And the Sec. of State should have certainly known that Palm Beach County was using only 4 completely outdated ballot scanners, which would be inadequate! Why would Palm Beach County, home to Trump's Mar-A-Largo Club, and the third-largest county in the state, not have enough money to fund better equipment and more staff? Miami-Dade County used nine high-speed ballot counters, capable of recounting three elections simultaneously, and ran the machines 24-hrs a day utilizing a paid staff of 100 workers and 200 temp workers hired to assist.
1
@MG
The Governor needs to keep his hands of the ballot box if he did not it could be conflict of interest.
I live in Hillsborough county and we don't have any problems.
It is the Democratic Broward county that has problems.
The Democrats took their eye of the ball a long long time ago. They thought they knew what they were doing when BO was elected twice. However it was merely guilt and then infatuation. They were wrong. The big surprise is- they no longer recognize "the ball". They don't know where or what it is. Should we tell them? No that wont work we've already tried that.
ALL VOTES MATTER.
No exceptions, No excuses.
4
Florida is one of the states where the Republican party has control over the Governors office, the State Senate, and the State House for some years. If they had wanted to do anything about their election problems, it would seem they were certainly in the position to make it happen, and they have had the time to make the required adjustments, similar to Georgia. It appears it must be in their best interest of Republicans to have poorly run elections, which they can manipulate more easily, or they would have done something about it by now. Just another Republican scam.
9
Imagine the mayhem and chaos if every eligible voter voted.
Only 49 percent of eligible voters participated in the elections and what a mess on every level. Seems that the funds, organization, even respect, for allowing everyone to vote and every vote to be counted are just not available—troubling in a country with democratic ideals.
To combat voter fraud allegations, how about voters must dip their forefingers in indelible purple ink cf: Iraq – problem solved.
Simple is sometimes the best (and cheapest) of all solutions.
1
Signature verification - the piece does not say, but all the other FL counties probably had the same problem, that some signatures did not match, and the votes consequently were not counted, in both red counties and blue counties alike.
These rejected votes because of signature mismatches should be handled uniformly the same way, in all FL counties, red and blue. It is a problem for all counties, not just Broward and Palm Beach. Broward and Palm Beach can complain that these votes were not counted, but so too can all the other counties, who already managed to report their tallies on election night without problematic votes, where Broward and Palm Beach could not.
Same with under and over counts – these should be handled uniformly the same way, in all FL counties, red and blue.
It is not ideal that the 'errors' result in uncounted votes. But if the same errors occurred across the state, a very purple state, where the electorate is almost evenly split between red and blue, then the uncounted votes in blue counties such as Broward and Palm Beach are evened out by uncounted votes for the same reasons in red counties. It is imperfect but uniform. Or else uniformly count such votes manually across the state and not just 2 counties. Uniformity being the key.
It is a heartbreaker that Broward missed their deadline, but how can the other FL counties report the results on-time but not Broward? Not even with a 10 day extension? FL needs a lessons learned part II.
3
@Philly
PARTS of Florida. Elections in Florida are the responsibility of a county elected official. They are responsible for obtaining whatever equipment is needed as well. Elections have consequences. If people election a known incompetent to manage their counties elections, they jeopardize their vote counting at all. No one is responsible for saving us from our own civic malfeasance as voters.
2
The use of signature as identity verification is an idea whose time has come and gone. Who among us, especially when we were young, hasn’t altered their signature in some way?
I’m positive my signature isn’t the same as when I registered to vote more than a decade ago.
5
Here is a further conundrum about changing to make very vote count. The way to change the electoral college and two senators per state situation is through an amendment. But in order to pass an amendment both houses have to pass it and then 3/4 of the states have to approve it. States with smaller populations will not want to change the system that is unfairly balanced in their favor.
2
@Zoned
Even 3/4 of the states can’t amend the constitution to make the Senate proportional. It would require unanimous consent by all 50 states.
In the mid 1990’s I became the youngest, first woman, and first full-term Democratic Supervisor (Mayor) of my upstate New York hometown of 25,000. My community, and its government, had been predominantly Republican for more than 170+ years.
Two years later, we became the very first Democratic majority Town Board …on Christmas Eve…after the election day results were fought – and financed – by Republicans, all the way up through the court system to the NYS Supreme Court.
We won by a single vote. It was agonizing, exhilarating, infuriating, and empowering; it proved without a shadow of a doubt…that indeed, every vote counts.
Our democracy works….if we participate in it, preserve it, and protect it.
To this day I remain the only woman to serve as Supervisor in the town’s almost 200-year history. And through every election cycle I remember there is a depth and breadth and magnitude...of power, potential, and possibility intrinsic in our system of government.
Based on my experiences, I know the price of freedom and the value of a system that seeks to create, generate and sustain freedom. I also know that a true Patriot is not - and never has been - defined by political party.
A true Patriot of this nation, regardless of political or even ideological affiliation, is willing to stand up for - and speak up for – truth and reality, justice and freedom, the greater community...and our shared humanity.
26
@Kelly Grace Smith. Great and moving comment, so glad you wrote it!
2
@cheerful dramatist Thank you...
Not again Florida. It was very traumatic to many Americans when the supreme court handed the presidential election to George W. Bush after the fiasco of Florida. Right away I felt that disasters were going to happen and unfortunately I was right. There was 911 and invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan. To this day America's longest war has not concluded. Many brave US defense personnel laid down their lives and many came back permanently disabled, a half a million or more civilians died and millions other have to leave their bombed out homeland and in the end who benefited? Muqtada and his militia. As for me I took a position overseas to do humanitarian research before George Bush was inaugurated as the 43rd president. My only regret is I did not get to contribute my 2 cents to stop the cruelty of regime change wars by voicing my opposition to the was in whatever possible way a private citizen can do. What is disappointing is that I campaigned for Obama in his presidential bid hoping that he would end the 2 wars that Bush started instead he just doubled down and wars in Syria, Libya and Yemen got added and millions more were brutalized, bombed and forced out of their homes in an epic migration.
I am sure several Floridians are going to feel sad when the final outcome is out. Hope the supreme court does not decide the outcome and the margin of the winner is over 1000 votes after a recount.
27
My parents always said, of the 2000 election here in Palm Bch County, “We think we voted but we’re never sure if our vote actually was counted!” That was thanks to the infamous “hanging chads.”
Well, here we are again! When will the US invest in revamping the mechanics of voting in our elections? Oregon has done it. Why can’t the rest of us?
5
@Penny Dubin Of the 67 Florida counties, Palm Beach County -- home to Trump's Mar-A-Largo Club -- is in the top 10 economically. Why would the Secretary of State (Republicans for more than a decade) let Palm Beach skate with only 4 ballot scanners, incapable of recounting multiple races? That is the 3rd largest county in Florida. The largest county, Miami-Dade was able to run their 9 high-speed ballot scanners non-stop for 73 hours, utilizing 100 staff workers and 200 temp hired workers. Palm Beach needed help! BEFORE the midterms and the Republican state government did nothing to be prepared in Palm County. The other shameful county is Broward, and I have to say, I am very concerned that Brenda Snipes turned in the recount "two minutes" late. That seems deliberate to me, and I would like to know why. They did not even get started until Tuesday morning (instead of Saturday night.) But again, after 4 serious complaints in the past about her inability to lead that county's elections office, Gov. Scott did not replace her for incompetence. If we could clean up those two counties, I believe Florida would be OK for election 2020. Other counties were better organized and had sufficient equipment and completed the task of recount on time.
1
It does not make sense that the Republican dominated legislature refused to provide the funds needed for purchasing a sufficient number of modern voting machines. It also does not make sense to deny some extra time for the recount when machines are outdated and people are overworked. What is the purpose: rig the election or undermine the credibility of the election?
78
@Konrad Gelbke "It does not make sense that the Republican dominated legislature refused to provide the funds needed for purchasing a sufficient number of modern voting machines" Uh huh.. especially when the Democrats are using this excuse as they try to overturn an election. The problem is EVERY county in the state was able to provide election results in compliance with the law EXCEPT Broward County. That's because every county started canvasing mail in votes 15 DAYS before the election, as prescribed by law, EXCEPT Broward. That's because Broward is the most populous county controlled by Democrats and Broward elected a corrupt Democrat to oversee the election. Snipes added 120000 mail-in votes after the polls closed but that's 24% of the total votes cast in one county when the state average was less than 6%. Figure it out.. it had NOTHING to do with old machines
1
@OBANION-Citation please?
2
@OBANION -- Palm Beach County used only four ballot scanners, which could not simultaneously recount the three challenged elections. Then the machines overheated and stopped, and caused a complete inability to have a recount. That was Palm Beach County, which has one of the top-10 economies of the 67 Florida counties. It's home to President Trump's Mar-A-Largo Club etc. It's up to the Secretary of State (Republican for more than a decade) to oversee the elections! Broward County messed up big time due to an incompetent elections supervisor, who actually broke the law in the 2016 election, destroying ballots that were requested in a recount! The job of removing her from office due to incompetence was in the hands of Gov. Rick Scott!! who did nothing!
Mr. Scott: The embarrassment in this situation is not that Florida doesn't yet have final election results. It's that a) Republicans are fighting to overturn the principle of every vote being counted, and b) the fact that in eight years as governor you did nothing to correct long-standing problems in Florida's electoral system.
136
Count every vote. It's a pretty simple concept that forms the bedrock of our democracy
61
@northeastsoccermum
It’s simple if they are legal votes
It seems to me that counting all votes takes precedence over any artificial deadline. The larger, longer-term issue is that of voter suppression. The issue right now, at this moment, is not whether Nelson, Gillum or Abrams can win. The issue is that the principle has to be laid down that all the votes get counted. That's the beginning of getting higher voter participation. The Republicans don't want that. DeSantis, Scott and Kemp could say nice platitude things about counting all votes and very likely still win at this point. Why don't they? Partly not to take chances, but mostly not to establish the principles that voting should be unobstructed and all votes should count. If and when those principles are firmly established in law and practice, and not scrambled for at that last minute, the Republicans are toast and white supremacist politics is over.
46
If it were Nelson leading by 0.15%, would Rick Scott concede “for the good of the state?” Methinks not.
This, after Mr. Scott first claimed fraud. I have to admit though, the man knows of what he speaks, after all, he was the CEO of a hospital chain that was of Medicare fraud in excess of $1 billion. That wasn’t his fault of course, it was the people working for him who deceived him. Sure.
If Scott wins, I think the swamp levels in Florida will rise to new levels.
72
@Ed M
Well said.
I learned of the Hospital Corporation of America by Scott's Republican primary competition during his first run for governor in 2010.
The biggest Medicare fraud case in history up to that time.
Truly incredible that Florida elected him governor.
11
You would think that the Republican candidates, staunch believers in our democratic institutions, processes, and the Constitution, would be solidly behind having *all* the votes counted. Republicans, sure and certain in the rightness of their policy proposals, and governance actions, have real and strong reasons for wanting *every* vote counted, from *every* eligible voter. Confident in the integrity of the electoral process, Republicans will certainly prevail in every election where their candidate stands out as the superior choice, and their policies stand as the preferences of the majority of the citizens of those districts, and the state. So why aren't we hearing loud and clear the clamor from Republican pundits, Republican party leadership, and the Republican candidates themselves the demands that *every* vote be counted, however long it takes. After all, Republicans are certain to 'win on their merits' -- are they not? So... what's this 'fake news' that Republicans are claiming "fraud", and "Democrats are trying to steal the election" is being claimed by Republicans...? That just *can't* be right. Can it?
18
@Jim Brokaw What Republican Party is this? Certainly not the US GOP.
1
If we ever ignore votes in our counts for any reason then we are no longer a democracy.
29
Voting: our most fundamental of rights is being chipped away (like several other rights and laws) bit by bit with ludicrous GOP shenanigans like we've seen demonstrated again this midterm cycle.
It is time to demand that our country establish universal voting by mail (UVBM) before 2020. Phil Keisling, the former Oregon secretary of state who introduced the system, lays out the case in detail here: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/19/opinion/voting-at-home-will-help-save-our-democracy.html
UVBM states save millions of dollars because they don’t need to establish polling places or pay polling staff. Voter turnout is higher, especially among younger, older, poorer, and minority voters.
There’s no need to run two separate election processes, one for in-person votes and another for mail-in absentee votes. Voter rolls are much easier to maintain and verify. Every vote leaves a paper trail. There are no issues with forms of ID, difficulties with access, or opportunities for voter intimidation.
And there have never been any proven cases, or even serious allegations, of substantial voter fraud in UVBM states, mainly because the system renders it almost impossible. Voting by mail is inherently more resistant to wholesale voter fraud.
And of course the Republican Party remains staunchly opposed to UVBM, just as Republicans are opposed to all voting reforms that make voting easier or increase turnout.
29
The votes by mail were a large part of the issue here. They did not “match” with the signatures. Voting in person in this state means that it’s more likely your vote will count.
2
@J I was surprised that even vote-by-mail differs from county to county. In my Democratic Party dominated county, you just have to sign the back of the ballot. But in my mother's county, which is Republican Party dominated, you have to fill in the date and print your name on two lines in the center of the back of the ballot -- and then, also sign your name in a box at the bottom. I'd call that voter suppression. It's more of that "exact-match" GOP tactic that was used to suppress the vote in Georgia.
What is going on with all these tight deadlines?
Unless the State of Florida provides the funding for massive overtime - and some method of validating that those they hire for the recount are honest and unbiased - this is a very difficult task. No reason to compound it with these time limits that have no purpose other than to potentially invalidate some votes merely because there isn't enough manpower or time to count them.
When people vote, it should be counted. Period. No games of 'the signature isn't a perfect match', or there's a missing comma or middle name - contact the voter, if they respond, they can prove who they are and say if it is their ballot. A vote _should_ be regarded as a precious and vital thing, in a democracy.
48
You are so right- and to worry about the signature is a farce. I voted in Palm Beach county, had to pull out my Smart ID license to be given a ballot, and my signature was very likely to not match whatever records they have, because I have a casted broken wrist on my dominant side-- it it was still me who voted, and they had better well count it!
5
They’re doing a fantastic job of disenfranchising voters in anticipation of 2020. Especially in the heavily democratic areas of the state.
My state house district has a *37* vote difference, and did not receive a recount because it was last in line behind the Federal and State level races.
This is not Democracy.
37
A lot of flag waving Americans think we are the greatest country on the planet.
The rest of the first world industrial countries think we are a laughing stock.
I tend to agree with them.
31
When I watched the World Series a few weeks ago I noticed that the umpires weren't members of either team. I'm not a baseball expert, but that seems like a pretty good idea.
The Republicans, who are dedicated to depriving the "wrong kind of people" of their vote, should be ashamed, but they're not capable of it anymore.
28
Stop imposing arbitrary deadlines. Just count the votes. Take the time necessary. Count the votes.
39
@Dystopia
These aren't arbitrary deadlines. They're FL statute on the books since 2005 or earlier.
1
Wrong. They're BOTH in statute and arbitrary. The job is to hold a proper election and count and report the vote honestly and correctly, not to meet deadlines of a few days after the election, when there are thousands and thousands of mail, absentee, and provisional ballots to count.
1
I have to say that if this was happening in Africa or Asia, people in the US (and doubtless that would include #45) would be pouring scorn on the ability of the country to run an election. Time for the US and Florida to take a long hard look at itself
25
Either Florida election officials have negligent in modernizing the state’s voting equipment or this is another variation on Republican voter suppression. I vote (pun intended) for the latter.
13
Antiquated machines, power failures, voter suppression....a true national joke. If we can't even the low hanging fruit figured out how will we ever even hope to tackle difficult problems? Roads crumbling, airports are a disgrace, urban mass transit systems are either non-existent or decrepit. Third world countries have high speed rail. Chemicals in our factory food, guns all over the place, an unparalleled bounty of natural resources treated like garbage dumps. But the rich got their tax cut. At least we got that done.
15
@Scott S. And the one bipartisan effort in Congress was the passage of an additional $100 billion for military spending -- up from $600 billion and approved at $715 billion next year! More than the total spent by all other countries combined! (Maybe that's why all other top 20 nations do not leave their citizens at the mercy of insurance corporations every time they become sick or injured, and why only our country allows 600,000 families go bankrupt every year due to unpaid medical bills.. even though a majority of them had "health care insurance" at the time of their injury/illness.
All votes count.
Count all votes.
14
It is overdue that we give Florida back to Spain after the 2000 election.
Seriously, how have they not learned their lesson? its like their incompetence is on purpose.
8
Knowing that there was a deadline at 3 p.m. the next day, Bucher sent her people home and didn't require them to show up til 10 a.m. Giving them 5 hours to finish counting.
And the republicans are the ones that are to blame here?
10
@Ryan M The Florida Secretary of State (Republican for more than a decade) is in charge of overseeing the elections, including knowing if they have enough equipment and workers. Palm Beach County -- home to Trump's Mar-A-Largo Club -- has one of the top 10 economies of the 67 counties. So why would the Sec. of State allow them to go into this election (and previous ones) with only four ballot scanners, which are too old to handle multiple-race recounts? I don't know... maybe because they are the third largest county and vote 3 to 1 Democrat. In contrast, the largest county is Miami-Dade, which utilized nine high-speed scanners and hired 200 temp workers, to work alongside their staff of 100 workers. It is ultimately the JOB of the (R) Sec. of State to insist that Palm Beach County has enough machines and workers to do the job!
2
Yes, in this case, for the artificial, arbitrary deadlines passed by the GOP legislature.
@Ryan M The Florida Secretary of State (Republican for more than a decade) is in charge of overseeing the elections, including knowing if they have enough equipment and workers. Palm Beach County -- home to Trump's Mar-A-Largo Club -- has one of the top 10 economies of the 67 counties. So why would the Sec. of State allow them to go into this election (and previous ones) with only four ballot scanners, which are too old to handle multiple-race recounts? I don't know... maybe because they are the third largest county and vote 3 to 1 Democrat. In contrast, the largest county is Miami-Dade, which utilized nine high-speed scanners and hired 200 temp workers, to work alongside their staff of 100 workers. It is ultimately the JOB of the (R) Sec. of State to insist that Palm Beach County has enough machines and workers to do the job! It is ALSO the job of the (R) Governor of Florida to dismiss (fire!) election supervisors, who are deemed incompetent. This should have happened after the gross mishandling of the 2016 election by Broward County Elections Supervisor Brenda Snipes, who a judge declared violated the law by burning paper ballots requested for a recount! But again (R) Gov. Scott did nothing about that... maybe because she's incompetent in a 3-1 Democratic-voting county! Just Saying!
Ever since 2000, it seems, Democrats cannot seem to lose an election in stride. Their losing is blamed on Republican electoral putrescence. Let's take presidential elections. In 2000, it was all about recounts and hanging chads. In 2004, it was maliciously programmed voting machines. For some reason, during the presidential elections of 2008 and 2012, Republicans were not wily enough to corrupt those elections. The Democrats were just that good. But then alleged Republican corruption finished its 8-year vacation or its 8-year state of incompetence in effective election tampering, spoiling the legitimacy of the 2016 presidential election. And now it has even found its way in the gubernatorial elections in Georgia and Florida and the election for U.S. Senate in Florida.
I've never seen Republicans do this. Why is the Democrat party the party of sore losers?
10
Mail in only. Circumvent the machines and the polling places. Florida cannot handle this format maybe it’s the heat?
5
I received an avalanche of scaremongering emails from Trump and other Republicans this morning, ranting about the Florida recount. What are they afraid of? Republicans must truly hate democracy, if they are so worried about losing power that they have to resort to scare tactics. Good grief. No wonder nobody under 65 wants to vote for them any more.
32
@Allison
A lot of us over 65 don’t want to vote for them either.
1
I'm so happy I live in a state with nearly universal uniform mail in ballots.
If the Florida legislature wanted a good system, they would have one. They aren't that hard to implement. Which has me thinking all this chaos is by design...
"They" don't have to rig the entire system. "They" just have to rig key parts of it. And Florida is pretty key...
Now, where's my tin-foil hat?
11
“There is no constitutional right to have your vote counted a second time or a third time.”
Well, it is a single election, and the need to verify those votes counted so as to identify and quantify those votes not counted. That is not voting more than once, it is verifying that a not-counted vote was restored to recognition.
And golly gee willikers, those who weren't counted because they were excluded by error, does the constitution provide that it is constitutionally OK to not count them even once? In the Republican world evidently, I guess "yes," (in just about every state we are seeing, look at all of the contested elections...same claim).
As long as they are not Republican votes, because we know that only Republican votes are votes that the constitution means when it says citizens or peers. If they had meant monkeys and Native Americans, the constitution would have said "monkeys (quoting Mr. de Santis) and Native Americans." Same for whole counties that don't vote all Republican...they just aren't peers entitled to vote, by definition.
But we digress even there. A vote is only counted once...after that, it is simple verification, not a new count, but a verification of the only vote. Slick argument by Mr. Jazeel to recast the only vote as possible to be multiple votes. I wonder if anyone noticed? Pretty smart.
101
@marek pyka
There is no constitutional right to vote. Voting rights qualifications are state matters. Within the limits of not denying voting based upon color aka race and sex.
3
@marek pyka
When there were voting irregularities in the last Austrian presidential election in 2016, they held an actual “do-over” of the election. That’s right, they did the whole darn thing over again.
It was expensive and the propaganda machine worked overtime to kill it, but in the end, the Green Party candidate Alexander Van der Bellen won over the ex-Nazi Norbert Hofer.
If it can happen in Austria, tell me why it can’t happen in the US?
Could it be that the Confederate apparatus is still too strong in Florida? Or that the votes are rigged to ensure Florida “swings” to the GOP?
1
Great reporting by all. It provides good insight into the election mess in Florida. A long quote from the article reveals some of the problems:
"One reason for Palm Beach’s delay was that its tabulation machines overheated earlier this week, creating the need to count nearly 200,000 votes again. An additional problem surfaced later, according to the Palm Beach County elections supervisor, Susan Bucher: After the mechanical failure was corrected and the machines were restarted, they apparently failed to tabulate entire boxes of votes — the totals now do not add up, Ms. Bucher said.
"Ms. Bucher would not say exactly how many boxes of ballots were missing from the count.
“'A little bit more than a dozen precincts lost substantial numbers,' she said."
Yep, Florida is a mess. Scott was the governor of that mess.
41
Why the hurry. The winners cannot effectively begin until January. So let the count continue until every vote is accounted for. When the machines do not work, get better machines. If the process is unclear, unwieldy, unwise, develop a better system of voting. Not like this is all new, people. Elections come up yearly. And, most important, vote for every election at the local, state and federal level. Without some balance in governance, you cannot get work done well.
25
Because the arbitrary deadlines that never anticipated multiple recounts are statutorily mandated. And as long as the Republicans stay in power, they’ll have no desire to change that.
5
Every vote should be counted. We do not have a legitimate democracy if that is not done. If my vote isn't counted, why should I vote? The Republicans want to make people think that their vote doesn't matter so next time they won't bother to vote.
If the machines are antiquated, then get new machines. If the people in charge are incompetent, fire them all. But give them enough time to count all the votes and do whatever it takes to get signatures verified, or whatever has to be done.
52
@sfdphd
Deadlines serve a purpose, should we give all races across the US additional time to discover votes. Voting is not complicated, inept people and lawyers make it more complicated. No system will be perfect.
5
@sfdphd Rick Scott, as governor, turned down the Palm Beach request for new voting machines. I guess he wasn't interested in an accurate and timely recount, maybe knew his chances were slim without a little (lack of) help.
13
Agreed! Shame on Rick Scott and the Republicans for attempting to disenfranchise their fellow citizens.
4
The basic tenet should be that, if ballots are not counted because of something done (or not done) by county officials responsible for conducting the election, then time should be extended to ensure that those voters are not disenfranchised, through no fault of their own. So, if voters whose signatures were deemed not to "match" received notices of the invalidation of their signatures late, they should be given at least as much time from the date of receipt of that notice to address the "discrepancy" as they would have gotten had they received the notices when they should have. Similarly, if Palm Beach County missed the deadline for the machine recount because their machines overheated or are antiquated, the deadline should be extended to ensure all votes cast are counted. Palm Beach County's failure to invest in equipment should not result in the disenfranchisement of innocent voters.
85
I'm Canadian. We have a different system of government - parliamentary rather than separated executive and legislative branches - and our federal elections are held separately from provincial elections. This makes our process inherently simpler than yours.
Nonetheless, the needless complexities and delays that repeatedly crop up in the simple counting of votes in the US utterly baffle me. Gerrymandering, mass disenfranchisement due to non-existent, so-called "voter fraud", the broken Electoral College, and a corrupted system of campaign finance further compounds the apparent degradation of American democracy.
In Canada, voters pencil in an "x" on a paper ballot. These are easily counted (by human beings observed by party scrutineers, not programmable machines), the results are known quickly and almost never contested. Constituency boundaries are drawn objectively by a non-partisan body. Voter registration is simple, straightforward and not identified by party. Campaigns are brief, mostly financed publicly, and private contributions to parties and individual candidates are strictly limited. Union and corporate donations are banned.
All of this is common sense, not rocket science. America calls itself the world's greatest democracy, but has a broken system that appears to serve the interests of a cynical, entitled minority rather than the people as a whole.
220
The fact that you have 1/10 of our population probably plays a large role in why manual ballot counting is feasible.
4
@J
If we have 10x the population, then not only do we have 10x the voters, but we also have 10x the person-power to count the votes. It's a matter of proportions, not absolute numbers.
The US could easily do it as well as Canada, if only we had the will to do so (and were willing to commit the necessary funds to either pay people or buy decent machines for every precinct).
The problem is that, as is typical for America, we self-congratulate ourselves about our putative "exceptionalism," but are unwilling to back it up with true action and/or the necessary financial support.
Of course, there are many politicians who don't believe in spending money to do thingts correctly and fairly (i.e. mostly Republicans). Funnily enough (?), they usually seem to be the ones who benefit from undercounting of votes and imposing arbitrary deadlines to stop the counting.
If America has 10x the population of Canada, then we also have 10x the people-power and 10x the financial resources. We claim to be the leader of creative invention and technological ingenuity in the world. Taken together, surely we should be able to figure out how to run and tally an election fairly.
25
@J
We would only need to have 10x as many counters. I do not see where population has anything to do with it.
One party does not want anything like a democracy and they have the ability - as of now - to gerrymander, make voting difficult, purge rolls and anything else they can do to win.
16
College, high school and elementary students all across the United States can take standardized tests with a #2 pencil, have them automatically and accurately tabulated every time. Their results are securely held and the results sent to their homes.
This sort of futuristic sci-fi technology continues to elude the people who run our elections.
52
@John T.
It's easier to finagle the vote if it's more complicated.
6
@John T.
Actually individual teachers and even entire school systems tamper with these tests to generate phony results. Scandal after scandal just of the ones who get caught. Far less at stake there than national power.
I cannot think of any good reason for not ensuring that every vote is counted. It is disconcerting to read about Republican Party lawyers filing motions in courts to prevent votes from being counted.
If there is a question or concern about a ballot, a signature, or any other issues, it would good to take the actions and time needed to ensure that the vote is counted - for every ballot, every vote.
Someone is going to make a lot of money “advising” Florida on how to improve their voting system. I suspect, though, that we won’t see a good, permanent solution for a long time.
16
In my country Elections Canada oversees a national election with national standards and paper ballots counted by hand. An independent and impartial electoral boundaries commission is in charge of drawing up the boundaries of each individual riding after every census. As long as individual states are in charge of the electoral process this will be a regular occurrence in American elections. Especially when you have one party committed to disenfranchising voters and suppressing the vote. What happened in Georgia is an embarrassment. The result needs to be tossed out with a new election overseen by international election monitors. North Dakota disenfranchised native American voters. The GOP doesn't even pretend to care about democracy. What I don't understand is why Americans are not outraged about it.
31
@tk
The U.S. is having it’s own census issues at the moment. Nothing is simple here. Sometimes it takes a village, but even that won’t help.
1
@tk
"What I don't understand is why Americans are not outraged about it."
Dear tk: Many of us ARE outraged about it!
Unfortunately, about 35% are The Deplorables (so Hillary Clinton aptly described) who care more about tribalistic "winning" than the overall welfare of our country. Another 30% are low-info voters, who might be outraged if they cared to learn about what is going on in our country; but for some reason, they can't be bothered.
That leaves only about 35% of us who are actually informed by true facts, and who actually care enough to be outraged.
35% isn't enough to overcome the inertai of the other 65%, no matter how outraged we are.
Of course, our "leadership" (i.e. Congress and the President) would be able to understand the reasons for our outrage, take it to heart, and take actions to address the failures of our system. But for "some reason," they don't seem to care. (And we all know that the reason for this is that Reoublicans don't care about truth and fairness; they only care about their side "winning," no matter the cost to our country.)
So, please know that there are plenty of us down here who DO care and ARE outraged. Unfortunately, the deck is stacked against us (until we can get the Republicans out of power).
1
If Desantis actually said that the results were clear and ambiguous, he'd be correct!
12
I vote mostly Democrat, but count every vote and let the chips fall where they may. As an American I can accept that.
18
When does the election end?
Withdrawing provisional, mail-in and early ballots due to signature mismatches, without verification from the registered voter, is bogus.
Over the many years of signing documents, checks, credit card statements, absentee notes for children, etc. etc., my signature changed dramatically.
The resemblance between the 18 year old me and the current me has changed. Why would the same not apply to my signature?
20
It is really rich that Rick Scott is criticizing the embarrassment that the recount is causing the State of Florida.He is in charge of elections and by all appearances has done a terrible job.In 2000 Florida had a monumental problem counting ballots and yet 18 years later they are still facing the same problems.They come up with the most improbable excuses involving matched signatures and voting machines that overheat.It would be laughable if it weren't so serious.They are having fun in the sun in Florida but need to respect their citizens.They need to develop a reliable voting system NOW!
20
So the state of FL is going to spend millions of dollars to satisfy the curiousity of Nelson and his lawyer Elias about the undercount, even though there is no mathematical probability that he can win. Nice.
10
Baloney. The gap is very likely going to come in below the threshold for an automatic HAND recount. This isn't about 'curiiosity,' it's about due process and equal protection of the laws -- you know, like in the Constitution. COUNT THE VOTES.
10
Please stop with the hand-wringing over another, and another, stolen election. Florida, I’m talking to you. As if a well-run and valid election with legitimate results was ever even possible. It wasn’t. These elections are built and run as mechanisms for fraud. They are structured so that the GOP can manipulate and mold the result that they want: 51/49 what a shock. The GOP is not about to trust their hold on power to the electorate. And these master plans have been in the works for decades. While we may be extremely disappointed by the direction that they’re taking us, let’s not compound it by being naive. /s/ The Chicago Cynic
20
One thing that might alliatee the problems some states have is to have 100% mail-in ballots. Oregon does that and, it seems, that there is not much of a problem.
9
Time to stop using signatures for ID, as most of us have devolved to a scribbled handwriting that even we have trouble reading.
Just go to a system where we choose, or are given, a six digit code to put on our ballots, next to our name, and a compute can read it.
And of course, go to Oregon's system of vote by mail for both federal and local elections.
Cheaper, safer, no voter suppression.
Hugh Massengill, Eugene Oregon
16
Perhaps someone could mention to Gov. Scott that USA and FL elections are not decided by consessions, they are decided by vote counts. It's the law. Even in Bush v. Gore the Court ruled the votes must all be counted. (But also ruled that in that 2000 December there was not time, so that case cannot be precedent.)
4
What is the matter with America? Are its high-tech gurus too busy greedily raking in the big bucks to develop voting machines that actually work? I can't say it any better than the Judge Walker: “We have been the laughingstock of the world election after election; yet, we still chose not to fix it.”
To quote T.S.Eliot, from "The Hollow Men":
"This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a whimper."
9
As long as Florida has GOP governors, they’ll have dysfunctional elections, and as long as they have dysfunctional elections, the GOP will stay in power.
64
Counting all the voters votes should be far more important than an arbitrary deadline. An extra week won't hurt the candidates, but will hurt the voters whose votes are discarded.
24
Simple question: Why do we have such tight deadlines for recounts? And who decided on these deadlines?
I understand that we want recounts done in a reasonable time frame but with ancient machines that overheat and break down, what's the point in forcing a deadline that everyone knows rushes the recount and, as in this case, means that not every vote gets counted?
21
Exactly. Ridiculous, artificial deadlines are created by partisan legislatures that don't want the votes counted honestly and correctly.
I was blessed to live and work as a journalist in Fort Lauderdale during the 2000 "hanging chad" election drama. To paraphrase the great Hunter S. Thompson, there was shouting and vulgarity approaching "hand to hand combat" with adults behaving like street gangs. Nothing was more fun that to watch the debacle, particularly with a cocktail in hand.
You kinda have to be immersed in the craziness of South Florida to appreciate the drama and humor. I defer to the insights of Carl Hiaasen, the unchallenged observer of Sunshine State craziness and urge American's of all persuasions to watch for his words of wit. Come on Carl, the free world needs a few laughs.
4
Yeah it was hysterical. So funny that it lead to a president who took us to war. I’m sure all those who died in Iraq are rolling in their graves with laughter and a cocktail
1
GOP has won by weak voting system and by cheating; and so they had no intention to fix even thought they were in charge for last 8 years.
This should be enough of example that even after 2000 debacle, Florida lags into voting system(want to quantify that - not voting fraud as GOP claims) because of GOP purpose to keep it that way.
Georgia is another example; where Kemp is running election system for 8 years and he is the one who complains of fraud.
Who wants GOP in charge?
13
Forget about Russia meddling with our elections. Seems to me we are doing a pretty efficient job of mucking things up on our own. It is incomprehensible how inefficient our voting process is. Instead of making it a painless exercise we do everything to discourage people from participating. We reduce early voting periods, eliminate polling precincts, produce confusing, even illegible ballots, force people to stand in long lines, use antiquated ballot machines, and hold elections on a work day. We deserve better.
9
The one thing Scott has shown this country is that he does not have the integrity for this job, nor a commitment to the people of the United States which means he will be bigly supported by trump.
16
In Australia we have a non-partisan Electoral Commission that is completely and independently in charge of all elections. We seriously don't understand your approach to democracy when you have candidates in charge of counting the vote, voter suppression methods and the craziest range of voting systems we've ever heard of. One man one vote. I thought that's supposed to be how democracy works.
11
@BKnorr
The 50 States in America are Sovereign political entities and can do things as they wish.
2
@Alan Klein
Perhaps Alan, for some items it's time to change that.
@Rod Sheridan
We'd have to do away with the Electoral system, two senators from each state, etc. We'd even have to do away with a Federal system where each state is sovereign.
Even in the United NAtions, each country has one vote regardless of it's size geographically or by population. It's the same with the each of the various States in America. It's why we're called the United States of America and not just America. Thusly we have two senators from each state.
After all is said and done, Scott will be Senator for the same reason that Bush became President in 2001, with all the negative implications that involved, because Broward County election officials can’t figure out how to design a ballot.
12
You would think after the catastrophe of the 2000 election, which may put the wrong man in the White House, that Florida election officials would have funded and installed a fool proof modern voter tabulation system that would never allow anything like this to happen again. But know, the sheer incompetence is breath taking. I would consider firing most of the supervisors responsible for this fiasco. Otherwise, one would think that even with these malfunctions the apparent leaders in the vote count on election night should be the final winners because in point of fact, a reversal of such magnitude would be without historical precedent. So what we have is a political circus that had no bearing on the material interests of the electorate other than the necessity to make sure this doesn't happen again. I challenge Florida to see if this does happen again in 2020.
3
Whart's preventing Palm Beach County from borrowing another county's machines in one way or another to increase their capacity for processing ballots?
4
The other counties are using theirs to do their counts and recounts at the same time, to meet the same deadlines? A better approach is to be sure the counties have the resources they need to run an election according to the artificial deadlines established by the legislature. But the GOP running Florida has no interest in adequately providing for efficient and inclusive elections in D counties.
3
@John D., and poor lil PALM BEACH has no interest in spending money so votes count in their county.
2
The constitution gives the states' the responsibility and control over all elections. The only way this gets fixed is if the voters in every state get sick of underfunded registrars, antique machines, bad ballot design, badly drawn and gerrymandered districts, and questionable laws and regulations.
We the People need to call our state and local governments to account in a bi-partisan manner befitting citizens. We can't wait for Congress to fix that with which it doesn't have the constitutional mandate to interfere.
2
Republicans, under the brother of their candidate, stole the presidential election in Florida and thus nationwide, with the help of the Supreme Court. This emboldened them to steal a Supreme Court seat in 2016.
Now they are trying to steal a Senate seat in Fla, which they will probably win anyway. If they can't win, they steal. Even if they are likely to win, they try to steal.
Meanwhile, they have stolen numerous House, Senate and State elections by gerrymandering and disenfranchisement.
We are a big majority, but they rule. And the way the electoral college and the Senate are set up in the Constitution, I do not see any valid way to change it.
And now the Supreme court (because of the stolen seat) has become Republican for probably 30 years or more.
The United States, a Republic, resembled a democracy for a little more than 200 years. But in the 21st century, urbanization (and cheating) have reached the point that we are no longer a democracy. The cities and suburbs are governed by rural areas and small towns near them. The North is ruled by the South, after winning the Civil War.
The writers of the Constitution didn't anticipate this. Perhaps they did create this imbalance to protect slavery. That is why we fought the Civil War and passed the 14th and 15th amendments.
19
I'd like to know why Broward county has antiquated equipment - is that another deliberate disenfranchisement of voters attempt?
And what does the GOP have against taking into account extenuating circumstances, anyways?
It really makes it seem like the GOP wants to win at any cost, no matter if it is dishonest or unethical.
15
@MS
Palm Beach County, not Broward County, has antiquated equipment. Broward County simply has an incompetent Supervisor of Elections.
I can't speak for other states, but here in Florida, each county purchases its own voting machines. So, despite the desire of Times readers to blame Governor Scott for the current comedy of errors, the fault really does lie with each county's choices of voting systems and ballot designs.
1
@Thomas A. Hall Thanks for the information and correction.
...what that really says to me is that we need consistent and secure systems not just across states, but across the country. If, of course, we want a level playing field when it comes to counting votes.
While it is easy to blame the individual counties, it is still a choice to refuse to count votes due to extenuating circumstances such as storms and antiquated equipment.
I really want to see the country counting and respecting votes equitably instead of playing games. Otherwise our ethics are no better than 9-year-olds cheating at Monopoly, and our representation is no better than whomever was able to trample on someone else's rights.
South Florida was not helpful for Senator Nelson. Many stayed home in progressive Miami Dade and Broward as one columnist for the Sun Sentinel said they were probable watching tv at home. It also could be a combination of poor ballot design. Many voted for the Governors but did not vote for the Senators. This is perhaps typical Floridian.
4
Signature validity belongs to forensic science. Local election officials do not have the expertise. Rub a ballpoint pen or lipstick on the right thumb and make imprint on the absentee ballot appears intelligible.
6
There are countries that are euphemistically referred to as "third world" that run elections exponentially better than we do. The way we hold elections in this country is a disgrace. Waiting in lines for hours. Voter suppression of ethnic minorities. Disorganized vote tallies. It is laughable to think that this country loves to sing the praises of democracy abroad when it's so bad at it at home.
13
We’re supposed to be the “cutting-edge” United States, for goodness sake! Why can’t we avoid all this nonsensical drama by having on-line voting and no—repeat—no machines except for those who are computer illiterate or computer can’t afford one?
Republicans have gamed the election process forever. They are funded by dark money and oligarchs who would sooner see us out on the streets, snaking around buildings, begging for crusty bread and a dirty bowl of gruel.
It doesn’t have to be this way, like it was 18 years ago. And why is it Florida? Again? What’s Rick Scott afraid of?
4
NYT should find out and report exactly why Palm Beach has lousy, nonfunctional equipment. I'm surprised that such an obvious question wasn't asked or reported. Who's responsible?
Otherwise, here we have just more nauseating Republican efforts to interfere with elections. Just let the people vote, and count and report the votes honestly. Why is this so impossible to accomplish in this "exceptional" country? (Answer to rhetorical question: Because the GOP would only rarely win another statewide or national election if they let it happen.)
3
Scott should still be in jail from his previous career in the "health-care" industry. The GOP run Florida and have no interest in bringing vote counting machinery into the 21st century.
The ballot in Broward rivals the butterfly ballot of 2000.
11
@rocky Vermont I never thought of that, yes he should be in jail, along with all those bankers who caused the crash. And those on the supreme court to denied Gore the presidency. Ah but the rich are different than you and I, we go to jail for crimes we commit and they get richer.
One good thing to come from climate change might be the complete disappearance of Florida from the map. Their handling of voting is a disgrace. They should not be allowed to vote after they are expelled from the US.
In the meantime a total boycott of Florida is indicated. They must suffer a grievous economic punishment
Millions of people were killed, injured or displaced because of the 2000 election resulting in Supreme Court picking Bush.
The Middle Eastern slaughter and displacement continue.
All the blame rests on Florida. May it cease to exist. It is incapable of redeeming itself.
9
Did Mr Scott really say, “clear and ambiguous, just as they were on election night” ? "Clear" and "ambiguous" are mutually exclusive...
4
You're right! But it's attributed to DeSantis. That's a riot, I read right past it without noticing, had to go back and check.
I've lived in Republican-gerrymandered US House Ohio District 12 for a long time now, a district that used to be quite competitive. So my opinion of Republicans is well south of zero: elected Republicans (as opposed to citizen Republicans) tend overwhelmingly to cheat, lie and make it hard for votes for the opposition to count or be counted--anything is good, so long as it benefits the GOP and you can get away with it. Is that how you make American "great"?!
And on top of that, Scott, Trump and their amplifiers (talk radio, Fox, Drudge ..) go on screaming bloody murder about fraud that they have no evidence for. When you declare, without knowing of any evidence for it, that something is so, that's lying. Rick Scott should be ashamed of his repeated lying about "fraud". If that's what it takes to be a Republican today, quit the rotten party. In the ballot booth, lots of Americans are doing so. God bless us, ev'ry one.
13
The republican narrative parroted by SO MANY pundits on media has been that it has NOT been a blue wave.
We are up to 35+ Dem gains in the house so far.
Even with republicans demanding 37 pieces of new ID, gerrymandering, voter suppression. false information, lies and so on, Democrats are on a path to turn America blue.
Florida is no exception.
12
Do you want every vote to be counted? Do you want an honest count? Time to bring the Count from Sesame Street.
7
In a democracy, after an election is held every effort should be made to count the votes of the demos, the people. There is no reason consistent with democratic values to reject a ballot when the voter’s intention is unclear as long as that voter is alive and can be contacted to register his/her intention. The same logic should apply to ballots that erroneously lack voter signatures but can be corrected or otherwise verified as authentic. Our election laws should reflect this inclusive, pro-democracy philosophy.
137
@Howard Gregory
In a divided limited power constitutional republic of united states like ours what a democracy does or does not do is not relevant. Voting rights and qualifications are determined by 50 separate and equal sovereign states.
America is not nor was it ever meant to be a democracy. America is and was always intended to be a republic. America is not Classical Ancient Athens nor modern parliamentary United Kingdom.
The next time you are pretending to be a patriot by rising and singing the national anthem and saluting the flag at sporting events you should keep you r seat and read the Constitution or recite the Pledge of Allegiance to our republic.
3
@Blackmamba
Democracy is a fairly general term - from the Greek demos (people) and kratia (power). A republic is one type of representative democracy.
4
@Blackmamba we are not a constitutional republic. We are a Constitutional Democratic Republic. We are a blend of both a Democracy and a Republican Government Model. We have a representative democracy meaning that the people to not vote on laws to pass by direct majority. We are set up to run under a Federal Constitution that is to be limited with State Constitutions. The plan was for a limited federal government and large state governments. We obviously are getting away from what our forefathers wanted and learned from the American Revolution. History is very important.
1
I live in Chicago. We pay a lot of taxes.
You know what? We lead the country in safe, secure polling technology. We have tremendous libraries. There is no end of free cultural activities around town. Considering how bad our weather is, our roads get fixed in a relatively timely manner.
We are not without our (well documented) problems, and we need to solve our pension and fiscal challenges, but when I see how things roll in states like Florida, the allure of low taxes dissipates.
74
@Tsippi Chicago also ios a leader in gun violence. Perhaps those taxes need to be put to use, no?
3
@Tsippi
Likewise California. We do pay through the nose, but I can walk across the street to my polling place, give them my address and name, sign the register, and vote. It gets counted without any scandals every election since 1963 and counting. Perhaps you do get what you pay for, or maybe it's only in blue states?
25
Let's hope there are plenty of observers there. Florida has been untrustworthy for decades and the soon to be former governor has had plenty of ill-will and ill-intent.
Both the gubernatorial and Senate votes should be recounted as the official in charge of the state is also one of the candidates in this election.
Whomever leads the Democrats in Congress, let's hope they won't triangulate away the budget for election security as was done in this year's budget. We learned that in Georgia, for example, not all available machines were put into service. One of the things that must be passed is a budget that accounts for all of the older, broken down voting machines around the states, and not only the threat of hacking from Russia.
Republicans are trying hard, wherever they have control, to keep the public from the ballot box. We must not only be vigilant, but also support organizations like the ACLU so they can step in and fight alongside the politicians running in races in which results are in contention.
President Jimmy Carter has shown the world how to run elections. Now, we need him to teach us how to get back to fairness.
Tough times ahead, if we are to regain control and reestablish democracy.
---
www.rimaregas.com
84
@Rima Regas FL goes out of its way to publicize, print and mail sample ballots to all registered voters. Early voting precincts are open at least two weeks prior to Election Day. There is no excuse for any citizen not to vote.
For all of those ballots who showed under or over votes... too bad. We’ll never know their intent, but I’m sure most under voting for the candidates was due to non-support for either . The Incompetence of the election officials is a sham and shame for the citizens of our state.
4
@Rima Regas
The cost of collecting and tabulating votes is a local and state issue, not a federal responsibility.
After the 2000 Florida debacle in Democrat controlled voting districts, the Republican Congress did provide one-time funding to modernize voting, and Florida got more than their fair share of the federal money.
After SCOTUS ruled 7-2 in 2000 that the Florida Supreme Court had violated Florida law by changing the recount process, the Florida legislature passed bills that defined exactly how any recount would be conducted. Democrats in Florida are now complaining that because four Democrat counties are incompetent, unwilling or unable to comply with Florida law, that they should get different rules and a do-over.
It is interesting that the three or four districts in Florida that can't seem to figure out what to do are all governed by Democrats and at least one, Miami, has in excess of $1 million in unexpended budget for equipment upgrades.
The recount for governor is over, and the Republican won, even though there are some outstanding absentee ballots that may be added to the tally, because even if all the ballots are for the Democrat, it isn't a large enough number to drop below the 0.25% threshold to require a manual recount.
There is no federal interest in using federal taxpayer money to subsidize incompetent Democrat operators.
In GA, the Republican got a majority, and the losing Dem wants a runoff. Having lost the election, she wants a do-over.
5
@ebmem-Broward County has reported about 25,000 fewer votes cast for Senate than for governor, a difference of about 3.7 percent. That means voters left their Senate choice blank, or the choice was not counted because of a tabulation error like an equipment problem. This is highly unusual...
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/09/upshot/florida-senate-race-broward-undercount.html
https://www.yahoo.com/news/florida-really-screwed-election-recount-explained-051140550--election.html
1
Yesterday and today, we volunteers were trained to be observers in the Palm Beach County manual recount. We waited today to find out we are 'on the job' tomorrow. We will observe any over or undervote that had an intention for voting for qualifying marks that the machines did not read and make decisions with other lawyers and judges around if a decision cannot be made at the counting tables. Meanwhile we need to change the rules about signature problems that triggered provisional voting or no voting. We need better machines that do not overheat and break down and that can read more than one election at a time. It sounds like we are in a county that needs help to make our democracy work again, like so many counties!
127
@Phantom-Thank you and other workers and volunteers. It's a huge and serious endeavor; that all votes get counted.
3
If this were a true representative democracy, where all persons over 18 were allowed to vote, where voting were facilitated rather than suppressed, where gerrymandering was not allowed, where the number of representatives represented the same number of people (both California and Wyoming have 2 Senators apiece, despite California having 68 times the number of people), where voting machines worked, and where votes for president were direct rather than through the electoral college- then all three branches of government would have a Democratic majority. I include the Supreme Court, as all appointments in the last 25 years would be by Democratic presidents with a Democratic Senate.
George W. Bush would not have been elected president, and Al Gore would have run for his second term.
No wonder the Republicans don't believe in democracy. They would be out of jobs.
496
@Peter Wolf
And yet pundits continue saying this is a center right country based on election results. They look at who won the various seats rather than how many voted for each party. Rural areas are losing population because of economic necessity as people leave for urban areas and jobs. City life has a way of making you more tolerant of others and changing your point of view to a less conservative one.
115
@Carole Nicholson
Very good points, with which I totally agree. However, for the foreseeable future, the Senate issue can't be solved, perhaps slightly less but still a long time to get rid of the distortions from the electoral college. Gerrymandering elimination/reduction may be a a little quicker, but requires Democratic wins within red states.
For now, Democrats will have to accept that they have to do a lot better than Republicans in terms of votes to even get equal representation.
36
@Peter Wolf - “where the number of representatives represented the same number of people (both California and Wyoming have 2 Senators apiece, despite California having 68 times the number of people),”
Google “House of Representatives.”
6
I can't understand why there are such tight limits to get an accurate count of votes. Especially, since whoever wins will not take over for over a month. There is no need to rush, nor will the country go into chaos because we have to wait a week or so before knowing the results. For a supposed democratic country, we have a surprising amount of inhibiting regulations.
516
@Frank Casa Frank, are we a functional democracy - I don’t think so. Americans are neither informed enough nor do we care enough about the long time fate of our country. We are not who we were. We’re great at sports, we excell at weapons manufacturing and we’re good at starting wars. But caring for ourselves only personally not community.
30
It's been 9 days since the election, there is a campaign & a finality to it. Get the results timely.
@Ken Wood
Exactly. We are good at "me" but we fail miserably at "us".
All of our myths that we feel made us great are killing us now.
Rugged individualism, self determination, "go west young man", etc.
These myths worked well when we had no idea how large the country was or how many resources there were to plunder.
Now we have 350 million people living in fixed borders with a global economy.
We can't solve our problems until we realize that we are citizens, not competitors.
11
Don't fall for Scott's bullying attempts to steal this election, Sen. Nelson.
313
The election was nine (9), days ago the state of Florida should have the accurate results.
@David-There's "shoulds" and then there's reality. Why rush? Why not count all the votes?
5
I volunteer to organize a GoFundMe campaign to buy new vote tabulation machines for Palm Beach and Broward Counties. It appears county, state and federal governments are unable or unwilling to discharge their most important legal/constitutional duty: ensuring competent, transparent elections. Voting access and integrity should be Job 1 for all responsible government agencies.
119
That's why I strongly believe Florida should be expelled from the US. Even if it requires s constitutional amendment.
3
@Julie B
But do we have a “responsive government” if it’s in Republican hands? I think not.
1
Does this demonstrate to voters in Florida that their vote may not count? What about service members stationed overseas, or college students living out of state -- doesn't their mail in ballots count? This is a disgrace, and has made voting in Florida a big joke.
170
65 counties had their results in, only 2 outlier counties did not.
4
@David
Both Democratic-run counties.
1
I dont know if the Florida Governor is aware of the law , and he has had more experience with "law" than most ..as in breaking it ...But if the difference is less than a given %..automatic recount ... If the difference is less than a given % , hand recount . Nothing to it really . Why try and rile the voters by calling it fraud ? Careless, at the very least !
106
@paul
The Florida governor's race is settled. The initial difference was less than 0.5%, so a mandatory machine recount was conducted. If the machine recount had resulted in the difference being less than 0.25%, a hand count would have been required. The machine recount resulted in 0.41% vote in favor of the Republican and so is a done deal. [There are some uncounted mail in votes that were rejected, and the voters have until Saturday to go to the registrar of voters to add them to the official tally. But even if every one of them is for the Democrat, there aren't enough to drop the difference below the 0.25% that would trigger a mandatory recount.]
The Senate difference after the machine recount is 0.15%, and the hand recount is underway.
The situation is similar in Georgia. The Republican got 50.5% of the vote and the Democrat got 48.5%, with third parties getting the balance. Democrats are attempting to claim there are enough uncounted Dem votes to reduce the Republican to below 50% which would result in a runoff between the top two. The Democrat dark money is prepared to funnel millions in out of state money to buy the election if they get a do over. And they have nothing to lose but money, because they could pull off a victory with enough money.
Dems in both states are alleging voter suppression.
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@paul
He's acting Presidential.
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"One reason for Palm Beach’s delay was that its tabulation machines overheated earlier this week, creating the need to count nearly 200,000 votes again. An additional problem surfaced later..." ... and on and on.
America leads the world in computer technology and promoting democracy. Interesting how there can be so many problems with the simple task of counting every vote.
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How country with corrupted / limited democracy be the leader ?
Or how the country using the oldest and most outdated constitution be the leader.
Thats like being proud user of windows first generation in 2018. No logic here
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@Rebecca
It's also interesting that it is only in counties where Democrats are in charge that are having a problem.
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@Rebecca-I say this with no joy but it does appear that the US no longer leads in either anymore...
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Says the man who stole $1.6B from Medicare. A real Republican hero. Steal from the poor to pay the rich.
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@Ray
He did not steal from Medicare.The rules for charging Medicare by the Hospitals is confusing and open to interpretations.If he stole from the government trust me he would be tried in court and gone to jail.
@Ray Amazing isn't Ray. One looks at the politicians Florida comes up with, the utter disaster the 2000 steal was and the ongoing anti democratic nonsense that seems to be in the DNA of both the citizens and the very ground they walk on in Florida. Soon enough they'll all need life jackets.
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"A flurry of lawsuits", I do believe the correct collective is "a slime of lawsuits".
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Well, this is what happens when you don't have state income tax, I guess. My car nearly disappeared in the highway craters between Ft. Lauderdale and Miami. And, now the vaunted tax free paradise is once again sinking the stability of the United States political system. What on earth? Can you folks invest in some 21st century technology?
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The problem could be ascribed to general mismanagement at the state or county levels. To my knowledge, none of the other income-tax-free states, including my own current state of Washington, have had problems with counting their ballots.
Somehow, Florida always manages to be a special case.
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You know that US is still using 17 century banking ( checks ) so before reaching 21 century , a lot of job to do
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@bstar
Strange. I had no problem with the roads between St. Petersburg and Fort Myers. But then again, those are Republican counties where they do a better job of running the government.
The four counties that can't accurately count the votes are all Democrat ruled. Hmm. You now inform us that their roads are also in bad shape.
Sounds a lot like Baltimore, which has 75 year old bridges that are carrying three to four times their design traffic. Maryland is begging the federal taxpayer to build them new ones. Doesn't Maryland have an income tax?
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It would be so delicious in every way if the recount resulted in Scott's defeat, not least because of the way he puffed himself up in the senate chamber yesterday like something befitting the Macy parade. What a disgrace he is to the people of Florida.
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Of COURSE Rick Scott wants Bill Nelson to concede. Otherwise, what was the point of his cheating and purging voter rolls for 8 years if it doesn't yield him and his fellow ReTrumplican, DeSantis a win?
Remember: Scott's ALWAYS been a cheater--that's why he took the 5th 75 times when his company was charged with persistent MediCare fraud. Scott claimed he knew nothing about it, but he was and is a control freak and NOTHING like that could happen in HIS company without him knowing and approving it.
So he KNOWS he's a cheat, and, following his fellow cheat, Trump, he's calling the OTHER guy a cheat first. It goes back to a certain Minister of Propaganda who said always accuse your opponent of doing what you're doing.
Rick Scott doesn't want people to vote--that's why he works so hard to take their right away. And he doesn't want the votes counted, either.
I hope Bill Nelson NEVER concedes!
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@Dadof2-Don't forget Scott also had references to climate change removed from state websites and directed employees to stop talking about it.
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@Dadof2
If Rick Scott has truly "cheated," why aren't we hearing Pelosi and Schumer shouting about this at the top of their lungs? Pelosi wants to remain as leader of the House, but this is yet another example of her complacency. For two years, Pelosi and Schumer have been weak and ineffective because they lack a bold voice.
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This has been going on for a while. After the 2000 election it was clear that Florida voting standards were inadequate. Jimmy Carter stated at the time that the Carter Center (which monitors elections in emerging democracies) would have refused to oversee that election because it doesn't meet their minimum standards for a fair election. I think Georgia might be worse. The US Constitution allows considerable latitude to states as to how they conduct their elections. This is clearly failing, but the larger question is how to remedy the problem. There needs to be uniform standards across the country. Bush v. Gore touched on this, but unfortunately only applied their remedy in that one deeply flawed decision. A bipartisan effort is needed to fix this, but is that possible as long as insanity reigns in DC?
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@pbehnken Well said. I should add, the idea that someone should "concede" in a tight race is such an appalling treatment of democracy. When we tell voters "every vote counts" and "your vote matters", we immediately slap them in the face when we don't actually count every vote down to the last.
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@pbehnken
A bipartisan solution would be terrific and some of we the people would love to see that. If enough of us say to our representatives we want that to happen, it will happen. I fear we may have to wake some people up though.
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@pbehnken - I'd suggest voting standards are not the problem in Florida. Every county in the state was able to provided accurate results in a timely manner as prescribed by law EXCEPT ONE and Broward isn't just the most populous county in the state. It's controlled by Democrats who overwhelmingly re-elected a corrupt Democrat to oversee elections. Commissioner Snipes added more than 120,000 votes after the polls closed and 87000 were added to Nelson's total from but that's more than 24% of the total cast in Broward County and I'd suggest Snipes is corrupt. How did Broward receive 120000 mail-in votes on election day when the statewide average was less than 6%? That's the lie she used not to comply but good luck proving it. Nobody can prove she received LESS than 120000 unless somebody not named Snipes counts them and Florida has a bulls eye on it's back but the voting mechanism is flawed especially in close elections when the results can be manipulated by unscrupulous elected political hacks who know how to exploit the system and I'd suggest that's the problem but Florida isn't alone. Florida just happens to be the biggest swing state with the closest elections in the country and I'd suggest it isn't the Russians who are meddling with our elections. This time it's the DEMOCRATS but the problem transcends both sides of the aisle and I think you're on target. A bipartisan effort is needed to fix this but is it possible as long as insanity reigns in DC? Good question
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