How about the people in our government who gave the Prince the confidence to kill a journalist living in the United States who was working at one of our largest news papers, the one that helped take down Nixon, what should we do with those incompetent fools?
3
If you go there (Istanbul) to retrieve him then why bring a bone saw used in autopsies?
5
What we really need to know here is the why of Mr Khashoggi's murder. He either deeply offended someone, or he knew too much and threatened to expose someone. The theory that makes the most sense is that Mr Khashoggi knew too much about the events of September 11, 2001, and threatened to expose the Saudi Arabian connection. What we do know is that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi Arabians, and that their effort was highly organized and well financed. The highest levels of the US government in the GW Bush, Clinton, Obama, and Trump administrations have not released the complete findings of the 9-11 investigation, so we can assume that there is some very troubling information that someone does not want revealed. My own theory is that 9-11 event was coordinated by very high levels of the US and Saudi governments to justify the US invasion of Iraq, a venture that served both the Saudis and the military industrial vendors of the US. Khashoggi knew this, and threatened to expose those involved. A simplified version of a complicated story.
2
Another instance of either striving mightily to bring forth an "Emperor's Clothes" explanation or just plain dithering until overcome by the feeling that "we just have to say something."
What's left is whether the US will react substantively against SA when it's overcome by the feeling that, now that SA has settled on its characterization of these events, it needs to "...not just sit there, [but to] do something."
Now about reacting "substantively"...Hmmmm?
How do they explain the presence of a bone saw? If the plan was to drug him and take him back to Saudi Arabia why send 15 men to accomplish that mission?
It doesn't pass the smell test.
4
If Saudi Arabia wants to restore its reputation it should go all out to save the millions of kids starving to death in Yemen. This is within reach if they put their might behind this task.
6
No matter who the conspirators were or who is ultimately to blame, Jamal Khashoggi was killed because he was a journalist shining a light on hidden truths in dark places, a light that continues to shine. He did not die in vain because others will take his place, proving once again that the pen is and always will be mightier than the sword.
3
This whole business has played out like a comic opera, with Saudis dancing around and juggling stories, pointing fingers at anybody they think might be ripe for the fall, and promising to behead their own henchmen.
But the horrible, ghastly murder of Jamal Khashoggi, with the gruesome details laid out before the world by the Turks from the start, is a tragedy.
Now our own government has joined in the antics with their sanctioning of 17 people for their "connections to the killing." What does that even mean?
If people are to be singled out for sanctions, instead of the Saudi state, shouldn't they start with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman?
6
It should end “Saudi threatens to execute 5 for getting caught and making them look bad”.
2
There are lots of useless things one brings on a trip that end up never being used.
But a BONE SAW?!
5
The Saudis will announce with some fanfare that the murder was NOT authorized, and that the perpetrators will be dealt with, followed by an announcement that the perpetrators had been executed by hanging or beheading or stoning or some other method du jour.
Meanwhile, nobody will actually be executed, and those responsible for the murder will live out their lives in some cushy, albeit anonymous, existence.
2
If this same killing had been of a Saudi resident of Germany who was wrote a column for a German paper we here in the US would have made absolutely nothing of this story, just as we make so little of what goes on inside Saudi Arabia that were a dissident inside the kingdom murdered in the way that Khashoggi was it would not even be considered newsworthy.
We are well aware that many of the countries we side with and use to our advantage severely punish those who feel they are free to speak their minds, and this is not our business because we understand that the whole world does not share our democratic system of government and laws.
So the sole issue here is that since he was a US resident and also a journalist for a US media outlet this story made headlines here and so people are reacting to this, not because it reveals more about the Saudis than it did had Khashoggi been a resident of another western country, but simply because people tend to react to stories that make the headlines. Had he been a resident of another western country this story would have been a 3 line item on the AP that the media would not have felt it to be newsworthy and nobody would have cared to comment on it.
2
So predictable, round up the usual suspects and kill off all the witnesses who might otherwise implicate the mastermind, rain more money, turn on the oil spigot and call it a day. If it still doesn't work, declare war on Iran. That should pay off Israel, which in turn will bribe the American politicians. So predictable!
2
The Crown Prince must be quite a guy. He's shocked, shocked to learn after weeks of investigation that there's gambling going on in Casablanca. Glad he's on such good terms with Mr. Kushner. I feel safer already.
2
Finally they found a story that almost works. I guess when you're ridiculously rich you don't think you'll ever need to explain yourself. Whatever, they were not equipped to deal with the international criticism they couldn't just buy off. (American politicians excepted.)
This might be a credible story if it hadn't taken a month to come up with it and the disbelief that the world cares about a gruesomely murdered journalist. And so the Crown Prince's men will go to Allah in the sky, or be hidden away, told their families will be cared for, martyrs to the cause for not speaking ill of their boss.
Clearly this was a planned operation which could not have been accomplished without tacit authority from the top and murdering their own as a cover up won't do much to stop the flow of negative information. But I'm sure they'll keep trying.
48
Here's a prediction. It's clear that the assassination was preplanned, and it is impossible to believe that MSB did not authorize it. And now he is planning to execute the agents he gave the order to.
The predictable result is that the intelligence agencies will lose all loyalty to MSB, and likely want him removed from power by any means necessary. And MSB, unless he is a complete idiot, will realize this has happened and will act to oppress the intelligence agencies, and you will have a war within the Kingdom.
24
@lkb
" And now he is planning to execute the agents he gave the order to." Yes. Evil begets evil.
2
'The mutilation of the body, the prosecutor said, was a spur-of-the-moment decision to get the body out of the consulate.'
I have no problem believing that explanation even though I realize that many of my fellow Americans might find that ludicrous.
Think of it this way: in America, someone gets mad - not insane, just angry - at someone, and the next thing you know, he has a gun and he whips it out and shoots. It is just a 'spur of the moment' thing.
Similarly, in Saudi Arabia, some one gets mad, and the next thing you know, he has a bone-saw hidden under his thobe (a thawb or thobe is an ankle-length Arab garment, usually with long sleeves, similar to a robe, kaftan or tunic, commonly worn in the Arabian Peninsula) and he whips it out and he dismembers the other guy - hopefully after killing him. It is a 'spur of the moment' thing.
I am also convinced that the National Bone-saw Association (NBA) of Saudi Arabia fights as fiercely as our NRA to protect every Saudi's right to own and carry a bone-saw. If and when they get a constitution, they will make sure that this right is included as the first or second amendment.
5
Bringing a bone saw from Saudi Arabia to Turkey doesn't seem like the spontaneous, spur-of-the-moment incident you posit, but perhaps it's just a coincidence.
1
"Thursday’s explanation closely echoed a previous Saudi account — portraying the killing as a rendition gone wrong — that President Trump had derided as 'one of the worst in the history of cover-ups'.”
The above statement suggests that actually Mr. Trump did not have much disagreement with the Saudis regarding the killing of Mr. Khashoggi. What he is most unhappy about is how incompetent they have been in their "cover-up."
3
'A bipartisan group of senators on Thursday introduced legislation that would block weapons sales to Saudi Arabia ... '
Isn't that going a bit too far? Isn't it like cutting off your nose to spite your face?
If we stop selling arms to SA just because MBS had a reporter killed (and dismembered), people around the world will conclude that the US puts too much weight on ethics and morality and is thus an unreliable supplier of arms they need to fight their neighbors and they will start buying their arms from China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, etc.
Then what will happen to our arms industry? Currently we are the largest supplier of arms to the world, but if we lose the market because some senators are a bit peeved at SA/MBS, our arms industry will go the way of the coal industry.
Trump is already having a hard time reviving the coal industry which needs to be done to make America great again. And now, if we cut off arms sales to SA, Trump will be burdened with the additional and equally impossible task of reviving the arms industry.
So, I say, let them have it.
1
Foreign countries such as Saudi Arabia, who have been relying on American arms for decades, can't just immediately switch over to weapons purchased from some other country. There are issues of compatibility. Russian fighter jets and tanks don't always seamlessly integrate with American fighter jets and tanks.
2
@Dreamer
Why does our arms industry need “reviving”?
Honest question posed to a dishonestly posed trope. The arms industry will always find countries to peddle their wares...
2
International criminals and murderers.
And of course why not kill anyone who could testify and blow the whistle on the real mastermind of the assassination, Kishner's pal the Prince?
International criminality aided and abetted by international corruption on a massive scale.
3
The idea of killing 5 people in response to a senseless killing is senseless.
If MBS was so appalled and surprised at the rogue conduct of his close aids, why not immediately address their conduct, rather than seek to cover himself --err--them?
MBS is permanently stained in Khashoggi's blood, whether he likes it or not. His only way out is to immediately stem the bloodshed in Yemen (and elsewhere).
3
Obviously if MBS isn’t the one in control of the hit men, then maybe he’s not in control at all and we should find someone else to negotiate with. Catch-22 for him. Sorry.
3
Why, oh, why does America repeatedly bow to this dictatorship, masquerading as a 'kingdom' since 1932? This is the place that gave us bin Laden, almost all of the 9/11 hijackers and now this? A place where women are basically property and the government publicly beheads people on a regular basis? It has been called 'ISIS with an embassy' for a reason.
Is it just oil, or more than that?
3
Why is Jared Kushner still working in the White House? The US is not Saudi Arabia and Kushner is not MBS.
3
I wonder what happens to Jared now that MBS is person non grata...
3
Despicable. Cowardly. The antithesis of leadership and accountability.
The only hope for these people is if they can hold on long enough for more vacancies to open up in the Trump Administration.
2
The Saudi "Justice" system is the definition of farce. You knew this is where our leaders would end with this acceptance of Saudi "justice.
I have seen published remarks that MBS is "stunned", "shocked" and unable to comprehend why westerners are so worked-up about Khashoggi's murder.
Well most modern persons cannot fathom the degradation of being at the total mercy of their leaders with no recourse or remedy under law as is the case for Saudi citizens. Their justice systems is purported to be Sharia law but really it's just unsystematic, brutal and easily manipulated to accomplish what ever Saudi rulers deem expedient at the time. They have no shame about locking up innocent, peaceful, people of conscience Saudi citizens until they break their spirit.
Of course, MBS is stumped by reaction to the Khashoggi murder. He lives in a sealed bubble - who among his citizens would be willing to tell him truthfully what they think about anything he does.
4
The accused must be given a chance to speak publicly. MBS will want to have them dead before they can say anything.
2
A bad joke, poorly done.
Through this horrible story, I haven't heard a single "non-Saudi" voice in support of the Saudi position. More than any other episode during Donald Trump's tenure, this story emerges as a high stakes litmus test of his moral rectitude. As an American, it is reassuring to observe the consensus among Americans surrounding the saga of Mr. Khashoggi, a resident of our country.
4
This is how evil these people are. They will now kill people that they ordered to do the murder or had nothing to do with it. And they think this will absolve them. And our high level officials are just as duplicitous, Pompeo, Kushner, Haspel, etc. .. Now this admin. is going to impose sanctions on 17 Saudis. What a sick joke. ...
10
The Saudi public prosecutor’s request to secure the death penalty for the five accused can only be ordered and carried out by MBS !!! This is his plan to get rid of any witnesses who have the knowledge that MBS ordered the assassination of Jamal Khashoggi !!! Note that publicly, all the activities involved in the murder of Jamal Khashoggi and since his murder are carried out by agents other than MBS … MBS is doing everything to avoid getting his hands bloody and doing the dirty work … but the reality is that all these activities can only be carried out by the author of these activities who has the only power to order his agents to do so … MBS !!!
The UN should press for an independent and thorough investigation on the murder of Jamal Khashoggi !!!
6
It`s time to deliver sharia on the crown prince and the other funny clown kings.1789 we began to abolish the kingdoms all over the world.Now its time again to put boots on the ground in Saudi Arabia and end this stupid regime.Let`s bring the people there democracy, they deserve this like in former times the European people..
1
Kill and pay, the Saudi twin solutions to all problems. Then deny, obfuscate, kill and pay again. A blood and money soaked ruling elite no American should have anything to do with.
4
Saudi can claim to have executed anyone because verification that it has taken place is impossible.
1
Their crime was getting caught in the act. Future assassins beware. Next time don’t let your boss take the fall.
2
So they are going to kill another 5 people who would not have killed except on order of the Saudi Prince?? Horrible over horrible. These people act like relics from the 16th century.
4
This leaves me feeling disgusted. There will never be justice for Kashoggi's murder unless Mohammed BS is tried, found guilty and executed. This will never happen. Everyone knows that seeking the death penalty for the murderers is nothing more than a publicity stunt. I hope the world never forgets this atrocity.
2
In the name of Allah the Merciful…
1
It's 1984 on the Islamic Kingdom's calendar.
1
No names. No pictures. They will probably execute someone, or more. But I wouldn’t want to be some poor slob with a traffic violation who is picked to walk the plank.
3
This is theater to make it easier for Trump to keep supporting the Saudi Prince in view of domestic criticism on moral grounds. (The Israelis don't have any such problems.) But they aren't going to chop the heads off the guys who followed the Prince's orders. If the Saudi script requires the court, if one can call it that, to mete out a death sentence, it will be commuted and the culprits taken care of later. We need a serious international inquiry.
3
Will my boycotting uber for the usual rides to work make a difference?
Heavy sigh.
1
Yes to the Uber question! Haven’t you heard that your Uber boycott is working? Uber reported that it had a net loss of $ 1 billion in quarter 3 of 2018.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-14/uber-revenue-slows-as-quarterly-loss-surges-to-1-1-billion
1
So the Saudi solution is to thrown its own henchman under the bus as a PR tactic, claiming the higherups had no inking violence was to be involved?
Ok, let's say this (almost -yeah, right- plausible, plausible assuming we go on some heavy duty narcotics for a moment, on top of a lobotomy) "plausible deniability" thing holds. What about being an "accessory after the fact" by participating in the murder's concealment?
Surely sharia law has something to say about assisting murderers after the fact, and gjven the code's draconianness, I suspect these "after the fact" participants are treated in the same way as the killers. I also suspect guilt under this doctrine can be assumed to reach to the very top, if there is the courage and will (a very big "if" of course) to look for it there.
However, I also suspect Sharia law may offer a loophole for heads of government, under a kind of pragmatic "raison d'etat" (or even "l'etat c'est moi") rationale.
2
@anon-for-my-own-safety - Sharia has nothing to do with it. Evil doers can twist any religious or governmental system to facilitate their wicked ends.
1
One thing we can be sure of is those 5 will receive a fair trial.
2
I wonder how supportive the military and intelligence apparatus will be of MBS as they witness the repercussions of loyalty to the crown. Nasty business.
2
Whatever else may be said, the United States is in bed with Saudi Arabia.
Trust me, China will be the beneficiary.
Yes, I know, "Wholly unrelated."
We'll see.
1
Bravo, MbS, murder those faithful servants who carried out your directive to murder Mr Khashoggi.
The world does not need Saudi oil or anything else this wretched state has to offer. The world has far more to gain by working with Iran towards normalization. Yet, the world continues to embrace these barbarians in Saudi Arabia.
Sins of omission Mssrs Trump, Pence and GOP. Hypocrisy done grand for all others, including Mr Erdogan.
4
The Saudi-White House reaction to this grotesque act has been laughable from the get-go. The Saudis threatening the death penalty? What a joke. There was a time not long ago that women who wanted to drive were threatened with imprisonment. And let's not forget Yemen - although most have - and the death penalty the Saudis - with the US complicit - imposes every day.
But there is hope. Apparently our `president' is taking a bold step to improve US standing in the world.
``President Donald Trump on Wednesday announced his intention to nominate Lana Marks, a luxury handbag designer, as the U.S. ambassador to South Africa. She is also a member of the president’s exclusive Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida, multiple outlets reported.'' (Huff Post)
Nelson Mandela would have been impressed.
4
So the old phrase, "thrown under the bus," isn't just a figure of speech in Saudi Arabia. To protect CP Mohammed, they're not only going to throw some folks under a bus, they're going to put swords on the tires, all in secret of course. Wouldn't want any one spilling any literal beans. Guts will be enough, thank you.
1
It will never happen. They'll claim the deed is done and secretly ship them off to another country with new identities. That or they'll have a public execution of a few men already in prison but no one will know the difference. People are expendable there
4
The memory of the brutal murder of Khashoggi by the Saudi hit squad will not go away, and it is and will continue to damage the Saudi kingdom irreparably.
55
This is farcical. By refusing to admit his obvious role in Khashoggi's death, the Saudi prince MBS shows why he's not fit to be leader. Psychopath that he is, he's willing to sacrifice those who were carrying out his orders -- who probably faced death or flogging if they didn't comply. This idiotic idea just adds to why MBS should be replaced. He truly is a madman turned loose. He doesn't value human life, he doesn't acknowledge personal property. He feels that if he's okay then Saudi is okay. But he stole the leadership and Saudi is far from okay. Yemen is far from okay. He paints himself as a savior, when he's a common thief and murderer. Like his benefactors and soul mates Trump and Kushner, he is not above the law.
10
Money is on a pardon with Islamic mercy sparing their lives right around Ramadan.
To be locked up for life at the Ritz Carlton.
This is all theater, no one will be beheaded.
5
This is so patently obvious and stupid.
5
Do the Saudis really think the rest of world is that stupid? Shame on them.
5
What should we call a prince who sends a dozen thugs and a coroner with a bone saw to kidnap a journalist, and then acts appalled that the journalist is dismembered and dissolved in acid? His royal incompetence? And what do we call him when he sentences his thugs to death for following his orders? His royal cowardliness? The stink of evil won't be washed away further injustices.
79
@Larry Leker - The prince is shocked, shocked that a murder took place.
7
Before we get all up in arms about how these men are being mistreated, please remember: they killed a completely innocent man. Say what you want about MBS, the Saudi government, etc. - these men DESERVE the death penalty, and wholeheartedly so.
1
It’s like the post-WW2 defense at Nuremberg trial: I was just following orders.
Only this time the despot is doing the executions to cover his own.
3
Hmm... « decided on the spot to kill and dismember him »? Are we to believe that it was just a coincidence that there was a guy with a bone saw among those sent to bring him back to Saudi Arabia? Nice try, but not a chance. Try again.
12
The death penalty is for getting caught.
6
...talk about takin' a fall.
2
Mr Bone Saw needs to hire a better class of liars to work for him.
1
"Justice" done as only the Saudi ruling family can ...
A team of 15, hand-picked and assembled to carry out a gruesome killing.
Heads will roll, which was evident from the start.
Just not all of the right ones will find the noose or axe. (Looking at you, 'Crown Prince.')
Or, maybe they took a martyr's oath, like the hijackers and are looking forward to 'paradise?'
Either way -- Unbelievable. And yet not. We've seen many variations of this before.
~ 9/11 family member
4
The only death penalty assessed should be for the Saudi regime itself. A bunch of criminals and misogynists running that country as their own private bank for the past century. Disgusting. The United States should refuse to recognize that government’s legitimacy.
7
Would the people found guilty be publicly executed? And if so, would they have their faced covered so you will never know who was executed. Plausible scenario is that maybe those publicly executed (with faces covered) would be some other enemies of the Saudi state while those supposedly punished for the crime are given a new identify and relocated. Otherwise truly loyal servants would rarely undertake risky missions on behalf of the royalty.
8
Trump desperately trying to spin this to keep his Saudi buddies happy. Trump "sanctioning" 17 Saudis means nothing. No arms sales; cut diplomatic relations; stop Crown Prince in his tracks. Always remember; Trump is worried about billions in arms sales and American jobs. Right and wrong does not matter to Trump. Ray Sipe
9
If the Watergate burglars had all been summarily executed, Nixon would never have been incriminated.
5
On May 20, 2017, U.S. President Trump and Saudi King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud made the “Deal.”. The U.S. will arm the Saudi regime in exchange for US$110 billion. Khashoggi fled the regime and he didn’t go far. He came to the U.S. The caveat attached to the mandate for the assassination must have been ‘just don’t do it here.’ Surely it would have dawned on even the dumbest Americans that we are subjects of the Saudi realm, if Khashoggi had been assassinated on American soil. There would need to be real repercussions. What would happen if the deal was quashed? We will never know. They have all the oil and will have all the arms they need to keep it. America will be the Saudi proxy in the war against Turkey and that conflict will be recognized by history as the start of WWIII. Meanwhile America just look over there to the South, that siege of the Toltec Empire headed our way on foot; that’s what President Trump wants you to worry about. Focus.
7
The real reason for the death penalty is THOSE MEN KNOW TOO MUCH.
7
Amazing what the Crown Prince is willing to do to take the suspicion off him!!!!!!
There's the old story Arabic tale about the scorpion and a camel. The scorpion wants a life across a river, but the camel is very wary.
Camel: If I give you a lift says the camel to the scorpion, you will sting me and we both will die!
Scorpion: I promise not to sting you.
Camel: I don't think so.
Scorpion: But I promise!
After several hours, the camel finally acquiesces and agrees to the scorpions request. As the 2 are crossing the river, the scorpion stings the camel. The camel, unbelievably astonished and frightened that he is going to die, asks the scorpion why he stung him.
The scorpion answers: Because this is the Middle East!
Moral of this story as it relates to Saudi Arabia?
Think about it!
7
"How many Saudis does it take to bring a countryman home?"
No fair, we already know the answer: 15.
Anyway, who travels without a bone saw these days.
And now the latest good idea: kill 5 of the people best able to explain what actually happened with Mr. Khashoggi.
Who needs a "Truth and Justice Commission" when you've got facts like these. Can't wait for Jared to fete the Saudi crown prince in DC. Good people. Getting together to do good things. All is good. Good.
20
The Khashoggi investigation brings back memories of living in the Middle East as a young man. I always had a nagging worry that I would be accused of a crime. As a member of a minority I was a potential fall guy for someone in high places that needed cover.
6
This was completely predictable.
MbS gives the order to murder Khasoggi.
And will murder subordinates who obeyed him.
And now, Trump is thinking about how he can extradite, Fethullah Gulen, a US resident and Turkish exile, to appease Erdogan.
The Art of the Deal of Death
10
@FJM
Fethullah Gulen, needs to leave the U.S. and get somewhere safe.
3
The Prince would have us believe that the five accused misunderstood the orders given? So is the Prince likening their conduct to that of Amelia Bedelia?
I guess the five better hope they can bake some delicious pies that will put a smile on the Prince.
6
If the purpose of sending a team to Istanbul was to bring Khashoggi back to Saudi Arabia alive, why did they need to bring a bone saw with them?
And the Saudi strategy to address the international uproar caused by the execution? To execute more people, of course!
Is this ghastly charade intended to fool someone about something?
7
Saudi Arabia is currently serving a three year term on UN human rights council. This should tell the readers what a mockery United Nations has become.
13
This reminds me of those mummy movies of the 1930’s where all the men that toiled to bury the pharaoh or whomever were instantly killed so as to prevent them from revealing the location of the tomb.
5
This incident is an exact parallel to Trump and his flunkies who are currently making deals. In both cases the “bosses “ are sitting back making excuses and lies to distance themselves from their dastardly deeds while their foot soldiers pay the price. The prince will never be punished, his country doesn’t allow it. Trump hopefully will with our justice department be brought to pay for his crimes. That’s why he calls this a “great country “ , we are a democracy and we are called to task when we do wrong. And must pay accordingly.
3
So do we get a show trial where these men admit they killed Jamal Khashoggi without orders from the crown prince, who then commutes their death sentence in the interest of justice? Or does the crown prince actually let five men die to cover up his order to kill Mr. Khashoggi?
3
So, should the suspects be convicted and executed, and then additional evidence shows that Mohammed Bin Salmon was also responsible, will they execute him too? Asking for a friend.
5
Well, I guess you really have to put this into the category or no good deed goes unpunished.
I mean really?!? The dictator of your country asks you to "do him a solid" by killing a guy in another country and then
chopping his body up, so you decide to do it for him and this is how he repays you, cutting your head off in Tahrir Square??? Geez.
What is the world coming to when a first rate thug running Saudi Arabia is pressured into killing his own assassins?? Time was, dictators could do what they pleased... and now we've come to this?
Mohammad Bin Salman won't be able to hold his head up high at the next OPEC meeting. All the other dictators will make fun of him and snicker at him behind his back. Ugh. Terrible.
9
Can't wait to hear Trump’s answer when a reporter asks him if he actually believes that these 5 did this on their own. Oh wait a minute he will call the reporter rude and a disgrace and remove their press badge. Never mind. Only a Trump supporter could believe any of this insanity.
10
Saudi Arabia is in a tight spot; their only tactics aren't working - buying their way out or having opposition eliminated.
It's clear to me without the bite of true leverage from POTUS, nothing will come of this. Turkey will attempt to keep it in the headlines, but the audio file has been dumped and that was supposed to be the smoking gun, so I'm not sure what they have left.
A few more tweets from Trump and this will be forever buried, but not forgotten among true champions of free thought and speech.
3
Seriously, is this a joke or what? Saudi Arabia expects the world to believe that the Saudi killers were not ordered to do so, otherwise, why were they flown into Turkey from Saudi Arabia. Only Trump would believe this idiocy!
6
Looks like Captain Renault rounded up the usual suspects.
4
Casablanca, 1942.
1
RE: "after he resisted they decided on the spot to kill and dismember him"
Based on earlier reports of Khashoggi being strangled upon arriving it would seem that "resisting" was defined as breathing.
Interesting that it was said that boss should be told the mission was completed when it was a spur of the moment decisopm. Maybe field operatives can instigate their own missions and the "boss" would just know what it was about?
And no doubt that it was just a fortunate coincidence that after "deciding on the spot" that an autopsy specialist had just happened to arrive with a bone saw. A miracle! Praise be to Allah.
6
Will the death penalty be administered to the Clown Prince should it turn out that he was complicit in this crime?
3
So what is that you people want? Admission that it was a targeted murder ordered by MbS himself and warm apologies? MbS early retirement? Exile? Head? Blockade on Saudi seaports and airports? Siege of Riyadh?
1
@Skinny hipster
I know. It is so terrible these days how the rabble peasants question the absolulte power of a monarchy.
Murder with impunity is as much a devine right as being driven about in a Rolls Royce, having women of your choice, gold layed at your feet, and watching the peasants suffer at your pleasure.
6
Skinny Hipster: we, the people, want justice. Is that too much to ask for when a human being is strangled & chopped up into unrecognizable pieces by a country’s crown prince, king or president?
Second, US voters want our White House and Congress to stop this TIGHT political relationship with Saudi Arabia’s House of Saud. We cannot stomach our government turning the other way in the face of blatant murder & cover up of an American journalist.
4
A spin off from this article would be a full list of Saudi investments world wide.
Gina Haspel knows torture when she hears it.
If nothing is done by the US government after Ms Haspel listened to that tape, then consumers must respond.
4
It is impossible to imagine this murder being carried out without the express approval of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, but he's going to execute the witnesses who could directly implicate him. It'll soon be back to business as normal between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia. We need the oil and the weapons market far too much to let the killing of a pesky journalist get in the way.
4
Of course it was spur of the moment. Don't all cops bring bone saws and forensic doctors when they confront people?
7
The Prince IS responsible. He should be 'demoted,' or, removed from his post. His father needs to teach him a lesson on humanity...like they know it?:( And, Pompeo is an incredulous fool to think we consider their admission, 4 weeks after the killing, that he was cut up a big deal. We already knew this. Every country who does business with the Saudi's needs to put this relationship on hold. Many persons have heard the tapes. Can they sleep at night? Trump has no qualms...he is envious of the Prince but, the other members of the government that have some semblance of justice must be sick. If they aren't...we are lost.
4
Nobody believes these lies. Saudi Arabia offers the world oil and a dynasty of nasty and arrogant people who lack any respect for human life. They are picking a few people to be scapegoats but the Crown Prince is the murderer. He's proved to be a vicious but incompetent leader who is creating problems in the region which will lead to even worse problems. We need to pressure the Saudi family to oust this man.
4
So they're killing 5 people in order to coverup the murder of 1 person. And pretending that a doctor with a bone saw needed to come to an operation that wasn't intended to kill?
I'm not as gullible as Trump, to believe that - not that this is a high bar to beat.
3
I wonder if these five people are already. The Saudi kingdom may be pretending they are in jail somewhere, but who knows?
The only people on the world stage that Trump can count as friends are killers with a track record. Yet people are willing to work in the White House to protect this man and marginalize Mueller.
2
And now Turkey wants us to secretly give them a dissident living legally in NJ, the one Michael Flynn supposedly was going to kidnap? Will Trump write the cleric's death warrant now so he can garner favor with the murderous Saudis?
I worked in Hollywood for several years. If this was a script I was reading, I'd shred it 10 pages in. Even for action/adventure, its un-believable.
3
If Prince MBS isn't on the list, then it's all a charade.
3
I'm thinking the death penalty is for getting caught.
6
I guess this is what is meant by "Taking one for the team."
5
The question is, will Trump condone this "justice"?
2
Scary to think of what can become of self-absorbed dictators who fear their own critics enough to go to these kinds of lengths. Strikes a little bit close to home, doesn't it?
4
The old kiss up/kick down philosophy taken to its logical extreme.
Just the kind of stuff that Trump loves:
"The buck stops anywhere but here!"
4
A dictatorship had one of it's detractors killed. End of story. The henchmen who carried out the orders are just that; henchmen. They don't invent their orders. They carry them out.
You connect the dots.
The House of Saud is hoping that coming out with any formal sounding judicial decree/indictment (whatever) will not necessarily sound believable to those who actually think around world but will give enough cover to all their business and foreign government friends enough cover to continue business as usual.
3
Oh, piffle. Deny, delay, deflect, and take that hand that was caught in the cookie jar and start pointing in all directions and blaming everybody else. MBS got caught. Now it's damage control. Spin. And Trump wants to protect that arms deal because some of that $130B is going to HIM. It's always about him.
2
Can’t believe I agree with Trump - but this continues to be “worst cover up ever”.
4
This has been one the clumsiest political murder in modern history. It's cover up ridiculous. The final absurd.
I guess Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia will never find in the future a single volunteer for that kind of plot.
2
Because the Saudis are children...
The KSA just makes this worse and worse for themselves. The only intelligent thing I've ever heard from the mouth of the Donald is the observation that this is "the worst cover-up in the history of cover-ups."
4
Five sacrificial lambs to save Prince Mohammed bin Salman.
Each new account from the Saudis contradicts previous explanations but the most disturbing aspect of this sordid affair is that the White House has joined the Saudis in the attempted cover-up.
7
Wait, let me guess... After a months-long trial, a Saudi court will acquit based on a lack of evidence, or the court will convict, only to have the conviction overturned by a higher Saudi court. There are a million ways out of this one that do not involve sacrificing his adherents. Given MBS's track record, why should we expect that this trial will be anything short of a total sham?
1
What trial?
1
Clearly this is just another attempt to obfuscate the facts. If the accused five are sentenced to death no doubt that will be clumsily faked as well. The most amazing part of this fiasco is that Trump correctly assessed and summarized the whole event in one sentence.
3
I always thought contract murder was considered the most heinous by the U.S; yet we stand by and take no serious action in the face of this audacious attempt by the Saudis to cover up for the 'contractor'- in this case the prince. Worse, we are now complicit in the pending deaths of those 'witnesses' who carried out the orders. Whether you agree with the death penalty or not, it's a joke to call this justice when the one who ordered the 'hit' not only goes free- but continues to enrich himself and his corrupt family.
3
Charging of death penalty is just for show. Saudi regime expects no one in the international community is going to remember Khashoggi in 5 years. And does anybody really know whether these alleged criminals were even detained by the Saudi government?
The bottom line is Saudi is a criminal regime and the United States of America should distance itself as far away from Saudi's criminal activities as possible.
4
The results of this international shaming of Saudi Arabia may not be completely desirable.
But it shows us that such shaming does work on a dictatorial, abusive, human rights violating country.
43
@Maya
Saudis are not so much shamed as recalibrating.
3
The Saudi government has no credibility whatsoever. They are ghoulish monsters. Whatever Saudi officials say means about as much as the daily nonsense coming out of the mouth of President Donald Trump. Zero credibility. No journalist should ever take either one of them seriously.
3
Sad thing is they would have died anyway if they did not carry out the orders.
2
It has got to be rough when your career involves following orders that result in your boss executing you, simply because you were doing what you were told.
Caught between Iraq and...Constantinople?
3
A whitewash in red.
2
Lies, Lies and more Lies from the Wahhabis.
Supported by an administration which specializes in lying.
3
The Saudis admit that they sent fifteen thugs to drag Khashoggi to Saudi Arabia. And what do you think they had in mind for him in the homeland---assuming they were in this instance telling the truth. Were they planning to throw out the same red carpet they used to welcome Trump? Logic makes us believe that sooner or later MBS would have Khashoggi's head---because MBS has shown himself to be a vindictive, pathological killer in the past, rigidly ignoring all humanitarian considerations. In this age of Trump--- deception and falsehoods have become the norm for authoritarian governments, saying whatever is felt to make the ruler look better, following the pattern set by the American leader. It does not make sense for rational beings to keep allowing leaders to propound one lie after another without a loud and clear rejection of whatever is said after two or three lies: Shout it out loud: "We can no longer tolerate your lies. You said at first he never came, Lie One, then you said he left, Lie Two, then you said , he got into a fight and was killed by accident, Lie Three. You have told the maximum number of lies we allow, confirming that you are a pathological liar. We do not believe anything you now say." And we should act accordingly. MBS should be held accountable; he should be punished and his additional lies ridiculed.
7
@shimr
Fifteen thugs - and a doctor with a bone saw - and an audio tape that shows that this was no attempt to bring him 'home' to be appreciated for his writing.
3
These are 'good people' the kind of which the trumper/son in-law can do business with. Bet they wear flag pins on their jackets and don't ever take a knee.
7
Nothing like this happens without orders frm the top.
Period.
10
Isn't this a rerun of Shakespeare's "Henry II?" Henry is unhappy with his Archbishop Thomas Beckett and murmurs something to the effect of "won't someone rid me of this troublesome man." Several of his henchman to whom he speaks do just that and are later hung for their trouble after a public outcry. Do Saudi princes read Shakespeare?
11
It seemed obvious from the beginning of this sad affair that the lead killers would be liquidated before they could definitively rat out Prince Mohammad. MSB's governing style is that of Don Corleone. Mr. Trump just wishes he could get away with eliminating threats the way his friends MSB, Putin, and Kim do.
9
hey have to die because they followed an order from the Prince.
Don't get me wrong, if they murdered the journalist they should get the death penalty. But the Prince has to get it do.
Otherwise there is no justice. All involved need to be punished.
3
I doubt that the five people who will be 'chosen' for execution will even be remotely related to the five (reduced from 15?), who carried out the murder.
It's much easier to grab a couple of innocent people off the street, drug them, parade them, and publicly execute them - while the real killers get identity changes, are rewarded by mbs, and are sent out to carry out more murders.
5
So, wait, there's royal involvement in his killing and now more people are going to die (who may or may not have had a hand in Khashoggi's death) ... but not the responsible royal? No trial? Not even a show trial?
Interesting times we live in where Trump condemns people for being Muslims but is friends with a Muslim prince who assassinates his opponent--a journalist with an American newspaper and American green card holder. $$$ makes strange bedfellows.
10
Ah, the "Dead men tell no tales" strategy.
7
Wow, talk about falling on your sword for your boss. These guys are going to be literally doing just that.
7
amazing. The Crown Prince orders his minions to go perform a killing, then he decides to kill those who did The Killing. His subjects are not going to put up with this much longer as any one of them could very well be next for the beheading
6
Does this include MBS?
3
And this is supposed to prove that they are not barbarians?
4
There's one thing amoral leaders can be relied upon: they will look after themselves. Themselves only! Ultimately no one else matters. Not one little bit. Faithful servants, especially those who have blood on their hands, watch out! You are expendable.
Rachael Maddow's recent blog discusses Nixon's efforts to obstruct the Justice Department's investigation of VP Agnew. Agnew was a loyal Nixon supporter, but he was also using his White House position to procure kickbacks on government contracts.
Transcript:
“... but when that (obstruction) effort failed Nixon was more than willing to turn on Agnew in order to save himself and that is when things went totally off the rails to the point where Spiro Agnew actually
00:37:09 believed that Richard Nixon might be plotting to have him killed...”
Agnew actually feared Nixon might have him assassinated?
Looks like Nixon wasn't the only paranoiac.
https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/bag-man/4-episode-4-turn-it-off-jm1_CuEoavy/#2229
4
First Prince Mohamed 2 days after Khashoggi was killed said in a Bloomberg interview that Mr. Khashoggi has left the Consulate and that Saudi Arabia was worry about his whereabouts.
Then, they told us that Khashoggi was killed in a fist fight. They finally admitted that it was a premeditated murder.
Now, the Saudi public prosecutor says it wasn't a premeditated murder but an abduction gone wrong.
Why send a forensic expert with a bone saw to carry out an abduction?
Why were more than 5 people directly connected to MBS part of that team of killers?
Why did they first cut off his hands if they were planning to abduct him?
These murderers are supposed to be Saudi Arabia "Seal team 6" and look at how bad they carry their mission. It says a lot about Saudi Arabia as a country and explain all the mess in Yemen.
Mr. Mutareb is seen in many pictures accompanying MBS in his foreign trips. Him calling Saudi Arabia right after the assassination and instructing a person to tell the boss "the job is done" point directly to MBS.
The Saudis face a choice. Standby MBS and risk losing support in the West. There are thousands of princes each of them with a valid claim to the throne.
In the comment below, I predicted more than a year ago how dangerous MBS would be for the region and Saudi Arabia
https://nyti.ms/2zarxaw#permid=22951587
5
Competent Criminals only kill for advantage or gain. What we witnessed here is a psychopath carrying out a revenge killing on a bookworm with the power of the pen. Unlike the double agents Putin has poisoned, Khoshoggi never betrayed his country or his country's government and was never a threat to the House of Saud, unless one feels entering the 19th or 20th Century from the 10th is a threat. Kidnap and arrest? If they wanted K in 10th century Arabian Nights with the death penalty, all they had to do was invite him to speak. Insane, Psychopathic, Incompetent and spoiled by Wealth and Privilege. Just happy no Americans or Turks were involved in this Horror Show.
6
That’s great. You do the job your boss told you to do, and then he kills you. What a world.
5
How is it that there is no investigation of the fiancée or the ex-wife? He met his fiancée earlier this year. He arranged the appointment at the embassy in order to provide evidence that he’d divorced his previous wife.
The fiancée is currently under 24-hour police protection. While it makes sense to go after those directly involved in the killing, it’s interesting that no one is questioning the bizarre sequence to events with the fiancée... Is it too extraordinary to believe that she is a CIA asset who lured JK to the embassy?
1
@Joe Schmoe - Did the US want him dead? If not, why would the CIA have anything to do with it?
It has been strange to see how publicized this whole extra judicial murder of a news reporter has been, as well as all the outrage and calls for retribution.
As I recall from following world news in the NYT, state sponsored murder and silencing of news reporters happens frequently in Russia and other Eastern European countries, not to mention China and the Middle East.
I see it reported and then the news cycle moves on.
What is making this incident so different?
Every reporter in those countries out to be given a medal for bravery. Course it's getting a bit dicey here in the US, too, though we haven't reached that point YET.
3
Perhaps the point is that he was an American permanent resident, plus the extreme cruelty of the murder. Vicious.
Is MBS among them? Otherwise this is just a pass for the prince (lower case intended). He ain't no royalty.
Nope, just one or two generations from a camel driver.
Double tragedy, double villainy of the Saudi government. They ordered the killing of Khashoggi in the first place, now they want to execute (murder) the minions who carried out their kill instruction.
The Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia is not only blood thirsty, he is insulting the intelligence of every decent human being out there. We are witnessing the formation of the most murderous dictator of the next generation.
216
Saudi Arabia is indeed horrible to the extreme and up there in the top 10 but China makes them look like amateurs. China has been building prisons at an enormous rate in Eastern Turkestan and is jailing and executing Uighurs at a dizzying speed simply because they are living in an area that China wants total control of. Trump and every last Republican and a majority of Democrats just love China.
16
@DSD
I have no reason to believe the majority of Democrats love China. Hillary Clinton is well-known for declaring in China that "Women's rights are human rights", and Pelosi is known for unfurling a banner in Tienanmen Square memorializing those who died in the massacre at Square.
We can say U.S. businesses love doing business with China.
7
@Merlin
I think the Saudi government intends to "round up the usual subjects."
2
There needs to be an international trial not controlled by Saudi Arabia to get to the bottom of this killing. The US should insist on it, or we should stop aiding or trading with them.
230
It's never stopped us yet - we did a lot of aiding and trading with Central and Latin American countries and South Africa when dictatorships and racist regimes were in full force. The excuse was that we could somehow influence the behavior of those oppressive governments.
9
I agree but I suggest the US Congress should insist on this (Trump doesn’t have the guts or integrity to do this). And I suggest we put sanctions on Saudi Aramco. Target the sanctions at their source of wealth, to defang the House of Saud.
6
@Gene Venable - But Trump must have his resort! All else is secondary!
4
Smart move in that the alleged conspirators will eventually, in 1-2 years , stand trial that will go on and on ad eventually they will be sentenced. Then the appeals process will begin and 3-6 years from now the sentences will be reduced to time served. Served by hometown arrest most likely.
1
More likely a quick trial and head chopping in the town square.
1
My scenario: Saudi Arabia finds five body doubles to take the place of MBS's five henchmen, who will be publicly beheaded, thereby solving the problem as viewed from MBS's perspective.
23
If you believe this nonsense, then please call me I have some ocean side property in Idaho I would love to sell to you. Of course Donald Trump will believe it, or at least tell all the rest of us how courageous the Saudis were in tracking down the killers and finalizing this case so quickly. Sad. I don't know why we put up with the Saudis, I don't even think we need their oil anymore. Most of the 9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, as well as Osama Bin Laden, and others who have participated in terrorist attacks against our country. We're always beating up on Iran, but Iran, compared to Saudi Arabia, is a veritable liberal democracy. Perhaps we should rethink our whole Middle East strategy.
8
@Kjensen A couple more West Coast earthquakes and fires and I may call you about that Idaho ocean front. Incidentally, why did you buy it in the first place?
@Kjensen
Agree! When you're oil-rich you can get away with murder.
I thought Allah loved the merciful...
3
Reminds me of the aftermath of the torture and murder of Italian graduate student Giulio Regeni. A few weeks later, the “islamist perpetrators” were gunned down in the streets by Egyptian security forces as they ran away, and the government patted itself on the back for the justice well served. Nevermind the fingerprints of Egyptian security forces all over the disappearance...
But in that case there was no smoking gun, only extremely suspicious (and remarkably familar) circumstances which pointed towards the Egyptian government, in conjunction with utter opaqueness from those “investigating the incident,” so international governments were limited in their possible responses. That doesn’t seem to be the case here. This looks like blatant thuggery and brutality ordered from the very top, and the “tell your boss” comment is as damning as it gets for Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman.
We shouldn’t let this slide, even if the Saudis are critical allies of ours. Global thuggery may never be eliminated, at least not with skilled and malicious actors like Russia in the world, but it must be kept on the defensive at all times. If we don’t hold our allies to account, we cede our moral authority and lose our ability to hold our enemies to account when they do the same.
11
Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, an eye for an eye.
3
Saudi new motto " Come in peace and go out in pieces"
9
If they were going to abduct him; they didn’t need 15 people, a doctor and hack saw in advance. You only need about 3 or 4 people to drug him and fly him back. These people are so stupid that they think others will buy their stories.
Also wonder how 5 of the assasins will all agree to be thrown under the bus, without spilling the beans??!!
12
@Kam Eftekhar
So it only takes 3 or 4 to drug him and fly him back but it takes 15 to kill him and dismember him? Why should that be the case? If 3 or 4 could drug him and fly him back, they could drug him, kill him and dismember him just as easily couldn't they?
1
OK, so if I understand this correctly, men who were acting upon orders from their "boss" are now up for the death penalty at the order from....their "boss."
The Saudis must think the rest of the world to be idiots. They changed their story at least four times. They employed a guy to parade around in Jamal Khashoggi's clothing - i.e., to impersonate him and feed the story that he was still alive. They sent a man with a bone-cutting saw....need I go on? And now we are supposed to say, ah yes, Saudi Arabia, you, clearly, are in pursuit of justice.
Then again, given the on-camera responses from Pompeo and lack of condemnation by Trump (not to mention the cutesy WhatsApp messages between Jared and MBS), perhaps they are on to something.
141
@Charlemagne
All for show. They will never be executed.
3
@Charlemagne: as long as we keep buying their oil
and make money selling them 'extended' arms
to reach all the way into yemen and other places ...
the saudis have no reason to take us or our sanctions
seriously.
8
re: "They employed a guy to parade around in Jamal Khashoggi's clothing - i.e., to impersonate him and feed the story that he was still alive."
The "premeditation" point here is that the assassination organizers packed this particular guy onto the plane back in Saudi Arabia for the sole reason that he looked like Khashoggi. Once he reached Turkey, his assignment was apparently to pull off this one single act of deception for which he was uniquely qualified.
10
The fifteen guys they sent only meant to kidnap Khashoggi, but they took along a bone saw just in case. Right.
10
Those who performed the killing now have nothing left to lose — curious to see if they will betray the real murderer, the prince, and remove any possibility of denial once and for all!
2
The only person in the world who will buy this latest fairy tale from Saudi Arabia is Donald Trump.
12
When Saudi seeks the death penalty for MBS...Now that will be newsworthy. But the dictator whacking a few more underlings to shift blame from his premeditated murdering and still keep his crown? He's not fooling anyone.
3
So five poor suckers are going to lose their heads because they followed orders...MBS et.al. will keep on changing the story until they get a version that'll elicit an "uh, yeah; that sounds good to me," from Pompeo and trump...Then we can get this "unfortunate misunderstanding" behind us and get down to business as usual.....which, of course, means killing more Yemini civilians with US weapons....and perhaps planning a 9/11 sequel?.... They got away with it then...time for another go?...
7
So are they going kill the people that carried out the murder? Or are they gonna find some look-alikes and kill them?
2
It's also to be noted that MbS is particularly close to Jared Kushner who styles himself a devout Jew.
As a Jew myself,. I've searched and searched the Bible - Old Testament and New - and nowhere do I see where killing is condoned.
Au contraire...
Jared Kushner and his cohort Stephen Miller are a disgrace to the Jewish people. No: they're a disgrace to anyone with an IQ above freezing and even a scintilla of ethics.
NOT my president
15
The Danites wanted some land. They found a peaceful (bible’s own words), killed them and took their land.
1
Well, keep looking.
Not surprising, the NY Times herein published the most obvious and predictably repetitive and almost duplicate comments (I stopped counting those with "thrown under the bus" after the first 20 or so). This article has the usual number of unattributed comments from unnamed "Several and formal officials" including some from Turkey, not really a friend of SA. Then there's the always predictable "it's Trump's fault"(one way or another) for having anything to do (including doing business) with SA. as if he were alone in that...even as he seriously faults what he calls the biggest cover up (seems he's wrong no matter what he says or does as far as the commentators here). Look, I'm not huge (or small) fan of Trump or SA, but I would like some decent journalism (as if), and if the NY Times wants to publish speculation and opinions then perhaps they should mark the articles as such? But I won't count on it. One speculation I don't expect to read in this paper is the possibility that this entire fiasco has been orchestrated by SA enemies of the Crown Prince to discredit him (as if there are not plenty within the country that would be happy to see him gone, not including those he has fired or imprisoned). Maybe that's the "biggest coverup" of all?
3
@Mark Shyres Oh my god, I fell off my chair laughing so hard. I am glad there was a Turkish rug to soften my fall!
Good to know you are not a small or big fan of Trump. And thanks for brightening my day, kinda gloomy out here. Hope you and your great wit are safe from the fires and that blamed private electrical company who caused so many of them.
1
The killers will be silenced so we will never know who in the upper echelon ordered the "hit", not a surprise at all. Maybe one of them will escape and give details but their story will be refuted as only lies to save their neck. Only winner here is the crown, not democracy, not human rights, not the people of Saudi. This story will go even colder once a big wad of cash is transferred to Turkey.
This is human nature. There is power, murder and intrigue. The only thing missing is sex in this equation. What will it be? will there be a confession that the deceased was sleeping with eh hem blah, blah. I am not putting who I think because it might put me at risk. That region is noted for violence, assassination, cruelty -such as stoning to death adulterers yet there are so many African, Asian, Russian Brazilian etc... prostitute working in this supposedly pious area
1
Bring back Shakespeare! There's another blood soaked Prince Hamlet, Julius Caesar... in the making.
Well OK, how about a Broadway musical: Jamal and Mohammed. Another West Side story with gangs, bone knives and Hatice Cengiz as Maria.
2
Ordering that people be killed for killing a person you ordered them to kill. How sick is Saudi Arabia...
8
I hope everyone who thought Trump was too easy on the Saudi’s is happy. . Now they are going to lop off some heads. The lesson is be careful about what you say.
1
One comment: Scapegoat
2
Will Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman be one of the “five” to go under the sword? Just asking
4
WOW !!!! Talk about leaving your subordinates out twisting in the wind !! This takes the cake ---
3
Yeah.....ok. I assume the Prince will also act as judge on this one as well.
5
No wonder Trump's mad at the Saudis, he no longer has an exclusive lock on "alternative facts."
8
When there is absolute power loyalty is a always one way street.
10
So, the Brutal House of Saud thinks it can redeem itself... by committing more brutality, public murder of 5 selected scapegoats! But, they are only playing to Trump and Ergodan, not to anyone who cares about judicial fairness!
4
The latest twist in Khashoggi's killing by the Saudi King can only satisfy Trump no one else. It is very simple that Khashoggi was brutally, inhumanely and barbarically killed by the agents of MBS and his body is melted in acid. These barbaric killers can not be left unpunished.
2
@rosy dahodi the problem is they will not kill the guys who did it, they will find five scapegoats and kill them instead
1
And yet the man who ordered it will walk free and we will continue to do business with a known murderer. Got to love the hypocrisy of the elites as laws and morals clearly do not apply to them but are imposed on us!
9
It is possible that MBA, did not giver orders to have him killed, but taken and returned to Arabia alive...but in the heat of battle he may have been killed or some were under orders to not return with him...no one has said that Mr. Khashoggi had or had not, any fighting skills...he might have surprised them, that he was not going to make his taken down easy...when he walked in and saw so many men, he might have taken down the ones closest to him...that might explain why someone came from behind and put a choke hold on him.
@william munoz Khashoggi was not a ninja, lol!
Then why bring an autopsy expert and a bone saw?
You might think of this as the Saudi version of tampering with evidence.
4
"The statement from the Saudis on Thursday also sought to reinforce previous claims that the team in Istanbul had acted without the consent of the kingdom’s top leadership, meaning King Salman and his son Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman."
Time for the little prince to move on - maybe locate some Yemeni school buses or help the so-called president 'deal' with the caged children.
Petro-barbarianism.
2
When I watch Trump talk, I often recall that there’s an idea called a “cold read,” related to Freud’s ideas about why people believe in telepathy and precognition, that nicely described how psychics and faith healers work.
Basically, you throw out a lot of guesses that roughly fit your audience real fast, and wait for one of the suckers to bite on one of them.
Then you forget about all the misses and focus on that one, since you can be pretty sure that the suckers who walk in the door believing in you will also forget them.
Voila, how could you have KNOWN! you have psychic powers! My God, it’s amazing!
I dunno why the dizzying procession of Saudi alibis reminds me of that.
Who could’ve predicted this one coming?
Pause for sarcasm.
MBS is a maniac and the kind Trump and Jared Kushner obviously feel comfortable enough to do doing business with.
Anyone read about the Saudis taking up residence in the Trump hotel in NYC? Officially putting the hotel in the black for the fiscal year when it had been in the red the last 3 quarters.
Yup.
5
The Saudis are "seeking" death penalties, sure, but will they FIND them even if they are hiding in plan sight? What rank bilge water this is. I for one will admit to being less than convinced each day by the POTUS who was going to make everything beautiful. He staggers as he swaggers, don't you agree? Disappointed. What has he handled smoothly? I honestly don't know if I would vote for him a second time.
Saudi Arabia is seeking the death penalty for people "suspected of involvement" in killing Khashoggi?
Did I miss the trial?
3
About as credible as believing in fairies. The Team was dispatched with explicit instructions. This was premeditated murder of a personal nature.
1
The Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman is either completely incompetent, a poor leader unable to command or he is a coward, untrustworthy and self-serving, willing to sacrifice other's lives for his mistakes and gain. Neither scenario recommends him as a partner.
You would have thought the west would have learned from its long history of supporting unstable, venal 'leaders' to do its bidding – it has always backfired. The short term gains and instant-gratification have only ever lined the pockets of a few, the rest of humanity is forced to continually pay the piper in some deadly form or other.
77
@angel98
It's not either/or. He is both a poor leader unable to command AND a self-serving coward. Just like Trump, really.
9
Sounds like you’re describing Trump.
8
@angel98
Quote: 'You would have thought the west would have learned from its long history of supporting unstable, venal 'leaders'.
Not so fast @angel98. If I recall correctly, you lot made trump as the leader of America quite recently.
4
Shouldn't be terribly difficult to determine who paid for the two aircraft that flew the Saudi murder squad to Turkey and back. The company that owns the aircraft is reported to frequently operate flights for the Saudi government.
3
So they are going to put 5 people to death to save the Prince's reputation? For some reason, this does not surprise me.
5
This appears to be the only way out for MBS.
However, it still doesn't explain why there were 15 guys, why the embassy was "closed", why all of the 15 were high ranking and some military officials, why MBS had a list of political targets, why the story kept changing, why there was a "body double" used as a decoy, why official passports and planes were used, why a forensic person was sent, why a bone saw was taken, why a clean up crew was used, why there is no body, why are we relying on the Saudi final report?
Ok, and that's just off the top of my head.
14
This is rapidly turning into a real-life version of the Bourne Identity.
"We will seek the death penalty!" ... On men who are not arrested, whose whereabouts are unknown, and who are allegedly contract killers.
At this point, I totally expect them to turn themselves in.
2
Does anyone really think this is the first and last barbaric act in what is a despotic run regime? The whole region is rife with these types of activities. I find it appalling. I also find it absolutely simple that folks are blaming Trump and Jared for stalling on a more sweeping and absolute response. The U.S. has been turning a blind eye over many, many presidencies. Get real, everyone. Brush up on our diplomatic history. And let's hear some real solutions.
1
According to the article: "...the Saudi prosecutor sought to portray the dismemberment as a spur-of-the-moment decision after an unintended killing."
There is other evidence that the killing had not been rehearsed. According to Kirkpatrick and Gall (17 OCT 2018): "Listen to music, he told them, as he donned headphones himself. That was what he did to ease the tension when doing such work, the doctor explained..." If they had rehearsed the killing, their training would probably have included this bit of advice.
According to the article: "Turkish officials have speculated that the Saudi agents dissolved it in acid..." This is unlikely, as it takes a lot of acid and a lot of time to dissolve a human body that way. I once worked at a plating company, and we used bathtub-sized vats of very strong hydroelectric and sulfuric acid. I remember a discussion at lunch one time where we speculated about whether a body could be dissolved in one of those tubs. The chemist assured me that it would take a lot more acid to dissolve a body in that way. It would be much quicker, easier and cheaper to incinerate it. Even though cremation is not legal in Turkey and there are no cremation facilities, it still be accomplished with simple tools and supplies.
Cite:
Kirkpatrick, David D. and Carlotta Gall. Audio Offers Gruesome Details of Jamal Khashoggi Killing, Turkish Official Says. N.Y. Times, 17 OCT 2018. https://nyti.ms/2QYd7km
The Trump administration must demand the extradition of the assassins to Turkey where an international investigation can take place.
Allowing the Saudi government to "investigate" and execute these men is unacceptable. It's giving them the green light to brutally murder journalists on foreign soil and then cover up the crime.
Any country that allows the Saudis to do this is endangering journalists and will have blood on their hands.
1
I'm sure their families will be financially taken care of. MBS will make sure of that. Typical of crime family.
This is beyond grotesque.
3
@J.B.
By comparison, when the trump syndicate gets locked up there will only be a couple of kids and the odd set of grandparents left to roam free
"... buy after he resisted they decided on the spot to kill and dismember him."
Why bring a bone saw and a forensics expert in the first place if the plan was to return him to the sandbox alive?
In the face of strong evidence, the evolving denials illustrate the clear intention of shielding the murderous prince, which, quite sadly, is likely to be a zero-sum game in the case of justice for the slain.
2
Wow! Who knew that a 50 year old journalist possessed such remarkable strength and athleticism when confronted by a 15 member gang of Saudi thugs. Had Stan Lee not departed recently, most likely he would be fashioning in the future his latest superhero character based upon the extra-human exploits of the tragically departed Mr. Khashoggi.
3
Who else would "the boss" be (except the Prince)?
1
This is what happens when the medieval kingdom meets the 21st century world.
4
Dissolving a body in acid is really not that simple. My back-of-an-envelope calculation is that you would need around 400 liters of concentrated sulfuric which is not an amount which could be handled safely in the front garden of the ambassador's residence. It might take several days to render the body down to a sludge and the people doing this will need respirators so they can breathe.
1
If MBS isn't one of the five, I don't even need to hear it.
Dissolved it in acid, eh? I seem to recall that was one of Saddam Hussein's favored techniques for disposing of a
body.
Both Trump and MBS consider the press the enemy of the State. MBS has his detractors killed, Donald has them expelled from the White House Press Corp.
They both are involved in collusion. The Saudi King has the men who botched the cover up put to death. Trump expelled Sessions who botched the cover up from the Justice Department.
It's startling how much more humane our Republic is than the autocratic dictatorship of Saudi Arabia. Here you lose your job for botching the cover up of the bosses crimes, there you get stoned to death.
2
Evidently the Crown Prince is surrounded with very immoderate lieutenants, who misinterpreted his vibes?
'The statement from the Saudis on Thursday also sought to reinforce previous claims that the team in Istanbul had acted without the consent of the kingdom’s top leadership, meaning King Salman and his son Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman.
That is a very good news!
If there are people in Saudi Arabia who can dare to act 'without the consent of the kingdom’s top leadership, meaning King Salman and his son Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman' - I predict that this is the end of the Saudi monarchy in SA.
'Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, in interviews, had credited Saudi Arabia with acknowledging the premeditated character of the killing as part of the Saudi investigation.'
Is 'credited' same as 'congratulated'?
1
One of the most basic rules of assassination, dispose of the assassins once the deed is done.
2
I just hope that their families will be amply compensated for their sacrifice on behalf of MBS.
Those families better use that blood money to go into hiding ASAP because the House of Saud will not let them live past 5-10 years after they’ve been paid off. If I was the House of Saud and I was already capable of murder, why would I expose myself to a blackmail situation that will continue for the next 50-100 years? It is cleaner to get rid of everyone once there is no more global scrutiny in 5-10 years.
1
MBS is cleaning house. Way to go. What say Jared?
1
If it truly was an unsanctioned-by-the-prince operation, all parties involved would be facing death or dead already.
It all makes you want to convert to solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, tidal and other green energy technology yesterday.
Let's bankrupt the world's corrupt petro-state dictators.
Oil pollutes the world and people's morals.
Time for decent people to pull the plug on the fossil fuel maniacs.
6
"The kingdom’s public prosecutor said the operation was not ordered from the top and had not been intended to leave the dissident dead."
When I attend an interrogation of a critic I always make sure there's a medical professional on my 15 man team packing a bone saw, you just never know how that might accidentally come in handy.
4
Calling for the death penalty is not the same as imposing the death penalty. These guys will skate.
3
@Barbyr Maybe not. The Saudis - our “ally” - need a scapegoat. Or five scapegoats. If we need such an ally, we’re in bad shape.
Killing = coverup.
Stating the obvious: if these men are killed, the world will take their deaths as part of an obscene coverup.
Some misdirected Saudis with power may be under the misapprehension that the world is hungering for vengeance, but what the world really wants is accurate information.
Killing these men, among other things, would be counterproductive.
75
It seems to me as if Western governments are working hard to shield MBS and Saudi Arabia. There is too much money at stake . The Bankers who control our politics are salivating over the idea of Aramco going public and all the other billions MBS projects will bring them.
The US and Britain cancelling the visas of the Saudis suspected of killing Mr Khashoggi is akin to Disneyland telling a suspected murderer in the US that his access to Disneyland has been cancelled.
Or Maybe it was a way to make sure these people can't leave Saudi Arabia for countries with a free press where they could testify against their boss.
12
@Chaks No need to invoke bankers. Both the Trumps and the Bushes have made lots of money with the Saudis.
Also note that they have never made any money in either Iraq or Iran.
I hope you weren't trying to blame Jewish bankers. Funny how you didn't mention oil companies...
1
'Mr. Khashoggi’s body has not been found. Turkish officials have speculated that the Saudi agents dissolved it in acid; ... '
So the team carried a bone-saw and buckets of acid on the plane? Is it safe to carry acid on the small plane? Isn't it against FAA/ICAO rules?
Or do Saudi consulates in foreign countries regularly store acid just in case it is needed to dissolve remainders of evidence?
2
Dreamer,
It's been reported that Khoshoggi's remains were taken to another Saudi location in Turkey after they removed him from the consulate.
That's probably where the remains were destroyed.
@Dreamer A private plane, flying between Saudi Arabia and Turkey, can ignore the American FAA and the various international regulatory bodies. The Saudis know that they can do as they wish. Money talks, ya know!
It would be an extreme exception (to the rule) if the Crown Prince did anything less than to punish scapegoats; even is they are guilty. The killers problem, as with any covert agency or country, is when their people are caught.
3
In another administration, the U.S. would unequivocally declare this to be a travesty. We would tell the Saudis, at least privately if not publicly, that we don't believe any of the concocted stories about this assassination. We would do so because we believe that extra-judicial killing is wrong. We would also back up these words with actions: cease arms sales, foreign aid, freeze diplomatic relations, etc. We would be sending a message to the Saudis, and to the world, that we stand up for the rights of people, especially a journalist living in our country, to be free from government tyranny.
But that would be in another administration. One that doesn't revoke access to the media to the White House, for example. Or accuse the media of being fake.
13
I predicted something like this several weeks ago. The easiest way to avoid any connection to the higher ups is to eliminate the subordinates. Then there is no longer anyone to be questioned by any independent body, or to implicate anyone else.
The bigger point is that the Trump administration does not care, and they enjoy the support of the Republican Party. Deniability is all that counts.
9
@Pensees I wonder how open Saudi trials are.
@Pensees Kinda reminds me of the story that the people who buried Genghis Khan were all killed, so that no one would know where Ghengis Khan was buried.
Of course they are seeking the death penalty. A dead man cannot speak evil of MBS.
Glad we're still living in the 12th century!
22
Also in the era of the Stalin show trials
So another five Saudis are going to lose their lives so as to cover up for the maniac prince.
Suppose that makes sense. Right Prince Jared ...?
26
Talk about throwing your underlings under a bus - wow.
19
The Crown Wizard is throwing the witnesses under the bus.
1
Boy, Trump really found a soul mate. Blame somebody else, even take their lives, to save your own skin.
24
I can hardly stand to see Mike Pompeo’s name associated with this. An American representative? He laughed in the presence of the Saudis afterward; no class, no reverence, no concern of seriousness or care.
In the meanwhile, Khashoggi’s fiancé was still wondering why Khashoggi never returned to her after going in that evil building.
And further in the meanwhile, Donald Trump just ducked out of the incident totally, blowing it off in his LaLaLand world of lies.
27
So wait.
The way they are going to atone for a murder is to murder new people? Because you are never going to convince me there is a single person being convicted who holds greater culpability than the Crown Prince.
So, we sacrifice 5 lives in effigy to the one already lost.
Barbaric. Sadistic. Backwards.
But then again, that's Saudi Arabia.
40
@GWE
They chose their careers.
This barbaric extrajudicial assassination, extremely gruesome, only came to light because it occurred in Istanbul.
Only think of what kinds of reprisals against enemies (real or imagined) actually take place inside KSA? With no one to investigate, remonstrate, challenge?
These are the kinds of goons that sign up to perform vivisection in political adversaries. While I agree with you that it is a misguided response, in broad terms, on the other hand, these are sadistic killers who have killed who knows how many other people?
Khashoggi's death has stripped away the mask and revealed the true essence of KSA. A chilling reminder, almost as potent as the tragedy of 2001...
Remind me again why we are friendly with this society?
4
America must joined Khashoggi's family in demanding his remains.
12
@JM. Futile demand, I suspect, given the lethal planning and efficiency with which this kill squad operated. The remains are surely putirifed from an acid bath, which the Saudis know nothing about of course, having contracted that part of the operation to a local Turkish ‘contact”.
Yes, The New York Post should create a cover page featuring a photo of MBS in full sheik drag with the headline, "WORST COVER UP EVER!"
13
"Saudi Arabia to Seek Death Penalty..."
In other breaking news:
Fire burns.
Water is wet.
Fat meat is greasy.
The Check is in the mail.
And the sun will rise in the east tomorrow morning.
10
@KNVB:Raiders I didn’t know any of that...
1
I'm not really surprised, with the Saudi history and all. Send 15 guys to kill someone badmouthing them, what could possibly go wrong? Nobody will care. Uh Oh, they noticed. Maybe if this guy dies in a car accident, yeah, that will work. Uh Oh, that didn't work, we had better execute some of the guys we sent. Or some lookalikes. Yeah, that will fix it.
13
@BorisRoberts. Here is how that is going to work: the Saudi secret service (the same ones that committed this execution) will pluck five Saudi citizens off the mean streets and put them in the public square with hoods over their heads, and behead them.
1
What new moral abomination is this?
So to cover up the fact that he ordered the grisly murder & dismemberment of one man, Jamal Khashoggi, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman will now have five more people put to death, his henchmen in this gruesome & depraved crime?
No one is fooled by this moral burlesque show.
Nor is there a shred of doubt about who is coaching bin Salman as he tries to convert a Saudi leadership succession-altering event into an exercise in political spin & damage control: a White House anchored by a President & son-in-law whose own moral compasses are broken, & who are trying desperately to help their personally-important Middle East lackey retain power when by any rational measure he must be removed (& ideally tried & punished).
Mohammed bin Salman is not "too big to fail" from the perspective of US policy nor even the Saudi dynasty: it is the Saudis who must have US support if their monarchy will survive; & King Salman is shrewd enough to know this & no doubt to have told his reckless son that if the crisis is not soon defused the son will be replaced.
Donald Trump & Jarad Kushner, once again confusing their private interests with those of state, are helping bin Salman orchestrate this charade & it must stop now, before five more human rights abuses are committed.
We stand at a moral & geopolitical crossroads, a moment when decency must defeat vile oligarchs & their ruthless calculations. Congress must draw line where our failed President won't.
29
So if King Salman and his son Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman are found guilty, they will be condemed like anyone else in Saudi Arabia?
23
@Darren McConnell Of course! The rule of law works very well in Saudi Arabia! Oh, wait....
How ironic. So does this mean the prince will get the death penalty too??
They must all stop thinking the rest of us are stupid and unaware.
16
So, I wonder if the death penalty will be sought for that one person most responsible for and who ordered the assassination of Mr. Khashoggi? Maybe not. Color me cynical but could this be nothing more than a set piece in a bad soap opera?
27
@John lebaron
Reminds me of that line in the movie Becket in which the king (Peter O'Toole) hints to his aides: "Will no one rid me of this Saxon priest?" (Richard Burton). Of course when the aides carry out his wishes and kill Burton, O'Toole has them arrested and executed!
@John Good call. I remembered the play, but I thought it was Shakespeare's "Henry II." In the movie Henry spends exiles and flays himself as self induced punishment. Wait for it.
For a dictatorship like Saudi Arabia, the whole business here seems like either an unusual lack of coordinated effort or a dangerous over-reach, or both. In any case, the exposure of continually changing accounts and plans is welcome advertisement of how monstrous a dictatorship can be.
14
@akhenaten2 "unusual lack of coordinated effort or a dangerous over-reach, or both" Actually just the usual Saudi incompetence at just about everything combined with their usual arrogance.
Oh how I miss the show trials of the 1930s through 1950s. Bad guys put on trial by bad guys for made up reasons.
5
Good! Justice prevails in this international incident, and now everyone should move on,..including the media.
@Moe Def
OK Donald.
14
Move on, really? Why not wait for the sixth seventh and eighth explanation from the saudis
8
@Moe Def. You mean show trials and executions of the men ordered by MSB to commit this murder, while MSB continues to order more murders? That “justice”? OK, nothing to see then, let’s all move on.
Is Prince Salman among those charged? If not then this is just nonsense...and we know this is just nonsense. The House of Saud is a criminal organization and should be shunned by the whole world.
23
“You don’t bring a bone saw to a negotiation “
80
@D. Ben Moshe
I don't know about that. We send Kushner to negotiate a lot of things....particularly with the Saudi's... Bonehead? Bone saw.. A matter of semantics...
4
Obviously it’s dangerous to follow orders from the Crown Prince. But it’s not surprising. If you follow orders to kill an opponent of a murderous absolute leader, why would you think he wouldn’t murder again to save himself?
The real question is why we - the USA - would support a murderer?
92
Oil.
15
@Mike Iker Habit?
1
@Mike Iker
We don't; Donald does.
2
This may be the ONLY time I will agree with Prez Trump: "Worst Coverup Ever." Do these guys do ANYTHING to look for holes in their ever-shifting explanations before they release them? Like...that a mortician traveling with a bone-saw was on hand for the event? So please tell us, what was his INTENDED diplomatic duty, before things supposedly ran off the rails?
13
The big question now is whether the five to be executed are the five at the top the 15-team who are most likely to inculpate MBS, or the five at the bottom of the team who are most likely not to have any supporters in the regime? The Saudis are obviously not telling us everything!
17
Five heads served up to the world on a platter to appease it is just in time for Thanksgiving. What will the MBS offer us to wash it down with for dessert? Always have to kill something to celebrate makes me sick.
12
@John Doe,
I would be afraid to even ask what drink he would provide.
I wonder if this was a suicide squad mission, where the
participants were told in advance they may have to pay with their lives to cover this up? Or if they will just kill some unfortunate body doubles; we already know they use these. The cold cynicism the "Prince" displays is truly contemptible.
1
I don’t know which we should detest more about the Crown Prince. Is it that he ordered the murder and coverup of a dissenting citizen? Nothing new about that. Or is it that he will blame and execute some of his inner circle just to save face. As Americans, we will have to decide whom we align with in good conscience.
29
@Nick Benton Or is it that he's our pal, not just of the Trump family but also the monied class who either showed up at his "symposium" a month after the deed, or scratched their heads puzzling over their decision whether to cancel their RSVP. All we need now is Dick Cheney calling a news conference to disclose that the Iranians did it.
If the Saudi story were true, heads would literally be rolling by now, as the hoodwinked prince unleashed his anger and dispensed traditional Saudi justice (public beheading). Trump was right about one thing: this is the worst cover up ever!
Who would have believed this was possible? MBS was here in the US meeting with corporate and political leaders just this year, he has opened cinemas in Riyadh, and he is letting women drive. Clearly an enlightened, compassionate leader!
But there was that little internal problem where MBS locked his relatives and prominent businessmen in the Ritz until they forked over their billions to him in a shakedown. Oh yes, and MBS did kidnap the Lebanese prime minister. And wait, didn't MBS lead Saudi into the Yemen war, a humanitarian disaster?
Maybe our journalists (even those with the NY Times) and politicians should have seen something like this coming...but they didn't wake up until it was a journalist who was dismembered. They are seeing more clearly now.
13
@Unconventional Liberal
You should read the NYT magazine lengthy report "How the War in Yemen became a Bloody Stalemate" by their journalist Robert Worth and Lynsey Addario (photos).
I listened to the Freshair interview with Walsh last week and he had severe reservations about returning to and traveling widely throughout the country under the current circumstances, but did it anyway so that people knew.
The Saudi coverup has been rife with dissembling, obvious lies, and absurd explanations. Giving the death penalty to five men while protecting the Crown Prince is the behavior of the worst kind of dictatorship. For all of Trump's posturing about bad Saudi behavior, I expect he and Kushner are watching carefully to see if their friend can wiggle out of this. If so, it's another reprehensible action made possible in part by Trump, as well as a lesson for Trump in how to get rid of critics. If that sounds too extreme, remember that he routinely encourages his crowds to chant "Lock her up." It's a short step from that to "Hang her up."
22
Unless one of those 5 is Bin Salman himself this nothing more than yet another human rights violation committed by the Saudi regime. People need to stay angry about this story. Donnie has a major financial and social interest in the well-being of the Saudi Royal Family. He will try to sweep this under the rug so he can continue to profit from their atrocities. It is our duty as Americans to not just let this story whimper off and be forgotten like so many of other disgusting things this administration has done.
26
Ugh. As others have already commented, this is vile beyond comprehension. The crown prince ordered Khashoggi's murder. Now that the plot and the killers have been exposed, the crown prince has essentially ordered the execution of those who carried out his orders, both to a) try to save face with the international community by trying to claim the killers were rogue actors, and b) ensure the killers can never share with anyone the truth -- that they were, indeed, acting under orders of the crown prince.
This is the same crown prince that Trump and Kushner have been fawning over -- likely, in order to further enrich themselves via secret business dealings with the crown prince and members of his inner circle.
Jan 3, when the Democrats officially become in control of the House, cannot come soon enough. There are numerous rocks to turn over. Much moral and ethical unsavoriness and, more than likely, illegality can be expected to ultimately be revealed.
45
This is a different level of throwing people under the bus.
"Hey guys, remember that murder we ordered you to carry out? We're going to have you executed for doing it."
42
@David...I bet that they would have executed them all...so there was no one to talk, one way or the other.
1
If you believe Prince Bin Salman had no knowledge of the Khashoggi murder and indeed didn't order it himself, well then I have some swamp land at tremendous prices in Alabama for you! Prince Salman sounds alot like Trump and his supporters sound alot like Trump supporters. Gullible as all get out!
12
@Richard conrad...it's possible he did not order it...lot of Saudis have a big opinion of them self...one might have thought to curry favor with MBA...the fact that someone of lower rank, said tell your" Boss"...and did not use the phase "Prince" makes me believe that another higher up gave orders to take care of the problem...
It has gotten impossible for me to believe anything that comes out of Saudi. Trump started with alternative facts, Facebook tried to hide the truth and we in Alabama think putting the Ten Commandments up in public place will cure our problems.
Does anyone believe in telling the truth anymore?
9
Names & official positions please of the 5 people for whom the Saudi Arabia’s public prosecutor is requesting the death penalty. It's doubtful that the killing of Jamal Khashoggi could have happened w/o the consent of the Crown Prince. Seems more likely that these people are being "sacrificed" to end this sorry contradictory saga. And given these 5 people's ultimate "destiny," why hasn't one or more of them given information as to the whereabouts of Mr. Khashoggi's remains.
14
@Elaine...we have no idea if all them are sitting alone in hotel rooms being watched by guards , who are waiting for the word, what to do with them.
More blatant lies! More summery executions! Please Google the Constitution of S. Arabia, about 3 pages. You will understand why it is the most vicious country on the planet. Terrifying for any one who dares to think, let alone speak up.
33
Where are the remains of Jamal Khashoggi? Why isn’t that information given to his family, the Trump Administration and the public? Surely after the 18 people arrested have been questions for a month the Saudi police officials have been able to figure this out. Why hasn’t the Trump Administration been demanding the answer to that question? Khashoggi was, after all, an American resident. Is there a possibility that the Saudi government wants to keep his remains as a further punishment, as a warning to others who might dissent. According to the European Organisation for Saudi Human Rights the Saudis have detained or secretly buried the bodies of over 30 persons executed or killed by the government. There’s a Moveon-housed petition at thestruggle.org calling for Saudi authorities to return the remains of Khashoggi to his family.
So there will be a death penalty for 5 people. Will these people be named? How about naming the people arrested? Will there be trials? Will there be lawyers? Will any of the 5 slated for execution be heard from before they are executed? Is this whole process a matter of working out a script to protect those on top? Why is the Trump Administration so powerless in this whole affair? After a month of changing stories why doesn’t it demand that some U.S. Justice Department officials be allowed to go to Saudi Arabia and be involved in the investigation
24
@Stanley Heller. Good questions, but please note that Khashoggi was NOT a legal permanent resident of the United States. He was here on a journalist visa.
@Stanley Heller...they can not allow the men in question to be questioned...other wise you have to kill the questioners...and their family and it real starts to snowball.
1
Saudi Arabia is the land of fairy tales and brutal 'justice.' The elderly king's ruling son can basically do as he wants with impunity. Such is autocracy. And why not compound one murder with the murder of five others?
Although 'following orders' to commit an atrocity isn't supposed to be an excuse, there's no guarantee these five are the most culpable even in that sense. And, based on reporting, no one outside the kingdom should believe attempts to deflect the ultimate responsibility from the ruling family.
Quite a pickle. A brutal regime attempting to move a few centuries ahead is still left a millennium behind the western world. Its outward facing diplomacy, based on tribalism, evangelical Wahhabism, and royal spite, is murderous and despicable.
If not for Saudi money and power politics vis a vis Iran, this would be a simple diplomatic problem for Western democracies. We would encourage further modernization, progress towards democracy, and the transparent rule of just laws. We definitely wouldn't accept scapegoating and public executions as a face saving maneuver.
It's time for the Trump administration to take a principled stand.
19
@Michael Tyndal
'It's time for the Trump administration to take a principled stand. '
They have, it is all about the Benjamins.
5
'Saudi Arabia’s public prosecutor said on Thursday that he was requesting the death penalty for five people suspected of involvement in the killing of the Saudi dissident Jamal Khashoggi at the country’s consulate in Istanbul.'
I hope and pray that the 'five' does not include the brave new prince, MBS!
3
This coverup will surely include considerable untraceable payment to the families of the perpetrators, you know, just to acknowledge their "sacrifice" to MBS. What a world.
8
Deplorable! And even worse is the current administration 's glossing over the facts that are known.
9
As the old Soviet joke goes, the leadership pretends to tell us the truth and we pretend to believe them.
Any recent word from the White House on their position? Has the state of the coverup improved?
18
The Saudi’s were caught red handed in a murder! The denials came fast and furiously to protect the “boss” who ordered the murder. In order to protect the “boss” many of the suspects were identified and incarcerated. No one really believed their repeated stories of how it was a rouge element in the Kingdom. However, in an autocracy like this, is it believable that the crown prince wouldn’t have known what was going on in one of his own embassy’s? Now in order to convince the world that the murder was perpetrated by rouge elements the Kingdom is charging the operators of the murder and asking for the death penalty. We will soon hear from our president that there was no way possible that the crown prince was responsible because he wouldn’t kill his own operators. Please, the crown prince is playing the long game and there are plenty more operators available in the Kingdom. The goal here is to protect the “boss”.
10
First Act: charge the 5 under Saudi laws. The case could drag on for years. Later, when the interest on khashoggi has died down, the 5 may get acquitted. In the mean time, they are out on bail which means all is good as far as the five is concerned.
4
Each time the Saudi explanation changes a little more. The world is not dumb!
9
Where is the body? What was the motive? This can only come from the top. Did Trump know anything about this plot? I heard that there was intel rumblings, was this poor man notified?
Trump doesn't murder people--we think, but he is clearly lacking in empathy as people are dying while fleeing their homes in cars. How far off can he be when you're that cold?
10
Mohammed Bin Salman is not a Saudi Arabian leader with an agenda to modernize the kingdom.His order to make Mr.Kashoggi disappear was straight out of medieval times.People should be asking how many more enemies he has.He has already put his relatives on notice not to cross him in any way.Americans should not greet and do business with this dangerous autocrat.
21
Seriously, even under the crown’s version the order was to kidnap someone in a foreign country who was a US based journalist to stop him from writing for a US publication. And with what end in mind once this man was brought back to SA? The kidnapping order may be slightly less bad than a murder order, but not much. It’s still clearly unacceptable not to mention not credible in the least given the bone saw brought along for the occasion.
9
Saudi Arabia's public prosecutor states that a 15-man team was sent to kidnap Kashoggi, but the team decided to kill him. Who gave the order to forcibly return (kidnap) Kashoggi to Saudi Arabia? Also, what is the explanation for sending along a team member skilled in using a bone saw? So...Saudi Arabia now wants to execute five persons who were sent by someone within the Saudi government, but failed in their illegal kidnap attempt, and instead killed the victim?
5
@RW Who sends a bone saw to a kidnapping?
10
@RW
But even if we assume that they sent along a 'forensic' expert to butcher the man's body, hopefully after he was properly dead, why a 'bone-saw'?
Is it that much neater and friendlier than a regular butcher's knife, with a heavy 4+inch-wide blade? Was there a weight restriction on their small plane? May be it is not 'halal'? I understand that they could not carry an electric band saw that I see being used all the time in the butcher's shops where we buy 'halal' goat meat locally; that would have been too clumsy to lug around from the airport to the consulate.
And, finally, why blame poor innocent MBS? The poor guy probably does not even know that an enemy of the people (i.e., a despicable journalist) was killed in one of his consulates in a foreign land, which is a place outside Saudi Arabia.
@drsolo...maybe they were planning to make the doctor the bad guy.
I sincerely wonder if the 5 people pegged for execution are the ones who are guilty.
7
@childpsych: someone on TV said only one will be selected, be convicted and die, his family will be amply rewarded, this is how things are done there.
8
@drsolo...NO!NO!...they have to kill more that.
Maybe they should stop with the whole death penalty thing. Isn't that mentality what lead to this in the first place? And I am doubtful that the penalty is about the killing and more of a political move. They haven't learned the lesson that killing is not a solution.
4
I bet those 5 people are regretting becoming lackeys now they have become scapegoats for the crimes of the price.
4
This is a superbly pithy comment - carrying a bonesaw wherever they go, just in case.
5
So if it was to be “just” a kidnapping, that would have been no problem at all?
11
@Ilya Shlyakhter… not if he had any fighting skills or not, and was not going be taken alive by them...and some thing or someone can always get out of control in a fight...you have only to ask police officers who used deadly force, what happen?.
We are not given the names of those condemned to death. No doubt they are the lowest level of this gang of fifteen assassins- not those who traveled about America and Europe with MBS. Revealing their names would further defy belief, and make the Saudi so-called "inquiry" seem even more obviously a sham.
This is an attempt to cover MBS with a gauzy veil of deniability, so that "respectable" people can appear with him in public, continue to make money from him, and not be condemned for it. The international community- at least those who care about decency, the rule of law, free speech and human rights- should ostracize him now and forever. We must not forget Jamal Khashoggi.
22
Of they are so they don't implicate anyone in the Royal Family. We all knew it would go this way when we heard the phrase "rogue elements". The only surprise is that they are getting a trial first.
10
Always carry a bone saw in case you commit an unplanned “spur of the moment” murder? I don’t know what is scarier, MBS ordering this or undisciplined Saudi hit teams running amok in Saudi consulates. I think any country with a Saudi consulate should now require a local police presence (paid for by the Saudis) 24/7 at the front doors to ensure everyone who enters gets out alive.
Question- who at the consulate alerted MBS that Kashogghi was coming in for marriage documents?
15
@Alexandra Hamilton
These kinds of embassy appointments are usually made in advance.
Perhaps more to the point, has there been a sufficient explanation as to why Gina Haspel, CIA head, had to fly immediately to Ankara in the wake of the news?
@Alexandra Hamilton The bone saw was brought because the doctor loves Turkish halvah and the best way to cut it is with a fine tooth bone saw. Everybody knows that.
Ben Fountain's Book BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY BURN AGAIN, speaks of the Fantasy Industrial Complex in regard to the tsunami of misinformation, conspiracy and lies that suffuse our culture. The Prince and Trump's administration, playing on the gullibility of the masses by disseminating daily fantasies to hide the inner workings of oligarchy.
15
The Saudi' have a new term for what the mob terms, "cleaners," ---its the courts.
9
Team of 15 assassins sorry "interrogators" show up at their embassy, is allowed access and use of their facilities, with no orders from the top.
Sounds like Saudi Arabia has been taking press notes from the Trump administration.
14
Here we are again, with the rogue operation explanation again. Oh, it was just the equivalent of some low level coffee boys, probably volunteers who barely knew MBS. Surely not his poet and his bodyguard. Those two henchmen will live to kill more of his enemies, especially anyone who dares to question the ever evolving story and the death penalty for a few, apparently nonessential members of the death squadron.
6
@Njlatelifemom...in my opinion, 15 men, tell me that it was to be a kidnap...you don't need that many to kill, or be witness to the crime.
This will give Trump all the wiggle room he needs, ensuring that when it comes to the Saudis, it's business as usual.
9
The cover up continues. MBS and the Saudi government have been lying about this from day one. MBS is the person responsible and no justice is served without him receiving the blame and punishment. But there will be no justice and the US has been busy sweeping the whole thing under the rug in order to keep the military hardware deal alive. Another disgrace in a long line of Trump disgraces.
11
When you work for an absolute monarch, death may occur unexpectedly and absolutely.
25
I do not believe it for one second. I lived and worked in Abu Dhabi for 5 years until 2014. I know the culture. They were completely blind sided by this global uproar. As far as they are concerned this was an internal or family matter that they would handle as they chose. The fact they did the dirty deed in another country is the problem. Inside Saudi no one would have known. Just another Royal under house arrest or detainment. The Crown Prince ordered this. There is no other way. The fact that the people who carried out this mission will also be killed is horrible. They had no choice though. Either way their lives are at the whim of the Crown Prince. The culture there is so different then ours. Lying is a huge part of their lives. It is rampant throughout the Arab Culture. And taking care of family matters is entirely family matters. Death included. There is no court of law when it comes to this. It is family law. Honor. Face. Will they change? Not in this life time or anytime soon. Khashoggi knew they would come after him. Why he thought he would be safe in the Turkish Consulate amazes me. I agree that now that the spotlight is on the Royal's other dissidents are much safer. I do not mean to be totally negative. There is a wonderful side to the Arab world. I made many friends, though at a distance, I was very safe and welcome there. You just need to be able to deal with the constant lies they all tell to fit the moment.
55
These are not people living in some isolated country. The people involved know the world and all the things that all of the world knows. They choose to ignore the spiritual lessons of not just Islam but all of the spiritual lessons of mankind. This behavior is deliberate and indifferent to the sanctity of life to serve some arrogant man’s lack of patience and lack of seriousness about the consequences of his behaviors.
5
This is a complete clean-up... Now they are going to kill MBS`s collaborators who did the killing for him; so there won`t be any evidence pointing to him in the future.
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@KLRJ243
There were 15 people directly involved plus the Consul who told them not to do it in his office. A complete whitewash is not possible even with a bloodbath.
2
I guess that they just carry a bone saw along on all their trips.
It's just a sort of handy thing to have around when you are traveling.
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@Andrew A. Clark
Maybe they sent someone to a hardware store to purchase a saw after they "accidentally" killed him?
11
@Andrew A. Clark Looks as though the TSA will have to add bone saws to their list of forbidden items - right after toe nail clippers. It might help prevent accidental deaths... . How many versions of the story are we up to by now?
Also heard of the recording - "boss, do you want me to bring the bone saw back for another job?"
26
Why bring a forensic saw to an abduction?? Everything Saudi Arabia has so far done and said insults our intelligence.
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@Maki Miro Quesada
Yes, but the execution of some scapegoated underlings will give comfort as well as cover to world leaders concerned about their ratings. "See? The Saudis did something. What more do you want? Look how low your gasoline prices are! You're welcome!"
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@Ed L.
The world leaders may find comfort. The world does not.
3
It is ridiculous that the Saudi Government wants to kill more people to cover up a murder. Even Trump called it the worst cover up in history since it’s inconvenient for him. He doesn’t care about Khashoggi, other people the royal family kills, and especially not the people killed by the weapons that the US sells them.
The best I think we can hope for, especially now that Republicans don’t control all the branches, is to not allow these weapons deals. They are immoral.
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@Sarah Republicans choosing not to sell things for a profit?
6
Presumably it's the 5 who report directly to the prince that are to be executed.
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@APS I assume it's the five most willing to testify.
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@APSFringe benefits of the job! This will permit DJT and Jared to still be buddies with MBS. Problem solved!
7
@APS Or the five who drew the short straws and were then forced to 'confess'.
1
In no government or modern hierarchy of any kind would one not lay fault at the foot of who is in charge. However I look at this, the government of the house of Saud, led by the king and prince, are to blame for their governments inexcusable actions by negligence, malice or incompetence! Why we don’t subvert their rule rather than doing business with them must be beyond me.
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@John White The oil, presumably. And the getting back of some of our money that bought that oil?
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@John White Trump put all bets on the House of Saud for his own self-serving ends: trying to isolate Iran and Qatar, and bombing and laying siege to other countries like Yemen. Kushner, upped the ante by being de facto US Saudi Ambassador, keeping the details within the two families. They have much to lose, personally.
2
Well if the murder was not premeditated, why seek the death penalty? Ahhhh yes, to be sure those found guilty are permanently silenced...
30
I'll believe the Saudis are serious when MBS is executed. Until then it's all smoke and mirrors. As for Bolton and Pompeo, maybe they should keep listening to the tape of Khashoggi's murder -- you know, the one Turkey provided to the CIA -- until they're convinced that the Saudis don't make very good allies.
32
The idea that these men who came to kill Mr. Khashoggi were not on order from the King of Saudi Arabia and his son MBS is just preposterous.
69
So all this time to present a novella of ever changing explanations ends up in death for those who clearly were performing a preconceived act of murder. Anyone who believes that these murderers who showed up with a bone saw intended to return Khashoggi to Saudi Arabia alive is as gullible as it gets. Absolutely nothing here speaks of a kidnapping gone bad. This is the result of ruthless despotic murderers and their inability to deal with criticism at any level.
43
So the Saudi’s intend to murder the princes operatives? For what exactly, Doing their jobs or getting caught? No one in Washington wants this tied to the current leadership, they’ve got much at stake since trump tied his administration to this particular prince. Meanwhile the genocide by starvation and disease goes on in Yemen. Wealth buys you pretty much everything and everyone in Washington and the Saudi’s have plenty of it. No wonder so many Americans are cynical about politics in general and Washington in particular. Trump is the king of influence buying but the ground was plowed long before he came to sow seeds of division and hate.
20
So the Saudi chief prosecutor alleges a "rogue" operation his country has already tried and failed to convince the world is behind Khashoggi's horrific murder in the Saudi consulate. And the autopsy doctor in the group just happened to pack his bone saw for the quick trip to Turkey. For what? In case he might be called on to cut up Khashoggi's murdered corpse? Give us a break, Saudi Arabia! No one believes anything coming out of that country. Some of us still remember 9/11 and the Saudi government's support for terrorists, and wouldn't trust anything they say because it always seems to be lies and obfuscation.
19
It's terrifying that, in this day and age, death can be so entirely arbitrary.
Whether it's the prince's henchmen being put to death for a murder that was recently denied for political reasons-or approving of open, easy access to assault weapons that kill thousands every year in our country-the right wing of this world clearly does not value life.
21
More smoke and mirrors?
4
So it’s OK to kidnap? Kidnapping frequently results in death. I suppose these “kidnappers” were working on their own? Maybe they thought they’d get a lot of money or perhaps curry favor with the King. Nope. The Saudis are hoping to put to death the only witnesses to this horrible murder, let time pass, and continue to terrorize the world.
13
@Kathy M...the fact it was 15 men, tells me it was to be a kidnap...you don't need that many to kill...but what if a couple of men were lackeys of, maybe one on the rich powerful men, that the prince had taken hostage to pay him money...they could buy off a couple the men to create a problem for the prince...
Trump and Bolton need the Saudis for their grand their strategy against Iran. Consider the humanitarian crisis in Yemen, 9/11 and now the Prince’s willingness to murder five loyal supporters. There is real evil in the world, and we are arming its representatives.
The end does not justify the mesns.
39
The Kingdom didn’t anticipate the public outcry, rebuke of official statements and media scrutiny.
9
It's entirely possible that this will culminate in five poor prisoners, incarcerated for some more modest crime, being sacrificed in the name of the Kingdom while the actual perpetrators end up with a villa and a pension in some out-of-the-way corner of the country. And after a suitable interval MBS will ascend - King Salman will abdicate if he knows what's good for him.
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@Andrew...No...the King will not abdicate...everyone who knows anything, will be silenced...one way or another.
1
It has become increasingly difficult to believe any pronouncements from Saudi Arabia. This is a great disappointment because there was hope that the Crown Prince was an agent of change. Observing this, any hopes for meaningful change are dashed. And the long term fallout may be significant. What will happen in Iran? What will happen in Yemen? What will happen to suppressed Freedom Loving people in Saudi Arabia? “What a fine mess”.
9
Does the Saudi Arabia government think the rest of the world is stupid?
This move by Saudi Arabia can be summed up simply as: to save the prince or the royal family from being declared a murder, their hired guns need to be executed. This solves 2 problems: it falsely tries to give Mr. Khashoggi “justice” and it prevents the hired guns from testifying against the real murderers because they will be dead.
Will the hired killers “take one for the team” or will they reveal who hired them to do the kill? Given the evil and ruthless nature of some in the Saudi Arabia royal family, I wouldn’t be surprised if the hired guns were threatened with: if you reveal who gave the order to do the kill, we will kill you and all who you love.
Note to the hired guns: you know they intend to kill your loved ones after they take care of you, so why not tell the truth before you get murdered? That way, at least the journalists and the international courts will have some bread crumbs to chase after the real murder.
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No they are intelligent enough to realize that a big bully (US) is a “friend” of Saudi
12
@Tony Or will the hired killers be "pronounced" dead for their crimes but actually put in the Saudi equivalent of a witness protection program (alive but sequestered and hidden away).
3
“Dissolved in acid” is a good metaphor for what’s happened to Trump’s presidency. He insults our allies, and licks the boots of Putin, the Saudi princes, North Korea, and any other murderous tyrant he can find.
Murdered by a gang of ruthless men, who then turn on each other: the Saudi journalist, and American democracy.
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That’s one way to get rid of those who could testify against the true culprit. I’m sure trump is nodding his head in approval and wishing he had the same option here. Americans - beware!
42
Just where is that last straw?
24
There is no last straw. There's never been a line too far to cross for this administration. Whether the targets were Muslims, Mexicans, any non White immigrants, blacks, women, Democrats, workers, his own team, or the American public in general, there's been no pushback to any of Trump's transgressions. That is America's greatest shame.
17
Either completely hidden or blocked by wealth and power. Like our US political system where money & power fused to leading-edge 18th century theories of a distributed republic 'democracy' protected by the elite to selectively remove voting rights of any group, instant creation of a 2-party system blocking diverse input and allow bizarre anti-democratic anacronysms like the Electoral College. Political apportionment, where white rural power dominates & feeds slavery resulting in serious national crises: Bush V. Gore, Trump V. Clinton, Prohibition. Lifetime appointed judges with doctrinal "originalist" interpretation of the Constitution demanding $=Speech, Men<>Women, Corporation=Person, 2nd Amendment=universal right to possession of murder tools, secret courts & secret evidence: all false and clearly contrary to our Constitution. While we all appear to tolerate race-based incarcerations, race-based murder by cops, "for profit" prisons, court ordered executions and states defiance of unambiguous decisions (even after civil war) mumbling "stare decisis" granting state control of private health choices of women by men. Add religion funded through donations deductible from income, organized cover-ups by institutional churches, laws defining workers rights to organize magically modified by older unrelated purpose, "free speech" hatred and violence with no private recourse against racist slander (birtherism), torture violating Federal law & treaties, national exceptionism....
4
@marksjc: Huh? Say that once more, this time in English.
Incredible, before the Saudi kingdom butchers these 5 people it would be great if an independent agency like Amnesty international send their lawyers to interview them, The whole scheme and Justice does not meet any smell test . Looks clearly like silencing witnesses. This is just a horrible example for Nationalist and Dictators around the world. They can just conduct extra judicial killings and execute the henchmen they ordered to carry it out. Very Evil
259
With the tacit approval of Washington. Bi-partisan.
5
Another problem the Saudi's believe they can kill their way out of.
"Judging by the tenor of much that has been said about Saudi Arabia since September 11, quite a few people seem to think something similar should be done with the present-day Saudis.
In Congress, on American television, and in print, their country has been portrayed as a sort of oily heart of darkness, the wellspring of a bleak, hostile value system that is the very antithesis of our own.
America's seventy-year alliance with the kingdom has been reappraised as a ghastly mistake, a selling of the soul, a gas-addicted dalliance with death."
Rodenbeck, Max (October 21, 2004). "Unloved in Arabia (book reviews)". The New York Review of Books. 51 (16).
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It's hard for me to believe that there was no advance knowledge of this dastardly deed of the royal family in Saudi Arabia.
13
Will the death penalty apply to all involved, including MBS?
Is Turkey willing to admit that JK’s fiancée was the bait to bring him to the Saudi embassy in Istanbul?
What about Gina Haspel’s involvement? Why the need to rush to Ankara in the wake of the murder?
9
This is out of the Trump playbook. When needs be lie, lie, lie.
If you have to get rid of and turn on people you've hired even if it means killing them it's ok.
19
1. You need not broadcast to the world your domestic affairs of crime and justice. That has always been your sovereign business, and none of ours.
2. Five martyrs for the cause sounds like a good round number. Who amongst us would be dissatisfied? Will they draw straws?
3. Why did it take five Saudi operatives to strangle one man who came armed with a pen to sign marriage documents? Are you sure it wasn't just one overzealous patriot?
4. Kidnapping an American-newspaper reporter - that's a crime too. So this posse of 15 arrived with criminal intent. The only question is, what was the premeditated crime?
2
This assassination is like something out of the movie "Office Space."
We learned several days ago that Saudi government officials were asking American private sector security groups to help them commit assassinations. They literally tried to outsource the assassination to Americans. It wouldnt have surprised me if their first step was to look up "assassination" in the dictionary.
Then when they do the deed they choose the most complicated and over the top method. Heres a tip Saudi Arabia, 1 man with a gun is all it takes. Hiring an impersonator to walk around Istanbul is not clever in the least.
All this has demonstrated is that Saudi Arabia is out of their league in literally everything they do. American oil and gas professionals run Aramco. American military advisers hold their hands to help them fight in Yemen. We were about to do their dirty work for them too except even our greediest mercenaries wouldnt do it.
To kill his own assassins MBS shows he is desperate to cling to power which means more than ever it is necessary for the western world to come together and push him out.
80
@Joe
Your observations are a case study in running a country with family politics above meritocracy.
As immorally disgusting these murders are our scruples go straight out the window as soon as we stop by the next gas station.
12
Oh thank you for clearing this up for us. And here we thought that the Crown Prince was involved in this hideous murder. I guess he really doesn’t know what’s going on in his kingdom after all.
21
It probably is the penalty for getting caught for the act rather than for committing it.
20
@Rajesh Behl
You are so right -- and the notion that Saudi Arabia (i.e., MBS) is "seeking" the death penalty is 'a killer' (and about as 'funny' as the fact that trump just wants to move on and 'close' those 'agreements-to-agree' re Saudi $$ and 'our' most 'sparkling' death-and-destruction equipment).
6
Nobody believes you Saudi Arabia. Everyone knows it comes from the top. Instead of being smart and recognize it, they decide to kill some more people.
What a bad leadership in this country.
59
And the top murderer will go unpunished.
183
@William Doolittle we can punish them by divesting from stocks that the saudis are invested in .
6
The five men to be prosecuted are disposible assets. They did their deed at the behest of the crown prince, and unfortunately for them and the prince they were clearly identified as assassins. They are being left as the “fall guys”, or those left holding the proverbial bag.
It would not surprise me if part of this prosecution deal includes large sums of money given to the family members of the soon to be executd who, behind closed doors, are considered honorable martyrs.
16
@Greg
The five they are going to pick have probably never been to Istanbul.
4
So, the Saudis are going to seek the death penalty for the Crown Prince. Wow, that’s amazing. (Sarcasm!)
9
@Glevine
let's not hold our collective breath on that one.
(Sarcasm 2)
4
This is what happens when you follow a dictator’s orders.
18
While the people who ordered it run free and can order up more death for their "enemies". We can't really believe that MBS will order his personal bodyguard and other servants to die based on what he asked them to do. So these folks facing the death penalty are some cooked-up look-alikes to try to match up to the footage and photos. Yep it's all just that blatant and devious, and MBS will get away with it.
26
@Debra
I must say that I find the scenario you describe a little hard to believe, and I mean no offense.
But, when I consider who currently occupies the White House?
Do you think the doubles will be wearing any makeup and will they be drugged prior to execution?
Do you think the executions will be timed so as not to garner too much attention?
How long do you think it will take before Trump tweets the Saudi's congratulations on their swift abd definitive action?
9
There is one flaw to this explanation: the role a forensics expert had if Khashoggi was supposed to be taken alive back to Saudi Arabia. It is not logical.
178
Nothing about the case is logical until you look to see who benefits from his death. Then it all makes sense, in it’s own twisted way.
10
what a horrible thing but the new normal for us is that we just move on to the next mind blowing, unbelievable event. I don't know about everyone else, but I'm numb.
22
Five, huh? That's the magic number of accomplice executions necessary to absolve MBS? I doubt that Trump cares how many in total have forfeit their lives, just so long as his and Jared's BFF in Riyadh is "cleared" in the "official" Saudi account.
Trump is looking to the future. Once he leaves (or is run out of) Washington, he sees the Saud family as his key to real wealth, not just the penny-ante billion or two (if that) he claims at present. In order to snuggle up to the Sauds then, his support of them in their 'time of need' now is essential.
14
From one extreme to another. The reality is that the Saudi government has absolutely no consideration for human life, regardless of the circumstances.
215
You just have to love this -- the Crown Prince first orders the murder of a reporter, and then, in a cynical attempt at denial, seeks to cover his trail by murdering the cretins who followed his orders.
It's a lesson in the hazards of supporting those with the personality of a sociopathic dictator, and is the same in kind if not in magnitude from Donald Trump's habit of discarding those who are most loyal to him when it serves his interest to do so.
Thank God we haven't yet reached the point where murder becomes an option for our leaders. Unfortunately, at the rate Trump and his lackeys are dismantling the safeguards against dictatorship, we are moving in that direction.
This country is like the proverbial boiling frog, with each incremental attack on democracy and the rule of law moving us towards the point of no return.
442
@Josh Hill And of course Trump will believe this fairy tale and praise them for it.
20
@Josh Hill I think murder is currently an option for our leaders. What do you think drone strikes are? How many people has the CIA murdered? How many people have died in our detention or torture systems.
23
@Josh Hill. Trump subtly encouraged people to assassinate Hillary Clinton during the 2016 campaign. He expressed no concern over the pipe bombs that were sent to democratic leaders including two former democratic presidents, other than that it broke republican election momentum.
No, Trump does not order murder of his enemies, but he doesn't discourage it either. We are not that far from the Saudis as we'd like to think.
81