Great a 14th century mentality combined with 21st century technology what could possibly go wrong...
7
I am sorry to say this, but Mohammed bin Salman. and Sheikh Mohammed of the UAE are stunning examples of what happens when you have tremendous oil wealth mixed with individuals barely two generations removed from barbaric bedouin tribal leaders living out of tents in the great Arabian peninsula. They feel as though they can exist as they have for generations because they have a right to. They will never be the equals of the civilized world. Money cannot buy civility, class, and educated enlightenment, - only a masquerade of it
1
"The crown prince does not have political advisers except Turki al-Sheikh and Saud al-Qahtani"
.... and Mr. Trump does not have true political advisers except Roger Stone and Sean Hannity. This is the world we are living in.
2
Having spent time in Saudi and the middle east years ago whn religious police would bang on the doors of our business meetings at prayer time. Saudi business is mainly run by family entities given the franchises of western firms like Mercedes Benz etc. The more connected the family the more lucrative franchise the family received. They do business differently then we do as I recall one customer of mine bragged that he was having his clerk whipped daily for suspected theft. MSM has some great ideas of bringing Saudi into the modern world such as allowing women to drive and the need to diversify the economy as oil may not be the fuel of the future. MSM needs to condemn the killing of the Washington Post writer in Turkey . MSM may face a democrat president who would not be as forgiving as the TRump regime Turkey has a huge military and Qatar has lots of money. Democracy is not in the cards but a benevolent monarchy is essential for the young Saudis looking for meaningful work. Sharing the wealth of the ruling families could ensure the stability of the monarchy nothing is unstable as a state with rampant visible income inequality.
Reading about the Saudi royal family is like peering into a time capsule. An eerie view to a medieval dynasty enforcing itself on its masses, eliminating its enemies with brute force, holding on to the crutches of religion to stay legitimate and going along with the sole aim to keep ruling.
How the modern world interacts with this time-warped dynasty is itself a fascinating, and at times, a head scratching exercise.
Saudis will not really modernize, because the actual modernity (democracy, individual rights based social contract, religion not the business of the state, rational thinking) will throw them to oblivion in a matter of days. They will try their best to impress the world with their own version of "modernity" (fancy buildings, infrastructure, petro-bling) interspersed with the regular shows of the state brutality that will be necessary for their very survival.
The show will go on.
97
@Areeb Faras - The US kills far more over power & wealth than the Saudi, or all the oil nations combined. And we do it with the sole aim of keeping power. We practice state brutality etc so on. And yes our show will go on.
9
Trust me, the're as evil and medieval even in terms of infrastructure.
5
Areeb Faras commented "Reading about the Saudi royal family is like peering into a time capsule."
This statement could apply to all islamic theocracies.
Prophet muhammad lived in the seventh century, 1400 years ago. His followers are still dressing like he did, down to the smallest details, and pursuing his 'commands' in a similar way. They need to realize that assassinations, jihad, homophobia, and misogyny are no longer tolerated by civilized countries. MBS, in particular, needs some reeducation.
20
Kings do as they please.
This is why America was founded.
It’s time for those who have sworn an oath to our Constitution to take a hard look at Mr. Trump and his minions.
7
The NYT recently published an article regarding clerics at Medinah Holy Mosque. The Imam during their Jumma sermons, presented MBS as guided and unconditionally blessed by Allah. Also it was mentioned that every word spoken at the masjid should be approved by the 33 year king in waiting. Nothing happens at the kingdom that is not approved or supervised by MBS.
5
Greedy, conniving, obsequiously lying madmen, some of whom also happen to be bloodthirsty murderers, at the top of the international power structure in US and Saudi. Great.
14
I do not think we should any longer refer to him as Crown Prince "Moham..bi..Sal..", as the MBS abbreviation is now more accurately designated Crown Prince Madman Bone-Saw-Man.
Further, there is no argument of "innocent until proven guilty". This is not an American court of law. This is subject to adjudication by judicial and extra-judicial standards outside the realm of USA jurisprudence and should be considered as such.
1
Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and his crew should have their own vicious comic book. Their adventures seem unreal.
5
Here's a thought: The prince is fond of kidnapping people and making them see they aren't in as powerful situation as they thought.
How about a visit from a team from somewhere to take the prince on a little ride to an unknown place for a week.
Then turn him loose to get back home with the message that things better change.
That way those taking him on a little tour wouldn't stoop completely to his level of murder, but it does get the message across.
No, I guess not since even that level of muscle display leaves more blood on one's hands than we should be comfortable with.
Yet, our 'leaders' in Washington seem to look the other way and say it is just part of the vicious world our friends live in.
7
@reid: Don't worry, MbS' own relatives and those of the his "guests" at the Riyadh Ritz-Carlton hotel are going to take him on a little ride into the desert when the time is opportune. Except it will be a one-way ride for Mr. bone Saw.
8
It's kind of ridiculous to just refer to MBS actions as impulsiveness.
11
By God this has to be a very difficult place to live and do real business.
3
Don't focus your attention anywhere other than MbS.
23
Reminiscent of Saddam Hussein and his two sons Qusay and Uday Hussein, but without the familial ties.
17
@EMIP I think even the most conservative US politicians are now seeing the error of their ways with this Prince.
5
@Jam- except trump and the KUSH
1
“If history is a guide, we must always expect the grave crime of a dictatorship - be it of the far right or far left or of theocratic nature and gravity - to be one, for example of violently terminating the natural life of a critic convinced to be an existential threat when the imperatives of the conjuncture fail to serve as a basis for its intelligent decisions.
5
@Prof. Yves A. Isidor
good point, we're lucky in the U.S. we have a democracy.
1
@Guido
...And Donald Trump, as well !
@Guido
Do we? Hmmm.
2
One of his strongest supporters is Jared Kushner, since the Prince bailed out his 666 Park Ave mess. I hope some journalist investigates the relationship between the Prince and Kushner.
65
A Thug working for MBS gets a visa to get into NY for medical treatment. He wasn’t fleeing violence, he enables it. Yet women with children actually fleeing violence are feared?
Who approved this visa and why? This is the story that needs to be told.
Americans are under the impression that the visa and immigration lines are neat and tidy and everyone waits patiently in an orderly line to be properly vetted or they come here illegally. There is a third way that is not openly discussed.
83
There are few things more appalling about our current foreign policy than our support of Saudi Arabia's criminal war in Yemen. I say criminal because of the many crimes against humanity that have been committed by Prince Mohammed's planes with Donald Trump's bombs and missiles. In fact, given the undeniable fact that Trump's generals are fully aware that the bombs, refuelings and logistics we are supplying the Saudis are killing thousands of innocent Yemenis and destroying the infrastructure desperately needed by those who survive, we are also arguably guilty of war crimes. But being such an exceptional nation and people, we of course will never be charged, much less tried, convicted and punished.
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@Jamie Nichols
trump and his inner circle are fully aware of the ongoing murder of innocent Yemenis, and as it is clear that he is doing nothing to stop it means that he fully endorses it.
15
It's beyond ridiculous that the Saudis, who gave us 9-11, are the object of our affections. And our NATO allies who joined with us in Afghanistan to fight and die in pursuit of the 9-11 perpetrators are
the object of cheap shots and scorn from Trump.
What accounts for this absurdity?
The Bolton-Pompeo-Adelson axis views the Saudis as essential to justifying a totally unnecessary war with Iran. Not so bright Trump
is along for the ride and the approximately $100 Mil he can count on from Sheldon for 2020.
Last problem, how are they going to get rid of Defense Secretary
Mattis? Bolton and is helper, Mira Ricardel, have been working on
that.
Absurdity on top of absurdity, we're dependent on Melania to get rid of Mira who doesn't seem to be going anywhere, yet. I'm starting to wonder if Bolton and his team are protected and can't be fired without Adelson's permission.
Bottom line. We're dependent upon Melania Trump, Secretary of Staten Mattis and Nancy Pelosi to keep us out of a stupid war with Iran.
What a country.
www.wednesdayswars.com
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@Tom Callaghan
Your second paragraph re. Bolton, plus Miller, shows that Republicans can't help but vote for low IQ individuals, because it enables people like the two war criminals, who took Bush on their own personal ride.
12
@GaryT
And now Cheney's daughter's star is rising. I hope THAT apple fell far from the tree.
1
MBS is the favorite of Prince Jared, and Prince Jared is the favorite of Tiny Don.
39
I wonder if Jared Kushner will have another slumber party with his BFF the crown prince?
53
These people own world controlling levels of natural resources that will empower them for centuries. No ethical humanist civilization should allow this nonsense. It's as if Spain had been allowed to keep half the Western Hemisphere under slavery and the Inquisition. Use our military, just take the oil from these lottery winners and fence them off in their religious locations at Mecca & Medina. They'll appreciate being back to asceticism, they can focus on being better Muslims without all the distraction of that wealth.
26
But every family needs a Rolls Royce. Or 7. And without all that oil money, Rolls Royce would probably go under. The automotive division anyway.
1
The picture accompanying this article is the testament to the gall of this guy. He held the President of Lebanon hostage and probably shook him for a few billion dollars and made him read a written statement not so long ago.
Then he has him sitting next to him at the recent shindig that also included our dear Finance Minister Mr. Mnuchin. Granted Mnuchin went there on Israel's business not ours.
43
@banzai Why is an American Cabinet member going to Saudi Arabia on Israel's business?
Have you ever noticed the preferred chairs of the Saudi royal family? They all look like airline seats.
12
@W I had been thinking that exact thing.
3
Anyone who thinks that Game of Thrones is fiction, or represents a long-distant past, needs to take a close look at the House of Saud.
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@faith
Modern democracy and its freedoms are only 2 centuries old .Saudi Arabia is a medieval Absolute Monarchy , there is no rule of law & the King or his spoiled Crown Prince can do whatever he wants ( start wars with resulting famine & the worst humanitarian situation in the world , killing or torturing as many people as they want, terrorize his critics and citizens , absence of Due Process or minimal human rights ). The two guys in this article are the consigliere for a Medieval Tyrant ( aka MBS).
Will MBS continue his wholesale bloody habits as aided by his enablers ?
Unless replaced now , I think so
21
Seems like a carefully written piece to deflect the blame from MBS to his handlers. It is all happening because of these advisers.
12
@AKA. I didn't read it that way. I read it as showing how MBS uses his loyalists to do his bidding. I thought that was clear with the implication being that MBS paid off one of them with a 4.8 million dollar car right before the imprisonment of his rivals...
15
Prince Salman seems to have thuggish behavior.
These two thugs gravitated to him and the
prince found them as useful hatchet men.
It is a shame that both USA and U.K. favor
the prince despite enough information about
him running roughshod over his opponents
including torture and murder. In the next
breath they will talk about their values of
liberty, freedom and rule of law. It is time to
stand up for the professed values and stop
favoring the prince for monetary gains. Let king
Salman know the relationship with Saudis will
suffer if the prince continues in his role.
14
Alqahtani official position is equivalent to a minister in the Saudi government!
2
Citizens of America and other western nations look at Saudi Arabia through a democracy-tinted lens and are shocked at what we see. We judge these actors and actions through our norms of behavior.
Saudi Arabia is a monarchy, plain and simple. The King and the Crown Prince are in charge. Whatever they say goes. The rule of law is at their discretion. They are free to mete out punishment to their critics as they want.
The question is, at what point do we, as supporters of democracy, stop doing business with them. The Khashoggi assassination should be that point. That Trump doesn't think so tells us what he thinks of democracy.
36
@Ken L: I disagree with your comment that saudi arabia's behavior can be excused because they're "a monarchy, plain and simple". That may have been true in the 7th Century, but since then countries have become much more interconnected.
Even china respects most international laws and diplomacy. But outliers like north korea, saudi arabia, iran and others refuse to step up to the 21st Century and are living in an anachronistic self-delusion while giving false signals of attempts to modernize. Times change and they will be left behind.
5
@Ken L - Where do you get this idea "Saudi Arabia is a monarchy, plain and simple"? Saudi Arabia is a Theocracy, and a fascist oligarchy. That is, a book of religious writ as interpreted by Mullahs is law, enforced by a patriarchal secret police system, over-arched by a family dynasty that owns the money of the vast resources. There is very little plain either to the eye or to the mind in that, or simple in any reasonable interpretation of that term.
Britain has a monarchy, as does Japan, and Sweden. None of these places are comparable. That said you have no idea if the head of state of Saudi had a thing to do with the murder of Khashoggi. We may be a democracy, but you live in an information fantasy land ruled by a bogeyman.
6
If MBS didn’t have ‘anything to do with’ the murder he would’ve been outraged, and bleating about it quite loudly, through his billion dollar PR trumpet since Day One. He said... nothing.
4
Even Shakespeare could not have written a greater tragedy.
33
It is an important piece of information to me that Mr. Kashoggi, a former Saudi insider, left the area about a year ago as the rise and intent of new head Prince became more obvious. It seems Mr Kashoggi's violent death was a vile security measure and pay back to protect information Mr. Kashoggi must have had.
20
"In September, a stadium of Egyptian soccer fans broke out in vulgar chants denouncing Mr. Sheikh and the Saudis"
I guess we have a pretty good idea of what will happen to these two goons and their patrons if the people of the Arab world are ever allowed to run wild.
19
Thugs and bullies of an "ally" who have somehow made me grateful to live in the ugly political state America finds itself in.
5