Our sympathies to the victims and their loved ones at this tragic incident. That is very horrible calamity. We pray for all of the victims and for erupted inferno suppression.I hope all of us dont let our environment destroy if you can do something do it .Because environment is where our some of our need came from. Dont let disaster happen if there something you can do ,like dont throw you garbage anywhere to avoid flood and dont leave an open candle or stove to avoid fire .Thankyou for the nice article <3
Hi Jack, or anyone in the comments here... I've read how there has been a shortage of contractors to help in the rebuilding efforts in other parts of California due to fire damage, and being a contractor myself, I'm wondering how to help. My wife and I are in Los Angeles, where I'm sure there is going to be a need for companies like mine to rebuild, but I've never before lived in an area where this has happened. I know many contractors will seize opportunities like this to take advantage of the situation, but how can reputable good companies like mine, get involved?
Thank you,
TC
How is the air quality being affected by the smoke from the wildfires? With the ongoing drought in the state, and more and more wildfires, and winds that carry the smoke for many miles, respirator masks are becoming a necessity even for those who are far from the fires.
According to President Trump, the lives lost and lives ruined because of the California infernos are because of poor forest management. Yet lives lost and ruined because of shooting are never the result of poor gun management. I guess it is easier to blame the forest for a fire than a gun for a shooting. And lets not even consider the role of climate change in forest fires because Trump and Republicans deny that is even happening.
23
@GPThere is no way to compare a shooting with a wild fire. As should be obvious, one can be stopped. Mother Nature, with the bit in her teeth will do as she will. When has a shooting been caused by a gun, which escaped and just started killing with no human hand holding it? Wild fire doesn’t need anyone to hold her or help her kill and destroy, other than those placing themselves and their homes within her habitat.
@GP Several things: What do downed power lines - the apparent cause of the fires - have to do with "climate change?" Also, no one says climate doesn't change. The climate has changed for all of Earth's 4.5 BILLION years. Your claim about the President and Republicans is a nonsensical talking point. And, yes, poor forest management has exacerbated the effects of the fires.
I have not felt this way since 9/11 with another totally incompetent American "president" to show us the way through pain and loss. Who really is American's worst enemy? Who are the terrorists? ISIS? Poor people? Or the men who steal their way to our Presidency, their supporters and the supporters of an unrepresentative US government with more American blood on their hands than ISIS could dream of.
Healthcare? Climate change? Mr. Trump, you will never care even when you wake up to see an orange sky.
23
@SL123Right, blame the President. You’d do far better to look at the California Governor and his State authorities
@Bobbi Irish Yes I do blame Donald Trump for his lack of compassion, ignorance and lack of leadership and courage to address gun violence, climate control, and healthcare. The California Governor and State Officials do address these issues--we elect them to do it.
As for the State "Authorities" that you blame, it sounds like you are actually referring back to Trump obnoxious tweet when your fellow Americans (assuming that you aren't a Russian troll) were dying and losing their homes.
You are right. Blame the "president".
2
It's really imperative to find out if the tower was sabotage and if so, if there was a connection to the "Borderline" bar shootings by Ian Long. He was playing the names game in some insane way relating to town names and route numbers. Study the maps carefully. I did and he must have.
3
Climate change is part of the problem, but there are more immediate remedies available.
First, there are controlled burns. These remain politically infeasible to execute at the scale they would be needed to help much, but Cal Fire has thankfully started doing more and more of them. The BLM and Forest Service could be pressured to follow suit. There could also be a mechanism for state-funded controlled burns on private land.
Then there is code enforcement. I own land in the City of Oroville, right outside the Camp Fire, around which I was recently ordered to cut a fire break. Had my land been in unincorporated Butte County, then it is likely I would never have been ordered to do this. Codes should mandate more drastic firebreaks, and more money should be spent enforcing such laws.
Penultimately—and I regret triggering the Trump hatiest readers—there are a few specific changes in forest management that might help. Regulations around logging private land could be relaxed to make brush clearing more feasible. Unfortunately for the President, Governor Brown has already proposed doing this. It is up to the assembly to act on it. It probably wouldn't have stopped the Camp Fire specifically, but it would have slowed the spread of some of the other nasty recent fires.
Also, building code could order more on-premises water storage in rural residential areas. Some areas have begun mandating cisterns be installed for Cal Fire usage, but this requirement could be greatly expanded.
6
I keep weeping over the fire news. These are areas I know well — Feather River, Malibu, Thousand Oaks. I’ve experienced wildfire too close to my own California home, too, so the footage is all too real. Too raw. So many lives lost, so many homes. And the animals left behind! Some of them burned, all of them traumatized. It just hurts, more than I can process.
I’ve always felt that wildfires were just something you have to accept if you live in California. You prepare your property the best you can — mow grass and weeds, rake up tree litter, limb up trees, clear gutters of leaves, irrigate around your home, have an escape plan. But something about this last weekend has me absolutely terrified. These fires are not normal.
14
Will they be accepting volunteers in the Chico area? To whom do we send our donations?
3
In February 2015, Senator Inhofe held up his ice ball on the Senate Floor to prove Climate Change is a hoax. Unfortunately, the climate wasn't watching. On June 1, 2017, Trump pulled the US from the Paris Climate Accords, then in November 2018 he insults California for mismanaging the environment. Once again, its long past due for the adults to intervene.
26
Scientists predict worsening drought, so how do we help our communities transition from life zones of the past 100 years to life zones of a hotter future?
Paradise was affected by a bad wildfire 10 years ago (in June 2008) and lost 74 homes. The city is at an elevation of 1778 feet and sits in a fire corridor. Chico, CA is 12 miles away, but only at an elevation of 197 feet. The wind comes down the ridge and works like a set of bellows to fan wildfire.
Climate scientists expect that (without reduction of CO2), all the tall pines in Paradise will die over the next 100 years as the land becomes too hot. So Paradise will be surrounded by dead/dying trees and at risk of fire after fire until the pines are extinct. How are people going to have a thriving community in the face of a complete transformation from pine & oak to high desert?
If the change happens very fast, Paradise won’t transition to a living desert. It will look like the driest parts of the Middle East where there is nothing but barren dirt.
This terrible transition is happening all over the Southwest. Communities in fire corridors will take the first hits, but tough problems (lack of water, loss of topsoil, altered growing seasons, etc.) will hurt everyone in the years ahead.
We need to have an honest discussion about how to mitigate the situation. Otherwise, people will be caught in an escalating cycle of build, burn, build, burn until they are too impoverished and/or shocked to recover.
11
I have seen numerous fires here in CA and I live In the forest.The money CA spends on suing Trump could be spent on cleaning up the brush. The state and the federal governments are both guilty. Remember that the federal government was being run by Clinton and Obama, in the previous 16 years. The feds and state are more interested spending our hard earned money on buying votes by bringing people into the country instead of what is needed . Any fire can benefit from fuel reduction, as for under brush, why not prisoners, and workfare for the able bodied people who live on our money that is taken from us by the government. The camp fire was a unique combination of circumstances that all came together to create the tragedy. We can’t change the wind . Studies show that CA has had droughts worse than the recent ones before we were even burning fossil fuels. Most of the current climate change cannot be controlled by man. When were evacuating my daughter during the “RIm” fire a news reporter came up and talked to me on camera and I told them that if our president (Obama) and the previous one we’re managing the forest we wouldn’t be evacuating. Instead he is so busy with illegal aliens. They cut that part out of the news when it aired. Why would we want to import people in the millions when at the same time they say we have too much pollution, and need to reduce the use of foreign oil and traffic jams and so on. If you import people all those things are just going to increase.
4
@John The forests are managed by the the federal government (60 percent) or owned by private entities (25 percent). California state and local governments own 3 percent, (can you read that) 3 percent of the forests in California. You’re so busy making up stuff, you haven’t figured out the facts.
17
@John. Did you forget that W had the 8 years prior to Obama? check your facts before you post.
10
Maybe there is just to many people? So many that we are moving to remote places to escape ourselves?
7
Frankly, this is sickening beyond belief and brings tears to my eyes, the more so because these burned-out hulks of vehicles have written on them consequences of 30 years of politicians who arrogantly wouldn't listen to scientists, and collaborated with industries to cover up and deny human-caused climate change. The insanity of the human condition at this time, with Trump denying climate change and trying to blame the fire on forest management, is beyond belief.
19
@Anne Sherrod
Those areas were prone to fires even before any signs of climate change became apparent. Those areas are not supposed to be as densely populated as they are. Too. Many. People.
6
@Eva respectfully, this part of the Sierra foothills is not densely populated. And as you are in Boston, I will forgive you for your lack of understanding about the nature of climate change escalating fire dangers in California to unprecedented levels but I revoke d you check out calfire and educate yourself. For those of us living in suddenly dangerous woodland zones that were previously wetter and less prone to fire, this is a real risk to life and limb. It’s pretty upsetting for people not familiar to what we are facing here to offer opinions as if they are facts from cities on the other side of the continent.
9
@Eva
Have you been to Northern California? To Paradise? To Chico? These are NOT densely populated areas.
3
Thoughts and prayers are with the victims but now is not the time to talk about trees. Those Santa Ana winds clearly have mental health issues.
7
I realize the US is a imposes cruel and unusual punishment on its people with the lack of quality health care for all and a Senate majority ruled by the NRA elected by 18% of population but why are there no military personnel and choppers with thermal imaging evacuating there poor victims of government negligence.
4
@Craig I don't know much about much, but seems like the heat from a fire just might interfere with usefulness of thermal tech for finding survivors.
3
It’s time private energy companies stop hoarding their billion dollar profits and start upgrading their equipment and infrastructure!
Honest to god...when will we start to holding big oil and gas responsible for our destroyed planet?
And when will voters hold our politicians responsible for being bought and sold by these same companies and allowing them to influence environmental policies?
And when will voters think about long term rather than short term when it comes to issues like the environment and fear of loosing a handful of jobs?
15
Heartbreaking, truly. What words can be said in the face of such tragedy? There is little that can express the sadness and horror at the losses endured by the people of Paradise (and those in So.Cal at the sites of the other fires), and their families. Still I extend my deepest sympathies to all those suffering.
We have a god-awful president who lacks humanity and basic decency and who seeks to divide us at every opportunity and turn us against one another. But he cannot. The majority of us have something that he does not: true care for our fellow citizens. I hope the Californians affected by the fires know that there are millions around the nation sending love and strength to them and wanting to help in any way we can. Our thoughts are with you.
17
Geography tells us that most of the west gets 90 percent of its moisture during the fall and winter seasons. Springs and summers are notoriously dry. Having traveled through the western United States I've see firsthand the tinder boxes their forests have become. I understand also that fire is the only way that many species of pines regenerate themselves by burning their pinecones. These are places man was not meant to inhabit on a permanent basis. So it begs the question, why? Rebuilding places like Paradise are only going to serve to set future generations up for the same disaster. Let's learn from this and move on.
6
People shouldn’t live there? You could say the same about the Gulf coast, the southern Atlantic seaboard, all the northwest cities that are in earthquake country and in the shadow of Pacific Rim volcanos, the Mississippi delta, and an incalculable number of other densely and sparsely inhabited places in just the U.S. alone. We can’t hide from Mother Nature. There are few, if any places in this country and on our planet that are immune from the threat of natural disasters. But we can prepare, we can take climate change seriously and make the tough changes we must to stem the warming of our planet. It’s always the poor judgement of “other” people until disaster hits your community. Let’s stop pointing fingers and start being a united country again. Together, we would be an unstoppable force for good and change.
10
@V. Marshall
Let's face it, wildfires and mud slides are yearly occurrences in California. You're not going to change natural geographic processes, the Santa Anna winds that fan these fires for example. Look if people want to shoot the dice and live in areas that have a high probability of property destruction and death, that's their business.
1
Looking at these pictures I couldnt help but imagine if I lived there it might seem like the end of the world.
In particular Thousand Oaks, having dealt with a mass shooting one day, running for their lives from a forest fire next.
All this death and destruction means nothing to that which is bent on subjecting them to the taunting threats of no federal help because of poor forest mismanagement!
Ironically monied interests have been given a louder voice, a means to change environments, weaken federal programs aimed at environmentally sound, earth conscious managment, and yes sound forestery practice is steadily cut back.
How hard will be the recovery as one reels from one horror to the next.
All I have to offer are my prayers.
5
PG&E needs to stop putting up lines and start putting them underground. That way they aren't downed. I suppose they thought not burying the lines was a less expensive solution. Not anymore.
Wake up, Pacific Gas and Electric! We the rate payers can't take more increases or accidental conflagrations.
12
@Joan In California agreed! Thank you for posting the only useful suggestion in this comment section
2
@Joan In California
That's an easy thing to tell someone else to do. But I hope that you aren't imagining that it's a simple task to bury hundreds of miles of power lines underground in the terrain of the Sierras. The various task difficulties, time, expense, and erosion side effects involved in laying ditches and providing maintenance access alongside miles of two-lane roads are relatively easy, compared to the rest of it. Between the steep mountain slopes, chert geology, ravines, watercourses, etc. there are long stretches where burying power lines is practically impossible.
It may be possible to bury some of the power lines underground. But bear in mind that it would be a multi-year project, and that you, the ratepayers, would be footing the bill for it.
1
I had a notice from PG&E the other day that they planned to shut off the power due to high winds in Sonoma County. I wonder why they didn’t do that in Butte County, though it’s not clear yet what started this fire. The point is, burying the power lines might not be the only solution.
Thank you for this article. I do wish, however, that nurses' credentials would be included in your articles. Allyn Pierce is a registered nurse, an RN, and probably also has more credentials if he is managing an intensive care unit. I would bet that any physician mentioned in this article would have an MD after their name.
22
With an ongoing poor record of adequately maintaining their power lines, and a known connection to disastrous fires (possibly including these) California utility companies are uniquely insulated from liability. They can pass "costs" off to consumers, even after their equipment causes fires that burn homes, towns and humans. Climate change is part of this - I live in Montana and we know fire well but not like this, not incinerating entire towns - but the current climate that "business can do no wrong" is also a HUGE piece. Businesses can do wrong. It only cares about money, not people or quality of life. For God's sake, state legislatures should not be shielding businesses from liability they clearly have and should create the expectation that they will keep their lines clear and upgraded. The root of this is greed. And at what horrific cost?
21
@Nnaiden
Thank you for calling out the likely cause for this fire ~ the CA utility companies and their faulty maintenance ~ and its horrific costs. This isn't the first time power lines caused an inflagration. I couldn't help but connect this lax maintenance matter with the air traffic controller in Las Vegas, fired today after she was slurring her speech while working the late shift alone. These companies cut costs at public safety's risk, and think that they can get away with it. The "new normal" has been exhausting, but I'm hopeful the new normal is to call those accountable accountable.
6
The public discussion over Paradise is marvelous. People are mostly appalled by the destruction and try to address how such a horrible even could have been avoided.
The town was build in the edge of the forested slope of the Western Sierra range so it’s because of where it was built. Another case of runaway development where fires are natural. The town has been there since the 19th century. The urban wild interface factor obviously was not a sufficient cause.
Lack of logging to thin forest? Logging does not clear the brush and kindling, and leaves the landscape no less vulnerable to wild fires. Clearing of dead and overgrown brush has been stalled to pay for the fire fighting efforts. But work had been done where the fire started. Forest management was not a sufficient cause.
This part of the state shares much of the wet weather of Oregon and Washington but the weather patterns have not produced the rains that it should have received by now. Drought and changed weather patterns due to climate change is the proximate count.
We need to develop the habits of thought that seek real sound explanations and really well considered questions to ask. This everyone coming up with an answer is not going to lead to sound policies.
14
With all the money California pays into the federal treasury this is our reward — disrespected by our own president and abandoned by the rest of the country. Floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, California’s money helps pays for all the recovery, but when we need help nothing but insults. Thanks America. California will remember this moment in time.
30
Good. Remember it well
1
Years ago our family lived on land directly over the St.Andreas fault.Then an earthquake was our big fear.This was 40 years ago and there were sporadic fires but none which were deadly.During these years climate change has taken its awful toll.The government has to get serious and reduce CO2 emissions and stop listening to the selfish howls of the oil and gas industry.
12
Two words come searingly and burningly to mind:
CLIMATE CHANGE
19
@srwdm
Human overpopulation is the cause of climate change.
I am from Paradise. I lost my town and my home. Last night there was a community meeting. It was a demonstration of how democracy can work in a small town. Paradise is down but it will come back.
56
@Llewis. Good luck to all of you.
12
Please let us know how we can help.
I am a Physician Assistant with a California license and years of ICU and ER experience. How can I help?
14
@Sarah Silvernail
Might want to contact the Red Cross to see if they've got a database up and running for those area local hospitals, nursing homes, shelters.
Also, hopefully some vets and vet techs are volunteering for what seems to be an enormous number of injured and fire traumatized animals in distress.
1
While it was walked back in a later tweet (no doubt composed by underlings), Trump's first and most honest impulse was to blame the state of California for its latest deadly wildfires.
Does Trump realize people were incinerated alive while trying to escape? That most of these families in the town of Paradise are poor, have limited resources, and could well be left homeless after this fire?
Trump is a defective human being who is a failure in life and a disgrace as president.
91
This catastrophe is happening under a president who has blamed the state of California for these fires when he should be pouring federal resources into the state. And at the same time, Trump denies the climate science fact that these events are being stoked by human activities.
In the longer term, this is likely the worst crime against humanity and all other life by Trump's failing to lead the world in attacking climate change as the emergency it is.
34
Why aren't OUR Soldiers being sent to California??? They could offer great assistance to the Firefighters and Police. Instead, they are camping near the Southern Border, waiting for the " Caravans " of marauders.
Stupid, Stupid, Stupid. A colossal waste of Resources, for a political stunt. Seriously.
83
We Californians wish we had some of that Paris rain our President believed he'd melt in.
The fires that have devastated North and South has left the skies a crayola-grey and the State's Air Quality Index for most of the state in the Red and Orange zones (Unhealthy and Unhealthy for Sensitive Groups); tomorrow's forecast is worse.
Yet, we have an individual who taints and pollutes every thing he touches with hateful specious, punitive rhetoric; never once stopping to consider an alternative.
Hated is not the word I would necessarily choose for Donald Trump; more like disgust. Is it too much to expect- just-this-once, for him to lead?
52
Paradise Lost? So President Trump has weighed in on the etiology of the fires and it turns out they're caused by woodland conservation and management. Solution: pave Paradise and put up a parking lot (J. Mitchell, "Big Yellow Taxi," 1970)
14
President trump thinks that the fires are someone else's fault. Firstly, he does not have a clue what he is talking about. He thinks the fires are forest fires,,,, uh,,, no,, Camp Fire and the Hill Fire are not forest fires.
But is the intensity of the wind,, or intensity of the drought, if any of this change is the result of climate change??,,,,, and it may well be,and the only proof you need is to be older than 50 and look out your own window,,,,, then our 'so called president' needs look no farther for a cause or incompetence, than his mirror, when over combing his hair.
25
Simple solution to power lines arcing and starting wild fires: When the winds whip up, simply de-energize the lines. If/when spoiled people whine about being without power, tell them not to bite the hand that feeds them (by their fining and/or suing the power companies).
6
@Al K. De-powering lines has been routine in many areas of California for years.
20
@Al K.
They have been doing that. A shut down was set for that day by PG&E. Several counties in the area got notification.
12
Many people, ourselves included, chose to live in an area that decades ago was not a fire threat. Who could have predicted this nearly 30 years ago? It is not easy to just up and move when you have made a place your home. Please stop accusing residents of knowingly living in a fire-threatened area. It is enough to face the reality of losing everything, perhaps even our lives, let alone being blamed for it. It would be far better to work towards solutions for people and for the environment, which is obviously suffering. It is not only fires, but floods, hurricanes, and super snowstorms. The earth is trying to tell us something. Do not let its cries fall on deaf ears.
49
Southern California is my old stomping ground (born in Pasadena, lived in L. A. most of my life). What most people don’t realize is that southern California (say, roughly, from San Diego to Santa Barbara) is really nothing more than an irrigated desert, a most inhospitable area (save for a few hearty indigenous tribes like the Paiute) that, once “watered,” became a magnet for a greedy and most unconscionable “land grab” in the 1930’s, 1940’s and 1950’s. Land developers, eager agricultural entrepreneurs and Hollywood, itself, flocked to the “new paradise” in droves. My home state would have been far better off “sans” the H2o. We took “hell” and turned it into “heaven” and are now living in a “purgatory” of our own making. Let’s just hope that we can “pray” our way out.
10
Hello ? ? ? Anyone home at the White House ??? We're burning up and dying here. We promise to streamline the government bureaucracy that oversees forrest fires if you send your son-in-law after he solves the Middle East peace problem.
25
Remember when Obama attacked all those red states during those natural disasters of his term?
We have articles dissecting the truthfulness of Trump's Tweets but I'm waiting for the article that calls out this hostile attack of an American President on their own people.
Can anyone name a time that another president was so openly against his own people? Anyone remember being punished for not voting for a person?
It's time we stop treating this guy in office like we have the previous guys in office. He's a crook. He's a sociopath. He's everything we've ever been taught is bad. And yet we normalize him and his behavior because of some mythical status we've given the office.
He didn't change when he took the oath. Let's stop acting like he did.
74
These tragic wildfires tear the heart and trouble the mind. They, along with floods, addiction, disease and terrorism, are the gravest authentic dangers to the lives and safety of the American people. Consequently, these authentic dangers should receive top priority in terms of budgets, focus and commitment, rather than so-called national defense which is by far the strongest in all the world.
If we can send spacecraft to the planets and fire rockets to hit any target on the globe, we can develop the technology to shoot enough water to extinguish any wildfire on earth. We can marshal the means to prevent and reduce floods, addiction, disease and terrorism. The only thing that's stopping us is our own misguided priorities inherited from a time and context that no longer exist.
15
I find the comments here both heartening and disheartening. Most, I believe are opinions from honest folks who are ill informed about the realities of fire prevention and fire fighting and rebuilding after a massive fire. The policians are no help as they say what will get them elected and re-elected. I was a volunteer firefighter, EMT/Paramedic but in New Hampshire and Massachusetts and know first hand the pain and suffering of anyone who has lost property and loved ones lives in these types of disasters. I volunteered to travel to Califiornia to help fight these massive fires. Disaster and pain is a terrible thing to experience from a vicitim and responder standpoint. PLEASE, don't vote your political party, vote your heart while keeping your family and friends in mind.
With best regards and hope for reduced pain in the future, NHL&H and PFD first responder and VN Army vet and please don't get me started on the latter!
18
Terrible about the loss of life and homes in Paradise and elsewhere.
CA has experienced unprecedented fires over the past few years due to drier and hotter conditions. It is very possible this is caused by global warming and changing weather patterns. And it's only going to get worse and affect more of the country.
It is also disheartening that faulty equipment by Edison and PG&E perhaps caused these fires. We have regulations and standards to protect the public. I hope the regulatory standards were met.
I know Republicans are big on getting rid of "job killing" regulations. But without good regulatory oversight quite literally people's lives are put at risk, homes are lost, children are poisoned by lead, pesticides accumulate and cause disease, boats sink, financial markets collapse, and on and on.
Government and industry regulations are most often forces for good. We all need to recognize that and also start preparing for more destructive weather events. We can bury our heads in the sand - but this won't change the science or the future.
38
As beautiful as is the weather is here in California it obviously comes with a price. Friday night my niece and her kids spent the night over after being evacuated from Calabasas, today my stepdaughter momentarily from their house in Chatsworth after a new fire broke out there but shortly rescinded after a quick response got it under control and both are okay. Needless to say 11/11 will be remembered for different reasons here. But on a positive note my cousin in Santa Rosa whose housed burned along with his son’s last year in the Coffey Park fire, just updated his Facebook page today to show the framing for his new one was well underway. Life goes on in spite of what the news feels like sometimes.
7
@John Doe
Our prayers for those who did not make it and/or are unaccounted for.
It'll be a while before 'Life goes on" for these families.
7
We face forest fires here in Nelson, but only in the summer. Californians have to face the threat year round, which is a terrible burden.
I wonder if it's any longer safe to live in a mild climate where there are forests.
7
The precise location is not certain yet, but it's clear that the Camp Fire started outside the tiny berg of Pulgas, within the Plumas NATIONAL Forest. So any mismanagement involved is at the federal level.
It should also be pointed out that National Forests are mixed use areas--used for both commercial and recreational purposes. If there was a demand for timber from this area, it would have been provided.
If Mr. Trump believes that underbrush has not been property controlled here, I'd happily lend him a hoe and an ax. If he doesn't want to help (bone spurs or something), I'd advise him that he can either say nothing and have people think he's a fool or speak up and remove all doubt.
He doesn't know the first thing about managing wild lands.
63
@Justin IQ45 has no clue of the vastness and inaccessibility of a huge forest, both of which do not allow for much management (i.e., brush clearing in the High Sierra miles from any road) so he hasn’t a leg to stand on (as if he does, anyway.) Forget any sympathy or empathy from him. He’ll turn this into a political fight with Gov. Brown simply because the latter is a Democrat who has already requested national emergency status. Trump is a poor example of humanity because he has none.
25
@Justin O I love that line - "he can either say nothing and have people think he is a fool or speak up and remove all doubt" . He removed all doubt!
If this was caused by PG&E, yet Again, with this kind of devastating loss of massive property as well as many lives, then they should be forced to pay for this out of pocket.
It is time that the Investor Class, those that bought the stocks and bonds and then demanded maximal return with minimum spent on structural upkeep of the system should have to pay their percentage dependent on how much of that stock they own.
If they can take Dividends then you can bet that all of those people and accounts and even stock serial numbers are well known to the accountants and their bankers. If they can take decades of dividends in times of profit, then they get to pay up when it comes time to cover their bills.
These days it is not always the CEO and Board, decisions are driven by Stockholders (very often the boards) and decisions are slanted towards rewarding the investor class, yet they never seem to be held Responsible when things turn bad.
Perhaps this will be enough to get people to re-look at the idea of corporate ownership and responsibility of the owners since they profit in good times or bad, or the company goes bankrupt the 'owners' lose just the initial investment, when they would lose LOTS MORE if they were held to the responsibility of paying the bills and liable for damages done and NO way to duck out of paying just because of it being 'paper ownership'.
If you take the profit, you bear the responsibility.
And there has been a whole LOT of Profits taken over the years!
20
Jack Nicas and Julie T.,
Excellent coverage by the NYT so far. If you look at CALFire's 2018 Butte County Unit Fire Plan, you will see that dozens of fuel reduction projects were completed and planned around Paradise, Concow, and other local areas in the past decade. Yet I don't see any efforts by CalFire to increase safety in-town by enforcing defensible space or otherwise making homes more "survivable". It's clear that the fires blew past any "fuel breaks", but are you getting any sense that the town itself had built any sort of defense for a fire like this? My increasing sense is that the state and PG&E are getting blamed for these events, when eventually the burden may need to shift to those who chose to live in towns in extreme hazard zones.
2
The town existed where it is since the mid-1800’s. It was called, “Pair o’ Dice”, originally. There are lots of communities extended into wild lands that have experienced wild fires naturally and are prone to being burned down. This community has existed where it is too long to place it in that category.
6
In prehistoric time, which implies pre-global warming times, the burnt surface of the US was estimated to be 5 times larger per year on average than it is now (research reported about in the NYT). Bird and plant species are adapted to burnt land. Certain types of seeds germinate only upon burning of the surface. A type of woodpecker faces extinction because of the reduction in burned surfaces. It's 150 years of fire suppression that have caused a built up of fuel in our forests such as fires are hotter and more destructive. Global warming may be enhancing it but the permanent build up of dry dead wood in our forests in unsustainable. We need to allow the forest to go through a natural or controlled burn cycle and we need to build communities where they can be protected from fire. Praying for the victims after the fact is not enough. We need a plan. The plan must involve restoring the natural role of fire in ways that are compatible with human life and health. Communities have to be defensible by design, or at least there has to be an effective evacuation plan in place. And officials MUST use reverse 911 or face consequences. In Paradise as in Santa Rosa last year officials refused to use a taxpayer-funded system of geographically targeted cell phone alerts to avoid creating panic and traffic jams. That implies letting people die in their homes. I can't imagine this being an acceptable option to anyone.
12
@Skinny hipster
Paradise has spotty cell service.
California mountain towns need a community wide siren like we had in the Midwestern town I grew up in to warn us of tornadoes. In Paradise, law enforcement was attempting to go door to door in the early morning hours to warn people to evacuate. Highly inefficient. I’m surprised at the number of people who were actually able to evacuate.
My hunch is that state politics gets much more attention than does managing the state. California is huge and managing it is no small task. I wonder if Jerry Brown is up to doing anything but politics these days.
3
Thank you NYT for giving this catastrophe the national attention it deserves.
38
As Trump glibly threatens nuclear war, take a look at these photos. That's what the entire US will look like with dead and missing not in the hundreds but in the millions.
17
What has happened to the humanity in this country? No matter where you stand politically, we are all Americans and should have compassion for our fellow human beings who are suffering deeply. I’ve been sickened by the many heartless, divisive, politically charged comments in various articles in the NYT. This isn’t a blue vs red issue. It’s about having basic human kindness.
23
@Tam The California governor never misses an opportunity to take pot shots at our President. Are you complaining about that?
4
@Tam
Oh, please! Did you read the article??? there are many heros in this catastrophe....and probably will be more as this fire rages on. They're not wearing blue or red. The Times does great reporting.
12
@Dixon Duval
People are dying, Mr Dixon Duval.
Show some decency and keep petty politics out of it!
15
The stark increase in forest fires coincides with the Obama administration's revision of forestry management regulations in 2012, eliminating long-standing, effective common sense techniques. As put by TownHall:
"Eco-purists want no cutting, no thinning – no using fire retardants in “sensitive” areas because the chemicals might get into streams that will be boiled away by conflagrations. They prevent homeowners from clearing brush around their homes, because it might provide cover or habitat for endangered species and other critters that will get incinerated or lose their forage, prey and habitats in the next blaze. They rarely alter their policies during drought years.
The resulting fires are not the “forest-rejuvenating” blazes of environmentalist lore. They are cauldron-hot conflagrations that exterminate wildlife habitats, roast bald eagle and spotted owl fledglings alive in their nests, boil away trout and trout streams, leave surviving animals to starve, and incinerate every living organism in already thin soils … that then get washed away during future downpours and snowmelts. Areas incinerated by such fires don’t recover their arboreal biodiversity for decades." (Paul Driessen, senior policy adviser to the Congress of Racial Equality)
4
Yeah, it has nothing to do with record breaking heat and little rainfall.
18
@Charles California DOES have regulations in place that mandate the widths of the lines of defense around buildings of all kinds. The local fire departments have jurisdiction for enforcing compliance prior to May or June first, depending on risk. After those dates, home and business owners will have their properties cleared by the fire authorities at high cost.
Controlled burns can’t be done when extreme fire conditions are announced. Sadly, this is nearly year-round now because of climate change and the resultant severe drought. As a native southern Californian (Ventura Co.) I’ve witnessed plenty of fires, and can attest with certainly they have become bigger and more destructive. First, the Thomas Fire was the largest in CA history, and just a few months later, that has been revised by the huge fires faced today, and the Camp Fire is the deadliest—-so far.
Any other brilliant ideas from NC?
14
@Charles
The Atlas Peak fire last year took place in brushy country. You don't know what you are talking about.
7
Demand for rental housing will increase with the displacement of people. I think laws should be passed to prevent landlords from jacking up rents to take advantage of people in need. This is a time for everyone-landlords included, to think of the greater good. Rents and shared housing are going to become more of the norm as people move from fire ravaged or hurricane ravaged areas. Climate Change demands that we plan ahead and find ways to take care of each other humanely.
13
@CJ
Which also includes building mixed income housing. The people teaching kids, caring for elderly, fighting fires, collecting trash and recycling can no longer afford to live in the communities where they work. This is happening not just in NY and SF, it's happening in cities across the country.
8
@nom de guerre
Yes, you are correct!
4
Parts of the most populous state in the Union are being devastated by fire. Many lives, the number yet unknown, have been lost; whole neighbourhoods have been razed to the ground.
From what we're hearing here, the response of the President of the United States has been to blame this on California's "gross mismanagement of the forests" and threatening to withhold Federal aid.
One wonders whether his response would have been the same had this disaster occurred in the likes of Alabama, Mississippi or Texas.
29
@Aelwyd
After the hurricanes, did he blame the state governments in SC for overbuilding on the coast? Or in Houston for developing flood zones? Nope.
21
@Aelwyd California is only technically part of the USA, it's basically another country in reality. Since California is so much smarter and so much further ahead of all the other states as Jerry Brown puts it. Perhaps they should have to fund their own disasters. Maybe that would motivate them to manage the state as well as they manage the state politics.
3
@Dixon Duval
"California is only technically part of the USA" - I will leave it to Americans themselves to debate that point with you. What is certain, however, is that those affected are not "technically" part of the human race.
What unites us is our shared humanity: 'any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in Mankinde; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls: it tolls for thee'.
19
California is burning in a way that Australians know and have lived with all their lives. With climate change adding in the extra factors our bushfires that you know as wildfires just keep getting worse and if any country knows how to prepare and fight these fires it's us.
But they come every year and watching on from afar we can empathise with all those who are directly affected and our thoughts and wishes for a speedy end are with you.
In 2009 the fires known as the Black Saturday fires tore through the state of Victoria. The Black Saturday fires caused Australia’s highest ever loss of life from a bush-fire event. 173 people died with about 120 people being killed by a single firestorm considered by experts to be the perfect firestorm. Over 2,030 houses and 3,500 structures were destroyed with thousands more suffering damage. The towns of Kinglake, Marysville, Narbethong, Strathewen, and Flowerdale were completely destroyed while many other towns suffered serious damage. The total area destroyed was 193051.1mi², the size of a small country.
The destruction in the town Paradise is immense I'd expect the death toll to rise.
These events bring out the best side of humanity(not your President though) and tales of heroism and sacrifice will emerge in the coming days and hopefully you'll recover and lessons learnt will be instructive for future prevention. Americans just like Australians pull together when tragedy strikes.
You will overcome.
137
@Lee H Californians have lived with fires all our lives too. Every year there was a "fire season" and wilderness-adjacent places tended to have fires. But it's been much worse since 2000: fire season is about twice as long as it used to be, and fires sometimes burn in places that never had them before -- like in the middle of town. We never used to have to walk around major cities in respirator masks; now it seems to happen every year in some combination of San Francisco, Los Angeles, or San Diego. Before 2000 years tended to have consistent rainfall. Since then, every year is either drought (usually) or deluge (sometimes) -- both of which seem to exacerbate fire conditions.
The technical lessons were learned by some Californians long ago; fire chiefs from Native American reservations are often interviewed on news shows to explain the process of brush management. The reservations always seem to have that under control. But despite the knowledge of fire departments throughout, the rest of the state has suffered from the politics of real estate overdevelopment, and very obviously now, from the effects of climate change.
I'm afraid if there is a lesson to be learned at this point, it's not about fire prevention.
5
Our comments seem to have lost the key thread:
These fires are climate change augmented disasters. Many, including a man who literally drove his melting truck through fire to save others, have helped to limit the damage and loss of life. Mexico Beach is another recent example.
As the rebuilding in nearby Santa Rosa shows, it takes time, organization, hard work and money to repair, relocate, and rebuild. My son's friend is just starting to rebuild the home he lost in last year's wine country fires.
Mexico Beach and Paradise should remind us of what we are facing and will face because we allow the Kochs and their fossil-fuel buddies to own the Republican (and national) agenda. Perhaps it is time we start to do something about it.
Thank you NYT for an excellent article.
64
@Mark Johnson
Hopefully your son's friend will rebuild with fire protection in mind!
Paradise, California was founded in the nineteenth century in the era of the Gold Rush. It has existed in the forest that extends right up the sides of the Sierra range. It’s at the lower end of one of the passes through the range. That it was destroyed like this only beachside of conditions that had not existed previously for at lest one hundred and seventy years. All the other commonly guessed at reasons for such a conflagration were there but insufficient to produce such a result for all that time.
It was not land management that was the tipping point. It was global warming accelerated by human activities cause weather patterns to change.
22
“...only beachside...” was automatically inserted from an attempt to replace “...only bespeaks...’
Admittedly not a good way of expressing the thought but the watching A.I. in the spell checker made it unintelligible to an aware intelligence.
9
I am assuming that we will see more of these fires as long as new cities continue to develop in the same areas....
Climate related or not, the earth has always had these natural occurrences... that for obvious reasons we change the name to disasters because people's lives are involve...
This is nothing new.
Why are cities approving to develop on high risks areas????
Why do people knowingly go to live there?
Think about it....
4
@Jess: No dear, climate change is making these natural occurences worse. That’s what’s new. These areas used to be not high risk, and wildfires were manageable. I suggest you think about it a bit more...
19
Paradise isn’t a new city.
14
Paradise, CA is a Gold Rush era town. It got its first post office in 1877. It has changed little over the years with a slow-growing population of 27000. There are no new developments being built there. Some of what you say may apply to the Ventura County fire in Southern California but is otherwise irrelevant to this rural, agricultural area of Northern California.
15
Someone should tell Trump that Paradise, CA leans red. In fact, Trump got over 3% more votes than HRC in Paradise.
12
Why should the president's response to a full scale catastrophe depend on how many people in the affected area voted for him? California is burning up, and while people are risking their lives to save others, all Trump can do is threaten to withhold disaster funds and blame it on "poor forest management." Trump knows nothing about forest management or about how to run the country. Holy God.
10
@Martin
You're preaching to the choir, but Trump is not a singer. He would never be able to relate to the pain and suffering resulting from a fire this large and fast moving unless he were there, .... which he would never be.
5
Key words: “Investor owned utilities.” Privatizing a public good leads to cost cutting and disaster.
24
Something is wrong folks! Why are these people being burned to death in their towns?
Did they ignore warning? Were there no warnings? Poor Warnings; poor warning systems?
This should not be happening in the United STates!
2
@Frank I see you are from North Carolina so perhaps you are unaware of our climate in California. In Northern California, we haven't had any significant rain for 200 days.
There are no warnings when a fire is started... they start quickly and this one is burning very fast because there are heavy winds blowing embers far and wide. When these winds converge with embers, it only takes minutes to ignite trees, roofs, ect. Believe it or not- most of us DO take measures to protect our homes by trimming trees, raking our property, create defensible space, ect- but when embers fly from the sky there isn't much else to do but run for it.
This isn't a hurricane that can be followed and planned for. And yes, it can happen in the United States. The USA is not immune to natural disasters... all we can do is financially and emotionally support our firefighters, police, hospital workers ect and thank them for all they do to help us all in times of need.
16
People had a 5 min warning to leave. Many were told to "evacuate immediately." The fire started at 6:30 a.m. and quickly grew to moving at a rate of 70 football fields a minute! Just think about that. Many people were awakened out of a sleep through a phone warning system or their own smoke alarms and we're jumping in cars in their pajamas grabbing their pets if they could or leaving them. This is a rural area with a lot of livestock that had to be left behind. There are many retirees that lives there and that means older and more disabled people who can't evacuate in a matter of 5 minutes. The traffic became so clogged that officers were actually telling people to get out of their cars and run. This NYT article lays this all out for the reader.
20
@Frank California fire authorities agree the fire behavior seen in this year’s fires is something never observed before. The Camp Fire came roaring down the mountain at EIGHTY MPH because of the hot, dry winds in the area. That doesn’t give people much time to evacuate, considering there is only one lane on each side of the road going into and out of Paradise to the west. The eastern side of town’s road was impassible. Two hundred people haven’t been accounted for. People died in their cars when trying their best to escape. Warnings don’t do much under those conditions.
12
The fire's main impact is to preempt press coverage of the Borderline Bar incident, and both happened shortly after Gavin Newsom became Acting Governor when Brown left the state.
The Butte County sheriff said he received a "red flag warning" but it must be a false red flag he imagines because the National Weather Service didn't send one until 11/11, which I confirmed with the Federal Railroad Administration due to the Feather River Division freight corridor. There was none on 8/9 or 8/10, and California operates a parallel set of weather stations for an irrigation sensor network: I pulled the data from Durham and the humidity was too high and wind negligible and then in the wrong direction of the fire spread.
Unlike the Oroville evacuation and every other fire in the history of modern California, Beale AFB remained closed to evacuees except it sent 105 US Special forces Military Police in spite of stare decisis and the Cal Air National Guard was not mobilized. The state's fire expert spoke to the LA Times about a "granite canyon" but it's on the Calaveras and Shoe-Fly complex, geologically. Butte County is named after the Sutter Buttes, after all. All the burned land is federal national forest, and the feds hate Paradise due to drug cultivation.
Now, the relief fund committee is chaired by Marcus Benedetti, the nephew of Gian Luigi Ferri - gunman in the 101 California shooting in 1993, co-chaired by Ghilotti construction - a big Newsom contractor in SF.
1
Sounds like an expert, just another fantasist. Special forces deployed??!! No red flag warning in days previous?? Nope and nope. Marcus Benedetti was on the relief committee of the Tubbs Fire last year, nothing to do with the present one. And so forth...please don't dishonor our tragedy with your armchair conspiracizing.
9
Saying that wildfires are natural is just ridiculous. There is no lightning here in California, and what is more ridiculous is that third fire wasn’t cause by some hillbilly but by our great and thoughtful PG&E. It wouldn’t be the first time that pg&e caused some kind of greatly harmful environmental pollution and tried to negate responsibility like that ridiculous bill that just passed by California lawmakers. We need to hold pg&e accountable. We also need more cal firefighters.
6
@Nino No lightning? You cannot be serious. Summer rainstorms in CA mountain ranges always have lightning. Giant Sequoias require burning for their seeds to germinate, so how do you think that happened over millenia? Lightning.
5
The backlash by the Trump defenders and anti-environmentalists is gaining force against the criticism of Trump's ridiculous blame of inadequate forest management as the cause of fires. A Times "Pick" accuses Obama for gutting abatement rules as the cause of recent fires, of course totally ignoring climate as a contributing factor, blaming eco-purists.
If one wants to take the time to research the Obama criticism, the FACTS show that thinning, harvesting of wood INCREASED under Obama compared to Bush. although some clear cutting regulations were imposed to prevent erosion and flooding.
Trump has reduced fire fighting abatement budget by 300 million per year to pay for his tax breaks for the rich.
Most of the information I can find blaming Obama for the fires came from the 'Canada Free Press" which is listed by a non-partisan fact checking group as "Extreme right, propaganda, conspiracy, some fake news"
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/canada-free-press/
It would behoove all of us to drop the politics and attempt to work with the multiple issues of the problem.
54
@AJR
sorry to say... the current administration will never 'drop the politics'
4
For the record, the Canadian 'Free Press' website is not all representative of the average Canadian's values. Its publisher was a former columnist for several right wing tabloids. Her paranoid, racist rhetoric was eventually considered too offensive even for her former employers. As a Canadian, I'm embarrassed to see that site mentioned here.
1
The fires in California can not be attributed to forest management (as per Trump) or to global warming. Each as contributed to this disaster. People moving into forest areas with potential for fires is a contributing factor but will probably decrease as people see the folly of this strategy. The contribution of global warming will likely increase. The likelihood of fires like the current Southern California fires will increase with changing weather patterns and rising temperatures. Our choices of living spaces will decrease as the planet heats up. We humans are in for a wild ride and my hope is that humanity manages to somehow survive what we have created. For there to be any hope of such an outcome, the world governments must act now.
8
Since global warming is apparently upon us people everywhere will have to learn from the disasters we are experiencing and adapt. Obviously no reasonable solutions are going to come from the White House (or the Senate) so we need to just ignore both and get people together who have a chance of figuring out solutions and apply them.
7
Donald Trump is a puppet. He is distracting everyone with his showmanship by saying absurd things, when our focus should not only encompass relief efforts, but what more is going on inside the White House/Congress/etc. regarding our nations future.
23
It sounds like California's electric infrastructure needs upgrading even worse than Texas!
6
@Dora Smith
Where did this coment come from? Blaming the electric distribution grid? What proof? And, no, I don't work for a power company and am very retired from an electronics profession. Just don't understand the finger pointing. Enlighten us.
2
Paging the Federal Government disaster relief help and leadership, FEMA, and the National Guard...
Oh right, Trump could care less about helping sticken states and communities (especially in "Blue" states), there's NO national leadership for disaster relief, FEMA is a dysfunctional joke under Trump, the National Guard and active army units is on the Mexican border, and Trump is fully preoccupied insulting European leaders and staying out of the rain!
26
Boy, do I miss Obama. Even though there are no “right” words to soothe the people that are going through this horror, he would have struck the correct tone in terms of consolation and would have expressed gratitude for the responders. Instead, the man who supposedly leads this country, who has no empathy, casts blame.
Except for death row inmates, I don’t think I have ever seen a person with such a black hole where a heart should be. He is such a severly damaged human being. How he gets loyalty from his followers is completely beyond my comprehension.
104
@Kathryn
Please keep in mind that Richard Nixon was elected and had a loyal following as well. I'd just returned from Viet Nam and could not believe people would vote for him. But, yet they did. Same mindset enables people like Trump to be elected. Sad!
8
@jim
Richard Nixon, for all his myriad faults, was actually interested in governing and implemented and promoted policies to the left of Obama's (I voted and worked for Obama in 2008 and 2012). Trump is NOTHING like Nixon, except that they both lie. But so did Johnson, another president who was interested in governing.
For some situations, there are no words... But President Obama's presence was always comforting; he was not afraid to feel emotions or let others see or hear what he was feeling, and it was always clear that he cared about the citizens of this country. Even those that didn't care for him.
Sorry to quibble during such devastation, but a town that is almost 100% wiped out is not "decimated" (10%). May we please retire this misnomer? Thanks.
14
My family has been living in Monterey, Calif. since 1848 and when I started to go to college here in 1966 the population was about 18 million and now it is about 40 million. Population explosion along with global climate change has created a toxic brew with the results that we have only began to see play out. I live in the Carmel Valley, just east of Monterey. It is a long narrow valley that from Hwy 1 in Carmel to Arroyo Seco Road is 40 miles long and there is only one outlet, Las Laureles Grade, about 9 miles from Hwy 1. If a fire were to start near the mouth of Carmel Valley with the winds blowing east 25-30 miles an hour as they usually do during the high fire season in summer, the resulting conflagration would destroy everything in its path including people as they desperately tried to get out of the way.
People in the Carmel Valley Village have organized to purchase a nearby 30 flat acres that has accomodated Cal-Fire personnel and equipment as recently as the devastating Soberanes fire in 2016 that destroyed a good part of Big Sur and was headed towards the Carmel Valley before Cal Fire stopped it.
If you wish to learn more about our efforts to protect our homes and property please visit www.cvsos.org to learn who we are.
15
Building codes: Require homes to have tile roofs and masonry walls, etc. Also, possibly, keep plants away from sides of homes. Proper construction would save most homes but would add to cost.
3
@SeaBee Tile roofs and masonry don't work well in earthquake zones, alas. And people have been being very good about trimming back brush. With winds like these, almost nothing will stop a fire.
10
In mid October 2018, PG&E cut off power to 60,000 customers in high fire threat areas - that weekend (like this past one) had red fire warnings and high wind. Can anyone tell me why they left the power on this time?
3
@sheilae
There was no red flag warning from the National Weather Service and there is no high-voltage transmission corridor in the area. The State's fire spread science expert (and beer judge) was found to lie to the Legislature regarding firemaps after last October - there's something fishy about him.
@Thomas Busse
Incorrect. There were red flag warnings issued for Butte County from Wednesday evening to Friday mornings. PG&E had already notified customers to expect to lose power during that time period.
5
It seems like electric utility companies have caused a lot of serious fires lately. I'm no expert, but I would think there are a variety of ways to strengthen electric utility infrastructure to reduce the risk that it will cause wildfires. Burying lines comes to mind. Clearing trees from near lines might help. Installing concrete poles instead of wood, and making more frequent inspections, etc. Of course, all of this costs money, and is unlikely to be undertaken without a strong regulatory push, or some sort of financial incentive, like making utilities liable for the damage they cause when their equipment causes fires. We have made great progress toward making automobiles and airplanes much safer. Now it is time to turn the attention of safety regulators toward the electric utility industry.
13
@Dan Frazier
Yes, it costs money. So does hiring crews to work round the clock restoring the same old inefficient infrastructure. This is not unique. Remember Puerto Rico; after the hurricane felled trees and power lines, electricity was restored in the same way it existed.
We've seen this scenario too often in places following natural disasters.
We need major infrastructure improvement for energy, transportation, housing, and education. But you don't snap your fingers and create infrastructure. It requires a well researched and detailed program and major government investment at every level over years.
Unfortunately, since the 70's America has been terminally complacent. 'Vision' extended to the next quarter, 'If it an't broke don't fix it' the mantra.
Tax cuts removed funding for investment in our future.
Large, existing industries with well funded lobbys such as oil, pharmacy and auto continued to be supported.
Many in congress became their lackeys.
We will not fix these problems with the existing system.
11
@Dan Frazier
Wait! "I'm no expert" completely negates everyting written beyond this. Right? Join the local Fire Department and after 4-5 years, I wonder if you'd have the same thoughts. Wow!!
@Dan Frazier We Could have been running with Mr Tesla's wireless power transmission, but of course the financiers of the time, and now, see no big profit in that.
It is obvious that the entire 'Profit Motive' of Capitalism is anathema to the human condition and normal ecological living state, if everything is reduced to having a price, then the richest can destroy the most precious with abandon and not feel the effect, himself, while those around him may suffer terribly in need of what was destroyed.
We need to have a decentralized power system that does not ravage the ecology with pollutants or power lines that can cause several harmful situations, fire being one of them, bird deaths another, among many. And we need the power systems to be cheap, portable and not dependent on expensive fuels that come from only one set of distributors.
If Mr Tesla could have done it in his day, we most assuredly can today as long as the profit motive is removed from power generation and distribution.
Make the producers of those energies, and the stock owners thereof, to be fully responsible for the massive pollution and damage that has been caused not only by the petroleum fuel industry, but it's by-industrial products such as all forms of plastics and chemicals from crude oil.
There ARE alternatives, they just do not concentrate the wealth as oil does. The Corporations & Militaries coverup ZeroPoint energy, LENR tech and local tapping of the geomagnetic EM fields.
No need for profit!
Fire is a natural part of the California ecology, even though most ignition is anthropogenic.
In such a climate, building and living on the edge of the forest or chapparal is asking for disaster. It's like being below sea level on a hurricane coast. You can live in California safely, but only if you remove the natural vegetation.
7
@Jonathan Katz Natural vegetation comes right back. They have had millions of years to adjust to every possible planet variables. What does make sense is to quit building near forests. Second, to discourage couples from giving birth to 8-12 kids who are overpopulating California. In Central California religious right whites take pride in having as many kids as possible, abandoning birth control or vasectomies.
7
@Jonathan Katz
Or if you remove 50% of the population. Neither one of these options is viable. Better to blame Republicans for global warming. People and property will still burn, but at least some on the left (not you) will feel better about it.
3
Let’s keep denying climate change. Let’s keep cutting forest management funds. Let’s scrap all mention of climate change. Ignorance is bliss.
6
My grandmother grew up a gold miner's daughter 120 years ago near the headwaters of Oregon Creek off Henness Pass Rd, the main wagon road into California east of Paradise and north of Donner Pass in I-80. They had at least 6 to 8 feet of winter snow every year on the heels of the Little Ice Age, and their winter door was in the attic gable. They went everywhere in winter on skis they called snowshoes. Juan Rodríguez Cabrillo wrote of snow covered hills around Carmel in 1543 at the beginning of the Little Ice Age. California rarely gets permanent winter snow at 4,000 feet elevation anymore. Industrial pollution only accelerates the warming climate, and with the scant rainfall California has received since last spring we get firestorms.
39
Why wouldn’t it be better for these houses in fire prone areas to have small underground shelters? If other houses have underground shelters for protection from tornados or even nuclear bombs, wouldn’t a shelter be more practical than evacuation from mountain roads? Does a forest fire consume all the oxygen? If so, could oxygen tanks provide enough for an hour or less. An active fire over the immediate area should be gone in less than an hour which the no fuel left to consume. A fire blows over quickly.
3
@Michael D. Hendler In past fire events, the majority of people who hide in shelters have not survived.
4
@Michael D. Hendler
As a native southern Californian, I assure you “A fire blows over quickly” is not the case in CA. Everything is dry for 9 months out of the year. Santa Ana winds have increased in intensity, frequency, duration, and location, which is directly attributable to climate change.
Fire shelters are not practical because of the high potential for earthquakes AND metal doors melting, and an intense fire DOES eat up all the oxygen in its path. I saw guard rails and street signs totally melted away in the area of the Thomas Fire. Yes, the head of a fire moves quickly, but stays burning in the areas already engulfed.
Virginia is green year round, right? The conditions there are wildly different than on the drought-stricken west.
1
As a former long-time resident of northern California, I've long held the opinion that a low-density housing pattern of homesteads scattered along winding roads was the wrong way to develop the Sierra foothills. It makes much more sense to accommodate human settlement there by building vertically- either as standard high-rises or terraced and stepped designs- allowing for a maximum of multi-use development on a minimal footprint, including everything from apartments and offices to medical clinics, markets, and shopping. Surround the villages with wide firebreak areas cleared around the perimeter, with multiple cisterns for water storage and helipads for emergencies. Manage the surrounding forested lands and watersheds appropriately and sustainably, respecting the wild.
Drawing together into clustered communities using high-density residence medium and high-rise apartments provides more people with a view from the hillside, on a more compact footprint on the terrain. It's much more efficient in terms of power and water use, with much less need to drive distances in order to to shop or access services, many fewer power lines to maintain, easier for snowplows in the winter and road maintenance in the summer. Fewer roads and less pavement, and hence less slope erosion and flooding in the headwaters. An oasis in times of crisis.
Yes, there would be tradeoffs. But consider what the status quo of housing construction and development in the Sierras has brought Paradise.
21
@DC Reade When climate change is charged as the biggest culprit this extensive 'urban sprawl' is a HUGE factor. Thanks for sharing!!!
2
@DC Reade
A clear and reasonable voice amidst the blame and sorrow and anger. If only Paradise had been left wild and a clustered settlement such as you describe a distance away.
3
@DC Reade, but isn’t that the whole point of country living? No one wants to spend their whole life living and working in the congested city only to retire and go live someplace else the same way. If so, there’s Florida for that. Plenty safe from natural disasters there.
1
Two words used together that republicans refuse to accept as legitimate: Climate Change. In the meantime, it will just keep on getting worse. Don't these people have children or grandchildren. Don't they care if they live or die or even have some semblance of a livable future? Are they only concerned about the here and now and collecting higher profits through the ever-increasing grinding destruction of our planet?
28
A town that I once live next to was burning, Paradise is gone. Twenty seven thousand homeless and the dead not yet counted. My California, born here, raised here, my home. Small town kid, sawmills and summers working in the mills. Now an old man retired living far from mountains but with memories and deep connections to those small places now burning. Why are they burning? Lots of reasons; many people, now living in places surrounded by forest and isolated canyons, each waiting for this years match or electric spark to set one more fire for yet another year. Pray for us, for them but don’t blame us for the fires and our loss.
30
It's climate change, stupid. But like gun shootings, despite knowing the causes and what we can do about it, we just go on being stupid. Lots of innocents get hurt and killed along the way. When will we learn and when will we act?
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@Bernard Bonn It's worth noting that California has acted. The state has long been a leader in combating climate change and is committed to very ambitious greenhouse gas emission reductions--all with enthusiastic support from voters. All of this, of course, is being challenged by the Denier In Chief and his administration, which is not only blocking climate change action at the federal level, but also mounting a legal challenge to stop California from acting on its own. I want to believe that the truth counts for something, and that my voice matters, but sometimes all that matters is political power.
43
@Bernard Bonn: It is far more than Climate Change. For the last 150 years we Californians have suppressed all forest fires. The forests are not managed because the Federal Government can't get Congress to allocate the billions of dollars that are needed to thin the forests and remove the dead wood. The ever increasing population wants to live in these fire prone areas. Business and real estate interests fight hard against government regulations to make homes safer from fires. The people refuse to pay higher taxes for fire fighting and better roads. Our utilities when are for profit companies spend millions of dollars bribing the government to not force them to properly maintains their networks. Climate Change has a part but it is mainly the unwillingness of our People and Governments from doing what needs to be done.
9
Unfortunately, never!
Trump can come to CA and toss paper towels to us, after he blames, berates and threatens us for circumstances that are beyond our control, (like global climate changes we are addressing and he is denying).
Then we can get a fifth grade teacher to speak slowly and clearly and educate him about that climate change and give him a nice photo op touring a burned area from the safety of his helicopter so he doesn't get his hair mussed up and can't hear the people raging at him.
Then he can mutter something about "Brownie...you're doing a hella-of-job-out there"...and go back to watching Fox and waiting to be told how much he is adored and worshipped.
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@Dano50
I think he will toss squirt guns at you instead of paper towels. Paper towels are to counter hurricanes. Squire guns more appropriate for wildfires.
Is putting the power lines underground too expensive?
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@ivanogre
It is expensive to underground lines. Power companies are regulated, also, so the mention passing on the cost to customers overlooks the fact that state regulators have to pass on any rates which result from costs, and make the system fair to customers.
7
@ivanogre It can and should be done in some areas, but it's not always practical. In the case of the Camp Fire, it appears the fire started in a spot where power lines cross over a river gorge.
3
@JDM
Would it be feasible to have fire suppression devices, triggered by events such as breaks in transmission, attached to the poles and transformers? At the very least, something that would immediately stop the electrical transmission and reducing the sparking? There must be some way to mitigate the risks of remote transmission lines prior to their lighting the fuse of wildfires.
2
I wonder, has the drought conditions of the last few years have played a part in the wildfires?
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@Richard
Hi, Richard. This is Jack Nicas, one of The Times reporters covering the fire in Paradise. Indeed, the dry conditions have been a major factor in the fires and their spread. Authorities last night pointed out that around Paradise, it's been 210 days since the area last received even a half-inch of rain.
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@Jack Nicas But, as reported on wheaterwest.com, dry Octobers are not unusual in California. For every year without fire in a certain region, it's one more year of dead wood accumulation. Without fast wood decay typical of wetter regions that wood has to eventually burn or be collected. It's our choice if it should happen gradually or in one disaster.
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@Richard Hi Richard, According to the Forest Service, as of 12 December 2017, there were 129 million dead trees in California, mostly due to drought and bark beetle. The dry conditions bring the bark beetle. Beetle kill is extremely evident in Colorado, it's more difficult to see from the road in CA because the tress here are not as close together as they are in the Rockies. Nevertheless, trees are dying at an unprecedented rate.
Unfortunately, there are not enough people to clear the dead tress to mitigate the fires to extent necessary.
Additionally, in Los Angeles and surrounding areas like Pasadena, non-native (and some native Oaks) trees are dying by the dozens. One big windstorm can topple several tress in a neighborhood.
the drought and the warmer temperatures are taking their toll on the flora of the state.
Pop this into google: Record 129 Million Dead Trees in California
USDA Forest Service and CAL FIRE Working Together to Address Forest Health and follow the links to find out more about how the USFS is trying to handle this massively dangerous situation in which we live.
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And our cruel President and GOP has the gall to blame the locals and state government. I hope these locals who voted from him and the GOP finally realise that their votes are the reason for their increased agony in the midst of such a catastrophe. Vote for the democratic party in 2020 instead of this cruel GOP who cares nothing about the suffering of the common people.
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The frightening aspect of recent fires (and even some before these)--whether now in Paradise or last year in Redding and Santa Rosa--is that the extreme heat of the fires and the magnitude of the winds create their own weather. Hence the terms we now hear: firestorm, fire tornado, fire hurricane. It is hard to outrun, and even out-drive, such fast-moving conflagrations.
Until this fire in Paradise, the Mendocino Complex fire was described as the largest fire in recorded California history. That was four months ago. Now, the Paradise fire is classified as the most destructive in the state's history. Parts of this state have not received their average amount of rainfall in most years out of the last five.
My spouse and I are in an urban area 160 miles south of Paradise not far from the infamous firestorm of 1991. The air has been filled with smoke since Thursday, and the high winds from the east generated a red flat warning yesterday. We are preparing for the new normal.
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The video is compelling and very sad. However, to take my mind off politics over the weekend I started bingeing shows from the '80s. In one of them, wildfires factored heavily into an entire season of a show, reminding me that this is nothing new. Since then, however, the population of LA County alone has more than doubled, from 8.7 million to more than 18.4 million. That's quite a demand on resources. Plus, these areas naturally want to burn. Perhaps we need to rethink overpopulating people in such arid, resource-thin areas?
8
Or we could find a way to adapt to the environment instead of the other way around.
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I am not personally familiar with Paradise, California. However, back in 1973, I did travel the Sierra Nevada by motorcycle, and remember going through a town called Kyburz. I remembered it, because the road sign said the population was something like 12. Later,, when I got home, I saw a TV news report about a forest fire in the same area. The report included "the entire town of Kyburz was evacuated ahead of the fire" without mentioning its minuscule population. I dismissed the news report as sensationalism.
Well, when I first heard of Paradise being destroyed by fire, I thought the same thing......it must be some minuscule hamlet in the mountains. Well, its not. Its a full fledged town with a population of over 25,000. That's horrific.
For the survivors, this must be a time of great personal agitation. I do hope that the fact that thousands of others were put in the same straits provides some mutual support. This will be a great challenge to the property insurance industry out there. And if I were an underemployed tradesman, I would be heading to California. They will need much help rebuilding.
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I have a proposal for dealing with wildfires:
I propose that the US military be given a new mission, that of fighting wildfires, wherever in America they occur. Why the Army and Air Force instead of the USFS and/or the National Guard? Because the Air Force has tankers standing idle and the Army and Marine Corps have units in barracks in almost every state, especially in the west where wildfires are so common.
Why not the USFS? It already has this mission but is overtaxed to the limit.
Why not the National Guard? Because its members all have day jobs and it is unfair to call them out when other, mostly idle resources are readily available.
Why the Army and the Corps? Because fighting wildfire could be an essential battlefield skill, since in war, setting a massive wildfire could be to an enemy's tactical advantage. It certainly could be an act of terror.
I served in the US Navy as a young man and every sailor is given basic training in fighting shipboard fire, since fire at sea can be catastrophic. This training is basic, so not every sailor is a true damage-control expert but all, of whatever rate or rating, can be thrown into the battle to fight a shipboard fire, directed by the knowledge experts.
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@Will Schmidt perlboy
Great. A domestic Mai Lai, Abu Gharib, Katrina 2.0, and whatever they're messing up in Afghanistan rolled into one. These psychopath generals live in a bubbleworld and they are so insecure about saving face - they just kept throwing things at Vietnam without stepping back and saying "hey, this isn't working. Maybe we should try something different or cut our losses." The temptation to coup and martial law is too great. We already have foreign bases metastacizing, can you imagine the domestic self licking ice cream cones?
Stare Decisis is critical policy.
@Thomas Busse
You seem confused. Stare decisis is a legal theory that puts primary emphasis in litigation on adhering to precedent. What has that legal doctrine to do with mobilizing resources to fight wildfires? Or are you making some subtle point too abstruse for me?
Yes, I agree, the military has committed many stupid and evil acts, including the war in Vietnam, my war, for which I still grieve for those I killed, and should have befriended. But the military does nothing not ordered by politicians, and moral officers should resign before carrying out the orders of corrupt civilian leaders. The officer who issued the order to deploy to the southern border should have resigned in protest. In fact, up and down that chain of command. Sadly, he/they did not. He saluted, said 'yes sir' and did what he was told, surely thinking about his career. But we don't live in a perfect world and wildfire is a continuing fact of life. All the wailing and gnashing of teeth about Trump and climate change will not put out a single ember. Do you have a better suggestion as to where we might find the resources to fight these fires? I used the war fighting argument to perhaps appeal to military planners who might be attracted to my idea, but the mission is a peaceful one. The men and women deployed need not even be armed. Some might even learn useful civilian skills, and "thank you for your service," a phrase I loath when it is directed at me, might mean something honorable.
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@Will Schmidt perlboy
The USFS DOES respond to the fires, and crews from around the West support them. Ventura County Fire was on the Camp Fire in a matter of hours (it’s an 8 hour drive in the best of conditions in a car, not a fire truck.)
Other agencies are helping fight the fires in Ventura County and LA.
Look up the USFS “Hot Shots” and you’ll find out all about their dedication to California’s national forests.
For the second Summer in a row, S.W.Oregon experienced 8 weeks of temperatures well over 100 degrees, and forest fire smoke so thick that I couldn't see the trees across the road for 7 weeks. It was beyond rough. This Winter looks to be very dry again. A fire could start easily in any of the woodlands around here.
If, indeed, the Camp Fire was started by a downed power line or a bad transformer, PG&E is 100% responsible. What alarms me is that PG&E (a monopoly utility corporation) knew that they had a major power outage 15 minutes before all hell broke loose. PG&E's monitoring equipment and "smart meters" should have pin-pointed the trouble, and dispatched crews immediately to the troubled site. But, they didn't.
I don't expect any help for the people of Paradise, California, from "our" President - but, I do expect that PG&E will try to wriggle out of any responsibility, here. I hope that Fire and Forensic Data will bring enough valid evidence to confirm what started the Camp Fire.
Global Warming has made the territory bone dry, but PG&E's faulty equipment lit the fuse. My heart goes out to the people of Paradise. Money or time can never replace what they have lost.
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Not everything is about Trump and people in California have bigger problems than presidential tweets. However, with lives being lost, hospitals on fire, and other untold damage, Trump’s tweet on the subject could be the worst thing I’ve ever heard from the man (and that’s getting under a bar which is nearly to the ground).
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This article calls Paradise, CA "decimated." The Romans would "decimate" a town by killing one man in ten. Unfortunately, Paradise was obliterated, not decimated.
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Well if we need to get specific, only about one in a thousand people were killed, so that'd be 'millenated'.
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@Dan Stackhouse
The official death counts continue to rise dramatically by the day. “...only...” is insulting.
“Senate Bill 901, also protects PG&E from liability for such fires by enabling the utility to pass costs on to ratepayers.”
Companies (corporations) should not ever be allowed to shirk their responsibilities. I mean, didn’t we establish that they were people? If that is the case, they should be for good and for bad.
If I, as an individual, started a fire I would and should be held responsible. A corporation, as an individual, must be as well.
Maybe I should go solar. Maybe everyone should where reasonable. If they aren’t going to play by the rules of decency (ha!), let’s put them out of business.
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@BGal - If the utility was really driven into bankruptcy, they would have no money to pay their employees, and everyone would walk out. What happens next? No electricity.
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@Jonathan the State of California could come in and take over. Fire top management, implement rebuilding of the entire system underground, issue 100 year bonds and start work...
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@Jonathan
There is a giant ball of fire in the sky with an astronomical amount of energy in it. Could probably power the whole world. Progress doesn't always advance because companies that control like oil and nuclear make sure progress isn't made so they can continue to control and reap. Between solar and wind we probably don't need them.
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Perhaps I'm just naive. These fires were seen for quite a few days. Why weren't people evacuated sooner or were they ordered to leave but just wouldn't go? I feel so sorry for all Californians; they are my fellow Americans. People like Trump who can't say or do something helpful should just be quiet. You're only making things worse.
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No. The Camp fire started at 6:30am on Thursday about 10 miles from Paradise, CA. By 7:45 am, it had exploded into Paradise, forcing ‘run for your life’ evacuation. This is widely reported. I live in Chico, 15 miles from Paradise. We are housing evacuees and have many other friends who have lost everything. All have the same story; they literally fled though flames. Lose the blame and judgement, read before you comment.
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@Weave There is absolutely no blame or judgment here. I wanted to know why people weren't evacuated sooner. I hadn't read anything or heard anything about the first signs of fire as opposed to when evacuation was ordered. My comment was a simple request for information, nothing else. You need to withhold your judgment and apologize.
2
@george
Would it help if you read Weave's post again? Slowly this time?
"The Camp fire started at 6:30am on Thursday about 10 miles from Paradise, CA. By 7:45 am, it had exploded into Paradise, forcing ‘run for your life’ evacuation."
So "These fires were seen for quite a few days." is nonsense, and why should we withhold our judgment? Or apologize? Post something sensible, or keep to yourself.....
1
The evidence is overwhelming, Climate Change is one of the key causal factors. I get that everyone is fed up with the “alarmism” but does the Apocalypse actually need to happen before we do something about it?
The US is the main CO2 emitter per capita. You, the American people, have elected a moron as President who thinks this is a “hoax” perpetrated by the Chinese.
What has happened to the US who was leader in Science & Technology, the nation that put a man on the moon?
You have been demoted to a nation of reality TV conspiracy theorists - a banana republic run by fraudsters. God help us all!!!
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And even worse: The smart ones are evil.
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@Barry- yeah, we know!
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@Barry
I am afraid you are totally correct, Barry. Quo vadis, USA?
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I do hope everyone stays safe out there and that this tragedy ends soon.
When the worst is over and the rebuilding begins we shall see whether all those whose grotesquely oversized mansions have burned down will decide to do the right thing and rebuild sustainably by
- cutting down the size of their new builds from excessive to sensible
- employed the latest technology and architectural techniques to minimize the need for AC
- ditch their water wasting pools
- landscape their gardens only with plants suited to the local climate and don’t rely on artificial irrigation
We’ll come to see who’s learned their lesson when the rebuilding frenzy sparks neighborly envy
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@Manny
The plants suited to the local climate are the ones that make these fires. They go dormant and dry in the summer and fall.
Either irrigate to keep plants moist or remove them all.
2
Paradise is a low income working class and retirement community in one of the poorest districts in the state. There were a some mansions; they were vastly outnumbered by trailer parks.
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@Manny
I believe Paradise was a middle class area with a lot of retirees.
1
And where is trump? Last words from his twitter that I'm aware of was his berating CA, blaming the fires on forest management and vowing no more federal $$ for them until they improve. This while he's in Paris, pouting about the election, not being the center of attention, and waiting to meet with his bff putin.
This horrific fire, the death and devastation recording breaking and he's showing CA, the rest of us and the whole world what a soulless, disgraceful, sorry excuse of a human being he is. We can not be rid of him soon enough.
Making donations today. These folks are going to need all the help we can give. Know that so many of us share your grief.
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Tragically, this most destructive fire in California's history will be outperformed within the next few years, because throughout this story there is no mention of anyone doing anything about the causes.
Climate change is one of the biggest causes for the increased severity and frequency of these fires, and of course America isn't doing enough about that, particularly with the "leadership" we have now.
Another cause is overpopulation, which not only drives climate change but makes it more likely that areas hit by wildfires will be highly populated. And naturally, once the debris is cleared away, all the areas hit by this fire will be rebuilt and homes will sell for remarkable amounts, considering they will burn within a decade or so.
I feel badly for people affected by these particular fires, but I will not be donating money to this particular disaster. Government should be helping Americans who are impacted by this, and if it isn't, then we need new governance. And the more times human habitation is destroyed, followed by humans moving right back in, the less sympathetic I get about that area.
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@Dan Stackhouse
The cause is not climate change. Fire is a natural part of this ecology. The cause is people not adapting to it, and building among the native chapparral and forests.
4
@Dan Stackhouse
Because the Fed isn’t doing enough to recognize its role in providing enough support is a poor excuse for the rest of us not to offer whatever assistance we can.
9
@Jonathan Katz
The cause, according to experts cited in other Camp Fire reports, IS climate change. We've had many years of drought in CA, attended by many more big fires. Drive through any part of the Sierra, and you'll see brown, distressed trees ready to burn. This is not natural.
More, from an April, 2016 piece in The Guardian:
The number of trees in California’s Sierra Nevada forests killed by drought, a bark beetle epidemic and warmer temperatures has dramatically increased since last year, raising fears that they will fuel catastrophic wildfires and endanger people’s lives, officials said on Wednesday.
Since 2010, an estimated 66 million trees have died in a six-county region of the central and southern Sierra hardest hit by the epidemic, the US Forest Service said.
21
Climate change is going to continue to worsen the climate in California, which to me means a need for state-wide planning of communities. California must be constructed to protect against the ravages of fire, which means reconstruction in many, many instances.
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Hi, I'm an editor with the Reader Center who is wondering what questions you may have about the relationship between climate change and wildfires. I'm planning a live Q&A with one of our climate change reporters, Kendra Pierre-Louis, to answer some of your questions. She will be live today at 3 p.m. Eastern on Facebook. Tell me what you would like to know and I'll try to get an answer.
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Are there impact studies around the use of water in the affected areas for luxuries such as green gardens and pools?
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@Nicole Phillip Considering that a) Climate change is nearly inevitable at this point and b) much of California has already been developed without fire safety in mind, what if anything can be done to avoid or lessen the intensity of these fires?
1
@Nicole Phillip
Hi Nicole,
The stark increase in forest fires coincides with the Obama administration's revision of forestry management regulations in 2012. As put by TownHall:
"Eco-purists want no cutting, no thinning – no using fire retardants in “sensitive” areas because the chemicals might get into streams that will be boiled away by conflagrations. They prevent homeowners from clearing brush around their homes, because it might provide cover or habitat for endangered species and other critters that will get incinerated or lose their forage, prey and habitats in the next blaze. They rarely alter their policies during drought years.
The resulting fires are not the “forest-rejuvenating” blazes of environmentalist lore. They are cauldron-hot conflagrations that exterminate wildlife habitats, roast bald eagle and spotted owl fledglings alive in their nests, boil away trout and trout streams, leave surviving animals to starve, and incinerate every living organism in already thin soils … that then get washed away during future downpours and snowmelts. Areas incinerated by such fires don’t recover their arboreal biodiversity for decades." (Paul Driessen, senior policy adviser to the Congress of Racial Equality)
Please have your reporter comment on the very clear link between the elimination of longstanding, effective common-sense forest management techniques by the Obama administration and the rash of forest fires the country has suffered since 2012.
5
Trump is his never ending struggle to say inappropriate divisive non sense, opined the California forest service was probably responsible for the fires because their poor forestry management. The downed power lines cause seems worth major investigation. CA legislators have a lot to explain about their letting power companies evade financial responsibility but passing the costs on to consumers. The fire danger in CA is so extreme in certain areas that to let power lines fall into disrepair speaks volumes about what Americans think about upgrading infrastructure.
8
@c harris
It is not Americans but the administration that spends the money elsewhere.
In the face of this horror Donald Trump goes political and blames the State of California for the fires. I know that the people affected by these fires, from victims to fire fighters, must know that Americans care deeply even if the leadership in Washington does not.
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As I have followed this tragic story, several things are brought into bold relief, the most prescient is that the man our White House woke up on Saturday morning in his plush and comfortable Parisian accommodations, and his first thought was hateful, to disparage and chastise California for "poor forest management"(which is a federal responsibility) and threaten communities of retirees, teachers, veterans and children who have lost everything --- their homes, their schools and their businesses, with the withholding of future federal funds for fires. As always, the enormity of multiple ironies escape this little man, who is without courage, without integrity, and surely, without a soul.
Marylouise Markle
State College, PA
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@mlmarkle
Absolutely about Trump's insensitivity and blame. His solution to the mass shootings is to arm students, teachers, rabbis, bar bouncers, etc. Solution to climate change: forest management.
32
@mlmarkle
Trump is not promoting "forest management." He is promoting handing over our national forests to timber companies so they can clear cut them. Of course, he has no idea what he actually means — just who supports him. Zinke and company are behind this.
76
Those pesky trees. Too bad we need them to breath.
14
Two towns — Mexico Beach, Florida and Paradise, California — have been completely obliterated by climate related events in the past three weeks alone.
It's time we did two things:
(1) Kick the deniers and profiteers out of the people's government — on all levels, and
(2) Start taking adaptive measures (while continuing to fight the root causes of climate change).
Adaption means that the devastation of climate change is already upon us, and we must take measures to protect ourselves. Stop building on beaches. Thin the forests around mountain towns. Store and conserve water.
Senator Jeff Merkely (D-Oregon) has introduced a bill to fund protecting communities against wildfires and build up our firefighting capacity. He points out that thinning around Sisters, Oregon, saved that town from burning down as a wildfire swept past it.
Such measures must be supported on all levels of government. There is a lot each community can do — and it's essential to do it now.
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@Philip S. Wenz by kick the deniers out are you suggesting that only people with correct views should be allowed in government? Are you suggesting that the government should ban certain people and potentially overturn the will of voters? Sound very Trumpian.
I agree that we need to start adaptive measures now, but language like yours suggests abandoning democracy. Which, by the way, would certainly remove the idea that it’s the people’s government. It is the people’s government now under the framework of a constitutional republic. I would prefer that with its flaws to a dictatorship run by Mao’s party of the people with its re-education camps.
@Patrick
It is the responsibility of government workers to serve the American people. Climate deniers are not serving the American people.
If Trump and co are determined to be traitors will you also be in favor of keeping them in government to make sure we have a nice mix of traitors and non traitors serving? How about if they are simply convicted of crimes, say embezzling taxpayer funds for their own benefit? Should we have a good balance of criminals and non criminals to insure all viewpoints are equally represented?
1
The prime hazard in 2018, in this terrain, seems to be the growth of ground cover, in the rainy months, that is especially prone to become highly flammable in dry months. What can be done to significantly reduce such ground cover near populated areas?
4
@Penseur That's a misconception. Paradise and other Northern California towns are not in the middle of a vast forest, but in woodlands surrounded by grasslands, a naturally dry area compounded by drought and warmer temperatures. You can't do controlled burns in the middle of town, and people are pretty good about keeping their yards clear. There's no good way to just burn off the dry grass that covers much of the north state.
10
Very tricky dealing with these kinds of dynamics, wondering if there are precedents or models elsewhere we can learn from.
If you remove growing vegetation to prevent fires, then you have unstable soil and possible landslides.
We are in new territory in land and development management.
5
@Sarah: Thanks both to you and Barbara for your explanations. It would seem from what you say that there is no known precaution that can be used to keep this very combustible vegetation away from threatened housing. I do recall, Barbara, being in Santa Barbara once in April when a rain soaked hillside collapsed, shutting off the coastal highway south for several days. It is a shame that such a beautiful area is so hazardous for habitation.
Terrifying, can not imagine the horror the people were and are experiencing.
I have read that the people of Paradise lost their power 15 minutes prior to the fire and that P G & E had a transmission line go out. Anymore news on that? I know some fires in the past have been started by downed lines.
8
@smf PG&E was sending alerts to people's phones announcing a planned outage during the peak "red flag" critical fire conditions that were expected, but they never did cut the power. Fifteen minutes before the fire, their systems showed the transmission line issue, but they didn't announce that until later.
8
Thousands of soldiers stationed at the Mexico-USA border waiting for a few hundred or even a thousand migrants who will be too hungry and tired to barely make it, let alone "invade" the USA. All at a cost of 200 million dollars. Those soldiers could be helping put out the fires in CA, protect civilian life by helping evacuations and setting up relief centers. They could also be re-building Puerto Rico.
279
@Marc
that's trump for you.
17
@Marc
Do you seriously believe that just waving the current convoy of migrants in would not result in many more later? And do you seriously believe that the social/public resources the migrant population consumes/requires are not needed by the victims of these terrible fires?
8
@Eva
Red herrings, Eva. Nobody suggested "waving the migrants" in to the US. There's a process in place to evaluate asylum claims. It works. Anyone who is not granted asylum doesn't get in. It's that simple.
Your comment suggests that you're paying to much attention to President Trump's lies, and not enough to the actual facts.
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