Brining turkey is like whenever i go to O'Hare and scream out "spontaneously" for my wife to video and post that I need a wiccan doula and birth circle because I'm having a post-natal crisis. Brining is about as meaningful as that contrivance.
1
The low heat method is all my mother ever used for any large piece of meat, turkey or roast beef. Her grandmother, a Scottish immigrant who had been a cook in a wealthy household, probably taught her to cook. Certainly it was not her own mother that imbued her with the subtle intricacies of the proper weather to bake meringues, the luxury of citrus curds, or the advantage of having cool hands for baking. 325 degrees and no weird flavors added to the roasting pan, because the gravy is as important as the meat.
1
After having dry breast meat no matter what trick I tried, for the last 15 years I've been brining for just a few hours, then rinsing well, and stuffing the turkey under the skin rather than in the cavity, with a fairly moist stuffing, roast at 400F. We eat 2-3 turkeys a year roasted this way and the big downside is I never have leftover breast meat to use in other dishes as my husband so likes the results when cooked this way!
I started this path using Maria Eugénia Cerqueira da Mota's Roast Stuffed Turkey recipe, but have adjusted it some for us over the years. It works well with birds up to 12 pounds. If you need more meat than that, it's better to cook two birds than to deal with a huge one anyway!
I have butterflied and brined 3 chickens in the last 2 months I then tried not brining 2 and really cant tell the moisture difference. I do prefer the less salty meat and better flavor without. I use the butterfly technique so bird is done quickly and coat the outside with a melted butter with a herb mix coated on then cooked at 450 to 165 degrees internal. It comes out moist and delicious. I initially tried 160 but could find red spots so went to higher temp. I think the key is more even cooking. I am thinking of spatchcocking a turkey now but I imagine it would take to much room in the oven as a chciken fills the grate over the cookie pan.
Trying it for the first time this year so we'll see how it goes. If it flops then we'll go old school for Christmas. No big deal. Nothing ventured, nothing gained - but I'll never deep fry! .
My favorite roasted chicken recipe is the salt & pepper (and sage/rosemary/thyme) recipe previously published in The NY Times. Wondering if it’s just as good for thanksgiving turkey. Anyone?
Sorry, but I stopped paying attention after you used the term "food-media influencers". What next, cooking advice from Kim Kardashian?
The question of whether or not to brine or apply a dry rub was settled long ago and the answer was an emphatic YES. For the sake of your guests, do one or the other. After decades enduring the annual ritual of pretending to enjoy flavorless and/or dry turkeys cooked any number of ways, brining and rubs have allowed the masses to enjoy turkey. There is no alternative, there is no going back, and the overall question does not require any addition discussion.
1
I have seasoned my turkey well for over 20 years and tented it with foil until the end when I let it brown. Never a complaint. No need to brine.
I’ve used wet and dry brining both of which definitely produced moister and tastier birds. But the problem of salty gravy is unresolved especially for the wet brined experiences
Poultry tip:
Air dry your turkey for a day or two after you brine.
High heat to start, then slow cooking to finish. No basting.
Super crispy skin and moist turkey meat.
1
If you're not going to stuff it, cook it over indirect heat on the Weber kettle. It's easy to do right, and if you do it right, it works. Every time. But I like a stuffed bird, and so, this year, I plan to try the upside down method. I've tried brining, both wet and dry, and it seems a whole lotta nonsense from food writers who have to write about something this time of year.
Turkey brining is just so “special .” We’ve enjoyed thanksgiving forever without this affection. So glad it’s disappearing!
2
So if you’ve never tried it, why such pleasure that the method is now falling from grace? Sounds like a good helping of schadenfreude.
1
After struggling for years to cook a decent turkey, we began brining our turkey for the past four years, and now it always comes out moist and delicious. Always. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
8
After a successful 8 years of brining and roasting my turkey (oven and/or charcoal, this year, I'm going to section and sous vide the individual sections of the bird, then crisp the skin on the grill. Not your Rockwell vision, but I anticipate no one will notice with my presentation and it will either be approximately wonderful or I will be drummed out of the family. We'll see . . .
3
The Cook's Illustrated recipe for "Better Than Best Roast Turkey" (November, 2000), with its detailed yet simple instructions for brief (5 hours) brining, changed our Thanksgiving celebration forever, and for the infinitely better. I finally learned to like roast turkey when that recipe came out, and I will never stop brining.
3
Spatchcock your bird. Much better results.
2
For food historians, you can find the turkey brining story by Russ Parsons, Los Angeles Times deputy food editor, on Page 130 of the December 19, 1996 edition. He credits chef Mark Peel of Campanile, who said he started brining turkeys at his restaurant three years earlier and prepares about 100 that way.
“To tell you the truth, I can’t remember why,” Peel said. “My sense, in an unscientific way, is that it gives a tenderness to the meat.”
The story also quotes Alan Sams, an associate professor of poultry science at Texas A&M “who has published several papers on brining poultry [and] says it’s basically an electrical thing.”
“ ‘What is happening is that salt [the chloride part more than the sodium] penetrates into the muscle,’ Sams says. ‘The charged ions cause the muscle fibers to swell, and that sucks in even more water. It also binds the water to the protein, meaning the meat holds more water during cooking. That’s what causes the juiciness effect.’
Parsons continues, “all of this was documented in a 1977 paper by five scientists from the University of Florida.”
3
It's a little tricky at first but at some point you have to accept that food is a prop for this holiday, a device we use to create opportunities for gratitude, reflection, connection and love. If you serve a brilliant and breathtaking set of dishes on Thanksgiving and in so doing manage to "get through the day" and "ward off disaster" you will have earned a solid F. As I understand Thanksgiving, heroism, martyrdom, brilliance and grinny civility are all betrayals of this beautiful holiday. Invite people you want to be with and enjoy the day together.
2
We will have capon for thanksgiving this year. The truth came out the other week, none of us really like turkey. Capon is delicious.
2
@ Nycgal New York
Tradition dictates that only wild turkey should be cooked on Thanksgiving. Alas, it is not easily available and I would not want to think of its diet in an industrialized and agricultural area. My choice is a farm-raised pheasant, marinated in dry white wine with herbs for 24 hours, wine injected with syringe in the flesh, and then baked at 375F with frequent basting. When done to crispy brown, one inserts the hand in the body cavity and rips the bird asunder by lifting its rib cage -- all the subsequent carving is then easy.
1
@Nycgal
My mother once told me that it took her and her sisters a while to convince their Italian immigrant mother (from Naples) to cook a turkey for Thanksgiving. My grandmother thought that turkey was too bland, and would cook a capon. When I was growing up, my mother would occasionally serve capon, but these days they are hard to find, and usually a small fortune per pound, unfortunately. You are right, they ARE delicious.
Everything old is new again.
2
And then there was the 1996 article in the Los Angeles Times about turkey brining -- but East Coast writers never acknowledge that trends start in the West.
2
Is it that important where turkey brining started?? Besides Chez Panisse is widely given credit for its innovations from coast to coast.
1
I use a modified A. Brown brine for a 13 lb Bird, which is 8 oz. salt, 1 1/2 Gal water & 3/4 cup honey. Placed in a 16 QT stock pot for 24 hours in the Frig., it is flipped once. Then, the Bird is set on a platter and comes up to room temp. for 4 hours. I spray olive oil throughout the bird and liberally coat with Old Bay. I cook it breast side down for 15 minutes at 475, pull it, cover the back, legs, and wings with foil, and then let it cook at 415 for 1 hour 15 min. Then, I flip it, and let the top finish for 15 minutes. I pull it, and tent with foil for 20 minutes and it is perfect!
Doesn't brined turkey have an elevated sodium content? Isn't that bad for many people with elevated blood pressure?
1
Resist the dominant paradigm! :) Imagine yourself unleashed,
smacking down a mean plate of ribs with a side of cornbread. We did, and it has been glorious.
4
I did not notice any of the experts in this article mention putting the turkey in the oven at a high heat at first and after 30 minutes turning the heat down to low and slow. Getting the turkey up to bacteria killing temp quickly is a good precaution to learn.
One of the experts mentioned he would be smoking his turkey without brining. That is kind of scary. Leaving any raw meat at 250 degrees for 6-8 hours is walking on the wild side. Brining with salt helps kill bacteria so you can cook low and slow.
I am a nervous nelly so I will brine for 24 hours and then smoke. I brine in angry orchard apple cider and salt. So easy.
1
Cheap frozen bird brined in a cooler with varying proportions of frozen limeade, salt, apple cider vinegar, whole coriander, star anise, garlic, onion, bay leaves, ice water to cover, and all the Thanksgiving prep apple skins.
Go ahead, skip your brine this year. You'll be back.
7
I've never brined a turkey, and probably never will. The fact that it was just a 20-year fad indicates that there was never a reason to do so.
3
I love my turkey! I do it differently every year, and I've never had a bad one. I've brined and not brined, but I always use my family's traditional corn bread & sausage dressing. My Mom didn't cook the sausage before hand, but I do! As for switching, I'll save the fried chicken, or the capon, or the crab for other days, but Thanksgiving is for turkey! I might try the bacon wrap that Michael Arbitman mentions in his comments though. I'll also serve my homemade Alaska Low-Bush Cranberry sauce (aka lingon berres.) Friends bring the rest for our wonderful gathering, and the best part of all is enjoying and being thankful for each other's company.
1
concering comments about brining with tap water just making a soggy bird. I have always brined with apple juice ( a couple gallons) salt and herbs. Sugar is optional then
2
I have been baking turkeys for 50 years, using this method: after the usual cleaning of the bird, cover all surfaces with thick sliced bacon, using toothpicks as pins. Fill the cavities with fresh veggies of your choice, especially root veggies,onion, etc. This stuffing will steam the bird from the interior, while the bacon will self baste the exterior.
Bake at 325 degrees until the legs are slightly shrunk, indicating that the bird is ready, or use a thermometer centered in a breast. When the company is gathered, as the bird is resting on the counter before carving, encourage the guests to pick the crisped bacon off the bird as an appetizer. Y'all won't believe the responses!
3
@michael arbitman I love this idea! I've been using a similar recipe for years (without the bacon) and it always produces a juicy, flavorful bird. I just never realized the veggies in the cavity helped to do this. Thanks for this insight. Next time I make turkey I'm going to try the bacon wrap. Brining? Who needs brining?? Here's the recipe I use. It came from a chef who was inspired by his Native American roots. https://rootsliving.com/?p=3288
Last year there was just two of us, so instead of turkey I roasted a capon. My turkeys roasted for past Thanksgiving have always been delicious (brined and not brined). OMG, the roasted capon was beyond delicious... flavorful, succulent... simply wonderful. It is now our Thanksgiving dinner, replacing the roast turkey dinner. (I always make stuffing.. last year it was with figs and prosciutto... this year it will be chestnuts and apple). Happy Thanksgiving!
3
In San Francisco, dungeness crab is the Thanksgiving meal of choice. Go down to Fisherman's Wharf, buy fresh cracked crab, take home, unwrap and serve with lemon wedges and crusty sourdough. Done and done.
1
I feel like brining is quite a US thing - I've never brined a turkey. For turkeys (and roast chicken too) I just rub it all with butter, salt and pepper and stick it in the oven to roast. If it gets too brown, cover with foil. Make sure it doesn't overcook. Result: one nice moist turkey.
3
My sister's mother-n-law lives on the side of a mountain near the Oregon-California border, off grid, wood stove, wood heat, etc. She cooks a turkey, ham, wild rice dressing and mashed potatoes that are the best I've ever eaten. While all of this is cooking in the wood-fired oven, several pies are baking above in the propane little ovens. Delicious.
2
Have done a brined turkey. It was an improvement over the standard turkey. However, far superior to turkey, particularly if you like dark meat, is a goose. No need to brine and you have the option of saving the goose fat (freezes well) for frying and roasting vegetables, etc. Also thankfully, grocery stores have started carrying them in quantity during the holidays. A duck or two is also a great alternative. You might have to do a little homework to get it right, but it is no more trouble than a turkey. Crispy, juicy and delicious!
1
@Jiminy
To each his own.
I bought a goose once, in the 70's, and innocently cooked it like a turkey. No brining, but I stuffed it with rye bread, celery, onions and walnuts, rubbed the outside with salt and garlic, and put it in the oven.
It was virtually inedible... and very embarrassing! There was hardly any meat on that bird, and what there was was completely dried out --my fault, not the bird's -- and the stuffing came out gamey, because Who knew from apples or saurkraut? If my Uncle Joe, from Poltava, had been around, I might have saved some goose grease for his hair -- he always used to joke about it -- but alas, both were long gone by then.
These days, I just buy a kosher turkey from Trader Joe's: It's a high-quality bird that I don't have to think about brining, and my mother's recipe for stuffing works beautifully!
so, with apologies to my Spanish-speaking friends, we'll soon say ¡Listo el pavo! ... and you can write your own "goose is cooked" joke.
1
Everyone I cook for prefers dark meat. Solution -- lots of turkey thighs on the Big Green egg. Moist, smokey, delicious, and easy. But the best part is that I have to stay outside and drink beer (wait, did I say that, I meant "tend the fire").
3
organic heritage bird, no brining necessary. fresh, delicious. also, all the sweet potatoes.
1
For the third year in a row I will be using Julia Child's recipe for roast turkey that America's Test Kitchen revisited a few years ago. The recipe has you deconstruct the bird and then give the breast a quick sear and headstart as it needs longer to cook. I'd recommend the recipe to anyone that is looking for a fabulously juicy and robust turkey. please try it and think of Julia.
5
So...what does Alton Brown think nowadays about wet bringing? As your article notes, he kicked off the nationwide obsession with it and I was one of his devotees. 'Brined my enormous bird in a brand new painters bucket in the freezing cold garage. That was the best turkey my family and I ever ate! It was the last time I gave such effort. Still, I treasure Alton in part for giving me long-lasting bragging rights for an unforgettable meal. I would love to know his thoughts on this method now.
4
@Outbeyond My husband has been using Mr.Brown's brine recipe for years. He used to smoke it on a traditional smoker, but several years ago we invested in a Big Green Egg, and that has become his preferred method of cooking/smoking. The recipe has delivered a moist, tasty turkey worthy of a magazine cover for many years, and I don't think my husband will stop brining simply because it has become unfashionable, he and I believe it works!
2
Buy a real bird and you will already be ahead of the game. This Jacques Pepin recipe produces a succulent turkey and you can replace steaming with poaching in a court bouillon. https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/12941-jacques-pepins-steamed-and-roasted-turkey
If you choose to simply roast in the oven, I suggest spatchcocking as the bird as it will cook more evenly.
Also, choose plenty of juicy wines to serve, Morgon, Brouilly, Barbera, Macon to keep you and the guests lubricated in case the turkey goes dry.
6
You're forgetting the leftovers. You know all those hokey recipes you'll publish to disguise that dried out leftover turkey? Forget about 'em. Brined turkey leftovers are divine picked straight out of the fridge.
6
“All of this insanity and these trends and this struggle about how we cook turkey are ridiculous, and we are continuously and always disappointed,” said Samin Nosrat
I don't believe the insanity of cooking trends is limited to turkey.
I have both brined and not brined and at the end of it all, I always enjoy the company of whoever came to dinner.
Happy T-Day and enjoy your turkey, however you cook it.
8
Without question, the finest turkeys I've made or tasted have been brined. And much of the finest meat and roasts cooked in a variety of ways too...But there is a trick to working with brined or salted preparations.
Presuming the correct strength brine (or dry salt) and it's duration, there MUST be a drying/resting period after brining where the salt spreads and balances itself throughout the flesh.
Depending on the strength of the brine (or dry salting) the inner portions of the flesh will generally not be penetrated during a normal brining time.
A stronger brine will penetrate more deeply and quickly, but may be far too salty: the surface will always have more salt than the interior and the fullest effects of improved texture, moistness, and flavors will not be realized.
Nowadays I do not cook whole turkeys and instead part a small bird and sear it hard on a gas barby, then put the browned pieces in flat deep pan on a thick bed of carrots, celery, onions (pearl onions are good) mushrooms...And then cover tightly with foil to steam the bird on a lowered heat. An hour or so. This is just exquisite.
But to illustrate the brining: the cut up turkey parts are brined for 6 hours in one cup of salt and 1/2 cup of sugar per gallon of water. After the brine, dry the pieces very thoroughly and put back in the fridge *uncovered" for about 4-6 hours.
This allows the salt and the sugar to offset each other and to balance themselves throughout the meat.
1
I will continue to brine because between brining and my roasting recipe it results in a turkey that my guests rave about.
I only use a half cup of salt when I brine, because my wife is sensitive to overly salty foods so I err on the side of caution. And this amount of salt works well.
The turkey I brine comes frozen from my local grocery store who gives it to me for free after I spend $300. It's nothing fancy at all. But between the brine and the roasting it comes out great.
6
@Joe J. I guess that’s why I don’t need to brine to have my guests rave about my turkey. I buy a fresh turkey from a locally raised turkey farm : HoKa. Spending less than 5 bucks per guest seems a small price for a perfect juicy turkey that requires only throwing on some seasoning and sticking half an onion inside and doesn’t have the texture of a brined turkey which i personally don’t love.
2
Having lived with a mother that would turn a turkey to chalk and a rib roast to a dry mass, I have over the past 15 years welcomed the wet brining method. It allows a buffer for cooking the turkey while providing enough of the broth to make a succulent gravy.
I agree that there are other methods that might result in a juicy turkey, but I have found that a basic brine results in enough broth/drippings to create a flavorful gravy as long as the salt is added at the end of the cooking process.
Brining does not equal roasting. The brining adds enough liquid to the turkey to absorb the initial heat. Think of putting a cheesecake or creme brulee in a water bath to reduce thermal shock. The brine is the buffer. The roasting will give the crisp skin and juicy breast.
5
Your poor mom! Mine too was capable of drying out the main event. We used to suggest saving it in the car trunk in case we were ever stuck in snow. Ha!
It shouldn’t take two decades to figure out whether one thing is better than the other.
5
@jammer
I don't think it does, jammer. An expertly brined, dried, then cooked turkey is better. And much less difficult because both breast and darker meat will retain their juices.
Cooking turkey can be difficult because of these two types of meat. Brining makes it way easier. But it takes a bit of experience to do well.
2
Since there's just three of us we sous vide a whole turkey breast and then quickly sear in a cast iron pan. It's a set it and forget it way to cook turkey and you don't have to worry about overcooking.
1
Why bother with all these strange rituals? Just use a convection oven and your poultry will never be dry.
2
In 1999 I tasted a brined turkey and said never again. Briners have done irrevocable harm to our national holiday. They owe us all an apology.
5
Skin not crispy. Can’t make gravy. Enough said.
1
@Lisads
That's because the meat wasn't allowed to dry and balance the salt, Lisads. You want the bird very dry before cooking. This applies to all sorts of meat.
Happy Thanks!
1
I have never brined (except pork which I do believe can make a difference sometimes). Have always read not to “wet” poultry, dry after unwrapping, then a dry brine or simply cook.
I do one poultry recipe where I briefly marinate in lemon juice and olive oil. But back to turkey (and other poultry): I dry brine only if at all. I use heritage turkeys. The standard poultry offered in the US are big-breasted, and they will always be dry. Why do many seem to say that big is better. ??? That is like eating sawdust. The heritage variety are full of flavor and have bigger bones. Been doing them several years.
1
Dude! It’s Thanksgiving! It’s turkey and gravy and mashed potatoes and whatever. It’s reminiscent. It’s good on its own terms.
Foodies apparently have some primal need to make everything novel, which of course leads eating into the same territory as fashion. That inevitably suggests Oscar Wilde’s famous quote: “Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.”
Eating in general, and Thanksgiving in particular, shouldn’t devolve into showing off how cool one is. A level of craftsmanship in the kitchen is worthwhile. It’s good to take care in preparing food and do it well, which leads to satisfying one’s guests. But stay calm and keep it within reason. When you carry that too far, it’s just self-indulgent braggadocio.
15
@Marshall Doris
You're my hero. I agree with everything you say but especially love your first paragraph and the Oscar Wilde quote. For the past few years, my son-in-law has been frying the turkey. I dislike it so much, I lose my appetite. It robs you of the aroma and sense of well-being greeting you when you walk in. And don't get me started on the sous vide. Anyway, great comments!
4
Deep frying is the best, an hour and an 18 lb turkey is done.
2
I switched to dry brining years ago and would never go back to wet. The results are better than wet brining without the hassle. I haven't done a side by side taste test, brining vs. not brining, but the dry brine is so easy I don't mind doing it.
2
I never saw the point. The meat comes out strangely mealy, and it just tastes salty, not flavorful. The only reliable rules in my experience are (1) get a small turkey, under 15 lbs, (2) low and slow 325 degrees, 15 minutes per pound. Basting, in my experience, also works, but it has detractors. Turkey is an old-line harvest feast food. Keep it simple.
8
Start with a FRESH bird, and there is no need to brine it to make it moist and flavorful. And no, there is NO SUCH THING as a fresh turkey in any supermarket. Every supermarket turkey has been frozen, period. A USDA label of "fresh" means only that the turkey was never DEEP frozen to 0 degrees or less. The only place to get a turkey that has never been frozen is to buy it directly from the farm that raised and slaughtered it.
6
To brine or not to brine isn’t the question. Rather it’s why people who don’t eat turkey would not only read an article on the subject, but comment on it as well.
13
I fortunately live in a place where small farmer’s raise heritage birds out in the open where they belong feeding on insects. Long slow roast of a big bird basted with white wine over and under a cheesecloth cover. We sit by the fire, sip wine, and talk while the roasting turkey fills the house with mouthwatering smells. Everybody has seconds. Spend some real money on the bird and stay away from frozen supermarket Franken Birds. Brillât-Savarin French philosopher and gourmet extolled the virtues of American turkeys as did Benjamin Franklin who thought it should have been the National Bird instead of the bald eagle. Sadly, modern mass food production, crazy breast-heavy birds that can’t walk have ruined the noble turkey’s reputation. And created just as crazy fad “solutions” like brining trying to turn the proverbial sow’s ear, or rather inedible result, into something other than what it is: flavorless and dry. Good cooking starts with good ingredients that need only respect and simple preparation to be delicious.
6
Ditto. Your sensibilities match mine. I understand — one year we rented a casita in Santa Fe at Christmas.
All of you food “experts” need to “rest” for a few years.
5
After millennia we finally know the truth around cooking fowl!! Last year is so passé...
5
I cook turkey throughout the year...and in all those years have never brined - dry or wet. Cook the giblets, neck and wing tips in chicken broth and aromatics for at least 4 hours. Coat the turkey in butter and salt. Roast the turkey in a convection oven, starting breast side down. About an hour before it is done, flip it over to allow the breast to brown. Dark meat is thoroughly cooked, white meat is moist and not over cooked. Makes great gravy with the broth and the drippings... easy, peasy ...although as I get older I’m relying on a stronger younger son to flip the larger ( 18 lbs ) turkeys, over.
5
@Nancy Spradling - any suggestion on how to do the upside-down and flip method and keeping the nice shape of the turkey?
@uxf We've used the ultimate turkey rack for about 8 years - in a convection oven. Best turkey technique ever. We've had farm-raised local and supermarket turkeys.
1
I didn’t grow up here and my first experience of it - an invitation to visit with a boyfriend’s family - was a long wait for a meal in a room with people who are related but did not seem to like one another much. The food was heavy and dry at the same time. After that experience, I just go camping or backpacking over Thanksgiving. Fast forward 15 years and I meet my future husband who loves the Thanksgiving meal. I spent a few years trying to tame this beast of a meal. I would try this and that. I even prepared it while out at Joshua Tree National Park. That felt very pioneer and so was fun. But I have to say, I just don’t love turkey. I don’t like gravy. Last year, I threw in the towel and prepared filet mignon as main course (that took about 15 minutes to pan fry and stick into the oven to finish). My husband made an Ottolenghi potato salad. I made chocolate mousse for dessert. I spent the afternoon chatting with my family. We took naps. It was EASY! This year, I am preparing Melissa Clark’s two feta brined chicken. I am done with turkey.
5
I am also not fond of turkey as it has been marketed in my lifetime. But if you can find one that is heritage and that has been pecking the meadow where cattle have grazed you might like it better. Many Americans tend to love big breasts in their turkeys and women — what a waste — pretty tasteless in every sense of the word (not a put down of those who are endowed but a statement of lack of subtlety). Heritage, pastures turkeys are moist and flavorful and more dark than white and dry.
4
Kim, you have left out the most important trick to roasting a fantastic turkey! Any crime novel fan will tell you that in any dead body, the liquid will pool via gravity. That's how the police can tell if a body has been moved. Gravity works!
Transfer the concept to a turkey. From the time that you acquire it, keep it BREAST DOWN, and, also roast the big dead body of the bird BREAST DOWN, only turning it on its back for the last half hour or so to brown the breast.
You will find that an ample amount of turkey moisture has gravitational migrated to the breast and it will be absolutely delicious. The back area of the bird, being dark meat, is naturally juicier and will also be delicious and amply moist.
To add flavor, add something juicy such as apples, applesauce, flavorings to the cavity and they will settle to the back of the breast when it is breast down and baste it from the inside. What's not to like?
5
@Ron
Agreed. Also, the temperature is higher at the top of the oven than at the bottom, so cooking the bird upside down -- a la Adelle Davis*, BTW -- applies more heat to the dark meat, which has more fat.
--
* Cf. "Let's Eat Rat To Keep Fat"
I hope the brining everything goes away. Recently had yet another sea water with pork flavoring pork chop from a high-end butcher after being assured they didn’t brine it. They must have bought it brined.
Having been a professional chef for over twenty five years I’ve cooked plenty of turkey. I have to say I get completely annoyed every year by all of the articles about how your holiday meal will be a failure if you don’t this or you do that. Here is what I do for turkey. Take it out of the wrapper and thaw uncovered so the skin is exposed for up to three days. On the day you are going to cook mix some room temperature unsalted buyer with salt and pepper and any herbs you would like such as sage or time. Gently separate the skin and rub the butter underneath the skin of the breast, legs, and thighs. Roast in the oven at 325 in a roasting pan with a rack until it reaches 160 degrees at the thigh. Remove from the oven and let rest at least an hour. Your breast will be juicy and flavorful. The golden rule is to keep it simple, don’t over handle the turkey, ( less prone to food borne bacteria) and relax and have fun!!
20
I've used a simple recipe for 40 years and more. Roast at 325 covered with cheesecloth for ever (6 hours?), until it turns golden crispy brown. I've never had a dry-white-meat turkey, always moist and delicious.
My mother's recipe used bacon strips covering the whole turkey, but I don't eat bacon any more. By the time the turkey made it to the table, the bacon had been snacked off entirely.
3
Agree with Uncle John below.....get a local turkey and support your local farms. Re: brining - our family can't be bothered. We've been slow grilling our locally grown turkey each year, with great success. This year we're trying a spatchcocked turkey using the dry-brined method that Ms. Rogers, an incredibly knowledgeable chef, used for meats before cooking. It simply means salting the turkey, while it sits in the fridge - as detailed in this article. What could be easier? Grilling is also great for freeing up the stove for all the other Thanksgiving dishes.
8
We dry brined our turkey last year with kosher salt and some herbs it was super easy. It turned out so incredible that we’re doing the same this year.
This reminds me of a Christmas we spent with British friends in a small village outside of Oxford, England. My son, a professional chef, took the turkey in his own hands when it was taking too long in the Aga (Brits like to party a lot so dinner was not moving as it should). He fired up their Weber, spatchcocked it, and threw it on the grill. Done. And of course this being the English countryside, that turkey was the real pastured deal. Delicious and our hosts were delighted.
4
This article fails to discuss the difference between commercially processed turkeys and locally grown, farm-raised turkeys. Commercial store-bought turkey is effectively already brined. Brining it equates to over-brining it. When cooking a turkey that was walking around just days before you are preparing it, and is packed with no additives, there are many differences. The meat is less moist & dense and the bird cooks much faster than a commercial bird. And because it is more active, the meat tends to be chewier if not a bit tough, and the flavor is not as pronounced. Brining brings moisture into the meat, enhances the flavor, and it makes all the difference in a farm-raised bird.
15
@Uncle John excellent points.
Actually not my experience. I cook heritage, pastures and have never brined.
Has anyone ever bothered to ask the turkey?
9
Lolol this article cracks me up. Let’s face it, brining caught on mainly because retailers saw a huge opportunity to sell people more stuff. Even my local dingy bodega was selling brining kits last year lol. Turkeys can be challenging no matter the method, a lot of it is luck of the draw. I’ve had disastrous turkey from exceptionally good cooks, and amazing turkey from people who have never cooked one before. But my favorite of all time was a few years ago when my girlfriend tried brining for the first time. She spent hours preparing and created the biggest mess. We both acknowledged the end result was as dry and lifeless as any turkey we’ve ever had lolol. But she really poured her heart and soul into it. We still laugh about it to this day.
6
I love turkey. Call it what you want to,but I always thought soaking a giant bird in salty water sounded wacky
11
Dry Brine, low and slow on the Rotisserie, final blast of heat for crisping. Result? Tender juicy white meat and dark meat almost falling from the bone.
3
To quote Elizabeth David "...quite a performance..."
There are so many other things that I would rather cook given the extended free time of a holiday weekend. I shall leave the fetishism of turkeys and brining to others.
4
For me, the big advantage of brining the turkey is that you free up space in the fridge. In Europe we don't have garage-sized fridges and we need the space for our pork pies, pigs in blankets, bread sauce, stuffing (which we will gladly stuff under the skin over the breast), cheeses and all the other things we're expected to eat at Christmas. Since I discovered a few years ago that you can put the turkey in a bucket of seasoned water outside the back door for a couple of days and forget about it, I've been a convert. I don't know if it tastes any better or worse but frankly I don't really care.
3
@Jill Metcalfe - I've spent Christmas season in Denmark and in Northern Italy. Now I'm ready for Switzerland! We do 2 turkeys at Thanksgiving because we have a big crowd and we like leftovers - one in the oven and one in the smoker. I got two large buckets with lids and it makes brining much easier.
1
I'm just sad that we can't afford to fly my son home from college this Thanksgiving. It won't matter what kind of food we have, or how it tastes. Curses on the airlines for price gouging families at holiday time.
22
I brined exactly 1 turkey. It was awful and I never repeated that mistake.
13
I am so NOT over turkey. I love it. I wait all year for this glut of turkey available during the holidays. Brine, don't brine, dry rub, whatever I do, the key to a moist turkey is to let it rest. The more time you have the moister the turkey, provided it isn't over-cooked to begin with. Rest it and let it come up to temperature.
And while people suggest this over and over with beef, it never seems to occur to anyone to do it with turkey.
Works every time.
17
I've tried different ways of preparing turkeys including dry brining and wet brining. All of these methods produced some results that were good and some that weren't so good. For instance, brining kept more moisture in but didn't produce any juices that I needed for gravy. The method I use now is simple. First, take the turkey out of the refrigerator and let it sit on the counter for at least one hour to take the chill off. Cooking meat that's closer to room temperature is one of the secrets to quicker cooking and more even cooking. Second, butterfly the turkey. Turkeys are so big that it takes a long time to get them up to temperature. All of that long cooking in a dry hot oven makes the lean white meat as dry as toast. A butterflied turkey will take about half as long to cook which helps the white meat retain more moisture. Third, rub a bit of coarse salt all over the bird. Fourth, cook the turkey in a wider, flatter pan. The whole bird will roast more evenly and more quickly. Finally, don't cut up the turkey for at least 30 minutes after removing it from the oven. Put it on a cutting board and loosely cover it with foil. If you want crisper skin, don't cover it. Make your gravy and by the time you're done the turkey should be ready to carve.
8
@JR I do this with every chicken I roast, but who has a pan large enough to hold a butterflied/spatchcocked turkey?
2
Sheet pan?
1
It's unfortunate that "dry brine" became a common name for what is really just salting the meat. But yes, it is in every way superior. And far easier.
I think the roasting recommendations here are a bit too simple. Roast on a flat rack with the legs unprotected. Use an instant-read thermometer and roast until you have 150-155°F in the thickest part of the breast. The thickest portion of the thigh should be 10-15 degrees higher. If the breast is ready but the legs have not reached temp, remove from the oven and cut the legs off, return them to the oven to bring them up to 160. Then rest for 30-60 minutes (while you finish up the gravy and the sides) and the temperatures will rise another 10-15 degrees.
More: http://www.rubenzahl.com/turkey
1
I've been doing this since before it was cool. Assuming I'll still be doing it when the "food media influencers" (my goodness - who are we now?) run out of content and rediscover. Thankful this year for family, food, tradition, and an iron bar on the router on holidays.
2
Years back it seemed that roasting the turkey in a flat pan (open, no rack) with liquid (I use water, chopped onion, garlic, a bit of Hunts tomato sauce, rosemary, etc-try it!) and basting it about every 40 minutes while it cooks (yes, slow cooking, at 350 degrees) was somehow banned and frowned upon -- but doing this method, I have never had dry white meat, nor even hardly needed gravy. My family has been doing this for decades, and it is wonderful. At most I will tent it with foil during the middle of the cooking to keep it from getting too dark. I share this recipe all the time and it becomes everyone's favorite. So I never understood the need for all the prep, salting, brining etc. You all do not need to work so hard!
10
Reading these comments cheered me. No politics, great recipes, small and funny arguments, fun. Happy Turkey day, everybody!
40
I've had the best results with a simple dry brine of up to 72 hours uncovered in the fridge, then distributing a paste of finely chopped herbs, maybe some garlic, and ground black pepper in a little olive oil under the skin (loosening the breast skin can be done by hand, or more easily with the back end of a wooden spoon). Lastly, I drape the bird with a cheesecloth soaked in a mixture of chicken stock and a little melted butter or olive oil. It goes into a stainless steel roasting pan in an oven preheated to 325 F..
6
Never was a fan of turkey moist or dry. I’ve been a vegan for three years now and am in great health. It’s not that I dislike meat, but if I had my choice, I’d eat fattier, tastier cuts. Actually the fried chicken and crab don’t sound bad at all. Turkey? Not so much. I’ll be serving squash ravioli, an abundance of roasted vegetables and fresh salads, puréed fava beans and other legume delicacies and wonderful pumpkin pie made with nut milk and pecan pies.
3
@Saramaria
What does this have to do with brining v. not brining?
8
I have one word for you: spatchcock.
12
@Shan - The article mentions Meathead Goldwyn, but fails to tell us that spatchcocking is his preferred method for turkey. I've been doing it with whole chicken, it's the only way to go. Might have to try it on the turkey this year. I have also been dry brining my turkeys for the past several years, the results are amazing. Just make sure you use a fresh (never frozen) turkey, with nothing added.
3
I started out 60 years ago in France following instructions from a Gourmet Magazine’s article on Colonel Thompson’s turkey. The colonel, who was stationed India, had dreamed up the recipe for a magical stuffing with at least 30 spices, fruits, etc. And the stuffing had to be kneaded for an hour. We gave that stuffing recipe credit for its contribution to a marvelous and moist turkey. But I hated how much work it took. Fast forward to about 2010 when I discovered Williams Sonoma’s DRY BRINE. It makes a fabulous turkey, better than Colonel Thompson’s - easy, fast , fairly inexpensive.
5
I cook a great turkey, basically using the dry brining method, adding Cavenders to the seasoning, and then...here's the best part putting a cut up onion and some celery fronds in the cavity. I do use the V rack and catch all the juices. For our "gravy", we cook the giblets and neck in some salted water on top of the stove while the bird is baking, make a roux, and add drippings, some of the water from the giblets, and some bought turkey stock if needed to make enough for a large crowd, and the chopped giblets...yum! My turkey is always just a generic grocery store variety with a pop up timer too...usually on sale the week before for little or nothing. Can't be beat.
3
Easier way to deal with it. Go vegan. With good prep, you can make a super yummy Thanksgiving, and as a bonus, you don't have to think about the fact that you're eating a dead creature that was unnecessarily slaughtered. Let's see if this comment makes it.
7
@Ajarn Joel
Yuck.
An unnecessarily slaughtered animal? Unlike like all the snakes, voles, ground nesting birds, etc. that are the casualties growing your grains and veggies?
18
@Jus' Me, NYT
I assume you eat grains and veggies, too, so we would be operating off the same baseline, right? And the somewhat obvious difference is that you are responsible for the premeditated mass killing of creatures (and thus also responsible for the massive environmental degradation involved in raising of livestock). Then, of course, you slice up the dead flesh of these creatures, chew their innards and swallow their body parts.
Maybe you see the false equivalency here, but I don’t really think it’s the same. At all, really.
Some people get so touchy when you simply just point out to them what they are actually doing. Have I insulted you by saying you enjoy eating dead animals? I think that’s just stating a fact.
1
@Ajarn Joel
Do I detect some defensiveness around your refusal to take action when the simple act of chewing could remedy the cruel, capricious horror of birth?
Some of the recipes that people are posting in the comments are very disappointing. This is why your turkey always ends up dry and tasteless. Say it with me: “You need to brine or your turkey’ll be dry!”
@Obi Okoli
Gee, how did millions of birds over hundreds of years turn out so well? Some didn't, most did.
There goes that trendy theory of yours.
5
@Obi Okoli
And yours will be rubbery, with flabby skin and no drippings for gravy. Touche.
2
I have experimented with all sorts of methods for preparing turkey. My favorite results in juicy white meat. On Wednesday I break the bird into quarters. I roast the breast quarters and let them sit an hour or so after removing from the oven. I carve the breast and place the slices in a roasting pan and add a good quality chickens stock or broth to cover the meat and seal with foil and refrigerate. I roast the dark meat on Thursday and reheat the white in the oven. Beautiful juicy white and dark even with a supermarket bird.
I don't like turkey. I don't recall ever liking turkey but it was such a traditional holiday feast in our family that we always had it on Thanksgiving and on Christmas. When I first came to France buying a Turkey for Thanksgiving was impossible. Turkey simply wasn't sold until after the first week of December. Upon learning this I was stuck. How was I going to prepare for all our French guests I had already invited without the main course. So I went to the marche and asked the guy who sold so many different breeds of chicken. He advise to me a breed I knew nothing about and I ordered two to be delivered the following week. That week I saw the birds were the largest chickens I had ever seen. I could relax at last knowing that our guests would have more than enough of the main dish, but it would be chicken. That's how I discovered I would never have to endure Turkey ever again and so haven't. We still celebrate Thanksgiving and invite friends over, though we now move it to the weekend after the traditional American Thanksgiving Thursday. We may or may not have Poultry and dressing with all the traditional works. We did last year. This year we are having Cassolette because I, the cook, am hungry for it and need an excuse to make such a large dish so thanks Thanksgiving!
4
Joy of Cooking has the secret. Soak cheesecloth in butter and put it over the breast meat. Baste frequently over and under the cheesecloth. Easy and you end up with delicious turkey!
5
@Julie Benay That sounds brilliant, I will give it a try this year (after dry-brining, of course).
1
To all the Turkey Loathers that are posting here: leave the delicious bird alone! There are few things in life so wonderful as the perfect bite of delicately roasted turkey, paired with aromatic infused stuffing and orangey-cranberry sauce. I look forward to it every year, and if you don’t enjoy it, that’s fine. More for me!!
23
@Suzanne
Right? And if you don't roast a turkey, how are you going to have delicious sandwiches the next day?
8
Amen! All these complicated methods may be fun to do, but I think they are ultimately unnecessary. Turkey is delicious because turkeys are delicious! Just load it with butter and roast until done! Don’t overthink it!
5
Turkey is delicious, but its real purpose is to help flavor the gravy. I've never wet brined, since I don't want to ruin the gravy.
I've preached elsewhere about the tyranny of the underdone chicken, and will do so here too about the sorrow of the underdone turkey. Cooking a large bird until the juices just run clear makes for a gross and unappetizing bird. Braising and moist heat to fully cook the bird, as part of the overall process of roasting a turkey to get a crispy skin, are crucial to getting the right texture. We do not make gravy to make this somehow palatable, but forever delectable.
Whatever the turkey and all the other bits can contribute to the gravy endeavor are essential. Any recipe that suggests I should strain the pan drippings before making gravy is a recipe that I will mock, disdain, ignore, and belittle. NYT reader KG in Dallas recognizes the importance of caramelizing the mirepoix under the turkey. I go a step further with a "sacrificial mirepoix", first placed inside of the roasting turkey instead of a stuffing, and then released onto the floor of the roasting pan in the later moments of the roasting process to lend a rich flavor and body to the gravy base. I've got some new twists that I am planning this year in my gravy exploration (which include, among other things, paying homage to the central role that Marcella Hazan has played in my culinary evolution in general, and to pan-roasting with garlic, rosemary, and white wine in particular).!
4
Roux with turkey fat.
2
@Jeremy Payne
Of course, what else could it be?
I've been cooking Cornish hens for Thanksgiving the last couple of years. cheap, fast and easy to cook and taste a heck of a lot better than turkey. I make my own stuffing and stuffed the hens and something like an hour or two and it's ready to eat. Traditional turkey is boring and no one knows how to cook it. Why not roast a whole chicken, everyone knows how to cook chicken and almost everyone eats chicken.
2
@ Patrick Kanagawa, Japan
Is there an endemic Japanese bird, like pheasant, that would be a much better substitute for a turkey?
I imagine that it can probably be dissected and sliced with a tanto, a traditional knife of a samurai, but how would one eat it with hashi (chopsticks)?
As Bojack Horseman might say, “turkey is a garbage bird”.
4
Bah! Shove butter, salt, and aromatics under every bit of skin you can. Roast breast side down, flip half way through cooking.
Yum.
26
I couldn't agree more about dry brining vs wet. Ever since we started dry brining we've turned out a juicy tasty bird every year without stress. So much so, that we run/walk a Turkey Trot 5K in the morning of Thanksgiving and still feed 15 people by 5PM. I learned about it from Russ Parsons from the LA Times who learned the technique from Judy Rogers of Zuni (as this article points out) and I am forever grateful. I have suggested this technique to so many friends that I finally wrote it up on my blog for easy access to all and to preserve our traditions for future generations (https://omgyummy.com/dry-brine-turkey/). Having said that, I really enjoy reading all the family traditions and methods in this thread. What I value most about Thanksgiving is getting together, sharing conversation around the table and making new memories. However the food gets to the table - it's just good to be there together.
6
Judy Rodgers (may she rest in the peace) is the goddess of brining. Her book never goes out of style.
I always thought brining was for wild birds not for turkeys that have been raised so big they can’t even mate anymore. When I was in New Zealand visiting my sister, her husband shot two turkeys and she soaked them 24 hours in a red wine mixture. But they were skinny things. I have a friend who remembers her grandmother burying any wild poultry in the ground for 24 hours to soften it. This was in the south of France. Maybe we can start doing that and get rid of the awful huge turkeys. I have only cooked a turkey once. It came out ok but I’d rather eat chicken or fish or quail or veggies.
1
I’ve brined and salted turkeys and I find wet brining the way to go. My wife (and others) like the turkey to be cooked to about 180 degrees for the dark meat to get the texture they like. I find brining allows me to do this without drying out the meat. I cook it on the grill using a Cooks Illustrated technique and it’s really effortless and delicious. The key ingredient is a 5-gallon drink cooler in which to brine the turkey. I’ve never had better turkey and I have the process completely dialed in. As I said, effortless.
2
I have brined & not brined. Smoked & baked. A whole turkey on the smoker is best brined (Planet Barbecue: Steven Raichlen) as it will not dry out. My MOST often is a boneless TurDucHen smoked on a Green Egg and never any leftovers for sandwiches.....
1
In our house, brining is up there with frying.
All that is needed to get a moist bird is an old roasting pan with a rack and lid to keep the cooking atmosphere moist. Presto.
3
Do without turkey entirely? Save the inspired creativity for the side dishes. I have news for the tiny percentage of professional gourmands who demand the absolute in terms of flavor, taste, quality, etc, for the Thanksgiving dinner - most of us are aware that a better meal can be created using almost an endless variety of things. Fish, lobster, crabs, rib eye roast, even vegan offerings can be outstanding. But we roast a turkey on this particular day out of tradition, out of sentiment, and a nod to our collective heritage. Thanksgiving is one of the few traditionally American things that we all share in this multi-cultural country.
I happen to not like turkey so avoid it even in a sandwich, but on Thanksgiving it gives me joy to see the browned bird on display in the middle of the table and I happily load up my plate, dry meat and all.
31
They just taste like salt. Let this trend die along with deep fried turkey.
9
Fun to read so many family traditions and options!
From CA to MA to MI we've roasted our un-brined turkey in a kettle grill, indirect coals. Loosely stuff cavity with celery, onion, carrot, salt, pepper, parsley, sage, rosemary and thyme. Rub exterior with melted butter. Place in rack with a pan underneath for drippings with coals on either side. Check coals every thirty minutes, add more if needed and the last thirty minutes add optionally some soaked mesquite wood. Beautiful presentation, aromatic and moist. Oven open for side dishes. Adapted from Rick Rogers "The Turkey Cookbook".
3
We hate white meat poultry. It's like eating dry sand. No amount of gravy will let me choke it down. Brining was the best thing I ever discovered. If it weren't for brining I'd be feeding half of a bird to the dog every year.
2
I wonder if the fans of wet brining noticed the disclaimer on most cheap turkeys is the addition of "up to 8% solution added to weight of the turkey". Sounds like brining to me...
Anyway, I prepare the turkey by cutting the back off and baking it for gravy drippings, then cutting the legs/thighs off from the breast. I use a Weber barrel smoker - the legs/thighs are placed in a aluminum pan, covered with oil (with garlic and herbs) and placed in the lowest rack, and the breast is placed on the top rack. Smoke for 4-6 hours.
We basically eat the dark meat for dinner, and use the white meat for sandwiches. And there's lots of gravy for whatever. Flavor in every bite....
5
Brine all the way. And the blue Coleman cooler shown in the article works well as does our red one!
2
I'm surprised not to see any mention of former NY Times food writer Mark Bittman and his astonishing 45-minute turkey. That method (spatchcocking) has been a winner for me and my guests for many years.
13
@GARY nyc Must be a really small turkey because a 20 lb spatchcocked turkey doesn't fit in any roasting pan I own. Chicken? Yes, every time I roast one.
An estimated 46 million turkeys are killed each Thanksgiving, after having been raised in horrible, inhumane conditions. How about choosing the side of COMPASSION and keep turkeys off your plate? I'm sure these intelligent, gentle sentient beings would be thankful for that...the real meaning of Thanksgiving.
4
Every professional chef knows that a turkey is anatomically impossible to cook correctly. You must do something to alter the configuration or it will be dried out. We have finally convinced cooks not to stuff a thirty pound bird and cook it for 8 hours( thereby bringing salmonella as well as desiccated whitemeat to the table. Cutting the turkey up works a treat( spatchcocking) and roasting a smaller bird. Put the herbs(sage) and salt under the skin. Roast at higher temperature .
7
In the 1950’s many American housewives used Adele Davis “Let’s Cook it Right”. She advocated slow roasting so my mother hold put that sucker in the oven 24 hours before we would eat. Dry, sawdust, tasteless. This was the beginning of “big-breasted” turkeys and the bigger the better. But me the 4 siblings (me included) are still alive today.
I have apple cider brined, did Alice Waters brine, dry brined and used the molasses salt concoction over the years. In my pursuit of turkey perfection there have been organic birds, fresh farm kill birds, Heritage birds, minimally processed birds, supermarket frozen freebies and the butterball. I did the steam method roasting, spatchcock, Turkey bag, slow roast, Cajun frying and quick roast methods. Turkeys from 8 pounds to 26 pounds have passed through my kitchen. Which is best? It depends on the bird. I no longer will roast a bird greater than 15 pounds. Anything larger just does not cook properly. Wet brining can work for birds with no processing (Alice Waters simple recipe worked best). Dry brining is great for heritage birds with less white meat and some fat. Jewish cooks have done it for centuries. For simplicity and total ease: get a butterball (just don't tell the snobs) they are very forgiving and deliver a tasty product. Use some good herbs: herbs de Provence with additional thyme, sea salt and fresh ground black pepper rubbed under the skin works great. Make sure the bird is dry for optimum browning (if you have time let it dry out in the fridge). Forget basting. The bottom line: it's a holiday so make it fun and something you enjoy.
27
@Jim McGrath Loved your comments, my thoughts exactly.
3
The last time I made a full on Thanksgiving dinner, I realized I would never do it again. I had to rest for a full day afterwards. I was 66. Told my family we would need an alternative plan and came up with serving delicious roasted duck and all Chinese sides from our nearby (wonderful) Chinese restaurant. Now at 69, all I have to do is remind my adult children to pick up the food on the way to my house. They do not miss the Turkey and we all prefer duck. As an added benefit, the owner of the restaurant explained to me, at length, how they get the duck sooo crisp. Look up the method: it's fantastic.
4
What will we do on Wednesday night? Hopefully the next food trend to fall is the absence of bread stuffing! My daughter has forbidden bread stuffing for the same amount of time that brining became the rage. Some crazy idea that stuffing was becoming a soggy mass full of salmonella. Stove top dressing never tastes anything like real bread based stuffing. Now that brining is over can we bring back bread stuffing.
6
Make an Italian-style bread salad. I am going to make mine with squash, figs, and artisanal bread. Always outside the bird.
1
The effects of brining are entirely dependent on time and amount of salt vs the size of the turkey. Naturally, one can overdo it. Chicken is a good stand-in for experimentation, especially for smoking: They must be brined, or you end up with a rubbery, dry bird. Same with Turkeys, which are just bigger and drier.
I doubt that "low and slow" would work, for the same reasons it doesn't work on chicken very well: neither has a lot of connective tissue that has to break down. It just destroys the skin texture.
2017: I salted with kosher salt, then smoked a 14-lb turkey at 330 in an auger-fed pellet smoker. 2 hours. Excellent.
2
This whole faux controversy seems like a food writers’ response to editors demanding more clicks.
The dissing of ordinary, carefully-roasted conventional turkey is at odds with the taste and experience of practically everyone I know. (The notable exception being metropolitans ambivalent about the Thanksgiving tradition overall but unable to just drop it. THAT would be a more interesting story for the NYT to pursue.)
The pleasure of turkey, based on exclamations around the table, is in its mild but rich taste and tender juicy texture. Thin slices or shredding defeats the latter; brining creates a different taste, not objectionable but not exactly right either.
7
@Charlie Byron, after reading this article I felt that thr whole brining business started when food writers and professionals became bored with the traditional Thanksgiving bird. Just give me a lovely roasted bird with a traditional bread stuffing. It brings back memories of my father's wonderful Thanksgiving feasts.
5
The simplest way to get moist turkey breast meat is to roast it breast-side down for 3/4 of the time, turning near the end to brown the skin.
8
Hmm. I have always expected the gravy and sausage dressing and candied yams and cranberry sauce to give the meal flavor. The turkey just needs to provide texture and—by being not too dry, stay out of the way of the flavor imparted by “the fixins.”
1
I do grill-smoked turkey on a rotisserie. I use normal heat levels (325F). Brining is a technique I use to "buy time" to get my turkey evenly cooked (though the rotisserie approach really helps with this too). I brine around four hours. I'm just trying to add a little moisture to the bird and this helps with my result. Myresults are good --- moist breast with rest of turkey cooked correctly. I do agree that there's no practical reason to tenderize a garden variety, farm raised turkey with any technique --- breast meat is fork cut tender anyway you cook a turkey. But adding a little moisture with a shorter brine gets me what I want. Dry brine can't do this. Also, I do smaller turkeys (14-15 pounds). This seems to yield good results and if I need to do 2, I do 2. So I guess I vote SF "Chron" approach to brining.
1
I despise this ritual of turkey at Thanksgiving. We want the ooh and ahh of the initial presentation but then so much of the bird goes straight into the garbage after the meal is done. This symbol of American bounty has become a symbol of American wastefulness. I'll say this, though, about the shelters I've been to on that day nothing goes to waste. Not only are they truly needy, they truly give thanks.
3
If you want your turkey brined but don't want the hassle, order a kosher bird. Problem solved.
4
@Kathleen Flacy Yep. Empire kosher poultry is consistently high quality and their turkeys aren't grotesque in proportion, either.
Brining a turkey is a great innovation for people who don't know how to cook, championed by authors and chef-personalities who don't understand food science. To properly brine a turkey, you'd need a walk-in refrigerator and 5 to 7 days.
All that just to make a bird that's more resistant to overcooking. The way brining is described by cookbook authors, you get a fraction of the benefits, diluted juices, and too much salt.
Wouldn't it be better to just learn how to cook?
5
I've been cooking on a wood stove for 40 years, and have had many guests for Thanksgiving and Christmas. Without exception (really) they say "Wow! How do you keep the breast this moist?? This is the BEST turkey I've ever had!"
My family thinks so too, being inevitably exposed to alien turkey elsewhere during holidays.
A big factor, I'm fairly sure, is that wood stove ovens do not have air vents, as pretty much all others do. When you close the oven door- no air flows in, or out- it's sealed from the outside world. The moisture builds up, and stays that way.
Folks who cook turkey in a closed roasting pan experience some of the benefits; but the small space means there is a hazard of generating a "boiled" flavor, instead of roasted.
Now. Let's see if a fad develops for running out and buying a wood cookstove for the Holidays...
5
Well, you can be "so over" turkey, or brining, or whatever you want to be so over. I'm so over east and west coast foodanistas doing their best to convince those of us in flyover country that our traditional roast turkey Thanksgiving feast is so 20th Century. And by God, we're going to use a roasting pan and I don't care what anybody else thinks!
10
Google 'Delia Smith's traditional roast turkey' - it involves lots and lots of butter and results in moist delicious turkey every time if followed correctly. No brining necessary.
6
Back in the day if you bought enough groceries the store gave you a free turkey, think they called that Turkey Bucks? Cheap, birds still remain the best kind. Stuff them with a good bread stuffing unless you live in the south you'll use cornbread. The roasting pan is the trick, you need a good stainless steel kind that will caramelize the mirepoix under the bird that ultimately will make your deep rich gravy.
8
I make a very juicy turkey simply by not overcooking it. There was never a reason for me to try brining. A meat thermometer is your friend.
5
OMG - this article made me laugh out loud. Our first Christmas after getting married a turkey sat in a bucket on our back step steeped in an aromatic brine for three days. I was convinced it would be the tastiest, juiciest turkey ever but it made NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER! From that point on I have just bought a turkey crown from Marks & Spencer. It comes out of the fridge and goes straight into the oven. Job done!!!
1
“It’s enormous. It’s wonky. It’s ambitious,” she said. “And I don’t always love the texture.”
In other words, I'm too lazy for it and I'd rather drink another jug of wine.
Professional cooks have been brining meat for centuries. Has Trumpism taken over cooking. What's brining, fake news?
1
Have to limit sodium now. Brining, goodbye.
1
Cooking turkey is one of the best examples I know of effort-addiction. Diligent, hardworking, good-hearted people like to believe that the more effort they put into something, the better the results. Professional experts also have a vested interest in making their work appear complex and arduous.
After cooking many turkeys in many ways for many years, always to satisfactory results, I can report that turkey is not a hard thing to cook. In fact large pieces of things (fish, beef, squash, etc.) are generally not hard to cook. Size gives you slack and holds in moisture and natural flavor. You can over or under cook parts and the other parts are fine. There’s a wide range of successful outcomes. And on Thanksgiving, if you’re a diligent, hardworking, good-hearted person, you probably have enough other yummy stuff on the plate that the turkey is just a few notes in a symphony of flavors. If it’s not great, have great gravy. All that said, the only thing that really matters is salt, and a good quality turkey (preferably heritage). Dry-brining is great, but herbs in brine (wet or dry)…meh. You won’t taste them. No advantage to wet-brining unless you like ritualized extra effort and salmonella all over your kitchen. Really good stock in your gravy, lots of sage, butter, sherry…THAT you will notice. I love Thanksgiving!
10
Who needs brineing? We just melt butter with some herbs and inject it under the skin of the turkey all over. Then cook it upside down on a rack so that the butter marinates the breast and turn it breast side up to brown before it's done. Perfect!
10
I have long used a modified technique set forth in Craig Clairbornes original New York Times Cook Book. Cover the turkey in a covered roasting pan with Cheese cloth. Make a tea with fresh sage and melted butter. Brush the tea on the cheesecloth so it is wet. Then roast at 325 degrees. Baste a couple times when there are sufficient droppings. With a half hour to go remove the cheese cloth and crank the oven up to 425 to brown. Moist turkey every time!
2
Brining ANYTHING is a gimmick so you can roast it to death and it won't dry out.
The biggest problem is these animals are bread to unnaturally grow enormous breast muscles (people LOVE "white" meat, seriously) and that means disproportional alignments that produce carcasses that don't cook evenly, leaving parts over / under cooked.
There are things you can do, like cook the bird BREAST DOWN, not up. Splatchcock, which is just a fancy definition for cutting the backbone out and flattening it, so it cooks evenly. You might want to try NOT following the cooking directions, and cooking it at a lower temperature for a longer time. Don't worry, it won't make you sick if you pay attention to what you're doing. Put a 14-ish lb. bird in the oven BREAST DOWN, at about 250º around midnight and go to bed and at 7:30am it's perfectly, evenly cooked and not your mother's / grandmother's dead dry turkey that needs to be smothered in gravy in order to chew it. Try it, you'll like it.
6
Interesting discussion.
I have a large stock pot that fits a good sized Turkey.
I will stick to brining as my recipe involves two large tablespoons of Jerk Spice marinade, a whole Scotch Bonnet pepper, allspice, kosher salt, pepper. The jerking results in a wonderfully tender bird with flavours redolent with of aromatic Caribbean spice, not heat. And I have the great outdoors to keep the brine cool in a large storage box, in case of critters.
Colin
1
I have cooked many a turkey, as it seems many readers have also, and I won't likely be getting on this no-brine trend. Why are we all of a sudden angry at brined birds? Where I am from it is plenty cold enough to use a cooler for your brine bag and store it overnight in the garage. I have found a good recipe with aromatics, onion, garlic, bottle of Riesling, salt, etc, and it smells amazing coming out of the bag and the bird works every time and there is no issues with over-salted gravy. In addition, I read an article in Bon Appetit a number of years ago that tested over 50 birds, and that article made me a believer in the high heat (475, I think), short-time method. The breast stays moist, the skin crisps and the oven isn't bogged down the whole day. I get slow-cooking for a lot of things, but not turkeys.
2
I used a wet brine for two years, but felt the meat was mushy. I too tried the Judy Rogers method of salting and air-drying in the fridge for a couple of days. Much better results. Now, I take it one step further- I roast the breast separately from the dark meat with excellent results! This year I am actually going to confit the dark meat in good EVOO, and brown on the grill. Should be interesting.
8
For all the simple to tortuous routes to an edible and enjoyable turkey experience I've seen here, perhaps it is Ben Franklin's suggestion we should remember -- that the turkey be the symbolic bird of America. What other bird provokes Americans to compel others that their position should rule?
4
I have had good luck with brining. The meat has been moist and tender and well-textured. And I have never found the resultant drippings to be too salty for use in gravy making. Perhaps the chefs and food writers who were having those problems were brining in a solution that was too salty. And I have never had space problems. If it's cold enough, I just brine in a cooler on the back porch; if the ambient temps are not low enough, I buy a bag of ice and add it to the cooler with the brining turkey on the back porch. Cooking a nice and pleasant to eat turkey is not rocket surgery, but food writers sure do seem to want people to believe that it is.
10
Instead of brine drowning, I give the bird a salt water bath (just salt and water). I don't soak it - just bathe it. With warm water, it ensures that everything is thawed and gets all the bloody stuff out. Then I stuff it with warm stuffing and make small cuts for slivers of garlic under the skin. Finally, I take melted butter, sage, and bell's seasoning and paint the turkey with a pastry brush, reserving some for basting.
Cover with foil and bake, taking the foil off for the last hour to brown the skin. I use a thermometer to ensure complete cooking given the stuffing.
Cooking like this means that it is never dry, and is second only to the deep fryer method for being moist.
1
I first use a mixture of butter, salt, pepper, a little garlic, lemon juice, thyme & sage under the skin. I then use a speckled enamel roaster with lid. Put the turkey in the pan-lined with stalks of celery, halved onions & whole carrots. Spritz the outside of the bird with more lemon juice. Cook @ 325. Take the lid off the last 30 minutes to bast & brown the bird. It works great & cooks even a stuffed bird much faster!
1
I much prefer dry brining now. Dry brining doesn’t require clearing out half the refrigerator to get the bird to fit, since it’s just on a tray instead of fully submerged in liquid in a giant bucket or tub. I also find dry brining offers better texture and crispier skin. I agree with the sentiments in this article that set brine does diminish the natural flavor of the turkey. Dry brining does quite the opposite! That said, if you buy a heritage bird with much superior flavor than those dreadful Butterballs and the like, no brine of any kind is necessary. A properly cooked bird will be juicy and flavorful regardless.
3
Last year I took the plunge and did my turkey sous vide.
Quartered the turkey and seasoned it at 1% by weight of a 5:2 salt:sugar mixture. Put the leg/thigh pieces along with herbs in the bath at 150F 24 hours ahead of time, then Thanksgiving morning lowered the temp to 145F and cooked the breast/wing pieces for 6 hours.
Once it's done, pop it in a screaming hot oven for a few minutes to crisp up the skin, and that's it. It's almost impossible to overcook, and there's zero guesswork for how much salt to add. Plus, it frees up the oven for other things during the day.
As I recall, bringing became popular when free run heritage turkeys became popular. Ordinary supermarket birds come from the factory already plumped with saltwater, and their meat (muscles) are already tender because they have never been been allowed to exercise. Artisanal breed, traditionally raised turkeys, or evenmore so, wild turkeys, have exercised muscles, thus potentially tough meat, and have not been injected with saltwater.
Brining a supermarket turkey will only make the drippings too salty to use. A free run, heritage turkey needs to be cooked more like the wild animal from which it was only recently selected from: brined and slow roasted, braised, or long smoked/barbequed. The most important part of Thanksgiving is not the turkey, it's the love.
23
Thank goodness. I always thought brined turkey had the rubbery texture of packaged so-called deli meats. Plus most of us don't need all that extra sodium. I do roast mine in a rack with breast side down and turn it over half way through using a second rack to avoid dropping it on the floor.
1
When did "seasoned" come to mean "salted"? We've been brainwashed over centuries to think that salting food is necessary for it to taste good. It used to be necessary for food preservation, but no longer. If you choose to add a bit of salt to your food after it's been served to you, OK. But I resent digging into a menu choice and immediately tasting salt. Flavor enhancement? Mostly what salt does is make food taste salty.
6
I never got into brining turkey or chicken. The meat always tastes mushy to me. Plus, who has fridge space for a large container of liquid and a whole turkey? No, when Thanksgiving rolls around I dig out my copy of Julia Child and Jacques Pepin's Deconstructed Turkey, it is hands down the best and easiest way to prepare turkey. I don't bother boning the legs anymore though it is a lovely way to serve to company. I remove the backbone and legs and nestle it all over the stuffing. It cooks so well that way and there isn't any fear of salmonella in the stuffing which is never compacted or undercooked.
I also love to watch the video of Julia and Jacques cooking that meal every year, it never gets old.
4
As a lead up to Thanksgiving, a couple cooks in my office smoked a pair of regular store bought turkeys for an office luncheon. Delicious and juicy, even the white meat. I guess low and slow is the way to go.
4
Like all fads, brining had its day, and its adherents, but I wasn't one of them. I've been cooking a kosher turkey for Thanksgiving since I started hosting about 15 years ago. A kosher turkey is essentially dry brined, but someone else does the messy work.I buy a fresh kosher bird from the local butcher, season it with chopped fresh sage, garlic powder, a bit of seasoned salt, and black pepper, stuff the cavity with onions, lemons, garlic and more sage, and cook it at about 325 over charcoal until it's done. I flavor the coal with hickory and oak chunks. It gets rave reviews every year.
5
Good Grief! So much angst over cooking something that is very easy to cook!! I rub mine with olive oil, sprinkle with salt and pepper, put it in the oven and turn on the Thanksgiving Parade.
78
@Kathryn Riley
This is a very good point. It's dead easy to roast a turkey, so food writers and particularly mass media people tend to invent all sorts of silly things to do to this noble bird. Take Martha Stewarr, for example. Get a load of this recipe for wretched excess:
https://www.marthastewart.com/353184/perfect-roast-turkey
One cannot help but see this whole thing as a betrayal.
14
I've been using Judy Rodgers' dry brining method on all sorts of terrestrial and winged beasts since her cookbook came out, no intervention or "discovery" by Mr. Parsons needed.
That being said, a kosher turkey just needs a veeery minimal amount of salt plus smoked paprika, lemon zest, and fresh thyme in a rub-- then left in the open air of the fridge to gain all the flavor it needs. Only needs be done after supper Wednesday night, too.
3
Growing up, my mom used to do her Thanksgiving turkey in one of those speckled covered roasters. It would braise/steam rather than roast. When it was done, it looked horrible, but there was about a half gallon of drippings to make gravy, and it tasted great. We used to carve it up before bringing it to the table. I prefer doing it this way, still, although my husband prefers roasted turkey.
9
@MarkKA surprised to find my wife and I were hosting dinner for 10 in a tiny, ill equipped vacay rental. Bought a roaster at Walmart for the turkey and roasted all the veggies in the small apt. Sized oven. Guests brought wine, desert, dinner ware. One of the best dinners.
2
Oh no!
Can this mean that deep frying a 20 pound turkey in about 3 gallons of oil using a special 'turkey frying machine' will be history soon?
Then I'll just have to go back to roasting a turkey in an oven. How 1998 is that??
52
@Stan Carlisle
A 20lb turkey is way too big to deep fry.
1
@Stan Carlisle
I doubt it. Our family has been doing that for several years. It is delicious and frees up the oven for all those dishes that have to be baked or kept warm.
@Theodora30 Same here! And it's nice not to have to worry about the turkey until an hour beforehand. We have an electric fryer/steamer/boiler, and we use it for the chicken and other fried things first, then drop the turkey in with about an hour to go until dinner. The skin is crisp, and (unlike my experience with roast turkey) the meat stays juicy for days (if it lasts that long!).
turkeys r good for broth and that s it
Despite the fact that I'm not doing a turkey this year, what I have found in the past is that unless you are willing to fork out a bunch of $$ for an organic or fresh "natural" bird, you are getting a turkey that is injected so that it is "self basting". The vast majority of cheap, frozen turkeys are treated in this manner, making brining sort of useless. I have gone both ways, and while I thought the organic turkeys were better quality (probably due to how they are raised), the price is 3 to 4 times higher than a regular old butterball. Worth it??? I don't know, it's just turkey, after all.
5
My mother was no cook so I grew up with the blandest, driest turkey imaginable. To my tastebuds, brined turkey tastes like cold cuts, not the centerpiece of a family meal. I normally roast a breast as my own family is small, but when I do a whole turkey, I surround it with cut up apples, thyme, onions, and garlic and a little soy sauce. This makes for a deliciously complex gravy to sauce the mild meat.
4
Like Samin Nosrat, we took a hard pass on turkey last year and enjoyed perfect duck leg confit. Still, we missed the turkey reveal moment and, in truth, the turkey bashing, so we’re returning to Russ Pardons’ dry-brined Judy bird. Let the complaining begin.
1
@Catherine Faris. Yep it is all about the gathering and the tradition. My advise, but an NFL bird with six legs and eat the dark meat. LOL.
Another vote for a heritage bird. I get a red bourbon, which is extremely juicy and flavorful (especially in the dark meat) and just roast. It's a beautiful turkey.
Have been doing this for a good 15 years. Have never brined a turkey in my life.
Maybe we need to move past the overbred Tom turkey. It would help with avoiding a supply collapse if there's ever an illness that targets the Toms.
Hey, remember the deep fat frying fad? I but many fire departments do.
Mass produced turkey is the saddest of protein. Possibly coddled heritage breeds are better, but the secret to a great Thanksgiving is a designated driver and 2 superior bottles per person.
4
No mention of frying a turkey which should not be overlooked. A great way to cook a large bird - or any size - up to 18lbs. No brine necessary. Perfect moist flavorful turkey every time. While it requires an outdoor cook, it does not take all day. Just about 3 mins per pound.
The only downside is that there is rarely leftovers for a turkey sandwich the day after.
2
Brined last year and did not like , I had barely any rendering for gravy and the meat seemed undercooked . I tried to improvise a gravy that came out an unappetizing color, humiliating results! Next time, slow cooking or spachcocking
1
The best turkey I’ve had is smoked. Some don’t care for that flavor so to each his own. But as for ditching the turkey altogether: absolutely not. It’s totally okay to have other proteins on the feast table, but the turkey needs to be there. I consider it a great challenge. The custom should be respected. Do whatever you want at Christmas but Thanksgiving should have turkey.
10
Who has time for brining??? Simply cook your bird in a brown paper bag. That will yield tender, moist meat (and a nice skin, for those who still eat that). No need to baste, either. Be sure to set the bag in a large roasting pan for easy clean-up.
1
I cook my turkey just the way it says on the Publix bag it comes in, 325° until 165. Most turkeys come already brined, the processor adds water to the turkey to make it weigh more and you pay whatever for the added weight. Nobody cares about details of the turkey because all the sides taste so good.
2
Brining might not make the turkey any better, but it probably doesn't make it any worse. You can have watery turkey or dry turkey. Gravy covers a multitude of sins.
7
last year I bought the cheapest turkey I could find, frozen, cooked it according to standard instructions, having put some Bell boxed herbs and some salt on it just before cooking. After trying gourmet skinny turkeys, and fat turkeys full of some injected something, this was the best turkey I ever made and was Deelicious. everybody stop trying to do things to turkeys... they are just big chickens, not something from another planet. And while we are at it, make your own cranberry sauce, so easy and so much better than canned.
40
Homemade cranberry-orange sauce, not too sweet, is the bomb!!
2
This article seems a bit superfluous, as most Americans buy cheap, frozen commercial turkeys which have been pre-brined. That's what the “May contain up to 8% of a solution of Water, Salt, Spices to Enhance Tenderness and Juiciness” note on the package means. Double-brining one of those birds would result in a salty catastrophe.
17
I never gave in to this fad, and I'm glad I stuck to my guns. My turkey always comes out juice and tender without all the fuss. Salt, pepper, butter baste cover. Finish uncovered to get the skin brown and crisp.
3
Turkey is dry. That's what gravy and cranberry sauce is for. Get over it. The texture of a brined turkey is like a saline-infused pink rubber ball. But an extra pound of butter and get out your good old Fannie Farmer. This is one time where New England rightfully has the last word.
2
I buy a turkey from a local farmer, stuff it and slow roast it basting it with a mixture of melted butter and white wine. The stuffing goes back in the oven while the turkey rests. No one has ever gotten sick in the 45 years I’ve been turkey roasting.
3
I go a bit farther in the dry brine direction. I cut up my turkey before cooking. Arrange the almost equally sized parts on a sheet pan and season liberally with salt and pepper. Then let it rest for about an hour at room temperature. While the turkey is resting I am roasting all of the rest of the pieces to use for gravy and stuffing. Then roast the turkey for about an hour to an hour and a half until golden brown and cooked through. The meat is moist and well seasoned and I already have my gravy just about finished.
1
Turkey is not bland, and it's not mushy (huh? what are you doing to this bird to render it "mushy?") either. It has a distinctive, very appealing aroma that guests can identify as soon as they enter the house. Stop saying turkey is bad: that's the stupidest food trend we have.
Also: take the breast meat off the bird, tie it like a roast, and sous vide it. Roast the legs and wings in the oven, make a stock from the bones. Perfect.
2
Next there'll be no hot dogs on the fourth of July.
15
I loathe turkey. I have dry and wet brined, buttered, spiced, stuffed with aromatics, slow and fast roasted, smoked, stuffed/unstuffed, fresh/frozen. Results? It still tastes like turkey. Were it not for my traditionalist family, I would do any meat, or no meat at all!
I am also over turkey. Prime Rib or a nice ham for my table. My guests complain about no turkey until they take their first bite of prime rib. Then they seem to forget.
6
@Mike: Until the children of the folks I dine with (and cook for) got old enough to demand a turkey, I was able to have some fun. Leg of lamb, pork rib roast, a goose...I even made pasta carbonara one year, when it was just me and Mom. They were great meals, and we were thankful.
I suspect the tradition of turkey is in large part a fantasy tradition, of a past that exists in our imaginations and commercial advertising. Phooey on turkey! It's for people who want to look just like that Norman Rockwell picture, rather than have a great meal.
Being "so over turkey" is sooooo 20 years ago. The bird is chic. Once a year.
1
Then, of course, there are those of us who never brined the turkey at all. Love that gravy!
12
Who needs the salt?
@Kwhitney Your kidneys, for fluid regulation, and your neurochemical system, to properly modulate serotonin and dopamine levels.
2
Turkey brining is indeed a ritual. Kosher salts, herbs and spices at your whims and hard cider is my concoction. With the advent of convection oven, turkey cooking is fail proof. The aroma that permeates the kitchen is cloud 9.
LOL. I didn’t realize people had been brining turkeys for 20 years. I was still thinking about giving it a try, but never got around to it. I guess procrastination helped me avoid a useless fad.
74
Say what you want, Brining a turkey makes it taste better and, frankly, that is all I want.
5
So I’m just going to make my turkey this year the way a Southern friend did it, and it was the best turkey I ever ate. When I asked her how she did it, she said, “I just rubbed buttah all over it...” The End.
14
If you’re going to smoke a turkey on a Komodo cooker, like a Big Green Egg, you would be well advised to brine. It’s really important for the legs and wings.
That said, ease up on the salt, and instead use some seasoning. I swear by Joe’s Stuff, which you can get from the New Orleans school of cooking. I use about 1/3 of a cup added to the water, and then some salt to get to a *hint* of saltiness.
Let it bring overnight, pat dry, and apply more joes stuff to the surface. If you want to reduce fat, trim away skin before brining.
oh, dear, to b or not to b.
21
@jhbev I literally LOL'd!
Growing up, Thanksgiving and Christmas at our house meant a roast turkey with corn bread stuffing presided over by my mother and my East Texas grandmother. I've been doing it the same way for some 50 years now, and couldn't change the recipe now if I wanted to without a rebellion from my grown children and grandchildren. It's basically the recipe in older versions of The Joy of Cooking- starting the turkey in a hot oven to sear the skin and immediately turning it down, basting with lots of butter (!) (including placing a butter soaked cloth over the breast to keep it moist), -no brining required.
33
@Edie Clark This is exactly what I have been doing for 30+ years (can it be that many???). Turkey comes out great every time. Also following the directions on the time per pound given in the Joy of Cooking recipe is key ... don't over cook!
11
On the other hand, I was hunting yesterday as is usual this time of year and got my wild turkey from our woods. Brining works for real wild bird.
1
Here's the recipe we've been using forever, it's French.
While stuck in Paris over Thanksgiving week (it could have been worse) on business, my French colleague suggested a restaurant serving Turkey that he thought was pretty good and he turned out be correct (he always was).
First off, the Turkey had no Turkey aroma. It was moist with a nice caramelized skin and an aroma that was particularly enticing.
My colleague, who knew the Chef, asked how he achieved it. The Chef responded, "C’est très simple!"
All he did was use dry vermouth and a baster with which he initially injected a bit into the cavity (obviously no stuffing in the bird) and thereafter all over the bird. Nothing else, not even salt or pepper, just Vermouth. As the bird cooked he regularly used the vermouth-enhanced drippings to baste the bird including the cavity (adding vermouth as necessary).
The result was a lovely caramelized skin, fairly moist meat infused with the vermouth which like any good spice, did not intrude on the basic meat's flavor but only enhanced it.
We've been making Turkey this way for decades, creating many converts over that time. As to vermouths I've only used either Boissiere or Noilly Pratt Dry Vermouths.
Bon Appetit.
11
For Pete's sake just roast it breast side down for the first 2 hours! I learned that from this paper decades ago. The bird is not gorgeous at the end, but succulent and delicious. Roast it upside down the whole time and the look will be a squashed turkey that tastes great.
10
@Linda I roasted it upside-down like that once about 10 years ago. I was upset when I saw what it looked like but it tasted great, as you said.
1
@Linda
Yes! And great skin on the back is wonderful
1
Wenote: We all can feel our blood-pressure soar just reading about brining. We wonder how many briners suffered from high blood-pressure and met their demise because of it. We do not salt-brine our various proteins. The moisture, flavors and textures of emu, aardwolf, armadillo, cerebullum-mass, various arachnidae, larvae, snake-fetal eggs, and others are already delectable without further processing and some are consummed raw. Besides, salt is very expensive in our region. If we do "brine" (especially when Peos and Lele prepare the meal) we use pine-tree sap and lime in a two-to-three ratio with a soak time usually of five hours per pound of protein.
3
Hilarious!
My late mother discovered the Morton Thompson turkey recipe while editing books for the soldiers on the front during WWII. As a Non Sequitur, the recipe follows the short story, Joe the Wounded Tennis Player, the title of the collection of short stories by Morton Thompson. Upon returning from Europe in 1946, so the story goes, the second thing they did was go to Macy's to buy the ingredients. This recipe instantly became the family tradition from that point on, and has continued to a degree with the next generation. It has since surfaced in multiple postings on the internet with some slight modifications. There are three secrets to this recipe: First of all, the stuffing, which is a long detailed effort, provides an amazing aroma and pungent accompaniment to an otherwise bland meat. Secondly, the bird is coated after oven-browning, in a paste consisting of flower, dry mustard, cayenne, egg yolks, garlic, and onion juice, then cooked breast down on a rack until the last 25 minutes, when it is turned over, breast up, while being basted every 10 minutes with a cider added mixture which forms the basis for the incredible gravy. Thirdly, it makes a huge difference which turkey you buy. Fresh killed, preferably prime turkey is going to be worth the expense, resulting in a fluffy, moist meat experience. Incidentally, this was the turkey recipe enjoyed by Arlo, Joady, and Nora Guthrie with their mother, Marjorie Mazia, when they made their first trip to Stockbridge, MA 11/1959.
1
I am a no-brine guy. If the weather permits, I cook turkey on a Weber over mesquite banked on either side of a pan of water. A 12-lb bird takes about 2.5 hours and it comes out juicy and delicious with crispy skin. I just followed the instructions that came with the Weber. It’s the best turkey that can be had.
3
@John Forsayeth I love turkey and I cook about 6 a year and I do it exactly like this- although I prefer the brine! I do, however section the bird like a chicken rather than leave it whole because I can then cook the dark and white meat independently so that each is perfect. Obviously, for a Thanksgiving presentation I leave it whole.
1
"Articles explained how sodium attaches itself to intertwined muscle proteins, weakens them and makes them separate so salty water can force itself deeper into the turkey and stay there. Brined fibers don’t contract as much when they cook, and hold more moisture. Science eventually gave way to practicality."
That's not science. That's theorizing. Science is empirical. Where are the blind taste tests? Where?
2
Here's my Thanksgiving Turkey that I make on the Weber year round. You can adjust or omit anything but the salt, but try it this way once.
1⁄2 T crushed red pepper flakes
½ T cracked Black Pepper
1 tablespoon kosher salt
2 tablespoons olive oil
2 ounces pancetta or bacon, chopped
2-3 garlic cloves
10 sage leaves
1⁄2 cup parsley leaves
1⁄4 cup coarsely chopped fresh chives
1 teaspoon finely chopped fresh rosemary
Zest of 1 lemon
Zest of 1 orange
½ T dried oregano
½ T fresh thyme
1 T fennel pollen
1/8 cup white wine
1 whole turkey or (best) whole skin-on, boned breast
Heat oil in skillet over medium heat. Fry pancetta until brown and crisp, 5–8 minutes. Let cool. Transfer pancetta and fat to a food processor, add garlic, and process to a smooth paste. Add remaining ingredients and process until smooth; set paste aside.
Rub paste all over turkey breast or under whole turkey skin to coat evenly. Roll up turkey breast like a jelly roll to form a log and tie together with kitten string.
Let rest 2 hours uncovered in a cool (35-45 F) spot.
Grill Roast in a Weber-type grill w/ real charcoal and some wood chunks - oak, apple, cherry or any combination - at 300 degrees above a roasting pan (on a rack or rotisserie) with 1 cup white wine, 1 stick (1/4 lb) butter and 1 cup stock, and some chopped celery, onion and carrots in the pan. When 160 degrees at the thigh, remove and let rest 20 minutes. Strain the contents of the pan and add to a floured milk slurry to make gravy.
Killer.
4
OMG. Just smear with soft butter, sprinkle with salt and pepper and throw it in the oven.
2
My mother socks all poultry in a salty bath. It was done to clean it. To remove blood and particles from the poultry. Just plain salt, nothing fancy. Koshering, as they say. But, we were a black non-Jewish family, so to us it was just cleaning the poultry.
I don't order chicken at restaurants because I can tell when a chicken wasn't clean the koshering way. And, I don't like it.
I didn't discover "brining" with spices in addition to salt until I made my first turkey a few years ago. Every Thanksgiving, I use the Alton Brown method.
I will continue "brining". Will get creative with my Sunday roast chicken.
6
As one of 11 children, my Mom and dad always got the biggest free frozen turkey they earned from their grocery points (any brand would do), thawed it in the laundry room sink under slow running tap water (trickle)for 2 days and stick it in the oven with generic bread stuffing, butter, s&p at 1:00 am Thanksgiving morning. At 7 am we were all hungry birds from the aroma. They continued to baste (occasionally) the turkey in its vintage porcelain steel blue roaster from the hardware store. At 2 pm it came out of the oven to rest for an hour while they prepared all the trimmings for dinner at 3. Dad served 2 platters, one light meat and one dark. It was never photo worthy (i.e. Norman Rockwell), or could be carved ceremoniously, but I never tasted a turkey better or more moist. Thanks Mom & dad!
61
@Rudolph Johnson
What was that old song? "Memories are made of this". Dean Martin I think had it right.
Fresh local bird, and a little sale and pepper makes for the best tasting Thanksgiving dinner every year.
2
The idea of soaking poultry always disgusted me. I dry brine overnight and spatchcock the turkey. Dry brining helps especially with a free range turkey. They can be a bit tough. I never entertain a lot of people, so small turkeys are better. Never forget the tacchino (turkey) I had in a Roman trattoria in 1985. It was a revelation. Young bird au jus. Spectacular.
1
For great tasting turkey, spatchcock, dry brine, roast at 400 for about an hour.
Can’t speak to wild birds but this works on the Costco organic every time.
No it doesn’t look traditional and I roast some wings separately to make gravy (can make it ahead that way - also use the cut out backbone!). It’s treating the turkey like a giant chicken. This is solely optimizing for a tasty bird. It’s delicious and I don’t even like turkey.
6
Thank goodness my family has never cared about the "Norman Rockwell/Martha Stewart" moment where the hostess places the whole bird, perfectly burnished and garnished, in the center of the table to the admiration of all. If they did, I'd probably bail out on the whole thing and book a reservation somewhere.
I buy two smaller turkeys, fresh, and cut them up. Dark meat in one pan below and whole breasts in another pan above. Season as desired, roast at 450 degrees until skin is crisp - no need for thermometer - and rest. Everyone gets the part they want, and it only takes an hour.
Of course, it all depends on family traditions and expectations, which can be fraught with emotion. It's bound to be tough when stress is the main course.
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! I'm grateful for the community of commenters here.
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For those chefs who pioneer ways to cook things of all sorts, thank you.
On the other hand once I find something I like, and it happens to be wonderful for a holiday, why change? Cooking a turkey indoors in the summer just isn't the same. The house isn't closed up and the unique aromas generated and the warmth that comes with the whole process seems out of place at any other time.
And those of us who still work for a living have few other holidays than Thanksgiving to do these things that make for a very special and unique meal.
So if Ms. Nosrat can abandon turkey (albeit for crab, which can be enjoyed any time of year) on Thanksgiving, she can have at it. My family and I will once again be enjoying this aromatic seasonal meal, always anticipated every year. As my number of future special meals dwindles as I age, enjoying each one as I see fit, not chasing what some chef says as they are 'desperate' to change, is my primary goal.
How tragic if I said, "well, I'll skip making turkey until next year," and that never happens.
36
Yikes, this story turned dark quick-- by the end I expected a quote from some cooking "authority" telling us how the whole "Thanksgiving thing"- family, friendship, good cheer- is on way out.
53
I agree brining might add moisture but at the expense of texture, and no better flavor. Good old roast turkey with excellent gravy is best.
10
Brining a bird makes it moist and flavorful, so I'll keep doing it, thank you very much, regardless of what the food faddists say.
18
Alton Brown's method of cooking a turkey is my preferred method. Brine (my preference, but these are preferences not fact. Rub with butter. Loosely pack with herbs/apple, celery (etc). Cook at high heat for 45 minutes, add a breast shiled of aluminum foil and then dial back until temp arrives. Do not open door. Do not baste.
Use a thermometer to not overcook. It is perfect everytime. Cooks quickly, thoroughly, and is magnificently brown, moist and delicious.
Nevertheless, after cooking turkey + country ham all these many years (30!!), I'm going to make a rolled, stuffed pork loin this year.
8
@Leisa; Can I come over to your house?
I’ve been roasting turkeys for just over 30 years and received raves from family and guests that long. So when brining got big, I just didn’t see a reason to do it, until someone (he-who-shall-remain-unnamed) forgot to pick up the fresh turkey we’d reserved, and no one realized until 10 PM Wednesday. A mad dash to Kroger yielded a “fresh” turkey that was still slightly frozen, so I brined it overnight to defrost it. It was very good, but no better than my previous Thanksgiving turkeys. So, no more brining, and I pick up the bird myself from the butcher.
As for recipes, I stick with Sheila Lukins’s from the Silver Palate New Basics cookbook. The veggies the bird sits on make wonderful gravy, and the tawny port basting in the last hour makes a beautiful tawny bird.
15
I tried wet brining one year. It was a giant pain in the neckand made, to my taste, zero difference. Now I do what I do for chicken thighs, just sprinkle a bit of salt on the bird the day before I roast it. Then roast low and slow.
2
A good, fresh (non-frozen) turkey, plenty of salt & pepper in the cavity. Rub it all over with butter. Baste constantly, at least once every 20-30 minutes. Roast at 325° until juices run clear in the thigh.
Or even better, serve roasted pheasant or quail for Thanksgiving dinner! I much prefer either of these to turkey!
4
I have been roasting turkeys for 45 years. I have brined. Once. Never again. Buy a fresh bird. DO NOT truss. Let the heat get to the inside of the leg. Yes, it looks vaguely obscene, but everything is cooked and juicy and the drippings are perfect for a deeply flavored gravy. Happy Thanksgiving!
20
There is an absolutely foolproof way to roast turkey, which you will find, in outline, in the original (1896) edition of Fannie Farmer's famous cookbook. You roast the turkey breast-side-down, on a rack, at 400 degrees, until the dark meat registers 160 degrees. Then you turn it breast side up until the white meat registers about 160 degrees, by which time the dark meat will be fully cooked (about 180 degrees). The reason this works is that the white meat is shielded from the heat during most of the cooking and is kept moist by juices pulled down by gravity. Yes, turning the turkey is a little cumbersome, especially if it's large, and the skin on the breast does not always brown optimally. But it sure beats brining, which simply ruins the bird. In the UK turkeys are often packaged with these instructions. I don't know why the method has not crossed the Atlantic.
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@Stephen Schmidt
And Mr. Schmidt is absolutely correct. I cook a 20-22 lb bird every year and it comes out perfect -- perfectly brown all over and juicy -- beautiful. I rub the bird with olive oil and herbs, oil the rack it sits on, and cook it breast down for about half the cooking time (~2 hrs) at 325F (oven preheated to 400F first). I then "flip the bird", which is tricky because it's hot and slippery. I wear these silly potato scrubbing gloves my mother bought me one year that have basically aquarium rocks glued to the palms. I then use an external probe digital thermometer (best accessory ever!) and cook it breast up until the breast hits 160F (residual heat brings it up another 5-10 degrees while resting for 30 minutes). I wish I could attach a photo because they look like a cooking magazine bird. Good luck!
18
@Stephen Schmidt I believe that is also the James Beard method. Turn the bird periodically. It's how I always roast chickens as well. And very high heat.
3
All well and good to say get a heritage or organic or some kind of fancy bird but the fact is that alot of folks can't or just won't afford up to 10 bucks a lb or more for 20 lb bird when they can get one free or much cheaper from their local supermarket.
That said, I never noticed a difference when I brined, have sometimes injected the bird but typically leave it up to dad-in-law who does a great job with, I am sure, a giant butterball that always tastes terrific, especially surrounded by 20 or so loving family members. You can put kidney pie in front of me (which I simply will not eat!) and, under those circumstances, it'll taste fantastic!
12
For an event that happens once a year, I, frankly, am too scared to change. I will brine, but have long since passed on flavoring it, and roast indirect on the grill with apple wood.
1
Yes! I knew that wet brining was a fad and would pass! But to throw the Turkey out? Sacrilege!
Food is more than food. I still buy white bread 10 days before Thanksgiving, cut it into small squares, place it on sheet pans and let it dry on the dining room table as my mother did. She did it to save money, now I do it because she did it. It is a ritual that connects me to my parents and earlier times.
I may have this wrong but I think it was Thomas Keller who said something to the effect that when we correctly make one of the classic sauces we connect ourselves with thousands of others in a great tradition. Wet brined or dry brined or no turkey at all, it doesn't really matter. Food is the vehicle, creating fundamental human connections is what the holiday is about.
116
A foodie upon eating my turkey :
You brine it right? Nope
Welll dry brine? No
Cooked low and slow? Um, the opposite 400 for 30 min then reduced to 350.
Fresh locally grown turkey. Olive oil, salt, paprika rosemary and garlic under skin. Onion and rosemary in cavity. That is all. Perfection!
50
This is my recipe as well! I must also give kudos to Sandra Lee, who it’s did it on Food Network 10 years ago. It is great! Thanks!
4
Turkey never tastes good, no matter what you do to it. Sure, brining may make it taste better or seem juicier. And gravy or jus helps it too. But it is always just turkey: bland, mushy/tough (depending on cooking method) and generic. The best thing is that a large turkey feeds a crowd. But certainly we can do better!
4
@City Girl How sad that you cannot enjoy turkey, which I begin longing for a month before Thanksgiving.
But then again there are numerous other foods which others eat with enthusiasm (lutefisk) that I will not touch, either.
Variety is wonderful.
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@City Girl
Huh. I love turkey. It's delish. And when else are you gonna cook one except Thanksgiving, when you have the day off?
I'm not a foodie, nor do I think I'm a Chef. I'm just a happy family cook. I stuff my thawed cheapo turkey into one of those cool roasting bags (less cleanup). It gets nice and brown, it's juicy, everyone loves everything I cook that day. And the secret is, there's nothing easier than roasting a turkey on a day off work.
After dinner, I throw out the disposable pan and bag, we nap and eat leftovers, then go to the movies.
Chill, cooks of America. It's not as hard as you make it out to be.
1
@City Girl Hey, have you ever heard about that recipe for Rio Grande carp? I bet it would apply to Butterball turkey.
I've never brined -- wet or dry -- and have never seen any reason to do so. What I did do, before I passed the job to younger folks, was stuff the body and neck cavities -- yes, yes, I know: cook the dressing separately, not inside the bird; when will this fad pass? -- drape fatback over the breast, and cook it slowly. It kept the breast tender, juicy, and almost flavorful. It is turkey after all.
As Mr. Goldwyn said, “Turkey is easy. All you’ve got to do is cook it slow and make a great jus.” No flour required.
12
We do one brined deep fried and one not brined and slow smoked in a water smoker over Coca Cola with a variety of woods. The brined fried is moist and tasty but so would be fried bicycle tires, as all fried food is tasty. But the unbrined slow smoked is moister still and richly flavored. The secret is the cooking not the brine.
4
We started smoking game hens a few years ago, and never went back!
5
Me,I like a capon,dry brined,spatchcocked, and grilled. Salsa verde,no gravy.
7
When I grew up in southern Virginia, before we cooked any kind of bird it was always brined, or as we said, soaked. The birds were always fresh then and I was told it was "to draw the blood." So, it was just salt water and there was no lengthy immersion. I still do that with any kind of fowl now. It just seems to taste better.
4
@Rebecca Wal
Basically, this is koshering.l
1
I used to brine, but I really don't like turkey, so I'm back to Mom's Butterball, and no one complains.
10
@Boston Bob
Wow, well I hope you at least tell them what it is.
2
@Boston Bob
I'm not fond of turkey either (weird taste to me) so we never have turkey. Solves the problem of brining, too!
2
Never had the time or the room in my fridge to salt brine a turkey. I find the less you do the better the bird. Buy the best bird you can afford. For me the dressing or stuffing and the gravy are more important.
50
When turkey and salt get together
(with maybe a touch of ground heather)
results are superb --
a marvelous birb.
So why all this tedious blether?
23
@tim torkildson tusen takk, tim torkildson. your turkey rhyme is in plenty of time to save us from losing our minds.
4
I do a freshly killed bird, not too big, from local Hutterites,and a slow, all day cook with lower heat. Cook two when its our turn to host. Copious basting with a seasoned butter/wine/stock mix. Cheesecloth cover for most of the cook. I think its pretty good and I typically cook 2-3 small birds per year. What can I say, we like turkey sandwiches.
12
Food writers need readers. Therefore they need a constant stream of new recipes using the same ingredients. Therefore, they need new fads.
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@Richard E. Willey
Well put. I've never been able to figure out why this fad-of-the-moment gained traction for such a long time, though. It affects the texture of the meat in such a bad way, making it spongy and rubbery. The real coup de grace, though, has to be that it renders the turkey drippings unusable for gravy, as noted in passing in the article. WHAT IS THE POINT OF A ROAST TURKEY WITHOUT GRAVY?!
BTW, #2 on the "Stupid Turkey Tricks" list: Christopher Kimball's silly and dangerous advice to flip the burning hot juice-filled turkey over halfway through the cooking process. Seriously, Chris?
3
I go with Melissa Clark's dry brine recipe which I have used these past few years. I cook it at a lower temperature and have success with it each time. I swear by it!
10
@ Mted8 Melbourne, FL
My wife loves to dry brine the turkey. With me the problem is that I like only the turkey that does not taste like turkey. The solution there is to bake it thoroughly, stuff the cavity with peeled white onions, rosemary and thyme under the skin, and baste frequently with melted butter.
An even better result can be achieved with a pheasant.
5
I love Melissa Clark’s dry brine as well. Great results every time! My family and friends say it’s the best turkey they have ever had. Including my mom and she makes a great turkey! She cooks hers ahead of time then shreds and soaks the meat. Also very delicious but I love seeing the turkey come out of the oven and carving it for all to see.
8
I've never brined, but I use fresh organic turkeys and haven't served a butterball in decades. However, frozen turkeys are cheaper, and I don't see why brining would go out "go out of fashion" if it helps improve them.
6
Just get a heritage bird. Dry brining may not hurt, but it's juicy and much more flavorful than those butterballs.
31
Cook a heritage turkey if you want a flavorful bird.
It's that simple.
29