Sorry, but there's too many factors to consider to say its ineffective. Done right, spanking is effective. Couple things to consider: 1. I agree that many people use excessive force or go WAY beyond what is necessary to get the child to understand that his actions we're unacceptable. 2. You have to choose WHAT you spank for, in this case willful disobedience. Spanking for spilling milk is NOT something you spank a child for. 3. Not every child responds to the same way to such punishments. Some kids respond to a disappointed fathers expression or a "look". However, some children DO respond to "possible consequences" that involve pain in the hind quarter. Another word for this is motivation [to avoid]. 4. The whole point is to break the will of the child. Once it is broken, you pull him/her in close, hug them, tell them that you still love them and explain to them what the did was wrong and what choice they could have chosen. Spanking is not "hitting", as I keep seeing people say in this post. Spanking is corrective punishment designed to show the child that they are responsible for their own actions and that there are consequences for said actions. Stop demonizing something that has been effective since the dawn of time.
29
I can't get worked up about this. As the story says, a single open-handed, non-injurious swat on the tush to get a child's attention when she's in the throes of risky or disruptive behavior that has not responded to voice commands, is effective. It doesn't teach the child anything one way or another about violence. It does tend to stop them in their tracks. I believe I was spanked precisely once as a child, and in turn I believe I ran out of options once each with my two daughters. Neither of them hits anyone or thinks anyone has the right to hit them. If a child needs to be spanked every day, that's another story. With such children, I can believe the pattern may get worse rather than better, so ome other intervention would be called for in that case. And as for any parent who responds by hitting whenever a child annoys them, God help that child.
17
I disagree with many of the comments against spanking. Don't get me wrong. There is a big difference between abuse and a smack on the behind. Many children now have little to no respect for adults. You see all the time where children talk back to an adult. Have you seen the recent incident between a teacher and a student? When I was a kid if I talked back to anther adult (a friend of the family) I knew they might wack me on the behind. Because that was the way parents raised their children. Now this is not a one solution for all. You need to learn what works for your child. With my son restriction worked much better than a spanking. Not like he did not get a spanking a couple of times. My father taught me that the punishment should fit the crime. I also agree that as children get older a spanking is less likely to work. This sounds a lot like the research around sugar. It will not make your child hyper. Every parent rolled their eyes at that one.
14
So many justifications for “light” spanking to adjust behavior. The only reason to spank a child is a lack of self control and the inability to respond to a child in the way the child needs. It is a parents’ job to raise a child, not bend them to their will. Spanking is lazy parenting. End of story.
69
For those of you who, like me, were "spanked and turned out fine," I have a few questions:
At what age is it okay to start hitting an infant or child?
When hitting a child, how hard is it okay to hit them?
As the child ages, should I use more force to compensate?
At what age is it no longer okay to him a child?
Who all is allowed to participate in hitting the child?
Please get back to me on these. Thanks!
57
I'm unsure if it's always the wrong choice.
It's definitely the wrong choice for most situations. Without seeing the big picture, it's hard to suggest that one sort of punishment can't be used. Obviously the best thing to do is to take an hour before issuing punishment, so your anger has cooled and your thinking clearly.
I think of one instance, one at Costco, waiting in line at the till. Lady in front of me has a toddler and her older brother who's probably two. He has a fork from a sample, and stabs his sister in the hand. "Why'd you do that to your sister?" Mom, tries to seperate them in the cart, while putting things on the conveyor. He grabs the fork from his mom's purse where she put it, and stabs his sister again. Bleeding, screaming, his mom upset and sobbing. "Why do you keep hurting your little sister?," she says, "When we get home your on a long time out mister. Koo-dos for her patience.
What made the two-year-old do this? Was it because he gets corporal punishment at home and he's reciprocating onto his sister? Perhaps he's never had any form of corporal punishment, and because there's no real repurcussion to his behavior, he's not worried about being on a timeout? I'll never know, but maybe the punishment should fit the crime?
I know growing up, I could be put in the corner for hours, but I had no TV, video games, sibblings, etc. So i'd escape into imagination and timeouts were the easiest thing.
4
When I think back to preschool the only and I mean only memory I have is of the paddles they used to spank kids. I remember having my pants taken down and they would bend me over and spank me really hard. Sadistic is what it was. This was back in the early 70s and I’d be really surprised if this was still going on.
I think spanking does nothing but scare a child. I vote against it.
25
I haven't spoken to my father in over 15 years because he used to spank me until I pissed my pants. I used to get treated like a slave as well. Chores are fine but I'm talking down right slavery. My father: *Picks up dish from sink that I washed*"Oh there's a tiny spec of something left on this dish, better wash every single one of them again." long story short I tred to kill myself multiple times until I found a real family. Rest assured I'm good now and successful. But I will not care when that man dies.
35
After reading this article, I don't think The New York Times understands what spanking is, and why it's not a worst idea in the world.
14
I have never spanked my child, but I did scream at him one time that he ruined my life. To see the injured look on his face made me wish I would have just swatted him.
10
Far from cathartic, committing violence upon children hardwires the brain to commit yet more violence.
36
When my first child started to cry when she was a baby, my idiot stepmother made a joking comment about spanking. One of my grandmothers snapped, "We don't spank!"
I am 48. I was never spanked. My parents were never spanked. My GRANDPARENTS were never spanked. It has never been the correct way to discipline a child, merely the easiest way. Anyone who says that kids today need a good swat are very, very wrong.
48
I have raised four kids. with two older Step boys so 6 total the four I directly raised through decent Discipline...the four youngest are doing fine and acting their age. all over 18.
the two oldest act like they are 12 vs 26. they lie constantly. they are perpetually unemployed and not housebroken. Slobs.
they were not given corporal punishment and were catered to by their mother.
4
the body remembers; ALL. Yesterday I woke incredibly anxious. By mid-morning I receive a text from a woman who reminds me of my mother. I ignore the message b/c I know she is desperate & needs someone to use for whatever she wants in the moment. When I don't answer, she comes to my house; corners me. She needs me as witness to her pickle. Once I am standing there holding my phone as a microphone to her crazy situation which ensues between this woman and her Landlord, I think; Ah! How did this happen?! I don't want to be here! I tried to ignore her. I feel embarrassed for her lack of tact & my own complicity with crazy. Finally, I escape back to my home. I feel ill. I am crying. How do they find me? "You bought milk instead of ice-cream!!! Go back in and exchange it right now, I can't believe you can't listen to anything I say!!" My mother screaming at me from our Ford Aerostar van when I was 6 or 7 y/o. I am crying as I have to exchange milk for ice-cream. Embarrassed. My sister is being held at gun-point by our mother. My little brother and I are looking on from the upstairs loft; down into our kitchen. Our sister is sobbing; our mother is screaming(&cryin) that she should have never had our sister. We are trembling. Our home was built on tears. Mother was molested by her father and abused physically and mentally by both parents. Sister says its a curse on the women of our family. She had two children and lost them to the State. I've had two abortions & nearly lost my mind.
7
Very nice. I am 68 -- so at least 60 years ago, my father told my mother that under no circumstances was she to spank us. I guess he had been abused and understood the bad results. We were Jewish and definitely not into physical punishment. I never ever spanked my girls, and today they are grown. One is a profession of family medicine. Both are incredibly kind, empathetic, verbal women with advanced degrees. Parents spank because they don't have the executive function and intelligence and sense of personal power to control their children otherwise. We are bigger and smarter than our children. If you can't figure out how to discipline your children outside of physical violence, you are a total loser.
56
I guess it's okay that young people have no respect for authority anymore.
There is nothing more dangerous than the liberal mindset.
4
@Pete
Um, no.
There are LOTS of things more dangerous than the liberal mindset. Like...the fundamentalist mindset. Trust me.
52
Apparently it’s less dangerous for the children...
18
I was spanked as a kid, I wasn't physically abused. I was taught you don't hit people in anger. Since I've enough knowledge and discernment I was and am able to tell the difference. I will tell you was angers me to this day, beside manipulative writers, is yelling.
13
I remember the few times I was spanked. However, what really changed my relationship with my mother was that look of resentment and contempt she would get when I had done something wrong. I never felt like I did anything right in her eyes, and I still don't many decades later. Personally, I'd rather have the few spanks I got over that, any day, than the awful look.
7
I'm afraid that I disagree with this study. Believe me, I know the difference between spanking and child abuse. My sisters, brothers & I were "abused" as children, kicked, punched, slapped, hit with anything my father had close to hand until he wore himself out. That is abuse, and abuse is detrimental to the parent/child relationship. With our children, spanking was moderated. It was never the first punishment, and only used when other types of punishments, loss of privileges, etc failed. We discussed the infraction with the child to make sure they understood why they were being punished, and a set number of "licks" were designated, usually 3-5 - on the buttocks and nowhere else.
The Bible even advocates spanking to direct your children in the way they should go. I know the Bible can be unpopular these days, but I will follow God's word before I listen to any number of psychologists.
And if spanking is against the rules, are we next going to say that adult law breakers shouldn't be punished because it's not good for their psyche? Parents have to teach children right from wrong so they, hopefully, don't grow up to be adult rule breakers and criminals! As I see it, the less we discipline our children (spankings or otherwise) the more crime and criminals we end up with in the world.
9
It is amazing to me that we have arrived in a place where hitting your spouse/significant other is not acceptable but hitting your child is okay. I personally think hitting children says a lot about how we value them and says nothing good about the "adults". Shame on us.
50
Another "study" put out that says spanking is wrong. By a group that has hated spanking forever. Shocked I am not.
So we need to be "practicing empathy and “understanding how to treat your child "............does anyone here really think that a kid is going to respect "empathy and understanding" or will it just turn him into a manipulative little monster?
Kids are experts at manipulating parents. A little healthy fear is a good thing.
9
I spanked my children, using a single moderate blow with the hand, a handful of times and it produced good long term results.
I took them to a big city for the first time and one started to dart into traffic. I barked “Stop!” And she did. She knew that tone preceded corporal punishment and it probably saved her life.
Visiting friends, their son pushed my daughter down ten times. They would scold him, “No, no. We don’t do that.” But he continued. We did not see these people again. A friendship was ruined that a moderate swat might have saved.
I was at a cousin’s house and my toddler started to play with the Christmas ornaments. I said, “Don’t touch those. They are delicate.” She stopped. My cousin commented, “Isn’t it funny how different kids are. If I told my kids to stop doing that, they never would.” My daughter knew there would be consequences and her daughters knew there wouldn’t be.
We recently adopted a dog that barked endlessly. I said, “You’re going to have to get a shock collar”. After months my family finally did, which worked perfectly. You can't reason with a dog or a young child. There are only rewards and punishments. And often a reward makes no sense.
What about when your toddler gets down in a restaurant and runs underfoot of the wait staff? You can't spank them there, but if you have established a pattern of obedience, they'll stop when told.
When I was young, being spanked (not beaten) was the norm. Are we really better off today?
23
I was spanked. As a result, I'm actually a positive contributor to society. Beatings and spankings are not the same thing. Spankings taught me there are negative undesirable consequences for doing the wrong thing. Not tolerable consequences. Which seems to be what everyone else is learning. Consequences... psh.... abortion! No consequences!
9
My mother used to spank me with a metal spoon. I can't remember one time I didn't deserve it and am now thankful I was disciplined.
6
“spare the rod, spoil the child”. If a parent refuses to discipline an unruly child, that child will grow accustomed to getting his own way. He will become, in the common vernacular, a spoiled brat. “He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him” Proverbs 13:24. When a child does not feel the consequence of his sin, he will not understand that sin requires punishment. You see what's happening in our schools now. There is neither discipline at home nor in schools. Kids behave like wild animals. Without a doubt, we observe the difference in kids coming from Christian homes.
Some people believe in discipline, but not in physical discipline such as spanking. However, the Bible is the final word on what is truth; it is not mere opinion or theory. A child should never be bruised, injured, or cut by a physical correction. The Bible warns that parents should never abuse the power and authority they have over their children while they are young because it provokes the children to righteous anger (Ephesians 6:4; Colossians 3:21). Physical discipline is always done in love, never as a vent to the parent’s frustration.
God instructs parents to parent their children the way He parents His children. This how we were brought up by our parents, this is how we brought up our children, and this is what we teach our children to bring up their children too. We follow God's Word (Bible) and not the world view.
4
@Oswald
I used to believe that.
Now all I can say is: that’s really messed up.
23
There is s clear distinction between discipline and abuse. I was spanked as a child and never under no circumstance did I see myself as abused. My parents did it when words did not register or I simply refused to honor their instructions. I'm thankful for the way my parents raised me. I had a great childhood and loving parents that would physically discipline me when I deserved it. There is a debasing of strong family values that are being attacked. It has brought many parents to the point of fearing the outcome of taking any action against their children because of the ramifications of a new set of new standards. Children now act out on their parents and every other societal value based on the new established norms. "Mom and dad won't lay a finger on me, I'll call DYFS or the police on them." As I said there is a fine line between abuse and discipline. But when did the state become the legal guardian of our children. When did a group of doctors controlled by powerful pharmaceutical corporations become the referee's on parenting. I'll end my little 2 cent comment by quoting Dr. James Dobson:
"God has created us as unique individuals, capable of independent and rational thought that is not attributable to any independent source. That is what makes the task of parenting so challenging and rewarding."
7
@Jorge
Wow. Quoting Dobson, the ultimate abuser?? No, thank you.
12
I am not in favor of spanking, just to be clear. But why is every article on this subject always directly going for the subject of maltreatment.
Maltreatment, and that includes regular spanking over long periods of time, is certainly harmful and moreover
dehumanizing. But there is no proof what so ever that even a few spanks during a life time provoke the same. Yet, they are always put into the same box. As if to say, having spanked your child once you will provoke doom over his/her entire live. That is complete nonsense and there is no existing proof on this.
What is true is that spanking has gotten a different social value over time. Where when I was young it was still acceptable as a corrective measurement, today’s society rejects this, which is basically a gain.
Never the less, the way this subject is reported, parents who have raised a hand once or twice against their child in their life get the feeling they are blamed and judged. And that is just a complete intrusion in the parent-child relation from the outside since the world is nor that black and white.
2
I'm a father of 4 and know for a fact that spanking children when the child don't grasp the English language, yet, works. When they know their language, then you can reason with them.
This pediatrician doesn't have a clue.
4
It's not a black or white issue. I agree that most children don't require spanking. Sparingly, at best. But I believe some do, however. It's about teaching them to respect their parents and others. If there's no repercussion for blatant and repeating offenses against a parent that could lead a child to grow into an adult who does the same to other adults. Adults who are blatantly and harshly offended sometimes react physically. Hit your kid so that you save someone else from doing it for you.
5
My mother spanked me regularly. Not often, but regularly. Most of the time I deserved it, and the lessons accompanying the spankings stuck with me for the most part. It hurt for a short while, but what she did was nowhere near the beatings and abuse described in the article and in many of the comments. I never for one second doubted Mom's love for me and her good intentions, and I always knew that she was trying to teach me something important about my needing to correct my behavior. As I got older, Mom joked she stopped spanking me when she realized it hurt her hand more than my bottom. I cannot tell you how many times I told her, only half jokingly, how I often wished she had spanked me more frequently. The sad fact is most kids-and a fair number of adults-need to be spanked every now and then. Perhaps if more of us were taken to the woodshed once in a while we might not have so many problems today.
6
Let God be true and every man a liar...
The American Society of Pediatrics stands in opposition to God's Word on this, and therefore is wrong.
Loving and consistent discipline, including spanking, from an early age builds an understanding of cause and effect, actions and consequences, sowing and reaping.
It is a blessing to the child to understand that wrong behaviors cause pain. Better administered by the compassionate parent than unbending natural law or the (arguably) impartial justice system.
3
@Keith
Your god and his so-called word are repugnant to me. I’ll take the pediatricians any day.
16
We were never spanked as children and me and my siblings, 10 of us, turned out pretty well. None of my nieces or nephews spank their kids, they're actually pretty amazing parents as well, and there are a lot of them!
8
Please do not equate the abuse that so many here experienced with a spanking given out of love for one's children.
The only appropriate and healthy form of corporal discipline is explained in the Bible. I trust the Word of God more than I do some severely lacking world view.
Children in a loving two-parent household should most definitely receive a spanking for outright disobedience. And as a parent, I know for a fact that this is not required very often, and very rarely after the age of 2.
If you don't discipline your children, it means you don't love them and you will leave them for the world to discipline. And we see lots of that today, jail, fights, and even death.
Don't fall for these lies. Love your children.
3
Whenever one of these studies arises denouncing spanking, one can expect the usual comments defending spanking. Spanking is wholly unnecessary. And Yes, I was spanked. I did not spank my children. I did not make this decision because I wanted to become best friends with my children, or because I was married to some new age philosophy. I just woke up to the idea that hitting my kids felt wrong. It felt bad. Truthfully, spanking is easier than choosing not to. By not doing so I then had to reason and talk to my children. I had to listen to them too, even when I didn't really feel like it. It made me better, and it made us closer. They know i care enough not to hurt their body. Because sometimes children are frustrating, and it is easy to lose control, use your size and power. But that is not anything more than instilling fear. Fear is not respect or love. Scaring your children is not loving.
12
Appears to be an inability to differentiate between spanking and assault. It's really not that difficult. I was spanked at a child. I was never assaulted. Same applies to my children. I cannot recall being spanked in my teens. I've applied the same rule.
4
Pretty much anyone who grew up in the '50s could have told you the same thing. From grandmothers "switching" our legs (ouch!) -remember? To beatings on the backside by hands, belts or whatever else was handy. "Spare the rod and spoil the child" was the motto. Well, the kids were spoiled not by sparing the rod but by the enthusiastic application of same - resulting in a LARGE generation of angry and disenchanted Baby Boomers. My behavior was only ever briefly changed by spanking, while the anger kept building.
10
After reading a lot of these comments it seems a lot of the parents where down right abusive. My mother spanked me and my sister when ever we did wrong, never for pleasure or control.
And I can with a straight face it kept me out a lot of trouble growing up. And I understand everyone’s situation is different from ethnicity to culture to upbringing and what works for some may not work for others.
3
I am not a parent so this comment is of limited validity.
Physical punishment will stop an undesireable behavior and prevent future behavior if some one is watching or the child believes the parent is watching.
But it seems to me naively that a parent would want the child to develop internal controls to stop that behavior on his own.
To understand the behavior is wrong and why it is wrong and not that it is wrong only if the child will be caught and beaten.
I do not think spanking develops those kind of internal controls.
6
So say the American Academy of Pediatrics, the place where the stuff shirts make six figure incomes.
Like they are experts of the situation that creates the trauma that they forbid.
They hold no credibility to me, they are like bullies with words.
If your child makes offense, have words with them, if they are intentional about their actions with full understandings of their offense.
Spank the child to get it across to them that it is nacceptable behavior.
The way I see it, parents discipline your children, you will do it with love in your hearts but if a stranger were to do it, they won't do it with love in their hearts, they will do it with their fist.
What the American Academy of Pediatrics are saying is bad advice to generate more revenues from social constraints.
3
It's amazing how many negative experiences people have had with spanking, and how that has damaged their relationship. Let me share how I was spanked growing up and how I am trying to discipline my kids:
-Spanking was a normal part of discipline at a young age. As we reached 6 or 7 and could understand longer term consequences, discipline started shifting towards non corporal forms.
-My parents had a consistent policy of telling us once, (sometimes twice if they weren't sure we heard the first time). If it was a known offense, such as a temper tantrum, then of course no warning was needed.
- The key is that they clearly enforced the standards and brought discipline before they started to get mad. This ensured that they never spanked out of anger.
- Spankings always occurred in the privacy of a bedroom or some hidden place. Never in public. The goal was never to shame.
- The goal was never to hurt us, it was to affect the right behavior. The pain level was aimed at the minimum necessary to get obedience. The key is discipline early.
- After the spanking, we would get a hug and they would tell us they loved us. We also had to hug back. As kids this reinforced the idea that we were loved.
As such I always knew I was loved, and while I feared spankings, I never resented them or hated my parents. It was part of a loving home life. I can't help but think that is a shame how misused this parenting tool is.
5
Not in favor of spanking. Now, I wished that the American Academy of Pediatrics would also recommend against male infant circumcision. If a spank is really that bad (not in favor of spanking either), imagine cutting off healthy erogenous tissue right after birth. The AAP stands alone in the Western world in claiming that "the health benefits of circumcision outweigh the risks".
5
Our mother did not use spanking as punishment because she didn't want to send the message that hitting was the way to solve a problem-physical assault absolutely should not be taught (or used) as a rational response to frustration or anger. And, yes, that goes not only for children but animals as well.
The very few times she smacked one of us in anger she always apologized and explained that her frustration got the best of her, that what she did was wrong, and that using physical violence was not acceptable.
It never ceases to amaze me that we are allowed to do things to children that would get us arrested if we did them to an adult.
7
I think the proper question is whether spanking/corporal punishment is "just", and I think the proper answer is "it depends." The thousand pediatricians thesis appears to be that spanking is cruel and (perhaps because it's cruel) ineffectual, but there is no effort to consider whether it is, or can ever be, just. Can it be measured, proportional, consistent, and capable of adjusting negative behavior constructively? In short, can spanking be administered justly and, in so doing, produce just outcomes for children and for society writ large? I would think that it can, and might uniquely be useful to manage a child's exposure to risk while they are incapable of appreciating risk or conforming their behavior to mitigate risk. One need only feel the terror of a 3 year old bolting from the car into traffic or simply the parking lot and then laughing at their parent's fright to know that a meaningful swat or two on the hind parts may be all you have to help them manage that out-sized risk. This is the essence of the "spare the rod" maxim, and hasn't lost its place simply because of new biases cropping up in attitudes about parenting.
8
The reason why this study, like most social study studies that are not reproducible, fails is that spanking is always understood as part of a social/cultural context. In the Korean American context, spanking is rarely in anger, usually with a calmly explained rationale about consequences for the misbehavior, and reintroduction to regular family interaction once the punishment is rendered.
There are no laws against corporal punishment in Korea. In fact, close relatives, teachers, others with a stake in raising up the children in the community are expected to participate in proper instruction.
6
I'm sorry but this report was done inaccurately. A more accurate approach would to collect reports from neighboring cities or other states. Stating that it has "potential ramifications to the brain" is a loose argument when me and many others who are posting disagree with this. What about the reports of children who grew up like me and you? I was raised in a physical corrective house and the only way I understood correction was if I was threaten to spank. Throughout my childhood I was never hit or abused, simply corrected through verbal reminder and if continued it was followed by a more serious punishment. Children can be suborn yes, and parents can be abusive, but that doesn't rule out all the successful children that grew up to be me and you. Look at today's society, more children are disrespecting their teachers and parents. Kids walking over their parents as if there were a floor mats simply because articles like this and peers among them disagree with their way of correcting. If banning physical correction and saying spanking is a sin, then our generation next in line will be nothing but spoiled naive.
3
Spanking and beatings/child abuse (as some are describing in the comments) are two different things. I spanked my children for wilful disobedience but never to the point of causing bruising and never when I was angry. Its all about how you raise them and the relationship you build with your children. There are plenty of other articles and studies that show the opposite of this article. All my children are very successful and mentally stable unlike the parents who abuse their children.
7
Parents who never wanted to be parents, parents for whom having children was an undesirable result of sexual activity, are the people who spank their children. They also tend to insist that children should be seen (preferably from afar) and not heard (someone might realize the parents are a problem). They spank their children with unadulterated hatred and it such beatings really can have long term physical as well as psychological consequences.
The recommendation is based on the desirability of having a "loving relationship". Not every child is wanted, little less loved. Many parents have NO interest in having any relationship to their children. We need to have an honest discussion about unwanted "blessings" which is really hard to do in our current pro-fetus anti-life political environment.
8
@SW I agree. As a child who was not wanted, I believe it should be much more difficult to become a parent. My mother was chronically depressed, and my father worked at a low-paying job--I was an emotional, financial, and physical drain on both of them. They did the best they could, given the circumstances, but my childhood was far from ideal. I did get occasional spankings, none of which left physical marks, so spanking isn't such a big deal to me. Because I chose not to have children, it's something I've never thought much about. If anyone wonders why I opted not to have kids, there are a number of reasons: the planet is overcrowded; I did not want to go through nine months of pregnancy; I did not want a child to grow up in a dysfunctional family; I wanted to pursue paths in life that would have made parenthood challenging; I never felt the desire to produce a "mini me;" and I don't believe a child was necessary "to complete my life." I have no regrets for not bringing a child into this turbulent world.
6
@SW That makes a lot of sense. And especially reading the comments I notice that many people who were abused as children have little or nothing to do with their parents as adults. They're only returning the hatred they had received.
5
I'm only 16, but I can confirm that the effects of not only spanking, but hitting in general as a form of parental punishment, is negative. I love my parents, but I don't have anywhere near the same respect for them as I would have had if they didn't, especially my dad. I want to love him more, but I feel so reluctant to. He gets so easily upset about little things and sometimes his anger escalates to an uncontrollable level where he constantly hits me and bangs my head against the wall. My mom, who doesn't hit me quite as much, says that that's the way he is and he can't change and that I need to change, but it's more him that needs to change more behavior wise, because my infraction may be short-term but in the end it's his behavior towards me that has shaped who I am in a negative way. I really want to trust him, but the way he brutally punishes me and becomes a completely different person when I try to reason with him makes me so scared of him that even when he's his happy, normal, joking self, I can't ever bring myself to be as close with him as I am with my mom. It's made me feel so much more cynical, guilty, and shameful.
I don't blame him for growing up in a foreign country that has a far worse mindset when it comes to punishment than the United States, and I guess it's better that I didn't have to grow up there and suffer more, but his uncontrollable anger and hitting has taught me nothing beneficial that I can apply to my own life.
8
@J Sorry your experience was so bad. I wonder if you would read my comment about my experience and imagine if that sort of relationship with spanking would seem the same to you. The way you're describing it sounds awful.
The article discredited itself as soon as it mentioned a small scope of study. There is a huge difference between child abuse and discipline. This article mentions "blowing off steam" and "being angry" at their child. That is absolutely not the scenario one should be engaging in disciplining their child. If you are that worked up, you need to calm down to address to situation appropriately. Both my brother and I were disciplined with spankings as children and as a result we are both respectful of authority, we are both productive members of society and we have a wonderful relationship with our parents. Why? Because my parents did not abuse us!!! Giving us a spanking wasn't the only tool in their parenting arsenal, just the one we received when our behavior warranted it. There was a discussion and encouragement to do better surrounding it. The study also mentions all the various pediatricians who disagree with spankings, but the real data I would like to see is: have our children and society improved since the shift in opinion on the matter has changed?
7
I don’t even support spanking, but have issues with this article and the recommendation. Please, please make clear the difference between spanking and physical abuse. You can say neither is effective, but don’t conflate one with the other! I knew many good parents who spanked rarely, but to good effect (my own). I knew a few others whose disciplinary approach was straight up just physical abuse. These are not the same types of parents or situations.
15
“Certainly you can get a child’s attention, but it’s not an effective strategy to teach right from wrong,” Dr. Sege said.
Exactly why very brief, non-injurious 'spanking' is sometimes beneficial.
When a child is obstinate and refuses to listen, there can be no effective strategy to teach them right from wrong. A quick, controlled smack to a fleshy area will not harm the child but will serve as an alert that important information follows.. Kind of like the jarring sound issued ahead of a message from the Emergency Broadcast System.
Further, for young children, a gentle and well placed smack on the hand or arm is an effective tool to instill a Pavlovian response to avoid dangerous situations, such as an open flame on the stove, an electrical outlet or a busy street.
7
As many people have already stated, "spanking" can have many connotations. In the hands of the wrong person, it's an evil tool, in the hands of a loving parent, it can be a tool of instruction. I wish this article would of focused more on HOW to use the tool correctly. I raised two children (one is now a computer programmer, the other a nurse) and they are two of the most gentle, caring people you will meet. When they were growing up, I used time outs, groundings, and YES spanking. But spanking was a last resort. I set clear boundaries in my expectations for my children, they were properly warned before they reached DEFCON 1, and when they chose to cross that line, I would take them into a quiet room, talk to them about their actions so they understood why they were being spanked, administered the punishment (using a plywood, paint stirrer --more sound than fury), we hugged and then I sent them on their way. Did I always do it correctly? NO! No parent does. But when I asked them to stop a behavior, they would look at me, I would see the wheels turning in their brain, and then the realization of my seriousness would dawn on them and their behavior would vector off into a "better" direction. I am convinced this is why the "terrible 2's" only lasted about a week They learned to respect authority and respect others. And they were happier knowing their boundaries. To this day, we have a wonderful, loving relationship and keep in touch almost daily.
7
It certainly seemed to work when I was a child, 1950's plus, when applied judiciously!
Now it is just like education, and healthcare; fodder for writing books.
2
I was spanked as a child. Although I don't recommend it and won't do it to my children, my parents did not mean to cause harm, and they are not monsters.
3
@James Svacha
But that’s the whole point. Your parents, like most people, are not monsters. Neither were mine. A HUGE amount of the serious damage done to children is from parents who are not monsters.
My parents quoted Proverbs: “Spare the rod, spoil the child.” They sincerely believed it was their moral and religious duty to spank us. The AAP is now saying that is a bad idea. I think we should believe the AAP.
4
Hitting children in anger is clearly wrong, but these are the only examples given in this article.
Has any study been carried out on the effects of calm (not angry) corporal punishment? I am generally inclined against corporal punishment, and am completely opposed to angry corporal punishment, but realize that there could be a distinction between that and a calm well-intentioned (and therefore potentially loving) physical correction.
5
All I have read is that people are spanking their children as a release to their own anger. This is ALWAYS wrong. What is also wrong is to equate that with a thoughtful NON-emotionally driven physical discomfort (like a smarting switch to the bottom) to give weight to a parental instruction. Teaching your child instant, full obedience is what keeps them safe from danger and teaches them that the authority over them (parents, guardians, teachers, law of the land) is something to be obeyed. It teaches good safety and ultimately good citizenship. When your children are very young the most important instructions you should be teaching them is "No", "Stop", and "Come". No, don't touch the hot stove. Stop, the road is dangerous. Come, we are leaving and I need to help you get dressed. It is much less painful and damaging to give a stinging flick to the back of your child's hand when they ignore your "No, don't touch the stove" than it would be for him to touch the stove and get burned. This whole controversy hinges on the parents emotion/anger. If you teach your children the importance of obeying the first time, without you taking it personally as they learn what that means and you take the time to build loving ties with your child then none of this would even be a discussion. I personally know DOZENS of adults who have been raised this way and have wonderful memories of their childhood and are raising their children THE SAME WAY and have loving, happy, obedient children
2
Responsive tailored strategies, based on a child's temperament/personality, are alternatives to spanking and can manage children's behavior problems. Spanking is counterproductive. It increases a child's resentment and role models that it is OK to hit someone when you are angry. Instead parents can use strategies proven to be effective in multiple clinical trials. INSIGHTS into Children's Temperament teaches parents (and teachers) how to recognize a child's temperament and then to use tailored strategies that help the child regulate his or her own behavior. A quick fix? Perhaps not at first, but the strategies have proven to reduce children's behavior problems even among children with ADHD --without using any medication or spanking!
4
The key problem with the arguments against spanking is that as they fail to note that behavior problems in kids have escalated as the rate of spanking has declined. Now, you have situations where parents are held accountable for their kids actions but also prevented from using disciplinary actions which may work best (regardless of what some liberal studies like to pretend). Fear, like it or not, is a necessary aspect of discipline. It's the reason that nations have armies and local government has police and that those in those forces have weapons.
Spanking clearly should not be the go to punishment, but it has a place in the arsenal of disciplinary actions available to parents and guardians. The more people have denied that spanking is a meaningful tool, the worse our society and our kids have become. It's creating a society that is too weak to defend itself or take any personal responsibility and it is encouraging people to be more and more reliant upon government to resolve all their problems.
4
No surprise here. Visited a friend back in 2002, a friend that I grew up with, hid dad and my dad were best friends, and there was one house separating our homes in a Westchester County, NY suburb. Both dads "utilized" corporal punishment in our formative years, I received therapy to help me ameliorate the effects of "hitting" on me as a child, he did not.
While visiting, he took his eight year old son outside, and "took him to the woodshed" for something, but me, my wife, our four year old daughter... we knew not what. We were having dinner, and his boy seemed to behave just fine, and then WHAM. Dad grabs him by the arm, pulls him outside, and cracks him three or four times. I will never forget the look of fear on my four year old's face when she heard her "new friend's" yelps, and cries.
The next day, I took my friend aside, and shared that my wife and I had made a resolution to never strike our children for fear of the myriad studies that pointed to negative repercussions. I flat out told him "Really, all you're demonstrating to your son by hitting him that way is that violence is a legitimate form of conflict resolution.
Fast forward 12 years, and my friend's son, who has "rented" a room from a musician through a Craigslist ad, murders the new landlord that has come downstairs to demand past due rent, and threaten eviction in the absence of said overdue remuneration.
Hitting a child to resolve conflict is NEVER legitimate. It never produces a single positive result.
8
Three thoughts:
1. It's never ok to beat your child.
2. Toddlers do not have the ability to reason. And young children's reasoning ability is very weak and very basic. These FACTS are not addressed in this story that I would argue is written mainly for 10 & up.
3. I would argue that respectful, reasoned, and empathetic behavior is on significant decline. So I think it would be valid to ask for reproducible evidence that their findings are correct.
3
Good advice... its common sense, actually. Its a bit appalling that parents in this country need an authority figure to advise on something so basic.
What's next: don't hit your spouse (from the American Psychological Association?)
4
This "encouragement" to not spank children equates spanking with physical abuse. They aren't the same. I was spanked as a child to correct my behavior. Guess what: it corrected my behavior. Have parents nowadays become so clueless that they don't know the difference between discipline and abuse? These authors are looking in the wrong place and the real problem with the parents is going unaddressed.
9
@fudfighter
If you tried that with a non-consenting adult, you'd be slapped with assault charges. So why is it not ok to hit an adult but perfectly ok with you to hit a child?
6
My son taught me that spanking provides the wrong behavioral model for children. He was going through the "terrible twos" and kept dumping the dog's water bowl all over the kitchen floor while I was trying to prepare dinner. After the third time of mopping up the floor I lost my patience and swatted him on the behind. His reaction stunned me. He scrunched up his little face in a scowl and turned around and began "spanking" me. He showed me that I was modeling aggressive behavior. Time out became the "punisher" after that. He became a sweet, loving adult, adored by everyone who knows him.
5
I was spanked s a child, but I prefer the term “beating”: spanking sounds too lighthearted for what physical punishment really is. I never struck my children and they are much better adjusted than I ever was -- injuring the dignity of children does far more damage than you realize.
9
@Julie N.True. Remember Alice Miller's manifesto: "Every smack is a humiliation" -- https://www.naturalchild.org/articles/alice_miller/manifesto.html.
3
Another cockamamie story telling me how to raise my child by people that "Know Better". My child needs a parent, not a friend. Nobody wants to spank a child but children exist for the sole purpose of testing the limits of the envelope. Some children will not respond to anything else. A good spanking is not common in our household. I was belt raised and I don't want that for my children. But if my kid pushes for red but, he's gonna get a red but.
4
@A Rodriguez
There are effective ways to discipline a child besides physical punishment. All physical punishment teaches a child is that it is ok for adults to hit children. I recommend that you read some effective parenting books that don't advocate physical abuse as discipline and maybe parenting classes.
4
I was spanked as a child, not very often. But, for the bad stuff I did. I'm thankful I was, it helped teach me respect and that there were consequences to my actions. I spank my children when they are bad. I give them a fair 2 chances, there is no third warning. My children are very well behaved. They do not fear me and they do not disrespect me. Children crave structure, this is setting the stepping stones for being good people. It's okay to spank, just don't go overboard and hit hard. Don't be leaving marks on your child or abusing. I love my kids and I'd never hurt them.
I'm sure I'll get all kinds of hateful replies because I spank my children. But, at least my kids are respectful, kind and good at heart for it. More than some can say. You teach your kids the right way and good morals they will be fine!
7
@Adam
My 21 year old daughter is a respectful, kind and good at heart adult and I didn't resort to beating her as a child. And she was a very strong willed child. The kind that makes you want to pull your hair out. But I disciplined her with groundings and removing privileges when she misbehaved. And I practiced the time honored recommendation of "not sweating the small stuff" by asking myself if this is a hill I wanted to die on and 99.99% of the time, the answer was no.
If our tempers got the best of us, one or both of us went into a time out to calm down. I strove to allow her choices and a voice in decisions whenever it was feasible (like what shirt to wear that day or which of the two offered breakfast options or choice of activity) and it made a huge difference when she was deep in the throws of being a toddler. It also served well as she got older. Yes there were days when I was tempted to spank because that is how I was raised. But unlike you, being spanked as a child made me grow to resent my mother. I vowed to do better with my daughter.
9
Can we also leave omit “washing” out a child’s mouth with soap?
9
An obvious finding: if spanking was effective, you'd only have to do it once.
11
This article gave me a spiritual moment, as in "Jesus, that's obvious." A second such moment will come in fifty years (though I won't be here then), when the exact same insight is discovered again for the first time.
5
"Although the study was small in scope..."
Small in scope means small sample size which means significance as calculated is not meaningful when applied to the whole population.
The issue is paddling out of anger, which instantly becomes abuse, no matter how light the paddling is.
My parents paddled us, with restraint - love even - and we are all smarty-pants who are socially well-adjusted. Anecdotal yes, but given their sample size still possibly enough to skew the results.
5
@Lemony Cricket
It is impossible to hit ANYONE with love. Paddling even without anger is abuse.
5
My parents spanked the five of us kids when we did wrong. I was never abused, and I was never spanked when I hadn't solidly earned punishment. I suffered no negative effects; rather, I learned that I should obey my parents.
I spanked my own children when they were small. They turned out to be wonderful adults, and today we are very close.
Certainly spanking can "go wrong", but -- when used appropriately -- spanking is absolutely an effective discipline technique.
12
I wrote an article recently for The Humanist magazine which took a slightly different take on this terrible subject. Being physically and emotionally abused by one's parents is really just another kind of bullying. But it is a much more impactful form when it is being done by people who are suppose to be loving you unconditionally, looking out for your welfare and, in fact, protecting you from harm. This kind of abuse has been proven to do damage to the circuitry of the brain which cannot be undone. I am now sixty-one years old and am still sensitized by situations, even sounds and smells, that readily restore the memories of that treatment I got as a child.And it is not only the actual violence and humiliation but the threat of it over many years that undermines the sense of oneself. Because I had learned to deal with it by always yielding to it until it was over, I was bullied by other people as well, and to this day I can become almost physically ill by any kind of confrontation. I find it very hard to stand up for myself even when I am right. The effects of this violence are not innocuous let alone beneficial. They have awful consequences that last a lifetime. It even made it harder for me to be a father.
11
Spanking might be ineffective for some children, but that's not the case for all. At the end of the day, it all comes down to what message the parent is trying to send. Parents who care more about hurting the child than teaching the child are in the wrong. Spanking is effective; the motive of the parent in doing so is what makes the difference.
4
There is a difference between punishment, and abuse. Spanking has a place as a corrective tool, a tool that can save a child's life in ways the parent will never be able to predict.
Spanking was used on me in an appropriate way as a tool of correction, an event I was taught to consider when making decisions on how I should behave. I abide by the law, I don't hurt others, or do things that put myself in danger. Spankings worked and helped to shape me into a less unruly person.
6
@Steven Wilburnsen
If spanking is such a great corrective tool, then please tell me why the current recommended method of dog training is positive reinforcement and reputable trainers will tell you to NEVER, EVER use physical punishment on a dog? If physical punishment is widely accepted as being harmful in dog training to the owner-dog relationship then why can't you see that physical punishment is harmful to the parent-child relationship too?
6
Tell that to my mom
4
Well I can tell you that spankings have a grave risk of invoking the following; repect, learn from bad deeds, did I mention respect. There is a difference in spankings and beating your kids. You know what happens when you dont spank your kid for being bad? School shootings and a sense of entitlement.
7
I know of people who spank, and maybe you are one of them, who manage to keep their kids’ respect and psyche intact. I think they usually do it with very clear, consistent rules, and do not spank when angry, and are otherwise loving, consistent and not volatile. But most parents I know who spank do it when they snap - they are unpredictable, inconsistent and not in control, which is just bad parenting and the spanking is a lazy means to an end.
I also know (many) parents who do not spank who have entitled and out of control kids, because they don’t have clear limits, consistently enforced, that include limits on how they can treat other people. Adding spanking into this mix would be kind of disastrous. The problem isn’t the lack of a good beating, it’s the lack of a clear set of rules and values.
I would never hit my children, but we have very clear limits, which are enforced consistently, and we are there in our kids’ lives (though we both work), watching and talking A LOT about their behavior, the impact it has on others, and better alternatives. Because one of our hard limits is around treating others with respect and kindness, it’s hard for me to think of a way I’d incorporate corporeal punishment in that without sending a really mixed message.
I’m by far not a perfect parent, but I truly believe the key is consistency, good role modeling, and insisting on mutual respect, and a whole lotta love.
10
@ Jean: a good and sensible comment. Thank you.
@Burger Respect is not the same as fear. Too bad you don't understand that, especially too bad for your poor family.
3
VIOLENCE BEGATS VIOLENCE
7
Spanking sends the message that hitting someone you love is okay. My father was a spanker and I ended up with a man who slapped me around. I can’t prove there is a correlation but hitting was in my family. I’m not surprised I ended up with someone who hit me.
119
@Sharon Kane My father was getting beaten to a pulp by my grandfather. My father is the most caring, loving person I know, and he never laid a hand on nobody (he is still a black belt in 2 martial arts), and is a model husband and father.
It's all anecdotal.
10
@Tom
Ms. Kane said she ended up with someone who hit her (like her father) not that she became an abuser. I think sometimes the abused look for the kind of love (or what they took as love) they were shown as children and end up with abusers. She wasn't saying that people who are abused turn into abusers.
20
@Sharon Kane Spoiler alert: there's no correlation.
5
I got beat by my dad. One time my mother screamed, stop your going to kill her when he was going to hit me with my twirling baton.
It has had lasting effects on me. I am now 67.
12
All you folks out there that were spanked as a child: Bad news, you didn't turn out as well at the rest of us.
8
@Paul Central CA, age 59 I bet many of them are Republicans now - the authoritarian party whose policies are punitive and cruel.
1
Pediatricians never explain WHY you shouldn't spank. They just say you shouldn't. They say, "it's not good for the children." They say it doesn't work (they're lying, it works, in the short term). They say it makes children angry (it does, in the short term, but not always in the long term). It creates some cognitive dissonance, but not always. My parents spanked me, but didn't physically abuse me, and YES, we CAN tell the difference. We aren't stupid, NYTimes.
Here's WHY you don't spank:
Until a child reaches the Age of Reason, about 10 or 12, the age when they can talk things out with you, they don't mentally connect their behavior, with the pain. They don't make that cause and effect relationship. Sure, it hurts. But the "I did this, so Mom did that, so I will choose NOT to do THIS AGAIN." That never happens. The cause and effect, seldom (if never), takes place.
They actually lack the capacity to make those sorts of connections. They don't have the brain function: Moral Reasoning and Executive Function, which starts to develop young, but doesn't finish until age 24-30. Or they may begin to understand, but not be able to exert control.
The point being, once they HAVE the brain function, it's POINTLESS to hit them. You can talk to them and accomplish the same thing. UNTIL they have the brain function, it's POINTLESS to hit them. It's cruel.
If I could go back and do it over, I wouldn't spank. If only I knew then what I know now. Spanking is pointless. And cruel.
7
The worst reason for a parent to beat their kid is in an effort to get them to stop crying. Crying! This often happens in public when parents get angry at the attention their crying child brings on them. I have no qualms about butting in and putting a stop to violence by a parent and their kid getting hit in my presence.
The worst excuse for spanking or hitting a child is that they themselves were beaten up as a child by their own parent when they were small. That experience means they should know better and why it is so wrong!
My adoptive mom spanked me for mostly non-offenses and simply escalated to using the metal end of a belt and a horse riding crop - that was the worst - brutally for quite trivial offenses - maybe she beat me "because it releases her tension" after reading Fitzhugh Dodson's excuse for beating up her defenseless child. She never apologized and I never forgave. Our mutual hatred of each other lasted a lifetime until the day she passed away.
"Pow wow"? Beat your kid once and release your tension and have a kid who that will hate you a lifetime for it. Pow!
11
I grew up in the 'Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never harm me" era.
At about age 8 was given the choice of being spanked (dad) or being lectured (mom). After selecting the lecture option once, I always selected the spanking option as the lecturing never ended. The words didn't hurt, but made it clear nagging isn't a better path either.
3
Good to see they are joining the crowd, over 50 years behind behavioral psychology but better late than never!
3
Just substitute the word assault for spank and it really changes the picture.
11
Of course spanking is all wrong and I swore, as a new mother, I would never, ever hit my children. But I did swat my firstborn on several memorable occasions--I'd had no sleep and the swat was less a punishment than a reaction--once the kid kicked me and I whacked back, yelling (isn't this absurd?) "Don't hit Mommy!" A babysitter would have been a godsend, and I would have been a better mother.
http://www.thecriticalmom.blogspot.com
5
Oh, I know this is so hard to confess. One night when my twins just would not stop crying, I had this moment when I had to put the one I was trying to comfort down carefully and sit with the fact that I now completely understand why people shake their babies.
Parenting is hard, and good parenting is these moments of self reflection where you face and give grace to what’s dark and imperfect in yourself, and learn that you can be and do better in the future.
4
From reading the comments here, it would appear that many, if not most, of the respondents were beaten and abused, not spanked. The study properly defined spanking as “noninjurious, openhanded hitting with the intention of modifying child behavior,” but they left out an important aspect of it, which is that it must be delivered dispassionately. Striking a child in the heat of the moment is not spanking, it is child abuse.
I was a child of the late 1950s, and while my family definitely believed in spanking, it was very rarely employed. The commenters here who described being lined up and beaten with a belt are not describing spankings. In our family, it went this way:
1. You were warned, very clearly, that this behavior was improper and must be stopped immediately, or that a spanking may follow.
2. If you halted said behavior, you were praised and perhaps given a treat.
3. If you did not, you received warning number 2.
4. If you still continued the proscribed behavior, you would be told in a very disappointed tone that you were going to receive a spanking, which you would receive in a highly judicial atmosphere by means of a wooden cooking spoon applied to a clothed butt. Only enough force was used to produce a sting; it was never delivered in anger.
Just as effective as the mild sting was the disappointment radiating from the parent. However, a wanton beating with a belt delivers an entirely different, and bad, message.
5
Many people say "I was spanked when I was I kid and I turned out fine." I have heard this repeatedly and this proves that if you hit a child, she will believe that it is okay for her to grow up and spank HER own children! What a horrible example to set! NO SPANKING!
5
Ugh...I was raised by two of the stupidest people you can imagine. Dumb as rocks, uneducated and always broke. My mother spanked us all the time, usually because she was having a bad day.
I don't spank our son, because I don't want to. To me it will always be an indicator of stupidity.
6
I’m so sorry that happened to you. Spanking is bad enough, but this is abuse.
4
Over recent decades, the US incidence of autism has risen from about 1 in 1,125 individuals several decades ago, to about 1 in 59 individuals, today, with males being diagnosed at about 4 times the rate of females. Other studies show that in educational settings, autistic kids are the more likely targets of corporal punishment.
[11/05/2018 M 5:25 p.m. Greenville NC]
3
@John Joseph Laffiteau MS in Econ I work with two ladies who have non-verbal autistic children. Trust me, if anyone is the target of corporal punishment, it's the mothers being smacked and kicked and pushed and bitten by the frustrated kids.
It's also true that in countries that have abolished ALL corporal punishment, in schools, institutions and the home, levels of societal violence later goes down. https://medium.com/@amy_44829/spare-the-rod-period-4e4b210f50be
As doctors, just like we ask if there are guns in the home and if so, are guns kept separate from ammunition and locked away; just as we ask about the use of bicycle helmets and seat belts and water safety, doctors can ask parents how things are going with regard to discipline in the household. Corporal punishment is alive and well in the United States, the statistics are disturbing. This conversation and offering support and resources should be part of the office visit. Positive parenting can be taught. Offering parents other options to spanking, connecting families to local and online resources and talking about progress at subsequent visits are all ways health care providers can help stem the ongoing epidemic of hitting children.
6
There's one problem with spanking that's long overdue for public discussion: its connection to sexual abuse.
17 years ago, a Canadian school principal was busted for possessing child pornography. Specifically, he collected pictures of children being spanked. Turns out he'd also "disciplined" a number of students during his career.
In 2002, the FBI broke up a nationwide child-spanking pornography ring. A few of its members even made films using their own kids, who could be heard tearfully pleading their innocence.
Now, it's not really news that spanking can take on sexual overtones, as anyone who's seen "Monty Python and the Holy Grail" can tell you. If you doubt it, just type "spanking" into a search engine and see what kind of results you get. And since there are people out there who are sexually drawn to children, it figures that some would enjoy spanking them. (At the same time, some predators intent on less ambiguous violations have used spanking as a grooming technique, eroding boundaries of modesty, or simply to intimidate their victims into complying and keeping quiet.)
Tragically for many, society has mostly failed to recognize the potential for sexual abuse in the practice of spanking children or even young adults. Perpetrators often deflect suspicion simply by playing the discipline card. And generally, parents don't warn their kids that there are grownups who may have bad reasons for wanting to spank them.
It's high time we woke up to this problem.
6
My husband’s and my generation (1960s) were spanked all the time, judiciously or not. We, on the other hand, affirmatively chose not to spank our kids. Looking back, disciplining was more challenging, but my kids turned out to be nice people who never had a hand raised to them. Myth busted: spare the rod. . .child.
6
With a few exceptions, i am against corporal punishment, let's tell it like it is, it's not spanking. First, the exceptions: If you see your kid hitting another without provocation; if your kid hits you; if by prepronderance of evidence your kid hit another(video tape, several witnesses, a teacher witnessed the assault, etc). Even then, if it's the first time, a good talking to your kid should happen first. The idea of hitting your kid means that you lost. You're the adult and should outwit or out think your kid. You've got the the adult brain, supposedly mature, clear thinking, intelligent; all of those things. Use your creativity and patience in coaxing your child to do what you think is best. Beating or screaming at your kid for a failing grade in a class in school, shows that you can't cut it as a parent. Just over the weekend a teenager strangled his mom to death over a vicious argument about a "D" grade in one of his classes. For me, being an abused kid i can speak first hand how damaging it is to a child being hit, not just once in a while, but fairly regularly for countless number of rule "violations". I still remember being hit with a broom stick as a 5 year old for refusing to go to the dentist to have a tooth pulled. The location of the leather belt used for punishment is still etched in my brain. Way too many stupid, impatient, inmature adults popping out kids. Society and religion insist that we continue to do so.
5
Big and strong hitting small and weak. What lesson is being learned?
8
Beating children is part of the fundamentalist, evangelical "christian" dogma.
Next up will be the true believers ranting their religious freedom is curtailed by elitists saying violence against very young human beings is harmful.
6
We are in the 21st century and folks are first discovering that spanking is bad? Where have they been?
3
I share the wonder that this can be news, but better late than never. In the Nordic countries spanking is illegal. It has been known to be harmful for decades.
I thought the debate had moved on to whether shouting at your children is helpful, ineffective or indeed harmful.
2
If an adult hit another adult they would be arrested. Why is it allowed on a child? Don't have children if you cannot control yourself and love and nuture them.
11
Believe it or not, children can learn right from wrong, grave danger from safety and grow up to be law abiding citizens without being spanked if you are a good parent.
7
Just amazing! You mean hitting people to get them to do what you want is NOT a good idea?!?
6
I've always found it odd that an act considered criminal if you do it to anyone else is OK if you do it to your own child.
7
I grew up with my father and younger sister in rural Iowa. I was spanked several times at an age I can remember (and surely, more at an age I cannot).
My absent Mother wasn’t without fault. She spanked me too, but more so with insults, empty promises, and manipulation.
What I learned from being spanked was to hide my indiscretions, displace blame, and lie to avoid any consequence outside of my control. I also learned to mistrust authority, misunderstand love, and mistreat my younger sister both physically and emotionally.
Shame, guilt, fear, and insecurity are what I have become “disciplined” in as an adult. Now, my life at 33 years of age is a textbook example of the lasting, negative effects spanking can produce.
What a sad thing it is to endure such a long road to recovery —- simply from the unfortunate circumstance of being a child of parents who didn’t know better.
75
@Recovering "Now, my life at 33 years of age is a textbook example of the lasting, negative effects spanking can produce. "
No, it doesn't sound like your life is the result of spanking at all.
It sounds like it's the result of NO LOVE from your parents.
I love my kids, and I spank them appropriately. And I reinforce that love in many other ways. They know I love them, and they know I won't put up with bad behavior. Win-win.
4
@jbers
Actually, the opposite is true. My parents both loved me very much. They merely expressed love how they understood to do so as it applied to discipline/guidance. At other times they utilized appropriate demonstrations of love.
They were simply loving how they were taught to love by their parents, and their parents’ parents and so on.
11
@jbers
What does appropriate spanking look like? Does it occur to proponents of spanking, like yourself, that “bad behavior” is more likely a result of natural development, misunderstanding, miscommunication, or poorly laid out expectations — rather than flat out defiance of your authority/rules?
Children have a rough go at trying to learn all of the rules of our world and discern what exactly it is parents/others they encounter expect in all instances — each different from the next.
With limited vocabularies, underdeveloped brains, lacking experience, and often conflicting information from caretakers, most children do their best to respond how they understand to do so — yet are being punished as if those things are never a factor. Less thought is given to utilizing empathy, understanding, and perhaps better explanation of expectations in place of spnaking — and it comes at an unfortunate risk to our childrens’ physical/mental/emotional well-being.
9
I think a lot of comments here are confounding 2 very different things: child abuse and corporal punishment. Spanking doesn't necessarily teach anything different than a timeout. They're just different means to the same end–there are negative consequences to bad actions.
As a kid, I believed in God because I was told to and I feared the negative consequences. I did what I was supposed to because there was a "quantifiable" spanking for doing otherwise. I got spanked by everybody from teachers to uncles, aunts, parents, etc.. Perhaps I was different, but as a kid I wasn't forming inductive/deductive arguments to determine what was right from wrong. As I grew older, my brain developed and I started to think for myself as most people do. I started to question god, determine morality through reading, reasoning, etc... the spanking also transitioned to reasoning with my parents.
I am not saying that spanking is the best way to teach children right from wrong. If the research shows there are better methods, then I'm all for that, but let's not confuse child abuse with spanking. They are very different.
I have never once questioned my love for my parents because what they have provided and sacrificed for me certainly transcends spanking.
4
The thing which concerns me most is how kids with developmental delay seem to get physically punished worse and more often. This ends up exacerbating existing behavioural problems to the point it’s hard to distinguish cognitive delay (they don’t understand) from defiance.
7
My father used to spank me up the stairs regularly and send me to my bedroom, usually after dinner when I was around 8, 9 and 10 in the 90's. His temper became a real problem after my parents marriage began falling apart, but the real origin of his rage was that was repeating the cycle of abuse with me that he experienced at the hands of his alcoholic father. The abuse was also verbal because I was an intelligent outcast and both he praised me and punished for me it. I remember when I was younger he spanked me so hard my red skin was both burning and numb and welted with a handprint that I looked at in the mirror feeling humiliated, betrayed and angry. It was emotionally and physically so painful. Especially when it was a punishment for no reason, just pure rage. I still carry a lot of shame and anger with me to this day and am a 'highly sensitive person' with major trust and relationship issues. Like someone else said, I also flinch.
Spanking is a gateway drug for parents — later when I was 15, he beat me again causing bruises and welts which my therapist at school noticed and called DCFS. I'll never forget that because it was the worst humiliation of it all, having to undress at school and show them my bruises. There was no real course of action to get him to stop. I no longer talk to him and it haunts me. I've struggle w major depression, ptsd/anger, and bpd symptoms as I've grown up. Children should never be punished with physical or verbal abuse. It alters you forever.
26
I'm so sorry you had to deal with this.
6
I am surprised that this is news. Developmental psychologists have known about the negative effects of physical punishment for decades. I taught that in child development classes back in the 1960s. And when we were planning the national evaluation of the then-new Early Head Start program, we knew we had to assess the program’s effectiveness in reducing spanking and encouraging parents to use more positive forms of discipline. And the programs did it!
6
I was spanked: by hand, belt, hairbrush and flyswatter. All four could be characterized as hitting. All four methods made me run from my parents. When I saw my mother reach for the flyswatter on top of the fridge I ran, when I saw my father begin to take his belt off I ran, and the windup for a spank was unmistakable and hardest to run from. I don't remember ever running towards my parents. I never missed them. But no one would know that as I am, still, very devoted to living parent. I don't have any kids and I don't know how you could hit one.
15
the problem with these studies is that they are inherently bad studies. how do you measure aggression? how do you tease out the confounding factors that muddy the issue? korea and japan have higher rates of corporal punishment in the home compared to the US. which country has higher rates of teenage violence and mass killings? ahhh, but you say there are other factors as well. my point exactly.
4
One thing spanking does teach children: sometimes violence is the way to make people do what you want.
I am an educator, and I've had many parents come to me at a loss as to how handle misbehavior. My answer is always the same: whatever this child has that makes them happy, they have because you provided it. Start by taking away something they dearly love, and make them earn it back. Give clear guidelines, and be firm. Corporal punishment is often the last reserve of weak parents. It might help you blow off steam, but it becomes less effective each time you employ it, and whatever lessons it teaches are dubious at best.
10
That spanking I got for playing in traffic was quite effective. I’m still alive. That was a spanking. I’ve never experienced a beating.
6
@Peggy Dressell Imagine a child asks this question:
"Mommy, how do I know if you're spanking me too hard?"
What's an appropriate answer?
@Peggy, you are very lucky that you didn’t choose the homicidal maniacs for parents that many people ended up with. All joking aside, you are fortunate that your parents didn’t choose to to hurt you rather than discipline you.
1
The learned doctors define spanking as “noninjurious, openhanded hitting.”
By “non-injurious” they probably mean, or think they mean, not physically injurious. But all the rest of their statement outlines the psychic and physical damage that can and does result, including physical damage to the brain (reduced gray matter).
“Non-injurious,” then, except according to the doctors’ own findings very likely damaging to a child’s psyche and physically injurious to the brain.
I’d say the docs need a better definition. Or could it be that there is no injury-free corporal punishment and therefore it’s impossible to define the injury, whether emotional or physical, out of existence?
4
@Ed Someday, instead of just photos of bruises as evidence in child abuse cases, prosecutors may also present brain images indicating trauma.
4
My parents were ignorant and impoverished but still had eight kids that survived childhood. Kids that any parent would be proud of. Nearly all of us were the smartest kids in grade school classes. Several of us had outstanding talents early on, winning competitions in spelling and singing. We now range in age from 50 - 63, and although seven of us graduated college, one of us died a suicide, most of us are divorced, we don’t have a lot of kids and we do not have close family ties. Thanks to a brutal childhood full of beating and screaming. It cannot be emphasized enough do not hit your kids. What on earth would be worth the suffering endured by my siblings? Ever smelled the body of a suicide rotting in her apartment for two weeks in summer heat? Don’t want to? Then do not hit your kids.
13
How many children have had their lives severely affected by this physical abuse called "spanking?" Not only is physical harm a great danger especially from slaps to the head but brain damage and PTSD can be the result from years of any kind of physical and verbal abuse. Furthermore, some think that children abused by authoritarian parents will often grow up to be authoritarian themselves (Republicans).
6
The research has been out there for decades. People hit and degrade their children as it was done to them. Our prisons are filled with abusive people who have been beaten themselves. Physical aggression doesn’t solve anything but it is emblematic of what the US has come to represent to the world and to itself. No one hits children because it is good for the child. They hit because it is enormously gratifying to overpower another out of one’s own helpless rage.
11
What about screaming/yelling at kids? Any expert opinion? I personally believe that they are equally cruel and wrong and can have lasting negative effects on kids.
5
My story is a bit like RM’s. My firefighter dad used to physically beat me from the time I was about 4 or 5 until I was 13. He once slapped me in the face at the dinner table when we had company. I asked, “What did I do?,” and he laughed and said, “That’s for the next time you do something wrong that I don’t know about.” It hurt more that he laughed at me in front of our neighbors than the sting on my face.
He would become enraged and scared me to death. He put welts on me with a belt and would slap me repeatedly on the face and on my head and neck after I’d fallen to the ground to cower. He also slapped one of my 3 sisters on a regular basis.
My mom tried to hit me when I was 14. I grabbed her arms and held her wrists together. She growled that I had better let her go. But I would not let her go and she could not get away. She became so frustrated that she began laughing. Then I let her go.
My dad died 14 years ago. I haven’t missed him for a minute.
I’m very happy now, but it’s 45 years later and I’ve been seeing a really good mental health therapist for the past 20 years. And I saw several for 20 years before that. I don’t think the “spankings” were beneficial in my life.
119
@Scott..my heart goes out to you.
12
@Scott,
I often wondered if I would care if one of my abusive parents died. Then my dad died. And I did not care.
23
@Scott I'm sorry for your suffering and I am glad you sought therapy for your trauma. Bless you.
15
My Mother was a spanker and my Brother and I called her 'The Witch'. I remember her yelling at my Father because he refused to hit me. Eventually he gave in to her threats and started smacking me. This only happened one time. Not surprisingly I have suffered from chronic depression and anxiety all my life. My Mother has never apologized for her behavior.
14
I was on the receiving end of regular beatings from my mother, sometimes in the moment, sometimes over some weeks old behavior she worked up while washing dishes (which she chose to do). And she forbid holding up your arms to protect yourself. “What! You raise your hands to your mother?!”
It was brutal and the memories are still vivid. Worse, she sometimes came to cry on my child’s shoulder about it. No sorrow, she wanted me to comfort her.
Avoid getting physical with your children.
10
Just ask yourself what it teaches. Corporal punishment teaches that physical force is a legitimate and useful way of solving problems that arise between individuals.
7
My father used a belt to beat my brother and I versus a spanking, which is what our mother did. There is a major difference between the two. One was terrifying and painful. The other a joke. It wasn't until I dressed out for PE in the 7th grade with angry raised black and blue streaks on the back of my thighs and the school administrators called the military police that everything changed. My father was a career military man. He was "called on the carpet" in front of his commanding officer to explain how and why this had happened. "It was how he was raised," he explained. And this was true. It was the "spare the rod, spoil the child" mindset in the dirt poor primitive baptist rural environment he grew up in in North Carolina. Biblical scripture has contributed to more than it's share of damaging the psyches of men and women of my generation. I am 62. This incident ended corporal punishment in my family and I know my father deeply regretted what he did, with the assistance of mandatory anger management counseling he was required to take in order to continue on in his military career.
No child should ever live in an environment where they fear their parent's anger, though parenting has its own unique challenges in the era of 24/7 social media. I loved my father deeply and I know he did me. But I will always remember the dread I felt of seeing his car parked in the drive way when I knew I had messed up.
90
Thank you for speaking out.
9
@Sua Sponte - So often people use the "spare the rod, spoil the child" phrase without even knowing where in Scripture it says this. But if only people would trust in God more than the NY Times, we'd be so much better off. I had the same kind of "discipline" and despised my stepfather. However, he (like my mom) knew nothing at all about God. And what did was child abuse, not discipline. If I were actually doing something wrong and he'd been correcting me to teach me and to protect me from the world, I'd have so much more respect for him today. He was just a angry drunk though. We don't always turn out like the ones who raised us though. As Scripture warned, the world calls good things evil and will consider bad things to be fine or even good. I have never spanked my child, and I know as a result I (and my wife) have been setting him up for failure and not showing him the love he deserves. The secular world cannot understand this. That's not to say that spanking is the only way of showing love, but there is a loving purpose (when it's necessary). Our children are not pets. Positive reinforcement is not the only answer. Standing in a corner or having a time-out also isn't always the best solution. I know it's hard to do, but I do trust in God (and it comes down to so much more than simply the "spare the rod" phrase.
1
@Sua Sponte "Biblical scripture has contributed to more than it's share of damaging the psyches of men and women of my generation."
This isn't biblical. yes, the bible emphasizes discipline, and I think all here would agree a totally spoiled child grows up to be a waste of oxygen. But the overriding biblical mandate is LOVE. And it sounds like that was missing from your equation.
4
Spanking teaches all the wrong lessons, the worst being that might makes right. I'm so glad that I was somehow able to see through these false lessons as a child. When I was beaten, I swore to myself that I would remember how it felt and that if I became a father I would never treat my own child that way. Fortunately I remembered this promise and carried it out. On the rare occasions when our son misbehaved, simply letting him know that we disapproved and why (with a time out and a talk) was punishment enough. He has grown up to be a fine adult.
102
@David F. And so have you! Be proud.
13
I would never hit my kids, my dog, my cat, or my husband. How can hitting someone you love ever improve a relationship?
142
Spanking teaches a child that it's acceptable for the bigger, stronger person to use physical force to control and punish the smaller, weaker person. It teaches them that they do not control their own bodies, rather the bigger, stronger person does. Is that the lesson we want our children to learn? Is that what we want them to carry into their adulthood?
108
@Catherine F That's the philosophy of the Republican Party, in a nutshell. I'm sure many adult Republicans were abused as children.
13
Spanking is illegal in Sweden, still I admit that there were times when I was real close to doing that to my kids, real glad that I did not cross that line. Thing is that from the moment that you have used physical violence against your kids, you have lost the power to influence then with more peaceful means.
77
@Ingemar Johansson And just what "peaceful means" would you recommend? Having a stern talk?
These are children, not adults. They will tune out your "talking" in about 2 seconds.
If you think spanking is physical violence, then I guess by that argument, a stern conversation is verbal abuse. Painting with a broad brush like that goes nowhere.
1
My mother spanked me regularly with a spatula--and I had to go get it from the kitchen. Then a few days later, we'd make cookies together using that same spatula. Very confusing and I flinch when people make unexpected moves around me. I agree--no spanking, but if you do, at least don't make your child go get the instrument of punishment.
51
Any disciplinary method/action can be abusive under the wrong circumstances -- swotted with force? Hit regularly? Locked in a closet like Harry Potter? All bad. Personally, I'm in favor of a world where kids so respect their parents (and where parents respect their kids) that they don't rebel, but I'm a dreamer. On rare occasions, I believer there are times when a swot on the rear can be enormously effective -- but if it happens every week, if you've been hit so hard you can't sit down - that's not spanking, that a beating. The more often it happens, the harder it lands, the less effective it'll be.
1
One, my parents figured that out in the 40's. Two, education profs at MSU in the 60's opposed spanking in school or at home. So, what's taking everyone so long to figure out the obvious?
4
Based on the descriptions in this article, it sounds like studies that try to link corporeal punishmemt vs. adult outcomes show (negative) correlation, which I hope we all know, is a big step away from showing causation. I assume that ethics boards would never allow a controlled experiment, which would most decisively resolve the issue.
I think if you do dispense corporeal punishmemt, it must not serve as an anger outlet. A child is no punching bag. I think most parents understand this, and I think that's why spanking has gone out of favor.
3
@Daniel Wong,
Beating children has not gone out of favor anywhere, but especially not the US. Most US citizens still believe that beating children is a wonderful, great thing.
And this leaves the rest of us to pay taxes to support the millions of people who are in prison because they were raised by the belt. Look it up. The USA has the highest rate of incarceration in the history of humanity. Think we raise our kids right? No.
5
Can we have more research and articles about non violent strategies that are more effective? Most people don't have the imagination or experience to know what parenting without aggression could be like and how it can enhance their lives and their children's growth and wellbeing.
My father's corporal punishment--he was a headmaster so we literally got paddled-- taught me nothing. Eventually, I hit him back and then we were done with that. Trying my best to use positive discipline strategies with my kids has reaped rewards I would have never imagined. My kids understand themselves and have an internalized sense of right from wrong (not harming others, consideration, kindness, and caring for others) that I know are from my choosing a better way of parenting. I feel more calm and patient with myself and my family. You don't have to get it perfectly, but there are ways to discipline (which means teach, not punish) that benefit us all.
18
@Ms B "Eventually, I hit him back and then we were done with that. "
I am fascinated with what this suggests about the parents in these types of scenarios.
1
I could not agree more. I remember fearing my mother most of my childhood and even into college because of the spankings of beatings I received.
Personally, I see greater social implications behind using spankings to discipline children. Spanking children can teach children the wrong approach to dealing with disagreements. Namely, if I don't like what you did, violence is an appropriate response. What repercussions can that have on the playground, in adulthood, or with a national leader who must decide when to use armed forces?
29
Haven’t we known for decades that spanking is deleterious to human development? Like smoking, my parents knew in the 1940s that smoking cigarettes and spanking children were damaging activities that had long term physical and mental health consequences. As a result, my siblings and I grew up un-spanked and non smokers, and raised our own children likewise. Seems to have worked quite well.
12
Of course every child and every family situation is different, and what works or fails with one will not work or fail with another.
But in my experience: what spanking teaches most is: Might Makes Right. Which is not something you want kids to learn.
I was spanked numerous times as a child and once knocked to the ground by a full facial slap by my mom for lying. Sometimes my impression at the time was that I "had it coming." Other times not, or that it was more for the parent's benefit than mine.
As a stay-at-home father in the 1980s+, I first spanked one of my two children when he ran into the street despite my yelling at him to stop. The spank was measured and modest. It was done in part with the intent of preventing a greater danger, which could arguably be good. But in other part it was done to relieve the anger and fear I felt, which was bad. My son immediately yelled, "You don't hit me!" And that brushed away any sense on my part that it might be good. I knew immediately that he was right. I hugged him, told him he was right, promised to never hit him again, and held to that, never hitting any child again for any reason.
16
My mother was a screamer. It made me an anxious, emotional mess. As a parent, I'm a fan of timeout. Timeout gives our son a chance to reflect on what he's done and me a chance to figure out how to problem solve the situation without resorting to yelling.
24
Virtually all parents spanked or used other physical discipline up until the past few decades. You would think that after such a widespread change in parenting behavior, we would see major improvements in the behavior, social relationships, and mental health of children as a group. Yet I'm not aware of any studies showing that children are more well-adjusted nowadays. It is true that many seem to have closer relationships with their parents. But other than that, most studies I've seen show that the social behavior and mental health of children collectively has been in decline. Perhaps parents are trading in higher standards for social behavior in order to have a closer relationship with their children.
One thing I am absolutely sure of: while spanking has gone out of style, there has been a huge INCREASE in the number of children who feel it's acceptable to hit their parents. This is something one would NEVER have seen 30 years ago. Nowadays it is not that uncommon to see a young child hit his mother in public.
29
@kryptogal Not uncommon?? I have NEVER seen anything that comes even close. What you most commonly see is whining incolsolably. Obnoxious, but hardly out of control.
You claim people are behaving worse these days, and suggest there is a link to the decline of corpereal punishment. I am not aware of any such findings (admittedly, I do not subscribe to such literature). Please, share.
5
@kryptogal
Not advocating spanking but @kryptogal raises a number of worthy questions.
4
@kryptogal: not only that...the same kids hit TEACHERS and they hit OTHER CHILDREN.
Because they know the worst punishment is a "time out".
I volunteer tutoring kids 8-11 in an after school program at the public library....I've seen just the most awful behaviors. And this is a middle class suburb, not the inner city. The kids hit EACH OTHER -- bully any weaker kids -- hit the volunteers and librarians -- throw books or pencils at us -- call each other and us awful names, swear and curse. We are forbidden to touch them in any way, not even a gentle hand on a shoulder. We can TELL THEM to take a time out, but we can't enforce it, so typically they just run out of the library and down the street.
It is very clear from their demeanor and words, that the kids are exhilarated from the power and freedom they feel to act out and be bad, with no real repercussions!
I certainly do not think that we should be HITTING them, but what WOULD work? what we are doing now does not work in any way, shape or form -- and the problem seems to stem from their every day actions/treatment in the public schools. They are used to the freedom to act out and be violent, with no punishment but "time outs".
7
My parents never had to spank me and my siblings. My mother handed out most of the discipline by just giving us a look that scared us into staying in line. She was a little over 5 feet tall but that look she gave was scary. We called her "the General."
8
My parents didn't hit us - often. But emotional abuse is as bad, maybe worse. My mother was good at that one. Along with a complete lack of warm, supportive behavior, although my siblings and I were "well cared for" otherwise. The last argument I had with mom was around age 21, when she said, "Cut it out, you're acting like a child." I said, "So are you." Then she slapped me right across the face.
I left my home town for a permanent life on the other coast about a year later, and I never missed her a single day, not one.
40
@Mary Ann I hear you -- brought up the same way, and when she died, I have never missed her. I want to be such a better mother to my children than my mother was to me.
5
The 1989 Convention on the Rights of the Child, addressed this issue. However, the United States didn't ratify the treaty and is now the only holdout. Why? Because the United States feels that their sovereignty will be compromised. Sad.
18
Some people are saying they were spanked occasionally, and it was a good thing. They learned from the punishment. What if the child is spanked repeatedly? What if the punishment is delayed ("wait until your father gets home")? What if the punishment really is unjust? For some reason, I was so stubborn I would continue to do whatever it was that provoked the angry threats and the spankings. I found the punishments unjust and did not change my behavior for the better. But I became withdrawn and my self worth plummeted, negatively affecting nearly every area of my life for decades.
20
Cue the crowd that says "I got spanked and it didn't hurt me any." Meanwhile, a lot of those people are disasters due to bad parenting but they aren't self-aware enough to get it.
Spanking is a lazy way for an angry parent to exert control. It's easier than talking to your child so he/she understand what they did wrong and why it's wrong. I was spanked (beaten, really) and while I know my parents did it with good intentions, I had to really deal with anger issues as an adult. I have never spanked my child and she is WAY more self-disciplined and self-motivated than I ever was. Why? She's not acting out of fear.
40
After reading many of the comments, I noticed a lot of statements like, “My mother/father only had to spank me once/twice and I learned my lesson.” What about the child who doesn’t learn their lesson after a good spanking? What do you do then?
My siblings view getting spanked as an effective disciplinary tool by parents who loved us but didn’t know better. I am one of 6 siblings but only I was spanked so often that one of my brothers jokingly said in adulthood that I must have loved them because I kept doing things to get them.
I guess I never learned my lesson, because I was spanked repeatedly (and we called them beatings, not spankings), which did not stop until I was too big to allow it to be done to me anymore. To my family, I was either dumb, stubborn, or sadistic. To me, I was just a child.
32
What these comments show is that it is possible to scar a child for life by spanking them.
Even if most children would be fine receiving an occasional swat, and some might even be better behaved, why would anyone want to take the chance?
Every parent knows how quickly a child can change. What hardly bothers them one day may leave a terrible lasting memory a few weeks later. The only way to be sure that spanking will not harm a child is not to spank them. The only way to make sure you will never condition children to accept physical and emotional abuse is not to spank them.
22
If hitting children were good for them and not hitting them were bad for them, our prisons would be full of adults who were never hit as children.
But the exact opposite is true. The vast majority of prisoners were hit as children.
Don't hit your children.
51
@Somewhere
This is an interesting soft statistic... Can you share the source of your statement? I would be interested in reading it. (I realize that this may read like a snarky response, but it's not meant to be. I am a social worker and would like to read your source/s.)
It also does not address a couple converse implications - that most people who are not hit don't go to prison, and that most people who are hit do go to prison.
My parents spanked me growing up, and I can tell you right now it was the wrong way to parent me. It did not make me want to behave for them. It did not make me respect them. It only made me angry, stubborn, and much, much more sneaky. And I would never let them know just how much they were hurting me. I refused to scream or cry and I invited them to, go ahead, hit me again.
My teachers and friends' parents who talked to me, explained things to me, who were patient with me, who used firm but fair discipline, who never screamed or called me names were the ones I had total respect for and who I always behaved for because I never wanted to disappoint them. If there was something wrong and I needed someone to talk to, they were the ones I went to for help.
I have raised my four amazing kids without ever hitting them. I remembered how it made me feel and how counterproductive it was and I vowed I would not raise my children the same way I was raised.
178
@KaraBoo
Just discipline doesn't help when children are unable to tell the difference, Understanding is something parents are suppose to help their kids obtain. Explaining things prior to discipline it the mark of a good parent.
2
@KaraBoo Then it wasn't the spanking that was wrong. It was the lack of love.
I was spanked by my parents growing up. My father used a belt. They never "hit" me. And they always reinforced loving me in many ways, and emphasized that I EARNED the discipline that I got. And you know? They were RIGHT, I really DID earn it.
They are in their 80's now. I love them both and see them as often as I can.
1
It's such a slippery slope from "spankings" to physical abuse that I doubt many parents can navigate it. Once you start hitting your children, you have changed that relationship and you can never go back. If you hit your kids, it will effect them negatively for the rest of their lives. It greatly effected me and took me most of my adult life to recover. I never have and never will treat my children that way.
102
@Andrew (sigh) "hitting" is not spanking. Seems like a lot of people here don't know the difference.
1
@Andrew Completely disagree. A strong, firm spanking of a 2-8 year old, when behavior is drastically out of control, or choices are dangerous to them or those around them is not abuse, it is tough love.
I was spanked as a kid using these same parameters, as was my parents, and we are all successfully, happy, God fearing adults today.
I'm guessing you don't have kids?
Being hit never corrected me. It just made me angry. Why don't we beat adults for their transgressions? Certainly, adults should know better?
81
As a young girl sharing a small home with six other children - adventurous children - I do not agree with this group's opinion at all. I am also a Christian and believe "spare the rod, spoil the child". Spanking is absolutely necessary at the appropriate time. Since when does reasoning with a defiant child, putting him/her on your level make a better parent. I have witnessed parents trying to reason with a child, destroying a grocery store or having tantrums only to get whats wanted - to no avail. Yeah, fear, in other words respect and discipline (well-mannered) always worked when I was growing up. It only took a glance and we knew to straighten up! We are now all professionals, continue to respect our elders and authority and do not regret being disciplined -- by spanking (sometimes).
13
Fear and respect are not the same thing; quite the opposite in fact!
I feared my father because he spanked and belted me regularly, and I was a good kid, A’s up and down the report card in school, evenings and weekends filled with extracurricular activities. I did not respect him, I feared him. I respected my mom because she never put a hand on me and allowed me to make mistakes and corrected misbehavior without physical violence, or even the threat of it. My mom says our dad could be loving and cuddly too, but I don’t remember any of that, only the fear and anxiety of the belt if I made a mistake in front of him.
Fear leaves a lasting and damaging impression on young hearts and minds.
82
@Lisa C I am not a parent but I have long observed that children are very adept at mimicking parents' behavior. They soak up the tone of the atmosphere in which they are raised and it has a much more substantial effect on them than what you tell them (i.e. don't do this, do that). So why would you want to teach them to use physical violence to solve problems? You wouldn't if you want them to be successful, happy adults.
22
@Lisa C There are many other ways to discipline that are kinder. Children learn by example - and look at the example you're setting - treating children violently. I'd doubt that your children will have much to do with you when they're adults.
7
A couple of years ago, I accompanied my son and four grandkids to an amusement park/farm that had slides, petting zoo, trampoline-type activities and various rides. My 4 year old grandson started throwing stones. It was not violent behavior, but it was aimed at his brothers and sisters. We tried once, twice just reprimanding. He is a child who thinks getting a rise out of adults is funny. The third time I took him and swatted his behind. My children (I had two) never needed physical punishment. They would have reacted badly to it. But they were not like this child. What else do you do in an environment where there is no place for a time out, or go to your room? He stopped throwing stones, but I have felt badly about it since. He is older now and responds to verbal directions much better. If you had been there, what would you do, aside from go home and punish the other kids for his misbehavior?
9
It’s never easy to navigate the world of parenting, particularly when you’re put on the spot in public, with siblings and others taking note of your behavior. Given the situation (and the fact that you asked), I would have gathered the 4 year old and as many of his siblings as expedient, and asked him how he would feel if his siblings threw rocks at him...would he like that? How would it feel if one of those rocks hit him? What if one of the rocks hit an animal by mistake and hurt it, how does he think that would make him feel? Taking a moment to pause and think about consequences to ones actions, is never to early to learn. What always surprised me was the answers I got whenever I would ask that same child what they thought their punishment should be; they are often very clever at arriving at solutions we never consider.
6
@candideinnc There are alot of good strategies you can find in books like Positive Discipline. You or your son could have removed the 4 year old from the group while the other took the kids on the rides. Sit with him (hold him if necessary) and explain to him that he cannot do dangerous things. He can join the others if he will be safe. Remove him again if he continues. You can also redirect him with offering something else to do instead: "It is not safe to throw rocks. You can help us pick the next ride instead." Calm reinforcement of the behavior you want is far more effective than punishment. Discipline means to teach, not to punish.
12
@Ms B I agreed with you until the reward for throwing rocks by letting the child pick the next ride. That is an inappropriate use of re-direction.
2
I was fortunate to have never felt a hand in anger from either of my parents. The same for my first son.
However I did spank my sons from my second marriage sons a couple of times, but couldn't keep it up. They still remember both occasions with clarity and I with shame.
Think we all know it isn't the right way to go and why we do it must be personal frustration.
18
It is good that you remember the times you hurt your children with shame. It is a start at least.
2
I was beaten with a belt on a regular basis by my dad from the time I was 10 until I left home at 18. I never had children because I was afraid I, too, would be a violence-prone parent.
Decades later, I was listening to public radio discussion about child development. The expert was explaining the reason teenage children fight with their parents is because it is at this stage of life that they need to learn from their parents about conflict management. Made sense to me.
64
@Yardbird I'm sorry you went through that. You are not alone. I too decided not to have children, one of the major reasons being a fear of repeating the way I was raised.
16
@Tabitha and @Yardbird so far in life, me too.
3
I personally believe the risks outweigh the benefits when it comes to spanking, especially from a long term perspective. I can't really think of a situation where spanking would help correct my children's behavior in the long run when there are other effective, non-physical methods available. I also can't really think of a situation where spanking would have corrected my own behavior. My parents were raised in homes and a culture (Vietnam in the 1940s and 50s) where corporal punishment was the rule. But they decided not to continue that practice when they raised my 6 siblings and me in the U.S. They certainly disciplined us and were strict in many ways, but they didn't resort to spanking and the like. I think in the end, we (in our 40s and 50s) all turned out well behaved, successful, and without any social-emotional problems. I can't say the same thing for my husband who was raised in a household that resorted to corporal punishment. While he's successful, he definitely has struggled more emotionally and psychologically throughout his life.
34
We'd all be better off if media and professionals would stop the one-liner parenting advice. I'm sure this is good advice for affluent, two-parent household with educated in modern child rearing thinking, with peer pressure in the right direction.
But is this practical in a household more concerned about food on the table than long-term relationships, where 1 parent juggle 2 jobs and worries more about getting home from school alive than getting A's, where physical punishment is the norm in your social group.
I spent endless time and energy considering how to respond to misbehavior at all ages, sometimes responding too little or not at all. That's a bad choice if the wrong behavior can get your kid shot. i wonder if even my kids might have been better off with a less-stressed mom and an occasional swat.
These articles are narrow-minded and aimed at the lucky few.
22
I totally disagree. If anything, less affluent parents are more in need of ongoing, cooperative relationships with children because they will not have resources to hire caregivers when they age. Further, the idea that wealthy children should be treated with respect while poor children may be hit with impunity because their parents are stressed is irrational and discriminatory.
41
@Laura
Not really. If you look at empirical studies of corporal punishment and child abuse, it has a disproportionate impact on low income families.These are the kids that need the most protection. There are many other things these families need, like income, child care and good employment, but violence against children only multiplies the impact of poverty on kids and families. You raise an important point about stress and poverty, but your conclusion isn't accurate.
28
@Laura The one thing that research (actual research) shows is that children who are raised in adverse circumstances can weather the effects of food insecurity and dangerous neighborhoods, if they have a loving and safe relationship with a caregiver. More than the kids with economic resources, poor kids need to have adults who will not be violent with them if they are to have good outcomes as adults. Look up ACES (Adverse Childhood Experiences) research.
19
I always got a kick out of Joe Namaths quip," I was 14 years old, before I learned my name wasn't, shut up." The nun's whacking our knuckles with a ruler, was enough to keep us in line.
5
@Dan Green
Actually the nuns whacking (y)our knuckles with a ruler was enough to keep you/us in line for that day for as long as you/ I were in the nuns' presence and under their supervision.
1
@Dan Green,
You may think of child abuse as funny, but it is not funny to those of us who have been subjected to it as children and forced to deal with its consequences as adults. Believe me, it is not funny when you smell the dead body of your sister two weeks after she has killed herself in her tiny apartment because of the abuse visited on her as a tiny little girl.
3
Substitute "spanking" with what it really is: "physically assaulting."
87
I was raised in a very chaotic household. My mother, being a devout fundamentalist Christian, believed in spare the rod spoil the child.
In the south, especially the rural religious south, spanking is a way of life. You're not raising them right if you're not hitting your child. After all, our parents were spanked as a child and THEY turned out just fine!
I sought psychotherapy for the first time recently. While reviewing my history, I was asked if I'd been physically abused. Sheepishly, I recounted the extensive punishments I went through growing up. I felt embarrassed to confess out loud the effect it had on me.
My therapist then said, "Big people shouldn't hit little people. Period." I burst into tears. I'm 32 years old, and I have never heard that before.
My mother may have thought by physically punishing me she was teaching respect and character. As a child it taught me fear, resentment, anger, sadness. As a adult it's lead me to always be on edge around her as if she could still find a belt and whoop me. We aren't close and I suspect spanking has a lot to do with that.
203
@Tabitha
Sorry, but she was ignorant and you were abused. I wouldn't have anything to do with her and would tell her why.
8
A colleague of mine once asked: If you had a shampoo that was used on children's hair for generations and now researchers were discovering that this shampoo was linked to an increased likelihood of all sorts of health and behavioral problems like aggression, problems connecting to other people, depression, etc. It did't mean that everyone who used the shampoo had these problems only that the likelihood increased in comparison to those who never used the shampoo. Would you use the shampoo on your children? This shampoo was used on you but you see to be OK, but you know there are other shampoos that clean hair just as well, would you still used the 'tried and true' shampoo on your children? Would you take the risk for your children? Does this remind you of smoking? Spanking? Just asking!
24
@Lucien Lombardo The relevant phrase is "there are other shampoos that clean hair just as well". Even if you believe the doctor's recommendation, the alternatives are much, much harder to the point of being incomprehensible to some, at least if you weren't raised that way.
3
@Lucien Lombardo
Best comment yet. Thanks!
2
@Laura The alternatives are actually much easier long term. It takes a bit more effort while they're little, but none of my three have rebelled as teens or behaved badly. We have a close warm relationship and I am always appalled when people say your teens will hate you and be embarrassed by you. All three of mine (including the boys) blow me kisses when I drop them someplace. Teens are easy peasy if you treat them right as kidlets. And mine were not easy kidlets either, two got kicked out of pre-school for bad behavior and all were diagnosed with ADHD. It took therapy for all of them to help figure out how best to parent for each one's individual needs.
6
This makes a lot more sense to me: It states that corporal punishment outcomes depend on *how* it is applied, and negative outcomes only followed when it is normally the *first* recourse, or if the child is severely beaten:
https://humansciences.okstate.edu/hdfs/directory/images/larzelere-kuhn-2005.pdf
5
@polymath Parents who resort to hitting their children have lost control, and are expressing their anger, not teaching, when they hit. Why are people so eager to defend a practice that is not useful?
The legal system calls adult on adult hitting "assault". How can you believe that an adult hitting a child is anything different?
19
spanking, like yelling, represents a loss of control on behalf of trusted adults. It's a visceral type of scary. I'm no perfect parent - discipline is so much work and mental chess, and it's always needed when you're at your most tired and vulnerable - but I hate to think of my kids replaying the scenes in their heads - being thrown down on a bed and hit by a sweating, yelling adult - as I have as an adult. We have family who spanks their kids at the slightest infraction. In public, they are shamed and thumped on their heads. It breaks my heart and makes everyone around cringe.
63
Gee, beating a child is harmful? Who knew?
24
My daughter thought it would be funny to make her little brother eat one of my Thai chilies. Should I have (A) Hit her (B) Make her eat a chili herself (C) Talk to her. What would you do?
1
@MarquinhoGaucho I think I'd feel like (A) and be very tempted to (B) but hope I would (C). Did she see the effect it had on him? Did she still find it funny after she saw what she did? If the answer is no, I could see why (A) and (B) would look more attractive...
5
@MarquinhoGaucho I confess. I would have gotten a glass of milk at the ready, and then I would have forced her to bite into a chile, followed at the first ouch by the healing glass of milk. I would have bitten into the chile, too, to show the courage of my convictions. Your daughter may not have known how much it hurt, but sometimes you need to teach empathy the hard way.
1
Take something away she enjoys. Screen time, sugar, what have you. An age appropriate amount. Stick with it, even if she cries or cajoles incessantly. Explain it was abusive and won't be tolerated on any level. Let her know hurting others is something your family won't accept ever. Try the book 123 Magic. It worked wonders for my family and was recommended by a child therapist friend.
1
Neither my father nor his brothers believed in spankings to correct misbehavior. The face drooping with disappointment was sufficient admonishment. However, on two memorable occasions my mother felt my crimes deserved the punishment: (1) I was caught leaning out a third-floor window. A few swats on the backside and tearful hugs made me give up my Supergirl fantasy. (2) My mother noticed a ring on my finger. I told her I had found it at my cousin's house. To her "finding" anything was synonymous with stealing. The spanking with heavy emphasis on the word "theft" echoes in my head still. These teaching moments did not hurt my bottom nearly as much as they wounded my feelings. Today, if I fall out a window, look for who pushed me. Biggest lesson: Thou shall not steal.
10
Missing from these comments are the stories - and I've heard a few from some long-time friends - of young men who were spanked (or beaten) regularly by their fathers -- until the day came when they'd reached a point where they could fend off the "spanking" - and defend themselves --
Imagine what it's like hearing one of your friends say --
"My father used to spank me all the time - until one day I got big enough to fight back - and then I beat the living daylights out of him -- and he never dared raise a hand to me again" --
One wonders where those people appear in this "Scientific Study" ...
28
I will add a daughter/mother story to that. My mother hit freely until I started hitting back at around age 16. I have grown children and lived up to my promise to myself that I would not lower myself to her level. I only have a (rather strained )relationship with her because it makes my father happy. My adult kids call and visit me frequently. I am happy with my decision not to hit my kids.
26
@Mari Same here. I was 5'10" at age 11. My step mother was 5 feet tall and slender. One day I realized I could take her and I did. Knocked her to the ground and kicked her repeatedly, just as she had done to me when I was little. I told her if she ever hit me again or reported this beating by me to the police, I would kill her in her sleep. I told my father, who had always ignored my bruises and broken bones, the same thing. She never touched me again and I, 40 years later, have never raised my hand to another person or my dogs. It took me years to believe my husband was as gentle as he seemed.
12
Those are not spankings, those are beatings. Spanking is done at the moment of the offense & only after having been told not to do it. Never anywhere but the hiney & never naked hiney. Never more than 3 or 4 swats with open hand. Anywhere else is an abuse & use of fist is forbidden. There has to be some form of discipline. Talking & time outs don’t work.
And this is why there is so much crime done by kids under 15. Children are not punished by time outs...they sit there & plot how they will get even. What pediatricians really want is for parents to bring their children in to get them on drugs instead of discipline. No discipline...No respect...more misbehaving children because parents can't control them any more without being reported for child abuse. Kids were spanked (not beaten) for centuries & it did not damage them all. You learned to behave to avoid the spanking. One of the doctors reported that spanking caused less grey matter in the brain??? Really??? Another suspicious study done with one or two participants maybe?
5
It’s hard to avoid spankings when your parents’ behavior is unpredictable. My son is well-behaved and I have never hit him. He seems a lot more emotionally well-adjusted than I was a kid.
31
@Nostradamus Said So Blessedly, you are in the minority. There is no evidence to prove your point beyond feelings. People used to think child labor was a good idea, too, so what people have done for centuries seems irrelevant.
@Nostradamus Said So - Not spanking doesn't mean your child isn't disciplined. That's a huge leap in logic.
1
I was spanked by my mother on rare occasions and only on my arms or rear end. I still vividly recall the rear end spanking I got after I ran across a street without looking for any approaching vehicles. I think my mother was right.
15
I'm surprised that the rationale in favor of spanking cited in this article is that it makes *the parent* feel better ("releases tension," "clears the air"). Anger management, anyone?
26
I was spanked several times as a child. Twice, my father spanked me with his belt. I don't remember why, and I don't remember if it hurt or not. What I do remember is that it was scary and humiliating and left me feeling angry. I think at some level I never forgave him. So did it help achieve whatever it was he hoped for? I don't think so. I have never considered spanking my children.
97
@punkybrewster My experience is similar, I got spanked with a belt, not to the point of welts, but it only created anger and defiance. I was determined to get away with the behavior next time, not to avoid it.
5
Er.
Pediatricians now hold opinion X, versus opinion Y.
That's nice, but what would be actually helpful would be a recap of the study that's referenced (which is behind a paywall).
Somebody's opinion is gossip, even if they're an expert.
If they formed that opinion based on data, either share the data or decline to cover it as news.
9
this seems so obvious to me. I know some might think that anyone who doesn't follow "spare the rod, spoil the child" is just some hippie. but, I've never understood how you're supposed to help teach children to do or not to do something by hitting them. it's completely counterintuitive. children are smart and they get it. I'm not saying that I have the answer - but, I'm pretty sure hitting isn't it.
24
Sorry folks, spanking is perfectly appropriate at times. Note that the research criticisms are about HARSH spankings and ANGRY parents. Of course these are inappropriate. But when a child violates a clearly specified rule or exhibits a failure to obey, a structured spanking may be quite in order. STOP hitting your sister. If you hit your sister, you will sit in the chair in the corner for X minutes. If you get out of the chair, you will receive a spanking. The child quickly learns. The parent does not have to be angry. Parent is following pre-determined strategies. How often have you been in the presence of an exhausted and seemingly helpless parent, begging, reasoning, cajoling, hugging and thus inadvertently
rewarding the misbehavior with rivers of attention.?? It disheartening to watch. It's fascinating to watch. Once the child learns the structure and inevitability of the spanking routine, spanking almost paradoxically becomes very very rare indeed. I have seen it scores of times. The child, in fact, is often relieved that someone, a credible adult, is finally in charge....
10
@Tom
"STOP hitting your sister." Followed by hitting your child. I cannot see how that on any level is in order or effective.
93
@Tom
You are telling your child "Don't' hit" yet you hit her. All this teaches is that the bigger people in the world hit smaller people, it shows lack of empathy and lack of self-control, all of which, I assume, you want your child to have when she grows up. It also raises their stress hormones and induces fear, which means that she is not able to learn from that moment because it is too scared, too frantic. It will in the long run not keep your children safer, because they are not learning a lesson of why and how, but rather that that shouldn't do it when you are present.
Any hitting, spanking, whooping is unsafe and should not be used. There are currently more studies that have shown how detrimental it is to a child's development than there are studies on how bad smoking is for people.
Effective parenting takes more work than hitting, and of course it is exhausting, but it is in the long run a more effective way to teach your child how be in the world.
Not to mention that a child who is spanked at home is more likely to be abused outside of the home, be it bullying or sexual abuse. This is because they are taught that they have no autonomy over their body.
13
It is effective if the child doesn’t know it hurts! When my daughter was about 2, I was changing her diaper. She grabbed my arm and bit it! I sat her up, told her OUCH, and bit her (carefully) back! She got the message loud and clear. She never bit me, or anyone else, again.
Well the article defined spanking - so that's a plus. We all know that we're talking about an act with an open hand that does not injure the person. There is more to spanking, however, than just the physical act.
But I've spanked my kids in anger and I've spanked by kids as a way to show them how serious their bad behavior was, as well as to motivate them to avoid that behavior in the future.
When I have spanked in anger, the results have been disastrous! More rebelling and yelling. When I have spanked in love, as a corrective, the results have been much more positive and effective.
4
@Brian Hunt And when you "spanked in love," did your children see it that way?
3
I'd like to chime in as someone who was never spanked, and who miraculously learned the difference between right and wrong anyway!
People have a tendency to rationalize their personal experience. "I was spanked, and I turned out okay, so it must be fine." It's difficult to consider (or to truly accept) that the alternative - you turned out okay in spite of, not because of, corporal punishment - is actually true.
What this data tells us is that millions of Americans suffered completely needlessly at the hands of their parents. That's hard to stomach, but it's true. If you're reading this and telling yourself that you're the exception, and that you were so wild and reckless that a good spanking was the only way you would learn - STOP. That's the same old rationalization. You would have learned those lessons better with empathy, compassion, and intelligent discourse with your parents.
36
It’s about time the medical community (almost) recognizes spanking children for what it really is: physical and sexual abuse. As an adult who was spanked as a child I know all too well the long term damage that spanking caused me and my siblings and the many years of counseling that has somewhat repaired that damage. There is a deep-seated emotional distrust I will always have for one of my parents and my elders in general due to this awful physical punishment I received as a child. Spanking is something that should be left to 2 consenting adults, not a parent and a helpless child. There is no lesson I learned from having to pull my pants down and submit to the pain and humiliation of my parent’s hand, such that I sometimes lost control of my bodily functions, other than that my parent was frustrated and had no more creative ways to teach me right than by doing wrong. There is a better way to raise your kids than through this unnecessary violence.
65
I was severely paddled by the principal in elementary school over minor classroom infractions like fighting with the other students.
The only thing paddling accomplished was to make me angrier.
I’ve spent my entire life controlling my temper and avoiding a violent outburst that could have landed me in prison.
16
as youth my brother and i both received spankings. ma would use what ever came easy for her. dad used the belt till he bought a board and wrote on it the board of education. by the time i was 9 or 10 i remember yelling at each of them how i would never spank my children. they both laughed at that while giving a spanking. i believe that my resentment was manifested in never getting married or raising a child. my brother got married many times but never sired a child either. yeah bogus pain for adult domination over their young. what a fallacy about nurture versus nature.
31
My parents were brought up up strict religious homes.
And when they married, they made the decision to change. The result was that I was disciplined but never spanked..
I raised my sons the same way, and they have done the same with their children.
They are all caring, loving and kind people.
I can't ask for more than that.
33
Why no comments asks nevermore? Easy, because spanking is wrong. A grown adult hits a small kid. Remember that line about pick on someone your own size?
My parents quickly went from spanking to beating with a belt. The only time my father said stop to my mother was when she broke his good leather belt. Needless to say there was not a close relationship there and not many tears when either of them passed away.
My kids were never swatted. Are my kids perfect angels? No. When little, both spent plenty of time in their room with no toys or tv or anything fun in time out to reflect on what they did and how to not do it again. They would both bemoan their miserable fate to their cat who would patiently listen to them and then they would both fall asleep. Rarely was the poor behavior repeated and both kids are now contributing members to society.
22
@Soccer Mom
That's really cute about the cat. Give them diaries you promise will be private. Maybe you'll get a playwright or two.
2
As a child, I sometimes wished that my mom would spank me instead of the "silent treatment", whereby she refused to speak to me. That was much more hurtful, especially when I didn't know why she was ignoring me and refused to tell me why.
10
@AnnaConda There are other ways she could have disciplined you besides spanking or silent treatment. I am sorry that she didn't have the skills. I am sorry for the pain you must have from that.
4
@AnnaConda
The Silent Treatment is emotional/psychological abuse.
Abuse is abuse.
A spanking might hurt for a few moments, but it stops hurting quickly. Emotional abuse hurts for a long time. Then you get hysterical. Then you beg to know why you're being shut out. Your attention is the goal.
3
@AnnaConda
My Mom did both. If I asked her a question she felt I should already know the answer to (a “stupid” question in her view) she would literally ignore me. On what planet does this make any sense whatsoever when one of the most critical roles as a parent is to teach your child?
Needless to say, I’ve obviously made the conscious and very deliberate decision to do the absolute opposite with my child. Wouldn’t have it any other way...
2
Parents should not spank or physically harm their children. This is abuse, and the only "benefit" it could have is the children fearing their parents. I don't know about you, but I don't know how any parent would want their child to fear them.
15
It's really quite simple: one would be arrested for assaulting another adult or someone else's child, so what makes anyone think they can or should assault their own child? Why would one even think to hurt his or her own child, whom they love? It's inability to control one's own anger, to compromise, to understand the damage it does. DO NOT HIT YOUR CHILDREN.
35
Discipline comes in many forms; grounding, taking away a privilege that the child holds in esteem, a strong word of rebuke, and yes, sometimes a spanking. The spanking should not be done to relieve tension for a parent - that is wrong and I would say abusive. My sisters and I were spanked from time to time, but we recieved other forms of discipline far more often. None of us are aggresive, have low IQs, and we are a very tight-knit family. As an adult, the spankings I received, my friends received...are now sources of entertainment when re-counted and we shake our heads over how terrible children are today. For those wondering, I am 41, my sisters are 35 and 33. Between the three of us, there is an accountant, a scientist, and a nurse. When done properly and out of love, a spanking can accomplish what it was meant to, grab the kid's attention and focus it in a way sometimes, other means of discipline just doesn't do. Does it work for all kid's? No, as one of my sister's told my parents, when she was about seven, "I'm going to do what I want to do." So, our parents found what did appear to be the most effective way to correct her. Today, parents must do the same while being consistent in whatever form of discipline that is used. I think that is one of the biggest problems, parents are not consistent. Tell children your expectations, and what happens when they disobey, and then follow through. I think our society needs to allow parents to decide what works best for their child
3
@Evie,
I feel terrible for you that you have not recognized how the abuse you suffered has harmed your life. But please try to think about how damaging it is for little ones to endure such pain.
To those who justify spanking because a young child is doing something dangerous: Spanking does not work any better in the situation than yelling sharply "NO!" while swooping in picking the child and placing them out of harms way while saying in your "meanest" and loud voice something along the lines of: "No [touching the knife!] [going in the street] [playing with the oven] It could hurt, hurt hurt you...ow ow ow. YOU MUST NEVER DO THAT" Your tone must be serious bordering on angry
Children respond to this sort of reprimand exactly the way you think that they do to a spanking. And you haven't taught them that the use of violence is ok
8
@AJ
Ok, but is yelling/scolding any less traumatic than spanking? This is all about trauma, right? But it's mostly about what traumatizes the parents. I'm not sure than a swift spank on the behind is any more mentally damaging than yelling. Liberals seem to have a very keen aversion to physical violence. I completely understand that, but I ski and kart. My kids will ski, ride horses, kart, and maybe play hockey. They'll be covered with bump and bruises. The best part of youth is that bumps and bruises heal. I want my kids to the kids who punch a bully in the nose.The kids who don't fear confrontation or aggression, because they've been thrown from a horse or hit in the face with a tennis ball.
My mom never spanked me. But she did scold a few times, and I can still remember her angry face vividly. Is that not a mental scar from verbal/mental punishment?
My point is just this: Don't overvalue the psychological impact of physical violence and don't undervalue the psychological impact of verbal violence or even passive aggression (my mom's favorite device).
This topic makes me think of Foucault's Discipline and Punish. Punishment always punishes something (body, spirit).
5
Explaining, scolding and calm disapproval when done without passive aggression is far more effective than spanking. The fact is that aggression and violence harms children. It is not the same as a bump or bruise from skiing. Children need safe adults to thrive. Overpowering a child is not ever okay.
6
@Ms B
If my kids' class has bully and bullied, I want my kids to be the bullies. I don't approve of bullying. I think it's terrible. But I'd rather have my kids be the bully than the ones who get bullied.
I agree with you about the superiority of calm disapproval. My pint about bullying is to show that I will put my kids' lives a hundred miles above those of everybody else. I grew up in a Sanders-y family in which politics is greater than blood. I put family above society. If my kids become slumlords, I will probably still love them just as much as if they become teachers.
Now that I am 82 I have strong opinions that what I did as young mother was not the best that I could have done. But I have one very positive recommendation.
Tell children what you want them to do. Mean it.
Say it is important to you that they do it. That it will make you happy.
Often children are told what NOT to do but have no idea how to do it right. So say what you mean, and Mean what you say.
Then children can trust in you. Give them guidelines that they can follow.
My children who are in their fifties still remember to "look both ways when crossing the street, walk quickly, but do not run."
50
The majority of social "science" data is collected using Likert Scales. There is a current debate within the Social Sciences concerning whether Likert data is more than just "ordinal" data and can be considered "cardinal" data. Most of the useful statistical tools only apply to cardinal data (meaning that the distance between the scale intervals are demonstrably identical). The problem with this effort to unjustifiably elevate ordinal data to the status of cardinal data is that the debate misses a critical hidden assumption that is false. Namely, are the data in question even found along a single dimension? Name any human opinion (so-called "variable") that has been "measured" using a 5 or 7 point Likert Scale (such as mood, satisfaction, happiness, agreement, liberalism, fear, etc.) and I challenge any Social Scientist to establish that the factors influencing where any human places herself along that scale are uni-dimensional. If they are not, then the debate about ordinality, much less cardinality, is as meaningless as the conclusions of any social science study using Likert Scales. If you don't understand the mathematics, then please don't believe the conclusions of these non-scientific studies.
3
There is simply so much not included in these studies, that it is hard as a loving parent to take them seriously. I was abused as a child. My father peddled fear so much that I was in my late 20’s before I realized that all arguments wouldn’t necessarily lead to violence. That said, I am a father of two now and am committed to not abusing my children and have spent a considerable atime studying human behavior.
All spanking is not equal and any scientist worth their salt would agree. My father broke cutting boards and wooden salad spoons against my bottom. He used my body as his coping mechanism. In contrast, I don’t hit my kids out of anger. I don’t even do it to punish them. I’m not dishing out justice, I’m providing anconsequence for negative behavior and there is a difference. The modern child is entitled and socially divorced from consequences. This is abuse!! A parent should not simply protect a child, they need to teach them how the world works and that means consequences to ground their perspective. Look at our judicial system, it’s full of hard and cruel boundaries. Say one inappropriate word and you could lose your job. It’s a punishing world. In my house, there is no fear, no shaming, no mystery; simple cause and effect. Spanking isn’t a cure, but it can be a backstop. When utilized with warning, love and explanation it can grasp the child’s attention. Love is preparing those you care for, for the world that exists, not some utopia.
13
@Bryan
A consequence should have some relation to the offence, it should make sense to the child. If a child steals something, the consequence is to make reparation to the person stolen from, not to be hit. If a child refuses to tidy up, the consequence should be a loss of a valued possession for a while, not to be hit. If a child talks back, ask them why they did it. Sometimes, if you have raised truly truthful kids, you will not like what you hear from them. You do not raise a truthful, trustworthy child by hitting them, you raise a sneaky kid who is scared of you and who has learned might is right.
4
Love is finding a better way to teach than violence.
@Bryan,
When spanking stopped, school shootings began.
I believe that this overarching rule by pediatricians is for the best, and in the long run, may even be enshired in law much further down the road in our country.
Please note that I actually DO believe that there are some rare cases of terribly behaved children in particular circumstances in which spanking likely IS the best method of behavior modification.
BUT having been spanked more than my fair share, and seen other children having been spanked as I grew up, I will say the number of adults who have the self-control and self-discipline to truly and insightfully know when this special circumstance is called for, is SO RARE that it is far better to just call for a blanket ban on it rather than subject the vast, vast majority of children to more useless beatings.
The old phrase of 'this is going to hurt me more than it hurts you' is one of the biggest lies I heard back than and angers me any time I hear that old trope brought up again by the older generations. It is simply a excuse for a powerful adult to dodge the necessary work of patiently educating their child by bullying them into fearful submission.
10
@agarose2000 Even for terribly behaved children spanking is counter-productive. A very badly behaved child is usually one that doesn't grasp negative consequences well; one where the only consequences that work are positive ones for good behavior. One of my kids is like this, willing to work hard for a good thing, but would struggle to the limit against spanking or other violent punishments.
1
@agarose2000
It’s pretty simple. One cannot physically assault adults, why is it ok to assault children?
2
@agarose2000
Best comment of the bunch here. I agree.
Parents forget how powerful, to a child, disapproval can be. Children, especially small children, rely on us for everything. So telling a child that you're disappointed, and explaining why, should be all that's required in most cases. The tremendous advantage is that you get the child on the right side of the fence, trying to figure out how to make you proud rather than how to get away with something.
Harsh punishment, whether physical or emotional, often leads to perverse results. One consequence of cognitive dissonance is that the higher a price one pays for something, the more he/she values it. So if a high price is paid for a particular conduct, that conduct may be perceived as more desirable.
Having said all of that, the most powerful tool for behavior modification is positive feedback. The best option is to trick them into doing what we want them to do, coupled with generous recognition. Then expect the behavior, and require more going forward to achieve the same recognition.
17
A parent's main job is not just to teach children right from wrong, but to give them an entire paradigm with which to approach life. I was raised to see the family as loving and communal, where everyone had rights, and by extension, to see the world that way. I learned that even though my parents were bigger, smarter and stronger than me, which could be terrifying, I had nothing to fear because I had intrinsic worth and intrinsic rights that weren't predicated on dominance. That's very different than a worldview based on conflict and dominance, where the fundamental motivation is not to be curious and explore the beauty in the world, but to follow the rules, first and foremost, or you'll be hurt and terrorized. When my parents told me I did something wrong, I asked for an explanation why, and they gave it to me so I'd learn why, to take ownership of the fact that I had hurt someone in some way, and to see for myself why it was wrong by applying the same compassion towards others that I regularly saw my parents give to me. Spanking and related physical punishments teach a child that life is fundamentally about dominance hierarchies, where the powerful arbitrarily get their way and the weak are painfully humiliated; it reminds kids that they're helpless against the limitless power of their parents, and that ultimately brute force trumps logic. That way of thinking is defeating and nihilistic, and can unconsciously damage a person long into adulthood.
48
@Samuel Russell
While I agree to some degree that spanking shows kids the parent's power, I disagree that this is injurious in an of itself. The world if full of situations where bosses have arbitrary power and can be merciless, and sometimes one is helpless. To have faced situations like this and conquered it as a kid gives more energy to a human to remove the yoke that binds as an adult, having overcome punishment as a child with changes in behavior can be a powerful tool to use as an adult.
2
@MKF The one thing that helps kids become resilient adults and deal with the arbitrariness of the real world is a loving, safe, trustworthy, non violent caregiver. The research on that is crystal clear.
4
@MKF
Even bosses cannot beat their employees. I believe you guys fought a civil war over an issue very much like this. Children are not property.
6
By the time it’s gotten so bad you need to “spank the kid or you have nowhere else to go”, you’ve gone a long way down the wrong path already. Personally, I couldn’t conceive a situation where spanking was the better solution. There are other more effective ways of helping your kids understand the mistake of poor behaviour, but they take thought, time, frustration, patience and repetition. To me that’s a price well worth paying for a better outcome.
16
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/18/opinion/punishment-or-child-abuse.html
Like many biblical literalists, lots of black believers are fond of quoting Scriptures to justify corporal punishment, particularly the verse in Proverbs 13:24 that says, “He who spares the rod hates his son, but he who loves him is careful to discipline him.” But in Hebrew, the word translated as “rod” is the same word used in Psalms 23:4, “thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me.” The shepherd’s rod was used to guide the sheep, not to beat them.
Many believers — including Mr. Peterson, a vocal Christian — have confused the correction of children’s behavior with corporal punishment. The word “discipline” comes from the Latin “discipuli,” which means student or disciple, suggesting a teacher-pupil relationship
19
I was told that “rod” was a misreading of “rood”, or book, from the King James Bible. As for corporal punishment, I suggest that its advocates imagine being beaten by an angry person three times their size, and most likely for an infringement they didn’t even know they committed. Spanking is a grotesque abuse of power, and adults get away with it only because the victims cannot defend themselves.
12
@david Just curious. What is a “black believer”? Is that a religious term with which I am unfamiliar?
I just quoted verbatim an excerpt from the NYTIMES.
Adrian Peterson is a black or African-AMerican football player who was accused of severely physically punishing his son.
Black believer" then is an African AMerican who believes something.
This Times article was in response to the question as to whether Peterson's physical punishment of his son was acceptable parental discipline or abuse.
Dr. Sege uses an interesting phrase: "right from wrong."
Having been spanked on rare occasion as a kid, I spanked my daughters a few times when they were younger (2-4) in an attempt to teach them "right" behavior from "wrong" behavior. It was readily apparent that it didn't work with training "good" behavior. Ethics can't be beaten into someone; it needs to be trained. So, my wife and I stopped.
But there were a few times when the spanking had an instant beneficial effect: it replaced the potential for serious pain with the immediacy of a lesser one. It is not "wrong" to pick up a knife and play with it. It is massively injurious to a 3 year old who can climb cabinets and get to the knife block, however. A quick spank, an explanation (for the fifth time), and a hug later, a my daughter stopped playing with knives until we trained her (she is now our sous chef at 8).
I understand the need for prevention on our parts as well, but children don't always play by our rules. They can pop the bubble, so to speak, despite our best attempts to protect them. What then?
So, perhaps the Association might reconsider their approach. Perhaps it would be better to bifurcate discipline into ethical or social discipline (go to bed on time, listen to adults) and discipline required to prevent future danger or injury from a young child (don't stick forks in outlets, don't wander away in the mall). A spank seems to be a tool - a rarely used one, but one that should stay in the toolbox.
7
My grandchildren go to to a “ forest school “ and were completely competent with knives from age 3. They were carefully taught what to do, how to be careful and they are. Three years on, not so much as a cut.
2
I will let others discuss spanking of children by their parents but i hope we can agree that spanking and paddling should NEVER be allowed in schools.
54
A correlation between bad behavior and spanking doesn't seem very compelling. It seems obvious that children who are more badly behaved are also going to be more likely to be spanked. Why would we assume the causation runs backwards? It seems more likely that bad behavior begets punishment than the other way around.
However, no one is going to do a study where they randomly assign some children to be spanked, so there will never be a definitive study showing causation, only correlation.
One thing we could look at is the trend over time. Prior to the 90s, virtually everyone spanked their kids as a form of punishment, even if only for the most serious and rare infractions. As a whole, are children today considered to be better or worse behaved, now that spanking is much less common? Are they considered to have better or worse mental health? From what I can tell, there have been no improvements in the behavior of children as a whole, and I believe studies show that their mental health has collectively become much worse. So I wouldn't be so sure that lax discipline is all it's cracked up to be.
9
@kryptogal: Ah, thank you for pointing out that correlation does not equal causation. I'm sure none of the authors of the cited research, or the physician-scientists at the American Academy of Pediatrics who endorsed it, would have ever thought of that, or attempted to address it in their research. Or maybe they did... and you didn't bother to find out by actually looking at the research before popping off about it.
4
@magic_hat
Still, while the authors attempted to control for different baseline characteristics of children, they cannot undo the effect cited by the reader above. One cannot tell if worse children get spanked more and would have been even worse helions had not they been spanked, or if spanking turned them bad. The scientists you mention, bringing their own biases to the question, may have chosen to accept the latter, not the former explanation.
2
Actually, anecdotally the biggest thugs at school were the ones who were physically disciplined by their parents. Like the most aggressive fighters are the people who have had the most fights, kids who are beaten take that anger and aggression to school with them. If violence is a solution your parents use, you use it more frequently.
6
As a licensed psychologist for many years who specializes in children's development, I agree with the statement by Alfred Adler--one of the founders of modern personality and therapy--that parents usually spank their child because they don't know what else to do. Repetitive episodes of spanking are ineffective and teach children that when one feels frustrated, then using physical force is appropriate. There is a huge amount of research that parenting with explanations and consistent rules is the best way to raise responsible children.
95
Having vowed before my children were born to never use corporal punishment, and having lived up to this for 18 years, I think that this article and the AAC approach is of limited sophistication. The education required to break this intergenerational pattern is not simple and will require real investment by society to shift things along faster.
28
I suppose it could depend on a number of things... in which instances in a spanking employed? And what is the actual method of spanking that is employed? And how are interactions between the parent and the child otherwise?... does the child clearly understand the connection between their behaviors and when they may be spanked?
I grew up in the 60s/70s and our dad would periodically 'go off' (he had a bad temper) and would sit the four of us down, list out all the things we did that were bad. Then he'd tell us to line up and pull down our pants, and one by one we had to wait our 'turns' for whacks with his belt. I remember in school, that I often had to sit with my weight concentrated on one side or the other, because one half of my butt/thighs had welts.
My mom never said a word, supposedly because she too was scared of my father. But regardless, her silence more or less informed us that we 'deserved' what we got.
The randomness of the spankings, the severity, the humiliation of pulling down our pants and having to stand in line, and the lack of any conversation surrounding it, or any kind of talk from our mother that it 'wasn't our faults'... I feel that it most definitely had a long-term emotional impact on me, and relationships as a whole.
198
@Lisa
My heart goes out to you that you were physically, emotionally and psychologically abused by your father and that your mother was so emotionally abused by him and so under his spell that she didn't get herself and you out of there. Women who are emotionally abused are often in no condition to protect their children. She was just as terrorized as you were.
@NYTimes, this is a rotten "example" of "a spanking." This isn't a spanking, this meets the legal definition of child abuse.
1) It left marks
2) It left marks days after
3) It was arbitrary, not for any specific infraction, or incident.
4) It used something other than the open hand, but rather a belt.
5) It was done without clothing in a humiliating manner as a group
6) It included emotional/psychological abuse as well
This is specifically NOT "a spanking." This is child abuse. It's a false equivalency. Shame on the NYT for highlighting an instance of child abuse and calling it "spanking.
You do not strengthen your case when you equate child abuse with spanking. One is not the other.
I'm not even in favor of spanking and **we can tell the difference.**
75
Sometimes you have to get the child's attention, and this may be the only way to do it:
The child who runs into the street.
The child who physically bullies or attacks a younger sibling or other younger child.
The "spank" should not cause pain. But the novelty of the blow should be sufficient to grab the child's attention and make it clear that certain behaviors, like those above, cannot be tolerated.
18
@Jonathan Katz I agree. I come from a non-spanking family and am in my sixties. My brother at age three ran out in the street, my mom scooped him up, gave him a swat on the bottom and burst into tears. He never ran out into the street again. I think she did it instinctively and it was for his protection, she wasn't venting any anger or frustration.
I raised two kids myself and found I actually couldn't physically spank them. I was frustrated one time and thought, I'm going to give him a swat, and when I tried to do that my hand would not do it! It was strange to have my body over ride the message from my mind. I think I come from several generations of non spankers, maybe that's why.
8
@Jonathan Katz
People who are very censorious about spanking ever have never had a more than usually oppositional child who endangers him or herself regularly and unpredictably.
I had 3 children. Only one ever needed a spanking and it was in situations where the consequences of gentle words of reproof going forward just continued not to restrain the child-running in the street, sprinting happily toward a strange dog, really hurting her brother when she was 3 and he was 2 and he needed 4 stitches over his eye, wriggling out of her carseat though they say it can't be done...
She is now a wonderful 36 year old woman with a 4 year old who is pretty ornery by nature. I keep assuring her : " This is nothing; you were even more of a handful". The day he wriggled out of his carseat though he got a side of the road spanking and a tearful explanation from her about " I might never see you again and you might never see me again if you don't stay in your carseat". He was able to tell me all about it with big eyes. She's an ICU/ER nurse and knows all about car wrecks and babies and straps him in tightly. But a strong, smart, determined child can get it undone. He needed that spanking.
6
@Jonathan Katz Please. Plenty of folks have raised kids without raising a hand. I for one. Punishments that work well: time outs or withholding of privileges. My 11 daughter is well behaved. Deep rooted issues may indicate a mental disorder. But, physical punishment is a bad solution.
6
Some religions, including some Christian sects, tell their followers that the Bible demands that we beat our children from time to time. "Spare the rod, spoil the child." However, according to Biblical scholars this is a misreading of the original Aramaic. The "rod" in question refers to leading by example. another instance of that word appears in the 23rd psalm -- "thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me."
10
@Kibi Why do Christian Sects never seem to quote or refer to Christ when discussing corporal punishment?
1
Like so many other things, it depends. I spanked my kids exactly once, and it changed their behavior and got the desired result. Now we can agree on constant hitting.
7
@Ryan,
Yeah we can agree on constant hitting. That it is bad. Like it was when you beat your kid exactly once. That doesn’t happen! Liar.
2
Why no comments, people? Spanking is flat-out wrong.
14
What a load of horse manure.
I’m a doctor, and father of two. I have never spanked either of my children. My wife and I have discussed it, and agreed it should only be used in the most extreme of situations- such as when the child put themselves or someone else in grave danger.
My father only spanked me twice- the second time was when I almost poked out my brother’s eye with a stick.
To this day I remember it and I am grateful for what he did. It showed me there are lines you cannot and will not cross.
Our country could use more of that, methinks.
65
@Samuel, it’s a stretch for me to have a lot of respect for a doctor who rejects science based on his own anecdote, which has a happy ending because it produced he himself. I prefer doctors who make decisions based on scientific evidence. The behavioral literature since Skinner has been clear that while punishment may interrupt a behavior, it also creates fear and aversion to the punisher. One can try other ways
43
@Samuel So you would have continued to poke your brother's eye out with a stick only for the grace of your father's spanking? Come on. And your last line is disturbing- we need more of spanking?
31
Eh, I don't know. As a four-year-old, I damaged part of my family's home's furnace - not fatally, not catastrophically - and my father delivered four firm, painful smacks to my butt. I cried for a few seconds, and then I understood my actions had consequences, and that was the end of that. I deserved it, I got it quickly and firmly, and I never forgot the lesson: "You aren't the only person in the world. There are others and your actions affect them, and you shouldn't do stuff that, while it pleases you, harms or inconveniences others."
Case closed. Worth more than all the time-outs or lectures in the world.
When it hurts, you don't do it again.
35
@CharlesFrankenberry: Nice try though. But kids learn by example.
5
@Positively "Nice try" on what, sir? Your response makes no sense. But no harm done. I am a peaceful man with a small behind and I don't want any more spanks!
2
Unfortunately, few parents who spank their children or consider doing so will pay any heed to the recommendations or evidence supporting them. It says in the Bible “spare the rod and spoil the child,” and that’s the beginning and the end of it for those folks. In a much as they say anything, they’ll say that some “academy of pediatrics” sounds like a group of coastal elitist doctors.
3
@CA Meyer
It says in the bible that you should stay in a tent away from others for all the days you are menstruating.The bible says you cannot braid your hair, or wear pearls. The bible says all kinds of things that I know you don't follow because they are archaic, out of date, and not relevant to the times. Quoting the bible is simplistic nonsense coming from someone who obviously doesn't follow it literally in other areas of life. You just want an excuse to hurt little people.
1
Do NOT spank your children, for any reason. Both my parents spanked me the hardest of their three children, and it did lasting damage to the point where I refused to have my own children. My father ultimately sought to teach by example and encouraged me (the eldest) to pursue a career, which then became the example for my younger sister and brother, neither of whom were spanked. My mother, on the other hand, grew up in a family where she experienced all manners of abuse, including sexual, and was not prepared at all to be a mother. Consequently, I was the one she ridiculed, excoriated and demoralized - from adolescence until my early 30s when the only redemption was that I married someone she approved of. Late in her life, besieged by dementia, she fell into the same pattern of fighting with me, despite the fact that I have been successful and fulfilled in every area of my life. Her fights became so divisive that she created an us-vs.-them situation regarding her elder care. As a result, I am now estranged from both my sister and my brother. If you cannot love, nurture and champion your children, do not have children.
117
@TurandotNeverSleeps
The Scapegoat and Golden Child is a terrible paradigm for a family and often promotes dissension among the children... and it's not really your siblings fault at all. It's also noted that Cluster B disorders are highly heritable... and VERY linked to dementia in later life.
Just sayin'.
5
I can count on one hand the number of times I was spanked as a child. A spanking came only after first being told not to do something, then second being told not to do it or else, and only then on the third time getting a spanking. They were never given in anger or in the heat of the moment. And afterwards a discussion on why I got spanked.
The occasional spanking did wonders for reinforcing the rules of polite society for me. (Except for keeping my home clean...Sorry, mom, that just never sank in.)
If we had children, we would certainly imitate that policy. It stood me in good stead.
12
@Alex
“They were never given in anger or the heat of the moment”
So you were beaten when everyone had calmed down, that’s bordering on sadism.
1
I think that we need a clear definition of spanking. If a two year old tries to insert an object into an outlet, slapping away their hand and saying "No" is useful because it would be hard to explain to the child why what they were doing was dangerous.
Hitting a child just because we are angry or exasperated, is not useful.
If a child hits another, one can swat them on the bottom and tell them "that is how it feels".
On a personal level, I can say that verbal tirades by my mother were much more harmful to me than any spanking.
18
I was spanked occasionally as a child, and except for once, remember the spanking but not what it was for. The time I remember what it was for, I felt very guilty, because I had done something that hurt my mother. I really needed to be consoled.
2
Yes, spanked often. Old World authoritarianism ran the house. Does that in itself say something? wait till Dad came home, using a hand of a male adult on a 5 year old and sometimes with his belt. I still remember the horror of seeing him start to remove his belt after Mom filled him in on my misdeeds. And I turned out okay, right? Hmmm, perhaps I need to reconsider how I turned out.
20
This is one of the most stupid things I've ever heard. Spanking is absolutely necessary. I also think variety is a good strategy. The punishment should be equivalent to the "crime" for a child to be brought up as a productive and healthy member of society. Don't believe this article. There's been far too much research to show the benefits of corporal punishment. Don't confuse corporal punishment with abuse. Those are two very different things. Use your common sense. If you don't have any, then perhaps stay away from having kids.
4
@Austin: "There's been far too much research to show the benefits of corporal punishment."
Citations, please. Hope you don't or haven't tried to raise productive, compassionate kids.
6
Please "Austin" from Virgina, regale us with your citations of these so-called studies that prove the benefit of corporal punishment (from legitimate psychological or scientific sources of course and not some snippet from one of Bill O'Reilly's stupid blovuations). Let me just go ahead and predict that you'll be too lazy or simply can't produce any of these studies but will instead lean on some lame common sense analogy, like "my parents used it and I'm OK".
9
I only remember getting spanked once and it was because I did something dangerous that half scared my mother out of her wits. And I still remember to never, ever do that thing again.
If we can have only one rule, I agree that children should never be spanked. However, in the hands of loving parents with good judgment and tempers under their own control, I believe selective use of spanking can be a humane and effective tool, especially with certain children.
12
@Madeline Conant
Just substitute the word assault for spank and it really changes the picture.
1
@Alison Cartwright
Why not call it murder? That's even more dramatic.
Growing up in the 50s-60s my father spanked me on those few occasions when I deserved it. Even then, it was obvious to me that it pained him to do it but it was done to impart an important lesson to me. I learned to accept responsibility for my misbehavior, and later loved him even more for imparting this valuable lesson early in my life.
4
Spanking by parents also teaches children that it's normal for the people who (probably do) love them the most in life to occasionally hurt and demean them physically. I wonder sometimes if this feeds into women, in particular, remaining in abusive relationships with men who tell them "I'm only doing this because I love you, because I care."
Adults disappoint and anger each other all the time but slapping or shoving a peer, even if there's no lasting physical harm, is clearly defined as assault/battery.
81
Spend some time in the average classroom to see what this philosophy has produced. Too many children/teens/whatever have not respect for themselves or anyone around them. Teachers deal every day with backtalk, outright refusals to do what they are told, and all to often violence in the classroom. The seat of discipline, properly used, worked until all of the psycho-babel destroyed parenting.
8
@Rick Papin, one of the saddest confusions is thinking that fear = respect. Think of the people in your life that scared you because of real or threatened violence. You might avoid or behave as they wish, but respect them? I doubt it.
3
@Rick Papin: My dad often told his own story of corporal punishment in school. He went to a rural, one-room schoolhouse, and he was one of the younger children, maybe first grade or so. The teacher started beating another small child, and then the boy's big brother jumped up from the back row, slammed the teacher head first against the blackboard, and said loudly as he walked back to his seat, "Don't you ever touch my little brother again."
Corporal punishment only teaches folks that the strongest person has the most to say.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with spanking if done properly however,
It should be one of the last resorts so let the punishment fit the crime, If parents don't teach their children this you can bet the law will later on in life.
@MIKE
"There is absolutely nothing wrong with spanking if done properly.."
Its almost as if you didn't read the article at all.
1
@MIKE
Pray tell, how does one spank properly? There is an etiquette of spanking? the only crime that such a punishment would fit is if the child had first beaten the parent and even then, the punishment validates beating. There really is no moral or ethical justification for assault.
1
Depriving my child of something he/she liked to do was more effective than spanking, once he was 5 years old. I must admit to spanking my son on very rare occasions before then. If I had to do it over, I would be more imaginative. Having said that, my mother used a fly swatter on my brother and I when we were 12 for smoking. I did not smoke again until 15!
3
The only thing I needed to be told was "wait until I tell your father." My father never touched me-- ever--but fear of having disappointed him was enough.
9
@inner city girl
What a sad, sad thing. You grew up fearing your father.
Spanking is too violent, but circumcision is recommended. The AAP has some bizarre ideas.
13
I have always thought circumcision is a direct cause in Male aggression and violence.
a subject never talked about.
Circumcision is not recommended. You have that one wrong too.
5
I am sick of hearing people justify hitting children by saying they were exhausted, frustrated, out of patience, needing to get their attention, etc. So what? We feel all of those things when dealing with other adults, too, but we somehow resist hitting them (or expect to go to jail if we do hit them). And dependent old people can also test our patience and drive us crazy, but we have laws against hitting them, regardless of how frustrated we may be. In our perverse culture, adults are only allowed to assault those who are too young to adequately defend themselves. Kids are truly at the mercy of the adult caring for them. How sad and scary. If you really believe that hitting kids is an effective way to teach them good behavior, why not apply the same "logic" to adults? Is that a society you want to live in?
363
A lot of this sounds like abuse, spanking and abuse are two different things. I was spanked and turned out better than fine. The awful things being discussed here are abuse. There should in my opinion be a healthy fear of your parents. I work at an elementary school and see both ends of this spectrum.
5
@J I think what many of these cautionary tales tales (mine included) best communicate is that often times the line between spanking and abuse is very blurry for parents. Remember that its basically determined by whomever is handing out the spanking to begin with, and not everyone is going to agree on limits. My father certainly never considered himself to be abusing me when he disciplined me, but when he ended up in front of the court for his methods it almost landed him in serious trouble. He just considered himself a tough father, getting his son ready for the world.
Meanwhile, I was learning to lie to him, avoid him during his bad moods, hide things from him and overall resent his presence in our home. Just like the others sharing in the comments, its taken me real work to adjust my world view now that I know better, and I'm almost 30.
With no one universal method for physical discipline, what you end up with are people who's parents managed to use physical discipline in ways that left no lasting effects...and those that didn't.
The only things spankings ever taught me was not to get caught. I plan to encourage communication with my children. I wouldn't ever want them to be afraid of just being around me like I was with my old man.
11
@J If you saw someone beating their dog the way you were beaten, would you nod your head and smile or would you call the police?
6
My wife and I don't spank (I was spanked growing up, she wasn't.) However I do occasionally yell at them, and when they do not behave or do what they are suppose to do I resort to physically removing them from a situation. I am 6' and a fit 215lbs. My wife is 5'2" and 115lbs. Not surprisingly my wife has a much harder time physically controlling our kids. Our oldest, almost 5, is already over half as tall and almost half her weight. Far more often that I should, I hear my wife pleading with the two kids to do something while they laugh and run around like it is game instead of following her direction. Then when I get in the room and scold them, they finally do what they are told. They both clearly love their Mom and honestly probably show her more affection then they do show to me, but they also don't respect her authority. Where as I can get them to behave and follow directions much more easily. As a practical matter it means that I can take both of the kids to the park, on short hike, or to a restaurant without her while she can not do the same without me. I assume they will get better honoring their mother's directions as they get older...but I am not entirely convinced. I guess my point is that even though I don't spank them, I think they follow what I say and not her because they know their will be physical consequence (being physically removed and separated from whatever they were doing) if they don't.
4
@Still Waiting for a NBA Title I suggest you watch old episodes of Little People Big World sometime. The mom on there was 1/4 the size of her non-Little person teenage son. But he cowered when she disciplined him verbally. She might touch his arm or his hands to get him to look at her. A parent can assert authority without physical dominance.
2
no 4 year old should weigh almost 60 pounds. that's abusive.
@me
I appreciate your concern, but you are making assumptions without knowing all the details. He weights just over 50 and he has next to no fat. He is just tall and oddly muscular for his age. It isn't like he works out or anything. My Dad is 6'7", probably more like 6'6" now that he is pushing 70. My guess is that he will end up taller than me.
2
Discipline is hard and complicated and confusing and time-consuming. You have to be constantly firm about the rules, creative in enforcing them, and patient enough to see through any punishments you inflict. You have to be clear and appropriate enough that "because I said so" is never the explanation.
Spanking, on the other hand, seems pretty easy in the short term: Kid makes you mad, smack 'em, they may cry for a while but do as you say because they're scared of you. But after a while, the kid will be larger than the parent. And what the kid learned from you is that if you're bigger than someone else, and are mad at them, smack 'em.
Add to the mix that a lot of people decided that "discipline" meant "smack 'em", and thinking fear is the same thing as respect.
74
I remember as a child up to age 10 I was beaten, sometimes with a belt. My father even fashioned a leather spanking device with thongs that came off of it. I was an only child, so these beatings were witnessed by no third party.
One day, when my father was out, I committed some sort of alleged misdeed and my mother got the spanking device and started hitting me. I was about 10 at the time. I grabbed it out of her hand, and starting hitting her back with it, even chasing her for a while around the apartment, and then I stopped. I took it outside and threw it in a garbage can.
I thought I was going to have the daylights beaten out of me when my father got home. Instead, my mother never said a word, and from that day forward, beatings stopped.
But I never had warm feelings toward my mother for the rest of her life.
178
@RM thank you just reading your comment makes me realize that my antipathy towards my mom is not wrong or even rare. thank you.
33
I am not so sure it is an absolute. After being carefully told never to play in the street, the second time a five year old disobeys, it is important that something happens to get their full attention.
17
@W.A. Spitzer
The desire to avoid the drudgery and inconvenience of getting the child's attention by dramatically restricting his or her movements to a small room or space while repeatedly explaining cause and effect, action and reaction, etc. is the way to go.
This is the real 'cost' to adults of parenting, and is rarely paid or even acknowledged. Its just so much easier (read quicker) to spank.
14
@W.A. Spitzer A five year old needs to be constantly watched. It's the parents' responsibility that the child should be watched.
15
@dandnat "A five year old needs to be constantly watched." Really? When i was five i walked by myself to kindergarten. So did many others.
7
"Those exposed to harsh punishment also had a lower performance I.Q. than that of a control group."
Lets be careful on how to interpret that. It is possible that low I.Q. parents are more likely to use harsh punishment and the genetic components of I.Q are well documented. So the kids could have low I.Q because they are born to low I.Q. parents - not because they have been subjected to harsh punishment.
71
"So the kids could have low I.Q because they are born to low I.Q. parents"
Are you serious? Do you believe in 19th-century racist physiognomy, too?
4
@Ivan - The key phrase here is *than that of a control group* -- that means that other variables in the study related to the parents/kids (age, income, race, education level, etc., which are variables that can proximate IQ of the parents) are, in theory, normalized out. That leaves the independent variable that's being studied as the *cause, not correlation* of any statistically significant differences between the control and test group (in this case, children who were spanked). Please do some research into how scientific test design works.
10
The key word is "performance"--an event subject to the forces of time, pressure, attitude, psychic health. Performance anxiety typically impacts performance adversely. Who feels greater anxiety than a beaten child?
5
I hated spankings as a child. They were mostly done out of frustration and anger. They were dreaded and humiliating; on par for our parents shame based discipline.
Our children were spanked rarely and only for continuing and unrepentant disrespect of others or privileges. They do not spank their children, finding time-outs and loss of limited screen time very effective.
Yes, I remember feeling quite angry and frustrated at times, but not physically lashing out. Though, I also remember some hard hugs—thinking that while I was exerting control, my arms and body contact were a physical reminder of my love and bond with my child.
Raising children is the absolute hardest work you ever do. Engendering unconditional love, encouraging character and moral values—a two-way street. Each child gives and receives through a limited perspective. No guarantees.
15
I see comments about adults who were spanked once or three times and think it is not so bad. The problem is that spanking (or hitting, because that is what spanking is) a child "every once in a while" alienates the child. I had parents who believed in corporal punishment, i.e., hitting me, and I never forgot and don't have particularly good feelings about my parents. When I left home, I left and never really communicated in any meaningful way with them after that. I tried talking to them a couple of times about it but it didn't change their mind. Remember this the next time you hit your child.
145
As a child my father only spanked me one time when at age 7 I was very disrespectful of my mother. As a father myself I parented our children during the late 1980s and 1990s when reasoning, affection, time outs and taking away use of prized possessions for a time were the favored forms of discipline and found those worked better both for our children and us as parents. Nevertheless just as my gross misbehavior was best addressed quickly and decisively by my dad, I think there are times and personalities where spanking may still be appropriate.
19
My parents favorite words were that I needed a good beating so I'd behave myself. Until I was about 18 or so I thought that people always hit their kids with belts, slapped them, pulled their hair, and screamed at them for hours at a time and did the same thing to other adults. I didn't want to grow up and continue living if that was what living involved.
This is what my parents hitting me and yelling at me taught me. It was perfectly fine for the family doctor to molest me. It was okay for other people in my life to take advantage of me. My decision, when I was nearly 11, not to let anyone love me or care about me, was the right one because if they didn't, I wouldn't get hurt. Being lonely was and still is better than letting others hurt me. I'm nearly 60 and that decision has stayed with me because it kept me safe.
231
@hen3ry
This was my experience also although I am now in my 70's. I was beaten as a very sensitive child by my mother who blamed me for a difficult, premature birth and who sent me to school a year early as I was apparently a burden to her. When I told my father (who worked overseas) about the beatings, I was not believed and was spanked. I was shy and never fit in socially, and had no trust in anyone to report molestation by a relative. Although I am now happier than I have ever been, I regret years of loneliness be it was the only way I could not be rejected.
15
The author is assuming the parents are anything more than adult children. I don't exactly agree with Fitzhugh Dodson but he did identify something correctly. Spanking is more about the parent than the child. We are not perfect. We do not continually maintain self-disciplined control. We are all mortals. Even with our best intents, adults often fail.
The thing to remember however is a parent's moment will act as a child's eon. A small gesture, whether spanking or something else, will have a disproportionate effect on the developing mind. What appears to the parent as a ripple is a tsunami to the child. Children simply lack the behavioral reference points necessary to decode the interactions. Consider every slap on the backside as a developmental earthquake.
Geology happens but you need to understand there's a gap involved. The parent's own mind fills most of the gap.
48
@Andy "a parent's moment will act as a child's eon". What a profound statement, and one that I will try to remember in moments of frustration with my children. Thank you!
20
I was spanked, harshly with a stick on a few occasions, as a child. My mom apologized later as an adult. The way I see it she would get overwhelmed at times, with housework and monthly hormones. She didn't have a tool to recognize that this was driving her behavior, no matter how 'bad' I was.
Sometimes emotions and how we deal with them should be more black or white and right or wrong, than flexible and gray. Emotions follow a logic. Choose to grow, and change for the better.
Yet some people think they are right no matter what, and this is where many women especially seem to get in trouble, following external choices, and denying others, rather than looking within.
7
There is a huge difference between spanking and beating.
I was spanked three times as a child and remember each and every one.
Once for stealing a candy bar from the dime store.
Once for running over a neighbor girl with my tricycle.
And once for telling my dad to "shut up" when I was 7 or 8.
I never stole again, I learned to respect others, and I never talked back to my parents again. Ever.
I love my parents and thank them for teaching me right from wrong and how to respect others.
Seems to me some of todays young people could use a good spanking or at least more instruction in those areas of life.
58
@tfair There's a difference between spanking and beating, but the research shows that it's mostly a matter of degree. Spanking produces pain and negative emotions, both of which interfere with learning. Further, when parents spank when angry (as is typical) it models physical aggression against those who anger us (even family). Not surprisingly, study after study finds that spanking leads to worse behavior in the future compared to other forms of discipline.
As someone who, like you, was also only spanked a handful of times, neither of us are really exemplars of the benefits of spanking. You might consider that it was the other forms of discipline that your parents were using the other 99.9% of the time that led you to be honest and respectful.
60
@tfair
"I love my parents and thank them for teaching me right from wrong and how to respect others."
"...young people could use a good spanking ..."
Sorry, but it takes more than 3 individual events, incidents, interactions, etc. to properly demonstrate and instill the ideals of right vs wrong in a child. Ditto, respect for others and their property. It seems almost comical that you would ascribe those lessons-learned to physical spankings.
Undoubtedly, it due to the truly innumerable other (read non-spanking) events, incidents, interactions, lessons, etc. provided by your parents throughout your road to maturity.
There is ALWAYS an alternative, better way to educate and build character in children.
23
@tfair if only there was SOME other way of teaching another person without being physically aggressive with them.
6
Hard to believe we still allow this disgusting spare the rod, spoil the child practice, so popular with the World War II generation. The effects are very similar to sexual abuse. It's also cowardly--and seems to be a way of working off parental anger, on a much smaller and wholly dependent human being. We do not treat dogs this way.
201
@FL Saxon I suggest you visit a local animal shelter or Humane Society before you make a decision on how some human beings treat dogs. But don't look unless you want to cry or just lose all faith in the human race.
19
@FL Saxon Shall I send you recent animal abuse info? But don’t want to get off topic.
9
@CharlesFrankenberry I'm pretty sure the point is that all decent humans think people who abuse animals are horrible people who deserve to have their animals taken away from them.
10
Not to condone corporal punishment, but growing up my dad spanked me once and I never forgot it. My dad was always quick to anger, but not to spanking, however one day I took a shovel to a butterfly in our backyard. I don't know why I did it, perhaps a feeling of power came over me. I killed the butterfly with the shovel and my dad happened to see it. He was outraged and rightfully so. He had never spanked me before and it really made me ponder of why this butterfly was so important to him. To this day I try to safely usher out insects when they are in the house. So I know today it is wrong to use corporal punishment, but in this instance it worked for me. I am sure thousands have suffered at the hands of corporal punishment which becomes abuse, but also thousands more learned right from wrong, and perhaps thousands more learned nothing at all. I don't know what to make of it.
53
@Alex
It seems to me that, in light of so many comments about how spanking harmed people, it is not worth the risk, even if it doesn't always create permanent harm. But your story is one of the few where spanking was a truly exceptional event, and where it seems it did no harm at all.
Your father sounds like he was a wonderful guy.
6
Few people care about scientific studies anymore. After all, global warming isn't real either despite a vast consensus among scientists that it is real and is man made.
So people who spank are going to continue to spank despite all the empirical evidence that suggests it is harmful. But they should consider this. If physical force is the only tool you have to control your child, what are you going to do when your child gets too big to spank and too big for you to tell them what to do? What are you going to do when they're 18 and tired of being pushed around? What are you going to do when they decide to hit back?
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@Chris Well Said
6
@Chris Science isn't what you believe, or what scientists say. It is what you can prove! Unfortunately, there isn't a good experiment on climate change. Using the word science and applying it from climate change to other more scientific claims demeans science itself.
That being said, much of climate change is likely man made, but that isn't a scientific belief.