Republicans helped murder the Saudi journalist and are co-conspirators in the murder of chilren in Yemen. They are every last bit as guilty of these atrocities as the Saudi Crown Prince.
5
Well, the House Foreign Affairs, Armed Services and other committees might have something to say about all this - at least, after they've finished the first round of hearings in 18 months or so, featuring the three days Jared Kushner spends giving evidence under oath, his phone records and emails all having been subpoenaed.
I'd really like to know why Mike Pompeo was so adamant that he had not heard the audio of Khashoggi being murdered or seen the transcript (he couldn't even admit seeing a transcript, like he's an 8 year old who can't even look under the bed in case the monster is really there). We read that Gina Haspel heard the tape, so let's ask her all about that - she's an expert on torture, after all.
And all of Trump's tax returns and business records of all kinds will need to be subpoenaed to understand his determination to tie America's future in the Middle East to a murderer. Just how much money has MBS given Trump and Kushner and the rest of the Trumps over the last couple of years? Let's see the details of those hundreds of millions in sales that Trump said made him love the Saudis.
Hmmmm. Talk about a comeuppance. I am really looking forward to watching Trey Gowdy (if he's still in Congress) to see what questions he might want to ask anyone about Trump's use of an insecure cell phone - but maybe he'll cede his time to a relevant Democrat, since he probably won't have any questions anyway.
The second act is about to start. Where's my popcorn? This is fun!
3
Trump is doing the Armageddon Evangelicals and Netanyahu's and Kushner's bidding which also explains US support for the mass killer General Sisi. They all fear democracy in the Muslim world and the end to their looting of the natural resource wealth of the region. However, for the US the costs of 9/11 alone meant that all of these "profits" went literally up in smoke.
3
This is absolute madness. What is the World turning into? So we will all look the other way after this heinous crime just because we cannot stand another oil embargo? Does anyone truly believe that an oil embargo championed by Saudi Arabia will be successful in 21st Century? Or that the Kingdom, Israel, and the Trump Administration can bring Iran to her knees? Just look at Yemen and Syria, Afghanistan, and North Korea. It used to be that America was the only shining beacon of morality, decency, rule of law for the World. But the election of Donald Trump has brought into focus it's dark sides, and the glaring truth; a country is only as good as its leadership.
8
So, in the end, there won't be justice for Khashoggi; his death will be just another casualty in a long list of unjust incarcerations, assassinations, government over-reach.
Maybe as one comment posed, the International Criminal Court will investigate the murder of Khashoggi as a Crime against Humanity since the purpose of killing a journalist is preclude the rest of the world from gaining insight into the truth. Killing a journalist is always about more than killing an individual, it is an attack on the journalism.
7
The Trump administration support murder, desecration and total elimination of a person!?! What Saudi Arabia was a crime against humanity. They need to be held accountable as so too does the US administration.
2
One Month after the Murder of Mr. Khashoggi and Mt. Trump is quiet. I'll as far back as Truman, Which President would be quiet about an American Resident and a Washington Post columnist being Murdered? Mr. Trump just hopes this will all go away in a month or so. Carter boycotted the Olympics because of Soviet incursion into Afghanistan. This President just Poo-Poos it, Says it's about Jobs and Money. What a Joke.
2
We know in the Capitalist world money talks and the rest walks, and in the Evangelical world they are fine with all kinds of sinful behavior whether it is by the Presidential candidate or the President of the United States or is committed by Mohammed Bin Salman of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. I am appalled by the fact that Trump and Netanyahu sent two delegations just to appease the cold blooded killer who used the Consulate in Istanbul to brutally dismember and kill a human being.
These visits are being orchestrated for their own self-serving reasons. It is of course a shameful act by the politicians but I am embarrassed at the so called religious people to invoke Jesus's name to justify their visits to Saudia.
Trump is following up on what he said that Khashoggi’s killing should not derail his deal with the Saudis, it’s a lot of money and for him it is only about money. No question of morality, human rights, justice or any other value comes in between him and money. It is a shame we keep harping for the rest of the world about human values but when it comes to our leadership, it appears that the only thing that matters is money.
There is no stigma on the brutal killing of Khoshoggi, MBS may think about it as a feather in his cap along with the thousands of Yemini children that have been killed by his genocidal war in Yemen.
We can stop him from becoming an even bigger monster but our Political leadership is apparently being paid well by his PR firms to tow his line.
9
Supporting this Country (even before the Khashoggi assassination) will be a stain on America for centuries. Now, it's just completely pathetic. They are an absolute monarchy who don't let women dress themselves or go out in public without an escort. They openly funded the worst attack on American soil ever. They kill dissidents, slaughter their neighbors, and lie and steal from us every chance they get. On top of all of this, they are the center of a particular ideology that the entire western world is completely at odds with.
These are the kinds of "governments" who we should be subverting and attacking and sanctioning.
6
It is not up to us as outsiders to impose regime change on Saudi Arabia. But we should make him pay a price for the death of Khashoggi. And we should stop supporting his schemes to become the de facto ruler of the Arab world.
7
We, the voters, have the power to punish politicians who want to look the other way while our allies commit heinous murders. If you don't want the U.S. to pursue a needless, embarrassing partnership with Saudi in your name please vote on Tuesday.
6
"and under pressure from allies who support him[MBS] — notably the leaders of Israel and Egypt — the Trump administration has concluded that it cannot feasibly limit his power," So the tails wag the dog. MBS is part of the plan to pressure the Palestinians to make peace, the article says. No, it is part of the plan to make Palestinians acquiesce to their miserable existence. The plan is doomed to failure. Vote to make America moral again.
6
MBS “ Putin of the Middle East “ is responsible for the destruction of Yemen and the starvation of 22 million Yemeni and loss of a generation or two . Khashoggi ‘s death gave Pompeo and Mathis an opening to do something about it, they are not sincere in my opinion.
4
Please stop using his initials, it's branding to imply he is cool, modern, has broken with tradition. He is none of those things. I am amazed (well, not really given the 45th's penchant for adoring his mirror images) that there is a prospective U.S.-Saudi nuclear agreement—this Prince believes he can do anything he pleases with impunity. But hey! with the US (and others) supporting, indulging and excusing his excesses he can.I shudder to imagine what will please His Royal Highness next.
9
Those in power to order assassination are no better than a common murderer. I will never look at the Crown Prince as more than a murderer. This did not happen without his approval. Just as the assassination of Journalists in Russia does not happen without the approval, implied or direct, of Vladmir Putin.
12
There is One who sees, who never forgets, who stands for justice and is not afraid, Mr. Khashoggi.
3
We stood with the Shah of Iran for a long time, too. Have we forgotten how that turned out?
12
Given its shameless complicity in the cover-up, the Trump administration meets the definition of an accomplice after the fact in the Khashoggi murder, as our president has parroted one implausible Saudi line after another. The crown prince's puppeteering skills are matched only by those of Vladimir Putin.
17
Of course the white house stands by MBS. Jared Kushner provided MBS with the enemies list he has been using to kill anyone who opposes him. Source for this "shocking" information? MBS himself. https://theintercept.com/2018/03/21/jared-kushner-saudi-crown-prince-mohammed-bin-salman/
5
I'm looking forward to ICC indictments against MbS for ordering the murder - and against Trump and Pompeo as accessories after the fact.
7
I am familiar with the Saudis, as I was a teacher in Saudi Arabia, between 1959 and 1962. I have family members who are Saudis, two sisters and a brother. I visited my Saudi family several times in past and still do. In the past I met with King Faisal in Granada Spain, when I was finishing my medical study in 1966, and toured with him Alhambra Palace. Since King Faisal was assassinated by his nephew, the Saudi Royal family have been corrupt, conspired with the US to invade Iraq and opposed the Arab spring contributing billions of dollars to Dictatorship such as Sisi of Egypt. When MBS came to be crown prince I opposed him as he was an ignorant with little experience, he got Saudi Arabia into a wasted war in Yemen and trillions of dollars’ worth of armament from Donald Trump. Even if he did not order the killing, he did order the arrest of Jamal Khashoggi to be brought by force to Saudi Arabia to face humiliation and arrest, and when he resisted they killed him. His father King Salman, whom I as a medical doctor specialist diagnosed him with Alzheimer's disease who doesn't know what is going on. The most logical is for Erdogan of Turkey to travel to Saudi Arabia and meet with King Salman and show him the evidence. Strip MBS from power and King Salman to resign to his brother Ahmad who is waiting in the wing, this is my advice. MBS came to Seattle, WA State the Governor Jay Inslee did not meet with him nor the Mayor of Seattle with phony pretexts.
11
You know, I look at trump and I look at MBS and I see two well fed men striding through rooms and being bowed to and smiled at and all I see when I see their faces are a starved Yemeni daughter who is now dead, two still-alive sisters who were duct-taped together and thrown in the river to drown.... and they did.... and one dismembered man, his parts lugged off.
I don't know what you see when you see these two men, trump and Mister Bone-saw, but this is what it has come down to.
I have never seen such well-fed men be so weak, so useless.
The mask is off all of them.
Democracy now.
12
Of course! Why would anyone have expected a different outcome? The Western democracies have been enabling a repressive monarchy which continues to behead its citizens, stone women to death, finance terrorism, foment regional wars, and commit genocide in Yemen.
The measure of the USA’s craven obsequiousness towards the Saudis is the complete pass they enjoyed after the 9/11 attacks. By that measure, the murder and.dismembering of a Saudi expatriate is small potatoes.
7
Given the Khashoggi incident, am I the only one anxious for more information about the Saudi sisters duct-taped together in the Hudson? They applied for asylum and shortly thereafter their family was ordered back to the Kingdom.
11
@Expat Syd No, you are not alone. How the girls could be bound with duct tape and authorities think it is suicide, is baffling. After 911 and the Khashoggi murder I don't think the Saudis will expect any US administration to do anything impactful
5
Is anyone really surprised by this? Sickening as it is, this is who we are now. Murder, no big deal, just wait awhile and the disgust will disappear. People will forget and move on. The stain however will always be there, it can never be washed away. If the Democrats take power in the House of Representatives does anyone believe they will open an investigation. They will if we as a nation demand it. Hopefully we won't have forgotten by then.
8
In the past few years, MBS has managed to commit the following offences without facing any consequences:
1) Killing of Jamal Khashoggi
2) Coercing of Saad Hariri into resigning as Lebanese PM
3) Imprisonment of hundreds of Saudi government officials and royals
4) Illegal political blockade against Qatar, including closing all borders and airspace, and blocking food and medicine shipments
5) Airstrikes and attacks on Yemen, thus leading to a humanitarian crisis
And these are only the things we know about. When we see in the news that he is touting himself as the modern change Saudi Arabia has long needed (allowing women to drive, etc.), this is simply a political sleight of hand to distract us from the truth about his tyrannical ways. The man is an absolute power and has the whole world cowering. No country will turn their backs on Saudi because he has them all bent over the proverbial barrel.
9
"...dangerously aggressive, impulsive and destabilizing."
Maybe it's just me, but that does immediately bring someone else to mind.
11
Not only has Trump embraced this barbarian for his own money-making ventures, the Republicans support Trump in his efforts.
A fine mess they all are.
5
"Major figures in finance signaled that they, too, intended to look past the killing." And there it is, in a nutshell. The root of all evil is indeed greed and money. Always follow the money. Not only the United States but other democracies care not one whit about the atrocious death of Mr. Khashoggi. He does not count in the "big scheme of things." He is but a means to do a little "milking," just enough to appear hypocritically righteous, but not enough to interfere with self-serving agendas, most especially power, control, and again, greed.
The real disgraceful irony of the above theater, is that for two years we have heard nothing but vitriol against Muslims in general from Trump and his Islamophobic followers. This, while Saudi Arabia, one of our closest of Middle Eastern allies, espouses and lives by among the most suppressive and oppressive of Islamic sects, Wahhabism. That's this president, this administration. They are consumed by their own amorality, their total lack of ethics, as they embrace a tyrannical, murderous dictator. Would President Obama have done the same or even Secretary Clinton? We all know the answer.
8
I find myself wondering how Jared will continue to orchestrate his master-plan for the Middle East from his jail cell while awaiting trial next year.
It is obviously Jared Kushner, above anyone else in the U.S., who is propping up this vicious pyschopath (I mean MSB, not Trump) but because a lot of reporting out there suggests that Kushner is a target of the Mueller investigation and is probably going to jail, I can't see that he will be a viable player for too much longer. When he is out of the picture, hopefully adequate steps can be taken to address this horrible crime, and of course the crimes against the people of Yemen.
8
It is easy to blame Trump for the continued support of MBS and Saudi Arabia generally, but what would other administrations do? It seems to me that the foreign policy of the U.S. in the Middle East is quite conflicted bordering on irrational and it has been that way for a long time. The U.S. prides itself on its leadership role in the world but it isn't by example but by force as it pursues its apparent self-interest. So from that point-of-view there is no contradiction in the current decision to "forget" Kashoggi. Others won't forget though.
3
I hope to see the day when Saudi Arabia is destroyed and ravaged the same way they are now destroying Yemen. All their assets frozen, in France, in the US and elsewhere. Their homes in France and the US taken away from them by force.
3
Why do we always seem to glom onto murders and despots? If Saudi Arabia won’t send the alleged killers to Turkey for trial we should cut all economic ties. I hate to say it but even Iran protected the embassy hostages. Is Iran more moral than Saudi Arabia? Are we once again backing the wrong horse.
4
No surprise here. Don Trump and the Crown Prince are the same people who are sold out to blind power.
6
This has been a tragedy and the administration has held a blind eye to it, as to protect Saudi Arabia and monetary interest with it I.e. Billion dollar defense contracts.
The Yemeni people have suffered. Kids starving is a horrible thing anywhere and action should be taken to protect them. This photo shows that.
7
What's the worst thing if MBS loses power, Trump and Kushner will lose private deals???
5
In the end of this temporary saga, women in Saudi Arabia will continue to be 5th class citizens, internal dissenters will get even more of the "Khashoggi Treatment" being well away from prying foreign eyes, external dissenters will be lured back to the Kingdom and never heard from again, the Dark Prince will get even darker and more totalitarian but wealthier, and the Fake President accompanied by Javanka will be gloriously treated once again to all the earthly delights that the D.P. can offer them. Order, regularity, and balance restored.
5
And what exactly are we getting for supporting this evil figure?
Are we just sowing the seeds of more Saudi radicals seeking to hurt us for supporting the wrong side?
3
Khashoggi was brutally murdered in a premeditated plan of an authoritarian ruler.
This pretty much happens every day by an authoritarian regime somewhere in the world, including Cuba, Iran, Venezuela, China, Russia, North Korea, Egypt, and maybe a hundred other countries. (Minus the whole bone saw thing. Maybe.)
The U.S. government doesn’t care, if the regime is needed to pursue U.S. interests. Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush 2.0, Obama, and now Trump all dealt/deal with such regimes. In the case of Khashoggi, at least Trump might extract an end to the war in Yemen.
The world is filled with very bad leaders who are important to the U.S. in one way or another. The U.S., like every other country, must deal with the world as it is, not as principled, high minded people wish it were.
Moreover, most people outside of Turkey and Saudi Arabia are very quickly forgetting about Khashoggi. Within a handful of weeks, the Grinch Who Stole Christmas and Frosty The Snowman will be much higher on Americans’ priority list. That’s just how it works in the real world.
4
"Stand by him" believing the charges will blow over is different from "believing him innocent."
That doesn't mean it will go away. Some people are still outraged at such a blatant murder of a journalist. The King standing by the Crown Prince could mean the King himself was aware of, maybe even acquiesced, and so having blame swirl around his son while protecting him protects himself most of all.
Of course Jared Kushner was recently bailed out of a potential financial disaster by the Crown Prince. What's a little real life slasher film among wealthy and generous friends?
Always follow the money. It's less about upsetting the foreign relations apple cart and more about protecting all that Saudi money flowing into America. This country for too long has overlooked the repressive treatment of women because of it but murder is still murder.
8
I could have saved The NY Times quite a bit of time, money and frustration since news of this case broke out. No, MBS will neither step down nor be removed. And for those who think that only the Trump administration is kowtowing to the Saudis I have some really old news: Every US administration since FDR, both the D’s and the R’s have done so.
6
Let’s be clear, for the love of money, America’s leaders have sold their souls to the devil . Make every excuse you want there is no justification for letting this brutal murder go: because we need their oil, NO, because we love having America’s name on as many weapons as possible to kill defendless women and children.
Truly the world leaders have a price to pay when they make the decision that money is more important than human life. Just put America up there with country that does not protect, it goes along with human right abuse. Why do you think trump dropped out of the U.N. humans rights council?And of course there is the matter of taking children away from their parents and sending Americans soldiers to stop families for applying for help
Trump solves problems by doing away with it or people, wait! That is what Saudis do.
1
"If anything, the killing of Mr. Khashoggi has only strengthened the crown prince’s capacity to intimidate others inside the kingdom, even in his own family, royals and other Saudis said."
The crown prince will remain in power.
He will remain in power irrespective of whoever is in the White House or whatever public views other world leaders might have.
He will be removed only if he annoys his father and killing Houthis and journalists and even getting caught is not enough to cause King Salman to change his mind.
Of course he would also be removed if there is a revolution in Saudi Arabia, apparently not something that will happen in the near future, as long as Saudi Arabia makes money and most the killing is outside of its borders or of dissident journalists.
5
When an inexperienced ruler can not tolerate criticism or even views that do not accord with his own, he will be unable to benefit from the wise advice of others.
If in addition to this intolerance there is a deadly mix of hubris, impulsiveness and inexperience, it does not bode well for the future.
So far the major decisions of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman have been all been disasters. There is nothing to indicate that those made in the near future will be any different.
If you partner a man like this with Jared Kushner and allow them to dream up hairbrained schemes with Netanyahu, then one ought not to be surprised when everything goes horribly wrong. And this is a major part of the White House's Middle East policy!
6
"Stigma" is quite the euphemism for criminal conspirator to the crime of murder. Trump and his son-in-law can live with their favorite Sheik, who has a "stigma" . After all, it is something Trump,would tell a reporter, "sure, I,have some stigmas, so do you ; nobody's perfect."
MBS will beat this rap, and is certainly getting advise from our President who excels in that skill.
Of course, MBS has one up on Trump. Trump's consigliere Cohen may be ratting him out. This cant't happen to MBS: headless co-conspirators can't talk, and MBS Is the swordsman's boss.
.
3
We have a choice. Saudi oil and intelligence or watching Yemeni children starve to death.
1
It's horribly fitting that this Saudi US-allegiance article runs right above the photo of the emaciated 7 year-old girl who just died of Saudi-induced starvation in North Yemen.
6
He starved the little girl Amal to death.
This Saudi prince with his flamboyant clothes and money.
Remember that he starved that little girl to death.
Never forget.
7
This is disgusting. Business as usual from our corrupt leaders and CEOs. Khashoggi ‘s blood is on all of their hands for letting this go.
1
There are two Saudi girls found in Hudson River in Virginia. Let’s talk about it.
4
There are still more cards to be played in the case of the murder and dismemberment of Jamal Khashoggi.
Erdogan needs to decide to release little bits of that audio tape on social media.
Khashoggi's sons need to be interviewed (on video) about their father's service to his country, his gentle nature, etc, if they can bear it. They should not be asked about who ordered the killing, but they should rebut the ridiculous character assassination, and show their anguish.
The US has been waiting for the Saudis to act. And as this article makes clear, the Saudis are actually waiting for the US to act.
The US--that includes the US Congress, businesses, and CEOs.
42
It's coming down to one decision. Do we advocate for ethical international conduct or do we continue with a major weapons sale to a theocracy that has given us many conflicting accounts of their crime(s) and may well be our enemy in the future?
50
Trump in the US; Netanyahu in Israel; MBS in Saudi Arabia - what lovely allies; only from the point of view it seems like you would not want any of them as enemies. I'm already missing Merkel.
114
The Saudi kingdom (meaning the Crown Prince) branded the Muslim Brotherhood a terrorist organization and outlawed it when the group advocated a call for elections after the Arab Spring revolts. This is akin to what we used to call "backwards day" in our public schools when the students wore their clothes inside out or "backwards": imagine "branding" a group a "terrorist organization" because they advocate free 'elections'? What has unfolded before our eyes is truly abysmal.
2
America has been backing Saudi Arabia since ages. American support to MBS is no surprise in spite of what has happened recently but Saudi Arabia has caused plenty of problems not only in the Muslim countries but also in the non Muslim countries with gay abandon.
America attacks everywhere left, right and centre especially in the Muslim countries like Iraq and Afghanistan. However keeps quiet when it comes to Saudi Arabia for the best reasons known to it.
That was utterly predictable (and in fact predicted by myself in several comments to earlier NYT pieces claiming some kind of "leverage" US allegedly had over SA). And it is not necessarily a bad thing. It may sound cynical, but there are far more important things in this world that a life of one Saudi dissident. US-Saudi relations is one of those things. Mr. Khashoggi did not deserve to find such unjust and cruel end. That was totally appalling and unnecessary. But a total break in US-Saudi relations, suggested by some, will not bring him back, but will definitely cause much suffering to thousands of innocent people who do not deserve that either. The same goes for the attempted killing of Mr.Skripal in UK. As regrettable as it was, it was not worth starting a whole new Cold War over. But of course, we know that in that case it was just a convenient pretext. Since the difference in handling the two cases.
Trump will always put money before ethical and moral issues. Sadly that is the image the world see of the US and unless you dig deeper by going online yourself and reading newspapers from all over the US yourself and getting a more moderate view you know like all democracies there will be many who disagree. I do notice the looks on the faces of many people in the background at Trump rallies the ones who are meant to shout approval and applaud on cue and they are clearly uncomfortable with some of the rants.
The US govt will rue the day that they did not make it clear to the Saudi government that MBS needs to go. For us to put our medium-term energy security in the hands of this guy is asking for trouble in the future.
The problem is trump will chase a nickel and be unable to consider the longer term consequences. He is likely chasing that nickel for his own company, meaning the consequences to the US are of no importance to him.
3
President Trump needs to send a message to Riyadh that the U.S. will pursue its national interests and global responsibilities. U.S. national interests include bringing the capacity of Europe to also bear on limiting destabilizing actions by Iran and its proxies in the region. The withdrawal from JCPOA and the imposition of sanctions that damage European and American commercial interests without the authorization of the Security Council or the consent of Congress makes cooperation with the EU and its member states on matters dealing with Iran impossible.
The U.S. should rejoin JCPOA and invite the EU as well as China, Russia and other members of the Security Council to address the security environment of the Middle East. The JCPOA can be an effective means to curtail Iran's nuclear ambitions. Other issues involving Iran require other means that would be multilateral rather than bilateral. The U.S. has no national security interest in stoking hostilities that could lead to war with Iran. It does have an interest in stability in Syria where Iran continues to be an actor.
The U.S. withdrew from JCPOA to build solidarity with Saudi Arabia. If solidarity with Saudi Arabia weakens the capacity to address the persistent problems in the region the U.S. needs to review other options, most certainly not to create barriers towards cooperation with Europe including the UK.
3
With common lust for oil and weapons Trump and the Saudis could be natural partners in crimes against humanity too while supporting each other in need.
13
The Trump administration will not abandon the Crown Prince. We know that. We must abandon the Trumps.
26
@Pearl McElheran
Vote before this becomes the way America does business
1
Befriending the Prince is another poor choice Jared Kushner made which makes the United States look incredibly weak on the national stage. The Prince said he had Kushner in his pocket and it looks like he does.
32
Whether killing children by ensuring their starvation or ordering assassination with a hit squad equipped with a bone saw--it's all good for this administration.
21
"Crown Prince Is Seen as Retaining Power..."
Sure, what's an enemy of the people journalist worth compared to the TRILLIONS in arms contracts...?
Is that REALLY what you want to pass on to your kids and grandchildren...?
18
Can a writer win an award for just one article? Brilliantly written. It is nice to know the Times can still bring us the truth.
15
I would really like to understand how Trump, Kushner, Khashoggi, etc. suddenly demanded you attention on Saudi Arabia? Seriously?
2
It's all about the money.
The value of national Integrity vs a lucrative arms sale to a brutal country with dubious morals? (kaching $); environmental protections vs free access to mining interests? (kaching $); personal gain vs. the common weal? (kaching $).
We live in an age where money is everything. This leads to one place and one place alone.
12
Here is where conflict of interest intersects with Trump's presidency. Financially Trump is beholden to this demagogue it appears.
14
Re: Weapon Sale to SA
The only head of State that suspended arms shipment to SA
was the German Chancellor
Ms. Merkel
Not the UK
Not France
Not the US
Not Canada
Yes, Canada
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/21/justin-trudeau-defends-canada-arms-sales-to-saudi-arabia
14
@Talesofgenji
And why is she not going to run again?
1
@Talesofgenji
Many of us in Canada are urging our government to suspend shipment of the remaining vehicles in the contract.
A federal election will happen next year; and many of us will vote partially in accord with what is done (or not) about the Saudi arms deal.
2
Trump has no decent morals, no decent morals at all.
21
At their cores, the Crown Prince and the current U.S. President are kindred spirits. I would say, may God help us, but we can help ourselves to curb this madness by exercising our immense power as U.S. citizens who can wield votes to control our government. Let nothing stop us from doing so on or before Nov. 6, and let us help others to do so if necessary.
44
Is it the Trump administration that wants to maintain deep ties to the Saudis for years to come, or is it the Trump business organization that wants to maintain these ties?
I think the latter is what is driving our national policy.
45
@Greg I agree with your comment. The greed of the Trump business knows no bounds. While SA maybe an uncomfortable business partner, there is money to be made so Kushner will swallow and Trump will deal. The POTUS is using the post to make as many $$$$ as possible in the time available. The folks partnering the arms deals contribute handsomely to GOP coffers.
1
Amazing.
So the caravan of mothers and children and asylum seekers now includes "middle easterners" as well.
Maybe the man means folks from like Rhode Island and Delaware.
He can't mean the oil peddlers. You know, the folks who engineered 9/11. The guys who just hog-slaughtered a journalist who made the U.S. his home.
He can't mean those people, right?
That would mean all his big money sell-out deals would die.
Nah, he has to mean the North and South Carolinians. They must have been vacationing in Costa Rica and forgot their passports to get back into the country.
Hope they like camping out with barbed wire and soldiers with guns. Like WW2.
Trump. Making America safe for insanity, one ill-conceived debacle at a time.
Vote for sanity Tuesday.
79
Yea, but where is the collective Democratic outrage? Where is it?!?!?
10
What nice friends we cultivate.
34
One day, in a dark and not-so-distant future, some American commando is going to waste this MBS figure. Why do we have to wait for the war? What happened to American power?
7
No surprise-after weeks of silence and even a visit to Turkey by Gina Haspel, the director of the CIA,there are going to be no consequences suffered by Saudi Arabia for the grisly murder of an American resident and a reporter for the Washington Post.Trump Inc.have made the cynical calculation that he can help them advance their middle eastern projects and profit from his arms purchases.This Crown Prince is not modern, he employs the murder and torture of the Middle Ages.Anyone who does business with him must know that he is duplicitous and will turn against them in a heartbeat.A leader with lots of money and no morals is a recipe for even more disaster.
72
Chances are the the justice won’t be served in this case though the international community knows the truth because Power and Money is above law and justice in many countries. I
15
@MK Hear that Mitch McConnell? I wonder what country MK might be referring to?! Care to chime in Mr. Koch?
1
So, if a poor person kills a man it is murder. If a rich person kills a man it is poor judgement?
And, if a poor man kills many people it is terror. When a rich man kills many people it is a way to gain influence in the the region.
118
In addition to all the other White House ugliness we now are learning that the president and his son-in-law are not affected by the grisly execution. What an amoral pair. It now appears that Jared, through is conversations with the Crown Prince, may have actually been complicit by supplying information and in giving the impression that the United States didn't much care about the Crown Prince's repression of Saudi citizens. How low Trump has dragged our country.
Trump and Kushner are propping up the Crown Prince as best they can. He is now effectively the king. He is not going to let go. In fact, he can't let go because he has too many enemies. The affair will only end if someone in Saudi Arabia does him in.
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@Victor I would restate that a little - The Crown Prince has been propping up Trump and Kushner. Both owe their current financial stability to this Crown Prince. They can't afford to cut him loose.
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@Victor I saw a discussion panel where it was stated the Saudis treat Jared as a joke and have him in the palm of their hands. Which indicates someone who was totally out of his depth in international relationships and how they work but at the end of the day the billions of dollars in arms is the bottom line. World wide we will continue to be absolutely appalled at the photo's out of Yemen of the starving and injured children.
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@Victor I could not have a worse opinion of Donald Trump and the people around him, but can anyone tell me when a U. S. government has cared about the lack of democracy and decent behavior in Saudi Arabia. There might have been cases. I would like to know.
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What has happened to our American moral values?
We supply Saudis with weapons of war to make money. Trump still wants to salvage these billions in sales even after Khashoggi's brutal murder. Most of the 9/11 terrorists came from Saudi. Money isn't worth trading away our moral values.
And with our weapons, Saudi's are bombing Yemen, and even bombing school buses full of kids. And the people of Yemen are starving to death. Babies are starving. Children are starving. And we wonder why there's so much hatred in the world against the US - breeding the likes of Taliban and ISIS.
May be the US never had any real sense of moral values. After all, we dropped atomic bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki - the biggest genocide in history killing babies, kids, and women - and still justify to ourselves as they were "life-saving" for ending WW2. And we let many Japanese war criminals go untouched - those who perpetrated the war as well as chemical weapons experiments on living humans - in exchange for helping America kill more people in Korean War and for the data obtained from those heinous experiments. There's no justification to any of this. No wonder Vietnam and Iraq came next.
None of this can be justified.
We're selling away our moral values and American lives for money. WAKE UP MORAL AMERICA!!
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Well, I'd wager that little Jared won't be jetting off to Riyadh for private midnight confabs with his friend MBS anymore. Too scary for Jared. Maybe now Donald will have to end amateur hour and appoint an ambassador.
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If Americans really wanted to be independent of Saudi Arabia they would force campaign finance reform to get the lobbyists out of congress, they would enact a substantial gas tax to bring alternative energy to the forefront, they would stop buying big SUVs and learn to use public transport, and they might even do regime change in Saudi Arabia. Unfortunately the Saudis are protected by the passivity, greed and ignorance of the American voters and their representatives and the ruling class of lawyers on K street. The proposed sanctions are like shooting one;s own foot. Trump does not have much choice with no popular or political support on either side of the aisle for measures that would free the US from Saudi Arabia
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If the democrats take control of the House they can hold hearings and find out what the US government knew of threats to Khashoggi before he went to Turkey.
The war in Yemen combined with the Khashoggi affair has caused considerable damage to the Kingdom, not just with Shia but with the Sunni populations throughout the world from Malaysia to Morocco. A propaganda victory for Erdogan and Qatar.
Is it possible for the US to ally with a less competent leader than MBS. Sadly, history shows us, yes it is. However, if Trump is defeated in 2020, MBS may lose his protector and a recalculation of US policy may occur.
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@George Cooper Why take sides with anyone.
The Iran Agreement was working towards a balance of power in the region in an effort to contain, and even tamp down age old rivalries and forge a new course. Now, there is a prospective U.S.-Saudi nuclear agreement.
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Don't you mean standing behind M.B.S.? Trump, for all intents and purposes. is aggressively using the arms deal, and oil prices to buffer himself between the Saudis, and Khassochi. He is hiding behind other people's need for Saudi money, to disguise his need for Saudi money. Like when he told the crowd at Mar-a-Lago, "You all just got a lot richer." He actually meant, "I just got myself a lot richer."
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RE: "having concluded that he is almost certain to retain his grip on power despite a growing international consensus that he bears responsibility"
And why not? Trump can kill someone on 5th Avenue. Prince Salman can kill someone in a Turkish consulate. They are just good old boy members of the same club. Nothing to see here, just important people doing what important people do and where the skids of commerce are greased by the little people. Just as they have always been.
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MBS will never again be anything more than a common murderer. If the world had any hope that the Saudis were trustworthy it's over.
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@Mr Peabody
He may be a common murderer but he’s “a very close friend” of Donald Trump.
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"...he Trump administration has decided to stand by Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, having concluded that he is almost certain to retain his grip on power despite a growing international consensus that he bears responsibility, officials familiar with the deliberations said."
There you have it. The Trump administration chooses a barbaric murderer over doing the right thing: clearly and forcefully condemning the man, possibly barring him from the US, etc.
Trump just loves these guys who cut off hands, dismember opponents and generally act like they are above any and all rules and laws. Vote, my American friends, vote!
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This war has gone on for a decade. I wonder why Obama allowed it to continue.
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How do I know the USA has lost its moral legitimacy?
Because even when we catch perpetrators like Saudi Arabia engaged in (say it with me) State Sponsored Terrorism, we look the other way because we hate Iran and love Israel too much to do anything about it.
Nothing would be better than if we air dropped Seal Team 6 into Riyadh and took out the Saudi leadership. Or we could just take their oil, they dont know how to drill for it without us.
If theres one thing we've learned from this whole episode (plus Yemen) its that the Saudis are so embarrassingly incompetent that without American support their royalty would go the way of the Romanovs. They literally need us to hold their hands in order to run a country correctly.
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Prince MBS is certainly no fan of liberal democracy but he's a lot better than than Ayatollah Khamenei
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@Amy
Not really, the Saudi Regime is literally funding wahhabist terrorism. Just as a reminder 15 of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis.
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I prefer Khamenei. I bet Khashoggi would too.
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Russia stands by Assad. We stand by MBS.
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@Bobo If Assad had committed a comparable murder under similar circumstances I suspect there would be many voices in the Russian power structure that would have called for regime change in Damascus rather than to continue to support Assad. Russian leadership is not dependent on Assad. He is useful, but not irreplaceable.
Instead of pandering to terrorist-spawning feudal regimes in the Middle East in the hope that they continue to use a portion of the money we pay them for petroleum to buy $100B in weapons from us so that they can keep their illegitimate dynasties in power indefinitely, the US should be investing $1 trillion - or ten -in new technology, here, inside our borders, to get ourselves off of their poisonous product forever.
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We need to unfriend him. Unfortunately the Republicans think that they have never met a dollar bill they don't like.
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@Keith So how do you explain Obama's support of Saud?
@Keith
That is why the next $100 bill will probably have MBS’ face on it.
The extraction of concessions including steps to resolve the Saudi-led blockade of Qatar or the Saudi-led bombing of Yemen makes it seem like someone in the DJT administration is paying attention. Maybe how world will view Saudi Arabia going forward will be mirrored by how it deals with MbS.
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That’s fantastic that the morally bankrupt administration continues to stand by Mr. Bone Saw. Fortunately, we will eventually replace the morally bankrupt administration, and hopefully that is when we have the needed conversation of what SA means to the US, and how much of an enemy they act, rather than ally.
Never ever forget 9/11.
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The US is stupid to continue a relationship with Saudis AND terminate our sale of military equipment to them under these circumstances. Money is not worth the loss of lives and destruction. The Saudis must restore Yemen, else the world community should ignore them. DJM
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