MbS is a murderous butcher so of course Mr. trump is one of his greatest admirers! Because our president loves dictators and charlatans he wishes he could emulate their unlimited power!
He is a dangerous authoritarian who is leading the US into fascism!
6
After repeating as long as he could the Saudi denial that journalist Jamal Khashoggi was killed at their Consulate in Istanbul, President Trump now admits: “Unless the miracle of all miracles happens, I would acknowledge that he’s dead. That’s based on everything — intelligence coming from every side.”
But intelligence has been coming from every side, except the Saudi side, from the very day he disappeared. Audiotapes leaked by Turkish intelligence has given grisly details of the way he was murdered. Those leaks and intelligence provided by U.S. and other agencies point to crown prince Mohammed bin Salman (MBS) as the main culprit in this. Maybe Mr. Trump was waiting for the Saudis to prepare their own narrative on the incident. That narrative, as reported elsewhere in today’s Times, would blame the murder on a top intelligence official close MBS, carried out without MBS's knowledge.
Was this narrative that made Trump have some afterthoughts on his threat that the consequence of the this crime “will have to be very severe”? Afterthoughts like: It’s “a little bit early” to draw any conclusion; no smoking gun has been found, linking MBS to the killing; and Saudi Arabia has been “a very good ally, and they’ve bought massive amounts of various things and investments in this country, which I appreciate.”
Today's Times editorial exposes the hollowness of the last point, when it says: “It is in the DNA of America to speak out against atrocities, even if doing so carries a cost.”
1
Why is the EU quiet on Khashoggi’s killing by MBS? It is time for the EU to fill the void that is created by Trump concerning human rights and moral issues facing this world.
2
Just out of curiosity, whatever happened to the $100 million that the Saudis gave to Ivanka for “Women’s Empowerment?”
3
The right wing attempt to portray Khashoggi as a Muslim Brotherhood member is beyond disgusting. Even if he were none of the actions taken by SA or trump could be justified. Trump may have given the green light to mbs. I say this because of the immense stupidity of the entire affair. It really sounds like a trump move. Especially after his lies regarding the media. It’s quite possible trump told mbs he wished he could execute journalists the way Saudi Arabia does. No joke.
2
It’s never until the pressure is on that Trump will say what the country and world want to hear. He doesn’t mean it and eventually his true feelings emerge. Montana is a prime example. He made a point at his rally to elaborate on his support for candidate Greg Gianforte’s assault on a journalist. So how does he really feel about the killing of Jamal Khashoggi? Not very much, and he needed to get that point across to his base. The moral high road will never be Trump’s first path to take.
3
NYT:
It is unconscionable that you have taken Trump bait, line, and sinker. He thinks EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD revolves around him. He is a three year old. Really.
When the NYT and other news organizations report “things” as Trump views them, you are doing exactly what he wants.
He has manipulated you into reporting world events from his perspective. You must think you are illustrating that Trump is a clown. He appears to be a clown. But this clown has the NYT validating his insane positions! BY REPORTING FROM THE CLOWN’s perspective.
This constant reputition of insane positions has inured people to them. You are making insane the new normal.
Who is the real clown? The editor of the NYT. Smarten up. Please. Stop being Trump’s dupe. You are going to get him re-elected! Argh.
1
One of the Saudi assassins already died in a car accident, according to Turkish media. Trump is delaying until MBS can fully clean house.
4
Trump’s so-called “shift in tone” means nothing. We have to stop hanging on Trump’s every word. He says things. He then takes them back or says the opposite. He makes statements that sound different on the surface, but on closer inspection they do not amount to anything at all. A change without a difference.
Trump is now saying that it looks like Khashoggi is dead. Well, thanks a lot. The rest of the world knew that four days ago. He says that IF it turns out the Saudis were responsible, there will have to be severe consequences. Focus here on the word “if.” That is the out.
During his half hour audience with the Saudis, Pompeo sat smiling with the King and MBS as the cameras rolled. Obscene. He then told the press, we must give the Saudis a chance to conduct their investigation. The Saudis would not comment on the substance of the case. No surprise. But the Secretary, too, refused to comment on the merits or express U..S. outrage, in even a measured way. Unheard of for a Secretary of State. He looked and acted like a Saudi puppet.
The Saudis will whitewash what happened and, if anything, pin responsibility on s rogue actor - perhaps a person or group close to the regime who allegedly went off the reservation and acted without the knowledge of MBS. The fix is already in. Trump’s original words - “rogue actor” - set the “tone” and the roadmap. Let’s not play his game or give credit where it is not due. The press needs to be smarter. It is being played.
4
October 19, 2018
How goes the narratives for our friends in the Middle East is or should be expected to yield exceptional trust and solidarity for the 'badness,' of the killing. As log as the evidence is appropriated with high degree of truth and if as well regrets as to the how, place and why this act took place - with such high powers of ruling governing albeit Saudi Arabia, and Turkey. As well the highest regard for a senior international journalist that should or must include the Intl Court Criminal Justice to act due process in message to powers of Journalism everywhere.
1
It's not about the arms deal that might go sour. It's about millions of dollars flowing into Trump businesses that might go away.
If the emoluments clause is toothless, why don't we officially remove it with a Constitutional amendment so that no one wastes time talking about it anymore? Let's slide further into banana republicdom openly so at least we won't be hypocritical about it. The progressing degradation of our democratic values and norms is bad enough, the hypocrisy is doubly nauseating.
5
Jared advised Trump to let it go as it will blow over. Jared also said this has nothing to do with the Crown Princes influence over a billion dollar loan his family needs to stay afloat. Eric said he has 10 buyers from Saudi for Trump condos and this has nothing to do with the crown prince. Ivanka hopes to get another 100 million dollars to pursue her agenda and again this has nothing to do with the crown prince. Trump tweeted that anyone claiming that he and his family are corrupt will be pursued by Attorney General Hannity next year, be warned by Kim's bf.
3
Trump was asked what the consequences would be if Saudi Arabia’s culpability was established.
“Well, it’ll have to be very severe,” he said. “I mean, it’s bad, bad stuff.”
. . .
Right! Its wasn't a simple 'body slam' that Khashoggi suffered; that Trump could have gotten behind and even lauded as warning to the "enemy of the people." So what will the severe punishment be? Will he sent Kayne West to deliver a three hour lecture (rant) to MBS? Pretty harsh stuff.
1
The Kavanaugh case and this one are similar in that there is a rush to draw final binding conclusions before sufficient evidence is in. Beyond that, they are of course very different. My view is the Saudi Leadership is evil and I put no evil deed beyond them, especially the prince. Having said that, while some of Trump's comments seeking to wait for the evidence to fully crystalize are, as usual, presented by him with unnecessarily defensive rhetoric, the idea of taking a little time to finalize a big decision is prudent. While it now seems there is sufficient evidence to conclude Khashoggi is dead and that he was killed with the knowledge of high-level Saudi's, which at the very least are unlikely to have done so without at least the indirect direction of the Prince, waiting another day or 2 for the Saudi's to present their evidence to the contrary is not unreasonable. But there "evidence: should rightfully be viewed with great scepticism as should that of Turkey because they have not been reliable and have a lot to gain with a condemnation of Saudi Arabia.
'Mr. Pompeo said on Thursday that the United States would give the Saudis a few more days to conduct their invesetigation. '
clean, sanitize, burn, dump, bury, brainstorm, bribe, kill someone else and frame, frame some more, more bribes, call Donny again...
1
That the need for the legitimization of an unspeakable atrocity seems to fall to Trump is another manifestation of the surreal Orwellian world in which we live.
He who brings us such spectacles as toddlers separated from families, devastated lives in Puerto Rico and thousands of deaths attending the hurricane a year ago and then minimizes or denies them will now offer judgment.
Travesty Prevails!
1
Trump's hatred of the America's free press emboldened Saudi Arabia's Prince Salman to think he could get away with murdering a Washington Post's journalist. If Trump helps the Prince get away with this murder, it will be an unforgivable outrage.
2
I thought that Trump had reached the nadir of craven toadying at his press conference with Vladimir Putin, where he parroted Putin's denial of interfering in the 2016 election. Turns out I was wrong! He hit a new low with his groveling, dissembling defense of Saudi Arabia in the murder of Jalal Khashoggi. Instead of holding the Saudis to account, Trump attributed the murder to "rogue killers", even as evidence mounted that the killing was directed by Mohammed bin Salman, the murderous Saudi tyrant who should be charged with war crimes in Yemen. He has turned Saudi Arabia into the most repressive state this side of North Korea. The spectacle of the most powerful nation on earth making excuses for a barbaric medieval client state is profoundly embarrassing. Like all bullies, Trump is a coward at heart!
2
To those not familiar with Saudi Arabia:
The Kashoggis and Bin Ladens, both, were and are leading SA families. The Kashoggis made their money in arms deals, the Bin Laden in construction. In both areas you need to be on VERY good terms with Saudi Royals to succeed. Adnan Kashoggi, uncle of Jamal and a multi billionaire was known world wide for his lavish lifestyle.
Both families knew each other. Jamal met several times with Bin Laden, most famously in Khartoum . That meeting was organized by the Bin Laden's family, that had turned to Jamal, a long term family friend to help with Bin Ladens's return to SA, counting on Jamal's connections with Saudi Royal family
An avid jihadist when young,Jamal morphed over the years to become the chief defender of almost absolute power of Crown Prince MBS.
Consequently, his increasingly critical articles on MBS in the Washington Post were widely perceived in SA as acts of traitor who had build his career (and money) on being on good terms with the Royal family. A snake in the grass who had become dangerous and knew too much
If the current theme is continued, the Saudis will lay the blame on this General. That will give them "plausible deniability" and allow Trump to soften his stance. Republicans will fall in line. Ms Lindsey will still have bad things to say about the Prince, but he will not want major sanctions. Jeff Flake will put on his mournful face and mouth platitudes. Republicans will offer "thoughts and prayers"
There will be a period of discontent and perhaps a reduction of arms sales, but after a while the status quo will return and the Saudis will continue to kill little kids in Yemen. Everyone will pat themselves on the back and declare justice served.
I made a "prediction" the other day that the Right would attempt to denigrate Khashoggi and that seems to be happening. Trump himself has made a pointed reference to the fact that Khashoggi is a Saudi citizen, therefore his death is diminished.
As a normal human being, I should find myself repulsed by the actions of Trump and the Right, but I have come to expect this from them. Their lack of moral fiber has not bounds.
SAD!!!!
1
"Saudi Arabia is considering blaming a top intelligence official, Gen. Ahmed al-Assiri, for the killing, according to three people with knowledge of the plans. The question is whether it’s to deflect scrutiny from Prince Mohammed."
Is that really a question though?? Given all the evidence that's come to light, including the prince's 'emissaries' threatening and coercing other ex-pat dissidents, and the Kingdom's total disregard for human rights and a free press, wouldn't any reasonable person- or court of law- believe that the prince had to have personally authorized this action? It's nothing short of nauseating to watch the world sit back and allow this corrupt regime to publicly concoct a story and figure out which person, following orders, to throw under the bus. I have no sympathy for his inner circle or security teams who may have executed the orders, but my faith in our own democracy is shaken to realize we would let this so-called 'prince' walk away from this unscathed.
3
I keep getting a visual of Mr Trump and Mr Kushner finding it impossible to get into their offices due to all the stuff shoved under their rugs...
2
Where is, or who has, the head of Jamal Kashoggi?
1
It is 100% certain that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salmam ordered the killing of Khashoggi. He may kill off the executioners to cover up but he is guilty as sure as he is guilty of killing off other opposition in Saudi Arabia. Nothing happens there without royal orders.
3
Boycott Saudi Arabia. Saudis murdered an American Journalist; Jamal Khashoggi. No arms sales to Saudis. No joint meetings. No military cooperation. Join the UN in condemning Saudis. Boycott Saudi Arabia. Ray Sipe
2
"Jared Kushner, Mr. Trump’s son-in-law and Middle East adviser, has been urging the president to stand by the prince...."
We need to remember this. Kushner looks so immaculate in most of his photos, but he is, as we know, a slumlord. Minions willing to do what needs to be done are part of the business model.
This son-in-law should not hold the power he's been given by his father-in-law. He's a very frightening kid.
5
Whatever DJT says, I bet it’s vetted by the Saudi's, “The purchasers of one of the biggest deals of all time."
He loves his deals. You know...that’s what he does.
2
We all know that the Crown Prince ordered the slaughter of a Washington Post journalist. We all know that a "strong" US response, regardless of who is President, would be a meaningless UN motion. We all know that we will do business with the Saudis as usual. If they got away with sending 15 killers to America on 9/11, what's a newspaperman?
"We are all part of the same hypocrisy."
Michael Corleone
2
Consider a boycott of Pepsi, ETS and consultancy firms McKinsey, PWC, Ernst & Young, Deloitte, BCG, Oliver Wyman, and Bain & Company, along with German conglomerate Siemens and research company SWFI if they sponsor or attend MBS’s ‘Desert Davis.’
1
Trump has no moral fiber. That has been aware for some time. Trump doesn't even want a free press here since he calls them all "fake news." So why should he be concerned about a reporter who has been tortured and murdered. He just doesn't care. He values Saudi's money too much.
3
@Sharon Conway, Not only that. It seems that Jamal Kashoggi had criticized Trump in some article(s)
No doubt the Donald at least would had body-slammed him...
1
Wonder when a guy who robs a grocery store of a few bucks will be cut as much slack. The answer is never because you have to be a really big pig to be given the opportunity to put on lipstick. In this case, the Saudis keep trying different lipsticks and we, unbelievably, are being told in virtual real time which one they will try next. When they find one that will satisfy the high rollers in this international tragedy farce, it will be one of the biggest, if not the biggest Dog and Pony Show since WMD.
1
aaah... so trump barely knows the prince... he was just the coffee boy of the house of saud...
4
Who gives a rip what Trump thinks. He doesn't know or care about the differences between truth and lies. He is a con man acting as a president. What's repulsive is the Republican Party and voters who support his mad man act. This is a sad time for our country.
7
The so called resident of the White house is unclear about Mr. Khashoggi's death a day after the Saudis admitted to his killing.
What doubt is there left about his galloping dementia is there? What more evidence is needed? They have the audio. Do we need the video?
4
I think it very important to let the facts settle to some known, stable, understanding before taking action of any kind. By holding back any conclusions or possible actions he may have in mind, at this time, President Trump has taken the right approach. I’m impressed.
Allowing knee-jerk mob rage to rule our lives as a society has not worked well for us and it has hurt our relationships/reputation globally.
Once we’ve reached this stable understanding - based on facts, not feelings - better decisions may be made that will lead to a more informed long term solution.
@due, no, trumps already weighed in before said investigation to provide doubt and cover to MBS, "rogue assassin's".
Besides you can never ever trust a malignant narcissist sociopathic pathological liar.
ok I'm going to say this outloud- no warning given to that poor man. Was this transactional? Does Trump get his money now?
3
@Due Process
So....according to you, the *right approach* as shown by trump is to obfuscate the truth, lie about the culpable actions of the Saudis (which have since admitted), blame "rouge agents" (as if they could just walk into an embassy, murder someone, dismember them, and slip away, unnoticed).
Wake up sir. You are an enabler to the fool who occupies the White House (courtesy of Putin).
Today
NY Times headline
In Shift on Khashoggi Killing, Trump Edges Closer to Acknowledging a Saudi Role
Le Monde, France's leading newspaper (and left of center)
"Affaire Khashoggi : les Etats-Unis parlent de « conséquences graves » si l’Arabie saoudite est impliquée"
("Khashoggi case: the United States speaks of" serious consequences "if Saudi Arabia is involved)
Interesting.
After his comments in Montana, I hope he's haunted every night by a headless ghost with severed fingers.
4
Saudis murder an American Journalist; Trump praises a Republican who body slammed a Journalist.This is outrageous. No! Saudis murdered a Journalist in cold blood; Trump is still siding with the Saudis. Boycott Saudi Arabia. Sanctions. No arms sales. Vote out Republicans to hold Trump accountable. Ray Sipe
6
An important reason for demanding that our leaders hold foreign governments accountable for such brutal, unlawful acts is the remind them that they themselves will be held accountable for such acts. Our leaders are not angels. It is not inconceivable that they would engage in the same behavior if they could get away with it.
5
It's clear that admitting this is killing Trump, figuratively speaking.
1
We need facts on how much money Saudi's have funneled to Trump properties and possibly even campaign or personal expenses!
4
No doubt Trump and company will give some kind of tepid public display of doing the right thing in the public eye, but business as usual will prevail. The U.S. oil and military investments rule, and any appearance of holding the Saudi government accountable is window dressing. In a final piece of Jamal Khashoggi's that was published in the Washington Post, he described how his good friend and prominent Saudi writer Saleh al-Shehi was now serving a five-year prison sentence for supposed comments contrary to the Saudi establishment, and the Egyptian government seized of the entire print run of the newspaper. Sadly, what Khashoggi described in his own column is only too true: "These actions no longer carry the consequence of a backlash from the international community. Instead, these actions may trigger condemnation quickly followed by silence."
4
Extra-judicial assassinations have become all the rage: the US assassinated bin Laden, the Israelis cheerfully execute people wherever and whenever they like, the Russians murder or attempt to murder dissidents with impunity, and now the Saudis have been caught slaughtering and dismembering a journalist who was only mildly critical of their vicious medieval regime. Of course, apart from the Russians, all these things were US sanctioned. There is no conceivable way the Israelis or Saudis, America's number one and number two ally, would act without a wink and a nod from America. Meanwhile, Trump rages enthusiastic over the criminal assault of a journalist from the world's most respected liberal newspaper, the Guardian, while at the same time denying Saudi culpability over the murder of a Washington Post correspondent. His puerile and imbecilic followers bellow and holler, clap their hands and stomp their feet. The rule of law is gone, international legal conventions are flauted, violence and brutality are celebrated and the US is in the thick of it, indeed the cause. Watch the money and arms deals carry on Saudi Arabia as they do with Israel -- it's all about cash and strategic advantage. Even when the Saudis attack America as they did in September 2001, it's someone else (Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Syria -- all coincidently enemies of Israel and Saudi Arabia) who pays the price. So we know how this latest outrage will go. Look no further than Washington, Trump or no Trump.
3
Ugh. It is utterly repugnant to me that the “leader of the free world” puts his own financial interests ahead of the brutal murder of a journalist. But then Trump is a malignant narcissist. Only he matters.
5
What is with this absurd concept that if the Saudis were "only" planning to kidnap Kashoggi everything's okay. Kidnapping is a very serious crime. Used to be a capital crime in most states. Probably still is in Saudi Arabia and Turkey. Relabelling kidnapping as "rendition" doesn't change anything.
Meanwhile we have Trump saying stuff like "This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately,” where the fortunate thing would be if no one cared that the gangster prince had a man tortured and killed for insulting him. “It’s not a positive. Not a positive.” Not the murder, but the fact that a lot of people care about it.
4
For the Saudis- how to simultaneously admit a crime AND get away with it. Quite a balancing act. With the assistance of our Pres, they might be able to pull it off.
2
It's just a matter of time before a reporter is killed in this country due to Trump's Anti-Press rhetoric. Of course, Trump will take no responsibility just like everything else.
5
@infinityON
The reporter in question was an AMERICAN.
Is that not enough?
Do they need to be murdered in front of Fox "news" for the right wing fools to understand this is wrong???
Ask Obama what he would do. Remember Raymond Davis?
@Aristotle Gluteus Maximus
Ah, yes....the "false equivalency" argument by the right wing.
Typical.
1
According to a former US ambassador on Cnn yesterday Crown Prince MBS had loads of internal enemies furious about his policies and lives amidst extreme security and spends a lot of time in his yatch to prevent an attack that'd be easier on the mainland.
Something seems off when we are enemies with Iran, a democracy, albiet with flaws, and a highly educated populace, but friends with Saudi Arabia, one of the last absolute monarchies on earth, where people are still *literally* crucified. Honest question. I just don't get it.
2
1979 iran took Americans hostage?..not easily forgotten
@Sa Ha
And America overthrew Iran's President before that, but you don't want to bring that up, do you?
The CIA has publicly admitted for the first time that it was behind the notorious 1953 coup against Iran's democratically elected prime minister Mohammad Mosaddeq and installed the Shah.
1
Did someone remind him of his unfinished Dubai Trump Tower? Or the Saudi and Qatari New York Trump Tower occupants? Or maybe the fact that Saudi monies for arms deals does not justify the murder of a journalist? Somebody knew something here and like children in a sandbox, they all point the finger at the other one without anyone knowing how to play nicely with the other.
2
Then he admires a congressman who body-slammed a reporter who was asking about health care. He wants journalists to fear reporting the truth. Trump is easing us into fascism, and Democrats are doing nothing about it.
6
Yes we are - vote. Dems take the house, and we start shutting down this horrific period in American history. And then let's never forget. Never forget.
2
@Phil Rubin He didn't just admire the congressman's crime, he actively condoned his crime and violence against journalists. But even more spine chilling, his audience laughed, clapped and cheered him on. The photos of the audience remind me of photos of people's faces at lynchings: cheering, smiling, enraptured by watching violence, pain and suffering of others! Sick.Sick. Sick.
3
Why is Trump "edging closer to acknowledging a Saudi role"? Khashoggi was in the hands of the Saudis, in the Saudi consulate when he "disappeared". There is credible evidence that he was brutally murder in the Consulate shortly after entering and there is credible evidence as to who carried out the murder, so what is Donnie's problem? He should have come right out and done what every other thinking person in the world has done: strongly condemn the Saudis for this crime immediately. I guess those petro-dollars trump everything else, including basic decency...
2
What continues to amaze is that even as Trump's behavior becomes more blatant; his outrageous statements more plentiful and more public; and his lies more transparent, his supporters do not waver. Regarding the Saudis, the Crown Prince, the murder of a journalist and a pending billion dollar arms sale, the president effectively channelled Abe Vigoda's Tessio in The Godfather: "Tell Khashoggi it was only business, I always liked him".
2
Just when you thought the Republican trump faction couldn't stoop any lower than they already have -
According to a recent report, a number of the more consertative Republicans on Capitol Hill in the media have begun a smear campaign against the character and reputation of Jamal Khashoggi. This is all part of a concerted effort to defend President trump's unwillingness to accept Saudi Arabia's involvement in Khashoggi's murder. The fact that Khashoggi was a journalist is further justification. An anchor on Fox said he was a member of The Muslim Brothehood. He is also said to have been an ally of Osama bin Laden. Mark Levin of CR-TV said that Khashoggi was a "long-time friend of terrorists" and that President trump was (again!) the victim of a media led smear campaign. Pat Robertson defended trump by reminding those "screaming blood for the Saudis" that they are "key allies".
In the not too distant past England, France, Germany - and yes, even Canada - were among our key allies. In the not too distant past human rights mattered more than arms deals. In the not too distant past the United States stood for freedom, dignity and truth. Today we live in a political & social climate in which "truth is not truth". To stoop to the depths of smearing & criticizing Jamal Khashoggi, the victim of a violent, heinous act of murder, in order to bolster trump's image as a patriot, is callous, selfish, and beyond reprehensible. I am disgusted, but unfortunately, not surprised.
6
Except that he was a member of the Muslim Brotherhood and he was a bud of Osama bin Laden in the distant past although he renounced him
@JerseyGirl
So say cherry-picking, Republican whisperers, looking for a reason (however flimsy or fictional) to excuse their amorality.
Read and comprehend:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/conservatives-mount-a-whisper-c...
Please, Mr. Trump, don't be impetuous. It's only been 17 days.
3
what if it is proven that a monarch approved a murder. Are we at a time in history, where this can have repercussions,even for kings? What can happen to a person so above the law?
1
Mr. Pompeo said on Thursday that the United States would give the Saudis a few more days to conduct their investigation.
So the administration will give more time to the Saudis to hide the Sultan's involvement, but wouldn't give more time to the FBI to investigate Kavanaugh's possible sexual assault. Nice.
7
Think carefully about a man, Trump, who would send massive weapons of death to a kingdom of head choppers.
Take a pause and think about our dilemma of being led by a butchers sympathizer.
6
The President is a supporter and participant in backing the killing of a Washington Post reporter. Impeachment should be rising in the east; Republicans may lose the house. Wheee!
4
“This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately.”
Why "unfortunately"?
Trump... you're an embarrassment, not only to our country, but to our species, an offense to decency. Resign now.
8
Retired Florida Senator Bob Graham, co-chairman of the Congressional inquiry on 9/11, was able to release declassified intelligence on the role of the Saudi government in the most serious attack on US soil in US history.
In addition to 15 of the 19 9/11 attackers being Saudi, financial support for the operation came from the highest levels of the US government.
Many people were confused by the subsequent attack on Iraq. That was ill advised, but it was meant to destabilize the Sunni leadership of Iraq, Iran and Saudi Arabia’s neighbor.
President Obama was correct to extricate the US from the Middle East, with the exception of true moderate allies like Jordan, Kuwait, etc. and Israel.
Senator Bob Graham said Saudi Arabia was not a US ally, having seen still more classified information on 9/11. Saudi Arabia recently signed an arms deal with Russia, promising a new era of cooperation despite the latter’s alliance with Iran.
The US should not be taking sides in sectarian religious wars with false, brutal allies. Saudi Arabia must pay for its attack on the US, it’s funding of Al-Qaeda, it’s spread of extremist Wahhabism and violent terrorism, it’s killing of citizens of Yemen, and its brutal dismemberment of an American resident reporter.
Trump’s alliances with Putin, bin Salman, Duterte, Jong-un and others of the lowest sort tell you who he is - if there was any doubt left.
3
Correction- support for 9/11 came from the highest levels of the Saudi government, not US
"Edging Closer to Acknowledging", as the title of this article states, means Trump is faced with so many facts (including audio of the a man's torture and slaughter) that he's forced to stop misleading the American people.
He's still trying to get Jared's pal and their deep pocketed co-conspirator, MSP, off the hook, by saying that the very reasonable and plausible accusations that MSB was behind this arise from the world's "imagination".
Did it really take an American Secretary of State listening to the gruesome tape to make an American president yield his sales agenda to create the appearance of other concerns?
Concerns so fundamental to civilization that it's almost hard to articulate them. Wouldn't these concerns, so basic to all International civic functioning, be enough to press Trump into an unambivalent and direct statement?
No. The killing of a journalist with permanent US residency in a consulate wasn't a sufficient reason to take a string stand against political violence. At a campaign rally later, he stated that a man who physically attacked someone at one of these events, was his kind of guy.
He is without even the most basic of human decency. Nothing new here: money & power still profit the man who has gained the world and lost his soul. God help us all.
2
I could have pointed out that the assault at Trump's campaign, occurred when an elected political official 'body slammed' a journalist, who was merely asking a question. It seemed sufficient to me (until Trump) that any attack at a US campaign rally would be condemned.
The murder of Khashoggi for political gain is merely the same- 'bigger'. The only goal is to play it for maximum advantage & only rule is to not get caught. Life's a cold game where the only thing worthwhile is winning.
My fellow countrymen, who continue support fir this "black hole" of a human, make me so very ashamed. Again, my profound regret and condolences to his fiance and loved ones.
May justice & basic decency prevail in the end.
1
“This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately,” Mr. Trump said in a brief interview with The New York Times in the Oval Office. “It’s not a positive. Not a positive.”
Unfortunately???? What is this man talking about? Is it unfortunate that the world dares to care. What is not a positive? That the issue of a man being slaughtered is not positive, or that its not positive that people dare to imagine that what looks like a fact is about to expose him for a fool to suggested rouge actors were responsible.
What is unfortunate and not positive is that we have as president a man who does not have the knowledge, experience or background that allows him to make critical assessments regarding global matters, nor the courage to address them.
2
The real Trump surfaced last night as he rallied the crowd, praising the assault of a reporter by GOP candidate Gianforte:
"any guy who can do a body slam ... he's my guy"
One has to wonder if Trump feels that way about MBS. Is MBS his kind of guy? Bold enough to murder a reporter?
6
Unlike our President, MBS is not stupid. He thought he could brutally murder a journalist for an American newspaper and get away with it. Why did he believe this? He could have drawn that conclusion just based on Trump's public statements toward the press. God knows what Trump and Kushner have said to him in private. Trump is now tying himself in knots trying to explain how a tragedy that follows directly from his words and deeds has nothing to do with him.
4
Now the unbelievable. Now the lowest bar ever set. The republicans are now starting to smear the murdered journalist. No morals. No ethics. Me first. Party second. Country is a distant third. Vote vote vote.
5
Trump is now part of the cover up. He's an accessory to murder and must be brought to justice.
4
Praise a congressman for body slamming a reporter -
His mouth continues to incite violence against journalist- egging on physical assault here, Khashoggi's tortured death over there...
lauded and emboldened by his mouth...
He's a sociopath
Voting in 18 days
8
And yet.
And yet, at a rally last night in Missoula, Trump didn't hesitate to praise a wealthy Republican congressman for "body-slamming" a reporter to the ground. "He's my guy," Trump chortled, just hours after admitting it appeared that Saudi journalist Jamal Kashoggi was killed by his own government, the government of the crown prince, and severe consequences would need to follow.
I'm a retired psychologist, so I have to ask.
Dementia, anyone?
3
If only it were a brain ailment like dementia. I think he is a predatory narcissist, who lives moment-to-moment, with no principles other than to "win" to give him any consistency.
Every moment is an opportunity for him to intuitively 'read the room' and determine for himself, the weakest point of his adversary & the most strategic move to his own benefit.
He has likely never had much of a memory as he functions on gut feeling & intuition, as he often states. A Myers-Briggs personality type profile would likely reveal intuitive-feeler type with minimal "sensate" preference, which is the concrete, fact-based world of observation.
Some White House aides made it clear a few months ago, that Trump wss surrendering to his preference for trusting his gut. It's very likely that at his age he's capable of nothing else, especially as, in his mind, it has worked for him, giving him the "wins" which are his only guiding principle.
If he were not born into New York money and been sent to military school by his father, to curb his violence (he punched a teacher, etc), where his aggressive impulses were channeled into sports and Top Dog status (and money), it wouldn't surprise me if he had grown up to be a violent crime boss without conscience.
1
You seem not to have gotten the new position statement from Fox:Khashoggi was not really a good guy. So now the kingdom' ownership group might be responsible but...it'll be ok!
3
Moral authority is not a phrase that applies to this country anymore.
At a rally in Montana yesterday for journalist-assaulting Gianforte, Trump reenacts the assault, makes fun, and praises the assault and Gianforte. "That's my kind of guy".
This president cares not for journalists or their safety. I think he believes that Khashoggi got what he deserved for criticizing Trump and the Saudi leadership.
2
Remember - a minority of Americans support this man and enable lies, designer facts, "evolving" opinions, sham investigations. The only cure is for intelligent people - people who face facts - to VOTE!
2
What a shame. People are paying attention to the brutal murder of Jamal Khasoggi and the abusive power of the Saudi elites. Sorry Trump. People do pay attention and there are (or should be) consequences for such grotesque behavior. Plus, this is an example of outcomes when the free press is vilified as 'enemies of the people' and power obsessed politicians and leaders try to defect responsible examination of their actions, motives, threats and behaviours. Its gonna be hard to equivocate this one away Mr. Trump. But I have every faith that you will try! Maybe you could turn your impressive analytical abilities to the destructive war in Yemen that is being waged by our Saudi buddies with our support and those income-generating armaments.
1
If the United States really had a commitment to human rights we would not separate children from heir parents at our southern border.
5
Meanwhile, Trump supporters are edging closer to saying that maybe Khashoggi deserved it.
Like, getting his fingers chopped off. Was that before or after the torture? Or was it part of the torture? And then beheaded. Of course, this is all speculation, but no one deserves to be disappeared by their own government. Some, like Spanish judge Baltazar Garzón, tried to hold Augusto Pinochet accountable for similar actions. Where are the Garzóns of today?
The parallels between this incident and the Kavanaugh confirmation are amazing. In both cases, Trump said the public was finding someone "guilty until proven innocent". The reaction inside Saudi Arabia has been defensive and indignant (just like Kavanaugh's reaction). The Saudis are looking for someone outside the royal family to be the fall guy (i.e., "she must be confused about her attacker's identity"). And today there are reports that Republican congressmen are beginning a smear campaign against Khashoggi.
1
The inflammatory comments that come out of the mouth of the man who is currently president of this country and the fact that he takes instructions from Kushner an unexperienced and obviously slanted advisor reaks.
What does this message send to the rest of the world?
2
The more I read about this the more I believe trump is complicit in this crime.
What better way to attack the press, the Washington Post, who is the enemy in trump's sick mind and send a message and put the blame elsewhere. Now the right is trying to justify the act by destroying Khashoggi's reputation saying that he was a terrorist sympathizer and that is what happens to people like him. Ah, how trumps base will love it, after all he wasn't an American.
Desensitization is what this is all about, the beginning of an all out attack on freedom of speech.
In the long run, the name of Jamal Khashoggi will be recognized along others such as Nelson Mandela and Martin Luther King. The two princes, J.c.Kushner and M.b.S., will be rich nobodies.
In the short run, 'unfortunately,' we the people of the USA are in a world of hurt.
1
Wow. Really. Before, or after the Saudis acknowledged there is audio of Saudi assassins cutting off Khashoggi's fingers and head?
Jamal Khashoggi was an old friend of Osama bin Laden.
Media martyr Jamal Khashoggi is being described as a political dissident. Sure. So were Hitler, Khomeini and Osama bin Laden. By no coincidence, Jamal Khashoggi was an old friend of Osama bin Laden.
If the Saudis disposed of him, they seem to have gotten rid of a terrorist mouthpiece.
The media has reported Trump's every idiotic thought and word, giving him far too much power. Like a babbling street person aimlessly waving a knife, Trump needs to be quietly stepped around while we expose the republicans who are keeping him in office.
2
Wow, there are a lot of Canadians here today. Thank you for your moral support. We need our Canadian brothers and sisters to stand with us because The Donald is not just bad for the U.S., he is bad for the world. Please urge, beg, and plead with every American you know to vote in Nov.
So if proof comes that the Saudis killed Khashoggi and we decide to not sell them arms it will only hurt the companies that sell the arms and its stockholders. Since these companies probably pay no or little tax it will not hurt the government financially. Why would we want to be allied with a barbaric country?
Once again Trump's handlers drag him, kicking and screaming, into backing off on supporting the murderous thugs he admires and apparently wishes he could be more like. He LOVES the Saudis, he says, because they bought hundreds of millions of dollars of real estate from him. Same reason he loves the Russians. How they got their money, who cares? Given enough power, I have little doubt that Trump would not hesitate to deal with his critics and accusers the way these people he "loves" do. I think that his supporters need to understand that the reason that like him is that it's human nature to want to lash out at perceived enemies like he does. Smart autocrats use this instinct to blame others for things that are going wrong, the way Trump does (and Hitler did) until they gain enough power to destroy anyone who criticizes them for anything. Maybe his supporters will get the picture before it's their daughters he goes after, in one way or another.
This is MBS's 5th Avenue moment. It appears the Trump administration originally believed that he could get away with this brutal crime, but are now backpedaling. Perhaps what really worries them is the realization that Trump himself is not as invulnerable as he believes. Let's hope that Trump himself soon faces his own 5th Avenue moment, when he does or says something so atrocious that even his supporters can't ignore it, and he suffers the consequences.
The president embraces thugs, dictators and bullies and his base cheers him for it. He owes money to Russians and Saudi’ who bailed him out when no one else would, and we’re paying for his mistakes. He insults women publicly and people shrug. He and his allies in the senate and congress are destroying the middle class and have assured their agenda with a packed Court. Proud boys and right wing extremists (read nazis) are on the rise and act like they have the right to terrorize and attack anyone not white, Jewish or extreme as they are. He is a disaster the likes of which may never be rectified.
Buried in the article:
1. "American intelligence officials have not yet had access to the audiotapes"
2. "they must rely on other information they have and what the Turks are telling them"
Glad our "intelligence officials" are relying on the Turks. After all, Turkey is known as the gold standard in "reliable sources":
"Survey shows Turkey is leader in fake news in the world"
https://stockholmcf.org/survey-shows-turkey-is-leader-in-fake-news-in-th...
"Turkish mainstream media’s bad habit keeps getting worse"
https://www.opendemocracy.net/north-africa-west-asia/can-ture/turkish-ma...
“This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately...”
Hmmm. Freudian slip?
1
“Well, it’ll have to be very severe,” he said. “I mean, it’s bad, bad stuff.”
No more quantity discounts on apartment sales...
When will we hear of the Israeli participation in the demise of Mr. Khashoggi?
And in the mean time, the deplorable president goes to Montana for one of his pep rallies and praises the congressman for assaulting a reporter. Anyone who supports Trump at this point is un-American.
Did I just hear a gunshot on Fifth Avenue?
Trump appears to be once again a self-serving reprobate defending a merciless exterminator.
A Saudi citizen murdered in a Saudi consulate in Turkey is the latest attempt to smear Trump and gets wall to wall coverage in the leftwing media. Meanwhile, Mollie Tibbetts gets murdered by an illegal immigrant on our own soil, and it gets short shrift. When will the media care about Americans and America? In the meantime, the media spins up pro-Iran shills from Diplomacy Works (Wendy Sherman/Nicholas Burns) and Obama administration retreads (Samantha Powers) to chide the President. I don't know, but maybe Mollie Tibbetts and Katie Steinle are important too, even though they aren't journalists.
Woman had no rights in Saudi Arabia when Obama was president. Now with Trump as president they can drive cars. The Saudi’s killed thousands in Yemen without any repercussions when Obama was president but under Trump one murder is being heavily scrutinized. Finally we have a president that can make a difference.
Day by Day, the Trump administration and the Republicans are operating like a bad mafia movie. Where is the Republican Party that operated and believed in Democratic institutions. Awash in money and drunk with power, they are working at taking the democratic rights away from it's citizens like voting (gerrymandering) and attacking the free press (alt facts). PLEASE bring back the Republican Party of Eisenhower, Bush, and Reagan!
1
“This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately,” Mr. Trump said in a brief interview with The New York Times in the Oval Office. “It’s not a positive. Not a positive.”
Unfortunately?
There's really no reason to say any more.
4
It's all "Reality Television President" stuff.
Building "the wall", the friendship with Putin, his lawyer making a plea deal with Mueller, Stormy Daniels, the nasty stuff he said on Twitter about Z.
The denial of this or that obvious fact.
Nothing that the nation will ever profit from.
In fact, while we putter around with this nonsense, the country is going bankrupt.
"This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately.” What is unfortunate -- the murder, or that the world is paying attention and demanding accountability? Trump seems to suggest the latter.
America, elections have consequences (which are partly determined by cheating)! Vote for better government Nov 6!
6
"trump edges closer" He'll never get there...this is just a ploy to get the Saudis to stick more money in his (and Jared's?) back pocket.
3
The out in the open effort of Saudi Arabia officials to find a fall guy for Jamal Khashoggi's murder is straight out of the movie "The Maltese Falcon". The characters there have to find a patsy to take the rap for the murder of Sam Spade's partner. They settle on the hapless "gunsel" named Wilmer, played by the incomparable character actor Elisha Cook. The Trump administration is waiting to find out who gets the role of Wilmer in this grisly killing.
1
Will no one rid me if this meddlesome priest? - Henry II
Will no one rid me if this meddlesome journalist? - MBS
3
It's shameful that most of these comments are really just criticism of Trump. Trump's critics need to rein in their anger. It's disgusting to use the brutal murder of a man as an excuse to attack Trump.
@AACNY What's shameful is that DTs backers refuse to acknowledge the link between DTs war on the press / his embracement of brutal dictators with this despicable murder. What's shameful is that billions of dollars in future Saudi investments of our "defense" contractors merchandise is nothing but blood money. What's shameful is the Trump administrations involvement in the Saudi's genocidal actions in Yemen.
2
We are getting what we voted for, we should not be surprised.
4
Trump is a amoral liar. And he can't hide it anymore. Out of selfish reasons he keeps on lying, to hide his investments in Saudi Arabia and his "relationship" with the Saudi "medieval nobles". Due to lack of education he knows nothing about the history of the middle ages but he's making buddies with such figures.
"Dumb as Trump" is the new slogan of our times. Make this slogan popular, please.
3
"Caught the imagination of the world" What does that even mean? And when he uses the word 'unfortunately' at the end of that sentence, he means that it's unfortunate for him because he doesn't want to have to deal with any of this. This man is disgusting.
6
Kavanah. Kashoggi. Kushner.
Mr. Trump says, "Men are in danger" in a world awash in missing and buried women, brutalized girls; slapped, hushed, raped, killed, overworked, paid less and called "horse face". Journalist "are bad and evil" and those that assault them are Trump's "kind of guy", while Kushner whispers, "Wait, it will pass".
4
In a shift from the media frenzy, Trump actually awaits evidence in the Khashoggi death.
@Bruce ... ignoring evidence is DTs game - he only cares about the cash.
1
Why is this filed under "Missing Dissident"? Shouldn't the category be "Murdered Journalist"?
6
“We’re working with the intelligence from numerous countries,” he said. “This is the best intelligence we could have,” Mr. Trump added.
I think our President actually believes that the people will believe the outcome of the investigation. As if we're expecting the Saudi Gov to come clean, admit to the killing, how it was done, when, where, and to say they're sorry.
The American people are not stupid. They've learned well about investigations that come with this administration's stamp of approval.
2
The NY Times editorial staff is correct, the President needs to cut all ties with the Saudis and put as much distance between the US and them as possible. That way the US will have no ally in the middle east and Iran can control the region, including pursuing its goal of eradicating Israel. Now wasn't that simple, but you might want to give some thought to unintended consequences.
@James ... just keep parrotting the Trump / Flocks News / Pat Robertson / US arms dealers propaganda and maybe this whole thing will just "blow over".
1
Our relationship with Saudi Arabia can be summed up by this well-known quote: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
The problem is that is no basis for a genuine friendship.
2
Remember Trump's words with his interview with Leslie Stahl concerning that weapon's contract with the Saudi's.
If we cancel that contract, he said naming the companies involved, we lose a lot of money and folks lose jobs.
It wasn't about a lost life that Trump was concerned about, it was about the money lost.
It also makes me wonder how much money did Trump have, invested himself, in this weapons deal.
Trump might not be addicted to drugs or alcohol, but he is addicted to money.
1
Quote from article:
Later, before leaving on a trip to Montana, he was asked what the consequences would be if Saudi Arabia’s culpability was established.
“Well, it’ll have to be very severe,” he said. “I mean, it’s bad, bad stuff.”
End-Quote.
I'm not sure MBS can take a firm slap on each wrist.
2
World peace will not break out if the U.S. punishes the Saudi's for Kashoggi's murder. Punishing the Saudi's, though necessary, will only strengthen our enemies such as Iran and, if we withhold arms sales, weaken our defense industry. It is appropriate for an American president to be reluctant to do this.
Trumps initial response is always to make excuses for the malefactor if his actions have in some way benefited Trump personally. Self-interest drives every decision.
2
The Turkish government seems to be holding on to the audio they claim to have. How much could it be worth to the Saudis to NOT have the tape released? I have a feeling we will soon find out. I'm guessing a new investment in Turkey for $5 - $10 billion might do the trick.
2
Quote from article:
While Mr. Trump’s views appeared to be hardening, Mr. Kushner was still lobbying his father-in-law to stand by Prince Mohammed, arguing the scandal would eventually pass, according to two people who have had recent discussions with White House officials.
End-Quote.
So. All about optics. Wait for the next distraction and move on.
It's a "scandal"? Wouldn't it really be a "murder".
For the sake of expediency, perhaps it's time to create a distraction?
2
If the obvious facts prove to surely be the case and the US does somewhat within measures to slightly punish the Saudis, there is an upcoming WWE Wrestling event slated in Riyadh that is popular with the young citizens of Saudi Arabia. Also, overstuffed chairs in the area around the ring strictly for the Royal family. Trump should request to one of his billionaire friends, Vince McMahon, the owner of WWE, to cancel or at least let contracted Wrestlers boycott if they desire with no consequences to them for a no show?
Maybe I'm missing the point, but would this otherwise have been okay if Khashoggi hadn't been tortured and dismembered? When I read the horror expressed in many comments I get the feeling most here in America won't even swat a fly. It certainly doesn't help when the torture aspect becomes the sole premise for what is otherwise just a routine homicide investigation. If so someone in Saudi Arabia would be brought up on charges and punished, the whole world order wouldn't have to come crashing down instead. This whole case seems nothing more than mass hysteria fueled by political agenda driving the whole story the way it wants to because it makes Trump look insensitive to our delicate kitten feelings, not to mention protecting one of their own like some sacred honor is at stake. Never mind those who have to pay the price for this coveted place in society who may be out of work from the fallout from this and billions of dollars worth of contracts gets cancelled so America gets to prove how righteous they think they are. The fact that we build so many bombs and missiles in the first place belies that already, not that anyone would notice from atop our high moral molehill.
1
That says so much -- the "Kavanaugh defence," where there's no hard evidence, just enough overwhelming circumstantial evidence so that everyone understands he's guilty. Yeah, I'd say that pretty much wraps up the prince, Kavanaugh, Kushner and, frankly, this whole administration.
When the President of the United States expresses this kind of apprehension about the brutal murder of a journalist, whether they are a citizen or not, then there is little reason to believe that there would be a markedly different response if/when anything similar happens again.
The press are the “enemy of the people,” remember? Donald Trump helped lay the foundation for this kind of action.
2
The unfortunate part of this crime is that Trump was able to even speak about it all, and hasn't been silenced by the truth-seeking press a long time ago. If you read through the sub-text of his statements in the last week, arms money is more important than a free press being able to exist under any world dictatorship, and especially under Trump's dictatorship. And when the press itself is a target of those crimes, it's unfortunate that the spotlight has to be shone on the crime. The Saudi arms deal will go forward, because in America, NEVER stand in the way of making money!
45
@Robert M. Koretsky Sorry, but, even though it is all about money, it has nothing to do with arms sales, it's all about money for the Trump and Kushner families. Having, long ago, been re-lined by any and all sources of finance in New York where their scandalous behavior is known, they went, first, to the Russian Oligarchs with billions stolen from the Russian people; that wasn't working out well, so Kushner goes to the king. The Arms Sales thing is simply a diversion. Trump couldn't care less about the real financial and economic status of the US.
If we apply extreme justice, American law prosecutes any terrorist public sympathizer, Trump did say an excuse for Saudis as "Rouge Killers" instead of applying on them what we applied on "ISIS"! Shouldn't we prosecute Trump for being a terrorist?
Trump is 100% behind the idea of Government sponsored murder .
2
The disappeared
When it was over, once the dirty deed was done. When the body which had just two hours before had run with warm blood, and intelligent thought, that represented a brave Heart and an intelligent Brain, when that body had been completely disassembled and carried out in pieces. Someone came in with a bucket and water, they poured a heavy disinfectant into the water and began to mop up all the blood. Blood is the one substance that is the hardest to remove. It leaves a stain like a trace of life, a outline that a crime happened there. That's why every drop of blood had to be removed, the entire room had to be completely cleansed the crime had to be made to disappear, because blood contains the DNA of the human that produced it, whose heart pumped it out and blood is like an eye witness to murder. Every drop an incriminating voice.
The blood was cleaned up and all that was left of Jamal Khashoggi was flushed down the drain. Outside the Embassy, that Embassy like all Embassies a place where citizens in foreign land go for protection , outside the Embassy Mr Khashoggi's fiancé waited in vain. And all the future of happiness that lied there, future children , future family disappeared into the setting sun.
The professional murderers who had done the evil deed, part of a state run state sanctioned apparatus of murder were already headed back to Saudi Arabia. They were just following orders.
2
Doesn’t everyone realize by now that Trump will say anything depending on where he is and who he’s talking to? If you look at what he does, you’ll realize his ‘protests’ now are just for show.
Don’t be fooled. He likes strong leaders who destroy their enemies. And he’s classified the press here among his enemies...
3
The New York Times and the rest of the media are getting their information via leaks from the Turkish government. The Turks have their own complicated agenda and differences with the Saudis. The leaked information may or may not be true, but readers should be informed where their “news” is coming from and there needs to be a healthy dose skepticism attached to it. Instead every detail is reported as if it’s been verified through multiple sources which it hasn’t been. It’s all leaks and hearsay. This type of reporting gives credence to charges of fake news
No one knows what happened to Khashoggi except the Saudis. Much has been made about a Turkish report of an Apple Watch upload made by Khashoggi in real time recording his murder. It’s been days since it was reported. Where is it? It’s prudent to wait until jumping to conclusions.
So now Pat Robertson is coming out publicly to say "Thou shalt sell weapons to dictators" is more important than "Thou shalt not kill."
2
@Michael McCollough
Sorry, I just noticed I didn't include the link to the Post story I was referencing
https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/conservatives-mount-a-whisper-c...
1
Trump and Kushner may be the most amoral people I have ever seen. "It's really big," ????? And Kushner is advising that Trump stand with this murdering prince. I just don't get how a person can move through the world with, apparently, no awareness that other people exist - that is unless they are billionaires. The man just has no connection to humanity, which is truly pathetic. Over and over again, I have been simply stunned by Trump's obscenity. But this time, my disgust with him has moved into a place where I am so appalled by his clownish, brutish behavior, that I really am embarrassed to be an American in an America that is aligned with brutal strongmen. who, with total impunity, torture, murder and dismember an innocent man. That this crown prince dared - dared - to send these murderers into Turkey - reach beyond his own borders - well will the US be next? Journalists are not safe, ordinary citizens are not safe. Where is our democracy? How did this one thug named Donald Trump get to hold all the cards?
1
The swift movement by the delusional right to attempt bogus accusations of connections to terrorists by Mr. Khashoggi is both predictable and disturbing. Trump, of course, will throw this about to try to minimize the fires he started himself. There are also indications that the Saudi public is hearing a lot from their government about Khashoggi's connections to some dangerous players in and out of his country. It's not clear how successful these efforts will be in making summary executions acceptable to those who know the difference between right and wrong; this obviously excludes Trump and his enablers.
3
An update this morning - sickeningly emboldened by Khashoggi's murder, Trump doubled down on his treasonous disregard for the safety of journalists and the sanctity of a free press last night at his rally:
“I had heard he body-slammed a reporter,” Mr. Trump said, noting that he was initially concerned that Mr. Gianforte would lose in a special election last May. “I said, ‘Wait a minute. I know Montana pretty well; I think it might help him.’ And it did.”
“Anybody that can do a body-slam,” the president added, “that’s my kind of guy.”
Yes, that's something we all can agree on - alt-right, center and left - a man who body slams a reporter is Trump's kind of guy.
This is not locker room talk.
This is not rally rhetoric.
This is Trump's criminal disregard for human life.
This is Trump's campaign to destabilize facts and eliminate truth in government by terrorizing the media.
Vote Democratic in November, whether or not the candidates are progressive enough or too progressive for you. To Progressives: the revolution you stayed home to ignite in 2016 can not survive without a free press and an independent judiciary (he's appointing more than 100 right wing judges) to ensure our freedoms. VOTE Trump's power out of office in November and VOTE Trump out of office in 2020. It has never mattered more, and we can't do it without you.
Our journalists' lives, and all of our lives, depend on YOUR DEMOCRATIC VOTE.
6
The Saudi US relationship, for what’s it worth , can survive, Saudi Arabia will need to. Be rid of a Prince Mohamed. No credibility, he is severely compromised and damages Saudi Arabia.
1
American intelligence services most certainly knew within hours what Turkish intelligence knew, down to the audio and video. It is beyond credulity that they didn’t brief trump and his chief of staff.
Then why is trump denying?
2
I see a chance for some good to come of this. I have long believed that the Saudis are corrupt and evil. They are anti women, anti gay, and warlike. They brought us 911. They have pushed their Wahibi filth throughout much of the world. The press had fallen for the narrative of the progressive, young, Prince. He is a Saudi leader at the end of the day, beholden to the religious Saudi power structure. So, even Trump is going to have to act. And, do not worry too much about oil. They have to sell the stuff, or they will go broke. And, the frackers and alternative energy folks have given us a cushion. So, he may well bumble his way towards actually cracking down, something numerous, prior, administrations including the last one failed to do. The downside will be that the Russians will see an opening as our influence over the Saudis goes down.
1
Just a reminder to ask, "What if Obama had behaved this way?"
Congress would have impeached Obama if he'd done what Trump does in an average week.
5
I saw the picture of the man the Saudis are thinking of blaming (Thinking of blaming??) Sad to say but I knew Trump would be on board with his railroading. Sad!!!
2
It is no longer relevant if Trump is not yet convinced that Jamal Khashoggi was tortured and killed under the direction of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. This 33 year old kid has lost all credibility in the eyes of entire Western World and should be replaced if Saudi Arabia wants to be taken serious and do business with Europe and the US.
2
“Unfortunately, now that I’m president, the world is noticing all the stupid wrong stuff I do and all the lies I tell, so that’s unfortunate.”
4
Democrats, liberals and progressives who have no problem giving Mueller unlimited time to investigate every aspect of Trump's finances and potential Russian collusion, now want the president to find Saudi Arabia guilty without the benefit of an inquiry. In Washington nothing changes. The Democrats can have it both ways, simply because they are Democrats.
1
@paul:
Dude, you're comparing apples and airplanes. You're not even in synch with most of the republican lawmakers. Trump wasn't forced to say 'he's likely dead' by the dems, but by his own party! I guess in White Plains nothing changes. Trump and the republicans can have it both ways, simply because he's The Donald.
1
@paul
Democrats? It's decent people the world over who are appalled and disgusted by these murderous thugs, and by The President of the United States floating alibi's for them, hoping it will all just go away.
2
‘That’s My Kind of Guy,’ Trump Says of Republican Lawmaker Who Body-Slammed a Reporter"
Around the World the Main Headline
Why not in the United States??
s.whether - Trump's reporter body slam story is headlined online for NYT - I agree it's sickening, and terrifying.
What did kill more people, the honor and patriotism, or the human hubris, conceit, ego, prejudice and bias?
Or, are those two classifications unnecessary because we are talking about the same problem and the identical kind of human sin?
But, why are there two completely different expressions for the identical behavior?
Again, that’s just the matter of personal bias.
The terms from the first group are reserved for US and the others are designated for THEM, “our enemies”!
The only real enemy is not across the room, but right here in our own minds and souls, making us do the most stupid things we later get to regret and lament, depending on whether we were smart enough to recognize own mistakes.
Learn how to control your own cravings and defeat own hubris and you will finally be in control of our world.
This process is completely unrelated to democracy and voting rights because it takes place in your head...
1
Trump doesn't think before he talks. Nobody in their right mind would add "unfortunately" to his belief that Khashoggi's murder captured the notice of the world. Why shouldn't the world be upset with the murder of a reporter? Especially in the United States where our Constitution protects the free press.
Trump hates the press. He's proud of a Montana politician who assaulted a Guardian reporter. A person who approves violence against the press is a person who does not love nor wants to defend the Constitution of the United States. In other words, it is Trump who is "the enemy of the people."
8
@LindaWell stated and true!!
Trump showed his hand last night with his blatant approval of a Congressman who body slammed a reporter two years ago and still got elected. The praise was complete with a demonstration--and his crowd roared. Khashoggi's brutal torture and death may well become a reality in this country if we continue to countenance--without strong pushback--the criminalization and demonization of the press in general and certain reporters in particular by the President of the United States and his supporters and political party. Media--many of you have normalized the words and behavior of Donald Trump. Now, one of your own has been brutally murdered by an ally of Trump. Will the normalization continue or will at least some of you wake up and realize that your own lives may well be in danger in the days and weeks ahead?
9
Sure....we shall see. I doubt he will admit anything.
1
@Joanne
Trump has favorite words and phrases that he uses over and over again--like "disaster", "deny", "Sad" , "never before in the history of the world", and "we shall see" . Now keep in mind that these pet phrases are always associated with some kind of lie, falsehood. "We shall see" rhymes with "It doesn't bother me/ So let it be, let it be."
1
The 15 assassins--14 now, apparently--are all dead men walking, of course. But Trump just wants Saudi to come up with one scapegoat, a rogue actor, and he'll claim the case is closed. We should not accept that. This is an especially appalling chapter in Trump's willingness to bow down to authoritarians and sacrifice America's principles, all so he and Kushner can continue enriching themselves at America's expense. We should hold them accountable. All of them.
9
We see how this is going to play out. Trump and his GOP accomplices will do what ever they can to help another authoritarian ruler literally get away with murder.
MBS is about to name his chosen scapegoat who well may have been complicit it the act and may have been the person directed by the prince to kill Khashoggi in the first place.
We know how "justice" works in SA and this poor scapegoat will likely wind up under the executioner's sword assuring once and for all he cannot tell anyone what he was told to do.
Then with another corpse under his royal belt and his buddy Trump and the GOP to cover for him it will be back to business as usual.
It's always about money with both Trump and the GOP, mere humans are expendable so long as billions are to be made.
//
2
A dissident from a major vital ally, Saudi Arabia, migrated to the States and wrote dissenting columns about the Saudi's in the Washington Post, visible to most of the government. His writing risked our alliance valued as a bulwark against the regions roots of Terrorism.
A massive arms deal was being promulgated and our reliance on Saudi crude was known.
Jamal Khashoggi's writings were risking a lot. He was apparently killed after leaving the safety of the states.
Trump delayed reactions and showed zero outrage about the killing, instead, pushing for his arms deal with the Saudi's. Former C.I.A. Director Pompeo assisted in the delay of weeks under the auspices of "Investigating".
I suspect all this was designed to silence and cover up the killing of the Saudi Dissident Khashoggi.
A weeks long delay by Trump and Pompeo effectively got us all past the rage stage to a place where the shock has worn off and apathy takes hold. It's human nature.
I just read the article about Trump's rally in Testors state in which he cultivated the hatred and anger and boasted about how he liked that a Guardian reporter was "Body Slammed" by the candidate he was there for and how he liked him for it.
I think with these facts in mind, we can now suspect Trump and other Americans in the luring and death of the Saudi dissident along with the Saudi's motivated to preserve the alliance and arms deal.
5
Why every morning do I wake up to an episode of Breaking Bad lite. My body and mind crave No Drama Obama.
17
@ACJ
I think many more people are happy to be back working.
I seek solace in the lovely fall colours signaling autumn tightening its strong grip until Winter forces us unyieldingly into submission. These colours bridegroom Jamal Khashoggi, will now no longer see. He won't enjoy the fall colours in Virginia with is new wife. His crime was being a journalist. The world stage has never been angrier or bloodier. Leaders and countries come and go; people's memories come and go. But as the fall colours demonstrate, some things are indisputably enduring: love, hate, Christian, Muslim, faith, wealth and poverty. It is wrong to take a life, period. One dissident journalist's grisly fate is now the touch-paper for how two great nations will continue to connect or disconnect. But there are other genocides in the world like Myanmar's Rakine state and the predilection for states to embark on state-sponsored killings of dissident voices. Russia, China, North Korea, Saudi Arabia have all been recently implicated in extra-judicial killings of dissenters with Novichok, to simple disappearance from the world stage. This too needs UN policy, punishment and deterrence. We rely on wisdom and deep thought from our leaders to confront and resolve all criminal acts, across religious lines. Jamal's values were American values, UN values, Trump's values. His martyrdom to us all, should matter.
6
Jamal Khashoggi story is about a prince killing a civilian.
A century ago a civilian killed a prince and that single misstep pushed the entire world into the Great War.
Ever since every single nation that participated in the bloodshed claims the conflict was absolutely unavoidable and all of them brainwashed the countless generations of the kids that the wars are the matter of honor and patriotism instead of teaching them to be the worst kind of mistake the humanity can ever make.
Please, let me tell you the straight facts. During the Great War twenty million people died and equally many got wounded, but the Habsburg prince was still dead.
No historian ever blamed the governments of Austria, Germany, France, Great Britain, Russia and the USA for starting the suicidal conflict over the irresponsible actions of a single individual...
That’s the pure truth stripped of all human hubris, ego, conceit, prejudice and bias.
7
A brutal murder and dismemberment of a respected journalist has “caught the imagination of the world," Mr. Trump says ... then adding the adverb "unfortunately." Although Trump's knowledge of English grammar is demonstrably deficient, one can only be embarassed, horrified, and outraged that he thinks the world's reactoion is "unfortunate."
This person is morally unfit to be President of the United States.
12
If the President of the United States is deaf, dumb and blind to the actions of evil men. Then who will protect us from evil men.
10
A surprising characteristic of Fascism is that it first gains the support of the masses----not necessarily majority support but substantial support, sufficiently strong so that is can not be ignored. The Harvard professor Daniel J. Goldhagen wrote a troubling book, "Hitler's Willing Executioners" in the 1990's---in which he posits that massive amounts of ordinary Germans --- ordinary people who went to work and came home in the evening----joined together to join the rallies and shout allegiance in unbounded enthusiasm to the new Fascist leadership. These people provided the basis for Hitler's ascent to power. Hitler used his power to brutalize the Jews foremost and also vast swaths of humanity. Ordinary people can accept the cruelest type of government under certain circumstances. I fear that we are treading closer and closer to a government which is dropping all pretenses to the demands of decency , morality, and ethics. That we are now beating around the bush as if there is clouded uncertainty about who brutalized and murdered Khashoggi---as if the guilty party is really difficult to point out---shows a brutal streak within our government. Shout out the unacceptability of such behavior and make no bonds with such people! We now throw compassion to the wind and accept "doing whatever must be done". Consider the cruelty, the brutality in the separation policy for migrant children. Never before would such a policy have been countenanced. Alas!
10
While the world cries in pain and looks forward to USA to punish KSA for its alleged role in murder, the cover-up story-cum-delayed action by the Trump administration truly disappoints every one.
21
@Mohammad Azeemullah
Agreed. But to ease their disappointment, other countries should also feel free to step up and punish KSA.
1
When do we start behaving like decent people again? the "outrage" is missing here and excuses to actually justify this disgusting murder are being formulated.....
Take a look in the mirror, America....See the faint shadow of a swastika? He has the camps for kids in Texas now and is trying to justify the murder of a journalist.
How big is that ring thru your nose? If you dare to dissent, you are part of a "mob".
Vote as if your life depends on it...It does.
24
"the president has begun to distance himself from Prince Mohammed, 33, saying he barely knows him."
The standard opening move by the occupant of 1600 as he gets ready to jettison an inconvenient accomplice. Unfortunately, The Kingdom is slightly more consequential than Paul Manafort and various campaign aides.
12
If the Saudis will kill an outspoken journalist, they will have no second thoughts about confiscating the assets of foreign investors. Think about it. MBS is a ruthless idiot.
14
“This one has caught the imagination of the world....”
You can almost hear him say that if only more journalists were killed, this one wouldn’t be a big deal.
14
Right in the middle of one of the most horrendous international murders, Trump praised Rep. Greg Gianforte of Montana for body-slamming a reporter last year. Trump admirably said he was a tough cookie. This he said after Jamal Khashoggi, a reporter for the Washington Post, was tortured, killed and dismembered by a hit squad from Saudi Arabia last week. Trump has no empathy, and certainly no class, and he has undeniably become King of the Rednecks.
23
@Wally Wolf I completely agree with you. I have never been as disappointed in the American people, as when they elected this horrible man. I admit--Bernie Sanders was hardly a choice, but TRUMP? Come on!
1
"In conversations with allies, the president has begun to distance himself from Prince Mohammed, 33, saying he barely knows him."
I don't know how anyone can trust this man. If there ever was a fair-weather friend, Trump is the one. He will throw even his closest friends overboard: Manfort? Was with me a shot time. Cohen? He was only a PR man? The great ally in the Middle-East?
I barely know him.
What is truly disheartening and incomprehensible is the fact that many people still follow him.
13
Wondering what The White House response would be if the reporter suspected to have been killed by the Saudi Government was a FOX News Reporter
11
Trump has finally acknowledged that a man who has been beheaded and dismembered might very likely be dead.
12
What makes this story newsworthy is not that the Saudis arranged Khashoggi's murder. It is that Donald Trump is coming close to acknowledging a fact that is inconvenient for him. Trump lies so often that his admitting the truth is newsworthy!
11
El Presidente Trump moves the United States of America one step closer to banana republic status. Giving tacit approval to the behaviour of the thugs he so admires places him in the company of despots. Especially when he acts on the advice of a quisling son in law.
15
This week Trump praised Greg Gianforte, a Montana congressman who was convicted of attacking a reporter in 2016 when the reporter asked the then-candidate a legitimate question. Gianforte, like Trump, is a liar. He claimed self-defense until witnesses and a recording showed him to be lying. For doing this, Trump called him "a tough cookie" and "my kind of guy." No doubt.
Now Trump, enamored with strongman dictators, is assisting the Saudis in contriving an alibi for the brutal murder of another reporter. When an American reporter is murdered, will he behave any differently?
Our president is thug. If he had not inherited money, he would be terrorizing the night manger of the local bodega and boosting cases of beer. Ever person who supports him shares responsibility of the filth this man has smeared our country with.
23
@Norwester Finally! Someone who understands what a lowlife we have elected as out Commander in Chief.
1
Love the juxtaposition of DJT praising assault of journalist in Montana with lingering unwillingness to believe Saudi murder of journalist.
9
Khashoggi has become what Dictators ,King's Popes and now Presidents have feared most , a martyr.
12
As Trump began to harden his stance on Saudi Arabia, Jared Kushner “was still lobbying his father-in-law to stand by Prince Mohammed, arguing the scandal would eventually pass.” Kushner doesn’t seem to be taken aback by Khashoggi’s grisly killing. It shows how callously indifferent he is to atrocities.
Trump seems upset by the gory account given to him by the intelligence “coming from every side.” Although he vowed “severe” consequences for those responsible, it remains to be seen whether he will change his mind soon.
Putin has said it is a pity that Khashoggi has gone missing, but that Russia cannot damage relations with Saudi Arabia without hard facts. Once again he wants to belittle US intelligence, which he blames for Russia’s fraught relationship with Trump. He denies meddling in the 2016 presidential election and other elections elsewhere, teaching Trump to disparage the intelligence community’s integrity.
9
Look to the right of this column today and read Max Fisher's excellent piece, "How One Journalist's Death Provoked a Backlash That Thousands Dead In Yemen Did Not."
Ever since this story broke I've been railing against our collective hypocrisy, turning a blind eye to the outrages, awaking only when a poster child makes headlines. Fisher quotes Stalin, "The death of one person is a tragedy but the death of one million is a statistic."
Max Fisher, "Why now? Why this? It is a surprise, underscoring the unpredictability of today’s world. And yet it also reveals many of the most enduring truths of alliance politics, group psychology and perceptions of morality."
Why are those truths so stubbornly enduring? What they really speak to is our inability to see ourselves connected to all beings and all things on this earth. Until that changes, and change it must if we are to survive, we are doomed to exist in the lower plane of a tribal existence.
Trump is just another poster child, whose every utterance displays the worst of humanity, "This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately." Yes it has. Fortunately. But before we pat ourselves on the back for our moral courage in calling him out, we need to examine why it took THAT before we paid attention. Trump is not the problem. He is but the symptom. And 'his people' are not the only ones suffering from the disease.
94
Welcome to the real world.
1
@Memi von Gaza I think there's a case to be made for tipping points. Somehow this is the story that made us wake up collectively and truly understand the horrors that are going on in this world today in countries which are governed basically by mass murderers. (Trump's friends) I really don't think it belittles other stories, I think it brings them into focus. It's hard for the collective psyche to take in all the news of massacre after massacre, but this story was so clear, so nakedly evil, so easy to grasp hold of because of the audacity of it, that I do think it is a starting point for us to come to grips with what's going on in the world.
1
@Memi von Gaza Because slavery is a concept people have always been cool with and dismemberment isn't. This isn't difficult to understand. There's no monetary gain for caring about slaves, so the people in any actual position to do something don't care. Humans are awful. They always have been and they always will be right up to the moment when we destroy this planet and most of the species on it.
Yes it’s “unfortunate” the world wants justice for a murdering dictator. There is no one word to describe what Trump is—and because he is so many bad things at once we seem to stop caring. But I have one word that’s been settled on in my mind: Trump in a word is the enemy of democracy. ENEMY is the word.
17
The $110 billion arms "deal" is a myth. It's simply a wish list in a letter of intent which the Saudis may or may not honor. And for Pat Robertson, a supposed Christian, to say we shouldn't risk an arms deal "over one man's killing" is even more horrifying. MBS has been exposed to the world as a murderer, Trump's inability to admit it has disgraced our nation and Pompeo's simpering performance with the crown prince, even to the point of accepting his phony denials and his pledge to investigate the murder he ordered was even more disgusting. Like many Americans I am appalled and shocked by the conduct of this administration and the evangelicals who support it.
21
This article and the accompanying article about the transparent plan to blame Saudi Gen. Assiri for the horrific torture and murder of Mr. Khashoggi are mid-boggling in their implications. Jared Kushner wants Trump to remain steadfast in his support for the Saudi prince, since this is merely a tempest in a teapot that will “blow over” in his view. Trump loves his arms deals with the wealthy Saudis. As such, we have the specter of an American President who likely will sign off on a massive cover-up of a horrific crime that silenced a journalist who spoke truth to power. We have a President and his son-in-law who value money above honor, decency, the law, and the core American value of protecting freedom of the press. We have a President who likely will be complicit in the cover-up of torture and murder by pointing the finger at a Saudi general who will then likely meet his own grisly fate.
This marks another new low point in the moral disintegration of our nation. What will be next? Vote and get out the vote.
14
Maybe this tragedy will finally push the US people to demand the truth about high-level Saudi government involvement in 9/11. We still aren't allowed to read those pages in the 911 Commission Report!!!
8
There is no problem with Trump. There is one with all of us.
When we accuse the incumbent that he isn’t acting upon the facts, all of us should laugh.
That’s the most common sin on the Earth. Nobody among us is acting based upon the truth.
Haven’t you already heard about emotions, hubris, ego, conceit and bias?
That’s what truly makes the decisions in our name.
Even if the hundreds of facts prove us wrong we aren’t willing to admit it and change behavior. We aren’t going to do it because all of us are the hostages of personal hubris, ego and conceit.
We will even start the bloodiest wars killing the dozens millions people to protect our bias. We will keep repeating it every couple of decades but we will never learn the lessons.
Show me a human without all those weaknesses and you can claim that you met God personally.
Mr Porobic, while what you say is true, I hope it is also true that we have humanity in us. Our actions should show our humanity. It is not complicated.
3
@Citizen
The humans will never be perfect but the minimum threshold of acceptable quality is to eliminate the wars that killed hundreds million people...
There are no words to describe this most inhumane barbarious Incident in Istanbul. All we know as of now, it is safe to pinpoint to
the Murderers Principals at the Saudi Royal Family, namely to their Face MBS. Also let us not forget the endless atrocities the Saudis currently perform against Humanity in Yemen.
One could brush it off as "Who cares…" as seen on Melanias Coat in writing, but what angers me is that the US Administration, foremost Trump and his "smart" Son in Law" are acting as the Enablers of the Saudis: First State Visit with full "Pipapo",
unlimited supply of weapons, counter visits, Pleasantries on both sides to the point of sickening. Is it a wonder that Saudis have developed a Self-Awareness beyond civilized norms, thinking to get away with anything they like. All is about Money, Oil, Weapons.
Also the first reactions of Donald to Mr. Kashoggis fate, proposing excuses in favour of the Royals, could hint at a common interest to be preserved.
Let us console ourselves in 2 ways:
The world is watching and is screaming for Justice.
In 50 years from now the Country concerned will have ended where it has started: An endless Dessert, punished mercilessly by the Sun day by day and the Global Warming will play ist part.
4
So the media rallies to their journalists murder.
Kudos for that, but if the price is never shining a positive light on Democratic Party candidates or issues then the price is too high.
We have an epic election coming up in just few days and the media cooperates in waving around an irrelevant piece of paper from the Cherokee Nation saying that the dna test doesn’t qualify her for membership. A swift boating of Elizabeth Warren if there ever was one.
What’s going on here with this coverage?
3
Whatever may be the final outcome of this tragedy we should not overlook the original reaction of our great leader, donald j. trump, who was more concerned about 90 billion dollars worth of arms sales to the Saudis than he was about the murder of a journalist for expressing his opinion. There is something wrong with America when we elect a POTUS who is more concerned with the bottom line than he is with maintaining moral standards, And his supporters in Congress, and the churches, and in the hinterlands are just as morally bankrupt as the real estate developer from Queens.
4
In his last article on WP, Khashoggi praised Qatar and its media as supporting freedom in the Arab world, the unique media that was destined for Bin Laden tapes, AlJazerah.
Khashoggi's fiance too, according to some resources, has ties to Qatar. Hence both, Khashoggi and his fiance belong to the Brother Hood organization. The story of his disappearance embodies too much fabrications.
What is needed is a documented proof that he entered the consulate and was handled his documents, consequently left without obstruction, a credit for the Saudi side. OR, documented proof that he entered but didn't receive his documents, that is against Saudi's. The video for his entrance may be false, because people are not identified by their back. In a crime it should be fingerprints or DNA.
In case it is true, a Brother Hood fabrication, their is an extreme probability that he didn't enter the consulate, and you will not find any trace of him. Let us see.
Unfortunately, the media equates between a political crime and a civilian crime. Visualizing Khashoggi's case as a civilian crime while it is already politicized, is a drawback in dealing with the case. When it is so politicized, it must be sophisticated more than a regular crime or disappearance. Then you have to activate your imagination, or think of the unthinkable, after Dick Cheney.
3
Impossible to follow all the contortions here, sorry.
3
This seems to be part of the rights campaign to discredit the man. He was a journalist so he had associations with a lot of different factions throughout the Middle East. This transparent attempt to discredit him in order to provide cover for the upcoming shrug of the shoulders response by our government is despicable. The man was tortured and murdered on foreign soil for no reason other than speaking out against the kingdom.
1
@Michael S
Don't worry. The agitation and complications in the boiling Middle East for years is enormous, blurred in the Western media. You are not there yet. Khashoggi's case is just a reflection and extension of what is going on there, Cannot be viewed independently. Brother Hood Organization is a main player there.
I must say that the constant amazement about what Trump says - thinking he doesnt get things is nonsense.
He certainly understands what is right and wrong.
Truth or facts as the rest of us tend to value is something he doesnt care about. What govern his decisions is whether it will tarnish is image=his own percieved brand or further his business dealings.
If what he has to say conflicts with any of the above goals the will deny and disagree until eternity.
That is really the true doctrin of Trump and he doesnt really care about the US as a country at all - his only interest is himself and his familys businesses.
Everything he does now is preparing and nurturing potential and existing business deals.
That is his sole focus.
11
“This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately,”
"Unfortunately", really that is what Trump sees as the problem. What a sad sorry man.
10
Yes, the use of the word "unfortunately" must stand out to all fair-minded people around the world as an abomination.
5
No "shift". Trump is taking exactly the correct approach, and once again it's being distorted by his enemies in the swamp elite media.
simple as that
2
@Eyes Wide Open And no "shift" in Trump's loyal and highly irrational base refusing to consider for one moment Fearless Leader might be mistaken. Also very glad you mentioned the "swamp" Any updates on the drainage project? From my point of view it does not seem to be making any progress. Sad.
You mean Trump is taking the REPUBLICAN approach, not the “right” approach. You’ve all willing sold your souls to a Manhattan snake oil salesman, and we’re all paying the price for your willful self-delusion and adoration of your new god.
@Eyes Wide Open
Yes, it's hard to believe waiting for all the facts has now been twisted into a perversity. They have lost their collective mind.
When it comes to Trump, the media will overreact, grab a pitch fork and rage against Trump. This is why the media can no longer be trusted to objectively report.
If one US resident person's barbaric and brutal death isn't enough for the US to demand consequence and responsibility from Saudi Arabia, how about nearly 3000 more? Still not enough? So much for "Never forget 9/11" (an exhortation probably found on relatively more bumpers of vehicles driven by Trump's base). In case you've forgotten, 9/11 was the day that 19 hijackers, 15 of whom were Saudi nationals, flew three planes into America's heart.
I hope the use of the words 'transparent investigation' is not code for the same absurdly superficial sham look-see that was conducted in the Kavanaugh debacle.
6
Some of us have understood since 9/11 that Saudi Arabia is not our 'friend'. But they buy a lot of weapons, and their checks don't bounce. So...
7
“Mr. Pompeo said on Thursday that the United States would give the Saudis a few more days to conduct their investigation. He told reporters at the White House that the Saudi report would be ‘transparent for everyone to see, to ask questions about and to acquire.’”
Which is more than we can say for the F.B.I. investigation into Kavanaugh.
The Saudi government is more transparent than our own.
Who knew?
4
Trump is awful but his supporters and enablers are worse.
12
The “rogue killer” has been identified. And he’s a black guy.
Go figure.
2
The Saudi's looking for the murderer is very much like OJ looking for the murderer.
7
Gee, do you think Khashoggi is really dead? I mean, the Saudi family are such honest and good people who wouldn't hurt a fly.
(That's sarcasm.)
3
Will no one rid me of this meddlesome journalist?
5
Ok. Is Trump just a idiotic moron, is beholden to the House of Saud financially, or just holding his tongue lest he irritate the young prince (no, not Jared) and not be invited to pay homage to the orb.
Trump has called previous administrations failures. I believe Trump's administration defines failures, failures in diplomacy, international relations and domestic unity.
4
NY Times please stop quoting Trump as if he saying anything worth printing. “Trump believe Khashoggi is dead”. To print such nonsense is to pretend that Trump is actually considering saying something truthful. The truth is he and everyone has known for days that Khashoggi was tortured and murdered more than two week ago in the Saudi embassy on orders from MBS. To suggest he just came to that conclusion is to honor the lie he’s been telling for days in attempt to come up with some cockamamie story.
8
In the very early days of this reign, I noted that it would be impossible to locate a bottom to this fall into illegality, cruelty, criminality, lies, and abuses. I predicted that the real dangers would not be any single thing he did, but the normalizing of a process in which rule of law, decency, morality, ethics, and the truth were simply tossed on a trash heap and burned. That acrid smell? Those are our best practices going up in smoke; that's our reputation gone.
This is why, with every new revelation, I simply grit my teeth and resolve to work harder to remove this man from the office he daily besmirches. I know no matter how awful the item de jour is, it will rapidly be supplanted by something worse; that's by design. Just watch how fast this tragedy is forgotten. During the campaign, I dubbed this the DJT Doctrine: Pile the bullshit and crimes so high, no one can remember what's on the bottom of the pile.
That DJT had to rummage through his deplorable drawers to pull out this gem --But, but, but...he's not an actual citizen!--should turn the stomachs of reasonable people everywhere. That and the vote. If the glib, oily, disingenuous lying about the dismemberment of a US reporter with a bone saw is not the breaking point,I fear what comes next.
Enough. No nation can withstand an all out assault on reason, decency, civility, and normality. This --the torture and execution of a reporter--cannot become the new normal. Let Khasoggi's death usher in DJT's end.
11
Anyone who believes that the Crown Prince had no knowledge of the mission of so many of his security people is denial of the truth. He is a hands-on leader and bears responsibility for this horrible act. A man goes into an embassy for a marriage license and his body is torn apart, possibly before he is dead. Then at the direction of the forensic doctor his body is cut into pieces so it can be surreptitiously discarded. Then the denials from the Saudis begin. It takes a full week before the Turk's are allowed to investigate. Some interesting signs had been left behind.
Last night FOX NEWS began their smear job on Khashoggi, conveniently forgetting about the GOP's mission to help the Muhadeen in Afghanistan in the 1980s. Will Trump put human rights over commerce?
Why on earth should it be "unfortunate" that this gruesome murder has caught the imagination of the world? Because it's an inconvenience to the narcissist-in-chief? If Trump had any expertise in diplomacy, or any depth in his State Department, perhaps it would have been less of an inconvenience to him. I predict nothing will change. The Prince will get away with murder. Trump will continue to be his best friend.
6
MBS could step up and say "The riyal stops here." But that would require much more integrity and bravery than is to be found in our current world political climate.
1
The real problem with this is that when they show that the Saudi government did indeed kill this man, Trump will not let that stop him from doing business with them.
As far as he is concerned the dollar is more important then a human life.
All Americans should take notice of this because that rule applies to us as well.
5
There is a song from the musical "OLIVER" that keeps running through my head about Trump`s dilemma over all this. The character Fagin finds himself at a crossroad where his lying and schemes no longer seem to be working quite the way they used to. The line is ," ALL my life my friends have been scoundrels and thieves; so at this time of life I should start turning over new leaves? I`m Reviewing the Situation!"
Am Ambassador is equivalent to a four star General or Admiral. There is no U.S. Ambassador to Saudi Arabia. I suspect the reason is either Trump is unable to find a person who would be willing to follow his demented policy or he's unwilling to give up another slice of the pie he's found in that country.
1
Saudi Arabia will potentially purchase 110 billion dollars worth of arms from US companies over the next ten years.
So far only $14 billion has been contracted.
"Potentially" is the word that will allow the Saudi murderers to murder again with impunity, thanks to Donald Trump and the feckless GOP. We need to hear more about the Trump family business and it's Saudi entanglements. Donald Trump said this in Memphis in 2015: "I get along great with all of them; (Saudis), they buy apartments from me," Trump said. "They spend $40 million, $50 million. Am I supposed to dislike them? I like them very much!" Another example of why Trump "likes them" came in August last year. A visit from Saudi officials to Trump's International Hotel in New York City helped boost the hotel's quarterly revenue by 13% in the first quarter. The bump came after two straight years of booking declines for the property, and the manager of the Trump hotel cited "a last-minute visit to New York by the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia." And a lobbying firm connected to the Saudi government also paid $270,000 to the Trump International Hotel in Washington, DC, between October 2016 and March 2017.
3
I am beginning to think the only thing that can save this country and wake up the American people is a stock market crash, and economic disaster. People simply don't care about anything these days, most will not even bother to vote on Nov 6. But a stock market crash which destroys their 401k's will be the slap in the face they need. When the president of the United States is friendly to people like Putin, Kin Jung-un and Mohammed bin Salman, men who are cold blooded murderers, men who spit on freedom of the press and every other freedom and human right. While at the same time giving the cold shoulder to some of our oldest and most faithful allies like Canada, France and Germany then there is something terribly wrong. Our only chance is no longer in the hands of a complacent American society that cares more about video games and celebrity culture than world events, its up to the hand of fate to set things right before it is too late. America must stand up for freedom, especially freedom of the press. a right that the founding fathers knew was the foundation of a free society. The man in the white House doesn't have a clue and neither do the people who voted for him.
9
Waiting for the Saudis is just waiting for an excuse (aka coverup) to "plow through it" when we hear the mantra "he denies it." President Trump should insread be sending the F.B.I. to Istanbul and waiting for their report. The Turks have already leaked extremely strong circumstantial evidence fleshed out by The Times that a Saudi hit team with close ties and under the control of Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman was sent to Istanbul and was in their consulate when Jamal Khashoggi entered. The continued dithering by The White House is distressing when they now clearly admit that a U.S. resident with two children who are U.S. citizens was brazenly and brutally murdered by the Saudis on foreign soil.
A rational human being is not where Trump is today on this matter.
2
Several times now President Trump has misspoken on international issues, forcing him to walk back his initial comments. So much for The Art of the Deal (ghost written, by the way, by journalist Tony Schwartz) ... Trump needs to learn The Art of Diplomacy. Under his presidency the United States is losing its preeminence on the world stage.
2
It is worth noting that shortly after Trump made those comments about Saudia Arabia's possible role in Jamal Khashoggi's death that he headed off for a campaign rally in Montana where he lavishly praised Montana Republican Rep. Greg Gianforte for assaulting a reporter.
One has to wonder if Trump is testing out another appeal to his base in which he combines false conspiracy theories being spread by his loyalists in Congress and the right-wing media about Khashoggi's 'terrorist links' with his own never-ending war against the media to recast Khashoggi's murder as a welcome development for which MBS deserves praise rather than condemnation. Stranger things have happened in Trump's America.
7
Is it fair to suggest that Trump resorts to a type of reductiveness and dismissiveness as a default behavior because he simply cannot cope with the seriousness, complexity and intensity of such issues? Which is to say, he is way over his head (intellectually, politically) so his goal is to make light of it, brush it aside, have us all think it's not big deal?
2
Trump, Pompeo and the business community are running out the clock on this incident. They know the public’s attention span is short so what is an international crisis today, will be forgotten news by next week. Trump came close by acknowledging Khashoggi is dead, but won’t admit that it’s likely MBS had a hand in it. Pompeo is apoplectic about Benghazi but all smiles in Saudi Arabia.
I fail to understand why the U.S. is cozying up to Saudi Arabia, one of the biggest exporters of terrorism in the world. Even 9/11 is a faint memory. Oh wait. Could it be the money?
7
I wouldn’t trust the intelligence services until they finally come out clean.
We have to resurrect our country back to acting based upon the facts, not some bias, prejudice, hubris and ego. There are no perfect people, thus any agency employing the humans is prone to making the catastrophic mistakes like all of us.
We are trained to obey and follow the leaders, so when they are wrong the entire society is on the wrong path too.
What came first, egg or chicken? Did the intelligence agency fail the president or it was otherwise?
I am not talking here about butchering of Jamal Khashoggi. In any absolutistic monarchy where disobedience is the deadly sin, nobody gets to be tortured and butchered with a bone saw in the embassy in the foreign capital without the Crown being directly involved.
I am talking about the American worst problem, the Afghan War, the longest conflict in our national history.
How come that after we were attacked on the 9/11 by the Al Qaeda, the extraterritorial Wahhabi organization that was envisioned, established, manned, trained, led and financed by the Saudi Arabs, we blamed the Afghan people for the terrorism and invaded their country?
Would any court in America find the Afghan people responsible for the fact that those Saudi Arabs, who infested their country ever since the CIA brought them there to fight the Soviet occupation in the eighties, were illegally squatting in the caves in the mountain wilderness?
Somebody must speak the truth now!
1
A man is shown on video walking into the Saudi consulate in Instanbul and never comes out. Based on this fact alone, a normal person would conclude the obvious. The conclusion has nothing to do with “imagination”.
One can logically expand on the obvious using available circumstantial evidence to develop a viable theory.
Perhaps some light of day is seeping in, but President Trump appears to see things in very narrow terms and avoids being human in reaction to a human tragedy.
A normal person is outraged. A normal person demands the truth. A normal person recognizes the shifting explanations from Saudi officials. A normal President would not supply an unverified explanation to distract attention from a powerful Saudi prince. A normal President would use Executive powers to find out who was responsible for the horrible fate of an American resident, a US Person.
The absence of normal strongly suggests corruption at the highest levels of our government.
3
The learning curve has been long and slow for this Republican President and of course it’s still a major work in progress but every now and then we get a glimpse of the possibilities. The jury is still out on this one.
@J Clark Republican president? No, I believe he plays to any audience that will cheer loudly in their gullibility.
While shifting from the rogue killer story to the high level involvement of Saudi government in the killing of Jamal Khashggi though Trump edges closer to the reality, still hesitates to calling the spade a spade which can only suggest the Crown prince at the centre of gruesome murder mystery, that Trump will never once admit given his high stake personal/business ties with MBS.
5
This is pure maskarovka. Our intelligence community knew an attack on Khashoggi was underway and the Trump administration chose to hide this intelligence despite an established duty to intervene. Then Trump tried to give cover to the Saudis by suggesting this was a rogue operation. When that lie was refuted BY INTEL WE ALREADY HAD, Trump levelled empty threats against the murderers, as sincere as ineffective targeted sanctions against Russian oligarchs. Trump is complicit in murder.
18
It appears that apparent President Trump, possibly believes the apparent murder of Mr. Khasoggi might conceivably have been caused by person or persons unknown, apparently from a middle eastern county, or perhaps a middle European country. A presidential committee has been commissioned to investigate.
2
Trump’s so-called “shift in tone” means nothing. We have to stop hanging on Trump’s every word. He says things. He then takes them back or says the opposite. He makes statements that sound different on the surface, but on closer inspection they do not amount to anything at all. A change without a difference.
Trump is now saying that it looks like Khashoggi is dead. Well, thanks a lot. The rest of the world knew that four days ago. He says that IF it turns out the Saudis were responsible, there will have to be severe consequences. Focus here on the word “if.” That is the out.
During his half hour audience with the Saudis, Pompeo sat smiling with the King and MBS as the cameras rolled. Obscene. He then told the press, we must give the Saudis a chance to conduct their investigation. The Saudis would not comment on the substance of the case. No surprise. But the Secretary, too, refused to comment on the merits or express U..S. outrage, in even a measured way. Unheard of for a Secretary of State. He looked and acted like a Saudi puppet.
The Saudis will whitewash what happened and, if anything, pin responsibility on s rogue actor - perhaps a person or group close to the regime who allegedly went off the reservation and acted without the knowledge of MBS. The fix is already in. Trump’s original words: rogue actor set the “tone” and the roadmap. Let’s not play his game or give credit where it is not due. The press needs to be smarter. It is being played.
15
Trumps game is to lie and lie some more and then get elected and that’s why the republicans will win in the midterms. There are no democrats fighting against Trump’s greatest weapon and that’s why they will loose.
1
"‘That’s My Kind of Guy,’ Trump Says of Republican Lawmaker Who Body-Slammed a Reporter" Headline on the same page as this story.
14
Contempt for the press seen as a virtue -- after the torture of reporter/columnist's torture is reported to have included having his fingers cut off, a gruesome, perhaps symbolic message.
It's easy to preserve the US-Saudi alliance. Just make up a story along the following lines:
Crown Prince MBS made scores of enemies last year when he locked up in the Riyadh Ritz Carlton dozens of Saudi princes, businessmen and others who had bilked over 100 billion dollars from the Kingdom.
Some of these people exacted revenge: they paid for a rogue operation to murder Jamal Khashoggi as a way of embarrassing the Crown Prince on the eve of an important economic investment summit in Riyadh.
To lend credence to the "story" that MBS was behind the killing, several people close to MBS were recruited for this operation.
To preserve Saudi respectability internationally, MBS has decided that all 15 of those identified in Turkish security tapes will be publicly beheaded.
Meantime an ongoing investigation will continue to root out the identities of those who paid for this horrible operation.
MBS will be invited for a state visit to the US, where a new, 67 billion dollar arms sale will be inked.
Finis.
1
"In a shift on..." I see. We've now invented yet another new euphemism to accommodate the accordion-like features of a so-called leader who lies so often and in so many ways and never with any accountability that language itself must become endlessly elastic in order to hold it all in.
I don't fear DJT so much as I fear what has been unleashed in this country in aid of propping him up. I fear for the children --who are not, as our pols devoutly hope, deaf and blind--watching this debacle go down and wondering why the adults in their world do nothing to stop it. They are watching and we had better get smart PDQ about the lessons they're learning. If they see the POTUS daily lying and being rewarded for it, they have every right to believe it's a kosher strategy.
Without accountability, there is no recovery or coming back from this epic spree. And it is long long past time that we considered lying the damaging force it is. The founders set the bar too artificially high.
5,000 lies (now pushing 6,000) do far more damage than a one-time breach in judgment or single act of sabotage. I can think of few things more dangerous than normalizing lying. It is his go-to strategy, one trotted out for everything from the size of a crowd to a man dismembered with a hacksaw.
We are in pieces precisely because we continue with the transparent lie that lies aren't dangerous. That man and his untruthful henchmen are dismantling this nation before our eyes. When are we going to call foul?
7
As I read what Trump said about this, I thought that the text must have been edited. It seemed that he viewed this whole episode as an inconvience in his efforts to stage manage his presidency.
Then, I watched the reply. Yep, the text was accurate. Trump could not care less that Khashoggi was likely tortured and murdered. It’s annoying to him to have to share headlines . He’d rather have full attention on his rallies and on his base of miscreants and losers. One small addition item...the guy is utterly incapable of putting together a sentence , much less a paragraph.
7
The Saudi monarchy will just keep throwing foot soldiers under the bus until Trump has sufficient pretext to call the coverup a “thorough investigation”. Then it’s back to business as usual: trotting obediently at the heels of his master, in fear that the financial choke chain will be pulled tight again.
1
Trump will likely raise the prices on his real estate deals with the Saudis as punishment.
8
Regardless of how the mid-terms go, if the US Senate as a body does not put some serious checks on a US foreign policy being run by two NYC real estate punks, Trump and Kushner, and by Bolton and Pompeo we are in real trouble.
It is difficult for me to accept that these four men, all ill-suited for public service and 'maleducato', are being granted the power they weld by the American public and the US Senate.
If this quartet of schemers are allowed to carry on then we get what we deserve here at home - but many in other countries worldwide will also pay dearly for their feckless and corrupt actions.
10
Mr. Trump is a disgrace to humanity and a total embarassment to the world representing this country.
16
I wish the NYTs paid this much attention to the 4 murdered Americans in Benghazi as they are to a nephew of a Saudi Arms dealer, murdered on Saudi soil who magically became a journalist because he worked for an opinion piece at the Washington Post. What is next? A call for a special prosecutor? Nice try. Look for red wave in 19 days.
4
@Steve
They did.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/08/whopper-of-the-year...
Also, the cost estimates of Congressional hearings on Benghazi range from $8M to $20M.
1
Really, Benghazi again? Isn't that horse dead enough after the millions of dollars that were wasted in hearings and investigations? This is the right's response to every possible criticism of Trump - what about Hillary? It's like my dog barking every time the doorbell rings, a Pavlovian response.
1
Really? The chatter said he was to be lured - i cannot for the life of me, believe Trump was not briefed?
Why was Mr. Kashoghi not warned? And Trump's inciting violence of the press wasn't an enablement, a co-sign? An "OK, do whatever you want?" A man who spoke up for humanity, and voiced only moderate criticism of the country he loved, was tortured, tortured then murdered, and dismembered in an embassy!!?
Was this a trial run for MBS and Trumps foray into normalizing/desensitizing Americans to accept/bow to fascism and fear rule. America has the leverage and Trump mealy-mouth blathers? And Trumps high moral ground is money, money, blood money?
Steve, "nice try?"
Take all foreign aid to Saudi Arabia and pump it into Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid.
8
If you needed any further proof that Trump has no moral conscience, here it is: "This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately.”
That is all Khashoggi’s death represents to Trump. A successful spin cycle meme, along the lines of “lock her up” or "build that wall”, and is thus reduced to an "unfortunate" hassle to have to deal with. The deeper meaning of his courage and was brutally killed for standing up for moral principles - for freedom of speech - that his sacrifice echoes Patrick Henry’s “Give me liberty or give me death” - that countless American lives have been lost defending such moral principles, is completely lost on this poseur of American greatness. Without a moral ground on which to stand on, our nation stands for nothing. It represents the biggest betrayal of our founding fathers imaginable. Feel proud red states - feel very proud.
23
Anxiously awaiting the Saudi report on what happened because if anyone knows what occurred in the hen house, it would be the fox.
6
I hope this was an attempt at sarcasm, otherwise you really believe the Saudi report will be forthcoming? It's already been rumored that they plan to pin the murder on a general, whom I'm sure will be executed before being tried.
@Teresa
See my storyline above.
I'm sure it was sarcasm
The Washington Post is reporting that certain congressional Republicans are already conducting a smear campaign (anonymously of course) with their cohorts in the right wing media in an attempt to portray Khashoggi as a terrorist sympathizer. In order to do so, they have to disregard all context that would take into consideration his history as a journalist in Saudi Arabia. They will cherry pick whatever they need to cherry pick in order to destroy the reputation of a murder victim to help justify Donald's refusal to take meaningful action.
8
Last night the president praised a congressman who was convicted of assaulting a journalist as “my guy”. And we wonder why things like this happen.
23
Trump's comments show a complete and total lack of empathy. Does anyone think he cares about anyone other then himself and his immediate family?
7
Anyone in our divided America who remembers the biblical writing on the wall in the book of Daniel -- "Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin"? Today we are witnessing history repeating itself in President Trump's connivance with Mohammad bin Salman, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia. Our country --- under our most ignorant and unfit president -- is being led to a gaudy "Belshazzar's Feast" by Donald Trump. President Trump's days are numbered as were Belshazzar's, and he will reap Daniel's scathing judgment of the handwriting on the wall "you have been judged and found wanting".
6
It is still "only" a disappearance, not unlike those of Jimmy Hoffa or Amelia Erhart. Not that it is difficult to suppose and believe that Arabs butcher Arabs: They have been doing that for centuries.
As for claims made by this particular Turkish government, we need great lumps of salt with swallowing them. Just check recent NYT articles about this particular Turkish ruler.
2
That's not how our intelligence agencies seem to view it, and the comparisons to Jimmy Hoffa and Amelia Earhart are laughable. I don't recall any video footage of them entering a building from which they never emerged. Boy, that would have made the searches a lot easier.
Of course, now that the Saudis have picked their 'fall guy', he's saying Khashoggi is dead.
4
If only they had just "body slammed" the reporter, everything would be fine.
10
It is best for DJT to approach unfamiliar subjects such as truth, facts, and civility slowly and carefully.
11
"While Mr. Trump’s views appeared to be hardening, Mr. Kushner was still lobbying his father-in-law to stand by Prince Mohammed, arguing the scandal would eventually pass, according to two people who have had recent discussions with White House officials."
Not to be overlooked in Trump's reaction to this whole affair is the role of his son-in-law. Nepotism at its worst. One can only hope that the scandal of this White House will eventually
pass and that the country will recover its standing in the world.
7
If the NSA intercepted communications about luring Mr. Khashoggi from his Virginia home and detaining him, why didn't the United States warn him and protect him? Was "detaining" a journalist acceptable to our government, namely Mr. Trump? As in Saudi Arabia, this could not happen without his approval. Or did the NSA not intercept or not translate the intelligence about the plot until too late? Who in our government was at fault? We need to know. They have a word for a government that allows a journalist to be kidnapped. That word is fascist.
10
Could someone please inform Mr. pompeo that his "important counterterrorism partner" was responsible for sending 17 of the 19 9/11 hijackers. Or maybe this administration likes the Wahabbis.
22
Shorter Trump: “Yeah, Khashoggi is dead. Yeah, probably he was murdered by Saudi agents. But I do business with Saudi Arabia and make big money so I don’t care. They bought me fair and square.”
15
Trump doesn't care. One journalist's life means nothing to him compared to the money he makes off the Saudis.
13
Biding his time until the Saudis can concoct a story he can get behind and sell.
10
When your best friends, the ones you cultivate and coddle, are ruthless dictators and would-be or de facto mafiosos, this is what you get, because this is what they do. Trump knows that, and he likes the way they do business. The difference here is that it's all out in the open, and that it involves a victim who a lot of people care about. Trump will at least have to put on a show of caring what happened to Khashoggi, but it is his approach, too, to strike enemies vindictively and unfairly rather than working out disagreements in a civil way, so he fundamentally doesn't care. He is eager to obscure and bury facts because his world is a morass of ugliness, and he likes it that way, and he doesn't want anything to potentially impede it. Facts that come to light, after all, can indeed take characters like him down. There are Khashoggis all over Russia, North Korea, the Philippines, and Saudi Arabia. This Khashoggi just happens to be a victim whose suffering can attract attention. The Trumps of the world leave vast trails - superhighways - of victims in their wake, because they can, and because they aren't any better than that.
5
"This one has caught the imagination of the world"???? Are you guys serious. The "...imagination of the World". My God - the only thing we imagine is that we are at war. Liberal Democracy versus autocracy. This will be a fight to the death.
4
Don’t worry. The President only has power to assassinate (no due process, just a decision made in an Oval Office) American citizens off US soil if they are deemed an enemy of the people combatant journalist. Al-Awlaki probably wasn’t a good actor, but all human beings deserve due process outside of a battlefield. You are who your friends are...
2
When the President of the United States promotes a congressman who "body slams" a journalist, after a Washington Post Journalist is brutally murder in the Saudi embassy in Turkey. Then jokes about the congressman's behavior to the raucous, shameful laughter of the Montana crowd. Then let's make one thing perfectly clear. This election is not a referendum on Donald J Trump. It is a referendum on us, the electorate.
19
dt:
"This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately"
It's not important to our president that a human being was slaughtered, but instead its "unfortunate" that the world noticed.
Seriously...this guy has no morals. None.
17
Who'd think that the country backing bin Laden would do something like this?
8
Bin Ladin was public enemy number 1 to the Saudi Royal Family. I hate the Saudi government, but it’s simply not true that they backed Bin Ladin. Overthrowing the Saudi Royal Family was Bin Ladin’s highest priority.
@rubbernecking . Bin Laden was a bitter ENEMY of the Saudi regime and banned from the country.
Is the story really whether Trump jumps to condemn? I don't think so. Unfortunately, partisan media has decided otherwise.
The president said he'd wait until he had more information. That's the sanest response of all in what has turned into a feeding frenzy. The Saudis are an ally, whether the media wants to admit it or not. The president should tread carefully. Fortunately, he doesn't respond to media goading and carping.
The Saudis will have to contend with the backlash of their actions. Welcome to the Western stage.
4
The BBC the other day carried a listener call-in equating this non-judicial murder with Obama's killing of Osama bin Laden. This is going to get really ugly, with trolls from the Arctic to Antarctica inventing and spreading fanciful/gruesome stories. I'd bet there are several Hollywood types already at work on a film ... To quote Prof. Higgins: "I'd prefer a new edition of the Spanish Inquisition..." (the rest not relevant here).
1
And no one is even mentioning 9/11 anymore.
5
@DesertFlowerLV
After 9/11 the Saudis quietly took measures. They fired over 1,000 radical clerics among other things. Much has changed since then.
2
The butchering of Khashoggi is appalling. But Saudi war crimes in Yemen are more serious. Saudi war planes, refueled in the air by American jet tankers, have killed hundreds of thousands and may cause 18 million Yemenis to die of starvation.
The Saudis are worse than we think, and so are we.
24
Unfortunately we did not pay same attention to thousands of children killed by these Saudis in Yemen
15
@Zaigham
Because it's not really about this killing but rather about Trump. Again, his critics have turned it into a referendum on Trump that always ends the same way.
4
@AACNY Please! The world does not revolve around Trump.
1
Many of commenters here blame Mr. Trump’s behaviour. But, from my point of view, from the other side od the Pond, this POTUS is not the problem himself. The real problem is that part of American constituents (a minority indeed) who elected him. And an electoral system that let a minority to win an election. Pathetic.
20
“This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately,” Mr. Trump said in a brief interview with The New York Times in the Oval Office. “It’s not a positive. Not a positive.”
Trump obviously doesn't care one iota about the journalist who was killed. He doesn't care that the leadership of Saudi Arabia is implicated in a barbaric, premeditated torture-murder and mutilation. Trump is just lamenting the attention that has been paid to these abominations, which will force him to take actions he wouldn't otherwise take.
The "shift in the president’s tone" confirms news reports that there's a tape, and Pompeo has heard it. If the tape didn't exist, Trump could lie and deny what has happened. Drat!
He's despicable. Our "president" is despicable. All those people who voted for him because they thought the 2016 election was just one big, fun reality show should be ashamed.
20
Of course he rushes to the defense of a murderous Muslim dictator - who is rich and powerful - and attacks American women, who are not. He's hopelessly un-Christian and un-gentlemanly and evil.
Saudis given more time, more time to come up with some dirt on Khashoggi, just you watch. It'll be information gathered from dubious sources and the smear campaign will begin, starting from the oval office, they do it best.
5
Strange how the Saudi Crown Prince would believe the President of the United States would ignore the torture and killing of a journalist.
Not.
8
Long “strategic” relationship, especially 9/11.
6
I'm frankly shocked that HRC has NOT been indicted in this mess!
She must have a really good alibi.
8
Dear Americans,
For the same amount of time it takes you to post a comment here on this article, I urge you to use that time instead to call your representative in Congress and tell them that they need to stand up and demand that the White House withdraw its support to the war crimes being committed in Yemen by the Saudi coalition. Too many innocent civilians continue to die in Yemen at the hands of US-made bombs. Jobs created from the blood of innocent children are not worth it and your democratic rights need to be heard and exercised.
14
I thank god that I live in the United States of America where I have personal freedom as a birth right, where I have the freedom to say and write anything that I want, that I live in a country with a free press who have the right as well as the obligation to criticize the powerful. Freedom is the most important thing in this world, it is that desire for freedom that sends immigrants to our shores, that sends those fleeing small minded cruel despots, people that flee governments that control every aspects of their lives. Thank god for America, and thank god for the brave who gave their lives in war so that our country will always be free.
I feel sad for those who live under the boot of tyranny, whether it be a political system of tyranny or a religious one. Be brave, maybe one day you will know what freedom feels like. The United States must remain by its action, by its leaders , and by its people the beacon of freedom to the world.
2
Remember Daniel Pearl, an American citizen unlike Khashoggi who isn't. Let Turkey and the Saudis work it out. None of the USA business.
3
@Amsly
Cooler heads will prevail. The US and the Saudis will work it out. By then the Trump media will have moved on to his next big thing.
2
Not sure I understand the parallel. Daniel Pearl was killed by terrorists whilst he pursued an undercover story on a proven enemy of the US. He wasn’t murdered in the US consulate in Karachi by Navy Seals after he’s popped in to pick up some administrative documents.
1
“Miracle of all miracles”. What a bizarre remark, as if Jamal Khashoggi might yet prove to be the Lazarus of Saudi Arabia. I have the suspicion that both Mohammed bin Salman and Donald Trump wish that he was. Instead, someone not MSB is going “to have to take the fall,” to quote Humphrey Bogart’s Sam Spade in the Maltese Falcon. Safe bet that it won’t be MSB himself. I hope that at least a few of the people who voted for Trump are asking themselves how the USA ended up in the ongoing tragedy that is the Trump Administration and will now do what they can to bring some sanity back.
2
The West - Saudi Arabia's main backers since their 'appointment' of the House of Saud after defeating the Ottoman Empire in WW1 - is 'voting' against MbS as heir.
This is not mainly because of the mafia-style Kashoggi hit, but that was the Last Straw. It represents the epicentre of an earthquake caused by the shifting tectonic plates of the Middle East (which Kashoggi himself well described) at the end of the Syrian War (a century after WW1) that The West and Saudi Arabia have lost to Russia and Iran, with Turkey (the rump of the Ottoman Empire) switching sides at the last moment.
Kushner, the Crown Prince of the USA directing ME policy, thought his opposite number in the Kingdom had succeeded in his own coup, but forgets the 358 princes and other billionaires who were this time last year locked and shaken down in the luxury prison about to host Davos in the now very deserted Desert.
Kashoggi was brutally and symbolically whacked because he represented what seemed to MbS a lone final voice calling for an alliance of external and internal forces against last year's Kushner-sponsored coup.
But in his death the martyr has won.
MbS is now being shown the exit. The American Crown Prince is wrong to think, or wish and argue, that his co-conspirator can weather the storm, but 'unfortunately' may himself survive to further damage the Middle East and wider New World Disorder that he and his slightly demented dad, the aging nominal ruler, have themselves largely created.
4
Khashoggi is a secular martyr for the cause of human dignity around free expression and speaking truth to power.
For his death, the Saudis government must pay a steep price, for they are guilty, or, excuse me, negligent.
Using civil, not criminal, levels of evidence for determining "guilt," then a preponderance of evidence already shows the Saudi government lost control of Khashogi's body and is therefore negligent in his death.
Given what the Turks have revealed, and the fact that Khashoggi didn't return to his fiance, the journalist is either dead, or imprisoned in Saudi Arabia. Under Civil levels of evidence, the Saudi's are negligent in his disappearance.
Hopefully, as penance for this allegedly heinous act, the United Nations/ World Criminal Court, etc.should press for a legal finding and force the Saudi's to fund a one billion dollar endowment to support journalism that advances free speech, human rights the world wide, and speaks truth to power.
This would dignify Khoshoggi's death.
5
Tonight the President of the United States praised a Montana congressman who was convicted of attacking a journalist. The man had knocked the reporter to the ground, breaking his glasses. Trump said, “He bodyslammed him” and “He’s my type of guy.”
In his campaign Trump bragged that he gained financially (“40 million”) from the Saudis so he liked them.
Trump and his son-in-law have personally praised and befriended Saudi Crown Prince MBS.
And now additionally maybe Trump’s reticence to condemn MBS for ordering the torture and killing of a recent US resident/Saudi dissident is simply the fact that it was a Washington Post journalist that was murdered.
8
Men kill men throughout history. It's often criminal, too often abusive, sometimes business-related, but very rarely an event that precipitates a geopolitical event.
The U.S. should let the Khashoggi disappearance go, just as our friends have understood through the years that American justice is just that: and Saudi justice is up to Saudis.
And the last thing Americans need to do is lecture our Great Saudi Friends on how they deal with internal dissent and rebellion.
3
Like the police chief in Casablanca, trump is “shocked, shocked” to find out his despotic models are killling journalists he called “enemies of the people.” MBS and others must be confused. Trump labeled journalists enemies. MBS killed their mutual enemies.
Culpability rests entirely with “I didn’t say that” trump whose words were believed and those dictators who consider the trump words a license to kill, rape, intimidate and harrass the fourth estate.
2
Trump is complicit in this murder. He has consistently diminished and vilified journalists and sent strong signals that he considers them 'enemies' and therefore legitimate targets. Now he is reaping the consequences of his own actions. This is part of a disturbing pattern. Every dictator in history has risen to power in part by targeting and subduing the press. America is supposed to be a beacon of democracy in a world where dark forces are constantly working to undermine the best elements of this ideal. Freedom of the press to do their work is an absolute foundation of the democratic model, on a par with an independent judiciary. Trump's hounding and vilification of the press is possibly the lowest point of his Presidency, along with his equally hostile attitude towards environmental issues. It exposes his psychopathic tendencies more clearly than anything else.
16
It seems unimportant whether the king or one of his subordinates made the choice. This wasn't a lone actor, but instead a highly organized state action to brutally assassinate one of its own citizens for speaking his mind.
7
Given the Saudis likely got away with 9/11 depending on how you want to interpret it, perhaps an about-turn in overtime here to bring this monster to heel is the real miracle. It's the Saudis destroying Yemen and the Iranians defending, much like they did in Syria. Maybe it's finally time to face the real evil in the region.
7
Rather slow coming around, aren't you Mr. President? Getting closer to finalizing your story as to the death of Mr. Khashhoggi. It is difficult for Trump to tell the truth, especially when he is being forced by some of his GOP pals in Congress, but more truthfully by our press as well as the world's media. Maybe there is a lesson after all here for our self-appointed genius POTUS: truth can be a powerful weapon for a politician, if he knows how to use it, which for Trump has never been his forte.
7
So, let's parse this.
US national intelligence agencies disagree.
And according to this article, the director of national intellligence is conflicted about how to package an intelligence report to the White House--seemingly whether to present differing conclusions from different agencies or whether to ignore conclusions from the Central Intelligence Agency.
All of this, apparently ignoring the fact that intelligence agencies must have had credible indications of the potential danger to Khashoggi (and other journalists) well in advance of the brutal murder.
And why? To pander to despotism and totalitairanism? The corruption of this administration is systemic, endemic, and irrefutable. And terrifying.
7
@Nereid
Dan Coats has his work cut out for him. Whatever he finds will have to be reduced to something a developmentally challenged kindergartner would understand. He knows that Trump doesn't want answers. He wants excuses to let the Saudis off the hook no matter what.
6
The Saudis could bankrupt Donald Trump by demanding refunds of the apartment purchases, selling apartments well below market value, demanding immediate payment of their loans and refusing to stay at Trump hotels.
8
No hiding behind your tidy Resolute desk Mr. President or flying off to your rallies, this is an issue of such magnitude that obfuscation and simplicity will be empty and revealing of your missing character.
11
In the haze of trump era corruption, money trumps morals every time, so far with no consequences.
7
Too little, too late.
The US should have stood with Canada when Canada spoke out against the jailing of women's rights advocate Samar Badawi and other human rights activists in Saudi Arabia a few months ago.
Canada stood alone at that time, even as Saudi Arabia lashed out with reprisals for that stance.
But the US was silent then, and now, a writer who championed political freedom of expression has been killed, but Trump is STILL loathe to condemn the Saudi prince, even though the goons who did this had direct connections to the prince.
In failing to clearly and immediately condemn the killing of Jamal Khashoggi, Trump is basically taking the position that dirty Saudi oil money is more important than human rights and democracy.
Never mind that this is a disservice to human rights activists in the Arab world ... the fact that a president and his cohorts would have so little regard for democracy itself is something that should worry Americans.
11
"No, I meant bring him to me in peace, not in pieces." - "Of course, that is a natural mistake, it could happen to anybody. Mike will help sort this out. Now look at this brochure and the beautiful pictures of the latest missiles and fighters. We'll give you a really good deal, no strings attached."
5
There is a direct line of responsibility to the White House for this act. This administration has attacked the media incessantly and this is an obvious result. Could someone please ask the President to explain "“This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately,”? Why is it unfortunate that we are asking questions? Are you having a hard time controlling the narrative this time?
9
“This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately.” - Trump
When is it going to molt its outer layer from behind the POTUS podium and reveal its true form? Just get it over with so that I can finally stop pretending there will be an end to this insanity. Molt! So that what you say will finally fit your form.
Unfortunately, This one has also caught the imagination of the world.
3
“This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately…”
Why is it unfortunate?
That someone was brutally killed and dismembered, or that the issue won’t go away?
7
I do not know what Mr President will do reading this news item,but he should understand that in any murder/killing the evidence is always circumstantial.If he believes that there is no evidence to suggest King's direct involvement he is trying to save him from the charge of murder.About 15 people had come from Saudi Arabia at the place where Mr Khashoggi was called at 1.15PM and his fiancee did not see him coming out until the night.What does this indicate?If trade is more important than human rights for the President of the richest country in the world,we will have to change the definition of Human rights.
3
Another aspect seems to have been forgotten here: using a consulate in a host country to carry out the deed. All the foreign ministers of all nations have to wonder what could happen in such places if the Saudis can get away with this. That means: first a real trial, public. Testimony, even by the actual actors, if they are still alive (frequently the dispatchers are themselves dispatched to leave no witnesses). Who ever is really guilty (in the sense of the Nurnberg trials, i.e. of giving the orders) must be punished severely (in S.A. the death penalty still exists, in Turkey no longer). What person in his/her right mind would enter a Saudi consulate today, anywhere in the world?
8
The jet carrying a/the hitman to Ankara took off within 9 minutes of Khashoggi entering that building. If it was a rogue agent, he was as connected as any could be.
The gov't wanted him dead whether MbS did or not.
But no one seems to be out front deciding whether a murder or two are worth seeing Wahabbism lose its hold on the Saudi dynasty.
As many terrorists are or have been funded by Wahabbis, what's to say terrorism wouldn't come to Riyadh during such a loss of influence?
2
If we knew how much Saudi money was invested in Trump/Kushner real estate, it could explain why Trump is reticent to assign blame. The arms deal isn't his biggest concern, "unfortunately."
10
It is too easy to say Trump is doing the wrong thing when you have a agenda against him and do not give him a benefit of the doubt.
If there were no other issues and it was proven that the Royal family had Jamal Khashoggi killed than it would be obvious what Trump has done is wrong.
We know there other issues and we have evidence but we do no know definitively who killed him.
The people with a agenda that is against Trump will use any excuse to
demand his impeachment and will ignore everything that would justify
his actions.
I believe he has to see the big picture and say as little as possible about this killing.
As far as I can see this is what he has tried to do and he gets my support.
This can change but until it does those who hate him should stop attacking him because when they do so they help Trump as a majority in the country agree with me and will become sympathetic towards him which most likely will not make people like me to come out and vote for Trump it can convince us to stay home and they have nothing to gain.
The Democrats will not beat Trump if the best they do is to attack him.
2020 is only 2 years away and the best the Democrats have as possible Presidential candidates are ones who are either almost 70 or are older.
The Democrats have to get together and pick a leader.
Right now they do not have one and to be frank I have given up hope that they will ever find one and now believe Trump will win in 2020.
1
Is that a joke? The US spy agency planned the whole matter, together with Turkey and Qatar, his excellency the Saudi Arabia ambassador to the US Khaled Ben Salman under direct orders from his brother MBS, and even his Turkish fiance had a part in the plot. The full story is everywhere on the web for days now, including photos of the deceased's members, arms, genitals, skinned skull and his FACE!! Even the confessions of the Saudi Consulate clerk (who witnessed the crime) to the AMERICAN investigators and who is right now safe in their custody !! Isn't that right ?
Whether or not Khashoggi is dead, the United States must
view his death as an internal Saudi Affair.
And one that might warn other Saudi dissidents to keep their place in line as they remember that they do not speak for their country, and likely viewed as actively working against it.
The Saudi Monarchy is allowed its own system of justice, and no other personal or nation in the world has the right to challenge it any level.
3
@Rolf
You're wrong. Dead wrong. Pun intended.
Diplomatic nonsense aside, this happened in Turkey, not in Saudi Arabia, where it would have gone unnoticed.
4
@Rolf
If Trump had come down hard on the Saudis, all his critics would now be complaining he was starting a war there.
1
@matty The Saudi embassy is considered Saudi, no matter where it is. Even in the U.S.A., the Saudi embassy is beyond the reach of America laws. Walk into a U.S. based Saudi embassy and you might be executed. Khashoggi knew better!
Saudis are bad, no doubt, but the U.S.A. fully supports them. And this dates back decades.
Trumpletons are bad, no doubt, but the U.S.A. fully supports them too. And the Trumpletons have been running the show for decades.
The only intelligence report that Trump seems capable of understanding would be a line drawing that looks like "hangman". His folded arm body language and shifting but predictable obfuscating statements indicate he is continuing to lie about what he knows. This is not leadership; it's close to nothing but a narcissist's desire to be asked what he thinks. But Trump does not think; he just reacts. In this instance, he's giving the Saudis additional time to cover their tracks. Where's the body?
24
@lb
Sorry lb, but your side got beat two years ago.
Eventually you're going to have to adjust to the loss, even if Hillary never does.
Trump is a good man doing a wonderful job getting people employed. We have more jobs open than workers abailable. Who ever heard of that before?
This just in: few people care whether he is polite or crude or whatever.
1
We care. Believe me.
It’s an odd phenomenon, agreeing with the president about something. Now that he seems to have moved on from his “Brett Kavanaugh defense” of the Saudis (“Here we go again with, you know, ‘you’re guilty until proven innocent,’”), he’s admitting that this torture and murder might indeed be the fault of his close allies.
But the president’s words are...so vacant. This grisly political murder of a journalist is “bad, bad stuff.” “It’s not a positive. Not a positive.” He knows all of this because of the “best” intelligence.
Being an eloquent speaker shouldn’t be a prerequisite for political office, not even for the highest executive office. But I don’t believe Mr. Trump’s response indicates merely a lack of eloquence. I believe that the man is incapable of categorizing things as anything more than the simplest version of good or bad. He seems to have no way of incorporating nuance, or being able to hold complex relationships in his head.
It’s just like with people, where he heaps praise on those he likes and invents childish names for those he doesn’t. All concepts exist in binary for this man. I’m not really saying anything groundbreaking here. But I find it fascinating that, even when he (seems to) takes a position on a rather simple moral question, the way he expresses himself still feels wrong. At least to me.
35
Can’t you just hear this on the phone—
Trump to King Salman: You need to cut Mohammed bin Salman loose.
The King to Trump: I’ll give Mohammed the ritual saber when you cut off Don Jr and Jared.
12
World demands from USA to show leadership, World needs America to step up to the plate. If America is that shiny city on the hill to which president Kennedy referred, then President Trump needs to hold Saudis accountable. It is time to use the stick, not the carrots.
9
@Qubad MALIK Millions of Americans agree with you and have been horrified by our current so-called president ever since he started his disastrous presidency.
2
@Qubad MALIK
Leadership is exactly what the president is showing. Leaders don't jump. They wait for all the information. And they deal with despots, if they can, discreetly. After all, it's effectiveness we're after here, not big flashy displays of hubris.
1
Who cares what Trump thinks? The result will be the same anyway. Trump said so himself. He is not going to sacrifice weapons for human rights. His nation is a mercenary, supplying the highest bidder. End of story.
14
At a conference in Washington DC, on November 10, 2016, Jamal Khashoggi openly critiqued the Middle East policies of then president-elect Donald Trump. Khashoggi labelled them “contradictory.” Around the same time, Khashoggi also offered muted criticism of Trump in the Washington Post. Within two weeks, Khashoggi was banned from Saudi Arabian media. Admittedly, Khashoggi was strongly allied with Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, and that put him on the wrong side of an intense feud within the Saudi royal family. Still, the pretext for the ban — Donald Trump — remains striking. An American president-elect repeatedly derided the press. The Saudi regime sought to curry favor with the new Trump regime by silencing a journalist. Thus, Jamal Khashoggi's eventual death can be traced back to Trump in some measure. It's hard to imagine a more damning situation for the Trump administration, but it does explain why, beyond the arm sales, the administration has been so clearly reluctant to act.
258
@kaw7 Certainly a new low for the Trump administration and for the United States. Writers for the NY Times and Washington Post need to pay close attention to the potential ramifications of this event.
1
@kaw7 & of course, no consequences for the Apricot Perp.
@kaw7
I believe Kushner knew in advance that there was a "mission" to kidnap and interrogate Khashoggi. This time however MSB did not tell his friend Kushner that their plans included murder.
MSB had already executed similar missions in taking Saudi businessmen hostage and and even abducting the president of Lebanon neither of which saw protest from the White House.
The intelligence services have intercepts of MENA officials mocking the gullibility of Kushner , and now the Saudis ( and perhaps the UAE too as one of the planes stopped in Dubai on its return) have him as an accomplice to murder.
Kushner's defense that the Saudis didn't say they were going to kill Khasshoggi hardly counts as absolution. And if the Saudis taped any of the communications with Kushner they will blackmail him for the rest of his life which may have been the goal than the murder of Khashoggi, a "mere journalist".
Kushner has not even dared issue a statement yet he is the White House official official in charge of the Middle East. Aren't the American people if not the world owed an opinion by the US official most involved in this part of the world? The responsibility is daunting in and of itself but magnified when one considers that Trump has never bothered to even nominate ambassadors to Turkey or Saudi Arabia. Trump and Kushner would never let some political appointees stand in the way of all the existing and future business with the Saudi Royals.
I no longer look to the President for authority on these matters- who cares what he thinks or opines l? He’s unreliable.
10
I find it very strange that people are now trying to lay the blame for this incident on POTUS. Probably many of you will soon claim that Trump ordered the killing.
The fact is that in the middle east this type of thing is not new. From Palestinians murdering Jews, to these nations fighting each other. Khashoggi new he was being targeted. Where is your outrage about the deaths and dissapearances of journalists and lawyers in China who are killed for investigating the Chinese government and it's officials. The same happens in lot's of countries the USA does business with. I think the USA should just shutdown all trade with the middle east and China altogether. Especially since we now know the Chinese have been installing hardware chips shipped to the USA and other countries that allow Chinese to spy and steal information from those computers with these motherboards installed.
2
The Killing of a Washington Post author has brought to the attention of many how problematic is the US-Saudi alliance. The Saudi nobility sees itself as the guardian of the true muslim faith. They are instead bigot rulers violently promoting an extremist and intolerant branch of Islam. Simply remember that prying at the prophet's grave is strictly forbidden, a religious police controlling the prohibition, and that the Saudi considered some decades ago to destroy the prophet's grave so as to ensure nobody pray there. The Saudi bigotry is the root of Al Qaeda and similar movements. The Saudi bigotry is a cause of serious tension in the region and in the world because in the Saudi world view Shia muslim are heretics who deserve death. No peace can be build on such premises. The USA and other countries must acknowledge that for otherwise they'll be trapped in endless problems. An alliance with the Saudis aiming at promoting democracy in Iran does not make sense because the Saudi are persecuting Shia muslims in Arabia and in Yemen. An alliance with the Saudis against Iran is not much different in spirit of what would have been an Alliance with Hitler's Germany.
4
Now, predictably, Trump is saying that he “hardly knew” the dark prince Mohammed bin Salman.
Next we’ll hear him claiming that “young Jared“ really had very little to do with the prince either.
16
"“This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately,” Mr. Trump said in a brief interview with The New York Times in the Oval Office." This quote is from today's article in the NYT's. Can anyone, anyone at all, please explain why the president of the United States is saying that the dastardly assassination of Jamal Khashoggi has "UNFORTUNATELY" caught the imagination of the world? Would it have been more "fortunate" for everyone to have let it slip by as they have in large measure let the humanitarian crisis in Yemen slip by? I am appalled by the lack of moral fiber revealed by Donald Trumps' statement, appalled beyond the pale words I can write here, or for that matter anywhere.
21
@Daniel K. Statnekov Absolutely spot on assessment. That choice of wording is bizarre in the extreme and most revealing of his true feelings.
6
@Daniel K. Statnekov That word "unfortunately'" tacked on the end of Trump's sentence struck me the same way. Upon reading it, I immediately read it again to decipher it's meaning and yes, it definitely , for me, made the only sense it could possibly mean : he's not happy that "this one has caught the imagination of the world", unfortunately for him, that is, because it threatens to bungle the nice, cozy deal he and his avaricious, morally bankrupt family has with the Saudis. Who cares what he, Jared and their families think of the Saudis' extracurricular activities such as a little bit of assassination of a Washington Post journalist and U.S. resident?! By all accounts it was quick and swift, those bone saws work real good. Why, they even had the very best man for the job, that doctor, to get the job done so beautifully. What's all the fuss about? This doesn't change anything. The Saudis are my great friends! The Art of The Deal has been extremely lucrative. Bigly!!!
4
From reports I have read, Jared Kushner, Mohammed bin Salman's bosom buddy, is trying to convince Trump that this will all blow over, which is more wishful thinking than grounded in reality. One of the lessons to be learned is that representatives of the U.S. government should not develop such personal relationships with foreign figureheads because of the potential for conflicts of interests. In this case, we have an American amateur in the White House linking up with a Saudi Arabian bumbler.
14
Trumps attacks the press, goading his base to attack and his constant barrage at the press has come home to roost. Perhaps he is an accessory, certainly this Prince thought he had a wink and a nod. He almost got away with it. Turkey cried foul.
Munchin refers to the CRown Prince as having the “Kavanaugh defense.”- that being a guilty person not being held accountable for lack of physical evidence. Kavanaugh has his own little special place jurisprudence lexicon already.
5
"Mr. Pompeo said on Thursday that the United States would give the Saudis a few more days to conduct their investigation.”
What investigation? They are just waiting for Mr. Pompeo to let them know what exactly the Turks know about the heinous murder they committed in their embassy, so they can put together a story that could cover all the bases.
15
What a good and noble man Donald Trump is! He is OK with body-slamming reporters to the ground, but draws the line at mutilation and dismemberment.
11
“This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately”
— Donald Trump
The UNFORTUNATE aspect of this affair is that Jamal Khashoggi has been brutally tortured and killed. To construe this as simply a bad day in US—Saudi relations is missing the key point. A nation which violates the rights of its citizens in such an appalling fashion has no legitimacy.
Until his killers are brought to justice, every human being of conscience is in that impromptu torture chamber in the Saudi ambassador’s office.
9
Trump is dragging this murder out because he's afraid to lose all that Saudi money for himself. Always put self above country.
7
"Unfortunately", even for Trump, reality, eventually, rules. So this barbarity affected how most people behave and think. It "caught the imagination of the world"? Oh man, how inconvenient can morality be? Like all the Yemenis, dead or dying, hasn't? Come on November elections!
13
"Mr. Kushner has argued that the crown prince can survive the outrage just as he has weathered past criticism."
Jared, have some ethics! It's not about what the Prince can weather or get away with, it's about RIGHT vs WRONG! Your bro is a murderer!
14
Too late for him to get ethics!
That’s not a consideration, obviously,
in this Administration.
6
Here is a good opportunity for Mr. Trump to prove that he does't care about $100 billion deal, when it comes to take a stand against such a horrible crime. Any eye-washing punishment would be back fired. Only a severe punishment against the Saudis can silence the critics and would help elevate Mr. Trump's image globally.
1
Trump's comments are despicable and beyond evil . Yes murdering and dismembering an esteemed Washington Post columnist entering a Saudi consulate to obtain marriage papers and never leaving it caught the public imagination. This was unfortunate?
Yes Donald it was one of the most hideous and odious
acts ever committed in an embassy.
Your comments are worthy of the Fascist despots you emulate who strut on the stage with lies and conspiracies and demagoguery. I suggest that the American public reject your disgusting persona, hateful rhetoric, policies benefiting the ruling elite and vote your shameless Republican enablers out of Office and start impeachment and then your criminal indictment for your multitudinous crimes.
Even that will not be enough to restore our democracy and wipe out the shame and stench that you represent. But it is a start. America please arise out of Patriotism and love of country not party!
308
@IN You are absolutely right. The only recourse the American people have to this situation is to go to the polls in November are vote out Trump puppets and enablers like Cruz and Nunes.
Trump, as usual, is late to the party. Why would anyone want to associate ( government, business or personal) with these Saudi murderers....over a given in this country: free speech. The bad actors need to be held accountable...and the Prince replaced.
3
President Trump said:
"This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately,”
Unfortunately?? Really? What, it is unfortunate that the world is watching you and the other wanna-be despots? No, Mr. Trump, what is unfortunate is that a human being was murdered by the state that he was a citizen of, while his wife waited outside the embassy for him!!
5
“This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately,” In Trump speak, that means too much bad publicity. "It was still “a little bit early” translation: We have to figure a way out of this mess, but if we stall, we can put a spin on it like we did Kavanaugh. "I mean, it's bad, bad stuff." Translation: I have to be careful exactly how I phrase this. I can't use the same language that I use against women or Mexicans, or immigrants or journalists (though I think I'll throw a few punches at them tonight at the rally). "Unless the miracle of all miracles happens". Translation: I'll ask Pat Robertson to cover for me.
3
Oh, the irony of it all! Mike Pompeo calls the Saudis who committed an act of terror on foreign soil an “important counterterrorism partner.” The Bedouins are friends to nobody, not even to each other, as history has proved over and over again. One only has to read the memoirs of T.E.Lawrence, a.k.a Lawrence of Arabia, to realize that only ignoramuses imagine that they understand, let alone are able to manage the complex web of shifting alliances and ancient grudges that dominate the Arab landscape.
8
If the US, the richest and the most powerful country in the world can not take a principled stand on the fear of loss of business, can we blame other countries when they give in to Terrorism or promote Terrorism for their own self interest? Then let us not lecture others on values if money is the only guiding factor.
6
“They’ve been a very good ally and they’ve bought massive amounts of various things and investments in this country, which I appreciate,”
By 'this country' Trump of course means 'his company'.
Which is why he's so reluctant to say anything negative about the Saudis.
8
Am I just being paranoid or is that a knock on my door at six in the morning?
The lying by all sides of this issue insures a dangerous outcome no matter what.
Trump is going to support the lie that a high level intelligence official is responsible for the murder of Khassogi.
That will leave us with a dangerous chemistry between Trump and the Saudi Crown Prince.
This is not just status quo....it is an escalation in the level of Trumps bad judgment.
This acceptance of an authoritarian modus operandi covering for a krypto fascist president along with the solidly right wing Court and Congress can only spell doom for anyone who still believes in the possibility of an humane America.
I’m glad I live here!
10
While at the same time GOP operatives and hard-liners are starting a smear campaign against Khashoggi . It seems that if they can paint him in dark enough colors, murder doesn't matter.
5
The Saud family has run its course. It’s time to let them crumble. This family will never ever be a positive player. All they do is play with money and kill people and communities. It’s an absolute shame to be allied with thugs and mafias. Don’t worry the Saudis have to keep pumping their oil or else they will starve. What other income do they have?
5
The NSA doesn't think the evidence is conclusive.
The NSA that now has members of Cambridge Analytica working for them (under its new name Emirata) -- that one?
4
15 of the original 19 terrorists from 9/11 attack were from Saudi Arabia. Is oil so important that we can flush every value that we have as a country down the drain? What have we become?
5
The most appalling thing to me is Kushner advising that this is just a scandal that will pass. This grandson of a holocaust survivor is OK with the torture and murder of a good man who was trying to do good for his country.
I hope both MBS and Kushner lose power. They can fall from power as swiftly as they rose.
377
@lkos Of course scandals pass. Just look at his dad Charlie. He was convicted of and served time (18 months) for tax evasion, witness tampering and illegal campaign donations.
And yet, Charlie's 'back in business' running Kushner Companies, no doubt with some 'assistance' from junior.
So yes, scandals do pass.
4
As you are well aware JK was not elected to public office but obvious & devious nepotism put him where he is, he serves no ones interests except the corrupt family he was born into and the second one he married into, his day of reckoning is close, very close.
2
@lkos There is nothing special about Kushner. He was born into wealth, like his master, and elevated by his master to a position that he unqualified for in experience and intelligence.
Concur, as another wrote, this is sickening. Another day of sickening sickening sickening. Let's hope, let's act that Nove 6th won't be as sickening.
4
The Sauds will find a scapegoat but before that they gotta ask the Turks what do they want.
1
Oh please...this tragedy is over. The Saudis will finger their general as the "fall-guy," no one will ever see Khashoggi again, and U.S. defense contractors will not tolerate a ban on weapon sales (neither will many congresspeople who want to maintain jobs in their communities). Yes, some folks will not go to the big investor, "Davos in the Desert" conference, but they will all be making deals online and return to the cash-cow in the long run.
An average ten beheadings a day, some with obligatory crucifixion, fifteen-of-nineteen 9/11 hijackers being Saudi Arabians, and a single-day, bone-saw, blood-spattering murder-plus-consulate-room-repaint are 'trump'-change when it comes to the need for perpetual war and U.S. jobs. The U.S. tolerates guns and murder everyday; in fact the mass-media glorifies such occurrences, so what makes anyone believe this simply will not go away and we will not return to business-as-usual? Look for scapegoat (fall-guy + bogus narrative); the possible reappointment of yet another Saudi Prince (minus any move towards a constitutional monarchy) and, of course, more "bombs bursting in air." Our flag will still be there.
7
Trump makes it clear, even to those still benighted, that he has no idea what he's doing -- to us, our nation and planet.
6
Another brilliantly grotesque quote from the commoner-in-chief: "This one has caught the imagination of the world, UNFORTUNATELY." [Capital letters are mine.] Yes, how unfortunate. If only the world had chosen to ignore it, the way it has so far seemed to ignore the systematic destruction of Yemen by Saudi Arabia, with weapons bought from the United States. Now, that's not a positive. It's just a horrendous reality.
8
Trump is the coward of cowards. He sold his money decades ago and now he is selling America's soul.
The smearing of Khashoggi - the murdered journalist himself - is already brewing in right-wing media and among those diehard Trump members of the GOP. How else to 'correct the optics' of this crisis but to blame the dead man?
8
To me,what is odd is that be Khashoggi wasn't saying anything remarkable. He had the mildest kinds of criticism of the kingdom, calling for a "free press". No one takes that idea seriously. We have cartel press on the U S. Our cartel press criticizes almost every other country in the world, stating that the others don't have "free press". So why would his statements trouble the Saudis? And if he was a Palestinian sympathizer, so what? He's becoming a pundit, to make a living in the West? Someone in the Saudi entourage must be very paranoid. And the intelligence service might be creating it's own echo chamber. Are there not enough real challenges and dangers to keep the Intel agencies busy? Propaganda and press relations should not be in the same intelligence operation as that which is charged with protecting the state from it's enemies.
2
The eloquence of Trump: regarding the the Khashoggi case "it's not a positive. Not a positive. . . . I mean it's bad, bad stuff." The Saudi's are important allies because they've "bought massive amounts of various things," which Trump appreciates. This Khashoggi case has "taken on a bigger life than it would normally have taken on."
His loyalty to his friends and allies knows no bounds. Having given an excuse to the man who denied having a role in the Khashoggi case—that his disappearance was the result of rogue operatives who booked a room at the consulate to practice a magic disappearing trick and couldn’t make him reappear—and having chastised all doubters for not considering the Prince innocent until proven guilty, now says he barely knew Mohammed and plays down Jared's ties to the Saudi royal: they're not all that tight. His former attorney is a "low life" and a former squeeze now has a "horse face"—eloquent and loyal!
His reserve in keeping his opinions to himself until all the facts are in is unparalleled. He is guarded, cautious, no "Lock him up" ranting, in part because this Khashoggi thing is going to pose a bigger challenge to Trump than other issues . . . perhaps issues like campaigning in Montana or the FBI building snafu.
Just a few of my favorite things about him. Eloquent, loyal, reserved. So dignified. So presidential.
I fear for my country and for those who can no longer see the US as a loyal ally or their only hope.
3
So now we read that the Saudis are "considering assigning blame" to a high ranking intelligence official. He may be guilty. Is he really the end if the chain? Who knows? He will almost assuredly get a quick dispatch, acquiesence guaranteed by the alternatives presented for his family's future.
Trump of course will accept that a 15 man operation was carried out on the authority of this guy and that he never involved the Crown Prince. If you believe that one, there's s bridge for sale.
8
A crown prince allegedly can get away with eliminating opposition voices within his country. However, at this instance, it became an international issue and may be, a long time ally with mutual financial and regional power benefits will finally come to help.
In this country, our president can try to shut the opposition voices by calling it ‘fake news’. He can also boast in the campaign that he can kill on Broadway and will not loose a single vote. The executive branch has successfully bullied the the legislative branch with Republican majority in both houses and have similarly consolidated position even in the judiciary branch resulting in dividing the nation.
A good democracy means governance by the majority but taking due care of its minorities and not bullying them and demonizing them to try to cling to power (seemingly diminishing in the world).
In the coming weeks people will once again get a chance to use the constitutional right to vote and decide what path the country takes.
6
A brutal, barbaric, abominable murder of an ambushed and innocent journalist by Saudi State thugs has "...caught the imagination of the world...". What civilized person, let alone a President of the United States, speaks like this? Did our Fake President think that he was describing the spectacular eruption of a long dormant volcano somewhere in the world? This emotionally impoverished individual lacks even an ounce of human empathy and, moreover, feels no shame or embarrassment about publicly revealing it. Sad.
12
If career diplomats had been assigned the posts of US Ambassador to Saudi Arabia and US Ambassador to Turkey (when Trump axed the ones in place) I am betting this may never have happened. These buddy-buddy personal relationships in lieu of professional career diplomats, which this administration appears to prefer, blurs lines and encourages excess - it's very banana republic.
7
To use historical precedent; who was responsible for the death of Thomas Becket? The men who used the swords, or the King who gave the order.
4
"In Shift?" after 2 plus years, it's been apparent for a long time he has no real position on anything, except self-promotion.
4
Before Trump "travels" to Montana?
According to NPR, Trump is going to Montana to give one of his rallies--to fend off the reality of how badly he is doing as President & falsely support his gargantuan ego by lying and bragging to his base.
Does his campaign pay for these ridiculous rallies or do our tax dollars?
10
Trump does not have easy choices in this situation. However, this one is really on him, as he and Jared Kushner were instrumental in hoisting this crown prince, who's proven to be unfit for the job. Plus, he's only 33, and I worry about him causing some huge disaster.
6
Let us recall the role of Saudis in 9/11, namely all of it.
Instead of going after Saudi Arabia for that our genius president attacked Iraq to settle a grudge that he had going back to his daddy and totally upset the balance in the region and empowered Iran.
11
Ah yes, an "important counterterrorism partner," mostly after sending us 15 of the 19 Wahhabi hijackers on 9/11. .... Then again, they have bought "so many things" from us. That's all that matters, apparently. The United States has sold WMDs, at one point or another, to every nation in the Middle East; including and especially Iran.
The reference by Kashoggi to the Iron Curtain is critical, for those of us old enough to have traveled through the ex-Soviet satellites. The "Prince" is only beginning his reign of terror at home. And how many hijackers will he send next time we displease him, in some way?
9
It's surprising why the rest of the world is not asking for the tapes to be released from within the Consulate. That should provide clear conclusive evidence that the murder either happened or didn't happen within the Consulate.
4
Does anyone genuinely believe that President Trump will take a principled approach to this whole issue? The fact that the "Kavanaugh Defence" is being used to dismiss facts which implicate the Crown Prince says a lot already.
15
I already see how this is how this is going to play out. US will throw human rights' violations out of the window and continue to support Saudi Arabia. Because that is the biggest way they can counter Iran. Demonization of Iran will continue, friendships with Saudi Arabia will continue.
4
The most infuriating aspect of Trump is his deliberate refusal to clarify for us, the citizens of the U.S., exactly WHY he reacts like this.
4
I never expected another president in my lifetime to make Nixon appear comparatively less awful. Wrong!
12
@Jim Steinberg Nixon was not a terrible president. He actually did many things that benefited the US and its citizens until paranoia, ego and hubris got the better of him. And even though he could have claimed an exemption to the draft on the grounds of being a Quaker he sought a commission in the Navy.
There is no comparison, and no similarity between him and the current tenant of the White House but for the word impeachment.
"This one caught the attention of the world, unfortunately." Yeah, sure, THAT's what the problem is. Not that Saudi's clearly closely associated w/the Crown Prince decided to murder and chop up a journalist who was living in the U.S. writing for WAPO, because he wanted to be free to criticize the Saudi government (including its alliance with Trump, and Trump himself). Yeah, that's not the problem, the problem is that this caught the world's attention. Well, it was supposed to catch the attention of would-be journalist critics, right? Kind of hard to do that without other people figuring it out.
13
It will be news fit to print when Trump admits that he has been a gullible fool when it comes to believing Putin, Kim Jong-un, MBS, and all the other iron-fist rulers he idealizes. It will also be a story fit to print when the 60 + million who love Trump wake up!
6
Right now, the Saudis are figuring out who will be the fall guy.
5
The president now says that "this one [Khashoggi's murder and dismemberment] has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately."
Nope, we sure don't want too much global attention paid to this atrocity. Some hapless dude at the top of the Saudi food chain might get caught!
Bad piece of luck, there; I wonder how the president feels about the brutality of the actual crime? He says that he loves torture even worse than waterboarding.
3
“This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately,” Mr. Trump said in a brief interview with The New York Times in the Oval Office.
What? It’s “unfortunate” that such high-level thuggishness and brutality doesn’t go unnoticed? That the sadistic torturing and dismemberment of a public figure such as Mr. Khashoggi doesn’t fly beneath the radar of public awareness like the murders and disappearances of countless unknowns at the hands of the Kims, Dutertes and sundry other killers Trump so admires? Yes, for people like Trump and his kind, “unfortunate” indeed.
8
Is this the "october" surprise? A gruesome murder of a journalist and the president and secretary of state starting a coverup, or is the october surprise a few hundred migrants marching north to save their lives, the "october" surprise? This election determines where are country goes with morals and values.
6
WORDS
“Caught the imagination of the world.” Not “sparked the outrage of the world.”
This is Hollywood language. And it reveals that the president is not seeing the murder of Jamal Khashoggi through the eyes of moral outrage but through the eyes of Reality TV.
Sometimes words slip out that are legitimate fumbles; we did not say what we meant to say because we did not find the right words in time for our mouth to speak them. But there is still the emotional residue of what was intended that shows through the veneer of our accidentally wrong words.
“Caught the imagination of the world” is a controlled statement. It is not an accidental phrase because there is too much of a considered point of view inside of it. “Caught the imagination of the world” reveals that Donald Trump is still stuck in the movie of Himself rather than propelled to moral outrage that a journalist living on American soil, a truth-teller fighting injustice, a man about to married to a woman waiting who was for him outside the building where he was being tortured, was murdered on order of the crown prince of Saudi Arabia because he did not like this man’s words.
Words matter.
Words like “freedom” and “truth” and “courage” and “justice” and “Jamal Khashoggi.”
And then there are other words, like “killer” and “murderer” and “torturer” and “Mohammed bin Salman.”
Jamal Khashoggi did not capture “the imagination of the world.”
He was murdered. And saying anything less than that is:
“Complicity.”
374
@H. A. Sappho
A great write up and many points very well taken, but you left out one key phrase that would have reinforced your comments: Due Process and the presumption of innocence.
The President has not joined the press and many others to condemn an Ally before the investigation is complete. The actual findings will be out in a matter of days. The President and others that agree with the “presumption of innocence” are cautiously waiting for the results of the investigation. Hopefully, others will follow his lead on this.
1
@H. A. Sappho Exactly. So well articulated; so very accurate.
For someone to feel moral outrage, one would have to have some sense of moral values. Trump is not such a person.
Hmm. It only took him a week to solve the Kavanagh case?
I can only imagine Trump’s version of “severe consequences” - Jared won’t be allowed to have any more play dates with MSB?
9
The American people are now complicit in these despotic atrocities. Oh yes, we sure are. Voting is our responsibility.
10
"We have parked this bus right outside the palace gates... if by morning someone does not voluntarily jump under the bus we will be picking someone at random to be tossed under the bus..."
3
Mr. Mills's photo is the perfect summation of the state of the U.S. presidency since January 20, 2017
1
I don’t understand how Saudi Arabia is an “important counterterrorism partner” - were 19 of the 9/11 terrorists Saudi Arabian? Wasn’t Osama bin Ladin a Saudi?
8
So he "believes Kashoggi is dead"? Children 'believe'; adults say "the evidence overwhelmingly points to him having been killed by the Saudis, and on orders from someone in the regime". This is the problem with this administration - childlike, perhaps in a nod to its constituency, the manner of communication they understand.
5
So due process meant rushing through a week-long investigation for Kavanaugh, but when it comes to protecting murderers, “more time” eh.
7
Breaking news. Trump considering acknowledging that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west. His comment: "We'll see what happens once our investigation is complete."
2
He doesn’t have a choice. The whole world knows, knew ! But he will do the least harmful to the Saudi regime. He is still in real estate business. And has more apartments to sell. Your president. Your moral, ethical monster of a leader. We are now known as no different than the company we keep!
3
Sounds like bin Salman is working his way up to a Henry II defence ("Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest?"). The blood is still on his hands though.
1
Trump admitting the death is meaningless. Once the Saudis settle on a suitable scapegoat and launch the alibi, the real dissembling begins -- no corroboration! Are you gonna believe our "friends", or a dismembered dead guy? It ends with a televised Trump apology to MBS and his family on behalf of the nation for the horrible smears they had to endure.
4
If it takes two weeks to come up with a scapegoat and the story shape shifts around a few bumps you can safely assume the orders came from the top. Not particularly clear orders or there would not be audio tapes and witnesses and 15 assassins and two planes needed. But if all that went into it shouldn't a decent alibi and explanation have been sorted out?
Sounds more like pure arrogance. Get rid of that annoying journalist, the US won't do anything, we greased those wheels. They almost got that right but since Mr. Trump has abdicated the leader of the free world part of his job there was a gap, filled by those who can still be shocked and appalled.
7
If Iran did something like that, the cruise missiles would already be launched. Here at least Mnuchin decided not to go to the prince's propaganda meeting. They badly need the revolution there and overthrow of the monarchy. They are 3 centuries behind the US and France on that and a century behind Russia.
8
Trump is such a Sherlock Holmes. If he tried to collect intelligence from agencies that he has consistently undermined, he would have a trail leading right to the doorstep of this Crown Prince.
Will his voters care? I doubt it but democratic politicians better pressure republicans in the Senate to reach the inevitable conclusion as Trump draws closer to being complicit in the death of Mr. Khashoggi. he has had many disgraceful moments in his presidency and this could be the worst.
2
Trump edges closer to acknowledging a Saudi role? Good lord, next he'll acknowledge that gravity exists. And that the flat earthers are wrong. Aren't we lucky to have such a leader?
8
First Trump's FBI leads a limited investigation into the Kavanaugh allegations.
Now, we are to trust the Saudi investigation into a murder they are alleged to have committed.
To paraphrase our president, it “certainly looks” like justice is dead.
3
Its still amazes me that THIS is our MBS red line
Not the fact hes responsible for our generations Rwanda in Yemen which is STILL ongoing, yet no one talks about.
3
This just in:
Trump Admits Earth Not Center of Universe!
Unless you count Trump Tower, in which case, "It totally is. Absolutely. No question."
1
Perhaps Saudi B's purpose all along was conspicuously owning Trump. Buy an electric car when your current car is done.
1
Why did Pompeo even grace the Saudi murderer with a visit? There was no need for that. Pompeo SHOULD have gone to Turkey.
5
If you have the entire murder on tape then why is there a question of possible innocence?
And the fact that like Russia, nothing happens with high officials without Putin's knowledge, nothing happens in Saudi Arabia without MBS's knowledge. He ordered it.
He is a brutal wannabe leader of the world but made a big big big mistake in judgement. Now he needs to get out. If the US stays with SA, MBS must be gone.
4
it's hard to understand what there is left to investigate, or what the Saudis could possibly add at this point that isnt misdirection.
2
The cost of the Faustian bargain between The Republicans and Mr Trump is rising. Pat Robertson has revealed his allegiance to the sanctity of human life. Apparently it's worth less than military contracts. That is a "Man of God" saying that. Really? Murder of a journalist by an ally is not worth contracts? What would Jesus do? The exact opposite of the fraudulent President and Preacher. Vote Democrat on Nov 6. End this madness.
8
With a US GDP of $19.74 trillion, $100 billion is .006% of that, not even the same as the number of unpopped kernels in your microwave popcorn bag. If the saud's chose to buy Chinese weapons instead, it would be a great big "so what". We can sell these elsewhere or make something else.
4
“This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately,” Mr. Trump said to reporters.
Truly unfortunate. If only this brutal murder could have been swept under the carpet and forgotten like all the others brutal killings MBS ordered, things would be so much better.
Sometimes I cannot fathom how people supported this man for president.
8
trump is being dragged, kicking and screaming, toward the truth, and still he protests. For someone who claims to be 'like a really smart person,' he certainly is reluctant to acknowledge the facts. Hmm, ya think he has a separate agenda going on?
Two scenarios will possibly play out very soon...the Saudi 'crown prince' Bin Salman will be removed from power by his father...or there'll be a coup by other members of the royal family aided by the powerful businessmen who were humiliated by Bin Salman.
It's quite possible that Mr Pompeo was dispatched to Riyadh to take the pulse of either (or both) these scenarios....and reported back to the White House.
3
Rather than speculating about this journalist’s fate before the facts are in, perhaps the president might consider how his own irresponsible vilification of the press in general (and the Washington Post in particular) as “bad,” “evil,” and “enemies of the people,” fanning the flames at his angry mob rallies, actively encourages others to attack those who speak out against abuses of power. Combine that with his bizarre penchant for shamelessly flattering autocrats, and it’s not surprising that these rogue regimes might feel they can get away with their own attacks on reporters.
193
It is a sad measure of just how far American society has fallen that it’s non-tinfoil-hat plausible to be concerned that perhaps this President and/or his son-in-law might be at least tangentially complicit in the Khashoggi atrocity. Accessories before/after the fact?
4
Look, before admonishing the Saudi crown prince, our Administration has to be certain about what happened. That said, the Saudis deserve to have many embassies closed, and contact maintained strictly by high level government officials, nothing more. IF an embassy or consulate building, located in a foreign country, is used for political (or religious) murder, then all trust amongst nations, especially the rogue ones who still largely staff embassies across the western world, is lost, period. If there isn't complete trust that meetings between top officials, however much the countries dislike each other, will be totally safe, then all communication and diplomacy suffers a fatal blow. If our country, and most other western nations, cannot figure out how to diplomatically punish/censor the Saudis for committing such an atrocity on someone else's soil, then we will be condemned to future ineffective, if not deadly, communication. Without mutually civil behaviors, the whole point of the UN (never mind that they are often ineffective, and cowardly), let alone exchanged ambassadors, is futile.
We cannot afford that. The Saudis have to learn a bitter lesson.
103
@Rosalie Lieberman
Perhaps if we had exchanged ambassadors with the Saudis instead of relying on a clueless family member to handle relations with the Saudis none of this would have happened.
1
@Rosalie Lieberman
You started out fine by staying the obvious that the President and the World needs to wait for the investigation to be completed. But, then you stated that the Saudis need to be punished. I’m not sure you meant to say that. I agree that whoever was responsible for this horrendous crime against the reporter and against civil society needs to be punished, but only after we find out if the guys dead and, if so, who directed the killing. Everyone needs to take a breath and let this play out. There is good reason for delay. The comments being made about ending the relationship with the Saudis are not well thought out. They are the expected first reaction. First reactions are seldom thought through. Luckily, the guy in charge is thinking this through and will base his final approach on the actual evidence. We need to give the Turks and Saudis time to finish the investigation.
1
@Rosalie Lieberman, the trump administration, through Pompeo, allowed the Saudis time to concoct a story as to what happened. They should have admonished the Saudis from the moment the Turkish govt. produced the evidence of Khashoggi's torture and murder. Until that time, they should have stayed quiet unless they wished to say they were awaiting the results of the investigation by the Turkish authorities in the matter. One thing the Trump team is not and that is diplomatic. They are also not honest which plays into everything they do and say. The US needs to take a firm stance on the murder of an American resident who was a (more than) competent and respected journalist.
The Saudis DO need to learn a bitter lesson. As does Trump.
Donald Trump holds money and power in higher regard than human life. People are disposable. Real estate and gold last forever. Human rights are a non-starter with this president.
10
I have a story to tell Democrat candidates to adopt several goals in their campaign narratives before the election;
One takeaway of this story is our nervous strain over Saudi Oil.
Within the last two years, Trump and his Congressional colleagues repealed the long held prohibition on exporting American Crude Oil and sold some of our strategic oil reserve stocks in a profiteering and oil company move. Since Trump's campaign around January 2016, the price of oil has more than doubled as it started at 29 dollars per barrel Jan '16 and now hovers around 70 dollars. Our strategic reserve, meant to last about a month is partially depleted with the Republican sales. America consumes about 20 million barrels of oil a day, of which, about 1 million is imported from Saudi Arabia at a cost of about 70 million dollars a day. Over a year that cost is about 25 Billion dollars. After four years, we will have paid the price for that arms deal with the Saudi's.
Our nation is vulnerable right now and very tellingly, the Trump administration is tip toeing about this heinous crime partly to avoid losing Saudi Oil imports.
Trump has made trouble with Venezuela, a major source of imports here. He has been focused on fossil fuels these years.
Democrats will win by promising to prohibit oil exporting, restocking the reserve, building green projects and making us energy self reliant. Undo the Republican strategic blunders and lower prices which will propel our economy.
It's a defense need.
8
According to this story, Trump thinks it unfortunate that the story is out, not that it's true. The poor man can't keep things straight nor his lips buttoned. Children are said to speak the truth because they don't know they shouldn't. In this case, that's what happened. Trump regrets not the murder, not the dismemberment, not the missing fingers, nor the bone saw but "unfortunately" that all was discovered. And he appears not to realize that he expressed his true thoughts.
8
There are so many untraceable and inexplicable ways of having someone die. In comparison, this is almost like a public execution. Just like the poisoning by exotic, traceable Russian poisons. Everything that's happening now was meant to happen. I don't know what the game is and who's game it is, but there is more to it than meets the public eye.
5
Why are we following Trump’s fleeting sentiments... the majority of the nation has passed and is beyond him.
3
Intelligent people are aware of the slowness of Trump and Pompeo's aptitude in this matter. It has been infuriating.
Human rights and freedom of the press organizations prefer Turkey request a United Nations' investigation into Khashoggi's apparent murder.
Amnesty International, The Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ), Human Rights Watch, and Reporters Without Borders said Turkey should get the UN "to initiate a timely, credible, and transparent investigation."
CPI's director said "UN involvement is the best guarantee against a Saudi whitewash or attempts by other governments to sweep the issue under the carpet to preserve lucrative business ties with Riyadh."
1
"This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately,"
Which means he doesn't regret it happening, but would have preferred that the world had ignored it.
4
No one doubts that Saudi Agents murdered and dismembered a Saudi Arabian dissident. No one seriously doubts that this type of operation was authorized by the highest levels of the Saudi government, very possibly including the Crown Prince. It is also well known that JFK authorized attempts to kill Fidel Castro and the US under Kissinger as NSA authorized and assisted in the murder of Chilean President Allende. President Obama was complicit in the death of Khadaffi. The world is a brutal place and I share the revulsion at all these atrocities. The alliance with Saudi Arabia must continue. That is undeniable. Some punishment must be meted out to some Saudis. Mueller indicted Russians; Trump can do the same. Justice for American citizens slain by police and for monarchs slaughtering dissidents is not something we'll see too often.
2
@alan brown
Why must the alliance with S A continue? Is it written into the Constitution?
@alan brown We don't necessarily need an "alliance" with the Saudi's. "Alliance" implies a relationship between equals. Far better would be if they were treated as a subordinate state, to put it crudely, our vassals. That's what they deserve. Trump makes a big point that countries we protect have to pay. OK here's the deal. 20% of every dollar Saudi Aramco pulls in as revenue goes straight into the US treasury. Or else.
At least you acknowledge the long tradition of cupidity and mendacity.
Trump's being cagey and is still entirely transparent. This is entirely about the mid-terms. Good to see he's a little afraid, though.
This is like applauding the mental progress of a 3 year old, and waiting with bated breath for his further pronouncements.
3
Just another episode that highlights the difference between the current administration and every single one that preceded it.
Until 2 years ago, there was no doubt how this would have been handled... but also, prior to then, the Saudis would have been less likely to try something like this.
Consider the global society to be an airplane for the last 70-80 years, piloted by American policy... by democratic policy... by arguably, a liberal policy... then two years ago that pilot jumped out of the plane.
Democracy can take a nose dive into a mountain or someone with some piloting skills had better grab the stick... that's exactly where we are right now.
15
They buy a lot of stuff from us!? Does tRump always have to measure everything in dollars and cents? Have we no moral fiber in this country anymore?
3
This is the same president who said that Dr. Ford's testimony was "credible".
The truth is shaped to fit his needs .
1
"... the consequences will “have to be very severe...“I mean,” he said, “it’s bad, bad stuff.”
I'm really curious what "severe" consequences will actually look and be like. The current US President made his first trip abroad was to sword dance with the same leadership responsible for this incredibly brazen and brutal murder of a journalist who was actually quite supportive of the regime at times.
Couple that with Trump seeming to just parrot MBS denials and floated some bizarre alternate theory that some never-before-seen 'rogue' squad accidentally did it. Then US Secretary of State Pompeo was all smiles at his meeting with them, thanking them for hosting him just two days ago while the evidence was piling on. Oh, and Mr. Trump is still touting a yet to be fulfilled $450B trade and arms deal with the Saudis as one of his great achievements.
Recall too that just 2 months ago, the Saudi's went ballistic when Canada tweeted concern for human rights activist after her arrest. Not a peep of support from the US, or any other allies for that matter. Oil and money seem to reflect the core values and concerns of the day over basic human rights, decency, and rule of law.
In that context, call my cynical, but I'm not confident there will be any consequences, severe or otherwise. Its bad, bad stuff.
6
In our law, all participants in a botched kidnapping that leads to death (even unintentionally) are guilty of murder. So the prince’s (unbelievable) line doesn’t absolve him at all.
2
Speaking only for myself, normally I’m marginally *less* inclined to sell huge bundles of really scary weapons to people whenever I find out there’s a good possibility that they’re murderers. I’m overgeneralizing, of course, but those are my first instincts.
8
"Even Mr. Pompeo reminded reporters of the United States’ long 'strategic' relationship with the Saudis, dating back to 1932, and said the kingdom remained an 'important counterterrorism partner.'"
Ask Pompeo if he has heard of the 1973 OPEC Oil Embargo or the nationality of almost all the 9/11 terrorists or the nationality of Osama bin Laden. For someone who was a CIA Director and is now the Secretary of State, he doesn't seem to know much about current geopolitical events of major significance. Just like his boss.
7
In my earlier post, I enlikened Trump's manner in "believing" as childlike - and also like a child, he may completely change his 'belief' tomorrow, as we've seen plenty of times, with no indication from him that he understands such behavior is not acceptable or expected from adults. He'll continue as long as his constituents tolerate or even enjoy his behavior.
3
I think Trump,Pompeo, and Kushner are waiting for a cover story that Erdogan will and can accept. The only question is what is Erdogan's price?
2
“This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately,” Not sure if he is referring to the rest of the world as having imagined or trumped up the undeniable facts in this case, or regrets that now that the rest of the world believes what happened, he also has to concede?
The Saudi attempt to take a page from donald's playbook, deny, attack, deny did not work out too well. Let's see just how harsh donald will be in punishment for this atrocity. Thousands are dying in Yemen with some assistance from the US, no concern there.
Why has no one demanded the return of the body?
9
The reason this is news and the thousands of dead in Yemen is not news is that journalists protect their own. It could be them next time. While this is a tragic story, it is not nearly as awful as the way the United States is supporting the Saudis in Yemen. They are starving and killing so many civilians and Trump claims them as one of our critical allies. When the U.S. blatantly supports tyrannical dictators and does not even feign concern for the oppressed, the reign of humanity is close to an end.
3
@CA Dreamer
There is no hierarchy of horror in this story. Both atrocities are part of the same story. Saudi Arabia as a rogue state with US complicity.
I've never understood why we're allies with such a brutal, backwards regime. If it's oil we're so concerned with, how about pumping some money into subsidizing alternative energy sources, just as the US did for the oil industry when cars started running on gasoline? How in the world did Saudis escape the "Muslim" travel ban when most of the 9/11 attackers were from there? This country has no scruples when it comes to the behavior we'll accept from others.
16
Trump says the incident in the embassy in Turkey is "bad, bad stuff." But his other statements suggest the problem is that the world found out about it, not that it happened. It didn't catch the world's imagination, it horrified people (normal people, but apparently not Trump).
8
So in other words, Jared, Trump, and Mr. Bone Saw have settled on a fall-guy, so now they can admit the obvious.
3
The Khashoggi affair pretty much seals it that Donald Trump is destroying everything this country stands for and he's getting away with it. The country's standing in the world rests on Democrats taking over Congress and/or the conclusion Robert Mueller investigation.
26
This might be unpopular but I think Trump is disgusted by it, just like everyone else in the west.
1
The message that Trump’s waffling has sent out to the world is that money trumps human decency. A citizen of a country was slaughtered - in their own embassy! If they are not held fully accountable this opens up all manners of horrific violations of basic conduct across the world. The gloves are off. And it is because our president has opened the door to these behaviors, stated that America only looks out for itself. We no longer stand for freedom, equality, human rights. We have aligned with the dictators, despots, despoilers.
3
No wonder Trump took so long to acknowledge the possible death and responsibility. It's the same intelligence group that submitted reports on Russian interference and Keg Kavenaugh. The former he doesn't believe and the latter he knows is a political sham.
8
Please can we find an American fifth-grader of average intelligence and declare him or her President until January 2021?
At least a fifth-grader would know the difference between telling the truth and telling a lie.
At least a fifth-grader could read and would possess a more sophisticated vocabulary than that of a functional illiterate.
At least a fifth-grader could assess reality, reason, and draw logical conclusions based on evidence.
At least a fifth-grader could muster a bit of empathy for the persecuted and downtrodden.
I think any intelligent fifth-grader would be a vast improvement over what we have now.
8
One aspect of all this and something that has not been addressed.... why would Khashoggi walk into a Saudi Embassy in a country as dangerous as Turkey. Personally, if I had angered Putin and wanted to adopt a child, I don’t think that I would walk into a Russian Embassy in Turkey alone, to discuss the paperwork required to adopt a Russian child. Khashoggi knew that he was a marked man, so why did he not select a Saudi embassy in a safer country and bring witnesses with him to get marriage documents ? I don’t know all the details, but so far, it sounds like poor decision making on the part of Khashoggi. Some people are just born victims.
1
@Joe Smith
It’s quite possible this would have happened no matter where the consulate was located. The fact they chose Turkey is irrelevant. It was their mistake not to realize the Turks had the building bugged and under surveillance. In fact, this crime might have been easier to get away with if they had chosen New York or Geneva.
@Joe Smith Lots of people have made comments such as this one in the Times. Such comments are irrelevant.
In truer words IQ45 figures out that it's becoming common knowledge of his and his son-in-law's deals with the Saudi Arabian Prince. So He'll change his tune in hope that people will stop looking into his connections to the Prince.
1
It’s so telling that, in Trumps mind, the thing that is unfortunate is that ‘it has captured the imagination of the world.’
Not that ‘it happened’.
Heaven help all of us.
2
I expect that US Intelligence has all the communications from and to that "House of execution" which Trump may choose to lend no credence to them.
1
Don has a mind like a steel trap, (sprung shut),doesn't he?
Keen instincts too. It has taken him a week to gauge the level of disgust at how our reputation among the civilized nations, (a term he equates with 'white' and 'relatively industrialized') at our attitude and inaction in this entire affair.
Was he on sale in the Wal-Mart refurbished & returned bin or something?
15
I am not too happy with:
“This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately."
Really 'unfortunate' indeed that a anyone should lose their life.
The hands wide open image says it all. "I am squeaky clean ...".
At least he was not sitting on the edge of a seat, with his fingers in a pyramid together, which is when all the best lies are spouted.
MBS is helping the downfall of our out-of-his depth president.
3
Wikipedia:Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest? (sometimes expressed as troublesome or meddlesome priest) is an utterance attributed to Henry II of England, which led to the death of Thomas Becket, the Archbishop of Canterbury, in 1170. While it was not expressed as an order, it caused four knights to travel from Normandy to Canterbury, where they killed Becket.
2
My God, Suspend the arms deal and boycott the Davos Technology Conference until questions are answered. A murder has been committed against a journalist who's only crime appears to be that he has exercised his right to free speech and was doing his job as a reporter. If this is the new "Moderate" Saudi Arabia maybe it's time for a rethink.
14
If Kashoggi's death tells us anything it's the importance of a free press. SO...Please NYT stop covering Trump's statements on issues like this as real news, especially in headlines that make it sound like there's actual thought or analysis behind them. I understand that the convention is to cover what the president says, but we need new rules now. Please try to develop new conventions beyond stenography when, as in this case, it seems pretty clear that the president's motivation is obfuscation, self promotion and/or personal gain, too often at the expense of decency or our national interest. It is naive... and dangerous to cover this presidency by old standards.
1
I have wondered for many years why the U.S. maintains an alliance with Saudi Arabia. It's not a stretch to say that that Saudi nationals are responsible for more U.S. deaths in recent years than any other nation. And the Saud regime treats most of its own people with contempt, including women, immigrants (who do most of the useful labor in the country), and anyone outside the regime who expresses an opinion.
As a country that enshrines press freedom in its Constitution, why does the U.S. tolerate this?
4
Amid all the trump back and forth rhetoric on the dirty Saudi business, he manages to claim that Kavanaugh was “proved innocent all the way through”. This is just plain wrong! The GOP stranglehold on the the FBI ‘investigation’ was a blatant effort to squelch evidence strongly suggesting that the GOP is hiding something. and that Kavanaugh has certainly not been proved innocent. The sexual abuse allegations against him are not going away. The truth will emerge eventually. Besides, in addition there are mounting perjury allegations as well. This Kavanaugh controversey is far from over.
15
It is an imperative that we and our true allies take action against Saudi Arabia for this atrocity.
An equal imperative is we take stock of our total relationship with Saudi Arabia.
It’s citizens attacked us on 9/11 and killed thousands of Americans. They then moved their war on us to Afghanistan and killed thousands of Americansand our allies. Although Al quada is basically vanquished their allies the Taliban continue the fight.
ISIS and Alquaeda have committed terrorists acts around the world and the ideology and funds that drive them are provided by the Wahabis a most extreme sect operating in Saudi Arabia that have an alliance with the Saudi Royal family.
We must be alive to the risk the Wahabis overturn the Saudi Royal family and get access to the Arms we supply them.
Remember our foolish support for the Shah in Iran.
Let’s protect our security by severing ties with Saudi Arabia now and focus on building our energy independence and jobs by investing in renewable energy
3
Putting all of president Trump's statements on a chart would demonstrate he lacks moral clarity. A grisly murder, abundant circumstantial evidence - and he is still unable to issue a clear decent statement. Where is his compassion and morality? This thing happened in an embassy building, two planes bearing a 15-member hit squad, a bone saw - and still no empathy from president Trump. So ghoulish!
Sending a Cabinet Officer Pompeo to Riyadh what for? To get a promise of an investigation into the murder done by the conspirators and executioners.
3
Trump is seizing on this (now), and promising retribution, in order to try to make himself 'look good'. Perhaps in a few weeks or maybe in 2020, he and his sycophants will trot out the president's statements and credentials to prove to all that he is no enemy of the press.
So, yes, the Saudis will feel the heat, but Donald will have strengthened and reassured his base. And THAT is scary.
43
Sadly, it appears that the torture and murder of a journalist is just an inconvenience to trump.
190
I suppose that is the case mostly when the world learns that one of the President's good friends is implicated.
1
@Anthony Like everything, this crime is viewed by Trump through the lens of "does it help ME or hurt ME."
Well, this says it all, doesn’t it: ‘Mr. Kushner was still lobbying his father-in-law to stand by Prince Mohammed, arguing the scandal would eventually pass.’
Good lord do I miss Barack Obama.
The world seemed relatively stable during his tenure.
Is there an "O" signal that someone can activate?
313
@RST
Oh sure, except for the expanding Iranian hegemony, the Russian invasion of Crimea and Ukraine, and the Chinese expansion into the China Sea everything was hunkydory right? Let’s not forget him funneling hundreds of millions to Iran, which is why we have the problem with Iran and the Saudis today.
2
Using NATO air power to overthrow Qaddafi didn't exactly contribute to the stability of the region. Libya is still anarchic and tens of thousands of North Africans undergo a treacherous migration north to Italy...not exactly the good 'ol days?
@RS
Obama was a careful, thoughtful, articulate man - none of these words describe Trump.
1
Such statesman, world leader rhetoric worthy of Winston Churchill"...“this is bad, bad stuff". UGH!
135
So after insulting, threatening, sanctioning, and tariffing our allies and friends who have fought with us in two world wars, how many 'friends' do we have left besides the sawbone Saudis, Israel, and maybe a few 3rd rate strongmen?
140
I wonder if Kushner knew from MBS that this was going down? My Trump Radar suspects he's complicit.
40
Yeah, it's really unfortunate that this had to "seize the world's attention," especially when Trump is constantly doing and saying outrageous and terrible things to ensure he's the center of world attention. It certainly annoys Trump that so much attention is being paid to the murder of a journalist (of all people) by the Saudis and Mohammed bin Salman. Trump has said that Khashoggi is dead, which could mean anything, like he fell in a bathtub, or "he ran into my knife ten times."
Trump already said: "You know, here we go again with, you know, you're guilty until proven innocent. I don’t like that. We just went through that with Justice Kavanaugh. And he was innocent all the way. So I was unconcerned." For Trump all that matters is that "they (the Saudis) are doing a very major investigation" and that they deny it. (Yes, just like in the alleged Kavanaugh investigation. Like that investigation, they'll ask MBS if he did it, and he'll say no, and they'll say Khashoggi won't testify, on account of his being dead, and so we have to believe MBS). It's why Trump made sure to let everyone know "They (the Saudis) were very strong in their denial about themselves knowing."
24
@Robert B I am appalled by the contempt that Trump and Pompeo have for the American people. It's matched by the contempt I have for them.
1
Trump believes Khashoggi is dead.
Wow, it took Trump's brain a while to catch up with the rest of the civilized world concluded two weeks ago.
This means Jared will toss out the "rogue killers" story and write a new script filled with empty threats and promises and more denials.
Meanwhile in Riyadh, the Vampire Saudi Prince and his assassins are laughing and telling Trump jokes: How many Trumps do you need to change a lightbulb? A whole crew and one to lie about it at a press conference with a straight face. Believe me.
37
Trump and his enablers are turning America into an international laughing stock.
116
Michelle,
He already has.
Please know that the Americans that believe in Truth, Justice and the American way are still here.
And we always shall be!
That's what the United States of America was built upon.
My neighbor has just returned from several weeks in France and alas, that is exactly what America has become!
Why does the USA have to respond to this “ foreign “ intrigue anyways? What about Europe, are their citizens demanding harsh action, maybe war? Turkey where this reporter is a citizen maybe ? Of course not! Just the Trump haters who are demanding total disengagement with Saudi Arabia just short of war...Riduclous , and bad for the USA.
7
@Moe Def Maybe because we have held ourselves out as a beacon of human/civil rights? Maybe because the journalist was a resident of the US? Maybe because everyone--not just Canada--should stand up to the state-supported terrorism and rise of Islamic extremists sponsored by Saudi Arabia?
1
@Moe Def
Perhaps it is "riduclous" (if we knew what that "word" means); however, you are incorrect in saying Mr. Khashoggi was a Turkish citizen: he was a citizen of Saudi Arabia and you are also incorrect in asking "What about Europe?" Officials from several European nations--including France and Great Britain--withdrew from the upcoming Saudi-sponsored investment conference as a protest against the murderous Crown Prince long before today's face-saving announcement that Steve Mnuchin would not be attending --an announcement not prompted by any moral principles on the part of the unprincipled Mnuchin and his colleagues in the White House, but rather a pathetic attempt by Trump to not be left out of the chorus of outrage throughout the world at the venomous Mohammed bin Salman.
1
You don’t understand the importance and power of the US...It’s our world and we can maintain some moral authority by teaching SA a lesson AND still maintain a relationship with them...
The Saudi's will find a couple of scapegoats to take the blame. They'll pay off the families of the scapegoats and Trump will say "I told you so, rogue killers". Trump will then send out an inflammatory tweet about Pocahantas and Stormy Daniels. The media will gobble it up and all will be forgotten about Khashoggi in about 7-days. Book it.
78
And this is because Trump is very predictable.....everyone can anticipate his next response and his next move.
How important is money to Trump, Pompeo and all the GOPs? Is it far more worth than a human life? I get sick to stomach when they claim to be for antiabortion, yet ignore the cruelty toward Yemenis, look the other way and cover up the murder of Jamal Khashoggi by MBS. When they claim that a fetus can’t be terminated, yet they do nothing about gun control. Is a fetus more important than a child who are already here?
I am sad, depressed and feel hopeless for the future of our country. So called the leader of the free world promotes hatred, violence and division at every rally he holds, embraces murderous dictators all over the world and is the most corrupt creature with no conscience whatsoever. Money in his pocket is far more valuable than an innocent life ended by gruesome murder. Can this moral corruption get any worse?
87
@Gracie True. But let us remember the hundred of thousands killed by Bush's invasion of Iraq, by Obama's rockets in Libya and his drones in other places. It is not just one political party or the other, or their leaders, who do not value human life. It is the underlying system that causes those crimes.
3
Dare I say it, but Trump is having a presidential moment. It appears that he even comprehends that this is, probably, a watershed moment in the world order. America has closely allied itself with both of the Middle East’s natural enemies, Israel and Saudi Arabia, and all three have a collective angst against Iran. However, clearly, this dynamic is obliged to shift, not in Saudi favour, but that of Iran which will gain a little breathing space while the opposition reorganises. The US/Saudi honeymoon will likely be heavily towards an acrimonious split, MBS will be internationally spurned, as he should be.
If this means an end or, at least, a reduction in arms sales to Saudi, countless lives may be saved in Yemen as an ironically positive outcome from the appalling murder of one journalist, and I’m sure Mr Khashoggi would be thankful for that. Too many journalists have met untimely ends across the world to shrill protests but no solid acknowledgement. Martyrdom in the Islamic world has recently had horrific connotations, but here, in this one atrocity, it has the potential to have real meaning given that we still live in a world that acknowledges bloody personal sacrifice. Archbishop Romero was recently anointed with a sainthood. Perhaps Mr Khashoggi’s death will mark a similar equivalency within a region torn by western perfidy and eastern hypocrisy.
18
So pleased that the world has been able to impress on our ‘so-called’ president the needed serious consequences of the murder of an American resident and reporter. This president who often makes false equivalence by saying “there are fine people on both sides“ and “do you think we are so innocent” seems to be missing the very epitome of all nations where human rights are upheld, the value on life itself not dependent on shared beliefs. Please don’t think his change of heart is based on how he values life, as he already said this death shouldn’t deter the business relationship between the U.S. and Saudis. For all you Trump fans, please realize your life probably doesn’t mean any more than Khashoggi’s, as he traded your well being for tax breaks for he and his 1 percent club. Now, he and some Republicans want to rob you of health insurance and Social Security in your old age too. Realize where any life is deemed expendable and undervalued, it is just a matter of time before we all are.
113
It's no longer a question of belief.
14
“Not a positive?” What he means is I’m going to do nothing & I can’t wait to get out of here tomorrow & play golf.
100
What an irony that Trump, hater of journalists, the free press, and the first amendment, will now have to deal with the murder of Mr. Khashoggi ordered by the Saudi Arabian Crown Prince. Trump has done nothing but encourage violence against journalists who critique his own government. So now it's time to put up or shut up--do you, Donald Trump, value the lives of journalists who speak truth to power (wherever they may be), or will you make yet another deal with the devil and let the Saudi Royals off the hook? I'm willing to bet that you, as always, will look to make a deal rather than do what is right.
23
Evidence has convinced the rest of the world that Mr. Khashoggi was murdered, but Trump is still waffling, as if by some miracle Mr. Khashoggi might still be found alive and well, and he wouldn't have to risk offending the Saudis.
Trump doesn't know the meaning of the word shame when it comes to money, or much else, for that matter.
79
@dutchiris
Talking about evidence is not the same thing as actually having evidence. Everyone keeps talking about this audio tape, yet so far, that tape has not been released.
1
"...bad, bad stuff." Very presidential. Very sophisticated thinking by our Commander In Chief.
51
Two weeks and counting and Mr. Trump finally says he believes Mr. Khashoggi is dead? Let us not be deceived. Donald Trump is not the "Consoler-in-Chief" as President Obama was. He is utterly incapable of that. Rather than being a real live compassionate human being grieving for the victim, a journalist from our own Washington Post, he and Pompeo are very likely busy at work scheming as to how they can deceive the public and the world while maintaining long-standing, self-serving interests with Saudi Arabia.
Just today on the News Hour a Middle Eastern, very articulate journalist was interviewed. His words struck me and caused me to flinch. To paraphrase, he said that the world is listening to and watching Mr. Trump. To date, our so-called "leader" is being judged and sending an ominous message. That is that if DT continues his present defense and lack of spine re M.B.S., he is green-lighting other tyrants and killers that they too can do what Saudi Arabia allegedly has. This is your president, America.
78
The Trump Administration knows all of the sordid details of this heinous murder and the events leading up to it. The reaction is deplorable and Donald Trump is desperate to avoid offending the Saudi government and members of the royal family. Let’s face facts: they spend millions of dollars buying condos, golf memberships, and patronizing his hotels. He’s been recorded on camera talking about how much he likes the Saudis and how much money he makes off of them. This isn’t hard to figure out. Just when you think Trump can’t sink any further, he hits another low. I took advantage of early voting today and voted a straight Democratic ticket. As I stood in line waiting for a booth, I couldn’t help but think about this murder and all of the other outrageous behavior. I hope and pray we rid our government of this vile man.
189
@MyHumbleOpinion: I agree totally. This is why Trump should have been impeached under the emoluments clause on day 1. He is has split loyalties.
3
Our foreign policy will be designed to insure that the relationship between the Saudi royal family and Trump’s family becomes rock solid. As a father, Trump wants to leave that legacy to his children and their spouses. The King and Crown Prince now know that Trump stands with them regardless of politics/human rights. So when the controller of the Trump businesses in 2030 needs large amounts of capital for some deal, a Saudi entity will be happy to invest at very favorable terms. Trump’s position is not based on oil or Iran-hating, or defense contracts (unless he is invested in any particular one). It is formed by a father seeking to protect his family after he is gone.
5
Wonderful headline. While the rest of the world has known this for almost two weeks, this guy is just waking up. Lovely.
13
“because it’s taken on a bigger life than it would normally take on.”
Huh? What's "normally," Mr. Trump? Are you responding as you do only because of press coverage? It is truly chilling that our president so completely lacks a moral compass, and is utterly unable to think for himself. I know I should be used to this by now, but the magnitude of his failings on both fronts is just, well, hard to get over.
20
The thing that makes this story even more insane than it already is is the breathless tone of this coverage: "What will Donald Trump pronounce?" It's as though he's the boss on a reality TV show stalling among commercial breaks, and it elevates Donald Trump's opinion of reality beyond the importance of actual reality.
7
If American outrage over this horribly brutal murder hadn’t persisted, Trump would have rather swept it under a carpet. But his guarded acknowledgment of the truth of the matter is better late than never. We are still a democracy. Thank god.
11
@Peter
Peter, leave god out of it. And no, we're not still a democracy. You need to go to northern Europe and the Scandinavian countries for that.
25
@Peter Jaffe It's a Republic. The popular vote doesn't count. If it did Trump would not be president.
1
The "rogue killer" thesis still is available to Trump. He just needs to be willing to acknowledge that MBS is the rogue.
16
President Trump had misspoken by contradicting his Foreign Secretary who indicated that the Trump government would wait for Saudi Arabi's investigation report in this matter.
It suggests the investigation will take more time to complete - i.e.) beyond the mid-terms; and president Trump will spin Fake disgust to pretend that he would punish Saudi Arabia during the run-up to the midterms.
The president's approach to politics exploits voters’ lack of attention to his reverse-psychology stream of misrepresentations: building a wall, better Obamacare and America First trade that results in job losses.
Reasonable people who follow the president's statements, actions and claims will see this current news cycle as an opportunity to observe a Fake Presidency designed to exploit his MAGA base and squeeze votes for the GOP regime.
Senators who lined-up to provide a chorus of 'biased jurors' during the Brett Kavanaugh affair had notably changed their view of innocence until proven guilty in the Saudi alleged murder of Khashoggi.
GOP Senators are running interference to obfuscate the president's changing assertions on innocence before proven guilty. President Trump worked the crowd during the race confrontations in Charlottesville when he played both sides of the fence.
The ideological battle brewing has the Republican party playing both sides of the fence. Doing so will permit voters to accept whatever they already believe. Yogi Berra would see it as "Déjà vu all over again".
8
The best action that the US could take is to ease the diplomatic tensions with Iran and remove the sanctions. A strong Iran is the best antidote to a thuggish Saudi Arabia. Moreover, flooding Iranian oil into the market is the one thing that the Saudi Kingdom does not want.
20
@Plato There are thuggish rulers in both places. But at the end of the day, Iran and the Persian people are more compatible with us than these tribesmen.
1
Welcome to Donald’s Not Positive Bad Bad Day. I think our president is used to thinking he can say whatever he wants, and even if it’s a transparent lie that openly contradicts intelligence reports or other facts in evidence, his base will believe him.
With this issue, he’s contending with an international audience that seems somewhat less gullible than the 40% of Americans believe Trump when he says Russia didn’t interfere on his behalf in the 2016 election, that we’re going to build a wall and Mexico will pay for it, that Obama tapped his phones, that millions of undocumented immigrants voted for Hillary Clinton, etc. I’m sure it’s completely obvious around the world that he’s going to continue to deny that there’s any proof of wrongdoing by the Saudis so that he can continue to sell billions of dollars’ worth of weapons to that corrupt and brutal regime.
The biggest problem with this is that the U.S. can’t fight terrorism on its own, and we can’t win allies in the war on terror if we’re only willing to condemn acts of terrorism when it’s in our economic interest. Who thought international relations could be so complicated?
7
"Still, Mr. Trump emphasized the value of the alliance with Saudi Arabia to American military contractors and other firms. “They’ve been a very good ally and they’ve bought massive amounts of various things and investments in this country, which I appreciate."
Why doesn't Trump just send the Crown Prince of Saudi flowers and chocolate or whatever dictators send each other to express their appreciation, and spare the rest of us from his expressions of gratitude for the murder of a resident of the United States of America.
28
Hard to watch the GOP fall flat on their faces supporting Trump. Hard to believe they haven't dumped the dishonest con man.
40
@mayo gubbins, they knew Saudis attacked us and "punished" them by destroying Iraq while Bush Jr let Bin Ladin go. They got two trillion in tax cuts for the rich under Bush Jr and now two trillion more under Trump. They've been drooling to get their paws on social security and Medicare for decades, and Trump's mad fans just may help them do it at last. He's wrecking regulations and opening air, water, land, and wildlife for them to destroy for gain. They love him. He's not pretty or smart but he's bold and ready to make their cruelest dreams come true.
34
MBS would never have attempted this grizzy murder without knowing he had Kushner "in his pocket" and that Trump would defend him no matter what.
MBS can try to blame his heinous crime on some "rogue" General but of course the whole world knows it was directed by the Crown Prince.
MBS's track record of atrocities in Yemen confirms that he is more than capable of directing such a horrible act.
But the revelation of this grizzly assassination surely disqualifies MBS as a respected leader of Saudi Arabia going forward. And Trump should expect more inquiries about his past money (laundering?)
deals with the Saudis.
15
Trump has access to the finest and most complete intelligence information in the world, he receives updates each morning. He normally doesn't even read them but there's no doubt he followed intelligence on this subject closely. He has known that Mr. Khashoggi was murdered, likely since within 48 hours of the murder. Trump is not deferring to the Saudi royal family primarily because of our national interests. He is simply doing what he always does...looking out for his own, and his son-in-law's financial interests.
25
So what is he going to do? Turn off the heat on their floor at Trump's tower or whatever that building is called.
34
I had never heard or seen the name Jamal Khashoggi until I read a few days ago an article in the online magazine L'Orient XXI. The article discusses the events and changes in that country in recent years, especially since Ben Salman took control. The article ends with a quotation of Khashoggi: "Saudi Arabia has not always been so repressive. The situation today has become unsustainable. (insoutenable)" The article in the latest number of the magazine is still available at Orient XXI. info.
8
Trump has been very negative toward journalists that speak out against him and he's monetarily in bed with the Prince. The side show is a disgrace especially using tax payer money to send Pompeo to skirt around at the origins of Mr. Khashoggi's mafia like murder for speaking out against the Prince. The fact that Mr. Khashoggi was also a Virginia resident, which you can't get very much closer to where the president sits, highlights this atrocity the very young Prince had no problem moving forward with as a Trump ally. Mr. Khashoggi's murder should send a message to voters, this is not Italy, this is America, end the nightmare.
7
"This one has caught the imagination of the world, unfortunately"
You can't make this stuff up. Like many other acts, he's disappointed by it becoming a big deal rather than it happening.
15
Trump’s slow on the uptake, but not the rest of us after 9/11.
7
If Saudi Arabia cannot control the Iranian advance in Yemen and elsewhere in the middle east there will be a world war.
Times readers may hate Trump but this business is tricky. Huge tricky nuclear business.
4
This illustrates an old saying among the Trump-like pseudo-wealthy:
"If I own the bank a million dollars I am in trouble. If I own the bank a billion dollars, the bank is in trouble."
Trump has implicitly acknowledged that the Saudis have a hook into him because he thinks that selling stuff and getting money is the bedrock principle of American foreign policy and they have told him that they spend on the order of 100 billion dollars on American military products. This has made Trump incredibly weak in dealing with the Saudis, the weakest of any president in history, and they know it.
If he wants to be a president, and not a hapless middle manager he is going to have to get his mind right.
But what are the odds?
10
This just in - Trump now acknowledges the Earth is round.
25
The FBI will do a quick one week investigation and then seat the prince on the supreme court after being carefully vetted and proven innocent.
18
This guy expressing confidence in intelligence reports is a classic non sequitor!
5
"...,Mr. Kushner has argued that the crown prince can survive the outrage just as he has weathered past criticism."
Why should the US care at all if this creep can weather the criticism, and by this creep I mean Kushner, This guy should be drummed out, of everything to do w/ the USA.
74
"People close to the White House have already been briefed about the plan to assign blame to General Ahmed al-Assiri, a high-ranking adviser to the crown prince."
Why? So they can discuss if it will fly? How they can spin it?
I hope this is not going to develop into a gruesome spectacle of punishing fall guy(s) to get the Prince off the hook. But looks like it's heading that way.
8
I cannot even imagine the pain and suffering Mr. Khashoggi’s family has experienced. And I feel such compassion.
To have Trump mock the murder is utterly sickening.
I have a friend whose husband, a police officer, was shot multiple times by a felon even though the officer never drew his weapon. For the survivors, it has to be tortuous, because the memories live with family members every minute of every day.
12
Trump will do nothing. The Saudi's own him.
31
Did Mr. Bone Saw's autopsy specialist wear head phones that got hacked? I swear, you can't even wear earbuds without outing yourself these days.
11
It's time for American leadership to speak up loud and clear . . . . I am waiting, the world is waiting . . .
8
The article states, "Mr. Pompeo said on Thursday that the United States would give the Saudis a few more days to conduct their investigation." Does anyone honestly believe that the Saudi government is using that time to conduct a credible investigation, and instead needs the time to finish constructing their coverup and/or setting up their fall guy?
10
The rest of us knew that two weeks ago and so did Trump.
58
This just in: In diplomacy sports news, the US has agreed not to impose sanctions against Saudi Arabia for the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, in exchange for $100,000.000 and Saudi Arabia's arrest of a suspect in the killing, to be named later.
13
In a NYTimes opinion piece Madawi al Rasheed, a historian of Saudi Arabia says " King Salman needs to remove Prince Mohammed from his post, admit responsibility for the assassination of Mr. Khashoggi, and face consequences." She also say that the government of Saudi Arabia should begin to take steps toward becoming a constitutional monarchy.
How Khashoggi was murdered is devastating and he is irreplaceable. His loss is very significant to freedom of the press in the Middle East as well as the world.
39
"It's not a positive". Murdering an American Journalist is not a positive. Saudis and Trump killing children in Yemen with American bombs is not a positive. Trump and Saudis making secret deals is not a positive. Investigate Trump and his entanglements with the Saudis. Vote out Republicans so we can actually do something about Trump and the Saudis. Ray Sipe
19
please stop reporting what trump had said... since it didn't have any real meaning - even trump himself won't remember nor being responsible for what he had said.
people should be notified what Trump actually did, and his word only has meaning when used to prove that his action was far from what he said.
I know journalist don't work this way but his word is far less important than his behavior and he is using words as a disruptive smoke to mess with reporters, liberal rivals and audience who don't have clear view. just stop reporting his words…
4
Isn't the head of state / King / Prince / President/ etc. responsible for behavior that occurs inside the country's consulate.... at any location of that consulate or embassy?
In this case, the MSB has totalitarian and unchecked powers to decide who, what, where, and how behavior is conducted into his nation's consulates and embassies. It is absurd to presume the head of state doesn't provide directions/ procedures/ operations' guidance to direct behavior inside his/ her nation's consulate at any location.
It appears Khashoggie was murdered and the Saudi gov't attempted to hide or to cover up the crime.
What a mess and sad ending to a journalist who may have been able to reflect favorably upon his native land.
5
Isolate Saudi Arabia, isolate MBS.
His so many brothers would get rid of him.
MBS is changing Saudi Arabia to the worst, although that is not ssying much, but the brothers and all the royals are threatened by him.
Now that would require American leadership, that is not available.
11
OK. Let's try this one. It was a magic trick gone bad. MBS tried to saw Khashoggi in half, but, well, you can figure out the rest.
3
Come on. An assasination isn't a murder? You could have used the real word but you chose not to. They are our ally? Guns and figher jets and the like are what it's all about. Eisenhower said a more than a half century ago that we should beware the military-industrial complex. He was right. Who do you think you're kidding or lying to?
20
That President of ours is pretty sharp. In a little over two weeks since Mr.
Khashoggi walked into the Saudi embassy in Turkey, but never walked out, our perceptive president figured out Mr. Khashoggi was probably deceased. Amazing! What perceptive powers our President has.
21
Last year or thereabouts, Trump and his Congressional colleagues repealed the long standing prohibition on exporting American crude oil and also sold part of the national supply of oil in the Strategic Oil Reserve. Now we are left with a price increase from 29 dollars per barrel in January 2016 up to about 70 dollars today. We are vulnerable as a result of the Republican profiteering. Had they not taken those steps, the advancements in production would have kept us in an oil glut condition thereby allowing the economy to truly excel with cheap prices for all fossil fuels. These facts may be the cause of Trump's reservations of justice as he has clearly underscored the depth of our reliance on the Saudi's. In addition, Trump has managed to alienate Venezuela who was a large scale supplier of oil to our nation in our own hemisphere. Why does Trump favor directing the escalated oil revenues to Saudi Arabia? What does he gain personally? How will he rethink exporting oil that raised prices and restocking the Strategic Oil Reserves that were sold? Ignore the Congressional outrage that diverts responsibility. Hold Trump responsible for the doubling of oil prices since his taking office. Reverse these stupid actions to make our nation self reliant so we do not have to cower to a foreign power like we are doing now.
21
@Shakinspear
Trump's actions while in office seem to indicate an obsession with fossil fuels and giving Saudi Arabia precedence in oil importing. Saudi Arabia produces about 10 million barrels per day of which about one million are imported here. That represents about 70 million dollars per day or about 25 billion dollars per year of American wealth going to the Saudi's. After four years, the arms contract would be paid......by us!
America consumes under 20 million barrels per day making a loss of Saudi oil only about 5 percent of our needs and if we lost those Saudi imports, prices would rise short term, but could be quickly reduced by ramping up national production, restocking the Strategic reserve, conservation efforts on a national scale, building of green energy infrastructure, and once again prohibiting crude oil exporting, all of which would make us self reliant and immune from import interruptions that are contrary to our strategic defense goals. These steps should be included in the Democrat vernacular for this coming election.
I'm fed up with having a Saudi Damocles Sword precariously perched above my head.
2
The Saudis destroyed the World Trade Center and attacked the Pentagon killing American citizens with impunity back when we had a real government. Does anyone really believe Trump will hold them accountable for killing one of their own?
22
Trump believes that Barack Obama was born in Kenya.
Trump believes that millions voted illegally in 2016.
Trump believes that his inauguration crowd was the largest in history.
Trump believes that asbestos is safe.
Trump believes that global warming is a hoax.
Trump believes that he saw a photo of Ted Cruz's father with Lee Harvey Oswald.
Trump believes Putin when Putin denied interference in the 2016 election.
So I could care less what Trump believes. There are facts. There is evidence. There is a pattern of behavior There is an intelligence service, and there are professionals who know what happened in the Saudi consulate.
This will all come out. Believe me.
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Trump doesn't believe any of those things - belief requires the presence of a conscience and probably even a soul, of which he has neither. Rather, he says he believes things in order to manipulate, deceive and coerce.
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So what is Trump's plan? Buy Iranian oil?
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The Saudi murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi did not capture the world's imagination - it is not simply bad stuff - it's a horrifying murder intended to terrorize reporters into being compliant mouthpieces of the crown prince. Trump deliberately omits any mention of how this is a sickening, violent attack on the free press, because, like the crown prince, he does not believe in a free press. Trump believes the media should be his obedient, grateful mouthpiece too.
Can you imagine Trump penning the Gettysburg address - or believing in its principles of freedom and equality?
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@common sense advocate The only thing Trump writes is bad checks.
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@common sense advocate
Doubt trump every read the Gettysburg Address, knows anything about its content and we certainly know trump does not have any principles or morals.
I head him say several days ago that too bad someone was killed by not worth giving up billions of dollars in sales (paraphrased). trump sees $ where the rest of us see humans.
How many days until Nov. 6th.
I VOTED BY MAIL -- BLUE TSUNAMI IS NEEDED.
GET OUR COUNTRY HONEST, MORAL, COMPASSIONATE AGAIN.
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So Trump thinks it's "unfortunate that this one has caught the imagination of the world". It's unfortunate that a human being died in this way. It's unfortunate that thousands have died in Yemen, while the Trump Administration turned a blind eye. And they were killed with weapons purchased from the US>
The way he described it sounded to me like he feels it's "unfortunate" that he can't continue to carry on with the Saudis as if nothing had happened.
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Mike Pompeo stated Trump's position yesterday as well as anyone can, that in the world of The Donald, we have 'other things to consider' than the brutal death and dismemberment of an American reporter, 'financial considerations', and at the top of the list, arms sales to the Saudis in the billions.
In the world of Trump, that is All that matters, the almighty dollar, and how to get as many of them as possible. The taking of a human life is secondary to him and those of like mind, very secondary.
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In 2017, Trump, believe it or not, demonstrated compassion for the crisis in Yemen, even suggesting to Theresa May in a phone call that they must apply pressure to MBS to halt the war. CNN reported he was "fired up" about the whole thing.
For some reason Trump has changed his tune and has really quite warmed up to SA. I suspect it has to do with Bibi.
It disturbs me how malleable our president is.
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@GG As many commenters have stated, Trump goes along with the opinion of the last person with whom he has shared a conversation.
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"Mr. Pompeo said on Thursday that the United States would give the Saudis a few more days to conduct their investigation."
"Mr. Pompeo said on Thursday that the United States would give the Saudis a few more days to create an alibi and more excuses."
There, I fixed it.
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Now that the commentators are having a field day faulting Trump (I didn't know Trump was actually at the Saudi consulate in Turkey) let's take a step back and ask the questions any detective would: Who stands to benefit most from Khashoggi's apparent (not yet proven) murder, and who benefits the most if the Saudi royal prince gets the blame?
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@Mark Shyres
MBS will blame the "rogue General" and thus be declared innocent by Trump!
But as the whole world watches Trump and Pompeo work with MBS to concoct this fabricated story line even Trump lover, Lindsay Graham, says, MBS "is a wrecking ball. He had this guy murdered in a consulate in Turkey, and to expect me to ignore it? I feel used and abused.” He “can never be a world leader on the world stage.”
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Trump's only real concern is not losing his personal financial gain from what the Saudis spend on Trump properties, and the potential developments for him within Saudi Arabia. Anything his son-in-law 'gets' is just an added bonus. It's Trump, as always.
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From reading his comments in this article, it sounds like this is a pain for Trump because of the international and domestic attention it's getting and not because an innocent man's fingers and head were cut off.
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Above and beyond the mixed national and personal interests that are in play, this is Trump's first real international crisis. What is apparent is that neither he or his adminstration has a clue how to react. Fortunately, this is a small and (hopefully) contained crisis, but we now know what will happen (or more accurately not happen) if a big crisis hits. Trump et al will respond like a deer in the headlights, and that's the best case scenario.
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"Mr. Pompeo said on Thursday that the United States would give the Saudis a few more days to conduct their investigation."
Translation:
Mr. Pompeo said on Thursday that the United States would give the Saudis a few more days to concoct a story, destroy evidence and find a scapegoat.
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