Here we go. A possible Democratic candidate with a solid background stands up for herself and gets pummeled by a concerned Republican/conservative columnist. It is especially obvious that the candidate is a woman who has the audacity to defend herself and stand up to Trump. This columnist is an enabler of Trump and the GOP's bullying behavior.
50
I am very concerned the DNC has not fully absorbed the lessons of '16 regarding the electorate's repudiation of identity politics. I admire Ms. Warren's stance on Wall St but stooping to this level is just not tactically smart. Listen, nobody cares about your DNA test results? Please stay on focus with POLICY, will you go after tax loopholes, will you crack down on tax havens, will you hold China's feet to the fire regarding trade or continue to capitulate like all of your corporatist Dem predecessors. This entire deal smacks of hurt pride and Trump Derangement Syndrome, just a petty thing to prove Press Trump incorrect on infinitesimal dearest, I doubt Press Obama would have bothered sparring w Pres Trump on such an issue. DNC is staring 4 more years of Pres Trump in the face, they need a little bit better introspection and understanding of why they lost in '16
16
Elizabeth Warren had every right to prove that her grandmother DIDN'T LIE when Trump jeeringly claimed she did.
Remember, Trump also jeeringly claimed Senator Cruz's father was some kind of assassin. Someone needs to stand up to this guy who puts ugly, lying slurs against his opponents' parents and grandparents just to shake them up for a cheap shot "win".
I say good for her! If some creep of a politician claimed one of my grandparents lied, I'd have done the same. Isn't honoring your mother and father one of the Ten Commandments? I think grandmothers and grandfathers should be included in the spirit of the fifth commandment.
Since when are Conservatives against the Ten Commandments?
24
I’ve never agreed with Douthat about much of anything, but he nailed this one. What an ill-conceived, clumsy, poorly timed effort by Warren. I like her as a Senator, haven’t thought much of her as prime Presidential choice. Now sure of it. Next contestant!
26
The way to fight a bully is to go on the offensive. As soon as someone being attacked has to defend themselves or provide an explanation the game is over. The bully wins. The person being bullied presumably has some sense of honesty and honor. The bully obviously has none. Attempting to prove the bully's lack of truthfulness is a big mistake. No one expects the bully to be truthful.
Fighting a bully means neither answering their taunts or sinking to their level. Beating the bully by necessity involves a spark of creativity. Without that counter force, the bullies of patriarchy win every time.
12
Warren called Trump's bluff. She responded to Trump's challenge that she should produce a DNA test to support the family lore that she has some Native American origins. So now he will be forced to wriggle out of his promise to donate $1 million to the charity of her choice. The selection of her charity choice could be juicy ~ but you can bet YOUR bottom dollar that he'll never pay a penny of it. Corporal Bone Spurs has really stepped into it here.
16
I am beginning to understand more clearly why trump supporters are so fed up with what they call politically correct liberalism. They and trump have turned this peculiar self destructive impulse into a political weapon that, in this case, can literally destroy the candidacy of someone eminently qualified to be president. No republican candidate could have been so summarily disqualified by such a nuanced error. If you want to be in the ultra liberal club you have to be very careful to not break the impossibly convoluted rules of engagement or you are out. As you might suspect, I am getting really fed up with this childish yet surprisingly destructive game. The republicans have successfully exploited their alliance with evangelicals. Sadly the democrats have allowed a self destructive impossibly convoluted religion of self censorship to become synonymous with the democratic agenda. I have legitimate fears that they will be our undoing. This election is too important to lose over pouting adolescent angst masquerading in the guise of a political philosophy.
4
We need to be clear about something: Senator Warren was not claiming to be Native American, nor a member of the Cherokee tribe. She claimed to have had some Native American ancestry, and the DNA test appears to bear that out.
Similarly, I have some Jewish ancestry (my paternal grandmother's paternal grandmother was Jewish), but I don't for one minute claim to be Jewish.
16
She’s through as far as running though she’s great but it’s not happening. It’s Kamala Harris time. Smart, credible and accomplished. Tough enough to stand up to Trump when he attacks her as a woman, her looks and her parents, Indian mother and Jamaican father. Smart parents scientific research and professor couple. She’s tough enough, more than anyone else in the horizon. Unlike Trump she’s a lawyer, an advocate, a humanist and filled with fact and empathy.
8
Douthat has never been a fan of Warren and he's wrong about this as well. If Warren is, hopefully, the nominee in 2020 and Trump is not in jail, what sane person would deny that Trump would use her "unfounded" claim as a spectacular intro to every statement he utters about Warren. Instead, getting the claim on firmer ground well ahead of that election takes most, if not all, of the air out of Trump's lazy punchline and obvious deflection from his countless provable lies with his tribe on the stump. Good job, Senator.
9
Yeah Ross this is heartbreaking.
You admit that Warren has thoughtful ideas about how to improve the country (you liked her book about foreclosure), and you know that she has history of working across party lines to advance legislation to improve her constituents' lives.
Do you:
(1) Write about whether or not you would support her political ambitions based on her policy track record and increasing national prominence
(2) Write that she made a mistake by hyperfocusing on the gladiatorial combat of politics, while you yourself also hyperfocus on the endless fight, ignoring the issues.
You went with #2. Do you feel good about that Ross? Do you think you're improving American discourse?
28
So basically, Warren made the "mistake" of taking an old family story (which turned out to be true) at face value and talking about it occasionally.
The President of the United States of America publicly called her a liar and mocked her as "Pocahontas," insulting not just her but also other people of Native American ancestry in the process. He even made a million dollar bet over it.
And now it turns out she was right all along and Trump is reneging on his word, *again*.
How on earth is anything else the story here? Warren did not and does not claim to have tribal affiliation. Harvard and Penn have both debunked the idea that she profited from this career-wise. She repeated the kind of family story that many of us have and was publicly mocked by the President. But in fact, it turned out she was right and, surprise, the President won't stand by his word.
Douthat is trying to define the situation as a Catch-22 to distract from the president's hypocrisy and his own. Trump lied. Douthat is intentionally misleading the Times' readers when he repeats debunked claims about career gain. But Warren should have "expressed mild regret" for the truth?
I wish I could say that the author's disdain for truth and fact is surprising, but it isn't any more.
22
Slow... clap... Ross... very... clever...
Here we go again. The common sense narrative here is that whatever claims Elizabeth Warren made about Native American ancestry in her academic career, they don't have much bearing on her political career. Except to bad faith conservative actors. Without much else to beat Elizabeth Warren up about, they seize on this. It was all Scott Brown could talk about in 2012, because he had zero ideas. It's all Trump can say about Warren. Warren tried to ignore it as best she could, but she also took a lesson from John Kerry's Swift Boating and Barack Obama's reluctant birth certificate release.
So Warren finally demonstrates that what she has been saying is likely true, but of course every member of the media -- not just Fox State News -- has to beat her up about it. Just like the media did with Hillary and her emails.
That has worked out great for all of us, thanks guys.
30
Hmmmm. So how can we spin this? Turns out Elizabeth Warren was right after all and she actually does have some native American ancestry. But she’s still not actually a card carrying Cherokee because, um, well, the Cherokee Nation has strict requirements that she does not meet. That’s it. Let’s just say the whole thing is a politically inept fiasco and see how it plays.
10
But I think a case should be made for Trump paying up on the bet he waged. Show him up for not keeping his word.
9
I do remember the department chair at my university prowling the halls trying to find faculty members he could list as minorities. He actually listed a colleague of mine as handicapped, without his consent and much to his embarrassment and indignation.
10
But when Trump comes up (again as her certainly will) with the Pocahontas jibe, She will have a quick rejoinder, and move on. She will probably have to do that a few times until Trump's e entire minions find it doesn't work.
In retrospect, Obama should have flooded the internet with copies of his birth certificate to nip the lie that he was born in a foreign country, in the bud. Warren is trying to settle this canard up front and will counter attack with with the DNA test if the Pocahontas lie comes up again.
6
How many lies did DJ Trump tell today?
Doesn’t matter. The important thing is chastising Sen. Warren for... daring to prove that she does indeed have Native American ancestors?
A hundred monkeys and a hundred typewriters may not be capable of producing a Shakespeare play, but they would make a better columnist than Ross Douthat.
24
Sen. Warren is the woman Trump should have married.
4
Why don't we look at Trump's phoney Swedish heritage when for years he pretended to be a Swede at the urging of his Sugar Daddy who didn't want to be identified as German. Maybe we should call him Sven Fredricksohn Trump. If Warren had a pebble of misinformation regarding this matter its nothing compared to the sandy beach of Trump lies. Journalists should help us remember this at every chance they get.
12
“…In which case it was the schools’ eagerness to turn a woman they had hired on the merits into an embodiment of an essentially phony diversity that was the real problem…
Not even 500 words later…
“…she should not have publicized it; having publicized it, she should quietly fire anyone who urged this gambit and move on…
Ross, let me get this straight…
You are saying EW should fire Harvard???
The only people who’ve done that and lived to tell are named Zuckerberg and Gates…
In almost every other case, it’s Harvard doing the sacking…
Whether you’re president of the place or a prospective freshman – if Harvard doesn’t like you, it’s as if you don’t exist…
And never did – and never should have…
In any case, the utility of this precedent – in the lingo of their Tribe's legalism – is ginormous…
From now on Harvard will have Darwinian air cover…
If you have a really unlikable person in your ancestry – even a single one, 6-10 generations back…
Might as well go back to where you came from…
Unless you’re already there…
PS
Somewhere in Shanghai, even as we sleep, Cherokee DNA is being quietly and crisprly resurrected…
Warren loses? Says who?! How absolutely NUTS that if anyone responds to any of the endless, stomach turning, sub-human, misogynist, and all around deviant attacks care of Mr Trump, --they deserve more public scorn than him. Pure schoolyard. Precisely the wimps who won't take on the big Bully, Liar n Chief, directly-- for fear of his compulsive penchant for Scorch and Burn Revenge, (which seems to get him out of bed in the morning), feel so empowered, like tiny pilot fish, to only pounce upon his prey! Ross, your party elected and supports Donald Trump - a man who is currently, (and not surprisingly), standing behind a Saudi Prince who makes Isis look like groupies of Mr Rogers, -- and whose words and actions have been nothing short of a giant Green light. But hey, --let's go after Elizabeth Warren. Shameless.-- Donald needs to pay her the Million bucks he publically vowed-- and she would undoubtely pass it on to any of the tribes she might have offended.
13
Senator Brown of Ohio......enough said.
Ross' analysis of Elizabeth Warren's fatal-to-the-presidential-aspirations error here is, unfortunately, accurate. She just got rope-a-doped by Trump because whether she actually has Native American blood is and has always been totally irrelevant to the real point that he is making -- that she's a phony. Look at this white woman, he crows --the whitest woman anyone has ever seen in their life, who has undoubtedly never experienced a moment's hardship as a result of her "Native American" appearance, or experience, but she stands by silently and reaps minority cred while Harvard touts her as a minority (bad) or represents herself to Harvard et al. as a minority (worse).
19
I'm ending my subscription to the NYT to protest the NYT's ignoring or mocking politicians and intellectuals guilty of the slightest display of progressive values. I want a refund.
4
Warren taking that DNA test was a mistake. It calls to mind the old saying about wrestling with a pig... you get a dirty, and the pig likes. Warren should have been savvy enough to not let Trump bait her into getting the test. As it was, every time Trump called her 'Pochantas' he was slurring Native Americans (I wonder what they have in common with every other ethnic or racial group Trump slurs... oh, that's right, they're not white). So Warren would have been much better off to 'take the high ground' and ignore Trump (it doesn't make him any better, but ignoring him is just what he merits). Warren's test results are little but statistical 'noise' - it seems uncertain if there is any more Native American ancestory in her background than in any five random people off the street. And while Republicans might howl about her using her "questionable Native American status" to get her university position, such a lie pales in comparison to the thousands (thousands!) of verifiable lies Trump has made so far. Warren would have been much better off ignoring Trump -- there was no way, even had her father been Sitting Bull, that Trump would ever actually pay the million he promised to any charity - except perhaps the Trump Foundation "charity". Still, questionable ancestory and all, Warren is about 500-times more qualified to be president than Trump - and every day Trump proves that again.
3
It is still hilarious that Trump riffed on Warren as “Pocahontas”. Just like his response to Hillary Clinton during the debates when she called him out on his taxes and he said "That makes me smart!"
This is exactly the kind of DJT non-PC gibe that horrifies the pointed-headed intellectual elitist of the NYT's.
Yet, in the rest of America, this is called 'keeping it real'. Not as an insult against Native Americans, but as a rightful attack on identity politics that is benefit privileged minority 1%'s in their competition with equally privileged white 1%'s. A pox on both sets of 1%'s as they sneer at the 99% whether white, black, Hispanic, Native American or any other ethnic group.
You go Donald!
8
The only ‘fiasco’ to this story is that we have an inept clown in the White House.
10
So Trump keeps his "contract" with Warren the same way he does with his small contractors in his business: He lies and welshes. Warren can't sue for breach of contract, but voters can settle it out of court. I'm fed up with his lies and smart-aleck, dirty mouth.
6
The only fiasco here is the time you and other reporters have spent on making this "an issue".
Move on and write a column on something that really matters.
7
I think Warren should develop the practice of laughing at his deficiencies every time he opens his idiotic bouche. She should hire a staff of comics. Stormy Daniels had a good response to being called horse faced. Shut him up right quick. You can be a serious person of integrity and use the argot of an unserious moral louse.
1
Trump is a classic bully and like all bulllies, possesses a preternatural ability to identify a target’s weakness and exploit the heck out of it - even if it doesn’t make sense or is no longer applicable.
Telling a bully “I’m not fat!” won’t silence him - it will only encourage him because he sees that that’s the issue where you feel the most vulnerable.
Elizabeth Warren going through this silly DNA thing just throws red meat at this beastly bully. It’s anti productive and distracting.
Never wrestle a pig - you can’t win and the pig enjoys it.
4
Douthat says..."When this story first surfaced six years ago, I wrote that it was more embarrassing for the Ivy League than for Warren.". So, hold on a minute, Ross Douthat has previously written a hit piece on Warren!?
I understand that the NYTimes is trying to be inclusive here with this opinion article, but the logic presented is middle school level.
Sad to see this is what the great United States has become... a big show for clowns and haters... all amongst a greater population of really good people.
It shouldn't matter anymore, what your opinion may be, but rather how willing you are to consider arguments in a fair manner without letting your bias do the talking.
Sad article. Sad thinking. Sad times.
4
This is unnecessarily harsh - bordering on sneering.
She is the poster child for "damned if she does and damned if she doesn't." Letting Trump walk all over her and everything she holds dear is awful. At least she fights back.
Those who remain silent while he insults people and acts the bully baby-man are tacitly condoning that behavior.
On the other hand even though she did not claim tribal membership it is a delicate subject. Even for those born on the reservation belonging can be a perilous claim, and can be subject to pitiless condemnation: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/06/native-american-disenrollmen...
3
Warren is currently running for the Senate here in Massachusetts. I think she has been a good Senator, and that her skills and passion would best be served in the Senate. Please, Elizabeth, don't run for President. We will have four more years of Trump, and perhaps when enough of his base has been hurt by him and the Republican Party, they'll be more amenable to someone who isn't solely interested in lining his own pockets, in selling off the Presidency and the government to the highest bidders, and who actually cares about ordinary Americans, not just the billionaires. You have a snowball's chance in hell of winning the Presidency (and I would vote you) because compassion for and wanting to help the little guy are not qualities that red America wants in a President. But you can win in MA, and keep fighting the good fight for us.
As for the DNA test, yes, you're damned if you (mocked and ridiculed because now the Bully In Chief will find something else in it to pick on you) and damned if you (he'll mock and ridicule you, sow doubt and distrust for his base if you didn't take the test and release the results). You can't win, and while I generally think that sometimes you have to stand up on your hind legs and fight, this is one of those fights that you should ignore. The DNA test proves what you already knew--that a number of generations back in your family there was intermarriage with Native Americans.
3
This hoopla by the literati over Sen. Warren's "fiasco" recalls what was done to Howard Dean. Dean lets loose with a jubilant, heartfelt whoop of excitement and he's virtually condemned for being angrily unhinged.
If ever there was the perfect example of much ado about nothing, in both cases, I can think of none better.
We've got a chief executive working like a demented beaver to dam(n) up our democracy. Our heritage and our future are on the line right now and deserve far more attention than Sen. Warren's ancestry. I'm pretty certain she would agree.
8
Senator Warren does not belong in the loser's gallery. She's about to kick Trump's butt. It'd be best if other Democrats backed her up.
5
Trump: Obama wasn't born in Hawaii. People in Hawaii are looking and finding incredible things.
Obama: Here's my birth certificate.
Trump: [no actions, contemplates his next lies]
***
Trump: Elizabeth Warren Pocahontas claims Native American Ancestry. She's just a big fake. I'll give a million dollars to the charity of her choice if she takes a genealogy DNA test which shows she has Native ancestry.
Warren: Here's the test results. Pay up.
Trump: [no actions, contemplates his next lies]
Democrats, doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is a sign of what?
4
I hope the Democrats do not fall into the trap of accusing each other of this and that. What they must learn are the tricks of marketing and image creation, but certainly, the only sin of playing into Trump hands is to start bickering among themselves. Trump is vulnerable, by ignoring him, and by mocking him. We also need to attack with a clear head, and not complain about stupid things when Trump represents the ruin of our democracy. It s as if we have to write an opinion piece just because... and damn the consequences.
2
Of all the fumbles of any candidate...this one lands just at 5.5 seconds in the 5 second rule. Don't pick it up and eat it.
This is truly being blown out of proportion.
Why? Because as usual, the media is letting Trump and TrumpTV own the narrative. As they did in 2016.
If Trump says it, denies it, then says it again and Trump TV runs around like children with a bag of candy...its the whole focus of the news cycles, and this piece is among many obsessing on what is nothing truly important.
Big deal, Warren actually has native American ancestry. Genetic links to native Americans. This proves Trump and all the others on this bandwagon wrong. Period. Stop.
If and when she played it up, it was a fumble. A despicable one? Not for me. The pu**y grabbing, now that's despicable. The Charlottesville shame? Despicable. The horseface insults? Despicable. The prolific lies Hannity spewed about Benghazi, and dozens of other things. Despicable.
This is a simple fumble. A dopey one. And zero people got hurt.
What Trump is now doing re; Saudi Arabia, MBS, and the torture/murder of Khashoggi. Despicable.
Douthat, you're doing Trumps work.
7
The focus on ancestry, white, black, red or yellow, is rather irrelevant because as geneticists will tell you, one doesn't have to go that far back before practically everyone on earth, whether saint or murderer or neither, is an ancestor. See https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19331938.
If you have ever tried to win an argument with a street wise but otherwise ignorant juvenile, or in this case, juvenile delinquent, you know exactly how difficult it is to argue with Trump and his reptilian base. Once they have you labeled, you're labeled. They don't need facts. Elizabeth Warren wasn’t raised this way. It is no shame to her that she was bested by them. She certainly wasn't the first.
The only way to deal with Trump and his ilk, is with patient condescension and ruthless finality. Ignore them in public but bury them deep at your first opportunity and be sure to have all your allies there to back you up. Trump and his sycophants are clearly up to no good. If we want to live in a decent community, nation and world, we can't afford to play around with these "individuals". Don't even think about playing their game. Fire them, gag them, jail them, and push them out of all respectable institutions. How would you treat a habitual liar or thief if one was in your employment? You would fire him or her immediately of course. Trump has never held a job until now, and never could. No one would put up with him. When "individuals" like these rise to positions of power and influence, taking them down becomes even more critical. Mueller along with other decent Americans need to roust these "individuals" out of the White House. Then get the place fumigated.
Dumb take. Trump was going to call her Pocahontas forever anyway. From now on the "both sides" media can now say "but Warren proved she has Native American ancestry and Trump welshed on his bet". Big win for Sen. Warren. Now she can talk about the stressed out middle class.
2
This is insane. She didn't claim to be Native American, she didn't say she identified as a Native American. She said that family lore was that she had a Native American ancestor. Trump ridiculed her and insulted Native Americans. He offered to donate $1 to charity if she took the test and if it supported her statements. She did, it did, and now everyone is having conniptions. I don't get it.
4
I don’t care one iota about this manufactured outrage. Elizabeth warren is one of the very few politicians who can be called an authentic public servant because she is not afraid to tell the American people what a corrupt financial system we have. She has OUR backs, so I’ll have hers.
8
Funny how 'The Trump Swamp' has a way of tempting, then slyly seducing those who should know better. Fortunately, there is one common antidote to this condition, provided it is taken either before the incident occurs or shortly thereafter. Such immunity simply requires speaking the truths of his illegitimacy, corruption and collusion with a sworn enemy of his country (to name just a few) to the bully who spews untruths about his enemies. Speaking at least 3 truths a day to someone who's been caught lying an average of 15 times a day since he took office is the best way to rid us all of this terrible plague.
Vote as if your health and your life depend on it.
Because they do.
Did anyone listen to the interview of Chuck Hoskin, Cherokee Nation secretary of state on National Public Radio the other day, which he talks about how way a person is claiming to part Cherokee is legitimately deemed has Cherokee heritage.
"CHUCK HOSKIN: Well, first of all, we - DNA is completely irrelevant to the process, but our process is essentially that a person living today would need to trace back to a turn-of-the-20th-century census of Cherokees living in what was to become northeast Oklahoma that's known as the Dawes Rolls - D-A-W-E-S. "
If not, here is the link:
https://www.npr.org/2018/10/16/657749867/determining-who-is-a-cherokee-i...
How can we take this column seriously?
Douthat argues that it's okay, even politically brilliant and effective for an American president to use the name of a Native American historical figure as a term of derision and scorn for a policial opponent.
Worse, the president accuses her of lying and proclaims to his cheering Republican believers that he will bet a million dollars that her claim of Indian ancestry is false.
Senator Warren proves her claim to be true and Douthat, rather than condemn the mendacious Trump for being caught iying for the five thousandth time, assails her for revealing it. And of course he now welshes and denies making his million dollar offer.
How can it ever be better to let a lie go unchallenged by the truth? How can the use of Pocahontas as a term of derision be tolerated and even applauded by Americans. Douthat may think Trumpism is triumphing over truth but that is not the America we want for our future.
Stick we truth, Senator Warren. It will also keep us free.
1
Her policies are so similar to Hugo Chavez', that it's frightening. He led Venezuela from prosperity to disaster in a single generation of socialism. Let's be careful what we wish for. Capitalism ain't perfect, but its far better than any alternatives. Warren makes me shudder.
6
I have great respect for Elizabeth Warren. She makes a great Senator. But sadly, this may well end up being her own personal "Wounded Knee." The evil Trump laid a trap and she walked right into it.
When she saw the result of the DNA test and the teeny tiny bit of native American it showed, she should have put it in a safe and marked it "highly classified" and then swore every person who knew about it to secrecy...a non-disclosure agreement of sorts.
Even Trump would have respected that, being that he seemingly has one with every woman he's ever said hello to.
She shouldn't run for President. Even though she's a fighter. her appearance hints at frail and vulnerable for a big number of people and she'd never attract the votes of voters who want a seemingly strong President...even if the "strong" actually means an insecure blowhard who bleaches his manufactured hair do blond and dyes his skin orange.
1
You make a good point about how badly she handled this but I think it's a bit much to call this a fiasco. Bad judgment on her part but hardly fatal.
Good grief. Warren was not in any way shape or form raised in any sort of Native American culture. Her DNA tests show that at best she has slightly more NA DNA than the avg European American -- but more likely less -- particularly when you take into consideration that any European Americans who have been here for several decades likely have as much or more NA DNA as her "test" shows. Her claim to be NA is absurd.
But the real issue isn't the DNA test as much as where does she get off claiming to be Native American? Why did she do it? What advantage has she gained?
And, if you are looking at this from a political perspective (who wouldn't) it is clear she completely mishandled this. And what kind of person does this?
4
What I find fascinating about conservative pundits is that they spend so much time criticizing and dissecting the liberal democratic left and not enough time extolling and analyzing the policies of their very own right leaning conservative tribe. Could that be because their tribe, ie the GOP conservatives have nothing worth saying?
3
Way to go, Ross. You have declared that she loses, so clearly she did.
I love it when hard-right conservatives get to decide about Democrats and about liberal policies. They know so much about us!
3
One thing she failed to recognize is that great young Native writers are coming up now whose work sweeps her quaintly romanticized notion of Indian ancestry into the dustbin. Smart people are thinking hard about their issues. It would have been better for her to spend her time reading "There There" by Tommy Orange than to spend it on this test.
1
Folks,
Warren turned the tables on Trump. Trump made a bet and now he is reneging on it. "Corporal Bone Spurs" is very funny and most likely gets under Trump's skin, but so will "Cheating Trump." There is a lot of mileage to be had here, and Warren knows how to get it.
2
Warren is testing the waters for a presidential run and she's getting berned like Bernie Sanders, too liberal, too honest, and too tough for establishment politics.
The Right's one-two punch:
1) Go bananas!
2) In response to #1: wait for the Left to run someone who is in some way amputated; that is, someone—inny or outy—who is guaranteed to alienate whole swaths of the country before things even get started.
Elizabeth Warren: the very thought makes me want to eat a bowl of comfort cereal.
1
Warren was accused of lying about her ancestry. She took a DNA test to establish the facts. Good on her.
It is a sign of degraded public discourse that her transparent, fact-based approach is being criticized.
2
I'd say she proved that, but I heard she claimed much more:
"...there is some native american blood in her ancestry."
I've read that Elizabeth Warren told both Penn and Harvard that she was a "woman of color." Having 1/64 or 1/1,024 Native American blood in your veins falls far short of that, as she knew or should have known. She shouldn't have told Penn and Harvard she was a "woman of color," nor let either school claim that.
5
The DNA test would be more convincing if Warren announced her intention to take it and if she demonstrated that the sample was hers and that the chain of custody was maintained.
As to trading on a tenuous Native American heritage, her Penn professorship preceded, and likely opened the door, to Harvard. Her official Penn biography states that she is a Native American even as she denies identifying as a Native American. As real Native Americans, the Tuscarora, put it, "Those who have one foot in the canoe, and one foot in the boat, are going to fall into the river."
6
However Douthat tried to spin it, the analysis in this column is completely wrong. Warren never claimed to be native American or legitimately able to be enrolled in a tribe. She only said she had native American ancestry after Trump said she was lying about it. She has now proved that she wasn't with DNA evidence. If Trump keeps talking about it, she can just respond that he was lying about her ancestry and she proved him wrong.
BTW, I am not a fan of Elizabeth Warren for president. The Democratic Party already tried a divisive, elderly, blonde female as its Presidential candidate, and we don't need two in a row. But as in so many other areas, Trump was not telling the truth when he ridiculed her ancestry, and she should point that out if she wants to.
1
I voted for Clinton. I despise Trump. I want so badly to vote against Trump in 2020.
But I really, really don't like Elizabeth Warren. I find her ideologically too left and far too confrontational and smug. I don't want a crusader as president; I want someone who can effectively manage the country and work across the aisle ( or at least attempt to). I don't want someone divisive. We have had enough of that already.
I deeply hope that my choice in two years isn't between Trump and Warren because I might just end up leaving the top of the ticket blank or writing in a name.
The Democratic Party can do better.
10
You’re absolutely right. She should have said exactly what you say, and moved the discourse to a higher plane. Sadly — I say this as, among other things, a Democrat — she got sucked into the internecine inanity of identity politics, and doubled down on the wrong bet. Like many bad bets — for example, the subprime mortgages she compared to exploding toasters — her own bad bet blew up in her face. Well, unlike subprime borrowers, she can’t claim to have been hoodwinked. This explosion is self-detonated.
8
The takeaway: Elizabeth Warren is at most 1.56% Native American.
So, yes, the legends of Warren’s family have a factual basis and Trump was wrong to brand her a liar.
But on the other hand, neither Warren not anyone else should attempt to characterize her as a Native American or as “a woman of color.”
Beyond these obvious findings, this is a tempest in a teapot.
5
Has our politics declined so much that this could seriously damage a candidate? There are real problems to solve in this country, and this is what we spend our time talking about? Elizabeth Warren never said to vote for her because she has Native American heritage...it seems like the only folks talking about this are pundits. Give me a break...
6
It did not "prove" anything. There is not enough date in the database to "prove" things. There is "strong indications" (whatever that might be) of some Native genes in the far past. Basically nothing.
1
Trump is doing what he does best as a so-called "businessman:" Ducking and reneging on his obligations. Just like he did to his tenants and contractors he owed money when he declared multiple bankruptcies
4
I, an academic liberal (raised Republican), asked my main Republican friend and source back in 2016 if he was supporting Trump. His reply was, "What, do I look like I'm on drugs?" I asked who he liked, and he said, "You know, I like what Elizabeth Warren says."
I found that surprising, but many things going on in the world today surprise me. I will have to ask him tomorrow how he feels right now.
1
Elizabeth Warren is right to claim this as part of her heritage. When Alex Haley made a big literary splash with the book Roots much of the premise and Narrative was based on his family's oral history as passed down and told through many generations. At that time "mid 1960's" DNA did not exist so Professor Haley traveled over to the continent of Africa to research and investigate.He found the tribal elder who was designated as the historian of that tribe and embedded in the very lengthy retelling of the history of that village was the tale of the disappearance of a young boy named Kunta Kinte. Haley had found his Great Grandfather more than half a dozen generations back. Senator Warren's claim is similarly based on family oral history and she is lucky she had Science to connect the historical and familial dots.
9
It shouldn’t be a foregone conclusion that Warren is going to be the Democratic candidate. I think a lot of the people she’ll need to vote for her are, unfortunately, going to see her as Hillary 2.0–establishment Democrat. If that’s not her, she needs to make it very clear. If that is her, someone else should take the Dem ticket.
1
Elizabeth Warren knew exactly what she was doing when she took that DNA test, which was defusing the issue well ahead of her formal declaration that she's running for president. The progressives have now done their sniping and the conservatives have done their mocking, but the whole thing will have blown over in a week. She's not the one who fell into a trap. Trump fell into his own trap, by denying that he'd ever promised to give a million dollars to her favorite charity if she took the test and it showed she had some native ancestry. If he continues to call her Pocahontas, he will immediately be asked why he still hasn't written that check to the National Indigenous Women's Resource Center. And he certainly won't be raising the issue in any future debate, as he had threatened to do and, if she hadn't taken the test, might well have done. Pretty clever move on her part, I'd say.
3
Mr. Douthat continues to surprise me with his fairly balanced column pieces that, though coming from the perspective of an admitted right-of-center mind, are worthwhile reads for anyone willing to try to see all sides of an issue. As always, though, I wonder where this Ross Douthat was back when Barack Obama was president and the GOP could have used some rational criticism from some of their own.
I am a politically active liberal who generally admires Senator Warren and is deeply embarrassed by the actions and behavior of President Trump. But I find myself absolutely agreeing with Mr. Douthat that the DNA test and subsequent publicity amounts to an own goal. I have little to add to what Mr. Douthat has written, in terms of how I believe Senator Warren should have addressed the entire issue. He is 100% correct.
8
Whatever.
If Trump was an honorable person, if he had even a smidgen of humility and maybe a dash of self-denigrating humor, he would pony up the $1M (which after all was supposed to be a charitable contribution, not a donation to Warren's campaign fund). Doing so he would possibly gain more politically than by doing what he is doing - taking more mean-spirited jabs at Warren (for what purpose?) and appearing to be the kind of rogue who will not pay off on a bet.
But of course taking that route would take more character than he possesses.
3
Instead of worrying about how much native American DNA Elizabeth Warren has, how about a column on the huge increase in deficit the latest Republican tax bill is giving us.
The projected deficit before the Ryan / McConnell / Trump tax bill was $600 Billion.
That is expected to almost double to $1 Trillion by 2020.
And this is after eight years of Republicans complaining about the debt under Obama.
And Obama was giving a whopping $1.4 Trillion deficit from W Bush along with the worst recession since the Great Depression.
And Obama cut that deficit by almost 2/3 to $550 Billion.
And with W Bush's two "tax cuts for the job creators, we go 3 Million jobs.
After getting us through the Great Recession, and with the "jobs killing" Obama care, we got 11.5 Million jobs, almost 400% more than W Bush.
And 20 Million people got healthcare.
The expected increase in debt over the next 10 years is $12 Trillion which is about $80,000 per taxpayer.
And every Republican senator voted for this bill.
Not one Democratic senator voted for this bill.
Please write a column about this Mr. Douthat.
23
In the big scheme of things, Elizabeth Warren would still make a better President than Trump. Granted, that's a low bar. However, it is low standard she greatly exceeds in every way.
19
Seems to me it all depends on what Elizabeth Warren told Harvard and Penn. Both schools claimed she is a "woman of color." Did she tell them that? Or did she merely say she had (or at least had heard she had) some Native American blood in her. If that's all she told Harvard and Penn, it's not her fault if either school (or both) exaggerated that into a claim that she is a "woman of color" (though she nevertheless should have considered correcting them). But if she claimed to be a "woman of color" and Harvard and Penn merely repeated her claim, the onus is on her, not them.
11
There is no dispute that she did, indeed, tell them that.
7
@MyThreeCents
If she was convinced that she had Native American blood, as her grand-mother told her (and many times it's only family histories that determine whether you are or not), she was perfectly right to claim that she's a woman of color - after all, that's what the "one-drop-rule" has always done to white people with some black or Native American blood somewhere in their ancestry.
It's particularly disgusting to see that today the party that publicly support white supremacists somehow finds it troubling that Warren took her grandmother seriously and used the same white supremacists rules that would have condemned her to a life without any opportunities just a couple of decades ago still.
Conclusion: conservatives have lost their moral compass. For that reason alone, any citizen still interested in "moral values" should massively support Warren.
A person may have the talent to be President, but not at becoming President. If if you're not a natural athlete forget about playing in the NBA playoffs, if you're not a natural politician forget about running for president. Warren fell for an old playground bully tease which a natural politician would have easily swatted away. Like Hillary Clinton, Elizabeth Warren has the makings to be a great president but apparently, also like Hillary, does not have the natural political talent needed to be elected president. If so she should step out of the way. We need a real street fighter to take on Trump and the Republican machine.
19
Kamala Harris can do the job!
@walkman: I don't know any woman who can counter Trump's primitive macho act. That's what his fans love about him.
@walkman
"We need a real street fighter to take on Trump and the Republican machine."
Very true and very sad.
Agreed, playing Trump’s malicious game is a tough challenge. And the fact that you don’t need a DNA test to know what kind of a dangerous, miserable person Trump is seems to be of no significance to his supporters. WhenTrump said he could shoot someone,etc, we could hardly imagine that in reality he could be an assessory to the cover up of a murder. But here we are and he will get away with it. We have a genuine crisis on our hands.
4
The deafening din of the echo chamber is overwhelming, the spin starts, the apologists fire up their editorial pen, reality is given a hazy coat of revisionism. Even if she is at the 'high end' of the spectrum, 1/64th is a sad joke when claiming minority status.
Is this Warren's Dukakis in a tank moment?
"Taking a hard look at 2020", it's unlikely she'll retain her senate seat in MA in a few weeks.
8
@David
Even if she is at the 'high end' of the spectrum, 1/64th is a sad joke when claiming minority status.
___
I cannot agree more. Her attempt to bootstrap a remote to possibly very remote connection to a Native American is embarrassing, and fully justifies Trump's mockery. Pow Wow Chow, indeed.
1
Reminiscent of Adlai Stevevson's hemlock moment denying that he was a wimp. A Sun Times writer agreed, stating that he was really more of a nerd.
3
@34all: Yes, Americans expect presidents to be macho-men Teddy Roosevelt types. Stevenson didn't stand a chance running against a five star general.
Disagree that this is a fiasco for Warren and agree that she should disengage with barn-yard animal trump. No one should prove anything to trump - he's not worthy.
7
Warren showed incredibly bad judgement in ever making a fuss during her career about the fact that some distant ancestor was native American.
She claimed to be native American in her academic positions and non white.
She has managed to offend just about everyone for excellent reasons.
Native Americans are not amused and neither is anyone else.
It is really very difficult to see Warren as an effective President of the USA
with those kinds of values and attitudes.
18
@David
If THIS is how you define an "effective President", you should IMMEDIATELY vote for Warren, just to get Trump out ...
And as you can see here in the comment section, even your idea that she offended "everyone" is totally false ...
She is a joke - whether you call her indian girl or Elizabeth. She is not really a feminist and is simply an extreme liberal of the likes of Bernie Sander. She will only splinter the party further and is unelectable. The Dems need a truly natural moderate progressive with good business acumen and knowledge of conservative values but not right wing fascism.
15
@kdw
False.
She has actually been a Republican before becoming a Democrat, and has always proposed mainstream ideas.
If you think she doesn't, any concrete example?
As to "conservative values": they're gone, as this op-ed once again illustrates. For conservatives today, liars are winners and those who debunk lias "losers". So ESPECIALLY if you care about values today, you should vote for Democrats.
Sorry Ross, but when someone comes at you with an ax, don't pull out your fingernail clippers. This Okie knows how to get "down and dirty" with the best of 'em . . ."
9
Wrong headline. It’s the Trump fiasco. Douthat is a coward.
26
Only a Trump apologist would describe an attempt to prove him wrong as a fiasco. Well, kudos to EW. Better a one-1,000th anything than a 100 percent jerk.
22
@Latif
Well said!
This is what occupies people's time and attention when the earth is facing potential catastrophic climate change and a traitor sits in the oval office?
13
Yes Rick, getting Trump out of office is the most important issue facing us. And Warren's DNA debacle is a setback in that effort. Douthat's point is that Democrats will not beat Trump at his own game, so best not to try.
1
@Tom Establishing facts by means of a scientific test is not in the same country as Trump's game. You are playing Trump's game by falling for his nonsense.
The US votes on the cult of personality not competence when it comes to elections. Name recognition is more important than policy. Sound bites over substance.
The sad thing is the American voters buy it 'hook, line and sink 'em.' The US deserves nothing but one-dimensional characters if it isn't willing to look at the policies and the long term deliverables. But what does one expect from a country that looks at quarterly reports and stock numbers to determine if the country is going in the right direction.
The US is number one in things you don't want to be number one in and not in the top 10 of things that are important. It is a nation that has been either directly or indirectly at war for all but three and a half years of its existence, is currently at war in so many countries that its own citizens don't know nor can find on a map.
At some point, the nation and its voters have to look in the mirror and ask 'Is it me?' and come to terms with the answer that We the People have abdicated our responsibility and our civic duty not to just show up to the ballot box every two or four years, but stay informed and be proactive in our democracy.
10
Trump has only one audience: his fans. He doesn’t care about anyone else (others are not part of his “America” and are lucky if he doesn’t deem them vile enemies of the nation). And his supporters don’t care about anything but celebrating how much their hero is a “winner”. Get it, Ross? He defines “winner” as having his fans say he is. His fans say he is because he tells them he is. It’s a closed circle. Get in the ring with Trump? He’s alone in their and the only ticket-holders are his acolytes. For the rest of us, i.e., the majority of actual American people, there is no real ring, only a little side show by, for, and of the Donald. Outside that ring, he continues to destroy lives, institutions, and America’s reputation in the world. That’s the real “ring”: reality.
7
Democrats running against her are delighted and will use her arguments she's native American against her. She'll never get to debate Trump.
3
The Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma does not agree that the DNA test proves that Elizabeth Warren is a Native American. So according to them, she doesn't trump Trump on this one.
A Native American geneticist explains their reasoning here: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/what-make-elizabeth-wa... (Progressives should want to know what the oppressed themselves think, so please check it out. Or, at least stop saying Warren proved her point.)
Hillary voter, Trump hater me here, but really? So far, you guys seem to have little to no interest in what Native Americans have to say about this issue. Prove me wrong.
9
@John Hamilton
Warren herself has issued a statement that says that ONLY acceptation as citizen of the Cherokee Nation is a valid reason to call yourself Native American, and that of course she does not identify as Native America at all.
So she has proven you wrong.
10
@Ana Luisa
Except she took a position at Harvard University presenting herself as Native American.
This actually makes affirmative action look bad too - when white people take jobs on a fake basis that are supposed to go to minorities. Not cool.
I'm a democrat, btw
I don't want the election of 2020 to be about exchange of personal attacks. The last thing the Democratic Candidate needs is to dwell on rebuffing diatribes from Trump. The Democratic candidate must avoid getting into the gutter with Trump and rise above by concentrating on health care, wages, taxation, global trade, and empowering women.
2
Trump should pay 1/1024th of $1 million to her favorite charity.
6
The game is now on to destroy Elizabeth Warren's persona as a viable presidential candidate. It has been perfected over decades by the dirty tricks and fake news wing of the GOP.
Any Democratic woman candidate that threatens the GOB (good old boys) establishment of presidential candidates will be attacked for anything and everything with hyperbole and viciousness, because the network can't stand the idea of a Democratic woman president.
Hilary is a smart, capable woman. The press is complicit in publicizing the most outrageous attacks and suspicions.
Warren is feisty. I applaud her taking a DNA test and rubbing it in Trump's face. He is a class A bully and a fascist to boot, so expect the punditry to follow the lowbrow trolling.
She is not claiming membership in a tribe. She claimed and proved she has an Indian ancestor. Case closed and shut up.
17
I don't understand why people think this was a self inflicted wound on Warren's part. By having the test done and challenging trump to pay up on his bet she showed once again that Trump can't be trusted to keep his word and is a liar. While many if us may have trouble understanding the perspective of native Americans about her taking the test. Almost everybody understands the character of someone who makes a challenging bet, loses that bet and then says they won't pay up on that bet. If she runs for President and Trump talks about his keeping his promises she can throw this right at him. When he calls her names she can point out that he didn't pay his bet. It's the same as when Obama put out his birth certificate, Trump was left looking stupid and it took the issue off the table and birtherism died that afternoon. When you're faced with a bully you have to punch back or the bully keeps punching. Trump will think twice before he throws out another challenge to Sen. Warren. Democrats have to learn how to fight back at the GOP tribe instead of trying to stay above the fray. Americans understand and respect those who fight back when picked on. We don't respect the kid who lets the bully take their lunch money everyday without trying to fight back.
11
That Douthat, a conservative pundit, decides to spin a clear loss for Trump and the GOP in such a way that we should imagine that it's Warren, who just proved the GOP totally wrong, who "lost", shows how even conservative "intellectuals" have completely lost any sense of moral compass.
How can you possible call someone who is a liar the "winner" of the debate when it is now PROVEN that he lied and lost ... ??
As to what Douthat wants us to believe is "the point" here (not the fact that Warren has just beaten Trump and Scott Brown, but the fact that Harvard, his own alma mater, decided to list her as Native American): for more than a century, conservatives supported the "one-drop-rule", but of course, now that the civil rights movement has defeated them and having non-white ancestry became an asset, in certain places, rather than something that forces you to accept to be treated unfairly, all of a sudden conservatives are faking indignation when a white woman with more than average Native American blood is called a Native American by one of this country's most prestigious universities.
So exactly WHAT is a "fiasco" here?
Douthat doesn't even dare to start to explain his hypothesis.
Conclusion: by 2020 Democrats will have a formidable candidate in Warren, someone who refuses to lie, has invented and then created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, which already shifted millions of dollars from Wall Street to Main Street, until Trump and his GOP destroyed it etc. ...
11
She didn't lose in my book. Took the issue off the table by validating what she had been told when she was young - there is some native american blood in her ancestry. But never mind, because Trump thrives on lying about what he said ($1 million donation if she took the test) and then poking fun and calling names at any women who is taking a piece of his limelight. She is more of a man than he will ever be.
14
Donald Trump probably spent all of 3 seconds coming up with his Pocahantas insult, but the left obligingly formed a circular firing squad and took care of the rest. Is Trump a genius, or are his opponents just so much stupider? 2020 is going to be cake walk for him.
5
A stupid stunt.
We should be focused on winning the midterms.
Why did Warren think it was important to release this right now and suck up so much air?
Warren is self-involved and eager to make this a personal dirt fight between herself and Donald Trump.
I want a Democratic nominee who's number one focus is restoring dignity and integrity to the country.
This stunt by Warren was hugely lacking in dignity.
And it was bad timing.
52
@fast/furious So to have dignity and integrity you are willing to give up jobs and economic activity? To me dignity is a subjective and irrelevant thing. And integrity is indicated by actually keeping your promises as best you can. Trump does that in spades. Now he does some other things that I don't approve of, but I really don't care about them that much.
1
I think she brought this out to show us once again, as if it were needed, what a complete buffoon President Trump is. If he had any class, he would pay up what he promised and shut up about it.
Sadly, as much as I like Sen. Warren, this is unhelpful for her if she really wants to join the list of wanna be candidates. Just as it would have been a better choice for Hillary Clinton to stay in the Senate, it would be a better choice for Elizabeth Warren to do so. Why? Because it is the place she will do the most good for the country.
Democrats need to think long and hard about who to run in 2020. If Trump does run, which he seems prepared to do, a strong, smart, unable to be ruffled, man from the Midwest would be the most sensible choice. Trump would simply not know how to deal with a sensible, self assured, intelligent Midwesterner who won't buy into his crap and demand sensible answers to our countries needs.
7
A fraction of a percent doesn't make one a minority and is insensitive to those who truly should qualify as that race and have faced challenges because of it.
Ms. Warren should never have allowed herself to be portrayed as a minority. She was wrong and should have apologized instead of doubling down.
She needs to avoid the trap and disengage from this issue.
7
Democrats stop dealing with distractions. Be relentless in repeating the facts of what is really going on. Focus on getting good people (like Elizabeth Warren) elected on November 6.
6
The bigger issue in my view is that, however large the differences, Senator Warren reminds too many people of the other Democratic Senator who recently run for president. Yes, that is wrong, sexist, etc... but that is the reality. Being left of Hillary Clinton may help a bit on the coasts but hurt a lot elsewhere, including with all the people worried about their tax rates. I hope the Democrats find a moderate Biden-like candidate with vision and charisma, sympathy for the working class, solid government credentials, some international experience and suspicion of China and Russia and very few missteps in their closet. The movement to the right and nationalism are happening all over the world, and there is no reason to think that the US will buck the trend.
I believe in implicit bias and support affirmative action for that reason. In fact, bias is pretty explicit these days. As an academic and past administrator who has actually filled out questionnaires for the American Bar Association and other groups listing law faculty by minority/nonminority status, and as a person whose Irish grandmother qualifies her for Irish citizenship should she ever get it together to apply, I feel sympathy for Elizabeth Warren. But I also agree with Mr. Douthat as to how she should have handled it. And I absolutely agree with the Cherokee Nation's position. We have entered an era of government approval of racism, and of government attempts to literally starve, kill, deny medical care to, and rip children away from, the poor and people of color. This is where our focus must be. Sniping over whether a blond, blue eyed, fair skinned person is a Cherokee is a needless distraction.
1
There is no fiasco. it's all right wing spin to divert our attention from Warren skewering Trump and twisting it for good measure. Don't fall into the right wing trap and don't listen to those who say facing off with the bully doesn't work. Everyone around Trump knows he can be brought down with cool hard facts. The DNA test neutralized his belittling nickname. I see in Warren the only Dem willing to stand up and slap the sluggered across the face.
9
@Dan Exactly right. Trump comes out of this as a shameless welsher. She comes out as telling the truth, and proving it to prove Trump a welsher.
Douthat's advice to Democrats should be ignored.
6
No, Frank, she has lost nothing. It is the tribes who are not so proud of her as their sister and descendant. Why not support her dna claim and exhibit some enthusiasm for someone who feels deeply about her own Indian heritage and would be naturally sympathetic to the many issues of poverty, discrimination and neglect that our native Americans suffer. Do they know the difference between friend and foe? Mr. Trump and his environmental spoilers certain don't seem friendly in any way whatsoever.
6
Come on Ross. Since Trump refuses to pay, she - or better her spokesperson - now can call Trump "Welsher" for as many times as it takes. It's a one-word tag that shouldn't go away - and it's consistent with his history of business practice.
Ought to work for her as well as "Lock her up" worked for him. Clinton's problem was that her history sort of (if you don't think hard - and who does in politics) it resonates as true-ish. Similarly for Trump. Welsher is a label that should stick - and stick.
4
"Because the whole issue with Warren’s ancestral claims is that she allowed them to be proclaimed as proof of an elite institution’s diversity, in an environment where that diversity can matter a great deal to one’s career prospects."
Meanwhile, Trump is condoning torture, murder and dismemberment.
Republicans like Douthat can't morally reason their way out of a paper bag.
5
@broxmeyer2
What does Trump have to do with Warren's moral positions? She used race to extinguish herself and provided a cover for her employer, Harvard.
2
I have predominantly-white friends who claim Cherokee ancestry. I've always looked at the blonde hair, blue eyes, and simply shrugged. Ancestry is in an intensely personal issue that needs absolutely no input from me on the matter whatsoever.
Why either Senator Warren or Mr. Trump ever thought that raising this issue to the level of national scrutiny was a good idea is beyond me.
Warren was right to takthe DNA test and publicize the results. One less issue to distract in 2020.
She can now concentrate on the real issues of the Country.
5
I have seen the video of trump mocking Ms. Warren. He challenged her to take a DNA test, with the condition that if it revealed "one drop" of Native American blood, he would personally donate $1,000,000 to the charity of her choice.
While it is true that trump seems immune to consequences when a bluff (or lie) of his is called, I'm glad she made the effort. I hope she makes a public statement on where she wants him to send the money.
How can Douthat leave this element out of his story? Maybe a million dollars is inconsequential to the Right, but to those who don't regularly drink to Konservative Kool-Aid, it is a lot of money that would make a big difference to some of the causes that have been kneecapped by the current regime.
8
@Oliver
How can you leave out that it was a hypothetical donation if he debated her for the presidency in 2020? I guess "inconsequential" only applies one way...
1
I'm not really seeing how Warren has lost. Trump is the one who looks like a lying, stingy Mr. Scrooge. Neither Warren or anyone with any sense believes that a DNA test showing a small amount of ancestry of a minority group should entitle a person to be classified as a minority. However, as a White American whose DNA test confirms African, Native American, and various other ethnicities in my background, what gives anyone the right to deny me claiming my African or Native American ancestors? I'm proud to have come from everywhere. It's the American story.
6
This article is unnecessary piling-on. I think (almost) everyone sees how Warren committed cultural identity theft and doubled-down on it. Theft that would never be tolerated by the left if a right-wing man attempted it. It's true that it took a few days for many in the media to realize what their reaction should have been all along. That's because they were dazzled by watching Warren not to back down to Trump and try to win at his game. It took a while after the "In Your Face, Trump" moment passed for them to realize what Warren was doing, in terms of cultural identity.
3
"No good reasons" is an understatement, Mr. Douthat. As far as genetics is concerned, there is no such thing as race. So using it to prove racial status or heritage sort of defeats the purpose of advocating for either.
I object to the whole story about Patricia Warren and her genetic test results for reasons that our ancestry is much more than our genetics, and that both genetics and ancestry are personal matters, to be shared as one chooses and not used as political fodder.
As many others have remarked, I am more black than she is Native American, but I'm also about 72 times more Native American than she. That alone doesn't make me Native American. Takes a lot more than genes.
Sen. Warren did herself and indigenous people no favors by answers to her accuser. Generally that's a fool's strategy, and I would like to think she is no fool.
1
So how does any woman bullied by Trump prevail? Douthat says to "ignore him and talk about the many issues where he’s on the wrong side of public opinion" and don't get in the mud of his freak show. I don't think that's enough.
While Trump demeans everyone, he attacks women for looks (it's hard for flat-chested women to be a 10), likens us to animals (horseface, face of a dog, pig) and mocks our bodily functions (bleeding from her wherever). No insult is too cruel or too low,
He pushes it all away as locker room talk.
Can Douthat describe a situation where a targeted woman has refused to join Trump in his pit and emerged a winner?
5
@CinnamonGirl
Republican men during the nominations didn't fare very well either. "Low energy Bush" "Little Marco". It's not a sexist thing.
1
Seems to me that Douthat has swallowed Trumpism hook, line and sinker. The whole thing.
Yes, Warren might have made a strategic mistake. If you look at what bringing this Pocahantas nonsense out in the open the way she did cost her: she opened herself to criticism, and so she lost. But that's Chump-Trump's way of seeing things. The important thing--the only thing--within this value system is who wins and who loses. That's about all you need to know about Trump's value system--and apparently Douthat as well.
But I think that Warren was operating in a different mind set and within a very different value system in this Pocahantas story. This one is based on truth and on maintaining a neutral public space for passionate, but un-venomed, conversation about important public matters. Seems to me that what she provided was the truth and that she did so in a serious, even tempered way inn the public forum. Seems to me that such a value system trump's whatever value system is to be found in POTUS.
7
I had a moment of excitement when I heard what she did, followed by a sinking feeling she fell into DTs trap. Why would she expect facts to be relevant to a president who ignores facts. It gives him more press coverage, not less. Many of us cringe when we hear him discount his comments in an obvious racist way, but we aren't his target audience.
3
So checkmate, Drumpf, right? Well, yes, yes indeed.
"Because the whole issue with Warren’s 'ancestral claims,'" as you say, is that President Trump promised that if she took a DNA test that showed she had Native American ancestry, he would donate $1 million to the charity of her choice, which she did.
Then, he went back on his promise and lied about it besides. Who is the "loser" here? I think it is the liar. Warren never lied.
6
@Acarson Absolutely. Trump comes out as a welsher. Don't let's forget it. Let's not fail to remind everybody.
6
@Acarson: I agee. Trump reneging on his pledge is another example of him being a loser. But then again, I live in MA and plan to vote for Warren next month. I think she has been a good Senator for the state and the country. Douthat conveniently ignored Trump's promise to make the donation, and Trump won't do it, but none of this will matter to Trump, Douthat, Trumpettes, or the Republican Party. The rules don't apply to them, and they can change whenever, wherever, however they want. The base will support him. The DNA test proves to anyone who does care about facts that she didn't lie about her heritage, because remember, only Trump and his party can lie and get away with it. Warren and other Democrats are held to a much higher standard. So she put Trump's claims that she lied about her heritage to rest. Now she should focus on the issues and on being the best Senator she can.
1
I watched the video of Trump's rally in Montana, and I am aghast, appalled, and ashamed that he is the President of the United States. What have we become? Throngs of people, including young children, cheering him on! Incredible. I have said before, and I will say again, I truly feel that I don't fit in.
6
I agree with Warren's move. It's 2 yrs to the election: I doubt she'll ever mention this test again. But here is what it does: prior to the test, every time Trump called her 'Pocahontas', it was about her being a fake. Post-test, every time he calls her 'Pocahontas', it's about him being a racist. She literally never has to refer to her heritage again. But he has to: because having called her 'Pocahontas' before, he can hardly back down now. And every time he does, it'll say something about him, rather than her. I expect she will never refer to this test, or her heritage, again. Which is why it had to be done now, so long before the actual election.
7
@Phil and everybody should remember his bet and that he has welshed on it.
5
So, Ms.Warren made a little tactical error. Big deal! I'd vote for her in a heartbeat when her time comes.
9
What Elizabeth Warren should have done was say to Trump "I will reveal the results of my DNA test when you reveal what you found about President Obama's birth certificate."
@susan how about, when he reveals his tax returns
5
@susan
So, why didn't she? Did this reputedly brilliant woman shoot herself in the foot?
Of course, Trump would still have gone after her. He doesn't easily bend to critics. That's part of his enormous appeal.
I heartily disagree. The DNA test validated her family lore and justified her beliefs.
Why is truth not a good thing? This in no way justifies his racist taunts.
Bullies must be confronted with facts. This is exactly what she did.
Most voters respect people who tell the truth, which she has always done. I believe the gangs who follow Trump will get their due eventually. Warren has not said she is running for President. But I agree she needs a joke about Trump, like Texas Governor Ann Richard's had about George Bush. "Poor George, He can't help it. He was born with a silver foot in his mouth". Cute and effective.
6
I'm waiting for Warren to claim that Trump used his rich, east coast elite heritage to inherit millions of dollars, attend fancy private schools, avoid paying his fair share of taxes, and embark on a decades long lie convincing people he is a self made man, while repeatedly filing bankruptcy and licensing his name out to anyone with a roll of gold lame fabric and a connection to foreign dictator.
She doesn't need him to release a DNA test for us to know that, though.
4
@Eguy
Warren can't attack Trump for being wealthy since she is a multi-millionaire herself. It would only expose her as an even bigger hypocrite.
To Warren, and Trump, self-made also means self-deluded. They pay to live in a bubble.
3
@Russian Bot, except she grew up the poor daughter of a montgomery ward salesman and wrote her own ticket. She is actually the rags to riches person that Trump represents to many people.
After her father died when she was 12, their car was repossessed because her mom couldn't make the payments. She began waiting tables at 13, and her mom worked at the Sears catalog department.
She wrote my law school textbook, among many other books. She may be a millionaire, but it isn't because of her heritage. Warren is the bootstrapping american Trump masquerades as.
She’s out. Not a chance. Next?
2
@Neil This shows the extended consideration appropriate for deciding whom to support for the most important job in the free world.
3
I have to, on this rare occasion, agree with Douthat. This was a big, huge mistake from Warren that drew my attention to troubling details that I did not know about her before (which I assume is the case for many others too). I detest Trump and hate the racist Pocahontas jibe. At the same time, I no longer think that Warren has what it takes to be president and in any case she would be battered in any debates by Trump.
Ok, so the next thing I'm about to write is going to sound controversial. To make this clear, I mean it as a criticism of the system. So here goes: the Democrats should consider running 2020 with a man. The election should not be seen as an opportunity to break any ceilings. It will be a nasty bar fight and there are way too many sexists in this country for it to end well for a woman.
2
She is not tough enough to take on the republicans. You need an Avenatti--legal knowledge and focused on hitting back. Warren gets distracted.
1
Don't care about any of this trivia. I would vote for President Warren in a heartbeat.
11
Elizabeth Warren started an argument with a dishonest person. Trump uses her claim of Native ancestry as a racial wedge. She tried to address the issue, and Trump, with the help of his racist posse, dismissed her. He did that because he doesn't have a actual rebuttal, based in fact. That is how incompetent bullies act.
I think you should write a column that addresses the racist nature of the name calling, war whoops, and divisive rhetoric. It disgusts me, and has no place in America. The fact that there are millions of Americans who can't see through Trump's transparent façade of branding, (while having no argument,) is disheartening.
7
Mr. Douthat makes a mountain out of a molehill, again.
5
Any Democrat that listens to Republican political advice better watch out for when they suggest that you should slit your own wrists.
Douthat says that the current climate requires a deftness with scandal. Meanwhile Trump creates scandal after scandal and just ignores their wakes.
When John Kerry was being swiftboated, he remained above the fray, and lost the election.
Trump promised to donate a million dollars off Warren took a DNA test that showed naive ancestry. She did and he welched on the bet. The media should be demanding he pony up, but instead they are going after Warren. Don't fall for it.
While a spineless centrist like Chuck Schumer hides in his office fasttracking Trump's judicial nominees, Warren is one of the few Democrats that regularly, loudly, and clearly explains how we got into this mess and how to get out of it.
This was a smart move, since every time she is attacked for claiming she had naive ancestry, Democrats can say yes, and it is mathematical certain that it is true. If you can convict a murderer on DNA evidence then you can counter Republican propaganda with it.
You Democrats that are always looking to attack your own, instead of the Party of Trump are not reasonable and strategic. You are suckers doing the work of Republicans.
Warren its one of the few Democrats that can beat Trump. This is a victory not a loss.
Get real.
4
What is wrong with you democrats?! Why are you defensive? Why defend the claim that you have native American ancestry. It is a fact. Even if it is a trillionth of native blood. But why do you feel the need to explain yourselves, to prove yourselves. The sane don't care whether you are white or native. The others don't care about your proof.
Why did Obama have to put out his birth certificate? He was already the president! It is a fact that he is born in the US. The sane know this. The others will not believe it no matter what you put out. So why defend? Why why why?
Do people with native American blood mention it in applications and such so as to benefit from it. Absolutely. Many do. Elizabeth Warren did just that. Nothing wrong with it. Do children get money and handouts from parents to get started in business and to get a leg up? Do parents sometimes bail their kids out with an infusion of money. Absolutely. Donald Trump did just that.
So stop defending yourselves. Go on the attack!
2
Good riddance, Warren is (and never was) fit to lead. Now, please, can someone persuade Bernie Sanders to take a DNA test ?
The real story has nothing to do with DNA.
What's relevant is that Warren got played by Trump and it took no effort at all on his part.
2
I am a lifelong Democrat, accustomed to holding my nose and voting the straight party line. I won’ t vote for Warren in a primary.
5
Excellent perspective, Mr. Douthat. My first reaction to the whole thing was, "why did she do this?" and "why did she do this six weeks before the midterms?" This is an epic misjudgment on her part.
2
"I am not a Democratic insider or a campaign professional, so for all I know Warren may indeed be impressing her intended audience."
It's interesting to note that when a pundit issues a disclaimer like the one above, you can be sure he is going to do exactly what he just implied he shouldn't do.
I don't believe Ross Douthat has the expertise to know how this 15 secs of a 2-year presidential campaign will impact the results. It may be that Warren has released these test results early precisely so she can say, "I've addressed that," whenever Trump does his thing. To put her in the same category as Stormy Daniels is patently ridiculous, and condescending in the extreme.
5
I thought she claimed Indian ancestry on her job application forms. If so, it must have been for the expected advantage of doing so.
Trump's only relevance is that he questioned that ancestry. The DNA test proved him correct.
The issue is the "LIE" on her job applications, not Trump.
1
@Tony: No, she didn't lie on her job application form. She had already been hired by and was working at Harvard when she changed the box(es) she checked on the form. Many people in this country have mixed ancestry--people who have mixed ancestry should be able to check more than one box, if they wish. She didn't lie about her ancestry, and she didn't lie on her job application.
Elizabeth Warren said she had Native American ancestry and she proved it.She never claimed to be a Native American or claim Cherokee citizenship.
As to enter into an argument with Trump she has weapons that he does not comprehend like reason, respect and interest in truth.
To argue with Trump she is not qualified, but others are, i.e. Stormy Daniels. What she says he does understand.
6
Ross Douthat, as usual, provides a well-balanced assessment of Elizabeth Warren's situation. While I support Warren's candidacy, I agree with Douthat's position.
Warren's case is somewhat reminiscent of a more egregious 2007 case involving a provocative, left-leaning University of Colorado professor of ethnic studies, Ward Churchill, who, in the process of advancing his academic career, claimed partial Native American ancestry and was cited for research misconduct involving alleged falsification of history and plagiarism of another author's work in one of his own publications. The United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians publicly disavowed his blood ancestry and stated that he had been made an honorary member of the tribe due to his assistance to them with various tribal issues. Courts upheld the university's decision, after a faculty committee investigation, to terminate Churchill's tenure and dismiss him.
In comparison, Warren's offense is, as Douthat notes, inconsequential and relatively insignificant. He correctly points out that her better course of action would have been simply to acknowledge its inappropriateness, apologize to all Native Americans for what in effect was a minor offense, and let it go at that. Biting into our Serpent-in-Chief's poisonous apple was a major misstep, but I disagree that it is so great as to disqualify an otherwise eminently qualified candidate to become our first real President since Barack Obama.
3
President Trump played Sen. Warren like a fiddle.
Add Sen. Warren to the list of politicians who have fallen into his trap.
Her chances of nomination and winning the Presidency are slim and none, and I think slim is catching the next train out of town.
2
I have been following Elizabeth Warren since she was on PBS talk shows, explaining economics in an accessible way to all and sundry. I read her first memoir and found it compelling. I supported her first run for the Senate with a small donation and have been on her email list ever since. She sends informative messages with occasional requests for donations--usually to other candidates. Like many Americans, she took a DNA test and found she has some Native American ancestry--and told Trump to pony up. She is no Avenatti. She is an accomplished and principled woman, who strikes me as a good deal smarter than most presidential hopefuls, male or female. Personally, I am getting tired of the identity politics folks whose concerns about cultural misappropriation strike me as off the mark. I appreciate the creativity that results when different cultures interact--whether it's the influence of John Ford on Akira Kurosawa or the influence of Matisse on TC Cannon (Kiowa). Senator Warren is not asking to join the Cherokee Nation. She telling Trump to honor his word.
12
This is one of the most idiotic things I have seen a major Democratic politician do in the Trump era. How delusional is this woman? Not only has she now stooped to his level, but she has actually proven his point and brought much attention to what is otherwise a silly distraction and pointless story. She thought she might have a distant relative who was a Cherokee so she claimed to be a freaking diversity hire? Now I actually know the story and it IS deserving of ridicule! In the best case her mom's mom's mom's mom's mom's mom MAY have been a Cherokee! WOW! Way to go Harvard - way to stick it to the white man/woman.
Anybody defending her actions should really think about what they are saying. This is just absolutely pathetic and the story is spot on.
8
@Ken Parcell
The man-`splainin' in these comments is rampant. Lots of commands about what a smart woman "should" do if only she had the good, common sense to conduct her life and political goals like a man.
The woman-hatred evidenced in many of these opinions is appalling. Warren never used her drop of Cherokee blood to get into Harvard. Harvard never granted her any affirmative action funds. She confronted Trump with DNA proof to put his betting money where his bully-boy mouth is and give the million bucks he promised to the charity of her choice. No one is holding their breath on that score. The ball's in his court. I hope Warren runs him right out of town in 20/20. Certainly, she can't do any worse than the destructive clowns they have in the White House right now.
Ross Douthat and Bret Stephens use their precious commentary space in the New York Times to fiddle while the Constitution is burning and democracy is dying. Very sad indeed.
18
As much as 1/32 bit more likely 1/64. The 1/1024 Republicans like to mention is an extreme outlier number. If she is 1/32 he mothers 1/16 is not trivial. that is her mothers a great great grandparent. In the old slavery days you had to be 1/16 or less black to be considered white.
Warren does for affirmative action what HRC does for the #metoo movement.
7
Actually, I find the Cherokees anger very interesting. Warren was repeating a family story and many of us have similar stories.
But for them to attack an intelligent, caring democrat who I am sure has always voted to empower American Indians makes no sense. Well, if a republican is elected in 2020, they can expect more gas lines and drilling near their land.
7
@Marti Detweiler
I take it since you are from back East that you are unaware of the fact that there are many reservations that already take advantage of their oil and gas-rich land by allowing drilling.
Or do you think we all live in teepees and hunt buffalo?
4
A continued lame attempt to normalize trump's fascism and racism. This blaming the victim nonsense is old, stupid and useless.
6
Being 63/64th non native American is like paying 9/10ths on a gallon of gas. Just fork over the full cent, it's all just a stupid game anyway that nobody's fooled by.
4
Sorry Ross, but to me, far more was lost than Trump's bully temper and/or Warren's Indian heritage humility, and, that to me, is perhaps the most telling of just how deeply dysfunctional and low our American politics has sunk.
No one, not a soul, from either the D's or the R's, the L's, or the I's, for that matter, cared one iota, enough to call both of these supposed 'statesmen' out for their complete lack of regard, reflection, for the dignity, respect of perhaps the most historically maligned sector of Americans, their culture, that there is today, our native Americans.
When and where does the win at all costs end.
We've truly lost our way.
3
This was a foolish thing to do -- the DNA nonsense -- and it shows poor judgment on Warren's part. Her testy anger at Trump does not bode well for her future. She'd best stay where she is in the Senate. I hope some adviser or respected friend can get to her and straighten her out. Trump will make mincemeat our of her very earnestness.
4
Not sure about how Senator Warren handled releasing this study; and not sure how people breakout percentages of ethnicity from such an analysis to be honest (like what gets shown on advertisements for such test). However, she had been accused of fabricating an ancestry - that alone could have been a compelling, motivating factor to undertaken the test (would not be an uncommon reaction by any normal person). And then there were the barely veiled racists taunts/jeering dating back to 2012, with tomahawk chops and references to pocahontas - that too could have been a motivating factor. Not to engage in pop psychology, but taking a test doesn't seem like an unusual response given the context. It is interesting that the opinion columnist seems to steer clear from any reference to racists acts of detractors in general, and seemingly downplays the obnoxious aspects of this affair that present a more simple reason for Senator Warren's actions. (accompanied by some Monday afternoon quarterbacking about "Warren should not have taken the test")
1
Whoever gets the Dem nomination in 2020 must tout visionary ideas for a "more perfect union" that draw their inspiration from true Democratic ideology (think RFK.) The Dem nominee will not have spent vast amounts of their time trash talking the president. They Dem nominee will not be someone who stirred MSNBC-style hysteria about the daunting predicament we find ourselves in, but will communicate a clear set of goals and objectives and undeniable reasons to vote Democratic in 2020.
Elizabeth Warren has just taken herself out of contention for 2020.
4
The only people making a big deal out of this 'loss' are reporters, columnists and other 'opinion-makers' (LOL).
It' no wonder our country is in the state it's in.
7
@dimseng Politics make bedfellow - Trump said the same thing about reporting on him
@dimseng
Not true. I am none of the above, and it appears obvious that if nominated, Warren will make HRC's campaign look masterful.
1
Gee, Ross nothing else more interesting or important to pontificate about?! The Bully-n-Chief challenged Sen. Warren and she won the .....bet! One million dollars no less!
Warren didn’t make her ancestry an issue that was done by Scott Brown, another Republican bully! And if you read the comments the name-calling continues!
Your column points to the small mindedness of conservatives. Instead of speaking about how no one’s heritage should be mocked you pile on with your own criticism!
Deplorable!
1
She would all but guarantee the Dems a loss,in a presidential race. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
4
It is obvious for even a lay person such as myself, that to play Trumps game is to lose, and lose big. What we need are people with a verifiable spine, who know better than give tit for tat. You must present a strong front, and basically ignore him, and his childish rants. Like giving in to a spoiled brat's demands, those demands grow ever more strident, when kowtowed to. Best to put them in a corner and get on with the business of being an adult, and returning our country to one which acts like it's being run by one. I have the highest regard for Warren, and I feel she can move beyond this. I hope she fires the strategist who made the suggestion and get better advisers on board. She's going to need them.
3
You nailed this column on all accounts.
This was a lose lose for Warren, Trump will surely challenge the approx 1/64 figure. As someone who is approx 63/64 white, and who did not associate with actual Native American associations (at the time that she ticked the box), Warren was truly a fake diversity hire. That is the simple point of Trump's criticism - fake diversity. It is great that she has contacts now, but those contacts were made decades after ticking the box, obviously made for damage control.
As for Avenatti, he should quite while he is behind.
The lesson for Warren and Avenatti - you cannot beat Trump at his on game, he invented his game. Try another game or tact.
4
As smart and experienced as Ms Warren is, and I will definitely support if she runs in 2020, she needs to pick her battles more wisely. Tilting at the Trump windmill is a waste of time for her and anyone else. Trump will always have a wise-guy retort that will hit below the belt and stay there.
Ms Warren needs to strike back with a punch that hits him where it hurts and doesn't try to fend off his barbs. Ms Warren needs to lift things from his shabby record of accomplishments, his lies, frauds, bankruptcies, his dealings with shady characters, and not play on his turf but change the playing field when dealing with him. Offense is better than defense when dealing with the fraudster in chief.
4
Exactly. In a world in which the country cannot afford to re-elect the president, Warren has shown herself to be an absolute awful choice for Democratic nominee.
3
Can we please stop calling Warren "the possible Democratic front-runner?" What nonsense! The midterms are 3 weeks away!
6
For the Fox News crowd, Elizabeth Warren will never win.
3
The arguments that Warren is still a strong presidential candidate seem to come down to this:
That scam about Warren being the "first woman of color" on faculty at Penn and Harvard Law: Yes, the majority of Americans, white and minority, might see that sort of posing as deceitful and tacky. But the important thing about that is TRUMP IS BAD.
Those "family recipes" submitted by "Elizabeth Warren, Cherokee" to a Native American cookbook, including some plagiarized from Better Homes & Gardens: Well, yes, that's pretty hilarious, and could supply weeks of material for late-night comedians. But American voters won't notice, because TRUMP IS BAD.
This DNA test that proves she is at least 0.1% descended from Native Americans -- or anyway native South Americans -- like millions of other white people in the United States: Maybe trumpeting that as vindication of her Cherokee heritage wasn't the smartest. Maybe if she was less self-righteous she might have had a clue that this could make her a laughingstock. But American voters won't laugh because TRUMP IS BAD.
To announce this in a lugubrious, teeth-grindlingly earnest 5-minute video that comes across as an SNL parody: That's fine, American voters really love that sort of attitude because TRUMP IS BAD.
Anyway, this is trivial: Warren is 100% right on the issues, because we say so. And everyone knows elections are decided strictly on the issues. ...well actually nobody thinks that but anyway TRUMP IS BAD.
Biden, anyone?
4
The only fiasco in this country right now is Donald Trump and the entire Republican Party and the cowering, genuflecting media sycophants like Ross who don't have the guts to call them out straight up, but rather tut-tut those who don't conform to their massive fascist dysfunction.
4
I've been saying for 3 years that DJT needs to be treated like the petulant, spoiled brat that he is - ignore him. If we'd all ignored him from the beginning he wouldn't be defiling our White House.
1
Trump said that he would give one million to charity if she had any Indian blood in her. That's why she went for the DNA test. As usual, Trump reneged.
62
@Sharon Brody: You're so right. Trump definitely owes "Pocahontas" $1 million. Multiplied by 1/1,024. Which equals $976. Let's make a big stink until Trump puts his money where his big mouth is.
1
@Sharon Brody I feel bad for quibbling here since I don't really want to say Trump is right, but he did say he'd pay if she took the test and the test showed she's an "Indian", not that there's good evidence that sometime in the 19th century she may have had an Indian ancestor. I would say most people if asked would say that the test did not show she's in fact an Indian. Many white people have trace amounts of African American, Indian, etc. in their genes. I do. My pale Nordic friend, to his surprise has more African DNA than Warren has Indian DNA. I don't think that in a million years anyone would say his DNA test showed that he's an "African".
5
@Sharon Brody
Uh, "Indian"?
Actually, the issue was whether she had Native American "ancestry", and arguing that 1/64 (best case scenario) to 1/1024 (worst case) constitutes "ancestry" reinforces Trump's larger point that her claim was ludicrous and self-aggrandizing.
1
It resurfaces at every turn: divide and conquer. The powers that be laugh all the way to the bank. Still, let us hope that what Warren hopes for, succeeds.
1
I cannot disagree with Ross Douthat here more. This is the empirical, unvarnished truth. Whether or not it is politically saavy, Elizabeth Warren has shown that she is not afraid to show the public the truth no matter how intensely private the subject matter. Contrast this with the President and his ilk. Where are those tax returns Mr. President?
11
I am curious why Warren even went through the exercise of trying to demonstrate that she didn't get ahead through affirmative action at Harvard Law School. I assume she's OK with affirmative action and with people being promoted who wouldn't otherwise be without affirmative action in the name of promoting diversity, addressing past wrongs, etc. She also seems to believe that having some small portion of DNA that suggests she may have had an Indian ancestor in the 19th century means she's an Indian since she asked Trump to make good on his bet, which was for her to take a DNA test AND show she's "an Indian". I'm confused why she didn't just say it was fine for me to self-identify as an Indian given family lore and it was fine if Harvard appointed me in part because I'm an Indian in the name of diversity and because that's affirmative action and I'm OK with it.
I assume she's in fact not going down that route because many people on the far right and far left, and in between, would view such a position as completely inane, and it would seem to have the practical effect of defeating affirmative action: Most white people would be able to claim minority status if we set the bar at 1/64th, which is to say there would be no more minority status.
4
I think Senator Warren should embrace the Pocahontas name. She could tell everyone she is proud to have some small bit of Native American genes, and roll with it! Ex. “This Pocahontas is coming for your job, Orange one!”
3
This is the first article where I paid much attention to 'Times Pick', but early on, the designations seemed slanted toward Ross Douthat's political position. There was clearly no neutrality. The 'Times Pick' choices in this comment thread seemed consistently to reveal a political preference not commonly expressed by the NYTimes. Is there a new panel of judges?
3
Warren played into Trump's hands by answering his charge.
She needs to keep her focus where Trump doesn't want it, upon his own shady business dealings, documented lies, emolument violations (Russian and Saudi Arabian).
Warren has plenty to talk about by focusing on all Trump's embarrassments. He will one-note the Pocahontas thing, while you quote his "greatest hits" of how he's lied to the American public.
But Warren has GOT to try to ignore the impulse to defend herself, despite the itch to clear the record and re-establish her own bonafides.
Focus on Trump. Everytime he focuses on you, "whaddabout" it right back to HIM. There's always a worse "whaddabout" in his direction. He's just trying to push the focus off of him when his lies and misdeeds deserve to be in constant spotlight.
3
Clearly, The Great E. Warren affair is the most pressing problem in America today. Bigger than the Lincoln Bedroom, Travelgate and the murder of Vince Foster. Ross zoomed right in on this one. The man has his finger on the pulse of the nation.
4
Hey Ross, the real news is that your president, the Republican president is a liar, a fraud, and a danger to the nation. You might want to write about that, or maybe how your "church" is nothing but fraud, lies, and a criminal enterprise that protects sexual predators. But no, it's gonna be about Elizabeth Warren? Really?
9
@Rover: So right, Rover. The NYT should stop picking on "Pocahontas".
I have to disagree with Ross Douthat and most of the commenters. This DNA test allows Warren to say, "He can call me Pocahontas all he wants but I really do have a Native American ancestor. He really didn't have the bone spurs that got him out of Vietnam or the 10 billion dollars that got him his celebrity and ultimately the presidency. This is just one more instance where Donald Trump says what he wants you to believe regardless of the truth, trying to continue to lie his way through."
7
An elderly, millionaire, former republican, with dyed blonde hair, wearing a blue pants suit... Where have I seen that before...
https://emcphd.wordpress.com
4
Why is the fact that both Fred and Donald Trump claimed to be of Swedish rather than German ancestry when they deemed the latter to be bad for business not an issue?
3
GOOD!! For this to have happened now, that is. The Dems have already had the experience of running the one person Trump could beat, in 2016. If they do it again in 2020, doesn't that make them crazy be definition?
2
Sadly, Sen. Warren "lost" the minute she claimed Native American heritage anywhere other than in a "tell us about yourself" factoid box.
It won't matter if Sen. Warren is actually 1/1024 Native American, as even the most nuanced voter will question claiming a protected background when one is practically non-existent.
3
I dread the idea of EW being the next Democratic Presidential candidate.
I view EW as being a good Senator but, just like Teddy Kennedy, she is simply not Presidential material.
The point is not how much. The point is pride. Pride in being even a tiny bit teensy weensy bit native American. Donald has one thing to be proud about, his ability to bully women and to demean anybody who stands up to him.
3
Finally, someone writes the obvious, even if a fashion that dismisses the significance of Warren's actions. It's clear that she told both Penn and Harvard that she was of Native American ancestry in order to be considered for affirmative action-based preference, no matter whether she actually received any preference. Since she has no meaningful connection to Native American culture or it's deprivations, doing so was unethical and richly hypocritical because she so enthusiastically supports ethnicity and gender based affirmative action.
That said, having made this mistake shouldn't, by itself, disqualify her from being a Senator or seeking still higher office. In my book, she must, however, admit that she was inappropriately seeking to benefit as a minority and express regret. Then, it's fine because we all do stupid things we regret of relatively minor magnitude. That she has repeatedly lied by denying telling Penn and Harvard that she was on Native ancestry and that she denies having hoped to benefit from affirmative action from such disclosure is disqualifying for both offices. I know everyone will write how much worse is Trump. Two wrongs ...
3
@terrance savitsky
It's too late. If she says that now, it will come off as being just too slick. She shot herself in the foot.
Once you start reading an involved defense, an explanation of how she did exactly the right thing and here's why, points a, b, c, etc in rebuttal to naysayers, you know she's LOST, big time. Trump's tweets need no back up explanation. She needs to stay in Senate. And please, no Cory Booker either!
Let's get someone who can play their own game to fight Trump, not try to outTrump him, and is non drama but an authentic, bright, strong, politically savvy progressive.
5
What Warren should've said about the issue: "Trump's suspicion is, in fact, correct. I am Pocahontas. The Disney movie he watched and thought was a biopic about my young adulthood is almost exactly how it went down. I can paint with all the colors of the wind. He figured me out. I am expecting Trump to issue any day now a gold coin with my face on it because our country did the same for Sacajawea and he thinks we were BFFs. He's wrong about that. We didn't know each other. But he thinks so."
1
Funny how only Democrats make mistakes. "Access Hollywood," the Kahn family, attacks on John McCain's valor, multiple bankruptcies, Stormy Daniels, birtherism, (I could go on like this all day; so could you), and not a scratch. The same people pointing fingers and laughing about Elizabeth Warren dismiss any criticism of their own embarrassment of a leader.
6
"Fiasco" is right. Warren's attempt to play up her supposed Native American or "minority" heritage has always been a stretch, and this just proves it. Now she looks even more foolish than she already did, and she'll never get away from this self-inflicted absurdity. If this is the best candidate the Democrats can find to take on Trump, we're in big trouble.
5
What is amazing is how quickly the opinion makers and the power brokers once again turn against a strong women standing up to a white man.
6
Ross obviously excuses Trump's behavior because it is barely mentioned. If Warren's treatment of this business is "sordid," what does Douthat call Trump's disgusting crude behavior? Crickets is his order of the day. So sad.
4
For perhaps the first time, I agree almost whole-heartedly with Douthat. But I find it more than ironic that even NPR is pillorying Warren for her symbolic peccadillo a mere week or so after the newly Republican Supreme Court refused to block Republican North Dakota from taking away Native American voting rights. That is the real scandal here.
2
I'm benignly disposed toward Warren, but I do hope for a candidate with wider appeal and no baggage. That said, I think she erred in identifying with a specific tribe or group, and probably should have presented the result as less than she might have hoped but sufficient to confirm the sincerity of both the family story and her past mentions.
Then she should have asked for Trump's Swedish ancestry (just kidding). And his class rank (not kidding).
1
Where you stand determines where you sit on the news about Senator Warren's DNA test. If you're anti-democrat and anti-woman to start with then of course Ross sees Warren's DNA test as a loser. He's wrong. Again.
Warren won this round. Her DNA test called out of Trump who has been proven, yet again, for the massive liar that he is. What is it now, about 4000 proven lies, and counting. Lying all day about everything.
Warren needs to return fire and put the onus on Trump to show his taxes -- or resign for being the fraud that he is.
6
@Sad former GOP fan: Actually, the DNA test actually proved that "Pocahontas" is a Native American poser and affirmative action fraudster who now goes to ridiculous lengths to try to defend her 1/1024 indian "heritage", while in the process revealing that she probably displaced real minorities from jobs at prestigious institutions and making a mockery of affirmative action. All that, all at once. A total disaster for her and the failed democratic party.
2
What nonsense! Who cares about such things. Why the Times pays Dothan for this makes me wonder about its editorial judgement.
7
It's damned if you do, damned if you don't with Donald. Aren't you attacking the wrong person, Ross? I know, the stupid Dems can never get it right.
2
There is having certain genetic ancestry, which is pure science, and there is being an Indian or a member of an Indian tribe, which is determined by legal and social criteria beyond Warren’s control or ability to prove scientifically. I would have said she could have released the DNA test as proof of her ancestry and corroboration of her family lore. At the same time I would have made it crystal clear that I made no claim to being a Cherokee, a member of any tribe, or even an Indian. And I would have paid special deference to the exclusive right of indigenous people to determine such matters. However, the challenge that Trump made, although based on attacks on her ancestry claims, was carefully limited to the word “Indian.” And to think that he didn’t do that deliberately is to underestimate the cleverness of this stain on humanity. So she should not have tried to call him out on the $1 million challenge. Moreover, whether intended or not, in allowing herself to be characterized in terms beyond what a DNA test or her credentials could substantiate, she let the game get away from her. This was a sure loser and she should have known it.
Also, as a former fan of Michael Avenatti who might have had the political skills to deal with Trump in the way that Douthat correctly says are necessary, I would have to say he has also screwed the pooch.
I do not care for Mr. Douthat, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. And he is right on both scores.
4
May I suggest you tell your "President" to pay up and then shut up? Thanks!
5
"But running for president in the age of Donald Trump requires, above all, an ability to handle what John Heileman and Mark Halperin once called “the freak show” (back when it was considerably less freaky). It requires a deftness dealing with scandals and gaffes and accidental blunders, an ability to know when you have a wrestling move that justifies getting down in the mud and when you’re better off sitting on a top rail and acting superior to the pigs."
You are soooo right!
That's why i am supporting Avenatti/Daniels in 2020.
Let's see how the psycho liar narcissist stands up to the barrage of data supported insults from Mike and Stormy.
They have proven theycan hurl compound complex blows way beyond what one note trump can execute.
Including but not limited to Stormy making "Mushroom Penis Man" and "Limp Dick" the trump equivalent of "Horse Face"
I can see crowd of tens of thousands chanting "Show us your Mushroom!"
"Mushroom Head" will be afraid to leave the house!
Vulgarity works! -Trump proved that!
ps - for those who didn't read her book -Sormy described his penis as having "an enormous mushroom like head"
1
Lots and lots of "damned if you do, damned if you don't" in Trump world. But I wish she had refrained from playing his game.
2
So Elizabeth Warren brought out her long form DNA test to put an end to any birtherism crap that Donald and Melania could diss and blather about. And of course Donald made it a mountain. "Who cares"?
EW tried to end a trivial subject to get down to real issues. Donald turned it into tabloid headlines with himself as the narrative hero again. The media follows Trump into the depths of absurdity by continuing this story. Please stop.
4
And you can tell that Ross Douthat just delights in any little embarassment to a Democrat. Talk about a nothingburger.
4
Alll well & good, Ross, because you do make careful distinctions & effective points.
Except for overlooking the other half of Trump's challenge in which the Liar-in-Chief promised a money gift to her named charity. It's a promise he has no intention of keeping, as if his devoted but unthinking followers gave a damn. Also, Warren has take the occasion to remind us that Trump has never yet revealed his income tax returns, no doubt because of what he has to hide. Seriously broken promise, Donald.
And Ross, cover both sides of the matter, pertinent though your one-sided coverage is, here.
3
Yup, as expected from a Conservative commentator, backed up by all his blog fans. But hey, when a white claims to be 100% white, none of the same folks would EVER doubt him, now would they? Especially in Texas and parts of the VERY Republican/Conservative/Evangelical Southwest, for example. Yet you would be hard pressed to find a PURE white man there because all the land was originally Mexican. Most of the Deep South was originally French and Spanish after takeover of the Native Americans. So, getting into a pissing match about ancestry on the part of Trumpf or any other white Republican/Conservative/Evangelical may not be such a good, winning strategy. Pointing this out, however, may be very good for Ms. Warren.
4
You can't have it both ways, Ross Douthat. You can't, on the one hand, advise Democrats to come down from their Ivory Tower, mix it up with the hoi polloi, take the perceptions of the common folk seriously. And then, second, to gibe at them when they do and suggest that they have "blown it" -- played the game of the street fighter, only to be shown up.
She did something which was necessary, perhaps. Now she's solid. Enough said.
8
I am truly puzzled how such a smart person could have gotten bogged down in such a trivial matter. I'm a Republican who admires a lot about Senator Warren and thought she might have been a viable Presidential candidate, but I'm not so sure. In substance, she had a good point: Family lore had it that her parents had to elope because one of them was thought to have "Indian blood". And she never used her presumed Indian heritage for practical advantage. Yet she publicized the trivial extent of her genealogy without providing context, playing into Trump's hands.
2
@Donald Champagne Donald challenged her to prove it, with a bet of one million dollars. The Bully owes her $$$$!
3
I side with the numerous readers who do not feel this diminished her at all. The video was also very compelling. Our family is one where most of us (adopted and married into) have had DNA tests done and not one of us have any trace of Native American. You would think by some comments made in other forums that "everyone" does. Which is certainly not the case. When my granddaughters results came back a few weeks ago I was touched that 23 and Me stated that she carried part of my Genetic Legacy. That is what Senator Warren has shown in reference to her family. I do feel that the timing was compeletly off. This wasn't time sensitive and having it surface this close to the MidTerms is only a distraction. Even if the Cherokee nation had accepted her with open arms this was bad timing. I hope she continues to be an outspoken critic of this administration.
4
"Because the whole issue with Warren’s ancestral claims is that she allowed them to be proclaimed as proof of an elite institution’s diversity, in an environment where that diversity can matter a great deal to one’s career prospects (even if, on the evidence, it didn’t matter much to Warren’s)."
Wrong.
Warren called Trump's bluff and her pair of deuces beat his nothing hand.
9
I personally can't stand it when someone claims minority status -- Chinese, Filipino, German heritage becomes Hispanic?? -- and they are NOT in fact a minority.
Her DNA test was not in fact a trump card. Very very sad.
Losing credibility is a terrible thing... when one bases one's identity on being credible.
"The Elizabeth Warren Fiasco"? A better title would be "America Jumps the Shark". How appropriate for a country that elected the star of a reality show for president. I blame Trump, Scott Brown and all the other trolls that made Warren's genealogy an issue in the first place. It's a silly distraction from the real issues (which Warren has been a champion of).
Oh yeah, and Trump should stop using the family crest he appropriated (stole).
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40097665
I propose we design a new family crest for the Trumps, one more fitting for a man of Trump's character.
7
I can't believe how much Senator Warren is being criticized for defending herself with the truth and how said defense is being used as evidence that she isn't presidential material. What a sick, immature country . I would say it deserves to fail but for the harm that would do to billions of innocents around the world.
11
Without getting into Trump's nastiness and arguments over ethnic definitions: I was involved in affirmative action as an executive in a large multinational during the time that Warren listed herself as a Native American. In spite of Harvard's denials, I am confident that Warren's status as a "two-fer" ( a crude phrase, never written) was considered in hiring and in subsequent efforts to retain her. As a highly qualified female who had listed herself as a minority, she was an important statistic when Harvard (as a government contractor, as was my employer) reported affirmative action results. Her excuse when pressed, that she wanted to honor her elderly relatives, is less likely than that she wanted to improve her employment prospects. She apparently decided not to say that. Perhaps she could have put this behind her had she admitted it as an early career mistake and expressed regret.
I like a lot about Warren and her ideas about where the country should go, and how to get it there. But this DNA fiasco shows terrible judgement on her part. You can't beat a demagogue and bully by accepting their rules, and anyone with aspirations to the Presidency ought to know that. Who was she trying to convince anyway? People who cared what Trump said about her ancestry challenges were not going to vote for her anyway, and if this was done to try to upstage the clown - well that's just dumb.
28
@Steve Donald mocked and challenged her. He bet a million dollars! Why is Warren being mocked for proving that she has some Native American blood?! Donald is the bully.
4
@Steve
She was trying to convince the sucker centrist Democrats who take everything the lying Party of Trump tells them at face value while they attack their own base.
I'm 2.4% Neanderthal according to my genetic testing report and claiming that is simply claiming 2.4 percent of my dna derives from that population. I see nothing wrong with Warren using her DNA data to point out her family lore is accurate and that she very likely did have a Native American ancestor; moreover, I've seen reporting that she is more likely 1/32 Native American with a high likelihood she had a full-blooded Native American ancestor 6 or 7 generations back. What's wrong with claiming that? I don't get why this has gotten Douthat's shorthairs in a tangle. My 23&Me report gave similar information about grandparents 4 to 7 or more grandparents back that suggest I have Iberian and Baltic roots I knew nothing about. Am I supposed to never ever reveal this or express interest in data about my ancestry? People should get over this and move on.
5
It's interesting that having a speck of minority DNA would make you any more qualified to be in higher office, or, for that matter, care any more about people's everyday problems than anybody else. I think the working-class roots, and education etc. are more the issue.
1
If Senator Warren had done nothing, her ability, as a presidential candidate, to stand up to international threats and to protect the USA would have been in question. I can not believe that the Senator thought that releasing her genetic tests and witness statements would settle the matter and Trump would go hid in a corner. Anyone who attended middle school knows better. Her intended audience was not the GOP.
The way I see it, the Democratic Party needs to nominate someone Trump cannot bully. Problem is, he can bully just about everyone. I've only seen three people so far that I think can stand up to Trump without getting themselves dirty. Three people that I can't think up funny names for. Those three people are: Amy Klobuchar, Angus King and Joe Biden. Trump would try to bully Biden but I think Biden would relish standing up to him. Both Amy Klobuchar (Sen. MN) and Angus King (Sen. Maine) are smart, strong people, not easily mocked. Unfortunately, I believe Sen. King when he's told me (after I asked him to!), he wouldn't ever run. That leaves Klobuchar. A woman from the Midwest, a long-time public servant, a senator, a former prosecutor. I've thought for some time that she should run. I hope she does. I would work hard for her.
People like Warren, Booker, Harris, Gillibrand? Easy pickings for Bully Trump.
I vote for Klobuchar.
6
As a MA resident, I think its a shame that she didn't wait until after the mid term elections before she decided to pull this stunt in her attempt to be seen as a viable democratic presidential candidate. While it's clear she will win her re-election bid, it does a disservice to the process of being re-elected.
I'm an unenrolled resident of this state who didn't vote for her in 2012, I don't believe Senator Warren's schtick will play in the rest of the country.
Like the the democrats, I am looking for someone that can beat Trump and not be a punching bag for him. She's not the one.......
1
I don’t care a whit about this issue, but I don’t want Warren as president and I’m a Democrat. She’s too shrill, never mind the rest. Stay a senator please.
2
@A.K.
Are men ever "shrill?"
4
@Pecan
Depends. If they imitate Warren, the answer is a resounding "yes". Same for Mazie Hirono.
@A.K. Reading the comments the majority criticizing Warren are from men! Misogyny alive and well!
1
Sorry, but Warren does not have a realistic shot at becoming president. It’s not a gender thing, either. Hilary did have a shot and should’ve been president by all rights. She was presidential and everyone knew it. She scared the pants off Republicans because she was shrewd and capable and would’ve tussled and bargained and negotiated her way forward like few other politicians could have done. If Warren somehow managed to win the primary, which I just don’t see happening, she would get walloped in the general election.
Sorry Douthat, this is about a million bucks. The DNA test came back positive. Who cares by how much. Warren wins and Native American Women who are victims of abuse should get the 1 million. But we all know lying donnie always cheats his way out of debts and promises. This is just one more.
10
@Wine Country Dude
You had 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 ggrandparents, 16 gggrandparents, 32 ggggrandparents, and 64 gggggrandparents. Which of those would you like to erase from your history?
They're recent enough that their documents are easily found on Ancestry.com . Their wills, land purchases, enlistments in our country's wars, names on ships' manifests, marriages, baptisms, etc., etc.
Why the need to mock people for finding that one of the 64 was a Cherokee or a minuteman or a slave?
9
@Pecan
Don't understand your comment. I'm not seeking to erase any of my ancestors. Especially the one who reputedly had an Hispanic last name. But that does not, in any sane world, qualify this pasty-faced guy of overwhelmingly Irish and English lineage to call himself Hispanic.
Google the phrase "Black Irish". It's never been a slur, although in today's hypersensitive climate, never say never.
If Warren is the best we have against trump, tump will win.
1
@bobbrum don’t bet on it pal! Donald won’t be running for anything in 2020!
1
To lose anything to Trump is a career killer since he's relentless with his epithets and insults. He would call Warren Pocahontas in a debate because his base would love that and he doesn't care a whit if anyone else doesn't.
I'm sorry Michelle Obama, but when Trump goes low you must always attack and go lower if you hope to defeat him.
Subtlety is lost on Trump.
Elizabeth Warren just showed us terrible judgment by releasing her DNA results that showed the tiniest Native American DNA.
I agree that she should fire whoever suggested she release them.
Sadly, I think her candidacy is cooked.
2
Again and again Democrats evoke in me the memory of George Bernard Shaw's caution about wrestling with a pig. " You get dirty and the pig likes it."
When Obama produced his birth certificate he blinked and this DNA test would be the same if she actually had native american DNA. This is worse. I fully expect the Atlanta Braves' tomahawk chop to be revived at Trump rallies.
1
It's a wonder Democrats have any feet left considering the number of times they've shot themselves there. I enjoy watching them embarrass themselves and bungle opportunities because maybe - just maybe - they'll be forced to finally get their priorities straight. But I doubt it :)
2
Looking in from the outside, Ms Warren does not strike me as presidential, but then again neither did Hillary. I agree with Ross however. If you are not fully "something" (Irish, Native, Black, gay, Brooklynite, Bubba, gym rat etc .. then don't claim to be. Sell what you ARE, and not what the other guy ISNT. She took very poor advice (I hope).
I like Hildebrand. (did I spell it right?)
1
If, as you say, we're talking about this "for no good reason," then why compose this article? Incidentally, for once, I think you're right about the whole mess, and I agree with your after-the-fact advice for Warren.
Really, this is what you deemed to be the issue of the day to spend your column inches on?
I was thinking that the President's wholly laughable and cynical defense of a brutal Saudi torture and murder of a journalist in their own consulate might have warranted more ink than the insufficiency of a DNA test not meeting the challenge of Trump's daily bullying and lies.
However you can always be counted on to point the flashlight at the cockroach under the stairs when the whole house is on fire.
8
The Democratic Party's big wigs are fools if they think Warren can beat Trump. No chance!
I'm a Never Trump-er.
2
I doubt this is a major faux pas, but it was kind of stupid, Trump looked a lot more like an idiot when he called her "Pocahantas" (on top of everything else, Pocahantas was not a Cherokee) without the test. Personally I hope Warren is not the front runner, she is another policy wonk speaking with 60 point plans and all kinds of esoteric garbage, we had that with Hillary and it will be a guaranteed way to lose the election in 2020. Her having working class roots doesn't mean anything, Trump was a kid born with a diamond spoon in his mouth, didn't achieve anything with the grease from the old man, yet the working class voters the democrats want back voted for him in droves, even though his whole career was spent deriding working people. Her working class roots will mean nothing because she talks like a privileged person, she doesn't speak of working class like someone who lived as part fo that class, she speaks like a professor from an upper middle income background talking about it and it won't fly. Dan Moynihan came from working class roots, and though he was an academic (he wrote more books than most Senators read), you also knew from his speaking he lived the life, worked as a stevedore, and knew what it was like, Biden is much the same way.
2
I am a progressive Democrat. But I have to agree with this article that Senator Warren is not a credible candidate for President and this episode shows poor political judgement. She makes a great senator from Mass. Democrats can do better with another candidate.
1
I think Mr. Douthat and many commentators may have over intellectualized here.
The announcing video proves two things - i) Warren really is a self made working class hero with a real family and history, ii) Trump has picked on someone who will not be bullied.
Per other comments this announcement and video plus Warren's recent semi-official announcement that she is a candidate for POTUS in 2020 clear the deck for a real campaign.
As someone who feels a bit more in touch with flyover America than your average Bostonian I think this step works well for a large mass of voters outside of the coastal elites.
3
Again, Democrats held to a different standard. Elizabeth
Warren steps out of line and pays the price.
Meanwhile, Trump is held to no standards, and he "wins." I really don't get it.
18
Elizabeth Warren checked off "Native American" on application [to get preferential treatment].
This is so oft repeated so it takes on form of truth so that even her supporters accept it. But as far as I can tell it is not true although FOX News says it is. And those who repeat it would be lying if that is the case.
Warren has provided an archive of applications and papers that anyone can look up: https://elizabethwarren.com/fact-squad/archive/
As far as I can tell she never made such a claim on a job application. She did change her ethnicity after having a job, and after gaining tenure as a result of requests by the schools, as personnel files show. This was a period when people went from shame and hiding their background (such as Trump lying about being Swedish to embracing it. The schools were likely looking for anything they could use to promote diversity on the campuses.
She also has testimonials from those who hired her. (Why are Kavanaugh's letter of 65 women accepted by the right but Warren's are not? Double standard?)
Maybe I missed something in looking at these documents.
6
Mr. Douthat, Are you familiar with the term 'Concern Troll'. If not, look it up.
3
Trump claims Scottish ancestry. Let him take a DNA test and if the results show that he is off by more than .0001%, his opponents could all mock him as "Scrooge McDump" or "Beam me up tp Attica, Scotty," or perhaps, "The lyin' flyin' Scotsman."
4
@malibu frank
His mother was born on the Isle of Lewis in the Outer Hebrides in 1912, and arrived in the US in 1930.
He could have played soccer for Scotland, if he'd been any good at that.
1
@Malibu frank: Trump's mother was a Scottish immigrant. There is no doubt about this. Senator Warren by listing herself as Native American inflated a family anecdote into an identity. Very concerning for me.
Why are Democrats held at a higher standard than Republicans..big deal, so she called Trump out on his bet. Who says she lost big -- I say she won by showing him (yet again) to be a liar and a bully and a bigot. Give me a break.
25
@FB exactly!
1
I think everybody here agrees Warren is a disaster. Cannot imagine who gave her the advice to release the results.
8
I do not agree with that at all. She got ahead of an unreasonable attack and backed up her feelings towards her family history with DNA evidence, even if it's distant evidence. And Trump being such an idiot that he claims he never said the thing he is on video saying makes it even better.
This is a silly Op-ed.
6
I am from MA, so I have heard the right wing on this for awhile. Much of this is about affirmative action; in the wingnut view, Warren is unqualified and only got a job at Harvard by claiming to be a Native American
does anyone doubt, if we look at last 30 years, that affirmative action is, indeed, a potent issue ?
2)
Anyone who thinks the DNA test is going to change the wingnuts is crazy; I heard a longtime Warren critic, Howie Carr, on WRKO radio 15 Oct; in his mind, somehow, the DNA test made things worse for , his words, "fauxchahontas"
The GOP spent 10 years trying to kill Ocare and Community rating; now GOP candidates are running as *protectors* of community rating !!!!!!!!!!!
Even if God herself testified for Warren, if she is the nominee, Cable news will make "Her DNA" the biggest story of 2019
we can't beat Trump at his game
imo, the answer is pretty simple
We won't take away your soc security
We won't take away your healthcare
We won't let you go bankrupt when your parents need nursing home care
simple, clear compelling
I don't see how a mathematically complex story about DNA , just before the midterms, helps us
3
"having publicized it, she should quietly fire anyone who urged this gambit and move on."
Like H. Clinton should have done to some of her staff who were giving her shoddy information and advice?
Warren/Hirono in 2020!
Think of it: two women, two people of color, two outspoken liberals, and bicoastal to boot. What a shattered class ceiling will that be!
They'll sweep Massachusetts and Hawaii.
2
The White House is scrambling to respond to what amounts to the assassination of a U.S. resident and journalist. The talks with North Korea have faltered. Mitch McConnell, after ramming through an obscene trillion-dollar tax cut, is shocked -- shocked! -- that Medicare, Social Security, and related programs need money, and is talking about cutting them. The White House is the most corrupt since the Grant Administration -- perhaps ever.
And what does Mr. Douthat choose to talk about? Why, Elizabeth Warren of course! It's the same playbook spooled out daily on Fox News -- instead of focusing on the rot in this administration, let's talk about Democrats who are out of power.
What a waste of space. I hadn't realized that the NYT had become a fellow-traveler with Fox News, but that's the only conclusion to find this kind of trivia soiling your editorial pages.
13
@Jena-Auerstedt thank you! Ross is a Republican shill.
1
I tot+ally agre0p-----e that Warren made a real muck of this...
But to suggest that Trump is the source of Warren's "Pocahontas" nickname is flat-out wrong.
That name accrued to her when the subject first came up six years ago. It's been simmering in the Massachusetts political soup since then. That soup was flavored with such unflattering seasoning as "faux" affixed in place of the letters p and o, and the "hantas" replaced by a variation of the word "haunt". The two have also been used simultaneously to make an even spicier version of the ingredient.
What is clear is that the wound that Warren suffers from is self-inflicted, and self-inflicted sufficiently long ago as to have formed somewhat of a canker on her character.
Now, as to the DNA test itself? It proves absolutely nothing about Warren having Indian ancestry. Nothing. Zilch, Zippo.
The test required the use of proxy DNA sampled from dwellers in central Mexico and other parts of Central America on the logical presumption that they were the root of the American Cherokee who came from Tennessee, and North/South Carolina and the Delaware from the Delaware and Hudson vallies.. There have been no serious DNA studies that confirm the thesis.
Warren's DNA doesn't even reflect the AVERAGE Indian DNA in a typical American white.
Warren's self-inflicted Indian Heritage canker seems to be growing much like the nose of famous, story-book puppet.
5
So the moral of this story is that you really can't out-Trump Trump.
Sen. Warren just dished up, on a gold platter, the Trump rally hoo-ha: "Pocahontas is 1/1024th Cherokee! What are the other 1,023 parts?"...
I agree with Mr. Douthat that Sen. Warren should fire (maybe not quietly) whomever gave her the advice that this was actually a good idea.
While the left thinks Trump is an IQ-challenged misanthrope, he's actually a pretty shrewd political operator. I am convinced he propagates this notion to get his political opponents to underestimate him. Keep in mind, this is still the guy that thrashed 16 other establishment Republicans and, perhaps, the most qualified Democrat to ever run for the Presidency. In his Presidency, so far, he has produced a smoking hot economy, renegotiated NAFTA, destroyed ISIS, produced a Conservative SCOTUS for a generation and upended the liberal world order. He's got the left reduced to incoherent screaming mobs and the right kowtowing to his agenda.
So, no, it is a mistake to reduce Trump to the idiocy bin. In fact, how smart does Sen. Warren look after this silliness? When, exactly, will the left stop trying to minimize and underestimate Trump? They are playing right into his hands.
7
@Hillary “Smoking hot economy”?! Ha! He INHERITED this economy! With his tariffs and the deficit growing each day....wait and see!
2
I would be shocked if the NUT could get 3 votes.
Who in their right mind would vote for her.
2
Perhaps people who think Trump has been a liar and a cheat ever since he was old enough to wear long pants.
3
Warren just needs to remind people that she proved her family heritage with the DNA test to raise $1 million for struggling American Indian women, and "Pinocchio" stiffed her and them as he always does.
6
I'm embarrassed for Mr. Douthat and the press. Are you going at this angle because the terms racist, bully, bigot, and misogynist are losing their 'punch'? It's like yelling at someone who's driving us the wrong way in traffic, and having the back seat complain we're loud and boring.
4
How much was Debbie White Dove paid to slander Senator Warren? Interested parties may "google" this indian lady. The results could be exciting.
Anyone who believes trump/and or his supporters are above this sort of thing are quite naive. There is nothing too low for trump and his base.
4
Because it’s disrespectful: Warren is not a citizen of the Cherokee Nation.
2
Seriously? This is a thing? Trust me, liberals and progressives can put this issue in its rightful context:
1. The National Indigenous Women’s Resource Center is owed $1M from Donald Trump's personal bank account. Like RIGHT NOW.
2. Donald Trump is a disgusting excuse for a president, and he needs to be dragged through the courts to face and probably be found guilty on any number of extremely serious charges; and America needs to take a very long, hot antiseptic shower as soon as he's gone.
3. Anything Warren does or did pales in comparison to this disgusting manbaby's exceedingly long list of revolting transgressions and illegal behavior.
Those are the takeaways. Everything else is bullhockey.
11
@Magoo Well said!
1
The number of media pundits who have come out to attack Senator Warren is baffling.
She's not claiming to Cherokee, she's providing proof of her family history. And if the Cherokee Nation truly cares so much cultural affiliation as a condition for tribal membership, then why did they kick out the Freedmen's descendants?
And lastly, as far as I can tell, no-one has ever explained credit reports, interest charges, and late fees as cogently as she. Someone who can do that and someone who can call Trump out on his lies has a shot at beating him.
10
Why do you use the terms ‘Native American’ and ‘Indian’ interchangeably? Over half a century has passed and apparently some well educated people still don’t know that America is not India
2
@Saif Ansari Many Native American tribes use the term Indian to describe themselves.
She didn't do her homework. It only takes a few minutes on Twitter to see how Native American tribes feel about DNA testing. A tribe is a sovereign state. Some people bring a DNA test and expect to become a citizen of the tribe. That's not how it works. I have 32% Irish ancestry, but that doesn't entitle me to Irish citizenship.
I know Warren wasn't claiming membership rights. But this issue in general has been a big issue and if she'd done her homework, she would have realized she was just going to cheese people off by doing this test.
She did it to prove something to Trump, which is always a mistake.
Goodbye 2020. Stay in the Senate where you belong.
5
@Patricia...
It wouldn't have been a big issue had she not doubled down multiple times when this issue first arose.
I have no qualms about her defending herself. I have no qualms about her being angry...She should be.
But since she was the one that shot herself in the foot, she should have sought help instead of continuing to shoot.
And it is clear that with this she has just shot herself again, just as all was beginning to heal.
As for her staying in the Senate? If she is re-elected, this resident of Massachusetts will be really angry if she decides to take the next two years off while being paid a better-than-decent salary to go on her little ego trip.
We've have had far to many of our politicians chase the next shiny ball while letting the one they hold tarnish... See: John Kennedy, Teddy Kennedy, Michael Dukakis, John Kerry.
With the exception of JFK, none got elected. Teddy didn't make it out of the convention, and the other two lost so convincingly as to embarrass their own parties.
Isn't it ironic that right wing Republicans who would be first to discriminate against Native Americans are the first to complain that someone doesn't deserve their discrimination?
4
Interesting! I bet there are plenty of people out there who would boast about being 1/64 related to say, George Washington, or Henry VIII. In fact, the DNA testing kits lure purchasers into hoping that they will discover that some small fragment of their DNA links them to an historical figure. I think Mr. Douthat is confounding Senator Warren's blond and blue-eyed looks with what DNA testing really reveals.
4
It's incompetence like this that will get us 4 more years of the same. So sad to see the Democratic party filled with intelligent, well-educated, book smart individuals without a shred of common sense. I miss Barack Obama.
9
This is proof of the political aphorism that if you give someone enough rope, eventually they will hang themselves.
2
How many times can someone be wrong in the same article and still claim to not be part of the fake news network?
"So far Warren’s main encounter with the freak show has involved her claim to Cherokee ancestry, "
She claimed Native American ancestry. That was the box she checked off on the Harvard application. Also, the now whining Cherokee Nation fully embraced Warren's checking of that box when she did it years ago AND she received no additional affirmative action for doing so.
As for ignoring things Trump says about you, well, how'd that work for Hillary Clinton?
But this is just another case of white male America blaming another woman for coming forward not about vague claims of sexual assault but over DNA testing to prove she is who she says she is.
4
@Paul Warren did in fact claim to be Cherokee. Her submission to the Pow Wow Chow cookbook listed her as Elizabeth Warren - Cherokee. That was her claim.
1
@Paul...
The Cherokees never knew about her box check.
And when they found out, they called her out.
Talk about being accurate...You need some your posting, sir.
The problem with Warren is that she really just doesn’t get it. No one cares about her ancestry whatsoever unless you are a holdover from the eugenics movement.
People care about accountability.
Unfortunately, Warren has very little and now much less.
5
@Charlie
And yet, here you are commenting on the article. So someone cares.
There are over 12 MILLION people now who have paid to have their DNA tested. They're not holdovers from anything. They're people who enjoy the second (first?) most popular hobby, genealogy/family history/ancestor hunting.
1
The bigger point to this whole mess of a story is Lying DONALD TRUMP. He was quoted that he would donate a to a charity of her choice if she took the test, well we all know the story. Anyways he said "I never said that, NEVER". If he can lie about this when it has been recorded , he will lie about anything , (Russians,taxes , etc.) Please VOTE this coming November and put some brakes on this LUNATIC, Please
8
@rich g...
Offers on the table can easily come off the table..and often do in negotiations. Any negotiator will tell you that, even the most inept.
Had Warren taken him up on the deal absent the obvious push to clear the rubble for her presidential run, Trump would be in a box.
Warren doubled down when she should have taken his bet.
Her "gotcha" failed. She needs to get over it.
1
'I defy you to find a single person ... who believes that someone who might be one-64th or even one-32nd Indian ... should qualify as a first “minority” hire in anything'
The Chairman of the Cherokee tribe publicly admits he is only one-32nd Indian. Would he not qualify as a minority?
No-one with any sense thinks Sen Warren is trying to "get away" with being a Native American. She's simply trying to keep Donald Trump from getting away with being a lying, bigoted creep. And she's right, on this topic.
6
@Election Inspector As the Cherokee tribe has pointed out, DNA analysis does not prove or disprove Native American status - which is partly why what Senator Warren did is deeply offensive to Native Americans. Membership in Cherokee nation is determined by their own rules and has nothing to do with DNA. They require a person to prove direct lineage from the Cherokees listed in OK in 1907. It does not matter how closely one is related to these ancestors, only that they prove direct lineage. Under these tribal rules, Warren does not qualify for Cherokee citizenship and thus her claims are false, regardless of DNA.
1
Trump stated publicly that he would contribute 1 mllion dollars if she took a DNA test and it showed evidence of Native American ancenstray.
So why don't you stop referring to HER as the one who looks bad.
10
@Jbugko...
Ah..."Whataboutism" is alive an well in the left of the body politic.
How astonishing ! ! !
1
@Jbugko He said that if she took the test and it proved she was an Indian, then he would donate $ to charity. The test did not prove she was Native American. She is actually less Native than the average white American. There is no way to spin the results to show that she has any legitimate claim to Native American status.
@The Owl,
I'm glad she took the test and that Trump and his shallow far-right partisans are still using their trite insults - thus proving they have absolutely no sense of decency or shame and are also severely lacking in imagination and foresight.
As to your claim of "whataboutism" - I would feel sorry for someone who makes such a conclusory "observation", but actually it's exactly what I was expecting.
Nobody with a Native American ancestor "6 to 10 generations back" is anything close to being Native American
10
@Luciano
Exactly. Which is why parsing 1/64 to 1/1024 only reinforces Trump's argument. What a joke.
The media industrial complex is doing it again.
The media is holding Warren to a higher standard than they do Trump.
The media did this for decades with Hillary Clinton.
I mean, look at all the investigative journalism of Trump’s finances that were done by the paper of record before the election and what a relief it was when The NY Times finally got Trump to release his tax returns.
I’m just glad that after all Hillary’s emails dumped by Putin’s puppet, Matt Lauer and Charlie Rose will now be vindicated because there is proof that she’s a degenerate woman seeking power.
The media’s default position was then and is now,(See Tony DoKoupil’s CBS interview with Hillary this past week), that Hillary had a hidden agenda to be a player in a man’s game, hence the secret email server.
But I digress...
I have dealt with bully’s my whole life and you cannot reason with them, you must remove from them any vestige of power the bully believes to have over you.
You can’t be afraid of what the bully or his cohort will say, you can’t say or do things in response to a bully that you would say or do when responding to a normal person.
This is what Warren has done and instead of focusing on a sitting president’s inability to control himself and what he says, we are spending time discussing how wrong she was to do it.
You’re doing it again.
5
Well, she is my Senator and a Contender. Mr. Douthat is not. Why not throw your hat in the ring and see how you do?
4
You cannot play Trump's game... you will lose. He's been doing this all his life and he is a pro.
7
@Blue Skies
Agree.
He mocks Avenatti, e.g., for being a porn star's lawyer, but HE -- Trump -- was the porn star's customer.
He mocks others for being fat, but HE -- Trump -- wears his overcoat on a warm sunny autumn day to cover his big . . . . and his bulging thighs.
Etc. It's all projection. The person he hates is the 400-lb. slob sitting in his bed, surrounded by Big Mac wrappers.
5
I like Douthat, but here he does Elizabeth Warren a GREAT disservice and is WAY off base. Warren took on Trump and succeeded more than any other Democrat has been able to do, and she has done this before. She provides VERY authoritative evidence for her Native American ancestry, and makes VERY clear the limits of the evidence (eg, Native American but not a specific tribe). She, at her website, provides VERY convincing evidence that her Native American heritage had NOTHING to do with her career, from university days to career as a law professor at Harvard. lt's all there at the website ... PLUS she can take on Trump at his own game ! ("having memory problems? Should I get a doctor?")
Douthat writes "what Warren ... OBVIOUSLY should have done was to simply express mild regret for enthusiasm ... for family lore ... and when Trump started up ... simply IGNOR HIM" ... WRONG !?! this is what Hillary did: smile, ignor him, take the high road ... IT DOESN'T WORK in today's America ! Democrats, to win votes, must show they are strong and able to confront successfully the bigots and bullies of the world, BEGINNING WITH TRUMP! THEN, and ONLY thee, take the high road.
What Warren did is very impressive ... and makes her a front-runner for me. Douthat needs to reexamine his position ... and compare Warren favorably with Jonathon Bernstein rather than with Avenatti !?!
5
@dnarep...
Well. Warren certainly didn't handle it all that well, either then or now.
And any sane advisor would recommend the Tylenol strategy, which is exactly the type of approach that Warren should have used, and Douthat has indicated.
This is Warren's screw up. And as long as she doesn't own it by choice, she's going to be fair game for criticism...
If you want a political parallel, just look at how Nixon resurrected himself...by continually admitting to his error whenever it came up and acknowledging that his error left him fair game.
Trump said he would pay for her charity if she took a DNA test that showed she WAS an indian. What the DNA test has shown is that her amount of indian DNA was neglible, within a rounding error. Her DNA does not prove she is Indian, the DNA test proves she is white.
4
Lesson: don't play Trump's game.
8
With all the uproar over "cultural appropriation" that often strikes me as harmless or even complimentary (though I know I am the least important voice on that subject), it seems to me much more ethically fraught for members of a conquering race that largely and cruelly exterminated a continent of indigenous cultures to profess pride at the fact that somewhere all the way in that process of extermination and forced assimilation some indigenous genes found their way into their ancestry unless one is very clear on the circumstances. Should the white descendants of slave owners be proud of the presence of some African genes in their DNA? I think this "pride" in American Indian ancestry denies what our European ancestors did to the indigenous in the name of glamorizing them and attaching ourselves to them. It feels so much worse to me than cultural appropriation of art and music and symbols.
As usual Douthat is way off base. Warren did the smart move here. Her announcement takes the edge off the matter, and now she can ignore it. Will it faze Trump - of course not, and she knows it. Have no doubt he will find something else demeaning to say about her, as he does about all women.
7
Once again, a photo editor has selected an image of a woman that focuses on her face and shows her with an open mouth and a confrontational expression. Contrast it with the image of the man in the DNA-geneology story, an almost three quarter length portrait, who we are told is wrestling with a dilemma but looks more like he is sharing a recipe over the fence. Images matter. The more often we show women this way, the more it reinforces the "angry" stereotype.
4
It really is humorous as an independent to watch in this case the left totally ignore what appears to at the least be dishonesty and only worry about the ramifications since they support the candidate. Of course if Warren was right wing then every comment here would be the opposite. Just shows you how hypocritical both those on left and right are when they act like they care about honesty. It's only an issue if it's someone from the other party. Just admit it and lets move forward.
2
Just reacting to the headline. With everything that's been factually reported in the last three years about what Trump has said and done, from the embarrassing to the heinous — a list that it would literally takes hours to recite — with no personal repercussions and plenty of support from those on the right, Douthat's term "fiasco" does not even pique my interesting enough to bother reading his essay. I say ho-hum.
5
I applaud Senator Warren for revealing her ancestry. Dr. Bustamante who discussed the data with her on the phone is a scientist of utmost skill and integrity. It is unfortunate the Cherokees and Pocahontas kin are complaining.
Why didn't they complain about Trump making ridiculous statements in the presence of the Navajo Code Talkers, true war heroes who enabled countless victories and saved many lives ? This was a humiliation of all Native Americans by Trump, right then and there.
The Cherokees need to study their own history. They excluded the Black Cherokees from tribal roles after first enslaving their ancestors and then living with them for generations. Maybe it is only about money after all, to increase per capita federal subsidies and gambling income ?
1
@EJ
Butamante has a reputation for skill and integrity in his work...
But using proxy DNA from central and southern Mexico and other areas of Central America is somewhat of a stretch.
Remember, the Cherokees originate in North and South Carolina and eastern Tennessee. The Delawares from the Hudson and Delaware River Valleys.
Any relationship that he can postulate dates back to the Clovis settlements...
And THAT relationship is some thing virtually every white American shares...He's essentially labeling entire white population of the nation American Indian.
My point: While his since may well be valid, it ends up essentially meaningless when applied to Warren or meaningful to everyone else, too.
We know why she opened this door...
What's puzzling me is why she can't seem to close it.
I care a lot more about Trump dodging tax payments (his entire life), calling women horrible names, and defending and emboldening the alt-right, than I care about Elizabeth Warren being our not being 1/16 Native American. And I will vote accordingly this year and in 2020.
4
@JT Jones...
Tax dodging is legal. Tax evasion is not.
If you have problems with the tax laws, work to get the laws changed...
And tell us with a straight face that you haven't made a dodgy deduction or ten on YOUR tax returns.
Tax avoidance is absolutely within the bounds.
Some even say that we have a duty to protect our own income and wealth by only paying the taxes that are required.
Yes, an American resident (that’s someone with a green card...like my brother in law) was tortured and murdered by the Saudi’s and Trump is super cool with that.
But Warren’s somewhat hamhanded DNA test information is what the BIG scandal is this week.
The chattering classes need to shut up. No one in the real world actually cares. Probably about either of these things to be honest, but at least the first issue is one of real importance.
2
Could it be that Warren baited Trump into mocking a woman and American Indians just when Heidi Heitkamp needs the support of both? Could it be she wanted to bait him into welshing on yet another a charitable pledge? Give her some credit for the kind of political smarts that defeated the media darling in the pickup.
Nonsense, Trump challenged Sen Warren, aka “Pocahontas” to prove that she has Native American ancestry. She called his bluff, now, as usual, Trump is trying to get out of paying what he pledged. Trump is the one in the wrong, but Douthat has the typical conservative blind spot that allows Trump to continue to engage increasingly deplorable behavior while calling Democrats out for imaginary wrongs.
4
@Amy Raffensperger
I think Trump owes $976.56 ($1,000,000/1024)...
Again Trump lies, well all the time, but specifically he lied for years about being Swedish rather than German. It's even in his book. And we and his father lied about their origins so that they could make more money by not appearing to be German to their renters/buyers at a time when being so wasn't good.
Trump lies about his past all the time. Even if you discount the Stormy Daniels we have his admitted on tape behavior and the affair with Marla Maples.
These are were knowing lies.
Compare to Warren retelling her family story and when interviewed by a school looking for promote diversity she mentioned her background. Which she was no reason to doubt. She believes she is telling the truth. The DNA even provides some scant proof.
Yet it's Warren the right puts out as the liar.
The Trump way is to lie more, lie harder, lie first, lie so much people accept the narrative.
3
@Marie...
Given that in World War II, when the United States was at war with Germany and Japan, many people of German or Japanese ancestry claimed different heritage.
And given the reaction of the US Government, led by probably one of the most famous Democrat ever, that had every reason to do so.
Before you go with blanket condemnations, you should really look to the history of the time in making your pejorative comment.
@The Owl
Given that Trump had only two newspapers endorsing him for president in 2016 i.e., the National Enquirer and the Crusader (the KKK's official newspaper), and that Trump's filth-driven rhetoric is reprehensible bullying of a woman more adept, astute, and at least 20x smarter and at least 50x more ethical than he is, I have to ask - just what on earth ARE you defending.
So she's between 1/64th and 1/1024th Native American. Let's compromise at 1/256th. Trump promised $1 million to charity of her choice, so let's make it a round $4,000. Fair's fair, Mr Trump. Sen Warren has never claimed more than family - lore which proves to be correct.
5
It amazes me that Elizabeth Warren, from Oklahoma, has forgotten that the issue of tribal membership involves ethnic pride, certainly, but also very practical issues of money. In her native Oklahoma, the Native American ownership of oil and resource rich land was challenged legally and with murder. In Arizona, the issue of the right to open a casino in a state where gambling was illegal (and a casino would be very profitable) depended on official tribal membership. Adoption issues depend on a very precise definition of tribal membership. Ms. Warren should have remembered how serious this matter is before trumpeting a very, very small component of possible, and I stress possible, Native American ancestry; I'm still not even accepting that the very superficial traits of racial identity, which look huge to us, would reliably show up in a DNA test; could you perhaps call in a specialist on this? The claims being made on television for DNA identification sound equally specious to me.
3
Senator Warren's error was to claim Native Ancestry on a job application, and to allow that University to tout her as a minority hire. Native Americans suffer from poverty and a lack of opportunity at a much higher rate that other groups in the US. Added to that, their cultures and languages exist nowhere else in the world, and are under threat.
Many Americans proudly claim Native Heritage, an ancestor from way back. If this is kept as part of their family story-no problem.
We promote minorities in this country partly to right a wrong, but also as an opportunity to support understanding of diverse cultures.
Harvard touting Warren as a minority did not right a wrong-she had not suffered due to her Native Heritage, nor did it promote an actual Native professor who would help spread knowledge of this culture and serve as a role model for Native students. THIS was the wrong-not any debate with Trump.
An apology was the only correct response.
If you don't understand why Tribal Membership matters, you need to educate yourself. This is a complex and imperfect system, and it has very real consequences for Natives who belong and who do not.
15
I believe I am 1/64 (2%) native American, of the Chumash Tribe by way of my Grandfather. He was born move than 100 years ago in San Luis Obispo, California, in the center of Chumash native lands, and never revealed which of his great grand parents was native American. Sometimes on forms that say "check all ethnicities that apply," I also check "Native American". But only if I can also check "Caucasian/White."
Pre-industrial Native Americans were a "close to the earth" people with many important cultural attributes. Some of their tribal organizations and cultural ways had developed far beyond that of the European invaders. Some tribes were quite warlike. I have felt some affinity with this "close to earth" aspect of tribal life -- mainly I think because the utter disregard industrial culture has with preserving its own natural environment.
Nevertheless, I don't consider myself Native American, but someone with long hair and a few drops of tribal blood.
That said, I don't see any comparison between her reticence to reveal more details in this disregard and the utter reluctance of Republicans to follow the existing laws of the nation in both the Supreme Court nomination and election laws in the run-up to the midterms.
Every article about "Pocahantas" is column inches that could have gone to investigating illegal voter suppression by the Republicans.
What's more important -- the Warren/Trump psychodrama, or whether votes are being suppressed?
7
This is so right on. I am Jewish, at least 25 % first generation American as my mother was born in Germany and my father's parents were born in Russia (etc). That does not make me special or should it make me available for preferential treatment for college or business or anything. I am from a group who excelled in this country, who have enough privilege and opportunity. Maybe if I was black and/or poor I should get preferential treatment but being 1/30th indigenous or half Jewish should make no difference if I was from a successful middle class family. If I was running for office I would let people know that I should be judged solely on my record, my ideals, values, my ideals and my goals to improve this country.
3
I doubt there's many people who would use a candidate's ancestors to make a voting decision.
2
Trump got to Warren under her skin. Warren wanted to get back at Trump so much that it blinded her from the fact that it may lead to political self-implosion.
4
This is an excellent analysis and article. It shows that Douthat can grapple intelligently with an issue.
So where is the gusher of Monday Op-eds with fire and brimstone fury denouncing what Ross Douthat knows is the essential evil and institutional destructiveness of Trump.
I mean, step back for a moment. In moral terms, what exactly is the point of microanalyzing a brief peccadillo on Warren's or anyone else's part when the very idea that a tax cheating, philandering, predator, and sociopathic liar, with next to no concrete knowledge of what policy is about, might gain an advantage by cynically distracting people to make a judgment that Elizabeth Warren, as distinguished by implication from Donald Trump, is not morally fit to be President?
Who cares? Until Sen. Warren published the test results, I had nearly forgotten about this kerfuffle from the last election. What was she thinking? DNA science tells us that nearly everyone could trace their ancestry back to Africa about 10,000 or so years ago -- does that make everyone African American? Her connection to the Cherokee nation is so attenuated as to make little sense to brag about it. She should acknowledge the silliness of this issue and move on.
2
Trump's initial reactions - "who cares?" and denying that he made a bet over Warren's heritage - tell us everything we need to know. He publicly doubted her story and she proved him wrong. The idea that this was a "fiasco" for Warren took a day or so to gel among Trump supporters, among whom we can evidently now count Ross Douthat.
4
There is a big problem with the statement that "the average white American is such and such a fraction, like 0.18%, Native American ancestry." First its true. I have a sample of 3000 or so DNA files of mostly white Americans, and the number is correct.
But its the wrong statistic. The problem is that lots of those
people with some Native American DNA have lots and lots of it. The vast majority of white American have none at all. Warren is thus a true outier since she has a real, verified, amount at all. Please note that numbers by the commerical companies themselves can't be trusted. Mine, surely Bustemante's, and to some extent Gedmatch's, can.
1
Those who are interested in genealogy know that many European-Americans and African-Americans grew up hearing family lore about Native-American ancestors.
Now that genealogy is the 2nd most popular hobby in America, many have learned from Ancestry.com and FamilyFinderDNA and 23&Me that they ARE/ARE NOT descendants of indigenous tribes.
Not surprising that Trump would insult the millions who enjoy learning about their ancestors and the historical context in which they lived.
3
This is a pointless exercise, Mr. Douthat, which the link to the article you yourself provided ("confirmed subsequently by documentation") as a proof of Senator Warren's misguided righteous claims to Native American ancestry otherwise disproved - her ancestry was never a part of her career advancements.
What you do not realize - though it's so obvious by now - is that ignoring Mr. Drumpf and his cohorts (well, Republican party as a whole, in general, and particular) is just a proof TO THEM that they are right on the matter, even when it is far from the truth as can be. Not refuting their fake claims is the truth in itself for them.
And the low percentage of ancestry - or lack thereof - definitely does not give Mr. Drumf the right to be racist and misogynist, but he will do it anyway.
So, with this Senator Warren is not addressing her target audience - she is cutting the weak legs on that fake claim and exposing the basic hypocrisy + putting the foot in their mouth - though we know it's kind of pointless, the bully would do it anyway.
Why didn't you just say how ridiculous is Senator Warren for starting her presidential campaign this early? No need to go around her academic moves which - it looks from all the arguments presented in the investigation of her career - were made on her part mostly to point out that she has the ears and the heart for minority issues, which all along was a well known fact from what you deemed "heterodox" already.
Warren is an aging socialist who spends too much time listening to others where Trump spends no time. Neither of them are prepared for this current world. Isn't there anyone in this country willing to take the hard hits to get us back on track? Warren will just end up letting her staff run this country, as she is too gullible. A real grown up ignores Trump. She just seems to be letting him toy with her and she can't see it. If this is your candidate, Democrats, think harder.
1
Come on now, Elizabeth is a front runner, what is she a front runner for ?
I would think that might now be almost impossible. She lied, she used that lie and now she has tried to explain the BIG lie with statistics, lies and statistics, you know that can't be a good combo.
1
Trump has a clever way of baiting and then switching. Every rational person who thinks logically wants to respond with logic reason and truth. But it's a bait, and no one should be taking his bait. The only way to combat Trump with such issues is not by truth or logic or even common sense. but by completely ignoring his bait. He happily ignores demands his tax returns or anything else that makes sense. Now this has only gotten Warren into more trouble.
Idea: she wants folks like you to barbeque her now while it's not that big of a story. Then it's out and she can henceforth claim she indeed had an Indian ancestor just as she claimed she did. Trump will still lambast her, but he does that to anyone opposing him. It does ease our minds that it was not a lie.
2
Isn't this exactly what is meant by "cultural appropriation"? Personally I don't like this concept because it is often ridiculously applied to white people doing things that should "belong only to people of color" like enjoying a cuisine or dressing in a certain way. The application of the concept goes to such extremes that white people are criticized for participation in a cultural event in a museum exhibition about Japan, as it happened recently.
But when a progressive leftist publishes recipes of a Native cuisine while pretending to belong to the people of that cooking tradition, that's just fine? I mean that's literally cultural appropriation. Benefiting from presenting a culture one doesn't have any connection to is, of course, fine (we do it all the time in academia). But benefiting specifically from claiming such a connection, as Warren did, is not the same. Even some far-leftist feminists are a bit puzzled by her behavior.
That aside, it don't think that doing the DNA test was tactically wrong. It would've come up sooner or later. She preempted much harsher attacks that would probably follow down the line. This episode will cool off by the end of the week.
10
@natan -- Isn't it possible that her Native-American ancestor passed down a family recipe through many generations? I don't know how much German ancestry I have, but I do have several German recipes that were passed down to me by my grandmother from her German immigrant grandmother, just as my husband has recipes passed down from the Italian and English sides of his family.
1
As Ross Douthat knows very well, Elizabeth Warren has never been the "Democratic front-runner," and she isn't the party's strongest candidate by a long shot. The Democrats admire her, but we have a number of other people whose chances of winning are much better. If Douthat really believes Warren has damaged her candidacy with the genetic test, the point is moot. Which leads me to wonder why he really wrote this column. He usually has some kind of ulterior motive. Maybe this time he wants other Democratic candidates to refrain from fighting aggressively against Trump. That won't happen. Face it, Ross. The leader of your party isn't the formidable opponent you pretend he his. Now that America has gotten to know Trump, and without Putin to help him steal another election, he's doomed.
2
As a Democrat who has always voted Democrat I never planned to vote for Warren. She's too far to the left for me. She'd make a great member of the cabinet. The DNA/Native American story should have been left alone. She chose to resurrect it and then push it. Bad move. There goes her street cred.
8
I am a Democrat, but give me a break - her Indian ancestry is so minuscule, that to mention it was ridiculous (and she should not have taken the test). Just about all of us have a touch of something in us if we go back far enough.
Warren is not the right person to run in 2020 - and should not run we want to win. We can do a whole lot better -prime example: “Spartacus” Booker - it was a silly statement on his part, but if this the worst we can say of him; and I will gladly take it; and Kamala Harris. Both smart, energetic, and caring people.
3
Aren't we in the era were facts are supposed to matter. If Sen. Warren's dna test shows she had a Native American ancestor, that's a fact. She should be able to acknowledge that fact, especially in the face of fake ridicule from a bully like Trump.
I'm lost about the nuances of political correctness and full-contact partisan combat if a fact, once established, can't be stated in public.
1
I had thought the Elizabeth Warren might be a good choice for her ideas and what I thought were her ethics. This whole thing gives me pause. At the very least she has shown extremely poor judgement and a willingness to distort her background.
I hope someone who has integrity comes out of the muck of politicians who can get us out of the mess which is Trump. My sense is that that will not be Warren.
8
@Observer How is she distorting her background? She took a DNA test to support her claim that she has Native American ancestry and it came back saying she was telling the truth! The big thing she revealed is that she is willing to back up her claims, while our current president likes to make all sorts of outlandish claims and then claim he never said those things -- that's what I call "unethical."
5
@kathleen. In the article it brings up her being listed as "Native American" at the University of Pittsburg and being listed at Harvard as their "first woman of color". She should never have allowed this. I know that I never would. When she found out about this - either before or after she was referred to as such - she should have had the references removed. She is on record as Harvard's first woman of color? This makes my head spin.
Since she apparently takes the view that she can win the argument, and potentially a future election, through presentation of air-tight facts such as the DNA test, she does not (yet) understand one of Trump's key strengths and is doomed to be be steamrolled by it. Trump is a savant at one thing: identifying a weakness of an opponent, giving it a cynical moniker, and deploying it to devastating effect. Notice that talent is not described by the phrase "win at wonkish policy debates." Conversely, she cannot win by brawling with Trump inside his octagon.
As Robbie Mook lamented post-2016, Clinton's campaign set aside policy debates, and instead focused on issues such as Trump's racism, etc., a crucial mistake. For instance, Trump correctly understood that his base viewed him as a racist; there was no sense worrying about the downside of such an accusation, but plenty of hidden upside in keep the spotlight on it. By focusing on hot-button issues, Clinton failed to demonstrate to the electorate that Trump knew zero about policy matters. THAT is his Achille's heel, and the obvious future focus of Warren's campaign (playing to HER strength).
Just another example of Trump baiting the left and they can't stop themselves. This episode proves one thing only, namely, that she may have been a professor at HLS but it doesn't mean that she is very smart.
2
You think this changed anybody's mind?
What I think is that she just protected herself against charges that she was lying about her ancestry.
She didn't protect herself against the charge that she didn't deserve special treatment -- but she denies that and may have just bolstered her credibility.
This isn't about trying to win over anybody who still likes Trump. It's about assuaging the concerns of moderates who might be afraid she's a liar.
4
There are few people I've known or talked to who do not "talk up" their ancestors, whoever they were. Pride in your blood is not necessarily something I understand, but most people have it. And besides, Trump offered $1 million to her favorites charity if she put up the DNA results showing Am Ind ancestry. Heck, yes, she's gonna get them and put them up, and now it's time for Trump to pay up.
Besides, if someone (not just Warren) downplays their non-white ancestors, Trump would be calling them racist. Trump is one guy who loves to have it both ways.
1
Elizabeth Warren is the ONE candidate that Trump will beat with absolute certainty. It will be a disaster for the Democrats. Why can she not see this?
Run, Joe, run!
2
Trump is not the issue. The issue is the mainstream media, who will flog her to death with this issue 24 hours a day, seven days a week from the time she announces to Election Day, just like they did with Hillary’s emails and Obama’s pastor. At least now she has a retort and maybe they will be sick of talking about it by the time it matters.
4
I am an Elizabeth Warren fan. I love how she sticks up for us average people against corruption between politicians and mega corporations. But this episode is nothing short of deplorable. It's obvious she's interested in running against Trump in 2020 but getting into the gutter with him is not the way to go about it.
Senator Warren's DNA gambit is not exactly looking inspired but it's a mighty long way in politics to 2020. If she was going to do something like this she needed to do it early.
Of course Trump & the other Republicans are going to lie about it, claiming that she has less Indian DNA than the average American. But that's what they do, lie.
She shouldn't make a big deal out of it but she might occasionally point out that she does have more native American DNA than most folks but is not, in any way, claiming to be an Indian.
1
It's useful as yet another documented example of how Trump is dissociated from reality.
1
There are so many other issues that Mr. Douthat could be focusing on. Why magnify this one?
As one of the conservative columnists for the Times, do you really have to emphasize the current issues in the partisan boxing ring? Why not step outside and offer some real perspective?
Where do you want to see this country going?
1
Sorry, but I find Ross Douthat tiresome in his effort to appear unbiased. He makes rather underhanded comments about Ms. Warren, like "The identification (as having Native American ancestry) didn’t seem to have improved her academic career", implying that her academic career was somehow lacking, when, in fact, she has had a distinguished career as a law professor.
Given the monstrosity of Trump, and the need to unseat him, it's difficult to understand what game Mr. Douthat is playing with his snide remarks about an outstanding woman who might be considering a run in the 2020 elections.
5
Even assuming the best numerical case for Warren, does 1/64th qualify as ancestry?
To make the case is to acknowledge how absurd it is.This woman listed herself as Native American and Harvard proclaimed her a "woman of color". Arguing that "ancestry" is determined by what was the genetic material of one's great great great grandparent is laughable. And that is putting aside that the genetic calculation had to rely on Peruvians instead of Native Americans.
Trump absolutely wins the bet, by any rational construction of the word "ancestor". 1/64 to 1/1024? Bring it on.
9
Why is there so much fuss about this? Elizabeth Warren says there was family lore in her family about being partly Native American. She takes a DNA test and it may be true.
The president repeatedly insults and bullies her by calling her "Pocahontas" which he means to be demeaning. His bad behavior is the real story here.
11
Ross there's a big difference between having Cherokee roots, and qualifying for tribal status. Warren never claimed she qualified for tribal status. Trump denies saying he would give $1 million to charity which we all know is a lie. Yet the press makes this the story. You and others perpetuate his ability to lie and demean others and get away with it. There's a story here, but it isn't about Warren having a DNA test.
5
Dems, support Warren for president if you wish. That is your right.
But don't be silly. This test did nothing to support her long time claim to be Native American -- which was her claim, not that some where back in the 18th or early 19th century there was possibly a Native American in her family tree.
Nothing in the test results distinguish her lineage from millions of European Americans whose families have been in this country for 200 years.
So support her if you want. But don't be silly by saying that the DNA test is scientific proof that she is native American. That is Trump derangement syndrome writ large.
And you have to ask yourself, at what point in her life did Warren decide she was Native American and why? We know it goes back as far as the mid 1980's when she both identified herself as native American for academic purposes, and said she was Cherokee for the pow wow chow cookbook -- for which it is said she plagiarized 3 of the recipes she submitted.
She claims she didn't gain advantage, but then one wonders, why did she do it? What we do know that about the time that she self identified as NA, her academic career sky-rocketed. She went from teaching at a mid tier law school ultimately to full professorship at Harvard. That is virtually unheard of and would likely never happen for a white male graduate of a mid tier state law school who then went on to teach at a mid tier law school. That probably deserves some investigation.
5
@Ralphie People like to embrace their heritage and family stories. The alternative is to erase and reject parts of your past. And clearly she fights for under-represented groups. And she is a smart, tough, accomplished public servant. Trump meanwhile lied about his entire origin story of being self-made. I wonder why he did it? Was he trying to help people?
@MCF sorry, can't agree at all with her embracing her past. If her family thinks their is a native American in their background and it was part of their culture, don't you think they might have investigated it, or incorporated some of the rituals? At least tried to ID who it was? Certainly before she self ID'd as NA don't you think she would have checked it out? What person wouldn't?
As far as her family passing down lore...while it was cool to be White and also have some NA in your blood back in the 60's (you know, get back to the land, the pure NAmericans unsullied by Whites, unless you had to go live on a reservation) wasn't always
something people wanted to talk about. Most often they tried to hide it. My wife's grandmother was half Cherokee and when she took her family to California for work in the 30's, they pretended to be Portuguese because of the discrimination.
And the story about relatives opposing her parents marriage because her mother (or was it her father) was part Delaware or Cherokee is stretching the envelope. Certainly hardly likelhy if the NA ancestor was 8 generations back.
There are plenty of real issues on which Elizabeth Warren should run. These diversions into ancestry of minuscule and practically homeopathic proportions are a silly and annoying distraction from much more serious topics.
2
Nice try. The bottom line is that Senator Warren is truthful and credible. The other side....not so much.
13
The other side ... not at all.
Neither side is very credible...
2
Willful misrepresentations and misprisions here, as if Mr. Douthat cannot fathom the proper distinctions Senator Warren’s video actually make. For more, see Charlie Pierce:
https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/amp23845480/elizabeth-war...
1
All Trump needs to do now is reveal his own DNA results that show just as much American Indian lineage as Warrens meager 1/64th or 1/1000 percent. Then he could claim he and Warren are related. That should push her past her current 9 on the tension level demeanor to all but insane.
When I saw the headline I was expecting a whole lot more. Maybe a miscalculation, not quite a fiasco. "Fiasco" is an attempt to equate this to what our federal government has been up to for last 21 months.
4
I wont go into the lies Mr Douthat tells here. Lies for political gain. Mr Douthat’s arguments on the use of race by Mrs Warren have be thouroughly disproven elsewhere.
There is nothing Ms Warren could have done to please Mr Douthat.
Ms Warren’s family has a history made up of people. It is a history that is hers. No one not you, not Donald Trump, not the Cherokee nation has a right to take that from her.
She is not a member of a native American tribe.She has never claimed that. She has ancestors that she values.
Same as a soneone who claims slight decent from the mayflower settlers or the Daughters of the American Revolution. I doubt Mr Douthat would go after those people, and he certainly doesnt appear to have a problem with the People who trace to the confederacy.
The only difference with Ms Warren is that she is a democrat and Ross is an unrepentant hypocrit.
3
Warren is a perfectly fine Senator. But, if she is the Democratic party's best hope for President, welcome to four more years of Donald Trump!
7
I agree and think that Warren made a very big mistake which will later come out and haunt her if she runs against Trump.
Race may be used for racial judgements that form the basis of discrimination, but it can also serve as an epithet to distant one's group from another group of the same race and ethnicity, such that a term may also be used to prevent 'marrying down', in terms of status and economic class.
What Warren has done is to fall into Trump's playbook. Later on, it will be difficult for Warren to claim Trump as opportunistic and immoral, because Trump will claim she is no better.
It is difficult to run with such baggage, especially on the Democratic platform, where minority votes really do make a substantial difference.
We need new Democrats to represent the interests of the working and middle class---even more than Obama and Clinton did. We don't need more Dem presidents putting Wall St bankers in their cabinets, or candidates getting millions from speeches to bankers while asking for the votes of millions hurt by the 08 crash.
Democracy for Dummies.
Warren since the 08 crash has stood out, trying to protect the citizen majority, through needed govt regulations. That's why the GOP dislike her. Sanders was the most popular politician in polls in 2017. The media, including NYTimes columnists, hasn't been discussing their policies in a realistic way.
But sensational stuff they'll discuss. We get it.
Does the media not like to discuss actual policies that go against the wealthy mega donors' limits? The same donors the media makes profits from in fees for campaign ads?
Isn't this all related?
2
Putting aside Elizabeth Warren's Native American heritage controversy, I hope and pray that Democrats find a presidential candidate who is considerably younger than 70 years old. This includes Bernie Sanders. These elder states people should concentrate on being king makers, not candidates. Finding someone with youthful vigor, to play against Mr. Trump's old mean white guyness will be a powerful asset. Maybe Beto.
5
Trump publicly challenged her to take a DNA test to "prove" she had Native American ancestry. She took it. And it does confirm that she has some Native American ancestry. Now it's up to Trump to make good on his promise to donate $1,000,000 to a charity to be named by her. According to him, that small an amount should not be a problem.
6
@Pete, She could be South American Indian for these are the DNA samples matched against. Read the article.
1
@Pete
If 1/64 to 1/1024 qualifies as "ancestry", we are all (as genetic descendants through Africa) African-American. Rachel Dolezal would be proud.
2
Conservatives look for something comic or degrading with which to dismiss their opponents, so that they do not have to discuss or think about policies and real issues. Howard Dean's yell, Kerry's windsurfing, Dukakis's tank helmet, Gore's droning voice, and now Warren's nickname are ways of immediately joining a two-minute ridicule that is emotionally comforting and short-circuits discussion and thought.
This seems not to work in the other direction. Trump gives too much material. Other conservative candidates often find that some position statement becomes iconic for them.
3
Part of me thinks that Senator Warren, and her advisors, are so steeped in the identity politics of the academy and the left, so socialized in this grievance culture, that they thought that by publishing the DNA results with a full video montage they were helping her candidacy. I don't think it was an error. It is a tactic, and it often works within certain constituencies, like the ones she has inhabited. I agree with this op/ed that it is seen as a mortifying failure outside of this constituency: a tired and tiring case of using any straw of disfavor, even 10 generations back, no matter how absurdly minute, for gain, legitimacy, currency and virtue signaling. The condemnation by the Cherokee community is the icing on the cake. For me, this shows a candidate as out of touch with half of America as Trump is with the other half.
11
Let me just add that I appreciate Mr. Douthat's devotion to actual facts despite his being a conservative in an era when most conservatives are totally willing to indulge in non-stop fantasy.
If only he could be realistic about abortion. I really don't believe that an early-term foetus is a "human being." BTW neither did Thomas of Aquinas, aka St. Thomas Aquinas.
The folks who do believe these entities are human beings are welcome to their belief. Which is what it is, a belief. When they claim to "know" that these are human beings the only possible source of their certainty is their religious beliefs.
So what they're trying to do is to use the long arm of the law to force all of us to live according to their religious beliefs.
That, to me, is un-American
2
This opinion piece turns a story about Ms.Warren's response to repeated ethnic/racial slurs and taunting into a story about Harvard's so-called affirmative action.
I applaud anyone for being proud of their heritage and ancestry; and I, too, would be extremely proud if I had native American ancestry. Any survivor of the white genocide perpetrated against native Americans deserves respect and awe, no matter the purity of their bloodline.
As for our idiot-in-chief's continued racial and ethnic insults against a woman, it is now so common as to just be considered a moniker by the likes of Mr. Douthat. His seeming advice to Democrat contenders is to get as down and dirty as the despicable piece of meat in the White House. I disagree. Getting as disgusting as Trump will not win over his minions. Getting non-voters to the polls is what will help.
4
If trump took a dna test the experts would be confounded by the results. His genes might contain a cross between a toad and a wild ape
1
@observerPlease do not insult toads.They are invaluable in my garden.They cannot tolerate any kind of chemical pesticide or herbicide.They eat slugs, and other bad guys.They are very valuable creatures.trump, well I need not say another thing.
Elizabeth Warren has much to offer, including her willingness to stand up to Trump's misogyny and racism.
This column mimics Trump in its attempt to take her down with insults and lies.
6
Pocahontas would have been a great President. Elizabeth Warren is no Pocahontas.
2
@HL
You forgot to add that you knew Pocahontas, but Lloyd Bentsen forgives you.
1
This column is the writer's rather mean-spirited opinion of Senator Warren. What I'd like from him is a critique of our POTUS -- Pinocchio of the United States -- his ideals, his beliefs, his career, his success, his failure, his morals, his actual worth as a human being...just curious...
4
A 2020 ticket composed of Warren and Mazie Hirono would sweep the Bay Area and Manhattan, to say nothing of the entire state of Massachusetts. Think big, Democrats.
1
Clinton style big.
Having helped to create this disgusting fiasco that is America today, the irony of what you, of all people, have say about Elizabeth Warren is risible, except that it us also utterly revolting.
7
Ancestry.com says that I have 51% white blood. And some white people tell me that I don't even look black. But that doesn't make me white. Or does it?
What I don't get is how someone can have on drop of no white blood and still be considered white. Well, in
American society, anyway.
1
I am sorry, but what did she do that was so wrong? Jeeze, does every move have to be calibrated by how it will be used by a blatant bully? It is that old " What will the neighbors say" thing I grew up with.
More people than not in this country know trump's game and I would wager few of them admire people who do not stand up to him.
She has a splendid record of working for actual citizens, not the rich. Contrast that with all the terrible things we already know and suspect about trump.
I personally want Bernie for President and Elizabeth or Beto for VP.
I like that she stands up to Trump and does not tiptoe around the school bully like the rest of the self conscious and wimpy Dems.
I hope He and the horses he rode in on, the slimy GOP guys, will be outed soon. Will they retire to South America do you think? The safe place, sort of, for old dead Nazis and many Southerners fleeing after the Civil war. They should feel right at home, and they can have Ted translate for them, oh but wait, he barely speaks Spanish.
6
Conservatives like Douthat are obviously frightened by Warren, so they produce screeds like this. What is the point? Why does Douthat think what Warren did in response to Trump's disgusting attacks is somehow bad? We now have a serial criminal in the White House, but Douthat apparently blames Warren for having or believing she has an ancestor six geneerations back who was Native American. Just think what Douthat would have said if one of his allies discovered that Warren had an American Indian in her ancestry that she didn't disclose.
1
Sen. Warren is putting to bed an issue that would be relevant only to Trump. Of course, he’ll come up with other moronic monicker like “horse face” (Stormy Daniels), etc. The fact is that the Senator’s legislative accomplishments are significant and can’t be dismissed.
3
Biden/Warren 2020.
1
@NemoToad More like "Warren 1/2020"
1
Funny how it's one of the Time's conservative columnists to claim that Warren loses. NOT.
6
I think these articles are a distraction from her real work. What are your thoughts on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accountable_Capitalism_Act
3
Most Americans have criminal ancestry. We usually describe Australia this way. But, it is equally true of the US. These criminals, “pioneers”, were most nearly all male. With a musket and sack of food, these new Americans headed West. And who do you think they fornicated with?
2
It amazes me that tribal native Americans are offended by Senator Warren’s DNA test but seem unaffected by the President referring to her as “Pocahontas” repeatedly as a racial slur.
142
@GG
Perhaps it's because Native Americans are such a natural and reliable Trump constituency? You think they're in the bag for Trump?
@GG
Yes, I've wondered that, too. The tribal aspect could explain it to some degree.
Those of us descended from the tribes that became European nations know little about one another. E.g., the Polish know little Welsh history. So if someone says Trump "welched" on his promise to give a million dollars to Warren's charity, few people take offense at the slur.
2
@GG I suppose you know better than they do, just like Elizabeth Warren knows she is qualified as an Indian while actual Indians object.
1
I don’t get how Ms Warren has lost anything here. I grew up with a pair of say anything identical twins. We all eventually learned that we could not imitate or otherwise get away with what they could. If Warren has the pluck for it, she should roll with it and lean way in on it.
3
The tests prove Warren has been 100% correct in her descriptions all these years. Good for her for taking the test when she did not have to.
I don't agree with her politics, but she has increased the positive things I think about her.
Only people who don't understand statistics, genealogy, Indian Tribal Sovereignty, and DNA will say that this is a "bad" thing. Those people would never support Warren anyway.
3
It is hard to believe that Harvard Law School actually said that this blonde, blue-eyed WASP was the school's "first person of color". How dare they? How offensive and how arrogant.
9
@Asher B
And how ludicrous. The insanity of identity politics grows steadily more suffocating.
Sen. Warren provided DNA proof of her stated ancestry, showing 45 to be a liar and a welcher on his bet...just as you would expect a fraud to behave. She has my vote.
5
For Douthat, Eliz Warren would lose no matter what 'game she played'.
7
Poor judgement on Warren's part has absolutely nothing to do with Donald Trump.
She made a really stupid decision to press the issue and even if Trump did not exist on Planet Earth her ill advised strategy would have fallen flat.
6
Warren has no shot at winning in 2020. In her own way, she is every bit as stiff and charmless as HRC. She will be tarred as a shrill man eater--ummm, red meat for Trump's knuckledragging base--those who want their women fit for Mayfield or Mayberry.
3
Of course nobody can win at Trump's game, except Trump, because he can move the goal posts, change the rules, deny, and walk off with his football whenever he wants to. That says a lot about him, none of it good.
That said, Warren should not have taken the bait - she should have said over and over when it came up that whether she has some Indian ancestry or not is irrelevant as she does not claim minority status or to have been discriminated against, has not used it to further her career, has not made an issue out of it in running for office, that what is important are the issues and policies, and the ability of the candidate to do the job.
The whole question of ethnicity is squishy - someone who appears to have SOME black blood is considered 'black', even if it's only 1/4 or 1/8: the question is appearance; on the other hand, I asked a grad school advisor once whether someone who has one Latino parent (of whatever race) or similarly a Latino grandparent on each side is considered Latino or 'white'? She said it's a tossup. Its importance is in receiving grant money that stipulates hiring a minority as a research assistant and the intent has more to do with income and a history of discrimination.
1
My issue with this is that we're now talking about her ancestry instead of Trump's lack of fitness for office, or her policy positions. It's not a good kick off to a campaign.
6
After reading a couple dozen comments it's clear you just can't win. None of this seems to matter, as we've all chosen our sides, all realized Trump's base will always support him, all realized that truth is not enough.
Only voting can help, but I'm afraid that while Trump's supporters have always been a minority of the population, a larger percentage are nevertheless more likely to vote.
I vehemently disagree that Warren's DNA test backfired. She was challenged by the pretender in the Oval Office, she met the challenge and has now challenged him to pony up with the $1 million check to charity (which he will never do). Her test results showed just about what her family believed, which was that there was a Native American at least four generations (or more) back in the line. I see the whole episode as a positive for Elizabeth Warren.
10
Of course, Douhat avoids any censure of Trump’s comments. Just goes to show how normal racism has become in the GOP. It’s as natural as oxygen for Republicans these day.
6
We have yet to find a Democrat equally adept at blooding the nose of Trump. Equally, we have not had a Democrat in ages that could match the Evilish, conniving, manipulative and dark genius of Mitch McConnell.. who has out played every single Democrat, bar none, over the last 30 years.
3
@George Jackson
Avenatti is well-equipped to take on Trump/McConnell.
I say do not let the Bully in Chief dictate the terms of political war. Throw it back in his face with a counterproposal- when YOU release your tax returns, I’ll think about releasing my DNA analysis.
The demise of Trump will be brought about by the middle class bailing on him, and women of all economic classes not from the vestiges of the old South. Play rope-a-dope with him, and he will bury himself without it looking like you’re fighting him in a mud pit.
1
While it is generally a good practice and a matter of moral high ground, not to engage a bully like Donald Trump, in retrospect however, look where it got us. He only becomes further enboldened by his verbal abuse of everyone , gaining more votes among his deplorables and inciting his followers into orgasmic screams. Now, chants to "lock her up" (for what? wasn't she investigated dozens of times, and no basis for an indictment?) directed at Hillary, have turned into "lock her up" directed at Diane Feinstein? (again, for what? where is the proof? where is the "innocent until provven guilty"?). I wonder what the outcome might have been if during his election campaign, as Donald began to hurl his trademark insults at everyone, e.g. "Little Marco", "Crooked Hillary", "Look at that face" referring to Carly Fiorina, someone had had the guts to get up and address him by the moniker "Demented Donald" or "Cadet Bone Spurrs" on a consistent and regular basis every time he began his verbal diarrhea during the debates. Time for Democrats and Independents to take off their white gloves and fight fire with fire!
4
Agreed, but Warren is not the right person to do it.
1
I don't get how this qualifies as "a cautionary tale." The one thing Trump's political style proves is how low Republicans themselves have set the bar for decency, truthfulness, and all- round fitness to hold public office. Trump succeeds because his base have such low standards. This is why he wins, but only according to the terms he and his supporters have set. Warren's supporters wont judge her on those terms and, if she has to occasionally play Trump's game, she will be ultimately judged by how she plays on terms that follow a higher standard.
In other words, it doesn't matter if Trump has a stupid response to Warren's DNA test video. He has a stupid response to anyone he perceives as an adversary. Just because his base whoops and hollers at his stupid response doesn't mean he's scored a real political hit.
7
She could turn this around and become the candidate who works with and for the Native American tribes.
1
@Other Annie
They don't need/want a white spokeswoman. A man on Rachel last night (forget his tribe) called DNA testing a "pseudo-science." She is not appealing to native Americans.
(Or to Americans in general, imho. With her or Bernie or Joe Biden or any other old candidate, the Democrats are sure to lose again. We need a young candidate, smart, knowledgeable, polite, attractive, unintimidated by the Squatter-in-Chief, etc. MICHAEL AVENATTI.)
2
Senator Warren never was, never will be, a nationally acceptable candidate for President since, as so aptly put by one commenter, the rest of the nation isn't "as educated" as the geniuses in Massachusetts. The hubris of 2016 continues to stare at itself in the mirror. Stay the course, yo.
11
when he goes low, you go high. Unfortunately, a political like Warren erred and looks as bad as Baby Trump. The key to Trump is to make fun of his antics, not fall in his Trumpian black hole
2
To heck with these comments about her "losing" anything to Trump. Trump is the all time greatest loser and a disgusting human being and Warren is not playing a game, she is who she is. Bad political move? Maybe, but not everything is about politics, sometimes dignity is more important and this is why Trump and the GOP fail.
6
And Obama should have ignored the birther lie?
8
She’s not trying to brandish it to claim any kind of minority status, but to show what a liar Trump is when he pivots away. I see nothing wrong with her actions.
5
My takeaway is that Trump welches on his bets, right to your face.
4
@Another2cents
Please don't insult the Welsh with that outdated slur.
My takeaway from this column is that Ross is reminding everyone he is a CONSERVATIVE writer for the New York Times. As a result to maintain his conservative bona fides, he must criticize quickly conspicuous liberal public figures.
4
First of all, to Elizabeth: don't feed the troll. You'll never win.
Secondly, to my fellow Democrats: if we nominate this woman, it is a 100% guarantee of 4 more years of Donald Trump.
14
A crude woefully ignorant hate filled man, a bully, using elementary school playground vicious little kid style insults, is taken seriously in politics. He has NYT writers and a US Senator fully engaged over a nickname that a 10 year old might use, like Four Eyes or Fatty, lowering the standard of discourse even further. Ann Coulter, Sarah Palin, Donald Trump level intellect taking over New York and Washington. Just a doggone shame.
"Sticks and stones will break my bones, but names will never hurt me." Remember that, we were all kids? Only the Trump base still acts like foul mouthed mean little children. "Lock her up", indeed.
1
Hey Ross,
In my books she won. She proved trump is a liar...of course everyone knows that anyway. She proved she has Native American ancestry. I would gladly vote for her and against trump in 2020. My only regret would be losing her as a MA senator. She's done a great job fur us in the Senate
16
Trump ended up proposing to play doctor on a woman Senator. How could he look any lower than that? Unless he suggests that he would have killed that Saudi journalist himself.
This was well-played by Warren. This pointed out that Trump is a liar who never fulfulls his deals unless it is to cover something up, His misogynistic comeback only covers him in shame before decent men.
Because there is no one worse than Trump himself you can't really insult him. The worst insult in the world is to compare someone to Donald Trump. So the way to make the public revile him is to goad him into being himself. She expertly did that.
9
So... if one learns he is related to George Washington, is he any less related because several generations have passed?
This was a reprise of Donald's Birther escapade. Donald is chock full of racist tendencies of which this is but one.
Warren still has credibility. Donald does not.
5
Much ado about nothing. Obama released his birth certificate.
Why don't you write a column about how everyone responds to him, but he won't release his tax returns, so that we can see how he bilks the American people?
6
Unhappily, you are right. As one pundit said, don’t feed the troll. Now nobody is saying anything about her views on health care, taxes, financial regulation, workers’ rights or any of the other things that really matter. They’re only interested in this stupid Native American issue. Hopefully this will pass but it’s obviously a tactical blunder.
3
I totally disagree with the comments by Ross Douthat and believe Elizabeth Warren could not have gone wrong in her decisions.
When (not if) Trump should bring this up Ms Warren should simply say:
-"Cadet bone spur is a lire otherwise he would make good on his statement to pay $1,000,000 if proof were presented regarding my Native American lineage". Then hold up a tablet with the video of Dfrump making that statement.
-"Cadet bone spur by using the name Pocahontas you insult most Native Americans, why don't you just shove your insults where the sun does not shine and lets debate what most Americans what to hear about; the real issues facing our country." Ms Warren needs to punch Dfrump in the snout once and for all.
1
What appalls, shocks, and continually amazes me is how much time is spent discussing this matter when IT DOESN'T MATTER. Who cares? You either like what Warren stands for and what she's done, or you don't.
This is just another layer in the Trump smokescreen, and sadly, so many folks get caught up in insignificant minutia.
C'mon, America! Smartn up!
7
What this proves is that she has no more native American ancestry than the average white American. Trump challenged her to "take the test and it shows you’re an Indian." This hardly proves that she is an "Indian". What it proves as she as not-"Indian" as any other white person in America.
8
Ross, let's try a thought experiment. Question: Donald Trump lies 4,000+ times and he is the winner vs. someone who perhaps stretched her information, so she's the loser. If this is true, do you know why?
Astoundingly, the answer is...get this...humility. You see, Trump is the president and 60+ million people voted for him, so out of the respect for his position and the voters, and for the fact that no human being should be arrogant to judge others, he gets a pass.
See, the common narrative is "Donald Trump is a liar," and so he gets a pass on this fact, because it's already baked in the cake. But if anyone else in the political world utters one statement that is POSSIBLY a stretch, that person has their integrity scorched because their exaggeration is not already baked in the cake. That person becomes a disgusting liar.
This is the state of the mentality of the world we live in. A lying, phony, tax-cheating braggart gets a pass because, somehow, in some strange way, we have to accept "he's doing his best...and the people voted for him." Very sick. Very sad.
3
Along with Trump, the media is demeaning our democracy, magnifying daily personal drama, hostility, conflict and intrigue, while confusion and polarization reign on crucial issues.
The news is imitating daytime TV and Reality TV----which are manipulative, cynical and distorts reality for the public.
The media makes big profits from our warped politics as Trump's taunts, insults and distortions just give them more stuff.
When do Times columnists or TV pundits ever delve into the real policies Warren is promoting, and explain the pros and cons? I haven’t seen it. That would be fulfilling the media's duty in a democracy.
The media proclaims its 1st amendment protection against govt censorship---but they're not living up to their duty to inform voters on issues affecting all our lives. Result is widespread voter manipulation and confusion. The election proved that.
Related --- the media makes huge profits from high cost ads that our campaign megadonors pay for and which manipulate voters. This keeps news coverage within certain limits, per our warped politics. The public is ill informed.
Is this some kind of ‘collusion’? Trump and media damage our democracy.
8
Once again, her holiness Ross finds a way to go against a good person. Backhanded?
I would be happy if your strategy advice came after a long, incisive disection and condemnation of the lies, ad hominem attacks and character assasination perpetrated by Drumph and his hordes of cowardly supporters. Use some of that wit and intelligence to talk about the awful president and not the heroic efforts, however, miscalculated, of those who are trying to save our country. Bah.
8
I would be pretty happy when the dust settles if Elizabeth Warren or a number of the other Democratic candidates emerged as the victor over President Trump . However for all the mockery of others by the President,and the steady echo of jokes and ridicule in response by opponents,Trump has continuously driven the news narrative. Derided by one side and beloved by his supporters, he is the sky,the ocean and the moon of American politics.
The choice is up to the citizenry-continue or cancel this 24 hour show .
3
What Trump has done is not “nicknaming.” That is what parents, siblings, and friends do in a loving, if sarcastic, way. No. What he does is name-shaming and it is never, ever done in any way other than as a scornful insult.
8
Trump only recognizes two things: winning vs losing and strength vs weakness. He is a brilliant bully. His technique is not simple, but should be obvious by now. Pick a weakness in your opponent, label it, and drill down on it. Little Mario or Pocahontas. If you answer him he has won!
The only answer is to turn the spotlight on to his weakness. If we were as good at branding as he is we would have a clever moniker for the bankruptcies, or Daddy's financial help, or his subservience to Putin. Come on Democrats, get creative.
2
If only late might comics and the creative talent of Hollywood would take up this nicknaming challenge.
Senator Warren has never displayed a shred of executive leadership, any national security expertise, or the ability to motivate centrist voters. If she is "the front runner", the Democratic party is in deep trouble.
17
According to an NIH study 0.5% of the world population, from Pacific to the Caspian sea has y chromosomal lineage. By this definition, they all can go to Mongolia and claim to be Mongols and descendents of great khans .
5
She called his bluff. And had fun doing it. Who wouldn’t admire that?
15
1. Fundamentally, the problem (to the extent that there is a problem) is Harvard's, not Warren's.
2. It is astonishing to see so many declarations that this irrelevance has doomed Warren's campaign. There appears to be an army of alleged Democrats who derive joy from banishing (in their own minds) fellow party members from the obviously insufficiently exclusive club. Any perceived misstep by a candidate results in a deluge of obituaries by hopeless believers in perfection.
3. Warren did make the mistake of seeking a way to shut Trump up about this matter. You can't shut Trump up, especially when he has adopted an offensive nickname for you. Introducing facts supporting your argument to the exchange just widens his smile.
Warren is a smart woman, and I suspect she now recognizes that what's required is a toughening of her hide and good earplugs.
4. The primary reason this situation escaped Warren's control almost immediately was that the Cherokee Nation decided to respond to it with an epic hissy fit. They tried to sacrifice Warren on the altar of their "identity". From past experience, I gather that citizens of the Cherokee Nation tend to vote for Democrats, so one might have expected them to see this as a potential stomping ground for righties and try to prevent that by zipping it. (I'm probably being unfair to their position, but honestly I do not understand their objections to Warren's action at all).
5. Republicans stick together. Dems devour their young.
4
Is NYT really still trying to pretend that the Democrats are going to win the House in November? It's a lot less likely than you think. Democrats are losing in every single matchup across the entire country. Just like 2016, Republicans are fighting, spinning, distorting the truth at every opportunity, and Democrats are just coasting on donations and hoping the ten people left in America who aren't furious about something are going to vote for normalcy. November will be the end of the Democratic Party.
7
Douthat is playing Trump's game by setting up a strawman argument. Senator Warren never claimed minority status. She claimed, apparently accurately, that she had a great- great-great grandmother who was part Native American. I suppose next, Ross, you'll pretend Trump really said he'd pay up only if she won the 2020 nomination.
3
@Maureen Hawkins Long before she ran for office, Elizabeth Warren claimed minority status. She claimed Native American status as an attorney when she submitted her listing in a registry of attorneys.
When she was hired at Harvard, she claimed minority status. Harvard used her to claim to identify her as a 'woman of color'. Harvard went on to identify her on their Affirmative Action report as a Native American.
Warren made this bed.......she owns the problem.
1
Douthat and others, including squeamish liberal elites, are overthinking the issue. They fail to consider what any average American who watches too many commercials on TV or listens to their aunts could tell them: Americans are very emotionally invested in genealogical tests and the ultimately meaningless crumbs of ancestral identity to which they give credence. Don't try arguing with them. Don't dispute the meaning or reliability of the "science." You won't get fed the good pieces at Thanksgiving. At this point in our national obsession with identity, even whites don't want to be just white any more. Any flavoring or shading will do the trick. With this test, for those vast numbers of identity-craven Americans, Warren has disposed of this question in the affirmative and, more importantly, defended the rights of families and family mythologists everywhere against a rich, rude, racist bore. Trump's "Pocahontas" taunt is never going to ring the same again. A bully who has to explicate his name-calling with a disquisition on an individual's relative share of responsibility for institutional use of a dot of demographic data is a bully who has lost it.
2
Sad that the disqualifier here is a gaffe that few would find consequential when compared against Warren's substantial record of work and service, except for the President's and the press' zeal in pointing out how disastrous this was for her. Kind of reminds me of the weight given to the primal scream that Howard Dean let out during his campaign. Neither of these instances should have taken on such import, especially when compared with Trump's criminal cohorts, imbecilic utterances and poor judgement. Looking at the big picture, the bigger problem is in the minds of the GOP and many journalists.
3
A deep dive into my genetics shows that I'm more Neanderthal than most people. (Truth.) Don't I get a college break? ... Centrists do not care for Warren, as unlikable to many as Hillary and even further left. If she's the pick, Trump will triumph.
11
The most jarring moment of this is trump claiming he has $1million against her claim. What a joke. I'd rather have him release his tax returns so we can see how much of that "fortune" has been scooped up by putin!
3
So Elizabeth Warren calls Trumps bluff, proves she has Native American heritage to the world beyond a doubt, and proves him a boastful, bullying liar by confronting him about the Million Dollar Donation he promised in the event that she took a DNA test. It sounds like she in winning. Unless Douthat is using the Trump/Orwellian form of the word , which means the opposite of what it says. Hard to tell, but some Trump supporters will obviously be runners up for future Nobel, for twisting logic into the most complex pretzels shapes ever seen.
4
Why does it not surprise me that the oligarchy and their minions attack someone who is a proven champion of the people?
If you can't attack her impeccable credentials, her obvious servitude to the working class, then lie, go low, then attack her for her response to her attacks because you have absolutely nothing you can criticize her for her amazing work and dedication to working Americans.
Elizabeth Warren is the real deal and this fear from the corporate class only confirms it.
7
The only way to deal with a bully, which Trump clearly is, is to bully back. The against should find a name for him that sticks. I'm trying to come up with one, but I think there are smart people who must find something. His hair and orange face are good for cartoons, but there has to be something to call him ... I'm racking my brains. Taxfree Trump. Trump'o Bully. Not right, I know. The only way is to treat a bully is to stand up to him, not to treat him like a decent person. He's like the brat to teases na na na na na. It's horrible that so many people applaud his behavior. Do we have half a nation of bullies?
1
Deadbeat Donnie
Well, at least Warren can say she did not lie. Can Trump or many of his swamp mates claim they do not lie?
8
Barack Obama's response to Donald Trump's birther inventions was perfect, and should be a model to all for inspiration. First take it like an adult, show you are solid, and let the child dig his hole deeper. Then choose your moment, and in front of the whole school, when he is cornered, slap him like he deserves. Not for revenge, not because you were affected and you have grudge, but simply because it is your duty as an adult and the principal.
What a president he was!
3
HOW DID IGNORING SWIFT BOAT CHARGES WORK OUT FOR JOHN KEERY, ROSS? The last thing we need is another weak candidate who fails to stand up when attacked. We need a fighter for a change. I am sick and tired of Democrats bringing a nail clipper to a gun fight. And for all those people who think we need a middle of the road candidate in 2020, we have been playing that game for 40 years now, and it has not worked out. Republicans care only to excite their base, even though they are a minority, and won full control. Democrats keep trying to play the middle, trying to somehow bring us all together. NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN. How did that work out for us with Obama, who clearly ran a centrist administration? About time Democrats provided an opposing narrative, instead of playing the middle. We are a majority party with the truth and reason on our side. About time we played that hand!
9
Come on, Ross, you can do better than this. Trump can say anything he wants, but Warren needs to be more careful about her utterances? Please! Virtually anyone the Democrats roll out will be more impressive than the clown show the GOP has gleefully mounted for the past 2 years, a demeaning chapter in our nation's history. The Republicans have demonstrated they can't govern their way out of a paper bag, they are ready to auction the nation off to the highest bidder, they have no conception whatsoever of fiscal responsibility, science, longterm planning, or foreign policy. Honestly, a tin can should be able to defeat Trump, or whomever the GOP elects to run.
Remember how most of the nation felt about Carter in the late summer/early fall preceding Reagan's landslide election? People were fed up with his presentation. Nobody actually thought much of Reagan at the time. I'd say the temperature feels eerily familiar. If neither Trump nor the GOP can sense that, they deserve what appears to be coming their way. I think we're done with the clown show.
2
I can already hear the chants at the Trump rallies -
"Poc - A - Hon - Tas" - just 1 short syllable longer than "Lock her up". The goons and the loons would have a field day with that. It is a strange situation when Trump can make scores of blunders and gaffs and still survive and his opponents make 1 and they're down for the count.
Bring on Tammy Duckworth. I think she could easily handle Trump and his mouth.
2
If Elizabeth Warren is the best the Democratic party can come up with for 2020, prepare yourself for four more years of Bozo the president. She is one of the worst public speakers I've ever seen on a national stage and she's got some horrible ideas. I'll vote for anyone who eventually gets selected for the Democratic ticket but many people will not vote for Warren and the likelihood of any 2016 Trump voters flipping for Elizabeth Warren as a candidate is about as close to zero as you can get.
17
@matthew.fiori
Being a bad public speaker should not be a reason to
reject her as a candidate for office.
Reagan was a great public speaker.
They called him the great communicator.
That did not qualify him for office just like Elizabeth's lack of that skill should disqualify her.
@matthew.fiori
Any concrete example of those "horrible ideas"?
@matthew.fiori. Jesus hast thrown his hat in the ring. Nor the pope. Warren is plenty good.
Let's give Ms. Warren a break and a pass. Her fallacious claim of being a Native American is no more ill-advised and outrageously false than Hillary's claim of dodging bullets in Bosnia, Bill's claim he "did not have sex with that woman," or one current U.S. senator's claim of military service in Vietnam when he only did reserve duty stateside. As any of them can attest, truth is a relative and very flexible concept.
9
@Delmo So you think truth is a 'relative and very flexible concept'?
Warren as Native American? Lie.
HRC dodging bullets in Bosnia? Lie.
WJC "did not have sex with that woman"? Lie.
Blumenthal "my military service in Vietnam"? Lie.
Nope.......not relative and not flexible.
1
She had the guts to take up the challenge and prove that she was telling the truth. In the long run, that will prove to have been a wise decision. There is no longer any question of her having lied about it, and although this may mean nothing to her detractors, it will mean something to some of those on the fence.
3
Yes, you should be very afraid, Douthat - it is true that Warren and our fellow liberal democrats are coming for you and your personal society based on a religion that YOU choose for the rest of us..Your views are going to be DOA very very soon. You can try to mock and distort reality, but those days are over. We have seen the enemy, and it is you and your republicans.
3
Would have's and could have's are irrelevant now. As Willie Nelson's song puts it, "There's nothing I can do about it now." No matter what Warren does, Trump will continue to attack her with taunts beneath the dignity of the Presidency because that's what his lemmings love and because she's a woman, which his insecure whites, male or female, love. There's no way Warren will win if she runs because white males expect women to be subservient.
1
@justthefactsma'am
"White males expect women to be subservient"??
Then explain these powerful women to me, please:
Nikki Haley - governor and ambassador
Kelly Ayotte - AG and senator
Sarah Palin - governor and VP candidate
Condoleezza Rice - National Security Adviser, Sec of State
Cathy McMorris Rodgers -
Chair of the House Republican Congress
Susan Collins - senator Maine
Susana Martinez - governor N. Mexico
Elaine Chao - Secretary of Labor
Liz Cheney - Deputy Sec State
Mary Fallin - Governor
Jan Brewer - Governor
Maria Cino - Deputy Chair of the RNC
Pam Bondi - Florida A G
Elizabeth Dole - Senator and Sec. of Transportation
There are many, many more - subservient NOT.
1
Fiasco? Should she have stayed above the fray like John Kerry did when GOP liars whipped up a fake controversy that challenged war hero Kerry in his race against draft dodger W. History shows us that if you let the Republicans attack unanswered you wind up with someone like Trump as president.
She said her family lore was there were Native American ancestors. Trump said no and mocked her. She answered back with facts.
I thought the move, the roll-out, the inclusion of her Republican middle-American brothers in a fantastic video, was brilliant. Trump can call a public figure "horse-face", but any Democrat is subjected to abusive criticism the they're doing good things for America.
5
Carlos Bustamante, an internationally recognized expert in human genomics, provided the analysis of Elizabeth Warren's DNA sequence data. It concluded that she does indeed have native American ancestry, proving that Trump's attacks on her are scurrilous as most of his attacks on people are.
I don't see the problem here.
This column is typical of Russ Douthat. It begins with an unproven assumption and proceeds to use that assumption to make an artificial argument in line with his political agenda. Here he asserts, without proof, that this was a fiasco for Elizabeth Warren (it wasn't) and then uses this to argue that she is doomed politically (she isn't).
The fact is that Elizabeth Warren terrifies conservatives. Her personal history and she is the most effective communicator to the middle class of progressive ideas within the Democratic party. And she won't back down and she won't give up and she is not corrupt.
If this is the best the conservatives can do to smear her, well, my money's on Elizabeth Warren.
4
@voreason
You don't realize that with the population that has a similar history it is less common to have no Indian blood
than what she had.
She is no more Indian than those people are.
2
Great column. Spot on.
Played right into his hands.
Hopefully at least one progressive will change the game instead of playing his game.
We need universal healthcare and moral leadership.
It’ll never happen if Democrats try to out-brawl a mud wrestler.
Let Mueller do his work, take back the house, develop a better message that’ll win over the 15 percent in the middle.
5
You want to lose in 2020 then nominate Warren and continue on the path that the Labour Party in Britain has already forged.
The last Massachusetts liberal to win the WH was Kennedy.
Good luck.
8
She's fine. She established that she was right, Trump was wrong, and forced him to renege on his "bet". Just an initial hurdle to get out of the way ASAP. Having Native Americans slightly, temporarily annoyed with her will cost about nothing--they're not going to turn in Trumpets overnight. it might even help with (a few) red state white men.
We won't remember this a week from now, but EW will be clear of it and rolling.
Trump wins this round. We should be talking about consumer protections, fair tax laws, saving and expanding the social safety nets, student debt and affordable education, living wages, labor protections, the EPA, FEMA, etc, etc, etc. All Warren did was retell family lore. By trying to get scientific she walked straight into Trump's trap. Whoever advised this should indeed be fired. If it was her own idea, someone please get her better advise. While Douthat is agonizing over Warren's DNA test Ryan and McConnell and the most extreme Republican party in our history is overthrowing the government for the people and bringing in the government for the rich. The most important election in my 70 years of life is upon us and this is what Douthat and the NYT feels is of utmost importance? Unbelievable. It's 2018 and it is time to vote. NOW.
1
Elizabeth Warren defended the oral history handed down by her ancestors. She now has scientific evidence of that oral tradition.
So, it's Donald Trump's turn. Show us the evidence that your claimed wealth is true, honest, and not compromised with conflicts of interest and tax evasions. Release your tax returns from 2007 through 2017.
4
I think Senator Warren did well with this. It puts the question of whether she has any Native American ancestry to rest (she does) and puts the ball squarely in Trump's court. He promised a million dollar donation to charity if she took a DNA test and it revealed any Native American ancestry. Pay up, Donald!
4
All Ross’ column proves is how even reasonable and enlightened Republicans have deep-seated double standards for women in power.
3
Fiasco? Really? In the context of the never-ending freak show that is the Trump presidency, her well-intentioned misstep is a doctor's thesis in correctness. It may prove in time to add to her case if she declares herself a candidate for president. Mr. Douthat, you'd do well to go back to Trump bashing. He's much more deserving, as you know.
@William Schindler
Schindler's listing to the right.
Lizzy and Hill's recent outbursts are nothing less than a massive gift to the Repubicans. Both of these harpies must immediately stifle themselves - for good (in both senses of the word).
1
It's Ross Douthat who is crowding in to play Trump's game. He's claiming winners/losers.
The truth is, to any honest person, that we are all losers in the US for the tragedy of Trump. Why give that snake breathing room by chalking up 'wins' in his schoolyard spitting matches? Go into the NY streets and you'll find hundreds of thousands of glib people, the likes of which taught Trump that offensiveness can look good to those who do not expect anything uncivil.
5
@Feldman Here's some of the icing on that cake (referring to the NY glib streetmen, T's 'school'):
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/16/nyregion/proud-boys-gavin-mcinnes.html
This may well be the dumbest article I've ever read in the Times. Elizabeth Warren provided scientific proof to back up what she's been saying and somehow that's wrong. Compare that with a president who doesn't care one iota about the truth and would never submit to any test, scientific, legal, moral, etc., which might reveal an actual truth. (And even if he did he would just deny the results.) You can only fight lies with the truth. And I'm sorry if that battle gets a little too messy for you; it's most definitely a battle worth fighting. I applaud Elizabeth Warren.
4
It's news to me that Warren's move was inept; to me it looked brilliant, and well timed.
2
Or it could simply be "I am releasing documents related to anything "me" ". Now i dare you to "release your tax returns", not that the evader-in-chief is ever likely to bite that bait.
1
Not my vote. Trust her about as far as I could spit...
3
Mr. Douthat, The Iraq War was a fiasco. This is a hiccup.
3
Avenatti swung and hit Trump hard in the personal lawyerplexus. That could still cause Trump immense difficulty from the fall out. The bigger they are, the harder they fall.
Congrats on giving the Hillary treatment to another women of the same generation. Why does the corporate media always hold up women as failing if they slip or exaggerate the slightest while gross corruption goes on being "accepted". Is it a New York thing?
Yes when I read the result of her DNA tests I posted on Facebook that she was toast. Thank heaven it is more than a year in front of the actual presidential election and the Dems can find someone else...I have a lurking thought that she would not have been nominated anyway for a lot of other reasons not the least of which was the showing Hillary made.
4
I like Elizabeth Warren and would be happy to see her become President of the USA. As a liberal Democrat, however, I hope to God she is not our candidate. She will lose to Donald Trump. She is so easily caricatured as the epitome of liberal elitism that she will get destroyed in the South and MidWest. We need to nominate someone like Joe Biden, Sherrod Brown, etc.
5
Kamala Harris, whose minority credentials are indisputable, and not Elizabeth Warren is the real Democratic front runner.
3
Although I already have a comment citing Masha Gessen's srong criticism of Elizabeth Warren's current use of genetic information (The New Yorker 10/11) I also want to express my general agreement with most of what Douthat writes here. I always thought Warren made a mistake now long ago and as Douthat says, should have left well enough or bad enough alone.
Even now I think she should not have dragged Trump into the story. Better to have said something like "Every since I first spoke about my family having a story in which the family was believed to have a Native American in the famijy's lines of descent, I have always wondered if genome analysis could support or disprove this belief. Now I have done that.
I guess that is what the video tries to do.
As for Trump, he has for years claimed that he is smart because of first, some Swedish genes and later German not Swedish. All those statements are just dumb.
But we already knew that about our President.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
1
Dear fellow white people,
In the name of all that is holy, can we please just keep our entitled hands off of identities that aren't ours? The legacy of whiteness, which was created to dominate and dehumanize non-white people and cultures, is one that we must work hard to undo. Waving around genetic tests to "demonstrate" non-white ancestry when we clearly have unfairly benefited from our white skin is wrong in so many ways! First, it presents some sort of absurd blood quantum measure as the "proof" of belonging to an identity. Second, it makes a mockery of those (in this case, American Indians) who have suffered at the hands of the myth of white supremacy and further victimizes them by elevating a definition of American Indian heritage not their own. And lastly, this isn't the way to fight racists like Donald Trump. This was an education moment, where leaders like Elizabeth Warren should have been teaching people about cultural appropriation, racist language from Donald Trump, and what it means to really listen to American Indians, and to HEAR them. Instead, we get wishy-washy white liberal casual racism and the gleeful tittering of white conservatives as a left politician steps right into it.
4
@Doug "legacy of whiteness, which was created to dominate and dehumanize non-white people and cultures"??????
White skin is not a benefit if you wish to live in a country where the non-white people control the land and the culture.
1
It is 100% wrong that your party leader has used racist taunts. The correct response is to shut it down as inappropriate, disrespectful, baseless bullying and hate.
To be clear, it's the responsibility of anyone and everyone listening to call it out and shut it down as unacceptable. It's his own responsibility to own up to his wrongdoings and apologize.
It's not on her, or Obama, or all Mexicans, or all of Islam, or any of this racist conspiracy theorist's targets to engage. But it's very reasonable that they would want to stand up for themselves.
To blame someone for standing up to a divisive liar and bully with a reasoned, mature response is just stunning.
4
Warren's misstep is worth a headshake, worth maybe questioning a person's judgement about tone just a little bit. It was a lot like a lot of things Hillary did, honestly. But it wasn't disqualifying. That said, lots of independents and people on the left will think twice about her because of this.
What's amazing is despite ALL of the completely disqualifying things Trump has said and done, 80-something percent of Republicans still support him. Their support seems to grow the nastier the man gets. I just don't get it.
Warren stated on The Lawrence O'Donnell show that she wasn't wealthy. Surprise - she is, by definition, a One Percenters, and well into that range.
“I realize there are some wealthy individuals – I’m not one of them, but some wealthy individuals who have a lot of stock portfolios" she told him.
But the Personal Financial Disclosure form she filed to run for Senate shows that she's worth as much as $14.5 million. She earned more than $429,000 from Harvard in 2010 alone for a total of about $700,000 total income. She lives in a house worth $5 million. She also has a portfolio of investments in stocks and bonds worth as as much as $8 million, according to the form, which lists value ranges for each investment. The bulk of it is in funds managed by TIAA-CREF.
This bothers me more than her claim to be Native American. Don't pretend to be middle class when you live in a house with a tax value of $5 million, easy to check for anyone. Don't pretend to be just another working class stiff trying to get by on $80K or less when you are paid $430K for teaching one or two classes per week. Warren was paid $429,981 as a Harvard law professor from 2010 to 2011,” the AP reported in 2012, and “got nearly $134,000 in consulting fees on legal cases in 2010.” In 2014, FrontPageMag noted “Harvard Law paid Warren $350,000 to teach a single course.”
Don't speak out against the high cost of college tuition when you're part of the problem of the high cost of college.
13
Why isn't the bully's behavior the problem?
3
@Barbara
Because Warren's claims pre-date Trump's pResidency by decades?
2
Seems Mr. Douthat's calculus is all about how Ms. Warren's response to grotesque and racist insults from a man who somehow became a minority President of the US, somehow failed as a political chess move. I watched the video of her dialogue with the geneticist, and it seems perfectly clear that she was more interested in the linkage between her family's stories and the DNA evidence of their veracity. The fact is that she didn't claim any special status as somehow being made into an indigenous American as a consequence of this interesting artifact of her family history. Her point was a simple calling of Trump's arrogant bluff, let the rich man keep his promise, the loud mouth who offered a million dollars if she could prove her family's claim to a native ancestor. I've been listening to the interviews with representatives of the Native community who remind us that a few drops of Indian blood don't make anyone a member of any tribe. Can't argue with that. But Warren wasn't claiming to be a Cherokee tribeswoman. She was simply answering in the best way possible an insult to her person, her family and to native Americans. Why can't that be enough? The facts of family memory and genetic science are where the truth lies. Frankly, I think Ms. Warren has done us all a service by conducting the argument on that level, especially with this president with his anti-science agenda.
1
Sen Warren as front runner is wishful far-to-the-left liberal thinking. So the Times will defiantly treat here as such until a primary proves otherwise. A much better bet is anybody but Sen Warren. And a much nominee.
8
This whole episode does not reflect well on Senator Warren.
A far better strategy would be to ignore Trump’s jabs and attack the failure of his Presidency. Trump will is running to be one of our worst Presidents. Giving him a shiny object to attack only diverts attention from his ineffectiveness.
1
Stop already, Ross. She was validating a personal family history and making a calculated political move to counter Trump’s claim that she was afraid to take a DNA test. That nonsense is now politically neutralized, not that Trump will shut his moth.
1
The only important question is who can defeat this shameless, thieving, erratic President? Senator Warren is a great senator but she can’t beat Trump in the general, she’s not personable enough to undecideds and is vilified by finance sector democrats. Don’t call me sexist, I think plenty of women could, but not Elizabeth.
2
Warren, Harris, Booker—picking any of those senators would all but guarantee President Trump's reëlection.
The Republicans would eat Kamala Harris alive by pointing out that as San Francisco's district attorney she refused to seek the death penalty for an illegal alien who'd already been convicted of violent crimes but somehow was allowed to stay in the U.S., and then took advantage of it by slaughtering an entire family who were in the wrong place at the wrong time, mistaking them for rival gang members.
Cory Booker may have been a decent mayor of Newark, N.J., but as a senator he's a grandstanding windbag, the kind of politician who discredits politics. People will see him as a phony.
I saw former Maryland Governor Martin O'Malley best Tucker Carlson some months on Carlson's show. He was calm and unflappable. I'd nominate him and Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper for the Democratic ticket. They could win.
5
Why is Warren permanently tainted because of this? Ridiculous. Look at all the misconduct surrounding Trump, his family, his advisors which had, and still has, no impact on his political viability. He repeatedly defied convention by continuing on when others would have slunked away to their hidy hole. Did Warren unnecessarily get into the weeds? Probably. The fact that people are looking at this as some sort of fatal faux pas is only because Trump spins it that way. The DNA results are real, she is not claiming, and has nevered, tribal status. But she has proven that she did not fabricate her native american ancestry. This is a tempest in a teapot.
3
Wow, Mr. Douthat. You’ve just explained how much higher the bar really is for decent people, especially women, to participate in the political freak show now characterized by trump. Did Elizabeth Warren lie? No. Is she a sex offender? No. Was she a black-out teenage drunk? No. A tax-fraud trust fund baby? No. Has her work as a legislator and educator improved peoples’ lives? Yes. Her offense? She honestly tried to address a dishonest, vulgar man’s taunts about her family background with a DNA test that proved her right – and you find something wrong with that because you think it’s unbecoming for Ms. Warren, to counter the pig by pointing out the pig’s lies? You say she can’t handle the freak show? She’s way above it. Whose freak show is this anyway? Let me tell you. It’s trump’s and it’s yours, and it’s all about the self-satisfied gloating of go-along political pundits piling on with cheap shots at an easy target set up by the freak in chief himself.
5
@Angela Zimm
This is the best response I've read to this terribly wrong-headed article. I couldn't agree more! Thanks Angela!
4
Why are we not taking about Trump's racism?
3
@becky Because Trump isn't racist. He does recognize color - but it's green - the color of money.
1
Oh who cares?! Ross, you don't get it. This is actually something that Trump supporters and Warren supporters agree on (though they don't spend enough time together to realize it). The political spin networks trying to tie people up in a knot over some trivial matter has got to stop. Americans of all political opinions are so tired of this.
1
If the Senator is 1/64 Native American, that means that the Native American genes entered her ancestry in the mid-1700s. While the family lore is that the Cherokee genes entered her line in Oklahoma, the Cherokee were still in north Georgia at that time. Possible, if she has eighteenth century Georgia ancestors. If she is 1/1,024 Native American, that means that the Native American genes entered her ancestry in the early 1600s. That seems much less likely. Perhaps the relevant genes were carried out of Africa millennia ago, part of the general gene pool of all Europeans.
5
The right is just a gang of belligerent loudmouths. Whatever pretense they had to intellectual acuity or positions based on ideas has been dead for years. Sad.
8
"... was to simply express mild regret for letting her enthusiasm for family lore carry her away into identifying as someone who might possibly receive affirmative-action consideration, apologize to Cherokee groups for any offense, and literally never speak of the matter again."
Except that no matter how she responded the Republican smear machine would never let it go. Even now there many comments stating, incorrectly, the Warren purposely "checked the box" as a Native American to gain advantage. An untruth that fits nicely with conservative apoplexy over affirmative action.
The RNC has unleashed the Republican smear machine against Senator Warren and it will continue unabated until they have created a public meme preventing her from ever holding higher public office. It is the politics of personal destruction they do so well. See for example - Swift Boating. See also, the recent Atlantic article on how Gary Hart was set up and destroyed by Lee Atwater.
This issue about Warren's Native American claims pre-dates Trump by several years. It is a fact that Warren listed herself as Native American on Harvard documents and Harvard made hay of having Native American law school staff. It is true that Warren made causal references to herself as Cherokee. Warren tried to back pedal with Me Maw - Pa Paw stories and she stop telling that whopper about her parents being half breeds and having to cross state lines. The DNA test was a mistake, clearly its shows she is not Native American.
But her tactics are wrong, She should have embraced it. " I can't wait to scalp Trump in 2020" "We are going to do to Trump what we did with general Custer" "I am on the war path now"
But now she just looks like another Preference Queen working the angles and being indignant when caught out.
7
In my previous comment, I meant to write "Her personal history is phenomenal and ..."
2020 Job Ad: President of the United States. Honest,caring, intelligent people NEED NOT apply. The successful candidate will be a sociopath who has no regard for humanity.
1
Well, Elizabeth Warren did act kind of foolishly, and this business probably torpedoes her possible candidacy for President.
It must have been real challenge for Douthat to spin an entire column out of what I just stated in one sentence. However, I suspect it helped him avoid an even more difficult challenge:
Developing a conservative Christian apologia for Trump’s defense of the House of Saud in the wake of a disgusting torture murder.
3
My father is Mexican (as in born-and-lives in Mexico) and my mother is American of Northern European extract. I never had my father in my life and grew up as regular "white kid". When it came time to apply for college, I indicated that I was of Mexican extract. At that point the colleges started contacting me with invitations to apply given my "heritage". I decided to drop the Mexican ID since it made me feel I would living a lie to pretend that I was culturally and ethnically Latino. My "Latinoness" goes only as far as my DNA. Seeing Elizabethe Warren come out with this just made me cringe.
As for the politics of it, Just think that if John Kerry had run his presidential campaign without trying to bring much attention to his military heroism (remember the salute at the Democratic Convention?) he may have beaten Bush. Just like Warren, it's so cringe worthy. Plus, it incentivizes the opposition to put a target on your back; which Kerry knows all too well!
7
It should be pointed out that the Cherokee Nation isn’t helping here, being “offended” by someone who actually does have Native American DNA in her bloodline. They could have instead wholly embraced her as an advocate, but instead chose to indirectly reinforce the racist rankings of our minority hater in chief. Six generations is not that far back, we are still likely talking about the 1800’s. Most people freely claim any portion of national ancestry in their family line going far beyond the nineteenth century. Let’s not blame Elizabeth Warren for researching the question and presenting us all with facts, especially in this fact free world of Donald J Trump.
1
The test doesn't even prove she's 1/1024th Native American. The test used Central and South American DNA as a 'stand in' for Native American DNA based on theories of migration 12,000 years ago. So she could be part Peruvian or Colombian, etc.
Either way, I'm about 1/16th Cherokee and I've never claimed to be 'minority' or a 'woman of color' on anything. By Warren's standards, everyone is a minority I guess. Does this mean we can finally put an end to identity politics and go back to debating actual issues?
14
What is overlooked is Trump's ignorance of Pocahontas herself. Sixty years ago, some of the story of the Native Americans was studied in NYC public elementary schools, including those in Queens, where he grew up, but what would he or de Vos know about that?
1
This column is still a Republican point of view. It may look silly, but seriously once again shows that Trump is a fraud. He may not even have a million dollars cash, but even if he did, he has no intention of paying up, the way an honest person would.
4
This column is a perfect example of making a mountain out of a molehill. At least Senator Warren has a sense of humour Ross.
9
she never should have played his game.
2
Elizabeth Warren is the prototypical candidate who appeals to the white base of the Democratic Party, but who would have a very hard time winning over the middle. And now she looks racially insensitive to boot.
The best thing about Warren is her crusade for individual economic issues. The problem is that I’ve rarely heard her talk about anything else. She would need to prove that she has the breadth to advocate for things like the environment, foreign policy, and campaign finance to get a nomination.
As a Democrat, my fear is that the base falls in love with a candidate that has little appeal to independents. It’s going to be a wild ride to 2020 and there’s going to be a lot of folks dissatisfied with the final choice.
4
What a non-issue all of this is. The fine points of Sen. Warren's (or anyone's ) heritage just don't matter much when a person is running for a national gov't office. Evaluate her on her intelligence, her focal points, her overall character. Yes, it was a cynical move on the part of Harvard U. to claim her as a "minority faculty member," for bean-counting purposes. But with financial, environmental and social crises looming, we need those possessing the best minds and hearts to hold the reins of power. That's why I continue to support Sen. Warren.
I'm from Massachusetts, and I remember very well Scott Brown's attempt to Swift Boat Senator Warren on this issue. (For those with short memories, that's where Trump got it.)
If she didn't put some facts on the table, then Trump would just continue to play to his base ... labeling her some liberal who used affirmative action to get ahead.
And that's what she's fighting, not some stupid name calling.
It's unfortunate that facts don't matter to either Trump or his base, but that's no reason to lie down and take it, acting as if the lies are true.
208
@C.L.S.
Like everyone else she should run on her ideals, values and our record. Whether or not she is part of indigenous decedent is of no significance and she should let everyone know thats how she feels. Lets vote for good people with good ideas and if Trump wants to try to make a circus about someone's ancestors we should ignore it and move one with the facts and the talk to the people about our vision. Let Trump spin his wheels without trackson.
1
@C.L.S.
So you think this vindicates her? It really makes her look exactly what Brown made her out to be.
1
@C.L.S.
Yaa, I'm from Massachusetts, too, and clearly remember when Warren stubbed her toe.
She doubled-down at the time, and she's trying to double-down again.
And in spite of her protestations to the contrary, she's running for president...We've had the obligatory non-announcement announcement. We've had the warm-and-fuzzy, hokie video showing that she is Okie to the core in spite of her mansion in Cambridge. We'll soon see the self-indulgent book where she ties things together with a giant bow, and claims that she is the most important development since sliced bread...a marble bread that contains all of the ethnic colors in the rainbow, too.
Yep. She's running for president, all right.
One thing, CLS, that I need to ask you as the defender of Warren's honor: Why is it appropriate for Warren to stand up and defend herself against "unfounded" and/or "unfair" accusations and it is inappropriate for Bret Kavanaugh to do the same under a far more scathing assault?
I am all for someone standing for him or herself when there are attacks on their character. I'm even in favor doing so with anger if the allegations are unfounded, gratuitous, petty, or uncorroborated.
This is an error for Warren to own. And the sooner she owns it, as Mr. Douthat suggests, the quicker the issue is going to die.
But when she chooses to own it, she will then, quite legitimately, expose herself to a critique of why she waited so long.
And, people are entitled to draw their own conclusions
2
How Elizabeth Warren could have handled the DNA results "In my family I heard that we were part Native American. I grew up believing this. Now this DNA test shows that there was some meager basis to this family legend. But not enough for me to claim any significant relationship to Native Americans. From now on I will not claim to be Native American but I will continue to support the rights of Native Americans and their struggle for full voting rights and their actions against injustice, including environmental injustice." ... Her mishandling of this issue will cost her if she attempts to run for President.
14
@John Mack This would have been a clearheaded way to move forward! It recognizes the myth-making around whites claiming American Indian ancestry, and puts fighting for the rights of American Indians front and center. Why is it, then, that the overwhelming majority of the NYT readership (the readership that comments, at least) thinks this was a genius counterstroke to the president?!
2
It's probably too early to say "...and loses". The good news is she's not cowed by his taunts and am quite sure if, as, or when the time comes, she'll have plenty of zingers for Trump.
She should probably hire Stormy Daniels as a senior advisor to her Campaign committee.
2
Elizabeth Warren is a thoroughly admirable academic, Senator, and citizen. She is not politically viable outside of a rarified coastal environment. If the entire electorate were as educated and temperamentally suited to rational consideration as are the people of Massachusetts, she could be a winning candidate and go on to be a great president. As it is, she does not have the chops to play rough. If she were to be nominated, it would be the final replay of McGovern and Mondale. This retired academic does not wish another retired academic to go down in the final moral victory. The future is at stake.
15
I don't think most democrats (myself included) care much about this. She's a thousand times smarter than Trump and has infinitely more integrity.
If she wins the democratic nomination, there will be an army of millions fighting for her.
21
I agree. Why did she do this? Give Trump and Republicans an opportunity to change the dialog on Pre-existing conditions and Health care and they will run with it.
This is why Feinstein and Warren are out of touch. Feinstein should step down after leaking the Kavanaugh accusations. Look at the Senate races now. In case you haven't heard, every race that Dems were leading in is now been downgrade to leans republican.
Folks, democrats need new leadership! There is no way that democrats should be losing after 20% corporate tax cuts and conservative state pending lawsuits that would end coverage of pre-existing conditions.
18
@Dr. Girl go study the Senate map....all the 'battleground' are in deep red states this midterm senate race was always the repubs to lose. And the election hasn't come yet...
It is unconscionable that anyone should have to engage Donald Trump at his level in order to secure a political office. This man has utterly changed the face of politics, rendering it a bully's game and a challenge at the basest of levels. It is tragic that any person - man or woman cannot be free to run for the office of President of the United States on his or her own merits and with the freedom to express his or her own agenda for the country and for its citizens. This can no longer be his - or anyone's - game. Serious candidates should indicate their suitability for the presidency, not their ability to take another person down.
3
@Marie
Sad to say, the ability to take another candidate down is a necessary qualification for president, or at least for a viable candidate for the presidency. I trust that the standard for Prime Minister is still more noble.
@Realist Thankfully, yes.
I, for one, have been truly disappointed by the attention paid to this issue. I think it is very unfortunately that this has risen to such a level - which is truly a result of (first) Scott Brown, then Trump, and not because Elizabeth Warren herself raised this in the context of her campaign or to advance her academic career (as was recently shown through extensive research conducted by the Boston Globe). The fact that she felt so much pressure to validate her ancestry through a DNA test to me demonstrates so much of what is wrong with the current atmosphere - if this is part of her heritage, then it is part, and she has never claimed to be a formal member or a tribe or any kind of tribal status. I have been very impressed by how Senator Warren has conducted herself as a Senator - she is often been the lonely voice of reason and truth - and she has certainly taken a "beating", led by Trump. I find it also utterly disgusting that he would continue to use the Pocahontas analogy, a figure long understood and misrepresented, that most likely do not even know her true story.
1
Did anyone think she was doing it to impress her non-intended audience? She’s playing this game the way it needs to be played, and her opponents are sorely (and sadly) mistaken if they think she’s acting at the elementary level this commentary assumes. She’s far ahead of this analysis, and far smarter than those who read only the surface.
6
How does the this report of her genealogy make anything better for her?
3
I adore Elizabeth Warren, but she made a mistake in thinking the president can be argued with. Just set down your ideas and policy proposals and do not try to outdo this president in his meanness.
6
With one Native American ancestor 6 to 10 generations ago someone identifies as Native American? Sounds like Warren has found and equal adversary to debate.
3
You do realize that, if it were African genes rather than Native American, under the laws of some states before the Loving case, she would have been prohibited from marrying a white man because she was Negro? It only took a drop.....
4
Ross,
No one expects you or Bret to ever defend anything Democrats do, after all you helped elect this lunatic to the high office.
Why don't you go write for Breitbart or something.
You sully the Times. They misjudge by letting you conservatives spout your empty rhetoric.
17
I think she should change her name to Pocahontas. Warren 2020
2
Funny! A real Pocahontas descendant would probably demand an apology!
3
Is it just me or does every conservative NYT Op-Ed columnist spend all week thinking up ways to say the democrats are messing up?
6
@EW That was a complete mess up by Warren or whomever advised her to release those DNA results. She played Trump's game completely wrong. She should have said, "yes I'll release the results when I'm elected" and just never do it. Instead, she went this way. It seems like her candidacy is already over.
3
@EW,
You know, I've been trying to think of a way to express your sentiment. Thanks for saying it first! I agree with you.
Why do the Democrats keep messing up?
1
Why do we always have zero tolerance when a Democrat does the occasional self serving publicity stunt, while all Republicans have to do is show up in their underwear and scratch their nether regions?
6
How many Warren supporters are agreeing it was a self serving publicity stunt?
3
Damned if you do and damned if you don't. If Warren had not had the DNA test and released it, she would have been criticized and demeaned for that. There's no winning in that sense when one is dealing with a freak show like Trump and the cruelty that is the GOP today. That is the nature of a freak show. That is what evil does. That is, simply, how it works.
In the face of that, she did the open and honest and transparent thing. I thank God we still have some politicians who show traces of conscience.
Evil depends on lies and obfuscation. That is why I am glad when Warren or anyone else seeks the truth. And Ross should know this if he's a good catholic who knows his Bible, which nowhere condones dishonesty or obfuscation of the truth, or, for that matter, bullying or name-calling.
And I'll stop taking Ross's columns with a huge dose of salt when I see a column on Kevin McCarthy's brother-in-law, who got federal contracts worth millions based on his highly dubious claim to Native American identity.
4
This absolutely pathetic column is another example of the ridiculous double standard that exists in our country, mostly because of hypocritical evangelicals like Douthat.
The president has sex with a porn star, gets caught paying her hush money, and calls her "horseface".
A credible account of a sitting member of the Supreme Court pins a woman down and covers her mouth when she tries to scream.
These are okay to evangelicals.
But a young Elizabeth Warren innocently checks a box about ancestry and Douthat goes nuts. We need better journalism in our country than this. We need proper perspective from more intelligent people than this. This kind of a column has created this ugly double standard that the bullies can do whatever they want, and the actual decent people around are humiliated for no reason. Our country is a disaster, and people like Douthat and his fans are the reason why.
21
The problem that many are not seeing is that Sen Warren denigrated a major tenet of the progressive/liberal movement, which is to help those who have faced discrimination, and who have been passed over for jobs, due to their sex or race. And she did this, in theory, to battle those who oppose her politically. Even though it is established that Sen Warren did not get hired due to her "checking the box" and claiming Native American ancestry, both Penn and Harvard used her claim to tout her as a minority hire during a time when each school was under a great deal of pressure to hire professors of color. It is almost certain that each school was able to divert a certain amount of this pressure, and to avoid making additional hires, because she was considered a person of color at that time. In other words, she most certainly helped Harvard meet affirmative action goals to the detriment of true minorities. And to further this ethnic misconception for political gain is truly tone deaf to those Native Americans who have experienced actual discrimination. This is why so many Native American leaders have severely criticized her claims of Cherokee ancestry.
6
For purely political purposes Ms. Warren had demeaned Native Americans by reducing them and their cultural heritage[s] to DNA profiles.
Many in the Native American community have pointed out that her claim to be defined as a Native American by DNA not only denigrates them, but also their sovereign right to establish the criteria for tribal membership.
Chuck Hoskin Jr., Secretary of the Cherokee Nation tweeted that the exercise was not only a mockery of the legitimate use of DNA testing, but also dishonored legitimate tribal governments and their citizens whose ancestors are well documented and their heritage proven.
Indeed, by extension her methodology suggests that genetics are a valid means of distinguishing between cultures and "races," a malignant concept that should have been put to rest long ago.
7
@Sam Your comment is spot on, But, it's to true and far to easy to understand for Warrens supporter to even recognize.
3
It was a case of damned it you don’t, damned if you do. Trump isn’t all that bright IQ-wise, but he has the street brawler’s “anything goes” kind of smarts that have gotten him where he is. This “by any means necessary” kind of tactics have generally worked for him (leaving a trail of lawsuits,) although I’m still not convinced his story won’t have a Shakespearean tragic ending.
Meanwhile, Warren has been at him all along, a tough women with a moral backbone who’s willing to mix it up with the aging, mentally unstable tough guy. Personally, I admire her for it and while this particular issue may have been mishandled, I still think she has the moxie to go after him on his own terms, something anyone vying for the Oval Office is going to have to do. If the candidate doesn’t go after him and stands there touting their moral superiority, they will get creamed, especially if that candidate is a woman.
412
@Brian Whistler
She skittered off the stage to make way for Hillary Clinton in 2016 instead of presenting a credible Primary Challenge to her. She lost any claim she has to the Highest Office when she made that decision. She could have been Madam President today, she chose to bow down to Madam Secretary and lost her chance.
1
@Brian Whistler. She can call him 'Deadbeat Don' from now on...throw it against the wall enough times, it's gonna stick.
1
@Brian Whistler Yeah, you make some good points. Whoever it is has to be able to engage with Trump and not stand on some imagined moral platform to look down from and silently judge him. Really, though, the Democrats should be looking for an outsider and not rely on any of these career politicians to pick up the populist flag. The recent CNN poll had creepy Uncle Joe (or whatever nickname Trump will create after posting the videos of him stroking young teen girls during Senate photo ops) at the top of the 2020 list and it really showed how little establishment Democrats have learned from 2016. No way Biden or Kamala Harris beats Trump, and maybe someone like Cory Booker or Warren could do it, but both are longshots. Dems need to look outside the family because the family has been fumbling strategically since day one of this administration.
2
It just seems that the reason the GOP has gotten, and remains, in power is because of the constant Democrat shooting themselves in the foot or sticking a "silver foot" in their mouth.
This fiasco is the latest effort in blatant stupidity; for stupidity sake. Warren gets a DNA and it proves she is 1/1024 Native American. To put this in some kind of perspective, everyone's DNA indicates they descend from Africans, as Homo sapiens evolved in Africa. Also, DNA tests show that a fair amount of the European descended human population carry DNA from Homo neanderthalensis The latter has a higher percentage of DNA that Warren claims to be Native American.
Ms. Warren claiming she is native American is like me claiming that I am an Ashkenazi Jew, because my ancestors come from Belarus. And, by the way, according to my DNA test, I have more Ashkenazi Jew DNA, than Ms. Warren has to declare herself a Native American.
Thus, Ms. Warren hands the GOP, on a silver platter, nasty campaign fodder. Ms. Warren should have just said, that she did not have Native American blood, and she was mistaken; end of story. But, for politics and that Native American vote, she claimed that she is Native American. Not only to get into office, but to be considered a "minority" for other purposes.
Too bad that a Russian-Italian-Catholic-Russian Orthodox-Jew is not considered a minority, but "White", else I would have benefited getting into places like Harvard, that Ms. Warren did.
10
Poor timing, on Warren's part. Her announcement of the DNA results should have waited until after the elections... or not shared at all.
But if the senator is smart, she'll keep mum about this issue for the foreseeable future. She should use the remaining days until the election--and her thorough understanding of economic issues--to blast the Republicans who are planning to strip hundreds millions of Americans of benefits that are rightfully ours. She should be working in any way she can to help Democratic candidates get elected in November, to restore sanity to Washington before it's too late.
As for the rest of us: we need to vote and help others do the same. (I've done my part already. How about you?)
1
I have a hard time believing that if Harvard Law touted Ms. Warren "as the first women of color on their faculty", that they did not have that at least in the back of their minds as a hiring consideration. Ditto for Univ. of Penn.
4
Nope, you're not the target audience and you've got this all wrong. The only way to deal with bullies is to stand up to them. The election isn't going to be held tomorrow. It's in two years. If she decides to win, her base will grow. There are millions of Americans who will never vote for a democratic woman regardless of what she says or does. Who cares about them. Elections aren't won in landslides anymore. The game is rigged against democrats and urban voters particularly, that's clear. But if dems stand a chance, it will be by standing up to the republican bullying nonsense.
1
Whatever the reasons may be for liz warren referring to her native american link, calling liz warren 'pochohontas' is a racial slur directed at native american indians, like using the 'n' word. Trump is a mysogynist.
One might be white, black or brown and view herself or himself as native american, liberal, conservative or whatever. Long as it does not offend anybody it should be ok.
I believe her when Elizabeth Warren when says she has a native american link.
1
@observer It's truly amazing how much milage Trump gets from name calling. A large part of the electorate apparently likes these "characterizations." We'll be seeing more of them. Soon we'll be hearing about "Swift Boat John" and "Beddy-Bye Biden."
“Front Runner”?
Elizabeth Warren couldn’t get elected outside of Massachusetts. Well, maybe California. Please Democrats, don’t do this.
10
if this is the worst that can be said about Elizabeth Warren, I am voting for her.
8
Trump and his allies mock Native Americans and Elizabeth Warren is the one who is supposed to apologize?! This is ridiculous (on all fronts). It is certainly a distraction from real issues (Trump's actual game), but Senator Warren has nothing to apologize for. She proved she does in fact have Native American ancestry and there is nothing wrong with being proud about that. There is also nothing wrong with someone (even if they are only 1/1000th NA) bringing attention to a group that has been sidelined to say the least. You don't ignore bullies - you stand up to them.
1
I disagree with this Opinion columnist. Warren has a right to defend herself and the attacks on her family by the president. Also, it is great way to call out Trump on one of his lies that he would pay a million dollars to a Native American charity. He was never going to pay, and that alone should be exposed.
4
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood: one went high, and it was full of moderate Democrats who felt that the way to counter Republican extremism and Trump-era sleaze was by appealing to the center, promising to stabilize the careening ship of state, and projecting honesty. The other went low, and was populated by liberals convinced that the Old Ways would not work, and the only route to a Democratic majority was to offer up a liberal version of alternative facts and social media distractions, and to get down in the mud with Trump and to beat him at his own game.
It's disappointing that Warren, who is admirable in so many respects and right about so many things, seems to be choosing the low road. She will undoubtedly succeed in exciting the Bernie Bros, but I suspect she will only alienate the millions of undecided and independent voters who feel like all politicians are corrupt liars and therefore it doesn't matter who you vote for.
It's hard to be the adult in the room these days. But what I want, and what I think most voters want, is to have a clear alternative to Trumpism, not a liberal version of it.
1
Please Ms. Warren, do not run. I would vote for you, and think you would probably do a good job, certainly better than what we have now as you would likely be working instead of golfing and holding rallies every other day, but as a candidate you will not appeal to anyone outside of the angry left given your liabilities. We need a strong candidate capable of garnering votes from all sides in 2020, and I'm sorry, but you are not it. We need to learn from 2016. Please put aside your ambition for the good of the country.
4
Never play a game you can't win and this was a no-win for Warren. Trump plays by his own rules which change constantly and you can never keep up so it's a waste of time to even try. You have to create your own game; something the Dems seem unable to do.
4
Time will tell whether Warren's DNA test backfired on her or not. Since she has never tried to capitalize on her ancestry, I think she simply wanted to silence Trump's racist jabs. She has shown him up for what he is, a racist and a liar (he'll never pay the million he promised).
Meanwhile, Ms. Warren is still among the best candidates we have for president in 2020.
This just goes to show that stupidity isn't confined to republicans. We are living in a time when we should be focusing on how much we are all alike, not on our ethnic or other identities. This "I'm special because I'm a (fill in the blank)" doesn't cut it for me anymore.
4
I have a lot of respect for Warren, who seems to try genuinely to protect all of us from harm. But there are too many errors of judgement here, most disturbing, the insensitivity to the affirmative action issue plus truly trying to understand the communities she claims to be part of. Worst for her though, is that you cannot fight this teflon monster on his own terms, because he will use absolutely anything. Douthat says you best aim straight if you try: I say do not play his game. Change the game. He is far too dangerous a psychopath and far too corrupt. Witness prioritizing arms sales over the dismemberment of a reporter and a human rights reporter at that, a gift of a human being we all needed. The insanity must stop, and I think that Warren simply fed it, which was predictable. A woman of her age and history will suffer like Hilary did, and sadly won't be the one to heal us, much as I trust she would give anything to be able to do. She would be sacrificed almost as badly as the reporter, in a presidential election. I hate that this is true, but we need someone who can survive every turn of this hot mess we are in.
If Warren actually runs against Trump in 2020, this joke is on him. She exposed his absurd claim of charity giving as unreal as the usual Trump charity fake. However Trump - and the Far-Right -that's taken over the Republican Party -- tries to spin it, he's lost a bet he dared her to accept, and will bluster his own truth and look absurd.
IF he's still available to run in 2020, and IF she's the Democratic candidate, one small but glaring example of the man's absurdities and dishonesties will be remembered - and make HIM look bad, not her.
@Jan - I respectfully disagree with you. We have seen that out trumping trump doesn't work. There is no lie, no insult, no slur he isn't willing to make. And calling him out as a liar is silly - of course he is. It's like calling him a racist - everyone who can recognize a slur already knows this and it doesn't move the needle on anything else. Dems need to stop trying to play Trumps game and realize they have their own game. And it's a better one.
@Jan He said "IF SHE can prove by DNA she is a AMERICAN INDIAN he would donate the money to charity. SHE by the results of her own testing prove she is not an AMERICAN INDIAN. She is 99.8% white female European. You know , the ones who invaded America.
This overly-wrought "rebuttal" of Warren's posting of
her DNA testing misses two important points. The obvious
one is that Trump has been badgering her about this issue.
She had a DNA test done and it indicates she likely has some Native American heritage. Non-scientists can quibble about the test, but it is the best we've got. Scientists who understand the degree of proof, would say "okay, it indicates likely Native heritage", even if distant. More important, is that Trump, ever the consummate liar, denies he said that he would give one million dollars to charity if a DNA test showed Warren's Native heritage. Of course, it is on tape, so he will add the title of Welcher-In-Chief to the
title no one disputes: Liar-In-Chief..
1
The requirements for tribal membership are interesting, and, not based on DNA. Membership has become a very touchy subject as a result of casino profits. The NY Times had a very interesting story about members being dis-enrolled. Several tribes state on their websites that they do not care about DNA results. I thought it a ridiculous claim when she announced it. I also thought it odd that she clearly hadn't researched the topic, as information about Native American ancestry and DNA testing is very easy to find.
Not mentioned in this article is the original reaction of news outlets, who gleefully replayed Trump's $1,000,000 challenge. They now look as foolish as she does, and as obviously biased.
1