Cohen is correct when he suggests that Trump and Wall Street’s reaction will be defined by money. That is what matters to them. The Saudis will get bad publicity for a few more days and the assassination will be remembered but go unpunished.
76
Gosh, a government that consists of people who support terrorists and savagely oppresses women and gays (like most Muslim nations do) actually has the audacity to kill journalists that oppose their regime. Shocking! But after we get over the shock, let's find a way to blame Donald Trump.
Please spare us the hypocrisy. If Trump is slow walking criticism of the Saudis, he's doing it because he believes that serves the interest of the US. Whether you agree or disagree with that assessment, let's be clear--the left-wing press has been far more accommodating to the excesses of ugly dictators than Trump ever has. Not only did they tolerate the abuses of dictators like Fidel Castro and Hugo Chavez (and earlier Joseph Stalin and Mao Zedong), but they fell in love with those people because they represented a system they supported, and a system they felt was preferable to ours.
If Trump's calculation is that supporting a brutal Saudi regime is in the interests of our nation, he is just as entitled to do so as was every other US president for 70 years who supported the Saudis, when their human rights record wea probably far worse than it is today. And at least it appears Trump has attempted to quietly get them to reform their repressive Islamic state, unlike our prior president who made a point to apologize to them on our behalf.
Of course, because he is Donald Trump, there is an angle in every story that can be used in an attempt to undermine his presidency.
4
No worries, the Saudi's have trump, the US President, over a barrel that will eventually be revealed in yet another future 'Breaking News' corruption scandal.
Watch what he does, not what he says - because if his lips are moving he's lying.
17
Over the last couple of decades, I have unsuccessfully tried to explain one simple thing to the NYT editorial board.
If you want to change somebody, you have to understand their system of values better than they do.
You cannot impose your system of values upon anybody.
You have to be able to analyzes THEIR basic values, step into their world, recognize the logical contradictions within it and point out the correct implementation.
That’s the same solution I offered to our government a few months after the 9/11/2001. I told them you cannot change anybody by waging the wars and occupying them. Thus, I offered them a path that would be a thousand time cheaper and ten times faster than the one created by the Bush Administration.
A several trillion wasted dollars later and in the middle of the longest war in the American history none of them believes me.
Sorry, that’s the only trick I am able to perform. I cannot walk on water or revive the dead people…
That’s far above my pay grade!
7
The Turks say they have video tape evidence. Well let’s see it.
Rather than believe this fanciful - cut up the body story, I am more inclines to believe that he was taken and returned to Saudi Arabia.
I think this is a story about rendition not body parts
Apparently, when enough money is involved, anyone can do anything, no matter how despicable or venal or anti-democratic.
This is the corporatist view that predominated under fascism, complete with the cult leader and false religious moorings.
The best thing that can happen in American politics is to take the money out of politics. With mandatory public campaign financing, our elected representatives will work not for the money, but for the people.
And the people will demand the strict enforcement of business ethics, tax compliance and a return to morality.
31
Moral and ethics has never been the pillar of US Politics, but your continued support for the Saud family is truly disgusting. President Trump openly said that an arms deals with the Kingdom was more important than the potential dismemberment of a journalist by that country.
"God, grant me the serenityto accept the things I cannot change,Courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference"
That's why i'm changing my Iphone for a Samsung on Monday!
13
Truth is powerful, trump's lies, obfuscation and weak morals are not.
8
It is incredible how gullible and blind those who should know better were enamored by the Saudi prince. His actions before and after accomplishing his ascendence were reprehensible and still Davos in the Desert remained on their schedules.
Should Munchin and Jamie Dimon attend, despite Mr. Khashoggi's disappearance and possible murder, let them be detained at the Ritz to be tortured and shaken down for cash by MbS. They can have Trump and Kushner too.
16
George W Bush didn't cut ties with Saudi Arabia even though 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers who murdered 3000 of our people were Saudis. Now everyone is getting hysterical because a Saudi hit squad allegedly murdered a Saudi journalist. This assassination sounds like something out of of the Godfather--it was business not personal.
I fail to understand why we're being dragged into an internal Saudi matter. Saudi royals are ruthless thugs with no scruples. Anyone who crosses them is going wind up dead. It's better if we don't get involved for once. No good is going to come of it so why bother?
4
I have a better chance of winning the lottery than expecting the president to act against Saudi Arabia. If you do not like it;then get out from behind the couch and vote.
16
'The capitalist will try to sell you the rope that will hang him'
- Lenin was right about a few things after all.
6
I keep thinking that this was such a stupid act -- is young MBS really this deluded and stupid? Maybe, but the more obvious answer is that he was simply outmaneuvered by one of the scores of angry relatives who would like him gone. Perhaps he ordered a kidnapping (as the intel showed), but some other person/entity took ball in hand and turned that mission into a gruesome murder -- which would conveniently be caught on Turkish recording devices and security cameras?
This would put MBS in a box: to admit he's been outmaneuvered makes him look weak; to admit he ordered this savage crime forces the world to act against him. Either way, he's through. If this hypothesis proves correct, we may have an even bigger monster waiting in the wings.
57
But...but...Saudi Arabia is a seated member of the United Nations Human Rights Council. That means they're one of the "good" countries, right? [read as: sarcasm]
12
Every now and then it necessary to use language in its simplest form to describe an incident and behavior.
The Saudi Arabia government "is a criminal government."
This is based on the latest information on the reporter's disappearance which indicates that he had on an Apple watch that was synched to his iPhone which he had given to his fiancée and was linked to the iCloud and that is how his assault, torture, and death were recorded. In addition there is a Saudi Price who is an advisor to Prince Mohammed who is the Prince's enforcer in subduing the press, reporters, dissidents, and any negative stories about the monarchy. It appears he may have been behind the murder and Prince Mohammed would have known.
Let me say it again. the Saudi government "is a criminal government" and our President has to stand up and represent American principals. He so far has not done this and has been challenged on many occasions because of his financial relationships. He does not meet the standards for American President on American values.
He does not understand the fabric that has been knit that makes up our laws and customs because he simply has this major deficit.
17
If Turkish authorities do possess video and audio evidence that reveals Khashoggi's killing inside the Saudi consulate, it just shows how clumsy the 15-man Saudi hit squad had been.
Khashoggi could have been murdered unintentionally by the first team of nine agents who arrived in Instanbul at 3:13 am and lay in waiting inside the consulate. That the forensic expert and his team had to be called in - they arrvied at 5:15 pm - to clean up the mess, shows the panic of the hit squad, and their lack of professionalism.
Overall the Saudi security forces are said to have the best military hardware, delivered by the US. But experts say they are not skillful. An example is the war in Yemen - they are not winning and rolling back Iranian influence in the Middle East. It explains why the Crown Prince panders to Trump and the two have built a good, useful relationship, to the detriment of global security.
47
One of the conference dropouts you name was born in Iran. Might he be very aware that Saudi Arabia would not be a safe place for him to visit, even as a very successful American citizen?
8
There are not enough bad things to say about Trump and his confederacy of torturers, murderers, war mongers, thieves and despots. Right now Trump is planning to put more children into his concentration camps. America, what makes you think he is not coming for you? Journalists are the "enemy of the people", opponents, are "criminals", dissenting protesters are "crazed" "angry mobs". Get the heck out and vote and ight voter suppression and meddling. This is the most important election of our time. We cannot allow this behavior to become more entrenched.
20
This President, his Cabinet and the entire Congress must be forced to hear the full audio of Khashoggi being tortured and murdered.
Then they need to answer to the press why we are still supporting this despicable, depraved Saudi Prince.
18
Erdogan of Turkey, who seems to be gleefully reporting on the apparent barbarism of the Saudis against members of the media, is no paragon of virtue himself. He has more journalists in jail than anyone else in the world. His opponents have a tendency to disappear into the back seats of black SUV's, never to be heard again in some instances.
Erdogan held pastor Brunson hostage for three years, in the hope of exchanging him for an old nemesis living in Pennsylvania. When the price of hostage-taking proved too high (Turkish lira lost 40% of its value in the past year), the witnesses against the pastor started recanting their stories, and the prosecutor miraculously asked for dismissal of the charges against Brunson! The same guy who'd said
“‘Give us the pastor back’, they say. You have one pastor as well. Give him (Gulen) to us,” Erdogan said. “Then we will try him (Brunson) and give him to you.”
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-turkey-cleric/turkeys-erdogan-lin...
now says the Turkish judiciary is "independent," and he will respect their decision! Yeah, right!
7
Trump’s rationale for not rushing to condemn the Saudis for killing Khashoggi is that Saudi Arabia produces business and jobs for Americans. I don’t think any American would kill a man and cut up his body with a bone saw to get a job. And if they wouldn’t do it themselves, they are complicit if they accept a job made possible because a crew of 15 Saudis did it instead of them. Do Americans want jobs purchased with blood? I don’t think so. But Trump seems to think those are the kind of jobs Americans want. The man is a moral black whole and a miserable excuse for a human being.
Think about it. This guy actually recorded his own detention, interrogation, torture and murder with his Apple Watch. I hope it got turned off before they started sawing up his body. Trump knows exactly what happened and he can’t even bring himself to dignify the man by using his name. To him it’s just “that incident.” Khashoggi actually knew something like this might happen. It’s just too horrible to think about. But that’s where we are in Trump World.
28
In so many ways, Saudi Arabia is ISIL light. Decapitation executions is a Saudi specialty. Then, there's fifteen of 19 perpetrators of 9/11 Saudi citizens. All the while, open, near weekly access by Saudi ambassador, Prince Bandar, to the Bush WH despite evidence of his criminality. No WH explanations, no investigations. Then, immense war crimes in Yemen, Saudi-inflicted famine, genocide. At the same time, the perpetrator, Mohammed bin Salman, tours the USA, plaudits and flattery not just by Kushner/Trump but really most US media including extraordinary pusillanimous performances by US media (see eg., Norah O'Donnell, an "interview" with MBS promoted by CBS in spectacular fashion for an entire week. The only decipherable reason for this over the top coverage: MBS as a gesture of princely beneficence planned to give women driver licenses. That the repression intensified, the decapitations, egregious violations of human rights escalated, total amnesia including by the major media including the NYT. Then, we find that for a showpiece investment event late October, all the global influencers, are colluding including the NYT as a sponsor. The same NYT has also given massive coverage, mostly positive, to this MBS bogus narrative. Cohen has been one of the few people skeptical, see eg., The Prince Who Would Remake the Worldly Cohen,NYT June 2018. It's not only Israel given a pass for human rights violations,it's its' closet ally Saudi Arabia as well.
13
Our current MidEastern Crisis was set in motion by an earlier time, when the British Elitists earnestly believed that THEY knew what was best for the world.....and what was best for the British Empire was best for the world. After WW1...these Elitists draw clever lines on a map, much like an intellectual parlor game, then appointed various local potentates to become "royal families", shuffled them around the region, made ridiculous promises to all involved. The Turks were thrown out of the lucrative Mecca Pilgrim Racket....that was handed over to newly manufactured "Saudi" royalty..(last years dirty, impoverished desert raiders). Hashemites were relocated from Mecca to various other locations throughout the area(newly created Jordan and Iraq) and somewhere out there, a bunch of Jews were squezed into the mix. After WW2, the whole Empire thing was reluctantly handed off in a bag to the USA. The Iranians had the temerity to ask for a 50% cut in the oil that BP was taking....so the Brits asked the naive Yanks to destroy that govt(communism being the excuse)......and since the Saudis now controlled the oil, the Yanks began a long period of sucking up to them, even rationalizing several Saudi's flying airplanes into various american buildings, and totally botching an easy Capture or Kill of BinLadin. There ya go.
8
It is impossible for capitalism to survive, primarily because the system of capitalism needs some blood to suck. Capitalism used to be like an eagle, but now it's more like a vulture. It used to be strong enough to go and suck anybody's blood whether they were strong or not. But now it has become more cowardly, like the vulture, and it can only suck the blood of the helpless. -Malcolm X
“This is Trump World. Money talks. Brutes do what they want. Human rights are scoffed at. Morality is what you can get away with. Truth is no match for manipulation. Decency dies. Culture collapses.”
I am no admirer of Trump but I don’t agree blaming him for everything amiss under the Sun. It’s not Trump world, its typical capitalistic American world where only money talks and its hypocrisy to be critical no matter of the party Republican or Democrats.
Being pal of dictators is an American value. Rex Tillerson was but truthful saying that the US wouldn't worry about "values” making alliances for the purpose of national security. America has been picking its allies based on geopolitical strategy rather than morality for a long, long time. Being nice to autocrats is one of the more normal things Trump has done as president.
As the ancient Indian sage Chanakya put it “There is some self-interest behind every friendship. There is no friendship without self-interests. This is a bitter truth”.
8
The Saudi embassy team who participated in the American journalist's dismemberment tapped the imaginative potential of our elected president.
7
For those who want to understand the real story and connect these dots to the past, watch Bitter Lake by Adam Curtis, with details from deep inside the BBC archives
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRbq63r7rys
1
The Saudi's have enjoyed an inexplicably friendly relationship with the US for many decades before Donald J. Trump. Despite the fact that the 9-11 terrorist hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, the nation endured no consequences resulting from a dozen or so of their own killing over 3000 Americans. To now put all of this on Trump - that he somehow enabled it due to his relationship with the Crown Prince - is at best a distortion of history. I have no love for the Saudi's any more than the rest of the Middle East and I have no objection holding them to account. Stop blaming Trump though as if this is a problem solely of his creation.
25
@Alan
Only fault in your comment - of the 3000 killed on 9-11 a considerable number was from other nations.
1
He's not to blame for the creation. But he owns policy now.
Trump has been actively undoing everything his predessesors put in place. Taxes, pollution regulations, Iran nuclear treaty, Paris Accords, Nafta, tariffs on allies, etc.
Why not change this relationship?
3
Excellent per the course for Cohen. Yes to all you say who should not attend the conference held in Saudi Arabia in light of this most recent atrocity. It appears those swords are used in other ceremonies than dancing, and in other countries as well, to silence and slice journalists who speak truths to both the latest Saudi prince, all of 33 years of age but Trump's big friend, and those from the press who do their job. The press is "fake news" when it writes things it sees/observes/adjudges to be truth. That broad sweep of condemnation from Trump does not shut up the very curious and persistent press/journalists who continue their questions/quest for a perception that needs confirmation. If indeed Khashoggi was murdered and dismembered, what a horrible, arrogant and vicious statement was made--not only to him, his family, the Washington Post, but to those of us who have observed these machinations from the Saudis, fromcertainly 9/11.
6
Trump’s call to M.B.S. will doubtless focus on damage control not justice. An “alternative narrative” will emerge.
“It” wasn’t even a U.S. citizen, merely an aspiring one that held legal residency—as well as dignity, intelligence, courage and a sense of hope that blurred his vision of just how dark the world can truly be.
While some Republicans may stand up on this, it won’t compensate for their complicity in empowering a man and administration whose ignorance, recklessness and lack of morality enabled such an atrocity.
15
"Beyond himself and money, Trump has no serious interests."
Forgive the cliché, no truer words have been spoken...unless you offer golf as a rebuttal.
18
If Google and JP Morgan Chase do not withdraw from the Saudi investment conference soon, I call on everyone to switch their gmail and bank accounts to ethical sources.
Enough is enough. Every American foreign correspondent is in danger.
15
This op-ed and comments don't seem to address Trump's personal interests in Saudi Arabia. In addition to Saudi interests, Bin Salman himself has been a huge source of business for Trump hotels and real estate while Trump has been in office.
16
21st century dictators: Putin, Bin Salman, Khamenei, Duterte, Kim, Ortega, etc...Trump desperately wants to be number one on this list.
Trump has already built in an “out” to the Saudi situation. He said “if” the Saudis are responsible, he’ll slap their hands.
Trump is unlikely to agree that any evidence establishes Saudi complicity. Why? Because Trump (likes gold jewelry and the power of men to abuse women and) supports killing people who don’t share his views. Just watch his rallies...and don’t forget our own military trains the Saudis and our own contractors sell them billions of dollars worth of aircrafts and killing machines. Even though it may not be “much,” it is more than enough for Trump’s inaction today.
Reminder: Trump joked about killing people on 5th Avenue. Fox and infoliars continuously prep Trump’s base, daily trying to deliver nonexistent conspirators for execution. Pizza anyone?
5
Trump and Jared get plenty of Saudi dough from Trump hotels and Jared's real estate empire. Is this not a violation of the emoluments clause? Both have financial entanglements with MBS, they'll look the other way whatever crimes against individuals or humanity he orders. Where is Congress? Trump should be impeached and Jared should be investigated for dealings with MBS. America continues to spiral down into darkness and yes: EVIL. Is this what Republicans believe how we make America great again?
14
THIS is why we need the Emoluments clause and Congress willing to enforce it.
I believe Trump's financial entanglements with the Saudi royalty, combined with his vitriol toward journalists and praise of brutal autocrats, emboldened the Saudis to this act.
They were certain they could ambush, torture and murder a journalist living and working in the U.S. inside a foreign consulate with impunity. Destroying all traces of Mr. Khashoggi's corpse was to ensure sufficient "plausible deniability" for Trump to ignore or minimize the crime and continue business as usual.
And now they will know they know they have his permission...what comes next?
6
Death squads, hit commandos, torture, secret service dark prisons don’t only characterize Saudi state terrorism. They have been the hallmarks of US dirty realpolitik for decades. Former presidents have been hypocritical about it, denouncing this system in public but secretly maintaining or even expanding it.
For Trump moral values, and human rights have no meaning, he does not even have to lie about it. What’s a billion dollar weapons deal against one murder? Immaterial.
We are paying the price for having turned a blind eye to our hypocrisy for years. Welcome to the amoral world where strength and submission will replace attempted justice and fairness.
America has never been exceptional, it is not a firewall against tyranny, the majority of American voters are not defenders of democracy but enablers of autocracy.
They just never had a chance to prove it, one might think. But a closer look at American history shows that these autocratic element always existed, in the South. What we experience today is nothing but “Southerization” of the US.
We are not a Union anymore but a Confederation.
4
Congress bolsters our spoiled child of a president, giving it everything, even more-than he asks for, and then takes issue when Trump crosses one particular line they may or may not feel comfortable with. They are as complicit in this non-response to the Saudis as is the White House. You can't create a monster, then pretend to be an innocent bystander when that monster plays its hand.
13
Saudi Arabia (and others) draw a black goo, the resin of extinction, from the darkness of the earth. Empty these tombs and burn what's left of a previous species, causing the world to release the fume of that extinction into the air, perpetuating the next round of extinction. Sea levels rise. Hurricanes get stronger.
Meanwhile, the sun shines all of the energy we will ever need, down from above. It's free. It's clean. It's non-toxic. It will only run out when the sun implodes. By then, humans will be elsewhere, or gone.
This is literally a fight between darkness and light.
5
President Trump has obviously created very smooth and nicely oiled relationship with the regional tyrants.
If they were scared of him, they wouldn’t act in such a bloody way!
The princes imitate Putin, not Trump!
Losing audience to Vlad must be extremely irritating to Donald.
Is he yelling at the TV set right now?
Every true showman demands undivided attention!
2
If the NYT truly wants to punish the murderer, they should widely publicize the following:
Mohammed bin Salman is acting like God deciding who gets to live and who should die.
That’s not a global problem; there will be extremely stupid and infidel people as long as the humanity exists.
The problem is that he is the undisputed ruler of the Saudi Arabia and that nobody within the Sunni and the Shiite world has anything against his actions. The Shiite Ayatollahs don’t object it because they are acting in the same way by privatizing God’s prerogative to determine what the faith is and what isn’t.
The true believers would think that the faith was prescribed by the Almighty long ago, not by the living clergy.
By the way, both the Sunni and the Shiite priests love to invoke the tradition and punish anybody for breaking it.
They conveniently tend to forget that at the moment of Prophet Mohammed death there was no Sunnis and no Shiites and no schism, so none of them could be a part of any faith-based tradition.
They have mutually divided, antagonized and polarized for the same reason as the Republicans and the Democrats – over their human cravings for the earthly power.
When any politician in the world tells you they are doing anything in the name of faith, don’t trust them!
They just want you to blindly obey them. That’s exactly opposite to the very essence of the faith. It demands you to be faithful only to the eternal principles, not to any individual!
8
...from those wonderful folks who gave you 9/11....
Trump needs bin Salman, so that SOMEONE is even more disgusting than he is. It doesn't matter HOW... will someone rid us of this foul excrescence -- and the vile sycophants who support him -- that disgrace our government. It's a sign from God that federal prison jumpsuits come in Trump Orange.
8
Eloquently written . The Saudi regime is reactionary and the sponsor of Al Queda terrorism and religious fanaticism. To divorce American policy from humane and democratic principles is to appease and condone
the worst elements of that regime in pursuit of
selfish monetary gains. It represents Trumpian foreign policy at its hideous worst . Imagine President Trump in the 1930s conducting business as usual with Hitler’s Germany and likely supporting him because much more money could be made
by allying us with him and his dominance in Europe than opposing him and siding with Communism and a weakened Britain. There would have been no call for a better world, for freedom from tyranny and justice for all people. No allies. No United Nations.
No hope for a better world. Enough said.
A Trumpian America strongly resembles Fascism!
Where is American decency and outrage?
Where is Patriotism to reject this aberration and
selfish cult?
5
Under Trump the only foreign policy is how much can I do now to grease my little palms for me and my family after we leave office and have left this Country in total disarray. No coincidence he would court Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, a smooth talking thug, who has no interest in Trump or the USA aside from the fact we can provide him with weapons but so can Russia and China. Trump knows this and like the sleaze he is strikes while the iron is hot - human rights, some semblance of foreign policy - not when there's money to be made, big money... billions according to the economic whiz in the White House. Well POTUS, erudite student of world affairs and history tell the people at the UN or those victims of bin Salman's reign of carnage in Yemen about your Saudi pals... of course you don't recall those lovely OPEC oil embargos of the 70's and what that did to our economy, or you could tell the families of those butchered by Saudi nationals on 9/11 about your friendship with these thugs and see what they think. Unless Mr. Khashoggi miraculously appears then I would think you have some soul searching to do about your Saudi bonds.
7
This was an obscene crime that might very well galvanize world opinion against Trump, this week. Sadly, the Republicans could not care less about this murder. They will mouth outrage. Then they will talk about the strategic relationship with the Saudis. And where is John Bolton? He is so busy consolidating his power in the White House that he could not care less about this murder. Never before has the US stood shoulder to shoulder with so many brutal regimes. Does anyone really imagine that the Trump administration will do anything other than continue to suck up to the House of Saud?
163
Trump is fine with assassinations as long as he's making money with the perpetrators. Really, if he gets away with that one too with Congress that will clearly signal the end of the great United States of America unless the truly remarkable people that made it so great realize that money's not worth that end.
7
“blind to devastation from the Saudi-led war in Yemen, ”
He has not been the only one. I am glad that the country is finally waking up about the Saudis, but our support, which includes aerial refueling, for Saudi crimes against humanity in Yemen began under Obama and was largely ignored by the mainstream in both parties. Now some Obama people like Ben Rhodes are trying to rewrite the history.
Maybe a coalition to stop the war invariably involves a bit of Orwellian rewriting of history. But don’t be fooled by it.
3
Trump would love to do the same thing to those members of the press he deems “enemies of the people.”
7
What's the "end game" of this? Let's say for a moment that the Saudis are guilty (really looks that way). What happens next? We demand the Prince resign or abdicate or accept that the operation was executed by a rouge henchman (more likely) and he is put in jail in Saudi for 10 years (or until everyone forgets)? All these calls for action that commentators make, what realistically do you suggest happen, not just "make the Saudis admit.. " but what happens next?
1
It is hard to forget that Trump’s first State trip was to see the Saudi’s.
Freshly in office, (I was barely over that) the images of him embracing the Royals, dancing with a sword looking liked some wild night on hallucinogenics.
This President cares little for the press and I doubt if even the death of a FOX reporter would change his stance. Above all else, money matters. That and dictators, is what he respects.
Thanks for a well written piece.
(202) 456-1111. This is the phone number for the White House. Call it. Tell them you don’t approve of the US attending this conference.
This is unconscionable.
10
Much of the world, except perhaps Donald Trump's base, will hold it's nose - but not it's breath - in the hope that the Saudis will be punished. Instead, we will perhaps see Salman's robust denials of Saudi involvement in this barbaric butchery. Except, we will perhaps see no tears, snivelling, and facial contortions from Salman.
And, we must be careful not to inflict "pain" on the Saudis with our accusations. After all, the President is very sensitive and may be prodded to apologize to Prince Salman for the execution of the journalist.
Wouldn't be surprised if the Democrats end up getting the blame.
4
Doesn’t anyone find it interesting that the first country Trump visited after his election was Saudi Arabia? Not one of our traditional allies like Canada or Mexico whose trade with us is more valuable than Saudi oil? And then we find out that the Trump Hotel in New York was struggling until MBS brought his entourage there and suddenly it’s operating in the black. No I don’t blame Trump for Khashoggi’s disappearance; I blame him for not stepping up immediately to demand answers, for seemingly dismissing his inaction because “it” is not a citizen, just a resident, for allowing the Treasury Secretary to go to the “Davos of the Desert”, for believing that his 37 year old son-in-law and the 33 year old MBS could bring about a Mid-East peace etc. If this heinous crime has really happened, something made MBS feel he could get away with killing an American journalist and there would be no consequences; I don’t know what caused him to feel that way but I have a strong suspicion that the fact that Trump made his first trip there has something to do with it.
11
Call it what it is, Murder. Headlines that call it A Killing, soften what happened. Someone is responsible for murdering a human being and all the evidence points to the Saudi's.
5
As always, an amazing account, analysis, and expression of outrage, serving as a much needed conscience in the face of horrific acts. But I wish everyone would stop quoting Lindsey Graham on a good day. He took similar positions about Sessions (not now), Mueller (I don’t think so) and Trump himself (now his most ardent sycophant). His word or opinion means less than nothing, misleads, and only weakens any journalist’s position who refers to him as though his word is his word. Other than that, a stunning piece of journalism Mr. Cohen!
12
"that does not mean you have “a blank check to do anything you would like.”
Lindsey Graham, bravely tiptoeing forward with the most severe criticism of the Saudis he can muster, but only after his master, Donald Trump, also expressed mild dislike for this murder.
Disgusting!
7
Cohen: "After 9/11, 15-man Saudi hit squads are very familiar to Americans."
This statement might be too subtle for readers from the far right. One of my wife's conservative friends is absolutely certain that it was Iraq that attacked us on 9/11. There is no way to convince her that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis.
6
Don’t quote Lindsey Graham. He says one thing and does another. His words are worth nothing.
11
"It’s time to call in every Saudi chip. The United States has plenty, including arms sales. "
As evidenced by other cases, the most potent "chip" would be to sanction individual Saudis involved. Note that the effects of the Magnitsky Act seem to have been particularly irksome to Putin and his cronies, and that is exactly what it does.
So use the powers provided by the Global Magnitsky Act, and soon.
8
There is no $110 billion arms deal. There is at most from what I have seen reported a $25 billion arms package, a lot of which is parts -- parts for previously purchased American jet fighters and other weapons. The Saudi Air Force is an American-made Air Force and is not going to be replaced by planes from China and Russia, a process that would take 10 years or more.
And the Saudis, for all their money, are burning it up in Yemen and, again from what I've seen reliably reported, haven't got the cash to pay for $110 billion in arms even if it was on order as opposed to simply being their shopping wish list.
So let's try to get those facts into every report on column on the president's large lie about $110 billion in arms sales to the Saudis. There is no such sized deal and may never be.
11
It's all good, Lindsey the Fishmonger's got Trump's back. He's got it taken care of by providing "values" cover, asserting (so strongly!) that if anything untoward has happened to Khashoggi and it can be lain at MBS's feet, "there will be real hell to pay." (Hey, it worked on the domestic GOP on Kavanaugh, though the Saudis aren't that plain dumb.)
Go get 'em, Lins! Maybe you could even get 41 and 43, those co-opted members of the inbred Houses of Bush and of Saud, to say pretty please!
That Mnuchin and Dimon haven't pulled out yet shows the real stance of Wall Street/DC power. There's black gold at stake, after all! We've got our priorities.
(Actually, though I couldn't help but issue my screed, it does seem there's a significant surge of pullouts from MBS's soiree. (No Mnuchin or Dimon yet...) That's the only way to get some sway with MBS - hit him in the wallet and the ego.)
8
Roger, didn't you write a fawning piece about bin Salman not too long ago? Just as Tom Friedman did. Just as David Ignatius at the Washington Post did. Embraced him just like other big names in American media, business and tech.
This despite the horrific violence in Yemen. Despite the goings-on at the "Ritz prison." Despite the continued brutal political repression.
It was there for all to see when you and your cohorts were going out of your way to praise MBS as a "bold reformer" or some such nonsense.
So what changed? That the latest victim shares your profession? Is that what it takes?
It was quite something to behold the American establishment - media, politics and business - singing MBS's praises in unison just a few months back. Wouldn't it be interesting if a crack investigative team at a world-class news organization dug into whether there was some funny business there?
16
@Vin
And even now, note how softly the NYC is approaching Khashoggi's pretty evident murder: every 'hard news' story about it in this paper is couched by qualifiers and uncertainty--this despite there being no plausible story line that lets the Saudis off the hook.
And the NYT is treating this as a 'news cycle thing', as evinced by the story starting to slip off the front page.
1
I'm sure Trump would like his own hit squads and is probably disappointed that no one in his cult has taken down anyone from the 'enemy of the people'. Trump just loves the power dictators have, he is sooo jealous.
19
@David
You got him down to a small t.
2
It should come as no surprise that Trump favors leaders like M.B.S., Erdogan, Duterte and Putin. They're all kindred spirits.
But unlike them, Trump’s a showman. History has seen his type before, but not in our time: the cunning demagogue working the crowd, stoking their worst instincts, appealing to their raw emotions, their fears, spewing hatred and lies to rapturous applause.
Any student of history would recognize Trump’s playbook. “Trump is more in the mode of a Mussolini, with a dash of Juan Peron for spice”, says a friend of mine, “less horrid than Hitler, but no less dangerous.”
To this you add the looming prospect of global warming, and it’s hard not to conclude that we live in very dangerous times. We could be ushering in a dystopian future. Or we could rise to the occasion and make it our finest hour.
12
Trump obviously doesn’t care about human rights elsewhere. Here in America he practices unprecedented cruelty against poor refugees who are simply running for their lives. Frighteningly one of his “tells" is the brag that he can shoot down innocent people in the street and his base won't care. So he has already thought about it, and bragged about it. When and if he gets the chance, who believes that he won't just do it?
4
Neither MBS nor Donald Trump should worry about a thing. Little Lindsey will come around as soon as the fragrant AG prospect is again dangled in front of his nose.
Meanwhile, if only we had a credible opposition party in this country!
10
Welcome aboard to the Saudi Orient Express!
4
To Donald Trump and his ilk, it’s all about and only the money to be had. What a clueless, sorry and lacking man he is.
We should all be so ashamed to have this uncaring and ignorant man as President. Truly ashamed.
11
The latest insane narrative of the left. Trump is now responsible for human rights abuses, world-wide, because he embraced one of our most trusted allies in the Middle East, Saudi Arabia. Really, this is the most intellectually dishonest essay I have ever read.
13
@Mark V
Trusted ally? Major exporter of terrorism is more like it.
2
@Mark V Trusted ally to do what- war? Saudi Arabia needs the US. The US does not need Saudi Arabia. When our leader looks the other way they can act with increasing impunity not fearing the consequences. Talk about intellectual dishonesty!
6
No, not responsible for but culpable in. His anti-journalist/journalism/free press rhetoric along with his personal financial interests re: the Saudis caused many of us to, right away, predict that his response to this would be tepid, at best, and sociopathic, which it was. But from the right, we see the ongoing insanity of holding Donald Trump to NO standards, never mind to completely different ones than you would were this Obama or Clinton.
Lindsay Graham has ZERO credibility. He let the hit squad known as Donald Trump kill and dismember the reputation of one John McCain and did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. If he won't stand up for an American hero and his close friend, why would he do anything about Khashoggi? Answer is: he will not. Unless Trump tells him to. Good dog, Lindsay. The thing Graham is most afraid of is Trump rolling up the newspaper and slapping him across the nose with it. I cannot help but wonder why Mr. McCain allowed Graham to attend his funeral.
17
Obama defending Islamic leaders good. Trump defending Islamic leaders bad. Gotta love political hacks.
3
MBS – you got punked by the man you had killed. He was an old dude – 59! But he used an Apple watch and millennial technology to expose you for the murderer and despot you are. As a so-called Master of the Universe - that’s got to hurt! You’re only 33, but you’re done. You overplayed your hand - you can’t buy your way out of this one. Your Daddy is too old to help you now. Your entitlement and hubris existed long before you met Trump and Jared Kushner. You played them for marks. They gave you false courage and you got sloppy. Goodnight, sweet Prince...
16
@markymark
That would be a great story. Wish it would play out that way...
8
Uh, remember when a bunch of Saudis crash some planes into America and Bush and Obama invaded Iraq and Afganistan? Come on.
8
Thank you Mr. Cohen.
So many journalists killed recently while investigating corruption and organized crime e.g. Bulgarian woman raped beaten left to die in direct message to never criticize leaders.
I'd never realized how important we uphold human rights around the world (even as we did horrible things) until we announced we wouldn't.
It's one thing to hold at arm's length, another to embrace the worst. Deals can be done w/o the sucking up for $.
One life too far MBS.
4
As Cohen makes clear, words have consequences and US presidents have profound responsibilities. But you'd never know that listening to the current occupant of the Oval Office.
The blood of Jamal Khashoggi is on the hands of Donald Trump. It's highly doubtful Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman would have dared do this without the tacit carte blanche of the White House.
Our president is a fawning, blowhard ignoramous, and now it's cost a man his life.
8
Putin gets away with it. And he’s Trump’s buddy. Kim Jong-um gets away with it. And he’s Trump’s buddy. Prince Mohammed bin Salman is also Trump’s buddy. Connect the dots. Is he going to get away with it? Yep.
134
Trump and Kushner wish they could send the Saudi hit squad over here to deal the the rash of fake news and defamatory media coverage they're getting in the press.
7
"MBS" no longer stands for Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. It now stands for "Murderer bin Salman".
13
Would that greedy, uninformed lout have the same reaction if it were Ivanka who disappeared inside the Saudi embassy, never to be seen again?
4
“My daughter was raped and killed and all I got was this stupid tee shirt.”
Our fearless leader is just fine with the apparent murder of Khashoggi, unwilling to threaten $110 billion in arms sales to the Saudis. I guess that Trump wouldn't have sanctioned Hitler had the US had a job-creating contract to build the Fuehrer's gas chambers. Moreover, even when the supposed job-creation is a big lie - it looks like the alleged $110 billion is a fabrication - Trump is still not inclined to punish murderous dictators, aspiring to join them in their club. Especially when they fete and flatter him, which after all, is the only thing that really matters to our disgrace of a president.
8
Saudi Orient Express...
2
poor poor poor comrade trumpsky - once again so so misunderstood ---- NOT --- its all about money and nothing else - nothing.
4
I so hope that one day the donald will be begging for mercy at The International Court at Den Hague. Of course, they do not kill people and the USA government does not recognize them. He is a war criminal in my opinion. The.CBC IDEAS series had an excellent series about the International Court prosecuting the war criminals from the Former Yugoslavia.
5
Roger Cohen unfortunately repeats the Trump claim of 110 billion dollars in arms sales to the Saudis. That claim has been extensively proven to be another Trump whopper, referring promarily to a wish list without concrete deals and a few previously announced contracts dating back to the Obama administrstion.
So this isn’t even a matter of human rights vs realpolitik. It is another example, instead, of the Trumpian ego, obsession with Iran, and his general attraction to autocracies.
10
Suppose – just suppose – this were actually a rendition and not an assassination...
Suppose – just suppose – the story about torturing and bone sawing was a false flag...
Suppose – just suppose – this were just a game of human chess – and the Saudi gambit is to cause a reaction of peak outrage...
Against which all that follows could be seemingly rationalized...
What is the real message being sent here...
1.Given enough money and sovereign power, anything is actionable
- or -
2.Given enough sovereign power, anything is legalizable
For clarity, the skepticism – which, for further clarity, is not denial – here isn’t apologist or obstinate or ideological...
It’s just that more and more false flags are being planted, these days – to the point where they’re going to become as much a part of our news-scape as anything real or imagined...
There’re two broad categories of false flag, and neither is new – or uniquely enabled by AI...
1.The first – in a statistical-based assessment – delete about 80% of the 20% of the data that conflicts most with the desired premise
2.The second is an outlier meme (e.g. “Remember The Maine”) that self-sustains the premise, simply by being repeated
However, AI can make the footprints of the first type harder to find – and it can filter through thousands of outlier memes to find the most disruptive...
Or several – across which an deep alternate reality can be triangulated...
3
Trump repeats that the press is the enemy of the people. Saudi Arabian elimination of Khashoggi was in keeping with Trump view of the world.
4
Judas' price was 30 pieces of silver for Jesus' betrayal. Trump's price for a life was much higher at $110 billion in arms sales but morally equivalent. Judas hanged himself. Mr. Trump hugged himself. I don't ever expect to see Trump hanging in the East Room but I would be happy with resignation.
After all, he would say, Mr. Khashoggi was a journalist, one of those "enemies of the people", who worked for the Washington Post. Win, win. It could only have been better if "it"--they way Mr. Trump actually referred to a human being--had been Jeff Bezos.
I wonder what a worker at McDonnell-Douglas would think as he worked on the F/A-18 line about selling his services not just for money but also for the right of the buyer to murder and dismember another man.
Even the Quran understands. In telling the story of Cain and Abel, Sura 5:32 reads:
"For this reason we have ordained for the Children of Israel that whoever kills a person, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it as though he had killed all men. And whoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved the lives of all men."
Is there nothing as valuable to you, Mr. Trump, than your "thirty pieces of silver"? Asked and answered.
Reprehensible.
3
Saudi arms sales shouldn't be stopped "until." They should be stopped, period. As should the Saudi royal family. This is a ruling class the beheads women for adultery. This is the perfect time to take them all out.
9
This recent event does not surprise me.
I was very young. The soon to be Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia—Faisal bin Abdelaziz Al Saud who later became King and then in 1975 was murdered by his nephew stepped out of a black Lincoln limousine in the drive of our home in Alpine, New Jersey. He was surrounded by body guards. Today, so many years later I can still picture every detail. I can still feel the awe of his presence.
My father, a poor Swedish immigrant's son had become the most powerful American banker for all of the Middle East at the House of Morgan, so important that even this princely man from Saudi Arabia would visit us at our home and drink coffee and eat my mother’s pastries.
Then a few years later the Saudi ambassador to the US and Stanford graduate ali al reza mysteriously died from food poisoning in a plane back to Saudi Arabia. He also had been a guest at our home.
A spooky part of the world!
www.InquiryAbraham.com
5
What price for a human life or a stand for morality? The arms merchants of the United States will not be deterred from their profits and the politicians (on both sides of the aisle) will give lip service only until their own pork barrel is threatened. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
3
It seems evident, despite the Saudi Arabia's claim of innocence, that the world was meant to know the MBS regime brutally murdered Kashoggi to silence him and to intimidate anyone else who might dare to oppose the regime.
Trump's non-response is not tacit acceptance but explicit approval.
People really do need to wake up. As much as murderous regimes succeed by bringing out the worst in people, fomenting anger and hatred, etc., they also require that good people fail to see or hesitate to believe what's happening.
6
Trump is just the latest US president to bow to Riyadh, they all do, 9/11 and all.
6
Ease up on Trump. He did not order the murder of this journalist. Must every tragedy be twisted into something political? I don't care for Trump the man. But as president, he has accomplished quite a bit that is positive. So, he made an arms deal with the prince (Obama before him sold arms to the Saudis also) and somehow Trump is now responsible for the journalists death? Tr, please try to stop the hate and just stick to the facts.
Brutes who want to cement power by intimidation start with 1 or few inhumane brute act, they get disensitzed by it and employ it more and more.The current,genuinely reformer PM of this country(6 months since he took office), short time after being PM he invited Press corps and others and gave them a tour of what used to be Emperor H.S.1st's Palace.The Palace's Comp is where PM's have office and live.He took the visitors to what used to be The Fascistic Marxist-Leninist Milt Dictator's(Col.Mengistu H.M.) office and revealed that the Dictator had the Emperor buried under his office desk.The regime lasted 17yrs.In that same palace he got 60 Emperor's Minsters who were Harvard,Oxford,Cambridge Grads as well as Top Generals who were Grads of West point or Fort Worth,etc..The burial spot was News 2 me too (I was tortured in 1 of the 12 torture divisions, in the Pal comp, for 60 days ).These Prison cells and T.Chambers were very secretively kept and hardly any one who got there comes out alive ( How I survived it remain Pol prisoner for a couple of yrs at another place and time). During those horrifying times though the palace lies in a fine Rd, almost daily frequented by many Diplo corps Vehicles nothing seems going on inside.The young Prince's regime needs a savior if the Regime needed to last in US's and other Nation's interest and so enough pressure have to be applied on it.It should free Those abducted at Ritz +they b given fair + open hearing of their cases as well.TMD.
1
The murderous Saudi regime give over $100 million to the Clinton Foundation and Presidential Library. The Clintons should set an example and return their blood money. Accepting money from murders can not be condoned .
3
Money is God to this administration , and to Trump , He answered with this arms deal.
3
Mohammed bin Salman is acting like God deciding who gets to live and who should die.
That’s not a global problem; there will be extremely stupid and infidel people as long as the humanity exists.
The problem is that he is the undisputed ruler of the Saudi Arabia and that nobody within the Sunni and the Shiite world has anything against his actions. The Shiite Ayatollahs don’t object it because they are acting in the same way by privatizing God’s prerogative to determine what the faith is and what isn’t.
The true believers would think that the faith was prescribed by the Almighty long ago, not by the living clergy.
By the way, both the Sunni and the Shiite priests love to invoke the tradition and punish anybody for breaking it.
They conveniently tend to forget that at the moment of Prophet Mohammed death there was no Sunnis and no Shiites and no schism, so none of them could be a part of any faith-based tradition.
They have mutually divided, antagonized and polarized for the same reason as the Republicans and the Democrats – over their human cravings for the earthly power.
When any politician in the world tells you they are doing anything in the name of faith, don’t trust them!
They just want you to blindly obey them. That’s exactly opposite to the very essence of the faith. It demands you to be faithful only to the eternal principles, not to any individual!
1
"The Saudis could shoot and dismember someone on Fifth Avenue and don't think I'm going to do anything about it."
16
Trump will do NOTHING. His Nannies in the White House May convince Him to blow a little smoke, but that’s it. He only wishes he has the same power, and is surely jealous. He ADMIRES Dictators, the more deadly, the better. That’s who he IS. To sell Weapons to them is absolutely insane. They are mass murderers, PERIOD. So let’s just wait around for another 9/11, on their schedule. The Trump Doctrine.
SAD.
9
The title of this article is insensitive/offensive. Please revise it as there is nothing humorous about what happened to Mr. Khashoggi. It’s a heinous crime and Mohammad Bin Salman must be held accountable. Justice for Jamal!
3
Trump is outrageous but the USA has had a suicidal relationship with Saudi Arabia since oil was discovered there in the 1930s.
Saudis led the world in funding of madrassas hate schools and 15 of the 9/11 attackers were Saudis, so we invaded Afghanistan after 9/11, which was like going after a mob hitman and leaving the mob boss alone.
Until very recently, Saudis led the world in beheadings, so we invaded Iraq and went after the Saudi-funded ISIS that emerged from Iraqi ashes, which was like declaring war on one of Mussolini's armies and leaving the Hitler, Hirohito and the rest of Italy alone.
Even now as the USA obtains an increasing amount of oil from outside of Saudi Arabia, we still can't figure out how to confront our evil "friends."
3
I've enjoyed Roger Cohen's commentary for years, even though I haven't always agreed with his view but this one struck home.
Thank you, Roger, for calling out the Saudis for exactly how I see them since 9/11 saying "... This is pure Iran derangement syndrome. Iran is a repressive and expansionist regime with a hideous human rights record. So is Saudi Arabia.
Looking at the history of the past two decades, ... it is impossible to argue that Iran has inflicted more harm on American interests than Saudi Arabia has. The Saudis take that dubious accolade."
5
Let's remain realistic. If he's dead, we are less interested in an admission of guilt than we are in knowing why other reporters remain in Saudi jails. Most notably, why is Raif Badawi still in jail? The collective silence among world politicians and the world's media regarding the 950 (nine hundred and fifty) lashes waiting for Raif Badawi is the slippery slope that led to the (probable) extermination of Jamal Khashoggi. Reporters and politicians alike should establish that the level of the eventual isolation of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia depends on whether it is now able to offer immediate and future commitments to the well being of reporters, starting with Raif Badawi.
5
As long as terms of millions of Americans are interested only in being entertained (even by conmen), and in $$$ - and this includes low brow and high brow culture groups - the future is bleak. America had become a nation of stupid and blind people, oblivious to everything serious that does not either entertain or enrich themselves. This, regardless of how their decisions affect the rest of the world.
10
Another detail worth noting: the tail numbers on the Lear jets that transported the hit team to and from Istanbul identify them as belonging to Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. How likely is it that a pair of his jets go on a mission without his knowledge?
16
@Rick Cowan
These guys were sloppy.
2
"After 9/11, 15-man Saudi hit squads are very familiar to Americans." Wow, let that one sink in for a moment.
15
Is there ANYTHING you're not willing to blame on Trump? This is ludicrous. You guys are headed right off the rails.
For $110,000,000 the Saudi's can murder who they please. Will somebody call me with my tee time?
6
It appears that 30 pieces of silver, due to inflation, is now worth $110 billion . Vlady has a piece of Trump. Un has a piece of Trump. The Saudis have a piece of Trump. Who will be outed next?
11
@athenasowl
Sadly, that commander in chief we got by accident is not going to get his just punishment in this life time. But his voters - at least the poor 9/10th of it - will.
4
"...sometimes a single life is all of civilization."
How cogent and prescient that sentence is. A single life impacting all of civilization. That can be said of Khashoggi’s life which was spent highlighting Saudi Arabia's uncivilized kingdom. He forced a consciousness in the civilized world of the kingdom's human rights abuses, an acute awareness that the rulers are not civilized.
Another life, which impacts civilization not in a positive way like Khashoggi, but in a terrible way, is that of Donald Trump. He has unleashed division, incivility, shown hostility to values (legitimizing white supremacists, calling Democrats evil); undermined our institutions and rule of law (attacks on the media, FBI and Justice Department); incited mob unruliness (his rallies); implemented a national policy of human rights abuses (separating from parents and caging immigrant children); threatened the survival of our democratic republic (attacking allies, befriending enemies).
Throughout human history there have been lives that impact all of the civilized world for good or bad (Mahatma Gandhi and Adolf Hitler are two obvious examples). Those who choose to ignore the value or the loss of a good life to profit from an uncivilized kingdom should themselves be expelled from the civilized world. To do otherwise is to demean all of civilization.
Those who choose to ignore the inhuman transgressions of Donald Trump and Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman are consciously choosing an uncivilized world.
3
The Saudis have always been allowed to buy their way out of embarassments and undiplomatic "incidents" caused by their murderous thuggery, be it 9/11, beheadings, flogging of women and genocide in Yemen. They should not be allowed to buy their way out of this one. I don't care how many billions they want to spend on American arms, or how much oil they have, or how much MBS is helping Jared Kushner and Bibi Netanyahu steal Palestinian land in the West Bank. It's time to turn our backs on this bloodstained "kingdom" and let them know they've gone too far. I agree with another commenter here that we should be making friends with Iran, not the Saudis.
5
For years they (the money establishment)have been telling us we have enemies, in Tehran, Libia, Iraq, Syria and even Gaza. Its a distraction, we are looking in the wrong places. One of the world's greatest threat is in Riyadh.
The Saudis fund ISIS, they founded Al Queda. They play both sides. They infiltrate our banks and economy. They promote Wahhabism the underlying philosophy of Islamic Jihad. The send it here, they promote it in Bosnia and Kosovo, the Philippines and Indonesia.
They are our enemies. Pure and simply. The "House" of Saud is our enemy.
14
@Duffy
The changes in Indonesia are the saddest to me. I used to love visiting this beautiful country - go to the remote and outer regions, spend time in nature and villages. Fanaticism has taken a root there now.
4
Trump is amoral and has many American willing to follow his lead. This is a period of moral cynicism where the only creed is the survival of the strongest. Those that espouse moral values are seen as both hypocrites and weak. This is a dangerous time in our country’s history.
9
We Americans have through-out history picked the wrong side and undertaken dubious aggressive decisions that has led to much accelerate upon a fire. This is the case exactly with Iran and Saudi Arabia, in this centuries old feud between the Shites and the Sunnis, we decide to aid and encourage the Saudis.
Trump is the pinnacle of incompetence as well as lacks any compulsion to learn or understand. He also adores Authoritarian figures and wishes to emulate those traits. What could possibly go wrong?
4
To think the Sauds are the keepers of Mecca, where a massively gaudy tower was built with a giant clock some ten stories tall might be a perfect metaphor for the young prince. Only time will truly tell. I can’t imagine world leaders meeting with him over the next 50 years of his life. The best thing that could happen, besides JK walking out of a Saudi jail, would be for the prince to hand over his keys to the half billion dollar yacht he bought and drive off into the Saudi sunset.
Daddy Saud needs to step in and make things right.
5
Well said.
3
Khashoggi would be 60 tomorrow--devastating. Step Up Trump..
51
I talked to the Crown Prince and he assured me, in very strong terms, that he had nothing to do with this. So I believe him. I don't think there's any reason to believe he had anything to do with it.
4
Thank you, Mr. Cohen, for being the first commentator I know of who has linked Mr. Khashoggi's suspicious "disappearance" in Saudi Arabia's Istanbul consulate with the part played by Saudi nationals in 9/11.
In the aftermath of 9/11, the media largely missed that, even as all flights within the US were supposedly grounded, members of the bin Laden family were somehow being spirited out of the United States. Somebody high up obviously enabled this. The whole cozy relationship between American leaders and the Saudi rulers stinks of corruption.
610
@mancuroc The Bush administration, whose family had long ties to the Saudi's & their oil, ensured the Saudi's that they would be safely escorted out of the U.S.
9
@mancuroc,
I remember the aftermath of 9/11. I remember our government scrambling to protect Saudis- while every American was grounded and not allowed to take flights the US government quickly protected Saudi citizens. I recall the newspapers, like this one, not saying a word about that. Our people lay dying and Saudi Princes and Princesses got private security to return home. Priorities!
I recall the media, including this publication, going out of its way to defend Saudi Arabia. These were radical extremists- not mainstream Saudis.
I recall the media, including this publication, pushing for the war in Iraq. Never a bad word about Saudi Arabia.
And now a single- ONE!- (foreign) reporter is killed by Saudi Arabia and the news media explodes into action. Saudi Arabia is dangerous! Remember what they did on 9/11? They are such a big sponsor of terrorism!
I get it- when it is one of your own you care- when it is someone that doesn't matter to you- you don't.
I find it telling that the news media didn't seem to care about Saudi Arabia when 2,977 regular American citizens were killed. But one Saudi journalist? Well that calls into question our entire relationship with Saudi Arabia.
Bravo! Perhaps with media pressure we can end our relationship with the terror state Saudi Arabia. Thank you Mr. Khashoggi for doing what 2,977 American citizens couldn't do- get the media to care.
5
@mancuroc House of Bush, House of Saud. Oil owns the lot.
4
Yemen has been a human rights disaster for years, and the United States has its fingerprints all over it.
This outrage over Saudi Arabia's behavior is long overdue.
170
Its probably time to rethink the advantages of the Old British
Parlor Game of "Make Nations out of the Middle East". #1 reality.....MidEastern Oil is no longer vital to Western Europe/North American Economic Survival. Russia now supplies most of the archaic needs of the German Economy.
And UK,France, Netherlands, Spain, etc have found more reliable sources for energy. The USA and North America have become largely self-reliant. Arabian Oil Country is about to become "Fly Over Country". China pinches off the Oil Supply to Japan....only at China's peril(Pearl Harbor happened because We also tried cutting off Japan's energy supply). In 21st Century, the flash point may well be the four way contest to become the Master of Mecca(and collect enormous revenues from pilgrims)....Saudis vs Turks vs Egyptians vs Iranians.....the rest of the world can afford to simply Fly Over that part of the world.
2
Are there any countries in the Middle East that don't routinely murder dissidents? I can think of only one, but that country easily wins the contest for "Most Hated" in these pages.
1
Trump: “I don’t like it...” - because he’s savvy enough to know that platitudes like that are what he is supposed to say, but then the truth comes out: “not gonna stop $110 billion in arms sales...”.
And so he will kick the can containing the nations conscience down the street until in a few days we will get;
“I asked Salman if he killed the journalist guy, and he said no, and by the way, he’s a great man, lots of money, buying all our arms and it could have been a 400 pound guy who did it, nobody knows”
And that will be the end of that, as far as he’s concerned.
He literally has no soul. None whatsoever.
8
Why should Trump care about a journalist from the hated Washington Post being chopped up when he has advocated violence against the press and bragged that he could murder someone and not lose support? The Prince and he are birds of a feather.
6
Trump's got this all figured out. Kavanaugh said he didn't do it, so he didn't do it. MBS says he didn't do it, so he didn't do it.
Besides, the Saudis spend a lot of money in Trump's hotels and they buy all those armaments, so one would be a fool to believe what his eyes see ans his ears hear...
8
Yes to all that Cohen wrote. But Saudi war crimes in Yemen are starving 18 million people and killing hundreds of thousands (aided by our military-industrial-congressional complex). The murder of Khashoggi is similar in kind but less in degree.
4
When one even compares the value of a life with economic gain, the morality of the person is question. When a monarch orders the literal butchering of a human being the issue becomes bestiality. When a nation which fashions itself as the “chosen” leader of the free world condones bestiality by remaining silent for all practical purposes, it looses all claims to humanity let alone being its defender.
Wake up America. If it is not already too late, get rid of Trumps and Bushes. They are bad for us and for the rest of humanity.
Vote in November 8, for the most progressive candidates you see on the ballot.
5
I keep reading statements like ... “until we know how Khashoggi disappeared in his own consulate.”
What more do we need to know? Whether they sawed his arm off before his leg? If he was alive when they sawed his limbs off? Whether he was tortured before he was killed?
We truly have lost our soul as a nation if this is the type of country we call a friend, an ally.
9
Powerful analysis, where ie a Lindsey Graham rant when it might do something really good?
2
Donald Trump will get tough. He will look MBS in the eye, as he did Putin. He will ask him, “Did you do this?” And MBS will say no.
And Donald will say he believes him. MBS is a good guy. MBS is a victim of fake news.
This will all be announced at a MAGA rally in Indiana.
Next news cycle...
8
The craven murder of Jamal Khashoggi is an appalling affront to the civilized world,and another example of the growing perfidy of Saudi Arabia.The brutal assassination requires an immediate and forceful response from the United States. The thuggish leadership of Mohammad bin Salman,despite superficial reforms, has moved the Kingdom closer to a totalitarian state.The imprisonment and flogging of LGBT individuals continues. Dissent can lead to imprisonment and in some cases, execution.The war against the Houthis has precipitated the humanitarian holocaust in Yemen, a war crime by any definition.The insidious evolution of the Kingdom has been abetted by the ignorance and transactional ethos of the Trump administration.Military shipments should be immediately suspended.Military cooperation should cease,and the U.S.ambassador should be recalled.
3
A president who preaches "right to life", simultaneously condemning journalists as "enemies of the people" has blood on his hands.
3
The US has been permissive to immoral Saudi behavior against innocent civilians many times before.
You don’t need to look at this journalist or Yemen. Just think back to 17 years ago when Saudi’s Arabia sent a hit squad to do 9/11. We didn’t act then, why expect things to change now?
6
Could this be a plot by Saudi conservatives to push MBS from power? It just seems so amateurish.
1
Both, both, Both, parties have cosied up to the Saudis, OK? Do I really have to bring up the Clintons and the Saudis to make that point?
5
Thank you for this.
4
Be surprising if Mnuchin or anyone in DJT's regime boycotts Saudi Arabia. Or if Lindsay Graham sticks to his guns on this issue ... he'll cave at the knees like all Trump's flunkeys always do. We know that DJT's delayed and reluctant statement 'that if it [the killing] happened it would be bad' is just a charade that fools nobody. Likely DJT envies MBS's ability to silence domestic critics, and wouldn't mind doing a bit of the same to his own domestic critics.
2
Before Britain devised and implemented a Military Strategy based on Arabian Oil.....the Arabian Penisula was sectioned off into a myriad of Ottoman(Turkish) vilayets.....there was no such thing as "Saudi Arabia". The concept of a Saudi Arabia is completely an invention of snotty British aristocrats who believe in their own invincibility and their ability to cleverly manipulate those incredibly gullible Yanks. The British have either by design or just plain dum luck, removed the Hashemites from Mecca and handed that financial plum over to the Saudi Family(formerly ragged desert raiders lusting for plunder and justifying it through religious fanaticism created by baking their brains in the hot sun). Now, at present, the direct descendant(and possibly rightful ruler of Mecca) is King Abdullah of Jordan, himself.....an Englishman!! Yep. An Englishman(his mother being a member of English nobility).....consider the monumental world wide flip out when this obscure fact becomes important.
Do you remember when many of us thought trump's boast that he could shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with it was nothing more than an appallingly sick joke? It's now clear it's not a joke. Trump can do absolutely anything he wants to trash American values, like supporting the murderous regime of MBS, and get away with it scot-free. Congressional Republicans fuss and fume for show, and then go on with business as usual in their blind support of trump.
5
What did Jared know?
184
While I agree with the sentiments in much of this essay, I also feel the need to remind Mr. Cohen that this sort of behavior on the part of our government has been the historical norm regardless of who was president or which party was in power.
Denying the past serves no-one.
8
Let's drop the pedantic insistence on the final, irrefutable proof. Any even mildly informed observer of the nature of the Saudi regime and the world scene in general would know by now.
Here is the worst part, for the Americans: the President, publicly and on camera, states that 110 billion contract for the US arms industry and its workers (MAGA!) is more important than forcing the Saudis to explain what happened in their consulate to their critic - who as a non-US citizen (resident only) is made to sound as even less important (America first!). The President's confidence that these dog-whistles to his "base" are all that matters is clear. That, plus this bit: the American pastor released from Turkey to come home! Clear and horrifying: is THAT the truth about those people? Please, someone explain to me (I live in Denmark): those God-fearing Trump supporters - do they REALLY not give a damn about a man walking in to his country's consulate, to be killed and dismembered by his government?
28
@Emrysz My Friend, I will try to explain. He is their Great White Hope, one more time. To prove that the white man is better than a black gentleman, no matter what has to be trashed to prove it. White makes right here now more than ever. Perversion of television obsession run amok.
1
@Emrysz
Probably a Muslim so why would they care?!
I get it. One life vs 110 billion dollars to military-industrial international shareholders. Of course you don't jeopardize that kind of money for one life.
But I'm curious... What IS the number of lives that are worth 110 billion? 2? 10? 1 billion?
If we can say that 1 life is not worth it then surely there is a number that is.
14
@tubs
Is or is not the soul of America worth $100,000,000? This is a test!
2
Principles are value driven boundaries that one will abide regardless of the consequences for oneself. America has always been greatest when it is exercising its principles, not its shortcomings. Our dependence on fossil fuels is not only destroying our environment, it is creating an incredible disparity in wealth and power throughout the world, forcing us to rely on a societies whose principles are an anathema to our own, and resulting in the needless deaths of thousands of Americans and millions of middle easterners who simply want to live a life that mirrors our own. This Administration has no principles, so it is destined to failure.
8
Roger Cohen is right that Trump's values-free policies have emboldened dictators the world over. That's why it is not "just one life" that is at stake in the Khashoggi case either. If the U.S. government does not take extremely strong measures to censure the Saudi government now, the Saudis will rightly believe they can act with impunity and get away with even more brazen and despicable acts. The apparent murder of Khashoggi is nothing less than a strike on a free and open society precisely because it is free and open.
It is no different from the Russia poisoning case in England. The English were used, and they knew it. Their citizens were put at risk from a nerve agent (one woman died) and Russia claimed innonence, but England's refusal to back down became a diplomatic crisis. So should it be here.
I'm sure Trump will speak to M(r.)BS and announce that his denial of involvement was very powerful. Isn't that Trump's playbook when it comes to his dictator buddies? He will say "I asked him and he said he didn't do it. I have no reason to think it was him." And then Trump will announce Saudi Arabia's "incredible offer" to help the U.S. and Turkey find the real culprits behind the murder. And that will be that. Heard this before?
25
@Jeng. Trump will announce that there is no evidence that, after the most intense investigation ever conducted, there is no evidence that the Saudi Crown Prince had anything to do with Kashoggi's death. Then he will apologize to him for the pain and humiliation that all of those "unhinged liberal critics", with no basis at all, have caused him.
1
In this entire I'm saddened that one tragic aspect of the story is completely ignored: what in the world did compel Mr. Khashoggi to enter a Saudi consulate in Turkey? Was the formality of a marriage so important to be ignorant of that risk? Would the Sauds have risked the same brutal murder in lets say Paris?
I doubt it.
@CitizenTM
Should read "In this entire calamity..."
With the timing to perfect there must have been 'foul play' in luring him there. One should also investigate those who suggested for this to happen in Istanbul, imho.
2
I don't see how even Trump can let this go. Truly astonishing
3
The penultimate paragraph is a masterpiece.
6
We know Donald Trump is infatuated with authoritarian governments and is taking the United States of America into that realm.
Mr. Khashoggi was a proponent of the Muslim Brotherhood, and so I am not all that disturbed by his death; it isn't as if he were an advocate of liberal values. (On principle, of course, I am not in favor of assassination.)
As for the Turks' protesting Khashoggi's death, you've got to hand it to them, as if Turkey hasn't for a decade been imprisoning and killing journalists, teachers, and appalled military men who disapprove of Mr. Erdogan.
Mr. Trump, a self-involved megalomaniac, is interested only in people adoring him. The show that Kanye West put on for him in the Oval Office the other day is proof, as if we needed any more. That little fawning minstrel show -- for that's the only phrase for it -- rivals anything Bill Clinton might have done to desecrate the space formerly occupied by the likes of Theodore Roosevelt and FDR.
The Saudis support Muslim extremism. They're not our friends. They supply us with oil and money. That our cultural institutions are dependent on them stinks to heaven because they do not produce great art, they only appropriate it. That Donald Trump has business dealings with them and so tolerates them even more than other presidents --
Faugh.
1
The public should not be surprised by any action of Trump's after the Bonwit Teller demolition. He thumbed his nose at New York and America by destroying an art deco icon after promising to preserve it. This was Trump's 'beer hall pusht'. He wasn't stopped then, so now...
6
“If you’re an ally of the U.S. because we have strategic interests,” that does not mean you have “a blank check to do anything you would like.” Don't put too much stock in what a Republican senator says. Lindsey Graham, Ted Cruz, Bob Coker, and Jeff Flake, especially Jeff Flake. When it comes time to act they all lineup behind Trump and party leadership.
3
Any US relationship with Saudi Arabia is 'values free.'
Saudi Arabia is responsible for 9/11 and much of the worlds terrorism. Yet we have maintained a continuous relationship with them.
Trump is not doing anything President Obama would not have done. Perhaps President Obama would have sent a harshly worded letter.
Trump is continuing the long US tradition of siding with the Saudis- a despicable nation ruled by terrorists.
6
Morally, the only apparent difference between the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and ISIS is that ISIS never hid their brutal crimes against journalists behind embassy doors, but took considerable pride in the public display their unbounded contempt for the 'infidel'. Then again, ISIS wanted to change the world so it would be more to their liking, while the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, where misogyny and greed hide behind holy scriptures, wants the world to stay exactly as it is.
6
Two things:
—the 110 Billion deal in American dollars was brokered by Jared Kushner. Assuming the 12% brokerage fee plus other grease money that are traditionally handed to a broker, imagine the amount that Trump’s son in law trousered.
—the killing of a journalist will never worry Trump. As a Putin lap dog, Trump is all for killing journalists that are critical of himself. It won’t be long now before his cry of fake news will escalate into violence against the press. This is what dictators do. Silence the critics and call it freedom of the press.
It can’t happen here.
Until it can.
Not to long ago, Russia was the enemy.
Now Russia is an ally and Trump supporters can wear in public tee-shirts that read “I’d rather be Russian than a Democrat!”
See? It can’t happen here.
Until it can.
The killing of journalists is just around the corner.
I’ve survived the Marcos dictatorship and witnessed how journalists are killed in broad daylight in the name of press freedom.
From what I am seeing, Trump will eventually start killing journalists as there will come a time when screaming “fake news” wouldn’t be enough to show how strong a dictator he is, given that his baseline is Putin.
Putin has poison, MBS has hacking, maybe Trump’s weapon of choice is old school death by a golf club ala Funny Games just so it could be thematic and on-brand.
It can’t happen here.
Until it can.
5
The Saudis are far worse than Iran. Saudi Arabia is a despotic dictatorship.
Iran is a democratic theocracy with too much influence by religious leaders. That is also true of Israel.
Israel's problems with Iran is due to Israel being an apartheid state, unwilling to either accept Palestinians as citizens of Israel or of their own independent sovereign republic.
Iran and Israel will eventually solve their problems, when the Palestinians become citizens with full civil rights, of either Palestine or Israel.
Saudi Arabia will never solve its problems, unless the entire world refuses to do business with them. We can get our oil elsewhere. And the United States should cease being the world's main merchant of death. There is no rational reason for selling the Saudis any weapons at all.
9
The gap between chanting "lock her up" (at home) and murdering journalists (abroad) seems to diminish fast. The "American carnage", your 45th talked about back then, it would no longer be absurd. It actually could become a reality. Quite some progress, only 2 years in office.
9
USA needs to walk the talk and simply and immediately terminate all arms sales to the Saudis and never resume since it only causes more war and death. There are plenty of productive actions to take in the USA ... for US people. Just do it. DJM
3
Perhaps Yeats best summarizes our current dilemma.
"We had fed the heart on fantasies
The heart's grown brutal from the fare."
33 year old dauphin of the Kingdom, MBS, together with his boy whisper, Kushner, both self-proclaimed strategic geniuses, have managed in less than two years to bring the Kingdom to the brink of what was once deemed impossible- bi-partisan sanctions,
MBS Aramco future IPO is dead and international investment is now drying up. The Yemen war is a disaster. His multi-billion US supplied force is stalemated by the Houthi's . In striking contrast to MBS and Kushner, the Houthi pre-military lifestyle is one of hardship and privation that prepares him for the rigors of combat eerily similar to the VC and like that war, air power has been oversold and the results underwhelming.
The following exchange at a hearing in 1967 with Rep. George Andrews is applicable to Yemen.
"Do you have enough planes?" asked Andrews
"Yes Sir."
"Do you have enough guns and ammunition."
"Yes Sir".
"Then why can't you whip that little country of NV?"
"Targets-targets Sir." replied the Colonel.
1
The Royal House of Saud is a nest of vipers that exports terrorism and murder globally, sometimes on a “grand scale” as currently in Yemen. MBS is one more of its unenlightened throwbacks to the “Dark Ages” for whom dissent of any kind is liable to the ultimate sanction.
For political and commercial reasons, America has found it expedient over the years to foster close ties to this despotic dynasty, but only Trump ( and Jared) has seemed so gushing in his enthusiasm. The fact that a Saudi hit squad sent by MBS in all likelihood transformed its consulate in Turkey into a scene out of “Dexter” last week, will probably not dim Trump’s enthusiasm one iota.
2
Well, I suspect if one needed a model of what is going on in Trump's head as to where he wants the US to go in the next twenty years, Saudi Arabia is probably the best.
A few golden "blue bloods" who are royalty by birth, running the economy to make them always rich and the rest always poor, and a lot of bowing and scraping of toadies.
Not my America, not while...have a vote.
Hugh Massengill, Eugene Oregon
4
Good lord. Are you blaming Trump for this? Saudis have been allies of the West since Lawrence of Arabia. You may not like that - but it did not start in 2016.
20
@Ambrose Rivers No one is blaming Trump for this murder. However, we can and are blaming him for his response to it. He doesn't care. Think about that, a reporter from the US is ambushed and murdered and Trump doesn't care. His silence is tacit acceptance. He is supposed to be a leader.
3
@Ambrose Rivers The Saudis would not have dared to do this under previous presidents. None of them were abhorrent thugs as Trump is. None of them declared the press to be "the enemy of the people." Yes Trump is to be blamed. Better yet, brought before the International Criminal Court and tried for complicity. Which would save us the bother of impeaching him!
3
It is Trump’s non response that is so horrifying!
He is too busy holding rallies to call Saudi ArabiaThe tragic and terrible mannner a legal resident of America and Washington Post reporter has been killed should shake everyone
in the world!
3
Mr. Cohen you have nailed it. I think your list of miss deeds is a little short. You brought up Wahhabi and that i think is the key to there treachery. In a country that is just know giving women the rite to drive is telling in it self. This regime is a lot more dangerous than it looks. It is trying to improve its image so as to do more dastardly deeds. To trust MDS will only bring more misery to the world. With the history of 15 citizens attacking US on 9/11 we need to remember that money is not everything that we have to live for. But with a president who seems to care more about himself and his money we will have to have a congress to control him in the next two years if he last that long.
4
It's not just Trump.
Every US administration has embraced Saudi Arabia and its government's repressive regime.
Arms sales have been ongoing, despite their use to murder civilians in Yemen. And why not, since successive US presidents have themselves had no qualms about overseeing the murder of civilians in the Middle East.
Museums and other cutural institutions have willingly accepted Saudi Arabia's money, ignoring that country's repression of its own women and its prohibition on any hint of unorthodox from its artists.
The outrage over the disappearance of a dissident journalist is justified, but its suddeness after years of tolerating even worse behavior by the Saudi regime is despicable hypocrisy.
There is no honor, no decency, when money and power are at stake. That goes equally for presidents, arms dealers, and museum directors.
3
The Trump administration has thrown in its lot with some bad actors in the Middle East to support its "Iran derangement syndrome." Both Israel and Saudi Arabia are greater threats to regional stability than Iran which has entered into international cooperation rejected by the US. While Trump's support for Israel is unshakeable he may be forced to take action against the Saudis because of the horror that occurred in Istanbul. "Fargo on the Bosporus" might trump "Davos in the Desert" so we should keep an eye on Steve Mnuchin to see if he cancels his reservations for Vision 2030. If he attends this extravaganza to plan the grandiose future of the Kingdom, he and M.B.S. might be the only people in the room, or the tent.
3
We have spent trillions on our military... Let's use it intelligently for once: Invade Saudi Arabia, Annex it as an American territory and take what we want. The people there - and here - will be better off. (They WILL great us as liberators this time!)
1
Here's the truth, whether we can stomach it or not:
In his feeble, maladaptive mind, Trump sees the murder of Mr. Khashoggi as an amazing stroke of luck. Trump sees it not as murder that deserves retaliation against the Saudi government, but as incredible leverage for his next negotiation or business deal.
Trump wants to keep this new ace up his sleeve so that he can gain the upper hand on the Saudis for his own selfish gains, not right the horrific wrong done to Mr. Khashoggi.
We have to quit trying to find Trump's soul. It's a fool's errand in more ways than one.
14
When will the United States say, “Enough! That’s the last straw,” about Saudi Arabia?
The answer to that question is “never,” as long as Donald Trump is president and the House of Saud has money to throw his way.
And, even without the Saudi bribes to his companies, Trump would not do anything significant to reign in the heavily marketed Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman with the cutesy nickname.
That’s because the Prince is a pal and co-strategist of Trump’s son-in-law.
At least, that’s what Jared Kushner -- the young man with the high-pitched voice and the chronic cashflow problems -- thinks or hopes.
If Trump won’t hold Saudi Arabia accountable for the grisly murder of Washington Post journalist, Jamal Khashoggi, you can bet that very few Republicans on Capitol Hill will find the courage to do so.
Maybe some Republican will call for an investigation to begin after the midterms. They need not bother the C.I.A. about it.
The same F.B.I. agents who handled the Kavanaugh follow-up investigation would be sufficient for Republican purposes.
6
Pretty strong stuff and he makes a very compelling argument. But don't bet on Don the Don lifting a finger. This will fade. Jamie Dimon will continue to be the face of the degenerative capitalist system. Steve Mnuchin will be the bagman, again. Congress will fade, too much money to be made in arms sales and underwriting fees for their FIRE bundlers. Find a list of those businesses who show up. Boycott if you can. Support those who pulled out. I might even start reading the Economist again. (boycotted them since 03 for shilling for the Iraqi invasion and occupation) Despite the ostensible prosperity these are dark time. Just remember, when there is no one else left they might come for you.
9
We have reached a nadir in American life where it is possible to imagine Trump saying not just on a hot mic but at a rally that he wishes he could do the same to certain CNN reporters. And getting the crowd to chant “hack him up.” It is terrifying.
19
What's the difference between Iran and Saudi Arabia in terms of religious extremism? Nothing.
Which nation does Israel align with and which does Israel want to destroy?
It's all about Israel, Israeli banks, pro-Israeli political donors and money, money, money.
Saudi Arabia is Israel's partner against Iran. That's all there is to this.
6
President Trumph's response to this outrageous Saudi crime should determine what kind of leader he is. None of his wild proclamations of making America great can be trusted unless he acts firmly. Arms sales and personal business interests should not influence his response.
4
Great commentary!Mr.Trump’s crass comments that we have to do business with Saudi Arabia because they spend billions on aircraft here and if we criticise them that money will go to other countries is beneath contempt.He is willing to do business with a country who murders American journalists and therefore sends the message that anything goes if it adds to our/his bottom line.This may be consistent with his moral depravity but it does not represent American values.
8
"One life! Mnuchin and Dimon might argue. What’s a single life beside vast economic interests? But sometimes a single life is all of civilization." So says Roger Cohen.
Roger, how dare you ascribe that sentiment to Jamie Dimon, who is by all accounts one of the most upstanding and ethical executives in America. The outcry over Khashoggi's apparent fate is justified, but your rhetoric is outrageous. You owe Mr. Dimon and your readers an apology.
3
I wonder if SA through his body out the airplane as it was heading back home. It’s really quite amazing how brazen their behavior is. I’d really like to know what did JK say about SA that so offended them.
4
The media dances around the true horror of this story. That the Trump family personally continues to make a fortune from Saudi money and that America's policies are now driven by Trump's personal greed. At best, Trump and his entire family belong in prison for the rest of their lives.
16
Perhaps by dying, brutally murdered, it appears (and we can only hope that the man's suffering was only a tiny flicker), Jamal Khashoggi will accomplish much more than the years of life ahead for him would have afforded. To become a rallying cry against the immoral and unspeakably cruel war in Yemen and by doing so bring the situation into the conscious awareness of those who, so far, have been unwilling to consider it an affront to them; to show the hubris and cruelty, and the use by the Saudis of their petrodollars to manipulate the perceptions of outsiders toward themselves; to view their broad-based efforts in the arts as a feint to ingratiate themselves into the coterie of men - industry titans, who have reached the lofty height of their careers and then 'dabble' in the arts - so that the Saudis may acquire those individuals acquiescence and misplaced respect; all these actions and more, outrages unspeakable and unknown outside the vermin-infested prisons in Cairo, may by this one blunt murder in the Saudi embassy in Turkey, finally change the seemingly unstoppable momentum of evil which is intent on overtaking us. Yes, Khashoggi may accomplish more by dying than he might have ever dreamed of accomplishing in a lifetime of work. All we might end with is Rest In Peace, Jamal, perhaps your blessed work is actually is begun.
6
I don't believe this murder would have happened while Obama was president or had Hillary Clinton become president. This murder occurred in large part because MBS knew the US President would turn a blind eye to it, and he has. And while Trump holds no dictators accountable for their brutality and inhumanity, Republicans and Trump supporters never hold Trump accountable for his. We have got to start talking about the amorality of his supporters, the cult-like culture of Trump's world. Where else would anyone possibly hear a leader say he could murder someone, in broad daylight in NYC, and lose no supporters? In a cult. That's where. It is time to stop trying to understand and make excuses for Trump supporters and start calling them out for either their responsibility here. As far as I'm concerned, Trump, and they, and Congressional Republicans, are complicit in Khashoggi's murder, because just as Trump has sent the message to the Saudis that they can do whatever they want because he has persona financial interests with them, so have Republicans and Trump supporters done the same for Trump because they are more interested in their want of an US v. Everyone Else world, and tax cuts for billionaires.
6
I remember the aftermath of 9/11. I remember our government scrambling to protect Saudis- while every American was grounded and not allowed to take flights the US government quickly protected Saudi citizens. I recall the newspapers, like this one, not saying a word about that. Our people lay dying and Saudi Princes and Princesses got private security to return home. Priorities!
I recall the media, including this publication, going out of its way to defend Saudi Arabia. These were radical extremists- not mainstream Saudis.
I recall the media, including this publication, pushing for the war in Iraq. Never a bad word about Saudi Arabia.
And now a single- ONE!- (foreign) reporter is killed by Saudi Arabia and the news media explodes into action. Saudi Arabia is dangerous! Remember what they did on 9/11? They are such a big sponsor of terrorism!
I get it- when it is one of your own you care- when it is someone that doesn't matter to you- you don't.
I find it telling that the news media didn't seem to care about Saudi Arabia when 2,977 regular American citizens were killed. But one Saudi journalist? Well that calls into question our entire relationship with Saudi Arabia.
Bravo! Perhaps with media pressure we can end our relationship with the terror state Saudi Arabia. Thank you Mr. Khashoggi for doing what 2,977 American citizens couldn't do- get the media to care.
10
@WillT26
...first, we have to end our relationship with the Republican Party...
4
@Remember in November,
Except for the fact that a Democratic majority in Congress would result in the importation of millions of dangerous people.
You didn't mention what I've read from several other sources: Saudis have sent many millions at Trump properties since the election.
8
In his heart of hearts Trump wishes most journalists who enter The White House would mysteriously vanish, except Fox News, of course.
The other Republican criminals will give their best "Tsk, Tsk" to this blatant act and move on to the next tax cut for their donors.
2
According to the Quran, only God has the right to judge who the true believer is.
That’s the theory!
In reality, MBS invokes the same prerogative…
If speaking the truth is the crime, we all are the criminals.
The clergy that stayed silenced after the crime was committed (against somebody trying to share the constructive advice with society) has betrayed the essence of faith.
If the clergy failed to remind the rulers to be faithful to the prescribed principles then the faith has been abandoned.
The death of the Saudi journalist has actually exposed the truth!
Some Correction: He got Ministers who were Harv,Oxford,etc...Top Generals WP.FW.grads Executed.Due to rushed Intern usage I omitted the word Executed,My bet.
Will Steven Mnuchin, Trump's Secretary of the Treasury, and Jamie Dimon. CEO of JPMorgan Chase, withdraw from the Saudi Future Investment Initiative Conference in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia in 10 days? Or will they will suffer the consequences of Trump's demented and inexplicable infatuation with Mohammed bin Salman, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia? A flood of international corporations have withdrawn from the Saudi Conference in response to the alleged assassination and dismemberment of a Washington Post journalist, a Saudi dissident, Jamal Khashoggi said to have occured in the Saudi Embassy in Istanbul last week.
One man's grievous death by a 15 men hit squad -- like Jamal Khashoggi's alleged murder in the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul, where he had gone to acquire documents relating to his Saudia Arabian divorce -- diminishes us all; we are all involved in mankind. How could President Trump have befriended America's enemies, sponsors of terrorism (Saudi Arabia, North Korea, China) and withdrawn from our 20th century allies (Canada, France, Germany, England? How can Trump forgive the Saudis for the Saudi 15 man hit squad that obliterated the WTC in 9/11/2001? Trump's people should withdraw from Prince MBS's "Davos in the Desert". Roger Cohen , are there "body parts on the Bosporus"? To president Trump, money walks and corpses don't talk. Or as Stalin said, "no man, no problem".
19
This is where money is talking and not morality. No surprise in Trump's corrupt world. This will stain both Mnuchin's and Dimon's reputations except that both are knee deep in corruption already.
More seriously, this is why the Emoluments Clause matters. Both Trump and Kushner have deep current ties with Saudi money which are influencing their responses which are only supposed to consider the best interests of the United States. Those American interests are not just financial but also as a leader of democracy.
On a more cynical note, how implausible is it that some Saudi whispered in the ear of either Trump or Kushner that they would take steps to silence a Muslim Saudi citizen who worked as a journalist for Bezos' Washington Post and had criticized Trump? Does anyone doubt that an enthusiastic yes would be forthcoming considering the constant criticism of journalists particularly at the Washington Post, New York Times, and CNN? If someone in the Trump administration gave a nod to this, not realizing how brutal the silencing would be, there is a tape somewhere about condoning what turned out to be a murder.
There will be consequences for crimes of omission or commission.
6
In yet another example showing that the rotten apple doesn't fall far from the toxic tree, Donald Jr. namesake of our anti-democracy President ... shared a post accusing Jamal Khashoggi of "Tooling around with Terrorists"
This was based on article and photo from the 80s showing Khashoggi with Osama bin Laden among others.
In true Trumpian fashion, Jr. failed to mention (or understand) that "the U.S. was backing Afghanistan’s Mujahideen at the time that Khashoggi wrote about them, in their fight against the Soviet Union.".
Trump will not only give Saudi Arabia a "blank check" to murder journalists and dissidents, they will help smear the name of the victims. And Lindsey Graham? He'll do what he is told to do. Just like the other Republicans on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee who are fully complicit in this adminstration's abandoment human rights.
9
A familiar recent headline: Trump and Kim ‘fell in love’ during denuclearisation talks, theresident declares.
Same problem with Trump-Putin and Trump-Muhammad bin Salman; the list does not end there.
Trump’s relationship with those three, especially Kim, sounds like "limerence" to me. National leaders do not ordinarily declare their infatuations as Trump did for Kim.
From Dorothy Tennov: Limerence is characterized by:
• Obsessive thinking about the object of your affection
• Irrationally positive evaluation of their attributes
That last one hits the nail on the head. Is Trump’s irrationally positive evaluation of the attributes of the Crown Prince what kept him from reacting to the disappearance of Khashoggi or was it it Trump’s “deals” with the Saudis to sell them a few billion dollars’ worth of arms?
Whatever the reason, we cannot rely on Trump.
Can we rely on the Congress?
If we cannot, our future becomes every grimmer.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Citizen US SE
10
Trump's foreign policy consists of three principles: money, money, money...show him the money, throw in a broadway show dinner...and Trump falls in love with whoever is behind Door 3.
6
The de facto ruler/king of Saudi Arabia, Prince Salman, appears to be a ruthless, brutal person. He ordered the killing & dismemberment of Journalist Khashoggi.
Salman may become very much like Saddam Hussein of Iraq. He squeezed and wrecked Yemen, induced a famine with millions of children in a most horrific state. He bombed Yemen with American weapons mercilessly. He wouldn't tolerate dissent. His brutality is comparable to that of Kim Jong Un, even that of Pol Pot.
As a civilized nation, it is incumbent upon the U.S. to curb his atrocities. The easiest is to cancel all arms deals to Saudi Arabia. Though president said he wouldn't, he should be pressured by both Democrats & Republicans in the Congress as well as outside Congress, effectively.
He should experience significant fear that his enemies everywhere would gang upon him. He should not be allowed to feel that he can do things with impunity.
3
'He who saves one life, saves the world'
3
It may sound a wee bit paranoid, but out there somewhere
in CIA files, surveillance tapes, recordings
we probably already have the proof of what really happened.
But nobody will pull it all together
because there is nothing to be gained,
in today's Major Petroleum Universe
by exposing more oil-rich absolute abuse again.
The temperature keeps going up
so just turn your thermostat down.
Burn oil.
2
Perhaps 10,000 Yemenis, mostly civilians, murdered by the Saudis. Millions displaced. Widespread malnutrition. More than a million cases of cholera. Nameless people: they don't count.
And back in Saudi, barbaric executions, zero human rights, women treated like cattle. Meanwhile the U.S. kept sending arms. The world's wealthiest (including Silicon Valley CEOs and media corporations like the NY Times) have been planning a love fest in Riyadh.
Now, one important person, a friend of important people in the media, gets murdered, and all of a sudden some of the corporations and media have sent their regrets and won't attend the party. But why were you planning to attend in the first place? No, Roger Cohen, I will not join you in applauding those corporations, nor the lobbying group that dropped the Saudis as clients. We've known for decades what barbarians the Saudis are. The genocidal war on Yemen has been going on since 2015.
What happened to Kashoggi is unspeakable. But what has been happening to millions of others--ordinary, unimportant people like me and the rest of your readers--is equally unspeakable. I'm glad Kashoggi's life counts. The rest of our lives should count, too.
6
These are the same people who financed two jet airliners to fly into the Twin Towers. Surprised? No. Perhaps Jared Kushner was.
As Roger points out, this "Fargo" on the Bosporus was enabled ultimately Trump and his complete anomie, and America's abdication as a world leader in human rights and the rule of law.
I do not desire more bloodshed. However, it perhaps would be a comeuppance for Trump and his followers if "Fargo" on the Bosporus turned into a powder kegs of the Balkans, and Trump world would blow up.
This Saudi murder is one big indicium that the world has really changed for the worse, but Fox News has not changed the pablum for the unlettered masses.
No one is steering the United States on a rational, considered course. Russia knows this. China knows this. And one day soon, they will make a move to prove the point that America is no longer in charge.
The market will fall. We may be in a serious military conflict. Then I predict that both parties will hastily show Trump the door in a startling reversal of fortune for everyone.
8
Chilling and appropriate to end with 9/11 and a Saudi hit squad. We know about all of the innocent civilians being killed in Yemen, and our hearts grieve.
Trump still attacks journalists at every rally as well as egging on his crowd's lynch chant of "Lock her up!" about a former political opponent who committed no crime and has had no due process.
There is a moral price to be paid when a president cozies up to dictators like Duterte, Putin, and MBS, all of whom have jailed or killed political opponents and critical journalists.
An innocent and courageous journalist and permanent resident of the United States who has children who are American citizens walks into a safe building with his fiancée waiting outside, is tortured, killed and dismembered within hours. This is a horror story. It would be a bloody movie.
Yet the United States president, business cronies and son-in-law, all with deep financial ties to Saudi Arabia, ignore it.
They also ignore the destruction of Hurricane Michael, the past week's precipitous drop in the stock market, and continue in their bubble of denial that ignores corruption, treason, rape and sexual assault, crimes against immigrant children, and other realities.
A collision with truth and American core values is coming. History remembers. So will voters.
11
If Mnuchin and Dimon don't withdraw from the Saudi investment conference in Dubai, they will suffer the consequences of Trump's demented infatuation with Mohammed bin Salman. One man's death by a 15 men hit squad -- like Jamal Khashoggi's assassination and dismemberment in the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul -- diminishes us all. How could Trump forgive the Saudis for the Saudi 15 man hit squad that obliterated the WTC in 9/11/2001? Trump's people, those who will attend the Dubai
Davos in the Desert conference despite "body parts on the Bosporus" don't know that the bell tolls for all of them, too. Money walks, corpses talk.
3
Roger Cohen has some valid points to make. The problem is, his reflexive attacks on the Trump administration would lead one to believe that current U.S. policy toward Saudi Arabia is Donald Trump's invention, which is absurd. Let's review the attitude of the previous administrations of Obama, Bush, Clinton, and Bush Sr.- can you seriously put a playing card between the policies of any of them, toward Saudi Arabia? It doesn't make sense to lump this issue in with Trump's negotiations with North Korea - would Roger Cohen prefer nuclear war on the Korean peninsula? There aren't many points on which Roger Cohen and a conservative Evangelical like myself are going to agree - but our policy toward Saudi Arabia could, at least in theory, be one of them - but not if it becomes yet another exercise in Trump-bashing. If that's what NYT columnists want to do, well, okay, I'll sit in my corner, you sit in yours. Still, the problems we have with Saudi Arabia and its government, and Iran and its government, are deep, long-lasting, extend beyond the specifics of any one Presidential administration, and are worthy of serious reconsideration in the case of Saudi Arabia. Really fixing anything international requires that it be removed from the boxing match between Democrats and Republicans.
4
@Tom Wolpert
The point is that Trump is afraid to challenge them and punish them for this atrocity.
4
@Tom Wolpert
Nice sentiment at the end. Let’s hope that they are not empty words.
Trump is our President now and he has the power to address and change our relationship with the Saudis. So your history lesson is not relevant.
An amoral lover of mammon is not likely to change our relationship for the better.
4
Two points concerning the big weapons agreements with Saudi Arabia:
1. They are not contracts, but merely "letters of intent", not quite legally binding.
2. The Saudis could not easily switch to Russian or Chinese hardware/software, since it would not be compatible with existing systems. Think of US electric equipment: 110 volt/60 cycle, compared to European 220 volt/100 cycle.
6
All very true. One life matters a lot and the current U.S. administration has no conscience. However, back in 1989 there was this massacre in Tienanmen Square in Bejing. Widely condemned, everyone continued to trade with China and all was quickly forgotten. Repressive regimes do these things and capitalism soldiers on.
12
@Henry's boy
There are also weekly massacres on the border between Gaza and Israel which don't seem to deter the US's support for Israel.
1
It's not looking too good; neither the fate of Jamal Khashoggi, or the hope that this administration will take earnest steps in reprimanding Saudi Arabia for what is increasingly looking like a hit job...even though Mr. Khashoggi is a U.S. citizen.
And in spite of Donald Trump's bluster about America (and ostensibly Americans) first, it looks like he's going to let this one pass.
All one has to do is remember all the pomp and glitz with which he was received on his first visit to the Saudi Kingdom and the multi-billion dollar arms deal to know which way this president is turning.
It makes no difference to him that U.S. warplanes are now being used to bomb the living daylights out of Yemeni citizens, even women and children; and that hospitals are being targeted with brutal abandon.
But sadly, this should surprise no one.
Under this administration, the U.S. has long since relinquished its mantle of being a shining light of hope and Democracy by becoming a morass of private interests fueled by the promises of profiteering.
If we are to ever find out what happened to Jamal Khashoggi, it won't be by the Americans or the Saudis.
And it won't be pretty.
24
Truer words were never spoken...beyond himself and money Trump has no serious issues.
3
Don’t forget, Trump designated Jared to cozy up to MBS and achieve Mid-East peace. Meantime, there is a dearth of experienced, savvy State Dept. diplomats in many of that region’s capitals.
And Trump, the great negotiator, has already taken the cancellation of fighter jets for SA off the table. Which leaves one the question, what, exactly, is America’s leverage in the Khashoggi mystery? Beyond “please, pretty please,” not much.
22
@PaulB67
Saudis are spending millions at Trump properties!
2
And there it is,a superb summation in one sentence,words which should be written in 50 foot high letters and placed on the National Mall..."sometimes a single life is all of civilization.." ...it has never been truer or more apt than in this case.I hope that sentence is quoted anytime this darkest and foulest of chapters in American history is written.Thank you Mr.Cohen.
32
Being in full concurrence with your plea for full disclosure on Khashoggi's fate, Trump does not seem in any hurry to try to find out what happened, a deep dagger in U.S.'s morals, and the need to set things straight and punish the perpetrator(s). Human rights are, once again, being trampled upon by a heartless scoundrel in the Oval Office, and giving tacit permission to other dictators to do likewise. But allowing the killing and dismembering of another human being, just because of his reporting of Salman's cruelty is a step too far... and making Trump absolutely liable of complicity. Awful!
28
Another mess that the President and his administration don't know how to handle on behalf of the nation. What we can be sure of, is that Jared has already cut his deals on behalf of the family with the Prince and the money will continue to flow in their direction.
17
A question: Do Donald Trump or Jared Kushner or do any of their businesses have financial or other economic interests in Saudi Arabia or with Saudi Arabians? My suspicions are that whatever else might be motivating Trump and Kushner, their inability to separate their private interests from their public duty provides most of the explanation for the fact that bluster and bloviation are substituting for action in this matter.
26
Absent this one murdered and dismembered journalist, everything the Saudis have done, everything- the devastating war in Yemen, the beheading of dissidents, the flogging of women activist, has been going on throughout our relationship with them. Our former president, a Nobel Peace laureate, had a very cozy relationship with the Saudis, selling them billions in arms and refueling their bombers on the way to Yemen to drop bombs on civilians. Please, let's not pretend that all this started with Trump. Once again, Trump has thrown off any pretense of what we are as a country and reveals our ugly, hypocrisy. Don't expect the Senate or anyone else to do anything about one murdered journalist. The money the Saudis will funnel into their campaign coffers through lobbyist and think tanks and all the other ways dark money goes into bribing our politicians will eventually shut this scandal down. In fact, you just had Trump being brutally honest about our hypocrisy by saying there is no way this will affect our relationship with the Saudis because they just gave us $112 billion for our weapons. The Democrats and some Republicans may make some noise about this murder until their donors get their minds right on the issue.
22
''...But sometimes a single life is all of civilization.'' - Aye, tis'.
I believe there was a declaration a couple of centuries ago that read as : '' We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness ...''
Put aside that it took a few amendments (and a century or so) to include humans of color and then women to achieve some semblance of equal status, but now the same government by the people, of the people, and for the people deals with monarchs, dictators, tyrants, and strongmen all over the world that abide by their own set of made up rules.
There is one simple rule, and that is no person should be elevated in station above another, simply by birth rite, nor by undemocratic means. If we were to go one step further and to completely separate religion from state everywhere, then strife would considerably diminish. (but that is a whole other argument)
There will be those that argue to open up economic agreements between the United States and said undemocratic regimes has fostered and garnered more human rights than ever before.
Tell that to the fiance of Mr. Khashoggi or any other that has become victim, or disappeared from the face of the earth.
''...But sometimes a single life is all of civilization.''
11
''...But sometimes a single life is all of civilization.'' - Aye, tis'.
I believe there was a declaration a couple of centuries ago that read as : '' We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness ...''
Put aside that it took a few amendments (and a century or so) to include humans of color and then women to achieve some semblance of equal status, but now the same government by the people, of the people, and for the people deals with monarchs, dictators, tyrants, and strongmen all over the world that abide by their own set of made up rules.
There is one simple rule, and that is no person should be elevated in station above another, simply by birth rite, nor by undemocratic means. If we were to go one step further and to completely separate religion from state everywhere, then strife would considerably diminish. (but that is a whole other argument)
There will be those that argue to open up economic agreements between the United States and said undemocratic regimes has fostered and garnered more human rights than ever before.
Tell that to the fiance of Mr. Khashoggi or any other that has become victim, or disappeared from the face of the earth.
''...But sometimes a single life is all of civilization.''
3
In response, Trump said that our relationship with Saudi Arabia was "excellent," and further, that we shouldn't do anything to jeopardize the billion dollar arms deal with them. What an incredible response! In other words, murder and assassination of members of the press by Saudi Arabia are okay as long as it is profitable for the U.S. If anyone ever doubted that Trump is a sociopath, this should remove all doubts.
45
Saudi Arabia has shown their colours longtime ago. The Wahhabi sect is ruthless.The West has been excessively complacent and even willing to help extend its influence that has given us Al-Qaeda, Al-Nusra, Hay’at Tahrir Al-Sham mostly in Syria plus that Caliphate in Syria/Iraq. If not by West support no one in the Middle East would have weapons to impose disorder, violence and destruction in the magnitude we have witnessed in the near past. And in the present moment besides the dubious expansion of Turkey in Syria we clearly see the same pattern evolving in Idlib... with still West acquiescence.
21
Putin, MBS, al-Sisi, Kim Jong Un, Xi, Duterte, and Trump. If the GOP continues to control both bodies of Congress after the midterms, the U.S. will be no better than the company Trump admires to be. Judging from the frothing faces at Trump's rallies, I don't think they would mind a Trump autocracy. Mitch McConnell wouldn't care if that keeps him in power. Not possible? Think again.
44
"It’s time to call in every Saudi chip...They should be stopped until..." Who is the "They" that will plan, carry out and assess, both during and afterward, the implications and outcomes of the suggested changed policy? The very policymakers, elected and selected, from the President, down, and in every other direction, who operate with impunity regarding any types, levels, and qualities of the temporary and more permanent harmful outcomes of their words and deeds? Daily. In so many areas. Locally. Regionally. Nationally. Globally. I don't remember one example of a current policymaker who publically acknowledged being personally accountable, responsible, for supporting a policy whose processes and outcomes were harmful to selected people. To American traditions and legacies. To values and norms which are the underpinnings, in a democracy, for mutual trust. Overt behavior which is critical in order to risk taking a chance on equitably sharing limited human and nonhuman resources for ALL.Unlocking fragile, vulnerable menschlichkeit from the mantrafied certitudes of alt-fact, "lock her/him/them up," from manipulating, marginalizing, dehumanizing, excluding, daily violating, "unaccountables." Wait for THEM to DO IT? To promote and enable mutual civility.Respect and caringness. Amongst, and between, kin, friends, neighbors as well as strangers.Who, as a person, with a mandated, delineated, role and not as a political party label, will deliver US from our WE-THEY ummenschlichkeit?
1
The Saudi regime is and has been one of the most dangerous for decades. Saudi Arabia despite its oil wealth is centuries behind in the way it treats its people. Time for the civilized world including the US to re-examine the value of alliances with ruthless Saudi autocrats, the latest being MSB, all of whom are fueled by extremist religious beliefs that have given rise to terrorism and have no place in modern society.
17
@JJ - After the Kavanaugh debacle, it is up for debate whether the current American regime should include itself as being part of the "civilized world".
7
If we accept murder offshore in consideration of oil and 110 billion dollars, how much will it cost for such U.S. acceptance within our borders? It is just a matter of time.
31
@Ken I'm sure it has already occurred. We are a nation devoid of morals at the highest levels, as well as the lowest.
3
@NLL I wish I didn't have to agree.
I agree with you completely and very much like your recital of "the price of Trump’s values-free foreign policy." I call it policy without moral conscience. You write that those who dismiss the murder of Khashoggi might argue, "What's a single life beside vast economic interests?" You reply: "But sometimes a single life is all of civilization." I understand that in the sense that the extreme brutality toward a single person shows us a microcosm of the rage. hatred and violence that a person with the power of a dictator can perpetrate on a massive scale in, say, Yemen. So, in stark naked reality, the murder of Khashoggi stands for what has been done to thousands. If this is indeed what happened, it is a severe threat to anyone who has ever criticized the Saudi regime. And if they will do that their embassy in Turkey, what would they do in their embassy in the US or Canada? Are we expected to put up with this too, or with Russia's recent poisoning in the UK? Amazing what money will buy if Trump is president.
20
The United States is definitely backing the wrong horse in its steadfast support of Saudi Arabia when Washington should be betting on Iran instead ?
Why ? There is enough evidence to demonstrate the Iranian population's exasperation with their regime's corrupt and obscurantist nature. Iranians are biting at the bit to rejoin the Western world, whereas all I can see in most Arab nations is internecine and sectarian violence in the wake of the Arab 'spring'.
If Trump could graduate beyong checkers to chess, he would back democratic factions in Iran in order to prepare an eventually emancipated Iranian nation for new age potentially less hostile towards America.
In contrast, his regime's indulgence towards the House of Saud as evidenced by his lukewarm condemnation of Riyadh's cloak and dagger policing methods will leave lasting scars for the Arab peoples who are deemed impervious to the rule of law.
8
Trump will offer, at best, vague bafflegab on the subject. One or two GOP members will mutter ominously. Lindsey Graham may well throw one of his spluttering hissy fits (which he’ll typically walk back within a week or two).
But the White House will do nothing. The Saudi regime will continue to behead more people than ISIS, imprison and murder dissidents, viciously repress any perceived political prisoners, and practice institutional misogyny as state policy.
Saudi money and oil have made them untouchable. Loans to and investments in US corporations, especially those owned buy or associated with Trump corporations give them a free pass.
Donald Trump probably couldn’t get away with shooting someone down in cold blood on 5th Avenue. But a member of the Saudi Royal Family undoubtedly could.
31
It is easy enough to criticize Trump for what he does. But how can you criticize him for being allied with a country that may have committed murder even though there is no evidence that the murder even happened?
@Al
Have you conveniently forgotten that 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 were citizens of Saudi Arabia? That Osama bin Laden, the founder of Al Qaeda & planner of the 9/11 attacks, was Saudi? That the House of Saud is still closely aligned with the ultra conservative & vicious Wahhabi branch of Islam?
There is video evidence of Jamal Khashoggi entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul. There is no video evidence of his exiting the consulate.
If the Saudis had proof that Khashoggi is still alive, surely they would show it to the world. Instead, they take their cue from our greedy & mendacious president. They're attempting to "wait it out", in hopes that the furor will die down. It's worked for Trump. Let's see if it works for the Saudis.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/03/opinion/saudi-arabia-monarchy-wahhabi...
1
I must admit that I am conflicted about Trump's response to this vicious and horrifying act. In a real sense, his blunt callousness and complete disregard for a man's likely murder and dismemberment is terrifying and a testament to his character as a human being. On the other hand, his callousness is almost refreshing; he is simply revealing what past American administrations have always done - turn a blind eye when atrocities get in the way of US economic and security interests. Trump is just too insensitive to any kind of decency to even pretend that Khashoggi's murder matters. He has no interest in playing this political game. The game does matter; it does save lives and restrain US allies who realize that they invite PR problems for themselves when they act too brutally; with Trump, they don't have that worry. In the same way, Trump's blatant attacks on the Palestinians have also revealed, unequivocally, the profound US bias in favour of Israel. Again, to anyone with eyes, this prejudice was absolutely obvious, but Trump's bluntness and outright bigotry have left no doubts as to where the US stands and the kind of ethnonationalist state that Israel is. In these senses, by tearing down the illusions that Americans like to perpetuate about their foreign policy, Trump - in all of his boorishness and viciousness - may actually be doing the world a favour.
4
Of course, Jamie Dimon is currently still attending. He didn't have a conscience about the 2008 financial crisis, so it will be interesting to see if he gets one now.
32
How soon our government forgets 9/11, and thousands of lives that were lost, and those who committed that brutally were from Saudi Arabia. Instead, Iraq was destroyed, and hundreds of thousands of innocent lives were lost. Now, this administration, has sold massive amount of military supplies to Saudi Arabia, knowing that they are used to kill innocent people In Yemen. The only thing Trump and his administration see is money and power, and human rights are not of any consideration. As far as Trump is considered, Mr. Khashoggi is just another journalist, and not worth damaging His relationship with the Saudi prince.
22
"A 15 man Saudi hit squad" is only 4 shy of the 911 crew. Once again American's safety is secondary to the economic ties that Saudi oil demands allegiance to. I, for one, am sick and tired of Saudi business interests trumping American lives.
21
America, every day, in every way, we are losing our collective soul. Trump is leading alright, and it is to a place none of us want to be, whether too many of us are yet to recognize that or not. Either we have a national epiphany, and I do mean national, or else.
47
Trump's Saudi infatuation?
I recall just a few weeks ago Tom Friedman and the rest of the NYT was quite infatuated with MBS.
Obama got on well with the Saudis. Dubya considered the Saudi guy (Bandar) to be like a brother, joking about "Bandar Bush."
Our government has been infatuated with and sucking up to the petro-dollar fountain of Saudis since the end of the Oil Embargo in 1974, when the deal was made.
If it is wrong, it is not because Trump just dreamed it up.
23
But shouldn't that be the point, Mark? So, the Grand Ol' Pushover at Penn Ave that loves to pretend he's the anti-establishment isolationist by default campaign decree, continues to show his domestic impotence and inability to translate any new ideas by pretending he actually knows something about FP. Outside of endless damage control, this regime does NOTHING different in its workings around the globe, because it doesn't have a clue what TO DO.
4
I suppose it would be symbolic if the US. imposed a sanction against the Saudis. But, sadly, whatever action we take will be temporary or never enforced. Until the day comes when America no longer needs Saudi oil - we have switched to other fuels, maybe even renewable fuels! - we will continue to sell them technology and weapons. It is difficult thinking of America as making money selling weapons used to kill human beings - like the people in Yemen. America, the arms dealer, is a tragic image. But, reality is we have been and will continue to provide weapons to the Saudis. Whether it is one dear reporter or thousands in Yemen America is not ready to place any permanent sanctions against the Saudis - the President certainly won't, and Congress will not either.
26
@Rev Wayne - Exactly as you say. As concerns renewable, consider recent disasters:
1) Natural gas explosions in Andover and Lawrence MA
2) Total destruction in the Florida panhandle.
Heating and cooling systems almost totally dependent on fossil fuel need to be replaced. There are ready alternatives but immediately after the MA disaster the focus was on - fix the natural gas pipeline system.
The alternatives would be to move on to a combination of heat-pump technologies and solid-waste incineration, both dominant here in Sweden and Denmark.
By strange coincidence, one place in Florida has gone over to the latter. West Palm Beach FL, just a stone's throw from Trump's palace, called in Danish Babcock & Wilcox and said, give us state of the art solid-waste incineration, and B & W did, the first in the USA (pic at my blog)
And, while the Panhandle is being rebuilt, why not do as Sweden does, put all utility lines underground.
Only-NeverInSweden.blogspot.com
Citizen US SE
31
@Rev Wayne Spend some time looking up import data. The US uses virtually no Saudi oil. Most of it goes to our European allies, who refuse to spend money to defend themselves and whine when US presidents (of whom Trump is just the latest in a long line to do so ) point that out. Time for the Europeans to step up to their responsibilities and protect their own interests.
1
What exactly do America's allies have to spend money on for their own defense? They are not perpetual war machines like the United States.
Major beneficiaries of that machine are not Germany and England, who are warring with nobody, but Saudi Arabia and Israel, both of whom are killing civilians with impunity.
Tunnel vision about Trump and the GOP is welcoming the destruction of any particle of democatic values that still remain in some parts of the world.
5
The first piece of legislation for our Liberal government was a pledge to honour our ethics and morals in our international relations. We were condemned first by China and at the Asian summit by the Philippines and the USA and last month by the Saudis and as the Guardian reported we stand alone. Russia long ago barred our Minister of Foreign Affairs.
Many of us if not most of us no longer regard the USA as trustworthy and are ashamed we ever allowed ourselves to become totally a part of the American economy.
When the Saudis got on the planes back to Arabia some of us said good bye to friends, students and our favourite doctors but we knew there would be a price to pay for our principles.
When Ted Cruz called the Democrats Socialists on Thursday I thought immediately of the Martin Niemoller poem first they Came for the Socialists and then I remembered that Cruz was a brilliant scholar and a top notch hate monger and I wondered if when he said those words with the hatred he so often displays if he didn't think of the Niemoller poem when he said them.
34
President Obama thought there should be a pox on both Saudi Arabia and Iran, especially since we are no longer reliant on the oil of either.
We should actively be working against both Iran and Saudi Arabia instead of picking sides.
49
@Maurie Beck
The Iranians suffer under their government - fundamentally they are good people, though. The Saudis love their government. Immigration into that state is growing, sadly. In Iran I'm only disgusted by the elite. In Saudi by everything.
Traveling to either? Never.
3
@Maurie Beck That would flout the wishes of the 51st State and its 75 Senators.
1
Roger,
Congress needs to step up and cut the Saudis off completely. America's romance with this savage royal family has gone on for far too long. For far too long the media has spread misinformation about the House of Saud, painting them as benevolent monarch even after 9-11 and well past ISIS.
These people are thugs. We know Trump likes strongmen, or thugs. When news first broke about Mr. Khashoggi's disappearance, I couldn't help but think back to that erie video of Trump's saber dance with the Saudi Royal family, or the video of that orb. I wish I could say they put a hex on Trump and that's the explanation for his overt resistance to punish the Saudis even if it turns out the murder was ordered by the Crown Prince. He doesn't want to lose the money from the deals he made with them.
Trump has no sense of propriety. To him, there's no such thing as dirty money. There's also no such thing as honor or compassion - only the bottom line.
For once, let's hope the bi-partisan disgust on Capitol Hill translates into action and Trump's arms deals with Saudi Arabia are canceled. It would also be a good thing if they were also forced to divest themselves of the tech investments they've made in Silicon Valley in recent years.
Trump's effect on the world has been to normalize the unfathomable. RIP, Jamal Khashoggi!
===
Things Trump did while you weren't looking
https://wp.me/p2KJ3H-2ZW
155
@Rima Regas - Rima, well chosen word, "romance". I have just filed a comment employing the word/psychological concept "limerance" to describe Trump's relationship with at least three dictators whom I need not name.
Larry L.
1
One stark difference between Iran and Saudi Arabia is that Iran is the product of a great civilization thousands of years old, and ironically, they have always been a thorn in the side of the West, from the Greeks to the Romans, to the present. The Saudis on the other hand, are the Beverly Hillbillies of the Middle East; they fell into oil and everything of value there has been imported.
It is telling that Bin Salman was educated entirely within Saudi Arabia, unlike many of his more worldly ministers. Had his life not been so pampered and so cloistered, he would have never committed such a horrendous blunder, but he is so immersed in Saudi culture that butchering a critic seems perfectly reasonable. Even now, he's probably scratching his head over the uproar.
545
@stan continople, you're right, except that Persia, while in military conflict with Greece and Rome, was a contributor to and beneficiary of their civilizations. "Thorn" is a one-sided description; they deserve better.
37
@stan continople Middle East dictators don't need the green light from Trump to feel emboldened. They have been stealing, torturing, and murdering with relentless abandon for over 50 years. Maybe Cohen should direct his anger towards fellow pundit Thomas Friedman. Friedman has to be the most gullible foreign correspondent of all time. No one sang the praises of MBS more in these pages. Saudi Arabia is now being ruled by a guy who recently bought, on impulse, a $550 million yacht. Dropped another $450 million for a Renaissance painting. Where did such a young man come up with that kind of cash? Is this the sort of "thinking' that impresses Friedman? The young prince is simply consolidating his position for the throne & eliminating perceived threats. I wish America journalists would stop peddling articles that sell the Saudi narrative & ask some tough questions. MBS claims to be a reformer but leads a life which is the envy of ultra rich. MBS is a product of the same system he purports to loathe. MBS is as greedy & corrupt as they come. It will be interesting to see how much Saudi money has gone into buying the U.S. press, academia & government officials to sing the virtues of this Saudi boy-wonder. Saudi Arabia has always been accommodating to the gullible US & foreign press. Ruthless with anyone else who threatens their interests. It's a delicate balancing act dealing with our good friends the Saudi's. There're not many good options in this region.
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Trump shares with Saudi Arabia the Iran Derangement Syndrome, to the point that he seems to want credit for (supposedly) standing with demonstrators against the Iranian government. But, naturally, Trump does not stand with dissenters in Russia, Turkey, Egypt, the Philippines... Oh, and he and Kim Jong Un, in Trump's telling, fell in love. When it comes to Saudi Arabia, not only does Trump not care what political opponents the authorities kill, he also doesn't mind how many Yemeni civilian lives are being lost to the ruthless Saudi campaign there, conducted with American support.
It is long past time for Congress to act - beyond tepid words of concern. Want responsible governance? Vote Democratic next month.
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The Democrats had no problem supporting Bush's wars or Obama's continuation and enlargement of them. Nor have they ever expressed any concern for the government's embrace of repressive regimes like the Saudis'.
The Democrats may dial back a few of the more egregious injustices inflicted by the GOP on the US working class. But don't count on them as a party devoted to peace or worldwide human rights.
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I'm not sure why this political assassination should turn our heads more than any of the others. It's presumed stylized barbarity can't be the reason alone for the uproar. Perhaps it's because the principals, in different ways, appealed for a time to our vanity since they seemed so western and modern, hung out with celebrities and retired pols. Very modern and up to date for a supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood and a Wahhabist. But the Saudi's human rights record has long been abysmal. That they operate like gangsters is well known. We will continue to put up with them for the same reasons we always have once the wave of phony outrage subsides.
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@Frunobulax
The dead man was on the WaPo's payroll.
So this dead journalist, say, matters more than the female journalist, reported raped and killed earlier this week.
I'm with you on the "surprised? why is this news?" angle. You get in bed with animals, you best just hope for a case of fleas...
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Roger, Sovereign states, be they Saudia Arabia, China, Russia, or our own America, have the power, military, or by means of assassination, to project that power, and to do so no matter the morality, the wickedness, the brutality, or the shamelessness of the action. States and nations are reflections of their rulers, be they dictators, autocrats, kings, emperors, or other cretins that sometimes pretend to be duly elected or chosen by the populace.
Journalists or any critics of these regimes espouse their criticism at their own mortal risk. They have been warned. Values like righteousness or doing the “right thing,” are not an iota of the equation. In each case, the ruler’s response is brutality, and oftentimes with fatal consequences.
That Donald Trump will not condemn the killing of journalists largely reflects his own desires to eliminate the “free press” and emulate his fellow dictators. Trumpism is no different than any other “ism” in its disdain for critics and particularly journalists, be it communism, or fascism. Journalists and the free press are, to these autocratic Trumpists, enemies of the state, to be quelled, crunched, and, if not silenced, eradicated.
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The credit for developing Trumps Talent for smearing truth as falsehood and for blatantly and strongly defending lies actually goes to his mentor Roy Cohen.
In this world there is no morality, truth, decency or trust. The only thing that matters is money and power. Such values make a mockery of the values taught by all religions and cultures. The naïveté and ignorance of his supporters makes them believe that these traditional values are not worth anything. However in their shortsightedness they fail to see the detrimental long term effects of such a policy whether to our standing in the world or to climate and earth.
The reference of killing a single human in injustice akin to killing of humanity can be traced to a verse in the Quran.
However for Trump and his supporters all that matters is money. What’s one journalists life worth who dared to stand up to tyranny and dictatorship.
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@Tinku
However for Trump and his supporters all that matters is money. What’s one journalists life worth who dared to stand up to tyranny and dictatorship.
--------
Come now...
Most "journalists" are from the well-fed classes, and they contribute to the ascendency of such regimes that ultimately turn on them. Somebody was feeding this man well... and he later paid for it with his life. Maybe he should not have fed so well at the trough?
Or trusted his enemies?
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@midway
I see neither purpose nor logic in your smearing a journalist who apparently gave his life in defending humanistic values against repression.
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But Roger: Crown Prince MBS may have his flaws, including being a cold- blooded murderer,as currently documented. He has however, been VERY NICE to our Boy King, and to Jared as well. Remember that cool picture with the crystal ball/globe? Why should a bit of slaughter and dismemberment IN AN EMBASSY come between friends? A little perspective, please.
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@Richard Williams MD
And don't forget the huge gold necklace!
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Why wait until paragraph 12 to point out "... it is impossible to argue that Iran has inflicted more harm on American interests than Saudi Arabia has."? It has been 38 years since the Iran hostage crisis (in which all hostages were returned safely). The failure by multiple administrations to engage Iran rather than punish them with economic sanctions (which is really war) has lead us to dark alley in the Middle East.
Sadly with the current administration, things aren't going to get any better.
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@Steve Thanks for pointing that out. I usually lead wit the bete noir status of Iran. Went a different way this time. But yeah, why do we pummel Iran when the real enemy is SA? Answer; it is easy and we like easy here.
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@Steve it has been 65 years since the USA overthrow the democratically elected government of Iran. Without that there would not have been the hostages.
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“Decency dies. Culture collapses. “
Yes . Murder crosses a very distinct boundary.
Like crossing the river Styx metaphorically. Little by little, step by step, we enter the twilight zone that humanity seems to be drawn to, at regular intervals, like moths to flames.
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''...But sometimes a single life is all of civilization.'' - Aye, tis'.
I believe there was a declaration a couple of centuries ago that read as : '' We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness ...''
Put aside that it took a few amendments (and a century or so) to include humans of color and then women to achieve some semblance of equal status, but now the same government by the people, of the people, and for the people deals with monarchs, dictators, tyrants, and strongmen all over the world that abide by their own set of made up rules.
There is one simple rule, and that is no person should be elevated in station above another, simply by birth rite, nor by undemocratic means. If we were to go one step further and to completely separate religion from state everywhere, then strife would considerably diminish. (but that is a whole other argument)
There will be those that argue to open up economic agreements between the United States and said undemocratic regimes has fostered and garnered more human rights than ever before.
Tell that to the fiance of Mr. Khashoggi or any other that has become victim, or disappeared from the face of the earth.
''...But sometimes a single life is all of civilization.''
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The brazenness of this act has shocked even the most passive armchair pacifist observer into outrage. Let’s hope we can capitalize on this energy to effect positive change in the world, starting with our own President (and his Senior advisor son-in-law), and removing Saudi Arabia from the honor list of civilized nations.
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I believe there is a strong case to be made for releasing Turkey's video and audio recordings to the public, so the American people can learn via their own eyes and ears who and what they are dealing with.
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@A. Stanton
Who WE are dealing with?
This is not our fight, man.
Will you never learn?
Let private security forces, not the US government, puzzle this one out. American taxpayers do not care.
@A. Stanton
Perhaps release some still shots from the video, but nothing from the audio. Khashoggi's loved ones have suffered enough.
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@A. StantonThey also need to be shown the modus operandi of executions in the public square whivh of course is their sovereign right.
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"Sometimes a single life is all of civilization."
Bravo, Mr.Cohen. I fear we as a country have lost touch with what creates a civilized society, and our constitutional democracy. The United States, despite its flaws and past mistakes, has always stood for human rights and the rule of law. Trump has clearly signaled that this is no longer our guiding set of principles, simply what is going to profit him and his oligarch overlords the most. It's springtime for dictators, autocrats, and murderous tyrants in Trump's world,as long as they buy our arms and his condos and hotel rooms. When is the revulsion going to set in, America? Hopefully, November 6.
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@Michele
Borrow your kids' new Kevlar backpacks when you go to the polls this November. The atmosphere in the United States seems to be so electric-- Trump's leniency towards dictators' murderous ways could translate to spontaneous and government-inspired violence during the next midterm elections. I fear the worst.
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Beautifully stated Mr. Cohen. Republicans, led by this charlatan of a president, will sell their mothers for a pouch of fool's gold. Having worked in Saudi I came to know alot about them and their thought process. If they suspect that they can get away with an inch, they'll grab a foot. Their mercurial Crown Prince is admired by Trump so he did as he wished knowing there would be no dire consequences. Not that sleeping with the devil is something new to US foreign policy makers.
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And didn’t Trump just claim that with US support the Saudi government would last one month.
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Sounds like the Saudis are going to have to spend a bit more on their advertising budget to keep the appropriate media quiet on really how the they are not our friends. The media has been complacent barely covering the worlds largest humanitarian disaster in. Yemen, where the Saudis are committing genocide and war crimes with the help of our weapons and air support. Millions in Yemen may die of starvation in the coming month, yet there is barely an outcry in the US.
The latest chopping up of a journalist , is in keeping with their Wahhabist radical Islam tradition. They are the largest funders of terrorism in the world. Who would of guessed that after 9/11 where 15 of 19 hijackers were Saudis that we would become even closer as allies. How many Americans have been killed by Saudi backed jihadists? It has taken the killing of a journalist to pull back the curtain a tiny bit on this evil regime. But sadly it will be business as usual again in a few weeks, because they control those with power in the US with their money.
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@steve Thanks for that. Keep pounding away that SA brought down the towers, not Iran, not Yemen and not Iraq.
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@steve
Thanks Bushie and family and fans! Remember: these people are still in power in Washington!! Drain that swamp!!!
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Saudi Arabia imprisons countless activists. And it executes a few. Most of the state-sponsored violence goes unreported. But a female political activist who was a candidate for beheading was big news, though her five compatriots were ignored. Now we see a similar pattern with a controversial journalist. The media can't let go of the Khashoggi story largely because it involves one of their own.
Women facing beheading and journalists who appear to have been murdered are the top of the news. Nobody else matters much.
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@michjas
What's your point? What do you think we should care about? All of them? None of them? N
News is always selective, but human brains are more moved to action by identifying personally with one symbolic victim, rather than distantly to many.
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According to the Quran, only God has the right to judge who the true believer is.
That’s the theory!
In reality, MSB invokes the same prerogative…
If speaking the truth is the crime, we all are the criminals.
The clergy that stays silenced after the crime was committed (against somebody trying to share the constructive advice with society) has betrayed the essence of faith.
If the clergy failed to remind the rulers to be faithful to the prescribed principles then the faith has been abandoned.
The death of the Saudi journalist has actually exposed the truth!
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I wonder how many other journalists are afraid that they could be subjected to the same fate if they speak out against M.B.S.
The U.S. president doesn't care. After all, to him the free press is the "enemy of the people."
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@Blue Moon
Last month all Saudi nationals left Canada because our Foreign Minister a former journalist condemned the Saudis for arresting, torturing and murdering journalists.
According to The Guardian Canada stood alone.
I do not expect this murder to change anything the USA will side with Saudi Kings and Filipino tyrants and Russian oligarchs. There is no surprise.
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I think this nation can use more pieces like Mr. Cohen's. For the most part, and primarily from Trump, we have heard about the tyranny of Iran in particular until our ears ring and hurt. But we have yet to be fully informed of the history of suppression and oppression from Saudi Arabia. For Trump and his ilk, money always talks, money supersedes ethics and morality. And SA is very, very rich from the riyal to oil.
Does anyone tire of hearing Trump's defense of Putin and Kim, as well as his silence re Assad? They, along with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, are assassins, murderers. Today in his reluctant way to challenge the Crown Prince, Trump added that no way will he end the infamous "arms deal." His spin, his lie of which his supporters believe (!), is that he is thinking of the jobs created and money to be made by allowing this sham of a promise to go ahead. That is the ultimate deception! So, if one of our own, a journalist at the WA Post, is killed and dismembered, it's okay? When on earth, will the people of this country wake up to the fact that Trump is a danger to all things decent and moral. In short, he is a disgrace of a (barely) human being.
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The evidence is convincing but it needs to be confirmed. We should be careful about reacting too soon. The Turks have a good intelligence service but they have interests in encouraging opposition to the Saudi Prince. However, we have sufficient probable cause to seriously investigate what happened and to confront the Saudi Prince. Trump has too many conflicting interests to be willing to do any of this. His company does business there. We might need to find someone else to handle this situation.
The story being discussed is truly horrific. It’s a tale of primal vengeance conducted by people with deep rage or a total lack of respect for human life. If the Saudi Prince ordered this over critical press, he’s deranged, a paranoid psychopath. We should consider that he might be mad.
So it’s important to sort this out and perhaps the Congress needs to get involved.
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@Casual Observer
So it’s important to sort this out and perhaps the Congress needs to get involved.
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The U.S. Congress?
No. We are still having trouble securing our borders, it seems. America needs to focus on Americans before we go off again on a religious mission to save the world from evil.
That's a job for Superman, not the U.S. taxpayer.
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@Casual Observer
Call a spade a spade. This Saudi prince is a TERRORIST, of the same ilk as Osama Bin Laden.
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@Casual Observer
Of course he's not "deranged." He is an absolute dynastic monarch doing what such leaders have always done -- imprisoning, torturing and murdering anyone they perceive as a threat. Kim Jong Un is not crazy either when he kills relatives or advisors. It's a cold, rational calculation.
The Saudis are the gift that keeps on giving, a brutal autocracy that used its oil as leverage to export terrorism and repression around the world, including September 11. Yet we still honor the self-dealing handshake between the Bush oil dynasty and the princes of Aramco.
It's time for this to stop. We export energy now. We should be developing other sources of energy. We do not have to be buddies with the Saudi dictatorship.
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The Trump administration is handling this crisis very badly. Wasn't it predicted precisely something like this that might finally cause a problem Trump can't talk his way out of or blame on Democrats?
It remains to be seen, however, what the presidents allies will do to call him out on this.
It's chilling to think how little a foreign reporter means to the president because of his single-minded focus on cultivating "friends" who will pay the US--and by extension him- gobs of money.
Is there any moral principle this president will stand up for?
Sorry, the question is purely hypothetical because the answer is very clear.
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@ChristineMcM
Sadly, the Trump doctrine of up is down and a lie wins any argument will also withstand this calamity.
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Did Saudi Arabia interpret a "green light" from Trump's indifference to a political murder on foreign soil by the North Korean regime?
If Trump tries to weigh one political murder against billions of dollars in weapons sales and other economic ties, there is no reason to think the Saudi government - or any other - will conclude that a second political murder would be crossing a "red line". It is far more likely that other governments will conclude that any number of political murders is more likely to be excused than not - as long as there is some economic or political agreement with the USA in the works.
We are too wealthy a nation to sign "hush money" agreements.
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Mr. Khashoggi was a permanent resident of the U.S., which means a green card holder who is or will be eligible for citizenship. As a former permanent resident growing up in the U.S., and now a citizen, I'm appalled by the seeming lack of outrage in the U.S. at the near certainty that Saudi Arabia murdered a permanent resident of the U.S. Trump went so far as to say, well, he wasn't a citizen of the U.S., implying that the murder shouldn't matter to us. What happened to the sense of taking care of our own?
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@Krishna Myneni
Totally agree. At the very least, the US Ambassador to SA should have been recalled, except that the trump administration hasn't named one because it doesn't really believe in fully staffing the State Department.
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@Krishna Myneni,
If you are appalled by the lack of outrage over Mr. Khashoggi how do you feel about the lack of outrage over the 2,977 Americans murdered by Saudi Arabia?
That happened 17 years ago. We have been friends with the Saudis continuously since then.
I am outraged by the differential of outrage. Mr. Khashoggi appears to be 2,977 times more important than a full US citizen.
@mancuroc
They don't want or need one who might interfere with Jared's deals in SA!
While I appreciate Roger’s dark, cynical humor, I should point out to neophyte readers of this forum that if I dropped the phrase “body parts on the Bosporus” into a comment on the recent Saudi antics in Istanbul, NYT Moderation would remove the comment. They’ve been doing a lot of that lately, with less provocation.
Trump has not relegated human rights to a non-issue. He’s merely acknowledged that we don’t run Saudi Arabia any more than we run Iran … or Turkey or Egypt or Russia or China, all of which do similar things if perhaps not so crudely – Russia excepted, which operates crudely indeed. If we’re going to deal productively at all with these societies, pretty much the only thing that Trump legitimately can be held liable for is that they dare not do such things to American citizens, most certainly not on U.S. soil. Mr. Khashoggi, unaccountably given his volte-face against the Saudi Arabia where he was born, raised, largely educated and where he achieved distinction, retained his Saudi citizenship while lambasting its current leadership unrelentingly and unmercifully. Muslim societies do not tolerate apostates, and why he chose to enter that Saudi consulate in Istanbul is beyond me – through intermediaries, he should have bribed officials to provide the divorce papers he needed to marry a Turkish woman.
That doesn’t forgive the Saudis for a political assassination that now seems beyond dispute and represents what journalists in free countries would argue is …
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… an abomination (largely because the victim was a journalist?), but there’s a lot about MANY societies on this Third Rock that is abominable by Western standards; and if Trump shunned all such societies we’d be dealing with very few nations on Earth.
I suspect, fairly, that the Trump administration is talking quietly with MBS’s people, pointing out that such behavior, when so blatant, complicates our bilateral relationship; and that the Saudis will be more careful in future. I can’t believe that Erdogan gives a dead, half-eaten rat’s behind that a journalist was killed, but is angry that the Saudis had the chutzpah to kill Khashoggi in Turkey, even if in a consulate that’s technically Saudi territory. Undoubtedly, the Saudis will make some gesture to Turkey to calm the waters.
But we’ve had political assassinations since we formed our first tribes, and undoubtedly we’ll have them when the last star dies out.
Khashoggi should have surrendered his Saudi citizenship and should never have entered that consulate.
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@Richard Luettgen
I agree that shunning societies that violate our values is not a good idea. But getting into a lovers' embrace with them isn't a good idea, either; and that's been the US relationship with Saudi Arabia, to a varying degree under all administrations, in the era of oil.
Under the House of Saud, it is a two-faced nation that wants business with and gobbles up armaments from the West, while playing host to, financing and exporting the most virulent creed of Wahhabism. Not to mention supplying most of the 9/11 hijackers.
It's hard to define how to deal with nations like that. China and Russia provide guidelines. We talk to them, we trade with them but we don't sell them arms. SA is no more savory than they are but we sell it arms and elevate it in some ways to be our proxy in its region.
And, as always with trump, there some public and some mysterious financial dealings with the Sauds and other leading families to consider. It's no accident that his first foreign visit in office was to SA.
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Even if he surrendered his Saudi citizenship, he would still have needed his divorce papers to remarry. He could have asked them to mail it, or find a country who would marry him without them, given his dilemma.
It is still not right to expect anyone to give up his/her nationality, which is a right deriving from his family and rooted in family history, because of a present and transitory brutal regime.
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Roger Cohen writes, "Mnuchin and Dimon might argue. What’s a single life beside vast economic interests?But sometimes a single life is all of civilization."
What about 10,000+ Yemeni lives? Seems that those lives never come into the picture. And whose economic interests? Not mine, not yours, no those Yemenis, not anybody's interests but the billionaires.
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@Martha Shelley, give Roger a break. He did mention the catastrophe in Yemen.
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The Saudis really don't give a damn about public opinion because if they did Mr. Kashoggi would be alive and well. About all Donald Trump is worried about is keeping the American defense industry thriving (like the old Tom Lehrer song about Verner von Braun "rockets, shmockets, I don't care where they come down." ) And Congress is too busy fighting an election to really worry about one individual who dared to invoke the wrath of the House of Saud. It's all very sad and all very typical.
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This isn’t a Trump issue. Let’s not give decades of administrations of both parties a pass. It was the Obama administration that facilitated over a 100 billion dollars worth of arms sales to Saudi Arabia. It was the Obama administration who gave the green light for Saudi intervention in Yemen.
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Thing is the murder happened under Donald’s watch. Before the stupendous act Saudi Arabia seemed to be turning a corner. Blaming Obama for the murder of JK isn’t rational. Trump took credit for the arms deals. So credit goes where credit is due.
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@Christian Haesemeyer
And it was George W. Bush who walked hand in hand with the Crown Prince in the White House rose garden. It's all about the oil and the corporations who own this country.
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In 2018 this is a Trump issue.
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Benjamin Netanyahu has some very wealthy American backers. These same people back Trump. Netanyahu says that Iran is an existential threat to Israel and world Jewry. Trump then backs Netanyahu as directed by his supporters. Saudi Arabia also considers Iran to be an existential threat. Saudi Arabia throws Trump a big party, complete with a sword dance. Trump falls in love with Saudi Arabia.
Add it all up. Connect the dots. As far as Trump is concerned, Saudi Arabia can do whatever it wants. They are the good guys. They oppose Iran. Ditto for Israel.
This is Trump's world. What happens to some reporter is of no consequence. He should have kept his mouth shut. He asked for it.
So what does Trump do? He ignores the entire affair until he is pressured to the point that he has to at least acknowledge it. This demonstrates a complete lack of morality and sense of right and wrong. This is Trump's world.
Transactional is far too kind of a descriptor. There must be a term for someone who can always be bought off. A term for someone who is completely lacking a social conscience. Sociopath might be the term I'm seeking. Trump must be some kind of transactional sociopath. Isn't that what a criminal is?
Trump's supporters then respond by saying that the stock market is up and unemployment is down. What does that say about them if they too ignore this horrid murder?
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@Bruce Rozenblit: Interesting, isn't it, that vile dictators by the nature of their control have the easiest time whipping up ludicrous flattery and extravagant parties for our President 45*.
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@Bruce Rozenblit The stock market is not up very much anymore. Sugar highs do not last for very long.
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Sadly I find an interesting parallel in the disappearance of the head of Interpol too. (Interesting coincidental timing). Not the horrific post closed doors part, but the actions of a state on none resident citizens, which I feel 3 years ago, for people with such profiles, would have caused large outrage at UN level, threats of sanctions and lectures from heads of states about human rights and international jurisdiction. At the least.
(The Scripal poisoning counts too in this trend).
It does not bode well for international stability, looking back on history.
Sadly, the US presence as a advocator of Human rights etc, the the ability of other, more bullish states, is changing the world dynamic, and it is unsettling. And i do not feel it is for the better.
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When your personal deals
Determine how one feels
Body parts do not count,
When Hotels may be built
You never display guilt
Your offshore cash will mount.
So don't waste your time
The Saudis to slime
Deals were made
And Kushner's big part
Doesn't involve one's heart
T'was all done in the shade.
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@Larry Eisenberg
Larry, you are a wonder! This is your best yet!
2
Hey, Jamie Dimon and Steve Mnuchin, killing opponents is not a business tactic. S.A. Is not Modernizing.
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Let's remember the source of Saudi Arabian wealth, monarchy and theocracy...filthy, polluting oil money that's helped to wreck the planet's climate...'cheap' oil that's only cheap when you don't count all the environmental costs and catastrophes they inflict on the earth.....oil money that has been used to fund global madrassas that preach conservative, medieval, strict, Wahhabist Islam to young minds around the world and that teaches that nonbelievers are heathens, enemies and infidels.
Petro-states like Saudi Arabia and Russia are famously backward and corrupt states known for their disregard of human rights, but they also actively retard alternative energy development by peddling cheap oil; their contributions to the acceleration of global warming is another disregard of human rights as heat, droughts and fossil-fueled climatic weather events trash civilization with bigger, wetter storms.
Decent countries are abandoning fossil fuels and their petro-state dictators and moving to renewable energy sources that don't fund murderous dictatorships.
Americans like to blame Sept 11 2001 on Saudi Arabians and radical Islam - that is perfectly understandable.
But what really fueled Sept 11 2001 was the historical funding of Saudi Arabia by American consumers for decades prior and since; every time Americans bought some gas, Saudi Arabia bankrolled the teaching of radical Islam to a young mind.
Clueless Donald Trump doesn't care.
But decent Americans should.
November 6 2018
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@Socrates
Indeed. Those who eschew the use of fossil fuels -- walk, bike, use an electric vehicle-- are civic-minded in more ways than one. The link between petroleum and terrorism is undeniable.
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@Socrates - "Decent countries are abandoning fossil fuels…"
Not sure what that says about the Land of The Free (old white men) then. US consumption peaked in '05 @ 20.8 million bbl/day, dropped to 18.5 by '12, then steadily grew to 19.9 by '17 - a whopping reduction of 4.3% off the peak. Nearly 1/3 of that oil is used for transportation as we drive here, drive there, drive drive everywhere.
Globally, oil use steadily increased through '17 (one might then conclude that, on average, there are no "decent countries"?). The US is far and away the biggest consumer, burning 33% more oil than #2, the EU, even tho' their population is 55% greater than ours and 51% more than China! Yikes!
In the end the evil "petro-states" are just the pushers - "We have met the (addicts) and they are US." (apologies to Pogo).
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@Socrates
Right on.
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