Khashoggi Case Raises Tensions Between Saudi Prince and Turkish President

Turkey apparently has massive numbers of journalists that have been jailed. What is the problem that Erdogan has with this? That a journalist was hacked up? He has been creating injustice of all sorts in his country for years. I doubt that he cares a whit. Edrogan must have ulterior motives for his fegined concern. And what about U.S.? We have been enabling Saudi Arabia's attacks on Yemen. When a bomb or a jet plane blows a person or many people all at once into smithereens, is that any worse than what the Saudi's allegedly did in Turkey to Khashoggi? And Trump doesn't believe in freedom of the press anyway. And neither do his supporters. So who are we kidding? It all depends on whose oz is being gored.

Why is this story so far below the headlines in the NYT ? It may not be 100% proven, but the fact that a citizen of one country (and a resident of the USA) can enter the consulate of another country and never be seen again, with the distinct possibility that he was killed there, by citizens of the second country, brought in to carry it out, is receiving sucreduced exposure ? There is a mega Davos-style economics meeting scheduled in Saudi very soon and the makers and shakers of global economics are baling out fast. Meanwhile Trump keeps his hands in his pockets and plays pocket pool.

Why is it always about the fragile male ego? That in itself, shows those who should never be in power, as they are hardly evolved beyond the primitive state, and afraid to lose power, money, and attention.

Khashoggi had his iPhone watch recording in the embassy; paired to his iPhone. His fiancée was outside with the iPhone. Tuekish police got the recording from phone with fiancée's ok. Khashoggi recorded his own torture and death. Trump is responsible. Trump did not warn this journalist. Vote out the GOP ; it is the right thing to do. Ray Sipe

Hmm... 15 Saudis on multiple airplanes again... and a friendly US president looks the other way again. Money talks. 'The business of America is business'. Shame on America.

Love Lindsey Graham harping “hell to pay if journalist killed”? No line drawn on bombing a school bus filled with children—with US bomb no less. And how about owning your own bad Karma-Shoving Kavanaugh through with surely negative impact to follow. Useless Leadership

Trump has blood on his hands. Trump and his "enemy of the people" puts a target on journalists and makes bold Dictators around the World. Vote out GOP . Ray Sipe

So who exactly anointed this guy with the pop-star acronym? Shall we now add the obligatory preface: The Notorious? This type of hyper-efficient mob hit makes one nostalgic for the ricin-tipped umbrella or polonium-210 in the tea cup. Khashoggi had to know he was taking a big risk. These Wahhabists are completely intolerant of criticism. In the US the media fawned unduly over both Bin Salman and Khashoggi. Obviously the real situation in Saudi Arabia demands a little more critical attention.

The Saudi royal family has always anti-Islamist, at least the extreme Wahhabi version. But, if you're 'in charge' you are threatened by these folks as they do not believe in civil law or monarchs, just Imams and clerics. However, Turkey has been taken over by an extreme fascist, one who has basically declared himself supreme ruler (forever?). The fact that Saudi may have murdered this journalist, and that sounds likely, is astounding and must be brought to trial if the evidence is there. However, I cannot embrace Erdogan and what he has done to a once beautiful, free, country back in the 80s and 90s. What happened?

The nation's with the most Muslims aka Indonesia, Pakistan, India and Bangladesh are neither ethnic Arab nor ethnic Turk. And they have or had female heads of government and/or state. Moreover, the Arabs and the Turks are both opposed to the ethnic Kurds and the ethnic Persians. While all of the Sunni Muslims Arabs Kurds and Turks stand in sectarian opposition to the Shia Muslim Arabs and Persians.

This evident murder is not a matter of he said, she said, yet the back and forth, oppositional nature of this article suggests it. There is no evidence whatever on the Saudi side, and no plausible story line that absolves the Saudis of doing grave harm to Mr Khashoggi. At the level of evidence, differences between the leaders of KSA and Turkey at best might explain how this saga plays out. It does nothing to illuminate the crime itself.

The stakes are high indeed. The Sultan is going broke so 100 or more billion in Saudi investments will doctor this crisis. Trump will stick with 110 billion arm sales to the Saudis and let Jared doing his job, ha. The Saudi oil spigots will resolve this, billions have a way of buying political decisions. The World shivers at the thought that such heinous criminal act has been done and shoved under the carper. A dismembered body lays buried somewhere. The body of a journalist revealing, what else? truths?! We must not let this go unpunished. We must not!

The Saudi actions in the Khashoggi disappearance are those of a totalitarian regime. I'm also disturbed by the chilling effect it's having on American first amendment rights. When I began writing this blog entry today the thought ran through my own mind: am I safe expressing my opinion, even though I'm an American citizen located in the United States expressing his opinion on an anonymous forum? Just how far are these guys willing to go to suppress dissent? This little bit of paranoia on my part partly stems from the fact that the Saudi's have their fingers in the American Internet pie. And when I say the Saudi's, I do mean Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and his family. Elon Musk's recent attempt to finance a private takeover of Tesla, funded by the Saudi Arabian sovereign wealth fund, is just one example of the Saudi influence on American companies. I'm also reminded that Apple makes all of their products in China - another totalitarian regime. Certainly any company financed by the Saudi's will fork over whatever data they demand, about any person they choose...regardless of their nationality.

Is Khashoggi alive? We don't know but the stores being reported are not encouraging and at the same time confusing. Killing or kidnaping a person doesn't take a team of up to 15 people. One or two will be effective and less obtrusive and using the right method it looks like "Natural Causes." Why a team unless: you want a record of the fear, terror, screams, begging, pleading, groaning, moaning, and actual demise as the person is punished/tortured for some reason known only to those who ordered the act. Then you have to dispose of the remains so that they will never be found by anyone. My opinion: this was no simple "Hit" it was revenge and it sends a message to anyone else who runs afoul of the person who authorized and paid for the mission. Who else was complicit? We will never know because the got the message already and aren't ever going to speak. It's only my opinion.

Erdogan is certainly an Islamist from Turkey's perspective, which was founded as a secular republic by Ataturk. But how does he compare to other Muslim cultures? He has only one wife, presents his wife in public gatherings, shakes hands with women, and has cordial relations with secular Turks who support his regime for opportunistic reasons. Those same Turks are called traitors by most Muslims. Compare this to Mohammad bin Salman. To him, secularism and modernity means Western capitol and weapons. Both ideas are in fact dangerous to his rule. How on earth can a kingdom support any progressive reform without collapsing? The barbaric murder of Jamal Khashoggi shows that Saudia Arabia has no common ground with the United States. Turkey, for all its faults, has more in common with the United States than Saudia Arabia ever will.

Mohammed bin Salman (puhleese with the MBS already) must have been totally shocked by the U.S. public reaction to his (alleged) killing of a journalist. His American translator had told him that journalists in America are currently easily expendable prey.

We know that all too often when one of his supporters is accused of impropriety , Trump will defend his by proclaiming ---in a firm, loud voice---"Well, he denies it, " and will often repeat it more than once, "Well, he denies it !" And that's that--- in Trump's world the man must be considered innocent . Here too the Crown Prince MBS denies that Khashoggi did not leave the Consulate. I think the Crown Prince knows of what he speaks. Khashoggi left the consulate. MBS did not mention that he left in parts, separated into parcels, secreted out of the Consulate. Why do you think they brought along a bone-saw??

The smug smile on MBS suggests he does not fear mass cancellations from his 2030 conference; he shares Trump's shallow transactional POV--he believes he can bully the greedy world with his wealth. Dismembering a respected journalist is an atrocity that even overtakes Putin's poisonings as worthy of global scorn. But trump thinks selling billions of arms to the Saudis makes it dumb to impose sanctions; 'why lose money- they will shop elsewhere' is his rationale. But depriving Saudis of weapon systems is not the point. Rewarding murderers is a travesty as bad as Chamberlin's appeasement of Hitler.

In addition to the Sopranos episode where a corpse is put through a meat grinder, there was an episode of the recently ended FX series “The Americans” that featured a gruesome body disposal. The cadaver was folded up, bones broken, so that it would fit in a suitcase and could be carried out the hotel. And don’t forget the wood chipper in “Fargo.” MBS has really shown himself to be vicious, crude and arrogant. Did he think any country would overlook a murder on its territory by a foreign power? In a consulate?

Saudis murdered American Khashoggi. NO dealings of any kind with Saudis. UN must denounce. NO arms deals. Complete Sanctions. Investigate Trump and Kushner relationship with Saudis. with Saudis. NO to Saudis. Ray Sipe

Saudis murdered an American. Trump says arms sales are more important. Vote out GOP. Ray Sipe

From those wonderful folks who brought you 9/11.

Not only is Trump not going to do anything about the Saudi’s horrific murder of a journalist, Trump wishes he could do the same here and get away with it. And yesterday he gave his blessing on that murder by saying our billion dollar deals selling arms to the Saudis is more important than the lives of journalists. How low our country has sunk.

In this diplomatic crisis between Turkey and Saudi Arabia, Erdogan – for once – is basking in favourable reviews. It’s an irony that he stands up for a Saudi dissident, while cracking down on critics at home. That Erdogan has agreed to the Saudi request to cooperate with Turkey, was a possible sign that the Saudi leadership may be searching for a face-saving exit strategy as it grapples with growing international outcry to explain Khashoggi’s fate. For once the unruly Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman (MBS) has a taste of what pressure is like, especially when US officials are said to have collected intelligence about him discussing a plan to lure Khashoggi back to Saudi Arabia from the US and detain him. Saudi Arabia can’t afford bad publicity: The NYT said it was withdrawing its sponsorship of the investment conference in Riyadh this month. Other international investors, like Britain’s Richard Branson have pulled out of business talks with Saudi Arabia.

It isn't like MBS and Saudi Arabia have any fear that the US will act against them. The hidden genius Jared Kushner and the golden handcuffs on Trump prevent it. Horrifying.

"Saudi leaders appear surprised by the magnitude of the international reaction" that is already derailing foreign investment in the kingdom. This appears to be the leverage Erdogan was looking for, as he attempts to re-enforce his country's position as a safe haven for wealthy Arabs, who no longer feel comfortable in the Saudi kingdom. Turkey needs the wealthy Arabs from the kingdom, as well as the support coming from Qatar because Turkey's corporate sector is struggling with $200 billion in foreign debt, due in part to inflation and a devalued currency. The EU depends on Turkey to continue to do its dirty work for a price: Returning refugees to war-torn countries. So it's unlikely the EU will object to any face-saving power-deal reached by Prince Mohammed and President Erdogan. There is a bluster of words coming from lawmakers in Washington D.C. but it's also unlikely that any actions will follow that might jeopardize the recent $100 billion US military weapons sale to the Saudi government, or our very unpopular support of the gruesome war being waged in Yemen.

Let us be candid, MBS is not a reformer, he is Putin like. His reign will be disastrous for the area especially Yemen and the Palestinians. As for the Saudi dissidents get ready for a long prison life or leave ASAP. Do not expect Trump and his ILK to do anything. Graham likes to hear himself talk.

Courage. It is apparent that we live in a time of great peril for journalists. I salute those like the two authors of this piece who have made their stand and are illuminating the danger of sweeping the killing of Khashoggi under the rug. If we don't stand and protect one journalist, then all are in danger, and if a free press falls, then so does democracy. Hugh Massengill, Eugene Oregon

This is what happens when energetic young men are given too much power. They have no wisdom gained from experience to temper their dreams of a glittering future.

Look at the way MBS became king,that is all you need to know.

I remember this episode of the Sopranos when Christofer whacks a rival and chops him up. I had no idea the Saudi prince was an aficionado of The Sopranos. Here's a suggestion for the Saudis when people ask where Mr. Khashoggi is, tell them he must be in the witness protection program. Seriously though, watch the spin machine start to kick in on Capitol Hill and from the White House to start to give the Saudis cover. Even though our intelligence agencies have all the phone conversations recorded between the Saudis and can give us the brand name of the bone saw used to dismember Mr. Khasoggi, there is just too much money to be had with defense contractors and other business dealings, especially with the Trump clan, to allow the murder of an American resident and Washington Post journalist get in the way.

What a scary story. I heard that there is a good chance Mr. Kashoggi was not warned about his impending doom by our CIA and that the Trump govt. censored it. If this is true, and it will be exposed in the end, it is a criminal act by our dear leader - another step on the road to his fascist leanings. We knew about the risks , but there was no red light offered to this fine journalist. Just another disgrace in our governance , another injustice and lack of decency. America where are you?

Since at 1991, Donald Trump has done business in the millions$ with the Saudis that's enriched him & helped reduce his debts. Trump - while president - rakes in million$ right now from the Saudis staying in his hotels in New York & Washington. Trump makes huge profits from this association. To Trump, this is just about $$$. Trump's won't do anything that would disrupt his profitable personal dealings with the Saudis. There's mounting evidence Jamal Khashoggi was tortured, murdered & dismembered in the Saudi consulate in Turkey, (a NATO ally). It appears MBS has committed war crimes & crimes against humanity in the past year. He's an unfit ally for the U.S. We must learn whether Jared Kushner gave his buddy MBS U.S. intelligence about Saudi dissidents including Mr. Khashoggi. We must also learn the truth about whether Kushner, or Donald Trump, had advance knowledge MBS was planning to render or kidnap Khashoggi or was planning to kill him. If Kushner knew, do we believe he would have told Trump what was going on (that again....)? If Trump had any knowledge MBS was going to act illegally against a journalist & permanent legal resident of the U.S. - including kidnapping or killing him - and did not take steps to warn Khashoggi, Trump must be removed from office. We can only hope the GOP Congress understands Trump's knowledge or complicity in this atrocity would justify his removal from office. And we must expect Trump to lie about this every step of the way.