Wall St. Extends Drop Into Sixth Day, Setting Stage for Another Awful October

American stock markets briefly stabilized early Thursday, as a report showing muted inflation helped send bond yields lower. By late morning, stocks were falling again.

Comments: 218

  1. I came across an old Mad book from the mid 1950's in my attic recently. There was an illustration of a man who represented the American economy with two woman who he had to choose between. One represented the Democrats and was homely, trustworthy and ran an efficient home. The other represented the Republicans and was dressed alluringly, in a black leather catsuit and was tempting the man with large tax cuts and a booming economy, followed by an economic crash.

    Seems some things never change.

  2. They can change, Rosie, if people wake up and vote for Socially Conscious Women and men who know how to run things instead of just steal from us.

  3. take a picture and post to /politics on Reddit!

  4. @Rosie
    You mean, it's _about time_ for things to change!

  5. The thing I notice is the nasty edge of this situation. The US had an amazingly reckless tax cut and giant defense increases. US military interventions are expensive and hardly ever work out to any ones benefit. The Chinese and the US are maneuvering in much more belligerent manner. Trump wants to lead the country without allies and international business partners. Sanctions are being leveled with cavalier political gamesmanship. And Wall Street is worried about way over due wage increases.

  6. Yes, the Koch brothers and their International Mafia Robber Baron cabal have been planning this for 40+ years, c harris. It wasn't "reckless". It was planned.

  7. @c harris Wall St might be trying to punish Amazon for wage increases, and punish the other tech companies in warning, but I think it's just another round of profit taking. If you don't bring stock prices down every few months, there are no good buying opportunities. Thus, the IRA sheep and less wealthy and less savvy investors sell off when prices drop and the real wealthy and plugged in can buy some bargains. It's like a clothing sale that happens on schedule every few months, really.

  8. Google "Donald Trump stock DJT" for a preview of what happens when trump is in control.

  9. Handing Trump the nuclear codes is only part of the folly of those who voted for him. The other part is playing out in real time because Trump thinks the economy is buying low and selling high.

    After all Trump was paid $200K a year by his father when he was just 3 years old. Obviously a business savant while he was still in his nappies. Who knows more about finance -- or cheating -- than Trump?

    Nobody tells him how the economy works. Gary Cohn gave up when the only influence he had came from swiping papers Trump didn't know were on his desk.

    Trump gets his advice from rich friends like Carl Icahn whose idea of making money is not unlike how a vampire bites someone's neck. Carl tells him those sinister Chinese are robbing us blind, which is why there's a huge trade deficit.

    The Economist is appalled that Trump is obsessed with China's trade surplus as if it measured one for you and two for me. Their analysis is that -- when trade balances are understood properly -- US and China are fairly even.

    Corporate profit sheets look great thanks to Trump's tax cuts, kinda like bulging muscles from steroids. Now the turbocharger is off and those great quarterly gains are flat. US households are under a $1 trillion debt cloud, plus $1.5 trillion in student debt and a $1 trillion deficit. That's $3.5 trillion missing in action.

    Markets measure optimism. Trump measures greed.

    They don't play well together.

  10. Well demolished, Yuri Asian.

    A fine magnum opus.

  11. @Yuri Asian
    The Trumps are such savy business men.... I mean really! If just that $200,000 were invested in DJ stocks when he was 3, it would be worth over $20 million today........ and without all that shystering! That $14M loan he got (what he calls his "small $1million loan from daddy) would be worth $1.4 billion. And that is just a small part of the family fortune. Instead, he shystered the government and everyone else he came in contact with when he could have done far better by a simple investment. Some businessman! And to think he is running the country!

  12. I kind of picture the interaction of economic cycles and US Presidency as two kids squabbling over a toy -- maybe a wooden hobby horse.

    When the economy is strong, the horse is exciting and new the big bully kid grabs it and rides it around everywhere, scraping it against walls and getting into all kinds of shenanigans. The other kid asks if she can have a turn and the big bully says "Ha ha no, loser."

    Then -- KER-SNAP -- CRACK -- the toy breaks broken. The bully kid loses interest. The other kid says "can I try?" and no one cares enough to stop her.

    Gingerly, carefully, she restores that old hobby horse, making and pasting on new whiskers, mending the rod, until after a while it's stronger than ever and looks even better than new.

    And -- oh who's that behind her? -- it's the bully kid again. He's interested. He whacks her over the head, grabs the toy, and is off to the races.

    I dunno, it always seemed to me like the 2008 Obama election was as much as anything a matter of the R ruling class saying "bah, fine, it's not even working anyway, you have a turn".

  13. In other words, this is the standard sequence that the rich have developed to loot the economy. They put their guy in and he deregulates (takes the cop off the beat) and the Republicans steal everything they can with two hands. Eventually the economy has been robbed to the point that honest people can’t get paid and the economy collapses. The Republicans retreat and the Democrats elect someone trustworthy who does all the hard work of getting the economy on its feet. The Democrats never make the people whole again and they never prosecute the criminals whose theft broke the economy.
    The rich Republicans come back in the next cycle on a platform of lies that blame everything on the trustworthy Democrats and the people, who do not have time to read or understand, buy it. When back in power the Republicans deregulate (take the cop off the beat) again and rob everyone again.
    It is the standard cycle since the end of WWII and each cycle lowers the middle class standard of living a little more. Even the dumb middle class is starting to get angry but as usual they are angry at the wrong people. A population that is too ignorant to know who is robbing them is not capable of making a democracy work, as we saw in the last election. Either the middle class has to get smart very fast or we need a new form of government.

  14. @Michael

    I feel this way about public education. The greedy seem to me determined to drain all funds and destroy it, then some of my mom colleagues and myself will pick up the pieces, spend our own money, do what we can, and as soon as we have something beginning again—back will come the huge educational fund miners, the politicians who use schools like policy footballs. In rhetoric only, of course. No help.

  15. Brilliant! Thank you.

  16. This is dumb. Eliminate the tariffs and restore good relations with China. Yes, China has some problems with how it does business. So does Trump. Crashing the markets and disrupting world trade is no way to run an economy. Trump wouldn't do this to Denmark. He's trying to punish China for the crime of being "successful while non-European."

  17. Europe and China certainly understand that trump is the biggest threat to the global economy. To get rid of him (and his policies written by the nakedly greedy .01 percent), they will have to hurt the US economy, even though it will hurt their own, and probably severely. They have the power, and shouldn’t hesitate to use it. It’s always been the economy, stupid.

  18. Trump's scorched Earth, poisoning the well strategy is only going to lead to a world wide recession. A recession probably as bad, or worse, than the one 10 years ago. Throw in an administration who is making the economy look more rosier than it currently is, causing the federal reserve to tighten monetary policy (raise interest rates). This is now creating a downward spiral.

    Meanwhile, for most Americans they are still waiting to recover from the Great Recession. There are many people who are not in the work force, because they cannot find work. Those who are working, are not seeing wage increases matching inflation. The real winners, in all of this, are the 1%, home owners in hot real estate markets, Wall Street investors and corporations.

    The tariffs, coupled with tight monetary policy, is going to lead to another US created world wide recession. Another one formulated by the Republican Party, and a president, who may have a degree in economics, from Wharton, but has absolutely no clue about economics. It makes one wonder how much is father contributed to the University of Pennsylvania to get his son that MBA.

    Finally, considering Trump/GOP are repeating the 1920s, the upcoming recession will be Great Depression II.

    Again, DNC, Pelosi, Feinstein, and super delegates was it worth it?

  19. @Nick Metrowsky Stop blaming the DNC, etc. Clinton won the nomination by a LOT. (And yes, I voted for Bernie in the primary.) If you want to blame those among the Dems and the independents, blame the fools who didn't get off their couches to vote for Clinton during the last election. (And if you really think she's all that bad, you've swallowed the horse-hockey the right wing (and Russia!) have been peddling about her for years. It's rubbish.)

  20. @Nick Metrowsky

    Stay-at-home Bernies, Greenies … how do you like your man, Trump? Worth it?

  21. @Nick Metrowsky

    "And if you assumed his degree was an MBA, you’d be wrong. Trump holds a bachelor of science degree in economics from Wharton, earned after transferring in as a junior from Fordham University. Several early Trump profiles, including a 1973 New York Times piece, stated that he graduated first in his class at Wharton, but that has since been disputed. A 1968 commencement program does not list his name among students who graduated with honors."


  22. Markets are cyclical and this up market is long in the tooth. I fully expect a significant downtown before Trump is out.

  23. Trump already has failed, we’re just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

  24. It was very stupid for the Fed to raise the interest rates the world have changed dramatically, economies are interconnected and even lowest unemployment and the highest economic growth have limited influence on inflation. Due to globalization excessive demand in the U.S would trigger more imports instead of inflation.

    Increasing the interest rates will have only have downsides:
    1- Greatly harming U.S companies competitiveness, and capacity to raise affordable debt.
    2- Stifling the wage growth specially among the middle and the lower class
    3- Reducing economic growth
    4-Currently the tight job market give confidence for the employees to resign and look for more fulfilling jobs, and now this will be over

  25. Don’t look now if you have a weak stomach, but the stock market just got sick and tired of winning.

  26. If you listen closely, you can hear the Democrats cheering. There's nothing they like more than a failing stock market, or bad economic news. It all fits their left-wing agenda: "you can't count on Capitalism to save you--only Democrats and their Big Government agenda can make your life better".

    In reality, it's economic treason--Democrats cheering for bad things to happen to the nation--so they can gain power.

  27. @Jesse The Conservative
    If you think Trump's trade wars are good keep investing in the stock market, but be prepared to take a bath.

  28. @Jesse The Conservative No one is cheering, except people who like to buy stocks on sale. Take off your partisan filter and just experience the world as it is. The stock market is down. It will be up later. And down again later. And the lives of most Americans who are not rich or about to retire will be unchanged because of it.

  29. @Jesse The Conservative
    Economic treason? Economic treason is adding $1.5 trillion to the national debt with deficit-financed tax cuts for corporations and wealthy individuals.

    The economic traitors are the Republicans who loot the Treasury and put our future at risk by shoveling cash to their donor class with tax cuts the rest of us will eventually pay for.

  30. If you're a longterm investor like myself, stocks are on sale this week. Hopefully you have some cash lying around to buy. Don't panic. Don't sell.

  31. @Nick How many people have any idea what their IRA and 401K managers are doing? Even if they did, how could they affect it? It's sheep shearing time.

  32. @Nick

    Bummer that the only thing I will be doing over the next few years is selling as I and my son's 529 sell off shares to pay for college...

    I hope when it is your time to enter one of the "spending periods" you are saving for, your timing is better than mine.

  33. Here it comes, ladies and gentlemen. The biggest global meltdown since the depression.

    Don't worry though. The Con Don and his International Mafia Robber Baron cabal will be just fine. For every dollar you make on your 401K people like Carl Ichan makes $1 MILLION.

    Losses do not evaporate. For every dollar you lose they MAKE $1Million.

    The global markets are all on paper. China has assets to back up their paper. The U.S. does not - the assets have all been outsourced to China and other countries.

    Please, do let panic, fear and anger overtake you and do not panic. WE THE PEOPLE - average people around the world - must help each other. Do NOT let them start WW3 in the chaos that's coming.

    Not now. Not ever.

  34. @njglea
    Do you also pray for asteroids to hit the Earth? The market is still up over 5000 points since Trump's election. If yesterday was a "melt down", then you're quite desperate.

  35. Everything Donald Trump touches eventually goes into bankruptcy. The US and world economy should be no different.

    But the GOP got their huge tax cuts through so who is worried?

  36. Biggest factor - the Fed raising the interest rate for no real reason except that after two or three years of talking about it they decided its time to curb impending inflation. Pitiful academics. If it ain't broke don't fix it. For them to bungle on top of the administrations bizarro wanton economic policies is just the icing on the cake.

  37. @Victor Huff I always know when to stop reading the comments because they stop making sense when I reach a certain level down in number of recommends. You're the stoplight today.

  38. Trump replaced Janet Yellan before her tenure was over. Now he’s unhappy with his choice and the decision to raise interest rates. And of course there are his tariffs, and massive deficit. Wall Street is happy and taxpayers suffer.

  39. I'm not a speculator, but simply a long term investor. My parents were regular middle class people who taught me the importance of saving a small portion of your earnings every year and putting it into mutual funds (there were no ETF's in those days). Don't panic, the world is not ending and unless you are in dire needs of your long term investments- just sit tight like I am.

    A few years ago, I engaged a low cost robo-advisor to manage my investments for me and automatically rebalance my retirement portfolio to my desired risk tolerance based on age and my retirement timeframe. If stocks fall, they simply sell bonds and buy more stocks at low prices. It's very comforting to know that they will step in and do so at no charge to me when restoring balance is necessary.

  40. Markets go up and down. That's why they are called markets. Chasing short term gains, and selling on the big down days is a fool's errand. I have watched friends and relatives lose big money by doing so, especially in 2008. Invest in good stocks and funds, and sit back. Don't fall for the doom and gloom purveyors.

  41. Eighteen months ago I needed a AAA tow. The tow-driver was a chatty guy who’d been on the job years, and as I rode in the cab with him to the garage, I asked him what he thought of the new President. He pondered a while then responded: “Well, my modest IRA is doing well, and everyone keeps saying he’s a successful, clever business man, but then I think that he bankrupted a casino. Who bankrupts a casino?” These words keep returning to me.

  42. @scamp02

    If it were possible to send friend requests here I would be sending one to you...

  43. @scamp02

    Just about every large-scale casino in the US has gone through bankruptcy at least once.

  44. @scamp02 Its why he bankrupted the casinos.

    He tolds us at Wharton. He borrowed and bought 10 properties, Then with the 10% borrowing from each put all that leverage into one which was then 100% leveraged, declared bankruptcy on all 9 (including the cash cow casinos which had serviced the loans) and walked away with one property. Rinse repeat. Its is a basic scamming of the tax laws.

    Problem being that he burnt 9 investors each time so towards the end of his career he no one but the Russian mafia who would lend to him. Even the US mafia wouldnt!

  45. Risks have been accumulating for a while.

    When "Wrong Way" Larry Ludlow replaced Gary Cohn as Economic Advisor, documents stopped disappearing from Trump's desk and were signed instead.

    With Cohn out of the way, vulture capitalist Wilbur Ross, who is reported to have stolen $120 million from business partners, teamed up with fringe nationalist economist, Peter Navarro, tariffs starting flying everywhere.

    Domestic steel prices have risen 33%, Ford is laying off 12% of its US workforce, oil prices are ratcheting up in response to upcoming sanctions on Iran, agricultural output planted for export is piling up, Canadians, our largest trading partners, have taken the pledge to stop buying American and we are running a $1 trillion deficit in an already hot economy.

    What could go wrong?

    If you have some life savings and can move a little of it into safer assets every time the Trump Administration does something that appears economically wrong headed, you will be better prepared to survive the inevitable GOP wreckage without selling the rest at a loss.

  46. Trump has taken credit for the historic Market climb. Now he will blame Obama for the slide.

  47. @RLW why, he still wants to lock up Hillary.

  48. Joseph Kennedy once said in 1928:

    "You know it's time to sell when shoeshine boys give you stock tips. This bull market is over."

  49. Just another Wall Street profit-taking cycle prompted by approaching mid-term elections. Will cycle in typical pump - dump - buy - repeat that generates billions in profits for electronic traders. Great for Wall Street and devastating for Main Street 401ks.

  50. This is a much needed correction. The American boom was nothing but a flash bang, a lot of smoke and mirrors. The economy is awesome! Look at those job numbers, those corporate profits! Except all of it was borrowed from the future, which is coming at us much faster than we ever imagined.

    Have a look at how China's central authority keeps things humming along. "Worried about the impact of negative information on its citizens, China has censored negative economic news." Not so different from our modus operendi.

    I guess it boils down to your capacity for self delusion, how desperately you need to believe in all the things you've been conditioned to believe in - a way of life that demands you give up a huge portion of your life to working for the things that make life pleasant; a large house with a lot of stuff in it, large cars; and a large debt that keeps you chained and the wheels of commerce nicely oiled.

    Those pesky kids who have looked at that trajectory, decided that with the two jobs they are working just to get by, they can't afford it. They're the ones ruining it for everyone else. Hey, why do they get to not be slaves to the god of consumption? Isn't it their patriotic duty to keep up. What else is there?

    Plenty is the answer and it's my fondest wish more of us get to discover that before we ruin this beautiful place we call home with our insatiable consumption.

    The stock market is tumbling. Awesome news!

  51. @Memi von Gaza -- "capacity for self-delusion" I suspect correlates very closely with voting Republican.

  52. Talk about the Fundamental Contradiction...

    While the status quo is still good, risks are increasing.”

  53. Trump will play another round of golf while pondering: who can I blame for this?

    Hint to Trump: look in the mirror.

    In the meantime, Republican members of Congress send their thoughts and prayers.

  54. The stock market is like anything else in human behavior. React before thinking. It’s mob mentality.

  55. Do not believe anything Wall Street experts tell you. The market was up and down for months before it crashed in 1929. Then they were the ones jumping out of windows.

    Think about the reality. BIG investors are in a frenzy buying up the best land in the world - and housing around the world - because land is the only real asset we have. They already control the housing/rental market in America.

    They are using bitcoin and other crypto currencies so they can trade among themselves - tax free - while the rest of us sink in the quagmire they have created.

    Anyone who still has 401K money in the "market" is nuts. Get it off their craps table and put it in IRA CDs in your local credit union and/or bank - where it will serve your community - or put it into U.S. Money Treasury Fund at T.Rowe Price or some other reputable firm. Your money will still be tax-protected until you retire but you will not lose another dime.

    That is not until The Con Don changes the rules and take away the tax deferral on 401ks.

    Have a nice day.

  56. @njglea The magical they.

  57. My grandmother had no education. She grew up in the depression and never made more than 15K in her life. She died at 88.

    She invested small amounts in stocks as low as 1 dollar beginning in the 30's. She had a very nice retirement.

    It's nuts to listen to advise. It's not nuts to buy stocks over time at a rate you're comfortable with and ignoring the noise.

    I can't predict what the stock market will do during any period of time. What I can predict is people will sell low and buy high unless they stop trying to time the market and average their cost by both buying constantly or selling constantly as their personal circumstances dictate.

  58. @njglea Cash out your equities and buy some CDs or maybe some inflation protected Treasuries? That is great advice - if you can live with a 1% rate of return net of inflation.

    For most of us, not losing money isn't nearly good enough. The median retirement saver will never accumulate enough without compound interest working in their favor. For the numbers to work you need *something* to compound and earning 1% on 1% year over year isn't going to cut it unless you don't plan on living very long after you quit working.

  59. The Great Depression was marked as a beginning with a stock market crash. Yes, many people who were gambling with borrowed money, puts and calls, came to grief.

    But in the days following there were tariffs, trade barriers erected that brought expected responses of tariffs on our goods. A trade war. It was the tariffs and trade war that sank the economy, put people out of work.

    Yes, we've seen this before. Looks like we are stupid enough to do it again.

    "Those who do not study history shall be forced to repeat it."

  60. C'mon Trump ! Don't break the bucket, spill the beans or do the things that aren't helpful to economies, trading nations and prosperity...

    I'm an Aussie and we haven't had a recession since 1991 and were hoping we could get by and maybe sneak through having one ever again...we got through the GFC ...but you are sure making it difficult for us to escape what's coming...

    Come on! Pay your Workers more ...and make sure Business doesn't get away with throwing out the baby with the bathwater and then get caught stealing the Kitchen sink and selling the bathroom to shareholders 5 times!

    Pay fair, create demand and growth by ensuring people have enough money to spends building profits, revenue and business!

    Give All workers 4 weeks paid leave like everybody else on the planet has for decades! Immediately double the hotel, travel and leisure industry and economy when everybody takes 5 weeks off a year!

    OR...Pay peanuts, demand unpaid overtime, impoverish the workers who are also the consumers and wonder why business is not as it should be or could be.

    Its NOT Rocket Science it is a recipe for National Prosperity....that thing that happened from 1948 to 1980 and created 150 million middle class successes!

    You are racing your nation and its people to the bottom of the bucket just so a few wealthy but always greedy can make a few more bucks from an ever smaller pool of people who are treading water or going backwards just so a bunch of rich break new records for inequality.

  61. Amen!

  62. Well said Loomy!

  63. @Loomy-Bless you. I hope your economy doesn't take a hit too.

  64. What was it our doomsday president said about winning at tariffs? "It's so easy to win, so easy". Anything is easy if you don't know what you are doing and you don't care.

  65. IMHO, The drops are NOT about fears of an interest rate rise; that has already been built into prices of stocks and bonds.

    We had a extended period of free money for corporations, with interest rates so low they hurt plain vanilla savings, This could not continue in the face of full employment, skilled labor shortages, fully valued stocks and increasing inflation.

    Large corporations operating in the US have built up huge cash reserves - NOT because of the buying power of consumers, but because money was cheap for over 8 years, and now, the tax change confirmed that they can keep more of that stash.

    But what is driving volatility is that no one knows what is going to come next in trade rules and restrictions, and the US' erratic multiple foreign policy moves.

    Trade is global: what upsets the world is going to upset us. Even if - a big if - the US can force the Chinese to operate with more 'respect' for intellectual property, change alone makes for volatility. (And who has figured out what the Chinese could do with their ownership of US securities?)

    TenCent was mentioned: it had a total return in 2O17 of 113.39%: that puts recent drops in perspective.

    Initiatives against other countries are confusing and are increasing the costs of some US businesses right now, whatever happens in the future.

    Short selling among big hedge funds, who have been hoping for a "real" correction, just paid off on the recent drop.The trading increases volatility.

  66. A prolonged 5000 point drop in the Dow is the best chance we have for getting rid of Trump.

    I am rejoicing in the recent decline of the stock market and hope it continues to drop precipitously.

  67. @A. Stanton
    Can you afford that?
    I hope so.

  68. “How you react to the so-called housing bubble can be a barometer of your business personality. Are you the type of person who takes advantage of positive situations when they present themselves…or do you heed every message of doom and gloom, avoiding risks that could be some remarkable opportunities?” Donald Trump wrote in a 2005 post on his Trump University blog.

    “Is it the so-called bubble you're afraid of or is it hard work? If you're willing to do what it takes, you will succeed in any market,” Trump said in his 2006 audio book “Bubble-Proof Real Estate Investing.”

    And when the Great Recession came and the American housing market crashed economies around the globe, Trump's "business personality" was revealed when he chose to avoid "hard work" and instead defrauded middle class Americans with a sham University -- as well as a pyramid scheme (Trump Network) -- peddling smoke and mirrored fantasies from his three-ring reality show platform.

  69. @D.A.Oh Good points. But also realize that this is the work of a ghost writer.

  70. We live in a global economy. When the US market (the largest) gets a chill, the rest of the world catches a cold...we are so interconnected. Unfortunately US leadership, believes that we live on a different planet. We are now self-sufficient in gas and oil, and no-one else matters. Except for the very wealthy, American businesses generally speaking are having their global supply chains disrupted. It is the S&P500 companies that are responsible for over 80% of the economy and most American jobs who are the "victims" of our leaderships short sighted greed.

    For the world to flourish economically, we really need to go back to "free-trade" where market rules apply. If a country such as China imposes an import fee on US goods, then a similar fee will be applied to their exports to the US.

    A simple way to level the playing field is to put an import fee on the Carbon content of goods... and impose a Carbon Fee and Dividend tax on the Carbon (Oil, Coal, and Gas) producers in the US. Imported Chinese goods would pay a fee based on their Carbon foot-print. The fee, as a dividend will be returned to all working American families so that all Americans can use the power of the market to improve our nation's health, reduce the impact of Climate Change.

    We need 21st Century methods to improve the quality of life for all humans. Not go back to the 19th Century as advocated by the US government!

  71. @Geoffrey Brooks --- Going along with your thoughts on selective tariff... why not put a floating tariff on the wage component of imports manufactured in low and slave-wage countries. Where the tariff would be equal to the wage differential in the production/manufacturing phase between those countries and the U.S.

  72. Since you haven't been covering the fact that the Dow has never returned to where it was in January you might hold off until the end of the day on your rosy predictions. As I write this the Dow has fallen 250 pts. While no one could conclude that the Times has been overly favorable to Trump, the business page has systematically hyped every positive index and played down wage stagnation, under employment, dropping out of the wage market ( I have not been able to find a job in years, though I have 25 years of teaching experience) and inflation. Without Krugman ( and who is he, Nobel pfft!) you would think we have a golden age where all boats are rising.

  73. @Greg Jones If you have not been able to find a job, you are looking in the wrong places, or expect some employer to pay you for skills that aren't applicable to the job market. There is plenty of work out there, just not the work that you feel is your entitlement.

  74. actually there isn't. he said he was a teacher. 25 years of teaching experience. that probably puts him in his 50s. you can not find a job that pays a liveable wage in your 50s. God forbid you try to find a job to make mortgage payment in your 60s.

  75. A "correction" was inevitable. Ultimately the market will have to survive without public assistance, or be replaced as the paradigm of the US economy.

  76. @RC
    A very sane comment.
    At 68 I have seen the stock market do this many times.
    The 2007 - 2008 crash was predicted for a couple years before it happened.
    In the last few years we have heard from some of those ( that predicted the 2007 - 2008 crash) folk trying to ring bells about this.
    Now we have a POTUS telling the federal reserve that raising borrowing rates to counter inflation is a bad idea. This is after Mr Trump instituted taxes on our allies as well as our competitors. As well as giving corporations a permanent tax rollback and an expiring tax break to most folk that is actually minor. That tax rollback will increase the national debt to almost 50% of the U.S. GNP.
    I cannot exclude all this from this a possible recession. But I truly hope I am wrong.

  77. I blame this all on Jeff Bezos. He gave his workers a raise so all Amazon employees will now make a minimum of $15 hour. And then he called for all other companies to do likewise.

    Everyone knows that inflation is never seen as a problem until worker's wages start to rise. The second that worker's wages start to climb the alarm bell rings and suddenly the sky is falling.

    But it wasn't just the announcement of Bezos ratcheting up wages. It also was the delayed reporting that those wage increases came with loss of bonuses and stock grants to employees.

    Considering the Trump tax cuts flooded corporate boardrooms with tons of heady cash for stock repurchases, increased dividends, and CEO bonuses, and the fact they have been quite stingy letting it trickle down to their work forces, This bit of Amazonian slap-and-tickle landed like a thud in the punch bowl.

    What better a signal needed for all those companies and high rollers recently cashed up on newly engorged stocks to give themselves an early Christmas present by taking a little some-some off the table.

    Plus the sell off was large enough for the shorts to pull in a little early Christmas cheer as well. Holiday season started early this year!

  78. @medianone --- Should have included that the above comment was a bit of tongue-in-cheek sarcasm. Everyone likes to boil complex issues down to one "Lock her up!" chant or soundbite, so I took liberties invoking Bezos as the reason the sky was falling this week.

  79. Periodically, for as long as I can remember, we're treated to pictures of anxious traders on a floor somewhere, looking up with concern at a declining board. The next week/day/hour, the market stabilizes and they get back to their usual numbers-game grind of making obscene money for themselves and the rich, with a few dollars going to modest investors.
    If this were actually a useful enterprise culturally, socially, even socio-economically, ok. But it isn't. It's a minority of people getting richer, then poorer, then richer again. Not relevant.

  80. @James
    Except if you have a 401K or pension you are one of the people whom this directly affects. Definitely Relevant.

  81. The world economy is like a stone soup. We all add a little of this or that and hope it tastes okay and that there is enough to go around. But now it’s turning orange and has a bunch of yellow hair in it and nobody wants to be the first to sample it.

  82. @R. Koreman --- Trump thought he was the soup stone. Where everyone else would be bringing edibles to throw in the pot, while he supplied nothing but the myth.

  83. 90% are computer trades, beware the quants. They don't care if it is up or down.

  84. Whay happened to the Trump Bump??

    More like Trump Slump/Trump Dump.

    And, this free-fall is happening with the election just 26 days away!!

    More tariffs...more tax breaks for the 1%ers...more, more, more.

  85. Likely a Trump "Pump and Dump" -- we should demand that the SEC investigate trading activity of the Trumps and all their associates before and after comments and actions that DJT has taken to artificially put his thumb on the scale of the DOW.

  86. The only way we can get away from this false idea that the stock market is a measure of the actual economy for everyday schlubs like myself is for news outlets like the NYT to stop obsessing over it. So the NASDAQ dropped 4 percent. Ask how many people this affects. Answer: 1%.

  87. @MR

    More than half of Americans have invested in equities over the last half century. Many Americans do not even realize their 401k’s and Pensions are invested in equities.

  88. If not for Trump and his dopey trade wars, this economy would still be soaring.

  89. That plus the tax cuts and huge increases in spending.

  90. Not very good reporting, the NY Times shouldn't be second guessing markets. As I write this (11:20 AM Eastern time), The S&P 500 has fallen over 1% today. Stop this kind of reporting.

  91. Trump the chaos President. Chaos in our Economy is Trump's fault. Vote out GOP. Ray Sipe

  92. This is a strange article. The volatility index opened today a touch lower than yesterday, but still much higher than any time in the last three months. To make an article stating that anxieties are relenting that is counter to an actual measurements of such anxieties seems to just be poor journalism.

  93. Why did the fed raise rates when the data shows inflation is soft and not a problem? What is the uncertainty in their forecasting? That seems like a good way to choke off growth. Maybe they will skip the next rate increase. If most of the loans are in US dollars around the world then low inflation makes it harder for those companies to pay off debt.

    If bond yields are higher then it makes sense that people would diversify into what is considered to be the safer asset. However, I think this puts us in a better place to avoid a bond yield inversion.

  94. @PictureBook Because high interest rates benefit wealthy investors which is the main goal of this corrupt administration.

  95. @PictureBook

    Inflation sure is a problem for me! It is contributing to the bigger than expected deficits this year, which in turn gave cover for the president to say "there's no room in the budget to give the federal workforce a wage increase" which in turn will mean I have less purchasing power than I did last year (even after factoring in any changes to my bottom line from the TCJA).

    Granted, it isn't the Reagan years, but inflation is certainly cutting into my purchasing power right now.

  96. What we're seeing now: bubbles pop - and the hugest Trumpian bubbles of all leave us with nothing but a sorry wet trail of back to the blowhard who inflated them.

    We should be smarter than this. Obama rescued the economy after the last GOP administration bankrupted it. Instead, Republicans voted in a 6-time bankrupt president. Why? It's a lot of fun for wealthy people to spend other people's money. While Republicans spend and spend to the tune of Trump's irresponsible trillion dollar deficit, Democrats understand that we need a functioning, sustainable middle class to drive real demand for goods, services, real estate - and logical tax and education policies that reinvest in the infrastructure that builds individual and corporate financial success. In short, Democrats work to elevate the whole playing field instead of propping up an oligarchic few while the vast majority suffer down below. It's hard work, for committed people - and there are no shortcuts.

    VOTE Democratic for real growth and prosperity. The lasting kind.

  97. I left out a word - probably obvious!

    ...trail of slime...

  98. You are joking, right?!

  99. @common sense advocate

    Hear, hear.

  100. It took 7 years for the Bush Jr. tax cuts and spending increases to destroy the economy left to him by President Clinton. Trump has done it in less than 2 years.

  101. @HL: The economy grew at a 4.2% clip last quarter. Unemployment is at an historical low of 3.7%. More racial minorities are employed that at any other time in our history. The stock market achieved record highs numerous times in the past 2 years. Americans have more discretionary money in the pockets due to the Trump tax cuts. And you call that a "destroyed economy". Nobody ever said Democrats, liberals and progressives were honest.

  102. The economy grew at 4.2% for one quarter, after Trump gave Wall Street a bunch of free money and then causes a rush on purchasing ahead of a stupid trade war. If we make it to the end of 2019 with yearly growth rate above 4%, you can gloat (But I wouldn't hold your breath).

    Minority unemployment is low, but the rate of change for unemployment (across pretty much all of society) hasn't really changed from 2010. But also, you don't care at all about minority unemployment, and you know you don't, and we all know you don't.

  103. This is a harbinger. The financial system set up by 2016 Republicans is a sure-fire train wreck, and every American knows this, at least in their hearts.

    I doubt Black Friday is tomorrow, however. I don't expect the depression to hit until 2020, with 2019 being up and down.

    At the end, the U.S. will be bankrupt and/or will be using Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security funds to pay interest on the debt caused by the tax reduction for corporations and rich people.

    This is going to lead to a world-wide financial conflagration, and, I believe, Russian, Chinese and Saudi oligarchs will own America. That probably will spark war of some sort.

  104. CNBC today. Roger McNamee , age 62, says he is being conservative with his investments because a long down-in would be harder to recoup in stocks at his age. (Hmmmm?) He appears to lean towards intermediate treasuries now.(Hummmm again.) I just bought some value stock in my Vanguard account anyway. Not much, but this is a new fund for me, and I bought in high and may as well catch some bargains now...?

  105. Why all the partisan attention to the stock market? Most Americans are not directly affected by its ups and downs. It is not a measure of quality of life, and it is not a measure of the prosperity of most Americans. If you are not rich and living off gains, or about to retire, or ready cash out a 529, this news probably has little direct impact on your life. It is only one indicator of the economy. Yes, there is cause and effect, but that is more complicated than "Trump did it, in the oval office, with a pen."

  106. @Syliva, the Times has always reported on the stock market. Reporting has nothing to do with being partisan, and the market's ups and downs directly affect millions of Americans, especially those who invest for their retirement.

    Should the Times report on the downward pressures on the stock market, such as rising interest rates and the trade war with China? I think so, because investors make decisions based on those pressures. Nowhere in the article do I find your phrase "Trump did it, in the oval office, with a pen," but his trade war certainly contributes in a significant way.

  107. Why all the partisan attention to the stock market? Perhaps because Fearless Leader crows at every opportunity about the rising Dow as an indicator of his 'winning' strategy?

    Perhaps because with every fresh abomination, with every new wave of chaos emanating from the White House and Trumpublican enablers in Congress, the retort is always 'are you complaining about this miraculously strong economy?'

    Perhaps because one of Fearless Leader's sure fire applause lines, during his frequent taxpayer-funded appearances before carefully screened red-hatted mobs is "how do you like your 401(k) now"?

    It's true, most of those folks in red hats don't have enough money in the stock market to pay grocery bills for a week; but that doesn't seem to matter to them, any more than it matters that the 'big beautiful tax cut' is going to a handful of people wealthier than they can imagine; or that nobody is really 'bringing back coal,' a fading industry that employs fewer people than amazon employs in Seattle alone; or that the U.S. trade deficit is headed up, not down, despite Trumpublican isolationist trade policies.

    The U.S. economy isn't a closely held business; and its leadership can't beat its chest about 'all this winning' when the picture is rosy; and then hand the disaster to the Bankruptcy Trustee and the creditors' committee when it goes bust - while walking away with a nice fat monthly allowance for the private helicopter.

    Perhaps the red hats will understand that much.

  108. The Times gives little attention to market increases, except to note that they are tenuous. But when the market drops a couple of percentage points, it gets lots of attention.

    The market has done well under Trump. And those of us who despise him need to put that into perspective. Suggesting that a crash is on its way is not objective reporting. What is objective is that the market fluctuates in a way that often has little to do with economic trends.

  109. The gains of the last year vanished in two days. It's a big deal

  110. @michjas This comes from a psychological phenomenon called loss aversion. Simply put, people react much more negatively to losing something they already have than they do positively when they gain something they didn't have.

  111. Just more "American carnage" due to Tariffer Trump and his trade war. It's October; it's the time when all the wizards of Wall Street are back from the Hamptons and taking stock (pun intended) of the trade war between the world's two largest economies, the rise in interest rates, the massive U.S. debt, and the end of the tax cut sugar high. A perfect storm is brewing and it's not Hurricane Michael; it's financial deregulation; massive U.S. debt resulting from an unaffordable tax cut forcing interest rates up and up; and the economic shock of China-U.S. trade war. Could it just be 2008 "deja vu all over again"?

  112. and gold is finally panning out (pun intended)

  113. “Joe Torres signals to the bullpen *enter the sandman blares on the speakers* here comes the closer Barack Hussein Obama from the bullpen to save this game once again”. If only we had a bullpen for when things start going south and we can pull the starter....

  114. America is just another casino for Trump to bankrupt.

  115. Who is surprised?
    It takes the Democrats
    years to rebuild until
    greedy Republicans
    want so much that it
    crashes (again). The
    .00001% are not hurt.
    They have so much
    they can gamble for more.
    The little & middle suffer.

  116. World Markets down. Thanks Trump. Chaos President "Promises made;Promises kept". Trump is delivering on this one. World Economy in down spiral. GOP ; crickets. Trump playlist of World Hate is paying deep dividends for Trump; for us citizens; not at all. Ray Sipe

  117. And Trump's latest whipping boy is the Federal Reserve. He is incredibly adept at blame shifting, and has almost elevated it to an art form.

  118. This may be what not knowing anything about economics, world trade, and just plain un-fradulent business looks like.

    Are you tired of winning yet? Tired of being in a reality TV show you otherwise wouldn't watch in a thousand years?

  119. "It seems that the economy always does better when the Democrats are in charge." - Donald Trump.
    You can find video of him saying the above comment.

  120. @susan Historically, that has been true.

  121. I’m so glad that I never bothered to become emotionally attached to a political party.

    Also, that I made sure to learn what ‘bad faith’ actually is. And now I’m nauseous.

  122. @ubique

    Nausea sounds about right, as I begin the slow drawdown of son's college savings....

    I acted in good faith and feel a bit duped by the fact that this sell-off is probably related to tariffs and the TCJA deficits.

  123. Hold on to your hat, it's going to be a bumpy ride.

  124. Why the world economies are dependant on peoples fickle emotions when they either decide to buy or sell shares is beyond me!
    It's a mad artificial world propped up by government debt when things go pear shaped. Only really true investment is property. Tangible assets always win over intangible assets where you still have a property at the end of a crash. People always need somewhere to live and something to eat or drink.

  125. @CK
    So--ideally you need a property with garden space and you need to have the know-how to till, plant, weed & water and harvest. Oh if we only all had the sense to do this! It would be a better world, and if you had a small wood lot and room for a goat you'd be all set barring bombs, hurricanes, drought, locusts etc.

  126. I agree with one caveat: climate change and rising sea levels due to melting of the polar ice caps is raising sea levels throughout the world and spawning massive hurricanes like the massive category 4 storm that just hit Florida in the States. Much of the world's most valuable real estate is located in coastal areas. Boston is already concerned about the impact of rising seas on a downtown high rise office buildings and multi-million dollar condominiums that are in danger of flooding.

  127. This sell-off is overdue but it's more about the trade tactics than interest rate increases. The pResident should take ownership of this selling just as well as the credit for when it was going up.

    Heading into the elections too. Nice timing .....

  128. @Heywally Maybe this is Wall Street voting against trump. Interesting thought.

  129. A pretty tortured analysis to arrive at a conclusion that confounds 100 years of market history.

    Interest rates going up is not good new for this market. The notion that rates will rise as fast as they are, but that inflation will not result, is flat wrong. In fact, when interest rates are as low as they are, even small moves in interest rates can have outsized inflationary impacts. Mr. Irwin is whistling past the graveyard.

    The market has not yet digested the recent increase in yields and the new Fed Chair promises further increases. Each time, the market will fall.

    Interest rates, in any event, are not the only concern about inflation by any stretch. Trump's tariffs have not yet had their full effect, the deficit is rising, and there is no one at the economic wheel.

    The market is struggling today, but it's still a pause that refreshes, draws in rookie investors, and will then drop again.

    I don't think this column represents advice that seasoned investors will follow. We are all scratching our heads as to why stocks and bonds fell the same day yesterday.

    I'm in cash.

  130. Lots of start up NZ businesses are getting crowdfunding to grow their businesses and that way they don't have debt and interest rates don't affect them.
    Also, think of it this way, it spreads the wealth around instead of a selected few people owning everything so the more of the public that profit from the businesses growth through shareholdings then the more locals who spend locally so businesses profit and the governments tax take goes up.
    I've bought a few shares on Pledge Me start ups that want to expand their businesses; medicinal cannabis, Ocho chocolate, and intending to invest in The New Zealand Whiskey Company. When the economy collapses people always have money for booze, chocolate.

  131. The Fed raised interest rates 3 times in 2017 during which time the DOW grew by 25%. Blaming the current drop in the market on rising interest rates is absurd. Of course we have the chaos of Trump’s trade wars but I’m not sure if this in itself spooked the market. Someone more knowledgeable should fill in the blanks on overvalued stocks, p/e, etc.

  132. The Chinese economy suffers from excessive government intervention while our American economy suffers from too little. Despite President Trump’s unwise politically motivated initiation of a trade war, our government must take measures to democratize our financial system and corporate governance to promote broad prosperity and reverse the inequitable concentration of wealth at the top of the socioeconomic ladder. After all, we are supposed to be a democracy. (Cue up the laugh track). We must accept the fact that there is no such thing as a free market economy devoid of government intervention. Governments routinely pick economic winners and losers through their lawmaking and regulatory powers. The issue is finding the proper balance between government intervention and market freedom, one that preserves freedom, promotes invention, and rewards risk-taking while creating the broadest prosperity possible and promoting social responsibility.

  133. The stock market went up almost every day during Trump's reign. That is NOT normal. It doesn't even seem possible. Maybe if we were coming out of a recession and there was a major recovery going on. That was not the case.

    My thought is that the stock market was voting for themselves everyday since the election. They've been manipulating the market for their own gain. Economic indicators and reality have been waiting in the wings for months.

    Now Trump says the Fed doesn't know what they're doing, and he's the genius. MORE LIES.

    Who ya gonna blame next, Donnie?

  134. @TrumpLiesMatter

    The buck stops ANYWHERE but here. Our POTUS.

  135. @TrumpLiesMatter

    He'll blame Soros. And you know who that really means.

  136. @TrumpLiesMatter Yes, the market went up because of the tax cut stimulus injected a lot of cash into the economy. The pros expected corporate profits to increase. Simple. But the tax cut is like drinking another shot when you are already twice the legal limit. You may feel good in the moment, but it's going to be a massive hangover. And it will be compounded by the disastrous tariffs.

  137. My son just left for college. We thought we were prepared to handle the expense.

    It kills me to think that I saved for college all these years to have my efforts squandered by tariffs, political squabbles and an unwise tax cut.

  138. @Lydia

    Well, you could have saved cash.
    Was it really worth all those fees and paltry interest all those years just to see it all evaporate as it if never existed. If you saved cash, you'd still have cash. Yea, I realize "adjusted for inflation" bla bla bla. It's STILL cold hard cash.

  139. It's just the large investors cashing out the gains. Stock increases don't matter of they are only on paper. Once the market has dropped enough they will buy back in with many times over the buying power.

  140. The "Trump Bear Market" is upon us. The reasons are the trade war with China, the "Trup Tax Cut" for the ultra wealthy causing the $1 trillion deficit, the lousy salaries paid to the average worker in the US, who cannot afford more than bare necessities or decent health care or a secure retirement. In addition, many of the under 50 year olds have college debt that crushes them. I am surprised this did not happen earlier.

  141. Who cares about China, etc? With the gloomy news coming from the IPCC, that to me is the impetus for the stock drop. It's time to pause and take notice that our life support system is in peril. Economic growth is nothing compared to what humanity is facing. Carbon tax here we come! Let's do it now. There's no time to waste!

  142. Just in time for midterm elections! Nothing like a significant market correction to generate enthusiasm for the opposition party.

    Let's listen - do we hear Fearless Leader crowing about 'what I've done for your 401(k)' at the next gathering of his bellowing, red-hatted lynch mob? Of course, in the Brave New Fact Free World, he just might do it anyway. After all, those folks are gathered to hear Trump's Greatest Hits, not to grapple with reality.

  143. @chambolle I expect him to do exactly that: he'll claim that someone else is causing this market crash and that his policies are the only way to stop it. His cultists will believe him.

  144. There is literally no support whatsoever historically for throwing wealth at the very rich while starving the poor. This cruel method invariably leads to economic collapse. Noam Chomsky has written about this most cogently in recent years.

    The clown, Trump, is a shield against the Social Darwinist/Fascist ethic that is fully integrated with the current, decayed Republican party ethos... starve the poor. Let then eat paper towels. Take their insurance. Pollute their streams. Foul their air.

    Take their money. Prop up the country clubs the Mar-a- Lagos and the gated communities, and in point of fact initiate a kind of slow genocide of all but the billionaires. Sure enough, you will collapse the economy every decade or so.

  145. This self-inflicted market sell-off is single handedly created by Trump's protectionism and initiation of tradewar.

  146. Why isn't Trump bragging about the market now?

  147. This drop is going to continue and get even worst . The pretend economic growth that trump said was the greatest is now on the way down.

  148. This can be Mr. trump's tweaks?

  149. What did your mommy used to say?
    " too much of a good thing ( candy ) will make you sick"
    The economy is red hot.
    Everybody has a job.
    Things have not been this good in many decades.
    A cooling off period is needed.
    If I had to pick a good reason why the market is down,,this is it.
    Unfortunately politics is in play , again, and there are some here that hate Trump so much that they would rather see the market go down and loose their own money.
    A powerful form of hatred to have to live with , I feel sorry for you.

  150. @Joe Paper Do not conflate the desire for financial trouble with a dislike of Trump. No one "wants" bad times. However, Trump is giving us lots of bad times. There's no good reason to send markets into anxiety, but his policies do just that. That's not good governance.

    (Oh - and he's a terrible person, too.)

  151. Everyone has two or three low wage jobs.

  152. @Joe Paper Now, if only the jobs paid a living wage and the middle class was not being hollowed-out. No, the people, not the stock market, are not 'red hot'.

  153. I wouldn't call it a "wobble", I would call it a Crash.....no the question is just how did crooked Hilary cause it?

  154. Unintentionally hilarious. Where are all of the usual suspects on the NYT comment thread shouting that the stock market performance is all Obama's doing? Hello? Hello?

  155. The economy, is the continuation of Obama’s economic policies. The stock market is not the economy. The stock market can destroy a good company stock based on a rumor. The stock market is essentially buying and selling money.

  156. @Jordan Dude, Obama did a great job with the economy during his watch, it's now in Trump's court, and he's quickly destroying any gains that were made!!

  157. exactly it would be climbing fine bc of obama, but Trump undid all banking regulations, and then started a trade war with everyone .... I mean He is a Genius who has filed bankrupcy 6 times....

  158. I hope the "market" takes a nose dive and stays there, which is what it should do, given that it's nothing but a rich man's shell game, with rules written by the rich men, and in favor of the already-rich man.
    These people seem to thrive on "speculation." How about investing in something real and tangible.

  159. With the Trump tax payday, they didn’t invest in workers or infrastructure. They instead bought back stock and hoarded the extra money. Trickledown is a scam.

  160. @matty Please, I have my retirement as on Optional (read Stock Market) Retirement fund. There are lots of folk like me, 65, due to retire next year, and now what? That is all I had to live on. Took a big hit in 2008, and they told me if I could hold out another 10 years, I'd be OK. And I am NOT a rich man.

  161. Pension funds and working people's retirement funds are invested in stocks.

  162. The protectionism on USA goods is high because if you look at The New Zealand Whisky Collection website, under investment, they don't export to the USA and I'd say that has something to do with protectionism and that hasn't just happened overnight, as there has always been tariffs on some USA goods. The world isn't going the way of tariffs as there are lots of free trade agreements that are in progress and trending now.

  163. @CKOops! A correction - they don't ship to the USA because of high taxes: You need to buy from an international stockist from within USA - Hotaling & Co.

  164. @CK Yes, all the above. Analysts still try to understand the economic situation as though it was still a 1950's "circular flow" model. Not. Everything is interconnected, macro, floating currencies; floating everything. "Creditopia." Now I see DJT is criticizing the Fed. Down the slippery slope.

  165. Well, Trump takes credit for the bullish stock market. Will he accept blame when it goes bearish? Inquiring minds want to know. Nah, I already know.

  166. @Glevine During the 8 years of Obama's presidency, my IRAs had slow but steady growth. Under Trump, they seem to go up and down in a jerky fashion. And this week they've been way down.

  167. @Glevine Took the words right out of my mouth!

  168. Stanton's sure-fire, never-fail, ten-point primer for weathering stock-market storms.

    1. What goes round comes round, i.e., market breaks eventually repair themselves, more or less.

    2. Inflation is perpetual and ongoing; regardless of what the government may claim, the money in your pocket is always declining in worth.

    3. Buy and hold common stocks that produce products that people want and need such as food, drugs and oil; that have long track records of success. Avoid banks and financial companies looking to make a fast buck; and flashy new technology and entertainment companies where the chances for success over the long term are slim. Boring companies that produce products like minerals and chemicals are safer and will often do much better in the long run.

    4. Favor dividend-paying stocks. Avoid cash, bonds and annuities like the plague they are.

    5. Reinvest dividends, whenever possible.

    6. Keep informed about the state of your investments, but do not obsess about them. Checking the state of your investments on an hour-by-hour basis is a pathway to financial ruination.

    7. If you cannot tolerate risk, move into a police station. Life is risky.

    8. Sell only when all your instincts tell you to. Otherwise hold, hold and hold some more.

    9. Gold is a good investment. But only in the sense that stocking up on guns, ammunition, canned goods and water is a good investment.

    10. Save, save and save much more.

  169. Global markets require stability to thrive. The US market also depend on stability; such as strong confident economies that can count on and trust its trading partners. President Trump has roiled the world wide economic order causing severe disarray.

    Hopefully, this minor correction is just a bump in the road. Without a major change to our (lack of) diplomatic stance the long term forecast is dim.

  170. In 1750, wealthy people owned, dominated, and controlled EVERYTHING economic, and political (and to an extent, religious and social) for nothing other than their own benefit.

    Since then a variety of events occurred that changed this world order. Enlightened revolutions ushered in eras of political & economic reforms. The industrial & scientific revolutions created technologies that ushered in the modern industrial age. Populations exploded & were accommodated only thanks to new technologies that cured illnesses and produced more food.
    But the most important difference during this time was the rise of a middle class driving innovation and demanding changes in the social, political and economic order. No one can argue that this was to the detriment to anyone, other than the wealthy and political elite

    The middle class was the foundation of economic diversity and stability that created a vision of prosperity for generations even as the wealthy continued to prosper.

    Today we are faced with a backlash from the super wealthy, those who seek nothing other than to own and control everything again. As in 1750, the wealth of the entire world is becoming dominated by very few.

    It's high time the super wealthy realize that we're all better off in a situation where the wealthy do not own and control everything and where a middle class thrives.

  171. Well put.

    It is true also that a republic depends upon a stable middle class for survival. The wealthiest are happy with authoritarian right wing government that protects their wealth, and devil take the hind-most. A population heavily weighted with poor is ripe for revolution. Witness the Great Depression. Read Grapes of Wrath.

  172. @matty This time around let's just use a guillotine of taxes.

  173. @matty
    Agree. With the added complication the we now posses the capacity to produce all the goods and services that we need to survive with about 50% of the human resources. Can you imagine half of the world population jobless?

    And let us not get into the environmental devastation. Water wars anyone?

    If we don't start engaging in intelligent conversation about this soon...

    Meanwhile, back at the White House, the twit tweets his tantrums.

  174. In the middle of all this, the Bankrupt One declares the Fed `out of control'. We live in a very, very strange time.

  175. Let's say you are 60 and have been socking it away for nearly a decade. You have been feeling good about taking the high risk road but starting to worry about taking any more risks. The idea of losing 20% is too much. Everything political, including the impending failures of federal agencies due to mismanagement, seems highly risky. The debt picture in the US looks risky. Seems like its too late to take it off the table, but the thought of losing more messed with your sleep last night. Does this look like a Dow of 18,000?

  176. In the past, Donald Trump has boasted that he was responsible for the rise in the stock market so he must now take blame for the decline.

  177. And why should the wealthy worry about the economy? They have every incentive to crash it. That’s when they swoop in and buy real estate at rock bottom dollar and then sit on it for another generation. In the meantime, their lifestyle is not affected one whit, and they may even be saved by the taxpayers. Win-win.

  178. @Louisa Glasson I 100% agree that they purposely tank our economy just to buy on the cheap. It's disgusting!

  179. Herbert Hoover in 1929, Eisenhower in 1958, Reagan in 1987, among Bush in 2008--GOP fiscal incompetence in action, and its results.

  180. Republicans break it.

    Democrats fix it.

    And the Know Nothings keep on demanding more Republican punishment.

    What a dumb collection of voters America has.

  181. Perhaps Americans voters will see their portfolios take a hit and finally decide they’ve had enough of Trump’s headstrong, nonsensical attitudes with respect to the global economy and trade. Important social issues may not register well with centrist voters, but money talks. Democrats across the country need to be talking up this issue if this decline continues as the midterms grow ever-closer. Hopefully they will capitalize and help turn a potential blue wave into a tsunami so we can get some semblance of sanity back in our federal government.

  182. I’ve taken one hit on my retirement already (can you say September 29, 2008). Now instead of being 49 I’m 59. I wish I didn’t have to take another one. Rainbows and Unicorns.

  183. @Sally Same with me, lost so much in 2008, told me I'd need to hold out another 10 years, I am NOW 65 and planned to retire spring of next year at 66. Now what????

  184. It may be worth noting for future reference that ‘The Golden Rule’ does not function well with King Midas and his court of jesters.

    Glad tidings to all. We’re saying Merry Christmas again.

  185. Every good Republican knew through the past decades that adding to the country's debt without any plan as to how to pay that debt would put the economy in jeopardy. Every good Republican knew throughout that time that tariff wars and trade spats would actually harm Americans. I believe those good Republicans still know this. One day soon, they will act on that knowledge.

  186. Simon Potter....'good Republican' ?

    That ship sailed 38 years ago.

  187. I do not believe that all those sensible people have suddenly been rendered doltish or amnesiac. They have for a time been rendered impotent, or unwilling. It is a tragedy but it is not irreversible.

  188. @Simon Potter Are there any of them left (good Republican)? I thought we now have the Party of Trump, not the GOP.

  189. First there was the Trump Bump.

    Now, sit back enjoy the Trump Slump.

  190. It's not Trump's fault!!!

    Its all the Federal Reserve!

    Trump only gets CREDIT - remember that!

    When the market goes up, it is *all* due to the brilliant policy genius of Trump - "reducing regulations", being tough on China, "bringing manufacturing jobs back".

    When the market goes sideways, and companies (or farmers) start talking about the problems tariffs are causing - that's all Obama's fault... or the Fed's fault. Never, ever Trump's fault.

    Remember Reagan, with his 'teflon suit'? Trump has teflon all the way through... solid. That's why he does the things he does - he's always, his entire life, skated by responsibility, skated by consequences. Bluster, brag, deflect, lie, threaten - but never, ever, ever take responsibility.

    Question for the rest of us - Why do we let him get away with it?!

  191. No cause for alarm. I'm sure when he sees he needs to, Fred Trump will step in and fix whatever his son has broken. It's always worked that way in the past and Fred is still around, right?

  192. I can assure you one thing, if on January 2O, 2012 the stock market began to drop so far and fast that several of the worst days in it's history, if it had taken until October for it to recover just to the same place and then it lost all that value in a week, the attacks on Obama would have been defining. Instead the Times calls this a wobble and suggests that somehow it will hurt the Democrats....maybe it was all rigged by crooked Hilary.

  193. Let the twitnit in chief tweet and complain all he wants about how Jerome Powell is ruining "his fine economy"...Drumpf bashed Yellen for keeping rates low during the campaign. When, oh when, will his boorish/cultish base realize they've been the biggest "marks" in US history? The hedge funds, the investment banks, the private equity folks all got "their" via the tax cuts and they've surely squirreled away their mega millions as the market begins its meltdown.

  194. Maybe the drops have been because China is stealing the US blind, you know, that widening trade deficit that has actually grown under Trump.

  195. Good. Perhaps just a bit of sanity.

  196. Trump/GOP chaos economic theory working to perfection. Give the filthy rich 1% tons of free money; slap tariffs on friends and enemies alike; blow the deficit through the roof. Perfection! Vote out the GOP. Now please. Ray Sipe

  197. @Ray Sipe-Add in the next cuts to the safety net (Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security) and then privatize more government functions. Voting is key but the GOP is bent on disenfranchising more voters--Georgia, North Dakota, etc. being some of the latest. Apparently, it's easy to keep people from voting.

  198. End of the empire? Or just the end of your 401? Either way, the poor working guy or gal who voted for Trump loses.

  199. There is a relationship between a single one day downturn in the stock market and POTUS criticism of Federal Reserve. Because, you know it's someone else's fault and he is soooooo much smarter. From the man who took quite a while to understand why we weren't USING nuclear weapons.

  200. If I was a Chinese investor I would get my money out of China and into America where your money is safe and the government does not lie about bad economic news.

    Remember the Chinese famines when the Mao government lied about food scarcity and bad crops.

  201. @JJackson

    What do the Mao famines have to do with today?

  202. China limits the amount of money that can be freely taken out of the country to less than $10,000 per year. There are many exceptions, some legal, some not, but the Chinese government has many controls that limit Chinese from moving capital outside of China.

  203. Now we'll really see how "gut" and "instinct" affect the stock market. It's been a giddy ride up to this point, taking gains while overlooking the utter moral and ethical bankruptcy of the Trump administration. In America, it's the God Almighty dollar which rules and tanked investments may prove finally to be Trump's true downfall. He has such an outstanding record as a don, errrr, businessman after all...

  204. All is transitory.

  205. "The Trump administration also moved to more closely scrutinize corporate deals by foreign investors in the United States, a step aimed primarily at China."

    China should have had the foresight to support Trump and launder their money through the Trump Organization like Trump's Russian benefactor, Putin. Guess they missed the Trump boat.

  206. We have an unstable head of state who holds zombie ideas about things that are not within his area of expertise and who is surrounded by a cabinet of sycophants.

    We have an unstable head of state who is managing areas of our governance for which there is supposed to be an appointed head of cabinet. On trade, we know he's told Wilbur Ross to stay out of it. Congress has intervened minimally.

    We have an economy that is tied to other economies by virtue of trade agreements and years of corporate policy of offshoring jobs in return for cheap goods. While some might see this as detrimental to American workers, yanking deals as Trump has isn't the way to go.

    Trump, overall, has cast a destabilizing influence that not even Wall Street, which had been doing amazingly well, can ignore. Stock trade, in the end, depends on companies that are stable and able to do business. Trump just slammed a huge poke in the wheel.

    The Tax Scam Bill is the mother of all mortgages and a majority of the jobs that have been created are not sustaining jobs, with sustaining hours or sustaining pay.

    Prices which are expected to rise not only on electronic doodads, but food, clothing, fuel and a variety of other staples, as a result of Trump's war on China, should be of concern to all. Our version Nero is burning down our economy while the Republican Congress, content to have given away the candy store, does nothing.

    Things Trump did while you weren't looking

  207. Ms. La Garde calls for a trading system that is fair. I find v
    it incredulous that La Garde doesn't understand that the CCP isn't interested in fair. The CCP wants all the marbles in the game, and they are more than willing to lie, cheat, and steal to win. The big problem for the CCP is that they can never achieve a western style economy without giving up control of Chinese society. Unless the CCP changes its ways confrontation with the west is probably inevitable.

  208. I still believe irrational exuberance will prevail into 2019 for awhile, but I’m getting out of securities big time by the 2nd qtr 2020. The coming tailspin will ensure Trump’s defeat. And we will be looking at a long bear market as we dig ourselves out of $3 trillion national debt.

  209. @Phaedrus

    $3 trillion? Trump would not only have to balance the budget but, would also have to pay off $18 trillion in debt between now and then for that to occur.

  210. Historically, a bear market has followed an initial run-up when a Republican President follows a two-term Democrat. Course Trump is not a Republican. And his budget-busting tax cut is not a Republican policy. But trees don’t grow to the sky, no matter what the government uses to prop them up.

  211. America according to our Gropenfuerher Commander In Chief America seems to becoming not only great again, but invincible to economic blowback from his blustering and risky duels with leaders like China. Of course being a master miscalculater Trump never really weighed the consequences of his dueling tariffs with China, which are now being played out on Wall Street.

  212. Trump and Republicans created a huge budgetary deficit (through their notorious tax-cut) that continues to accumulate every year. For the US governmet to keep borrowing money in order to pay off its deficit, it needs to borrow money. It is natural that the interest rate goes up in the face of stronger demand for money. The higher interest rate hinders corporate activities in private sectors, as hinted at in this article. It also stifles the governmental activities, because the goverment cannot pay off its deficit cheaply anymore.
    In short, the Trump-Republican tax-cut was doomed to fail the US economy from the beginning.

  213. Looks like the handwriting could be on the Wall Street wall now. Not good news when the country is in such turmoil about so many issues, including the upcoming elections, the China market menace, and the devastation caused by Hurricanes Florence and Michael.

    We knew that a correction was bound to happen, but this is a terrible time for the market to start plummeting—let's hope that investors don't choose now to lose their nerve and all start bailing at the same time.

    Talk about fastening our seat belts for a bumpy ride

  214. The worse than expected and ominous climate report on Monday portends immense and expensive climate mitigation responses by the world's governments.
    I propose that such news and Trump's shrug about the report, continuing his disbelieve and ignorance about climate change, contribute to stock investors' economic concerns and negative outlook, leading to the markets' declines.

  215. I knew toilet paper on his shoe would bring bad luck.

  216. "The simple solution to stop this is cut the corporate taxes to 15%" - The GOP