Putting on my Alex whatshisname conspiratorial hat, I ask this question: Is the alleged Jamal Khashoggi killing in the Saudi embassy a Trumpian message to American journalists and opponents? Maybe he has a "deep state wet works team" in place...
Seriously the best of the worst options the U.S. has in this Saudi quagmire is to pack up the military and its "protection" of the Saudi regime and leave. Let the Arabs handle an Arab problem.
Any pretensions to being a Geo-political player in the region failed dramatically in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria, Libya, Yemen, the horn of Africa and elsewhere in the region. We are only expending American lives, making enemies, on borrowed monies from China and others.
Whoever has control over the oil wants to sell it. We want oil, we can buy it. Why are we there propping up this regime?
Unless there is a double secret plan cooked up by Trump, Kushner, their neocon fellow travelers, the Saudis and Israel to start another ill-conceived war in Iran. Could this happen and can we afford it?
3
If the Sauis abducted and/or killed Mr. Khashoggi, we must sanction them. A good start would be the end of funding for their proxy war in Yemen.
We can't afford to have an ally that preys on anyone, let alone journalists, who disagrees with their political policies.
But I hold little hope that the Trump administration will bother to pretend to care, given that it is trying to hamper mainstream journalists itself.
8
You're way too kind in both your initial 'hope' for real reforms from MBS and your updated assessment of him. He's an authoritarian THUG! Nothing more nor less. His dark side is his only side. The same could be said about Putin, Erdogan, Orban, Duterte, and our boy in the White House. It's all dark, Mr. Friedman, all dark... Take off the entitled, rose-colored glasses and smell the money, oil and power.
18
If he was murdered no one will be called before justice and life under the rule of men will go on as usual.
Prayer has never worked as well as bullets.
3
Sorry Mr. Friedman but you are not persuasive! Do you think we have forgotten the praises you sung for MBS last year? You were obviously not the only one, given his world wide "charm tour". But I want to hold you on a higher standard. Unless you think that the transient, ill-begotten, power can obliterate simple principles of humanity.
Just be honest and admit the murderous character of the Saudi regime, and its current incarnation in MBS.
16
I would paraphrase what President Rouhani of Iran recently said of Saudi Arabia. "It would be nice if they actually had ELECTIONS". Meaning that Iran considers itself to be far more advanced politicly than Saudi Arabia. You really have to wonder.
9
I do not see this as a major concern for President Trump. In pursuing "peace" with North Korea, he seems to have relegated Otto Warmbier to ancient history. He will do the same with Jamal Khashoggi. These murders are just affairs of state which are really none of our business, since they are the doings of the fine people who are Mr. Trump's friends.
7
I fail to understand how it's bad for the dictatorship. It's a dictatorship. People have no say there. Maybe we should stop propping it up with our money and our weaponry.
7
"It would be an unfathomable violation of norms of human decency, worse not in numbers but in principle than even the Yemen war."
Worse than the killing of tens of thousands of Yemeni citizens!? What principle trumps the starvation of thousands?
6
A Saudi Crown Prince does not need the "China model" to get rid of anyone. He needs the acquiescence of the powerful members of the Saudi Royal Family. MBS has already secured the loyalty through his internment and harassment of prominent members of the Saudi Royal family, ostensibly to root out corruption. He is now free to to do whatever he wishes. I doubt international pressure will have much effect on him. I wonder if Mr Friedman feels a tad bit of remorse for his qualified praise of MBS. Maybe that praise had a small effect to embolden MBS to pursue his perceived enemies?
4
I agree with Mr Friedman - but we should also look at ourselves, aren't we the ones who have a program of kidnapping and eliminating "terrorists" abroad without due process? I remember reading an article on NYT and it was referred to as "extraordinary rendition" program. There were agents in Italy that were kidnapped without any type of due process. Many other nations do the same, Russia, Israel etc. to name a few....isn't this just a version of that strategy?
4
It's pretty clear that the pendulum is swinging to the dark side in the middle east, and here in the USA. It will swing back eventually, but there will be a lot of damage done first.
4
Mr. Friedman should know that the main beneficiary in Kashoggi's disappearance is Turkey's Erdogan, who has a serious conflict with Saudi Arabia. Kashoggi was never a serious threat for Saudi Arabia, and having him disappear inside a consulate would be the height of stupidity for a regime known for its craftiness.
1
Can anyone explain why Mr Khashoggi had to get this paperwork from the Saudi consulate? Islam permits a man to have up to 4 wives, and a man can divorce his wife by reciting a simple formula. Mr Khashoggi wanted to marry a Turkish woman in Muslim Turkey— so why did he need to enter the consulate? What was Turkey’s role in all this prior to his disappearance?
3
Here’s my thought regarding Jamal Khashoggi. He was many feel likely killed over his comments and reporting about the Saudis and criticizing Trump. Ok. How about mentioning that he’s the nephew of Trumps old friend (whose daughter is still close to the Trump family) billionaire Adnan Khashoggi Saudi international arms merchant, gun runner, huge dealer, implicated and charged in the “arms for hostages” deal with Iran.” The point is Trump - Kusnher - Saudi huge arms deal has a lot of US money to kickback.
The Saudis probably got rid of him to please Trump. It could be the start of Trump related assassination of critics moving forward. Oh, Trump bought Adnan Khashoggi yacht in the late 80s. A senate inquiry into that deal might not work. Get with it NYT.
6
Nothing like the kidnapping or murder of a journalist to focus the mind of a journalist. Now, we have Tom Friedman (and Michelle Goldberg) decrying the Saudi regime and especially M.B.S. (Never trust someone who is called by only initials, like W., it usually means other people are afraid to speak their name.) The crimes and abuses of M.B.S. are almost on a scale of those perpetrated by W. (remember the unnecessary, misdirected, stupid, catastrophic, obscenely tragic Iraq War, which Friedman also supported). But as long as journalists weren't getting killed it was all OK. Maybe this Khashoggi tragedy will at least have some positive repercussions.
8
Saudis' money in millions will be pouring to public relation companies and politicians to distract and let these murderes get off hook.
3
Since the flow of oil from Iran is disrupted by Trump's actions, he needs the Saudi OPEC support to prevent gas prices from continuing to rise. Trump's wheeling and dealing blindly in the short term will backfire on him and on the US.
To force the Saudi's to increase oil output, Trump is either selling or giving them advance weapons to support their ambitious aggression's. To them, and everyone else on the international stage, Trump is simply a 'useful idiot'.
In the meantime: Rosenstein spent time with Trump on AF 1. Now, according to Trump, they are best friends. The reality may be that Trump has threatened Rosenstein and his family, Putin style. This may effect Mueller's effectiveness. If that is true, then the Putin/Trump coup has taken place.
2
If you find yourself dependent on the government of Erdogan to "get to the bottom" of Khashoggi case, you're in deep trouble!
6
"Western investors" need not be mentioned multiple times in the same breathe as genocide in Yemen, putting the largest military base in the Middle East in harms way, arresting actvists and the disappearance and possible murder of a journalist.
MBS's extravagance prior to appointing himself the heir was well known and a pattern dictators employ, their personal self interests over their desire to improve the welfare of citizens in their countries. They need to undermine or eliminate the free press in order to succeed and maintain control.
Those with no conscience and practice corruption as a means to achieve their goals are drawn to each other, they speak the same language
It was not surprising reading the NYT headline today Kushner, Trump campaign officials were involved Saudi support during the electoral process, their feet hit Saudi soil on their first foriegn trip. Israel's participation prior to the election regarding their agenda, moving the Embassy to Jerusalem and dropping out of the Iran deal was achieved.
MBS is a fraud of the worst kind just like the cheap self promoter Trump and his cabal of misfits. You wouldn't want any of them as neighbors or in the work place.
5
When Friedman wrote his first article praising the “reformer”MBS I commented that arresting and detaining persons without due process, shaking them down for loyalty pledges and money, kidnapping the President of Lebanon could not be considered reform. Neither is constraining the power base of radical clerics. These actions were the tactics of an authoritarian power grab.
And opening movie theaters and allowing women to drive is reform? Really? In the 21st century? R U kidding me?
We found out later that the sheik shakedown included torture. MBS was perpetrating a power grab, consolidating his dictatorial, monarchical rule. Reform was a euphemism for the type of authoritarian rule founded in nepotism that appeals to our President and son-in-law in Chief.
If Kashoggi has been kidnapped, or worse, I hope Friedman abandons the reform mantra and calls it what I It is: brutal power grab.
6
If Turkey discovers that the Saudis really did have him killed, then there must be zero tolerance from the international stage. There must be severe sanctions against Saudi Arabia for this.
2
The 'imperial messenger' has spoken out after a long hiatus. Even though he had no idea what this MBS stuff was, but wrote an eulogy about him. Money can buy even one of the most influential and richest columnists in the US.
3
In the light of today's events, I perceive the following series of events. There is no way to tell if this is what happened from my outside position.
1) Mr. Khashoggi is "disappeared."
2) Amb. Haley tells POTUS that the US needs to respond.
3) POTUS shrugs. He was allowed to touch the magic ball, after all.
4) Amb. Haley resigns.
5
Praying for Khashoggi? A bizarre suggestion when he is the victim of the most religious system devised by mankind. What about some drastic diplomatic measures? What about freezing assets?
6
"What Western leader....will want to stand alongside M.B.S. if it is proved that his government abducted or murdered Jamal?" Hmmm......I can think of one.
6
Reading "Fear" (Woodward's) makes me wonder if Trump (not his minions) has any idea whatsoever of what Friedman has to say. Seems he rejects every thinking man's ideas about anything- he just want to react, and feels that his "instincts" are always correct. Name a subject: foreign policy, climate, racial relations, trade, military tactics and strategy, history. He has such limited knowledge and unwillingness to listen or learn that the highest people in his circle pull things off his desk so he won't make the deadly mistake of signing them. And then-he forgets about them! Yikes! Tom is right, but the man-in-charge will never understand or make the right decision on Middle East policy or anything else. Suicide is painless.
3
Mike Pompeo, John Bolton and Nikki Haley— not really the best advocates for the humanitarian values of the west—but then again, you have to look at the guy who hired them.
65
Why all the fuss about this guy? The Saudis violate human rights all the time and are killing tens of thousands of civilians in a war of aggression against Yemen.
1
@Andy Jones
It's not an either/or question. We can have "fuss" about both, tabernac!
2
I wonder if the Saudis signaled the US authorities that they were about to carry out a operation against Mr. Khashoggi. Given Mr Khashoggi's status as a US permanent resident and a prominent columnist for a national newspaper, it seems too brazen for the Saudis to assassinate him (assuming this is indeed what happened) without first at least bouncing the idea off their American "friends."
Did the Saudis signal the US embassy in Riyadh? The State Department? CIA? Military officials? Did anyone in the US government know anything about a possible hit against Mr Khashoggi in advance?
(I would rather not use my real name attached to this comment.)
4
@ bs353 .edu
This reminds me that , 1973 killings of Charles Horman and Frank Teruggi in the hands of American government friend Pinochet.
2
"What Western leader . . . will want to stand alongside M.B.S. if it is proved that his government abducted or murdered Jamal?" Do you really have to ask?
5
It is called the Persian Gulf, not the Arab Gulf.
4
As Saudi Arabia struggles to move into the 21st century, the United States is headed in exactly the opposite direction. With Kavanaugh's appointment to the new "religious" Supreme Court, we are in for thirty years of backward evolution toward a second Dark Ages. However, there is hope. In the near future, we will program the human mind in the computer based on a "survival" algorithm, which will provide irrefutable proof of how we trick the mind with our ridiculous beliefs about just what is supposed to survive - producing minds programmed de facto for destruction. At that point, we can begin the long trek back to reason and sanity.
See RevolutionOfReason.com
1
Khashoggi was foolish to challenge the powerful Saudi Crown Prince. Mohammed Bin Salman is moving rapidly to improve his nation, but he will clearly not tolerate efforts to undermine a gradual change that might turn the Kingdom into yet another Middle East disaster.
1
As your current president would put it: as longs they pay us for protection and keep the price of oil low, who cares?
41
The Saudi's are the largest purchaser of defense manufactured products from the United States-approximately 2 Billion Dollars worth annually.
The United States imports oil to the total of 1.1 million bpd from Saudi Arabia-only Canada exports more to the US.
Do you think there is a connection between the two commodities?
The US has arrangements with the Saudi's....both Democratic Administrations and Republican Administrations have worked hand in hand with the Saudi Government.
A country that squashes human rights, subjugates their citizens-especially women- and imprisons or eliminates political opposition.
And participates and takes pride in barbaric acts of punishment to those convicted of crimes and those who oppose their Government.
The Saudi's bomb a country like Yemen with impunity, killing civilians by the thousands and with the support and acquiescence of the United States Government.
Opposition reporters vanish.
Who is the bona fide adversary here?
When you eat at the dinner table with The Prince of Darkness- who have you become? .....and then are you not just a reflection of your dinner co-conspirator?
54
MBS could have murdered him in the middle of 5th Avenue and there would be no consequences. Saudis were behind 9/11. No consequences. Saudis radicalize Muslim youth in Europe and Central Asia. No consequences. When will a US administration grow a spine, stand up to Exxon and tell the Saudis to keep their flipping oil? Where are US patriots when it comes to dealing consequences to the people responsible for both sets of WTC murders?
9
Well said : no consequences !
1
"....how many Western investors, will want to stand alongside M.B.S. if it is proved that his government abducted or murdered Jamal?" The answer to that question, sadly, depends entirely on the potential profits. I recall sitting in a bank boardroom some years ago where a potential deal was being discussed. The potential client, one of the participants noted with trepidation, was a felon who'd spent time in prison for fraud and graft. "Sure, sure " said one of the other men at the table, somewhat dismissively, "but look at the fees!"
1
From all evidence emanating from Turkey, it appears that Jamal Khashoggi was killed in the Saudi Embassy where he had gone to apply for permission to marry a Turkish woman. This could not have happened without MBS direct involvement.
MBS should realize that every time he silences a person, another Jamal will take his place. History has shown that no dictator or autocrat has succeeded in muzzling free speech. We are seeing that even in China, which has a reputation for silencing dissent, there are many intellectuals who are now openly coming forward to criticize the repressive policies of the Communist Policy. One wonders, for how long MBS will continue to silence or eliminate all sane voices who are critical of his leadership.
We can hope and pray for Jamal, but in our heart of heart, we all know what the Saudi thugs have done to him.
57
I guess you can't expect a forthright mea culpa from Mr Friedman. He, as well as many who gushed over the Prince, were wrong pure and simple.
A pure and simple apology would be nice. Influencers like Mr Friedman have painted a picture of the Prince as a paragon of enlightenment. That coupled with Trump's infatuation with despotism is a dangerous thing.
9
Mr Friedman, you're superficial assessment s of the good and bad fails to see rotten core. Whether it is the Shah of Iran, the ruler of Dubai, the King of Saudi, or the Party in China, economic progress and religious reform is not enduring without an institutional foundation. This is where you and the US government always get it wrong.
The Brits had a brutal colonial regime in India, but the enduring institutions have provided a foundation for incremental progress.
MBS was always a sham. Just as the ruler of Dubai is a sham. Shiny buildings and infrastructure don't make a civilization. Always back those seeking to share power with the people.
5
Well, I'm pretty sure Donald would stand right by him, without a thought.
1
My impression is that MBS's religious reforms have been misinterpreted.
MBS's modus operandi is to put up enemies and then beat them down. He has done so with Yemen, Syria and Qatar. But he has also done so inside the country. He took on the country's rich with the Ritz shakedown. But to establish his position he also wanted to take on the religious leaders - and that is where the religious reforms came in.
MBS's talk and action about the need for economic or social reform is all just ammunition in his battle against certain groups. When you look closer there never is any followup. That is most obvious with his economic reforms that ended with the establishment of the ridiculous enclave for the rich Neom.
Thomas should worry less about Saudi Arabia and more about his own country. Trump constantly reminds his supporters that mainstream reporters are the enemy. That they hate America. There is the continuing risk that one of Trump’s unhinged supporters will attack the enemy. Trump will deny responsibility. He will argue that the reporter should have been more loyal to him.And to America. In his mind the same thing.
3
Much as I sympathize with Mr Friedman on the loss of a dear friend and colleague, in terms of human decency, you cannot compare one death/murder to the unrelenting tragic famine, murderous war crimes and tens of thousands of deaths in Yemen.
3
Nobody should be confused about Saudi Arabia playing nice via Wahhabism. After all, their ideology has murdered countless around the world for decades - including my brother on 9/11. If MBS did this, it needs to be confronted completely. But the comments on this column are self righteous and I fear give ammunition to the conservative Saudi clerics who have caused such destruction. A very tough topic indeed.
38
"What Western leader, and how many Western investors, will want to stand alongside M.B.S. if it is proved that his government abducted or murdered Jamal?"
Simple: Donald Trump and his fellow Republican oligarchs, who are pleased to have a trouble-making journalist eliminated.
2
One has to wonder if the fawning by representatives of the USA over MBS and the rest of the Saudi Arabian leadership have given them the idea that they can kill journalists with impunity. After all, Khashoggi worked for the Washington Post, Trump's nemesis. Perhaps they expect that Trump will cheer them on, or at least not complain much.
3
People don't change, and regimes don't change until they're overthrown or forced to. A Saudi classmate was saying years ago that over there girls were afraid to be in universities, since if a prince visited and took interest in a young woman, she could be disappeared and no one would find out what happened or would dare to ask. This is the same regime in essence. Remember they kidnapped the Prime Minister of Lebanon and forced him to read a resignation letter! Do you expect them to be care about a journalist who's dared to be critical? Now imagine what happens inside the country to dissidents and minorities.
This also reminds me of the murder of Zahra Kezemi, a Canadian Iranian journalist in an infamous Tehran prison in 2004. Similar brutal hard liners in that regime, but at least Mr. Friedman does not name Iran's supreme leader by his initials SAK!
3
How could this be a disaster for MBS ??? Who, EXACTLY, will hold him to account ??? Trump ? Putin ? Israel ?
Sir, Elvis has left the building. And he’s taken decency, righteousness and justice with Him. Yes, I hope that answers are found, for His Family. For hoping for anything more is childish and very, very naive. Seriously.
5
I am no longer surprised by naïveté of Mr. Friedman on issues related to middle east. This article has Mr. Friedman himself at its center and is full of hyperboles on one side and trivialization in the other:
“The future stability of Saudi Arabia and the whole Arab Gulf depends on the reform process in Saudi succeeding, [...]”
No it doesn’t! Who are we talking about? Qatar? Kuwait? Oman? Even UAE or Bahrain? All these states have made sure their future is not tied to KSA’s.
”Saudi-UAE war in Yemen has been so badly botched that the Saudis have been accused of possible war crimes”
“Possible” war crimes? Really? It is so sad that Mr. Friedman can not even make up his mind about this issue.
Mr. Friedman, “People close to the Saudi crown prince” are using you to do informercials for them.
7
"What Western leader, and how many Western investors, will want to stand alongside M.B.S. if it is proved that his government abducted or murdered Jamal?"
May I suggest a Western leader, with the initials DJT, and his errand boy Jared may still be willing to stand alongside MBS?
1
My friend Amr Al Dabbagh was among those arrested soon after the new Prince came to power. They wanted all his money. He's been tortured and is still imprisoned.
1
As always, this situation shows the only thing between most societies and dictatorship and loss of freedom isn't the armed forces, but a free press. The terrible killings of journalists in the ME, Eastern Europe, Mexico and other places are the truest signs of how democracy may be losing its grip.
2
Ask yourself what role in world affairs Saudi Arabia would have with no petroleum reserves. What purpose could a God have in granting these people any sway over modern civilizations? No surprise Trump and Jared get along with them so well.
9
@Phaedrus Is that why Bill and Barack got along with them too?
2
@Paul W. Don't you know that sucking up to dictators and despots as well as climate change only started in 2016? Geez. Pay attention!
1
Saudi Arabia was the first foreign country that Trump rushed to visit. Remember his dance with the swords? Ironic that the journalist that was slain in the Consulate by a hit squad was cut up, dismembered and brought out of the Consulate building in boxes. Maybe swords were used to dismember his corpse. There is no question that Trump's constant denigration of the press emboldened the Saudi ruler to strike.
9
The truth here is simple and has been since American petroleum geologists and engineers began combing the tribal desert wastelands of King Saud that formed what is now Saudi Arabia.
Oil. Money.
No matter how atrocious and audacious the Saudi monarchy behaves, American government officials bend a knee.
Now the Saudi oil company Aramco is poised to become the richest public company in history and Mr. Khasoggi can have been assassinated right in the Saudi Turkish embassy and dissolved in acid and nobody from our government is going to do a thing about it.
Nobody.
9
Trump is orange with envy at M.B.S.'s freedom and unaccountability to rid himself of journalists and others he dislikes. Trump is envious of so many, it explains his permanent envious orange hue within his big ruling circle of one.
Journalist critics of MBS in the USA should be concerned now. If Turkey's Erdogan can have his manservants beat up protesters on American soil with impunity and silent blessing from our own POTUS, MBS is free to do the same to journalists on American soil too. It's hard to know who is doing the nurturing between so many tyrants and trump. Like in Saudi Arabia and Iran, under trump the most puritanical form of evangelism is being spread in America and the world. What will that lead to?
Investing in Saudi Arabia is as crazy as investing in Trump, Inc.
6
The only hope Mr. MBS has is to declare that after a thorough investigation it appears a rogue element in the security apparatus of the state had taken it upon themselves to rid Mr. MBS of this troublesome sage Khashoggi without the approval or knowledge of Mr. MBS.
Heads will roll, the sword of justice will shimmer with the blood of the accused for many days, a period of national mourning will be observed, flags lowered and so on and so forth and Mr. MBS will be exonerated and we'll be back to business as usual.
It's all about money and arms sales Mr. Friedman, don't you think? We both know the disappearance (and probable muder) of Mr. Khashoggi isn't going to be allowed to stop the flow of billions of dollars into the coffers of the military-industrial complex. Both sides will find a way to dress it up and even if it doesn't pass the smell test, who cares, the news cycle moves on.
7
@Sohrab Batmanglidj Arms sales are just one manifestation of money. So I would say it's all about power, for which money is a tool. Until war and other forms of aggression are curtailed, and those who would practice them are contained, the humans of the planet will continue to kill and degrade one another. We remain relatively unevolved.
1
@bill
For MBS of course, it is about power and the paranoia associated with keeping that power but for the military-industrial complex who are very near and dear to the hearts of congressmen and senators in Washington, it's all about money and profits. The Saudi-Emirati forces are using ridiculous amounts of ordnance on the Yemenis, all the latest and best the US and Europeans have to offer, targeting schools, school buses, hospitals, markets, weddings, causing famine, starvation, disease and the arms suppliers? They just shrug and happily accept billions more in buy orders for ever more lethal weapons to be used against those same targets exacerbating everything, is there no morality in the boards of directors of these companies, in the congress, the senate, the White House? Where is Mr. Kushner who was supposed to set all of this right? Oh yeah he is buddies with MBS and really, really close with Bibi and those two don't want anything set straight, so we'll excuse Mr. Kushner, he can disappear back in the woodwork, but what about the rest, where are they?
1
What Western leader would stand by MBS if what is alleged is true? C'mon, surely you jest. There is one western leader who is taking notes on how to do what MBS does and get away with it. The leader of the "free world" of course. We have become an enabler of this type of behavior as long as the Saudis send their money and oil our way. Truth be told: Trump and Kushner love this kind of stuff. And they have millions of supporters who love it too. So if war breaks out over there, I say they sign up to go over and fight for the man they love. We will stay here and ignore them.
2
Why a disaster (as the sub-headline says) for the Saudi regime? Decent people wish it would be a disaster ... but this is just one in a long line of Mr. Friedman's wishful thinking op-eds. Although I admire his boundless optimism.
Thankfully if belatedly, a number of journalists are walking back their glowing reviews of the Saudi regime. The House of Saud is a house of cards now. It was founded on the basis of an evil pact between the king and his clergy. If the rulers are not going to keep their end of the bargain, why should the Mullahs keep theirs? The country is going the way of Iran under the Shah.
President Trump owns this disaster in the making to a significant extent. It is his full-throated support to the regime in Riyadh that has enabled and empowered the kingdom to go rogue.
4
"So I was shocked — but not surprised — to pick up the paper and read that Saudi Arabia stood accused of abducting or murdering Jamal Khashoggi while he was on a visit to the Saudi consulate in Istanbul to get some marriage papers in order."
We should never underestimate what the worst of us are willing to do to protect themselves. Americans should take particular note given our current political situation.
5
Praying could only make the living powerless to do anything else better but would never bring back the murdered.
The troika of Putin, Xi and Trump have finally opened the hell hole once only restricted to Kim and an occasional Mossad's clandestine operation.
5
In an undemocratic political system, underpinned by constraining , extreme interpretations of sacred, and selected people and values are institutionally violated, daily, with impunity- personal-accountability by... and of... , at best being just a semantic creation-prayers, voiced, are neither heard nor responded to.By none of the Deities. At the present time. And for ever-so-long ago.
3
As for praying for Jamal Khashoggi, Mr. Friedman, probably the most apt prayer would be the Mourner's Kaddish (which of course sanctifies God's name and is not a prayer for the dead).
As for the "China Model"
“Saudi Arabia is not China. It needs friends. It needs to be more Dubai than Shanghai — more soft power, less bullying.’’
You are correct, Mr. Friedman, from a western perspective. But Saudi Arabia is not a western country. It is a tribal-based country in the Middle East in which might and power make right. Weakness directly impacts on one's masculine standing (yes, this is not pc; I am aware of that, but this is the Middle East; perceptions are different. Masculinity and manhood are important factors).
It seems to be that the China model is doing just fine for Saudi Arabia. From their perspective why back down.
Forget Mr. Trump. Has the EU signed on against the Saudis or are they still running to make money there?
The House of Saud will never become liberal. As long as they have money and power, change, if it all, will be ephemeral and not at the roots or base of society. As long as there is money to be made in Saudi Arabia things will not change.
23
Jamal Khashoggi looked like an everyman. His face is open and smile seemed humble and sincere. Mr. Friedman's column displayed in ways other coverage had not, how human and humane Mr. Khashoggi was.
I pray not only for his safety, although all accounts seem dire, but for the soul of Saudi Arabia. How could MbS mistake a loving critic for an enemy? It seems to confirm the old adage by Lord Acton, Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Where is the morality and sensibility in a man so powerful?
11
The planned rollout of MBS's dictatorship followed directly (a few months later) on the early visit of Trump and kushner. Prayer is not good enough.
Our wannabe dictator loves dictators - look at his choices: Putin, Kim Jong Un, Al Sisi, Duterte, Erdogan (some difficulties there though) and a few others.
What makes you think reason and "prayers" will affect the new world order. The US has abdicated any moral leadership it ever pretended to have.
By the way, I'm reading Kingsolver's Poisonwood Bible. I hadn't known that Eisenhower (that "reasonable" Republican who condemned the "military industrial establishment") was complicit in the murder of Patrice Lumumba in favor of badman opportunist Mobutu (of ill repute) and the collapse of the Congo. 51 days after his popular election. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobutu_Sese_Seko *
Add that the collusion with the UK and BP (remember the gulf spill) in unseating Mossadegh.
*extract: "Mobutu formed a totalitarian regime, amassed vast personal wealth, and attempted to purge the country of all colonial cultural influence, while enjoying considerable support from the West and China, owing to his strong anti-Soviet stance. He became the object of a pervasive cult of personality. During his reign, Mobutu .... notorious for corruption, nepotism, and the embezzlement .... a period of widespread human rights violations.
No wonder the world thinks the US is worthy of disrespect.
Hard to blame them, isn't it?
19
I always take anything Friedman says with a heaping bucket of salt. His perspective is warped as he is part of the billionaire class (by marriage to an heiress). Thus the previous articles lauding Mohammed bin Salman, while ignoring the deaths of thousands of Yemenis. Or cheering for globalization while ignoring the sufferings of millions of workers being paid slave wages in Third World factories.
47
I had never known much about your friend, Jamal; but I am praying for him, too. Hopefully, there’s some huge mistake. Maybe they took him back to Ryad to some dank cell or something...I hope to God he’s alive. Hoping to God.
5
We should remember how the king of Saudi has been created.
It was created by killing the Arabian people of Najd and Hijaz . MBS is doing the same what his grand father did to control the land of Arabian Peninsula. I hope this the end of Saudi regime.
12
Finally, finally you're critical of Saudi Arabia. Could the WHOLE NYT bring more focus to the US-backed, Saudi led bombing of Yemen?
56
No mater how disgusting an act KSA commits Trump will kiss up to them because of ‘the oil’...
8
I remember some articles not too long ago about how great Mohammed bin Salman was...the author had a name something like “Thomas Friedman.”
76
You can bet the Saudi's have as part of their elite assassins people drawn from the Wahhabis who permit the royals to rule and sell oil
7
And protect the US - Kushner - Trump unprecedented fighter plane arms deal.
2
What sophistry on the part of Thomas Friedman and David Ignatius at the Washington Post. You knew very well that MBS was personally supervising torture sessions in the Ritz with thugs sent by Erik Prince and the loathsome little toad ruling the UAE, MBZ. Yet you kept writing puff pieces about both MBS and the UAE because they were allied to Netanyahu. The US allowed all three to betray the Arab Spring with the anti democratic coup and slaughter of thousands in Egypt as well as in Bahrain and Yemen and the attempted anti-democratic coup in Turkey and the overthrow of Qatar. Now you and the Neo-Con-Likud / Armageddon Evangelical lobbies which control US policy toward the vast Muslim world have to reap the same whirlwind which produced 9/11- which had nothing to do with "American Freedom".
79
Kudos for trying to blame Israel. In fact the USA has had strategic relations with Saudis for decades with respect to oil, weapons sales, army bases, etc including when Saudi’s were sworn enemies of Israel.
2
So wait, Saudis welcome back prisoners (terrorists) from Gitmo and execute journalist for using his pen? Has to be one of the worst Human Crimes ever commited by a Nation.
25
They killed him.
12
...worse not in numbers but in principle than even the Yemen war....
-- Thomas Friedman
[ This is the saddening, even frightening, remark of a writer who needs to think through what morality is all about. Learn to think finally, please, Mr. Friedman. ]
33
Washington is also under the control of a Dark Monarch these days. If the Democrats can't regain the House in November, prospects for the U.S. will be darker than any time since the 1930s Depression. And we don't seem to have a Franklin Roosevelt waiting in the wings to clean things up.
36
I realize this op-ed piece focuses on Khashoggi; however, I fail to understand why US citizens put up with our government supporting governments that fail to uphold human rights. We have gone to war with other countries’ alleged violations of human rights. I do not recall the US ever going to war over another country’s violation of women’s rights. The Saudis are anti-women. The so called reforms MBS has implemented are window dressing to get the West off his back. MBS knows the clerics won’t tolerate real reform.
There is nothing democratic about Saudia Arabia, and almost all of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis who embraced Wahhabism.
The Yemen situation is even worse. The Saudis either incompetently use US weapons systems or deliberately use disproportionate responses to wage war. The result is akin to cutting of the heads and pulling the teeth of a Hydra, only to have more terrorists born exponentially. These new born hydras will come back to haunt this country - thanks Saudia Arabia.
54
@Ben“The Saudis either incompetently use US weapons systems or deliberately use disproportionate responses to wage war.”
There is no incompetence involved. Saudi Arabia is engaged in genocide in Yemen with the full knowledge, military advice, and support of the USA (and the UK).
1
While this is certainly a tragedy for this man and his family, I do not think it will be a disaster for the Saudis. I don't think it will even register as a blip. This is what they do all the time.
Why do we still support this regime???
49
Because we are as evil as they are.
32
Too bad for the Saudis that there is no domestic American Saudi Lobby.
Too bad for the Saudis that America is fossil fuel independent.
Too bad for the Saudis that 15 of the 19 9/11/01 hijackers were Saudis and that Osama Bin Laden was Saudi.
Too bad for the Saudis that Egypt is the most populous Arab nation.
Too bad for the Saudis that the Kurds, Persians and Turks are not Arabs.
Too bad for the Saudis that not all Arabs are Sunni Muslim.
10
@Blackmamba
Yeah, and too bad for the rest of us too. Killing journalists is becoming something of a sport. Nineteen confirmed as murdered this year alone. Mostly at the behest of repressive governments and regimes. Mostly they’ve got funny sounding Arabic names, and mostly it’s forgotten in a weekend. There ought to be a law against jailing or killing journalists. It's time to protect them better. So. I hope Mr. Khashoggi gets to marry his Turkish bride. And I hope that later the outraged Mr. Erdogan is made to answer for the slow murder of the free-press in Turkey. Because his government presently holds more than 170 journalists and other media workers in prison. That’s what I hope but I ain’t holding my breath.
1
Mr. Friedman, also can you please stop promoting and misrepresenting the "Saudi Peace Plan"? The always gloss over the part that includes a Palestinian Right Of Return, which everyone knows is a non-starter.
7
I'm not really up on the subject, which is why I read this Opinion. I didn't get far before saying to myself "What is this?!" It's someone talking out of the side of his mouth.
17
The expression in English, tovarisch, is “talking out of both sides of ones mouth”.
15
Hmmmm...Saudi Arabia decried Chrystia Freeland in the not too distant past for her comments about their detaining of activists. They threatened diplomatic sanctions and ordered university students at Canadian universities “home.”
Recently, Freeland was also insulted by Trump; then again; it’s all in a day’s “work” for him; insulting women, that is.
Appears Freeland is correct in her condemnations. Of Saudi Arabia.
Of Trump, too.
Strange bedfellows in these tragic global times.
My condolences to Mr. Khashoggi’s fiancée.
37
"worse not in numbers but in principle than even the Yemen war"
That is a shocking thing to write. It is self indulgent to an extreme. As vast numbers die in an ugly war of starvation and bombing innocents, the death of one friend of Friedman is not worse.
If those Western leaders will line up with him and help him kill all those children, selling him the bombs and refueling the bombers in the air for him, then yes, they'll also look the other way when one journalist is killed.
Even worse, Friedman was writing fawning articles about this guy (exaggerated flattery or affection; obsequious), that he now very selectively tries to re-write as if they were real critiques.
He though MBS was going to serve purposes promoted by Friedman, and was willing to look the other way. Then his friend disappeared, and that is "worse" than mass murder.
94
MBS can't be any worse than George W. Bush, whose evil regime supported endless wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, torture, war crimes, Gitmo, Abu Ghraib...not to mention economic disaster at home. Shall I go on?
7
It really did not surprise me that the Saudi regime would undertake such a hideous task - abduct or murder a visitor to their diplomatic mission to pick up some personal papers for his coming marriage. That's the essential nature of the beast. Names and faces of leaders may change, but the character set for generations isn't going to change the character or MO of a long established regime.
What really surprises me, though, is the haltering prose, on the one-hand-and-the other, of the foreign media sitting in the safety of their own countries. Saudi swords may be shart but they are not long enough to reach Washington, New York, London or even Ottawa, for that matter.
Why is it the fault of hardliners around him for what is happening? Could it happen without his personal approval? Would his advisors recommend such a course if they knew he would not like it? So why then not place blame where it belongs.
As to us not having an ambassador in Saudi Arabia, why would Trump risk an extra set of eyes and ears in Riyadh when he has his son-in-law taking care of the private dealings going on confidentially between Kushner and MBS. After all, what's more important to Trumps and Kushners than secret, confidential deals with the cash-rich Saudis? Beats peddling green cards in the streets and bazaars of Hong Kong, Beijing, and Shangai.
53
Every country has its internal affairs, their own form of government, and interactions with other countries around the world. Most of it is not any of our government's business except as it effects our foreign policy. It seems the Saudis are being a friend of our government. So be it.
@vulcanalex Yeah, what great friends. 15 Saudis flew planes into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Not like it was our government's business, right?
Who needs enemies with friends like that?
1
@vulcanalex
International human rights law rests on the post-Holocaust recognition that the murder of innocents cannot be shielded by invoking a country’s “internal affairs”. It’s horrifying that you can shrug and write “so be it.”
Unlike you, Mr. Friedman, I do not see the American government walking away from the Saudis over the death of a journalist. I am not happy to say that, but my government, the one currently controlled by Mr. Trump and his cronies, cares little about morality or justice or a rational foreign policy based on either, but seem to honor power and money over both. I, too, hope that your journalist friend is safe and unharmed, but don't expect this government to care one way or the other. To them he is just another dishonest journalist, and matters nothing in their game of thrones..
38
@Patrick Stevens -- Dubya, Daddy Bush, Bill Clinton, none of them would have walked away from Saudis over this. Obama? That one is sad.
10
Why will merely torturing and murdering Khashoggi be a "disaster" for the Saudis? Since Trump is nothing but a ventriloquist's dummy for Putin and Netanyahu, both of whom, especially Netanyahu, will order Trump to ignore the whole affair, what do the Saudis have to fear from anyone? With luck, maybe Iran will quietly mete out the punishment these Saudi new best friends of Israel and Trump deserve. Russia-Israel-Saudi Arabia-Trump, the world's real Axis of Evil.
16
"Worse not in numbers but in principle than even the Yemen war." As much as I have liked Friedman's Middle East reporting when he was a correspondent there ( years ago it seems), he ventures into unbecoming absurd naivety with comments like this, equivocating the wholesale butchery of defenseless civilians to yet another disappeared person in a regime notorious for its human rights abuses, who crucifies and beheads its "criminals" in public on Fridays. Ever has it been thus from the Kingdom, which has always been and always will be a vicious double dealer with the West, feeding and maintaining our oil addiction while simultaneously spreading their virulent Wahabbi barbarism around the globe. They turned the orphans of the 80's Afghan war into the Taliban, like a twisted clone army, and they have have funded globally the very terror we are supposedly in a life and death struggle with. Their contribution of 19 attackers on 9/11 is all you need to know but not by far all there is. They are not our friends, and never have been. Unless of course you're an oilman.
46
What your seeing in Turkey is that brutal regimes are no longer held in any form of check. With the U.S. not condemning or concerning itself both publicly and privately with what some of these countries do,and with them knowing that we will either allow it, or just hide behind a wall they feel free rein to act. When the supposed leader of the free world is a rudderless ship with a moron as captain, these events whether in Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Israel or China will continue to occur with impunity.
15
In other (shorter) words, Thomas Friedman gets the Middle East wrong once again. At least this time we didn't have to read about some insight he gleaned from a taxi driver in Ankara, or they guy polishing his shoes in Riyadh.
41
It is mind boggling to witness the close relationship between Trump and Saudi Arabia when they were responsible for the death of 3000 Americans. How can we take it lying down- are we fools?
28
@Jack Aren't you confusing Trump with Presidents Obama and George W. Bush? They both had much closer relationships with Saudi Arabia than Trump has.
1
Pray for him to have a good afterlife. He is dead as a doornail and once proven every nation should recall their ambassador and break off diplomatic relations permanently with these horrendous abusers of human rights, Saudi Arabia.
42
Yeah imagine thinking he was a great reformer when it was transparently obvious what he was
23
We have short term memory problems in this country. Remember the 9/11 criminals? Trump sure doesn’t. Saudis bought him off with some bling and a dinner. You too, Tom.
27
MBS is a valuable ally of America and Israel in a key Arab country. Khashoggi is no more than a bug on MBS's windshield and yes he is with Jimmy Hoffa now. the NYT should have known better than to associate themselves with him. Qatar, Yemeni children, and other MBS activities have already been forgotten. So will Khashoggi. Just give it a week!
11
Mr Friedman is clearly taking us for fools or perhaps he thinks of himself as the only source of information on his friend MBS. While he was
writing glowing reviews of MBS, clerics were hanged, activists and women arrested, the prime minister of Lebanon forced to resign and put on house arrest (freed later by the French president) not to mention the miserable war in Yemen that killed and maimed scores of children.
We pray for the safety of mr Khashoggi but we also pray for Saudi Arabia to rid itself of all Mr Friedman friends.
43
Well, we can say good things about Truman, too, but he also nuked Japan. Twice.
All of this speculation but I know one thing that Obama taught me. Whatever happened has nothing to do with Islam.
9
This is pathetic. Over the last two years working in KSA, I was dismayed by your naïveté vis-a-vis MBS. But your inability to admit that you bought the propaganda hook, line, and sinker is nauseating.
42
I hope praying helps. As a native of Saudi Arabia, I have seen and lived through the oppression citizens live under every day in the Kingdom. So, I have been dismayed by how many people, including my fellow Minnesotan Tom Friedman, seem to fall in love with MBS the great reformer as the great brown hope of Saudi Arabia. I posted several comments that MBS is nothing more than what King Faisal did, appeared as a reformer to the west, while brutally oppressing the people of Saudi Arabia. This is something that could be documented on the ground everyday. While I understand we are desperate for a reformer, can we start celebrating after tangible reforms as it relates to the human and political rights of the average citizen of Saudi Arabia,, something beyond women driving but women have the rights to travel alone, go to work with a permission of their minders, etc. Something else I find amusing, several folks urge the US government to help an enlightened citizen of Saudi Arabia and a competent journalist. This is when the president of the USA proclaims the press as the enemy of the people, why should we expect less from a theocratic dictatorship with a history of oppressing its own people and killing the innocents at home and abroad (Yemen war, 9/11/, etc.). Under Trump, we are in more odd place in our history than we might think and acknowledge. I hope praying works!
38
What God are you praying to, the one that smiles on Trump and his evangelical pals, the God of Putin? MBS is using weapons the US gave him to kill thousands in Yemen he won't care about 1 journalist.
21
@Lev I doubt Putin believes in the supreme entity.
Pretty weird Tom: the pros then the cons from you regarding MBS. Jamal is no longer with us, and that seems pretty obvious at this point.
Now get back to how the Israelis crushed Arab nationalism in 1967 and beyond, do your history again, and look at the patent numbers on the Saudi Arabian bombs dropping in Yemen. Then go back to your regular posts both about how the world is all connected and how we all need continuing education....except the Saudi princes.
21
Shame on you Mr Friedman...Supposedly you are the Middle Eastern expert ...What happened?
You were duped by MBS inspite of his crimes in Yemen, arrest of his critics..etc...Please wake up and tell the truth.
25
How can you be so wrong so many times"
Remember your support of the Iraq War?
And now you offer an apologia for your support of MBS.
This article is really not about Khashoggi, is it? It's about Friedman applying lipstick to his emaciated face.
44
Khashoggi is most probably dead, his tortured body likely to have already been dissolved in acid. Bin Salman's brand of Islam dictates that dissenters should be beheaded. So much for the religion of peace. Go peddle it somewhere else bin Salman.
13
Why do you ruin a thoughtful and trenchant analysis with a call to prayer for Jamal Khashoggi? If he has been murdered, what good will that do? If he hasn't, will prayer have any sort of effect on MBS and his treatment of Mr. Khashoggi? I'm sure MBS will just reply that God has already blessed his actions.
5
You have fawned over Mohammed bin Salman for a long time now. True, it's been measured fawning, but it's been fawning.
Mohammed bin Salman is blatantly guilty of crimes against humanity, war crimes, mass murder, torture, kidnapping, extortion and now you are upset about one individual murder.
He likes the China model. Trump and Kushner are his buddies. While their crimes are not as great as his, they can't imagine criticizing him, much less doing anything to rein him in. He is imposing a regime on Saudi Arabia that is worse than the Wahhabi theocracy, one more akin to China's 'Big Brother' rule over the Uighurs in their conquered territory of Xinjiang. He will not improve his behavior and nothing will be done about it until there is a full scale explosion on the Arabian peninsula.
Dan Kravitz
26
Mr. Friedman’s assertion that the possible murder of his personal friend is somehow worse “on principle” than what is going on in Yemen is ridiculous.
This seems to betray a definite lack of objectivity on his part vis a vis Saudi Arabia. I don’t think the NYT should be publishing Op-Eds like this.
I felt the need to write this to express my agreement with other comments that have already said as much.
29
I don't agree that it will be a disaster for MBS. Trump has given the Prince excellent cover for attacking journalists. A situation like this was predicted by journalists themselves. There is a tragic joke in Erdogan's government feining crocodile tears for a Saudi journalist, only because of an ongoing diplomatic dispute with the Saudi's. Situational ethics, wouldn't you say?
18
@dmayes1 So the president is killing his opponents? And why does a foreign leader need any cover?
If Mr. Friedman is hoping for condemnation from the current U.S. government he is wishing on a star. This administration has railed against a free press even before taking power. Behind closed doors they are likely expressing understanding, if not sympathy, for the villains who would carry out such an atrocity.
12
To play Devil's Advocate, we don't seem to care very much how many people are killed by the Egyptian government or the Israelis (if the victims are Palestinians). Ditto the Philippines. So why get excited about Saudi Arabia?
Answer: of course, we SHOULD care about all of these situations and all the victims of government violence, even when it is "legitimized" by those governments' own self-serving laws. We support them. We are labeled by their actions.
Saudi Arabia has recently been involved in serious deviations from the Kingdom's own historical norms. King Salman always was one of the most willfully autocratic of the senior princes. His son and heir MbS seems to have lost the long golden thread of caution and consultation that characterized his country before he came into authority.
6
@Redant NO we should mind our own business in relation to the internal affairs of other countries. Surely many foreigners would want to meddle in ours, and we greatly object. The reverse should of course be true by our government, now if some private organizations want to discuss or influence that is their right. Not that they will really care.
1
I wish Canada, Denmark and Finland would meddle in our gov't and change it. They can overthrow it. And I wish they would take over. I would support their meddling in our elections. I would vote for Canadian or Danish rule.
"What Western leader, and how many Western investors, will want to stand alongside M.B.S. if it is proved that his government abducted or murdered Jamal? (And the truth will come out.)"
Trump will and American will as we always have, standing by Saudi Arabia no matter what they do with regard to human rights or promoting religious extremism.
14
@Sipa111 Trump's best foreign friends are murderers, Kim and Putin.
8
If J. Khashoggi is proven to have been killed in the Saudi consulate, which may not be an easy task considering that the body might never be found, this could have humungous global repercussions against the M.B.S. rule. Assuming he was murdered, the present mild outcries will grow larger and expand with global protests, outcries and condemnations together with sanctions, effectively destabilizing the M.B.S. regime.
4
@Consiglieri Even if true and proven, why would it do anything to his government. It is not a democracy, so get used to how it is.
5
Too bad there isn't this much outrage against the war in Yemen. As there should have been against the US war in Iraq.
The China model will not work for Saudi Arabia because of their religious fanatics; China has the good fortune that very few believe in their official religion (Communism) so there is no large movement recommending the return to ideological purity. If M.B.S. runs into trouble, the fanatics will recommend a return to Wahhabism and are willing to do anything to get there.
We need to be prepared to confront instability or Wahhabism in Saudi Arabia; in either case, Islam can no longer seek its center in that area. With respect to an Islam of tolerance, respect, and neighborly love (Islam at its best), Mecca and the other holy sites have been occupied for generations by usurpers who claim to be Muslims but are actually apostates. It is time for Muslims worldwide to reject and denounce this apostasy and move the hajj temporarily towards a location that is trying to embody the best in Muslim values. Dearborn, Michigan would be better.
12
@sdavidc9 so true
1
You should invest more time to learn the true names of Geographic locations in the Middle East! That is not "Arab Gulf" but the "Persian Gulf".
9
Columns like this are why I largely stopped reading Friedman sometime ago. He must have graduated from Trump University where he was instructed to never say I'm sorry. I was wrong.
38
I am kind of upset. If Tom Friedman had in the article said " I was had" or that "I was naive and taken advantage of", one would say let me think about it and take a note. This is not the first time Saudi regime has kidnapped and/or killed people for political reasons. The history of the regime is replete with such acts of terror. Even last year, the master Saudi terrorist MBS, who Friedman so glowingly supported and fell in love with Trumpian style, kidnapped PM of Lebanon. The question is what gives? Did he have to wait until now to figure out the nature of the brutal regime in all its manifestation? But, let's put everything on the table. Let's be honest. Tom Friedman's love for the Saudi mad man has zero to do with "reform". People like Friedman care little about millions of people starving in Yemen, or that Saudi women can drive or not. Their world revolves around who is with Israel. MBS loves Israel, so it seems Friedman loves MBS. It is as simple as that. Now for his own financial survival he has to pretend he cares for his "friend" Jamal. Give me a break!!!
31
The US overthrows foreign governments and creates global instability, so we shouldn't throw too many stones at MBS.
3
Please stop calling Mohammed bin Salman by his initials MBS.
Really. Stop.
That's just a sneaky ad campaign that is supposed to make the latest Crown Prince of a backwards, dangerous, repressive country look normal.
He's not normal.
Thomas, that article you wrote previously almost made me ill. You bought into the advertising campaign.
You bought into believing Mohammed's smack. You bought into his slickness.
He's not modern. Women are still not driving in Saudi Arabia. They still have to walk around looking like giant black penguins. They can't vote, they have no voice, they are owned, they are pushed down. Those who try to push up against Mohammed's violent hands are now in jail.
In. Jail.
Just like Jamal. He went to the embassy where he was undoubtedly tortured and then killed.
Mohammed is just like the men who came before him: Iron fisted. A liar. Spending hundreds of millions of dollars on toys while he prevents freedom of the press, religion, and thought.
Trump should take action. But he won't. He was THRILLED to go to that weird little Saudi party where there were fires and drum banging and odd dancing going on with, of course, NO WOMEN, as they were home in their penguin outfits.
Speak out, Thomas. You're a journalist, keep speaking for your friend. Maybe countries with better presidents will do something here - like put Saudi Arabia back in their pre-historic cave until they promise to stop killing/hanging/shooting people.
MLB. What a joke.
112
@Katie
So true!
5
@Katie That was great. Well done.
2
"What Western leader, and how many Western investors, will want to stand alongside M.B.S. if it is proved that his government abducted or murdered Jamal?"
Donald J. Trump foams at the mouth for the opportunity to shout up his detractors while Mitch McConnell refers to protestors voicing their First Amendment rights as "mob-like";
Vladimir Putin abducts and jails his critics every day;
Recep Erdogan, despite his sudden concern for Jamal Khashoggi, jails and kills critics of his regime;
Benjamin Netanyahu muzzles the rights and freedoms of Palestinians every day - condemning them to live in squalor;
Hungary's right-wing ruler, Victor Orban, bans groups that help immigrants and refugees;
The right-wing Polish government tries to rewrite history proclaiming Poles were not involved in Nazi concentration camps;
Interpol Chief Meng Hongwei is detained in China on charges of "suspicion of violating the law";
And you ask who will want to stand with Mohammed bin Salman? The line is forming at the door.
36
After 9/11, when most of the terrorists came from Saudi Arabia, why didn't Bush invade them? Why did his lackeys out the only CIA woman brave enough to tell the truth--Iraq has no yellowcake uranium. How many spy networks were compromised? How many people were killed?
Read "House of Bush, House of Saud"
22
@Rocky Mtn girl Because their government is our ally and defeating them would not be so easy.
Tom, you've been conned or an accomplice.
16
Friedman has some nerve to write a column like this, where he outs a source in paragraph two. Shameful.
8
Praying for your friend.
2
Tom, regardless of your "I said this and I said that," the fact is that, once again, you came out strongly and pretty much open-armed to yet another despot spouting platitudes people like you like to hear.
Why does the Saudi crown prince feel he can do whatever he wants? Because of people like you and the cover and support and endorsement you give people like him.
Have you ever (and I mean ever) come out with such "thinking" about reformers in Iran ("here's what one can realistically expect: it won't be perfection but it can be enormous progress?"). Why not?
Are the Iranians, with the closest thing to a fully functional democracy in the Middle East (and I very much include Israel in that group), really so much less deserving of your "understanding" than yet another tin pot dictator or prince?
32
When Iran elected a modern leader in 1951, the US and UK overthrew him and put the shah in power.
2
The death of this journulist should be condemned by everyone. Here, I may point out another murder which was unnoticed by anyone as he was killed by ISI, the Pakistani intelligence agency. Syed Saleem Shahzad Syed Saleem Shahzad born in Karachi, Pakistan Died 30 May 2011 (aged 40)
Cause of death Torture and Murder
Body discovered 30 May 2011 in Upper Jhelum canal
Residence Karachi
Nationality Pakistani
Citizenship Pakistan
Alma mater Government National College
Karachi University
Occupation Journalist
Employer Asia Times Online
Adnkronos
Known for Exposing links between ISI and Al-Qaeda[1]
Home town Karachi
Title Pakistan Bureau Chief
Facts taken from Wikipedia. He was found dead in a canal in North-east Pakistan, showing signs of torture, a day after he was kidnapped. Human Rights Watch (HRW) accused the Pakistan intelligence services of being behind his killing, and Obama Administration later announced that they had "reliable and conclusive" intelligence that this was the case. Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) denied the accusations and called them "totally unfounded"
28
It's nauseating for me to see this guy sticking his nose in our affairs and attributing the problems in the Middle East solely on religious Islamic teachings. Islam has been around for over a thousand years and the violence has been a normal reaction to the Zionists interference in the U.S. foreign policy.
I hope he would once criticize the intransigence of Israel to negotiate a final and lasting peace by utilising the Arab Peace Initiative.
This will allow the whole region to prosper and save countless Jewish, Arabic, and even American lives.
3
@Khalidi
Never mention how old your particular Religon is in a counter argument. After all, religions are nothing more than cults wether they are 1000 years old or relatively recent. Scientology anyone. The sooner people understand this the better.
4
@Khalid
Sir, your Salafi/Wahabi religion is NOT Islam and has been around for less than 100 years. Israel has nothing to do with this article. Violence is NEVER normal!
Also the Article is about SA citizen being butchered by Saudi Government for using his pen.
8
@Steve
It's not about religion at all, but some people like to make it the cause of the problem when in fact, it's their agenda and interests that unfortunately cause this mess to continue.
Ever since the U.S. was stirred to provide comfort and support to the Zionists state, all we have seen is wars and atrocities.
A land-grab dispute can never be explained as a clash of civilization.
But Trump doesn't care about this, he has already shown whom he favours, and that is the man with the money, Mohammad Bin Salman. That is all this administration is concerned with.
9
Tom, this is disgraceful. It was not so long ago you were fawning over MBS. Now you are virtually calling him a genocidal maniac. Which is he and which Tom is writing which column? I wonder if the Editorial staff is paying any attention to you, because you are surely becoming another Judith Miller!
24
Nice back pedaling Mr. Friedman. At least have the nerve to admit you have been mostly wrong about your deep and fawning optimism for an insecure, delusional, and cruel regime practically incapable of joining the modern world. Your entire column is one big equivocation.
19
Tom always takes in the big picture. The slaughter in Yemen, well not too great. But what can you do. Women driving. Hope it doesn't stop there. Authoritarian killer. Well he helps bring in the modern age. The US should reign him in. Why? Kindred spirits egging each other on. A role model for Trump. If could only to be young again.
5
@Robert Roth How might we do that, and why should we. If we can do that why can't say Russia or China reign in our government? MYOB, and internal affairs of foreign countries are not really our business.
“And the Saudi-United Arab Emirates war in Yemen has been so badly botched that the Saudis have been accused of possible war crimes, even though Iran and the Houthi rebels had also contributed mightily to Yemen’s destruction.”
Possible war crimes? How many school buses have to be bombed and how many children have to starve to death because of the blockade before we can drop the “possible”? And Iran has done very little here. And you forgot to include the support given by the US under both Obama and Trump, whichnis far greater than anything the Iranians have done for the Houthis.
And your claim that the possible murder of a friend of yours is worse than a genocidal war is very revealing of your moral values. Yes, this murder is bad, but no, it isn’t worse than the bombing and starving of children. You seem to think in terms of people who matter and people who don’t. Or maybe it is a question of what will scare off investors. There is actually plenty of money to be made by selling arms to the Saudis, as Trump and Pompeo know.
19
Thomas,
You say "killing Khashoggi will be a disaster for the regime of Mohammed bin Salman." So easy for you to say this. You must have forgotten what Saudis have gotten away with in the past! Which nation do you have in mind willing to bear effective pressure on Saudi government for such a ghastly act? In a week after the facts are out Khashoggi will be remembered only by close relatives.
4
Tommy, when you had that "chance encounter at 17th and K Streets in Washington" with Jamal, was that as a journalist or a lobbyist (or somewhere in between)?
We can't afford to be "Quiet Americans" anymore.
"We can't act like an Empire"
4
"What Western leader, and how many Western investors, will want to stand alongside M.B.S. if it is proved that his government abducted or murdered Jamal?"
Donald John Trump.
8
@Dadof2 -- And all of them before Trump too, all the way back.
2
MBS also specializes in kidnapping. He kidnapped
Saad Hariri, PM of Lebanon, and was released
at the intervention of president macron. He also
kidnapped other princes and businessman
and realeased after they paid $100 billions into his coffers. He was supposedly fighting corruption.
He bought a yatch for $400 M, a painting
for $450 M and a French villa for $300M and spending more millions on renovation. Spending
spree totals to more than $1B. Where is he getting
the money from. May be Daddy is giving him
pocket money. His tackling of corruption is a
joke. If Trump university was not closed he
could get his phD with dissertation on corruption.
24
Enlightened despotism is still, at its heart, despotism. Reform of Saudi Arabia cannot come from the ruling family. It is a folly to believe that dictators will ever be more than dictators...they are the most homogeneous of creatures. Their behavior is always the same. Reform leads to criticism which leads to a crack down. They then rule like their fathers until they die and the cycle starts over. Reformers that live inside of dictatorships have always been fools. If you want change in a dictatorship, then you have to rid yourself of the dictatorship.
11
If this did indeed happen as suggested, then Turkey's dictator Erdogan should recognize this violence as being similar to his own.
2
@Harry Mazal
Erdogan was democratically elected for all of his faults and nearly a victim of a coup supported by the axis of evil - Netanyahu-MBS-MBZ which you no doubt support.
1
The other thing to mention about Canada's tussle with Saudi Arabia is that we were protesting on behalf of a Canadian citizen, which we are duty bound to do.
Contrast the Saudis, who stand accused of murdering their own citizen in the consulate, which ought to give him sanctuary.
15
Very interesting column.
It seems the Saudi rulers are playing their part in a very tough area of the world where the normal rules dont work and you cant play by the rules.
With Iran on one side and Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Hezbollah, Hamas etc on the other side and most of the mid-east ruled by a bunch of rough thugs, with the only way to stay in power thru the gun, no-one can really blame the Saudis. Have you ever heard the words "Human Rights" in the rough and tumble of the mid-east ?
Hey, the Iranians have killed thousands and no-one says boo ... Syria uses chemical weapons and killed and impoverished it's own citizens ... Dictators have their methods... and when the Saudis imprisoned and killed many of their own people no-one said one word ...
But when a so-called westerner is killed in Turkey Mr Friedman writes a long column ... what a waste of words ...
"What Western leader, and how many Western investors, will want to stand alongside M.B.S. if it is proved that his government abducted or murdered Jamal? (And the truth will come out.)"
Um, Trump?
4
When Mr. Friedman starts telling us things will get better in 6 months for his friend, we will know for sure that things are actually getting worse and will continue to do so.
4
I've been saying for years that we should turn our backs on Saudi Arabia and realign with Iran. The Iranian rulers are despots, but America has much more common ground with the more open and civilized society of the Iranian people than we do these Wahhabi thugs.
13
@Jim So you want to be friends with those that shout "death to America" and align with terrorists opposed to our interests. How foolish!!!
This is a tragedy. We already know the outcome. Friedman has to be the most gullible foreign correspondent of all time. No one sang the praises of MBS more. If Donald Trump had arrested 500 leading Democrats, charging them with "corruption", would we be admiring his "boldness"? The assumption is that due process of law just gets in the way in countries like Saudi Arabia. Dictators make things happen! Saudi Arabia is now being ruled by a guy who recently bought, on impulse, a $550 million yacht. Dropped another $450 million for a Renaissance painting. Where did such a young man come up with that kind of cash? Is this the sort of "thinking' that impresses Friedman? The young prince is simply consolidating his position for the throne & eliminating perceived threats. I wish Friedman would stop peddling articles that sell the Saudi narrative & ask some tough questions. MBS claims to be a reformer but leads a life which is the envy of ultra rich. MBS is a product of the same system he purports to loathe. MBS is as greedy & corrupt as they come. It will be interesting to see how much Saudi money has gone into buying the U.S. press, academia & government officials to sing the virtues of this Saudi boy-wonder. Saudi Arabia is dictatorship. Accommodating to the US & foreign press. Ruthless when anyone threatens their interests. This columnist has belatedly realized he was a willing participant in this chicanery. Don't be surprised if the end result is the overthrow of the monarchy.
13
On whether MBS or his agents had any hand in murdering Jamal, this statement by Tom is so disgusting:
"It would be an unfathomable violation of norms of human decency, worse not in numbers but in principle than even the Yemen war."
Obviously both the murder of Jamal and the Saudi war in Yemen (supported by the US) are tragic, but to equate the two is a bit much. In Yemen, Saudi bombing and blockades have killed tens of thousands, and continue to create conditions of famine and help spread cholera, a disease that should not even be mentioned in the 21st century. This is not meant to downplay the horror of Mr. Khashoggi's murder, but to highlight the fact that the Yemeni war receives little coverage or international outcry, most likely because of US support for its unruly ally Saudi Arabia.
Judging off of his past articles slobbering all over MBS and other oppressive regimes as "modernizers," I would never expect Mr. Friedman to show nuanced understanding of anything other than what his wealthy handlers tell him or what he sees from the back of his taxicab. But this statement, in the paper of record, shows such a disregard for the lives of the people Yemen that it deserves some sort of formal apology by either Mr. Friedman or the NYTimes.
12
Saudi Prince Says Turkey Can Search Consulate for Missing Critic and allowed Turkey to search the kingdom’s consulate in Istanbul for a Saudi journalist critical of his rule who went missing after entering the building.
The premises are sovereign territory, but the Crown Prince allowed them to enter and search and do whatever they want to do,” Prince Mohammed said in an interview on Wednesday at a royal palace in Riyadh.
We have nothing to hide. he included
The Crown Prince allowed then to enter the Consulate becasue Saudi is confident about and to emphasis that he was kidnapped when he left the Consulates.
Also, the Turkish authorities did not publish any statements about his disappearance. Because their might be a Third Part who's involved in Kidnapping the Saudi Critic Jamal Khashoggi. As well as President Erdogan declared that investigations are still going on with all of this, everything is being inspected especially entries,exits out and in of Istanbul,and the airports.
Furthermore, This articles relies on unreliable sources such as Al-Jazeerah who first confirmed his death before the Turkish authorities.
Thus, The international Media is a victim in this case because they took the new from unreliable sources.
5
@Sultan For sure when we see an articles relies on untrusted sources, we will think thats for sure is politicizing issues. His death is not certain, beside Saudi Arabia have nothing to hide. Jamal lift the consulate after 20 minutes. Then he disappeared.
@Sultan and the Turkey police have searched and check the Saudi consulate and nothing was founded, as you said how can Aljazeerah channel conformed his death ! how sure they are is scary because the police did not confirmed that that's disrespectful for his family they are concerned about him so how can you confirm his death and hurts their emotions.
@Sultan
With apologies to Casablanca
'Round up the usual suspects'!
The China model looks very similar to the Trump model.
7
you sold us a lot of snake oil Mr. Friedman. This mea culpa doesn't cut it. The man (MBS) is power drunk, he was manipulated by Mr. Kushner and Mr. Trump to deliver the Palestinians on Jerusalem, and to sell off his oil wealth for American arms and tacit support for his brutal war in Yemen. We should have seen through his psychotic embrace of his own imagined power when he tried to shut down Qatar (and now promises to turn it into an island). He is the worst oil money created monster that SA has produced and its about time we stepped on his parade.
34
A red flag went up for me when last December it was widely reported that a high-ranking Saudi military officer was tortured to death while in custody as part of the Ritz Carlton crack down which was widely seen as an attempt by MBS to consolidate power. I hope the truth about Khashoggi's disappearance is revealed soon. What we do know is he walked into the Saudi embassy and never walked out. Looks like MBS is following Putin's playbook.
20
Saudi Arabia is our enemy. They made this very very clear to us.
9
" What Western leader will want to stand alongside M.B.S. if it is proved that his government abducted or murdered Jamal?" Donald Trump.
4
“If this deeply disturbing news report is confirmed, the United States & the civilized world must respond strongly, and I will review all options in Senate,” Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) tweeted Sunday,
I agree with Marco Rubio.
16
Respectfully, Mr. Friedman, while I strongly support your sentiments regarding Jamal Khashoogi, your initial warm embrace of MBS was premature: (1) It was this utterly inexperienced, intellectually shallow 32 years prince who made the decision to initiate war on Yemen, killing 10000 innocent Yemenis. MBS total blockade of Yemen, subjecting 17 million innocent civilians to collective punishment may will constitute war crime. You can not put this at the feet of the Shia Yemenis, the overwhelming majority of long oppressed Yemen population oppressed by deeply corrupt Sunni minority government the Saudi supported, nor at the feet of Iran which is lending support to Shia majority co-religionists under siege, and to counter the cold war vis-à-vis the US/Israel/Saudi Arabia coalition; (2) Associating MBS with economic reform too is misleading. Is not he the prince who promised austerity and fight against corruption, and yet at the same time this very young prince with no legitimate income purchased the most expensive home in the world for a whopping $ 300 million dollars outside of Paris, a property he rarely uses; (3) Fundamental religious reform in Saudi Arabia would aim at the grand bargain: Saudi clerical establishment ending ‘religious legitimacy’ to this corrupt monarchy in exchange for receiving support to spread Wahabism and Salafism, extremist versions of a moderate religion which gave us Bin Laden and ISIS. This prince has not taken a single step in this regard.
13
@Jim Bob
Spot on analysis!
1
"Praying" ? ?
The last thing we need is more encouragement of delusions of super-beings in the sky.
Those delusions, marketed all over Planet Earth, are diverting our deluded human species from focus on the reality that we are igniting processes of climate change that will eradicate our human civilization and species.
No more praying! Focus on, and deal with, reality.
12
In the current international political situation Salman could very well get away with it.Moral outrage is hardly at its highest at the moment.
6
MBS spent 450 million on a Leonardo painting of Christ.I am sure the ordinary citizen in Saudi was not too happy.Also I think he went ballistic calling back many students here in Canada studying medicine.In a hundred years from now we will not be hearing much about this oil country.
7
In a hundred years hardly anyone living today will hear anything. Just saying ...
I do not believe in prayers, prayers do nothing. The alarm bells should have gone off when trump so openly embraced M.B.S. since trump envisions himself as a totalitarian dictator and admires other strong arm dictators.
It is safe and sad to say that Jamal Khashoggi is dead or the Saudis after so much press would have produced him by now. What needs to be replaced is the Saudi royal family but we know that is not going to happen. We need to "China" M.B.S. but again with trump we know that is not going to happen.
6
To answer your question about Western leaders and investors: a lot of them would stand with MBS if it turns out he had a journalist murdered. Why wouldn’t they? They stand with murderers all the time. And they’ve stood with this particular one and his predecessors since the Kingdom was founded.
9
Almost all of the men involved in the 9/11 attacks were Saudi. Yet the US took no steps against the country or the families and friends of these young men. We still don't know if the Saudi government was involved or at a minimum had prior knowledge of the attacks. While Saudi Arabia is not going to become a democracy or a country where women are given full rights in the near future, we are in great trouble if a country like Turkey is taking the lead in holding Saudi Arabia responsible for the murder of their citizen in a foreign country. Would the US do more if this had happened here in Washington? I fear the answer is no. Very sad, as our President likes to say.
12
I agree with your column.
But why not call out the Government of China too, for arresting or (probaly a better word would be) kidnapping the Chinese head of Interpol who "disapeared" whilst on a visit to China ? Is this not gross violation of human rights and a sign of Chinese ambivalence to the world to kidnap the Head of Interpol ?
4
"Saudi Arabia is not China. It needs friends."
Seriously? Donald Trump is M.B.S.'s biggest friend. Why on earth do you think he had the chutzpah to "go nuclear" with Canada? Because Trump couldn't care less about human rights and woudn't say a word about it.
M.B.S. and The Donald have big plans to become even more obscenely rich, and they're in cahoots to do exactly that. Saudi Arabia is gobbling up opportunities to invest in this country, and Donald Trump is waiting until he's out of office to make billions in Saudi Arabia. Two bullies on a global power grab.
The unfathomable violation of norms of human decency occurred on November 8, 2016. The rest is gravy--a gravy train that's headed straight toward the bank accounts of Mohammed bin Salman and Donald Trump.
25
In the Arab world, particularly in Saudi Arabia, theocratic regime considered 'opposition' as a heretic. During the era of Mohammad Bin Salman 'opposition' is deemed as an enemy. Whosoever disapproves of government policies, must be silenced. The tragedy is: during both the era of 'theocracy' and 'autocracy' in Kingdom Saudi Arabia, the United States stood as a mute spectator.
9
These are the same guys that provided the manpower that crashed airplanes into buildings on 9/11...and we responded by helping the other high-ranking Saudis that were here to secretly fly back to Saudi Arabia in the aftermath to escape any unpleasant investigations.
Ever since then, it has been pretty obvious that Saudi Arabia has carte blanche to murder anyone they would like, with impunity as far as the US is concerned.
25
@Ken Lawson
Right, Friedman only last year wrote his fawning piece about MBS.
3
"It would be an unfathomable violation of norms of human decency, worse not in numbers but in principle than even the Yemen war. "
You, have you lost any sense of human decency? To compare the death of an insider who played a dangerous game with a smiling dictator to thousands of mostly innocent deaths? The death of the young children in the bus bombed by the Saudi airplanes more decent than that of a fallen courtier? The small elite is loosing common sense.
15
... It would be an unfathomable violation of norms of human decency, ...
Going by the recent events in Washington, these norms are getting frayed even here.
4
Whimsical that you would think it was "extremists" around M.B.S calling the shots and not M.B.S.
Jolting and immoral that you would weigh the loss of your friend on par or greater than the carnage in Yemen.
Maybe if a parade of Yemeni ghosts visited you on 17th and K Streets, maybe then you might see the folly and immorality of your position.
And M.B.S. is a symptom of the Saudi problem: money money money without much more in the way of values, ethos, principles, accomplishments. Such a ship eventually sinks, when the money runs low.
9
Let me tell you. It hasn't happened in the United States, yet. Maybe unless travelling abroad. Reporters now at risk that President Donald J. Trump is in office. And it's only his first term.
5
Praying for the safe return of your friend, Jamal Khashoggi, is like praying for drought during Noah's Flood, Dr. Tom. President Trump has been in league with Mohammed bin Sultan since they cemented their imperial relationship in May, 2017 in Saudi Arabia. With close friends like Donald Trump, MBS doesn't need to worry about whether or not Jamal Khashoggi is alive and still in the Saudi Arabian Embassy in Turkey. We have seen that natural and unnatural disasters have a social media way of panning out to Trump's advantage -- like Trump's blaming the Democrats today for "angry mob-rule", and their Brett Kavanaugh " made-up hoax" by Dr. Christine Blasey Ford.
8
In Saudi Arabia even the mildest show of political or social dissent, can be deemed punishable by the death penalty. Currently five Saudi women political activists are waiting to see if the appeal of their death sentence by beheading is successful or will be upheld by M.B.S.
Every time I think of the ghoulish Wilbur Ross praising the absence of protesters during the Trump visit to Saudi Arabia in 2017, my blood boils.
15
With all due respect Thomas, aren't you being naive about the Saudis? Yes, Saudi Arabia really is threatened by women driving activists. And no, religious extremism is not a problem for the Saudi government it is a natural ally of the Saudi government, and always was. Also, the political assassination of a critic, a violation of norms of human decency, does not threaten the power of the Saudi monarchy, it reinforces it. We are in a new world order, one initiated by Trump and Putin, where the moral landscape is flattened and obliterated. Al Queda, ISIS, and now the Saudi Monarchy have become experiments in wedding religious extremism with political opportunism. And, contrary to Friedman's message it is not hurting the Saudis, it is helping them to gain power. And the reason that they can get away with this is because the current American President is behind them one hundred percent.
12
@Charles Justice -- "a new world order, one initiated by Trump and Putin, where the moral landscape is flattened and obliterated"
Because Friedman stood up to the Saudis over 9/11 or anything else?
Because any past Administration ever stood up to the Saudis for any of it?
It was this way a long time before Trump and Putin. They have done nothing to help, and won't, but they did nothing to make it this way either. This is how they found it. And Friedman was part of all that made it so.
3
@Mark Thomason There is a world of difference, even between Trump and Bush II. After 9/11 Bush did not verbally attack Muslims. Bush actually made an attempt at a bipartisan solution to immigration. Trump is all about stoking the fires of bigotry. He is a Fascist.
I have had a hard time finding a reason for westerners to involve themselves in a dispute between Sunnis and Shia. Especially since it was Sunni extremists of the Saudi Arabian Wahhabi sect who were deemed to be responsible for the attack on 9/11. The situation drips with irony as the Neverending War on Terror goes on into its 17th year.
6
People make a very good point that the MBS government is committing war crimes in Yemen; killing a journalist is not morally worse than those outrageous. Nonetheless, murdering someone inside a diplomatic mission would be wrongdoing of a different kind, in that it involves using diplomatic immunity to commit a serious crime while on the soil of another country.
Of course, let's remember that so far, Turkey has failed to produce any evidence for these allegations. And Erdogan is not exactly a reliable source of information about his own or others' rights abuses.
4
This is the end result of taking any tact in regards to any country that does not offer freedom to its people to pray, to speak out, to move around, to love whomever, or just to live.
There is no ''China tact'', or ''Russia tact'', or ''Saudi Arabia'' tact. There is only the blinders on to human rights' abuses, and to deal with totalitarians, dictators, or regimes for the hypocritical purposes of states or corporations that put business above a human life.
That is it.
We can 'hope'' that those regimes or dictators will not do their human rights abuses in public, or make ''disappear'' the colloquial press agents, because they supposedly are doing their job and shining light on these abuses.
We could shut down the oil, or the imports of cheap goods, and do much more than supposedly outcry in opinion columns to get back our ''friends'' but that would mean we justify all of the other innocents without press badges that do not have friends to write columns about them.
Regards.
3
This is the end result of taking any tact in regards to any country that does not offer freedom to its people to pray, to speak out, to move around, to love whomever, or just to live.
There is no ''China tact'', or ''Russia tact'', or ''Saudi Arabia'' tact. There is only the blinders on to human rights' abuses, and to deal with totalitarians, dictators, or regimes for the hypocritical purposes of states or corporations that put business above a human life.
That is it.
We can 'hope'' that those regimes or dictators will not do their human rights abuses in public, or make ''disappear'' the colloquial press agents, because they supposedly are doing their job and shining light on these abuses.
We could shut down the oil, or the imports of cheap goods, and do much more than supposedly outcry in opinion columns to get back our ''friends'' but that would mean we justify all of the other innocents without press badges that do not have friends to write columns about them.
Regards.
10
If the consulate doesn't produce him alive, then WE have to take action as Turkey, because Khashoggi I believe was also an American citizen, and he was a regular correspondent for the Washington Post. If we don't do anything, it's to America's eternal shame.
9
I wonder if the 'dark side' of M.B.S. came out with the growing relationship with Jared and Trump.
Hope there is a happy outcome for this.
8
The U.S. partly owns this. Trump has cozied up to this regime big time, implicitly greenlighting its bad behaviour. When Canada’s Foreign Affairs Ministry commented mildly on Saudi Arabia’s human rights and free speech oppression recently, the regime went berserk and massively overreacted, withdrawing thousands of students from Canadian colleges and cancelling defence contracts. And the U.S. was silent on that, leaving Canada hung out to dry.
Yeah, free speech.
12
Why would it be a disaster for them? We've moved into the kleptocratic age. The US has no moral high ground. There is no moral high ground. All governments may kill with impunity. The best way not to die is to not be a threat to someone who can kill you. Because they will. Oh, and today's news of the White House discussing the overthrow of the Venezuelan government with disaffected Venezuelan military officers. Can't see how that could end badly.
8
Interesting perspective indeed. If this is an apology, admission, or justification of your previous columns on the topic, I am afraid it is a bit too late. It brings your support of the Iraq war under GWB to mind. Let's not hold our collective breath for "hard evidence" to surface? Yemen was not enough of a hint? The terrorist attack in Iran on October 4th when 20+ people lost their lives; many civilian wasn't a hint? Saudi women might be able to drive now, but fires are being fanned in that region.
17
II wouldn’t be too surprised if Trump shamelessly brings out the we’ve killed people too justification.
14
Tom Friedman, you are being too gentle with yourself. Your gushing swoon over MBS has proven unjustified and may have even empowered the prince’s thuggish actions. An apology is in order.
27
Im sorry Tom but this is a classic case of too little too late. Your previous articles were supportive of MBS and you gave him the cover from real criticism with your near fawning articles of his reforms.
Its time America really took Saudi Arabia to task for the evil it creates in the world. Seal Team 6 needs to air dropped in Riyadh to deal with these criminals. MBS should be an international pariah the likes of Omar Bashir.
32
@Joe
Typical attitude. We'll just drop a Seal team in and all will be fixed up.
Here's an idea. Stay out of the world's affairs. Look after your own.
2
@Joe uh, not gonna happen cause #oil
1
You haven't learned a thing. You praised Mohammed bin Salman and excused the Saudi Royal Family like it was 2003 all over again. You knew then that The Iraq War was built on lies yet you still wrote "Because We Could."
You wrote: "The failure of the Bush team to produce any weapons of mass destruction (W.M.D.'s) in Iraq is becoming a big, big story...It was the wrong issue before the war, and it's the wrong issue now. Why? Because...The ''real reason'' for this war, which was never stated, was that after 9/11 America needed to hit someone in the Arab-Muslim world. Afghanistan wasn't enough. Because a terrorism bubble had built up over there -- a bubble that posed a real threat to the open societies of the West and needed to be punctured. This terrorism bubble said that plowing airplanes into the World Trade Center was O.K....The only way to puncture that bubble was for American soldiers...to go into the heart of the Arab-Muslim world, house to house, and make clear that we are ready to kill, and to die, to prevent our open society from being undermined by this terrorism bubble. Smashing Saudi Arabia or Syria would have been fine. But we hit Saddam for one simple reason: because we could, and because he deserved it...And don't believe the nonsense that this had no effect."
It had an effect. It totally undermined "open societies of the West." It gave rise to nativism and authoritarianism. It's why Trump is in power, why NATO is in tatters, why fascism rises again in Europe.
62
@Robert B I think you have the sign of Friedman's comment wrong.
"It would be an unfathomable violation of norms of human decency, worse not in numbers but in principle than even the Yemen war."
Are you kidding me? The alleged death of your friend is worse in principle than the genocide being carried out in Yemen?
You spent a year running PR for a regime actively engaged in war crimes... This cannot be surprising to you.
83
Mohammed Bin Salman's conduct makes Saddam Hussain, Erdogan and Ali Khomeini look like benevolent dictators.
3
Weaskforanhonestanswer: Praying to what god? What god would enable this kind of behavior?
5
I think Friedman should have stuck to writing on technology. He really has no understanding of Middle Eastern politics. He has been flattered and treated as an “expert” and he has reciprocated with complimentary commentaries. He must be humiliated by what has evolved in Saudi Arabia and he should perhaps plan on retirement
26
@Wolfman He has very little understanding of technology. He just breathlessly repeats the tech marketing spin of the moment. Maybe household cleening tips?
4
This is a regrettably mealy mouthed and reluctant way of Friedman saying MBS is a thug.
15
So, Tom, is this is your “Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa,” column, written to make amends for all your past, fawning coverage of MBS and his gangster clique? Incidentally, there is no China model, only the same, tired old Putin model: ruthlessly consolidate power, allow your cronies to make money in exchange for fealty, and sway the masses with cosmetic changes and a little razzle-dazzle. Putin, Xi, Trump, Erdogan, Bin Salman, Duterte, Bolsonaro, Orban, Kaczynski, the list goes on and on. Where are our Roosevelts, Churchills, and De Gauls? We had better find them soon.
29
@Walter Bruckner, don't hold your breathe. I am still waiting for his "mea culpa" for supporting the Bush invasion of Iraq based upon imaginary WMD's.
1
Tom, you got conned into writing a puff piece for the wolf in sheep's clothing.
Conned.
I hope you feel contrite for packaging MBS for the western world. It would be a real mea culpa if you included a categorical declaration in your next column that you weren't paid to write that piece, and that you were just swinging for the fences with one of those "See I was a genius" predictions that only work out 0.1% of the time.
Because, even someone with a rudimentary knowledge of Saudi Arabia would have been more careful in championing MBS than you were.
Also, let's be honest: this column isn't about praying for Khashoggi.
It's about you showing your readers that you knew the dangers posed by MBS. That you aren't the fool he played you for.
Sorry. Just because you're a liberal doesn't mean that I'm not going to call you out on what I see as idiocy...
47
@Patrician
Couldn't have written any better. Awesome comment.
2
@Patrician: liberal? ROFL.
1
Ahhhh I seem to recall that Mr. Friedman had much good to say about Salman. That was not too soon after Salman threw the Palestinians under the bus.
Coinidence?
10
@Mark:
Anti-Semite?
@bobw
Why, b/c he mentioned the Palestinians? MBS did throw them under the bus. The puff piece Friedman wrote about MBS is here: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/23/opinion/saudi-prince-mbs-arab-spring....
@bobw Ha! If one sees the need for justice for the Palestinian cause, it does notmake you an anti-semite.
Friedman is disturbed that MBS is flirting with the "China Model." I can't imagine what champion of China he could be reading...
Now you know, Tom, what it feels like to be everyone reading your columns for the past decade...
8
Hey Tom,
How about you write a column about all the Palestinian political prisoners being held by Israel?! I promise I will post a link on social media.
28
The Trump administration will not do anything about this, as they see MBS as a strongman and don't really care about lack of morale or ethics from somebody who buys 50 B $+ of weapons. MBS is even willing to do Israels bidding in the war mongering against Iran,
The sad thing is that this seems to be the opinion of many if not most americans as well, given recent elections.
16
I'm sorry, but this should not be news. I barely follow Saudi Arabia and I know this MBS creep is a thug and a murderer. How could you not know this? Really Tom, the gloablist ship has been sunk. Better get off it.
16
You may have had it right in the Nov 7 column. Of MBS you said, "He is a young man in a hurry." As we see in the US, democracy and going fast are opposites. The point of moving from monarchy to democracy is to slow the decision making process down so everyone can be a part of it. Leaders, like MBS and Trump, who want to make important decisions quickly aren't fans of democratic forms of government. People in the West aren't smarter now because of democracy. They are more honest and know that hard problems take time to solve. Monarchs, like MBS and DJT are dishonest, for they don't really have all the best available information and make the decision that best suits them, not their country's best interests. Your prayers for Jamal are nothing less than prayers for a something already lost: deliberate democracy.
15
Tom Friedman's articles about bin Salman and Saudi Arabia read like John Reed and other "intellectuals" trying to justify the worst excesses of the Bolsheviks. Stop wringing your hands and admit the obvious - bin Salman is a murderous thug, no different from Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi, and Bashar al-Assad.
43
@Dan
Oh sure, those pesky intellectuals who can actually think, as opposed to regressives know nothing who disdain and have utter contempt for anyone "speaking intelligent," expressing complex thoughts, or using words they don't understand.
3
Saudi have never been our "friend", They are b9gots and racists. They sponsored the terrorists who committed 9/11. They are enemies of human rights and advanced civilization. They are only associates with fellow multi-national billionaires and wanna-be millionaires like the Bush cabal.
64
Friedman fawned over Mohammed bin Salman in columns less than a year ago. Even now, after his friend has been killed, he is trying to rationalize a hopelessly naive view of MBS. Friedman has zero credibility on Middle East issues. He panders to the Davos crowd and is out of touch on this and many other issues. His columns, especially that infamous op-ed last November on MBS, are honestly an embarrassment to this paper.
77
@Ned
Yea, and don't even try to tell us YOU have never changed your mind about something, or reassessed a prior opinion.
You are the embarrassment when you pick one instance of someone's writings and hold that up as an indictment of the man's life.
3
@Ned Naive? Sort of exculpation.
It must have been painful to write this.
I fervently hope that Jamal Khashoggi is found safe and can return to his invaluable work.
10
"[H]ard-line advisers who were urging M.B.S. to follow the “China model.’’ These advisers pointed out to him what happened when China asserted itself in the South China Sea: After it seized islands, the world complained, but when China responded by saying “get lost,’’ the world backed down."
If the core principles and values contained in the Declaration of Independence, the U.S. Constitution, and the Gettysburg Address guided American foreign policy, Saudis would not have murdered Jamal Khashoggi, China would not have seized islands in the South China Sea, and America would not have allowed U.S. corporations to abandon America workers for slave wages in China - which provided the Chinese government the wealth and technology to become the world's most dangerous enemy against democracy.
The problem is not that Saudi Arabia does not understand that they need "constructive critics," the problem is Orwellian nightmare nations have grown in influence because we have abandoned our core American principles. It is beyond time for all free and open societies end trade with brutal Orwellian nightmare nations.
35
@MLB I agree !
"Praying for Jamal" is about as effective as a key-to -disk data entry company in Massachusetts, that I knew in the 1970s', having their employees standing around their disk drive --- which they stupidly didn't OEM from a major disk manufacturer, but instead built themselves without any experience --- and "praying that it would work correctly".
The disk drive never worked, the company died, and that's about 99% likely what happened to Jamal.
As Kurt Vonnegut says, "and so it goes".
When Empires fight dirty --- people die.
8
@Alan MacDonald
Even when a single disguised global capitalist Empire fights dirty --- which it always does --- people die.
3
I think the ancient tradition of diplomatic immunity is going to be reexamined. Diplomats have always been spies; there is little practical way to avoid that. However using an embassy or consulate as a base station for murder in the host country, or even, as in this case, the actual site of murder, is inevitably going to change the rules. How can it not?
36
Extrajudicial murder is not the exclusive preserve of despotic nation’s like Saudi Arabia and Russia. President Obama authorized a team US Navy Seals to invade Pakistan, kidnap and murder Osama bin Laden and dump his corpse into the ocean. And got away with it.
7
@Robert RichardsonI am a 71 year old woman but if I could I would have you speak to people whose loved ones were killed by Bin Laden. You are either mentally ill or a spy yourself. Watch your back.
7
@mary you think it’s okay for your President to kill people without a trial? If so, you should be watching your back!
@Robert Richardson It's obscene to compare Bin Laden to Khashoggi.
5
Thomas ,
You have not been paying attention. The USA has signalled its belief that Saudi is right to do what it may on its sovereign territory even if it may be a consulate or embassy. The Saudis have removed their citizens from our territory and Canada stands alone in its commitment to human rights be more important than economics. Our government committed to values and ethics being more important than economics and thanks to the leadership of the USA, Russia, and China Canada stands alone..
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/aug/11/canada-saudi-arabia-suppor...
45
@Memphrie et Moi
.
A commitment to human rights is in fact a commitment to economics.
.
In case you haven't noticed, protection of civil rights is the most effective way for a society to protect its liberty, its security, and its prosperity.
.
That's why the richest countries on earth are all democracies.
4
@Richard Blaine
Thank you Richard.
I grew up in conservative Quebec where they were still in despair over the French Revolution.
Today was Thanksgiving. I am grateful to be in Quebec which is the most liberal place in North America but is still roiling because of the nationalism which grows out of false history.
We are democratic, we are secure, we are so incredibly rich but we still insist on the tribalism that shackles us to ignorance.
I give thanks today because our grandchildren live in a much bigger world.
Mr. Friedman, with all due respect, maybe it's time for you to retire.
You have supported Prince Mohamed since the beginning. You are supposed to be the expert of that region. How come you get it wrong all the time, from the Iraq war to the new Saudi mess.
I've never been to Saudi Arabia or the Middle East, yet I predicted correctly most of the events that have happened there. ( I wish I could send you some of my nytimes comments on this matter)
223
@Chaks Even an educated man like Friedman can be made to play the fool. Sad.
2
Since we don't know what happened we can't speculate; but clearly a man who would hold others for ransom (as MBS did) could easily stoop to murdering his political opposition; after all, he rules by divine right and cannot be held accountable to anyone.
24
I dearly regret this tragedy, but Thomas Friedman needs to ask why he was so blinded by what was always completely clear about the nature of the rulers of Saudi Arabia. Friedman needs to not be blinded by powerful people who are trying to flatter while deceiving him.
100
The naivete displayed by the American media and and it's readers in hoping that MBS will in the near future or decades will reform Saudi Arabia is disappointing and they should know better.
The heir apparent has made boastful claims of which include allowing women to drive in SA, funding for Tesla, funding for largest solar plant in SA, New city from scratch (Neom), taking Aramco public on NYSE, and promise after promise, it has not delivered.
Saudi Arabia lost the war in Syria, and are having a very tough time against Yemen, the poorest country in the region and their neighbors. SA's beef with Qatar only hurts it's regional goals.
Wishful thinking does not apply to Saudi Arabia when you are wearing western glasses.
161
Why did the United States government ever choose to legitimize the Saudi family as “royalty,” anyway?
And without meaning to downplay any particular human rights violations, why is it that our country can’t seem to reconcile with Teheran?
Seems like a pretty myopic strategy.
64
@ubique I totally agree. For all its many faults, at least Iran holds elections. Its anti-US zealots were forged from our interference in their country. What is Saudi Arabia's excuse for allowing Wahhabism to flourish and metastasize?
8
@ubique
Hubris.
Reagan sold weapons to Iran and funded his proxy Central American war with the proceeds.
2
@Bill G
I’m sure the House of Saud has a thousand and one excuses for its tacit promotion of violent extremism.
Fidelity is such an important character trait.
Mr Friedman is trying to redress the thrust of his previous Op Eds in which he waxed lyrical about Bin Salman (even repeatedly using the acronym MBS to make him more palatable to us Americans). In this column, Mr Friedman mentioned that the de facto ruler has a "dark side"....what does that mean exactly? Does the man have dissociative identity disorder? Of course not.
This how tyrannical rulers in the Middle East rule...by fear and by applying ruthless punishment on dissenters.
Bin Salman's recent (and well publicized) permission that Saudi women could drive was a fig leaf designed to appeal to our sensibilities by apply a flimsy band-aid to the Wahhabism cancerous growth that spread from Saudi Arabia to the rest of the Middle East...spawning extremism, Muslim Brotherhood, and fundamentalism.
There is a word in the region's language called "heyba"...which essentially means "awe"...the tyrants and autocratic rulers in the Middle East use to instill fear in their populace...by murdering Mr Khashoggi, Bin Salman is showing off his "heyba".
This Administration is backing a regime known not only for its abysmal actions against its own citizens, but for its disgusting military actions in Yemen et al...as well as the (how quick do we forget!) involvement of some of their citizens in our own tragedy of 9.11. 2001.
Bin Salman's downsides have long swamped its minuscule and irrelevant upsides, and it behooves us to recognize this now.
160
@Confucius
This how tyrannical rulers in USA now rule...by fear and by threatening ruthless punishment on dissenters.
What? A wolf in sheep’s caftan?? It’s okay, Trump is a wolf’s best friend. Only probably just a tiny bit jealous. No hope for the weary.
19
For Friedman , there appears to be one overriding consideration as to what makes a government acceptable ; openness to foreign private investment
26
@william chinitz -- That is an odd thing. The Saudis of all people don't need foreign money. They are all money, just oil money by the trillions. Their sovereign wealth fund invests in other countries.
Tom, you need to forget about MBS. OK, you were fooled in the beginning, but it happens; now let it go. He is a dictator, thug and killer. Once he had kidnapped the entire ruling class of Saudi Arabia, beaten them up and held them for self-ransom, it was evident to every newspaper-reader in what's left of the free world what type of person he was. It was also the sign that he is an arrogant fool, not the calculating stuff of which a successful benevolent dictator (that rarest of all political species) might be made. Who makes a bitter enemy of the entire upper class of his country by taking their money, which is no more ill-gotten than his own, and expects to remain in power? The humanitarian disaster in Yemen, the murder of Khashoggi - what are we doing involved with this guy? The fact that he can communicate with Netanyahu, Trump and Kushner is not a sign of his moderation, it is a sign of the corruption of Netanyahu, Trump and Kushner - all three of whom are doing immense damage to the long-term interests of their respective countries - one which happens to be ours also. And one more thing - we can sell them all the aircraft and bombs that we want. In a land conflict, should there be such a disaster, Iran will rout them, and we will have to bail them out with American forces.
320
@XXX Bang on. And your last sentence captures my fear, that if this thug starts to sink, he will attack Iran just to get the USA to support him. Let's hope there is a less stupid Prez when that happens.
5
@XXX
MBS is no Benjamin Netanyahu.
Saudi Arabia is no Israel.
Yemen is no Gaza nor West Bank nor East Jerusalem nor Golan Heights.
@XXXWhy will we have to bail them out?
Mr. Friedman, will you now renounce your earlier embrace of this thug?
Some of us pointed out earlier that MBS is a thug when you fawned over him previously in an earlier piece of yours
A thug is as a thug does!
121
@Ijebu
For christ sake, he did not "embrace" him.
The problem with the right is inflating, conflating and inflammatory language.
1
The more dangerous possibility is that local Saudis on the ground and associated with their Istanbul consulate were operating off the reservation in abducting or killing Khashoggi. This suspected act so lacks nuance (heck, it’s even got Turkey squawking!) that it’s almost Russian in its crudeness, and that’s not reminiscent of Saudi punitive actions of the past. It may be that the world caved on China and the South China Sea, a matter involving a territorial dispute in China’s backyard; but Russia’s similar antics of late globally have brought on their heads dramatic responses, including serious sanctions. That either suggests that MBS isn’t just listing to the “dark side”, but that he’s cracking up; or that he didn’t order this action and grundoons perpetrated it anyway. If that happened, then their internal chain of command could be fraying.
6
@John Harper
As far as I know, Gore Vidal never wrote a detective story.
@Richard Luettgen, "If that happened, then their internal chain of command could be fraying.' Quite possibly, they are following the trump model.
3
@Richard Luettgen
A rare and unusual pleasure: Today, I agree with you!
1
Two months before he went missing Jamal Khashoggi took to his Washington Post column to slam his country’s rulers over their diplomatic spat with Canada.
“Instead of lashing out at Canada, shouldn’t we ask why peace-loving Canada has turned against us?” Khashoggi wrote in an article titled, “Saudi Arabia cannot afford to pick with fights with Canada.” https://wapo.st/2E74rGI
“We, Saudi citizens, need to see the bigger picture. Canada raised the flag against human rights abuses in Saudi Arabia. Surely, we cannot arbitrarily arrest female activists and expect the world to turn a blind eye.”
His latest column was scheduled to be go up on Thursday, but it was never published after he went missing.
46
@JH Mintz
Even though Canada raised the flag against human rights abuses, Canada still managed to sell loads of armaments to Saudi Arabia.
2
@Majortrout Yes and many Canadians, the media and opposition parties plus many Canadian opinion makers harshly criticized Canada for selling arms to the Saudi's . Although the actual sale took place and was approved by the Conservative government , it was not a good move by the Liberals who should have cancelled the sale.
@Majortrout
We are a trading nation and as good only as our word. The first act of the Trudeau government was to make things like the arms deal with the Saudis illegal but we respected the deal our conservative government made when they had the power. We are not America we are Canada and our word is our bond. We really don't want America's values.
1
" it will be a disaster for the regime of Mohammed bin Salman."
No it won't. These countries don't care what the world thinks of them. Look at what happened in Turkey with the mutiny there? Thousands of people are in jail, and we hardly hear anything. Russia, killing Russians in foreign countries - unstoppable with diplomatic immunity. North Korea - people have starved to death there - nobody cares.
What the US cares about is Saudi oil period!
105
@Majortrout. I think you are mistaken. At this time, the US cares that SA is an enemy of Iran.
2
@Majortrout
Plus the Saudis buy our arms to oppress the Kurds and to make war against Iran and Shia Muslim Arabs in cahoots with Israel.
@Majortrout You are right, save for the last sentence. The U.S. cares much more about selling arms to the Saudis then oil. Our exports of oil from S.A. are about at 1987 levels at the moment. But arms - arms means factories. They mean that all the war companies make big profits. They are a freebie for the president. This is one thing that isn't on the GOP. President Clinton became the arms sale president - during his time in office, the U.S. went from being a middling arms dealer to the top one in the world. And Hilary Clinton followed suit under Obama. Trump is of course following along that path too. The problem we have with the Saudis is manifold - for instance, Saudi money is mixed up everywhere in the financial sector, and is invested strategically in the media. But the problem of arms sales is solidly about the U.S. It is a disgrace.
Mr. Friedman,
Your propaganda on behalf of MBS and the Saudis was absurd when you wrote the original piece, and this mealy-mouthed half-denunciation is worse, in my opinion. Neither piece should have been published in the paper of record (even on the Op-Ed page),
Also, the alleged abduction and killing of Jamal Khashoggi is a tragedy and a crime but it is not *worse* than the indiscriminate murder of thousands of desperately poor Yemenis. Your unwillingness to condemn that obvious moral outrage is absurd, and it makes it impossible to take anything else in this piece seriously.
360
@Andrew
And right wing regressives care SO MUCH about....... Yemen? Save your breath.
1
The view that the murder of this journalist by the Saudis will somehow poison the relationship between America and the Saudis is simply not ternable. Trump and his administration have labelled journalists the “enemy of the people” and has literally incited physical violence against dissenters. Trump worships two things; himself and money. The Saudis provide him with both the adulation he craves and access to the money I suspect he needs to keep his rotten empire afloat now that the Russian oligarchs he relied on are under increasing scrutiny.
When Trump speaks of the love that now exists (albeit tongue in cheek, I suspect) between himself and Kim Jong Un, a murderous tyrant, his respect for Rodrigo Duterte, another murderous bully, and his special relationship with Ji, the Chinese demagogue who locks up and kills political opponents, I strongly doubt that this murder will cause even a ripple in the present American foreign policy.
107
Tyranny and wickedness in high places seem to be flourishing in our unfortunate day. From Saudi cruelty to Chinese disappearing of actors and its own high-ranking officials in addition to the usual dissidents imprisoned or killed, to European hate groups and neo-nazis rising to power, to Russian poisonings (both literal and otherwise) in the world, it's a grim day for mercy or truth. But I don't know of any of those powers that currently puts toddlers in cages in empty cavernous buildings or tents in deserts but our own land, our former land, seeming more every day like the dark kingdom of Sauron. Add the natural disasters and heavings of the earth, and it's getting uncomfortably apocalyptic for our dear and vulnerable world.
42
A dark side?
I fail to see the light side in either Saudi Arabia or its sister tyranny in Egypt.
The United States is deep into a cave of ugliness from which there will be no easy escape.
84
Although this is not the main point of the article, I find myself taking issue with something Mr. Friedman says: “The U.S. can’t just subcontract order-making in the Middle East to Israel, Russia and Saudi Arabia and write them blank checks. Their leaders actually need us to draw redlines for them, too, so they can tell their own hotheads and extremists, ‘Hey, I am with you — but the Americans won’t let me do that.’”
It's the last sentence I have a problem with. Our policy has always been to allow the Middle East leaders to side with "hotheads and extremists" while at the same time, talking out of the other side of their mouths, ask us to intervene or do something that they cannot themselves to for political reasons. Perhaps it's time for the leaders to be honest with their people and let the chips fall where they may. Otherwise, we keep perpetuating this hatred and resentment of the West -- they can blame us for everything instead of holding their own leaders accountable.
21
I do not despise Trump like a lot of people here and think he's actually done some good things, but if he doesn't push Saudi Arabia on this I will be truly angry, because I believe the crown prince has become completely emboldened by his relationship to this administration. This is truly despicable and horrifying.
6
@Cari408 - If you think Trump will condemn MBS for this, you haven't been paying attention.
2
If the Saudis can starve Yemen, into the largest humanitarian disaster in the world. Where millions are on the verge of starvation by their blocking ports and bombing schools, hospitals and other infrastructure. If our media is mostly silent about this considering how horrific this is, then certainly chopping up a journalist that dared to speak out, is not a big deal. The Saudis will just have to spend a bit more money to keep the appropriate organizations quiet and they will move on with their spread of Wahhabism. Of course with the help of our military.
Why has this author and paper been mostly silent about Yemen and the Saudis support of al Qaeda around the world, which continues? Why are the Saudis our ally?
233
@steve Not only this paper but also the majority of the European liberal press.
2
"... the Saudi-UAE war in Yemen has been so badly botched that the Saudis have been accused of possible war crimes, even though Iran and the Houthi rebels had also contributed mightily ...."
.
"possible war crimes"?
"Possible"?
Who are you kidding?
That ship sailed a long time ago.
.
"... even though Iran and the Houthi rebels had also contributed mightily..."?
.
Hold on a minute.
.
The Houthi rebels are Yemenis.
They have a right to be there.
.
Their unforgiveable mistake was to think that the people of Yemen should be able to choose their own government - rather than have that choice dictated by Saudi Arabia.
.
Iran's involvement came much later, and is miniscule compared to Saudi involvement - or, indeed, compared to western military support of Saudi Arabia.
.
There is a war crime going on in Yemen.
The war crime in Yemen is enormous.
It includes use of Cholera and mass starvation as deliberate weapons of war.
.
The war crime in Yemen was 100% created by Saudi Arabia.
Pretending otherwise is a lie.
.
Western nations that provide military and logistical support to that war crime are now complicit in that war crime.
.
Saudi Arabia is a rogue nation that exports terrorism.
.
Get your facts straight.
416
@Richard Blaine
"... the Saudi-UAE war in Yemen has been so badly botched that the Saudis have been accused of possible war crimes, even though Iran and the Houthi rebels had also contributed mightily ...."
Good grief, Mr. Friedman, please learn. Enough of being blinded by falseness from the Saudi government. Saudi Arabia has been committing war crimes in Yemen and the problem is not the Houthi who are part of Yemen or the Iranians who are only protecting against the criminal onslaught in Yemen by Saudi Arabia.
Learn, Mr. Friedman.
15
@Richard Blaine
I come to the NY Times to read comments like this .
Your analysis on the situation in Yemen is spot on to anybody with half a brain and makes me wonder why/how Friedman can so twist/massage facts and still have a position at 'the Newspaper of Record.
Chomsky's 'Manufacturing Consent' is a good starting point.
16
@Richard Blaine
Couldn't be said better!
Thomas Friedman has to start from scratch to build up his lost credibility. This column compounds his credibility problem even more.
Jamal is gone. Recall how Saad al-Hariri narrowly escaped the same fate by his obviously extorted mock "resignation", soon retracted after being extracted for the hostage he was by the French. Surely the weekly public beheadings were not enough? The Yemen catastrophe not enough? No need to mention 9/11. This unholy alliance between the US and Saudi Arabia, sanctified by oil, must end lest we lose our soul over a few barrels of oil.
291
@Neocynic
Money is our true soul, and oil will always win. I don't have any doubt about it
3
@Neocynic ...and I'll bet his remains got out of the Saudi Embassy in various suitcases, à la Hitchcock's "Rear Window" (1954).
3
We all are praying for Jamal Khashoggi, just remember that you were the one who went to bat for MBS knowing full well that the leopard cannot change its spots. This is how the Saudi clan operates and has done for centuries.
It is time our Government and other Arm suppliers to this barbaric regime come to terms and cut all ties with them as we are also accomplices in the genocidal war in Yemen also.
537
@Wizarat
The Saudi clan goes back to the period between the first and second world wars, not "centuries." But in fact the war in Yemen is genocidal and the US should stop supporting it. The people of Yemen should settle their own affairs; US and European meddling in the Middle East consistently turns bad to worse or worst.
25
@Wizarat
We are not going to cut ties with Saudi Arabia. Trump loves him, loves doing business with him and does not care about the torture and murder of a journalist inside a consulate, much less about the mass murder of Yemeni civilians with American weapons.
By the way, if by some miracle we did cut off arms shipments to Saudi Arabia, Russia and China would be delighted to pick up the business.
Dan Kravitz
2
@Wizarat-Also worth pointing out that the Saudis and U.A.E. sent money via back channel(s) to the Trump campaign and later to try to influence the presidency. They've also manipulated Trump to side with them in a blockade of Qatar. Check out pedophile George Nader, Trump crony Tom Barrick, and Eric Prince; corruption meisters peddling influence and government for sale.
3
Thank you Mr. Friedman. I have been waiting for this column for days. Unfortunately, rather than admitting that your previous over the top columns that fawned over MBS possibly contributed to this crime, you selectively reconstruct your position.
134
@No Obviously, Friedman can be bought so cheaply. A couple meals, a late night private meeting. What a dupe.
10
"What Western leader, and how many Western investors, will want to stand alongside M.B.S. if it is proved that his government abducted or murdered Jamal? (And the truth will come out.)"
Donald Trump, for one.
188
@APS Yes, he needs the Saudis to release more oil into the market so the prices don't go too high and upset his voters.
9
@APS
Benjamin Netanyahu, for two.
Vladimir Putin, for three.
3
Saudi behavior is atrocious. Most unfortunately, with help from Trump's U.S.A., that considers Saudi Arabia a close ally. I guess tyrants support each other, to the disgrace of it's people's standing in the world.
48