Democrats to KY
we told you so
Now find the loan shark for tuition since Trump Took away your loan and protection
7
The two previous administrations told Americans that they are lazy, saying that illegal aliens do the jobs that Americans won't do. Rather than be outraged by that lie, American businesses embraced it as a way to lower salaries below the poverty level, cheerfully repeating that they cannot get Americans to do hard work. Of course, they did not mention that they were paying one-fourth of what the going rate used to be for manual labor, thanks to millions of illegal aliens being paid off the books.
The solution, politicians say, is to teach American laborers to code -- to write software. Meanwhile, Silicon complains that the nearly one million foreign workers in our country on the H-1B visa aren't enough because: Americans are too stupid to write software.
Of course, they did not mention that they were paying each H-1B visa holder one-third of what the going rate used to be for technology work, and only hiring Americans at that same rate or lower. They also don’t mention that they usually require the better and more-qualified American programmers to train their foreign replacements. A few higher-paid American programmers are ultimately brought in, but just long enough to clean up the messes created by the H-1B code clowns.
To revitalize, our nation needs metallurgists, electricians, plumbers, chemical engineers, logistics experts, and lots and lots of heavy equipment operators, a skill that should be easy to pick up by those working with coal all their lives.
8
Dr. Hothschild. I wish that you would have contacted sources in Kentucky outside of Interapt or their cherrypicked poster employees. Had you contacted the mayor, economic development office, community college or the local newspaper, you would have discovered that very few were satisfied by the number of jobs created versus the dollars spent. How do I know? Because I did this due diligence when Interapt wanted to open a satellite in Buffalo WY. Sadly, Interapt’s promises far exceed their actual results. If you doubt me, make the call. Our community spent $100k for Interapt to do a feasibility study that was never fully released to the public who paid for it. Call me at the Buffalo Bulletin if you have questions.
7
What struck me is the ethnicity of the man who founded the program, which probably makes him a fairly recent immigrant. He sounds like the kind of smart, hard-working entrepreneurial immigrant that is precisely what makes America enjoy such a dynamic economy. In fact, I can’t imagine America’s IT sector succeeding as well as it has without immigrants.
Yet Trump and his Republican supporters are doing all that they can to stop this very kind of legal immigration, and worse, have whipped up hatred and fear about anyone who doesn’t look or talk or worship like them. While I wish these kids in Interapt great success in life, I also hope they appreciate that Republican policies are doing great harm— whether its access to good jobs, to innovation, to health care, to affordable education, or to clean water and air. I hope they vote the bums out this November and every election.
8
The one thing we don't need is more coders.
Simply peruse the sources of the STD and boost libraries. Chaos incarnate.
Google "compare python 2.x and 3.x". Chaos incarnate.
The more coders, the more chaos.
Useless feature creep, etc. How many hash algorithms do we need? How many memory management algorithms do we need? ... They all leak, ...
I retired one year ago, thank god.
3
This is a story with two sides, but only one is discussed: the laudable, feel-good economic side.
But there’s another vantage here concerning the changing nature of education in America. This article doesn’t pose the most fundamental question: what is the purpose of education? If your answer is: to get a job, read no further.
But, if you recognize that in a democracy a person has two jobs – one that provides an income to live on, and one as an informed participant in the democratic process – then programs like Interapt provide only half an education.
Interapt sounds like the traditional technical school. But at least in those programs there are typically state mandated courses in critical thinking areas like basic communication such as writing.
The current trend in education, even on the 4 year level, is vocational training. So while Interapt may get you a work-from-home job developing cell phone apps, you haven’t learned anything about the world’s complexity, nothing beyond the narrow confines of, say, Hueysville, KY where you are still suspicious of outsiders and fear big government - even though it was government research that first developed the very technology you work in.
And critical thinking skills are able to discern the huge irony of government providing student loans and “funding for the Appalachian Regional Commission” which help Interapt students - and Kentuckians voting for the president who is undermining both. Now that requires a real education.
8
Great to see new opportunities for those living in areas where industries are dead or dying.
Great story. One question though: who is going to sell cigarettes at the local store or work reception at the motel ? Someone has to or they can’t operate
Problem is there are low skilled jobs that need working but the pay is too low to survive on. This means that the rest of us are forced to subsidize these workers through SNAP and Medicaid etc..
Btw looks like CEO of Wyndham who owns Super 8 took home a cool $ 15 mil last year....
7
Congratulations to Matthew Watson!
Thank you to the software firm who hired you.
More, please. Share the jobs into rural America, every single state has rural areas hurting badly for decently paying jobs.
2
What a wonderful story. I grew up in Eastern Kentucky -- not quite in the mountains, but culturally the same as the towns in this story. I've been in New York for decades, and have a fancy education and somewhat fancy job. But I still have family back home and I visit two or three times a year. In my lifetime (I'm 62) I've seen so many communities, including my own (pop. 1200) hollowed out; this has led to the opioid crisis, which is every bit as bad as you have read. But as the piece describes, people there are absolutely willing to work.
2
I am from that area. I went away to school and returned. The economics and social issues were just not conducive to me staying there, so I had to move away again.
Thank you for reporting something positive about my home. Believe me, the people there are very intelligent. I know of at least five people from my very small community that now have PhDs or other advanced degrees. Yes, they all had to live in other parts of the country. Brain drain.
It's all about opportunity!
Some of us may be uneducated, but very few are unable to learn.
6
What an inspiring story -- successful bipartisan efforts to match American workers with American jobs. Getting tech companies to venture outside their Silicon Valley enclaves and "spread the wealth" is a great idea :)
5
I'm sorry to break the bad news to Mr. Watson, but the software industry isn't what this article says it is. The sad truth is that industry promotes the training of far more programmers than they can accept. What you find is that new and recent grads will be offered jobs. But once you've got five or six years under your belt you become unemployable. This produces the illusion of a healthy profession where, in truth, it's a dead end job market (for most). Unemployability is not because of outdated job skills; it's because there's another mouth to feed coming into the profession.
It's an old story that I first became aware of with Control Data Corporation and other mainframe computer makers in the Minneapolis area about 1980. Those companies were entirely dependent upon U.S. Government contracts. This meant that the award of new contracts depended on their conformance to social engineering programs. Essentially, employment had come under the direct control of gate-keepers outside these companies, where people with 'special needs' went to the front of the line. But the definition of what 'special needs' meant was always defined by the shadowy set of gate keepers (who didn't know diddly-squat about the technology). The mainframe computer industry finally went under about ten years later. That's what happens when you put non-technical people in charge of high technology companies.
2
This is so great. Inspiring story. Thank you. I need it this.
This is a nice story but remember that 800 applied and 50 demonstrated enough aptitude to be accepted for training. I'm happy for the 50, but there are tens of thousands who are unemployed or underemployed and relatively few will become coders.
4
@Sam. Tech jobs have a multiplier effect in the local community, maybe 3 to 1.
5
Exactly! Those 50 are now skilled and well paid, and spend their money in the community, which then creates more jobs for people with other skills. A rising tide lifts all boats.
3
Donald Trump and the support that he has garnered from these poor regions of the US has made their resident's life much harder. Specifically, as someone who has been in the electronics and software field for 20 years in Silicon Valley I would much rather work with an Indian or Chinese national half a world away than someone from Kentucky.
As far as I am concerned, I have more values and work ethic in common with these foreign nationals then people from Kentucky, Alabama, South Carolina, etc.
2
This appears to be a news story about a program and people that has quite the history of failure... do a search for the companies and people noted in this version, which sounds like a press release, and there is a history of failure and still more taxpayer funding to expand the failure...
Example: https://www.dailysignal.com/2017/07/21/exclusive-2-million-government-pr...
Other stories available for the search effort.
3
This is just excellent news! "Insourcing" Silicon Valley jobs to heartland America is precisely the kind of jobs strategy America needs. It promises to rekindle at least some the promises of the social contract for ALL Americans, that has heretofore been so completely broken by the greed of industry driven only by Wall Street profit margins.
2
Hip, hip hurray! We won!
More importantly, the world has won. It is humblingly gratifying to see things I talked about coming to fruition. And my place in this?
Can I do more? Can I help more?
What can I do today that will help the lives of others?
Maybe I can't escape attention anymore. Ok, fine. I will deal with it. If the world needs me, I will respond.
This is the creed of every consequential person in history:
"If the world needs me, I will respond."
We're going to built this country up to its once justifiable place under the Roosevelts, and that is we will be the beacon of hope for the world! It starts in our back yard!
It takes opposing politicians to work across the aisle to bring these ideas to the forefront and make them work. It also takes trust from the local citizens to make this work. I loved this article, so uplifting and hope it continues to grow.
1
Bravo, Dr. Hochschild! Thank you for reporting on these important and uplifting programs. These are just the type of solutions needed to solve complex problems. We have been wondering and musing about such solutions here on the West Coast. Bravo to the solution-oriented lawmakers and business people who are creating both opportunities for our fellow Americans in the heartland and win-wins across the board!
4
Oh, the irony of a man who so many GOP voters would look upon as “not a real American” being the driving force behind this amazing company bringing long-overdue opportunity to this stricken region! I wish everybody involved nothing but success and prosperity, but I also hope they have the self-awareness to ask themselves where this kind of retraining program has been all their lives, who is supporting it with dollars and legislation, and who benefits from keeping them barefoot and undereducated instead of cared for and prepared for the 21st century economy.
7
Interesting article. But Glasgow, KY photo of students seems out of place. Glasgow is many miles from Eastern Kentucky. It is a prosperous community in Middle Kentucky.
3
I am a software developer for over 30 years.
I have always said that there is something terribly wrong that we bring in people from India and China on H-1B visas when so many Americans need work.
But this story also highlights another part of America.
When it was urban Blacks and crack, it was three strikes your out. Now that it is rural whites and opioids, it is a medical problem.
And this is a great program for all those rural whites who have been losing their manufacturing jobs.
But why haven't we done this 20 years ago for poor urban black neighborhoods?
25
@Independent Every year, T.J. Rodgers would go before Congress to argue for more H1b visas. He did this precisely because the South and East Asian engineers he thus brought in became wage slaves at Cypress Semiconductor, working for one half to one third the wages of equivalently educated and experienced American engineers. If an H1b employee quit, their job status would be immediately reported to immigration, making them subject to deportation.
4
My old firm sent me to Louisville, KY, for training for a week when I first joined them. I worked in Finance, but had close interaction with actuaries, quantitative analysts and developers, who were located in Louisville.
Before being offered the job at my old firm, I went through a couple of rounds of interviews. The person who would later oversee my work was located in Louisville. I really enjoyed my interview - the questions on probability and statistics were placed carefully with ample space in between, for financial concepts.
Senior folks in my firm took great care and effort in teaching me some of the concepts that were essential in understanding insurance linked products. Their mentoring has helped me tremendously.
I had a great time there, and have made lifelong friends. One of my friends from Louisville jokingly suggested that I take on horse riding as I did not weigh much (he laughingly cited Calvin Borel who won the 2007, 2009 and 2010 Kentucky Derby). It piqued my interest in horse riding (I recently went on a horse riding trail in Denver).
Few months ago, I received a note from a colleague in Louisville from my old firm. He was offered a job and wanted to discuss prospects and opportunities related to the job. He is one of the most creative coders that I have interacted with in the financial industry. It was great to have received the note, from friends back in Kentucky.
Fun fact: Both Abraham Lincoln and Jefferson Davis were born in Kentucky.
8
@Arnab Sarkar
I am a software developer for 30 years and an equestrian for 20 years.
Writing software is probably more interesting than a lot of jobs and it pays the bills.
But, for me, horses and riding are magical.
Though I never lived in Kentucky.
4
I loved this article!! It is inspiring to learn of opportunities such as this one. I agree with the reader who suggested that Apple I-phones be made here in this country. It would be another profitable fix for those not making an adequate living. So many people want to come here and work but, honestly, there doesn't seem to be enough positions for everyone. America is great but we can make it greater through opportunities such as this. Thanks for presenting this great article.
8
This is our future as a country, as it well should be.
5
The more work we can keep in the United States the better our lives will be. There's no reason not to offer retraining to people no matter how long they've been employed or unemployed as long as they want to work.
45
Did you not hear President Trump and the ad on TV blurt out the immigrants take jobs and are killing and separating families.. you must be part of fake news
But NYT you do your documentation right and that serial liar duped usa .. USA we were duped -- immigrants are citizens too.
3
I don't care who Kentuckians supported in the 2016 election.
I want to see them succeed.
92
@Middleman MDAs as someone from los angeles, thank you for this comment. I feel the same way about anyone who’s willing to work hard. I hope we all succeed from coast to coast.
7
This is great, but is not going to work. Why not? Because there is an effectively infinite supply of low-cost foreign visa workers. There is a limit on the number of H-1Bs, but today the H-1B is a minority of work visas. There are OPT (recent foreign college grads, get tax break), TN-1 (Canadian and Mexican but firms bring Indians in through Canada), B-1 (illegal but very common), J-1, L-1, L-1A, and others. These crowd out all US workers.
End the H-1B, OPT, B-1, L-1, J-1, and TN-1. Stop them for 10 years, and re-assess.
24
This story is uplifting! Good people with a work ethic are trained and employed in a high tech skill while staying within their communities that have otherwise been gripped in poverty.
49
Why not build iPhones there too?
39
I am glad to read this. I just want to tell these KY folks to always be learning new languages and updating their skills. They need to be ready for the next step in their careers before they become obsolete.
32
The coders featured in a this article learned coding in their twenties. The coder mom in the story has been wise enough to teach her kids while theirs brains can best learn a language. Is the state of Kentucky smart enough to capitalize on this and add coding to elementary school and beyond curricula. Imagine the savings and imagine making Kentucky a forward thinking state, right Mitch?
10
Is the state of KY smart enough? In a word-No. (See Gov. Bevin, Mitch McConnell, Rand Paul).
2
This is a wonderful story. At the same time it adds to my aggravation with the tech industry and billionaires of Silicon Valley North (fka Seattle). Here in Washington State 1/3 of rural high school students don’t graduate. 2 people die each day from opioid abuse. Yet close as these communities are to a tech center hiring loads of programmers and developers via H-1B visas, where are the training programs for these communities & the offspring of our loggers, farmers and fishers? Where is the public and private investment like Kentucky?? Time to step up, WA delegation & all the multimillionaires & billionaires from Amazon, Microsoft, & the rest! Without a state income tax or meaningful corporate taxation, the state can’t do it.
25
No coder in Silicon Valley can work for $40-50K and afford to live there unless it is under a blue tarp behind a strip mall dumpster.
Indian and Chinese coders are getting to be in the $40-50K range so why not look around for cheap labor right here at home instead of in Asia. Good idea.
And bravo, Mr. Watson and Ms. Maynard! Just keep in mind once you hit about age 40 you'll then begin the battle with age discrimination for the rest of your career. Keep expanding your network of business contacts and constantly learn the newest technology if you want to keep working in tech.
20
@The Poet McTeagle. As in all high tech employment, the worker is responsible for continuing to develop their knowledge and skill base to stay competitive. You're right about turning 40. If you're not on the management track by then, or split off an running your own enterprise, you're in for a miserable 20 years as fresh batches of youngsters enter the workforce each year, better educated in the latest technologies and far more able to work the 80 hours a week that is the requisite norm in much of the industry.
3
I remember I was looking for a job over 10 years ago. Checking a major software company website. Positions in US matching my qualifications: 0. Positions in India: 10.
I heard about whole departments being moved to Russia, etc.
What I mean, this program is an outstanding job. But there needs more to be done. I am in favor of anti-outsourcing measures that Bernie Sanders was proposing.
Rich Silicon Valley companies should sponsor this kind of training instead of complaining they need H1Bs to survive.
Outsourcing is a suicide. The breaches are already getting worse almost every year. What will stay here?
14
At the turn of the millennium the "change agents" were saying that the public library as a "place" was dead. Those of us who work in one knew otherwise. Lifelong learning thrives there.
11
@lee4713 AMEN!!!
3
@Maria Mena Love my public library.
The most important quality of any applicant is attitude.
The rest can be taught.
Mr. Gopal has the foresight to skim cream.
It is sorry to have to suggest he have an Anglo companion so that he doesn't end up like Srinivas Kuchibhotla, and Alok Madasani in Kansas City.
Instead of opening the Boundary Waters Canoe Area to copper mining, northern Minnesota would be another great place for tech training like this.
11
Trump is basically history at this point.
Businesses should not plan around his twiddly tweets.
5
Loved this article, congratulate all the tech people who are bringing training to Kentucky hill country to improve lives. — a former Kentuckian
12
No mention here of Berea College, which has a history of training people from eastern KY to work in other fields.
10
Carpal Tunnel vs Black Lung, there's no question which to risk. Send the GOP to the coal mines, let the working people grow and prosper.
9
Interesting comments that Ankur Gopal is the son of immigrants. My grandparents and great grandparents were immigrants, as were my wife's family (in the 1600s). So, as immigrants, let's all stick together and work to benefit everyone, including native Americans.
17
Whether this is a true movement that sustains, and spreads hope and prosperity in parts of America, I do not know. But as an educator I know that everyone can learn, period. Also, just about everyone can learn to code if motivated. And if this story is limited to this microcosm only, without other nation-wide analogs, I am still heartened and happy to read about it. You go Matthew Watson! God bless.
7
If anyone reading this article paused on the paragraph that said, "Trump, is proposing cuts to EDUCATION, that would raise the cost of student loans by 200 BILLION. (Lets see, who stand to benefit the most from that move. Does the name DeVos mean anything to anyone).
This is the tactic that the republicans have been using for decades, in effect, keeping their voters, uneducated, is to their benefit, that way, those people are easier to convince that it's the democrats that are at the root of their problems.
But this proves that with access to a meaningful education much earlier in life, those people that live in poor red states, wouldn't have to depend on people like Trump that make empty promises, about bringing back coal and industry. The employment landscape is changing, and people need to be able to change with the times, not stuck in a rut, hoping a politician will be able to provide what they promise.
But Trump is an old man, that doesn't see where the future is, he is clueless when it comes to technology, (it doesn't take a mental giant to send a tweet). One other thing that caught my eye, was the following statement
"As Ervin Dimeny, former commissioner of the Kentucky Labor Cabinet’s Department of Workplace Standards, explained to me: “We think of apprenticeship as a way to certify 19th-century metalworkers. You can see, that republicans aren't visionary, they don't even understand the importance of an apprenticeship, Trump would he had a reality show....
7
@James Young That comment about apprenticeships really shouted out to me too! What a narrow mined point of view. Apprenticeships are a fabulous way to learn, usually a win for both the teacher and the student. Many people have a hard time applying "book learning" to practice. Apprenticeships can give you both. You also get someone to give you some of the tips and advice that worked for you in their career. It is the beginning of a network- crucial to a person's career.
7
The correct term is software developer, not coder. And I cannot imagine they are teaching anything other than basic web frontend skills in that short amount of time. Which is why Mr. Watson is only making 50K.
The reason there is such a shortage of software developers is because designing and building today's software systems is HARD. Developers need to understand data structures, multithreaded systems, performance analysis, testing strategies, and increasingly, working with largescale data. You can't teach that in 24 weeks. My fear is that when whatever basic technology these people have learned is discarded by the software companies, they will be discarded too. Just as the old school COBOL programmers were all discarded in the 90's.
15
You may be right,but any movement in the right direction offers an exit from a hopeless situation. Hopefully some of the people now working will see the future and prepare for it.
15
Don't you think that the people profiled in this piece would be able to expand on the skills they were taught in their apprenticeship and keep up with the industry?
($50K can go pretty far in eastern Kentucky.)
10
@Clio The big issue is that they don't learn the fundamentals in those coding bootcamps, and in particular, they don't have the mathematical background. In many ways, this program makes no sense. Berea College, which has free tuition, has a fine computer science program. These people would be far better served by going there. Or if a 4 year program is too much, Southeast Community and Technical College, in Cumberland, has a 2 year IT program. Getting the degree would put these people in a much better position. By the way, I am from KY, and am very familiar with the area they are talking about.
2
beautiful story and also beautiful photography by Mike Belleme!
7
My only comment as a fellow software developer - assuming Mr. Watson now has two years' experience with relevant technologies, as a mobile developer he can and should be making far more than $50,000, even living in Kentucky.
Many companies are willing to pay remote workers the same salary as their office-based counterparts located in far more expensive locales, especially mobile developers, who are seriously hard to find.
$50,000 is nothing to spit at, of course, especially in such an impoverished area. But Mr. Watson is coming at a massive bargain to his current employer. Now is the time for tech workers to take advantage of the relative power they have in the workplace.
17
....and to keep learning so that they will not be disposed of
5
Glad to see some degree of prosperity restored to the blighted coal fields, disappointed that the work is in the form of becoming cogs in the Sillycon Valley tech menace. Manful, tradition-respecting professions like coal mining and farming give way to pencil-necked soy-fed tech workers and their anti-culture.
2
@T. Warren What type of job would you recommend be brought to the "blighted coal fields"? Don't the former coal miners deserve some modern jobs? Almost every field today involves computer skills. Why shouldn't these jobs be available to former coal mining areas? Even BigAg uses computer controlled tractors and harvesting machines.
You can't turn back the clock. (as you sit at a computer to type about your disappointment)
9
@T. Warren
What do you do for work, stand on a corner with an empty cup.........You seem pretty up on farming, there are lots of vacancies on farms these days.
5
What a backwards looking attitude. Manliness has nothing to do with a blue collar job.
8
This sort of training is a wonderful way to help people get into the job market, stay in it, enter the middle class (if that's still a realistic proposition in today's economy), and gain some self respect because they can support themselves and their families. But all too often this sort of training isn't offered to people who can benefit from it most.
I say that because when I was unemployed 20 years back the NYS Department of Labor kept it a secret and made it very hard to get the training I got. Now it's even harder. Unemployed people or people who are making minimum wage are in no position to spend a ton of money on training. Yet, if they receive training they can use to get a job they will more than repay the cost of the training in terms of being able to pay their taxes, support themselves and their families, save for the future, etc.
Our political leaders at the local, state, and federal levels are foolish when they cut useful programs to save money. People will need to be able to receive ongoing education rather than stop after high school or college. We can't keep on expecting people to start over and over again at the lowest salaries and to pay for their own training if we want them to be independent.
It seems to this reader that investing in citizens ongoing education for work in good jobs has returns far beyond just the taxes it brings in once they have a job.
11
@hen3ry
Even if the taxpayer supported training, the long term benefits in terms of return on the social investment, is enormous. In fact, that is what politicians were saying in the middle late 1990s. We need to educate our children for the jobs of the 21st century. As they incentivized through corporate tax breaks, companies MOVING out of the US.
Tech companies are importing coders from India through Infosys, the largest H-1B visa provider in the country, but they are an Indian company. That, we need to change, if any form of immigration that hurts working Americans the worst, it's the corporate abuse of the H-1B visa program. Because those are high paying jobs that they are giving to people from India where anything above $20 rupees a week is a step up.
7
@James Young I would like to correct your perception that I have also seen elsewhere. Yes 20$ a week might be an acceptable but not good option for a labourer in an Indian village, it is certainly nowhere close to what an engineer makes in India. An Indian engineer from a top college, would make about 25000$ an year, after about 3 years of experience, on an average. The higher end offers reach 6 figures USD, though only a handful will make that money. Still lower than an American salary, but misperceptions such as these makes Americans unable to deal with international trends. There are two kinds of tech people who come to the US. The top end, who may also do MS and Phds in the US and join the workforce. They are certainly not paid any less than a standard salary. And those on short term contracts who have varying abilities. Some top notch, some barely able. To think that 20 something coal miners can be trained to become top end developers is a fantasy. I would say America needs to open their eyes and ask the hard questions, if their ego permits. Why are there so many good engineers in a third world country? What are they doing? If you look closely you will find that the top engineers are often from small towns and poor families, many have studied in government schools and government subsidized colleges. Answer: A common curriculum, common text books, and standardized tests. Culturally there is a desire to learn. Sadly the US education system is exclusionary.
5
The idea that all the smart, tech-savvy young people in the country need to jam into the San Francisco Bay Area if they want to get ahead in their careers has gotten ridiculous. Jobs that can be done anywhere (including at home) should be done across the country, in big cities, suburbs, small towns and rural areas alike. You can network with your work colleagues without being physically present.
12
@Rita Rousseau
All it takes is access to the internet, and red states have the lowest access per person per-capita. Because they can't afford the exorbitant prices ISP charge for something the taxpayer has already paid for. That's right, the tax payer paid for the development of the internet as a means of command and control. Like GPS, it was developed by the military then became public.
8
@Rita Rousseau I think the main reason there are so many people and businesses are located in Silicon Valley is that a large talent pool and a large pool of businesses in one place feeds itself. Workers can easily bounce to another company and not have to move. If some big company wants to ramp up a new project with 50 developers they can snap their fingers and have people with the right incentives.
It's kind of like how New York has a whole garment district, but we can't find a sewing machine repair place here in Baltimore. There's just not the critical mass to make it happen.
Fortunately, there are other hot spots for software. The D.C. area has a lot of job openings, especially if you have a government clearance. Boston has a thriving software scene, as does New York, Philadelphia, and Denver. Unfortunately, the thing all these places have in common is that the cost of living is rather high. I think you're right in that we could spread out at least a bit.
1
Thanks for such a hopeful story on our way into the weekend -- we needed this!
7
“Why outsource coding jobs to Bangalore when we can insource jobs to eastern Kentucky, poor in jobs but rich in work ethic, and every one I.T. job brings four or five other jobs with it?” he said.
The reason is because you can get junior developers with a college degree in Bangalore for $5-10 per hour and, I assume, that $5-10 per hour will provide a reasonably decent living there.
You can get experienced, good developers for roughly a third of an American’s salary.
If companies dont want to deal with time zone, cultural or language barriers, they outsource closer to home to places such as Ireland, Mexico, Puerto Rico, even Toronto when its dollar was softer.
I worked with a very experienced, fantastic Mexican Senior DBA, with excellent communication and leadership skills who comfortably lead multiple projects for a demanding client and made about $57K.
I’m not sure how Mr.Gopal can succeed against the financial realities of the global labor market but I hope he does. It is a beautiful thing he is doing.
10
@Julie
When living standards are much more equal across the world, the problem of outsourcing will go away. As long as they are not equal, the global labor market will have to submit to outside forces or the problem will continue.
It is difficult for one country to apply outside forces to a global market, even if the country is very powerful.
4
@sdavidc9
Following your logic, the republicans are doing very well at making america a third world country.
Since India is a very poor country, and is considered an emerging market, unless working class Americans are willing to live and work for $8.00 to $10.00 and hour, corporations will continue to move to labor friendly countries.
Obviously this example can't be a panacea to all our nation's employment ills, but it demonstrates the advantages we all reap when we invest in each other and ourselves.
This story really does have it all -- cooperation between the private and public sectors, between high-tech and rural communities, between the wealthy and the un-and-underemployed, and yes, even between Republicans and Democrats (imagine that in 2018!)... and it shows that everyone comes out ahead when people from all these sectors believe in themselves, their ideas, their futures, and each other's abilities and potential.
Aside from the immediate jump in quality of life for men and women like Mr. Watson and Ms. Maynard, I think of the benefits for their children, watching their parents work on computers, in a technologically relevant industry, creating code for apps they may actually see in use. Maybe, from proximity to something they'd not otherwise witness, the children themselves will develop their own interest in coding. It seems Mr. Gopal's idea may have a multi-generational upside.
17
@D Price
Because those parents are passing that knowledge on to their children.
2
Arlie Hochschild's book "The Second Shift" made me realize the challenges working women face at home. Thank you, for this new work, in a new social context.
7
A fine tale. But talent for writing software is rare even among those employed to do it. Like so many high minded solutions to the world's problems, this is only likely to benefit a few percent of the population and their immediate families.
For the rest, work tends to look more like what is now called "fulfillment". Basically taking things out of boxes and packing them into other things to go in other boxes.
8
@Daedalus: If I lived in eastern Kentucky I wouldn't dismiss the 10,000 IT job openings in the Louisville metro area through 2020. And that circumstance shouldn't be surprising. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, Occupational Outlook Handbook:
"Employment of computer and information technology occupations is projected to grow 13 percent from 2016 to 2026, faster than the average for all occupations. These occupations are projected to add about 557,100 new jobs. Demand for these workers will stem from greater emphasis on cloud computing, the collection and storage of big data, and information security.
The median annual wage for computer and information technology occupations was $84,580 in May 2017, which was higher than the median annual wage for all occupations of $37,690."
And the multiplier effect of technology and science jobs has been shown to be much larger than for manufacturing jobs, so 10,000 new IT jobs in Louisville may lead to 30-40,000 additional jobs in that area.
7
@Daedalus
"But talent for writing software is rare even among those employed to do it."
Huh? All of the software engineers that I know (eight) are highly talented. Instead of "high-minded solutions", I see concrete possibilities of careers for people who live away from the coasts.
7
@Patricia
Talent is spread equally, opportunity isn't. This changes that. It demonstrates, that one sector that drives the local economy can die i.e. coal, but with the right training, you can remake that community, into something much better.
People fall into a rut so easily, they get into their comfort zone because it's easier to go with the factory, or coal flow. You don't challenge yourself when you go to a factory job, and tap the hubcaps on cars as they come to you. People saw their family, dads, uncles, mothers, go to work at GM for 40 years and retire. It didn't take anything more than a high school diploma. But it's a rut, what did you do at work today daddy, well son, I installed windshields all day. Or I cut the rectums from dead pigs all day.
And when those jobs go away, few are prepared for what will follow, low paying jobs, or no jobs because all you can do is install a windshield all day, or all you can do is cut the rectums from dead pigs, no skill set. At least with IT skills, you are empowered, you have transferable skills, that you can use in any city, state. You are in control of your future, not some factory CEO that doesn't give one wit about you. Oh, sure they say they do, but they really don't.
1
I totally approve of this, but I have to ask: Isn't this exactly what Clinton talked about? Training programs to get the coal counties that had been left behind ready for the 21st century? Training that would get them jobs? That's what I remember her saying. I remember she had a entire program.
89
@sjs
Don't let Trump read that. If he sees you threatening the hold of coal on his base, he'll kill the program.
2
@sjs Yes. But Benghazi!
2
This, not coal, is the only viable future for coal country: coding, alternative energy initiatives, green technology. Coal country needs to invest in its human capital in order to take advantage of the new economy which is overtaking it. Instead of longing for mining jobs which are gone, never to fully return, these new programs can give hope to a whole new generation. Kentucky voters should demand that the government support all these efforts to bring high tech and the education that goes with it to their state.
21
They should, but it is doubtful that they will. Kentucky voters elected a governor who wants to do away with ACA, a program that reduced the uninsured rate in Kentucky by 2/3.
14
This is the best path to bi-partisanship--let the 1 percenters invest in the 99 percenters--and don't talk down to them.
I know first hand about getting help from working class folks. Years ago, I was lost in a ritzy suburb of Denver, I knew nobody in the fancy houses would help me. My car had an Obama sticker. I finally got to a neighborhood where a guy was working on his car. Our politics couldn't have been more different--and he couldn't have been nicer and more helpful. He gave me directions, and told me to come back if I got lost again. We shook hands before I left, and I found the address I needed.
14
This is great. But people should realize there’s different levels of coding. A 24 week program can help you with entry level jobs but these candidates will not be full software engineers. They most probably will do light front end dev work. Some light app dev as mentioned here. Which is fine and good work.
I say this in that any comments that they can create new Googles, Apple, or Facebooks is a pretty naive statement. The people at these companies are very talented, top of their class, and experienced (even new college grads spend years coding and hundred hours a week doing so.)
Coding can be very tough, complex mathematical work. It’s not for everyone. It’s great to see these jobs being created, but a new Silicon Valley in the rust belt starts to get a bit ahead of things and let’s not conflate entry level coding with software engineers.
25
FWIW Appalachia isn’t the Rust Belt. Two very different demographics, cultures, geographies, and histories.
These people, largely of British and German heritage, and do this work. They may indeed abuse a few vowels or forms of ''be'' but the work will get done.
Kentucky's had computers in public schools since the early 1990's so they should know their way around a keyboard.
2
@L'osservatore They will indeed get the work done, but they are particularly of Scottish and Irish heritage (as opposed to the more general "British"), and they will let you know that. Good folks, good article.
10
I hope the optimism is warranted, but I'm dubious. Being a retired software engineer doesn't really give me all that much insight into the current IT job market, but I would imagine that current coding jobs still require individuals with the requisite mindset and ability to perform tasks that can be kind of complex. I worked more as an engineer than a coder, but my co-workers tended to be really intelligent and they all had good to excellent technical educations. I've never set foot in Kentucky, but I've read several articles over the years about the relatively poor educational opportunities there - to expect the graduates of sub-par schools to excel it tech jobs might be a stretch. I realize I'm a snob to say this, but most people aren't capable of becoming software developers, (IMHO), and implying that the field is open to anyone that tries hard enough may lead to a lot of disappointment. Stepping off my soapbox now.
17
@asg21
True, but there is a difference between intelligent and educated. If the desire to learn is there, and opportunities provided, surely a person of intelligence can get themselves educated enough to do the job.
3
It seems like years since I’ve read an article - anywhere - that made me feel as hopeful and optimistic as this one about taking actual steps to improve lives and the economy of the heartland. I don’t know if we can code our way out of the economic challenges affecting much of rural America, but hats off to Ankur Gopal and his company Interapt for taking positive steps to make a difference.
42
@dashdown You are so right. This is a model for future projects, whether they are coding or something else. One entrepreneur, one company, one small part of the country at a time. It's not the huge corporations, with their beneficial tax opportunities, who make the difference and we need to stop rewarding the Amazons and instead support the Interapts and education funding.
12
What a great story for Kentucky and another shameful example of how Mitch McConnell has failed his state all these years while he built up his power in the Senate. He has left much of Kentucky in the throes of poverty and sickness as he tries to rollback medical care and support programs. I was born in Kentucky but was taken to NYC as a child and received an excellent education and upbringing. I was lucky. I look forward to the day when a caring able Senator replaces McConnell. His days are numbered.
92
Wow, and who the guy who came up with this idea? Mr Ghopal, a son of immigrants! Who would have thought?
Let's see how quickly Trump can undo this initiative: don't let in any more immigrants with ideas and cut off all funding to education.
83
Most likely legal immigrants
2
Hillbilly Power !
I love it.
9
Ankur Gopal is on to something big. I applaud him for thinking outside of the 'outsourcing box'. It pretty unconscionable that we still continue to allow H1Bs all the while ignoring and writing off our own citizens here at home. The federal and state governments should find all ways to support this including subsidizing these companies. After all, SCOTUS helped in essence subsidize commerce companies like Amazon for decades (e.g. 1992 Quill Corporation v. North Dakota). We subsidize farmers as standard operating procedure. Bottom line, we decide (governments included) what is most important to support and endeavors like this are one of them.
19
My employer can't find devs and hires offshore contractors of varying quality. We NEED these people, and we pay well. Every state should subsidize training for those who commit to it and finish.
40
Critical thinking and its universal application are the keys to success. It's not the specific job skills a person acquires that carry one forward. It's the ability to face a new situation, analyze it, and come up with a solution -- including how to identify the needs of a workplace in our ever-changing world. These new coders will successfully adjust to future change and I applaud all involved in this venture. Well done !
16
This is good news and I'm happy to see how well this is working out for the folks involved--good for you.
9
Thank you for this article
14
Why 8 democrats and only 2 republicans? Didn't Hillary talk specifically about retraining in coal country? Why the assumption that liberals are against jobs for these people? Why are they still for Trump when it's clear which party supports their most basic need?
45
Great idea. How about getting this into Upstate NY. Here in Ulster County we lost IBM over 20 years ago and nothing has come here to replace it. People coding at home would be a big boost. Like Appalachia, we are losing our young people to more metropolitan areas like Raleigh, Charlotte, and Atlanta (NYC is too expensive).
17
This is a great story, but I honestly wonder how much demand there really is for these types of workers in the US when you can outsource these jobs and get people in other countries to do essentially the same thing for much less money, even complex creative things that cant be easily automated.
2
Outsourcing technical work to foreign countries doesn’t save as much money as people think. I’ve been in IT for about 25 years. When outsourcing first started happening everyone was afraid software jobs would disappear from the US. That hasn’t exactly happened. On the contrary, graduates of top Computer Science programs are earning starting salaries that are higher than what most people earn at their peak. If it were that simple to outsource everything that wouldn’t be happening.
People doing lower level coding work will be vulnerable to automation to some extent but that won’t happen overnight, and at least some of them will be able to continue to develop their skills and stay ahead of the curve.
27
@QTCatch10 It's also important to keep those wages in the US where they can be spent locally and increase the multiplier effect. Whole communities benefit from this.
14
I was in a computer science class in college in 2011. This was when people were graduating and getting $130,000 jobs in Seattle at 22 years old (and rents weren't that bad then either). Guy next to me tell's me his parents pleaded with him not to do CS in 2007 when he started college, saying all the jobs would be outsourced / automated. Always made me kind of suspicious of whatever the current dogma is regarding future job opportunities. Also see the "Bowen Report" from 1989 warned of a massive shortage of professors and graduate students in the 1990's. Obviously that did not happen.
1
This is a great start - change, innovation and success has to begin somewhere. It's so encouraging to read this story - and I applaud the foresight of those who recognize that America is great because the resources that make it so are right here in plain sight. It just takes someone to notice. Thank goodness for those who believe in "hillbillies" who are human beings with brains, guts and aptitude - bravo!!
11
Great article. Compare problem-solving politicians and equitable entrepreneurship with the greedy coal barons and their corrupt politicians of the past.
11
it continually amazes me how every town in every state wants to get on the "stem" bandwagon. they know so little of the long-term socio-economic effects of converting everybody into service based knowledge workers. this nation still needs people to build things with their hands and computers will never be able to do that, no matter what the silicon gods say their boxes are capable of. parents - please - discourage your children from becoming computer serfs - they will get only a quick boost in pay and then fall prey to an industry that continually looks for fungible resources around the globe, not here at home. encourage your children and yourselves to invest in education and skills that are truly portable - knowledge, hand-tool based skills, and the ability to solve problems without computers and relations with people. That is the future - not devices.
4
@The HouseDog
I can't think of any industry that DOESN'T "continually looks for fungible resources around the globe."
The only exceptions are service jobs, from housekeepers and drivers to K-12 teachers, plumbers, cooks and chefs to nurses and doctors, that have to be physically done in a certain place. Some of these jobs pay well, the majority don't pay all that well.
Your call for students to learn more "real world" skills is important (from gardening to home repairs to community activism), but computer skills are also essential in today's world.
3
Here, a local community college’s handbook offered welding classes. After taking the money (later, refunded), setting a schedule, the class was canceled; not enough enrollees. For a retiree (not me) a letdown; for any young people that might have hoped for this basic knowledge- a lost intro to a needed craft, and possibly, art, innovation. Love computers, but so many other skills seem to be getting lost.
An aside; yesterday read an article on Cal. Farm Bureau and farmers’ increasing demands for ‘the right to repair’ their increasingly computerized tractors, farm equipment. Computers v. Real World. Both skills needed.
1
The cover image of this piece should NOT BE A WHITE MAN. I am a re-trained woman, previously a photographer, who learned to program. The constant instance of using white men as the cover image for anything tech is endlessly frustrating. It perpetuates the stereotype, adding to the immense field of hurdles for recruiting women into STEM fields. And with this piece, you clearly had an image of a woman who was a trainee. Use that. She probably has kids too. Thanks for the feel good piece, and this is clearly what the US needs, but please NYtimes, don't contribute to the stereotypes that help prevent this growth. You can, and should do better.
41
Yes, well said, thank you.
2
@Alison
I disagree that one photo or article contributes to stereotypes, and obsessing over that probably says more about you than about this paper.
Moreover, any such strong comment objecting to an individual's color and sex, other than "WHITE MAN", would never appear in the Comments section -- which says something about this paper.
Coding is perhaps the most likely job category soon to be completely disrupted by automation.
3
@Frank Knarf I've been in IT for over 20 years and we are nowhere near the point of technically having coding done by AI. Coding is very much like writing a novel with various twists, turns, and interpretations of needs and requirements. Certainly you could develop detailed instructions for a computer to assemble things but then again you might as well have written the code in the first place.
15
Agreed. AI is good for crunching large amounts of data and recognizing patterns. That’s why Siri and Alexa can understand your speech, at least most of the time. Essentially what’s happening in speech recognition is the computer uses statistical techniques to analyze the sounds you make to determine what you most likely said based on comparing them to predeveloped models.
That is a VERY different task from writing software.
7
You make some good points. But, keep in mind that 65 years ago programmers believed that efficient high-level languages were impossible and that programs needed to be hand-coded ... then Fortran was developed.
And what happens when AI decimates these jobs? Every article I've read that discusses jobs likely to wither away due to the expected explosion of AI in the next decade includes computer programmers. This seems like too little too late.
1
The ironic thing is that back in 2016 Clinton talked about retraining for jobs other than coal and was knocked for it. She was accused of not showing respect for the people there.Another thing is for these people to keep up their training and stay ahead of the curve. I remember the early days of computer programming and how many of them were replaced by the lastest model.
29
Well done, Matthew Watson. Nice to hear a story of someone doing well after struggling.
There's no reason for California to be the center of the tech world. In a world connected, nothing beats working remotely; people are happier, more productive, and getting away from the cubicle nightmare has to be a plus for anyone. And, like this story proves, it can lift people without forcing them to move to a crowded city.
Well done all.
3
It may be just a small start for a region plagued by gigantic problems, but after too many hours on angry Twitter, this story made my heart smile.
People who don't know this place see only its poverty.
They don't see the breathtaking beauty and peaceful stillness of the region. They don't understand the power of generational familial bonds that endure or the goodness of its people.
The Interapt story is a story of hope. It illustrates what we can accomplish when we come out from behind our tribal trenches and work together for the common good. Kudos to both Ankur Gopal and Arlie Hochschild, and best wishes to Matthew Watson and Hueysville!
21
This is simply great to read about! Be brave, Kentucky, it’s ok to let coal go, you gotta keep up or become irrelevant—that is the story of American enterprise, quite honestly, and I’m glad there are folks with vision to lead the way and folks brave enough to drown out the naysayers. There’s more to be done in Kentucky, and all the rust belt states. Laying down fiber for high speed Internet is one of them. Building and army of coders is the other side of it.
And yes you have to keep adjusting. No one has the same job for 30 years anymore, and companies are just not very grateful for their workers in terms of pensions. With absence of unions, we have to keep doing what’s best for ourselves no matter what. No company deserves your loyalty anymore.
15
This is just one of many bipartisan efforts/activities needed to keep the U.S. competitive and bring more citizens into the tech economy. We also need an education policy (national, state, and local) that works hand-in-hand with making all levels of education (college, vocational, life-long learning, etc.) affordable and accessible. Admittedly, we have become lax in devising (realistic/workable) policies that encourage STEM careers. But the program featured is an impressive start at reaching out to those who might not have even considered a career in technology. I would like to think that once so initiated into the world of tech, many will choose to go on to pursue degrees in math, physics, chemistry, materials science, engineering, etc.
5
The state of Kentucky and its various governments probably spend large amounts of money bribing businesses to move there or not to move out. They could have supported developments like these, but I guess the business elite that runs Kentucky is not interested, and would rather be on the Trump bring-coal-back train.
21
“We believe in distributed jobs,” he said. “There is no reason these companies can’t engage thousands of talented workers in Iowa, Kentucky or West Virginia for projects.”
There may be "no reason" in principle, but availability of high-speed broadband connectivity is one necessary foundation. This is an area where government, at all levels, should do whatever is necessary to promote the proliferation of Internet access.
51
This article highlights how these people are preyed upon and manipulated by politicians as pawns for their political goals. Appalachian's distrust and suspicions are amplified for political gain, to the point that they don't even trust a job training program that PAYS them to obtain the skills for a solid middle class job.
20
So is Jack Ma, the retiring CEO of Alibaba, wrong? He says it's a mistake to train your children to code because coding is one of things AI "robots" are learning to do and much faster and eventually, (soon) cheaper. This effort does seem to be too little too late.
Unless we're at a historical moment similar to the burning of the library at Alexandria, and the slow decline and fall of the Roman Empire, it seems that our entire economic paradigm must lurch into the unknown and find a new way forward as better human beings, not compete with AI robots (which move faster than we can perceive).
Mr Ma's advice is pursue an imaginative, creative, artistic life, liberty and happiness.
Basic income, NOW!
2
@Newsbuoy, as a person who has a PhD in computer science and has worked in this field for 30+ years, please know that it would not be possible to train robots to write the majority of computer code. It requires humans with training, and there is no end in sight with regards to demand. This article is right on when it says that the tech industry hires hundreds of thousands of coders from India and foreign countries to do this work. It is so refreshing to see that folks are finally realizing the ticket to our success is to train folks here in the USA for these jobs.
It also goes without saying that this is exactly why we need to fund good education for our young people, starting at kindergarten and before. Countries like India and China put a high value on education, as they know they need great education to have a workforce suited to tomorrow's needs. If we in the USA do not collectively agree to demand education funding, we will slip in the world standings. Coal jobs are not coming back, and even the folks in coal country know that.
69
@PJ point taken. From the perspective of the last 30 yrs (congrats) it appears there is no end in site. Famous last words, I seem to recall hearing in 2007 just as the team I was with developed a streamlined process for producing CMBS (commercial mortgage backed securities) termsheets. I changed career from analog production to software testing. In 2015 I was "let go" by an L1B and replaced by an H1b. At my 30+ stage career I don't seem to be able to get anyone's attention. (oops,my bad)
2
@PJ You have a cramped view of the future role of AI in software development.
1
Yeah, but more importantly, what’s the immigration status of everybody involved?
“Ankur Gopal, a University of Illinois graduate from Owensboro, Ky., started Interapt in his basement in Louisville in 2011, when he was 35.”
Do we live in a great country, or what? That one sentence gives me so much hope.
58
Yes, Comrades! A very fair trade: The Heartlands give us tRump, we give them jobs.
16
Since when is Kentucky the heartland of anything except perhaps Appalachia?
4
Programs like this deserve better funding. $2.7M is operating cost for 84h of flight time of a single F-35.
15
@observer
Trump wants to cut funding when how much is spent on his weekend jaunts.
7
Meanwhile, the orange buffoon is CUTTING education and retraining funds so he can build a wall and cut taxes to put us all deeper and deeper in debt!
33
I have news for Mr Watson and everyone else getting sucked into this line of work.
Coding (or computer programming, as it was once unfashionably known) is the world’s most outsourceable job.
There is no reason that a smart kid in Ethiopia couldn’t do every bit as well as a US-based counterpart at one 20th of the cost.
If you want job security try something relatively non-outsourceable like plumbing, electrical or HVAC.
21
@RobfromMedford, as someone who has worked in the computer industry for 30+ years, I agree that these jobs can be outsourced to other parts of the world. However, there is also strong recognition in many companies that outsourcing is less than idea. Take Target corporation, for example. After their massive data breach 3 years ago, they understood that outsourcing can be penny wise and pound foolish. With so many folks overseas, nobody knows what is going on. Almost immediately afterwards, they undertook a huge effort to bring coding back to the USA.
I currently work at an organization that has zero offshoring, and that is on purpose. While the salaries of US workers are higher, it is a great value as we get at least 75% more productivity out of the workers. Being here, understanding US culture, and not having to communicate across timezones on the other side of the world is anti-production. And thankfully many organizations realize this. If they have local resources available, there will definitely be demand to fill the positions.
33
@RobfromMedford
Small towns don't have the volume of work necessary to support a full time person in those trades. Our house generates about 1-2 hours of work for a plumber per year. One plumber can service 1000 homes in our area. That's several thousand people.
8
Silicon Valley is the home of the new "Robber Barons " and "Malefactors of Great Wealth " in the new "Gilded Age" who are corruptly and covertly working to destroy our divided limited power constitutional republic of united states where the people are sovereign.
And the 63 million Americans who voted for Donald Trump including 58 % of the white American majority made-up of 62% of white men and 54 % of white women are on the menu as the prey of these high tech predators. Trump despises the likes of those two sons of Confederate Alabama aka Addison Mitchell McConnell ,Jr. and Jefferson Beauregard Sessions, III along with anyone who comes from Dixie and slowly drawls and mangles the American English language like those two good old boys.
MAGA!
This is a great story. Interesting how this plan to help americans in a place that is often distrustful of anybody who doesn't look like them was started by a person of apparently Indian heritage...funny how that works.
26
Wonderful. This is exactly what we all need - and one great way to bridge our divides.
Thank you, Interapt.
10
This is very good news. And yet this is only applicable to a very small portion of the 'left behind' people of the USA. It will take far more than a handful of high tech programming jobs to lift the poor out of poverty and marginal jobs.
2
@elained: Yes, but all good things need to start somewhere. Getting even a few people with better-paying jobs in an area also creates more of a market for other things.
6
People worried that it might be some Obama big-government program. Sorry, but when economic forces hit places, it's government's job to train, recruit, and if necessary help relocate the displaced. America's dropped that ball on that, and it's not just in DC. In rural Kentucky people hate the idea, too.
Business can do a lot, but it can't do it in a vacuum, as evidenced by the scramble just to keep existing funding. Government can lead from behind, but business will come and go, so it has to provide stability.
Democracy is demand driven. If Kentuckians don't want government assistance, they won't get it. It's not a question of hand-outs, but making programs that work. This story feels good. But you know it'll be a drop in the bucket, until this country can overcome its ritual hatred of government.
30
@Brian I agree. I was totally stopped by the line "...was associated with some big-government, Obama-era program". I know that the people in the South have the reputation of working against their own best interest, but would they really turn down a lifeline because it was associated with Obama? Are they really that dumb? Nobody can be that dumb.
4
" If Kentuckians don't want government assistance, they won't get it. "
Oh, they want government assistance, all right. They just won't call it that. ACA, after being rebranded as KyConnect is very popular and highly utilized in Kentucky. I grew up in Kentucky. Our home had a phone number that was one digit different than a post office. At the first of every month, we'd get calls from people looking for their government check.
8
Everyone should read Dr Hochschield's book, "Strangers in their Own Land." Very illuminating. Wondering if Mr Gopal is 1st generation American.
8
Programs like Interapt are more than paychecks, they effect generational change for the families and for the region.
But "President Trump is not helping by proposing cuts in education funding that will raise the cost of student loans by more than $200 billion over the next decade. Last year, he tried to cut all funding for the Appalachian Regional Commission, which paid Interapt students’ stipends. A group of representatives — eight Democrats and two Republicans — signed a joint letterurging Trump to restore the money (it was)."
Please, Appalachia, vote for YOUR financial best interests. VOTE out Trump's power in 2018 and VOTE Trump out in 2020!
34
Salaries are less than what Bangalore costs. In house IT training used to be how it was done so why not go full circle and bring the jobs home?
12
"Out in the hollows, you can’t call in specialists; you fix that stalled truck, that leaky roof, that broken radio yourself.”
Thank you!! This might be the first time I have ever read any outside press on the region that highlights the tremendous strengths and smarts of the holler (my family has lived in WV since the 1700s). Thank you for trying to help change the narrative. Stereotypes have strongly negatively affected both how outsiders perceive Appalachians and how we perceive ourselves. I'd like see the word "hillbilly" banned from use by any outsiders (it's generally used a slur) but this is great start.
147
@Anon I don't think we have paid enough attention to how we can help people translate and transfer basic skills from one situation to another. I have many talents and a lot of education but when it comes to "fixing things" I am stumped. We need to affirm the importance of all skills and trades so that people feel empowered to go beyond the basics and trust in themselves. For too many years we have focused too narrowly on specific skill sets. What is coding after all but a certain set of aptitudes and skills which can be learned and then applied elsewhere?
2
I left IT to return to teaching. My first job is teaching robotics to 8th graders. It starts next week, but the kits (coming from China) are stuck in customs in Houston. It finally dawned on me - probably stuck because the tariff nonsense instigated by our dysfunctional president! How symbolic!
88
@MStory. Why not reach robotics to local Community college to kids on the blue collar side of the industry? Or better yet, in the rural half of Oregon that probably feels more like rural Kentucky than the Pacific Northwest high tech corridor. Lego-Logo or whatever it's become since I left Apple doesn't come from China, last time I looked. Neither do the plethora of Strong-Arm processor boards that support a myriad of robotics projects at very low cost.
I am amazed at the courage of this young man, Matthew Watson.
His grit, his nerve, his willingness to put his life, his family, his home at risk to come out publicly as a Hillary-loving, Democrat-sympathizing, old-run-down-economically-hopeless-Kentucky-despising, elitely-educated, coal-looking-down-on person, and walk about the state in comfy shoes and floppy shorts is awe inspiring.
I don't imagine his neighbors are all that pleased. Surely Mitch is deeply disturbed.
Honestly, though, it is good to see a flash of hope in that lovely state, at long last. And its really good to see Matthew doing so well. Nice job.
68
@oogada I've just re-read the article, and I didn't see anything about Mr. Watson's being a "Hillary-loving, Democrat-sympathizing, etc." Did we read the same article?
1
@oogada
I read the article twice. Unless I missed it (twice), I didn’t see anything about Mr. Watson’s love for Hillary Clinton.
Mr. Grieves, you are correct.
However, what Mr. Watson and other like him are realizing, even if they're not, is that they are benefiting mightily from exactly the program of services endorsed by Mrs. Clinton. A program used to crucify her in Kentucky and elsewhere by the McConnell/Good Old Boy axis as "We don't want no retraining you libtard elite, we want more coal..."
It appears she had a better idea than Trump. And it appears a few brave pioneers are taking advantage.
Either way, no matter who was right, it is excellent to see some light for Kentucky, a beautiful place that well deserves better than it got.
Is the country really wanting to help the so called middle- for sure tech jobs are part of the answer- however if Kentucky or the US as a whole were to adopt a renewable fuel standard every field and meadow from the Ohio to the great desert would be a money maker in the renewable energy economy.
8
The federal government is paying for the training-- 2.7 million dollars, in fact. This was not a high risk venture from Mr. Gopal. Indeed, only 50 were accepted from an applicant pool of 800. Are we to assume bcause those in the program are from KY they were particularly hard cases?
This has resulted in a grand total of 35 jobs in the first year. The salaries listed were slightly less than US median level at best. So, let us not get carried away.
11
@kat,
It takes financial capital to start a program and first graduating classes are typically small. Harvard was founded on a large gift from it's namesake donor and graduated nine students in it's first class. If this effort is still consuming resources out of proportion to the benefit it delivers five years from now, it will be time to ask hard questions. There is a high level of awareness of abuses by "for profits", so it is highly unlikely this is not on the up-and-up. If we are going to help our fellow Americans work their own way out of the holes of economic despair, we need to be patient.
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It's a start...and finally a positive story about Kentucky.
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@Charles Becker -- Do you know how many of these types of stories I have read? Spoiler- silicon valley does not save the day. Sometimes it's the inner city, sometimes it is a rust belt town, but the numbers are always underwhelming . People such as Gopal are good at getting government to bend to their will and certainly at siphoning government money. This read like a press release, not a serious work of journalism.
The economies of places like Hueysville, Kentucky will succeed in spite of Donald Trump, not because of him. If Trump had his way innovators like Ankur Gopal would be sent back to India and men like Matthew Watson would be offered empty promises of work in a shuttered factory or coal mine that is never coming back. Fortunately he and many other residents of rural America can see and embrace a dynamic, diverse future that our dinosaur president only sees as a threat.
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For what it's worth, Hillary was pilloried in W. Virginia when she suggested that coal wasn't viable and that an investment was needed in being able to train workers for 21st century jobs, although that last point was drowned out by the rancor of the right. Fortunately, it seems as if someone actually listened to everything she had to say, and this piece speaks to the truth of her claims and views.
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@Larry
I agree. Real leadership is telling people the truth even if it's not what they want to hear. Clinton told the truth of the matter and her solution was problem-solving -- not politics. Trump told fearful people a lie that they wanted to hear simply to get votes.
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What an uplifting and positive story! I would hazard a guess that Mr. Gopal is from an immigrant family. One of my favorite parts, in a story with lots of favorite parts, is his desire to give back to HIS community. Immigrants have made this country strong and continue to enrich our nation. Thank you, Mr. Gopal.
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Thanks to the writer, Arlie Hochschild, for addressing -- even slightly -- the stereotypes that are used to describe Eastern Kentuckians and other residents of the Appalachians. Some of the smartest people I've ever met -- and I have a Ph.D. -- lived there.
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@Arthur Arthur, you are absolutely right! As an immigrant and graduate of Berea College in Berea, KY, I know first-hand what smart and dedicated people come out of those "hollers"! Many return to the mountains as teachers, doctors, lawyers -- anxious to stay in their communities and to improve the lives of their fellow Appalachians. This project will make it possible for many of them to live in the places they love, and to thrive! Valerie (also a Ph.D.)
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It is not China, India, and other aspiring nations that have hollowed out middle America. That’s the global economic reality at work.
It is our own fault for not investing sooner in education and retraining programs like this to help displaced workers adjust.
The resulting vacuum was filled by resentment, despair, opioid addiction, and the populist backlash that elected Trump.
Tariffs won’t help. Rather, they will further hurt these same displaced workers by killing jobs and raising prices.
Innovative programs like this are remarkably inexpensive and effective. This works. More, please.
One thing I can vouch for, because I’ve met them: Many of these “hillbillies” are remarkably intelligent, resourceful, creative, delightful, and hard working. They would not have survived in those economically depressed regions if they were not!
I wondered, “Why do they stay in such an economically depressed region?”
It is because they love the land, stunning natural, quiet and unique food, music and culture. They are loyal to friends and family. They have obligations. Leaving Appalachia would rip out their very heart and soul. So they stay.
Give them the dignity of a living wage and the chance to stay, and you will get some of the most loyal, creative, resourceful and hard working people in the world.
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@Charles Davis Yes, by all means, lets reward them for their wonderful gift of tRump! Now that we will assist "White" Appalachia, what about inner city America? Can we give them dignity of a living wage? How about just simple dignity?
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@Charles Davis
A lot of them do leave, for Appalachian cities or other parts of the country, and probably do better than the ones who stay.
If education and retraining do not, or do and then cease to, create enough decent jobs, this means that we have more people than the market can use. If this happens, either the market in its present form must go or some of the people must go. Our drug problem, rising suicide rate, and other factors indicate that we are now choosing to go with the second option. We call the first option socialism and have somehow convinced many that it inevitably ends in Venezuela or Cuba rather than Germany, Sweden, or France.
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It would be a nice change if we would also do the same for black communities...they've suffered far longer and much worse from disregard.
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It's nice that adults can get good jobs coding but what's really vital is that the children across America grow up with strong computational skills.
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@Amy And reading skills, and math skills, and biology and climate knowledge, and and and
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Besides Mr Gopal, hats off to the individuals who responded to his ads. Not all of them met the requirements and made it into the program, but hundreds did respond, showing there is a pool of workers who are willing to learn something new and eager for opportunity.
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@Monica C
That's true, isn't it? I guess that's another story, but one that needs to be told too. i.e. people trying their best, and, at least as of yet, not getting traction in the 21st C world of things.
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@Monica C: 800 responded -- he took 50 of the most qualified -- 15 dropped out, which is a 30% dropout rate (very high). So 35 people succeeded and got jobs (they sound like telecommuting jobs).
35 out of 800.
I am delighted for these people -- nothing on earth gives more dignity to people than KNOWING they have a good job and have skills which are VALUED by society.
However, this has a long way to go -- and coding is a very specific kind of talent that only a few people have.
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@Concerned Citizen
"he took 50 of the most qualified -- 15 dropped out, which is a 30% dropout rate (very high)." In job retraining programs, 30% drop rate is low, not high. People drop for many reasons and those listed in the article are common.
And, yes, these are "telecommuting jobs." There are lots of those in many industries.
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This is what makes us great. Thank you Mr. Gopal for swimming against the tide to bring hope, dignity and employment to these wonderful people who have been lied to and abandoned by the "takers". No jobs are guaranteed forever...especially 19th century industries like coal. Promising that those jobs are coming back, instead of supporting training for the jobs of the future, is the ultimate betrayal. Giving people agency and hope is critical for our ever-changing economy. The GOP intentionally works to keep people down, angry, and hopeless by cutting benefits both for health, family services and education. The next thing you know, these people will be voting.
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@Lilnomad
"The next thing you know, these people will be voting."
Yup, until something happens. Then, they are voting republican.
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@Lilnomad Thank you. Everyone be sure to vote!
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The author makes a great point. It's all about opportunity. Mr. Watson grasped opportunity like a lifeline. Some of his customers, the opioid addicts with slurred speech, either never found opportunity or let the lifeline of opportunity slip from their grasp.
Tales of Floyd County, Pike County and the counties of Eastern Kentucky are all about opportunity found, opportunity lost, success and failure. I grew up hearing those tales. I spent my early childhood, and many of my summers in a holler in Floyd County. When I was young, I thought those tales were about Eastern Kentucky. Life taught me that those tales are universal truths.
Good luck and Godspeed Mr. Watson. Hang on to that lifeline and follow it wherever opportunity takes you.
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Some keep insisting that the surest path to job growth is to embrace 19th century technologies, especially in Appalachia, given the abundance of certain natural resources. That has worked out poorly for the inhabitants, even before the coal jobs started to dry up.
Finally, someone with a clear vision of the future (really the present) has realized that jobs that can be outsourced to Hyberdad can as easily be outsourced to Henry. The next step is for the world’s largest purchaser of software, the U.S. Government, to “mine” this newly-discovered resource by ramping up its HUBzone set-asides to create jobs where they are needed most.
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It's gratifying to see people working on ideas that truly lift Eastern Kentuckians out of poverty, instead of falsely promising them that we will bring back the coal industry. In this fast-changing world, there is no guarantee that these new jobs will last long, but they might. I tip my hat to all involved. See RevolutionOfReason.com
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I live an hour outside of Boston and work for a large company that's based in Mountain View, California. I travel to Silicon Valley once a month.
Although suburban Metro Boston is expensive, every time I am in Mountain View I am amazed that the place is still holding together. The expense of living there is epic. The gigantic hoovervilles beneath freeway overpasses are sobering. The road traffic is soul-killing.
There’s an ocean of faces from all over the world in Silicon Valley—every culture and race imaginable that’s seemingly a progressive’s paradise. And it’s a libertarian’s heaven too—for some people, all you need is grit, determination and smarts to succeed in the high tech meritocracy. And a lot of luck.
But the cultural diversity there and moxie displayed is flattened out—nearly everyone makes six figures or better. In terms of income and class, Silicon Valley is profoundly monocultural.
I am glad to see Interapt take some bites out of Silicon Valley—its mega-companies fail to provide enough answers when it comes to meeting the challenges of tech economy.
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@Questioner
Silicon Valley is monocultural -- except for the underpass Hoovervilles. They are part of the picture, too.
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@sdavidc9 As a long time resident of and worker in SV, I can tell you that that is absolutely not true - mono-cultural, that is.
It was not in 1967 when I started work there (more so than now but...) and not true when I quit in 2000. Nor is it true today for my son and daughter-in-law who live and work there today.
If students from InterApt could make it there somehow and succeed, they'd make a sight more than $40k per year. They are on a good track. Good luck to 'em!
Let us move beyond the political divide and focus on the views we share. People need jobs and companies need workers. This article describes a win-win for all involved.
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Thank you Ankur Gopal!
This is what happens when people connect dots, work together and put thoughts into action, on all sides. My heart just goes out to everyone who is willing to learn and evolve, and the companies, politicians, educators and of course the people who are courageous enough to jump into something new and scary at first. I have so much respect for everyone, especially the Founder, for looking forward and seeing that all most people want is an opportunity that offers an equal shot at a quality of life and some dignity and respect for the challenges they are looking squarely at, and taking the opportunity and running with it. Now- lets get this program into South Chicago and inner city neighborhoods, to really offer a level playing field to "everyone."
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It is nice to read something hopeful and positive for a change. Having been reared in what became an abandoned, impoverished former factory town, I can relate. Two things are needed. First are new ideas like these of how to generate sustaining employment in those depressed inland areas, where many with the work ethic lie idle. Second is overcoming the self-defeating attitude of those who are fearful of moving to areas where employment possibilities are more promising. Being emotionally rooted to a hometown that no longer offers adequate employment opportunity is not something to be praised or encouraged. It is a form of mental illness. Take it from one who left and saw what happened to those who didn't.
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Throughout the Appalachian mountains we have endured stereotypes, perpetuated by the 'Deliverance' mentality, that are prejudiced beyond imagining for any other group of people.
Thank you for the article.
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@Z “...beyond imagining for any other group of people.” It’s not a competition.
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@Z
How about the welfare queen or Willie Horton stereotypes, or the stereotypes of Democrats purveyed by the Donald and his party? Thinking that mountain people are stereotyped worse than anyone else is sort of provincial and sort of confirms one part of the stereotype.
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The PC industry started in the US in the late seventies. Today, no PC is made here, and even the components. everything moved mostly to China and that is bad for the economy and national security.
The last three administrations failed us the American people. To be a president you need to have exceptional knowledge of the economy, national security and more.
I am happy for the people who made it with some help. Rural American was left behind and that's why we ended up with this administration because nobody, I mean career politicians, cares.
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@Templer: Neither party seems committed to solving our problem of chronic trade imbalance -- a problem largely caused by the US dollar being the world reserve currency and the monetary unit which other nations seek and hoard to conduct trade with each another. They sell here not to gain dollars then to be spent here, but to be spent elsewhere. The result here is cheap imports against which local producers of goods and services cannot compete. Trade imbalance should cause the dollar to plunge vs. the currencies of other countries from which we import. That does not happen when your currency is valued largely for use elsewhere, trade between other nations. Make sense?
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@Penseur The trade imbalance -- for the umpteenth time -- is because American like to buy cheap stuff. Maybe the Chinese would, too, if our stuff cost less, but my guess is no. We love to buy stuff; we're the only country in the world that buys so much disposable stuff.
Do you think that if the dollar wasn't a reserve currency that we could still pay for imports with it? Maybe we could, or we might be forced to use another currency to pay for our imports. If we don't produce enough that other countries want to buy, they won't want our dollars. They might, instead, ask us to pay in Euros. Being a reserve currency is, on the whole, to our benefit.
Along with this progressive initiative, I hope a progressive radio station is started to bring Democracy to the airwaves
of the South and rural areas of the North. Maybe, Mr. Watson can create an APP
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@Jim Check out Appalshop and WMMT, out of Whitesburg, Ky. These are real gems serving the Eastern Ky coalfields and beyond.
https://www.appalshop.org/
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So I guess we build it one job at a time. My question, when these people get saved by "the other side" will they admit their mistake and forsake Trump? Nah, they will still vote against their own self interest.
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@Paul I am sorry. The attitude you expressed in your comment is a perfect illustration of how liberals act in an "elitist" manner. It is clear from this article that these people are grabbing an opportunity for some economic mobility. An opportunity that was created by Republicans and Democrats together. This is not a zero sum game and we are all in it together. One of the most hopeful stories I have read about actually helping people gain useful skills to support themselves and their families. And in the process managing to stay home where their roots are instead of moving to a city. Excellent!
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@Paul
Plus, when we are talking about saviors don't forget Connecticut based Purdue Pharmaceuticals. They saw opportunity in KY and WV and created a booming opioid industry.
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@marty It is too easy to broad brush all members of a given group based on the comments of one. One of the politicians from California making things like this happen in all probability would be classified as a "liberal". "Liberal" and "elitist" are used too often as dog whistles by some members of the so called right. Put it to rest, it adds nothing positive to the conversation.
If every silicon valley business bursting at the seams in unaffordable California would branch off and create a mini-Silicon in down and out communities the benefits to the country would be enormous. Imagine 200 versions of Apple or Google in Ohio and Tennessee and upstate New York, each one humming along doing the same things that the Mountain View campuses are doing, but in their own towns. Those coders and software engineers can sit behind desks anywhere - they don't need to be sitting in California to do their job. Rents are affordable, people stay in their own communities near family and friends, improving the quality of life for the whole town just by paying taxes on a proper salary. Imagine how your own small struggling town could thrive if the human resources in every town were utilized right where people are already living, instead of having to move away to a crowded urban center in some other state. This is the way to make America great again - spread the wealth and all boats will float.
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@Rabble you are absolutely right that developers can code from anyplace. It is also true that testers can test software from anyplace.
More than 90% of the developers and testers on my current project or either H1B workers or people working from the Philippines and India. I have liked nearly individual I have worked with here, even if they are not as knowledgeable or experienced as they're claimed to be when management puts them on the project instead of the skilled local people that are available and willing to do the work.
Claims of lack of skills in the US are only a corporate excuse for going offshore for cheap labor, using people who can afford to work for cheap while living in a third world economy.
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@Rabble You hit it spot on. Look at the havoc Amazon has inflicted on parts of Seattle and now they want to do it again to another community by opening up a second headquarters with up to 50,000 people. Why not 50 locations with a thousand employees spread across the country? Trying to put 50,000 people in one spot you compete with yourself for resources and people.
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@Rabble "Those coders and software engineers can sit behind desks anywhere" -- only if those desks are serviced by high-speed internet access, which is lacking in large swaths of the hinterlands. Back in the 50's, this country got behind rural electrification because it was sold as being good for everybody, not just the farmers. That same public spiritedness needs to come again.
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Wonderfully hopeful story! Good news is welcome. Thank you.
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It seems a good start. Ironic that this retraining of folks in the region is the very thing about which Hillary Clinton spoke in a piece the right wing media picked from to run an add where she said "we're going to put a lot of coal miners out of work." What the right-wing media left out was both her expression of gratitude to those miners & their ancestors for providing the rest of us with light & heat and her statements about the need to retrain them for the economy of the future. All of that was, of course, while Trump was yammering on (as he still is) about re-invigorating the coal industry. I'm sure he will, somehow, now take credit for this retraining.
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If I could recommend this 1,000 times, I would.
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@Anne-Marie Hislop
So true. This infuriates me.
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@Anne-Marie Hislop
What was reported by the rest of the media was mainly how stupid her remark was and how it would be used against her, and much speculation on the effect of this use on her campaign. The context, and the right wing's taking it out of context, got much less coverage. Speculation about the effect of the right wing's taking something out of context on its reputation was almost nonexistent; thanks perhaps to the rest of the media and the way it covers events, the only effect of such dishonesty seems to be to irritate the other side.
If sports were covered in this manner, fans would explain away calls against their teams by referee bias. They would listen to sportscasters who were not fans of their team only to mock them. Such fans and such coverage would make sports as we know them impossible. We need a politics with as much integrity as professional sports, and voters with as much integrity as sports fans.
The solutions are always right before our eyes. The federal government should have supported these initiatives long ago. We also need to bring high speed broadband to everyone. It is a "utility." Where would the rural south be today had the TVA not been a huge federal project. Every American deserves to be part of the future.
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So interesting that you mention the TVA. That's the 3rd time this week I've heard the TVA referenced. 1st was on the Brian Lerer show on WNYC, in an excellent podcast on the Coop as a business model. The 2nd was yesterday from Maya Wiley, recently a member of the department Blasio administration. She was speaking at a future of media event. The TVA model is worth revisiting once we return to a functional federal government.
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@Mark right on! Our mantra should be “No workers left behind!”
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@Marcos Dinnerstein But Appalachia and Red State South don't want no Guvmint telling them what to do or how to live, hence POTUS tRump. TVA? That sounds like a Guvmint plot to take over our waterways, give us Pootin instead.