At Least 5 Deaths Reported as Storm Dumps Rain on Carolinas

The dead include a mother and her infant child, who were killed when a tree fell on their house in Wilmington.


Comments: 204

  1. Florence lost its punch. There may be floods but there won’t be any life lost. Thanks to Trump.

  2. Around here, there aren't any, or at least none who are not too embarrassed to admit it.

  3. CNN just reported two storm related deaths, a mother and an infant near Wilmington, NC.. The father was severely injured and has been sent to the hospital for medical treatment. Imagine how he must feel? Most likely, this will hit all the news outlets regardless of what type or of what political affiliation. So back to you Kodall.....how can you now say that no lives will be lost?

  4. DR,
    Trump's administration took 10 millions out of the FEMA budget and 29 millions out of the Coast Guard budget to use to built "relocation" camps for children of immigrants....

    Yes, Trump is to blame for what will follow this disaster (just as he should be blamed for the 3,000 deaths in Puerto Rico -- because he appointed incompetent persons ...)

  5. Concerning your video coverage, why exactly is the New York Times giving a platform to people who did not evacuate, as requested? It only encourages reckless behaviour. If you want to send a reporter there, go ahead. Sharing these videos will cost lives.

  6. Check out the little town of Oriental. On calm days most of it is about one foot above MSL.

  7. heard a woman from NC this morning on NPR who had not evacuated. sounded like they lived in a well-to-do neighborhood. when the host asked if she had thought about the fact that by staying she could be putting rescuers at risk should anything catastrophic happen and she needed to be rescued, the woman said no, she and her neighbors did not think about that. ugh!

  8. Heard this too, I was taken aback by her utter naivety regarding the seriousness of her decision. People are still not understanding the dangerous affect climate change has on these storms. Harvey apparently wasn't a wake up call.

  9. I was taken aback by this woman's utter disregard for the safety of those who first responders who put their lives at risk to save the lives of strangers. I'm sorry but that attitude appears to be incredibly selfish.

  10. Some people just won't leave what they perceive as the safety of their homes. Some, but unfortunately not all, of these people are fully prepared for whatever nature throws at them and make it through ok. Some get injured. Some die. If mandatory evacuation orders go unheeded, then, as far as I'm concerned, first responders have no obligation or duty to provide aid. The choices available to everyone, including poor and elderly, are pretty simple: prepare or evacuate. If you choose to stay behind, you own that decision together with all it's potential outcomes.


  11. As callous and cold as this seems, my prayers are with the "emergency rescue teams" who are "trying to reach hundreds of residents trapped in cars, on roofs and in their attics as the Neuse River overflowed and flooded the city." These brave and courage folks continue to put their lives on the line for others who never heed the mandatory evacuation alarm. Life should always be paramount over material items.

    Sorry for that emotional rant. In the end, I truly hope everyone is safe during and after this storm.

  12. They should be told if they stay they won't be rescued until conditions are to the point it is safe for rescuers to go out and look for them. That might get them to evacuate next time!

  13. That area was under mandatory evacuation. Very sad when people do not listen to the advice of the authorities even when the evac is mandatory.

  14. Marge, without a car, with kids and a pet or two in tow, just how is how one supposed to evacuate? Thoughts and prayers for the rescuers are easy American pie, but how about thinking critically instead about the much harder logistics of evacuation.

  15. you are singling out the people who ignore the warnings and "hunker down"
    so please return and follow up, asking them how they did and if they'd consider doing it again.
    how many had to be rescued
    how many didn't make it
    thanks, you owe it to we who heed warnings.

  16. No one is talking about all of the first responders who are working hard and laying their lives on the line. I hope people find a way to let them know how much they are appreciated.

  17. It is heartbreaking to think of what the people in North Carolina are going through right now with Florence. Most have left their homes and have no idea what they will return to. For some, this is their major investment and may lose what little they have. I have put myself in their situation and would be devastated. My thoughts and prayers are with the fine snd wonderful people of North Carolina.

  18. I swear I remember Jesus having a thing or two to say about the "Hypocrites and Pharisees," who like to make a big, public show of their holiness.

  19. @WPLMMT

    I love your closing paragraph. I believe the same as you. People on both sides of the issue should be able to express their views and beliefs without being vilified. Live and let live. Amen. Good luck to everyone who has/is/will encounter the effects of this storm and its aftermath. May everyone be safe when it is finally over.

  20. WPLMMT: Prayer is fine but should be accompanied by compassion and action, not hatred, lies, and vilification.

    What is objectionable is the hypocrisy. I suggest a close reading of the Gospels, a short, repetitive document.

    Whited sepulchers, moneychangers in the temple, casters of first stones, people who cross the street and leave help to the good Samaritan (read, for example, Muslim, many of whom are doctors, nurses, and home health aides in your local health facilities).

    Stewardship and community are Democratic values. Telling the truth, too.

    Democrats are not evil. I'm tired of being labeled. We care about you; how's about you care about us, and yourselves. Of course Trump loves to be the center of attention, but he unrepentant about hurting people for gain and lying and cheating to take advantage.

  21. My heart goes out to people who may face medical, financial, or other challenges when evacuating their homes. For able-bodied people who can evacuate, though, and choose not to, my sympathies are different. If a city official comes to your door, urges you to leave, and even offers a ride to shelter, there should be consequences if you refuse. What if refusers were then given written notification that they will be responsible for the costs of their future rescue? I'll bet the number of evacuees would go up considerably.

  22. We do not dominated nature, we are part of it. And like Sandy and other hurricane and typhoon showed us, we can play with nature (in this case causing global warming) but nature can take his revenge on us. And when it did, consequence are devastating.

  23. If only we could have predicted that there would be catastrophic flooding! Maybe New Bern folks read "mandatory" evacuation order. If you resent the government telling you what to do, why should the government rescue you when that turns out to be a poor decision? First responders are risking their lives for these people. If there was a place to go and a way provided to get there, they should have left.

  24. Y'all know the really great thing about this hurricane? It's bumping Trump off the front page. None of his moronic tweets are breaking through the constant coverage. The far bigger typhoon hitting the Philippines couldn't do the same, but thankfully we have this big storm now to give us a few days' break from Trump.

  25. Dan....don't be so naive and impatient...we all now that his Royal Hiney will make this event about him.

  26. After the storm, those affected should contact ted cruz for assistance with fema. His bi-weekly newsletters are always touting how much funding he has provided thru fema for the harvey hurricane. In a recent newsletter, he went on to say that he had fema set aside funds for hurricane relief that hasn't even yet occurred. Of course, if you are a business or corporation member, the response is likely to be favorable. If not, sorry about your luck.

  27. I was hit by Irma, lost my home, out of work one month. FEMA sent 20 year old temp workers to my little town Everglades City and all they said was “go online and apply for a SBA loan”. Not a good answer and impossible to do when you have no internet or electricity for 3 weeks. Disgusting that the USA treats their citizens this way. The lady I rented a condo from, because I was homeless, only took cash for rent. That way she could tell FEMA her condos were empty and she got money for loss of income. I told a FEMA rep this, he shrugged.

  28. I hear you!

  29. So much corruption and malfeasance in FEMA and so much part of the culture there. Is this the way every federal agency runs? I hope not.

  30. I love Eric Thayer's photos. Well done!

  31. They voted for the science deniers. They chose to stay put and "ride it out". The kind of help these people need more than anything is a good education, but sadly it's already too late. I know we should not be angry at those who just don't know better, but it's hard, especially when others are risking their lives to rescue them from their own foolishness and inability to reason.

  32. This type of condescension is why people in red states don't care for the "coastal elites." Have some compassion; no decision about staying or evacuating is as black and white as it seems like it should be. Besides, the congressional districts in North Carolina were just ruled unconstitutional due to gerrymandering . . . I think it's a stretch to assume that their elected officials actually represent the interests of the constituents there.

  33. @Katie: point taken, but what about "every person is made in the image of God" excludes Democrats and coastal elites. Prayer and the Gospels are well and good if they are not used as a stick to beat the less fortunate and less successful, and the criminalize poverty and freedom of speech. I'm a big fan of the Gospels, and as far as I can see, most of the evangelicals I read about (and I was once one, but on the liberal size, caring for all humans) would put Jesus in jail for his inclusive views and condemnation of hypocrisy and greed and pride.

  34. Seems everybody wants to keep the ball rolling on this "disaster" thing, but it looks like most people in the area have dodged a bullet. If a lot rain and some flooding is all that emerges from this, I call that a victory. Interesting to see if the POTUS takes credit for commanding the heavens.

  35. In a hail of bullets in a series of fusillades (a ware zone), do you declare yourself safe because the first bullet didn't hit you?

  36. For those criticizing people who remain behind, realize the decision is not so easy. We live in Austin, but my wife was in Houston for work as Hurricane Ike approached in 2008. An evacuation order was given for the coast and low-lying suburbs on the southern edge of Houston. She had lived in Houston, so she knew the city well, and she had gone through Allison in 2001, so she knew what to expect.

    It isn't as simple as getting in your car and driving inland. The roads become gridlocked, so it can take hours to travel a few miles. Gas stations run out of fuel, as everybody fills up their tanks, and resupply trucks can't get through. It's dark, it's raining hard, people are in unfamiliar areas, and they don't know where to go. People are driving on the shoulders, and the medians, and road rage incidents become frequent. People have guns. Panicked, stressed out people are stupid and extremely dangerous.

    Poor people, the elderly, those with health issues, or people with pets may not have the option to drive somewhere and stay in a hotel. They don't have a lot of options, which means sometimes they have to just hunker down and do the best they can. Try to have compassion, rather than judging them.

  37. "It's not my first rodeo"...smirk...
    Says it all. Incredibly short-sighted and self-centered. No one is considering the first responders, their families, their lives.

  38. The Administration could have, but you can see how much help they've been. Too busy defending their inaction on last years catastrophic hurricanes to help this year's potential victims in advance. Then, to, there's the raiding of FEMA to pay ICE this year. Gotta keep those immigrants locked up, after all.

  39. Well Cooper it's too late for that because the baby's mother died as well. You have NO IDEA why they stayed, yet you judge. Perhaps the mother was fearful of taking her baby to one of the overcrowded, possibly dangerous shelters where people were sleeping on the floors in the hallways if the photos of these place as published in the NY Times are to be believed.
    Everyone remembers the stories, also published here, about the terrible conditions people endured in the storm shelters during Katrina. I can understand why someone with a tiny baby might hesitate to bring her infant to an unknown place with unknown conditions for an indefinite length of time.
    The worst part of the news coverage on this horrible hurricane has been the comments section where people in their dry, secure homes cast aspersions on the people who made a difficult decision to stay.

  40. Florence is officially a clickbait dud - not a "monster" with EIGHTY THREE FOOT WAVES.
    Way OVER hyped to push the globalist"global warming" narrative, and to attack the president.

    Since you blamed Trump for the Cat 4, does he get credit for waving his magic wand and downgrading it to a nothing burger cat 1?

    Or will you give Obama the credit for that...

  41. "This is not about your president, but about life and death"

    please - at least try to be honest - it IS about lawfully elected President Trump...the one you won't recognize, but who is unarguably YOUR president too...until you abdicate your American citizenship, that is.

  42. Citation needed. Thanks in advance.

  43. "Lawfully elected" with some Russian help...

  44. We're only a few days away from Trump paying a short visit to the region to throw paper towel rolls at the stricken residents, then claim that he's orchestrating "The absolutely most terrific, amazing response to a very tremendous, very wet storm, folks." What a disaster. The storm, too.

  45. He won't do that because these are red states. He will show up with a crew of thousands, will spend all the billions needed, and the residents of NC and SC will say, "See? Greatest president ever."

  46. I’m sitting on my 3rd story porch in North Myrtle Beach. We are 1 block in from the ocean. Lots of wind & rain but not a lot of damage yet. We still have power believe it or not. Think the problem with this storm will be the long duration. But we’re ready with lots of food & water, a 6500 watt generator (with gas), and good company. Will keep y’all updated as the storm progresses here.

  47. You have enough food, gas and a generator. Great!

    But do you have enough money on you to pay for that airlift you'll eventually need?

  48. Some of us have duties etc. elsewhere. I take care of my family in Princeton, and survived Sandy, yet my ID is Boston. Better to avoid insults when they might be proven incorrect. Global warming/climate change is real, and all around us. But irony insults don't help open minds.

  49. take care

  50. Living on the southeastern coast of the US is a crap shoot.
    If the risks are too higjh, move to Kansas.
    F3

  51. And build a storm cellar? You can’t hide from weather

  52. Haven't you seen the Wizard of OZ? Hello...Tornados!

  53. Unless some big band of moisture is going to come in off the ocean this storm isnt even going to cause allot of rain. The USGS rain gauges only show allot of rain on the coast where the eye made land fall. Those areas can take allot of rain. For the last three hours though it seems that the rain has just about stopped everywhere else. Only Bogue Sound has reported more the an inch of rain for the last two hours. By far most of NC isnt seeing any rain at all.

  54. "Those areas can take allot of rain."

    What are you talking about? No, they can't.

  55. But we have to remember that Jim is safe and dry in WI, and no doubt feels empowered to pronounce on what's happening 1200 miles away. Climate deniers are like that - they always "know" more than the people on the scene. Just ignore Jim and his ilk.

  56. You might tune in to the actual, you know, news, over the next few days. Lies don't count. Reality is real.

  57. This terrible storm picks no favorites while it wrecks everything in its path, yet the cleanup could go much better than Puerto Rico. Since the wall of Carolina Republicans will be strong and cooperative with a seasoned FEMA, well educated by Puerto Rico's troubles, the outcome could turn the tide for the Republican midterms as well, assuming Florence is not as devastating as forecast.

  58. Attitude is everything. Just accept the fact of Nature, move on and not try to blame it on and hold it against something you don’t like. Biting off ones nose to spite their face is not a charming human characteristic.

  59. Attitude is not everything. In reality, we also need actual things after a storm such as garbage removal, electrical workers, pumps to remove the water, bags for the bodies, bleach and other antimicrobials to clean the muck and fungus off of every blessed thing.
    We still need hammers, nails, roofing tiles, and more, and that is just here in Houston where the clean up and recovery went so much better than in Puerto Rico.
    Are we still one nation under god? Or have we become 50 quarreling states that do not care about one another?

  60. It is not a lack of empathy. It is rage over the fact that the states that are most affected by natural disasters of this kind (e.g. Florida, NC) deny global warming, pursue policies that put people in harms way (e.g. building on barrier islands), and vote for like minded federal officials. I don't want my tax dollars used to support this lunacy. I would rather invest in saving our environment.

  61. it's my hope that there will be follow-up articles about the people who chose to "ride it out", with emphasis on how well informed they were and their actual ability to evacuate.

  62. PBS did an excellent follow up to Harvey about different people, including some people who stayed, how and why they stayed, most of them were not in flood zones.
    It would be interesting to see how another area compares.

  63. Some meteorologist or hurricane specialist needs to come up with a better grading system for hurricanes. As we saw with Harvey in Houston last year, in certain storms the rainfall is more of a factor than the winds. It's the flooding from the rainfall that's more worrisome than damaged buildings and flying debris from the winds.
    The pattern with climate change seems to be that the storms are moving more slowly, thereby dropping massive amounts of rain instead of passing through more quickly. Three miles an hour? That's almost stationary for all practical purposes. When you read about the damage, remember that's with far lower winds than originally anticipated, with a smaller storm surge. Florence was supposed to make landfall as a possible category 4 storm, what we're reading about is category 1.
    We need a new model, increasingly it's about the massive rainfall and resultant flooding, wind and accompanying storm surge not so much. A bit of luck too, surge would be worse if it happened during the new moon five days ago.

  64. Not really, storm ratings always decrease over land. They are powered by convection from warm water. Land is not made of warm water, so as the edges of the storm hit land the storm usually rating decreases.
    If the storm bounces out to sea again it can become more complex, but luckily that doesn’t happen as often.

  65. I rode out Harvey, and my family was very fortunate. We had 46-58” of rain in one weekend, but the community had just finished a new drainage project that saved our neighborhood.
    I have nothing but warm wishes for those in the current storm. I hope people stay safe, and help one another. This is the truest test of a community, and what we value.

  66. Let's hear it for a boring municipal necessity, intelligent storm water handling.

  67. This can't be true !!!!!

    The Carolina's were supposed to be 20' underwater!!!

    The Liberal media promised us a 10,000 year storm with mass destruction due to global warming !!!!!

  68. Liberal media didn't promise anything. We call them "weather forecasts," not "weather promises," for a reason.

    Not everything is a conspiracy against the poor conservatives who have the presidency, the senate, the house, most of the governorships, and soon the supreme court, but who somehow never cease to see themselves as victims.

  69. Is that the same "Liberal media" that refused to publish anything at all about Clinton's emails? That refused to claim that Clinton would be indicted by the FBI? That refused to print Comey's letter that came about a week before the election? That refused to make Benghazi a huge factor?

    Yep, those Liberal media folks never write anything bad about liberals! You are so right!

  70. Yes Peter, it is raining and people have died in North Carolina. Must be fake news.

  71. alarmists everywhere are crying. Where did my monster storm go. It was supposed a cat 5. 97% of climate scientists said so. All the climate models said it would wipe out all the red states. And it didn't. BOO HOO.

    Good luck N Carolina. Keep safe.

  72. robert -- you've got an answer for everything. But you're wrong as usual. Although we did go 12 years without a major hurricane hitting the contiguous US, it does happen. Sometimes they gain in intensity when they near land.

  73. Ah, another person who worships ignorance and doesn't understand a single iota about science, probability, and uncertainty. I guess the fact that some places have already received more than 2 feet of rain is just all made up.

  74. It's worse than in the fifties because now hurricanes linger much longer (check it out). Large quantities of ice is melting in the poles, and because of this ocean currents and winds are changing. That's the reason why hurricanes last longer than they used to. Check it out.

  75. People who choose not to evacuate are taking their lives into their own hands. If they need to be rescued, then they are putting other people's lives in danger and should be forced to pay for the cost of the rescue. The rest of the tax payers should not be forced to cover for their selfish choices.

  76. Those who can afford to leave but stay might pay but what about those who had to stay because they have no way out - no cars, or with age-related medical issues - or who need to work at jobs that still exist during the storm? Please THINK about the many poor (even working) people in this region and how poverty is affecting what is happening to them during the hurricane.

  77. I'm worried for the people who stay and the people who try their hardest to rescue them.

    Unless there's a genuine verifiable impediment to leaving - e.g. no car or a last minute evacuation order so close to the storm, that with traffic, it seemed safer to stay than get stuck on the road - people who ignore a mandatory evacuation order should be billed for their rescue later.

  78. The situation is very dangerous and very specific. I live in Houston and I would not judge anyone for leaving, or for staying. I have done both. We saw more people die in Hurricane Ike than in Hurricane Harvey because too many people tried to leave, and it was not safe. We ended up staying during Harvey, as it was our safest best option.
    I think as a nation we really need to come together with better systems of railways etc. because we have seen serious disasters in pretty much every state at this point. We need to be prepared no matter what happens, no matter where it happens, so that we can all help each other.

  79. SO your first interview says a lot: a woman with limited resources herself moves her kids to their grandmother and then reports to her work - VITAL work - with vulnerable patients at a nursing home which was not evacuated. That's why she's still there.

    It's beginning to sound as if with all of the advance weather alerts, and warnings to evacuate, the states and cities involved did not actually DO enough to assure their most vulnerable residents' safety. Public announcements are fine for those with mobility, enough money, their own vehicles, and places to go.

    The BIG lesson from Katrina is that things can get deadly, and the powers that be need to formulate disaster plans that deal with reality - the reality of those who have the fewest options. And the plans aren't ad hoc: they have to be made far in advance with all of your residents and businesses and hospitals and congregate care facilities made aware.

  80. Judging from the flooding and damage so far, calling people "alarmist" is simply wrong. If the weather service misses on the low side, they are incompetent; on the high side, alarmist. Since weather disasters are slow, it's a bit early to declare this a non-event.

    Just how many people dead and how much damage to infrastructure is required for this storm to get some people to understand this actually is a major disaster.

  81. All I can say is that if you have come here ( a comment section about a storm and lives being lost or saved ) to comment/rant about a political message, then there is something wrong with you.

    Offer something constructive and have some decency. (again in context that at this very moment people are losing their homes and lives)

  82. @FunkyI: Thanks for gracious graceful grace ...

    "For Heaven and the Future's Sake" (Madeleine L'Engle, I think)

  83. Emily Dickinson, I presume. See also Robert Parker's novel, "Mortal Stakes."

  84. Oh my (for Robert Out West, FI, and myself!). Once upon a time my motto for art making. How could I have forgotten! Robert Frost:

    https://www.poemhunter.com/poem/two-tramps-in-mud-time/

    But yield who will to their separation,
    My object in living is to unite
    My avocation and my vocation
    As my two eyes make one in sight.
    Only where love and need are one,
    And the work is play for mortal stakes,
    Is the deed ever really done
    For Heaven and the future's sakes.

  85. I read the news and it seems that NC is under water. I looked several times today. But the USGS rain gauges say its not raining that hard. Only two rain gauges in the whole state show more then an inch of rain for the last three hours. That will be the one at Bogue Sound and the one at Trent River. I don’t get the difference from what i am reading in the news and what the government is actually reporting. For those that really want to see how rain has fallen check it out. Nc.water.usgs.gov

  86. The flooding began before the rain due to high tide and even higher storm surge. The flooding is quite real and will worsen with rain.

  87. Or they could read the article, which clearly says that Swansboro has already had 15 inches of rainfall, with rain still falling at a rate of three inches per hour.

  88. I don't know what Jim is talking about. Just (three minutes ago) checked this USGS page

    https://waterdata.usgs.gov/nc/nwis/current/?type=precip&group_key=co...

    which lists rainfall amounts from all over NC for the last hour, 6, 12, 24 hours etc. and there are many places that show 8, 9, 10-- as much as 13 inches of rain in the past 12 hours, and by the looks of things, this may only be the beginning.

    Also, I have been reading the National Hurricane Center

    https://www.nhc.noaa.gov

    forecast discussions every time a new one comes out for the past five days, and this hurricane has done just what they said it would do. I don't understand the snarky comments. Note also: there is a link to 'Storm Surge Watch/ Warning' that has a map that has been updated constantly for at least the past five days. The very places, like New Bern, NC, that have been in the zone of most extreme predicted storm surge are now under 10 feet or more of water. NWS has done a great job predicting this hurricane. People should pay attention to the actual products that they are paying for with their taxes.

  89. As Mother Nature once again rules relentlessly, isn’t it time we consider moving away from the coast? The first Americans did not build permanent encampments along the coast, both east and west, for a reason. Climate change, enhanced through human folly, will only worsen future storms, making life along the coast unpleasant at best.

  90. At the very least stop insurance and taxpayer rebuilds.

  91. Whoops, meant taxpayer funded rebuilds.

  92. @Philip-"As Mother Nature once again rules relentlessly, isn’t it time we consider moving away from the coast?" First off, last time I checked Seattle was on the Pacific coast of Puget Sound. Are you moving?
    How far away from jobs should dock workers live? Fishermen? Ship builders? Tourism and hospitality workers? Seeing the East Coast has some of the largest ports how would goods from other countries get here? Simple solutions for complex situations.

  93. These seems to be over except for flooding and rain. Glad it's been less than advertised so far.

  94. "advertised" is a poor word for a warning. Florence has performed almost exactly as predicted. The rains are coming, the power is out. That's not nothing to the people in it. I am a Sandy survivor and kept my family alive near Princeton for days. I know. And it wasn't even category 1 when it landed.

  95. Actually, no, it's been exactly as predicted. Rain is falling. Tides are surging. Rescues are ongoing.

  96. A thought for all the weather/climate deniers - watch the video, read the article and perhaps rethink your belief that this is actually nothing.

  97. Every Hurricane back then was major. No one ever new what was coming. You could not even measure wind velocity with any accuracy.

  98. Julius,
    ...and also hurricanes now linger longer due to changes in ocean currents due to ice melting in the poles......

  99. Jake,
    Global warming has caused ice to melt at the poles (look at the many photos taken over time) and thus affected ocean currents. The result is that hurricanes linger a lot longer than they used to. Check it out.

  100. For once , let's thank the Trump Admin and Federal Gov. for stepping up their preparedness and at least pretending to care...unlike GW Bush

  101. Yeah, nothing like taking millions of dollars that were set aside for times like these from FEMA and giving it to ICE...

  102. Stony Brook University study states that the Florence large amount of rain is due to climate change. But, Florence reduced from category 4 to category 1 by the time it landed, because Trump pulled out of Paris climate accord.

  103. You do understand that those categories account for wind speed, not rainfall, yes?

  104. You do understand those categories cause different level of damages, yes?

  105. So if it rains less, is that due to climate change too!

  106. The republicans in the North Carolina legislature are directly responsible for much of the damage that will result from this. At one time we had a wonderful Coastal Management plan that was based on science, but that plan was gutted and ignored. The evidence of this is clear.
    Now the question becomes how can we hold the easily-identifiable players responsible for their crimes?

  107. I am worried about the open sewers where rivers used to flow that take the byproducts of intense agriculture to the sea. My father's strongest curse word was cholera and I worry that what we are about to see is a return of cholera and typhoid fever in the richest nation on Earth.

  108. Remeber the law our brilliant state legislature passed in 2012 forbidding the discussion and study of rising sea levels? Maybe they need to revisit that particular bit of stupidity and arrogance.

  109. The people who stayed should be forced to pay for their rescues. It’s insane that they ignored warnings for a week and now get to waste thousands of dollars because they refused to heed warnings. I don’t feel bad for any of them.

  110. true. there should be a cost to the citizen that must be rescued from a mandatory evacuation zone.

  111. right. if you choose to stay you will be billed for the entire cost of your rescue.

  112. American taxpayers will pay billions to reward irresponsibility by paying for the repairs. Gotta hand it to Jesse Helms and the rest of the racist southern coastal states politicians. They cemented in law that we will pay for the beachfront follies of rich white folks (while 20-30% or more of poor black residents live in poverty.)

    Every time a major storm hits our knee jerk reaction is to help "those poor victims." They're not victims --they're the same Tea Party Republicans who want to cut social programs, with their own hands out for Federal bailouts that inland America pays for.

    Trump will rush in for photo ops with his base, while our fellow citizens in Puerto Rico continue to suffer and mourn.

    The only people I feel sorry for in this scenario are those too poor, too disabled, too isolated to get out of the storm's path.

    Enter FEMA, too, for photo ops, while the Treasury starts cutting checks to rebuild beachfront mansions.

  113. Ed........one of my oldest friends lives near Whiteville, NC. She and her husband live on an old farm he inherited. They've lived there 25 years, raised three kids there. Before retirement, she taught grade school art, he taught high school art. They fixed up their barn to teach after-school art classes. They are not poor, disabled or isolated, neither are they "beachfront mansion" owners or Tea Party Republicans. They're just good people, and by the way, probably more liberal than you.

  114. There should be no such thing as flood insurance for beachfront homes of any sort. If you can afford to live at the beach you should certainly be able to afford the risks that it carries.

  115. Many of the areas flooding in NC are not beach front properties. There are a lot of poorer communities along the rivers in NC that are being impacted by the floods.

  116. Thank you NY Times for granting free access to hurricane coverage.

    Beaming wishes for safety to all Carolinians, first responders, utility workers and journalists in the storm’s path.

    I hope FEMA is more prepared this go round.

    Any word on the Marines at Camp Lejeune on Parris Island?

  117. Thank YOU for showing compassion!

  118. Hurricanes = Chris Cuomo in a wet t-shirt. Bring it!

  119. Many commenters are assuming people have gas tanks to fill up ahead of time. Impoverished Americans in communities everywhere don't have cars. They don't have internet access. Many have large families living in one location and elderly folks with health problems and no money to rent rooms. Unless they can find access to a shelter, and get someone to take them there in time, they get trapped. I too am short on sympathy for those who can easily leave but don't. Just keep in mind that it's not easy for everyone, and that the poor have unique challenges.

  120. WE had plenty of advance notice this time. Perhaps we should have home checks, sand bags and free shuttles. The able who stubbornly didn't listen to evacuation requests should pay for rescue.

    Noone should have been left behind. In NC or Puerto Rico. We know that the climate has changed. Fires, floods, storms etc are here to stay.

  121. One of the challenges being while you might catch a ride TO a shelter, I have not ever heard much about how you get back without transportation or money. Look at all the people who were stranded in Texas after Katrina.

  122. Speaking as someone who lived in hurricane territory for 23 years, I can tell you that the poor get lots of help from agencies and churches and local government when it comes to natural disasters. They are near the top of the list, after the sick, infirm and elderly regarding who gets assistance for evacuation and shelters. It is up to the poor people to educate themselves and to make the decision to take that help. Nothing in this life is "easy" for any of us, especially when it comes to dealing with natural disasters.

  123. Wow! That tax cut sure will come in handy now.

  124. It's tragic -- but alas, eerily appropriate -- that man is now regularly abused
    by climates he has wantonly abused (and condescended) for decades.

    I'll tell ya: Getting hit by a tree branch, or even falling off a cliff, would be terrible ways to suffer or die, respectively. But I'd wholly prefer these to having to suffer property destruction or death at the hands of natural forces that have done me in of my own doing.

  125. The Hurricane Center and its global modeling forecasters get better every year but the atmosphere is changing faster than their high speed computers can pick up. I think the forecast has been pretty good. The intensity dropped after the eye wall reconstruction failed. They said this was going to be mostly a rain event. The decreased wind velocity saved a lot of the coastal carolinas from storm surge.

  126. They called the intensity drop, and we don't yet know about the storm surge completely.

  127. It really bothers me when people who *can* evacuate do not. Even under a mandatory evacuation order, there are going to be people for whom it is very challenging to evacuate. They may be elderly or disabled, have nowhere to go, or not be able to afford to evacuate. I have nothing but sympathy for these people, and I think the government ought to do more to help people evacuate, as it would probably be more resource efficient than emergency rescues.

    Emergency rescues can be very expensive and require a lot of resources and manpower. They also involve rescuers putting their lives at risk. If you are capable of evacuating, even if it's inconvenient, you need to do so. If you evacuate and things turn out to be fine, all you experienced was an inconvenient couple of days. If you don't evacuate and the storm hits as expected, you will probably need assistance if not a complete rescue. This takes resources away from rescuing people who could not leave, and it risks the lives of more rescuers. Don't be that person.

  128. But then I wouldn’t have bragging rights about how I “rode” it out and get interviewed by TV stations when I’m 80 and posing as a rugged individualist.

  129. I was thinking last night that the Cajun Navy would come to help!

  130. South Carolinian here writing from afar. I was at the College of Charleston when Floyd, a category 5 at one point was out on the water. In reflecting on Florence, this must be the most monitored, and now recorded hurricane to ever hit the Carolinas. And yet, what will all the predictions, recordings, films, pictures, conversations, reports, articles, etc. mean, if the Southeast cannot see the bigger picture? That these traditionally red states are voting for the wrong politicians if they really want to begin to avoid a worse and worser case scenario for the future? This is not a reprimand, I have friends and family there and there are so many others in harms way right now. No, this is a sincere plea that the red states I know so well demand better from their elected leaders! Demand better policies from decision-makers about climate change that affects us all!

  131. As physics Nobel-winner Richard Feynman said, "reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled."

    But Republicans don't believe that.

  132. Republicans in the Midwest agree that if you don't like hurricanes, move away from shore! We all know it's nice to live by the ocean but you should have to pay for it yourself..People living there assumed the risk.

    If you want the government to protect you from storms, vote in people to raise your state and local taxes to pay for that protection.

    The Federal government should play in role in protecting lives and replacing infrastructure that's federal in nature.

    In addition, loans could be guaranteed to some extent to help states rebuild theirs.

    Replacing people's private property should be left to State and local governments and of course to the people themselves.

    It's President Johnsons fault! He got the federal government involved in these things. Bad mistake.

  133. This hurricane will go down in history as the greatest of all time; no other hurricane so far has left behind so much damage.

  134. "Everyone has a plan until they've been hit." - Joe Louis

    Some people plan for emergencies. Others procrastinate. Still others hold fast and hope for the best. Think of the three little pigs fable: One build his house out of straw, one built it out of sticks, and the third built his out of bricks.

    It's not about political beliefs. It's just human nature. First responders are grateful for those who built their houses out of brick, but they know full well they'll be rescuing those in houses made of sticks and straw. And they also know there will be yet others who have no say in the matter and are stuck in place for any number of reasons.

    I hope injuries and deaths are minimal and I wish residents in the path of Florence good luck in recovering from this disaster- and that your local and state (and federal!) EMAs will step up to the plate, along with organizations like the Red Cross.

  135. It doesn’t matter if your house is made of brick if you have a time 10 ft storm surge...

  136. I am so glad that the Feds and the Trump administration has stepped up days in advance to prepare for this hurricane. But it is a travesty that Trump did not respond to Puerto Rico in the same way-- waiting six days after it had already hit the island before they convening any meetings.

    What is worse is that this Administration is in denial about the impact of Climate Change as are many of Trump supporters of So. Carolina. They ignore this at their continued peril.

  137. Not to be additionally alarmist, but I think we need more information about the toxicity of water in flood situations. Flooding is becoming the new norm and many people (especially in evacuation situations) seem to think of it as primarily a drowning hazard. Some recent news reports have mentioned strong sources of toxicity such as piles of coal ash, pig feces at local farms, and under sink collections of insecticides. Those who stay in evacuated areas get heavily contaminated with the nasty water, and it also probably leaves a residue on floors and walls of flooded buildings. It may be that this topic is too gross for public discussion, but public health concerns about such things are recently making it into the public arena; e.g." the Big Necessity".

  138. You bring up an excellent point. There have been articles about the possibility of animal waste toxicity being in the water.

  139. Also all the "trash" of ruined belongings, carpets, wood, and other pieces and parts of buildings etc. that gets destroyed. A landfill nightmare.

  140. It hasn’t been published what altitude the stay behinders homes are at. It seems that anything lower than the 12’ predicted surge would be too dangerous.
    Also the increasing river cresting should be correlated to topography maps so citizen can know what they’re up against when making decisions to leave or not.

  141. I can never get over why people don't evacuate when it is mandatory. If they would request help (financial, logistical) PRIOR to the effects of the storm, 300 people would have not put rescuers at risk, and preventive cost would be less, as well as possibly human lives being saved.

  142. If they evacuated (like they should) who would take all the Schadenfreude pics and videos for the rest of us?

  143. Note: Hurricane Florence is still centered on Wilmington, and made full "landfall" (the center of the eye) not long ago. Have a look at its size and power: "Florence Continues to Lash Coastal Carolina: Record Surge at Beaufort, 40” Rains Possible" https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/Florence-Continues-Lash-Coastal-Caroli...

    See video and radar in main article before you claim it's all over.

  144. Anticipating the “'Longie', you're doing a heck of a job" . But knowing trump, he'll be taking the credit with "I'm doing a heck of a job."

  145. I do hope the good people of the Carolinas vote for candidates that will address climate change and against those that make silly laws that ban the term or spend their time discussing who can use which bathroom. Surely mitigating storm damage should be
    priority

  146. Why do you not have the deaths as the lede?

  147. I'm sure there is just one dead. The others can only be figments of some Democrat's imagination.

  148. More needs to be done for poor folks who don't have the ability or the cash to just up and run.

  149. Things are done and offers are made...on buses, with neighbors and acquaintances...some people will not go and should be told to write their SSN on their torso and every limb...

  150. Shelters, evacuation buses, so on and so forth - things are done. Is it enough? I don't know - but things ARE done.

  151. Was there any warning about this storm?

  152. There were warnings for days. People ignored them. Then at the height of the pandemonium they except to be able to click their fingers and have the police/fire department/paramedics arrive at their doorstep on demand. It's outrageously arrogant and selfish. You decided to stay despite the warnings, you were so confident that you'd be ok, then you should be prepared to fend for yourself if the worst happens.

  153. It's incredibly disheartening to read an infant child was killed. A tree fell on their house. Why in God's name were they in that house? If there's a mandatory evacuation and you stay with your child, that should be illegal. Child neglect. And now I'm reading over 300 people have been rescued so all those resources are being used up despite have plenty of warning to leave. I understand there are people with limited resources, but this is about life and death.

  154. Don't judge people for making a choice to stay where they feel safest.
    Maybe call them out for bleating about it afterwards, should they do so.
    But no, don't judge them yet.
    I'm a Brit and so have no clue about how brutal nature can really be but I'd probably stay.

  155. You're assuming the mother and child who died, and the father that was injured, were in an evacuation zone. They were apparently in Wilmington, and from what I can see that was NOT under any evacuation order.

    Heavy rainfall for an extended period can saturate the ground. Trees, even very large trees, that are more shallowly rooted are then susceptible to being blown over by wind. I'm well inland from the coast. Sandy blew through my backyard, and toppled the 40 foot tree belonging to my neighbors behind me. Fortunately, it fell away from their house; even more fortunately, when it fell across the street, it fell into a small patch of park, and not into someone else's house. Two other large trees in their yard, as well as trees belonging to my neighbors on either side, were fine. They are all different types of trees from the one that fell.

    I've seen trees topple in other storms. It takes a fair amount of rain, but less than you would imagine, certainly less than many parts of NC have already received - and more moderate winds than a hurricane can do this.

    It's very sad that anyone, especially an infant, lost their life. But so far it doesn't appear due to negligence in failing to evacuate.

  156. When people say they cannot afford to leave their home is that due to lack of transportation or lack of funds for a hotel?

    If this is the case then I would like to know if their town offered transport or shelter

    If they did then the people are putting first responders needlessly at risk. If their government really did abandon them, then they need to get out and vote.

  157. It's not so simple. For example, people with medical needs might not trust that a shelter will be able to care for them -- or keep their medications and equipment safe. Imagine having to stay in a cot in a room with a hundred other people with a bag full of opiate medication that you absolutely cannot get refilled if it gets stolen. People with severe food allergies may not be able to stay in a shelter at all without suffering a life threatening allergic reaction. And what about people with home dialysis machines -- you can't exactly put that in a honda civic. Even people who are oxygen dependent have to worry if a shelter will be able to keep their O2 flowing if they leave behind all their equipment.

    Other people may have been forced to stay because their work wouldn't let them take time off until it was too late to safely evacuate. Or they might have chosen to stay to care for friends and family who are unwell and afraid of going to the shelters.

    To be sure, most states do have plans for caring for people who have complex medical needs. But they are not good at communicating those plans, leaving vulnerable people to doubt that a shelter is safer than their own home. You're asking sick people to give up control of their own survival to someone they don't know, from an organization they might never have heard of. It's a hard thing to do.

  158. If you are seriously ill being in a shelter at least puts you where responders can reach you to help. You have a better chance than being stranded without electricity or clean water for days alone in your damaged home.

  159. I live in flyover country. My family was lucky enough to get to go with my husband this summer for a seed convention in Raleigh. We spent more time in the car to get to and from the ocean than we got to spend at the ocean, but one does not live in central Missouri and not go to the beach if you get that close and have the means. We went to Wrightsville Beach. I met two sisters who were walking the beach on their lunch hour. About my age, so 60ish. They told me about how they had grown up going to the beach with their grandmother. I hope they are safe, and that their beach recovers for them to walk it again at lunchtime.

  160. What part of "Get out" is so hard for people to understand?

  161. I have moved a great deal in my life so I honestly don’t understand the attachment to these homes and places. Sure, I would hate to lose my house...but losing your life is final! Plus, you’ll be in a place with no power and many hardships immediately after the storm. Don’t tell me they had no ride - they could have found one, or gone to a shelter...they could have been picked up.

    Grab your photos, pets, and paperwork and get out!! I know of what I speak having lived many years in SW FL. Your shelter and location are not your identity...

  162. The part that involves them losing everything that they have spent their whole lives creating perhaps?
    I suspect it's a ship and captain thing.

  163. Honestly is this storm really this important? On average 100 people die in car accidents every day in America. Over 37,000 per year. and more than double that in serious injuries. but oh no a big storm's coming in across the Atlantic Ocean like they do every year. My point is why are we so obtuse about car accident deaths but addicted to a big storm? We can stop deadly car accidents. But that would require Americans to give up their beautiful sexy car and settle for something that's actually safe. Also only one in four people in Southern California has earthquake insurance.

  164. We can safely assume any tragic, hurricane-related deaths counted after today will only be reported to make the village idiot look bad, right?

  165. It’s a good thing that climate change is just a hoax or this storm might have been serious.

  166. Will Trump consider ethnicity as a criteria for counting fatalities?

  167. Already does.

  168. it's a plot by the democratic party...nobody died and the storms lined up to hit the coast are not exacerbated by climate change--which is a fabrication of the Chinese! it's all a plot to make Trump look bad anyway.

  169. The truth is not the truth. No one died.

  170. People who stuck around without the means to evacutate - my heart goes out to you. I hope you are warm and safe as possible.

    To those able-bodied and stubborn people who stuck around because they thought it was foolish to heed the directives of informed authority figures, or just felt entitled to stay - why? What does this prove, other than you know how to put other people's lives in danger when they have to come rescue you.

  171. The decision to leave isn't easy - but there were many who could, who were not too old, did not have too many animals - and chose not to leave - because god, because they're sure the experts can't know what they're talking about, because global warming is a myth, because fake news, because looters, whatever. And when the rescuers are all busy rescuing people, and then overloaded so they cannot rescue everyone (as they are right now!) - every extra person who stayed represents someone who will NOT be rescued and may die.

    There are some reasons why people may stay that are reasonable - but there are plenty of reasons that are not reasonable, and when they need to be rescued, that's one less rescue slot for those people who had no choice but to stay. That's potentially one more death.

    I've all the compassion for people who couldn't leave, but none for those who could, but chose not to because they were sure they were smarter than everyone else.

  172. @C. Hernandez - Oh come on. We all know that Maria was a Beachfront Depopulation Gift from a Vindictive God. If the Trump Admin had responded in a timely manner, there would not now be so much cheap Puerto Rico real estate available.

    I predict that the minute their shell companies have all the beachfront they need, that there will be a big push for the federal government to pay for and install a first class infrastructure as recompense for all the hardship suffered by the people of Puerto Rico. Many of whom will no longer be around to benefit... But fortunately the new hotel conglomerates will make good use of it.

  173. You're making an argument that climate change or weather extremes is, or could in fact be, good for capitalism. And it could. It could efficiently erase problem (poor) people from many areas of the globe leaving their habitats and real estate to developers of all sorts.
    One hopes this would not be the dominant scenario of the climate related disruption to come. But without a fight for adequate social policy aligned to recognition of science based climate policy, it could be what we are left with as a greedy world.

  174. I'm making no assumptions about people making the decision to stay, but it does indicate that there is a lack of understanding of natural forces in a big general way. Nature does not calculate "revenge". But actions and decisions have consequences. We need much more science education. We need to understand the natural world and forces and processes in nature. And I would add as an example, that if a city like New Bern sits at a confluence of two Rivers running into a larger body of water such as Pamlico Sound,
    that there would be the highest risk right there and more caution would be needed and getting out of there a priority if at all possible.
    Evacuation has expenses and hazards too. And people are attached to their places. These kinds of problems now need to be realistically factored into community planning.

  175. I feel for all those who will suffer or already suffer the devastation from Hurricane Florence and all other hurricanes. I live in a region that suffers a chronic shortage of rain. I don't comment here out of a lack of compassion. I merely express my puzzlement at why CNN, MSNBC and, I assume, Fox (I refuse to watch Fox) feel obligated to show us hour after hour of reporters getting wet, standing in water and watching the ocean's rise. I don't get it, but suspect it signals the malady of television network groupthink.

  176. They do that with every hurricane. You should have seen CNN during and after Katrina.

  177. Not everyone can easily evacuate ahead of a storm. Others have pointed out that finding transportation and safe shelter is not easy for people without resources. Yes, you might be able to get a ride to the shelter, but once there you're at the mercy of the agency running the place. Will they keep you safe? If you have medical needs, will they be able to safely transport, store and set up your equipment and medications? Will they help you get back home when the storm ends?

    Also, not everyone's job gives them the option of leaving well ahead of the storm. Some jobs won't allow workers to leave until they have a mandatory evacuation order. The resulting delayed evacuation makes it even harder to get transportation and find a safe shelter.

    I don't have much sympathy for people who refuse to leave their homes out of pride and sheer stubborness. But I recognize that it's not so easy for many people.

  178. Lots of people in my close to the coast community have recreational vehicles, Winnebago's, to evacuate. I almost bought one while my aged mother was still alive. There is a city ordinance prohibiting them being parked in a driveway but it isn't enforced.

  179. I watch on the Weather Channel as the Politicians in the affected States show great concern for their Constituents and try to come across as leaders. True leadership would be for them to accept science and data. They need to be serious about climate change. They need to not ignore warnings about rising sea levels and allow development in at risk areas. Houston, the Jersey coast, etc, all allowed development without concern for known climate related hazards. Where were these Politicians then ? Since we have a President who denies science, data, truth and does not have an attention span or maturity to comprehend or deal with a complex world, we need others ( talking to you GOP ) to step up and show backbone to help decrease future risks to property and more importantly, to people. You are putting all of us at risk.

  180. A
    try building without a permit
    see where that gets you.

  181. Zoning is not everywhere people own property and many communities will have to zone city hall as in violation. The city Hall in my town has flooded several times. Now it's been rebuilt above the flood level.

  182. It’s pretty simple. You deny development that is likely to need rebuilding before its expected usefulness is done. Proper zoning. Frankly I think people who have built new in coastal areas subject to hurricanes after 2012 should not be able to get insurance for their idiot moves. The rest of us shouldn’t subsidize that. And states controlled by idiot politicians who deny warming and sea level rise, like the idiots in the NC legislature, who passed a law that forced the state to use a limited time window when evaluating risk to property and so encourage stupid development should not be eligible for disaster relief when they get a storm like this that packs a ton more rain because the Atlantic is warmer than it used to be. Warming is real, we caused it and we have to fix it. Two massive rain events in two years that blow away long standing rain records. This is a warning that we need to heed.

  183. Being new to experiencing an historic storm I bought water, filled the car with gas, shopped for food, cooked. I still feel everything I’ve done all the preparation , the ultimate outcome is out of our control. We have followed all the advice given. I’ve weathered many winter storms up north and have never felt so fearful. My family and friends keep texting so glad I just got back from a visit. Each night I pray every one will be safe. The water won’t flood us, the trees will stay standing.

  184. My thoughts are with all of our US neighbours who are affected by the hurricane. If you can’t get out get to high ground.

  185. "We’ve dropped our paywall on our storm coverage and will continue to have live updates."

    Thank you. I'm sure there are many people who appreciate this. I shared this along with the article on FB.

  186. Let's make sure we get the local counts of fatalities in synch with Trumps's count... I'd hate to see another disagreement of the sort we've just seen re: Puerto Rico.

  187. Why are we rescuing people who did not heed plenty of warning?

  188. A tragedy and, not be be disrespectful, but according to the Puerto Rican methodology analysis that means three hundred and fifty people will be killed and it is Trump's fault.

  189. Do not tell Trump that there have been deaths due to Hurricane Florence.

    He will not only deny it, but blame it on Obama and democrats.

    Any destruction or tragedy in the Carolinas are not due to climate change, but are part of a Deep State liberal conspiracy.

  190. In Tropical Far North Queensland, category four cyclones are a fact of life. The greatest danger is the storm surge which in the worst case can be up to ten metres (33 feet), or three stories high, on top of a king tide (spring tide). So when we bought our current home, I made sure it was at least twenty metres AHD (Australian Height Datum) above mean high water (MHW).

    Once, about ten years ago, we had a tsunami warning. My daughter was at work in Cairns which is only 1.8 metres (six feet) above sea level, built on mangrove swamps drained by the US Army Corps of Engineers during WW2 when Cairns was a possible disembarkation point for the enormous US forces gathering to retake the South East Pacific from the Japanese Imperial Forces.

    My daughter rang me in a panic. She didn't have a car or other transport. We gave her a lift to and from work. I advised her to go right to the top of the building which was fairly new, reinforced concrete, four stories high – which she did.

    Meanwhile, all the roads were chock a block with vehicles. Everybody was stuck in a traffic jam that was over twenty miles long, sitting six feet above sea level. There were car crashes. People were injured. They were sitting ducks, passively awaiting their fate.

    When the tsunami finally 'struck' Cairns, it was ten centimetres high.

  191. Yes Martha, there are actually people in the U.S. who do not listen to the radio, or watch television, or search the web, and who amazingly do not even spend their day glued to their cellphone. Their the poor.

  192. Years ago my mother and father were sheltering at a school building in a Galveston hurricane. The wind died down and when some boys came paddling by in a boat and asked if they wanted to go back to their house, they said yes. My mother said she was so glad to get there because they were in the eye of the storm and, when the back of of the storm hit, water "just started coming right in the front door, so I started sweeping it out hard with the broom. If I hadn't been there I don't know what would have happened!" So said the former Iowa farm girl.

    I didn't know what to make of this story, except that you face right up to Nature's challenges and sweep the water out the door. Lucky they didn't drown.

  193. I have been watching this storm and I just don’t get what the news is reporting compared to what the data shows. This storm is going to go down as the most over hyped of all time. Besides the outer bank there hasn’t been allot of rain. And really not even a moderate amount of rain. The prediction for the Cape Fear river is to be at 26 record shattering feet tomorrow yet it is at four feet now. ANd it isn’t raining there now and they really haven’t got much in that drainage basin all day. The Neuse is rising a bit but it is far beloww flood stage and it isn’t raining there much either. The radar show no purple, red or even orange for precipitation anywhere in the whole state. It is getting to a point where I just don’t trust the news about this stuff anymore. They have the access to the same info right now.

  194. In NC now-- and not in the storm's path. Many who were in it did not have the resources to leave and return. Several readers made comments about how people who did not evacuate should pay for their own rescue. But many proud people here did not have somewhere to go! These are desperate economic times. The Republican legislature and Pat McCrory (former Rep. Governor until 2017) who disgracefully refused to leave office even after defeat, have done everything they could to weaken unions and labor and weaken environmental protections and coastal health. So basically, people are without pension prospects and cannot miss work or they risk losing everything. It's a double bind in a natural disaster.

  195. I do not want to hear a word, in a tweet, or a Fox interview in which Trump complains about how hard done to he is.

    His house hasn't burned up, his home hasn't flooded, bankers didn't take his money and leave him with nothing to show for it. He doesn't care. Does he?

  196. My snowbird neighbors and classmates live inland, on lakes as is common in SC and they are scared to death. This is far from over. Save the postmortem and have a thought.

  197. At Steve Acho
    Sorry but...no.
    I’ve been on search and rescue teams. I live in Honolulu, HI where we have quite a few hurricanes, tsunamis, lava eruptions, earthquakes and flooding: sometimes all at once.

    I’ve been on MANY search and rescue teams living in the Islands of Hawai’i and in Utah (ski patrol, avalanches, earthquakes, lost and injured hikers.)

    BE PREPARED. I have “Go bags” which contain $2,000 in cash...because if the power is out and cell towers down debit and credit cards don’t help.

    I have ALWAYS kept my gas tank at 3/4ths and above--ALWAYS.

    Month’s worth of medications, lists of all finance accounts. Medical supplies, iodine tablets (purifying water), sleeping bags, a crate for my service dog.

    I have a PLAN on where to go. Governors have been giving warnings for DAYS on getting out.

    There is NO reason that you would be in gridlock and waiting at gas statIons if you had PLANNED AHEAD. I have lost good friends in the Honolulu Fire Department who do rescue out of deep jungle off 95 degree cliffs of the Koolau mountains. They need to rappel down 100 feet or rope. They also do rescue on the beaches--there are jet skis and long surfboards on their engines.

    When a catastrophic event happens--tidal wave (tsunami), hurricane, earthquake happens--animals literally head for the hills. Humans? They go to the beaches to WATCH. When a 60’ wave DOES drag them out it’s one of MY friends on HFD that has to rescue them.

    I’m NOT buying your excuse! Responders die!

  198. Good for you. If you have two thousand in cash in a bag (which someone can easily steal or even murder you for if they're desperate) , then you’re living on a different planet to the rest of us.

  199. Those of us who are getting through this hurricane we will survive. As a Filipino American who grew up enduring typhoons Philippines and hurricanes in NC, we will survive this disaster, help each other get back on our feet again. This is Fayetteville NC, home of Fort Bragg. We have endured through the best and the worst.

  200. Hopefully Trump won’t be throwing towels at people in a week. Tragic heartbreaking event and tragic President.

  201. Everybody has the right to refuse to evacuate or be evacuated, and the right to refuse to be rescued. Get a grip people. It's a Category Two hurricane, not the Second Coming, Armageddon or the eruption of Vesuvius.

  202. I lost my home in Irma a year ago this week. It wasn't my first hurricane and I had hunkered down in all of them and been safe. The roof gave way, something completely unexpected since it had been "repaired" just 3 months previously. I lost almost everything including all my work equipment. I'm still not recovered. I feel for these people as only someone who has been through a natural disaster can - people don't understand that it doesn't just devastate property, it devastates your life. You get very little help - what FEMA gives you is a drop in the bucket when you have to rebuild your life. I am thankful for the FEMA help, but truly it is inadequate. If you have kids or elderly in your home, you really should evacuate. There is plenty of time - you don't have to wait for the last minute and end up in gridlock. It can take more than a week to get power and phone service back - and might be even longer to get drinkable water. There will be debris everywhere, some of it huge and it will be need to be removed by power equipment.

  203. Global warming is stepping up. The Caribbean and our coast will get slammed more and more. God help us. The future looks hopeless with Trump at this critical time.

  204. The NY Times should be highly commended for not mentioning climate change once. In the end, that scenario will probably play out just like this rather over-hyped story.