Those who make the decision to stay in an evacuation area when they could leave, deserve no rescue that puts lives of other people at risk. It happens over and over again in hurricanes. "Leave.""No" "OK, now that things are life-threatening we're sending someone to risk everything because you wanted to feel like a hero." This is the height of vulgar self-centeredness.
2
I’m sure all the libretarians that live in the affected area will refuse federal help. I want to see them pull themselves up by the bootstraps.
1
I'm thinking trump will go all out to speed the recovery from Florence. After all there's an important election coming up and North Carolina is a swing state. Too bad Puerto Rico didn't have anything to offer him.
7
Decades before our recognition of "climate change," people who studied or lived/worked on the barrier islands knew that they were unstable, constantly in motion and being remodeled by wind & ocean currents. My great uncle ran a construction company in south Texas (think Corpus Christi/Padre Island); his comment re: building at the beach was "The ocean gave us this land and one of these days the ocean is going to take it back." Needless to say, he didn't build on barrier islands.
3
I hope that any houses built where it will obviously flood are not covered by national flood insurance. I’m tired of subsidizing rich people’s second or third homes.
5
Not surprising the news coverage over the Carolinas is greater than PR. When Hugo hit in 89 everyone ignored the USVI that was devastated by Hugo a week earlier. It is apparently more important news when white people are affected.
3
It had been widely hoped in many areas of the US that Florence would defy expectations, turn north, striking Washington DC with the full fury of a category 5 hurricane. This would give DC a visceral education about global warming. Theoretically, a direct strike--with a major stall out over the capitol dumping as much as 4 feet of rain--could even act to drain the swamp much as the gush of water from the toilet tank evacuates the contents of the bowl. Now, more than ever, DC needs a good cleansing rain.
I think North and South Carolina authorities (and voters) have been denying climate change. Am I correct?
10
You do understand that no one actually denies that the climate is changing? The question is the degree to which this is the result of human activity.
2
I'm a SC voter and I believe in climate change, as do most of my friends. Where are you getting your assumptions?
1
You must be very young. Right wing groups denied that the world is getting hotter until it became too obvious to deny. Google is your friend. You better hope that the change is caused by something mankind is doing because in that case we can stop doing it and maybe make things better.
1
Please follow up on Skippy Winner when Florence has moved on ... not only do I have family members to worry about in Florence's path, but that stubborn old man, too.
He’s just like the guy that refused to leave when mt st Helena blew up. I really don’t care what his fate is.
1
Another year, another round of southeastern hurricanes. Settle in folks this is just the first of the season.
Climate change has arrived and this is one of the bills to be paid. We’ll need to relocate and reengineer our southeastern cities to survive these storms.
2
"North Carolina lawmakers are facing renewed criticism for a 2012 law that effectively ordered agencies to ignore an increasing rise in sea levels driven by climate change. The law helped allow rapid coastal development to continue."
Anyone who decries the politicizing of these storms should understand that politics - arch-conservative politics - is making the situation worse by the day. Keep in mind that "coastal development" doesn't mean small apartments and public housing. It means large, expensive beach getaways, usually not the primary residence. In other words, rich people. That's who conservative politicians work for, so that's why they make sure they can build wherever they want. If you're one of those rich people, fine, you can decry all you want. If you're not, you've been had.
But this is reckless. While the owners of these properties may be insured, or able to sustain the loss, there are huge social costs that fall to the taxpayer, i.e., people who aren't rich and, for that matter, aren't even in North Carolina. The politicization of science and weather has been deliberate policy by the right wing. Wait a few weeks after the storm and see how congress underfunds the recovery, after public attention has turned to something else.
4
When I see clips how people stay put in the path of the storm in spite of urgent evacuation warnings, I am so frustrated and annoyed. Ignoring the warnings and later finding themselves flooded and isolated, they are only putting the rescue workers in grave danger. Besides the fact that they may lose their lives. Then come complaints that the authorities did nothing and not fast enough. I don't feel this is heroism or bravery. It is downright stupidity and the really brave, stoic rescue workers pay with their lives. Have'nt they heard of, " Better safe than sorry "!
21
From a category 4 to a now 2 while still 100 miles off shore, what are the odds that Florence will grace the Carolina shores as a Tropical Storm? In such an event, the storm surge will be less than predicted, the wind speeds and their destructive power much less. The only issue then is flooding from heavy rainfall. How soaked is the earth will determine the speed of runoff resulting in flash flooding. If your looking at the Ocean, the danger may be just behind you.
Its hard to see any climate change involved in tropical disturbance Florence.
3
"The only issue then is flooding from heavy rainfall."
What would enough to make you concerned?
I'm so glad that you have in your head the computing power of the forecasting models. You could make billions from that ability. Do you?
6
This is because you're not looking, didn't pay attention to the reports, don't know that there's a slim diff between Cat 3 and Cat 2, have no idea what storm surge and this amount of rain means, and are so ideologically blinkered, you'll take the fact that when Florence goes off warm water and heads inland, It will indeed, and as predicted, become a tropical storm as proof that you were right all along.
1
Now we get treated to that most ridiculous of all TV news weather rituals - standing out in the howling hurricane winds and rain reporting to us all how bad it is.
13
Carolinians; worry. FEMA killed 2900+ Americans in Puerto Rico. Do you trust anything Trump and Trump controlled FEMA has to say? Worry. Ray Sipe
12
FEMA killed them? Do you really think FEMA created a hurricane?
1
Can I just say how impressed I am that the Times is providing unrestricted access to its coverage on this. As a paying subscriber I fully endorse. In times of unprecedented need, it is in generosity that we all find salvation.
26
Old Glory's getting ripped to shreds on that webcam.
5
Donated my $500 to the Red Cross reponse. Sure liberals will follow suit.
2
Blue states already pay the bulk of the taxes that go to fund relief in these situations. You're welcome.
52
DR is correct. People in red states feed at the troughs kept filled by blue state people. We all need to financially support rescue and medical operations to help those stricken by the storm. It may be unpopular to say this but I won't give a dime to support rebuilding in vulnerable places that should never have been built up in the first place.
21
I am a liberal, but I don't have that kind of money. But I appreciate your generosity. Thanks.
1
For anyone curious about how commercial ships react to a hurricane like Florence, there is a website that tracks the location, paths and identities of ocean going vessels around the world. Want to know where a hurricane is? Just look for the areas of open ocean that ships are avoiding. You'll see many running for cover and others hiding out in protected harbors along the coast.
https://www.marinetraffic.com
8
I wish Carolinians luck. I have family in the area too. At the same time, hurricanes are among the most forgiving natural disasters ever. You've had a week to get ready for Florence. You might lose everything but this is not like New Orleans. Katrina was unexpectedly strong and the city suffered a major infrastructural collapse. If you're in Myrtle Beach right now, that's kind of your bad. There should be zero fatalities associated with this storm.
I hope Trump is listening. ZERO FATALITIES. That's the expectation. We've had warning. Anything less is abject failure. I know I'm setting the bar high but there's really no excuse. We're not talking about an earthquake or a tornado here. The probabilities involved are surprisingly narrow.
The rub of course is even a successful emergency response is still a failure. 3,000 deaths in Puerto Rico is a small island's own personal Sept. 11th. You don't get to take that one back. These citizens are dead. Even if we save every single Carolinian caught up in the storm, we still failed. The first criticism of a successful response is already written: Trump only cares about white people. He's earned that response.
24
I hear you, but most hurricane deaths occur AFTER the storm passes.
3
Is Trump ready to air his show of lies, misinformation and denials about hurricane Florence? I guess his team is working hard to twist once again the facts about global warming. By the way, this would be the right time to interview Scott Pruitt, just to know what is his idea about climate change and his work at the EPA.
11
This is not the time for political finger pointing
6
Disagree. This is exactly the time for finger pointing—when people are paying attention. When are we going to face facts about the dangers to coastal areas from climate change? When are politicians going to stand up to special interests? My theory is er won’t start talking about it seriously until insurance companies refuse coverage or start charging huge and fair premiums.
11
When is the time? After people are dead?
Oh, no, sorry, that's not the time either.
It's never the "right time" for dimwits and deniers.
13
I wish nothing but the best of luck for those in the Carolinas. I have relatives in Mt. Pleasant, SC, just outside of Charleston.
I have to ask this question, however. What will be the cause of most of the deaths which will unfortunately occur? Florence or the Democrats?
5
Side note : I really wish the media would stop interviewing people that are lounging on their deck drinking and playing cards. saying they are going to ride out the storm. Doesn't it send the wrong message, even though it happens every storm ?
I heard one of the interviewees describing how there were new canals that can handle another 2ft of storm surge. - meanwhile in some places, isn't the surge predicted to be 9ft and above ?
I mean. like really ...
33
Gee - I hope this storm doesn't cause Trump any inconvenience. Hasn't the poor man been through enough?
20
When I read early Thursday that Florence had been downgraded from a category four to a two, I thought, This is another thing we'll have to be thanking Trump for maneuvering as he saves the day yet again.
Who else can claim credit for doing a beautiful job, a "good news" job, after the last big blow sent Puerto Rico hurtling backward into the dark ages and stole some 3,000 souls? And all it took was the hurling of a few rolls of paper towel over the heads of American hurricane refugees.
It seems he's now blaming that death toll on Dem hype and the rest of the mess on PR for being an island out in a big sea and breaking its own electrical grid. I hope Carolinians are prepared to accept culpability for its own woes to come.
10
I guess the only good news for those in Florence’s path is that the first 3,000 deaths don’t count towards a disaster according to the Donald. Unfortunately for the victims and their families, every death will be tragic. Elections matter. Vote in November to help stop the devastation brought upon us all by the Trump storm.
22
Good point...I guess 3K dead Americans is just the deductible.
1
A Category 2 storm is still strong enough to tear off a roof that doesn't have sufficient bracing in the ceilings joists. Good luck everyone!
13
Good luck & stay safe
1
Look, Donald, can we at least just agree on how, you know, we need to do better this time compared to Maria? ...no, we can't agree on that, either? O--kay then. Wow.
4
Why not name all future hurricanes Donald (as in Hurricane Donald I, Hurricane Donald II, Hurricane Donald III, etc.), since it’s all about him anyway?
[Just a little aside. I’m at a relative’s house who has cable TV. (I don’t at home.) One of the Trump channels flashes the banner ‘Real People. Not Actors.’ with its lead-ins. Wow. That rocked me back. Wake up, fellow citizens.]
17
Can we all just agree that there is something seriously mentally wrong with the cowardly, sexist, racist incompetent known as the current occupant of the Oval Office, and just move on to other things. Every newspaper and magazine should have a separate column called Pathetic Lies Trump Said Today. Every radio and television station should set aside a couple of minutes in a single block of time to report what this ignoramus has muttered.
The White House has been seized by a corrupt family leader with no scruples and no innate survival skills. His twisted comments about Hurricane Maria, Puerto Rico, and the Democrats should be condemned by every Republican who hopes to win office in November. Believe me, the retribution is coming.
52
So glad the most dangerous part of this storm will have been the forced evacuation of millions, ordered in midst of steadfast hysterical media narrative that failed to consider history while ignoring storm data.
4
What's your point? Are you saying people should just stay put and take their chances?
17
Yeah, Mike of San Diego, paying attention to science is such a drag.
11
Have you ever lived in states that experience hurricanes? Most CA have not.
2
In a subsequent tweet about the number of deaths in Puerto Rico caused by Maria, President Trump denied that Maria ever reached hurricane status, asserting that it never got stronger than a tropical wave. He claimed that the extensive damage on the island in the aftermath of Maria was the result of deliberate vandalism by Puerto Rican residents who were attempting to procure undeserved Federal aid for the island.
And in a related tweet, President Trump denied that Senator John McCain actually died, claiming that his memorial service and funeral were staged by Trump's enemies in an effort to divert attention away from Trump. Trump added that if Senator McCain had actually passed away, Trump obviously would have been invited to his funeral.
33
Seriously?
2
No. Not seriously.
10
Tongue in cheek, clearly, but almost believable.
20
Please stop writing about those who do not want to evacuate.
News stories about suicides generate more suicides. Do not give these people any more attention.
10
Is this going to be another Hurricane Agnes?
1
So gang, if you're in the path of Hurricane Florence, you can rest assured that if your damaged homes, roads, electrical grids, health or life, in any way make Trump look bad you will be ignored, berated or your politics will be questioned. The Wizard of Crazytown only sees what he wants to see and you can't blame him. These storm clouds were evident when you voted him in. Enjoy the whirlwind.
20
United States Navy understands and accepts that climate has changed and that sea levels are rising. They have been making many changes to their bases to mitigate these changes.
If the Navy believes and we are funding them to prepare for the worst why are the rest of us not accepting the change in weather patterns?
Do you think the Navy is building bases like the Carolina coastline? Not a chance.
23
The military, the insurance companies, every winery on the planet...… Most of the developed world recognizes climate change for the problem it is, the only people who don't are the willfully ignorant followers of right wing politicians who are beholden to big polluters.
34
Even p45 had sea walls built around his Scotland golf course.
4
I fear that too many of the people who stay in the path of Florence's violence will be swept away like Harry Truman whose life ended near Mt. St. Helens when it blew despite numerous warnings to get out of the way before the devastation happened.
3
It is hitting all the States that support Trump and his efforts to kill Climate Control. So be it!! I am just sorry we in the North have to pay to clean up their mess because they don't tax enough. Texas has no State Income Tax but yelled for Federal Help when Harvey hit them. Cruz was one of the big supporters of de-funding FEMA.
38
Not all of us here voted for Trump. And the people who will be hurt the most by this storm are the rural poor, often people of color, because their housing is usually in the cheapest, most dangerous, low lying areas. Please don't wish them ill; they don't deserve it. Actually, no one deserves it no matter how they voted.
32
Thanks, Bree for countering the thoughtless statement “so be it”.
I live near you, but am currently out of the country. Stay safe!
4
Actually a large percentage of the commenters here believe that if you voted for Trump you deserve to die in a hurricane. It's pretty much what they say directly. or at least they hope you suffer a lot and learn a good lesson. Charming.
4
Good reporting....You had me until I saw this bullet:
"Here are the latest developments:....
• President Trump on Thursday falsely accused Democrats of inflating the death toll from Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico last year, rejecting a government assessment that the storm had claimed nearly 3,000 lives. Read more about the president’s comments."
What does what Trump says today about last year's Hurricane in Puerto Rico have to do with Hurricane Florence?
5
The past is prologue, at least with regard to human behavior. What’s unprecedented is the impact of climate change on life, human and otherwise.
12
Because FEMA funds have been diverted to build privately operated detention camps for unaccompanied minors coming in from Mexico, at a cost of $750 per day per child, Trump knows FEMA response to this hurricane will be woefully inadequate. He is just laying the groundwork to claim after the fact that all news about the aftermath of the storm will be "fake news."
6
While Trump might be more inclined to help the Carolinas than Puerto Rico, residents should be prepared for a less than 100% effective federal response. After all, Trump thinks FEMA dollars are better spent on building cages for children.
I wouldn’t be shocked if he declares that Hurricane Florence is a liberal hoax and goes back to whatever his latest con is.
7
The storms are getting bigger and more powerful. You can deny it if you want, but that won't change anything. We seem to spend a lot of time and energy tracking the storms, instead of tracking and changing our behavior that makes the storms more deadly.
27
@Pam - and there you have it ! (worthy of a shiny cup)
Got to keep those ratings up and selling the batteries and bottle water (a whole other argument that contributes to climate change).
you know ...
3
Pam, what if this climate change isn't something we contribute to significantly? Maybe this is truly a force of nature. We may need to try and adapt, but nobody stops this mother, Mother Nature.
Your question defies logic. I have no good reply to it.
7
So all the climate change fanatics are aware
There were devastating hurricanes 1000 years ago and they still exist today.
We did NOT create them
You may be giving mankind a little too much credit.
3
For all those willfully ignorant people out there, we know this. Guess what? Climate change is now making those hurricanes stronger and with more moisture. It really helps to pay attention, starting with what you learned in high school science class.
22
You are correct...we did not create them, we just made them worse.
Also we ignored reality and built up our shorelines with expensive houses, silly humans.
19
For those that think CO2 is not harmful to the air we breath put a plastic bag over your head for a few hours.
18
I am dubious that right-wing folks will ever, ever, even so much as seriously consider the science that says there are likely to be more of these sorts of very big, very wet hurricanes, or think about the common sense that says you don't keep rebuilding in areas that are inevitably going to blow down and flood, or wonder about why endless rebuilding is a good use of taxpayer money, or look for five real seconds at Donald Trumo's abject behavior on this and every other occasion.
I mean, a few years back there was a hiatus in Atlantic hurricanes and a jump in the number and size in the Pacific, and they said that proves there's no global warming. Arctic and Antarctic sea and land ice generally started falling off the table, and they said that volcanoes did it and anyway this small area of ice was increasing off Antarctica, so no global warming.
Now it's record summer heats, and winter proves there's no warming. Biggest storm ever hits the Carolinas, two or three storms are somewhere behind it, and no warming. Harvey breaks all records for rainfall, this storm looks set to do the same, and no warming--them lib'rul SCIEN-tistas said it'd be a Cat 5 storm (which they didn't) so no warming.
The only thing crazier is the crickets you hear, confronted with Trump's loony inability to handle the absolute slam-dunk of getting onna TV and saying a few reassuring things about government being there for everybody in the Carolinas.
16
13' storm surges are predicted. I don't care how hardy those "holdouts" are, some coastal and barrier island homes will be underwater. Evacuate now!
9
I will try to watch my language here but it just makes me sick when trump tries to shift the blame for deaths in Puerto Rico and blame everyone except himself and is crazy-town administration for things they caused. Some of those who die would have died in any major storm but the numbers didn't have to be near this high. If you can send the Navy to the middle east to kill people you can send the Navy to Puerto Rico to save people and help them recover.
151
The responsibility actually falls to the National Guard first. They are responsible for domestic humanitarian disasters. Seeing as Puerto Rico is an island. The Coast Guard is also partially responsible. There should have been a joint effort. The Navy doesn't have much to do with the immediate situation in Puerto Rico. US territories in the Gulf haven't concerned the US Navy since the Cuban Missile Crisis. I guess you could argue the Marines at Guantanamo Bay are part of the Navy but never say that to a Marine.
Anyway, the problem in Puerto Rico was ostensibly the port. There weren't enough docking facilities to offload supplies. If you're going to blame the military forces, you should blame the Air Force. We do have air ports in Puerto Rico. Very capable ones at that. The problem of course isn't the military at all. We have a very bad president. Puerto Ricans are brown and they don't have the right to vote. US negligence is the White House's attempt at retribution. I hope voter repay the favor.
6
Excellent weather and climate research indicate real changes occurring, and our understanding of hurricanes increases with careful monitoring. That said, it does not do any good when the president of the United States tweets defensive childish remarks about fatalities and braggadocio about FEMA and other governmental efforts. Extreme weather events are caused by a number of factors, including human; it's how we react and respond to them before, during, and after they happen. As FunkyIrishman pointed out in this comment section, we need to reassess how we cope with and adjust to these events, including long-range, progressive thinking, planning, and solutions, much like preventative medicine.
75
On Cape Cod, home insurance increased after new, gov't flood zone mapping became publicly available. Then these second and third homeowners demanded that the federal and state help finance their new, higher insurance rates. Yup.
Over half of the homes on the Cape are vacation ones, as it most likely is in the coastal Carolinas. Pay attention to see who gets bailed out first after this storm. It is never the year 'round folks.
23
And then our so-called "President" brags that he did a most magnificent job for Puerto Rico during Hurricane Maria, after seeing the results of studies that say there were almost 3,000 deaths there. Just this week we had the anniversary of 9/11, in which almost 3,000 deaths occurred. And Osama bin Laden bragged that he did a magnificent job, too.
18
@ Sam D -
The Maria study said there were a TOTAL of 2,975 deaths in PR during Maria. The study said that was a 22% increase beyond the number of deaths that would "normally occur" during that timeframe. So about 550 deaths could be attributed to the storm - neither Trump's "dozens" nor the Times's "3,000".
2
No, it didn't say that. Here's what it said "All told, they found, there was a total “excess mortality” of 2,975 in the months after the storm that could reasonably be attributable to Maria’s effects."
BTW, it wasn't the Times's "3,000." The Times didn't do the research for that study. It did one on;ly 42 days after the hurricane, and found that in only 6 weeks, the excess way back then was over 1,000. So even 11 months ago, The Times research showed twice as many excess deaths as your estimate of 550 claims. And in the ensuing months, the count of excess deaths has climbed to almost 3,000. Maybe read the article again. Or read ones in other newspapers.
3
I have friends and family in Wrightsville Beach and Wilmington, NC and they are holding their breath right now. My heart goes out to them as there is nothing they can do but watch the storm on TV and hope for the best. They left this beautiful area and luckily are on safe ground. I am praying for the people of North Carolina and want them to know they are not forgotten.
19
Your prayers are meaningless and will do nothing for them. The only thing you can do is start voting for the party that will actually encourage responsible behavior to help mitigate situations like these.
13
DR,
I must respond to you because I am a person of faith. I strongly disagree with you that prayer is meaningless. Faith can move mountains but unless you are a prayerful person you would not understand. I will continue to pray as I have been blessed. No doubt, prayer had a lot to do with my good blessings in life.
1
Get back to me when your prayers manage to save lives and build homes in the wake of these storms.
I've seen plenty of people of faith die agonizing deaths due to illness or become the victims of senseless violence.
So called people of faith are currently ripping children from their parents arms and polluting our air and water. You've been lucky but your luck won't help anyone else.
6
Let me say, I hope everyone stays safe and that the damage is minimal. Among other reasons, I have good friends and family who live in both of the Carolinas. On the other hand, North Carolina has been courting disaster along the coast for a while now. Even without climate change and sea level rise the barrier islands are an unstable, shifting geological feature upon which to build densely populated communities. How long can the rest of us be expected to bail out such determined refusal to accept scientific judgment?
90
Barbara, in a way I hope everybody stays safe too. But I find myself contemplating that perhaps huge disasters are a necessity to convince people of changing their habit.
In a very twisted way I find my self hoping for the biggest possible disaster so people begin to grasp man made climate change before it is too late.
And I do understand the twisted nature of what I wrote and the moral rat hole I find myself in writing this few sentences.
18
I hear you, J in Port Angeles.
Basic human psychology says that only when the pain is too great does change happen.
Don't be so hard on yourself; I'm sure lots of people have the same inner feeling.
5
"How long can the rest of us be expected to bail out such determined refusal to accept scientific judgment?"
Yes, especially when the electorate in these states vote for people who work as hard as they can to gut the agencies that are responsible for helping them out when things like this happen. Maybe if they had to pick themselves up by their bootstraps a couple times after getting hammered by disasters like this they would understand that the government does useful things.
As far as I am concerned anyone who ever made a joke about "I'm from the government and I am here to help" should be denied services after a disaster.
1
Please correct me if I am wrong, but watching the news for the last week. I can honestly attest that the collective freak out (especially from the press) in relation to hurricane Florence as opposed to treatment of hurricane Maria (Puerto Rico) is a ''night'' and ''day'' difference.
Read into that as you will.
After every storm on the United States continent (in particular hurricane Katrina) we finger point, chastise and are exacerbated as to how/why we do not learn the lessons of climate change.
It is the same as health care that if you see doctor regularly to prevent major health illnesses/conditions, then most likely your health is going to be better and cost less, as than just showing up at the emergency room time and time again.
There is no difference in this analogy and climate change.
First you have to be able to even say the words - for many governments (including the ones in the past of this current storm) have nixed the words from the public record. That is just putting your head in the sand.
Second, there has to be moves, and money spent, resources used, and policies enacted (like not allowing the continued building right on the beach) so that preparations can be made ahead of the more frequent and more powerful storms that are coming. - and they are coming.
Lastly, if all of the above is ignored, then we as a people must not condemn those that have not listened and say: '' they got what they deserved''.
We must work harder to educate.
125
FunkyIrishman in 2020!
1
@Karen (smile)
There are far more (if not all) Progressive candidates that are deserving of your support and votes than I. Thank you though.
4
Funky....when 40% of the nation is shamelessly peddled - and that 40% consumes - fear, loathing and cultured stupidity by the Party of Stupidity and Greed, the only lesson those cultish folks seem to grasp is a fatal one.
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid."
- Benjamin Franklin
13
Media-driven hype and hysteria are obvious with this storm.
There are many corporations that benefit from scaring people into buying supplies, fleeing, and otherwise being scared, very scared.
The storm is now a Category Two.
While it's true that Harvey was a climate change storm with unprecedented rainfall and longevity over land, I've watched over the years as fear-mongering and alarmist exaggeration have risen to the level of propaganda.
2
Run that theory by the people in Texas and Puerto Rico and get back to us. I can just imagine their response.
22
Ah. It’s all Home Depot’s fault.
18
Great, since they aren't really natural disasters can we skip having to pay for their multi-billion dollar clean ups?
12
I was just at Carolina Beach 2 weeks ago, we had such picture perfect beach and star gazing weather, and I wondered if we'd get through hurricane season with minimal damage.
Now, never mind all the machinations of our fool politicians, we here in this state, know all too well. What I'm struck by is people who won't leave--who have children. A criminal act. I hope all stay safe.
3
It's comforting to know the intelligentsia at FEMA don't rely on sophisticated technology but combine eating lunch and dinner with hurricane response.
See NYT article: 'As FEMA explained in a blog post last year, looking at data on which Waffle House restaurants are closed, or open with full or limited menus, gives a good sense of how the surrounding neighborhood has fared'
Good job Brownie!
9
After Hurricane Florence descends on the Carolinas and beyond and unleashes her wrath, prepare for the inundation of insanity from Trump, who will inflict his special brand of psychosis on the victims of the storm, blame Democrats for the weather, and deny that anyone was killed, injured or lost property. Count on him to make absolutely the most insensitive comments and to exacerbate what will be a very challenging time for residents in the Southeast. When we most need a consoler in chief, we get him. What a horrid pity.
8
Good luck to the folks in the path of this hurricane. Hope they stay safe and come out of it angry at the Trump Administration for taking us out of the Paris Accords and blindly reversing all of Obama’s attempts to deal with climate change. Trump can pretend climate change is a ‘Democratic thing’. It’s real, it’s science and people along the coast will pay dearly because of it.
16
I hope everyone fares okay. But just so we can get this out of the way now, do all the anti-government, drain the swamp folk expect us to clean, repair and pay for this?
34
Yes, they certainly do and they will scream loudly if it isn't done quickly and well. They will also refuse to thank the people in blue states who will pay for the clean up.
14
They rebuilt HWY 12 just before Hatteras about 10 years ago - a storm had opened an inlet, and I mean, a new inlet - dolphins were sporting on either side of the road, and the gap was a good 200 feet wide - I was like, let it go, don't rebuild the road, but that was never on the table at all. That inlet was FILLED in by the Corps of Engineers withing six weeks, it seems like..We all pay for the private property owners out there..
9
Can we offer them thoughts and prayer instead?
23
It appears that Flo will smack Emerald Isle NC. That would be ironic, as it is the home of Pat McElraft, the state legislator who in 2012 drafted the bill which forbids the use of climate change science by state planning agencies. Google 'Pat McElraft climate change'. Quick, Pat! Write a bill that outlaws hurricanes.
89
David Sedaris, on the way other hand, has a house there, too.
Good luck Carolinians!
Climate change is powering the increase in storms. It will get much worse. Trump/Republicans are in denial;we are strapped into the back seat of this run away car that is headed for a brick wall. Unfit for office; Donald Trump. Trump denies 2900+ people died in Puerto Rico. Trump claims Democrats inflated death toll from 64 to 2900+ to make Trump look bad. Trump attacked a mayor in Puerto Rico. Trump says he did an excellent job with the Puerto Rico hurricane. Trump is not fit for office. Ray Sipe
14
whoa now. Are you citing an article on CC in a journal that has been peer reviewed? I don't think so. Wouldn't have had time for that would we.
It's a climate model. And not surprisingly, a climate model run by climate scientists is probably 100% likely to "prove" their hypothesis.
Now, what we have had here is what was (according to the alarmed gasps from the MSM) going to be a cat 5 storm (or bigger) that would destroy most of the Carolinas, VA, a few other states (good news though, it would get rid of all those pesky confederate statues). Now it is likely to come ashore as a 2, maybe a 1 and become a tropical storm. Do you know how many tropical storms and hurricanes have hit the Carolinas since they started keeping track. A whole bunch. Many major hurricanes. Some in the 19th century. And who knows how many before that. So this storm -- it's strength and rain -- aren't due to climate change. Spouting that kind of garbage will never convince skeptics. It's a weather event and weather events are affected by all sorts of things, Like the Bermuda high that kept this storm heading for the Carolinas rather than maybe turning north and going over cooler waters etc.
And sure it's going to cause a lot of damage. A huge amt. That's because everybody and their brother (mother, sister, aunts, uncles, cousins) live by the sea. And things are more expensive.
Hurricanes are big bad and dangerous. I've been through 2. But don't use this as evidence of CC.
3
I was wondering which right-winger would come along and try to pull the ol', "You libs always exaggerate and I am gonna say stuff that didn't actually happened and anyway I refuse to understand probabilities and I sure as heck am not gonna pay attention to no pointy-head science and later I'll just ignore the casualty and damage reports thanks obama," card.
The news actually said that the storm would likely make landfall as a Cat 3 or 4 storm. Then the news said that whatever the Category, the storm was most dangerous because of storm surge and the rain bomb it carried, so don't attend overmuch to the category. Then there was reporting on evac plans, as well as the problems with overbuilding on the coast and the possibility that global warming was "turbocharging," hurricanes, especially in terms of the rain they carry ans the tendency to get very big very fast, then sit on a coastlne.
I'm not sure how to address the yelling from folks who refuse to understand things as scientifically simple as, "warmer sea surface temps tend to mean wetter, bigger storms," let alone why forecasters give a range of possibilities, not, "this storm will hit your granny's front door at 325 Eight Street with winds of 67.22891 MPH and rain at a rate if 8.223241 inches/hour at precisely 10:14:47 EST."
See also the absolute refusal to understand polling data that left half the Trumpists screaming that the MSM 100% guaranteed CLinton would win.
3
Says the guy who slept through high school science class. Warmer means wetter. A warmer ocean means heavier rain.
5
You should learn the difference between a weather model and a climate model before you start spewing right wing propaganda.
5
I am praying for the south carolina hogs..I hope they have all been moved to higher ground.
5
Speaking of hogs, why isn’t their effluent treated the same as human waste, in treatment plants? What’s with holding ponds?
I recall in the last big storm in the Carolinas that when these dikes overflow or break, it’s a horrible mess.
5
It is my understanding that Duke is more worried about their coal ash pits than pig poop. If I lived down stream I would be too!
1
And speaking of Duke energy, one of their executives in charge of hurricane preparations refused in an NPR interview to answer the question of whether or not Duke, under threat of penalties, ever fixed the flood gates to all their nuclear reactors. He refused to answer the question. Getting away with murder.
We should be thinking of the devastation that is about to hit the beautiful areas of North Carolina and the millions of people who will be affected by the after effects of this storm. We should be talking about the ways we can assist these people once the storm has ended and not arguing about climate change. Do you think those who left their beautiful homes and belongings in a hurry are dwelling on the effects of climate change right now? I hardly doubt it. They are wondering what they will be returning to if anything and how much it will cost them financially. This is playing havoc on their lives and that cannot be stressed enough. They have enough worries right now and I am sure climate change is not one of them.
7
Fair enough, but after reaction we need action. Always thinking only of the moment and never of the future only adds to the problem.
11
Yep. They shoulda worried about climate change about five years back, when the idiots in their state lege blew off reality to help sucker them into building a house on a sand spit on a barrier island.
And they should worry about it for the future, as I grow tired of subsiding their endless rebuilding in the same dumb place.
15
Intelligently discussing climate change 10, 5, 2 years ago counts as helping "these people." Their government opted not to. In fact, their government literally banned the discussion of climate change, in part to satisfy the real estate industry's desire to build in the path of this hurricane. But now it's gonna whine for that sweet, sweet federal disaster relief $$$.
Their failure to timely consider solutions to their problems is the issue. No one is saying that they need to be thinking about climate change *right now*.
Only a simpleton would pretend that this type of "havoc" is not foreseeable. Only a simpleton builds a 3 story house on a big sand bar. Know what sand does? It moves when it gets wet. Doesn't take a trained geologist to figure that out. Boo hoo hoo for your "beautiful home."
Signed,
Someone who grew up on the NC coast.
9
While the loss of property and the destruction of nature may be great, I am hopeful a loss of life will not result.
A sincere thank you and best wishes to all first responders and individuals who either remained behind and/or will be there to help and rescue those in need. Thank you for putting your lives on the line in order to rescue strangers.
9
The Republicans have to face facts at some point and either embrace climate change or change the laws that allow building in target zones and cost us all; either accept climate change or add to FEMA. Sadly, the GOP specialty is denial and kicking the can down the road to future generations.
40
Andy....Republicans and facts had a nasty divorce decades ago.
They are not on speaking terms.
103
Are you just learning about hurricanes because they have been coming for thousands and perhaps millions of years.
1
Are you just learning about why it's a terrible idea to keep rebuilding where hurricanes blow through every few years, in ways made worse by ocean level rise and sea surface temp increases fueled by the waya we're warming the planet?
Hinestly, it's like some folks have never even SEEN a greenhouse.
7
Enjoy Hurricane Climate Hoax, science deniers.
As we are seeing worldwide, almost every storm is more severe, carries more carbon-based heat, more water and more fatalities and property damage than in decades past.
This is what happens when man continues to pump trillions of tons of gas-oil-coal-fuel carbons into the atmosphere each and every year.
The solution is adopting and adapting to solar, wind, biomass, geothermal, tidal and other energy technologies instead of continuing to destroy Earth's delicate ecosystem with Greed Over Planet's environmental suicide strategy.
November 6 2018
Respect Mother Earth; don't rape her.
134
Socrates -- are you some kind of progressive sock puppet?
You're just wrong. Any increase in damage and fatalities due to hurricanes is because more people are building and living by the ocean --- and inflation. And the deadliest Atlantic storm happened in 1780.
Galveston hurricane in 1900 killed 7000 people.
And there is no evidence that hurricanes are getting more intense.
Facts matter. Learn some.
2
Ralphie Boy...I guess you're just much smarter than the scientists who study climate for a living, who seem to disagree
with your science denialism.
"As climate change makes oceans hotter there is more heat—more energy—available, so there is likely to be an increase in hurricane activity. That can be the size of the storms, their duration and their intensity."
- Kevin Trenberth, a senior climate scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research,
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-data-hurricanes-will-get-...
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180521131532.htm
12
You might want to tell the people in Texas about your theory that storms aren't getting more intense. I'd love to hear their response.
Btw, read the article about the construction in these flood and storm prone areas. Guess which party supported that foolish and irresponsible behavior?
4
"Hurricanes are normal"
Dimwit Donald declares
The Sea keeps getting warmal
No cortex ‘neath those hairs.
No control of methane
Or of CO2,
Don’s indiffferent in the main,
The effects we’ll rue.
46
Don’s indifferent in the main
He hasn’t got a clue
2
So, if you think about it: what would be the political, economic, or even psychological benefit or advantage to scientists in detailing and warning about the global warming and associated climate change that has been known to the American people for the past SIXTY YEARS?
We can easily see the financial and economic benefits of refusing to act on this scientific evidence; it's also predictable that big money and self-serving politics are often wed to "denial" of human-caused (lifestyle-based) climate change.
But, why would science be invested in lying about or fabricating solid evidence on carbon-based-/methane gas-based global warming, dangerous "greenhouse" gas emissions, melting glaciers causing rising sea levels, and the rest of the whole plethora of detailed data?
What could be the agenda of science in working to promote awareness about and create policies to address climate change? Hmmm?
17
"Both the volume and the geographic extent of those rains are likely to be 50 percent greater than they otherwise would have been because of climate change, according to a team of climate scientists led by researchers at Stony Brook University."
Oh, those pesky scientists. When will they stop throwing facts in our faces?
79
Funny, that's the point where I stopped reading the article. I guess we have a different view on global warming.
2
Oddly, that is the exact point in the article when I stopped reading.
1
Do you have a different view on gravity as well? Let us know how that works out for you.
11
Researchers have a model that assumes a particular "climate change" effect on storms. After running initialized data through their model, they find that... wait for it... the output of the model shows that climate change will have an effect on the storm! (Any implications of the actual storm turning out to be less severe than forecast to be summarily disregarded).
In related news, I have a carefully designed psychological model of climate induced human gullibility, into which I have fed the comments section of this very article. After carefully initializing the data, and then modifying the model runs to remove the programmed climate change effects, I now have a counterfactual analysis that clearly shows both the volume and and extent of fervent nonsense in this comment section to be at least 50% greater than they would otherwise have been in the absence of climate change.
I await my honorary degree from the Stony Brook University's Department of Circular Reasoning and Unverifiable Counterfactual Data.
5
'Funny....'
Now. Does that mean, then, that we should simply continue doing what we have been? ....continue to pollute the planet because 'climate change is a figment of our imagination'? You don't seriously think that all our behaviors must have 'some' type of negative effect on the planet? The polar caps have suddenly decided to start melting, 'just because'?
6
Here is the thing dear "Reacher". Researchers state something that your are uncomfortable with; thus you conclude that the researchers are wrong. On the other hand you feel comfortable with stating that researchers are wrong because you are more confortable with that. You probably will have a hard time to get your PhD with that circular argument.
Scientists use the modeling approach all the time with tremendous success. As an example: Einstein created a model of gravity. Using the model he explained the perihel of Mercury. You could argue that he created the model carefully to explain the perihel which could not be explained to that date. But he then went ahead and made predictions that nobody had - such as bending of light during a certain constellation of an eclipse.
So it is with Climate Research. We have a model that simply begins to explain facts that are otherwise hard to explain; thus we attribute it some level of truth. And yes - it is complex, and yes there are many parameters that contribute to a specific storm.
As you live in China (perhaps Bejing) you might deny that the there is smog caused by pollution. Thus you may want to go for a hard workout outdoors daily because there is no smog.
6
You noticed, as everyone who is watching, noticed that Florence is now a Category 2. This is good for the Carolina's. I am glad her circular wind speed is not as fast. This demonstrates to me that predicting any particular weather event is still not a sure thing, as every was. I believe the chaos I see in the movement of the clouds on NOAA's Hurricane Center indicates it has become more difficult to predict what a particular weather event will bring. Hurricanes seem to sit for longer over land, as Harvey did in Texas last year, causing more severe flooding. It is no longer mainly the circular wind speed but the amount of water in the storm and the rate of speed forward of the storm which cause severe damage. Read more; study science instead of assuming you know what science and scientists are about.
Scientists do not assume. They observe, make a hypothesis then test if what they hypothesized is real or not. Then, after testing this hypothesis over many years by many different scientists, reach a consensus that this, whatever has been tested, is most likely is true. When new evidence arises to support or contradict it they take another look. Are you part of the scientific community devoting your life to finding out what is true no matter whether the outcome is your preferred outcome or not?
4
Check out Frying Pan Ocean Cam on YouTube. Live-streaming from 34 miles offshore. As someone said "Baton down the hedges!" (sic)
15
Thank you. And very impressive too!
3
Don't you just love AutoCorrect?
I wish the media would stop paying attention to holdouts. I can only imagine publicizing this behavior normalizes it to some extent, possibly leading to more holdouts. What's the upside aside from semi-compelling storytelling? This is not information people need to know.
8
Funky Irishman and others - I'm not discounting the dearth of response to Hurricane Maria, but I think one reason there's more media pre-coverage about the storm in the Carolinas is that, with a slower moving storm, 40 inches of rain are expected to fall on the Carolinas. Hurricane Maria dumped 10 to 20 inches on Puerto Rico. What the media missed with Puerto Rico is that, with much more fragile infrastructure and less governmental support from this administration than Obama's, the long term impact would be so devastating.
13
@CSA
True. I think we need to get past the finger pointing (said as much in me comment), and just deal with the facts, data and science. It's hard to when the government is moving around FEMA dollars to pay for baby jails.
There needs to be collective effort to prepare, deal with and come to acceptable solutions as to how to mitigate the destruction, the pain/loss and the costs. The costs especially cannot be continuously downloaded onto the taxpayer, if there are not going to be preventative measures. The people that have lost their homes cannot be continuously made ''whole'' if they continue to rebuild on sand/the beach.
There are plenty of people that are willing to have serious discussions about it all, but there are too many (or too few in power) that are not willing to listen.
Tis' a shame...
7
Agreed...and Trump's baby jails are housing more children than ever in our history.
There's no long-term planning to address the impact of megastorms in this administration because that would require, first, acknowledging the role of climate change, and then re-regulating the corporate chemical and methane dumps that Trump just deregulated to appease his donors.
7
Let's probe some fundamental logic, that a 2nd grader could follow but adults apparently not.
There's this sandy area right next to the ocean, called a beach. It's sandy because the ocean waters have been there before, right? So we build houses and apartment buildings on the sandy area with the expectation that the ocean will not go there again?
Isn't that like laying down on the freeway in light traffic conditions and then being surprised when we get flattened?
This is not rocket science or university level meteorology. If people insist on building on the beach, let them. But let them pay for the consequences too.
64
You mean like earthquakes?
And fires, and tornadoes.
This is not unique to North Carolina. Every coastal community has their own version of science denial leading to unacceptable risk to life and property. New Orleans’ real estate special interests have led the way to setting Base Flood Elevations (BFE) at up to 6’ BELOW Katrina’s high water mark. So much for increasing storm surge due to climate change. How does this pro-development risk show up in your town?
63
@ Konrad C. King -
Developers only develop what individuals will buy. And individuals buy because the government backstops their risk with taxpayer money, a la the banks a decade ago.
Cancel .gov insurance backstops, make these folks buy insurance at market rates, and watch development stop due to honest market forces.
47
The unhinged main stream media is already writing their news articles saying that they disapprove of Trump's response to Florence and it hasn't even hit yet.
3
@P
It is not about the response friend, but about the preparation. How can anyone adequately prepare for climate change if they cannot even say the words ?
I will patiently wait for an answer.
167
As Rick Wilson pointed out on a news show last night, a good president facing a national emergency like a hurricane would underpromise and overperform. Trump is doing it backward. A good president would also admit that he's been wrong about climate change, create an advisory group on how to deal with it by calling on all the best scientists from NASA, NOAA and our top universities, and stop diverting funds from FEMA and the Coast Guard to finance internment camps for immigrant children.
60
Inhinged is exactly what Trump supporters are. Nothing has happened and you are sure what MSM will do. That’s unhinged. The MSM will report what happens. Period! That’s their job and they are doing it as best they can.
You blame the media for the negative reporting on Trump - again they just report what is happening. Trump is perhaps the least prepared, informed and effective person to hold that job. Even people in his OWN Administration say that.
Blame Trump. Blame Trump supporters. Don’t blame the real journalists- they just report the facts.
24
Hopefully no one is killed and damage will be greatly under the estimated toll.
Taxpayers should not be paying to rebuild on barrier islands and other areas that are known to be prone to flooding from these storms. It is not safe or practical and storms like this can do Billions of dollars in damage. Government continually bailing these areas out is not sustainable - Storms are getting more intense, and sea levels are on the rise (no matter how deep politicians burry their heads in the sand on the issue).
Stay safe Carolinas !
90
Storms like Florence will eventually convince politicians in the Carolinas that climate change is real, because the voters will replace them otherwise.
35
I so hope you're right. In 2012 our brilliant Republican legislature passed a law asserting that the topic of the rising sea level could not be mentioned, discussed or studied by the state. That's the kind of ignorance, arrogance, and stupidity we're dealnig with here. Wish us luck!
116
Sadly, I'm not so sure. You need to understand the cycle of land-development and sucker-fleecing. People from elsewhere want to live in a beautiful cottage on a sandy beach. The big storms just generate business and recycle the worst properties so that new suckers can be fleeced.
If you are in the sucker-fleecing business this storm is manna from heaven. Armies of people will make a lot of money doing overpriced repairs. The properties of the really busted will get sold cheap. Scraped off the lot becomes fodder for the next cycle.
And a great deal of it is paid for by all the suckers of America, the ones who pay the bills for NFIP. It's 36 B$ in the hole, right now.
There's a reason the NC legislature is in the pocket of the coastal development industry -- it's where the money is.
11
Please take care of yourself. (It is high time that we have representatives on the state and federal level who put greater value in human beings than in catering to the corporate elites.)
1
Please pray and hold good thoughts for all of the people in the path of Florence. This storm will be devastating to a large area and a large number of people. Storms don’t discriminate.
22
Sally ... I'm really sorry to say that reality does discriminate. Those who are careless, or depend on fantasies to ignore it, find out that the very definition of reality is that it has real consequences,
Matthew 7:24-27
“Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”
2000 years ago the ordinary people knew the basis of Jesus' parable.
6
Echoing what Lee Harrison says: Storms DO discriminate against those that build in their path. We can differ on the level of risks somebody wants to assume. I live in an Earthquake prone area and I know that it is my fault if my house gets crumbled in the next big one. What do I expect from society to recover the remains? Nothing!
4
Who says I expect anything? I have Hurricane insurance and flood insurance and do not live on the coast. We specifically bought in a “no flood” zone but that does not mean that nothing will ever happen to me. The 20 inches of rain poses more of a problem to the Carolinas than anything. Are we to blame for living where it rains? Are farmers to blame for farming where it rains? I’m from general NY area but NYT readers seem to be getting nastier and more judgmental every day regardless of which party they are in.
2