Ask a Trump supporter to do their best to describe or define a liberal, you will get an unreasoned, emotional explanation that sounds like it came from an angry ten year old.
13
Professor Storey,
Please let me extend to you an invitation from Massachusetts. You are welcome here. We have a much smaller percentage of Trump supporters per capita. And you won't be demonized for speaking your mind. We argue quite a bit. We're generally nice to folks who have differing opinions. We have our share of idiots and fools - what state doesn't? But I do believe you would feel comfortable here.
Also, we have lot's of employment opportunities in education. Lot's of schools! Lot's of brewpubs! Think about it. A world filled with educated, thoughtful folks who love to debate and don't need to hate.
Of course, Texas needs you to help it turn blue. But it's not OK that you can't pursue your chosen field of employment just because you want to hold politicians accountable. That is unAmerican.
6
During this midterm election season, make a note of which houses display the opposing party's election signs. You'll want to know whom to blame when either China bombs us, or the nukes start flying.
1
What does it mean to be an "American"?
To most of us, it means swearing allegiance to a set of beliefs as set forth in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution (particularly the Bill of Rights) and in subsequent inspirational words from our most revered political leaders (such as Abe Lincoln's "better angels of our nature" and FDR's "Four Freedoms" speech).
We understand that America is a land of immigrants. We believe that no matter where your ancestors came from or what your religious beliefs are, we are all Americans together ("E Pluribus Unum").
We believe that Americans are a proud and independent people - but also a people who would give the proverbial "shirt off their back" to help a stranger in need. And we believe that this spirit of generosity, equality, fair play and inclusiveness should be manifested in the laws and actions of OUR government (The New Deal, Medicare and Medicaid, AFDC, SNAP, etc.).
But now we've discovered to our shock and dismay that roughly 40 percent of our fellow citizens don't share any of these values.
They believe that "real Americans" are only white and Christian.
They believe that today's immigrants (unlike their ancestors) are subhuman "animals".
They believe that "might makes right" (ask Mr. McConnell about Merrick Garland).
They believe that taxes are for suckers.
And they venerate a vile bigot and demagogue who the rest of us knew was a blowhard and a fraud long before 2016.
These are not the "Americans" we know.
25
It’s tough for me to get around Trump’s racism. As a result, it’s tough fir me to be friends with anyone’s— including family — who supports him. Why would I befriend a racist?
17
My fundamentalist Trump-supporting relatives informed me that Hillary Clinton is "worse than terrorists" and is working with Satan to bring down America. We still invited them to Christmas dinner. But you say Democrats are more likely to fuel the partisan divide? Hmmm.
9
Once you truly care about the relationships you foster, you realize continuing to foster that relationship is more important than “feeling right.”
8
“Liberals, please continue on I-40 until you have left our GREAT STATE OF TEXAS.”
For seven years I drove I-40 back and forth between Saint Louis and Los Angeles twice a year and always stopped in Amarillo, a parched nondescript bit of urbanity, to spend money: gas, food, groceries, sometimes a night in a hotel. I’m thankfully released forever from Saint Louis and won’t be driving I-40 in the near future but this billboard wasn’t there before. It shows me what a hateful place Texas has become, so unlike the civilized welcoming place it was in my childhood.
I’ve been through the panhandle countless times, across the widest part of the state via I-10 several times. Went twice to Houston to check out NASA’s JSC. And who hasn’t done Dallas? Heck, my parents met and fell in love in El Paso and as a child I went there often with my family to cross the border to visit my aunt in Juarez.
But if the “Great State of Texas” thinks it’s okay to allow its citizens to treat its liberal money-spending guests that way, I’m done with Texas. Yea, you may think it’s “funny” or free speech but it’s not. It’s blatantly aggressive hostility directing me, a liberal woman driving alone, to avoid your state at all costs. Why should I plan a trip through a state that so blatantly advertises its hostilty toward me? I will never again set foot in it unless I’m forced there through an airport layover. Even then, I’ll bring snacks so I won’t have to spend another penny in Texas.
14
Political anger is not the primary emotion that motivates and
divides individuals and communities - it is the selling of fear,
resentment, and race hate that is deeply dividing America.
The right wing have always used racism to sell their policies,
but in the era of Fox who uses racism and hate as a selling product, and Trump uses these deep and dangerous emotions
in a society that has never really been at ease with its racist
past and history.
The language of racism and hate has been couched in euphemism and rejection of black and brown people.
Extremists know that fear and hate are emotions that can control the way that people respond to political messages, and the process of hailing individuals into a way of thinking and seeing the world.
Racism is more than just a hatred and fear of people of color,
there is a political biology that manipulates people into believing that whiteness is all about biological superiority,
and that black, brown or any other color or culture is biologically inferior.
This ideology of biology was the product of German Nazism
who peddled that Jewish people were biologically inferior and therefore were not human, and they could not marry Germans, and could not hold positions of power and influence.
This is what the slave owning society of America believed in,
until the Civil War began to change this repugnant belief.
But African Americans have always been excluded from the main stream of American economic and cultural life.
End this now.
5
I just wonder when someone will end this misery!
3
Democrats, my party, have boiled things down to "You can prosper if you vote our way". All the rhetoric about recompense for hypothetical women or Blacks hurt along the way by the extraordinary success of our democratic capitalist system is about to be put to the test. Will voters opt for a bountiful market or for a handful of policies that would empower Federal bureaucrats to go back to their playing with other people's money
3
It's one thing to disagree with a friend, co-worker or family member but it's a whole 'nother thing when they embrace values which promote hate, racism, ruination of the earth, war, white supremacy, greed, and extreme self-interest. I can't respect that so I can't honor the relationship. It becomes self-destructive at that point and we don't need more destruction in this world.
11
Frank Luntz is one to tut-tut about divisiveness! Arguably he launched the whole problem in 1994 when he gave Newt Gingrich his famous list of loaded words to use to disparage Democrats.
6
What I find fascinating is that 3 times as many liberals as conservatives have stopped talking to a friend of the opposing political affiliation according to this article. And liberals say they are the party of inclusion and tolerance? Poppycock.
14
What we need is a good old fashioned civil war...or that is what it seems like we want!?
2
Had a older cousin who posted pro-Trump, anti-Democrate/Obama all thru the early part of the election. It was my pipe line to what the Trumpies were seeing. She quit after more information came out about the Russian involvement in "disinformation" rather abruptly. A couple of my favorites: to the effect "did you see what terrible thing Obama said?" and when you went to the site it said Obama gave a speech. It didn't say when, where nor what he said but of course it was terrible. The other was set up the month before in Macedonia. It was amazing what people would believe based on well nothing.
1
Putin and his troll army got precisely what they sought: deep and unbridgeable divisions among the American people. I have gotten in heated political conversations in the past but I cannot, for the life of me, understand how any thinking person could support the loathsome and irredeemable criminal who currently occupies our nation’s highest office. Support for him and his amoral agenda is an utter dealbreaker for me.
12
If you have a friend that supports a president that routinely insults you, is this person even a friend? It seems that they indeed thought little of you all along.
For all the sadness of these fallout, better to know who your friends are sooner rather than later.
2
The people used as examples in this art strike me as immature and close minded. Time to grow up. Learn how to communicate. Realize that whoever is President really doesn’t affect your day to day lives.
6
We currently have the worst president in history.His supporters simply refuse to believe any of the facts that prove this assertion;they will literally become enraged at the mere mention of such facts.The rest of us,including many conservatives,are horrified.So:this is not a case of “liberals”and “conservatives” refusing to coexist peacefully. The problem is far more basic:how can rational people “maintain a dialogue” with a group that prefers to reject rationality?
One more point:to call Trump,his fans,or the spineless legislators who obey them “conservatives”is absurdly misleading. “Radical know-nothings”?
“Half-conscious neofascists”? I admit it’s a tough one.
5
All you have to do is read the commentary to this article to know who is responsible for the division in our country. Democrats can't get over losing the easiest political lay up in modern political history and condemn anyone who supports Trump as stupid, racist, misogynist, etc. In the course of their unending tantrums, Democrats have demonstrated how truly unfit they are to govern.
6
Well, how can you associate with a trumpanzee? What's the point? Wouldn't it be fake anyway? I ghost all trump supporters, both family and former friends, and I'd question your thought process if you didn't do the same.
5
I look at Trump voters and see people who represent values of a country I do not want to live in. And it seems clear that when they look at someone like me, a gay Democrat, they also see someone whose values they do not want to live under. I would seriously consider splitting the country so we don't have to have anything to do with each other. Good riddance. But then again, if I were to live in the new Blue country and ended up with a federal government modeled on San Francisco, God help us.
4
FOX "News" has played a major part in destroying bipartisanship at every level ever since it was founded.
7
We certainly are in a very bad place thanks to trump. It's because of him that our once great country has become so divided. Yes, the country was divided when Mr. Obama was elected but not like this.
We must stop this egomaniac before he totally ruins us.
It comes down to this: ALL Democrats, Republicans, independents and all people of good conscience and integrity, no matter what party you signed up for, who love our country, who have high morals and ethics must vote in all local and national elections. Sitting back and letting the "other" person do it is a sure vote for trump and the GOP. We must NOT let this happen.
If the GOP isn’t ousted this November it will make trump even more dangerous. He will consider it a green light to do whatever he wants and we will then be on our way to becoming the Dis-United States of Russia.
No, that won’t get rid of trump but it will be a big step in the right direction.
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN - DUMP TRUMP and all of his buttkissing sycophants in the crooked GOP!!
3
Would it be different if the GOP Congress did their job?
4
Odd...no mention of the media monetizing rage to feed its clickbait addiction. In this (narrow) regard, Trump could be on to something that the press is the enemy of the people.
4
Only Martin Luther could truly appreciate what's happening in America today--or perhaps Robespierre. Either way, Neo-Marxists v Alt-Right--quite the sideshow.
But point of fact, Stalin's crowd killed many millions more--and looking to again, it seems, or perhaps, just a few thousand gulags for those who refuse the Berkeley "free-speech" Maoist reeducation university camps? Only Solzhenitsyn knows the answer for sure.
2
Bush 43 and Cheney and company are the biggest disaster in modern history affecting the people of the Middle East, but Trump and company are the biggest disaster in modern history affecting the people of the United States. It is a valid question to ask whether the Republic can survive the incompetence and treasonous behavior of Trump and his genuflecting sycophants in the Republican Congress.
3
Sorry...if a person came into my home and revealed that they support this horrid lunatic, I would immediately usher them off my property and tell them never to return.
This has NOTHING to do with a difference of opinion. When someone is supporting racism, bigotry and hate and the poisoning of our environment, that is not an opinion. It’s a lack of any decent moral code whatsoever.
I don’t associate with immoral people nor do I wish to have discussions with them. And I definitely don’t want them anywhere near me or my family
I am stunned that there are so many hateful people in this Country... I thought I was living in a Country where the vast majority had decent values.
If I was younger, I would leave...instead I will stay here and fight this evil.
8
Well if you cant find 4 or 5 stories in a country of hundreds of millions - I mean who couldn't?
Trump likes the hate. He feeds off it. For those who feel the obligations of being a citizen there are going to be confrontations. That is inevitable if you value not lying, etc.
1
This divide is the Rubicon, because it isn't about "politics," tax rates, differing governing philosophies. It's about simple decency and character. It's about whether lying, racism, prurient behavior (and coverup payments), vicious bullying and cowardice are acceptable in our president.
Anyone who thinks it is--friend, neighbor, co-worker, relative-is not someone I will abide.
7
Which came first, the anger or the political division? Conventional wisdom would say the division. But what if the anger came first, and political division is just its convenient vehicle for expression. What would that tell us? Maybe that something much deeper is at work, something we cannot identify. Or worse yet, something that we can identify but cannot bring ourselves to acknowledge.
2
One more indication that people who want to survive will learn to bend their heads down and hope they don't get shot at. Fortunately, it is still only one's livelihood; one can walk away with his/her life -- though not necessarily his/her livelihood.
Since what goes around comes around, is this the direction we want to go in this nation?
There are dozens of Trump books and 3 cable networks are 24/7 Trump (one pro, two anti). I voted to HRC but don't hate trump as much as many in Conn. I leave the room when any cable show comes on and only watch CNBC or Bloomberg for my "news". Many are making money and just phoning it in.
2
As I recall the election of 2004, and even earlier elections, this is nothing new. The political elites have been doing this for a long time, getting people riled up over politics to the point of acrimony pushing them to dissolve important social bonds. A frayed social fabric strengthens their power. It is the job of the populace to resist these attempts at manipulation.
6
Ugh, this article is classic false equivalency.
There are facts and there is Trump. It has come to that. Trump supporters are either ignorant, greedy, or racist or some combination thereof. How else can one defend a person and a party with no foundation in reality?
As others have pointed out, rational discussion is only possible when BOTH parties have at least some grounding in reality.
10
"you might be accused of being a racist or a socialist."
One of those things is a deplorable trait which perpetuates the economic and cultural subjugation and physical violence against people of color, and the other one is a political idealogy. That Mr. Luntz views them as somehow equal insults is telling.
4
"A harmless gloat.." Harmless to whom? One of the unifying traits I see with stalwart Trump supporters is obliviousness to others' feelings and "winning" at all costs. And now they whine because they've alienated themselves? Oh when does their self-centeredness ever end or does it go on and on like a snake devouring its own tail?
2
Three years ago, a woman I knew only through a crafting website, told me she was planning a cross country trip and wanted to visit my home. All right I said and proceeded to clean the house thoroughly and buy $100 worth of groceries for a special lunch.
While this woman was here, her ultraliberal, PC husband grilled my husband on the news sources he relies on. Then he turned his ire on me and accused me of being "motivated by fear." Since this man was almost 80 and in questionable health, I smiled and said nothing. But as soon as they left, I vowed never to have anything to do with them again. And I haven't.
Up to that day, my husband and I had been lifelong Democrats. But being insulted in our very own home by an arrogant, self-righteous guest convinced of his mind reading ability and moral superiority was the last straw. Thinking about it about that day still makes my blood boil. It has also made me wary of the Democratic Party.
7
Those still willing to fight for the unsupportable, Donald J, Trump, are unable, or unwilling, to think for themselves, to their loss. We are harboring a conspicuous liar and exaggerator, intent in destroying this democracy of ours, the first step already won by this disgraceful bully, the loss of trust in each other. How far can this farce go on, when any worthwhile discussion is null if not based on the evidence and the truth?
1
Of course people could just stop tweeting. That would reduce conflict by about 99%.
That people think that tweeting something stupidly provocative won't lead to a fight is a mystery.
5
I agree with the direction of this article. Trump is such a big cultural problem for this nation because of his antiqued and distressingly boorish beliefs about women, immigrants and behavioral protocols that we have all come to expect from a presidential figure.
5
Since the matter of our good health unites us, when referrals for doctors are exchanged, we leave their political views on the side;
If the electric company issues a recording that severe weather may be the cause of a power outage and gives a list of precautions to be taken before the first thunder bolt is to be heard, our thoughts do not wander off, wondering if this is 'fake news';
When the World Health Organization issues a warning that favorite brands of cereal for children of all ages in the USA, we pause;
For those of us in search of a realtor to sell our house, we seldom wonder if the person is a democrat, a republican or socialist.
In the era of the technology revolution, communication skills could be improved. Our greed to be forever entertained needs to be eased to ensure more sleep.
Buddy is dying and his young friend does not understand. He keeps grooming him and wants to engage in a game of fur wrestling. If he smashes the Trump mug in the kitchen, this is an accident on his part.
For those of us who wish to make America better, the answer is to be found in each and every one of us, and not the man tweeting in The White House.
2
There's Trump.
Then there's Trump's enablers.
Then there's the Trump supporters.
The Trump supporters are the same ones who supported the Iraq war until they didn't. Now you can't find anyone who admits to supporting the Iraq war.
Trump talked a good talk. He talked about draining the swamp, which really does need draining. He talked about replacing Obamacare with something terrific (Medicare for all?). He talked about Infrastructure, for a week. He was going to get rid of all the crime. He was going to bring back all the manufacturing jobs. He was going to settle the whole immigration issue with an easy solution (wall) that wouldn't cost tax payers any money (Mexico).
If you were tone deaf to the blatant racism, and not too concerned with the details, it all sounded like a good deal. And Trump was the billionaire, successful businessman with excellent management skills. A deal maker! He would handle the details.
Can we really blame anyone for falling for that?
8
Yes, of course we can.
3
Trump's birtherism told me all I needed to know about him.
8
Two of my relatives are staunch Trump supporters. For a while, we tried to keep our political discussions as civil as possible. After all, they had always been republicans, willing to analyze and discuss ay and all issues. Sadly, that's not the case anymore. Now, they refuse to even consider that trumps' policies and practices might be wrong or misguided. They fiercely defend actions that, as devout Christians, they should find offensive and unacceptable. Instead of criticizing the separation of children from their parents, they cheered. Instead of condemning his racist tendencies and comments, they defend him, and argue that Whites are indeed victims in America. In short, they have devolved into mindless cheerleaders of the the White House current occupant. Sadly, they have chosen to separate themselves from the family. They don't even talk, or call anymore. Although we are a very large family, it's still painful that irrational adherence to a political figure has driven these two members away.
12
It is misleading to say it is about "politics." That word choice (and not being clear with words) is part of the problem. The "politics" of the times is simply exposing truths and cores of people. Maybe people were not close enough or intimate enough or listened enough to even know how their friends and family really ticked. So now that is laid bare. For me, yes I lost faith in certain friends - I got to know them better - when they voted for Jill Sanders. I lost respect the same way OTHER events in a friendship would have done the same thing if they exposed values I don't jibe with. This is not to say I wouldn't be there if needed if anyone needed me -- I don't ask for political affiliations in times of need -- this is about who we are spending time with and being intimate with. Of course we want to share values. Peace to all.
4
"Jon Meacham, has written a new book, “The Soul of America,” on how the country endured its most traumatic moments, from the Civil War to the rise of the Ku Klux Klan to Vietnam."
These were traumatic moments in US history and understandably divisive. One side was right and the other totally wrong.
Slavery is and was morally reprehensible. The South succeeded from the Union to continue the practice of slavery.
The Klan is a white supremacist group that promotes violence against blacks and spreads dubious propaganda.
The Vietnam war used American lives as pawns in an unwinnable "ideological" war against communism that totally failed to take into account facts on the ground: the colonial history of Vietnam, the experiences of people under Western-backed governments, and the hopes and wishes of the Vietnamese people for a better life.
Sometimes there is a right stance towards historical events and a wrong stance.
The majority of Americans who are opposed to Trump -- his distortion of the truth, his bitter divisiveness and racist stances, his opposition to science, experience and progress -- are on the right side of history. Period.
35
There will be another President in 2 or 6 years - only the shortsighted who are caught up in the meaningless here and now of cable news would ruin their friendships, family relations or marriage over political theatre.
10
I love my little brother with all my heart. We have not spoken a word to each other since the day after the election, don’t know if we will ever speak again. I am married to a Legal Second Generation Immigrant from Mexico. Apparently my brother hates Mexicans, I never knew.....I do not blame #45, apparently my brother has felt this way for years. Sad to find this out, but hard to imagine forgiving his hate. Thanks for the article.
20
When engaging with life-long friends who support Trump the conversation suddenly stops when I ask them if they think Trump is a nice man. We all grew up liking JFK and even at times, Ronald Reagan. They were both nice men. Trump is not.
9
The growth of angry hyper-partisanship makes little sense because the policies of the Democratic and Republican parties on many or most major issues are practically identical. Both parties believe that the United States should police the world, which results in deadly, destructive, and endless foreign wars and deprives this nation of much needed revenue for domestic programs that would improve the lives of Americans. Since overpopulation is a taboo subject in both parties, neither party can seriously address environmental problems. Both parties are so dominated by wealthy persons and institutions that neither proposes measures that would significantly curtail the growing wealth gap among Americans. Neither party addresses the potential environmental and cultural consequences of large scale legal immigration. And there is little real difference in the parties' approach to illegal immigration if one looks at arithmetic rather than listens to rhetoric.
5
It is undeniable that vitriol, on both sides, has replaced rational disagreements. Trump surely is to blame but it is certainly true that a personality such as his, has been inflamed by the "resistance" which began on the night of November 8, 2016 with calls for recounts (they were done and confirmed his victory), calls for amending the Constitution (nothing has come of that since the writers of the Constitution deliberately made amending it difficult for moments like the present.),and marches with placards claiming " he is not my president" when he manifestly is, The solution is keep your friends, don't dissolve family relationships, don't lose sleep but vote. Just remember there are many who may vote differently.
8
Not complicated. If my spouse of nearly 50 years, whom I Iove dearly and with whom I have two children and three grandchildren, were to be a Trump supporter, I'd correct the mistake I made in marrying her. Fortunately, that's not the case, and I suspect she feels the same same. Supporting Trump is an expression of one's values.
25
When a political party declares compromise is a sign of weakness and therefore is unacceptable, it should be prepared for a backlash. When its leader has lied over 4,000 times since taking the oath of office and his followers don't have a problem with that, it should be prepared for a backlash. When a political party rigs legislative districts to virtually ensure ten consecutive years of one-party rule, it should be prepared for a backlash.
These are not backlash issues of a purely political nature, they are ethical and moral issues. No wonder the slogan is "resist."
14
I am not sure I care to continue sharing thoughts, they may come back to haunt me not least being one of the few candid sorts who are not masked in anonymity. In any case, I am comfortably in the middle and seem to alienate those on both sides. Where is the middle, anymore?
6
I am a democrat but I try to understand the other side from their perspective. Most of our beliefs are handed to us so it makes sense to test them to see if they are valid. For instance, I try to see republicans moving to get bilateral trade agreements instead of multilateral agreements in our favor since our GDP gives us the advantage in trade negotiations. This gamble might fail as well as the gamble to encourage more NATO defense spending. Perhaps democrats are also feeling a loss of power and republicans feel drunk with power.
The wedges of abortion and gun control will never go away because most disagreements are never solved. The republican viewpoint is to think of abortion as equivalent to the murdering of innocent children while the democrats see it as necessary for freeing women from a life of hardship and protecting their loved ones from the dangers of unplanned childbirth. Democrats view gun control as what enables the murdering of innocent children while republicans see guns as necessary for freeing the nation from tyranny and protecting their loved ones.
We believe the other side is responsible for imagined moral horrors. I think that is the source of our balkanaization. The real goal is to make abortions and guns unnecessary without making them illegal. Both sides could make a case that their policies for providing low cost birth control to reduce abortions and gun safety training create a steep decline in the number of deaths created by the other side.
11
Talk about a timely article.
I’m currently out of the U.S. on a small group tour with 9 other people from different parts of our country. Last night at dinner, for the first time, we started talking politics. Within half an hour, various guests were shouting at each other and calling each other names! These are all intelligent people with high-level professional careers. We’re only halfway through our trip, and based on what happened last night, I have a pretty good idea that the rest of the trip is going to be rather uncomfortable.
22
I listened recently to a recorded conversation between two sisters on opposite sides of the political divide. I believe it was organized by Better Angels, a non-profit set up to get Dems and Repubs to talk to each other with the goal of understanding.
What I noticed was a very respectful conversation, with attempts on both sides not to escalate or wound. Otherwise it reminded me of countless conversations I've had, or have witnessed online. The Dem says, "trump did x, do you support that?" and the Repub says, "Oh I didn't know that, but anyway --" and carries on with their points. In other words, the Repub is less informed and, when presented with new information, doesn't incorporate it into their position. I've had people say to me, "Well, I'd need to see evidence for that" and when I furnish it, they don't acknowledge receiving it, or thinking it over.
This is no way to achieve mutual understanding. I flat out blame Republicans. They could choose factual news media but very often they instead choose opinion, or dubious quality outlets. They are animated by "owning the libs" or "making libs cry," rather than by strengthening our country.
40% continue to support this president, motivated by something other than patriotism. I can't respect, or generate any enthusiasm for making common cause with, such people. A similar phenomenon, run by the same russians, was the Brexit vote. A majority now wishes that initiative had lost. What will it take for the US to snap out it?
15
My husband’s sister and brother-in-law live in a rural area and neither have college educations, but they own their own business and do well. Real salt of the earth, lovely and steady. They had children before we did. When we had our children, we asked if we might name them in our will as the people who would care for our children should anything happen to us. They agreed and we were grateful. That was years ago. Since then, they’ve become evangelical rabid Republicans—even apologists for the Confederacy (though they live in New England!). No way would I want our kids reared by them now.
28
Life is much more than politics and much too short to let politics get in the way. People should not take Trump so seriously, he does not take himself so seriously. Voters on either side of the aisle should also not take themselves too seriously that it gets in the way of meaningful relationships.
We live in a democracy, and people have the right to their political opinions. But sometimes it is prudent to just express those in the ballot box or with those who agree with you, but not in mixed company / social settings. What good does it do to get in a disagreement with someone from the other side, neither side will be convinced of the other's argument, it is better to keep the topic off limits. Find common ground and discuss that. Politics is hardly everything.
There is an expression, you should never discuss religion or politics in mixed company. The workplace would be considered to be mixed company. And some families too, even before Trump. He is not the cause, but the symptom. Had Hillary been elected, it would have been the same thing, in reverse.
10
My wife and I have had some “discussions” but my brother has become estranged from his best friend whom he has known from his teenage years. A 45 year friendship out the door because of politics. What have we become?
44
@Ronald Stone to me, perhaps they never "really" knew each other, nor were they tested to know core values, It's not about "politics" to me, it is about actions (such as voting) which create very real impacts, and beliefs which expose core values. And maybe certain people don't want to share sacred time with folks who create hurtful outcomes for others (as they see it), or who don't share their values. This is how I see it. It's political only in the deepest sense and not superficially about "politics." This is how I see it in my life. Thanks.
8
@Ronald Stone. Not because of politics, because of values.
3
@Ronald Stone As a liberal, I'd say we've become people who really can't abide people who support the terrible person our president is, and the horrors he commits in our name. People who can support, accept, or overlook his Muslim ban and stealing children aren't people we care to spend time with.
1
What this article (as well as the "experts" consulted) misses is the way in which the technology we now use to communicate facilitates division. People talk face to face less and less. Our President is a perfect example of this - someone who sends out angry tweets, by himself, in the middle of the night to a stunned nation and world.
Until our culture breaks its addiction to the convenience of communicating by text and tweet, political divisions will only continue to fester. We need to put down our smartphones, look each other in the eyes, and talk to each other as people.
6
America is divided because they have elected a Great Divider, Trump who is doing Putin's bidding to divide and conquer the US. And there are millions of americans who applaud this strategy and support this division.
16
The issue of climate and global warming is one where a political party has taken a scientific and technical issue and has tried to turn it into a political issue. Unfortunately, the future climate will not change for the better when some fraction of citizens in the US decide that global warming is not happening. The issue of climate change is a political question. It is a scientific issue, and will likely occur, and we can estimate the range of effects on sea level and atmospheric CO2 we will see in the year 2100. I can only guess that people have politicized this because they don't want to have the actual relevant political discussion - what is the correct public policy to deal with the most likely effects over the next 10, 30 and 50 years? So, I don't see this as a "political disagreement", since the question of the current amount of warming that has occurred and how much is likely to occur in the coming decades can only be addressed by science. Not believing in climate change will not cool the earth. So, what is a political question? Is the assertion that vaccines cause autism a legitimate political position? I think not, since it is factually incorrect and does damage to lots of people. All we learn from all this is that humans are a truly contemptible lot, and perhaps we richly deserve the pain we bring on ourselves and others.
4
@HM We have the internal documents from oil and gas companies to know they knew about global warming and lied about it in order to keep their industry going. Climate change denial is cynically inculcated in a gullible audience who believe, without any evidence or even a cohesive theory, that Al Gore and climate scientists are somehow getting rich from the hoax. They refuse to believe the eminently sensible, provable claims about fossil fuel capitalists. It's political in the sense that propaganda has been assiduously utilized to convince a sizable number of Americans that what they can see and feel for themselves -- the weather, which has changed during their lifetimes. But the driver of denial is capitalism, and pathological greed.
4
Two major factors in creating and sustaining this erosion of civility are the mass adoption of social media and the conservative media empire that uses such media as well as television to wrap their audience in a cocoon of paranoia and resentment and to popularize the notion of liberalism as a disease. They keep their followers revved up by painting targets on people like Ken Storey whose lives are violently disrupted when they're labeled "enemies of the people". Then, of course, conservatives turn around and peddle the nonsense that it's their freedom of speech that's under attack.
And now we're stuck with a president who himself is a member of the audience for this empire and is being subsidized by the moneybags behind it. So we are living in a colossal right-wing grievance sandwich. Most people are liberals and we have no power.
And you want to know why people are angry?
21
@heyblondie I agree. Let's not forget their hypocrisy, though. How many times has Pat Buchanan told us an earthquake or flood was God's punishment for some liberal sin or another? Yet when someone makes that mild observation from the other side -- one which is based at least in part on facts, because TX has done a lot to contribute to climate change, and epic floods are one consequence of that -- he is drummed out of his job, threatened etc. Sometimes I find it hard to contain my resentment that Democrats have won the popular vote in 6 out of the past 7 elections; there are more of us than there are of them; but we don't take power because the ways the GOP cheats in elections via voter suppression, gerrymandering, and other unconstitutional behaviors. They cheat because it's the only way they can win. The other issue is elected Dems not using the power they do have. They keep confirming trump's judges, for example, even the obvious zealots. What does it cost them to refuse to affirm these appointments? Why not use the votes as leverage? I don't get it. And yes, all of it makes me angry.
7
@heyblondie Re: "Most people are liberals...." Two facts -
Almost as many people voted for Trump as for Clinton in 2016; just a 2.1% difference in terms of the votes cast.
According to the most recent Gallup poll information I could find, 35% of American adults regard themselves as conservative, 35% as moderate, and 26% as liberal.
Sounds like this is a delusion that liberals would do well to rid themselves of.
5
i understand your anger and share it, particularly regarding the evisceration of voting rights.
as someone who cares and writes about climate change professionally, however, i caution people against feeling that Texas somehow deserved the damage Harvey brought to its cities. not all Texans are conservatives, and those least able to weather climate change's impacts are also, demographically, least likely to support the GOP.
remember that the people you're thinking of—oil profiteers and denier-funders, head-in-the-sanders and good old-fashioned apocalyptic evangelists—aren't the ones suffering.
i don't think the professor should've lost his job, but he should apologize to the residents of Texas who did not court this disaster and even voted to avoid it.
This is false equivalence. America has maybe never been hijacked as it has been by Trump. That said, I have a friend who supports Trump. I listen as I know Trump support seems like a fever I cannot cure with facts. Her husband’s social life long haul truck driving is other right wing folks who also listen to right wing. She watches Fox News and says “we’re not as dumb as the government thinks we are.” It is a minor complaint ( as I worked hard for Hillary ) but I wish Hillary had not referred to some Trump supporters as a “basket of deplorables”.
I do not understand how some funny smart people could be seized by the Trump fever. I see it going door to door for state candidates, who say “we are Republican” even though the Trump supported candidate, in state office and legislature, has already done things to hurt their income and access to the public lands they love.
Trump support feels like a fever I cannot understand -otherwise how could anyone approve of Trump, despite their 401K or whatever? I read obsessively to try to figure this out-this horrible disease . Is it connected to our country’s ‘original sins’ of slavery and genocide of Native Americans ? I can’t picture how parents deal with Trump’s statements and behavior with their kids. Good Lord- he says Aretha Franklin “worked for” him? No words.
27
@Anne I can't answer your overall question as I am as baffled as you by the phenomenon of unswerving, uninformed support for trump carries on strong as ever. One thing I do know, though, is there's no significant difference in the intelligence of the two sides. A cultish group that argues by saying, "I don't follow it much but I just feel X," or that refuses to accept information from any but a small and shrinking number of cult-approved outlets, may appear on the surface to be unsophisticated, or even dumb. What characterizes these people is scoring high on scales of authoritarianism, sadism, and fearfulness. It seems that Obama drove many of them around the bend, using their primitive brain parts rather than the cortex to make decisions about and pledge their allegiance to trump -- not the country, not the constitution. It's the weirdest mass folly I've seen in my life. I am fearful of whether or how the divide is healed but I must admit I'm also fascinated to see how the aftermath of this presidency plays out psychologically. Will the pro-trump people find another person or cause to fervently get behind? Will there be a shattering of their collective identity that draws them back into their own lives, and returns them to rationality?
3
What portends danger for this country is not just Trump or partisan divide in the media. Wondering whether Congress is exercising its constitutional power to provide appropriate checks and balances on the authority of the executive branch is what keeps me up at night. (And all those 5-4 decisions coming down from the Supreme Court aka the deeply divided judicial branch).
4
I wish there were some way that the consequences of this disastrous presidency could be visited only on his supporters but since that's not possible I'm angry.
16
One frustrating aspect is in the use of words. I read and hear the misuse of words like liberal, conservative, socialist, communist, fascist, etc., pretty much every day in the comments section of this newspaper. The Oxford English dictionary defines "liberal" as "Willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas." But I'm pretty sure that's not what the owner of that Texas billboard meant when he used the word. Similarly, "conservative" is defined as "Averse to change or innovation and holding traditional values." But who could describe Donald Trump as "holding traditional values"? And then there's what seems to be the most misused word of all -- socialist. I've certainly seen it applied to Bernie Sanders, which seems utterly ridiculous to anyone familiar to the textbook interpretation of the word. Karl Marx certainly wouldn't agree. And how someone applies the word "communist" to WW2 Japan -- well I won't go there.
It's tough to carry on a constructive conversation with somebody who speaks an entirely different language. However that's the situation we seem to be dealing with right now, and I have no idea what to do about it.
13
The Greatest Generation, population and politicians, would never have supported a Trump-like person for any office, let alone President. They didn't survive the Depression and WWII, and build post-war America, only to see a mentally and morally disturbed dictator wanna-be become President. Their Baby Boomer children, at least those who support Trump, have betrayed their parents and grandparents, and the Founders.
19
@Cowboy Marine - you forget the entire McCarthy era. That was a blueprint for some of this. The Greatest Generation was a part of that. But you are right that old line Republicans are aghast at trump.
1
@Cowboy Marine The Greatest Generation was responsible for Nixon, Reagan, and both Bushes. They gave us TV dinners and enough plastic to choke our oceans; they were responsible for Jim Crow laws, and 4 little girls being killed by a bomb dropped on a church in Birmingham, AL. Meanwhile Boomers protested and helped end the Vietnam war, brought women unprecedented over their reproductive life, and broadened their opportunities in education and work. Many of us are at the end of our working lives but continue to contribute by tutoring, doing what we can to blunt the full force of the current administration's damage, continuing the environmental advocacy we made mainstream, and more. Those of us who could put our kids through college, or helped them with down payments on cars and houses. We created the Internet.
Judging people by the year of their birth is about as dumb as following your horoscope. All of the people born in 1982 don't think and act the same way, do they?
3
I can understand Americans living in some sort of hope it is going to get better with their glorious leader making deals with the world. I can understand the others who think their glorious leader is a joker and are ashamed. What both sides fail to note is the American dream is gone and the rich few now have it all.
6
After reading this and these comments I realized that it all panders to the ego of "what's his name". As long as the thunder and lightning stays focused on "what's his name", he's happy. So, if you want to really frustrate "what's his name", stop paying any attention to him or anything he does...????
Someday, we can hope that the US Congress realizes that they are being completely dominated and have no power left. Sadly, it was their choice to rollover and do nothing.
8
The GOP members of Congress, specifically. They have all the power.
@Taoshum Just like him, they're wholly owned by foreign interests. Some, like McConnell, may be beholden to China, or maybe they're all on the hook to putin. They're being blackmailed and aren't acting in the interests of the US. When the whole story comes out I suspect we'll be floored by how thoroughly the congress is accountable to someone other than Americans.
2
I'm actually glad to read this. Donald is a threat to minorities. Maybe previous Republicans were the same way, but they weren't so aggressive and loud and obvious about it.
I'm glad that people are taking a stand.
11
Yeah...but. I split time between Montana and southern California, and haven't had a single stressful conversation in either place about the merits of red vs blue. Then again, I don't spend time in the company of people who see the Apocalypse in every Tweet. And speaking of Twitter...I suggest no one use it. Ever.
24
Assuming that the Republican leadership shares at least my modest level of intelligence and knowing that a toddlers education is sufficient to understand (with some history knowledge) that Trump (if not restrained) will destroy this country, then, why oh why, is the Republican leadership going along with Trump? Greed and power are insufficient an answer because there is nothing to be had in destruction.
I am stumped.
41
@Jzu
There is absolutely something to be had in destruction. Look at the collapse of the USSR. Those inside the system robbed the place blind on the way down. Read Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine. Any 0.1%'er will tell you that the best opportunity for stealing a few hundred million dollars is during a natural, economic or political disaster.
8
@Jzu They don't see it as destruction, that's the point. Greed and power IS their endpoint - because as long as they are okay, nothing else matters. And they'll be OK as long as they stay greedy and in power. With a healthcare motto of "your pills, your bills" what do you expect?
8
The most galling part of Trump's stoking of divisions is that he really doesn't care about any of it. It's not that he doesn't think that a judge of Mexican heritage must be unfair to him, or that the head of the FBI needs to express fulsome personal loyalty to him, or that he personally can charm dictators like Putin or Kim Jong Un into doing what he wants. It's just that it's all entertainment to him that brings along political benefits. The damage he is causing is irrelevant. Fitzgerald told us about people like Trump: "I couldn't forgive him or like him, but I saw that what he had done was, to him, entirely justified. It was all very careless and confused. They were careless people, Tom and Daisy – they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness, or whatever it was that kept them together and let other people clean up the mess they had made..."
24
We need to go back to the time when it was improper to discuss religion and politics at "the table" or amongst guests. How's that for a conservative thought?
16
It is wrong to reduce the partisan divide only to Trump. He is a symptom, not the cause. There are deep ideological divisions in this country, and Trump has only brought them to the surface and articulated them in a way which makes it easy for each side to dig in, convinced of its own rectitude. I am a liberal but because I persist in questioning every ideological position, I am often attacked by both sides. During the election, some friends on the social media were appalled by my support for Hillary, while others were upset by my rejection of Sanders. The former, ironically, accused me of supporting a “socialist”, while the latter could not understand why I refused to support one. Explanations, facts, historical or economic evidence did not help. The same polarized and ignorant attitudes persist today on both sides. Nothing that Trump is doing can possibly be good because he is a “narcissist” (as if it had any relevance to his policies); no criticism of his erratic performance is justified because it contradicts the will of the “people” (so what?). In liberal California we don’t meet many Trump supporters but I occasionally feel sorry for them when I read some unhinged attack that compares Trump to Hitler and separation of families to the Holocaust. And then I remember the QAnon and feel sorry for myself.
13
@Mor..."It is wrong to reduce the partisan divide only to Trump."......Over the years there have been any number of logical, honest, honorable Republicans and Conservatives. Trump by his own words and actions is a vulgar bigoted narcissist. He has many supporters who refuse to acknowledge this fact. You can't have a discussion with people who refuse to admit facts.
33
@W.A. Spitzer. Honorable Republicans and Conservatives, none of whom are currently serving in Congress....
1
Outright racist or bigoted talk disappeared for the most part from civil society in the past 30-40 years. I think many of us took that to mean that friends and relatives going way back had changed and matured, and the nation had moved on. The Trump phenomenon has revealed these folks for who they are, and apparently always have been. You can bet that those who are ardently for Trump yet never said a word about Romney, McCain, the Bushes, etc., are not in it for the tax cuts and de-regulation, they're in it for the nativism. This undercurrent of Archie Bunkerism, hidden for so long, has been unleashed by Trump, and we've found that our relatives, co-workers, neighbors have more in common with Archie than with us.
It is so shocking and painful that for some, avoidance is the easiest way to deal with it.
229
@Frank Roseavelt
Frank,
I didnt vote for either. But here is a question regarding your statement about nativism. What is nativism? Is it wrong? Is it wrong in all cases? What about gentrification? Is the push back against it a form of nativism? Is a liberal institution doing something similar if it protects itself from conservatives?
4
@Frank Roseavelt Good insights.
Labeling people Conservative or Liberal. How many of us are Conservative or Liberal on some issues but opposite or less sure on other issues? Labeling is really just not bothering to get to know an individual. Maybe there is common ground on some issues and not on others. We're all too complex for one-size-fits-all labeling.
16
I think if you’re driven by fundamental values and a philosophy vs self-interest on an issue by issue basis, it’s pretty straightforward. There really is data to show that positions on issues tend to cluster or be highly correlated on two dimensions.
6
Ironically, there is one fundamental point of consensus between Trump supporters and opponents: There has never been a US president remotely like him. Trump is not just different because of his policy stances. He is different because his presidency has taken a whole new approach to how one thinks about American politics. Prior presidents (Republican and Democrat) saw politics as a process of building consensus among different groups to bring about policy changes. Trumpism is about building a national identity (albeit one that excludes certain people) centered around the personality of a single individual who embodies that identity. It's a zero sum game where political opponents are "enemies" who must be defeated. His opponents view him as a demagogue at the center of a personality cult, but Trump's supporters see him as a hero boldly attacking their foes.
Trump opponents (Democrat and Republican) were gobsmacked by the 2016 election because they assumed almost everyone agreed with certain verities about our country. We now know about 35-40% of the population disagrees. They don't mind racism, they're willing to tear up our Western alliances, they're isolationist and hate immigration, they oppose a media that criticizes their leader -- and most importantly, they are willing to place complete faith in Trump.
These people are not going away. Our only option is to defeat them politically. We thus play their zero sum game, but at this point we have no other choice.
55
@Andy Dwyer -- you say "Trumpism is about building a national identity (albeit one that excludes certain people) centered around the personality of a single individual who embodies that identity. "
That's an identity cult ... and in this case one that seems very like the rise of fascism.
1
I'm sorry but they're wrong and there's no debating that. I may be canadian but my outrage is just as potent.
27
The thought of Trump makes me nauseous. Two good friends of mine, my brother-in-law and my father are all pro-Trump. When our allegiances were made known to us, we all agreed in order to continue our long and fruitful relations to agree to never bring up politics.
These pacts have (so far) worked well. We'll see how things develop in the future.
17
There are probably many seeds which caused this blossoming of such a partisan divide. I believe one of them was the 2000 election when the Supreme Court stepped in and declared George W. Bush the winner, although Gore won the popular vote. Many of us said that W was the worst President ever, little did we know. Then, when Obama was elected and he got the Nobel Prize before he did anything, many conservatives, not just those who were racist, must have been livid. Senator McConnell’s refusal to consider the Merrill Garland Supreme Court nomination was exceedingly frustrating. The loss of the 2016 election due to the electoral college system despite the popular vote and despite all the polls was devastating.
But, instead of a president who would try to reach across the aisle, we got an exacerbater, someone who jumped in and full throttle threw his winning in our faces.
I try very hard to understand the point of view of others and to respect their opinions. But it is very, very, very hard these days.
31
@BWTNY, agreed that the 2000 election was a terrible turning point (and that, although I voted for him, Al Gore did not run a great campaign or show the kind of political skill of Bill Clinton). That said, at this point in the Trump presidency, unlike Bush-Cheney, the nation has not suffered a kind of attack like 9/11; nor has it seen the current president abuse such an attack and the nation's (arguably ill-placed) faith to make extravagant, unverifiable claims about WMD to justify invading a nation that never attacked US soil. So I would say Bush-Cheney is still by far worse in comparison with Trump. And, hiring John Bolton aside, Trump does deserve credit for calling out Bush-Cheney on this issue and Jeb Bush during the 2016 GOP primaries.
As someone who voted for Obama in both 2008 and in 2012, I will, in retrospect, agree with Republicans that the Nobel Peace Prize was prematurely (and improperly) awarded to Obama. Because in spite of all the 2008 campaign rhetoric to the contrary, Obama, in fact, continued the Bush-Cheney neo-con wars in Iraq and Afghanistan his entire 8 years, ending his presidency with the shameful distinction of longest wartime president in US history. And doubled and tripled-down on the intervention-first, regime change nonsense in Syria and Libya. Yes, he had hawkish advisors like Hillary but the buck ultimately stops with the President.
2
As an independent, i try to see both sides. In this case, what i see on the Trump side is far more than worrisome. Worrisome is the roll back of regulations meant to protect us all and the coming resource rape of public lands.
Beyond worrisome is the existential threat to our democratic form of government. You don't have to look very far to see similarities between Trump and other authoritarians. Read KILLING DEMOCRACY on Amazon and you'll see what i mean.
What is happening is that the people supporting Trump are enabling the destruction of our nation as we know it. That is fundamentally far more serious a disagreement than over goals and policies. That's driving the intensity of the divide whether people are conscious of it or not.
56
We are going to need to look to Germany and France after the War to see if a society as divided as we are can ever truly recover. And there were many factors, not the least of which was the division of Germany into West and East and the rise of Communism that played a role. Maybe it hasn't truly happened yet.
This is a deadly serious time. I will not associate with supporters of the enemy of our republic. I will not forget who, after 18 months! still supported or associated willingly with supporters of this administration. They are the Vichy to me.
I get that families have been torn apart. It's a terrible thing but for me, there's no going back. I know what I know now about the character of people and that doesn't change. It only goes underground.
VOTE!
39
Agree we should vote. Probably won't help. Totally diluted. Fox is guarding the chicken coop. Consider who is in charge of elections in GA.
While it is certainly true that Trump's personality and rhetoric have led to the widening of our divide, I still find it to be against the spirit of a democratic society to refuse to even acknowledge the other side, or to engage in discussions with them. In a way, this is the same as saying that we should not engage with North Korea or other countries we do not traditionally get along with.
Nothing is ever gained by not speaking. In fact, that further perpetuates the growing stereotype of the liberal mind, that they are militant and closed off to other perspectives. Trump has made many mistakes, but not everything is bad. If you cannot say one good thing about him, you are probably blinded by hate. I can think of a compliment for even the politicians that I disagree with the most.
I encourage all citizens to not take the stubborn road, but rather engage with their friends they disagree with the most. You would be surprised with how much you may have in common according to principal, rather than political talking points. Keep the dialogue going!
10
@Russell George..... "I still find it to be against the spirit of a democratic society to refuse to even acknowledge the other side, or to engage in discussions with them."......Trump by his words and actions is a vulgar bigoted narcissist. The number of examples that prove that he is a vulgar bigoted narcissist is overwhelming. How can you have a discussion with someone who continues to deny facts?
31
@Russell George -- please list one genuinely good thing about Trump, as a human being, or as President of the United States.
I truly cannot of one kindness, one generous gesture, one decency, one moment of wisdom.
3
@Lee Harrison
I challenge you that you can - acknowledge you may have 9,999 negative points against Trump, but that you have to say one good thing. Follow the whole picture. Not everything is 100% one way in politics.
When I've heard Trump/Republican-supporting family members and neighbors (who live in rural areas) talk about the issues I notice they use Fox News and alt-right Internet fake news speak. They make claims as fundamental truths, raise their voices to the point of yelling and claim I'm not in touch. They sound fearful and angry: evil others (liberals, the NY Times, etc.) are threatening them, the real Americans. Somewhere underneath all this I still believe we share values in common--we just don't agree on the means to express and achieve them.
11
People vote.
Best music? Jay Z. Best food? Twinkies. Best book? Laura Bush: Spoken from the Heart. Best actor? Adam Sandler.
Voting is the most efficient means of finding the lamest, most vulgar and idiotic possible thing there is. Unsurprisingly, it has brought us catastrophes like Nixon, Reagan, Bush I, Bush II and now..Trump.
Anyone over 5 knows that voting is a blueprint for disaster. It doesn;t work because it can't work.
4
I think we really are politically hard-wired to our parents. Generally speaking, whatever they are we are. Yes, there are vast exceptions, but it's something we can see for ourselves, especially in our extended families. I just hope that this coming Thanksgiving is a time when nobody gets hurt and I mean physically. Because it isn't getting any better. And there doesn't seem to be a healer on the horizon, one who declares him or herself strictly independent.
1
@MARCSHANK - waiting for an independent unicorn is foolish. Our country has republican and democrat, pick one, there aren't any other options.
1
The greatest problem with attempting to have a "political" discussion or argument with Trump supporters is that they do not accept the existence of objective facts. It is impossible to have a civil debate with someone whose only argument is "I like to feel this way, therefore I'm right."
That's why support for the Republican Party and Trump typically has nothing to do with actual policy. Love of Trump is based upon the fact that Trump makes fun of the people that his supporters hate: immigrants, black people, liberals, intellectuals, teachers, scientists, environmentalists, gay people, etc...
When a political argument is based on spite and petty revenge instead of actual policy, it is no longer an argument. Since we no longer live in a world where objective reality has any sway on those in power or their supporters, the only way to maintain sanity is to stop talking to said supporters.
50
By the way, when I say "we liberals have no power", of course I'm aware that we have the power to vote Trump out of office in 2020. But that means continuing to live with his psychodrama for another two years, and I don't know if I can survive that.
11
The false equivalencies in this piece and others of its ilk are infuriating. I am a staunch advocate for cultivating empathy for someone else's experience and point of view. However, truly dangerous and dehumanizing beliefs and actions are being discussed as though people on either side have an equal right to their "difference of opinion."
I wholeheartedly disagree that both parties have equal responsibility for this "divided era," when the majority of republicans are actively supporting racism, misogyny, heterosexism, an oppressive theocracy, and erosion of the free press.
For people who work against others' human/civil rights due to race, sex, gender, ability, religion, or nation of origin, it's a natural consequence when the moral humans in their lives create some distance from that.
45
@S Walker How can you not blame both parties for this problem? Consider the following.
In 2012, I voted for President Obama, yet I vote Republican more often than I vote Democrat. Why? Because I listened to him and his opponent. He spoke to the American people, his opponent publicly said the American people were sheep who would swallow any line they were fed.
In 2016, I voted Independent. Why? Because I listened to all the candidates. Trump ran on hatred, Clinton ran on "I deserve this because (1) I'm a woman and (2) I'm a Democrat. It's my opinion both those messages (hatred and, "I deserve it") are invalid.
The message of hatred is against the ethos of most religions. Most Republicans claim to be religious. Why would most Republicans vote for a candidate spouting hatred? Because they always vote the party.
Most Democrats claim to be free thinkers. Why would they vote for a woman who says, "I deserve your vote," but has no other real message other than she is a Democrat and you hate Republicans? Because they always vote the party.
Both parties owe Americans quality candidates who care for and stand for Americans over party lines.
One final question. Do you think most Republicans will vote for Trump in 2020, or do you think many will look at the results of his Presidency and consider voting for someone else? If the Democratic Party wants those "independent thinker" votes, it had better promote a better candidate and not depend on just "party voters."
4
I think our problem is that centrists and liberals have been forced to live under conservative rule, even though conservatives don't win majorities. It is galling to be a citizen and forced to endure conservative dominance on a national level when we clearly know they do not win the majority of votes. Two changes to our national system would go a long way toward rectifying this - abolish the Electoral College (a slavery era relic designed to enable tyranny of the minority) and outlaw partisan gerrymandering so that political parties can't game the system for decade long periods (which the Republicans have mastered). If we had a system that truly reflected majority interests we'd probably still have political discord, but it would seem a bit less unfair (and less obnoxious) if it was a true rhetorical argument between the majority/leader and minority/opposition. Instead we're subjected to the opposite, minority/leader and majority/opposition. It is inherently unfair and leads those of us on the liberal/centrist side feeling more and more marginalized by a right-wing that has used every means in their control to lord it over the rest of us. I'm sick and tired of Christian conservatives (a minority) telling the rest of us what we can and can't do with our bodies and lives; of the alt-right (a distinct minority) feeling empowered and entitled to project their heinous ideology as if it's a majority view; of free-market heterodoxy treated as if it's a branch of natural science.
45
On the highways during rush hour I see very very few political bumper stickers anymore. I think the Democrats in their fuel-efficient sedans and cross-overs are afraid of being run off the road by Republicans in their huge pick-ups, while deep down the Republicans (at least the employed ones with a reason to be out during rush hour) are ashamed to openly acknowledge that they support someone as despicable as Donald Trump. Plenty of NRA and religious-themed stickers though, so its not as if people are shy.
14
@MarkDFW -- during the GWB years I had a bumper sticker that said "regime change starts at home."
That car threw a rod and went to the junk yard. Think I need to get another copy printed.
1
Funny, I don't know any "angry" people. I know a lot of frightened people who are taking action to get The Con Don and his Robber Baron brethren OUT of OUR United States Governments at every level.
The "male model" of civilization - since they learned to manufacture weapons during the bronze age - is to ramp up fear-anger-hate, start WAR and wreak havoc-death-destruction-rape-pillage-plunder. It literally takes no brains. It is built on the idea that there is only one "winner" in every competition and that everyone should be willing to sacrifice their moral/social compass to "win".
The way sustainable, prosperous civilization for all is a cooperative system where human beings care about basic living needs for everyone and help each other succeed. Robber Barons are weeded out before they can destroy everyone else. Call is socialism if you wish. I call it true democracy- Social and Economic Justice for all human beings. Capitalism with a Social Conscience that puts half the gross profits of government-funded projects back into the system for social goods.
Utopia? Heavens no. Just "reasonable" thinking and living and a way to relative peace in the world.
17
If anyone wants to view the divide in simple terms, I invite them to read the top "Readers Picks" comments here. Which I can sum up as:
"Am not." - "Are, too."
"Am not." - "Are, too."
...
12
I disagreed strongly with almost everything George W. Bush did as president. None of my close friends supported George W. Bush, but certain acquaintences and members of my family did, and I continued my associations with them. Supporting Trump is crossing a line in my view. It is not okay to mock a disabled person, as most people learned when they were very young. It is not okay to boast in a vulgar fashion about sexually assaulting women, nor to call Mexicans rapists, nor to seek to ban an entire religious group from this country, nor to disparage people based upon their physical appearance or weight, nor to traffic with neo-Nazis, Klansmen and their likes, nor to disparage people of color generally, and the nations from which some of those people or their descendants came, nor to support the most ruthless dictators in the world today. I feel I would be morally compromised in associating with people who either agree with these attitudes, or are willing to overlook them for whatever goal is more important to them. I would have judged someone in Nazi Germany who tolerated pro-Hitler sentiment among their friends and family as morally deficient, and I don't wnat to be such a person.
76
Somewhere on the moral continuum between George Washington and Adolph Hitler there is a moral red line. Trump is on the wrong side of that line for a lot of people all the way across the political spectrum.
The people who continue to blindly support Trump are complicit in his attacks on our constitution, government and civility. They, too, will need to attone for their civil transgressions.
38
We share land mass, but live in different nations, with different histories. I’ve made a point of reading right wing websites as a sort of amateur socio-anthropological study, and i find that for those in the Breitbart/gab/Daily Caller stovepipe, Scandinavian-style socialism is identical to Stalinist Russia, Hitler was a Socialist, Lincoln’s Republican Party is the same as the current GOP, the Holocaust is an
exaggerated fraud, African Americans are proven to be of inferior intelligence to caucasians, Jews are the secret puppet masters behind all global evils, and etc, etc. Now I learn that the noisy followers of Q believe that pedophiles rule the Democratic party and that Trump and Bob Mueller are secret allies in a war against the deep state, and the JFK jr faked his death so that he could lead the battle. An ever popular trope is that the US is not a democracy, it’s a republic. (A republic is a form of democracy) These beliefs are evidence of a willful ignorance, and stand firm, impervious to documentation. If you present documentation it is dismissed as “pointy headed intellectualism”. How does a polity emerge from that?
22
For over four decades rich right wing billionaires were instrumental in creating and funding a array of well coordinated pseudo think tanks, talk radio and Fox News to spew beliefs that were once considered in the realm of fringe “wing-nut” groups like the John Birch Society. Now 30 to 40% of Americans subscribe to far right ideology with religious fervor.
Now, people are starting to worry, but I don’t see articles coming from the fascist right suggesting they may have gone a bridge too far. For decades the far right has made every effort to mock, vilify and soon denounce those of us who refuse to abandon majority rule and Democracy in America.
I once heard Bobby Kennedy ponder if the far right “could only be happy once they had returned feudalism to power?” The sad thing was he was not being cynical when he made that statement. Maybe he could not fathom the motives of the far right in America, but he clearly understood the goal
There are former friends, business associates and family members I will no longer talk with or socialize with. When they and their ilk call me a “libtard” they are saying that belief in an egalitarian society, and caring for the least of us is to be scorned. They decry our protestations to bigotry, racism, oligarchy and authoritarian rule as being, “politically correct.”
Perhaps the most tragic element is that so many Americans have come to embrace fascism in much the same way that Germans in the early 1930’s did.
51
Spot on. Thank you.
6
@RVN ‘69, on the other hand, there are many people who consider themselves Bobby Kennedy Democrats; Frank Church Democrats; and Barbara Jordan Democrats, and have found there is no room for them in the Democratic Party anymore. There are many people who have been left stranded by where the Democratic Party has gone in the last several years.
4
Sorry, not sorry but if someone still supports Trump and all his incompetence, incoherence, and insults, not to mention all his lies, I want nothing to do with you. More to the point: How do you meet a bigot half-way? You can't.
62
Too bad Twitter can't be taken down entirely. It is stupid at best and a way to foment fury and violence at worst. Without it the president might have to be interviewed by the press for his views to be known.
17
I certainly can relate to having to tamp down immediate and extreme revulsion when people admit to supporting Trump. Usually I will let it pass but if someone starts in on 'immigrants' or 'feminazis' or 'libtards' then I will put distance between myself and them.
I blame Luntz for a lot of this, he has essentially designed the playbook Fox News follows and now that his side is starting to reap what they gave sowed he had started to become disenchanted? Sounds like he has seen some polls that are the inverse of 2010 and 2014 and he wants to be seen as an enlightened peacemaker. Seems disingenuous.
23
This is America. People, please get on with your lives. All of this manufactured hate, and hysterics is what the left wants you to feel. Do not allow hate to take over your daily life.
Oh yes it is the left. Every single day is a new horrible terrible thing Trump did or said or one of his associates did or said.
Trust me, Obama was no prince. Many of his "associates" are in jail.... Tony Rezko for one.
Suffice to say, every one of us is a little bit of a bum.
The left behaves as though they are the moral ones, the caring ones and the most tolerant. That is hilarious. comments from "liberal" types make me literally LOL
You are getting sucked into the media on all sides. Decide what is really important to you. Grow up. There are parts of this planet where there are people really suffering..... in 2018! Our country gives gobs of money (your money, your taxes) away to other countries. What do we see that has improved?
Now, does your child really deserve an allowance raise? or are you just going to do it because everyone else is?
14
In the past we differed over policy but didn't refuse to stop talking.
This is all about Trump; he is such a disgrace to our country. He is stupid,ignorant,a constant liar,amoral, nasty bully,racist,misogynist ....
The majority thinks the people who voted for him have done great damage to out country,its history,values & any idea that other people are worthy of respect.
Many of his voters seem to have voted out of spite & jealousy of their neighbors.Most of them didn't care what a horrible character Trump has so why should anybody else trust them to behave ethically?Why get involved with people you can't trust?
None of them seem to have cared that he demonstrated again & again that he is a lying ignoramus but still wanted him to be making decisions about our military. If they are unable to assess truth & perform critical thinking why should anybody trust them to be thoughtful & effective employees?
Some of them seem to want to impose their religious beliefs upon people who do not share them.The beliefs all seem to turn on their wanting to control women & hating men who don't have any desire to do so.This is not just mean,selfish & bullying; it is unconstitutional. They are willing to rip apart the country's foundational principles to secure male heterosexual dominance. So you can't trust them to secure rights except for the one that gives them guns by which to vent their spite hate & control upon others.What woman or gay with a brain would want to live anywhere around them?
25
@Christine
Forgive the triple negative in the first sentence: should have been "didn't refuse to keep talking."
@Christine
We are angry with them because what they did tells us something we didn't know about who they are. And made us unable to trust them with much of anything. How can communities survive without trust?
Trump as usual has been doing Putin's bidding in wanting to destroy us as a threat to Putin and Russian gangsters' aims.
The global context should be considered when looking at the reactions of democrats to the actions of President Trump. Two terms of a very articulate African american president, while by no means perfect, had raised the collective consciousness towards a sense of connected and integrated communities. Human want to belong and feel safe, and the previous president had that effect on those who were able to believe society was integrating and opportunities remained for those who were willing to reach for them. Even concerns about police aggression towards African Americans fit within a narrative that longstanding issues were being brought to light and addressed, and better days were ahead. The current president has swung the pendulum in the other direction dramatically, creating a deep sense of LOSS for those who were previously hopeful. Repeated actions to divide between genders, cultures, races, religious groups has been the norm of this administration. Also, climate change science suggests a limited time to prevent the worst impact of human development, the destruction of residential and agricultural communities across the globe due to extreme weather conditions. The previous administration was inclined to address these issues, the current one denies that any efforts should be perused and does not acknowledge a problem the other group sees as LIFE ON EARTH threatening. The fear is driving much of the anger and resistance now, as democrats in general see time running out.
31
I encourage anyone who has experienced the frayed relationships from the 2016 consider investigating "Better Angels". David Brooks has written about it. It is a set of workshops that help groups of people from both sides of the political divide. There are structured activities to help people respect one another and their views. As a country, we need this now.
5
@Julia S...."groups of people from both sides of the political divide".....Sorry, but Trump is a vulgar bigoted narcissist, and there is nothing political about it.
8
@W.A. Spitzer
I share your concerns about Trump, FOX, and many of his supporters. I ask that you look up "Better Angels". When Trump is gone, whether soon or in 6 years (ugghhhh) we are going to be left with an extremely polarized country. We will have to get back to civility. I am concerned that his supporters are being slowly brainwashed (like frogs in boiling water). It happens in countries with despots. We have to have methods that can help undo the damage.
1
The media in general and politicians in particular have created a huge money churning business by identifying and exploiting the average American's desire to take sides and be heard. Americans love to speak out and take great pride in their opinions on the political issues of the day framed by the media - after all the First Amendment is the law of the land. On the other hand, in my social interactions I rarely discuss politics with friends and acquaintances conservatives and liberals. While my father was a Democrat convert to the Republican party after Reagan, I focused on our relationship and refused to discuss politics as much as he was hankering to "pick a fight" so to speak. We will never agree so no need to waste what time we have left on earth - he found himself increasingly isolated at his upscale retirement community until he realized no one likes angry old guys with extreme views about liberals while maintaining conservatives were perfect. In general debating, which is really tiresome arguing when done by the average person, leads to anger because it is fundamentally a battle of the wills. Enough. Getting angry about, at, for or with others, while fine for an immediate objective, just sets people up for exploitation. Don't get played.
5
When I came back from Europe in 1972, I thought Americans were overall pretty violent and unstable, compared to Europeans. With President Carter, I thought we were finally moving towards civilisation. I can see that I was mistaken, at least in regards to Republicans. I hope November will bring a massive electoral victory for Democrats (and thus, the civilised world).
12
This exactly what Trump and his right wing Republican Party has been looking for. Divide and rule. They have no interest in our great democracy, our constitution or moral integrity of our secular society. By "make America great again," they really mean lets divide people and "make ourselves rich again."
19
I no longer communicate with my Step-Dad. Our interactions were primarily limited to Facebook since we are separated by considerable distance. But I didn't unfriend him because of his support for Trump, his political ideology, or anything having to do with his vision of the world. I let him go after he posted vicious political remarks on my wall, directed at me, and would not stop doing so, even after I politely asked him not to do so in the future. I have no idea if he acts this way in person and, frankly, at this point in my life, I don't care anymore. As a side note, I have substantial numbers of family and friends who likely voted/supported Trump and we have normal interactions. Since I don't believe Trump's behavior is normal, we just don't talk politics.
17
This article fails to acknowledge the many anti-Trump Republicans, one of whom is an op-ed columnist for this paper, two of whom are former presidents, many of whom have commented in this and other papers, and many of whom opposed his presidency since before the election. They did so out of moral values and concerns about his honesty and that most of what he stood for would be bad for the country. Although I am a liberal and disagree with them on many policy positions, I feel a tremendous respect and kinship with them. This article presents a superficial and false equivalency and fails to identify the true nature of the divide. It is different from the past because it is not just D vs R, liberal vs conservative. The comments are more insightful and I hope the reporter will read them.
7
It's not just Democrats that are upset by Trump, or even independents and many moderate Republican voters: I've seen a number of news articles saying many Republican members of Congress are alarmed at his behavior, but dare not say so on the record for fear of backlash from the angry Republican base (and suffer the fate of Flake or Sanford). Witness the record number of House members who have decided not to run again, many because they can't stand the climate and having to defend Trump's agenda. Twice the Senate has voted almost unanimously to impose more sanctions on Russia which Trump has resisted--i.e. they are trying to contain him without having to say so publicly.
When representatives support policies they disapprove out of fear of the constituency of their own party, it is not the opposing party that is being equally and unreasonably partisan.
9
Although the virulence of these disputes is recent, the conditions have been set over many years. In 1964, the Republican party nominated for President a person who had rejected the 1964 Civil Rights Act; it also accepted Sen. Strom Thurmond of South Carolina, a deeply committed segregationist, even allowing him to keep his Senate seniority. In 1980, Ronald Reagan began his campaign in the Mississippi headquarters of the Klan with a speech on state's rights. And in 2012, Mitt Romney traveled to Las Vegas to seek Trump's endorsement when Trump was known mainly for promoting the vicious "birtherism" lie -- a falsehood no leading Republican condemned.
Over decades, the Republican party selected for people willing to believe in falsehoods, beginning with white supremacy, and disposed toward suspicion and hatred toward those different from themselves. In 2016, these people got the candidate they truly wanted. In an America rapidly diversifying, it's no wonder that this result has caused serious divisions.
It didn't have to be this way. After the 2012 election, researchers at the Republican National Committee recommended that the party seek to become more representative of the country by reaching out to minorities. Its leaders and their media allies chose instead to pursue white Christian nationalism. Among the reasons for our divisions, this is one of the most important -- and unnecessary.
20
Excellent article. Worth reflecting on this comment section though … the most popular comments overwhelming agree that anyone with a right of centre view or some form of support for the president is a lost cause. Common ground is of no interest. No appetite for debate or admission there is an ounce of validity in the views across the table. Unfortunately you're talking about a solid 40% of the country ... and seething condescension is a poor tool for delivering change. I'm not suggesting we're any better at this up here in Canada, but it looks like we might all be at this for a while.
15
@Simon
They're not interested in common ground. That would require listening to the other side, actually entertaining other viewpoints and might result in their having to examine their own views. Much easier to shut down the discussion.
Of course, one might wonder why they are so resistant to dialogue. Could it be that their moral high ground cannot withstand scrutiny?
4
We'll never know unless you actually specify a position or two to discuss. Something specific, such as trade, LGBTQ civil rights, foreign policy, environmental policy, women's rights, a more equitable distribution of the spoils of capitalism, access to affordable healthcare and education.
How "tolerant" and "mature" Democrats are. Especially the "well-educated," most liberal ones who would be smart to demand a full refund from their universities since they failed miserably in learning important lessons. Here is one for them. Tolerance isn't necessary and doesn't apply to individuals and ideas that we like and agree with. It applies to ones that we don't. The willingness of over a third of Democrats to strain relationships over politics, which is nearly three times higher than Republicans according to this article says a whole lot about their character. So does the fact many are willing to use violence or threats of it the past couple years to get campus speakers and campaign rallies cancelled, which Republicans never returned the "favor" for. This behavior is nothing short of disgraceful, pathetic, sad and has no place in our constitutional republic.
At the end of the day, fighting and straining relationships over politics with family members, friends and colleagues is flat-out immature and idiotic. Especially in our political system where both major parties don't care about anyone outside those who write large checks. Former President Clinton a few years ago received the Dole Leadership Prize for bipartisanship while in office and gave an excellent speech I pasted the link to below. May we as a country one day get over our final bigotry, not wanting to be around anyone who disagrees with us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmxpdjJyiwM
6
The south used to be solidly Democratic for about 100 years until Lyndon Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act. Then it switched to become solidly Republican. Racism showing?
This switch was exploited by Nixon and Reagan with the "southern strategy" and Reagan's campaign start in Mississippi. Along came Rush Limbaugh and Rupert Murdoch to exploit division and make billions off of it. Divide and Conquer is as old as Caesar and it still pays.
Now I consider the Republican party and Republicans as my enemy. Why? They want to take health care away from my grandson.
9
A little man needs a big man analogy is why people support Trump.
6
A mirror for conservatives to look into: which of Trump’s policies do you disagree with? Which of Obama’s did you like?
A mirror for liberals: which of Trump’s policies do you think are a good idea? Which of Obama’s do you think were wrong?
If you can’t provide a few examples for each of those, it shows that you have fallen into the trap of partisanship. Your overall balance will certainly be one way or the other, but if you can’t recognize some of the good in the other party, and some of the bad in your own, then you will never be able to empathize across the aisle in the way that is necessary for compromise and community.
18
@S If this makes sense to you, you have fallen into the trap of moral relativism. Anyone should see good and bad in anything, in relatively equal measure? Seriously? You're making this argument in a time when a KKK-endorsed president is refusing to condemn neo-Nazism?
21
@S Trump has no apparent policies other than self-aggrandizement. Everything else is a yesterday's fib he does not support today, or looney-toonery like the wall he claimed Mexico would pay for and nothing-burgers like a military march he insists on obtaining.
1
Ignorance and bigotry have been around forever. So has Trump actually. He’s an old man who people only started paying any attention to a couple of years ago. Social media is what’s destroying us. People say things over their computer that they would never say face to face. This is fueling a vicious cycle and the breakdown of discourse. In a conversation you care about how the person you’re speaking to may react. In social media you post and tweet with the purpose of provoking. It’s taking a toll.
6
@Cali Life, the Democrats would be smart to run on the issue of breaking up the tech monopolies and regulating the heck out of them, including support for full data privacy. Part of me is surprised this has not been among their top issues and part of me is not surprised because they simultaneously seem to be in the pocket of big tech. And perhaps dependent on campaign donations from Silicon Valley elites who want no regulation or privacy rights for the average citizen?
3
On one side we have those who believe that government can work and do good. On the other side we have those who believe that government is the source of all our problems.
Those who believe in good government are required to share the process of governing with a group who seek to undermine and destroy the structures of government.
This is untenable and unsustainable. Unless both groups agree on the process (our Constitution), nothing can proceed forward.
Newt Gingrich was the first to engage in scorched-earth politics, back when Bill Clinton was President and Gingrich made Republicans the "Party of No". Now, after 25 years of Republican subversion of our government, was are as close to civil war as any time since 1860.
And I do not see reconciliation coming any time soon.
Trump is not the source of our division. He's merely the pus at the surface of the deeper boil.
34
Those on the right like to spout the slogan that government is the problem, while simultaneously availing themselves of all manner of government benefits. One of my favorite examples of this involves Ammon Bundy, who led the occupation of the Malheur Wildlife Refuge to protest the "tyranny" of government involvement in the business affairs of private citizens. Turns out he took out a $530,000 Small Business Association loan in 2010 to help finance his truck maintenance business in Arizona. The estimated value of the government subsidy was more than $20,000.
Hypocrisy, anyone?
7
I don't have intense arguments about most policy matters. No tax policy, immigration scheme or land use issue is going to get much of a rise out of me in and of itself. So where does the trouble start (at least with me)? It starts with the "gas lighting."
If someone tells me they do not care about Trump's lies, I can at least call it a difference of opinion or political priorities. I might find it weird or even dangerous, but we can have some kind of rational discussion. But when anyone, even family, who tells me Trump is not a liar... or that his predecessors or political opponents even approach his level of dishonesty... that takes things to another place.
Trump is in the same trust category as Alex Jones. Maybe someone wants to make a First Amendment argument about his twitter account. Fine. Agree to disagree. But don't tell me to "keep an open mind" about whether the Sandy Hook shooting was a "hoax" or whether the DNC is trafficking children through some pizza shop.
Similarly, if someone wants to talk about the merits of some wall or a tax cut or whatever, that's fine. Maybe some conservatives actually have a genuine belief in certain policies. If they were the ones actually carrying them out, perhaps they'd get SOME benefit of the doubt. But Trump? No. Even the staunchest conservative understands full well why a reasonable person has abundant reason to distrust the entire Trump administration. Why pretend otherwise?
30
A good aspect of this is that many people are revealing their true nature. Pay attention to who they are and remember their names and faces. Very soon when Trump is gone -- resigned, defeated, however -- Democrats (with their own lesser problems, admittedly) will be in charge. Trump and the Rs have changed the rules, forever as far as I am concerned, and it will be the best thing that has ever happened when the New Way is applied to them. They are really a minority party now and have been for some time. It is only through anti-democratic steps -- voter suppression, gerrymandering, politicians appointed as judges/justices, collusion with Russia -- that they are where they are. The current crop of Rs offer nothing and do not deserve serious consideration. Trump has revealed them as they truly are. That is a Good Thing.
5
French writer, diplomat, freedom fighter Romain Gary said it all. "Patriotism is the love of one's own, he wrote. Nationalism is the hatred of others". Donald Trump is a loud nationalist. Why should one like or even just respect someone who likes someone who hates others ?
21
The story might have added that pouring kerosene on the political fires has become a major profit making opportunity. Perhaps the best example can be found among the cable networks news programs - Fox and MSNBC at the exytemes
7
The Minister at my church is conservative and unfortunately has driven the liberals, including myself, away. I stuck it out for a while...love your enemies, but in the end, I needed a break. I've since found a more liberal church and am now feeling a bit more cherished.
21
As it should be. This isn’t a story about politics becoming more charged and people becoming less tolerant of difference. This is the story of what a population does when it is no longer possible to pretend that Fascism might not be around the corner. We should NOT be friends with people who believe in white supremacy, any more than we should be friends with actual members of the actual KKK (whose former Grand Wizard has been outspoken in his praise for our president and what he represents). When someone you know is trying to behave as though Fascism is fine and that we should “agree to disagree” about ethnic cleansing (explicitly and approvingly referenced by Richard Spencer, whom Bannon is on record as wanting to give a platform to), throwing drinks in faces is not only not crazy: it’s practically civic duty.
13
All of this division was caused by one man - Donald Trump. He gave voice to hatred, intolerance, and division, and he alone is to blame. And it is heartbreaking.
11
This story hints at the true problem that divides Democrats and Republicans. If it were only about the issues, then people would be able to discuss their different positions. Unfortunately, I fear we are talking about basic philosophical differences. Democrats generally believe that people sometimes need a helping hand from the government to help them through a difficult time, while most Republicans seem to feel everyone is capable of helping themselves, so we should not create a situation where people depend on the government. It seems impossible to reconcile the vast gulf between compassion versus abhorrence for the less fortunate in our society.
2
Today we had someone come into our home to give an estimate on some work in our home. He voted for Trump, I did not.
We had an interesting discussion regarding politics without getting into an unpleasant disagreement. We had a back and forth of our views and reasons for them.
The agreement we had is that it is that we have to be willing to listen to each other and understand the reasons we have our individual beliefs, find common ground and compromise on other issues. There is no other way to move forward.
8
I'm a liberal who lives in a conservative neighborhood and has many conservative friends, including supporters of Trump. I have a simple formula for getting along: I only discuss my political views with people who are genuinely interested in them. I'll ask about THEIR views, but I don't argue or criticize them. So far, it's worked for me.
8
True reconciliation has to begin with looking at the facts and going from there; this is the second step. The first step is agreeing on how to identify what is a fact and what is fake news. Science, logic, and a consistent use of probabilities are generally accepted by one side and not the other. (The probability that a gun in a home will hurt someone by accident or mistake or in a family dispute is greater than the probability it will prevent a crime; once this is accepted, rational discussion on gun control becomes much easier.)
We never insist on or do true reconciliation. Instead, we push unsettled disagreements under the rug. We did not settle the race question before or after the Civil War; Lincoln toyed with the idea of sending blacks back to Africa as more workable than living with them in equality, which many white Southerners and Northerners found unthinkable. We did not settle Vietnam or investigate how we gave a landslide victory to a man of Nixon's moral character. We have not reconciled our views on deficits or providing health care or makers and takers or global warming, and we are making little progress towards doing so.
Unless we can develop more appetite and ability to practice true reconciliation, our troubles will bring us down. Agreeing to disagree will be as effective as it was in preventing the Civil War. If we cannot talk to each other, one side must win and then successfully reconstruct the other using its path to truth.
6
For all the advantages the Internet and technology has brought us in the past 25 years, a part of me wishes we could turn back the technological clock to 1990. We simply no longer talk to each other - we text and tweet, with a screen mediating our communications. Content is never inseparable from context and the medium by which it's delivered. Many of these conflicts could be avoided (or at least defused) if people just talked to each other face to face.
It's easy to insult and dismiss someone in a text or tweet; it's much harder to do that looking into a person's eyes.
9
Keep tweeting and posting rants on Facebook everyone. Less job competition for the rest of us who stay off social media.
14
Friendships and families have been frayed here, but not destroyed yet. Trump is the end-game of 30 years of Republican political strategy: use wedge issues, the culture wars, to win at all costs. Don't just oppose policies, but personally attack those who support them. Dehumanize the opposition on racial or cultural grounds, but not explicitly. Create a TV network to promote conspiracy theories be the media for these personal attacks and dehumanization. Trump is diabolically clever and he saw the opportunity to promote himself. To be president, probably not in the beginning. But he was birtherism worked, anti-immigration worked and personal attacks with nicknames worked. He tapped into the worst of our human natures and it worked for him. And whatever works for him is what he does. He lies, and gets away with it. He's rude and crude and shameless. Some see strength, but many of us see a huckster. He lives from divisiveness. He feeds on it, stokes it and Twitter is his medium. The division in the nation benefits him and the former Republican party. He has shown us with the help of social media what many of our fellow citizens really believe and to many of us it is horrible. As one who came of age during the Vietnam era, I thought those days were done. We don't understand how Americans in good faith can support a liar, a philanderer and someone who is so clearly incompetent, destructive and embarrassing to the USA. What's going on?
396
@Joe Smith I think that you are part of the problem. You think all bad things are due to Republicans. I bet there are a few people in this country who think that all bad things are due to liberals. Both of these views of reality are pretty distorted and are certainly based on insufficient facts. It is a lot easier to yell simple minded ideas on social media. Some nuance based on the complexity of reality would be recommended.
5
@Joe Smith - “Trump is the end-game of 30 years of Republican political strategy..”
Hey Joe, perhaps blaming one party for all of these issues is the root of the problem. Both parties play these games. Wake up.
5
@Joe Smith To understand why 40% of Americans consistently approve of the job Trump is doing, we need to reframe the way we look at his voters. It's not what they are for that matters, it's what they are against. Trump defies the normal metrics for success because his voters don't support him for what he does. They love him for what he's against. Trump is against the political establishment ,the media, the Republican Party, the Bushes and the Clintons. Trump is against rapid change which for the working class encompasses everything they had but fear they are losing. Trump is against globalism and unrestricted immigration which has taken jobs from many Americans. It's not that a third of US voters are fervently on the side of Donald Trump - what's more relevant is that they are adamantly on the opposing side of a culture war that's been brewing here since the 1980s. Trump isn't causing this populist revolt, he's reflecting it. It's Conservative values vs Liberal values. Liberals are going to lose. They've been losing at a pretty steady clip for the last six years. During this time we have lost the Presidency, both House of Congress, the Supreme Court, the majority of state legislatures, Governorships, & most important local offices. In 24 states, Dems have almost no political influence. This trend will continue. Why is the Democratic Party in shambles? The majority of voters no longer are buying what the Democrats are selling.
5
Most of Trump's policies are conservative but not offensive or alarming. Trump' conduct is both offensive and alarming:rude, vicious, racist and corrupt. I avoid Trump supporters because I think their tolerance or approval of his conduct is as offensive and alarming as Trump's conduct.
17
That's exactly backward. Trump's idiotic and repulsive behavior ultimately harms no one. It's his horrifying Republican policies, including all-out war on the environment, massive financial corruption, destruction of the educational system, preparations for nuclear war, opposition to gun legislation, racist policies targeting minorities and immigrants, etc that should be the focus of everyone's rage and disgust.
4
I want nothing to do with people who support a crude, ill-bred, racist, misogynistic, homophobic lout. End of discussion.
40
It's as if we've been living in a place, previously supervised and structured. A place that allowed us all, somehow, to exist together, even if in profound political disagreement.
Suddenly, the supervisor walked away, left the post, and allowed people to throw off the rules and become the people they are truly, on the inside. The ugliness exposed is nauseating.
Trump, et al, has opened a huge Pandora's box, and all of the worst urges and ugliest parts of people have climbed out of the sewers, unchecked.
Trump's influence, with unchecked boundaries, unfettered by morality, has allowed people to engage in an unchecked free-for-all, shrugging off norms, rules of decency, and wallowing in a hatred for "the other" I never thought could exist.
To be sure, this existed in many forms previously, and has been playing itself out the last decade in Republican power-grabs to polish gerrymandering into a fine art. "I got mine" has become a point of pride. One-man, one-vote means nothing.
Holding out a hand to those less fortunate, to help someone else get a leg up, seems like a wistful American dream from a past life, never to be repeated.
How can you possibly comunicate with someone so wrapped in hate? Once I see that hate in someone's eyes, I don't feel the need to stay, to persuade someone to let their better angels back in. I'd rather to leave the room to sit in the presence of people who are tender and can still love.
I'm not a religious person, but this feels like hell.
21
It seems to me that the right has promoted an “us vs them” mentality in politics and legislation. Sadly, in trying to fight against that ideology, many on the left are getting sucked into a similar “us vs them” mentality.
It’s feeding the same beast.
5
Like many, I struggle with navigating the political divide between myself (pinko lefty) and my in-laws (military conservatives and Fox News fans, including the editorial content). They are truly good people and I love them dearly, but we have managed to simply avoid talking about contentious topics to keep the peace (and I have left facebook, which helped). Though there are many things regarding which we each have reasonable positions, even overlapping ones (healthcare, local political happenings, an appreciation for national parks), there are others that I am deeply opposed, that I think honestly belies deeply embedded, likely unconscious biases (positions about the police and institutional racism, gay marriage, immigration), which are upsetting. I know they are good and decent, but these blindspots are troubling (I am also a different race from my in-laws, so it can feel delicately personal). It is a good time to return to our philosophers: "Aeschylus’ Oresteia... Athena introduces legal institutions to replace and terminate the cycle of blood vengeance...she announces that blood guilt will now be settled by law, rather than by the Furies, ancient goddesses of revenge. But the Furies are not simply dismissed. Instead, Athena persuades them to join the city, giving them a place of honor beneath the earth, in recognition of their importance for the health of the city."
https://www.neh.gov/about/awards/jefferson-lecture/martha-nussbaum-jeffe...
2
America is devolving and dissolving before our eyes. trump, with his divisive and mendacious demagoguery, is hastening the process, but it's the two-party system, that has us neatly polarized into warring tribes, which is at the core of it. And to say the problem is merely that there's no dialogue or sense of the common good is a gross understatement. We are effectively living in two alternate universes.
Earlier today, I read in this paper about a screening of the just-released Dinesh D'souza film,Death of a Nation, which paints the Democratic party as a collection of Nazis, racist and fascists, and likens trump to Lincoln. The audience in Medina, Ohio lapped it up. According to the article, it "spoke to their deep-seated fears about the fate of the country if Democrats prevail in the November midterms". To those of us on the other side, this seems like insanity. Yet these people are as firmly entrenched in their beliefs as we are. How can we reconcile this?
As much as I personally feel it's critical that the Democrats regain at least one chamber of Congress this fall, and give us a check against trump, I also know it will do nothing to heal the divide. If anything, it will likely exacerbate it. Unless we can produce leaders with a message that resonates with all of us, the pendulum will just continue to swing back and forth, as we slide further into dysfunction and dissolution. Short of that, I feel it will take a catastrophe to remind us that we're all in it together.
184
'How can we reconcile this?'
just had a thought - from the Chinese Mandarin greeting 'have you eaten ?' (che fan le - pronounced 'chur fun ler')
the quickest way to quell troublesome gut feelings is to feed the people - in Australia successful refugee assimilation into local communities tends to start with bring-a-plate and what-can-you-cook sharing of each others' cooking - and suddenly everybody gets along happily and strangers become friends
perhaps more community cookup events where people sit down together over some delicious food - and suddenly that stupid politics seems so petty and unimportant - what is much more important is making friends and keeping and maintaining good social relationships
no-one wants to be lobbing grenades over high walls at strangers (unless encouraged by Rupert Murdoch's FOX News - hmmm - probably time I sold those shares) - everybody just wants to be loved
so I suggest it's time to sit down together - over some delicious Mexican food - drink some sangria - and then try to remember what you thought you disagreed about - it doesn't really matter - we all just want to get along - wouldn't you rather your neighbour wants to help you rather than hate you ... (of course) ...
I think it's definitely about core values, but it's also about how real world policies affect your life. For example, my partner is a Syrian refugee living in Germany. He has been there for 2+ years, is in university studying I.T., fluent in 3 languages, and works to take care of children with special needs. I was trying to get him over here to come visit my family and held out hope because they are supposed to evaluate visa applications on a case by case basis. They didn't even consider him at the interview. Trump's policies have split us apart and now I'm having to move to Germany so we can be together. There are real world consequences to people being terrified of immigration and visitation from nationals of countries they are afraid of. It has severely strained the relationship with my mom, because she continues to support Trump and relies on the conspiracy theories pouring out of conservative media in order to justify everything. It is maddening.
12
You HAVE to move to Germany?!? Most sane people would kill for the opportunity. Go! Live in a civilized nation instead of a racist dung heap! Flee from this place and never look back!
7
These are people on extreme positions but does anybody consider those caught in the middle of political fury? For example, I am not a Trump supporter and will never be. However, there are policy items with which I am closer to GOP. One of these is the need to fix broken immigration system where I do not see any good plan from Democrats. I am also against abortion and enforcement of cultural changes on those who are not ready for that yet. Unfortunately, because of Trump's behavior and threats he poses, I can not vote for Republican candidates since GOP is totally subservient to Trump.
6
Before you get all sanctimonious and blame Trump, do your research better. This country became divided to the core the day Obama got elected.
The underground hate and anger was born that day and has lasted up to today. When the ‘change you can believe in’ never showed up, it fueled passions even further; to show that he was the wrong choice people simply spoke of 8 years of war, fast and furious, DACA, and the penalty for no insurance when they could not afford it all year. The stage was set.
In 2015 for many you did not have to convince them to vote Trump, you just had to say ‘She is with Obama and Nancy Pelosi’ and they started chanting ‘Lock her up! Drain the swamp!’
This was visible for all to see, the nation was Trump Country outside of blue bastions.
In 2016 when this show was over, Blues refused to accept the loss. Immediately after, and up to now, they still wear shirts, caps, hashtags and more, ‘not my president’. And there is no reasoning with Blue at all. Just try to convince them that Trump is their president, a meltdown occurs every single time.
Blue however has failed to use this hate and anger. They cannot wield a single viable candidate for 2020. They say ‘we stand with Nancy Pelosi and Ocasio-Cortez’ and expect all Blues to follow. Ask them, they are not at all convinced this is the way to go.
Can Blue just accept they lost, get along and try to come up with a candidate for 2020?
Or will they continue chanting ‘not my president’ until 2024?
47
There are serious, credible questions about the way the votes have been counted in EVERY election, starting in 2000; Democrats didn't lose, the Elections were STOLEN.
2
@Shark
Well, you are right about one thing, the reaction to Obama started this. I would say that reaction was all about racism, however.
7
A very simple, concise question for you, and really everyone: we know this divide is real, and folks on both sides likely would prefer to see it assuaged; do you—anyone, on either side—think Trump likes or dislikes all this anger, contention, divisiveness? Honest answer, now. And then ask WHY. If this doesn’t provide clarity above all the din, then I can’t imagine simple logic has a chance...
1
How do Trump’s supporters expect to “Make America Great Again” when they can’t even find fitted hats?
New Era or bust.
6
Drive through Ponte Vedra in Florida. It is one of the wealthiest areas in the country. Home to Sawgrass Country Club. They voted 70% for Donald Trump. They elected a tea party representative.
Please tell me that the poor and disenfranchised are the mainstay of Mr Trump. These people are building 10,000 square foot cedar shake cottages and huge mansions on the ocean. I also saw Trump signs on almost every waterfront house in Ormond Beach.
14
I live in Ormond, and I see Trump signs everywhere. Rich and poor, but definitely the majority of the riverfront houses, where the lots alone are worth more than my whole house. Not really a head-scratcher, when you factor in the trillion-dollar tax cuts for those very people.
14
Can we please not devolve into false equivalences?
One side is angry because they (or their husbands) no longer get special privileges because Civil Rights have prevailed for the most part in this country.
The other side is mad, OK I'm furious, that those people placed, in the highest office in the land, an unhinged, compulsively lying, racketeering fraudster who bankrupts businesses, mocks the disabled, attacks gold star families, brags about his success in habitually sexually assaulting women, launched his campaign with racial slurs and cannot condemn the Klan, and brags about his daughter's great body -- well, that's the daughter he would be dating if she weren't his daughter, not the other one by a different ex-wife.
One side is mad that other people get equal rights, and the other side is mad that a truly horrible human being is President and we have to either ignore the news or read about the latest mean-girl tweet rant, or the latest assault on democracy, or the latest suck-up to Putin, or the latest grifter in the Trump administration, or any other parade of horribles the 45 administration has inflicted on the planet. Not the same thing. Not at all.
66
I haven’t liked all presidents but I’ve never felt put down, offended, or repulsed by any of them. The current president has called me (a Democrat) weak, pathetic, unAmerican, treasonous, and unpatriotic. He’s said that I (a Democrat) want illegal immigrants to swarm across the border and bring crime. He’s said that I am responsible for his administration’s policy of separating migrant families apprehended at the border.
He said I have declared war on Law & Order and I want open and unlimited crime. He said I want to be gentle and kind to MS-13 gang members, that ACA is dead because I don’t care! Also he said I want to raise taxes & waste money, I don't want to solve the DACA problem. He said I’m turning down services and security for citizens in favor of services and security for non-citizens that I want to stop paying our troops and government workers, the only thing I want is to raise your taxes and I will only vote for tax increases because I want MASSIVE tax increases & soft, crime producing borders.
He said I’ve have lost my grip on reality but from my vantage point it seems the other way around.
428
@MiND to be fair, the former POTUS said similar things about the other side, although in a more elegant way
6
@MiND As a conservative I would take the mirror image of what you say. On comment boards I have been called racist, traitor, gutter trash and and on just because I voted for Trump. There are a lot of things about Trump I may not like, but the fact is the economy is going well and that really is important. When the left calls Trump voters all kinds of names, I guarantee it changes no minds and just pushes us to support him all the more. Apparently nothing was learned from Clinton’s deplorable comment.
2
No one was more polite than GWB and this paper battered him on a daily basis as a bumbling fool who could not “connect the dots” or alternatively, as close to Hitler as one could get in recent times. Those on the right despised Obama and their outlet, the Tea Party, mostly suburban middle class tax payer types with no violent leanings, were painted as vicious thugs by MSM. Now, according to this article the politics is more divided than ever. Hardly. The MSM just cannot get over its 2016 loss.
9
I mean, to be fair, GWB was indeed an overall kind and generous man. However, his presidency was marred by incompetence and was the worst in several generations based on his legacy and policy outcomes. As much as many despise Trump, what he has done so far policy wise pales in comparison to the severe damage GWB did that lingers to this day.
2
Here’s a story I’ve entertained my progressive friends with. So-o-o, I’m getting back into my car after buying groceries at my local supermarket and I notice a picture of the Donald plastered to the rear side window of the vehicle parked next to me. There, lying on the front seat of the car is one of those MAGA red hats. As my revulsion begins to build and my self-control wanders off, I find myself, 71 years old, female, educated, mannerly, and for the most part, trying to be non-judgemental at all times, - here comes the kicker! - working up a great big wad of sputum and hurling it towards the window. Unfortunately, I’ve never really honed my “projectile spitting” skills so, darn it! , I miss the target and the spit is running down the side of the car. Now I’m really beside myself at how ineffective my attempt at “resistance” turned out to be, so, and here’s where I always get the laughs, I look around furtively and then proceed to spit in my own hand and smear it all over the hideous countenance plastered to the window. I slept like a baby that night.
6
@Mary c. Schuhl
Get professional help, Mary.
Spitting at strangers' cars = a sign of impending derangement.
Get it checked out with a reliable shrink.
8
When one side backs a confirmed liar and the other side doesn't, one can't just say that they differ in opinions and should respect each other. It is clear that one side is deluded and a grave danger to civilization. The deluded side should be bludgeoned with truth until it submits.
15
Political anger doesn’t really capture it. Trump is the culmination of a cultural and dare I say “intellectual” divide in this country. In some ways, it is like the Enlightenment backlash has finally taken power in this country.
It isn’t about tax cuts or even health care, which one can have reasonable disagreements over. It is about whether we will govern our lives and our policies by rational, evidence-based decision making. With Trump and many of his supporters, it is ideology and naked self-interest, often in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary, that wins the policy arguments.
This is deeply troubling to many educated and professional people in this country because it goes against our experience of how the world works and how to avoid serious trouble and it is at odds with following the truth in all its aspects. Societies that follow this path reach a very bad end.
332
@Jazz Paw: Rubbish. I do not support Trump, didn't vote for him and never will, but I find very little that is "intellectually honest" about his opposition. For example, if you support Mueller's investigation, then true intellectual honesty would demand that you support an investigation of Hillary Clinton, Andrew McCabe, James Comey, Bruce Ohr, John Brennan, and anyone else involved with FusionGPS and the dubious FISA warrant. I believe there is more evidence of "Russian collusion" with these people than with Trump's team.
Further, you would also reject the media coverage and support of crass opportunists like Stormy Daniels and Omarosa. There is little intellect between the two put together, and if you're "intellectually honest" you'd see that their role in shaming Trump is purely political, not morally based as the media would like to have you believe. More self-reflection and less self-glorification is what Democrats need.
7
@Joe Schmoe -- no Joe, it doesn't "require" me to support investigating a long list of people,. when there are no grounds to do so.
Further, the Mueller investigation has not identified Trump as the subject of the investigation.
You should think about that.
2
@Joe Schmoe
First, nothing is stopping Trump, the DOJ and the congress from investigating the folks you listed if there is any merit to their cases. All branches of the government are controlled by Trump’s party. Second, Trump and team are distracting you another bait similar to past tricks with respect to Fusion GPS and Steele Dossier. Even if Steele Dossier is ignored and thrown out, Trump is still accountable for his actions specifically around 1) Meetings with Russians in Trump Tower and his response 2)Calling Russians to release Clinton’s emails 3)Coordination with Wikileaks 4) Firing Comey to stop the investigation 5) Intimidating DOJ officials including Sessions. These are hard facts nothing to do with Steele Dossier or Fusion GPS.
2
I was born and lived the first third of my life in Argentina, a country which, like America, was defined as a nation by a civil war. Many countries have had civil wars, but when they happen at the moment the nation coalesces into its final self, the congenital flaw is always there. It doesn't mean people in those countries can't live together, or genuinely feel like a community if nobody exploits the weakness, but it only takes a populist opportunist to make political capital out of exacerbating divisions.
In America's case, I think this problem was exacerbated by the Puritan influence in religion, with the zealotry and extremism that now infects so much of America's pseudo-Christianity (Jesus would be dismayed at most of the things that are said in his name). It was a stroke of genius on England's side to send its religious cranks to America but, given the results, it should be reason enough for America to end the special relationship, if it ever existed.
3
This is like the arsonist yelling "Fire!".
1
The real turning point in America was 1976. I remember it like it was yesterday. I had just graduated from high school. It was the country's bicentennial and I watched in awe as the tall ships entered NY harbor. The Vietnam War that had torn the country apart and plunged our nation into unparalleled depths of depravity and barbarism had finally ended.
This was the critical fork in the road. Would the good people of America, who had fought so hard in the Civil Rights movements, the women's rights movements, the environmental movements seize the reins and guide the country toward a bright future and help us use our wealth and spectacular resources for human betterment or would the darkness of America, the conservatives, the racists, the war lovers, the gun lovers and all that is low and detestable resurface after Vietnam like a malevolent Phoenix? Would the Republicans, so totally discredited on every possible front, through guile, deceit, and boundless ambition, con the country out of its future?
Today, beyond all doubt, we know the answer. We mourn the road not taken but this country's path is now set, the fate of our beautiful planet is now sealed. The worst of our species have won.
15
About a month after Trump won the election, I was on the phone with a cousin and the subject of climate change came up. He said, "Why worry about something you can't change?" I told him he just answered his own question; I worry about threatening things that I have little chance of effectively addressing. Then I asked him if he worried at all about Trump, and he said "Well, he's president now so let's give him a chance and see what he does." I knew right then and there that he was a Trump supporter; he was just being calculating and that maybe he could present it like is was a reasonable choice. That was the last time I spoke to him.
I don't even want to have a conversation with Trump supporters because they applaud our country being torn apart and they are willing and even desperate to close their eyes to what's happening to democracy.
17
I have a friend who used to be a JFK liberal. Now he speaks of "lib-ruls" in a very Fox News fashion; he also voted for Trump. I hesitate to talk to him.because I realized that in this matter I resemble an over-zealous priest trying to bring a heretic back into the fold. It has become that religious a situation.
2
What I find objectionable in many a Trump voter that I have met or have read about is that they do not seem to waver in their support for his policies. Not ANY of the policies. It makes me doubt their ability to evaluate them based on facts and their own moral compass. I had an argument with my aunt, a dedicated Christian, about the separation of families. I pointed out emotionally being cruel to children is this way is not compatible with the compassion a Christian should show; and that even if you think the parents are doing wrong they should also be shown compassion and cared for. Her responses were a parrot of various Trump and Fox lines, remaining steadfast in support of the policy. She should be able to evaluate a policy and say no. Say it should end. "I am a person who supports Trump but I don't support this policy." I voted for Obama but I did not like his policy on drones and thought he was weak in going for ACA instead of something better. But I don't hear that from Trump supporters. Not everything a politician does is going to be good. He needs to hear it from his supporters when he should stop! Why don't his own supporters ever seem to draw the line? It's hard to respectfully listen to and talk with people who don't seem to critically evaluate anything for themselves. I would like to meet a Trump voter who does and talk with them.
358
@AL The supporters have handed off their ability to use logic and reason for the duration. Now, they function as a cult with a single-minded devotion to trump, regardless of what he says, does, proposes, attacks . . . . That's why it's impossible to converse with them. We make points, backed up with evidence, and expect rationality in return. That's not something cult members are capable of as long as they remain in thrall.
3
We are not simply “recoiling at the style of Trumpz politics (sic)”, it is the substance that counts even more. The constant sturm and drang over tweets and name-calling divert us from the damage he is doing to our intelligence, military, healthcare, and schools.
Please let’s keep the actions not the noise front and center, so that we can best prepare to clean up the damage when the tweet storm is over. And it will end, with those complicit to all of the damage called to task to avenge their poor judgement.
7
At least people are engaged in politics and not as apathetic as they used to be.
3
Trump is the leader of a cult of personality. He has no core theory of government, no central ideology driving his actions. Trump leads by bouncing from one side show outrage to the next. The glue is him. America is a family infiltrated with cult followers. People in cults stay in cults until they get cut off from the source of control. I don't see how that is possible.
21
I know some very good people who voted for Trump. To a person they are disgusted by his antics and I refrain from ''I told you so". The hard core I have no communication with nor do I want any. I want to build this country up, not tear it down.
6
I can't believe anyone could come on this forum and claim that what we are experiencing is not political Yes, it may be moral outrage on your part, but the political process is the way we express our morality in a concrete, societal manner. Republicans are using politics in defense of their white, Christian values. What do you think politics is, anyway? Of course you may feel morally outraged at the fact that they will gladly use the political process to strip you and people of like-minded opinions of your right to vote, lock up people of color for frivolous reasons, militarize the border, return us all to a feudalistic system where we are dependent on the largess of the rich, etc. It is political, dear reader, and don't forget it. That is why we must all get involved in the political process and make sure that people who want to stop the degradation of our nation VOTE!
9
A recent piece about Richard Milhouse Nixon reminded how widely despised he was by many Americans for his political activities. And the media, including the NYT duly reported on this hatred.
When I spoke with Trump voters over the past couple of years I was struck how despised the Clintons were. Yet the mainstream media chose to portray all critics of Hillary as hateful racists, misogynists, white supremacists, etc.
Not only was this broad-brush description of her critics unfair but it also had the effect of telling true misogynists, racists, etc. that they had far more support in the population than they actually do.
Poor journalism has consequences.
9
This is a very unhelpful story from the New York Times. You bemoan an unfortunate situation, illustrated with examples that are intended to attract attention and generate more outrage. But then you do nothing to suggest how readers might help fix the problem.
Political opinions, just like any other human points of view, are not simply unquestionable assertions that must be accepted and taken at face value. Any useful opinion or assertion must be supported by facts and logic. Otherwise there is no reason for anyone to take it seriously.
So how about a second NYT article, about how readers can put aside their emotional reactions for the moment and try to engage with one another to explore just *why* they hold such divergent views? I'm sure there must be a lot of helpful information that could be shared from experts in mediation and conflict resolution.
4
@Kyle Hoepner - I dunno. Either you think it’s okay to have a misogynistic racist in the White House, or you don’t. There’s not much middle ground here to discuss.
4
There are few things more disappointing than thinking we know a person over many years, only to discover it was mainly a masked act. When the reveal happens and it becomes apparent that the individual actually supports and defends the hateful racism and startling incivility we are being forced to endure at present, when we suddenly see that behind the mask of sweetness there’s a chasm of hate toward entire ‘other’ groups, it’s a shock to our sensibilities. We are all judged by the company we keep. We each must decide whether to expose ourselves to that or to walk away. It’s a big world and there’s are millions of people who aren’t poisoned by hate. Choose wisely because environment is stronger than will power.
9
In rural Kentucky...no living wage jobs, no healthcare, no educational opportunities, crumbling infrastructure, resurgence of black lung in those coal miners “lucky” enough to be working, planet dying...doesn’t matter...never will. The too frequently activated neural pathways that allow one group to dehumanize another and commit unspeakable (or so we say) atrocities against the other are ramping up right here in the good ole’ US of A. And I don’t seem to see or hear any indigenous native Americans or African Americans on the news channels saying “I never thought I’d see it happening in this country.”
2
It's like your father is a serial abuser and he hits you too, and your mom says he really has a "good side" and you know, in your heart, he is evil.
16
If Secretary Clinton had been elected POTUS, the 13 percent of conservatives willing to stay friends with liberals number would not only be flipped but multiplied. Our conservatives would have us endure a FOX-Trump network news torrent of "RIGGED! ILLEGALS! VOTER FRAUD! BENGHAZI! HILLARY'S EMAILS! LYING PRESS!
Oh wait...
8
I have a friend of many decades who is a Trump supporter. Things can get hot, but the notion that this political divide destroys relationships is overblown. Act like adults, folks. My friend and I have it out regularly, but each time we then move on to cooler topics.
Americans have an childish fear of talking politics, of the challenges of dissension, which I suspect is at bottom a discomfort with actually having to think. Having it out every so often among friends forces one to digest, analyze and look around, to search for persuadable common ground, even if one doesn't readily find it, rather than just parroting the talking points of one's favorite mass media flavor.
Mutual hostile silence is poison in a democracy. It hardens people to indefensible positions, secure only in their own heads. The debatable issues that matter will still be here and look different when the flashpoint of Trump is gone. If We the People don't hash matters out among ourselves, we are not citizens, just targets of media empires and campaign operatives telling us what to feel and think, the better to harvest our eyeballs and votes.
55
@RRI I'm curious how you "hash out" anything with people who support a president and majority in congress who give every indication of being beholden to a foreign adversary. trump and putin use the same mobster playbook, give loans and/or collect dirt on people and then blackmail them when they can't pay or can't bear to have their secrets revealed. We've seen in over and over: I remember a feisty Lindsay Graham who correctly described candidate trump as a liar and a fool. One weekend of golfing with president trump and since then he's done nothing but sing his praises. Graham's email was hacked and nothing's been released publicly -- yet.
I have no truck with traitors doing their best to end our alliances and trash our economy by interfering with our trade relationships, and choose not to engage with those who do.
This article shows how Social Justice Warriors are so twentieth century with their focus on external identities instead of internal ideologies. To wit, there is much more that unites an African-American conservative and a white conservative than unites an African-American conservative and an African-American leftist. Same thing for any race, ethnicity, religion, people, gender identification, et al.
9
Most people here are not commenting on the story. They are the story. They are examples of exactly what the author describes. They are so steadfast in their assertion that their side is "right" and the other is not only "wrong," but "evil." Nothing will change as long as so many people have that mindset because it gives the other side license to behave the exact same way. It is a vicious spiral.
8
did I get this right - Mr. Storey was fired from his job because of the content of a tweet he posted? as a visiting assistant professor, did he give up his free spech rights? did the tweet illegally reveal national security secrets? was he under some kind of gag order? or was he fired, as the article implies, for expressing his personal, political opinion, possibly in jest?
If I were in such a position, I would not wait until tomorrow. I would sue.
12
I love your comment! You use the words "reasonable" and "polite." And then finish by casting blame on someone else?
Can you see any hypocrisy here?
2
I wonder if Vlad can actually do somersaults himself.
2
@Chelle
Once he is ousted I doubt the Russian public will leave him able for somersault.
Trump has simply brought into focus something that has been developing for a while now. The range and depth of civic discourse seems to have been gradually diminished until we seldom express more than fear and rage. These emotions have apparently come to define modern citizenship in a media-driven world where everything becomes a moral panic. How do we move beyond this?
I thought Democrats were supposed to be tolerant.
9
Not of someone trying to destroy our democracy.
14
And in other news: A New Film From Conservative Provocateur Dinesh D’Souza Compares Democrats to Nazis and Mr. Trump to Lincoln.
Read the article and take note of the audience’s glee as they watch a movie that castigates Democrats and casts them firmly as our country’s enemy.
There’s your problem.
18
Somehow, your story is framed in terms of equivalency - what I believe vs. what you believe. But then, there's this: "A number of his posts could have set this friend off, Mr. Narramore admitted. One was a meme calling Hitler 'the first progressive.'” I read that and wondered: what was the friend supposed to do? Was he supposed to laugh that particular post off? "Oh, there goes old Narramore again, with his Hitler jokes…" Are we really going to imagine a future for the country in which such a "view" can be tolerated? I hope not. Because it really isn't a view at all, but a provocative tactic, endlessly repeated, right out of the Rove/Atwater playbook. Do we really have to keep pretending that the rhetoric of the left is as consistently divisive as the rhetoric of the right? How do you find your way to civility and comity when one "side" shows zero interest in even trying?
18
@Kent Jones
This is certainly a feature of the most committed Trump junkies. They delight in their ability to provoke disgust in their opposition. I can ignore them when they are just citizens who post online. The difference with Trump, and with the Gingrich crowd, is that they are relentless even when in office about the constant provocation and lying about easily verifiable facts. They show their loyalty to each other by telling bigger and more disgusting lies and getting each other to agree with them. It islike drinking the Jonestown Kool-Aid, but they don’t die of it. Instead they just double down.
I’m sure he has many voters who voted for him out of frustration and desperation about the economic situation. The most visible supporters of his online are probably deranged political junkies who need a conflict to feel alive. Sorry to see that there are so many.
3
My five siblings all voted for Trump. My best friend, a former roommate from the 70's, voted for Trump. People cheer Trump at his rallies after he's said something that only a bumbling fool would say. And millions of Americans think Donald Trump is a Christian. I just don't understand. Can they all be that stupid?
Yes!
That is what Trump has tapped into. The notion that Democrats somehow let these people down and left the door open for someone like Trump is absurd. There is absolutely nothing redeeming about Donald Trump. He is horrible for America, including his own voters. He is the most divisive president in our history. He's a narcissist who attacks anyone who criticizes him, including our most sacred institutions.
It's not political anger. It's political stupidity. It's 60 million morons who fell for a TV show host who claimed he could make America great again (when we were already great). He lied about the unemployment rate to undermine Obama's success. He bellowed about the rust belt, something that happened 30 years ago, and manufacturing jobs, even though we have a service-based economy. He's taking credit for an economy that Obama built. Please, everyone, do not pander to these idiots. Call them idiots to their faces. That IS the high road.
32
Political disagreement is a blessing and a curse, both.
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The disagreement is causing people to find the courage to debate and to care more deeply about politics and about personal matters.
Recently, I saw the auto license plate: MAKE WAVS
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Making waves can be a good thing, personally and for the nation.
Trump, in a way, is a blessing, because he makes waves, every day.
Please are starting to wake up and get involved in various debates.
But Trump might also be seen as a curse, in that he has turned debate into hostility and into threats against democracy. itself.
Perhaps, we can begin to bridge the gap between the sides, now.
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As long as newspapers need to troll for clicks newspapers will feed their base. The fact is, advertising culture has taken over all the news media, to the detriment of civil society.
10
"Reflecting on the direction he thinks the country is heading in under Mr. Trump and the Republican Party, he added that he had no regrets about the tweet. “I don’t apologize for holding our politicians or those who elect our politicians accountable,” he said. Unable to make much of a living on his part-time jobs ... he is thinking of moving cities and going back to school to become an urban planner." C'mon up to New York City, Prof. Storey! You sound like our kind of guy (and we got beaches, too!).
4
Bertrand Russell made it very clear in this letter to Oswald Mosley, founder of the British Union of Fascists. We have no obligation to mix with or try to change the attitudes of those who espouse hatred and racism. We will not change them. We should instead focus all our energies on continuing to try to make the world better, according to our liberal and progressive values.
Dear Sir Oswald,
Thank you for your letter and for your enclosures. I have given some thought to our recent correspondence. It is always difficult to decide on how to respond to people whose ethos is so alien and, in fact, repellent to one’s own. It is not that I take exception to the general points made by you but that every ounce of my energy has been devoted to an active opposition to cruel bigotry, compulsive violence, and the sadistic persecution which has characterised the philosophy and practice of fascism.
I feel obliged to say that the emotional universes we inhabit are so distinct, and in deepest ways opposed, that nothing fruitful or sincere could ever emerge from association between us.
I should like you to understand the intensity of this conviction on my part. It is not out of any attempt to be rude that I say this but because of all that I value in human experience and human achievement.
Yours sincerely,
Bertrand Russell
26
our national division did not happen by accident, and it was not all natural evolution. we didn't jump; we wuz pushed.
the line of culprits starts to the right, yes right there behind Mr. Putin, Mr. Murdock, Mr. Ailes, Mr. Limbaugh, and the rest of the fulminating dividers who satisfy their objectives and their egos cultivating division.
11
Finally, it is recognized that for some of us, this IS about character, and indeed, about judgment and intelligence, to boot. Yet it is more than Trump's style which I wholly reject; it's the substance, as well. Thus, to me, it says something about your character that you support actively traumatizing and harming children in furtherance of a policy goal. It says something about who you truly are as a human being when you share the same policy goals as racists, Nazis, and white supremicists, and, no to be absolutely clear, there are NO good people among those groups. It says something about your judgment that you would entrust such an obviously and blatantly unqualified individual as Trump with something as sacred as the Presidency, and further, that you would continue to support him while he groveled before our most dangerous adversary on the international stage, to the astonishment of the entire world. And it says something about your intelligence that you expect that handing the country over to this narcissistic, ignorant, lying, amoral, pathetically needy and fragile imbecile is going to "Make America Great Again".
13
There is nothing left to the united states, nothing that unifies the people who live in its boundaries. It is time to recognize the hard fact and dissolved this failed country.
#calexit
6
What a defeatist! Sad. I have no ideal what part of California you live in. But I would not characterize the United States, at this moment facing its greatest challenge in decades, as a "failed country." A troubled and divided country, yes. But not a failed one.
There are millions of Americans across the country, from coast to coast, unified, organized, and determined, who are working together to help restore sobriety, civility, good & wise governance, as well as uphold and defend our democratic values that once made the United States a wise and compassionate country .
And so, I take to heart the following words from the preamble to the Constitution --- "to form a more perfect Union" --- which help bolster my faith, that despite today's seemingly insoluble problems, the greater good will prevail and the United States will emerge from the present darkness as a better country for all.
5
To the people calling out those of us who are scared: I am an immigrant who came here legally and has never committed any crimes. Do you realize what it is like to be an immigrant in this country today? How would you feel if your neighbors turned on you and started falsely accusing you of crimes? If they put innocent people, including children, behind bars, in violation of YOUR laws and Constitution. Would you feel comfortable if you lived in China and the Communist party started ranting about Americans being rapists and vermin? It is evil and unjust. YOU are protecting these people who attack children. YOU want this. I don't. And I never will. Shame on you. I will never forgive you. If you hate 98% of humanity, you are incapable of real love and decency. You deserve your current president.
53
@MC
Thank you for your voice. Please keep speaking out, and stay strong. You have allies here, too.
1
Interesting that ALL comments to this article come from one side of the divide. Though it is likely those from the other side don't read the NYT, it is telling nonetheless. Americans who support neither Trump nor ultra liberal ideology - that is most Americans - choose not to attempt political discourse with either side. If one does get the courage to do so, they are immediately labeled and negated (read Soren Kierkegaard). Re-read the comments - a lot of labeling! Please fellow citizens, use some intellectual integrity and try to listen to one another. The outrage machine is a disastrous distraction.
6
My whole family is Republican. My older brother stopped speaking to me when I voted for Obama. During Obama's last year in office, my mom died. We decided to bury the hatchet. We wouldn't discuss politics. Of course I could not go on any of their social media sites because if read the nonsense they wrote, I could not continue to stay neutral. It worked for a while. Right after the Parkland shooting my brother was on LinkedIn spouting off about guns and liberals. I couldn't look away. As I read it, I was overcome with rage. My heart was racing. I was shaking all over. I've never experienced that kind of physical rage before. It was like all my Trump disgust that I kept under wraps begin to flow like hot lava. My brother was right in it's path. I let him have it. He's a Trump Evangelical and I trashed him six ways to Sunday. We no longer speak.
385
so you're admitting that, even as an adult, you can't control yourself when reading something you don't like, to the point of ruining family relationships. sounds like a temper tantrum from a 2 year old.
5
If the fact of dead schoolchildren stirs absolutely no passion in you, I wouldn’t go considering it something to brag about.
Caring hurts. Caring demands courage and the strength of character to speak what’s in your heart even if it will not be popular. Icy detachment is a luxury that not all of us can emotionally afford.
8
@Julie R
Good for you. You cut the cancer out you don't talk to it.
4
"There was strong consensus about who was at fault: 47 percent said they blame Mr. Trump more; 37 percent said Democrats."
I think I could get a strong consensus that those numbers don't represent a strong consensus.
6
Living in Texas, one would alienate oneself if one refused to associate with Trump voters, and at least on the surface, many of them actually share a similar level of disgust with him. So why on Earth did they vote for him? The reason is usually something like, “I can’t stand Trump, but he’s better than Hillary.” This is not a satisfying explanation, and even confirms my suspicions about their lack of character. So basically, I just have to compartmentalize and practice self-delusion in order to maintain my relationships with Trump voters.
13
As long as the GOP and Trump are for using coal and oil to further damage my planet I will always be against what they stand for . There is no common ground. You are either for saving the earth or not.
3
Winning hurts! #RESIST all the winning.
2
I don't adore or admire any politician (left or right) but it is very depressing to see the kind of adoration that Trump supporters place on a person who is a known cheater, liar and has no redeeming traits other than he is rich and famous. Would these same people also support/adore Kim Kardashian?
14
The anger of the present reminds us of great angers of the past.
When Queen Mary of England ascended the throne she burned hundreds of non-Catholics at the stake.
During the 30 years war (1618-48) it is said that 8 million were killed in fighting over which of two versions of Christianity is valid: Catholicism or Lutheranism.
It may be of course that both sides were wrong. Perhaps there is no God, or at least no God like that described in the Holy Scriptures.
People learned the art of convoluted reasoning by trying to justify statements written in the Bible. Taken literally, the Bible makes it clear that the earth is only 6000 years old.
I was raised a Seventh-day Adventist, and SDA scientists expended great effort in explaining how the Grand Canyon could be created by Noah's flood, how radioactive age-dating was flawed, and how Piltdown Man was a result of amalgamation between man and beast.
Similar convoluted reasoning is utilized by both major political parties.
A universal health care system would not be complicated. Why have Democrats pretended to support it, only to back away when success seemed assured? Is it donations from health care companies?
Why does nobody talk about the 36% increase in US population since 1986 when we passed a law outlawing illegal immigration?
For that matter, why do liberals not see that global warming is caused by population growth?
In politics, both political parties can be devastatingly wrong.
8
Elsewhere in today's digital edition of The Times is a report on the screening of a new "documentary" by the conservative provocateur Dinesh d'Souza in Ohio. The film, which is rife with falsehoods and portrays Democrats as akin to Hitler in their beliefs, was met with approval by the right-wing Republicans (is there any other kind these days?) who saw it.
When Republicans regain their sanity (hey, anything's possible) and want to engage on the basis of fact and a sincere recognition that, whether Republican or Democrat, we're all Americans who want the best for each other and our country, we Democrats should be prepared to meet them halfway. Right now, I expect to be waiting a REEEAAALLLY long time.
15
Now we know why Trump pardoned him.
4
"Mr. Trump’s style of politics" is not the issue.
That he is lying, scheming, racist, and misogynist and "you" support him is the issue.
That he is dismantling, with the help of Congress, the protections for 90% of the population and "you" still support him, that is the issue.
That he and his family and friends are enriching themselves at the expense of the American people and "you" still support him, that is the issue.
This is not about "style".
Finally people are paying attention is the best I can come up with.
20
Thank you for contributing an intelligent comment! For some reason there seems to be a lot of belligerent babbling going on in this comments section today, from BOTH sides of the divide...
I have learned (from long conversations with Trump-supporting family and friends) that if there’s anyone America hates more than a black man, it’s a woman.
29
@Kathleen I am a Trump supporter and your statement of knowledge is outrageous!
4
Internal divide is usually a symptom, not the cause, of the decline of an Empire. This is exactly the case of the USA now.
This is completely different from the Civil War, because, in that situation, the USA was already essentially two countries: the sui generis North (Union) and the classic Portuguese-Spanish style colony economy of the South (Confederates). There was a tension between this obvious geographical division since the Independence itself, which was made worse with Andrew Jackson's expansion to the South, which strenghtened the future Confederate's position in the Congress (at the time, holder of true power in the USA -- the POTUS only became the most powerful office after the crisis of 1929). This tension resulted in the non-annexation of Cuba, which Thomas Jefferson considered the Union's natural frontier.
In other words, the Civil War was a war of ascension, of progress, because the minoritary North became the hegemon model of the USA. This created a material base for the transformation of the USA in a capitalist world power, antagonising the British and, in the 20th Century, the Germans. With the annexation of Hawaii and subjugation of Japan, the USA would also become the Pacific superpower.
Those episodes are completely different from Trump. After 2003, the USA showed clear signs of exaustion, to be crowned in 2008. For the first time, American imperium related inversely with the quality of life of its own population (the end of the American Dream).
8
Maybe in your world political anger exists , but not here.
I live in Trump Country. Some people went or will go to his rallies and have fun....They tell me about it. After that they go on with their lives. They don't talk about politics. I may be the only one in the area with a NYTimes subscription !
Soon they will go to the High School football games and then to the local diners or brew pubs .It's not what is being reported here.
Then on Saturday mow the lawn
Sunday - church.
Monday some leave real early and drive to construction sites.
They work with folks of all colors. ( matters nothing to most here) but I know many readers here measure everything in life by race.
Some drive to the high tech areas around 30 miles away and work.
No politics, really. You folks should try it!
13
@Joe Paper
Hmmmm. No politics? That's how democracies die. When people do not pay attention. About half of our electorate can't be bothered to vote. So no thanks.
9
@LFK
Your right about that. Some only vote in the general and have no idea why they are placing that vote. Many are told who to vote for, they are driven in busses to the polls , they have been lied to for over 50 years. Only now are they getting employment and opportunity that they have been waiting for. They didn't show up to vote for her last cycle and now are being rewarded for it. That is amazing.
1
I dont worry about Trump, he is 72 and will be gone sooner or later.
I am worried that 63 million Americans voted for him.
23
Given the animosity between the parties, I wonder what the state of affairs will be when Trump loses (?!) in 2020. Will the right simply hide under a rock? Not likely. The current acrimony will probably go on for at least another decade or two, regardless of who is in the White House.
3
@Jsailor - No, recent history shows the left has a lock on acrimony, especially that snowflakey, unhinged, whining kind.
2
There is no doubt that the political temperature has risen sharply since the 2016 election. But it is more than just Trump, although Trump's antics & tweets have made everything so much worse. It is really the moral outrage that so many on the left have, not just to Trump & his supporters, but to virtually all Republicans, even those who are appalled by Trump's behavior. To be a Republican now is to be shunned by many liberal Democrats, even friends & relatives.
Maybe the liberal left should tone down its moral outrage & demonization against the rest of us who do not share their beliefs. Politics is not religion and it should not involve the kind of fanaticism that controls the beliefs of some who have no tolerance for the beliefs of others. True, we may not like Trump, but he will be gone some day and we will still have to get along with each other and respect each other's beliefs. The measure of intolerance of those on the left currently exceeds the intolerance of those on the right. It has been that way since Bush was president. It is just worse now.
It appears that everything that Russia wanted to accomplish with its interference in our politics has been realized. Americans are at each other's throats more than anytime since the Civil War. The intolerance factor has risen accordingly as reported in the article. But as long as Trump is president, there will continue to be the kind of bickering we see all around us and it impedes true pollical discourse.
9
Intolerance of the left, intolerance of the right: false equivalence.
5
I have no problem with people I know (mostly former colleagues) who voted for Trump even though I am pretty progressive. They are entitled to their views. We just don't talk politics or economics if we are real friends and want to continue the relationship. It's too fraught. What I will not tolerate are ad hominem attacks against me from people whose views differ from mine, and ad hominem attacks on public figures who are progressives. And, I feel the same way when progressives make outrageous, exaggerated claims against conservatives. I will call out friends on FB who do this kind of thing. There is no excuse for anyone knocking off the MAGA hat of a stranger in a restaurant. There is no excuse for making threats of violence against someone who has expressed a disagreeable opinion on social media.
114
I agree with your sentiments but there are characteristics of some hardcore Trump supporters that really get under my skin. One of them is how they seem to feel the need, like one of the persons mentioned in the article, to gloat and otherwise put in display in an “in your face” manner their ardent feelings about the president. This includes wearing MAGA hats, Tee shirts, or other paraphernalia, and not just at one of Trump’s rallies. I don’t recall ever seeing anything like this following an election, especially this late after the fact. It has often seemed to me that they are more like fans of a team that just won the Super Bowl. It gives them something to brag about even if it otherwise has had little positive effect on their lives. Most of the Trump voters I know or have come in contact with are not like that. I may not agree with them, I may be disappointed in their decision and think they are wrong-headed but at least they seem to have the decency and maturity to understand that confrontational political activities are best left to the politicians themselves.
1
Sorry, but I cannot buy it when Frank Luntz is depicted as disillusioned with his party. He is a chief instigator of the divisiveness that plagues the US political system today. The Republicans are the root of all of our problems and the faster they get thrown out - one way or another - the better.
4
It certainly is the case that television and print media have demonized Trump, Trump supporters and those that are just plain not Democrats. But, moreover, their propaganda is at an intensity much higher than for Bush. This, in turn, stokes the echo chambers on 'both' sides.
This must be an intended strategy of the combined Democrat Party and media. Whether it has gone beyond what they intended, we may never know.
Just as an experiment: if the media toned down their incessant criticism, hyperbole and, yes, fake news; I wonder if the civil discourse would tone down as well.
Not holding my breath for this bit of science...
10
Trump loves dividing the country. Trump wins. People hate each other; Trump/GOP/Russia is the winner. You can not defend locking up kids; killing kids in Yemen; selling political office to the highest bidder; giving the rich tons of free money and calling it tax reform. Facts are facts. America is far worse off after Trump took office. Ray Sipe
7
I noticed the division occurring during the Bush 2 years, but it exploded under Obama. The observation of this depends somewhat on where you live. Myself, a liberal transplanted to the South, saw it in shocking ways, most of it outright racism in a way I had naively thought was rare. So yes, this started to disturb me and color how I felt about Republicans. Watching a Republican Congressman shout "you lie" during the State of the Union and then become a hero for this, the birth of the Tea Party under a black President while Bush exploded the deficit and not a peep. Trump and his sickening Birtherism. And then his election. Pretty horrifying. To me it seemed and still does that it was a way of giving the middle finger to having a black president for 8 years. Oh of course there are a myriad of other reasons. But when people I know still support him, yes I question their character, how could I not?
533
@LFK Even from this distance of being a South African I have felt the partisan divide becoming more pronounced during the two terms of the Bush presidency. The Florida vote results created a deep divide. The Tea Party certainly negated whatever moderate positions some old-school Republicans might have held. I still remember G H Bush calling Reaganomics voodoo-nomics back in that primaries campaign. I really blame Reaganism for the decline into insane populism, but tHe Democrats are not without flaws, leaning far too easily to questionable positions of political correctness in narratives that should be an embarrasment to social scientists. My best suggestion here from the Cape of Good Hope is: ROBERT REDFORD FOR PRESIDENT!!!
1
@LFK I can relate to your last sentence. If a person who behaved like Trump were simply a mutual acquaintance of a friend and myself and he or she thought highly of this person, I would have NOTHING to do with this friend. Questionable character is just the tip of the iceberg!
2
@LFK
Of all the comments I have read here, yours uses the key word in this whole debate between Trumpers and the rest of us: "character".
If someone can say to me that they have policy agreements with Trump (taxes, tariffs) - but they disagree with his style and treatment of people, I would say they have some "character".
Those who support Trump in every way and demonize those of us who simply have differing political positions and ask that our president act with dignity and integrity - have no character. They have gone to the dark side and must be called out, condemned.
This is a war for the very character of the nation. This is a war for what we want our children to admire or not.
It is also so ironic that the religious leaders who previously have asked us to have "character" are either supportive of this philandering, lying, morally bankrupt, cruel beast of a man - or have gone silent for fear of losing their congregations. Just like the career politicians.
One cause for all this political anger is that we are truly divided when it comes to voting.Gerrymandering has led to solid red or blue districts.Incumbents are likely to get re-elected and serve many terms and attain unusual power.If the voting districts were drawn uniformly then each election would allow for a new candidate more responsive to the needs of the district.There would not be this power grab in Congress with big money supporting candidates in predictable districts.
8
While I see the disappointment with Trump, I don’t see the same level of onus on American people who have elected him. Nearly 50% of the population voted for him, and he still commands a significant overt support. With Trump, we know who he is, and what he has well in advance. For example, Romney, a moderate Republican with flexible views, ex-governor of a liberal state, who called out Trump openly in 2016, but still couldn’t vote for Hillary. By squandering his valuable vote, who couldn’t think beyond the perceptions, he showed how an ordinary person thinks. There are many examples like this with a few exceptions, and notable republicans. The fact that Trump still commands a significant female support is beyond reason.
I’ve seen other democracies in the world first hand, and my understanding is that, as long as we continue to vote based on single issues, especially issues such as gun rights, immigration or other emotional matters, it’s hard to advance the progress and the thinking. These issues are not new, have been there since the beginning, and should be established and non-issues by this time. With Obama, we have shown the world that we too can rise like other democracies such as UK/Germany/India, who have the history of electing leaders from different gender/faith/religion, but with Trump, we drained the threshold of presidential leadership to a level unfathomable.
3
@nmt
No. Roughly 50% of eligible voters actually vote. And less than 50% of those who did vote voted for Trump. So about 25% of eligible voters voted for him.
"nmt" wrote:
"... Nearly 50% of the population voted for him, ..."
4
@nmt The option was Hillary, so IMHO, 1/2 the American people would have got what they wanted either way: a loathsome person along with a few policies they endorse.
3
@nmt
Why is your emotional comment all about gender and race?
2
The pressure in the crack pot has been increasing for more than thirty years, although most of America, lead by the media, failed to notice it. Confusion lead to frustration. Ceaseless frustration lead to anger. Anger will is leading to rage.
Voices that have been crying out for a generation were disparaged, discouraged, discredited, and silenced by a class of winners who kept winning at a game that they rigged in their favor.
The current state of affairs is part of a process. The earliest actors who got us here included Ronald Reagan, Reagan Republicans, Bill Clinton Clinton Democrats alike. Things degenerated towards absurdity when G.W.Bush could talk about torture as harsh interrogation; and, a tax system was devised to reward America's most affluent people by designated them as job creators - with all the religious connotation to the designation.
Donald Trump is a modern day Caesar. He saw an opportunity to pick up the pieces, just like Julius Caesar, and declare himself America's Caesar. Americans have slept for far too long.
5
His wife said, "If you love me more than Trump, why aren't you leaving pictures of me around the house?"
2
For Bill: wait till your cost of living because of Trump tariffs has multiplied enormously like mine, and that of many others, before you point the finger at those of us who are “disappointed.” Your disappointment is coming unless you are among the 1% elite Republicans benefiting from this President’s crazily painful decisions.
6
anyone else notice a striking similarity between political and religious rancor? -- the moral superiority, the ranting about a mythical past of founding prophets and holy constitutional text, the superstitious stories about cutting wastes, draining swamps, ending evil and creating a paradise on earth ... the hypocrisy and futility at the core?
i'm an atheist, and i can live around almost anyone so long as they don't get preachy and sanctimonious in my face. and once i got religion in its proper perspective, i realized i could do the same with politics.
detach from it all, and you might see that things keep going in exactly the same direction they were going before.
population growing, forests burning, tides rising, bridges collapsing; all the while corporations getting bigger and richer and technology tightening its grip on lives and minds. meanwhile, those hard fought legislatures do nothing substantive because money really is the only voter that counts.
so when the shouting starts in that gaggle of gimme caps and blazon sweatwear, just relax, breathe deep. and enjoy your day as much as you still can.
10
@drollere Nice. Just give up? Do you have kids? Do you care about their future? We may be too late to stop climate change but we can slow it down for them. Ignoring it is a cop out.
1
For those who point out the incivility of Trump and all his supporters, all the deplorables and what-not, let's not forget Kathy Griffin with Trumps's decapitated head, antifa, left-wing activist Hodgkinson gunning down Republican members of Congress at a baseball game, Hollywood's animosity against Trump, Maxine Waters encouraging her fans to attack Trump supporters.
It goes both ways. And until we see and report evils (and positives) on both sides of the political/cultural aisle, you'll never heal the division. But is this what the media truly desires?
12
Incivility and indecorum, regularly and unabashedly practiced by the (barely) elected President of the United States, versus those characteristics practiced by the citizenry, are two completely different things. Having been elected to high office (actually, any office) should confer an obligation to the voters to moderate one’s behavior and avoid insulting large, or even small, blocks of those voters. Should, I repeat.
5
@David Y.S. The media desires impeachment because Trump is legitimate in every way except political.
1
Our so called "United" States are in a cold civil war. I predict there will be an event that sparks a new hot civil war within 3 years. The country is just too divided to remain at peace. Worse times are coming.
4
@jwp
Not so sure I agree about ignition into a "hot" war, but I absolutely agree that we are in a civil cold war. The future that I see for the US is a mirror of the collapse the USSR. No shots fired, just a slide into oligarchy and kleptocracy, with eventual impotence at the federal level resulting in privatization of everything.
1
As Strother Martin, the prison ward in the movie Cool Hand Luke said: What we have here is a communication problem. Some men....ya just can't reach.
In this frigid polarized climate, Strothers words are even more pronounced, because to those who have already made up their minds, there IS no discussion. I like to think of it as blinders we put on. Or cons we fall for. The quickest way to alienate or further entrench someone is to point this out.
I'm not going to my grave hating on half the population. Personally, I think Trump will do himself in. That doesn't mean we can't protest, campaign, and vote.
2
What does it say about Ms. Meador’s husband that he could easily choose a different coffee mug (say, “World’s Greatest Husband”) or do his own dishwashing, but instead picks a mug he knows will upset his wife and then leaves it for her to clean? Is her hurt about Mr. Trump or about a spouse who treats her with less than the care, kindness, and respect that she deserves? Loving or hating Trump is no excuse to abrogate the golden rule.
22
All the media bashing in the world won’t change the fact that millions of Americans *chose* to make a t.v. game-show host, serial philanderer, habitual enemy of the truth, braggart the POTUS. If that’s not grounds for anger, disappointment, and estrangement, I don’t know what is.
15
@Jackson True, but does it justify the calls for incivility and increasingly, violence as proposed by some commentators on this thread?
2
Lots of commentary on this, as would be expected. The responses about the media and which of all are biased, left, right, etc., varies greatly. The Boston Globe recently asked some 400 newspapers throughout the country to express their opinions on the assault on the media by POT. I believe most of us do not like to think we are biased or stupid for our beliefs. However, if one reads across many opinions, many mix past presidents, candidates, emotions, facts and figures to attempt to place their beliefs on a sort of Richter scale that is fair and balanced. Can't have it that way, as someone has said: y ou can have your opinions, but facts are just that; FACTS. There's a standard the good ones follow, whether newspapers, television, writers, and so forth. READ.
1
The partisan nature of American politics isn't at its zenith. Think of National Guards killing US students protesting the Vietnam War at Kent State. Why 2018 feels worse is because of three reasons:
1) Trump is activity encouraging spiteful political conflict, starting with real violence at his rallies in 2015-16 ("Get him outta here...") that the nation watched in awe as reality tv;
2) Social media has given everyone a mega phone and perpetual camera/recorded. Led by the capitalists at Twitter who can't summon enough courage to ban Trump for TOU violations, Silicon Valley has created a virtual Roman coliseum for people to rip one another to shreds; and
3) #2 and the 'net have raised a generation who belief "facts" are not objective, but simply inconvenient words if they are an affront to your views or goals.
A huge step to reducing the clamor would be to pull the plug on Trump's twitter account and make him speak and write like every other president in the history of our nation. Then there would be less meat in the ring for the crowds to pounce on.
3
I would ask Trump supporters to please read this Op ed in the WAPO.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/our-republic-will-never-be-the-s...
Please allow yourselves to be objective and ask yourself after you have read this if you still feel the same about DT.
I am not trying to convince anyone of anything, but this piece shows the danger and the impact on our Democracy. If anyone truly cares about our Democracy, they should read this. Please. I am begging you to be reasonable and step outside of the "Trump bubble" for a few minutes and see what I see.
2
Ken Storey gets fired for an "instant karma" comment about Texans. Rush Limbaugh, paid over $100+ million for his nationally syndicated show, tells people in Florida that hurricane Irma is a over hyped liberal scam to frighten them into believing in climate change. The first is an honest opinion lacking empathy, the latter is a dangerous lie. Typical of the falsehoods and conspiracies that the hucksters of the right use to cash in on the right wing cult of "alt-facts" and hate. While they profit from the liquidation of our institutions and our democracy.
7
I follow and read a lot of American history and there have been periods of extreme partisan divide in periods of difficult economic or social issues, for example during the Civil war and the 1930s Depression. I think today we face mounting wealth and income concentration in the U.S. and a demagogue in the White House using every racist, xenophobic, divisive and mean trick to keep the privileges for the rich to deceive white working class and rural whites. the partisan divide will go away when the demagogue is replaced by a progressive who uses government powers to help the lower 90%.
6
It's sad that these comments prove the very point the article lays out.
12
There are times in history when anger is justified, this is one of those eras! How can anyone with any morals or values condone the constant lies by the man who is president?!
How can anyone condone his veiled and sometimes not-so veiled racism?!
How can anyone with a heart, who claims to be Christian (as many of his supporters do) accept and support that children have been separated from their families?! Put into detention centers?! And no....we do not want "open borders" we want fair and just immigration laws so that everyone has a fair chance to enter legally!
How can anyone condone Donald's obvious fondness for a ruthless, evil and downright enemy of Democracy, Putin?! Putin has clearly waged a cyber war against our Democracy and the congressional Republicans stand by doing absolutely NOTHING while it's evident that Russia has infiltrated Florida's Voter registration system?! And who knows which others?
Yes, millions of us are angry and justly so! We are not just Democrats, we are Independents and Moderate Republicans. My husband, is an Independent who voted for George W. Bush and has since cast his votes for Democrats. All one has to do is lay attention, know our history and stay informed with a myriad of newspapers .....and you too will SEE that there is a would-be-tyrant in the White House who wants to dismantle our system of government!
Who will fight for our Republic, for our Freedoms and our Democracy IF, We, the People do not?!
7
There are some matters which define a person. For some, death penalty, for others waterboarding and for most people, Trump.
Everyone can live or converse with a neurotic person, but it's hard work at times.
During the eight years of Obama's disasterous reign... horrible economy, bozo foreign policy maneuvers, etc., etc. I quietly waited it out... through two terms. Never took to the streets, interrupted restaurant meals of folks with opposing views, refused folks with an opposing view service at my place of business, didn't call for boycotts, also didn't call for "resistance".
In fact, I actually remained friendly to friends and relatives who voted for Obama.
Bottom line.... a substantial percentage of the left / liberal leaning citizens of this country have become irrational, hysterical and are acting like a bunch of two year olds.
Grow up folks... you live in a democracy.
11
Fortunately, many people around me do not care for Trump at all. Nobody in my family likes him, none of my friends like him, and nobody I see on a regular basis has an affinity for him, either. So conflict over Trump does not exist in my life.
After a year during which no gathering was complete without a long discussion of how terrible Trump is, most everyone agreed that it was time to stop talking about him, and start doing something positive to get rid of him.
Now, we all donate our money and time to electing Democrats to every office we can this November. Regaining political balance in the state legislatures is also an important task. We cannot have entire states controlled by one party, and one party only. It leads to corruption and graft, because there is no one with enough power to exercise oversight and hold legislators accountable to the people they are supposed to represent.
Trump has become secondary to the task of restoring political balance, and promoting representatives who will work to represent everyone, not just the fat cats who donate large sums of money. Get rid of their influence, and we will ultimately get rid of Trump.
19
Melania may be many negatives things, but I certainly understand why she cried when she found out Trump won the presidency.
@Wally Wolf Don't spouses hate it when their spouse is right again?
1
It is not simply about Trump's "tone" or the chaos of his incompetence. The harsh reality is that Trump supporters and progressives not only do not share values, we don't even share epistemologies.
This creates very real policy differences reflected in the legislation that has been passed since Trump and the Republicans gained all three branches of government, such as the massive tax cuts for the wealthy, the roll back of basic regulatory functions of government, and the casual attitude towards rule of law. On the left, we see the gerrymandering, voter repression, and potential hacking of the vote as existential threats to democracy. And growing denial of empirical science appears to many as a threat to humanity itself.
The Americas that each side envisions are completely different and each is utterly intolerable to the other side. These differences are not something that can be overcome by compromise; they are too fundamental for that.
216
@veblen's dog baloney! the "sides" as you describe them are the sides' fringes only.
3
@veblen's dog
This is exactly correct. Epistemology is the correct term. You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts. The Right has decided that they are.
dear Thor,
don't worry.
if the right prevails, all the good people will be saved by the Rapture, which is coming soon. they don't have the same concerns as he left has, because their view of the world is totally different., eg, unrealistic.
if the left prevails, greed and ignorance will destroy us all, also probably pretty soon, and nobody will be saved by a superstitious deus ex machina.
but just imagine going out while wearing a $15,000 ostrich skin jacket! now that's leisure class!
The Trump mess is trickling down. The anti-Trump folks have every reason to be dissatisfied.
For example, I recently attended a small international conference at a university in Virginia. One of the attendees who had recently been elected president caused a great deal of discontent. A few of us already knew that he had a pro-Trump online presence. I, however, have never read his posts. We were all shocked by how much his behavior has come over the past year to mimic that of Mr. Trump's, which was never the case before. For instance, he literally told lie after lie. His wife recounted to us that he has become a bully at home, and that she has stopped going along with his commands. At the conference, he demanded that everybody follow his orders--which contradicted what the organizers themselves had already arranged--simply "because he told us to." That isn't how our group has ever worked before. It is a low budget operation run on a consensus basis by volunteers. At our annual business meeting where we typically change rules or make decisions, he was unable to participate in the usual give and take. Instead he either ignored the comments of others, attempted to stop folks from commenting at all, or ridiculed them. After the meeting closed, he told others that the folks who made comments at the meeting would regret doing so. Even the most diplomatic among us took that as a threat. In the end, he alienated folks from multiple continents and many countries.
13
There certainly is enough blame to go around. And more than likely it is manipulated by Trump and his Administration, the RNC, the DNC and the NRA, just to name a few of the culprits.
Irregardless of disagreeing with some friends and family members, I would not let that interfere with the love we have for each other and neither would they.
It is time for all sides to really see what has happened because of all the rancor and to take responsibility for their own actions . This also includes all of the media, who constantly gave more coverage to Trump in the Primary contest than any other candidate, which in turn helped him to become the National Candidate. So here we are.
It is also time for all sides to recognize the dangerous policies that are happening behind closed doors, while we are being distracted by tweets and the media.
There is a real danger to our democracy and all sides need to defend it, not ignore or rant about it.
1
The funny thing about this is I remember being told by various news media cognoscenti that political conservatives needed, and fed on hate early in the era of right-wing talk radio, and that's why they were so bitter. Now we see that partisan divisions do not make us any less human, and that we all have a taste for extreme emotions. The best advice for everyone is that, no matter how vicious you feel, never wish anything bad on anyone, and, don't discuss politics on social media, which is too shallow a venue for such a complicated topic.
4
I gotta say: I don’t see the same rancor and hostility in my own environment that I see here.
Most of us at work (I work in a mid-size emergency department) know the political opinions of our co-workers and we all get along. No friendships have been ruined and we still socialize as before.
Reading a lot of these comments, you would think that was impossible.
5
I am reminded of Lincoln's speech in Springfield, Illinois on June 16, 1858. Although the line that "A house divided against itself, cannot stand" gets all the attention, Lincoln also noted that the country would cease to be divided and "become all one thing or all the other." Should this prove true, what will the United States become in the years following Trump?
2
It is in the best interests of the Power Elite to keep the rabble squabbling amongst ourselves. Divide and conquer is the oldest and best strategy for keeping the powerful in power. And it’s good business for the media industrial complex, too.
37
@William Perks Absolutely. As long those taxes keep getting cut for the rich and environmental rules are gutted for corporations (and the Kochs) and Supreme Court and other Federal court judges are approved based on how they will decide cases involving taxes and corporations, everything else is just "noise" created to divert attention. It's not that immigration, civil rights, and gun control aren't important issues but they get enough divided attention so that taxes and corporate profits will continue to benefit the 1%.
4
Stop. Just stop. It is not "political" anger. Fox new and their minions love this divided USA nonsense. This is moral outrage. Justified. On the side that stands against Trump and his policies. On that side their are obviously democrats, but also independents and republicans. It is not politics. It is supporting or opposing the abuse of children in detainment centers, the housing of refugees in internment camps, discrimination against Muslims, Mexicans, Blacks, etc., padding the accounts of the rich while cutting needed safety nets for the poor, dismantling the pathetic health care safety net that still exists, and destroying our environment. This is NOT political. It is a moral and spiritual outrage. And only one side is in the right.
821
@Cary mom I was with you until your last sentence. That kind of self-righteousness will keep people divided, and not lead to much in the way of constructive change.
Thank you, very well said!
@Cary mom: I would hope that you would understand that others can believe differently from you and still be deserving of respect. Your description of the issues you believe in is quite emotional and not necessarily the only right way to think or to view them. It inevitably leads to an impasse with others who do not think & believe as you do, and further impede the ability to compromise to accomplish needed political results on your issues.
3
There are two important issues described in the opening anecdote: the growing intolerance of many for opposing political viewpoints, and the extraordinary power of the Internet and social media to damage lives in the blink of an eye.
Concerning the first, there’s no question: our President’s relentless tweating of overwrought invective is unpresidential, inappropriate and counterproductive. I believe contact by politicians with the public, through web sites and social media can be a good thing. But not as our president practices such communication. Speaking frankly to the public is a good thing. What the president does on a daily basis is not.
That said, the Editorial Board of the New York Times has been spewing overwrought, often gratuitous, hyperbole directed against Republicans and conservatives for far longer than our President. Speaking as one who holds many conservative opinions, this is beyond bothersome; it is harmful. The Times is certainly entitled to a liberal world view. The manner is which the Times chooses to express its opinions, though clearly protected by freedom of the press, is nonetheless poor form.
In my own experience, the political intolerance described here is both real and unfortunate. I fully agree that such intolerance is far more often practiced by liberals than conservatives. This matches my own experiences.
As for social media, be careful what you post. I appreciate the fact that the Times permits anonymous commenting.
13
Really? When Pres. Obama was in office do you remember the relentless spewing of hatred towards him and his family? The countless times small towns " urned the president in effigy"?! No, sir, the anger and vile are coming from the Right. We, the Liberals, Independents and Moderates are reacting to the lies and the vindictiveness of the man in the White House.
9
@Mari
no, I do not remember any hate, certainly not a bit of the relentless spewing on every single news channel every night, any program, even a comedy. That is what we have to endure now.
So much incoherent gibberish; so much irrational
conviction that emotional responses are all that
suffice to assert oneself, make one believe that one
is so correct; the plague we live through is grounded in a national tradition of gross exaggeration, but has
been bizarrely intensified by how we interact now.
We rely upon stereotypes, mostly fed by a media which
is either shamelessly propaganda and emotionally
manipulative (you know to whom I refer), or is
driven by ratings, and therefore focuses upon the hot button image or idiotic tweet that tells us nothing we need to know. This is what too many feel the need to react to.
The use of social media drives an oversimplified emotional reaction to events, and discourages
dispassionate analysis that seeks a coherent deeper response and demands longer attention.
The society no longer has a model in its head how to
discuss items of crucial import without collapsing into gross meaningless exaggeration and useless hyperbole.
There's a general refusal to devote the time and resources
to offer such a model of respectful, serious, sustained conversation. It just "wouldn't sell". So the only way we converse, when we do at all, is to resort to a historic tradition of yelling, blustering, exaggerating ridiculously, with no restraint nor concern for being coherent.
So, we're trapped in an acting out, hyperventilation mode of immature interaction, and this cannot succeed, as any preschool teacher knows.
13
@bl
Additionally, it seems worthwhile to emphasize that
much of the current deranged energy has been inspired by the rabble rouser in chief who has few equals when it comes to effective demagoguery. He figured out
how to combine both social media + 24/7 propaganda chains into an exceedingly effective tool for keeping his low info base tuned in and permanently enraged/mobilized.
This has, for all intents and purposes, made civilized discourse between ordinary people and his partisans essentially impossible. To keep the faith, being partisan
now requires adoption of his type of bluster, complete confidence in deep ignorance, and over the top defensive nonsense about there being enemies everywhere. Trying to talk with such people in a civilized and intellectually rigorous manner is very difficult.
I'd like to know what the partisans in the photo think
has really occurred, and their reasoning about why they believe it is so good (and I'm not referring only to the value of their portfolio).
In the absence of cross chasm dialogue, this led to a comparable mindset on the part of some who are horrified by what's happened to the social fabric. The only proper way to respond seemed to require more intense rhetoric and deeper passion.
The creation of this positive feedback loop within two competing groups of partisans may have been intentional to keep attention far away from what
the administration has actually done. It's hard to judge.
Generally speaking, this divide is not exacerbated that much because of this election. Republicans and Democrats are electing people who represent their beliefs and these people are extremely different. Moderates and many Independents are the primary ones lost in the shuffle.
I tend to not get along with conservatives not because of who they voted for, but because of their beliefs about entitlements, minorities, religion, education and how we should care for our fellow humans.
15
Abraham Lincoln had the foresight to realize that when all the killing was over, reconciliation was vital. The Americans who support Trump are not going anywhere. After all this is over (hopefully without any violence), we will have to reconcile with those with whom we disagree. What other option is there? Insulting, denigrating, and demonizing Trump supporters is not the answer. What do you expect them to do? "Oh yeah, you guys were right. I'm an ignorant racist. Thank you for enlightening me." It ain't gonna happen.
160
You make a good point. I have friends and a couple of family members that voted for Donald. We are civil with each other. They have grown increasingly quiet, I believe they are discerning what's happening. We, the Liberals, Independents and Moderate Republicans must take the high road constantly, keep our message about freedom and democracy, the rule of law (NO one wants open borders, we want fair and equitable immigration laws) and civility forefront.
3
@Charles K.
I appreciate and agree with this perspective and think it can be pushed a step further. Trump supporters won't suddenly see the world through a liberal lens, any more than liberals will suddenly see the world through a conservative lens. It's probably more complicated than liberals being "right" and conservatives being "wrong", or vice versa. Getting to some kind of reconciliation is going to require us to get comfortable with our inability to understand certain perspectives/beliefs held by the other. It is exactly those places where we are certain of our conviction that we are right and the other is wrong, that we have to be willing to accept that the other is just as certain, and accept also the genuine conviction underpinning the other's beliefs.
2
@Charles K. -- 100 years of Jim Crow snd Klu Klux Klan was not "reconciliation."
Lincoln was wrong, there has not been real reconciliation to this day.
Trumpismo is the current state of that failure.
3
Democrats caused the divide, the people that built the party were abandon.
8
We need a new furnace but because of the disgusting new Trump tariffs it would cost 8% more than a few months ago. So we will be cold this winter along with many other householders . So don’t be surprised if your daily living becomes outrageously more expensive because of our ignoramus president.
17
@Grandma
Well, I need some concrete facts on the price of this furnace increase.
Perhaps you can live like the rest of us and put down your fancy phone and all of your wonderful luxuries, maybe give up a few so that you can afford a new furnace, which has indeed increased in price exponentially since 2008 with all of the EPA regulations. We needed a new HVAC in 2007, we paid $8K for one unit. in 2012 we needed the second unit replaced and paid $13K for that one. Both same units (we're still living in the big house we raised the kiddos)
3
Since election night in November 2016, the Democrats/Left have been on a never ending temper tantrum. Instead of looking inward and trying to figure out why their candidate lost, they continue to lash out like a bunch of spoiled children who were told they could not get the toy they wanted.
Hillary Clinton called those who supported President Trump "Deplorable". Just the other day that liberal icon, Mario Cuomo said "America was never great". For eight long years all we hear out of Obama's mouth was hatred for our police and racial political speak. I could go on and on. And yet the editorial staff and the Democrats continue to tell us that THEY are the tolerant ones??? Really????
Until the Democrats stop the identify politics game and accept the fact that American voters rejected a woman who espoused policies they did not care for AND was extremely unlikable, they will continue to be a rudderless, angry political party.
Remember what James Carville famously stated back in the 90's, "It's the ECONOMY, stupid". Democrats who are praying for a recession in order to regain power will be rejected by the American people. Count on it.
18
You apparently have very selective hearing.
5
@Kenny S. Must correct your facts. The American people voted for Hilary. The states voted for Trump. Land and location counts more than the individual in our voting system. Sad.
Frank Luntz who has become "disenchanted" didn't mind the first 30 years Rush Limbaugh was on talk radio doing what Hannity does on Fox and what Trump now does from the White House. Country club republicans are only upset that Trump brought the racists and the haters from the nosebleed section to the front row.
31
The mob mentality and the screaming in unison of "lock her up" was the real beginning of the discord we have now. These people were GOP delegates and representatives in congress. They were not all the types of people who now show up to Trump's rallies. Donald Trump has purposely sowed the discourse we are seeing now. That was his only way to survive. It's his life blood.
24
Donald Trump has always thrived on insults, conflicts, divisiveness and anything else that can earn him attention. Anyone who has been involved in thousands of lawsuits is by definition a terrible businessman. Now he has achieved his greatest success, remaking America in his own image.
18
Sad but true.
@Chuck Burton America has not been remade by Trump or any president - just venting I guess.
1
I can understand not wanting candidate a or candidate b.... I myself was not excited about HC for many reasons, including her deafness to real peoples concerns and her grandiosity. I felt that the Dems should have done better in providing us a good President to vote for. What I cannot understand is the continued support of a man who has shown no willingness or understanding of our country, it's history and his sworn oath to represent all the people in this country. There are so many things wrong with this man that willingness to support him makes no sense to me at all. He has created and fed divisiveness from day one. I don't hate anyone. I just cannot for the life of me understand how anyone can support a president who shows no interest in anything but himself. He does not represent the people. He represents himself. At some point, people will have to make a choice when the Mueller report comes out. It will be truthful. It will not be fake news. If people cannot objectively take this information for what it is, we are lost. No lie from the president can change the truth, unless you let it. Please think for yourself. Our country depends on it. We need each other to get through this. VOTE
29
It's called Fox News. If you really watch the narrative of the information they present, it is about noble, besieged conservatives and then some shocking stories about the depravity of the rest of the world. After 20 years of this, they've succeeded in making their viewers paranoid and angry to the point where they really think that someone who votes differently from them is a true enemy. Combine that with how vicious people become on social media (all political stripes) and we've reached a state where our common humanity and shared citizenship have been devalued. People are cynical about each other and that will only change by spending some time talking and listening to each other which is almost impossible with the level of anger right now. The only thing that's certain is that no solution will come from TV news or social media.
31
I am a left-leaning liberal—along the lines of the European social democrats.
Mostly because their policies seem to work best.
But in my observation (with the exception of a handful of individuals on the alt-right), the vastly greater hatred and intolerance comes from those opposed to Trump.
Just read these comments.
They are really ugly and off-putting. Even for someone like me who cringes every time I hear the words “President Trump. “
And if I feel that way, Trump won’t need to spend a nickel getting re-elected. The Left will do it for free.
18
Trump is not a partisan problem. He is a moral and ethical divide. When people argue about the president, they aren’t arguing politics, they are arguing morals and ethics.
As long as the left is talking about facts and the right is talking about feelings, we’ll never be able to move forward because there is no common language and a dialogue is the last thing Trump wants. He shuts down every discussion, turning every issue into one of facts versus feelings, dividing us between hearts and minds.
Until we start hearing and speaking each other’s language, we’ll never be able to move forward and, using Trump as a translator, will guarantee that we never do.
190
So are you suggesting that we liberals express our feelings rather than citing facts? I think plenty of that is going on at present. Many of us are outraged at what is occurring. Meanwhile, I see many Trump supporters rationalizing their moral codes in order to maintain support for him. About the only time we came together (and not all did) was the forced separation of immigrant children from their parents. I do have conservative friends who drew the line at that.
I keep saying, in my rather heated discussions with friends/opponents that, "it is not what divides us, but what brings us together," that is important. The lines are hard!
4
I noticed at no point in this article did the press play a role in this divide except a mention of Fox news. This is the American conflict the press worked to produce. Conflict sells, harmony does not. As hard news and editorial become more blurred, the public doesn't realize they are being fed propaganda from both sides. Compromise and cooperation is essential to representative democracy. Trump is certainly culpable for feeding the divide, but it didn't start with Trump. Nowadays all we get from the press is news about the wing nuts in both parties regardless of the fact that 70% of us are centrists and share common values.
13
"Research has shown Mr. Narramore’s experience — being dropped by a liberal friend — is probably more common than the reverse. Thirty-five percent of Democrats, a Pew survey last year found, said learning that a friend had voted for Mr. Trump would put a strain of the relationship. Only 13 percent of Republicans said that of a friend’s vote for Hillary Clinton. The most educated and most liberal Democrats were most likely to say a Trump vote would complicate their friendships."
People want to go on about the "cult" of Donald Trump, but if you think about it, it's actually the members of a cult who shun and are encouraged to shun those outside of it.
11
I'm sorry NYT readers, but right or left, if you can't get politely interact with 50% of the population, let alone your neighbors and/or family, then there is something seriously wrong with YOU. I loathe Donald Trump, but I'm not going to let it ruin my relationship with family or friends. No one dies peacefully when consumed of spite.
19
@Matthew. Really. We should just go along to get along with the nice neonazis?
Sounds like you should read the section in Letter From a Birmingham Jail about white moderates.
You can clearly get along with this 50% because you’re not part of the wide group of Americans being targeted.
Zero tolerance for racists. Zero tolerance for climate change deniers. That’s a moral stand, not a problem.
2
@Matthew Exactly! It is an over-belief in the federal government that stokes incivility. What great changes has the federal government made under any recent regime?
1
Unlike President Obama, Trump just exacerbates (stokes) racial, social, gender, religious divisions......there is no mystery about this situation. He has been doing this for decades.
9
@Jerry race relation stats went down under Obama too. And, Obama did nothing (good) for black unemployment, Trump has.
1
@mmpack Even Sarah Sanders disagrees with you. Please check your facts.
Trump is horribly bad for our country but the comments here reflect part of the problem and basically prove the point of this article. I know plenty of decent people who voted for Trump either because of single issues that are of fundamental importance to them or because they just thought Hillary was sleazy and corrupt. Demonizing, insulting, and dehumanizing Trump voters isn't going to change their mind. How do you feel when you hear "liberals hate America?" It's the same thing. When we paint any group of millions with a single brush, how is that not ignorant? Isn't that what we have been fighting against in other contexts? No, no this is surely the path to civil war. Please avoid the classic lapse of logic and stop attributing fundamental character qualities to political views (even though it is sometimes accurate).
114
@Charles K.
Thank you, my thoughts exactly.
I have often pondered whether we are indeed heading towards another Civil War.
I pray that we do not, for two reasons: First, of course, of what it do to the country and all the innocent who will get caught in the crossfire, and the second is that I already know who would win that war: Those who have all the guns and know how to use them.
6
@Charles K. Voting for Trump pretty much belies beings a decent person. Maybe their decent to you, but how do they treat black people or gays. You likely think they’re decent because you aren’t a member of the groups they despise so much. Nice position to be in for you.
@Charles K.
Your view of "decent" troubles me. Trump is not a decent man, by any plausible criterion. When I ask "why couldn't you find someone who espouses the policies you prefer but is a more decent and qualfied man" ... I get no answer.
I see only one explanation: Trump's deviance and incompetence is not a bug, all of it is THE feature to those who voted for him. It is what made him unique among the Republican contenders for the nomination ... if this were not true someone else would have been the Republican candidate.
The groping, the frauds, the payoffs to hide his adulteries, the endless lying. the gross incompetence at being a president ... and of course his obvious racial animus.
It is not "decent" to pick a person like this to be president.
5
I have followed American politics for over 50 years. We have had disagreements over taxes, wars, trade and civil rights. But, we never had a time like this, where the disagreements have become so personal rather than political.
I believe we have turned on one another so viciously because our economy has become more and more unfair. We now have inequality at levels not seen since the great depression. When your very survival is dependent upon economically "beating" all your fellow citizens for the last few scraps of income, then you are going to see "others" as your enemy.
If we want to improve our sense of being one united nation then we are going to need to fix our economy so that it benefits everyone and provides a level of economic security for every American.
4
"In a Divided Era, One Thing Seems to Unite: Political Anger"
Not surprising at all when politicians on both sides of the aisle along with a more than willing media/press push anger and hatred.
5
This article is a start, but we really need a deeper examination of how media is exacerbating this. The headlines that get the most clicks and earn the most money are the ones that generate harsh, powerful emotions, not the ones that encourage thoughtful reflection. So the people who manage media and the people who consume it get trained in that direction. The problem is a feature of capitalism, and analogous to the one that the food industry has, which is that people will eat more of the food you manufacture if you put more sugar in it, even though it makes them fat and unhealthy. The core business model of Fox News seems to be based on this principle, but most of the media utilizes it. My own politics are liberal, but there are liberal news sites that I just won't look at any more - unless I've gotten liquored up and am in the mood for some primitive emotions.
9
I lived, worked, studied or taught in 13 countries. By far the USA is the country that has the most limited world-view and are the most dogmatic. Our educational system continues to fall in World rankings. For example, the latest PISA World Ranking has us 31st!
With this background it is reasonable to expect that people look for emotional security by being dogmatic in their beliefs. We are easy picking for any con man.
45
To those republicans out there who disavow Trump but are supportive of his policies and achievements:
- what ever happened to the pledge to replace ObamaCare with something BETTER. Instead he and republicans push to destroy it rather than improve it.
- How do you think soy bean and hog farmers feel right about now? And why should the US Steel and Aluminum industries be so favored at the expense of manufacturers that depend on competitively priced resources? Higher prices and lost jobs in the near future, no doubt.
- Does satisfying the angry blue collar and rural base justify destroying our environmental protections that ironically protect them and lower income families dis-proportionally.
- Is Climate Change a Hoax? What open-minded, educated person can honestly justify this belief at this point. Any dependence on coal other than as a transitional form of energy as we move to alternatives is irresponsible.
- Confused and ineffective foreign policy that depends more on photo ops than concrete goals, Love affair with despots like Putin and disparaging our national security apparatus come to mind.
15
@BOSOX#1 Bravo!
1
On the bright side of this Trump-infested situation, it has become effortless to identify the intellectually challenged among us. The “Trump supporter” jokes are multiplying faster than his Tweets.
The biggest change this time is that the discussion has devolved from policy differences (there is climate change with widely differing policies to combat it) into feelings and beliefs (climate change is now a liberal hoax). As I watch the earth literally cook and California burn, it’s very difficult not to feel that there is something morally abhorrent about a person, and a party, that mocks my concerns (snowflake) about climate change and supports a President that takes a position that is, by any measure, based on lies and half truths. The Republicans, by supporting a President like this, have revealed something deeply disturbing about their moral fiber.
8
I voted for Obama and I voted for Trump. The country did just fine under Obama, it’s doing just fine under Trump, and it would be doing just fine if Clinton had been elected president in 2016. Chill some. The Founding Fathers got it right.
7
@one Nation under Law
By what metrics do you define “fine”?
7
@one Nation under Law
Amen.
The last president was not a "socialist traitor."
The current one is not a "fascist traitor."
Objective reality has not changed: we still live in a mixed economy with a very high degree of individual freedom, civic order, restraints upon state encroachment and rule of law.
We have plenty of problems, but we are not falling apart.
Most importantly, power remains decentralized to such a degree in this country that whoever occupies the White House has relatively little impact on our core institutions and our civil society.
So start being civil to one another.
We're all Americans here.
Be grateful we live in a country that has such a degree of order and freedom at the same time.
Show a bit of RESPECT for each other and GRATITUDE toward each other.
If you hate politician X, then show your respect and gratitude just to spite X.
5
@one Nation under Law - the left has an oversized belief in the federal government so they are happy to religiously ecstatic under their regimes, and, unhappy to unhinged under opposing regimes.
1
The emotionally charged comments readers leave on the NYT, myself included, are apparently not just my imagination. I was never politically active until now. I think we are at the end of the post WWII era of life as we know it and are on the cusp of experiencing deep societal changes. There are opposing and simultaneous lurches to the Left and Right in USA and Europe. So how does this end? I wish I had a crystal ball to tell me what society will look like in 10 years.
5
My wife calls herself an unabashed liberal, I am identifying as a traditional conservative. When we compare our positions on all relevant core values and policies in the interest of the country, we are in 95% agreement with reasonable overlap on the remaining 5%. We both consider Trump a boil on America's back that needs to be lanced urgently.
Perhaps sometimes it would make sense not to discuss what is important under the shadow of Trump's latest infectious discharge of prurient nonsense, but on a rational and factually informed basis.
I guarantee, if both sides would agree upon - and were capable of actually doing - this, there would be no serious divisions.
14
@Kara Ben Nemsi. The fact that you call for reason and facts pretty much marks you out as not a conservative today. Conservatives today base their argument on illogic and outright lies and attack reason and facts at every turn. And that absence of an agreement to rely on facts is why political discussion is no longer a possibility in America
3
@Kara Ben Nemsi -- you are a "never Trumper."
The core of the problem here is "the shadow of Trump's latest infectious discharge of prurient nonsense," vs. "a rational and factually informed basis."
To support Trump means supporting that "discharge of prurient nonsense" and denying facts and rationality. It also involves a lot of ugly racism.
If you ask a Trump supporter "why couldn't you find a more decent man, a more capable and honest one, to espouse the policies you prefer" ... there is never an answer that makes sense.
The only conclusion is that the prurient nonsense, the lying, the racism, and the spitefulness ARE their intent.
2
Sad.
We’ve let personally held opinions (important no doubt) get in the way of something mutually shared (a marriage, being a sibling). Yes, politics on all sides exacerbated this problem but it seems to speak of our growing individuality as much as if not more than our important political beliefs. It’s hard to fathom that our thoughts or ideas about a political leader create such a chasm that not even a marriage or shared DNA can bridge. What have we become?
I say this as a liberally minded resister whose parents and siblings are redder than you can imagine. Yes, there’s disagreements- harsh at times- but these people are of my own flesh and blood. If we don’t find deeper bonds than political winds, we are doomed.
14
@Erasumus Flesh and blood don't mean much when the ones you share that with are more of the "Blood and Honour" mentality.
There is no decline. America is waking up from the tyranny of the Obama years and now we will be better than ever. I was a liberal most of my life but the hysteria created by the left has pushed me away. I didn’t vote for Trump but this November I will vote to support him and his vision
18
@Richard I don't believe one word you wrote and describing the Obama years as tyranny is delusional. We should have such tyranny today.
6
@Richard Gulping the Kool-Aid. Sad.
4
@Richard
Progressives are in deep denial about the animus toward Obama. They don't realize what they resist persists.
1
Try being a history and government teacher with professional pressure to be politically neutral for your students.
I have to say, reading this makes me more determined to be countercultural and devoted to creating a classroom that models civil and open discourse. If we can teach young people how to do this, we can start to reverse this divisive trend before it splits us. As Eric Liu has said, “We don’t need fewer arguments in American civic life today; we need less stupid ones.”
26
It’s disappointing that so many of the comments capture and illustrate the extremism and one-sided, blame-the-other-side mindset the article describes.
Extremist liberals and conservatives views are counter productive. If each side would just listen with an open mind to the other, and stop assuming evil immoral motives on the other, we could make so much progress as a country.
9
I'm fortunate in that there are no real problems of this kind in my extended family (almost all Democrats, a few Gary Johnson libertarians and one notable Never-Trumper), nor much problem in my work environment. (I'm a scientist, there are very few scientists who support Trump.)
But I have a neighbor family down the street who are ardent Trump supporters, and it's not just the yard signs. I had the misfortune to get into an argument about Trump with the man of the house when out for a walk 6 months ago (he approached me and started it), and I avoid them now, in part because he carries a gun (this is my upstate place, not NYC) and he yells about that too.
They have always been the angry neighbors, in a neighborhood that is largely quiet, mind-your-own-business, try-to-get-along. I don't know the politics of most of my neighbors, most don't know mine.
Trumpism empowers them to feel like victors, and yet this victory is almost overwhelmed by fear and resentment. His position, as far as I understand it, is that I and "my kind" are not "Americans," are destroying America, must be purged so that "real Americans" can have their rights. (I'm white.)
I am a "snowflake" to object to Trump's moral transgressions, or his endless lying and Orwellian ignore-what-I-said-yesterday.
As he got wound up he started into Obama and Hilary, and some gibberish I couldn't follow that sounded vaguely like Comet Ping Pong or Q-Anon hysteria.
This is not going to end well.
70
@Lee Harrison. They should realize that if by “America” they mean the racist, sexist, stupid, selfish, arrogant, ignorant country, then absolutely we intend to destroy every last vestige of that place.
2
@Doug K -- I don't wish to destroy anybody - count me out on that one.
Sadly, they are doing an utterly bang-up job destroying themselves ... I just don't want them to take me down with them.
1
Anger is our state of mind - road rage, people barreling through public spaces running people down, perceived injustice, disrespect of elders, constant hysteria in the press, Tea Party animosity against Democrats, calling President Obama. Liar on the House floor. Trump demeaning John McCain and anyone who opposes him. The House and Senate mute. Who can forget the Hulk at the Clinton and Trump debates. We allowed it, we condoned it. We are to blame.
5
This is not a “both sides are wrong and need to get along” situation. Nor is this a political division as this article suggests - this isn’t a split over the federal budget or the size of government. The president is a deeply immoral person who is inciting violence and hate among his supporters. The evil things his administration has put into effect have been well documented in this paper. There is still such a thing as right and wrong, moral and immoral. It is not a moral act to support what the president is doing.
12
Take away the gut-wrenching internal chaos inspired by Trump’s fiery rhetoric. Think about what he says - that it’s designed to instigate emotional response. Not rational thought (you can’t have both at the same time). Strip away the falsehoods of his speeches, as in this line: “I’m going to cut your taxes”. There’s no free lunch, folks, so who is going to pay for that tax cut? Ask yourself. You are! They’ll be in the form of higher prices, crumbling infrastructure, higher medical costs, and no safety net in your senior years. For those too young to be concerned about your social security: that’s money you are almost certain to desperately need when you reach retirement age.
Sure, you got a $15/month tax cut. King Trump wants you thank him for it.
But what he really did was give himself a $5,000,000 tax cut and his kids a $500,000,000 estate tax cut.
Trump riled you up, threw you peanuts, then gorged on steak.
You were so excited by the rhetoric that you never saw what he was really doing.
So, when you feel the tough-talk-inspired adrenaline rising, fight the urge and maintain control of your rationality - and civility.
11
You haven't seen our anger. If Trump fires Rosenstein or Mueller, the streets will become barricades harking back to les evenements du Mai 1968.
6
How ironic: an article on political division, from a leftist media outlet that has done its best to divide the country because it cannot accept the fact that Hillary, the Queen of Division, lost the 2016 election, blames the evil Republicans and Mr. Trump for the very crimes it itself had perpetrated for generations. The Left in this country, with its media monopoly, is not used to being talked back to. But those days are over.
19
Alas I was not surprised when Mom commented that Trump dares to say what he thinks. Since she is my mother, I can’t repudiate her, angry as I was; I only tried to warn her that she made a great mistake and will regret her choice; she, like so many of his supporters, fell for the racist, anti-immigrant rhetoric because it reflects her own darker values (others don’t deserve the aid she got), even though she was an immigrant herself (ah, but legal, as if this made a difference in Trumpworld), and she is not white (ah, but not black, so that made it ok). And she is relying on the social security /Medicare safety net the Republicans can’t wait to dismantle. Were she not my own mom, I would have ended the relationship.
I did break with the husband of a cousin - he had always shown racist, superiority complex tendencies, which were now exarcebated both by Trump and his own financial anxieties - mind you, he and his wife earn a high salary, but not enough to support both a lavish lifestyle and now pay for college tuition; he wanted to have his cake and eat it too.
But it was his condescension and nastiness prior to the election that made me unfriend him in Facebook - the only one I had to unfriend. Caught in the same web of contradictions and conservatism (but eager for govt help) as my mother, he too was an immigrant himself and married to non-whites.
Ultimately, both believed what they wanted to, and Trump made it seem ok
9
This keeps us divided, distracted, and at each other’s throats, while our labor and our taxes are picked from our pockets and given away to the already rich and their corporations, the ones who pay so few a living, much less fulfilling, wage. This is not government by the people for the people, this is modern day slavery. And we, 99% of us, are the slaves. Let’s wake up, America! Let’s wake up and take our country back from the system that enslaves us. We are allowing this. Find our commonality, find our shared goodness, rise above our differences, and vote for candidates, R, D, or otherwise, who bring us together, who compromise, and truly govern as public servants, for us, for we, the people.
8
Your mate/partner relationship needs some level of political and religious agreement. Every other relationship can withstand a moratorium on political discourse. Tell them you're not going to talk about it. If they persist, cut 'em loose. That's worked for me and my birth family, as well as others who disagree with me.
Trump era politics must be labeled a health hazard. Oh, forgot, HHS or CDC aren’t allowed to present facts.
9
The fascist powers who seek to destroy democracy, do so by a divide-and-conquer strategy, such that now anyone who is cast as having a community-based view of society, is now an enemy of the people. This is much of the goal of Russia's and China's cyber-warfare against the United States, and indeed, is what drives the corporate warfare against the citizens of America. The fascists appear to be winning bigly.
9
It's fascinating seeing liberals lose their minds over Trump. The few I know swear that he is harming the country. I ask for proof. I get look at the border, the economy and rights. All of which you would swear were a wreck if you read the times or watch MSNBC. Folks. Think for yourselves. Is it that hard for the demographic which labels themselves "Free Thinking intellectuals"?
10
For those of you who just don’t get why the country is so divided, especially you “thinking conservatives,” let me enlighten you. Us liberals have finally let go of our hopes that Democrats and Republicans might be able to work together. We’ve finally decided that enough is enough and grown backbones.
All of the lies and calumny that have come from the conservative and ultra-conservative wings of the GOP (now the only wings) since the 1960s are coming back to bite you. While we could respect those who were or supported thoughtful Republicans during the years before Gingrich, your beliefs and political philosophy have become so morally bankrupt and so destructive of all the positive progress we had made in America that you and your ilk have become unacceptable to us.
The fight is no longer about policy in the abstract or small steps backward, it has become a war for the soul of The United States. And you are no longer our fellow citizens, you are our enemy in this war, just like you have viewed us since the days of the New Deal and the Civil Rights Era.
494
"your [conservative] beliefs and political philosophy have become so morally bankrupt and so destructive of all the positive progress we had made in America that you and your ilk have become unacceptable to us.
@JF - thank you for illustrating the point of this article so well.
6
@JFi would counter that the LEFT is all about feelings and the Right presents facts
1
@JF: If everyone who voted for Trump or is a Republican is your enemy, many families & friends will be at loggerheads leading to violence. I hope that your opinion of the millions who disagree with you is not a general belief of all liberals. If it is, this country is doomed.
3
“All over a tweet.” I find this problematic. Is a tweet somehow less than speech? Why are we allowing tweets to be treated as less serious than anything else you say? Just because it is a new medium does not mean it has no reflection on your reputation or character. Many of my fellow liberals complain (rightly) about Trump’s tweeting habits, but they are ready to defend their own thoughtless tweets as something less than important?
1
While the current discourse is lamented there is little attribution to the Obama era as part of the root cause. Who made the comment about certain people clinging to God, guns and gays? The media in general was highly partisan to the Obama administration and treated him more like a celebrity than a political figure. Many people likely became tired of the softball treatment he received and led to a perception that the fourth estate was often just an extension of the White House communications department. When asked about those who disagreed with his policies, Mr. Obama's comment was that "[if] you don't like a particular policy or a particular president? Then argue for your position. Go out there and win an election...." Well, it seems that the voters took to heart Mr. Obama's advice. Mr. Obama and the media began creating this divisiveness by discounting the views of those who disagreed with the administration and then refusing to show objectivity or impartiality in the coverage of Mr. Obama. When those in power characterize a group of people's difference of opinion on policy as being due to ignorance or something more sinister that is what causes divisiveness. The lack of impartial coverage by those who are tasked with holding those in power accountable then leads to anger. I would posit that these divisions were ignored during the Obama administration but now those with the flashlights have turned them on and are focusing them on what they want others to see.
12
@Andrew
You are correct to a certain extent. I also came to similar conclusions. However, to Obama's credit, he never debased himself in a way remotely resembling Trump. The comment about God and guns was demeaning, but true in the sense that everybody cherishes certain beliefs and traditions. If one tries to take them away instead of accommodating them, people can react violently in unexpected ways. Trump understood that and he knew that by tapping into that anger he would win. Exaggerated identity politics is another such trigger point. When Obama came down on the side of wedding cakes and bathroom politics I knew we were in serious trouble.
I am still reading comments here by liberals who think of those people who do not toe their line as dirt or less. That could include me to some extent. And that is exactly what might very well lead to more losses during the midterms. Nothing helps Trump more than that sentiment.
Not that I would vote for him, I have a hard time deciding who I would prefer, him or the anti-Christ. But if rabid liberals continue to paint Democrats in a similar repulsive image, it will become less and less attractive to go to the polls for too many of us.
That's what Trump is counting on. And the liberals are playing right into his hand.
6
@Andrew
Obama, perhaps as much as Clinton, may be responsible for Trump's victory. His immigration policies were unpopular. He eschewed business. He was the safety net president, which was a good thing when the ground was moving beneath Americans when the market crashed. It became a prison for the millions who wanted to see businesses back on their feet and thriving (ex., hiring and paying) again. The safety net had no way out.
1
Like the magma beneath the earth's mantle, I believe the anger that defines this age is largely inchoate, looking for thin places to push through to the surface and erupt. Politics is the obvious place where it takes shape and gets defined, but not the place that actually reflects the true causes of the deep wells of anger inside us. That's why it appears so petty, irrational, and boundless. That's why Trump's meanness and petty revenge plays so well with those who love him for giving shape to their own unnamed fears and anger. Thucydides wasn't wrong about civilization being a thin veneer that is quickly stripped away to reveal our wanton animal spirits and boundless capacity for cruelty.
5
You make it sound as if 2 groups are having a disagreement over their preferred color: I like blue. No, I like red. When in fact it is more akin to an argument: The world is flat. No the world is round. I’ll let the readers guess which side thinks it’s flat.
10
Trump was elected because over the last 40 years our economic system has failed the majority of Americans, those below the upper middle/professional class. While this country has had substantial economic growth during that time, the benefits of that growth has all gone to the top. Median incomes have been stagnant for two generations. That's a legitimate basis for wanting a radical change, and Trump was smart enough to see that and make that change a large part of what he promised during the campaign.
However, what he has done since he was elected is the opposite of helping the average person - his policies have all been to give more and more resources to the 1%, at the expense of everyone else. He keeps his base in line by pandering to their bigotry and ignorance, backed up by propaganda organs such as Faux News, talk radio, and right wing websites.
As others have pointed out, it's not possible to have a reasonable conversation with anyone who does not accept basic facts.
But the way forward is not to just denounce Trump's obscene behavior - his base actually enjoys that, since they view it as sticking to his opponents. The decent people in this country need to reassess the way it is run, to give the average person a better deal, and more opportunity for them and their children. That would give the regular people a positive alternative to Trump.
186
@Robert Schneider
"Median incomes have been stagnant for two generations. That's a legitimate basis for wanting a radical change, "
Are you referring to median household income? Median wage income? Median family income? What "real" price adjustment are you using? What quality variables are included in these price adjustments and in what monetary amounts?
Moreover, a change in a median in no way can be interpreted as good or bad. Far more analyses are needed--and even then, overwhelming subjective considerations will influence any normative conclusions.
2
@Robert Schneider Not sure where you get your data to support your statement that "Median incomes have been stagnant for two generations". From Wikipedia:
"Between 1979 and 2011, gross median household income, adjusted for inflation, rose from $59,400 to $75,200, or 26.5%. This compares with the Census' growth of 10%.[16] However, once adjusted for household size and looking at taxes from an after-tax perspective, real median household income grew 46%, representing significant growth."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States#Medi...
1
@Robert Schneider
As a tax preparer, I can attest to the fact that his tax cuts will help middle Americans -- regardless of how the 1% are benefiting. Furthermore, 99% of American businesses are small businesses, which are also benefiting from his tax cuts.
Tax rate tables don't lie. A credit is a reduction of your taxes. It' really very simple. Trump has made both more generous to the middle class and small business owners, who have the highest level of optimism in a long time.
Focusing on the rich may validate one's views, but it can't change the facts. The tax reforms are good for most Americans.
1
The lead paragraph in this story is about a visiting assistant professor. For those not familiar with academic rank, assistant is the bottom rung. An assistant professor who works hard for 6 years and behaves himself politically MIGHT become a tenured associate professor. The word "adjunct" in front however means that the position is not tenure track and cannot lead to promotion. Adjuncts are generally paid per course. They are often people who have full time jobs in the field and choose to share their knowledge with students by teaching a course in their area.
This individual was essentially a temporary hired hand and would have known that when his contract was offered. It is common for adjuncts not to be hired again, for many reasons.
6
One reader writes here:
"The GOP has become the party of the ignorant. It’s now the clearest dividing line between the two major parties. It’s impossible to mount an informed, intelligent defence of Trump and his accomplices in Congress. Those who support them do so out of ignorance or bigotry (in truth a form of ignorance)."
This is not an atypical comment. There is widespread belief among those on the left that Trump supporters are "stupid" and "racist." But the motivation for Trump voters runs much deeper. It runs at the level of emotion and values, not rational thought as liberals would define it.
Much has been written about the values crisis among Trump voters, who feel left behind, not only economically, but culturally. They see the world as they knew it as "coming part." They are reacting to an existential crisis in their lives in a very human way, by looking to an authoritarian figure for their salvation.
Liberals could do a lot to mitigate the partisan differences if they could find it within themselves to take a more detached view of the problem. Many Democratic candidates on the stump in rural and swing districts are doing just that, finding ways to bridge differences by focusing on local and economic problems, and avoiding the big, hotbutton issues.
For a larger view of the partisan divide, I recommend the following article:
• "When and Why Nationalism Beats Globalism," Jonathan Haidt, The American Interest, June 10, 2016 http://wp.me/p4ja0Z-Apc
13
I really think that Trump supporters are reacting poorly to a changing world, just because they don't want to see it change. Too bad. It's happening. Our climate is changing, beyond anything else, that is a fact of our lives. To anyone with sense, it's like a child throwing a tantrum. Change is the only constant in the universe. Fighting it is to stand in the onslaught of a flood saying, "I can stop this." We are witnessing the disaster of that choice. The reduction of our countires global standing and respect, the loss of allies, the impact on trade, on the global economy. On our ability to ever claim the moral high ground after electing someone who has commited fraud, and admitted to sexual assault on camera. That wasn't enough to disqualify him. Your fear of a changing world is leading to our species destruction.
6
@Ron Cohen
I see Trump's supporters as the incurious, those unwilling to read more, to dig deeper in their quest to understand.
I certainly have and at the end of the day find it impossible to accept outright lying in the face of what has been put forth through the presentation of facts, not bombastic, simplistic claims, Trump's unfounded assertions of 'fake news', and more and more appearing much like the Wizard shouting from behind a black curtain in The Wizard of Oz.
6
The most important instances of social progress in this country have come at the cost of deep divisions. A placid balance is not always the best state of affairs.
12
@Jeremiah Crotser,
True but, bloodshed always proceeds that progress ... See The American Civil War, The Civil Rights movement, etc.
@Jeremiah Crotser ... yes, social progress can emerge from deep divisions; also the Civil War.
1
@BD is there a more clear example of social progress than the civil war?
Just as people can confuse weather for climate, they can confuse the Executive for exclusive governance.
It's understandable these days, but I worry that the Senate is flying (happily) under the radar. McConnell and his cohort are altering the character of the judiciary that will persist for a generation or more; all of the positive, progressive actions judges take now to counteract the retrograde actions of conservative officials will soon fade into the miasma of a political monoculture.
I expect the Republican elite are essentially indifferent to Trump's antics. Trump will be gone sooner or later, but the judges that they're able to put in office (and the damage they do) will last a lifetime. It's just like the damage Ross is doing to the Census: Republicans play the long game, much to our detriment.
18
Agree. McConnell has been spared unlike Obama and Pelosi. I think McConnell is the GOP's Achilles heal in elections.
Growing up in a conservative rural area and moving to a more progressive city changed my entire worldview. My friends who never left espouse every day with contempt toward elitists in cities they've never been to and never will. Because I avoid discussing politics on Facebook, I've probably been spared a lot of unfriending, and I've not done it myself. I've spent 20 years around my angry ultra-conservative in-laws and have gritted teeth through many a holiday meal, since it's never occurred to them I may not share their opinions. Because my wife loves her family and I love my wife, I've stayed silent. But I know that one comment in opposition would guarantee I'd never be welcome in their home again. Personally, I'd love it.
81
With the very few people in my life who still support Trump, I simply don't discuss politics, because it's pointless and will only make everyone angry. Generally they also don't bring it up, because where I live they know they're extremely outnumbered. But if they do start discussing it, or defending him, I certainly won't keep quiet (and if that damages a friendship, so be it).
15
Read the comments here. I have never seen such deep, emotional hatred expressed over a political figure ever. (Maybe right wing extremists came close during the Clinton Impeachment years...but never at the murderous level I'm seeing these days on the left. There is absolutely no humor now.) This is dangerous. I liked and voted for Obama and HRC. I do not hate Trump because I agree with his approach to foreign policy and the economy. It's clear to me that 90% of the Trump narrative coming from the left and the media is twisted for political purposes and is inflaming an already angry mob. I'm afraid the left is close to going mad with anger like the DC shooter and things could really blow up.
28
@rpe123: Odd, I am not afraid that the left or the Democrats are going to explode in anger. We were brought up on the non-non-violent attitude of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., furthered nurtured by reading, study, thought, and close observation of society. Our ranks include many people who understand that allowing one's emotional state to influence rational decisions is not always the best course of action. We are the people who have learned to stop, take a deep breath, count to ten, and think before we escalate a conservation into an argument. We are the people who try not to hold grudges, to forgive ourselves and those who trespass against us, to treat others as we ourselves would like to be treated. We are the people who often believe that we humans are all brothers and sisters in the community of human beings, and that politics ultimately means nothing if we cannot maintain the values of kindness and decency toward each other that allow us to co-exist peacefully and in respect, side-by-side, as we continue working on our eternal differences, and governing ourselves together. As long as there are humans, there will never not be conflict. But having conflict does not mean that we cannot work together to achieve common goals.
3
@rpe123
Yup, and a problem is they don't see their complicity. There's something about progressives that keeps them in an alternative reality, one which they desperately want to believe exists. This is admirable when it's a world where everyone has enough food and water. It's dangerous when it comes to their dysfunction.
1
@rpe123 The hateful or ignorant rants that comes straight out of 45 need no twisting by the media. He intends to inflame and divide, and thus he does. His foreign policy is bullying, unless it’s Russia, in which case he is a mouse. Sad that the deeply flawed Electoral System has allowed for tyranny of the minority, where land and state/county lines count more than individual votes.
Being dropped by a liberal friend is “probably” more common? Is that a joke? I’ve never heard of a conservative dropping a friend or relative due to who they voted for or their political views but it’s rampant from the imperious folks on the left. It comes down to emotion, the leftists are driven by emotion and politics is their religion. If you don’t drink their Koolaid then you are dead to them. Very sad.
22
@JP
In couples' counseling usually the focus is on getting both sides to avoid attacking statements, generalizations and to use 'I,' statements. Experts in the field such as Gottman suggest that contempt is a significant warning sign for impending relationship separation
I find your comment invalidating and exasperating. We on the left feel sad that you are leaving us.
4
JP, I am considered a liberal, I have been dropped by many “conservative” friends because of some of my posts on Facebook pushing back on their blind support of Trump. I have never dropped anyone on the Right, but my own sister in law and my brother both dropped me on Facebook over my political views. I find many of my Trump supporting friends and relatives do not like to have their belief about the man challenged. Yes, it’s sad that politics is now separating us into two camps, but I’ve tried to reason and have a civil discussion only to be told I’m listening to “fake” news. I’m finding these followers are drawing into their own reality and refuse to hear other viewpoints. What concerns me most with these same people is how their tolerance level against all other people besides those like them, has dropped to zero. Their empathy level is negative and they have abandoned any attempt at understanding what civic duty means in keeping our country strong.
3
@JP This is all anecdotal really. As someone you might call a "leftist," I'm moderate for my occupation and home state (northeast). But this need to relabel the Democratic Party to "Democrat Party" and calling Democrats and anyone who believes in more liberal to moderate viewpoints "leftists" is silly. And, the truth is, I don't care whom you vote for, but if you're a rabid MAGA supporter, I simply ignore your rantings. A conversation about policy is altogether different, but all I hear from the "rightists" is how evil "leftists" are. Sheesh.
This is all evidence that old-fashioned newspapering was providing a service that social media has replaced with catastrophic information silos. We should hold social media companies accountable to serve more middle of the road information to people and less racist garbage.
7
When you have a divisive president who is destroying our democracy, you better believe I have no desire to talk to anyone who supports him. What could I say ?
To confirm that, I went on Breibartnews website and the vitriol, bigotry and ignorance was astounding. It confirmed my belief that Trump supporters ARE deplorable and deplorables.
I have made a pact to hurt the states who voted him in by not visiting them, not ordering products from those states, and doing anything I can think of to make them suffer financially. These people are supporting a man who is destroying EVERYTHING our democracy stands for, not to mention the environment and pacts with our allies. He is far worse than Bush ever was, and that's saying something. But Bush was not a divider. Just dumb as a rock.
46
I also am boycotting states that back trump (no more Kentucky bourbon alas). They’re not capable of rational thought but economic hardship might cause them to question their total devotion to king Trump.
The most civil, effective, and compassionate action that we can take with Trump or Republican voters close to us is to withdraw ourselves from them. In a non violent and non confrontational way this action forces them to choose between having a relationship with Trump, or with us. Their decisions will reflect their values, and the resulting gain or loss will be theirs. Engaging with them otherwise is without value. If they have not seen or heard enough at this point directly from the vile source itself, nothing we say or don’t say is likely to have any beneficial impact on them, as they are simply too far gone.
58
@Leo Gold Ah, the Lysistrata strategy! Excellent choice! And if you can find someone - a wandering troubadour, perhaps, rather like the one who sings the praises of Sir Robin the Not-Quite-So-Brave-as-Sir-Lancelot in the Holy Grail - who can document the success of your plan (preferably in ancient Greek), then will the world indeed be a happy and harmonious place.
I find that the less well-informed my friends are, the more they tend to like or defend Trump. I use the NYT, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, Reuters, Forbes, The Economist and National Review to inform myself, among others. Some of my friends don’t really know much about what Trump does, yet they blindly follow him, even against their own economic self-interest. When I informed a PhD professor friend of mine that Trump is not fiscally conservative and not a Constitutionalist, he appeared shocked. Sometimes even smart educated people will read a bogus website if it tells them what they want to hear. Critical thinking seems to be dead when it comes to politics.
48
To me the divide is between people who value data and history (I call then realists) and those who value ideology more (I call the fanatics). As an example, here are 10 lies fervently espoused by the fanatics:
1. Significantly paying down the federal debt (10% or more) has usually been good for the economy.
2. The universal gov run health care systems of other developed countries produce no better results at not much lower costs.
3. The very high top tax rates after WWII combined with high real (ratio of taxes actually paid to GDP) corporate taxes stifled economic growth.
4. The devastation of WWII caused the output of Europe to stay low for many (>10) years.
5. A small ratio of federal debt to GDP has always insured prosperity.
6. Inequality such as we have today (Gini about 0.50) has usually encouraged entrepreneurship thus helping the economy.
7. Our ratio of our corporate taxes actually paid to GDP is among the highest of all developed countries.
8. Since WWI, the cause of severe inflation has usually been the printing of money.
9. As a percentage of GDP, today's federal debt service is the highest in many years.
10. Inequality such as we have today is an aberration; the history of capitalism has shown that periods like 1946 - 1973 with low inequality are the norm.
15
@Len Charlap Don't print lies. It took me three times reading your first paragraph to decipher this mess. Just print your truths.
1
@Name - Sorry about your reading problem. I was making a point about people lying. Simply making a bunch of true statements does not do that.
Maybe if The Times, the Washington Post, CNN, MSNBC, NOR, the Huffington Post, NBC, ABC and NBC would employ a balanced and unbiased reporters and editorial boards when covering Trump and his administration there would be no push back from his supporters and Republicans. But we all know that these media outlets are virulently anti-Trump, and they refuse to recognize any of his achievements. When the left leaning media reports the facts and not their biased opinions as news, middle America will start to give credence to you.
27
Trump supporters are not necessarily "middle America"....and don't they read Trumps tweets? Stop blaming the press and become aware of the obvious.
4
@paul, Come on, the science behind climate change has been known for over a century and middle America doesn't believe it.
In the words of Christ, He who has ears to hear, let him hear. And republicans don't have ears to hear.
1
Paul, maybe because you believe that the President is being unfairly maligned when the media report his actual words and actions, you see that as bias. I know that much of the claims of bias in news among the many Trump supporters around me is because in their mind any report that doesn’t twist itself in favor of Trump is wrong. To hear this President constantly use the term “fake” news simply reinforces the idea that the truth being reported is biased to those that unquestionably support him. I see this every day.
9
This article notes how Conservatives and Liberals are at odds. It suggests an equal level of rancor and myopia. And yet:
One group of voters has their ideas supported by the Kochs and Adelsons of the world, buoyed by dark money. The other group, less so.
One group of voters wants cheaper gas and the right to drive a humvee for no reason while the other group knows climate change is settled science.
One group of voters has a 24-hour propaganda network to distort the facts and shove their agenda while the other has milk-blooded defenders on NPR.
One group of voters is supported by Gerrymandering, voter suppression, the idiotic way Montana has as many Senators as California, the Supreme Court ending the southern civil rights act, and voter roll purges. The other side ... less so.
One group thinks Russians saved us from the winner of the popular vote; the other group watches plutocrats pass tax cuts and prays for Mueller the way children pray for Santa.
Yes, both sides are angry. But Democrats and Liberals are at least still civilized and rational. So I've made my choice. Would that the Times could be so honest.
40
In a world where Dinesh deSouza releases a movie claiming Democrats are Nazis and Trump is Lincoln, I hope some enlightened organization hires Ken Storey and gives him a great job. I'm sure he'll be a great credit to a good organization.
16
While I haven’t dropped any friends because they like Trump, it has made me more careful in conversations, and, honestly, less respectful of these people. Why anyone would support a lying, narcissistic, incompetent, and crooked con man like Trump is beyond me.
41
I read the New York Times has increased its digital subscriptions by over a million since Trump was elected. Most of the political rancor we see today is fueled by the “news” we read. The media is benefitting hand over foot from this, which is why front pages have devolved into opinion pieces thinly veiled as factual “reporting.” For every friendship broken, the Times is raking in millions.
31
@Dr. M The main variable that has changed over the last 2 years is the emergence of Donald Trump. Any attribution of blame on where we are today has to start there. As controversial as George W. Bush was, we were not anywhere near where we are today.
13
@Dr. M You can't blame the media for people like my brother-in-law who taught my niece (about 12 during the election), that "Hillary is a liar" so that she would repeat it, without thinking. Oh wait, maybe that came from watching Fox News and not from reading articles and columns in the New York Times. His brother, right now, is under investigation for a "no-show" job in state government. But yeah, it's the media.
12
@Dr. M
Ah, bought into this new narrative that the news media is our enemy, huh?
Where'd you get your talking points? Oh, lemme guess: his name starts with a D and his middle initial is J.
Several months ago, I was thinking about trying online dating. The first line of my profile would read:
No smokers. No Republicans.
It's taken us liberals too long to realize that the other side isn't just intolerant, it is fixated on taking away our hard-won rights. Our civility, our tolerance, our ability to see things from the other person's point of view is not mirrored by the other side, be they Republicans or the Taliban. They think good manners is a sign of weakness. Let's show 'em they are wrong.
People: If the fight's in the mud, you're gonna get dirty. This nicey nice, play-by-the-rules attitude has gotten us precisely where we are today. The gloves are off! Let's be focused, strategic, and united. Vote in November. And let's definitely vote this bum in the White House out in 2020.
52
While our "President" is probably up and actively Tweeting (in Minnesota, it is 6 A.M.), he is also probably spending his boundless energy platforming
Himself as the Greatest and defending Himself against his worthless
Enemies. I spent over 50 years "meddling in people's' lives as. Licensed
Family Therapist and Lutheran pastor and chaplain. My wife and I avoid
All political discussion in this present chaotic Day. That was the case two days ago, at Dinner with Friends, who are Trump supporters, solely on the Abortion issue. I do not even attempt to "reason" with this couple and
explain that "President" Trump is a verifiable Sociopathic Personality Disorder. It amazes me that, as I follow "comments" in NYT, only Jemli
and Socrates use the "Sociopathic" term in discussion about Trump.
His free-floating Lying heads the list of symptoms displayed so chronically in the holder of the Oval Office and the self-serving Leader of Government.
He is beyond Treatment; we,the People, are Sick.
26
Richard. Thank you for this comment. Beyond any perceived positive policy we need to get it we have a sociopathic President representing all of us on the world stage. What else matters really ?
4
Trump's policies harm people.
How can decent people just go with the flow and condone insulting our allies, caging children, blowing up the deficit, obstructing justice, appointing unqualified secretaries, supporting white supremacists, choosing Putin over US Intelligence, and lying consistently?
No.
When all is said and done, let it be known that Jane M. Jordan condemns President Trump, Republican Lawmakers, and those citizens who support the policies that harm men, women, children, and other living things.
It's time to fight against the forces who put personal gain and profit over American citizens and our Constitution!
#AllBlueBallots!
75
Since John Brennan has said that to believe that Trump did not collude with Russia is “hogwash,” I propose an alternative moniker to “deplorables” for his voters, defenders and supporters. How about “unindicted co-conspirators”?
15
I've lost respect for my younger brother and my aunt who both voted for Trump. I also cut my aunt out of my will and refuse to speak to her. Just the thought of interacting or conversing with someone who holds so much hate in their hearts and drinks of the illiberal, racist, misogynist, anti-science koolaid that Trump, Fox News and the Republican Party is selling, sickens me.
Another story, my friend's partner loves Trump but my friend loves Rachel Meadow and social democracies. In the last two years their relationship has gotten progressively rocky with both of them attacking each other on facts/fake news. I honestly don't know how she can take the stress of their relationship.
52
The largest percentage of voters are not represented by either democrats or republicans. The parties are privately run organizations that exclude new parties and new ideas, and use public money to run elections. Gerrymandering and voter purges are the order of the day. Voting machines easily rigged with few fixes on the horizon. When vote purging is discovered and proven, like the 250 thousand purged from the new york dem primary in'16, no legal remedies are undertaken. Money drives the lobbyists and congress' vote. The people get the shaft. Mad? You bet I am.
6
In a respectful marriage, why would you leave a Trump coffee cup lying around? Might this kind of baiting be a low grade of abuse?
49
@Jay Why
A dirty coffee cup, with the assumption that the wife was going to wash it! Speaks volumes, doesn't it.
9
The central factor underlying the current political anger is the broad disgust of the American people at how poorly the government has served them for the last 50 years or so. Favors for the rich, immunity from competition for drug makers, sloppy handling of finances, inane wars, gerrymandering, questionable campaign funding and so on. Many folks despise the Congress but feel that it the other side that causes the problem. The liberals get all that wasteful welfare spending passed and the conservatives cut useful programs in favor of tax cuts, and so on. If we cleaned up districting, re-aligned campaign financing, and installed term limits we might get back to a government of, by and FOR the people that would be highly respected by all.
4
Start with trickle down.
1
The intolerance and hatred is clearly mostly on the left. During eight years of Obama, you didn't see conservatives marching in the streets, destroying property, blocking roads, screaming at police.
As someone famously said, the Democrats haven't been this mad since the Republicans took away their slaves.
27
@Jackie I find your comment hilarious. Even your comment is meant to inflame by blaming the current Democratic Party for slavery. You know that's not true (as Republicans became the anti-civil rights, Southern (White)Strategy party in the 1960s). And, marching in the streets is Free Speech. Remember the First Amendment? You're upset by people exercising their constitutionally-protected rights?
11
@Jackie
Have you forgotten the Tea Party?
3
@Jackie: What are you talking about? What people marching and screaming in the streets? The only protests that I can think of were organized by Black Lives Matter in protest of police brutality, which seemed like a pretty reasonable thing to protest, considering the numbers of black people who are unfairly treated in the justice system. And none of those protests were very large or disorderly. They trained protesters to concentrate upon non-violent protest in the spirit of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Do we live in the same country? Because I missed all of the terrible events you are talking about. Perhaps you watch a lot of TV news? That might explain why you are convinced that protests were out of hand, because TV news depends upon sensationalism and they all play up any sort of violence, to make it look as if life is far more dangerous than it really is.
Try reading more and watching less TV. It really does change one's perspective.
3
Politics is not dividing this country. Technology and media is.
Just think what would happen if the internet went down for one week.
9
@Matt and took teevee with it
I'm an independent who tells people it's because the Democrats are too far to the right for me. Still, I have yet to unfriend anyone despite Mr. Trump and the current Republican Party's far right stance. What I find most troubling about the recent fawning and blind loyalty to Trump and far right "issues" such as immigration is the lack of knowledge on the part of the followers.
The Trump supporters described here and in the countless other stories completely lack any understanding of the issues. They have not a clue what the problems are with immigration, tariffs, running up huge deficits and debt, etc. They simply latch onto sound bites.
Prior to the election when discussing issues with any Trump supporter they would invariably invoke the "I hate Hillary." I would then list issues and ask if they were in favor or against and they would come down on the side of Clinton on virtually all of them. When pointed out to them, they would simply say, "Yeah, but I hate that woman" or something to that effect.
If people are not only uneducated but proud of that fact and unwilling to learn, there's not much one can do.
72
I think the Democrats severely underestimated exactly how unpopular Hillary was with a large portion of the population. Her stated positions were largely irrelevant ... none of those folks trusted that she was telling the truth about them.
3
@John Good point. But I'm still baffled as to why they believed Trump and still hold on to that belief.
@John: and how ironic is it that they voted for someone who lies on a daily basis...
And what really drives the wedge and partisan spirit? The triumvirate of the bias mainline media (the NYT included), partisan academia, and Hollywood elites who have always been out of touch with reality. If the news media would actually report the news instead of seeking to make the news and turn every article into an op-ed piece, that would go a long way towards building a bridge. As long as identity politics is the cause de jure of the day, we aren't going to go anywhere except backwards. And I don't see that changing anytime soon. During the era of Obama, the triumvirate of media, academia, and Hollywood felt embolden and things went from bad to worse--race relations really took a nose dive under Obama, and Trump gets the blame. Now the triumvirate is just using Trump as an excuse for their own bad behavior as if the Devil made them do it.
10
@MC62 Race relations took a "nose dive" (in your mind) because so many people couldn't tolerate a black man as President. It angered them that somehow a calm, cool, collected, educated, upright black man was Commander-in-Chief. A lot of whites felt personally offended that he "made it" but they did not. And I notice you're writing from Cape Town. Not a great record on race relations.
7
@MC62
How did Obama make worse relations worse?
Politics in my house growing up was something akin to "history." It was the story of government, the pendulum swing from liberal to conservative administrations (some more maddening than others), but there was always the sense that the vaunted system of "checks and balances" would tamp down anyone who went too far, and eventually the next election cycle would provide the opportunity to get some relief. The Supreme Court was outside the fray. If there were death watches for the older justices and secret cabals preparing lists of candidates to step over the body, it didn't penetrate our consciousness.
Character mattered. Nixon exhausted our capacity to overlook slime. Clinton's disgusting White House behavior was (correctly) judged not to be a high crime, but became the absolute low water mark. In many respects he brought us Trump, as much of the electorate couldn't even bear the sound of the words "President Clinton" again.
Maybe it's the rise of the internet and social media, maybe it's the stagnation of wages and the kids of Boomers being worse off than their parents, maybe it's the absurd intrusion of religion into government, maybe it's growing income inequality or the education chasm in certain parts of the country, certainly it's got something to do with diversity being loved by some and despised by others.
Here is my story: an Obama-hating Trump-loving relative refuses to acknowledge that Obamacare rescued the new great-grandchild who needed two spinal surgeries.
69
I do not like this president. Nevertheless, the smugness of Clinton voters astounds me. We've stopped seeing therapists, optometrists, and an accountant because they feel it's ok to viciously criticize the president.
Sixty million Americans voted for Trump. Does it occur to the people who hate him there's a very good chance the person you're speaking to is one of these 60 million people? Does it occur to you Trump voters hated Obama every bit as much as you hate Trump? In my experience in public, no one bad mouthed Obama at every opportunity no matter who was listening.
Americans who support this president can not watch late night television, award shows, or football without constantly hearing your opinion. For decades Johnny Carson entertained everyone. No one knew his political opinion. How was it possible Obama and Clinton for the most part escaped the scorn and wrath of these people? Were they above criticism?
"Resistance" is not merely whining. If it were, it could be ignored. "Resistance" is the belief any means, legal or illegal, are permitted to overturn the results of a democratic election. Only one side has engaged in this anti-democratic agenda, and it isn't the Republican side.
Trump is hardly a unifier, no one doubts that. But your reaction to him is your decision. Your lack of respect for the beliefs of others is the cause of this division. Neither the press nor the left has any appreciation for the cause of America's division.
16
You conveniently leave out that the election was manipulated if you believe our intelligence services rather than who appears to be a self-serving President.
15
@jkemp I actually considered voting for Trump at one point and voted for Clinton instead. The resistance isn't whining. It's refusal to go along with Trump and his "rub salt in the wound" hostile nastiness. I disagree with the Republicans that public schools are meant to be dismantled to pay back charter real estate grifters. I disagree that Social Security and Medicare are too expensive. As a former military wife, I disagree that everything military is perfect and worth spending more money on, while everything for people in need or distress is to be mocked. I also think Trump is the shadiest character every elected to the Presidency.
366
And I refused to go along with "if you like your doctor you can keep him" or "if I had a son he'd look like Trayvon Martin" or "the police in Cambridge acted stupidly" or any of the other divisive, lies that Obama said. But I never denied he won 2 elections fair and square. I never pretended I was the French Resistance in World War II while sitting at Starbucks in luxury and at no risk of getting arrested, tortured, and executed.
Claiming you are the "resistance" when all you are is a whiner is a disgrace.
Disagree with whatever you want, I disagree with this president also. But the divisiveness among the American public comes from a group of people who lost the election and are extraordinarily nasty in return. It's not coming from the other direction.
Ken Storey needs a good attorney to take on the University of Tampa.
To lose one's job over a personal, political but non-hateful brief expression of opinion that had nothing to do with his employment is outrageous and illegal.
29
It's not a question of politics, it's a question of morality and basic human decency. Trump voters cannot be trusted to be decent human beings, nor to care about the difference between right and wrong, true and false, etc.
52
@The Pooch yes, snce Trump was elected the media and the left have not behaved morally or decently.
1
This article is about Mr. Putin, though he is not mentioned. He masterminded this. He must be smiling.
24
@seriousreader
Democrats have played right into Putin's trap by claiming that Trump stole the election, etc., etc. They have really been useful idiots.
I'm currently living in Texas and it's like living among the pod people from the Body Snatchers politically. I'm watching reasonably intelligent people lose all semblance of reason when it comes to Trump. I'm afraid they have too much self-esteem invested in Trump not to stick with him no matter how unglued and off the rails he becomes. It's a relief to sever friendships with closed-minded pod people rather than suffering through inane arguments about Trump, who is using and making fools out of these people. When this is all over, I’ll bet you won't be able to find anyone who will admit ever voting for Trump.
106
@Wally Wolf people will admit they voted for Trump until he destroys our country.
It's a mistake to assume the correlation between education level and Trump support. Our college, formerly a fairly congenial institution, has split since 2016. Half of us no longer speak to the other half.
9
@Blythewell
Actually there is a correlation. Of the 50 States, regarding public education, 8 of the top 10 voted Democrat. Of those ranked 41 to 50, 9 out 10 voted Republican. Perhaps that’s why Republicans are always trying to cut public education?
2
College is unfortunately not necessarily a way to judge intelligence. It's a way to judge how well folks can jump through hoops. A lot of folks leave higher education with new knowledge and wisdom, but forgive me for saying it, we've all heard stories of people who sort of drank or drugged their way through college and while making passing grades, never really learned much. There are also welders with genius level IQ. Stands to reason that about half the people at a college are the hoop jumpers and about half have actually nurturing their intelligence. That rate probably changes in different colleges, but it really makes sense to me. Privledge plays a role in this to be sure.
6
@Susan The statements indicating a correlation referred to education level. Equating education level with I.Q. appears to be your personal assumption. For the run-of-the mill undergraduate college degree there in fact may well be no correlation between graduation and intelligence.
1
It started, for me, with the blood lust excited by GWB in his enthusiasm for the invasion of Iraq. Reason went out the window as I argued fruitlessly with friends that the invasion was illegal, unwise, and unjustified. I was so appalled by a friend who was rooting for pain to be inflicted on Iraqis that I could never exchange another word with him. I lost another friend when she married a hard core conservative and transformed from a reasonable NYC liberal to a Fox news fanatic and hater of Clinton and then Obama. Another friend shocked me, after years of friendship and literally no idea what his politics were, by calling me "far left" and telling me heatedly he believed every word Sean Hannity said. Another friend sent me articles by Rush Limbaugh. I gradually came to realize that the revolution had started without me and I was deemed the enemy by many close to me. Is it any wonder I don't want to socialize with them? It sets my teeth on edge. If you can watch Trump on TV and not feel utterly revolted, I don't know you and I don't really want to know you.
125
You hit the mail on the head. These folks have been brainwashed by decades of Rush, Sean, Fox, et. al.
1
Born and raised in Massachusetts, I worked and lived much of my professional life in the South. Though liberal, at no time were politics any source of friction. Fortunately I retired in 2015 and reinforced by design, my personal contacts have been reduced to a bare minimum.
The Trump phenomenon is more personal than political. He is a needy, piggish lout with neither character nor intellect but unfortunately his failings as a human being have been inextricably connected to legitimate political discourse. Americans have, with the spectacular exception of the Civil War, weathered numerous political storms but Trumps astoundingly odious personality has created a Perfect Storm.
60
The problem with talking to Trump supporters about politics is that they live in an ‘alternative facts’ universe where black is white and white is black. How do you discuss any issue when you can’t agree on basic facts?
When you break down the factual basis of reality, friendships die. It’s so bad these days that my family won’t attend the wedding of a relative who supported Trump. I’ve lost several friends. Our dog, who is clearly a Democrat, won’t sniff the tails of Trump dogs.
You have to wonder, where does this end? Will there be a second civil war, or will America put on a show of solidarity against the divisive rhetoric and simply kick Trump out in 2020?
57
I keep asking if they support cops or Trump. The FBI, the highest order of cops in the country, and the CIA, who, info gather I suppose... Have been thrown under the bus by Trump. He doesn't support them. He's made that very clear. So it becomes an either/or fallacy that has broken a few Trump supporters. So many are vehemently Blue Lives Matter that when posed this question, they just break. No straight answer, usually walk away from me.
I'm a pretty-ish white girl, no one is starting physical fights with me, but boy do they want to after I so challenge them.
8
@Mr. Adams
My wife challenged a friend about that on Facebook. Her reply was that that's what is great about America - you could believe your own facts.
How can you have a discussion with that mindset?
2
@Mr. Adams Civil war is inevitable. In the 19th century we had a civil war followed by reconstruction followed by a Gilded Age. Our current Gilded Age will lead to a serious effort at reconstruction (under the next Democratic President) and conservatives will react by starting a civil war. The key is not to start the civil war early. The example of the first Civil War proves that the Federal government can't lose militarily (although it lost politically in Reconstruction).
A couple of thoughts:
1. I feel sorry for Ken Storey, because I probably felt the same way to some degree. The fact that a state that elects federal representatives who deny climate change and a city that believes in having as few regulations as possible would get walloped by a massive storm and subsequent flooding does seem to have a tinge of just desserts. But the truth is that if one were to personally see the devastation and misery it inflicted, it would be difficult to gloat. Further, Mr. Stoney’s Florida is not much different. Senator Rubio twists himself into pretzels to avoid linking climate change and its human causes to what is going on today. And I’d remind the country that even in Deep Red states, 40% of us don’t vote Republican. My own Kansas is a good example of that.
2. I think the Times nailed it when it wrote that those that despise Trump can’t help but feel that a vote for Trump is a sign of either deep ignorance or a deep character flaw. (I added the part about “ignorance” as a lesser of two evils excuse for voting for Trump. Maybe the voter just gets their information from Fox News, Facebook or the National Enquirer). The Trump election and continued support for him in evangelical Christian circles has also exposed the hypocrisy of many in that group as well — which pains me to no end as someone who accepted Christ into my life 30 years ago. The Trump election has forever changed my view of many of my fellow Americans.
93
It's as if these supporters have forgotten how to count. 1 then 2 then comes 3 and so on. Counting is fact. Facts are not partisan. Maybe we should start here
4
Politics is about the acquisition and use of power to make (or remake) society according to the ideas of those who succeed in wielding it. So there is a deep dichotomy - on one hand the desire for power is inherently emotional, but the ideas that political power is intended to serve - policy -are inherently rational. There is therefore always a resistance in politics to listening to the other side's ideas, even if we agree that the other side has a right to espouse such ideas.
But we are beyond that now.
We have entered a period in politics in which opposing views are not just resisted but rather considered illegitimate, and those who espouse them are personally attacked. The press as "the enemy of the people." "Lying Hillary." "Wacky Omarosa." The examples pile up daily.
In short, we have descended into a political environment in which discourse about policy is impossible. In this atmosphere, no compromise can be reached on policy --the other side must not just be ignored but debased and delegitimized. However, compromise is the essence of unifying different views and moving policy forward for the benefit of the people, not those in power.
We will have to suffer in this toxic political atmosphere until the administration changes, and hopefully the fog of hatred politics dissipates.
10
I'm a bit surprised by this newfound awareness of political differences. As a republican, I do see it's worse than under previous administrations, but it was pretty bad in the past too.
Romney was pilloried on the front page of the NYT daily during his campaign (I once counted 6 hit pieces). He neither swore, cheated nor tweeted. As an open Bush supporter, people would whisper to me they supported him too. Trump's behavior is just used as an excuse to really let loose.
Republicans are used to being vilified for their political views. What's changed is the extremism and lack of control of the left. It has lost all semblance of propriety. Now anything goes. Completely justified, too, in its mind.
9
@AACNY You Republicans dragged down the level of discourse since Reagan and now you're whining that the Dems are fighting dirty?! It'd be funny if it weren't UnAmerican.
4
Right on @AACNY. While the right was able to acknowledge that Obama was inexperienced, ineffectual and undemocratic; they never even came close to the utter hysterics we see now.
It is really hard to follow the news, reading many publications and parsing where the truth lies. Even good publications omit truths they don't like. It is even harder to refrain from discussing politics with people whom I know share my politics but not my fear or fervor. It is easy not to discuss politics with acquaintances and family members who hold the opposite opinions from mine. I have zero friends who hold such [harmful, idiotic - did I say that out loud?] opinions, for good or ill. It is really hard to turn off the news; I would feel comforted but ignorant, and as a nation we cannot afford to have a largely comfortable, ignorant population. Unfortunately, many of us have opted for that, such as the football players who don't know who Manafort is. Kneeling, not kneeling, how can you not know? Some 40% of us are already ignorant and angry; the rest of us cannot afford to be ignorant and comfortable.
2
Living in France, I don’t meet many people, French or otherwise who have anything nice to say about Trump. However, one of my husband’s tennis buddies (French) teased me mercilessly all last year about Trump. On one occasion, he even presented me with a Trump mug, which I found so frustrating and upsetting that, though I managed to maintain my composure, it ruined a friendly get together for me. This teasing got so bad that I finally told him in no uncertain terms that what was happening in the US, whether he realized it or not, was not funny to me as an American citizen, but sad and dangerous. He got the message and may still tease me on occasion, but never about Trump!
26
@Susan Teasing is not a suitable attempt at communication or humor even for small children, who must be trained out of teasing, whining, pouting, name-calling etc. That an adult does this is a sign that you should not have anything to do with such a stunted and just plain mean person. I'm sorry you're stuck with him until your husband can cut him.
2
Trump voters wanted to shake things up. Fine.
But they voted for a man who wanted to do much more than that. He is a wannabe king and is trying to destroy our democracy.
And while we wait in vain for them to realize their mistake, we watch our nation destroy itself and see a grim future for our children. We see a nation of people who were once kind and generous set up camps to take children away from parents and use them as hostages to satisfy the blood lust of a base of voters.
There are many to blame for this decline of the country we love, but most of the final blame rests on the Trump supporters. They have enabled and encouraged, like a frenzied mob, the rape of our country, our kindness and truth.
And we are somehow supposed to be civil to these people? These people who make death threats against anyone who has the courage to speak up? People who see kindness and empathy as weaknesses, not virtues?
They only respond to one thing. Power.
We have one chance left to get that power. And it's coming up in November. If the Democrats don't win big, expect Trump and the Republicans to continue their dismantling of the government that brought peace and security to most of the world and a rule of law that let us thrive both economically and morally.
As one of the other commentators pointed out, this is a civil war. In some respects, I'm surprised it is as "civil" as it is. If the Democrats don't win big, it will get even worse.
43
How one feels about a political leader is revealing.
If you supported Obama who genuinely tried to unite the country, even while wearing a tan suit, you wanted to be part of the solution.
If you support Trump who intentionally divides the country through his actions and tweets--e.g. blaming HIS policy of family separation on democrats--is it fair to conclude you are part of the problem?
28
With the manipulated division history captured during the 1920's and '30's in Europe and its horrific results amongst its peoples laid out for eternity, how is it we are in this place today in our own country?
Do those who are publicly supporting President Trump and his opinions, lies, and exaggerations not know and understand the implications of how 'history' has them and their legacies, for all time, in its crosshairs?
What we are witnessing on behalf of members of the Republican Party is indefensible and they will wear their decisions around their necks like a noose forever. Don't they see this? Do they not understand their descendants will have to accept and try to rationalize the behavior for generations, ultimately like the descendants of those 20's and 30's 30's leaders for all time having to accept and explain those actions and the results to that gross behavior?
Ultimately, How can they be so cowardly and shortsighted?
21
I have wondered the same but they have made their choice: they are all in.
Why? First and foremost, it pays well. Koch Brothers, Adelson, Barrack, Mercer, Olin, Bradley, DeVos and the Dark Money crowd will be more reliant on them as the GOP national base shrinks - the demographics are not favorable - but still prevails locally and regionally. Money is currency of their politics.
They will always have Fox News as a platform and echo chamber.
McConnell in the Senate and Meadows in the House have proven the effective of the tyranny of the minority in the legislative process.
Think about it: fame and fortune await if you are willing to ignore the basis tenets of decency and fairness. The frothing at the mouth lawmakers like Jordan are comical but it's the types like Rubio who are really the next generation of the GOP.
3
The two sides view each other as a threat to the American way of life. And they're both right: each side defines "America" differently.
For the left, it's about a pluralistic, educated, tolerant, and society that offers equality of opportunity.
For the right, it's about the freedom to live independently, on their own terms, without interference.
Each side correctly views the other as a threat to those visions of society, because they are in conflict. Each is happy to jettison the others' values in pursuit of their own.
Neither is interested in the great American value of compromise.
16
@Just a Thought Yeah, no. The Republicans want to control things their way (abortion, gay marriage, immigration, no regulation, pollution, corporate rule, etc), not live and let live.
9
@Just a Thought
Well put, and very thoughtful, respectful of both views. This is the type of analysis we need more of.
5
The anger and divisions started the day Barack Obama was elected President in 2008, and it has continued to metastize ever since. For a considerable portion of our citizens, a Black in the White House was intolerable and disgraceful. For a considerable portion of the electorate, Obama was a fresh, inspiring new face. Many invested their hopes and dreams in the new President, perhaps too much so and by underestimating the headwinds he would face.
The Obama opposition went into DEFCON 5 mode, fueled by Citizens United cash, and cobbled together a well-oiled propaganda apparatus that is now operating on a full takeover mission. Russia has latched on to this effort and exacerbated it.
Trump directly benefitted from the Obama pushback and amplified it with his authoritarian proclivities and a shockingly passive Republican Congress.
And here we are today, living in an era quite similar to the assault on post-Civil War Reconstruction. The wounds from that confrontation have never healed. The difference is that we have a President who has tapped into these latent, long-simmering feelings with the precision of a mad dentist drilling straight through a tooth.
Only a cleansing in November, and new, courageous and encompassing leadership can right the ship before it crashes on to the shoals.
520
@PaulB67 We really need to paint that building red, white and blue, so people get the idea that not only whites can live there.
I completely agree. We did not realize until later how many would hate President Obama merely due to his race. We severely underestimated the racism bubbling up that had been dormant in so many. That's another reason the same people hated Hillary as much as they did...a woman in the White House after 8 years of a black man sent these same folks into spasms of fear and resentment. I remember one person even saying, "And she's a Clinton-blacks love the Clintons!" So, it's racism followed closely by misogyny...these are our nation's greatest sins and we obviously have a lot of work to do til we conquer those as evidenced by Trump's favorite dogwhistles when he race baits and denigrates blacks and immigrants and his followers cheer. It's truly a horrible reckoning as Trump and his supporters have exposed America's underbelly of hate and fear.
6
@PaulB67
DEFCON 5 is quiet peace time. I presume you meant DEFCON 1.
1
This is absurd. I’m a Republican, who does not support Trump. I look at him as a fool, but I don’t disparage his supporters as I understand their angst. I also don’t disparage people who dislike him. I’m more interested in policy differences, but don’t take it so personally that it would interfere with a relationship. People disagree. That’s fine, but there is more to life than politics and policy.
21
I appreciate your sentiments but you should remember that this is more than just “opinions.” Trump’s policies have hurt many people through the assault on Obamacare, the environment, race relations, free trade...need I go on. Democrats and real Republicans such as yourself need to unite to confront this threat to our country.
4
@DRS writes, " That’s fine, but there is more to life than politics and policy."
Not if you are a sick person with no insurance.
9
@DRS - This president's "policy differences" are extremely "personal" if one happens to personally be: female, brown-skinned, poor, gay…
Life is politics/policy.
9
We are living in the early stage of the decline and fall of the United States. Not as a military power but as a decent, healthy place to live and raise a family. We have lost our moral compass which has nothing to do with religion.
Mr. Storey's experience reflects our free fall. Mr. Storey, consider writing a book about your experience...make your living by telling your story in the context of what is happening in America.
And what is happening in America? And in many other countries, for that matter.
Differing opinions on politics and policy are nothing new. Strong beliefs and feelings are nothing new. Hatreds and biases are nothing new.
What is new is technology available to all to immediately broadcast opinions, beliefs, hatreds and biases. And exploiting this technology is an insecure child-man propped up by wealth and corruption to insult, threaten and bully anyone who stands in his way; a person who has no ethics, no morals, no filter and no scruples in manipulating others for his own sick needs. Insulting others and extracting revenge make him feel good about himself.
Technology is the means, Trump is the catalyst to release the worst instincts in human nature. He has freed people from the shame of behaving badly; he has promoted harmful and indecent behavior. He is the antithesis of civilized society.
But not all parties are equally guilty. Democrats/Liberals do not make death threats, do not troll and harass Republicans/Conservatives/Christian hypocrites.
94
@jabarry
Yep, that’s right: those darn republicans. It’s all there fault.
Did you not read the article. It was literally about you. Talk about aelf fulfilling.
2
@Jordan
Calling Christians who support Trump hypocrites is an honest assessment of their belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ. You can't be a follower of Jesus and a supporter of Trump without being a hypocrite. Would Jesus call for hecklers to be punched in the face? Do you disagree?
Maxine Waters called for holding Trump supporters accountable for their lies, chaos and harm to civil discourse. Giving Trump supporters a taste of their own incivility is hardly a crime. Give me an example of a Liberal who has researched the address of a Trump supporter's family and left death threats from blocked phones.
Your source of disinformation no doubt comes from Fox and Fools or some right-wing-nuts on radio or the Internet. They rely heavily on Russian trolls and American fools to spread fake news of Black Lives Matter and college Liberals.
Why are you commenting on opinion pieces in the Times? Certainly you do not read the Times...you do not seek truth or facts.
Check your sources and ask yourself if you prefer truth and facts or just validation of your biases and hatreds.
This article pacifies the real issue - The moral collapse, outright bigotry, hypocrisy and double standards that many supporters of the President embrace or ignore. Supporting Trump isn't a politcal issue it's a moral one, given that his platform and base supported manufactured false attacks aimed at smearing Clinton, attacks on the free press, our most loyal international allies, our healthcare system, the environment and the American spirit. All while the President uses his Twitter bully pulpit to squash common sense and transparency.
This has nothing to do with being a Republican or a Democratic and everything to do with being a compassionate and fair human being that prefers a naton built out of shared goals - Not fear or conspiracy theories. Facist tendencies are being cheered by his cult like worshippers which can never be accepted as this goes far beyond any political affiliation.
264
@David
Everything you just said could be applied to any president.
You are just as biased as the ones you denounce, yet you are clearly unaware of such bias.
2
@Jessei’s Girl......Hello. Trump is several degrees out of line with any other President in the history of our country. Past Presidents may have been divisive in their campaign, but I can think of no other President who continued to be deliberately divisive after election.
A comment suggests that it is ironic that all of this plays into the hands of Putin and the Russians, who meddled in our elections. When one realizes that we now have a Russian mole, asset, agent, spy, call it what you will, in the Oval Office, there is absolutely nothing whatsoever ironic about it. No less a personage than former CIA chief John Brennan has said that to think that Trump did not collude with the Kremlin is “hogwash”. The irony is that millions of ostensibly patriotic so-called Republicans support someone who, with his every expression and action, is doing the bidding of our most dangerous enemy. Even some attendees at Trump’s Klan rallies have been seen sporting t-shirts with the inscription “I’d Rather Be Russian Than Democratic”. Now that’s ironic!
108
@Steve Griffith
Please stop promoting this absurd lie.
Educate yourself. Learn the facts
regarding this administration's ACTUAL policies toward Russia.
Contrary to his tweets and to the bogus narrative about being Putin's puppet, Trump has hit Russia hard on every front. The list is extensive:
- Trump reversed Obama's policy of refusing lethal military aid to Ukraine, and approved (Apr. 30) selling the extraordinarily effective Javelin anti-tank missiles to Ukraine. Like the Patriot missile sales, this is a game-changer, and the Russians are infuriated by it.
- Trump reversed Obama's policy re. sales of our most potent missile defense system to both Poland and Sweden. Putin fears this military weapon more than any other in our arsenal.
- Trump reversed Obama's Syria policy and directly confronted Russia on the ground, killing or wounding hundreds of Russian mercenaries and soldiers in Syria.
- Trump more than tripled defense initiatives to deter Russian aggression in Europe, including staging maneuvers on Russia's borders. and increasing the budget for same by ~50% over what Obama allocated.
- Trump sanctioned ~40 oligarchs and Russian officials, expanded the Magnitsky sanctions list, closed two consulates, diplomatic annexes, and expelled 60 diplomats.
Educate yourself. We're on a war footing With Russia.
2
@T-Bone
Thank you. The Trump Administration has been very tough on Russia. He started with Obama's policies and kept getting tougher. Meanwhile, his critics demand he put Putin over his knee and spank him.
I am a historian and this comes to me as no surprise. The anti Trump people are horrified but this type of situation is not new.
Never underestimate the power of an ego maniac demagogue like Trump luring the people in, even in America.
These people have been throughout history from the first one Alcibiades in classical Greece to one of the last ones Chavez in Venz.
They eventually ruin their countries, usually economically.
The best way to defeat a demagogue in a democracy is to call them out when they do something horrendous, but listen to the issues that the demagogue demagogued and offer answers to them that can win some of the Trump people over.
Don't offer extreme ideological answers just moderate proposals.
A great deal of Trump people held their noses when they voted for him.
249
@Paul - I agree with you beginning, but in many cases "moderate proposals" will just not work.
I know sports analogies are all the rage, but I am a mathematician, so let me give an arithmetical one:
Suppose you believe 2 + 3 = 5, but the conservatives say 2 + 3 = 23 because it will save money by not introducing a new digit. You could compromise on 2 + 3 = 14 which is halfway between 5 and 23, but your bridges would still fall down.
The ACA is a moderate proposal on health care that is just not working very well. It is so complex, it is subject to being pecked to death by idiots. Medicare for All is simple, and overwhelming data shows is vastly more efficient.
5
@Paul It unfortunately takes more than just listening and offering good answers. Hilary Clinton actually did adjust her platform in the 2016 to offer answers to those marginalized, and it didn't work enough. Trump will not be beaten politically without serious sustained attacking and occasional underhanded tactics. You don't bring a knife to a firefight.
1
@Paul: Thank you for your accurate historical perspective. Trump is a demagogue and not the first one in American history (see, e.g. Huey Long). Trump is an aberration in American politics whose influence will wane with time. He has come on the scene due to aberrant economic & political circumstances in which the white working class felt betrayed by both parties. If the Dems can nominate a decent, moderate candidate with some real (not academic) empathy for the working class, and stop the nonsense about abolishing ICE and having open borders, Trump will be defeated and gone.
1
Well NYTimes (and the vast majority of the media):
Do you think you are culpable in propelling this environment?
You put forth most (if not all) policy subjects in simple sports analysis; commentary and from the extremes as entertainment. Rather than educating and demonstrating the complexity of issues in an "objective" manner.
But again, like our public servants, the public gets what it deserves when minimal effort is applied.
Its a shame that moderation is silenced....
12
@CD: Exactly how is locking kids in cages a “complex” issue?
20
@CD - It would appear that you and I receive different versions of the NYT. The one I receive focuses on "educating and demonstrating the complexity of issues in an 'objective' manner." Maybe you need to clear your browser?
9
@CD - Your first paragraph is fine, but your last one does not follow from it. We need more discussion on data and history. The logical result may not be what you call moderate.
For example, most moderates believe the federal government should practice "fiscal responsibility," by which they mean the government should spend less than it takes in and pay down the federal debt. BUT history has shown that ALL 6 periods we did that and paid the debt down by 10% or more were ended by one of our 6 terrible depressions.
2
I read this comment on a similar article and thought it worth repeating....Politics is not a team sports, and anybody who picks a favorite is a failure as a citizen.
10
@FJR Agree, I claim no Party. It's not a personality game. Everyone is watching the tree, but doesn't see the forest.
1
@FJR - Admirable sentiment, but unfortunately at odds with reality. Parties govern, not individuals
4
@FJR
Total nonsense. It's not about favorites, it's about right and wrong. There is only one proper choice.
3
All the fundamental problems in this country ultimately break down to education. These people believe the ridiculous fallacies pushed by Trump's legion of propagandists, because we've been cutting education budgets and forcing quality teachers out of the profession for decades.
44
@Sam Rosenberg
I think that's a partial explanation for where we are. But what about Trump supporters who have attended high-quality public schools and private schools?
1
@Sam Rosenberg
What planet do you live on?
The American education system is overwhelmingly liberal. So much so, that it often ends up pushing people away from otherwise reasonable political views.
The echo chambers on the left, are just as resounding as those on the right.
2
I think most of this division can be attributed to the fact that the Republican Party has openly and gleefully built its platform on punishing and attacking “liberals”. Despite having different priorities, Democrats have never taken actions expressly because it punishes Americans that hold other viewpoints. The division is unprecedented because these tactics are unprecedented. There is no meeting of the minds when your opponents only goal is to destroy your way of life. The problem is not “division” — the problem is Republican hate rhetoric. There is no compromise when the other side doesn’t want you to exist.
213
@Kara
"Democrats have never taken actions expressly because it punishes Americans that hold other viewpoints."
Hahahaha
So trying to put a baker out of business because he doesn't support gay marriage isn't punishing someone who holds a different viewpoint?
3
@Kara
Again, another itonic comment proving the extremism and absurdity of what the article described.
1
What is most shocking is when I meet well-educated, otherwise bright people who admit they support Trump. Thankfully they are a tiny minority. Most informed and educated Americans recognize Trump for the scam artist he is.
59
@Jack Noon I am one you are talking about. I too do not like his character. BUT, He is getting things done that I agree with. If he would just shut up.
5
@Matt How much of what he is getting done do you agree with? His handling of the various summits where he actually rolls over for dictators? His immigration implementation, including separating families? His tax cut which created zero jobs, a roaring stock market and huge volumes of stock buybacks? His wall jabbering? His military parade, now cancelled? What do you see in this rolling dumpster fire that says success?
3
Most of my friends and are intelligent educated people who make their judgments based on facts. Trump by his own words and actions is a vulgar bigoted narcissists. I am sorry, but anyone who would support a vulgar bigoted narcissist to represent our country has something seriously wrong with their thought process. They have no concept of what it means to be an American or what is required to successfully run a country.
313
@W.A. Spitzer
I have a problem with someone who calls Trump a "vulgar bigoted narcissist". This is an extremist viewpoint. Unfortunately, most extremists don't see their own.
5
@AACNY Sorry. Trump is a known vulgarian, well documented by the kitty tape. He is indeed bigoted, per testimony from previous employees (who say they have tapes of the n word). And he is mostly definitely clinically narcissistic, as many psychiatrists have determined via tweet analysis.
@AACNY
What part of "vulgar bigoted narcissist" don't you agree with?
"Vulgar"? Well, if I quoted Trump directly about his comments about women's, you know, The New York Times wouldn't publish my post. (It might not anyway.)
"Bigoted"? Well, there are all sorts of instances when Trump has characterized his opponents in very bigoted language. The New York Times would not give me the space I'd need to list them all.
"Narcissist"? Gee, are you really disputing that? Have you seen him shove the PM of Montenegro out of the way at a NATO photo op? Google it, and come back to us with your opinion. Please.
Or is it just the combination of the words "vulgar" and "bigoted" "narcissist" that disturbs you? Well, all I can say is: the truth hurts.
Americans have allowed themselves to be coached and primed, for decades now beginning with Reagan's eight year reign as divider in chief, to the point where we have finally reached our current dysfunctional state of me vs. you public (and private) incivility. Add to the mix our faceless 24/7 social media epidemic of graphic dissemination of political, personal and social insulting bordering on a level of no holds barred hatred I have yet to fully grasp.
Saddest of all for many of us, it seems telling that the day Donald Trump and his characteristic affinity for communicating his stream of consciousness verbal diarrhea and crass insults on a pretty much daily basis, appears to give this hideous green light encouragement to everyone that defaming and belittling others publicly or privately - is somehow acceptable. It's teaching our kids how not to be thoughtful , problem solving individuals. Most of all? I fear for our children who learning from seeing it all, how to hate.
I blame- the people who vote for people who instill hate.
70
In my case its not "political" and its not "anger" it's distress over so many values. Think of he Boy Scout Law "A Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent." as a stand in for the way a true adult acts, and then compare it to the way our leaders act.
I could go point by point but there is no need.
Saying "its political" robs me of the opportunity to seriously discuss what I would like to be different and better.
50
Yes not political but value driven. It defines you. A trump supporter is more likely less educated, racist, older and rural. And how does a decent person support a man who lies with impunity. Can’t be my friend. Sorry I have ethics!
7
@Mary Rivka
Maybe older, maybe less educated, maybe more rural, but I am not sure that racism is a "more likely".
There is plenty of racism to go around and in some circles its a point of pride to force an uncomfortable position for its shock value. (Think loud motorcycles, intimidating trucks etc.)
There may be less experience with diverse populations, fewer opportunities to have someone point out the other side....
This topic will only get more Hot over the next 80 days. And, if the mid-election results don't go as anticipated for those with polarized views, there is potential for real violence. This is indeed a new chapter for US citizens and our way of life.
22
But of course it is about core values rather than "political views." No Republican has ever admired dictators around the world the way this president does. How can I not feel my most basic freedoms are at risk?
254
This is what happens when our political leaders descend into governing through shallow insult and bombast. One man can’t do it alone - we have to let him. And Republican leaders have been especially complicit.
Remember when Clinton used the term “deplorable “? Most of us winced and thought it was highly regrettable. And she apologized. Sounds quaint now.
132
@Cousy - Actually the word has been brutally rippied out of context:
"You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?
The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic — you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up. He has given voice to their websites that used to only have 11,000 people — now how 11 million. He tweets and retweets their offensive hateful mean-spirited rhetoric. Now, some of those folks — they are irredeemable, but thankfully they are not America. But the other basket — and I know this because I see friends from all over America here — I see friends from Florida and Georgia and South Carolina and Texas — as well as, you know, New York and California — but that other basket of people are people who feel that the government has let them down, the economy has let them down, nobody cares about them, nobody worries about what happens to their lives and their futures, and they’re just desperate for change. It doesn’t really even matter where it comes from. They don’t buy everything he says, but he seems to hold out some hope that their lives will be different. They won’t wake up and see their jobs disappear, lose a kid to heroine, feel like they’re in a dead-end. Those are people we have to understand and empathize with as well."
http://time.com/4486502/hillary-clinton-basket-of-deplorables-transcript/
10
I think one way to unite again as Americans is to try to focus on the issues. To try to bore down to the core beliefs of Republicans and Democrats. And since Republicans have controlled the House, the Senate and the Whitehouse for almost two years, it should easy to see their priorities by what they have, and what they have not, accomplished.
Since Trump took office, we pulled out of the Paris Climate Accord, passed a major tax law that favors the rich, eliminated overtime for federal workers and weakened labor Unions, limited access to health insurance for all Americans, pulled out of the nuclear arms agreement with Iran, publicly support Russia and criticize our European allies, have done nothing on infrastructure and have openly disparaged a free press. So if you're a Republican, you must support these policies.
If you're a Democrat, you would generally support the opposite, you want to battle climate change; allow the wealthy to pay their fair share of taxes; support labor unions and the working class; support healthcare as a right not a privilege; stop Iran from developing a nuclear weapon; you still think Russia is our enemy and that European nations are our allies; you want to repair the nations infrastructure and you believe that a free press is essential for a healthy democracy.
We don't have to argue over personalities. Let's just stick to the policy.
166
@thetruthfirst
1. The Paris Climate Accord was a joke. READ IT. It would do nothing but move industry to developing countries and solve anything.
2. The tax cut was not just for the rich. It help me a lot and I am anything but rich. I do not care what the rich have. I only worry about me.
3. The Iran deal. Please - Billions of dollars on pallets, and you think they would stick to an agreement. Laughable
4. The EU should pay for their fare share of NATO. Why not?
5
Hear! Hear!
@thetruthfirst
LOL at that "fake news".
I have been learning that the values by which my parents raised me — decency, honesty and consideration for others — are not shared by many Americans. I have come to realize that many on the so-called “hard right” tend to display cruel selfishness, disregard and intolerance toward others, and to believe hearsay rather than facts.
I no longer believe that it is possible to find common ground with such people. Instead, I believe that we centrists and people on the left will need to out-organize and out-vote our opponents. Enough is enough!
476
And by taking that militant view you are disavowing decency yourself.
4
@Michael
There is no common ground to find. Clearly.
When in any American's wildest imagination could we think that republicans would willingly - willingly support a puppet (ignorant or not) of the Russian government?
And even if you don't think he's a puppet - the Russians hacked our election and they don't care. The republicans are trying to shut down an investigation into a foreign attack on us!
I don't know who these people are but I can tell you they are not patriotic Americans. Not a single one of them.
VOTE!
1
@DRS Wrong. Taking a stand against lies and bigotry is the definition of decency.
Media envelops us like an ether, constantly offering us stimulus. One stimulus offered by news media is that of outrage. It would seem like outrage would be a sensation people want to avoid. Isn't outrage negative, something repugnant? And yet, how many people go to a news site or social media platform expecting to be outraged and to express outrage? How many media outlets- from an individual's blog to major news networks- and authors and politicians deliberately serve up material knowing they will generate outrage? (You, too, NYT). I often think of America as divided between the right's WWE narrative- all heroes and heels; and the left's Jerry Springer audience-like Twitter mobs, Stalinism meets Jerry Springer in the form of a Twitter mob. The Outrage Media Complex.
Politics has always been mean and nasty, and we've always complained about the meanness and nastiness of politics. It isn't the nature of politics that has changed it is the fact that politics now is everywhere and everything. It seems every phenomenon has a latent political capacity. Myself and many others I know confess to often thinking about how a seemingly mundane action or statement might be cast politically and then attacked. It is like we have all fallen under a mob surveillance.
As Ms. Lukensmeyer says, it is a virus and it has infected the whole body politic.
8
@Seth - Your comment is an example of false equivalence. There is truth, data and history, and there are lies. There is simply no contest between the party.
17
@Seth
Quit it with the "both sides do it" narrative. One side is right, one is wrong. If you cannot see that then you are beyond redemption.
12
@Seth
While I agree that neither side is perfect, I also think that is a meaningless rubric to use in understanding how we got to this point or in assessing who is at fault.
The simple fact is that one party has done far more harm to this country and its citizens than the other. It's not a matter of opinion or interpretation, it is starkly apparent in the legislative record; what manner of issues are brought to a vote, who votes on them.
2
At the very end of this story we learn 35% of Democrats would dump / have ditched a friend for voting for Trump, while only 13% of Republicans would jettison a friend for voting for Clinton. That is Pew data. So a reliable and huge 22-point gap in tolerance.
That is mirrored in Tech and Academia where conservatives are not hired / not promoted / censored / fired when their political and economic views are discovered.
Why are liberals 22% less tolerant?
19
@Frank.... So a reliable and huge 22-point gap in tolerance..... First, I am a pragmatists not a liberal or progressive. Second, if someone choses to support a vulgar bigoted narcissist, they do not deserve to be tolerated by anyone for any reason. It follows that your conclusion is wrong - that only 35% of Democrats would dump a friend for supporting a vulgar bigoted narcissist (rather than 80% or 90%) is an indication of an exceptional degree of tolerance.
21
@Frank
Maybe two reasons, Frank.
First, Republicans won. Gee, they can afford to be magnanimous. Their opponent is beaten and they have the country by the throat.
Second, we never got to see exactly what Mrs. Clinton would have done in office, so you could quote whatever percentage you wanted—it's all speculation.
With Trump, on the other hand, we see exactly what and where the minority vote has gotten us, and, buddy, we don't like it. Why, I'd have to bend over backward to clean up Trump's language so that, if I repeated it here, it'd pass the NY Time's muster as not being profane. And then there's the little stuff, like the Republican Party's "tolerance" for abortion rights. Little stuff, like valuing truth and honor and good sportsmanship. Little stuff, like their tolerance for people of color. Little stuff, like climate change. Little stuff, like licking Putin's boots. In a million years, every Democrat, progressive, and liberal knows in his or her heart of hearts that Mrs. Clinton never would have done what your boy did with Putin.
It's not that we're less, how'd you put it, less "tolerant," it's just that we can figure out what these speculative polls really mean: nothing.
Play the victim card all you want, the fact is that, yet again, the country is ruled by a minority of the people.
Someday we'll get our act together and you'll see exactly how tolerant we really are.
1
@Frank, is there a degree of misogyny, racism, general ignorance of science and disregard for truth that we're supposed to tolerate? How much before we throw up our hands and give up on the conversation?
4
Americans have been at each others throats for over two hundred years. Nothing new. What is new is in this new century the amount of unfairness and injustice has been ratcheted up. As such two stolen Presidential elections by the Republicans. American Democracy and how we elect our presidents is supposed to be fairly straight forward and civil.
Not so today. Many people and especially foreigners
have ask for specific explanation on how it was that Trump who lost the popular vote by nearly 4 million votes, and in several states ( with no recount) supposedly won by less than 1 % of the vote still won. Go ahead NY Times explain the modern rational
and fairness with the US College Electoral system.
46
@SenDan
Not hard at all. You don't get elected president because you're more popular in one or two states
5
@AACNY
Which essentially means that trump was elected by acres of corn fields.
Identity politics, first used to galvanize the Left and maligned by the Right, has been thoroughly embraced by both now. Mixed together with an almost ubiquitous "victim" status, and we have a toxic brew. Stoking the furnace more is an almost-constant stream of vitriolic bile from cable news media, for profit operations, wearing the cloak of journalistic integrity. Whatever Putin and his thugs did was secondary; we were in trouble long before Russian "bots" manipulated Facebook and other social media users.
Proof positive of our trouble is that now President Trump was even a factor in a major party's primary process. In election cycles past, such a thoroughly unqualified oaf would not have been considered. Period. Healthy, functioning democracies do not elected the likes of Trump. However, whatever particular contagion Trump brings, he is merely a symptom of a cancer, a very malignant strain, that has put our republic on the brink. Any representative government needs enough range to accept political opponents' views as legitimate, the willingness to loose an election with some grace, and the agreement of a certain number of facts. I see little of any of those.
The question now is, can we find our way out of this mess. One can only hope at this point.
40
A well articulated post that seems to me spot on.
Saying this is a phenomenon on both sides is reminiscent of trump’s false equivalence about Charlottesville: one side is angry due to racist resentment, and the other is angry because they are against fascism. Needless to say, these are not morally equivalent positions.
499
@AJ
Perhaps you should look up the definition of Fascism.
Which side was expressing the 1st Amendment right to free speech (however much you disaggree with), and which side sought to supress said free speach?
That is the very heart of fascism.
There is no more ironic political movement/group than the Antifias.
5
@AJ
Thank you! The entire premise of the article is moronic.
2
@Jessei’s Girl
I think you'd be surprised at what does not fall under protected speech. Incitement to imminent lawless action, for example.
You also picked a particularly poor example to defend the free speech rights of White Supremacists, considering one of them proceeded to murder a woman on site.
Greed Over People has flushed facts and America down a toilet for decades in exchange for oligarchy and the world’s most impressive propaganda-fear-and-loathing industrial complex since the Third Reich filed for moral, intellectual and economic bankruptcy.
Many Republican voters would rather be Russians than Democrats.
They have lost their minds..... but it was years and years of carefully orchestrated fear, loathing and cultured stupidity that pushed them into the pockets of a Putin puppet and a Russian-Republican Duma dedicated full time to shredding their wages, their health care, their infrastructure, their democracy and their basic grip on reality.
The Republican Party built this treasonous Trump Toilet.
Decent Americans will not be voting for this Frankenstein Republican Party for several decades or until they stop blowing up the country with Birther Lies, Benghazi Buffoonery, Tax-Cut Derangement Syndrome and Up-Is-Downism.
Thanks for tearing the country to absolute political shreds, Grand Old Patriots.
Nice GOPeople.
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It’s become the Civil War of the modern era. I don’t say that lightly; I in fact fear that the clashes we’ve seen, some of which are physical assaults, will become larger and more violent. It almost seems it will have to get worse before it gets better.
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@Baba in general so far, those that have come to fight on "both" sides, deserve each other.
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I live in a community where less than 4% of the voters chose Trump. It is a relief to me that I rarely encounter anyone who supports him.
I have always had Republican friends, colleagues and relatives, but virtually all of those people in my life have renounced Trump.
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I'm glad to hear about your experience with people renouncing Trump, sadly mine is not the same here in Arizona (and with other relationships across the country). I'm not aware of a single trump supporter who's changed their position on him since the election. If anything, they seem to have doubled down on him. They perceive attacks on the president almost at a personal level, perhaps because acknowledging his severe flaws is akin to acknowledgment of their own fatally flawed (lack of) judgement.
I agree that i fall into the category of person who makes a character judgement of those who support trump. Usually, id say this is broad stroke assessment is unfair and prejudice....but what trump stands for ...intolerance, anger, selfishness, persecution, rampant greed, gaslighting, lying, and attacking the very pillars of our democracy.... makes things different.
Maybe I'm biased, but if after all we have seen with trump to this point in time, if you still support him, you are
At best, sold your soul and looked the other way during the chaos to advance extreme right wing policy (taxes, scoutus, etc)
At worst, as a disgusting a and morally bankrupt human being
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@Cousy
"It is a relief to me that I rarely encounter anyone who supports him."
Wow! So much for tolerance!
If I said, "I live in a community where less than 4% is ____ (pick your choice). It is a relief to me that I rarely encounter ...," you would probably deride me. Hypocrisy at its best.
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@Cousy -
It sounds like it's very comforting to live in an echo chamber.
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After the election, taking a cue from President Obama’s and HRC, I congratulated my conservative friends on their candidate’s surprise win. My Facebook post to that effect explained that, as bad as the election results were to me, it would be worse if they further divided us from one another. It was very hard to offer those congratulations.
Many of my conservative friends expressed gratitude, at times heartfelt, for my words. One wrote of a brother who no longer spoke to her. None of my liberal friends “liked” the post.
I no longer try to discuss politics with Trump supporters. It seems best to focus on the next election.
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"To a degree that is unique to this period and this president, disputes over politics have divided Americans’ homes, strained marriages, ruined friendships and invaded the workplace."
This is certainly true in my life. Over the past decade, I've stopped speaking to about 2 to 3 people over political positions, or more accurately, over how heated and nasty they get about president Obama.
I honestly don't know how you put the geni back in the bottle. I believe the virulence and nastiness of our political divide started with Newt Gingrich, as well as the proliferation of social media and talk shows that only inflame, not educate.
The irony of all this is, of course, how much this plays into the goals of the Russian masterminds who meddled in our election, throwing their weight in subtle ways for president Trump.
If Vladimir Putin sought to sow division in America, he succeeded beyond his wildest dreams.
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Trump easily offends the easily offended. Politics Has always been a blood sport and even more so now with constant news cycle and social media. If you can’t stand the heat, get outta the kitchen.
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@Just Joe....Trump offends anyone with even the slightest sense of decency. People who support Trump should best be careful lest they define themselves by their actions.
Really? What kitchen? Is there a chef? Anyone at all with a recipe, a plan, a strategy? Anything delicious going to result from this? I don’t get the metaphor.
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In order for two people to have a polite discourse, it's necessary for at least some agreement on reality. For example, I'm currently sitting at a table eating dinner as I write this. I similarly believe that it's not irrational of me to expect a reasonable person to agree that the table I'm sitting at is a table. However, if somebody earnestly insists that this table is in fact a hippopotamus, we can't have a polite discourse around anything related to the table/hippo.
This is where we are with trump.
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i share the same experience. if you so much as mention a real life fact (i.e. the sky is blue), trumpets lose all (and I mean ALL) logic and reasoning. I've come to the conclusion these types of people are only emotional thinkers not rational.
If anyone knows the best way to approach this problem please let me know
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@Andy
What you’re telling us is that you are “right,” and that Trump supporters are “wrong.” Of course, this is simply your opinion. We all know about opinions. In reality, in order for two people to have a polite discourse, you would have to be willing to look at objective facts as much as you may not like them and accept them (ie, there is no evidence of collusion with Russia after two years).
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@Andy
You mean like having 16 genders?
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The GOP has become the party of the ignorant. It’s now the clearest dividing line between the two major parties. It’s impossible to mount an informed, intelligent defence of Trump and his accomplices in Congress. Those who support them do so out of ignorance or bigotry (in truth a form of ignorance). The poor standards of education in much of America foster the sort of blind followers that comprise Trump’s base.
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“I love the poorly educated”, DJT during his presidential campaign.
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@Andrew Sounds exactly like a Russian trying to divide our country. Just described members of a major party in the US as ignorant. I glad this is a civil discourse.
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@Andrew How is labeling some 43 million Americans "ignorant" and "bigoted" not ignorant and bigoted? Have you met them all?
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